Hi folks,

I would like to know your oppinion about the balance of power between germany and britain.

Germany lost 2 World Wars in a row, britain won both.

Germany was destroyed, devided and internationally isolatet by the middle of last century.

Britan was , at the side of the US , the big winner.
When you look at the globe , in the news, and at the economy figures, britain, as well as germany, both are in a loosing position:

China already overtook Britain, Germany will be next, when it comes to GDP.
China and india are both huge countries with a huge population and an enormous potential for future growth.
Russia is just awekening and countries like turkey are heading towards the 100 mio border.
North Korea has the Nuclear bomb.

Britain and Germany fought so often against each other for world leadership.
But whats their perspective for the future?

Britain never "won" either war, just didnt lose.

So whats your point here? We are both NATO nations and EU members.

who cares. britain is certainly in the top 10.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-top-ten-countries/world-top-ten-powerful-countries-map.gif

Britian only won because it had A LOT of help.

As far as the present is concern, I do think Britian is stronger than Germany militarily, not overwhelmingly but certainly enough to win.

Britain and Germany fought so often against each other for world leadership.
Eh?? :?

I love it! LOL classic, 'Britian'.

"Britan" sounds like the name of an especially powerful kitchen cleaner.

>>Try "Britan" for baked in grease, stubborn stains and shifting soap scum.<<

Er what's that map about? It fails to include Russia in a list of 10 most powerful countries? In economic and Military terms Russia is a huge player because of it's huge natural resources and large, techically advance military. What do you think would happen in Europe if Russia decide to turn off the taps on all that imported Gas? That's power, both real and implied giving major leverage. Add to that a permanent securoty council place and it just proves these ratings are about as reliable as FIFA ratings are in International Football.

Re Britain v Germany i think in terms of purely Military terms then it's probably pretty even and difficult to judge. Britain has troops based over there to "defend Germany" - a legacy of the cold war. In terms of power projection abroard our presense in Germany allows them to committ less resources to homeland defense yet we still out weight them massively in power projection.

Basically in terms of land based warfare in a European theater then Germany kicks ass. In terms of projection of power abroad the Royal Navy and Airforce are more powerful and flexible giving Britain the edge.

ergo we'll call it a draw.

What kind of warped map rates Germany and France as the 2nd and 3rd most powerful nations on Earth? lmfao, did you make that in photoshop?

Britain didn't lose WWI and WWII because it's an island. I don't call hidding in the London's underground waiting for the Americans to save your ass being a 'victory'. Moreover, the whole British policy is based on what the Americans do to hide your decline on the international stage. Too easy to claim you won a war whereas the Americans did 90% of the job. I would say that Britain has much less power worldwide than Germany and even France because it cannot do anything else than unconditionnally agreeing with 99% of American foreign policy. I don't see Britain as a country that can influence the world. And don't talk about pop music because I would be LOL.

If we look at the military capability of Britain and Germany today it's fairly clear that Britain is more powerful - nuclear weapons, larger navy including aircraft carriers and a large amphibious capacity, etc.

However it doesn't matter as the two nations are allies now as part of the EU, WEU and NATO.

re: Ning - what a load of bollocks.

who cares. britain is certainly in the top 10.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-top-ten-countries/world-top-ten-powerful-countries-map.gif

Sweden v. China... now, despite what that maps says, I think I know the winner of such a war... :lol:

i think the UK is 3rd behind the US and russia as a military power and number two after the US when it comes to projecting its power.

I love it! LOL classic, 'Britian'.I see it didn't take long for you guys to make fun of my spelling.

B-R-I-T-A-I-N.

Are you happy now?

Britain didn't lose WWI and WWII because it's an island. I don't call hidding in the London's underground waiting for the Americans to save your ass being a 'victory'. Moreover, the whole British policy is based on what the Americans do to hide your decline on the international stage. Too easy to claim you won a war whereas the Americans did 90% of the job. I would say that Britain has much less power worldwide than Germany and even France because it cannot do anything else than unconditionnally agreeing with 99% of American foreign policy. I don't see Britain as a country that can influence the world. And don't talk about pop music because I would be LOL.

dickhead.

Britain didn't lose WWI and WWII because it's an island. I don't call hidding in the London's underground waiting for the Americans to save your ass being a 'victory'. Moreover, the whole British policy is based on what the Americans do to hide your decline on the international stage. Too easy to claim you won a war whereas the Americans did 90% of the job. I would say that Britain has much less power worldwide than Germany and even France because it cannot do anything else than unconditionnally agreeing with 99% of American foreign policy. I don't see Britain as a country that can influence the world. And don't talk about pop music because I would be LOL.

you have some balls posting that on here. Just wait till Monkey returns. And I dont know if I would even say the U.S. did 90% of the work. Dont forget about Russia.

When it came to WWII in Europe--it took all three. If Britain hadn't put up such a defense--the U.S. would not have had such a good location to launch an attack on France. Britain also fought its share of battles in WWII on land. If it wasnt for the U.S./Britain in WWII...we as in the West would have lost the war. Russia would simply had overrun Europe and the Brits would be looking at Communism from across the sea. Would Britain had been taken if it wasnt an island and connected to mainland Europe? I probally would say yes...although no one can say what would have happened in history. The British arent ones to be taken over!

Ning's "hiding in the London underground" hogwash is an insult to all those who died defending this country from Hitler. He should be fucking ashamed of himself.

^ Not to mention all those millions of British soldiers who died defending and liberating his country (France - hardly the bravest country in WWII.... ;) ) through two world wars. It was Britain that gained air superiority over Germany's Luftwaffe during and after the Battle of Britain. It was Britain that defeated the German navy in the Battle of the Atlantic. It was Britain that won the first major land victory of the western allies against the Germans at El Alamein. British and Commonwealth forces outnumbered the Americans and took three of the five D-Day beaches (Juno, Gold, and Sword - the Americans took Utah and Omaha) and even the Americans landed under air cover from the RAF, naval bombardment from the Royal Navy, and on ships launched from the massive British-built Mulberry floating harbours.

It was inevitable this thread would go this way....

But anyhow;

Land forces- Germany far superior to Uk

Naval Forces- UK wins but Germany has better conventional submarine force

Air Forces- UK has better force projection capability, Germany has better SEAD capability

As we are all in NATO, seems pointless to have a "who would win" discussion

http://dletouzey.free.fr/18mars/birkenau.jpg

End this pointless discussion

thats to easy, not to say to dum´b

furthermore ist impious against the victims of auschwitz to use them in every discussion concerning germany, no matter what the real topic is

Btw, when you look at the initial question, it was about the future of both countries, the past just gives the background.

I mean, GB always made a lot of efforts to push their balance of power policy on the coninent.
Now that policy doesnt work for countries like india or china, or even the now agian risining russia.

Personaly, I would prefer a British Superpower over a Chinese one.
the irony can be found in the fact, that, focussing on the euroepean map, no european, western country has a superpower status any more, nor does it have the chance to get it anytime in the future, while countires like China, India, maybe even Brasil do have the potential.

dickhead.

Ning's "hiding in the London underground" hogwash is an insult to all those who died defending this country from Hitler.

Truth hurts, doesn't it ?


Not to mention all those millions of British soldiers who died defending and liberating his country through two world wars.
British should be happy that France has always happened to be between their country and their ennemies. Talk about ungratefulness...


(France - hardly the bravest country in WWII.... )
Yeah... because UK is THE country when it comes to bravery. LOL. The only things that we associate with UK about WWII are Dunkirk and Mers-el-Kébir.
Only british can transform blatant backstabbings of an ally in glorious and brave victories.



I love how this forum is full of threads and debates about the so-called power of UK and its past "grandeur". But, after all in this case, it's on their own subforum. So I guess it's fair.

The bitter Frenchmen on this thread should fuck off and take their bs elsewhere. Disgusting.

I like France =/ Whats wrong with it...

The French. :)

http://fcit.usf.edu/Holocaust/gifsk/kdran20.JPG

End this nonsense

Isaac - no one is saying that a WW2 scenario is going to happen again (in fact, quite the opposite). Britain and Germany have therefore ended this "nonsense". If you're against the discussion over what happened during WW2 then that's a bit silly too, considering that the actions of the Allies did end this "nonsense".

I really didnt know there was such bitterness and ignorance left behind from the WW2. You people make me sick.

You honestly expect women and children to dance in the street begging for a bomb to be dropped on their heads so we can prove how brave and valiant we were?

Britain was the last european nation left from the clutches of the Axis forces, yes we are an Island, and Germany had to deal with France first, but if we lost the Battle of Britain, the Germans would of invaded. We didn't, we were vastly outnumbered, and German planes had better range. We also sacrificied large numbers of men to liberate france, and the fact that we get it shove back in our face by ignorant dickheads is disgusting.

British should be happy that France has always happened to be between their country and their ennemies. Talk about ungratefulness...

we should be grateful to france that it is where it is? you seem to be implying that you needn't be where you are and that you're doing us a favour by staying.

:laugh:

The only things that we associate with UK about WWII are Dunkirk and Mers-el-Kébir.
Only british can transform blatant backstabbings of an ally in glorious and brave victories.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Dunirk_arrival_in_england.jpg
evacuated french troops disembarking in england.

But, after all in this case, it's on their own subforum. So I guess it's fair.

quite so, dear chap. now piss orf.

How do you wish us to address your question as to who is the more powerful? Looking at it in a "who would win if they both went to war against each other?" or who, at the current standing, would be able to take out another country (geographic issues aside)?

I think that to discuss a UK v Germany scenario is as futile.

Overall, to compare, you'd have to look at the use of nuclear weapons (invasion v annhilation), the ability to project military force, location of overseas bases, weapons/technology available, quality of delivery systems, etc.

Added to this the general public acceptance of war, which is far greater in the UK than in Germany. Germany going to war is, post WW2, seldom tolerated by the German public.

Germany does have a larger army, but the bulk of this are 18yr olds doing their years' national service, whereas the UK's is a full time professional service.

First of all that map showing "the most powerful countries on earth" is soooo wrong. Sweden?? Norway?? Comon!

Secondly, Britain might be more powerful than Germany today because the Brits spend more on their military than the Germans. In a state of war I think Germany is more powerful. Germany has always surprised the world when it comes to tactics, firepower and inventivness. Germany was a lot stronger than Britain in WW2, they beat France in four weeks and would it not had been for the English channel Briain would have fallen even quicker.

Germany has always been superior when it comes to military power. It took four of the world´s most powerful countries to beat Germany and still it was a close call. One of the four countries got coquered - the other three survived thanks to their climate or geographic locations. I´ve always found it amusing when Brits (or Americans) boast about them beating Germany, they all forget that they weren´t alone - they had the whole world on their side!

Furthermore I think there is a great deal of jealousy of Germany elsewhere in the western world. The Germans did build up a living standards superior to the one of Britain only some 20 years after the war.

Truth hurts, doesn't it ?



British should be happy that France has always happened to be between their country and their ennemies. Talk about ungratefulness...



Yeah... because UK is THE country when it comes to bravery. LOL. The only things that we associate with UK about WWII are Dunkirk and Mers-el-Kébir.
Only british can transform blatant backstabbings of an ally in glorious and brave victories.



I love how this forum is full of threads and debates about the so-called power of UK and its past "grandeur". But, after all in this case, it's on their own subforum. So I guess it's fair.

Simply awful, the attitudes towards World War Two in this thread are absolutely disgusting. It's strange that we're talking about Britain v Germany when the French are causing all the problems in this thread. I think it's quite blatant bitterness.

Yeah... because UK is THE country when it comes to bravery. LOL. The only things that we associate with UK about WWII are Dunkirk and Mers-el-Kébir.
Only british can transform blatant backstabbings of an ally in glorious and brave victories.


The country that stood alone in Europe against a powerful Nazi enemy after its biggest ally had meekly surrendered. German rearmament had begun several years before Britain rearmed and conscription was only re-introduced in May 1939 in Britain. I think it shows remarkable bravery from both the general populace and the armed forces that they were able to withstand the Nazis after being so behind in terms of arms. Winning the Battle of Britain was definitely a major turning point in the war, as Britain staved off the threat of German invasion. The British were prepared to suffer air raids on their historic capital, considering the beauty of its buildings to be secondary to the overall struggle of defeating Nazi tyranny.

First of all that map showing "the most powerful countries on earth" is soooo wrong. Sweden?? Norway?? Comon!


Lol. Isn't Sweden's 2nd biggest export ABBA (after Volvo's) :-P

The country that stood alone in Europe against a powerful Nazi enemy after its biggest ally had meekly surrendered. German rearmament had begun several years before Britain rearmed and conscription was only re-introduced in May 1939 in Britain. I think it shows remarkable bravery from both the general populace and the armed forces that they were able to withstand the Nazis after being so behind in terms of arms. Winning the Battle of Britain was definitely a major turning point in the war, as Britain staved off the threat of German invasion. The British were prepared to suffer air raids on their historic capital, considering the beauty of its buildings to be secondary to the overall struggle of defeating Nazi tyranny.


Yeah... the British were so braaaaave.... and the French are cowards....
You are The Men.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:


Congratulations guy, your ancestors happened to live on the right side of the Channel, the side of bravery.
You must be proud : keep on wanking, you can.

Yeah... the British were so braaaaave.... and the French are cowards....
You are The Men.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:


Congratulations guy, your ancestors happened to live on the right side of the Channel, the side of bravery.
You must be proud : keep on wanking, you can.
Your participation in this thread is despicable.

And, I could go into the fact that that at least the British did not bend over to Hitler, but then again, I am not going to be as infantile as you and launch into a bitter and childish tirade a la "all the French do is surrender"

:lock:

and I get banned for posting facts about state taxes in Wisconsin..sheesh. This is country vs. country.

I think it is wrong to look at this in purely militarial terms. The fact that the diagram portrayed Sweden being more powerful than China - with the largest army in terms of manpower in the world - suggests there is more to power than a military, particuarly in the modern world. We should be looking at economy, the role in NATO, the UN (with the UK's security council place being important here), even cultural dominance. It is a vague question and perhaps one wrong for the military forum.

I would find it difficult being drawn into an overall conclusion on this issue but in recent years I can see Blair's Britain having greater influence across the world than Germany. Whether this equates with power is debatable.

And, I could go into the fact that that at least the British did not bend over to Hitler
I know, they are so braaaave....:okay:


I am not going to be as infantile as you and launch into a bitter and childish tirade a la "all the French do is surrender"

You can (and actually you just did). Monkey and some of his fellow citizens have already started the bashing fest.

Oh boy. I think you all should thank Russian people for what they done in WWI and WWII

If not Russia in the first war, England would lost all its power in the world and colonies to Germans. Russia gave up land as Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, half of Belorussia, Bessarabia and Moldova and half of Ukraine to take it back when they signed the Ribbentrop-Molotov act. It was done to appease the German appetite and to save France and England.

IN WWII Russia was fighting along battle, when everyone was sitting on the fence. British were fighting 12 SS Hitler Yugend panzer division, ost-brigades (Russians, Kalmyk, and Cossacks) during the d-day and the rest of the time were collecting POW together with Americans. French resistance was all composed from Russian POW, Ukrainian former SS division and Kuban SS Cossacks. They actually liberated France, liberating French cities ahead of slow cowardly moving Brits, Americans and Canadians.

Canadians did absolutely nothing during the war, liberating Holland for crying out loud. The land, which is size of the London city.

A few words about Americans.

It is very appreciated by Russians their land-lease contribution, but waiting until when 30 million Russians, 6 million Jews, one million Gypsies, almost two million Serbians, communists, handicapped, mentally sick, crippled, kids, gays were holocausted, is unacceptable.

And when going went tough, they almost lost it against crippled east front veterans, landing on Omaha beach. That German division was so poorly equipped, do not laugh, it was using bikes for their own transportation.
Russia was fighting the war. The rest of you westerners were jerking off.

...and you guys think a united EU is gonna work?

EL OH EL! :crazy:

Oh boy. I think you all should thank Russian people for what they done in WWI and WWII

If not Russia in the first war, England would lost all its power in the world and colonies to Germans. Russia gave up land as Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, half of Belorussia, Bessarabia and Moldova and half of Ukraine to take it back when they signed the Ribbentrop-Molotov act. It was done to appease the German appetite and to save France and England.

IN WWII Russia was fighting along battle, when everyone was sitting on the fence. British were fighting 12 SS Hitler Yugend panzer division, ost-brigades (Russians, Kalmyk, and Cossacks) during the d-day and the rest of the time were collecting POW together with Americans. French resistance was all composed from Russian POW, Ukrainian former SS division and Kuban SS Cossacks. They actually liberated France, liberating French cities ahead of slow cowardly moving Brits, Americans and Canadians.

Canadians did absolutely nothing during the war, liberating Holland for crying out loud. The land, which is size of the London city.

A few words about Americans.

It is very appreciated by Russians their land-lease contribution, but waiting until when 30 million Russians, 6 million Jews, one million Gypsies, almost two million Serbians, communists, handicapped, mentally sick, crippled, kids, gays were holocausted, is unacceptable.

And when going went tough, they almost lost it against crippled east front veterans, landing on Omaha beach. That German division was so poorly equipped, do not laugh, it was using bikes for their own transportation.
Russia was fighting the war. The rest of you westerners were jerking off.

I think people would give more credit to Russia for its role in the war if Stalin hadn't been in power. It's hard to praise a nation ruled by a mass murderer for its role in the war. Remember Stalin actually killed a lot more people than Hitler did.

Another tool pissing all over those who died for the freedom of others, passing their efforts off as "cowardly". The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact was encouraged by greed and had nothing to do with doing Britain a favour.

I bet this guy thinks Stalin was a hero. :|

Truth hurts, doesn't it ?
The truth? The truth is that no matter what you think, people DIED fighting to save this country (as well as yours). If you think it's okay to belittle their sacrifice, why don't you and Ning do something similar yourselves? Go to Iraq or Darfur and don't come back.

...and you guys think a united EU is gonna work?

EL OH EL! :crazy:

:lol:

Another tool pissing all over those who died for the freedom of others, passing their efforts off as "cowardly". The Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact was encouraged by greed and had nothing to do with doing Britain a favour.

I bet this guy thinks Stalin was a hero. :|

No, actually i am very sore how Yanks and Brits treated Kuban Cossacks, during operation Keelhaul. You betrayed my people. You helped Stalinist regime and killed the only people, who were against it. http://worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/Keelhaul.shtml

Shame on you.

I think Stalin is the worst human being ever born on this planet and Hitler included. In Kuban region, almost two millon people died during golodomor. He destroyed our way of life and wiped out our language.

BTW Shkuro is not Ukranian. Hi is Kuban cossack. And he is national hero of Kuban. As Bendera in Ukraine There are no Ukranian cossacks. What an idiot!!!

“General Shkuro and his Ukranian Cossack troops had long been known to be anti-Bolsheviks. Gen Shkuro, himself, had emigrated after World War I and had never been a Soviet citizen. He felt he was safe from repatriation. The Cossacks had fought for Germany and surrendered to British troops. They demanded political asylum for which they easily qualified. The British confiscated all their Western currency and held them in detention. They were told on May 28 that all officers and enlisted men were to attend a conference with higher British authorities, and would be transported by truck. This seemed implausible. Why transport everyone in trucks when the British could come to them? When the Cossacks started to feel nervous about the destination, an English Lieutenant said, ‘I assure you on my word of honor as a British officer that you are just going to a conference.’ Another British officer gave the same assurance. The convoy was guarded, which did nothing to alleviate the Cossack’s anxiety. A few jumped from the trucks and escaped into the forest. They were the smart ones. Those that trusted the British ended up at a prisoner of war camp in Spittal, Austria (in the Russian sector of control). A British officer then informed them that, ‘in accordance with an agreement concluded between the military authorities of the United Kingdom and the Soviet Union, all officers will be put at the disposal of Soviet military authorities.’ A Cossack General asked the officer when the agreement was signed. He replied, ‘On May 23 of this year (1945).’” According to Epstein, one Cossack officer remarked, “The NKVD or the Gestapo would have slain us with truncheons, the British did it with their word of honor.” There were multiple suicides that night in the camp, and all of the others had to be subdued by clubs and rifle butts as none would leave the camp voluntarily.

"Shame on" who? Me? Fuck off. I've done nothing wrong. I don't blindly defend the British government, past or present. It is responsible for a lot of bad things, but don't try to make me feel ashamed of them. It's not happening.

For the record, the British government never liked Stalin at all. The UK and USSR were only allies because of a common enemy (Nazi Germany). In fact, British sympathy towards Hitler during the 1930s was partly due to his hatred of communism.

I'm glad you hate Stalin though.

What, Germany don't have nukes.

The Germans did build up a living standards superior to the one of Britain only some 20 years after the war.


If you had any idea atall, you'd know America, Britain, Russia even France (some more than others) played a large part in it's sharpish revival.

I know, they are so braaaave....

Your avatars an absolute piss take surely!

You mock the deaths of millions in the world wars IN aid of the very freedoms you and I live today, then have the balls !audacity! to say you care about the people who died in those towers 9/11? I dont understand why people like you aren't banned. Freedom of speech an all that, but its a step lower than low and shouldnt be present in our suposably civilized society! I tell you what, if I had relatives involved in 9/11 an I read your distastefull, bordering on evil comments, I'd want to hurt you. You dont have the right in my eye's to even associate yourself with the tragedy. You sound as though you have no respect for freedom, and as much as I'd like to think your posts wreak of sensationalistic ignorance, it's hard to comprehend this on such a sensitive subject.

Go live in Iraq, im sure you'd fit in.

What, Germany don't have nukes.

who needs nukes when you have:

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/hasselhoff-42691.jpg

Is that twat German? I always held him to be a Californian with sunbaken brains.