Really like the new art work at Kangaroo Point. I especially like how you can walk into it like a great big hollowed out tree (like the strangler fig you can walk into up at O'Reilly's):

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1118/20120212104838.jpg

What are your thoughts on this idea to extened Southbank?

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/bligh-unveils-plans-for-south-bank-expansion-20120212-1sz8v.html

The Aboriginal Cultural Museum makes sense for South Brisbane, but I'd like to spread the rest of the idea out across the inner city.

Also, does anyone else get a hint of electioneering with this announcement?

^^ Definitely electioneering, and it's annoying because a project this important – the biggest urban renewal in the area since "South Bank 1" – should really be placed above party politics. There's more conversation going on about it in this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1487522)

Edit: A bit of news for coffee fans looking for a fix up on/around George Street, we have another newcomer to the coffee scene in Brisbane. Bean Coffee has opened up down the old carriage way that runs between Irish Murphys and the neighbouring Flight Centre. They're sharing space with The Bunker Boutique (http://www.thebunkerboutique.com/pages/about), so if you've ever bean in to check them out, you'll know where to go. The coffee is Campos – being a tea drinker it means nothing to me, but for any coffee junkies it probably does.

^^ Definitely electioneering, and it's annoying because a project this important – the biggest urban renewal in the area since "South Bank 1" – should really be placed above party politics. There's more conversation going on about it in this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1487522)

Having said that, what is stopping the LNP from agreeing with it and vowing to do something similar?? It is clear that its a good idea. If they were smart they would say yes to it also.

Bean Coffee has opened up down the old carriage way that runs between Irish Murphys and the neighbouring Flight Centre. They're sharing space with

I popped in this morning for a coffee. I thought it might have been a separate coffee shop next to bunker boutique, rather than them selling coffee from within the same space.

The coffee's great (campos coffee) and it's not too expensive. It's definitely more of a "take away" place, though. There is some seating, though it's extremely limited and not really set up to "chill and relax" (compared to say, Brew).

^^ I think that they're definitely catering for a different crowd than Brew (although Brew also offer takeaway). That said, it took a while for Brew to evolve into what it is now. If Bean is successful, they might change to become more like Brew, with time. If nothing else, it draws people in to see Bunker, which is still a bit hidden, despite the signage.

Having said that, what is stopping the LNP from agreeing with it and vowing to do something similar?? It is clear that its a good idea. If they were smart they would say yes to it also.

They can't agree to it if it's being proposed as an election promise by their opponents, much less as it's an early, completely unfunded proposal that has been hobbled together in 6 months to be used as a political stunt, which effectively it has. We got a 5 minutes speech and some sketches...no solid master plan, no solid details of any of what was proposed...it's all speech no substance – not enough info there that the LNP could agree with.

The LNP should just say something like, in theory we agree with this plan, and if we win government we will work towards it.

Agree. IMO it needs to be masterplanned as a block and not as individual sites.

It'll be interesting to see what happens over the next 12 months.

The LNP should just say something like, in theory we agree with this plan, and if we win government we will work towards it.

Exactly.

It's been, what, 48hrs max??? Do you seriously want policy decisions made on a whim and a glib flick of the wrist?

That would be outrageous.

It hasn't stopped policy being made on the run before. But no-one said they would like to hear a statement from the LNP about it "today" and I don't believe its a big enough election promise to warrant a quick issue statement to head-off positive media. But like Aussie Bhoy said, if LNP agree, I could imagine they could just issue a statement like they "agree with the sentiment" or "principle" and leave it at that, no full commitment.

In other news, we have a rather large development proposed for Wickham St in the Valley, which is also a test for the Demolition Controlled Precinct status.

The site in question is this one, including the Godfreys building, but more importantly the Lexus dealership building. They form two in a series of four neighbouring pre-1946 warehouses (including the two on the other side of Constance St, one of which has a local heritage listing on it.) With the exception of the Godfrey's store, which I couldn't care less about, the other three are all fairly ornate, two story buildings which I would consider fairly important to that section of the streetscape.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/3701/screenshot20120214at321.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/screenshot20120214at321.png/)

This is what is being proposed for the site. It's a rather nice Buchan Group design (who, ironically, have their Brisbane office in one of these three warehouses I mentioned, the one directly across Constance St). I have nothing against the project, and like a few aspects of it like the included cross block links, with the sole exception of the demolition of the Lexus Dealership, which I think should be facaded and retained. The reason for removing it is to allow for a 6 metre footpath area and to create a subtropical boulevard along Wickham St...even though it wouldn't be able to continue much further up because of the listed warehouse, and the listed Wickham Hotel.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/425/358wickham1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/358wickham1.jpg/)

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7001/358wickham2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/31/358wickham2.jpg/)

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/5937/358wickham3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/358wickham3.jpg/)

I think the development would still work with the Wickham St facade and the ornate little corner section to Constance St saved. Hopefully council will agree!

I agree with you Nathan to an extent. I believe it should be protected, however I am always nervous about facadism.

The footpath widening should probably be mostly taken from the other side of the road where a good streetscape doesn't currently exist.

It'll be an interesting one to watch.



Edit: From the Development Application -

It is considered, however, that the inclusion of Lot 1 within the DCP is inconsistent with the intent of the recently adopted FVNP. Retaining the building façade would limit the potential yield of the site and prevent the widening of Wickham Street to achieve a 6m footpath width. It is understood through prelodgement meetings with Council that the FVNP overrides the requirements of the Planning Scheme and that the demolition of the building is therefore considered appropriate.




It looks like it is coming down.

^^ So much for the whole reason for having a DCP in place... And the logic doesn't really make sense really because their 6 m footpath width will be booked ended by the listed Wickham Hotel and white "Living Edge" warehouse at one end, and the listed Valley Pool a few blocks up. The development itself isn't a bad looking one, I think we will be getting a quality addition to that central/northern end of the Valley, but losing a bit of the Valley's traditional character because of it.

As an aside, I think facadism can work when done well. Myer Centre type facadism doesn't work because it's a flat wall with no depth and nothing to illustrate the dimensions of the former building. However, if a few meters of the building's depth can be retained to allow for an appreciation of some of it's interior form, and if the modern design can pay homage to the building original dimensions in an interpretative fashion, it can be an option in cases like this where it's the facade that is the important part.

There's also a redevelopment of an unlisted character building proposed for Margaret Street as well which came up last week, the former O'Reilly's Bonded Stores complex, circa 1912-1913:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4024/1006332.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/1006332.jpg/)

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4623/1006295.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/1006295.jpg/)

Little bit sad about this, I'm a fan of the larger building on the right. I also actually researched the history of Captain O'Reilly and his Bonded Stores. He was a big name in the steamship industry around the 1860-80s. More annoying is what is replacing it. Apparently there will be a large scale redevelopment of the site in the future, until then we get this zinc-panelled waste of space! Seriously, this is a modern development in the Brisbane CBD?!? Even if it's temporary, that's rather pathetic IMO!

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1250/105margaretst1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/528/105margaretst1.jpg/)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2069/105margaretst2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/105margaretst2.jpg/)

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/9666/105margaretst3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/105margaretst3.jpg/)

Its depressing how all our nice buildings are being demolished. I hate how a DPC can be knocked down or worked around. Though being in a planning job I'm learning that its never black and white. What i think is a simple DA for a house turns into a 3 hour mission talking to 50 different people due to overlays etc.

I absolutely hate how the man made rise cuts off that beautiful building in the valley as well.

^^ It is a bit annoying how the rise cuts off the old Defiance Flour Mill building.

That said, this new development addresses that laneway that runs between the site and the old mill considerably well, even providing some activation to it through a cross block link and retail tenancy, which will be good, and has a nice green wall proposed. The DA for it also mentions an apparent QR plan to, at some point, cover over the section of train line between FV Station and Constance St, and building a new "plaza entrance" to the station off Constance St roughly opposite the mill.

If only it was going to retain that facade...the only bad thing about the development.

It was sad to hear that a baby was thrown off the Story Bridge yesterday and that his father then lept off the bridge to his death.

The Brisbane Times (21/2/2012): http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/story-bridge-tragedy-to-haunt-many-20120220-1tjp6.html

It was sad to hear that a baby was thrown off the Story Bridge yesterday and that his father then lept off the bridge to his death.

I have a 2 year old boy aswell, and I just don't understand it, it this age you have to be extra vigilant, and sadly it looks like the why will never be answered. For someone who would have the boys 100% trust in, I just don't get it - I mean to even plan something like this....:ohno:

On a lighter note, I love pics of plants growing out of old buildings...

^^ There's plenty of plants growing on buildings to see on these Margaret Street buildings, it's worth taking 15mins to have a look while they're still there. The neighbouring 'Hotpoint House' has one side completely covered in vines (below), as does the building in the rear yard of the Watson Brothers Building, and the free stores has a little garden growing around the back. I did a pictorial of the site a little while ago which can be seen here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1435587).

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4154/1006269.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/714/1006269.jpg/)

I have a 2 year old boy aswell, and I just don't understand it, it this age you have to be extra vigilant, and sadly it looks like the why will never be answered. For someone who would have the boys 100% trust in, I just don't get it - I mean to even plan something like this....:ohno:

And this happened just months after a woman killed her child at home, parked her car on the bridge and lept off.

It's so disturbing reading stories like this. Obviously in both instances they had massive mental/emotional issues, but it disgusts me that anyone could hurt/kill an innocent baby who has no idea what is going on. Any call to modify the bridge is pointless, because people like this will always find a way around.

Uggh, I hate even thinking about this.

Disturbing is right and quite distressing even though I'm not personally involved. Like a lot of things in life, I just do not understand it.

how horrible, why bring the chill into it

yeah it makes me feel sick in the stomach when i think about it - probably because i have 2 kids of my own – so i consciously put it out of mind.

On a lighter note.

BCC is looking for town planners. If your interested http://employment.brisbane.qld.gov.au/jobDetails.asp?sJobIDs=788815&lLocationID=&lWorkTypeID=&lBrandID=&lCategoryID=&stp=AW&sLanguage=en

Teacher from my old school
Terrible tragedy :ohno:

On a lighter note.

BCC is looking for town planners. If your interested http://employment.brisbane.qld.gov.au/jobDetails.asp?sJobIDs=788815&lLocationID=&lWorkTypeID=&lBrandID=&lCategoryID=&stp=AW&sLanguage=en

didn't they just lay a heap of them off?

Any call to modify the bridge is pointless, because people like this will always find a way around.

Uggh, I hate even thinking about this.

I still think the bridge needs proper security fencing. Also, this is the 2nd suicide off this bridge in a few months... I often wonder if fencing was there, the person might turn around and *maybe* just maybe reconsider his/her life on the journey home??

Security fencing is quite good on the Sydney Harbour bridge, Gateway etc. I think it would help and wouldn't cost the world either.

If people keep hearing of suicides off the Story Bridge, it puts ideas in people's moronic minds.

Seriously...you think extra fencing will work?? And what next, higher fences around KP cliffs, higher fences around the cliffs at New Farm?? Like I said, at the end of the day, if people really want to throw themselves off something, a bit of fence isn't going to stop them.

^^ Sadly that's true...while they could put better fencing around the Story Bridge, you can't put a fence around everything and even if we could, you'd have people throw themselves in front of trains or off/out of buildings or something instead.

^^ Sadly that's true...while they could put better fencing around the Story Bridge, you can't put a fence around everything and even if we could, you'd have people throw themselves in front of trains or off/out of buildings or something instead.

They should paint the bridge blue, it discourages suicide.


EDIT: I'm joking ... really they should not publicise stuff like this at all, gives people ideas.

Normally it would never even get a mention in the paper or other media, but because it involves a child and potentially a murder case, it has got a crapload of coverage.

The two recent suicides (the woman who killed her kid and this chap) were both calculated, planned and deliberate. They would have done something awful regardless.

I do not believe they were ultimately preventable by a simple fence. I also think the calls for fencing and the over zealous media coverage have an unfortunate and less-apparent side effect of placing the blame for things like this on council, when it is clearly NOT their fault by any stretch of the imagination.

Completely agree Marty.

It's a really interesting topic the idea of suicide barriers.

I work with a mental health not-for-profit and the next campaign we're working on is based on the research around whether the Golden Gate bridge should have a suicide barrier.

The study traced the lives of those who had attempted suicide off the bridge, though were restrained. 30 years later, 90% were either still alive or had passed away from natural causes. Although 10% eventually found another form of suicide, this consistently occurred only within the first six months of the original attempt.

Depression and suicide can be lifelong battles, though this study plainly makes the case that, for many, depression and suicidal tendencies can simply be temporary hurdles.

Now, the case for a barrier is still blurry - yes, we know that if we can restrain people in the moment that they stand a great chance of living long lives, though what's to stop them finding another method in that moment?

If anyone's interested in the study, the report can be found here:

http://www.seattlefriends.org/files/seiden_study.pdf

Let's not forget this guy is still a total disgusting c#$t for what he did to the child.

the story bridge runs between the cliffs at new farm and the cliffs at kangaroo point. if someone really wants to find an elevated place then they won't have to go far. safety fences are a knee jerk reaction and completely pointless.

This is a terrible thing to happen. But I'm against putting any barriers on the Story Bridge. I like the great views you get as you walk across it now. And as said this guy would have jumped from a cliff, or in front of a train, etc. He knew what he was doing.

Let's not forget this guy is still a total disgusting c#$t for what he did to the child.

I agree with that. A life was extinguished for no reason at all, and I'm referring to the baby.

Suicide prevention is the only way you can prevent people from killing themselves. If they are that desparate, they will go to whatever lengths to do it.

^^The action was totally disgusting. None of us can imagine what mental state he was in when he did this.

At first I thought the same thing (blame hime) then, as a father myself, I thought - what got into you, to make you commit such an unspeakably dreadful crime?

I don't know what the answer is, but part of me pities the man - the way that his life came to this.

It is so so sad for everyone concerned and makes everyone sick in the stomach thinking about it.

My assumption, however horrible it is, is that he didn't want his son growing up with the pain of having his father commit suicide. He may have seen kids that have been affected by it or he may be worried about his wife (that just split up from him) caring for his son.

There are a multitude of reasons, none made with a sane mind.



Very sad for all involved.

I agree with that. A life was extinguished for no reason at all, and I'm referring to the baby.

Suicide prevention is the only way you can prevent people from killing themselves. If they are that desparate, they will go to whatever lengths to do it.

I am really sure the families would love reading such comments at this time. Anger is one thing but Chris would you say it to the family's face? Inappropriate really. Fabian agree. Depression is serious and takes work to manage but we live in a get over it harden up society and that does not work. Does not matter if it was a child or old person or animal to take someone with you is selfish but it is not helpful at this time to heap scorn on grieving people. As for barriers won't work as Fabian says you cannot stop someone.

Edit: Could you clarify whom you are addressing above? I took it that the post was directed at Fabian because you quoted him, but realise maybe it's BrizzyChris.

Either way, you can't run around facts. Killing a kid is disgusting. I will say it through a megaphone if you like.

Obiously if I spoke to the family, I would tell them how sorry I am... The implication being both for the deaths and the gross crime.

Suicide is an illness and it is preventable. I blame the wife :lol: theyre usually the cause of most of mens struggles ha

IM JOKING being sarcastic.

i wouldnt want to see ther bridge changed with ugly sydney harbour bridge prison enclosure footpath barriers. ewwwwww

leave it pretty and let the suiciders do their thing. they will just go somewhere else anyway and we will just be left with an ugly bridge.

If the Golden Gate is the world's number 1 suicide spot, then surely the Sydney Harbour Bridge would be Australia's number 1 spot (IF the barriers weren't there).

Obviously there's no telling how many lives it has saved, however I do believe it would have made an impact, as suicidal thoughts can be temporary.

Where do they go instead? The Gap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gap_(Sydney)), a cliff reported to see 50 suicides annually... So while they mightn't jump off the Harbour Bridge, they just go some where else.

The Gap is top of the tops, I'd say.

I am really sure the families would love reading such comments at this time. Anger is one thing but Chris would you say it to the family's face? Inappropriate really. Fabian agree. Depression is serious and takes work to manage but we live in a get over it harden up society and that does not work. Does not matter if it was a child or old person or animal to take someone with you is selfish but it is not helpful at this time to heap scorn on grieving people. As for barriers won't work as Fabian says you cannot stop someone.

I take it you meant to quote me and not Fabian?

Let me first say, I can't even imagine to begin what pain the families involved are going through, particularly the mum, and I have total sympathy for their loss.

But in regards to your question, while there would actually be no need for me to say it to the family's face (after all, they are not the one's responsible for his actions), if they asked me what I thought, goddamn right I would tell them what I think. Mate, there are no two ways about it, this guy is a child murderer, no matter what spin people put on his attributes before the incident.

If he didn't jump himself, do you think people would still be saying "I can't believe he killed his son! But still, he's a great guy, fantastic teacher, and an awesome footy ref...top bloke!" Yeah...no.

If he didn't jump himself, do you think people would still be saying "I can't believe he killed his son! But still, he's a great guy, fantastic teacher, and an awesome footy ref...top bloke!" Yeah...no.

Absolutely spot on.

However, the way I look at it, if he didn't jump, he wouldn't have murdered his son.

The same mental issues that drove him to jump, also drove hime to believe he was doing the best thing for his son. I think he saw that he was more devoted to his son than the rest of his family.



Regardless it is a truely awful thing to happen and if we can find a way to catch it before suicides even occur, it would be the best outcome.

This guy clearly had a severe traumatic break .. what kind of state do you have to get to to be able to throw your son of a bridge .. he must have completely snapped. Not trying to defend him .. just stunned at how far people go when they really do snap .. makes you wonder just how bad things had gotten between him and his wife to cause this. A tragic tragic end none the less.

Brisbane City Council has no plans to erect barriers.

The Courier Mail (21/2/2012): http://www.news.com.au/national/council-snubbed-experts-call-for-safety-barriers/story-e6frfkvr-1226276403746

I'm happy for the telephones to be placed on the bridge. Even better, allow them to also be used in the event of accidents and breakdowns by motorists on the bridge.

The Project on channel 10 just did a story about barriers on our bridges and the overwhelming verdict is that if you remove the means to suicide, people will actually rethink their decision.

Its a no brainer, lifeline even recommends that barriers are placed on bridges and admit that having phones there wouldn't do anything.

Since barriers were placed on the Westgate bridge, suicides dropped to 0 (and there was one suicide every 3 weeks on that bridge).

Obviously some people would have found other ways but the majority actually don't go through with it.

The BCC needs to get proper advice from institutions like lifeline and other professionals.

Lol of course it stops it on the bridge, but they'll go elsewhere..and once they know it's impossible to jump from the Story Bridge, they won't even bother going there to 'rethink their decision'. Believe me, when you want to kill yourself, you'll find a way to do it. As has been said, if you can't jump off the Story Bridge, you'll jump off Kangaroo Point Cliffs, etc... if you can't do that, you'll jump in front of a bus/train, etc.

Well thats not what experts have said. Barriers do help save lives because not everyone goes elsewhere.

If it stops even one person - it's worth it. You can't put a cost on a human life.

People will think "oh it's too hard by the bridge, I'll do it by train" and that's a bigger problem. There will always be suicides.

The Project on channel 10 just did a story about barriers on our bridges and the overwhelming verdict is that if you remove the means to suicide, people will actually rethink their decision.

it cost $20m to erect the barriers on the west gate bridge. it may have had a big impact on the number of suicides from the west gate bridge, but it has had no noticeable impact on the number of suicides in melbourne or victoria - people have just found other methods. if you really care about suicide then perhaps you should campaign for more funding for suicide prevention. bridge fencing is just suicide relocation.

I'll add to that that yes, barriers may have merit in being able to stop an individual's attempt at committing suicide on that particular day and at that particular site. However, the reasons behind that person's wanting to commit suicide in the first place, whatever that reason may be, has not been addressed at all. Erecting barriers doesn't prevent that person from attempting to take their life again, and I doubt they would choose to try and jump off a fenced bridge the second time around. More concerning is the possibility that the money to erect the barriers could be redirected from prevention methods/organisations which are more successful, as they address the root cause for people wanting to take their lives in the first place.

It puts the problem out of sight, out of mind. Not good enough.

I agree that the issue of suicide needs to be in the public realm. The fact we are discussing it is a good thing, because sadly there are people out there that are looking at taking their own life and its our responsibility to stop it from happening.

Alot of suicides tend to take place in private locations, away from where people can see them. If a suicide occurs in a public place like the Story Bridge, its often done because the person wants to make a point e.g "It's your fault that I'm doing this" and/or to draw attention to their problems.

More often than not, a mental illness such as depression, anxiety or other psychatric conditions influences a persons decision to take their own life. Mental Illness has become a major problem in society across so many areas. Sometimes, we have to dwelve further into the persons mind to find out what is making them want to do it. We have to find out what causes that depression etc.

A few points:

Sometimes nomatter how much the would-be suicide gets help, support, psychiatric help, no-one else can ultimately make a difference because the would-be suicide's mind is on its own destructive track and nothing gets through so all the help in the world will not get through.

Do not get sucked into another person's suicidal 'drama': professional help is necessary & amateurs only compound the problem by becoming involved. Be sympathetic but do not buy in. More often than not the well-intentioned amateur does more harm than good.

Do not get too involved because often that just means it destroys you. Two victims is not helpful to either party. If you go down as well how can you be there to offer positive support? Depression and bi-polar disorder, chronic alcoholism, etc., are beyond the scope of ability of most people and dealing with it in a loved one is a most terrifying and damaging experience and not one that is cured overnight but also not dissimilar to a life sentence, just as the actual disease is for the victim.

Rarely is someone else to blame: it is usually a malfunction in the suicide's brain, an inability to deal with problems, issues or just life. Do not accept blame if you are accused unless you are a brutal psychopath yourself.

As I've indicated before, there is always at least one other victim in a suicide or even just an attempted or a series of attempted suicides: the loved one who is the survivor who is left to deal with the aftermath. There is Alanon for friends & loved ones of alcoholics and there should be/may be, a similar organisation for friends & loved ones of suicides, for those not strong enough to deal with life's backhanders themselves. These folk are the collateral damage of suicide.

There are no easy fixes, no simple solutions, just do your best, get professional help and hope for the best, whether you are the potential suicide or a loved one.

Mate, there are no two ways about it, this guy is a child murderer, no matter what spin people put on his attributes before the incident.

If he didn't jump himself, do you think people would still be saying "I can't believe he killed his son! But still, he's a great guy, fantastic teacher, and an awesome footy ref...top bloke!" Yeah...no.

It's not that i don't agree that what he did was truly horrible, but from the perspective of his family, friends and students who felt they actually knew him and liked/respected him, this is a very difficult thing to fit into that picture. I really don't think they're trying to alter public opinion but express that fact. It's almost reflexive to speak positively of the dead, even if they weren't that decent in the first place.

However, the way I look at it, if he didn't jump, he wouldn't have murdered his son.

The same mental issues that drove him to jump, also drove hime to believe he was doing the best thing for his son. I think he saw that he was more devoted to his son than the rest of his family.

probably best to give him the benefit of the doubt, but parents reasons for killing their own children are often selfish and spiteful: you can't have them.

You lack empathy for the family and friends who knew the man and the child brizzychris I hope they do not read your comments the last thing these poor souls need is such a self righteous view at such a difficult time - disgraceful

A few points:

Sometimes nomatter how much the would-be suicide gets help, support, psychiatric help, no-one else can ultimately make a difference because the would-be suicide's mind is on its own destructive track and nothing gets through so all the help in the world will not get through.



Fortunately, this scenario makes up only tiniest, tiniest percentage of people who have depression / suffer from suicidal thoughts. Studies consistently show that intervention is hugely powerful and the vast majority of people who go through these extreme low points make it out the other side.

You lack empathy for the family and friends who knew the man and the child brizzychris I hope they do not read your comments the last thing these poor souls need is such a self righteous view at such a difficult time - disgraceful

You're a moron. You clearly don't understand what I wrote.

The old Emerald site on Queen St/Ann St is up for sale. Will be interesting to see if anything develops out of that.

I'd like to see a highrise there rather than 480 Queen actually but anything of a substantial height will probably get knocked back for the same reasons as Emerald.

I don't think so. that was back when Brisbane tallest building was what? Riparian? We now have Soleil a stones throw away. I think something of substantial height will not face the same objections. That whole Emerald saga was a farce.

It's a prime site, so I hope something iconic ends up going there eventually (and if it manages to retain the view of St John's like Grocon's proposal did, I'll be very happy!)

Did the sale include the neighbouring 470 Queen St site? I know Grocon proposed to integrate that site into their proposal, but did they actually buy it from the previous owner as well?

I don't think so. that was back when Brisbane tallest building was what? Riparian? We now have Soleil a stones throw away. I think something of substantial height will not face the same objections. That whole Emerald saga was a farce.

You are right Samuel, I can't see any issue with a really thin very tall structure, but perhaps something more modest will go there but how much you want to bet it would be apartments. Emerald was of a different time, I can't see the BCC knocking back things going on there, most likely.

It was all to do with the sight lines to St John's Cathedral from Ann St. I reckon a 3 to 5 level building attached to the Orient Hotel would be the only thing allowed here now.

The old Emerald site on Queen St/Ann St is up for sale. Will be interesting to see if anything develops out of that.

Where did you hear/see that. My understanding is Grocon still have exclusive rights on it for a little while yet. Are you sure you have the correct site.

Because I have noticed the site between Queen and Adelaide is now up for sale, behind the Orient Hotel. Are you referring to that one?

Edit: Just realised thats exactly the site you are talking about, and other people in this thread have assumed it is the 480 Queen site.

Where did you hear/see that. My understanding is Grocon still have exclusive rights on it for a little while yet. Are you sure you have the correct site.

Because I have noticed the site between Queen and Adelaide is now up for sale, behind the Orient Hotel. Are you referring to that one?

Edit: Just realised thats exactly the site you are talking about, and other people in this thread have assumed it is the 480 Queen site.

The site around the Orient Hotel is Queen and Ann not Queen and Adelaide as you mentioned. There is a dirty big For Sale sign up on both Queen and Ann St's which sort of gives it away:)

The site around the Orient Hotel is Queen and Ann not Queen and Adelaide as you mentioned. There is a dirty big For Sale sign up on both Queen and Ann St's which sort of gives it away:)

Advertisement posted in today's Australian by Jones Lang LaSalle as well.

Advertisement posted in today's Australian by Jones Lang LaSalle as well.

The signs have been up for about 2 weeks and it's been in the Courier Mail, Fin Review and Australian for about the same time.

^^ Ahh, THAT site! It'll be good to see something done with that site. It's been sitting like that for as long as I can remember!

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/entertainment/restaurants-and-bars/the-between-streets-of-your-town-20120302-1u7pi.html

It's the lane-change Brisbane's been so desperately seeking.

After years of agonising over the status of its backstreets, a laneway culture finally seems to be sprouting in the river city.

Narrow entertainment strips are emerging on streets such as the CBD's Burnett and Gresham lanes; Winn and Constance streets in the Valley; North Quarter Lane at the foot of Kurilpa Bridge; and James Lane off James Street

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But even as a new culture seemingly takes root, some aren't convinced it has the capacity to flourish in the local environment.

Money honey pot

As an early adapter of the Brisbane City Council's Vibrant Laneways and Hidden Spaces project, Brett Roland, of Brew on Burnett Lane, believes that initial investment has paid off.

Mr Roland says the $10.65 million over four years allocated to the laneways project in the 2009 BCC budget has been largely responsible for creating an environment in which his café and bar could flourish.

Cuts in the cost of licence fees for small bars by the state government have also helped, though he says the cap of 60 patrons should be pushed to 80 if it really wants to succeed.

And even though BCC slashed $1.3 million off the vibrant laneways fund in June's post-flood budget, Mr Roland believes the ball is well and truly rolling.

“I'd say laneway culture is alive and well and growing," Roland says, "but there is a long way to go if you make that invariable comparison to Melbourne, for example.

“Look at Burnett Lane alone; you've got us, Super Whatnot, Survey Co bistro opening soon, the German Sausage Hut. And then there's the Valley laneways; Flamingo and QMusic are making great use of space on Winn Street.

“And while most of our business comes from the corporate city crowd who know we're here and seek us out during the week, we're now open on Saturdays because there's been growing demand – shoppers are more inclined to venture down our lane and discover what we do.”

Burnett Lane newcomer Simon Martin, of the months-old wine bar Super Whatnot, agrees and is optimistic about future success.

“We're not ready for an arm wrestle with Melbourne yet, but we're on the way,” he says.

“I grew up in Brisbane – I never thought I'd be having a conversation about laneway culture here, but I am now because it's happening.”

But not all businesses are convinced it's happening as it should.

Finding footing

Russell Mole worries those who 'get' laneways are in the minority, that Brisbanites aren't learning laneways fast enough.

Tucked into Gresham Lane, a laneway created as part of a redevelopment of the NAB building on Creek Street, Mr Moles' Bagel Nook has a happy corporate catering trade, and manages fine during lunch hour.

But foot traffic isn't what it would be with main street frontage, and the rents are still high; Mr Moles says he pays in the vicinity of $1000 per week for his laneway hole-in-the-wall .

“Laneway business is still challenging in Brisbane and it will be until people get used to seeking out destinations,” he says.

“If we did it all over again, I'm not sure we'd pick a laneway spot.

“It'll probably grow in time, but at the moment, it's pretty 50/50.”

Hot stuff

Mr Moles says the weather also poses a problem, especially in circumstances where most of the business activity is focused outside. He says Brisbane's big wets and bright sunshine helps keep people inside spacious air-conditioned main street bars and cafes.

Yet Mr Martin disagrees, and says that laneway culture speaks to people who would rather “celebrate, not escape” the city's weather.

“It's about recontextualising spaces and adapting to new ways of doing old businesses,” he says. “There are people in Brisbane who get that.”

Even Mr Roland admits sipping coffee in “grimy, authentically Melbourne-style” backstreets isn't for everybody, and thanks to a unique characteristic of laneway development in Brisbane, everybody doesn't have to.

Organic versus artificial

Deliberate development of laneways by government authorities and the private sector remains one of the distinguishing features of local laneway culture.

Where Melbourne's famous labyrinth of graffiti-stained backstreets emerged as lifestyle hubs over time, Brisbane laneways have largely been the result of conscious council repackaging of service streets previously used for deliveries.

Such a change in attitude was the core goal of the Vibrant Laneways project, Lord Mayor Graham Quirk says, seeking to unlock the potential tucked away in restrictive town plans.

Cr Quirk says council undertook cosmetic improvements of Burnett Lane, Market Street, Jacob's Ladder and Little Roma Street as part of the project which included resurfacing cleaning and the installation of public artwork.

“The Burnett Lane transformation is an example of the success of such a project, having seen thousands of visitors and workers in the CBD take in what is a unique cultural and social experience in Brisbane,” he says.

Yet would-be ALP lord mayor Ray Smith thinks the role of local government should be “less dictator, more facilitator”, and that too much third party involvement stymies the creativity needed for a “truly vibrant laneway culture”.

“I'm strongly in favour of developing our laneways but it should be a process that occurs naturally, without the prescriptive influence of council,” he says.

“I'd like to leave the growth of the character of our laneways up to the small businesses themselves – they should be able to set the terms; it's our role to support them.”

Politics aside, Mr Roland sasys the success of Brisbane's laneway culture lies in the hands, and at the feet, of the city's people.

Whether the business occurs in shiny new spaces or between old bricks and mortar matters little as long as customers come looking, their minds and wallets open.

"It's not easy, and it does take people with a vision to follow through with the activation of these spaces, and they need people with the right attitude to support them," Roland says.

"What does get on peoples nerves are the constant comparisons to Melbourne - we don't want to be Melbourne, we want to have our own thing going on up here."



Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/entertainment/restaurants-and-bars/the-between-streets-of-your-town-20120302-1u7pi.html#ixzz1nwPAkybB

It was all to do with the sight lines to St John's Cathedral from Ann St. I reckon a 3 to 5 level building attached to the Orient Hotel would be the only thing allowed here now.

I'd prefer that myself but I have a feeling it may go to apartments next to compliment Wollahra (sorry for spelling) maybe 20 stories? I'd like something built on it, it looks ugly as a hole, but then again that's just being fussy.

My ideal scenario for this site, following the issuing of the BCC blueprint several years ago with its key projects was to see this site capped to match the height of the orient hotel.

http://www.ohta.org.au/images/Brisbane-St-Johns-Cathedral-2009-01.jpg

In the 90s and early 2000s a lot of money was spent on completing the neo-gothic front of St John's, and it always seemed such a travesty that they then continued the original plan to cap the main spire with a flat pyramid roof rather than a complete full spire. I always wanted to see a full spire built in the manner of Santiago Calatrava's design for he replacement spire to the Cathedral of St John Divine in New York. Such a response would seem to be a sensitive consensus between 18th century church building tradition with 21st centrury budgetary constraints.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_SOExBdFFDhM/TNKYz6YEP7I/AAAAAAAAABM/yY73RXOBzoc/s1600/Cathedral_StJohn_132_03.jpg

I think that the current design of St John's Cathedral is in fact the actual design envisaged. There was no taller spire in the central portion. Correct me if I am wrong. Still, it is the largest stone vaulted gothic cathedral in the southern hemisphere. The interiors are wonderful....and in Brisbane!

holy shit willahra was built in 2003? Jesus, not even ten years old and it already looks dated to hell. I do wonder with the current trend of high rise resi architecture popping up these days (overuse of concrete, useless 'fins' etc.) just how bad they will look in only 10 years. Another bad one is mantra next door, and of course most of petrie bight which already looks disgusting.

but willahra is truly hideous

holy shit willahra was built in 2003? Jesus, not even ten years old and it already looks dated to hell. I do wonder with the current trend of high rise resi architecture popping up these days (overuse of concrete, useless 'fins' etc.) just how bad they will look in only 10 years. Another bad one is mantra next door, and of course most of petrie bight which already looks disgusting.

but willahra is truly hideous

I see your point, I don't have an issue with the shape or location, just the colour but then again it's just being fussy. I do agree with you Chuck some will look horrible in 5 let alone 10 years.

...and of course most of petrie bight which already looks disgusting.

Can't disagree with this part of the statement at all, and annoying, some of the most attractive parts of the area in my opinion – the Adcorp and former Clemenger BBDO buildings – are destined to be demolished, as there are approved DAs over those buildings as well as the adjacent Hacketts building. I just hope that if those DAs are proceeded with, the ground level doesn't end up looking like Soliel!

Can't disagree with this part of the statement at all, and annoying, some of the most attractive parts of the area in my opinion – the Adcorp and former Clemenger BBDO buildings – are destined to be demolished, as there are approved DAs over those buildings as well as the adjacent Hacketts building. I just hope that if those DAs are proceeded with, the ground level doesn't end up looking like Soliel!

Ahhh I Love the Hacketts building =(

I seriously hope none of those are demolished. Forget the printery and regent - those three are a great collection, with the addition of that beautiful art deco building on the corner are the only saving grace of the area

^^ Don't worry, the art deco building (501 Ann Street) has a state heritage listing on it and is one of a couple of buildings down that way that do have listings. The others are the former Catholic Leader Building on Ann St (BCC Listing) and the former Austral Motors Building on Boundary St (State Listing), both parts of All Hallows:

http://heritage.brisbane.qld.gov.au/heritage_register/getFile.do?uploadId=1042 http://archive.homehound.com.au/images/RW2/911/5473096/7755281_01_l.jpg

As well there's the Former Inglis Tea Warehouse (Ecco Bistro) on the corner of Adelaide and Boundary (BCC Listing, only the white corner building):

http://heritage.brisbane.qld.gov.au/heritage_register/getFile.do?uploadId=480

And one of the old CEL boxes on the corner of Boundary and Ann St.

http://heritage.brisbane.qld.gov.au/heritage_register/getFile.do?uploadId=415

The rest is fair game and currently have approved DAs over it. I'm not holding out much hope for the others surviving...

What are they actually building on them? The Hacketts and Adcorp buildings are great for that part of town. Are they not historically significant?

^^ You would think so, but apparently not enough to be considered for heritage listing - possibly because there are DAs active over the sites? Or maybe they were locally listed and the owners were able to get around it like Lorna Jane has done with the Trails Cold Stores building in the Valley?

Anyway, you have 502 Adelaide St (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=238583) on the site with Adcorp and Clemenger BBDO buildings. And 549 Queen St (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=149555) on the Hacketts site. Both appeared to have died with the GFC, but applications to extend the existing DAs were lodged late last year. Both are being co-developed, effectively redeveloping the whole block with the exception of the E'cco Building. Similar concept to 111+222 with cross block links and public areas I believe.

Scaffolding and signage outside River Place apartments indicate it is about to be PAINTED!
About time as it has looked fade for years now.

Just reapplying beige paint? Although it would still look shit, a change of colour to 21st century would be good

Revised Brisbane Long-Term Infrastructure Development Plan (2012-2031):

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/downloads/about_council/governance_strategy/Brisbane_Long_Term_Infrastructure_Plan-full.pdf

Revised Brisbane Long-Term Infrastructure Development Plant (2012-2031):

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/downloads/about_council/governance_strategy/Brisbane_Long_Term_Infrastructure_Plan-full.pdf

I just had this mental image of a factory pumping out bits of infrastructure and buildings... :nuts:

Oops...corrected.

Not as silly as it sounds, the mass produced prefab building era is almost upon us.

I seriously hope none of those are demolished. Forget the printery and regent - those three are a great collection, with the addition of that beautiful art deco building on the corner are the only saving grace of the area

You should see what they do to Art Deco buildings in Melbourne. I'd say these are due for the Deen Bros wrecking ball. They would make good apartments. Hope not.

You should see what they do to Art Deco buildings in Melbourne.

You mean knocking them down, like with poor Lonsdale House? Don't get me started what they're doing to their heritage buildings down there! The Printery and the petrie bight buildings are nothing compared to what Melbourne is currently demolishing/planning to demolish!

http://www.thecollectormm.com.au/gallery/photography/City/slides/Lonsdale5.jpg
*Image credit, The Collector (http://www.thecollectormm.com.au/)*

Cross River Rail moves a step closer
March 9, 2012 - 11:03AM
By Tony Moore (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/state-election-2012/cross-river-rail-moves-a-step-closer-20120309-1uoi9.html)


Brisbane's Cross River Rail project is one step closer to starting with confirmation this morning that the state has formally asked the Federal Government for $3.98 billion in funding.

With the funding request spaced out over seven years, on average that means the state government is asking annually for comparable sums of money that the Commonwealth has already promised to Brisbane City Council’s Legacy Way tunnel ($500 million) and for the Petrie to Kippa Ring rail line ($740 million).

The underground rail project’s estimated construction cost has been scaled back from an estimated $7.7 billion in 2011 to $6.4 billion this week after a detailed study by Australia’s chief infrastructure assessment group, Infrastructure Australia.
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It also indicates for the first time the scale of funding sought from the state government and private sector for the project: the remaining $2.42 billion over seven years.

Last month Infrastructure Australia elevated the project higher on their Australian-wide priority list, classing it as “ready to proceed”, meaning all impact studies had been completed satisfactorily.

This morning, Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk confirmed in a statement the Queensland Government had asked for the staged funding of $3.98 billion over seven years.

“Projects dubbed ‘ready to proceed’ by Infrastructure Australia are recommended as the highest priorities for Federal Government infrastructure funding,” Ms Palaszczuk said.

“They tick all the right boxes in helping to solve infrastructure needs, providing significant economic benefits and having a ‘ready to go’ status,” she said.

Sources have indicated to brisbanetimes.com.au the funding – if approved – would be announced in this year’s federal budget in May.

Last year brisbanetimes.com.au identified that one of Queensland's main rivals for infrastructure funding was a similar underground tunnel project for inner-city Melbourne.

The Cross River Rail would run 18 kilometres from Yeerongpilly to Victoria Park and includes new underground rail stations at Wolloongabba under the Sunmap Centre, Boggo Road and Albert Street and Roma Street in the CBD.

It includes new ground level stations at Yeerongpilly and Exhibition.

LNP leader Campbell Newman has initially supported the need for an underground rail project in Brisbane, then later changed his mind to supporting a less expensive “metro” rail link.

Private consultants last month recently flouted a cheaper option with an extension of the Riverside Expressway carrying a light rail link from Woolloongabba to Roma Street.

With the LNP still tipped to win the state election in May 24, Mr Newman’s position on the project will be crucial.

Brisbane now has only one rail crossing which allows trains from the southside of the city to get the northside, the Merivale Rail Bridge near the Gallery of Modern Art at South Brisbane.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/state-election-2012/cross-river-rail-moves-a-step-closer-20120309-1uoi9.html#ixzz1oZwRmyXB

Two of the venues proposed for the 2018 Commonwealth Games in the Gold Coast are a new velodrome in the Sleeman Sports Complex and the Belmont Shooting Centre. Can this benefit any future Olympic bid from Brisbane?

It depends on what the IOC requirements are, but I think they would be very helpful.

Seven News Queensland is doing a flashback story on the development of satelite cities like Robina and North Lakes at 6pm tonight (11/3/2012).

Dont think anybody has mentioned yet that MOS Burger has a site in the city. It will 'soon' open at the old Krispy Kreme store on Albert St

^^ Soul did mention it in the general retail thread, but not here I don't think. With MOS Burger and the two Guzman Y Gomez outlets opening, it'll be great to get another few options other than the ubiquitous Subways!

I hope Din Tai Fung open a store here - I love their dumplings!!!

Prime Site has an article of AMP looking to develop 25,000sqm at 147 Corronation Drive (From Google Earth it looks to be near the corner of Cribb Street and Little Cribb Street). The Milton Station Neighbourhood Plan allows for towers up to 15 stories in height.

If you're keen, feel free to sign up and be a supporter.

http://makemycitywork.com.au/

^^ That site fails the four second test...

Point Number Two (http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/biggest-mistakes-in-web-design-1995-2015.html)

although I agree with you that the site is lacking a little direction and key message, but Vincent Flanders is a bit of a tool, who shouldn't be taken as gospel. He makes some valid points some of the time.

For those that care, Nespresso are taking up residency:

226 Queen St Brisbane City QLD 4000

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6817/67773532.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3125/11305091.jpg

^^ *sigh* ^^

Nothing like 2 month old vacum packed stale imported coffee .. as a coffee snob I am seriously offended by this store.

/end rant.

^^ *sigh* ^^

Nothing like 2 month old vacum packed stale imported coffee .. as a coffee snob I am seriously offended by this store.

/end rant.

What makes it worse is that they use a robusta blend, and then claim its good quality coz it's the 'top 1%' of the world's robusta.

And apparently it's 10 months :/ This all came out of the mouth of the smug salesman who I was challenging about the quality of their product.

Fresh beans anyday thank you very much.

^^

Cookie cutter store concept.
Same layout as Doncaster.

What makes it worse is that they use a robusta blend, and then claim its good quality coz it's the 'top 1%' of the world's robusta.

And apparently it's 10 months :/ This all came out of the mouth of the smug salesman who I was challenging about the quality of their product.

Fresh beans anyday thank you very much.

Your preachin' to the choir here .. I work for a specialty coffee roaster .. just to see the amount of people who will get sucked into this makes me shudder.

I give it a year before it goes belly up. The specialty coffee scene has been growing steadily the last few years in Brisbane but sadly there are still a lot of people who go to Gloria Jeans and Coffee Club .. *sigh*

sorry to disappoint but i frequent Gloria Jeans several times a week - it's my local. But I actually prefer a coffee club coffee. Am I wrong? I hate to let down the purists. I commend them for their passion. But in my defence it's not because of choice, just availability - I work in the suburbs.

mmmmmm

http://static.productreview.com.au/pr.products/144812_youll_love_coles_coffee_granules.jpg

^^
I still miss those Coles products where it had someone selling the product on the wrapping

"Mum says it's good for my bones, but I just like the taste" - Jim, 8 - Milk Drinker (this was on the Full Cream Milk bottle)

But as for Nespresso Coffee, it's more a deisgn thing than the actual taste of the coffee I think. I couldn't care less about Nespresso's crappy coffee (because I don't drink Nespresso), but as for a cool store design, and its a good replacement for French Conection.

^^ You're right, it's a design and brand recognition thing. In a way, Nespresso has become the "Apple" of the coffee machine world. Their machines seem to have become a status symbol just like having a Mac/iPhone/iPad. Not necessary any better than the competition (and in some respects, not as good), but popular in part simply because of the brand and "high quality" design.

Either way, the store seems to have been successful elsewhere, and will make a nice new addition to QueensPlaza. As I don't drink coffee, how good the product is doesn't matter as I won't be buying one! :-P

The ULDA site has a new application for a 16 story office / mixed use tower with about 24,000m² of office space fronting St Paul's terrace where the Mongolian BBQ is located.

sorry to disappoint but i frequent Gloria Jeans several times a week - it's my local. But I actually prefer a coffee club coffee. Am I wrong? I hate to let down the purists. I commend them for their passion. But in my defence it's not because of choice, just availability - I work in the suburbs.

If you don't mind me asking .. what suburb do you work in .. I know where all the decent cafes are.

taigum.

Westpac stated that it has no interest in Suncorp... but I'm sure others are... I just hope this deal goes ahead. I don't see anything wrong with it myself.http://www.australialuxe.info/013-3.jpg
http://www.australialuxe.info/huang3.jpg
http://www.australialuxe.info/huang2.jpg

taigum.

Oh man .. you really are in no mans land as far as coffee goes .. that sucks. :/

ha ha. Yeah i wasn't what you would reply with after seeing my response. As you can see, my selection of coffee barristers is not by choice.

The ULDA site has a new application for a 16 story office / mixed use tower with about 24,000m² of office space fronting St Paul's terrace where the Mongolian BBQ is located.

Doesn't look like there are any renders of it :(
http://www.ulda.qld.gov.au/dad/devappdetails.aspx?ACTION=&x=jjlQBRMsJ%2fM%3d&tabId=tab1&Action=PREAPP

http://www.beanhunter.com/cafes/review/buon-caffe

Thanks 38921111. I have driven past it many times but it didn't look too inviting from the exterior. It is slightly further than I would like to go, but if the coffee is good, I will try it out.

In fact I think i will go there this morning and try it.

As mentioned earlier

http://i.imgur.com/axYDn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sT7wh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sBCCE.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xnZf3.jpg

Thanks for the pics Jesse!

Is that the actual new Wintergarden facade? Or is it being covered until the opening of stage 2?

^^It's still covered up with black wrapping, only the butterfiles stick out.

^^
:lol: that's good because I was wondering what on Earth was going on.

I'm actually really excited. I think the stores will look great. The Wintergarden is turning out very impressive.

P.S - Jesse24, I've reposted the photos in the "Luxury Brands on Edward Street" thread as well.

Urgh, what is the deal with the coffee on the nespresso hoarding? It looks like she's about to tuck into a nice cup of whipped egg whites...

^^:lol:

I only just noticed that some of the butterflies still have styrofoam on their tips. Surely they could have taken them off.

Keeps them protected till handover.

^^ Might be in preparation for when the black plastic is removed, make sure no one injures themselves in the process? They'll only be there for a couple of weeks more anyway...

Looks like another suicide jumper on the Story Bridge this morning.

By mid morning he hadn't jumped yet. My fiancee works at the Riverside Centre and they could see him there.

Although I just looked on Brisbane Times and either he jumped or they got him to stop:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/delays-on-story-bridge-after-police-incident-20120322-1vlac.html

I can't get my head around the butterflys. Nice pictures Jesse. I just don't like this facade, but I do like this at the same time, it's strange my view changes each day, but it seems the facade is a lot more liked than hated. I look forward to hearing views on this on this board when the uncovering happens soon.

Urgh, what is the deal with the coffee on the nespresso hoarding? It looks like she's about to tuck into a nice cup of whipped egg whites...

Yeah dude .. if you get served a coffee that looks like that tell them its not 1987 anymore and demand your money back. :ohno:

Theatre plan may dissuade interest in redevelopment of old Brisbane Supreme Court site

PLANS to include a theatre in the redevelopment of the old Brisbane Supreme Court site could give potential developers second thoughts, according to a leading property consultant.

Last year the State Government called for expressions of interest for the purchase and redevelopment of the George St building in the CBD.

The Government offered for the mixed-use site to be used as a luxury hotel, offices, retail and a privately owned and operated theatre.

Urbis director Ben Slack said it should attract a number of developers. However, some may shy away if the theatre is a pre-requisite.

"While the site presents some great opportunities, it also brings with it unique challenges due to some of the pre-requisites the Government is placing on the sale,'' he said.

"Putting a 1200 to 1500-seat theatre into the mix will present a challenge. It may work as part of a hotel/retail mix but I can't see it fitting that well with commercial office space.''

"I'm not saying it can't work but I think it would present some challenges from both a design and commercial perspective.''

Mr Slack said Urbis has priced the block at between $50 and $60 million while the total mixed-use redevelopment of the site would be about $500 million.

He said larger developers with a national presence and perhaps a construction arm as well as institutions and overseas players will look closely at the site.

"I think there will be a fair degree of interest because it is one of the last large full city blocks that's available in the city and most of the key sites have already been developed,'' he said.

The 8000sqm site is the 13th largest single-lot land parcel within the Brisbane CBD.

The new Brisbane Supreme Court and District Court building is due to be finished by the middle of the year.

Mr Slack did not believe there were any heritage issues for any developer to deal with.

He said the site would lend itself to a number of uses with the most commercially viable being a mix of retail and office space.

"Office space is at a premium in the CBD with the mining boom forcing vacancy rates close to record lows at 4 per cent,'' he said.

"There are a couple of new commercial buildings due to come online shortly but, within five years, there will be a need for more.

"This would be around the time this development would be coming on to the market.''

Mr Slack said there was also a desperate need for more hotel rooms in the CBD which has limited the number and size of conventions hosted in Brisbane.

"Conventions are a key economic driver for cities such as Brisbane but we simply don't have enough hotel rooms to attract the really big ones,'' he said.

"At peak periods during the year hotels in Brisbane are virtually at capacity.

"The Brisbane City Council has recognised this need and set up a Hotel Supply Task Group to work with the state government to facilitate new developments.

"They have even removed all infrastructure charges for new hotel developments to sweeten the pot.''

Companies have until the end of this month to register an interest in tendering for the purchase and redevelopment of the site.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/business/primesite/theatre-plan-may-dissuade-interest-in-redevelopment-of-old-brisbane-supreme-court-site/story-fncfcq52-1226307808454

Theatre plan may dissuade interest in redevelopment of old Brisbane Supreme Court site

PLANS to include a theatre in the redevelopment of the old Brisbane Supreme Court site could give potential developers second thoughts, according to a leading property consultant.

Last year the State Government called for expressions of interest for the purchase and redevelopment of the George St building in the CBD.

The Government offered for the mixed-use site to be used as a luxury hotel, offices, retail and a privately owned and operated theatre.

Urbis director Ben Slack said it should attract a number of developers. However, some may shy away if the theatre is a pre-requisite.

"While the site presents some great opportunities, it also brings with it unique challenges due to some of the pre-requisites the Government is placing on the sale,'' he said.

"Putting a 1200 to 1500-seat theatre into the mix will present a challenge. It may work as part of a hotel/retail mix but I can't see it fitting that well with commercial office space.''

"I'm not saying it can't work but I think it would present some challenges from both a design and commercial perspective.''



= why publish such a story? In the best interests of qld and brisbane, set the prerequisite that we want, stick to it and the sale will come. I swear that the media's promotion of immediate results is really starting to jeapordise the making of correct longer term decisions. "Instant" media is really becoming incongruous with well considered, visionary comprehension of civic/urban development. God help us when social media really starts to affect goverment decision making. I fear we are yet to face the storm...

Ok, this may not be the right thread, but oh well. For years I've wondered this, but assumed I'd finally work it out. When buildings are under construction with glass glazing, often there are panels that are wood instead of glass. Is there a specific reason for this?

I had always assumed that it was due to breakage, but at the QUT SCITECH precinct going up it seems like every 10th panel on the SCITECH is wood...

I always assumed that each glass panel has a specific location. If a certain panel wasn't delivered, there were faults in manufacturing etc, they would skip the panel and go to the next one.

Just a guess though.

My guess was that it was to act as an external access point if required for some reason (in case of emergency perhaps?). Again, that's just a guess.

KJBrissy is pretty close to correct on this one. Usually a delivery or quality issue means a panel was not installed in sequence with the rest. Also around locations where there is a need to maintain an opening (i.e. where crane ties come in, or where a hoist is tied in) until later on in the staging.

Nathan - No emergency access/egress point would ever be through a window opening. Normally this would be in a hoist (if fitted) or down the interior emergency stairwell.

Cheers BrizzyChris, mystery solved. The maintaining an opening part was close to what I was thinking – I knew that some of them did look planned (like where you have several missing panels vertically aligned), I just couldn't think of a reason for it.

If you look back at photos of 111 Eagle about 5-6 months ago, you will see heaps all down the northern side where the man/materials hoist and crane used to tie into the slabs.

^^ Yeah, that's probably what I recall seeing.

In other news for Brisbane pub fans, a DA (A003316632) has been lodged to carry out building work on the Victory Hotel on Edward St. Still waiting on docs to appear, but it still lists uses as hotel and restaurant, so I'm thinking a reno, but the previous owners did have an approved DA to demolish it and build a big 5 level pub/restaurant/function space, so who knows! It is on the council heritage register as the oldest existing pub in the CBD (built 1855), so it could be an interesting proposal. Watch this space...

If you look back at photos of 111 Eagle about 5-6 months ago, you will see heaps all down the northern side where the man/materials hoist and crane used to tie into the slabs.

Yeah, that's what I thought, which is why I'm kinda confused as to how prolific the wooden panels are on the SCITECH building....

http://www.creativewireworkshops.com/pictures/scitech1.jpg

It's a damn good looking facade...who would know it's for a uni!

I think there's going to be a segment on Wintergarden on 9 News tomorrow night (28th). I'm not 100% sure, I only caught the end of it, so I'm assuming that's what it's about.

I originally posted this is the General Bris Retail thread, but I'll put it here for anyone who doesn't look at those threads. ISPT have increased their slice of the QSM, buying half of the Myer Centre from Colonial.

Fund's $366m play for Myer Centre stake

by: Chris Herde From: The Courier-Mail March 27, 2012 9:14am
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CHANGING HANDS: Melbourne-based fund manager ISPT paid $366 million to buy a half share in the Myer Centre.

SUPER fund manager ISPT has become the largest landholder in the Queen Street Mall after forking out $366 million to buy a half share in the Myer Centre.

The Commonwealth Bank-managed CFS Retail Property Trust (CFX) yesterday announced the sale of 50 per cent of the centre and also on-market unit buy-back for up to $150 million of CFX units.

The deal is the largest transaction this year and reflects a yield of 6.51 per cent.

In November last year, an independent valuation priced the centre at $732 million.

CFX fund manager Michael Gorman said the sale releases capital from an asset which has realised significant value.

"The proceeds from this sale will be used in a range of investment and capital management activities," he said.

."To maximise returns for investors, we will continue to investigate the sale of 100 per cent interests in smaller non-core assets and half-interests in some of our wholly-owned shopping centres."

The six-level Myer Centre Brisbane was acquired by CFX in 1988 for $369 million.

It has 63,700sq m of space and houses Target, Coles Central, an eight-screen Event cinema complex and more than 180 retail specialty stores.

Colonial First State Management will continue managing the centre.

The deal was negotiated by Jones Lang LaSalle head of national retail investments Simon Rooney.

The sale lifts Melbourne-based ISPT's Queen Street Mall exposure, having last year bought Broadway on the Mall to go with the Wintergarden, which will reopen next month after a multimillion-dollar redevelopment.

"The purchase is consistent with our strategy of wanting to expand our higher quality and regional and sub-regional retail exposure," ISPT chief executive Daryl Browning said.

"We think that the Mall in Brisbane is one of the strongest in Australia and the Brisbane CBD is a very strong market and hence has attracted our capital investment."

Mr Rooney said the sale was an example of large Australian real estate investment trusts recycling capital and retaining management by selling down part or whole shares in core regional assets.

"What it also demonstrates is that institutional investors view the current period as a window of opportunity to secure strategic exposure to the dominant, core regional shopping centre market that traditionally is rarely traded," he said.

"As a result of this success, we expect other major owners will be keen to pursue this strategy of capital recycling in order to fund expansions, refurbishments and/or to retire debt."

A fair few new applications on the ULDA site for Bowen Hills and Hamilton. New office building opposite RBH and a new complex of 8 office and residential towers in Hamilton (no higher than 12 stories though). Should provide some density.

ISPT own half of Queen Street these days.

Wintergarden, Regent, Hilton, Broadway, Myer Centre.

Well Hilton and Wintergarden Count as one...

And Colonial still have Queens Plaza (the most enviable) and half of Myer Centre...

Well Hilton and Wintergarden Count as one...

And Colonial still have Queens Plaza (the most enviable) and half of Myer Centre...


Well, Hilton and Wintergarden were two separate construction projects, built years apart. And on the Wintergarden/Hilton/Regent development they are described separately. The construction timetable of the current development reflects the same.

But I think the Hilton/Wintergarden were both purchased by ISPT as part of the same transaction... is that correct?

At any rate, the Hilton and the Wintergarden (and 155 Queen) were all Kern Corp developents. 155 was done at the same time(ish) as the Wintergarden.

With the Myer Centre valued so highly, seems ripe for a massive redevelopment with a 100+ storey tower on top. :)

*wake up* *wake up* :lol:

It really would be prefect for the skyline to have a nice tall building right in the middle though! :)

With the Myer Centre valued so highly, seems ripe for a massive redevelopment with a 100+ storey tower on top. :)

To be honest, I'm not sure how keen I would be on having having huge towers in that southern stretch of the mall. Maybe if it was considerably setback towards Elizabeth St it might be ok, but the landscape along Queen Street should be kept as low rise in my personal opinion.

That said, a massive redevelopment of the centre I be all for, just as long as the facades don't go anywhere! Same thing goes for the Adelaide Street facades on Broadway.

Anything to fix the centre up would be welcome, 180 shops yet nothing to buy

To be honest, I'm not sure how keen I would be on having having huge towers in that southern stretch of the mall. Maybe if it was considerably setback towards Elizabeth St it might be ok, but the landscape along Queen Street should be kept as low rise in my personal opinion.

That said, a massive redevelopment of the centre I be all for, just as long as the facades don't go anywhere! Same thing goes for the Adelaide Street facades on Broadway.

Well, you'd naturally have the tower(s) on the Elizabeth St side so it scaled down to Queen St. Plus being on the southern side of the mall, there would be no signficant shadowing issues during winter.

^^ While it wouldn't overshadow the mall, there could be overshadowing issues for Queens Park, depending where a potential tower would sit and how large it would be. Set it towards the dead centre of the complex and it should be fine (the shadow would be blocked by Casino Towers) but if it sits too far to the south of the site, it could overshadow the park.

That said, if we ever get the hotel for the hole in the ground between the Myer Centre and Irish Murphy's, it will probably overshadow the park as well.

Although the Park is almost directly south of the Myer Centre along Elizabeth Street so it won't receive any winter shade from buildings along Elizabeth north of George.

Would have to sit over the carpark portion, otherwise they'd be sinking columns through the bus tunnel.

This is what happens in the middle of winter if the Myer Centre was 200m tall.

http://users.tpg.com.au/cmr05e//myer900.JPG

http://users.tpg.com.au/cmr05e//myer1020.JPG

http://users.tpg.com.au/cmr05e//myer1300.JPG

I think the orientation is correct.

If you were going to undertake a massive reno, you would probably adjust the bus station anyway, and allow for any new piles necessary for a tower.

Your orientation seems correct.

The groundscraper on the corner of Musk Avenue and Kelvin Grove Road has been approved. Looks like Energex in Newstead.

Should be nice to see along KG road.

Although the Park is almost directly south of the Myer Centre along Elizabeth Street so it won't receive any winter shade from buildings along Elizabeth north of George.

I got confused. Oops. I confused myslef into thinking the sun came more from the south in winter. I've been thinking about the Northern Hemisphere too much!



Thanks Fyver.

The groundscraper on the corner of Musk Avenue and Kelvin Grove Road has been approved. Looks like Energex in Newstead.

Should be nice to see along KG road.

Just looked at the plans. I like this one. It's nice to see the warehouse things retained and incorporated into the design.

Cheers for the diagram Fyver!

Documents went up for the redevelopment of the Victory Hotel, it's just an extension of the previous redevelopment proposed a few years ago it looks like. The old proposal looked like this:

http://i.imgur.com/LRh0Uh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YMRFOh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/W2BfZh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/880CGh.jpg


It'll become a bloody big pub if it goes ahead, five levels worth!

http://i.imgur.com/mo0bNh.jpg

It's a bit disappointing that the Vic is turning into a super pub, instead of a more upmarket version to better suit Edward St. I just hope it doesn't ruin the feel of the area.

^^ Actually, if this proposal does actually go ahead, I think the result would be a much more upmarket establishment, judging by the addition of function rooms and additional dining areas. Besides, you couldn't do anything but improve on the Vic... it's certainly not exactly a high end establishment as it stands.

63 Blamey Street KG has also been approved this week - at 15 stories. Application number: A003212110.

Should see a lot of cranes in this area soon :)

This already has a crane and is already under construction ;)

As the local elections are fast approaching does anyone know if the local candidates have any policies, and if so where can I find them? Seems it's just list of names who hope people vote for them, even parties with no local policies.

^^ That's if you have anyone to vote for. For me, both the Mayor and the local member were unopposed!

The vic upgrade looks ok, The porto did a much better job though

As much as you can rant on about the Vic being a bogan watering hole, it would be a shame to loose the atmosphere with the Vic/Exchange and even the pub style buildings... Would be nice to recess some back to keep the profile & sign of original pub (but just clean it up a bit and choose more tasteful colours).

As much as you can rant on about the Vic being a bogan watering hole, it would be a shame to loose the atmosphere with the Vic/Exchange and even the pub style buildings... Would be nice to recess some back to keep the profile & sign of original pub (but just clean it up a bit and choose more tasteful colours).

I don't go to pubs due to not drinking, but I have and I really can't see the Exchange as a 'bogan' place, maybe on Sundays same with Victory, but the RG in Brunswick Street Mall is worse, but it is more a case of don't go there or if you go, ignore bogans, seems simple to me. I agree nismo would be a shame to lose them, but newer more 'sophisticted' aka Melbourne type, drinking places are welcome too. GPO I am not sure how that is going now it's not 'bogan'.

We can all co-exist in the world really.

Well, you'd naturally have the tower(s) on the Elizabeth St side so it scaled down to Queen St. Plus being on the southern side of the mall, there would be no signficant shadowing issues during winter.

Agree but, really there seems little choice to make things better again and do a development in the next 2 years even with GFC etc.

As for no shadowing issues, it certainly won't be like some of the streets of Sydney where it's bitterly cold in Winter due to shadows all day.

the loss of the vic will be a tragedy. the new plan is ugly and they should at lease incorporate the facades into it. the loss of the ground floor beergarden is also saddening. does anyone know the history of the building? nathan?

id probably feel much happier about it if the old parts of the building were incorporated into the new. i love adaptive reuse solutions. and on friday and saturday nights, the place has a good happy vibe. yeah theres no class but class dont equal fun!



The vic upgrade looks ok, The porto did a much better job though

the loss of the vic will be a tragedy. the new plan is ugly and they should at lease incorporate the facades into it. the loss of the ground floor beergarden is also saddening. does anyone know the history of the building? nathan?

id probably feel much happier about it if the old parts of the building were incorporated into the new. i love adaptive reuse solutions. and on friday and saturday nights, the place has a good happy vibe. yeah theres no class but class dont equal fun!


Totally agree, There are enough places to go in the city that are classy, the best venues are ones that don't take themselves seriously, the Vic would lose a lot of money with this redevelopment.

I can see the same thing happening at the regatta, why go there when I can get $3 basics at the RE and have a fun night?

the loss of the vic will be a tragedy. the new plan is ugly and they should at lease incorporate the facades into it. the loss of the ground floor beergarden is also saddening. does anyone know the history of the building? nathan?

Ok, history wise, and according to the blurb on the council heritage register, it was originally built in 1855 as the Prince of Wales Hotel, with it later being renamed the Victory (after WW1 I would imagine). It is the oldest surviving hotel in the CBD, but as with most hotels of the era, it was subjected to a lot of substantial alterations over the decades, from additions by Richard Gailey in the 1880s to more recent ones like the (common) removal of it's verandahs probably in the 1960s.

Here's a photo of the hotel with the verandahs, taken in the late 1950s:

http://i.imgur.com/igQnz.jpg

And a more recent photo from the Council website:

http://heritage.brisbane.qld.gov.au/heritage_register/getFile.do?uploadId=485

Honestly, I'm a bit split on this. Yes, the Victory is the oldest pub in the CBD and has that history behind it, but it's (arguably I'm sure) the most butchered CBD pub in terms of it's fabric. Lost verandahs (although not an isolated issue) and large alterations to the walls and facade with new openings cut, old openings infilled and the facade raised up above it's original height, loss of the chimneys, not to mention any effects from the fire a few years ago.

Either way, we shouldn't worry yet as we don't know if the proposal will ever be built. Just because they are renewing it doesn't mean they plan to proceed on it. They might just be looking to sell it off, and are including the approved plans to get more value perhaps? Time will tell...

The pictures do show the Victory has changed a bit already. I think I'd actually prefer to see it raise up a few levels, but I'd be sad to lose the famous beer garden.

It's called the Victory because it's named after HMS Victory, Admiral Lord Nelson's flagship at the battle of Trafalgar. There are a few pictures of the ship in one of the bars.

just because of its age the facade should be kept as a bare minimum

^^ If it still had the verandas etc. I would agree but theres just no point how it is now, in my eyes the facade has already gone.....

I'm not sure how well straight facadism works on a pub like this. It works on buildings like those in Queen Street because the building facades have traditionally been highly visible and have remained the same.

As Eastern37 says, the Victory is different. For most of it's life, the facade was hidden by the original awning and verandas that surrounded it. When the verandas were removed, the facade was also changed substantially. The facade was lifted up, hiding half of the original roofline, while the doors that allowed access to the veranda were either completely bricked up (like the one directly behind the modern Victory logo) or at least partially bricked up to make them windows.

Is what's left original enough in appearance to warrant being retained?

^^ If it still had the verandas etc. I would agree but theres just no point how it is now, in my eyes the facade has already gone.....

as easy as they were taken away, they can be put back. if they were buildable in the 1850s why is it so hard to build then today?

^^ Yes, they can be put back, the Port Office Hotel is a good example of that. But, they are then new work, not original elements. The whole point of retention of heritage building, either in all or in part, is to retain important elements of the past. Remembering the architectural ingenuity and the physical craftsmanship of decades long past that are still apparent in the building.

Even if they rebuilt the verandahs and awnings and then facade it, the question still remains – how much of that original architectural ingenuity and physical craftsmanship would be retained. Would it be more 1855 being kept, or more 1960s, or more 2012?

^^ Yes, they can be put back, the Port Office Hotel is a good example of that. But, they are then new work, not original elements. The whole point of retention of heritage building, either in all or in part, is to retain important elements of the past. Remembering the architectural ingenuity and the physical craftsmanship of decades long past that are still apparent in the building.

Even if they rebuilt the verandahs and awnings and then facade it, the question still remains – how much of that original architectural ingenuity and physical craftsmanship would be retained. Would it be more 1855 being kept, or more 1960s, or more 2012?

by your logic every old building in the country should be demolished to make way for the new. get real. its like you just graduated from cultural heritage management course at uq

real world dude. get into it
the purpose of the place should be the most valued when working out its value to our culture

by your logic every old building in the country should be demolished to make way for the new. get real. its like you just graduated from cultural heritage management course at uq

real world dude. get into it
the purpose of the place should be the most valued when working out its value to our culture

Agreed.

Hey guys I know I'm being a massive pain in the ass, But does anyone know if the Riparion Plaza DA would still be up on PDonline? had a look but couldn't find what I was looking for, Im doing an arch assignment so I need the application bit that has all the materials, design reasonings, diagrams, renders etc, Like the one for 111 & 222 that is online now.

Any help would be great.

Hey guys I know I'm being a massive pain in the ass, But does anyone know if the Riparion Plaza DA would still be up on PDonline? had a look but couldn't find what I was looking for, Im doing an arch assignment so I need the application bit that has all the materials, design reasonings, diagrams, renders etc, Like the one for 111 & 222 that is online now.

Any help would be great.

I did a quick search. Did you try any of these?

A001608318
A001608319
A001608320
A001608321
A001633116
A001633117
A002019198

UPDATE: I see what you mean now. Its quite empty over there isnt it!

Agreed.

Agreed as well though it would be 'nice' if there was a bit more civility and tolerance of views on here 'but' it's ok I understand the net is about sticking the boot into each other on blogs and forums, and anyway I do it too so...

I just think that if one is really upset by someone saying 'oh well they should have kept Festival Hall/Cloudland/Regent whatever, well, don't read it if you don't agree but to argue is pointless, if it's gone it's gone but regret is powerful and to attempt to save more history sometimes at the expense of commercial viability of a structure is great. I'm not advocating keep every single water tap etc, but there is too much destruction in Brisbane and no doubt it will continue, but some buildings are beyond use and that's ok too.

I think the biggest disgrace in Brisbane is the Village Twin. To leave it like that. Maybe it should be demolished totally, but it's disgusting, but again I know there are factors like money etc. Still, it is disappointing it sits there and to keep something, not as a cinema maybe, would be nice, but again it's complicated.

But to want to tear down every single old building? the purpose of the place should be the most valued when working out its value to our culture to quote the poster; totally.

Agreed as well though it would be 'nice' if there was a bit more civility and tolerance of views on here 'but' it's ok I understand the net is about sticking the boot into each other on blogs and forums, and anyway I do it too so...

I just think that if one is really upset by someone saying 'oh well they should have kept Festival Hall/Cloudland/Regent whatever, well, don't read it if you don't agree but to argue is pointless, if it's gone it's gone but regret is powerful and to attempt to save more history sometimes at the expense of commercial viability of a structure is great. I'm not advocating keep every single water tap etc, but there is too much destruction in Brisbane and no doubt it will continue, but some buildings are beyond use and that's ok too.

I think the biggest disgrace in Brisbane is the Village Twin. To leave it like that. Maybe it should be demolished totally, but it's disgusting, but again I know there are factors like money etc. Still, it is disappointing it sits there and to keep something, not as a cinema maybe, would be nice, but again it's complicated.

But to want to tear down every single old building? the purpose of the place should be the most valued when working out its value to our culture to quote the poster; totally.

The owner of the Village twin, Dare Power, has a fantastic approved DA to not only rebuild the rear cinema, but to also include outdoor dining and function space on the property. The DA is on Pd online. I highly recommend you take a look as the architect has done a superior job.

I get the impression Mr. Power is just waiting for the economy to improve. Im sorry brizrulz, but I think this is one of the few cases of a developer doing the right thing by a heritage place.

I did a quick search. Did you try any of these?

A001608318
A001608319
A001608320
A001608321
A001633116
A001633117
A002019198

UPDATE: I see what you mean now. Its quite empty over there isnt it!

Mmm, Im a bit lost, I emailed the architects to see they could help me out. I was originally going to do One One One but the tutor wouldn't let me

I believe they only keep applications up for 5 years.

Riparian was finished 7 years ago...

by your logic every old building in the country should be demolished to make way for the new. get real. its like you just graduated from cultural heritage management course at uq

real world dude. get into it
the purpose of the place should be the most valued when working out its value to our culture

How do you figure that? My argument is about saving the true heritage features of a building, and making sure that we don't end up saving just a pastiche/reproduction of the past. If the whole bar was kept, the facade repaired to it's original state (or as close to as possible) and the awnings and verandah rebuilt, that would be a good outcome because the new works are adding reference to the original heritage fabric of the bar, which is being retained and also restored. This is what happened with the Port Office Hotel. The awnings they added are notably different in style to the original ones to show that they are new work, but adding them allowed the original facade to be restored closer to it's original state.

However, facadism is different. It in itself is a massive compromise – retaining only the most visible, superficial elements of a building while demolishing the rest. The problem with this, in the case of the Victory, is that the facade in its current form is no longer a dominant, original element due to substantial alterations that have occurred. It is more the traditional corner location and the continuous use as a pub that gives it its heritage – cultural elements rather than physical ones. Building a new awning onto it, with the view to facading the lot would result in keeping the new fabric (and possibly passing it off as original) and only retaining a sliver of original fabric of the wall. You'd lose a lot more than you would gain.

And yes, obviously the cultural purpose and significance is an important element of any historical place, that goes without saying. But at the same time, the redevelopment of the Victory as a pub would continue that cultural heritage of being used as a bar, regardless of how much of the original structure is left. When talking about saving or facading a heritage building, the fabric itself has to have at least equal importance – it is the fabric that is on the line.

Copyright law to stop councils posting DAs online

Harvey Grennan

April 3, 2012 - 12:33PM



http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2012/04/03/3185300/LT-DAs-art-420x0.jpg
What will happen if councils can no longer display plans and reports on their websites? Photo: Tamara Dean


Usefulness of DA tracking websites at risk following Crown Solicitor's advice.
Residents protesting against developments in their neighbourhood may no longer be able to obtain plans and documents from their council, making it difficult to frame formal objections.
And councils that have spent millions of dollars on electronic DA tracking systems to make the planning process more open and transparent will no longer be able to post the documents online.
While the public is entitled to access development applications and related documents under state freedom of information laws and the Planning Act, the Crown Solicitor has advised that the federal Copyright Act prevents councils from copying, publishing or distributing copyrighted plans or consultants' reports without permission from the author.

The NSW Government Information (Public Access) Act 2009 requires councils to provide copies of DA plans to the public and publish them on their websites and most still do, apparently unaware of the Crown Solicitor's advice. The Department of Planning is also still publishing copyrighted planning documents online.
The Crown Solicitor's advice states documents can only be "viewed" at council premises, not copied, and that they cannot be published on council websites.
The Office of the Information Commissioner told councils of the Crown Solicitor's advice a year ago but most are still publishing DA documents on their websites and copying or emailing documents.
"Copyright was an issue before the GIPA Act of which councils should have been aware but it became a hot topic because of the requirement under the act for councils to publish DAs on their websites," a spokeswoman said.
Most councils do not provide floor plans of residential dwellings but do provide other plans and environmental reports. Resident groups need such documents to challenge their findings.
"If the council cannot provide hard or electronic copies of plans then people wishing to review applications and make submissions would have to sit at the council for a full day or more reading perhaps hundreds of pages of reports and plans," said one planner.
No consultant should have any need to claim copyright and exclude public scrutiny of their work on behalf of developers. And only developers with something to hide would want to avoid scrutiny behind copyright laws.
"The law needs to be changed to require applicants, architects, planners and other experts to sign a copyright waiver when lodging a DA with a council," the planner said.
A spokesman for the department said it was a matter for councils how the advice was interpreted and implemented.




Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/it-pro/government-it/copyright-law-to-stop-councils-posting-das-online-20120403-1w9si.html#ixzz1qwdbgRs1

^^ Being a commercial artist myself, I do understand the copyright angle they're getting at, but I think that public access to the plans are a much more important requirement. There needs to be transparency in major developments, particularly to the people these developments might impact. As it says at the bottom of the article: "No consultant should have any need to claim copyright and exclude public scrutiny of their work on behalf of developers. And only developers with something to hide would want to avoid scrutiny behind copyright laws."

The owner of the Village twin, Dare Power, has a fantastic approved DA to not only rebuild the rear cinema, but to also include outdoor dining and function space on the property. The DA is on Pd online. I highly recommend you take a look as the architect has done a superior job.

I get the impression Mr. Power is just waiting for the economy to improve. Im sorry brizrulz, but I think this is one of the few cases of a developer doing the right thing by a heritage place.

The proposal for the Village Twin is indeed brilliant and I'm eagerly awaiting to see it finished. He is going to a lot of trouble to make the Twin better than ever.

Unfortunately, the hold up I believe is that Mr Power is having trouble getting the additional finance he requires to complete the project. The partial demolition works weren't planned (they were required because building works done back in the 70s weren't structurally sound) and so his finances took a substantial hit because of the demolition costs. I really hope he can find the money.

Copyright law to stop councils posting DAs online

Harvey Grennan

April 3, 2012 - 12:33PM



http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2012/04/03/3185300/LT-DAs-art-420x0.jpg
What will happen if councils can no longer display plans and reports on their websites? Photo: Tamara Dean


Usefulness of DA tracking websites at risk following Crown Solicitor's advice.
Residents protesting against developments in their neighbourhood may no longer be able to obtain plans and documents from their council, making it difficult to frame formal objections.
And councils that have spent millions of dollars on electronic DA tracking systems to make the planning process more open and transparent will no longer be able to post the documents online.
While the public is entitled to access development applications and related documents under state freedom of information laws and the Planning Act, the Crown Solicitor has advised that the federal Copyright Act prevents councils from copying, publishing or distributing copyrighted plans or consultants' reports without permission from the author.

The NSW Government Information (Public Access) Act 2009 requires councils to provide copies of DA plans to the public and publish them on their websites and most still do, apparently unaware of the Crown Solicitor's advice. The Department of Planning is also still publishing copyrighted planning documents online.
The Crown Solicitor's advice states documents can only be "viewed" at council premises, not copied, and that they cannot be published on council websites.
The Office of the Information Commissioner told councils of the Crown Solicitor's advice a year ago but most are still publishing DA documents on their websites and copying or emailing documents.
"Copyright was an issue before the GIPA Act of which councils should have been aware but it became a hot topic because of the requirement under the act for councils to publish DAs on their websites," a spokeswoman said.
Most councils do not provide floor plans of residential dwellings but do provide other plans and environmental reports. Resident groups need such documents to challenge their findings.
"If the council cannot provide hard or electronic copies of plans then people wishing to review applications and make submissions would have to sit at the council for a full day or more reading perhaps hundreds of pages of reports and plans," said one planner.
No consultant should have any need to claim copyright and exclude public scrutiny of their work on behalf of developers. And only developers with something to hide would want to avoid scrutiny behind copyright laws.
"The law needs to be changed to require applicants, architects, planners and other experts to sign a copyright waiver when lodging a DA with a council," the planner said.
A spokesman for the department said it was a matter for councils how the advice was interpreted and implemented.




Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/it-pro/government-it/copyright-law-to-stop-councils-posting-das-online-20120403-1w9si.html#ixzz1qwdbgRs1

This seems to be for NSW...

This seems to be for NSW...

copyright law doesnt change from state to state but local council laws and conditions might

Solution to supposed copyright problem is to require the DA application to be accompanied by consent to publish the plans.

I am no particular fan of the Victory given it has basically been wrecked already, but a 5 story concrete drinking box? No way will it be classy, it will be horrible.

Agreed.
I disagree. I find the interior of the Victory much more culturally significant than the exterior. The current external appearance bears minimal resemblance to anything that should be retained.

From my understanding, the staircases is heritage listed (along with a few internal elements) and not much else. The rest of the building may as well have been built in the 90s. I say that because in light of the modern renovations, there's very little visible heritage consideration remaining externally.

I disagree. I find the interior of the Victory much more culturally significant than the exterior. The current external appearance bears minimal resemblance to anything that should be retained.

From my understanding, the staircases is heritage listed (along with a few internal elements) and not much else. The rest of the building may as well have been built in the 90s. I say that because in light of the modern renovations, there's very little visible heritage consideration remaining externally.

You're disagreeing with me on the wrong thing. My point was that a building should be treasured for not only it's structure, but also about it's past use.

Yet another window came crashing off Water Front Place today. Heard a huge smash and everyone in the office rushed to the windows.

The canopy is being put to good use lol.

Yet another window came crashing off Water Front Place today. Heard a huge smash and everyone in the office rushed to the windows.

The canopy is being put to good use lol.

:lol:
Id love for someone to give me a clear explanation for why this keeps on happening

^^ Apparently its a fault in the tower's design. The material which binds the windows on was manufactured in Germany and thus they didn't think about the different climate we have. If WFP was in a colder climate, it probably wouldn't happen. (Thats one story i've heard)

^^ Apparently its a fault in the tower's design. The material which binds the windows on was manufactured in Germany and thus they didn't think about the different climate we have. If WFP was in a colder climate, it probably wouldn't happen. (Thats one story i've heard)

the canpoy must have cost a fortune. i bet its cheaper than paying out a few neglicant death compo payments though. do they have aa plan to reglaze?

They probably consider it cheaper and easier just to replace panels as they fail, provided there's adequate protection for pedestrians below (compo costs would rack up very quickly).

Speaking of Waterfront Place, is Naldham House still a part of the overall complex, or is it owned separately?

on reflection, it's pretty amazing that BCC has let the owner use a "bandaid" fix by installing a bunch of barriers on BCC property and making the building and surrounding streets look like crap. why didn't they force the owner to fix the problem?

yeah but when someone gets seriously injured or killed, then everyone will be up in arms about it and the questions will be raised why WFP was allowed to install and continue with this bandaid solution. But for now... it's business as usual.

Waterfront Place isn't the only building in the CBD where this happens. It's a fairly common (not regular) occurence for many buildings across the world.

i understand that risk, but no other building is deemed such high risk that it needs extensive barriers to protect pedestrians.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wgy-EGJovhw#!

Not quite sure where to post this, but I thought it was rather interesting and worth the share! Enjoy. "City in the Sun" Brisbane in the 1950s

That is brilliant! I can't believe how much I recognised.

Kind of made me feel as though they were advertising a retirement home though...

I would have killed myself if I had to have lived there. LOL at the "nightlife"

Solution to supposed copyright problem is to require the DA application to be accompanied by consent to publish the plans.

That would never work because it is a simple and logical solution:)

this is interesting:

http://www.bath.ac.uk/cwct/cladding_org/icbest97/paper10.pdf

the company that did the facade for waterfront place tried to sue the builder and place the blame on the BMU's, i dont think they had much luck with that..

reading the article you can see BCC did what they could with their options, you can also see how they arrived at the current outcome.

a facade is expensive enough as it is even when mass produced and installed in a productive manner during construction, having to go back and replace it would be stunning expense and impact on the building's visual appearance and on the tenants.

DA for Costco Northlakes site online .. once approved they are aiming for a December opening date.

Source: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188341105542/

and .. http://pdonline.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/Modules/common/default.aspx?page=disclaimer

It will be the first Costco in Australia to have its own petrol station .. common in the states but not here yet.

I would have killed myself if I had to have lived there. LOL at the "nightlife"

Hey, I think it would be kinda cool. A little bit "Mad Men". If we were born circa 1930, it would be the done thing for a Friday night I'm sure. That said, it's Surfers Paradise circa 1960s that I would really love to go back in time to experience!

DA for Costco Northlakes site online .. once approved they are aiming for a December opening date.

Source: http://www.facebook.com/groups/188341105542/

and .. http://pdonline.moretonbay.qld.gov.au/Modules/common/default.aspx?page=disclaimer

It will be the first Costco in Australia to have its own petrol station .. common in the states but not here yet.

Thanks bne - I have been looking for this for a while.

Further Details:
2012 / 26553 / DA - Development Application
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4564/59767891.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/5998/35900041.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1213/15989121.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8519/49561392.jpg

Loved the video, as much as I like old pictures of Brisbane, film and people moving about, traffic, etc really brings it all to life. Wish I had a Tardis.

Some great city street views, and also nice seeing the Bellevue on a very tropical looking George Street.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/78910271@N06/7062962871/Eleven and a half months back I sent a series of emails to Tourism Queensland suggesting to extend SouthBank around the River. Wow, then the former Gov. released its SouthBank 2 plan. Fancy that. Of course it was nothing like my plan as you can see on the link above.
See link
My plan Included a large Coral Reef Museum, a Dreamtime Museum and an Opera House. The brown lines show a light rail system as well as a series of new Theaters to create a Mini West End/Broadway for Brisbane. Since the election of the LNP. This area will remain a cultral backwater. Shame :ohno: The Reef Museum I intended to be a World Class construction in the shape of a whale. An Icon for Brisbane.What do you all think? I think its a pity this wonderfull position may end up full of apartments. Some people may think im nuts :nuts: But it was just an idea :)

I have been working on what they would look like and will post soon

Can't see the images. They are broken links for me.

All fixed now

Is Northlakes the new Logan?

Is Northlakes the new Logan?

Yep, but not quite as bogan.

^^ Hmmm, that's debatable IMO :lol: It's more master-planned in any case.

Costco was either going to be opening in Logan or Northlakes, so with this one opening, I know where the second one will be. Northlakes catches the northern suburbs, and the Logan Hyperdome (rumoured) for the Southern suburbs.

Yep, but not quite as bogan.

:lol::lol: now now.

Costco should have really been closer to the city centre, but it will be a destination shopping place. Amazing, people whinge about going to a specialist for their health across town, but will happily drive to Northlakes to go to Costco:nuts:

:lol::lol: now now.

Costco should have really been closer to the city centre, but it will be a destination shopping place. Amazing, people whinge about going to a specialist for their health across town, but will happily drive to Northlakes to go to Costco:nuts:

There are no blocks of land big enough and close to the city that could hold a Costco .. besides traffic is already bad enough in the city and surrounding areas. Its better off being out in the suburbs.

And yes die hard costco fanatics like myself would even drive to the Gold Coast on a regular basis just to go.

:lol::lol: now now.

Costco should have really been closer to the city centre, but it will be a destination shopping place. Amazing, people whinge about going to a specialist for their health across town, but will happily drive to Northlakes to go to Costco:nuts:

^^Lol. I've never thought about it that way. But so true! Like people who drive across the city to get to Ikea at Logan.

just on that point, I despise ikea. The quality is pretty ordinary and the price isnt that much cheaper than other places. But worst of all is the shopping experience. They push you through hundreds of metres of winding floor space without little or no windows, ending up with the shopper disoriented. I am sure it is an intended ploy to increase sales.

By the time I am at the end, I just grab what I think I want just to get out of there. Because no doubt I have already been there for at least an hour just trying to get through to the end.

^^Lol. Of course it is. It's also designed to tire you out. Force you to stop in their restaurant (which is conveniently located halfway through the store) for refreshments. Also encourages people to stop and sit and look at things longer.

I agree about the quality and cost thing too. Really, for some of their furniture, you could go to Fantastic Furniture and get cheaper stuff that's just as good quality. I prefer it more so for some of their decorating (cheap wall prints) and utility items (like kitchen storage stuff).

FYI it's a recognised fact that by increasing a shoppers "dwell time", their spend increases as well. This is why places like McDonalds dispite being "Fast Food" have free WiFi, they want you to stay longer so you spend more.

Ikea has the benefit of a larger floor plate, so it's easier for them to get people to hang around for a longer time, or just get lost inside.

I haven't been through Ikea in ages, generally walk through the checkouts straight into the warehouse bit. You get a few blank looks but its not my problem, I want in and out.

There are no blocks of land big enough and close to the city that could hold a Costco .. besides traffic is already bad enough in the city and surrounding areas. Its better off being out in the suburbs.

And yes die hard costco fanatics like myself would even drive to the Gold Coast on a regular basis just to go.

The Airport still have plenty of land available just like the placement in other capital cities.

http://www.efficient.ws/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Equity-One-Acquires-22-Acre-Property-on-Long-Island-588x391.jpg

Yay! Concrete carparks and car dependancy! Northlakes will be an amazing place in a few years.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/78910271@N06/7062962871/Eleven and a half months back I sent a series of emails to Tourism Queensland suggesting to extend SouthBank around the River. Wow, then the former Gov. released its SouthBank 2 plan. Fancy that. Of course it was nothing like my plan as you can see on the link above.
See link
My plan Included a large Coral Reef Museum, a Dreamtime Museum and an Opera House. The brown lines show a light rail system as well as a series of new Theaters to create a Mini West End/Broadway for Brisbane. Since the election of the LNP. This area will remain a cultral backwater. Shame :ohno: The Reef Museum I intended to be a World Class construction in the shape of a whale. An Icon for Brisbane.What do you all think? I think its a pity this wonderfull position may end up full of apartments. Some people may think im nuts :nuts: But it was just an idea :)

I have been working on what they would look like and will post soon

Looks cool! A coral reef museum is an interesting idea, I like it.

Well I think it makes sense that Brisbane should have a Coral reef display of some sort since Queensland is the State that has the GBR. You think someone would have put two and two together by now. I recall the former Gov. were considering a number of tourism projects. A wish list of ten i believe it was. Pity they blew all the money. Another suggestion put forward was to cover many landmarks with solar LED lighting to make Brisbane a city of lights. Hence Santos city of lights was a spin off. Ideas that were touted was to cover the TV towers on Mt Cootha with LCD's and each one was to change colours.

The Airport still have plenty of land available just like the placement in other capital cities.

Well, Costco was in talks with the Brisbane Airport Corp for ages but but nothing came of it.

I'm guessing there next SEQ location will be on the South side .. the latest rumor is Logan.

^^ Yep, the Hyperdome has long been mooted as a location for a Costco. It's one of those stories that the local paper pulls out a few times a year when it's a slow news week.

The Hyperdome does apparently have a large, council-approved redevelopment in the wings, in part because future highway works will involve the resumption of part of the current home centre.

Well, Costco was in talks with the Brisbane Airport Corp for ages but but nothing came of it.

I'm guessing there next SEQ location will be on the South side .. the latest rumor is Logan.

But as others have said and what is on the net it is going to be North Lakes after all, not Logan.

Correct me people, but regardless unless Costco go broke the Brisbane Costco is on the way.

^^ bne's talking about the next Costco after the North Lakes one.

Logan is a no-brainer of a location really because it's midway between Brisbane and the GC, and as such has a huge catchment for a destination retailer. It's worked well for IKEA for decades (and I will admit, I do quite like IKEA. You just need to not be pulled in by their store layout tricks and find the shortcuts to get to where you want to quickly! And the $2 hotdogs were always a childhood favourite! :-P)

But as others have said and what is on the net it is going to be North Lakes after all, not Logan.

Correct me people, but regardless unless Costco go broke the Brisbane Costco is on the way.

As nathandavid88 already stated .. I was referring to Costco's next Brisbane location after Northlakes.

According to the DA documents we should be hearing about the approval for the site on April 20th.

I can't see why they would not approve it so yeah .. its looking very promising .. and after 3 years of rumours its nice to finally have a DA .. aspecially since Costco is very tight lipped about its new locations due to Coles and Woolies continually trying to hamper its growth in Australia.

....It's worked well for IKEA for decades (and I will admit, I do quite like IKEA. You just need to not be pulled in by their store layout tricks and find the shortcuts to get to where you want to quickly! And the $2 hotdogs were always a childhood favourite! :-P)

If you don't have kids and hate breeders who dordle, go on a Thursday or Friday night after 7:30.

Some interesting historical info here.

http://www.brisbanebeertours.com/brisbane-brewing-history/

As nathandavid88 already stated .. I was referring to Costco's next Brisbane location after Northlakes.

According to the DA documents we should be hearing about the approval for the site on April 20th.

I can't see why they would not approve it so yeah .. its looking very promising .. and after 3 years of rumours its nice to finally have a DA .. aspecially since Costco is very tight lipped about its new locations due to Coles and Woolies continually trying to hamper its growth in Australia.

Very good to hear bne.