Cottage Home (these pics are across the street from each other)
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20027.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20028.JPG

Random shot (behind an antique place at Michigan and Pine)
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20030.JPG

From Highland Park
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20031.JPG

Holy Cross
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20033.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20036.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20041.JPG

(Had to include this one)
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20040.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20042.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20044.JPG

Here it sits
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20046.JPG

(I took this out my car window)
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20047.JPG

Old and new
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20050.JPG

Almost done
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20052.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20054.JPG

Actually, the Spring Street location makes perfect sense. The developers of the Beilouny are developing a 10-story tower jest west of the Spring Street site, facing College. That is scheduled to break ground as soon as they move the equipment being used for Spring Street. College is going to be so awesome looking when this infill gets done.
Ok, so that will put Spring Street right in a pretty dense residential zone, which will be pretty cool. But now I question even more why someone would choose Spring Street: their choices will be a balcony with a view of the expressway or a view of a 10 story building.

Does anyone know the status of the Lincoln Park Place building and the rehab of the old industrial warehouse directly across the street. This is all proposed at 21st and Central in Fall Creek Place. The sings have been up for some time, but nothing has happened.
I drove by there a couple weeks ago and thought the same thing. Last I knew, there was a business still operating in the warehouse building, so maybe there's some holdup with them moving to a new space. I don't know what's going on with the other dev. I just checked their site and there's a lot more detail up there than there was before, such as this:

http://www.lincolnparkplace.net/images/site_plan.jpg

http://www.lincolnparkplace.net

Verizon music center up for sale

By Jeff Swiatek

The owner of Verizon Wireless Music Center in Noblesville has put the 203-acre property up for sale.

A sale could bring an end to concerts at the site, which contains a state-of-the-art amphitheater that has hosted many of the world's top entertainers.

The Indianapolis office of the national real estate company CB Richard Ellis is listing the property for sale today, said Nick Arterburn, a first vice president at CB Richard Ellis.

The seller, Los Angeles-based Live Nation, is the world's leading live entertainment company.

The area around the music center has become one of the Indianapolis area's hottest sites for new commercial development and Live Nation wants to take advantage of rising property values in the area, Arterburn said. "I think they are wanting to take advantage of all the positive things going on around it," he said.

Arterburn said "for sale" signs will go up on the property soon.

He said Live Nation is looking to sell the site to the top bidder, which may or may not be an entertainment company that would want to continue to operate the site as a concert venue. "We're not against selling it to another entertainment group...as long as they are the entity that pays us the most money."

If the site is sold for non-entertainment uses, such as an office park or retail shopping center, the amphitheater would likely be demolished, he said.

Arterburn said at the earliest it would probably take until summer to complete a sale. It was unclear whether planned concerts and other events would go on as scheduled throughout 2007.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061218/BUSINESS/61218037

Cottage Home (these pics are across the street from each other)
(Had to include this one)
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20040.JPG



That's Charlie's van. He owns a plumbing supply and rental store on Michigan and Eastern(?) street called "Houghton Miflin" or something like that. He's owned the same style van decorated the same way since I was a kid. He's got a fleet of old worn out ones he uses for parts. A Near Eastside institution really.

Cottage Home (these pics are across the street from each other)
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20027.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20028.JPG

Random shot (behind an antique place at Michigan and Pine)
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20030.JPG

From Highland Park
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20031.JPG

Holy Cross
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20033.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20036.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20041.JPG

(Had to include this one)
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20040.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20042.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20044.JPG

Here it sits
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20046.JPG

(I took this out my car window)
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20047.JPG

Old and new
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20050.JPG

Almost done
http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20052.JPG

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/dec_pic2/2006-12%20Indy%20Construction2%20054.JPG


Hey, you can't show those pictures! Remember, we don't have any old buildings or pretty architecture! Duh!:banana:

Verizon music center up for sale

By Jeff Swiatek

The owner of Verizon Wireless Music Center in Noblesville has put the 203-acre property up for sale.



Maybe an opportunity to build a new one downtown. That was the original idea years ago. If we had mass transit and a good downtown circulator system, this would be a great addition downtown. And it would be fantastic for dt businesses.

Maybe an opportunity to build a new one downtown. That was the original idea years ago. If we had mass transit and a good downtown circulator system, this would be a great addition downtown. And it would be fantastic for dt businesses.

With all the residential downtown now, an ampitheatre may be problematic because of the noise level. Perhaps in the White River State park area.. Perhaps on the site of the "other" Convention Center hotel proposal would be good.

With all the residential downtown now, an ampitheatre may be problematic because of the noise level. Perhaps in the White River State park area.. Perhaps on the site of the "other" Convention Center hotel proposal would be good.
Well, there is 'The Lawn' at White River State Park. The capacity isn't nearly as big as Deer Creek -- I think it holds about 10k -- but it's a cool place to see a show. Having the river as a back drop for the bowl is fantastic. I've seen 3 or 4 shows there the last two summers and they book probably 10 or 15 shows a summer.

edit: sorry, it's only 5k:

http://www.in.gov/whiteriver/lawn/index.html

I need to get to Indianapolis and spend a day there. Judging from the photos I-65 doesnt do it justice.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061218/BIZ01/612180318

Indy has what Cincy wants
Vibrant downtown has stores, arts, residents - and cooperation
BY JON NEWBERRY | JNEWBERRY@ENQUIRER.COM

INDIANAPOLIS - Hundreds of specialty retailers, restaurants and clubs. Dozens of theaters, museums, parks and sports venues. More than 5,000 hotel rooms. A huge convention center that's being expanded - again. Nearly 10,000 single-family homes, condos and apartments. A supermarket.

That's not just a wish list for downtown Cincinnati; it's what downtown Indianapolis already has.

Ten years after its $319 million Circle Centre shopping mall opened, downtown Indianapolis has a multitude of downtown workers, shoppers, residents and out-of-town visitors who bring these places to life and keep them in business.


That success comes from years of planning combined with billions in public and private money invested in a range of projects that feed on each other and the city's natural assets.

Like Cincinnati, those assets include a Midwest location attractive to national conventions. In Indy, a large convention center accommodates more than one major event at a time. Conventioneers patronize hotels, restaurants and stores.

"It's amazing. You get the big-city feel, but it's not like Chicago or New York. It's more homey," said Heather Sperry, a student at nearby Butler University.

Sperry and three friends were taking time off from studying to see Monument Circle in its holiday splendor last week. The women said they felt safe downtown, at least on well-lit Monument Circle, although at 10 o'clock on a cool Monday night there wasn't much activity.

Across the street, the Parisian department store at Circle Centre had just closed for the night. The four-story enclosed mall spans two downtown blocks and contains more than 100 shops, with Nordstrom at the other end.

The mall is connected by an extensive skywalk system to the 1.9 million-square-foot Indianapolis Convention Center and RCA Dome complex, where the hometown Colts will play the Bengals tonight.

Bengals fans flowing into town for tonight's game will find a city from which their hometown could learn a bit about downtown development, though growth here has come in fits and starts.

As Cincinnati winds up its $42 million renovation of its downtown centerpiece, Fountain Square, and moves slowly forward with a new developer on the riverfront Banks project, Indianapolis provides one nearby model for creating vitality in the urban core.

Compared with downtown Cincinnati's retail scene, Circle Centre is thriving, although according to annual reports filed with the city, vacancies rose and operating profits fell in 2005, both to their worst levels in five years.

But all around the mall, restaurants and nightclubs are open late into the night, with neon signs lighting Meridian Street from the circle to the Slippery Noodle blues club - which bills itself as Indiana's oldest bar - five blocks away on South Street.

National chains including Hard Rock Café, Buca di Beppo and Palomino join locally owned eateries such as St. Elmo Steak House and the renowned Shapiro's Delicatessen among more than 200 restaurants and bars downtown.

PLACES TO WORK AND LIVE

There's much more to downtown Indianapolis than the mall and the convention center. It also has Indiana's state capital, a big-city zoo, the 30,000-student campus of Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, a world-class medical research-and-hospital complex and several major corporate headquarters.

The latter include pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly and Co. and mall developer Simon Property Group Inc., which operates Circle Centre Mall and just moved into its new $55 million headquarters tower just south of the State Capitol.

But what makes this downtown so different from Cincinnati and most other similar-size U.S. cities, besides all the places to eat, drink and shop, is that there also are thousands of places to live.

Downtown - encompassing 6.5 square miles by the official definition that includes the IUPUI campus - has about 20,000 residents in several distinct neighborhoods or districts. Newly built and under-construction condominium and apartment projects - mostly townhouses and three- to four-story buildings - are scattered all over the northern half of downtown within a mile of Monument Circle.

Terry Sweeney, vice president for real estate development at Indianapolis Downtown Inc., said the growth and prosperity of the city's core has been a result of a civic-corporate partnership that goes back to the 1970s. That includes the development of Circle Centre, which opened in 1995 at a cost of $320 million, including $187 million in government-issued bonds and $75 million invested by 19 local corporations.

Those same corporations later funded much of the $183 million cost of Conseco Fieldhouse, the downtown home of the NBA's Indiana Pacers that opened in 1999, where the University of Cincinnati Bearcats played the Ohio State Buckeyes on Saturday."That is a microcosm of what goes on," Sweeney said.

Another catalyst for all the changes here was a tax ruling decades ago that ordered the Lilly Endowment, a foundation annually funded by Eli Lilly and Co., to start spending more of its money, said Ralph Gray, a retired IUPUI history professor. Downtown Indianapolis has been a major beneficiary of that largesse.

"They talk about the public-private collaboration," he said. "That's been the key."

Indianapolis, with a metro government that encompasses all of Marion County, has been an aggressive pump-primer to build convention business and establish itself as the amateur sports capital of the world. Most recently, it took an 8 percent equity stake in a super-luxury Conrad Hilton hotel that opened this year.

The city has found that its convention center, already at more than 400,000 square feet of exhibit space, isn't big enough: It awaits yet another expansion that will nearly double its size.

The $500 million Lucas Oil Stadium, the future home of the Colts, is being built a block south of the RCA Dome, which will be torn down to expand the convention center.

DEMAND FOR HOUSING

The recent upsurge in downtown residential development has been market driven, with no blanket public incentives to subsidize developers or buyers. Any public incentives are granted on a case-by-case basis, Sweeney said.

"Everything's right on your doorstep. That's what's driving demand," he said of the housing boom that added 2,400 units downtown between 1995 and 2005. Forty-five active projects should add another 1,750 units by 2010, he said.

Not every project has been a slam dunk. One Market Square, a proposed $100 million, 31-story condo tower that was supposed to be built on the former site of Market Square Arena, stalled when financing dried up after slow upfront sales. Three blocks east of Monument Circle, the site is now being used as a parking lot while the city mulls its options and talks to developers.

'I LIKE IT NOW'

At the Rathskellar Restaurant in the historic Athenaeum building, Talha Uzun had come downtown for a meeting of the Nationalities Council of Indiana Inc., a group that celebrates the area's ethnic diversity. The Athenaeum is a 19th century theater, now home to the American Cabaret Theatre, in the Massachusetts Avenue (known locally as "Mass Ave") arts and theater district.

Uzun, 29, works and lives in the northern suburbs but comes downtown often on business and to shop. He likens downtown Indianapolis, with its wide avenues, museums and monuments, to Washington, D.C., which is where he relocated from about two years ago.

"When I first came here I was seriously bored," said Uzun. "I like it now."

I know this is slightly off topic, but I really don't understand why so many people say we don't have any historical architecture downtown, I read some posts on the "Indy has what Cincy wants", and alot of Cincies, coulden't face the faqt that Indianapolis could have a more vibrant downtown,
I personally love DT Cincy, but when people make dumb statements like how one block of Cincy could take on the entire Indianapolis area, is just a dumb statement, since we have a much larger collection of cottages with yards.

I know this is slightly off topic, but I really don't understand why so many people say we don't have any historical architecture downtown, I read some posts on the "Indy has what Cincy wants", and alot of Cincies, coulden't face the faqt that Indianapolis could have a more vibrant downtown,
I personally love DT Cincy, but when people make dumb statements like how one block of Cincy could take on the entire Indianapolis area, is just a dumb statement, since we have a much larger collection of cottages with yards.
That thread very quickly (and predictably) devolved into a pissing contest. Don't take too much from it. There's an unfortunate fact that many, many people don't have a flippin' clue what Indy is like but assume they do based on very outdated information. When those arguments start happening, I just ignore them because you're not going to convince anyone.

That thread very quickly (and predictably) devolved into a pissing contest. Don't take too much from it. There's an unfortunate fact that many, many people don't have a flippin' clue what Indy is like but assume they do based on very outdated information. When those arguments start happening, I just ignore them because you're not going to convince anyone.Hey thanks for the advice, I'll keep that in mind.

I was downtown for the Colts game last night... the city looks amazing when they light everything up for monday night football. loved it. the simon building had a horseshoe outlined in lit windows, looked pretty nice.

from IBJ...

-----

City chooses JW Marriott hotel for downtown
Tue, Dec 19 - 2006
Cory Schouten
IBJ staff

A sprawling complex of five hotels including an 800-room JW Marriott near White River State Park has won the city’s blessing for a new convention headquarters hotel.

The $250-million project, which includes more than 1,500 rooms, is proposed by a partnership of Merrillville-based White Lodging Services Corp. and Indianapolis-based REI Real Estate Services.

The city is expected to offer rich incentives for the project, which is set to open to coincide with the 2010 opening of a $275 million expansion of the Indiana Convention Center.

The other finalist proposal, a partnership of Indianapolis-based Browning Investments Inc. and Milwaukee-based hotelier Marcus Corp, called for a 44-story InterContinental Hotel tower on Pan Am Plaza.

The committee, appointed by Myaor Bart Peterson, has been meeting with two potential development teams since early December, when a third team proposing an expansion of the Westin Indianapolis dropped out of the running.

The committee met this afternoon to finalize their recommendation to Peterson. He is expected to follow their recommendation.

You're fucking kidding me. HOW STUPID IS THIS CITY?

If this is true, almost all the positive steps the city has taken in terms of development over the years have been taken out by this proposal. This proposal looks like something you would find in the suburbs; the design is 1980s and WHY ARE WE CHOSING THIS PROPOSAL FOR THE CONVENTION CENTER HOTEL? DOES IT NOT OCCUR TO THE PEOPLE ON THAT COUNCIL THAT THE OTHER PROPOSAL IS CLOSER TO THE CONVENTION CENTER? I'm sorry for typing in caps, but I can't even express how much anger I have for the decision.

And now I find out AI isn't coming to the Pacers. Could this day get any worse?

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!

DAMN IT ALL TO HELL!!!

I was having a shit day and now it is totally shitty.

Horray for another limestone box. This is just stupid stupid stupid. I knew that the City would do this. I mean, can't we get a proper highrise built? I am so sick of this 250' crap. This will do nothing for downtown. This will only benefit people that don't live here. "A complex of buildings!" Fantastic, more of the suburbs downotwn. This ought to look as appealing as the existing "complex" on the Canal. I mean, why not use EIFS or hardy plank as the promary product. Hopefully we will get a 1,000-space surface lot too...

I would almost bet that the reason the HI wasn't chosen was because it blocked the precious view from LOS of our lovely & BORING skyline.

This is what baffles me, didn't Marriott say they were going to build the hotel regardless of what the city said? If that's true, why is the city giving them incentives to build the project when they were going to build it anyways?

well dammit to holy Jesus hell:ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :nuts: :nuts:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! *rips out own eyes*
NO FREGIN WAY! I THINK I SHIT MYSELF!
NO WAY! NO FREGIN WAY! NOOOOOO WAY! THOSE FREGIN HIDIOUSE THINGS ARE GONNA RUIN OUR BEAUTIFUL DOWNTOWN! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
WHAT THE HECK IS THE CITY COUNCIL THINKING?
THE IC WOULD HAVE TOTTALLY HELPED DOWNTOWN BIG TIME, NOT TO MENTION UNION STATION!
I CAN'T BELIVE IT! MORE UGLY SUBURBIAN SHIT STRUCTURES!

Please excuse my sudden panic attack, for I am really dissapointed,first the market square arena, and now this?! Something tells me we need a new city council, for the one we have is taking us no where!
I can't belive this! The new IC would have helped downtown so much!
It would help the Skyline aswell,
its so depressing, I can't belive it, if they chose it becuase they wanted a clear view of the skyline, then there completely out of there minds! Not everything depends on looks people! Will these shitty new hotels help downtown gain more development?
No, no probably not, jeesh, the city council is dodging all the good oppurtunities, I can't belive this, I really cant,
please excuse me while I go take a bath in ice cold water.

This:

http://216.37.43.172/ibjcms/userfiles/Marriott_1(5).jpg

Over this:

http://216.37.43.172/ibjcms/userfiles/InterCon_1(6).jpg

My god! How could they?
*bashes face into desk*
hell, that was an oppurtunity they would so rarely get! Something so high, something so effective to the skyline!
I can't belive it.

Ok, I've been sitting here trying to think about this in a rational way (and not put my fist through the monitor) and for the life of me and cannot come up with a single, HONEST reason why this committee of morons would decide they would like to see what appears to be a giant marshmallow built in WRSP. Maybe to make you hungry so you buy concessions while at Victory Field?

So...now what? The mayor still can disregard the committee's choice. Though he'd probably rather shoot himself in the foot first. But I'm trying to be an optimist here. What can we do to let our elected leaders know how pissed we all are? Email? Write, fax, call? (did anyone else's email to the mayor from their website get bounced back to them?)

whats next?
Tear down the scottish rite cathedral for the library parking lot?!
I think we should have a protest and stop construction of this nasty thing, like, I dunno doing a human chain around what ever parking lot or lot it is being built on.

(did anyone else's email to the mayor from their website get bounced back to them?)
Yes. Good to know the mayor cares enough about public input to keep his comments/email system working.

I commend you SkywalkrSnd, I'm too flabbergasted by this decision to think rationally right now.

I can't believe I was naive enough to even think for a second that the City of Indianapolis would make the right choice. When I heard this on the way home from work, it was a good thing I was off of the interstate or I might have veered into the path of a semi.

When will we know which council members voted for this piece of shit to be constructed over the Intercontinental? I will never vote for any of them, endorse any of their campaigns, support their businesses, etc, ever. I think I will also boycott Mariott permanently.

Can we take any solace in the fact that they will add 200 more rooms to the main hotel? Probably not, they'll just build outward instead of upward. Hell, there's still a bit of blue sky over left field at the ballpark that they could block with their giant boxy piece of garbage.

I've now lost all hope that Indianapolis will ever see another skyscraper of significant height get constructed again. The Penn Tower? It'll never happen? OMS? They'll just put another Firehouse Square there. I guess our skyline will continue to stagnate while our peer cities grow and leave us behind. What a terrible day for the city.

What a terrible day for the city.

Indeed.

Looks like indystar.com has finally updated their website with the story (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061219/BUSINESS/61219031). Might I suggest we all post our feelings there on their story forums as well. More people will read that site than even know about this one. Hell, some city leaders might even read it. But "breathe" before you type. We don't want it turning into mad house.

Oh, and if you want to get more depressed, check out http://www.browninginvestments.com/intercontinental.php and click on "Download Press Kit" to get a nice little PDF of what our city has decided is does NOT want.

Ahhhh, Mediocrity. Back in town again.

What happened to that Indy-Cincy downtown thread. Anybody know. I assume it started getting too nasty and the mods deleted it.

http://216.37.43.172/ibjcms/userfiles/Marriott_1(5).jpg
Everytime I attend an Indians game, drive by this POS on Washington, or view this skyline from the Canal with this ugly monstrocity blocking the view, I'm going to think about the plain stupidity of the city.

CBS local news just reported that the Marriott proposal was selected because they asked for fewer incentives from the city.

http://www.browninginvestments.com/media/images/intercontinental_main_2.jpg

I'm at a loss of words, there is no reason this should not have been picked.

Politics, how sad, I'm just glad Mr. Billionaire gets to leave his mark on downtown Indy, its just a shame that legacy is a piece of crap. But, at least the community will get to smell it and look at it for years to come. Don't expect the Mayor to overturn this, the politics are apparently really big for this project. Interesting that there seemed to be very little press information on how this project was chosen. That is usually a good sign that a committee did what they were told and that about all.

I just saw the article on indystar.com. It looks like Indy is going to position itself well for future conventions. I know it's already a huge spot for conventions, but having an 800-1000 room hotel right there, with another 3 smaller ones right by it is going to be impressive. I can understand not liking the design, but at least you're getting the hotel and expanded convention center. Maybe it'll turn out to be nicer than the rendering.

Here's another rendering of it that I pulled from Browning's proposal:

http://mypage.iu.edu/~ccorr/hotel.JPG

GODDAMNIT!!

So the one they chose will be 25 stories. How many stories would the other one have been?

^

Oh
my
God.

Please, is there any way that both of the projects could get built?

I was reading the comments on IndyStar's talk back, someone said that Channel 13 said the Mariott was chosen due to the fact it would be done by 2010. If that's the reason, than I'm even more pissed off.

BTW - The reaction by most people at the Star is overwhelmingly negative. That's a good sign.

Nice avatar Naptown.

I think someone may have said this a week or so ago, but I'll bring it up again: I wonder if the large number of condos in the Intercontinental was a knock against it. The committee may have been nervous about future prospects at OMS if there were already a number of high rise condos on the market.

kcmetro: the Intercontinental would have had 44 floors.

^ Out of curiosity, what was the room/condo ratio at the IC compared to the Conrad?

I am so pissed that my money is going to an uninspired design! You know, I would like this much more if the design was top-notch instead of what is proposed. Secondly, this site does nothing for the over all downtown. West Street may as well be a damn interstate the way it isolates the west side of downtown!

I am disgusted.

there isn't ONE compliment on the Indy Star page. of the 41 comments posted, everyone is pissed!

i saw the story on channel 13 and could NOT believe it! Food literally dropped from my mouth... and yes the PITIFUL excuse is the date in which it will be finished. "The reason we chose the marriott is so it will be done by 2010" i was SO mad when i saw it... I was explaining it to my parents but they didnt care too much

i saw the story on channel 13 and could NOT believe it! Food literally dropped from my mouth... and yes the PITIFUL excuse is the date in which it will be finished. "The reason we chose the marriott is so it will be done by 2010" i was SO mad when i saw it... I was explaining it to my parents but they didnt care too much
Agreed. Didn't we just host a Final Four without this hotel? Why is it so damned important to have this hotel for the next Final Four in 2010?

I understand that they want it to be done for the convention center expansion opening, but what does it matter if the hotel opens 6 months after the convention center if the other hotel is better for the city in the long run?

So shortsighted.

Here are my comments to the Mayor:

Mr. Mayor-

I can't help but feel extremely let-down by the choice for the new convention hotel. I know that there may be issues such as timing that are important, but this choice is second-rate in both design and location. This is a SUBURBAN hotel complex that woud be fitting at the airport, not downtown. This project will not relate to its surroundings at all. West Street may as well be an interstate the way it isolates everything on the west side. The people visiting Indy and staying here will stay at this complex before venturing to places such as Circle Centre or Meridian Street. Further, could the design be anymore boring? If tax dollars are going to this, why doesn't the City demand a great design? This is forgetable and will be duplicated across the midwest. Why does this City continue to throw money at uninspired designs? Indy will never fully grow-up until we demand more of the developers doing work here. The IndyStar message board unanimously dislikes this design. Skyscraper enthusiasts are laughing at Indianapolis, yet again, on choosing a second-rate design. The City had a real opportunity and it appears as if it has let it slip away again!

Thank you for you time,
Cory Wilson
City/Land Use Planner

where do we find the mayor's e-mail address?

where do we find the mayor's e-mail address?
http://www.indygov.org/eGov/Mayor/contact.htm

Ok, I've been sitting here trying to think about this in a rational way (and not put my fist through the monitor) and for the life of me and cannot come up with a single, HONEST reason why this committee of morons would decide they would like to see what appears to be a giant marshmallow built in WRSP. Maybe to make you hungry so you buy concessions while at Victory Field?

So...now what? The mayor still can disregard the committee's choice. Though he'd probably rather shoot himself in the foot first. But I'm trying to be an optimist here. What can we do to let our elected leaders know how pissed we all are? Email? Write, fax, call? (did anyone else's email to the mayor from their website get bounced back to them?)

First off, the design of the winning proposal sucks. Whiteco is the most unimaginative, uncreative company when it comes to design.

Part of the problem with the Browning proposal was that he does not have control of the parking garage. I'm sure this factored heavily into the committee's decision. I'm not sure why the committee couldn't have given Browning three months to secure control of the garage and have Whiteco in the wings - three months or more wouldn't kill the project timeline.

Second, the Mayor is deflecting criticism by having the "committee" make the decision. He needs to step up to the plate and make his own decision. Several of the committee members are clueless about development, much less downtown development.

If we are truly struck with this proposal, then the least that could be done is to require a redesign. And we've seen what that ha accomplshed before (Simon building).

I e-mailed the mayor... maybe a flood of e-mails will help him realize the panel's decision is the wrong one.

I e-mailed as well with the link to the IndyStar forum. I think this is a huge PR mistake for the Mayor and the city.

Sorry guys to sound like a troll, but since I've moved here from Chicago I've always seen Indy as a second rate city. I was beginning to have hope but well.....nevermind, IT IS A SECOND RATE CITY! I am so glad I'll be moving back to a world class city in a year.:ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

I just emailed him as well.

I guess I will never get my hopes up for any future highrise projects until the shovels hit the dirt.

Now that I've managed to stop puking, I'll post my 2 cents.

This horrible news is actually good news for the Penn Tower. Yes, that project is very much alive and moving forward. However, I don't see a 2008 construction end date any longer. Not because of any problems, but because of a massive redesign and an expansion of the project. I have seen some of the latest plans, and while height is not settled, height is dependent on the amount of condos, lofts and penthouses to be included in the final design. the failure of the HI and OMS is impetus to put more condos in Penn tower, and likely will raise the final height. I have spoken to the principal people involved in the project, and they have made comments to that effect.

Nothing of the new designs have been submitted to the city, but a great deal of care is being taken to satisfy historical limitations due to location and ensure that the city will accept the design with little or no hesitation. The tower looks more like a mini Empire State Building with spire right now, rather than the previous "Chicago School" design, but as I've stated previously, this can and likely will change. Materials for cladding haven't been decided on yet, so I don't know if it'll still be red brick. The Omega building, which was originally to be restored or added to the project in a "facadism" way will now be torn down.

A Chicago developer with national or even international renown has been added to the project, but I can't and won't name names. Suffice it to say that funding is no longer an issue. It wasn't much of an issue to begin with really.

That's all I can stomach writing right now. I don't think I have anything to add that hasn't been expressed by others here concerning this pitiful decision by the city.

Since we will not get the IC and its 45 stories and we will not get a building on the Market Square site until the next decade, our only hope for a new tall in Indy is Penn Tower? Any updates on this?

Also, is there anyway that Browning goes it alone without the city's financial help and would the other hotels want him to with even more rooms.

I was preparing my post and did not see Moochie's post until after I sent mine.:)

Now that I've managed to stop puking, I'll post my 2 cents.

This horrible news is actually good news for the Penn Tower. Yes, that project is very much alive and moving forward. However, I don't see a 2008 construction end date any longer. Not because of any problems, but because of a massive redesign and an expansion of the project. I have seen some of the latest plans, and while height is not settled, height is dependent on the amount of condos, lofts and penthouses to be included in the final design. the failure of the HI and OMS is impetus to put more condos in Penn tower, and likely will raise the final height. I have spoken to the principal people involved in the project, and they have made comments to that effect.

Nothing of the new designs have been submitted to the city, but a great deal of care is being taken to satisfy historical limitations due to location and ensure that the city will accept the design with little or no hesitation. The tower looks more like a mini Empire State Building with spire right now, rather than the previous "Chicago School" design, but as I've stated previously, this can and likely will change. Materials for cladding haven't been decided on yet, so I don't know if it'll still be red brick. The Omega building, which was originally to be restored or added to the project in a "facadism" way will now be torn down.

A Chicago developer with national or even international renown has been added to the project, but I can't and won't name names. Suffice it to say that funding is no longer an issue. It wasn't much of an issue to begin with really.

That's all I can stomach writing right now. I don't think I have anything to add that hasn't been expressed by others here concerning this pitiful decision by the city.


Thanks for the Penn Tower update. That helps take the sting of the horrible news away, if only a little bit. I hope Penn Tower is 600+ feet when it is completed.

As for Browing, does anyone have an email address for him/his consortium? Perhaps we can encourage him to work with Intercontinental on moving forward with their proposal, and even point him towards all the feedback on the Indystar boards. I'd love to see the IH get built and operating before the Marriot.

The message count at Indystar.com is now over 90 and counting and not one positive response.

Of course it will not matter as this is a done deal.

The mayor was just elected as President of the League of Cities. This decision will look good on his resume.

This complex of hotels will match up really good with the other suburban hotels that Dora is building next to LOS.

You know, I really have to laugh at some of the comments I've been reading in this thread. I mean, you guys in Indianapolis are only bellyaching because it's not going to be a 44-story tower. I'm willing to bet if the Marriott proposal was taller, you wouldn't really care what the design looked like. Well, HELLOOOOOOO - at least you guys already have a tower downtown that is taller than 800'. We here in Cincinnati can only salivate at the thoughts of something that tall. As it is, Queen City Square 2 probably won't be built anytime soon - if at all - and it certainly won't be anything close to what you guys already have. And what's this Penn Tower I'm reading about? Possibly 600'? Quit your whining. There is STILL a whole heck of a lot of land around downtown Indy where you guys can squeeze in a number of towering skyscrapers in the future years. In the meantime, Cincinnati is stuck with what it has, and there is little room left to build anything taller than the piddly 574' Carew Tower that is gloated over here. As it is, another prime piece of downtown real estate is being wasted on nothing but a 25-story condo tower here. So shut your traps and be glad you have what you do. Indianapolis is a great city, and has so much more potential for a towering skyline than Cincinnati ever will have.

You know, I really have to laugh at some of the comments I've been reading in this thread. I mean, you guys in Indianapolis are only bellyaching because it's not going to be a 44-story tower. I'm willing to bet if the Marriott proposal was taller, you wouldn't really care what the design looked like. Well, HELLOOOOOOO - at least you guys already have a tower downtown that is taller than 800'. We here in Cincinnati can only salivate at the thoughts of something that tall. As it is, Queen City Square 2 probably won't be built anytime soon - if at all - and it certainly won't be anything close to what you guys already have. And what's this Penn Tower I'm reading about? Possibly 600'? Quit your whining. There is STILL a whole heck of a lot of land around downtown Indy where you guys can squeeze in a number of towering skyscrapers in the future years. In the meantime, Cincinnati is stuck with what it has, and there is little room left to build anything taller than the piddly 574' Carew Tower that is gloated over here. As it is, another prime piece of downtown real estate is being wasted on nothing but a 25-story condo tower here. So shut your traps and be glad you have what you do. Indianapolis is a great city, and has so much more potential for a towering skyline than Cincinnati ever will have.

I appreciate the sentiment, but our objections are about more than just a lackluster design and height. This project will actually hurt downtown. A complex like this encourages convention visitors to stay in their hotel and spend dollars that would normally go to downtown retail and businesses. This is a thousand hotel rooms filled with people that will go to the hotel, go to their convention, and possibly nowhere else. The HI proposal would guarantee that these conventioneers would spread out into downtown, increase streetlife and visit other attractions. There is nothing good about this decision.

If I were from Indy, I'd be pissed too. That hotel design is downright terrible. I've seen better hotel designs in the suburbs.

i went to the game on monday and just looking a little south and west towards lucas oil.. i am getting really excited about it... its really taking shape.. and as of just a couple of minutes ago. i didn't know they chose the westin project... and i am really unexcited now... i will do anything to stop this process.. i will stand on the ground the westin thing will be built on.. that just makes me want to cry kind of.. i feel like indy has failed me and well us again... blahh...why couldn't one of us more architectually conscious persons be mayor...lol fuck bart...

Absolutely one of the worst decisions made in the history of planning & development in the city. This is an outrage of bad politics, bad location, poor design, and worst of all... weak, unimaginative city leaders. I do not live in Indy anymore and I am now outraged. I left years ago to attend school on the West Coast and stayed. After giving some thought of returning some day due to signs of emerging progressive and interesting developments, this decision alone has altered any of those previous thoughts. I think that CWWilson made the call weeks ago on this forum that the Marriot site could very well be chosen. The location of this bland, weak, suburban complex of hotels located far from the city core will do very little to help create a vital and rich dense urban fabric where it is needed most - in the center of the mile square. It's not only about banal design and lack of height. Opportunities like this one only present themselves within decades of wait and wish. There will not be another opportunity like this one for many decades to come, and not in the form of a True Headquaters Hotel. The only worse decision to come could be the Commerce Connector which would only draw more people and intersting development even further away from the city central. There are strong parallels. Why can't Indy grow and develop in similar fashion to great emerging cities such as Austin, Portland and Charlotte? What about smart planning / mass transit, sustainable growth all withing walking distance of already well established venues and attractions? What a waste. Now I am not even looking forward to visiting family and friends in the future. Now, like many people, I'll just choose to spend time in a more innovative place. Thats my sorry-ass 2 cents worth. Good luck Indy at getting those baby-steps of momentum of smart planning back. THis is NOT for the citizens, but for car oriented out-of-towners who can also play in the waterpark with kids. It could have been so much more. I am dumbfounded by this decision.

I appreciate the sentiment, but our objections are about more than just a lackluster design and height. This project will actually hurt downtown. A complex like this encourages convention visitors to stay in their hotel and spend dollars that would normally go to downtown retail and businesses. This is a thousand hotel rooms filled with people that will go to the hotel, go to their convention, and possibly nowhere else. The HI proposal would guarantee that these conventioneers would spread out into downtown, increase streetlife and visit other attractions. There is nothing good about this decision.

Moochie,

I completely agree with your comments. Obviously, the members of this committee don't understand the value of urbanity. The proposal that they chose will be a self-contained family fun park. The Intercontinental would have contributed to downtown and would have been all about the, “downtown experience.”

In my opinion, the southwest quadrant of Indy is a wasteland. It is mostly dominated by the RCA Dome and the Convention Center. The street grid has been destroyed which has resulted in an uncomplex and uninteresting section of the city. In addition, all of the north-south traffic has been diverted onto West Street which has resulted in a street that is an ugly, automobile-centric arterial. To make matters worse, the city has heavily supported two other hotels in the area which are uninteresting, uninspired, inward looking pieces of crap (the Westin and the Marrot). Both of those hotels are set back off of Washington street, the very street that they should have embraced. My point is that the Whitco proposal probably doesn’t embrace Washington Street and will provide a crappy urban environment for people to experience the city.

I'm really disappointed!!!

I guess I just assumed that the decision was so obvious that it really didn't warrant my full attention. Now I wish I would have gone to that public meeting a while back.

Will Bart Peterson disappoint me again? Will he follow the recommendations of this committee? I'm sure he will. I helped vote him into office years ago and since that time, he has consistently demonstrated a lack of understanding with regard to urban planning and development issues.

Please Mayor Peterson, consider the committees recommendations and then make up your own mind! What proposal do you really think makes the most sense for our city?

I just wrote a note to the mayor and suggest that all of you do the same. Tell of of your friends and family to express their oppinions as well.

http://www.indygov.org/eGov/Mayor/contact.htm

I just wrote an email to the mayor. I understand the "economical" and "political" reasonings behind this decision....but come on, we've worked way too hard to come as far as we have. We have positioned ourselves to become a city that should be happy about this decision, and should be upset. I'm not saying that the Hotel IC was the best use of land. I like Pan Am Plaza, and as much as i'd LOVE to see a 44-story tower go up, public space is just as important to a city. Couldn't the hotel IC have been located somewhere else, perhaps a block south, or even incorporated into Union Station. Also, if we choose to accept the Marriott proposal, since public monies are being pumped into this project, which was going to proceed no matter what, shouldn't the great city of Indianapolis demand even a little better design. My only hope is that this is a rough proposal and that a better product will come out of this. For instance, look at the hotel IC. I mean, it was a great vision, but the renderings were completely out-of-scale, which leads me to believe that these were renderings thrown together to meet a deadline, and that there is a lot of room for flexibility in design. Please, everyone, email Mayor Peterson your opinions!

In the 3rd sentence, i meant shouldN'T be happy....sorry

i like how some of the comments on the indy star page forum are saying we are only mad because we're liberals or something. interesting comments. And as for the comments in here about the whining, i dont understand why you come in this forum if you don't like the posts and discussions. We all believe Indianapolis deserves to keep growing UP. Why should we not want that just because you think cinci is shorter and crapier? What an interesting stance that has been taken.

I am absolutely speechless! This committee owes it to the public to explain in detail how they came to this decision. I also think this has something to do with OMS. Maybe the mayor was concerned that his "legacy project" would be hurt by the number of condos in the HI. And I agree that a redesign should be demanded!

From the Indy star:

The Marriott hotel that gets built is likely to be significantly bigger and bolder than the early concept shown to the city and the public, possibly rising from 25 to 30 stories.

City officials have indicated they want the JW Marriott design to be changed so it's more "architecturally significant," said Michael W. Wells, who runs REI Real Estate Services in Carmel and is a lead developer for the Marriott project.
"We're very open to taking a look at the existing building and trying to come up with a striking architecture for the building," he said.

Maybe there's hope yet. Striking architecture? 30 stories?

^ That's what I am hoping for.

Here's a question: if this somehow isn't completed by 2010, will it be worth it?

I hope IC can some how buy the PanAm garage and build on it.

And yes, is there any way we can change the designs of those godawful Dora hotels south of LOS?

well, here is a thought. In order for this disaster to gain funding, there will have to be a public hearing on the matter. I am assuming that this will go before the metropolitan development commission (MDC). Therefore, there is an opportunity to go down and speak out against the design. Will it do much good? Probably not, but at least you can speak your mind.

Reading the IndyStar boards and this one, I have a feeling that the mayor's office woke-up to quite a few emails of disgust.

and another thing...the chosen hotel only has 800 rooms!!! Hasn't the City learned from the two previous mistakes with the Westin and the current Marriott? Both hotels were to be 1,000 rooms and neither is. Todays article mentioins this and the City should DEMAND the 1,000 rooms. This is where it is getting bumped up to 30 stories.

Even with a total redesign, I am still against this proposal. The location is WRONG and as I mentioned, they may as well build this south of I-70 in the Sacred Heart neighborhood! That is how well this will connect with the surroundings.

:puts 9mm to head and pulls trigger:

I don't buy the total redesign of the marriott. I have lived around Indy for a pretty long time and have always loved the city but been very disappointed in its new architecture. This just reaffirms these feelings. Indianapolis doesn't know how to produce a new and innovative design that will help set the city's architecture apart. I am still in shock over the choice because it just seemed so obvious. I think Indy is afraid to choose something outside the box that may actually get noticed. Very disappointing to here the news.

I am in shock over the hotel choice. Like cwilson said, hasn't the city learned that conventions want and demand a hotel with 1000 rooms. Not a hotel complex with 1000 rooms, not 1000 rooms in downtown owned by the same company, 1000 rooms in a single hotel.

I am glad everyone on here has emailed the mayor. We should also email the other members of the committee as well as Browning to show them support of their plan and hopefully they will continue to lobby the mayor seeing the public support for their plan. As we learned with the Circle Block project, no plans are set in stone. The mayor rejected the original two story suburban crap approved for the site and we got the Conrad instead. He should do the same in this situation.

I seriously can't belive this!
The IC would have made downtown Indy truely unique! It would also help expand downtown! The city needs to start approving of certian projects if they ever want our beautiful downtown to grow!

^ Out of curiosity, what was the room/condo ratio at the IC compared to the Conrad?
Intercontinental:

1016 rooms
72 condos
14.1 rooms/condo


Conrad:

243 rooms
18 condos
13.5 rooms/condo


So, pretty much exactly the same.

Since JW marriott is supposed to be up there with the COnrad, let's look at what some other look like:


Jakarta:
http://cache.marriott.com/propertyimages/j/jktjw/phototour/jktjw_phototour01.jpg?Log=1

Hong Kong:
http://media.expedia.com/hotels/1000000/10000/6800/6792/6792_3_b.jpg

New York:
http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2005_2nd/rihgaroyalphoto2005.jpeg

Lima:
http://hoteles.marriott.com.pe/jwmarriott-lima/imagenes/limdt_home_leftimage.jpg

Shanghai
http://www.shanghaixp.com/JW%20Marriott.jpg

Seoul:
http://www.stayxs.com/new/booking/images/hotels/DetailPage2061.jpg

With the addition of Indianapolis', there goes the neighborhood!

Ok, so I'm obviously upset by the decision and I've emailed Bart, but I'm starting to become resigned to the fact that we're stuck with the JW Marriott. So, looking on the bright side: at 30 stories, this still has the potential to have quite an impact on the skyline. All floors aren't created equally, but lets assume that it will have a similar average floor height to the Conrad:

Conrad: 87m tall / 23 floors = 3.78m/fl

JW-M: 3.78m/fl * 30 floors = 113.5m

That basically ties it with the City-County building for 7th tallest. Not too bad. Plus, with the extra height making views even better, they may add to the number of condos already proposed (24). Add another 10 or 15m and suddenly it's in the top 5. And given the fact that it's pretty far from the core of tall buildings, it should help with some skyline depth (or maybe width is more appropriate).

There's nothing we can do about the location or the lame "campus configuration", but let's all hope for an architecturally significant redesign.

Since we don't know where those emails to the Mayor really go, or who actually reads them (if anybody), might I suggest everyone begin calling the Mayor's office at (317) 327-3601 to RATIONALLY express your feelings. I called this morning and (since she wasn't in the office yet) was able to leave a message on Barbara Lawrence's voice mail. (fyi, she's one of the three who announced the selection along with Bob Bedell and Tamara) Who knows if these people even know how to use the internet, but if you're able to get them on the phone, they have to listen to you.

CorrND-

yes, it isn't 150M, but at least it looks to be over 100M. It will be prominent because there is nothing over 75M in every direction, BUT, it is still horrible.

What a damn shame. You'd think that the City would have learned from previous mistakes, but this shit doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I am at a loss for words.

CorrND-

yes, it isn't 150M, but at least it looks to be over 100M. It will be prominent because there is nothing over 75M in every direction, BUT, it is still horrible.
lol, agreed! I was just sick of feeling crappy and pissed off about the whole thing, so I decided I had to try to find something to be happy about. The skyline effect was the only thing I could come up with.

I just got pissed all over again and decided to vent through another letter to Peterson. I really wanted to include the line "this selection reeks of backroom politics" but thought better of it. Anybody who hasn't written yet should do so now!


Mayor Peterson:

Your advisory committee's selection of the JW Marriott for our convention hotel is an absolute outrage and their reasoning flimsy at best. The major determining factor, according to all published information, was the timing of a SINGLE EVENT -- the 2010 Final Four. This is a dubious criterion, given the fact that we just hosted the exact same event this year without a hotel of this size. Clearly this hotel is not necessary to host an event of this type.

Considering that the selected hotel will likely be the headquarters hotel for the city for decades and hundreds of events, selecting a hotel based on the timing of one event that doesn't even require a hotel of this size is absurd.

The alternative, the Hotel Intercontinental, is better than the JW Marriott proposal in every possible way. The hotel site is centrally located, urging visitors onto the lively streets of our city and pumping money into the dning, entertainment and hospitality industries of downtown. By comparison, the JW Marriott site is isolated from downtown by West St., a virtual expressway and pedestrian nightmare that will keep people from venturing into downtown.

Consider the dazzling effect that the Hotel Intercontinental will have on our downtown skyline. The choice is obvious.

I urge you to listen to the citizens of this city that are overwhelmingly opposed to the JW Marriott:

http://www.topix.net/forum/source/indianapolis-star/TM1BMA548LD7DI2OI

Please reject the committee's recommendation and select the Hotel Intercontinental proposal instead.

Thank you.

As for Browing, does anyone have an email address for him/his consortium? Perhaps we can encourage him to work with Intercontinental on moving forward with their proposal, and even point him towards all the feedback on the Indystar boards. I'd love to see the IH get built and operating before the Marriot.

According to their website, Browning's general email is browninginfo@browninginv.com and their office phone number is 344-7300. According to the Intercontinental Press Kit, the Browning contact is Dennis Dye at 344-7327 (don't see his email listed)

CorrND-

I sent a very similar email too. I also included links to both of the Star's discussions. I mentioned not needing it for the Final Four, the affect on Illnois Street's vitality, and the poor design. I also mentioned that it took until 1990 to build over 40 stories and that this is the first proposal over that since. 16 years! With construction costs risingthe office market flat, and high-rise living not wanted here, when will we get this chance again?

I even decided to email Browning to let them know that the public is outraged and to urge them to try to find a way to make their happen. Obviously InterContinental wants in the market.

I can't even take solace in the city's future skyline because of the terrible location, it's too far west of the CBD.

I hear Target has a sale on paper towels this week... might help you guys clean up all that puke.

I can't even take solace in the city's future skyline because of the terrible location, it's too far west of the CBD.

And that's one thing I always found attractive about Indy's skyline.....all the buildings seem to be centrally located and close to one another, with the tallest one really being a focal point of the observer. Well, hopefully your guys' letters will convince the mayor that they fucked up.

And that's one thing I always found attractive about Indy's skyline.....all the buildings seem to be centrally located and close to one another, with the tallest one really being a focal point of the observer. Well, hopefully your guys' letters will convince the mayor that they fucked up.
The one glimmer of hope I have is that they haven't officially screwed the pooch yet. There's just a recommendation...no signatures, no money, no contracts...yet.

I'm eager to hear the Star editorial board's opinion on the matter. Hopefully it'll say something like this:

Our position: The Hotel Selection Advisory Committee really screwed the pooch on this one.

...OMG. I havnt had acsess to a computer for a few days and I come back to THIS.

WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING. I AM APALLED. I LOVE THIS CITY AND HAVE JUST LOST SOOO MUCH RESPECT FOR IT. I HAVE NO CONFIDENCE LEFT IN ITS ABILITY TO MAKE DECISIONS.

seriously i am sooo dissappointed I was hoping and dreaming for this project. (starts car and shuts garage door and sits quietly.)

I have just finished reading all of your comments and reflecting your opinions and sentiment and I will be the first to admit my utter loathing at the outcome of this decision. So, once I had finished my sadness and anger I decided that it would be irresponsible for us, as educated citizens of Indianapolis, to allow this project to not get built. I realize that many of you have emailed the Mayors office, as have I, but this is not enough. I have gone back and counted how many members we have in here and I counted 19:

Indychic, Skywlkrsnd, Cwilson758, Naptown Boy, CorrND, MCC, unvrsty07, runaway whore, thehoss257, billionbucks, indyfiend, Naptown, OSUBuck#1, km1410, Union Station13, IndyBob, Chindy, Powerslave, Moochie.

Gentlemen and lady this project has turned out to be a travesty. It is going to take more than emails and phone calls that probably never are given to the right people anyways. We seriously need to organize and bring all of our diverse backgrounds, abilities, and contacts together to make sure that the Mayor does not go with the committees reccommendation.

If you are not as serious as I am then go and look at post 341 and 344 on page 27 and then tell me that you are not ready to organize together. We have 19 people on here that are just as angry as I am, so I am begging for your support to help me in my venture to secure IC and lets change this city for the better, cause if you guys are not willing to get IC (people who study and love development) no one in this city will.

^^Is that even possible?

I dont know or even care, I am just willing to try.... Like some one said earlier the Mayor still has to approve it, no contracts, liscenses or anything have been given out yet. It may seem far fetched, but I will stand up and I am looking for others to help do whatever it takes to persuade the mayor and help the developer of IC get what he needs to develop the project. This is a project for the citizens of Indianapolis, so the citizens of Indianapolis need to get involved, and now more than ever!

^^That is true. Im from fort wayne though. Would it be inappropriate for me to send an email? Fort Wayne resident or not I like to see my states capital make the right desicion.

I have just finished reading all of your comments and reflecting your opinions and sentiment and I will be the first to admit my utter loathing at the outcome of this decision. So, once I had finished my sadness and anger I decided that it would be irresponsible for us, as educated citizens of Indianapolis, to allow this project to not get built. I realize that many of you have emailed the Mayors office, as have I, but this is not enough. I have gone back and counted how many members we have in here and I counted 19:

Indychic, Skywlkrsnd, Cwilson758, Naptown Boy, CorrND, MCC, unvrsty07, runaway whore, thehoss257, billionbucks, indyfiend, Naptown, OSUBuck#1, km1410, Union Station13, IndyBob, Chindy, Powerslave, Moochie.

Gentlemen and lady this project has turned out to be a travesty. It is going to take more than emails and phone calls that probably never are given to the right people anyways. We seriously need to organize and bring all of our diverse backgrounds, abilities, and contacts together to make sure that the Mayor does not go with the committees reccommendation.

If you are not as serious as I am then go and look at post 341 and 344 on page 27 and then tell me that you are not ready to organize together. We have 19 people on here that are just as angry as I am, so I am begging for your support to help me in my venture to secure IC and lets change this city for the better, cause if you guys are not willing to get IC (people who study and love development) no one in this city will.

I agree, but the people must take charge, we cannot allow a small committee of people determine the future of Indianapolis, they are making all the wrong decisions, if the people were the ones to make the decision of development, the Marion county courthouse would probably still be here, with several other landmarks, if the people voted on decisions, then avenues probably woulden't be taken out for highrises,
but our cities future is in the hands of a committee of people, who for all we know are concrete modern structure loving morons, do we really want them incharge of our beautiful city so they can make it even worse?

^^^ That is all I am saying. I will not sit down and accept this, I am willing to stand up and take action to make a difference. I drive downtown everyday to campus and I have envisioned this tower being right by the dome in all of its magnificence everyday since the project was announced and I am not willing to sit down and let this picture in my mind go away because of a committee that does not know what they are doing.

I do not know everyones' occupation on here but I do know Cory is an urban planner and he would help sway opinion if given a chance. All I am saying is there are 19 people on here alone that have something to offer to get this reversed and if we stand together there is nothing that can stop us.

Wow, I just reread the Star article about the hotel battle (this was the one on Sunday the 10th). They had a table listing the challenges and positives of each project, here were two of the challenges the Marriott faced:

- Didn't know if they could put 1,000 rooms in a hotel
- Didn't know if four hotels would be completed by 2010
:?

This is absolutely ridiculous, I am absolutely disgusted by this plan of action to accept this marriot project. I agree with Unvrsty07 to the end! It is a travesty that our great city is being decided by a bunch of irrisponsible people for the urban groth of our great city.

The IC would be enormously better for our growth population than the marriot. I'm sorry but i am absolutely enraged at this travesty!
Just because the commitee is full of people that look like this .... :banana: !

From the Indy star:

The Marriott hotel that gets built is likely to be significantly bigger and bolder than the early concept shown to the city and the public, possibly rising from 25 to 30 stories.

City officials have indicated they want the JW Marriott design to be changed so it's more "architecturally significant," said Michael W. Wells, who runs REI Real Estate Services in Carmel and is a lead developer for the Marriott project.
"We're very open to taking a look at the existing building and trying to come up with a striking architecture for the building," he said.

Maybe there's hope yet. Striking architecture? 30 stories?
^^
Thats all the hope Indy has left. Yet again, Indy misses its chance at any sort of architectural significance. Sigh.
Maybe it will get better, but its certainly not going to break any ground, and I doubt it will be anywhere near as interesting as the Intercontinental.
Indy needs variety, and quick.

White River State Park could get outdoor rink

Indianapolis - The 250-acre White River State Park is home to the Indianapolis Zoo, the Indiana State Museum, Victory Field and several other attractions. It may soon see more changes. Park Director Bob Whitt wants an outdoor skating rink added to the mix.

Whitt envisions it in a large grass oval located between the Visitor's Center and the Pumphouse offices. "I looked at the shape and the skyline and thought, 'What a wonderful place to come with your family and skate,'" Whitt said.

He said tentative plans call for a rink similar to the one at Rockefeller Plaza with lighting, a sound system, warming tent, concession area and place to rent skates.

"We don't have mountains here, so there's not a lot of opportunity for outdoor recreation in the winter," he said, adding, "This fits with the governor's In-Shape Indiana Initiative and the mayor's Fit City Campaign."


Whitt said with the right cooling system a rink could be open between November and March. He estimates the cost of the rink at up to to $1.5 million. The next step would be hiring an architect to come up with a design. Assuming the money is raised and the White River State Park Development Commission approves the plan, Whitt said people could be skating there as early as next November.

The park's outdoor music venue is also in for a few changes. Wednesday afternoon the Development Commission okayed plans for a seasonal stage to be built around the simple stage structure now there. The new stage will replace the need to install a mobile one prior to each concert.

The Commission also agreed to move the VIP section from the grass oval to seasonal risers installed behind the engineers' tent at the top of hill. Whitt said the move will allow those in the VIP section to actually see a concert instead of just hearing it.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5841882
There is a video link on the site

--------------

I can't help but think... the Marriott will RUIN the view that the white river state park has of the city...!!

I agree about the IC thing,
but I see alot of Indianapolisins changing theyre singnatures to rather inaccurate statements,
no offense, I agree that I am upset about the decision aswell as many of you,
but I don't think its the end of any urbanism in downtown Indianapolis,
it was one hotel proposal, it is not the end of the city,
and I must say, alot of the signatures will give people who haven't been to Indy a bad impression on our lovely city,
and its not as if this hotel will stop the growth of downtown, the downtown population is rising as more townhomes and condo structures are being built, and historical structures restored and turned into condos and office space,
Indianapolis doesen't need a highrise to continue its development,
as space in structures fill up, and downtown density rises, along with economy, I really don't see the need for everyone to have bad views on Indy,
I must say, I have alot of faith in Indianapolis, but not its mayor much anymore,
Indianapolis can still develope, and I am sure there will be more highrise proposals, and hopefully some are approved,
just becuase one highrise was not chosen doesen't mean we should give up on our entire downtown, look at our downtown, it is beautiful,
it has life, so why should we just get all pissed and hate Indy now?
I agree, the public must take this in theyre own hands,
and we should do it rather soon,
but losing faith in one of the fastest growing midwestern cities, with a vibrant alive downtown is just plain stupid,
so lets not forget, that just becuase one highrise may not be constructed does not mean we should all freak out and give up on a growing, vibrant, downtown in which is gaining so much so fast,
I still have faith in Indy, and I still say it is, and will be more of an amazing city in the future, so lets not do the whole, Indy is a shitty suburb thing, becuase that is a dumb statement.:ohno:

Another tactic to be heard would be to contact Whiteco on this page and let them know what we expect to see in the tower. ie. (at least 45 stories) and landmark design.
http://www.wpmsite.com/pages/contact.htm

Another tactic to be heard would be to contact Whiteco on this page and let them know what we expect to see in the tower. ie. (at least 45 stories) and landmark design.
http://www.wpmsite.com/pages/contact.htm

wow, looking their past projects on their website makes me very skeptical that this company is going to give us a half decent design.

^^
Yikes. Terribly true.

I have just finished reading all of your comments and reflecting your opinions and sentiment and I will be the first to admit my utter loathing at the outcome of this decision. So, once I had finished my sadness and anger I decided that it would be irresponsible for us, as educated citizens of Indianapolis, to allow this project to not get built. I realize that many of you have emailed the Mayors office, as have I, but this is not enough. I have gone back and counted how many members we have in here and I counted 19:

Indychic, Skywlkrsnd, Cwilson758, Naptown Boy, CorrND, MCC, unvrsty07, runaway whore, thehoss257, billionbucks, indyfiend, Naptown, OSUBuck#1, km1410, Union Station13, IndyBob, Chindy, Powerslave, Moochie.

Gentlemen and lady this project has turned out to be a travesty. It is going to take more than emails and phone calls that probably never are given to the right people anyways. We seriously need to organize and bring all of our diverse backgrounds, abilities, and contacts together to make sure that the Mayor does not go with the committees reccommendation.

If you are not as serious as I am then go and look at post 341 and 344 on page 27 and then tell me that you are not ready to organize together. We have 19 people on here that are just as angry as I am, so I am begging for your support to help me in my venture to secure IC and lets change this city for the better, cause if you guys are not willing to get IC (people who study and love development) no one in this city will.

I think a lot of contributors here would be willing to organize. But what do you propose we do besides voice our opinions through emails and phone calls? An online petition, maybe? Or perhaps we could bring this up with the local news teams and get their investigative hounds doing some digging for us. Any other thoughts?

Someone was also asking what we all do for a living... I'm a graduate architect (basically an architect w/o a stamp :) ) working in a small architecture firm downtown.

From today's Indystar...

-----

Welcome to the Hotel Mundane

Our position: The city went with the safe but dull in selecting flagship hotel for convention center.

Cities don't often get the opportunity to redefine their skylines. Indianapolis leaders had that chance this week but passed.
Instead of selecting a boldly designed InterContinental Hotel that would have become a focal centerpiece for the city, a seven-member committee chose a bland cluster of Marriott-brand hotels that could fit anywhere from suburban Chicago to downtown Boise.
The InterContinental would have been distinctive. The Marriott is merely safe.
The winning hotel's design may be polished a bit between now and groundbreaking. But developers will be working under a tight deadline because city leaders insist they want the new hotel operating before the 2010 NCAA Men's Final Four.
So the probability is high for construction of another functional but boring Downtown box.
From White River State Park to Mass Ave, Downtown has great appeal, not just because it offers so many things to do and is easy to traverse but also because of its aesthetics. The canal is a pleasure most any time of year. The monuments and parks are especially attractive in spring and summer. Many of the historic buildings, rich with the details of fine design, echo traditions of the city's and state's past.
But much of the new construction in recent years, with the exception of the ArtsGarden and Conseco Fieldhouse, has been unimaginative.
With the hotel selection, city leaders could have embraced innovation over the serviceable and safe.
The choice of the Marriott bid isn't necessarily bad. The hotel as far as service and accommodations likely will prove to be satisfactory once in operation.
But visionary? Exciting? Bold? No.
Try ordinary instead.

Not a bad editorial piece, though I would like to have seen them really rip into the city for its decision.

As for organizing, I think I would be willing to participate. My background is software engineering, so I can only claim that architecture is just sort of a hobby of mine. I do however, have a few contacts (writers) that work for local publications, so maybe that knowledge can help somehow.

I do agree that we cannot let the IC simply go away. As someone mentioned earlier, it's clear that they have an interest in the market; I think we should do whatever we can to see that they get the assistance from the city to go forward with construction. If the mayor chooses to accept the council's reccomendation, then we need to do whatever we can to get the IC project built anyway.

Hey, my first double post ever. Neat.

I think the editorial was very well done. I still hope that enough pressure will be put on the city and the developer to truly modify their design, height, and layout. Here is hoping that their is enough of the right people that will decide they want something much better than what was proposed. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. With that said, most midwest cities could only hope to have such development taking place in their downtown, Convention Center expansion, Lucas Oil stadium, residential development and now a major hotel. I agree that Indy must take the next step in their downtown development and that would be good architecture, but the place still is one of the top downtowns in US and that something to be proud of.

I don't think that the Marriot will do downtown justice, we do have one of the most alive downtowns,(especially for a midwestern city)
and not just cars driving through downtown, but people shopping,
walking, all kinds of life that alot of midwestern cities would die for,
we have an amazing, beautiful city, of some of the finest architectuall examples in the country,
and I don't think Indy should allow a concrete glass building with no color or taste be constructed in a city that could do so much better.

Actually, some kind of organization would be great. It would help to get our voices heard.

If anyone has read the Star lately, there are hundreds more people just as upset as we are and are willing to do whatever it takes to reverse the decision as well, which is a good sign.

Count me in Unvrsty07! I know that IndyBob is also a land use planner and may be able to contribute. I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I doubt that I would change many minds. I mean, I am just a lowly planner. I can certainly present all of the positives and negatives, but it is going to take a lot. I have been complaining to anyone that would listen from the Mayor's Neighborhood Liasons to elected officials.

Another tactic to be heard would be to contact Whiteco on this page and let them know what we expect to see in the tower. ie. (at least 45 stories) and landmark design.
http://www.wpmsite.com/pages/contact.htm
After viewing the website I can say that those designs are terrible. Most of their projects are suburban. Given those two qualities alone, this new crapfest by Marriott will be the deciding factor that ruins our great downtown.

I think we should stop being so upset about this, calm down, and do something about this,
I personally have no faith in the city council.
I think that the people of Indianapolis should make development choices, and NOT a stupid committee of 19 people who could all be moronic assholes.

From today's Indystar...

-----

Welcome to the Hotel Mundane

Our position: The city went with the safe but dull in selecting flagship hotel for convention center.

Damnit, BOOO Indy Star!

My position: the Indy Star went with a safe but weak editorial when they could have ripped the advisory committee and city leadership for their ridiculous recommendation.

I think we should stop being so upset about this, calm down, and do something about this,
I personally have no faith in the city council.
I think that the people of Indianapolis should make development choices, and NOT a stupid committee of 19 people who could all be moronic assholes.

Why should we not form a commitee of 19 people, it has to start somewhere does it not. Also i don't believe everyone is giving up on the urban developement of this great fast paced moving city. I think you have misinterpreted everyones comments. Also if we don't start somewhere with a commitee of people then we won't have 200-500 people on a commitee if we don't start it now and get people to agree with us and take action. I still love indianapolis i just think we are getting the MAJOR short end of the stick and think we should do something to reverse this action. A beautiful tower that will also improve our skyline view is absolutely needed because we don't have a bad skyline but it could be a lot lot lot better. That's why we are organizing against this tradgedy!

(pssst....Marriott has 2 t's)

Why should we not form a commitee of 19 people, it has to start somewhere does it not. Also i don't believe everyone is giving up on the urban developement of this great fast paced moving city. I think you have misinterpreted everyones comments. Also if we don't start somewhere with a commitee of people then we won't have 200-500 people on a commitee if we don't start it now and get people to agree with us and take action. I still love indianapolis i just think we are getting the MAJOR short end of the stick and think we should do something to reverse this action. A beautiful tower that will also improve our skyline view is absolutely needed because we don't have a bad skyline but it could be a lot lot lot better. That's why we are organizing against this tradgedy!
I agree,
we are far from a suburbian division,
what suburb has the historical downtown structures Indy has?
None,
we should not lose faith, Indy can still develope, and I am sure things will pick up, especially since the public is pissed off,
but Indianapolis is becoming a better city each day,
and I think that Indy will keep growing,
we have an amazing downtown other midwestern cities dream of,
Indianapolis doesen't need the IC to keep up development, but my god would it help alot!:banana:

Here a copy of the reply I got from one of my emails I sent to the mayor:


Thank you for recently contacting Mayor Peterson about the proposed new
convention center headquarters hotel in downtown Indianapolis. The Mayor
appreciates your input, and I am responding on his behalf.

As you are aware, the Hotel Selection Advisory Committee recently
recommended that the Indianapolis Bond Bank pursue a letter of intent with
the developer of a J. W. Marriott hotel to be located at Washington and
West Streets.
As part of the letter of intent and the final project agreement, the City
will work closely with the developer to create a first-class hotel with
architectural appeal that will be a great addition to the City’s skyline
and enhance our convention industry.

Thank you again for contacting Mayor Peterson’s Office.

Elizabeth Gerwels
Constituent Services
Mayor’s Office

----

Typical PR. Doesn't say anything we don't already know, but make of it what you will.

Here a copy of the reply I got from one of my emails I sent to the mayor:


Thank you for recently contacting Mayor Peterson about the proposed new
convention center headquarters hotel in downtown Indianapolis. The Mayor
appreciates your input, and I am responding on his behalf.

As you are aware, the Hotel Selection Advisory Committee recently
recommended that the Indianapolis Bond Bank pursue a letter of intent with
the developer of a J. W. Marriott hotel to be located at Washington and
West Streets.
As part of the letter of intent and the final project agreement, the City
will work closely with the developer to create a first-class hotel with
architectural appeal that will be a great addition to the City’s skyline
and enhance our convention industry.

Thank you again for contacting Mayor Peterson’s Office.

Elizabeth Gerwels
Constituent Services
Mayor’s Office

----

Typical PR. Doesn't say anything we don't already know, but make of it what you will.
What a bullshit reply!

I got the exact same reply. They're probably not even reading our letters. I bet they get skimmed and flagged as hotel-related and get this form response.

This thing is a done deal.

This is one of those moments when a city and its downtown can take a real step forward or just fall down. I going to hedge my bet that the city will take a real step forward and pic the IC.

ouch

Typical PR. Doesn't say anything we don't already know, but make of it what you will.

Actually I think It says everything. 1) It's telling you the Mayor is going to accept the recommendation of the selection committee regardless and 2) you should bend over and like it. I miss the days when Stephen Goldsmith lead the city. I think he would have stood up for the bold new vision of the InterContinental.

Micheal Wells, http://www.reires.com/aboutreiMWells.htm president of REI and extensively quoted in this article: http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061220/BUSINESS/612200480/-1/ZONES04

Has apparently positioned himself as spokesman for the group of investors responsible for this clusterfuck. Along with our letters to the Mayor and city etc. I propose we also e-mail, fax, and perhaps call him and other important people involved and politely appeal to their vanity so as to encourage them to build a landmark project. This tactic may actually have an impact, seeing as a guy who actually quotes himself on his companies webpage is obviously amenable to self congratulation.... This may be one of those instances where "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"...

Perhaps if we all write polite and glowing letters cc'd to everyone important we can find in the companies involved, asking them to build a new landmark type monument that serves as a dramatic gateway to downtown that as well as a piece of sculpture that will be instantly recognizable nationwide etc. etc. etc. for the benefit of both his company and the city of Indianapolis... blah, blah, blah you get the point... perhaps something can be salvaged from this travesty of a decision.

I just don't have time at the moment to research e-mails and fax #'s etc. but I will later. Perhaps someone else can helpfind some? Let's frickin flood them with positive ego stroking communications..

Here's REI's contact page for a start:
http://www.reires.com/contact.htm

Actually I think It says everything. 1) It's telling you the Mayor is going to accept the recommendation of the selection committee regardless and 2) you should bend over and like it. I miss the days when Stephen Goldsmith lead the city. I think he would have stood up for the bold new vision of the InterContinental.

*VOMIT!* Anything but Goldsmith! I know this committe's decision was dumb but I think its stupid that people have been writing that they will leave the city because we have nothing to offer now. Mmmoookay.

Actually I think It says everything. 1) It's telling you the Mayor is going to accept the recommendation of the selection committee regardless and 2) you should bend over and like it. I miss the days when Stephen Goldsmith lead the city. I think he would have stood up for the bold new vision of the InterContinental.

You can't be serious. Goldsmith approved a two story building for the spot where the Conrad is now. He approved the 600 room Mariott hotel when even back then convention planners were demanding a 1000 room hotel. He approved the Anthem campus thats too suburban for even the northside office market.

You can't be serious. Goldsmith approved a two story building for the spot where the Conrad is now. He approved the 600 room Mariott hotel when even back then convention planners were demanding a 1000 room hotel. He approved the Anthem campus thats too suburban for even the northside office market.

Absolutely right. But in defense of the Anthem campus (and I'm not defending Goldsmith) - my understanding is they wanted to build it much taller - 20 to 30 floors. Unfortunately buildings in that vicinity have height restrictions because of the sky plane exposure from the heliport. I've never understood why the sky plane is so elongated. You would think it would be very concentrated since helicopters can take off and land vertically. Clarian has a helipad on top of their building. Anyway, go figure.

Goldsmith's other planning faux pas was to remove the heavy-duty footers in Circle Center mall to save money. Originally there were going to be building pads for vertical development, including, at that time, Simon's new headquarters. He also removed one underground level devoted to service vehicles and then proceeded to build the World of Wonders garage/monstrosity because the mall needed parking! To this day, I still think that is the best location for a convention-related building. It would be directly connected to the convention center and the mall.

um...yeah, regardless of the political affiliation, to say that Goldsmith would have done better is absurd. Sorry, but as pointed-out, Goldsmith had very little knowledge of urban planning/design. He is responsible for the fiasco that is known as South Street with its wonderful drive-thru restaurants, Anthem, the 3-story Wellpoint structure on the Circle, Farm Bureau insurance with its 75-foot setback from East Street, and countless other downtown planning "no-no's."

oh, and at least you all got responses from the Mayor's Office. I'm afraid that since many in the Mayor's Office at least know my name, I may be getting completely ignored.

Here is the letter I wrote to the Star:

It has been three days since the news broke about the Hotel Selection Committee's choice to go with the JW Marriott at White River State Park over the Hotel InterContinental proposal for Pan Am Plaza. To me it looks like they dug through the trash from the designs of the Simon Building and thought, “this should fit in nicely with Indy’s mundane skyline.”

To say that I am disappointed is an understatement. I am a city/land use planner by trade. I spent the first four years out of school working for the City, so I shouldn't be surprised by this decision. But I am.

First of all, how often does the opportunity come along for Indy to build a new second-tallest? Especially a building that would be very distinguished when compared to the existing towers. Secondly, why would a committee that includes the president of IDI choose a “complex of hotels” built at the intersection of West and Washington Streets? Could it get any more suburban at that location? West Street may as well be an interstate with the way it cuts through the west side of downtown and isolates everything west. That is not a pedestrian-friendly corridor and will cause those visiting our fine City and staying at this hodge-podge of hotels inclined to remain at their complex instead of venturing to Circle Centre or Meridian Street. Isn't this why those areas are successful; because they are all tied together? This new complex will add nothing to the urban fabric of downtown and may as well be built south of I-70. The InterContinental would have continued to reinforce Illinois Street as Indy’s “Main Street.”

To use the reasoning of wanting the new hotel constructed by the time the 2010 Final Four is here is laughable at best! Didn’t we just host the Final Four this year WITHOUT this hotel? Also, wasn’t the criterion to have a hotel with 1,000 rooms under one roof? This is only 800. Didn’t the City learn the first time with the Westin? Or what about the second time with the current Marriott? Is it going to take a fourth to finally get this right?

Indianapolis doesn’t have an ocean or mountains to off-set our boring and homogenous skyline. We have to rely on the built environment to make a “first impression.” With the proposed InterContinental, we would have at least been heading in the right direction. Now, this building will blend right in and be as prominent on the skyline as the Indiana State Office Tower and continue to underscore Indy’s fascination with the ordinary. When will this City wake-up and stop letting developers shape the look of our downtown? We will never be a “world-class city” if we continue to settle for second-rate design. It is an insult to the citizens of Marion County to use our hard-earned tax money to pay for this unimaginative limestone “container.”

Maybe we should change our slogan, "Indianapolis: Building a World-Class Suburb One Mistake at a Time."

some of you are making retarded statements saying we are a suburb, personally, I think the only way Indy could be a suburb, is if they demolish everything(including the monuments) tear out the streets and put in gridd, and then put in housing additions and wal-marts,
you people are clearely over reacting,
Indianapolis is still growing very fast,
and I highly doubt people are going to move away becuase of the decision,

and if they do, they are complete utter morons,
alot of you are overreacting and making stupid statements about how we are a suburb, when clearly, we arent.:ohno:

But I am pissed about theyre decision,
I mean COME ON!
The IC would help so much more!
It would probably draw more people downtown aswell, and help with revitilization to that section of downtown, not to mention Union station!
Are they blind? Why must we always have the plain new structures?
All of our rich architecture comes from buildings that are over 80 years old,
I mean seriously,
the city wants to make an even better downtown, they need to take the IC,
hell, I am sure alot of Indianapolisins are still really pissed about the Market square arena tower denials, and we are still angry about that, and this diden't help,
I seriously think, that if the city council keeps this shit up, the Indianapolisins are going to take development in theyre own hands.

@cwilson ^^Very nice. So harsh but its great and undeniably true.

some of you are making retarded statements saying we are a suburb, personally, I think the only way Indy could be a suburb, is if they demolish everything(including the monuments) tear out the streets and put in gridd, and then put in housing additions and wal-marts,
you people are clearely over reacting,
Indianapolis is still growing very fast,
and I highly doubt people are going to move away becuase of the decision,

and if they do, they are complete utter morons,
alot of you are overreacting and making stupid statements about how we are a suburb, when clearly, we arent.:ohno:

Im not seeing the theme saying we ARE a suburb. Indy's mistakes are ruining some chances to be more urban and bringing in even more suburban characteristics to the city. Its not that Indy IS a suburb, more that it has too many suburban qualities in its downtown.

Im not seeing the theme saying we ARE a suburb. Indy's mistakes are ruining some chances to be more urban and bringing in even more suburban characteristics to the city. Its not that Indy IS a suburb, more that it has too many suburban qualities in its downtown.

I say we take a bulldozer and wipe out suburban structures downtown and get a new mayor. :banana:
but alot of peoples siggies make us sound as a big shit load of suburbias,
I mean, atleast theyre building a hotel, and not putting a bunch of motels in around the new Lucas oil stadiums(and yes I am aware of the ugly midrise hotels going in around the Lucas oil stadium).:bash:

That is true. I will admit the fact about the sigs. Wll I see it like this, Indy fucked up and I guess we will have to ride it out and deal with it. Im just hoping for that height increase and "striking" architecture.

That is true. I will admit the fact about the sigs. Wll I see it like this, Indy fucked up and I guess we will have to ride it out and deal with it. Im just hoping for that height increase and "striking" architecture.

Perhaps a 32 story structure with more limestone and more color?
I like the limestone look, like the Conrad, but the Marriott uses way too much glass.

Although it will never reach the height that the IH would have been, 32 stories would be great. But to be honest Im not even for a limeston building I just think something totally unique would be fitting. It needs to be flashy. I wouldnt mind if it was a little gaudy...just not so damn safe and conservative.

Although it will never reach the height that the IH would have been, 32 stories would be great. But to be honest Im not even for a limeston building I just think something totally unique would be fitting. It needs to be flashy. I wouldnt mind if it was a little gaudy...just not so damn safe and conservative.


I like tradition architecture, especially limestone structures,
but I agree, a signature structure would be nice,
but I would like to see it in a more classical shape or form.

If some of you think Indy has made some bad choices in developing the city and its downtown, then you really would NOT be happy in most cities across the US where their downtowns are decades behind Indy in their development and environment. I would much prefer the IC building, but downtown Indy is still a great urban downtown. Lets hope they do increases it height and improve the architecture.

Yes, I am being harsh, but it seems as if that is what is needed now. There are far too many "dumb" decisions that have been made/continue to be made downtown. For every example of getting it right, we have made two for getting it wrong. It's as if the City leaders threw their hands in the air and gave up on development south of South Street. Too often developers cry to whomever will listen in an effort to gettheir way all while using the threat of taking the development elsewhere. Well, in 1984 that may have been a justifiable response, but in 2006, if a developer is looking at downtown Indy, they want in downtown Indy. Below are my complaints for the downtown development:

LOS - It should be flush with the street grid, yet it is "cock-eyed."

Walgreen's 16th & Meridian (U/C) - this will have a parking lot in front and the building will be setback.

The Villaggio - good height, but made of EFIS. Should have just used cardboard, its as sturdy.

Lilly - Ferris Campus - The word "campus" should be prohibited from being used in our CBD unless it is for a school.

FireHouse Square - NO residence in the Mile-Square should have a front yard...wtf? Does anyone use these front yards? No. They should have a back yard.

The Zipper Building - a bank with a drive-thru. Drive-thru's should be prohibited in the Mile-Sq. Oh wait, they are. Then how did this get approved?

Anthem - Another Campus

Farm Bureau Insurance Hdqts - setback 70-feet from East Street.

um...yeah, regardless of the political affiliation, to say that Goldsmith would have done better is absurd. Sorry, but as pointed-out, Goldsmith had very little knowledge of urban planning/design. He is responsible for the fiasco that is known as South Street with its wonderful drive-thru restaurants, Anthem, the 3-story Wellpoint structure on the Circle, Farm Bureau insurance with its 75-foot setback from East Street, and countless other downtown planning "no-no's."

He governed during a very different time in Indianpolis history--urban development takes time and the city wouldn't be in the position it's in now if it weren't for Goldsmith's leadership in geting all those wonderful CORE plans we made during the late 80's and early 90's accomplished--even if they weren't perfect. The remodelling of the Convention Center, the restoration and focus on buildings on Monument Circle, the construction of Circle Center (a true downtown gem), the Eli Lilly expansion. No, skyscrapers weren't his forte, but urban development was. Everybody wants nice dense tall buildings downtown, especially on this forum, but to get to the position where there is an economy for those buildings you have to get the ball rolling. Regardless of his political leanings, he made the right choices.

Yes, I am being harsh, but it seems as if that is what is needed now. There are far too many "dumb" decisions that have been made/continue to be made downtown. For every example of getting it right, we have made two for getting it wrong. It's as if the City leaders threw their hands in the air and gave up on development south of South Street. Too often developers cry to whomever will listen in an effort to gettheir way all while using the threat of taking the development elsewhere. Well, in 1984 that may have been a justifiable response, but in 2006, if a developer is looking at downtown Indy, they want in downtown Indy. Below are my complaints for the downtown development:

LOS - It should be flush with the street grid, yet it is "cock-eyed."

Walgreen's 16th & Meridian (U/C) - this will have a parking lot in front and the building will be setback.

The Villaggio - good height, but made of EFIS. Should have just used cardboard, its as sturdy.

Lilly - Ferris Campus - The word "campus" should be prohibited from being used in our CBD unless it is for a school.

FireHouse Square - NO residence in the Mile-Square should have a front yard...wtf? Does anyone use these front yards? No. They should have a back yard.

The Zipper Building - a bank with a drive-thru. Drive-thru's should be prohibited in the Mile-Sq. Oh wait, they are. Then how did this get approved?

Anthem - Another Campus

Farm Bureau Insurance Hdqts - setback 70-feet from East Street.

I know we all don't like parking lots and drive throughs, but these are necessities, but we can make these things look better, maybe some treese in the small parking lot, and is the drive through supposed to be in the back?
Becuase if it is in the back, I really have no problem with it, it would probably be convenient idea, in which I can go on with my other daily needs, instead of standing in line inside the bank waiting for the old women in the front to find her checkbook. The LOS is cock-eyes, becuase the LOS developers want the retractable windows to open up to the skyline, which, most of the highrises, are to the North East of the LOS, if it was to point exactly North, all you would see is the State capitol dome, and Indiana state library midrise, not to mention the new Marriott if the mayor approves of it sadly.

A Drive thru is not a necessity

A Drive thru is not a necessity
Not really,
but it does make it more convenient for the bankers and the customers.

He governed during a very different time in Indianpolis history--urban development takes time and the city wouldn't be in the position it's in now if it weren't for Goldsmith's leadership in geting all those wonderful CORE plans we made during the late 80's and early 90's accomplished--even if they weren't perfect. The remodelling of the Convention Center, the restoration and focus on buildings on Monument Circle, the construction of Circle Center (a true downtown gem), the Eli Lilly expansion. No, skyscrapers weren't his forte, but urban development was. Everybody wants nice dense tall buildings downtown, especially on this forum, but to get to the position where there is an economy for those buildings you have to get the ball rolling. Regardless of his political leanings, he made the right choices.

Goldsmith had nothing to do with Circle Centre, he just got the credit because it was built while he was mayor. The man is screwball.

Maybe they chose the Marriott to save money,
maybe they will hopefully use the money they saved to restore more historical downtown structures,
I would after all(and please no one kill me) see more historical structures restored into office space or condos, or even retial, then to see the IC be constructed instead,
I wonder what they will use the extra money on now. :dance2:

Not really,
but it does make it more convenient for the bankers and the customers.
So do surface parking lots...

Well, we don't all like parking lots, but not everyone can afford to put a parking lot underneath there structure,
atleast they aren't demolishing any historical structures for it,
and its not like its going to be there forever, they may put a surface parking lot underneath it later on when the money is more avaliable,
but not everything built can be beautiful and amazing, some of the things going in are just functional, and I know, that its downtown, but not everyone has millions of dollars to construct and underground parking garage,
I would prefer underground ones aswell,
but really, we can't have every structure being constructed being in our favorable taste, Indianapolis is still developing, its not like its going to be there for the rest of eternity, I mean honestly, if it helps financially, and doesen't involve destruction of present structures that are of historical value, then I really honestly don't mind,
its better than the Murat building being demolished for the Conrad parking garage just becuase they diden't want a surface parking lot a few blocks away.

VERY GOOD PROYECTS

don't you mean pro"j"ects?

An article on the fate of Pan-Am Plaza, from indystar.com:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061223/BUSINESS/612230423

I'm not really sure what to make of it, but I've got the feeling that there will be no high-rise development on the plaza for a long time.

Another indystar article, this one concerning that proposed massive zoning project on 96th and Allisonville.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061223/LOCAL/612230450/1006/LOCAL

An article on the fate of Pan-Am Plaza, from indystar.com:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061223/BUSINESS/612230423

I'm not really sure what to make of it, but I've got the feeling that there will be no high-rise development on the plaza for a long time.

Believe it or not, I have actually met Armand Lasky, and having a super savvy New York investor like him buying development rights on a parcel that is so ripe for development can only be a good thing.. He's a lot smarter than Indy Gov. leaders, and while he's a parking garage magnate, he's got his fingers in a lot of big residential projects worldwide.

Google him. He's a big fish.

Believe it or not, I have actually met Armand Lasky, and having a super savvy New York investor like him buying development rights on a parcel that is so ripe for development can only be a good thing.. He's a lot smarter than Indy Gov. leaders, and while he's a parking garage magnate, he's got his fingers in a lot of big residential projects worldwide.

Google him. He's a big fish.

Sweet, hopefully he puts in a a somewhat tall residential structure, with a retial ground floor.
That would be great, especially for that part of downtown, since its pretty much near the edge, the railroad tracks pretty much cut off downtown into an even smaller area, hopefully the LOS will open up that part of downtown.

Hope this doesn't add fuel to the already raging inferno of oposition to the Marriott convention hotel, but you guys have to read this editorial from IBJ:

EDITORIAL: Hotel panel made a wise selection
Winner provided more certainty

Hats off to Mayor Bart Peterson’s Hotel Selection Advisory Committee for picking the best proposal for a new downtown convention hotel—and, in doing so, putting aside political favoritism.

The seven-person panel, appointed by the Democratic mayor, easily could have gone with the runner-up, a worthy proposal submitted by a partnership that includes prominent Democrat Michael Browning. Instead, it went with an even better one from a partnership that includes Republican Mike Wells, former adviser to GOP Mayor Steve Goldsmith.

The Browning proposal had a lot going for it, especially sizzle. In partnership with Milwaukee-based Marcus Corp., Browning’s firm proposed a 44-story tower on Pan Am Plaza with a 1,000-room InterContinental hotel. It was a striking structure that would have been downtown’s second-largest building.

It also boasted a stellar location, across the street from the planned addition to the Indiana Convention Center and close to Circle Centre, restaurants and night life.

Both the Browning plan and the winning plan—submitted by a partnership of Wells’ REI Investments and Merrillville-based White Lodging Services Corp.—had price tags of around $250 million.

The REI-White proposal would transform the site of a downtown Courtyard by Marriott into a complex of hotels with more than 1,500 rooms. The biggest would by a ritzy JW Marriott hotel that would overlook Victory Field.

Picking between the proposals might have been a tossup were it not for these facts: The White-REI team has more financial firepower, already controls the property it needs, and is tied in with Marriott, widely considered the top brand in the convention industry.

Also key: The project would help unite the the relatively isolated White River State Park with the rest of downtown.

Elevated walkways would connect the hotel complex with the western end of the Indiana Convention Center. The result: Pedestrians would have an easy, above-ground route to cross six-lane West Street, which now is a treacherous experience.

As Bob Whitt, executive director of White River State Park, told IBJ last spring: “I’m definitely interested in doing something to kind of get past the psychological and physical barrier that is West Street.”

That link, in itself, might not have been enough to push the REI-White project over the top. More important: The Browning team had not yet bought an underground parking garage it needed for its project. And it didn’t have the financial wherewithal of the REI-White team, which has the backing of Dean White, the 83-year-old Merrillville billionaire.

In short, uncertainties weighed on the Browning proposal.

City officials can’t afford unpleasant surprises. They want the REI-White project to open before the 2010 men’s Final Four in Indianapolis. A $275 million expansion of the Indiana Convention Center also is scheduled to open that year.

Much work remains before city officials wrap up the deal, including negotiating tens of millions of dollars in incentives for the project. But thanks to the selection committee’s wise choice of the REI-White proposal, the process is off to a great start.
•

To comment on this editorial, write to ibjedit@ibj.com.

Here's my comment: :nuts:

I guess I am getting over it. If there are improvements made to better link this to the east side of the street, then that will be progress. Absolutely a redesign must occur and the building, with its isolation, needs to be striking. Also, I think a 32-floor minimum should be required. This would still alter the skyline because that would be close to the size of Market Tower, or slightly taller the the CCB. The location is 2.5 blocks from the core (sigh), so I can learn to live with it. I am going to have to.

Believe it or not, I have actually met Armand Lasky, and having a super savvy New York investor like him buying development rights on a parcel that is so ripe for development can only be a good thing.. He's a lot smarter than Indy Gov. leaders, and while he's a parking garage magnate, he's got his fingers in a lot of big residential projects worldwide.

Google him. He's a big fish.

I can't seem to find anything about him that indicates he has benn involved with any new, large-scale development. Seems to me he holds the cards for any future development at Pan Am and will sell the garage at a huge profit. If he acquires the above ground development rights from Browning, then he'll sit on the property for years until he can get an obscene profit. This is what parking developers do. Parking lots and garages should be subjected to higher tax assessments to prohibit land banking.

i am so effin tired of the indy star turning the choice into a political "democrat proposal v. republican proposal" it really pisses me off! "hats off to peterson for being a dem and chosing a rep firm!" wtf

From the Indy Star,

Around the world, cities are putting up buildings of distinctive, even flamboyant style.

JW Marriott - Photo provided by JW Marriott

But when Indianapolis convention officials last week picked a developer for the new Downtown hotel, they passed on an exuberant 44-story design, the InterContinental.
Instead, they chose the mid-rise Marriott, 25 stories shaped like a modern cube, a quiet style they said was the better business choice, given a relatively tight deadline.
What the city really wants, however, is more flair.
The officials told the architects to return with a taller and more appealing design, and do it before March.
"We hope we have a flagship hotel that changes the face of the city," said Barbara Lawrence, director of the Indianapolis Bond Bank, the city agency charged with selecting the developer. "We want to have a higher architectural value than what was presented in the renderings.
"The committee looked at two proposals. One design was very appealing, the other less so. The realization was neither one of these projects was truly designed yet.
"So there was some flexibility there to make sure we had a hotel that was architecturally significant. We want it to make a statement.''
Just what the development team led by REI Real Estate Services of Carmel will come up with in the new design is still unknown.
But area residents and architects who had groaned about the tame style in the architect's renderings approved of the selection committee's order for a new design of the $250 million hotel.
"This is going to be a major building on the Downtown skyline. With the emphasis on arts and culture that we have in Indianapolis, I'm sure the committee is looking for something distinctive," said Indianapolis architect Tad Lupton, president of the American Institute of Architects' local chapter.
Architects insist the skyline reflects a city's vitality as much as vision.
"These buildings are really an understanding of what our community has come to be," adds William Browne Jr., head of Ratio Architects.
"We're no longer Indiana-noplace. We're a destination city," said Browne, whose firm is designing the Indiana Convention Center expansion. "There's a recognition that people are becoming proud of this place."

Goal: distinctive
Architects not involved in the project say there's enough time to give the hotel an appealing design without driving up the budget. Groundbreaking is set for 2008 and completion in 2010.
"One doesn't necessarily have to have good architecture. It just needs to be distinctive architecture," said Jon Coddington, head of Ball State University's architecture school.
Distinctive style shows thought given to the look of the building's top and bottom: the shadows, balconies and recessed windows, the way the structure looks among neighboring buildings.
"It needs to be built with a timeless attitude," Browne said.
Timeless buildings fit in. For example, architects shaped a pyramidal top on Indianapolis' Chase Tower, the 49-story skyscraper completed in 1990. The design parallels the lines of the nearby Indiana World War Memorial, a massive 1902 monument at 431 N. Meridian St.
"How the facade is animated by light will be important," Coddington said. "Flat plate glass is not interesting when you walk about it. It doesn't take shadow and shade very well.
"If it is brick, the windows can be recessed a bit. This looks better. You can have balconies. That engages one's imagination. You can stand in the street and look up and imagine what it's like to be in a room looking over the river."
The street-level view may be the most important, Coddington said. Flowers, shrubs, trees, sidewalks, doorways, art and public areas, if staged well, can convey a sense of being in a special place.

The deal
Although the InterContinental team came in with 1,016 rooms and a saucy look, city officials say the square Marriott was a more sound business deal. Marriott's global reservations staff books conventions for its hotels around the world.
And there was no possibility of a land dispute pushing the project past deadline. The Marriott team controls the five-acre site, now home to a 235-room Courtyard by Marriott hotel. The InterContinental team would have had to buy the rights to the Pan Am Plaza and the garage underneath.
The city's bond bank, set up in the 1980s to help finance the revitalization of Downtown, expects to sign a letter of intent with the Marriott developers in the next few days. The letter will spell out the deal in broad terms, Lawrence said.
The details will be negotiated in January for a project agreement expected to be completed in February. In that agreement, the city will define key matters, including the hotel's look and size. City officials expect 1,000 rooms and 30 floors.
The public-finance group at Indianapolis law firm Baker & Daniels has been hired as the city's adviser on writing the agreement. Meanwhile, the architects are beginning to design the hotel.
"This is the schematic design phase, putting more pencil to paper," said Jeremey Stephenson, REI business development director. "It'll be a nice design and one that certainly is somewhat striking to the skyline."
For many, though, bold architectural statements fail to resonate as they once did.
"The proliferation of electronic media has made our culture increasingly an interior culture," said Steven Mannheimer, professor of informatics at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis and former architecture critic for The Indianapolis Star. "My students live their life through computer screens rather than walking around a public square."

Cutting-edge
Yet cities are intent on putting up flamboyant buildings.
Museum Place -- 62 stories of hotel, condo and office space set to tower over Louisville, Ky., in 2010 -- is thought by some critics to be among the dozen most significant designs under way in the world. In Nashville, Tenn., the planned Signature Towers would rise 65 stories, 1,047 feet high -- taller than rival Atlanta's.
Not to be outdone, Chicago developers have proffered plans for the world's tallest building: 400 North Lakeshore, 124 stories, 2,000 feet tall.
While fans of architecture may rave about Louisville's proposed $465 million tower, Lawrence contends Indianapolis is building its economy as much as its skyline.
The city is putting up a $1 billion airport and terminal project even as it bolsters its tourism, entertainment and convention trade by spending $1.2 billion in public and private money on a Downtown hotel, Convention Center expansion and new football stadium.
"From the time a person lands at the airport, they'll go into a new terminal, go to a convention center that is brand new and state of the art. Some of the exhibits could be in a brand-new football stadium. And they'll have the ability to stay in a brand-new 1,000-room hotel," Lawrence said. "It says a lot about this city."

This gives me some hope. I do agree that a tall tower well designed at the street level could really extend downtown into White River State Park area. Also, I have always believed that the indoor waterpark will be another great addition to the attractions at WRSP. If the developer was smart and really wants to leave his mark on the city he would exceed the city and others expectations with the redesign. I guess we will have to wait until March to see if they can really do something grand.

March?!? :bash:

"This is the schematic design phase, putting more pencil to paper," said Jeremey Stephenson, REI business development director. "It'll be a nice design and one that certainly is somewhat striking to the skyline."
"Somewhat striking"?!! What the hell is that supposed to mean? Somewhat striking sounds like a euphemism for boring. I'll hold out judgement for now. Like cwilson, I'm also resigned to the JW-M at this point while still holding out hope for something great.

I'm in Dallas for Christmas and just went to a Stars game at AA Arena last night. The exterior is quite similar to what I imagine the exterior of LOS will look like and it looks absolutely amazing at night. If LOS ends up even half as striking as AA Arena, we're in for something special.

I'm glad a better design is being demanded... taller and more appealing. Like everyone else, I won't hold my breath though. I do agree that it is a good location for a big hotel... near the museums, park, convention center, and victory feild... We'll see. I wonder if it'll really impact the skyline for the better, if at all. A recent article spoke about the great view of the skyline the WRSP has, a big bland box better not block it.

and PS, the other day I recieved the copy and paste reply from the mayor's office everyone else got.

I drove Washington/Maryland street east last night and paid special attention to the hotel site. A 30+ story building with walkways criscrossing West street and connecting the convention center to White River State park will be awesome actually... I just wish we could have both projects...

An Artsgarden like structure, perhaps open air, over the whole intersection would be frickin amazing. Probably will never happen.

http://www.247selfdrive.com/Car_Rental_Indianapolis-Skyline.jpg

This pic gives a nice view of both sites. It still seems to me that the Pan Am site is the most logical for a high rise. I hope the Marriott doesn't seem awkward and out of place. From looking at this pic it seems so far away from any other significant structure.

I think the Marriott is going to look horrible from the east and west sides, north and south won't look too bad. I'm afraid it's going to have an almost Renaissance Center effect on the skyline.

I think the Marriott is going to look horrible from the east and west sides, north and south won't look too bad. I'm afraid it's going to have an almost Renaissance Center effect on the skyline.

I don't think that it'll be as bad as the Rencen, mostly because it won't be all that big. It won't look great from most skyline shots, but drive East on Washington onto Maryland, and you'll see how dramatic the project could look from that entrance to downtown. I'm pretty confident that from street level it'll look good.

http://www.247selfdrive.com/Car_Rental_Indianapolis-Skyline.jpg

This pic gives a nice view of both sites. It still seems to me that the Pan Am site is the most logical for a high rise. I hope the Marriott doesn't seem awkward and out of place. From looking at this pic it seems so far away from any other significant structure.

Whoa! I wasn't aware that the new hotel is going to be so far away from the other buildings. That's bullshit! Now I can see why you guys were so upset.

I'm in Dallas for Christmas and just went to a Stars game at AA Arena last night. The exterior is quite similar to what I imagine the exterior of LOS will look like and it looks absolutely amazing at night. If LOS ends up even half as striking as AA Arena, we're in for something special.

Thanks for the tip on AA arena. I hadn't heard about it before, but it looks beautiful. Is it better than Conseco Fieldhouse? Shudder to think...

Whoa! I wasn't aware that the new hotel is going to be so far away from the other buildings. That's bullshit! Now I can see why you guys were so upset.
Actually that is a pretty old photo. The convention center now extends to the corner next to Victory Field and the parking lot next to the garage is a new Marriott hotel. (I believe its about 20 stories) So that area has pretty much developed already. This project will be a great connector to all the attractions at White River State Park and downtown and convention center area. Now we just have to see what it will look like and how tall it will be. I will say the Indoor waterpark is going to be a great addition to all the attractions at WRSP (NCAA Hall of Champions, State Museum (Imax), Eteljorg, Canal, Riverfront, Zoo, Gardens and the RCA Tennis Center.

Building a stadium
An update on construction of Lucas Oil Stadium, set for completion in 2008

What's going on?
Work on the superstructure continues six days a week with a partial second shift. Cast-in-place concrete work on Quads A and D is largely complete, while still more of that work remains on Quads B and C. For the roof, workers have completed the Quad A supercolumn and set exterior towers for the first two Quad A transverse trusses.

What's next?
The plan calls for completing cast-in-place concrete superstructure work in Quad C in January. Workers also plan to start roof structural steel work in that quad next month, among other tasks.

Any problems?
The weather has been problematic. Rain has made the site muddy, and winds have slowed some of the work done by crane.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20061217&Kategori=LOCAL19&Lopenr=612170363&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=500&MaxH=400&Site=BG&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0
Building up: The view from the north end of Lucas Oil Stadium showed steel supports (foreground) Thursday.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061217/LOCAL19/612170363/1006/LOCAL

Building a library
An update on the Central Library project, set for completion in late 2007


What's going on?
The library board awarded a $1.5 million contract to Minnesota-based Aduddell Restoration to repair concrete beams in the parking garage with shotcrete and carbon-fiber reinforcement. The work is expected to take place between January and April.

What's next?
The completion of the Atrium roof and permanent heat to the historic Cret building allow interior finish work to continue without temporary heating units. Within two months, work on a permanent freight elevator should be complete, allowing removal of the large hoist on the east side and completion of the exterior steel panels.

Any problems?
The architect and marble installer are working to find the best stone match for the openings between the historic Cret building and the new Atrium. Garage repairs have progressed, but the construction management team reported they won't be complete until at least August.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20061224&Kategori=LOCAL19&Lopenr=612240389&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=500&MaxH=400&Site=BG&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0
Progress: The south wall of the Atrium connects to the Cret building. The Cret's exterior wall was recently removed.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061224/LOCAL19/612240389/1006/LOCAL

Shiel Sexton to give city block extreme makeover
Historic home of VanAusdall & Farrar gets new life

Shiel Sexton Co. Inc. is continuing its downtown redevelopment spree with plans to turn an entire city block into an office complex that could include some retail space.

The Indianapolis contractor bought the block at auction this fall when its former owner, local office equipment distributor VanAusdall & Farrar Inc., moved to offices at 75th Street and Binford Boulevard.

Bounded by 12th, Meridian, 13th and Illinois streets, the 2.9-acre property houses four buildings, three of which are clustered along Meridian Street. The fourth, a warehouse, stretches along 12th Street.

Preliminary plans call for a one-story building on Meridian Street to be razed early next year, making room for additional parking and a new entry and façade at a two-story office building at the northern edge of the property.

Then, Shiel Sexton will tackle the centerpiece of the parcel—a four-story structure built in 1919 that was once home to a Lexington Automobile Co. showroom.

Gutting and rehabbing the 48,000-square-foot building will cost at least $4 million not including tenant improvements, said Richard E. Hennessey, Shiel Sexton’s chief financial officer.

“We want to preserve the integrity of the building and really open up the interior,” Hennessey said.

One possible layout of the block calls for at least three buildings with 71,000 total square feet of office and storage space and 250 parking spaces.

Company officials also are floating the option of including a drive-through-type retail space on the western end of the block that could be a good fit for either a bank or a pharmacy.

Shiel Sexton closed on the parcel—now dubbed “The Lexington at Meridian”—on Dec.15. Hennessey declined to disclose the price, but VanAusdall & Farrar originally listed the property for $4.5 million.

This is the third neighborhood project that Shiel Sexton has tackled since the late 1990s, when it renovated 902 N. Capitol Ave. for its headquarters.

In 2005, the company partnered with Gregory & Appel Insurance to rehab 1402 N. Capitol Ave. The 60,000-square-foot building is now 95-percent leased.

The Lexington at Meridian is Shiel Sexton’s first completely speculative renovation. The space is being marketed by Patrick Lindley and John Crisp, principals at the local office of St. Louis-based Colliers Turley Martin Tucker.

And Shiel Sexton isn’t the only entity pouring money into redevelopment just north of Interstate 65.

“Interest has really picked up along Meridian Street,” said Amy Kotzbauer, president of the Near North Community Development Corp.

At 1530 N. Meridian St., locally based Sandor Development Corp. has demolished an Econo Lodge hotel to build a Walgreens and possibly some new office space.

At 1352 N. Illinois St., work is progressing on Michaelis Corp.’s renovation of a 40,000-square-foot building that once housed a dry cleaner.

“We hope to move in there by the middle of 2007,” said co-owner Richard Michaelis.

And the WFYI TelePlex is eyeing another building in the area. Its board has given preliminary approval to a plan to move the public broadcaster’s offices to 1630 N. Meridian St. if a purchase agreement can be finalized.

Formerly the headquarters of Indiana Energy Inc., the 94,000-square-foot building and its 430 parking spaces have been nearly vacant since the utility merged into Evansville-based Vectren Corp. in 2000.

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/12/25/5/Img/Pc0050200.jpg
Shiel Sexton plans to invest at least $4 million to renovate a historic 1919 building at 12th and Meridian streets. Work should begin early next year.

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=SUJKLzIwMDYvMTIvMjUjQXIwMDUwMA==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

The Central Library atrium is looking great. Can't wait for that expansion to be complete!

Shiel Sexton to give city block extreme makeover
Historic home of VanAusdall & Farrar gets new life

Shiel Sexton Co. Inc. is continuing its downtown redevelopment spree with plans to turn an entire city block into an office complex that could include some retail space.

The Indianapolis contractor bought the block at auction this fall when its former owner, local office equipment distributor VanAusdall & Farrar Inc., moved to offices at 75th Street and Binford Boulevard.

Bounded by 12th, Meridian, 13th and Illinois streets, the 2.9-acre property houses four buildings, three of which are clustered along Meridian Street. The fourth, a warehouse, stretches along 12th Street.

Preliminary plans call for a one-story building on Meridian Street to be razed early next year, making room for additional parking and a new entry and façade at a two-story office building at the northern edge of the property.

Then, Shiel Sexton will tackle the centerpiece of the parcel—a four-story structure built in 1919 that was once home to a Lexington Automobile Co. showroom.

Gutting and rehabbing the 48,000-square-foot building will cost at least $4 million not including tenant improvements, said Richard E. Hennessey, Shiel Sexton’s chief financial officer.

“We want to preserve the integrity of the building and really open up the interior,” Hennessey said.

One possible layout of the block calls for at least three buildings with 71,000 total square feet of office and storage space and 250 parking spaces.

Company officials also are floating the option of including a drive-through-type retail space on the western end of the block that could be a good fit for either a bank or a pharmacy.

Shiel Sexton closed on the parcel—now dubbed “The Lexington at Meridian”—on Dec.15. Hennessey declined to disclose the price, but VanAusdall & Farrar originally listed the property for $4.5 million.

This is the third neighborhood project that Shiel Sexton has tackled since the late 1990s, when it renovated 902 N. Capitol Ave. for its headquarters.

In 2005, the company partnered with Gregory & Appel Insurance to rehab 1402 N. Capitol Ave. The 60,000-square-foot building is now 95-percent leased.

The Lexington at Meridian is Shiel Sexton’s first completely speculative renovation. The space is being marketed by Patrick Lindley and John Crisp, principals at the local office of St. Louis-based Colliers Turley Martin Tucker.

And Shiel Sexton isn’t the only entity pouring money into redevelopment just north of Interstate 65.

“Interest has really picked up along Meridian Street,” said Amy Kotzbauer, president of the Near North Community Development Corp.

At 1530 N. Meridian St., locally based Sandor Development Corp. has demolished an Econo Lodge hotel to build a Walgreens and possibly some new office space.

At 1352 N. Illinois St., work is progressing on Michaelis Corp.’s renovation of a 40,000-square-foot building that once housed a dry cleaner.

“We hope to move in there by the middle of 2007,” said co-owner Richard Michaelis.

And the WFYI TelePlex is eyeing another building in the area. Its board has given preliminary approval to a plan to move the public broadcaster’s offices to 1630 N. Meridian St. if a purchase agreement can be finalized.

Formerly the headquarters of Indiana Energy Inc., the 94,000-square-foot building and its 430 parking spaces have been nearly vacant since the utility merged into Evansville-based Vectren Corp. in 2000.

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/12/25/5/Img/Pc0050200.jpg
Shiel Sexton plans to invest at least $4 million to renovate a historic 1919 building at 12th and Meridian streets. Work should begin early next year.

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=SUJKLzIwMDYvMTIvMjUjQXIwMDUwMA==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

Thats great! Its nice to see the reuse of another of Indy's many historical structures,
the only part I am not fond of is the drive through, but I don't think it will kill me.
Are there any other historical structures on the block?

We're going to have 2 awesome new stadiums in the NFL soon it seems. LOS and the new Dallas stadium. Can't wait to see how they turn out. BTW, when is LOS slated to open?

http://stadium.dallascowboys.com/

LOS is slated for the 2008 NFL season.

I am cracking up at all of our sig's! The bitterness is subsiding, I just didn't think that the hang-over would last this long. We do have a great and forward-moving City, it's just a shame that golden-opportunities get missed. I also think it is good that we have been able to digest the criticism this past week. Granted, best nobody from outside 'Nap come in here and slag off my City...I will have to cut them! :)



BTW, I was pleased to see the Star run pics of Signature Tower and Museum Spasm and then comment on our new "box." There have been letters printed every day in disgust since the JW was announced.