...continued from the previous thread.

Here is a link to the old thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=340675

...continued from the previous thread.

Here is a link to the old thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=340675
So, why the reset NOW?

So, why the reset NOW?

Because threads over 500 posts are to be closed and archived. That thread had over 1000 posts.

Because threads over 500 posts are to be closed and archived. That thread had over 1000 posts.
Sorry about that. We were lead to believe that you were no longer archiving since we had been over 500 for months.

Very good and interesting Indy pictorial on skyscraperpage.com. this guy even makes the National City Center/Hyatt (or whatever it's called) look good.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=118174

Oddly, skyscraperpage.com seems to frown on mentions of this site on their site. skyscrapercity.com doesn't care...

Solar system model to be built on Pennsy Trail in Cumberland

A 1:1 billion scale model of the solar system will be built on the Cumberland section of the Pennsy Trail in 2007. The approval for design and construction of the model project was given by the Cumberland Town Council at its meeting October 19th. There was originally a proposal to place the model on the Monon, and then Pogue’s Run Trail in Indianapolis, but Parker King, concept designer for the model, said, “I was working toward designing and finding financing for the model on Pogue’s Run, when I was contacted by Jeff Sheridan, Town Manager of Cumberland. Cory Wilson, Cumberland Town Planner, who had seen the project described in an Indianapolis Star article, discussed it and felt that this kind of project would be a way to make the Cumberland section of the Pennsy Trail project more unique, interesting and desirable. A meeting with Mr. Sheridan, Mark Reynold, Vice-President of the Cumberland Town Council, and Stefan Luebke of CBA, Inc., the landscape architect/trail designer for the project, went very well with much enthusiasm expressed for the concept. At that point, I also realized how much I would like the project to be accurate not only in scale orbital distance and object size, but also to be more accurate in the scale walking distances and better for bike travel, more difficult prospects on the circuitous, gravel Pogue’s Run Trail.”
The Cumberland plan includes building a linear model, at 1:1 billion scale, starting just south of East Washington Street on German Church Road and continuing east for just under 3 miles. “The model construction will include stations, or nodes, for the Sun, the 8 classical planets, to Neptune, as well as the newly-designated dwarf planet, Ceres, that orbits in the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. There will also be an eleventh station halfway in the 1 mile stretch between Uranus and Neptune paying tribute to the “Solar System Pioneers”, the spacecraft that have vastly improved our knowledge of the solar system. As the trail continues eastward, other dwarf planets, including Pluto, may be added. Each planet will be depicted at scale size, with a large background photo of the planetary surface features interspersed with a wealth of informative and educational text. At this scale, the Sun will be about 4 ½ feet in diameter and the Earth about the size of a dime a block away”, explained Mr. King.
“There are about 20 such scale models around the country”, said Mr. King, “but none in Indiana and none on any of the rail-trails in the US, that I know of. Building this model will make Cumberland unique in that regard and establish it as a forward-thinking community. Other benefits include challenging students of all ages with mind-stretching information about space, and getting those of us interested in science a little more exercise by walking the trail.”
If construction and funding goals are reached in a timely fashion, people will be able to visit the model in late 2007 or early 2008.



:) We have been planning and designing this for over 2 years. Construction is to finally start in the spring. Indy's portion is soon to follow, but they will be starting closer to downtown, so it could be a while before they get to German Church Road, which is where the Cumberland portion begins. Greenfield already has a few miles and there is plan to make the Pennsy part of the National Road Heritage Trail, which will run all along the National Road/US 40.

That solar system model sounds AWESOME. Go Indy!

By Amy Bartner

Developers are presenting three proposals this morning to build a 1,000-room convention hotel Downtown to Indianapolis' Hotel Selection Advisory Committee.

Mayor Bart Peterson appointed the advisory committee last month to examine the proposals and to choose which would best serve the city's increasing convention business, and a recommendation to the Indianapolis Local Improvement Bond Bank is expected in November.

The presentations are in the offices of Indianapolis Downtown, Inc., in the Chase Tower this morning.

This story will be updated.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061027/LOCAL/610270530

An expansion of the Indiana Convention Center might not include a massive ballroom that had been billed as a key part of the project.

Indianapolis Convention and Visitors Association President Bob Bedell acknowledged in an interview with IBJ on Friday that the ballroom may be stripped from the plans to help control the project's escalating cost. About $275 million has been budgeted for the project.

Bedell said the ballroom space lost in the convention center expansion could be replaced by adding it to a new hotel.

The ballroom issue was revealed this afternoon during a presentation to a city-appointed committee of proposals for a downtown convention hotel. Bedell is a committee member.

LockerbiePark120x600
The committee is charged with choosing from three proposals that would add at least 800 new hotel rooms to coincide with the opening of the convention center expansion in 2010. The winner would receive potentially lucrative incentives from the city.

Indianapolis-based Browning Investments Inc. and Milwaukee-based Marcus Corp. made a dramatic case for their skyline-altering 44-story InterContinental Hotel tower. It would include 1,016 rooms, 72 condos, two restaurants, a health club, a spa and a 36,000-square-foot ballroom.

Another partnership, between Merrillville-based White Lodging Services Corp. and Indianapolis-based REI Real Estate Services, proposed a campus of hotels near Victory Field that would include an 800-room JW Marriott convention hotel. Their plans also include a Courtyard by Marriott hotel, Springhill Suites, Fairfield Inn & Suites and a Renaissance Hotel with 24 luxury condos overlooking White River State Park.

New details also emerged Friday about the third proposal, an expansion of the downtown Westin.

White Plains, N.Y.-based Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc. is proposing adding 650 to 800 rooms within two new wings running north and south of the existing hotel, creating a "U" shape. The company did not provide a rendering.

Bedell, a member of the committee, described the Westin plan as a "fall-back" proposal: "They know they're presenting an option that's not exactly what we're asking for."

The Westin proposal does not include additional meeting space.

http://64.255.242.152/portals/6/ibjdaily/index.html

I have no fear, the Hotel Intercontinental will win. Especially now that the ballroom portion has to be part of the hotel! With it being across the street, it's a no-brainer. Besides, 72 condos is nothing to sneeze at and they will most defintely be on the top floors, providing the absolute best views of the city!!

Who in the hell would want to live over at the current Courtyard site??????

When are we going to hear a decision about this project?

When are we going to hear a decision about this project?

The article I linked earlier indicates a "recommendation" in November. There's an updated version of the article on Indystar.com but it doesn't really say anything we don't already know. Here's a link for anybody that's curious:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061027/BUSINESS/610270535

The Westin proposal is so weak -- the IBJ article from icahn says they didn't even have a rendering -- that I'm not sure why they're bothering at this point.

edit: just noticed that my profile says I have about 100 fewer posts than I had a couple days ago. They must be doing wacko things to their database.

WTHR just reported that the OMS project has been given ANOTHER extension, until Thanksgiving. I don't know if that's good or not, but the suspense is going to kill me.

They also preceded that story with one on the Convention Center Hotel proposal. The InterContinental looks really impressive. Hopefully their inclusion of the ballroom gives them enough of an edge over the others. Don't even know why Starwood (the Westin proposal) is even in the game at this point.

the video of the InterContinental shows its impact on the City. I find it harder and harder to not pick this one. It is a cool looking building.

Yep. OMS gets another extension. I can't help but see it as good news, seeing that they wouldn't request an extension if they didn't think they could come up with a plan suitable for the city, and the city wouldn't approve an extension if it didn't recognize that progress is being made.

_______________________
http://wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5600811

Indianapolis - A big project planned for downtown has been given yet another extension.

Developers planning high rise condos at the Old Market Square Arena site now have until Thanksgiving to revise their plans.

The city had set an Oct. 31st deadline, but agreed to extend it at the developers request.

Having failed to sell enough condos to break ground, they've since pulled in other developers to rework the plan.

The presentation video of the Convention Center Hotel is on indystar.com

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061027/VIDEO01/61027027

Interestingly, it's oriented differently than the renders we've previously seen. I'm guessing so that it'll block less of the skyline from Lucas Oil Stadium.

Interestingly, it's oriented differently than the renders we've previously seen. I'm guessing so that it'll block less of the skyline from Lucas Oil Stadium.
I also thought the original rendering had it oriented East-West. Most of the tallest buildings in downtown are oriented East-West, so having this one North-South should have an even greater impact on skyline depth we've been talking about, especially in the views from the East and West.

I have to laugh at the fact that the Westin didn't have a rendering and the Intercontinental had a 3 minute video. To put a slightly different spin on everyone's sentiments: how could the city possibly justify NOT choosing this tower?

http://www.oongawa.com/dt/ic1.jpg

http://www.oongawa.com/dt/ic2.jpg

http://www.oongawa.com/dt/ic3.jpg

http://www.oongawa.com/dt/ic4.jpg

The architect for the Inter-Continental is the same as the stadium (http://www.hksinc.com/).

Removing the ballroom from the convention center expansion would be short-sighted. The expansion should also accommodate future vertical development by incorporating heavy-duty footers in its foundation. Somehow, I don't think either of these features will be included.

WOW! The video is impressive. Everything looks world class from the lobby to the lounge and my favorite, the view from the pool.

I would shit on myself if the City didn't pick this proposal. They'd have to be stupid as hell NOT to pick it. But I know Bart is anxious to bring the most ooh and ahh to Indy and I'm sure he and the Council will do the right thing.

The video was fascinating to say the least. The architects did a spectacular job incorporating the "people" into the shots. Once again, this is a no-brainer. There is height with the building and its orientation is not nearly as bad as I thought it would be in relation to the street.

My only concern is how this will blend in at street level, particularly on the Illinois street (Union Station) side. Small shops, decent entrances, etc could go a long way into connection Union Station and Conseco Fieldhouse to the Convention center, or it could really cut it off. Any thoughts?

http://www.oongawa.com/dt/ic3.jpg

geesh...if the Marriott site was chosen over this...

The Mariott offers more rooms with more "familiar" names, but we have all of those brands now. Also, there is aready rumblings by existing hotels that competition is going to be fierce! I would suspect that they too want the fewest room option in the HI.

No one can escape the "cool" and "Wow" factor here with the HI. I agree...if it isn't chosen and we aren't seeing cranes go higher than they have in 16 years, I will protest at the City!

geesh...if the Marriott site was chosen over this...

The Mariott offers more rooms with more "familiar" names, but we have all of those brands now. Also, there is aready rumblings by existing hotels that competition is going to be fierce! I would suspect that they too want the fewest room option in the HI.

No one can escape the "cool" and "Wow" factor here with the HI. I agree...if it isn't chosen and we aren't seeing cranes go higher than they have in 16 years, I will protest at the City!

I'll be right there with you if that happens. I've been reading through the discussion forums at the IBJ, and it seems that all the ice skaters in the city are up in arms about the possiblity of losing the Pan Am Plaza rinks. Hopefully they don't have too much clout...

I'll be right there with you if that happens. I've been reading through the discussion forums at the IBJ, and it seems that all the ice skaters in the city are up in arms about the possiblity of losing the Pan Am Plaza rinks. Hopefully they don't have too much clout...

If I remember correctly, the skating association was asked to leave many months ago. I don't know why this would be a surprise to any of them..

The city will chose the INTERCONTINENTAL HOTEL. I have very little doubt about that. Now if they can get the OMS site off the ground along the redue of the Old Indiana Bank tower Indy truly will be ready to take another major step in its development of downtown and its urban environment.

Im interested to see what will go on with the Indiana Bank building.

Im interested to see what will go on with the Indiana Bank building.

That one's killing me too... They did say they would have it done within a year of the storm, so we should hear something soon.. I can't imagine that they want to wait much longer.

love love love IH

will the hotel hide the view of the soldiers and sailors monument from the stadium...?

will the hotel hide the view of the soldiers and sailors monument from the stadium...?

A quick glance at maps.google.com shows that yes, it will likely totally block that view. It's unlikely that it was very visible before though.

I really like the tower in the INTERCONTINENTAL proposal but the building's pedestal leaves much to be desired. The extremely short pedestal and the placement of the tower will make this building contribute very little at the street level. Sure it will be a great addition to the skyline but with a couple simple alterations the buildings presence on the street could be much improved. The architecture firm that designed this building and the stadium seems to do a good job of designing building facades, but they don't seem to understand urban environments. Considering the city is chipping in so much money for this project, they should request a few changes in the massing of the building.

I agree that the tower would look better up along the street, but it appears as if the "base" is a couple of stories tall, which will still be better than most.

Carmel arts hall to put on the ritz if donors pony up
Mayor says $40M to $60M can buy fancier floors, glass canopy and more

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BG&Date=20061031&Category=LOCAL&ArtNo=610310431&Ref=AR&MaxW=200&Q=60&Border=0

CARMEL, Ind. -- The Carmel Performing Arts Center will be fashioned along the lines of an Italian villa, with multiple entrances and lobbies, new designs show.
But the generosity of private donors will determine the options: whether the center is built with limestone or stucco and whether its lobbies are finished with marble or tile.
Donations from $40 million to $60 million also could buy a glass canopy that would lower from the ceiling to alter sound, a cafe, a skylight and warming kitchens.
Today, Mayor Jim Brainard will unveil designs he'll use to try to raise millions more than the $80 million Carmel has borrowed in order to make the building into an Indianapolis-area landmark.
The new designs show a 10-story arts center that would alter the city's downtown skyline by 2010. Architect David M. Schwarz said, "This building will be a centerpiece, a very important part of that town."
Schwarz has designed four performing arts centers, including the 1,900-seat Schermerhorn Symphony Center, a $123.5 million facility that opened Sept. 9 in Nashville, Tenn.
The Carmel City Council approved borrowing $80 million for the 1,600-seat concert hall last year and is counting on $10 million in interest. That loan would be repaid with property taxes generated from new development near the concert hall.
The mayor has determined $90 million is not enough to put together the arts center he thinks Carmel should have.
Brainard said the city's consultants are determining the cost of added amenities and finishes.
He previously said the city would seek $25 million for naming rights and that each of the concert hall's 51 private boxes would be available in perpetuity for an average price of $1 million.
"This is new territory for me, and I don't have a background in fundraising, but what it really amounts to is talking to people who have done well and who have an interest in the arts," Brainard said. "We're suggesting they give back to the community in a very lasting way."
While Brainard's quest to build a concert hall has been widely supported by arts activists in affluent Carmel, the project has had detractors who disagree with spending so much on a public project.
Mark Rattermann was one of three City Council members who voted against the plan when it was approved 4-3 in May 2005. Rattermann said he's impressed with the building's design but is still glad he voted against it.
"This is opulent, lavish, and if we were using automobiles to describe this, like Chevrolet, Mercedes, BMW -- this is a Bentley," Rattermann said. "This is the best of the best. It's not something I'd build. I'm more of a Chevrolet kind of guy."
Rattermann said he doubts Brainard can raise the money he wants.
"I'm not real confident he's going to raise the money, but I'm real confident he's going to build it," he said. "I hope he can get a lot of people to put a lot of money into this, but I don't think he's going to be very successful."

I agree that the tower would look better up along the street, but it appears as if the "base" is a couple of stories tall, which will still be better than most.

I had assumed that the base of the building was mostly a parking garage with street level retail. Am I wrong about that?

Fancier floors? Glass canopy?

I am starting to despise Carmel more and more...

Here is a photo from the "Stadium Cam" showing the great progress of LOS:

http://www2.indystar.com/users/special/stadium_cam/webcam.jpg

That one's killing me too... They did say they would have it done within a year of the storm, so we should hear something soon.. I can't imagine that they want to wait much longer.
I work in the lobby of the Regions Tower. Management is still being mum on everything. I'll post here as soon as I find out something.

I had assumed that the base of the building was mostly a parking garage with street level retail. Am I wrong about that?
Here's the blurb from the indystar about the Intercontinental:

INTERCONTINENTAL HOTEL
• Size: 44 stories.
• Rooms: 1,016 (216 of which would be used by Preferred Hotels) and 72 condominiums.
• Parking: 1,384 spaces in a newly constructed underground garage on the site.
• Challenge: Site must be acquired from Indiana Sports Corp.

I am being told that the height of the InterCOntinental is right at 600' tall or approximately 183M. This is a from a friend at the City, and this was from "memory," not the "plans."

Here is a photo from the "Stadium Cam" showing the great progress of LOS:

http://www2.indystar.com/users/special/stadium_cam/webcam.jpg

A better image and live webcam can be found on colts.com

http://oxblue.com/archive/8252a53cdf135347c0dd1d16228b6ff2/1024x768.jpg?area=hotitems

Is it true that Hollywood Bar and Filmworks has closed down for good as of yesterday? It's a shame if so. I've never been a huge fan of the place, but it was a fun dive to go to every once in a while. I know the owner personally... unfortunately... and he's a real jackass. I remember when he was arrested for assaulting a parking attendant because the attendant wouldn't let his customers park for free...

Actually, the best image for viewing the tremendous progress at LOS is not via the colts.com website, but by going to the Oxblue camera directly via a link at the Indiana Convention Center and RCA Dome. The link at the colts.com website is an archived image, taken every 20 minutes or so and the resolution is only 1024 x 768. This link will enable you to access the Oxblue construction cam directly, and the view can zoom, pan and save, as well as go back in time to view archived images.

http://www.iccrd.com/stdm/index.aspx

There is also a link to a live webcam, however it's image quality is low.

The stadium is moving along on schedule according to Hunt and The Stadium and Convention Building Authorithy. If they can stay on budget, which does not look likely, they may be able to afford some nice finishing touches in the details which will help even further in creating a state of the art stadium for football and more. Once the HKS designed Intercontintal Hotel gets final approval and breaks ground, that part of town will be buzzing with exictement. It will be a great catalyst for further development.

I am being told that the height of the InterCOntinental is right at 600' tall or approximately 183M. This is a from a friend at the City, and this was from "memory," not the "plans."

Geez.. that's a full 60' taller than the One America tower... That with the newly cladded and soon to be taller One Indiana Square tower and the hopefully 500-600 foot Penn tower, The One America tower could be only the 5th tallest building in Indy.

And I'm absolutely sure that the new OMS redesign will be at least 700 foot tall... right?

I really like the tower in the INTERCONTINENTAL proposal but the building's pedestal leaves much to be desired. The extremely short pedestal and the placement of the tower will make this building contribute very little at the street level. Sure it will be a great addition to the skyline but with a couple simple alterations the buildings presence on the street could be much improved. The architecture firm that designed this building and the stadium seems to do a good job of designing building facades, but they don't seem to understand urban environments. Considering the city is chipping in so much money for this project, they should request a few changes in the massing of the building.

My thoughts exactly. I think we are all focusing too much on how the building interacts with the downtown as a whole (generally well) and not how it will be experienced at street level. How will this integrate the existing downtown street fabric?

Fancier floors? Glass canopy?

I am starting to despise Carmel more and more...

I'm sorry, but thats one of the dumber things I've read on here. You despise Carmel because they are attempting to build a world class facility? Do you despise Indianapolis for building a world class football stadium?

My thoughts exactly. I think we are all focusing too much on how the building interacts with the downtown as a whole (generally well) and not how it will be experienced at street level. How will this integrate the existing downtown street fabric?

There is supposed to be retail in the project. So hopefully, its street level retail.

I'm sorry, but thats one of the dumber things I've read on here. You despise Carmel because they are attempting to build a world class facility? Do you despise Indianapolis for building a world class football stadium?

I'm guessing that comment was a bit tongue in cheek...

I'm sorry, but thats one of the dumber things I've read on here. You despise Carmel because they are attempting to build a world class facility? Do you despise Indianapolis for building a world class football stadium?

Actually I do. The Dome could have lasted easily eight more years. But, a new dome was fairly predictable.

What I should have said was that I despised Carmel's elected officials. I was referring to the fact that Brainard wanted an additional $40-60 million for floor, ceiling, skylights, etc. in upgrades. Upgrades being the key word, I never said anything about their attempts at building a world class facility. Matter of fact from what I've seen I think that the facility is very nice as it already is and will become a local landmark, but come on. Does it really matter if the floor is marble or tile? I could see if the facility was a few years old or something like that.

And for the record, there are more things I despise about Indianapolis' elected officials than about Carmel's.

Is it true that Hollywood Bar and Filmworks has closed down for good as of yesterday? It's a shame if so. I've never been a huge fan of the place, but it was a fun dive to go to every once in a while. I know the owner personally... unfortunately... and he's a real jackass. I remember when he was arrested for assaulting a parking attendant because the attendant wouldn't let his customers park for free...
WHAT?! I love that place and it's the only theater I ever go to to see movies!

Please tell me this isn't true.

Actually I do. The Dome could have lasted easily eight more years. But, a new dome was fairly predictable.

What I should have said was that I despised Carmel's elected officials. I was referring to the fact that Brainard wanted an additional $40-60 million for floor, ceiling, skylights, etc. in upgrades. Upgrades being the key word, I never said anything about their attempts at building a world class facility. Matter of fact from what I've seen I think that the facility is very nice as it already is and will become a local landmark, but come on. Does it really matter if the floor is marble or tile? I could see if the facility was a few years old or something like that.

And for the record, there are more things I despise about Indianapolis' elected officials than about Carmel's.

I'm with you on both counts Naptown - both cities should aim to build strong, solid buildings and institutions, but the priorities seem so out of whack. Mayor Peterson spending so much time to get a football stadium built, while opposing bonds for IPS? And how exactly can it be that the city owes almost the entire cost of the now-obsolete RCA Dome, 22 years after construction was finished?

I'm with you on both counts Naptown - both cities should aim to build strong, solid buildings and institutions, but the priorities seem so out of whack. Mayor Peterson spending so much time to get a football stadium built, while opposing bonds for IPS? And how exactly can it be that the city owes almost the entire cost of the now-obsolete RCA Dome, 22 years after construction was finished?
Woah there. Owes the entire cost? The Hoosier Dome was built for the same dollar amount as the current dept, but that doesn't mean those numbers are equal. When you adjust for inflation, the Hoosier Dome would be about 2-3 times more expensive in today's dollars, so we only owe 1/3 to 1/2 of the orignal bill. Plus, the original bill wasn't even scheduled to be paid off until 2013. A little refinancing pushed it off to 2020.

In terms of real dollars, the city got totally manhandled by the Colts in the lease terms for LOS. If you want to get up in arms about something, that's a a much bigger deal.

So who here on this board is 'naptownman' on OKC Talk and OkMet...the fellow who is moving to OKC Nov. 5th...

WHAT?! I love that place and it's the only theater I ever go to to see movies!

Please tell me this isn't true.

I tried calling their number today, and got no answer or voice mail. I know for a fact that it's been having trouble lately, which the owner has been blaming on parking expenses. He may have a point, I mean, it's the only theatre in town that doesn't have it's own free parking, in fact it has no parking lot at all, but that really isn't the reason he can't make money... truth is, it's just not the best location for a business of this type.

Woah there. Owes the entire cost? The Hoosier Dome was built for the same dollar amount as the current dept, but that doesn't mean those numbers are equal. When you adjust for inflation, the Hoosier Dome would be about 2-3 times more expensive in today's dollars, so we only owe 1/3 to 1/2 of the orignal bill. Plus, the original bill wasn't even scheduled to be paid off until 2013. A little refinancing pushed it off to 2020.

In terms of real dollars, the city got totally manhandled by the Colts in the lease terms for LOS. If you want to get up in arms about something, that's a a much bigger deal.

True, in "real" dollars, RCA costs less today than it did when it was built, but I was still struck by the fact that, in a sense, the principal has not been touch - it's all been refinanced and extended and so forth...So, the city borrowed around $80million 25 years ago, and today owes almost the same dollar amount. I agree too that the city got manhandled on LOS - I loved the tango of embarrassment city officials danced when explaining what the Colts were paying. It came out to, about, zero, right?

I tried calling their number today, and got no answer or voice mail. I know for a fact that it's been having trouble lately, which the owner has been blaming on parking expenses. He may have a point, I mean, it's the only theatre in town that doesn't have it's own free parking, in fact it has no parking lot at all, but that really isn't the reason he can't make money... truth is, it's just not the best location for a business of this type.
I tried calling after I read your post and also got no answer. Their online schedule for movie showings is usually updated on Tuesdays and so far it hasn't been updated for next week. Bad signs.

Funny that parking is the issue...I go there at least every-other week and I almost always get on-street parking within 2 blocks. If I don't, I pony up a couple bucks to park in the Union Station garage next door.

I'll be very sad if it's really gone.

True, in "real" dollars, RCA costs less today than it did when it was built, but I was still struck by the fact that, in a sense, the principal has not been touch - it's all been refinanced and extended and so forth...So, the city borrowed around $80million 25 years ago, and today owes almost the same dollar amount.
The RCA Dome dept is a bit of a shocker on the surface, but I don't get the impression that there's anything egregiously wrong going on there.

I agree too that the city got manhandled on LOS - I loved the tango of embarrassment city officials danced when explaining what the Colts were paying. It came out to, about, zero, right?
Yeah, basically! I think there was a lease termination fee the city paid to the Colts that was similar to the amount the Colts chipped into the construction costs (I don't remember the exact numbers). The kicker is the amount of money the Colts stand to make from events at LOS that have nothing to do with the Colts. That kills me!

Is the parking in the proposed Intercontinential hotel supposed to be underground or is it in the pedestal?

Ok, today was the monthly meeting for the IRTC, which is in charge of Indy's future Light Rail!!! Here is where everything stands.

-The Indy LRT is in the FTA (Feds) "New Starts Progam." Specifically, we are a "Large Starts" designation as our system will be exstensive. This is very competitive and there are a number of things that the City has to do to "score" high enough for the federal $$. We are working very closely with the FTA and feedback has been good, so, we will have a system, I am positive.

-The City did have to go back and address some issues with some early forecasts and those will be wrapped-up by the end of this month.

-The Environmental Impact Study is being finalized and all looks in order fore the NorthEast Corridor.

-We will have to complete a regional land use study, which basically designates TOD (transit-oriented development) along the proposed corridor and creates a specific metro-wide policy for TOD.

-In May 2007 (est.) is when "we" will select the "locally prefered option," with regards to the specific route. After we choose this, we are then to complete 10% of the engineering and design of the first route. This is done in conjunction with the FTA.

-Funding - we are looking at an income tax increase for the metro. I would expect that the 2007 GA will get something on this and it will probably go for vote in 2008. After that, construction. We could, being very optimistic, see an operational line by 2010-2011, just in time for the Final Four.

- In the meantime, we are progressing on the Transit Center and it looks like the site (Postal Service) is almost "acquired." I am confident that it will be there. Express bus is coming very soon. This will be similar to the very-successful "hyper-fix" lines that ran during the I-65/I-70 rebuild.

-and finally, IndyGo is working on a "different" style of bus for the downtown circulators, possibly even a trolley.

Damnit, it's official. I still don't believe parking is the issue. There's free street parking around there, $3 at Union Station or $1.50 a couple blocks away at the mall. Plus it's been there for 15 years! It survived before Circle Centre existed. It's just amazing to me that the downtown market could have changed for the negative for an entertainment venue like this. Hopefully somebody else snatches up this space and reopens it. I think street level visibility is its biggest problem.

Hollywood Bar & Filmworks closes

Fifteen years after Hollywood Bar & Filmworks opened in Downtown Indianapolis, the theater has closed.

Owner Ted Bulthaup said revenue has been sliding since early 2000, shortly after Conseco Fieldhouse opened. He says higher prices for parking drove away customers who increasingly went for movies in the suburbs.

Hollywood Bar & Filmworks will live on in some incarnation. In Chicago, Bulthaup runs Hollywood Boulevard Cinema – modeled after Hollywood Bar & Filmworks.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061101/BUSINESS/61101030

-and finally, IndyGo is working on a "different" style of bus for the downtown circulators, possibly even a trolley.

It's about time. It's shocking how few people know about the blue and red lines. Maybe this will get it some publicity. I don't mind a trolley type bus... I think they're kinda silly... but if it makes it easier to recognize, and/or makes people want to ride the thing it's fine.

Why are there two circulators anyway? Just to make things confusing? Why not just expand the blue line's route and add busses?

Damnit, it's official. I still don't believe parking is the issue. There's free street parking around there, $3 at Union Station or $1.50 a couple blocks away at the mall. Plus it's been there for 15 years! It survived before Circle Centre existed. It's just amazing to me that the downtown market could have changed for the negative for an entertainment venue like this. Hopefully somebody else snatches up this space and reopens it. I think street level visibility is its biggest problem.

Hollywood Bar & Filmworks closes

Fifteen years after Hollywood Bar & Filmworks opened in Downtown Indianapolis, the theater has closed.

Owner Ted Bulthaup said revenue has been sliding since early 2000, shortly after Conseco Fieldhouse opened. He says higher prices for parking drove away customers who increasingly went for movies in the suburbs.

Hollywood Bar & Filmworks will live on in some incarnation. In Chicago, Bulthaup runs Hollywood Boulevard Cinema – modeled after Hollywood Bar & Filmworks.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061101/BUSINESS/61101030

You're right, parking isn't the issue. It's because it doesn't have a street level lobby. There are plenty of places downtown where it would be viable. Ted Bulthaup is a dumbass.

Indianapolis is growing faster than Chicago, Grand Rapids or any of the other 10 largest metro area in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin, according to an analysis by Bill Testa, chief economist of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. The Indianapolis-area population swelled 27 percent from 1990 to 2005, Testa pointed out in a recent blog. The region added 346,000 people in the period.

source: IBJ http://www.ibj.com/html/detail_page.asp?content=168

Indianapolis is growing faster than Chicago, Grand Rapids or any of the other 10 largest metro area in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin, according to an analysis by Bill Testa, chief economist of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. The Indianapolis-area population swelled 27 percent from 1990 to 2005, Testa pointed out in a recent blog. The region added 346,000 people in the period.

source: IBJ http://www.ibj.com/html/detail_page.asp?content=168


Yes, every 5 years Indy adds another 100,000 + people. Pretty darn good for Indiana. By 2020 we should jump past Cincy and KC in metro size, especially when Madison County is again placed in the MSA.

You're right, parking isn't the issue. It's because it doesn't have a street level lobby. There are plenty of places downtown where it would be viable. Ted Bulthaup is a dumbass.

Wow that is a BIG loss for downtown! I am hoping downtowns around the region start getting the multiplex theatres and urban Tagets, etc that downtown residents want. So far, places like Indy still have a "niche" downtown housing market. To really attract the masses, you have to be able to offer all the suburban "amenities."

Are there any other small theatres showing off beat films like the Rocky Horror Picture Show in downtown Indy?

Mayor Peterson spending so much time to get a football stadium built, while opposing bonds for IPS?

I'm pretty sure he supported the IPS bond issue.

Are there any other small theatres showing off beat films like the Rocky Horror Picture Show in downtown Indy?

Sick. hah. Rocky.. good times. Its still played somewhere else in Indy right?

I'm pretty sure he supported the IPS bond issue.

My mistake - According to Kerry, my kind might well end up in Iraq...

My mistake - According to Kerry, my kind might well end up in Iraq...

Thats pretty ridiculous. According to any of Bush's botched jokes... well, we'll not start.

Indianapolis - Developers worry that downtown Indianapolis could wind up with too many high rise condos.

Two of the proposals for a convention center hotel include condos on the top floors. The Intercontinental at Pan Am plaza calls for 72 luxury units, while the JW Marriott calls for two dozen. Meantime, a high-rise project planned for Market Square struggles to get off the ground.

Still, the mayor says the more the better. "Probably have some competition but at the end of the day Indianapolis can handle that. If there was a proposal to put 400-500 in a high rise a couple blocks away that might be a real significant direct competition, but no, that doesn't worry me. I think it's a good thing," Mayor Bart Peterson.

The Conrad hotel was first in Indy to include condos. It has 15 on the top six floors.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5621724

Indianapolis - Developers worry that downtown Indianapolis could wind up with too many high rise condos.

Two of the proposals for a convention center hotel include condos on the top floors. The Intercontinental at Pan Am plaza calls for 72 luxury units, while the JW Marriott calls for two dozen. Meantime, a high-rise project planned for Market Square struggles to get off the ground.

Still, the mayor says the more the better. "Probably have some competition but at the end of the day Indianapolis can handle that. If there was a proposal to put 400-500 in a high rise a couple blocks away that might be a real significant direct competition, but no, that doesn't worry me. I think it's a good thing," Mayor Bart Peterson.

The Conrad hotel was first in Indy to include condos. It has 15 on the top six floors.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5621724


I saw that and thought, WTF? I say build more and more and more. Why? They will eventually sell, but will drop to an afforable price! Besides, anything to add more residential, especially in the mile-square, we need more.

Thats pretty ridiculous. According to any of Bush's botched jokes... well, we'll not start.
Yes, I shouldn't have...

I saw that and thought, WTF? I say build more and more and more. Why? They will eventually sell, but will drop to an afforable price! Besides, anything to add more residential, especially in the mile-square, we need more.

I agree, i dont think there are 'too many' condos at all. there is a big demand for them

http://www.ihgplc.com/index.asp?PageID=6&Year=2006&NewsID=1697

Staybridge Suites® Announces Expansion Plans for Indiana
Eight-story upscale extended-stay hotel to add 113 guest suites to Indianapolis


ATLANTA (Nov. 1, 2006) – InterContinental Hotels Group, (IHG) [LON: IHG, NYSE: IHG (ADRs)], the world's largest hotel group by number of rooms announced today that plans are underway for a Staybridge Suites hotel in downtown Indianapolis, Ind. (U.S.) The new upscale extended-stay hotel is scheduled to open early 2008, and is among nearly 100 hotels in the brand’s robust Americas pipeline.

“The Staybridge Suites Indianapolis-City Centre is one of several hotels we plan to open across Indiana,” said Robert Radomski, vice president, Brand Management, Staybridge Suites. “As we approach our 100th hotel opening around the first of the year, our Americas portfolio of hotels will continue to grow in areas that are in high demand for upscale extended-stay lodging, and that includes healthy urban markets like Indianapolis.”

The upcoming all-suite hotel will feature three well-designed spacious suite options (deluxe studio, one-bedroom and two-bedroom/two-bath), incorporating spacious walk-in showers with a dual-purpose removable showerhead in most suites, high-end granite vanities, lighted make-up mirrors and elegant sconce lighting. Colors that are most widely found in new, upscale homes today will be reflected in the Staybridge Suites Indianapolis-City Centre’s chocolate décor color scheme. Also among some of today’s design trends, walnut espresso finishes bring warmth and richness to guestroom furniture. All suites will include 32" Flat Panel TV’s, in-room DVD/CD players; functional, well-lit work stations with ergonomic seating, complimentary high-speed internet access, complimentary local phone calls and two-line speaker phones with direct-dial number and personal voice mail as well as fully equipped kitchens.

Consistent with the Staybridge Suites brand, the new property will offer exceptional guest amenities including a deluxe complimentary daily breakfast buffet featuring a rotating selection of hot items as well as other healthy product offerings, complimentary guest laundry and workout facilities, a 24-hour business services center complete with computers, complimentary hi-speed Internet access and laser printers/fax machines, a guest library with books and games, and BridgeMart, the hotel’s 24-hour convenience store stocked with snacks, sundries, beverages and easy-to-prepare meals. Guests will get comfortable in the hotel’s Great Room for evening "Sundowner” receptions three days a week for complimentary refreshments, light appetizers and conversation. Guests will also enjoy the hotel’s wireless anywhere feature as well as the heated, indoor pool.

Conveniently located in downtown Indianapolis just north of I-70 (at exit 79A), the hotel site is just minutes from area businesses such as Eli Lilly, Indiana State Government Center and American United Life Insurance Company. The property is also close to key attractions such as the Indiana Convention Center and the New Lucas Oil Stadium.

“The location of this new hotel is ideal because of its close proximity to several businesses,” said Wendy Ray, general manager, Staybridge Suites Indianapolis-City Centre. “With major businesses close by, we’re able to cater to those who plan to stay for longer periods of time while traveling for business, as well as those visiting the area for its appealing tourist attractions.”

The Staybridge Suites Indianapolis-City Centre, which is owned by Missouri Hotel Partners and managed by Dora Brothers Hospitality., under a license agreement with a company in the InterContinental Hotels Group, will be located at 535 South West St., Indianapolis, Ind.


WOW...it looks like the InterContinental Group is assulting the Indy market.

No renderings :(

Dora Brothers announced this hotel quite a while ago, right? This is supposed to be linked with their new Comfort Suites with a parking garage between the two hotels.

That article screams MARKETING!

Indianapolis - An Indiana business got a new name Friday morning when Union Federal converted to the Sky Bank. The downtown signs are already changed on the outside of the building...

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5631681

Well guys I was in 757 Mass Ave building today and I was able to get into Micheal Andretti's condo that he is moving into on monday! I am so happy he decided to move down town and not in carmel or gheist lol!!! My dads company was called today to work on the 707 tower once it is finished thats the reason for the private tour at 757!!! So hopefully we can get the job and I can have all kinds of inside information... I talked to the project manager today and he pointed out the locale of the building the only thing i did not comprehend was whether this was to be a newly constructed building or a refurbished warehouse? Well, he said ground was to be broken in about two weeks, so he made it sound like it was to be newly constructed...so fingers crossed! The views from 757 are pretty tight! The top floor is amazing... There are only two units because one guy bought four and merged them together lol! But the other one was added on and has amazing roof top views... From that building you can really see the area around 757 and see how much potential it has and how dense it is going to be once all the projects and future projects are to be completed. Just thought I would share my adventure with you all. If anyone on here is looking to move into a condo down town I highly recommend either of those two projects or 3 Mass Ave, cause it really is nice even if you are only on the second floor...

I didnt know that Andretti was moving to downtown. That kinda cool.

Well guys I was in 757 Mass Ave building today and I was able to get into Micheal Andretti's condo that he is moving into on monday! I am so happy he decided to move down town and not in carmel or gheist lol!!! My dads company was called today to work on the 707 tower once it is finished thats the reason for the private tour at 757!!! So hopefully we can get the job and I can have all kinds of inside information... I talked to the project manager today and he pointed out the locale of the building the only thing i did not comprehend was whether this was to be a newly constructed building or a refurbished warehouse? Well, he said ground was to be broken in about two weeks, so he made it sound like it was to be newly constructed...so fingers crossed! The views from 757 are pretty tight! The top floor is amazing... There are only two units because one guy bought four and merged them together lol! But the other one was added on and has amazing roof top views... From that building you can really see the area around 757 and see how much potential it has and how dense it is going to be once all the projects and future projects are to be completed. Just thought I would share my adventure with you all. If anyone on here is looking to move into a condo down town I highly recommend either of those two projects or 3 Mass Ave, cause it really is nice even if you are only on the second floor...

Could anybody give me and idea as to where that is...757 that is.

"I didnt know that Andretti was moving to downtown. That kinda cool." Yep now him and his son live down town! Thats 2/3 lol!! His new wife is either a Playmate or ex-playmate, she is rather hott! :)

757 is literally on the edge of college and mass ave.

According to Emporis, we now have 380 structures listed! :) http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/ci/?id=indianapolis-in-usa

Here's a link to pics of the two new lo-rise hotels near LOS.

http://www.dorahotels.com/city_centre/city_centre.htm

Those hotels really suck! I am so disapointed in our city. The investment the city is making in LOS is going to be a complete waste. The city had no foresight and neglected to come up with a plan for the area around the stadium. Couldnt we have come up with some sort of overlay district or design guidelines for this area? Would that have been so difficult?

I can't believe we are bashing Carmel's leadership when our leadership doesn't seem to have a clue. Carmel is one of the only cities in Indiana that is really starting to understand the value of placemaking. It is encouraging it's developers to make their buildings add up to more than the sum of their parts.

Our city is sinking so much money in the stadium and isn't leveraging it to create anything of any lasting value. The stadium doesn't define the street, it unneccisarrliy fragments the street grid, and now it is promoting ugly suburban-style development.

I'm at a loss. I just don't understand what can be done to get our leaders to care about urban design and placemaking.

Yea, those dont look too much like urban hotels... more like something you would find near a highway in a town that has nothing. Weird.

Its just appaling and disgusting. I dont understand why the city cannot see this as well.

On the bright side, I just drove by the stadium on my way to work and think the facade of the building is going to be very attractive. I really like the brick that they are using as well as the stone accents. Although the stone looks to be foe, which I really don't like, it really does add some class to the building which I think Conseco is lacking.

Those hotels really suck! I am so disapointed in our city. The investment the city is making in LOS is going to be a complete waste. The city had no foresight and neglected to come up with a plan for the area around the stadium. Couldnt we have come up with some sort of overlay district or design guidelines for this area? Would that have been so difficult?

I can't believe we are bashing Carmel's leadership when our leadership doesn't seem to have a clue. Carmel is one of the only cities in Indiana that is really starting to understand the value of placemaking. It is encouraging it's developers to make their buildings add up to more than the sum of their parts.

Our city is sinking so much money in the stadium and isn't leveraging it to create anything of any lasting value. The stadium doesn't define the street, it unneccisarrliy fragments the street grid, and now it is promoting ugly suburban-style development.

I'm at a loss. I just don't understand what can be done to get our leaders to care about urban design and placemaking.

I completely agree. Those hotels are not fit to built in an urban area.

Maybe we should get Mayor Brainard to run for Mayor of Indy.

Building a terminal
An update on construction of the airport's midfield terminal, set for completion in late 2008An update on construction of the airport's midfield terminal, set for completion in late 2008

What's going on?
Workers are installing the large window that will allow people to look out from the terminal's civic plaza onto the concrete apron, where planes taxi and park. The terminal roof is also being built, and the first sections of the baggage conveyor system that will carry luggage from ticket counters through security are in place. The project's total cost is $1.07 billion.

What's next?
Workers next week should finish boring a 2,100-foot tunnel that is 8 feet in diameter. Pipes will eventually be installed in the tunnel that will carry chilled and hot water needed to heat and cool the terminal.

Any problems?
Rain has made it difficult for workers to pour concrete in the new garage. Contractors are also having trouble hiring enough structural steel welders to work on the project.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20061105&Kategori=LOCAL&Lopenr=611050414&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=500&MaxH=400&Site=BG&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0
Under construction: Work continued on the windows and roof at Indianapolis International Airport on Thursday.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061105/LOCAL/611050414/-1/archive

We're talking about these two hotels, right? They suck.

Comfort Suites
http://www.dorahotels.com/ComfortSuites_indy/ComfortSuites_rendering.jpg

Staybridge
http://www.dorahotels.com/Staybridge_indy/Staybridge_rendering.jpg

They're bad but not terrible.

Here's an idea: What if someone convinced the developers to have the two hotels stacked on top of each other, and with an additional eight floors of condos above them?

Victoria Centre goes condo

Realty Advisors Inc. is renovating two downtown buildings on East Washington Street into 13 condos.

The locally based group owns and manages two connected buildings: the six-story Victoria Centre at 22 E. Washington St. and the seven-story structure immediately west at 32 E. Washington St.

For the transition into condos, Realty Advisors plans to remake the third through seventh floors of the buildings into 13 units that will range from 1,800square feet to 3,700 square feet with prices in the $300,000 to $800,000 range.

Stan Evans owns the small real estate firm, which—along with partners—owns three shopping centers, manages several buildings, and has worked on a Noblesville subdivision.

Evans said the company tapped Fishers-based Meyer Najem Construction LLC as general contractor for the project. Meyer Najem has served as a contractor for several downtown projects, including the Davlan Building on Massachusetts Avenue, which is a mix of residential and retail space.

Realty Advisors opened a partial model unit at Victoria Centre in time for Indianapolis Monthly magazine’s downtown condo tour Oct. 20-21. Evans plans to lease out the first floor of the buildings to retail tenants and leave offices on the second floor. Financing for the project is subject to preselling some of the units, Evans said.

http://miborpicturesweb2.marketlinx.com/mediadisplay/47/hr2551747-8.jpg

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=SUJKLzIwMDYvMTAvMzAjQXIwMTYwMQ==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

Project offers Rx for area
Walgreens, commercial building to replace ‘nuisance’ hotel at Meridian, 16th streets

Within a week, crews will start to raze a discount hotel at 16th and Meridian streets, making way for a Walgreens and a separate office or retail building.

The project by locally based Sandor Development Corp. is just the latest sign the long-struggling corridor is on the upswing, business and community leaders say.

Just north, office brokers say, the virtually vacant former headquarters of Indiana Energy Inc. could soon be sold, potentially to WFYI TelePlex, and work continues on a $10 million office-andcondo project at 21st and Meridian streets.

The corridor was one of the most vibrant areas of Indianapolis a half century ago, but fell into decline in the 1970s and 1980s, leaving a trail of vacant and dilapidated buildings.

It’s seen a slow and steady redevelopment since the late 1990s, when the city intervened—tearing down and closing down some problem spots. Those changes seem to be making an impact as developments move back in at a slow but steady pace.

Now, businesses are starting to follow suit, drawn by the increasingly attractive location and stillaffordable rent.

“It’s a great place for people who don’t want to spend $20 a square foot, but want a good address,” said local broker Brian Epstein, president of Urban Space Commercial Properties.

Welcome, Walgreens

Neighbors likely won’t miss the Econo Lodge, which had fallen into disrepair about 10 years ago after a local ownership group sold it to out-of-town investors. The new owners didn’t spend much money on it, they said.

“It was kind of a nuisance property,” said Amy Kotzbauer, president of the Near North Community Development Corp.

The hotel at 1530 N. Meridian St. will be replaced by a 15,000-square-foot Walgreens. Construction is expected to start within a month, said Sandor CEO Sidney D. Eskenazi, and the pharmacy should open by mid-summer.

A parking lot will be located directly at the intersection, and the store will be situated on Meridian just south of 16th Street. Eskenazi said his group also is looking for tenants for the western stretch of the property, now a parking lot with frontage on Illinois Street.

“It will either be a retail or [general] office building or house medical offices,” Eskenazi said. “We haven’t figured that one out yet.”

Eskenazi said the firm didn’t have a total project cost yet, but it already has given up some of its potential profit—donating all the hotel’s contents, from linens to televisions, to local charities.

Sandor had to get a zoning variance to include a drive-through pharmacy in the site plans, and the Near North Community Development Corp. negotiated several design changes so the Walgreens would fit into the neighborhood.

Alterations included using brick in the façade, limiting signage, and requiring the drive-through to be behind the building, effectively blocking it from view along Meridian Street, Kotzbauer said.

Goodbye, Indiana Energy

The corridor could get another boost soon if a deal to sell the former Indiana Energy Inc. headquarters at 1630 N. Meridian St. materializes.

When Indiana Energy Inc. and the Southern Indiana Gas & Electric Co. merged in 2000, the new company—Evansville-based Vectren Corp.—took over a 10-year lease on the building that runs through July 2008, company spokesman Mike Roeder said. Just 12 Vectren employees work in the 94,000-square-foot space that also boasts a 320-space parking garage and a 110-space surface lot.

The building owner, Los Angelesbased Mission Office Park LLC, has the property listed for slightly more than $10 million.

Local office brokers said WFYI Tele-Plex has seriously looked at buying the building, but WFYI President Lloyd Wright declined to comment on the possibility.

Wright said the public broadcasting group is looking at options that would bring all its employees under one roof and give the organization more space. WFYI now operates out of 1401 N. Meridian St. and also owns a 20,000-square-foot building next door at 1433 N. Meridian St. Its employees occupy about a quarter of the second building; the remainder is leased out.

“Over the last decade or so, we’ve been exploring our option for future facilities for WFYI,” he said. At one time, the notfor-profit weighed moving to the IUPUI campus but dropped that plan.

Wright said the group is considering building an addition just north of the 1401 building that would double the office space but wipe out surface parking.

The other option, he said, is to move. He declined to go into specifics other than to say it would be nearby. The Indiana Energy building is about two blocks north of WFYI’s current headquarters.

“We’ve made a strong commitment to stay on Meridian Street,” he said.

Part of the equation will be the outcome of an ongoing capital campaign slated to raise $15.3 million for facilities, equipment and WFYI’s endowment.

Marching up the block

There’s also been a recent boost in residential development in the area, including a $10 million development at the northeast corner of 21st and Meridian, appropriately dubbed Meridian at 21.

Locally based Woodland Realty Co. LLC has renovated the three-story limestone mansion built in the late 1800s by businessman Joseph Rink, along with a connected, four-story, brick office building.

Marketing agent Sycamore Realty Group recently began selling the nine condo units on the upper floors; three have sold already, said Sycamore’s Mike Couch. A real estate firm and the Indiana Association for Community Economic Development will occupy the first-story space.

Within three months, the group plans to begin its second phase of the project—building eight town homes behind the mansion at the northwest corner of 21st and Pennsylvania streets. After that, it will construct lofts and town homes just north of the mansion on Meridian.

Apart from Meridian at 21, the group also recently purchased two nearby buildings for an undisclosed price.

The first, a two-story, craftsman-style home at 2123 N. Meridian St., will be renovated into offices for the Near North Community Development Corp.

And Woodland Realty will raze a onestory, white-concrete-block building at 2127 N. Meridian St., making way for a $9 million to $11 million development on that property and two lots north of it that will include commercial and residential space.

“We’re kind of marching right up the block here,” Couch said.

Onward and upward

Plans are still in flux for the southwest corner of 16th and Illinois streets, a block west of the planned Walgreens. An attempt to bring a Rally’s restaurant to an empty lot there recently fell through, said Steve Delaney, a partner and restaurant specialist at The Linder Co., a Carmelbased real estate firm.

Delaney, who represented both Rally’s and the landowners, said the fast-food restaurant signed a 10-year land lease for the parcel in 2004. But city officials recently turned down the restaurant’s request to build a drive-through after complaints from community groups. Rally’s bagged the plan, and Delaney is shopping the site around.

Walgreens competitor CVS is among the potential tenants that have looked at the site, Delaney said. Other restaurants–- both fast food and traditional—also are possibilities, but a deal has yet to come together.

Interest and activity just north of downtown makes sense, Urban Space’s Epstein said, because the corridor has a lot going for it.

Small, professional services firms love the area because it offers free parking, easy access to downtown and Interstate 65, and cheaper rents, he said—an average of $15.83 a square foot.

Although he’s still trying to sell the former WXIN-TV Channel 59 studios at 1440 N. Meridian St., Epstein said the nine other buildings in the corridor he represents are all nearly 100-percent leased.

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/10/23/3/Img/Pc0030500.jpg
The Econo Lodge at 16th and Meridian Streets is closed and will be torn down soon.

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=SUJKLzIwMDYvMTAvMjMjQXIwMDMwMg==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

Retro barbershop will try to undercut pricey salons

Investors are opening a retro barbershop in newly revamped retail space on the first floor of the Victoria Centre at 22 E. Washington St. The partners hope to attract customers who want more than a budget cut without breaking the bank.

Red’s Classic Barber Shop Co. is a venture backed by Washington-based investor Roy Stevenson and locals Michael and Alexandra Ridgway.

Ridgway said he hopes that with a $19 charge for a haircut and an emphasis on service, customers will find it a fitting middle road between super cheap cuts and pricey salons.

“We’re kind of just going backwards in time,” Ridgway said.

Alexandra Ridgway will manage the shop, which will be designed with a classic 1930s feel. The shop will feature a front sitting room with leather couches and dark wood in a men’s club atmosphere where there will be space to display modern and retro men’s grooming supplies. Haircuts will be given in the back two-thirds of the shop, where six refurbished vintage barber chairs will anchor a stark black-and-white décor. The owners also had two mobile shoe shine stations built replicating antique models.

The 1,335-square-foot space should be open by early December.

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/11/06/16/Img/Pc0160600.jpg
A new barbershop in this East Washington Street building will have an old-time feel.

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=SUJKLzIwMDYvMTEvMDYjQXIwMTYwMA==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

A parking lot will be located directly at the intersection, and the store will be situated on Meridian just south of 16th Street.

Sandor had to get a zoning variance to include a drive-through pharmacy in the site plans, and the Near North Community Development Corp. negotiated several design changes so the Walgreens would fit into the neighborhood.

How about the Near North Community Development Corp. removes their head from their @ss and negotiates having the Walgreens at the corner instead of the damn parking lot.

"A parking lot will be located directly at the intersection, and the store will be situated on Meridian just south of 16th Street."


This makes me want to puke. The building should be at the intersection with the parking along Meridian, or better yet, tucked behind the building! Come on, this is the "Regional Center" and should not be developed like 86th & Meridian!

Amy Kotzbauer is the president of the Near North Community Development Corp. and her email address is Amy@nearnorthcdc.org. If you're as upset as Cory and I are about this silly parking lot at 16th and Meridian, I suggest you drop her a line to let her know!

Oh...I know Amy!! She used to (and may still) serve on one of the City's Boards of Zoning Appeals. SHE SHOULD KNOW BETTER!!!!

Ugh.

Massive hotel project could advance without city help



Redevelopment would be on a smaller scale


By Cory Schouten cschouten@ibj.com




Land near Victory Field could get hundreds of additional hotel rooms even if the developers that control the site don’t receive city incentives they’re seeking for a huge convention hotel project.
Merrillville-based White Lodging Services Corp. and Indianapolis-based REI Real Estate Services are asking the city to invest $45 million to $55 million toward a $250 million campus of hotels on land that’s now home to a 235-room Courtyard by Marriott and a TGI Friday’s.
If they don’t win the city’s blessing, the group plans to go forward with a less grandiose plan for the site, White Lodging CEO Bruce W. White said.
White-REI is among three development teams seeking incentives for a convention hotel project. The other two say they’ll drop plans if they fail to secure city dollars.
The White-REI proposal calls for a sprawling complex of more than 1,500 rooms in five hotels, including an 800-room JW Marriott and 180-room Renaissance Hotel topped with 24 luxury condos. The plans also include an indoor water park and a three-level underground parking garage with more than 1,200 spaces.
White said the property, which his company has owned since the late 1980s, is too valuable not to do something big.
“We would do a major hotel, without question,” White told IBJ. “We didn’t buy the site for the Howard Johnson.” He was referring to the old brand of the hotel, which property records show was built in 1966.
White and REI proposed a similar redevelopment of the site in 1998, the last time city officials sought proposals for a new convention hotel. That effort led to construction of the 615-room Indianapolis Marriott Downtown on a city-owned parking lot farther east.
Eliminating the underground parking garage could shave $30 million off development costs for the site near Victory Field, REI President Mike Wells said. A scaled-back plan still could add at least 500 rooms, though in fewer hotels.
But the development team is pushing for the more dramatic project, playing up the proposal’s potential for connecting White River State Park with the convention center and the rest of downtown.
The partners also are emphasizing their experience—they developed the Marriott Downtown, among other projects—and that they control the site.
“Once we make a deal, the deal will be solid,” White said late last month in a pitch to a city-appointed committee charged with picking the best hotel proposal. “We’ll come to the trough once.”
Another convention hotel option, put forward by a partnership of Indianapolisbased Browning Investments Inc. and Milwaukee-based hotelier Marcus Corp., calls for a $249 million, 44-story Inter-Continental Hotel tower on Pan Am Plaza.
The red-granite and glass tower would include 1,016 rooms, 72 condos, two restaurants and a 36,000-square-foot ballroom.
Browning President Michael Browning has an option to purchase the site from the Indiana Sports Corp. that’s good until December 2007. But if the committee selects another proposal, Browning probably would not exercise his purchase option, said Dennis Dye, Browning’s executive vice president.
“We’re in a different model since we’re not already invested in the property,” Dye said.
The developers are seeking public help to pay for a 1,384-spot underground parking garage, along with a public plaza, ballroom and sky bridge to the convention center. They declined to say how much money they want.
The third proposal, from White Plains, N.Y.-based Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc., calls for adding 650 to 800 rooms within two new wings at the existing Westin Indianapolis downtown. Starwood officials also would not say how much city help they want.
If the committee chooses another proposal, a Westin expansion is unlikely, at least anytime soon, said Mark Purcell, Starwood’s vice president for real estate investments.
A Westin expansion in addition to 1,000 new rooms would be “too much, too soon,” he said.
The city wants to add at least 800 hotel rooms by 2010 to coincide with the opening of a $275 million convention center expansion.

Century-old landmark building gets new life as condos
http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/11/06/22/Img/Pc0220300.jpg


Former Ashantii Ballroom renovated into 11 units


By Tracy Donhardt tdonhardt@ibj.com
http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/11/06/22/Img/Pc0220400.jpg


Dan McMichael bought his first house at the age of 17, shortly after graduating from high school.
He lived in the south Broad Ripple house 11 years, rented it out for another 11, then sold it for three times what he paid for it.
Today, McMichael, 43, owns a dozen rental properties around Indianapolis, plus the well-known Rathskeller Restaurant downtown.
And recently he’s turned his real estate eye to 16th and Alabama streets where he’s converting the former Ashantii Ballroom into luxury condominiums.
“I learned years ago with that first house the power of real estate,” Michael said.
He bought the Ashantii from former Olympic boxing coach Hank Johnson in June 2005.
Johnson, who grew up across the street from the building, had turned the once social hall for employees of Indianapolis Power and Light into a catering facility. In fact, McMichael’s original idea when he noticed that the building was for sale was to buy it and use it as a catering extension for the Rathskeller.
But the costs to bring the building up to code were prohibitive, McMichael explained. So he walked away from the potential deal. But the building’s history and location had caught his fancy and he wanted it, he said.
So he decided to do the next best thing—buy it, gut it and completely renovate the structure into Old Northside Lofts condominiums.
He hired locally based Axis Architecture to design the 11 units. Nine are nestled inside the old Ashantii, eight of which have penthouses with floor-to-ceiling windows. Four of those include a basement. Two others sit atop a carriage house being built behind the condos that will provide parking for residents.
Brandt Construction Inc. is doing the heavy lifting. And as Brandt construction crews began working, layers from the various uses the 105-year-old building had been adapted for over the years began showing themselves.
Prior to its stint as a meeting and banquet facility, the Ashantii had served as a community hall, gymnasium and photography school, among other things.
“Working with the existing structure was a bit of a challenge,” said Kerry Osborne, project manager for Axis.
Excavation revealed numerous layers of flooring, old walls and even layers of brick and construction debris that had been covered up.
One of the biggest challenges was removing two 8-foot trusses that were supporting the roof. Those had to come out—which meant shoring up the roof in the meantime—and be replaced with stronger beams to support the new penthouse floor.
Large holes were cut in the penthouse roof for skylights, which required that the rest of the roof be solidified. The penthouses, each with a different view of the city from a wrap-around deck, come equipped with a wet bar.
Most of the exterior work involved restoring the original structure to conform to requirements of the Indianapolis Historic Preservation Commission. The building is in the Old Northside neighborhood, which has been designated a historic district.
In fact, McMichael’s condo conversion project beat out several other offers that had been presented to the prior owner and Tom Megenhardt of The R.P. Lux Co., who had listed the property for Johnson.
It was important that the project fit the character of adjoining neighborhoods, Megenhardt said.
Some of the large arched windows were reconstructed, but some had to be replaced to make them more energy efficient.
Tuck pointing—removing mortar between bricks that has deteriorated—was done on much of the outside walls and patio barriers.
Inside, the main floors of each condo boasts 14-foot ceilings and massive windows. Shelves are built into the wall as is an entertainment center. Each has two bedrooms, except for the smallest unit, which has one.
Marble backsplashes, stainless steel hoods, cherry wood cabinets and slate flooring adorn the gallery kitchens. Bathrooms are lined with porcelain and mosaic tile, and maple hardwood floors cover much of the rest.
Units range in size from 988 square feet to 2,760 square feet and in price from just under $200,000 to just under $600,000.
“It’s a mix of the old and the contemporary,” said Doug Dilling with Century 21 at the Crossing, who is marketing the condos.
One unit has been pre-sold. All are expected to be ready later this year.
“I haven’t had this much fun doing something in years,” McMichael said.

Thats really interesting,
hey,question,
is the new victoria building condos thing going to be going into the rundown building next door to it? Becuase they could get alot of condos out of that building,and it would probably look amazing if it was restored,and who wouldn't want to live in a historical structure downtown?
I am just saying that the company,group,whatever,would make alot more money if they turned the rundown building into condos after major restoration,and also,that would increase the desire of downtown if that rundown building was restored,
I am a bit of an old building freak,and I think a way to save the rundown building nextdoor before its demolished,its facade,(if restored)would look really nice!

I really wish ALL of downtown Washington street would be cleaned up. I really hate seeing those rundown buildings with windows covered by boards. It has a lot of potential.

I'll be the political dork in here and remind everyone to VOTE tomorrow. The Indianapolis (7th district) US House race is closer than people thought it would be.

A little Indystar article on OMS a few days ago that somehow escaped my attention. It doesn't say anything new except for a signifigant little tidbit at the end:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061102/LOCAL/611020465/1006/LOCAL

-----

City gives condo developers more time to complete deal

Developers of a plan to build a high-rise condo Downtown on the site of the former Market Square Arena received another extension to complete a new deal.

The planned 208-unit, 31-story tower was supposed to be completed this year. City officials gave Market Square Partners two extensions when it could not meet presales requirements to secure financing and break ground.
On Aug. 31, Mayor Bart Peterson announced that the partnership would get until Oct. 31 to restructure the financing plan by bringing in new partners. It now has until Nov. 22.

The mayor's spokesman, Justin Ohlemiller, said the extension was granted because progress has been made toward a new plan.

-----
Good news that..

I know what you mean,I think the city should invest millions into the restoration of these old buildings before they end up like the old marion county courthouse,let us have a moment of silence for the second empire neoclassic marion county courthouse.T_T

I really wish ALL of downtown Washington street would be cleaned up. I really hate seeing those rundown buildings with windows covered by boards. It has a lot of potential.

I'll be the political dork in here and remind everyone to VOTE tomorrow. The Indianapolis (7th district) US House race is closer than people thought it would be.

I'm a voting dork too.

I'm not worried about Julia Carson. She has a great many supporters who are "unpollable" who show up in droves on election day. She'll win by 7% at least.

hey,does anyone know the date when the market square towers will be built?:)

As I have mentioned on here in the past, out in Cumberland I assisted in the develovopment of their National Road Overlay. Although this is on a much smaller, suburban scale, it is still the same idea...Strict Design and Planning Guidelines for the NATIONAL ROAD. Eveidently, Indianapolis has been working on this the entire downtown for years, all while the city is expierencing loads of infill in the most visible areas!!!

Sorry for the rant..

Simon in talks to replace Fashion Mall's Parisian
Mall developer mum; center's popularity will make it a draw

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BG&Date=20061107&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=611070345&Ref=AR&MaxW=200&Q=60&Border=0
Top place to shop: The Crate & Barrel at the Fashion Mall opened last November, adding to the cachet of the mall's upscale tenant mix. The area's average household income of $83,000 should help mall owner Simon lure a replacement for Parisian. - CHARLIE NYE / The Star 2005 file photo

Simon Property Group is busy shopping for a glitzy replacement for the stylish Parisian store at the upscale Fashion Mall.
And Simon officials aren't wasting any time.
"We are in negotiations with a well- recognized fashion department store but can't comment further until these discussions have been concluded," said spokesman Les Morris in an e-mail.
Parisian owner Belk did not return calls. Last month, the company announced its decision to sell 11 stores, including the two Indiana locations at Circle Centre mall and the Fashion Mall. The Downtown Indianapolis store found a buyer in The Bon-Ton Stores, a Pennsylvania company.
The fate of the Fashion Mall location still hangs in balance.
It could be sold or shuttered, leaving a 127,900-square-foot vacancy.
Finding a replacement for the department store known for its personalized services won't be an arduous task, experts say. Once a sprawling bazaar for independent retailers, the Fashion Mall today boasts a platinum tenant roster that includes Tiffany, Saks Fifth Avenue, Crate & Barrel and Cheesecake Factory. It also sits in an enviable trade area.
There are 148,000 residents within a five-mile radius of the mall, according to The Linder Co., a Carmel-based commercial real estate services firm. The area's average household income hovers at $83,000, compared with $45,574 in the metro region.
"It is the premier and highest-end shopping destination in the city," said Mark Perlstein, a partner at the Carmel company.
Yet it could be challenging to net a retailer that already has an Indianapolis presence, Perlstein said. Department stores such as Nordstrom and Macy's have locations in this market, and it wouldn't make sense for them to open shops close to existing stores.
"It appears that whoever takes that spot would have to be an independent store in the marketplace," he said.
So, would it be an opulent retailer such as a Neiman Marcus or a Barneys? A midrange store such as J.C. Penney?
"Only Simon could tell you what the possibilities are," said Don Williams, a principal and senior vice president at Colliers Turley Martin Tucker.
The Fashion Mall has steadily become more exclusive over the years.
Parisian moved into the mall in 1993, long before the arrival of Saks Fifth Avenue, Tiffany or Crate & Barrel. Since then the center has evolved as high-end retailers such as Pottery Barn, Apple Computer and Tommy Bahama made the mall home.
The new tenant mix should help the company land bigger names unique to the area, said Frank Swiss, president and owner of the Swiss Group Commercial Properties.
His personal wish list: a Bloomingdale's or another H&M, the trendy Sweden-based fashion retailer that debuted at Circle Centre last year..
"But an Ikea would be an out-of-the-park grand slam," Swiss said.
There could be a couple of different scenarios, said Patrice Duker, a spokeswoman for the International Council of Shopping Centers, an industry trade group.
Once a traditional shopping destination, department stores lost some of their glamour over the years, forcing the industry to consolidate to survive.
The departure of Parisian could force Simon to look at the Fashion Mall as a whole.
"For mall developers it's a fabulous opportunity to relook at a center and figure out how to make it better," Duker said.


Call Star reporter Madhusmita Bora at (317) 444-6202.

Fashion Mall

• Location: 8702 Keystone at the Crossing.

• Current anchors: Saks Fifth Avenue, Parisian, Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn.

• Tenants: 95.

• Names include: The Cheesecake Factory, Landmark's Keystone Art Cinema & Indie Lounge, Lillie Rubin, Restoration Hardware, Janie & Jack, L'Occitane, Coldwater Creek, MAC Cosmetics, Pottery Barn Kids, Coach, Brighton Collectibles, BCBG/Maxazria, Sephora, Tommy Bahama, Lucky Jeans and Tiffany.

• Number of people within an hour's drive of the Fashion Mall: 1.8 million.

• 2005 projected sales per square foot: $586.

Source: Simon Property Group brochures and Star library

My contact at Simon told me that when Belk announced their purchase of Parisian, there were many at Simon (along with Saks) that were not happy about a "mid-range" store coming into the mall. I was told that Neimen-Marcus was the front-runner for the space, but that they were exploring options of making a "huge" alteration of that side. At first I thought, "what could they do, there's no room," but then I remembered the surface lot on the east side of Parisian as well as the parking garage to the north. There is plenty of room to tear-down the current store and build something larger. Obviously and IKEA would be great and Keystone At The Crossing would be the best location in the State, but with the recent announcement of the Cincy location, I doubt we see anouther in our area until after that store opens. Anyway, nice to see that Simon is serious about another high-end store. I have no doubts that we will NOT see a JC Penny at the Fashion Mall!

City gives condo developers more time to complete deal

Developers of a plan to build a high-rise condo Downtown on the site of the former Market Square Arena received another extension to complete a new deal.

The planned 208-unit, 31-story tower was supposed to be completed this year. City officials gave Market Square Partners two extensions when it could not meet presales requirements to secure financing and break ground.
On Aug. 31, Mayor Bart Peterson announced that the partnership would get until Oct. 31 to restructure the financing plan by bringing in new partners. It now has until Nov. 22.

The mayor's spokesman, Justin Ohlemiller, said the extension was granted because progress has been made toward a new plan.


Good news that..


I am being told that a "great new plan" is taking shape and that a developer that is doing work in Charlotte will be working on this new project.

cool,sounds interesting.

I was reading something my friend found on the internet,they say there planning on putting a monirail between carmel and downtown.

I was reading something my friend found on the internet,they say there planning on putting a monirail between carmel and downtown.
What's the source?

Maybe there will be a transit connection between Carmel and downtown in 10 years. The NE corridor up to Castleton, Fishers and Noblesville is a far greater concern right now, with the need to relieve congestion on I69 generally and the ridiculous I69/I465 interchange specifically.

cwilson has a great regional transit update post a couple pages back in this thread.

http://www.wane.com/Global/story.asp?S=5657437

Daniels Proposes 75-Mile Tollway

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) Governor Daniels is proposing the construction of a 75-mile tollway that would run from Interstate 69 northeast of Indianapolis and loop east and south of the city before connecting with Interstate 70. He says a public-private partnership would build the proposed tollway and that it would help finance the state's proposed I-69 extension from Indianapolis to Evansville. The proposed Indiana Commerce Connector would link six interstates in five central Indiana counties. The governor also says the 142-mile I-69 extension project would be fully toll-free. A state law passed this spring specifies that the I-69 project would be a tollway from Martinsville to Evansville. The new plan would require legislative approval.

(Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

The following are the details released by the Governor's office:

INDIANAPOLIS (November 9, 2006) - Governor Mitch Daniels today proposed the construction of the Indiana Commerce Connector, an outerbelt tollway that would link six interstates through Morgan, Johnson, Shelby, Hancock and Madison counties. The connector would stimulate economic development for many regions of the state and ease traffic congestion on existing interstates, the I-465 loop and other highways.

The governor also announced today there will be no tolls on Interstate 69 (I-69) from Evansville to Indianapolis. He has directed the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) to notify the Federal Highway Administration that the state is moving forward with the plan to build I-69 as a non-toll interstate.

"We have the chance to create six tremendous new job zones without a penny of borrowing or a tax increase. We've talked to leaders in communities across these counties and they are enthusiastic, so I want to move quickly to measure the transportation marketplace interest in building this road with private funds while paying the state money we can use to help complete I-69 and other critical investments in our future," said Daniels.

Shelbyville Mayor Scott Furgeson said such a road would be a great economic development tool for his community. "The more access a community has, the better we are. Every company looking for a good location looks for ease of access, so another major thoroughfare would be a great asset for us," he said.

The governor would utilize a public-private partnership to design, build, operate and maintain the Indiana Commerce Connector. This is an approach other states, such as Texas, are considering to fund their transportation needs. Daniels will seek legislation during the 2007 legislative session to transfer the tolling authority the Indiana General Assembly granted this year for the Evansville to Indianapolis segment of I-69 to the new Indiana Commerce Connector.

INDOT will immediately commence work to estimate the connector's cost, establish its specific location, analyze traffic patterns, explore toll rates and revenues, and determine the connector's value. Preliminarily, INDOT believes the value of the project would not only be enough to build the connector itself but would generate contributions toward funding other projects. Private funding to design and build the tollway could speed its construction, shaving years off the normal processes.

"Major Moves gave us a way to get started on I-69 by 2008, a decade ahead of the previous plan. And it provided enough cash to build at least to Crane. Now, we've got an even better idea about how to finish the job," said Daniels.

INDOT's budget includes $700 million of Major Moves money to start building I-69 in 2008. Ground will be broken outside of Evansville, near Interstate 64 and State Road 57, along the federally-approved route, and will proceed north toward Indianapolis. The Major Moves money is expected to build the portion of the road from Evansville to the Crane Naval Warfare Center in approximately six years after construction begins. The estimated construction cost of the entire highway is more than $2 billion.

"We listened carefully to the concerns of some Hoosiers about tolling I-69, and about traffic between Martinsville and I-465, and we've come up with a solution," said the governor.

The Indiana Commerce Connector would link economic growth centers such as Martinsville, Franklin, Shelbyville, Greenfield and Pendleton for future development. It would be a short distance from the new Honda plant in Greensburg and would link with I-70 near the Indianapolis International Airport. Of the 10 largest new Indiana Economic Development Corporation investments in recent months, nine are located within 10 miles of an Indiana interstate.

"There are enormous additional benefits. There would be less congestion and traffic on the northeast corridor of Indianapolis, and we could save hundreds of millions of dollars in new construction at various points around Interstate 465 and throughout central Indiana. You'd see a major reduction in through traffic, especially trucks, that now use I-465 and the spaghetti bowl in downtown Indianapolis to make their way across central Indiana," said Daniels.

The precise route of the commerce connector has not been determined. It would be about 75 miles in length and will be owned by the state of Indiana. The company selected to build the road would determine where construction would begin and would open various segments as they are completed. It is expected - provided the next legislature transfers the tolling authority - that the entire project could be open to traffic within 10 years of the first groundbreaking.

A map of the connector study area, FAQ and list of ongoing public-private partnership projects in other parts of the country is available by clicking HERE: http://www.in.gov/gov/pdfs/IndianaCommerceConnectoradditionalinfo.pdf

http://www.wane.com/Global/story.asp?S=5657437

Daniels Proposes 75-Mile Tollway

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) Governor Daniels is proposing the construction of a 75-mile tollway that would run from Interstate 69 northeast of Indianapolis and loop east and south of the city before connecting with Interstate 70. He says a public-private partnership would build the proposed tollway and that it would help finance the state's proposed I-69 extension from Indianapolis to Evansville. The proposed Indiana Commerce Connector would link six interstates in five central Indiana counties. The governor also says the 142-mile I-69 extension project would be fully toll-free. A state law passed this spring specifies that the I-69 project would be a tollway from Martinsville to Evansville. The new plan would require legislative approval.

(Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

The following are the details released by the Governor's office:

INDIANAPOLIS (November 9, 2006) - Governor Mitch Daniels today proposed the construction of the Indiana Commerce Connector, an outerbelt tollway that would link six interstates through Morgan, Johnson, Shelby, Hancock and Madison counties. The connector would stimulate economic development for many regions of the state and ease traffic congestion on existing interstates, the I-465 loop and other highways.

The governor also announced today there will be no tolls on Interstate 69 (I-69) from Evansville to Indianapolis. He has directed the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) to notify the Federal Highway Administration that the state is moving forward with the plan to build I-69 as a non-toll interstate.

"We have the chance to create six tremendous new job zones without a penny of borrowing or a tax increase. We've talked to leaders in communities across these counties and they are enthusiastic, so I want to move quickly to measure the transportation marketplace interest in building this road with private funds while paying the state money we can use to help complete I-69 and other critical investments in our future," said Daniels.

Shelbyville Mayor Scott Furgeson said such a road would be a great economic development tool for his community. "The more access a community has, the better we are. Every company looking for a good location looks for ease of access, so another major thoroughfare would be a great asset for us," he said.

The governor would utilize a public-private partnership to design, build, operate and maintain the Indiana Commerce Connector. This is an approach other states, such as Texas, are considering to fund their transportation needs. Daniels will seek legislation during the 2007 legislative session to transfer the tolling authority the Indiana General Assembly granted this year for the Evansville to Indianapolis segment of I-69 to the new Indiana Commerce Connector.

INDOT will immediately commence work to estimate the connector's cost, establish its specific location, analyze traffic patterns, explore toll rates and revenues, and determine the connector's value. Preliminarily, INDOT believes the value of the project would not only be enough to build the connector itself but would generate contributions toward funding other projects. Private funding to design and build the tollway could speed its construction, shaving years off the normal processes.

"Major Moves gave us a way to get started on I-69 by 2008, a decade ahead of the previous plan. And it provided enough cash to build at least to Crane. Now, we've got an even better idea about how to finish the job," said Daniels.

INDOT's budget includes $700 million of Major Moves money to start building I-69 in 2008. Ground will be broken outside of Evansville, near Interstate 64 and State Road 57, along the federally-approved route, and will proceed north toward Indianapolis. The Major Moves money is expected to build the portion of the road from Evansville to the Crane Naval Warfare Center in approximately six years after construction begins. The estimated construction cost of the entire highway is more than $2 billion.

"We listened carefully to the concerns of some Hoosiers about tolling I-69, and about traffic between Martinsville and I-465, and we've come up with a solution," said the governor.

The Indiana Commerce Connector would link economic growth centers such as Martinsville, Franklin, Shelbyville, Greenfield and Pendleton for future development. It would be a short distance from the new Honda plant in Greensburg and would link with I-70 near the Indianapolis International Airport. Of the 10 largest new Indiana Economic Development Corporation investments in recent months, nine are located within 10 miles of an Indiana interstate.

"There are enormous additional benefits. There would be less congestion and traffic on the northeast corridor of Indianapolis, and we could save hundreds of millions of dollars in new construction at various points around Interstate 465 and throughout central Indiana. You'd see a major reduction in through traffic, especially trucks, that now use I-465 and the spaghetti bowl in downtown Indianapolis to make their way across central Indiana," said Daniels.

The precise route of the commerce connector has not been determined. It would be about 75 miles in length and will be owned by the state of Indiana. The company selected to build the road would determine where construction would begin and would open various segments as they are completed. It is expected - provided the next legislature transfers the tolling authority - that the entire project could be open to traffic within 10 years of the first groundbreaking.

A map of the connector study area, FAQ and list of ongoing public-private partnership projects in other parts of the country is available by clicking HERE: http://www.in.gov/gov/pdfs/IndianaCommerceConnectoradditionalinfo.pdf

This is just my opionon,but how many towns,homes,and farms are going to be demolished for this "highway"?
I mean is it seriously worth the destruction of peoples homes,towns,etc.
but this is just my opionon.

yes, it's totally worth it. To me, this is a great idea and one that should benefit many communities across the region. Granted, I know the negatives, but for economic development it is worth it. Not to mention the traffic problems it would solve for Indy.

I suspect that since this is Daniel's idea and with the State's ability to pull-off huge projects lately, this moves quickly and I bet by 2008 this thing is under construction. Since this would be built by a private company, there is some serious money to be made here.

yes, it's totally worth it. To me, this is a great idea and one that should benefit many communities across the region. Granted, I know the negatives, but for economic development it is worth it. Not to mention the traffic problems it would solve for Indy.

I suspect that since this is Daniel's idea and with the State's ability to pull-off huge projects lately, this moves quickly and I bet by 2008 this thing is under construction. Since this would be built by a private company, there is some serious money to be made here.

If I was you, I would be VERY worried about this and against it. By linking the rural parts of Indy's metro counties in a "farmland" beltway, Indy is just asking for horrible sprawl. As it is drawn out, it reminds me of 355 in Chicago or something. In other words, its just too far from the city for a town the size of Indy but also close enough to growing sprawl that it could really speed up ugly sprawl. A road like this has the potential to devastate inner Indy hoods by drawing people out to cheap tract housing in Shelby County, et. It is already happening, but this kind of easy transit potential would exacerbate the problem.

Boy, I would really rather see Indy partner with a private company to start building commuter rail lines. I could see Indy supporting 4-5 commuter rail lines into the city, one from each corner of the metro. Hell Nashville just built a little line and it seems to be doing OK. Why build a massive sprawling road that is just asking to eat up farmland and promote disgusting sprawl at over 30 miles from downtown? Am I seeing this project wrong? I know the project has good intentions but 30 years from now it could really promote a massive sprawl effect.

Check out the map and imagine what could happen. I hate to see cities make these mistakes and I am just so fed up and disgusted with the Feds for not funding mass transit in mid sized cities.

If I was you, I would be VERY worried about this and against it. By linking the rural parts of Indy's metro counties in a "farmland" beltway, Indy is just asking for horrible sprawl. As it is drawn out, it reminds me of 355 in Chicago or something. In other words, its just too far from the city for a town the size of Indy but also close enough to growing sprawl that it could really speed up ugly sprawl. A road like this has the potential to devastate inner Indy hoods by drawing people out to cheap tract housing in Shelby County, et. It is already happening, but this kind of easy transit potential would exacerbate the problem.

Boy, I would really rather see Indy partner with a private company to start building commuter rail lines. I could see Indy supporting 4-5 commuter rail lines into the city, one from each corner of the metro. Hell Nashville just built a little line and it seems to be doing OK. Why build a massive sprawling road that is just asking to eat up farmland and promote disgusting sprawl at over 30 miles from downtown? Am I seeing this project wrong? I know the project has good intentions but 30 years from now it could really promote a massive sprawl effect.

Check out the map and imagine what could happen. I hate to see cities make these mistakes and I am just so fed up and disgusted with the Feds for not funding mass transit in mid sized cities.
While I TOTALLY agree with you that a better plan would be to forge public-private partnerships for rail lines, I disagree that this expressway plan will contribute to sprawl. It's simply too far out to have this affect. In a city like Chicago, yeah, this could be a problem. But in Indy, the distance is simply too large to be a problem. This loop looks to be in the 20-30 mile range around downtown.

ASIDE: how much land does an expressway really take up per mile? Maybe I'm ignorant, but my guess is that it's relatively insignificant compared to the number of acres owned by a farmer.

Again, I will freely admit my ignorance on the subject, so feel free to shoot me down.

Yah,this toll way,really would only make things spread out,instead of build up,if theres a major highway,people will spread out,and we want to build up downtown,fill the parking lots in,not spread it out so the downtown becomes like it was 40 years ago.

Its about that time for Not My Man Mitch to find ways to get more cash.

I doubt that the beltway would contribute to the sprawl, its a little far out from the city.

I'm on the fence about it - and I have many questions still.

First, this is supposed to be owned by the State, but managed privately. How will that work with the eminent domain laws, especially since the recently Supreme Court ruling seems to have hardened sentiments against takings for private economic development?

Second, This should be coupled with mass transit initiatives in Indy. Chicago has been able to maintain its downtown core partly because of the layout of the Metra and El. Indy should invest in the same.

Third, I agree that this will probably not contribute to sprawl in the short term, but planners will have to make a decision soon about how Indy is going to continue to grow. We could have a car-centered city in 50 years, where people commute from suburb to suburb (like now) or a more urban, compact city where more jobs are concentrated downtown and in center township. The second option seems like better planning to me, but it really depends on the cost of private transportation in the next 30 years. If we gamble and say that the cost-effectiveness of solo commuting will remain stable in 30-50 years, then Daniels' plan will put Indy in a good position to reap the growth that would come with that. However, if gas prices continue to rise faster than inflation (which they will) and no alternative is found (the global question), then this plan is folly, and we should be building trains.

I don't think this will hurt central Indy in the short term, because I think more and more people are opting for urban living, without driving long distances. But, some people like to live in graded cornfields filled with xeroxed cardboard castles.

Its about that time for Not My Man Mitch to find ways to get more cash.

I doubt that the beltway would contribute to the sprawl, its a little far out from the city.

He does seem to love to spend that money, doesn't he? I read somewhere that Major Moves was his attempt to finance pet projects that the state government budget couldn't support.

Shrink the size of state government? Never!

Like cjfjapan, I am on the fence on this as well. I'm curious as to why they didn't decide to make it a complete loop.

Here is a map of where the proposed road would go:

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20061109&Kategori=LOCAL&Lopenr=61109043&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=500&MaxH=400&Site=BG&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0

I like it... It is way too far outside of 465 and center township to have an effect like you guys are talking about. I too am interested in why they decided not to make an entire loop and just a half loop. The people who want to live in an urban setting or a down town area are going to move there, the people who want to live in the suburbs are going to live there this road is not going to change their minds. I agree we need to invest in rail, but this is going to have a big economic impact and will help get from one suburb to the other as indy continues to grow outwards and upwards. We will get rail eventually, we are just slow in getting there lol :)

http://static.flickr.com/121/293883266_c707760c6a_o.jpg
I found this using Windows Live Local. They are working on virtual models of I believe, the largest 50 cities or so, not 100% sure.

Does anyone know the name of the program used to create these renderings?

http://static.flickr.com/121/293883266_c707760c6a_o.jpg
I found this using Windows Live Local. They are working on virtual models of I believe, the largest 50 cities or so, not 100% sure.

Does anyone know the name of the program used to create these renderings?

Hmm... I hope they aren't planning to model Market Square Arena...

I like it... It is way too far outside of 465 and center township to have an effect like you guys are talking about. I too am interested in why they decided not to make an entire loop and just a half loop.
Word on the street is that this beltway is actually considered a section of the larger I69 Canada <--> Mexico expressway. This loop is sort of an alternate to having I69 cut across Indianapolis as originally intended.

I69 is apparently a 4-piece project in Indiana. Piece 1 is what currently exists. Piece 2 is an Indianapolis connector from Piece 1 to Piece 3. Piece 3 is the section that is to be partially funded with Major Moves money, from I465 in Indy to I64 near Evansville. Phase 4 is from I64 to the Kentucky border (then the extension of the expressway is Kentucky's deal).

Additionally, it appears that this beltway toll road is being proposed as a way to fund Piece 3. The reason is that a study showed that there would be insufficient toll revenue from Piece 3 of I69 to fund it.

Hmm... I hope they aren't planning to model Market Square Arena...

umm,isnt the chase tower in a diffrent lot?

umm,isnt the chase tower in a diffrent lot?
hahahaha!

Good catch! I didn't notice that the first time. You can even see it in 2D across the street from the 3D one that they put in.

I was wondering why it was like a block away from its actoull location,
I noticed it the first time I was like "oh cool,why is it a block away?"
OMG,ARE THEY MOVING THE CHASE TOWER?
I dident know they could do that!=O

Certainly highways contribute to sprawl, but this is a toll-way. There will not be very many exits and as mentioned, it being so far out helps. Think of some of the Indiana toll road. When you drive on that as opposed to 80/94, there is hardly any development along it. It moves traffic much better than the Toll-Road.

I just can't help but think that this 1.5 BILLION couldn't be spent on building the City's LRT all at once instead of in phases like proposed.

http://static.flickr.com/121/293883266_c707760c6a_o.jpg
I found this using Windows Live Local. They are working on virtual models of I believe, the largest 50 cities or so, not 100% sure.

Does anyone know the name of the program used to create these renderings?

I'm not sure, It could be Sketch-Up or something similar.

www.sketchup.com (http://www.sketchup.com)

Speaking of 3-D Models, It is really sad that we don't have 3D drawings of Indy on Google Earth. I guess It would just take some people like us to start modeling.

It would be great to find someone from the city that would allow us to convert their CAD model of the city into a sketch-up model. I know it exists, we probably just need to ask the right person. This would allow us to do some execlent massing models of future developments and allow us to make recomendations to developers and planners.

Do any of you know of anyone that has access to this model? Is this something that they keep under wraps?

It seems like It would only be a positive thing for developers and concerned citizens to understand how future developments will fit the context of the adjacent area. I get so frustrated when architects design a building without understanding the area around their site.

I'm not sure, It could be Sketch-Up or something similar.

www.sketchup.com (http://www.sketchup.com)

Speaking of 3-D Models, It is really sad that we don't have 3D drawings of Indy on Google Earth. I guess It would just take some people like us to start modeling.

It would be great to find someone from the city that would allow us to convert their CAD model of the city into a sketch-up model. I know it exists, we probably just need to ask the right person. This would allow us to do some execlent massing models of future developments and allow us to make recomendations to developers and planners.

Do any of you know of anyone that has access to this model? Is this something that they keep under wraps?

It seems like It would only be a positive thing for developers and concerned citizens to understand how future developments will fit the context of the adjacent area. I get so frustrated when architects design a building without understanding the area around their site.

I'm not sure if it is Sketchup, because this program (so I'm told) takes the actual pictures of the buildings themselves and are cropped and applied to make a 3D model.

I'm surprised Google still doesnt have a model of downtown after about a year and a half from release. That's why I've been working on my own private model :)

did anyone watch close to home last night?
I love that show!=D

Target to rise at Glendale?
Kite’s $20M project would turn mall into open-air center

Kite Realty Group is in final negotiations to bring Target to Glendale Mall as part of a wholesale redevelopment that could transform one of the city’s first enclosed malls into an open-air shopping center.

Demolition of the enclosed portion of Glendale and construction of a new Target store could begin early next year. The redevelopment is estimated to cost $20 million.

Several retail real estate brokers who have seen early versions of the plans say the 129,000-square-foot Target would be built south of the existing Macy’s department store. What is now the heart of Glendale Mall would become a parking lot between Macy’s and Target, which would face north.

Space for small shops or restaurants would be added around Macy’s. Other anchor tenants would remain in place, including a 12-screen Kerasotes Theatres, Lowe’s Home Improvement store and the Glendale branch of the Indianapolis-Marion County Public Library.

Potential challenges in the deal include buying out existing tenants, negotiating economic incentives from the city, and finalizing a footprint for Target.

Glendale Mall, built in 1958, was one of the city’s first malls and also one of the first to be enclosed. But in the last several years, the mall has struggled to generate traffic, fill empty retail space, and keep up with newer competitors such as The Fashion Mall at Keystone at the Crossing and Castleton Square Mall.

Retail experts say the redevelopment would reinvigorate the area’s retail market and help Kite capitalize on a more profitable use of the land as a “power center.” Such open-air projects are less expensive to construct and operate since they lack interior common areas.

“It’ll be nothing like what it is currently,” said Bill French, a senior vice president and retail expert at Colliers Turley Martin Tucker who grew up a few blocks from the mall. “There might be some facets that will be recognizable. Otherwise, it’ll be a completely different look.”

Officials with Indianapolis-based Kite have shared few details of their plans for the 724,000-square-foot mall, despite regular questions from Wall Street analysts since the company went public in 2004.

The questions keep coming up because Glendale is an important part of Kite’s portfolio. The company said in a regulatory filing this month that Glendale is expected to produce $2.3 million in retail revenue this year, about 4.1 percent of its total.

In a conference call with analysts Nov. 6, Kite Chief Operating Officer Tom McGowan said the company is working out Glendale redevelopment issues including tenant buyouts and potential city incentives.

McGowan said Kite has “moved very far down the line” with a new anchor tenant, but probably won’t name it until construction is ready to begin. Kite hopes to start building in the first half of 2007.

“All the wheels are in motion,” McGowan said. “We feel pretty good about the prospects of getting it moving next year.”

In a February conference call, the company put the cost of redevelopment at $18 million to $20 million.

McGowan declined an IBJ request to elaborate on his statements to analysts. Justin Ohlemiller, spokesman for Mayor Bart Peterson, declined to comment beyond saying the city is aware of the redevelopment effort and has an interest in making it a success.

Retail developers have speculated since Kite bought Glendale in 1999 from Chicago-based Equity Properties & Development LP that it would convert the property into a power center with several big-box anchors.

After paying $20 million for Glendale, Kite sunk another $11 million into its redevelopment, adding anchor tenants. But it also opted to keep the mall enclosed, taking a shot at a hybrid format.

The theater and Lowe’s built as part of that redevelopment have done well, but the traditional-mall portion has struggled. Old Navy, Stein Mart and Casual Corner departed in the last year or so, and retail revenue has fallen 20 percent since 2004.

Occupancy at Glendale was 78 percent in September, in the doldrums among Kite’s roughly 50 properties.

Yet retail experts say the potential is great for the 50-acre site, which sits southeast of the busy intersection of 62nd Street and Keystone Avenue.

More than 32,700 households live within three miles of the mall and earn an average income of more than $77,000, according to research by the local office of St. Louisbased Colliers Turley Martin Tucker. The research shows that, this year, households in the area will spend an estimated $28 million on apparel, $111 million on entertainment, and $311 million on food and beverages.

Target previously has expressed interest in the area. In 2002, the retailer looked at a plaza across Keystone Avenue to replace an outdated store at 53rd Street and Keystone Avenue that has since closed.

At the time, Target decided to rebuild its location in Nora instead. Kite is redeveloping the plaza across from Glendale with an LA Fitness and Goodwill store.

Several retailers at Glendale said they were aware of plans to bring in Target, but haven’t been told of buyout offers or received notice to move.

The B. Dalton bookstore is closing at the end of December. A senior bookseller said the store’s expiring lease was not renewed so Kite could make way for Target.

Pizza di Roma franchise owner John Patterson has noticed “something in the air” at Glendale. Workers have been testing concrete, marking utilities. Blueprints have been circulating.

“It’s a wait-and-see game at this point,” Patterson said. “We’re going to make pizza and sell it until we’re notified otherwise.”

Target’s local real estate broker, Eclipse Real Estate principal Bryan Chandler, declined to comment. Linda Mielke, the library system’s CEO, said she would have no comment on how redevelopment might affect the Glendale branch until Kite makes an announcement.

http://www.ibj.com/html/detail_page.asp?content=243

a target in downtown?
seriously,thats just odd,
as long as theres not this big warehouse that tears down seventeen historical structures for its parking lot.

I'm not sure if it is Sketchup, because this program (so I'm told) takes the actual pictures of the buildings themselves and are cropped and applied to make a 3D model.

I'm surprised Google still doesnt have a model of downtown after about a year and a half from release. That's why I've been working on my own private model :)

Naptown, Google doesn't build the 3D maps. I think they rely on the sketch-up community to build the maps and upload them to their system. I have sketch-up and would love to contribute to the map, I just haven't had the time recently and am not exactly sure how to start the process. That is one of the reasons that I thought I would be great to get that CAD model of downtown that the planning department has.

I know they have one because I was working on a Sketch-Up map of downtown a while back and showed someone in the department. He looked mildly impressed and then showed me a very detailed image of downtown exported from a CAD model that the city already had aready produced.

I was attempting to get a job in the department at the time and was trying to impress someone. Needless to say, I felt a bit dejected but have always felt that it would be great to get a copy of that model.

i HATE the highway idea. These toll roads never pay themselves off and are never used as much as expected. FOX59 did a report about it a few nights ago. Why the hell are we taking money from public schools and working on building highways. Ditch Mitch

I was walking south on Illinois St on my lunch hour a couple days ago and was looking at the site where the Inter-Continental Hotel is proposed to be located. As I was walking it became very clear to me that the tower, as proposed would have a minimal impact on the streetscape. The proposal has the tower almost at the center of the block. The result will be that the tower will hardly be visible along any street. I love looking down urban streets that are enclosed with towering buildings. This only seems to happen when the buildings are close to the street. The placement of the Inter-continental is important because it will be an anchor on the south side of downtown.

My thought is that the pedestal of the building should front the right-of-way and be at least 5 to 8 stories tall. The tower should be pulled up to the corner of Georgia and Illinois Streets and be set back only 10 to 15 feet from the edge of the pedestal.

a target in downtown?
seriously,thats just odd,
as long as theres not this big warehouse that tears down seventeen historical structures for its parking lot.

While I would love a Target in downtown, this is being built 6 miles north of downtown.

Close to Home is a great show with some very flattering images of downtown. I would like to comment on the proposed toll road, but I'm not sure yet what I think about it. It would help congestion on 69 and 465 and the majority of those using it would be people just passing through or freight trucks. The money the state receives from this project, would help fund the 69 expansion. On the other hand, there are far more pressing concerns in Indy and yet another one of our roadways would be controlled by an outside corporation. I'm still on the fence, but I'm starting to think that the positives out weigh the negatives.:dunno:

Victoria Centre goes condo

Realty Advisors Inc. is renovating two downtown buildings on East Washington Street into 13 condos.

The locally based group owns and manages two connected buildings: the six-story Victoria Centre at 22 E. Washington St. and the seven-story structure immediately west at 32 E. Washington St.

For the transition into condos, Realty Advisors plans to remake the third through seventh floors of the buildings into 13 units that will range from 1,800square feet to 3,700 square feet with prices in the $300,000 to $800,000 range.

Stan Evans owns the small real estate firm, which—along with partners—owns three shopping centers, manages several buildings, and has worked on a Noblesville subdivision.

Evans said the company tapped Fishers-based Meyer Najem Construction LLC as general contractor for the project. Meyer Najem has served as a contractor for several downtown projects, including the Davlan Building on Massachusetts Avenue, which is a mix of residential and retail space.

Realty Advisors opened a partial model unit at Victoria Centre in time for Indianapolis Monthly magazine’s downtown condo tour Oct. 20-21. Evans plans to lease out the first floor of the buildings to retail tenants and leave offices on the second floor. Financing for the project is subject to preselling some of the units, Evans said.

http://miborpicturesweb2.marketlinx.com/mediadisplay/47/hr2551747-8.jpg

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=SUJKLzIwMDYvMTAvMzAjQXIwMTYwMQ==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom


That be a cool renovation, that picture kind of reminds me of India a bit when i was there. Huge new skyscrapers in backround with older short buildings on ground level in front.

AWESOME news for Glendale! This will go over very well. I just hope that Kite is also working behind the scenes of OMS and they are successful at a new Target there too!!

Close to Home is a great show with some very flattering images of downtown.

I know,yesterday they showed images of Historical districts,monument circle,wholesale,the canal,and statehouse!
And the cases are awesome!

http://www.wane.com/Global/story.asp?S=5657437

Daniels Proposes 75-Mile Tollway


Doesn't Indianapolis sprawl badly enough the way it is?

Doesn't Indianapolis sprawl badly enough the way it is?

no,it is doing fine,but this toll way wont help.

I'm on the fence about it - and I have many questions still.

First, this is supposed to be owned by the State, but managed privately. How will that work with the eminent domain laws, especially since the recently Supreme Court ruling seems to have hardened sentiments against takings for private economic development?

Second, This should be coupled with mass transit initiatives in Indy. Chicago has been able to maintain its downtown core partly because of the layout of the Metra and El. Indy should invest in the same.

Third, I agree that this will probably not contribute to sprawl in the short term, but planners will have to make a decision soon about how Indy is going to continue to grow. We could have a car-centered city in 50 years, where people commute from suburb to suburb (like now) or a more urban, compact city where more jobs are concentrated downtown and in center township. The second option seems like better planning to me, but it really depends on the cost of private transportation in the next 30 years. If we gamble and say that the cost-effectiveness of solo commuting will remain stable in 30-50 years, then Daniels' plan will put Indy in a good position to reap the growth that would come with that. However, if gas prices continue to rise faster than inflation (which they will) and no alternative is found (the global question), then this plan is folly, and we should be building trains.

I don't think this will hurt central Indy in the short term, because I think more and more people are opting for urban living, without driving long distances. But, some people like to live in graded cornfields filled with xeroxed cardboard castles.

I like your logic here. To me, if Indy continues to grow, growth will eventually reach this tollway and it can contribute to inner city decline. This will have no effect on downtown in the short term (or probably long term either), as downtowns are "hot items" in every major city now. But as we focus on downtowns so much, what about these neighborhoods 3-6 miles from downtown? In Indy, think about what Washington Square and Glendale Malls used to look like compared to now, etc. I would much rather see a public-private partnership for mass transit. I also think Midwest cities are growing close enough now that a government subsidized backing with a private rail company could spur high speed rail between Midwest cities like they plan to do in the Midwest Rail Initiative.

no,it is doing fine,but this toll way wont help.

Indianapolis, like Columbus, Nashville, Kansas City, etc., is not doing fine.

We have way too much sprawl. The whole west side from Brownsburg to Plainfield down to Mooresville has seen a lot of growth. I have seen subdivisions sprouting up south of Franklin in Trafalgar and Bargersville. Subdivisions are sprouting up in farm land between Indy and Greenfield. It's continous growth north past 196th St. in Westfield. Carmel, Fishers, Noblesville and Westfield are all merging together. Growth is moving towards Morse reservoir. New subdivisions are being built in McCordsville and Fortville, moving towards Pendelton.

This proposed toll road will only precipitate sprawl in the Eastern and Southeastern portions of the metro area.

Indianapolis, like Columbus, Nashville, Kansas City, etc., is not doing fine.

We have way too much sprawl. The whole west side from Brownsburg to Plainfield down to Mooresville has seen a lot of growth. I have seen subdivisions sprouting up south of Franklin in Trafalgar and Bargersville. Subdivisions are sprouting up in farm land between Indy and Greenfield. It's continous growth north past 196th St. in Westfield. Carmel, Fishers, Noblesville and Westfield are all merging together. Growth is moving towards Morse reservoir. New subdivisions are being built in McCordsville and Fortville, moving towards Pendelton.

This proposed toll road will only precipitate sprawl in the Eastern and Southeastern portions of the metro area.
really?I dident know about that,
I think we should try to build up the city,I mean yah,people want to live downtown now,the central township population is rising,but the townships around it in marion county are dropping,becuase the people in the outer rim are fleeing to the suburbs.

This Toll Road is a waste of money. Focus the money and efforts into mass transit (light rail). I am sure a lot of developers are about to wet their pants think about this project. It would open up a lot of green fields for sprawling subdivisions and strip centers (cheap easy land to build on). If you don't think this project will create future sprawl, just look at Dallas, Houston, San Antonio or Nashville and see what these extra bypasses have done for sprawl in these communities. Indy has come a long ways in its efforts to be a urban environment. I really believe that oil will continue to rise in cost overtime and the cities that can reduce their development patterns to be less dependent on oil will be the communities that have the best economic conditions in the future. This concept of building another bypass is a concept from the past not the future.

This Toll Road is a waste of money. Focus the money and efforts into mass transit (light rail). I am sure a lot of developers are about to wet their pants think about this project. It would open up a lot of green fields for sprawling subdivisions and strip centers (cheap easy land to build on). If you don't think this project will create future sprawl, just look at Dallas, Houston, San Antonio or Nashville and see what these extra bypasses have done for sprawl in these communities. Indy has come a long ways in its efforts to be a urban environment. I really believe that oil will continue to rise in cost overtime and the cities that can reduce their development patterns to be less dependent on oil will be the communities that have the best economic conditions in the future. This concept of building another bypass is a concept from the past not the future.

Yah,people that live downtown spend very little money on oil,
why?
Becuase everything they need is in walking distance! The mall,shops,cafes,museums,parks,schools,plazas,cultural districts,etc,they dont have to drive unless there disabled!
Thats why our downtown has so much potential! Everything is in walking distance,this tollway really wont help the growth of the ORIGINAL Indianapolis,
though downtown is growing very fast,this toll way wont do anything but slow it down. And several homes,towns,and farms are going to be wiped out for this,I think that the lightrail should be put in,becuase it would bring people downtown,and maybe a trolley between monument circle and the zoo perhaps,and also goes through Lockerbie.
The toll way is probably the entire opposite of what the downtown area needs,if we need any form of more transportation,we need more transiportation to the downtown area.

Article:
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061113/LOCAL/61113002

Video:
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061113/VIDEO01/61113001

^^Actually, that brings up memories of the MSA demolition on July 8, 2001. I remember it like it was yesterday...

I went to a demolition party at Riley Towers. It was a "blast." ha ha ha

Is anyone planning to attend?
**********************************************

Hotel Selection Advisory Committee to host public meeting tomorrow

The Indianapolis Local Public Improvement Bond Bank's Hotel Selection Advisory Committee will host a public meeting to receive input, opinion and comment from stakeholders and the general public on the proposed downtown convention hotel developments.

WHEN: Tuesday, November 14
3 p.m.

WHERE: Indiana Convention Center
Room 138

The Hotel Selection Advisory Committee is currently reviewing three proposals for a new downtown convention hotel. Browning Marcus Joint Venture is proposing to build an Intercontinental Hotel located at Pan Am Plaza. Starwood/Host Hotels is proposing to expand the existing Westin. Whiteco Industries is proposing to build several Marriott-brand hotels, including a JW Marriott, on the southwest corner of West and Washington Streets.

In September, Mayor Bart Peterson appointed the seven-member advisory committee to gather more information about the three remaining proposals.

The advisory committee is scheduled to deliver a recommendation to the Bond Bank and the City of Indianapolis later this month.

If I had known about this meeting sooner, I would have tried to attend. I wonder if there will be a large turnout.

On WTHR they announced the plans for the Convention Center expansion itself. I don't recall seeing any actual images of the exterior, but they did mention that the convention center will not have a ballroom. They then mentioned that they expect this to be part of the selected hotel. That statement should bode well for the InterContinetal, as I don't recall either of the other proposals including a ballroom.

If I had known about this meeting sooner, I would have tried to attend. I wonder if there will be a large turnout.

On WTHR they announced the plans for the Convention Center expansion itself. I don't recall seeing any actual images of the exterior, but they did mention that the convention center will not have a ballroom. They then mentioned that they expect this to be part of the selected hotel. That statement should bode well for the InterContinetal, as I don't recall either of the other proposals including a ballroom.


Couldent the old Union station be fixed up and used as the new ball room to save money?

This Toll Road is a waste of money. Focus the money and efforts into mass transit (light rail). I am sure a lot of developers are about to wet their pants think about this project. It would open up a lot of green fields for sprawling subdivisions and strip centers (cheap easy land to build on). If you don't think this project will create future sprawl, just look at Dallas, Houston, San Antonio or Nashville and see what these extra bypasses have done for sprawl in these communities. Indy has come a long ways in its efforts to be a urban environment. I really believe that oil will continue to rise in cost overtime and the cities that can reduce their development patterns to be less dependent on oil will be the communities that have the best economic conditions in the future. This concept of building another bypass is a concept from the past not the future.

Ah, Nashville is the one I was thinking of. This tollway is set up exactly the same distance from downtown and the same orientation as the 840 highway that connects Lebanon, TN NE of town with Spring Hill due south of town.

If you have ever driven that road, you will notice an odd mix of nothingness and country and then reach interchanges with tacky Super Walmarts and the whole strip mall nine yards. 840 helped create and grow the ugly beast known as Mufreesboro. Anyone that thinks these towns are desirable has another thing coming to them. Areas like this is why it is hard for me to hide my disdain for the Nashville region. I love downtown Nashville and surroundings, but that sprawl 30 miles out and the traffic it creates just disgusts me.

The situation in Indy is different only in that it is a toll which should mitigate the sprawl problem but never stop it. If people can get brand new 4 bedroom, 2,000 sq foot vinyl sided houses for $120k, they will move out there in a heart beat.

Also, whoever said the Indiana Toll Road doesn't have sprawl is wrong. Chicago suburbs sprawl down the Toll Way all the way to La Porte, In, which is only 30 miles west of South Bend. In Fact, some Chicago people are now choosing to live in South Bend because it is so cheap but small enough and contained enough to have all the basic shopping and chain restaurants.

Is anyone planning to attend?
**********************************************

Hotel Selection Advisory Committee to host public meeting tomorrow

The Indianapolis Local Public Improvement Bond Bank's Hotel Selection Advisory Committee will host a public meeting to receive input, opinion and comment from stakeholders and the general public on the proposed downtown convention hotel developments.

WHEN: Tuesday, November 14
3 p.m.

WHERE: Indiana Convention Center
Room 138

The Hotel Selection Advisory Committee is currently reviewing three proposals for a new downtown convention hotel. Browning Marcus Joint Venture is proposing to build an Intercontinental Hotel located at Pan Am Plaza. Starwood/Host Hotels is proposing to expand the existing Westin. Whiteco Industries is proposing to build several Marriott-brand hotels, including a JW Marriott, on the southwest corner of West and Washington Streets.

In September, Mayor Bart Peterson appointed the seven-member advisory committee to gather more information about the three remaining proposals.

The advisory committee is scheduled to deliver a recommendation to the Bond Bank and the City of Indianapolis later this month.


I most likely will be there.

This from the IndyStar Forum:

The Indianapolis Metropolitan Planning Organization is federally mandated with the task of transportation planning in the Indianapolis Metro area. This Governor did not even have the common courtesy to consult them on this latest boondoggle project. He also didn't find it necessary to talk with elected officials. Why all the secrecy?

To make matters even more cloudy, INDOT removed from their website a recent, impartial study by HNTB that said an outer beltway is not warranted.

The general findings from this study can be found on the MPO's website: http://www.indympo.org/Public/tempo.htm (http://www.indympo.org/Public/tempo.htm)

Fall 2005 issue - Preliminary SIP Recommendations

Read it and see what professional transportation planners have to say.

When will the new airport open?

Hey,does anyone know when the construction of the new highrise hotel will begin?

They said on channel 13 that the new airport will be open in 2008. I can't remember the exact month. As for the Hotel, they said they want it to be ready for the NCAA Final Four in 2010 I believe.

I would still love to see Union Station turned into a casino and entertainment venue. I know this will never happen in conservative Indiana, but I think it would be a big hit with a lot of the convention goers. I'm not talking a huge casino, just some slots and a few gaming tables with live entertainment,

I would still love to see Union Station turned into a casino and entertainment venue. I know this will never happen in conservative Indiana, but I think it would be a big hit with a lot of the convention goers. I'm not talking a huge casino, just some slots and a few gaming tables with live entertainment,

While I'm not opposed to a downtown casino, I don't like the idea of Union Station being used for that purpose. Union Station has far too much potential to be used as... shockingly... a transportation hub.

I would still love to see Union Station turned into a casino and entertainment venue. I know this will never happen in conservative Indiana, but I think it would be a big hit with a lot of the convention goers. I'm not talking a huge casino, just some slots and a few gaming tables with live entertainment,

I think that would be a bad idea,not that a downtown casino would be bad,that would be great,it would bring in alot of tourists,but Union station is a historical landmark for all ages,casinos are for adults,and since it was a train station,we really wouldent want to restrict its amazing interior to only the adult population,some kids may want to go in,and see the round stain glass rose window,the tiled floors and its amazing plaster work,I think either a light rail station or a museum would be better,
but the city needs to invest in that building,Indianapolis has only one large clocktower,and thats on Union station,but hey guess what,it doesent work,I walk past it alot,its always the same,and its not lit up at night,and the exterior needs cleaned up,I mean seriously,its like one of the most ornate structures in downtown,I hope this new highrise hotel will invest into union station,as I said,it wouldent be very classy if the guests at the hotel woke up,looked to the east,to see an amazing clocktower,and find out it doesent even work.

Also, whoever said the Indiana Toll Road doesn't have sprawl is wrong. Chicago suburbs sprawl down the Toll Way all the way to La Porte, In, which is only 30 miles west of South Bend. In Fact, some Chicago people are now choosing to live in South Bend because it is so cheap but small enough and contained enough to have all the basic shopping and chain restaurants.

Gych-

I am the one who said that when compared to 80/94, there is a big difference. There aren't as many exits and you don't see the same type of highway developmet along the Toll Road as 80/94. And, we ALL know you are gych "scraperboy."



The more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Granted, for Cumberland this would be great...as well as the other communities along the route. Sprawl is the least of my worries about this. BUT, I keep thinking that this money should be spent on Light Rail and the fares collected from it could help build I-69. I mean, a rail system would accomplish the same thing, reduce traffic. In the case of rail, It would be removing local traffic and freeing up highway space for the truck traffic. I can't help but think that if there was an outer loop, those actually traveling through the City may not ever stop if they had the option to go around. They do now, but the City is built up all along I-465 and there are many possibilities for someone to say "Indy looks good, let's explore a bit and see what we find." With I-269, or whatever they call it, that option will be removed.

I have been saying for YEARS that there needs to be some sort of casino downtown! Many big convention cities have this, why not Indianapolis? I mean, Evansville hasn't turned into the summer home of Sodom and Gammora, Indy won't either. I think that a River Boat would be a great addition to downtown, or even a portion of Union Station!

As for today's meeting, I have a meeting at 3pm or I would be there! If you all go to www.Indydt.com, click on the "contact us" link and that will email Tammara Zahn, who is the president of IDI and she serves as a committee member for this group. I say to those that go, hammer home all of the positives about the Hotel InterContinental with regards to "urban context," being attached to both CC and Union Station as well as across the street from the new convention center. Also mention the amount of new residential and how this would add even more life to Illinois Street. Then "pour the gravy" by mentioning that the Tower would really alter our skyline and with high cranes in the air, the City looks like it is progressing forward to people driving through on I-70 (perception is key!).

The Courtyard site is going to be built regardless, just scaled back if not chosen, while this would not be built. The Courtyard site, even though only 2.5 blocks away from the convention center is mentally too far from the "action." "Downtown" isn't there yet. Yes, this would be good for WRSP, but half of the year people will not be over there, while people will ALWAYS go to the mall and everything surrounding it.

http://www.halstead-architects.com/images/misc/kingcole.jpg

This downtown development proposal incorporated eighty three (83) condominiums, a parking facility, and street-front retail shops, into a renovation of a prominent downtown landmark.

Does anyone else know anymore about this?

I was still on the City's planning staff when that was "proposed." Ithink it fel through as the buildings east have been puchased for conversion by a different company. I will do some checking.

Gych-

I am the one who said that when compared to 80/94, there is a big difference. There aren't as many exits and you don't see the same type of highway developmet along the Toll Road as 80/94. And, we ALL know you are gych "scraperboy."



The more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Granted, for Cumberland this would be great...as well as the other communities along the route. Sprawl is the least of my worries about this. BUT, I keep thinking that this money should be spent on Light Rail and the fares collected from it could help build I-69. I mean, a rail system would accomplish the same thing, reduce traffic. In the case of rail, It would be removing local traffic and freeing up highway space for the truck traffic. I can't help but think that if there was an outer loop, those actually traveling through the City may not ever stop if they had the option to go around. They do now, but the City is built up all along I-465 and there are many possibilities for someone to say "Indy looks good, let's explore a bit and see what we find." With I-269, or whatever they call it, that option will be removed.


I have seen you and others say this before, but I have ignored it. yet it keeps coming up, so let me say I am not gych nor am I sure what he/she/it is? Could someone please fill me in? :ohno:

I was still on the City's planning staff when that was "proposed." Ithink it fel through as the buildings east have been puchased for conversion by a different company. I will do some checking.


Thanks,
I really dont like the architecture,but as long is it helps downtown I guess.
More denisty is better.

I have seen you and others say this before, but I have ignored it. yet it keeps coming up, so let me say I am not gych nor am I sure what he/she/it is? Could someone please fill me in? :ohno:

It seems you have the same problem I had when I first got on this site. Everyone thought I was some schmuck from Raytown, MO who was a real dickhead and would post pics of KC at random on threads devoted to other cities. It's all good now though. :)

UMM...has "scraperboy's" name always said 'BANNED' below it?

I totally believe that scraperboy and gych are the same person. The two know the exact same things and have contacts with the same people, post in a nearly identical maner, just without the psychotic ramblings. Both paint Louisville as an architectural and liberal utopia in the middle of the midwest/south and that it is "truely booming" (a tag used by 'both' posters).

UMM...has "scraperboy's" name always said 'BANNED' below it?

I totally believe that scraperboy and gych are the same person. The two know the exact same things and have contacts with the same people, post in a nearly identical maner, just without the psychotic ramblings. Both paint Louisville as an architectural and liberal utopia in the middle of the midwest/south and that it is "truely booming" (a tag used by 'both' posters).

Yes, they are the same person, which is why scraperboy was banned today. I expect him to return, though. If anyone suspects that he has re-registered a new account, let me know in pm. Thanks.

I KNEW IT!!!!!!! I called way back when he first joined.

I went to the meeting today and it was pretty uninformative. They started like 20 minutes late partially because they had so many people that they had to bring in extra chairs. Even with that, it was still standing-room-only, spilling into the hallway.

They talked about the Price Waterhouse Cooper study that said we needed to expand the convention center, build a new stadium to provide space to accomodate that expansion, and build a headquarters hotel to serve the exansion. They talked about how vital the hotel was to the whole plan, basically all stuff we've heard before. Tamara Zahn specifically mentioned that all the designs that we've seen are very preliminary and the Advisory Committee was not considering design at this point.

Interestingly, basically everyone on the committee and everyone in the crowd was assuming that the InterContinental would be chosen, without anyone really saying that definitively.

Several people got up to speak about losing the downtown skating rinks. I feel bad for those people, but the advisory committee has nothing to do with that. They put out a request for proposals and one proposal came back with the intent to purchase Pan Am Plaza and the rinks from Indiana Sports Corp. If there's a problem, take it up with ISC.

Another guy got up and had some pointed commentary about the lack of decent public transportation and the perception that public transportation in Indianapolis is for poor people. Good comments, but again, what does this have to do with the proposals we're examining?

The owner of St. Elmo's got up and spoke about how the convention business has allowed his business to expand multiple times in the last 2 decades, including their brand new restaurant opening next year. He was the only one to make an endorsement of a particular proposal, obviously picking the InterContinental due to its proximity to his restaurant and "restaurant row" in general.

really...that's all? So, everyone seemed to "assume" that the InterContinental would be chosen?

You mention design being preliminary...you are talking about the Convention Center itself, right?

oh...I have been told "expect Neimen Marcus" at the Fashion Mall. We'll see...

really...that's all? So, everyone seemed to "assume" that the InterContinental would be chosen?

You mention design being preliminary...you are talking about the Convention Center itself, right?
I guess I shouldn't say that everyone ASSUMED that the InterContinental would be chosen, it's just that all the commentary was either general or was obviously slanted as though they assumed the InterContinental would be chosen. I don't think the Marriott or Westin proposals really came up other than during the introductions.

As for the design comment, I mean the hotel designs. Tamara pointed to the renderings around the room and said that they were preliminary and that the committee wasn't really considering the specific design at this point. I would assume they'll get down to design details when they finally announce the winning proposal.

I see what you are saying. I read the Indy message boards and the H-I is the overwhelming favorite. I am glad that Tammara mentioned that design isn't final. I think that the H-I could be improved; I like it, but there is room for improvement. Who knows, maybe the Committee is negotiating to get the Courtyard site all under one roof and we we'll see a 60-story tower on that site!!!!

UMM...has "scraperboy's" name always said 'BANNED' below it?

I totally believe that scraperboy and gych are the same person. The two know the exact same things and have contacts with the same people, post in a nearly identical maner, just without the psychotic ramblings. Both paint Louisville as an architectural and liberal utopia in the middle of the midwest/south and that it is "truely booming" (a tag used by 'both' posters).

Aw, well I wouldn't call it a utopia, but I would say we have hit a bit of a boom. It aint all propaganda.
Yeah, I knew it was gych, but he had toned way down and was being less disruptive than plenty of people who I have seen on here and ought to be banned. Plus, he really does have some great info on Louisville, keeps threads going and interesting, and I am kind of sad he's gone.
He may have been a terd, but he was our terd. =]

Aw, well I wouldn't call it a utopia, but I would say we have hit a bit of a boom. It aint all propaganda.
Yeah, I knew it was gych, but he had toned way down and was being less disruptive than plenty of people who I have seen on here and ought to be banned. Plus, he really does have some great info on Louisville, keeps threads going and interesting, and I am kind of sad he's gone.
He may have been a terd, but he was our terd. =]

I noticed that he had toned down his act, but if someone is banned and then re-registers, they must automatically be re-banned, no matter how polite and productive they are when they return.

Broadbent to buy, refurbish Zipper Building

The "Zipper Building," downtown's distinctive black-and-white office building at Washington Street and Virginia Avenue, will change hands, get a new look and house a bank with a drive-thru, according to filings with the Indianapolis Department of Metropolitan Development.

The Broadbent Co. plans to buy the 56,000-square-foot building at 117 E. Washington St. for an undisclosed amount, said Steve Granner, a zoning consultant with Bose McKinney & Evans LLP, the law firm representing Broadbent in the filings.

Calls to Broadbent were not returned.

Broadbent plans to relocate its headquarters there from the Capital Center at 201 N. Illinois St., Granner said.

Broadbent also plans to attract a bank to the ground floor of the 3-story building, Granner said. A specific bank was not identified in the filings.

Broadbent has filed variance petitions with the city's planning department for a bank drive-thru and new signs, including a sign centered at the top of the Washington Street facade that would designate the structure, "The Broadbent Building."

The building's nickname alludes to its facade, which looks like a zipper. Broadbent has filed for regional center approval to replace the zipper façade. The petitions will be voted on next week.

The building is owned by a locally based partnership and managed by Freihofer Commercial Real Estate. A call to Walter Freihofer was not immediately returned.

Past speculation about the building's fate has included upscale condominiums, a high-rise office tower and a hotel.

http://64.255.242.152/portals/6/rew/assets/images/BroadbentZipperRefurb.jpg
Rendering filed with the Department of Metropolitan Development


http://64.255.242.152/portals/6/rew/assets/images/Zipper300px.jpg

http://64.255.242.152/portals/6/rew/html/rew_story1_111406.html



Why does the city approve this junk? Drive thru in downtown? The site has so much more potential.

Why does the city approve this junk? Drive thru in downtown? The site has so much more potential.
I find it sort of appalling that the building was approved in the first place, 70's or no, bleak economic climate or whatever was going on in downtown at the time.

So, I guess this means the Virginia Ave. high rise plans are not really coming through.

I find it sort of appalling that the building was approved in the first place, 70's or no, bleak economic climate or whatever was going on in downtown at the time.

So, I guess this means the Virginia Ave. high rise plans are not really coming through.

I know that plans are still in the works for the Jefferson Plaza, but are currently ensnarled by lawsuits from the buildings' current tenants.

the new facade for the Zipper Building looks horrible! It looks like a cheesy steam boat replica. And a drive-thru? Say it isnt so.

I was so excited to hear that parcel was to become a 17 story mid-rise condo tower. Thats a huge disapointment. I just hate that someone is investing so much money into a 3-story building at that site. It only ensures that it will be there for many more years.

It's an intersting observation that the Indianapolis Star tends to write stories in a away that makes it seem as if opposition towards a high profile, major projects out weighs support. They never seem to relish in progress, rather opting to kill dreams before they happen and sway people's attitudes towards opposition. Now everyone is going to walk around feeling sorry for the poor ice skaters. I say, go to the State Fair and skate to your heart's content! :ohno:
**********************************************************

New hotel? Ice rinks nearer to hearts

By Jeff Swiatek
jeff.swiatek@indystar.com

A hotel is fine, but don't take away our ice skating.


That was the plea Tuesday at a public hearing on the selection process for a Downtown mega-hotel linked to the Indiana Convention Center.
The mayor's Hotel Selection Advisory Committee expects to decide in the next month which of three competing mega-hotel projects should receive city backing.
More than 100 people turned out for the hearing, but only nine spoke up about the proposed hotels.
One of the proposed facilities, a 1,016-room InterContinental Hotel, would be built on the Pan Am Plaza block. The two other proposals are a 650- to 800-room expansion of the Westin Hotel and an 800-room JW Marriott Hotel.
One speaker called for the committee to try to tie the new hotel in with public transportation.
Craig Huse, president of St. Elmo Steak House, spoke in favor of the InterContinental plan.
Most of the comments concerned the skating rinks.
The proposed InterContinental Hotel would replace the two rinks and office building that exist there now.
The rinks "give Downtown heart. It's one of those really neat things about this city," said Tony Brozan, a Rolls-Royce Corp. engineer who plays hockey at the rinks.
The rinks are destined to close in May with or without a hotel.
"Regardless of the decision you make . . . our property will be for sale," said Susan Williams, president of the Indiana Sports Corp., which owns Pan Am Plaza.
The rinks, rented to the non-profit Indiana World Skating Academy for $1 a year, and the rest of the plaza have become too expensive for the sports corporation to continue to fund, she said.


Call Star reporter Jeff Swiatek at (317) 444-6483.

will someone please direct me to the nearest roof so that I can jump off of it!

A DRIVE-THRU???????

BTW, Regional Center petitions are not "voted" on. They are approved (or denied) administratively by a planner, unless this has changed. When I was on Staff, MANY times we wanted to deny poor/shoddy/embarassing development proposals (that drive-thru at Subway on South Street, the arby's, the White Castle). But, because the City doesn't have specific design criteria for the Regional Center (granted drive-thrus are not permitted, unless a variance is given), a lot of times we had to approve them. I know that there is a Staff member that has been working on design guidelines, but it is taking forever because developers are complaining.

As for the building, the elevations could be better than what is shown. I am disappointed that the 17-story tower won't happen, but I figured that with the Pan Am site and OMS stillbeing planned, it was a long shot.

Moochie...is Penn Tower still moving forward? Emporis has changed the completion date to 2008...

The skating rinks...good lord people. They are single-story buildings in the Mile-Square. If they are that important, build them somewhere outside of the M-S. AND they are going away REGARDLESS! It is not the Hotel that is forcing them out, but the owners of the parcel.

FINALLY, and speaking of the H-I, everytime I head out to work I can't help but think how great the skyline will look with a 700'-tall building at Pan Am!! The skyline will look really good and with the 250-footers (Conrad, National City, Barnes & Thornburg and LOS) all right there, the money shots will be great! Now, if we could get a 500'-700'-tall tower somewhere around the Federal Building near Riley Towers, we will have an excellent skyline. All the City needs is 2 more 500'+ towers and it will do wonders!

Aw, well I wouldn't call it a utopia, but I would say we have hit a bit of a boom. It aint all propaganda.
Yeah, I knew it was gych, but he had toned way down and was being less disruptive than plenty of people who I have seen on here and ought to be banned. Plus, he really does have some great info on Louisville, keeps threads going and interesting, and I am kind of sad he's gone.
He may have been a terd, but he was our terd. =]

Eric-

Please know that I was not denying that L'ville is booming, just making an observation that Gych/Scraperboy were one in the same.

I love your comment "he was our turd." He did posess a lot of knowledge, but he was the king of making a mole hill into a mountain!

It's an intersting observation that the Indianapolis Star tends to write stories in a away that makes it seem as if opposition towards a high profile, major projects out weighs support. They never seem to relish in progress, rather opting to kill dreams before they happen and sway people's attitudes towards opposition. Now everyone is going to walk around feeling sorry for the poor ice skaters. I say, go to the State Fair and skate to your heart's content!
I do feel sorry for the skaters. They're losing a very unique feature for a downtown area. But when you consider they were given 2-years advance notice and that they've been getting a ridiculous sweet-heart deal with the $1 rent, well, my heart's not exactly bleeding for them.

As an aside, I had to laugh when one of the people that got up and spoke yesterday said they were upset about losing the rinks and they drive their kids from Fishers many days a week. FISHERS! Jeez, I'm glad they come downtown and all, but you'd think they could find something a little closer to home.

High Mark partnership would pay $2.1 million to develop former hospital site for multiple uses

By Tom Spalding

City officials today are scheduled to consider a $2.1 million deal that would allow a private developer to create new uses for the sprawling grounds of the former Central State Hospital.

Under the proposal, High Mark Development Corp. would gradually pay the city for the 160-acre site and the rights to redevelop it. The Metropolitan Development Commission is set to vote on the matter today.

City officials say the proposal identifies High Mark as the sole developer. Talks continue about what the project will entail.

"As part of the project agreement and negotiations, there will be a stipulation that High Mark has to present a proposal for a plan by a certain date, and show they are moving forward," said Anne Coffey, a spokeswoman for the Department of Metropolitan Development.

The city hopes to hammer out an agreement by December.

For nearly a century and a half, Central State was home to many of the state's mentally ill. But since it closed in 1994, the site has languished -- a plain of fields, fences and grass populated by buildings such as the Indiana Medical History Museum and the Indianapolis Police Department's Mounted Patrol unit.

The city bought the site from the state for $400,000 three years ago and envisions turning it into a village of shops, apartments, schools, parks and cultural hot spots.

About six months ago, High Mark surfaced as the firm to spearhead the urban renewal.

It is a joint venture involving Mike Higbee of Development Concepts and Charlie Garcia of GM Construction. Higbee is a former director of the Metropolitan Development Department and has led redevelopment efforts in the Martindale- Brightwood neighborhood.

Their goals for Central State are to take care of environmental and design issues next year, with construction beginning by 2008.

"This is real estate that the market has abandoned," Higbee said. With the neighborhood's support, he said, the market will "take a second look. . . . It's a real asset on the Westside."

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061115/BUSINESS/611150410

I really hope that Central State is able to be developed like Ft. Ben. The grounds there have so much potential.

FYI:

There are 7 "Letters to the Editor" in this week's IBJ making pleas to save the skating rinks at Pan Am Plaza. WTF? They all say basically the same thing..."The only reason I come DT is for the rinks." Huh?

There is also a great article by some clueless woman with the title "Suburban appeal beats downtown." She goes on to menion how DT is a hassel and that there are no amenities DT that sh can't get in the 'burbs...

will someone please direct me to the nearest roof so that I can jump off of it!

A DRIVE-THRU???????

BTW, Regional Center petitions are not "voted" on. They are approved (or denied) administratively by a planner, unless this has changed. When I was on Staff, MANY times we wanted to deny poor/shoddy/embarassing development proposals (that drive-thru at Subway on South Street, the arby's, the White Castle). But, because the City doesn't have specific design criteria for the Regional Center (granted drive-thrus are not permitted, unless a variance is given), a lot of times we had to approve them. I know that there is a Staff member that has been working on design guidelines, but it is taking forever because developers are complaining.

As for the building, the elevations could be better than what is shown. I am disappointed that the 17-story tower won't happen, but I figured that with the Pan Am site and OMS stillbeing planned, it was a long shot.

Moochie...is Penn Tower still moving forward? Emporis has changed the completion date to 2008...

The skating rinks...good lord people. They are single-story buildings in the Mile-Square. If they are that important, build them somewhere outside of the M-S. AND they are going away REGARDLESS! It is not the Hotel that is forcing them out, but the owners of the parcel.

FINALLY, and speaking of the H-I, everytime I head out to work I can't help but think how great the skyline will look with a 700'-tall building at Pan Am!! The skyline will look really good and with the 250-footers (Conrad, National City, Barnes & Thornburg and LOS) all right there, the money shots will be great! Now, if we could get a 500'-700'-tall tower somewhere around the Federal Building near Riley Towers, we will have an excellent skyline. All the City needs is 2 more 500'+ towers and it will do wonders!


The completion date has always been 2008. Groundbreaking hasn't changed either, and is set for early 2007.

I fully expect to see delays on the Penn tower though. There are too many owners and too many potential obstacles for this one to go easily.

^^ ^^ ^^ No amenities DT? SHE'S A WITCH!!! BURN HER!!!:lol:

Well,it looks better then the present facade,I just hope that theres some brick work and some stone work between the windows instead of another aluminum facade.
Is the drive through in the back?

That whole area along Virginia Ave near the 'Zipper' building would make for a great residential neighborhood. It is in the middle of everything, yet no traffic Virginia becuase of the strange configuration.

Anybody noticed a green line on sidewalks around downtown? Looks like it designates the future cultural trail route.

I got this from the Dallas forum. The reason I am posting it is because the building looks very similar to the new Simon building downtown.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6135/img0007ei9.jpg

I just like the faqt that the majestic building wont have to share the street with those hidiouse structures,but it has alot of potential.

You all know that the MPO and the IRTC have been working for about 3 years on this now (MPO much longer) and I think that the Governor's Plan for a toll road may be just what we all needed to finally get the Legislature to see that metro-Indy needs rail. With Dem's controlling, if they actually decide to "progress" instead of revisiting DST, this may be our year to get the system funded. It wold be real easy for the Dem's to make this their own (much like the Repubs did with the Stadium and CC). A public-private option is perfect to get this paid for. You can bet yo' asses that if a private company gets to build this and is trying to make a profit, they will pull out all the stops (no pun intended)!


Bill may put Indiana on right track for light rail

The proposed toll road from Pendleton to Mooresville reawakened talk of mass transit that, in turn, has led many to wonder: Would Hoosiers use a comprehensive mass transit system that was on time and environmentally friendly?


We used to. Indiana had 3,000 miles of light rail for electric trains between cities. For 50 years beginning in the 1880s a lot of Hoosiers rode the efficient and cheap interurban system.
Then the business proposition changed. The automobile offered affordable independence. The government changed utility regulations and shifted subsidies to build roads. Before long the interurban system was derailed.
Sen. Bob Jackman is among those asking questions since Gov. Mitch Daniels made his toll road play last week. The Republican from Milroy, who co-chairs the Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Commission, has an idea that may again change the business proposition for transportation, this time in favor of railroads.
Tuesday afternoon he filed Senate Bill 14. The bill would give the Indiana Department of Transportation authority to do public-private partnerships for passenger and freight rail projects without legislative OK.
"We've got to find a different way to move people," Jackman said. It is a refrain I've heard many times since I connected mass transit with Daniels' proposal in my last column.
Then I hear people say mass transit by rail is cost-prohibitive. Why would government want to spend billions to develop a system that nobody would give up their car to ride?
Well, here's the beauty of Jackman's proposal. It creates a mechanism for private developers to share the cost. And the chance to make a profit gives them incentive to attract riders. Public-private partnerships tend to make people mad, Jackman said, "if somebody's going to make a buck. We're going to have to get over that."
Indeed. Let the developers share the cost -- and the profit.
Yes, there can be a profit in mass transit, even in Central Indiana where IndyGo is viewed only as transportation of last resort or for the poor. Jackman's proposal could unlock the profit potential in mass transit. A good operator could develop an efficient system like the interurban.
If leaders like Sen. Richard Lugar are effective, the public will begin to realize their cars cost a lot of money and pollute more than mass transit. My daily commute from Meridian-Kessler costs about $7.50 a day including gas, parking, depreciation and maintenance, according to an online calculator posted by Central Indiana Commuter Services. That's more than $1,800 a year.
Daniels' toll road is meant to build the economy by moving more goods through the area. Jackman's proposal would go the extra mile by moving people more efficiently.
That's really good for business.

Looks like the Indy Star got their hands on the INDOT study that IndyBob mentioned a couple days ago that says the outer beltway is not warranted. It's incredible how pompous Daniels' administration is; the INDOT study was apparently extremely thorough and was conducted over a period of 3.5 years and now (certainly as a result of pressure from Daniels) they're saying that the report was flawed and didn't take certain factors into account. Bullshit. Anybody interested in seeing the full report can check it out here:

http://www2.indystar.com/images/graphics/2006/11/1116_mobility.pdf

******************************************
INDOT saw few benefits in a beltway

Agency says previous look at a circular route, though, failed to consider several factors

By Theodore Kim and Mary Beth Schneider

An $850,000 study for the Indiana Department of Transportation found that an outer beltway around Indianapolis would not generate much long-term economic growth or offer a traffic panacea -- two of Gov. Mitch Daniels' key arguments for building a private toll bypass.

INDOT officials, however, say the study, completed last year, is flawed and does not take into account out-of-state truck traffic, what sort of new industries the bypass might attract and the impact of tolls and privatization on the project.

Daniels, who offered his plan last week, said the 75-mile bypass would spur economic growth in a clockwise arc from Pendleton to Indianapolis International Airport. He also said it would significantly relieve traffic on I-465 and I-69, especially in the traffic-clogged Hamilton County area.

The lengthy study, which examined the impact of building an entire circular freeway around the Indianapolis suburbs, was done from May 2002 to October 2005. The governor's plan is for a partial beltway that would be tolled and run by a private entity.

The INDOT study found that an outer beltway would result in a 15 percent decline in metropolitan congestion, cut trip times and divert an estimated 15,000 vehicles per day from parts of I-69 near I-465 in northeastern Marion County.

Yet, on the whole, an outer beltway would encourage more people to take to the roads and boost traffic volume on some highways, including I-70 and I-74, the study said. And rush-hour commuter traffic on I-465 and other area freeways would be little affected, it said, because most of that traffic is local.

The analysis also concludes that an outer beltway project "appears to have a generally negligible impact on regional development patterns." That is because an outer beltway would have to be built far from Indianapolis, perhaps 30 to 35 miles away from the city. Moreover, lots of undeveloped land with highway access still exists around the city, making it less likely that new businesses would choose to locate near an outer beltway.

"This finding holds true even in the long term (2040) after the alternative (bypass) has been in operation for more than 15 years," the study said.
It also said building such a highway might have the effect of shifting jobs and development away from Hamilton, Hendricks and Johnson counties to Madison County in the northeast.

Most of the governor's proposed road, dubbed the Indiana Commerce Connector, would follow the same path of the outer beltway that was studied, except that the southern portion of the governor's route is slightly farther south.

The project would cost as much as $1.5 billion and could open in about 10 years. An exact route has yet to be chosen.

INDOT commissioned its beltway review "to identify key issues and problems pertaining to suburb-to-suburb mobility in the nine-county Central Indiana region and to determine how those can be best addressed from a transportation planning perspective."

Jane Jankowski, a spokeswoman for Daniels, said the governor was briefed by INDOT on the agency's study in the weeks leading up to his announcement of the bypass project.

She said the report and Daniels' project were "not apples to apples."

"There are so many differences. It's only a small piece of the larger picture," she said of the study.

One key difference, she said, is that the study did not anticipate a beltway built by private dollars, rather than taxpayer funds. In addition, she said, there have been several big jobs announcements -- including the decision by Honda to build a plant in Greensburg -- that were not known when the study was conducted.

Gary Abell, an INDOT deputy commissioner, said the study also did not take into account increases in out-of-state truck traffic.

In a brief interview earlier this week, Daniels promised a new, exhaustive study of the road should it receive General Assembly approval. He said the private company that would eventually operate the bypass would undoubtedly conduct its own feasibility studies.

Neither Daniels nor transportation officials made mention of the INDOT study until asked about it. The study was not available on the agency's Web site Wednesday. Abell said the study was "inadvertently" purged as part of a Web site overhaul and would be restored as soon as today.

INDOT Commissioner Thomas Sharp, who is leaving the position, could not be reached for comment. Parsons-Brinckerhoff, an engineering company and the study's main author, and Indianapolis Mayor Bart Peterson, who hasn't offered his thoughts on the governor's plan, declined to comment.

So did former INDOT Commissioner J. Bryan Nicol, who headed the agency under the administration of Gov. Frank O'Bannon, when the study was launched.

Incoming House Speaker B. Patrick Bauer, D-South Bend, said he had not seen the study.

He said the legislature, which will decide whether to give Daniels the authority to establish a toll on the road, will hold hearings on the plan but wants to consider opinions from residents who would be affected by a bypass.

Asked if he'd heard anything that persuaded him to approve of the bypass, Bauer said: "Not yet. But that's what hearings are for."

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061116/LOCAL/611160477

The spin doctors are in. While I have no personal issues with Daniels, I do work with politicians everyday (in my job) and more times than not, when a study is discredited (removed from a website) and a politician move a project to the front there are some very powerful developers and builders pulling the strings in the background. As I posted earlier, the development community would love to see these cheap green fields become available in rual areas that have very little zoning restrictions in place. It a quick easy buck. I hope the Indy Star takes a stand on this one.

The spin doctors are in. While I have no personal issues with Daniels, I do work with politicians everyday (in my job) and more times than not, when a study is discredited (removed from a website) and a politician move a project to the front there are some very powerful developers and builders pulling the strings in the background. As I posted earlier, the development community would love to see these cheap green fields become available in rual areas that have very little zoning restrictions in place. It a quick easy buck. I hope the Indy Star takes a stand on this one.
Totally agree. I don't really have a problem with Daniels, I was just pissed after reading this article. I'm a dem and I supported his DST and Toll Road Privatization plans. I felt like both had solid reasoning behind them. This new toll road plan reeks on many levels, though. It seems to benefit no one except, as you said, the development community.

I'm not sure what political capital Daniels thinks he still has to pull this one off, especially now that the dems control the Indiana house.

I can't find it now...it was just on the page, but there was an article posted about how Daniels was given a standing 'O' in DC yesterday in front a of a group of "road builders" and they were lauding him for his efforts on the ICC (Indiana Commerce Connector.)

Here in the Town of Cumberland (where I work) we received a $60,000 grant from the MPO to develop a "multi-modal" transportation plan. Well, the plan will be completed next month and we have discussed the need to upgrade Mt. Comfort Rd to something similar to the Ronald Reagan in Hendricks Co. to connect 69 and 70, but no where in our public meetings or studies did there seem to be the need for a toll road.

Colts fans may have a beef with Steak n Shake ad

Thousands of Indianapolis residents doubtlessly will do a double-take this week when they open the mail to find out their hometown Steak n Shake restaurant is "a proud sponsor of the Dallas Cowboys."

That's quite a public-relations pickle for the Indianapolis-based restaurant chain, especially as the Colts and Cowboys gear up to play this Sunday in Dallas.
The company, known for its steakburgers and milkshakes, inadvertently sent a mailer promoting its "Cowboys side-by-side milkshake" to more than 600,000 Indianapolis residents.
It was intended for the Dallas market. Some were mailed in Chicago and St. Louis.
Steak n Shake, which sponsors the Colts and the Cowboys, apologized Wednesday.
"We feel just terrible," said Steven Schiller, chief marketing officer. "We sponsor only two teams. They just happened to be playing each other this weekend. We obviously messed up, and we hope Colts fans will be understanding."
Steak n Shake said the mistake was a result of human error by its mailing vendor, ADVO.
Steak n Shake said it had received about 10 calls from Indianapolis residents. "Some were angry. But when we explained it was an accident, they understood," Schiller said.
So Steak n Shake will offer dine-in customers wearing Colts gear a free milkshake -- including the Colts Blue and White Side-by-Side Shake -- from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. Sunday.

Great story about steak n shake:lol:

As for the beltway, I think Daniels is getting a little impatient trying to find a way to pay for the I-69 extension. I don't claim to be dem or rep, but I have been a big Daniels supporter for one reason. He is a business man. Gone are the days of war heroes and good ole boys getting ushered right into public office with no experience. It takes a business mind these days and that's why I like guys like Daniels and Peterson. If this beltway will feed our dependency on auto travel and hinder the efforts of getting light rail in Indy then it shouldn't be done. Indy is ready for mass transit and it NEEDS mass transit, not another super highway.

Colts fans may have a beef with Steak n Shake ad

Thousands of Indianapolis residents doubtlessly will do a double-take this week when they open the mail to find out their hometown Steak n Shake restaurant is "a proud sponsor of the Dallas Cowboys."

That's quite a public-relations pickle for the Indianapolis-based restaurant chain, especially as the Colts and Cowboys gear up to play this Sunday in Dallas.
The company, known for its steakburgers and milkshakes, inadvertently sent a mailer promoting its "Cowboys side-by-side milkshake" to more than 600,000 Indianapolis residents.
It was intended for the Dallas market. Some were mailed in Chicago and St. Louis.
Steak n Shake, which sponsors the Colts and the Cowboys, apologized Wednesday.
"We feel just terrible," said Steven Schiller, chief marketing officer. "We sponsor only two teams. They just happened to be playing each other this weekend. We obviously messed up, and we hope Colts fans will be understanding."
Steak n Shake said the mistake was a result of human error by its mailing vendor, ADVO.
Steak n Shake said it had received about 10 calls from Indianapolis residents. "Some were angry. But when we explained it was an accident, they understood," Schiller said.
So Steak n Shake will offer dine-in customers wearing Colts gear a free milkshake -- including the Colts Blue and White Side-by-Side Shake -- from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. Sunday.
Looks as if I'm going to be stopping through quite a few Steak n Shakes on Sunday! I'm a little suspicious though...

Well, by this time next week, we'll know about OMS. I'd like to think that no news right now is good news... If efforts had failed, they'd have pulled the plug by now.

Who knows... maybe we'll see a 60 story mixed use office and condo development on the old Arena Banking center site, and an urban Target with a few mid and highrise loft style buildings on the old MSA site... A man can dream can't he?

Cool models:
http://www.midwestmodel.com/20_coltsstadium.htm
http://www.midwestmodel.com/large_city.htm
http://www.midwestmodel.com/32_artmuseum.htm
http://www.midwestmodel.com/30_indyairport.htm

Cool models:
http://www.midwestmodel.com/20_coltsstadium.htm
http://www.midwestmodel.com/large_city.htm
http://www.midwestmodel.com/32_artmuseum.htm
http://www.midwestmodel.com/30_indyairport.htm

Heyyy, those are sweet. Some thoughts:

I thought the color of the brick used on LOS was lighter/redder. Oh well. The model looks MUCH better than paper/computer renderings.
I've seen the downtown Indy model before. Saw it at Circle Centre, I believe.
The museum model was nice. I've never been to the part of the museum that sits on the bluff, the "theatre" part.
I liked the airport model. Again, better than computer renderings. But certainly there should have been more planes at the model airport!

Heyyy, those are sweet. Some thoughts:

I thought the color of the brick used on LOS was lighter/redder. Oh well. The model looks MUCH better than paper/computer renderings.
I've seen the downtown Indy model before. Saw it at Circle Centre, I believe.
The museum model was nice. I've never been to the part of the museum that sits on the bluff, the "theatre" part.
I liked the airport model. Again, better than computer renderings. But certainly there should have been more planes at the model airport!

The actual brick going up right now is about that dark. perhaps even more brownish than what's on that model.

The roof won't be white like on that model either. Originally they were planning to use a white fabric similar to what's on the RCA dome, but when the material didn't stand up to wind testing they decided to use thin sheets of steel. I don't know if it'll be stainless, galvanized or whatever though.. newer renders show it having a black or grey roof.

sorry...dbl post

LOS will be great as will the new airport. Cool to think that with just 3 projects, airport, stadium, & cc, over $2 billion is being spent!


Does anyone else think that if and when the One Indiana Sq. building is given its new "do," that it would be nice for the Chase tower to redo the top? It is cool at night, but otheriwse, it looks like an after-thought, which is odd considering that is the part with the most thought! At a minimum, I think that they should do something to change the "dormer" look around the top and make the pyrimid-portion "smooth." HOWEVER, I think that it would look better if they got rid of the existing spires and top and made two big "spires" reaching to the same height instead. Have the spires more a part f teh structure as opposed to "antenna."

Only one of the Chase towers spires are functional,the other is purely decrative,weird huh?
,

LOS will be great as will the new airport. Cool to think that with just 3 projects, airport, stadium, & cc, over $2 billion is being spent!


Does anyone else think that if and when the One Indiana Sq. building is given its new "do," that it would be nice for the Chase tower to redo the top? It is cool at night, but otheriwse, it looks like an after-thought, which is odd considering that is the part with the most thought! At a minimum, I think that they should do something to change the "dormer" look around the top and make the pyrimid-portion "smooth." HOWEVER, I think that it would look better if they got rid of the existing spires and top and made two big "spires" reaching to the same height instead. Have the spires more a part f teh structure as opposed to "antenna."

Yah,I think our city-county building needs a nicer more tasteful facade,right now its just glass and cement,I think that a new facade like the Conrads would do it some good,and have like a nice observation deck or something,the city county building is just plain ugly!

I agree. The City County building has to be in the running for the ugliest building in Indy. The inside is cramped and unfriendly as well.

Yah,I think our city-county building needs a nicer more tasteful facade,right now its just glass and cement,I think that a new facade like the Conrads would do it some good,and have like a nice observation deck or something,the city county building is just plain ugly!

I believe that the City County building is terrible. In all aspects, from its overall design, to the facade (which is very bland IMO), to the small, cramped interior.

The solution: I dunno, maybe a new 40-60 story tower, or maybe two 20 story towers: one for the city and one for the county.

when I worked at the City and people would call asking where the City-County building was located, I would always say, "Look for the ugliest tal building downtown." They would come in and say, "You were right, it is the ugliest building."

I did some searches from back when the CCB was proposed. The OVER-WHELMING respnse from the public was that the building was "uninspired and ugly.", people hated it. Especially compared to what they were replacing.

I agree. The City County building has to be in the running for the ugliest building in Indy. The inside is cramped and unfriendly as well.

I have seen articles on how they need to either demolish it or add on to it,
I seriously think it needs demolished,when it was built the pop of Indy was around 500'000,now its about 800'000 and growing rapidly,
I think we should have it demolished,then use half of the block to build a six story courthouse that mimicks the Federal courthouse or the Statehouse,then have a black glass highrise for office space.

when I worked at the City and people would call asking where the City-County building was located, I would always say, "Look for the ugliest tal building downtown." They would come in and say, "You were right, it is the ugliest building."

I did some searches from back when the CCB was proposed. The OVER-WHELMING respnse from the public was that the building was "uninspired and ugly.", people hated it. Especially compared to what they were replacing.

I know,we had such a European courthouse,it could be compared to famouse European landmarks,it looked like something in Paris!
Its disgusting how our city just wiped out that jewl of history as if it was just "another" building,and the current city-county building looks like trash,I say bring it down!:banana:
The city county building represents Indianapolis,and it doesent give a good impression,its not even a tasteful highrise!
I found this horrible image of the destruction,Caution,may cuase panic attacks.
http://images.indianahistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=2039&REC=16
Heres an article on how it needs to be replaced.
http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=15961

the Courthouse was such a beauty!

I know,*cry*
I think the new city county building should have a copy of the old courthouse,just a little less ornate,just something that mimicks the old one with a nice clocktower.

I think that they will have a new city county building soon,mainly becuase of all the cool looking buildings going up around it,its either demolished,or refacaded like the zipper building.
No one likes it,well,very few like it,
its plain,ugly,its an eye sore,
and it just isnt nice enough for our beautiful downtown.

I bet evantually all the buildings in the downtown core with 70s and 60s facades will either be demolished or refacaded,I have a feeling the bank next to the hilbert circle theater will be refacaded,its ugly,those kinds of buildings arent eternally stylish like the lucas oil stadium,now the lucas oil stadium,Conrad hotel,and other new structures downtown have the older look,I like the buttresses on the lucas oil stadium,very classy.

While I'm not in favor of seeing the CCB demolished, I certainly would like to see them build a new building in the 40+ story range to serve as the new CCB. Perhaps the city could sell the old building to a developer that can replace the current facade and turn it into some decent looking mixed-used tower.

I do agree that the 60s-70s buildings need to be resurfaced, except for the Gold building. I kind of like how that one looks.

Yah,the gold building is so shiny!XD
Its awesome to just stare at(not kidding)it is fun to look at,untill the sun reflects in it and burns your eyes.=( that part isnt so fun,
Yah,I think that the parking garages also downtown should have facades put on them,like brick,or maybe an office building illusion like look.

Light rail tougher to sell?
Proposed highway could ease congestion, but transit backers say it won’t go away

A 2005 study for the state says an outer highway loop—like the one Gov. Mitch Daniels proposed Nov. 9—would reduce traffic northeast of the city, potentially splashing cold water on a rapid transit plan. But supporters aren’t backing down.

The Central Indiana Suburban Transportation and Mobility Study estimated that at least 15,000 fewer vehicles a day would use I-69, northeast of Interstate 465, if a bypass were built giving motorists a new link between I-69 and Interstate 70.

Most likely to use the bypass would be trucks and other through-traffic that now uses congested I-69 and I-465 on the northeast and east sides of the city.

Earlier CISTMS findings showed that even more—perhaps 28,000 vehicles a day—would be diverted from I-69. That’s just less than half of the 62,000 vehicles that travel between Hamilton and Marion counties for work each day.

New York City-based Parsons Brinckerhoff conducted the study for the Indiana Department of Transportation.

The study produced a theoretical outer beltway. The footprint of Daniels’ proposed bypass looks nearly identical to the CISTMS bypass, but without sections west and north of Indianapolis that Daniels does not propose building.

The findings raise a huge fiscal question: Could such a bypass reduce traffic enough to make a proposed rapid transit system for the northeast side an even tougher sell, politically?

“That is a concern of ours,” said Mark Fisher, business advocacy manager for the Greater Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce. The chamber supports the development of a mass transit system.

City planners might have to come up with more numbers to make their case, in light of the governor’s bypass proposal, Fisher added. “But, with the growth in the region, it’s not like [highway congestion] is going to stop.”

But Daniels’ proposed bypass could make it more challenging for transit supporters to wrest money from the Legislature.

IUPUI political science professor William Blomquist envisions three camps in the Indiana General Assembly. One consists of legislators from surrounding counties where the bypass would run. Another would be Marion and Hamilton County legislators who favor building a rapid transit system. The third is a broader group of legislators from around the state “who may wonder, ‘What’s in it for any of us?’” Blomquist said.

That camp might press for either a rapid transit system or Daniels’ highway bypass, but not both, Blomquist said—at least to the extent the state would be asked to help fund them.

Others say the giant transportation projects—each could cost up to $1.5 billion—are unconnected and shouldn’t be viewed as an “either-or” proposition.

“I think people underestimate the number of constituent groups that are interested in rapid transit,” said City-County Councilor Joanne Sanders, a Democrat, and a member of the Central Indiana Regional Transportation Authority.

CIRTA includes elected representatives of Marion and surrounding counties that eventually might have to pitch to their constituents the idea of a regional tax to help pay for a transit system.

Thrown for a loop
Daniels’ proposed bypass took city transit planners by surprise.

The Indianapolis Metropolitan Planning Organization, which coordinates transportation planning here, has been preparing to present for public comment next spring the preferred route alignment and vehicle type for a rapid transit system between downtown and points northeast, potentially as far as Noblesville.

MPO officials also have been firming up their ridership projections for such a system, which could consist of light rail, an automated people-mover-type vehicle or a dedicated bus-way.

MPO Manager Mike Dearing said it’s impossible at this point to say how the proposed bypass could affect his staff’s ridership projections. Much more than just CISTM’s data would be needed to draw conclusions about a potential bypass’s effect, Dearing added.

“I’m working from a blank slate here,” he said. “The [proposed bypass] project hasn’t even been submitted to us.”

Senior MPO traffic planner Amy Inman was more forthcoming.

“I don’t see [the bypass] as a competing factor for transit,” Inman said. “We have to have a balanced transportation system.”

A proposed rapid transit system—like the bypass idea—isn’t likely to beckon bulldozers in the next five years. But might the proposed bypass and its potential impact to ease northeast traffic slow transit’s momentum?

“My initial reaction is ‘no’,” said Christine Altman, president of CIRTA and a Hamilton County commissioner.

Even with the potential of a bypass diverting some traffic from I-69, local traffic from Fishers and Noblesville is only likely to grow worse, she said.

Transit’s basic appeal intact
Sanders said she’s not convinced the bypass would bring meaningful relief to traffic congestion, even if it diverted 28,000 vehicles a day from I-69. She noted that northeast commuters take a number of other secondary roads to downtown. “That [28,000] is less than the vehicles traveling on Keystone Avenue on a daily basis.”

Others cite economic development potential around rapid transit stations as a strong argument for its deployment. And planners say the long-range concept goes beyond the northeastern corridor. The finished system could involve up to seven spokes radiating from downtown to suburban areas.

Asked whether he would support Hancock County residents’ paying for a portion of a northeast-side transit system to benefit Fishers residents, Greenfield Mayor Rodney Fleming, without hesitation, said “no.”

But Fleming said he thinks there could eventually be support for a broader transit system. The Greenfield area itself could welcome transit in future years, especially if the proposed bypass that would pass near the city delivered economic growth, Fleming added.

“In the Midwest, rapid transit is always going to be an uphill battle,” said Shelbyville Mayor Scott Ferguson. “I don’t know that [the bypass proposal] hurts, but I don’t know that it helps it.”

The public—at least before officials have revealed the price tag and proposed a payment plan—appears supportive of rapid transit.

So far, there’s been no organized opposition. And in a survey of its business and civic group members released Nov. 10, the Lacy Leadership Association said 91 percent of the 337 people who responded said Indianapolis needs a public transit system.

Seventy-four percent said they would ride such a system to downtown sporting and other events, while 56 percent said they’d use it to commute to and from work.

“They’ll start using it for those purposes and realize how great it is [for work commute],” said Indianapolis attorney Susan Brock Williams, a member of the Lacy association and chairwoman of Mayor Bart Peterson’s Leadership Cadre.

“To be a world class city we need a rapid transit system.”

Most of those who responded said their current commute, at anywhere from 16 to 45 minutes, is already too long.

Survey respondents acknowledged there would be a price to pay: 90 percent expected it would require a tax increase of some sort to fund the system.

“People were pretty realistic about what it might take,” said Theresa Rhodes, executive director of Lacy Leadership Association.

A number of businesses have voiced support for a transit system because they often struggle to get lower-wage workers to their locations in the suburbs, noting that city buses don’t go that far.

The CISTMS study of the effects of an outer highway loop found “with one of two possible exceptions, it would provide little accessibility benefit to existing employment centers” such as downtown Indianapolis, the airport and the burgeoning commercial centers in Hamilton County near I-465, U.S. 31 and State Road 431.

A rapid transit system, though, would provide access to urban areas for work and for entertainment, said the chamber’s Fisher.

Rapid transit also could be a mobility solution for an aging population.

“What’s going to happen when the baby boomers have their licenses taken away?” Fisher added.

http://chicago.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/11/20/8/Img/Pc0080200.jpg

Indianapolis should have had rapid transit a long time ago, really.

Fashion Mall has the pull tolure most-prized anchors

Wo n d e r i n g who’ll fill the available anchor slot at The Fashion Mall at Keystone? Think pricey and plush.

The north-side mall is among the 100 top-performing malls in the United States, according to the investment firm Friedman Billings Ramsey. It already has many of the nation’s top upscale retailers—from Saks Fifth Avenue and Crate & Barrel to Tiffany and Restoration Hardware.

That says a lot. As Friedman Billings observes in a report, “The best indicator of drawing power for a mall is the number of leading, branded retailers.” Also notable: Within the mall’s main market area, the population is growing at a healthy clip, and the average household income is a robust $72,000.

So it’s a solid bet that the replacement for the soonto-shutter Parisian store at Fashion Mall will have at least as much sizzle. Nordstrom, which already operates a Circle Centre store catering partly to the convention crowd, could add a Fashion Mall outpost. Other possibilities: a Bloomingdale’s or Neiman Marcus.

Such luxury names are the envy of the mall industry.

Attracting any of them to a mall has a “strongly positive impact” on its drawing power, according to the “2006 Mall and Lifestyle Center Investors’ Handbook,” published by Virginia-based Friedman Billings.

Because of rapid consolidation among department stores in recent years, Bloomingdale’s and Neiman Marcus are the only major frou-frou chains left that aren’t already in the Indianapolis area.

Spokeswomen for Bloomingdale’s, Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom did not return calls or said they don’t talk about new stores until they have completed deals.

To be sure, the available slot has caught the attention of all three. After all, the shopping mall industry is mature, with only a smattering of new construction each year. Anchor slots in marquee malls don’t open often.

In this case, the spot’s in play only because of merger mania.

This fall, North Carolina-based Belk Inc. bought the 38-store Parisian chain from Alabama-based Saks Inc. for $285 million. A few weeks later, the Southern retailer said it would divest 11 stores, mostly in the upper Midwest.

Belk dealt the Circle Centre Parisian to Pennsylvania-based Bon-Ton Stores. The Fashion Mall location is one of seven Parisians that remain on the block.

A spokesman for locally based Simon Property Group Inc., The Fashion Mall’s owner, did not return calls.

Because Nordstrom’s already sold on the city, would it be most likely to pounce?

Retail brokers say it depends on how the Seattle-based company answers these questions: Is Indianapolis big enough for two stores? And would Parisian’s 128,000-square-foot footprint—less than three-quarters the size of its Circle Centre store—work with one of its existing store formats?

“Demographically speaking, it’s a home run. Locationally speaking, it’s a home run,” said veteran retail broker Mark Perlstein, a partner with The Linder Co., who isn’t privy to Nordstrom’s intentions.

As for Neiman Marcus and Bloomingdale’s, “I’m sure they have studied the market closely,” Perlstein said. Dallas-based Neiman and Bloomingdale’s, part of Cincinnati-based Federated Department Stores, both have stores up Interstate 65 in Chicago.

Friedman Billings’ mall report classifies Fashion Mall as “dominant.” On the other end of the spectrum, it calls Simon’s Lafayette Square Mall a “wallflower” and its Washington Square Mall a “tortoise.” Malls in either category might struggle to replace a departing anchor, the report says.

Perhaps it’s notable that an anchor at both is Burlington Coat Factory. The report notes, “It is a poorly kept secret that Burlington Coat Factory … is sometimes known as the grim reaper of death since its presence can signal a mall that is well into a period of decline.”

again, I was told that Neimen's will be the one to go in. I was also told that the existing store would have either an addition into the surface lot east of the store, or a total rebuild.

I am almost out of words related to the Governor's second bypass plan. I just can't believe in todays age, with oil, demographic shifts, and environmental and farmland concerns that this is even being discussed. This is a concept from the 50's and 60's not '06. He says people should give it a chance, a chance for what, more sprawl and a quick buck for his developer friends.

I am almost out of words related to the Governor's second bypass plan. I just can't believe in todays age, with oil, demographic shifts, and environmental and farmland concerns that this is even being discussed. This is a concept from the 50's and 60's not '06. He says people should give it a chance, a chance for what, more sprawl and a quick buck for his developer friends.
The Indy Star editorial board agrees with you (and I agree with you, I don't think Daniel's has a leg to stand on here):

Daniels' long road to selling tollway

Our position: The governor has to show more evidence in support of building a tollway around Indianapolis.

Based on true principle arguments -- promoting economic development and relieving traffic congestion -- Mitch Daniels has attempted to sell Hoosiers on the value of building a tollway on the southern and eastern edges of Indianapolis.

He's going to need more evidence to support those contentions if his proposal is to survive the legislative process.

Daniels' plan was undermined last week with the revelation that a study completed in 2005 by the state Department of Transportation found that an outer beltway would not significantly help the region's economy or smooth the flow of traffic.

Officials within the Daniels administration insist the study was flawed, failing to account for out-of-state truck traffic and privatization of road building and tollway operations. The study also was completed before several major employers, including Honda Motor Corp., announced plans to create thousands of jobs in the area.

Nevertheless, the governor is in a difficult spot.

Without his own study to counteract INDOT's findings, Daniels is forced to ask legislators and taxpayers to ignore findings that cost the state $850,000.
What ammunition can the governor pack to fight the battle of the tollway?

His own persuasive powers. The support of local officials enamored with the idea of an interstate-quality highway passing near their cities. And the warm embrace of road-building companies, which, of course, have their own interests to consider.

That's not exactly an overwhelming armada.

For two years, Daniels has won a string of legislative victories based on his electoral mandate to foster rapid change and the fact that his party controlled both chambers of the General Assembly. With Democrats now running the House, the governor knows his agenda will face harsh scrutiny.

The governor's initiatives have to be undergirded either by strong popular support or solid evidence of their validity if they're to survive.

It's unclear for now if he has either in his favor in pushing for a new tollway.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061120/OPINION/611200331

Just two thoughts: First, I wonder how many Colts games they will leave the roof open for. It kind of reminds me of Texas Stadium, as far as the openness over the field and not the stands goes. Second, I can't believe how much this mass transit thing is a no-brainer. Indy is on the cusp of needing a mass transit system, light rail to be exact. It's something that needs to be done now, instead of later. When we build it, development will take place around it and bolster the ridership even MORE. Plus, it adds to the quality of life. You can't tell me that, with everything else Indy has accomplished, when they get a system, people, especially young professionals, will see that as a something that makes Indy more progressive. It truly would make Indy stand out in the Midwest for cities of comparable size (e.g. excluding Chicago). Economically, businesses would look at a system as a boon and it could possibly entice more businesses to move here. This beltway idea is such old thinking. Like someone said earlier, with the oil situation and our attempt to ween ourselves off oil, i can't believe the beltway would be proposed and the mass transit not pushed for even harder. Even in this situation, it seems to me common sense screams much louder than the power of money. Also, in a lecture of mine at Purdue, we had a woman lecture on transporation emphasis in Civil Engineering. Her company, which i forgot, was working on the mass transportation study. I asked her when she thought it would be implemented, if at all. She said no sooner than 10 years. :ohno:

Just two thoughts: First, I wonder how many Colts games they will leave the roof open for. It kind of reminds me of Texas Stadium, as far as the openness over the field and not the stands goes.

I just thinking about this yesterday. I wonder if the roof will be used strategically, such as if there is particularly cold weather, and a warm weather team like Miami comes to Indy. Will they open the roof for any small advantage it might produce on the game?

This type of thing isn't unprecedented. Lord knows the Pats have always used poor field conditions to their advantage...

A very interesting article concerning traffic signs and the glut of unnecessary ones.... I think it deserves more study.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448747,00.html

CONTROLLED CHAOS
European Cities Do Away with Traffic Signs
By Matthias Schulz

Are streets without traffic signs conceivable? Seven cities and regions in Europe are giving it a try -- with good results.

"We reject every form of legislation," the Russian aristocrat and "father of anarchism" Mikhail Bakunin once thundered. The czar banished him to Siberia. But now it seems his ideas are being rediscovered.

European traffic planners are dreaming of streets free of rules and directives. They want drivers and pedestrians to interact in a free and humane way, as brethren -- by means of friendly gestures, nods of the head and eye contact, without the harassment of prohibitions, restrictions and warning signs.

A project implemented by the European Union is currently seeing seven cities and regions clear-cutting their forest of traffic signs. Ejby, in Denmark, is participating in the experiment, as are Ipswich in England and the Belgian town of Ostende.

The utopia has already become a reality in Makkinga, in the Dutch province of Western Frisia. A sign by the entrance to the small town (population 1,000) reads "Verkeersbordvrij" -- "free of traffic signs." Cars bumble unhurriedly over precision-trimmed granite cobblestones. Stop signs and direction signs are nowhere to be seen. There are neither parking meters nor stopping restrictions. There aren't even any lines painted on the streets.

"The many rules strip us of the most important thing: the ability to be considerate. We're losing our capacity for socially responsible behavior," says Dutch traffic guru Hans Monderman, one of the project's co-founders. "The greater the number of prescriptions, the more people's sense of personal responsibility dwindles."

Monderman could be on to something. Germany has 648 valid traffic symbols. The inner cities are crowded with a colorful thicket of metal signs. Don't park over here, watch out for passing deer over there, make sure you don't skid. The forest of signs is growing ever denser. Some 20 million traffic signs have already been set up all over the country.

Psychologists have long revealed the senselessness of such exaggerated regulation. About 70 percent of traffic signs are ignored by drivers. What's more, the glut of prohibitions is tantamount to treating the driver like a child and it also foments resentment. He may stop in front of the crosswalk, but that only makes him feel justified in preventing pedestrians from crossing the street on every other occasion. Every traffic light baits him with the promise of making it over the crossing while the light is still yellow.

"Unsafe is safe"

The result is that drivers find themselves enclosed by a corset of prescriptions, so that they develop a kind of tunnel vision: They're constantly in search of their own advantage, and their good manners go out the window.

The new traffic model's advocates believe the only way out of this vicious circle is to give drivers more liberty and encourage them to take responsibility for themselves. They demand streets like those during the Middle Ages, when horse-drawn chariots, handcarts and people scurried about in a completely unregulated fashion. The new model's proponents envision today's drivers and pedestrians blending into a colorful and peaceful traffic stream.

It may sound like chaos, but it's only the lesson drawn from one of the insights of traffic psychology: Drivers will force the accelerator down ruthlessly only in situations where everything has been fully regulated. Where the situation is unclear, they're forced to drive more carefully and cautiously.

Indeed, "Unsafe is safe" was the motto of a conference where proponents of the new roadside philosophy met in Frankfurt in mid-October.

True, many of them aren't convinced of the new approach. "German drivers are used to rules," says Michael Schreckenberg of Duisburg University. If clear directives are abandoned, domestic rush-hour traffic will turn into an Oriental-style bazaar, he warns. He believes the new vision of drivers and pedestrians interacting in a cozy, relaxed way will work, at best, only for small towns.

Indianapolis should have had rapid transit a long time ago, really.

I'm sure you know this already, but Indy did have an excellent mass transit system a long time ago.

1922ish - Indy Streetcar
http://hometown.aol.com/chirailfan/indg1923.gif

Here's a 2002 NUVO article I've posted here before, but it's worth reading again -

How did we go from best to worst?
By Mark Andrews

Jun 5, 2002, 12:26pm

“The best public transportation in the world!” That’s what many said about Indianapolis in the 1940s. In the year 2002, it’s hard to imagine that Indy could ever have made such a claim.

How did Indianapolis’ public transportation work at the height of its “glory days”?

Let’s say that it’s Saturday, June 1, 1946. The time is 7 a.m. You have made arrangements to have lunch with a friend in Chicago at noon. In order to do so, you must first go to the corner of 16th and Central to pick up your jacket from the dry cleaners. Your task is to then go to the corner of Main and Madison in Greenwood where you are to rendezvous with a friend who is going to return the $10 he owes you. You must then go back downtown to catch a train to get you to Chicago’s Union Station by noon. Your only mode of getting around is by public transportation.

Could you have done it? Let’s see ...

At exactly 7 a.m., you begin from Monument Circle and walk to the bus stop and board electric trolley bus No. 47 CENTRAL which ran every two minutes. You arrive at 16th and Central at 7:14 a.m. You pay your dry cleaning bill and just as quickly, you board an inbound No. 47 and are back downtown by 7:26 a.m. You then walk to the Traction Terminal interurban shed near the corner of Illinois and Market where you catch the electric commuter train that departs for Greenwood at 8:10.

Traveling at speeds of up to 75 mph, you arrive in Greenwood at 8:36 a.m. This particular line, in fact, was the very first electrically powered commuter line in the world, beginning operation on Jan. 1, 1901.

You meet your friend and quickly have your $10 in hand. Your returning commuter train pulls up to the platform at 8:45. You are back at the Traction Terminal at 9:10 a.m. You then walk to Union Station where you board the Monon Line’s 9:30 train for Chicago, which followed the route now holding the “Monon Trail.” Speeding along at 75-100 mph, you pull into Chicago’s Union Station at exactly 11:58 a.m., two minutes ahead of your goal.

Your total travel time was four hours and 58 minutes. You paid out a total of 14 cents for the trolley; $1 for the interurban round trip; $8 for your ticket to Chicago and back. And your total round trip cost would have been $9.14.
Unfortunately, you would not be able to make the same trip within the same amount of time in the year 2002. If you began at Monument Circle on a Saturday morning in June of 2002, you would have a 30 minute wait between IndyGo buses serving the area of 16th and Central. There are 50 minute intervals between buses serving Main and Madison in Greenwood. The same trip now by public transportation could take up to three and a half hours, compared to the two hours and 38 minutes in 1946.

And when you arrived at Union Station, you would be informed that the only Amtrak train to Chicago had already pulled out of the station at 5:30 a.m. You would have to wait until 5:30 on Sunday morning to ride to Chicago by rail.
It will take Amtrak about five and a half hours to get to Chicago’s Union Station. There are segments of track where the allotted speed for the train is 5 mph. You will arrive at Chicago Union Station at about 11:45 a.m. on Sunday, almost 24 hours late for your appointment.

Your total round trip will cost you $3 on IndyGo, and roughly $55 on Amtrak.
You would spend a grand total of $58 and 28 hours and 45 minutes to get to Chicago. Again, in 1946, those numbers would have been $9.14 and four hours and 58 minutes.

So, what happened? How could our public transportation services have deteriorated so much in only 56 years? How could Indy’s public transportation service have gone so quickly from best to worst in only 56 years?

In 1955, I was in kindergarten. I couldn’t wait to walk to school because along the way I would be able to watch as the electric trolley buses would make the sparks fly from the intersected overhead wires at the corner of South East and Minnesota on the near-Southside. That was a big thrill for a 4 year old.
Back then, public transportation was a source of awe and wonder for me. And with good reason! Even in 1955, there were still many electrically powered trolley bus lines, operated then by Indianapolis Railways Incorporated. The average wait between city buses in Indy at that time was 12-15 minutes. That compared to IndyGo’s current average of 50 minutes between buses. So then, again, we might ask, “What happened?” What could possibly have gone so wrong with public transportation in Indianapolis?”

I can remember asking my grandma why the city’s streetcar lines were dismantled. She replied — as she herself had been told — that the rails that once carried the city’s many streetcars and interurbans had been pulled up in order to be turned into bullets so that America could win World War II. I believed that to be true because Grandma told me so. And Grandma also believed that to be true because the local government had said so.

The Streetcar Conspiracy

This brings us to the dark agenda known as the “Streetcar Conspiracy.” This was the effort by General Motors, Firestone Tires and Standard Oil (of Indiana) to persuade America’s municipalities to dismantle their electric streetcar and trolley bus lines in favor of GM built, Firestone equipped, Standard Oil fueled diesel buses.

The whole issue finally did make its way to federal court, and after years of testimony and debate, the court ruled that GM, Firestone and Standard Oil were indeed guilty of conspiring to lobby and promote their products in the nation’s city halls at the expense of America’s very convenient, very affordable, very popular electric public transportation services. Following a few slaps on the wrist, the three corporations continued with their business as usual.

At the beginning of the 20th century, Indianapolis was “Motown” — “The Motor City.” This was due mainly to the city’s status as the nation’s rail hub. Indianapolis became the manufacture and assembly center for America’s burgeoning automobile industry, producing classics such as the Stutz Bearcat and the Deusenberg. The automobile manufacturers eventually came to the conclusion that they could more cheaply produce their autos in Detroit where the ore barges deposited their loads from the Minnesota mines, coming by way of the Great Lakes, and thus avoid the rail shipping costs. (The Indianapolis Motor Speedway was built for the sole purpose of providing Indy’s auto manufacturers with a place where their latest engines and models could be safely tested.)

By the time the Streetcar Conspiracy reared its head in Indianapolis (in the early 1940s), the auto industry already had more than the required number of lobbyists to persuade the city fathers to join them in their conspiracy. And so Indianapolis went “off track” from having one of the nation’s best public transportation services and went, instead, to its unflattering position in 2002 as having one of America’s worst transit systems.

The last streetcar to run in Indianapolis went from Broad Ripple Park to the corner of 16th and College in the summer of 1953. The city’s last electric trolley bus line was dismantled in 1957. The City-County Council voted in favor of creating the Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation, which took over the privately-owned city bus system in 1975, renaming it “Metro.”

Metro changed its name to “IndyGo” in 1998. Lack of commitment on the part of civic leaders over the many years — and the apathy and disinterest of the (would-be) riding public — have led to Indianapolis’ public transportation deterioration.

Is there any hope for improving the situation?

Looking ahead

It is a demographic fact that the city of Indianapolis grew and developed along the rail lines of the 19th and 20th centuries. The current patterns of urban sprawl are still closely attached to these rail beds. Many involved in local civic planning (as well as many in local government) have long envisioned a light rail network in the metropolitan area that utilizes many of these existing rail beds. Designs for the new mid-field terminal at Indianapolis International Airport include plans for a light rail station to be operational by the time of the terminal’s opening in 2007. Mayor Peterson has repeatedly expressed his support for public transportation, and has made light rail one of the goals of his administration.

The Metropolitan Planning Organization is looking into possibilities for light rail services in the region, using the facilities at the Beech Grove Amtrak yards as the storage and maintenance center for the trains. Among IndyGo’s plans are a new transit center connected to Union Station at Capitol and South Street, and an electric bus line to circulate passengers in the downtown area. Considering these possibilities, we can allow ourselves the luxury of imagining how our public transportation might come to work in the next few years.

Let’s say that it’s Friday,
June 1, 2007.
You want to meet a friend from out of town who is flying into Indianapolis International, arriving there at 8 a.m. You drive from your Franklin Township home to the light rail terminal station attached to the Amtrak yards near the corner of South Arlington and Churchman Avenue. This is known as the TRAX rail terminal. “TRAX” is the name given to the light rail service — a contraction of the words “TRAnsit” and “eXpress.” You park your car at the station’s (free) “park ’n’ ride” lot at exactly 7:23 a.m. The lot is quickly filling with the cars of the regular morning commuters. IndyGo buses are bringing passengers from as far south as Southport and Greenwood to transfer to the trains. Many bicyclists have locked their bikes in the secure bike racks.

You deposit your $3 into the automated ticket teller, and receive your “day pass” which is valid on all IndyGo services for 24 hours. The electrically powered two-car train is resting along side the platform, overhead wires providing the connection. You hear the familiar “tone” over the station’s P.A. system, indicating that the train will depart in one minute. Trains leave the terminal (headed for Union Station and Indianapolis International) every six minutes during rush hours, every 10 minutes through the day and evening hours. This line operates 24 hours a day, every day.

You quickly board and take your seat. At exactly 7:25, the train’s doors close and you feel the gentle tug as the No. 2 car in which you are riding is pulled by the first. A recorded female voice greets the passengers. “Welcome aboard TRAX: IndyGo light rail TRAnsit eXpress. Our first station stop is Emerson Avenue. Transfer here for route 56 EMERSON CROSSTOWN and route 16 BEECH GROVE.” The same message is repeated in Spanish for the benefit of Hispanic passengers as the city’s Hispanic population now exceeds 500,000.
Suspended screen monitors display information for the hearing impaired, as well as plot the train’s progress along the route. Within two minutes, your train pulls into the Emerson Avenue station, elevated over the street. You notice that your two-car train is already half full (170 seat capacity) even before the second wave of riders comes through the doors.

Sixty more passengers board the train at Emerson, most having transferred from bus lines. Following the 10 second (standard) wait, the doors again close, and the train moves on to the next station at Raymond and Sherman. The line is built parallel to the Conrail tracks into Union Station. The train’s speed approaches 45 mph as it glides smoothly — and almost silently — across the welded rail trackage.

At 7:29 a.m. the automated female voice announces your arrival (bi-lingually) as you pull into the Raymond/Sherman station. Seventy-five more passengers board, having transferred from IndyGo bus routes, and also from the park ’n’ ride lot that draws most of its traffic from drivers coming to the station from Southeastern Marion County and Shelby County, having exited from I-74.
It is now “standing room only” as the doors close and the train makes its way to the next two elevated stations, over Keystone Avenue, and then onto the station at State and English. By the time you arrive at the first downtown stop (Conseco station), the train is carrying over 300 passengers.
The voice announces, “This is Conseco station, exit here for Conseco Fieldhouse, Eli Lilly and the City-County Building. Our next stop is the IndyGo transit center at Union Station ... Passengers continuing on to Indianapolis International Airport will please remain on board.”

You pull into Union Station at 7:37 a.m., 12 minutes following your departure from the Beech Grove terminal. Most of the passengers exit at the transit center, but many more also board there; most are headed for the airport.
At 7:38 a.m., you roll out of the station toward the airport, traveling along side the Conrail tracks, and making station stops at the zoo/White River Parkway, Belmont Avenue, Warman Avenue, Holt Road, Lynhurst and Park Fletcher. The lighting inside the rail car suddenly seems to get brighter as the train begins its descent into the underground tunnel that takes it to its airport terminal subway station. The (by now) very familiar female voice announces your arrival in English and Spanish, and (this time) also in French and Japanese. You arrive at Indianapolis International Airport at 7:50 a.m., 25 minutes after leaving the Beech Grove park ’n’ ride and 10 minutes ahead of your friend’s arrival.

You very graciously pay for your friend’s rail fare as the two of you head for your car at the Beech Grove TRAX terminal. As you head to the city, your friend observes, “This is the best public transportation in the world!”

Where have we heard that before?

With the running of that first Greenwood interurban on Jan. 1, 1901, the concept of light rail was born in Indianapolis along the tracks that now parallel Madison Avenue on the city’s Southside. It would only be reasonable that Indy would re-invest in light rail.

After all, we invented it.

OMS deadline is Wednesday... I wonder if we'll hear some rumblings tomorrow...

OMS deadline is Wednesday... I wonder if we'll hear some rumblings tomorrow...

my money is on another extention :bash:

my money is on another extention :bash:

I could potentially see an extension for a week or 2, but really, if they haven't come up with anything coherent by now, they may never...

"Indiana's tallest building is changing owners after a merger announced Sunday.


The Chase Tower, owned by Chicago-based Equity Office Properties Trust, will become a property of Blackstone Real Estate Partners as part of Blackstone's $36 billion acquisition of the trust.

The 49-story Chase Tower is a landmark on the Indianapolis skyline and features more than 1.05 million square feet of office space. The property overlooks Monument Circle."

So I'm guessing the building name will change again? Didn't it like JUST become the Chase Tower?

I'm sure you know this already, but Indy did have an excellent mass transit system a long time ago.

1922ish - Indy Streetcar
http://hometown.aol.com/chirailfan/indg1923.gif

Here's a 2002 NUVO article I've posted here before, but it's worth reading again -

How did we go from best to worst?
By Mark Andrews

Jun 5, 2002, 12:26pm

“The best public transportation in the world!” That’s what many said about Indianapolis in the 1940s. In the year 2002, it’s hard to imagine that Indy could ever have made such a claim.

How did Indianapolis’ public transportation work at the height of its “glory days”?

Let’s say that it’s Saturday, June 1, 1946. The time is 7 a.m. You have made arrangements to have lunch with a friend in Chicago at noon. In order to do so, you must first go to the corner of 16th and Central to pick up your jacket from the dry cleaners. Your task is to then go to the corner of Main and Madison in Greenwood where you are to rendezvous with a friend who is going to return the $10 he owes you. You must then go back downtown to catch a train to get you to Chicago’s Union Station by noon. Your only mode of getting around is by public transportation.

Could you have done it? Let’s see ...

At exactly 7 a.m., you begin from Monument Circle and walk to the bus stop and board electric trolley bus No. 47 CENTRAL which ran every two minutes. You arrive at 16th and Central at 7:14 a.m. You pay your dry cleaning bill and just as quickly, you board an inbound No. 47 and are back downtown by 7:26 a.m. You then walk to the Traction Terminal interurban shed near the corner of Illinois and Market where you catch the electric commuter train that departs for Greenwood at 8:10.

Traveling at speeds of up to 75 mph, you arrive in Greenwood at 8:36 a.m. This particular line, in fact, was the very first electrically powered commuter line in the world, beginning operation on Jan. 1, 1901.

You meet your friend and quickly have your $10 in hand. Your returning commuter train pulls up to the platform at 8:45. You are back at the Traction Terminal at 9:10 a.m. You then walk to Union Station where you board the Monon Line’s 9:30 train for Chicago, which followed the route now holding the “Monon Trail.” Speeding along at 75-100 mph, you pull into Chicago’s Union Station at exactly 11:58 a.m., two minutes ahead of your goal.

Your total travel time was four hours and 58 minutes. You paid out a total of 14 cents for the trolley; $1 for the interurban round trip; $8 for your ticket to Chicago and back. And your total round trip cost would have been $9.14.
Unfortunately, you would not be able to make the same trip within the same amount of time in the year 2002. If you began at Monument Circle on a Saturday morning in June of 2002, you would have a 30 minute wait between IndyGo buses serving the area of 16th and Central. There are 50 minute intervals between buses serving Main and Madison in Greenwood. The same trip now by public transportation could take up to three and a half hours, compared to the two hours and 38 minutes in 1946.

And when you arrived at Union Station, you would be informed that the only Amtrak train to Chicago had already pulled out of the station at 5:30 a.m. You would have to wait until 5:30 on Sunday morning to ride to Chicago by rail.
It will take Amtrak about five and a half hours to get to Chicago’s Union Station. There are segments of track where the allotted speed for the train is 5 mph. You will arrive at Chicago Union Station at about 11:45 a.m. on Sunday, almost 24 hours late for your appointment.

Your total round trip will cost you $3 on IndyGo, and roughly $55 on Amtrak.
You would spend a grand total of $58 and 28 hours and 45 minutes to get to Chicago. Again, in 1946, those numbers would have been $9.14 and four hours and 58 minutes.

So, what happened? How could our public transportation services have deteriorated so much in only 56 years? How could Indy’s public transportation service have gone so quickly from best to worst in only 56 years?

In 1955, I was in kindergarten. I couldn’t wait to walk to school because along the way I would be able to watch as the electric trolley buses would make the sparks fly from the intersected overhead wires at the corner of South East and Minnesota on the near-Southside. That was a big thrill for a 4 year old.
Back then, public transportation was a source of awe and wonder for me. And with good reason! Even in 1955, there were still many electrically powered trolley bus lines, operated then by Indianapolis Railways Incorporated. The average wait between city buses in Indy at that time was 12-15 minutes. That compared to IndyGo’s current average of 50 minutes between buses. So then, again, we might ask, “What happened?” What could possibly have gone so wrong with public transportation in Indianapolis?”

I can remember asking my grandma why the city’s streetcar lines were dismantled. She replied — as she herself had been told — that the rails that once carried the city’s many streetcars and interurbans had been pulled up in order to be turned into bullets so that America could win World War II. I believed that to be true because Grandma told me so. And Grandma also believed that to be true because the local government had said so.

The Streetcar Conspiracy

This brings us to the dark agenda known as the “Streetcar Conspiracy.” This was the effort by General Motors, Firestone Tires and Standard Oil (of Indiana) to persuade America’s municipalities to dismantle their electric streetcar and trolley bus lines in favor of GM built, Firestone equipped, Standard Oil fueled diesel buses.

The whole issue finally did make its way to federal court, and after years of testimony and debate, the court ruled that GM, Firestone and Standard Oil were indeed guilty of conspiring to lobby and promote their products in the nation’s city halls at the expense of America’s very convenient, very affordable, very popular electric public transportation services. Following a few slaps on the wrist, the three corporations continued with their business as usual.

At the beginning of the 20th century, Indianapolis was “Motown” — “The Motor City.” This was due mainly to the city’s status as the nation’s rail hub. Indianapolis became the manufacture and assembly center for America’s burgeoning automobile industry, producing classics such as the Stutz Bearcat and the Deusenberg. The automobile manufacturers eventually came to the conclusion that they could more cheaply produce their autos in Detroit where the ore barges deposited their loads from the Minnesota mines, coming by way of the Great Lakes, and thus avoid the rail shipping costs. (The Indianapolis Motor Speedway was built for the sole purpose of providing Indy’s auto manufacturers with a place where their latest engines and models could be safely tested.)

By the time the Streetcar Conspiracy reared its head in Indianapolis (in the early 1940s), the auto industry already had more than the required number of lobbyists to persuade the city fathers to join them in their conspiracy. And so Indianapolis went “off track” from having one of the nation’s best public transportation services and went, instead, to its unflattering position in 2002 as having one of America’s worst transit systems.

The last streetcar to run in Indianapolis went from Broad Ripple Park to the corner of 16th and College in the summer of 1953. The city’s last electric trolley bus line was dismantled in 1957. The City-County Council voted in favor of creating the Indianapolis Public Transportation Corporation, which took over the privately-owned city bus system in 1975, renaming it “Metro.”

Metro changed its name to “IndyGo” in 1998. Lack of commitment on the part of civic leaders over the many years — and the apathy and disinterest of the (would-be) riding public — have led to Indianapolis’ public transportation deterioration.

Is there any hope for improving the situation?

Looking ahead

It is a demographic fact that the city of Indianapolis grew and developed along the rail lines of the 19th and 20th centuries. The current patterns of urban sprawl are still closely attached to these rail beds. Many involved in local civic planning (as well as many in local government) have long envisioned a light rail network in the metropolitan area that utilizes many of these existing rail beds. Designs for the new mid-field terminal at Indianapolis International Airport include plans for a light rail station to be operational by the time of the terminal’s opening in 2007. Mayor Peterson has repeatedly expressed his support for public transportation, and has made light rail one of the goals of his administration.

The Metropolitan Planning Organization is looking into possibilities for light rail services in the region, using the facilities at the Beech Grove Amtrak yards as the storage and maintenance center for the trains. Among IndyGo’s plans are a new transit center connected to Union Station at Capitol and South Street, and an electric bus line to circulate passengers in the downtown area. Considering these possibilities, we can allow ourselves the luxury of imagining how our public transportation might come to work in the next few years.

Let’s say that it’s Friday,
June 1, 2007.
You want to meet a friend from out of town who is flying into Indianapolis International, arriving there at 8 a.m. You drive from your Franklin Township home to the light rail terminal station attached to the Amtrak yards near the corner of South Arlington and Churchman Avenue. This is known as the TRAX rail terminal. “TRAX” is the name given to the light rail service — a contraction of the words “TRAnsit” and “eXpress.” You park your car at the station’s (free) “park ’n’ ride” lot at exactly 7:23 a.m. The lot is quickly filling with the cars of the regular morning commuters. IndyGo buses are bringing passengers from as far south as Southport and Greenwood to transfer to the trains. Many bicyclists have locked their bikes in the secure bike racks.

You deposit your $3 into the automated ticket teller, and receive your “day pass” which is valid on all IndyGo services for 24 hours. The electrically powered two-car train is resting along side the platform, overhead wires providing the connection. You hear the familiar “tone” over the station’s P.A. system, indicating that the train will depart in one minute. Trains leave the terminal (headed for Union Station and Indianapolis International) every six minutes during rush hours, every 10 minutes through the day and evening hours. This line operates 24 hours a day, every day.

You quickly board and take your seat. At exactly 7:25, the train’s doors close and you feel the gentle tug as the No. 2 car in which you are riding is pulled by the first. A recorded female voice greets the passengers. “Welcome aboard TRAX: IndyGo light rail TRAnsit eXpress. Our first station stop is Emerson Avenue. Transfer here for route 56 EMERSON CROSSTOWN and route 16 BEECH GROVE.” The same message is repeated in Spanish for the benefit of Hispanic passengers as the city’s Hispanic population now exceeds 500,000.
Suspended screen monitors display information for the hearing impaired, as well as plot the train’s progress along the route. Within two minutes, your train pulls into the Emerson Avenue station, elevated over the street. You notice that your two-car train is already half full (170 seat capacity) even before the second wave of riders comes through the doors.

Sixty more passengers board the train at Emerson, most having transferred from bus lines. Following the 10 second (standard) wait, the doors again close, and the train moves on to the next station at Raymond and Sherman. The line is built parallel to the Conrail tracks into Union Station. The train’s speed approaches 45 mph as it glides smoothly — and almost silently — across the welded rail trackage.

At 7:29 a.m. the automated female voice announces your arrival (bi-lingually) as you pull into the Raymond/Sherman station. Seventy-five more passengers board, having transferred from IndyGo bus routes, and also from the park ’n’ ride lot that draws most of its traffic from drivers coming to the station from Southeastern Marion County and Shelby County, having exited from I-74.
It is now “standing room only” as the doors close and the train makes its way to the next two elevated stations, over Keystone Avenue, and then onto the station at State and English. By the time you arrive at the first downtown stop (Conseco station), the train is carrying over 300 passengers.
The voice announces, “This is Conseco station, exit here for Conseco Fieldhouse, Eli Lilly and the City-County Building. Our next stop is the IndyGo transit center at Union Station ... Passengers continuing on to Indianapolis International Airport will please remain on board.”

You pull into Union Station at 7:37 a.m., 12 minutes following your departure from the Beech Grove terminal. Most of the passengers exit at the transit center, but many more also board there; most are headed for the airport.
At 7:38 a.m., you roll out of the station toward the airport, traveling along side the Conrail tracks, and making station stops at the zoo/White River Parkway, Belmont Avenue, Warman Avenue, Holt Road, Lynhurst and Park Fletcher. The lighting inside the rail car suddenly seems to get brighter as the train begins its descent into the underground tunnel that takes it to its airport terminal subway station. The (by now) very familiar female voice announces your arrival in English and Spanish, and (this time) also in French and Japanese. You arrive at Indianapolis International Airport at 7:50 a.m., 25 minutes after leaving the Beech Grove park ’n’ ride and 10 minutes ahead of your friend’s arrival.

You very graciously pay for your friend’s rail fare as the two of you head for your car at the Beech Grove TRAX terminal. As you head to the city, your friend observes, “This is the best public transportation in the world!”

Where have we heard that before?

With the running of that first Greenwood interurban on Jan. 1, 1901, the concept of light rail was born in Indianapolis along the tracks that now parallel Madison Avenue on the city’s Southside. It would only be reasonable that Indy would re-invest in light rail.

After all, we invented it.

VERY fascinating. Indy had the ideal public transit system back in the day. However, that is all history.

I am optomistic that the City will do what is necessary to get us back on the fast track again. (pun intended) :)

I think that if Indianapolis wants to become more walkable, that we should put in a trolley around central township,we would depend much less on oil,
it would also help the growth of downtown,and the economy,
what would home buyers want?

A) To live in a suburb and tottally depend on oil which costs you a fortune.
OR
B) live in downtown in a very old area with amazing architecture and walk or ride a trolley everywhere and not depend on oil at all!
Oh the oil companies are going to hate us if we get trolleys XD.

"Indiana's tallest building is changing owners after a merger announced Sunday.


The Chase Tower, owned by Chicago-based Equity Office Properties Trust, will become a property of Blackstone Real Estate Partners as part of Blackstone's $36 billion acquisition of the trust.

The 49-story Chase Tower is a landmark on the Indianapolis skyline and features more than 1.05 million square feet of office space. The property overlooks Monument Circle."

So I'm guessing the building name will change again? Didn't it like JUST become the Chase Tower?

No, the name will remain Chase Tower.

First new story on OMS... Too bad it says exactly nothing new...

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5709313&nav=9Tai

New Market Square deadline set for Wednesday
Nov 20, 2006 05:30 PM

Indianapolis - City leaders are busy working on the future skyline of Indianapolis. Two major projects will impact how the landscape looks: a tower of condominiums on the Market Square Arena site and a mega-hotel for convention business.

It took a matter of seconds to bring down Market Square Arena, but more than two and a half years after an announcement for condos, there is still no high rise tower on what is a gravel parking lot. Wednesday is the final deadline for Market Square Partners to determine a plan to put a mix of residential and retail on the site.

The main problem holding back the project is meeting a pre-sale quota before a tower is built. Mayor Bart Peterson says it's crucial to get construction under way so people see a foundation being built and steel going up.

"When they see that I think they will want to get in on that. But when it is just a model and no construction going on at the site, I think people's ability to believe it's going to be done is reduced and I think that is what the problem has been," said the mayor.

Another addition to the downtown skyline is a proposed mega-size hotel to handle the increase in projected convention business. A committee is studying three options and Mayor Peterson says there are pros and cons about each proposal and in his mind, no clear favorite.

For Peterson it comes down to location, what incentives each developer wants from the city and their ability to get the appropriate financing. "I don't think it is real easy to assign a point value to any of those things. I think it has to come down to a feel and those are the folks who have the best feel because they are going to have to sell the space and sell the hotel package," he said.

On Wednesday, we will know whether the current developers for the Market Square Arena site have a solid plan to build or whether Mayor Peterson will open up the process to other developers. As for the convention center hotel, Mayor Peterson expects to have a recommendation from the committee within the next three to four weeks.

City leaders say both projects will have a major impact on Indianapolis.

Very diplomatic of Mayor Peterson, but ALL signs and basic knowledge point to the Hotel InterContinental going up. The title of the article suggest the HI due to "skyline impact" and maybe OMS site too. The developers of the Courtyard site are building a water park regardless of city funds, so why wouldn't you get 2 projects? And again, construction cranes towering over a city is a MAJOR sign of progress!

As for the OMS site, If they are able to get a large retailer to "achor" and throw money-up for the project, it will be a go. I wouldn't be surprised if the final plan is for a taller tower too.

Can you imagine 2 40-story towers going up at the same time?

Why is it going to take the committee another 3-4 weeks to make such an obvious decision? They made a point at the meeting last week of saying that the construction timeline will be quite agressive, in order to have everything in place for the Final Four and the CC expansion opening in 2010.

If the timing is so crucial, why are we sitting here twiddling our thumbs right now?