...continued from the previous thread.

Here's a link to the old thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=359031

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4376/02fg0.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8032/04tw8.jpg

Hope they clean up that triangle/park in the foreground. The owners of the Corn Exchange are now sitting on a gold mine (building on left)

holy shit!!!

the Corn Exchange will be perfect for a high end coffe shop, restaurant or bar now. What luck!

Is it taps for this?: :goodbye:

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9615/courtst2wp8.jpg

Unless a tenant needs space in 2008 and can't wait for 2010, Paladino is probably not a happy camper today.

I see no problems with the tower...very nice, clean and ultra modern.

The federal courthouse could help this...some of the leasing could come from supporting offices or vendors of the court. I dunno.

Yes the Corn Exchange is a goldmine...but with all the empty surface parking lots around the city...the fine building can stand.

very cool!

Is it taps for this?: :goodbye:

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9615/courtst2wp8.jpg

Unless a tenant needs space in 2008 and can't wait for 2010, Paladino is probably not a happy camper today.

Ah- OK. I see what you mean, now. 50 court will be done far in advance of this new one correct? Isn't it going to have a big M&T group in there. If so, that should allow it to move forward. I think that if the new building is agressively marketed outside of the region, then there may be room for this one as well.

I can deal with the new one!

Tallest city building proposed (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061025/1024102.asp)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40-story office-hotel structure also would be most expensive

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
10/25/2006

http://www.buffalonews.com/graphics/2006/10/25/actualsize/1025a1issa.jpg
Sketch by Cannon Design shows proposed building, which, at 600 feet, would be Buffalo's tallest.

The British developer who recently bought the faded Statler Towers wants to construct what would be Buffalo's tallest, most expensive building.
Bashar Issa, of Manchester, England, confirmed Tuesday he wants to build a 40-story, 1.2-million-square-foot skyscraper at the corner of South Elmwood Avenue and West Mohawk Street, one block north of City Hall.

At 600 feet tall, the $361 million, ultra-contemporary glass and steel office, hotel and condo tower would eclipse the HSBC Center in height by 33 feet and would rank among the tallest buildings between New York City and Chicago.

"It will give new hope to Buffalo. It will be a symbol of rebirth for those who live and work here and to those outside the region that this is a city on the rise," Issa said.

The developer, who has just embarked on an $80 million makeover of the historic Statler building, said he's not banking on any public funds for the most expensive building ever proposed for Buffalo.

"We plan to privately finance it. I believe projects should work without public money, and if it comes, that's a bonus," Issa said.

While Buffalo has a long history of dramatic development projects that have never seen the light of day, those connected with Issa's proposal say he has the resources to get the building constructed.

The building, designed by Grand Island-based Cannon Design, would include 500,000 square feet of office space spread over 20 floors, topped by a 10-story, 300-room luxury hotel. The top 10 floors would house about 80 condominiums priced at $500,000 and up. The tower also incorporates interior parking space for more than 800 vehicles.

Cannon's Harry L. Warren, the project's lead architect, said he drew his inspiration for the translucent tower from winter scenes at Niagara Falls.

"It's evocative of a frozen waterfall. It's crystalline and faceted," Warren said. "Because you'll be able to see through it, it will be light and airy, touching lightly on the landscape."

Another unusual design feature is metal lattice work that will cover three sides of the glass facade, working to deflect glare both outside and inside the building.

"It is rather like a bride's veil. You can see her face, but you also see the diaphanous screen. It's very intriguing," Warren said.

The decidedly contemporary design received positive reviews from a group of local architects who were briefed on the project earlier this week. John Laping, of Kideney Architects, who also serves as chairman of the Buffalo Preservation Board, said Buffalo is the perfect location for the distinctive structure.

"We didn't have anything like the Guaranty Building when it was built. The Darwin Martin house design was a one-of-kind," Laping said. "Those are architectural icons we've learned to love. I don't know why we can't love a beautiful glass tower, too."

The new building, to be located on what is now a surface parking lot, would be built to the rear of the new federal courthouse. That planned 10-story, semi-elliptical building also relies heavily on glass and light in its modernistic design.

At $361 million, the mixed-use tower surpasses the price tag of all other downtown buildings. By comparison, the HSBC Center, built in 1972, sold last year for $85 million and currently is back on the market at $121 million.

Cannon, whose portfolio has buildings across Western New York and around the world, was thrilled to take on Issa's challenge to design a signature skyscraper for downtown Buffalo.

"This is very special for us, professionally and personally. Not only is it the tallest building we've ever done, it's for our own community," Warren said.

Issa said he hopes to start construction by the end of 2008, with the first tenants in place in 2010.

"The starting time will depend on how long it takes to get through the design process and preleasing. We'd like to have it at least 40 percent leased when we begin," he said.

Cannon has signaled interest in moving its headquarters from Grand Island to the new building, which would bring about 200workers downtown.

George Hamberger, from RealtyUSA, who is representing Issa in his Buffalo projects, said he will be focusing on luring businesses from New York and Toronto to build a tenant base for the signature building.

"I see it as a carrot to bring some new blood to the market. For so long we were robbing from Peter to pay Paul to fill space downtown, but we're now attracting new businesses, and this will aid that cause," Hamberger said.

Mayor Byron W. Brown also sees the proposed tower as a symbol of changing economic times for the city.

"Over the past year, we've seen tremendous investment citywide, and particularly in downtown. These types of proposals reinforce the value and benefit of investing in Buffalo," Brown said, calling the design "bold and exciting."

Issa's project also has captured the interest of competing Buffalo developers, like Amherst's Uniland Development Co., with two nearby projects. "It's encouraging to see out-of-town interest in a project that would further the progress already under way in building a vital downtown core," said Uniland's Michael Montante.

e-mail: slinstedt@buffnews.com

On the top Left you can clearly see an alien hovercraft overseeing the new tower's completion. (or it could be a styrofoam cup... you decide).

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/7918/issatowercutgm1.jpg
Wow, looks like some sort of hybrid soufflé cup/shuttlecock. Very interesting.

So, this 40% requirement - is that just the office portion, or the whole shot? If 25% of the building is hotel, that would be almost enough right there...

Wow, awesome... it's so trendy.

In fact, too trendy for Buffalo. Build it in Atlanta!!! :D
This is nothing. We'll be eating shit like Atlanta for breakfast once we ever get rolling again... :D

I wanna see what everyone has to say about the view from Fort Erie (side shot of building from far away)...i haven't seen anyone post that pic yet.

http://img274.imageshack.us/img274/103/01jh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

^ I think that view is misleading. Might be too wide? I think it'll look great when it is done.

Seems a bit too short too. I would think it would be noticeably taller than HSBC, especially owing that HSBC is a bit more in the background wrt to BSC/Issa in that picture.

And would it really be that bright and glossy? I find that a bit tough to swallow, nothing looks like that in real life. You'd be able to see evening glare from it from as far as Chicago if it looked like that!

You know, in terms of shape (not building materials) it's resemblence to the Corning Tower is uncanny.



...I just noticed my post count dropped by about 600 again. lol

And would it really be that bright and glossy? I find that a bit tough to swallow, nothing looks like that in real life. You'd be able to see evening glare from it from as far as Chicago if it looked like that!
I think that's just the way the model rendering is drawn... not the way the building will look.

The early models of the Federal Courthouse were also super white and glaring, but later artist renderings showed a more realistic look of the glass and reflections, etc.

All of us should convice our employers, friends and family to move into the tower so he can get his 40% pre-lease as quickly as possible!

:)

What a fantastic way to start out a new thread, talking about a proposal for our new tallest building! :)

Holy Toledo, that would be a great addition to Buffalo's skyline. So would this be a mixed use building? A little modern architecture to go with the old.

Hey! Hey! Anyone hear about the proposed Wal-Mart on Niagara Falls Blvd in North Tonawanda? Yay!

They should put a Tim Hortons on top of this new building. Buffalo can then claim the highest donut shop in the world.

Ugh.

I'm actually doing up a proposal for a shopping center on Niagara Falls Blvd in Amherst at the extreme northern end of the county (Evergreen Golf Course), which was a previous siting for it.

I hate sprawl, but I'm in favor of anything that removes a golf course.

:( ME NO HAPPY. GOLF COURSE GOING BYE BYE:(

Ah how can you say that sarge...I love golf, although I can agree golf courses are rather large chunks of real estate.

WHAT!!!! They cant get rid of that golf course!!! I play there all the time!! For a frigging Wal-Fart??!!! This thread was going soooo good too. I f@cking hate wal-fart!! :badnews:

How come i just lost about 100 posts ??????? i was going good too.

WHAT!!!! They cant get rid of that golf course!!! I play there all the time!! For a frigging Wal-Fart??!!!
No, I said former siting. They're now going in just over the county line, Niagara Falls Blvd - Erie Ave - Wurlitzer area.

Instead you'll get some other, less community-destroying suburban abomination. Assuming it is successfully rezoned.

No, I said former siting. They're now going in just over the county line, Niagara Falls Blvd - Erie Ave - Wurlitzer area.

Instead you'll get some other, less community-destroying suburban abomination. Assuming it is successfully rezoned.


The good news is, the Town Board is anti-development right now. Witness the rezoning to hopefully block Walmart on Millersport.

They should put a Tim Hortons on top of this new building. Buffalo can then claim the highest donut shop in the world.

ExWNY'er, that's ironic you mentioned Tim Hortons, because I heard and read a new Tim Horton's is going downtown inside One HSBC Center.

BTW, Wal-Mart SUCKS A$$!

Tim Hortons to open 1st downtown store

Business First of Buffalo - 1:52 PM EDT Monday
by James Fink

For the first time in the company's history, Tim Hortons, the popular coffee and restaurant chain named after the late Buffalo Sabres' defenseman, is opening a downtown Buffalo location.

Tim Hortons has signed a lease to open a store in the restaurant and fast food area of One HSBC Center, downtown's tallest office building.

The Tim Hortons location will begin serving its first doughnut and coffee from the downtown spot in late November. It will offer a full line of Hortons products including breakfast and lunch sandwiches, soup and fresh baked-goods.

"Tim Hortons is an attractive addition to our growing array of food services available to tenants in the building," said Steve Fitzmaurice, Seneca One Realty chief operating officer. "The franchise also has nostalgic ties to this area with Buffalo as its starting market in the 1970s as the company expanded its operations in the U.S."

Horton opened his first doughnut shop in Hamilton, Ont. in 1964 while he was still a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Horton played his final season and a half with the Buffalo Sabres until he died in a single-car, late night accident on the Queen Elizabeth Way in February 1974 while returning to Buffalo from Toronto.

The publicly-traded Tim Hortons was spun off from Wendy's International Inc. as of this past Sept. 29. Tim Hortons has 2,625 locations in Canada and 297 in the U.S. There are more than 50 stores in the Buffalo area.

"The people of New York state have really embraced the Tim Hortons concept, and we're pleased to soon offer another convenient location in the Buffalo area," said Chris Laganos, Tim Hortons senior vice president of U.S. operations. "We're particularly excited to have a location in the downtown core."

^ This news isn't nearly as important, unless you're like me and love Tim Hortons (I'm a Canadian, you Americans love your DUNKIN DONUTS). I thought I would put it here, since it really doesn't fit the MASSIVE TOWER proposal for Buffalo!

yea how come I lost over 300 posts to my rep? i think everyone lost a great deal of posts???

I wonder if its because they deleted the Buffalo Development news 6?

I dunno...SSC is great, but some technical issues are a bit crazy

Issa Tower - great proposal pics, looks good

The base of the tower would only be the same size as the base of the HSBC Center tower...so yea this tower looks a little too wide from lake Erie. lol

and yea...I lost about 300 posts myself...good, I dont wanna go over 10,000 then I would be one of those odd ball Indonesians guys who spats off to pics of Taipai 101.

No, I said former siting. They're now going in just over the county line, Niagara Falls Blvd - Erie Ave - Wurlitzer area.

Instead you'll get some other, less community-destroying suburban abomination. Assuming it is successfully rezoned.

It's gotta be a Walgreens. They have been buying up lots like crazy over the past year or so. Although, im pretty sure most of these large corporations have there own designers and so forth, so I can't imagine what role you would be playing if it was a large chain, or a Walgreens specificly.

I dunno. Like I said, it was originally to be a potential Sprawl-Mart until they chose the N-Ton site instead for whatever reasons, be them political, spatial, what have you. As evidenced by the still-current (yet outdated) concept plan having that crappy diagonal parking that only Sprawl-Mart seems to favor. It's basically going to house 350-370 thousand sq ft of retail with up to 5 outparcels. Maybe a Walgreens outparcel? I dunno how big those are, nor am I familiar with what is already in that area to be able to make any informed judgments. My job will just be to do the traffic analysis and probably some site drainage work. Engineering, not planning. Planning is only an interest of mine, not my job. (Nor a hobby, hobbies cost money lol)

Actually, this is hardly big news, I just brought it up when bjfan mentioned the N-Ton Sprawl-Mart. This is just one of your typical cookie cutter strip malls, nothing to get all up in arms about. Probably small by NFB standards.

We just had a tower nearly 100' taller than anything else this city has ever seen, built or unbuilt, and we're talking about Wal-Mart! :crazy:

I think it is going to look good in Buffalo. Buffalo has some of the best architecture in the county IMO

sargeant, I didn't mean to bring up that wal-mart, I just wanted to see if anyone would catch my post and then scream at me for talking about wal-mart when there was just a 600+ footer unveiled.

But since we're on the topic of the NT Wal-Mart...they are considering extending Meadow Drive to Erie Avenue to relieve traffic in that area. I'm working on the traffic study for that Wal-Mart, it will be built on the lot southwest of Wurlitzer on top of the road that is currently named "Bluebird Drive"...185,000 Gross SF store.

@ downtown Tim Horton's topic...this actually would be huge huge news (no joke) if it were going into a storefront on the 500 block of Main Street. The fact that its in the HSBC Tower makes it pretty much useless to anyone outside of that tower. It would be fantastic if it were located about where that old Burger King used to exist, and be the first 24 hour anything downtown. Then I wouldn't have to get in my car at midnight and drive to Union Road & Galleria Drive to get a midnight snack.

That's awesome Buffalo, I hope this goes through, it would instantly change the skyline and people's attitude towards Buffalo. I honestly hope it doesn't smother the other buildings around it though. Fort Erie side is gonna have one hell of a view in 2010. Now if you guy's could ever get a stadium downtown for the Bills and the Superbowl, then your in a whole new ballgame! "pardon the pun"

yea a dome...a dome downtown would be cool.

but the Bills suck and I dont wanna talk about them.

Any 24hr restaurant downtown would do good...perhaps a cheaper place...but it would give some life downtown even for the night owls (and chippewa drunks)

bjfan...any good sights out your window lately of the "alternative" club? lol

We need a Waffle House downtown.

OH FUCK YEA!!!

100% YES

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

http://img274.imageshack.us/img274/103/01jh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I love how Cannon Design used WZ1's photo WITHOUT a credit.

http://www.pbase.com/mattshaver/image/53131211

I'll have to bring this to his attention. :|

WOW! Damn! Good catch!!!!!!!!! :shocked:

I mean good for Matt for taking a photo worth this magnitude of use...but they should have contacted him...asked or something.

perhaps they did...and maybe he is on vacation with all the money they paid. :|

know what I like best about the Buffalo City Tower (BuffCity Tower) go figure...

Issa's guy from Hunt (aquired) is searching outside Buffalo for tenants to fill the tower...they dont wanna steal them from other buildings...which IMO is a nice way to enter town as an outsider. Perhaps with knowing this, Court Street tower might be good to go still...or as soon as Carl retires to a nursing home.

Hotel, Condos and offices...great stuff.

Cannon is located on Grand Island, wonder if they are gonna move to downtown as well?

Cannon is located on Grand Island, wonder if they are gonna move to downtown as well?

According to the News, Cannon intends to move into the building. It also said this is the tallest building they've designed. Surprising since they do quite a bit of work in Asia and the Middle East.

nice

you know the lot this is being built on is all uneven...next time you drive by look at it...the DHS/Customs building is higher, its lower than the Fed Reserve...with some old stone foundation in the back of the lot...odd.

I wonder if another parking ramp will go up now with all the construction in the Downtown - Delaware corridor?

This will have 800+ parking spots, but the spinoff could create a need for more than the Augsberger (sp) and Niagara Center ramps can provide.

We need a Waffle House downtown.
Maybe you should do a rendering. Fort Erie angle with the classic block-lettered "Waffle House" sign stuck in somewhere.

I'd go there.

I love how Cannon Design used WZ1's photo WITHOUT a credit.
Notice they added the fake skyline reflection in the water? I was wondering why choppy water like that would still have a mirror reflection in it!

From the Cannon presentation:

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6026/issa100gs8.jpg

How come the left model shows the middle piece as tallest, while the other models show the end piece as tallest?

different alternatives maybe?

That brings up another question I initially thought of - how is this thing intended to be lit at night?

I always hate it when you hear something is going downtown, but in a large office tower, not in one of the historic store fronts in the downtown area.

This thread is three pages long in less than a day? You Buffalo forumers are like a bunch of old ladies at a bridge party. ;)

that is definitley WZ1's picture, look at the clouds they're exactly the same.
I hope they have an awesome light display for the new tower and also come up with a cool name, something like "Ninja Tower" or something that fits the style. Or Nakatomi Plaza Die Hard bitches!!!!!!!!!

This thread is three pages long in less than a day? You Buffalo forumers are like a bunch of old ladies at a bridge party. ;)

sorry, we're just excited. it's not very often something of this magnitude is proposed in b-lo, let alone by someone who ISN'T begging for hand outs. :D

I always hate it when you hear something is going downtown, but in a large office tower, not in one of the historic store fronts in the downtown area.

Are you talking about the new Tim Horton's in the HSBC tower?

http://img415.imageshack.us/img415/130/issatowerskylinebg5.jpg

I wish someone would post on one page, every rendering for Buffalo development that has been proposed. Or maybe there already is, and I haven't found it yet!

P.S ^NICE BOOKENDS^

The alternative skyline angle homestar posted shows how it balances the skyline nicely between HSBC and the new tower. I always felt the skyline had a lopsided look. that started at HSBC and ran "downhill" along main.

From what I have heard the building is actually going to be 593 feet tall.

^ I heard 618

The Cannon slideshow at elmwood I mean Buffalo rising has it pegged at 593' about 8 slides into the presentation.

As long as it's 589.00001' or higher, I'm appeased.

Me Too! Like many I'll believe it when I see it. But with all of these projects out there (City Tower, Casino, Bass Pro, Court Street, Erie Basin Condo, Delaware Condo's and Federal Court House) something has to actually get done. Even if only half are completed it will be a remarkable turnaround compared to the past 15 years or so of almost nothing.

Did anyone else hear that they are going to start building the $11 million outer harbor park early next year? AMherstman posted that in the old thread but i couldnt bring that post into this one. just wondering?

I wish someone would post on one page, every rendering for Buffalo development that has been proposed. Or maybe there already is, and I haven't found it yet!

P.S ^NICE BOOKENDS^

I think Steel and EastCoast / WestCoast have provided us with many of the renderings...perhaps others as well. All have been on the Buffalo developments thread(s) but to look through several thousand replys would make a person crazy

Interesting...The Snews reported that Cannon Design was one of the potential tenants of the Issa tower. They have 200 people out in the Grand Island wilderness. It would be a smart move for them. It will be a lot easier to recruit top level talent to a slick downtown high rise instead to the sill mansard roof thing the now have in a crappy suburb next to a highway.

Interesting...The Snews reported that Cannon Design was one of the potential tenants of the Issa tower. They have 200 people out in the Grand Island wilderness. It would be a smart move for them. It will be a lot easier to recruit top level talent to a slick downtown high rise instead to the sill mansard roof thing the now have in a crappy suburb next to a highway.


But having views of Fantasy Island is a big selling point!

:nocrook:

fun wow

This thread is three pages long in less than a day? You Buffalo forumers are like a bunch of old ladies at a bridge party. ;)

something other than a waffle house is being built in buffalo. that's unheard of!

btw, that building is awesome.

This thread is three pages long in less than a day? You Buffalo forumers are like a bunch of old ladies at a bridge party. ;)


Based on population one 40 story tower in Buffalo is equivalent to 8 40 story towers in Chicago.

If you extrapolate Buffalo's planned and under construction development by multiplying by 8 (Chicago metro approx 8x Buffalo metro) you would get

8 casinos
8 Bass Pros
8 40 story towers
8 20 story towers
8 10 story courthouses
8 Statler type buildings renovated
8 etc

The mayor says that there is approx $3B planned or underway which would be the equivalent of $24B in development in Chicago. I think Chicago probably has more than this gong on but that number is still sigificant. Now we just have to real them all in!

Are you talking about the new Tim Horton's in the HSBC tower?

Yeah, I was.

Based on population one 40 story tower in Buffalo is equivalent to 8 40 story towers in Chicago.

If you extrapolate Buffalo's planned and under construction development by multiplying by 8 (Chicago metro approx 8x Buffalo metro) you would get

8 casinos
8 Bass Pros
8 40 story towers
8 20 story towers
8 10 story courthouses
8 Statler type buildings renovated
8 etc

The mayor says that there is approx $3B planned or underway which would be the equivalent of $24B in development in Chicago. I think Chicago probably has more than this gong on but that number is still sigificant. Now we just have to real them all in!

Hate to be a post pooper but..
Honestly, I don't get this post at all. What does Chicago have to do with anything? Its totally erannious information. Why compare it to Chicago? This is just an overly complicated (and pointless way) of pointing out that Chicago is 8 times larger than Buffalo? I don't get it. It just doesn't make sense. We havnt had any new highrises in decades, I know Chicago has. And if im not mistaken, 0 x 8 = 0.

Chicago = Buffalo x 8 ???

this is math I don't know.

:|

Fuzzy math.

He has outdone himself in his superciliousness once again!

something other than a waffle house is being built in buffalo. that's unheard of!

btw, that building is awesome.


We don't have Waffle House! >( >( I wish!

We don't have Waffle House! >( >( I wish!

ok i'll admit, if i could have brought one of those piles of shit back with me from SC i would've. just to be authentic its sign would read "affl hou e", "waff hous" " fle house" or something to that affect.

wouldn't it be great if the dickies donuts sign at deleware and hertel just read "ickie nuts"?

Why the CITY of Buffalo will never revive - A Case Study #1


Critics go to court to air grievances on new Burchfield-Penney Center
By MARK SOMMER
News Staff Reporter
10/27/2006

A preservation organization has filed a lawsuit to stop Buffalo State College from going ahead with its new Burchfield-Penney Art Center.
The Campaign for Greater Buffalo charged in State Supreme Court on Thursday that the college failed to conduct a state environmental review for property that has been designated a National Historic Landmark.

"There was never an opportunity for the public to participate. The state environmental quality review process allows you to do that," said Paul McDonnell, board president of Campaign for Greater Buffalo.

"It resulted in a project that is inappropriate for the site, which includes the H.H. Richardson Complex, the Olmsted landscape and the Museum District."

Construction work for the $33 million museum began on the five-acre site Aug. 24. The most striking feature of the museum, which was designed by Gwathmey Siegel & Associates Architects, would be a curved, 35-foot-tall zinc-coated wall visible from Elmwood Avenue.

Buffalo State had earlier declared a full environmental review was not necessary, claiming no significant environmental resource would be harmed by its action.

Buffalo State spokeswoman Claire Jones said the college was unaware of the lawsuit but touted a new museum's potential benefits.

"The new museum will be a wonderful addition to the cultural and architectural heritage of Western New York and contribute to the economic renewal of the region. We are looking forward to its completion," Jones said.

The Elmwood Village Association, which has criticized the lack of public meetings over a new museum in the past, plans to file papers in court in support of the lawsuit.

"The main reason for our support of the lawsuit is the lack of an environmental impact study," said Daniel Sack, a board member of the organization and co-chairman of its design committee. "This is New York State law, it's not something we just made up. Buffalo State chose, in our opinion, not to abide by it."

He said the group had to file a Freedom of Information Act request to get design information from the college.

"The only public meeting was one we held after the design was determined," Sack said.

A secondary issue for the association, Sack said, was that the building did not open to Elmwood Avenue.

The Grant-Ferry Association also is supporting the petition. Its director, Robert Franke, said the group's concerns extend to the entire Richardson-Olmsted campus, and it fears a lack of public input at one end of the site could carry over to future decisions over its redevelopment.


e-mail: msommer@buffnews.com

Why the CITY of Buffalo will never revive - A Case Study #2




Critics speak out on Fulton Street sale


The proposed sale of a two-block section of Fulton Street for a downtown casino was overwhelmingly opposed Thursday by speakers at a public hearing in Buffalo City Hall.
Whether the city should accept $631,000 from Seneca Gaming Corp. for the street became almost secondary, after Council President David A. Franczyk invited those in the large crowd to weigh in on the project in general.

"You are free . . . and encouraged to speak to any aspect of the casino project," he said. In response, many of them aired myriad complaints, then concluded their remarks by urging the Council to vote "no."

Six of nine lawmakers would have to approve the street sale. A vote could occur as early as Tuesday.

More than 90 minutes into the hearing, the number of supporters could be counted on one hand.

Michael Powers, a Buffalo attorney, has been credited with brokering the deal between the city and Senecas for the $125 million casino.

"Whether you like it or not, the casino is going to be built there," Powers said. The sale of Fulton Street will determine whether an "A-plus" casino will be built or a "C-minus" casino, he said.

Fulton Street runs through the middle of the almost nine-acre Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino site. Including it would increase the casino's size and amenities, gaming corporation officials have said.

Besides the sale of Fulton Street, the agreement on which the Council must vote also includes the creation of 1,000 jobs and an investment by the Senecas of $5 million to $7 million for infrastructure improvements in the Cobblestone District.

"If we do not sell Fulton Street to the Senecas, there will be no agreement," Powers said. "There will be a casino but there will be no agreement that contains those assurances."

Mark Kirsch, business manager of Local 17, Operating Engineers, asked the Council to approve the sale.

"Why? Jobs," he said. "Good-paying construction jobs will be created."

Opponents Thursday included clergy and members of organized groups against gambling or the casino. If the construction of a casino is inevitable, many said they would rather see the smaller version built.

Steven H. Siegel, a professor at Niagara University's College of Hospitality and Tourism Management, said he wanted to "demolish" the economic claims made by the Senecas.

Citing data from the corporation's filings with the federal Securities and Exchange Commission, Siegel said that while the Senecas rake in millions and millions in gambling revenue, their two existing casinos gave away almost $54 million in food, beverage, lodging and retail sales during a nine-month period ending June 30.

"The hotels can't compete. The restaurants can't compete," Siegel said.

Robert Heffern, co-chairman of Citizens Against Casino Gambling in Erie County, said: "Let's tell the truth: This is not economic development."

"Any casino in Buffalo will cost more jobs than it will create. This has been studied up to the eyeballs," said Joel Rose, co-chairman of the same organization.

Jerome- I take it you were there to support the project? Oh....

Chicago = Buffalo x 8 ???

this is math I don't know.

:|


Why is my post so hard to understand? That Hydrogen guy was from Chicago so I was pointing out that based on relative scale one tower in Buffalo = eight in Chicago. Chicagho metro is approximately 8 tiumes the size of metro Buffalo.....Sheeeeeeesh ! ! ! ! ! ! :evil:

Jerome- I take it you were there to support the project? Oh....
If I was a resident of the City of Buffalo (heaven forbid) I would have been there. Buffalo must fix it's own problems and not rely on outside parties to come in and change things for them, be they from Niagara County or elsewhere. Buffalo needs to get over it's,"woe is me", "help me" welfare mentality and just do it, itself. And it needs to start by ending this lawsuit festered opposition to anything and everything new. If our ancestors had the same attitude as the current residents of the City of Buffalo it would never have become the great city it once was in the first place. It would have been another Rochester or worse.

The only thing the above 2 articles prove to me, is that all development projects must follow the laws of NYS. Seems like a no brainer, right?

If an environmental study is required by law, then perform the study!

If gambling is illegal, then deal with that controversy before trying to shove a sovereign casino down everyone's throats.

It has nothing to do with Buffalo's failure to "revive" as you put it. It has everything to do with questionable procedures to fast-track projects without first covering their bases.

That still does not explain the real and threatened lawsuits against the Elmwood Hotel, the Delaware Avenue condos, the Peace Bridge, the North Buffalo subdivision, and no doubt coming soon to a court near you the Issa Tower (look for that one to come courtesy of the Hyatt and the Adam's Mark). It's pathetic.

...And it needs to start by ending this lawsuit festered opposition to anything and everything new.

...and no doubt coming soon to a court near you the Issa Tower (look for that one to come courtesy of the Hyatt and the Adam's Mark). It's pathetic.
It is pathetic.

But I also get the impression you have never lived anywhere else. This stuff happens all over the place, all the time, and occasionally for reasons far more idiotic. There are many things around here that I wish people got as up in arms about.

Another case of "get used to it". In our lawsuit culture, if you don't get something you want, sue for it!

Watch the shit hit the fan if they try moving the Pens to Hamilton. And Toronto will do something to block too! Surely they wouldn't though, it's not Buffalo. Territorial infringement. Of course they'll sue. Whether or not it's right or they should have any grounds doesn't matter.

It is pathetic.

But I also get the impression you have never lived anywhere else. This stuff happens all over the place, all the time, and occasionally for reasons far more idiotic. There are many things around here that I wish people got as up in arms about.

Another case of "get used to it". In our lawsuit culture, if you don't get something you want, sue for it!

Phoenix 1991-1994 inclusive. Projects were proposed and most saw the light of day. Lawsuits are the norm in Buffalo, they are the exception in places where development is reality and not merely an academic discussion or pipedream.

Though some would argue that Phoenix would allow anything and everything to be built without question...

But the big question then, what drew you to move back away from such a development mecca (with a paucity of lawsuits to boot)?

They should put a Tim Hortons on top of this new building. Buffalo can then claim the highest donut shop in the world.

Sorry to disappoint. The Stratasphere Tower in Las Vegas has a Starbucks on top, 900ft. up.

Sorry to disappoint. The Stratasphere Tower in Las Vegas has a Starbucks on top, 900ft. up.

I never ever seen a doughnut in a starbucks...sorry

Jerome has a point. Compared to other places that I've lived, I've never seen anything quite like the legal climate in this city. It seems to be ingrained into the fabric of society here. Just a casual observation...

Though some would argue that Phoenix would allow anything and everything to be built without question...

But the big question then, what drew you to move back away from such a development mecca (with a paucity of lawsuits to boot)?

A love for the lushness of WNY and a promotion from the firm I was working for at the time. My life does not center around development it centers around my wife and kids. We are happy, wherever we happen to live because I have a great family and a decent well paying career.

My hope is that there is enough progress in this area that my kids will be able to find the jobs that they desire without having to move... unless of course they want to move. I hope that they also have the opportunity to stay should they choose to.

The way Buffalo can never get ANY sizable project off the drawing board cannot help but temper ones optimism for it's future.

Jerome has a point. Compared to other places that I've lived, I've never seen anything quite like the legal climate in this city. It seems to be ingrained into the fabric of society here. Just a casual observation...
Don't ever get into suburban Boston then. Sometimes I'd swear it was a rite of passage (on a personal level anyways).

I actually knew several people who got rich off lawsuits. One at work because her son tripped over a ladder or something at a store (probably without paying attention since they're usually clearly marked). (She eventually quit over some petty dispute and her HR file was marked "Do not rehire", which is quite an accomplishment for a NH state employee.)

Maybe we do take the cake on civic lawsuits, maybe not. I've seen more than a few doozies elsewhere though.

I also don't see why the casino is a case study either. That's going to be controversial just about anywhere, not to mention when it's foisted on an area with no local input.

Sorry to disappoint. The Stratasphere Tower in Las Vegas has a Starbucks on top, 900ft. up.

Rats. There go my hopes and dreams.
I've been to the top of the Stratosphere to the revolving restaurant. I saw a wicked looking mountain fire way in the distance as I had dinner. Outside of a helicopter and the Foundation Room, it's the best view in Vegas.

Phoenix 1991-1994 inclusive. Projects were proposed and most saw the light of day. Lawsuits are the norm in Buffalo, they are the exception in places where development is reality and not merely an academic discussion or pipedream.

Phoenix.....Now there is an urban model to follow

Jerome has a point. Compared to other places that I've lived, I've never seen anything quite like the legal climate in this city. It seems to be ingrained into the fabric of society here. Just a casual observation...

That's New York State for you. When I lived in Huntington Beach, it was amazing, they would announce a project, vote on it and pass it (barring some rediculously obvious objection), and construction would begin the very next day. No dicking around. The crap with the casino, bass pro, and the peace bridge makes me sick. Just do it already.

A wise man once said "Just build it. The new Peace Bridge still hasn't been built, just build it"...That great man is Eliot Spitzer.

That's New York State for you. When I lived in Huntington Beach, it was amazing, they would announce a project, vote on it and pass it (barring some rediculously obvious objection), and construction would begin the very next day. No dicking around. The crap with the casino, bass pro, and the peace bridge makes me sick. Just do it already.

A wise man once said "Just build it. The new Peace Bridge still hasn't been built, just build it"...That great man is Eliot Spitzer.

Sheesh- Doesn't sound like the CEQA process I've come to know. Any project going through a full environmental impact report is at least a year process. Larger projects- two or more years. Then, the developers get sued by the Sierra Club or another environmental group and they end up settling for millions or vow to preserve 'X' amount of acres elsewhere. It's the nature of development. Oh, we also have 'development agreements'- developer gets project OK, but agrees to fund X, Y and Z. (i.e. road improvements, new park, new school, etc.). If anything, developers in Buffalo have it EASY.

Yeah, but California is even nuttier than NY!

Sounds similar to what my ex-Californian colleague here is always talking about. And he just loooovees Ahhnohd too. Not. lol

The Bay Area is pretty crazy, as anyone knows, but things seem to get done out here. Sometimes there are struggles- like when Lucas built his studio in the Presdio, but generally things get approved and done pretty quickly

Yeah, but California is even nuttier than NY!

I guess I was referring more to the lawsuits aspect, and how its in our culture here in New York to have your lawyers lined up to destroy any project. And eventhough the Cali process may be longer (I don't remember that first hand), whenever someone in my area proposed a project they just went through the process like everyone else and eventually their project was built, no lawsuits, no protests unless it was something stupid like building a Wal-Mart on the beach or at the end of a pier.

fuck, in portland everything passes through rigid environmental review, zoning reviews, infinite public hearings, studies on how the building relates to existing structures, view corridor regulations, all sorts of height and dimensions restrictions, etc,etc. it's not just buffalo.
the one difference is that people are lined up out the door to build there so they can demand whatever they want. in buffalo this isn't the case.

As long as it's 589.00001' or higher, I'm appeased.Just as long as the tallest in NYS out side Gothem is where it belongs, and not Albany.:| Isn't that what you're saying sargantcm? I can live with that.

^^ Precisely.

Though as I mentioned before, Rochester, Syracuse, or even Heuvelton would be favorable to me, just not Albany, and just not filled with government offices.

^^ Precisely.

Though as I mentioned before, Rochester, Syracuse, or even Heuvelton would be favorable to me, just not Albany, and just not filled with government offices.Speaking of Rochester, they have been very quite for a while. Had sights set on becoming "2nd City" in every aspect for at least the last 5 or so years. Now, with all the positive news coming out of B-low these days, I expect the friendly compitition to heat up with announcment of a new tower of they're own (616 Ft:nuts: 0) within the next 24 months. Im sure they are still pulling for Buffalo though. No hate between these two.:cheers1: Just Albany!:bash:

Speaking of Rochester, they have been very quite for a while. Had sights set on becoming "2nd City" in every aspect for at least the last 5 or so years. :
That was before the bottom fell out of our population. Look at my link and you will see that we are over 275,000 behind Buffalo's Urban Area and with the rate we are losing jobs (number 1 net job loss in NY State in total numbers and percentages since 2001). I just don't see a move to catch up

, I expect the friendly compitition to heat up with announcment of a new tower of they're own (616 Ft:nuts: ) within the next 24 months.


What would we put into it? The midtown tower is about to be almost totally emptied this January when Chase pulls out. They are talking demolition around here not new skyscrapers. But we might get a new theatre downtown to duplicaate our old one. Emphasis on the dupe portion.

Wow, Halo, you walked right into that one! :D

Could've warned you I suppose, but I must not have been thinking straight at the time.

I've been having some discussions with some of the British forumers...they don't speak too highly of Bashar Issa/BSC Group and their ability to get proposed projects started or completed. Before we start thinking of an arms race of scrapers in Buffalo or some competition with Roch we gotta watch closely and make sure we get this BSC Tower built first.

From BuffaloRising:

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/10/signs_of_life_our_new_inn.php


http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/upload/2006/10/Naval-South-Elevation-2.jpg

hey thats pretty cool.

I like how the fake people are dressed up.

I've been having some discussions with some of the British forumers...they don't speak too highly of Bashar Issa/BSC Group and their ability to get proposed projects started or completed. Before we start thinking of an arms race of scrapers in Buffalo or some competition with Roch we gotta watch closely and make sure we get this BSC Tower built first.

From what I read on the Manchester thread, I think it is safe to put the Issa tower in the pipedream category along with the Adelphia Tower. Oh well it was a fun dream while it lasted. Actually that one actually had a better chance of happening, and would have been built had it not been stalled by Councilman Pitts. of course it might have been empty now, but it would have been there waiting for new tenants.

i've read some not-so-nice stuff about issa as well.
to be fair, when compared to alot of buffalo developers, his track record is still gold.
i mean how many thing has paladino proposed over the years that never got as far renderings.
hell, uniland has been sitting on a giant dirt mound in the city for years.

atleast a few of issa's manchester projects have been built. from what i have read the sarah tower is coming along nicely, and even if they never get any further than the giant hole they've dug for canopus/greengate it will still be farther than the court st. tower or the condo tower at waterfront village will ever make it.

That's what I thought but apparently the Sarah Tower has been nothing more than a hole in the ground for over a year. The Manchester forum has pics of it. It looks very much like the AuquaFalls project in Niagara Falls NY before the hole was filled in. It disturbs me that his portfolio is listed at a value of 3-400 million and yet he is proposing a $360 million tower for Buffalo. The numbers just does not seem to add up. I'm starting to get very bad vibes about this guy. Hope I am wrong, but nothing is pointing in that direction. His web site has not even been updated for over 2 years.

If the tower does get built, it will be through the efforts of George Hamberger at Realty USA and not Issa. And to think I knew him when he was only a DJ at the old WKBW.

maybe Issa is getting nowhere in the UK and is making his US move and starting with Buffalo?

I don't think we should get negitive about him so quick because the UK forumers are having issues seeing their BSC structure filling.

It will be interesting to see if they can get to the 40% mark and we'll actually see the ground break, If Issa gives them the resources they need to lure tenants at a national level (which hasn't really been done in Buffalo in a while) then I'm confident the tower will rise.

According to data released this month by the FW Dodge division of McGraw Hill, 2006 appears to be a good year for upstate New York construction activity

2 County Buffalo area – September 2006 total new contracts $143.1 million up from $81 million in 2005. YTD total new contract $1.04 BILLION up from $718 million in 2005. For the month Commercial activity was up 64% and Residential activity was UP 64%. YTD total activity is up 45%.

5 County Rochester area – September 2006 total new contracts $139.2 million up from $89.4 million in 2005. YTD total new contract $894 million up from $712.4 million in 2005. For the month Commercial activity was up 200% and Residential activity was DOWN 28%. YTD total activity is up 25%

I read thru the Manchester thread discussion and it's very sobering. But that's good to know now so we don't get too bent out of shape if it falls thru.

One thing to keep in mind tho that might help buffalo: Issa is using buffalo as his entry point into the US market. I would think that he would want to make sure the project doesn't give him a bad reputation here. (as he already seems to have in the UK)

Maybe he's using Buffalo because if his projects fall apart, everyone would just assume that Buffalo's inept leadership or sluggish economy killed them.

If Issa gives them the resources they need to lure tenants at a national level (which hasn't really been done in Buffalo in a while) then I'm confident the tower will rise.
I do not know Issa other than what I have read about him. But I am curious as to why the Buffalo forummers seem to think that this 28 year old condo developer would have a lot of connections in NYC and Toronto among the type of commercial tenants he would need to fill a tower in Buffalo? Has he ever done a project in Toronto? Has he ever completed a project in NYC, or anywhere else in North America? I just do not get the assumption that he has all these contacts in North America to fill this building. There does not seem to be a basis for this optimism.

who knows...maybe he found out that Cheektowaga had height restrictions? :)

That's what I thought but apparently the Sarah Tower has been nothing more than a hole in the ground for over a year. The Manchester forum has pics of it. It looks very much like the AuquaFalls project in Niagara Falls NY before the hole was filled in. It disturbs me that his portfolio is listed at a value of 3-400 million and yet he is proposing a $360 million tower for Buffalo. The numbers just does not seem to add up. I'm starting to get very bad vibes about this guy. Hope I am wrong, but nothing is pointing in that direction. His web site has not even been updated for over 2 years.

If the tower does get built, it will be through the efforts of George Hamberger at Realty USA and not Issa. And to think I knew him when he was only a DJ at the old WKBW.


i just checked out the machester forums. some of the photos are unnerving. certainly doesn't sound too bright for this. i'm not gonna jump on the naysayers wagon just yet.

a note on the values reported on his website. the values are in british pound, which are right now almost twice the value of the dollar.
so if those values are correct its 6-800 million dollars.

http://www.bsc-group.net/

I do not know Issa other than what I have read about him. But I am curious as to why the Buffalo forummers seem to think that this 28 year old condo developer would have a lot of connections in NYC and Toronto among the type of commercial tenants he would need to fill a tower in Buffalo? Has he ever done a project in Toronto? Has he ever completed a project in NYC, or anywhere else in North America? I just do not get the assumption that he has all these contacts in North America to fill this building. There does not seem to be a basis for this optimism.

I seem to remember on the old thread, someone mentioned he did have a tower in NYC, but it was only a 20 storey. Not sure About Toronto, but that city is very international and i wouldn't be surprised if he did have some connections there.
As for if this tower gets built: Issa always compared Manchester to Buffalo. It seems like Manchester is all empty promises. He could have been "run out of town" and tried a new market that is fresh. It really wouldn't make sense if this guy keeps on proposing building after building and there is never anything to show for it.He wouldn't be taken seriously. Keep in mind we are comparing him to the only developers we know and what Manchester says. Only time will tell i guess.

I'll believe it's going to happen when I start seeing steel rise.

I'll believe it's fallen through when I hear it's fallen through.

Did the article actually say Issa himself had contacts throughout the US? I thought the Realty USA office seemed to be the one largely going after that but maybe I read it wrong.

Obviously the Statler will be no barometer for us since it's already standing. Granted it needs some fixing up on the exterior, but in general there's no way you can tell how things are progressing without actually hearing something or breaking in. Not like a tower where it's right out there in the open.

Issa's offices are twenty percent pre-leased. He's off to a great start. The only portion of the project that concerns me are the residential units- he's looking to get $500,000 for 900 sq.ft. The view will be priceless, but that is a tad high for the Buffalo market.

What are the circumstances behind the delay in the Manchester project(s)? It isn't clear when you browse the threads- one seemed to be announced and then rejected by the city due to its height and design. Another (Sarah?) started work and has been dragging out. Is it financing? Unexpected soil conditions? Market tanking? Material delays? Contractor issues?

Don't stick the fork in it just yet.

But the 100,000 is not a real outside party it is just Cannon Design. They have nothing to lose by a tentative commitment to a building they designed. Obviously if it is a go they will make enough in fees to cover their rental commitment.

Thats great if that 20% is accurate, are you sure or guessing?

Total Square footage 1,300,000
Sq footage by Cannon 100,000
Equals 7.69% of the 40% needed to trigger construction, but it does represent 16.67% of the 600,000 feet of office space.

Too bad they couldn't get M&T to move their top executives there, and fill M&T Plaza with their Wehrle Drive employees. The new building would be real close to their new Delaware Avenue digs.

PoliticsNY.Net: The Buffalo Common Council, Tuesday, passed the agreement, negotiated by the Brown Addministration, to sell Fulton Street to the Seneca Nation. Pending Control Board approval, the Seneca plan for a $125M casino will go forward. Not only will the casino project go forward but so will Bass Pro. All eyes were on the Buffalo Common Council today; Franczak, Bonafacio, Russell, Fontana & Thompson sent a clear & unequivocal message, Buffalo, NY is open for business!

Sources: "Steve Pigeon, representing Tom Golisano, called both Councilmen Fontana & Bonifacio & threatened to spend a lot of Golisano's $$$ against them in next year's election if they voted for the pact. So far Golisano is 0 & 3 for Governor ... 0 & 1 for Parenti ... 0 & 1 in his attempts to stop the Seneca Casino."

Issa's offices are twenty percent pre-leased. He's off to a great start. The only portion of the project that concerns me are the residential units- he's looking to get $500,000 for 900 sq.ft. The view will be priceless, but that is a tad high for the Buffalo market...

Don't stick the fork in it just yet.
I agree with the condos. But just the same, you don't really know, since we don't really have anything like it already. I suppose it could just as well be the easiest part. As for the fork, I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude like I do with anything else. Even without it, we're still looking up and that's good. Something that wasn't the case with Adelphia.

PoliticsNY.Net: The Buffalo Common Council, Tuesday, passed the agreement, negotiated by the Brown Addministration, to sell Fulton Street to the Seneca Nation. Pending Control Board approval, the Seneca plan for a $125M casino will go forward. Not only will the casino project go forward but so will Bass Pro. All eyes were on the Buffalo Common Council today; Franczak, Bonafacio, Russell, Fontana & Thompson sent a clear & unequivocal message, Buffalo, NY is open for business!

Sources: "Steve Pigeon, representing Tom Golisano, called both Councilmen Fontana & Bonifacio & threatened to spend a lot of Golisano's $$$ against them in next year's election if they voted for the pact. So far Golisano is 0 & 3 for Governor ... 0 & 1 for Parenti ... 0 & 1 in his attempts to stop the Seneca Casino."
Ehhh, he's won the ones that matter. He's too good for politics, he's much better at running a successful business[es] and philanthropy; two things which are more important anyways, especially here.

I believe the casino, if nothing else Albany will provide push for that one to help feed their crack addiction - they're pretty good at getting things done when it serves their interests. But Bass Pro? HAHAHAHAHA!:hilarious :rofl:

I say bank and invest the money to keep up with inflation, and wait until 2009. If Issa comes true, spend it on something much more worthwhile to augment the tower/attract more tenants/drum up interest and speculation. If it is a pipe dream, fine, build Bass Pro. Like it would be around by 2009 anyways.

Or how about just build that Webster Block/Quincy Market-type thing they also want instead? Seems that would attract a larger base. Personally speaking, I'll never set foot in Bass Pro (regardless of whether it's ever built), but the other alternatives certainly at least pique my interest.

Speaking of Bass Pro/the Aud, I noticed coming in the morning that there's a missing wall panel near the roof, in the corner closest to the Skyway. I don't remember seeing it previously, so I don't think it was storm damage, besides which there was nothing to hit it, and that building has doubtlessly been through worse. I wonder what that's all about.

Total Square footage 1,300,000
Sq footage by Cannon 100,000
Equals 7.69% of the 40% needed to trigger construction, but it does represent 16.67% of the 600,000 feet of office space.

Too bad they couldn't get M&T to move their top executives there, and fill M&T Plaza with their Wehrle Drive employees. The new building would be real close to their new Delaware Avenue digs.

Jerome you're such a downer.
It is 500,000 sq.ft. of office space- get your facts straight. Cannon is taking 100k, do the math. It is 1.3 million gross sq. ft. of space, that includes parking, mechanicals, lobbies, pools, etc. Get with it.

Jerome you're such a downer.
It is 500,000 sq.ft. of office space- get your facts straight. Cannon is taking 100k, do the math. It is 1.3 million gross sq. ft. of space, that includes parking, mechanicals, lobbies, pools, etc. Get with it.

Do your research. Show me where he ever said construction would start when 40% of the office space was leased. He clearly stated it would not start until 40% of the total building is leased.

If the building is going to be the largest in SQ ft in Buffalo then it had better be close to 1.3 million because the HSBC is over 1.1 million sq ft itself.

Research complete:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/2258/issalf3.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3039/05sw6.jpg

OK- start subtracting common areas, parking ramps, lobbies, etc. to see how much of the 1.3 million sq.ft. is leasable. Point is, he's on his way to the 40 percent mark.

From BuffaloRising:

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/10/signs_of_life_our_new_inn.php


http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/upload/2006/10/Naval-South-Elevation-2.jpg

its a nice project and i'm glad to see it finally being built... that masterplan and design for the harbor have been around since way back in the day...

i was lucky enough to see alot of the design come together

shveet

that masterplan and design for the harbor have been around since way back in the day...
If the 1920's attire of the people in the rendering is any indication...which is funny because the N&SMs park didn't exist back then, nor were the ships even in existance!

Sorry, had to stick that in as was mentioned before. It'll be nice to actually have a focal point on the harbor as well as something to actually anchor (unintended pun) the naval park.

Kind of like what they've done with Lock #3 at the Welland Canal. Though I sort of miss that place being just a grass field for picnicking, when you could literally walk right up to the ships as they passed through the lock...Ahh, those were the days...

the condos...well the Sabres and Bills players might go this way...plus maybe if they get more office takers than condo takers they will expand the office part of the tower...who knows.

with Cannon going there, perhaps another big name will push the number well over 40%, perhaps some kind of a financial firm of some sort.

If Issa wants to land a hotel there...it might make sense to get that signed before some of the office tenants...for they might center around that for "reasons".

I dunno...either way, this is still early. :)

Just out of curosity
what's going on with the New Peace Bridge ? & the Ambassidor Bridge
Is their final drawings, plans, is their construction dates ? or timetable etc. I haven't heard nothing in a long time.

Also what's going on with the new hotel at Elmwood and Forest ?

Yeah, the condos are a bit perplexing. I can see those either being a tough sell, or almost snatched up immediately. I don't know. Like a wild card.

Theoretically, if you get half the office space and a hotel, you're already at ~50%, rendering the condos essentially moot.

I seriously don't think the issue with this building is filling it. The problem, as I see it, is Issa's perceived (for lack of a better word) track record in Manchester. But relatively, considering the jokers we have for developers (with a few exceptions), is he as bad; is he any worse than what we already are accustomed to?

In college I roomed with a guy from Manchester (orginally, his family had moved to Lexington, MA). $$$$$$$. I ought to track him down, see if he ever heard of him.

The jury's out on him. But keep in mind he's only owned the Statler since August, and he's hired a team of consultants to prepare construction plans. Some Statler plans have already been filed with the City. So cut him some slack. If we see 'BSC Construction' show up at the parking lot with picks and shovels, sound the alarm. :D

actions speak louder than words...in the case of developing downtown Buffalo, this should be more than a rule of thumb.

I have seen the BSC site...and for a company that has a guy of only 28 or 26 years old ahead of it...I will give it some time. Issa might have money, but he also has vision in his projects. I think his Buffalo project may be more iconic to his portfolio than iconic in effects on Buffalo itself.

I think filling a 500,000 sq ft. office building is very attainable. I'm more concerned on the hotel as it seems a few are in the works now. I agree with sargeantcm, the condos are either going to get snapped up or sit. I think there are more wealthier people in the area than people think and the idea of living up high in a luxury condo is enticing. Especially to the empty nesters that have been in the suburbs for 20-25 years. Those people have the money to buy. I'm more optimistic about this project. If anything, I see him increasing the office sapce and decreasing the condos.

^ I agree, and I like your optimism! I think we should lay off of the skepticism based on the experiences in Manchester, we don't know the reasons why the projects are stalled there...for all we know it they could have nothing to do with Issa and more to do about the approval and construction processes on the city-side over there.

No, we don't know. My guess would be that regulatory-wise, England would be a bit tougher to get something built than in the US. But that's just my impression. Also to be considered is this is New York, don't let all those skyscrapers in the City fool you; it's definitely harder to get something off the ground here than in much of the rest of the US.

Maybe it is all his fault, and that's why he's come over here in the first place, to start clean and make a name for himself stateside. Who knows.

I'm sure he didn't decide to try this project if he thought he'd look silly and get egg on his face. This is such a complicated deal that who knows what will happen. I know this is the perfect project for Buffalo. I've said the future skyline will include many mix use buildings. I didn't think the first would be planned for this big.

I sure hope Buffalo gets this tall tower. :) :Yes:
It looks great and would be a great addition to the city and it's skyline. :yes:

:)
Way to go, Buffalo! :)

the feeling is mutual...we hope Baltimore gets all its talls as well...

but...

when M&T builds its signature tower...that will be ours :)

I'm suprised that M&T doesn't jump on the opportunity to get into this new tower. :yes:

^ ya never know, its too early to tell...I'd actually be surprised they have two towers downtown already.

Speaking of buildings (to be) largely occupied by M&T, the Uniland Delaware site may have topped off on the south end (5 stories?).

Eat that, union assholes. The same guys that when everyone was running around trying to achieve normalcy after the storm, they were still standing around in protest.

I think this would be ideal for one of the upstart banks in the area to get in there and grab the naming rights to the tower. It would be an in your face to HSBC and M & T to have nicer offices in the tallest tower with the logo at the top. Greater Buffalo Savings Bank would be a candidate.

Yeah, I'd say GBSB as well. Maybe First Niagara as well, but they still seem a little more invested in Niagara County, plus they just built a new HQ anyways. Though I thought I read they were looking at expanding their presence in Buffalo.

I'd like to see Evans National or someone like that. Boom, out of nowhere.

^^^^
I was thinking more along the lines of Afinogenov Tower:lol:

What about citizens bank. They're starting to come into our market.

If I were Realty USA, I'd be making calls to all those banks. Not only that, but you get the revenue from the naming rights. Amove liek that would take a big chunk of space up. That alone would set this thing in motion. There would be a lot of prestige involved with soemthign like this. Smaller banks have to be frugal, though, and the bottom line may not allow for it.

They're not "upstart" though, which I think is the point. They're in the same league as HSBC and M&T, not to mention Key and BoA which have buildings named after them.

Too bad we still didn't have Citibank. They'd be prime (though certainly not upstart).

"US Postal Workers Federal Credit Union Tower"

What do you mean by up start. citizens bank has buildings name all ready. Theres a stadium in Philly named Citizens bank park or something.

But why does it need to be a bank?

I kid of perfer the Issa name, or something similar. It makes more of a statement that this is Buffalo's iconic tower, rather than a bank or businesses iconic tower. Just a thought from a long time Buffalo fan...

^^^^
Exactly! Lets hope that the name is something about Buffalo or from Buffalo's History. Even though a foreigner is building the Tower, i doubt that it will be named after Buffalo. Still, they would make money from nameing rights. But i dont think Issa is about that.

i think we have a better chance for the Gate circle tower being named after Buffalo or equivalent.I think its cheesy having a beautiful tower and then have a stupid name, like" North Americare park" etc. The ESB has the best because its got a powerful name. Would that have been the same if it were called "Place to park your Zeppelin building"? i dont think so Tim

Call it the Spitzer Tower

Still, they would make money from nameing rights. But i dont think Issa is about that.
Flash him a suitcase with 5 million bucks in it and Issa will be "about that"

I walked by this lot last night...to think there will possibly be a 600+ foot tall tower there is amazing.

^I'll have to check the site out when I'm back there for the holidays. I was impressed when I was back a month ago with the size of the HealthNow HQ. The photos didn't relay the bulk and mass of that building. When I took the off ramp to get over to Delaware, it looked enormo.

Did anyone else hear that Main St in Williamsville is gonna attempt to make a "Niagara on the Lake" style village. That area is minutes away from the University District. It seems like a good idea.

That would be awsome.

FOCUS: WILLIAMSVILLE
Williamsville sees future in its past


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wants Main Street to be three lanes to reduce traffic

By NIKI CERVANTES
News Staff Reporter
11/2/2006

Click to view larger picture

Harry Scull Jr./Buffalo News
Williamsville officials say reducing Main Street to three lanes will curb traffic and make the village "the next Niagara-on-the-Lake."




When the Village of Williamsville looks to the future, it sees the past, circa 1950 or so.
Downtown Main Street was three lanes of calm then. Locals walked to the shops or maybe took the family sedan out for a spin downtown.

It's a heart-warming memory village officials intend to re-create by narrowing Main Street from its now congested five lanes back to three. If you are one of the 50,000 or so commuters who crawl along Main Street most workdays, that idea might seem like a bad joke.

But Williamsville officials are serious about taking the village back from the traffic.

"Our first concern is our residents," Williamsville Mayor Mary Lowther said. "They aren't just passing through. They live here. They should be able to walk the streets."

State transportation authorities are listening. But after spending an estimated $8 million just a decade ago to add lanes, they seem to have mixed emotions while awaiting a final proposal from village leaders.

In a way, Williamsville is following a well-traveled road.

Hertel Avenue in North Buffalo was recently re-created, going from five lanes to three. The reconstruction helped slow down traffic and turn Hertel into a local hot spot. Other villages, such as Lancaster, have successfully undergone revitalization projects meant to bring back the days when people, not cars, ruled.

However, Williamsville's Main Street has turned into a commuter path more on par with Transit Road than an old-fashioned village.

Village officials, elected on the promise of doing something about the traffic, are also talking about beautification, like hanging baskets, landscaped islands as formal entryways and safer, more attractive crosswalks. The changes would apply to the portion of Main from Union Road to near Evans Street.

Officials envision Williamsville as a "destination point." Their plans involve restoring the historic, but shuttered, water mill, possibly into restaurants and maybe a bed-and-breakfast. Visitors could stroll or bike along Main Street, enjoying the eclectic mix of boutiques and small shops already there.

"We can easily become the next Niagara-on-the-Lake," said Brian J. Geary, a Village Board member.

Merchants agree.

"People don't even know what's here," said Maggie Schwartz, who owns Pumpkins on Main Street, a children's clothing store. "They don't know what an incredible place this is."

Key to realizing that dream is slowing the traffic enough for pedestrians to feel safe and for merchants to get more business from all those commuters either too crazed by gridlock or in too much of a hurry to stop and shop.

A citizens committee is studying the issue as part of a proposal to develop a new community plan, with the help of a consulting firm. Lowther said she expects preliminary findings in a few months, although completing a plan is likely to take years. And making major changes will be difficult - for everyone.





Opposition aired

Nancy Hocter drives Main Street every workday from her Cheektowaga home to one of the many medical complexes - along with office parks and high-density housing - that have popped up on Main Street.

Traffic was bad before then, due to decades of practically nonstop development in Amherst and Clarence and a pattern of Thruway drivers using Main Street to avoid the congested Williamsville toll barrier.

But driving Main Street is worse than ever now, especially at rush hour.

Today, a one-mile stretch that includes the village gets 50,900 cars a day. Maximum capacity is 36,900 vehicles. No wonder it takes Hocter 40 minutes some days to get home.

And now someone wants to eliminate two lanes?

"It would make things 100 times worse," Hocter said. "At 4 o'clock, it's already bumper to bumper. I don't know what I would do."

Village officials say it won't be that bad. Geary notes that Wehrle Drive - which runs parallel to Main - will be able to absorb a large portion of Main Street traffic after a planned expansion.

The Wehrle project would widen the two-lane road to three lanes in some parts and then to seven just west of Transit Road. Most of the work starts in 2007.

Another way would be to widen two-lane Youngs Road, making it easier for commuters to reach alternative streets such as Sheridan Drive and Maple Road, he said.





No easy solutions

Moving the Williamsville Toll Barrier, favored by the state Department of Transportation, would help - although it is difficult to say how much.

A study by the DOT found removing the toll barrier would reduce Main Street traffic by a "modest" 5 percent.

Another transportation agency theorizes that reducing lanes on Main would cause drivers to do what they already do, only more so: flee to once-quiet side streets, clogging them.

For instance, Garrison Road, two shady lanes lined with old village homes, would see traffic increase 26 percent, to 10,700 vehicles a day, said Hal Morse, executive director of the Greater Buffalo-Niagara Regional Transportation Council, which studied the issue for the village.

Volume on Wehrle would increase by 10 percent on the village stretch.

Sheridan, a nearby five-laner that is not over capacity and mostly populated by businesses, would see traffic increase the least, by about 9 percent.

"A lot of people don't want to have to travel that far north" to avoid Main, Morse said.

Even with commuters fleeing to side streets, the council's estimates show, Main would still be over capacity. There is just that much traffic, Morse said.

"There are no easy solutions for Williamsville," he said.





Finding a balance

State Sen. Mary Lou Rath, R-Williamsville, recently entered the fray, requesting the DOT to study how to alleviate the pain of Main Street.

The DOT, meanwhile, is taking a wait-and-see stance. During the mid-1990s, Main Street was widened to five lanes to help move traffic more efficiently. Now, state officials acknowledge something has to give.

The idea of reducing lanes is to calm traffic, but whether that will work in this case is questionable, said Gary Gottlieb, in charge of regional planning and programming for the DOT.

Three-lane roads have a capacity of 20,650 vehicles a day, about half the maximum of Main Street. "That would have some pretty severe impacts," Gottlieb said. Is it worth it, he asked, so someone can go to the "local cafe, maybe sit outside and have a couple of coffees?"

Then again, Williamsville needs to be more pedestrian-friendly, he said. "It's balance," he said. "Somehow, we have to find it."

Duh, thats where i saw it... ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NEWS BONEHEAD!!!

Did anyone else hear that Main St in Williamsville is gonna attempt to make a "Niagara on the Lake" style village. That area is minutes away from the University District. It seems like a good idea.
Yes, they want to narrow Main St for traffic calming. They wanted to do that to a road in Concord, NH too (4 lanes to 2 lanes plus TWLTL) which I haven't kept up on. It's a simliar sort of roadway too, just in a poorly planned orgy of sprawl instead. I think both would probably work, though.

I wonder what all the obnoxious "NOTL is the best place on earth" forumers would think of that vision. :|

Guess there are no Biz First readers here.
First Amherst is moving forward with plans for a residential complex on the 700 block of Main- they'll tear down the Vernor and build a mix of 100 condos and apartments. Would start work next year.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/2199/dsc0103mv4.jpg

cool

Guess there are no Biz First readers here.
First Amherst is moving forward with plans for a residential complex on the 700 block of Main- they'll tear down the Vernor and build a mix of 100 condos and apartments. Would start work next year.

I read biz first, but I don't see that article anywhere on their site. Got a link? or is it only in the print edition?

Is that the abandoned building on the 700 block accross from Sidway next to that empty grassy field? If that's the building, then that block will look great in a few years with redevelopment. Are they going to incorporate that grassy field next door into this project?

I read biz first, but I don't see that article anywhere on their site. Got a link? or is it only in the print edition?

Is that the abandoned building on the 700 block accross from Sidway next to that empty grassy field? If that's the building, then that block will look great in a few years with redevelopment. Are they going to incorporate that grassy field next door into this project?

It was in the edition that came out yesterday. Yes, it is the building across from Sidway and they're using the whole two acres (vacant lot along Pearl/Edward). Clover was looking at putting in 24 condos next to Ansonia where the Schmidt Bldg. used to be, but that project appears dead.

isnt that by St. Louis Church?

hows that building on the water front coming along?

Clover was looking at putting in 24 condos next to Ansonia where the Schmidt Bldg. used to be, but that project appears dead.
I was wondering what was going on with the Clover project. Well, good to hear someone else has stepped in for that site.

BTW - wasn't there condo rumors at one time about the vacant site at the corner of Main/Goodel/Pearl ? I'm assuming that is dead too. That site seems like Prime real estate but it just sits there unused...

I was wondering what was going on with the Clover project. Well, good to hear someone else has stepped in for that site.

BTW - wasn't there condo rumors at one time about the vacant site at the corner of Main/Goodel/Pearl ? I'm assuming that is dead too. That site seems like Prime real estate but it just sits there unused...

First Amherst is using the Vernor/corner site:

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1096/mainsx4.jpg

The Schmidt site is still looking for a new owner.

not my FREE parking spot...wtf.

First Amherst is using the Vernor/corner site:

The Schmidt site is still looking for a new owner.

Oh Cool. I was getting that lot mixed up with the Schmidt lot. I'm more psyched about it now. :)

Ok, so it looks like its up to me to breathe some life back into this thread!

Here's a rough synopsis of the latest project I have been working on for Black Rock and Riverside:

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/11/black_rock_canal_park.php

Any thoughts??

Is this proposed or in the works? Ive heard and seen these plans before. Still im kinda confused about it. It is a park and boat launch site, or soemthing else.

either way it looks nice and should really help out that surrounding area. that is key waterfront property and should be developed.

Is this proposed or in the works? Ive heard and seen these plans before. Still im kinda confused about it. It is a park and boat launch site, or soemthing else.

either way it looks nice and should really help out that surrounding area. that is key waterfront property and should be developed.

This is proposed. We are shopping it around to the politicos right now so that we can get them to fund a feasibility study. Once we get the feasibility study, and that says its doable, then we can get the funding to build it. Right now there is the Ontario Street Boat Launch and just south of that is Cornelius Creek Park, which is separated from the Boat Launch by Cornelius Creek (which is just a Buffalo Sewer System outflow!). The idea is to deck over the mouth of Cornelius Creek to make one large continuous park from the two parcels of land. By doing that more space is freed up so we can reconfigure the boat trailer parking area so that more greenspace can be added along the riverfront as well as re-route the Riverwalk along the waters edge in comparison to right now where the parking lot goes right to the waters edge. Another feature is we are planning for a concrete deck to be built over the river from just north of the launch to the roundabout where an acre of additional parkland would be added giving more space to relax and fish, or watch the sunset right on the waterfront. The design of this deck would allow for a boardwalk where transient boats could tie-up and in turn create more users of the park. Also, the deck would create a new fish habitat, improving the fishing in this part of the river. Many of these ideas came from a retired Army Corps of Engineers engineer, so they are doable, and follow the building guidelines set forth by the Army Corps.

Ballpark, how much $$$ are we talking for the whole plan?

Ok, so it looks like its up to me to breathe some life back into this thread!

Here's a rough synopsis of the latest project I have been working on for Black Rock and Riverside:

Any thoughts??

Stip, best wishes on your project. Black Rock & Riverside were rather cutoff when the Niagara Thruway was constructed in the 1950s, & your project would certainly help reconnect these neighborhoods to the Niagara River.

Ballpark, how much $$$ are we talking for the whole plan?

The whole plan, I would have to figure about $10 -$15 million. But I don't really know. That's why we are shopping it around for the feasibility study. THere are still a ton of questions as to if the deck ove rthe River will work and how expensive that will be itself. But, if the feasibility study goes forward, and it comes up working, then we got Higgins for the waterfront $$ from the NYPA that the Greenway Commission is overseeing. We are just trying to get our project further along then the rest on the Commisions list so we can get our project done.

The money Highins got from the Power Authority is perfect for this kind of project.

Anyone hear of any news on the following:

Issa Tower
Statler tower
Casino
inner/outer Waterfront
Court house tower
apartments/condos/lofts renovations
Buff. st building
Old Am&As buidling
Cars on main st
Gate circle tower
etc.

There has to be something we can talk about!?

I think the Courthouse Tower has a great chance of getting it's funding. Higgins is confident the courthouse will be authorized in the next Congress which meets in two months.
I think Issa has started work on the elevators in the Statler.
The full casino is moving forward now that the Senecas got the rights to the street.
That's all I have.

Webb Building conversion is starting Dec. 1 and Greystone in February. Asbestos abatement has started on the Warehouse Lofts (old Seneca Paper warehouse at 210 Ellicott)- construction on that conversion starts next month. Warehouse Lofts will have a model open by Summer, in time for the Housing Tour II.

There's something cooking for the Genesee Block. But we can't talk about that just yet. :gossip:

^^^
I knew it! Ecoast is the king of info officailly! maybe you can search the dumpster again and find out some more!:| I also heard that by next week we'll officially know whether or not Bass pro is coming and if they'll knock down the aud.
What % is filled so far for the Issa Tower?
thanks for all the updates, keep em' coming!

There is going to be a Flag Lowering Ceremony at the Dulski (former) Federal Building on Monday, November 13, 2006 at 11 AM. The Federal government will symbolically lower the National Colors for the last time and turn the buidling over to its new ownership. This will clear the way for work to begin on the conversion of this building to mixed use office/hotel/residential.

Does that count as news?

I also heard that by next week we'll officially know whether or not Bass pro is coming and if they'll knock down the aud.
I mentioned a week or so back, that one of those black/dark brown sheet panels around the top of the Aud is missing, I was wondering if there was any meaning to that or if it just fell or something. I don't think it was storm damage (what's going to hit the Aud besides an airborne ex-Skyway vehicle?), but maybe it was.

Sentimental attachments aside, that building needs to go. It'll never be used for anything, and using it for a store would be a joke.

There is going to be a Flag Lowering Ceremony at the Dulski (former) Federal Building on Monday, November 13, 2006 at 11 AM. The Federal government will symbolically lower the National Colors for the last time and turn the buidling over to its new ownership. This will clear the way for work to begin on the conversion of this building to mixed use office/hotel/residential.

Does that count as news?

Yes it does, i forgot about that. Im looking forward to what the "skin" will look like when its all done.

^Glass and stell would be ideal. It'll fit in well with BCT and the new courthouse.

buildings made of stell are sharp...but I hear that it really isn't practical anymore since the coal mines shut down in England.

lol

should be interesting to see what happens with Dulski, having been in there and any of you who also have been in there in recent years will agree that it needs some work...in a way I'm glad we didn't lose this building.

Another office building announcement coming- nothing major- three stories near downtown. Details as soon as tomorrow.

:cheers:

Hey guys, when will we know more on the exciting Issa tower downtown? :?
I don't want this development to fade away. Are there any dates given that we can look forward to that will give more info concerning this tower?
Thanks,

Steve

to be completed by 2010

Another office building announcement coming- nothing major- three stories near downtown. Details as soon as tomorrow.

:cheers:

Perhaps you're refering to something in the vicinity of the larking exchange building? ;)

to be completed by 2010

That's not too far off. :)

Perhaps you're refering to something in the vicinity of the larking exchange building? ;)

:okay:

CityView Development is planning a new office building: Mill Race Commons- 75,000 sq.ft., 3 stories planned at 725 Exchange Street, across from Larkin at Exchange Building.

Don't have a rendering yet, but I've been asking!

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6931/larkinqr8.jpg

RED = Properties owned by CityView Development

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/11/larkin_district_grows.php

Great that it appears to be on the site of a parking lot, though I'd rather go after the CBD ones first. But still.

Maybe this development will start helping the surrounding neighborhoods.

Seems like that is moving towards the traditional CBD to bridge that gap. It's kind of a business district itself. It would be cool to be in Pilot Field one day and look out past the outfield and see some nice buildings.

^^^
that area is starting to build up! In 5 years or so that could be our "2nd city" or "up town". It will also extend the skyline well. even though 3 stories isnt much, but im sure cityview isnt done yet with all the property they own there.

The other cool thing is that if they can fill that Larkin building, Issa should be able to fill his. That Larkin building is the equivalent of a 25 storey tower. It's a very broad building.

Yeah, the Larkin building is just about completely full right?

What's the story with the big white-ish building immediately to the west of Larkin? It's pretty much a similar sized building, just rather decrepit. It has a big sign on it facing the I-190, "Seneca" something on it.

What's the story with the big white-ish building immediately to the west of Larkin? It's pretty much a similar sized building, just rather decrepit. It has a big sign on it facing the I-190, "Seneca" something on it.
yeah that building looks prime for a loft or mixed-use conversion, if given some TLC like the Larkin building received.

Yeah, I'm not saying there is anything going on - just everytime I pass it, it almost seems like it should be a near-identical twin to the Larkin.

"Welcome to Buffalo - Now specializing in horizontal skyscrapers"

^ ha- so true. We have about 5 buildings that if stacked would equal 25-30 storey buildings. Next we will build a series of reverse skyscrapers and everyone will be working underground.

the Larkin complex that remains is made up of the current Larkin exchange building (city view) and the larger older building that has a few businesses and also faces Seneca street. Should be interesting to see what happens with this area...it has alot of potential and if the current larkin building being filled is any indication...I would like to see City View doing more around Buffalo.

That Seneca building next to Larkin is freaking MASSIVE. I mean it honestly might be 2 million sq ft. I always wondered what was in there. And what ever needed that much space when it was built.

That Seneca building next to Larkin is freaking MASSIVE. I mean it honestly might be 2 million sq ft. I always wondered what was in there. And what ever needed that much space when it was built.


701 Seneca. Back in the 80's-90's my Mother worked there on the 6th floor at a company called Niagara Envelope. They occupied almost all the floors. I remember going there as a kid and seeing these massive machines cutting, folding, and sorting huge rolls of paper that must have weighed tons. Then they moved to Holland, NY (just South of East Aurora). A few years back I worked DHL, and that building was on my route. Pretty much all the floors were occupied with companies ranging from Quality Laser (printer repair), A few computer networking companies, a hat maker, label maker, and many others. It is a rather large building.

701 Seneca. Back in the 80's-90's my Mother worked there on the 6th floor at a company called Niagara Envelope. They occupied almost all the floors. I remember going there as a kid and seeing these massive machines cutting, folding, and sorting huge rolls of paper that must have weighed tons. Then they moved to Holland, NY (just South of East Aurora). A few years back I worked DHL, and that building was on my route. Pretty much all the floors were occupied with companies ranging from Quality Laser (printer repair), A few computer networking companies, a hat maker, label maker, and many others. It is a rather large building.

Cool. I hope some of those companies are still there. I'm fairly certain that the hat maker you refer to was New Era, and that they left the building a few years back. I think with some decent investment it could make for one hell of a self-contained buisness park, like the Tri-Main Center.

That Seneca building next to Larkin is freaking MASSIVE. I mean it honestly might be 2 million sq ft. I always wondered what was in there. And what ever needed that much space when it was built.

I think you're about right on size- it is at least twice as big as the CityView building. It was originally another of the Larkin Co. buildings over there- I think most of them were built for Larkin- they had an urban 'campus' of buildings. Quite impressive. I don't know if that building is a conversion candidate- probably best kept as light industrial- maybe they can put some residential in a portion of the building, but it would be a HUGE undertaking to convert the whole thing. Some of the other properties nearby- are smaller and are begging for reuse. There's a red-brick building over there- Sam Son Distribution?- that I believe the upper floor windows are completely missing. Guess the owner doesn't want the building to be around.

I'm putting a short post up tomorrow on BRising about CityView's properties (using the map posted here).

Should be interesting. I just wish it was all a little bit closer to downtown.

On an unrelated note, Someone mentioned that something was happening in the Genesee block. Got any info on that? ;)

Should be interesting. I just wish it was all a little bit closer to downtown.

On an unrelated note, Someone mentioned that something was happening in the Genesee block. Got any info on that? ;)


:dunno: :runaway:

Haha just looked back in the thread and saw that the someone i mentioned was you. :nuts: Can you possibly give us an idea of the scale involved? :) I'm dying for some news now. Urban development has basically become another sport to me. I follow Buffalo like i would a team, and it feels like following a club that has sucked for years but you stayed with because your a diehard fan and now they're about to make the playoffs and you can't get enough of them. Issa is doing well in my fantasy league. :cheer:

Erie Canal heritage flowing into place
Final stage of project with October deadline includes historical interpretive elements

The overhaul of Buffalo's inner harbor to focus attention on its Erie Canal heritage has reached the final stage and is on track for an October 2007 completion.
...
Huber Construction, of Depew, and Patrick Development of Western New York, of East Amherst, have submitted bids for landscaping and construction, including a replica wooden wharf and cobblestone paths.
...
While the reworked harbor will not be completed until next fall, several of its key features are coming into view. The 80-foot, bowstring-style bridge, which is being fabricated by Buffalo's BIDCO Marine, will be hoisted into place before the end of the year.

Work continues on the exterior of the three-story military museum building, on the west side of the Commercial Slip. The City of Buffalo is also poised to install cobblestone streets on the east portion of the 12-acre site.

Planners are formulating ideas to flesh-out the harbor area, which could include active, period-style buildings and additional historical elements.

Full: http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061111/1049693.asp

http://www.buffalonews.com/graphics/2006/11/11/actualsize/1111slip_mrln.jpg

http://www.buffalonews.com/graphics/2006/11/11/actualsize/1111slip_mrln.jpg

Any chance that in the near future those awful Marine Drive Apartments will come down?

If I had the money I would by them knock them down and building condos atleast 12s and some parks there.lol.

^ well it was a big issue in the last mayor election...Byron Brown said that under no circumstance will Marine Drive Apts ever be sold, while Kevin Helfer said he would sell them on day one...God they're so f**king hideous, they look like they belong in the Bronx.

These are older than the skyway, they went up in 1952 at about 180 ft tall each.

The massive white building:

http://www.senecadevelopment.com/Home/Available/SENECAINDUSTRIALCENTER

This has been in use as long as I can remeber (forty years) mant companies are located there.

All this I didn't know.

From what I've gathered, mostly from driving by on the I-190, you'd think it was abandoned. Learn something new every day.

Sure could use a facelift, however.

"Biomedical company considers WNY sites
Business First of Buffalo - November 10, 2006 by James Fink Business First


The Buffalo area is on a short list for a biomedical company that could move its research-and-development operations to the region.

Representatives of the Buffalo Niagara Enterprise and Empire State Development Corp. spent most of Nov. 7 huddled with officials from the unnamed company - referred to in local economic development circles as "Project Bamboo" - and its site selection team, Fluor Global Services. to pitch the region."

Link: http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2006/11/13/story6.html

Full story in the bizjournal or if you are a paid print subscriber.

:wave:

:lurker:

"Biomedical company considers WNY sites
Business First of Buffalo - November 10, 2006 by James Fink Business First


The Buffalo area is on a short list for a biomedical company that could move its research-and-development operations to the region.

Representatives of the Buffalo Niagara Enterprise and Empire State Development Corp. spent most of Nov. 7 huddled with officials from the unnamed company - referred to in local economic development circles as "Project Bamboo" - and its site selection team, Fluor Global Services. to pitch the region."

Link: http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2006/11/13/story6.html

Full story in the bizjournal or if you are a paid print subscriber.

:wave:

:lurker:


Here's the important stuff:


On the short list are a 144-acre site off Long Road on Grand Island and another in Batavia.

The economic development prize is a private-sector investment that could top $50 million while the company builds a 200,000-square-foot research center that could employ as many as 300 people in high-tech positions, mostly in research and science.

Fluor also is eyeing a central New York site near Syracuse. New York is among five states on the company's radar screen. Also being considered are Georgia and North Carolina.

Great news Norther Crusader! A win like this is what the new biomedical campus needs. Big news to make the investment worthwhile. Even if it's not located in the city, I'm sure the callaboration of the new campus is what attracted them to consider WNY.

fingers crossed.

The Dulski was officially handed over today! its time for some renovations... say about $50 million worth!:yes:

^yay. can't wait to see the new look, or what the new look will look like i should say.

The Dulski was officially handed over today! its time for some renovations... say about $50 million worth!:yes:

Was that the ceremony or the official sale? I checked at County Clerk, and nothing recorded yet.

Thats what I heard on the news, channel 7. They said estimated $50 million in renovations including face lift.

Below is the article from the ch 7 website. They are not saying the renovation will cost $50 million thae are saying it would have cost the federal government that much under post-911 rules. The new owners did not say how much they are going to spend on it.


Old Dulski Federal Building Decommissioned.

Nov 13, 2006 - The Thaddeus Dulski Federal building officially changed hands today. Federal workers and members of Dulski's family watched as the flag was lowered outside the structure named after the U.S. congressman. Uniquest-Delaware Corporation bought the building for 6.1 million dollars back in September. Many of the government workers from the Dulski building were relocated to the new Federal Building on South Elmwood.

The "Post September Eleventh" federal government standards would have required up to 50-million dollars in renovations to the 35-year old Dulski building. The new owners say the building will look entirely different after they remodel it, but they haven't disclosed just what the structure will be used for.

it will be interesting to see Dulski, BSC, Federal Courthouse and Statler all getting worked on...hell half of downtown will be a detour. lol

New Era looks good, and HealthNow is starting to come to life.

I have to admit, for all the comments (many valid) on HealthNow's size, height, suburban-ness, etc., the building is pretty impressive when seen from I-190, southbound at least.

^ yeah i love the curved glass side facing the I-190. I often get off the I-190 NB at Niagara Street rather than Oak Street just so I can drive by and see the new building.

It is a massive building. I could believe how big when I drove by in early Oct. The curved glass facade does look good.

Has anybody noticed that the Electric Tower hasn't been lit at night lately? I live next door..I'm wondering why??

^ I've seen it lit a few times in the new Sabres colors...maybe they just don't wanna pay the electric bill to keep it lit at night anymore. Btw, where do you live? IS? Oak School? Holling Place?

IMO, the lighting for the buildings should be paid for by Buffalo Place...so that Buffalo can have a skyline to look at nightly. Nimo is still renovating in the back now, so I dunno if they are working on something that would effect the lighting.

How ironic that the Electric Building cannot afford electricity to use their lights at night...if that's really the reason. :)

Thanks to TheStip for finding this:

Krog only bidder for downtown site

Business First of Buffalo - 2:32 PM EST Tuesdayby James FinkBusiness First

A vacant downtown Buffalo parcel is being eyed by a prominent local developer as the site for a new, multi-tenant, Class A office building.

The Krog Corp. is the apparent winning bidder for a pie-shaped parcel along Church Street that cuts behind the Adam's Mark Hotel and just opposite the new headquarters for HealthNow New York Inc. Krog was the sole bidder during an RFP process the Buffalo Urban Renewal Agency conducted this summer.

The Buffalo Urban Renewal Agency is expected to name Krog designated developer at its meeting on Thursday morning, although because of a scheduling conflict, Peter Krog said he may ask the city for a two-week extension.

Krog, one of the region's most active developers, is proposing to construct between a four-story and six-story building that will have anywhere from 78,000-square-feet to 133,000-square-feet, depending on the tenant roster.

The project is expected to cost between $11 million and $17 million to complete, depending on its size and tenant roster, Krog said.

Krog confirmed he is negotiating with a local law firm that is seeking as much as 50,000 square feet in the building with the potential for future expansion.

Krog said he is also negotiating with a major engineering firm, who is considering opening a 30,000-square-foot office.

Krog declined to identify the firms.

Can all of these proposed projects be for real? I absolutely love to idea of a new building going in this location. I drive by there every day and always thought that would be a great location for a building. I think blocking the view of the elevated thruway is a good thing, and it would make Church Street so much more aesthetically pleasing.

I love the way these projects seem to piggyback on each other. I doubt that anyone would have such serious plans for this parcel if Healthnow was not going up directly across the street.

So if Krog is talking a law firm and an engineering firm...is anyone talking to Paladino about 50 Court? And if the law firm can wait a few years, wouldn't they much rather be in City Tower?

So if Krog is talking a law firm and an engineering firm...is anyone talking to Paladino about 50 Court? And if the law firm can wait a few years, wouldn't they much rather be in City Tower?

Or do we have a bunch of law firms bailing on Class B and C space for the new Class A, or from Lancaster and Williamsville? Notice there is few to no spec buildings going up in the burbs at present but a much greater amount being proposed and constructed in the downtown core and the Larkin District, is there a sea change in the midst?

I find it interesting, and a little odd, that so much big new development has focused on the South Elmwood area of downtown.

There are other smaller projects around the city, but with the exception of the Gate Circle proposal, most dramatic new stuff is on the west side of downtown.

I guess there's a lot of available space there, but there is also a lot of space on the East and North ends of downtown, but they're much more quiet. East side news has been smaller Loft/Condo renovation projects.

It's all good news... just seems wierd how the locations are so focused.

If these projects all happen, the west side of DT will be the shiny new part of Buffalo within 7 years. ... all glass and steel new architecture.

Krog only bidder for downtown site
I hope they name it the Krog Tower.
How cool is that?
;)

I went to High School with that guy out in OP. He was a few years ahead. He married another girl from OP High School. Never would have forseen such ambition. Good for him.

nice It seems like every week we're finding out new projects!
Im most excited about the Larkin district. How cool will it be in about 5-7 years when it becomes our "up town". But all of these new projects seem promising, im just not counting the hens yet.

My guess for migration west- larger vacant lots and lake views if you're building high enough. That's alright, leave the area around the Theater District and Ellicott Street for residential. :)

Now if we can just get those lots at Main/Seneca, Main/Swan and Lafayette Square filled in. :ohno:

^ I've seen it lit a few times in the new Sabres colors...maybe they just don't wanna pay the electric bill to keep it lit at night anymore. Btw, where do you live? IS? Oak School? Holling Place?

I live at Holling...I also considered that it may not be lit because of the work they're doing.

I went to High School with that guy out in OP. He was a few years ahead. He married another girl from OP High School. Never would have forseen such ambition. Good for him.

That's his son who also works in the family business. The elder Peter Krog is from Dansville. See his profile below.


http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/1998/07/20/focus2.html


Obstacles didn't stop Krog in building construction firm
Business First of Buffalo - July 17, 1998by Paul Chimera
When a reporter arrived at The Krog Corp. in Orchard Park recently to interview President Peter Krog, the receptionist, who lives in the Cayman Islands but was temporarily handling front desk duties -- and who happens to be Krog's daughter, Gay -- was asked to describe her father.

"Non-stop!" she unhesitantly responded.

That assessment appears to be as accurate as it is terse.

Krog has been in perpetual motion ever since he cut his teeth working for his late father's "handyman" construction business in Dansville.

Today, Krog is at the helm of a leading general contractor/developer company that maintains an office in Corning to better serve Pennsylvania and New York's Southern Tier.

The company's project portfolio includes virtually every area of the construction market. It spans design and construction for new properties, and renovation in the commercial, industrial, educational and institutional sectors.

Krog says it's his 3-year-old company's strong design capacities and cost-effective project management approach that have given him a competitive edge.

"I have a taste for good design, and can incorporate design at the least cost," said Krog, emphasizing that the trick is the right blend of good esthetics and cost-sensitivity.

Krog's company was formed in 1995 after he opened his consulting and engineering firm in 1975 and then co-founded The Zaepfel-Krog Corp. He handled the development of all 10 corporate structures in the Quaker Centre Industrial Park, where his 5,000-square-foot main office building sits.

His philosophy of melding good design with economic prudence first took shape there when Gaymar Industries, a medical products manufacturer, needed new office space in the early 1980s.

He approached Gaymar owners and proposed pricing a new building, successfully dissuading the company from its initial plan to move into an existing facility outside Orchard Park.

"I love to watch something come out of the ground. To say, `Geez, I did that!' " he said, acknowledging he is driven by the desire to sometimes "do the undoable."

When Wegman's Food Markets in Rochester needed new corporate offices several years ago, The Krog Corp. landed the job.

"I like going into a strange area and beating the local competition," he declared.

When bids were sought in connection with an old, vacant building in Dunkirk, other contractors proposed tearing it down and building a new structure. Krog's winning plan, however, was to renovate with certain additions.

"It helps Dunkirk, it puts the building back on the tax rolls. It saves the county money because they're not putting up a new building," Krog said "I like being creative and making things happen. I like seeing marginal projects turned into good projects."

Said Frank McGuire of the McGuire Group Inc. in Buffalo: "Peter's an exceptionally bright design engineer/contractor. He's done work for me for over 20 years. When I encountered structural difficulties in the Gulf of Mexico, I sent him down to redesign what Florida architects did to make it work. He's exceptionally capable at what he does."

Krog graduated from the State University of New York Technical Institute at Alfred in 1962. He was then employed by the consulting engineering firm of Eckerlin and Klepper in Syracuse.

In 1964, he moved to the consulting and engineering firm of Rupley Bahler Blake (formerly Thomas McKaig) of Buffalo, the largest structural engineering firm in Western New York.

His professional credentials include certification by the U.S. Department of Defense for fallout shelter analysis and design. He was responsible for installing institutional and residential bomb shelters in the early 1960s, "when they were a big issue," he remembers.

These days, the big issues revolve around clients who want to lease space. They represent the majority of requests for his firm's services.

A partial list of his tenants include Merrill Lynch in Jamestown; Digital Equipment Corp. in Corning; and the U.S. Department of Agriculture in Ellicottville where Krog has a second residence on 300 acres.

Krog takes great satisfaction in providing jobs for his approximately 30 employees, one of whom is his son, Peter, manager of construction projects and real estate holdings.

A member of the Ellicottville Ski Club and the Safari Club, among other organizations, Krog loves nature and says he'll retire when he feels confident he's developed a staff that can take over and continue to make the business grow.

Then, he promises, he'll pursue his passion for travel which takes him most often to favorite places such as Colorado and Alaska. He loves the wilderness, game and fishing, which explains why much of his corporate wall space features pictures of birds, rams, deer and mountain scenes.

Golf also is a hobby, though he laments it takes too much time for a non-stop guy like himself. Instead, when he's not building and leasing, he's apt to be found traversing his 100-acre residential property in Orchard Park -- atop a brush hog or 15-foot mower.

It relaxes him, he explains. But it's work, too.

^Yeah, I see he is Pete Krog II. Still, cool that he can get to be a big part of a well respected firm.

Dulski to begin its renovation in Jan. 2007:)

Any mention of design plans? I'm really hoping they build out the Elmwood and Delaware sides out to the sidewalk with shops/restaurants. It could easily extend the Chippewa district south.

They are in the middle of the design