...continued from the old thread.

Here's a link to the previous thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=361737

Tim Hortons to open 1st downtown store

Business First of Buffalo - 1:52 PM EDT Monday
by James Fink

For the first time in the company's history, Tim Hortons, the popular coffee and restaurant chain named after the late Buffalo Sabres' defenseman, is opening a downtown Buffalo location.

Tim Hortons has signed a lease to open a store in the restaurant and fast food area of One HSBC Center, downtown's tallest office building.

The Tim Hortons location will begin serving its first doughnut and coffee from the downtown spot in late November. It will offer a full line of Hortons products including breakfast and lunch sandwiches, soup and fresh baked-goods.

"Tim Hortons is an attractive addition to our growing array of food services available to tenants in the building," said Steve Fitzmaurice, Seneca One Realty chief operating officer. "The franchise also has nostalgic ties to this area with Buffalo as its starting market in the 1970s as the company expanded its operations in the U.S."

Horton opened his first doughnut shop in Hamilton, Ont. in 1964 while he was still a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Horton played his final season and a half with the Buffalo Sabres until he died in a single-car, late night accident on the Queen Elizabeth Way in February 1974 while returning to Buffalo from Toronto.

The publicly-traded Tim Hortons was spun off from Wendy's International Inc. as of this past Sept. 29. Tim Hortons has 2,625 locations in Canada and 297 in the U.S. There are more than 50 stores in the Buffalo area.

"The people of New York state have really embraced the Tim Hortons concept, and we're pleased to soon offer another convenient location in the Buffalo area," said Chris Laganos, Tim Hortons senior vice president of U.S. operations. "We're particularly excited to have a location in the downtown core."

^ This news isn't nearly as important, unless you're like me and love Tim Hortons (I'm a Canadian, you Americans love your DUNKIN DONUTS). I thought I would put it here, since it really doesn't fit the MASSIVE TOWER proposal for Buffalo!

Just got home from work (doing some catch up from having to miss most of this week) and I got the letter... we were denied the claim on our homeowner's.

I am very angry and depressed right now. I am just thankful that we have the money to replace what was destroyed. Many others around here aren't so lucky Let's hope FEMA pulls through...
This might cheer you up -

Q - My basement flooded, and I lost my hot water heater/furnace. Is that covered?

A - FEMA considers seepage due to non-operative sump pumps an eligible item, and hot water heaters and furnaces and electrical infrastructure would be covered.

Good News for tourism


http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061026/1046230.asp

Erie County's tourism and convention business - one of the few growth industries in the eyes of many - would get a major boost in funding as part of a tentative agreement announced Wednesday.

The deal, if approved, would set aside all of the county's hotel bed tax revenue - an estimated $6.4 million next year - for use by the Buffalo Niagara Convention and Visitors Bureau.

In return, the bureau would begin funding several tourism-related expenses now paid by the county, including the downtown convention center. The group also would give the county $1 million each of the next two years.

...The deal, if it goes through, would give the Convention and Visitors Bureau what it always wanted - a dedicated and constant source of money for its marketing efforts.

...The agreement would more than triple the amount of county money that goes to the bureau but saddle the group with additional expenses, most notably the convention center and its own budget. The group also would fund the Buffalo Niagara Film Commission.

...The deal, if approved by county legislators, would reverse a trend that has seen the bureau's budget drop from $4.6 million three years ago to just over $2 million this year.

So much for a vacation... one of my coworkers fell ill so I have to fly home from TPA today to work Friday. The bank has offered to pay for the ticket so I would be able to fly back to FL on Saturday if I so desired though.

Eh. Work.

Thanks for the news on the furnace, btw.

We need an airport like Tampa's -- they have monorails!

Orlando's does too, right?

But the question. If BNIA builds a monorail, where exactly would it go? To the intersection of Union & Genesee and just end? Prior Aviation? Knowing the NFTA's history of fixed-path transit...

What you get with a public, state-run authority that doesn't answer to the public good. Though not that the NFTA itself is much different than any other transit authority, it just happens to be run by Albany.

So much for a vacation... one of my coworkers fell ill so I have to fly home from TPA today to work Friday. The bank has offered to pay for the ticket so I would be able to fly back to FL on Saturday if I so desired though.

Eh. Work.

When did you fly down to Tampa? I was down there this past weekend for the Eagles game.

We need an airport like Tampa's -- they have monorails!

So does Atlanta...i've only flown in there once b4, but that's all i remember from that airport. Ik u've been there a bunch o' times.

So does Atlanta...i've only flown in there once b4, but that's all i remember from that airport. Ik u've been there a bunch o' times.

Atlanta has more of a subway system than a monorail system. At least the part of the airport I was in.

Las Vegas has a monorail system as well.

^ oh ok...I think Orlando has a monorail as well.

We need an airport like Tampa's -- they have monorails!


Where would it go?

Where would it go?
Rick's Tally Ho.

yea...but Rick won't be there.

We have a elevated train in the Toronto airport. it is called LINK

No one cares about Canada.

stupid weather is delayingmy BUF-MCO flight. Grrr, coldness.

Take a car. You'll see more scenery along the way. Well, not right now on account of darkness, but you know...

Huge news about the Downtown Tim Horton's! That will be a catalyst for future development downtown.

What they ought to do is open up street level retail in the area along Main St under the HSBC tower, put the Timmy's there. Open-air, yet covered...

Atlanta has more of a subway system than a monorail system. At least the part of the airport I was in.

Las Vegas has a monorail system as well.Went through there on my way to Central America last summer. My God, is that thing fast.

No one cares about Canada.

we dont care about Nashville or Birmingham...but you like to bring that up alot.

:)

Huge news about the Downtown Tim Horton's! That will be a catalyst for future development downtown.



That's been downtown development, Buffalo style! Hopefully things will pick up!

stuff is going on...alot actually. maybe not at the calibre of places like Baltimore (downtown) or Toronto. We have lofts and converts constantly in progress or being completed or announced...entire blocks are being renovated back to life...we have two office buildings being built, a handful proposed or planned and we have empty federal buildings being purchused and added to the market.

all this in the last 2-3 years...:)

That's been downtown development, Buffalo style! Hopefully things will pick up!

huh? Have you been on vacation the last couple weeks? And hopefully at some point in the next few weeks the Cardinals can win the World Series too.

yea did they ever build that KeyBank Center in Buffalo...you know the one that is gonna have the pyramid tops lighted in green neon? or the Marine Midland tower...how is the progress on that?

Ughhhh.

Cardinals.

Blech.

Otherwise, classic negativity from the forumer who says he's never negative. Obviously something happened in the course of his life to make him get so hot and bothered by people who are happy here, such that he has to consistently make underhanded and thinly veiled negative comments both here and in the USUI forum. What a life that must be.

I wonder what his bootlick has to say. I'm surprised we haven't yet heard.

^ I was serious, how did bayviews not hear about the Issa Tower, Statler renovations, Dulski renovations, Federal Courthouse, 50 Court (Paladino Bldg.) and a couple big controversial projects (casino & bass pro)...there is some big developments happening d-town.

BREAKING NEWS:Thruway Votes To Remove I-190 Tolls (http://www.wben.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=06123)
Monday, October 30, 2006 08:55 AM - WBEN Newsroom

Buffalo, NY (WBEN) - The New York State Thruway Authority has voted to permanently cease collection of the 75 cent toll on Interstate 190, The Niagara Section of the Thruway.

The vote ends collections at the Ogden and Breckenridge toll plazas, and paves the way for their ultimate removal.

Under the plan, the toll barriers will remain in place, requiring motorists to slow down as they approach the booths. The booths will be removed next year.

The plan was worked out after it was agreed to use $14 million in pork barrel funds from the state Senate to cover the loss of a year's worth of toll collections at the two toll barriers.

"Today the New York State Thruway Authority gave this community what it deserves and demanded - a toll-free I-190 in Buffalo," said Congressman Brian Higgins in a prepared statement.

"Residents from the city and the suburbs; leaders from the public and private sectors; local, state and federal officials; Democrats and Republicans were relentless in standing up for what is right and we prevailed," he said.

Higgins was part of a coalition of politicans and others, who had been pressing for the toll removal.

Last week, his office announced that the Thruway Authority had cancelled a contract for improvements to the Breckenridge Toll barrier, just days after the State Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno added his support to tearing the tolls down.

Signs indicating a 25 mile-per-hour temporary speed limit were already spotted Monday in advance of the vote.

In addition, all of the candidates running for Governor, and both houses of the state legislature, have signed off on plans to fund the section of the Thruway without tolls.

"Frankly, it is is a longtime coming, but we are really happy it is happening today." said NYS Senator Dale Volker (R-Depew), in an interview with John Zach & Susan Rose on Buffalo's Early News.

Volker brushed away criticism that the timing, just before election day, is due more to politics than state funding.

"We realized that the only we could do this right away, was to offer economic development money that the Senate had (now). Frankly, I didn't think it could be done this quickly."

The entire state legislature, governor, and attorney general are on the ballot Nov. 7.

Thruway Press Release (http://www.nysthruway.gov/news/pressrel/2006/10/2006-10-30-buff-tolls-ceased.html)

Also, the control board may go hard!! (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061030/1058259.asp)

he was too busy reading about Somolain restaurants in Rochester...a true sign of growth. :lol:

honestly, I don't care if it was election year politics, or whatever the motive was (good or bad)...the important thing is that the tolls are gone. I think the residents of this area should view this as a major victory in the fight to slay the dragon in Albany and use this to build momentum for other things.

What I find funny is just how easy and quickly it all came about. I guess I was expecting some big protracted legal battle, or at least I was expecting Pataxme to sit on it through the end of his term.

Maybe they knew they were going to lose. I also see this as two birds with one stone, I couldn't figure out how in hell the Thruway happened into a 72 mile stretch (assuming the whole thing) of downstate highway with no tolls. That one bites the dust as well.

Now we just need to work together and banish tolls on the entire system, except for maybe the bigger bridges.

I'm curious to see how the situation with the barriers now hazardously sitting in traffic is going to work. They tried summer one-way tolling on I-95 in NH a few years back (and I think they still do), and on the southbound side (where the tolls were temporarily lifted) they had you drive through at 45 mph. The guy I work with from Caltrans said that and this I-190 proposal (he hadn't heard of either yet) were the most assinine things he's ever heard a highway department do. He doesn't see why those barriers can't be gone by winter. He just may not yet fully realize what state he's in.

And the Truck You Rode Out On (http://buffalopundit.wnymedia.net/archives/4185)

How a good day could have been much better...

This is funny.

^ I was serious, how did bayviews not hear about the Issa Tower, Statler renovations, Dulski renovations, Federal Courthouse, 50 Court (Paladino Bldg.) and a couple big controversial projects (casino & bass pro)...there is some big developments happening d-town.

It’s nice that the pace of Buffalo development has picked up a bit, but that’s from a very small base. Would be wonderful if Issa’s “tallest” tower comes to fruitarian. But that’s very much in the very preliminary stages. It'll be interesting to see what happens on that. Remember how that Adelphia tower that John Riga was going to build went from mid-range to short to nothing?

he was too busy reading about Somolain restaurants in Rochester...a true sign of growth. :lol:

Guess you missed that recent local newspaper series on the culinary & other contributions of Buffalo’s tiny but growing Somali community. Glad I’m no longer the only one here concerned with Buffalo who realizes the connection between new immigrant restaurants & growth!

What about Tim Hortons? bayviews?

hey discofab, i thought you'd like this. :lol:

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061031/1041321.asp

Vision of pink flamingos flocking here


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could plant's closing feather local nests?

By MICHELLE KEARNS
News Business Reporter
10/31/2006

Click to view larger picture

Robert Kirkham/Buffalo News
Jim Nowicki shows off an unopened box containing a pair of flamingos and one with which he decorates his lawn.

To one politician, the news that pink flamingo production has been suspended at the Massachusetts factory where the lawn ornaments got their start sounded like an amusing economic-development opportunity.
Perhaps state grant money could be found, and pink flamingo manufacturing could resume at a factory in the Buffalo suburb once known for having a preponderance of the plastic birds staked on its lawns.

"It could become the town bird," joked Assembly Majority Leader Paul A. Tokasz, a Cheektowaga native who is not running for re-election in the town once well-known for its flamingos. "And you could get a tax break if you put one on your lawn."

The pink flamingo has had a strangely powerful effect on Western New York.

Those who grew up a generation ago remember it as a favorite decoration in some neighborhoods.

In the 1980s, an entrepreneur reacted to the birds' tacky-yet-cool reputation by naming his new Allen Street bar the Pink Flamingo to better attract the alternative "misfit" crowd.

An organizer who grew up in the Polish part of Buffalo's East Side made the flamingo, a symbol of summer in the city, the official mascot of the Subaru Four-Mile Chase. This July, the 26th year of the competition, some 200 pink flamingos were given out as race prizes instead of medals.

Union Products, of Leominster, Mass., first began making the birds in 1957. The company, which stopped producing flamingos and other lawn ornaments at its factory in June, is going out of business Wednesday - a victim of rising expenses for plastic resin and electricity, as well as financing problems.

After being designed 49 years ago by Don Featherstone, of Leominster, the flamingos have since been celebrated as a tribute to one of nature's most graceful creatures and derided as the epitome of American pop culture kitsch.

Cheektowaga Town Supervisor Dennis Gabryszak, who is campaigning for Tokasz's seat, said he would be glad for good-paying jobs at a hypothetical pink flamingo factory. But he is not interested in continuing the association between the lawn ornament, its reputation for poor taste and Cheektowaga.

"In its day, Cheektowaga had more than its fair share of pink flamingos on lawns," said Gabryszak. "We're beyond that." Even so, people at Union Products expect manufacturing of Leominster-style pink flamingos will continue somewhere.

"We think the flamingo will go on," said Keith Marshall, Union Products' chief financial officer.

Other companies' knockoff versions of the Featherstone original remain in production. But the uncertainty surrounding the original has aficionados snapping up what they can via the online auction site eBay and elsewhere in case Featherstone versions go out of stock for good.

The Subaru Four-Mile Chase organizer, Jim Nowicki, still has the pair of faded pink plastic birds his parents kept on the family lawn on the East Side in the 1970s and 1980s. He has since expanded his collection to include a brass version, bar stools upholstered in pink flamingo fabric and a pair of pristine birds still nestled in their original box from Leominster.

"To me, it's going to be a collector's item," Nowicki said. "And I'm a collector."

To some, the birds appealed because they symbolized bad taste. They became the namesake of the 1972 John Waters film "Pink Flamingos," an epic to excess that celebrated a range of perversions. Some residential developments even banned flamingo ornaments from lawns.

That was part of the allure for Mark Supples, who spent part of his youth in Cheektowaga. He liked Waters' work, and when he opened the Pink Flamingo bar at 223 Allen St. in 1983, he wanted a name that would be a haven for "people that got beat up in other bars."

"It could be a punk rock bar. It could be a cheesy lounge. It could be gay," he said. "It was kind of to scare off normal people."

Supples, who now owns the Buffalo restaurants Mother's and Jimmy Mac's, sold the bar in 1989. The place is still open and still known for drawing an alternative, black-clad, tattooed and pierced crowd, along with nostalgic types who came of age in the 1980s.

People now call it "The Old Pink." Supples held on to the "Pink Flamingo" name rights and refused to turn them over to the bar's current owner.

"I just don't want anyone else to sully the reputation," he said.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I dunno. While they are very tacky, I fail to see how they're any worse than these friggin' inflatable balloons and snowglobe things that people put on their lawns for just about every holiday imaginable (especially Halloween). I'd rather have a crackhouse next door than someone who puts 25 of those things out (there's a house just south of Southgate on the west side of Union Rd in West Seneca, if anybody knows what I'm talking about).

I've never owned one, but I'll take the flamingo any day over this current crap.

OMG, that house in West Seneca is God awful.

It's funny - down here in Florida, I don't see of those inflatable things. Same goes for when I was in Nashville a few weeks ago.

Buffalonians just really love to decorate for holidays, seasons... you name it.

There may be a higher concentration here, I haven't seen enough to say either way. The West Seneca one has to be one of the all-time worst I've ever seen (not to mention a potential traffic hazard), not to say I haven't seen any abominations elsewhere. Though by that logic, I'm surprised there aren't any in Florida, knowing they owe half of their population to NYS in general.

All I know, if you're going to waste all that money on those things (which are rather expensive, not to mention the electric bill), you deserve to be broke. And if I were in a situation where I had lost power and the house across the street hadn't and they had those things out and on; my first errand would be to the store, not to buy a generator, but to buy a bee bee gun.

One thing I've noticed markedly less around here lately are election lawn signs. Don't seem to be as many as in other years, it's kind of nice.

It's funny - down here in Florida, I don't see of those inflatable things. Same goes for when I was in Nashville a few weeks ago.

Buffalonians just really love to decorate for holidays, seasons... you name it.
That may be less of a "buffalo thing" than maybe a "northern thing". Christmas decorations are traditionally geared for cold climates with snow and fir trees!

^^^^
speaking of holidays, does anyone else think that Halloween has lost its touch? I remember being a little kid and everywhere i looked things were decorated and people were dressed up! Now (even though im older) i see nothing. I dunno if its just me, or becuase of the storm, etc. I think its just bad times for Kids. Its definitly not how it used to be, i used to be out all night with a pillow case and eggs and toilet paper! now in order to go trick or treating u have to go to a mall??!! Yeah im older now, but its still fun to have that atmosphere around.

I don't know how much that has changed, but I remember when you could go out, and outside of your own neighborhood without behind afraid of child molesters, etc. We used to trick-or-treat in 4 neighborhoods (ours, our old, and 2 grandparents') on 2 separate days. Be damned if you can do that any more.

i can't remember what city, but i heard that in that city they rounded up all the molesters for Halloween night! What the f@ck is wrong with this world??? Its so sad that it has come to this.:crazy2:

But yeah, i used to go to a few neighboorhoods as well.

PoliticsNY.Net: Jack Davis claimed 75 full time employees, receiving full benefits at his plant in Akron, Monday night. I can tell you unless Jack hired the "day workers," tempts, that were working for him when he introduced them to me before lunch a few weeks ago, Jack isn't being honest. Not only that but just two years ago a very significant number of Jack's employees were "day workers." The reason so Jack would not have to pay the prevailing wage & benefits. I suggest Jack produce his payroll records over the last three years. Jack suggested a fence to keep Mexican day workers out of the country; maybe we should build a fence around Akron to keep "day workers" from being exploited at Jack's plant, that is rhetorical

i can't remember what city, but i heard that in that city they rounded up all the molesters for Halloween night! What the f@ck is wrong with this world??? Its so sad that it has come to this.:crazy2:

But yeah, i used to go to a few neighboorhoods as well.
In NYS they're supposed to remain in their houses for x hours (I've heard but not being one, forgot) :D. Enforced by the honor system, presumably. Yeah, right.

...Jack isn't being honest. Not only that but just two years ago a very significant number of Jack's employees were "day workers."...
There are two breeds of politicians: Those who are part of the system, and those who contend to be well-meaning but only want to be part of the system. Personally I think there are very few who run out of the goodness of their hearts, in general I think you have to be mildly sick to want that power in the first place.

^^^^
speaking of holidays, does anyone else think that Halloween has lost its touch? I remember being a little kid and everywhere i looked things were decorated and people were dressed up! Now (even though im older) i see nothing. I dunno if its just me, or becuase of the storm, etc. I think its just bad times for Kids. Its definitly not how it used to be, i used to be out all night with a pillow case and eggs and toilet paper! now in order to go trick or treating u have to go to a mall??!! Yeah im older now, but its still fun to have that atmosphere around.

As you age, things you found magical as a child fade away. For example, visiting Disney this week has been great, but it's just not the same for me as it was when I was a child.

:(

LOL I dread the day I ever have to take any kids there!

My gf, on the other hand, has family that has always lived down there, so she's been there like 15-20 times. I think at that point, you could take it or leave it as well.

A good local example is Fantasy Island. We always preferred that to Darien Lake (and I still do), but the last time I went it was depressing. And not just because they tore down half the park to build the rollercoaster. Though there's nothing like a wooden rollercoaster. Could be worse, at least as I remember it was recent enough that there was far more than just the stupid western show and 3-4 lame circular kiddie rides.

^^^^
speaking of holidays, does anyone else think that Halloween has lost its touch? I remember being a little kid and everywhere i looked things were decorated and people were dressed up! Now (even though im older) i see nothing. I dunno if its just me, or becuase of the storm, etc. I think its just bad times for Kids. Its definitly not how it used to be, i used to be out all night with a pillow case and eggs and toilet paper! now in order to go trick or treating u have to go to a mall??!! Yeah im older now, but its still fun to have that atmosphere around.

Never been to a Halloween party I'm guessing. Do people dress up for Hallowwen when they go to the bars? That's big here. We also have the Halloween Loop in Wilmington, which is basically a bar crawl that involves pretty much the entire city of Wilmington. There are usually around 20,000 people who attend the Halloween Loop on a given year (the Saturday before Halloween). (There are also Loops for St. Patrick's Day, Mardi Gras, and a couple other days.) Of course, you're 400 miles away, so this isn't of importance to you. But I would think that most cities have some kind of Halloween costume party.

I don't mind suburbia that much, but any place that restricts trick-or-treating to a mall is not worth living in. I've never even heard of trick-or-treating in a mall. So no residents give out candy or anything, only businesses?

I've heard of events held at malls, and "safe night" events at churches and schools, but never anything where you had to do that or sit at home.

I've heard of events held at malls, and "safe night" events at churches and schools, but never anything where you had to do that or sit at home.

I've never understood why people think Halloween is dangerous. If anything ever happened, there are hundreds of witnesses who are walking from house to house getting candy. Halloween is one of the safest nights of the year to me.

Yeah, I agree. As long as you're not being stupid about it, at least.

There are still too many wackos out there though, and seemingly alot more now than there were even when I was going house to house.

But that decline applies to alot more than just Halloween, so all things being equal, again, I agree.

i think all the fear-mongering during the seventies and eighties ruined halloween. the razor blade in the apple thing(absolute horseshit. no recorded incident of this ever happening anywhere in america.) acid in the candy, weird pervert type that pull you into your house and touch you.

its all just fear. there are no more molesters/perverts now than there were when you were kids. its just now they have to tell everyone in town that they are infact, molesters. so now everyone knows who the perverts are. so shouldn't it actually be safer than it used to be.

on a side note, one of my co-workers(a black man) informed me that black people do not trick or treat. i asked if it was just because of rough neighborhoods and he said "no, even in the suburbs black people don't trick or treat".
i don't know how much truth there is to that, but it was something i had never considered.

on a side note, one of my co-workers(a black man) informed me that black people do not trick or treat. i asked if it was just because of rough neighborhoods and he said "no, even in the suburbs black people don't trick or treat".
i don't know how much truth there is to that, but it was something i had never considered.
I think it's safe to say your co-worker is an idiot.
:)

Never been to a Halloween party I'm guessing. Do people dress up for Hallowwen when they go to the bars? That's big here.
Yes. Usually the Saturday night before halloween is when everyone dresses up for the bars. Halloween night itself at some places too.

on a side note, one of my co-workers(a black man) informed me that black people do not trick or treat. i asked if it was just because of rough neighborhoods and he said "no, even in the suburbs black people don't trick or treat".
i don't know how much truth there is to that, but it was something i had never considered.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't trick-or-treat, and many Blacks are Witnesses. I've seen lots of Blacks trick-or-treat before though.

I think it's safe to say your co-worker is an idiot.
:)

well that was kind of my thought. it did however dawn on me that while there are several black families on my block, i'm pretty sure none of their kids came to my house last night. i don't get too many trick or treaters anyway, and perhaps they take their kids elsewhere.
like i said, i didn't really know how much truth there was to it, it was just something that he brought up that i had never really thought about.

I am coming back to Buffalo today.

:(

DallasTexan is coming back to Buffalo today.

:(

As you age, things you found magical as a child fade away. For example, visiting Disney this week has been great, but it's just not the same for me as it was when I was a child.

:(

DT I had the exact same experience with Disney...I went there for the first time in 1999 when i was 17 (to play a baseball tournament)...Disney World was such a sham and I was sooo disappointed because in the movies it looks so magical, then when you get there you can see everything is robotic and all about money.

DallasTexan is coming back to Buffalo today.

:(

Good, we need a good dose of pessimism, skepticism, and defeatism from him. Well, its been a fun week being able to look forward to a positive future for Buffalo.

DT I had the exact same experience with Disney...I went there for the first time in 1999 when i was 17 (to play a baseball tournament)...Disney World was such a sham and I was sooo disappointed because in the movies it looks so magical, then when you get there you can see everything is robotic and all about money.
You should've just pulled Mickey's head off and had your parents sue for mental anguish on your behalf to make it worth the disappointment. Heck, the precedent had already been set. Although I think the head fell off, it wasn't taken off.

Good, we need a good dose of pessimism, skepticism, and defeatism from him. Well, its been a fun week being able to look forward to a positive future for Buffalo.

Funny thing is, my gf's boss was away as well when all the announcements about Issa, the tolls, etc. were made. And he's the worst. He actually has "notices" posted around the office about how everyone in Buffalo is a loser, and only losers like it here, etc. Makes you wonder why he'd call himself a loser then.

The whole thing makes me look forward to life when these jokers are gone, if that's what it's going to be like. Well for development news anyways, didn't really affect me personally (though I'm looking for excuses to drive through the tolls just as my way of saying F* you to the state).

He actually has "notices" posted around the office about how everyone in Buffalo is a loser, and only losers like it here, etc. Makes you wonder why he'd call himself a loser then.
That's like calling your brother a Son of a Bitch...

Some people just don't have enough IQ to realize their insulting themselves!

... (though I'm looking for excuses to drive through the tolls just as my way of saying F* you to the state).

I just went through the Ogden (former) tolls about ten minutes ago...stopped, and peeled out leaving a stream of black rubber smoke behind me.

good work Aaron!!!

I am back and it's snowing already! OK, what kinda joke is this? And whooo is behind it? It's not funny!

we just wanted to wait for you DT. lol

how was the trip?

Excellent. I had so much fun and it was so relaxing. I think I may go back on the weekend of Nov. 11th-13th because my tix are good until December 31st.

When it's sunny, 75, with a light breeze and no humidity, thanks can't get any better.

yea, I kinda wish I was in Arizona or something right now...its cold and I just like the summers here too much to give way to snow, ice and teen temps.

good work Aaron!!!

haha the V-Tec was fish-tailing all the way to the first exit

...And whooo is behind it? It's not funny!
Look in a mirror, the weather was fine up through yesterday. :D

It's actually amazingly beautiful outside right now... A thin blanket of fresh snow, colorful autumn leaves still falling, and brilliant sunshine.

I used to hate fall when I was a kid but now I really enjoy it. I think it's a sign of getting older. Lol. I don't want to give it up for year round summer.

It really is nice outside today though. Check it out!

I can't remember the last time there was a fall, however. Actually, in 2003 (I think) fall-like weather lasted until like early January with the exception of a snowstorm in early November, and then winter didn't really show up until March, and then I swear it snowed 2-3" every day through the beginning of May. That was in NH at least. I guess that's where my past 2-3 autumns have gone.

man its cold as a bitch out...wtf

lol, its 34.5 degrees outside at my house

yea cold...(I'm STILL thin blooded from living in Florida)

Temperatures in the 30's already? We just had our Indian Summer; temperatures were in the lower 70's or upper 60's for the past few days. Of course, that means the warm temperatures are gone until Spring, and the temps will be dipping. We're only supposed to get up to 50º tomorrow, and nighttime temperatures will get down into the mid-30's.

On another note though, I wish our winter had more snow like Buffalo. The worst weather is when it's 40º and raining. We get that way too much. You guys get that in the form of snow. It would be nice if any precipitation when it's cold was only snow.

We didn't have indian summer last year either...

Though I guess you could say it was "factored into" the dud of a winter we had.

Every year is different. I thought the last couple autumns were warmer than normal... so it's not a surprise to get a colder one once in a while. This year is DEFINITELY colder than normal.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06307/735327-34.stm

Buffalo stuffs Pittsburgh in pierogies competition
Friday, November 03, 2006

By Monica Haynes, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette



Pittsburgh. Pierogies.

Pierogies. Pittsburgh.

You can't think about the Steel City without visions of these delectable dumplings dancing in your head.

Because everybody knows that Pittsburghers consume more pierogies than anyone else in the world. OK, maybe just the United States.

That certainly should be enough to qualify Pittsburgh as the Pierogi Capital, right?

But noooo!

That distinction belongs to Buffalo, N.Y.

Yes, the city of hot wings and cold weather yesterday bested the 'Burgh to win the Capital of the Pierogi Pocket contest sponsored by Mrs. T's Pierogies, a food company based in Shenandoah, Pa.

Pittsburgh received only an honorable mention, as did Garfield, N.J., Lancaster, Pa., and Providence, R.I.

In addition to the title, Buffalo also received $10,000 to use for community projects of the city's choice. Pittsburgh and the other cities garnered $1,000.

"We're obviously thrilled," said Peter K. Cutler, spokesman for Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown.

"Buffalo has a long and storied ethnic heritage, particularly among Polish and other Eastern European ethnic groups and so we always felt our entry would be a strong one because of this heritage."

The pierogi pocket is that area of the country in the Northeast and part of the Midwest where folks eat more pierogies than anywhere else.

It includes Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois and parts of New York, southern New England and the Mid-Atlantic region.

Mrs. T's solicited entries from 30 cities for the contest, asking them to submit creative ways to demonstrate their enthusiasm for pierogies. The public could then vote online for one of the five finalists.

"We took the opportunity very seriously and mounted what we hoped would be a successful effort and in fact that's what happened," Mr. Cutler said.

Sure, Buffalo's mayor declared last Aug. 25 "Pierogi Pride Day" with festivities n 'at, including a pierogi cookoff and pierogi toss. And OK, they submitted a video and an original song.

But hey, we submitted a letter from the late Bob O'Connor's chief of staff Yarone Zoker.

"We are so passionate about pierogies that we include Pierogi Races in every Pittsburgh Pirates home game," the letter stated.

It went on to inform Mrs. T's about the four life-size pierogies -- Cheese Chester, Sauerkraut Saul, Jalapeno Hanna and Oliver Onion -- that compete during the bottom of the fifth inning at Pirates games.

If that's not pierogi passion, what is?

Helen Mannarino is owner of Pierogies Plus in McKees Rocks. When she opened her store 15 years ago, she researched the area and learned that 40 percent of the Pittsburgh population had Eastern European roots.

"They brought their recipes and their traditions," she said. "All of them know pierogies and all of them make pierogies."

Partly because of an appearance on the Food Network, her store now ships pierogies as far away as Alaska and Hawaii.

"We have to take this title away from them," she said about Buffalo.

Although this latest loss may rank just below the Steelers' humiliating defeat against the Oakland Raiders, Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl's spokesman Dick Skrinjar said the city has much to be proud of.

"At least we're still the city of trees, bridges, intelligent children and good looking and talented women," he said. And to show there are really no hard feelings, he's issued an invite to Buffalo officials.

"They can come down and eat pierogies and look at our [Super Bowl] trophy," he said.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Monica Haynes can be reached at mhaynes@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1660. )

with festivities n 'at,

I hate when I hear Pittsburgh people say that. That and "yinz".http://209.85.12.232/html/emoticons/dry.gif

I hate when I hear Pittsburgh people say that. That and "yinz".http://209.85.12.232/html/emoticons/dry.gif

and there's plenty of things i hate about the philly accent... like "wooder"... so stuff it

:lol:

Ahh, nothing like hosting a trans-Pennsylvania bitchfest. lol

I hate when people say "yous" or "y'all", and when they add the possessive to store names, i.e. Wal-Mart's, etc.

And when they say "melk" or "carmul".

Speaking of pierogies, that made our news today: City Takes Pierogy Title (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061103/1066421.asp)

y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all
y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all y'all

:D

dat dis an' doze

I'm goin down to da mall ta pick up some a doze new Sabres jerzees. Where's da mall you say? Its on da odder side a da truway over by der in Chicktowaga

lol @ Cheekto-pollocks :lol:

does upstate really have a distinct accent? people around here say i sound northern but i just don't notice it....even after being here 9 years and still talk to people back up tehre.

Just back from Peoria....I just thought I would throw that in to show that I can be just as well traveled as DT. Stayed at the fine Holiday Inn City Center....A hotel that only DT himself could fully appreciate.

Here's a picture of Point Abino for you guys. Keep an eye out in the Ontario section for a couple more threads from my annual trip to the area. I'll be posting them when I'm not lazy and feel like uploading another 100 or so pictures.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6936/dscf5390otv5.jpg

does upstate really have a distinct accent? people around here say i sound northern but i just don't notice it....even after being here 9 years and still talk to people back up tehre.

YES -- the women especially. Oh God, the women...

YES -- the women especially. Oh God, the women...


That is just the Chick-towaga accent you are hearing.

nice photo Matt

does upstate really have a distinct accent? people around here say i sound northern but i just don't notice it....even after being here 9 years and still talk to people back up tehre.

The closer to Albany you get (including your hometown of Utica) the more NYCish the people sound...the closer you get to Buffalo the more midwestern we sound (pop, hard 'a's, roll the 'r's)

I HATE TIME WARNER!!! Out since Friday, and everyday since they're GUARANTEED a technician will show up. Destroyed my weekend entirely.

Don't write checks that your mouth can't cash.

I never thought I may ever go satellite, but I may very well.

Ugh. Worst part is that I can't watch the Sabres.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06307/735327-34.stm

Buffalo stuffs Pittsburgh in pierogies competition
Friday, November 03, 2006



LOL! Who could overlook this Great Victory for Buffalo!

I HATE TIME WARNER!!! Out since Friday, and everyday since they're GUARANTEED a technician will show up. Destroyed my weekend entirely.

Don't write checks that your mouth can't cash.

I never thought I may ever go satellite, but I may very well.

Ugh. Worst part is that I can't watch the Sabres.

Too bad for you. You missed a really good game, the Rangers were up on Buffalo 3-1 and the Sabres scored 3 unanswered goals including a game winner by Briere with 1 minute left in OT. 4-3 Sabres!!:banana: :banana: :banana:

LOL! Who could overlook this Great Victory for Buffalo!
You. Nobody else was calling it a "great victory", more like offbeat. In fact you're the first reply directly in reference to it besides my posting of the local angle, which was 2 DAYS ago.

And you're not full of negativity? Maybe you ought to be out fighting the Minutemen down on the Rio Grande or something.
Too bad for you. You missed a really good game, the Rangers were up on Buffalo 3-1 and the Sabres scored 3 unanswered goals including a game winner by Briere with 1 minute left in OT. 4-3 Sabres!!:banana: :banana: :banana:
Listened to it on the radio, sounded pretty good with exception of the penalty kill. Sounded like they totally killed them 5 on 5, and the box score reflects that.

I was able to catch the Vile Weeds game at my parents' on CBC. God those announcers are bad, have they ever been able to properly correlate jersey numbers and names? On the Canadian teams even. But otherwise the game sucked after their only goal. But maybe it's part of the plan all along...lull the Wilted Leaves into thinking they're better than they are.

Then again, maybe they just lost because I wasn't able to watch the game on MSG. Hockey is a superstitious sport, after all...

Just back from Peoria....I just thought I would throw that in to show that I can be just as well traveled as DT. Stayed at the fine Holiday Inn City Center....A hotel that only DT himself could fully appreciate.

Yeah, well I'm stoked because my bf and I just booked our flights yesterday for our trip to Germany in March. We're not staying at any hotel chain, but with the family of the exchange student we hosted last year. March may be a little distant, I know, but we also have tickets for trips to NYC (for work, but we'll also do some Christmas shopping next month) and San Francisco in January, for the Zinfandel Festival.

You. Nobody else was calling it a "great victory", more like offbeat. In fact you're the first reply directly in reference to it besides my posting of the local angle, which was 2 DAYS ago.

And you're not full of negativity? Maybe you ought to be out fighting the Minutemen down on the Rio Grande or something.

I just thought that was rather funny. Like chicken wing eating contests! LOL!

anyplace that can make a good pierogie is pretty much guaranteed to have good food across the board and vice versa.

I just thought that was rather funny. Like chicken wing eating contests! LOL!
Yes, high-larious!

Let's not forget to mention the 100s of other various "regional eats" or just plain pigfests across this country. Americans due tend to be rather large, after all, it's only fitting that we occasionally celebrate it in some fashion. Some actually occur in cities of similar stature or even larger! LOL! For instance, I've heard Pittsburgh recently participated in this pierogi contest thing (not sure how they fared). Kansas City and Philadelphia also come to mind (alas, not for pierogis, however). As for the others, ever watch the Food Network? LOL!

Yeah, I know that really wasn't funny, but I sooo wanted to emulate you.

^^ ahhhhhh such gluttony. you know if we could only host a taco eating contest, then we'd be a real city...well only if the contest was held in a brick building

Yes, high-larious!

Let's not forget to mention the 100s of other various "regional eats" or just plain pigfests across this country. Americans due tend to be rather large, after all, it's only fitting that we occasionally celebrate it in some fashion. Some actually occur in cities of similar stature or even larger! LOL! For instance, I've heard Pittsburgh recently participated in this pierogi contest thing (not sure how they fared). Kansas City and Philadelphia also come to mind (alas, not for pierogis, however). As for the others, ever watch the Food Network? LOL!

Yeah, I know that really wasn't funny, but I sooo wanted to emulate you.

Phily has a wing-eating contest, called Wing Bowl (held the Friday before the Super Bowl). It might be the biggest wing-eating contest in the world: it brings in 21,000 fans at 6 AM. Most people get there earlier to tailgate though. I've been to the last two, and started tailgating at 1:30 AM both times. I took pictures at both and I'll eventualy show then on here (probably in February as the next Wing Bowl approaches).

An article on it from ESPN.com a couple years ago:


The Worst Event Ever
By Jim Caple
Page 2


PHILADELPHIA -- I have found the heart of the Philly sports scene ... and it isn't pretty.

You know Paulie, Adrian's brother in "Rocky"? Multiply him by the thousands, dress them in Eagles jerseys, fill each with a six-pack and stick them in a line so long it wraps around the Wachovia Center, throughout the parking lot and practically into New Jersey. Sprinkle some of these guys among the parked cars where they can urinate in semi-privacy. Carpet the lot with crushed beer cans and broken beer bottles. Throw in a cold wind and a winter rain.

Now, close the arena doors a half-hour before the competition begins because there is no more room inside the 20,000-seat center, forcing thousands of disappointed and angry fans to go home without the pleasure of watching 29 contestants eat as many chicken wings as possible in 14-minute rounds.

Oh, and did I mention? It's 5:30 a.m. on a weekday. That's right -- 5:30 in the morning.

"Oh well," one philosopher says after being turned away. "This just means we can go to the (strip) bar earlier."

Welcome to the Wing Bowl, an annual tradition that captures the worst of Philadelphia's sports reputation. If you think the Super Bowl is too understated, if pro wrestling is too high-brow, if Detroit's Devil's Night is too tame, this is the competition for you. Basically, the Wing Bowl is an excuse for Philly fans to drink excessively, crowd into the Wachovia Center, ogle large-breasted women and heckle and throw crap at contestants.

In other words, it's like the Flyers are playing again.

Begun a dozen years ago by a local radio station, the early morning wing-eating contest coincides with the station's rush-hour show and has grown so popular that the fans (almost exclusively male) charter buses and tailgate all night to make sure they can be among the 20,000-plus who get a seat. Overshadowing the Super Bowl when the Eagles aren't playing, Wing Bowl is such a Philadelphia institution that the Phanatic shows up, thereby lending an air of dignity to the affair.

Admission is free and there are no tickets -- it's first-come, first-in festival seating -- and the guy next to me said he got to the arena at 2:30 a.m. That's three and a half hours before the 6 a.m. start and there was no guarantee he'd get in.

It was like a Who concert, only less orderly.

I would not have gotten in had I not fought my way through the drunken crowd, nearly lost my reproductive capability while climbing a fence, elbowed my way through another pack of drunks and fortuitously come across Philadelphia Soul fullback Chris Ryan, whom I had interviewed earlier in the week. Ryan was competing in the contest and he slipped me a pass, then led the way through the mob to the employee entrance.

But hell. I had it easy getting into the Wing Bowl compared to the contestants, each of whom had to qualify through some extraordinary display of eating prowess. If you have wireless capability, you might want to move your laptop closer to the bathroom before reading these feats.

Rich the Butcher ate a pound of raw meat in one minute.

Hank the Tank ate five pounds of meatballs.

Wing Kong ate 2½ pounds of liverwurst in seven minutes.

(See? I warned you. And it's about to get worse.)

Wolfman ate two pounds of shrimp with 160 mealworms. Obi Wing ate 60 live cockroaches. And if you think the mealworms and cockroaches sound repulsive, bear in mind that Cookie Jarvis ate six pounds of spinach.

It's nothing but quality family entertainment at the Wing Bowl.

And get this -- Uncle Buc ate a 1½ pound candle. No, I'm not making that up. He ate a wax candle. Which I can only hope was not burning at the time. Or, if it was, it was nowhere near Moses Lerman after he finished eating six pounds of baked beans.

I try to imagine what it would be like to eat such amounts of food so quickly. Worse, I try to imagine how these guys felt afterward.

"How did I feel afterward? I felt like (crap)," Wing Kong tells me. "Are you kidding?"

So why did you eat 2½ pounds of liverwurst?

"Let me ask you, what's the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the word liverwurst?" Wing Kong asks, correctly anticipating the inevitable grimace. "Right. That's everyone's reaction. No one likes liverwurst. But I do. Just not in 2½ pound quantities. But I figured no one else would be able to do it."

He's probably right about that.

The first two hours of Wing Bowl are devoted to the procession of contestants, in which the eaters and their entourages enter the floor and slowly circle the arena while fans hurl cups of beverages and assorted other garbage at them. It's like what you would get if you mixed the Olympics opening ceremonies with Mardi Gras and spring break and crammed it all inside a hockey rink. Except in place of each country's national anthem, throw in video of projectile vomiting from a past contest.

Three-time champion El Wingador, a 300-pound local truck driver whose real name is Bill Simmons (no, not the same one), is easily the fan favorite, entering the arena to enormous applause. He was upset last year by 99-pound Sonya Thomas, aka the Black Widow, and the crowd clearly wanted revenge Friday. They showered so much garbage and jeers on Thomas that she had to be rushed to the stage under protection. They also derisively chanted "U-S-A!, U-S-A!" at Thomas, who lives in Alexandria, Virginia but is of Asian descent. As I said, this competition is nothing but class.

The actual competition works like this: The 29 contestants all compete in a 14-minute first round, eating wings from platters presented by the scantily-clad "Wingettes." After a short break, the top 10 eaters battle in another 14-minute round. Then the top few go on to a two-minute eat-off to determine the champion. Any vomiting or purging is an automatic disqualification -- in the Wing Bowl, what goes in, must stay in.

All wing totals are cumulative and last year Thomas won with a final tally of 167. "I'm shooting for 200 this year," she says backstage. "I can do it."

Perhaps, but I don't know how. She weighs 99 pounds and makes Mary-Kate Olsen look obese. Still, she holds the following records:

Nine pounds of jambalaya in 10 minutes.

Eight and a half pounds of sweet potato casserole in 12 minutes.

Eleven pounds of cheesecake in nine minutes.

Five and three-quarter pounds of asparagus in 10 minutes.

Four pounds of fruitcake in 10 minutes.

And 65 hard-boiled eggs in six minutes, 40 seconds.

(If you need to return to the bathroom, I'll wait.)

Wait, isn't Bill Simmons in Jacksonville writing his Super Blog?

Compared to those feats, the actual wing-eating is a rather dull affair, so much so that fans begin drifting out of the stands (or simply passing out) midway through the first round. Of the fans remaining, many turn their eyes from the competition to search the stands on the off-chance that the handful of women in attendance might bare their breasts. Sure enough, many oblige, as their dates beam with pride. And Philly fans wonder why they get a bad rep?

Now, if you find the brazen display of bare female breasts offensive, you're not only probably reading the wrong webpage, you obviously didn't see the 6-6, 350-pound man who was wearing a thong.

In an attempt to keep the crowd interested during the frequent and long commercial breaks, as well as maintaining the high standards of Wing Bowl, there is also a spectacular halftime act. A guy repeatedly smashes full beer cans against his head until they burst in an explosion of liquid and suds, then finishes his act by crushing one against the buttocks of his female assistant.

I tell you, it's like being at Cirque du Soleil. The final two-minute round produces an astounding tie between El Wingador and the Black Widow, forcing another two-minute round. Given how much they've already eaten and their expressions at hearing this news, I fear this could be the first accurate use of the term "sudden-death overtime."

Fortunately, the overtime does not prove fatal. And much to the remaining crowd's delight, Wingador pulls out a narrow victory, besting the Black Widow by one wing, 142-141.

Filled with wings, the contestants disburse to do whatever cool-down periods they require (I'd rather not speculate).

Sated by victory, the crowd spills out of the arena to head home for bed, the office for what would almost certainly be a most unproductive day of work, the strip joint for more high-class entertainment or, just as likely, to the local unemployment office.

Meanwhile, I return to my hotel, bleary-eyed, a little nauseous and convinced that I have just seen the most disgusting competition known to man.

And then I do a Google search and find out there is a mayonnaise-eating contest.

Jim Caple is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/050205

^^ ahhhhhh such gluttony. you know if we could only host a taco eating contest, then we'd be a real city...well only if the contest was held in a brick building


Nah, those sound just as silly too. But I'd bet that any cities that do hold authentic taco eating contests are growing a lot faster than those that hold chicken wing contests. Yah, better idea to hold it a brick building. Wooden buildings tend to burn down more!

Now.... speaking of tacos...Yer gunna want to go to Elmwood Taco and Sub for a really good taco (a great sub too). Now these are not Mexican style tacos. They are very unique to this place and I can't get enough of them. I recommend the Taco Supreme. It is at Elmwood and Delevan. For you suburban boys don't worry. That is not a bad neighborhood.

Nah, those sound just as silly too. But I'd bet that any cities that do hold authentic taco eating contests are growing a lot faster than those that hold chicken wing contests. Yah, better idea to hold it a brick building. Wooden buildings tend to burn down more!
Yeah, and they'll stand to lose more when real immigration reform is finally enacted.

Until then, I'm sure all the caucasian whites who make up a large portion of the said population loss will continue to flock to the south and west because there are more Mexicans and taco eating contests in brick buildings there.

Wow, those two paragraphs make no sense in relation to each other. Just like your posts! LOL!

Nah, those sound just as silly too. But I'd bet that any cities that do hold authentic taco eating contests are growing a lot faster than those that hold chicken wing contests. Yah, better idea to hold it a brick building. Wooden buildings tend to burn down more!

authentic taco eating contests? are those the ones where real immigrants are hand rolling tortillas on site?

Nah, they're the ones with the fat little old Mexican ladies frying them in Manteca...

mmm....

brought to you by the american masa harina association.

mmm... Champurrado.

I miss living in Texas at times, if only for the food!

Yeah, and they'll stand to lose more when real immigration reform is finally enacted.

Until then, I'm sure all the caucasian whites who make up a large portion of the said population loss will continue to flock to the south and west because there are more Mexicans and taco eating contests in brick buildings there.

Wow, those two paragraphs make no sense in relation to each other. Just like your posts! LOL!

On no, discussions about immigration, population, & economics have nothing at all to do with the growth or decline of cities like Buffalo!

I HATE TIME WARNER!!! Out since Friday, and everyday since they're GUARANTEED a technician will show up. Destroyed my weekend entirely.

Don't write checks that your mouth can't cash.

I never thought I may ever go satellite, but I may very well.

Ugh. Worst part is that I can't watch the Sabres.

Nope, what’s really critical to the future of cities like Buffalo are posts about how whole personal weekends of a single suburban resident have been destroyed when the cable goes down.

And when the cable goes down, it’s all the fault of Albany!

LOL!

Now.... speaking of tacos...Yer gunna want to go to Elmwood Taco and Sub for a really good taco (a great sub too). Now these are not Mexican style tacos. They are very unique to this place and I can't get enough of them. I recommend the Taco Supreme. It is at Elmwood and Delevan. For you suburban boys don't worry. That is not a bad neighborhood.

steel, I took your advice of hitting up ETS today after my morning classes at Buff State. really good tacos! (supremes, no less)
thanks for the tip.

Now.... speaking of tacos...Yer gunna want to go to Elmwood Taco and Sub for a really good taco (a great sub too). Now these are not Mexican style tacos. They are very unique to this place and I can't get enough of them. I recommend the Taco Supreme. It is at Elmwood and Delevan. For you suburban boys don't worry. That is not a bad neighborhood.

Aside from California & Texas, Chicago's become one of the best places to find real authentic Mexican tacos. Hundreds of good choices.

What has happened to Windows Live local? I can't find those great high detail air views anymore, just some extremely lame search engine that can't even find a basic address. Microsoft is really going down the drain!

Nope, what’s really critical to the future of cities like Buffalo are posts about how whole personal weekends of a single suburban resident have been destroyed when the cable goes down.

And when the cable goes down, it’s all the fault of Albany!

LOL!
There you go, just assuming I was blaming the cable company, which has only been here for 3+ months, for Buffalo's 50+ year decline. Nor would I blame my lack of service on Albany. Besides, taxes and fees are a really small percentage of a cable bill, when you look at it (only about 3% - I wish all my taxes could be so low, but look at the services it gets you). You're really picking at straws now, aren't you? Ya know, considering you went through the trouble of digging up a near weeks' old post just to make yourself look more like an idiot. Even your bootlick seems to have abandoned you lately. LOL!

This is a non-Development thread, after all. LOL! Imagine that! It has just as much to do with development as when someone is jetting off to Nashville or other locales, someone else is eating tacos, or someone else yet is giving Mexican immigrants blow jobs!

LOL! LOL! LOL!

Besides, I did make the best of it, went to my parents' and watched the game (lousy as it was), it was good enough for me anyways. Wherefor art thou, Verizon FiOS?

In addition (now this is off-topic and not dealing with immigrants, I hope you can handle it), they won't wreck this weekend. Taking the gf to go see Anderson Cooper at UB. I suppose I'll sit home all weekend if they offer to pay me double for the tickets, but otherwise... Of course if I don't have service restored by Saturday, I'll have disconnected my service anyways and ordered satellite or something, all the while saving $$$ in the process. $$$ for pizza, and the chicks for free! LOL!

Ya know, considering you went through the trouble of digging up a near weeks' old post....or someone else yet is giving Mexican immigrants blow jobs!



Oh don’t worry, didn’t take but a minute to dig that one up!

Too many of your posts seem more suited to a personal blog. “The daily life & personal musings of a suburban apartment complex dweller in West Seneca NY”. Not sure how many hits it would get. But you’re post whining about the terrible pain of being without cable TV really stood out. Gee, how did/do we ever manage without cable? Talk about non-Development! LOL!

Really, you sure seem to have a really big problem with Mexicans, don’t you? I guess you don’t like eating fresh produce? Guess who plants & picks most of it? Its par for the course that those who encounter the least (if any) real Mexicans are the usually the ones who are spouting off the dumbest, stereotypical comments about those they don’t know. Same with any minority group, African Americans, Latinos, Arabs etc.

Too bad for you. Mexicans are certainly the biggest & fastest-growing immigrant group. Just like in earlier times it was German, Irish, Polish, or Italian. They made big contributions to cities, as did African American migrants, & so too are today’s immigrants.

Maybe you’d like to go back to the 1950s. Of course, there were a lot less minorities & immigrants then, but no cable TV. It’s tough to be on the wrong side of history. Just ask the Confederates, the KKK, The Nazis (or the NeoNazis, who once tried to set up shop in Buffalo) or the Apartheid clique in South Africa. You’re running out of places to hide.

People have different perspectives on immigration policies & I certainly respect them. But it’s certainly a significant urban issue, whether it’s cities that may be attracting too many immigrants, or places like Buffalo, that aren’t attracting enough. Certainly doing a better job of spreading immigrants around should be high on the agenda of immigration reform.

I’m sure glad I like racial & ethnic diversity, the new “melting pot”, “mosaic”, whatever term one prefers. It’s only going to increase. If you don’t enjoy diversity, it’s really tough to like cities. That’s what this SSC forum is all about, tackling the challenges of cities!

Bayviews, please be so kind as to remind us where you live again. Are you in Buffalo? If not, what are your connections to Buffalo? If your family is here, in what part of the city are they? I don't think you should be so bold as to attack where other people live, and not even include a location in your own profile. On second thought, there's really no need to attack other members at all. Still, I'd be curious to know where you're from.

...make lemonade.

I've ordered satellite, and within a week or so I will ditch cable (which still doesn't work). Something I should have done a long time ago, what with cutting my bill nearly in half. :doh:

Oh don’t worry, didn’t take but a minute to dig that one up!

Too many of your posts seem more suited to a personal blog. “The daily life & personal musings of a suburban apartment complex dweller in West Seneca NY”. Not sure how many hits it would get. But you’re post whining about the terrible pain of being without cable TV really stood out. Gee, how did/do we ever manage without cable? Talk about non-Development! LOL!
It is non-development, and many others around here seem to "scratch their itch" on this thread (which is the intent, unless I'm mistaken).

Besides which, I've made out rather well with the cable, it's just the principle of the matter and paying for service with no return. Otherwise, we've been watching alot of movies, playing games, that sort of stuff. Not to mention going to bed earlier and being somewhat more awake come morning. Things that aren't bad by any stretch. Still though it leaves a void.

Oh, and I don't live in West Seneca. My grandparents do, and I often do my grocery shopping there. That's pretty much the extent of my affiliation, though.

As for hits, I don't think you can judge that. There's alot of goofy stuff out there that is way more popular than one would think it ought to be...

Really, you sure seem to have a really big problem with Mexicans, don’t you? I guess you don’t like eating fresh produce? Guess who plants & picks most of it?
The only thing I don't like about Mexicans is their food, the aftereffects of which I will agree do not need to be talked about, even in a non-development thread. I just get sick of hearing about them like they're some cure-all for all of a city's ills. If they were, and it was widely accepted as such, maybe some of those ballot initiatives in Arizona (a rapidly growing state thanks in part to Mexican immigrants) wouldn't have passed.

I don't have cable which means my bill is $0.00 :cheer:

Lucky you. My parents never had it, but I got hooked on it (particularly internet) when I was at school. Oh well.

Like an addiction it is. But at least I get to cut the cost nearly 40%, if only I could cut all my expenses so much.

Bayviews, do you spend time with the people you are always speaking of? the Mexicans, Somolians and whoever else?

As for Mexicans, if they come here LEGALLY, I don't care myself...they are hard working and strong willed people, unlike other groups as a whole. When someone runs the border, sneaks in or floats over on a raft they should be questioned and taken back to their country...if its a country like Mexico, they should be locked up just long enough to prevent them from running the border again and charge them with failure to yield for our national border.

legal migration is fine, as long as people do the paperwork and do everything correctly...when you are not born here on this soil it is not a right to be American, it then becomes a privilage. Do cities really need to rely on all these people? well they can increase the population, but if they are drawing down house values, not getting jobs or utilizing aspects of the social system...then they really don't help. Notice these things go for US citizens as well, but thats not the topic at hand.

:)

Bayviews, do you spend time with the people you are always speaking of? the Mexicans, Somolians and whoever else?

As for Mexicans, if they come here LEGALLY, I don't care myself...they are hard working and strong willed people, unlike other groups as a whole. When someone runs the border, sneaks in or floats over on a raft they should be questioned and taken back to their country...if its a country like Mexico, they should be locked up just long enough to prevent them from running the border again and charge them with failure to yield for our national border.

legal migration is fine, as long as people do the paperwork and do everything correctly...when you are not born here on this soil it is not a right to be American, it then becomes a privilage. Do cities really need to rely on all these people? well they can increase the population, but if they are drawing down house values, not getting jobs or utilizing aspects of the social system...then they really don't help. Notice these things go for US citizens as well, but thats not the topic at hand.

:)


Well our economy seems to be able to absorb all who are coming here. In Chicago the Mexican population increases house values...so that is certainly not a problem. I think maybe our immigration laws do not allow enough people to come in legally. Maybe the immigration numbers should be increased while the same time we aid Mexico in specific ways to improve their economy so that people do not need to come to the USA

Off Main Street (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061111/1000179.asp)
---------------------------------
The offbeat side of the news

Sour pierogies

Buffalo's selection as the official Pierogi Capital of the United States has left a bad taste in at least one also-ran city.

Folks in Pittsburgh are grumbling that they deserved to win the contest sponsored by Mrs. T's Pierogies.

For one thing, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette points out, the Pittsburgh Pirates hold a race during every home game among four people dressed as different pierogi flavors.

"If that's not pierogi passion, what is?" the paper asked in a front-page pierogi piece.

However, Dick Skrinjar, a spokesman for the Steel City mayor, takes things too far. "They can come down and eat pierogies and look at our [Super Bowl] trophy," he said.

Oh, snap! But do we really want to accept the wisdom of a city that burdened the nation with Terry Bradshaw and salads made with French fries?
I sense the next time the Bills and Steelers play, it'll be dubbed Pierogi Bowl I. :)

Never heard about the Pirates thing, but I still think I prefer the Milwaukee Brewers' Sausage races. One of whom you'll recall was beaten up by none other than Pirates first baseman Randall Simon (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0709/1578808.html) a few years back...

Well our economy seems to be able to absorb all who are coming here. In Chicago the Mexican population increases house values...so that is certainly not a problem. I think maybe our immigration laws do not allow enough people to come in legally. Maybe the immigration numbers should be increased while the same time we aid Mexico in specific ways to improve their economy so that people do not need to come to the USA

the only way to do that is invade them for having WMD's

lol, Aide is fine, but for so long the money and supplies we send are not reaching the people its intended for...so what then do we do?

I like the invasion idea myself. lol

Hey BuffCity - you ought to go out and get some skyline shots on a night like tonight (provided you don't mind risking catching a cold). I was coming back from UB and decided to take I-190 back through the old Breckenridge tolls just for the hell of it, and the misty drizzle in the air gave everything (and not just the buildings downtown) a really cool looking diffuse glow. I don't know how well a camera would catch it, but it was really neat looking.

yea, anything that puts anything in the air will make hell for a photo at night, to be honest..the best night photos are taken on clear crisp nights...no hunidity and no drizzle or moisture (leads to Noise) in the photos.

Not that I dont wanna, but exposing at 10-15 secs on a night like tonight will only give me poor results.

I have got some stuff before with the glows you are taling about...KeyBank Towers look good as well as anything neon, not as a whole it looks like shit.

The other night I had the chance to get the first ever view from a certain place, I elected not to shoot because the conditions happened to be so bad it woulda been a mess...knowing what I know now, its just easier to see that it will give you nothing.

good news is that winter is cold and crisp, so skylines are always a good move.

Rick Snowden has cancelled plans to sell his mansion and entertainment business. Guess he's staying put for a while.

I had heard a while back that he intended to stay in East Aurora on a horse ranch (or something) and collect antiques. Something for which living in EA is a good choice... I know he was interested in buying an old atlas from a guy I work with, actually. But now this sounds different entirely. This guy sounds like he needs to figure out what he's planning on doing!

Buff - that's what I figured. Didn't hurt to ask though!

I'm pretty sure his house sold and that by staying in the area he means East Aurora.
can anyone else confirm this?

Snowden Staying; Mansion & Strip Club Deal Off
Monday, November 13, 2006 06:47 AM - WBEN Newsroom

Buffalo, NY (WBEN) -Buffalo's most expensive residential real estate deal in recent history is off, and businessman Rick Snowden has cancelled plans to give up the Miller Mansion and the adult nightclub he owns in Cheektowaga.
...
Snowden tells WBEN that the properties are no longer on the market.
...

http://www.wben.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=06223

I wonder where that puts the project to upgrade the parking lot and construct a fence along Genesee St...

maybe this guy could put a nice strip joint on chippewa...or maybe he can't I dunno.

his house is nice.

From the SNews:

... Snowden cited the "slow pace" and "nonbusinesslike fashion" of the transaction, as well as concerns about how the residence would be cared for, in his decision to call off the deal.

"Things were moving very slowly, causing stress for my family and my employees," he said. "We didn't know if or when our kids would need to change schools. My businesses were being affected because of rumors we were closing. I made an executive decision to nix everything and stay put in a house I love and a business I know." ...

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061114/1049403.asp

Group urges closing bars at 2 a.m.

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
11/16/2006

A group of downtown Buffalo property owners is rekindling the idea of an earlier "last call" as a way to reduce bad behavior in the neighborhoods surrounding bars and nightclubs.
Buffalo Place board members Wednesday cited several gunfire incidents and other rowdy acts that have occurred recently at closing time, including early Sunday morning when gunfire erupted outside the Groove club in the 400 block of Pearl Street. They say that incident, and many other altercations, might have been prevented if city bars shut down at 2 a.m. rather than 4 a.m.

"Nothing good happens outside bars between 2 and 4 in the morning," said Buffalo Place Chairman Keith Belanger, who pointed to three recent episodes outside bars in which shots were fired.


A man was grazed by a bullet in Sunday's gunfire exchange on Pearl Street.

A 16-year-old boy was seriously wounded when he was shot in the head during another Pearl Street incident in late October.

In May, a man was shot and killed in violence related to a melee outside a concert at the former Tralf nightclub.

A series of shootings outside the former Sphere Entertainment Complex, now Town Ballroom in the 600 block of Main Street, in late 2004 and early 2005, had raised fears about escalating late-night violence downtown. Six people were wounded in the wee hours of New Year's Day 2005 when a crowd of clubgoers was hit by a spray of bullets.

And in recent months, confrontations between bar patrons and bouncers in the Chippewa Street Entertainment District also have raised concerns and calls for licensing bouncers, a measure that was passed by the Common Council Tuesday.

"I think this is emerging as an agenda item for us," said board member Howard Zemsky, who also supports an earlier closing time for bars. "The worst of this stuff seems to be happening late, late into the night."

The Buffalo Place board lacked a quorum, so no official action was taken on the idea at Wednesday's session, but there appeared to be consensus for the downtown panel to call on city and county officials to consider the change. Any amendment to close bars earlier would require action by the Erie County Legislature.

This is not the first time the notion of a 2 a.m. bar closing has been floated. In 2003, Buffalo Mayor Anthony M. Masiello pushed the idea, calling it a "quality-of-life" issue. The idea lost traction as bar owners fought the proposal, claiming it would cause economic hardship.

Peter Cutler, Mayor Byron W. Brown's communications director, acknowledged bar-related violence has been on an upswing but said the mayor is not ready to support an earlier closing time.

"We're very concerned about these incidents, but the problem is not as simple as how late bars should stay open," Cutler said. "Another critical element is making the owners of these establishments more responsible for the behavior of their patrons. We intend to hold them accountable."

The Brown administration has taken steps to beef up police patrols in the city's entertainment districts, called on bars to hire more private security, and begun reviewing permits at the drinking establishments with a history of trouble.


e-mail: slinstedt@buffnews.com

[B""Nothing good happens outside bars between 2 and 4 in the morning," said Buffalo Place Chairman Keith Belanger, who pointed to three recent episodes outside bars in which shots were fired.
I'm not convinced closing bars at 2am will directly change the crime problems. We would probably eventually setup after-hours clubs like other cities do for the 2-4am crowd anyway.

So some crime would merely shift back to 2am instead of 4am... and other crimes would go on as usual regardless.

i tend to believe that closing the bars at 2 would take the few law abiding citizens who are out that late off of the streets.

i could look at this two ways.

since there are even fewer law abiding people out the criminals will be more able to do as they please.

or...

since there will be even fewer law abiding people on the streets to be the victims, most of the victims will be criminals, so who cares if they kill each other.

It always seems to be the same place, or same "type" of place. Most of the gun violence happens at The Groove Nightclub, which is mainly a hip hop crowd, or at that overbooked hip hop show at the Tralf, or at that hip hop club (Was it Utopia?) that got shut down. Anyone notice anything that these places have in common?

yeah. I think the main reason for this push are the people that live nearby and don't like drunks wandering around at 4am... and in effect attracting more crime. Valid concern.

But the bigger picture for the city has to be kept in mind. We could lose all the business we get from Canadians if we close the same time they do.

Also, like I mentioned, as soon as the first "after hours" club opens up, it will negate any benefit from closing early. Every city I've been in that closes bars at 2am also has after-hours clubs open until 4 or 5am. They technically don't serve alcohol after 2, but depends on enforcement. And the after-hours clubs tend to attract a worse type of crowd.

It would be cool to get people to go out earlier though... like 9:30pm instead of 11:30. But I doubt that would happen.

Anyone notice anything that these places have in common?
Yes, they have that wonderful DIVERSITY that bayviews is always whining about.

For what it's worth Southwest Airlines will be adding a third daily non-stop roundtrip flight to Orlando beginning in March. This expansion bodes well for thecontinued passenger growth at BNIA.

Group urges closing bars at 2 a.m.

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
11/16/2006

A group of downtown Buffalo property owners is rekindling the idea of an earlier "last call" as a way to reduce bad behavior in the neighborhoods surrounding bars and nightclubs.
Buffalo Place board members Wednesday cited several gunfire incidents and other rowdy acts that have occurred recently at closing time, including early Sunday morning when gunfire erupted outside the Groove club in the 400 block of Pearl Street. They say that incident, and many other altercations, might have been prevented if city bars shut down at 2 a.m. rather than 4 a.m.

"Nothing good happens outside bars between 2 and 4 in the morning," said Buffalo Place Chairman Keith Belanger, who pointed to three recent episodes outside bars in which shots were fired.


A man was grazed by a bullet in Sunday's gunfire exchange on Pearl Street.

A 16-year-old boy was seriously wounded when he was shot in the head during another Pearl Street incident in late October.

In May, a man was shot and killed in violence related to a melee outside a concert at the former Tralf nightclub.

A series of shootings outside the former Sphere Entertainment Complex, now Town Ballroom in the 600 block of Main Street, in late 2004 and early 2005, had raised fears about escalating late-night violence downtown. Six people were wounded in the wee hours of New Year's Day 2005 when a crowd of clubgoers was hit by a spray of bullets.

And in recent months, confrontations between bar patrons and bouncers in the Chippewa Street Entertainment District also have raised concerns and calls for licensing bouncers, a measure that was passed by the Common Council Tuesday.

"I think this is emerging as an agenda item for us," said board member Howard Zemsky, who also supports an earlier closing time for bars. "The worst of this stuff seems to be happening late, late into the night."

The Buffalo Place board lacked a quorum, so no official action was taken on the idea at Wednesday's session, but there appeared to be consensus for the downtown panel to call on city and county officials to consider the change. Any amendment to close bars earlier would require action by the Erie County Legislature.

This is not the first time the notion of a 2 a.m. bar closing has been floated. In 2003, Buffalo Mayor Anthony M. Masiello pushed the idea, calling it a "quality-of-life" issue. The idea lost traction as bar owners fought the proposal, claiming it would cause economic hardship.

Peter Cutler, Mayor Byron W. Brown's communications director, acknowledged bar-related violence has been on an upswing but said the mayor is not ready to support an earlier closing time.

"We're very concerned about these incidents, but the problem is not as simple as how late bars should stay open," Cutler said. "Another critical element is making the owners of these establishments more responsible for the behavior of their patrons. We intend to hold them accountable."

The Brown administration has taken steps to beef up police patrols in the city's entertainment districts, called on bars to hire more private security, and begun reviewing permits at the drinking establishments with a history of trouble.


e-mail: slinstedt@buffnews.com

What was a 16 year old doing out in the streets at 4 AM?

What was a 16 year old doing out in the streets at 4 AM?

Where does the article say the 16 year old was shot at 4am? If memory serves, I believe he was actually shot during daylight hours, they made a big deal out of it on the news. Correction: it happened at 10:35pm. So I fail to see how moving the closing hours from 4 to 2 would make a difference.

^^ 5th paragraph. I read it online.

Now, I'm no clubber and I honestly couldn't care less what they do. However, this smacks of being a knee-jerk reaction.

How about the police getting over how poorly they're treated and actually doing their jobs? Besides living off parking enforcement. Or something else proactive.

^^ 5th paragraph. I read it online.



Actually that is not true it happened at 10:35PM here is the extract from the Buffalo News Archive:

Article 43 of 423 found.
Published on October 21, 2006

807 words



>Man chased, gunned down in heart of Theater District

A man was chased down and shot in the head by three attackers in the heart of the Theater District late Friday.

Police described the man's condition as "very, very serious." Three suspects were arrested a short time later.

Homicide investigators converged on the 400 block of Pearl Street in response to a report that eight shots were fired about 10:35 p.m. in the parking lot of the...

To see the rest of the article you must pay the news. Since it actually happened at 10:35pm, I fail to see how moving the closing hours from 4 to 2 would make a difference.

Well, whenever it happened, that's what it says in the online edition. That's all I'm saying.

Now let's not suggest that the media is lying, now...:nono:

Maybe the police should concern themselves with patrolling that Pearl Street neighborhood at any hour of the day. From the articles posted, it seems to be a more dangerous spot in general.

yeah. I think the main reason for this push are the people that live nearby and don't like drunks wandering around at 4am... and in effect attracting more crime. Valid concern.

Hmm, I don't know about that. I live about 1/2 block off Chippewa Street, and I don't have any problems with drunks from the strip wandering down my street. And my friends and neighbors on my street don't have any problems with them either...at least the people I know. I think that we accept the people who party down on Chippewa as part of our urban environment. We're the ones who chose to live in the city. It is pretty routine on Saturday and Sunday mornings, I'll find beer bottles or Jim's Steak Out wrappers on the sidewalk in front of my house, or along the curb. But I just pick it up-no big deal. We would much prefer that to having a completely abandoned downtown neighborhood which would be more dangerous (and depressing). Personally, I lived in NYC for 8 years (in the East Village) so I love hearing noise from the crowds and activity just a couple blocks away. It's really not that bad.

One exception though...that side yard of Hutch Tech High School can be a little dangerous. I got mugged there once when I was walking home drunk after too much wine at Bacchus. There were four guys who kind of came out of the shadows and took my wallet. And my next-door neighbor had a similar situation about a month later. Except he refused to give it to them, and they pulled a gun out. So you do have to use some caution. But I sort of take some responsibility, because if I hadn't made myself such an obvious target, I wouldn't have found myself in that situation. The reality is that this is still a city, and you still have to keep your wits about you and your guard at least slightly up when walking around at night (especially when drunk).

:dunno: Well, whenever it happened, that's what it says in the online edition. That's all I'm saying.

Now let's not suggest that the media is lying, now...:nono:


Here is the entire fifth paragraph from the online edition, I just don't see the 4 am reference?:dunno:

"A 16-year-old boy was seriously wounded when he was shot in the head during another Pearl Street incident in late October. "

Ehh, so it didn't. So you can see how much I care. Besides which, I'm not the one who said it did.

Frankly, I don't see how the time of day matters. Crime is crime and should not be more appalling at any particular time versus another. But I know your angle in sticking with this piece of minutae; maybe you should just stay in the crime-free utopia that is Niagara County and leave the crime-ridden cesspools to Erie County residents, capice?

For what it's worth Southwest Airlines will be adding a third daily non-stop roundtrip flight to Orlando beginning in March. This expansion bodes well for thecontinued passenger growth at BNIA.

Damnit, when is the non-stop from BUF to BNA going to start? BNA is a large focus city (hub) for SWA.

Damnit, when is the non-stop from BUF to BNA going to start? BNA is a large focus city (hub) for SWA.


MDW is non stop:baeh3:

Damnit, when is the non-stop from BUF to BNA going to start? BNA is a large focus city (hub) for SWA.

What airport is BNA?

I only know BUF, LAX, JFK...and thats about it haha

BNA is Nashville. Pretty nice airport, but not as modern as BUF. Serves 10 million people though...

I connect at MDW on Monday...

My gf's idiot boss always drives up to YYZ to fly out, claims it's far cheaper than BUF.

Am I mistaken, is Toronto the most expensive airport in NA?

Amazing what stupid things people will do to back up their negative attitude.

Someone actually WANTS to fly from Pearson?! OMFG!

That is INSANE.

SO many Canucks use Buffalo because we have the golden jewel of Southwest - most of the time my flights are mostly filled with Canadians!

I once priced BNA-YYZ for my mom to come visit me in Toronto -- $204 each way was the cheapest for non-stop flights on Air Canada, while BNA-BUF was $59 on Southwest. I'm paying $54 each way when I leave Monday to go see my Momma.

well I remember the days when Buffalo was among the most expensive airports to fly out of and had to fly out of Pittsburgh or Cleveland...that was of course before the "low cost" airlines came. I only fly out of Toronto for international flights, nice airport they have there.

Southwest freed the Northeast from the tyranny of USELESS Airways.

Ehh, so it didn't. So you can see how much I care. Besides which, I'm not the one who said it did.

Frankly, I don't see how the time of day matters. Crime is crime and should not be more appalling at any particular time versus another. But I know your angle in sticking with this piece of minutae; maybe you should just stay in the crime-free utopia that is Niagara County and leave the crime-ridden cesspools to Erie County residents, capice?

No apparently you do not know my angle at all. unlike most of the provincial types on this site that act as if anything outside of the west side or downtown does not matter, I like most non-city residents consider myself a western new yorker and have a broader view of the area than do most city of buffalo or erie county residents. MY angle is that over the past ten years downtown Buffalo through the theatre district and chippewa has shed a lot of it's negative crime image in the eyes of the average non city resident. What I fear is that this large upsurge in crime is very very quickly erasing that newer image and replacing it with the old crime infested image. I work almost entirely with suburbanites and the change in attitude is happening. If it's happening among the people I know then you can be sure it is also happening among thousands of others, The city needs to take agressive action to nip this trend and new perception in the bud. Denial is not the answer, aggressive control of the problem is. Personally I think changing the closing time to 2 from 4 will have no effect. The fact that the crime I highlighted happened at 10:30pm is proof that the bar closing time is not the problem, thus changing it is not the answer. The only reason a time change is being considered is because it is an easy way for the politicians to make it look like they are doing something. There needs to be a zero tolerance policy and agressive police patrols to deal with the issue before it starts to really hurt the businesses located in that area.

Maseillo tried to change the closing time from 4am to 2am about 3 summers ago...didn't wind up happening of course. I think the reasoning back then was to save Police overtime costs.

Yes, they have that wonderful DIVERSITY that bayviews is always whining about.

Really now, neither bayviews (who has never once blasted out any profanity-filled praises to hip-hop here!) nor diversity (aside from the reality that mostly suburban white kids have now become the biggest consumers of rap!) has any connection whatsoever to drunken idiots shooting each other outside late night and/or after hours downtown Buffalo nightspots.

However, certainly agree with you that this serious problem should be tackled.

What I think Jerome was getting at, and I have to agree, however politically incorrect it may be, is that this is mostly black on black crimes. White kids in places like the ones in Teacup Falls, North Dakota might be buying most of the hip hop and rap music at Walmart stores across the country. But they are not the ones doing the shooting. Have you ever been to the Groove? Have you ever been past there at 3:00 AM? It looks like a gangsta convention. I have walked through there, and the energy from that group is very hostile. Buffalo is suffering right now from gang violence, and those gangs are, for the most part, black and hispanic kids. When you hear about this gun violence, it is usually not random, but focussed on that kind of activity. So unless you're dealing on someone else's turf, I doubt you have much to fear.

I work almost entirely with suburbanites and the change in attitude is happening.
Yeah. It's not like those suburbanites have to worry about dangerous things like serial rapist-murders on the loose in their backyards or anything.

oh wait...

Someone actually WANTS to fly from Pearson?! OMFG!

That is INSANE.

SO many Canucks use Buffalo because we have the golden jewel of Southwest - most of the time my flights are mostly filled with Canadians!

I once priced BNA-YYZ for my mom to come visit me in Toronto -- $204 each way was the cheapest for non-stop flights on Air Canada, while BNA-BUF was $59 on Southwest. I'm paying $54 each way when I leave Monday to go see my Momma.
He INSISTS that Buffalo is among the most expensive airports in the country, another reason as to why he sees this as the worst place in the country to live. (Despite the fact that he's a lawyer who's lived here his whole life and made all his money on Worker's Comp litigation.) But trying to explain reason to him... well let's leave it at saying that you'd have an easier time trying to convince a brick wall not to jump off a bridge.

No apparently you do not know my angle at all...
Valid points, just don't go about being the pot calling the kettle black about the "provincial"-ness of residents like you're all high and mighty. If I recall your debate contributed to the trashing of the NFNY thread, to which several other forumers apologized.

What I think Jerome was getting at, and I have to agree, however politically incorrect it may be, is that this is mostly black on black crimes. White kids in places like the ones in Teacup Falls, North Dakota might be buying most of the hip hop and rap music at Walmart stores across the country. But they are not the ones doing the shooting. Have you ever been to the Groove? Have you ever been past there at 3:00 AM? It looks like a gangsta convention. I have walked through there, and the energy from that group is very hostile. Buffalo is suffering right now from gang violence, and those gangs are, for the most part, black and hispanic kids. When you hear about this gun violence, it is usually not random, but focussed on that kind of activity. So unless you're dealing on someone else's turf, I doubt you have much to fear.

Really, whatever your color or theirs, you can’t expect that any big youthful congregation that you encounter at 3 AM outside any nightspot (particularly hip-hop) in any city that has been clubbing, drinking (& maybe drug-crazed at that) is going to be particularly friendly! At that ungodly hour & in that situation you really have to be careful, whatever your race!

One question I’d pose is does Buffalo’s quality of life really benefit by maintaining such late hours for drinking establishments? Many other cities manage a more vibrant, multi-dimensional (more than getting drunk, maybe not even drinking) nightlife scene even with much earlier closing times than Buffalo. Also they offer more interesting activities & places for the younger crowd generally, That’s why I’m always suggesting more in the way of cultural venues (like Rochester’s planned Renaissance Square) maybe a new shopping center downtown (as in Providence, there's hardly anything left at Main Place) and some fun educational things (like Hartford’s new tech & science museum) so there is also “daylife”.

You are right, blacks killing blacks (mostly those they know) comprises the bulk of the homicide toll in many cities. In that respect, Buffalo’s not much different from Baltimore, Rochester, Cleveland, Milwaukee, St. Louis, & other cities that also suffer from high levels of segregation, poverty, violent crime, & haven’t attracted many new immigrants to help revitalize neighborhoods.

Indeed, many of the same cities that have become the most racially & ethnically diverse have also had the most success in homicide reduction. Oakland managed a big reduction in homicides during the 1990s, although it’s risen again over the past several years. Boston has had a remarkably successful community-based program focused on youth that cut homicides that had peaked at around 150 to as low as 30. NYC cut homicides that had peaked at around two thousand annually by more than two-thirds, to about 600. As you know, NYC, where blacks, Latinos, & other minorities comprise two-thirds of the residents, & which has millions of new immigrants, is arguably the most diverse city anywhere in the world. Oakland, Boston, & NYC these are also cities that have been more successful in moving significant numbers of African Americans up into the middle-class.

Toronto, another city that has attracted huge numbers of immigrants, has become much more diverse than Buffalo & has grown to many times the population, averages about as many homicides as Buffalo will probably suffer this year. Of course, Canada’s much more sensible gun laws helps keep Toronto’s murder toll down too.

There are no “quick fixes” for curbing the killing & violence. But lets not blame homicides & crime on diversity, when in many cities, it has actually helped to reduce or minimize it.

Yeah. It's not like those suburbanites have to worry about dangerous things like serial rapist-murders on the loose in their backyards or anything.

oh wait...

They don't have to worry about some freaked out kid blowing away half the school either

ohh wait....

Yeah. It's not like those suburbanites have to worry about dangerous things like serial rapist-murders on the loose in their backyards or anything.

oh wait...

That does not matter because in the end neither the theatre nor Chiipewa districts can survive without suburban dollars. The perception is their rality whether it is based upon facts or just opinion. Now the opinion is starting to shift towards downtown as becoming more unsafe. You can try to refute it until you are blue in the face but once the perception takes hold in the suburbs the money into the city will dry up and businesses will fail. That is why it is important that the city take steps to nip this in the bud. If the city cannot keep four or five blocks of it's area safe, even if it is only to help it's image in the eyes of the people with money to spend, than the city's government is useless and the city deserves to be the rat hole much of it already is.

You know suburbanites who had a positive impression of the city?!?!?

Jerome, possibly you're too young to remember but back in the early 90's when the Chippewa bars were starting to be cool, it was still a dump, and there was crime.

It wasn't the neon disneyland assclown magnet that it is today. But it was very popular. The grunge of the city was part of the attraction actually. In fact, the types of people that used to go there STOPPED going there a long time ago when it got all cleaned up and taken over by puking sorority sluts from Long Island spending daddy's cash.

My point is that if the frat boys get scared by the perception of crime, then fine. Other people will happily take their place and reclaim Chippewa.

Not everyone that drinks downtown or enjoys the city is so overly sensitive to news reports that don't even match reality.

BTW, a couple years ago there were several shooting incidents outside Sphere (now Town Ballroom). The Snews kept saying how it would scare people away from downtown.

It didn't

That does not matter because in the end neither the theatre nor Chiipewa districts can survive without suburban dollars. The perception is their rality whether it is based upon facts or just opinion. Now the opinion is starting to shift towards downtown as becoming more unsafe. You can try to refute it until you are blue in the face but once the perception takes hold in the suburbs the money into the city will dry up and businesses will fail. That is why it is important that the city take steps to nip this in the bud. If the city cannot keep four or five blocks of it's area safe, even if it is only to help it's image in the eyes of the people with money to spend, than the city's government is useless and the city deserves to be the rat hole much of it already is.

Isn't there a new subdivision or something going in to get excited about?

You know, im so sick and tired of reading about how the cities hard times are caused by people who live in the suburbs. We didnt elect your city officials. You did. Get over it already. The downfall of the city of Buffalo has little or nothing to do with people who live in the suburbs. Also, I would say based on the people I know, that the "fear" of the city is no greater among "suburbanites" than it is among people who actually live there. Every city on the planet has suburbs.

You know, it's snowing. Ewww.

Glad I'm going to le Nash today.

steel, how's the weather over your way?

You know, im so sick and tired of reading about how the cities hard times are caused by people who live in the suburbs. We didnt elect your city officials. You did. Get over it already. The downfall of the city of Buffalo has little or nothing to do with people who live in the suburbs. Also, I would say based on the people I know, that the "fear" of the city is no greater among "suburbanites" than it is among people who actually live there. Every city on the planet has suburbs.

Wow Jimi C what rock in Amherst do you live under?

The city's decline has everything to do with the suburbs. What do you think happens when a majority of the population abandons the city, takes with it all the wealth and jobs and leaves behind the poor. What happens when that suburban population demands government subsidies for massive road building to fuel its growth while leaving the city to crumble. What happens when suburban absentee landlords suck the money out of property and don't invest anything back in.

That smug suburban attitude you exhibit is so offensive. Funny thing....there was a recent wave of tagging in the city. Turns out is was a couple of asshole suburban guys doing it. Take your holier than thou attitude and shove it. We need people interested in solving the inner city problems that were created by our society as a whole. They won't be solved until the society takes responsibility. :ohno:

You know, it's snowing. Ewww.

Glad I'm going to le Nash today.

steel, how's the weather over your way?


medium cold bland with touches of sun

You know, it's snowing. Ewww.

Glad I'm going to le Nash today.

steel, how's the weather over your way?

Yeah, but the weather is going to be warming up a bit beginning tomorrow. Well, if you can count nearly 50 degrees and sunny a warm up.

About blaming the city's problems on the residents of the suburbs. It seems to me that the burbs are largely populated by people who were raised in the city. At least half of the people in my office in downtown Buffalo live in the suburbs and always talk about when they were kids growing up on the West Side. Their only blame is that they (or their parents) abandoned the city. And you can't really blame them for making a choice that is more suited to their preferences. I think it's important for them to remember, however, that Buffalo is the center of the metropolitan area. When you are anywhere besides Western New York State, most people won't know where Clarence Center, NY is. When they ask, you have to tell them "near Buffalo." If the city isn't healthy, it affects everyone. On the other hand, places like Clarence Center, Eden, Elma, etc. could fall off the face of the Earth and no one would give a shit. Well, maybe not "no one" but it would have a far less impact on the area as a whole.

You know, im so sick and tired of reading about how the cities hard times are caused by people who live in the suburbs.
The only reason it came up is because someone posted that downtown will become a "rat hole" if dandy suburbanites become too afraid of city crime that doesn't even exist.

Actually, now that I look back, he wrote that it already is a Rat Hole downtown, so if that's the case I guess there's nothing to worry about.

Is Rick Snowden's place up for sale AGAIN. That guy needs to make up his mind. Maybe he really is going to East Aurora after all.

Anyway, who on this board has $3 million burning a hole in their pocket? :)

I sure don't!

It probably costs $3 million a year just to heat the place!!

If he is wobbling again, my bet is he'll end up in either Blasdell or Orchard Park. Think about it: Buffalo -> Las Vegas -> Buffalo -> East Aurora -> Buffalo -> ??. It's converging very rapidly.

Or maybe he and his wealth will just collapse under it's own weight like a neutron star, and form a black hole. Time will tell, huh?

That would be a cool tourist attraction, and solve our prison overcrowding problems all in one fell swoop.

Wow Jimi C what rock in Amherst do you live under?

The city's decline has everything to do with the suburbs. What do you think happens when a majority of the population abandons the city, takes with it all the wealth and jobs and leaves behind the poor. What happens when that suburban population demands government subsidies for massive road building to fuel its growth while leaving the city to crumble. What happens when suburban absentee landlords suck the money out of property and don't invest anything back in.

That smug suburban attitude you exhibit is so offensive. Funny thing....there was a recent wave of tagging in the city. Turns out is was a couple of asshole suburban guys doing it. Take your holier than thou attitude and shove it.

Your kidding me right? smug suburban attitude? People who live in the suburbs are treated like garbage on this forum. Everytime I see the word suburbanite its written in a derogatory fashion. I live in the city of Tonawanda. Hardly fucking amherst. I live in a $30,000 house. The City of Tonawanda is able to manage itself. We have crime we have all the problems Buffalo does, just on a smaller scale. If anything its the city residents that act smug and superior to everyone, and, funny thing. They are the ones who do the majority of the bitching and complaining. I'm all for the city. I work in the city, Im there everyday. I take abosolutly zero responsibility for what your elected officials have done to Buffalo over the past 50 years.

Half a million people didnt leave the city overnight buddy. People leaving the city is the effect not the cause.

"wave of tagging">? on noes! My fault, pm me your address, ill send you some orange glow.

That dosnt really compare to what happend at Canal fest a few years ago when 2 city residents shot 2 suburban teenagers.

Smug suburban attitude.. ugh.

We need people interested in solving the inner city problems that were created by our society as a whole. They won't be solved until the society takes responsibility. :ohno

Theres poor people in suburbs too you dolt.

The past 50 years of city decline has been based on our societal trend to subsidize suburban living over city living. It has little of nothing to do with the elected officials in the city.

The people of the city could have elected friggin geniuses for 50 years and the results would be the same. One of the first suburbanization programs in the US was the GI Bill after WWII. It offered cheap mortgages to returning GI's....only catch was that you could only use the money to buy a new house!....Hmmmmm...Seems you could only buy new houses in the burbs. At the same time the government determined that poor people should only live in the city so they proceeded to build public housing projects inside the city in high concentrations. All the problems of highly concentrated poverty soon spread to the surrounding neighborhoods causing more people to leave the city. The government then proceeded to spend billions cutting highways through the cities neighborhood and parks making them less attractive while also making it easier to live further out form downtown. Are you getting the pattern here Jimi?

Your holier than thou attitude that people in the city are stupid and corrupt is offensive. People in the suburbs have their comfortable little republican lives because they have arranged for the government to keep all the poor people in the city where they can pretend it is some one else's problem to solve and pretend that they are much more moral than the evil city people.

Soooo guys, how about a combined city/county unigov like we have here in Nashville ? I see we're all cooperating and working together so well :D

Wow, I didn't know a Tonawanda-Chicago pissing match was a scientific indicator of attitudes across Buffalo-Niagara as a whole.

Learn something new every day, don't we.

That being said, I don't think a single government is the proper solution anymore. It would essentially be another form of county government, and we see how well that works here. I actually like the idea of leaner, small juridictions with little to no service overlap. Keeps the units small and manageable ("close to home") and introduces local competition. In other words, eliminate the county. Works well enough in NH. As a disclaimer, I would add that certain annexations need to be made.

Soooo guys, how about a combined city/county unigov like we have here in Nashville ? I see we're all cooperating and working together so well :D


Unigovs have some merrit but they don't eliminate sprawl which is a very destruictive force in American urban design. As a matter of fact the unigove cities are some of the most sprawly of cities


By the way Tanawanda came within an inch of being absorbed into Buffalo back in the 20's. It was defeated by some early NIMBY's

Point taken, but I don't believe that hundreds of thousands of people will be flocking to the Buffalo-Niagara metro for the foreseeable future... so I seriously doubt we would have to worry about the side effect of new sprawl ;)

You don't need New people to have sprawl. I think we've proven that in WNY.

Jerome, possibly you're too young to remember but back in the early 90's when the Chippewa bars were starting to be cool, it was still a dump, and there was crime.
I am well, well over 40, I remember the area before the downfall hit full stride and I se what has happened. In the early 90's there was Prima Pizza, and a couple of dives the rest was boarded up.


My point is that if the frat boys get scared by the perception of crime, then fine. Other people will happily take their place and reclaim Chippewa.
They won't

It didn'tAccording to owners intervied in the News in May, It did.

You don't need New people to have sprawl. I think we've proven that in WNY.
Buffalo is one of the least sprawaling metro's in the USA, it has the 16th highest population density for any of the top 75 largest metros in the USA so to say it has a sprawl problen is simply incorrect.

Your kidding me right? smug suburban attitude? People who live in the suburbs are treated like garbage on this forum.
You must understand that the people left within Buffalo are among the most provincial people in the country. That smugness is merely a false bravado.

You know suburbanites who had a positive impression of the city?!?!?

Most suburbanites I know did not stay away from the city in the past because of crime, they stayed away because of it being a depressed rundown shithole. Now crime is starting to become more of an issue because it is no longer relegated to areas suburbanites frequent instead it is in the theatre district and even by the main library - in daylight no less. If you live in the burbs you have to ask yourself why bother. Go to Buffalo - one of the most dangerouse cities or attend a concert at UB Amherst the safest community of over 100,000 in the country.

I don't believe that hundreds of thousands of people will be flocking to the Buffalo-Niagara metro for the foreseeable future... so I seriously doubt we would have to worry about the side effect of new sprawl ;)

I don't think you can safely assume that Buffalo's population trends might be turning around in the foreseeable future. Probably 5 or 10 years ago, that would have been OK, but given all the develpment, I think Buffalo is turning a corner. If these projects start to snowball, and it seems like that's what they're doing, then I could see the population moving in a positive direction. It would be nice to see some more jobs being added, along with all this new construction, but I see that coming in slowly as well. As someone posted in the BRO blog, with the Statler Tower, New Era Cap, and Dulski rennovations; the newly built Healthnow Headquarters; and the soon to be built Federal Courthouse, there are several million dollars being invested in bringing in new jobs and new residents all within a few blocks of each other. That's just the west side of downtown near the West Village! And, don't forget that the Niagara Center was just completed a couple of years ago. Someone said on BRO that it's starting to be easier to believe that Issa's new tower will actually get built afterall, since this area is undergoing a major transformation. All these new buildings are going to need construction crews and then continued maintenance. The buildings alone will create new jobs. And we have made great strides in attracting other companies too.

You must understand that the people left within Buffalo are among the most provincial people in the country. That smugness is merely a false bravado.
I suppose you think there's an imaginary line separating you from the "provincial people of buffalo"..

Actually, isn't that kind of pissing contest against a neighboring city just what a provincial person would do?

I don't think you can safely assume that Buffalo's population trends might be turning around in the foreseeable future. Probably 5 or 10 years ago, that would have been OK, but given all the develpment, I think Buffalo is turning a corner. If these projects start to snowball, and it seems like that's what they're doing, then I could see the population moving in a positive direction. It would be nice to see some more jobs being added, along with all this new construction, but I see that coming in slowly as well. As someone posted in the BRO blog, with the Statler Tower, New Era Cap, and Dulski rennovations; the newly built Healthnow Headquarters; and the soon to be built Federal Courthouse, there are several million dollars being invested in bringing in new jobs and new residents all within a few blocks of each other. That's just the west side of downtown near the West Village! And, don't forget that the Niagara Center was just completed a couple of years ago. Someone said on BRO that it's starting to be easier to believe that Issa's new tower will actually get built afterall, since this area is undergoing a major transformation. All these new buildings are going to need construction crews and then continued maintenance. The buildings alone will create new jobs. And we have made great strides in attracting other companies too.

Yes, things are picking up or Buffalo, but what is considered a boom in Buffalo is, well... just normal in other cities. A "Healthnow" Building would be a drop in the bucket here in Nashville (or any other comparable city that's healthy).

As for the population decline, I just don't see the region adding 100,000+ people every decade. The census has indicated that the bleed is actually increading. If (and if) the population were to rebound and the census is incorrect, I say we would add only about 20,000-30,000 new residents to the metro every decade. Just for comparison, the Nashville MSA added 34,000 new residents... last year. The population has leaped from 1,231,311 in 2000 to 1,449,962 in 2005. If only we could see this growth in the BUF!

We also need to work on attracting companies without major incentives as well... and NO MORE call centers or debt collection agencies!

*Note, I'm saying Nashville because I'm here right now, but this could apply to any city.

Yes, things are picking up or Buffalo, but what is considered a boom in Buffalo is, well... just normal in other cities. A "Healthnow" Building would be a drop in the bucket here in Nashville (or any other comparable city that's healthy).

It's kind of stupid and pointless to diminish Buffalo's gains by saying that it would be nothing if it happened anywhere else. I don't believe that's true, and even if it was true, it's kind of pointless. Besides, I agree that adding a "Healthnow Building" alone does not constitute a "boom" as you say. If you read what I wrote, I indicated that a Healthow Building is only one part of a movement in one particular neighborhood. And I cited about a half dozen multimillion dollar projects within a few blocks of each other. That would not go unnoticed in any city, not even such a paradise as Nashville, Tennessee.

we would add only about 20,000-30,000 new residents to the metro every decade. Just for comparison, the Nashville MSA added 34,000 new residents... last year. The population has leaped from 1,231,311 in 2000 to 1,449,962 in 2005. If only we could see this growth in the BUF!

I would hate to see that kind of population growth in the BUF! I wouldn't really appreciate sitting in traffic on the outbound 33 on my way to the airport, or have to leave for work an hour before I need to be there. I don't like having to pre-order my movie tickets to ensure that I can get a seat at any ordinary movie, or at least get a seat next to my friends. I don't like being a nameless faceless customer at a restaurant that I go to every week because the restaurant could care less if I eat there or not. I don't like knowing that wherever I go, I am considered replaceable because population is booming and there are more than enough people happy, and in fact eager, to take my place. That's what I had for 8 years living in NYC's East Village. People in Buffalo don't know how good they have it when they can be at work in 15 minutes, or at the airport in about the same time. It is a luxury to go to a film and have just a few other couples in the theater with you. You can usually get last-minute tickets at reasonable prices to many of our venues in the Theater District. There is a lot to be said about the quality of life in a city our size...a lot. So I am not so envious of those cities you're always comparing Buffalo to as if we're somehow less successful or less appealing because we don't have a flood of people coming in. Now, all that being said (and I do apologize for the rant. LOL) I wouldn't mind seeing the population decline slowing down, or even turning around just ever so slightly. Ten or twenty thousand more in the next ten years sounds mighty nice to me. ;)

Would you really want to add 30,000 per year for the next ten years? Be careful what you wish for. Uh, or maybe just move to a city that's already overpopulated and be happy. :)

I wasn't diminishing Buffalo's gains at all -- but while people think the city is doing well (and it is compared to how it had been doing previously) it's not much compared to other places. Well, different strokes for different folks, I suppose ;)

It also doesn't take me 20 minutes to get to work... that's a Buffalo myth! Of course, it's not really due to heavy traffic volume, but because our interchanges and entrance ramps are so horribly outdated that it doesn't bode well for merging traffic.

As for population gains, I'd like to see about 100k per decade.

Just let it go. DallasTexan is clearly PMS-ing again. Negative comments on all the buffalo boards today.

Too many good-news posts about buffalo seem to set him off.

OK, DT, I'm cool with agreeing to disagree on that point. (But I can get to work in 12 minutes, and home in 7 because it's easy to grab the I-190 in one direction and easier to use surface streets in the other.)

I agree. I don't want to live in a rapidly growing area, for numerous reasons. I'd be happy simply with stabilization and slow steady growth. 100,000k + people a decade? For what? Endlessly repeating sprawl in all directions for 50 miles outside the central core? They're not all going to live in the city or in an urban environment, even if it was physically possible! I don't think the Kowloon lifestyle appeals to Americans (or many others for that matter).

I also honestly don't give half a shit what other cities consider to be "development". If I cared so much, well, it would stand to reason I'd be living in one of them. Concord is one of the fastest growing "cities" in NH. Not all of it was good. In fact I'd say very little of it was. In that case, it has hardly even added to the commercial sprawl!

As for the argument that Buffalo, and Upstate in general, is not heavily sprawled, yes, I'd agree. However. On a basis of population, in Buffalo for example (and I'd imagine Rochester is fairly close), a very large percentage of the metro population lives in the suburbs. Maybe that's the same in larger cities, I don't know. But a 5:1 (+/-) ratio is pathetic. Now we're not Detroit on this category (which I believe has the highest ratio?), thankfully, but that's nothing to be proud of. I bet you the population densities of Tonawanda and Cheektowaga are beginning to rival that of Buffalo's. Maybe it's still high, but let's recall how crazy high it used to be. You could argue (and I would certainly agree) that it would have dropped substantially in any economic climate simply due to lifestyles, but we started from a very high point and therefore saying we're still higher than many other areas is moot to me. There's no real basis for comparison.

Sprawl Without Growth: The Upstate Paradox (http://www.brookings.edu/es/urban/publications/200310_pendall.htm)
Findings

An analysis of growth and development trends and population in Upstate New York finds that:

Despite slow population growth, 425,000 acres of Upstate New York were urbanized between 1982 and 1997, resulting in urban sprawl in the form of declining density. The total amount of urbanized land in Upstate grew by 30 percent between 1982 and 1997, while its population grew by only 2.6 percent, reducing the density of the built environment by 21 percent.

Compared with other Upstate regions, Western New York sprawled less between 1982 and 1997, and Central New York sprawled more. All Upstate regions have falling population density, but Western New York's density dropped only 16 percent between 1982 and 1997. Meanwhile, Central New York—which includes Syracuse, Utica/Rome, and surrounding counties—urbanized over 100,000 acres even though it lost 6,500 residents, resulting in a 32 percent decline in its density.

People, jobs, and businesses are leaving cities and villages and moving to towns. Upstate cities lost over 40,000 households in the 1990s alone, while unincorporated town areas gained over 160,000 households; businesses have also disappeared from cities while growing in towns.

Sprawl hits Upstate cities hard. City tax bases fell in the 1990s, vacant housing increased, and home ownership slipped. Towns remained comparatively prosperous.

Continued decentralization of people and jobs away from Upstate New York's cities and villages is undermining the economic health and quality of life of the region. State and local leaders need to understand that these trends are not inevitable. Explicit state reforms in fiscal policy, annexation laws, and planning can go a long way toward fostering a better future for Upstate New York.

"Your holier than thou attitude that people in the city are stupid and corrupt is offensive. People in the suburbs have their comfortable little republican lives"

You dont know me, you dont know my friends, you dont know my family, you are obviously totally ignorant to what the suburbs, the Kenmore and the Tonawandas especially, actually are like. There are very many low income familys in the city of Tonawanda. Take my word for it. Or, you can drive through the Tonawanda Proj and the neighborhoods around Niawanda park and see for yourself.
I dont recall ever saying anything close to what you implied. I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to put words in my mouth. Im not a republican, nor is anyone in my family. I never called anyone stupid. But, if you can't see that the government was corrupt your blind or living under a rock.

"they have arranged for the government to keep all the poor people in the city where they can pretend it is some one else's problem to solve and pretend that they are much more moral than the evil city people."

Keep your conspiracy theories to yourself, you sound like a total screwball.

It also doesn't take me 20 minutes to get to work... that's a Buffalo myth! Of course, it's not really due to heavy traffic volume, but because our interchanges and entrance ramps are so horribly outdated that it doesn't bode well for merging traffic.
Takes me 15 to get downtown, both in the morning (with the flow) and in the afternoon (reverse flow). Then another 15 to get from downtown to work, give or take 5 minutes depending on how ornery the Genesee St lights are on any given day.

The only outdated interchanges are on the Thruway in Cheektowaga (and perhaps I-290 to a lesser degree). It seems they were designed for a 2-lane thru section and it was later widened to 3 lanes (does anyone know for sure?). Those overlapping weaves are terrible. I think I understand what they were trying to do from a design standpoint (achieving better than minimum weave length), but things don't work that way, the point of a weave lane is to be able to accelerate or decelerate smoothly, something you can't do when another ramp comes in midway.

I'd like to see them stack the I-90/33 interchange and put it a nice new SPDI at the Walden Ave one. They'd work much nicer and free up a whole lot of wasted land (something I'm sure the Town would love). Of course I'd love to see every interchange converted to SPDIs, maybe because I'm the only person I know who actually knows how to drive through them. They're far superior to any other form, besides freeway-freeway connections.

Just let it go. DallasTexan is clearly PMS-ing again. Negative comments on all the buffalo boards today.

Too many good-news posts about buffalo seem to set him off.

Nah, just a bit starry eyed right now. I went downtown today and counted 15 cranes in the skyline. Hardly negative comments though - more truthful than anything.

I agree. I don't want to live in a rapidly growing area, for numerous reasons. I'd be happy simply with stabilization and slow steady growth. 100,000k + people a decade? For what? Endlessly repeating sprawl in all directions for 50 miles outside the central core? They're not all going to live in the city or in an urban environment, even if it was physically possible! I don't think the Kowloon lifestyle appeals to Americans (or many others for that matter).


But 100,000 people per decade isn't a huge increase! Although it seems big for Buffalo, with our population, it would be about a 9% growth rate per decade, which is less than the 10.8% national growth average. Steady, but not booming. 100,000 people per year would not equal Kowloon OR the sprawl of Atlanta. Change is inevitable -- nothing can stay static forever. Doesn't anyone in Buffalo agree with me there?

The only outdated interchanges are on the Thruway in Cheektowaga (and perhaps I-290 to a lesser degree). It seems they were designed for a 2-lane thru section and it was later widened to 3 lanes (does anyone know for sure?). Those overlapping weaves are terrible. I think I understand what they were trying to do from a design standpoint (achieving better than minimum weave length), but things don't work that way, the point of a weave lane is to be able to accelerate or decelerate smoothly, something you can't do when another ramp comes in midway.

I'd like to see them stack the I-90/33 interchange and put it a nice new SPDI at the Walden Ave one. They'd work much nicer and free up a whole lot of wasted land (something I'm sure the Town would love). Of course I'd love to see every interchange converted to SPDIs, maybe because I'm the only person I know who actually knows how to drive through them. They're far superior to any other form, besides freeway-freeway connections.

That's what I'm talking about -- when I was working on assignment in Amherst, traffic on the 90 was HORRIBLE in the morning and it was due to the ass backwards interchanges/weave lanes. Same thing in the evenings.

But 100,000 people per decade isn't a huge increase! Although it seems big for Buffalo, with our population, it would be about a 9% growth rate per decade, which is less than the 10.8% national growth average. Steady, but not booming. 100,000 people per year would not equal Kowloon OR the sprawl of Atlanta. Change is inevitable -- nothing can stay static forever. Doesn't anyone in Buffalo agree with me there?
Change is necessary, change can be good, but change can also be bad. Even I can change - I, the self-proclaimed last person on Earth to get satellite TV, have satellite TV! (You'll still have to pry open my cold, lifeless hands to get me to carry a cell phone though.)

Like I said, I was talking to my apartment manager the other day, and she said she's seen more going on here in the last 2 years than the prior 30. So while it may not seem like much on a gross scale, on a relative scale it's probably staggering.

Like numbers, it's all in how you choose to look at it, I guess.

I'm just enjoying taking it in one day at a time and seeing how things pan out. I think I moved back at the right time, and that was my intent.

I'd like to see them stack the I-90/33 interchange and put it a nice new SPDI at the Walden Ave one. They'd work much nicer and free up a whole lot of wasted land (something I'm sure the Town would love). Of course I'd love to see every interchange converted to SPDIs, maybe because I'm the only person I know who actually knows how to drive through them. They're far superior to any other form, besides freeway-freeway connections.

What are these SPDI's that you're talking about? Could you post a picture of one perhaps?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-point_urban_interchange

"Your holier than thou attitude that people in the city are stupid and corrupt is offensive. People in the suburbs have their comfortable little republican lives"

You dont know me, you dont know my friends, you dont know my family, you are obviously totally ignorant to what the suburbs, the Kenmore and the Tonawandas especially, actually are like. There are very many low income familys in the city of Tonawanda. Take my word for it. Or, you can drive through the Tonawanda Proj and the neighborhoods around Niawanda park and see for yourself.
I dont recall ever saying anything close to what you implied. I would appreciate it if you would stop trying to put words in my mouth. Im not a republican, nor is anyone in my family. I never called anyone stupid. But, if you can't see that the government was corrupt your blind or living under a rock.

"they have arranged for the government to keep all the poor people in the city where they can pretend it is some one else's problem to solve and pretend that they are much more moral than the evil city people."

Keep your conspiracy theories to yourself, you sound like a total screwball.


Your attitude is so typical of the self righteousness of the suburbs ..."Oh we have some poor people"...Give me a breaaaaaak! Tonowanda's few poor families are hardly the same as the concentration of poverty left in the city by white flight and disinvestment. It is hardly the same as the massive housing projects built in the city, and it is certainly no conspiracy theory it is provable fact that the poor have been dumped in the city so that the suburbs can have the best schools and safest neighborhoods. Like I said Jimi...what rock have you been living under?

That's what I'm talking about -- when I was working on assignment in Amherst, traffic on the 90 was HORRIBLE in the morning and it was due to the ass backwards interchanges/weave lanes. Same thing in the evenings.
You seem to have forgotten this is NY State. We know the interchange is bad. They know it's bad. They've known for years that it's bad and they are going to redesign it. But in NY they have to go thru a decades-long process to fix anything.

I mean look at the toll-booth removal. Something that small could be done in one weekend but they're claiming it will take 6 months to go thru proper procedures.

Buffalo Corridor project website is here (http://www.nysthruway.gov/projectsandstudies/studies/buffalo/about.html)

I love good, old fashioned bureaucracy :D

hey crybabies, is it possible that massive federal subsidization and inept local leadership were BOTH in part responsible for the city of buffalo's decline?
i'm sure we could add a few other factors that hold some validity to this discussion.
i think we all cling to one or two social/political issues and proclaim them the "problem" but in reality, aren't they all the problem?

Tanawanda came within an inch of being absorbed into Buffalo back in the 20's. It was defeated by some early NIMBY's

Amherst was almost bankript in 1932, and approached the City of Buffalo, asking to be annexed. Buffalo city leaders said "no."

Amherst was almost bankript in 1932, and approached the City of Buffalo, asking to be annexed. Buffalo city leaders said "no."

1932. I wonder if a little something called the Great Depression had anything to do with Amherst being nearly bankrupt. Maybe Buffalo had good reason to say no at the time due to extenuating circumstances. Sounds like you're telling a very small part of the story.

How's this for telling just part of a story? And then a few decades later, Amerst was awarded the SUNY campus. It was built in Amherst instead of Buffalo. Last I checked, it was still called the University at Buffalo, though most of it is in Amherst. After that, Amherst accelerated while Buffalo declined. Aren't there like 35,000 students there? That could have been 35,000 living along Buffalo's waterfront and spending their partents' money instead of taking jobs out of the economy.

PS- Hopefully we'll soon be able to get some of this back with the ECC expansion. (Of course the suburbs don't want to give up their lackluster North Campus and South Campus.)

gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble

Happy Thanksgiving, all. Too bad I'll be spending mine in a plane flying back to Buffalo. Afterall, I have to be at work at 8:00 AM tomorrow morning :|

Your attitude is so typical of the self righteousness of the suburbs ..."Oh we have some poor people"...Give me a breaaaaaak! Tonowanda's few poor families are hardly the same as the concentration of poverty left in the city by white flight and disinvestment. It is hardly the same as the massive housing projects built in the city, and it is certainly no conspiracy theory it is provable fact that the poor have been dumped in the city so that the suburbs can have the best schools and safest neighborhoods. Like I said Jimi...what rock have you been living under?

How is my attitude typical? Im poor. I grew up on welfare. My father left when I was four and moved out of state. My mother worked 2 jobs, she worked full time at Big 4 dry cleaners on Elmwood and worked as a rep for Eureka vacuums. She eventually got a job at the 3M ocello plant and is making pretty decent money now, but shes still paying off her debts. If my mother could do it, theres no reason anyone else cant.
This story is similar to most of my friends and there familys growing up.
I'm not saying Tonawanda is the East side. But what difference would It make if we lived in say, riverside as opposed to Tonawanda?

Where did you grow up you fucking know it all.

Blah blah blah. Very typical. There is no concentration of poverty in Tonawanda that is anything near what is in Buffalo. The fact that the poverty is concentrated inside the city is not a coincidence. Take you blinders off. Just because you were poor does not mean that the suburbs are pulling their weight as far as solving this country's inner city poverty problems. In the meantime the massive disinvestment of the city in favor of the suburbs leaves the city poorer and poorer while leaving its residents to deal with the most difficult segment of the American population.

Amherst gets a new University. Buffalo gets to keep the empty factories and poorest most uneducated and most dysfunctional portion of the American population. Oh..you say...its problems must be because it elected a corrupt official or two. I suppose Buffalo should be grateful because, though it did not get that university it did get a highway plowed through is major park and down one of its beautiful parkways. What more do those immoral city people want anyway!?

I think I would enjoy a Buffalo forum gathering.

I'd watch you all fight each other 'til the death.

Refreshing!

Amherst gets a new University. Buffalo gets to keep the empty factories and poorest most uneducated and most dysfunctional portion of the American population.

Because that is all Buffalo wants. OMG they can't even build a rinky dink 3 story hotel how the hell do you ever even think that they would have allowed UB to build within the city limits. Buffalo is anti development from the governmental leaders to the losers of Elmwood Rising then they complain that the suburbs are stealing their economy. Give me a break you dumb ass.

^ well Wheatfield isn't anti development...they have new housing developments and office parks being proposed seemingly everyday.

^ well Wheatfield isn't anti development...they have new housing developments and office parks being proposed seemingly everyday.

True enough, and that is why on a percentage basis their population is one of the fastest growing in New York State.

Love those office parks...and strip malls too!

Just went down to the New Era store...it was niiiice. The front entrance isn't completed yet so people had to go through the side door. A few sabres there signing autos - Henrik Tallinder, Larry Playfair, and Richie Dunn.

Buffalo has office parks?

In all seriousness, does Buffalo have any suburban skylines? Note: NF does not count.

UB North Campus in Amherst is probably the only cluster of larger buildings outside downtown.

In all seriousness, does Buffalo have any suburban skylines? Note: NF does not count.


Why not?

Because that is all Buffalo wants. OMG they can't even build a rinky dink 3 story hotel how the hell do you ever even think that they would have allowed UB to build within the city limits. Buffalo is anti development from the governmental leaders to the losers of Elmwood Rising then they complain that the suburbs are stealing their economy. Give me a break you dumb ass.

Typical

In all seriousness, does Buffalo have any suburban skylines? Note: NF does not count.

I'm not counting UB or NFNY but I think there are some mini-suburban skylines from certain angles along Maple Road or Sheridan Drive.

Amherst

3-5 story buildings don't count, guys ;) We need an awe inspiring suburban skyline! With buildings galore!

^ I was talking about buildings 6 - 12 stories ( ;)? )...but I don't think they are all clustered together. So i guess best bet would be UB.

3-5 story buildings don't count, guys ;) We need an awe inspiring suburban skyline! With buildings galore!


why?

I went on a "field trip" once to Essjay Road in Willimsville. (Yes, I do actually leave downtown every once in a while!) I remember it looked kind of nice in an Edward Scissorhands kind of way. Landscaped and manicured perfectly...almost too perfectly, kind of scary. It's not exactly a suburban "skyline" as defined by DT (i.e. the buildings are short) but I think I remember it was kind of nice...if you're into that suburban livin'.

UB North Campus meets the definition of a suburban skyline. It's quite impressive from some angles. Why oh why couldn't that SUNY Buffalo campus have been built in Buffalo?

3-5 story buildings don't count, guys ;) We need an awe inspiring suburban skyline! With buildings galore!
WHY? What benefit would a suburban secondary core give to buffalo?

None.

Buildings galore? Come on guys, I was being sarcastic!

I went on a "field trip" once to Essjay Road in Willimsville. (Yes, I do actually leave downtown every once in a while!) I remember it looked kind of nice in an Edward Scissorhands kind of way. Landscaped and manicured perfectly...almost too perfectly, kind of scary. It's not exactly a suburban "skyline" as defined by DT (i.e. the buildings are short) but I think I remember it was kind of nice...if you're into that suburban livin'.

I know which park you are talking about, that's where my doctor is. lol. And that description is right on. There are also fake lakes everywhere.

Buildings galore? Come on guys, I was being sarcastic!
ah. well you're always sarcastic. I just can't tell when you're kidding.

:D

Niagara Falls Ont and NY

I am wondering, would you pay $800 for a 1449 sqft loft in downtown Buffalo?

OMFG the BILLS!!!!!! GO BUFFALO!!!!!

lol

I am wondering, would you pay $800 for a 1449 sqft loft in downtown Buffalo?

already do...tho its actually closer to 850sqft

Who went disco-ing last night?

$800 for 1500 sqft downtown loft would be an awesome deal.

Re Disco: I didn't go but I hear the CHiPs guy bailed and they had Bonaduce back to fill in for him. Anyone know what happened?

Heard the party itself was fun.

DT, I bet u were there hahaha...Eric Estrada lol

I wish. The World's Largest Disco proves without a doubt that Buffalo really is permanently stuck in 1977 ;)

I have a job interview with Southern Company next week :D

www.SouthernCompany.com

^ what about HSBC? too cool now to work for one of the largest banks in the world?

I want to go home.

So the divorce is final. Well, it lasted longer than Britney's

??? divorce ???