I dont think that I need to remind anyone how subjective this statement is...Yeah we all know unless we all act like bobbleheads here any other type of opinion is discounted. but just to discredit this statement, yes we should because we all need to agree with GBsurveyor, his opinion is THE opinion. its located on the west side so it cant be a great location and if I worked there and didn't own a car it would be a really long bus trip, but gas is cheap now, so why worry.
I bet the on Broadway people are thrilled to hear such a positive attitude. Maybe the Larsen project could use that as their slogan, "we know its the west side but hey....." I guess it would be a long bus trip but so few people use buses in Green Bay no one would really care, but with a car you jump on 172 set the cruise at 72 and you are there...only a couple of traffic lights and no bikes to slow a person down, transit the way it was meant to be used.

Well, we could take our voices and opinions away from this forum for a night, hold a get together similar to the one several of you had awhile back with Steve Schneider at the Bellin Building and invite Steve, Jeff Mirkes, Greg Larson, Dan Roarty, Naletta Burr, Rob Strong, Derek Lord and maybe even Mayor Schmitt. Let these people know that there is a lot of pride, care, enthusiasm and interest in downtown from Green Bay's citizens and even some from further away (ie, me-La Crosse). Let them know that there is a lot of civic pride and maybe they would be willing to discuss ideas, while we can offer some back. Maybe this is a pipe dream, but maybe it just takes one of us who actually know these people to give us a plug.

This could be a good idea... Maybe quarterly though would be better. Monthly might be too often. BTW... Naletta left OBI for a private firm about a year ago. Kelly Czypinski has been the Exec Director since last August.

I could see this as a next step past the "annual meeting" or even the Mayor's "state of the city" speech. A way for people to give feedback on proposals. I know the executives of the many involved downtown groups do meet weekly to keep updated, but this would be a way for the "more" interested downtown supporters (and maybe even the distractors) to give their thoughts and direction to those doing the planning. Of course realistically, not everything in the planning process or things proposed can be discussed. But by bring a few more people into the process and creating excitement there and possibly pointing out any concerns before the are made public would help.

Anyway... count me in :)

Well, that's good news. Has anyone heard how the fundraising for the Children's Museum is going? How about Hagemeister Park, do they have their financing?

There was slight mention in the RDA minutes that Mr. Vetter needs to have his financing in place before either can secure financing on their build outs.

Yeah we all know unless we all act like bobbleheads here any other type of opinion is discounted. yes we should because we all need to agree with GBsurveyor, his opinion is THE opinion.
I bet the on Broadway people are thrilled to hear such a positive attitude. Maybe the Larsen project could use that as their slogan, "we know its the west side but hey....." I guess it would be a long bus trip but so few people use buses in Green Bay no one would really care, but with a car you jump on 172 set the cruise at 72 and you are there...only a couple of traffic lights and no bikes to slow a person down, transit the way it was meant to be used.

You just wait a minute buddy - you're also going to have those damn roundabouts to deal with in the near future... but anyways I am glad that you could decifer my useless rant on your endless comments that add very little content. IMHO :cheers:

Why do people on this board have such an interest in the Broadway District but seem little interested in the Olde Main District? They're both niche districts. I like 'em both, although the Broadway effort certainly is older and farther along than Olde Main. Just askin'.

Why do people on this board have such an interest in the Broadway District but seem little interested in the Olde Main District? They're both niche districts. I like 'em both, although the Broadway effort certainly is older and farther along than Olde Main. Just askin'.

I'll give my opinion. It may not be fair, but the Olde Main area, although much improved, is still surrounded by somewhat nasty neighborhoods (coming from someone who used to live near Day St.). The idea of going to an area, leaving the car & walking around, etc., is very appealing to me. I KNOW that my wife would not feel comfortable walking around that area.

There was slight mention in the RDA minutes that Mr. Vetter needs to have his financing in place before either can secure financing on their build outs.

Thanks for the info. What I'm getting at though, especially as it relates to the Children's Museum, is that there needs to be a fund raising campaign to get the funds to build the museum. At least that is my understanding. So it seems odd that's A) they'd have to wait until all the financing is in place to have a fund raising campaign, and B) that raising said funds could be done on any sort of time line similar to what has been stated for this project.

So, that's why I'm asking. Maybe they have raised the funds they need to proceed, that would be cool. I just haven't heard (or can't remember) much about how that's going. But at the very least that's something that would, for the most part, have to be sorted out already if they are going to start construction this fall. Not the projected time lines for this project are any reliable indication of anything anyway...

Thanks for the response. It's not bad at all. I lived in one of those neighborhoods off Olde Main recently for some 20 years and never had a problem. Might still live there if I didn't get married and a different house elsewhere came with the marriage. But even if the Olde Main area were dangerous, wouldn't that be all the more reason to be interested in and follow its development and applaud its progress? The Broadway area, you know, used to be considered unsafe too - and, in fact, still is considered so by some despite all the improvements.

Have any of you attended the "Leicht at Night" Thursday night concerts? The first three were very well attended and were a lot of fun. It looks like On Broadway has added another successful event to Green Bay's list of things to do.

We took our kids to each of the concerts so far and we all had a great time. I think it is a wonderful addition to the downtown and I hope they continue it next year.

Have any of you attended the "Leicht at Night" Thursday night concerts? The first three were very well attended and were a lot of fun. It looks like On Broadway has added another successful event to Green Bay's list of things to do.

One hurdle after another. What is next now for unforeseen hurdles....So now Vetter apparently found a buyer for the tax credits. :bash:


http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local_wluk_greenbay_financing_finally_falls_into_place_072220092125_rev1


Then you hear "da mayor" talk about, "We are getting closer" or "We finally see the finish line!" How many times have we heard this shit before.

Key words, "may finally". Also this is the second news release using the words "found a buyer". Is there some reason the buyer cannot be named? This should not ruin the deal. It's up to a local reporter to dig more and do a story instead of just using a company's news release.

I'll give my opinion. It may not be fair, but the Olde Main area, although much improved, is still surrounded by somewhat nasty neighborhoods (coming from someone who used to live near Day St.). The idea of going to an area, leaving the car & walking around, etc., is very appealing to me. I KNOW that my wife would not feel comfortable walking around that area.

Oh yeah N Chestnut is such a much more desirable area. The reason they pump Broadway over Main is due to the desperation they have to do something with downtown they don't look at Main st as that area.

Thanks for the response. It's not bad at all. I lived in one of those neighborhoods off Olde Main recently for some 20 years and never had a problem. Might still live there if I didn't get married and a different house elsewhere came with the marriage. But even if the Olde Main area were dangerous, wouldn't that be all the more reason to be interested in and follow its development and applaud its progress? The Broadway area, you know, used to be considered unsafe too - and, in fact, still is considered so by some despite all the improvements.


I think the other reason it is easier to easily see improvements in OBI vs Olde Main is the sheer scope... OBI has mostly been about 3-4 blocks as well as some city monies about 5-8 years ago to improve the surrounding neighborhood homeowner occupied properties.

Olde Main is blocks and blocks long... one new building or a renovation is easily lost in the scope of the whole... but there are signs it is coming together... the similar way all the parking lots are fenced along Main street itself...and the new streetscaping that finished up this spring.

The city also targeted that area for new homes on razed lots (as it did in the OBI areas) and homeowner occupied improvement loans. Drive through those neighborhoods... with the possible exception of a few blocks of Day and Harvey the 3-4 blocks bordering Main St are way ahead of what they were 10 years ago

Just imagine a 10 gallon bucket of cement spred over 1 sq foot vs over 10 sq feet. :)

sorry, couldn't resist..

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090727/GPG0101/907270519/1978

As far as the talls, I really wish that some of Green Bay's larger companies would help invest in downtown. I know that Shopko has, but I really want them to be headquartered downtown. There was talk of them once selling there current headquarters to the mall for redevelopment and them moving downtown. Seriously, they don't need to build a structure for themselves, but imagine a 18 story tower combining Shopko, Associated Bank and maybe even Schneider. This would also serve as a good recruiting tool for perspective employees of these companies.

Count Schneider out, they just consolidated a number of their divisions into a new location out near the CBC. Great location and really nice building something you would never get in a downtown location.

I don't think that I need to remind anyone how subjective this statement is... but just to discredit this statement, its located on the west side so it cant be a great location and if I worked there and didn't own a car it would be a really long bus trip, but gas is cheap now, so why worry.

This has had me thinking. I think the reality is that, as mush as I'd like it to happen, there is not big savior coming to build a tower downtown. Of the companies mentioned, ShopKo seems unlikely as they don't have that much money to begin with and their ownership isn't local anyway, and with the HQ they have in Ashwaubenon I think there's a 0% chance of Schneider moving. If ever there was a possibility it's either Associated or Schrieber, both of which have a presence downtown and could in theory consolidate locations into one new building (although in both cases that would leave vacancies elsewhere downtown). At this point I don't see either being likely.

Aside from that, I think GBM is right that most people see a suburban location as preferable. That is subjective and it's clearly not everyone, but I think it's true. One the flip side, there are some businesses, particularly banks, that have seen downtown as the ideal place to be, and as such we've had investment from Baylake, Nicolet, Johnson, and Assocaited banks (along with other banks already there). Plus there are many small business people who see downtown as the place to be, and other industries moving down (marketing comes to mind with Imaginasium and Archetype moving down).

The point is this: not every employer wants to come downtown, and that's their right and they are the ones who have built successful businesses and as such I trust them to know what location is best for their business. It'd be awesome if one wanted to locate downtown, but it hasn't happened yet and isn't something anyone can control anyway. But we do have certain sectors that, although not as big, do show interest in the downtown. The key is to work towards the demonstrated strengths of the area and make it more desirable on the whole. If we do that, then maybe a bigger business in the future would be interested in downtown not because of what we think it could be, but because of what it is.

Thanks for the thoughts and comments about the Broadway and Olde Main districts. Look forward to watching future developments in both areas.

Just some thoughts on what has been posted. Has been said before but is worth saying again…

As far as a new tenant for downtown office tower. Yup. Pretty much limited to Schreiber Foods and Associated. They have committed to having employees downtown, but they also still maintain a significant presence outside of downtown. Chances of a full blown scale consolidation to downtown. Not likely. Why? It is odd. There have been many chances to locate large employers in the downtown. We missed out on AMS when they dangled a possible downtown tower in the media, but all along playing Green Bay to get a better deal out in Howard. Own it? No. Instead blame Green Bay for not doing more rather than telling the truth. Someone has to say it because it is true.

Large employers usually cite parking and development costs (costs more to go up then out) as main concerns for locating out on the fringes. Yet you go and look at other cities that have great downtowns with larger employers who have made that commitment it is because downtown is a great place to be. There are things that allow the employees to walk around over the lunch hour, frequent many different restaurants, get some quick errands done over the lunch hour. We don’t have that and it comes down to the chicken and egg syndrome. A large employer will rarely commit to a downtown location with out incentives related to securing parking and development costs. In addition, why would they want to be first downtown and not have those elements to sell to their employees? Of course, on the flip side is what is to see and do out in the middle of a large field? But those arguments never seem to be made. Odd.

Therefore we continuously get the same old “our downtown is dead”. Don’t get me wrong, having lived here most of my life – the downtown has made strides from where it was but isn’t where it could be. The Watermark project will not be a cure all. Once again it feels like we are settling for a half ass project that really won’t be all that successful. Sure we may get a Children’s Museum and some other eating choices, but what else? It will connect with the City Deck? So. If the City Deck is not promoted and programmed to the fullest, July 4th, Artstreet, and Bayfest will not be enough to consider it a success. Those events already occur downtown and are not going anywhere and at this time will not include the City Deck in their plans. The first River Center proposal was grand. It did have a big “wow” factor for Green Bay. The current Water Mark proposal is like, okay, let’s go to Bay Park. It is so uninspiring that you may as well call it the sequel to Port Plaza.

I don’t understand why there are so many in this area that care so little about their community but are so quick to judge and dismiss any type of progress as (“you may as well blow up downtown because it is dead”). Why?

Since GBMPhillips is on this board and has made statements like this, I honestly ask you why? Would Green Bay be better off with blocks and blocks of vacant, deteriorating buildings in its downtown? Would you be proud to call this place home? The direction of “no direction” in the past has left us way behind in terms of where a city our size with the national attention we have should be. Central neighborhoods are now finally being looked at for ways to be improved. But there are so many examples of where neglect has ruined jewels of our past and whole blocks are way past saving. Should we just bulldoze then like Detroit or allow them to continue to be run down and crime infested?

Streetscape projects are scrapped because of the cost. Why? Are we not proud of where we are from? Don’t we want our City, our home to become better, more appealing, more welcoming? Shouldn’t we demand better architecture, more pedestrian orientation to building and projects, more civic pride? The Packers provide a boost to our economy, but there needs to be a boost from the City to say we are not second or third class people. Our City is something we should be proud of, so that when visitors come here for this national event a couple times a year – they visit more places then just Lambeau Field. Most people I hear say you should go to Appleton or Milwaukee. How can we have a Crown Jewel like Lambeau and the rest of Green Bay besides a few buildings and homes built almost 100 years ago be so uninspiring? So blah. So just nothing that makes me say “see we are proud of where we come from?” Really?

We are not taking advantage of what we could. All for the small minority that always speak up and say, I hope my taxes aren’t being uses for that. When most people don’t understand that most of you are not paying your fair share of taxes. Does everyone know that really it takes a $250,000+ home value to actually equal the money spent on the services the City of Green Bay provides? That means for all the homes under that value, the City has to make up the difference some how. I am guilty of this. My home isn’t worth that much. Also the portion of your taxes that goes to the City is like ¼ of your tax bill. Don’t forget the school district, County, and Technical College all have their hands in there too. Nope – too few realize that even though they pay their taxes every year (hopefully). But in the end, the City is the evil axis that is wasting money and some stamped concrete or extra trees.

All those things we take for granted cost money. Way more than sometimes I even can believe. If we would have done this over time in smaller increments then it would be easier to swallow rather than always having to proposed these “silver bullet projects” which astronomical price tags and nothing similar in the City to point to and say “see it does work”…

I’m not taking a shot at you GBMPhillips. I really am looking to pick your brain and find out something that has been eating at me for years. I just don’t get it. Are we really all that content with living in a place that seems uninspiring? Do we really just live here because of the Packers or because the City of Green Bay is a place where for many years corporations have located providing employment opportunities, house prices are reasonable allowing home ownership, a relatively low crime rate, there are recreational and other things to do for entertainment?

So if it is the latter, then why are so many against improving this area? Really, if we let Green Bay go the suburbs we soon suffer. Businesses and corporations would relocate out of the region because Green Bay was left to erode.

I have Green Bay in my blood but it isn’t Green and Gold. Don’t get me wrong I love the Packers – but I love my hometown. I want it to be the best it can be. I want it to have a positive image. I want to drive down the streets with friends and family from other areas and have them say “wow, it would be cool to have something like this in our town”.

Sadly, I just don’t see this area changing to that mindset. We are always looking for the quick fix. And when it doesn’t work, everyone casts everything that comes after a sure-thing failure.

We have doomed this City to fail and are okay with that. We may talk a great deal about not wanting it to, but even I am guilty of it. Maybe it is because of my position that I don’t have the ability to do it as publicly as I would like. Maybe I should do something about that…

Well i said what I said. Now I need a decompression session...

^^
I'm not okay with this city failing, since it is a port city, and there is lots potential here that has been unrealized. I, too would like to see new businesses open up downtown, I would like to see a high-rise hotel with a revolving restaurant on the top floor, but I don't see anything like that happening soon. What I am waiting for is to see the demolition of Port Plaza, and the restoration of the street grid. We would like to see a mix of locally and nationally-recognized shops as well as mom-and-pop and fast-food restaurants open up in any part of downtown, whether it be the City Center/Downtown, Olde Main, or Broadway. I've seen a lot of other downtowns across the country be flexible with their buildings by opening locally-recognizable businesses, like Joe's Diner and Ken's Video, in old buildings that date back to who-knows-when, along side nationally-recognized businesses, like Walgreens Drugs or Burger King in similarly-aged buildings, while preserving its original appearance while adding new signs.

1. There is too much pessimism centered to the CBD
2. The CBD isnt advertise enough for anything from business to tourism
3. People are always complaining about MONEY and COST and not looking at something as an investmen.

A couple thoughts as I read GB4Life's disquisition.


Green Bay's best chance for 'signature buildings' may be a mix of businesses in one building. Look to the Bellin Building as an example, there are a crazy number of different businesses in that one building. A tall new building won't likely be primarily occupied by just one tenant in a city like this.

Historic settlements like Green Bay occupy the site they have for thousands of years for good reason. These reasons may be a bit obsolete now, but the strategic importance could come back again someday.... Once the "fossil fuel fiesta" is over, this area might once again become a more important site for commerce.

We've mentioned him before...but he came to mind again...If you can filter through the doom that's portrayed by authors like James Howard Kunstler, you'll find reasons for hope for cities like ours (midwest with decent climate and abundant food & water resources, "good bones", particularly in the downtown). I think we discussed these before, but have a listen to the "KunsterKasts (http://kunstlercast.com/shows/)" sometime, particularly episodes like #43, #39, #67, #48 & #71. Though I don't think he's always spot on, much of what he says makes a lot of sense to me. I read his book, "The Geography of Nowhere" and was entertained by that, and I was also a bit perturbed when I read another one of his books, "The Long Emergency". I agree with him in that human history is all about cycles --- tough times, followed by rebirth and renewal. We're in a tough time now and if certain things aren't resolved we're in for even worse, but we have to keep in mind that there is always a light at the end of the tunnel.

Not enough time to reply to everything except to say that just because not everyone is as excited about downtown as most of us doesn't mean they have no pride in the community. You can't just gloss over things like "for many years corporations have located providing employment opportunities, house prices are reasonable allowing home ownership, a relatively low crime rate, there are recreational and other things to do for entertainment." Those aren't things that just came with the geography, they are the result of a significant bit of civic pride. I think most people want downtown to do well, they just aren't as "into" it as much as we are. That's nothing wrong with them. They have no obligation to view things like we do, and if they don't it doesn't mean they don't care.

It took 30 years to bring downtown down. It isn't going to be fixed in five or ten years. Most people don't have the passion to promote the downtown or volunteer their time or contact their representatives or even make a career out of promoting the downtown like we do. Calling them out because of that doesn't help the cause. In the end here, as it is in most cities, it is up to a small committed few to push things over the tipping point towards success. If the downtown fails it won't be because a big corporation failed to show up or because the citizenry failed to care some arbitrary around that we think they should, it will be because we as supporters of the downtown fail to see this through and fail to stick this through the rough spots.

1. There is too much pessimism centered to the CBD
2. The CBD isnt advertise enough for anything from business to tourism
3. People are always complaining about MONEY and COST and not looking at something as an investmen.

You're right. The Pissimists on the P-G forum focus on the empty buildings downtown, but ignore the fact that there are vacant sites and buildings all over the city. How many sites in our fringe business parks sit vacant? Lots! How many "big box" stores in the suburbs have closed doors and failed to re-open? Many. On most weekdays, the downtown is actually one of the more vibrant places around.

Yea, exactly Puant including the Broadway farmers market. I just got done reading the article in the PG about Saint Norbert College and its new buildings, then of course the pathetic comments. Pathetic isnt strong enough actually. I said this before; its funny that Americans have this notion of "don't ever give up on anything," well why is downtown the exception?

Anyways, an idea for a use of the new Citydeck opening soon, boat show. Or do what Milwaukee has, a boat and air show; the boats would be along the river and new Citydeck, then there would be a shuttle to an area of spectators and entertainment and the air show part out by Bay Beach. So 2 areas of entertainment/spectation; along the river and out in the bay and a shuttle that moves visitors to/from.

Anyways, an idea for a use of the new Citydeck opening soon, boat show. Or do what Milwaukee has, a boat and air show; the boats would be along the river and new Citydeck, then there would be a shuttle to an area of spectators and entertainment and the air show part out by Bay Beach. So 2 areas of entertainment/spectation; along the river and out in the bay and a shuttle that moves visitors to/from.

Boat show minus the airshow sounds like Green Bay's speed. A water ski show put on between the Walnut and Nitschke bridges during another event like the Thursday night music one could help bring in more people when the City Deck is done. Or even just having the ski show go solo in the evening just after suppertime when there aren't other things planned for that night in the community.

I for one am optimistic about the future of downtown. For me it isn't anything about a building's glitz and glitter factor that's important, it's about life experiences. And that means an affordable family outing that's a mixture of things that appeal to a wide demographic.

Here's another cool Summer idea; Have Sea Doo races on a slalom course set up on the river from the Walnut bridge, under the Nitschke bridge and north to the convergence with the East River. Allow downtown businesses to place banner ads hung from the railings of the bridges. Or partially fund it with ad revenue from businesses outside the district placing their banners. Throw in some street vendors selling hot dogs, cotton candy, peanuts and fresh squeezed lemonade and it's nice wholesome entertainment.

I'm reading a book right now by Internationally acclaimed economist Jeff Rubin titled _Why Your World is About to Get a Whole Lot Smaller: Oil and the End of Globalization_. In it he outlines that with the ever increasing cost of energy, travel will again return to being a luxury affordable to the few and that people will take vacations closer to home. So I think our local Tourism Industry will decline and to counter it we need to provide vacation opportunities right here within NE Wisconsin that are going to appeal to that emerging demographic. I'd like downtown to be part of the smaller closer communities that will develop.

I'm reading a book right now by Internationally acclaimed economist Jeff Rubin titled _Why You World is About to Get a Whole Lot Smaller: Oil and the End of Globalization_. In it he outlines that with the ever increasing cost of energy, travel will again return to being a luxury affordable to the few and that people will take vacations closer to home. So I think our local Tourism Industry will decline and to counter it we need to provide vacation opportunities right here within NE Wisconsin that are going to appeal to that emerging demographic. I'd like downtown to be part of the smaller closer communities that will develop.
I seriously doubt that this will all happen, I don't want vacations to be a luxury. Let's say I want to see my dad in Maine, or wanted to go to go to the Mall of America in Minnesota. I don't want the economy and stuff holding me back. I see what you're trying to say. I don't want a future like in that book. It sounds, in my opinion, a little too bleak. I don't want vacations close to home. The original intent of a vacation, is to be far away from home, the way it should be. Once they start to make energy-efficient battery and solar-powered cars available to the masses, then we might see a spike in the number of travelers we see in the next decade. The economy is starting to show sign of recovery.

The original intent of a vacation, is to be far away from home, the way it should be. Once they start to make energy-efficient battery and solar-powered cars available to the masses, then we might see a spike in the number of travelers we see in the next decade. The economy is starting to show sign of recovery.I do see what you are saying, but I dont agree with this statement, is there a vacation bible? Who says vacations as supposed to be far away from home? I have co-workers that take a week of vacation to stay home and just chill and another always takes vacation to bail hay with his family.

And as far as the very inexpensive cost of travel we have today, I sure hope it lasts, but if I had to bet, energy costs are going to increase alot more then anyone would like. I have this crazy hunch that electric powered cars are not going to be available to the masses until the cost of oil is beyond what most people can afford.

I took a walk around East and West DT today and snapped this photo from the Nitschke bridge of the City Deck. As Danillo had reported there's already planking down at the other end by Walnut. I believe those pilings in the foreground are for Shopko Landing.

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww359/GB-Pix/CityDeck7-28-09.jpg

And as far as the very inexpensive cost of travel we have today, I sure hope it lasts, but if I had to bet, energy costs are going to increase alot more then anyone would like. I have this crazy hunch that electric powered cars are not going to be available to the masses until the cost of oil is beyond what most people can afford.
I agree. I also hope it lasts. I was overreacting about the vacation thing. I hope it stays inexpensive, so I don't have to carpool. A vacation can be as close as Appleton, Oconto, or Manitowoc, or as far away as Sheboygan, Chicago, Omaha, Los Angeles, or Timbuktu. Vacations can be as close or as far as you like (and as cheap as you like).

I took a walk around East and West DT today and snapped this photo from the Nitschke bridge of the City Deck. As Danillo had reported there's already planking down at the other end by Walnut. I believe those pilings in the foreground are for Shopko Landing.

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww359/GB-Pix/CityDeck7-28-09.jpg

I see some progress is being made on our riverfront project.

I took a brisk walk around downtown today. A few observations:

~FetaZ is re-opened, as of this evening. I peeked inside from the sidewalk, it looks like they've significantly remodeled the place. Looks good!

~Checking out the City Deck: Granted, the cost is high for "just a boardwalk" but...Considering how they've been working on this for many months, it was clear that the footings of this thing needed significant work..most of the work they've done so far is just in the footings....It's probably best they build this thing "right", to last, rather than slapping it together and having it fall apart or collapse later. In the end, it will be a significant improvement over what was there. ANd yes, again we all know it wasn't cheap to build, but this is the heard of the city where a lot of things will happen. IK still think it was a good investment.

~There is a fair number of people walking out and about in the downtown this time of year. It certainly does not feel "dead". We all want more, but it certainly isn't dead.

Significant progress has been made in our city. New buildings are going up. Historical buildings are being preserved. Dilapidated buildings are being torn down. Streets are being paved. New businesses are being opened. Green Bay's future is looking bright. If our city keeps up the good work, maybe Green Bay will look nice by 2054, the year of Green Bay's bicentennial.

Hey Puant, you just made my day! I am going to head over there tomorrow!

~FetaZ is re-opened, as of this evening. I peeked inside from the sidewalk, it looks like they've significantly remodeled the place. Looks good!

First off, a few photos I just took of the CityDeck from the Walnut St. side:

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_h1FPedSEE9E/SnRTmfu9RYI/AAAAAAAAAC4/-6JnKWCP8FA/s640/PICT0001.JPG


http://lh3.ggpht.com/_h1FPedSEE9E/SnRTmgVgEuI/AAAAAAAAAC8/k8MAcbgb7Gw/s640/PICT0002.JPG


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_h1FPedSEE9E/SnRTm0k8wXI/AAAAAAAAADA/8ZyKlyPgk-k/s640/PICT0003.JPG


I think it's coming along great, and I couldn't be more excited about it so far.

Also, I see that they've put the top back on the courthouse. Looks good. The flagpole looks different than I remember. It's kind of funny to see it so bright and shiny with the rest of the dome having like 20 years of patina on it.

Finally, I'm at the Daily Buzz again now so if anyone wants to stop by and chat feel free!

From WBAY.com

... Green Bay is taking the first steps at possibly opening a downtown Co-op.

Thousands of people flock to the Green Bay Farmer's Market every week to stock up on local fruits, vegetables, flowers and more.

"I just love all of the fresh foods. I just love coming here. It makes the grocery store look yucky," says Dawn Barron of De Pere.

Now with help of more than $12,000 in grant money from the Wisconsin Department of Commerce, a group of downtown businesses and organizations is looking at possibly expanding the farmer's market into a downtown urban food center. A steering committee is turning to the community through a survey to gauge interest on opening a Co-op, a center that would offer locally grown fruits, vegetables and other goods.

"We're looking to find out what kinds of goods do they want," explains Crystal Osman with Downtown Green Bay, Inc. "What do they want access to buy, whether it's local produce what kind of produces."

Those who regularly attend the farmer's market think opening a Co-op where they can purchase local products all year long not only supports local farmers, but could also be a great addition to the downtown.

"We live in an agricultural community," said Angie Flanagan of Green Bay. "We have it available to us, we should support that because a lot of communities don't have that and it's on of the strengths green bay has as a community."

"It's very important if we want to develop downtown, very important otherwise people leave for other places just to buy their food," said James Pfeiffer of Green Bay.

The survey being offered is just the first step towards making the urban food center a reality. But if there's enough community support, goods likes these could be more readily available more often within a year.

Click here (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=GePeZ3lccf50asWVNywdZw_3d_3d)to take the Urban Food Center survey.

I think this is great. The center of town has traditionally been the marketplace for this type of thing, so I wish people would minimize the whole "Green" trendy thing when they talk about stuff like this....this stuff shouldn't just be a "stylish" thing that people will tire of after the trend wears off, this type of stuff should be a permanent thing.

http://www.preservationnation.org/assets/photos-images/travel-sites/travel/gamsa/broadway-district/broadway-festival-michael-peters.jpg Check out this site also (http://www.preservationnation.org/travel-and-sites/travel/gamsa/Broadway.html)

Also from WBAY.com:

In March, Green Bay's Mayor and the Brown County Executive held a news conference announcing their lists of how they wanted to spend the federal stimulus money.

But Mayor Schmitt says of the $100 million he lobbied for, the government has awarded the city just $5 million. And so far, the city has only received 7% of that, or $350,000.

Yesterday, Schmitt asked Vice President Biden during a conference call about the City's money. The White House answer: "It is stuck in red tape," Schmitt recalls. Schmitt says Biden promised a follow-up Friday, and he's writing a letter to the White House asking for help tracking the funds.

The City says stimulus money is on the way for transportation projects, community development and energy efficiency programs, but nothing like the Mayor expected.

And Mayor Schmitt says two big projects on his list; moving the coal piles from Broadway to the mouth of the bay, and tearing down the vacant Washington Commons Mall, don't even qualify for stimulus money now.

"We think that would really help Green Bay and both those projects are very expensive and we were hoping that we could create jobs and get those projects done," says Mayor Schmitt. But now they're on hold.

Earlier this year, when excitement built over the stimulus money and communities talked of building infrastructure and putting people to work, Mayor Jim Schmitt, like most other leaders around the country, created a wish list. On it, the mall demolition and coal pile relocation. Schmitt says they were shovel ready projects and still are, and included the number of people they would employ.

But since then, he says Congress tweaked the wording of the Recovery Act making the projects ineligible for stimulus dollars.

"There's not a direct channel for the majority of the money," explains Mayor Schmitt. He says to receive funding, now most projects now must fall under existing programs or transportation and these don't.

"So it's now going through a, I use the word dysfunctional," says Schmitt. "And maybe that's a little strong, but it sure is convoluted on how that money reaches mayors and local municipalities and it's frustrating."

The Mayor says he won't give up on these projects, but they likely won't be done in the next year or two.

My take on this: I think it's very unfortunate that the stimulus language changed, making these project ineligible. Both projects (coal pile move and especially the mall renovation) not only would have created immediate jobs for the demo and such, but also would have created new sites for small businesses in a key, central location of the city. Instead, we're thowing more and more of this stimulus money at roads. I understand the value of certain roads, but we're not going to drive our way out of this Depression....we'd best drive less, realize that "globalism" will be less important in the future and will be more and more replaced by "Localism". We could have used these 2 key sites in downtown to start rebuilding local businesses. What a shame, what a shame. I'm not feeling good about this whole stimulus thing, it will most likely amount to nothing more than a fart in the wind.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/sein_soup_nazi.jpg No Stimulus For You!

From WBAY.com



Click here (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=GePeZ3lccf50asWVNywdZw_3d_3d)to take the Urban Food Center survey.

I think this is great. The center of town has traditionally been the marketplace for this type of thing, so I wish people would minimize the whole "Green" trendy thing when they talk about stuff like this....this stuff shouldn't just be a "stylish" thing that people will tire of after the trend wears off, this type of stuff should be a permanent thing.


I agree, this kind of thing is great. I'm glad that they are including a shared commercial kitchen in the plan. That will hopefully get used by local entrepreneurs to prepare dishes for cart vending, that aren't just hot dogs. You could someday get items like softball sized Bavarian potato dumplings with gravy, or sausage stuffed cabbage rolls. There was a news story last week about people in New York having lunch on the corner at the food cart to save money over going to restaurants. But the important thing is that it will spawn entrepreneurial spirit in the community among local greenhouses and other producers to provide quality food.

I hope there's enough support from the community to make it happen.

I agree, this kind of thing is great. I'm glad that they are including a shared commercial kitchen in the plan. That will hopefully get used by local entrepreneurs to prepare dishes for cart vending, that aren't just hot dogs. You could someday get items like softball sized Bavarian potato dumplings with gravy, or sausage stuffed cabbage rolls. There was a news story last week about people in New York having lunch on the corner at the food cart to save money over going to restaurants. But the important thing is that it will spawn entrepreneurial spirit in the community among local greenhouses and other producers to provide quality food.

I hope there's enough support from the community to make it happen.

Won't last a year.

Won't last a year.
Maybe so. It would face tough pricing competition from Festival and SuperValu. Those places are out in the 'burbs close to where most of the purchasing power is. Are people likely to drive 3-5 miles past Festival to save 15¢ on broccoli? Probably not. It depends on how much lower the overall food bill is for a family.

But at least there's discussion about a Co-op going on. It's a start.

^^The Co-Op builds on what is already popular, the Farmer's Markets.

When the Broadway Farmer's Market was first conceived, people could have made the same off-the-cuff negative predictions about that (<<begin curmudgeon voice here: "Who the hell would drive all the way to that dump of a downtown to a Farmer's Market on Broadway where you'd have to walk around outside in the sun and elements amongst all the bums and bars? No farmer's market is goona have everting I need anyway, like the supermarket does. What a joke! I could just drive over to the suburban supermarket and shop inside instead and get everything I need there! Broadway Farmer's Market? What a stupid idea, what kind of idiots come up with this crap??" >>end curmudgeon negative voice). Yet, look how popular that Farmer's Market is. Who'da thunk it?

Sure, the Co-Op idea is a bit more of a risk, but that's why they're doing the due diligence (research, surveys, etc). GBM, what do you base your opinion on?

First off, a few photos I just took of the CityDeck from the Walnut St. side:

Not sure if any of you are friends of "Downtown Green Bay" on facebook but they just posted 45 pics of the boardwalk.

Not sure this will work or not... http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=96887&id=39473118594

DMS

Maybe so. It would face tough pricing competition from Festival and SuperValu. Those places are out in the 'burbs close to where most of the purchasing power is. Are people likely to drive 3-5 miles past Festival to save 15¢ on broccoli? Probably not. It depends on how much lower the overall food bill is for a family.

But at least there's discussion about a Co-op going on. It's a start.

I would, and it doesn't really have anything to do with price. Local produce that hasn't been picked early, pumped with nitrogen to "ripen" on the way, & trucked 1500 miles just tastes better.

I don't know if a co-op will work or not, but the people who go will go for more reasons than just price. I think that price, convenience, quality, and supporting local business are all valid reasons for going.

Downtown co-op: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090802/GPG0101/908020619/-1/archive

Amtrak to Green Bay: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090803/GPG0602/908030511/1269/GPG06/Editorial--High-speed-rail-deal-is-good-first-step

New entrance to East Town Mall (this one's especially for Green Bay Sponge): www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090801/GPG03/908010494/-1/archive

Stimulus working: www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-08-02-stimulus_N.htm

There was also an article a couple of weeks back about how Green Bay Transit routes change this month, including elimination of the downtown shuttle. I didn't post the article when it came out, and it has now gone into the paper's archives.

There used to be a food co-op on Main Street in Green Bay in what's now the Olde Main District. It was there, I believe, in the 1970s, '80s and into the '90s before folding. I can't remember its name for sure. It might have been the Natural Foods Co-op.

One more and I'll quit: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090731/GPG0101/907310592/-1/archive

The mayor should be careful about calling any other level of government "dysfunctional," given the city's performance on issues like roundabouts, homeless shelters and Nativity scenes at City Hall and given how City Council meetings are conducted.

I think a non-profit food co-op in downtown Green Bay is a fantastic idea. It is strange that a university town our size does not have one. Many cities in Wisconsin, smaller than Green Bay, support successful food co-ops. I think the group working on this is doing a nice job of making sure a thorough feasibility study is done and that a suitable location is chosen. The success of the farmer's markets is a good indication that this would succeed. The time is right.

I was glad to see that someone else on here listens to the Kunstlercast podcast!! Although he does seem kind of "grouchy" at first, he actually offers a very insightful and positive vision for our cities and downtowns. Check it out!

I don't really think that it is that important that we have some "high-rises" downtown. The emphasis should be on practical, well-constructed, energy-efficient ("green") and ATTRACTIVE 4-8 story buildings.

Eddy

Those places are out in the 'burbs close to where most of the purchasing power is.

That may be true after 6pm, but you have to also remember of the 10,000+ white collar workers downtown every day. So not only do you have the bandwagon "green" suburbanites who would drive to shop there, but also the white collar people who would shop there during lunch and after work.

That may be true after 6pm, but you have to also remember of the 10,000+ white collar workers downtown every day. So not only do you have the bandwagon "green" suburbanites who would drive to shop there, but also the white collar people who would shop there during lunch and after work.

Let's look at that figure 10,000 more closely and see just how accurate it is. That number first popped up about 3 or 4 years ago by DTGBI using it for promotional purposes to lure-in companies to locate downtown. It was worded something like, "10,000 workers within a mile of downtown."

At the time, I thought that's easy to come up with, but then changed my mind;

there's 4 paper mills that employ about 2,400 people,

State, City and County govts. that employ about 400 people downtown,

APAC, I'll be generous and say 1,200 people,

Associated, I'll guess 250 working downtown,

WPS, let's say 500 working downtown,

Humana, maybe 150 in 2 buildings,

Schreiber, again maybe 150 in I think 3 buildings,

Courthouse and Sheriff's Dept., about 350 downtown.

Now I missed some employers, but that's about 5,400. But you can immediately take away the 2,400 mill workers because they historically don't go downtown except to pass through on their way to home out in the 'burbs. That leaves 3,000. Even if you count all the workers at all the restaurants, gas stations and bars it still isn't even close to 10,000.

Of course all these are guesses based on my living 7 years next to downtown and my observations while going downtown frequently (several times a week). If there were 10,000 white-collar workers downtown there would be way more people walking the streets at lunchtime. I just don't believe it is valid and think it's overinflated to make the district look good.

If anyone has the real numbers with a location breakdown about how many people work in the downtown please show them, with the source cited. I'll gladly change my mind when the facts prove me wrong.

Hey Puant, you just made my day! I am going to head over there tomorrow!

FYI, they changed their hours. I went over there last night & they were closed. It looks like most days they are open 11-2, then reopening for the evening 5-9. Mondays (as I found out) they are not open at night...

A couple of turns of phrase here of late have bothered me and I'd like to address them briefly. Pardon me if I'm misreading anyone, but I think this is important. There seems to be an idea that quality (sometimes local, sometimes organic, etc.) food is trendy, snobby, elitist, etc.

While, arguably, quality food is trendy at the moment, I would like to create a separation between a trend and the thing itself. Trends can be annoying, I see it all of the time... an over-reliance on food labeling, confusion in the marketplace, bad information coupled with good intention, etc.

Organic processed food is still processed food. Organic does not equal healthy.

Also, quality food is generally more expensive than the crap that I see in a lot of people's grocery carts at the store. There are a lot of reasons why it can be more expensive. Four that spring to mind: it's not as heavily subsidized, it's more costly to grow, there's a smaller demand for it, and it costs money to do things in a sustainable, non-wasteful, environmentally friendly way. (If it were cheaper to grow everything this way than everyone would). The thing to remember is that it's mostly better for your health, and always better for the environment.

You have to look at this in the bigger frame: 1.) encouraging people to eat quality food that is healthier for them is enormously beneficial to our society. People's bad diets are costing us a TON of money. While I'm not in favor of legislating diets, I do think it makes sense for the government to begin changing policy that currently pushes bad diets to one that encourages good ones. The fact is that my health care premiums are bigger because they help subsidize the health care of obese uninsured people. 2.) Local food is not only tastier, healthier, and more environmentally friendly, but it allows farmers to make a better living. Farmers can earn a lot more selling non-commodity crops (like corn) like broccoli, etc.

And that's the thing itself. Does good food cost more, yes, but a healthy diet can, eventually, be offset by lower health care costs. And that's the thing to remember. Also, the more people begin to demand better, local, sustainable food, the lower the costs will become. Green Bay should absolutely have a co-op downtown. But what I would rather see is for local grocery stores (Copps, etc.) getting more heavily into to this stuff.

Right now, you have to make a priority of obtaining good food. I'd rather that become the default.

I rented a DVD a few weeks back about the corporate control over our food supply. It helps to make a good case for localism when buying your food. Because of market forces and corporate oversight of them, 99% of the plants cultivated during the 19th Century are now extinct and we are left with just one or two varieties of things like potatoes.

It's called "The Future of Food" and HERE (http://www.thefutureoffood.com/trailer.htm)is the trailer.

I rented a DVD a few weeks back about the corporate control over our food supply. It helps to make a good case for localism when buying your food. Because of market forces and corporate oversight of them, 99% of the plants cultivated during the 19th Century are now extinct and we are left with just one or two varieties of things like potatoes.

It's called "The Future of Food" and HERE (http://www.thefutureoffood.com/trailer.htm)is the trailer.

"food, inc." is another one worth watching, if you can find it.

As for the # of employees downtown, I believe the figure is close to 10,000. I base this on my knowledge of the downtown: Once, just for my sordid kind of "fun", I spent some of my spare time mapping out each building and then estimating how many people worked in each one. In the end, my figure was closer to 10,000. Of course, part of it depends on what your boundary of "Downtown" is. Do you include the west side of the River? How far south? etc. In any case, though, I don't think 10,000 is "padding" too much. When you include all small business as well as the larger ones, the number grows.

As for the # of employees downtown, I believe the figure is close to 10,000. I base this on my knowledge of the downtown: Once, just for my sordid kind of "fun", I spent some of my spare time mapping out each building and then estimating how many people worked in each one. In the end, my figure was closer to 10,000. Of course, part of it depends on what your boundary of "Downtown" is. Do you include the west side of the River? How far south? etc. In any case, though, I don't think 10,000 is "padding" too much. When you include all small business as well as the larger ones, the number grows.

I was only going off figures provided by Mr. Mirkes, who is a what I would consider a reliable source of downtown Green Bay statistics. If I thought that the number was out of reach, I would never have posted it. I don't really know the boundary's to his numbers.

If anyone has the real numbers with a location breakdown about how many people work in the downtown please show them, with the source cited. I'll gladly change my mind when the facts prove me wrong.

The only one I can say for certainty is to a bit more than double the WPS numbers. Let's ask Mr. Mirkes to break down his fairly recent disclosure of those numbers.

How about you disprove the 10,000 employee figure with actual facts instead of guesses? Until you do, I won't bother wasting my time.

How about you disprove the 10,000 employee figure with actual facts instead of guesses? Until you do, I won't bother wasting my time.

OK, sounds fair enough, neither of us will waste any more time on it. If the figure is correct, great. I'd rather me be wrong in my assumption than have a house of cards fall on everyone.

I have Thursday night off so I'm going to check out "Taste of Broadway" and "Leicht Night" and experience first hand some of the special things going on DT.

The Future of Food Documentary
I rented a DVD a few weeks back about the corporate control over our food supply. It helps to make a good case for localism when buying your food. Because of market forces and corporate oversight of them, 99% of the plants cultivated during the 19th Century are now extinct and we are left with just one or two varieties of things like potatoes.

It's called "The Future of Food" and HERE is the trailer.

You can watch the full length version of "The Future of Food" on Hulu at:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/67878/the-future-of-food

Great Documentary.


"food, inc." is another one worth watching, if you can find it.

You can also catch Food, Inc. at the Sundance Cinema in Madison.


Looking for good written work on the benefits of quality, rather than processed food? Read anything from Michael Pollan, In Defense of Food is a good start. Then try Omnivore's Dilemma. Both great reads.

"Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." ~ Michael Pollan

I have Thursday night off so I'm going to check out "Taste of Broadway" and "Leicht Night" and experience first hand some of the special things going on DT.

Glad you mentioned it Navarino.

Taste On Broadway is only a day away. 21 local restaurants will line the streets of Broadway for one of Green Bay's best foodie events. Sample some of the greatest local cuisine and music all On Broadway. Festivities start at 5:00pm on Broadway between Walnut and Dousman. For a complete list of restaurants participating or any further information, log on to tasteonbroadway.com (http://www.tasteonbroadway.com).

Hope to see you all there tomorrow night.

The remaining shows for Leicht at Nite include:

August 13 | Spin

August 20 | Sonic Circuis

August 27 | Johnny Wad

All concerts begin at 5:30pm and end by 10:00pm down at Leicht Park. Show your support for some great local music, and stop by to Titletown after the show for a post-concert party. More information available here (http://onbroadway.org/LeichtAtNite).

Also, don't forget to vote (http://action.farmland.org/site/PageNavigator/Americas-Favorite-Farmers-Markets/best_local_farmers_market_vote) your very own Farmers' Market On Broadway for America's Favorite Farmers' Market.

Stop on down to Green Bay's historic Broadway District and discover the Broadway Beat.

My wife & I went to Fetaz last night, and found out that it re-opened with a new owner. I had my suspicions, because I had heard he was looking to sell.

They have a completely new menu, & it's more "upscale". We didn't end up eating there because we just wanted to grab a gyro to go. I'll probably go back & try it, but I REALLY liked Fetaz the way it was.....:ohno:

Stimulus working: www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-08-02-stimulus_N.htm



That's actually funny!

:lol:

Yes, we went over there on Monday and found out as you did the new hours. Went back today and it really seemed like a totally different place. Totally new menu, new staff, along with the remodel.

All orders now come with potato chips they make to order which was cool but they also no longer offer fries as an option.

FYI, they changed their hours. I went over there last night & they were closed. It looks like most days they are open 11-2, then reopening for the evening 5-9. Mondays (as I found out) they are not open at night...

Hey All,

I am part of Current (Green Bay Young Professionals). We have an event coming up at Big Tomatoes on Monday, August 12 about downtown development with Jeff Mirkes. The event is open to Non-members as well, but you may want to check with Brian Johnson as there may be some age descriptions because it is an event for "Young Professionals" (40 and under, I believe). His email address is bjohnson@titletown.org. Feel free to tell him I (Josh Oliver) sent you. I believe the price for non-members may be even cheaper now (and it includes lunch). I have all the details below. If you are unable to attend, but what me to bring up any questions, just post them here.

========================================================

August Event: What's Up Downtown
Event Basics
Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 11:30-1:00
Big Tomatoes, 1244 Main Street, Green Bay
Fee: $15 Members, $25 Non-members, Free with Events Package

Event Overview
This will be a presentation about Downtown Green Bay's progress. The program includes a dynamic PowerPoint presentation with numerous before and after images of a downtown gaining momentum! It will show many examples of “The Downtown Experience” as well as the authentic components of downtown Green Bay. The development that has taken place over the past 5 years is impressive when viewed as a whole. The presentation will show development plans underway like The CityDeck and may include some plans on the drawing board. A healthy discussion is promised!

Yes, we went over there on Monday and found out as you did the new hours. Went back today and it really seemed like a totally different place. Totally new menu, new staff, along with the remodel.

All orders now come with potato chips they make to order which was cool but they also no longer offer fries as an option.

did you eat there? if so, how was it? I looked at the menu, & they had some stuff I'd be interested to try. It very well may be good, I'm just ticked that my favorite gyro place is now gone..

The food was good and I really liked the chips.

I missed the old feel of the place. I think they are trying for a more classy restaurant atmosphere which is find but not what I expected.

The prices are a bit higher too.

did you eat there? if so, how was it? I looked at the menu, & they had some stuff I'd be interested to try. It very well may be good, I'm just ticked that my favorite gyro place is now gone..

The food was good and I really liked the chips.

I missed the old feel of the place. I think they are trying for a more classy restaurant atmosphere which is find but not what I expected.

The prices are a bit higher too.

I'm a take-out kind of diner. Pick up the food and go eat it somewhere else like along the Fox River Trail or a nearby park. I hope they can provide speedy service when the City Deck opens.

I hope the falafel hasn't changed. I found a fun game called Falafel King (http://www.falafelgame.com/eng/falafelhome.html) about being a falafel vendor that's fun to play. Click on the sleeping guy to start.

I'm a take-out kind of diner. Pick up the food and go eat it somewhere else like along the Fox River Trail or a nearby park. I hope they can provide speedy service when the City Deck opens.

I hope the falafel hasn't changed. I found a fun game called Falafel King (http://www.falafelgame.com/eng/falafelhome.html) about being a falafel vendor that's fun to play. Click on the sleeping guy to start.

I love falafel, but that's one thing I wasn't a huge fan of at Fetaz. I always found them to be a little dry. I went to that new place in Depere, "Gyro Kabobs", a couple weeks ago, & like the falafel better there. It's in the old Subway on the backside of Main Street (by Pasquale's, etc.). Gyros were good too. Chicken gyros, not so good...

I walked over to Taste of Broadway yesterday and took some photos before the sun went down. I also just got back from a walk down to Bosse's and spotted a Green Bike locked to the stand with another at the Wisconsin Job Center.

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww359/GB-Pix/TasteBroadway2009a.jpg

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww359/GB-Pix/TasteBroadway2009b.jpg

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww359/GB-Pix/GreenBike-JobCenter.jpg

Hey All,

I am part of Current (Green Bay Young Professionals). We have an event coming up at Big Tomatoes on Monday, August 12 about downtown development with Jeff Mirkes. The event is open to Non-members as well, but you may want to check with Brian Johnson as there may be some age descriptions because it is an event for "Young Professionals" (40 and under, I believe). His email address is bjohnson@titletown.org. Feel free to tell him I (Josh Oliver) sent you. I believe the price for non-members may be even cheaper now (and it includes lunch). I have all the details below. If you are unable to attend, but what me to bring up any questions, just post them here.

========================================================

August Event: What's Up Downtown
Event Basics
Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 11:30-1:00
Big Tomatoes, 1244 Main Street, Green Bay
Fee: $15 Members, $25 Non-members, Free with Events Package

Event Overview
This will be a presentation about Downtown Green Bay's progress. The program includes a dynamic PowerPoint presentation with numerous before and after images of a downtown gaining momentum! It will show many examples of “The Downtown Experience” as well as the authentic components of downtown Green Bay. The development that has taken place over the past 5 years is impressive when viewed as a whole. The presentation will show development plans underway like The CityDeck and may include some plans on the drawing board. A healthy discussion is promised!

Josh-For those who cannot be there, would you be willing to give a report? Can you find out if anything is on the horizon?

Food CO-OP-I see that there is a community meeting regarding the food co-op for citizens to voice their ideas, opinion and to gather information on August 18 from 6-8pm in the Brown County Extension Office. Anyone have plans to check this out? I sent an email saying that I want a well designed, urban building with zero setback, parking in the rear, brick and masonry, and large inviting windows:) I wrote this in the survey being offered in addition to the questions regarding the food options and sustainability of this potential endeavor, I feel strongly that this is an opportunity to add another piece of the puzzle to a redeveloped downtown and that I want grocery shopping with an urban experience!

FetaZ: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090809/GPG0703/908090380/-1/archive

Josh-For those who cannot be there, would you be willing to give a report? Can you find out if anything is on the horizon?

I sent an email saying that I want a well designed, urban building with zero setback, parking in the rear, brick and masonry, and large inviting windows:) I wrote this in the survey being offered in addition to the questions regarding the food options and sustainability of this potential endeavor, I feel strongly that this is an opportunity to add another piece of the puzzle to a redeveloped downtown and that I want grocery shopping with an urban experience!

A new building like you describe sounds great. If building new coincides with tearing down the mall I'm all for it. But maybe they could operate a co-op out of the JC Penney building for a couple years to gauge success before investing in a new building. That would give time to prepare the mall site by restoring the street grid and clean up the new lots that are created.

I think the JC Penney building would work fine because of its size and already has a loading dock. A co-op could use the first floor while the second could be used for the shared kitchen. Here's a link (http://www.chefskitchens.com/) to a website with news videos about a shared kitchen in L.A.

And of course ramp parking is surely urban enough. But I don't think the goal is to get people to drive in from the outskirts as much as it is to serve people who live and work close to the downtown area.

I wonder what the hours of operation might be.

My sense is that this "food co-op" had better have a good atmostphere, because in Green Bay, local food alone might not be enough of a draw.

The best idea I've seen so far is to host this coop on Broadway in the building next to the "Yellow Egyptian Revival" building. The next door building is surprisingly large, it has the zero setback, storefront windows, it's in a great urban location and has parking in the rear as well as street parking. It also has a lot of adjacent uses that blend in well.

I respectfully disagree with Navarino Rzdnt...I do not think the JC Penney building would work for this. Frankly, I'd like to see that hideous loading dock (which is highly visible from Main St and the convention center) go away. And a parking ramp does NOT equal "Urban" to me.

OK, yes parking ramps are "urban" but they are nasty urban. Whatever benefit they add in letting people park in those things is subtracted and then some in quality space, and that cancer affects adjacent lots as well. This is a...what would you call it... paradox, an absurdity, a contridiction...ON one hand, yeah it provides the "much needed" parking. But look at the Cherry St Ramp as an example. It provides parking, but it's dead space. It has adversely affected much of the block around it, Angelina's courtyard area for example. And this part of "core" Washington St is now completely FUBR. I am not a fan of parking ramps. We need to design better parking and to use transit more. These concepts are so very key to quality urbanism that people will be attracted to.

OK, yes parking ramps are "urban" but they are nasty urban. Whatever benefit they add in letting people park in those things is subtracted and then some in quality space, and that cancer affects adjacent lots as well. This is a...what would you call it... paradox, an absurdity, a contridiction...ON one hand, yeah it provides the "much needed" parking. But look at the Cherry St Ramp as an example. It provides parking, but it's dead space. It has adversely affected much of the block around it, Angelina's courtyard area for example. And this part of "core" Washington St is now completely FUBR. I am not a fan of parking ramps. We need to design better parking and to use transit more. These concepts are so very key to quality urbanism that people will be attracted to.

This is not living in the real world. I'm as much for urban living options and mass transit options as anyone, but they are just that, options. We aren't anywhere near, nor should be be planning for, a future where the majority of people in the area who may visit downtown do so via transit or because they live there. As such, we must have parking available.

This is going to come in one of two forms, surface lots or ramps. I'll take a few ramps over many surface lots. And let us not forget that without the Cherry St. ramp, Nicolet Bank certainly doesn't happen, and Baylake Bank and APAC probably don't happen. That ramp, though not perfect, took a surface lot and turned it into street-front retail space along with like 7 times as much parking space. Tell me where else you are going to put that?

It's a great idea to have transit options so more people can use the downtown without driving. And to the degree we can we should look to provide more urban lifestyle options. But we're providing an option for a segment of the population that alone isn't going to support the downtown. Remember, part of the reason suburbs exist is because people like living in them. In addition, I just saw in the news that the Chevy Volt may be rated at 230 MPG (!) for city driving, and in use could use almost no gas for people who travel less than 40 miles. So technology may (I'd guess will) resolve at least some of the sustainability issues with suburbs, certainly with suburban transportation. This is good, but it means if we want the downtown to succeed, along with things like a food coop within it, there had better be parking.

My sense is that this "food co-op" had better have a good atmostphere, because in Green Bay, local food alone might not be enough of a draw.

The best idea I've seen so far is to host this coop on Broadway in the building next to the "Yellow Egyptian Revival" building. The next door building is surprisingly large, it has the zero setback, storefront windows, it's in a great urban location and has parking in the rear as well as street parking. It also has a lot of adjacent uses that blend in well.



Everyone has a their perception of a good atmosphere. I've never been to an urban co-op, only rural ones where there's more tractors parked outside than autos. But I would guess that an urban co-op would take advantage of the cost savings of re-using an existing structure, and used equipment such as coolers and shelving like Siegall's and Save A Lot. The people that are running the survey asked questions about that.

There are a couple places on Broadway that could accommodate a food store. But the East side is where most of the employees that work downtown are. It would make more sense to have it within short walking distance ¼ mile or less of those potential customers. The near West side already has Save A Lot , the East side has nothing. I'm 1¼ miles from both Save A Lot and Webster Avenue Market, and almost 3 miles from University Avenue Market, but only 4 blocks or less from almost anywhere in East Downtown so JC Penney would work out just fine for me. I think it would work out fine for people at all the offices on the East side.

If you have never visited an urban food co-op, you should! They are fantastic places. Madison and Milwaukee each have at least one and the one in downtown Bozeman, MT is always full of people and events.

I really think we need to prepare for the "end of oil" and give up on and discourage cars to the greatest extent possible. There is no such thing as a good car. Even if we put everyone in an electric car today, does anyone know how many coal or nuclear plants would be necessary to run those cars at today's driving levels? -That does not pose a pleasant and clean future.

Cars, along with suburbs, are doomed. In the future, cars are probably going to be shared and used minimally. The reasons why downtowns will end up thriving is that people will need to be able to work, shop, live, and go to school all within walking/biking distance. Cities offer the most energy efficient lifestyle. In Manhattan, many people have no car at all. A few European cities have even completely banned cars from their downtowns. These cities ATTRACT people and businesses, as opposed to discouraging them.

I think it would be great if downtown Green Bay had at least a car-free street, like State St. in Madison, (maybe on Washington from Walnut to Porlier), or even a car free "neighborhood" where the mall currently is. These types of areas are VERY attractive to events and people.

A great way to discourage traffic, increase street-side foot traffic, AND offer more and easier parking would be to take our four lane streets, reduce them to two lanes, and offer diagonal parking on both sides.

Just Rambling!!
Eddy

I really think we need to prepare for the "end of oil" and give up on and discourage cars to the greatest extent possible. There is no such thing as a good car. Even if we put everyone in an electric car today, does anyone know how many coal or nuclear plants would be necessary to run those cars at today's driving levels? -That does not pose a pleasant and clean future.

Cars, along with suburbs, are doomed. In the future, cars are probably going to be shared and used minimally. The reasons why downtowns will end up thriving is that people will need to be able to work, shop, live, and go to school all within walking/biking distance. Cities offer the most energy efficient lifestyle. In Manhattan, many people have no car at all. A few European cities have even completely banned cars from their downtowns. These cities ATTRACT people and businesses, as opposed to discouraging them.

First, electric cars are a fair bit more efficient than internal combustion cars. Far fewer moving parts, far less energy wasted as heat, they are very torquey (if that's the word), so the transmission is greatly simplified. So just on that alone, if everyone switched to electric cars the energy savings would be massive. Beyond that, whereas a gas car must be powered by gas, an electric car can be powered by any energy source available. So, yes there's coal and nuclear, but there's also wind and solar and hydro, etc. People could put small wind turbines on their house no larger than a satellite TV dish and that could help offset the energy used by the car. The point is there's so much more flexibility with electric that simply isn't there with gas, and we'd have the option to choose and adapt much more readily.

Beyond that, especially in cities the size of GB, I just see very little evidence that the death of the suburb is at hand. Distances aren't that great, people like them, people are invested in them, and they aren't all going to up and move downtown any time soon. As I've said, nobody wants to see options to make urban living better in Green Bay, or to make more transit options available, etc. than me, but at the same time it's just a fact that many/most people around here don't want to live downtown... and that's okay. What we don't want to do is ruin progress in the name of making the downtown some sort of car-free utopia that's not coming. Providing parking is just necessary. It allows people who use cars to get downtown, work downtown, spend money downtown, and help make sustainable the sort of things needed to make the downtown livable.

In the end, we need options. It makes no sense to me to keep things as they are where one virtually HAS to use a car, but it makes equally little sense to build things in a way that ignores the fact that most people use cars. The former could be a recipe for disaster, the latter will be.

Hobart's Centennial Centre will feature shops and homes

HOBART — The planning phase of the village's future commercial and retail hub on Wisconsin 29 is coming to a conclusion as officials reach out to interested developers and investors for the Centennial Centre project. A proposed residential development of 300 leased units and 145 single-family homes on about 79 acres is the first of many projects in the area, village administrator Andrew Vickers said.

the rest here http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090811/GPG03/908110449/1247/Hobart-s-Centennial-Centre-will-feature-shops-and-homes

We need to design better parking and to use transit more. These concepts are so very key to quality urbanism that people will be attracted to.

Well, I don't want to sound all argumentative here, but I didn't ever suggest making downtown "car free".

I am all for streets. I agree parking is necessary. My point was simply that these things need better design.

I think parking can be tucked in behind buildings and on-street. I see little design in the surface lots and hulking parking ramps that have been put in downtown. I'm just saying...Design parking better so that it doesn't suck away the urban quality...

Lots of parking in suburbia is fine to me; it is what is expected. But in downtown, I see that as more of a pedestrian zone with more closely-knit places. When there is too much parking interrupting the buildings and stuff, then the quality of the area is lessened. When there is more square footage for cars than there is for people, then we have a problem.

As for electric cars...I agree with Dan on this. I think that electric will be the future. Dan's right, electricity can be generated so many ways, locally even. Coal isn't clean, there is a price to pay for any energy source but of course Americans are all bent over a barrel over oil and we must find a way to move on. Drill baby Drill won't cut it, not with how much we consume. And the massive amounts of oil still out west and in Canada is largely locked into shale, it takes as much or more energy to extract it than it's worth. I do believe that the age of "cheap oil" (Kunstler's "Fossil Fuel Fiesta") is nearing an end. But I dno't necessarily agree with Kunstler and others who say that cars will just go away then. But we need electric ones, badly. We need a better battery , then electric cars will take off in popularity. What would be cool is if some start-up company in Larsen Green or somewhere could start up "Packerland Batteries" (why not?) which have way more capacity than any other battery ever designed. Then that company would grow huge and then could build a gleaming tall HQ in a tower on the east side on the mall site. Dreaming again.

October start for downtown Green Bay project?

Financing secured for development at Younkers site

beginning of work on the WaterMark project in downtown Green Bay is within sight, city representatives told the Redevelopment Authority on Tuesday.


Construction could begin in October after a financial institution was found to complete the complicated financing for the riverfront development project.

WaterMark includes office, retail and condominium space in the former Younkers building on the east bank of the Fox River. It also includes Hagemeister Park (a restaurant facing the Fox River), the Green Bay Children's Museum and a parking garage on North Washington Street.

John Vetter of VetterDenk Architechts, Milwaukee, is the developer.

The financing package sets up like this:

•The city is loaning Vetter $3.5 million at 5.5 percent interest for up to seven years.


•Calumet County Bank will loan him $4.5 million for 30 months.


•The Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority will provide Vetter a loan for 20 percent of the value of the project for seven years, or about $2.5 million, using new market tax credits.

Construction had been expected to start this summer, but the company that typically dealt with WHEDA to sell those tax credits went bankrupt, setting the project back once again.

City Attorney Allison Swanson said a financial institution has agreed to purchase the tax credits, the remaining link in the project.

She said a closing date on the loans should be scheduled "shortly."

Redevelopment Authority Chairman Harry Maier said the closing, which would allow construction to begin could happen by October.

"The fact that it's moving toward a closing date is certainly positive news. I just want to see some boots on the ground," Maier said.


October? Really? :rofl:

ok, maybe a pipe dream.. In Milwaukee, I've seen a permanent farmers' market site. It's outdoors, but they have permanent tables, it's covered, etc. What about a combo space that has a permanent outdoor farmers' market site coupled with an indoor space?

Green bikes: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090812/GPG0101/908120491/1207/GPG01/Green-Bay-rolls-out-revised-bike-format

Local stimulus update 1: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090811/GPG0101/908110421/-1/archive Can click on chart to the right.

Local stimulus update 2: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090811/GPG0101/908110420/-1/archive

Downtown Packer sites from the past: packerland.blogspot.com/

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-7.jpg

From yesterday's Press-Gazette.

ok, maybe a pipe dream.. In Milwaukee, I've seen a permanent farmers' market site. It's outdoors, but they have permanent tables, it's covered, etc. What about a combo space that has a permanent outdoor farmers' market site coupled with an indoor space?

I like the combo idea. Tearing down the mall would leave space next to the JCP building that was suggested to be a park but it could include an entrance to the building with an overhang and permanent booths set up along that wall. It could still be a park-like setting. A market like that could run Mon., Tues., Thurs. and Fri. with the bigger markets on Sat. and Wed. at their current locations.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-7.jpg

From yesterday's Press-Gazette.

I see the Brown County un-employment rate has really bounced with the implementation of the pork packages. It's only going to get worse. Wait until the health care fiasco taxes our local small (& large) businesses out of existence. "Made in America" will be a thing of the past.

The general consensus of economists is that had the U.S. government not intervened, the recession would have been worse and perhaps could have even become a depression. That's the lesson we learned from the Great Depression, when government was slow to react (in the right ways) as private enterprise failed. Even the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, a conservative group if ever there was one, supported and lobbied for passage of the economic stimulus package. Unemployment is what economists call a lagging economic indicator and is likely to be high for some months, and may increase more, before beginning to come down. Economists estimate the stimulus package so far has contributed about 1% to the GDP and has provided or saved up to a million jobs. With that said, most of the stimulus spending is expected to take place the last half of this year and throughout next year.

Although the public doesn't like the "bank bailouts," first Bush with Henry Paulson and then Obama with Timothy Geithner last fall and winter did prevent the collapse of the U.S. banking system with their bank-loan program and other measures, including those taken by the Federal Reserve. (And people don't appreciate just how close to an economic collapse we were, from everything I've read.) Again, another lesson learned from 80 years ago, when banks went under en masse and the Depression worsened. Some of those bank loans are now starting to be paid back, with interest.

As to the national debt, I was one of those hollering for the last eight years that we should be paying down the debt, getting the federal government's financial house in order and preparing for the day soon when massive federal payouts in Medicare and Social Security will be required because of the retirement of baby boomers. We had been paying down the debt in the 1990s but went back to our old ways after 2000. (Remember the famous line from Vice-President Cheney in 2002? "Deficits don't matter.") Now, though, with the recession — like it or not — spending by the federal government is the short-term remedy because private enterprise can't. Once the economy stabilizes — and it may well be in the process of doing that — the federal government has to turn its attention once again to belt tightening. And it will, because both political and economic survival are at stake.

From an article in Salon earlier this year: "In our time, the Republican Party has compiled an impressive history of talking about fiscal responsibility while running up unrivaled deficits and debt. Of the roughly $11 trillion in federal debt accumulated to date, more than 90 percent can be attributed to the tenure of three presidents: Ronald Reagan, who used to complain constantly about runaway spending; George Herbert Walker Bush, reputed to be one of those old-fashioned green-eyeshade Republicans; and his spendthrift son George "Dubya" Bush, whose trillion-dollar war and irresponsible tax cuts accounted for nearly half the entire burden."

Latest economic report from the Fed today: news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090812/ap_on_bi_ge/us_fed_interest_rates;_ylt=AhLHH6oHhUO21IXaqvr.72.s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTMzazY4aDBwBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwODEyL3VzX2ZlZF9pbnRlcmVzdF9yYXRlcwRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzIEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2ZlZG1vcmVob3BlZg--

The bottom line is I could provide links to hundreds of current articles with topics about how sales have dipped below expected levels, home foreclosures are up, jobless claims are surging...etc. It isn't going to solve anything. Jobless rates could be at 50% and you will blame the republicans & try to claim that obama saved 50 million jobs. It's like talking to a rock.
You are the same guy who read some posting in the on line local paper & assumed it was me because he called the mayor "squiggy". I wish I could take credit for thinking of "squiggy". You then proceeded to write a profanity laced post & tell me how I should drive my car off a cliff. If that's the way you draw your conclusions & facts, we're not going to get anywhere.
I'm not trying to pick a fight. You just keep making these post suggesting the economy is doing fine...blah..blah..blah. I know I'm pretty much in minority in this forum. That's fine. I'll take the heat.

Listen, I'm not going to bore everyone on this board with an endless catfight between you and me. I put up the Press-Gazette chart on the local stimulus allocations because I thought it was well-done and a helpful summary. You responded with your thoughts, I responded with mine (at length).

Regarding what happened in April, yes, I did use profanity — after you implied I was a socialist when I expressed support for the federal stimulus program. And I had expressed my support, mind you, in a perfectly respectful way in response to some interesting thoughts from Puant. After your "socialism" post, I fought back. I concluded then: "Just keep driving that car of yours off the cliff in your blind faith to a failed ideology." That's hardly telling you personally to drive off a cliff. In addition to that, perhaps not in the Press-Gazette forums, but on this forum in the past you have repeatedly referred to the mayor of Green Bay as "Squiggy." That's a cheap shot and a low blow. Even though I'm not particularly a fan of his, I'll come to his defense. Show respect.

At any rate, let's let it go. We're boring people. Most of the time I enjoyed your posts in the past and appreciated your thoughts and links. Hope you continue. Just, in my opinion, be careful about name-calling and making unfounded accusations. On my way now to Door County to see "The Tempest."

I've got the perfect solution to solve our differences: Let's all just start screaming unintelligibly at each other, so as to drown out all civil discourse and debate. Yep, that's the best way to handle any deep and complicated issue. Or so I'm told.

All right. Well. Moving on.

I'm curious how that "Young Professionals" meeting went. Sounds like they did what I was thinking about doing, which is to get together and discuss all things DTGB.

OliverDP, care to fill us in? Thanks!

P.S. Taking the kids to Milwaukee next week...we'll probably do the Zoo. What else could we do that's "kid-friendly" but also interesting for a guy like me?

P.S. Taking the kids to Milwaukee next week...we'll probably do the Zoo. What else could we do that's "kid-friendly" but also interesting for a guy like me?
I've heard the Betty Brinn Children's Museum is pretty good. And since it is downtown, very close to the lake and the art museum, I think that would be interesting for a "guy like you".

P.S. Taking the kids to Milwaukee next week...we'll probably do the Zoo. What else could we do that's "kid-friendly" but also interesting for a guy like me?
Yep, you will like Betty Brin, its very near the lake and a short stroll to the MAM and Pier Wisconsin. I know that there is also the history museum but I havn't been there in a while so I have no comment, my kids love the beach, we always go to Bradford a short drive north along the lake. I think that your kids might be a bit to young, but the miller brewery tour is cool, big industrial stuff rules. Of course there are many smaller breweries, but the kids may not enjoy as much as you might. And oh yeh, we also like the riverwalk, there is a lot of boat traffic, but dont do it with a stroller. If you get down to the Intermodal station take some pictures, we... Ok I like trains.

Beyond that, especially in cities the size of GB, I just see very little evidence that the death of the suburb is at hand. Distances aren't that great, people like them, people are invested in them, and they aren't all going to up and move downtown any time soon. As I've said, nobody wants to see options to make urban living better in Green Bay, or to make more transit options available, etc. than me, but at the same time it's just a fact that many/most people around here don't want to live downtown... and that's okay. What we don't want to do is ruin progress in the name of making the downtown some sort of car-free utopia that's not coming. Providing parking is just necessary. It allows people who use cars to get downtown, work downtown, spend money downtown, and help make sustainable the sort of things needed to make the downtown livable.

In the end, we need options. It makes no sense to me to keep things as they are where one virtually HAS to use a car, but it makes equally little sense to build things in a way that ignores the fact that most people use cars. The former could be a recipe for disaster, the latter will be.

I just wanted to chime in, I live in a suburban area and I hate it along with many others I know, we live here because it really is the only decent option for the under the $150K range that wasn't "ghetto". I think that I will never live downtown because I will always be priced out of what I want or at least think I want. We can have better designed urban and suburban areas, but fear that everything will always be so-so. De Pere and Howard are OK, they at least have sidewalks. I guess that I really didn't appreciate sidewalks when I had them at my parents house, now that my kids want to ride their bikes. I hate the fact there there are no sidewalks where I live. When you walk around you notice how many people there are that just don't really care about anyone but themselves. The more I walk the less I respect the car. Do people know that its the law to STOP for people while in the crosswalk? Instead people shout profanities and Honk like the person walking is breaking the law... Whatever- just another useless rant on my part. Sorry but frustrated.:rant:

^^ I think there are a lot of people like you, myself included. That's why I want more options. That's why I think a trolley would be great to help revitalize near downtown neighborhoods and give people like yourself the option of having a house, yard, sidewalks, and access to a wide area without driving. At the same time, there are many, many people who live in suburbs and like it fine, and the downtown needs to make sure to accommodate those people as well. Options, diversity, accommodation... those are the keys to a healthy downtown and a healthy area economy.

Puant, I guess I mistook this:

And a parking ramp does NOT equal "Urban" to me.

OK, yes parking ramps are "urban" but they are nasty urban.

as a general dislike for parking ramps. In an ideal world I agree about hiding them. I think when the mall site is redeveloped there will be opportunity for this. I disagree about the Cherry Ramp though, as an example. I mean, it could be prettier, but I don't think it's a bad thing at all. To characterize it as having "adversely affected much of the block around it" misses the mark. It was once a surface lot. Now it has brought at least some (about as much as it could while allowing access for the cars) retail space to the block. That's a much more active use from a pedestrian perspective. It's also allowed many times more cars to fit in the same space, a gain for all surrounding businesses. It's also enabled Nicolet Bank to exist, and I'd argue that Nicolet has been beneficial to that block. I don't know this for sure, but I'm betting it helped convince APAC to move to Baylank Bank, and I'd argue that 1,000 jobs downtown helps the block. About the only loss is the view from Angelina's courtyard, which isn't exactly a disaster. I'd bet that the nearby parking helps the Adams St. business more than seeing the back of a ramp hurts. I also think it helps serve the Meyer well, and the success of the Meyer is certainly key to progress downtown.

Maybe that ramp isn't the ideal thing, but when trying to build the downtown back from the depths it had sunk to, I'd argue that it was a key addition.

just a quick response; GBSurveyor, i just bought a condo downtown in April, prices range from 90,000 to 200,000 in just my complex. More expensive condos are north of me. My complex has open house every weekend saturday and sunday 12-2pm (Riverside place condominiums)

ok, maybe a pipe dream.. In Milwaukee, I've seen a permanent farmers' market site. It's outdoors, but they have permanent tables, it's covered, etc. What about a combo space that has a permanent outdoor farmers' market site coupled with an indoor space?

If you ever saw the original plans/thoughts for the Larsen Green this was included. Some of the newer plans/drawings have scaled it back, but I believe it is still a hoped for part of the development. :)

Market Overload! I'm beginning to worry that suddenly there will be too many markets downtown. I'm aware of a least three separate efforts: a broadway farmer's market indoors, the urban food coop initiative, an organic grocery attached to a proposal for the site at the corner of Washington and Walnut, not to mention I don't think that OBI has entirely given up on its effort to lure Trader Joe's (though I don't think that will ever work). Something will come of all of this hopefully, but if every effort is successful there will be a lot of toe stepping.

I'm curious how that "Young Professionals" meeting went. Sounds like they did what I was thinking about doing, which is to get together and discuss all things DTGB.

OliverDP, care to fill us in? Thanks!

Sorry for the late response guys. Event was Wednesday and I was out of town for a wedding the last couple days. Onto the news...

The event was very informative with a great turnout, I would say over 40 people. This may have had something to do with lunch at Big Tomatoes, but there seemed to be genuine interest in the news. It was my first personal encounter with Jeff Mirkes and I was pretty impressed with his sincere enthusiasm. He went over a lot of the developments (and redevelopments) DTGB in the past 10 years and it really is remarkable about all the progress that has taken place. He touched on the continued work on the CityDeck and had new pictures and even a board that is being used as the construction material. Other topics included Watermark and how they really feel they are close to getting that project off the ground. I didn't get any concrete dates, but did get a good vibe (I know, I know... we've all heard it before). Jeff also talked a bit about Site 4 and how they are working with a developer who is still very interested. He had pics and I thought they looked a bit different than the last design I saw, but the same general concept with the curved entrance on the corner. He mentioned they would need 4 of the proposed 6 floors to be reserved before anything could move forward. That project seemed a little longer-term than the Watermark, of course. There was also a bit of discussion about the stimulus plan and the mall being torn down. Jeff shares a similar view with many of us and believes the mall and obstructed street grid is the biggest barrier DT at the moment. Again, no dates, but he mentioned this was one of the top things he would like to see happen. He at least touched on all major aspects of the DT (Bullfrogs stadium included), but with only a 30 minute presentation there obviously isn't a lot of time to dive into great detail.

After the lunch I stuck around to chat with him for a few minutes. I told him about all us crazy people on this board and that we sometimes get together to have a brew and chat about everything DT. I asked Jeff if he would be interested in joining us sometime and he said "absolutely". We can either just hang out and chat, ask questions, and find out how we can get involved, or I'm sure he would do his formal little presentation for us. I really think this is a great opportunity and would be more than happy to coordinate a little get-together with us and Jeff. Maybe throw out a few dates that would work for us and see when he is available.

Anybody interested?

Market Overload! I'm beginning to worry that suddenly there will be too many markets downtown. I'm aware of a least three separate efforts: a broadway farmer's market indoors, the urban food coop initiative, an organic grocery attached to a proposal for the site at the corner of Washington and Walnut, not to mention I don't think that OBI has entirely given up on its effort to lure Trader Joe's (though I don't think that will ever work). Something will come of all of this hopefully, but if every effort is successful there will be a lot of toe stepping.

One is enough. But each little district needs their own shiny locket to lure in developers. Combine On Broadway, DTGBI and Olde Main districts and come up with a comprehensive strategic marketing plan for the whole. This competition between the districts is holding Green Bay back. I see no benefit in continuing on the current track of competition within such a small geographic area.

Too many chiefs, not enough indians.

The corporate world increased efficiency in the late '90s by cutting over-bloated mid-management positions. Why do we need THREE BIDs when ONE can do the job more efficiently!

a broadway farmer's market indoors, the urban food coop initiative, an organic grocery attached to a proposal for the site at the corner of Washington and Walnut...

I'm not sure these things function in the same way, so I'm not sure they compete as such with each other, or with the Save-a-Lot that's already down there. Plus, the farmers market's on Broadway, the theoretical organic grocery would be downtown, and the coop may well end up on Main St. So they may not compete in a geographic sense. Plus, just from a free market perspective, why not let the market test different ideas and see what works? Obviously we'd not want to encourage two of the same things to move next door to each other, but I'm not sure what you are talking about can't work.

It was my first personal encounter with Jeff Mirkes and I was pretty impressed with his sincere enthusiasm.

Thanks for the update. Jeff's great. He's made DGBI an enthusiasm-based organization, and anyone who feeds off/adds to that enthusiasm can make a difference.

Why do we need THREE BIDs when ONE can do the job more efficiently!

Part of it has to do with the funding for each district being different. But beyond that, DBGI and Olde Main share the same staff, and many of the committees have been combined. So while they have different budgets and Boards, they in most ways function as one organization now.

"ghetto"???
Green Bay does not have any neighborhoods that are truly "ghetto", whatever you mean by that. Actually, some of Green Bay's so-called older "inner-city" traditional neighborhoods are very nice places to live with sidewalks, parks, tree-lined streets, many things to actually walk to, and some of the friendliest people I have ever met.

Eddy

"ghetto"???
Green Bay does not have any neighborhoods that are truly "ghetto", whatever you mean by that. Actually, some of Green Bay's so-called older "inner-city" traditional neighborhoods are very nice places to live with sidewalks, parks, tree-lined streets, many things to actually walk to, and some of the friendliest people I have ever met.

Eddy

C'mon "inner-city" and "ghetto" are the same thing... all humor aside I agree with you, however there are pockets that exist in some of these really nice areas that make my wife uncomfortable, whatever. I really just base the use of the word "ghetto" on something that is different from the norm, a very dynamic use. As the term is expressed on this board quite often, it seems to take on varying opinions which is fine. Plus I have 3 vehicles 2 kayaks, 6 bikes, 2 bike trailers, 2 lawn mowers a rotor tiller and a wood splitter. What I really need a 6 car garage.

I just moved downtown and found this forum not too long ago. I'm glad there are other people who care about the growth and prosperity of the downtown area. I look forward to future discussion

Welcome Zeko.

man has this forum tired... Not even a Brent Favre comment.

When is that first get together scheduled? I really miss my tuesday softball night, I vote for tuesday night. Preferally somewhere with some good brew :cheers:

man has this forum tired... Not even a Brent Favre comment.

When is that first get together scheduled? I really miss my tuesday softball night, I vote for tuesday night. Preferally somewhere with some good brew :cheers:

From the Minnesota side we had full media coverage Tuesday including a helicopter following Childress's Escalade with Favre to Winter Park. It reminded people of the OJ slow chase. Don't be too carried away by the national coverage, there are lots of people here who are not in favor of the Favre.

Glad to know people are interested in the "get-together". I got some good responses and suggestions on my blog and by email.

Here are my thoughts after weighing the comments I received:

Since we are a group interested in things "all about" the downtown, we should move the get-together around to different places so that we can sample different parts of it. This might be a tad confusing in terms of wondering where the meeting will be, but I think we all stay pretty well connected here with this forum, emails and my blog we can easily find out where and when the next get-together is.

Speaking of when, monthly meetings might be a bit too much, but quarterly not enough. So, again this mgiht seem confusing, but I'm thinking every-other-month (again, maybe confusing but we can coordinate via the internets.)

Good brew is important but I'd also like to consider those who don't drink (just in case there are one or two non-drinkers living in Green Bay) and try to find places that also have coffee and/or something else.

So without further yakking, let's kick this thing off: Let's meet at 8:00 PM on Thursday, August 27th at Titletown Brewing Co up on the 2nd level.

I'll follow up with some sort of loose agenda, though I think this should be informal. I'll see if Jeff Mirkes is busy for one, if not maybe he can show us the slideshow or something. Any other suggestions?

P.S. Favre is dead to me.

HermosaBeachBoy will attend.

Let's meet at 8:00 PM on Thursday, August 27th at Titletown Brewing Co up on the 2nd level.



I work nights so I can't make the meeting, but I'd like to. Take some photos to post though.

sweet, that time/date works for me... I'll attend

Hinterland Brewery expanding production: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090821/GPG03/908210533/-1/archive

So without further yakking, let's kick this thing off: Let's meet at 8:00 PM on Thursday, August 27th at Titletown Brewing Co up on the 2nd level.

I'll follow up with some sort of loose agenda, though I think this should be informal. I'll see if Jeff Mirkes is busy for one, if not maybe he can show us the slideshow or something. Any other suggestions?

Great idea, but unfortunately I won't be able to make that one, either. I have a FF Draft where I will be pummeling the person that drafts Favre :bash:

Puant, if you do get a hold of Jeff, feel free to let him know that you are on the same message board as I am (Josh Oliver - from the Current event at Big Tomatoes) so he knows this is the group of folks I was talking about. Have a great time, looking forward to the next one.

^^ For what's worth, Jeff and the gang at DGBI are fully aware of this little board.

Unrelated, I ate at the new Fetaz today for lunch. I had a seared duck sandwich (I think it was seared, I know it was duck). It was tasty, I enjoyed it.

The $11 million WaterMark project: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090822/GPG03/908220550/-1/archive

Chefusion: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200990821060

^^

Finally. I am tired of walking by the huge hole on Washington street. What an eye sore! I can't wait for that project to start and for the CityDeck to be completed

^^Chicago Envy I agree with you!

I'd like for them to scrap the hideous design for the children's parking ramp...errr, museum...., and build something better for a children's museum. The kids deserve more than an ugly parking ramp.

The rest of your post makes a lot of sense to me as well.

What can we do to make any of this happen?


Thank you! Sorry for the late reply,I've been very busy lately and have just started catching up on all the comments.

Thanks for reading my post. As far as how we can do this? I have no idea.

I think most of what has happened downtown has been good. A few mistakes but nothing that should derail the whole deal. However I feel we are at a crossroads here and some of these key projects over the next 5 years will have major impact on DT.

I'm sorry,I think Watermark/childrens museum is a mistake. It's typical of how 'we' do things. It's boring and uninspired. Childrens museum would look so good on that Walnut/Washington corner. And,with a modern, somewhat funky design..nothing 'weird' but something to catch people's eyes...... and to add some color to that corner you could really make an impact w/o the need for a 10 floor tower that can't be filled.

Honestly,I think the biggest thing towards making some of this happen is we need someone in power to take a chance on something BOLD.

Bold does not have to mean risky,weird,ugly or out of place.

Bold in design,creativity of use and having vision on location. DT needs some color. I feel like DT is being painted with the same 3 crayons.

De Pere requests a Green Bay RTA: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090823/GPG0101/908230685/-1/archive

On Broadway looking for a new director: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090824/GPG0101/908240465/1207/GPG01/On-Broadway-Inc.-to-seek-director

Latest local stimulus update: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090823/GPG0101/908230696/-1/archive

Latest economic outlook (U.S. & global) from the United States Federal Reserve: www.nytimes.com/2009/08/22/business/economy/22fed.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Federal%20Reserve%20Jackson%20Hole&st=cse

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090822/GPG03/908220550

Here's the good part.. Some moron posted a ridiculous rant about downtown, vetter, etc., that was...well....ridiculous. The first response was this (someone 'fess up--I know it was someone from this board who blasted the guy..)

thearthurdent wrote:

Also, John Vetter is responsible for H1N1, the 9/11 attacks and the melting of the ice caps.

Where to start. The new boardwalk is not a Vetter project. The only people raising questions about the ability of ships to get past the boardwalk are the "we'll never support anything done by anyone else crowd," and they will still be doing the Chicken Little dance 10 years from now.

The artwork along the river is not a Vetter project. And why would we want a "cultured class' when we have the 4gbdowntowns of the world. Next we'll be trying to get college grad-y-etts to move to Green Bay.

I believe the owners of Hagemeister Park -- and that would not be Vetter -- know it was 'not even located there.' Somebody should probably inform the county that Dick Resch never actually lived where the Resch Center is and that Curly Lambeau never actually coached at the corner of Lombardi Avenue and Oneida Street.

But, hey, as an ingnorant rant against any sort of progress, nice job.

Wasn't me. The first guy's part about ships navigating through the channel cracked me up. What a knucklehead. But it is hard to argue with "What a maze of fuzzy funding mechanisms." I mean, I think in the end that this site is, by its nature, such a mess that the "maze" is necessary, but it has been a mess.

Everthing is all set for our Thursday Night's meeting of "Downtown Enthusiasts" (we need a better name for our group).

Jeff Mirkes will be there to give a slideshow and a little talk. Hope you can join us!

We'll be at Titletown Brewing (http://packerland.blogspot.com/2009/08/august-27th-get-together-at-titletown.html)on the 2nd level, just past the bar, starting at 8 PM.

I'm looking forward to this!

Everthing is all set for our Thursday Night's meeting of "Downtown Enthusiasts" (we need a better name for our group).

Jeff Mirkes will be there to give a slideshow and a little talk. Hope you can join us!

We'll be at Titletown Brewing (http://packerland.blogspot.com/2009/08/august-27th-get-together-at-titletown.html)on the 2nd level, just past the bar, starting at 8 PM.

I'm looking forward to this!

Sweet. I will try and make it. I always love a good J. Blood and a slideshow about downtown...:cheers:

GB Transit western hub / route changes take place next Monday: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090825/GPG0101/908250534/1207/GPG01/Green-Bay-transit-director-foresees-western-hub-in-2-years

I'm considering Geo-thermal heating/cooling, anyone one have direct experience with it. Thanks.

I'm considering Geo-thermal heating/cooling, anyone one have direct experience with it. Thanks.

I've been told by a friend who owns a local plumbing facility that installs geo thermal heat transfer components in both residential and commercial structures that depending on what equipment you buy, the electricity costs to get the energy from the ground is most of the times beyond what you would save by not burning natural gas or using the electricity to cool your home.

Buuutttt... not all stuff is that inefficient, I'm just saying to do your research on what you are buying.

I will also try to get out to Titletown Thursday. The newborn may have different plans though.

I actually tried to eat dinner there last Friday with some friends from out of town, but it was an hour and forty five minute wait, so we walked across the street to the Hinterland lounge and had better beer and probably better food even! Good thing to see both facilities doing well in this slower economy. My friends were really impressed with Hinterland (as we have always been as well).

I'm considering Geo-thermal heating/cooling, anyone one have direct experience with it. Thanks.

I just sent you a private message on the topic.

Sweet. I will try and make it. I always love a good J. Blood and a slideshow about downtown...:cheers:

I have the day off from work on Friday and SERIOUSLY considered making the four hour trek from La Crosse to attend this meeting, but unfortunately cannot. Yes, I am that guy :lol: It sounds like I may become a Green Bay in the next several months and I really wanted to come up this weekend to visit (the soon to be fiance is from Appleton but works in Green Bay), but I have to scout a high school football game on Friday night, so needless to say, have to stick around here. It would be great to meet you guys over some adult beverages and listen to Jeff speak. Hopefully next meeting! Would anyone be so kind to post an overview, photos or news/info on any projects that are in the works now or in the future??? Be sure to ask good questions (lol) like mall redevelopment, Sites 1 & 4, Daily Planet site, Federal Courhouse, Larsen Green or any infill projects. I know that Jeff is positve and enthusiastic about downtown, so please share your ideas and support and think big! Tell him that we will help in developing downtown in anyway (though for most, including myself, it will be support, though I will bring gloves and a sledgehammer for the mall and I sure as heck know that Puant and you others would too). It is time for a urban, dense, aesthetically pleasing, and eclectic downtown and we are with him. Thanks again fellas and I cannot wait to hear some of your posts! It is truly appreciated.

I have the day off from work on Friday and SERIOUSLY considered making the four hour trek from La Crosse to attend this meeting. Yes, I am that guy :lol:uiu

I will buy you a Monster Hops or two if you drive here all the way from LaCrosse:cheers: (as long as you don't then drive home afterwards...their Monster HOps is some really strong but good stuff!)

Thanks SRg22. I've done research trying to find horror stories relating to geothermal heating/cooling. They aren't the easiest to find. The positive feedback on the system far outweighs the negative ones. And it sounds like the negative ones are probably the result of faulty or poor instalation or other factors.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/GrandUnion_merged.jpg

Plans taking shape for a six-story office building next to the Meyer Theatre.
www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090827/GPG0506/90827084/1978

In past plans, this building was going to be something like eight stories and was going to be called the Grand Union (drawing above). Not sure if that's the building still on the books now or if something different will be built. Stay tuned. Probably more information in tomorrow's Press-Gazette or perhaps at tonight's Skyscraper confab.

Beat me to it.

Grand Union Part Deux...

Meyer Theatre board announces plan to buy building next door
It would have entertainment area, restaurant, office space, banquet facility
BY WARREN GERDS • wgerds@greenbaypressgazette.com • August 27, 2009

Plans for a new building adjacent to the Meyer Theatre are taking shape as board that oversees the theater reshapes its finances.

“The building next door has an offer to purchase that’s signed,” Paul Jadin, chairman of the Meyer corporation board and outgoing president, said Thursday. “If we can make that happen by November, we’ve got about $565,000 at play there, and that isn’t earmarked for the debt.”

The adjacent building would be six stories, primarily office space, with possibly a first-floor restaurant and second story entertainment area and banquet facility with a connecting hallway to the theater, Jadin said.

The partner in the project may be named soon.

The original cost of the renovated 1930 theater that reopened in 2002 was to be $5.5 million, but cost overruns tacked on another $4 million.

“We’ve pretty much wiped out $2.5 million of that by doing the fundraiser and through the extraordinary generosity of Associated Bank,” Jadin said.

The remaining $1.5 million debt will be amortized over 30 years, “which is very, very doable,” he said.

Taking over as board president for Jadin as of Tuesday, is businessman Rob Riordan, who has been the co-chairman of the fundraisers with Jadin.

“It’s going to be a good-looking building, and it’s going to be one we can leverage with the Meyer,” Riordan said.

Also part of the financial scene is the newly formed Friends of the Meyer, which supports the theater through membership donations and fundraising events.

“The idea is to get deeper into the roots of the community with the friends group,” Riordan said.

Is anyone going to the walk and talk with Mayor Schmitt tonight?

Love the Hop Monster!

Are you guys meeting in the separate room upstairs?

I will buy you a Monster Hops or two if you drive here all the way from LaCrosse:cheers: (as long as you don't then drive home afterwards...their Monster HOps is some really strong but good stuff!)

Thanks Jeff for the great presentation tonight. I am sure glad I came. I love the enthusiasm from everyone and look forward to future meetings/get togethers.

100% agree! It was great talking to everyone and Jeff did a great job! I look forward to doing it again!

Oh... and I am looking forward to my bottle of wine!

Thanks Jeff for the great presentation tonight. I am sure glad I came. I love the enthusiasm from everyone and look forward to future meetings/get togethers.

100% agree! It was great talking to everyone and Jeff did a great job! We look forward to doing it again!


.......how do you pronounce Puant?.........and what is it anyway!?

Yea thanks Jeff for the preparations and beverages! thanks to Jeff Mirkes as well for the presentation! Good to meet everyone.

I went to the Skyscraper forum last night. Never again. Night Rider and Tower Park duked it out in the parking lot. nowpc2 threw his beer at Puant. Jschmuck backed his truck over HermosaBeachBoy's bike. GBSurveyor and titletown were in tears. Brutal.

Big new front-page story today on the Meyer building plans:
www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090828/GPG0101/908280661/1207/GPG01/Meyer-Theatre-modifies-plans-for-adjoining-building

41/Scheuring Road interchange construction begins in a year:
www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090828/GPG0101/908280656/1978

New signage along the Fox River Trail:
www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090827/GPG0101/908270565/-1/archive

Now come on Tower Park.. I would never throw my beer at Puant.. His maybe, but not mine.. :cheers:

On a related note, I am so pleased to see that so many people were downtown last night. I really hope that Leicht at Night happens next year and going forward.

I went to the Skyscraper forum last night. Never again. Night Rider and Tower Park duked it out in the parking lot. nowpc2 threw his beer at Puant. Jschmuck backed his truck over HermosaBeachBoy's bike. GBSurveyor and titletown were in tears. Brutal.

Thanks Jeff for the great presentation tonight. I am sure glad I came. I love the enthusiasm from everyone and look forward to future meetings/get togethers.

Will someone fill in what all was said and presented?:banana: Puant?

Thanks Jeff for the great presentation tonight. I am sure glad I came. I love the enthusiasm from everyone and look forward to future meetings/get togethers.

I was happy with the turnout: About 10 people showed up and Jeff's presentation was awesome. We got moved to the 1st level in one of the coach rooms where it was less noisy, getting started just after 8 PM. We all introduced ourselves (our real names as well as our SSC names). The presentation lasted over 2 hours I think. It was informal, lots of good discussion as we went along. Jeff had some great slides, and he has a knack for enthusiastically instilling confidence in downtown projects. He had some really interesting plans and renders that got me excited (modern, tall and cool building that actually has a good chance of getting built on a corner that would drastically change the face of downtown GB for the better).

Green Bay has a great leader there in Jeff Mirkes, I am so very grateful that he was so willing to take that much time out of his busy schedule (family & work) to talk with us!

100% agree! It was great talking to everyone and Jeff did a great job! I look forward to doing it again!

Oh... and I am looking forward to my bottle of wine!

Captain's Walk wine as a door prize. What a great night!

100% agree! It was great talking to everyone and Jeff did a great job! We look forward to doing it again!


.......how do you pronounce Puant?.........and what is it anyway!?

"Pooo aunt". Yeah, it comes from the French history of Green Bay. Back in teh 1600's when the French were looking for this place as a possible water route to the Far East, the French called this area "La Baye des Puants" which roughly means "the water stinks" or "the bay were the people stink" or something like that. Somehow a rumor got started that something smelled here even back in teh 1600s..., my guess is that it was Animax....

I went to the Skyscraper forum last night. Never again. Night Rider and Tower Park duked it out in the parking lot. nowpc2 threw his beer at Puant. Jschmuck backed his truck over HermosaBeachBoy's bike. GBSurveyor and titletown were in tears. Brutal.

...and that was what happened EARLY in the night. GBSurveyor, JSchmuck and I hung out until about 1 AM, you should have seen what happened then...

Now come on Tower Park.. I would never throw my beer at Puant.. His maybe, but not mine.. :cheers:

Too funny! On a related note, I am so pleased to see that so many people were downtown last night. I really hope that Leicht at Night happens next year and going forward.

Leicht Nite looked great, Johnny Wad sounded great. I imagine there were more of you who INTENDED to show up at this meeting, but ended up at Leicht Park instead.

Again, thanks MUCH to Jeff Mirkes and for all of you for showing up and making for a good night. I wasn't sure what to expect, but all went better than could have been expected!!

I'd like to write more but kids beckon. After being out all night last night I better make up for it now.

I was happy with the turnout: About 10 people showed up and Jeff's presentation was awesome. We got moved to the 1st level in one of the coach rooms where it was less noisy, getting started just after 8 PM. We all introduced ourselves (our real names as well as our SSC names). The presentation lasted over 2 hours I think. It was informal, lots of good discussion as we went along. Jeff had some great slides, and he has a knack for enthusiastically instilling confidence in downtown projects. He had some really interesting plans and renders that got me excited (modern, tall and cool building that actually has a good chance of getting built on a corner that would drastically change the face of downtown GB for the better).

Green Bay has a great leader there in Jeff Mirkes, I am so very grateful that he was so willing to take that much time out of his busy schedule (family & work) to talk with us!



Captain's Walk wine as a door prize. What a great night!



"Pooo aunt". Yeah, it comes from the French history of Green Bay. Back in teh 1600's when the French were looking for this place as a possible water route to the Far East, the French called this area "La Baye des Puants" which roughly means "the water stinks" or "the bay were the people stink" or something like that. Somehow a rumor got started that something smelled here even back in teh 1600s..., my guess is that it was Animax....



...and that was what happened EARLY in the night. GBSurveyor, JSchmuck and I hung out until about 1 AM, you should have seen what happened then...



Leicht Nite looked great, Johnny Wad sounded great. I imagine there were more of you who INTENDED to show up at this meeting, but ended up at Leicht Park instead.

Again, thanks MUCH to Jeff Mirkes and for all of you for showing up and making for a good night. I wasn't sure what to expect, but all went better than could have been expected!!

I'd like to write more but kids beckon. After being out all night last night I better make up for it now.

Thanks Puant! Could you mention what the tall render is that you are talking about? Also, I know that Jeff instills confidence in downtown, but what are his thoughts for the next five years? Will things really take off?

Thanks Puant! Could you mention what the tall render is that you are talking about? Also, I know that Jeff instills confidence in downtown, but what are his thoughts for the next five years? Will things really take off?

The Grand Union. I thought this former render (below) was cool, but the new design is about 40 times better! Although the P-G had an article on this plan today, I don't think the render is public yet. The "sneak peek" was worth coming to the meeting! THis Grand Union thing is one plan that seems to keep getting better and better.

Anyway, here is the former plan, I can't wait until we can post images of the new one because it is so much better!

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/GrandUnion_merged.jpg

Yeah the new rendering is great, especially since downtown has none alike for this awesome architecture. I would of stuck around later last night but I had to make an important phone call unrelated to the meeting/presentation. Hey I see the Ray Kroc Center is breaking ground in Spring 2010. I sure hope so, this has also been pushed back again and again.

I went to the Skyscraper forum last night. Never again. Night Rider and Tower Park duked it out in the parking lot. nowpc2 threw his beer at Puant. Jschmuck backed his truck over HermosaBeachBoy's bike. GBSurveyor and titletown were in tears. Brutal.

I said the word "squiggy" & Tower Park knocked me out. Never again :)
We'll maybe now & then.

there is a sratch on my TRUCK! A SCRATCH!!! :mad2:

I said the word "squiggy" & Tower Park knocked me out. Never again :)
We'll maybe now & then.

And did I mention Hal? Hal decides to bring his entire extended family to the event. That's why we had to move to a larger room.

Yeah the new rendering is great, especially since downtown has none alike for this awesome architecture. I would of stuck around later last night but I had to make an important phone call unrelated to the meeting/presentation. Hey I see the Ray Kroc Center is breaking ground in Spring 2010. I sure hope so, this has also been pushed back again and again.

Can anyone describe what the building will look like? Glass/Brick/Steel?

Can anyone describe what the building will look like? Glass/Brick/Steel?

http://www.e-0.de/uploaded_images/IMG_0245-785922.jpg

Great....ha

http://www.sagreenbay.org/images/kroccenter/aerial2.jpg

A few quick questions about the new proposal for the Daily Planet site since I was one of the people that planned on attending the meeting at Titletown but ended up at Leicht Park instead.

1. Is it still called the Grand Union?

2. Does this plan have anything to do with what Steve Schneider was talking about proposing for the site mainly as an expansion of office space for his wireless business?

3. Does the new plan go right up to the curb or is it set back and how far does it extend to Walnut?

A few quick questions about the new proposal for the Daily Planet site since I was one of the people that planned on attending the meeting at Titletown but ended up at Leicht Park instead.

1. Is it still called the Grand Union?

2. Does this plan have anything to do with what Steve Schneider was talking about proposing for the site mainly as an expansion of office space for his wireless business?

3. Does the new plan go right up to the curb or is it set back and how far does it extend to Walnut?

1. Not that I know of

2. No

3. Yes, up to the curb on both streets

Let's getting this downtown rocking, the momentum is starting to take off. I really need this downtown to get completed before I pitch my movie in 1-2 years. Friday night after I got back from the bars, Vince Vaughn (the actor) paged me. As some of you may know, I am still working on my movie script. Hopefully it can take place in Green Bay, with all projects & boardwalk completed. This would be great for downtown & Green Bay's image.

If u are wondering, I was giving him a hard time about Yoville on FB, I really haven't took the time to learn that game.


http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/GreenBayWI/Vince.jpg

I was on my way to work, when I noticed a new bus model was being used by Green Bay Metro. Like the buses introduced in 2003, these buses are white New Flyer buses with blue, green, and gold-colored stripes across the middle. The differences are, that these buses are longer in comparison to the previous model and they have two sets of doors, instead of just one, as well as more seats.

They look like this model:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3569/3841450838_abcba791aa.jpg
...except it has the color scheme and cooling system used on this model:
http://busexplorer.com/NABus/Images/MidSize/GreenBayNewFlyer30ft.jpg


Bus routes that were decommissioned:
5 (Trolley) - Downtown Bay Beach

Bus routes that were added:
17 - DePere

Bus routes with their names changed:
2 - Main --> Danz/Bay Beach*
6 - W. Mason NWTC --> W. Mason/NWTC*
7 - UWGB Schmitt Park --> UWGB/Schmitt Park*
11 - All. DePere --> Allouez**
12 - Green Bay Ashwaubenon --> Green Bay/Ashwaubenon*
14 - Edison --> Main/Bellevue*
15 - Libal DePere --> Libal**
16 - Oneida Gaming --> Oneida/Gaming*
*Uses slash, full name appears on bus routes' signs.
**Name simplified for new routes.

Green Bay Metro also reconfigured all of its existing routes. Another route has been added for DePere, with a stop at the Walmart Supercenter, and no service to the terminal on University Avenue, thus requiring a transfer from 11 or 15 in downtown DePere near ShopKo. For more information on the changes, check out the GBM Blog.

I hope this change helps.

Has anyone here seen the new buses lately?

I took the bus yesterday, something I rarely do lately. The route I was on was using the new buses. You are correct they are larger (35ft) with double doors. I don't believe they add that much extra seating over the 30ft model because of the extra doors. Maybe 4 or 6 extra seats with much more standing room.

Overall they seem like nice additions and I am glad they did not go with the 30ft buses which I personally think are too small for routes that get riders.

As for the routes changes, most of the changes seem to be based on good ideas. They are covering some areas that needed to be covered and doing so with less wasted time.



I hope this change helps.

Has anyone here seen the new buses lately?

1. Not that I know of

2. No

3. Yes, up to the curb on both streets

A couple of other questions from the shindig the other night:

1.) What did Jeff say about the WaterMark. Did he mention anything about the Children's Museum and if it will be considered state of the art. Did anyone mention that they didn't like the design?

2.) Was there mention when information will be made available for the Daily Planet site? Groundbreaking (keeping fingers crossed), investors, etc?

3.) Danillo has had me curious ever since he made mention of the cool library renders. Any news with that?

4.) Anything regarding T Wall or the mall?

5.) Federal Courthouse?

6.) Site 4, Robert Sinclaire Architecture or even Site 1?

7.) Bullfrogs or the Brownfield site?

8.) Larsen Green or Broadway news?

Thanks!

From the City's website;

East River Trail Ribbon Cutting
Green Bay Mayor and area neighbors cut the ribbon for the new East River Trail at East Mason and Hartung streets. This new extension will eventually connect to the downtown Fox River Trail and will also extend out to the Baird Creek Trail to Interstate 43. The area at the intersection includes an open space dominated with a quaint gazebo and a trail sign decorated with plantings.

Another positive addition to the metro area. I'm a big fan of our trail system here. In the photo below it shows where the trail goes through East River Van Beaver Park. [Just a thought, that park would make an excellent location for new multistory residential units. Only half of it is being used anyway, there's three whole blocks there that are unused.(see pic below)] I think that there should be a bridge at the end of Porlier, Eliza or Emilie Streets connecting with East Lawn Park.
http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww359/GB-Pix/EastRiverVanBeaverPark.jpg

http://i735.photobucket.com/albums/ww359/GB-Pix/EastRiverVanBeaverPark-B.jpg

From the City's website;



Another positive addition to the metro area. I'm a big fan of our trail system here. In the photo below it shows where the trail goes through East River Van Beaver Park. [Just a thought, that park would make an excellent location for new multistory residential units. Only half of it is being used anyway, there's three whole blocks there that are unused.(see pic below)] I think that there should be a bridge at the end of Porlier, Eliza or Emilie Streets connecting with East Lawn Park.

I assume this was tongue-in-cheek sarcasm? Assuming you are not... here are the reasons why it will not work.

1. Where you overlayed the extra blocks of housing _is_ the developed part of the East River Van Beaver Park. (Note on your pic the brownish circles... those are baseball diamonds)
2. This is flood plain. Not even 100 year, but more like 10 year flood plain.
3. The DNR will never allow a building this close to the East River.

D

Can anyone describe what the building will look like? Glass/Brick/Steel?

Got the green light to post the image of the new render of the proposed building at the corner of Washington & Walnut (aka "Daily Planet" aka "Grand Union"). I really really like it, even better than the former design, and can't wait for this to happen.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/DailyPlanetSite-2009PlanRender.jpg

I assume this was tongue-in-cheek sarcasm? Assuming you are not... here are the reasons why it will not work.

1. Where you overlayed the extra blocks of housing _is_ the developed part of the East River Van Beaver Park. (Note on your pic the brownish circles... those are baseball diamonds)
2. This is flood plain. Not even 100 year, but more like 10 year flood plain.
3. The DNR will never allow a building this close to the East River.

D

The 'extra blocks of housing' on the lower map are actually lots that were plotted many many years ago and then vacated. You are correct, in saying that this is a flood-prone area; makes for a good park!

Buses
I rode my bike behind a couple of the new city buses. They are much less noisy than the old one and also less smelly. However I will miss the "Titletown Trolley". I remember when I first came to Green Bay and saw those things, I thought they were kinda cool I guess....Oh well time for the real trolley in the downtown loop.

^^
Very nice! It proves that a building doesn't have to be super high to give the downtown a nice urban feel. Just build good quality.

That rendering looks great! Thanks for posting.

That rendering looks great! Thanks for posting.

Holy flippin' smokes! That building is awesome! :banana: I pray that this happens. Just one handsome building like this will go such a long way in changing people's perceptions and creating momentum. Yes, that design is much, much better than the previous Grand Union. Woohoo!!!!!!

I love this design and I really hope it gets done.

Got the green light to post the image of the new render of the proposed building at the corner of Washington & Walnut (aka "Daily Planet" aka "Grand Union"). I really really like it, even better than the former design, and can't wait for this to happen.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/DailyPlanetSite-2009PlanRender.jpg

I assume this was tongue-in-cheek sarcasm? Assuming you are not... here are the reasons why it will not work.

1. Where you overlayed the extra blocks of housing _is_ the developed part of the East River Van Beaver Park. (Note on your pic the brownish circles... those are baseball diamonds)
2. This is flood plain. Not even 100 year, but more like 10 year flood plain.
3. The DNR will never allow a building this close to the East River.

D

I forgot about the floodplain. Puant is right about the area being platted out. I took the image from the County's website. Oh well, forever a park, saved by Mother Nature.

I Love the rendering for whatever it's called. My first thought was that it fits good. I think the combination of brick on the lower floors and all the glass at the corner works really well. This is much better than the Grand Union render.

:toilet:

It is okay, but nothing earth shattering. Obviously better than what is there now, but I have seen this design before. Oh yes, has kind of a Nicolet Bank Building esque look. To me the old design was a step out of our dull looking simple designed newer buildings downtown. So I guess, whatever. A little boring, but again better then what is there now... Yawn.

Nice work, Puant, in getting approval to post the rendering. A Skyscraper/Puant exclusive!

Just a thought. Not sure it's feasible or worthwhile. But Jeff Merkes had many interesting slides of downtown I'd never seen before. Any chance some of the highlights or more interesting ones could be posted here somewhere in a photo folder or something, if someone had the time to do the work?

packerland.blogspot.com

Am I the only one who likes the former design of the Grand Union better than the new? The former one was original, this new design remains me of several condos that have been built in Milwaukee.

Now I'm not saying I dislike the new design because I do, just that I like the former one better.

I think I like the new rendering better for a few reasons.
1) If you take the top 3 floors off the Grand Union I think it loses a lot of its appeal. Considering that we are even having this debate between a 6 story "tower" and a building that is 150% tells me that it is a darn good design.
2) There are a lot of complementing features on this new design. The verticality is helped a lot by the round glass over the entrance as well as the column of glass on the left side of the building. Also, the curved arch over the column of windows just to the right of the large glass section really complements the smooth curve of the entrance while adding a false sense of height be making the building look taller (think vertical stripes vs. horizontal stripes on a shirt).
3) The clean white on the building will complement the Bellin very nicely without overpowering it with too much glass.
4) I also love the inclusion of the 3rd tan color to offset the sections of the building and add dimension to it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the advanced look of the Grand Union, but I think this one looks better, fits GB better, and still holds that 'progressive' edge that DT needs.

I think I like the new rendering better for a few reasons.
1) If you take the top 3 floors off the Grand Union I think it loses a lot of its appeal. Considering that we are even having this debate between a 6 story "tower" and a building that is 150% tells me that it is a darn good design.
2) There are a lot of complementing features on this new design. The verticality is helped a lot by the round glass over the entrance as well as the column of glass on the left side of the building. Also, the curved arch over the column of windows just to the right of the large glass section really complements the smooth curve of the entrance while adding a false sense of height be making the building look taller (think vertical stripes vs. horizontal stripes on a shirt).
3) The clean white on the building will complement the Bellin very nicely without overpowering it with too much glass.
4) I also love the inclusion of the 3rd tan color to offset the sections of the building and add dimension to it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the advanced look of the Grand Union, but I think this one looks better, fits GB better, and still holds that 'progressive' edge that DT needs.

But will this get built?

From the sounds of it, it has a much better chance than the Grand Union or most other buildings downtown. I am actually optimistic about this one.

Got the green light to post the image of the new render of the proposed building at the corner of Washington & Walnut (aka "Daily Planet" aka "Grand Union").

Thanks Puant. Fairly Impressive. However, I worry that it will end up like the parking ramp across Walnut Street, with all the retail space available on ground level, but no takers.

Thanks Puant. Fairly Impressive. However, I worry that it will end up like the parking ramp across Walnut Street, with all the retail space available on ground level, but no takers.

I'm really kind of curious why those retail spots haven't gone yet. If you take a look at the foot traffic on that block of Washington during the work week, you would think that they would have no trouble leasing out the space. I'm sure there is the whole weekend daytime traffic issue, but with the Children's museum coming, there should be a definite increase.

One thing I would love to see in that spot is a Moe's/Panchero's type casual tex/mex burrito joint. I really think they would do well with the lunch crowd, in addition to the weekend bar goers. I do enjoy Taco Burrito Mexico occasionally, but it is a bit far for me to walk to during my hour or so lunch.

Another possibility would be some support type business for the people who live in the three major residential buildings on that block (well washington square is on the south block).

My guess is that the lease prices are somewhat high, combined with a slower economy are the main factors right now.

I absolutely love the new daily planet site rendering, it should fit in really nicely on that corner!

I think everyone is looking for someone else to be the first to try retail again in the area. I hope the get it going soon.

I'm really kind of curious why those retail spots haven't gone yet.

My guess is that the lease prices are somewhat high, combined with a slower economy are the main factors right now.

Went to Chefusion today. We had dinner upstairs and it was wonderful! I highly recommend you guys check it out.

........just a thought regarding the OLD and NEW designs.......I heard from a pretty good source that the 9 stories were not "architectually engineering-wise feasible"..............something about vibration driving the foundatation pilings to support 9 stories woud shake the Meyer Theater "innards" to pieces...????

........however driving for 6 stories won't hurt????

Anybody got any comments on that angle?

NEW 6 stories is OK by me....nice enough design in my book .....in the end it probably won't be the same anyway.........hence "render" not "approved" design..Ha! Ha!

I went back to the renders of the grand union, & copied & pasted the two so I could see them side by side. I always liked the grand union design, but I have to say that I like the new render better. I've spent a fair amount of time down in orlando for work, and there's lots of art deco design downtown. When you see lots of that design together, it looks nice--however I think that this building alone would look a little out of place. The new design seems to be very cohesive with the parking ramp across the road, and that addition to the meyer, along walnut street.

If we're dreaming here, I'd love to see the new design with the 9 stories of the grand union. I know height isn't everything, but it would be nice to see the start of a skyline...

you don't have to drive piles in the ground for deep foundations. it is a common option but another option that is also commonly used and does not require driving steel piles 60ft into the ground. they are called augured piles. a crane augurs down and when they get to bedrock they pump in grout while the augur is backed out of the hole. it is something that they are doing a lot of here in nebraska. seems like a good option for that situation

I think I like the new rendering better for a few reasons.
1) If you take the top 3 floors off the Grand Union I think it loses a lot of its appeal. Considering that we are even having this debate between a 6 story "tower" and a building that is 150% tells me that it is a darn good design.
2) There are a lot of complementing features on this new design. The verticality is helped a lot by the round glass over the entrance as well as the column of glass on the left side of the building. Also, the curved arch over the column of windows just to the right of the large glass section really complements the smooth curve of the entrance while adding a false sense of height be making the building look taller (think vertical stripes vs. horizontal stripes on a shirt).
3) The clean white on the building will complement the Bellin very nicely without overpowering it with too much glass.
4) I also love the inclusion of the 3rd tan color to offset the sections of the building and add dimension to it.

Don't get me wrong, I love the advanced look of the Grand Union, but I think this one looks better, fits GB better, and still holds that 'progressive' edge that DT needs.

I went back to the renders of the grand union, & copied & pasted the two so I could see them side by side. I always liked the grand union design, but I have to say that I like the new render better. I've spent a fair amount of time down in orlando for work, and there's lots of art deco design downtown. When you see lots of that design together, it looks nice--however I think that this building alone would look a little out of place. The new design seems to be very cohesive with the parking ramp across the road, and that addition to the meyer, along walnut street.

If we're dreaming here, I'd love to see the new design with the 9 stories of the grand union. I know height isn't everything, but it would be nice to see the start of a skyline...

I also think that this new design fits into the context better than the old design.

you don't have to drive piles in the ground for deep foundations. it is a common option but another option that is also commonly used and does not require driving steel piles 60ft into the ground. they are called augured piles. a crane augurs down and when they get to bedrock they pump in grout while the augur is backed out of the hole. it is something that they are doing a lot of here in nebraska. seems like a good option for that situation

I'm not sure how far down the bedrock is at this site, but I think you'd have to auger pretty far down to hit bedrock here. I imagine augering is more expensive than driving piles, especially if bedrock is deep.

My guess is that the developer of this site has this stuff figured out. They've gone so far as coming out with a really decent render, they're starting to make this more public and it is my understanding that this group isn't the type who like to start throwing out ideas and plans without first having some solid research and financial planning behind it.

So, that's part of what makes me a bit more optimistic about this proposal vs. some of the others that we see from time to time, where developers just throw out big extravagant plans and then just expect people to latch on afterwards. I think this one is different, it's a different approach in that they seem more calculated. I think it has a decent shot. Now, the problem of course is the economy and frozen lending so that may prevent this from getting built for some time, unless they get lucky and the right tenant who is actually still thriving in this economy comes along and simply wants to be in this building at this location. But again, I don't know, just speculating on all of this.

Is there any reason the Saturdays farmers market can't be moved to a location that might benefit downtown or at least benefit someone? It's very popular, but it's parked out blocks from downtown. I think most people just hit the destination & leave back to where they came from. If you close off Washington Street from Main to Cherry and use that as a vendor area, along with the area outside of Baylake Bank, that would be more then enough space I'm guessing. Especially once the children's museum/city deck opens up. People, can buy a few tomatoes & hit a few local stores. I just think it's a huge opportunity to get people downtown that's being wasted. I guess the big drawback is the logistics of shutting down streets. But if it means shutting down streets because of crowds...what a good problem.

Here's a picture of the new bus model, a 2009 New Flyer D35LF.
Five are in operation at GB Metro under the numbers 901, 902, 903, 904, and 905.
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs249.snc1/9617_123403216663_112541541663_2311830_8130187_n.jpg
I went for a ride on two of them during a Friday evening shopping trip.

Although it would be cool to have them, I don't think Green Bay Metro will ever get any articulated buses in the future. They'd probably be too expensive, and impractical in a tiny city like this. I do foresee them getting 40-foot versions of the bus pictured in the future, when more of our citizens favor mass transit, and when our city's transit commission has more 'cheese' to spend on improvements.

On the topic of downtown farmer's markets... one piece of news that's gone unmentioned here so far is that the city has voted to close down two blocks of Broadway for the farmer's markets on Wednesday evenings. It passed the traffic commission three weeks ago and the city council last week. The next hurdle to make this real is for the city to find the money for it. Truck traffic has to be rerouted onto Ashland, so there are signs to be produced. There's also overtime for cops and other expenses. It'll go before another committee to consider funding. Possibilities include the celebration fund and possibly finding a corporate sponsor.

As far as the Saturday market goes, right now there aren't too many businesses to benefit in the 'downtown' area. Feta'z and Bosse's come to mind, but there aren't too many others. How about moving it to Main St.? There's a lot of inertia though, that market has been there for eons. I remember going when I was a toddler. Wasn't there some talk of putting it on the City Deck? That might spur some retail growth in those projects.

I like the new render, by the way. But I kind of wish that there was a little more diversity in the color schemes of downtown construction... I wouldn't want everything to be the same three or four hues.

My guess is that the developer of this site has this stuff figured out. They've gone so far as coming out with a really decent render, they're starting to make this more public and it is my understanding that this group isn't the type who like to start throwing out ideas and plans without first having some solid research and financial planning behind it.

Not to pick on you (okay, I'm about to pick on you :-) ), but this cracked me up. We have seen A LOT of "really decent renders" of things that were neither well thought out nor anywhere near becoming reality. Now, I think those behind this concept are capable and this plan has as good a chance as any to happen, so I want to be clear that I'm not commenting on this project in particular.

So, now that I'm at it, my turn to comment on the render. I think it's nice. In my opinion there's a bit too much going on: a circular tower, and a square tower, and a vertical glass bit, and a large cornice, and some terra-cotta looking stuff, and some brick, and some metal looking stuff... I don't think anyone would call it restrained. I find it curious that it references many other buildings in the areas, but not the one it's replacing. I also worry how the metal-type cladding on the top three floors will come off. Personally, I'd like a more restrained design that removes the box-shaped tower so as not to compete with the circular tower on the corner, and lose the glass tower bit on the left as well. I'd also like to see the vertical lines created between the windows on the lower three floors extended up to the upper floors, adding some dimension to that part of the building.

That said, I think it's fine. I'd be happy to see it there, and I think it could help create life on that corner. I think someone asked about the retail space being added when the Cherry St. ramp retail is vacant. I think that's a valid point, but as I recall the lower floors here are intended to function differently. Instead of several retail spaces, this would be more like restaurant space, and banquet space on the second floor. The idea is to tie it in directly with the Meyer and Frank's. I may have some of the specifics wrong, but the idea is to create a different kind of space than the Ramp Retail.

Finally, I like Night Rider's thinking about the location of the Farmer's Market. I was downtown yesterday as well, and while the market was packed, the downtown wasn't. I'd love to see something, including but beyond the farmer's market, that closes several streets downtown on Saturdays during the warmer months and creates a pedestrian/bike/skate zone. Make it an event. I'm thinking the area on Washington and Adams from Main to Walnut. Especially once the mall goes away, this could encompass a wide area of retail. It could really tie in with the CityDeck and the Fox River Trail well. (thoughts, eddyout?)

Not to pick on you (okay, I'm about to pick on you :-) ), but this cracked me up. We have seen A LOT of "really decent renders" of things that were neither well thought out nor anywhere near becoming reality.


What?? I always thought that once it was rendered, it would magically appear for real!! Yep. I've personally used that kind of magic to build baseball stadiums, atriums, all sorts of things. I'm going to go render a picture of myself holding a briefcase full of money now. :lol:

Hey Guys...dont really post all that often but i do try to read frequently. A couple of quick questions and thought....Has there ever been a rendering of T. Wall's plan for the former mall site...if so, is that plan still in the works?....i'm assuming that astor place is dead..does anybody know if there is any pulse whatsoever?...i personally hope not...i didnt care for the design all that much...i dont mind modern but i thought it might look outdated 20 years from now...plus i think it neglected the main street side...an another note i do like the new plan for the daily planet site...its simple yet sophisticated...which is exactly the kind of design it needs to stay relevant...i did not care for the grand union look...another question i have---is there an option to add more floors to the baylake building?..i am not one to say that every building needs to be 30 stories tall...but what happens in the future when(notice i didnt if)downtown green bay flourishes and there is a nice mix of mulit-story buildings and then there is a one story building sitting in the middle of it...it might look out of place...if the cherry street parking lot gets developed do we have to leave an alley for the drive up window for the bank?...i know these are some random questions and they might have very well been answered already...just me being curious :) ....always enjoy reading this forum...you guys give a lot of hope for downtown green bay...its nice to see other people care as well

What?? I always thought that once it was rendered, it would magically appear for real!! Yep. I've personally used that kind of magic to build baseball stadiums, atriums, all sorts of things. I'm going to go render a picture of myself holding a briefcase full of money now. :lol:

Hahahahahahha... we should create some REALLY nice renders!

Hey Guys...dont really post all that often but i do try to read frequently. A couple of quick questions and thought....

Wow. Lots here, I'll try my best.

Q: Has there ever been a rendering of T. Wall's plan for the former mall site...if so, is that plan still in the works?

A: I don't think anything was publicly released. Someone on here saw some drawings though that they liked. I think they may have been more conceptual than anything... more to demonstrate the massing than a final design. At any rate, at best T. Wall is laying low for the time being. Haven't heard anything recently. Others may know more.

Q: i'm assuming that astor place is dead..does anybody know if there is any pulse whatsoever?...i personally hope not...i didnt care for the design all that much...i dont mind modern but i thought it might look outdated 20 years from now...plus i think it neglected the main street side

A: D. E. A. D.

Q: an another note i do like the new plan for the daily planet site...its simple yet sophisticated...which is exactly the kind of design it needs to stay relevant...i did not care for the grand union look...

A: Good!

Q: another question i have---is there an option to add more floors to the baylake building?..i am not one to say that every building needs to be 30 stories tall...but what happens in the future when(notice i didnt if)downtown green bay flourishes and there is a nice mix of mulit-story buildings and then there is a one story building sitting in the middle of it...it might look out of place...

A: Considering that it was built as a department store, I very much doubt it was built with adding floors in mind. At any rate, if someone was going to invest the money to add onto that, I'd advocate hard for them to tear that down, put Pine St. through, and rebuild on the remaining site. I'm not going to get into a complaint about the current building, but it certainly isn't so great as to add onto the current design, if that were even possible anyway. As an aside, Baylake Bank is two stories, so that's better then one! I too look forward to the day that things are going well enough downtown that someone sees it fit to redevelop sites like that.

Q: if the cherry street parking lot gets developed do we have to leave an alley for the drive up window for the bank?...

A: Yes. I'd also argue that a row of parking should be left for customers doing quick business at the bank. I have a drawing (further proof that drawing things doesn't make them real!) of that site made into a plaza with a row of angle parking on all sides. I don't have it on hand now, but it's somewhere on the back pages of the thread. Anyway, it works pretty well and actually preserves about half the parking on the site.

Q: i know these are some random questions and they might have very well been answered already...just me being curious :) ....always enjoy reading this forum...you guys give a lot of hope for downtown green bay...its nice to see other people care as well

A: Awesome! Your enthusiasm is appreciated!

I had an interesting conversation this weekend. A friend of mine went to school here, and then moved to L.A. about 12 years ago. This weekend was his first time back. On the way to dinner, I took him for a drive around town, specifically downtown. He was shocked--said it looked completely different--AND BETTER than when he was here. He's traveled around quite a bit since he left & mentioned how many dead & dying downtowns he sees. When I said that it was frustrating that things haven't progressed as quickly as we would like around here, he basically said that he was very impressed with the progress, and that we should be happy we're at least moving in the right direction, because in a lot of places...they're not.

I thought it was interesting to get that perspective. I'm sure it's easy for all of us, so close to it, to get frustrated when we here about plans that never seem to become reality, but it's probably good to take a step back & realize that we ARE moving in the right direction, and that things could be much worse..

^^ :applause:

I couldn't agree with your friend more. There's a lot of nihilism around, but it doesn't take account of the facts:

• In the last six years there has been 10s of millions of dollars in construction and investment in downtown (East and West of the Fox).

• There are more and better businesses downtown now than there were ten years ago.

• There are more people living on the river now than ever in the history of Green Bay.

• Progress would have been much quicker if it were not for the fact that we've been in a credit crunch for the past year and a half. I speak from experience when I say that banks aren't helping fill those retail vacancies. The normal formula where people with ideas meet banks with capital and progress happens has come undone for the time being. In the natural course of things (and I'm no Vetter supporter at this point, but I think this was reasonable at the time) WaterMark and Astor Place would have been constructed by now, in the original timeline they were meant to be complete by Fall of '08.

• There are some grand projects on the horizon, many of which would have been underway if the world economy hadn't tripped over its heels. Larsen Green, for example, has enormous potential to be super cool. It will bring college students downtown, new residents, creative businesses, and possibly a museum of contemporary art.

****

What I think is that the understanding of downtown needs to change a little bit. There's no need to duplicate what Broadway already has on the East Side of the river. Broadway is also downtown, after all. I'd like to see each of the downtown areas take on its own character, and East Side should be the financial/entertainment district.

Article in today's GBPG stated the project could start in 8 weeks according to Vetter. Again, I will believe it when I see it... :nuts:

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090909/GPG03/909090599

Some changes to the financing are in there as well.

The ARTgarage in what may become downtown Green Bay's art district:

www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090909/GPG04/90909001/1250/ARTgarage-offers-work-and-show-space

Green Bay is leading 39-31 in the Yahoo! Sports Fantasy poll for the "Favorite City." Today I was sure to thank my network of friends from around the world who helped in voting for us in the poll. We can use the $15,000 for the children's museum !

Green Bay is leading 39-31 in the Yahoo! Sports Fantasy poll for the "Favorite City." Today I was sure to thank my network of friends from around the world who helped in voting for us in the poll. We can use the $15,000 for the children's museum !

Here's the link. (http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/f2/mayoral-faceoff) It is a fantasy football league for some mayors. Sounds pretty fun.

It says the $15,000 would go to a local non-profit sports program. So I don't think the children's museum would count.

Here's a picture of the new bus model, a 2009 New Flyer D35LF.
Five are in operation at GB Metro under the numbers 901, 902, 903, 904, and 905.
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs249.snc1/9617_123403216663_112541541663_2311830_8130187_n.jpg
I went for a ride on two of them during a Friday evening shopping trip.

Although it would be cool to have them, I don't think Green Bay Metro will ever get any articulated buses in the future. They'd probably be too expensive, and impractical in a tiny city like this. I do foresee them getting 40-foot versions of the bus pictured in the future, when more of our citizens favor mass transit, and when our city's transit commission has more 'cheese' to spend on improvements.

We have those awful buses in Milwaukee. And they just ordered 180 more of them, (the 40 ft models). I hate them...noisy and stinky... Pretty much anything would have been better...

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-8.jpg

Big front-page article on Green Bay Metro today:

www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090910/GPG0101/909100578/1207/GPG01/Rise-in-population-could-cost-Green-Bay-bus-system-federal-funds

Photo by H. Marc Larson, Green Bay Press-Gazette

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/newkavarna.jpg

From the latest Kavarna eNewsletter:

So, When's the Move?

I think we've fielded the question, "So, when's the move?" at least three times a day over the course of the past Summer. While there's been a lot going on behind the scenes, it's been frustrating having little good news to share. The question hasn't bothered us because it only means that people are as excited as we are, but not having a good answer was getting a little painful. Well, I'm very happy to announce that the long Summer is over! We were finally able to get the financing that we need. This is definitely the last time we attempt a major expansion during a national credit crisis.

While the bulk of our financing is private, a significant chunk of it is in the form of a loan from Green Bay's City Revolving Fund. It's a Clinton-era program designed to create jobs and to stimulate the economy in targeted districts (such as Broadway). While we have a feeling of certainty that had this not worked, we would have found another way; it's hard to see exactly how we could have moved forward without this major push from City Hall (and no, writing this paragraph was not a loan requirement!) There's a cynicism about government that is warranted in many cases, but in this case it's not. We owe a debt both literally and figuratively to the city, so we'd like to thank everyone for standing by us; especially the city's Office of Economic Development. On our part, the trust that has been placed in us is one that we take seriously. We will not only create new jobs, we will work very hard with other businesses and people to sustain and grow the cultural offerings and prosperity of downtown Green Bay. We'd also like to encourage anyone considering opening or expanding a business in Green Bay to talk to the Economic Development team. Even if your project doesn't qualify, they are resourceful people who can offer some good suggestions.

So, when's the move? We still don't have an answer for that one. But I can say with certainty that construction will begin the week after next and continue until it's done. And then we'll move. Hopefully before Christmas.


Photo by Kavarna.

^^I'm amped up.
:banana2:

We have those awful buses in Milwaukee. And they just ordered 180 more of them, (the 40 ft models). I hate them...noisy and stinky... Pretty much anything would have been better...

I said this before but I have been near these new buses, rode my bike behind them...and they're MUCH less stinky & less noisy than the old ones. Maybe the old ones were just exponentially bad.

Now, I agree with you that I'd rather see something like silent no-fume electric trolleys circulating the downtown...but too few people agree with me there.

P.S. I hate West Mason Street, west of USH 41. If I never ever go over there again, that will be soon enough. I'm so glad that I almost never have to go over there.

Here's the link. (http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/f2/mayoral-faceoff) It is a fantasy football league for some mayors. Sounds pretty fun.

It says the $15,000 would go to a local non-profit sports program. So I don't think the children's museum would count.

That is what I thought, but I am just going off of what the mayor said. It is even on the city's website. $15,000 towards Children's Museum http://www.ci.green-bay.wi.us/

There is a plan for the old Schauer & Schumaker buildings being developed by Michael Schwantes of Creative Business Brokers. Plans call for a mixed-use redevelopment of this site, including commercial condo space on the first floors as well as eight luxurious loft-style living units above.

Unit Specs

• Eight residential loft units
• Unit sizes range from 1484 sq ft up to 3,500 sq ft
• Soaring ceilings up to 15 ft. high
• Hardwood floors
• Granite kitchen countertops
• Top of the line kitchen appliances and bathroom fixtures
• High speed internet and cable connections
• Owner input design options
• Remote access cell-phone entry
• Rooftop garden access free for all tenants, including a jacuzzi and terrific 3-story view of downtown Green Bay
• Covered ramp parking within 1/2 block with reserved parking spaces

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac298/phatty_013_2009/126Lofts.jpg

This is a pretty good idea and a great re use of the building. With the Grand Union take II potentially going in, ramp reatil, and this all you would need is that lot in front of PI to be developed with a building close to the street and we may see some activity come back to Walnut.

^^
LOL! Did you add the hooker leaning against the red light?

There is a plan for the old Schauer & Schumaker buildings being developed by Michael Schwantes of Creative Business Brokers. Plans call for a mixed-use redevelopment of this site, including commercial condo space on the first floors as well as eight luxurious loft-style living units above.

Unit Specs

• Eight residential loft units
• Unit sizes range from 1484 sq ft up to 3,500 sq ft
• Soaring ceilings up to 15 ft. high
• Hardwood floors
• Granite kitchen countertops
• Top of the line kitchen appliances and bathroom fixtures
• High speed internet and cable connections
• Owner input design options
• Remote access cell-phone entry
• Rooftop garden access free for all tenants, including a jacuzzi and terrific 3-story view of downtown Green Bay
• Covered ramp parking within 1/2 block with reserved parking spaces

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac298/phatty_013_2009/126Lofts.jpg

This is a pretty good idea and a great re use of the building. With the Grand Union take II potentially going in, ramp reatil, and this all you would need is that lot in front of PI to be developed with a building close to the street and we may see some activity come back to Walnut.

I was going to post something about this last week & forgot. The other item I heard that is supposedly already a "done deal" is a large Starbucks on the ground level. Apparently construction on that is set to start very soon. We'll see. I've heard that Daily Buzz is doing well--I kind of hate to see a behemoth come in & steal their business.

I hadn't heard this much detail about the condos, though--very interesting. Did you hear any pricing info?

^^
LOL! Did you add the hooker leaning against the red light?

It is Green Bay's version of the red light district.

As far as pricing, no - nothing as of yet. I guess it will depend on size and ammenities. I have seen the floor plans and they are laid out quite nicely rather than the lower end units in Riverfront Lofts which are very narrow. W/O the view of the Fox River I could see $150k to 300K or be way off...

Great posts, Green Bay 4 Life and jerkylips999. That's a too-long-empty building in a prominent location downtown. There's also an older S&S building — where the funeral home used to be — just north of the corner building, hidden behind the trees in your photo, that I'm assuming would be part of the project too. And perhaps the adjacent, small, two-story limestone building on Walnut to the west.

Some questions, though. For one, did you mean to say 126 lofts? Sounds like a lot. Secondly, could Creative Business pull this off, with WaterMark going up, etc.? How firm do you think this could be, or at this point is it essentially conceptual? And, of course, could they get the financing? . . . And Starbucks???

Great posts, Green Bay 4 Life and jerkylips999. That's a too-long-empty building in a prominent location downtown. There's also an older S&S building — where the funeral home used to be — just north of the corner building, hidden behind the trees in your photo, that I'm assuming would be part of the project too. And perhaps the adjacent, small, two-story limestone building on Walnut to the west.

Some questions, though. For one, did you mean to say 126 lofts? Sounds like a lot. Secondly, could Creative Business pull this off, with WaterMark going up, etc.? How firm do you think this could be, or at this point is it essentially conceptual? And, of course, could they get the financing? . . . And Starbucks???


I think the 126 is a reference to the address--the name of the building will be 126 lofts or something. That's how I took it, at least. I believe he said that there will be 8 units.

Starbucks...I questioned it too, but was told by a business owner in that area, & he swears that it's already in the works. I thought it was strange since they just closed so many stores around the country.

What we REALLY need is an Alterra coffee shop!!!!!!

whoops - double post..

There is a plan for the old Schauer & Schumaker buildings being developed by Michael Schwantes of Creative Business Brokers. Plans call for a mixed-use redevelopment of this site, including commercial condo space on the first floors as well as eight luxurious loft-style living units above.

Unit Specs

• Eight residential loft units
• Unit sizes range from 1484 sq ft up to 3,500 sq ft
• Soaring ceilings up to 15 ft. high
• Hardwood floors
• Granite kitchen countertops
• Top of the line kitchen appliances and bathroom fixtures
• High speed internet and cable connections
• Owner input design options
• Remote access cell-phone entry
• Rooftop garden access free for all tenants, including a jacuzzi and terrific 3-story view of downtown Green Bay
• Covered ramp parking within 1/2 block with reserved parking spaces

http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac298/phatty_013_2009/126Lofts.jpg

This is a pretty good idea and a great re use of the building. With the Grand Union take II potentially going in, ramp reatil, and this all you would need is that lot in front of PI to be developed with a building close to the street and we may see some activity come back to Walnut.

That is pretty cool. I really enjoy hearing about these types of developments. Or rather ones, that are a little smaller scale, easier obtainable and breathe life into old buildings.

I just read and listened (you can do this now on the city website) to the minutes of the September 8th RDA meeting. It sounds like there will be a special RDA meeting called later this month for two items: the first is a development agreement in relation to the new senior housing that is replacing the Hotel Northland; the second is for a developer to present a plan for the greenfield site on Broadway. Rob Strong mentioned that they have been in talks off and on for awhile regarding this. Does anyone know what this is or if it is a quality, urban plan?

Green Bay Wins Yahoo! Poll, Children's Museum OK'ed To Get Award
Published on September 11, 2009 (13 hours, 12 minutes ago)

The city of Green Bay wins an online fan poll on Yahoo! sports. People could log on and vote for their favorite city taking part in a fantasy football contest. Mayor Jim Schmitt is pleased with the win. Winning this part of the contest nets Green Bay $15,000 to be given to a local non-profit sports program. Schmitt says he'll give the money to the Children's Museum, because sports and activity will be encompassed in the museum. He indicates Yahoo! officials were fine with the museum getting the money. With 44 percent of the vote, Green Bay finished well ahead of the competition.

^^
LOL! Did you add the hooker leaning against the red light?

She's really working the pole (light pole).

I think the 126 is a reference to the address--the name of the building will be 126 lofts or something. That's how I took it, at least. I believe he said that there will be 8 units.[/B]

The address can't be 126. It has to be an odd number since it is on the north side of East Walnut and on the west side of North Adams. The beginning number of 1 for the address would fit for North Adams Street though.

What else can we do to make driving easier for drunks? What a joke!!

Proposed roundabouts near Lambeau Field raise concerns
By Stacy Forster and Patrick Marley of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Sept. 12, 2009
Madison — At the same time that the Legislature is trying to combat Wisconsin's problem with drunken driving, a lawmaker is asking transportation officials to reconsider putting two roundabouts near Lambeau Field because some fans might be too inebriated to safely navigate them.

"While we would hope no one will be driving impaired, the reality is that with thousands of people leaving a football game or other event, the odds are that some drivers may be less than alert after spending three to six hours at the stadium," Rep. Jim Soletski (D-Green Bay) wrote in a letter to state Transportation Secretary Frank Busalacchi.

The issue of drunken driving has taken on a new prominence after the Journal Sentinel's "Wasted in Wisconsin" series and other news reports about the toll of drunken driving in the state.

Soletski said he wants to create a safe environment for all visitors to the area and has other concerns about the roundabouts.

But the concern that potentially impaired drivers could have trouble traversing a roundabout after a game or event in Green Bay is a sad statement, said Lisa Maroney, spokeswoman for AWARE, a coalition of 50 health and medical, law enforcement and insurance groups pushing for a stronger response to drunken driving.

"That would just tell me that we have a ways to go in terms of just educating the public about the overall safety of driving drunk," she said.

A group of lawmakers - including some of the Legislature's strongest backers of drunken driving changes - has proposed a bill that would allow people to consume alcohol while riding on commercial quadricycles, which are powered by up to 12 passengers pedaling the vehicle.

The state Highway 41 project features 44 roundabouts in Brown and Winnebago counties, including two where Highway 41 intersects with Lombardi Ave. and Oneida St. - two of the major arteries bringing traffic to Lambeau Field.

Soletski said his concern about potential drunken drivers was based on personal observation of behavior at Packers games.

"It's not going to get better by ignoring a situation that could be worsened by someone driving impaired," Soletski said. "You hope that all Packer fans that (are drunk)have somebody else driving for them, but there's always a possibility there may be somebody (who drives)."

Packers spokesman Aaron Popkey wasn't familiar with the issue Soletski raised and said it was not part of the team's conversation with the Transportation Department about the roundabouts. Popkey said the team promotes responsible drinking and has programs to encourage safe behavior.

The Packers have raised concerns with the DOT about whether the roundabouts can handle high volumes of traffic.

"The system works well now," Jason Wied, Packers vice president of administration and general counsel, said in a statement. "We would not want to see a change that causes safety issues or undue congestion."

The DOT is studying that issue, said Chris Klein, an aide to the transportation

I think Creative Business Brokers are being "CREATIVE".

Their Address:

Creative Business Brokers
126 Pine Street, Suite 301
Green Bay, WI 54301-5187

I think they are using the street number from their offices on Pine for the "126 Lofts" name............nothing to do with address on Adams or Walnut....just my guess.....

If anything, the roundabouts should make gameday traffic control easier at those interchanges - the southbound US 41 postgame traffic gummups are from vehicles piling onto US 41 from all of those on-ramps (Lombardi Ave, WI 172, Oneida St and Ashland Ave) having to squeeze down to two lanes.

Once the US 41 Green Bay area upgrades are complete, the postgame traffic gummups will be from the three southbound mainline lanes dropping down to two at Scheuring Rd. Whenever the time comes to upgrade US 41 the rest of the way to Appleton to six lanes, there should be no more postgame traffic-related delays at all on southbound US 41.

:ohno:

Mike

I was at the Daily Buzz earlier today and took some pictures of the CityDeck. They are making pretty good progress. I can't wait for it to be completed!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3479/3913328319_4576ea6af1.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2512/3913299631_f5df02a528.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2484/3913293565_3d33df710f.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2559/3913289999_6ba9b680ce.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2653/3913409881_f1715dc24b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2546/3914198950_02e1382512.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2568/3914081742_46d8dcfa5a.jpg

wow^^ pretty sad mr Jim Soletski...So he is expecting people to get drunk/buzzed (i say expect as almost in wants) and drive away. If anything, the roundabout in my opinion would act almost as a slingshot to drunks; the drunks start turning then left, more left, more left, more left, then the inebriation becomes too much for the, the, the person(scoff) and the drunk lets go of the steering wheel and VOILA! the drunk is off the road....YAY :banana:

(disclaimer; beware it is always a possibility the drunk slingshots into someone unfortunately, just like in ANY intersection) oh snap.

great photos zeko!

Apparantly Jim Soletski would prefer for the drunk not to get into a fender bender at a round-about, but be able to proceed onto 41 where he can do some real damage going 65mph.

I was thinking on the same line as Jschmuck, only my thought was that the drunk drivers might go straight through the roundabout... so why not put a really deep pit in the middle of the roundabout so that the drunks just pile up at the bottom of the pit.

exactly puant! lol, so many possibilities; how bout some land mines, of course that would be a constant monetary expense to tax payers cause drunk driving is a constant, and the mines would constantly be replaced. i like that pit idea! rendering?

We went to Chefusion for dinner tonight--it was my parents' 48th anniversary so we took them out. First, the building is beautiful. They have a fantastic space.

The food was really good. I'm a bit of a food critic, so I'm not going tosay that it was incredible, but it was really good (the broccoli soup was the highlight of the night, & probably the best I've ever had). It was pricier than I was expecting--closer to Hinterland prices than Titletown prices, for comparison. Overall I liked it, & I would go back, but probably only for "special" occasions. The one thing that has stuck in my head is that with all the good things I've heard about Republic, I was thinking that for the money we probably could have gone there instead.

I was at the Daily Buzz earlier today and took some pictures of the CityDeck. They are making pretty good progress. I can't wait for it to be completed!




Great Pics zokompany. I was downtown today too and was wondering if the project would be done in time for next month's Living La Vida Local event. It looks like there's maybe two weeks of work left and then it's party time.

As for Creative's plans for the S&S building, I like the rooftop gardening and lounging concept. Starbucks, yeah that's real diversity in city planning. Isn't the Daily Buzz enough? If there's such long lines at DB that they go out the door and around the corner then let's just make ALL the vacant commercial space downtown into a coffee place to ensure that people massing downtown to spend $6.00 on coffee drinks have plenty of choice. :bash: I think maybe Creative could be a little more creative in going after a business that's unique and brings a little status to downtown. Even a salon/spa is better than Starbucks, the brand is getting old and losing its trendiness.

I will forever remember the name Jim Soletski as the state politician that raised the issue of roundabout safety for drunk drivers.

Apparantly Jim Soletski would prefer for the drunk not to get into a fender bender at a round-about, but be able to proceed onto 41 where he can do some real damage going 65mph.
I just could not believe that article when I read it. I'm a roundabout supporter but I can understand some of the concerns people have for it. But concern that drunk drivers won't be able to understand them? Don't you think that maybe we should concentrate on the drunk driver half of that equation rather than the roundabout half? OMG.

Bay2Bay - that's a great point that NEEDS to be communicated to Soletski. In fact, maybe we can promote roundabouts by saying they'll get the drunks to crash in low-speed areas rather than high-speed areas. Maybe a "drunk collector" like Puant suggests would be a good way to help Darwin along.

Zekompany - great pictures. Thanks for the update for us out-of-towners.

Great Pics zokompany. I was downtown today too and was wondering if the project would be done in time for next month's Living La Vida Local event. It looks like there's maybe two weeks of work left and then it's party time.

As for Creative's plans for the S&S building, I like the rooftop gardening and lounging concept. Starbucks, yeah that's real diversity in city planning. Isn't the Daily Buzz enough? If there's such long lines at DB that they go out the door and around the corner then let's just make ALL the vacant commercial space downtown into a coffee place to ensure that people massing downtown to spend $6.00 on coffee drinks have plenty of choice. :bash: I think maybe Creative could be a little more creative in going after a business that's unique and brings a little status to downtown. Even a salon/spa is better than Starbucks, the brand is getting old and losing its trendiness.

I will forever remember the name Jim Soletski as the state politician that raised the issue of roundabout safety for drunk drivers.

For anyone that has seen the CityDeck up close and personal, does it look like quality so far? I thought that the brickwork being laid down was supposed to be different colors and what the picture shows is that it is one solid color. Does that look nice in person? I kind of liked the different colors better, but maybe this will be fine (it is tough to judge by the pics). I sure hope they plant more trees by the walkway/green area by Riverfront lofts. So what's everyone think? Is this going to be a stellar project?

http://vetterdenk.com/work.php

For anyone that has seen the CityDeck up close and personal, does it look like quality so far? I thought that the brickwork being laid down was supposed to be different colors and what the picture shows is that it is one solid color. Does that look nice in person? I kind of liked the different colors better, but maybe this will be fine (it is tough to judge by the pics). I sure hope they plant more trees by the walkway/green area by Riverfront lofts. So what's everyone think? Is this going to be a stellar project?

http://vetterdenk.com/work.php

I wouldn't say stellar, but it will be cool and a whole lot better than it was. The seating along the edge close to the river looks cool except that when you're sitting on it appears that you're facing away from the river.

As for Creative's plans for the S&S building, I like the rooftop gardening and lounging concept. Starbucks, yeah that's real diversity in city planning. Isn't the Daily Buzz enough? If there's such long lines at DB that they go out the door and around the corner then let's just make ALL the vacant commercial space downtown into a coffee place to ensure that people massing downtown to spend $6.00 on coffee drinks have plenty of choice. :bash: I think maybe Creative could be a little more creative in going after a business that's unique and brings a little status to downtown. Even a salon/spa is better than Starbucks, the brand is getting old and losing its trendiness.


I am not all that sure that the city is going after Starbucks... that building has been vacant for a long time, so anything that activates the area would be an improvement, and I really have a hard time believing that Starbucks would even consider that area. Starbucks is more then just coffee... it comes with huge name recognition.

City deck looks great so far, it wont be truly "finished" for a few years but the upland portion should be open later this month. Most of the build outs over the water will come at a later date. It will be really nice to have that area open again.

...and I really have a hard time believing that Starbucks would even consider that area. Starbucks is more then just coffee... it comes with huge name recognition.

Somebody mentioned a few years back a juice place like Smoothie King (http://www.smoothieking.com/) or Orange Julius (http://www.orangejulius.com/). It's a business with the same service but a product that's different enough from what Daily Buzz sells. It appeals to all ages. I loved the Orange Julius when Port Plaza opened. It was a treat for me to get an OJ down there when I was an 11-15 year old. It fits in with healthy lifestyle and behavior, currently popular in our culture.

Somebody mentioned a few years back a juice place like Smoothie King (http://www.smoothieking.com/) or Orange Julius (http://www.orangejulius.com/). It's a business with the same service but a product that's different enough from what Daily Buzz sells. It appeals to all ages. I loved the Orange Julius when Port Plaza opened. It was a treat for me to get an OJ down there when I was an 11-15 year old. It fits in with healthy lifestyle and behavior, currently popular in our culture.


www.urbanfrogdeli.com SUPPORT DOWNTOWN LOCAL BUSINESSES

Anyone ever wondered if the city is going to provide FACILITIES.....with the new City Deck?

Anyone ever wondered if the city is going to provide FACILITIES.....with the new City Deck?

We're all just going to knock on your door...you have a open door policy right? :)

Any updates for the condo purchase?

A few thoughts...

The drunks/roundabouts issue is about the lamest excuse to oppose roundabouts I've heard yet. In my opinion, if I'm going to be hit by a drunk at an intersection, I WANT it to be a roundabout because their geometry leads to far less serious crashes.

Regarding Starbucks. I haven't heard anything about their interest one way or the other. But in the event that they were interested now or in the future, there isn't much the city could do. I mean, it is a free market. If they want to be part of the downtown, good for them. And Creative owns that site, and they can sell/lease space to whomever they want. If I'm them and owning a long vacant building, I'm not going to turn a potential tenant away in order to protect a nearby business in a building I don't own. And City planning is important, but I don't think I'd ever advocate for their suppression of competition. How can the city try to tell an owner to hold their space vacant because another owner also has a coffee shop? Furthermore, competition is not necessarily bad for the business being competed against. As a consumer I'd try to support the local shop, but the big chain has every right to exist, and may even make the local shop better for it.

Finally, I'd describe the CityDeck as quality. I wouldn't say stellar either (yet), but I think it's real quality. As for the benches facing away from the river, I'm not positive but I think a lot of the places where benches are will be where the piers eventually are built out. So they help transition between the upland and pier areas, but I think they will integrate in well and allow people to sit facing either way. I think they are the standout feature aesthetically.

We're all just going to knock on your door...you have a open door policy right? :)

Any updates for the condo purchase?

1)Yes.........as a matter of fact I usually do have an open door policy......sometimes that's a big problem tho'.........that's why I'm trying to find a one bedroom (maybe one room) condo I like..........just do re-define my boundries!

2)Just waiting around....and waiting........ and.....waiting....doesn't look very promising I must say.............. ............but.....................I'm gonna get interested in the "126 Lofts" pretty soon after Creative Bus. starts doing something there.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/hdr_logo.jpg

Nice pictures of CityDeck, zekompany.

Update below on the Ashwaubenon Boardwalk project along the Fox River just north of the 172 bridge. I think they had plans for another five-story office building there if the market allowed, but it sounds like that may not happen, at least for now. They did build one five-story office building, the aloft hotel, a new marina, fratellos restaurant, some condos, streets, etc.

www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009909130662

www.ashwaubenonboardwalk.com/

The Packers scored a big win this weekend -- and so did the mayor and city of Green Bay.

Yahoo! Sports confirmed Monday that Mayor Jim Schmitt won the popularity vote in the mayoral fantasy football challenge.

As part of the mayoral face-off, people were asked to vote for their favorite NFL city. Green Bay won easily over second-place Tampa Bay, meaning the mayor will receive $15,000 for his chosen charity.

Mayor Schmitt says the money will go towards the planned downtown Children's Museum.

Yahoo! Sports rules say the money has to go to a sports-related non-profit, but the mayor's office got approval for the children's museum before the game.

Another $15,000 will go to the mayor whose fantasy football league wins at the end of the season.



http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=11128683

For anyone that has seen the CityDeck up close and personal, does it look like quality so far? I thought that the brickwork being laid down was supposed to be different colors and what the picture shows is that it is one solid color. Does that look nice in person? I kind of liked the different colors better, but maybe this will be fine (it is tough to judge by the pics). I sure hope they plant more trees by the walkway/green area by Riverfront lofts. So what's everyone think? Is this going to be a stellar project?

http://vetterdenk.com/work.php

I was going to post something on the citydeck soon actually. I walk past it nearly every day, so it has been kinda cool watching them progress from south to north.

As for the quality, it is hard to get an up close view really, but the main decking material is a synthetic board like Trex decking used on many residential decks. It is clean and splinter free, but also doesn't give you that concrete jungle feel that an asphalt or concrete would. Considering the trail to the north and south of the citydeck area is in a mixed red brick, this will be very aesthetically pleasing imho.

The best part for me is when they finally finish it, I won't have to dodge traffic getting to Washington St from the trail north of citydeck. There isn't a crosswalk there :(.

Cool news on the S&S building. The upper patio/garden area is a cool idea, it would have some decent views of the surrounding buildings. Downtown is actually pretty dense in that area.

So that's three major projects slated for fall/winter/spring?

CityDeck: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090915/GPG0101/909150533/1978

41 roundabouts: www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090915/GPG0101/909150529/1978

As for the quality, it is hard to get an up close view really, but the main decking material is a synthetic board like Trex decking used on many residential decks. It is clean and splinter free, but also doesn't give you that concrete jungle feel that an asphalt or concrete would.

Is that true? The plan was that the decking was to be of a very dense wood called ipe (pronounced E-Pay). That's what it looked to me like what they've been installing, but I haven't touched the stuff myself.

^^
Regarding the deck material, coincidentally, there was a Press Gazette article in todays paper...

"The deck is made of ipe (pronounced EE-pay), a South American hardwood that construction superintendent Gary Huc says is one of the hardest, densest woods he's worked with. His crew had to experiment with several different saw blades to find one that could cut the decking without immediately going dull.
The wood is reddish-brown, almost like mahogany, but will dull to a silvery-gray finish after long exposure to sunlight, Huc said.
The wood also is being used on the benches and tops of the guardrails, he said."

Well, there we go. Ipe is supposed to be incredible stuff, as evidenced by what it does to saw blades. If anyone wants to see the stuff, there are a few benches around downtown that have ipe seats. I know there are two such benches just as you exit the Cherry St Ramp on the corner of Walnut and Washington. I think the rest are by the KI Center.

Is that true? The plan was that the decking was to be of a very dense wood called ipe (pronounced E-Pay). That's what it looked to me like what they've been installing, but I haven't touched the stuff myself.
Man if all you guys were at Titletown for the last meeting Jeff brought a piece of wood in, boy is it an impressive piece of wood...

Man if all you guys were at Titletown for the last meeting Jeff brought a piece of wood in, boy is it an impressive piece of wood...

Yep, the piece Jeff Mirkes passed around for us was untreated and unstained and it was impressive as GBS said. I am a bit of a woodworker myself and worked with a lot of wood, but nothing like this stuff. It really is amazing stuff, but I would hate to have to cut a lot of it. I'm very glad they're building the city deck out of it though; it should last forever and it looks great even without stain or anything (should look great and last for a very long time). Unlike some of the other boardwalks I've seen (like Sheboygan's) which started to look kinda rough after only 5-10 years, Green Bay's should last for a long time. It's not cheap, and neither was the incredible amount of foundation work that had to be done, but it's being done right. I still don't have a really good sense of how it's going to turn out aesthetically and functionally, but I do feel confident that it will be solid.

I've heard that Daily Buzz is doing well--I kind of hate to see a behemoth come in & steal their business.

I work at APAC and several people who used to go to the Daily Buzz 2-3 times a week have been VERY disappointed with the new owners. I guess they changed over most of the staff and raised prices and switched coffee. Also on a funny side note... they couldn't figure out how to work the debit card machine so they GAVE one person their coffee. Ummm ever hear of keeping the staff when you take over until you know how everything works??

Is that true? The plan was that the decking was to be of a very dense wood called ipe (pronounced E-Pay). That's what it looked to me like what they've been installing, but I haven't touched the stuff myself.

I was mistaken, the stuff looks just like a composite decking material.

I work at APAC and several people who used to go to the Daily Buzz 2-3 times a week have been VERY disappointed with the new owners. I guess they changed over most of the staff and raised prices and switched coffee. Also on a funny side note... they couldn't figure out how to work the debit card machine so they GAVE one person their coffee. Ummm ever hear of keeping the staff when you take over until you know how everything works??

Hmmmm. I actually like the new staff more, the use of the outdoor tables and the coffee that I get is actually LESS expensive now. I will be going there more frequently now than I did in the past. :cheers:

Is that true? The plan was that the decking was to be of a very dense wood called ipe (pronounced E-Pay). That's what it looked to me like what they've been installing, but I haven't touched the stuff myself.

It's ipe I've held it in my hand.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/blogHeader_wasted.jpg

Rep. Jim Soletski and the Lombardi Ave. & Oneida St. roundabouts story:

www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/59094277.html

www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/59411837.html

www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/59390657.html

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel illustration above.

Hmmmm. I actually like the new staff more, the use of the outdoor tables and the coffee that I get is actually LESS expensive now. I will be going there more frequently now than I did in the past. :cheers:
I was wondering about the outdoor seating and whether it was getting used much or not. Yesterday I drove past at three different times of the day and there were people using it two out of the three times. I was unsure because being next to a busy street might be a turn-off to some, but to others it may be the reason to go there, to watch traffic pass by.

It's good to hear that something is costing less. NPR reported yesterday that inflation is starting to kick in. There's both good and bad to that because it means people are starting to spend money again and the economy is turning around.

City Council endorses a Green Bay RTA but with conditions.

www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090916/GPG0101/90916030/1978

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/pedalpub.jpghttp://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/Fietscafe.jpg

Not sure if something on this was posted before. If so, my apologies. As some of you may know, a state legislator from Forest Junction — located just south of De Pere on Highway 57/32 — is proposing that commercial beer/liquor quadricycles be legal in Wisconsin.

It's a bicycle with four wheels with room for up to 12-17 pedaling passengers, is driven by a nondrinking "professional driver," is also known as a Pedal Pub, and is said to be popular in the Netherlands. Alcohol is not provided, it's BYO. Top speed: 5 mph. The first in the U.S. appeared two years ago in Minnesota. Above are images of quadricycles I pulled off the Internet. I think one of those vehicles belongs to Puant.

Someone wants to bring the Pedal Pubs next year to the Lambeau Field area and possibly downtown, alcohol or not.

www.fox11online.com/dpp/mobile/local_wluk_pedal_pubs_could_come_to_green_bay_200909080930_rev1

www.pedalpub.com

An overview of the proposed legislation is at: www.mail-archive.com/bikies@lists.danenet.org/msg01067.html

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/pedalpub.jpghttp://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/Fietscafe.jpg

Not sure if something on this was posted before. If so, my apologies. As some of you may know, a state legislator from Forest Junction — located just south of De Pere on Highway 57/32 — is proposing that commercial beer/liquor quadricycles be legal in Wisconsin.

It's a bicycle with four wheels with room for up to 12-17 pedaling passengers, is driven by a nondrinking "professional driver," is also known as a Pedal Pub, and is said to be popular in the Netherlands. Alcohol is not provided, it's BYO. Top speed: 5 mph. The first in the U.S. appeared two years ago in Minnesota. Above are images of quadricycles I pulled off the Internet. I think one of those vehicles belongs to Puant.

Someone wants to bring the Pedal Pubs next year to the Lambeau Field area and possibly downtown, alcohol or not.

www.fox11online.com/dpp/mobile/local_wluk_pedal_pubs_could_come_to_green_bay_200909080930_rev1

www.pedalpub.com

An overview of the proposed legislation is at: www.mail-archive.com/bikies@lists.danenet.org/msg01067.html

That thing is so stupid, so ridiculous, so.......AWESOME!!

I was mistaken, the stuff looks just like a composite decking material.

Until your comment, it never occurred to be that it looks like composite decking, but it does in how even it is.

I was wondering about the outdoor seating and whether it was getting used much or not. Yesterday I drove past at three different times of the day and there were people using it two out of the three times. I was unsure because being next to a busy street might be a turn-off to some, but to others it may be the reason to go there, to watch traffic pass by.

The outdoor seating is a nice touch. I've seen people using it a few times. Good for street life.

Regarding the beer-cycles, that's pretty funny. I can see those coming from Holland with their strong cycling culture.

Anyone going?

I've been meaning to go sometime this summer.......may as well be tonight.....just want to try and give-up a little enthusiasm.....

........I hope........I hope....... I can muster up some that is!

Bullfrogs owner wants to build new stadium off Mason Street on Fox River

Green Bay Bullfrogs owner Jeff Royle is looking into building a baseball stadium on the west bank of the Fox River.
Royle submitted a request for a planning option on the city-owned land, Mayor Jim Schmitt said Friday. The city’s Redevelopment Authority will consider the request when it meets Tuesday.

rest here;
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090918/GPG0101/90918100/1978

Bullfrogs owner wants to build new stadium off Mason Street on Fox River

Green Bay Bullfrogs owner Jeff Royle is looking into building a baseball stadium on the west bank of the Fox River.
Royle submitted a request for a planning option on the city-owned land, Mayor Jim Schmitt said Friday. The city’s Redevelopment Authority will consider the request when it meets Tuesday.

rest here;
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090918/GPG0101/90918100/1978

Well it's good to hear some news about this issue. I wish him well in getting the planning option and then his search for funding. If the economy starts to turn around now the money should be flowing better in a year, then maybe he can present his proposal to the city. If approved, that gives him a year to build the stadium before the 2013 season.

Well it's good to hear some news about this issue. I wish him well in getting the planning option and then his search for funding. If the economy starts to turn around now the money should be flowing better in a year, then maybe he can present his proposal to the city. If approved, that gives him a year to build the stadium before the 2013 season.

More:

http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=11158810

Well it's good to hear some news about this issue. I wish him well in getting the planning option and then his search for funding. If the economy starts to turn around now the money should be flowing better in a year, then maybe he can present his proposal to the city. If approved, that gives him a year to build the stadium before the 2013 season.

Just keep Schmitt and Vetters away from the project or all we will get is a square building that is simply ugly or a hole in the ground.