If you talk to a local environmental group like the Clean Water Action Council (haven't heard from them in awhile), I believe its members would say Renard Isle is an environmental disaster eventually waiting to happen. Is the man-made island leaking PCBs back into the bay and is there any ongoing testing for that? Can the underwater support system withstand battering by a large storm or high water? Will the capping materials do the trick? The Corps of Engineers, no doubt, has done some terrific work with waterway projects around the country, but it has also built some colossal failures. We love our port, but the navigational channel, we know, has to be regularly dredged to maintain the depth needed for shipping. So we get sludge contaminated with PCBs discharged into the Fox in the 1950s, '60s and '70s.

P.S. It's far too soon to say for sure and not all of the information is in, but I'm tempted to say once Renard Isle is properly capped, it should be planted with native or historic vegetation and allowed to grow. I don't know, then, whether people should be allowed on the island or not. The causeway is meant to provide access.

Thanks for the info, guys. I wonder if something like Lakeshore State Park with native plantings and paths could be done.

Unrelated, a shot taken on the way home tonight. The netbook I'm using doesn't deal with colors the best, so hopefully this looks nice:

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/ftHowardSunset.jpg

I hear Schreiber Foods is looking for a entire new campus, possibly combining their office/production facility. From what I hear they are developing plans for a city option and one with a country setting. Sounds like they are loyal to Green Bay and want to stay, but are considering other possibilities. It sure would be nice to see a huge employee base like they have relocate to downtown Green Bay. The gap they leave if they completely pull out of Green Bay would be huge. Anyone else hear anything regarding Schreiber Foods?

On a side note, I guess they make most of the cheese for Mcdonalds. Good for them.

Schrieber has 3-4 buildings in the DT area... near the production plant on Main I believe is their R&D, Quality control and some office space for production. (Kind of a nondescript building near the large parking lot off main nearest to the Family Video strip mall). They have their main offices as noted before in the former First Wisconsin (then Firstar, then US Bank building now the Schreiber building) and then the building next to Camera Corner that I believe is their training facility and telecommunications center (teleconferencing etc)... I think they might have another building as well, but not sure.

{{Kind of like Humana has several buildings off their main campus (including most of the old IBM building (aka Feld building) and a chunk of the Regency office building downtown. Also Humana Dental in DT West DePere.}}

On a side note... if I heard the story correctly... Schreiber food techs were looking at the cheese waste products and other uses so they did not have to pay to have them removed. One of them figured that the "greasy oily" film that appears on cheese, esp Cheddar and Colby have a buttery taste... and they now sell it to the microwave popcorn people as "artificial butter flavoring." So part of the growth of the microwave popcorn world can be traced to a company getting rid of a byproduct. A positive for both industries.

I could see Schrieber wanting to consolidate what they could (I doubt Quality Control would want to be too far from the plant) into one larger building, instead of 3-4 buildings. That could free up land near their current processing plant for expansion on that site. I could see them build a 10 story building on the old mall site as a perfect fit. Already have plenty of ramp space (if that is sound construction yet) and could be a good start to redeveloping that area.

Only drawback would be several empty buildings on Main street. I would guess if Jeff Mirkes is correct with his 90% office occupancy for the DTGB district, that empty space in the bank building would be gobbled up fast by companies who want to move in quickly, not so sure about the 2 buildings on Main Street though.

Unrelated, a shot taken on the way home tonight. The netbook I'm using doesn't deal with colors the best, so hopefully this looks nice:



Very nice photo. Makes me want to go out & snap some pics!

The old Circuit City building in Aswaubenon has some activity going on. There was a crew out there today removing the old red circle off of the front, couldn't see if there was any work going on inside. Anybody hear anything about this?

The old Circuit City building in Aswaubenon has some activity going on. There was a crew out there today removing the old red circle off of the front, couldn't see if there was any work going on inside. Anybody hear anything about this?


It may just be getting the Circuit City signage down. Usually when businesses close, they get those signs down right away. I'm surprised they hadn't done it yet, to be honest. I remember when Cub on West Mason closed, they had the Cub Foods signs down within a week.

Hopefully something is going in there, but who knows.

Along the same lines, the old Schneider Logistics building on Hansen has some similar activity. That's the building that's in the strip mall with Dunham's (it used to be a grocery store). I drive by there every day on the way to work & have noticed them hauling out huge amounts of carpetting & stuff.

Along the same lines, the old Schneider Logistics building on Hansen has some similar activity. That's the building that's in the strip mall with Dunham's (it used to be a grocery store). I drive by there every day on the way to work & have noticed them hauling out huge amounts of carpeting & stuff.

That is where the new Gold's Gym is going... if you go to their website they list the new address as that building. Good move for them, near the old location and much larger. Also maybe a pool?? Or was there a pool at the old location? Was a bit confused by the website.

There must be some money to be made in health clubs... they seem to be everywhere or expanding. Fitness 19 is going into the old dollar tree in the Green Bay Plaza.

The SC Grand is being converted into a church.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20103220489


anyone else see the story on fox 11 last night that Chris Wery is trying to get Guy booted from the city council?

Didn't see the report. Wery is supporting Zima's opponent in the City Council elections April 6.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100322/GPG0101/3220477/1207/gpg0101


Press Gazette - March 18, 2010

Survey deals with statewide rail plan

The Wisconsin Department of Transportation has developed a brief online questionnaire for the public on the future of rail in Wisconsin.

To take the survey, go to http://doa.wi.gov/DOTSurveys/TakeSur...rveyID=860K984.

For information on the rail plan, write to: Wisconsin Rail Plan 2030, WisDOT Bureau of Planning & Economic Development, P.O. Box 7913, Madison, WI 53707; call (608) 266-8108; e-mail RailPlan2030 @dot.wi.gov; or visit the Web site at www.wisconsinrailplan.gov

Thanks for posting the survey. I took it.


Nothing public I've seen yet. But a group has been working for quite some time now on opening a whole-foods co-op and organic grocery store of some size downtown. (It's not the unsuccessful Urban Frog effort.) It could end up being called something like City Harvest. They have some high-powered people behind the effort. Maybe more info later in the year.


Here's more background on the rejection of the proposed bike/pedestrian trail in the John Muir Park neighborhood.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100322/GPG04/3220484/-1/archive

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-38-10.jpg


A shot taken on the way home tonight. The netbook I'm using doesn't deal with colors the best, so hopefully this looks nice:

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/ftHowardSunset.jpg

That view from the Nitschke bridge area might be the most well-known industrial skyline view of Green Bay. Iconic, as they say. Terrific shot.

It may just be getting the Circuit City signage down. Usually when businesses close, they get those signs down right away. I'm surprised they hadn't done it yet, to be honest. I remember when Cub on West Mason closed, they had the Cub Foods signs down within a week.

Hopefully something is going in there, but who knows.
CC's old Appleton store (just west of US 41/College Ave) also languishes in the same way. NOTHING has been done with it ever since they cleared out over a year ago.

Mike

The Downtown Co-op initiative has it's act together, you can read more here: http://downtownfoodproject.wordpress.com/.

In Alderman Jerry Wiezbiskie's editorial he mentions plans for a new downtown hotel in the works. Has anyone heard about this or know anything? I know how many proposals come through that turn out to be nothing - but if Alderman are involved - usually that is a positive sign in lieu of just meeting with staff.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100322/GPG0706/3220480

Our downtown is improving and projects are moving ahead. The Watermark project is proceeding. More than 100 events are planned for this summer including tall ships and CityDeck/Meyer Theatre events. There is also planning for a new hotel, expanded convention center, federal courthouse and Green Bay Bullfrog stadium. Olde Main Street is growing with the ArtGarage and the East River Trail extension, and On Broadway recently received the National Greater Main Street Award. All these downtown additions will contribute to a larger, stable tax base without requiring additional services.

Video to get G O O G L E to come to Green Bay....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C484TF2ufcM&feature=player_embedded

In Alderman Jerry Wiezbiskie's editorial he mentions plans for a new downtown hotel in the works. Has anyone heard about this or know anything? I know how many proposals come through that turn out to be nothing - but if Alderman are involved - usually that is a positive sign in lieu of just meeting with staff.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100322/GPG0706/3220480

Our downtown is improving and projects are moving ahead. The Watermark project is proceeding. More than 100 events are planned for this summer including tall ships and CityDeck/Meyer Theatre events. There is also planning for a new hotel, expanded convention center, federal courthouse and Green Bay Bullfrog stadium. Olde Main Street is growing with the ArtGarage and the East River Trail extension, and On Broadway recently received the National Greater Main Street Award. All these downtown additions will contribute to a larger, stable tax base without requiring additional services.


Saw that and was wondering too. The only discussion on this board recently about a downtown hotel was in January when someone said he'd heard the Holiday Inn City Centre was for sale and DoubleTree Hotels was possibly an interested buyer. There's supposed to be a report to the Redevelopment Authority in a month or two on possible expansion of the KI Center — not sure if that's related. Wiezbiskie serves on the Plan Commission.

Saw that and was wondering too. The only discussion on this board recently about a downtown hotel was in January when someone said he'd heard the Holiday Inn City Centre was for sale and DoubleTree Hotels was possibly an interested buyer. There's supposed to be a report to the Redevelopment Authority in a month or two on possible expansion of the KI Center — not sure if that's related. Wiezbiskie serves on the Plan Commission.

I was also wondering about that but could he be referring to the Northland Hotel being refurbished?

As far as Zima goes, I understand why Wery is making news with his support for Mike Iwinkski but I hope that it doesn't hurt his cause. Mr. Iwinski also serves on the Historic Preservation Commitee and while I don't know him, listening to the audio of these meetings he seems calm, collected and level headed. God, I hope Zima doesn't get re-elected. It really is time for a change. I was amazed at some of the PG's comments about him. Some were spot on while some were saying that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. One person called him the 'smartest person that I ever met' and a genius. They acknowledged his outbursts and said he was simply a tempermental genius. Wow, that is really bad. How is the feeling up in Green Bay? Are people getting tired of him and is Iwinski well known and thought of?

I was also wondering about that but could he be referring to the Northland Hotel being refurbished?

That makes sense. Forgot about that one.

As far as Zima goes, I understand why Wery is making news with his support for Mike Iwinkski but I hope that it doesn't hurt his cause. Mr. Iwinski also serves on the Historic Preservation Commitee and while I don't know him, listening to the audio of these meetings he seems calm, collected and level headed. God, I hope Zima doesn't get re-elected. It really is time for a change. I was amazed at some of the PG's comments about him. Some were spot on while some were saying that he is the greatest thing since sliced bread. One person called him the 'smartest person that I ever met' and a genius. They acknowledged his outbursts and said he was simply a tempermental genius. Wow, that is really bad. How is the feeling up in Green Bay? Are people getting tired of him and is Iwinski well known and thought of?

I'm no expert here, but my guess is most people in Green Bay outside of the district he lives and is campaigning in don't know Mike Iwinski. He's young and fairly new to the scene, I think. This is his second time running against Zima. Iwinski may be best known to some for writing full-page articles in the Press-Gazette (and a recent article in Voyageur magazine) on the history of Green Bay, including one recently on the Hotel Northland. As you noted, he's chair of the GB Historic Preservation Commission. But the city's historic preservation ordinance is only advisory and, I've been told, one of the weakest in the state (especially when compared, for example, to De Pere). The commission, though, is an active group, meets regularly, gives historic preservation awards and has a nice presence on the city's website. Unless there's some fabulous campaign effort working for Iwinski or barring something else unforeseen, Zima defeats Iwinski April 6.

http://www.ci.green-bay.wi.us/HistoricPreservation/index.html

For the second time, the U.S. Supreme Court has rejected an effort to close down two Chicago-area locks to help prevent Asian carp from getting into Lake Michigan and the Great Lakes. They say these fish are voracious eaters, eat food that other species of fish need to survive, can grow to something like 100 lb. (as I recall) and can jump several feet out of the water, especially when disturbed (like by a boat). I hope the photo below I pulled off the web — taken in Illinois, I believe — is an extreme example.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100323/GPG0101/3230545/1978

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/edef234821illinois-river-silver-car.jpg

Hey guys, thanks for keeping this thread interesting.

As for the flying carp.....I know GBMphillips has been looking forward to seeing dead carp from the CityDeck, I'm not sure what he's going to do if he sees these things flying out of the water at him? Well GBM, at least they won't jump up into your cooler because carry-ins aren't allowed. Look at the bright side right?

How's the art show going, Danillo? I'm hoping to find a little time on Saturday to stop down and check it out.

Very interesting news lately. I hope there is more substance to Wiezbiskie's article than simply repeating some of the initiatives that have been in the works for the past couple years.

I know you are not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition, but where are the bathrooms for the City Deck at?...........How can they have a REAL comfy inviting place for the people to visit and spend money at all the local shops if a person is wondering wher to "go".....not to mention parents all worried about were the little ones are gonna "go"? Are port-a-potty's going to be littering the landscape on big city organized busy days only? In the old days I would not have worried so much, just added to the river level, but hey, maybe I'm finally growing up a little (not much)!


I see the prices are coming down on the Riverfront Lofts and the Riverside Place Condo's.....but they are still not suitable (in my opinion) and are inconvenient for parking.

I finally gave up (temporarily) on the WaterMark and moved into the Rivers Edge Apartments...nice place.... even for aparatment living.

Bring on the City Deck Activities....I'm ready to go!

I know you are not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition, but where are the bathrooms for the City Deck at?

I guess we have to hoof it over the river to your place. If you're not home, I guess we're forced to walk up to one of the bars or businesses & use theirs. I doubt any of the property owners by the river want their lower level permanently blocked by a bunch of bathrooms. It's a catch 22. Then you have issues with people loitering in them...etc. I'm not against them. It's just a logistical & costly issue. Maybe they could build it under walnut or main street, a underground facility.

Hey guys, thanks for keeping this thread interesting.

As for the flying carp.....I know GBMphillips has been looking forward to seeing dead carp from the CityDeck, I'm not sure what he's going to do if he sees these things flying out of the water at him? Well GBM, at least they won't jump up into your cooler because carry-ins aren't allowed. Look at the bright side right?
Wonder if I can do a little target practice on those bad boys sitting in my lawnchair down there. As for the cooler no problem if they ever offer anything on the deck that interest me(don't hold your breath on that) I will just plant myself outside of the main area, open a cold one and enjoy the sounds that float out freely from the area that all of the fools paid for. Always a way to beatthe system my freind just need to have a little get up and go.

Video to get G O O G L E to come to Green Bay....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C484TF2ufcM&feature=player_embedded

Huh.

As far as Zima goes, I understand why Wery is making news with his support for Mike Iwinkski but I hope that it doesn't hurt his cause...

One person called him the 'smartest person that I ever met' and a genius. They acknowledged his outbursts and said he was simply a tempermental genius. Wow, that is really bad.

I don't think Wery came off very well in this. He can obviously support any candidate he wants, and he's entitled to his opinion of Zima, but he didn't exactly raise the level of discourse in this.

I'm clearly not a Zima fan, but the guy is really smart. If you sit though the council meetings, he's kind of a bully, but he's thought out what he's saying. I'm not sure about genius, but he's a really smart guy who I happen to think is on the wrong side of certain issues.

How's the art show going, Danillo? I'm hoping to find a little time on Saturday to stop down and check it out.

Things are going well. Kind of slowed down over the second half of the month, but it's been a good experience. 3 days to go!

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/grnbaySkyline.jpg

Poll. Green Bay does not have a great downtown skyline, but its downtown does have a skyline. Day or night, from near or far, what's your favorite from-land skyline view of downtown Green Bay? Must be contemporary and include only existing buildings, not any renders of future plans. You may vote for none or as many choices below as you want. Options below in random order. If nobody votes, I win! If I was really enterprising, I'd have a photo of each option so there'd be no question of what view is being talked about. Not to bias the poll, but above is just one skyline view I pulled off the web. Photo by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Post your own photos if you'd like! No particular hurry on this.

A. From Highway 54-57 at Bay Settlement Road looking west, especially on a sunny day in the morning when the sun is in the east.

B. Main Street at or near Monroe Ave. looking west.

C. From the curve in the Monroe Ave. Bridge over the East River looking downtown.

D. From the Ray Nitschke Bridge area looking west.

E. From the Ray Nitschke Bridge or Leicht Memorial Park or Neville Public Museum area looking east.

F. From Scray's Hill looking north.

G. From the Donald Tilleman Bridge looking northeast.

H. From the top of the Leo Frigo Bridge looking south.

I. From the Walnut Street Bridge or its west approach looking east.

J. From E. Walnut Street traveling east just as you get off the Walnut Street Bridge looking down Walnut.

K. From E. Walnut Street at or near Monroe Ave. looking west.

L. Some other view(s).

You've definitely been taking note of some of the best perspectives, as I have.

I'd have to say each view has its unique qualities. The manufacturing from the I-43 bridge is pretty impressive, if you like manufacturing stuff. From way out on the Bay Settlement Rd bridge, you're right, when the sun is just right from that distance, the city skyline actually looks more impressive than it really is. Same goes for some of the views from Main St. Other views I like are from inside some of the Washington St buildings.

All that said, If I had to choose I'd probably say from the Tillman Bridge looking northeast (G). That'll be the view from the stands at the new baseball stadium.

Poll. Green Bay does not have a great downtown skyline, but its downtown does have a skyline.

L. Some other view(s).

very untraditional "skyline" my favorite view is from the western facing windows in either Bellin or St V's Hospital about the 5th or 6th floor... above the tree line.. yet taller buildings stand out downtown and on the near westside ... church steeples especially and the few downtown taller buildings... also not much of the pollution stacks to be seen from that angle...

(and of course Lambeau can be easily seen - though better than the old steel corrugated fenced bowl...still not a truly inspiring building unless you are a fan)

I like the view from the west side of the Fox River north of Titletown Brwery coming down Broadway. Also, on Mason Street heading west (next to Rogan's Shoes) you can really see the Hospital complex which is very visible on the skyline.

Green Bay applies to be one of the Google test cities for ultra-high-speed broadband.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100326/GPG0101/100326053/1978

Mike Iwinski's guest commentary in the Press-Gazette in advance of the April 6 City Council elections. Guy Zima declined the paper's offer to submit his own commentary.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100326/GPG0706/3260583/1269/GPG06/Mike-Iwinski-column--video--Common-sense-approach-needed-for-downtown

I'd have to say each view has its unique qualities. The manufacturing from the I-43 bridge is pretty impressive, if you like manufacturing stuff. From way out on the Bay Settlement Rd bridge, you're right, when the sun is just right from that distance, the city skyline actually looks more impressive than it really is. Same goes for some of the views from Main St. Other views I like are from inside some of the Washington St buildings.

All that said, if I had to choose I'd probably say from the Tillman Bridge looking northeast (G). That'll be the view from the stands at the new baseball stadium.

Green Bay has more angles to see its downtown skyline from, I think, than normal for a city this size. That may be because the downtown here is concentric, not linear (like College Avenue in downtown Appleton). And because there's a river with bridges running down the middle of it, providing different setbacks and views.

The view from Bay Settlement at the top of the UWGB observation tower across the road from the Cenex? Gas/C-Store. It's just 100 yards north of the SE entrance to campus. You can see the entire city and lower bay. It's pretty cool with binoculars.

I like the view from the north end of Leicht Park, but that's sort of one for the future after Watermark (hopefully) and the old Flatley Park sites are done. But it's a great view of the Main St bridge and downtown buildings. While we await those buildings, my favorite view is from the NE corner of the Brownfield site, right next to the warehouse.

^^ On my way downtown, I took a few shots of the views I mentioned above.

From the north end of Leight (I think one day this will be the nicest view):

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/skyline1.jpg


http://www.danillo.com/ssc/skyline2.jpg

And my current favorite, from the NE corner of the brownfield:


http://www.danillo.com/ssc/skyline3.jpg

^^

Nice photos! Another one I bet would be a good skyline view from the Leicht area would be from the clock tower of Titletown Brewing Co. I was up there once and it's a great perspective.

What's the latest on the planned removal of the former Port Plaza Mall and restoration of the street grid?

Mike

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that mall-removal is less a plan than an intention. The east side seems to have trouble attracting capital. So many obstacles to development! We should just let the monster truck people (or al Qaida) take care of it.

I noticed that La Cocina (Burger Company) is now closed. A sign on the door said they are retired and that an Irish pub will be opening soon.

Anyone know about what is going in there?

I noticed that La Cocina (Burger Company) is now closed. A sign on the door said they are retired and that an Irish pub will be opening soon.

Anyone know about what is going in there?

That owner sure seens to change his mind often. I still think a quality mexican place would be better then an irish pub, but to each his own.

I read an intersting report tracking development trends. Here is the link (http://www.epa.gov/smartgrowth/construction_trends.htm)

The report talks about the shift to redeveloping the inner core or older established cities. Green Bay would be a great example that could be applied to this report, but our trends seem to be 5 to 10 years behind the rest of the nation, which sometimes is a good thing, while other times hinder our progress.

I noticed that La Cocina (Burger Company) is now closed. A sign on the door said they are retired and that an Irish pub will be opening soon.

Anyone know about what is going in there?

Not that a business closing is good for downtown, but I'm not sad to see this guy go. I posted on this months ago, but he 'went into business with' Maria, of Maria's mexican restaurant, and then basically stole her recipes. Karma.

Along those lines, Maria's moved from Irwin, down by Bay Beach, to Lineville Rd. in Howard. We were told they'd be open by the end of February, but it seems like construction has stopped. I really hope nothing bad has happened with that - it's by far the best mexican food in town..

A Green Bay landmark has been removed! Today, I along with my two boys removed the Astrotruf from in front of our house.. (yes, that Astrotruf!).

If you use Facebook, you can view the pictures on my profile:

http://www.facebook.com/djones

I read an intersting report tracking development trends. Here is the link (http://www.epa.gov/smartgrowth/construction_trends.htm)

The report talks about the shift to redeveloping the inner core or older established cities. Green Bay would be a great example that could be applied to this report, but our trends seem to be 5 to 10 years behind the rest of the nation, which sometimes is a good thing, while other times hinder our progress.

I think I've mentioned this before, but the book, "The Option of Urbanism" by Chris Leinberger explains this future trend quite well, and the book takes the slant that the real estate market will drive this trend

A Green Bay landmark has been removed! Today, I along with my two boys removed the Astrotruf from in front of our house.. (yes, that Astrotruf!).

If you use Facebook, you can view the pictures on my profile:

http://www.facebook.com/djones

Wow. I'm not sure I can survive this change. Green Bay just isn't the same without this. This is such big news, I almost logged into Packerland Annals for the first time in eons to blog about it!!

Feel free to use any pictures from Facebook if you do choose to blog about it. I think the response has been pretty interesting!



Wow. I'm not sure I can survive this change. Green Bay just isn't the same without this. This is such big news, I almost logged into Packerland Annals for the first time in eons to blog about it!!

Henri's Music is closing by May. They already closed their Oshkosh location.

I remember when Mason and Military was a good retail area. It still amazes me how the migration to the Bay Park area has really killed off so much other retail (downtown and Mason).

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100329/GPG03/100329161/1978

A Green Bay landmark has been removed! Today, I along with my two boys removed the Astrotruf from in front of our house.. (yes, that Astrotruf!).

Are we switching over to real grass w/ synthetic fibers stitched in just like Lambeau Field?

A Green Bay landmark has been removed! Today, I along with my two boys removed the Astrotruf from in front of our house.. (yes, that Astrotruf!).

WOW... now how will I give directions??? I remember some years ago when they changed from the really "plasticy" green astroturf to the flatter green indoor outdoor carpeting.

As to what can you do now.... there are some good concrete dyes out there... blue would be an interesting change... or get some art students from the HS or college to paint murals on the concrete and change them out each spring... I would suggest investigating how to best clean the surface of the concrete before any other treatment if you keep the concrete.

You can get free paint from the product "exchange room" on S Broadway (near 172 overpass) at the Brown County recycling center. I loved this resource when I repainted my house around the corner from you.

Wish I still lived in the near downtown area. :(

... or get some art students from the HS or college to paint murals on the concrete and change them out each spring... I would suggest investigating how to best clean the surface of the concrete before any other treatment if you keep the concrete.

:(

I agree. Having local HS or college artists use the space for art, (both 2D and 3D), would be cool and highlight and show pride in local talent in the community. And selecting the yearly artwork in Spring would become a news event like the guy with the fence near Lambeau Field.

Another Mason/Military business closes, this time its The Atlanta Bread Co.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100330/GPG03/3300464/1247/Atlanta-Bread-in-Green-Bay-turnkey-mode

A Green Bay landmark has been removed! Today, I along with my two boys removed the Astrotruf from in front of our house.. (yes, that Astrotruf!).

If you use Facebook, you can view the pictures on my profile:

http://www.facebook.com/djones

I can't access facebook from work, so I have to ask - is this the house on the corner of walnut & ashland?

That would be the one.

I can't access facebook from work, so I have to ask - is this the house on the corner of walnut & ashland?

That would be the one.

My wife's grandma used to own that house. When she got older & wasn't able to keep up with the lawn-mowing, that was the "solution". I remember driving by that house & laughing, long before I met my wife.

small world!

I see on my calendar here that Thursday is April Fool's Day.

The results are in and have been tabulated for the poll on the best skyline views of downtown Green Bay. Here are the choices, in chronological order. Thanks for responding!

From the Tilleman Bridge or vicinity looking northeast. (Perhaps best in the afternoon or sunset?)
From the upper floors of Bellin or St. Vincent hospitals looking downtown.
From N. Broadway (or Larsen Green area) looking southeast cross-river.
From the UWGB observation tower on Bay Settlement Rd. looking downtown (especially in the early a.m. on a sunny day).
From the north end of Leicht Park looking southeast (once WaterMark area is developed).

Also mentioned:

"Views from Main St."
"Manufacturing from the I-43 bridge."
"From inside some of the Washington St. buildings."
From E. Mason St. near Rogan's Shoes looking west toward the hospital complex.
From the clock tower at Titletown Brewing looking cross-river.

I see on my calendar here that Thursday is April Fool's Day.

is that in response to my post about astro-lawn? If so, I really am serious about that. I'd driven by that house so many times, laughing each time. Years later I met who was eventually to be my wife. My first Christmas with her family, she tells me that we're going to her grandmother's house & tells me I may know the house, because it has a fake lawn... True story.

is that in response to my post about astro-lawn? If so, I really am serious about that. I'd driven by that house so many times, laughing each time. Years later I met who was eventually to be my wife. My first Christmas with her family, she tells me that we're going to her grandmother's house & tells me I may know the house, because it has a fake lawn... True story.

That's a great story. It's a small world sometimes!

I see on my calendar here that Thursday is April Fool's Day.

BRING IT!! I know you've been working on this for a while, I can't wait to see it!! Hey, if you're blasting people again, just make sure that I make the cut this time!! :mad2:

Henri's Music is closing by May. They already closed their Oshkosh location.

I remember when Mason and Military was a good retail area. It still amazes me how the migration to the Bay Park area has really killed off so much other retail (downtown and Mason).

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100329/GPG03/100329161/1978

Sorry to see Henri's go.

These music places are true 'destinations' for many people. There is the String Instrument Workshop on Broadway, perhaps they will pick up more customers now? Otherwise, there is the "Frankenthal building" which seems like a good fit for a music store, since nobody's gotten that bike store started there yet. Heck, why not combine bikes and music?

Henri's Music is closing by May. They already closed their Oshkosh location.

I remember when Mason and Military was a good retail area. It still amazes me how the migration to the Bay Park area has really killed off so much other retail (downtown and Mason).

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100329/GPG03/100329161/1978

My first thought when I read that article was that I wonder how it will affect school music programs. I seem to remember that they did a lot of instrument rentals for kids & stuff..

Very sorry to see Henri's go... They had what I wanted about a quarter of the time. Heid never has what I want. I'm sad to admit that most of my musical instrument/supply budget (a very small budget) has gone to online retailers. They're prices were quite higher than, say, elderly.com.

Very sorry to see Henri's go... They had what I wanted about a quarter of the time. Heid never has what I want. I'm sad to admit that most of my musical instrument/supply budget (a very small budget) has gone to online retailers. They're prices were quite higher than, say, elderly.com.

Well I think that most retail is going to keep following this same path, especially in the more niche areas. The service sector will be all that will remain in these population challenged areas. I assume that the need for lessons will still exist and if the need is there someone/something will fill the gap. Its sad to see all the long established businesses falter, but its even more painfull to see business move to the fringe just as the gas prices are about to explode. :ohno:

Update on Renard Isle. The county wants to cap it with gravel and sand. The city and five of its neighborhood associations want to cap it, instead, with surplus clay as a better way to prevent PCBs from getting into the air and water. In this article, the causeway to be constructed to the island is called a "temporary causeway." Renard Isle was built in 1978 and reached its capacity in the early '90s. Press-Gazette photo below shows the island in its early stages of creation.
www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100329/GPG0101/3290496/-1/archive

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-38-11.jpg


The On Broadway Farmers Market is moving off the sidewalks into the street. Starting this year, two blocks of Broadway (Walnut to Dousman) will be closed 2-8 p.m. each Wednesday from June 2 to Oct. 13 for the market. This is the market's seventh year. Has more than 100 vendors and can attract up to 4,000 people at a time. Also includes live music.
www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100330/GPG0101/3300506/-1/archive


Fox River Heritage Paddle 2010 from Portage to Green Bay, April 24 to August 14, ending here during the Tall Ship Festival. It's a series of 13 kayak and canoe trips covering 125 miles over 9 weekends on the upper and lower Fox River. Open to the public.
www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100330/GPG0101/3300512/-1/archive


Asian carp search-and-destroy mission turns up nothing harmful. Barriers holding for now.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100330/GPG0101/3300507/-1/archive


Draft long-range plan announced for the Port of Green Bay. Press-Gazette photo below.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100330/GPG03/3300462/-1/archive

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-39-10.jpg

Mayor Schmitt gave his annual State of the City address last night. Some new newsy development stuff or updates from his speech. The full text of his speech is available at the Press-Gazette link.

www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100331/GPG0101/3310632/1978

• The mayor mentioned redevelopment of the former Younkers building "beginning this summer."

• Next month the city will solicit nationally for developers to convert Port Plaza Towers back into a top-flight hotel "on par with the Pfister or Palmer House and be a destination of prominence in the downtown."

• City has submitted a request for $3 million to the federal government to raze Washington Commons; the vacated five-acre property will create three to four development parcels.

• City is working with a consultant to plan expansion of the KI Center by about 50,000 square feet.

• Groundbreaking set for April 29 for the Salvation Army's new $21 million Ray & Joan Kroc Corps Community Center on Lime Kiln Rd.

• "We continue to work on relocating the coal piles by conducting a study to assess the long-term needs of C. Reiss."

• Velp Ave. set for reconstruction in 2012.

• The Cellcom Green Bay Marathon has been rerouted for this year's race to include the CityDeck.

• The Zippin Pippin's first scheduled ride is set for May 7, 2011.


Speaking of the Hotel Northland, a view of the hotel and N. Adams Street looking north, from the 1950s. By the way, the Hotel Astor was the site of a big fire (in the early 1960s, I believe) that resulted in some deaths and, I remember, made the CBS Evening News.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/1250281355.jpg

I had the same thought. My kids got their instruments via Henri's rental program.

My first thought when I read that article was that I wonder how it will affect school music programs. I seem to remember that they did a lot of instrument rentals for kids & stuff..

Fox River Heritage Paddle 2010 from Portage to Green Bay, April 24 to August 14, ending here during the Tall Ship Festival. It's a series of 13 kayak and canoe trips covering 125 miles over 9 weekends on the upper and lower Fox River. Open to the public.
www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100330/GPG0101/3300512/-1/archive


I REALLY want to do this! I've been dreaming about doint this for years. I don't have much paddling experience though, in fact I don't even own any sort of kayak or canoe. Anyone else here on this forum doing this? What's the best place where I can find an inexpensive but good kayak?

A Green Bay landmark has been removed! Today, I along with my two boys removed the Astrotruf from in front of our house.. (yes, that Astrotruf!).

If you use Facebook, you can view the pictures on my profile:

http://www.facebook.com/djones

WOW I actually help install the original plastic grass at that corner back in 1970 something can't remember the year any longer somwhere beytween 74 and 78. I worked for Carpets by Gettleman at the time.

WOW I actually help install the original plastic grass at that corner back in 1970 something can't remember the year any longer somwhere beytween 74 and 78. I worked for Carpets by Gettleman at the time.

Somehow everyone's had something to do with all legendary Green Bay places and events. NowPC2's turf grass story is akin to the Ice Bowl....Everyone from Green Bay had something to do with them both!!:lol:

I lived just a few doors down from it (609 w. Walnut) for two years, does that count?

I lived just a few doors down from it (609 w. Walnut) for two years, does that count?

ok that makes at least 3 of us who lived within a block of each other over the years... interesting... :)

I was on the corner of Walnut and Maple... my empty lot was officially 601 W Walnut when I bought it and merged it with the house lot...

Maybe it was mentioned already, but Julies Cafe on military Ave is closing, or I should say moving to another location out of the city. The area is taking a hit.

This just moved on the wires 15 minutes ago. Completely unexpected. This is terrific!

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-23-1.jpg
Coast Guard boats under construction at ACE Marine LLC in Green Bay, Wis. (Defense Department Photo)


Great Lakes Contractor to Build Submarine

Washington (AP) The Defense Department today awarded a $3.9 billion contract to a Great Lakes boat builder to construct the U.S. Navy's next nuclear-powered Trident-class submarine.

The award went to ACE Marine LLC of Green Bay, Wis., currently under contract with the U.S. Coast Guard to build 90 RB-M patrol vessels. ACE won over Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics and Frigidaire for the much-sought contract.

Designated the USS Spread Eagle (SSBN 791), the new submarine will be one of 19 Trident or Ohio-class submarines built for the Navy and will home port in Milwaukee. It will serve under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Central Command-Asia and will patrol the waters of Afghanistan when completed.

With the Pentagon's announcement, ACE surpasses the nearby Oshkosh Corp. as Wisconsin's largest defense contractor.

Defense analyst Brian Brohm says the Defense Department's decision to award its submarine contract to a Great Lakes boat builder was unexpected. "They haven't built submarines on the Great Lakes in 50 years, so this comes as a complete surprise."

ACE President Joseph Chadwick says the Spread Eagle will be built in units, with completed portions shipped by river barge to a vacant area for assembly near an amusement park on the Lake Michigan shoreline nearby. The submarine is expected to be launched from the assembly point in 2016.

Chadwick also says ACE will ramp up employment at its Wisconsin yard from 100 to 3,000 within six months. "We'll be purchasing nearby properties, including an area designated for a minor league ballpark."

Green Bay, Wis. Mayor Jim Schmitt says his city, until informed of the contract Wednesday, had planned to erect a large roller coaster in the area where the Spread Eagle will be assembled. He now says the roller coaster "will just have to go elsewhere, maybe downtown. We have the room."

ACE Marine LLC of Green Bay is a part of the Fincantieri Marine Group. FMG also includes the Cleveland Ship Repair Co. in Ohio and Marinette Marine Corp. and Bay Shipbuilding Co. in Wisconsin. FMG is a subsidiary of the Italian company Fincantieri-Cantieri Navali Italiani S.p.A., one of the largest designers and builders of merchant and naval ships in the world.

This is the Fincantieri group's first submarine contract.

http://news.yahoo.com/tridentcontract040110xxKDJF3

About one of Green Bay's more fabulous historic houses, the Joannes House - part of the Press-Gazette's ongoing architectural series. Located in the Astor Historic District at 902 S. Madison St. Three stories, 7,100 square feet. The paper quotes its style as "Chateauesque" (never heard of that one), but I would just call it Queen Anne (I used to do historic architectural surveys for the state). Most Queen Anne's, though, are wood; it's unusual to find one around here in brick. For this one, they call it "Belgian red brick." Built in or about 1900 by grocery wholesaler Mitchell Joannes with his wife, Fannie, and designed by the noted GB architect Henry Foeller. In the first and most recent photo, some of the wood trim is painted in a color(s) other than white. That other color(s) may be more historically accurate. The other photo with all-white trim was taken some three years ago.

www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100331/GPG04/3310616/-1/archive
www.ci.green-bay.wi.us/HistoricPreservation/2007_awards.html (scroll down a bit)

First photo top left by Warren Gerds of the Press-Gazette. Other photos by the Green Bay Historic Preservation Commission. I'll stop posting now.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-38-12.jpghttp://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/902_s_madison.jpghttp://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/902SMadison.jpghttp://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/902SMadison2.jpghttp://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/902SMadison3.jpg

New Plan to be Unveiled for Site 4

A new mixed-use tower is being proposed for one the Green Bay's prime riverfront parcels. Sources close to the developer, Guy VonJetter, call the proposal, "totally precedented, like things we have seen before." Local development expert Dan Moore, having seen details of the plan, said, "I like that they plan to start this with a foundation. In my expert opinion, buildings last longer and look better when you start with a foundation, and they plan to do that here." More details will be released next week at a press conference to be held on the City Deck.

New Hospital to be Build Downtown

Branching out into new areas of medicine, pharmaceutical company Pfizer has plans to erect a giant tower downtown. The hospital will specialize in short-term, outpatient medicine, with a source indicating that "you only go to the hospital when you need it, and if you are there more than four hours, arrangements will be made to transfer you to another facility." Medical services excerpt Dan Moore commented, "as an expert in the medical industry, I can say without qualification that five area hospitals would be one more than four."

Bullfrogs Ready for New Season

With spring in the air, the Green Bay Bullfrogs are preparing for their new season. Owner Jeff Royal stated that he hopes the team "will really have a great year, and end our time in Joannes on a high note." Another team insider, calling himself "ifyoubuildit," added "I agree with everything Royal said, and everything he ever will say. Royal is just a great guy. Sometimes it's eerie just how similar we are... as though we are controlled by the same mind."

On the topic of the team's chances this year, insider baseball expert Dan Moore said, "There are two keys this season. 1) the pitchers need to hold the team to as few runs as possible, then 2) the offense needs to score at lease one more run that the pitching gives up. I think if the team can do that consistently, they are going to win some games."

Moore Hired to Advise City Leaders

In a unexpected move, the City of Green Bay has hired local designer Dan Moore to advise them on everything. Said Moore, "I'm an expert on personnel matters, and if I were them I'd hire me too." Commenting on the move, an area resident identifying himself as "TP" applauded the move, calling Moore an "expert on everything."

Happy first of April everyone. :cheers:

^^

There's so much going on in Green Bay, my head's spinning. Danillo, your sources are impressive. And this Dan Moore, he truly is the expert on everything. Like that other know-it-all, TP, known in some circles as BM.

^^

There's so much going on in Green Bay, my head's spinning. Danillo, your sources are impressive. And this Dan Moore, he truly is the expert on everything. Like that other know-it-all, TP, known in some circles as BM.

What about the just announced agreement to merge all of the cities, villages and townships in Brown County into a single combined city-county?

:dance:

Mike

CBS has announced that the TV series "Survivor" will shoot the series finale in downtown Green Bay in 2011. The season's episodes will be dubbed, "Survivor Green Bay: It Don't Get No Harder Den Dis".

The basic concept behind this popular TV series is that contestants are sent to desolate places where they are isolated from society and must fend for their food, build their own shelter, and compete against each other in games of skill and endurance.

CBS officials have confirmed that some of the contestant challenges will include:

*Attending a City Council meeting for its duration. Contestants will attempt to outwit, outplay and outlast city council members as they debate insignificant agenda items ad nauseum and then strike down truly significant projects with vengeance.

*Developing a real estate project in the downtown. This will be the most significant challenge in series history, despite players being fronted $50 million in capital by the TV network. Contestants will be forced to deal with contaminant cleanup, poor foundations, limited market demand, city politics, and the overwhelming pessimism of the overall community.

*Swimming in the Fox River. CBS officials have reportedly looking to boost the show's ratings by creating a challenge that will likely result in the first actual fatality in the show's history. Because of the gruesome nature of the Fox River Swim, the show will be aired late at night so that young viewers will not be traumatized.

The Immunity Idol will be a Don Majkowski figurine with full permed mullet. Losers will be exiled into the former Port Plaza Mall building.

Producer and host Jeff Probst admitted, "This will be, by far, the most challenging Survivor yet.".

Montreal, QC April 1, 2010

Air Canada to begin service to Green Bay

Air Canada announced today that it will begin air service between Montreal, QC and Green Bay, WI. Flights are to begin on June 7, 2010.

Airport Director Miller announced that with this new service, Austin Straubel will live up to its name as an international airport. Beginning in May, airport engineers will begin putting up bilingual signage throughout the airport in both English and French. All announcements over the public address system will also be in both languages beginning on June 7th.

Ms. Ima Ghenst, President of the Green Bay Chapter of Daughters for an English Speaking World immediately denounced the impending changes at the airport. She was quoted as saying "nothing personal against those Canadian frogs; but, they should learn how to speak English. If it was good enough for Jesus it should be good enough for them."

In all seriousness - the boat slips are in at Riverside Place and they look pretty cool

Does it really have to end? April 1st is so much fun around here. Thanks for the entertaining posts, all.

Good to hear about the boat slips being in.

I vote for Puant's as my favorite. The bit about the Fox River put it over the top for me. Too funny.

I'll have to take a look at the slips this weekend. Good to hear they're in.

Great development news stories guys.

Tower gets the award for :Keeping the Ruse Going to the End" with his posting of the link to Yahoo News. http://news.yahoo.com/tridentcontract040110xxKDJF3. I knew it was fake but I had to click on it anyway.

What made me laugh the most was Puant's The Immunity Idol will be a Don Majkowski figurine with full permed mullet.

Great stuff, I can't wait until next year for more fun.

When out for my daily walk we noticed this as well. They look pretty cool! A nice addition to Riverside Place.

In all seriousness - the boat slips are in at Riverside Place and they look pretty cool

I vote for Puant's as my favorite..

I don't know about that but....I can't argue with a know-it-all...

So I thought Tower Park had been storing up like 20 faux posts over the last few months, I expected a barrage of funny posts from him. Well I did LMAO at what was posted by y'all. Nice.

Also, I am happy to see the new boat slips, and the ideas still coming from the mayor's speech. I'm starting to feel a bit more optimistic for the future of DTGB again.

On another note, if you get a chance, go up to the mouth of the Fox River where the new marina is...there are a bunch of those new Coast Guard boats docked there...the ones being constructed at the K&K dock. They look pretty cool.

Re: downtown skyline. Here's another view I just saw on the web today. Looks like it was taken from inside the Chamber of Commerce or the Vincent Urban Walker insurance building. Nice wintry view of Titletown and the Main Street area skyline in the background.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/view-of-titletown-brewing.jpg


Great to hear Austin Straubel is starting direct flights to Montreal. That on top of the earlier announcement about direct service to Frankfurt, Brussels and Warsaw. With ACE Marine in town, it's probably only a matter of time before Green Bay has direct flights to Rome as well. Local aviation expert Dan Moore says these new flights should boost passenger totals at Austin Straubel.

Was driving down Danz Ave. near Danz Elementary School today and noticed for the first time the old Green Bay & Western Railroad trackbed in that area, with the tracks now removed, looks like it's become at least an unofficial trail. Maybe this is old news and I'm behind the times. But I wonder if Green Bay has already made or is planning to turn at least part of the old GB&W trackbed on the east side into a trail. The GB&W tracks ran through the Baird Creek Parkway, I think, so a trail in that area would be quite scenic.

I don't know about that but....I can't argue with a know-it-all...

So I thought Tower Park had been storing up like 20 faux posts over the last few months, I expected a barrage of funny posts from him. Well I did LMAO at what was posted by y'all. Nice.

Also, I am happy to see the new boat slips, and the ideas still coming from the mayor's speech. I'm starting to feel a bit more optimistic for the future of DTGB again.

On another note, if you get a chance, go up to the mouth of the Fox River where the new marina is...there are a bunch of those new Coast Guard boats docked there...the ones being constructed at the K&K dock. They look pretty cool.

Wish I could post more fp's. But I've been taken to the woodshed. I'm trying very, very, very hard to restrain myself. Survivor was great!...Might make a good picture to see the new Coast Guard boats docked together on the Fox. Thanks for pointing that out.

I had dinner at Lee's Cantonese tonight and got a chance to talk to Peter Lee about the new restaurant he's opening on the corner of University and Danz Aves. It's going to be called Lucky's and will be a combination Chinese food and American steak joint. There will be large screen TVs like a sports bar and an outdoor seating area with a smoothie bar. He said he hopes to open in May if all goes well.

I asked if he would bring back the Wednesday Night Flaming Volcano drink special he ran in the late '80s at City Lights, which was located on the corner of University Ave and Rothe St., and he said "Sure." That was my favorite drink special in GB from those days.

Originally posted by TowerPark

Was driving down Danz Ave. near Danz Elementary School today and noticed for the first time the old Green Bay & Western Railroad trackbed in that area, with the tracks now removed, looks like it's become at least an unofficial trail. Maybe this is old news and I'm behind the times. But I wonder if Green Bay has already made or is planning to turn at least part of the old GB&W trackbed on the east side into a trail. The GB&W tracks ran through the Baird Creek Parkway, I think, so a trail in that area would be quite scenic.

The tracks were removed last summer and yes that rail spur will be the new trail which they will in a few days start construction on and paving all the way to the parking lot on Baird Creek Rd. near Superior Rd.

The low area next to the trail and across the street from Danz school will be developed as a natural wetland instead of the retaining pond that was originally proposed.

Not development news, per se, but a couple of more views regarding the city council elections on Tuesday and how some incumbents, cough, cough...Guy Zima have scared off developers.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100402/GPG0101/100402110/1978

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100401/GPG0602/4010620

Anyone on this board that is able to vote, please do so!

As cited by Morse last night, front-page headline in today's Press-Gazette above the fold: "City Memo Alleges that Zima Choked Woman." This is in advance of Tuesday's City Council elections. I wonder if this story will hurt Zima or rally him and his base. My hunch is it's not enough and the timing is seen as too suspicious. Zima re-elected.

^^ Zima's something of a Green Bay institution, for better or worse. I'd be stunned if he lost.

In all seriousness - the boat slips are in at Riverside Place and they look pretty cool

Agreed. The slips look nice. The only bad part is the doors, but I can see why they'd have those to protect the boats. At least the center part is accessible to the public.

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/docks1.jpg

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/docks2.jpg

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/docks3.jpg

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/docks4.jpg

On another note, if you get a chance, go up to the mouth of the Fox River where the new marina is...there are a bunch of those new Coast Guard boats docked there...the ones being constructed at the K&K dock. They look pretty cool.

Very cool, and awesome that they are made right in downtown Green Bay.

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/coastguard1.jpg

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/coastguard2.jpg

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/coastguard3.jpg

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/coastguard4.jpg

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/coastguard5.jpg

http://www.danillo.com/ssc/coastguard6.jpg

LoL those April Fools stories were great everyone! Just surprised no one brought up the story about Brett Favre going to the Chicago Bears

"I plan on playing for all of the NFC North teams now that i've played for 2 of em."

Jean Wolfgang (of which the story is partly about) is one of my best friends. I have known about these issues for several years. I also know she is happy not working in Green Bay any longer.

I received a flyer from Guy Zima today in my doorway. In it he talked about the things he stood against recently such as the Zippin Pippin, the City Deck and roundabouts. All things that I support.

I understand that many do not want to spend to develope this city and that is their right, the only thing I would like to see is a more positive and constructive discussion where people work to make this city better not just fight to stop things.

P.S. I LOVE the City Deck!

Not development news, per se, but a couple of more views regarding the city council elections on Tuesday and how some incumbents, cough, cough...Guy Zima have scared off developers.

Jean Wolfgang (of which the story is partly about) is one of my best friends. I have known about these issues for several years. I also know she is happy not working in Green Bay any longer.

I received a flyer from Guy Zima today in my doorway. In it he talked about the things he stood against recently such as the Zippin Pippin, the City Deck and roundabouts. All things that I support.

I understand that many do not want to spend to develope this city and that is their right, the only thing I would like to see is a more positive and constructive discussion where people work to make this city better not just fight to stop things.

P.S. I LOVE the City Deck!

Not to make this a political forum, but I also received a flier in the mail today from the person running against alderman Jerry Wiezbiskie. This person who like Alderman Zima, is also opposed to all the great things happening in GB. One thing that bothers me is, I understand that people will always be opposed to some things, please tell me what you stand for and what you can do to improve the city, only criticizing others and not offering any ideas in my opinion is not a good candidate to help lead the city. I think that Mr. Wiezbiskie seems to be one of the hardest working members of the council, he is involved with many committees and faithfully attends the GBNLC and many neighborhood association meetings.

I still cant wait to ride the Zippen Pippen baby...

Speaking of the CityDeck, they are really making progress with the section in front of Prange's. New pavers laid and lots done towards raising the grade above where it needs to be for flood reasons. I'm still hearing positive things about the Watermark starting this summer, so hopefully that will come to be as the CityDeck deserves and needs a finished product there.

Adding to GBSurveyors post, it isn't just that some of the people aren't for anything constructive, it's that their reasons for being against things are not based on reality. They are either not informed as to the truth of these matters, or they are aware but are deliberatly misleading voters. Either way the are demonstrating that they are unfit for office.

Have you heard anything about the lighting they were to put under the benches?

Speaking of the CityDeck, they are really making progress with the section in front of Prange's.

I was in Zimas district for 24 years and one thing you could count on was if you had a problem he would help you resolve it. There were several projects he helped me with over the years, street repaired when no one else downtown would listen, parking problems caused by West HS students when the district did not care. He keeps getting re elected because he listens to the people in his district. And over those years I had a number of disagreements with how he did things but the positive out weighed the bad. But even today even though I no longer live over there, I disagree with his stand on the roller coaster and roundabouts but agree with him that the city deck just a huge waste of money and even a worse idea now that some people think they have a right to control it, charge people to use it and deny people the right to enjoy it as they see fit. But that is what we have come to accept as the norm for the downtown people.

Have you heard anything about the lighting they were to put under the benches?



I haven't heard. The wiring is there, I don't know about the actual lights as I've never looked under the benches. Perhaps the benches being built in front of the Watermark need to be done before all the bench lights can be turned on.

Agreed. The slips look nice. The only bad part is the doors, but I can see why they'd have those to protect the boats. At least the center part is accessible to the public.

Thanks for all the great photos!

I received a flyer from Guy Zima today in my doorway.

I wonder if you received a flyer as well at some point from his opponent. About the only way possible to beat Zima, I think, is to out-campaign him. Door-to-door. Flyers in the mail. Pamphlet drops. Yard Signs. Maybe even a radio commercial or two. Etc. Get an early start on campaigning. Talk to people who know his record on the City Council and County Board. Research his some 35-year voting record. Check newspaper microfilm and newspaper clipping files for statements and actions of his over the years. There's plenty of material to work with . . . but one has to have the time and energy. He could be beat(en?), but it would take a considerable effort.


U.S. Census estimates that, from 2000 to 2009, Brown County was the third fastest growing county in Wisconsin numerically (20,541, behind Dane and Waukesha counties) and ninth largest in the state by percentage. The City of Green Bay's population looks like it may be topping out at around 105,000, barring any future annexations, etc. (unlikely).

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100405/GPG0101/4050498/1978

Press-Gazette comments on the State of the City address.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100405/GPG0602/4050499/1269/GPG06/Editorial--Green-Bay-Mayor-Jim-Schmitt-s-big-vision-appears-sound

VOTE TUESDAY. City Council and County Board elections. Green Bay School Board and two GB school referendums. Some suburban contests too. My recommendation on the GB school referendums would be to vote yes on both. That would mean building repairs, computer upgrades and construction jobs. Don't vote for Christiansen on the School Board, I would advise.

P.S. I'm concerned that one or both of the school referendum questions could be defeated. Some business leaders are supportive, but the Chamber of Commerce's support was qualified. Another group that said it would be neutral on the questions effectively has campaigned against them.

Can you explain this in more detail. I have not heard of plans to charge for use of the City Deck and I know that I have been using it almost daily without issue.

agree with him that the city deck just a huge waste of money and even a worse idea now that some people think they have a right to control it, charge people to use it and deny people the right to enjoy it as they see fit. But that is what we have come to accept as the norm for the downtown people.

I don't think that Mike Iwinski has done as much as is needed but I did see a vast improvement over the last campaign. With that said, I don't know if its enough.

If Mr. Iwinski is not successful, I think whoever runs against Mr. Zima will have to do a huge amount of work starting much earlier. They will need a consistent communication with the voters early and often.

One final thought, a lot of what I hear about why people support Mr. Zima in the district is because he 'gets things done' for them. Any candidate running against him will have to find a better value to offer the residents of the district. Most of his supporters I have talked to are not as worried about citywide issues as we all seem more focused on.

I wonder if you received a flyer as well at some point from his opponent. About the only way possible to beat Zima, I think, is to out-campaign him.

One final thought, a lot of what I hear about why people support Mr. Zima in the district is because he 'gets things done' for them. Any candidate running against him will have to find a better value to offer the residents of the district. Most of his supporters I have talked to are not as worried about citywide issues as we all seem more focused on.

That's an excellent point. The micro vs. the macro thing. How do you get the voter to change focus from "he got that pothole on my street fixed" (which any good Council member should be able to do) to, instead, things like his voting record and behavior in and outside of City Hall over the years and what kind of overall representative for the City of Green Bay he is.

I don't think that Mike Iwinski has done as much as is needed but I did see a vast improvement over the last campaign. With that said, I don't know if its enough.

If Mr. Iwinski is not successful, I think whoever runs against Mr. Zima will have to do a huge amount of work starting much earlier. They will need a consistent communication with the voters early and often.

One final thought, a lot of what I hear about why people support Mr. Zima in the district is because he 'gets things done' for them. Any candidate running against him will have to find a better value to offer the residents of the district. Most of his supporters I have talked to are not as worried about citywide issues as we all seem more focused on.

I personally have not had good experiences with Mr Iwinski, however I have been treating him as the enemy of my enemy might just be a friend.

However as former resident of Zima's district, I also am aware Mr Zima can get things done. I think it's as much as "let's do anything to get this guy out of my office" as an alderman doing his job.

One thing about that district, most people are insulated and do not link people knocking on their doors. I spoke with someone who mounted a huge campaign a few years ago. He did multiple literature drops highlighting his record and what he would do as well as Zima's record of comments, offences etc. He also tons of yard signs and tons of business support from the neighborhood and from the members of the neighborhood. He started 8 months before the election and put in hundreds of hours going from door to door and talking to people on the street, etc. There was a record turnout in the district against Zima and still Zima won with a record number of people voting for him.

Zima is financial adviser to many of the elderly members of his district and he is "rumored" to even help them take out the trash for the month or so leading up to the election. That is VERY hard to overcome by anyone.

I will be very interested in the outcome of the election. Also in the school district referendum vote.

That's an excellent point. The micro vs. the macro thing. How do you get the voter to change focus from "he got that pothole on my street fixed" (which any good Council member should be able to do) to, instead, things like his voting record and behavior in and outside of City Hall over the years and what kind of overall representative for the City of Green Bay he is.

Does anyone think that Vander Beast will get beat? What is the community thoughts on him? I have heard a lot of good things about his opponent, Danzinger.

I hear his opponent is pretty smart but we all know that is not always an asset in Green Bay.

My thought is that if you are an alderman and you sue the city for $1M you should be required to step down.

Does anyone think that Vander Beast will get beat? What is the community thoughts on him? I have heard a lot of good things about his opponent, Danzinger.

My guess is Vander Leest is re-elected. He may be another one tough to beat, unless he beats himself at some point.

dmsklutz: Good point. Even with a good campaign, it's a tough slog in that district. If they have the time and energy, though, I hope people keep trying.

Green Bay's first Earth Day parade set for April 24 downtown. Parade begins at Broadway and Hubbard. 30 floats, hybrid vehicles, band, bicyclists, marchers, etc.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100406/GPG0101/4060559/1978

The James St. Inn and its attached Andrew's restaurant have closed. That's a big blow for downtown De Pere. They're working to find a buyer. Article says there are some 4,300 lodging rooms in Brown County.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100406/GPG03/4060539/1247/James-Street-Inn--Andrew-s-Fine-Dining-in-De-Pere-close

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/webbigoutside3.jpg

U.S. Census estimates that, from 2000 to 2009, Brown County was the third fastest growing county in Wisconsin numerically (20,541, behind Dane and Waukesha counties) and ninth largest in the state by percentage. The City of Green Bay's population looks like it may be topping out at around 105,000, barring any future annexations, etc. (unlikely).

I think we can add several thousand more by (A) filling the farmland in the far east side and (B) building vertically downtown.

^^

I don't think they meant topping out permanently, I believe they meant the top range for this census is about 105k.

Saw some cement work going on inside one of the units for lease in the Cherry Street ramp this morning...a possible new tenant or maybe maintenance work? - anyone have any idea?

The James St. Inn and its attached Andrew's restaurant have closed. That's a big blow for downtown De Pere. They're working to find a buyer. Article says there are some 4,300 lodging rooms in Brown County.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100406/GPG03/4060539/1247/James-Street-Inn--Andrew-s-Fine-Dining-in-De-Pere-close

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/webbigoutside3.jpg

I would like to live here. This building would make awesome condos. The location, the views, the facility, all spectacular. Not to say it would ALL have to be turned into residential condos, but part of it could, and the remaining could hopefully reopen as another restaurant or something. Damn I wish I was filthy rich so I could play with projects like this! Such a cool, cool, cool place.

Does this place still generate its own electricity from the river flowing beneath it? Not sure if the turbines are still functioning.

If you're so inclined, you can follow the election results tonight in Brown County here. Refresh for latest results. Polls just closed at 8 pm.

http://www.co.brown.wi.us/i_brown/d/county_clerk/2010aprel45.htm

Vander Leest loses by 40 votes, 49-51% (City Council)!! (He's re-elected to the County Board.)


Zima wins 60-40%. Wiezbiskie wins 60-40%. Both school referendums pass 65-35%. Warren, Jeffreys, Wagner elected to GB School Board. Other interesting results.

Vander Leest loses by 40 votes, 49-51% (City Council)!! (He's re-elected to the County Board.)


Zima wins 60-40%. Wiezbiskie wins 65-35%. Both school referendums pass 65-35%. Warren, Jeffreys, Wagner elected to GB School Board. Other interesting results.

It will be interesting, there will be some new members on the council.
I see that in District 6, Piton lost by 6 votes to Sortwell.
District 7 Dorf will replace Jeffries.
District 11 will be is Danzinger instead of Vander Least.
District 12 Buckley will replace Weber

I'm sad to see that Tom Webber lost. He was my favorite council member. I don't know that much about Buckley, but It doesn't sound like he'll be bad (and by bad I mean relative to what I'd like to see). But still, I'll miss Webber.

This Sortwell is going to be a real doozy. I think he's going to be like mini-Zima, except Zima usually has some logic behind what he says even if I think he's wrong. This Sortwell seems like someone who isn't going to let any amount of evidence keep him from being opposed to it... no matter what "it" is.

Overall the makeup of the council hasn't been altered all that much it would seem. While things can be a real pain, lets not forget that for the past 10 years or so, EVERY significant vote has gone in favor of progress downtown. I don't see anything tonight that will upset that trend.

I am sorry to see Dan Piton lose. I really like him. And by *6* votes. I hear that Storwell is against the Zippin Pippin spenidng which we all know I support.

Very happy to see Ned Dorf win. He is a really good guy and was very supportive of the CityDeck.

Anyone know Danzinger and Buckley's views on development topics?

It will be interesting, there will be some new members on the council.

Lets hope that continues. Even with the WaterMark issues, Downtown has made such great improvements in the past few years.

I will say, I do miss the mall, or retail in general, but you can't have it all (yet).

Overall the makeup of the council hasn't been altered all that much it would seem. While things can be a real pain, lets not forget that for the past 10 years or so, EVERY significant vote has gone in favor of progress downtown. I don't see anything tonight that will upset that trend.

From a distance, it does look like maybe the elections were indeed a wash for the City Council. Lost Piton to Sortwell (by 6 votes!) but picked up Danzinger over Vander Leest. That's assuming Buckley is okay as Weber's replacement. Buckley also won election to the County Board. I think I read he's a former or retired GB police officer. And Jeffreys' former seat looks to be in good hands with Dorff. . . . Will keep an eye on Sortwell. He told the Press-Gazette he opposes further funding for CityDeck and supports "stopping investment in other projects," as the paper worded it.

Looks like the County Board lost two good ones in Adam Warpinski (far east side Green Bay, including UWGB) and Patty Hoeft (Hobart). In a County Board district that covers half of De Pere, the winner was Kris Schuller, a former reporter and news anchor at WFRV. Schuller now handles communications — including the Highway 41 six-laning projects — for the DOT regional office in Green Bay.

On Vander Leest, I figured he had lost some support with his $1 million lawsuit against the city (he has since withdrawn the dollar amount, but the lawsuit remains) but then, I figured, he picked up support with his opposition to the Military Avenue roundabouts. Yes, he had a good opponent, but we all know the "better" candidate doesn't always win. . . . I was very surprised the school referendums passed by such a wide margin. Given everything, I thought it would be a close vote, with possibly both questions being defeated.

What about the just announced agreement to merge all of the cities, villages and townships in Brown County into a single combined city-county? Mike

Voters yesterday approved merging Brown County with all its municipalities into one city. Just kidding!

I would like to live here. This building would make awesome condos. The location, the views, the facility, all spectacular. Not to say it would ALL have to be turned into residential condos, but part of it could, and the remaining could hopefully reopen as another restaurant or something. Damn I wish I was filthy rich so I could play with projects like this! Such a cool, cool, cool place.

Does this place still generate its own electricity from the river flowing beneath it? Not sure if the turbines are still functioning.

Condos. That sounds like a great idea. I wonder if they'll look into that possibility. Not sure what's going on underneath the building today.

Anyone know Danzinger and Buckley's views on development topics?

Danzinger has been a long time supporter and volunteer with On Broadway, inc so I would expect he will support most of the downtown development.

Can you explain this in more detail. I have not heard of plans to charge for use of the City Deck and I know that I have been using it almost daily without issue.

There have been some rumors and information that some of the "festivals" and events planned for the deck will have an admission fee.

Daily use will continue to be free to walk, except bikers and roller-bladers who are supposed to have a trail pass from the State of Wisconsin as the deck is part of the Fox River Trail which is a state trail. ($3/day or $20/year)

I would guess for the festivals or events they will be fencing off the deck.

Don't get me started on those fees. :) Thats why I like the East River trail better scenery, less traffic and I am not a criminal when I am using it. :)

Don't get me started on those fees. :) Thats why I like the East River trail better scenery, less traffic and I am not a criminal when I am using it. :)

And you're really a criminal if your wheels are attached to a board because the city banned skateboarding downtown in the '90s. In addition to that I'm confident that a downtown resident will complain about the skateboarders down there now and the city will happily pass another ordinance banning skateboards specifically from the CD. Skateboarders on the Deck already face two charges, no trail pass and no 'boarding downtown, why not another one that's unenforceable?

Fees are not exactly crazy. I'm assuming that most things will not have fees, of course. But Milwaukee has a ton of festivals with fees. Taste on Broadway has fees, but it's done through tickets. I think a lot of people would prefer an event where you paid a set fee at the gate and could go from booth to booth without regard for tickets. I went to a cheese festival in Eagle River last year that charged a fee. When I lived in Chicago they'd have festivals with fees on the street, so you'd literally have to go down a different block if you didn't want to participate. That was far more intrusive than this would be. So, I really don't think there's anything wrong with some festivals charging fees so long as it's done appropriately and the festival provides value.

Daily use will continue to be free to walk, except bikers and roller-bladers who are supposed to have a trail pass from the State of Wisconsin as the deck is part of the Fox River Trail which is a state trail. ($3/day or $20/year)

The Fox River Trail ends at Porlier St. Everything north of there is not part of the state trail, and not subject to state trail pass fees. As such, you can ride you bike up and down the CityDeck all day for free.

As an aside, while I think that the state trail pass is real value for the money, I'd like to see construction and maintenance of the trails paid through the transportation fund like any other road, and the pass fee eliminated. But I'm not going to complain because the trails aren't free to build or maintain, and the pass fee is the way we fund them.

There are two principles of paying taxes. The Ability-to-Pay Principle states that wealthier citizens should pay more for government services, even if they do not directly benefit from them (although they do indirectly, whether they realize it or not). The Benefit Principle states that citizens who directly benefit from government services should pay most or all of the taxes on them.

Many conservatives prefer the Benefit Principle because they feel it is unfair for the rich to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes, and that it reduces the incentive to work. Accepting this, conservatives should embrace fees more than taxes.

Incidentally, some complain about Wisconsin's high tax burden, but other states skew this statistic by charging fees for garbage pickup and many other services which Wisconsinites take for granted. And even when our state does charge fees they are often much less than other states.

Big announcement tomorrow at 10:30 on the City Deck concerning the Children's Museum and WaterMark.

WHEDA Leader To Make Significant Economic Development Announcement in Green Bay

Green Bay – Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority (WHEDA) Executive Director Antonio Riley will make an economic development and job growth announcement Friday, April 9th at 10:30 a.m. at the City Deck gathering area in Green Bay. Riley will announce that Vetter Denk Properties, a Milwaukee-based architectural firm, is receiving federal New Markets Tax Credits to continue its revitalization efforts of downtown Green Bay’s waterfront area. Riley will be joined by Green Bay Mayor Jim Schmitt and Children’s Museum of Green Bay Executive Director Toni Burnett.

Vetter Denk will be using the tax credit allocation from Wisconsin Community Development Legacy Fund, a Community Development Entity comprised of WHEDA, Legacy Bancorp and Impact Seven, to begin construction of the River Center, that will accommodate the new Children’s Museum of Green Bay, and the rehabilitation the WaterMark building, which will convert a six-story former warehouse into mixed-use commercial space.

WHERE: City Deck Gathering Area
333 N. Washington Avenue, Green Bay

WHEN: Friday, April 9th at 10:30 a.m.

^^

I will still be holding my breath as they announce a ground breaking "soon" or there is still one piece of financing that needs to be secured that is hanging out there or...:nuts:

Big announcement tomorrow at 10:30 on the City Deck concerning the Children's Museum and WaterMark.

That's big news! Say goodbye to the hole in the ground on N. Washington St.


A couple of other things. Piton asks for a recount.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100408/GPG0101/4080656/1978

Piton calls for censuring Zima. Has to do with Zima's remarks Wednesday at a council meeting regarding the city granting Quality Inn & Suites on S. Washington St. relaxed payment terms on a city/Redevelopment Authority loan. Quality apparently has had some difficulty in paying back the loan on time because of the recession and a downturn in the hospitality industry. It owes $400,000 on the $500,000 loan.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100408/GPG0101/4080666/1978
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20103310646

The following banner appears now at the city's Military Avenue reconstruction link. The image looks to me like an idea of what the new street could look like. A big improvement.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/banner.jpg

************

On the announcement tomorrow, Schmitt tells WBAY, "I know it's been a long road and people aren't patient, and I'm most impatient, but we've got to have the money, and tomorrow we announce the final piece is in."

http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=12279844


************

Big announcement tomorrow at 10:30 on the City Deck concerning the Children's Museum and WaterMark.

A long time coming...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q28/westwinder/watermark2.jpg

I am very excited about the announcement tomorrow. I hope they start construction soon!

As for the recount, I think with only 6 votes separating them it is the best thing to do. Just to be sure the results are accurate. I personally would love for Dan to win!

That's big news! Say goodbye to the hole in the ground on N. Washington St.


A couple of other things. Piton asks for a recount.

Why is Downtown Important? ...

Can malls and discount centers take the place of downtowns in the future? The answer is most definitely no.
Though malls and discount centers play important roles in our communities, downtown is much more than a shopping center. It is critical for everyone involved in downtown revitalization to understand the value of downtown.

Here are some good reasons why downtown is important (though they’re not in any particular order):

1. Your central business district is a prominent employment center. Even the smallest downtown employs hundreds of people. Downtown is often the largest employer in a community.

2. As a business center, your downtown plays a major role. It may even represent the largest concentration of businesses in your community. It also serves as an incubator for new businesses—the successes of tomorrow.

3. Most of the businesses in your downtown are independently owned. They support a local family who supports the local schools, etc. Independent businesses keep profits in town. This should be repeated: Independent businesses keep profits in town!

4. Downtown is a reflection of how your community sees itself—a critical factor in business retention and recruitment efforts. When industry begins looking at your community as a possible location, they examine many aspects including the quality of life. Included in quality of life is interest in downtown — is it alive and viable, or does it represent local disinterest and failure? Where does Green Bay stand on this point? Uhhhhggggg....

5. Your downtown represents a significant portion of the community’s tax base. If this district declines, property will decrease in value and subsequently increases the tax burden on other parts of your community.

6. The central business district is an indispensable shopping and service center. Though it may no longer hold the place as your community’s most dominant shopping center, it still includes unique shopping and service opportunities. Attorneys, physicians, accountants, and insurance offices, as well as financial institutions, are often located downtown.

7. Your downtown is the historic core of your community. Many of the buildings are historically significant and help highlight your community’s history. You bet that's true in GB.

8. Downtown represents a vast amount of public and private investment. Imagine the costs to recreate all the public infrastructure and buildings already existing in your central business district. Think of the waste of past dollars spent if downtown is neglected.

9. A central business district is often a major tourist draw. When people travel, they want to see unique places. There isn’t a downtown like yours in the world! Many people really do want to visit downtown, when they visit GB to see a Packer game or something, they often check out the downtown. They want to see something unique, they want to see the history, the small shops, not just the run-of-the-mill big box stores and malls. And what do they find when the come to downtown GB?

10. Downtown is usually a government center. Most likely it is where your city hall, county courthouse, and post office are located. This “one stop” shopping for government services is a notable feature of downtowns across the country. Green Bay has an awesome courthouse. I have said many times how it's unfortunate that so many people go there only when they won't enjoy it--when they're under duress--like serving on jury duty or worse, getting tried or married.

11. And, perhaps, most important, your downtown provides a sense of community and place. As Carol Lifkind, author of Main Street: The Face of Urban America, said “...as Main Street, it was uniquely American, a powerful symbol of shared experiences, of common memory, of the challenge, and the struggle of building a civilization... Main Street was always familiar, always recognizable as the heart and soul of the village, town or city.”

(Edited from an article by Alicia Goehring, Wisconsin Main Street Program, Wisconsin Department of Development)

from wbay.com this morning..

Downtown Green Bay Projects Get Federal Tax Credit
Updated: Apr 08, 2010 10:45 PM CDT
Featured Videos
Green Bay Development Moves Forward
Downtown Projects Get Federal Tax Credit
By Matt Smith

After failed deadlines and no action on prime real estate along Green Bay's downtown riverfront, now the city says the money is in place to move forward.

The official announcement comes Friday when, city leaders say, Milwaukee-based architectural firm Vetter Denk Properties is receiving federal money through the New Markets tax credit.

Green Bay's mayor says it's the final funding piece to fall into place so construction at the old Younkers Department Store site can begin.

For years the empty, window-less department store has sat on the riverfront, conjuring opinions as the ugly stepchild of Green Bay's skyline.

"It looks like a war zone," Josh Steger of Green Bay remarks. "It's definitely a construction site and needs lots of work."

A block away, Jill Watzka feels the effects at Furs of Distinction. The downtown clothing store has seen a lot in more than a decade along Washington Street.

"Right now it's not as good as we had always hoped it would be, but it definitely has improved," the store's business manager says.

Finally it appears her neighbor won't be so ugly any more.

"It's awesome. It's awesome," Mayor Jim Schmitt says.

Mayor Schmitt has invested a lot into downtown development.

Friday, he says, WHEDA and the City will announce the money is finally all here to begin the first phase of construction -- $10 million worth -- which includes the long-anticipated children's museum, restaurant, and building's exterior.

"I know it's been a long road and people aren't patient, and I'm most impatient, but we've got to have the money, and tomorrow we announce the final piece is in," Mayor Schmitt says.

With this final piece of the puzzle, the mayor says this timeline is as real as ever before and construction on the property could begin this summer.

"People are going to say 'It's about time.' Well, look, it's taken a long time, we'll admit that," the mayor says.

While some say they'll have to see it to believe it, just the thought of permanently removing the ugly stepchild is good enough for now.

"We love it down here and we don't want to see it fall apart, so to see this coming is very exciting for us," Watzka says.

From WLUK.

Watermark project ready to go
Updated: Thursday, 08 Apr 2010, 9:56 PM CDT
Published : Thursday, 08 Apr 2010, 9:47 PM CDT

Reporter: Robert Hornacek
GREEN BAY - Downtown Green Bay has seen better days. Take the former Younkers building. The site has sat vacant for several years.

"That's not a good looking property right now," said Green Bay Mayor Jim Schmitt. "It's tough to look at. But on the other hand, we didn't have the money to do what needed to be done."

Schmitt says that has finally changed. The Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority (WHEDA) will announce the final piece of the funding puzzle on Friday. The $10 million project includes a $4 million loan from Calumet County Bank, a $3.5 million loan from the city, and $2.5 million in WHEDA tax credits.

"People are going to say 'Well, it's about time.' Well look: it has taken a long time. We'll admit that," Schmitt said. "But the good news here is we don't need to find any more money."

The project includes the Children's Museum of Green Bay , a restaurant and bar called Hagemeister Park and exterior work on the old Younkers.

"They're trying to put 10 pounds of dirt in a five pound bag," said Alderman Guy Zima. He said the project does not live up to the original vision for the area.

"For better or worse they're getting something done, I guess," Zima said. "It's just that it's not the tax base and it's not the private investment that they promised us."

The executive director of the Children's Museum of Green Bay said she is excited the long wait is almost over.

"It's going to happen now," said Toni Burnett. "We're all sitting back finally going you know, we're going to see the end in the near future."

Now that the financing is in place the developers just have to complete the final paperwork. They expect to break ground in about six weeks. Construction will take less than a year. That means the project should be completed by this time next year.

FOX 11 tried to contact developer John Vetter for this story but we were not able to reach him.

More details of the financing will be announced at a press conference Friday morning in Green Bay.

Here's an undated but recent article on WaterMark from Marketplace magazine. Talks more about the role of Ganther Construction of Oshkosh in the project. Calls WaterMark "the largest adaptive-reuse project in Brown County." Ganther also did the James St. Inn and Lawton Foundry projects in De Pere and the Fox River Mills and Vulcan Hydro Plant projects in Appleton, among others.

www.marketplacemagazine.com/content/441_1.php

:soapbox:

For once I actually agree with Zima. This isn't what was promised. In the end I can get excited for a Children's Museum and another restaurant, but that is all we know now. Sure exterior work will be done to make it look nicer but the remaining floors will be vacant and unfinished until there is interest. And when I say nicer, I am stretching it. I know, I know - I should be a little more understanding that this is Green Bay and grand visions rarely come to life - so I should just take what we get. But 30 years from now (or maybe sooner), I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of people will look at the Watermark and the Flats on the Fox and say "What in the Hell were they thinking?"...

I for one say that the Watermark missed the Mark... I like the first River Center design. Didn't Vetter sell us on the whole front stoop deal to the waterway? Oh well - again I am glad to see something done with that building but I will not get overly excited about the finished project. Again, a second rate project for the downtown.

Just my opinion... Let the :storm: begin.

:soapbox:

For once I actually agree with Zima. This isn't what was promised. In the end I can get excited for a Children's Museum and another restaurant, but that is all we know now. Sure exterior work will be done to make it look nicer but the remaining floors will be vacant and unfinished until there is interest. And when I say nicer, I am stretching it. I know, I know - I should be a little more understanding that this is Green Bay and grand visions rarely come to life - so I should just take what we get. But 30 years from now (or maybe sooner), I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of people will look at the Watermark and the Flats on the Fox and say "What in the Hell were they thinking?"...

I for one say that the Watermark missed the Mark... I like the first River Center design. Didn't Vetter sell us on the whole front stoop deal to the waterway? Oh well - again I am glad to see something done with that building but I will not get overly excited about the finished project. Again, a second rate project for the downtown.

Just my opinion... Let the :storm: begin.


Well the way I see it and understand it, nothing was promised, there was a grand vision presented, thats all. Unfortunately the Green Bay market is fickle to begin with, and this grand vision turned out to be what Green Bay was willing to construct, could you imagine that during the concept part of a project you start with a second rate design and finish third rate. And if there was really that much interest to develop this property why did no one step forward? I will withhold judgment until I see the finished product. One thing for sure is I will be glad to see the hole in the ground vanish.

Well the way I see it and understand it, nothing was promised, there was a grand vision presented, thats all. Unfortunately the Green Bay market is fickle to begin with, and this grand vision turned out to be what Green Bay was willing to construct, could you imagine that during the concept part of a project you start with a second rate design and finish third rate. And if there was really that much interest to develop this property why did no one step forward? I will withhold judgment until I see the finished product. One thing for sure is I will be glad to see the hole in the ground vanish.

I think the developer, lending crisis, as well as the market had some influence on the overall make up of the project. I'm not sure I would agree with "what Green Bay was willing to construct". Vetter backed down when he had Astor up over 60% pre sales. Why? Couldn't secure funding? Who knows. There was also some dealing behind the scenes on the Lofts on the River project that aren't totally public knowledge as well where it wasn't funded by him but needed help from the City. The City and Federal Tax Credits paid for the majority of the construction of the Flats on the Fox. This is basically going to be the same for the Watermark. Maybe he isn't the right developer for these kind of projects here... I know other developers have the same issue - but Vetter has sucked as much as he can from the City. Cool beans for him and were left holding the bag of shit at our doorstep.:ohno:

I think the developer, lending crisis, as well as the market had some influence on the overall make up of the project. I'm not sure I would agree with "what Green Bay was willing to construct". Vetter backed down when he had Astor up over 60% pre sales. Why? Couldn't secure funding? Who knows. There was also some dealing behind the scenes on the Lofts on the River project that aren't totally public knowledge as well where it wasn't funded by him but needed help from the City. The City and Federal Tax Credits paid for the majority of the construction of the Flats on the Fox. This is basically going to be the same for the Watermark. Maybe he isn't the right developer for these kind of projects here... I know other developers have the same issue - but Vetter has sucked as much as he can from the City. Cool beans for him and were left holding the bag of shit at our doorstep.:ohno:

Well whatever the case, people are not lined up knocking down vetters door to move downtown, and as far as I know, there are no other developers that seem interested. I cannot imagine anyone willing to accept an enormous amount of risk in an area that is still declining. Plus isn't that the purpose of the tax credits, to reduce risk?? And I wish I could provide an answer to the question as to vetter being the "right developer for these kind of projects here". I still have the Juza add from the Press Gazette dated February 6, 2005 in my office, it would have been great to see that project constructed, if he could have pulled it off.

Here are the first news reports I'm seeing on-line from today's press conference. I wouldn't be surprised if some of you were there. One report quotes the executive director of WHEDA as saying it's his understanding that 30% "of this facility" has signed leases and an additional 17% is committed. Construction to start in 8-10 weeks.

From WBAY.

Financing Secured for Green Bay's Downtown Watermark
Updated: Apr 09, 2010 2:55 PM

Funding Set for Green Bay's Watermark

The years of waiting to develop a key downtown Green Bay property are apparently over.

At a news conference late Friday morning, officials announced financing is secured to get started on the redevelopment of the former Younkers Department Store site.

Ten million dollars in new state tax credits will allow work to start in the next ten weeks on the Watermark River Center development along the Fox River.

It includes office and retail space and a children's museum.

"Not only does this project serve a great mission by providing the children of Northeast Wisconsin with access to education and culture through the state-of-the-art children's museum, but we are also renovating downtown waterfront in a meaningful way," said Antonio Riley of the Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority (WHEDA).

Officials say most immediately the Watermark project will create 100 construction jobs as well as 19 full-time and 44 part-time jobs.

They say Watermark has the potential for 200 full-time jobs once the office and retail space is in use.

"I am told that we have 47 percent commitment already on the leasing of this facility and that 30 percent of that already has signed leases. Now, that is before the shovel goes into the ground," Riley noted.

"I can't convey to you just how wonderful this is going to be for not just the downtown but for the greater Green Bay community," Mayor Jim Schmitt said.


From WTAQ.

A major downtown Green Bay redevelopment project gets the green light for construction. WaterMark and River Center have been stalled while the city and developer were trying to secure financing, but the wait is over.

"We always felt we had the right development project and the right uses with the Childrens' Museum, Hagermeister Park, with some residential and some office," Green Bay Mayor Jim Schmitt said. "We knew the use was proper, just the financing was a challenge."

WHEDA Executive Director Antonio Riley says ten million dollars from the Wisconsin Community Development Legacy Fund will get the projects going.

"This project is expected to create some 19 full-time jobs, 44 part-time jobs, and potentially 200 additional jobs when the WaterMark office and retail space is up and running," Riley said.

The Mayor says construction will begin in eight to 10 weeks. It's expected to be completed some time next Spring.

Here's the press release from WHEDA.

FINAL FINANCING PIECE SECURES EXPANSION OF GREEN BAY’S WATERFRONT AREA
Vetter Denk to use $10 million allocation from WCDLF to create over 200 permanent and temporary jobs at the WaterMark and River Center

Green Bay – Vetter Denk, a Milwaukee‐based architecture and development firm facilitating a major construction and redevelopment project for downtown Green Bay’s waterfront area, is utilizing a federal program to continue economic development efforts with help from the Wisconsin Community Development Legacy Fund (WCDLF), The City of Green Bay and Calumet County Bank.

The Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority (WHEDA) announced today that, through WCDLF, it is making a $10 million federal New Markets Tax Credit allocation to Vetter Denk to begin work on a project that will feature the construction of River Center, a commercial building that will accommodate the new 15,000 square foot Children’s Museum of Green Bay, and the rehabilitation of a six‐story warehouse into mixed‐use commercial space called WaterMark.

“Today is a very proud moment for all parties involved in the approval of this historic deal, as it marks one of the largest adaptive re‐use projects ever to be undertaken in Brown County. Not only does this project serve a great mission – providing the children of northeast Wisconsin with access to education and culture through a state‐of‐the‐art museum – but we are renovating the downtown waterfront in a meaningful way, contributing to the economic viability in this area,” said WHEDA Executive Director Antonio Riley.

The construction and subsequent operations of this project is expected to create 19 full‐time jobs and 44 part‐time jobs, with a potential for 200 additional jobs when the WaterMark office and retail space is up and running. During the construction process, it’s also estimated that over 100 temporary jobs will be created.

“This project will bring us another step closer to realizing our vision of a revitalized downtown waterfront area,” said Green Bay Mayor Jim Schmitt. “River Center and WaterMark will contribute attractive and economically vital developments to this community – along with high‐paying, family supporting jobs. This area has made great progress in recent years, and we’re excited to see another piece of our city’s downtown coming together.”

Vetter Denk will use the New Markets Tax Credit structure to finance a construction loan for the River Center, which will contain ground level commercial space to accommodate the re‐opening of the Children’s Museum, a 10,000 square foot family‐style restaurant, Hagermeister Park, along with a 165‐stall, multi‐level parking structure. The City of Green Bay and Calumet County Bank will provide additional financing in conjunction with the tax credit program.

The tax credits will also finance the completion of the WaterMark building, which is an adaptive re‐use of the former Younkers department store property. The six‐story building will consist of first floor retail space and three levels of Class A office space. The building’s top two floors will be converted into warehouse‐style lofts. Already, 30% of the building is leased up.

“Calumet County Bank, along with a group of other independent community banks, is proud to be part of a project that will not only renovate and bring life to the downtown Green Bay area, but is also a part in creating employment opportunities,” said Calumet County Bank Vice President Paul Meier. “As a community bank we are honored to play an important role in such a large project.

The Childrenʹs Museum has several proposed new exhibits including a water play area, an interactive 25‐foot oak tree, a 20‐foot fishing boat, a fire safety house and fire truck, an arts and crafts area, an ice cream parlor, and a miniature town. The museum began operations at Ashwaubenon’s Bay Park Square Mall in 1992, before it moved to Washington Commons in 1998. In 2006, the museum closed its Washington Commons site while work began on its new location.

The River Center and WaterMark developments will compliment the adjacent four‐block City Deck river walk, a quarter‐mile boardwalk connecting the Walnut Street Bridge and the Ray Nitschke Bridge on Main Street, and Flats on the Fox Apartments. WHEDA allocated over $16 million in Low Income Housing Tax Credits and financing towards the 64‐unit apartment complex, which opened in fall 2008.

While in town, Riley also held a housing roundtable discussion with area lenders, Realtors and home builders to provide participants with an update on WHEDA’s recent return to lending. WHEDA re‐entered the affordable home loan market on March 1st with a new product called the WHEDA Fannie Mae Advantage.

The New Markets Tax Credit Program was originated by Congress in 2000 as a way to promote economic development in low‐income urban and rural communities. The program provides tax incentives to investors who make equity investments in rural and urban low‐income communities.

“The New Markets allocation was the final piece of financing needed to get this project off the ground, so we’re pleased that through our partnership with WCDLF we were able to assume a key role in funding this deal,” said Riley.

WCDLF is a Community Development Entity responsible for overseeing statewide distribution of federal New Markets Tax Credits. To date, WCDLF, comprised of WHEDA, Impact Seven and Legacy Bancorp, has allocated over $190 million in credits to 23 projects across Wisconsin, creating and retaining over 5,500 jobs. WHEDA and Legacy Bancorp formed WCDLF in 2004 to successfully obtain the federal tax credits.

About WHEDA:
WHEDA is an independent state authority that works with lenders to provide low‐cost financing for housing and small business development in Wisconsin. For more information about the New Markets Tax Credit Program, call 1-800-334-6873.

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GB4Life I have to agree,What Vetter sold to the city to get the project and what he has done and will do is nothing short then fraud by the man. What he has put up are ugly buildings none of the excitement he promised has materilzed and it is clear this is going to be one more black mark on Green Bays downtown history. Don't think it is going to take 30 years for people to stand back and what in the hell they were doing. BTW wasn't one of his original threats by Vetter was Green Bay had to build city deck in order for him to follow through with all of his promises? Vetter was a mistake but it's to late now the damage has been done.

The articles had no mention of the Astor Place Condos. Is this now officially dead or waiting for more financing approval? The Vetter Denk web site has pulled the page describing this project. Interesting? All these years and delays and financing problems and all it means is to finish the Younkers building and 19 new jobs.

Re. Watermark. I'm suprised at how much disappointment there is. I find it amazing they have found a way to get this project moving in this economy. I don't think it is all that different than what was originally planned. Mixed use, a Children's Museum, and a restaurant/bar on the ground floor. I think maybe the hotel component was dropped. Otherwise, It looks quite similar to what was originally proposed.

Vetter Denk will now have completed three of his four projects in Green Bay. The lofts, The Flats, and now Watermark.

If reality were Sim City and we were given an unlimited budget, sure, we'd build something grander at the Younkers site.

In a free market, we have to accept what the demand dictates. Government can sweeten the pot (e.g., TIF, grants, etc.) but it is up to entrepreneurs and businesses to take the risks based on the perceived demand.

As long as the concept is not detrimental to the character and function of downtown, let's get the project done -- smaller scale as it might be -- and see if its success can generate more excitement and additional projects. I guess I've downsized my hopes for a tallish, great downtown to a nice, livable, functional downtown.

Git 'er done and go from there!

Re. Watermark. I'm surprised at how much disappointment there is. I find it amazing they have found a way to get this project moving in this economy. I don't think it is all that different than what was originally planned. Mixed use, a Children's Museum, and a restaurant/bar on the ground floor. I think maybe the hotel component was dropped. Otherwise, It looks quite similar to what was originally proposed.

Vetter Denk will now have completed three of his four projects in Green Bay. The lofts, The Flats, and now Watermark.

Well said!! Remember this paragraph from Puant's April Fool's Day story about the finale of the TV series "Survivor" being filmed in Green Bay and one of the challenges for its contestants? "Developing a real estate project in the downtown. This will be the most significant challenge in series history, despite players being fronted $50 million in capital by the TV network. Contestants will be forced to deal with contaminant cleanup, poor foundations, limited market demand, city politics, and the overwhelming pessimism of the overall community." (Emphasis mine.) Unfortunately, I've noticed, that applies to this board sometimes too. I'm sure some are keeping any potential enthusiasm over WaterMark in check until they see construction start because of what happened with Astor Place and the delay in getting WM going. But that was then and this is now. Stuff happens — and we just went through a deep recession. All signs now are this project is full steam ahead.

The articles had no mention of the Astor Place Condos. Is this now officially dead or waiting for more financing approval? The Vetter Denk web site has pulled the page describing this project.

My understanding watching from the sidelines is that Astor Place is dead. Maybe it would have happened had it been built before the recession hit. Looks to me like the downtown emphasis now is on getting WaterMark under way and then see what happens. Who knows, maybe AP could come back eventually in a second life as a smaller project.

Like Bay2Bay said above, why is there so much disappointment about this announcement? I don't understand. What were you expecting? Yes, it has taken a while but the economy has been terrible, it's great that they were able to get this done period. It's turning a blemish in downtown to an instant attraction. Sure it's not a glistening 25 story glass skyscraper, but that's not what needs to be there. What we will be getting is a modern building nestled on the river which will change the whole feel of Washington's north end. With Watermark soon to be underway, pressure is now on the mall site. All of this is progress.

I will agree that it wasn't what Vetter promised originally. But, and this is a big deal in my mind, is that there will no longer be a bombed out building along one of the most valuable pieces of the Green Bay riverfront. This can only have good implications as to the conception of the general population, as well as outside developers and potential business partners.

After seeing that the final steps of the stage one city deck were incorporating the existing structure of the former Younkers building, I assumed the project was going to go through. So to a degree, I saw this coming. Either way, I'm looking forward to another piece of the puzzle along Washington St.


Many conservatives prefer the Benefit Principle because they feel it is unfair for the rich to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes, and that it reduces the incentive to work. Accepting this, conservatives should embrace fees more than taxes.

Incidentally, the majority of the people who vote for the branded conservative party in the US are not rich and therefore would be hurt by the flat tax rate policies that most conservative groups wish to have in the US. It's a bit ironic in my opinion.

Assuming it goes forward (though things look really positive, I'm not getting too excited until I see construction), I think it's going to be a really nice addition, particularly from the river side. That warehouse is the only connection between the river-front's past and future. I've always liked that building, and I think once it's cleaned up and active it will be nice. I don't have a good feel for how the Washington St. side will look. It's largely a parking ramp, but that's a necessity. I think it could end up nice, and I doubt it will be a disaster. The almost irrefutable thing is that the Children's Museum will be a wonderful addition downtown, and it seems the restaurant will fit into the niche that people complain (rightly or wrongly) that the downtown lacks. On balance I can't see how the Watermark won't be a huge benefit to the downtown.

Regarding the death of Astor Place. I have a suspicion that if we all knew then what we know now, Astor Place or something similar could have been done. The thing is that even though 60%+ of the units were reserved, A) that was less than 60% of the value as the most expensive units weren't reserved, and B) substantial blocks of units were reserved by real estate speculators who were taking advantage of lower presale prices in hopes of making a large profit selling the units post-construction. That speculation simple isn't happening anywhere (except perhaps on foreclosed houses) anymore. That's probably good for the general economy, but it's bad for selling condo towers. This isn't unique to John Vetter or Green Bay, and it's also part of why Watermark isn't the same as originally proposed.

As for Vetter himself, I've been critical at times and I think there's room to be so on some things. At the same time, much of the criticism seems to basically be some form of "the buildings are not good enough for such valuable space." I don't think the buildings are that bad, but that's a matter of taste. The larger point is that before Vetter came along, nobody was arguing about the quality of buildings along the riverfront because nobody wanted to be there! Where Riverfront Lofts are was the ass-end of the Washington Street buildings, or before that an ugly, dilapidated ramp that blocked off the river-front. Younkers was a hulking, vacant building that really had negative value to developers because something had to be done with the mess. Instead of an awesome CityDeck there was a haphazard mish-mash of not much. The only reason we're arguing about this is because Vetter came up with the plan for what's now the CityDeck, and brought StoSS here to design it. Without that NOBODY would care what faces the river there (except for a few geeks like us).

The timelines have been a joke. The projects aren't as grand as originally proposed. The buildings aren't to everyone's taste. But where there was nothing (or arguably, worse than nothing) there is or will be a Children's Museum, a causal-dining restaurant, a couple of hundred residents, and a CityDeck where events can take place, people want to be, and that makes people CARE what things look like along the river. He's not the greatest developer in the world, but he's hung in there and NO OTHER developer has even come close to doing as significant of developments in the downtown and improving the condition of the downtown as much.


Incidentally, the majority of the people who vote for the branded conservative party in the US are not rich and therefore would be hurt by the flat tax rate policies that most conservative groups wish to have in the US. It's a bit ironic in my opinion.

The argument that the conservatives have successfully made is that the tax structure they prefer is in people's interest because it aids economic growth and job creation/retention. Agree with that or not, the votes to which you refer don't see it as that they are voting against their self-interest.

I really am pleased that the project is going to be completed, I am one of those who think right now the current buildings there are lacking but maybe once all are completed they will blend in better. Did anyone really think he was going to build a 17 story tower, I just don't see that the of building being in Green Bays Skyline for a long time, just not the demand for it here. Really looking forward to having the children's museum opening and taking the grand kids. Is the restaurant going to be local or a national chain, sort of hoping chain and finally the flat tax I am all for it because then finally the liberals in this country will start to pay their "fair share". :)

Its so great to finally hear some potential for construction on the Watermark and museum.

Yea the mall is next...Has anyone heard anything new on the Grand Union? That should also be next.

Its so great to finally hear some potential for construction on the Watermark and museum.

Yea the mall is next...Has anyone heard anything new on the Grand Union? That should also be next.

I had heard that the Theatre Board had imposed a April 15th deadline to the developer (broker looks to be Steve Seidl) to have tenants locked up and to move forward. I remember reading a quote awhile back by Paul Jadin basically saying that if this building is going to happen, it should be able to by April 15th otherwise there is no need to prolong it. I know that several had mentioned at the last SSC get together that this sounded positive and that there was a yet unamed investor but I have not seen anything else public on this. They are listed on Loopnet but don't know if they have anything leased. Has anyone else heard anything?

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16385651/101-S-Washington-St-Green-Bay-WI/

I had heard that the Theatre Board had imposed a April 15th deadline to the developer (broker looks to be Steve Seidl) to have tenants locked up and to move forward. I remember reading a quote awhile back by Paul Jadin basically saying that if this building is going to happen, it should be able to by April 15th otherwise there is no need to prolong it. I know that several had mentioned at the last SSC get together that this sounded positive and that there was a yet unamed investor but I have not seen anything else public on this. They are listed on Loopnet but don't know if they have anything leased. Has anyone else heard anything?

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/16385651/101-S-Washington-St-Green-Bay-WI/

I wonder if the so-called Meyer Theatre Professional Building (Grand Union) potentially could be the headquarters building for Schreiber Foods if the company is considering a new downtown office location.


Below are photographs past and present of Calumet County Bank, headquartered in Brillion, the commercial lender for WaterMark. In its understated coverage Saturday of the WHEDA announcement, the Press-Gazette said officials called Calumet's decision to remain with the WaterMark project "the key element to keeping it alive." I don't know that Vetter Denk has done business with Calumet before. I've been told by someone with some inside familiarity with WaterMark that Calumet is a bank that Ganther Construction of Oshkosh does business with. Presumably, Ganther — which has done other adaptive reuse projects in the area — will be the principal contractor on WaterMark. . . . Just some background info.

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Word on the street is that Ganther has been the prime mover in getting the financing through. They've already sunk money of their own into the project so every moment that they're not building they are losing money.

Is the restaurant going to be local or a national chain, sort of hoping chain...

The restaurant, Hegemeister Park (spelling's probably wrong) isn't a chain. The owners are the people who either own or run The Bar, but this isn't going to be the same as The Bar. It's supposed to be a family-oriented restaurant. Then again, Five-Six was supposed to be a restaurant and not a bar. But these guys have a lot of experience running restaurants so I take them at their word that it will be family friendly. Not a chain, but I'd bet with experienced ownership it will work out okay.

I noticed Prestige Plaza being torn down on Lombardi day - making room for the towers? :)

No I believe a qwik trip is going in.

No I believe a qwik trip is going in.

:lol::lol::ohno::ohno::wallbash::wallbash::cripes::cripes:

Are you kidding me? This site went from having a grand plan and vision of twin luxury condos to..... a Quik Trip? Niiiicccceee...

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/phatty_013/PrestigeTowers.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/QuickTrip.jpg

But it will have two of the Walk of Honor stautes on the property, Honor and Valor. (Yippiee) Green Bay is not equpied to build anything like the Prestige Towers or even Vetters vision downtown, there is not enough of a city here to support such grand ideas, heck they can't even fill something as small as the office building next to the Loft how do they expect to fill 15, 16, 17 story towers, best to keep it simpler in this town a skyline is a long time off, we may actually get rail before a real skyline.

:lol::lol::ohno::ohno::wallbash::wallbash::cripes::cripes:

Are you kidding me? This site went from having a grand plan and vision of twin luxury condos to..... a Quik Trip? Niiiiccccee

Yep a Quik trip is what I heard as well.

FYI. Although some individual votes changed, Piton still loses by six votes in the City Council recount.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2010100412038

By the way, the name Midwest Airlines is being dropped and it will be part of Frontier Airlines . . . . Yes, it's a Kwik Trip. Developer Paul Kaczrowski is upset with Green Bay, has moved or is moving his offices to Howard and says he's selling his city properties. This was one of his parcels.

Those towers are not grand, they look like a tall senior housing project. Qwik-Trip isn't any good either though.

Those towers are not grand, they look like a tall senior housing project. Qwik-Trip isn't any good either though.

TampaMike doesn't realize how desperate we are in Green Bay! :crazy2:

TampaMike doesn't realize how desperate we are in Green Bay!

and how GRAND those towers, or any tower that height IS for GB.

I never thougt the buildings looked awesome, my point was only that the plan for that location went from a relatively large condo development all the way down to a gas station.

Below are photographs of two major intersections in downtown Green Bay years ago.

Historically, I think Walnut and Washington — the smaller photo in the rain — was the most prominent intersection. Buildings here included the eight-story (nine if you count the smaller penthouse on top) Bellin Building and the six-story Minahan Building. (In later years it was known as the Minahan-McCormick Building.) The Minahan was demolished on March 25, 1984, for the widening of E. Walnut Street at that point — in conjunction with construction of the new Walnut Street Bridge — and for a parking lot. You can see the Minahan Building in my Tower Park icon, looking north on Washington St.

Green Bay's second most prominent downtown intersection historically, I think, was Main and Washington (the larger photo), located then about a half-block south of where the two streets intersect today. This was the gateway intersection to the Main Street business district traveling east. One of the buildings here included the five-story Beaumont Hotel, demolished in the 1960s for the massive GREGBY (Greater Green Bay) downtown urban renewal project. (You can see part of the Beaumont's electric sign in the upper left corner of the intersection photo.) And just a half block south of Main/Washington was the original four-story H.C. Prange Co. department store building. That's the site (the hole in the ground) where the new River Center/Children's Museum/Hagemeister Park restaurant/parking ramp structure(s) will go.

Walnut/Washington photo: looking north on Washington toward Prange's.
Main/Washington photo: looking southeast (Washington on the right, Main on the left).


Oops. I just realized the Walnut/Washington photo is actually CHERRY and Washington. Oh well.



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I too am glad to see the projects along the riverfront between Pine and Washington moving forward, albeit slowly.

I like what they're doing with the old "tan" brick building. This is a challenging project but I think that Vetter's design is pretty good all things considered. I may not always agree with his architectural style but this building could turn out all right. I like that he's re-using a building that's been part of Green Bay's skyline for a long time.

Vetter's "Riverfront Lofts" aren't exactly my cup of tea from an outside perspective, but I understand that from the inside they are pretty nice, and I also know that they used the foundation of the old parking ramp which had something to do with the design...I'm cool with that.

The other apartment building that Vetter built also re-used some of the old Younkers building, which I thought was cool. I can't say I really like the design, it's just weird to me but I guess that's just a matter of taste. It does have some of what I'd consider good design elements like the streetfront windows and the balconies. When it was built, I had been thinking, OK, well, this building isn't great but it will be soon sandwiched between other cooler developments, so, no big deal (of course, the "bread" of this sandwich still hasn't been completed).

But all in all, I don't want to be too overly critical, because frankly I don't have any better ideas for how these sites could have been developed. At least, not any realistic ideas.

My biggest criticism is perhaps the design of the Children's Museum. As Tower Park mentioned above, this corner has traditionally been one of the most prominent in the downtown and I'd like to see that restored to some degree. I'd like to see something classier here. I'm afraid the Children's Museum will really be jsut another parking ramp, primarily. While I'm 210% in favor of the Children's Museum, I'm afraid the design will come off as a thinly-veiled, cheap-looking parking ramp that happens to house a museum. Now, I understand that this parking is an absolute necessity in order to make the children's museum a success. So here again, I can't say I have any realistic ideas that are better. I think the problem with our city design in general is more systemic; I mean, car storage is too important in our society, and I think this is rather unfortunate because car storage is "dead space" and just isn't really what I think a downtown is or should be all about. But, again, that's a larger issue in our general society, not something I expect the Children's Museum to make a stand against.

So. Onward. As for cooler designs, I'm holding out hope for the corner of Walnut & Washington, which Tower Park pointed out was really THE core of the downtown. I really like the proposed design of the Meyer Theater office building add-on. And there's still "Site 4" too. This corner really could turn out to be, once again, the city's true "core".

TampaMike doesn't realize how desperate we are in Green Bay! :crazy2:
Oh trust me, we're as desperate at you guys down here in Tampa for any construction. But if that was proposed in Tampa, I would definitely ask for a better design.

Last decade, Austin Straubel pulled away from the Outagamie County airport in passenger totals. But beginning in 2009, that trend reversed itself and has continued through the first quarter of this year. Boardings are down 1.8 percent at Straubel year to date compared to last year and up 4.15 percent at Outagamie. Green Bay's numbers, though, should improve with the addition of flights this month to Denver via Frontier Airlines and to Cleveland next month via Continental Airlines.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100418/GPG03/4180354/1247/gpg03/Austin-Straubel-looks-to-reverse-passenger-decline

A quick-service restaurant will be added to each of the two wings of Austin Straubel behind the security checkpoints. The restaurants will be in operation from around 5 a.m. to 11 p.m., from the first flight in the morning to the last flight at night. The current restaurant in the terminal will be converted into a sports bar.

Same link, smaller article to the right.

Six more ships - including one from Germany and another from the Netherlands - have been added to the Tall Ship Festival, bringing the total to 12 ships.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100418/GPG0101/4180367/1978

The closure of Oneida St. at 172 to end in July. Construction on the multi-lane roundabout (horrors!) on Ashland Ave. at Eighth St. in De Pere to begin in May. That will eliminate the dangerous, almost head-on cross-traffic intersection there now. Potts Ave. in Ashwaubenon next to the new Packer practice field to be upgraded with wider sidewalks, concrete pavement and underground wires. That's by Tom, Dick & Harry's, an area, seems to me, ripe for redevelopment down the road.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100418/GPG0101/4180362/1978


I like what they're doing with the old "tan" brick building. This is a challenging project but I think that Vetter's design is pretty good all things considered. I may not always agree with his architectural style but this building could turn out all right. I like that he's re-using a building that's been part of Green Bay's skyline for a long time.

Yes, WaterMark looks to be a handsome exterior rehab. As for its new buildings, Vetter Denk's preference in design may be what local architectural expert Dan Moore might call Post-International Style. When it worked, International was an exciting style. When it didn't, building exteriors could seem boxy and cold.

Yes, WaterMark looks to be a handsome exterior rehab. As for its new buildings, Vetter Denk's preference in design may be what local architectural expert Dan Moore might call Post-International Style. When it worked, International was an exciting style. When it didn't, building exteriors could seem boxy and cold.

:banana:

I do think the warehouse part's going to look good, and I think the muesum could go either way. I was just down there today and while looking at Riverfront Lofts it dawned on me that I like that building a lot better from the CityDeck than I do from across the river. Being able to see the wood underneath the balconies and such adds some color and a natural element.

Also, progress on the upland portion of the CityDeck in front of the Watermark continues to progress nicely. Does anyone know when that work should be completed?

Overheard at work today...

The Baylake Bank building tenets have been notified that the city will be tearing down the mall this summer !!!

:) :banana:

Wow, that would be great news... Maybe all GB needed was a little recession to get some of these projects moving. The combination of Watermark and the mall coming down along with the CityDeck could be the spark that is needed. Of course, I'll believe the mall coming down when I see it.

Word on the street is that the Press Conference for the Watermark was a little premature. It still isn't a done deal by any means. Now it still looks like it will happen, but that is typical of Green Bay - hyping a project before all i's are dotted and t's are crossed. Only to watch it fall apart.

Since you're a known critic of WaterMark and Vetter Denk, can you elaborate on "word on the street" and "a little premature?" You also say "it still looks like it will happen" but then suggest things could "fall apart." At the press announcement, they said they anticipated it would take 8-10 weeks for construction to start.

Since you're a known critic of WaterMark and Vetter Denk, can you elaborate on "word on the street" and "a little premature?" You also say "it still looks like it will happen" but then suggest things could "fall apart." At the press announcement, they said they anticipated it would take 8-10 weeks for construction to start.

I am not a critic of Vetter Denk. I am a critic of empty promises and second class buildings. I love Green Bay, but I am sick of it not living up to its potential because inside and outside people think we don't or can't deserve 1st class projects.

Yes, I think the Watermark project is better than what is there now, but not better than what was originally proposed. And when I say that, I mean the design and the grand entrance to the City Deck. The uses are pretty much the same, the architecture is what I am a critic of.

As far as my source. They will remain nameless, but I can guarantee you it is someone with first hand knowledge. The deal was... is yes they held the news conference prematurely. As you know someone saying 8 to 10 weeks until constructions doesn't mean it is going to happen. Things will probably still work out, but not all guarantees are in place. Similar to final approvals for the Moderne in Milwaukee. This is complicated stuff and any magnitude of things could still happen that would derail this. In the past the City hypes up a project and it fails to materialize instead of hyping a project when they know it is going to happen.

I am not a critic of Vetter Denk. I am a critic of empty promises and second class buildings. I love Green Bay, but I am sick of it not living up to its potential because inside and outside people think we don't or can't deserve 1st class projects.

Yes, I think the Watermark project is better than what is there now, but not better than what was originally proposed. And when I say that, I mean the design and the grand entrance to the City Deck. The uses are pretty much the same, the architecture is what I am a critic of.

As far as my source. They will remain nameless, but I can guarantee you it is someone with first hand knowledge. The deal was... is yes they held the news conference prematurely. As you know someone saying 8 to 10 weeks until constructions doesn't mean it is going to happen. Things will probably still work out, but not all guarantees are in place. Similar to final approvals for the Moderne in Milwaukee. This is complicated stuff and any magnitude of things could still happen that would derail this. In the past the City hypes up a project and it fails to materialize instead of hyping a project when they know it is going to happen.

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't asking for the names of sources, just some more elaboration if possible.

Overheard at work today...

SHhhhh you didn't hear this from me... :) The Baylake Bank building tenets have been notified that the city will be tearing down the mall this summer !!!

:) :banana:

Great to hear if true!


The city has signed a nearly $2 million contract with an Orlando, FL-area amusement-ride consultant to oversee design and construction of the Zippin Pippin. The company already has helped Green Bay obtain the mechanical framework of the "Thunder Eagle" — another wooden roller coaster from Tennessee now defunct — to help build the Zippin. Construction at Bay Beach starts this summer. Total project cost around $3 million, paper says.

www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100420/GPG0101/4200538/1978

The county for some time has been thinking of the possibility of moving the Sheriff's Department from the Brown County Law Enforcement Center on Courthouse Square to a suburban location like the former S&L Motors car dealership off 172 in Bellevue. The Center (present and past images below) was built as a post office and federal-court building in the early 1900s before being taken over by the county and renamed the Courthouse Annex. In the 1980s, then-County Executive Don Holloway wanted to raze the building to expand the County Jail. But in a referendum (I think it was an advisory referendum), Brown County voters voted to keep the building, and it later was renovated into the Law Enforcement Center. The Sheriff's and District Attorney's offices are located there. If the Sheriff should eventually relocate, I haven't heard any word of what the county would do with the current building. Perhaps the District Attorney could use some of the Law Enforcement Center's space for expansion. The DA's caseload has grown much.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100420/GPG0101/4200536/1978


http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/l__frontpage_f.jpg

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/walnst.jpg

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/USPostOffice-FederalBuildingpostcar.jpg

There was a public meeting this morning at the Meyer Theatre on plans to connect the Fox River and East River trails, from Monroe Avenue at the bridge over the East River to East High School/Joannes Park. Another meeting will be held April 28 at the Art Garage. There was a nice Press-Gazette graphic in its print edition today showing the proposed connection between the two trails, but I didn't find the map in the paper's on-line version.

Community Leaders Run with Idea for Connecting Fox, East River Trails


BY SCOTT WILLIAMS • SWILLIAMS@GREENBAYPRESSGAZETTE.COM • APRIL 20, 2010


A project that has been 10 years in the making — linking Green Bay's two main recreational trails — is about to get pushed forward.

A coalition of government, business and neighborhood leaders is preparing to unveil a blueprint to connect the Fox River Trail with the East River Trail.

The delicate project could involve demolishing buildings and overcoming other physical obstacles in areas of downtown Green Bay.

Advocates are voicing optimism while also acknowledging the formidable task ahead.

"It's the last link in this trail system for a reason," said Crystal Osman, program manager for Olde Main Street Inc., one of the business groups backing the project.

The coalition plans to present its strategy during a public Good Morning Downtown meeting at 8 a.m. today at the Meyer Theatre. Green Bay city officials will follow with another public discussion at 7 p.m. April 28 at the Art Garage, 1400 Cedar St.

The East River Trail extends from downtown Green Bay to Bellevue, while the Fox River Trail extends all the way to Wrightstown. Together, the two trails cover an estimated 30 miles.

City planner Nic Sparacio said linking the two paths would improve neighborhood access, connect businesses to customers and open up more recreational opportunities for bikers, hikers and joggers.

Although it has been discussed since at least the late 1990s, Sparacio said, the project has not been completed earlier because of the difficulty acquiring real estate. The connector will have to extend about 1 mile, generally from Joannes Park to Monroe Avenue.

"It's not a new idea," Sparacio said. "It's been out there for a while."

Discussions aimed at identifying a strategy began about 18 months ago among representatives from the city, county, businesses and neighborhoods.

No cost projections have been released yet, but advocates hope to obtain state or federal grants to minimize local taxpayer impact.

Four neighborhood associations affected by the project have agreed to support the connector, officials said.

Steve Boehlen, president of the Three Corners Neighborhood Association, said residents and merchants in his area are excited about the possibility for enhancing the East River itself. With an extended recreational path running alongside, the river could attract more boat traffic or other beautification efforts, Boehlen said.

He likened the possibilities to river walks in Milwaukee or San Antonio, Texas.

"It would be a little, unique niche," he said.

Building the final link would be completed in two phases, Osman said. The first phase would take three to five years.

She declined to disclose more details before the unveiling of the plan today, but she said her coalition is optimistic that the project is doable.

"It's not going to be done tomorrow," she said. "But it's not going to take 20 years."

http://downtowngreenbay.com/sites/default/files/ERT%20Brochure%20Final.pdf
http://downtowngreenbay.com/sites/default/files/Phase%20I%20Timeline.jpg
http://downtowngreenbay.com/sites/default/files/Connections_011810_lowres.pdf

As a guy who's "out of the loop", I appreciate "the scoop" from all 'y'all. Thanks.

Word on the street is that the Press Conference for the Watermark was a little premature. It still isn't a done deal by any means. Now it still looks like it will happen, but that is typical of Green Bay - hyping a project before all i's are dotted and t's are crossed. Only to watch it fall apart.I think it will be a bigger shock if they actuallly build it, instead of if it does not get built. Hope it does but we have been down this road before and failure would not be the surprise.

Heard another thing today.... :)

Seems I have been in the right place a couple times this week... LOL

Schreiber purchasing department will be moving into the Baylake Bank in the next few months as the build out of the space is completed. They will be in the storefront facing Adams street.

I am guessing that this is short term if the consolidation rumor is true. But their time line might be a bit longer than we all originally hoped if they are willing to move and move again at some point.

:nuts:

Today I got a chance to talk to the former agent who has worked w/ John Vetter on Astor Place. This person was really not happy with how he did business. She was asked by Vetter to reach a goal of $7M in pre-sales and she did reach $10M! She said the the most expensive and least expensive condos were easier to sell, but not the mid range ones. Basically empty promises is what he is good at.

The City Council yesterday tabled (meaning nothing will happen) the proposal to censure Guy Zima for remarks he made at its last meeting. This was the first meeting of the new Council since the elections earlier this month. The Council voted 7-5 (after seven deadlocked ballots) to make Ald. Thomas DeWane its new president, replacing Ald. Chris Wery.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100421/GPG0101/4210667/1978

Zima was re-elected yesterday 14-9-3 to his second consecutive term as chair of the Brown County Board. He says one item he plans to focus on will be the issue of whether and where to relocate the Sheriff's Department. For the record — unless the current location is proven to be inadequate or there are other extenuating circumstances — I think the Sheriff's Department should remain in the Law Enforcement Center, near the District Attorney's offices, the Sophie Beaumont Building and the Courthouse. In my opinion, the County made a mistake when it relocated the County Jail to the northeast side of Green Bay. The jail, I think, should have stayed downtown (like, for example, Appleton did), near the sheriff, DA, social services and courts. Back in the '80s, I opposed tearing down the LEC for jail expansion, partially because I was against razing a historic building but also because I didn't think Courthouse Square and a prime downtown intersection were a good location for jail expansion. Other sites downtown nearby could have been pursued.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100421/GPG0101/4210665/1978

ACE Marine gets contract — through Marinette Marine — to build 15 more Coast Guard boats in Green Bay.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/marinette-marine-gets-us-coast-guard-contract

I found some cool pictures I took 10 years ago at Titletown Brewing Company which I uploaded to Facebook.

Several of them were taken from the clock tower looking at the very different skyline of Green Bay.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3858063&l=18b242f359&id=570099341

Wow, picture #12....how sad! The best use of the river was for parking lots and a giant parking ramp! I forgot how how it was...during that time, I didn't go downtown much because I was too old for hanging out at the mall, and too young for bars.
Hi all, by the way, I'm a longtime lurker, and very rare poster to this thread. I follow this because I'm always looking for the latest development news/rumors/info. Thanks for all your interesting comments, discussion, info, and funny stuff!

Welcome to the group, MareCity!

That old parking ramp scared me to be in. I was so glad when it was removed.

I also noticed from the pictures the major change that Leicht made. That area just looks so much nicer.

All of those people angry about downtown should really look at pictures like these to see how far we have come, knowing that to is much to still do.

Wow, picture #12....how sad! The best use of the river was for parking lots and a giant parking ramp! I forgot how how it was...during that time, I didn't go downtown much because I was too old for hanging out at the mall, and too young for bars.
Hi all, by the way, I'm a longtime lurker, and very rare poster to this thread. I follow this because I'm always looking for the latest development news/rumors/info. Thanks for all your interesting comments, discussion, info, and funny stuff!

Wow, picture #12....how sad! The best use of the river was for parking lots and a giant parking ramp! I forgot how how it was...during that time, I didn't go downtown much because I was too old for hanging out at the mall, and too young for bars.


Yea from the west side of the river that ramp always looked like it was sinking due to the diagonal openings. I'm sure it was even scarier to the woman who died falling from it during the fireworks. :(

Yea from the west side of the river that ramp always looked like it was sinking due to the diagonal openings. I'm sure it was even scarier to the woman who died falling from it during the fireworks. :(

Has anyone heard any news about the Bullfrogs effort with financing? I know that the goal was to break ground in May and things did sound promising but are kind of quiet now.

I have not heard anything. Starting this year was always going to be difficult. In any case, the biggest thing that people who want to see a new ballpark built can do is to pack Joannes this year. The better the attendance is at Joannes, the better the case is for a larger stadium.

Looks like Hitler is no longer furious (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODvwB77rqD8) about downtown Green Bay. He can't be. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126225405) This is probably a good thing.

As for the Bullfrogs stadium, there was a pretty good size of the financing announced in the news a while back but I have not heard anything in a while.

Oh no! I loved that video!

The render is from 1974 and shows what the Port Plaza Mall area was to look like after construction was completed. The photo is from about the same time. Demolition in the project area started in the 1960s, and the mall itself opened in 1977.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/2548349287_4121312d6a1.jpg http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/2548346977_a373f873f21.jpg


As it turns out, this is what made Hitler furious.

Green Bay really needs a NY pizza place downtown. Last night I was in Milwaukee and my friend down there told us all that we should go to Brick 3 pizza on the N Old World Third St. The place was just packed after bar close. Reminds me of being in NYC where you just order a pie or slice. I ran into Melinda from Real World Austin there ha. Doesn't Appleton have a pizza place like this on College? Great idea.

Tried the Five Guys Burger place the other night. Place was packed and lively and I couldn't help think how cool a joint like that would look downtown. Instead it's on freakin' Oneida and at the far end no less. Gawd I just hate Ashwaubenon and the mess that whole area really is and I hate how anything of note has to plop it's butt somewhere on that awful strip.

DT has it's trendy artsy places,it's upscale steak joint,a couple of fast food (ok,two if you count A&W)...it has it's corner diner Blackstone,a few coffee joints and bars.

It needs a clean,inviting,affordable and with a mainstream menu that will appeal to everybody.

There is a corner spot on E Walnut,right now I think all that is in there is a giant shelf w/ mags from Bosses....that would be great for a burger joint like this. Big windows on a busy street.......actually,you know what else may have been great in that same spot was Shopko Express.

Ok,I'm done dreaming.

First off, welcome to the board wallynut... Great to see a couple new posters in the past week.

In all fairness, I don't believe Ashwaubenon is a mess. No, it is not pedestrian friendly, but there is reason new chains/retailers opt to put up shop there. It is where the people and the money are. I agree it would be great to have a Five Guys DT, but you can't blame Ashwaubenon because it has built a successful reputation and proven track record. I think within the next few years you will start seeing a chain or two DT. With the construction of the Children's Museum and apartments, it is another piece in the puzzle to bring more foot traffic to the area.

Tried the Five Guys Burger place the other night. Place was packed and lively and I couldn't help think how cool a joint like that would look downtown. Instead it's on freakin' Oneida and at the far end no less. Gawd I just hate Ashwaubenon and the mess that whole area really is and I hate how anything of note has to plop it's butt somewhere on that awful strip.

DT has it's trendy artsy places,it's upscale steak joint,a couple of fast food (ok,two if you count A&W)...it has it's corner diner Blackstone,a few coffee joints and bars.

It needs a clean,inviting,affordable and with a mainstream menu that will appeal to everybody.

There is a corner spot on E Walnut,right now I think all that is in there is a giant shelf w/ mags from Bosses....that would be great for a burger joint like this. Big windows on a busy street.......actually,you know what else may have been great in that same spot was Shopko Express.

Ok,I'm done dreaming.


first and foremost, how was five guys? I've been wanting to try it, haven't gotten there yet.

I understand the frustration about everything going to ashwaubenon, but probably not fair to call it a mess. They're obviously doing something right or new businesses wouldn't keep popping up there.

Five Guys is really good. I got a reg. cheesburger which is two patties and my wife got a little which is one. Just a very good burger. You can get any of like 10 toppings on it. I mean,was it 'change the world good'???..no...but it was quite tasty and we will be back. We shared a small cajun fry and had some left over. Open kitchen which was interesting and the place was packed. Constant flow of ppl in and out and that was like 7:30 at night.

Prices werent bad..we also shared a large soda and it was $13.

Closest thing I can compare it to would be if Fuddruckers and Culvers had a baby but I think Five's was a bit better overall even tho we love Fudds/Culvers.

It blows away anything offered by BK,McD,etc.

Maybe it was just something new...I will have them again in a month and see if I feel the same. My wife is tough to please and she thought it was great so......

I have been out to 5 guys two times and really enjoyed it. A bit far to go for me for a hamburger but it is pretty good!

I have to agree with you on Ashwaubenon, they must be doing something right as most of Green Bay's retail has moved there. I wish our leaders would learn from what Ashwaubenon is doing.

first and foremost, how was five guys? I've been wanting to try it, haven't gotten there yet.

I understand the frustration about everything going to ashwaubenon, but probably not fair to call it a mess. They're obviously doing something right or new businesses wouldn't keep popping up there.

Is Ashwaubenon doing anything? Demographics and trends have been favoring suburban development for a couple of decades. I think the phenomenon is more socio-cultural than the result of good policy. Coming from a downtown perspective, I was shocked when someone told me what commercial real estate on Oneida leases for... There's a premium on being where the people are, and the people like to drive their cars to parking lots, walk a hundred feet and walk into a retail establishment. Personally, I don't get it. I don't particularly think it's convenient even.

When the 41 bypass was built between Green Bay and De Pere and the 172 built eastward through Allouez back in the 70's, Ashwaubenon was in the right place at the right time. Plenty of real estate available for commerical development and easy access for every one in the Green Bay metro to get there. Grand Chute down in the Fox Cities has benefited in a similar manner.

When the 41 bypass was built between Green Bay and De Pere and the 172 built eastward through Allouez back in the 70's, Ashwaubenon was in the right place at the right time. Plenty of real estate available for commerical development and easy access for every one in the Green Bay metro to get there. Grand Chute down in the Fox Cities has benefited in a similar manner.

Also behind the growth of Oneida St. was the construction in the late '50s of both the Arena and the stadium. Prior to that, I don't think there was an Oneida St. in Ashwaubenon.

Five Guys is really good. I got a reg. cheesburger which is two patties and my wife got a little which is one. Just a very good burger. You can get any of like 10 toppings on it. I mean,was it 'change the world good'???..no...but it was quite tasty and we will be back. We shared a small cajun fry and had some left over. Open kitchen which was interesting and the place was packed. Constant flow of ppl in and out and that was like 7:30 at night.

Prices werent bad..we also shared a large soda and it was $13.

Closest thing I can compare it to would be if Fuddruckers and Culvers had a baby but I think Five's was a bit better overall even tho we love Fudds/Culvers.

It blows away anything offered by BK,McD,etc.

Maybe it was just something new...I will have them again in a month and see if I feel the same. My wife is tough to please and she thought it was great so......


OK, I couldn't resist anymore so I went to five guys for lunch today. Remember that movie "The Hangover"? It was a funny movie, but it had been so over-hyped that by the time I saw it I was expecting it to be the funniest movie I had ever seen, and was of course...disappointed.

I have to say, I felt the same about five guys. It was a good burger, don't get me wrong - but after all of the hype, I was expecting a little more. I'll go back, though...

OK, I couldn't resist anymore so I went to five guys for lunch today. Remember that movie "The Hangover"? It was a funny movie, but it had been so over-hyped that by the time I saw it I was expecting it to be the funniest movie I had ever seen, and was of course...disappointed.

I have to say, I felt the same about five guys. It was a good burger, don't get me wrong - but after all of the hype, I was expecting a little more. I'll go back, though...

I think that I can say that I have watched the hangover maybe 25 times and think it is still pretty damn funny. It really just amazes me that I really never go to ashwaubenon, outside the resch, and then never travel via 172 or 41 anyway, I am pretty sure I go to Appleton more often, anyways, we pretty much stick to the east side and make due. But I still think the hangover is funny...

from the green bay press-gazette (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100427/GPG0101/100427116/1978)

City height limits lifted for Zippin Pippin roller coaster
By Scott Williams • swilliams@greenbaypressgazette.com • April 27, 2010

Green Bay city plan commissioners have cleared the way for the Zippin Pippin roller coaster by rezoning the land and easing local height restrictions.

The roller coaster will be located on the west side of Bay Beach Amusement Park on property the city had acquired for park expansion.

The city Plan Commission agreed Monday to rezone the land from residential to public institutional.

Commissioners also unanimously agreed to change the height restriction for structures at city-owned Bay Beach from 35 feet to 70 feet to accommodate the new roller coaster.

Both actions must be ratified by the City Council.

City officials plan to begin construction this summer on the historic wooden roller coaster, which is expected to cost $3 million. Its public debut is scheduled for May 2011.

Isn't the "big slide" over 35 feet tall? Surely the ferris wheel is, isn't it?

Isn't the "big slide" over 35 feet tall? Surely the ferris wheel is, isn't it?
I am sure that area already is zoned correctly. If you can remember back a few years, the area where the pippen is going to be built was all residential, therefore requires a zoning change, its funny that it was even news. Zoning changes happen all the time and rarely ever get press. whatever

Also behind the growth of Oneida St. was the construction in the late '50s of both the Arena and the stadium. Prior to that, I don't think there was an Oneida St. in Ashwaubenon.
The 1960 aerial photo on this site (http://www.gis.co.brown.wi.us/website/orthophotos/viewer.htm) shows that Oneida only goes as far south as Cormier. South of that is just fields.

The 1960 aerial photo on this site (http://www.gis.co.brown.wi.us/website/orthophotos/viewer.htm) shows that Oneida only goes as far south as Cormier. South of that is just fields.

Great map! I've been focused on the airport and from 1938 to 1960 is disappears. What year did the airport move to this area? There must be another airfield somewhere on the East side.

^^

The airport opened in 1948.

airport info (http://www.airnav.com/airport/KGRB)

I'll stick to my guns that Oneida is a big ulgy mess. That whole strip is just a cluster of ugly signs and stores just plopped wherever.

I've seen nice,organized,inviting,clean,well planned suburban retail developments and Ashwaubenon aint it.

The mall is a joke. I can start at one end and get to all the stores I want to at the other end in under 20 minutes. I can go to Fox River and spend 45 and still not to get every place I'd like to.

It's very un-pedestrian friendly. Try making the walk from Barnes and Noble to JC Penny w/o stopping 19 times for cars. Plus..the whole landscape is ugly,uninspired and 100% car driven but not in a good way. Traffic is absurd.

It's so much like DT..just plop that wherever,no thought at all.

Lets say you park at Shopko and need to go to Verizon and JC Penny across the street and then want Five Guys for lunch before a movie at Marcus. Lets say you don't want to be hopping in and out of the car 5 times so you decide to walk it. Make that trek and tell me how great it is. Make that trek after Dec 1st and tell me how you like the 2 feet of snow and ice piled on the walk way under 172.

Go shopping at JC Penny,walk out with 6 bags and tell me how fun it is getting to the bus stop over at Old Chicago.

I agree that it isn't about ASHW 'doing' a damn thing 'right'. You have the Resch,Lambeau,upper middle class residential..the highways and airport...it's just kind of a Frankenstein that grew out of it's surroundings.

I lived in ASW from 1998 through 2008,I worked there since 2005 until this year and I've driven and walked it 1000's of times and when I say it's a pit I am pretty firm in in my beliefs.

Just how I see it,I don't begrudge anyone who thinks it's a great area.


As for Five Guys. Like I said,it didn't change my world but I thought it was at least as good as what anybody else has.

No,it's not the end all of burgers. I would still probably prefer Hardees (not taking into account that a Hardees burger is $6) but 5G was still pretty dang good.

I think one thing it does show is how hungry (pun intended) this area is for new affordable,fast food places to eat.

People are sick of McDonalds and Culvers and TB around here.

The $$$ steak joints DT are great and it's nice to get places like Chilis but you can't get Chilis for lunch every day and who can drop $150 on dinner more than once a month (or year in my case)?

GB needs some more fast food choices.

To me,the best part of roadtrips isn't always the destination but to get to eat at places like Dunkin Donuts,White Castle,Popeyes,etc that we don't get up here.

Great map! I've been focused on the airport and from 1938 to 1960 is disappears. What year did the airport move to this area? There must be another airfield somewhere on the East side.

On the east side in De Pere there was privately owned Nicolet Airport, a grass landing strip. It was in the area now bordered by Chicago St. on the South and Le Brun St on the North. It doesn't appear in the 1938 or 1960 photos so it must have only operated there sometime in the 22 years between the photos. As a kid in the '70s I played soccer at Doty School and I remember adults commenting that it was "out near the old airport." Nicolet Airport is now located in the Town of Humboldt. Every year it hosts the EAA RC mini-Fly In. If you ever get a chance to attend it's a fun event where plane crashes aren't so deadly.

There was a snippet (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/greenbaypressgazette/access/2014548701.html?FMT=FT&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&fmac=892aec80166b89ebc5b6b0f5f51daf42&date=Apr+19%2C+2010&author=&pub=&desc=Today+in+history)about the airport in the Press-Gazette this past month in their "Today in History" stories.

April 19, 1963 -- Squall Line Roars through County: A squall line with winds up to 40 miles an hour ripped through Brown County east of the Fox River Thursday evening causing considerable damage to property and resulting in scattered power and telephone outages.

The wind ripped a Piper Cub airplane from its moorings at Nicolet Airport in De Pere, carried it 150 feet causing over $1,000 damage.

I have to agree with you Wallynut, maybe not to the extent to call it a mess but it's pretty ugly. I work on Onieda so I am in that area a lot. It is not pedestrian friendly at all. The whole Green Bay area is built around the automobile but Ashwaubenon is the epitome of it. I can understand driving to a location but once I have parked I would like to just walk to where I need to go and the Onidea corridor just doesn't allow that. Things aren't going to change any time soon either, Five Guys has shown us that the demand is still there. Steve Kubacki, Ashwaubenon's administrative director, talked to one of my classes last semester and told us how the village loves the businesses that are located there and want to continue to grow but they have a renewed interest in the residential and community aspects of the village. While that is hopeful, I doubt any of those improvements have to do with the Oneida corridor.

To me,the best part of roadtrips isn't always the destination but to get to eat at places like Dunkin Donuts,White Castle,Popeyes,etc that we don't get up here.

Because the best thing about New York City is Dunkin Donuts, and the best thing about a city like New Orleans is Chick-fil-a and Margaritaville.

Green Bay's restaurant trend is headed in the right direction with places like Chefusion, quality food at a moderate price. We need more chefs like Chef Tony who are willing to source ingredients, and gain their inspiration from the Farmers Market On Broadway. Chefs that come from a diverse historic background [speaking of Chef Tony's experience in California] who provide an array of palate cleansers, not just another burger joint. What's even better about a place like Chefusion is that its fine dining is moderately priced, and its lounge menu is even more affordable.

What Green Bay needs are more places like Fetaz, which is showing promise with its affordable, quick casual lunches, without compromising on quality.

We've made it clear that we don't want Ashwaubenon [box stores, etc.] in Green Bay, and once chain restaurants hit our downtown that will be the case. Leave the Noodles & Company, Panera, Old Chicago, Tilted Kilt, Darden [LongHorn, Olive Garden, Red Lobster], Texas Roadhouse, IHOP, Hooters, Golden Corral, Red Robin, Applebees's to Ashwaubenon. Retain the quality, affordable, local establishments, such as: Chefusion, Fetaz, Vita, Kavarna/Parisi's, Titletown, Angelina, Little Tokyo, Bangkok Garden, and Al's [yes, Al's]. The character of each of these restaurants has greater a value then the mere reputation of a chain-waubenon restaurant. A reputation which focuses on [genetically modified] consistency over [wholesome nutritional] quality. Not to mention buying local is buying sustainable, but I digress.

Post Script: Chefusion won the Wisconsin Main Street Award for Best New Downtown Business
http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12376658

The 1960 aerial photo on this site (http://www.gis.co.brown.wi.us/website/orthophotos/viewer.htm) shows that Oneida only goes as far south as Cormier. South of that is just fields.

The first photo below shows Oneida St. south of Lombardi Ave. (then called Highland Ave.) in 1957 just as construction was completed on the new City Stadium. It does not look like Oneida south of Highland and the Arena is paved or completely paved yet. The street looks to end at this point at what may well be Cormier Road, as you note.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/scan1003A.jpg


I have no year for this second photo, but it appears to date to about 1970, the year, if I'm correct, that the last of the end-zone areas were filled in with seating at the stadium to make a complete bowl around the playing field at the bowl's full height. Skyboxes, etc. were added later. As you can see, much of Ashwaubenon in the distance is still fields, small woods and farms. When Bay Park Square first opened, my mother considered it "way out there." Both photos are through the Packer Hall of Fame.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/scan2004A.jpg

Great map! I've been focused on the airport and from 1938 to 1960 is disappears. What year did the airport move to this area? There must be another airfield somewhere on the East side.

From what I know, Brown County's principal airport before Austin Straubel opened in 1948 was Blesch Field, later known as Brown County Airport. I believe it operated from ca. 1917-1948 on about 65 acres of land off what's now the southwest corner of Lombardi and Ashland, about where Tundra Lodge is now and where Green Bay Structural Steel used to be. The landing area there for at least part of the time, if not the entire time of the airport, was grass and dirt. Research is needed here, but I don't believe Blesch/BCA had scheduled airline service for much, if not all, of its existence. Probably mostly private craft.

The following photo is NOT from Blesch Field but from Austin Straubel and is dated 1966. Photo from a Press-Gazette Collection at the Wisconsin Historical Society.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/0307000301-l-1.jpg

The 1960 aerial photo on this site (http://www.gis.co.brown.wi.us/website/orthophotos/viewer.htm) shows that Oneida only goes as far south as Cormier. South of that is just fields.

For a better aerial map, check out this site (http://maps.gis.co.brown.wi.us/geoprime/). Use the 'drop-down' menus on the upper right to choose aerial photos from different years. The slider bar lets you smoothly transition between photos. Use your mouse wheel to zoom in. Kinda fun to see how things change.

Hey, on that 1938 aerial view of Brown County, I think you can actually see Blesch Field and how it was laid out. Looks like it's the triangle-like area. First time I've seen that.

Hey, on that 1938 aerial view of Brown County, I think you can actually see Blesch Field and how it was laid out. Looks like it's the triangle-like area. First time I've seen that.

Absolutely it's visible. Check it out here (http://maps.gis.co.brown.wi.us/geoprime/#xmax=93283.97037158044;ymin=559448.1399259182;ymax=562097.4454814737;xmin=89645.08148269156)(then click the upper right drop-down to change to the 1938 photo).

I read somewhere that Charles Lindburgh flew the Spirit of St Louis into this 'airport', after his famous flyover of the Atlantic. I don't know whether or not there were "scheduled" flights out of this 'airport'. dang I thought I had blogged about this once upon a time when I still had the time & energy but I guess not.....

Thanks for the links to those prehistoric satellitic photography! First, I had no idea satellites were photographing back in the thirties, 50's i could see. Second, too bad there are large gaps of time, but I guess I did find out what I really wanted to...how Mason St. looked passing over the Fox before the elevated structure. lol

Nonetheless ive always surfed through the Terraserver way back when, then the yahoo, google and microsoft maps/satellite photos and its always neat to see whats changed.

Oh and anyone check out the new Google Earth? there is a small plugin to download that it prompts you for, but much of downtown Milwaukee is 3d'ified(??) while in GB Lambeau Field is and a couple buildings downtown. And Madison has some of it 3d'ified. Its kinda neat.

Oneida has got to be one of the ugliest streets in the country, and believe me, the competition in that regard is pretty tough.

One of the best things downtown has going for it is its many high quality independent and locally owned restaurants. -Some of them even have fantastic burgers.

I totally agree with what MattGiguere says in his above post. Chains suck money out of communities. They don't enrich them.

I attended the East River Trail Connection Public Meeting at the ARTgarage tonight and there was about 35 or so people that showed up for the event. The presentation was good and attendees had plenty of questions for the presenter Nic Sparacio, City of Green Bay Planning Department and Vice Chair for the Workgroup. There was only one person associated with a business, the co-owner of Streu’s, at the meeting . Mostly, it was residents and representatives of neighborhood associations. A few of the landowners were vocal in their opposition to the trail but a couple of them were more at ease with the idea after their concerns were addressed.

This project is still in the development planning stage and things may change. The East River Workgroup committee will now start its quest for grants and other funding sources. Construction of Phase 1 may start in 2012 with completion in 2014. No dates can be given for Phase 2 but they are in the 20-year range.

This “missing link” will connect over 30 miles of trails that converge in the DT area. In the next 10 years or so there will hopefully be a Westside trail that connects DT to the Mt Bay Trail. Also in the planning are conversion of rail lines to Algoma and the Ahnapee Trail and one going southward towards Denmark, where the rails have already been removed and there is a trail with a crushed limestone surface.

The East River Connection will be a big benefit to the East side of GB. I’ve been talking to people in the neighborhood during walks and bike rides and almost everyone is in favor of it. A few residents that don’t have cars and use bikes for traveling to and from work are looking forward to being able to get around without having to compete with automobile traffic. The ERT connection will be an alternate transportation corridor for people living in the core neighborhoods of the city and is just another step in a future that’s less auto-centric.

As for the 'ugliness' of the Oneida St commercial strip, one must keep in mind that prior to 1977, Ashwaubenon was an unincorporated TOWNSHIP, just like our own disaster here called Grand Chute Township. For the township to do any more than what was done in the line of planning and development control up to that time would have been an open invite for the landowners to have their properties annexed into the City of Green Bay.

If you think that the Oneida St area in Ashwaubenon is an ugly 'no pedestrians' zone, just do some poking around in Grand Chute Township, especially along College Ave, Wisconsin Ave and around Fox River Mall. You'll be longing for the 'unfriendliness' of Ashwaubenon in no time.

Grand Chute Township makes the City of Appleton itself look cheap and unkempt, even though the city takes great pains to keep itself up. Most out of town visitors don't even realize that they are not even IN Appleton when they are in the Fox River Mall area, yet that area reflects badly on the entire Fox Cities metro area.

:no:

Mike

but I guess I did find out what I really wanted to...how Mason St. looked passing over the Fox before the elevated structure. lol


This answered another question for me too. My older relatives have always referred to the elevated bridge as the "WEST Mason Street Bridge" even though it connects East and West Mason. The photo showing that you had to turn onto Adams St from the old bridge to connect to the rest of East Mason Street where it aligned with West Mason would explain that.

As for the 'ugliness' of the Oneida St commercial strip, one must keep in mind that prior to 1977, Ashwaubenon was an unincorporated TOWNSHIP, just like our own disaster here called Grand Chute Township. For the township to do any more than what was done in the line of planning and development control up to that time would have been an open invite for the landowners to have their properties annexed into the City of Green Bay.

If you think that the Oneida St area in Ashwaubenon is an ugly 'no pedestrians' zone, just do some poking around in Grand Chute Township, especially along College Ave, Wisconsin Ave and around Fox River Mall. You'll be longing for the 'unfriendliness' of Ashwaubenon in no time.

Grand Chute Township makes the City of Appleton itself look cheap and unkempt, even though the city takes great pains to keep itself up. Most out of town visitors don't even realize that they are not even IN Appleton when they are in the Fox River Mall area, yet that area reflects badly on the entire Fox Cities metro area.

:no:

Mike

I checked out the area around Fox River Mall on Street View and never realized until now that the area doesn't have any sidewalks. It seems pretty standard for Wisconsin's Cities and Villages to include sidewalks with most of their Streets, but I guess being a township Grand Chute gets a pass on having to implement curbs and sidewalks?

Construction to start on Salvation Army's Kroc Center

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=20104290600

Relocation of Port Plaza Tower residents is first step in Northland Hotel's comeback
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100430/GPG0101/4300568/1978

I checked out the area around Fox River Mall on Street View and never realized until now that the area doesn't have any sidewalks. It seems pretty standard for Wisconsin's Cities and Villages to include sidewalks with most of their Streets, but I guess being a township Grand Chute gets a pass on having to implement curbs and sidewalks?
Yea, the township did it that way there for one reason and one reason *ONLY* - to keep their tax rate and special assessment costs lower than those of the City of Appleton in order to prevent annexations.

:ohno:

And to think that that area is the 'front yard/front porch' of the ENTIRE Fox Cities metro area.

:no:

Mike

Thanks for the links to those prehistoric satellitic photography! First, I had no idea satellites were photographing back in the thirties, 50's i could see.

I'm guessing the aerial view of Brown County in 1938 was taken in stages from a higher-flying plane(s). There were no satellites. I'm thinking computers can make an aerial view look like it was taken from a higher elevation than it actually was.

I attended the East River Trail Connection Public Meeting at the ARTgarage tonight . . . .

Great. Thanks for the report on the East River Trail developments.


Associated Banc-Corp says it's not for sale. Although it has its central Green Bay bank downtown, Associated relocated its office headquarters to Ashwaubenon a few years back ('90s?). Maybe if Rufus Kellogg or Jake Rose were still around, that new headquarters would have been built downtown in a building more to scale with the fact Associated is the second-largest Wisconsin-based banking company (behind M&I).

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100429/GPG03/4290626/1247/Photos--CEO-says-Associated-lost-focus--customers

-------
Looks like Austin Straubel possibly may lose another airline. United and Continental are in merger talks. We'll see if that affects service down the road to Cleveland, which starts up again here in May.
-------

Before there was Oneida St., there was Military Ave., which dates as a commercial strip to the 1950s and was the first major competition for downtown. Press-Gazette yesterday did a piece on the street and its past. The article says there was once a Mercedes car lot on Military. I don't remember that. Maybe they meant to say Mercury or something??? The photos below are from the Neville Public Museum and ran with the article. The captions say the photos date to the mid-1960s, but maybe the one with the closer-up view of cars at Green Bay Plaza is from the early '60s. The article says the Plaza — seen in all three photos — was built in 1962. In the aerial view, that's Military running left to right and W. Mason running top to bottom. North is to the left.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100429/GPG0101/4290601/-1/archive

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-10.jpg

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-1-4.jpg

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-4-3.jpg

City height limits lifted for Zippin Pippin roller coaster
By Scott Williams • swilliams@greenbaypressgazette.com • April 27, 2010

Green Bay city plan commissioners have cleared the way for the Zippin Pippin roller coaster by rezoning the land and easing local height restrictions.

Finally, here's a view of the former wooden roller coaster at Bay Beach years ago. Looks to be from the '20s. Big baseball game going on.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/1250528640.jpg

I'm guessing the aerial view of Brown County in 1938 was taken in stages from a higher-flying plane(s). There were no satellites. I'm thinking computers can make an aerial view look like it was taken from a higher elevation than it actually was.



Great. Thanks for the report on the East River Trail developments.


Associated Banc-Corp says it's not for sale. Although it has its central Green Bay bank downtown, Associated relocated its office headquarters to Ashwaubenon a few years back ('90s?). Maybe if Rufus Kellogg or Jake Rose were still around, that new headquarters would have been built downtown in a building more to scale with the fact Associated is the second-largest Wisconsin-based banking company (behind M&I).

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100429/GPG03/4290626/1247/Photos--CEO-says-Associated-lost-focus--customers

-------
Looks like Austin Straubel possibly may lose another airline. United and Continental are in merger talks. We'll see if that affects service down the road to Cleveland, which starts up again here in May.
-------


The only reason Associated isn't for sale is because the stock price is so low right now. Everything is for sale if the price is right. This is coming from someone who works for the other bank mentioned in the post. We've had many rumors over the years of being sold, and I would be surprised if it doesn't happen at some point...

Relocation of Port Plaza Tower residents is first step in Northland Hotel's comeback
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100430/GPG0101/4300568/1978[/QUOTE]

Wow, quite the :storm: of negative comments on the P-G article regarding this project! People calling to knock this "eyesore" down? WTF? Why I ever read those idiotic comments, I don't know. I really try to understand them sometimes, I really do. I hope this P-G forum doesn't become viewed as the "consensus" of the community though. That forum is really nothing positive, just bitching for fun.

^^ Yea the pessimism is unbelievably sad...Worse yet, I read the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, the Kenosha paper, Post Crescent, Madison Capital Times, and Minneapolis Star Tribune all of which online have comments sections...and well there is plenty of random knee-jerk pessimism in those too.

^^
I think it's wonderful that they want to give the seniors and disabled new housing that is designed just as that -- housing and not a converted downtown hotel. Hopefully, the City will be able to find someone who can step up to the plate right away to redevelop the hotel once the residents vacate.

Otherwise Puant, you're going to see the mother of all :storm:s over in the GBPG comment section!

[QUOTE=Tower Park;56147027]Before there was Oneida St., there was Military Ave., which dates as a commercial strip to the 1950s and was the first major competition for downtown. Press-Gazette yesterday did a piece on the street and its past. The article says there was once a Mercedes car lot on Military. I don't remember that. Maybe they meant to say Mercury or something??? The photos below are from the Neville Public Museum and ran with the article. The captions say the photos date to the mid-1960s, but maybe the one with the closer-up view of cars at Green Bay Plaza is from the early '60s. The article says the Plaza — seen in all three photos — was built in 1962. In the aerial view, that's Military running left to right and W. Mason running top to bottom. North is to the left.
*************************************************************
1962 was probably the start of the decline of downtown just as it was across the country. When the Plaza opened the discount store was not Prange's. Not sure what company ran the first all in one store but it was in competition with Shopko which had just opened their first store on Military. The biggest draw though was free parking and direct view of the store. People still believe it's less of a walk from end of parking lot as long as they can see their destination, rather than parking a block away downtown but having to walk and turn a corner makes it seem farther away I suppose. Even as a boy in the fifties and sixties I felt something was missing when we stopped going downtown. No friendly merchants, not as likely to see someone you know on the corner. Meeting at Woolworth for an ice cream soda. That old style started to fade rapidly by 1962.

1962 was probably the start of the decline of downtown just as it was across the country. When the Plaza opened the discount store was not Prange's. Not sure what company ran the first all in one store but it was in competition with Shopko which had just opened their first store on Military. The biggest draw though was free parking and direct view of the store. People still believe it's less of a walk from end of parking lot as long as they can see their destination, rather than parking a block away downtown but having to walk and turn a corner makes it seem farther away I suppose. Even as a boy in the fifties and sixties I felt something was missing when we stopped going downtown. No friendly merchants, not as likely to see someone you know on the corner. Meeting at Woolworth for an ice cream soda. That old style started to fade rapidly by 1962.

Kresge's was in where PJ's and Old Country Buffet are now. I remember when I was about 16 or 17 and it closed and went out of business. TJ Maxx went in sometime later and after Prange-Way (which replaced Prange's) closed it moved into the larger space. I still remember when Santa came by helicopter and had his "house" behind where Office Depot's loading dock is now. Also there used to be a carnival that would set up for a week in the parking lot to "test" the equipment at the start of the festival season (about April or May?) You could see the ferris wheel and lights and hear the music from blocks away.

I'm sure some old ads could be found in the P-G microfilm newspapers at the library. When it first opened, it was one of the few or maybe only strip mall. And then later became one of the early "enclosed malls" - the first enclosed mall being the Valley Fair Mall, now gone except the Budget Theater in the back.

Kresge's was in where PJ's and Old Country Buffet are now. I remember when I was about 16 or 17 and it closed and went out of business. TJ Maxx went in sometime later and after Prange-Way (which replaced Prange's) closed it moved into the larger space. I still remember when Santa came by helicopter and had his "house" behind where Office Depot's loading dock is now. Also there used to be a carnival that would set up for a week in the parking lot to "test" the equipment at the start of the festival season (about April or May?) You could see the ferris wheel and lights and hear the music from blocks away.

I'm sure some old ads could be found in the P-G microfilm newspapers at the library. When it first opened, it was one of the few or maybe only strip mall. And then later became one of the early "enclosed malls" - the first enclosed mall being the Valley Fair Mall, now gone except the Budget Theater in the back.

I remember when the discount department store Topps (or was it Kopps?) was where the Prange Way eventually went in. And wasn't Prange Way called Prange Budget at one time before they were called Prange Way? And who remembers the other Prange Way store over on the northeast side -- I think it was off Quincy Street. And at the end of Military Avenue on Velp you had the Florida Fruit Market where you got the best produce in all of Green Bay. Other side of Velp was the Valley Outdoor Theater and a Mars Drive-in. God, am I old!

It looks like another store has seen the light...

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100502/GPG0703/5020619/1247/GPG03/Richard-Ryman-column--Safety-awards-doled-out-to-15

Surfin' Bird moves

Surfin' Bird has moved to 114 S. Broadway from 2067 Holmgren Way, Ashwaubenon.

The 22-year-old skate shop specializes in skateboards, snowboards, men's and women's apparel and accessories.

And then later became one of the early "enclosed malls" - the first enclosed mall being the Valley Fair Mall, now gone except the Budget Theater in the back.


For the enclosed mall they did that in 1977, the same year Port Plaza opened.It looks like another store has seen the light...

Surfin' Bird has moved to 114 S. Broadway from 2067 Holmgren Way, Ashwaubenon.

The 22-year-old skate shop specializes in skateboards, snowboards, men's and women's apparel and accessories.

Moving back close to its roots as its first store was on Dousman St. just west of Broadway.

I shopped at Green Bay Plaza this afternoon (Sunday) and there was a good crowd. Including outlots and a newer addition facing W. Mason, by my count the shopping center has 21 or 22 stores/storefronts today. Atlanta Bread Company and Hollywood Video recently left, but it looks like Big Lots possibly is moving in where Linens 'N Things left a year or so ago (there was remodeling work going on there Sunday). Everything else is filled. In addition to its original architecture, I've never liked the humongous parking lot there. Seems far too big, it's never filled up. And it seems even bigger because there's no landscaping whatsoever.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/gb-atlanta-bread-closes

By the way, while we're on the topic, I believe the first shopping center on Military Ave. may have been the much smaller Beacon Center, which was completed in 1958. A principal tenant was the variety discount store Bargain Way, which later became Aim Variety after Topps (I think), Shopko and other bigger discounters opened up on Military and nearby. I'd like to say Beacon Center was the first shopping center in Green Bay, but it may have been preceded by the even smaller Marquette Center on W. Mason. Beacon Center was built by Management Enterprises of Green Bay, the same company, I believe, that's now teamed with the Packers to purchase/manage/develop certain properties just west of Lambeau Field to build the team's revenue. I think Kmart's days west of Lambeau may be numbered, and that area eventually redeveloped into a more upscale, sports-themed shopping complex down the road. Can you say Titletown?

I remember when the discount department store Topps (or was it Kopps?) was where the Prange Way eventually went in. And wasn't Prange Way called Prange Budget at one time before they were called Prange Way? And who remembers the other Prange Way store over on the northeast side -- I think it was off Quincy Street. And at the end of Military Avenue on Velp you had the Florida Fruit Market where you got the best produce in all of Green Bay. Other side of Velp was the Valley Outdoor Theater and a Mars Drive-in. God, am I old!

The PG article mentions Topps. I only remember it had a big neon sign that began with a T and it later changed to Prange's/then Prange Way, the discount division of the H.C. Prange Co. department store. . . . And on Velp, it was Harry Wery's Florida Fruit Market.

www.pleasantfamilyshopping.blogspot.com/2008/10/youre-topps-baby.html

]
I think Kmart's days west of Lambeau may be numbered, and that area eventually redeveloped into a more upscale, sports-themed shopping complex down the road. Can you say Titletown?


I can't wait to see what the Packers have planned for this area.

I'd like to say Beacon Center was the first shopping center in Green Bay, but it may have been preceded by the even smaller Marquette Center on W. Mason.

I grew up near the Marquette Center - it recently lost one of the long time tenents, the Bakery. The original owners sold out several years back and I heard something about illness forcing the current owners to close. I was sad it was no sold again, but I guess the Copps, Festival etc bakeries make it hard ot operate a small business bakery.

On a side note, The Marquette Center and the Office building across Redwood were built by the Pappe brothers. I grew up learning building maintenance and repair and construction from Harold who was a member of my church. (We bought the former Redeemer Lutheran church on the corner of 12th and Shawano and had lots to do including building a new altar. There are hammer marks on one corner from a miss I made when I was in 6th grade helping the "men" build it.

Also on the topic of build out... there is activity in the former Schauer and Schumacher building on E Walnut St ... wonder what's up ?? Any rumors?

And who remembers the other Prange Way store over on the northeast side -- I think it was off Quincy Street.

I remember shopping for school clothes at that store with my mom in the '70s. It was off N. Quincy across the street from the Proctor and Gamble mill. It closed and a new store was opened in East Town Mall in the early '80s. The Younkers Distribution Center is there now.

Intersting disscussion here guys, we sure have a lot of history represented on this forum.

Did anyone notice the wind turbines at East Town Mall? I didnt grab a picture yet, but will try to get over there to check them out.

Here is the press release. link (http://www.cabotinvestments.com/press-release-04-01-10.html)

Intersting disscussion here guys, we sure have a lot of history represented on this forum.

Did anyone notice the wind turbines at East Town Mall? I didnt grab a picture yet, but will try to get over there to check them out.

Here is the press release. link (http://www.cabotinvestments.com/press-release-04-01-10.html)

I saw those over the weekend and was wondering why they were there. Those turbines are about the size that many homeowners are installing on their property. When the issue arises locally about aesthetics you can bet someone will whine about them being unsightly and City Council will be quick to pass an ordinance banning them in city limits. Restrictive covenants in new subdivisions will do the same. As with the wind farm in southern Brown Co., green technology is going to meet resistance.

I know a person who developed a 2 block residential area in the Town of Scott and he put a restriction on rooftop solar panels. He said they were too ugly. But then he sold most of the lots to other developers that built ugly duplexes with just the garage doors facing the street. Go figure.

I don't know what's up at S&S, but I did see yesterday that they are working in all of the retail spaces in the Cherry St. Ramp. Perhaps they feel they'll be more leasable if they are more finished.

Regarding GB Plaza, my grandparents used to have a store there (Moore's Fashion Jewelry), so I have fond memories of that mall. For a time they also had a location on the 2nd floor of Port Plaza. At the time (early 80's) that was the really busy mall, and IIRC, my grandparents closed that location because the rent was too high! My how times have changed.

Intersting disscussion here guys, we sure have a lot of history represented on this forum.

Did anyone notice the wind turbines at East Town Mall? I didnt grab a picture yet, but will try to get over there to check them out.

Here is the press release. link (http://www.cabotinvestments.com/press-release-04-01-10.html)

I stopped at GNC at East Town today and snapped some quick pics of the wind turbines.

What is more odious, the parking lot? The light poles? Or the turbines?

Granted, if I put one or two of these on my small residential lot, my neighbors would be pissed and perhaps rightfully so. But as someone else pointed out, someday this might be considered "normal" and thus NOT ugly and annoying. Much like garage doors lining entire streets today. What is it going to take to get this to be the "norm"? I think East Town making this step is pretty admirable.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/33500024.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/02adc294.jpg

I remember when the discount department store Topps (or was it Kopps?) was where the Prange Way eventually went in. And wasn't Prange Way called Prange Budget at one time before they were called Prange Way? And who remembers the other Prange Way store over on the northeast side -- I think it was off Quincy Street. And at the end of Military Avenue on Velp you had the Florida Fruit Market where you got the best produce in all of Green Bay. Other side of Velp was the Valley Outdoor Theater and a Mars Drive-in. God, am I old!

Oh man I had forgotten all about the Mars drive in. Going to the Flroida Fruit market was always exciting as a kid.

I grew up near the Marquette Center - it recently lost one of the long time tenents, the Bakery. The original owners sold out several years back and I heard something about illness forcing the current owners to close. I was sad it was no sold again, but I guess the Copps, Festival etc bakeries make it hard ot operate a small business bakery.

On a side note, The Marquette Center and the Office building across Redwood were built by the Pappe brothers. I grew up learning building maintenance and repair and construction from Harold who was a member of my church. (We bought the former Redeemer Lutheran church on the corner of 12th and Shawano and had lots to do including building a new altar. There are hammer marks on one corner from a miss I made when I was in 6th grade helping the "men" build it.

Also on the topic of build out... there is activity in the former Schauer and Schumacher building on E Walnut St ... wonder what's up ?? Any rumors?

I think Marquette opened about 1955. A big feature was the Ben Franklin store. It was a big relief for parents who didn't have to take us downtown just to buy something for school. Parents could give us fifty cents and we'd head over on our bikes.

For all you rail enthusiasts...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Ig19gYP9o&feature=player_embedded

Maybe it's old news. The idea is to board the train without it ever stopping. It saves on energy & commute time. Interesting concept.

With the announcement yesterday of the merger of United and Continental airlines, Austin Straubel's airport director sees the possibility down the road perhaps of direct service from Green Bay to places like New York and/or Houston. Also, Frontier's new GB-to-Denver service is said to be running 80% full. A few years ago, Austin Straubel had direct service to Dallas on American Airlines, but that didn't last. Milwaukee and Madison have direct service to New York, and the director says there's a market here for that as well. I heard an aviation expert on the radio yesterday (not Dan Moore) saying the United/Continental merger nationally could actually mean reductions in service, depending on location. I know around the time Delta and Northwest merged, Delta flights from Green Bay to Cincinnati and Atlanta were dropped. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/airline-merger-could-mean-new--non-stop-options-for-Green-Bay-passengers
www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100504/GPG03/5040530/1247/Continental-back-in-Green-Bay

Below is a Press-Gazette-published photo of the first flight yesterday from GB of the renewed direct service to Cleveland on Continental.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-12.jpg

I can't wait to see what the Packers have planned for this area.

Me too, though the Packers' retail, etc. redevelopment efforts for west of Lambeau may be years in the making.

Also on the topic of build out... there is activity in the former Schauer and Schumacher building on E Walnut St ... wonder what's up ?? Any rumors?

Something's going on there but don't know if it's substantial. The window coverings have been removed and you can see ladders and building materials inside. There's a dumpster parked on Adams.

I don't know what's up at S&S, but I did see yesterday that they are working in all of the retail spaces in the Cherry St. Ramp. Perhaps they feel they'll be more leasable if they are more finished.

You can tell I live a dull life. I took a leisurely ride through the Cherry St. parking ramp yesterday afternoon and was surprised it was up to 75% full from bottom to top. It can't be a whole lot of retail shoppers parking there, so it must be principally downtown workers and people visiting offices. Nice views from the top.

I stopped at GNC at East Town today and snapped some quick pics of the wind turbines.

Based on your pictures, I like 'em, not intrusive, and a bit like a modern-art installation. Also like East Town's new facade and entrance enhancements and signage.


Shopko cutting a net 54 IT jobs from its Green Bay operations.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100504/GPG03/100504062/1978

With the announcement yesterday of the merger of United and Continental airlines, Austin Straubel's airport director sees the possibility down the road perhaps of direct service from Green Bay to places like New York and/or Houston. Also, Frontier's new GB-to-Denver service is said to be running 80% full. A few years ago, Austin Straubel had direct service to Dallas on American Airlines, but that didn't last. Milwaukee and Madison have direct service to New York, and the director says there's a market here for that as well. I heard an aviation expert on the radio yesterday (not Dan Moore) saying the United/Continental merger nationally could actually mean reductions in service, depending on location. I know around the time Delta and Northwest merged, Delta flights from Green Bay to Cincinnati and Atlanta were dropped. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/airline-merger-could-mean-new--non-stop-options-for-Green-Bay-passengers
www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100504/GPG03/5040530/1247/Continental-back-in-Green-Bay

Below is a Press-Gazette-published photo of the first flight yesterday from GB of the renewed direct service to Cleveland on Continental.

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/bilde-12.jpg

I'd be curious to see how they define 'reductions in service'. If it means that continental had a flight to cleveland leaving at 12:30 and united had one leave at 12:35 so they lose one, that isn't necessarily bad. Operating on the assumption that both flights were fairly full, they may be able to operate one flight on a bigger plane rather than 2 little regional jets (my nemesis).

I know that during the delta/nwa merger there were some flights dropped, but keep in mind that was in the middle of the recession and some of those flights may have been dropped anyway. The fact that they added back the ATL flight & I think the other too, tells me it may have had more to do with the economy than the merger..

You can tell I live a dull life. I took a leisurely ride through the Cherry St. parking ramp yesterday afternoon and was surprised it was up to 75% full from bottom to top. It can't be a whole lot of retail shoppers parking there, so it must be principally downtown workers and people visiting offices. Nice views from the top.

APAC, Nicolet Bank and AON are probably the majority. I know about 75% of APAC parks there. The rest in Pine St. All people leaving in the evening park in Cherry as it is better lit at night in the ramp and the walk to the ramp.

APAC, Nicolet Bank and AON are probably the majority. I know about 75% of APAC parks there. The rest in Pine St. All people leaving in the evening park in Cherry as it is better lit at night in the ramp and the walk to the ramp.

The much larger Pine St ramp just a block south is usually perhaps 80-90% full on weekdays too.

I'd say 98% of the cars parked in these ramps & lots drive in with just 1 person in the vehicle. OK maybe that's an overestimate. Or maybe not.

I guess that's why about half of the area in the "core" downtown is dedicated to car storage. Now I know the businesses down there need parking. But that doesn't change the fact that all the parking space is *yawn* boring dead space that kills any sort of vibrancy.

Something's going on there but don't know if it's substantial. The window coverings have been removed and you can see ladders and building materials inside. There's a dumpster parked on Adams.


I haven't followed the board as closely as I should have lately, so I apologize if this was mentioned previously. There was also also signs of life in a few of the Washington Street ramp retail units. Dumpsters, construction permits, drywall, etc. I haven't paid attention to the ramp during my walks recently, but that was about two weeks ago. I also did notice that the for lease signs were down on a couple of the units being worked on, but that might have been solely for construction or something, who knows.

The much larger Pine St ramp just a block south is usually perhaps 80-90% full on weekdays too.

I'd say 98% of the cars parked in these ramps & lots drive in with just 1 person in the vehicle. OK maybe that's an overestimate. Or maybe not.

I guess that's why about half of the area in the "core" downtown is dedicated to car storage. Now I know the businesses down there need parking. But that doesn't change the fact that all the parking space is *yawn* boring dead space that kills any sort of vibrancy.

The best picture of this is where you enter the East river trail from Monroe/University, right to the south of the East river bridge. Looking west it is a freaking sea of cars.

Kavarna will close at 6 p.m. this Sunday, May 9. Its goal is to reopen at its new location at 143 N. Broadway by Saturday, May 15. The adjoining Parisi's will take some additional time to get ready. Folks can stop by at the new location next week for free coffee while they're setting up; Kavarna people will be in and out and not there at all times. Parking is on the street and in Kavarna's own lot behind the restaurant on Chestnut.

www.kavarna.com

A ribbon-cutting ceremony and press conference for the seven new wind turbines at the front entrance of East Town Mall will be held Wednesday, May 12, at 10 am at the entrance. In the event of rain, the events will be held at center court. The mall is owned by Cabot Investment Properties, LLC. Cabot's project management team developed the turbines in conjunction with Kahler Slater Architects of Milwaukee and Gaia Power Systems and Priest Engineering of Denver. Installation was performed by Green Bay contractors Bayland Buildings and Suburban Electrical Engineers & Contractors. From an East Town press release:

"Cabot spokesman Jesse Terry stated that 'not only are the economic returns attractive, but clean energy produced from the turbines will significantly reduce the utility operating expense for the owner and tenants. Additionally, the turbines and the initiative they represent are expected to appeal to both mall customers, and potential tenants.' Mr. Terry further stated, 'that this is just the latest green initiative that has taken place at the mall, other items include replacement of older lighting fixtures to energy efficient lighting, installation of energy management system which controls energy consumption, replacement of several of the buildings original HVAC units with current 'state of the art' units utilizing environmentally friendly refrigerants, mandating the use of green cleaning products within the mall, and recycling by the mall tenants, in addition to cell phone and eye glass recycling bins.'

How it works:

Wind turns the Windspire ® airfoil which spins the rotor around, turning a generator which produces energy. This power is then either consumed at the source or is transferred to the electric grid."


Big front-page update on Military Ave.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100505/GPG0101/5050637/1978

Update on city/county discussions over Renard Isle. For the first time I've seen in print, the city has identified some possible uses for the 55-acre island: article says "a golf course, swimming beach or some other recreational facility." Presumably that's miniature golf, or it'd be a short nine holes. Swimming beach is an interesting option, considering that swimming has been banned at Bay Beach since 1933 initially, then again in 1938 when it was "prohibited altogether," according to the Bay Beach website. Bay Beach photos below from the Neville Public Museum. The sign behind the women says, "Beach Closed. Bay Water Impure. Bathe at Your Own Risk."

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100505/GPG0101/5050644/1978


http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/pavilion_boathouse.jpg http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/swimming_3.jpg http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww339/goetscha/swimming_beachclosed.jpg

Hello all, I finally got moved into the Rivers Edge Apartments (gave up waiting for the WaterMark temporarily)....and decided to go sit on the benches by the water....ha ha.......they are all gone.....they were removed just this week I guess.......anybody know why........I'm guessing either too many sleepers on the benches or THEY only want sleepers on the new City Deck......kinda strange turn of events..........IN with the NEW.....OUT with the OLD.....

Hello all, I finally got moved into the Rivers Edge Apartments (gave up waiting for the WaterMark temporarily)....and decided to go sit on the benches by the water....ha ha.......they are all gone.....they were removed just this week I guess.......anybody know why........I'm guessing either too many sleepers on the benches or THEY only want sleepers on the new City Deck......kinda strange turn of events..........IN with the NEW.....OUT with the OLD.....

Well I'm eating my own words now. The NEW BENCHES are back....somehow it never crossed by mind they would be replacing the old ones.....looks like they used some of the leftover HEAVY DUTY RAIN FOREST CITY DECK WOOD w/ wrought iron frames.........

Hello all, I finally got moved into the Rivers Edge Apartments (gave up waiting for the WaterMark temporarily)....and decided to go sit on the benches by the water.

Congratulations on your move. Glad there are benches again!

The governor has selected downtown Madison for the passenger rail stop there, chosing the Monona Terrace convention center (within walking distance of everything) over the the Kohl Center, the airport and a site just east of downtown. The AP story says this about passenger rail and the fall election for governor: "The candidates seeking to succeed Doyle are divided on high-speed rail. Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett, a Democrat, supports it. Both Republicans — Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker and former U.S. Rep. Mark Neumann, oppose it. Walker issued a statement after the Madison stop announcement vowing to kill the high-speed rail project if elected because he believes it is a waste of taxpayer money. It's unclear what, if anything, Walker could do to stop the project since spending of the stimulus money has already been approved and work is under way."

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100507/GPG0101/5070606/-1/archive

Regarding Renard Isle, if I were at a meeting and some city official or document mentioned a swimming beach there as a possible use down the road, my ears would perk up and I'd want to know more. Given everything, I can't imagine that happening any time in the foreseeable future, unless there's somehow more to the story.

An update on WaterMark is on Tuesday's Redevelopment Authority agenda. An agenda item on Tuesday's city Finance Committee meeting is a request by Ald. Zima that the committee review the operating budget of the proposed new roller coaster at Bay Beach. At Wednesday's city Improvement & Service Committee, an agenda item is acceptance of a $117,000 DNR grant to assist in construction of CityDeck's Cherry Street Landing. Renard Isle is also on the agenda.

Not sure if anyone noted this in the Press Gazette last week.

Former Ald. Piton suggested a change to allow bars directly adjacent to a festival to allow open containers to leave their bars.

On this weeks agenda:

11. Request by Ald. Nicholson to review the Farmers Market on Broadway with possible action.
12. Review of the temporary Class "B" (Picnic) Beer and Wine Licenses.
13. Request by former Ald. Piton to consider allowing carry-out of alcohol from establishments in or adjacent to special event permit areas where alcohol is allowed.

Although not directly a brick and mortar issue with downtown planning. If this passes, the downtown festivals and events like Wednesday's Farmer's Market, Artstreet, Taste on Broadway, etc would be very impacted. Can you see a beer garden where Mom and Dad have to drink their beer or wine instead of strolling down the street or trying to find limited seating in the beer garden to sit with the kids and eat a meal? Many of these festivals rely on alcohol sales as a major portion of the fund-raising to make the festival work and make money.

What will happen is the event will move from the streets to places where the whole event or food court can be fenced off. Soon there will be an entrance fee to offset the loss of income. Anyone here want to see that? Or think some of these festivals would survive that?

Oh and is your church picnic near a bar? They would also have to allow open containers to come into the church picnic from any "adjacent" bar. Sound like a good idea?

Meeting is on Monday, May 10th, 5:30pm