Green Bay Development News [Archive] - Page 3

Bartles53

April 24th, 2007, 06:27 PM

Yeah, I dig that Al's picture. I love how out of place that building looks. Lots of character. I'm hoping those pictures were taken at 6:30am. I didn't see one person in any of the pictures. Looks like a movie set. They really need some housing/residents in that area soon.

Now this pains me. Another locally owned downtown landmark is closing its doors.

Posted April 24, 2007

Last call for The Stein: Green Bay landmark to close Monday

Family-owned supper club opened in 1961

By Nathan Phelps
nphelps@greenbaypressgazette.com

One of Green Bay's enduring business landmarks — The Stein Lounge and Supper Club — will close at the end of the month.

Co-owner Steve Geurts said Monday afternoon that April 30 would be the restaurant's last day open.

He did not elaborate on the reasons behind the decision to close the business.

"A little bit of everything," he said, when asked if it was business or personal reasons. "People that know downtown kind of understand the circumstance a little bit."

Geurts and his sister, Peggy Larson, are proprietors of the restaurant at 126 S. Adams St.

Sandie Motkowski of Howard has been going to the restaurant for more than a decade while working for Brown County.

"I've been coming here for as long as I have worked for the county, 13 years. It's so close, and it's good," she said Monday. "It's tradition. The Stein has always been here. It's a place you can count on — always good food, always good service."

The same family has owned the Stein for three generations, after opening its doors in 1961 with Frank Geurts at the helm.

Peggy Geurts — no direct relationship to the Stein's owners — has worked there for 33 years. She said the business has been a staple in the community for more than 40 years.

"To me it's devastating," she said. "It's sad because it's one of the last family-owned and operated restaurants in the Green Bay area."

Jeff Mirkes, executive director of Downtown Green Bay, said news of the closure came as a surprise to him Monday.

"It's understandable that businesses make decisions, and this one that comes as a surprise to the downtown," he said.

Mirkes pointed out just three days ago he heard compliments from two people about how they liked the establishment and the quality of service there.

This is the second long-time establishment to close in recent months.

The Candlestick closed earlier this year after owner Debby Dalebroux said several factors — from decreased traffic at the closed Washington Commons mall to the construction of a parking ramp behind the business — made the operation untenable.

Like the Stein, The Candlestick opened in early '60s, moving to a few different locations before settling at 119 N. Adams St.

Bartles53

April 24th, 2007, 06:28 PM

Double post

Emerald City

April 24th, 2007, 10:32 PM

I really liked The Stein as well. Very good German food, and their duck was excellent! Really will miss that place downtown! :ohno:

Puant

April 24th, 2007, 11:39 PM

I was walking past the Stein this morning, thinking about how great it is to have a place like that still going. 10 minutes later I saw a newspaper and found out they were closing.

Obviously, it is terrible how we have an institution like the Stein and Candlestick closing down. People are attributing these closures to the ugly side of the 'revitalization' effort--ie, all of the new restaurants that have opened lately, such as the ones in Baylake city center. I think you can read into that in Steve Guert's comment about "..people who know the downtown know the circumstances.."these new chain restaurants killed them. HOpefully this wasn't the only factor in the decision to close.

For sure, those of us who advocate for new downtown growth don't want to see the old institutions like this pay such a heavy price and close down. I would have thought the downtown revitalization would have helped, not hurt, these traditional businesses..With so many new office empolyees coming downtown now, also more people will be living downtown soon.

GBFAN

April 24th, 2007, 11:56 PM

Did anyone find out what happened to the announcement for the Younkers site. I read the minutes stating it would be on the 20th. Have not seen any press conference information.

avissers

April 25th, 2007, 12:33 AM

You can check out a walking tour of a portion of the Astor Historic District here... Enjoy.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=12823183#post12823183

:)

Green Bay 4 Life

April 25th, 2007, 12:47 AM

^^ Cool pictures, you beat me to the punch so to speak as I had wanted to do a photo thread tour of Astor. Oh well. As far as the announcement. The news is there was no news. No announcement, no reason for no announcement. So keep an eye on the minutes especially the RDA to see if anything is mentioned regarding why there was a delay or when something may actually come back up.

mgk920

April 25th, 2007, 06:30 AM

I just recently signed up for these forvms, so apologies if this has been recently discussed, but what is the latest on the old Port Plaza mall?

If I had my way, I would scrape the whole thing off (including the parking ramps), restore all of the street grid and let the market decide what to do with the blocks of vacant, developable land. I think that we would be amazed at what will follow.

It had a good run for about 25 years, and I liked my occasional visits there, but it is time to move on.

Mike

Puant

April 25th, 2007, 02:05 PM

^^ You think the same way most of us do. Some may say it's a waste to destroy perfectly good buildings....but then again, they're mall buildings and they suck. Nothing to love there but a bunch of faceless cinderblock. That plus it destroys the street pattern, forms huge barriers, kills street life, and so on.

I haven't heard anything in a few months, but what I last heard is that the plan is to raze most of the mall buildings and restore the street grid.

As far as the parking ramps, they can stay. Actually, the Pine St ramp is configured such that it can keep some connection.

TO best describe this, check out some of the illustrations on this web site (http://picasaweb.google.com/gBayPacker/Plans). The mall plans are the ones which have the red lines representing the street grid placement.

gbmphillips

April 25th, 2007, 03:11 PM

Green Bay roots

April 27th, 2007, 03:10 AM

RDA plans special meeting about On Broadway request

The Redevelopment Authority has scheduled a special meeting for 1:30 p.m. Friday at City Hall to consider a request by On Broadway Inc. for a $4 million loan guarantee from the city to acquire and redevelop the former Larsen Canning Co. property.

On Broadway first approached RDA and the city finance committee on April 10, but both groups asked that the proposal be reworked to reduce risk to the city. The non-profit group’s lack of cash flow and inexperience at large-scale development were cited as concerns.

On Broadway was asked to continue negotiations with the city to work out the concerns.

The project would consist of housing, some of which would be first-floor live-work units, art spaces and public gathering spaces facing Broadway. Also, offices and retail development would be part of the project. A number of canning factory buildings would be removed and the street grid restored.

— Richard Ryman/Press-Gazette

Bartles53

April 28th, 2007, 03:27 AM

RDA, On Broadway reach deal on former canning plant

By Richard Ryman
rryman@greenbaypressgazette.com

On Broadway Inc.’s request for city support in purchasing and developing the former Larsen Canning Co. site will go to the City Council Tuesday.

On Broadway came to the Redevelopment Authority on April 10 seeking city guarantees for $4 million in loans to buy the former food processing plant now owned by Bird’s Eye Inc. The RDA and the city finance committee asked for an amended agreement that reduced the city’s risk.

RDA members felt Friday’s agreement will do that.

“This is certainly a lot better agreement than we had last time around,” said Gary Delveaux, RDA vice chairman.

Plans call for converting the 20-plus acre property to housing, some of which would be first-floor live-work units, art spaces and public gathering spaces facing Broadway. Also, offices and retail development would be part of the project. A number of canning factory buildings would be removed and the street grid extended.

Alderman Tom Weber, an RDA member, said the agreement should receive council support.

“I don’t think anybody thinks that property is going to do us any good going to another buyer,” Weber said. “I think we made a lot of headway.”

Under the new agreement, the city will guarantee $3 million of $4 million in loans from M&I Bank.

The bank will assume risk for the $1 million not guaranteed by the city. It will have a mortgage which will be paid off before the guaranteed loan. The guaranteed loan, a New Market Tax Credit Loan, cannot be paid off before seven years in any case.

In return, the city will receive accelerated payments – after loans are accounted for – to recover tax increment finance district assistance to the project. In addition, the mayor would appoint three of the six members of a governing board to oversee the development. On Broadway will appoint the other three members.

The city can assume the loans and take over the property if On Broadway falls two months or more behind in its payments.

On Broadway will use about $3.5 million of the loans to acquire the property. It will repay the loans and TIF money through leases and property sales.

“It’s a good agreement. Both parties win. We have commitment from the city and from On Broadway,” said Greg Larsen, president of On Broadway Inc.

Green Bay roots

April 28th, 2007, 03:37 AM

Candlestick buyer will operate new club

By Nathan Phelps
nphelps@greenbaypressgazette.com

The owner of The Candlestick Lounge in Green Bay says the sale of the business will be completed in about a month with the buyer operating an establishment at the same location.

“I’m happy for the upcoming plans for the Candlestick and sad that my involvement ends,” Debra Dalebroux said Friday afternoon.

The lounge, located at 119 N. Adams St., is still open three days a week – Thursday, Friday and Saturday.

Original plans called for the business to close up this month, but Dalebroux said a decision was made to stay open on a limited basis during the sale process -- which is expected to be completed in late May, Dalebroux said.

Documents in the city of Green Bay Clerk's Office indicated Dalebroux intended to surrender the liquor license to Welhouse Sports Development, LLC. The matter is also on the agenda for the city’s Protection & Welfare Committee meeting Tuesday.

Paul Welhouse could not immediately be reached for comment Friday.

Jeff Mirkes, executive director of Downtown Green Bay Inc., said Friday afternoon he was pleased to see another entrepreneur looking at a business opportunity downtown.

“We’re seeing a quicker turnaround on a number of properties,” he said. “Five years ago a number of these properties … would have remained on the market for months and months.”

Bartles53

April 28th, 2007, 03:40 AM

From a GBPG article about the sale of the Candlestick building:

Jeff Mirkes, executive director of Downtown Green Bay Inc., said Friday afternoon he was pleased to see another entrepreneur looking at a business opportunity downtown.

“We’re seeing a quicker turnaround on a number of properties,” he said. “Five years ago a number of these properties … would have remained on the market for months and months.”

And this about two new restaurants opening on Broadway:

Urban Frog, Burger Co. find homes on Broadway

...

She said the new location provides a more fitting atmosphere than the strip mall she was in before.

"We really didn't name it Suburban Frog," she said. "You have a whole lot of different things going by your window (on Broadway); people riding bikes, a lot of pedestrian traffic."

These two articles are reason for optimism. Maybe the downtown area really is becoming a popular location for businesses to relocate. Now hopefully the housing we've been hearing about gets built someday soon so there will be people to frequent these places.

Puant

April 28th, 2007, 05:20 AM

Good news

Bay2Bay

April 29th, 2007, 09:38 PM

In case anyone missed Richard Ryman's column in Sundays PG here's the story below. It looks like another 12 story condo building is planned for the Lambeau Field area.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070429/GPG07/704290699/1247

Richard Ryman column: Condo project planned in Ashwaubenon

By Richard Ryman

There's another 12-story upscale condominium project planned for the metro area. Michael Krajewski of STL Properties is developing such a building for the southwest corner of Holmgren Way and Morris Avenue.

Two weeks ago, Green Bay developer Paul Kaczrowski announced a 12-story condo/office/retail development on Lombardi Avenue.

Krajewski is working on pre-sales and awaiting tax increment finance district approval from the village of Ashwaubenon.

He said his building will have room for about 60 condos, depending on configuration.

Plans for the lower floors aren't set, yet.

"There could be offices on the first couple of floors, or we are looking at a hotel chain taking over the first four floors," he said.

Krajewski said the units will average 2,400 square feet, and suites will have private elevator access. There will be underground parking.

The eight-acre site has four acres available for other development.

Krajewski said the location is well-suited to upscale urban living.

"In that area, you are close to everything. There is a lot that is within walking distance," he said.

He said a proposed pedestrian-friendly boulevard running from the Resch Center to Bay Park Square would only add to the appeal.

No construction schedule has been established.

Krajewski is a longtime contractor and owner of SKI Properties. His company built the new Pioneer Credit Union corporate headquarters next door to the condominium site.

LAX100

April 29th, 2007, 11:12 PM

Great news for green bay... There is so much condo development in Green Bay but with nothing set in stone do you think at least one of the proposals are going to stick?

Fillmore

April 29th, 2007, 11:16 PM

I don't. Upscale Urban living by Lambeau Field? This guy needs to go to Oxymoron school. There isn't a population base to support a tower that size. It's all speculation, just like Astor Place. Projects this scale don't have a chance in Green Bay.

Puant

April 30th, 2007, 01:23 AM

mgk920

April 30th, 2007, 04:12 AM

^^ I don't agree. I was very surprised when I first moved here and drove around town. There's a lot more money here than I thought. People don't tend to 'flaunt' it that much, but it's here. There is already a lot of 'upscale living' all over Green Bay, just not in the form of high-rises yet. Since high rise condo living will be kind of a 'niche' in this market, I think it will be successful. I'm not saying that GB could support 10 more high rise condos, but I think at least a couple of these will fly.
I kind of agree with you and I note the same thing here in the Appleton area. Most of that 'money' seems to me to now be in the suburban and township areas with the park-sized lawns that are required by law. Some of that 'why there is so little upper-end high-rise condo living' may well be that it was simply not yet built, even though there was a market that was demanding it - and in many cases it was not allowed by law (as for the 'by law' thing, see the local zoning codes).

Mike

gbmphillips

May 1st, 2007, 03:22 AM

Puant

May 1st, 2007, 04:52 AM

I got this in my email basket today from Downtown Green Bay Inc.--This style of living interests me a lot. It lays out some of the attractive features of the present downtown. It will certainly help a ton when the area is cleaned up and there's even more to do.

Here’s an interesting perspective / testimonial from a downtown Green Bay resident. Enjoy-

“Why I love living downtown”

Where do I start. How about last Friday. We decided to go out to dinner with friends to celebrate getting our taxes done and in the mail (with positive outcomes). They stopped by our condo for cocktails and them we walked to Hinterland - a truly class experience . . . and the second floor bar. . . so Chicago! Saturday night friends decide to go to Cafe Expresso for dinner with some other friends - they all stop by after dinner for coffee, wine and conversation! Tuesday morning - a Bayfest planning meeting. A nice brisk two block walk. I think I’ll stop at Bosse’s on the way and pick up a paper. On the way home I stop at my bank and take care of business. Wednesday - too tired to fix dinner. Think I’ll walk down to our (new) favorite sub shop a block and one half down Washington and get a Narmer.

This morning as we woke at five to get ready for work, we were treated to a sight that has yet to get old - watching a giant freighter pass within yards of our balcony after unloading its cargo somewhere up river. (there’s my wife, Kathy, who is eternally cold, standing out on our balcony in 43° weather, in her pajamas, to watch as it slipped silently and majestically in the predawn darkness through the Walnut Street bridge).Tonight there was an environmental social event called Green Drinks at Kavarna across the river. I’ll walk. Great conversation . . . and a great sandwich . . . and a great walk home under a crescent moon. Next week we’ll take in Frank’s show at the Meyer. It’s a three minute walk. Have to remember not to leave too early.

I almost forgot to mention the UW Madison alums meeting for post season Badger Blasts during the football and basketball seasons at Titletown Brewery - a short four block walk. Love the camaraderie, the marching band sound track, the Railyard brew and the two dollar brats. And, I put no one at peril as I walk home even if I had one too many of those Railyards. How great is that!

Tomorrow looks to be an outstanding spring day. I’ll probably join friends on the Fox River Trail right outside my “house” and bike to the D&G Restaurant in Greenleaf for breakfast. The 30 mile round trip means I can have two eggs over easy, hash browns, sausages and home made toast smothered in butter and not gain a pound! Things will only get better as the summer kicks into gear. Can’t wait to walk to International Bayfest; watch the 4th of July fireworks from our balcony and then make repeated visits to Art Street just a block away!

I do have one gripe. We need a good grocery store down town. Maybe Trader Joe’s will smile on us.
~Glenn

Here are a few links to current and proposed residential developments in Downtown Green Bay:

www.riverside-place.com

www.astorplacecondos.com

www.loftsontheriver.com

GBSurveyor

May 1st, 2007, 05:40 AM

Right now I give the two projects by Lambeau about a 10% and the downtown project about 40% of ever happening. I really don't see this big demand for condos in this area, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't there a few still available from the small project done by Vetter?
I really don't see either of the Lambeau projects happening anytime soon, unless there is heavy TIF, which wouldn't make any sense. As time continues to goes by I am losing faith in even Vetter making the Astor Place project a reality. I just really believe that the people that crave the urban environment just move to an established city with a vibrant urban place and well the rest of us have our own excuses. I also got the email from downtown Green Bay, inc, and to me that also sounds like a really pleasant lifestyle. Just a bit unrealistic when you throw some kids in the mix, not to mention the lack of free time. I also have a hard time trying to compare the river center project with a multi story tower. The reality of it is one of these projects will get built because I believe there is enough interest to fill one tower, but only time will tell. So I will sit patiently and wait, just as always.:cheers:

GBSurveyor

May 1st, 2007, 07:24 PM

http://www.ci.green-bay.wi.us/artwork/bellin_flagpole.jpg

as posted on the city's website

Bellin Building owners continue in their efforts of restoration of the historic building. The aging flagpole atop the building was replaced with a new state-of-the-art pole anchored into the concrete flooring. Washington Street was closed for the mounting. The flag will fly day and night lighted at the base. This is a continuation of the redevelopment efforts of the group starting with the cleaning of the exterior earlier this year along with restoration of the exterior lighting. Resortation continues on the interior of the building.

Have any of the downtown workes noticed this yet or is it a subtle addition?

downtownVital.org

May 1st, 2007, 07:51 PM

...correct me if I am wrong, but aren't there a few still available from the small project done by Vetter?

From their website (http://loftsontheriver.com/htm/pricing.htm), it looks like two units remian, which is remarkably few if you ask me.

CivicMinded

May 1st, 2007, 11:40 PM

^^definitely remarkable that this many sold!

Why?
Because A) There ain't much to the downtown yet but a lot of run down junk;

B) Not many people like the looks of this boxy style of modern architecture. A lot of people think this place is downright ugly

C) People have a doom & gloom attitute about downtown, so it's hard to justify spending triple figures on a 'home' like this in this area.

Now, Astor Place will be much much nicer in the way it's designed, the way it looks, the prestige of it, and so on. Plus if they can get that boardwalk done, the whole river front in this area will be a drastically nicer neighborhood to live in. There's really no doubt in my mind that Astor Place will sell. It's just slow in getting off the drawing board and into reality because so many people are all pessimistic & doom & gloom around here about anything new & exciting abuot the downtown. Once it's built, and the baordwalk is built, they will come. And it willd raw other new developments. hopefully the old places like the Stein will also be reborn.

downtownVital.org

May 2nd, 2007, 03:12 AM

^^ Riverfront Lofts aren't the greatest to look at from the outside, but they are pretty dang impressive from the inside. That's a building that, for better or worse, was designed from the inside out.

I agree with your analysis of Astor Place. If they can get over the final few pre-sales needed to get to construction, I think it will sell out or close to it pretty easily. The challenge is getting those final few pre-sales.

Bay2Bay

May 3rd, 2007, 05:09 AM

Development plan OK'd for Larsen site

The Green Bay City Council on Tuesday approved a plan that will allow On Broadway Inc. to buy and develop the former Larsen Canning Co. site.

Some aldermen balked at the idea of the city guaranteeing $3 million of $4 million in loans from M&I Bank for the project. But after hearing in closed session from Mayor Jim Schmitt about potential tenants in the project, the council voted overwhelmingly in favor of it. Aldermen Andy Nicholson and Gary Kriescher cast the only dissenting votes.

Under the agreement, the bank will assume risk for the remaining $1 million. It will have a mortgage that will be paid off before the guaranteed loan. The guaranteed loan cannot be paid off before seven years in any case.

In return, the city will receive accelerated payments — after loans are accounted for — to recover tax increment finance district assistance to the project. In addition, the mayor would appoint three of the six members of a governing board to oversee the development. On Broadway will appoint the other three members.

The city can assume the loans and take over the property if On Broadway falls two months or more behind in its payments.

On Broadway will use about $3.5 million of the loans to acquire the property. It will repay the loans and TIF money through leases and property sales.

— Paul Srubas/Press-Gazette

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070502/GPG0101/705020667/1207

Puant

May 8th, 2007, 06:13 AM

GBFAN

May 8th, 2007, 08:54 PM

There was some activity around the old Younkers building today, people were walking around the building inspecting it and discussing plans. I wasn't quite nosy enough to butt in and ask what they were up to though.
Not much else seems to be going on downtown.
Well at least I guess that is something that someone was down at the Youkers Site poking around. I had figured both of these projects were dead by now.

GBSurveyor

May 9th, 2007, 01:23 AM

I thought that the river center needed like 10% spent by May 1 to follow the Wheda rules...

Green Bay roots

May 9th, 2007, 03:51 AM

Green Bay
Meyer Theatre Deciding Future of Vacant Building

May 8, 2007 03:16 PM

By Andrew Fefer

Later this month, the Meyer Theatre Board of Directors is expected to announce plans for the property next door to the theater, the vacant Daily Planet restaurant. Plans could involve knocking down the old building and starting from scratch.

Theater board president Paul Jadin confirms, "There are plans, yes." He's hoping those plans will help alleviate the downtown Green Bay theater's debt, which stands at more than three million dollars.

"When you own a property right next to the theater and that property has the potential to deliver revenue in terms of sales, rentals, and our own use with respect to perhaps rehearsals and wedding receptions and those sorts of things, then we have to consider that, and that's basically what we'll be announcing," Jadin says.

Right now, there's hardly anything inside the old restaurant, and theater management wouldn't even let us inside, saying that it's in such bad shape right now it's unsafe to be in.

The general manager of the theater, Matt Goebel, says he's seen drawings of a major, multi-story reconstruction project. He says the plans call for a facility with a vintage look that would help to revitalize one of the busiest corners in downtown Green Bay.

"You don't want to lose a lot of the architecture that's with the theater, so I think they want to incorporate some of that," Goebel says.

Jadin says the board of directors also looked at selling the property for use as a nightclub or a restaurant.

He's just optimistic about what could come of a property that's currently used for nothing at all. "Not even storage. We gutted it a while back and it's ready to be renovated or torn down, and we'll be announcing exactly where we're headed in the very near future.

GBSurveyor

May 9th, 2007, 07:05 AM

gbgoose

May 9th, 2007, 07:15 PM

"RDA OKs tax-finance districts for two Green Bay areas

Military Avenue generates concerns

By Richard Ryman
rryman@greenbaypressgazette.com

The Redevelopment Authority on Tuesday approved new tax-increment finance districts for North Webster Street and Military Avenue.

The Olde North district, No. 15 for the city, includes an area north of University Avenue, east of North Quincy Street and generally west of Webster Street. It includes 325 parcels, about 100 of which are residential. The plan is that over time residential lots in the area will be converted to commercial and light industrial uses.

The Military Avenue district, No. 16 for the city, is from Langlade Avenue to Bond Street. It has 151 parcels, 82 percent of which are commercial property. The plan is to improve Military Avenue as a commercial and retail district.

In a tax-increment finance district, new taxes generated by improvements within the district can be used by the city to finance improvements and other projects.

Public hearings were held before the votes on the districts, with the Military Avenue plan drawing the most comment.

Michael Cuene, an owner of Broadway Ford-Jeep of Green Bay, formerly Van Boxtel Ford, 1010 S. Military Ave., argued that the tax-increment finance district should extend to Lombardi Avenue instead of ending at Langlade Avenue.

Cuene said there needs to be more businesses at the intersection of Military Avenue and Lombardi Avenue to attract customers to Military.

"I don't think the residential buffer will be an invitation to anyone going north," he said.

"There are a lot of great homes in that area, but I'm just looking at what will keep the business part going. Signage is nice, but it doesn't get the job done."

Cuene said his company invested $1 million into the Van Boxtel property, but will feel compelled to move the business if improvements to Military Avenue don't draw more traffic.

"I don't want to move, but we have to go where the business goes," he said.

Ed Martin, owner of H.J. Martin & Son Inc., said he was concerned that proposals to narrow Military Avenue would not improve matters.

He said he feels he and Cuene, two of the largest property owners on the street, have not been involved enough in planning.

Derek Lord, business development specialist for the city, said all property owners are encouraged to participate in the district's steering committee.

He said street redesign plans have not been finalized.

Military Avenue is scheduled for reconstruction from Dousman Street to West Mason Street in 2009 and West Mason Street to Langlade Avenue in 2010.

RDA members Aldermen Tom Weber and Jim Blumreich agreed that more needs to be done to attract traffic into Green Bay.

"We do not put out the welcome mats," Weber said.

The tax-increment finance proposal now goes to the City Council for approval.

Also Tuesday, the authority selected Habitat for Human-ity to carry out a redevelopment project along Sixth Street in the Tank Park Neighborhood. Habitat proposes to build up to 11 new houses along a short stretch of Sixth Street near a railroad switching yard.

RDA selected Family Services of Northeast Wisconsin Inc. to receive a Community Development Block Grant Juvenile Crime Prevention allocation of $10,000.
"

This is nice in theory, but I agree the concerns are huge here. When veering off to Military Ave, the Lombardi Ave district should be booming with business and retail that surround Lambeau Field, not a residential area - then the Military Ave business district. Also start renovating the buildings around Lombardi away from the majority of run-down buildings that don't really measure up to the newer structure at Lambeau.

The other point is good as well, there need to be several more avenues to bring traffic into Green Bay instead of pushing out to the suburban areas. What Green Bay really messed up on is not having a true freeway presence accessing downtown. Using 172 to Webster/Riverside or 43 via Webster is still too far off.

I hope the Captain's Walk Winery goes well. That could be a nice addition to downtown.

Geography Teacher

May 9th, 2007, 09:49 PM

The other point is good as well, there need to be several more avenues to bring traffic into Green Bay instead of pushing out to the suburban areas. What Green Bay really messed up on is not having a true freeway presence accessing downtown. Using 172 to Webster/Riverside or 43 via Webster is still too far off.

I agree that downtown is not well connected to the freeway system but I really don't know how that ever could have happened with the existing land use. I wonder if the fact that there is a significant river dissecting the city, one that is usually seen as a barrier as opposed to a resource, has anything to do with the less than suitable environment for a central freeway.

I think that by converting North Webster Avenue to a commercial thoroughfare it would make the I-43/Webster interchange a perceived downtown entry point. But then again, that exit is completely opposite from where the majority of vehicles enter the metropolitan area -- from US 41 in the southwest. No one will drive from the southwestern part of the metro all the way around to I-43 and Webster to get downtown, regardless of how that area is transformed.

The bottom line is that a vibrant downtown will draw people regardless of how they get there. We need that to happen first.

downtownVital.org

May 9th, 2007, 10:30 PM

The bottom line is that a vibrant downtown will draw people regardless of how they get there. We need that to happen first.

Exactly. People may perceive that it's too "difficult" to get downtown, but it really isn't more difficult to get downtown than it is to get to Bay Park. What they're really saying is that they don't feel there's anything downtown that makes it worthwhile to get there, while more people feel that Bay Park is worth the effort.

From any point in the city, it just isn't that far into downtown. Is it wise to make Webster more user-friendly? Sure. And Ashland Ave. is basically set off with frontage roads and everything, so I could see improving that to ease access from US-41 to not only downtown, but the mall and the stadium areas as well. Beyond that, I'm not sure it's a great idea to funnel everyone onto one or two arteries into downtown. Velp, Shawano, W. Mason, Ashland, Riverside, Webster, E. Mason, Main, and University all work pretty well as avenues into downtown, and people from various parts of town can all take differing routes. I'm fine with this.

Puant

May 9th, 2007, 11:47 PM

Good discussion

Maybe I'm way off base here, but it does seem to me that highways are a double-edged sword: On one hand, they help transport people quickly..

...but on the other hand, the wide high-speed freeways can also dissect neighborhoods and form barriers, cutting off one part of downtown from another. Mason St. and Ashland already sort of do this--it's tough to get from one side of the road to the other in some places where it's high speed, limited access. Freeways also tendency to decrease adjacent property values in older parts of the city, unless those adjacent properties tear down whatever was there historically and replace it with cheap strip-development inside a sea of parking. We saw that happen, too, along parts of Mason and even Webster & Walnut. These decreased property values adjacent to the highway have a tendency to spread like cancer and create 'bad' neighborhoods quite far in & away from the highway. This amounts to ruin of a lot of land use. Unless you count more gas station convenience stores & cash stores as "progress". Are more parking lots, strip stores, and vacant parcels really more valuable than the quaint well-built historic structures & neighborhoods we already have downtown?

THis has happened in a lot of other cities where freeways were crammed through downtowns, you've all witnessed this I'm sure. Most cities seem to be shying away from downtown freeways, and treating downtown not as a typical suburb, but rather as a place that works much better as dense developments with grid street patterns and maybe even transit instead of fast high-speed freeways & big parking lots that cause more problems than they solve.

Green Bay 4 Life

May 10th, 2007, 12:42 AM

All right, let me get ready. A couple afternoon beers and a lot of thinking and I mount on top of my soapbox with a legion of members to pick apart everything I say. Not trying to be negative, but away we go...

:soapbox:

I am not taking one side of the issue or the other but since there is somewhat of a lull in the downtown development news going on currently, I thought I would raise a question or two and provide some insight of thoughts I have been having lately...

Vetter = Good for Downtown Green Bay?

As we turn the calendar into May and soon will be looking June square in the mouth (which in my regards is prime construction months here in Good ole' Green Bay) the Flately Site (proposed location of Astor Place), the Younkers site (proposed location of the River Center), and Site 4 (proposed location of the future "Green Bay's tallest building") sit vacant, undeveloped, unredeveloped, and all too eerily quiet as they have for so many years. Why?

Is it the City of Green Bay's fault? The City Council's fault? Is it the market for downtown living? Or is it, quite possibly and to some unfathomably, J. Vetter's fault? Maybe fault is too harsh. Doings, shortcomings, or effort may be better suited to these questions...

Well, the City of Green Bay straightened Washington Street in preparation of Astor Place. The City of Green Bay brokered a deal to remove the Mall overpass utilizing their own funds set for other neighborhood enhancement funding. The development agreements were passed by City Council and await to be fulfilled by the commitments of J. Vetter to build what he said he would. Yet we wait. Patiently. :wallbash: To a point.

So is it the Council? Well, they have more important issues to deal with such as the sex offender ordinance, illegal immigration, and if we can have 3 ounces of beer in a grocery store while we are mulling over what sixer to drink this weekend... Real hot topic issues, rather than just asking "what the h-e-double hockey sticks is going on and when is something going to happen?" Seems too easy right? Who gives a rip about downtown and strengthening the core, when some kid is watching his dad drink in a grocery store rather than on the couch with one hand on the remote and the other in a Funyons Bag.

So, it has to be the market... Possibly. A good argument. A quick glance at the availability pages of local condo developments and one would see that the Riverfront Lofts has two units available. So pretty good. But what about the proposed developments? Well, Astor who knows. They took down that page long ago and have yet to update it. The Legacy Development across from Lambeau Field indicates 5 units reserved. But again, has this been updated recently? It has been this number for months. The Prestige Development is quite new, having been just announced - so as of yet no units have been reserved. The Riverside Place Condos still are accepting leases for apartments prior to conversion to condos, so hard to tell. Lastly, a new development in Ashwaubenon (12 story tower) with mixed use and possible residential condos was recently announced. No website yet, so unable to even see any data - but wasn't this supposed to start construction a couple months ago???

I do remember a time, long long ago - when the Astor website indicated over 60% of the units had been reserved. Then a mighty fine idea was hatched to increase the number of units and reconfigure the floor plans - and the number dropped to where it was recently and stayed. Less than 40%. Quite a jump. Now, a lack of updating may prove me wrong and what not - but when is the last time anyone saw an ad for Astor in the paper or heard anything about it at all for that matter? No one except us is really publicly speaking about it, and who listens to us anyway?

So, based on what I’ve said above. No it can't be. Impossible. Could it be Vetter? Now this isn't intended to be a bash fest on Johnny. But I am just raising some questions that I really feel are valid and should be answered so the concerned public can be in the know. :lol:

First of all, I digress. Riverfront Lofts. What is done is done. A successful project? Yes for the most part. It got people to drop a lot of money and move downtown. Cool. What has changed? Nothing. Attractive? Well... To some. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To some it is not so much. IMO, exterior wise the finish materials are atrocious, the attention to detail is awful, the balconies have some weird stains on them, and there are white trash bags flapping in the wind on the roof? What the hell is that? On top of it, it is virtually black at night. :? Now I am not saying, light it up like a Christmas tree, but something similar to what was done at Riverside Place Condos would be appropriate I feel and probably relatively inexpensive. Lastly, on the topic of RFL, I am all for modernizing the downtown skyline, but some say what was shown in the renderings and models is no where near what the reality is of that building sitting on the waterfront. Not much can be done now, except maybe the lighting, doing something with the white sheets on the roof, and adding some landscaping around the garage door and front entrance. But I am being too picky right?

Now back to my point. Astor Place. As mentioned above the street is done, the relocation of the utilities is done, the dismantling of the fountain is done, the development agreement is done, and at a time the reservation percentage was way over what was needed. Yet, again the waiting game. I'm sure those who reserved units are more than happy to sit and wait. Maybe they will get to move in sometime around 2025. Now, all of a sudden River Center is put on the fast track to start before Astor. Okay. Development agreement is done for that one too. Mall overpass is scheduled or at least can come down, WHEDA credits have been secured and announced almost a year ago. And we are still sitting here. Speaking of the WHEDA Credits, did anyone see 2007 Credit recipients? Nothing in Green Bay, although two projects applied. The Gorman project in the Larsen redevelopment, and another proposal on Main Street near the Greyhound Station. Could the lack of progress on River Center be the reason these projects did not get the opportunity at credits? Who knows? Plus, the last "rough" rendering on the elevations for River Center posted here were less than spectacular, even with a little fine tuning. Again, my opinion.

So you look and see the developments done by Vetter in Milwaukee, mainly residential and in the beerline neighborhood. Very cool architecture. So there may be hope for future buildings. What I've seen maybe not. I hope we are not sitting here when Astor goes up (or should I say "if") and say "wow that doesn't look anything like the rendering". Hmmm, not as dramatic. Why is Green Bay potentially treated like a 2nd class city when it comes to architecture? Also, has Vetter done projects with retail and office components? Does he have good contacts or a good track record attracting these types of tenants? Another point. Is there some type of expiration of the development agreements that he needed to start by a certain point? Is the City enforcing this?

Lastly, I come to Site 4. It was indicated by Vetter in an interview with a fellow member posted to this site that no one likes that site for a development in terms of what the City wants and the office market is soft. Kind of weird that most of the major office buildings in downtown Green Bay are either at or near capacity. There also was a year option on that site granted, what a year ago and required two sixth month updates to gauge progress. Has anyone seen an update to the RDA from Vetter on the progress of Site 4 since the GB Press-Gazette reported this story about a year ago?

Is it maybe time to give someone else ***gasp*** a shot? Or does the City feel Vetter would pull all his plans if they started asking him to live up to what he said he would do? Did Vetter want control of that site so that no other developments could be proposed by other that would directly compete with his proposals in terms of residential units sales, lease space opportunities, and TIF money? Isn't competition good? Is he even really trying to market this site with all that he has going on here and in Milwaukee? Maybe if "Joe Blow Corporation or Retail store" doesn't want to deal with Vetter but wants to be on the waterfront, what other choices do they have? None. He controls from bridge to bridge on the east side of downtown.

I think if we had another "Good Morning Downtown" meeting and he gave the same speech he has been giving for over a year now, and with nothing happening - he would get booed off stage. I know starting over is not an attractive option. But how much longer is too long to give one person the opportunity to do something with 3 major sites downtown? Can he do it, or is he over his head? Am I overreacting? Does anyone care?

Again, I am not intending to be negative. It is hard to develop in downtown Green Bay, as the current state of downtown clearly shows. Someone just needs to step up and lay the truth out there, state the facts, and let's have a drop dead date established. The rest of downtown may be waiting on these proposals to start coming around.

Be that as it may, I hope he pulls it off. I hope that we can say it was worth the wait in terms of architecture and the uses and users that go in. But holding my breath is starting to get old.

Well, that is all. Hope to start some type of debate. I am not right on everything and am not saying I am. Just questions posed while we wait.

I now turn around and quietly step off my soapbox to have another beer. Just not in a grocery store...

:cheers:

Puant

May 10th, 2007, 01:22 AM

^^dude. Probably one of the best posts EVER on Green Bay's SSC forum!

You make many, many good points, all of which are worth reading, re-reading, and laughing in between. The white "trash bags" on the roof of RFL crack me up. I noticed that too. I guess when you design from the inside out, you can leave the trash on the outside. Sorry, not meant to be a slam.

I have to sit back, savor my beer (which I didn't yet get to sample before buying, but luckily I've done a lot of beer sampling already in my life) and scratch my chin and think to myself, "Is the downtown not progressing because it's just too **%cked up for enough people to care?"

I care. You care. But isn't it crazy that more people don't care?

Green Bay roots

May 10th, 2007, 01:44 AM

the astor place website is back up for availability and i see there is a lot more pending sales to include 2 on the top floor. encouraging but is it promising?

titletown

May 10th, 2007, 02:23 AM

I agree that downtown is not well connected to the freeway system but I really don't know how that ever could have happened with the existing land use. I wonder if the fact that there is a significant river dissecting the city, one that is usually seen as a barrier as opposed to a resource, has anything to do with the less than suitable environment for a central freeway

I really think they should plan to convert Ashland to a highway at 55 mph w/ overpasses from Hwy 41 all the way to W. Mason and then have an interchange at W. Mason & Ashland. You could just about get from 41 to W. Mason via Ashland in 5 minutes without the annoying stoplights. That is what I would do. There is no way you can make W. Mason and E. Mason a regular hwy because of the way everything is built close to the street. Going across the Fox River on Mason is a mess because they have all those annoying exits and you cannot even see the cars merge into your lane. Just my opinion....will it happen? never anytime soon, but once the downtown gets better there will have to be easier access then having to go thru 10 or more lights to get there. I live maybe 10 minutes from downtown and I go anyways.

downtownVital.org

May 10th, 2007, 05:30 PM

Also, has Vetter done projects with retail and office components? Does he have good contacts or a good track record attracting these types of tenants?

I think the answer to this is no. My impression is that Vetter has included commercial space in River Center becuase he has to, but that's almost an afterthought for him.

Lastly, I come to Site 4. It was indicated by Vetter in an interview with a fellow member posted to this site that no one likes that site for a development in terms of what the City wants and the office market is soft. Kind of weird that most of the major office buildings in downtown Green Bay are either at or near capacity.

To be fair, there's a huge difference between a signature office building on site 4 and any other office space that's been developed recently. Take for example Johnson Bank, Nicolet Bank, and Baylake Bank. All of these have been highly successful. The difference is that in the case of each, they anchor tenant was the bank that built them. Could Nicolet Bank have been built without Nicolet Bank? Probably not. Then figure that a building on site 4 is probably as big as all three of these combined, and that's tough to get done. At any rate, I'm happy to keep site 4 on the back burner for now, as I'd rather see people buying space in the potential Daily Planet site building.

As for the larger comments on Vetter, I'd say they are entirely warranted at this point. I've not given up hope yet, but there's a lot that seems odd about all of this, and in the absence of any real progress, how can supporters not get frustrated!

I really think they should plan to convert Ashland to a highway at 55 mph w/ overpasses from Hwy 41 all the way to W. Mason and then have an interchange at W. Mason & Ashland.

Agreed, this is my exception to the "we don't need a freeway to downtown" idea, becuase Ashland is sort of like a freeway already, but a crappy one with all sorts of lights. It seems to me that going downtown would be more attractive to folks from Appleton if it was as easy as possible to get there, and in the end downtown Green Bay needs to be a regional draw.

GBSurveyor

May 10th, 2007, 08:07 PM

the astor place website is back up for availability and i see there is a lot more pending sales to include 2 on the top floor. encouraging but is it promising?

The insider news sounds positive with the RC and AP projects...

Astor Place Partners are the owners of the Flatley Site and there is work still progressing.

The Rivercenter also should start up soon, I spoke with a friend in the construction business and there was a demo bid put out to start by June 1.

So maybe just maybe we will soon have something to look foward to.

I am also on board to convert Ashland to a Very limited expressway, maybe similar to CE on the east side of Appleton. The infastructure is mostly in place, a few diamond interchanges would really help the few intersections that cause the problems that due occur. It is not like Ashland is the pedestrian friendally corridor that the City is trying to promote anyways.

If I could add another wish is that Military Ave could get an access point on I43. Maybe just northbound off and southbound on since it is tight going north anyways.

Geography Teacher

May 10th, 2007, 08:38 PM

gbgoose

May 10th, 2007, 09:23 PM

I forgot all about Ashland -- It does have a wide enough footprint to take on freeway or at least expressway form. It might alleviate some of the heavy traffic counts on 41 and 172 and Mason Street. But that's pretty far in the future, after downtown morphs into a bigger destination.

I wonder which route is shorter to downtown right now -- getting off 41 on Ashland in De Pere, or staying on 41 and taking Mason. If Ashland is faster we should sign that underused exit as the exit for downtown Green Bay and lower traffic counts on 41 on the west side of Green Bay.

It depends on the traffic lights. With all lights being green by the time you pass through, I'd say Ashland is quicker merely because of the extra 5 miles you'd have to drive on 41 to get to Mason, then over to downtown. On Ashland, I've seen enough people drive 55-60 (in a 45) to where they'd get to downtown relatively quick.

downtownVital.org

May 10th, 2007, 10:18 PM

^^ I once drove from a soccer game out off Scheuring Rd., down 41, down Ashland, over Mason St. to my old house over by Kroll's East without having to stop at a single stop light. Oh what a glorious day that was...

Puant

May 10th, 2007, 11:51 PM

I agree that Ashland, since it's already somewhat of a highway, could be made into a faster corridor by eliminating some or all of the stoplights.

However, the best way to do this might be to 'think outside of the box' and consider high-capacity roundabouts. (I know this is kind of a dirty word, but that attitude is changing. The more I study roundabouts the more they make sense. Consider:

1) Traffic keeps moving, you never stop. You slow down but still far more throughput than pretty much any other type of interchange because you never stop moving..not quite as fast as a diamond but with that yous till need stoplights, and other infrastructure that costs A LOT more money

Not only do they make sense in terms of traffic flow & budget, but they're also a heck of a lot better lookign than other interchanges. You can put some really nice plantings and such in the middle.

Just a thought.. Everyone likes to scoff at roundabouts but when you think about them with an open mind, they do make a lot of sense.

Actually I think Ashland is already getting a roundabout at that nasty wierd intersection farther south.

GBSurveyor

May 11th, 2007, 07:48 PM

I totally agree about installing roundabouts. I drive down Lineville on the Howard / Suamico line and traffic flows very smoothly, it would be better if more people knew how to drive them, but it really is amazing how many cars can flow through, many without stopping. I am not really sure if I would like to try to cross as a pedestrian, but I am sure it is done and works fine.

I have driven a few 2 lane roundabouts and they really are somewhat confusing, specially when people don't know much about them.

I have also noticed that heavy industry tends to favor signalized intersections vs roundabouts. I can imagine that it is more difficult and more time consuming for a semi drive to pull out in one these modern traffic devices. Ashland Ave carries a ton of truck traffic. I was doing a little searching in regards to high capacity roundabouts and there really are very few to be found, they are becoming more numerous.

Here is a link I found with some good info... if you are looking for some reading.
Link (http://www.teachamerica.com/roundabouts/RA057B_ppr_Stanek.pdf)

downtownVital.org

May 11th, 2007, 11:25 PM

So, I needed some campus photos for a brochure that I'm putting together. I took this from the Cofrin Arboretum Tower. It's not an uncommon view, but things were looking nice out there today.

http://www.uwgb.edu/moored/campus.jpg

Puant

May 12th, 2007, 12:41 AM

mgk920

May 12th, 2007, 04:57 AM

^^Sure is nice that everything is all green again! Do you have any pictures of the new athletic facility out there at UWGB that you can post? I've only seen it from a distance, but it looks great from what I saw.

As for the Demo of the Younkers building-
I'm excited to see the site redeveloped, yet I always have mixed feelings when a historic structure like that is razed. Prior to my blog crapping out on me, I had started to collect some info. on the old Younkers building (the white part with the bricked in windows). THat building has so much history. I t was such a social center for this city for so long. Everyone knows about the Christmas window tradition that used to be there. But there's more. For example: Did you know that it was in this building that Lombardi agreed to become a Packer? Yep, Lombardi met with the Packer Board in this building, and he made the decision right in there. Not that the building had anything to do with it. But, that was the site anyway. I had been planning to collect more of these sorts of historic facts, and post them on the blog, then it died. I guess I'd like to see the Historical Society or someone with more knowledge still do a write-up of this building, maybe post some of the pictures of it in it's heyday, that sort of thing, prior to it being demoed. It doesn't have to go down completely unceremoniously.
It is always sad when a building with potential uses left (or at least apparently left) in them are demoed, but unfortunately for the former Prange's store, its wood-pile foundation is starting to rot away and it will likely become structurally unsound within a few years. I can't even begin to imagine the cost of replacing that while retaining the building.

How many in here know that a common-carrier freight railroad once passed right through it? Prior to all of the railroad mergers and so forth, Milwaukee Road used what was called their 'Alley Track' to get between their yard on the south side and the P&G area. It used that alley 'hole' in it.. Also, IIRC, that track was abandoned in the late 1970s.

I can see good things coming from the site, though.

Mike

downtownVital.org

May 14th, 2007, 07:34 PM

Do you have any pictures of the new athletic facility out there at UWGB that you can post? I've only seen it from a distance, but it looks great from what I saw.

Walked over at lunch today and took a few. You can't get around too much yet, but you can get in to see some things. It should be really nice when it's done.

http://www.uwgb.edu/moored/kress1.jpg
The outside of the main gym.

http://www.uwgb.edu/moored/kress2.jpg
The area around the enterance that students will use to get at the facilities (I believe there's another enterance on the other side that will be used for access to events).

http://www.uwgb.edu/moored/kress3.jpg
The main hallway. The new gyms will be on the right, and athletics offices on the left.

http://www.uwgb.edu/moored/kress4.jpg
I think this is the main area for weights and fitness equipment. There's a track circling above as well.

Geography Teacher

May 14th, 2007, 09:06 PM

^^ Thanks Dan. The new facility looks pretty tight. Too bad Kevin Borseth won't be using it.

And too bad it's another Green Bay asset found outside of downtown (yes I realize it should be on campus).

Green Bay roots

May 15th, 2007, 01:21 AM

well i have been getting ever so curious as to what is going on with river center and here is the answer straight from the horses mouth (John Veter)

"We closed on the Younkers property on Friday. The City is holding a press conference this Thursday at 2:00 to announce the transaction as well as the new location of the Children’s Museum. It will be held in front of Younkers on Washington Street. Abatement begins by June first with demolition and construction to follow immediately afterwards.

Please plan to read an accurate update on RiverCenter this week."

GBFAN

May 15th, 2007, 01:55 AM

GB Roots- thanks for the update, It is nice to hear Vetter is going to get going! I am curios how is the comment from the horses mouth? Did you run into him on the street?

Green Bay roots

May 15th, 2007, 03:51 AM

GBFAN

May 16th, 2007, 03:07 AM

no....i live in omaha nebraska now...i have his e-mail address and i e-mail him periodically if the direct of construction seems to be falling and i want to see what is really going on. but yes this was the e-mail that he sent me back

Thanks for the Information, I look forward to the announcement. Did Vetter's email go into Astorplace at all? The last start I saw on the forum was May 1?

Green Bay roots

May 16th, 2007, 01:49 PM

Developer acquires Younkers building

Riverfront progress moves to new phase

By Richard Ryman
rryman@greenbaypressgazette.com

The next phase of Green Bay's riverfront development will begin June 1 with the environmental abatement of the former Younkers department store.

Project developer John Vetter said his company acquired the property on Friday.

A news conference with representatives of the Children's Museum of Green Bay and the city is scheduled for 2 p.m. Thursday at South Washington and Pine streets, Vetter said.

The Children's Museum will buy part of what is called the River Center project for its new $2.2 million home. Vetter said the museum plans a grand opening for fall 2008.

River Center also will include rental lofts, condominiums, retail and possibly office spaces. In November, the City Council approved dividing the project into two phases. The first, with the lofts and condos, will be worth $23 million.

The rental lofts will be developed by Stone House Development of Madison. The Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority awarded $7.5 million in tax credits to help finance the $10 million rental lofts project, which will set units aside for people with a low to moderate incomes.

The second phase, valued at $5 million to $17 million, depends on whether an office user signs on as a tenant.

Vetter said a complicated demolition project will follow the environmental abatement. Plans call for keeping two parts of the existing Younkers building while removing the rest. The walkway over South Washington Street connecting Washington Commons to the building will be removed as well.

Also, Vetter plans to build a 17-story mixed-use tower on the adjacent property to the north of the Younkers building. He said sales of condominium units in Astor Place continue.

"We are hopeful that by mid- to end of summer we'll start construction," Vetter said. "We have quite a few people on the fence. I think what they are waiting for is to see if this is going to happen."

gbgoose

May 16th, 2007, 05:20 PM

They announced this on channel 2 last night as well.

It will be great to see this project finally moving along. That area area along the river is sad to look at from Titletown Brewery with it not lit up.

downtownVital.org

May 16th, 2007, 07:24 PM

First, GB roots broke this story well ahead of the media, thanks!

Presuming this does now go ahead, this is huge news. Personally, I think Astor Place will make a bigger statement about how things are changing downtown, but at the same time I think River Center is the more important project. Getting the new Children's Museum downtown is very big. Plus, just getting this propert redevolped is an enormous challenge, much more so than the Astor Place site.

Hopefully the building will look nice, but that aside, Vetter Denk deserves a ton of credit for being able to pull this off. When you factor in the cost of buying the property, the cost of abatement and demolition, the cost of providing parking, the cost of dealing with the mall conncetion, plus the normal costs associated with any construction project of this size -- that's a huge undertaking. It is by no means guaranteed someone was going to be able to come along and develop this without a large investment from the city. So, a lot of credit should go to not only Vetter and his team but to the folks at the city how have worked together to find a way to make this feasable. I can't wait to see a finished project there!

CivicMinded

May 17th, 2007, 02:29 AM

Fall 2008 opening! better get started now

Puant

May 18th, 2007, 01:30 AM

Children's Museum is First Tenant of Downtown Vision

May 17, 2007 06:13 PM CDT

By Emily Matesic

After years of planning and hours of discussions, hand prints made by children during a ceremony Thursday morning mark the beginning of Green Bay's river redevelopment project.

The new Children's Museum of Green Bay announced it's one of the first confirmed tenants ready to move into the River Center downtown.

But the building it will call home doesn't look much like the buildings on the site today. We're told only the north part of the former Younkers department store building will remain when the redevelopment begins.

Green Bay Mayor Jim Schmitt ceremoniously handed the keys to the former Younkers building to Milwaukee developer John Vetter.

The deal to turn the old department store into a new town square has been signed, sealed, and delivered.

"To actually have the title transfer and keys handed over, this is John's property right now and he needs to get working on it and get tenants, and he signed a great tenant today."

The new children's museum isn't the only tenant expected to move into the River Center. Vetter also plans to build apartments, condos, restaurants, and shops on the waterfront.

"It really is a huge part of the three- to four-year vision that was set out by the City of Green Bay," Vetter said. "The waterfront vision, the boardwalk, the whole idea of bringing people back downtown, creating a center, creating a hub of activity, a new town square. I think that's the significance of the River Center project."

Internal asbestos removal could start as early as next week. Demolition and construction of new buildings could begin this summer.

Notice this article says "only the north part of the building will remain". That would mean the taller brown-brick part would come down. So either WBAY heard this wrong, or there's been a change of plans and the old brown-brick part is coming down. I'd lean toward the former. How about you?

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/FutureGreenBayRiverfront.jpg

GBSurveyor

May 18th, 2007, 04:22 AM

Notice this article says "only the north part of the building will remain". That would mean the taller brown-brick part would come down. So either WBAY heard this wrong, or there's been a change of plans and the old brown-brick part is coming down. I'd lean toward the former. How about you?

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/FutureGreenBayRiverfront.jpg[/IMG]
My belief of the project was that the Children's Museum would occupy a portion of the former 'white' portion of the Younkers complex. Pine St @ Washington, I believe that this is the wood structure that is crumbling. The brown part is newer and has decent footings and can be added onto. The north part 'newer white brick' is to be striped of the the bricks and extened towards the river. That is what I seem to recall. I however am not sure if the plans have changed and maybe this is no longer the case. Either way this is amazing that something is going to happen. I really like the Appleton Childrens Museum, but it will be nice finally having our own in Green Bay.

downtownVital.org

May 18th, 2007, 06:27 PM

Look at the rendering, there's no way that isn't the brown part but added on to. The description of what will be happening is how GBSurveyor stated, and I'm hearding that things are trending to stay similar to that rendering rather than much significant change. The historic part will go (sad, huh) and have the Children's Museum and lobby space on the first floor, with the parking above that. The northern half of the north portion will stay, and be extended towards the river and up. The southern half of that same portion will come down. The brown part will remain structurally and be added to as you see in the rendering.

As an aside, I haven't looked at that rendering in a while. I have to say, it's growing on me. Depending on what materials they use, it could turn out really nice. I've seen renderings for the red part and the basic shape is similar but somewhat more simple, but I think the materials on much of the facade may be a bit more interesting. It's kind of a plain building though. I don't think it will win any awards, but I don't think it will offend anyone either. If the rest of River Center turns out then I think it will be fine.

Bartles53

May 18th, 2007, 06:57 PM

Funny, I was about to admonish Puant for ruining my high by posting this rendering of River Center. It still pains me that the centerpiece of downtown is going to look more like the drawing shown above, rather than the original rendering (which can be seen in the interactive section of Dan's DowntownVital website). The original drawing was just so much cooler. Anyway, my hope is that the final product turns out a little better than the drawing and in 30 years we'll still be admiring the complex. What buoys my spirits a bit is that the Astor Place building looks much more lame in this drawing than it does on the Astor Place website. I'm optimistically guessing that this drawing just gives a bad impression of what will be.

Speaking of Astor Place, someone had mentioned recently that the price list is back up. If you combine the sold, reserved and pending units, over 50% of the building is spoken for (in reality who knows how many of the reserved and pending units are realistically off the market). And shockingly, 2 of the penthouse units are pending. Dollar wise there's a long way to go as floors 12-16 are pretty bare but there's reason for optimism. After not checking out that website for a few months, I was once again almost stunned by that building. It's a very beautiful and inspiring structure. I'm really itching for the day that building begins to take shape. The city of Green Bay will be abuzz.

Bartles53

May 21st, 2007, 05:23 AM

From a story in the GBPG about a local software developer:

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070520/GPG03/705200636/1247

Posted May 20, 2007

Frozen Codebase emerges from incubator ready to fly

Green Bay company working on 2 games for Microsoft Xbox 360

By Nathan Phelps
nphelps@greenbaypressgazette.com

...

Sometime next month Frozen Codebase is looking at pulling up stakes in the Advance Business Development Center located at Northeast Wisconsin Technical College, 2701 Larsen Road, Green Bay, and moving to the former Larsen Canning Co. property on Broadway in downtown Green Bay.

While the lease is still being finalized, they have signed a letter of intent to move, Geisler said.

For Barb Fleisner, vice president of economic development with Advance Business Development Center, seeing Frozen Codebase leave is an example of how that resource is designed to work.

"They're a great success story and that's what business incubation is all about," she said. "While we hate to lose them … that's why we're here."

Fleisner said seven businesses are located in the assistance center.

Geisler said he hopes the move downtown not only bolsters the city, but lands the company a piece of real-estate they can call their own.

"It's going to be good to have our own place where potential new employees can come in and see our name outside," he said. "And kind feel like it's Frozen Codebase's turf."

The Broadway District is really becoming the hip place to be in Green Bay. Restaurants and cool upstarts are choosing that area. It's good to see people have faith in the downtown area. Now for the East side...

Puant

May 21st, 2007, 06:50 AM

^^that's cool. The first tenant for 'the Larsen site' that I know of.

The Broadway district is the cool part of the downtown. Sometimes I think it's kind of too bad the "East Side" is separated by a major river. Walking from the east side of the river to the west side is no big deal, an easy stroll across Main or Walnut St bridge...in the summertime at least. In inclimate weather, such as winter, when the cold winds blow, that walk across the river is brutal.

Which got me thinking about another wild idea...

I don't know the exact route of teh "Titletown Trolley", I think it stays mostly downtown, right? Maybe it plus another one like it could make a continuous loop route through the downtown (maybe it does?). Make it easier to jump on & off and get from the East side of the downtown to the West side (Broadway) & vice versa. Doesn't Appleton have a free bus that runs their downtown? Could the Titletown Trolley be made more attractive to ride, so that people don't have to depend on a car and parking so much and still easily get around the downtown? I think so.

downtownVital.org

May 21st, 2007, 03:25 PM

With all the talk about making Green Bay an attractive plae to attract existing business to (which is not unimportant), an article like that is a good reminder that in a community like ours creating new businesses is, in my mind, a more effective way to create jobs and growth. The fine folks over at the new Business Assistance Center, of which the business incubator is a part, do good work indeed, and this is another example.

GBSurveyor

May 24th, 2007, 05:59 AM

Which got me thinking about another wild idea...

I don't know the exact route of teh "Titletown Trolley", I think it stays mostly downtown, right? Maybe it plus another one like it could make a continuous loop route through the downtown (maybe it does?). Make it easier to jump on & off and get from the East side of the downtown to the West side (Broadway) & vice versa. Doesn't Appleton have a free bus that runs their downtown? Could the Titletown Trolley be made more attractive to ride, so that people don't have to depend on a car and parking so much and still easily get around the downtown? I think so.

I think that there has been talk of this before. I know of a few other larger cities have a free fare area in the CBD. Green Bay would be a perfect place for this with that large void created by the river. I think that it would need to circulate very frequently during specific hours (morning, lunch and end of workday) and then maybe a more relaxed schedule in those in between hours. We need to ramp up the density a bit more. I hope that with all the proposed new or redeveloped areas that we don't ever have to see a surface parking lot created to accommodate the almighty auto. As it stands now I really don't see it being feasible, also I am not sure how it would be funded.

Maybe this is just a cog in the overall revamping of the Metro that needs to take place. The way it is setup now the only way ridership is going to increase is if the price of gas goes up high enough that those just barley hanging on to their car are forced to give it up. I can hardly see an advantage to take the bus if it increases your travel time and is much more inconvenient then driving is. Anyone have any good ideas as way to increase the value of the Metro??? such as route restructuring, 2 hub system, express bus routes, increased limited service routes, service to the airport???

Sorry to break off on a tangent...

Geography Teacher

May 24th, 2007, 05:47 PM

Mayor seeking to encourage preservation

By Paul Srubas
psrubas@greenbaypressgazette.com

Four buildings in Green Bay are being honored this afternoon for their historical significance.

The Green Bay Historic Preservation Commission and Mayor Jim Schmitt will present bronze plaques to the owners of the buildings indicating that the building is a historic site and bearing the date of the building's original construction, said commission member Ian Griffiths, an architect with Berners-Schober Associates of Green Bay.

The purpose of the awards is to encourage preservation of old and architecturally interesting buildings in the city, Griffiths said.

The buildings being honored, and their historical significance, according to Griffiths:

The Bellin Building, corner of South Washington and East Walnut streets.

"It's one of the few Chicago-style architecture buildings in Green Bay," Griffiths said. "My understanding is, they're going to be doing work on it in the near future, and the intent is to try to capture it and give recognition before the work is done so that people understand the significance of the building."

500 Eliza St. Built in 1914, it's one of the first stucco houses in the city. The current owners did restoration work based on old photographs, and reconstructed a front porch to match the one that was originally on the building.

612 Stuart St., the former Grace Presbyterian Church. Built in 1910, it's being honored for adaptive reuse.

The building's current owners have transformed it into office space but restored and retained many of the original features.

"It still looks very much like a church, but they've created office space inside," Griffiths said.

902 S. Madison St. The mansion-style residential building was constructed in 1900 but restored for office use in a manner that preserves much of its original detail.

The awards program will take place at 6:30 p.m. at the Brown County Central Library auditorium, 515 Pine St.

The program will feature guest speaker Joe Lawniczak, a Green Bay native now serving as design specialist for the Wisconsin Main Street program.

The program also will feature a PowerPoint presentation on the buildings being honored. Refreshments will be served.

The general public is welcome to attend.

More kudos for the Bellin Building. If anyone is going, please report back!

downtownVital.org

June 1st, 2007, 10:18 PM

From today's "What's Up Downtown..."

Dust is flying inside the Bellin Building as interior demolition has started on the first two floors in preparation for the construction of a restaurant and coffee shop. The restaurant will be developed by Greg and Ann DeCleene of DePere. Opening is planned for August. It will be exciting to see the Bellin Building become activated in a part of downtown where things are really starting to evolve!.....More on that topic next week!

----------------

Note that Greg and Ann DeCleene are the owners of the Black & Tan Grilles in De Pere and Appleton. If you haven't eaten there... very nice indeed! So, I'd feel especially confident that a restaurant that they're opening would be well run and very nice. Yippee!!!!!!

Also, if you don't get the What's Up Downtown messages and would like to, contact Jeff Mirkes (mailto:JeffM@DowntownGreenBay.com) and he'll put you on the list.

Green Bay roots

June 2nd, 2007, 01:10 AM

Bartles53

June 2nd, 2007, 02:34 AM

I was in town over the long weekend and spoke with a realtor who sells/is going to sell units in Riverfront Lofts and Astor Place. She had some interesting things to say about River Center. I guess everything should be tempered by the fact that she is trying to make a sale so I’m not sure if the details are inside information or fluff that one would include in a sales pitch. Anyway off the top of my head here are some interesting points that she made:

- She mentioned that it’s looking likely that a high end hotel will go in at River Center. This was discussed in the early plans but that idea seemed to go the way of the white buffalo a few years ago. Sounds like it’s a real possibility again.

- River Center will have 2 high end restaurants overlooking the river – a steakhouse and a sushi restaurant.

- She had a chance to walk around in the old Younkers building and was raving about the interior of that structure. She mentioned the high ceilings and concrete floors and sounded very optimistic about how it would be incorporated into River Center.

- I mentioned that I was down on the new drawings of River Center. She is very high on how she expects that complex to turn out. She has a lot of faith that Vetter will make it into a cool building based on some her discussions with him and based on some of his other projects.

- She also mentioned the ice skating rink in front of River Center on the boardwalk. This is another idea that looked to be a no go shortly after it was introduced in the plan. The realtor seems to think that it’s still in the cards.

Again, I have no idea if this is real inside info or an empty sales pitch but I thought there was some interesting info that was appropriate for this forum.

Fillmore

June 2nd, 2007, 04:01 AM

According to money, GB saw a -5.7% loss in home prices last quarter. Bartles, you are definetely getting the run-around. The entire downtown vision is hype. The lofts were built, yes, but that's where it ends. A high end hotel in Green Bay with a sushi resaurant? All you need to make this work would be an influx of say 300,000 residents. Ain't happening...ever.

downtownVital.org

June 2nd, 2007, 08:57 PM

^^ Yes, becuase we all know there's a direct correlation between home prices and the success of sushi restaurants. I mean, is the housing market a concern as it realtes to the success of the riverfront? Sure. Do recent events in the market mean that River Center won't happen? Not necessarily. The property was purchased by Vetter, so it would seem that he's going to build there. Obviously it would be better to be building in a stronger market, but it's not as though there's no housing being built in Green Bay. The question will be if the product offered downtown is unique/attractive enough to be successful. I think we'll get the chance to find out. And all of this has zero to do with how successful a hotel or restaurants will be along the river. Keeping in mind that "high-end" is a relative term as applied to GB, a hotel could work fine, and so could a couple nice places to eat. Doesn't mean that either will necessarily happen, but if they don't it won't be because of the housing market or the population on the GB area (there are successful hotels and sushi restaurants in town, after all).

Fillmore

June 2nd, 2007, 09:36 PM

mgk920

June 3rd, 2007, 01:57 AM

Please excuse the candor. I was in town last week as well, abeit for a funeral, but downtown GB was a ghostown. There was little to no foot traffic during lunch (I ate at KaVarna) and the 5 minute train that went through caused a line of cars maybe thirty deep on either side of Walnut. And the price of homes does have a very direct correlation with whether or not people will purchase, especially in a region as depressed and blue collar as Green Bay. Sushi would go over in downtown like a fart in church: people would be attracted to the novelty, but it would wear off; the Weidner Center is proof of that. Or how about Gallagher's pizza, the huge investment that worked well for a short time and went under, just like Jillians. The downtown projects are certainly unique, but unique in this context means too expensive and not worthy of investement. It all looks really pretty on paper though. Sorry, I just call it like I see it.
The Wiedner Center lost most of its business when the PAC opened a couple of years ago in downtown Appleton. DT Green Bay and Port Plaza lost its retail core status to both Bay Park Square in suburban Ashwaubenon and the Fox River Mall in the Appleton area. DT GB still has some night life and the river is an aesthetic attraction, though.

I also get the 'sense' that the focus of life in the Green Bay area has shifted to the area along Oneida St between about US 41 and the Lambeau Field area in Ashwaubenon in recent years.

Man, what would metro Green Bay be like had the Packers not survived the 1920s....

:eek:

Mike

GBSurveyor

June 3rd, 2007, 02:01 AM

^^
Not to incite an argument, but last weekend was Memorial Day weekend. I would guess that 50% of the people that live in the area go someplace else. I was in Chicago, though I normally do go camping up in the north woods. Downtown Florence probably had more people in then downtown GB. Just to offer a comparison, my wife went to Bay Park last sunday and it was like East town mall normally is (ghost town). So in all actuality Downtown is normally dead anytime outside of normal business hours, but last weekend was probably more so, plus no one really lives near there. I am with Dan in thinking that there might just be a market for this, it is just that no one has tested it, I am sure someday something will happen.:cheers:

GBSurveyor

June 3rd, 2007, 02:12 AM

The Wiedner Center lost most of its business when the PAC opened a couple of years ago in downtown Appleton. DT Green Bay and Port Plaza lost its retail core status to both Bay Park Square in suburban Ashwaubenon and the Fox River Mall in the Appleton area. DT GB still has some night life and the river is an aesthetic attraction, though.

I also get the 'sense' that the focus of life in the Green Bay area has shifted to the area along Oneida St between about US 41 and the Lambeau Field area in Ashwaubenon in recent years.

Man, what would metro Green Bay be like had the Packers not survived the 1920s....

:eek:

Mike
I am sure the PAC had something to do with the Weidner, but it was probably more of a combination of factors then just the PAC. The Resch center, The Meyer, and the downturn in the economy probably had quite a bit to do as well. I guess that I might be the exception here as I really never go to the Oneida St. area or the Fox River Mall area, but a ton of people do. That is life. The GB-ATW Metro is all built around 'sprawl', I am sure that is why many people move out of here after college (plus the fact that the job sector is somewhat limited). As to the packers, I'm not sure how different it would be, other then the name recognition it gives Green Bay???? There are many other small/midsized midwest cities doing alright.

Bay2Bay

June 3rd, 2007, 02:59 AM

I've always felt the underutilization of the Weidner Center was more of a management failure than anything else. Sure, the timing of the PAC in Appleton didn't help matters, but look back at how the Weidner has been run...

When they first opened they had a national search for a director who had experience in running a performing arts center of this caliber. He then set up a relationship with a Broadway production managing company which was called JUMACYN (not certain on the spelling) which guaranteed a steady stream of Broadway shows they were promoting. Around the time the PAC opened up down in the valley, the original director had left and instead of a national search for a replacement they promoted his assistant. The relationship with JUMACYN was cancelled because the feeling was the Weidner was established and didn't need the Broadway connection (huge mistake). Of course, the final straw came when the Weidner management, going it alone, went up against Clear Channel which is managing the PAC and obviously didn't have the guns to compete.

This, along with the fact that there is a continuing tug-of-war over the Weidner with UWGB and the Green Bay arts community over the direction the Weidner should be going has led to its problems more than the PAC has been given credit for. IMHO.

downtownVital.org

June 3rd, 2007, 10:21 PM

Please excuse the candor. I was in town last week as well, abeit for a funeral, but downtown GB was a ghostown. There was little to no foot traffic during lunch (I ate at KaVarna) and the 5 minute train that went through caused a line of cars maybe thirty deep on either side of Walnut. And the price of homes does have a very direct correlation with whether or not people will purchase, especially in a region as depressed and blue collar as Green Bay. Sushi would go over in downtown like a fart in church: people would be attracted to the novelty, but it would wear off; the Weidner Center is proof of that. Or how about Gallagher's pizza, the huge investment that worked well for a short time and went under, just like Jillians. The downtown projects are certainly unique, but unique in this context means too expensive and not worthy of investement. It all looks really pretty on paper though. Sorry, I just call it like I see it.

Hey, this just in... making it in the restaurant business is tough!

I think it's fair to point out that the real estate market has an effect on the success of downtown, and if your opinion is that none of this can work, then that's fine. At the same time, I give you for instance Little Tokyo (http://www.littletokyo.onbroadway.org/), the sushi bar that has operated on Boradway for some years now. Now, you can claim that his has gone over like a fart in church, but you'd claim wrong.

In fact, we don't really know what types of restaurants would actually be build in River Center. And by nature of the business, any restaurant there may not work out. Yet, these are many successful places that have made it too. I just stayed at St Brendan's Inn this weekend, and wouldn't ya know, a nice new inn and restaurant has been built in the downtown in the last few years and has, at least it seems to this point, been a success! It really does happen.

-------------------

Finally, this is probably my last post on this as downtownVital.org. For a variety of reasons, I've created a new account, so when you see posts by Danillo, that's me. The website is going to have to change enough that I though it would be a good time to change my username on here as well.

Danillo

June 3rd, 2007, 10:35 PM

Hi.

:wave:

About the Weidner. A cause of their problems was the fall of the Broadway show. When it opened, they could bring in Phantom for a month and sell out every show. But, as Fillmore alluded to, there's a novelty that can't last. You can only sell out long runs of Phantom, Les Mis, or Ms. Saigon so many times. A more creative appoach in programming would have helped, but even then, the other problem is that the cost of bringing in a show like those has risen and it's very tough to turn a profit no matter what you do at this point. Add to that increased competition for the entertainment dollar from not only the PAC, the other venues like the Resch Center.

The reality is, very few performing arts centers pay for themselves, anywhere, especially in markets our size. They usually exist as a result of donors covering the loss. I'm not sure the PAC has ever made money, I don't believe so. The Weidner was fortunate to have been built when the traveling Broadway shows were very profitable, and so the Weidner was able to pay off its debt. The PAC has not been so lucky.

Puant

June 5th, 2007, 04:50 AM

It's great to see some activity on this thread again, even if some of it is the typical pessimistic, cynical view of downtown development. Contrary to Fillmore's statement, I don't believe that population is the single biggest factor in having a nicely developed downtown. This is probably not a good example because the Mayo clinic is such a huge part of this, but I was in Rochester Minnesota over the weekend and I was amazed. The population is 95,000 (less than Green Bay's) and the MSA population (metro) is about 175,000 which is only about half of the MSA metro population of Green Bay.

The skyline is amazing for a city this size. We stayed downtown, it was so great to be able to just walk everywhere (though it downpoured on us on our walk to a pretty high-society wedding at the Rochester Art Center..nothing like walking into this sort of thing totally drenched and looking like a drowned rat...my wife handled it surprisingly well..turns out we could have taken the skywalks the whole way. oops).

Anyway, sorry for the tangent... The next day I was able to stoll around the downtown with my youngest daughter, I took some pics of the phenomenal skyscrapers and even better courtyards and plazas and other walkable spaces inbetween them. You may be interested in some of these, remember this is a city & metro smaller than Green Bay:

http://picasaweb.google.com/gBayPacker/RochesterMN

these were taken early on Sunday morning, thats why you don't see many people.

Now, of course I know it's crazy to think that Green Bay downtown will ever be like this. My point is, however, having a large dense population of a million people is not the only factor in having a great downtown. There are other factors, such as having strong business leaders who believe in downtown, invest in downtown and possibly those businesses grow there and spawn other developments. If we could even get a smidgen of this (smidgen? well, shucks I was just in Minnesooota) we might have a shot. The Mayo Clinic leaders could have decided, like many Green Bay leaders years ago, to abandon downtown and move out to a cheaper sprawly development further out, but, they didn't and now what they have there is fantastic.

GBSurveyor

June 5th, 2007, 06:11 AM

the green bay press gazette is stating that big news is set to be released on wednesday outside the daily planet for the plans that the meyer theater group has in their hands. sounds like a bunch of new things are really finally starting to get underway

Does anyone know what is up with this?? I was on Washington Street today shortly after 1 PM and there seemed to be all sorts of activity around the daily planet site. There was a semi trailers parked along the street and 2 WPS trucks which looked like they were erecting some type of poles in the area along Walnut St., also peeked inside the Bellin Building, it is really being gutted. It will be nice when they open up the Main entrance again. Can't wait for some of this stuff to get rollin...

Danillo

June 5th, 2007, 04:45 PM

Now, of course I know it's crazy to think that Green Bay downtown will ever be like this.

Actually, I don't think it's crazy at all. Now, it won't happen this year or this decade, but lets say for the sake of argument that the riverfront is successful and the mall site gets redeveloped reasonably well. The downtown, or parts of it, could begin to become something that area residents are proud of, and just as importantly for growth, something that is attractive to the types of professionals that growing businesses employ. Not to beat the dead horse of "what if AMS had built downtown," but what if the next AMS does build downtown? Things can change, but it would take time.

That said, the big difference between GB and Rochester (and I don't have any stats on this) isn't the total population, but the highly-educated/high income population. Now, there's nothing wrong with Green Bay's population, but yet when businesses, especially some of the types of retailers that are often cited as those that people want to see downtown, look at the possibility of opening a GB location, they look at metrics like the percent of population with college degrees. This is quite low in Green Bay, and makes the area less attractive to business. To a pretty large degree, it is the folks that GBM would term "whole-wheaters" (tend to be higly educated, high income, like to spend money on hip, fancy stuff) that spend in ways that make a downtown successful. My guess is there are significantly more of those people in Rochester than here.

All of this is why the UWGB growth agenda is so important to the region.

Does anyone know what is up with this?? I was on Washington Street today shortly after 1 PM and there seemed to be all sorts of activity around the daily planet site. There was a semi trailers parked along the street and 2 WPS trucks which looked like they were erecting some type of poles in the area along Walnut St., also peeked inside the Bellin Building, it is really being gutted. It will be nice when they open up the Main entrance again. Can't wait for some of this stuff to get rollin...

I don't know specifically what's up with it, but I was able to see a rendering of the porposal for the site, and I was quite pleased. There's a few things I would change, personally, but overall it did a nice job of blending in the elements from the Meyer Theater while looking pretty fresh and of its time. Hopefully getting the tenants needed to make it go will not be too difficult. And hopefully there will be some good info coming out tomorrow.

Bartles53

June 5th, 2007, 06:45 PM

Posted June 3, 2007

Richard Ryman column: Bellin Building work finally progressing

By Richard Ryman

It took a little longer than expected — which development project doesn't — but renovation of large parts of the Bellin Building are under way.

Owner Steve Schneider said the signing of a restaurant tenant resolved the location for The Daily Buzz coffee shop, which announced its decision to locate in the historic building in November.

The coffee shop will be on the ground floor, facing East Walnut Street. The restaurant will have a bar and gathering area on the ground floor and L-shaped eating area on the second floor facing east and north.

"All seating will have a view of the Fox River or the Meyer Theatre," Schneider said of the restaurant.

The building's entrance will be returned to the northeast corner, facing the Cherry Street parking ramp, with a diagonal glassed-in lobby leading to the elevator. Ground floor windows will be replaced, with the result that you'll be able to see through the lobby from Washington Street through to Walnut.

Owners of the restaurant are as yet unnamed, as is the restaurant, but Heather Conard is the owner of The Daily Buzz.

"It's going to be a high-end restaurant," Schneider said. "It will be somewhere you can come and have dinner before you go to a Meyer Theatre show."

Grand staircase

There will be a lighted grand staircase leading to the second floor and room on the mezzanine above the bar for live entertainment, such as a jazz band, Schneider said.

Schneider and fellow investors acquired the building a year ago. The purchase included a portion of the basement, floors one through five, and the penthouse on the ninth floor. The sixth, seventh and eighth floors are independently owned business condominiums that house legal services and mental health offices.

Schneider said the first, second and fifth floors are spoken for. There is one opening on the fourth floor and a couple more on the third floor. He's not going to try to fill the third-floor spaces until after construction on the lower floors is complete.

"It serves as sort of a buffer," he said.

Schuh Construction of Seymour will be general contractor for the project.

Awnings will return

Schneider said awnings will be restored to the Washington Street side of the building as well.

He said they recently acquired old postcards of the building on eBay so they could see what it looked like decades ago.

You may not be able to find everything on the Internet auction site, but you can sure find a lot.

"You type in 'Bellin Building' every day and sooner or later, things come up," Schneider said.

While the exterior of the building is lighted from the second floor up, Schneider said the sidewalk is still pretty dark.

"We will ask the city for a little help with that," he said.

A month or two ago there was very little news regarding downtown development and there was a general pessimism about projects actually breaking ground. It's funny how things slowly turned around. The Bellin Building is making great strides (great news on a Black & Tan-level restaurant, Danillo). River Center was finally sold and work is to begin this month. The former canning factory is now likely to be developed into its own live/work community and appears to have at least one office tenant. Now there seems to be a buzz around the Daily Planet site. I guess I should restrain my optimism to a cautionary level but things are definitely looking up. If the momentum can keep rolling on these projects and if Astor Place can at least break ground by fall, I will be a very happy camper.

GBSurveyor

June 5th, 2007, 07:42 PM

Actually, I don't think it's crazy at all. Now, it won't happen this year or this decade, but lets say for the sake of argument that the riverfront is successful and the mall site gets redeveloped reasonably well. The downtown, or parts of it, could begin to become something that area residents are proud of, and just as importantly for growth, something that is attractive to the types of professionals that growing businesses employ. Not to beat the dead horse of "what if AMS had built downtown," but what if the next AMS does build downtown? Things can change, but it would take time.

That said, the big difference between GB and Rochester (and I don't have any stats on this) isn't the total population, but the highly-educated/high income population. Now, there's nothing wrong with Green Bay's population, but yet when businesses, especially some of the types of retailers that are often cited as those that people want to see downtown, look at the possibility of opening a GB location, they look at metrics like the percent of population with college degrees. This is quite low in Green Bay, and makes the area less attractive to business. To a pretty large degree, it is the folks that GBM would term "whole-wheaters" (tend to be higly educated, high income, like to spend money on hip, fancy stuff) that spend in ways that make a downtown successful. My guess is there are significantly more of those people in Rochester than here.

All of this is why the UWGB growth agenda is so important to the region.
Well what really needs to happen are jobs, good paying jobs. All the startup business that have happened here over the years, that has seen to taper off and all of the locals with education are required to move away to find decent employment. I sure can think of more college (not including tech) educated people that have moved away then that have returned. Green Bay doesn't really offer that wide variety of employment opportunities, the ones that we need to grow our economy. I believe that we have a decent system in place for business incubation, but what we need are more capitol investors. The new tenant announced for the Larson property is a software development co., that is a great sector for growth. It is great that some people actually care about this area and choose to stay and do a startup. I tip my hat to them.

On a side note, did anyone get over to the Green Bay Bullfrogs game last night? I saw on the news that the attendance was like 1200, that seems alright considering the weather. I know that the owner has high hopes for the club, which is great. I would like to hear some feedback on this. Ummmm where are you GBMphillips????? the unofficial baseball captain of this thread.

Danillo

June 5th, 2007, 07:50 PM

Regarding the Bellin Building, I just can't wait to see that completed. I saw the flag flying there this weekend, which was very nice. Between that, the lighting, the cleaned facade, and more importantly the uses planned for the first two floors, the Bellin Bldg. is really set to become a Green Bay landmark again! And in this case, it's actually happening right now, no need to wait and wonder when or if it will start. YIPPEE!!!!!!!!!!

Green Bay 4 Life

June 5th, 2007, 10:17 PM

Does anyone know what is up with this?? I was on Washington Street today shortly after 1 PM and there seemed to be all sorts of activity around the daily planet site. There was a semi trailers parked along the street and 2 WPS trucks which looked like they were erecting some type of poles in the area along Walnut St., also peeked inside the Bellin Building, it is really being gutted. It will be nice when they open up the Main entrance again. Can't wait for some of this stuff to get rollin...

There appears to have been a sign erected, however it is covered up currently, signifying the proposed building is for lease and will hopefully contain the rendering. I too have seen the renderings, and in my opinion is one “GIANT” step ahead for proposed architecture in the downtown area. I probably wouldn’t change too much on the building as well and hope that leasing space will not be too much on an issue in order to get going on this project. Hopefully this will deflect some of the negativity that has been thrust upon Green Bay lately. Albeit, only a little. Truly a historic day tomorrow with a great proposal and a great looking proposal. :cheers:

9:00 AM tomorrow at the site, the rest of the City sees what is hopefully a reality real soon.

Green Bay 4 Life

June 5th, 2007, 11:31 PM

I am surprised no one mentioned this. St. Vincent's is replacing the windows on the west side wall this year and the other two sides next year to more energy efficent and a more tinted design. See below picture. HUGE improvement. It appears that grey metal portion is coming off and this work will make the hospital look very modern.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/phatty_013/STV.jpg

See related story

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070601/GPG03/706010577/1247

gbmphillips

June 6th, 2007, 12:25 PM

They are going to announce a nine story office building/ condo where the Daily Plant is. Here is the part that worries me about it ever getting built. Like all projects in Green Bay strings attached. The final size of the proposed building — and the pace at which it progresses — is dependent on lining up prospective tenants. But at least its an idea

http://cmsimg.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=U0&Date=20070606&Category=GPG03&ArtNo=706060574&Ref=AR&Profile=1978&MaxW=300
Jim Graff, bottom, and Scott Barrett of Quick Signs assemble a 26-foot-tall sign announcing the newest redevelopment project in downtown Green Bay on Tuesday. A nine-story condominium and office tower is planned for the lot occupied by the former Daily Planet restaurant. Jim Matthews/Press-Gazette

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070606/GPG03/706060574/1978

Inside the Beltway

June 6th, 2007, 02:27 PM

http://cmsimg.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=U0&Date=20070606&Category=GPG03&ArtNo=706060574&Ref=AR&Profile=1978&MaxW=300

Wow, architecture that is seen just about everwhere else in the US could finally make its debut in Green Bay! I think if ever built, it would compliment the Bellin Building nicely...

Green Bay 4 Life

June 6th, 2007, 02:35 PM

well it looks like the cat's out of the bag based on the picture shown in the Green Bay Press-Gazette. Here is a better view of the rendering that I have seen.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/phatty_013/GrandUnionRendering.jpg

Danillo

June 6th, 2007, 03:49 PM

I sure can think of more college (not including tech) educated people that have moved away then that have returned. Green Bay doesn't really offer that wide variety of employment opportunities, the ones that we need to grow our economy.

While I agree that diversifying the economy is always a good thing, consider the following statistics regarding UWGB:

- Enrollment: 5,400 students
- 72% come to UWGB from Northeast Wisconsin
- 75% of UWGB graduates stay in Northeast Wisconsin
- 90% of UWGB graduates stay in Wisconsin

So, despite the frequent talk of the "brain-drain," the statistics, at least for UWGB, don't back that up. In fact, the stats reveal a slight brain-gain created by the university. So, while its obvious that the region needs to be constantly creating new jobs, I also feel that growing the university to the goal of 7,500 students will be a great asset to the community.

Like all projects in Green Bay strings attached. The final size of the proposed building — and the pace at which it progresses — is dependent on lining up prospective tenants. But at least its an idea

Yes, the finding tenants issue is always a concern (not just in Green Bay, either). Hopefully the goal here will be to find small tenants looking for a floor or so, instead of looking for the magical "anchor tenant" that never seems to materialize.

Wow, architecture that is seen just about everwhere else in the US could finally make its debut in Green Bay! I think if ever built, it would compliment the Bellin Building nicely...

Agreed.

Here is a better view of the rendering that I have seen.

Thanks for posting that. Looks nice. The part I'm not too thrilled with is the extension above the NW corner, though that looks better without those posts that are in the other rendering. But overall, I think it's pretty sharp.

Bartles53

June 6th, 2007, 06:06 PM

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet. The corner offices are going to have awesome views.

titletown

June 7th, 2007, 12:29 AM

Wow...and that was way back in September, almost 9 months a go....I knew something was going up there...or proposed anyways :lol:

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/GreenBayWI/GrandUnion.jpg

titletown

June 9th, 2007, 05:29 AM

gbgoose

June 9th, 2007, 06:06 AM

Anyone going to International Bayfest? What is up w/ everything done at 11pm, that is lame. You would think it would be going on until 1 or bar close. I do not get off of work until late and by the time I make it down there nearly at 10:30pm it is almost done. I think they could do a better job w/ this festival. I mean we only have so many festivals going on around here. I hardly heard any media or advertisement this year. Not like in the past.

I'm heading down there tomorrow night, and around the same time you mentioned. It shuts down at 11:00? I know the final band at the north stage starts around 9:30 - but still, the event should be going until at least midnight.

MilwaukeeMark

June 10th, 2007, 03:54 AM

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/phatty_013/GrandUnionRendering.jpg

I dig it. I like how the corner is rounded instead of square... definitely adds a needed element of interestingness to the building.

And whoever did that graphic must have an affinity toward bugs... :)

Puant

June 10th, 2007, 06:08 PM

Here's the website, in case you couldn't see it on the sign:

http://www.thegranduniongb.com/

Looks like they plan to add more graphics & things so it's something to keep an eye on.

P.S.
Bayfest was OK, took my 4 & 5 year olds there on Saturday. Rides were expensive and just so-so. Made us appreciate Bay Beach. We also went to Heritage Hill yesterday, and honestly, my kids liked it better than Bayfest. That said, good for Bayfest to bring people downtown. HOpefully they'll be able to develop Bayfest downtown into something really special in the future.

I've got a few pics of each on this photo album:

Green Bay 4 Life

June 11th, 2007, 02:29 PM

The website indicates the Grand Union will be 161 feet tall. Not huge for other city standards, but for Green Bay. Suwheet...:nuts:

Danillo

June 11th, 2007, 04:51 PM

Bartles53

June 12th, 2007, 02:47 AM

Posted June 11, 2007

On Broadway completes purchase of Larsen site

On Broadway Inc. today completed its purchase of the 22-acre Larsen Canning Co. site on North Broadway.

On Broadway paid $3.5 million for the former vegetable-processing factory, which will be parceled and sold for redevelopment projects.

Plans call for converting the property to housing, some of which would be first-floor live-work units, art spaces and public gathering spaces facing Broadway. Offices and retail development also will be part of the project.

“This property is very important to Green Bay, both historically and economically,” said Greg Larsen, president of On Broadway Inc. “With the agreements we already have in place, the Larsen property will … add an additional $100 million to the tax rolls over the course of the next 10 years.”

The property has had a number of owners, including Larsen Canning, Dean Foods, Agrilink and Bird’s Eye. Bird’s Eye ceased processing operations there in 2003.

It still maintains research and development operations at the site.

Frozen Codebase, a software company, will be moving in this week, said Naletta Burr, On Broadway director.

Whaaa?? Frozen Codebase is moving in later this week? How is that possible? Apparently someone's already been doing some work on that project.

Bartles53

June 12th, 2007, 03:21 AM

Still, that's a heck of a lot of new development and investment in the downtown. So again, what needs to happen?

If I could make a stock market analogy, after a bear market ends there is generally a significant period of time after the bulls begin charging that the consensus remains negative. Downtown has been seen in a negative light for so long that it'll take a major splash for the average person to notice that the tide has turned. Personally, I think that the river front has to change in a major way before the optimism begins. One could argue that the river front has changed south of Walnut but everything south of the apartments/condos on the south side of the street isn't easily seen from the commuter on the west side of the river. I think that the day interior lights are emitting from RiverCenter is the day that public opinion will change. And seeing the cranes and steel beams shooting up from the Astor Place site won't hurt either.

One other thing, I was a fan of the name of the Grand Union building before I knew the story behind it. I absolutely love the name now after reading about it on the Grand Union website that Puant provided.

GBSurveyor

June 12th, 2007, 05:55 AM

The Press Gazette's online poll now is: Do you believe that downtown Green Bay is in the midst of an economic turnaround?

The results so far:

Yes: 25.6%
No: 53.0%
Can't really tell: 21.4%

Number of votes cast: 823

So, what needs to happen. Clearly, the following developments are either not visible enough or insufficient to signal a emerging turnaround in the minds of most:

St. Brendan's Inn
Nicolet Bank
Johnson Bank
Baylake Bank
KI Center
Cherry Ramp
Meyer Theatre
Riverfront Lofts
Belling Building Improvements

And that's a short list off the top of my head. Now, of course, there are businesses and properties that have not done well, most notably the mall (though that's been a problem for 15 years). Still, that's a heck of a lot of new development and investment in the downtown. So again, what needs to happen? Will work on River Center be enough? Does construction on Astor Place need to begin? Or will it take untill the mall is gone before anything can change people's minds? Alternativly, am I too close to what's happening down there and too wishful, and perhaps things aren't heading in the right direction?

Just a guess...retail??? I really think that people see the failed Port Plaza mall and think downtown is dead. I heard some neighbor kids ask their mom if they she could bring them downtown to Baypark Square. I sort of chuckled a bit to myself, but then thought about it. It has really been a long time since anything, other then bars, banks and government offices, have been downtown. Maybe once the childrens museum opens, more family orientated options will follow. I'm not sure. All I know is that some of my best childhood memories are from the downtowns of Milwaukee, Chicago and too some extents Madison. Street life is something that cannot be created in a suburban setting, and I'm not really sure if many local families ever travel any further south then Appleton, specially if your spending every weekned up in Crivitz.

So to quit babbling and get to a point, I guess I think it will take a multitude of options, including some retail, more entertainment options and in general more life. I think that people, even though you hear a lot of them complain, really do like to congregate and be around others, Bayfest seemed to show that and we can't over look every Packer game. just my :2cents:

Puant

June 12th, 2007, 06:23 AM

The Press Gazette's online poll now is: Do you believe that downtown Green Bay is in the midst of an economic turnaround?

The results so far:

Yes: 25.6%
No: 53.0%
Can't really tell: 21.4%

Number of votes cast: 823

So, what needs to happen. Clearly, the following developments are either not visible enough or insufficient to signal a emerging turnaround in the minds of most:

St. Brendan's Inn
Nicolet Bank
Johnson Bank
Baylake Bank
KI Center
Cherry Ramp
Meyer Theatre
Riverfront Lofts
Belling Building Improvements

And that's a short list off the top of my head. Now, of course, there are businesses and properties that have not done well, most notably the mall (though that's been a problem for 15 years). Still, that's a heck of a lot of new development and investment in the downtown. So again, what needs to happen? Will work on River Center be enough? Does construction on Astor Place need to begin? Or will it take untill the mall is gone before anything can change people's minds? Alternativly, am I too close to what's happening down there and too wishful, and perhaps things aren't heading in the right direction?

Things are moving in the right direction, but I agree with you all that we need to get the steel in the air before people are going to believe. Not only steel in the air, but just as importantly, we need to make sure the spaces inbetween the buildings is nice clean and as green as possible too (don't surround the new buildings with big ugly parking lots!). The riverfront boardwalk will certainly help with this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but lot of the public's general negativity also seems to stem from the fact that so many of the big plans are perceived as "Mayor Schmidt's ideas" or else those of a carpetbagger from Milwaukee (Vetter), built on tax dollars for the exclusive wealthy (bankers and rich condo dwellers). Hopefully the River Center with it's affordable housing and children's museum will help change some of these perceptions. The more I think about it, the more I believe it really was best to start on River Center ahead of Astor. We all agree that the old Younkers vacant building is so visible yet so run-down and ugly; RC will be perceived as a great revitalization once it's done.

Now I also have my hopes all up for the Grand Union as well. I suppose this is at least 3 years off, if ever, so maybe I'll have to curb the enthusiasm a bit.

I wonder if we added up all of the potential new retail/office floorspace--RC+Astor's, GrandUnion's, the mall site's, and all of the other misc vacancies (eg. Adams St. Station, the space under the new ramp, Frankenthal building, etc etc)--how much potential floorspace is out there as available space?? It's got to be a big, big number of square feet. As optimistic as I usually am, I wonder, where are all of these businesses going to come from to fill it all? (some of you already made this point loud & clear).

If, say, the old mall is razed and that opens up large parcels for development, I fear that it's going to be waaay to tempting for someone to turn that site into low-rise 1 or 2 story buildings with big ass parking lots surrounding each, just to get them developed.

Yep, I might as well curb my enthusiasm and just hope R/C and Astor get built at least.

titletown

June 14th, 2007, 05:50 AM

I had a chance to talk to one of the owners of Hip Cats. He said that they could not come to an agreement w/ the landlord on rent so they decided to close down. That place was really losing business fast to other newer places like: The Firehouse & Stirrups. I wonder what will end up going there?

Danillo

June 14th, 2007, 06:16 PM

I think the shelf life for a dance club is fairly short. It's not like a restaurant or even a pub that can become an institution and last for a long time. Even in the bar business, things are really subject to the whims of the masses. I have a cousin who was (is?) a bouncer at Anduzzi's in Ashwaubenon, and he'd tell me how for a period, everyone will be at, say, The Bar and other establishments would have small crowds, then suddenly everyone would be at Anduzzi's, or Stadium View. Just really unpredictable. I think dance clubs are even worse, after a few years they just aren't hip anymore and people more elsewhere.

On to other things: I'm told that abatement/demo work has commenced at River Center! I haven't seen it with my own eyes, but this is good to hear.

titletown

June 15th, 2007, 03:45 AM

Even in NYC the clubs only last 6 months on average. They change the name and redo the inside every 6 months sometimes, because as like Dan said, people go w/ the masses and what is in.

I hear the Cannery has signed a 3rd tenant. It sounds like they will buy the 2 story brick building across from Hinterland and move in there.

GBSurveyor

June 16th, 2007, 02:45 PM

From wbay.com (http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=6666674)

Big plans are in the works for the old Larsen cannery in downtown Green Bay.

On Broadway Incorporated bought the 22-acre property on North Broadway earlier this week. It expects demolition to begin in the next six weeks.

Of the 24 buildings on the site, only eight will stay. An equal amount of space among those eight will be given to retail, office, and residential space.

While On Broadway owns the site, it wants developers to come up with ideas.

"We're targeting creative community in the sense of not only traditional creatives like painter and sculptors and things along those lines, but also professional creatives like architects, and marketing professionals, and engineering companies -- all those companies that can grow together and foster one another," On Broadway's Naletta Burr said.

Part of the plan includes creating a street grid system to separate the properties.

GBSurveyor

June 16th, 2007, 02:59 PM

The P-G also has a video on their site about the Larson site.

Here is a link. (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070615/VIDEO0301/306150007) Not sure if it will work though

Puant

June 16th, 2007, 08:09 PM

Here is a link. (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070615/VIDEO0301/306150007) Not sure if it will work though

You're not sure if the link will work or the plans for the Larsen site?

I think it's an interesting plan. A little hard to visualize though. I'm sure there are skeptics up to wazoo, but I would say that On Broadway has a pretty good track record considering all the good they've done on the rest of Broadway in the past 10 years. The Larsen site might be a bigger challenge.

GBSurveyor

June 16th, 2007, 09:35 PM

^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Actually I meant the link...

What I think is great that I think they realize that it will take a long time, 10 years or more to get things fully developed. It sounds like they have buyers for a number of buildings and it will be a bonus to see some of the metal pole buildings come down. I am a little worried about seing too much surface parking though. I envision it to be more like south Washington Street with Johnson Bank and St. Brendons, with residental mixed in. I guess we will see.

Green Bay 4 Life

June 18th, 2007, 02:26 PM

Article in today's GBPG

Downtown Younkers to begin tumbling down this week

No dynamite blasts or implosions, but high-tech demolition

By Paul Srubas

Fans of huge dynamite blasts and the dramatic implosion of big buildings are in for a disappointment as demolition gets under way at the old Younkers site in downtown Green Bay.

But anyone excited about downtown development should feel nothing but enthusiasm.

John Vetter's River Center development project at the Younkers site has been little more than a newspaper headline the last few years. But starting this week, you'll see heavy equipment, workers in hard hats and clouds of dust as the first real work of the redevelopment takes place in the form of demolition work.

And although there'll be no dynamite or implosions, there'll still be some pretty cool destruction, promises Lloyd Copeland, who is overseeing the demolition work by Midwest Rail & Dismantling of Milwaukee.

For example, they'll have a demolition robot on hand — a remote-control behemoth that uses a hammer to take down walls in areas that are too high and dangerous to risk putting people in tractors.

Workers from Copeland's company were on site last week, bringing in crates, generators, job trailers and other stuff they'll need. They also installed plastic sheeting and duct tape to contain the dust.

The crew will be at the site for the next five months and, depending on what work is being done at the time, the crew will be anywhere from 5 to 35 strong.

They'll start out doing asbestos abatement work, which in the Younkers buildings, mostly involves the removal of floor tile glue and pipe wrapping, Copeland said. Then the workers will do "exploratory demolition," which involves removing the "soft" interior coverings, like ceiling tiles and plaster, to expose the load-bearing structure.

Then the walls will start coming down.

They'll take down the walkway that crosses North Washington Street, and they'll take down nearly all of the part of the old store that runs along Washington; only the northernmost tip will survive. The entire stretch of the property that runs parallel to the Fox River also will survive.

River Center will include rental lofts, condominiums, retail and possibly office spaces. In November, the City Council approved dividing the project into two phases. The first, with the lofts and condos, will be worth $23 million.

The rental lofts will be developed by Stone House Development of Madison. The Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority awarded $7.5 million in tax credits to help finance the $10 million rental lofts project, which will set units aside for people with a low to moderate incomes.

The second phase, valued at $5 million to $17 million, depends on whether an office user signs on as a tenant.

The Children's Museum will buy part of the project for its new $2.2 million home. The museum plans a grand opening for fall 2008.

Vetter plans to build a 17-story mixed-use tower on the adjacent property to the north of the Younkers building. He said sales of condominium units in Astor Place continue and construction could begin in mid- to- late summer.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070618/GPG0101/706180458/1978

Green Bay 4 Life

June 18th, 2007, 02:30 PM

Found some interesting pictures...

What was promised...

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/phatty_013/PortPlazaMallRendering.jpg

What was lost...

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/phatty_013/ClearforMall.jpg

And I am sure we all know what we have now. But with what have is an oppurtunity. Hopefully, tearing down the mall structure won't be looked at as sad 25 years from now...

Geography Teacher

June 18th, 2007, 03:17 PM

Wow -- thanks for those pictures, I had never seen those before!

I highly doubt, based on the current trends with US downtowns, that anyone will be sad about the mall 25 years from now. Yes, we old-timers will have our stories of Orange Juliuses and Center Court entertainment (how about that high school orchestra?), but there is no way this loss will be lamented.

It's interesting that they envisioned big buildings on Madison Street in that 1974 drawing. We instead have a single-story dental office on one site, and the Schreiber Foods building on the other. While Schreiber Foods (formerly the First Wisconsin Bank building, I believe) is one of the few dowtown office "towers" that I looked up to as a child, it is by no means the 13-story building in the picture.

(do you remember the hand-wringing over that Madison/Main site -- the developers made a big deal about the fact that a second story could be built on top of the first story to satisfy those who demanded a high-value investment on that parcel?)

I hope those two examples are not harbingers for what will happen to the RC, AP, and Grand Union sites. That being said, it is exciting to see the Younkers demolition getting under way.

Finally, on a completely different tack, my family and I tried Fratello's on the river in Ashwaubenon last night. It was lovely, good food and drink, ate outside and listened to excellent live music. My mother-in-law calls it a "Minneapolis place" as she would like Green Bay to better resemble our larger neighbor to the west. It reminded me of eating on the roof of Gallagher's in downtown Green Bay.

Puant

June 20th, 2007, 06:42 AM

That 1974 mall rendering is very interesting. I had never seen that picture before either. The glossy sheen of this thing strikes me as odd. I'm looking for Mr. Clean's shiny bald head to be peeking aroudn the corner next to one of the glinty shiny areas. I mean, even the concrete is sparkly clean. Of course in reality, nothing got built this shiny or heavenly. Instead we got flat faceless boring hulks of concrete and massive expanses of black tar asphalty crap.

As long as what gets built here is better than what's there now, I doubt anyone will miss this old mall. I mean, yeah, if the whole site gets razed again and then just sits there empty like in the 2nd photo for a long time, people will wonder why the mall was torn down, of course. "Could've been converted into our much-needed new high school", people will say.

I'm all for adaptive reuse whenever possible. If there's any way parts of the existing structure, like the JCPenney part, can be re-used in a better way, great. But it's going to be really tough to re-use much of this structure, and frankly, there just isn't much about it that is really worth caring about.

By the way, I thought the proposals for the mall site redevelopment were due to the city shortly. I wonder if anyone actually submitted anything.

titletown

June 24th, 2007, 04:48 AM

Updates:

* Spoke w/ Steve Schneider today regarding Bellin Building. He thought that the first 2 floors will be done around September for the Restaurant & coffee shop.

* The Firehouse possibly moving across the street to former Hip Cats location ?!

Green Bay 4 Life

June 24th, 2007, 03:42 PM

The Firehouse moving to the former Hip Cats bldg would be like the kiss of death. It is cool right where it is. I love the intamacy and the feeling of it being packed. 100 people in a space for 120 is far better than 175 people in a space for 600+ imo. We need a true sports bar downtown, like Coach's Corner on steroids or ala Major Goolsby's in Milwaukee... Hip Cats would be a perfect spot for that.

Green Bay roots

June 24th, 2007, 07:12 PM

i think you guys have misconstrewed the whole firehouse moving thing. it is the same owners from milwaukee that are buying it but i highly doubt that the firehouse will be moving to the old hipcat's. the firehouse is where it is because it use to be a fire house. hence the theme. what the paper said is that the management company is buying Pi, Hipcat's and the parking lot and bring in a entertainment venue that is, as of right now, uncommon to the green bay area. we don't need to be jumping in to assumptions. i think DT green bay has enough of that right now on office and residential development, no need to start doing it on the nightlife as well

Puant

June 25th, 2007, 02:30 AM

Yeah, I second that^^No chance in hell the FIrehouse is moving, I recall they spent something close to half a million $ to renovate that little stone building into a club. No way they'll move right away, at leats I don't think it would make any financial sense at all. And right, it wouln't really be the "firehouse" anymore if it moved either. I think all of those places along that stretch of Walnut street can benefit from one another. If something else moves into Hip Cat's building, they'll all benefit.

Back in my bar-going days I remember how fun it was to bar hop. The dowtown makes that easy to do...Unlike the bars in Ashwaubenon where people have put up chain-link fences to prevent people from walking from one bar to another--such as the Bar on Holmgren Way. Was the fence really necessary? It's like they cage you in. Almost like they encourage you to get in your car after drinking.

I do want to thank Titletown for the update on the Bellin building though. I can't wait until that's finished.

And did anyone else notice in the paper today that 2 floors of the proposed Grand Union building are reserved already? I'd say that's pretty good news.

Green Bay 4 Life

June 25th, 2007, 11:51 PM

Not sure if I bought into the idea of the Firehouse relocating. My opinion was that if there were any truth to that was that it was a bad idea.

Bay2Bay

June 28th, 2007, 01:50 AM

Saw this article online in the GBPG today. Has Fradette indicated his displeasure with On Broadway before? He also indicates he's upset with the way the Larsen project is being handled. Will he be as vigorous in getting his way on this as he was in passing an ordinance to punish businesses that hire illegal aliens?

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070627/GPG0101/706270676/1207/GPGnews

Green Bay City Council president 'fed up' over On Broadway assessment change

Larsen Co. project also mismanaged, Fradette says

By Richard Ryman
rryman@greenbaypressgazette.com

Green Bay City Council President Chad Fradette put On Broadway and the Broadway Business Improvement District on notice Tuesday.

"I'm fed up with On Broadway," Fradette said at a City Council Advisory Committee meeting Tuesday.

Fradette is unhappy that the Broadway Business Improvement District board of directors has decided to raise its assessment on district property owners and with management of the Larsen Co. development project.

On Broadway and BID board representatives could not be reached Tuesday.

The Business Improvement District board, which contracts with On Broadway Inc. to manage its programs, recommended raising assessments on district businesses 15 cents per $1,000 of assessed valuation each year for three years beginning in 2008. The board is surveying property owners on the proposal. The current assessment is 84 cents per $1,000.

"I will not accept any tax increase on the Broadway BID district," Fradette said.

He said the board should be able to tell property owners how they are going to use the money before raising the tax.

"I don't like how they are being so cavalier about the tax raise," Fradette said

He said the Larsen Co. project is being mismanaged.

On Broadway acquired the Larsen Co. property — 22 acres on North Broadway — on June 11. The city guaranteed $3 million of the $4 million borrowed from M&I Bank to finance the project.

The plan is to sell the property to developers, who will turn it into retail, living and work spaces.

Money from leases and sales will be used to pay off the loan, with the amount guaranteed by the city being paid first.

The project is managed by a six-member board, three members appointed by the city and three by the On Broadway Inc. board of directors.

Fradette said the three Broadway representatives are not working well with the city representatives.

"They are not helping on this committee. It shows they have a lack of respect and a lack of cooperation with the city," Fradette said after the meeting. "They needed our help to get this done."

Fradette said he would prefer to keep working with the Broadway boards, and that threatening to pull the BID is a way of getting their attention.

Alderman Tom DeWane said he would like the city to hire an economic development person to manage the district.

Fradette said that to afford hiring such a person the city would probably have to combine the three business improvement districts: On Broadway, Downtown Green Bay Inc. and Olde Main.

Alderwoman Celestine Jefferies said she preferred to wait for a report from the mayor's office before discussing the matter.

"I need research, not feelings," she said.

The mayor's office is expected to report to the committee at its next meeting, which is not yet scheduled.

mjotist

June 28th, 2007, 02:06 AM

Did Guy Zima change his name to Chad Fradette? What is his deal?

Puant

June 28th, 2007, 04:58 AM

A few downtown development updates
Schauer & Schumacher building

I don't know if this means anything, but lately there has been some activity in the old Shauer & Shumacher furniture store on the corner of Walnut & Adams. People were moving stuff out, getting rid of a lot of crap into a big dumpster. It's not much to get too excited about, but I walk past this place every day, and it's been the most activity in that building since the furniture store moved out years ago. Maybe it's nothing, who knows? but maybe somebody's planning something here. I can only speculate as to what.

River Center
As promised, a lot of people are gearing up to demo the old Younkers building. The activity is mostly inside but you can't miss the fact that things are happening when you walk by. I'll try to get some pictures soon.

Bellin Building
This old bloke indeed had dust flying as skid steers cleaned out much of the first floor. It looks like the whole first couple floors will be made much more open. If they put some more of the big windows back in on the street level, this could be a very cool thing. I can imagine this all lit up at night, with activity indoors, highly visible to the cars going by on the busy Walnut Street. I can envision where this night scene could be one of the more "photographic" elements of the downtown...the night life at the street level on Washington, people chilling out with some wine or whatever as they get ready for a show at the Meyer across the street. Someone should render this up as a night scene or something...

Green Bay roots

June 28th, 2007, 01:38 PM

Authority rejects downtown restaurant bid

City, business can't agree on price for space in Cherry Street parking ramp

By Richard Ryman
rryman@greenbaypressgazette.com

The Green Bay Economic Development Authority on Wednesday rejected a proposal to build a restaurant in the Cherry Street parking ramp.

Pat Neph, co-owner of Pi nightclub across East Walnut Street from the ramp, proposed building a sports-themed middle-range restaurant in the 7,500-square-foot street-level space fronting North Washington Street.

Neph said the city's asking price for the land was too much, but if it agreed to his offer he would buy that and the 4,000-square-foot space facing East Walnut Street.

Allison Swanson, economic development director, said the city's asking price is $33 a square foot, which is based on construction costs.

"We would be somewhat negotiable," she said, but Neph's offer was not close to that. Also, she said, "There was concern that would take up what may be perceived by smaller businesses as the better space."

In other words, there is room for parking on North Washington Street and none on East Walnut Street.

Following a closed-door discussion, the authority rejected the offer.

Neph said he wasn't entirely surprised, "but, hey, you've got to try."

Neph said he and his partners are committed to helping downtown grow. In addition to operating Pi, they've purchased the former Reiser Diamond Vault property, 220 N. Adams St. Neph said he was not ready to reveal plans for that property.

"We are trying to build complementary businesses and something not already down here," he said. "People always say they don't want to be first. Somebody's got to be the first ones. We want to be first."

Swanson said the city has talked to four groups about possible ramp uses, but none have come to fruition.

What do u think this tells everyone....it is oprice way to high for the time and the city needs to sell at a more reasonable rate to get people moved in. 33 dollars per sg ft is a hell of a lot just for gravel and ground work. i'm i just crazy or has the city gone back to the ways of yester year within the last couple months?

Geography Teacher

June 28th, 2007, 03:52 PM

Allison Swanson, economic development director, said the city's asking price is $33 a square foot, which is based on construction costs.

Shouldn't the asking price be dictated by market forces of supply and demand, not by construction costs? Sure, you'd like to recoup your costs, but the price has to be competitive to sell.

I do worry that the City Council has swung more into pessimistic territory. Perhaps they -- like many of us -- are frustrated that projects like Astor Place are not moving forward. Not wanting to look like they've been fooled, and fearing voter backlash, they begin posturing themselves as tough naysayers who protect the good people of Green Bay from crooked entrepreneurs?

Danillo

June 28th, 2007, 04:07 PM

"I'm fed up with On Broadway," Fradette said at a City Council Advisory Committee meeting Tuesday.

...

Alderwoman Celestine Jefferies said she preferred to wait for a report from the mayor's office before discussing the matter.

"I need research, not feelings," she said.

Did Guy Zima change his name to Chad Fradette? What is his deal?

Fradette sure seems like he needs to show a bit more tact in terms of how he goes about doing things. I liked Alderwoman Jefferies quote, as it sure seems Fradette needs to take a deep breath and not project so much emotion in all of this. I mean, maybe he's right, but his comments make it seem like he's as interested in grabbing headlines as he is improving the city.

Schauer & Schumacher building

...

River Center

...

Bellin Building

That's be cool if somethign happens at Schauer & Schumacher. That's a very important property, an important link between Washtington and Adams Streets that really hurts the flow of downtown by being vacant.

River Center is progressing. I guess there's going to be some sort of "greenbreaking" there on the 12th (I think) and more visible demo should follow that.

The Bellin Building is going to be awesome. I could not be more happy about what's happening there.

What do u think this tells everyone....it is oprice way to high for the time and the city needs to sell at a more reasonable rate to get people moved in. 33 dollars per sg ft is a hell of a lot just for gravel and ground work. i'm i just crazy or has the city gone back to the ways of yester year within the last couple months?

How much does the ramp structure reduce construction costs for a potential buyer? I mean, if the ramp being there reduces costs per sq/ft to develop that space by $33 per sq/ft, then I'd say it's not unreasonable. From the story it almost sounds like Neph just kind of threw a low offer out there and didn't really expect it would be taken.

GBSurveyor

June 28th, 2007, 07:24 PM

I have noticed quite a bit of Fradette lately, I am not sure what his problem is. He sure seems like he is against a lot of people. OnBroadway must have pissed him off...

At least there is activity on that site. I have noticed that some demolition work has started as witnessed from Titletown. It sounds like other work is just around the corner. I seen a quick render of a 4 story on the corner of Broadway and Douseman (sp?) it looked very generic, not sure of the origin.

I also noticed that the baracade fence has been constructed around the Younkers site and also some activity on Adams at the site of the former Risers store, I think this was mentioned somewhere. Redevelopment of Hip Cats? Adams St. Station? So it sure seems like things are picking up.

As far as the ramp retail area goes. I totally think that the use proposed didn't seem to fit what has been envisioned there, reguardless of $. A Qdoba or pancharos style place would be a perfect fit there. One thing that I have noticed is the bank drivethru the ramp really sucks. I wish that could have been configured a bit differentally.

Fillmore

June 29th, 2007, 07:21 PM

Danillo

June 29th, 2007, 09:36 PM

^^

:dunno: That doesn't seem like it could be good news. I was about to speculate as to what that might mean, but I guess that won't do any good. Hopefully there will be more info coming out soon.

I guess I would add that now would be a strange time to be making significant changes, as you'd think that work starting next door at River Center would be an aid to Astor Place.

gbgoose

June 30th, 2007, 02:58 PM

GBSurveyor

June 30th, 2007, 03:57 PM

Howdy,
I received a call this morning from the realtor in charge of Astor Place, we all know who... She said her finance company will begin issuing deposit refund checks starting next week. She would not elaborate on the AP project or other downtown projects. I told her I was quite disappointed. She did not reply.:ohno:
Did you request a refund??? Otherwise it makes no sense at this point in the project. They just finished erecting the construction fence around the AP site yesterday and the P-G stated the construction was to begin soon. Maybe the River Center project has tapped him dry? or maybe now he can do a redesign of the Astor Project...drop it down to like 8-12 floors and then it might be a better seller??? I guess we can only speculate at this point. It still seems like a wierd timeing to cancel a project...but this is Green Bay.

Puant

June 30th, 2007, 04:52 PM

^^
Astor
Not to mention half of the units were sold or at least pending, including a couple of the $1 million + units at the top.

I wonder if they were having trouble finding tenants for the mixed-use/commercial space at the base. Could this be a show-stopper? Nobody seemed real committed, except for A'Bravo way early on...then of course that business instead opened up in the suburbs somewhere.

River Center
Well, at least there's continuing good news on RiverCenter development. WBAY-TV did a good job with this video clip: http://www.wbay.com/ (they don't keep the video on for long so watch it while you can). They need to update some of their renderings though, they're still showing some of the early renders.

Bay2Bay

June 30th, 2007, 08:17 PM

Fillmore

June 30th, 2007, 09:00 PM

No I didn't request a refund. I was one of the first clients to put down a deposit and have been twiddling my thumbs ever since. I figured as much. Oh well, the show must go on...

Puant

June 30th, 2007, 10:05 PM

There is an old adage: Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. That is what GB did awarding Vetter "River Center" along with "Astor Place." As soon as Vetter got the "River Center" project it seems as thought he shifted his focus on to that project, partly due to the public financing component he enjoys with it. Pehaps, had Juza gotten "River Center" both projects would be under construction today. Of course, hindsight is 20/20 and this is just an opinion.

I think Vetter realized that one of the main things holding back the sale of Astor condo units was that there was just too much junky shit surrounding the site. Not only is the old Younkers site a big pile of shit, then you also have acres & acres of defunct mall to look down on. The most fabulous home, if located in a crappy neighborhood, is always a hard sell.

Vetter has likely learned he'd best wait until R/C is complete, the boardwalk is finished, at least, before he can expect the Astor development to be attractive enough.

The other main problem was probably a soft real estate market where people wanting to move to Astor condo couldn't sell their existing house.

The city needs to do their part and put in the boardwalk. These + hopefully something with the Mall site and other developments will make the Astor sit e "ripe" for development again, maybe in a couple of years. I think Vetter realizes this and figured the people like FIllmore who put money down didn't want to wait another couple years.

Vetter's new problem will be the criticism he'll hear from some members of the City Council and the skeptical general public for delaying the project. I'm not even sure how much time he has...Could another developer take over the site? I think Vetter's vision is good. He just needs to focus on RiverCenter for now. I'm OK with this.

Bay2Bay

June 30th, 2007, 10:45 PM

The city needs to do their part and put in the boardwalk.

^^
I was just wondering about the boardwalk the other day. Is there any timeline for it?

Fillmore

June 30th, 2007, 11:50 PM

Yes,
Whatever happened to the Boardwalk discussion? That was a major selling point for Astor Place, but now it seems to have faded significantly.

Danillo

July 1st, 2007, 01:59 AM

^^ Plans for the boardwalk are still going ahead. The branding intitiative is closing in on completion, and fundraising will follow.

As for Astor Place, there's no way to say that it's dead at this point. Obviously, what Fillmore says is odd, but there are multiple possible explanations for that. Let's not jump to conclusions until we have more information.

GBSurveyor

July 1st, 2007, 05:23 AM

Astor
Not to mention half of the units were sold or at least pending, including a couple of the $1 million + units at the top.

I wonder if they were having trouble finding tenants for the mixed-use/commercial space at the base. Could this be a show-stopper? Nobody seemed real committed, except for A'Bravo way early on...then of course that business instead opened up in the suburbs somewhere.

River Center
Well, at least there's continuing good news on RiverCenter development. WBAY-TV did a good job with this video clip: http://www.wbay.com/ (they don't keep the video on for long so watch it while you can). They need to update some of their renderings though, they're still showing some of the early renders.
I just watched both of those clips... Did anyone notice that it was mentioned that construction was also about to begin on the Flatly Park project, Astor Place???

hckystr42

July 1st, 2007, 06:42 PM

GBsurveyor- Yes i also noticed that she said that work on flatley park would begin soon as well. That is Astor Place correct? Not to dissagree with what fillmore said, but could they still be going ahead with AP and perhaps just making the building shorter ~12 stories, which I would stilll like to see. Also, I keep reading in the Press Gazette and online that several businesses continue to show interest in moving to downtown and that several already have made there move to downtown. Other than APAC moving into the baylake center, have any other major businesses already made there move or is this like almost everything with downtown and it is just speculation and wont actually come to fruition.

honest86

July 1st, 2007, 09:03 PM

Was the boardwalk contingent to the Astor Place?? I don't think the city would make large investment if they didn't expect some sort of return(increased tax revenue)

GBSurveyor

July 2nd, 2007, 04:49 AM

I think Vetter realized that one of the main things holding back the sale of Astor condo units was that there was just too much junky shit surrounding the site. Not only is the old Younkers site a big pile of shit, then you also have acres & acres of defunct mall to look down on. The most fabulous home, if located in a crappy neighborhood, is always a hard sell.
I laughed my ass off when I read this. But is very true.

The other main problem was probably a soft real estate market where people wanting to move to Astor condo couldn't sell their existing house I think this may also be a deal breaker, however with the amount of people who put down $ on the belief that this joint was going to get built proves that there significant interest for this style of living. If I had to bet, if construction ever would get started you would see more people commit.

GBSurveyor

July 2nd, 2007, 04:59 AM

Was the boardwalk contingent to the Astor Place?? I don't think the city would make large investment if they didn't expect some sort of return(increased tax revenue)

It is my belief that the boardwalk is a done deal. The construction won't all happen at once and may only happen if there is increased development. I believe that there to be several funding sources with the bulk coming from TIF, however they have secured some cash in the form of grants, there is also the increment available from the Nicolet Bank and the Loft projects which didn't request TIF assistance. I also recall that the city gifted Vetter the flately site for like $10 and was to retain a good chunk of the increment for the boardwalk financing as well. Rivercenter site (younkers) was purchased for a sizeable amount of money, but I think that some of that $ was going to be used for immediate cash to start funding the boardwalk...
or at least that is what I seem to recall.

Puant

July 3rd, 2007, 04:52 AM

Was the boardwalk contingent to the Astor Place?? I don't think the city would make large investment if they didn't expect some sort of return(increased tax revenue)

The boardwalk is one of the main catalysts for almost all of the downtown development that we're seeing. It is in no way "just for Astor", although the boardwalk will certainly help develop that prime couple acres into something in the order of a $30-$50 million+ development. Without the boardwalk, we won't see nearly as much value on this site.

I think the more important thing for people to understand is: the Boardwalk is not just for the people who live in the condos on the river. It really will be the "front porch" for the entire city to enjoy. Everyone.

As an aside--
If you study places within cities which are consistently popular for a variety of reasons, they almost always have one thing in common: Not only are the buildings special, but the spaces inbetween them are just as important (and as high quality) as the buildings themselves. World-class cities achieve this status by working together as both public and private entities, each building on each other. In other words, the people are special too--they find a way to work together unselfishly for the benefit of the entire city.

Not sure why I'm thinking about this now...I haven't heard much squabbling in GB lately about the boardwalk (and the alleged illicit affair between the city and Vetter), but that debate driving me nuts because the constant bickering won't help us develop our city at all. We just get stuck in the cesspool of what Green Bay seems to have becomed accustomed to--mediocrity at best.

Danillo

July 3rd, 2007, 03:59 PM

^^ Puant, I don't think honest was saying that the boardwalk was for Astor Place, I think he was asking is Astor Place needed to be built in order for the boardwalk to go ahead.

GBSurveyor is correct that there will be several funding sources. If I'm not mistaken, the TIF from Nicolet Bank went to help with the new ramp, and I don't think there was any TIF generated from Riverfront Lofts. So, construction of the boardwalk will proceed as the remaining projects come "online." With River Center beginning, that will be a source of funds to start working on portions of the Boardwalk, and more will be able to be done as Astor Place begins, and some day site 4. There will also be money coming from grants and fundraising. Also, the Mayor believes that projects such as the Bellin Building improvements would not be happening without the boardwalk plan, and told me back last fall that he'd like to see some of the increment from projects like that be used for the boardwalk.

Green Bay roots

July 4th, 2007, 12:47 AM

i went to vetter and ask him about the refund for astor place and this was his response:

"Earlier in the sales campaign, if prospective Astor Place buyers changed
their mind - we would refund their reservation fee. However, we are no
longer taking reservations - only offers to purchase. We hope to meet
our sales goal by early fall with construction to follow. Have a good
Fourth!"

no more rumors now....no more jumping to conclusions. everything is right on schedule just like it was 6 months ago. hope everyone has a great fourth of july and a safe one at that

Puant

July 4th, 2007, 01:05 AM

^^Roots,
As always you provide very valuable information. Thanks again! I can still go to bed dreaming about a cool downtown Green Bay (what the hell is the matter with me??)

I still do stand by my comment that the cleanup & redevelopment of the adjacent properties will help spur Astor sales (obviously, right?).

To be Mr. Obvious again...Tomorrow is a big, big day for downtown...the biggest in the whole year in terms of people coming down to enjoy the 4th festivities. I'm glad that these people will see the construction cranes and stuff and be reassured that yes, things are looking up!

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in a revitalized downtown!

Green Bay roots

July 4th, 2007, 02:06 AM

u know puant...i want to ask you if you were going to be able to take some pictures sometime because i live in omaha now and rarely get back to the GBM oterh then 3-4 times a year. would that be cool if you took pictures like every first week of the month to show the progression? or maybe not that often but u know something to that affect. thanks. let me know what u think might fit your busy schedule ot take that time out every so often

GBSurveyor

July 4th, 2007, 03:10 AM

Danillo

July 4th, 2007, 03:59 AM

no more rumors now....no more jumping to conclusions. everything is right on schedule just like it was 6 months ago. hope everyone has a great fourth of july and a safe one at that

Well, I figured there was an explanation, but it did all seem odd, and you'd think a better explanation would have been given by the realtor. Thanks for the info.

The line about "everything is right on schedule just like it was 6 months ago" makes me laugh though. What was the schedule 6 months ago? Seems like the schedule changes every month or two. Oh well, I agree that action at River Center can only be a big boost to Astor Place, so hopefully we actually will see work begin for AP this fall. I can't wait!

hckystr42

July 5th, 2007, 01:14 AM

CivicMinded

July 5th, 2007, 01:43 AM

^^Interesting Welcome to this forum Hickystr42

Puant

July 5th, 2007, 06:30 AM

Just got home from the downtown festivities & fireworks.
I was very excited to see the new graphics that were hanging from the fences surrounding the construction site.

I snapped a pic with my phone camera (below). Then I snapped a picture from the top of the ferris wheel which is roughly the same view & angle.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/20070704RiverCenter.jpg

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/20070704YounkersFromFerrisWheel.jpg

P.S. there is a lot of cool new art starting to show up along the river walk now.

Geography Teacher

July 5th, 2007, 07:24 AM

Downtown was packed when I was down there this afternoon. Lots of people standing alone the fence trying to look in at the equpiment and such by younkers. Kind of reminded me of the rail birds at packer practices. Not to add any fuel to the rumor and speculation fire, but with regards to the mall. My dad work for shopko co. and they are continually meeting with the owner of bay park who is very interested in buying the property there headquarters is on next to the mall. well anyways, apparently he has finally put in a very attractive offer that shopko is considering and among the list of future sites for the corporate office was the mall downtown. my dad said they would demolish the mall and build and approx 10-15 story building. This is all just speculation for now, but I thought that would be a lot better than the mall sitting there.

This is a saucy rumor. My uneducated assumption is that (1) ShopKo's corporate headquarters isn't all that big and wouldn't fill 10-15 stories, (2) ShopKo isn't performing well enough these days to dump a bunch of money into a new high-rise headquarters, and (3) I think they want to be near their "flagship" store at Bay Park (I see suits in there all the time).

Now, maybe they would take a page from the Grand Union plan and sell/rent some of the space to other tenants to make this a feasible, and perhaps even profitable, project.

ShopKo has been a great friend to Green Bay and this would be one more gift to the community, adding a key employer into the urban scene.

historybuffer

July 5th, 2007, 04:11 PM

Shopko that would be a coup. And if you could get KI to move too then it might start to create the downtown investment momentum like Michigan's most successful turnaround city, Grand Rapids.

Danillo

July 5th, 2007, 04:48 PM

Puant, The renderings on that sign are great. That is EXACTLY the sort of look I was hoping for there. Hopefully things will stay along the lines of that. Thanks for the photos!

Wow, ShopKo downtown would be great. My initial assumption was the same as G T's, but we can dream, can't we?

hckystr42

July 5th, 2007, 09:47 PM

Puant- I also saw that river center sign hanging from a fence along the river. It was dark when I saw it and perhaps i just couldnt see it that well, but i remember reading and also seeing on the downtown vital website that there woudl be a 14 story section to the RC. Is that still going to happen or was the drawing on that fence just "phase 1" with the taller "phase 2" portion to come

titletown

July 6th, 2007, 02:26 AM

I too was downtown for the Fourth and it was a really nice atmosphere. I cannot wait to see the construction start. I am writing a script to a comedy movie right now and would like to feature Downtown Green Bay. I would like to see the riverfront developed more before I would consider to feature the downtown. This would be great recognition for the city as this movie is likely to be funnier then movies such as Office Space & Clerks.

Did anyone look at Prestige Park's website lately. Only 1 sale. They do have some new pictures including views from the top floors.

http://www.prestigeparktowers.com

http://www.prestigeparktowers.com/images/outside_view/01_West_View_539.jpg

Puant

July 7th, 2007, 03:27 PM

^^if it's comedy you're after, you could feature the city council :nuts:

hckystr42--The height of any of the parts of River Center depends on how much demand there is for office space here. Right now I'm not aware of anyone who plans to move in.

I find it odd that, given that work has actually started, R/C doesn't have a web site...There's not even mention of it on VetterDenk's web site (http://www.vetterdenk.com/). I've seen no ads in the paper either. Unlike Astor which has both types of advertisements. Maybe they could market R/C a little harder if they want to build tall.

P.S. on the Grand Union
I noticed in the paper today that the Grand Union already has 1/3 of the space reserved, including the top floor. They might actually be able to begin construction this fall, as originally hoped. The more I look at the design of this building, the more I like it. It blends in almost perfectly with the existing Meyer Theater around it, and it fits that street corner so well.

mjotist

July 10th, 2007, 02:32 AM

GBSurveyor

July 10th, 2007, 06:14 AM

Regarding the Grand Union, did you see the information regarding 1/3 of the builidng being reserved in the Press-Gazette? If so, I can't seem to find it.
I agree that it would be a wonderful compliment to the Meyer and the Bellin Building.
I saw an ad running in the sunday paper (Page A-7) which mentioned floor 5, 6 & 9 have been reserved, that may equal 1/3. I didn't see any other mention.

Also noticed on A-10, that Astor Place Condo's were having an open house at the New Astor Place Showroom and design center, located 301 Main Ave. DePere...so they are still chugging along with sales. Hadn't the previous showroom been in the Riverfront Lofts?

mjotist

July 11th, 2007, 03:58 AM

Thanks for the info on the Grand Union. I typically read the paper on-line which would be why I didn't see the ad.

Puant

July 12th, 2007, 04:39 AM

^^ Yes, thanks GB surveyor, I was basing the Grand Union (http://www.thegranduniongb.com/) info on what I saw in the newspaper ad, too. I know the top floor is less sq. footage than some of the lower floors, but the first floor is also less, so I think that what's reserved has got to be close to 1/3 of the available space.

On another note:: Those of you who hated that stupid Washington Street Mall overpass will be happy to know it's already coming down!! The Younkers building got the news but I saw today that a big chunk of that overpass is also already down.

gbmphillips

July 12th, 2007, 07:25 PM

Going across the Main St bridge I saw this quick snapped a couple of pictures. Also noticed they were tearing down the walkway between the mall and Pranges.

http://newffl.net/images/younkers1.jpg

http://newffl.net/images/younkers2.jpg

Geography Teacher

July 12th, 2007, 11:17 PM

Here's the article to go with GBMPhillips' pictures!

Gone: The Y from Younkers sign

By Stephanie Brien
sbrien@greenbaypressgazette.com

A small crowd along the Fox River cheered as the Y from the Younkers sign was ripped from the top of the old five-story department store this morning and a hole was ripped into the west wall of the building

The symbolic gesture was part of the River Center development project that will feature rental lofts, condominiums, retail space and a children’s museum along the river.

The project has been under construction for almost four weeks but the demolition of the Younkers building formally began today with what developer John Vetter called a “greenbreaking.”

By diverting more than 80 percent of the building material from landfills, Vetter said crews will reuse as much material as they can. That includes maintaining the structural beams in the Younkers building and using old brick to fill in shallow areas on the building site.

When the lofts are complete, they will feature a partial green roof, which consists of vegetation that helps divert rainwater runoff.

Construction on the River Center rental loft apartments are scheduled to start in mid-August and be completed in late summer 2008. The Children’s Museum of Green Bay will begin construction this fall and is expected to open in fall 2008 along with a new riverfront boardwalk.

Puant

July 13th, 2007, 03:32 AM

...and here's a picture of that walkway overpass being torn down. Nice to see that hideous awning ripped off and crumpled up.
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o52/Puant/2007July11181.jpg

thanks Jeff

Fillmore

July 13th, 2007, 03:54 PM

Great pics Puant, thanks!!!
Am I the only one getting the run-around here? Is the Younkers demolition exclusively for the River Center? Why did I receive a refund check from the AP realtor? Can someone please explain what in the Vince Lombardi is going on here?:ohno:

Geography Teacher

July 13th, 2007, 04:46 PM

Green Bay 4 Life

July 13th, 2007, 10:22 PM

·Regarding the mall, a formal proposal was received and an offer was made to Baylake Bank. There will be meetings scheduled with the developer in the future.

·Champions Sports Bar is now open.

·Cambria Suites hopes to open the end of August.

·The unveiling of the name and logo for the Boardwalk should be the week of July 23.

hckystr42

July 13th, 2007, 10:32 PM

green bay 4 life-

Thanks for that info from the meeting. It will be interesting to see what develops with the company making an offer for the mall. All i can say is i hope they demolish the mall and rebuild something a lot bigger and better.

Green Bay roots

July 13th, 2007, 11:04 PM

well, from what this says to me is that if you have put in for a reservation, they was a fee to do that. now astor place has gone to a phase of the develepment process that if the reservation has not turned into a sale yet that the reservation fee is being refunded and is now open again for a new buyer. i am just speculating becuase that was an e-mail i received from Mr. Vetter and to me makes sense. i'm not sure what Fillmore's situation was with the condo project as far as buying but this is my best guess.

Puant and gbmphillips, thanks for the pictures. it's hard being so far away and trying to visualize the progression. thanks again and please keep it up.

Puant

July 14th, 2007, 03:28 AM

Puant and gbmphillips, thanks for the pictures. it's hard being so far away and trying to visualize the progression. thanks again and please keep it up.

Keep checking my "web album" below for updates. Hell I'm getting so excited I just might even start up the blog thing again..

GBSurveyor

July 14th, 2007, 07:30 AM

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2441.jpg
Remember Washington Commons?
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2443.jpg
Coming Soon
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2444.jpg
looking up
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2445.jpg
Store Hours
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2446.jpg
Creepy Tunnel
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2447.jpg
Secret Passage
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2449.jpg
In need of repair
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2450.jpg
Waiting for action
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2453.jpg
Green Bay landmark
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2454.jpg
Astor Place Ad
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2457.jpg
Vetterville?
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2458.jpg
back alley
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2480.jpg
Nicolet Frog
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2483.jpg
Current Skyline...
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2486.jpg
a fish in transition?
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2487.jpg
Hopefully the next project?
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n213/gbsurveyor/DSC_2489.jpg
Almost gone...

Puant

July 16th, 2007, 04:23 AM

GBSurveyor,
I like the pictures & comments. I especially like "Vetterville".

Danillo

July 16th, 2007, 05:51 PM

I made it to the "green breaking" for River Center on Thursday. Good to see. First up, a couple of links to video clips I took of the action:

Clip 1 - Down comes the Younker's sign (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTAr-cRBgRo)

Clip 2 - Watch for falling bricks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wr12j3Vudw)

Also, a few photos:

http://www.uwgb.edu/moored/demo1.jpg

http://www.uwgb.edu/moored/demo2.jpg

http://www.uwgb.edu/moored/demo3.jpg

http://www.uwgb.edu/moored/demo4.jpg

http://www.uwgb.edu/moored/demo5.jpg

titletown

July 17th, 2007, 06:37 PM

http://cmsimg.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=U0&Date=20070717&Category=GPG0101&ArtNo=707170505&Ref=AR&Profile=1207&MaxW=600

gbbear2117

July 21st, 2007, 01:48 PM

quick question - does anyone know who the structural engineer is for either river center or astor place?

GBSurveyor

July 21st, 2007, 02:18 PM

quick question - does anyone know who the structural engineer is for either river center or astor place?

So far all I have heard of is KBS Construction (http://www.kbsconstruction.com/projects_astor.html), not sure what if any design support they are providing.

gbbear2117

July 21st, 2007, 03:34 PM

thanks a lot, i'm a first time poster and a long time reader (since the first thread). i'm going to be a high school senior and i'm really interested in architecture and structural engineering, i was actually trying to figure out if i could do some volunteer work for the engineer or architect. it will help for two reasons, first because it will be good experience and second, cause it gives me a great excuse to be on the site watching the construction. thanks for the help gbsurveyor!

Green Bay roots

July 21st, 2007, 05:48 PM

gbbear2117....with VetterDenk being the construction manager for both projects, they should have had all the engineering and architectural support in house. construction management firms are not to common place right now but they are truely becoming the wave of construction. vetterdenk is out of milwaukee.

sr22ger

July 24th, 2007, 05:23 AM

Some positive news about the Daily Planet site...
http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=6828560
When the Meyer Theater board unveiled the "Grand Union" plans about six weeks ago, they hoped for a lot of interest. But they're surprised to have nearly half the space reserved already.

Steve Seidl, who's in charge of marketing and finding prospective tenants, says the location and image of the building are big draws to a young crowd of entrepreneurs.

"The most likely prospects for this seem to be the younger set of executive people who are in the growth mode of their business. They see the benefit of having a nice location for recruitment and for prospective clientele to visit," Seidl said.

One big selling point, according to Seidl, is that the Meyer is the mastermind behind the whole thing. The meyer is non-profit, so that should keep the selling price low.

"The Meyer does not need to generate a lot of money to do this like a independent developer would. So the pricing that we have, while it's not cheap, is less expensive by far than it would be if we were trying to do this with a conventional developer," Seidl said.

Seidl expects to finalize deals with one or two more businesses next month and break ground this fall.

Green Bay 4 Life

July 24th, 2007, 02:27 PM

^^ Sweet. Now that's the way to do it Green Bay. Vision, proposal, locking up tenants, and starting construction in a short period of time... Hope to see many people at the Boardwalk naming announcement @ 2:00 PM today. Go Green Bay.:cheers:

GBSurveyor

July 25th, 2007, 01:22 AM

Posted today in the Press gazette...Link (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070724/GPG03/707240507/1247/GPGbusiness)

Its amasing how far away this Business Park seems from the main core of Brown County. The only significant reason I posted this is because this is the first property to be deveolped in the park. It will be intersting to see how this park develops as time goes on. New Jobs are always great.

Posted July 24, 2007

Algoma company moving its headquarters to Green Bay

WS Packaging is first tenant in University Heights Business Park

By Richard Ryman
rryman@greenbaypressgazette.com

More space and better access to transportation were among the reasons WS Packaging Group decided to move its headquarters from Algoma to Green Bay.

WS Packaging is the first announced new tenant in the University Heights Business Park on Wisconsin 54/57 on the city's far northeast side.

Jay Tomcheck, chief financial officer for the printing and label-converting company, said about 65 corporate employees will be at the Green Bay office. He said construction on the $4 million, 20,000-square-foot project will begin in late summer or early fall with an eye toward occupancy in May 2008.
The Green Bay Economic Development Authority is expected to approve the sale of 4.75 acres in the business park to WS Packaging on Wednesday. It will meet at 4 p.m. in Room 207 in City Hall.

The City Council is expected to vote on the sale in August.

In all, WS Packaging will purchase 5.7 acres, the remainder from a group led by the Madigan family, which is co-developing the business park with the city.
Allison Swanson, city economic development director, said she expects the sale to be approved. WS Packaging will pay $50,000 an acre.

"A company of their caliber is a great asset for the greater Green Bay area," said Green Bay Mayor Jim Schmitt. "In a competitive national market, it's imperative that we keep our national companies located right here in Wisconsin."
The building will be on the northwest corner of Wisconsin 54 and Hemlock Road. Tomcheck said the site will be convenient for employees — it's about 24 miles to Algoma on Wisconsin 54 — and for frequent visitors to the company who use Austin Straubel International Airport in Ashwaubenon.

"It's a little bit of driving for everyone, but not so difficult our Algoma employees would leave us," Tomcheck said.

Tomcheck said the move will give the company room for expansion at both sites. The new corporate headquarters will be expandable, and the extra space in Algoma created by the move can be filled with other functions.
"We can bring on more customer services in Algoma," he said.

WS Packaging Group Inc. was formed in October 2000 with the merger of Wisconsin Label Corp., founded in 1966, and Superior Label Systems Inc., founded in 1970. The company has grown by aggressive acquisition of other printing and label companies. It now has 1,750 full-time employees — including 450 in Algoma — at 16 manufacturing facilities in the United States, one in Mexico, and at 85 sales offices. It hires a large number of part-time employees, Tomcheck said.

In 2006, privately owned WS Packaging received a Wisconsin Manufacturer of the Year award in the high-tech category. It has won multiple Manufacturing Awards of Distinction sponsored by the Green Bay Area Chamber of Commerce, and this year was nominated for a Business Friend of the Environment award.