Edited with latest images...


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/HeathrowEast1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/HeathrowEast2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/HeathrowEast3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/HeathrowEast4.jpg

Original post...I have just prepared this image of Heathrow East from the PDF file in JGG's signature. It's our first large rendering of Norman Foster's 30 million pax capacity Heathrow East project that will hopefully replace terminals 1 and 2 by 2011. My apologies for offering it in two halves. Photobucket won't allow me to post such a large single image:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/HeathrowEast1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/HeathrowEast2.jpg


Heathrow East will accommodate 30 million passengers per year and is located at the eastern end of the airport opposite the new Terminal 5 currently under construction:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6872/heathrowworkshp3.jpg

Fabulous. Won't be ready by 2012 though.

^ Why not? They have already applied for planning permission, it can't be held up in the same way as HT5 owing to legal changes, and it's planned by BAA to be ready for 2011. BAA are doing a fantastic job of delivering HT5 according to construction schedule so I see no reasons for technical delays either.

It looks fantastic. When do you think the area between T5 and new T2 will be developed?

If new T2 becomes 'Heathrow East' do you think T5 will become 'Heathrow West'?

^ LOL yes. I wondered the same thing. Terminal 4 could become Heathrow South I suppose? :dunno:

When Terminal 5 and Heathrow East are both on line, they should demolish everything in between and build a replacement for Terminal 3, maximising the available space (i.e. piers parallel to T5 and HE). When that's open they should decommission Terminal 4 - this would vastly improve transport links, as both the Piccadilly line and Heathrow Express would become a straightforward service pattern without any branching, and the three terminal buildings could be connected underground by the same system currently linking T5 with its satellites. The efficiency of airport operations would also be greatly improved, as currently aircraft from T4 wanting to use 09L/27R have to cross 09R/27L.

Heathrow East is just a project name. There is nothing to say that it will be the terminal's name. I contacted someone in charge of development at Heathrow and at the moment there are no plans for any other major improvements of current terminals.

Looks like there is a lot of space for expansion!

can someone tell me why the terminal is to one side...ie the south, what fills that gap? to the north, a car park?

When T5 opens all the airlines will be shuffling about. This leaves T2 empty.
T2 and the Queens building occupy most of what will be the Heathrow East Terminal The big gap is currently occupied by T1. Once this is demolished it leaves a big gap. There have been no announced plans for the site. But BAA has said it would like to put a hotel in the Central Terminal area. Anything from Offices to relocating the carparks could be done here. But if you were of a suspicious frame, and plenty of people around the airport are. After the new terminal opens BAA could come back with a new application to expand the terminal so you could redevelop T3 and maximise capacity in the central area.

Exactly. I'm slightly cynical that BAA would want to spend billions of pounds just to improve the "passenger experience". It seems it's an added bonus but BAA is a business and the fact that 68 million people use the airport each year in pretty poor conditions shows that the passenger experience isn't going to hugely affect profits. Heathrow East will have a more modern design, probably meaning greater levels of efficiency with less staff and quicker throughputs - as well as more environmentally friendly, allowing for later expansion.

In a rapidly growing airport, there seems no logical reason to lower capacity anywhere - unless it's to push through a scheme which will make future expansion far easier.

it does look like a future terminal expansion could take place there. I'm all for it, Heathrow really does need to be flattened and started again all be it gradually, so London can truly say it has a world class aiport. Maybe Gatwick should start thinking about modernising its rather dated airports too.

stansted is the future

I agree Gatwick is going to seem very outdated compared to the new Heathrow and also Stansted.

Gatwick will suffer long term with no direct fast road into central London and the possibility that it could lose the Gatwick Express.

Why will it lose the Gatwick Express?

The main line between London and Brighton is too busy. One suggestion is to merge the Gatwick Express with comuter trains effectively axing the dedicated service. Although it is not a done deal there remains a serious threat to the Gatwick Express.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/4676388.stm
http://news.cheapflights.co.uk/flights/2006/01/stay_of_executi.html

What I think would be better would be to create a Brighton - London Gatwick - East Croydon - London Victoria service instead.

Commuters and Gatwick passengers sharing the same train carraiges, I wouldn't say that was better especially in the morning rush hour. All those jumbo's arriving first thing from the states and dumped onto commuter trains from Brighton. A fine welcome to Britain.

They could have dedicated carriages that are locked until Gatwick

Has anyone posted this presentation yet?
http://baa.com/assets/B2CPortal/Static%20Files/Nov05HeathrowEastpresentation.pdf

Wasn't there another rendering showing the Heathrow East terminal from the air?

You mean this one? (excuse the mark-ups)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6872/heathrowworkshp3.jpg

Wasn't there another rendering showing the Heathrow East terminal from the air?

I can't find it online but it's shown at the New London Architecture exhibition.

Basically the jaggy edged bumpy ceiling in a rectangular box.

http://www.heathrowairport.com/assets/B2CPortal/Static%20Files/forecourt_external_wide.jpg

http://www.heathrowairport.com/assets/B2CPortal/Static%20Files/AerialShotHET_wide.jpg

There is a video here (http://www.heathrowairport.com/portal/controller/dispatcher.jsp?CiID=4345e8423544c010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____&CtID=448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____&Ct=B2C_CT_GENERAL&RootCh=About%20BAA%20Heathrow&Ch=Heathrow+East+DVD&ChID=04a5cd7f3f34c010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____&ChPath=LHR%5EAbout+BAA+Heathrow%5EHeathrow+East%5EHeathrow+East+DVD&ChIDPath=bde597dc2eb12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____%5E815797dc2eb12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____%5E2d56a2811d93c010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____%5E04a5cd7f3f34c010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____)

There is a video here (http://www.heathrowairport.com/portal/controller/dispatcher.jsp?CiID=4345e8423544c010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____&CtID=448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____&Ct=B2C_CT_GENERAL&RootCh=About%20BAA%20Heathrow&Ch=Heathrow+East+DVD&ChID=04a5cd7f3f34c010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____&ChPath=LHR%5EAbout+BAA+Heathrow%5EHeathrow+East%5EHeathrow+East+DVD&ChIDPath=bde597dc2eb12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____%5E815797dc2eb12010VgnVCM100000147e120a____%5E2d56a2811d93c010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____%5E04a5cd7f3f34c010VgnVCM10000036821c0a____)

I didn't realise so many urlines used Heathrow Urport :)

The Times November 11, 2005


BAA plans replacement for Heathrow Terminal 2
By Angela Jameson, Industrial Correspondent



BAA, the airports operator, is planning to spend £1.5 billion building a new Heathrow terminal to replace its oldest facilities in time for the 2012 Olympics.
Terminal 2 and office buildings that were opened by the Queen 50 years ago have been earmarked for demolition to allow building on Heathrow’s second major new terminal in five years to start in 2009.



The new terminal, dubbed Heathrow East, would handle 30 million passengers a year and would be designed for use by the Star Alliance airlines, which include Lufthansa and BMI, and by Virgin Atlantic. Eventually the new facilities will allow BAA to close Terminal 1, its second oldest terminal.

The project could be completed in three years without disruption to passengers or airlines, BAA claims, because of new capacity made available by Terminal 5, which will open before work starts.

“Very early indications are that an incremental net cost of £1 billion to £1.5 billion would be required to deliver the development,” BAA said in a statement. Mick Temple, managing director of Heathrow, said that the cost would come on top of £5.2 billion already earmarked to be spent on Heathrow over the next ten years.

Passengers travelling through the new facility could find small cinemas, casinos, fine dining and plenty of shops. “It’s an opportunity to put some real enjoyment back into air travel and to take out some of the anxiety that has crept in for our passengers,” Mr Temple said.

However, the whole project could be derailed by a lengthy public inquiry of the sort that put back the building of Terminal 5 by ten years.

BAA hopes to persuade the Government and Hillingdon council, the local planning authority, that a public inquiry would be unnecessary because the new building would not add extra capacity for flights or passengers to the West London airport, already the world’s busiest. Whether an inquiry should be held will ultimately be decided by Alistair Darling, the Transport Secretary.

Mr Temple said: “We want to start a discussion with the public and with our airline customers about what is needed. We will also be talking to the planning authority and Mr Darling about whether an inquiry is needed.

“This is the opportunity to do what people have been demanding for years — to knock it down and start again,” Mr Temple said.

Heathrow has long been criticised for its poor facilities and the inferior quality of its older terminals, which have very low ceilings and little natural light and are difficult for passengers to find their way through.

“We are excited by the idea of Heathrow East, but at the moment it is still just an idea. We aim to discuss the possibilities with our airlines and the Civil Aviation Authority to see if we can make it a reality,” Mr Temple said.

BAA is spending £4.2 billion building Terminal 5, which will be used solely by British Airways. Heathrow East would cost only between £1 billion and £1.5 billion because there will be no need to build new transport links to London Underground and the Heathrow Express.

AIRPORT SPREADING ITS WINGS

Heathrow today

More than 67 million passengers this year

1.2 million passengers in 1953

468,000 flights a year

90 airlines flying to 170 destinations


£10 billion earned each year from overseas visitors

30 million visitors to London each year

68,000 jobs generated directly

200,000 further jobs, related to Heathrow

Heathrow tomorrow

2007 planning submitted for Heathrow East

2008 Terminal 5 opens

2009 work on Heathrow East starts

2012 Heathrow East opens

... lengthy public inquiry of the sort that put back the building of Terminal 5 by ten years...

I`ll always think of that as some strange joke, it was just a terminal building! 10 years!!! You would expect that for a brand new airport of some sort of 200 year vision for the direction of transport for the whole country! Not a building for rest rooms and duty free.

What are the buildings in the middle, They should do them as well and the airport would be miles more efficient.

The architecture of Heathrow East looks miles better than T5 (and I like T5).

What are the buildings in the middle, They should do them as well and the airport would be miles more efficient.

Terminals 1 and 3.

BAA's budget is only finite. Terminal 1 will be gradually withdrawn with the construction of Heathrow East whilst Terminal 3 will have some limited improvements. Yes, T3 is a dump and should be improved but this would be far more expensive and difficult than Heathrow East as because of T5, T2 will only be handling about 1.5 million passengers in 2009, whilst in that year T3 will be handling 15 million passengers that would be need to be relocated during constuction work.

So can T3 ever be replaced?

If they build a third runway and therefore build a new terminal 6, then they could redevelop terminal 3 then.

Heathrow is far better located for the South East of England and London than Stansted. For tourists, it takes too long to get into London from Stansted too (45 minutes vs 15 minutes).

Heathrow is far better located for the South East of England and London than Stansted. For tourists, it takes too long to get into London from Stansted too (45 minutes vs 15 minutes).

Agreed, heathrow for tourist and buisness user's for London. Stansted for Northeast London and East Anglia. I live 20 minutes from Stansted and understandably it it's my prefered airport. I would hate to have to travel from anywhere else.

Hi. Took these today at the 'London Moving' exhibition at the Building Centre. Well worth a look for those who haven't been. Plenty of big renders and a few great models on display.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h126/wildheart99/100_1708.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h126/wildheart99/100_1709.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h126/wildheart99/100_1710.jpg

They've both already been posted on here, but it's easier to make out the detail when they're bigger.

Do you think HSBC will pay for the entire roof to be covered in their logo for all the planes flying over head to see...?

Haha, well, they've already plastered their logo on every available space at Heathrow, so i guess foster designed the roof especially for them ;)

It's amazing!

The thought that someone actually suggested that Heathrow should be closed is outrageous.

Thanks for the images Wild@Heart. :okay:

Its actually beautiful isnt it...well I never

quite, nearly on par with Shangi's new terminal -- should transform the old rat warren, so to speak. Now all we need is T1 demolished, T3 remodelled, and T4 cleaned up/refurbished. T6 will be iconic too, however i hope that it does not go ahead due to environmental concerns with runway number 3 -- silly old willie walsh.

^ It's much more impressive than Changi's new terminal. So is HT5.

Hi. Took these today at the 'London Moving' exhibition at the Building Centre. Well worth a look for those who haven't been. Plenty of big renders and a few great models on display.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h126/wildheart99/100_1708.jpg

They've both already been posted on here, but it's easier to make out the detail when they're bigger.

The columns look rather gothical - I would have been more inclined to expect this sort of design in somewhere like Barcelona, rather that London. That's not a complaint, I do rather like it.

quite, nearly on par with Shangi's new terminal -- should transform the old rat warren, so to speak. Now all we need is T1 demolished, T3 remodelled, and T4 cleaned up/refurbished. T6 will be iconic too, however i hope that it does not go ahead due to environmental concerns with runway number 3 -- silly old willie walsh.

Runway 3 will come, don't worry. But first mixed mode. Did it not strike you that one of very few specific proposals in the Eddington report was mixed mode? He hailed it as one of these small investments that have a major impact. And nobody can disagree with that! (whether you like the impact or not is something else, but at least it is good for the economy)

By the way, it pisses me off that they don't yet have planning permission for the T1-T2 replacement - I just wonder why this is taking so much time again and again. There should be nothing controversial about it because they slightly cut the capacity of these terminals, the new building is much more environmentally friendly and most importantly people that arrive in the UK will no longer be mistaken about the fact it is London and not some third-world-city.

Don't worry, I'm sure it will come soon enough. However, I see a fight for mixed mode, the residents will be up in arms, with direct action, the courts will be involved, don't get your hopes up.

Runway 3 will come, don't worry. But first mixed mode. Did it not strike you that one of very few specific proposals in the Eddington report was mixed mode? He hailed it as one of these small investments that have a major impact. And nobody can disagree with that! (whether you like the impact or not is something else, but at least it is good for the economy)

By the way, it pisses me off that they don't yet have planning permission for the T1-T2 replacement - I just wonder why this is taking so much time again and again. There should be nothing controversial about it because they slightly cut the capacity of these terminals, the new building is much more environmentally friendly and most importantly people that arrive in the UK will no longer be mistaken about the fact it is London and not some third-world-city.They only just applied for planning permission! The process can take a year. However, owing to new legislation, there can be no repeat of the marathon HT5 planning inquiry. I believe the whole process must be determined within a year. BAA have allowed for that.

Now all we need is T1 demolished,

T1 is getting demolished once Heathrow East is built:)

They only just applied for planning permission! The process can take a year. However, owing to new legislation, there can be no repeat of the marathon HT5 planning inquiry. I believe the whole process must be determined within a year. BAA have allowed for that.

A year! For what? To approve the obvious? I think planning in the UK should be reformed massively.

T1 is not too bad actually, in comparison to T3.

A year! For what? To approve the obvious? I think planning in the UK should be reformed massively.A year for all the opposition to be heard and considered - including a possible public inquiry. This is a huge improvment over HT5 where the planning inquiry dragged on for four years (the longest in British history).

And it will be, hopefully, with the introduction of the new independent Planning comittee mentioned in Brown pre budget report..

T1 is not too bad actually, in comparison to T3.

If you are checking in through BA's designated executive club area.

It looks like the planning permission is imminent now... it has been recommended by Hillingdon Council for approval.

http://www.hillingdon.gov.uk/central/democracy/comm_reports/other_decisions/south_plan/min_south_plan_03apr07.pdf

This is great news... Terminal 1 and 2 are a disgrace for London and it seems everything is on plan to have a new terminal building finished before the London 2012 Olympics. Add to that the expansion of T3 which is happening right now, the opening of T5 and the subsequent refurbishment of T4 and Heathrow will start to look like a "first world" airport.

Green light for new 'eco-friendly' Heathrow terminal

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4278/aerialshothetwidewk1.jpg

Planning permission for a £1.5 billion "environmentally sensitive" redevelopment of the UK's biggest airport was granted today.

The go-ahead for a new terminal at Heathrow airport in west London was given by London Mayor Ken Livingstone and Hillingdon Council.

The new terminal, called Heathrow East, will replace the existing Terminals 1 and 2, with the first phase of the work expected to be completed in time for the London Olympics in 2012.

Airport operator BAA today boasted of the "green" credentials of the new terminal and said the planning go-ahead was "great news for passengers".

Mr Livingstone said all the parties had agreed on a scheme "that puts energy efficiency and renewables at the heart of plans for a new Heathrow terminal".

Heathrow East is part of a £6.2 billion, 10-year investment programme to transform Heathrow.

This includes the opening of Terminal 5 in March 2008, a refurbishment of Terminal 4 and the eventual demolition of Terminal 1 and Terminal 2.

BAA chief executive Tony Douglas said today: "I'm delighted that we've got the green light for Heathrow East. This is great news for passengers. By June 2012, most of our passengers will be travelling through terminal facilities that aren't even open today and we will have either re-built or redeveloped all our other terminals.

"Heathrow will be like a new airport for London."

More here: http://www.24dash.com/news/2/21294/index.htm

Great news! Heathrow is practically reinventing itself in the space of a decade. T1+T2 being replaced by Heathrow East in by 2016, Terminal 3 being refurbished and Terminal 5 opening in 2008.

Great news! I thought this was going to take longer to approve?

Imagine the airport, it will have a Rogers AND a Fosters terminal!:)

I wonder who will be asked to design T6?

Good news. Next step Crossrail and the new runways - though we'll probably have to wait for Gordon Brown to take over as PM for the former.

great news! Heathrow really needs some inovations

Great news, like Monkey says next up I think is a couple more runways and better rail and road links - will virtually be a new airport.

Great news for london and the London Olympics!

I second the call for Crossrail to be next.

BAA themselves are calling Heathrow post-2012 'new', due to the massive changes they're implementing. Its all quite exciting and maybe now people will enjoy transferring through Heathrow, instead of Frankfurt, Amsterdam or Paris :banana:

^ What London needs to regain status as a hub is an extra runway at Heathrow. Until then all the airlines using Heathrow will primarily be serving point-to-point traffic. BA have switched their model from being a hub airline to a premium point-to-point airline.

^ What London needs to regain status as a hub is an extra runway at Heathrow. Until then all the airlines using Heathrow will primarily be serving point-to-point traffic. BA have switched their model from being a hub airline to a premium point-to-point airline.

I don't understand. What's the difference and why is one better than another?

Anyone know what the eco credentials are? I'd be very interested to see as this could be a landmark building.

Will there be solar panels on that massive roof? Or what about channelling some wind into turbines? Such a large expanse could be an ideal green roof. There will be massive water run-off without. Will this grey water be collected and used? What about heating and cooling? Such large open spaces are difficult to heat. Will it be cooled naturally? What about using sustainable materials?

It's perfect timing both technology and politically wise. This building could really proove that eco works. So far I haven't seen a jot of detail as to what 'eco friendly' means here.

I don't understand. What's the difference and why is one better than another?A hub is where passengers are transferred from one flight to another. BA's business model used to revolve around transferring passengers between its trans-Atlantic flights and those to Europe, the Middle East, and India. This worked in reverse too. Passengers from Europe/Middle East/India would transfer at the Heathrow hub onto BA's unparalleled trans-Atlantic services. The lack of additional runway capacity has meant that BA has been unable to keep pace with other European airlines such as Air France, Lufthansa, KLM etc who now offer more frequent and convenient connections at their hubs than BA does through Heathrow. BA has therefore shifted its emphasis towards point-to-point traffic (ie passengers starting or ending their journeys in London). They also target premium traffic more than they used to. This way BA has been able to squeeze the maximum profit out of the limited runway slots available. Heathrow has needed a third runway for two decades now and is being forced ever more into as corner by the continuing failure of the government to approve one. Other airlines at Heathrow primarily operate point-to-point services in any case (Virgin Atlantic, for instance, is 100% long-haul) though there is some potential for hub connections through the alliances. For instance a United Airlines passenger coming from Chicago can change at Heathrow to a Lufthansa flight to Munich (Lufthansa and United are Star Alliance partners).

This is all I could find:-

"A variety of methods are being considered to keep carbon dioxide emissions to a minimum, including using renewable energy sources, low energy systems and reduced artificial lighting. Heat generated within the building could be used to drive the ventilation, possibly as part of an integrated strategy for combined cooling, heating and power (CCHP). Water consumption – a major headache in the recent droughts for London and the south-east – will be minimised, with initiatives such as rooftop collection or an independent borehole to reduce demand on the mains supply. The approach to waste will likewise be environmentally driven, involving both attempts at waste reduction to minimise the problem in the first place coupled with a major on-site recycling scheme."

All good, but a bit un-ambitious.

Does anybody know an official timetable??

I would assume once everybody who is due to move to T5 have done they will be able to start?? Then how longs demolition & construction etc.

I would imagine if T5 opens next year that doesn't give a great deal of time for it to be complete for July 2012.

According to this (http://www.baa.com/assets/B2CPortal/Static%20Files/Nov05HeathrowEastpresentation.pdf), "any replacement terminal would not begin construction until January 2009... Construction would be aimed for 2012 - with the possibility it could complement Heathrow as the appropriate gateway to the Olympic Games".

Phase 1 (whatever that means) will be open for the London 2012 Olympics.

Click on this to get a brief overview on all the LHR developments for the next 5 years. http://www.heathrowairport.com/assets//B2CPortal/Static%20Files/Heathrow_a_New_Airport.pdf

Now that they have this planning permission in their pocket, they can file their R3 and T6 as well as their mixed mode applications. I would expect this for the Summer. The Heathrow East decision is really great news.

A new airport for London. Heathrow’s transformation timeline:

Heathrow East is part of a £6.2 billion ten year investment programme to transform Heathrow.

2007 – Completion of the first phase of a major upgrade of Terminal 3, with the re-design and modernisation of the departures forecourts. This work significantly improves check-in facilities, pedestrian routes, and traffic congestion. A £1 billion upgrade of the entire terminal is planned over the next ten years.

2008 – Terminal 5 opens. The new terminal will provide world-class facilities and will be the first major new terminal at Heathrow for over 20 years. Extensions to the Piccadilly Line and the Heathrow Express also open. Airlines are relocated by alliance partner to provide quicker transfers for passengers. Terminal 2 demolition starts. Terminal 1 is refurbished to improve service, until Heathrow East is fully open, including new check-in area, baggage reclaim and arrivals concourse.

2009 – Refurbishment of Terminal 4 complete. This includes increasing the amount of natural light entering the building; improving check-in and baggage facilities; and improving departure lounges.

2010 – Terminal 5’s second satellite building opens, linked to the other Terminal 5 buildings by an underground transit system.

2012 – Phase 1 of Heathrow East opens in time for the Olympics in 2012. Most passengers will be travelling through terminals that weren’t open in 2007. All existing terminals will have been refurbished.

All of these developments are designed to improve service to passengers. None of these terminal improvements has any impact on Heathrow’s existing operating restrictions, including the cap on flights of 480,000 per year. BAA’s capital investment programme is subject to the regulatory authorities delivering the stable regulatory system and sensible financial incentives necessary to deliver these plans.

Great news. I hate Terminals 1 and 2! How many will it accomodate?

^^ About the same as Terminals 1 and 2 - about 30mppa rather than 35mppa as at present. Of course T5 more than makes up for the difference!

^ 30 million.

You got there first Chris. The design capacity of terminals 1 and 2 is of course far less than 35 million.

So we are going to have Heathrow East....for the old terminals 1 and 2 are we gonna end up with T3-5 being named as a directional rather than a number????

whats the refurbishment of terminal 4 going to look like? any images?

So we are going to have Heathrow East....for the old terminals 1 and 2 are we gonna end up with T3-5 being named as a directional rather than a number????

Heathrow East is the project name, it is not the name of the new terminal.

whats the refurbishment of terminal 4 going to look like? any images?

Although several T3 images have been released, I can't find any for T4. BAA says (http://www.heathrowairport.com/portal/page/LHR%5EAbout+BAA+Heathrow%5EHeathrow+transformation%5ETerminal+3+and+4+redevelopment/e5fdbdb5189f1110VgnVCM10000036821c0a____/448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____/), "We will look to increase the amount of natural light entering the building, improve the facilities for check-in and build modern departure lounges."

Although several T3 images have been released, I can't find any for T4. BAA says (http://www.heathrowairport.com/portal/page/LHR%5EAbout+BAA+Heathrow%5EHeathrow+transformation%5ETerminal+3+and+4+redevelopment/e5fdbdb5189f1110VgnVCM10000036821c0a____/448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____/), "We will look to increase the amount of natural light entering the building, improve the facilities for check-in and build modern departure lounges."

thanks I looked in the same places.. couldnt find anything. whatever they do it will be an improvement.

Heathrow East is the project name, it is not the name of the new terminal.

my misunderstanding.............
:nuts:

Should the Terminal One Building be demolished along with Terminal Two to make way for the Heathrow East project?

A year! For what? To approve the obvious? I think planning in the UK should be reformed massively.

They're not going to be doing anything with T1+2 anyway until T5 is up and running and then they can shuffle all the planes around etc.

That's why they've applied for planning permission now - in case it does take a year they should still get it before T5 opens.

It has been approved already anyway.

Very nice. Better than T5, imo.

Flying back from Accra yesterday I noticed a few adverts for the new terminal at T4.

I always said it won't be ready for 2012.

Heathrow East already more than six months late
11 February, 2008
By Dan Stewart
Reports claim £1.5bn airport terminal will not be ready for 2012 Games

BAA’s new terminal at Heathrow is already between six and fifteen months behind schedule, it has emerged.





Media reports at the weekend claimed that Heathrow East, which was intended to be the airport’s "Olympic terminal", will not be ready in time for the 2012 Games.
The £1.5bn terminal has been designed by Foster + Partners and will be built by Laing O’Rourke and BAA owner Ferrovial.

A source told one newspaper: “They have underestimated the extent of the work that is involved.”

BAA would not say whether or not Heathrow East would be completed on time, but a spokesperson said it was the operator’s “ambition” that the terminal would play a part in the opening of the Games.

It did seem incredibly optimistic that they would be able to demolish the current warren of buildings, and build and entire new terminal in only 4 years, all whilst the airport remains running at practically full capacity.

Was silly to even think it would be done by 2012

^ Not necessarily. Heathrow Terminal 5 will relieve much of the strain on the older terminals. BA will move its entire Heathrow operation to HT5 so there will be plenty of room for the other airlines and spare capacity to absorb the inevitable disruption caused by the new building works. Note that HT5 involved a massive de-contamination operation on a former sewage works and also the construction of new Underground stations - neither of which will be necessary for Heathrow East. The actual terminal construction at HT5 has only taken about 3-4 years.

I think it's a shame if the reports are true but then Heathrow will already be a much better airport by 2012. HT5 will be fully completed and opened (including both satellites), Heathrow Terminal 3 has already been partly refurbished by Foster & Partners (and is looking much nicer for it) and a further £1bn will be spent to improve it further. Terminal 4 will also be refurbished to allow in much more natural light and improve crowd flow. Terminal 2 will have been destroyed by 2012 (even if Heathrow East is not yet complete) so that will only leave Terminal 1 in an unimproved state by the Olympics. Now I'd be as disappointed as anyone if the reported delay is real, but I nonethless think some forumers attach far too much importance to the Olympics. It's only two weeks of sport for chrissakes!!

It's only two weeks of sport for chrissakes!!

It is much, much more than that and you know it.

^ For some countries, yes, it does seem to be more than that. Tokyo 1964, Seoul 1988, and now Beijing 2008 symbolised the arrival of Japan, Korea, and China onto the world stage. But for us it's just a big sporting event. I'm pleased that I will see a London Olympics at least once in my lifetime and I was delighted with the triumph over Chirac/Paris and to a lesser extent New York. It may also speed up some improvements to our transport network. However I still think it's a huge waste of money, and aside from the opening and closing ceremonies, and the 100m sprint final, I doubt I'll watch much of it. The World Cup is much better value for money.

I always said it won't be ready for 2012.

Heathrow East already more than six months late
11 February, 2008
By Dan Stewart
Reports claim £1.5bn airport terminal will not be ready for 2012 Games

BAA’s new terminal at Heathrow is already between six and fifteen months behind schedule, it has emerged.





Media reports at the weekend claimed that Heathrow East, which was intended to be the airport’s "Olympic terminal", will not be ready in time for the 2012 Games.
The £1.5bn terminal has been designed by Foster + Partners and will be built by Laing O’Rourke and BAA owner Ferrovial.

A source told one newspaper: “They have underestimated the extent of the work that is involved.”

BAA would not say whether or not Heathrow East would be completed on time, but a spokesperson said it was the operator’s “ambition” that the terminal would play a part in the opening of the Games.

It is bad that the new Heathrow East terminal will not be ready for the 2012 Summer Olympics.

And one other thing that is on my mind: If an airport designed to havdle 90,000,000 passengers a year has only two runways, then those runways would be congested.

And one other thing that is on my mind: If an airport designed to havdle 90,000,000 passengers a year has only two runways, then those runways would be congested.

You only just realised that :|

does it really take 4 years to build this though? I know its a tricky site but if they really wanted to get this built they will. What's the delay?

It could be built quicker but would that make financial sense?
The contractor would have to throw more man power equiptment etc at it before the Olympics when there would be extra capacity at Heathrow anyway because of terminal 5.
I doubt the airport owners would consider this a worth while investment just so that some VIPs don't hav eto look at cranes in the distance when they arrive.

Sorry about this folks but im just curious... iv known about heathrow east for a while now but Iv only just caught up on the news of this last article...

I can understand its behind schedule but when is this expected on site. Has there even been a date?

Re-routing of services gantry will be complete in 12 months, and demolition of T1 and T2 to start by end of this year.

It did seem incredibly optimistic that they would be able to demolish the current warren of buildings, and build and entire new terminal in only 4 years, all whilst the airport remains running at practically full capacity.

Was silly to even think it would be done by 2012


Absolutely.

Traffic/parking management and re-routing the road network to accomodate half-a-decade's worth of non-stop deconstruction and reconstruction will be a nightmare in itself, notwithstanding the construction work itself, which will take place within the airport's core, which will still be operational. The logistics need to be carefully planned and 4 to 5 years is indeed an impressive timescale, if it can be met. I'm betting on a late-2013 completion date, no sooner, but that'd still be pretty good-going, considering the obstacles and challenges facing this project.

Foster's design looks great (internally at least), and is leagues better than the functionalist human cattle-shed that is Terminal 5, but at least it was built to budget and on time, which is something.

^ I think T5 is architecturally superior to Heathrow East. Foster's design looks as if it's trying too hard and lacks HT5's vast arched roof and sense of scale (vaguely recalling the great Victorian railway statons) and also the massive windows giving views over the apron.

Definitely. The ceilings look pretty low and there's no real evidence of natural light with Heathrow East. At airports, people want function above anything else - they want the environment to be comfortable and easy to get around. From the renders released so far, this is probably Foster's worst airport design.

Heathrow East looks quite good on paper but I think it should have more space between floor and ceiling.

Foster is still the dogs bollocks of architectural design though!

Definitely. The ceilings look pretty low and there's no real evidence of natural light with Heathrow East. At airports, people want function above anything else - they want the environment to be comfortable and easy to get around. From the renders released so far, this is probably Foster's worst airport design.Actually I think there are clear glass openings in the roof. They are the blue parts of the ceiling here:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/HeathrowEast1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/HeathrowEast2.jpg

Okay, that's true but I think the shadowy effect it achieves will be messy, don't you?

That is an awful render, really cant believe Fosters & Partners willingly released that...

Yes I think it's a mess. I like the "trees" but the canopy is less successful. Hopefully we'll get better quality images as the project progresses.

Is there any chance they'll raise the ceiling height a little?? or is that the final design - with it being such a massive expanse, and such a low roof, it will have an awfully claustrophobic feel to it (especially once it fills with crowds of people).

That is an awful render, really cant believe Fosters & Partners willingly released that...

I have to agree, this is more like a concept visual at the very early stages of design. A little more openeness from BAA would be good, their websites are notoriously lacking in visual information, it always seems to have more emphasis on how fantastic they think they are.

any one seen these renders from Building.co.uk

http://www.building.co.uk/Pictures/web/d/b/a/HEATHROW_EAST_ARRIVALS_CONC.jpg

http://www.building.co.uk/Pictures/web/r/c/a/Heathrow_East_lead.jpg

would be nice if some final renders where released... its passed planning so plans should be available from the local council surely?

Looks alright in those renders - the roof height looks a little more loftier.

looks great in that new render, the columns look less like prehistoric dinosaur bones now.

I like it but with my practical head on Im thinking it will be baking hot in the summer.

It looks a bit like the Tardis, maybe that was the inspiration.

Air conditioning?

Air conditioning?

Obviously but it looks like a big open space. Im just saying I wouldn't want to be working on a check-in desk directly opposite a massive plate-glass window in the middle of summer. Although to be honest I don't think Stansted has many problems with heat.

Glass technology is pretty impressive nowadays in dealing with solar glare and gain. There are all sorts of Low Emissivity, Reflective and Etched glazing that can be used (not that this should encourage architects/developers not to think sustainably in their use and orientation of glazing), indeed look at the British Museum and you'll see Foster & partners used of specially specified glazing that causes no glare and reduced solar gain (and also the freaky disappearance of birds in the sky).

uh? Whats that about birds?

i would guess that they will have panels of glass that open to allow for ventilation and cycling of air though the building.

Although by the looks of the renders (although v early conceptual ones) it appears to have triangles of glass and another material ETFE may be utilized?

(have a look at the Pilkington glass website - lots of new products like self cleaning glass and cooling glass)

just thought i would let you know...
Channel 5 tonight - 8pm - Program on construction of heathrow - featuring T5 and future

uh? Whats that about birds?


well due to the way the glass is etched/coloured (or whatever miraculous process they use) to modulate light into the space it causes the light to be distorted as it enters the space, hence the sky you see as you look up isnt the real image and small items, for instance birds, tend to blur or simply dissappear. Next time you go to BM notice how you never really see any birds fly over when the forecourt is often buzzing with them.

Glass technology is pretty impressive nowadays in dealing with solar glare and gain. There are all sorts of Low Emissivity, Reflective and Etched glazing that can be used (not that this should encourage architects/developers not to think sustainably in their use and orientation of glazing), indeed look at the British Museum and you'll see Foster & partners used of specially specified glazing that causes no glare and reduced solar gain (and also the freaky disappearance of birds in the sky).

Solar gains and glare in the visible spectrum can be reduced quite a bit, but even with low-E coatings the IR transmission is really high. Required cooling loads go through the roof (excuse the pun) in glass buildings. So while it's fashionable, that's why you'll see sensible engineers/architects add on external louvers to their building to limit solar insolation in the first place. Etched panes only make it worse because of diffracted light.

When I say there are too many glass buildings going up in London, it's not just because of aesthetics... it's also because it's not sustainable.

was in terminal 1 today - noticed some renders for Terminal 4 on construction boards
does anyone have these? it looks unrecognisable as terminal 4

does anyone know who is doing the ever so secret redevelopment of terminal 4? Baa as per usual have absolutely no information on their website.. or images.

Solar gains and glare in the visible spectrum can be reduced quite a bit, but even with low-E coatings the IR transmission is really high. Required cooling loads go through the roof (excuse the pun) in glass buildings. So while it's fashionable, that's why you'll see sensible engineers/architects add on external louvers to their building to limit solar insolation in the first place. Etched panes only make it worse because of diffracted light.

When I say there are too many glass buildings going up in London, it's not just because of aesthetics... it's also because it's not sustainable.

but that is just because of solar gain surely? In that case you design your building around natural air flow rather than relying on mecahnical air con. Full glazing is incredibly important in buildings from a lighting and human health point of view.

^^ Natural ventilation doesn't work for every site, nor does it work in every type of building. For example, you wouldn't want to open the windows if you were in an office block on a busy traffic-congested site like Tottenham Court Road would you? Noise and pollution are just the main issues. But also London and the UK in general has a high diurnal humidity variation meaning that perception of coolth or warmth are exaggerated beyond whatever the external temperature actually is. But anyway, there are other strategies to efficiently condition your building. Thing is, these strategies have to work in tandem with how the building is designed. Limiting solar insolation in the first place, for example.

Also, glass isn't great not only because of solar gain. It lacks the density and specific heat capacity of concrete/aircrete meaning that it doesnt retain heat and coolth. This is important if you wish to passively condition your building as far as possible. Because of global warming, we'll be moving to a cooling-dominated climate. Then, concrete will be in massive demand. Think about hot countries like Morocco, Syria, Tunisia - for thousands of years they've made their buildings out of stone precisely for its thermal properties in retaining coolth.

That's not to say glass shouldn't be used at all; it has it's place - after all, people do need a certain amount of natural light etc. But I disapprove of wholly-glazed buildings.

ok so tall slender fully glazed buildings look better and can incorporate non-mechanical heat exchange systems with more people benefitting from natural light... so yet another argument against large sprawling low-rise offices?

Let's ignore the debate between mechanical/natural/mixed-mode ventilation systems - you've got to take into account lots of different variables more than just the amount of air required to dispel heat gains. For example, look at today's banner. That's the Kandalama Hotel by Geoffrey Bawa. Beautiful naturally ventilated building, but when you stay there you'll see the effect that the high humidity of the tropical Sri Lankan climate has on stuff like paintwork, dampness in bathrooms etc. So while it's cool, it's not necessarily comfortable.

As for facades... yeah - I've always been against the deep-plan low-rise glass boxes going up in the City. There's no aesthetic or environmental benefit to having Plantation Place and 11-19 Monument fully glazed. Similar argument for what seems to be the design for Terminal East.

If we consider tall buildings like LBT or the Pinnacle, then I think any sustainability concerns are worth the huge aesthetic and cultural benefit that these towers will have on the tapestry of the London skyline.

Just curious any news on how this development is going?

On this development, I don't think any actually construction work has started yet cos they're still shifting the airlines around with the opening of T5.

Until they get everyone out of T1+2 they can't do anything.

In related Heathrow news as well, today was the start of the Farnborough Airshow and the Industry Minister guy has strongly hinted there that they'll give the go-ahead for runway 3. Basically, he apparently said something like 'We need to balance industry with the environment and can't be held up by the Green Lobby and Heathrow is very important to the British economy'.

^^PA copy:

MINISTER HINTS AT GO-AHEAD FOR THIRD HEATHROW RUNWAY
Published 14 Jul 2008 - 11:00
By Peter Woodman, PA Air Correspondent

A minister gave a strong indication today that the Government will give the go-ahead for controversial plans to expand the UK's biggest airport.

The Government is due to make a decision on development of Heathrow Airport, including a new, third, runway by the end of the year.

Today, Business Secretary John Hutton said the Government would "take the difficult decisions on airport expansion" and would make flying greener rather than restricting people's opportunities to fly altogether.

Environment groups have been strong in their opposition to expansion at Heathrow in west London, particularly as homes would be lost if development goes ahead.

Mr Hutton, speaking at the opening of the Farnborough Air Show today, added: "British businesses, and ultimately the British people, would not forgive us if we shirked our responsibility to do what's right because we wanted an easy ride from green lobby groups."

He added: "Achieving a sustainable balance between economic, social and environmental concerns is essential to the continued success of every business, in this new century.

"Because we understand the importance of air travel to the British economy, my pledge to you (the aviation industry) is that we will continue to show leadership and commitment in advancing the sustainable aviation agenda.

"We will help make flying greener rather than restricting people's opportunities to fly altogether.

"So we will take the difficult decisions on airport expansion to ensure the UK has the transport infrastructure to continue to attract business from across the globe."

Mr Hutton added: "The aerospace industry must remain central to the British economy - and to our future as a hi-tech manufacturing nation."

He said the level of progress represented by the world's largest passenger plane - the Airbus A380 superjumbo, whose wings are made in the UK - and the prosperity and jobs it created across the UK, "brings home to me why it is so critical that Britain remains a cutting-edge manufacturing nation in the decades ahead".

Mr Hutton continued: "Ensuring air travel continues to flourish sustainably into the future will mean tackling a new environmental and economic challenge arguably as great as learning to fly for the first time.

"Much progress has already been made with the improved environmental performance of the A380. It helps ensure this revolutionary plane will use 20% less fuel and flies quieter, cheaper and more efficiently.

"Achieving a sustainable balance between economic, social and environmental concerns is essential to the continued success of every business in this new century."

After officially opening the show, Mr Hutton said: "We have got to rise to the challenge of expanding aviation in a sustainable way.

"What we can't do is rewind back to a time when people did not travel. I think we can secure the long-term future for aviation and also go green at the same time.

"What we can't do is pander to pressure groups and go back to a time when only rich people travelled."

Mr Hutton said: "We need a third runway at Heathrow. We are quite clear about that. The challenge is to do all this in a sustainable way. The aviation industry is hugely important to the UK economy and despite the economic difficulties, there are reasons to be optimistic.

"Travelling by air is part of our whole way of life. Tearing that up would be a huge mistake."

I hope they do approve it. I think the enviromentalist argument is valid but they never take into consideration that we live in market economy and seem to have no real understanding of competition either.

Competition? I presume you're not talking about within the UK? There is hardly much competition with BAA owning the 3 busiest airports, plus a few others. This is recognised by the government and I don't see how expanding Heathrow without forcing BAA to sell other airports would actually improve competition.

I hope they do approve it. I think the enviromentalist argument is valid but they never take into consideration that we live in market economy and seem to have no real understanding of competition either.

There won't be any competition full stop if we continue to pollute the planet.

I think the environmentalist groups have a valid point but not when it's against a failing economy and compitition against other countries.

I also feel that Heathrow East's Ceilings are too low and looks as if it surrounds you like a web...but thats only my opinion:)

Stephen

The environmental argument is valid to a point : London competitiveness. I would rather see people in employment than tree and wildlife preserved.

Let's face it, british politicians are not capable of phasing out Heathrow for a new massive hub in the thames estuary or elsewhere (the optimal alternative IMO).

So now, stop messing around and build it!

Looking at the renders, I really like it. Really nice design. You can kinda see the evolution in the design from Stormin' Norman using triangles: Stanstead > HK Aiport + British Museum > Heathrow East

Spot on Manuel :cheers:

^^PA copy:

MINISTER HINTS AT GO-AHEAD FOR THIRD HEATHROW RUNWAY
Published 14 Jul 2008 - 11:00
By Peter Woodman, PA Air Correspondent

A minister gave a strong indication today that the Government will give the go-ahead for controversial plans to expand the UK's biggest airport.

The Government is due to make a decision on development of Heathrow Airport, including a new, third, runway by the end of the year.

Today, Business Secretary John Hutton said the Government would "take the difficult decisions on airport expansion" and would make flying greener rather than restricting people's opportunities to fly altogether.

Environment groups have been strong in their opposition to expansion at Heathrow in west London, particularly as homes would be lost if development goes ahead.

Mr Hutton, speaking at the opening of the Farnborough Air Show today, added: "British businesses, and ultimately the British people, would not forgive us if we shirked our responsibility to do what's right because we wanted an easy ride from green lobby groups."

He added: "Achieving a sustainable balance between economic, social and environmental concerns is essential to the continued success of every business, in this new century.

"Because we understand the importance of air travel to the British economy, my pledge to you (the aviation industry) is that we will continue to show leadership and commitment in advancing the sustainable aviation agenda.

"We will help make flying greener rather than restricting people's opportunities to fly altogether.

"So we will take the difficult decisions on airport expansion to ensure the UK has the transport infrastructure to continue to attract business from across the globe."

Mr Hutton added: "The aerospace industry must remain central to the British economy - and to our future as a hi-tech manufacturing nation."

He said the level of progress represented by the world's largest passenger plane - the Airbus A380 superjumbo, whose wings are made in the UK - and the prosperity and jobs it created across the UK, "brings home to me why it is so critical that Britain remains a cutting-edge manufacturing nation in the decades ahead".

Mr Hutton continued: "Ensuring air travel continues to flourish sustainably into the future will mean tackling a new environmental and economic challenge arguably as great as learning to fly for the first time.

"Much progress has already been made with the improved environmental performance of the A380. It helps ensure this revolutionary plane will use 20% less fuel and flies quieter, cheaper and more efficiently.

"Achieving a sustainable balance between economic, social and environmental concerns is essential to the continued success of every business in this new century."

After officially opening the show, Mr Hutton said: "We have got to rise to the challenge of expanding aviation in a sustainable way.

"What we can't do is rewind back to a time when people did not travel. I think we can secure the long-term future for aviation and also go green at the same time.

"What we can't do is pander to pressure groups and go back to a time when only rich people travelled."

Mr Hutton said: "We need a third runway at Heathrow. We are quite clear about that. The challenge is to do all this in a sustainable way. The aviation industry is hugely important to the UK economy and despite the economic difficulties, there are reasons to be optimistic.

"Travelling by air is part of our whole way of life. Tearing that up would be a huge mistake."YIPPEEEE!!! :D

so what's happened to heathrow east? is anything actually happening??

so what's happened to heathrow east? is anything actually happening??

In reply to the last time you asked that 2 weeks ago I said this, which I think is still valid

"On this development, I don't think any actual construction work has started yet cos they're still shifting the airlines around with the opening of T5.

Until they get everyone out of T1+2 they can't do anything."

sorry!!!!!!!

come on, 2 weeks is an aeon in British construction ;)

ok so here's a question when is the shifting of airlines going to be complete? This year? next year?

There are some hoardings up in the centre of the airport with Heathrow East on them. I would Imagine the 1st major job to do after the airlines have all moved is to alter the road layout to enable the defunct roads to be used within the construction site as I am sure the new building won't be following the footprints of the old ones.

So will the delayed full opening of T5 have impacted on the timetable for Heathrow East?

just found some pics of terminal 3, looks far better than before but not sure what the interior's like now. Also there is a thread on the aiports international forum that should be here because its talking about developments at heathrow for 2012.

http://i33.tinypic.com/1b2th.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/2ihw9rn.jpg
http://i33.tinypic.com/xmpxme.jpg
http://i38.tinypic.com/35bbifa.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/27ysdx1.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/dzf72h.jpg

Yeah, the entrance to Terminal 3 looks rather classy. A friend of mine (with no interest in how places look, generally) even commented on it as we went by on the Bus back to the car park.

It will be great when heathrow east is finally built, heathrow won't be that embarrassing person at the party any more! Took long enough BAA!

I had the misfortue of going though Terminal 1 a few weeks ago. I could not belive what a shitty state the building was in. It really is an embarrisment.

Whist waiting for our out sized luggae to apear, I found a bag that had a 2001 date on the lable. 7 years lying around in the baggage hall!

Terminals 1 and 2 are bad, yes, but Terminal 5 and Terminal 3 are quite good now. Terminal 4, well it isn't bad, but it isn't great either. Once Heathrow East is built it'll be a lot better. I think we'll see Terminal 4 go through the same renovation as Terminal 3.

Though I think that if they're going to call Heathrow East, Heathrow East, then they ought to rename the terminals.

Heathrow North (Terminal for the new runway, Terminal 6)
Heathrow Central (Terminal 3)
Heathrow East
Heathrow South (Terminal 4)
Heathrow West (Terminal 5)

It'd make comprehension of the terminal layout easier for people who've never been to Heathrow.

Apparently terminal 4 is being refurbished soon, but I have no idea what its going to look like, there's no information about it. Yes heathrow at the moment is a mess. Its organised chaos, but I ' hope' this will change with the construction of heathrow east. Lets hope Terminal 6 if it's ever built will push the boundaries for airport design.

This article from the bbc, I think breaking up the monopoly is probably the right way to go, hopefully it will pull gatwick out of its appauling state at the moment.


BAA expects forced airport sales

Heathrow airport is one of the busiest in the world
The chairman of the UK's largest airports operator, BAA, has said he expects the Competition Commission to order the break up of the company.

Sir Nigel Rudd told the BBC's Robert Peston he believed such a decision would not lead to effective competition against BAA's prime airport Heathrow.

Our correspondent said it was likely to mean BAA being forced to sell key airports in England and Scotland.

BAA has come under fire for poor service and excessive airline charges.

The firm owns Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Southampton and Aberdeen airports.

With a near monopoly on airports in the South East of England and in Scotland, there have been concerns that BAA - which is saddled with debt from its purchase by Spanish property group Ferrovial in 2006 - can only focus on one development project at a time, causing capacity problems.




Robert Peston's blog

This prompted an inquiry by the Competition Commission, which is expected to announce its provisional findings next week.

Airport sale

Speculation is mounting that the regulator will conclude that BAA's ownership of seven UK airports is not in the public interest.

"[From] all the things that I'm hearing, it looks like they will announce that," conceded Sir Nigel.

This could force BAA to sell either or both London's Gatwick and Stansted airports and also Edinburgh or Glasgow airport.

But Sir Nigel said that the break-up of BAA would not be a "disaster".

He said that BAA's owners have already had "huge expressions of interest" from potential buyers of Gatwick and Stansted, though neither are currently for sale.

And he is confident that the downturn in the airline industry due to rocketing fuel costs and tightening household budgets, has not depressed in a serious way what Ferrovial and its partners would receive from a sale.

FROM THE TODAY PROGRAMME


More from Today programme

Yet even though the Heathrow proprietors could cope with the disposal of these airports, the BAA chairman disputes the claims that a sale would increase competition between the airports due to Heathrow's prime location.

Sir Nigel said: "Heathrow does not compete with Gatwick and does not compete with Stansted or Luton or Manchester.

"It competes with Charles de Gaulle [in Paris], Dubai now and [Amsterdam's] Schiphol, because these are big international hub airports so the ownership of the airports has nothing to do with competition."

In fact, he says fulfilling the requirements set out in the government's 2003 aviation White Paper will make it more difficult if the airports were under different ownership.

Sir Nigel also spoke in the interview of his views on the Conservative Party having expressed reservations about the need for a third runway at Heathrow.

He said he believed once elected to office, David Cameron would see the desirability of expanding the airport.

But Theresa Villiers, who speaks on transport for the party, told BBC Radio Four's Today programme the economic and environmental case for a third runway had yet to be proved.

"There's no serious research on the value of transfer passengers. Neither the government nor the studies on this have looked at the cost of the increase in pollution in the area around Heathrow," she said.

She added that the government had not costed the carbon impact of international inbound flights.

Ms Villiers said one of the alternatives the Tories were looking at was high-speed rail.

The full interview with Sir Nigel Rudd will be broadcast on Saturday, 16 August, and on Sunday, 17 August, at 2230 BST in Leading Questions on the BBC News Channel.

Good, I hope Manchester Airport buy Gatwick.

Well whoever buys it should really have alot of money to invest.

I find it criminal the way BAA have fobbed us off for years saying they have invested billions into airports and all we have is Terminal 5! We have shocking airports in this country , they are more like naff shopping malls than celebrating the thrill of travel through efficient and celebratory buildings.

I arrived through terminal 3 the other day and was thoroughly impressed. Interior and exterior are both very nice.

I'm a bit concerned by the glass roof of Heathrow East. I'm sure it'll look lovely once it's built, but the inevitable gradual build up of muck and bird poo combined with a typical London grey sky means it probably won't look quite as nice in the years following.

Well if they actually cleaned it, it might be quiet good. One question, why is it that all public transport buildings with glass roofs never get cleaned and just left to accumilate crap? do they not care?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7571613.stm

BAA may have to sell three of its seven UK airports because of concerns about its market dominance, the Competition Commission has said.

The watchdog is recommending that the airport operator should have to sell two of its three airports in the South East - Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted.

It also believes BAA should not be allowed to continue to own airports in both Glasgow and Edinburgh.

BAA said it had "no intention" of selling Heathrow, its largest airport.

It described the regulator's verdict as "flawed" and said the forced sale of leading airports would be "counter-productive".

The final decision on the company's future will be taken next April.

I think it's a good decision. It will clear Ferrovial's backlog of debt and introduce competition for fees, service standards, and expansion.

It means they can focus fully on Heathrow.

I think it's a good decision. It will clear Ferrovial's backlog of debt and introduce competition for fees, service standards, and expansion.

According to this they will take a £1bn hit.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article4576582.ece

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2662635/Heathrows-new-terminal-will-not-be-ready-for-2012-Olympics.html


From the telegraph, I cannot believe the incompetence of BAA, the sooner they are sorted out, split up and sold off the better. They have fucked up again saying only
'part of Terminal East ready in 2012' what the shopping areas??? Bastards.
Britain really needs to get a grip with airport design and planning, we are at the mercy at the moment of a bunch of idiots, who's only concern is to build shopping malls with an airport attached.

Well, to be honest i've always thought it would was a mean feat for anyone to attempt to demolish a number of terminals and outbuildings and construct an entirely new terminal * - all whilst the busiest international airport in the world remains fully operational, in such a short time frame....it seems impossible, especially as there seems to be very little work under way (considering work on the Olympics site is racing ahead)

Annoyingly, whether Heathrow a building site or its left as it is, it will be an embarrassment come 2012. :(

*Edit - then to ensure it is tested, and all the bugs are ironed out (ensuring the fiasco we saw at T5 is avoided)

They can do it in China, all be it with thousands of low paid workers, but if there is a will there must be a way and building the terminal should not be left to a bunch of Baffoon's at BAA but the Government or even part of the Olympic delivery team. It's essential for the games to run smoothly but having only a small part finished is not good enough, again we will be shamed for failing.

Are you seriously implying that the Government are lesser buffoons than the buffoons at BAA?

They're all in the same boat, to me.

If i hear anyone say "they can do it in China" again i will scream :gaah:

ok sorry I won't say it again, I'm just frustrated by the UK's failure in tackling projects such as this and on time..we have 4 years, you would of thought in that time it could be done?

erm.... we are a democracy and we actually care about workers dying on our construction sites.

We have a planning process which is far more democratic than any other country in the world, so planning takes a while. We aren't like China where we just issue a notice of eviction and the police turn up the following day to boot people out, we are far more civilised.

We also are far safer when it comes to working practices than China. The number of people who died whilst constructing all the facilities for the Olympics is far higher than those of Heathrow Terminal 5....

Yes we do have a planning process that is democratic and fair, but this already has planning? So we are over that hurdle already. Back to the building. We are at the mercy of BAA who spout alot of crap about how great they are and building us fantastic airports but what have we got? terminal 5. thats it. We have the olympics coming up and again they are failing to deliver an airport in 4 whole years? It isn't good enough no matter how good our building standards are to china, this terminal should be finished and by 2012.

I dont necessarily think that monopolies cannot work (if well regulated) but in the case BAA I say bring it on. They have had plenty of time to get their act right - and its obvious to a blind man that they got it wrong.

I think the blind man would of tripped over the crappy carpet or scuffed his head on the low ceilings.
Just one example is your arrival to the uk at heathrow. You get off the plane at one of the gates and have to guide yourself through an absolute maze of corridors and passageways, then finally after at least 10 mins or more of walking you arrive at passport control where you are taken into a large hall with fowl decor and plastic flowers that have not been cleaned for at least 10 years ,its not been refurbished it looks for 20 years. Welcome to the uk.

you are taken into a large hall with fowl decor

What, like this?

http://www.northstar-website-design.com/downloads/wallpapers/ducks-1024.jpg

ha ha actually that would look better than it is now.

Ah I get it now!

It is shameful - terminals 1 and 2 are the worst at least.

I think it's somewhat embarrassing - take terminal 3 where the majority of long haul people come in (except BA), lots of Asians and Yanks on their home airlines (including business people and first time investors/visitors). Virgin must hate it too, hardly consistent with the brand! The passport area is rancid, the walking ridiculous and the ceiling is far too low.

Even the passport hall at Newark airport is cavernous and impressive, even though they only usually have one rude bastard working.

Little off-topic but I just heard that the Transport Minister has backed the plans for expansion at Stansted.

Anyone know what's happening here? I can't find much on BAA's website as usual.

I wonder if the old Terminal 2 had closed and demolition started after that. I haven't been to Heathrow in recent months.

finally found an image of what T4 should look like from the outside when completed...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/livepine/1969367941/

The full design statement for heathrow east is now on the lb of hillingdon website:

http://w09.hillingdon.gov.uk/images/dv_pl_files/62360_APP_2008_3080/Design%20Report%20v3%20Sept%2008.pdf

Includes a load of interior/exterior images, plans etc...

finally found an image of what T4 should look like from the outside when completed...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/livepine/1969367941/

Thank you very much. It's hard to believe the near-total lack of any info/pics on this (presumably very large) project :ohno:

The full design statement for heathrow east is now on the lb of hillingdon website:

http://w09.hillingdon.gov.uk/images/dv_pl_files/62360_APP_2008_3080/Design%20Report%20v3%20Sept%2008.pdf

Includes a load of interior/exterior images, plans etc...Thanks for that. The new design looks much better.

looks good - but cant say its having the same wow factor as terminal 5 did on me?

maybe im going off foster?!

I think Fosters have done a good job to make it look like half decent judging by the constraints being put on them by BAA, if kept on schedule this project will cost in time and money a fraction of that of HT5 (much to everyone's relief).

From this
http://www.heathrowairport.com/assets/B2CPortal/Static%20Files/AerialShotHET_wide.jpg
http://www.building.co.uk/Pictures/web/d/b/a/HEATHROW_EAST_ARRIVALS_CONC.jpg
http://www.building.co.uk/Pictures/web/r/c/a/Heathrow_East_lead.jpg

to this

http://i39.tinypic.com/xd83gj.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/30394s1.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/1zv4ah4.jpg

Slight bit of value engineering for the cash strapped owners of BAA me thinks.

Yes, it's no Madrid Barajas - but it's clean, bright and modern.

To be fair the first looked a bit like a bigger version of Westfield from inside. The second isn't much better, though. Would it not be too much to ask for a hint of wood, or colour, at least?

I think Fosters have done a good job to make it look like half decent judging by the constraints being put on them by BAA, if kept on schedule this project will cost in time and money a fraction of that of HT5 (much to everyone's relief).HT5 was delivered on time and to budget.

From this
http://www.heathrowairport.com/assets/B2CPortal/Static%20Files/AerialShotHET_wide.jpg
http://www.building.co.uk/Pictures/web/d/b/a/HEATHROW_EAST_ARRIVALS_CONC.jpg
http://www.building.co.uk/Pictures/web/r/c/a/Heathrow_East_lead.jpg

to this

http://i39.tinypic.com/xd83gj.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/30394s1.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/1zv4ah4.jpg

Slight bit of value engineering for the cash strapped owners of BAA me thinks.I think the new design is far better. The old design was a mess.

HT5 was delivered on time and to budget.

Yes but when the timescale is longer than that of a generation (Rogers was appointed virtually before i was born!), and the cost spiralled the equivalent of over 5 times that of Terminal 4, Madrid Barajas one begins to realise that HT5 seen as a whole can be much improved upon!

^ The delay in awarding consent was caused by planning regulations that have now been changed completely (PIs are time-limited now). T5's cost didn't "spiral". T5 was delivered to budget. T5 cost five times more than T4 because it's about five times bigger than T4. Barajas may have been built cheaper (though it was hardly a snip!) because construction costs/labour etc in Spain are generally cheaper and because there was a lot more land available (no need to demolish a sewage works or build between two operating runways as at T5).

I went through T1 today, regretfully the old Queens building et all was still very much alive, however I did notice a huge steel structure being constructed out on the apron with 2 or 3 cranes. Is this the beginning of Heathrow East? I very much doubt they'd be building another pier.

Oh, the gov are tipped to give runway 3 the go ahead next week aswell :)

will heathrow east be expanded to rplace the building to the north once its complete and carriers have (i assume) moved over from that building? The design looks like its for half a building. And also, will there be a second midfield pier at any point?

Does anyone now what the timeline for construction is on Heathrow East now? ready for the Olympics?

Just registered with this site so hope this works!! I work at Heathrow so can tell you that T2 demolition has been pushed back to the end of this year, it will no longer take place in April as planned. Queens has already seen most people working there moved out, I think only BMI are still there. This means demolition will start at the earliest in the summer.

Regarding the construction at the end of the piers of T1 this is the start of the new satalite stand for Heathrow East, and its going up fast and looking alot better than the rest of the buildings that end of the airport. There is no chance of Heathrow East being ready for the Olympics, earliset dates are for 2013 but more likely to be 2014.

Hope that has answered some peoples questions.

^ Very interesting, welcome - always good to read insiders posts :)

I expected as much that it wouldn't be ready by the Olympics, it seemed like a totally unrealistic timeframe. It's a great shame though, one other thing for the press to moan about in the run up to the games.

Just registered with this site so hope this works!! I work at Heathrow so can tell you that T2 demolition has been pushed back to the end of this year, it will no longer take place in April as planned. Queens has already seen most people working there moved out, I think only BMI are still there. This means demolition will start at the earliest in the summer.

Regarding the construction at the end of the piers of T1 this is the start of the new satalite stand for Heathrow East, and its going up fast and looking alot better than the rest of the buildings that end of the airport. There is no chance of Heathrow East being ready for the Olympics, earliset dates are for 2013 but more likely to be 2014.

Hope that has answered some peoples questions.


Thank you very much for the info :)

I was intrigued to know what they were building at the end of T1.

Just registered with this site so hope this works!! I work at Heathrow so can tell you that T2 demolition has been pushed back to the end of this year, it will no longer take place in April as planned. Queens has already seen most people working there moved out, I think only BMI are still there. This means demolition will start at the earliest in the summer.

Regarding the construction at the end of the piers of T1 this is the start of the new satalite stand for Heathrow East, and its going up fast and looking alot better than the rest of the buildings that end of the airport. There is no chance of Heathrow East being ready for the Olympics, earliset dates are for 2013 but more likely to be 2014.

Hope that has answered some peoples questions.



Thanks for the info. I am very disappointed though that the building is not ready for the Olympics, do you know why there has been such a delay?

I suppose one consolation is that it will be ready in 2013-2014.
In regard to terminal 4 are there any images of how it will look after it's refurbishment?

The official BAA line for the delay of Heathrow East is because of the chaos when opening T5, which has had a knock on effect in moving airlines out of T1 and T2. Many British Airways flights are stil using T1 though they should be moving to T3 by the summer. The new satalite pier will be open in time for the Olympics though.

I have no idea where you can find images of the refurbished T4, i've tried looking myself and can't find any. I do know they have completed the re-building of the ramps to cater for the A380, meaning some gates now have three ramps leading to the aircraft. Overall it should all be finished by the end of the year. Out of interest it only takes 2 hours to turn the A380 round, which I thought was pretty impressive considering its size!!

Thanks for the info. It's a pity BAA are so secretive about their developments.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/HeathrowEast1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/HeathrowEast2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/HeathrowEast3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/HeathrowEast4.jpg

Looks like T5/Westfield again - but obviously a massive improvement.

We should probably get used to new terminals being generic glassy sheds, shopping malls with a couple of planes out the back.

The earlier renders looked much more promising, have they scaled back the roof?

Money. Lack of it. BAA aren't having the best of times atm, their owner Ferrovial bought them at an inflated price and are probably regretting it and the competition people are all over them regarding sale of Gatwick and other airports - and the Gatwick sale isn't going to plan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/4682194/BAA-owner-Ferrovial-faces-call-to-sell-more-airports.html

Looks like T5/Westfield again - but obviously a massive improvement.

We should probably get used to new terminals being generic glassy sheds, shopping malls with a couple of planes out the back.

The earlier renders looked much more promising, have they scaled back the roof?I disagree. I didn't like the original roof. It was fussy and unprincipled. The new design hasn't "scaled back" the roof. It covers the same area, and appears to stand higher over the passengers than before. I think the new design is comparable with T5, or perhaps slightly less impressive. However I like the entrance to this more than T5's, and I like the coordinating "tilt" of the roof sections. However it lacks the singular vast wave and the metal "trees" that hold T5's floors separate from the outer skin of the building. It is indeed "generic" contemporary modernism, but of high quality nonetheless. One can criticise architects like Mies for pumping out generic tinted glass boxes, but I for one absolutely love his buildings. You don't need to reinvent the wheel with every building, and some designs that strive for originality are guilty of trying-too-hard. This terminal may not be a show-stopper, but it's simple, elegant, and effective.

The colonnade at the front worries me a bit. The road weaves through and one column is in the middle of the road, all be it on a traffic Island. What if a truck went into it? big mess.
But back to the design I actually think its good, but lacking a bit of originality. They have obviously been asked to create T5 again but a simplified in the typical foster way. I do like the animated glass lifts at the front of the terminal. This will definitely help the excitement of travel. Once this is built ' eventually' Heathrow will be more of a pleasure to fly through.

Some nice pictures there Langur, can always rely on you to show us the best of what Heathrow will have to offer :)

But am I the only one slightly worried by that 1st picture?

If you notice on the runway a plane has just taken off and yet there is already another plane occupying that runway about 600 metres behind it (either having just landed or taking off).

Also in the top right of the picture there appears to be another plane banking in the general direction of the plane which has just taken off.

Now I'm all for progress but must it come with this shocking lapse in safety?!

I say rebuild Heathrow AND keep planes from crashing into each other, we shouldn't have to choose.

Obviously this is a ploy to get the third runway built.

Hi,

The previous renders are planned for the Olympic Games 2012, I mean, that construction is planned to be for the Olympic?

Cheers

There is no chance of Heathrow East being ready for the Olympics, earliset dates are for 2013 but more likely to be 2014.

Hope that has answered some peoples questions.

There you go.

Some nice pictures there Langur, can always rely on you to show us the best of what Heathrow will have to offer :)

But am I the only one slightly worried by that 1st picture?

If you notice on the runway a plane has just taken off and yet there is already another plane occupying that runway about 600 metres behind it (either having just landed or taking off).

Also in the top right of the picture there appears to be another plane banking in the general direction of the plane which has just taken off.

Now I'm all for progress but must it come with this shocking lapse in safety?!

I say rebuild Heathrow AND keep planes from crashing into each other, we shouldn't have to choose.

Obviously this is a ploy to get the third runway built.

Not even mentioning the fact that they either have to taxi over the grass or backtrack down the runway to get to 27L :ohno:

:)

The renders look ok, a certain improvement to what's already there.

How pharaonic BAA is being!
Did not they think about revamping T1 and T2 by the same way the are doing with T3?

Have you seen them???

Good lord...a distribution centre. Sainsbury Northampton anyone?

A plastic tent would have been ready in time for the Olympics.

How pharaonic BAA is being! Did not they think about revamping T1 and T2 by the same way the are doing with T3?T1 and T2 are too small and inefficient. It's better to destroy them and replace them with this larger and more spacious terminal.

Good lord...a distribution centre. Sainsbury Northampton anyone?If Sainsbury's distribution centres really did have gracefully curved roofs, elegant modernist collonades, high glass walls, and vast interiors flooded with natural light, then I for one would travel to see them.

If Sainsbury's distribution centres really did have gracefully curved roofs, elegant modernist collonades, high glass walls, and vast interiors flooded with natural light, then I for one would travel to see them.

Oh please...a tent would suffice at this rate.
Modernism, collonades are too good to be used to qualify this.

^ "At this rate"? Are you questioning the time it will take to construct? I don't think it's unreasonable given that they're still building the second satellite at T5, and that they've got to build on the site of two existing terminals, and keep the whole airport functioning at full capacity at all times.

I also like the slender collonades. These appear rarely on contemporary buildings despite being very important to modernist founding fathers like Corbusier and Mies. I also admire simple, efficient, elegant, and intellectually principled architecture such as this. Too many modern buildings are gimmicky and unprincipled. They try too hard.

Have you seen them???
T1 and T2 are too small and inefficient. It's better to destroy them and replace them with this larger and more spacious terminal.
T1 and T2 main buildings have the proportion of the traffic they were supposed to receive.
If authorities were not allowing Heathrow be overloaded, revamped T1 and T2 would be quite more comfortable than now.

T1 and T2 main buildings have the proportion of the traffic they were supposed to receive.
If authorities were not allowing Heathrow be overloaded, revamped T1 and T2 would be quite more comfortable than now.

Erm, hang on. Heathrows terminals 1-3 are shite and need knocking down. What planet are you on.

^ Terminal 3 has recently been 'done-up' it looks very impressive now actually.

Night - http://www.flickr.com/photos/laurencekemball-cook/2944765247/

Day - http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3201/2473198044_cab6a37406_b.jpg

That's the entrance - which does look good but means your car/taxi is a little further to walk. Nice smoking area though.

And the Virgin check-in area is good - the rest is still shit so far. The departures lounge is scabby and the usual mall-excuse, with very little area for relaxing and a mandatory walk through duty free which is tedious. Also the Iris office is always closed, I've been past about 3 times trying to sign up!


And as for T1/2 - it's not about the congestion of people. It's about the horrible aesthetics, low ceilings and poor, outdated facilities regardless of traffic. AwysBSB - I suggest that you don't know what you're talking about.

I agree the rest of the terminal is a shoddy mess, it's not finished yet but come on how much does it really cost to do up a crappy shopping 'village' and make the check in areas look half decent.

And as for T1/2 - it's not about the congestion of people. It's about the horrible aesthetics, low ceilings and poor, outdated facilities regardless of traffic.
None of those aspects are impossible to be improved or become accepted.
What makes Heathrow`s terminals uncomfortable is their passenger traffic, which needs to be reduced and distributed to other hub airports.

Building a giant terminal in place of T1 and T2 is not the solution, as Heathrow has nowhere to build more ramps, taxiways and runways.

Sometimes it's cheaper and easier to demolish rather than completely refit - which is what they're doing with the relatively new T4 which in 5 years or so, will be the worst terminal. At least it was built with higher ceilings.

Heathrow doesn't feel busier people-wise than any other major hubs, in fact less so due to having numerous terminals. Transfer facilities do need to be improved, as do links between terminals.

T1 and T2's problems are frankly that they're shitholes, embarrassing and unsuitable for modern use - especially standing side by side with the newer ones. Much of it will be pressure from the airlines who've seen BA given a competitive advantage with T5 and who'll want an even playing field.

Rebuilding T1 and T2 partially would not be so unreasonable as executing Heathrow East project, which implies the demolition of too many functional areas.

There is some spare capacity at Heathrow at the moment for the first time in decades, with T5 open. T2 can be demolished and the airport can carry on as normal. Then the new terminal can be built in its place, and T1's passengers can shift into East when it's finished.

There is some spare capacity at Heathrow at the moment for the first time in decades, with T5 open.
If that is true, that is more one reason for not expanding Heathrow.
Heathrow cannot afford to enhance its capacity, as it is one of the airports that most gather aircrafts per sm² (it brings Kai Tak to my mind). It is even unsafe gathering so many aircrafts on the same place.

Rebuilding T1 and T2 partially would not be so unreasonable as executing Heathrow East project, which implies the demolition of too many functional areas.

Does that actually mean anything?

I think most people can accept that heathrow isnt the best location, but it is there and it is going nowhere, existing facilities need to be completely rebuilt, cos they are third world. Collecting bags in leaky sheds is not right.

What can you possibly have against this?

I really havent a clue what that guy is going on about!

I'm not even sure if he's been!

I go to terminal 1 about monce a month (bmi to GLA usually) and it's a shithole.

The fact that it's used for some quite prestigious long-haul routes/airlines, such as Air New Zealand and South African, is an embarrassment. Imagine starting a 24 hour flight there, or worse, landing from one!

T1 and T2 main buildings have the proportion of the traffic they were supposed to receive.
If authorities were not allowing Heathrow be overloaded, revamped T1 and T2 would be quite more comfortable than now.

Not quite sure where you get your information but you're way wrong. T1 and T2 handle c.32 million passangers per year, there design capacities are for roughly 23 million. So thats 9 million extra passangers going through these two terminals than there capacity allows. Even the building of Heathrow East doesn't catter for the current throughput with the design cattering for 30 million passengers, although this may not be a problem as some of the airlines will be moving to T4 which has been pretty much half empty since BA moved most of their operations out to T5.

Rebuilding T1 and T2 partially would not be so unreasonable as executing Heathrow East project, which implies the demolition of too many functional areas.

Again your knowledge of the airport is lacking. Like others have said here refitting these two terminals is a non-starter, they're so old and built like rabbit warrens it is far easier and cheaper to rebuild the whole site. T1 will still be working while the building of Heathrow East is being undertaken, the new satalite stand will be operational by the time the new terminal starts consruction so there will be no loss of stands for aircraft. T2 only has 14 stands anyway so hardly a loss in the grand scheme of things anyway.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/Heathrow/HeathrowEast1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/Heathrow/HeathrowEast2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/Heathrow/HeathrowEast3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/Heathrow/HeathrowEast4.jpg

Hmm... The roof looks a bit more interesting than T5's, IMO anyway.

I think it might have been scaled back. I also thought the roof was more interesting too.

T5 is great, functional and looks ok at ground level, but on a grander scale isn't so impressive. Not that it's essential, but certainly could have been 'sexier'. I love the lift journeys to and from public transport though, very cool.

SO any progress on the site of this one? I for one think this will be a massive improvement to the airport. I also think that this scheme is designed to be expanded north for extra capacity when needed.

http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=32&storycode=3136976&c=1

Heathrow, the airport that BAA will definitely keep, is by far the biggest recipient of its capital investment. The airport’s current development plan, which runs from 2008 to 2013, has a budget of just over £4bn. This includes the £1.5bn East Terminal phase one, which is to be built by Ferrovial and Laing O’Rourke, together with a series of smaller projects (see box, below).

This is the most important single project. A year ago, a former director of BAA, who did not want to be named, told Building that the “key indicator” in understanding how the company would operate in future would be Heathrow East, also known as Terminal 2a. Those were ominous words, because the project has fallen behind. The disastrous opening of Terminal 5 meant that plans to empty Terminal 4 had to be delayed, and that meant the demolition of that building, required before Heathrow East could be built, has been delayed for six months, from March to October this year.

Sources close to the scheme predict that the opening of the first phase of Heathrow East, originally planned as a gateway for the 2012 Olympic Games, will not be possible until the end of 2013 at the earliest.

Phil Wilbrahams, project leader for Heathrow East, cannot yet confirm an opening date for the first phase of East. He says: “We still don’t have a fixed plan. If you look back to T5, we only determined a completion date when we were six months into that programme, so we’re not ready for that yet.” The only commitment he would give was that Heathrow’s entire £4bn construction programme would be complete in 2013/14.

“Plans for a third runway and sixth terminal at Heathrow have been approved, but have attracted a level of opprobrium worse than that levelled at T5”

Wilbrahams says the two years after that will be critical to deciding how much BAA will spend on Heathrow during its five-year plan. This will, in part, depend on how much it gets from the sales of Gatwick and Stansted. But he adds that there is plenty for the construction industry to do before then. “We’ll be building Heathrow East phase two, which will increase the building to the size of T5. There is potential for a further satellite pier, or a terminal pier. There are also plans to further refurbish Terminal 3, which may include a new pier, and improve the transportation system,” he says. “And of course there is the third runway.”

Plans for a third runway and sixth terminal at Heathrow have been approved by the government, but they have already attracted a level of opprobrium worse than that levelled at T5. At the very least, they will be subject to a lengthy public inquiry, and Boris Johnson, the mayor of London has said he will fight them in court.

Wilbrahams concedes that a third runway will be unlikely to be completed during the 2013-18 period – “There is quite a process to go through before we can consider a timeframe,” he says – but adds that there will be plenty of environmental, architectural and infrastructure work to pave the way for its construction.

There have been persistent rumours of tensions between Ferrovial and Laing O’Rourke, who are building Heathrow East terminal together. The Spanish contractor, which controls 65% of the joint venture, took the designs by Foster + Partners and handed them to its own executive architect for value-engineering. Laing O’Rourke was understood to have been left out of the process.

Interesting, So terminal 5's 5c pier is much larger than originally intended if that render is anything to go by? Oh and nothings going to be ready for the olympics....what a complete balls up that is.

I think most people can accept that heathrow isnt the best location, but it is there and it is going nowhere, existing facilities need to be completely rebuilt, cos they are third world. Collecting bags in leaky sheds is not right.

What can you possibly have against this?
None of those aspects you raised I disagree.
What I disagree is the capacity increase to be provided by Heathrow East Terminal.


I go to terminal 1 about monce a month (bmi to GLA usually) and it's a shithole.

The fact that it's used for some quite prestigious long-haul routes/airlines, such as Air New Zealand and South African, is an embarrassment. Imagine starting a 24 hour flight there, or worse, landing from one!
I do not know why you treat T1 so offhandedly... T1 can be improved the same way T3 could.

T1 and T2 handle c.32 million passangers per year, there design capacities are for roughly 23 million. So thats 9 million extra passangers going through these two terminals than there capacity allows. Even the building of Heathrow East doesn't catter for the current throughput with the design cattering for 30 million passengers, although this may not be a problem as some of the airlines will be moving to T4 which has been pretty much half empty since BA moved most of their operations out to T5.
Come on, Heathrow East Terminal will not be for 30 million only!
your knowledge of the airport is lacking
Ok, thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Like others have said here refitting these two terminals is a non-starter, they're so old and built like rabbit warrens it is far easier and cheaper to rebuild the whole site.
Maybe not. T2 does really have significant drawbacks, like the low ceiling of the check-in area, but that does not mean Heathrow East is the only solution.
Maybe it is time to remove those offices from the west corner of T2 in order to move check-in area to the first floor and to an overpass can be built for the Clinton Road. That is one of the possibilities.

Heathrow East will have a design capacity of 30 million, it is not going to be a super terminal. This information can be found by following the link and watching the video,

http://www.heathrowairport.com/portal/page/Heathrow%5EGeneral%5EOur+business+and+community%5EHeathrow+transformation%5EHeathrow+East/7d5cbdb5189f1110VgnVCM10000036821c0a____/448c6a4c7f1b0010VgnVCM200000357e120a____/

AwysBSB, I cant understand why you are so dedicated in keeping T1 and T2 when BAA want to build this brand new terminal. T1 and T2 have served their day, simply referbishing them is not an option when Heathrow is stuggling to maintain its lead over Paris and Frankfurt. T2's check in has a low ceiling because that is the old car park for the terminal, moving the check in to the office block is a non-starter, where do you propose the admin of the terminal be moved to? Also the office block is due to be knocked down to make way for a new security control post 4 which has recently been given planning approval.

delores, I'm not sure if T5c is larger than originally planned but judging by its stage of construction I would say that it will be the same size as T5b.

Where have the delightful Gothic supports gone?! :(

Oakley Lad,
BAA is not disclosed enough nor loyal to surrounding communities to make we believe Heathrow East Terminal will be for only 30 million.
That narrow-minded idea of maintaining Heathrow lead over CDG or FRA just discredit even more BAA and the UK`s CAA, because no airport had to be so traffic thickened as Heathrow, no matter the size of terminals it has.
So many aircrafts in Heathrow`s ramps endangers collisions between them/other vehicles. Furthermore, Heathrow is too close to the city and already provides a quite dense air traffic over it, putting safety under threat and making the air more and more polluted.
At least symbolically, Heathrow East project should to be pushed away.

Any space under Heathrow East for an HS2 terminal?

Interesting, So terminal 5's 5c pier is much larger than originally intended if that render is anything to go by?It looks identical to me. What difference do you detect?

Oakley Lad,
BAA is not disclosed enough nor loyal to surrounding communities to make we believe Heathrow East Terminal will be for only 30 million.
That narrow-minded idea of maintaining Heathrow lead over CDG or FRA just discredit even more BAA and the UK`s CAA, because no airport had to be so traffic thickened as Heathrow, no matter the size of terminals it has.
So many aircrafts in Heathrow`s ramps endangers collisions between them/other vehicles. Furthermore, Heathrow is too close to the city and already provides a quite dense air traffic over it, putting safety under threat and making the air more and more polluted.
At least symbolically, Heathrow East project should to be pushed away.

The surrounding communities of Heathrow in general do not have a problem with the airport (ok, maybe Sipson!!), and this is largly due to the fact many people in these areas work at the airport. Also with a large immigrant communty in the area of Heathrow many will not have lived there before the airport was built so they know what to expect when they move. The areas with the problem are Richmond and Barnes where middle class people, who love to use the airport, do not wish to have their afternoon Pimms disturbed. This despite the new aircraft being notiablly quieter than the old, especially when comparing the 747 with the A380.

You are right that more than 30 million people will use Heathrow East, but what I have been saying is that its design capacity is for 30 million, but with larger aircraft using the airport the number of movements should not rise correspondingly. I also agree that the number of aircraft is thick at Heathrow but it is running at 98% capacity meaning it is possible to add a further 2% of aircraft movements using the current airfield configeration, without affecting safty. If it was considered dangerous at the moment I'm sure the UK's strict H&S laws would close the airport down! Along this line it is also why it is essential that the 3rd runway gets built to ease congestion on the airfield and reduce time aircraft spend waiting to take off and land.

You say that Heathrow is to close to the city but lets not forget it is the city that has sprawled to Heathrow. Also Amsterdams airport is just as close to the city and London City airport is bang in the middle of the city. Are you suggesting these airports close or be moved?

^^
Surrounding communities of Heathrow in general do have a problem with the airport. If they did not, there would not exist so many non-governmental organizations against Heathrow, and you would not have your 'exceptions' to mention.

If Heathrow is running regularly at almost 100%, that is a negligence which is better solved by reducing operations (maybe by limiting intercontinental flights to aircrafts bigger than A330 or reducing fees for airlines that operate A380/B-777-300), not by making imprudent expansions versus closing the airport.

London and Amsterdam metro areas are quite different each other: the former has 13 million and the latter only 2 million. Furthermore, their main airports are in different locations: Heathrow is inside the urban zone, whereas Schiphol is outside. An accident like the last one involving Schiphol (Turkish 737) would have been much more severe if had involved Heathrow.

^^
Surrounding communities of Heathrow in general do have a problem with the airport. If they did not, there would not exist so many non-governmental organizations against Heathrow, and you would not have your 'exceptions' to mention.



The minority often have the loudest voice, the silent majority either don't care, or are broadly supportive.

^^
Surrounding communities of Heathrow in general do have a problem with the airport. If they did not, there would not exist so many non-governmental organizations against Heathrow, and you would not have your 'exceptions' to mention.

If Heathrow is running regularly at almost 100%, that is a negligence which is better solved by reducing operations (maybe by limiting intercontinental flights to aircrafts bigger than A330 or reducing fees for airlines that operate A380/B-777-300), not by making imprudent expansions versus closing the airport.

London and Amsterdam metro areas are quite different each other: the former has 13 million and the latter only 2 million. Furthermore, their main airports are in different locations: Heathrow is inside the urban zone, whereas Schiphol is outside. An accident like the last one involving Schiphol (Turkish 737) would have been much more severe if had involved Heathrow.There are 20 million people in SE England. The Netherlands is about the same size as SE England and has 17 million people. All of these people are within the catchment areas for Heathrow and Schiphol respectively.

^^
That does not make SE England similar to the Netherlands.
The minority often have the loudest voice, the silent majority either don't care, or are broadly supportive.
Do you mean BAA and airlines are the minority? Perhaps they are.

Oakley Lad,
BAA is not disclosed enough nor loyal to surrounding communities to make we believe Heathrow East Terminal will be for only 30 million.
That narrow-minded idea of maintaining Heathrow lead over CDG or FRA just discredit even more BAA and the UK`s CAA, because no airport had to be so traffic thickened as Heathrow, no matter the size of terminals it has.
So many aircrafts in Heathrow`s ramps endangers collisions between them/other vehicles. Furthermore, Heathrow is too close to the city and already provides a quite dense air traffic over it, putting safety under threat and making the air more and more polluted.
At least symbolically, Heathrow East project should to be pushed away.

The amount of people inside the terminals is irrelevant whilst the slots are still limited, and they will be until the third runway. Even a higher roof would give the impression of space, moreso that terminals 1 and 2 combined.

As ever, I challenge the idea that you are in practice actually familiar with the airport.

Once that happens, there will be terminal 6, so the amount of people will be fine.

^^ That does not make SE England similar to the Netherlands.For the purposes of our discussion here they are very similar. The main difference is that in SE England the population is nucleated arround one large metropolis wheras in Netherlands they are clustered into several.

Schipol serves the whole of the nation as it's primary airport, and parts of Belgium and Germany - and some might argue it's the true gateway for the regional UK, in addition to Dubai!

i hope they at least put more seats in the new one cause termanal five had no seats at all so if ur flight was cancelled u would normally have to wait 6 hours on foot then they will shut up shop just as u got to the front where theres someone working 1 out of 14 desks......not really on task i juyst wanted to be heard

Found out today Queens Building will be closing for good this June. Most of it has already been gutted inside and I would assume when T2 closes this December demolition will start then.

I'm glad 'something's' happening, taken their time though.