^^ Ok i don't take ur lectures personally i just though it wasnt fair for u to only lecture m8 users and ignore m14 :)

Btw, how does it work nowadays, what about if lets say Hezbollah would incorporate christian and sunni members in their party on which you can vote. Would this mean that then they could get a majoraty or is this impossible? Isn't it possible to mix the parties this way.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/img/ap_logo.gif?hl=en

Renewed Lebanese drug trade hikes Mideast tensions
By BASSEM MROUE (AP)

BAALBEK, Lebanon — Lebanon's drug-producing heartland is back in business with a resurgence of marijuana and poppy fields, challenging the country's underpowered security forces and adding another dimension to Israel's war with Hezbollah militants.

Associated Press interviews with farmers and Lebanese officials, and documents from international organizations that monitor drugs, show that the drug trade in the Bekaa Valley has ramped up again since its drop following the 1975-1990 civil war.

Israel's Anti-Drug Authority claims Hezbollah is behind the flow of cross-border drugs as part of its war on the Jewish state. Hezbollah denies abetting drugs, saying it's un-Islamic.

Production in the Bekaa peaked during the civil war, then died down to the point where the U.S. removed Lebanon from its list of big producers in 1997.

But on a recent visit by the AP, acres of cannabis were seen growing behind concealing stands of tall corn stalks, and farmers spoke openly of the fortunes they are making off the plants.

The Lebanese government, long preoccupied with violent political clashes in the country, has begun striking back by plowing up fields.

It's hard to pin down independently what role Hezbollah plays in the trade, but the flat, green Bekaa Valley, with its sunny Mediterranean climate and terrorism-filled history, is a Hezbollah stronghold.

"The accusation is that Hezbollah, given its strong presence in the Bekaa and its unmatched influence there, is heavily involved in the trade, though indirectly, for ideological reasons," said Bilal Saab, a Lebanon expert at the University of Maryland. "However, there is no independent evidence of this involvement."

Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah strongly denies Israel's charge of "narcoterrorism." In a speech last month, he claimed the Israelis were trying to put a political spin on what in his view is simply a drug operation run by Lebanese drug dealers in collusion with Israeli border guards.

Israeli police say that based on evidence gathered from interrogating busted traffickers, nothing happens on the Lebanon-Israel border without Hezbollah's consent.

Aram Nerguizian, an expert at the U.S.-based Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C., says Hezbollah has enough financial support without depending on drug money, but uses the drug trade to gather intelligence on the Israeli military.

Shamai Golan, a spokesman for Israel's Anti-Drug Authority, agrees the main goal is to gather intelligence information, but also to weaken Israeli society.

Last year his agency ran an advertising campaign featuring an image of Hezbollah leader Nasrallah wafting out of a smoky pipe with the slogan: "At the end of every joint sits Nasrallah ... Drug users are lending a hand to the next terror attack."

In 2006, an Israeli army lieutenant colonel, Omar el-Heib, was sent to jail for 15 years for relaying maps and information about tank positions, troop deployments and the whereabouts of top Israeli commanders to Hezbollah in exchange for heroin, hashish, and thousands of dollars.

Besides Bekaa drugs, Golan said, is heroin from Afghanistan, four tons of which enter Israel annually through Lebanon, controlled by two Lebanese families who "answer directly to Hezbollah."

He said "there are dozens of documented cases" implicating Hezbollah and also Syria, which has influence in the Bekaa. On the other hand, Jordan is "doing great work" in stopping smugglers with drugs bound for Israel, he added.

Experts say the Lebanon trade is controlled by drug barons under the protection of powerful clans in the Bekaa Valley, largely beyond the reach of Lebanese authorities. About 10 families are involved, said Col. Adel Mashmoushi, the head of Lebanon's drug enforcement bureau.

"This is a clan affair most of the time," said Timor Goksel, a longtime U.N. official in Lebanon who is now a professor at the American University of Beirut. He noted that drug-growing was rife in the Bekaa Valley long before Hezbollah was created with Iranian backing in 1982.

This year's U.S. International Narcotics Control Strategy Report doesn't say whether Hezbollah is involved in drugs. It says last year's data show Morocco and Afghanistan have replaced Lebanon and Jordan as Israel's main source of drugs.

During the civil war, Bekaa drugs generated almost $500 million a year in revenues — 15 percent of the country's economy.

That money bought weapons and fighters for various sectarian militias. The Bekaa was notorious worldwide as a cauldron of terror and crime. Masked gunmen patrolled the streets brandishing automatic rifles and grenade launchers. Thousands of Iranian Revolutionary Guards and troops from neighboring Syria held sway, along with tribal warlords, and Syria was thought to benefit from parts of the drug trade.

Westerners were snatched off the streets of Beirut and held for years in the valley by militants allegedly linked to Hezbollah.

After the war ended, the U.S. pressured Lebanon and Syria to plow up most of the drug fields, and eventually the U.S. State Department dropped Lebanon from the offenders list.

But a 2009 report by the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime says "farmers appear to be resuming cannabis cultivation." Lebanon's government refuses to release the current estimate of volume but officials say they are less than during the civil war.

A spate of factional clashes around the country kept the military so busy that from 2006 until this year, the government made no effort to wipe out cannabis.

But in the spring the military started hunting drug smugglers, and things turned bloody when Bekaa gunmen killed four soldiers in an ambush. Undaunted, the government arrested 69 people, and in August and September it sent hundreds of policemen and workers into the Bekaa's northern districts of Baalbek and Hermel.

They bulldozed more than 3,000 acres of harvest-ready fields as soldiers in armored cars stood by to protect them from villagers whose weaponry includes automatic rifles and even mortars and rocket-propelled grenades.

The army is wary of going too far, said analyst Nerguizian. Instead, it "applies limited pressure ... without getting dragged into a broader confrontation with drug cartels," he said.

In many drug-producing countries, notably Afghanistan, farmers are offered money to switch to legal crops, but the farmers say the offers made in Lebanon never produced any money.

Abu Mohammed, a 65-year-old Bekaa farmer who has been in the drug business for 40 years, said he can net $1,200 off 1,000 square meters (10,000 sq feet) of land planted with cannabis, much more than other crops would bring in.

And "If I don't sell the hashish, I can keep it until next year and it does not need refrigerators," he said, asking to be identified by his nickname because he feared reprisals.

He lives in a handsome two-story stone villa. Drug profits paid for it, he said.

Associated Press Writer Ian Deitch contributed to this report from Jerusalem.

Army Arrests 5 Palestinians Over Arms Possession in Baalbeck

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/0/4dc568986a21633cc22576980048f5c5/Body/0.82?OpenElement&FieldElemFormat=jpg

The Lebanese army arrested five Palestinians carrying weapons and ammunition into a home in the eastern city of Baalbeck, the army command said in a communiqué.
It said the army raided the home and seized arms, ammunition, electronic devices, money and two vehicles from the five men.

The military opened an investigation into the incident pending the handing over of the Palestinians and their possessions to relevant authorities.


Beirut, 26 Dec 09, 15:24

Beirut car bomb explosion 'targets Hamas official'
BBC map

At least one person has died in a bomb in the south of Lebanese capital Beirut that may have targeted an official from the Palestinian group, Hamas.

Security sources say that explosives went off under a vehicle in a stronghold of Lebanon's Islamist militant group Hezbollah.

A number of people were also wounded in the explosion, one of them seriously.

The Lebanese state news agency says that "three bombs tied to each other" were placed under the vehicle.

A senior police official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the Associated Press Saturday's blast had occurred in a neighbourhood that houses a Hamas office.

Osama Hamdan, the Hamas representative in Lebanon, was not available for comment, according to a person who answered his mobile phone, AP adds.

Hamas, which effectively controls the Gaza Strip inside the Palestinian territories, has representatives both in Beirut and in neighbouring Syria.
------------------------------------
According to the most recent news, 3 dead and 5 wounded. :ohno: Here we go again?

Osama Hamdan does not accuse any party for death of two Hamas officials


During a press conference on Sunday, Hamas Representative in Lebanon Osama Hamdan said he refuses to accuse any party of killing its officials, Bassel Jomaa and Hassan Haddad, in the car explosion that took place in Haret Hreik in Dahiyeh on Saturday.

Hamdan said that Jomaa was a security official and that Haddad was among the movement’s political representatives. He also said the explosion occurred near the Islamic resistance movement’s office.

According to Hamdan, relevant authorities are following-up on the issue, and he called for waiting for investigation results before jumping to conclusions. He added, however, that the movement does take into consideration that “Israel tracks its officials.”

-NOW Lebanon

Mitri: Let Hizbullah Prove Sayings by Actions

Information Minister Tarek Mitri on Sunday said that security forces "were not able to perform the minimum of their duties after the explosion that took place in Beirut's Southern Suburbs Saturday night."
In an interview with Voice of Lebanon radio station, Mitri added: "Security cannot be segregated and a security mission cannot be separated from another."

Mitri stressed that Hizbullah "has to prove sayings by actions," and added that Hizbullah officials always say that "they want the State to perform its duties, and that no area is restricted to its authority."

"The credibility of all sides is at the stake and they have to respect their sayings," added Mitri.

-Naharnet-

Jumblatt, just wow.. :lol:

-g2O_TKGezI

HAHAHHAHAH this video is the best. Although I do not agree with his politics all that much, his dance skills are unquestionable. They are tops. lol

Looks like Jumblatts got some competition from Geagea (but it seems like Jumblats the true dance king with hit hot moves)
skip to :37 to see Geagea

uQZs1D5_QAs

Is it me, or Joumblatt looks like Mr. Bean :lol::lol::lol:

Jumblatt, just wow.. :lol:

-g2O_TKGezI

This video should come with a warning!

um .... fire burning fire burning on the dance floor, that little shorty's fire burning on the dancefloor.

I never noticed it the first time watching but the granny that comes to dance with Jumblatt is hilarious!

Also.. anyone have any idea where this was? Like what occasion could have happened that all politicians were expected to dance in crowded club like setting ahha

Looks like Jumblatts got some competition from Geagea (but it seems like Jumblats the true dance king with hit hot moves)
skip to :37 to see Geagea

uQZs1D5_QAs

Proudly dancing the Lebanese Dabke,but the sound is fake,it's not what they arr dancing to?

Israel Mulling Withdrawal from Ghajar in Two Phases
Israel was willing to adopt a United Nations plan for the withdrawal of Israeli troops from the Lebanese border town of Ghajar, Israel radio reported.
Citing political sources in Israel, the radio said the Jewish state was ready to pull out from Ghajar and put the northern part of the village under UNIFIL control.

The sources said Israel will withdraw from the territory under U.N. resolution 1701 that ended the 34-day Israel-Hizbullah war.

They said Israel was mulling the possibility of carrying out the withdrawal in two phases, such as the first phase would be a tryout.

The second phase, however, is be completed after making sure that "UNFIL succeeds in preventing Hizbullah from annoying the village's residents," according to the sources.

They said the Director General of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs is in contact with UNIFIL to guarantee the peacekeepers' deployment on the outskirts of Ghajar to "protect residents who have Israeli identity cards made available to them by Hizbullah."

The rest of Ghajar would remain under Israel. According to residents, who claim Syrian identity, the decision would divide families.

Israel radio said Ghajar residents fear they would be harassed by Hizbullah following the Israeli withdrawal.


Beirut, 28 Dec 09, 07:32

-------------------------------------------------------------------

why don't they just go to the southern syrian part, and demolish all homes in norhtern part as they were built under israeli occupation to that Lebanese land?this land can be used in agriculture,it must have some owners from the Lebanese side.

In his weekly article published in Al-Anbaa newspaper on Monday, Progressive Socialist Party leader MP Walid Jumblatt said that the Haret Hreik incident, which took place on Saturday night leaving three dead, is a “sabotage act that only confirms the [depth and breadth] of Israel’s aggressions against Lebanon, either through recurrent violations of Lebanon’s airspace, land and sea or through security incidents.”

Jumblatt called for providing the necessary support for Lebanon’s security services, especially the Lebanese Armed Forces-Intelligence Branch, to help it uncover Israeli espionage networks and handle other serious violations.

-NOW Lebanon

Is it me, or Joumblatt looks like Mr. Bean :lol::lol::lol:

It's just you!

In his weekly article published in Al-Anbaa newspaper on Monday, Progressive Socialist Party leader MP Walid Jumblatt said that the Haret Hreik incident, which took place on Saturday night leaving three dead, is a “sabotage act that only confirms the [depth and breadth] of Israel’s aggressions against Lebanon, either through recurrent violations of Lebanon’s airspace, land and sea or through security incidents.”

Jumblatt called for providing the necessary support for Lebanon’s security services, especially the Lebanese Armed Forces-Intelligence Branch, to help it uncover Israeli espionage networks and handle other serious violations.

-NOW Lebanon

If jumblat said it than it must be true

Israel Mulling Withdrawal from Ghajar in Two Phases

Israel radio said Ghajar residents fear they would be harassed by Hizbullah following the Israeli withdrawll
This is entertaining.

Hmmm... Does Hizbullah collect any kind of "local tax" typical for most "state within a state" cases in the world?

No.

Hmmm... Does Hizbullah collect any kind of "local tax" typical for most "state within a state" cases in the world?

No but they control your life and tell you how to think!

^^This is only one side of the story actually.

No.Oh, now I finally see why they are tolerated by the Lebanese government so long. They have monies only from external "founders" which still would be pretty illegal in many other countries unless they are treated as non-profit social NGO ;)

hmm....



Total Posts in this thread: 3,525


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Leb10452km 88
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No but they control your life and tell you how to think!

yes, they really decide for you what to wear... :lol:

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs094.snc1/4957_205970840205_723270205_7185493_1227415_n.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs094.snc1/4957_205970970205_723270205_7185517_4608018_n.jpg

I dont think all Eastern Med Arabs look alike. [edited]
is that so? probably u never been to south lebanon or 3kar or bekaa valley, where people look like just the kind of people u see in the poor and back streets of cairo, damascus and rabat.
so, stop painting the image pink, cuz we've been to lebanon b4 & we know the real image of ur country. u can't fool us man.

IF YOU TALK ONE SINGLE MORE TIME ABOUT SOUTH LEBANON!!!!!! HAVE YOU EVER BEEN THERE, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT AND ABOUT ITS PEOPLE?! NEXT TIME YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING, CHECK YOUR SOURCES!

Oh and you're from al wakrah? haha Seriously ALL Khalijis are the same! That's the kind of people we are dying to have as "tourists"? LOOOL stay in your country, it will be much better for you and for us.

And about "we know the real image of your country"...:rofl: If it's that bad, I think you don't want to remember it, so next time you see the word 'lebanon' just shut it and don't try to think about it. You think by visting 4-5 towns ya3ne 5alas you know the 'real' Lebanon?

IF YOU TALK ONE SINGLE MORE TIME ABOUT SOUTH LEBANON!!!!!! HAVE YOU EVER BEEN THERE, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT AND ABOUT ITS PEOPLE?! NEXT TIME YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING, CHECK YOUR SOURCES!

in 2001, went to qana, mesile7 & tyre in south lebanon. got a shock from what i saw, the amount of povetry, misery and filth. yet, u call urself 'switzerland of the orient'. hah!

Oh and you're from al wakrah? haha Seriously ALL Khalijis are the same! That's the kind of people we are dying to have as "tourists"? LOOOL stay in your country, it will be much better for you and for us.

And about "we know the real image of your country"...:rofl: If it's that bad, I think you don't want to remember it, so next time you see the word 'lebanon' just shut it and don't try to think about it. You think by visting 4-5 towns ya3ne 5alas you know the 'real' Lebanon?

those khalijis, u 'brothers of haifa" r dying 2 go to live and work there, u don't even mind standing in lines in front of khaliji emabassies for days just to get a visa, so u can get rid, and leave behinde that hell on earth called "lebanon". boo hoo hoo!!! u poor thing.

In...2001? Wait, Isn't this one year after the end of the War with Israel? Pathetic! What do you expect to see ONE year after the israelis left? Do you really think they would able to rebuild all these towns in ONE year? I personally have before/after pics of my town in South Lebanon which got renovated in 2004, and today it looks like NOTHING it used to be.

And 'dying to lie there'? I don't think so. 'Dying to work' yes, let it be in Dubai, Beirut, Paris, New York, Australia or South Africa, because we know how to do proper jobs, and we're intelligent, you are the ones are are dying to employ Lebanese people. And don't think people would go to the Gulf if it wasn't for money. Have you seen how saudis for example treat people? Oh wait, I think it's normal for you, because you're khaliji, just like him!

^^ur pathetic. U know i went to downtown today and what did i see??? khaligies,khaliejies,khaliejies. Firstly lets begin with with ur double standard religion belives. In the gulf u losers pretend ur super religious u dont live life, u put ur woman in cages, u disrepect non-muslims. But when ur women come to our country they turn into pathetic sluts. They despertatly have sex with whatever man they find. They drink alcholol. And they go to nighclubs(u guys also believe that having fun is against ur ideologies) Ur men spend millions purchasing prostitutes. Ur whole believes about life is completely double-standard. Lets take a history lesson my friend. Before u guys found oil, u where living in mud huts barely making a living. Syria, and Jordan where villages, and guess what Lebanon was the paris of the middle east, we had tourists we had the greatest city in the eastern world. The reason why the war stretchered so long, was because without beirut being in ruins the middle east would go nowhere, absoultely nowhere. My freind without oil your country would have the highest rates of poverty, highest crime rates, and lowest standart of living. Lebanese had the brains to build a world-class city. Not a speck of oil. The only talent u guys have is trying to look good in ur dish-dashis. Lets spin to the future. Dubai is run by Lebanese. CEO's are AUB graduates runing all ur companies. Khaliejies come into the office at 11 and leave at 5. Not to mention they take 5 prayer breaks a day. Now in Dubai mall 70 percent of the franchises are lebanese(Cafe blanc, bob's, crep away, nando's, roadsters, Patchi, scoozi, mandarin and a shitload moree) The other 30 percent u guessed western compaines. Imagine a country with ur wealth doesnt have even a speck of talent to own 1 franchise. Now who works in these resturants?? Indians Phillipines, who are the mechanics,plumbers,drivers,cleaners, policemen, and every single job in ur country YUPPPP phillipinos and indians. Now where does 80 percent of ur people go to in the summer LEBANON. Ur people know that there countries are artifical, ugly, and disgusting so they FLOCCKKK to lebanon. So without a doubt if there was no lebanon Khaliejies and the Khalejj would be in deep shit. So i think u need to shut up, because u do not have much of a aurgument. :)

Dont waste ur time convincing him about South Lebanon, if he didnt have a high enough IQ to realize that he visited jnoub one year after a 18 year occupation and didnt see a jeineh, he wont be able to grasp ur tough concepts. Their great at seducing philipino chicks. :)

in 2001, went to qana, mesile7 & tyre in south lebanon. got a shock from what i saw, the amount of povetry, misery and filth. yet, u call urself 'switzerland of the orient'. hah!

Boy, stop embarrassing yourself! Here are images not from the South or North of your country, but from the capital itself!
http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5479/dsc05568w.jpg

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2317/dsc05569.jpg

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3147/dsc05570h.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1581/dsc05571q.jpg

What are you gonna say now? that non-locals live in these slums?
Well that would be the difference between your country and mine!

We don't try to pretend to be something we are not! Any signs of poverty weather in Beirut, the south, Palestinian camps, ... is a reflection of our economic and political situation and we take full responsibility for it without trying to paint an unreal and twisted picture.

Our communities/workforce/youth movement ... is proudly made of Lebanese nationals with unconditional love to their country and with a constant drive to build and rebuild a nation! What do YOU have to show for yourself?

And one more thing, it is half-men like you who made Haifa Wehbe that famous by drooling all over her. She's actually not that popular in Lebanon!

^^^
You made my year worth it!! What a reply.

Look wakrah-wi-bas, dont go into other forums and start bashing people's countries.

Especially when you come from al-wakrah, beirut might have its eye sores, but I'd live there over any gulf state shit hole you might be living in.

P.S I had to look up your city to even know where it is..... according to the world wide web... al-wakrah has a football stadium... thats about it.. Good luck with that.

Ya khaye now i hardly post in this thread, if not at all

hmm....



Total Posts in this thread: 3,525


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Leb10452km 88
Guy 69
lebnani 65
þopsï 50
Lebneni 45
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TEHR_IR 43
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HerrParhom 41
MARTYR 39
Alon 32
john2890 31
DingoBingo 29
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Nadini 23
sargon 22
Fighter786 20
metal gear 20
grzes 19
jb_nl 19
NorthPole 19
AmeriLEB 18
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Tabouleh 15
ZOHAR 14
mahdial_x5 14
kheireddine 13
Abu 3Leish 13
>Sanchez< 13
asif iqbal 12
NEWUSER 11
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Daryae_Abi 11
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asb63 9
phoenician.guy 9
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rezam 8
R9_ 8
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crazyeight 6
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Ramy H 5
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aezzeddi 4
abbass 3
annie23 3
Neoxsparkx 3
Giladist 3
neoo1982 3
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SpotlessMind 2
egypt69 2
Tama 2
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shugs 2
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Very Controversial 1
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gamayun 1
danholo 1
loveinbeirut 1
Lebanese_bebe 1
Gilgamesh VI 1
hsbourgi 1
TheGlobalizer 1
Redalinho 1

^^ I know, I just thought it would be a funny end-of-year post - since unfortunately this has been the most active thread of the year for SSC-Leb.

I came 6th :D

^^ The lower the better...

^^ The lower the better...

so I win :D but mostly people here are to bussy fighting each other instead of answering me :lol:

btw, about arabs, not the same at all, just like those shitty americans who are always talking about "yurpians", while we don't feel like "yurpians", we feel like dutch, german, french, spanish etc, but we work together in the EU. That's it.

so I win :D but mostly people here are to bussy fighting each other instead of answering me :lol:

btw, about arabs, not the same at all, just like those shitty americans who are always talking about "yurpians", while we don't feel like "yurpians", we feel like dutch, german, french, spanish etc, but we work together in the EU. That's it. what does that have to do with anything

BTW, to the Qatari guy who is insulting Lebanon. I agree with you and disagree with you at the same time. I know this is stating the obvious, but I could care less about either Lebanon or Qatar (given that we are 'enemies' and such). Given my lack of loyalties or personal attachment to either country, I can tell you, that, as an outsider looking in, Qatar has got nothing on Lebanon in terms of culture, cuisine, music, history and overall beauty. Your country is simply a pile of sand that sits on top one of the largest deposits of natural gas and petroleum in the world. While I do admire what Qatar is trying to do with its wealth (e.g., the construction of Education city), I think it is ridiculous for you to insult a country that in many ways is far better (for lack of better term) than your own, using some of your own criteria.

^^ I know, I just thought it would be a funny end-of-year post - since unfortunately this has been the most active thread of the year for SSC-Leb.

It has also been a rough year for Lebanon. Doha ,elections,etc.

BTW, to the Qatari guy who is insulting Lebanon. I agree with you and disagree with you at the same time. I know this is stating the obvious, but I could care less about either Lebanon or Qatar (given that we are 'enemies' and such). Given my lack of loyalties or personal attachment to either country, I can tell you, that, as an outsider looking in, Qatar has got nothing on Lebanon in terms of culture, cuisine, music, history and overall beauty. Your country is simply a pile of sand that sits on top one of the largest deposits of natural gas and petroleum in the world. While I do admire what Qatar is trying to do with its wealth (e.g., the construction of Education city), I think it is ridiculous for you to insult a country that in many ways is far better (for lack of better term) than your own, using some of your own criteria.

culture my foot! lebanese people commited masacres a mind can't comprehend against each others (e.g. ehden, safra, sabra & chatila), yet u come to preach us as how lebanese are cultured? how dare u? u'r nothing but an ignorant bastard , and lebanon is a pile of shit!

^^ I dont see how massacres and culture relate, you're probably just jealous

culture my foot! lebanese people commited masacres a mind can't comprehend against each others (e.g. ehden, safra, sabra & chatila), yet u come to preach us as how lebanese are cultured? how dare u? u'r nothing but an ignorant bastard , and lebanon is a pile of shit!

its quite clear you have no class whats so ever talking like that....

culture my foot! lebanese people commited masacres a mind can't comprehend against each others (e.g. ehden, safra, sabra & chatila), yet u come to preach us as how lebanese are cultured? how dare u? u'r nothing but an ignorant bastard , and lebanon is a pile of shit!

the civil war...every country has endured one, people are confused, shit happens, the end!!!

culture my foot! lebanese people commited masacres a mind can't comprehend against each others (e.g. ehden, safra, sabra & chatila), yet u come to preach us as how lebanese are cultured? how dare u? u'r nothing but an ignorant bastard , and lebanon is a pile of shit!

The french have had bloody civil conflicts = The french Revolution.
The Germans = The Holocaust
The Spanish = Civil War
The Americans = The American Civil war

I just listed some of the most cultured nations in the world... whats your point. Civil wars are often a manifestations of diverging Ideologies and thoughts in a society and often mark turning points for the cultures that experience them....

As my first post of 2010... I wish you and your culture.. a spark of the thoughts, Ideas and inspiration that is in one grain of lebanese soil. This land is soaked with our blood, our sweat and tears.... and thats worth more than any amount of money you might have.

You might be made of money but we are made out of passion. That is worth EVERYTHING.

allah ykhaleekon, lat rido 3a hal mastool....If lebanon was truly the "pile of shit" he claims it to be, it wouldn't have gained international attention has the emergent "Paris of the East".....furthermore, only jealous people would actually come to the Lebanon forums to bash it!

allah ykhaleekon, lat rido 3a hal mastool....If lebanon was truly the "pile of shit" he claims it to be, it wouldn't have gained international attention has the emergent "Paris of the East".....furthermore, only jealous people would actually come to the Lebanon forums to bash it!

I agree with you about el mastool, but only would like to take this oportunity to say that i think its time that we as lebanese STOP claiming our capital to be the paris of the middle east, and the paris of this and paris of that... Its a bit cheap to label our city with another. I think we should build Beirut with an imagine of its own rather than use "paris" as a marketing tool to draw people to it.

Besides, put yourself in the feet of a frenchman and imagine what they would think? I mean each time a lebanese person says that, they're probably saying "oh, what a bunch of losers, can't they come up with something of their own?"

Some national pride won't harm :) .. hee, hee..

right, back to bashing that qatari... :bash:

wakrah-wi-bas, u are one sad person, ur country will never be worth anything, your country will never come within the vincinty of being beautiful, and its a matter of ignorance, and stupidy to claim that Qautar is near Lebanon in any aspect. The facts are clear, and in front of u, they are confirmed by the world, confirmed by khalijies on a daily basis. So you in fact have NO aurgument what so ever, as proven in the last 2 pages. So for ur own good stop embarrasing yourself, by posting in this thread.

Just because some individual looser decides to bash Lebanon, doesn't mean we should bash Qatar. We need to watch our language. We should not tolerate nationalistic egocentric views in here.

Just because some individual looser decides to bash Lebanon, doesn't mean we should bash Qatar.

:applause:

culture my foot! lebanese people commited masacres a mind can't comprehend against each others (e.g. ehden, safra, sabra & chatila), yet u come to preach us as how lebanese are cultured? how dare u? u'r nothing but an ignorant bastard , and lebanon is a pile of shit!

I agree with Melkart's comment. Both Lebanese and Qataris have reason to be proud of their countries.

And yes, cultured societies can still be capable of great violence, as one poster noted when referring to America, Germany, Spain, etc.

Lol...I find it funny that you call Lebanon a pile of shit (which may or may not be true, I have yet to find this out myself), considering that many of your fellow Khaleejis spend a great deal of time and money vacationing to Lebanon, enjoying its food and music and culture, and trying to woo Lebanese girls.

Most of the comments are true from wakrah-wi-bas. I am Lebanese who lives in Sweden and this is some comments which reflect my opinion, please stick to civilized replies...

The civil war occured in Lebanon, 100 000 got killed and many tousnads got injured but we saw no trials...
more than 50% of people are poor...
-we should have more regulations to protect poor people,
-we should develop our political system to avoid making a new civil war, don't forget that for one year ago we were about to have a new civil war.
-Beirut should reflect the success of the lebaneses aboard, beirut should have its own identity and like paris or Swiss.
- for Wakrah-wi-bas. this my opinion about your country and most arab countries:
1.without the oil, you still probably live in the tent.
2.lack of human rights, you treat people differently, you kiss the s of american and beat the Indian...you are a big rasist country.
3. in politics, Qatar has ties with everyone, from the Iranians to the Israelis... how come.

Most of the lebanese are educated and contribute to humanity with brains, like Doctors, Teachers, engineers and businessmen...

What did you contribute?

^^ they contributed in the Global warming with their oil

^^ they contributed in the Global warming with their oil

^^
They also pump huge sums of money into the Lebanese economy...

ya kalle_leb min wein 3am bit khareif ur fast facts????

The official facts about the peasants on our streets is that 40 percent of them are Syrian, 20 percent Egyptian 30 percent Palestinian and just 10 percent Lebanese.

And where the hell did u bring the theory that more then 50 percent of Lebanese are peasants; who are u shitting??

Less then 15 percent of the population are peasants and out of that 15 percent, less then 10 percent are Lebanese.- OFFICIAL FIGURES

You talk about abolishing the secularism system like it takes a snap of a finger. Look into the this thread more and you will see the numerous discussions we had about that issue. Other then that what you say is true. :)

Qatar has pumped money, but when over half of their population lives in Lebanon for 4 months of the year, their slim aid is nothing to take elaborate on.

ya kalle_leb min wein 3am bit khareif ur fast facts????

The official facts about the peasants on our streets is that 40 percent of them are Syrian, 20 percent Egyptian 30 percent Palestinian and just 10 percent Lebanese.

And where the hell did u bring the theory that more then 50 percent of Lebanese are peasants; who are u shitting??

Less then 15 percent of the population are peasants and out of that 15 percent, less then 10 percent are Lebanese.- OFFICIAL FIGURES

You talk about abolishing the secularism system like it takes a snap of a finger. Look into the this thread more and you will see the numerous discussions we had about that issue. Other then that what you say is true. :)


your figures are not correct, i searched in the internet and i found this study and other studies look alike.


The absolute poverty line, which is defined in Lebanon as the income level at which an average family of five can meet its food requirements and other basic needs such as health, education, housing and clothing, was estimated at $618 per month at the end of 1993. In the same period, the extreme poverty line, defined as the income level at which a family of five can meet only its food requirements, was estimated at $306 per month.[1] Given these figures, 28% of Lebanese families are estimated to live below the absolute poverty line, while, of these, 7.25% live below the extreme poverty line. This implies that around one million Lebanese live in poverty, while 250,000 of them live in extreme poverty.[2]


In rural areas, 75% of families whose primary provider works in agriculture are poor, and 40% of these are extremely poor. Two thirds of the extremely poor - around 165,000 - live in rural areas and represent more than a quarter of the population in these areas.


In urban centers, namely Beirut, Tripoli, Sidon, Tyre, Zahleh, and their suburbs, there are around 750,000 poor, around 90,000 of whom are extremely poor. The urban poor mainly belong to families whose primary provider works in the civil service (31% of which live below the absolute poverty line) or in industry (26% of which live below the absolute poverty line). Some 8% of urban families live below the extreme poverty line, 5% in the civil service and 3% in industry.

source: http://www.lcps-lebanon.org/pub/tlr/96/sum96/poor_in_lebanon.html
http://www.undp.org.lb/programme/pro-poor/poverty/povertyinlebanon/index.cfm

ya kalle_leb min wein 3am bit khareif ur fast facts????

The official facts about the peasants on our streets is that 40 percent of them are Syrian, 20 percent Egyptian 30 percent Palestinian and just 10 percent Lebanese.

And where the hell did u bring the theory that more then 50 percent of Lebanese are peasants; who are u shitting??

Less then 15 percent of the population are peasants and out of that 15 percent, less then 10 percent are Lebanese.- OFFICIAL FIGURES

You talk about abolishing the secularism system like it takes a snap of a finger. Look into the this thread more and you will see the numerous discussions we had about that issue. Other then that what you say is true. :)

"peasants" ??? are you some kind of rich arab living in lebanon who looks down on poor people and treats them like shit?! :ohno: i think you mean "poor" though !!
Those figures look a bit unrealistic (in a good way!), but do you have some sources?





more than 50% of people are poor...


The absolute poverty line, which is defined in Lebanon as the income level at which an average family of five can meet its food requirements and other basic needs such as health, education, housing and clothing, was estimated at $618 per month at the end of 1993. In the same period, the extreme poverty line, defined as the income level at which a family of five can meet only its food requirements, was estimated at $306 per month.[1] Given these figures, 28% of Lebanese families are estimated to live below the absolute poverty line, while, of these, 7.25% live below the extreme poverty line. This implies that around one million Lebanese live in poverty, while 250,000 of them live in extreme poverty.

I love the change from 50% to 28% :P . that said however, 28% is still too much. and one has to consider the fact that the poverty line drawn is done so for lebanese standards, so technically many people who are listed as 'above poverty line' can still be considered poor by european standards for example.
Also, the rich-poor divide is dangerously wide, and gets wider and wider all the time. well-off people earn similar to european salaries. while the poor, usually uneducated, find it hard to survive. a fact very visible in the society and a shame to be honest :( .

Also, why are the Lebanese GDP stats online so different from one site to the other. A quick search online lead me to those GDP per capita stats: 6350, 7200, 10300, 13,951 ! can anybody explain/solve this?

^^ I know, I just thought it would be a funny end-of-year post - since unfortunately this has been the most active thread of the year for SSC-Leb.Your surprising is surprising :) On every forum where there's only one thread for politics talk, the thread is most active. Additionally this thread is not only for political stuff (in Lebanon policy is something very different from other countries, you know why), but for everything controversial (all controversial posts are moved here and the discussion continues in this thread, while before 2009 most such posts were just deleted).
As long as there's some place for such posts, other places of the forum are clean and forumers are not being banned. Such threads are representing the darker side of our souls and I bet the ones not posting here are doing it in other places of the Internet (which is not so bad idea) or are wife beaters :lol:

Your article is extremely outdated, and most importately fails to adress my aurgument that the majority of the beggars are not Lebanese.

Here is a article from September 2009, versus the studies from 1991(RIGHT AFTER A 15 YEAR CIVIL WAR) that you posted. :)




While there are many societal ills in Lebanon, the situation of street children is one of the most visible. At almost every busy intersection and crowded street of the capital, children peddle trinkets such as roses, chewing gum and Kleenex, or they simply implore passers-by for change.

Both begging and child labor are illegal, although like many laws in Lebanon, these are seldom enforced. It is not uncommon to see street children begging or selling items in full view of police officers who do nothing, largely because there are few official channels through which to handle the children if they are caught.

There is only one institution mandated to work with such children, the Lebanese Evangelical Institute’s Home of Hope. The live-in rehabilitation center for street children was created under the auspices of the Ministry of Social Affairs in 1999. Although Home of Hope is currently facing a significant lack of funding and staff, it nonetheless offers children an invaluable alternative to life on the streets, providing them with elementary schooling, therapy and a place to live.

But because it is illegal to hold children for any extended period of time, they are only admitted to Home of Hope via a court order that grants the center legal custody until they turn 18.

Often, however, a child’s parents will go to the center and sign a statement that says they will not allow their children back onto the street, according to Khawla Mattar of the International Labor Organization (ILO). “Once the parent signs the statement, the center is then not allowed to keep them there, so they go back with their parents, which means they go back to the streets.”

Though it seems strange that a parent would rather have a child working on the streets than staying in the comfortable and safe environment of the Home of Hope, there is a strong economic incentive for poor parents to retain custody of their children, rather than cede it to any charitable organization.

“You know some parents have 12 to 14 children,” said John Eter, the founding director of Home of Hope. “They find this a very lucrative business. On average a child earns 30,000 LL [$20] to 50,000 LL [$33.3] per day. If you have around ten children, that’s 500,000 LL [$333.3] per day. That’s better than what some doctors make.”

According to Mattar, the ILO and several NGOs are working to create more comprehensive legislation to protect children in such cases, which would allow them to remain in the custody of Home of Hope without a court order should they be found to be abused or exploited by their family members.

However, based on precedent, it will likely take many years for a draft law to materialize, if it ever does.

From 2001 until 2007 the ILO undertook a national project to combat child labor in Lebanon. Police were taught how to handle street children in accordance with their recognized rights and were trained to monitor them so they could identify who was exploiting them.

“But with the change in the ministries, the priorities of the different ministries of Interior and the changes of the political scenery in Lebanon, this has unfortunately not been a continued process,” said Khawla.

In light of the current cabinet crisis, it is likely further efforts will face similar hurdles.

While exploitative parents are one reason many poor children beg on the streets, the lack of proper documentation is another reason few ever leave. Few street children have any sort of ID, and as such have little hope of obtaining the paperwork that would allow them to work legally once they turn 18.

In line with the Lebanese nationality law, if a child has a Lebanese father, he or she can obtain Lebanese citizenship and thus documentation. While there are no accurate statistics on street children, partial studies have estimated that only 7.5% are Lebanese, while 70% are Syrian, 6% are Iraqi, 1.5% are Palestinian and 1% are Egyptian.

“If they are not Lebanese, they have to prove where they are from and go to their embassy” to obtain an ID, said Tony Bou Abboud, a lawyer at the Azzi Law Firm.

But this is no easy feat, as most children on the streets were born out of wedlock, have absentee fathers, were abandoned by their parents or ran away from home, said Eter.

Instead, many remain stateless and undocumented, and are unable to attain legal jobs once they turn 18. They have few viable options except returning to the streets.

According to Mattar, the ILO launched an initiative last month that will tackle the problem of documentation for children of proven Syrian origin, but this project is still in its initial phase and will not help many children, like long-time Home of Hope resident Imad, whose name has been changed to protect his identity.

As a child, Imad ran away from an orphanage where he had been abused and took to the streets, where he begged for money. He was brought into Home for Hope and lived there until he turned 18. Despite having no documentation, Imad found a job, but was soon arrested for working illegally and spent two months in jail. Having no other options, save for returning to the streets, he went back to Home of Hope and will remain there until he can find a way to prove his nationality.

Imad maintains he is Lebanese while Eter believes he is probably Syrian, but as neither of them has any hard proof of Imad’s nationality, he cannot obtain documentation, and thus has no official identity or chance to work legally.

“This is like a prison,” he said. “I can’t do anything with my life.”

john i mean poor. sorry if someone misunderstood it.

your figures are not correct, i searched in the internet and i found this study and other studies look alike.


The absolute poverty line, which is defined in Lebanon as the income level at which an average family of five can meet its food requirements and other basic needs such as health, education, housing and clothing, was estimated at $618 per month at the end of 1993. In the same period, the extreme poverty line, defined as the income level at which a family of five can meet only its food requirements, was estimated at $306 per month.[1] Given these figures, 28% of Lebanese families are estimated to live below the absolute poverty line, while, of these, 7.25% live below the extreme poverty line. This implies that around one million Lebanese live in poverty, while 250,000 of them live in extreme poverty.[2]






wait so these "facts" are from 17 years ago?

Hi John

Also, why are the Lebanese GDP stats online so different from one site to the other. A quick search online lead me to those GDP per capita stats: 6350, 7200, 10300, 13,951 ! can anybody explain/solve this?[/QUOTE]

GDP (purchasing power parity):
$44.16 billion (2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 90
$41.54 billion (2007 est.)
$39.95 billion (2006 est.)
note: data are in 2008 US dollars

GDP (official exchange rate):
$29.35 billion (2008 est.)

GDP - real growth rate:
6.3% (2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 52
4% (2007 est.)
-4.3% (2006 est.)

GDP - per capita (PPP):
$11,100 (2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 98
$10,600 (2007 est.)
$10,300 (2006 est.)
note: data are in 2008 US dollars

I hope this info will make it clearer to you....:cheers:

source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/le.html

Fatah, Jund Al-Sham Clash in Ain Al-Hilweh, 1 Wounded

http://i45.tinypic.com/2rhxrug.jpg

Armed clashes erupted Saturday in the southern Palestinian refugee camp of Ain al-Hilweh between fighters from the mainstream Fatah Movement and Jund al-Sham Islamist militants, leaving one person wounded.
Machineguns and rocket-propelled grenades were used in the clashes.

After around half an hour of clashes, the joint security committee intervened to stop the fighting as contacts managed to put an end to the clashes amid a state of tension that prevailed in the camp with the remaining of rival fighters in the streets.

Mounir Maqdah, who commands the main Palestinian police force in Ain al-Hilweh, said the clash was contained after a meeting for the camp's security committee, saying that the clash erupted when Jund al-Sham members fired at a Fatah bureau in the camp.

Phalange and LF Youth Clash with Hizbullah Supporters in Meallah

Youth belonging to the Phalange Party and Lebanese Forces clashed with young Hizbullah members in Meallah and Meallah al-Shamaliyyah Saturday night, An Nahar daily reported.
MP Elie Marouni said that two young men from Meallah, George Munseb and George Metran, "were attacked by other youth just for passing through the area."

As for Hizbullah, it said that Saturday's clash came against the backdrop of another quarrel on New Year's Eve when "three youths removed Ashoura banners near al-Husseiniyah and erected Lebanese Forces banners."

The party described the clash as a childish behavior by youth who challenged each other.

^^ hisballah members beating up innocent bystanders. what's new?

melkart putting his nose where he shouldn't, what's new?

im awesome, letting everyone know that.

melkart putting his nose where he shouldn't, what's new?

it's a public forum it's my business to discuss what is posted.

im awesome, letting everyone know that.

:)

LOL yea well how is it we never see you around unless there's something about Hezbollah, or 8 march?

Yes, Jayme, we know that LOL

You are absolutly right, when I discuss politics, my stance is very clear I am an anti Hisballah activist, however I do post on other forumns where politics is banned. :)

:)

Probably I am very naif but I do believe that both countries could benefit from a peace treaty which would secure Lebanon security and integrity as well as boosting tourism greatly.
After all, Beirut and Tel Aviv are the go-go places for an international tourism looking for nighlife, beach, culture with a touch of "exotism".

My question is, what would be the demands both governments should treat in order to make peace?* What do you as Lebanese citizens think and feel?


*I mean only Lebanon and Israel, and advocate for looking at the future instead of the past (2006 confrontation in Southern Lebanon).

In case somebody feels offended about the question, I am sorry, but I am interested in hearing the opinions of the Lebanese people.

Well, Israel has been officially in peace with both Jordan and Egypt. Not necessarily an easy peace, but a stable one.

From those experiences, I'd say that key point would be Lebanese recognition of its own interests (not Syrian, Iranian or Palestinian ones). If Lebanon freed itself from Syrian influence and so on, it would see that best thing to Lebanon is to make peace with Israel. Now that they departed and gave back South Lebanon, there is not pending issue to solve between two countries. They should move one, which would put pressure in Syria too (though there is the Golan Heights issue there).

If there was a reasonable 2 state solution between the Israelis and Palestinians then I dont see a reason why there should not be peace

Well, Israel has been officially in peace with both Jordan and Egypt. Not necessarily an easy peace, but a stable one.

From those experiences, I'd say that key point would be Lebanese recognition of its own interests (not Syrian, Iranian or Palestinian ones). If Lebanon freed itself from Syrian influence and so on, it would see that best thing to Lebanon is to make peace with Israel. Now that they departed and gave back South Lebanon, there is not pending issue to solve between two countries. They should move one, which would put pressure in Syria too (though there is the Golan Heights issue there).

So the main reason for not having peace with Israel is the Syrian interventionism?

If there was a reasonable 2 state solution between the Israelis and Palestinians then I dont see a reason why there should not be peace

I understand that but how is that truly related to Lebanon? I mean, it's something between Lebanese and Israelis. The Palestinian refugees in Lebanon then?

I think Israel could be a good option in order to prevent Syria from deciding Lebanon's fate.

well... major obstacles for the peace treaty starts by hizbullah and its nonlebanese projects and ambitions ( no offense ...its a fact)
then ... syrian intervention ( knowing that they signed a secret deal with israel regarding golan and even economical agreements regarding all the goods and products from Golan heights that are sold in syrsian markets and jordanian ....)

and of course Pro Syrian and iranian puppets in lebanon who shout and consider the peace treaty with israel as DANGEROUS

well yea it is dangerous but only for them !! and their existence ....

other than that ! ....no problem ....MANY MANY lebanese dont mind at all , of its a normal peace treaty btw 2 sovereign countries with no intervention from any side what so ever.
on the other hand ! yea ! it will boost economy and tourism for both ends !
not to mention that finally i will be able to visit Jerusalem :)

MIBO,

I don't think there'll be peace until, at the very least, the Palestinians leave Lebanon. In addition, Israel will have to give up the Sheeba Farms to Lebanon (or to Syria) and to stop incursions into Lebanon. Conversely, Lebanon will need to disarm Hizbullah or to integrate it into the Lebanese army. Plus, most Lebanese as far as I can tell hate Israel for 1) destroying/invading their country and 2) for "forcing" the Palestinians onto their lands (i.e., Lebanon). Moreover, Lebanon is a very weak, divided along sectarian and political faultlines. So even if there was a desire among some Lebanese for peace with Israel, how would Israel be able to make peace with the entire Lebanese nation?

Me personally, I think peace is in everyone's best interest. If there exists a peace between Lebanon and Israel that will prevent us from killing each other and from making each other's lives miserable, then I am all for it. We don't have to love each other or even to like each other to have peace. We just need to respect each other's right to peace and sovereignty within their own country. Egypt and Jordan have peace with Israel. And although I am sure an overwhelming majority of Egyptians and Jordanians hate Israel, at least they can be assured that an Israeli fighter jet isn't going to bomb their home (and vice versa). Presently, the same thing is not true for Beirut.

I don't think that Lebanon and Israel can afford to predicate a peace treaty based on progress on the Israeli-Palestinian tract. Given the infighting among the Palestinians and their lack of a central governing authority, I don't see much progress on this front. Moreover, Israel isn't going to let 5 million Palestinians flood back into Israel and the West Bank/Gaza. Asking us to commit state suicide is just not going to happen. I agree that a solution for the Palestinian refugees must be found, but I don't think that it should prevent Israel and Lebanon from making peace (even though I recognize Lebanon's concerns about having 500,000 Palestinians cooped up in their country and causing all sorts of problems).

And lastly, I think that Lebanon and Israel should have peace because aside from benefiting both countries in terms of security and economy, I think that Israel, contrary to popular perception, is the only power in the Middle East that would recognize and respect Lebanese sovereignty (i.e., it wouldn't try to interfere in Lebanese affairs since it would no longer see Lebanon <Hizbullah> as being a threat to its national security).

AFAIK, there are still a lot of Palestinian living in Jordan, and that didn't preclude a peace agreement to be signed, put in place and to have been running inviolated.

A guess the more advanced democratic aspects of Israelis socieities already made them advance a lot. I might be wrong, but I'd say few credible Israeli politicians still support the idea that Israel should expand and annexate areas forming the Old Israel in Syria, Jordan and Egypt. They gave back the Sinai to the Egypt after capturing and holding it for more than a decade, but it was just unrealistic to expect long-term peace if Israel were to retain the Sinai forever.

Likewise, Lebanon must stop thinking of the Palestininans living there and put Lebanese interests first. Hizbollah has hijacked much of Lebanon political agenda according to Palestinian interests. Until they stop thinking that what is good for the Palestinian (terrorist groups entrenched in civil society advocating causes that don't affect directly the Lebanese) cause is good for Lebanon, prospects of peace are slim.

dear MIBO ,
1. i think that we ( arabs and isrealis ) should ask the question , " how to achieve peace ?" ..... and not "do we want to have peace ? "

2. i believe taht the heart of the problem is still the palestinian issue.
a. for the lebanese and the isreali who would say ... " but lebanon should act as a soverign state and that has nothing to do with lebanon ... and it is a separate problem , and lebanon should do what is for its best ,etc ... i would say that this doesnot interfere with the whole idea of soverignty. we have a common history with the palstinian ( as well as the eastern jews ) and the very universal values that we support as human beings cant not neglect the palstinian issue.
b. i am not going to explain again what is the palstinian issue here ...
c. now everybody today has accepted the two-state solution as a final solution.i think for starters it is acceptable ( but we should really have TWO states ).however what i wish for is a one state solution or to be realistic a one state-strategy at least . in the sense that these two states should depend on it each to survive ( econmical-symbiosis at the beganing atleast) and we should set a plan for an economical/finanicial union between these two states . hopefully with such economic and social integration we will be able to have a one state solution ( can u imagine it , espasially IMBO ).

2. as for lebanon i think a premature peace treaty right now wouldnot hold for a long time and even if it did its stabilty will be a security based one which will turn it to a mere cease-fire imo.
that is why i think that as soon as the palastinain have manage to sign a peace treaty ( hopefully with at least a one state strategy ) lebanon and all the other countries (simulantenously) will be able to sign a peace treaty.using the same strategy again ( another union for the arab or even middle eastern states merge with the isreali-palastinain one ).


now that was my very short theoretical answer for how to achieve peace.

it may be a dream ... but it a dream worth working for .

peace
one love

guys let us try to be human beings pls ....
stop dehumanizing others ( the palastinian ) .
u r not helping in any way

Nice post, however, the one state solution would never happen. I would never accept it.

Moreover, two states solution is nice in my opinion, but the whole EU-like union should wait decades after the establishment of a Palestinian state.

If Palestinian want their state I support that. But those ideas of "we want a State but also a special economic relation with Israel in which we MUST be allowed to work in Israel" isn't appealing to me.
If you want a state, you have to want it with all the consequences of economic, political independence, and not when it's convenient to ask for work to the richer neighbor.

Is there any information regarding what Palestinian Lebanese want? Stay in Lebanon, move to a future Palestinian State.....?
What is the situation of the Sheeba farms? I don't hear about them since ages....

Peace would be nice, but as others say, i don't expect it soon. Israel has much too much interests to keep going on with their warfare. Untill the palestinian case isn't solved peace will be very heard, because their ethnical cleansing of Palestine started a lot of problems and caused a lot of palestinians to flee into the region which means that their fate and that of the countries they nowadays live in is connected to that of Palestine, which makes the whole more complicated.

First israel should be disarmed, they should be a Palestinian state, Jowlan should go back to Syria and Palestinians living in israel should get the same rights and ability to vote on whatever party they want (a lot of arab parties are forbidden in israel). They should also recognize their history from the beginning of 1947 in which the murdering began and help the victims and let the ones that have been pulled out be returned. Only then real peace can be accomplished.

Likewise, Lebanon must stop thinking of the Palestininans living there and put Lebanese interests first. Hizbollah has hijacked much of Lebanon political agenda according to Palestinian interests. Until they stop thinking that what is good for the Palestinian (terrorist groups entrenched in civil society advocating causes that don't affect directly the Lebanese) cause is good for Lebanon, prospects of peace are slim.

Totally agree, Lebanon is a small nation which should focus on it's stability and well-being. I am not saying that the quest for social justice regarding Palestinians are bad - they are legitimate (I'm trying to be very neutral here, I'm Israeli), but Lebanon has neither the resources nor the population to play a significant role.

My parents went to Lebanon is the 70s and 80s, and also after the Lebanese Civil War and they were deeply saddened. With tourism, financing, etc... Lebanon was the pearl of the Arab World and suddenly it all fell apart.
A responsible Lebanese government has to focus on its people and not the Palestinian Independence and Syria, and a peace treaty with Israel can very extremely positive for Lebanon.
Lebanon is still meant to the Middle East's Switzerland and peace with Israel would help achieve that.

and I am anti extremistic nazilike christians that support LF and the phalangist with their hitlerlike history :) I rather see future, socialist party (jumblat), fpm and hizbollah than them.

Peace would be nice, but as others say, i don't expect it soon. Israel has much too much interests to keep going on with their warfare. Untill the palestinian case isn't solved peace will be very heard, because their ethnical cleansing of Palestine started a lot of problems and caused a lot of palestinians to flee into the region which means that their fate and that of the countries they nowadays live in is connected to that of Palestine, which makes the whole more complicated.

First israel should be disarmed, they should be a Palestinian state, Jowlan should go back to Syria and Palestinians living in israel should get the same rights and ability to vote on whatever party they want (a lot of arab parties are forbidden in israel). They should also recognize their history from the beginning of 1947 in which the murdering began and help the victims and let the ones that have been pulled out be returned. Only then real peace can be accomplished.

There are many Arab-Israeli parties, and they can advocate for anything they want - Israel is a democracy, so that point I don't really understand.

And to compensate the refugees OK. However, I'm tlaking about Lebanon, not the Palestinians. Why should Lebanese people care about the GOlan Heights?
And the sons and grandsons of Palestinian refugees shouldn't they have the right to become Lebanese? What is the problem with that?

There are many Arab-Israeli parties, and they can advocate for anything they want - Israel is a democracy, so that point I don't really understand.

And to compensate the refugees OK. However, I'm tlaking about Lebanon, not the Palestinians. Why should Lebanese people care about the GOlan Heights?
And the sons and grandsons of Palestinian refugees shouldn't they have the right to become Lebanese? What is the problem with that?

Yes, i think they should become lebanese. Also most palestinians living over there also consider themselves for a part lebanese and have become more lebanese than most people think. See fady andraos. I also think that most refugees see their future in lebanon.

And well, why should people care: because we should! We are human beings. We could also have Kosovo being let mass murdered, but we acted! And so we should with Palestine and should have done in 2006 in Lebanon! (btw I'm from Holland and not lebanese at all) We can't look away from all the terrible things that are happening during 63 years without doing anything! This region will never be 100% stable untill someone dares to act against israel. (Obama still just has words but does nothing).

Than you're not well informed, a lot of political parties are forbidden in israel ;) anti-israel parties are forbidden as well as parties that are very critical and fight for the palestinian case.

And how can there be peace if they still want to destroy the only party being capable of defending Lebanon if the Lebanese government and army is still quite week?

Than you're not well informed, a lot of political parties are forbidden in israel ;) anti-israel parties are forbidden as well as parties that are very critical and fight for the palestinian case.

And how can there be peace if they still want to destroy the only party being capable of defending Lebanon if the Lebanese government and army is still quite week?

That is a lie, an Arab-Israeli party in the Knesset: Balad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balad_%28political_party%29
Advocating for the return of all Palestinian refugees, welcoming the increasing influence of Iran in the Palestinian Territories.
Please inform you better next time.

And OK, you care about the people. But whatever the Lebanese government does it cannot influence what happens in the West Bank or Gaza. But the Lebanese government can work towards a more stable future with its southern neighbor which would be good for all the inhabitants of Lebanon.

And nice post, really I like to hear opinion, but I would like to heasr about what Lebanese citizens think about the legal situation of Palestinians in Lebanon.

I know some palestinian refugees in the netherlands, lots of them living in my town. Most of them from near Nablus. And i also know a few from lebanon, and they mostly see lebanon as their future for their family and not palestine.

I know that one, but please see the list of the last elections with parties that have been forbidden ;)

Ofcourse, peace would be very good. But see 1973, thanks to that war there was some kind of power stability, now israel saw they couldn't clame a decisive victory so they had to negotiate. Palestine and Syria never had this because they never got such a military balance with israel and israel can do wathever they want because they are too strong, and the west does nothing and doesn't intervene, first of all the west should intervene, but this isn't realistic.

Relations between Turkey and Syria have intensified a lot (Despite the fact that antakya and mardin were stolen from Syria in 1938 by the french and given to turkey in return for support, which they never got, in WW2 and despite there are living a lot of suryoyo, kurds and armenians in syria, and their relations and history with turkey is known) maybe this is a solution, a war like in 1973, in which both battle lines get stuck and no one can prevail, so israel really has to negotiate because they see that the military option isn't there anymore. Hezbollah already did something like it in 2006, in which they proved to be much more effective in assymetric warfare than anyone had dreamed and in which they could even stop and drive back invading forces in some vallies.

Because right now there is no need at all for israel to negotiate, for 63 years they could do and bomb whatever they want without anyone stopping them, so why would they start talking now if they can get what they want in a military way?

I know some palestinian refugees in the netherlands, lots of them living in my town. Most of them from near Nablus. And i also know a few from lebanon, and they mostly see lebanon as their future for their family and not palestine.

I know that one, but please see the list of the last elections with parties that have been forbidden ;)

Ofcourse, peace would be very good. But see 1973, thanks to that war there was some kind of power stability, now israel saw they couldn't clame a decisive victory so they had to negotiate. Palestine and Syria never had this because they never got such a military balance with israel and israel can do wathever they want because they are too strong, and the west does nothing and doesn't intervene, first of all the west should intervene, but this isn't realistic.

Relations between Turkey and Syria have intensified a lot (Despite the fact that antakya and mardin were stolen from Syria in 1938 by the french and given to turkey in return for support, which they never got, in WW2 and despite there are living a lot of suryoyo, kurds and armenians in syria, and their relations and history with turkey is known) maybe this is a solution, a war like in 1973, in which both battle lines get stuck and no one can prevail, so israel really has to negotiate because they see that the military option isn't there anymore. Hezbollah already did something like it in 2006, in which they proved to be much more effective in assymetric warfare than anyone had dreamed and in which they could even stop and drive back invading forces in some vallies.

Because right now there is no need at all for israel to negotiate, for 63 years they could do and bomb whatever they want without anyone stopping them, so why would they start talking now if they can get what they want in a military other way?

Mmmmm also governments such as the Spanish are always forbidding parties connected to terrorism to participate in the elections. In Israel, if I remember right it was because those parties had leaders who went ot Syria - acountry technically at war with Israel in order to meet Hizbollah. So what do you want the Supreme Court to do? Law has to be respected.
And for people wanting to visit "countries at war" with a non-israeli passport you can always ask for permission from the State. I don't think that is that bad, it is very reasonable indeed.

Regarding war and so on. To disarm Israel won't happen, coz if you disarm Israel let's see how long we would all last. Not much, I assure you.
But again I am talking about Lebanon-Israel, not the Palestinians.

Mmmmm also governments such as the Spanish are always forbidding parties connected to terrorism to participate in the elections. In Israel, if I remember right it was because those parties had leaders who went ot Syria - acountry technically at war with Israel in order to meet Hizbollah. So what do you want the Supreme Court to do? Law has to be respected.
And for people wanting to visit "countries at war" with a non-israeli passport you can always ask for permission from the State. I don't think that is that bad, it is very reasonable indeed.

Regarding war and so on. To disarm Israel won't happen, coz if you disarm Israel let's see how long we would all last. Not much, I assure you.
But again I am talking about Lebanon-Israel, not the Palestinians.

don't let me laught :lol: Israel and respecting laws :lol: If they would start doing that and respecting international laws and resolutions a lot of problems would be solved.

I visited Lebanon and Syria twice, beautiful countries and culturally not as different as most people think. Hopefully I will also visit Israel/Palestina in the future. I speak sham arabic quite well and now started learning Hebrew. Last time saw Heart of Jenin, very good movie and shows a lot of hidden problems that arent a lot over here in the media.

"how long we would last", who do you mean with "we"? You are an israeli? Or what is your origin? (btw, all israelians aren't originally israeli, it's something artificial, they are original american, german, russian, berber, or something like it, read the book of Shlomo Sands).

there is no such entity as "Lebanon" (secular /Christian), there is an Iranian Hizbullastan ,
Hizbullastan agenda is based on Islamic fanaticism and the main goal is to free Jerusalem , by the use of war and terror.

What did you contribute?

millions of $$$$ in ur economy & in rebuilding south lebanon after 2006 war, while ur gov. never lift a finger to help. u ungrateful bastards!

there is no such entity as "Lebanon" (secular /Christian), there is an Iranian Hizbullastan ,
Hizbullastan agenda is based on Islamic fanaticism and the main goal is to free Jerusalem , by the use of war and terror.


dude !!! chill
seriously u belong to people who think with their assholes und shit through their mouth

and I am anti extremistic nazilike christians that support LF and the phalangist with their hitlerlike history :) I rather see future, socialist party (jumblat), fpm and hizbollah than them.

obviously you are not familiar with our history, there is nothing nazilike about the phalangists. Maybe you are refering to the phalange party when it was founded in the 1930's. Even than the phalangists believed in democracy and never adopted a totalatarian system. As for their role during the civil war, their crimes were the posession of weapons outside of the state, and I am sure some atrocities just like the rest of the crimes committed by other Lebanese parties at the time. This isn't about who is better, but about the present and the future of our nation. The phalangists have contributed immensely to the prosperity of Lebanon.

Go back to where you came from.

millions of $$$$ in ur economy & in rebuilding south lebanon after 2006 war, while ur gov. never lift a finger to help. u ungrateful bastards!


Dude don't you have a Bahraini forum to go too. As we say in Lebanon
3'iff 3'an Tizna.

there is no such entity as "Lebanon" (secular /Christian), there is an Iranian Hizbullastan ,
Hizbullastan agenda is based on Islamic fanaticism and the main goal is to free Jerusalem , by the use of war and terror.

I am atheist and supporting every kind of (armed) resistance against opression :) damn all those zionist coming over here. ma ata rotse? I support them if they want to shoot every israeli away from their territory if invading it like in 2006.

The world would have been much better without Israel and countries would have got much more opportunities in this region to develop without them. The creation of Israel was one big mistake and a fairytale. There is something like lebanon, even though it is diverse. Just like there is Syrie even though it is diverse. And also a lot of non -shi3i people are supporting il-muqawamé.

@melkart: see their youth groups during the civil war, they were much like modeled on the Hitlerjugend and also some leaders had strong fascist sympathies. Whatever you want to make of them, they denie a certain part of their history (only recognize the phoenician part, while they should accept that all of the history belongs to them and people everywhere are a mix from differen peoples during ages) instead of embracing the whole package. But yes, happily enough they don't have weapons now anymore. But Hezbollah can only lay down its weapons if there is a strong lebanese army capable of defending and fighting in the south like Hezbollah, and there isn't, so untill that time we need thtem.

Nice post, however, the one state solution would never happen. I would never accept it.

Moreover, two states solution is nice in my opinion, but the whole EU-like union should wait decades after the establishment of a Palestinian state.

If Palestinian want their state I support that. But those ideas of "we want a State but also a special economic relation with Israel in which we MUST be allowed to work in Israel" isn't appealing to me.
If you want a state, you have to want it with all the consequences of economic, political independence, and not when it's convenient to ask for work to the richer neighbor.

Is there any information regarding what Palestinian Lebanese want? Stay in Lebanon, move to a future Palestinian State.....?
What is the situation of the Sheeba farms? I don't hear about them since ages....

u didnot get me mate , i wasnot begging for jobs . i was talking about cooperation and it is more so that isreal can integrate itself in the middle east ( through its palastinian gate ).

one more thing , it is not a good thing that u support a palastinian state . the palastinian accepting and co-existing with isreal is on the other hand a very noble behaviour.

about the palastinian in lebanon .all the influential parties in the palstianian societies in lebanon consider themselves as a part of the political movements in the palstinain homeland ( occupied homeland ) . so basically they want to return back home to their villages and towns and cities .... some of them ( there is noc statistic for that ) for sure would like to saty hier in lebanon ( and i believe they should be helped to do so aswell if they want)

mibo , u as an isreali should work hard to try to integrate ( but with keeping ur own identity offcourse ) yourself in the middleeast u cant stay as an island right.... basically te isrealis ( like the other middle eastern citzens ) are living the illusion of superiority ... made geography and history are facts u live in an area which is dominatetd by arabs and not europeans or americans .... we are your neighbors ... demgraphically speeking isreali will be "crushed" ( sorry for the hard metaphor , but like hebrew arabic is a metaphorical language ).

like you cant keep doing what you have been doing in the last 60 years ...because it won't last for ever the kingdom of jerusalam(during the crusades) stayed for a hundred year and than it disappeared.

as for the shebaa farm i think isreal should give back ... i mean it is occupied land .

as for the golaan heights , they should be return ... and dont underestimated the strategical value of this small peace of land.

now the arab states have declared in 2002 their arab peace initiative , and i quote
The Arab League members unanimously endorsed the peace initiative on March 27.[12] It consists of a comprehensive proposal to end the entire Arab-Israeli conflict.[2] It provides in a relevant part:
“ (a) Complete withdrawal from the occupied Arab territories, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the 4 June 1967 line and the territories still occupied in southern Lebanon; (b) Attain a just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees to be agreed upon in accordance with the UN General Assembly Resolution No 194. (c) Accept the establishment of an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since 4 June 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with East Jerusalem as its capital. In return the Arab states will do the following: (a) Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict over, sign a peace agreement with Israel, and achieve peace for all states in the region; (b) Establish normal relations with Israel within the framework of this comprehensive peace. "

which lead me to ask
do isrealis want peace ... because the last i checked one of the isreali cabinet said that the 4 june 1967 line is not acceptable anymore .

as for hizbullah .. it is a lebanese party just liek "beituna isreal " or one of the many right wing extrimist parties that u have in ur political spectrum. and it may be considered just as dangerours to the diverse nature of lebanon as the right wing partiy in isreal are for the diversity of isreal.

one more thing to all the isrealis that are folling this thread .. dont u feel ashamed for occuping other people land ?

No,most don't otherwise they wouldn't vote like that and create this Disneyland artificial country. They even reinvented a dead language and aren't able to say the 3ayen! (3ivriet) or the 7 (khanut instead of 7anut, like in moroccan arabic). It's like if french would have died out and suddenly dutch people would start talking french ,then you would get a very strange and laughable variant of French :lol: Also see Heart of Jenin, some live without the reality and think that you will be killed once entering arab territory, while it's just the same like other countries with friendly people.

@jb_nl

Peace is for Israel and Lebanon only. We don't need the interference of Dutch ignoramuses.

"we" = israel i suppose ;) you guys don't like people fighting for the rights of others and out of humanist interests wanting to defend them. Israel never likes critic and puts it aside.

A modern country listens carefully to critic and tries to do something with it and adjust it. With israel it is the other way around.

The problem is that "we", the west, act much to slow or don't act at all! :( The only time we acted correctly was with Kosovo. But with israel we never dare to act to prevent further murdering and ethnical cleansing :(

obviously you are not familiar with our history, there is nothing nazilike about the phalangists. Maybe you are refering to the phalange party when it was founded in the 1930's. Even than the phalangists believed in democracy and never adopted a totalatarian system. As for their role during the civil war, their crimes were the posession of weapons outside of the state, and I am sure some atrocities just like the rest of the crimes committed by other Lebanese parties at the time. This isn't about who is better, but about the present and the future of our nation. The phalangists have contributed immensely to the prosperity of Lebanon.

That dutch guy is seriously misinformed, if not delusional. With all due respect to all Lebanese, I am not sure that Lebanon would have been any different from Syria or Palestine had it not had a Christian majority. That is to say, I don't think that Lebanon would have been as open-minded and tolerant as it is (or at least known to be). Even if some of these Christian factions may have had fascist tendencies (I don't know), there's no denying that Lebanon has a unique position in the Middle East in that it has given sanctuary to people from all over the world, including to Jews escaping persecution in Europe. This would have never happened in any other MENA country. I am not going to start pointing fingers at any Lebanese faction, since I would be out of place to do so, but I have serious problems with anyone who compares the Phalangists to Nazis (even in spite of some of the crimes/massacres that they may have committed). There is nothing similar between the Phalangists and the Nazis.

@jb nl

I am not in this debate to defend Israel; merely to lend my thoughts on the original topic, peace between Lebanon and Israel.

millions of $$$$ in ur economy & in rebuilding south lebanon after 2006 war, while ur gov. never lift a finger to help. u ungrateful bastards!

reminds me of that Iranian forumer who was unsatisfied with our "unthankful" behavior.
Funny how everyone thinks that we owe him the air we breathe while he is the one living in deep shit.

That dutch guy is seriously misinformed, if not delusional. With all due respect to all Lebanese, I am not sure that Lebanon would have been any different from Syria or Palestine had it not had a Christian majority. That is to say, I don't think that Lebanon would have been as open-minded and tolerant as it is (or at least known to be). Even if some of these Christian factions may have had fascist tendencies (I don't know), there's no denying that Lebanon has a unique position in the Middle East in that it has given sanctuary to people from all over the world, including to Jews escaping persecution in Europe. This would have never happened in any other MENA country. I am not going to start pointing fingers at any Lebanese faction, since I would be out of place to do so, but I have serious problems with anyone who compares the Phalangists to Nazis (even in spite of some of the crimes/massacres that they may have committed). There is nothing similar between the Phalangists and the Nazis.

how can you even now anything about Lebanon if you aren't able to enter it because you have a israeli pasport ;) I know more than you, speak the language, have been there twice.

And you also underestimate the cultural similarities between Syria and Lebanon. Also Syria, even though they have a dictator, is religiously seen quite liberal, having quite a lot of fights with conservative sa3oudia and the quite secular 3alawi's have most power, they want a secular state, and most other minorities like the christians but also some very liberal sunni's and kurds i spoke over there are supporting it. You'd also be surprised if you would have seen all the gays openly swimming in a swimmingpool in damascus and all the different kind of people working together. But well you can't, because your shitty state that should never have exist is officially at war with syria so you aren't able to enter it. You would be surprised by the very modern and fancy cafés and night clubs in damascus and even eastern 7ommos!

The jewish immigrants should have integrated themselves into the palestinian state, work together etc. instead of starting an ethnic cleansing in 1947, murdering people, driving people out of their own country etc. If something like that would happen in the Netherlands, with immigrants suddenly founding their own state within The Netherlands, pushing us to only 2 provinces and Belgium and Germany, we would also certainly fight!

Also see the words of "Muhammad il-Habash" (search for "de weg naar mekka, habash") the state mufti of Syria, he's also surprisingly liberal with his opinions.

@jb nl

I am not in this debate to defend Israel; merely to lend my thoughts on the original topic, peace between Lebanon and Israel. Arabs, but not only) criticize Israel very much.

peace would be very nice, a dream, I even spoke some syrians who began talking about it by themselves, who want peace, negotiations were quite close, but every time the israeli's change their mind or another goverment comes and everything has to start from the beginning... without israel changing or being forced to change peace is impossible.

Yes I criticize Israel, and with a reason!

how can you even now anything about Lebanon if you aren't able to enter it because you have a israeli pasport ;) I know more than you, speak the language, have been there twice.

Thanks to Google, the internet, and SSC, I can read about Lebanon. But who's to say I haven't been to Lebanon? Most Israelis could, in theory, visit. I am sure some even enter with Dutch passports.

As for Syria, I haven't the slightest desire to visit the place. And frankly, I don't believe anything you say about Syria, since it is a police state. But I do know people who have visited (non-Israeli, obviously) and they all hated the country.

Thanks to Google, the internet, and SSC, I can read about Lebanon. But who's to say I haven't been to Lebanon? Most Israelis could, in theory, visit. I am sure some even enter with Dutch passports.

As for Syria, I haven't the slightest desire to visit the place. And frankly, I don't believe anything you say about Syria, since it is a police state. But I do know people who have visited (non-Israeli, obviously) and they all hated the country.

I can read a lot on the internet about China, but I'd rather prefer to let a china expert who has been there speak about them, instead of myself.

it's clear you're a person filled with hate, it's a wonderfull country and most people i speak (non-arabs) love it and are surprised by it. By its friendly helpfull people, nice beautiful places and calmness. They call it "the axe of hospitality" (as a parody on the USA term "axes of evil"). Lebanon and Syria have a lot of similarities. Jordan differs much more in my opinion. I prefer Syria and Lebanon, they have a very relaxed mediteranian amthosphere. It's clear that you are in contact with the wrong people or only with very conservative right wing people.

Btw, just like I support the resistance of hezbollah I also like it that Syria has gone away out of lebanon since 2005.

No,most don't otherwise they wouldn't vote like that and create this Disneyland artificial country. They even reinvented a dead language and aren't able to say the 3ayen! (3ivriet) or the 7 (khanut instead of 7anut, like in moroccan arabic). It's like if french would have died out and suddenly dutch people would start talking french ,then you would get a very strange and laughable variant of French :lol: Also see Heart of Jenin, some live without the reality and think that you will be killed once entering arab territory, while it's just the same like other countries with friendly people.

so much rubbish and ignorance

bow down to earth in front of the oldest civilization on planet earth !

the mother and model of the false Christian and Islamic civilizations !

the oldest language in use ,the sister language of Phoenicia (why it suppose to sound like Arabic?) which makes us the true successors of them !


now go and google some things

Well I do not speak Arabic but I have been to both Lebanon and Syria - thanks to my European passport and always asking permission to the Israeli government -, I think I know Lebanon pretty well. That is why I desire peace with Lebanon.

One thing first, I don't think Israeli passport are so shitty - we can go to many countries without visas.

@jb_nl
Of course I am for cooperation and for Israel it would be a win-win situation to invest in the future Palestinian State on the other side of the border. However, one thing is cooperation and an economic zone and another thing is a binational state.

Even if you agree with Israel's Independence, it is a reality nowaday. So accept it.

Finally, if I am talking about peace with Lebanon of course I do believe in an integration within other Middle Eastern countries - economic, political ties and alliances.

The Golan Heights is a very complicated subject because as you mentioned, it is a highly strategic area. However, as said, I am talking about Lebanon, not Syria. As far as I know, Lebanon is an independent nation.

so much rubbish and ignorance

bow down to earth in front of the oldest civilization on planet earth !

the mother and model of the false Christian and Islamic civilizations !

the oldest language in use ,the sister language of Phoenicia (why it suppose to sound like Arabic?) which makes us the true successors of them !


now go and google some things

If he wants to call us a Disneyland country, who cares?
If he doesn't know that Hebrew was spoken in rabbinical circles, well, that is his ignorance. OK, the Rabbis did not say "I am going to shit" and thus the language had to be modernize. Not in a very different way from Modern Standard Arabic, by the way.

And well, I guess Jews piss many people off. After all, Jews would exist without Christian and Muslims but not the other way around. :lol:

That dutch guy is seriously misinformed, if not delusional. With all due respect to all Lebanese, I am not sure that Lebanon would have been any different from Syria or Palestine had it not had a Christian majority. That is to say, I don't think that Lebanon would have been as open-minded and tolerant as it is (or at least known to be). Even if some of these Christian factions may have had fascist tendencies (I don't know), there's no denying that Lebanon has a unique position in the Middle East in that it has given sanctuary to people from all over the world, including to Jews escaping persecution in Europe. This would have never happened in any other MENA country. I am not going to start pointing fingers at any Lebanese faction, since I would be out of place to do so, but I have serious problems with anyone who compares the Phalangists to Nazis (even in spite of some of the crimes/massacres that they may have committed). There is nothing similar between the Phalangists and the Nazis.

I am well aware, unfortunatly at the momment I am at work and can not rebuttle his statements. I am an agnostic myself, I can care less about christian that or muslim that, but he basicly criticized all the christians in Lebanon and defended Hisballah. As if Hisballah did not commit any crimes during the war and after, like the bombing of the israeli embassy in Buenes Aires or the hijacking of westerners in the 80's just to name a few, but oh wait I guess Israelis and americans don't count as human beings according to him.

he comes from a country without a language of its own (a kind of Arabic with french words ) and without culture nor religion specific to it, and not common national ethnic history far from the 1920's , when the french created "big Lebanon" while all can see it doesn't work till today.

@hebrewtextzionist:

religion is something different than culture, religion is just a part of a culture, not a culture on it's own ;) Just like there is the Dutch culture (even though it depends from city to city) which is influenced by different religious movements.

Second, why is there a need for a state with just one religion? I'm atheist and doesn't have the need at all to found an "atheist state" somewhere in for example italy and kick out all the others. Also some jews I know over here just feel dutch and think it's redicilous to suddenly make a religious state while themselves being dutch for ages (again, read Shlomo Sands, who shows that the Palestinians are much more probably to have israelite ancesters than the nowadays israeli's who are mostly converted europeans, berbers etc.), they form a group called: Een ander joods geluid. (another jewish sound) in which they want that the netherlands act more critically against israel and want to start a discussion.

Well I do not speak Arabic but I have been to both Lebanon and Syria - thanks to my European passport and always asking permission to the Israeli government -, I think I know Lebanon pretty well. That is why I desire peace with Lebanon.

One thing first, I don't think Israeli passport are so shitty - we can go to many countries without visas.

@jb_nl
Of course I am for cooperation and for Israel it would be a win-win situation to invest in the future Palestinian State on the other side of the border. However, one thing is cooperation and an economic zone and another thing is a binational state.

Even if you agree with Israel's Independence, it is a reality nowaday. So accept it.

Finally, if I am talking about peace with Lebanon of course I do believe in an integration within other Middle Eastern countries - economic, political ties and alliances.

The Golan Heights is a very complicated subject because as you mentioned, it is a highly strategic area. However, as said, I am talking about Lebanon, not Syria. As far as I know, Lebanon is an independent nation.

I am able to accept them, even though we never should have done that from the beginning, but now it's too late. But then on the other hand they have to become acceptable, and at the moment, they are far from that. I would also like it to see them integrate, something the refused from the beginning.

Well, it's not that complicated, it's occupied territory, just give it back :lol: it's that simple. Give back what has been stolen.

third of all, I am aware of the rabbical tradition. And I know that they still used it, but it was 100% dead as a mother tongue, just like Latin ;) (being spoken in some churches and in the vatican, but 100% dead as a mother thongue) And you know just like me that it's a fact that hebrew isn't pronounced at it once probably was. Some jews, mostly yemenites, can say the 3ayen in hebrew, and me too, but most can't, because those europians who learned talking it weren't used to those strange non indo-european sounds. So they indo-europianized hebrew.

@hebrewtextzionist:

I am from a country with a long history, independance war against the spanish etc. :lol: with one of the oldest flags on the world. My mother tongue is Dutch, to be more specific, the Rotterdam variant of it. And if you don't believe me: probeer maar eens te begrijpen wat ik nu zeg :P Dan zie je dat ik geen libanees ben, maar alleen veel van Libanon hou en er graag kom.

I am well aware, unfortunatly at the momment I am at work and can not rebuttle his statements. I am an agnostic myself, I can care less about christian that or muslim that, but he basicly criticized all the christians in Lebanon and defended Hisballah. As if Hisballah did not commit any crimes during the war and after, like the bombing of the israeli embassy in Buenes Aires or the hijacking of westerners in the 80's just to name a few, but oh wait I guess Israelis and americans don't count as human beings according to him.

Not true, I also don't like the religious ideology of 7izbollah, but i do support their resistance war. And secondly, I don't criticize the FPM followers, also christians, or the many christians in Syria supporting il-muqawamé. I just don't like these two parties because of their history and because they are very right wing while I am leftist.

No? Israeli's (which originally are from somewhere else as I said before) can be very kind and clever. See Ilan Pappe and Shlomo Sands and some others. I also had some very nice kind american friends when I lived in Cairo this year :) So mind your words. I just don't like hardcore right wing americans and israeli's who deny their own violent acts and blindly support violance against others.

I don't, i condemn some things my own government does in Afghanistan and how they opressed indonesia or how they still refuse to do something to help the Palestinians.

Judaism is an ethnic term as religiouse one , not like the case of other religions.
one can be atheist and Jewish by nationality.

Shlomo Sands and other false theories are just theories while there are other opinions and scientific researches who shows otherwise.

no muslim or Arab would have survive under the Christian Crusader kingdom, during the kingdom of Jerusalem 1099-1291 AD.
so Islam and Arab arrived (back) to Palestine later with the new Islamic Conquests.

How old are you?

I am sorry, but it is extremely impolite to talk to someone in a language he does not speak and other forumers cannot understand.

Hebrew Language
Yes, Yemenites speak probably more of the traditional Hebrew, and there were traditionally two variants: european and middle eastern. Now Hebrew is a living language, and I'm proud of it. We have a richer vocabulary than Dutch which is being colonized by English - actually Hebrew is more vigorous than Dutch. Just look at Amsterdam: more signs in English than in Dutch.
Anyway, what's the point of this? Should I say that Dutch is a bastard language from German? That has nothing to do with the topic.

ISRAEL
If you don't understand the concept of what is to be a Jew, don't talk about it. In many cases it has nothing to do with religion - if not most.

Now instead of talking to the past, do you have something else to apport?
I may not agree with certain aspects in Lebanon, but in order to reach peace, you cannot just go and start insulting people about unrelated topics. Whatever you may think try to make consensus, that is how peace is reached

he comes from a country without a language of its own (a kind of Arabic with french words ) and without culture nor religion specific to it, and not common national ethnic history far from the 1920's , when the french created "big Lebanon" while all can see it doesn't work till today.

Every nation is a figment of ones imagination!

@hebrewtextzionist:

Not true, I also don't like the religious ideology of 7izbollah, but i do support their resistance war. And secondly, I don't criticize the FPM followers, also christians, or the many christians in Syria supporting il-muqawamé. I just don't like these two parties because of their history and because they are very right wing while I am leftist.

No? Israeli's (which originally are from somewhere else as I said before) can be very kind and clever. See Ilan Pappe and Shlomo Sands and some others. I also had some very nice kind american friends when I lived in Cairo this year :) So mind your words. I just don't like hardcore right wing americans and israeli's who deny their own violent acts and blindly support violance against others.

I don't, i condemn some things my own government does in Afghanistan and how they opressed indonesia or how they still refuse to do something to help the Palestinians.

or how they opressed the jews during the holocaust I know what you mean, but you can't expect the Netherlands with it's limited resources to save the Palestinians. I mean it isn't in the Netherland's interest to do so. Also what happened during the civil war was a game of survival the christians had to arm themselves to protect themselves from slaughter.
besides indoctrinating their youth (The Phalangists that is) how are they any different from other parties in Lebanon. Look at Hisballah they resemble the Nazi Regime today more than anyone else. Resistance you say? Resistance against what? what are they resisting? and why?

Every nation is a figment of ones imagination!


nice
but we have a 4000 years self figment of a nation, based on strict characters,

which others throughout history "stole" from us .

[...]
And well, I guess Jews piss many people off. After all, Jews would exist without Christian and Muslims but not the other way around. :lol:Very clever of you. If you define all Jews as the chosen nation, your statement is true, but it means nothing less then that God had the choice to not point any particular nation. What would you say if the chosen one would be Lebanese ppl - "the nation of Israel from the White Mountains"? :lol:

BTW, Hebretext, I don't think Arabs are so much impressed about how old Hebrew language is. After all they didn't give a f*** about Egyptian. Did they? ;)
Also some scientists say Abraham was Aramaic merchant, so he had to speak some Ancient dialect of Aramaic (its modern dialect is still in use by over 2 mln ppl, so the language is living one and older than Hewbrew). All Canaanite languages (including Hebrew and Phoenician) emerged in 2nd millennium from Aramaic.

I just said something in "Nederlands" to proove I'm not Lebanese ;) if you are afraid of what i said " And if you don't believe me: probeer maar eens te begrijpen wat ik nu zeg :P Dan zie je dat ik geen libanees ben, maar alleen veel van Libanon hou en er graag kom. "

I said: Try to understand what I'm saying right now :P then you will see that I'm not lebanese, but only loving Lebanon a lot and like it to come over there.

I know what it means to be a jew, and as i said , there are a lot of jews who see it just as their religion and see themselves as dutch. But unfortunatly there are zionist who got influenced by the strange idea of having to form a separate state and have to kick out all others.

Most israelites over time just got another religion and changed from language and are palestinians nowadays. Just like the phoenicians mixed up with arabs and others and took over the Arabic language.

Languages come and go and change. Just like somewhere untill possibly 800 BC the Netherlands used to be more of a celtic speaking language than a germanic language.

yes Dutch has a lot of influences of other languages, just like every language, nothing strange. But still it's a language. Because of it's western germanic roots, like english and german, it's very similar to them. But also very distinctive. Just like linguistically seen Syrian arabic and Egyptian are both part of Arabic languages, but still very different. Btw, the arabic spoken languages don't come from MSA, see my explenation and proof for that in the language course topic. Official languages are always somehow constructed.

For example, when I type in official Dutch I type:
I will go to school tomorrow and after that I'll be at Kees' home
official:
Ik ga morgen naar school en daarna zal ik bij Kees thuis zijn.
But in the fact you will here, in the Rotterdam - Dutch variant (r = gh, so throath R, like the french, in Rotterdammish)
Ik gaat mogguh naar school en daarna zal ik baai Kees tuis zaain.
In Amsterdammish:
Ik gà morregu naa school en daarna sal ik bè Kees tuis sèn.

In the north east the language looks more like neather saxon languages in northen germany and in the south more like the language of flanders (with a soft G, like the german ch in ich).

Dutch languages evolved over time, adopted loan words. There is not such a thing as purely Dutch words. Even our word for wall "muur" is adopted from latin: murus.

But Hebrew was not spoken as a mother tongue for a very long period and then suddenly ben yehuda decided to speak it again. So there is no kind of natural evolution of that language.

Very clever of you. If you define all Jews as the chosen nation, your statement is true, but it means nothing less then that God had the choice to not point any particular nation. What would you say if the chosen one would be Lebanese ppl - "the nation of Israel from the White Mountains"? :lol:

BTW, Hebretext, I don't think Arabs are so much impressed about how old Hebrew language is. After all they didn't give a f*** about Egyptian. Did they? ;)
Also some scientists say Abraham was Aramaic merchant, so he had to speak some Ancient dialect of Aramaic (its modern dialect is still in use by over 2 mln ppl, so the language is living one and older than Hewbrew). All Canaanite languages (including Hebrew and Phoenician) emerged in 2nd millennium from Aramaic.

I was being sarcastic :D As we "invented" the concept of the one omnipotent God

Very clever of you. If you define all Jews as the chosen nation, your statement is true, but it means nothing less then that God had the choice to not point any particular nation. What would you say if the chosen one would be Lebanese ppl - "the nation of Israel from the White Mountains"? :lol:

BTW, Hebretext, I don't thing Arabs are so much impressed about how old Hebrew language is. After all they didn't give a f*** about Egyptian. Did they? ;)
Also some scientists say Abraham was Aramaic merchant, so he had to speak some Ancient dialect of Aramaic (its modern dialect is still in use by over 2 mln ppl, so the language is living one and older than Hewbrew). All Canaanite languages (including Hebrew and Phoenician) emerged in 2nd millennium from Aramaic.

also scripts have been found from arabic from the desert from at least 1100 BC, and is much older then we always expected, maybe even older, in unwritten form. Also for a long time it was first written in south-semitic script (now used by ethiopian still) because south semitic was widely spoken on the arabic peninsula at that time. Even muhammad probably could read it or spoke it because at his time it was still an important trading language and used for accountancy purposes. And if you read those things you will see that what we consider as "dialects" (but are languages linguistically seen) are much older than the high form of MSA (fos7a) which was also then just a poetic and high language, but not the mother tongue. Because also in these pre-islamic text you will never read something like "mu3allimoen" but always "mu3allimien" and you will even read things like "illy" (instead of allady) and "yishoef". Also see papyrical research that has been done in egypt.

or how they opressed the jews during the holocaust I know what you mean, but you can't expect the Netherlands with it's limited resources to save the Palestinians. I mean it isn't in the Netherland's interest to do so. Also what happened during the civil war was a game of survival the christians had to arm themselves to protect themselves from slaughter.
besides indoctrinating their youth (The Phalangists that is) how are they any different from other parties in Lebanon. Look at Hisballah they resemble the Nazi Regime today more than anyone else. Resistance you say? Resistance against what? what are they resisting? and why?

for those questions, read Norton: Hezbollah, a short history ;)

but well, they aren't terrorist, you can negotiate with them, they are also lebanese and have rights, and are the only effective defense in the country.

But yes i do hope the kata2ib party and LF are willing to coorporate with 7ezbollah and others, that would be in favor of the future of lebanon.

No, sadly enough we act like USA's dog with minister Verhagen, who is the biggest mass murder supporter in Europe :( yes, how sadly enough we couldn't save a lot of the jews in the netherlands and a lot of them died. But just as we had the right then to shoot german opressors, so have the palestinians to fight against their opressors. Btw, we were one of the first countries with freedom of religion, because of that there was a civil war in 1568 - 1648 in which the royal house choose to unite the provinces and a lot of refugees from the inquisition fled to the Netherlands, because here you weren't prosecuted if you were protestant, catholic or jew like somewhere else.

Protect themselves from slaughter? By shooting at a bus in april 1975?

nice
but we have a 4000 years self figment of a nation, based on strict characters,

which others throughout history "stole" from us .

so should all the Arab middle east be one nation? should Lebanon be part of something else. Whose to say what determines a nation?

so should all the Arab middle east be one nation? should Lebanon be part of something else. Whose to say what determines a nation?

I think the people, if they believe in the project of the "nation" with a distinct culture or whatever special they think they are.

Even the oldest nations were young once and people could have said "Hey, you make no sense, you were never an independent entity".
That is stupid.

If the citizens believe in the nation - unless a fatal tragedy occurs - they nation will survive, if they don't it will just disappear (peacefully or violently). You have examples like Yugoslavia for example.

so should all the Arab middle east be one nation? should Lebanon be part of something else. Whose to say what determines a nation?

they are an independent nation. And whether you want it or not you have to work toghether wit other nations. Just like The Netherlands are a nation but work together with other countries and the EU, nothing bad about it. That's why i look positively at the recovering relations between syria and lebanon and syria and Turkey, Turkey can be a gate to the west for Syria.

Also some scientists say Abraham was Aramaic merchant, so he had to speak some Ancient dialect of Aramaic (its modern dialect is still in use by over 2 mln ppl, so the language is living one and older than Hewbrew). All Canaanite languages (including Hebrew and Phoenician) emerged in 2nd millennium from Aramaic.

no
the oral Hebrew/Pheonician/Canaanite languages ,the northwest semitic lang. are older than Aramaic.

the written Alphabet developed in Canaan (with some hyrogliph background) and was in use by the same era by the Pheonician and Hebrew ~1500BC.

later it was adapted by Aramaic and by the Greeks (by Pheonician sea people). and from there to the rest of the world.

during the first diaspora around 500 BC the written Aramaic (based on Cannanite/Hebrew from the first place ) adapted by Hebrew along some words.

for those questions, read Norton: Hezbollah, a short history ;)

but well, they aren't terrorist, you can negotiate with them, they are also lebanese and have rights, and are the only effective defense in the country.

But yes i do hope the kata2ib party and LF are willing to coorporate with 7ezbollah and others, that would be in favor of the future of lebanon.

No, sadly enough we act like USA's dog with minister Verhagen, who is the biggest mass murder supporter in Europe :( yes, how sadly enough we couldn't save a lot of the jews in the netherlands and a lot of them died. But just as we had the right then to shoot german opressors, so have the palestinians to fight against their opressors. Btw, we were one of the first countries with freedom of religion, because of that there was a civil war in 1568 - 1648 in which the royal house choose to unite the provinces and a lot of refugees from the inquisition fled to the Netherlands, because here you weren't prosecuted if you were protestant, catholic or jew like somewhere else.

Protect themselves from slaughter? By shooting at a bus in april 1975?

Palestinian factions tried to assasinate the president of the republic, the christians responded by shooting a bus loaded with militants, not civilians. They claim otherwise. either way it was a tit for tat war christian vs muslim. you had sabra and chatila massacres by the christians and the damour massacres by the muslims. The ideological differences now are different. It's no longer muslim vs christian, It's more west vs. east.
why should the LF and the Phalangists cooperate with hisballah? we have our own army, if anything hisballah should surrender it's weapons to the state, thus reiforcing the role of the army. The only reason why the army is weak is due the fact that Hisb is a state within a state. The army is threatened by hisballah as we witnessed in the may 7th clashes, when the army stood by the sidelines allowing hisb to infiltrate west beirut.

As far as I am concerned Israel isn't taking any of our land. What little land they occupy is debatable whether it's lebanese or not. So I ask again what is Hisballah resisting? you haven't answered that question yet.

I think the people, if they believe in the project of the "nation" with a distinct culture or whatever special they think they are.

Even the oldest nations were young once and people could have said "Hey, you make no sense, you were never an independent entity".
That is stupid.

If the citizens believe in the nation - unless a fatal tragedy occurs - they nation will survive, if they don't it will just disappear (peacefully or violently). You have examples like Yugoslavia for example.

agreed

they are an independent nation. And whether you want it or not you have to work toghether wit other nations. Just like The Netherlands are a nation but work together with other countries and the EU, nothing bad about it. That's why i look positively at the recovering relations between syria and lebanon and syria and Turkey, Turkey can be a gate to the west for Syria.

true, but Syria needs to free our prisoners and demarcate our borders before we totally normalise our relationship with them.

millions of $$$$ in ur economy & in rebuilding south lebanon after 2006 war, while ur gov. never lift a finger to help. u ungrateful bastards!

from which hole are u from?
it seemed to me that you can write in english but uneducated...
we have different opinions, you should not lose your temperament...:ohno:
or in gulf, people are not used to freedom of speech....

first of all, thanks to lebanese diaspora that we have over 100 billions of dollars in the lebanese bank and economy...
second thanx for your Gov. to help soulth lebanon with 50 million...
and thanx to the south to give the arab some dignity....

calm down and don't lose your head:bash:

yes, more things need to be solved. About the political situation, yes happily enough the civil war is over and things changed, even jumblat and kata2ib/LF are in one coalition now.

I think you shouldn't choose for the East or the West, but for cooporation with both, you need both. And most of all you need to be Lebanon, not a dog of Syria or a dog of the USA.

And secondly also the distribution of wealth seems to play a huge role, some people feel being disadvanteged last years when the Future party through a capitalist system based on the anglo-saxon one created a lot of wealth, but mostly for a happy few. Some christians didn't profit from it (some of them supporting FPM because of that) and the south and a lot of shi3iyyien didn't profit from it. So how to distribute wealth (social health care etc) also plays a role. taxes etc.

I was being sarcastic :D As we "invented" the concept of the one omnipotent GodBut Christians invented how to keep their Greek/Roman polytheism after adopting Jewish monotheism and Muslims invented how to make it back monotheistic without rejecting any piece of that puzzle. You cannot beat it. :lol:
(BTW, we still don't know what was the real root for Akhenaten's or Zarathushtra's monotheism).

yes, more things need to be solved. About the political situation, yes happily enough the civil war is over and things changed, even jumblat and kata2ib/LF are in one coalition now.

I think you shouldn't choose for the East or the West, but for cooporation with both, you need both. And most of all you need to be Lebanon, not a dog of Syria or a dog of the USA.

And secondly also the distribution of wealth seems to play a huge role, some people feel being disadvanteged last years when the Future party through a capitalist system based on the anglo-saxon one created a lot of wealth, but mostly for a happy few. Some christians didn't profit from it (some of them supporting FPM because of that) and the south and a lot of shi3iyyien didn't profit from it. So how to distribute wealth (social health care etc) also plays a role. taxes etc.

right I agree with the above statement, but keep in mind that Hisballah does not allow the government or its organisations to operate in hisballah controlled areas. Hisballah wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Iran. They are dogs of the Iranian regime. As far as I am concerned the United States has helped Lebanon in more ways than you think, also they respect our sovereignity, that's more than I can say about the rest.

Palestinian factions tried to assasinate the president of the republic, the christians responded by shooting a bus loaded with militants, not civilians. They claim otherwise. either way it was a tit for tat war christian vs muslim. you had sabra and chatila massacres by the christians and the damour massacres by the muslims. The ideological differences now are different. It's no longer muslim vs christian, It's more west vs. east.
why should the LF and the Phalangists cooperate with hisballah? we have our own army, if anything hisballah should surrender it's weapons to the state, thus reiforcing the role of the army. The only reason why the army is weak is due the fact that Hisb is a state within a state. The army is threatened by hisballah as we witnessed in the may 7th clashes, when the army stood by the sidelines allowing hisb to infiltrate west beirut.

As far as I am concerned Israel isn't taking any of our land. What little land they occupy is debatable whether it's lebanese or not. So I ask again what is Hisballah resisting? you haven't answered that question yet.

exactly

Hizbullah is an Iranian division, supported/finance/armed/trained by Iran,
with an Iranian agenda like to free Jerusalem , and terrorise Israel (and other lebanese) using false claims.

for those questions, read Norton: Hezbollah, a short history ;)

but well, they aren't terrorist, you can negotiate with them, they are also lebanese and have rights, and are the only effective defense in the country.







Please stop insulting our Lebanese Armed Forces.

Please stop insulting our Lebanese Armed Forces.

tell me, what did they do in 2006 to defend Lebanon? See the enhanced helicopters they usedin 2007. See the officer that drank thee in 2006 with israelian officers...

Yes, they could be protective, but right now, at this moment? I wouldn't put my bet on them. They need more, better and more modern material. And should incorporate Hezbollah anti tank and aircraft units.

and at the same time you could claim that kataeb is coorporating with israel. But see more about the history of Hezbollah and how they developed, how researchers are talking about lebanonization of them. And how, yes they get a lot of support, also military, from Iran, but clearly have Lebanese interests and feel Lebanese.

The reason we have Hizbollah or Hamas or other resistence group is the occupation, when Israel accepts the peace offer from beirut summit then these groups will be dissolved immediately...

The boll is at the Israelis

tell me, what did they do in 2006 to defend Lebanon? See the enhanced helicopters they usedin 2007. See the officer that drank thee in 2006 with israelian officers...

Yes, they could be protective, but right now, at this moment? I wouldn't put my bet on them. They need more, better and more modern material. And should incorporate Hezbollah anti tank and aircraft units.


First of all, that was almost 4 years ago and MUCH has improved since then. Second, the LAF was not allowed to enter the south of the country because it was occupied by Hizballah, and most important, the very existance of an armed militia undermines the LAF.

millions of $$$$ in ur economy & in rebuilding south lebanon after 2006 war, while ur gov. never lift a finger to help. u ungrateful bastards!


You have received an infraction for this comment. Please do not troll here anymore or you will be brigged.

tell me, what did they do in 2006 to defend Lebanon? See the enhanced helicopters they usedin 2007. See the officer that drank thee in 2006 with israelian officers...



Nice- you come into a Lebanese forum and start insulting the country and some of its people. :ohno:

For the record, the only reason Israel even entered Lebanon was because of Hizbullah. So it's a bit imbecilic to call Hizbullah the 'resistance', when in fact it was largely responsible for bringing war to Lebanon in the first place. Therefore, it's incorrect to be placing blame on the underequipped LAF.

The reason we have Hizbollah or Hamas or other resistence group is the occupation, when Israel accepts the peace offer from beirut summit then these groups will be dissolved immediately...

The boll is at the Israelis

Pardon my ignorance but which occupation are you referring to? Israel completely withdrew from South Lebanon in 2000, if I recall correctly.

The only way to go out of this spiral is to declare Lebanon a neutral Land. because of the diversity in the lebanese sociaty is very difficult to keep one course.

with a strong economy can we build a strong army.

The reason we have Hizbollah or Hamas or other resistence group is the occupation, when Israel accepts the peace offer from beirut summit then these groups will be dissolved immediately...

The boll is at the Israelis

true. Untill they don't want peace and still oppress syrians in jowlan and palestinians we should be carefull and prepared for the moment they suddenly strike again and invade.

@Beiruti: 2007 is still 3 years ago, 2,5 in fact. And the 10 Mig's aren't operational yet as does the LAF not have advanced anti aircraft and anti-tank units and missiles (only old stile ones as said in another post before). And in fact, even if we have those 10 (wow!) mig's, what can we do? :lol: Against a much bigger force. Only guerilla-like warfare is affective then. I also hope the LAF will be able one day to defend Lebanon. This summer I was in Tormez near Tripoli, sunni area, supporting musta2bal party, and talked with a lot of people, some of them serving in the army, one of that family a luitenant who fought in 2007 and a brother of one of the relatives of this family died then in the army. I have a lot of respect for the LAF who tries to keep peace in the region. But even they, this family, supporting Future Party, said that "il-muqawamé" is the only way to defend against Israel, because they are the only effective ones against them, even though politically seen they don't support Hizbollah and even though some of them work in the LAF.

@chevre: until 2006 it was very hard still for LAF, also because of israel, to enter south lebanon. And still Israel often violates Lebanese territory and airspace. Secondly, Hezbollah didn't expect such a huge reaction (see some an interview with nasrallah stating that they maybe wouldn't have done it if they knew that the reaction would have been so huge) while israel was searching for an excuse for an invasion they had long been waiting for. Secondly Hezbollah at that time was the only one trying to help Ghaza (which was being bombed at the time) and get a captured israeli as a means of negotiation. This was nothing strange, accidents like these and shootings, violations from both sides happened during all of the period of 2000-2006. something described as "the game" (see Norton, Hezbollah).

Pardon my ignorance but which occupation are you referring to? Israel completely withdrew from South Lebanon in 2000, if I recall correctly.

the lebanese gov claims that shabaa farms still occupied and for that reason we
still have the resistance

the lebanese gov claims that shabaa farms still occupied and for that reason we
still have the resistance

If anyone is occupying Shebba, it's the Syrians who wont officially decare it to be Lebanese territory.

the lebanese gov claims that shabaa farms still occupied and for that reason we
still have the resistance

+ the violations of Lebanese ground / coastal / airspace territory by israeli military vehicles/airplanes ;)

btw, I'm quite interested in the background of most people here, what kind of religion do they have, which party do they support, from which part of lebanon are they?

And for a strong economy you need a welfare state, in which, in a taxe system, the poor are being supported and a bigger middle class is created. There needs to be a good health care insurance system and good education for everyone. Like in most european countries.

The reason we have Hizbollah or Hamas or other resistence group is the occupation, when Israel accepts the peace offer from beirut summit then these groups will be dissolved immediately...

The boll is at the Israelis

Not at our expense we refuse to hurl Lebanon into the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Hisballah has no business in that conflict. They should seek to the aid of their own people first. If they want to help the Palestinian cause than I suggest they do it from the Palestinian terratories. In no way should Lebanon be used as a proxy state to others. Capiche?

+ the violations of Lebanese ground / coastal / airspace territory by israeli military vehicles/airplanes ;)

btw, I'm quite interested in the background of most people here, what kind of religion do they have, which party do they support, from which part of lebanon are they?

And for a strong economy you need a welfare state, in which, in a taxe system, the poor are being supported and a bigger middle class is created. There needs to be a good health care insurance system and good education for everyone. Like in most european countries.

First Israel wouldn't violate our airspace if it wasn't for terrorist activity taking place within our boundaries, secondly even if they did we don't need hisballah to do the job. As far as the distribution of wealth that's up to the Lebanese to decide, besides as mentioned before the governemnt is not allowed to operate in hisballah controlled territory, meaning we can't aid certain parts accordingly. Hisballah is using the Palestinian cause to legitimnize their weapons. and if they are truly a resistance group than why use the weapons against their own people.

Not at our expense we refuse to hurl Lebanon into the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Hisballah has no business in that conflict. They should seek to the aid of their own people first. If they want to help the Palestinian cause than I suggest they do it from the Palestinian terratories. In no way should Lebanon be used as a proxy state to others. Capiche?

of course, i believe a peaceful Lebanon is much stronger....
We need to build our economy, and let the gov runs the foreign affairs

First Israel wouldn't violate our airspace if it wasn't for terrorist activity taking place within our boundaries, secondly even if they did we don't need hisballah to do the job. As far as the distribution of wealth that's up to the Lebanese to decide, besides as mentioned before the governemnt is not allowed to operate in hisballah controlled territory, meaning we can't aid certain parts accordingly. Hisballah is using the Palestinian cause to legitimnize their weapons. and if they are truly a resistance group than why use the weapons against their own people.

2008 may was chaos, and as soon as they accomplished their goals of regaining their communication system etc. they stopped and showed that they didn't want a coup d'etat or something. And most people seem to forget that also Future TV called for sinni fighters to gather on the streets and that also al-manar TV posts were attacked and destroyed in the north. So it wasn't coming from one side ;).

Secondly, what is "terrorist activity"? People just call people terrorists because they are their animies, that's it. Terrorism isn't that strange, it's just one of the many tactics of warfare. But it never is a goal on itself, it just a tactic/strategy with which people try to achieve goals. Also countries can use terrorism as a tactic, as Israel is doing right now or as The Netherlands used terrorist tactics in Indonesia. I don't see why it is more terrible than any other kind of warfare. Calling someone a terrorist is just an act to attack someone when you don't want to look carefully at who these people are and what they want and why. You can call everyone a terrorist if you want.

+ the violations of Lebanese ground / coastal / airspace territory by israeli military vehicles/airplanes ;)

btw, I'm quite interested in the background of most people here, what kind of religion do they have, which party do they support, from which part of lebanon are they?

And for a strong economy you need a welfare state, in which, in a taxe system, the poor are being supported and a bigger middle class is created. There needs to be a good health care insurance system and good education for everyone. Like in most european countries.

it's a dream,
we have a lot of money in Lebanon but no vision...
I have always been a lebanese, one who loves Lebanon with all the diversity.

It's just amazing how someone can defend Hizballah without any reason.

If it is in order ot protect the integrity of Lebanon, why not join forces with the Lebanese army? I wonder.

And the Sheeba Farms, first it should be discussed between Lebanon and Syria regarding to whom it belongs. Coz everybody says something different.
However, I don't think Israel would mind to give less that 10 square kilometers in order to gain peace and security in the Northern border.

So, what is Hizballah's real claim?

It's just amazing how someone can defend Hizballah without any reason.

If it is in order ot protect the integrity of Lebanon, why not join forces with the Lebanese army? I wonder.

And the Sheeba Farms, first it should be discussed between Lebanon and Syria regarding to whom it belongs. Coz everybody says something different.
However, I don't think Israel would mind to give less that 10 square kilometers in order to gain peace and security in the Northern border.

So, what is Hizballah's real claim?

they do mind, because of water recources over there and what some call "a security zone / buffer zone" and some extremist who believe that Israel should include parts of southern lebanon, Syria, Western Jordan and the Sinai.

they do mind, because of water recources over there and what some call "a security zone / buffer zone" and some extremist who believe that Israel should include parts of southern lebanon, Syria, Western Jordan and the Sinai.

Tell me a party which claims those lands mentioned openly and has over 5% of the votes in the Knesset?
If somebosy claims that area only marginal groups.

Why are you willing to learn Hebrew then? You can ask people in Israel speaking goood English woh will tell you that what you saying in plainly.......a nonsense

Peace and Israel is two words that are intricate to put into one sentence. Israel is a country with a seed of war, violence, and treachery. They have commited the most significant, menacing human crimes in humanity, both in Palestine, and in Southern Lebanon. In 1982 Israel began a 18 year invasion of Southern Lebanon that would confirm it's ill-minded existence. The ISF created the Khiam Jail where they raped women in front of their husbands, tortured and decapitated men, starved them to death, imagine walking down your neighborhood street hearing your mothers screams, while your dad cry's. They destroyed it in 2006 to burn the evidence. And this is the beginning they didn't allow the tens of thousands of Lebanese living outside Southern Lebanon visit their family members. Children would see their parents killed in front of them. They funded different political parties int he civil war because they knew that without Beirut being in total ruins, Tel Aviv would never become a prominet city in the middle east. For 18 years they harrased, embarrased tortured and applied the most underlying treachery among the people of southern lebanon, before the pride,bravery, and dignity of Hezbollah kicked the Israeli Terrorists out of our country. Israel took thousands of prisoners with them. 6 years later Hezbollah kidnapped 2 soldiers, so a trade could be produced. Israel destructed all of Lebanon except the Hezbollah guerillas. They killed over 4000 women and children shielding in UN shelters. They bombed and destroyed bridges and roads, in Lebanese villages that where march 14(the pro american party in lebanon) Including the largest bridge in the middle east, that lied in Northen Lebanon. They bombed and killed 10 UN peace workers taking refugee in a shelter, after the UN warned Israel to stop shelling around that area, they bombed a UN shelter with 500 children inside of it, with no trace of soldiers around it. In gaza they did the unthinkable 2 years later. The largest and only terrorists in the equation are the Israeli goverment, and Israeli soldiers. Yet the United States considers Hezbollah as terrorsiss when Hezbollah has only defended its's country and has not purposely killed one civilian in Israel.(it has killed about 4) The fact that Israel has broken the most UN resoultions by far in the world, the fact that each and every day they break the UN resoulution 1701 in lebanon by constately violoting our sea, and airspace mock raiding, and stealing our water the fact that they have killed the most innocent children and women in the world, the fact that they have settled in deceased Palestain's homes, the fact they consatently harasses and ignore the UN, proves their terrorist existence. A peace treaty is impossible until the international community recognizes Israeli terrrorism, and halts Israeli Terrrorism. Because Israel has statisticly commited the worst, terrorist crimes in the world. And peace treaties can not be made with a government with agression, violence and terrorism at it's seed. The wall standing in the way of Israel is hezbollah, the only wall standing in the way of the complete barbaric acts of the ISF is Hezbollah, and we will never step down, becuase we will never surrender to the terrrorist; blood-stained hands of Israel.

Tell me a party which claims those lands mentioned openly and has over 5% of the votes in the Knesset?
If somebosy claims that area only marginal groups.

Why are you willing to learn Hebrew then? You can ask people in Israel speaking goood English woh will tell you that what you saying in plainly.......a nonsense

+1

I understand that but how is that truly related to Lebanon? I mean, it's something between Lebanese and Israelis. The Palestinian refugees in Lebanon then?

I think Israel could be a good option in order to prevent Syria from deciding Lebanon's fate.

Its truly related to all the Arab countries, we have 500,000 Palestinian Refugees in Lebanon, If there was a reasonable 2 state solution granting Palestinians there own country and giving the Refugees a right of return then a Peace Treaty between Lebanon and Israel might happen, but until that happens there wont be a Peace Treaty

2008 may was chaos, and as soon as they accomplished their goals of regaining their communication system etc. they stopped and showed that they didn't want a coup d'etat or something. And most people seem to forget that also Future TV called for sinni fighters to gather on the streets and that also al-manar TV posts were attacked and destroyed in the north. So it wasn't coming from one side ;).

Secondly, what is "terrorist activity"? People just call people terrorists because they are their animies, that's it. Terrorism isn't that strange, it's just one of the many tactics of warfare. But it never is a goal on itself, it just a tactic/strategy with which people try to achieve goals. Also countries can use terrorism as a tactic, as Israel is doing right now or as The Netherlands used terrorist tactics in Indonesia. I don't see why it is more terrible than any other kind of warfare. Calling someone a terrorist is just an act to attack someone when you don't want to look carefully at who these people are and what they want and why. You can call everyone a terrorist if you want.

Let me refrain from using any cliches. Hisballah and palestinian activity within the boundary of the Lebanese Republic may be viewed as a threat to the Israeli State. This is why the Israelis feel compelled to violate our airspace for intelligence gathering. Although this is illegal, Israel is doing this for its own interests. Now I am not defending Israel's right to our airspace, but we need to keep in mind that if Hisballah disarms and the Lebanese army takes control of its territory than Israel will not violate our airspace.

As for the shebaa farms is concerned we need to resolve this first with our sisterly Syrian neighbor, they need to demarcate the border so we can once and for all claim ownership. We can't just demand property without any evidence or deed of ownership.

Now The may 7th clashes, under no circumstance does hisballah have the right to use their weapons against there own citizens, do you understand? destroying al manar tv station in the north was a retaliatory event in lieu of what happened to the burning of future TV. Besides dismantling the ILLEGAL communication network was decided by the majority government, not by some fanatical proxy hypocritical militia that does what it wishes with no regard to law and order. If the Lebanese want to resist the so called enemy than let the entire nation of Lebanon do so, but to tell me that we have no right to even debate the matter in our own parliament and determine our own future simply because hisb calls themselves a resistance group is a farce.

Peace and Israel is two words that are intricate to put into one sentence. Israel is a country with a seed of war, violence, and treachery. They have commited the most significant, menacing human crimes in humanity, both in Palestine, and in Southern Lebanon. In 1982 Israel began a 18 year invasion of Southern Lebanon that would confirm it's ill-minded existence. The ISF created the Khiam Jail where they raped women in front of their husbands, tortured and decapitated men, starved them to death, imagine walking down your neighborhood street hearing your mothers screams, while your dad cry's. They destroyed it in 2006 to burn the evidence. And this is the beginning they didn't allow the tens of thousands of Lebanese living outside Southern Lebanon visit their family members. Children would see their parents killed in front of them. They funded different political parties int he civil war because they knew that without Beirut being in total ruins, Tel Aviv would never become a prominet city in the middle east. For 18 years they harrased, embarrased tortured and applied the most underlying treachery among the people of southern lebanon, before the pride,bravery, and dignity of Hezbollah kicked the Israeli Terrorists out of our country. Israel took thousands of prisoners with them. 6 years later Hezbollah kidnapped 2 soldiers, so a trade could be produced. Israel destructed all of Lebanon except the Hezbollah guerillas. They killed over 4000 women and children shielding in UN shelters. They bombed and destroyed bridges and roads, in Lebanese villages that where march 14(the pro american party in lebanon) Including the largest bridge in the middle east, that lied in Northen Lebanon. They bombed and killed 10 UN peace workers taking refugee in a shelter, after the UN warned Israel to stop shelling around that area, they bombed a UN shelter with 500 children inside of it, with no trace of soldiers around it. In gaza they did the unthinkable 2 years later. The largest and only terrorists in the equation are the Israeli goverment, and Israeli soldiers. Yet the United States considers Hezbollah as terrorsiss when Hezbollah has only defended its's country and has not purposely killed one civilian in Israel.(it has killed about 4) The fact that Israel has broken the most UN resoultions by far in the world, the fact that each and every day they break the UN resoulution 1701 in lebanon by constately violoting our sea, and airspace mock raiding, and stealing our water the fact that they have killed the most innocent children and women in the world, the fact that they have settled in deceased Palestain's homes, the fact they consatently harasses and ignore the UN, proves their terrorist existence. A peace treaty is impossible until the international community recognizes Israeli terrrorism, and halts Israeli Terrrorism. Because Israel has statisticly commited the worst, terrorist crimes in the world. And peace treaties can not be made with a government with agression, violence and terrorism at it's seed. The wall standing in the way of Israel is hezbollah, the only wall standing in the way of the complete barbaric acts of the ISF is Hezbollah, and we will never step down, becuase we will never surrender to the terrrorist; blood-stained hands of Israel.

you need to be more precise and focused in your debate, also you need to paragraph otherwise no one will read what you wrote, it's very long and redundant. you could have summarized all that in a short sentence.

Melkart, shu biek ya khaiye/ Baddak aum bit oul hez the terrorists? Allah alekk, u will never open your eyes, you will never expand your slim thought bubble. You are truly a extremist. Statistically the only terrorists in the equation are the Israelis. bus shu badi elak deii ill meii, ouu bit konn meii.

Hamas Vows to Fight alongside Hizbullah in Next Israeli War

Hamas' political chief in Lebanon Ali Baraka on Sunday vowed to fight alongside Hizbullah in the next Israeli war on Lebanon.

"We are guests in Lebanon and our policy will not change," Baraka said during a memorial service to mark one week of the death of two Hamas members in a mysterious explosion in Beirut's southern suburbs.

"However, we are committed to resisting Israeli occupation" forces," he added.

"Israel should know that if it launched a new attack against Lebanon, we will not stand handcuffed. We will face the aggression side by side with our brethren in Lebanon – be they the resistance, the army, or the people, to repel the aggression," Baraka warned.

For the people who like to spit a few extremsit words here and there, and fail to provide sense in their aurguments. Spend 2 minutes of your time and read it, it doesnt take much effort.

Israli's claim that through their religion of Judaism, Israel must be their's. Great does it say to do all the crimes of humanity depicted in my original post. That whole theory is one that is double-standard and false at all levels.

Nice- you come into a Lebanese forum and start insulting the country and some of its people.

For the record, the only reason Israel even entered Lebanon was because of Hizbullah. So it's a bit imbecilic to call Hizbullah the 'resistance', when in fact it was largely responsible for bringing war to Lebanon in the first place. Therefore, it's incorrect to be placing blame on the underequipped LAF.

Where are you fabricating these lies my freind? This comment shows your EXTREME uneducated ignorant views. "For the record", hezbollah was not created in 1982, it was created 5 years later in a response to the Israeli atrocities. Israel entered Lebanon to further plunge it into war my funding and arming diffrent politcal parties, and killing and torturing innocent civilains, furthermore their undoubted goal was to destruct Beirut to the highest degree possible so it could not see sucess again. Maybe you might want to "record that" my friend. :lol::ohno:

Its truly related to all the Arab countries, we have 500,000 Palestinian Refugees in Lebanon, If there was a reasonable 2 state solution granting Palestinians there own country and giving the Refugees a right of return then a Peace Treaty between Lebanon and Israel might happen, but until that happens there wont be a Peace Treaty


Abdallah you are right about the status of the refugees, that is an issue that we must resolve between us and the country that will accept the refugees be it the plaestinian territories or other states that are willing to accept them. Having said all that we need to solve other pending issues first like securing our borders, placing all of lebanon under state control as an example. we don't need hisballah to solve our refugee crisis. I am afraid they will only get in the way.

Melkart, shu biek ya khaiye/ Baddak aum bit oul hez the terrorists? Allah alekk, u will never open your eyes, you will never expand your slim thought bubble. You are truly a extremist. Statistically the only terrorists in the equation are the Israelis. bus shu badi elak deii ill meii, ouu bit konn meii.

Jader we have to move forward we can't dwell on every event in the past. This isn't a matter of taking sides, it's a matter of uniting the country under one banner. I don't have an iussue with a party that takes care of its own people, but please no weapons outside of state control. all the development and investments that are pouring in the country will mean nothing if hisballah maintains their grip on the country.

Let me refrain from using any cliches. Hisballah and palestinian activity within the boundary of the Lebanese Republic may be viewed as a threat to the Israeli State.

Are you in denial ya khaye. What is Hezbollah activity based on? Does 1982 ring a bell. Does the 18 year occupation, harassment, embarrassment, and complete destruction of the Soutern Lebanon, and the Southern Lebanese people ring a bell. If Mexico occupies texas; tortures, killes and isolates Texans from the rest of the United States, does all of this not provide a justified reason for resistance? Wake up habbibi!!


This is why the Israelis feel compelled to violate our airspace for intelligence gathering. Although this is illegal, Israel is doing this for its own interests. Now I am not defending Israel's right to our airspace, but we need to keep in mind that if Hisballah disarms and the Lebanese army takes control of its territory than Israel will not violate our airspace.

Lets follow up shall we; after Mexico leaves Texas becuase of the fierce resistance they encountered; does it make it justified for them vilate the UN resoultuion put in place every day, by violated Lebanese air space, Lebanese sea space, and by stealing Lebanese water. ???

The water issue isn't a big enough threat to distabilize the whole country. We should't ignore the matter, but there are other ways to deal with this than to have a resistance group lol. We need to prioritise our issues. Water isn't at the top of the agenda.

Jader we have to move forward we can't dwell on every event in the past. This isn't a matter of taking sides, it's a matter of uniting the country under one banner. I don't have an iussue with a party that takes care of its own people, but please no weapons outside of state control. all the development and investments that are pouring in the country will mean nothing if hisballah maintains their grip on the country.

Its funny how you flip flop on subjects so often!! It remindes me of Jeagea :nuts:

we can't dwell on every event in the past. This isn't a matter of taking sides, it's a matter of uniting the country under one banner. I don't have an iussue with a party that takes care of its own

First Israel wouldn't violate our airspace if it wasn't for terrorist activity taking place within our boundaries

If you read my original comment, you would of read

A peace treaty is impossible until the international community recognizes Israeli terrrorism, and halts Israeli Terrrorism. Because Israel has statisticly commited the worst, terrorist crimes in the world. And peace treaties can not be made with a government with agression, violence and terrorism at it's seed. The wall standing in the way of Israel is hezbollah, the only wall standing in the way of the complete barbaric acts of the ISF is Hezbollah

I am all for moving on(notice i did not mention what the isralie's have done to the Palestains.)
How can Southern Lebanese believe and trust that Israel will stop committing atrocities when they did what they did to gaza, and how they have broken the most UN resolutions in the world, and continue to break UN resolution EVERY PASSING DAY. The point is that the International Community is not even recognizing these atrocities, and the largest world power in the world considers our resistance a terrorist organization, while dismissing the terrorist activity of Israel. There is no hope that Israel will not repeat what they did 28 years ago, and there is no hope that they will not get away with it. Israel has ruined so much. And the only thing standing in the way of their terrorist activities is Hezbollah.

The water issue isn't a big enough threat to distabilize the whole country. We should't ignore the matter, but there are other ways to deal with this than to have a resistance group lol. We need to prioritise our issues. Water isn't at the top of the agenda.

If this is the only thing you took from my aurgument i really dont find it worth it, discussing this subject with you. :) And more importantly i find it more intresting to see where did the Israel's suddenly go?? SharShahton haha, and melkart no matter what we are both Lebanese and we both have the common goal to secure, and move towards a safe, sovereign Lebanon.

I don't really listen to Geagea enough to know that he flip flops, I think he has come along way given what he did in 89. either way that's what kills me we all seem to be in agreement regarding lebanon's security, but I think we differ on how to solve the issue. Our biggest obstacle is to learn to trust eachother before we trust others. Another words march 8th and march 14th need to work together to better the nation. If hisballah was a Lebanese militia that represented all faiths in the country it would still be a problem for me. but since they are one faith based, I find this very troubling. The way I see it The lebanese governemnet has come along way, we need to strenghthen it by our unity, we also need to put our trust in the hands of our government.

^^ My sole argument was foreign not domestic.(i really don't want to argue about domestic) I agree with alot of what u said though . I am challenging Israelis on this thread. It just kills me when u call Hezbollah a terrorist organization, and support Israel so blindly it make you sound like a Israeli. But then u come and start saying that u want 8 and 14 to work together, and u respect people fighting to protect their familys which is much different then what u said before. I have faith in my army but as long as their this weak, i can not rely on them to protect me and my family. Especially when u have Israel as a neighbor.

@jader3283

Jader, I understand your concerns about Israel as a threat to Lebanon. After all, we did fight several wars in Lebanon, kill over a thousand Lebanese and displaced many more. And so I can understand why you support Hizbullah---since they are the only group inside Lebanon that is strong enough to stand up to Israel. But, you are making a very big misunderstanding on one fact: Israel's actions in Lebanon have never been driven by ideology, but rather, by issues of self-defence. That is to say, we don't go to war in Lebanon for the purpose of taking your land and killing your people and seeing as many innocent people suffer as possible. And that innocent people in Lebanon, in the West Bank, in Gaza, or wherever else, have suffered at Israel's hands is most unfortunate and I am sorry for this. People here do not support war because they derive pleasure from other peoples' suffering. We support war for many of the same reasons you support Hizbullah--- because you feel your country is being threatened by some external threat and you believe in your country's right to self-defense. When Hizbullah or Hamas attack Israel (even if this involves kidnapping a soldier or firing rockets into Israel), we too feel similarly threatened and believe that it is our legitimate right to defend ourselves and our borders. Unfortunately for you, this sometimes comes at the expense of your peace and security. But take it from me, no one here would support an armed conflict in or with Lebanon if they did not perceive that Israel is under attack from Lebanon (or some group operating from within).

@jader3283

Jader, I understand your concerns about Israel as a threat to Lebanon. After all, we did fight several wars in Lebanon, kill over a thousand Lebanese and displaced many more. And so I can understand why you support Hizbullah---since they are the only group inside Lebanon that is strong enough to stand up to Israel. But, you are making a very big misunderstanding on one fact: Israel's actions in Lebanon have never been driven by ideology, but rather, by issues of self-defence. That is to say, we don't go to war in Lebanon for the purpose of taking your land and killing your people and seeing as many innocent people suffer as possible. And that innocent people in Lebanon, in the West Bank, in Gaza, or wherever else, have suffered at Israel's hands is most unfortunate and I am sorry for this. People here do not support war because they derive pleasure from other peoples' suffering. We support war for many of the same reasons you support Hizbullah--- because you feel your country is being threatened by some external threat and you believe in your country's right to self-defense. When Hizbullah or Hamas attack Israel (even if this involves kidnapping a soldier or firing rockets into Israel), we too feel similarly threatened and believe that it is our legitimate right to defend ourselves and our borders. Unfortunately for you, this sometimes comes at the expense of your peace and security. But take it from me, no one here would support an armed conflict in or with Lebanon if they did not perceive that Israel is under attack from Lebanon (or some group operating from within).

:applause::applause::applause::applause:

^^Good post. I wish the Israeli's in Canada spoke that level headed. I have no issue with the israeli's, of course with policy I do. But i also have something against the entire world's foreign policies haha. But the Israeli's here in Canada, well the ones I have met were soo fine with me initially. Until they found out I was Lebanese, then Druze.. then I started to get dirty looks, and sooo much rude shit said to me! Weird, seeing as I never said anything against Israel, because as far as I see it Israel and Lebanon are the two most advanced in the area, and well future is in technology, not in land.


But as for everyone else's little fights. Just know that Lebanon doesn't even have a consensus history book on what happened, how it happened and who it happened too. That being said, how the hell are any of you capable of blaming people, when the country itself isn't capable of doing so??


And I cannot remember who said it, but about lebanon being liberal because of christians. That doesn't make any sense. The country is liberal because early on it heavily invested in cultures and art. And adopted a medditerannean lifestyle. Other countries - in the middle east specifically- which are muslim aren't as liberal because well they had kings and queens, or rulers who weren't cycled in more recent times. And, they really didn't invest too much effort in the development of an artistic culture - which brings freedom.

^^ My sole argument was foreign not domestic.(i really don't want to argue about domestic) I agree with alot of what u said though . I am challenging Israelis on this thread. It just kills me when u call Hezbollah a terrorist organization, and support Israel so blindly it make you sound like a Israeli. But then u come and start saying that u want 8 and 14 to work together, and u respect people fighting to protect their familys which is much different then what u said before. I have faith in my army but as long as their this weak, i can not rely on them to protect me and my family. Especially when u have Israel as a neighbor.

I don't support Israel Blindly, I disagree with them on many issues. For example illegal settlements, water rights, just to name a few. However we must keep in mind that regardless of all the Israeli brutality that took place in Lebanon, none of it occured due to their need of aquiring Lebanese territory. For instance the 1982 invasion was to drive the PLO out, the 20 year occupation to protect their northern border, the 2006 war was to bring back their soldiers and weaken hisballah which poses a threat. Name a single war where innocent civilians didn't die. So you see if we mind our own business and leave the Palestinian Israeli conflict to the Israelies and Palestinians we would prosper, and we wouldn't have a need for a resistance. Look at Syria They lost the entire Golan height, you don't see them defending their territory. Instead they use us to fight their war they figure we (meaning hisballah) and some palestinian factions can do it for them. That way when hell brakes loose Lebanon gets the brunt and not Syria. Is that what we want? to fight other people's wars?

On another note; I would post this in the random chat forum, but politics is not allowed. For this reason I will post my comments on here:

A president seat is reserved for a maronite christian, would it make sence if the seat was open to all christians including the Orthodox, protestants, and melkites.

Same thing with the Prime ministry; It is reserved for a sunni. For this one I would allow either a druze or sunni to share this post. One at a time of course.

the speaker of the house will remain for the shiites, since they comprise 30% of the population.

This way all sects get a chance to serve in an executive post!
not to mention this is a closer step to secularism!

What do you guys and gals think?

I'm for a complete secularization.

On another note; I would post this in the random chat forum, but politics is not allowed. For this reason I will post my comments on here:

A president seat is reserved for a maronite christian, would it make sence if the seat was open to all christians including the Orthodox, protestants, and melkites.

Same thing with the Prime ministry; It is reserved for a sunni. For this one I would allow either a druze or sunni to share this post. One at a time of course.

the speaker of the house will remain for the shiites, since they comprise 30% of the population.

This way all sects get a chance to serve in an executive post!
not to mention this is a closer step to secularism!

What do you guys and gals think?

Why are you referring to Druze and Sunnis as if they are sects within the same religion? I dont think a Druze politician could even be selected by Parliament as PM.

Likewise.
Until then it would be nice if presidency/vice presidency and speaker are rotated between the sects (and not the denominations, because that is redundant). Because it is not as though our maronite president rules using the bible, and neither does the vice president rule via the qu'ran.
However for that to occur, we need a strong council...similar to that of turkey's.

*And Beiruti is right, the Druze themselves don't even identify themselves as muslims. So they wouldn't be considered a denomination of Islam...although we are on offshoot of the Ismaili's.

My thoughts on the Lebanon/Israel issue.

As an agnostic Lebanese-American, I strongly oppose an independent Israel-Lebanon peace treaty, but I do support an immediate cessation of hostilities and a return to the 1949 armistice.

Hezbollah and all other armed groups in Lebanon must disarm. The Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) should be the sole force for defending the country from threats, both internal and external. If the Shebaa Farms are deemed to be Lebanese (which I believe they are), then Israel must withdraw from them.

Israel must cease all violations of Lebanon's sovereignty, including the illegal overflights. As the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) builds up its capabilities, UNIFIL would be downsized to be a small observer force devoted to monitoring the border to document any violations by either side and constantly remind each side about its commitment.

I will support a peace treaty only as part of a comprehensive Middle East peace solution that all parties agree on.

I do not think an independent peace treaty between Lebanon and Israel could hold nor do I think it is in the interests of Lebanon.

Why are you referring to Druze and Sunnis as if they are sects within the same religion? I dont think a Druze politician could even be selected by Parliament as PM.

I am not comparing the two at all! I am simply saying that the PMship could be shared by the two sects. not at the same time. It just means that both a Druze and a Sunni can compete for the same seat as opposed to having two sunnis compete. Think about it Hariri was uncontested. It just happens that I picked sunnis and the Druze. It could easily be the sunnis and some other sect, but I picked the druze, they seemed appropriate for that post. as for the druze being selected for the PMship you atre right it's a long shot but at least they have the chance. Maybe a Druze will arrise out of the masses, and win the hearts and minds of the sunnis and other sects, to establish himself or herself as the head of state.

^^

Sorry, we just made the connection because you listed the Christian sects competing for the same position.

My thoughts on the Lebanon/Israel issue.

As an agnostic Lebanese-American, I strongly oppose an independent Israel-Lebanon peace treaty, but I do support an immediate cessation of hostilities and a return to the 1949 armistice.

Hezbollah and all other armed groups in Lebanon must disarm. The Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) should be the sole force for defending the country from threats, both internal and external. If the Shebaa Farms are deemed to be Lebanese (which I believe they are), then Israel must withdraw from them.

Israel must cease all violations of Lebanon's sovereignty, including the illegal overflights. As the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) builds up its capabilities, UNIFIL would be downsized to be a small observer force devoted to monitoring the border to document any violations by either side and constantly remind each side about its commitment.

I will support a peace treaty only as part of a comprehensive Middle East peace solution that all parties agree on.

I do not think an independent peace treaty between Lebanon and Israel could hold nor do I think it is in the interests of Lebanon.

^^ wow there is nothing wrong with you after all! agreed! :)

FYI - I brigged wakrah for insulting me in a PM. He shouldnt be bothering us for a while.

Likewise.
Until then it would be nice if presidency/vice presidency and speaker are rotated between the sects (and not the denominations, because that is redundant). Because it is not as though our maronite president rules using the bible, and neither does the vice president rule via the qu'ran.
However for that to occur, we need a strong council...similar to that of turkey's.

*And Beiruti is right, the Druze themselves don't even identify themselves as muslims. So they wouldn't be considered a denomination of Islam...although we are on offshoot of the Ismaili's.

agreed except for the rotation. I like it spontaneous, sometimes when you force a system it fires back. It should be a natural process where sects compete against eachother to better the cause.

FYI - I brigged wakrah for insulting me in a PM. He shouldnt be bothering us for a while.

Oh that idiot? I am disapointed he got as much attention as he did!

I'm for a complete secularization.

me too, one step at time though!

My thoughts on the Lebanon/Israel issue.

As an agnostic Lebanese-American, I strongly oppose an independent Israel-Lebanon peace treaty, but I do support an immediate cessation of hostilities and a return to the 1949 armistice.

Hezbollah and all other armed groups in Lebanon must disarm. The Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) should be the sole force for defending the country from threats, both internal and external. If the Shebaa Farms are deemed to be Lebanese (which I believe they are), then Israel must withdraw from them.

Israel must cease all violations of Lebanon's sovereignty, including the illegal overflights. As the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) builds up its capabilities, UNIFIL would be downsized to be a small observer force devoted to monitoring the border to document any violations by either side and constantly remind each side about its commitment.

I will support a peace treaty only as part of a comprehensive Middle East peace solution that all parties agree on.

I do not think an independent peace treaty between Lebanon and Israel could hold nor do I think it is in the interests of Lebanon.

This is the plan that makes the most sense, but I still cant fathom why no one is outraged at Syria for holding Shebaa hostage! WHY wont Syria inform the UN that the land is Lebanese (we all know the reason) ...all it takes is one statement and Israel will be gone the next day!

spontaneous would be beautiful. But, you must remember that people will still vote along their sectarian lines because they are used to it. So, unless we change the mentality of the nation, it can't be spontaneous.
However, seeing as for next elections they are trying to make it that all Lebanese expats can vote from wherever they are through Lebanese embassies/consultates. If that is turned to reality, then spontaneous would work because Lebanese expats would "hopefully" vote on platform... and not on sectarian lines.

spontaneous would be beautiful. But, you must remember that people will still vote along their sectarian lines because they are used to it. So, unless we change the mentality of the nation, it can't be spontaneous.
However, seeing as for next elections they are trying to make it that all Lebanese expats can vote from wherever they are through Lebanese embassies/consultates. If that is turned to reality, then spontaneous would work because Lebanese expats would "hopefully" vote on platform... and not on sectarian lines.

One can always dream, If I get to vote, my ass will be voting from New York.

This is the plan that makes the most sense, but I still cant fathom why no one is outraged at Syria for holding Shebaa hostage! WHY wont Syria inform the UN that the land is Lebanese (we all know the reason) ...all it takes is one statement and Israel will be gone the next day!

I think the reason is because Syria is worried about being left out as they are trying to get back the Golan Heights. The Golan Heights and Shebaa Farms were after all occupied at the same time.

I strongly oppose Syria's criminal oppressive autocratic regime, but I do support their demands for the return of the Golan Heights. Regimes come and go, and the issue of the Golan Heights is a Syrian sovereignty issue and not a Syrian regime issue.

Having said that, I don't agree with Syria's approach in refusing to talk about the Shebaa Farms until Israel withdraws from the Golan Heights. I find it selfish of them.

Out of goodwill to Lebanon and if it really cares about supporting the interests of Lebanon, just as we support them in regaining the Golan Heights, they should flat out and say the Shebaa Farms are Lebanese and support Lebanon's quest for regaining them.

^^ Actually, we all know that the reason is they WANT Shebaa to be occupied forever for the simple reason that it gives Hizballah a reason to exist.

^^There is no logic in that. Syria wants the Golan Heights back and that's one of the reasons why they support Hezbollah. They want Hezbollah to keep up pressure on Israel and they want Lebanon to be the battleground so that Syria doesn't suffer from the direct consequences.

If they get the Golan Heights back, the Shebaa Farms cannot continue to be occupied. The Shebaa Farms is used an an excuse to keep Hezbollah armed, yes, but Syria's ultimate goal is the return of the Golan Heights. They could care less about the Shebaa Farms, it's just a pretext they use to justify Hezbollah's existence.

Calling for the continued occupation of the Shebaa Farms is calling for the continued occupation of the Golan Heights. So they certainly do not want the Shebaa Farms occupied forever. They want them occupied as long as the Golan Heights are occupied.

^^Good post. I wish the Israeli's in Canada spoke that level headed. I have no issue with the israeli's, of course with policy I do. But i also have something against the entire world's foreign policies haha. But the Israeli's here in Canada, well the ones I have met were soo fine with me initially. Until they found out I was Lebanese, then Druze.. then I started to get dirty looks, and sooo much rude shit said to me! Weird, seeing as I never said anything against Israel, because as far as I see it Israel and Lebanon are the two most advanced in the area, and well future is in technology, not in land.


But as for everyone else's little fights. Just know that Lebanon doesn't even have a consensus history book on what happened, how it happened and who it happened too. That being said, how the hell are any of you capable of blaming people, when the country itself isn't capable of doing so??


And I cannot remember who said it, but about lebanon being liberal because of christians. That doesn't make any sense. The country is liberal because early on it heavily invested in cultures and art. And adopted a medditerannean lifestyle. Other countries - in the middle east specifically- which are muslim aren't as liberal because well they had kings and queens, or rulers who weren't cycled in more recent times. And, they really didn't invest too much effort in the development of an artistic culture - which brings freedom.

Well, I'm sorry you had that experience - it also happened to me the other way around. Whatever your political opinions are it is just plainly stupid to like someone and stop talking to him because you perceived in your childhood that they are some sort of "evil" or simply that what separates you and the other person is too great.
That's why I think it's positive that Lebanese come into the Isralei forum and Israelis into the Lebanese. People may criticize the other, but it's better to talk than not to talk at all.

And somehoe it is surprising as a Druze, coz in Israel we love our Druze! I even made a huge research paper of the Druze population in Israel at my university! :lol:

About the Lebanese elections.

Is it possible that with times the religious lines will be abolished? Or is it still like a Pandora's box nobody wants to open? In recent years I've seen a Pan-Lebanese movement growing inside the country growing.

On the other hand, the Lebanese outside Lebanon to vote, how many people would there be potentially nivolved?

outside lebanon there is like 11 million of us, maybe more.
Seeing as Brazil is home to 8 million lebanese, expats will sway the voting.

And ya, I know you guys usually like the Druze. That is why I was kind of shocked lol..But its true, it is from both sides that we have these rotten personalities. I have jewish friends, but I guess I will have to wait till I find an Israeli friend that is accepting of my Lebness lol

^^ Well, here you find one!

Actually in London I know some Israelis and Lebanese which get along just fine, they just fight whenever somebody cooks hummus and which country makes the best one :lol:

My thoughts on the Lebanon/Israel issue.

As an agnostic Lebanese-American, I strongly oppose an independent Israel-Lebanon peace treaty, but I do support an immediate cessation of hostilities and a return to the 1949 armistice.

Hezbollah and all other armed groups in Lebanon must disarm. The Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) should be the sole force for defending the country from threats, both internal and external. If the Shebaa Farms are deemed to be Lebanese (which I believe they are), then Israel must withdraw from them.

Israel must cease all violations of Lebanon's sovereignty, including the illegal overflights. As the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) builds up its capabilities, UNIFIL would be downsized to be a small observer force devoted to monitoring the border to document any violations by either side and constantly remind each side about its commitment.

I will support a peace treaty only as part of a comprehensive Middle East peace solution that all parties agree on.

I do not think an independent peace treaty between Lebanon and Israel could hold nor do I think it is in the interests of Lebanon.

Good points. But if I may ask, why do you think that a peace treaty should come as part of a comprehensive Middle East peace solution? I am all for anything that will prevent more wars and fighting, but I am not sure if an armistice or any other type of temporary arrangement is adequate. It wouldn't keep either side from fighting the other. If for instance, Lebanon and Israel did return to the 1949 armistice, and Hizbullah or some Palestinian group were to begin firing rockets into northern Israel, then I think Israel would eventually be forced to respond militarily.

I think that it's in Israel's best interests to resolve the impasse with the Palestinians. But one thing I can assure you of is that when a peace agreement is reached between the Israelis and the Palestinians, the 500,000 Palestinians living inside Lebanon won't be allowed to move to Israel or to the West Bank/Gaza. So in practical terms, I don't think it makes sense for Lebanon to use the Israeli-Palestinian situation as a precondition for Lebanese-Israeli peace. If Lebanese refuse to make peace primarily on ideological grounds, then this is a different matter with which I can't argue.

I think that peace will ultimately benefit both sides tremendously, but I think that Lebanon has more to gain from a peace agreement than Israel does. So the longer that a peace agreement is stalled/put off, the more Lebanon loses (or fails to gain).

outside lebanon there is like 11 million of us, maybe more.
Seeing as Brazil is home to 8 million lebanese, expats will sway the voting.

And ya, I know you guys usually like the Druze. That is why I was kind of shocked lol..But its true, it is from both sides that we have these rotten personalities. I have jewish friends, but I guess I will have to wait till I find an Israeli friend that is accepting of my Lebness lol

Yeah, I agree with MIBO. We sure love our Druze here in Israel. I am actually a little surprised that the Israelis you met in Canada gave you trouble. I mean on the one hand, we have a lot of stupid and ignorant people here (just like everywhere else). However, I think that Israelis by and large tend to be curious about Lebanon and its people. And I know that Lebanese tourists who come to Israel generally don't have any problems.

Dear All,
I spend quite some time read all posts from page 180!!...
And for its just another reflection of the Lebanese diversity...i have a couple of statements in order to port my point of view:
1- Lebanese is Lebanese.... Palestinians are not Lebanese ...and never will be!! for the simple reason that they don’t want to lose their ID ...which is normal ....and on the other hand we cannot support them ....and THEY were never grateful for what Lebanon offered them ... on the contrary all they did is use our land to attack Israel and TRY to get back their land .....which it was their own fault to lose it in the first place and they became carried with politics and money and stealing and kidnapping ppl in Lebanon that they forgot the basic and the essence of their cause .
As a result! we have weak GOVERMENTS ( since the huge mistake of the Cairo agreement till now ) and we let them be free in Lebanon
but they couldn’t do that without help from fellow Lebanese like all Sunni’s and some shiits and Druze ...which they believed that they can gain a lot by siding with PLO and after 30 years they realize their mistake !.
2- SYRIA.....this country that never admitted the fact that Lebanon is a country and never thought of having an embassy here!! ...
All they did is manipulating ppl here in their favor..... giving money to this party to fight some1 else and at the same time kidnapping and killing ppl from all RELIGIONS
3- Hezbollah: this strange party or militia ...with no relations to the Lebanese history what so ever. just another tool for the Iranians in the Middle east since the 80's with the Iranian troops in the bekaa that they wanted some1 to make their plans true but with Lebanese uniform
Hezbollah is kidnapping Lebanon! ...we are not like that! ...even though we fought Syrians for 30 Years ...we established Lebanon 1920 we helped establishing the UN
We contributed to the Arab world ... Hezbollah is a strange context in LEBANON
They were not alone to fight against Israel! ...many other parties did before them....
but when u have the money u have the power !! ... Give me money and weapons and i can fight China ....this is how it’s going in Lebanon.....
They hide behind big slogans like CHebaa and kfarchouba ! ....and on the other hand they oppress ppl in Beirut and Lebanon

-Christians make lebanon as we know it ... our influence in the economy and relations with the west is what kept lebanon as the top destination for the middle east !
Dubai and Gulf have soooo much money ! but they dont have the taste or the know how ! every single company in the gulf hires lebanese and english managers and that a fact !
Mr. Deutsh ... sorry but YES u are misinformed and brainwashed ! ... ..



and ppl watching media and visiting lebanon or damascus for a short period ! and
trying to defend what they cant understand !... please its is up to us lebanese ! and we hardly like others to judge us !

bullshit, the mix of what lebanon is makes lebanon what it is, not just the christians. Again you are still thinking very sectarious and confessional instead of secular.

Secondly, why will they never be Lebanese? They will be. Just as in the Netherlands we don't know anymore who was originally a french, spanish, german or portuguese refugee in the 1600's.

@jader, this is the only effective defense against such a dangerous agressor in the region

d7iu3cmc--0

Btw, strange that israel likes the druz, in lebanon they fought for the palestinian case.

yea and Ariel Sharon used to visit joumblat regularly in Moukhtara( joumblat's Castle)

Druze's sometimes fought with the israeli's in Leb....and shiit's welcomed israeli's with flowers in the south ...against palestinians !! ....

Lebanese is so complicated and dense !

Btw, strange that israel likes the druz, in lebanon they fought for the palestinian case.

It's not strange at all. They serve in the army. They take bullets for the country. People respect this. Israel even had a Druze president a few years ago.

Secondly, why will they never be Lebanese?

Because we decided so, because we live in lala land and because we don't have any other problems to take care of, so we spend our free time enjoying their sufferings... :|

Im tired of explaining to this and to that that their naturalization means our collapse, and we are not a charity.


They will be. Just as in the Netherlands we don't know anymore who was originally a french, spanish, german or portuguese refugee in the 1600's.


They won't be. Lebanon is not Europe and 1948 is not 400 years ago.

You seemed to be somehow knowledgeable about the Lebanese reality until that post of yours.

Dear All,
I spend quite some time read all posts from page 180!!...
And for its just another reflection of the Lebanese diversity...i have a couple of statements in order to port my point of view:
1- Lebanese is Lebanese.... Palestinians are not Lebanese ...and never will be!! for the simple reason that they don’t want to lose their ID ...which is normal ....and on the other hand we cannot support them ....and THEY were never grateful for what Lebanon offered them ... on the contrary all they did is use our land to attack Israel and TRY to get back their land .....which it was their own fault to lose it in the first place and they became carried with politics and money and stealing and kidnapping ppl in Lebanon that they forgot the basic and the essence of their cause .
As a result! we have weak GOVERMENTS ( since the huge mistake of the Cairo agreement till now ) and we let them be free in Lebanon
but they couldn’t do that without help from fellow Lebanese like all Sunni’s and some shiits and Druze ...which they believed that they can gain a lot by siding with PLO and after 30 years they realize their mistake !.
2- SYRIA.....this country that never admitted the fact that Lebanon is a country and never thought of having an embassy here!! ...
All they did is manipulating ppl here in their favor..... giving money to this party to fight some1 else and at the same time kidnapping and killing ppl from all RELIGIONS
3- Hezbollah: this strange party or militia ...with no relations to the Lebanese history what so ever. just another tool for the Iranians in the Middle east since the 80's with the Iranian troops in the bekaa that they wanted some1 to make their plans true but with Lebanese uniform
Hezbollah is kidnapping Lebanon! ...we are not like that! ...even though we fought Syrians for 30 Years ...we established Lebanon 1920 we helped establishing the UN
We contributed to the Arab world ... Hezbollah is a strange context in LEBANON
They were not alone to fight against Israel! ...many other parties did before them....
but when u have the money u have the power !! ... Give me money and weapons and i can fight China ....this is how it’s going in Lebanon.....
They hide behind big slogans like CHebaa and kfarchouba ! ....and on the other hand they oppress ppl in Beirut and Lebanon

-Christians make lebanon as we know it ... our influence in the economy and relations with the west is what kept lebanon as the top destination for the middle east !
Dubai and Gulf have soooo much money ! but they dont have the taste or the know how ! every single company in the gulf hires lebanese and english managers and that a fact !
Mr. Deutsh ... sorry but YES u are misinformed and brainwashed ! ... ..



and ppl watching media and visiting lebanon or damascus for a short period ! and
trying to defend what they cant understand !... please its is up to us lebanese ! and we hardly like others to judge us !

All our problem in Lebanon is because of the bad system that france gave us in 1948 where the christians especially the moranite got almost all the power in Lebanon and that created a big gap in the lebanese sociaty, where some people
in this case the moranite had the privilege to got all the advantage from having full power in lebanon.
and others in this case the moslem were bad educated, bad treated and so on.

if there is no fairness and justice there is no country, it so simple
Lebanon collapsed....

and it's the same now if lebanon doesn't build a fair and just system, Lebanon will collapse sooner or later...

Actually, we all know that the reason is they WANT Shebaa to be occupied forever for the simple reason that it gives Hizballah a reason to exist.

Habibi, this is the slimmest reason for Hezbollah, hezbollah is the only front resisting and victoring against the largest criminal and terrorist acting group; the Israeli Army.

Well, I'm sorry you had that experience - it also happened to me the other way around. Whatever your political opinions are it is just plainly stupid to like someone and stop talking to him because you perceived in your childhood that they are some sort of "evil" or simply that what separates you and the other person is too great.
That's why I think it's positive that Lebanese come into the Isralei forum and Israelis into the Lebanese. People may criticize the other, but it's better to talk than not to talk at all.

And somehoe it is surprising as a Druze, coz in Israel we love our Druze! I even made a huge research paper of the Druze population in Israel at my university!

Great my freind, but no matter how much sweet talk, no matter how kind or good Jewish citizens are, it changes nothing in the fact that the concept, and acts of the country of Israel, i made of, and consitely refreshed with barbaric, aggressive,illegal,terrorist acts, against Lebanese, and Palestinians. No matter how much sweet talk you give me i nor any Southern Lebanese people will erase the treacherous memories we have of IDF. And furthermore, no matter what happens Israel will not be charged with the UN resolutions they broke( they have underlying broke the most UN resolutions by far, and statistically committed the worst crimes to humanity.)

In the future they will continue their barbaric acts, becuase the wolrd can only watch, they can not act.

"f Mexico occupies Texas; tortures, kills and isolates Texans from the rest of the United States, does all of this not provide a justified reason for resistance?"

fter Mexico leaves Texas becuase of the fierce resistance they encountered; does it make it justified for them vilate the UN resoultuion put in place every day, by violated Lebanese air space, Lebanese sea space, and by stealing Lebanese water. ???

-Like i said earlier the concept of our resistance is justified in every way possible. We will not put down our arms unitl Israel is held accountable for the its treacherous acts, and action is taken to prevent it from killing another innocent child. Until then Hezbollah will hold our arms, and fight, and make sure that the terrorsuit actys of Israel will never be repeated.


@JB-nl
ya habbibi, im glad that you are aware of how powerful Hezbollah is now. I'm glad to say Israel is too. :nuts:

All our problem in Lebanon is because of the bad system that france gave us in 1948 where the christians especially the moranite got almost all the power in Lebanon and that created a big gap in the lebanese sociaty, where some people
in this case the moranite had the privilege to got all the advantage from having full power in lebanon.
and others in this case the moslem were bad educated, bad treated and so on.

if there is no fairness and justice there is no country, it so simple
Lebanon collapsed....

and it's the same now if lebanon doesn't build a fair and just system, Lebanon will collapse sooner or later...

To completely understand why Lebanon collapsed in 1975 you must see the point of view from both sides.
When the Christians were in majority in 1943 they were handed the majority of the power. In tact with a growing Muslim community and migrating Christians the Muslims demanded more influence in political decisions.

When the protests became more aggressive the Christians felt more and more threatened. Christian militias armed themselves and so did the Muslims. When PLO grew stronger in Lebanon the Christians became more worried about their existence.
Tensions grew stronger between Palestinian and Christian fractions and when it escalated. The ball was in the Muslim militia’s hands, they had to choose side. Their frustration in lack of influence in political decisions they chose to battle on the Palestinian side against the Christian militias and the civil war sparked.

-Like i said earlier the concept of our resistance is justified in every way possible. We will not put down our arms unitl Israel is held accountable for the its treacherous acts, and action is taken to prevent it from killing another innocent child. Until then Hezbollah will hold our arms, and fight, and make sure that the terrorsuit actys of Israel will never be repeated.

Hizbullah claims to defend Lebanon, but is it? If it weren't for Hizbullah's actions in 2006 (and repeated provocations between 2000 and 2006), Israel would have never entered Lebanon that summer. As far as I can tell, the objective of resistance is self-defense and you can't legitimately claim that you are acting in self-defense when you provoke wars with your neighbors.

Aside from Hizbullah's lazy and fallacious use of the term 'resistance', I find it even more absurd that they claim to be defending Lebanon and its sovereignty. Hizbullah only 'protects' Lebanon from Israel, not from Syria, Iran or any other country. I wonder why this is. Perhaps Hizbullah doesn't see Iran and Syria as threats to Lebanese peace and sovereignty, but certainly a significant percent of people in Lebanon do. So whose interests is Hizbullah really representing? Lebanon's or 14 March? Lebanon's or Syria's/Iran's?

I'll tell you why Hizbullah needs its weapons and it has, in fact, very little to do with Israel, the Palestinians or the Sheba Farms. First and foremost, Hizbullah's weapons allow it to maintain power and influence in Lebanon that exceed that of the Lebanese government. The Lebanese government is like a puppet ensemble; Hizbullah is the puppet master, pulling all the strings behind the scenes in Lebanon. No group in power is going to voluntarily give up its power and influence. This is human nature. The 'resistance' is a cheap and flawed excuse for Hizbullah to retain its influence.

If Lebanon and Israel make peace, then what will Hizbullah's role be? What good is Hizbullah to Lebanon without its weapons? It will be like an emasculated dog. Peace between Lebanon and Israel will be good for everyone, but most especially for the people in south Lebanon who have suffered tremendously and for, perhaps the first time in their lives won't have to worry about the possibility of a tank or fighter jet coming to their town or village and killing them.

Both Hizbullah and the IDF have made plenty of egregious and unacceptable mistakes. We can continue to point fingers and hope for some sort of resolution to magically materialize or we can have peace in which everyone can benefit.

All our problem in Lebanon is because of the bad system that france gave us in 1948 where the christians especially the moranite got almost all the power in Lebanon and that created a big gap in the lebanese sociaty, where some people
in this case the moranite had the privilege to got all the advantage from having full power in lebanon.
and others in this case the moslem were bad educated, bad treated and so on.

if there is no fairness and justice there is no country, it so simple
Lebanon collapsed....

and it's the same now if lebanon doesn't build a fair and just system, Lebanon will collapse sooner or later...

That's not true most christians were educated in private schools, which admitted people from all sects. Maybe what you meant to say is that since they had more money they had better access to education.

Like i said before your ignorance, and level of knowledge of this subject is extremely low.(you though Hezbollah was created before Israel began its atrocities) In the following text i will decapitate and crush your response; and portray your low level of understanding of the subject.

Hizbullah claims to defend Lebanon, but is it? If it weren't for Hizbullah's actions in 2006 (and repeated provocations between 2000 and 2006), Israel would have never entered Lebanon that summer. As far as I can tell, the objective of resistance is self-defense and you can't legitimately claim that you are acting in self-defense when you provoke wars with your neighbors.

This is a absurd attempt of a reply. Firstly Mr. Chevre before 2006, and after 2006 Israel has broken the UN resolution almost every day. There violations have varied from

Flyovers(almost every week planes flying at very low altitudes)
Helicopter flyovers(helicopters flying at very low attitudes, intimidating and harassing civilians.)
Breaking the sound barrier with Jet Planes
Stealing a highly significant amount of a water from Lebanese.
Crossing into the border; and completing quick operations, over 12 people have been killed, and much more injured.
Constantly breaking into our sea space, and harassing our fishers.
Israeli soldiers firing at pro-Hezbollah supporters during gatherings.
RECENTLY:
www.yalibnan.com/.../israel-violates-lebanon-airspace/
www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG...381&show..
www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1A1-D8V8N8602.html
newsblaze.com/story/20080307172447payn.../topstory.html
mobile.globalpost.com/.../hezbollah-lebanon-volatile-border

Feel free to pm, me if you want more statistics my friend, I have about 700 articles about Israel doing things worse, and at the same level of what Hezbollah did. And considering the vile history of Israeli actions, and the amount of prisoners they have; who in their right mind would believe it is justified for such a response. But that is far from the point, if Hezbollah was to respond like Israel did for every violation, a new war would start every week. But in western media of course this is not covered. So i dont blame you for such a underdeveloped, response lacking much sense in it.

Aside from Hizbullah's lazy and fallacious use of the term 'resistance', I find it even more absurd that they claim to be defending Lebanon and its sovereignty. Hizbullah only 'protects' Lebanon from Israel, not from Syria, Iran or any other country. I wonder why this is. Perhaps Hizbullah doesn't see Iran and Syria as threats to Lebanese peace and sovereignty, but certainly a significant percent of people in Lebanon do. So whose interests is Hizbullah really representing? Lebanon's or 14 March? Lebanon's or Syria's/Iran's?

Are you kidding me man? Why doesn't Hezbollah protects itself from Iran. You think if you just spit some words out, and use a thesaurus, that your response makes sense. I know you have the mental capacity to answer your foolish statements that you posted!! Can you read English, don't you understand that ypour beloved country has committed the worst crimes in Humanity!! It looks you are replying fot\r the fun of replying. i find myself using this examples again, so maybe you can grasp some of it!!!!

"If Mexico occupies Texas; tortures, kills and isolates Texans from the rest of the United States, does all of this not provide a justified reason for resistance?"

After Mexico leaves Texas because of the fierce resistance they encountered; does it make it justified for them violate the UN resolutions put in place every day, by violated Lebanese air space, Lebanese sea space, and by stealing Lebanese water. ???

If Lebanon and Israel make peace, then what will Hizbullah's role be? What good is Hizbullah to Lebanon without its weapons? It will be like an emasculated dog. Peace between Lebanon and Israel will be good for everyone, but most especially for the people in south Lebanon who have suffered tremendously and for, perhaps the first time in their lives won't have to worry about the possibility of a tank or fighter jet coming to their town or village and killing them.

The last thing on Israel's mind is peace. It is a war-loving country a peace treaty is impossible until Israel is held accountable for the its treacherous acts, and action is taken to prevent it from killing another innocent child.

Both Hizbullah and the IDF have made plenty of egregious and unacceptable mistakes. We can continue to point fingers and hope for some sort of resolution to magically materialize or we can have peace in which everyone can benefit.

This quote angers me to an extreme extent. WHEN HAS HEZBOLLAH COMMITED ANY WAR CRIMES, YOU MAKE ME LAUGH!!!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Was hizbullah and Amal fighting Golani troops when they invaded beirut and destroyed media and please check videos on youtube if u forgot wat happened !!

Please let's admit that hizbullah is just another fascist Militia ....hungry for power money and and more power ....

and using the term resistance as a cover ....

^^ Whats wrong with u cant you talk in a civilized way, and provide some sense in your replies. Or do u just hold your opinions for the fun of it. It looks like u don't have much of a argument in that type of a reply. Are u begging me to admit something you know is not true when you say;

Please let's admit that hizbullah is just another fascist Militia ....hungry for power money and and more power ....

You are obviously in denial, and cannot see the picture beyond your conservative views.

Denial ? of what !?

Dude its a fact ! its not because iran and syria and hizbullah says its right ! it changes anything !! its wrong !

and of u want facts ...go to lebanese newspapers archives and check for yourself ! .....

do u think destroying lebanon ? and relocating thousands of lebanese is a victory !? ....victory over what !? ...its victory over lebanon only !

Dont deny that if IRAN didnt send the cash ppl would have been on the road and NOT HAPPY with it !

and what for !? thats the major questions!!!

Hamas talks about victory in GAZA what kinf of victory is over bodies and destroyed houses and thousands of dead civilians !

Hamas and hizbullah brainwash minds with SLOGANS of VICTORY ! a huge lie ... a victory is when u defeat ur enemy and destroy him ...and at make him suffer or shift the power from 1 end to another ! ...thats victory ....

when Russia defeated the germans ...thats a victory !! they reached BERLIN ....

@jader,

What solution(s) can Hizbullah offer you for the problems facing Lebanon and in particular, its Shia community? I mean, Hezb's idea of an economic stimulus package is to take handouts from Iran and to then whore this money off to desperate and destitute people. And what will happen once the Iranian regime falls? Who will pay for the hospitals, houses, schools, and utilities of Lebanon's Shia communities?

Moreover, do you really consider it be a victory when 1,000,000 Lebanese were internally displaced in 2006 and thousands were injured and over 1,000 people were killed? Is this the kind of future you want to look forward to?

What kind of future can Lebanese hope for when a war with Israel (started by Hizbullah) can begin at any moment? What kind of future can Lebanese hope for when one more Hizbullah 'mistake' could cause tens of thousands of more people to lose their homes and liveliehoods? Israel may have screwed over Lebanon on a number of occasions and I can't even begin to imagine how legitamately pissed off people in Lebanon must be towards Israel for what has happened in the past. But one thing I can tell you is that when Israel signs a peace agreement, it honors its end of the deal. Just ask Jordan and Egypt.

Perhaps you will disagree with me on this issue, but I believe that Lebanese, like anyone else, deserve the right to live in peace and to have hope in a better future. Hizbullah is an opiate, a drug, that clouds your mind and gives you a false sense of optimism, when in reality, it offers neither a solution nor a plan.

Hizbullah needs war and conflict with Israel, because otherwise it can't offer anything worthwhile for Lebanese.

^^ very well put

@jader

You add Above (@Chevre) to my Reply :)

@Mrwizard i give u a happy face too:) but ur reply is offtopic, and has nothing to do with the discusiion.

@Chevre

Firstly, i would like to begin, and say due to your arlaedy proven low understanding of the Lebanese-Israeli conflict, your knowledge of Lebanese, and what you tried to describe in your reply is highly unreferenced, and false. I ask you to please read this reply this time.

What solution(s) can Hizbullah offer you for the problems facing Lebanon and in particular, its Shia community? I mean, Hezb's idea of an economic stimulus package is to take handouts from Iran and to then whore this money off to desperate and destitute people. And what will happen once the Iranian regime falls? Who will pay for the hospitals, houses, schools, and utilities of Lebanon's Shia communities?

Again i am struggling to believe that you have read my reply!!! Firstly, if it was not for Hezbollah Southern Lebanon as of now; 2010 would still be ruins. Our women would still be raped, our men still decapitated, our families still in absolute treachery. Our goods would still be stolen, as well as our homes, farms, food and water still stolen and occupied. Our people would still be isolated from the rest of the country. The people of Southern Lebanon would still be in disbelief, shock, anxiety, depression, and complete financial wreck. Hezbollah has given us hope, pride, and bravery. It has made our greatest dreams come true, and has defeated what is considered to be the greatest military in the world. You say why is a significant portion of the Shia population financially modest? Maybe you haven't though of your military's agonizing 18 year occupation as a possible factor. Considering this i feel affended to an extreme level when a Israeli that is uneducated about this subject, that hasent even shed one tear in this conflict, come here and speak about the Shia people. You to melkart and Mrwizard you are arrogant to a extreme level. The Shia people has stood up, kicked out, and crushed the largest terrorist military in the world. And btw chevre, the money Hezbollah gives to home, and take care of it's people, comes from wealthy Shia's all over the world. The shia Lebanese people are some of the most successful people in the world. So not only did Hezbollah kick out the most aggressive people in the world from our country, but they also are now helping the those Lebanese people who got finanicially crushed in those 18 years, stand back on their feet, and regain their dignity. So dont, PLEASE DONT tell me how my people should, and should not live. Becasue your uneducated views ar once again shining, when you say things like that.

Moreover, do you really consider it be a victory when 1,000,000 Lebanese were internally displaced in 2006 and thousands were injured and over 1,000 people were killed? Is this the kind of future you want to look forward to?

:lol::lol:, this paragraph is pathetic. You really have the guts my friend, to say this is what i look forward to. Hezbollah is the only thing preventing us from facing your pathetic cowards of troops again. Hezbollah is the only front in the world that is preventing the further terrorist acts, of a terrorist army. And it is a victory, it is a victory because we using bravery and brains, stoped your occupation, and stopped your troops from doing SHIT to hezbollah. Your army is pathetic. Without Hezbollah our present and future would of been like the past. I have over and over reinforced that your military are is one with greed, evil, killing, and terrorism at its core. All Israeli's contradict themselves. They say that the old testament says to take Israel. Well does the old testanment say, to kill the most children and women, does it say to rape women in front of her children, does it say to decapitate men, our cause families and people complete and utter treachery. Does in say to steal and occupy homes, farms, food water, ruins, people's personal belongings, burn religious buildings and religious books, for pete's sake does it say to steal a whole population of their identity. Does it say to PURPOSELY provide people with the up most shock, anxiety, depression, sadness and complete financial wreck. NO MATTER HOW MUCH SWEET TALK YOU GIVE ME, your military and government will always, every day commit these crimes. They are a criminal army. THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. They need to seek peace with Palestinians. They need to seek peace with Lebanese. They need to be a peace-loving nation. Not a terrorism-loving nation. Peace is everything Southern Lebanese, and Palestains want, we want to stop being tortured and crushed by Israel. Hezbollah in Lebaon has given us that assurance. A peace treaty can be made, when the International Community, acts, and holds your terrorists accountable for the crimes they have committed. And halt these actions in the future, and FORCES ISRAEL to make peace. But that can never happen. It can never happen becuase Israel undoubtedly controls the world. Through AIPAC they control America. Through AIPAC they have destroyed two middle eastern countries and utilized them for there financially gain. My friend the question doent lie on Lebanon or Palestinian, IT LIES ON ISRAEL!! And just like you i hope one day Israel can be peaceful, and hold regular ties. And after all in the world we are the most culturally connected. We share tones of similarities. But it is up to the country you so blindly support to make the peace. Until then though, Hezbollah is waiting for the terrorists, and we will defeat the terrorists.

well than to each is his own lol.

---

so...someone today asked me why I hate israel. and how i should be more proactive like the strong lebanese christian brigitte gabriel
for one... I have never said I hated israel to this person
and secondly... I feel that if you purchased a dead cow with mad cow disease, and transplanted that brain in a human host, you would come up with a more intelligent being than brigitte gabriel.

What are your opinions on this "lebanese" lol.. I feel she is sooo simple minded in how she looks at things. And she is soo persistent always to blame radical islam, but then when referring to muslims of lebanon's north she calls them moderate muslims. A little discriminatory. Plus, she totally glorifies the christians of lebanon, which is wrong to do so as we all know EVERY SECT is to blame for lebanon's wars. The extent to which each sect is to blame does, however, vary.
And if it matters in this case, I am very anti hizballah, amal, any other armed militia that consists of ideologies. So its not that I dont wish those groups didnt exist, but I feel if I was her talking about the issue, I would sound more knowledged in the field...at the very least!

Here is an example video of hers: look up more, you will kill urself lol

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I've seen this b****, I 've never been more livid in my life. I was doing research for a script I was writing about muslim/christian coexistance and secularism and I had the unfortunate luck to watch a slew of her videos.

She is someone who really can't see outside their experience in the civil war. In some respects she is still living in this divided society and cannot look at what happened from far away. Its unfortunate, but we can find the likes of her in each sect I am sure.

Ah yes...Brigitte Gabriel. Anytime I see her, I sorta just smile because I can't take anything she says seriously, so I take it as a sort of entertainment.

unfortunatly there are alot of people from her generation that still think this way! Meaning It will take some time for Lebanon to look beyond this mentality.

I know some palestinian refugees in the netherlands, lots of them living in my town. Most of them from near Nablus. And i also know a few from lebanon, and they mostly see lebanon as their future for their family and not palestine.

I dont understand, (and i'm not trying to be rude) but why don't they see the Netherlands as their future? since they live there? or are they so keen on having their own land, and have picked lebanon as their new home sweet home to take for themselves?

naturalizing the palestinians will be catastrophic for the tiny nation that is Lebanon. Lebanon is too small geographically and demographicaly to absorb half a milion palestinians. and thats not to mention that the palestinians have a birth rate DOUBLE than that of the Lebanese. We can all say farewell to "Lebanon" and rename it Greater Palestine.

If something like that would happen in the Netherlands, with immigrants suddenly founding their own state within The Netherlands, pushing us to only 2 provinces and Belgium and Germany, we would also certainly fight!



Thats precisely what the palestinians tried to do in lebanon before the war. and the Lebanese fought back. I don't see why you want the Lebanese to give them citizenship now of all times??

naturalizing the palestinians will be catastrophic for the tiny nation that is Lebanon. Lebanon is too small geographically and demographicaly to absorb half a milion palestinians. and thats not to mention that the palestinians have a birth rate DOUBLE than that of the Lebanese. We can all say farewell to "Lebanon" and rename it Greater Palestine.

This is what happened to Jordan.

The only solution is to send them back to a new Republic of Palestine. Lebanon's refugees should be given priority over any other country.

Lebanon is the biggest rasist country in the world.
They treat palestenians like a chit, palestenians have no rights to do anything in Lebanon. absolutely nothing!!!!

You know why because the christians and the shiites in lebanon see them as a big danger for their demography.

Lebanon is the biggest rasist country in the world.
They treat palestenians like a chit, palestenians have no rights to do anything in Lebanon. absolutely nothing!!!!

You know why because the christians and the shiites in lebanon see them as a big danger for their demography.

Race has nothing to do with it, confessionalism maybe. We already gave 100 k palestinians citizenship. We did our part now it's someone elses turn to help alleviate their burden. Aside from their religious affiliation, you have to remeber that most of them are impoverished, this will be a great burden on Lebanon to take care of such a large population. remeber Lebanon has 4 million people only, and we are a middle income nation.
P.S: if you want to bring in 300k sunnis into lebanon than I suggest you bring in 300k shiites and 300k christians it's only fair.

Race has nothing to do with it, confessionalism maybe. We already gave 100 k palestinians citizenship. We did our part now it's someone elses turn to help alleviate their burden. Aside from their religious affiliation, you have to remeber that most of them are impoverished, this will be a great burden on Lebanon to take care of such a large population. remeber Lebanon has 4 million people only, and we are a middle income nation.
P.S: if you want to bring in 300k sunnis into lebanon than I suggest you bring in 300k shiites and 300k christians it's only fair.

if it's up to me, i will give them all the rights except the right to vote...
so they have less influence in political life...
if they got a passport they would probably left lebanon by now....
look to ain el hilwe camp, it's a ticking bomb.

I am a secular person, so all my comments has no religous background, only human

if it's up to me, i will give them all the rights except the right to vote...
so they have less influence in political life...
if they got a passport they would probably left lebanon by now....
look to ain el hilwe camp, it's a ticking bomb.

I am a secular person, so all my comments has no religous background, only human


something definitly needs to be done, no questions about that, but you need to keep in mind that we shouldn't be burdened by the cost of taking care off 300k refugees. either the international community should bare the cost, or someone else, who can afford it. Why should we suffer the consequesnces, and where will the money come from? We don't even have full sovereignity in some of these camps. the whole situation is politicised not only within Lebanon but the whole arab world. some countries are also placing pressure on Lebanon to maintain their status quo, in order to repatriate them. Not to mention any solution that is put forth will be vetoed by one party or another due to external influences. Lebanon actually has little say in the matter.

New Opinion: Bald hypocrisy
January 7, 2010

http://www.nowlebanon.com/ContentPictures/unifil-soldier-420-01710095942.jpg
A UNIFIL soldier observes an Israeli Humvee from the Lebanese side of the border with Israel. (AFP photo/Ali Dia)

According to the daily Haaretz, the Israeli government has accused Hezbollah of planting 10 “explosive devices” in South Lebanon, one kilometer from the Lebanese-Israeli border. The explosives, reportedly found by Spanish UNIFIL soldiers, were said to have been supplied by either Iran or Syria, and were designed “to prevent any Israeli Defense Forces [infiltration] patrol attempting to enter Lebanon.”

So just to make sure we are all singing off the same sheet here, Tel Aviv is complaining about anti-personnel devices placed 1 kilometer inside Lebanon that might pose a threat to any of its soldiers making an illegal incursion – or even full-scale invasion – into Lebanese sovereign territory.

Let’s hold that thought for just a second because there is more. The story broke one day after Israeli jets made another of their regular illegal sorties in Lebanese sovereign airspace, during which they staged mock air raids over much of the south of the country. Elsewhere, pilotless drones dropped flares.

It gets better. On the same day that Israel complained of the explosives, its Defense Ministry announced that it had perfected Iron Dome, an anti-missile system designed to protect it against attack from Hezbollah and Hamas. In other words, Israel can do whatever it wants to protect its own citizens, including invading another country’s airspace, but when a few kilos of TNT are found on the other side of the fence, the world is led to believe that the minute hand on the regional doomsday clock has moved one notch closer to the hour mark. Balder hypocrisy you would be hard pushed to find.

If those Lebanese who see Hezbollah’s weapons as an obstacle to full Lebanese statehood baulked at the Israeli government’s arrogance, imagine the reaction of those who live in the certainty that Hezbollah is the purest expression of Arab Resistance to Zionist aggression. If Hezbollah were a publically-listed company, its stock just rose several points.

In the meantime, all this Israeli bellyaching does not help promote Lebanese security. It creates tension and impedes the Lebanese government’s efforts to control all its territory by enhancing Hezbollah’s credentials as the only force – legitimate or not – that can protect Lebanon and the people of the south of the country in particular, from Israeli bullying. For every time Israeli jets terrorize the citizens of South Lebanon, and as long as Ghajar and the Shebaa Farms continue to be flashpoints of Israeli occupation, the South (and by extension the rest of Lebanon) will continue to simmer in a pot of instability.

Both Hezbollah and Israel are bound to abide by United Nations Security Council Resolution 1701, the ruling that ended the month-long conflict in the summer of 2006, which demands that Israel withdraw all its forces from Lebanon and that no Lebanese paramilitary forces – i.e. Hezbollah – operate south of the Litani River. If Hezbollah is operating south of the Litani – which it probably is – then any breaches of 1701 on the Lebanese side of the border are the responsibility of the Lebanese government, and not Israel, which clearly needs to get its own house in order, because each illegal over-flight is also in breach of 1701.

Then again Israel doesn’t really care. Like Hezbollah, it does what it wants, when it wants.

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=136899

Israel Tests Anti-Rocket System Designed to Repel Rockets of Hizbullah, Hamas
Israel has completed tests on its "Iron Dome" anti-missile system, designed to provide a response to the thousands of rockets fired at Israel by Hizbullah and Hamas, the Israeli defense ministry said.
The system, which can intercept short-range rockets and artillery shells, underwent its final tests in the past 48 hours, a statement said.

"For the first time, Iron Dome faced multiple threats simultaneously. All the threats were intercepted with complete success," the statement said.

The next phase in the development of the system was to integrate it into the army, the statement said.

Israel hopes the system will provide it with a means to dealing with rocket fire from Lebanon and from the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.

Palestinian militants have fired thousands of home-made rockets into southern Israel, prompting Israel's devastating assault on the Gaza Strip on December 27, 2008.

Hizbullah also fired some 4,000 rockets into northern Israel during a 2006 war with Israel, which now believes Hizbullah has an arsenal of some 40,000 rockets.

"Making Iron Dome operational will transform Israel's political and security situation on the northern and southern fronts," said Pinhas Buchris, the ministry's director general.(Naharnet-AFP)




Beirut, 06 Jan 10, 21:31

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=136899

That article is very misleading and innacurate.
here is the article from Haaretz: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=explosive+devices&itemNo=1140863


- a Spanish contingent of the United Nations peacekeeping forces last week discovered a large number of buried explosive devices in southern Lebanon about a kilometer from the border with Israel.
-According to sources in Israel, it is believed the devices were placed at the site by Hezbollah to strike at an Israel Defense Forces patrol that might try to enter Lebanon at the site, near the northern Israel town of Metula.


Your article has been twisted to make it seem like Israel is complaining about the explosives being planted there.

prosperity and strong economy in Lebanon is the big threat to Israel not Hizbollah.
Imagine that we had GPD wotrh 100 billions of dollars then it's so easy to buy or devellop our own defensiv system.
we have engineers and money...

I believe that Israel wants Hizbollah because
Hizbollah protects the northen border and will never dare to launch a rocket to israel... Hizbollah knows the consequences...

Hizbollah weackens the existence of sovreign government. regardless all the aims, it 's impossible to have two military power in one country.

Hizbollah weapons are only harm to Lebanon and nothing else...
if Hizbollah doesn't try to find a new way to deal with that, Hizbollah will collapse sooner or later, and not to mention all the problems occur in Dahie...

prosperity and strong economy in Lebanon is the big threat to Israel not Hizbollah.
Imagine that we had GPD wotrh 100 billions of dollars then it's so easy to buy or devellop our own defensiv system.
we have engineers and money...

I believe that Israel wants Hizbollah because
Hizbollah protects the northen border and will never dare to launch a rocket to israel... Hizbollah knows the consequences...

Hizbollah weackens the existence of sovreign government. regardless all the aims, it 's impossible to have two military power in one country.

Hizbollah weapons are only harm to Lebanon and nothing else...
if Hizbollah doesn't try to find a new way to deal with that, Hizbollah will collapse sooner or later, and not to mention all the problems occur in Dahie...

that's unfounded there is no evidence in what you are saying. If Lebanon was a rich country, Israel could benefit through trade etc. Besides we have a long way ahead of us to catch up with israel's economy and technological advances. Israel is a world leader in medical and high tech equipm,ent they have nothing to worry about. Not to mention there diaspora is larger and wealthier than there Lebanese counterpart.
P.S: Hisballah won't collapse as long as they are waiving there stick, and have continuous support of there communities.

that's unfounded there is no evidence in what you are saying. If Lebanon was a rich country, Israel could benefit through trade etc. Besides we have a long way ahead of us to catch up with israel's economy and technological advances. Israel is a world leader in medical and high tech equipm,ent they have nothing to worry about. Not to mention there diaspora is larger and wealthier than there Lebanese counterpart.
P.S: Hisballah won't collapse as long as they are waiving there stick, and have continuous support of there communities.

if we have a strong economy then the budget for LAF will be higher and will be easy to buy at least anti craft missiles...
at least we can prevent israel from violating our airspace.

the purpose of existence of Hizbollah is Israel, when Hizbollah can't do any military action against Israel.
what will happen with Hizbollah in terms of 10 years or maybe more.
what will happen with all already aged missiles...
what will happen with the military staff..

they need cause to exist...

Israel slams Lebanon again !!!!!

the biggest Hummus dish in the world , the national Israeli food, will be display tomorrow near Jerusalem, setting a new guinness world record. just 2 months after the previous record held in Lebanon. :cheer::cheer:

C'mon, logically how is Humus israeli when Israel didnt even exist until the 20th century. Most european jewery probably didnt even have access to any sort of lentils at all. You might break the world record but Humus will always be lebanese.