^^ +1 for lebnani , -10 for hebrewtext

Israel slams Lebanon again !!!!!

the biggest Hummus dish in the world , the national Israeli food, will be display tomorrow near Jerusalem, setting a new guinness world record. just 2 months after the previous record held in Lebanon. :cheer::cheer:

you are not only thieves of land you are thieves of food too.
Hummus is a lebanese dish.

Oh no not this hummus crap again! First of all it's an Arab Israeli town that is making the Hummus dish, meaning non jews. Secondly Hummus is not Lebanese, It's middle eastern. The Syrians and Palestinians are entitled to Hummus just as we are. Thirdly Hebrewtext is just trying to stir up some trouble so ignore him.

you are not only thieves of land you are thieves of food too.
Hummus is a lebanese dish.

First of all, that's not true. Many Israelis are either Arab or Jews from Arab countries, so hummus isn't a 'foreign' dish to them. And since their food is part of Israeli cuisine, hummus isn't foreign to Israeli cuisine. Plus, we deserve credit for being 'smart enough' (for lack of better term) to adopt good Lebanese/Arabic foods. ;)

Oh no not this hummus crap again! First of all it's an Arab Israeli town that is making the Hummus dish, meaning non jews. Secondly Hummus is not Lebanese, It's middle eastern. The Syrians and Palestinians are entitled to Hummus just as we are. Thirdly Hebrewtext is just trying to stir up some trouble so ignore him.

I think he's just making a light-hearted jab at the so-called 'Hummus war' between Lebanon and Israel.

if we have a strong economy then the budget for LAF will be higher and will be easy to buy at least anti craft missiles...
at least we can prevent israel from violating our airspace.

the purpose of existence of Hizbollah is Israel, when Hizbollah can't do any military action against Israel.
what will happen with Hizbollah in terms of 10 years or maybe more.
what will happen with all already aged missiles...
what will happen with the military staff..

they need cause to exist...

I agree we need to strengthen our military, but that has nothing to do with what you said before about Lebanon being a threat to Israel economicaly.

I think he's just making a light-hearted jab at the so-called 'Hummus war' between Lebanon and Israel.

I don't know him well enough, but based on prior posts he seems like a trouble maker to me.

if we have a strong economy then the budget for LAF will be higher and will be easy to buy at least anti craft missiles...
at least we can prevent israel from violating our airspace.

the purpose of existence of Hizbollah is Israel, when Hizbollah can't do any military action against Israel.
what will happen with Hizbollah in terms of 10 years or maybe more.
what will happen with all already aged missiles...
what will happen with the military staff..

they need cause to exist...

I am not sure if you understand this, but Israel(is) doesn't consider Lebanon to be an enemy. They consider Hizbullah and Palestinian extremist groups within Lebanon to be the enemies. Why would we want to destabilize the one other semi-progressive, forward-thinking country in the Middle East? I mean, just put yourselves in our shoes (as an economically developed nation with a liberal, Western-style democracy)- who would you prefer as a neighbor- a Syrian/Iranian-controlled puppet state or Lebanon?

If Lebanon chose to invest in its army, that would be understandable. But I think that focusing military efforts on Israel is counterproductive, since we neither see Lebanon as an enemy or as a 'potential colony' (as opposed to Syria, for instance).

If Lebanon was a rich country, Israel could benefit through trade etc.

Agreed. Even though Israel has a way of screwing over Lebanon from time to time, I think Israeli people recognize that having an economically strong Lebanon is better than having an economically weak Lebanon. Poverty among Lebanese, and especially Shia, is one of Hizbullah's best political assets (or so I would think).

prosperity and strong economy in Lebanon is the big threat to Israel not Hizbollah.
Imagine that we had GPD wotrh 100 billions of dollars then it's so easy to buy or devellop our own defensiv system.
we have engineers and money...



I think it's completely the opposite. I think an economically strong and prosperous Lebanon would be in Israel's best interests. See my previous post just above this one.

I don't know him well enough, but based on prior posts he seems like a trouble maker to me.

Maybe you're right. I don't know him myself. But it just seems funny to me this whole "hummus war" between Lebanon and Israel.

Oh no not this hummus crap again! First of all it's an Arab Israeli town that is making the Hummus dish, meaning non jews. Secondly Hummus is not Lebanese, It's middle eastern. The Syrians and Palestinians are entitled to Hummus just as we are. Thirdly Hebrewtext is just trying to stir up some trouble so ignore him.

Melkart you couldn't have said it better. It's not DISTINCTLY Lebanese, Syrians and Palestinians eat it too (it's really a levantine dish). And to HebrewText, it's being set by your second class citizens, the Arab Israelis who are Palestinians so don't come on this forum just to try to smeer things in people's faces

Chevre

I understand your will to normalize relations between Israel and Lebanon. I can see how both countries would benefit from each other. It would be a dream to be able to drive from Beirut to Jerusalem..

But…..
You must understand that the Lebanese people especially those from the south are scarred for life since Israel began raping Lebanon. Deep scares as a result of an 18-year long occupation won’t heal in a short time. The Lebanese people aren’t ready for a peace deal, people from the south see Hezbollah as a pride because they felt liberated, and the scarring stopped.

Israel could always change. A peace deal between Palestinians and Israel and Syria for that matter would do much. The Lebanese people would open their eyes and see Israel from another angel. The Arab nations would normalize their relations with Israel and Lebanon would do the same.

As for Hezbollah, they will never be weaken until Israel change! When Israel change, the people of Lebanon change. Only the people of Lebanon can weaken Hezbollah nothing else.
But as far as Israel is not changing policies I fully understand why Hezbollah is on the southern border and why they’re supported.

And to HebrewText, it's being set by your second class citizens, the Arab Israelis who are Palestinians so don't come on this forum just to try to smeer things in people's faces

2nd class citizens my a$$. This is one of the most ignorant and false statements I've ever seen in quite some time. In only the last two or three years, Israel has had: a Maronite supreme court justice; a Druze president; and a Muslim envoy to the US. Israeli universities employ affirmative action policies that give Arabs a leg up towards gaining admission (versus non-Arabs). Most Arabs in Israel probably enjoy a higher standard of living/quality of life than Arabs in most other MENA countries. So if you want to call them 2nd class citizens, just know that they live better than most 1st class citizens in MENA.

@ R9_

Point well taken. I actually heard this before, regarding why people in South Lebanon hate Israel. BUT, I also heard from people who've been in South Lebanon between 1982 and 2000, that things weren't so bad as they're made to be. That Israelis and Lebanese did some trade and had some amicable interactions (if I may use this word).

But what do you mean by "change"? In what way Israel should change? Be specific, please. I am interested. And what about Lebanon? What can Lebanon do?

^^


SLA-members cooperated and worked for the Israelis in Lebanon.

What I mean by change, simple. Israel show strong intentions for peace, work hard to change their reputation as a war-hungry state that seeks to confiscate more and more land by ethnic cleanse Palestinians.

I’m only saying,,,,, this is how many people critical of Israel all over the world, see the picture. ..

^^ U just summarized the esssay i posted on page 187, well said :)

At hebrewtext, i have no problem with Isralis eating Humuss!! But it is absoulelty LOW, and ARROGANT when you call it your national food. You have nothing to do with hummus. You have stolen from the Palestains just as you have stolen their happiness, integrity, sense of belonging and homes. This subject truly makes me sick. But at the end of the day what can you except of Israel. Just another example of how aggression, hate, and treachery is at their seed. And you say u want peace!! pshhh thats a far away dream for suffering Lebanese and Palestinians.

Just another example of how aggression, hate, and treachery is at their seed. And you say u want peace!! pshhh thats a far away dream for suffering Lebanese and Palestinians.

... its only hummus Jader :chill:

2nd class citizens my a$$. This is one of the most ignorant and false statements I've ever seen in quite some time. In only the last two or three years, Israel has had: a Maronite supreme court justice; a Druze president; and a Muslim envoy to the US. Israeli universities employ affirmative action policies that give Arabs a leg up towards gaining admission (versus non-Arabs). Most Arabs in Israel probably enjoy a higher standard of living/quality of life than Arabs in most other MENA countries. So if you want to call them 2nd class citizens, just know that they live better than most 1st class citizens in MENA.

Chevre I know they do enjoy alot of rights compared to what people in Egypt or Syria suffer (especially in education and healthcare), but they represent %20 of the population and that is not reflected in the Knesset, and Arab towns are still quite impoverished. And let's face it no Arab will ever head the Knesset. How can Arab head a Hebrew state. At the end of the day it's a state only for Jews, any other ethnicity or religion growing in number or power is a threat to its identity.

At hebrewtext, i have no problem with Isralis eating Humuss!! But it is absoulelty LOW, and ARROGANT when you call it your national food. You have nothing to do with hummus.

But hummus is our national food!!! We eat it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And some would argue that Israeli hummus is #1! And btw, there are Jews/Israelis who brought hummus with them from Arab countries, including Lebanon. So we didn't steal 'hummus' from anyone. And no one in Israel claims that hummus was invented by Israelis. We're not that stupid...

... its only hummus Jader :chill:

Lol... right? :lol:

Chevre I know they do enjoy alot of rights compared to what people in Egypt or Syria suffer (especially in education and healthcare), but they represent %20 of the population and that is not reflected in the Knesset,

That's not really true. Arabs represent ~20-25% of Israel's population, which according to Israel, includes East Jerusalem. They hold about 11% of the seats in the Knesset (13 out of 120 seats). Israel's population is about 7 million people. Of these, approximately 1.7 million are Arab. About 220,000 Israeli Arabs live in East Jerusalem, and by and large, they tend not to vote (so as not to give recognition to Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem). So really, we are talking about 1.5 million Arabs in Israel who might potentially vote (~21% of Israel's total population). So how to account for this discrepancy? First of all, Arabs tend to have much younger demographics than the Jews. So a significant % of them are too young to vote. I also suppose that there are cultural and political factors which might also come into play. There are several Arab political parties in Israel, which are vehemently critical of Israel and its 'policies'. Moreover, Israel isn't a dictatorship, no one puts a gun to a person's head and tells him to vote or not to vote. It is up to an individual to make this decision.


and Arab towns are still quite impoverished.

So are many non-Arab towns... And by the way, some Arab towns are actually very wealthy. It differs from town to town.


And let's face it no Arab will ever head the Knesset. How can Arab head a Hebrew state. At the end of the day it's a state only for Jews, any other ethnicity or religion growing in number or power is a threat to its identity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majalli_Wahabi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majalli_Wahabi

He was only there Temporarily

Chevre,

You should look at some neutral independent sources. Just because there are a few Israeli Arab success stories, it doesn't mean that's an accurate picture that reflects Israeli Arabs as a whole. Israeli Arabs face massive discrimination in Israel and this was even publicly stated by your former leader, Ehud Olmert, back in 2008.

This massive discrimination is evident by Israel's attempt to ban Nakba commemorations. Your extreme right-wing foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, would love nothing but to strip Israeli Arabs of their citizenship and deport them to neighboring Arab countries.

That article is very misleading and innacurate.
here is the article from Haaretz: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=explosive+devices&itemNo=1140863


- a Spanish contingent of the United Nations peacekeeping forces last week discovered a large number of buried explosive devices in southern Lebanon about a kilometer from the border with Israel.
-According to sources in Israel, it is believed the devices were placed at the site by Hezbollah to strike at an Israel Defense Forces patrol that might try to enter Lebanon at the site, near the northern Israel town of Metula.


Your article has been twisted to make it seem like Israel is complaining about the explosives being planted there.

No, the article has not been twisted. Israel DID complain about the explosives on the Lebanese side of the border and "commended" UNIFIL for finding and disarming them. This analysis is spot on and highlights Israel's hypocrisy.

Funny how you are trying to find an excuse to defend the Israeli excesses against Lebanon. You're no different from the Hezbollah/Syria/Iran apologists.

KK i want everybody to read this and see what you guys think of this.
http://www.thewestsidestory.net/article/Politics/Political_Mud/2010_will_witness_the_most_destructive_wars_in_modern_history/19267

He was only there Temporarily

So what? If Israel were so anti-Arab, it wouldn't have even allowed him to become, temporarily, president of the country. Besides, as I mentioned, there are other powerful/influential Arabs in Israel including a Maronite supreme court justice and Muslim envoys of Israel to the US and one or two other countries.

Like i said before i dont care if you eat our hummus 24/7, we just care when you market it as Israeli food. And this is happening. Im suprised that you are not aware of alot of things your goverment does.

"KK i want everybody to read this and see what you guys think of this.
http://www.thewestsidestory.net/arti..._history/19267"

Thats a very unprofessional article. He s implies everything. Israel can not defeat hezbollah, in November they confirmed that Hezbolah know every detail about the Israeli army, and they even confirmed that they will undoubtly lose in any future wars. Furthermore, they fail to cite, and explain their theroys and dont provide any sense to their aurguments.

Like i said before i dont care if you eat our hummus 24/7, we just care when you market it as Israeli food. And this is happening. Im suprised that you are not aware of alot of things your goverment does.

If Hummus is made in Israel and/or by Israelis then why shouldn't it be marketed abroad as Israeli hummus (i.e., as Israeli food)? Would you want Israelis to market their hummus as Lebanese hummus?

I have a suprise for you Chevre another aggressive violation by Israel, if we where like you we would start a war right now.

Israel cuts of trees on Lebanese Land in front of the UNIFIL's eyes

Lebanese Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri criticized some Lebanese groups for raising the issue of UN Resolution 1559 while ignoring Israel’s non-commitment to every international resolution related to the zionist state. Speaking to Assafir daily, last Tuesday, Berri said he ‘has a surprise for those who still believe in the validity of UNSCR 1559,” without elaborating.

UN Security Council Resolution 1559 stipulates the disarmament of all militias in Lebanon and the withdrawal of all foreign forces. The resistance question in Lebanon has been agreed on by the government to be dealt with as an internal issue within the framework of national dialogue. The policy statement of PM Saad Hariri’s government gave legitimacy to the arms of the resistance as a need to defend Lebanon from Israeli threats. Moreover, Syrian forces have pulled out of Lebanon in 2005, thus rendering UNSCR 1559 no longer valid.

“The parties that are calling for a national defense strategy with the hope of disarming the resistance are mistaken,” Berri told Assafir.

Foreign Minister Ali Shami had earlier summoned Arab and Western Ambassadors in Lebanon to inform them that Lebanon officially considers resolution 1559 invalid. FM Shami’s move drew criticism by the March 14 group.

The March 14 group often turns a blind eye on Israeli violation of the sovereignty of Lebanon, unless it comes under pressure by the magnitude of criticism by the media.

On Thursday, Israeli occupation forces, backed by military vehicles used an agricultural tractor equipped with a big electric saw to cut off trees on the Lebanese part of the border with occupied Palestine. Al-Manar’s correspondent videotaped the violation and took shots showing how the Israelis continued to cut off the trees while UNIFIL soldiers were just watching a few meters away. The United Nations Interim Forces in south Lebanon often take tough measures in case any Lebanese gets near the barbed wire on the border, including journalists.

The new Israeli provocation constitutes a breach of UNSCR 1701 that ended hostilities during the 2006 Israeli aggression on Lebanon.
The UNIFIL should have taken measures to stop Israel from violating the resolution and trespassing on Lebanese land.


http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/WebsiteImages/PicturesFolder/80281c7c-0396-4053-a973-1fe654be5c36_top.jpg

http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/WebsiteImages/PicturesFolder/8719af7f-6aaf-42d3-89e4-7f190230c686_top.jpg

http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/WebsiteImages/PicturesFolder/434f47d5-175d-4d39-a255-ff37e1bd6066_top.jpg


U guys are pathetic.

Israel cuts of trees on Lebanese Land in front of the UNIFIL's eyes


I am not familiar with this. But it makes sense to me why they would do it. And if you put yourself in Israel's shoes, you'd understand it too.

It would make sens if these trees were on the israeli side. The fact that they simply crossed the borders is a violation to 1701.

^^ People are forgetting that Hizballah is in violation of 1701 all the time and this very second. Why? Because they refuse to disarm and continue to receive weapons via Syria. We have no credibility when accusing Israel of violations because of our own lack of control over this militia.

Cutting trees on our border is equivalent to illegal overflights into our airspace. We all know that. They obviously cut the trees so they can monitor the border. Either way these minute violations don't justify an armed group outside the control of the state. Israel will continue violating resolution 1701 as long as hisb does so. I don't see UNIFIL stopping hisb from violating such acts. It works both ways UNIFIL is impartial.

About the Hummus......
I know it's a Middle Eastern food, and we should see it as something which unites us. Hummus made in Israel, is Israeli Hummus - though I think most Israelis just think of it as Hummus not some sort of national pride crusade. And if I buy Hummus in London, if this is made in Israel logically it will say "Made in Israel", "Made in Lebanon" if it is from Lebanon.
By the way, I love Lebanese cuisine!

About the Arab Israelis....there may be tensions......but they are our Arabs, they are Israelis and I would defend their rights as Israeli citizens in the very unlikely case that they would be stripped of their citizenship. To strip them from their citizenship just like that, would mean the end of democracy in Israel, in my opinion.

It's official, Israel doubled Lebanon's record for the world's largest hummus. And so the hummus war continues...

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1141319.html

Israel has taken the upper hand in a new kind of Mideast conflict, one in which bullets are replaced by chickpeas.

Using a satellite dish on loan from a nearby broadcast station, cooks in an Arab town near Jerusalem whipped up more than four metric tons of hummus, the chickpea paste that is a staple - and a near-religious obsession - for many in the Middle East.

The cooks doubled the previous record for the world's biggest serving of hummus, set in October by cooks in Lebanon. That record broke an earlier Israeli record and briefly put Lebanon ahead.

Hundreds of jubilant Israelis, a mix of Arabs and Jews, gathered around the giant dish in the town of Abu Ghosh on Friday, many of them dancing as a singer performed an Arabic love song to the beige chickpea paste.

Just after midday, an adjudicator sent from London by Guinness World Records,Jack Brockbank, confirmed that the Israeli chefs now held the record. He put the exact amount of hummus in the giant dish at 9,017 pounds (4,090kilograms).

Lebanon and Israel have officially been at war for six decades. Three months ago, when the Lebanese chefs prepared their record-breaking dish, they called it a move to reaffirm ownership of a Lebanese food they claimed had been appropriated by Israelis.

The event organizer in Lebanon, Fady Jreissat, said "Lebanon is trying to win a battle against Israel by registering this new Guinness World Record and telling the whole world that hummus is a Lebanese product, it's part of our traditions."

The driving force behind the Israeli hummus dish, Jawdat Ibrahim, an Israeli Arab restaurateur who became a millionaire after winning a lottery in the U.S., played down the conflict, saying competition is a healthy thing.

"Today we have the hummus. Hopefully, we will have the talks for peace in our region," he said.

The hummus war has been simmering for some time. In 2008, a group of Lebanese businessmen announced plans to sue Israel to stop it from marketing hummus and other regional dishes as Israeli.

One of the businessmen involved in the planned suit, Fadi Abboound, said, "It is not enough they are stealing our land. They are also stealing our civilization and our cuisine."

Many in the Arab world see Israel as a Western implant in the region, though a majority of Israel's population is of Middle Eastern and North African descent. The chefs responsible for Friday's record were from the country's one-fifth Arab minority.

On Friday, a newscaster on Israel's Army Radio referred to the hummus clash as the third Lebanon war.

Can't you read? It says NO POLITICS

Can't you read? It says NO POLITICS

Can't you use your head? HUMMUS IS NOT POLITICS :bash: :lol: :cheers:

In this case it is. --> [EAYOR]

In this case it is. --> [EAYOR]


:storm:

Beiruti and melkart, into nise amhasbene, u are ignorant and arrogant, ur views are plan evil!!!! Allah alekhon, it makes me depressed that you call yourselves lebanese. But i also tell u u are ONE OF THE EXTREME VERY FEW THAT HAVE YOUR EXTREMIST VIEWS. Saad harriri does not even come close to your views, people like u start wars, people like u who have such closed minds, and only care about yourselves, because you dont consider Southen Lebanese people to be Lebanese, with those words. Im glad no politcian thinks like u in this country, and less then 1 percent of the lebanese people think like u. Walla n3asara bit khari alhalo

And Israel each and every day is a violation of the will and words of god, , against the rules of the United Nations, and most importantly against humanity it self. Melkart and Beiruti i dont get how some one can get so extreme as u guys. Did u even read what i wrote.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY MELKART ISRAEL HAS NO RIGHT IN ANY BOOK, IN ANY LAW TO CROSS, AND CUT DOWN TREES. Also just to tell you Israel has a major habit of cutting down trees. The first thing they did in 2006 was burn all of the olive trees in southern lebanon, they burned every single tree in southern lebanon. which caused MAJOR finacialburden on Shia, and Christians in Southern Lebanon. mish 3aref 3aimtan badkon learn Israel balad bit khari 3ahala

And Israel each and every day is a violation of the will and words of god, , against the rules of the United Nations, and most importantly against humanity it self. Melkart and Beiruti i dont get how some one can get so extreme as u guys. Did u even read what i wrote.

Remember, we (Israel) are God's chosen people. So we can't be a violation of God's will. ;) You're going to hell. Just because I said it. :cheers:

God's chosen people? I suggest you read the Quraan so you know how you are called in it.


Random thing: I love to walk in olive fields in South Lebanon =)

Beiruti and melkart, into nise amhasbene, u are ignorant and arrogant, ur views are plan evil!!!! Allah alekhon, it makes me depressed that you call yourselves lebanese. But i also tell u u are ONE OF THE EXTREME VERY FEW THAT HAVE YOUR EXTREMIST VIEWS. Saad harriri does not even come close to your views, people like u start wars, people like u who have such closed minds, and only care about yourselves, because you dont consider Southen Lebanese people to be Lebanese, with those words. Im glad no politcian thinks like u in this country, and less then 1 percent of the lebanese people think like u. Walla n3asara bit khari alhalo


Please refrain from personal attacks. There is no need to insult us because you disagree with our views. SSC-Lebanon is a democratic community and we have a right to express our opinions civilly. Consider this a warning.

For the record, I was not defending or justifying Israel's actions. I was simply stating that both countries are equally in violation of 1701.

..

Jader instead of spending all that time insulting us, you could have debated us on some of the topics above. If you believe in yourself, and know in your heart that you are right, than show me the light! I give you reasons why I think I am right, and you should rebuttle by telling me your plight!

There is no need to get offended, sometimes taking things so seriously and having too much pride can fire back at you. You have to seperate your emotional views from your reasonable ones, otherwise we all get mad and nothing gets accomplished.

I was simply stating that both countries are equally in violation of 1701.

But they're not!

And when will you(plural) understand that Hezbollah is much more than a militia?

melkart: chou reyeeee2

It's official, Israel doubled Lebanon's record for the world's largest hummus. And so the hummus war continues...

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1141319.html

It's only a matter of time, we will kick your ass! :)

Until than may all the Lebanese and Israeli Hummus brands be top sellers around the world lol.

It's only a matter of time, we will kick your ass! :)

Until than may all the Lebanese and Israeli Hummus brands be top sellers around the world lol.

It's a deal! You guys bring the hummus and tabouleh, we'll bring the pita and the shawarma. :cheers:

But they're not!

And when will you(plural) understand that Hezbollah is much more than a militia?

melkart: chou reyeeee2

True. It's also the largest welfare recipient in Lebanon.

God's chosen people? I suggest you read the Quraan so you know how you are called in it.


Random thing: I love to walk in olive fields in South Lebanon =)


Look, if I believed in the Quran, then I wouldn't be your neighbor. So as far as you are concerned, you should just understand that we see ourselves as G-d's chosen people, even if the Quran might disagree with this. lol :lol: (BTW, in case you didn't pick up on my sarcasm, most people here in Israel don't seriously believe this 'chosen people' nonsense)

Random thing: I am pleased to know that you love to walk in olive fields in South Lebanon.

And when will you(plural) understand that Hezbollah is much more than a militia?

...it's also an ideology with a political agenda.

Ok...I think I am loosing my sanity here, I read this article over and over and over again looking for this so called "surprise" which you spoke of. I think you must be reffering to Israel's daily transgressions (this time being trespassing on Lebanese territory)? Now here is where my question comes in place...HOW IN THE WORLD IS THAT A SURPRISE????

I have a suprise for you Chevre another aggressive violation by Israel, if we where like you we would start a war right now.

Israel cuts of trees on Lebanese Land in front of the UNIFIL's eyes

Lebanese Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri criticized some Lebanese groups for raising the issue of UN Resolution 1559 while ignoring Israel’s non-commitment to every international resolution related to the zionist state. Speaking to Assafir daily, last Tuesday, Berri said he ‘has a surprise for those who still believe in the validity of UNSCR 1559,” without elaborating.

UN Security Council Resolution 1559 stipulates the disarmament of all militias in Lebanon and the withdrawal of all foreign forces. The resistance question in Lebanon has been agreed on by the government to be dealt with as an internal issue within the framework of national dialogue. The policy statement of PM Saad Hariri’s government gave legitimacy to the arms of the resistance as a need to defend Lebanon from Israeli threats. Moreover, Syrian forces have pulled out of Lebanon in 2005, thus rendering UNSCR 1559 no longer valid.

“The parties that are calling for a national defense strategy with the hope of disarming the resistance are mistaken,” Berri told Assafir.

Foreign Minister Ali Shami had earlier summoned Arab and Western Ambassadors in Lebanon to inform them that Lebanon officially considers resolution 1559 invalid. FM Shami’s move drew criticism by the March 14 group.

The March 14 group often turns a blind eye on Israeli violation of the sovereignty of Lebanon, unless it comes under pressure by the magnitude of criticism by the media.

On Thursday, Israeli occupation forces, backed by military vehicles used an agricultural tractor equipped with a big electric saw to cut off trees on the Lebanese part of the border with occupied Palestine. Al-Manar’s correspondent videotaped the violation and took shots showing how the Israelis continued to cut off the trees while UNIFIL soldiers were just watching a few meters away. The United Nations Interim Forces in south Lebanon often take tough measures in case any Lebanese gets near the barbed wire on the border, including journalists.

The new Israeli provocation constitutes a breach of UNSCR 1701 that ended hostilities during the 2006 Israeli aggression on Lebanon.
The UNIFIL should have taken measures to stop Israel from violating the resolution and trespassing on Lebanese land.


http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/WebsiteImages/PicturesFolder/80281c7c-0396-4053-a973-1fe654be5c36_top.jpg

http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/WebsiteImages/PicturesFolder/8719af7f-6aaf-42d3-89e4-7f190230c686_top.jpg

http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/WebsiteImages/PicturesFolder/434f47d5-175d-4d39-a255-ff37e1bd6066_top.jpg


U guys are pathetic.

^^ People are forgetting that Hizballah is in violation of 1701 all the time and this very second. Why? Because they refuse to disarm and continue to receive weapons via Syria. We have no credibility when accusing Israel of violations because of our own lack of control over this militia.


Come on man! Wake up, smell the fresh ground coffee!

We all knew Hezbollah wasn't going to comply with a resolution which called for its disarmament, so why even discuss it? Hezbollah clearly stated that disarming was out of the picture, so this whole resolution is just a little joke.

Never in Lebanese history has a resolution ever been successful. I find no logic in the disarmement of Hezbollah (in concern with Israel and not Lebanon). Israel will continue with its daily transgressions even with Hezbollah disarmed, and let us not forget that Israel has randomly surprised us this year with attacks on Palestinian territories, we know what they are capable of surprising us with one morning. So why stand there completely unprotected? Do you really think Hezbollah is jeopardizing our wellbeing? Had it not been for Hezbollah we would have no Lebanon!!!

Please, don't even mention the fact that 1701 called for the disarming of Hezbollah, we know this. We also know that it wasn't that hard for the UN (under Israeli pressure) to document this and make it an official resolution. Moreover, we also know that the UN never did anything about Israel's countless massacres. So are they anyone to speak? They have lost their credibility to speak out of justice.

If we could discuss the arms on the national level, then be my honor (leave this too for another debate), but did you really expect Hezbollah to even cooperate with the likes of these laws? After successfully defending lebanon for 34 days with all their might (please leave the origin of the conflict for another debate), and quite possibly winning the war, Hezbollah is to disarm? I've never seen a demand more foolish than this. With what trust? What certainty? What protection? Is Hezbollah to do such a demeaning act? Such an act, were Hezbollah to comply with, would just be an intimation to a Hezbollah defeat, and Israeli victory.

After successfully defending Lebanon for 34 days with all their might<--------- i didn't see any defense ! ....just some guerrilla fights in addition to rockets fired randomly ( or not )

and on the other hand ! 1 million lebanese relocated ! ....Buildings ! and airport and bridges ,all infrastructure destroyed !!

i didnt see any DEFENSE or so called Victory in that !:)

and Yes ! Britte Gabriel said it right about Hizbullah ( only Hizbullah not ISLAM )

Come on man! Wake up, smell the fresh ground coffee!

We all knew Hezbollah wasn't going to comply with a resolution which called for its disarmament, so why even discuss it? Hezbollah clearly stated that disarming was out of the picture, so this whole resolution is just a little joke.

Never in Lebanese history has a resolution ever been successful. I find no logic in the disarmement of Hezbollah (in concern with Israel and not Lebanon).

Why can't Hizbullah transfer its weapons to the LAF and integrate its fighters into the LAF? I mean, both groups are fighting for Lebanon, right?

Germans trace Hezbollah-cocaine smuggling money trail
Published: 9 Jan 10

Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100109-24465.html

German investigators are uncovering the drug-smuggling business of the Syrian-backed Lebanese militant organisation Hezbollah, moving cocaine from Beirut into Europe via Frankfurt airport.
A report in Der Spiegel magazine this weekend says initial suspicions that Hezbollah was raising funds by smuggling cocaine were raised in May 2008 when around €8.7 million in cash was found in the luggage of four Lebanese men at Frankfurt airport.

A further €500,000 was found in the flat of one of the suspects, in the Rhineland Pfalz town of Speyer.

Two Lebanese men were arrested in October 2009 when customs officers and federal criminal police agents raided a house in Speyer.

The magazine says the suspicion is that family members have been regularly moving millions of euros raised in the European cocaine trade, via Frankfurt to Beirut. Those receiving the money in Lebanon are said to be members of a family with contacts with the highest levels of Hezbollah command including leader Hassan Nasrallah.

A close relation of the suspects has rejected all the allegations, the magazine says.

^^Yes but at least they have morals. Lol

Why can't Hizbullah transfer its weapons to the LAF and integrate its fighters into the LAF? I mean, both groups are fighting for Lebanon, right?

Because only one is fighting for Lebanon.

Come on man! Wake up, smell the fresh ground coffee!

We all knew Hezbollah wasn't going to comply with a resolution which called for its disarmament, so why even discuss it? Hezbollah clearly stated that disarming was out of the picture, so this whole resolution is just a little joke.

Never in Lebanese history has a resolution ever been successful. I find no logic in the disarmement of Hezbollah (in concern with Israel and not Lebanon). Israel will continue with its daily transgressions even with Hezbollah disarmed, and let us not forget that Israel has randomly surprised us this year with attacks on Palestinian territories, we know what they are capable of surprising us with one morning. So why stand there completely unprotected? Do you really think Hezbollah is jeopardizing our wellbeing? Had it not been for Hezbollah we would have no Lebanon!!!

Please, don't even mention the fact that 1701 called for the disarming of Hezbollah, we know this. We also know that it wasn't that hard for the UN (under Israeli pressure) to document this and make it an official resolution. Moreover, we also know that the UN never did anything about Israel's countless massacres. So are they anyone to speak? They have lost their credibility to speak out of justice.

If we could discuss the arms on the national level, then be my honor (leave this too for another debate), but did you really expect Hezbollah to even cooperate with the likes of these laws? After successfully defending lebanon for 34 days with all their might (please leave the origin of the conflict for another debate), and quite possibly winning the war, Hezbollah is to disarm? I've never seen a demand more foolish than this. With what trust? What certainty? What protection? Is Hezbollah to do such a demeaning act? Such an act, were Hezbollah to comply with, would just be an intimation to a Hezbollah defeat, and Israeli victory.


So you are saying that you have no respect for UN resolutions and do not support the implemenation of 1701? Thank you for confirming what I knew about March 8 supporters.

Germans trace Hezbollah-cocaine smuggling money trail
Published: 9 Jan 10

Online: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100109-24465.html

German investigators are uncovering the drug-smuggling business of the Syrian-backed Lebanese militant organisation Hezbollah, moving cocaine from Beirut into Europe via Frankfurt airport.
A report in Der Spiegel magazine this weekend says initial suspicions that Hezbollah was raising funds by smuggling cocaine were raised in May 2008 when around €8.7 million in cash was found in the luggage of four Lebanese men at Frankfurt airport.

A further €500,000 was found in the flat of one of the suspects, in the Rhineland Pfalz town of Speyer.

Two Lebanese men were arrested in October 2009 when customs officers and federal criminal police agents raided a house in Speyer.

The magazine says the suspicion is that family members have been regularly moving millions of euros raised in the European cocaine trade, via Frankfurt to Beirut. Those receiving the money in Lebanon are said to be members of a family with contacts with the highest levels of Hezbollah command including leader Hassan Nasrallah.

A close relation of the suspects has rejected all the allegations, the magazine says.

The ol Der Spiegel...we meet again...last time I saw you was during the elections...

So you are saying that you have no respect for UN resolutions and do not support the implemenation of 1701? Thank you for confirming what I knew about March 8 supporters.


Ya Khaye where in the hell did I say that. But what I am saying is, why should we be the good too-shoes and fully follow something that is not being respected by the other side.

Melkart make do u have sort-term memory loss. My reply's unlike yours are full of sense if you forget i will re-post it at the bottom of the page.

Chevre your ideologies are the stupid things i have heard. In no way possible are you god's chosen people. Your country has committed the worst terrorist crime in humanity, and furthermore has committed the most violent sick acts to Lebanese and Palestinian's.

@Mrwizard i give u a happy face too but ur reply is offtopic, and has nothing to do with the discusiion.

@Chevre

Firstly, i would like to begin, and say due to your arlaedy proven low understanding of the Lebanese-Israeli conflict, your knowledge of Lebanese, and what you tried to describe in your reply is highly unreferenced, and false. I ask you to please read this reply this time.

Quote:
What solution(s) can Hizbullah offer you for the problems facing Lebanon and in particular, its Shia community? I mean, Hezb's idea of an economic stimulus package is to take handouts from Iran and to then whore this money off to desperate and destitute people. And what will happen once the Iranian regime falls? Who will pay for the hospitals, houses, schools, and utilities of Lebanon's Shia communities?
Again i am struggling to believe that you have read my reply!!! Firstly, if it was not for Hezbollah Southern Lebanon as of now; 2010 would still be ruins. Our women would still be raped, our men still decapitated, our families still in absolute treachery. Our goods would still be stolen, as well as our homes, farms, food and water still stolen and occupied. Our people would still be isolated from the rest of the country. The people of Southern Lebanon would still be in disbelief, shock, anxiety, depression, and complete financial wreck. Hezbollah has given us hope, pride, and bravery. It has made our greatest dreams come true, and has defeated what is considered to be the greatest military in the world. You say why is a significant portion of the Shia population financially modest? Maybe you haven't though of your military's agonizing 18 year occupation as a possible factor. Considering this i feel affended to an extreme level when a Israeli that is uneducated about this subject, that hasent even shed one tear in this conflict, come here and speak about the Shia people. You to melkart and Mrwizard you are arrogant to a extreme level. The Shia people has stood up, kicked out, and crushed the largest terrorist military in the world. And btw chevre, the money Hezbollah gives to home, and take care of it's people, comes from wealthy Shia's all over the world. The shia Lebanese people are some of the most successful people in the world. So not only did Hezbollah kick out the most aggressive people in the world from our country, but they also are now helping the those Lebanese people who got finanicially crushed in those 18 years, stand back on their feet, and regain their dignity. So dont, PLEASE DONT tell me how my people should, and should not live. Becasue your uneducated views ar once again shining, when you say things like that.

Quote:
Moreover, do you really consider it be a victory when 1,000,000 Lebanese were internally displaced in 2006 and thousands were injured and over 1,000 people were killed? Is this the kind of future you want to look forward to?
, this paragraph is pathetic. You really have the guts my friend, to say this is what i look forward to. Hezbollah is the only thing preventing us from facing your pathetic cowards of troops again. Hezbollah is the only front in the world that is preventing the further terrorist acts, of a terrorist army. And it is a victory, it is a victory because we using bravery and brains, stoped your occupation, and stopped your troops from doing SHIT to hezbollah. Your army is pathetic. Without Hezbollah our present and future would of been like the past. I have over and over reinforced that your military are is one with greed, evil, killing, and terrorism at its core. All Israeli's contradict themselves. They say that the old testament says to take Israel. Well does the old testanment say, to kill the most children and women, does it say to rape women in front of her children, does it say to decapitate men, our cause families and people complete and utter treachery. Does in say to steal and occupy homes, farms, food water, ruins, people's personal belongings, burn religious buildings and religious books, for pete's sake does it say to steal a whole population of their identity. Does it say to PURPOSELY provide people with the up most shock, anxiety, depression, sadness and complete financial wreck. NO MATTER HOW MUCH SWEET TALK YOU GIVE ME, your military and government will always, every day commit these crimes. They are a criminal army. THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. They need to seek peace with Palestinians. They need to seek peace with Lebanese. They need to be a peace-loving nation. Not a terrorism-loving nation. Peace is everything Southern Lebanese, and Palestains want, we want to stop being tortured and crushed by Israel. Hezbollah in Lebaon has given us that assurance. A peace treaty can be made, when the International Community, acts, and holds your terrorists accountable for the crimes they have committed. And halt these actions in the future, and FORCES ISRAEL to make peace. But that can never happen. It can never happen becuase Israel undoubtedly controls the world. Through AIPAC they control America. Through AIPAC they have destroyed two middle eastern countries and utilized them for there financially gain. My friend the question doent lie on Lebanon or Palestinian, IT LIES ON ISRAEL!! And just like you i hope one day Israel can be peaceful, and hold regular ties. And after all in the world we are the most culturally connected. We share tones of similarities. But it is up to the country you so blindly support to make the peace. Until then though, Hezbollah is waiting for the terrorists, and we will defeat the terrorists.

Jader chevre was being sarcastic, you are taking him way too seriously. What memory loss are you talking about, I Don't recall omittimg anything that was said.

about those border accidents. And those UN soldiers standing there and doing nothing :( this summer I saw some french UN soldiers, tried to talk with them: without succes. I was interested in why their f***** up organisation never did something to protect lebanon and didn't shoot all the bloody israeli's out of the air and away from the lands and sees? They aren't there to protect Lebanon's interests at all... They seem to be quite useless... When it matters they never dare to act.

Yes we need Hezbollah as a defense force.

Btw, about the Hummus: it's a palestinian record, as said arab cooks made it.

@jader

If it were up to me, I would give up the Shebaa Farms to Lebanon. But I would only give it up to Lebanon's government (with certain preconditions) and make very clear that this is a concession being made to Lebanon's government and not to Hizbullah. The same would go for all future concessions. Concessions should be made to Lebanon's government only. One of Israel's biggest mistakes is to negotiate with Hizbullah and to make concessions to it. It undermines Lebanon's government and sovereignty and strengthens Hizbullah. Hizbullah should be ignored.

about those border accidents. And those UN soldiers standing there and doing nothing :( this summer I saw some french UN soldiers, tried to talk with them: without succes. I was interested in why their fucked up organisation never did something to protect lebanon and didn't shoot all the bloody israeli's out of the air and away from the lands and sees? They aren't there to protect Lebanon's interests at all... They seem to be quite useless... When it matters they never dare to act.

Yes we need Hezbollah as a defense force.

Btw, about the Hummus: it's a palestinian record, as said arab cooks made it.

The UN troops don't want to get involved in any wars and certainly don't want to provoke anything.

@jader

If it were up to me, I would give up the Shebaa Farms to Lebanon. But I would only give it up to Lebanon's government (with certain preconditions) and make very clear that this is a concession being made to Lebanon's government and not to Hizbullah. The same would go for all future concessions. Concessions should be made to Lebanon's government only. One of Israel's biggest mistakes is to negotiate with Hizbullah and to make concessions to it. It undermines Lebanon's government and sovereignty and strengthens Hizbullah. Hizbullah should be ignored.

Hezbollah is actually in the government. :)

Chevre, you are an Israeli who doesn't really know how your governments and system function, it is in the best interest of Israel that religious movements such as Hezballah and Hammas dominate the entire Arab world, for this will keep the Arabs busy with the idea of fighting the "EVIL" or the "Cancer" in their holly lands as they call it, which is the state of Israel, and furthermore will keep them from advancing economically, politically, scientifically etc ... The Arab world is either ruled by dictatorships or by radical movements under the same "slogan" and the same excuse, fighting Israel... and the growing effect of such movements in the Arab world could eventually lead to a sectarian clash between the Sunnis and the Shiaas and even different sects, like we've seen it happen many times in Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen and other states, and this has been the Israeli plan ever since 1948, to break the Arab states up into smaller sectarian states and hence Israel will have no problem whatsoever being a pure Jewish state, and controlling all the other divided Arab states .... I mean a perfect example is Hammas, this movement was founded by Israel itself for crying out loud ... So as much as these "resistance" movements seem to be against the existence of Israel and vice versa, the truth is that both parties have mutual interests and no1 can survive without the other ...

Hezbollah is actually in the government. :)

That's irrelevant. His point was that the ENTITY being negotiated with should be the STATE (regardless if a couple officials are affiliated with Hizballah). The Hizballah militia (a separate entity operating outside of the state/government) should never be negotiated with.

The UN troops don't want to get involved in any wars and certainly don't want to provoke anything.

they should fight! they didn't provoke anything, you're right, israel did by invading lebanon, and so they should react!

..

That's irrelevant. His point was that the ENTITY being negotiated with should be the STATE (regardless if a couple officials are affiliated with Hizballah). The Hizballah militia (a separate entity operating outside of the state/government) should never be negotiated with.

Yes, this is my point exactly.

about those border accidents. And those UN soldiers standing there and doing nothing :( this summer I saw some french UN soldiers, tried to talk with them: without succes. I was interested in why their f***** up organisation never did something to protect lebanon and didn't shoot all the bloody israeli's out of the air and away from the lands and sees? They aren't there to protect Lebanon's interests at all... They seem to be quite useless... When it matters they never dare to act.

Yes we need Hezbollah as a defense force.

Btw, about the Hummus: it's a palestinian record, as said arab cooks made it.

We? Who is we, speak for yourself, you're not Lebanese stop pretending .

Hezbollah is actually in the government. :)

Yeah they are, but do we have a choice? I mean they do what they want regardless of what the majority thinks. They also threaten and use force
If you ask me they should be banned from governing.

^^

Naa they don’t, you’re taking it too far. Your making it sound like Hezbollah would take any measures to be in power. Hezbollah isn’t like that, they were the first party to accept the election results. I don’t think Hezbollah is as corrupt as you want to make it sound.

Im not a fan of Hezbollah, I don’t back up the tent city and I also condemn the storming of west Beirut. But I do support a resisting force in southern Lebanon, that is because I see more benefits than disadvantages having an armed militia.

Disarming Hezbollah and letting southern Lebanon become a no mans land is risky. See the Palestinian camps today or nahr el bared for that matter, what if a group decides to go to war with Israel from southern Lebanon?

^^ are you crazy ??? Hezbollah allways uses forces if those morons dont get what they want.... you forgetting 2006 when they created tent city ? those roits they created burning tyres... and that horried week in May...2008. noooo Hezbollah dont take it tooo far there gental people who spread love to me and you and hold hands and sing togather.

The hezb gunmen werent shooting in the air, to be fair enough you have to condemn future and psp as much you condemn hezb.. I personally think it was a very bad move by Hezbollah from the beginning, I don’t defend these acts.

The tent city was a overdo because it affected the economy very bad. Riots happen all over the world and you cannot just directly bind the hezb. Supporters acts with orders from Hezbollah officials.

you judge people by there actions my friend and hisballah hasn't demonstrated any civility or justice. No armed militia under any circumstance should be allowed. If anyone needs to resist it should be our government who in turn represents us the people.

...

^^ Your views are so double-standard. Respect yourself man. You have no right to tell someone to fight, or not fight for their country especially a Lebanese person. :lol::lol: An Israeli Telling someone to be be brave and justified:lol::lol:. Are u serious? Your comments just get crazier and crazier!! Your argument keeps contradicting it self. And R9 stop auguring with these people ESPECIALLY MELKART, it not worth it, they just blurt out two extreme sentences with no sense in them and that are unreferenced. They are to blind to recognize the legal justified resistance, and they praise Israel on a daily basis. Thank god a extreme small percentage of Lebanese have such extreme views, and ignorant views. Its really not worth it. I pledged to only argue with Israelis who come and tantalize Lebanon and Lebanese on this forum.

heheheeehehehehehheh u deleted ur post i though so :lol: :lol: I think its better if you leave this forum becasue your aurgument is going nowhere. And plus whenever a Iranian post 1 comment here beiruti brigges them instantley.

^^ Your views are so double-standard. Respect yourself man. You have no right to tell someone to fight, or not fight for their country especially a Lebanese person. :lol::lol: An Israeli Telling someone to be be brave and justified:lol::lol:. Are u serious? Your comments just get crazier and crazier!! Your argument keeps contradicting it self. And R9 stop auguring with these people ESPECIALLY MELKART, it not worth it, they just blurt out two extreme sentences with no sense in them and that are unreferenced. They are to blind to recognize the legal justified resistance, and they praise Israel on a daily basis. Thank god a extreme small percentage of Lebanese have such extreme views, and ignorant views. Its really not worth it. I pledged to only argue with Israelis who come and tantalize Lebanon and Lebanese on this forum.

Jader so far you have demonstrated the most extreme views on here. You are the one that is inciting hatred towards the jews and anything israeli. You are very nationalistic to the point where you are blinded by your ideology. Also I would like to add that you are outnumbered in this forumn, I guess that would make people like myself the majority and not the minority as you claim.

You think this forum is representative of Lebanon? So we only have 10% of women in our country...good to know!

Leb FR my point is that there are more people like myself, we are not very few as jader claims. I don't know the exact numbers I didn't take a survey lol.

^^ Your views are so double-standard. Respect yourself man. You have no right to tell someone to fight, or not fight for their country especially a Lebanese person. :lol::lol: An Israeli Telling someone to be be brave and justified:lol::lol:. Are u serious? Your comments just get crazier and crazier!!

I served my country. I put my life on the line for my country. And I've been through war. And I've seen with my own eyes, the death and destruction and intense misery incurred by war. Unlike like our Dutch friend, I have a vested interest in peace with Lebanon. I am calling him out because he, of all people, has the least at stake in a war between Lebanon and Israel. If Israel destroys Lebanon (or vice versa), he's not the one who is going to lose his parents, brothers, sisters, and so on. He is not the one who is going to be homeless. He is not the one who has to live with the constant uncertainty of whether he will live or die (from some war). He has probably never seen war, much less fought in one and seen the tragic human suffering caused by war. So what business does he have to tell Lebanese to fight in another war? I am not going to tell any Lebanese person what to do. I can accept your (i.e., any Lebanese person's) right to hate Israel and your desire to fight us. At least you have a personal stake in a war with Israel. You understand the consequences.

heheheeehehehehehheh u deleted ur post i though so :lol: :lol: I think its better if you leave this forum becasue your aurgument is going nowhere. And plus whenever a Iranian post 1 comment here beiruti brigges them instantley.

1. You have no right to tell someone they cant post here.
2. Your comment about Iranians posting here is completely unfounded.
3. I never brigg anyone "instantly"
4. For the last time, tone down the inflammatory rhetoric.

@jader3283

dude you never make sense , and you always try to project that to others.

just deal with the fact that a minority of lebanese ppl can afford war and all time crisis to be able to legalise their existence

we are not praising israel or any1 !! we are lebanese and PROUD about it ! and

and as samir geagea says .... ma bisih ila il sahih ! w nehna il sahih !

@Melkart in Lebanon there is very few people who share your extreme views. Furthermore, no politician in Lebanon speaks the words you speak about Israel and Lebanon. Because a a state one of the things we agree on is that Israel is founded and lives with Hatred,violence and treachery at its seed, furthermore it has committed statically the worst crimes in humanity. In fact you are the only Lebanese person I have heard of that that calls Hezbollah a terrorist organization. In fact out of all the countries in this world, U.S.A, and Israel are the only countries that maintain that absurd though. But like i said before it is pointless to argue with you. And let me tell you something when an Israeli, and furthermore an Israeli who supports it terrorist acts of it Military comes in here asking for a peace treaty, and furthermore claiming that his regime wants, or seeks peace, make me angry to an extreme level, so don't try convincing me not to strong in my replies with him. Furthermore, in no way is this forum representing the people of Lebanon. In fact it is a horrible representation, so just becuase most people on this forum agree with you, does not in any sense mean that Lebanon is like this :)

@Chevre

So it seems you where part of the IDF. I was wondering why you did not deny the facts about the IDF. Because you have personally witnessed and took part in these treacherous acts. The point i made earlier highlighted that in your replies you are no longer elaborating on what this discussion was about, but instead you are swaying to topics that have nothing to do with this discussion. It seems you have succumbed to my reply.

@Chevre

So it seems you where part of the IDF. I was wondering why you did not deny the facts about the IDF. Because you have personally witnessed and took part in these treacherous acts. The point i made earlier highlighted that in your replies you are no longer elaborating on what this discussion was about, but instead you are swaying to topics that have nothing to do with this discussion. It seems you have succumbed to my reply.

What are you trying to say?

@Melkart in Lebanon there is very few people who share your extreme views. Furthermore, no politician in Lebanon speaks the words you speak about Israel and Lebanon. Because a a state one of the things we agree on is that Israel is founded and lives with Hatred,violence and treachery at its seed, furthermore it has committed statically the worst crimes in humanity. In fact you are the only Lebanese person I have heard of that that calls Hezbollah a terrorist organization. In fact out of all the countries in this world, U.S.A, and Israel are the only countries that maintain that absurd though. But like i said before it is pointless to argue with you. And let me tell you something when an Israeli, and furthermore an Israeli who supports it terrorist acts of it Military comes in here asking for a peace treaty, and furthermore claiming that his regime wants, or seeks peace, make me angry to an extreme level, so don't try convincing me not to strong in my replies with him. Furthermore, in no way is this forum representing the people of Lebanon. In fact it is a horrible representation, so just becuase most people on this forum agree with you, does not in any sense mean that Lebanon is like this :)

@Chevre

So it seems you where part of the IDF. I was wondering why you did not deny the facts about the IDF. Because you have personally witnessed and took part in these treacherous acts. The point i made earlier highlighted that in your replies you are no longer elaborating on what this discussion was about, but instead you are swaying to topics that have nothing to do with this discussion. It seems you have succumbed to my reply.

Jader you are completely contradicting yourself. First of all you state that I am in a very tiny minority, than you admit that at least the folks on this forum are like myself! you indicate that no one in the Lebanese government dares to support Israel or call Hisballah outright a terrorist organisation. Well you are right on that, but let me assure you that most Lebanese that I know here in the states or in Lebanon agree with the fact that Hisballah is nothing but a terrorist organisation.

The phalange party and other march 14th supporters have indicated on more than one occasion that hisballah must disarm. Ofcourse they are not going to call them terrorists, cause hisballah might get really upset and throw a fit tantrum kind of like the ones you throw on here.

We don't want another may 7th incident to occur we are trying really hard to maintain the peace, something the likes of you have no clue about.

Another thing you keep calling me extreme. Could you please tell me exactly what is so extreme about my views? Is it because I simply disagree with you? Last time I checked I don't go name calling people and insulting there intelligence simply because we are in disagreement.

Reread your posts and see how you have always detracted from what is being debated, instead you have resorted to insults and name calling!

What are you trying to say?

I think he is using the thesaurus command in word; copy and pasting big words than pasting them on here. :)

@ Melkart
I am not contradicting myself, i am very firm in my opinions.
This is you my friend the only thing you do is blurt something out and you do not reference it!! Then you run away, or start sweet talking and partially agreeing with me. I will repost my latest reply, and if you want to have a civilized discussion answer me, with a reply!

I never try to intentionally insult fellow Lebanese on this forum and i have previously pledged not to argue with other Lebanese on this forum, because it starts conflicts, and neither of us will change our opinion, but if you feel like insulted or offended you i apologize.

But if you want to hold a discussion i will re post my previous reply, and we can start from their, if not then my goal is to discuss the original peace treaty argument with the Israeli that has stuck to this thread. Nothing more, nothing less. Your reply up there is about domestic policy that i pledged not to elaborate on, but even so we can have a discussion about that to. The choice is up to you becasue i am ready. :)

I think he is using the thesaurus command in word; copy and pasting big words than pasting them on here.

What are you saying that my vocabulary is to poor. I was born and have lived in America my whole life up to about 8 months ago. I find this reply very odd man. I dont care to use a thesaurus, i use the words i am comfortable using.

What are you trying to say?


I am saying what i just said in that reply wtff??? :lol:

You want to have a civlized aurgument man, lets start with the reply that you have failed to answer so far.

Quote: orignally posted by Jader
What solution(s) can Hizbullah offer you for the problems facing Lebanon and in particular, its Shia community? I mean, Hezb's idea of an economic stimulus package is to take handouts from Iran and to then whore this money off to desperate and destitute people. And what will happen once the Iranian regime falls? Who will pay for the hospitals, houses, schools, and utilities of Lebanon's Shia communities?
Again i am struggling to believe that you have read my reply!!! Firstly, if it was not for Hezbollah Southern Lebanon as of now; 2010 would still be ruins. Our women would still be raped, our men still decapitated, our families still in absolute treachery. Our goods would still be stolen, as well as our homes, farms, food and water still stolen and occupied. Our people would still be isolated from the rest of the country. The people of Southern Lebanon would still be in disbelief, shock, anxiety, depression, and complete financial wreck. Hezbollah has given us hope, pride, and bravery. It has made our greatest dreams come true, and has defeated what is considered to be the greatest military in the world. You say why is a significant portion of the Shia population financially modest? Maybe you haven't though of your military's agonizing 18 year occupation as a possible factor. Considering this i feel affended to an extreme level when a Israeli that is uneducated about this subject, that hasent even shed one tear in this conflict, come here and speak about the Shia people. You to melkart and Mrwizard you are arrogant to a extreme level. The Shia people has stood up, kicked out, and crushed the largest terrorist military in the world. And btw chevre, the money Hezbollah gives to home, and take care of it's people, comes from wealthy Shia's all over the world. The shia Lebanese people are some of the most successful people in the world. So not only did Hezbollah kick out the most aggressive people in the world from our country, but they also are now helping the those Lebanese people who got finanicially crushed in those 18 years, stand back on their feet, and regain their dignity. So dont, PLEASE DONT tell me how my people should, and should not live. Becasue your uneducated views ar once again shining, when you say things like that.

Quote:
Moreover, do you really consider it be a victory when 1,000,000 Lebanese were internally displaced in 2006 and thousands were injured and over 1,000 people were killed? Is this the kind of future you want to look forward to?
, this paragraph is pathetic. You really have the guts my friend, to say this is what i look forward to. Hezbollah is the only thing preventing us from facing your pathetic cowards of troops again. Hezbollah is the only front in the world that is preventing the further terrorist acts, of a terrorist army. And it is a victory, it is a victory because we using bravery and brains, stoped your occupation, and stopped your troops from doing SHIT to hezbollah. Your army is pathetic. Without Hezbollah our present and future would of been like the past. I have over and over reinforced that your military are is one with greed, evil, killing, and terrorism at its core. All Israeli's contradict themselves. They say that the old testament says to take Israel. Well does the old testanment say, to kill the most children and women, does it say to rape women in front of her children, does it say to decapitate men, our cause families and people complete and utter treachery. Does in say to steal and occupy homes, farms, food water, ruins, people's personal belongings, burn religious buildings and religious books, for pete's sake does it say to steal a whole population of their identity. Does it say to PURPOSELY provide people with the up most shock, anxiety, depression, sadness and complete financial wreck. NO MATTER HOW MUCH SWEET TALK YOU GIVE ME, your military and government will always, every day commit these crimes. They are a criminal army. THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. They need to seek peace with Palestinians. They need to seek peace with Lebanese. They need to be a peace-loving nation. Not a terrorism-loving nation. Peace is everything Southern Lebanese, and Palestains want, we want to stop being tortured and crushed by Israel. Hezbollah in Lebaon has given us that assurance. A peace treaty can be made, when the International Community, acts, and holds your terrorists accountable for the crimes they have committed. And halt these actions in the future, and FORCES ISRAEL to make peace. But that can never happen. It can never happen becuase Israel undoubtedly controls the world. Through AIPAC they control America. Through AIPAC they have destroyed two middle eastern countries and utilized them for there financially gain. My friend the question doent lie on Lebanon or Palestinian, IT LIES ON ISRAEL!! And just like you i hope one day Israel can be peaceful, and hold regular ties. And after all in the world we are the most culturally connected. We share tones of similarities. But it is up to the country you so blindly support to make the peace. Until then though, Hezbollah is waiting for the terrorists, and we will defeat the terrorists.

I am saying what i just said in that reply wtff??? :lol:

Lol... I am just having trouble making sense of your English. :cheers:

What are you trying to say?

http://i46.tinypic.com/2rrp99d.jpg

@ Melkart
I am not contradicting myself, i am very firm in my opinions.
This is you my friend the only thing you do is blurt something out and you do not reference it!! Then you run away, or start sweet talking and partially agreeing with me. I will repost my latest reply, and if you want to have a civilized discussion answer me, with a reply!

I never try to intentionally insult fellow Lebanese on this forum and i have previously pledged not to argue with other Lebanese on this forum, because it starts conflicts, and neither of us will change our opinion, but if you feel like insulted or offended you i apologize.

But if you want to hold a discussion i will re post my previous reply, and we can start from their, if not then my goal is to discuss the original peace treaty argument with the Israeli that has stuck to this thread. Nothing more, nothing less. Your reply up there is about domestic policy that i pledged not to elaborate on, but even so we can have a discussion about that to. The choice is up to you becasue i am ready. :)

I wasn't aware of any previous questions that you wanted me to answer. Ask away! but can you at least tell me why I am extreme?

P.S: I wasn't sweet talking you, I was just trying to be polite! lol

I have an idea Jader! How about you list all the things that Israel would need to do (in your opinion that is) in order for Hisballah to disarm and make peace with our southern neighbor. Let's start from there. Keep it short and simple.

Let me guess:
1. Giving back Shebaa Farms
2. Giving back Jerusalem
3. ...

Let me guess:
1. Giving back Shebaa Farms
2. Giving back Jerusalem
3. ...


4. when the sun rises from the west!

In fact you are the only Lebanese person I have heard of that that calls Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

you don't go out much i suppose?
i seriously worry that all hezbollah people are taught to think that way. that you are "the divine saviors of lebanon" (add: and everybody except an american-lebanese forumer loves you)

You want to have a civlized aurgument man, lets start with the reply that you have failed to answer so far.

Jader, that's really too long for me too go through. Can you summarize your main points for me?

Also, just in case I wasn't clear the first 20 times: No one here (in Israel) wants to take your land or to kill you and your family. That such awful things happen in the context of war is extremely tragic; but that's the nature of war and I don't think it's something that people 'enjoy' or 'look forward to'. If I was called up to fight in Lebanon with the expressed or clearly intended purpose of killing innocent people and taking their property, then I can assure you that I would probably be a concientious objector. And I am sure many others would feel the same. If however, Hizbullah attacks Israel again, then I will do whatever my country asks of me to defend its borders and its people.

Let me be perfectly clear: I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR FAMILY. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR HOME. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR LAND. In other words, going to south Lebanon in order to harass and persecute you isn't worth my trouble. Moreover, I have no interest in it. Again, I can confidently speak for a significant % of people.

I am a selfish person, you see. I have more of an interest of living my life (and enjoying it) then I do of depriving you of your right to enjoy your life. Even if I hated you, I would be too apathetic to knock on your door and start fighting with you.

I am not even speaking as a pacifist here or from a 'moralistic' perspective. For purely self-serving reasons, fighting you (i.e., Lebanese) is a waste of my time. Why should I want to go to some Shia village in Lebanon and get into some gun fight, when I can enjoy a day at the beach in Tel Aviv or make some money with my business? I mean as much as you hate me, wouldn't you rather have fun in Beirut or Sur (i.e., living your life) than to have the turret of a Merkava tank outside of your front door?

Lebanese army fires on Israeli fighter planes
January 11, 2010


Lebanese anti-aircraft guns opened fire on four Israeli warplanes that were violating Lebanese airspace at low altitude on Monday, the military said.

"The army's anti-aircraft guns fired at four enemy Israeli planes that had been flying over the [southern] area of Marjayoun this morning," an army spokesperson told AFP on condition of anonymity.

An AFP correspondent in southern Lebanon said about 70 rounds had targeted four Israeli aircraft.

UNIFIL spokesperson Andrea Tenenti said the over-flights were a violation of UN Security Council Resolution 1701, adding, "We have been noticing a significant number of Israeli flights into Lebanese airspace over the last week.”

"We have, as always, strongly protested these violations to the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) and reported them to the Security Council," he told AFP.

-AFP/NOWLebanon

This is why we need Hezbollah, how can we even protect our borders if the LAF is uncapable of shooting down planes? Yes they shoot at those planes, but still are much too oldfashioned in weaponry to really do something against those planes or shoot them down. Don't they have anti-aircraft rockets?

^^ If your to lazy to read my reply chevre then i will not argue with you. :)

And the answer to your ??'s melkart are in my reply. Which u are still running away from ;)

This is why we need Hezbollah, how can we even protect our borders if the LAF is uncapable of shooting down planes? Yes they shoot at those planes, but still are much too oldfashioned in weaponry to really do something against those planes or shoot them down. Don't they have anti-aircraft rockets?

So....you want an army inside a country to have sufficient technology to destroy flying planes....is it me or you are forgetting something?

What if those people - not controlled by the government and without any oath for defending the country or its people, more subject to Iran and Shia beliefs than to what Lebanon represents per se- attack the Lebanese Army or the Lebanese people for whatever reason? You are just insane.

You are defending Hisballah, which is like defending the FARC in Colombia or former Sendero Luminoso in Peru - yes, Hisballah isn't attacking Lebanese villages but, in the future? Who knows.

And just curious, aren't you Dutch? Lebanese? Lebanese-friendly? I don't get it.

^^ Please read the whole discussion before blurting out unreferenced comments.

MALO your aurgument is very weak, please read my address to all Israelis on post number 3849, and then discuss this with me.

So....you want an army inside a country to have sufficient technology to destroy flying planes....is it me or you are forgetting something?

What if those people - not controlled by the government and without any oath for defending the country or its people, more subject to Iran and Shia beliefs than to what Lebanon represents per se- attack the Lebanese Army or the Lebanese people for whatever reason? You are just insane.

You are defending Hisballah, which is like defending the FARC in Colombia or former Sendero Luminoso in Peru - yes, Hisballah isn't attacking Lebanese villages but, in the future? Who knows.

And just curious, aren't you Dutch? Lebanese? Lebanese-friendly? I don't get it.

One thing we know for sure is that the chance of Israel instead of Hezbollah attacking Lebanese people is much higher.

Yes a strong LAF would be the solution, but at the moment it is a Utopia so untill that moment we need forces which showed to be effective as a defense. Only when they are being incorporated into the army and the LAF is strong enough, has advanced airplanes and anti-aircraft and anti-tank weaponry, then the Hizbollah militia can finally be disarmed or incorporated (which I prefer, they have a lot of experience) into the army. Untill that time they are unmissable.

Btw, read some articles written by Americans too or by Norton: which shows that yes, Hezbollah has connections with Irak, Lebanon and Iran, but at the same time they are highly lebonized, have clearly Lebanese interests and feel lebanese and even participate in Lebanese politics. Ideologically seen on religous field they differ a lot from Syria's official point of view (muhammad il-7abashi) but from a pragmatic point of view they work together.

About me, yes, I'm Dutch. To be more exactly, my family is from the city of Rotterdam which was bombed in WW2 by the Germans and because of that has a very skyscraper skyline like view right now because all of the city centre was ruined. My grandfather was in a camp in Dresden and no one thought he would ever return, he also witnessed the bombing of Dresden (he wasn't a jew, but also a lot of other men aged 18-45 were transported to Germany to work camps, his house in Rotterdam was also ruined during the bombardment), but he was liberated by the Russians and returned via trains from Checkia. Also the brother of my other grandfather was such a guy being held captive in Berlin. Rotterdam is, after Amsterdam, the biggest city of the Netherlands and looks like this nowadays (yes we have a subforum here!) because in may 1940 in only a quarter of an hour around a 1000 people died in the bombardment of Rotterdam and after it the Dutch Army had to give up (even though they were doing better than expected, Hitler expected to capture The Netherlands, a highly farmerlike demilitarised country, in 3 days, but after a week his army got stuck at the Maas bridges in Rotterdam and near the hills of Utrecht, that's why he desided to bomb Rotterdam as a warning for the other cities). I'm happy since then Europe is quite safe and improving. But the Middle East is still suffering because of WW2, people had been and still are closing their eyes for what the israelians are doing because they feel ashamed for WW2, while at the other hand they have ruined the lifes of a lot of Palestinians and others over there and are preventing the area of becoming peaceful.

This is how Rotterdam looked like after it:
http://www.50plusser.nl/weblog/images/collum/50_plus-3421-18103-2502081733-Rotterdam3.jpg

http://www.eerbetoonaanderotterdammers.nl/lib/img/Rotterdam1940-01.jpg

This is how it looks like now:
http://i49.tinypic.com/10fxnpt.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=385

So don't tell me that I don't know what war means or meant for my family or WW2 ;) And because of that it's a shame that even after that war we refuse to condemn and stop others from murdering each other and ethnically cleaning another country (like happened in Palestine in 1947/48). The only time we acted right was with Kosovo.

I've been multiple times in Syria and Lebanon and I love these countries and people and I know some palestinian refugees in my own town. It's a shame to see that we still, and the whole world, are being silent about all that has happened and still is happening there.

Rotterdam is Beautiful. :) I agree with you 100 percent, and my original post further elaborates on the message. Too bad that the people we are discussing this with are too lazy to read something more then 2 sentences. ;)

For more, see (this is where I mostly hang around here):

City shots, and at the moment there is quite a lot of snow and ice (which is quite exceptional for the netherlands, every winter we sometimes have a bit of snow, mostly only for 3 days, but now we have snow for a very long period and it still is there!)
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=855208&page=62

http://i48.tinypic.com/2v3ol5d.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/2hp3dso.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/25kj786.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4271229274_9dffcd8e7c_b.jpg

^^ If your to lazy to read my reply chevre then i will not argue with you. :)

And the answer to your ??'s melkart are in my reply. Which u are still running away from ;)

Are you refering to your reply to chevre's questions? Cause that doesn't answer any of my questions, Nor do you ask me any questions for me to run away from!

jb_nl, I have never honestly heard that there is a city that competes with Amsterdam in the Netherlands, i am glad i know about Rotterdam now!! It look very sleek, and sophiticated, and i think they should share their city more on the media, and publicize it, becuase, its not good that no one know's about such a large metropolis.

@Melkart, i really dont see how your views, or argument is much diffrent then the Israel's views. You have had mutual points of views, and have been embracing each other's ideas since the start of this discussion????

Oh beautiful, we have a tourism advert for Rotterdam in a Lebanese political forum.

Israel Angered Over LAF anti-air Defense; demands halt of Foreign Aid to LAF

Daily Star
13, January 2010


BEIRUT: Israel has launched a diplomatic campaign aimed at countries providing military assistance to Lebanon, warning that any weapons or equipment given to Beirut will end up in Hizbullah’s hands, according to Israeli media. The Jerusalem Post, citing Israeli government sources, reported on Monday that Tel Aviv is calling on the international community to rethink supporting the Lebanese Army.

“The position Israel is trying to impress on countries that support Lebanon is that the Lebanese Army and Hizbullah are virtually indistinguishable,” the paper wrote.

It reported that Israeli concerns are likely to be raised this week during a visit from US National Security Adviser James Jones. Talks will touch on Israel’s refusal to accept the Lebanese Cabinet statement’s article six, which legitimizes the presence of a resistance to Israeli aggression in Lebanon, it added.

“There has been a great deal of concern here,” the paper quoted one official as saying over the resistance issue.

The campaign comes at a time when the US is considering providing Lebanon with support across a wide variety of security, development and reform projects. In talks with Lebanese President Michel Sleiman last weekend, the defeated US presidential candidate John McCain reiterated the US’s “commitment to supporting a strong, independent, and democratic Lebanon.”

Sleiman himself asked Washington in December for greater military assistance.

Simon Haddad, political science professor at Notre Dame University, said that weapons provided by the US would not reach Hizbullah.

“I don’t think that Hizbullah is in need of weapons; they have enough weapons that they can use in future confrontations with Israel,” he said.

Retired Army General Elias Hanna said that the type of support Lebanon received from the US should not concern officials south of the Blue Line, as it was not of use to Hizbullah.

“The US won’t provide Lebanon with anything that will change the balance of power,” he said. “Maybe Israel doesn’t want to add more complexities to its own situation. But this weaponry will not complicate the situation, because what the Americans give will be conventional weapons.”

Since 2005, the US has pledged to provide Lebanon with more than $500 million worth of military support to aid the capacities of its security forces, assist counterterrorism operations and work to prevent arms flowing into the country through its porous border with Syria, according to the US Congressional Research Service. This pales in comparison to the near $3 billion the US provides Israel’s military with annually.

The US State Department has said that military aid to Lebanon would, among other developments, “promote Lebanese control over southern Lebanon and Palestinian refugee camps to prevent them from being used as bases to attack Israel.” But political wrangling has delayed much of the US’ promised military support from reaching Lebanon.

“It’s true that the US is reluctant to provide Lebanon with certain things,” said Haddad, who added that the Lebanese Army command was likely to ask for an increase in US military provisions in the near future.

“[Israel] is afraid of any anti-aircraft missiles being provided to the Lebanese because this could change the status quo, but this is not the current issue,” he said. “The US is not willing to invest militarily in Lebanon, so in any case they would not [provide such weaponry].”

Haddad added that the US could be worried by Israeli warnings of weapons falling into the wrong hands.

“The US would like to inquire more about the use of this [military equipment],” he added. “They need assurances.”

Haddad said that irrespective of the military reality, “Israel’s arguments could be used to stop US support [for Lebanon].”

Israel has repeatedly said that it will not accept Hizbullah as a member of Lebanon’s Cabinet and periodically warns that all of Lebanon will be held accountable if it is attacked by the group from positions in the south.

Hanna said that Hizbullah’s aims and those of the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) were different, as was the military equipment both sought to obtain.

“Hizbullah does not need the LAF, the LAF is totally different from an ideological approach and practical capability,” he said.

Israel’s reported diplomatic offensive seeking to diminish military assistance to Lebanon in fear of strengthening Hizbullah was unfounded, according to Hanna, who said that US funding was aimed at “local stability, as the Americans will not give us advanced weapons.”

“All they want is to make the LAF capable enough to implement Resolution 1701 and keep us from falling as a proxy of Iran,” he said

yes, Hisballah isn't attacking Lebanese villages but, in the future? Who knows.



Actually, they have already in the recent past. This should be enough to worry the population.

@Chevre

So it seems you where part of the IDF. I was wondering why you did not deny the facts about the IDF. Because you have personally witnessed and took part in these treacherous acts. The point i made earlier highlighted that in your replies you are no longer elaborating on what this discussion was about, but instead you are swaying to topics that have nothing to do with this discussion. It seems you have succumbed to my reply.

What facts? What I NOT deny?

Israel Angered Over LAF anti-air Defense; demands halt of Foreign Aid to LAF

Daily Star
13, January 2010


BEIRUT: Israel has launched a diplomatic campaign aimed at countries providing military assistance to Lebanon, warning that any weapons or equipment given to Beirut will end up in Hizbullah’s hands, according to Israeli media. The Jerusalem Post, citing Israeli government sources, reported on Monday that Tel Aviv is calling on the international community to rethink supporting the Lebanese Army.


That should really explain everything to you. The concern isn't about the LAF getting the weapons; it's about weapons being siphoned from the LAF to Hizbullah. I don't know much about the LAF, but I would have to assume that it is a much more responsible player than Hizbullah in the sense that it would have a more pragmatic approach to waging/fighting wars with Israel. In a democratic country like Lebanon, the government and its army, are ultimately responsible to the peoples' desires/interests; whereas a pseudo-governmental entity like Hizbullah, which only represents certain interests inside Lebanon, has no accountability to anyone. Therefore, if Hizbullah starts (or provokes) another war with Israel and Lebanon is subsequently destroyed, it doesn't have to answer to anyone; whereas the LAF would be accountable, since it is an arm of the elected government of Lebanon.

Let me reverse the situation--- if the IDF went into Lebanon, without just cause (i.e., if Israel were not under attack), then Israelis would take out their anger in the elections and replace the government that waged war on Lebanon with a new one. In Lebanon, the LAF is too weak to effectively defend the country, while Hizbullah doesn't have to answer to anyone.

Chevre, i have replied and reposted my reply to what you said earlier 3 times. If you want to continue this discussion, simply challenge what i wrote. Because you have not replied, and keep swaying to new subjects that have nothing to do with what we are talking about i have presumed that agreed with what i have said. And about the denying thing, i meant that you have confirmed the massacres that your beloved regime have committed. I can not be sure though, because once again it seems you are trying to run away from the peace-treaty subject after my post on post # 3865

hehehehe chevre, if you would have read on(it really semms like you do not like reading!!!)

Simon Haddad, political science professor at Notre Dame University, said that weapons provided by the US would not reach Hizbullah.

“I don’t think that Hizbullah is in need of weapons; they have enough weapons that they can use in future confrontations with Israel,” he said.


Dud, the LAF is one of the weakest, if not the weakest militaries in the world becasue of the agonizing 16 year civil war that struck Lebanon. They have no intrest, and do not have the capabilities to attempt to protect Southern Lebanon. Once again that is a leading factor in the creation of the Lebanese Resistance. And most importantly, Hezbollah is in no need for arms from the LAF, your PM confirmed that Hezbollah has the military intelligence, and strategy to quote "Undoubtley defeat the Israel in a future confrontation"

Get in the game my friend. ;)

And btw, you are once again swaying from our original discusssion about Israel, and Peace.

jb_nl, I have never honestly heard that there is a city that competes with Amsterdam in the Netherlands, i am glad i know about Rotterdam now!! It look very sleek, and sophiticated, and i think they should share their city more on the media, and publicize it, becuase, its not good that no one know's about such a large metropolis.

@Melkart, i really dont see how your views, or argument is much diffrent then the Israel's views. You have had mutual points of views, and have been embracing each other's ideas since the start of this discussion????

Jader rotterdam is a very well known city lol!

jb_nl, I have never honestly heard that there is a city that competes with Amsterdam in the Netherlands, i am glad i know about Rotterdam now!! It look very sleek, and sophiticated, and i think they should share their city more on the media, and publicize it, becuase, its not good that no one know's about such a large metropolis.

@Melkart, i really dont see how your views, or argument is much diffrent then the Israel's views. You have had mutual points of views, and have been embracing each other's ideas since the start of this discussion????

Ok let me know if I missed any questions!

hehehehe chevre, if you would have read on(it really semms like you do not like reading!!!)



Dud, the LAF is one of the weakest, if not the weakest militaries in the world becasue of the agonizing 16 year civil war that struck Lebanon. They have no intrest, and do not have the capabilities to attempt to protect Southern Lebanon. Once again that is a leading factor in the creation of the Lebanese Resistance. And most importantly, Hezbollah is in no need for arms from the LAF, your PM confirmed that Hezbollah has the military intelligence, and strategy to quote "Undoubtley defeat the Israel in a future confrontation"

Get in the game my friend. ;)

And btw, you are once again swaying from our original discusssion about Israel, and Peace.

The LAF is weak not so much due to it's lack of it's weaponry, but more due to the fact that it can't take any sides for fear of splitting the army into factions similar to what happened during the civil war. This is one of the reasons why patriarch Nasrallah Sfeir called for christians to join the army, since most of the recruits are shia! So you see our military is weak because of Hisballah's ideology and stubborness to threaten and intimidate anything that does not conform with its ways.

Chevre, i have replied and reposted my reply to what you said earlier 3 times. If you want to continue this discussion, simply challenge what i wrote. Because you have not replied, and keep swaying to new subjects that have nothing to do with what we are talking about i have presumed that agreed with what i have said. And about the denying thing, i meant that you have confirmed the massacres that your beloved regime have committed. I can not be sure though, because once again it seems you are trying to run away from the peace-treaty subject after my post on post # 3865

That's not your post...

And btw, you are once again swaying from our original discusssion about Israel, and Peace.

I think I've been very consistent on the matter, actually (and so have you). I want peace; you don't.

hehehehe chevre, if you would have read on(it really semms like you do not like reading!!!)



Dud, the LAF is one of the weakest, if not the weakest militaries in the world becasue of the agonizing 16 year civil war that struck Lebanon. They have no intrest, and do not have the capabilities to attempt to protect Southern Lebanon. Once again that is a leading factor in the creation of the Lebanese Resistance. And most importantly, Hezbollah is in no need for arms from the LAF, your PM confirmed that Hezbollah has the military intelligence, and strategy to quote "Undoubtley defeat the Israel in a future confrontation"

Get in the game my friend. ;)

And btw, you are once again swaying from our original discusssion about Israel, and Peace.


The LAF is stronger today than it has ever been, so please stop insulting it and brushing it aside because you know very well that there is no need for a militia (esp. one that is provocative and in no way defensive).

1701 liberated south Lebanon from Hizballah.

^^ on another note during the Cedar Revolution we saw protesters raising Lebanese flags, so all you could see was a sea of reds and whites. During the opposition protests all you could see was yellow. I guess we know where the opposition's loyalty stands!

btw after seeing horrific images of the devastation in Haiti, I can't help but be reminded of how foolish some of the Lebanese are! In Haiti, many lives were wasted in a natural disaster, but in Lebanon we can only blame ourselves for the loss of innocent lives!

Hezbollah is in no need for arms from the LAF, your PM confirmed that Hezbollah has the military intelligence, and strategy to quote "Undoubtley defeat the Israel in a future confrontation"

Get in the game my friend. ;)

Hezbollah is in no way capable of "defeating" Israel. Yes, Hezbollah can survive due to the guerella tactics used on its own territory, but cannot claim victory against Israel, and by "victory" i mean a real victory (not your kind of victory) ;)
The only reason Israel hasnt yet annihilated the entire Lebanese population is because it simply doesnt feel like it.

jb_nl, I have never honestly heard that there is a city that competes with Amsterdam in the Netherlands, i am glad i know about Rotterdam now!! It look very sleek, and sophiticated, and i think they should share their city more on the media, and publicize it, becuase, its not good that no one know's about such a large metropolis.

@Melkart, i really dont see how your views, or argument is much diffrent then the Israel's views. You have had mutual points of views, and have been embracing each other's ideas since the start of this discussion????

They are at the moment ;) Now they are ready for it. It took a lot of years to rebuild and reshape Rotterdam, We have some historical places, but most of the city centre was gone as you can see (so not an entire ancient city centre like is the case with Amsterdam), so it took a lot years to rebuild the whole city. When I was young, in the beginning of the nineties I even didn't like Rotterdam a lot, always a lot of noise and mess because of a lot being build.

But nowadays since 2000 Rotterdam is becoming much more complete. Now a lot has been finished (while still some big building programmes are running and on the scheme!) Rotterdam has got it's own style and feeling back! A lot of very futuristic and modern Buildings and still a lot is being build. Even famous architect Rem Koolhaas comes from this city (2 of his buildings (one in china one in the US) is in the list of the 10 most important buildings of 2000-2010 and at the moment two buildings of his are being built in Rotterdam! One of them alongside the river Maas.

So since Rotterdam started to get its own shape I started to fall in love with my city. And so are a lot. A big promotion campaign was set up and this year the bike racing event, the most famous bike racing event in the world, the Tour de France, will start in Rotterdam this year! So this summer there will be a lot of advertising and also on the television will be a lot of shots of Rotterdam when the first 2 etapés de tour de france are over there.

Still a lot has to be done, but they are on a good way. At the moment we have the highest buildings in the Netherlands and a lot of architecture tourists come over here and the number of them is growing as the beauty of this city is growing. Also Rotterdam isn't just the biggest city in Holland after Amsterdam, but we also have the biggest harbour of Europe and at the moment they are creating new land in the sea to expend the harbour. Dutch are specialised in it and it are those companies from Rotterdam who built the palm islands in dubai and help other harbours to expend or dig out their soil like Latakkia (il-lad2iyye) in Syria and the harbours in 3omaan. So yes, we are becoming more famous, but it still needs time. But this year the Tour de France Is going to make a big difference. Rotterdam is becoming more positivly known in the Netherlands itself (as is The Hague for it's expanding architecture, but on a much smaller scale) and is the number 1 city for modern architecture and good restaurants. Also a lot of cruise ships enter the harbour nowadays with tourists. And also in Europe it's becoming more known than before. Why you didn't hear about us before: because we were still bizzy building up everything, now it's getting it's final form so now it's getting suitable for more tourists.

They started with "rebuilding Rotterdam part 2" at the end of the 90's when they also ordered and built this new iconic bridge around which most of the skyline is set. It used to be an industrial harbour area, but now it is turned over into a beautiful living and tourist area.

Oh beautiful, we have a tourism advert for Rotterdam in a Lebanese political forum.

Be happy that I can post something very positive in this topic :lol: Whenever you need a guide (eventually in lebanese) you can contact me for Rotterdam :lol:

Jader rotterdam is a very well known city lol!

See what I said and explained before in this post. I don't think it's strange that a lot of people don't know the second biggest city of the Netherlands, because Rotterdam was ruined and it took a lot of time to rebuild it in a stylish way (the rebuilding 1.0 directly after the war was aimed on quickly rebuilding houses and other facilities for the people who lost their houses, shops etc. only later on, during the 90's and now since 2000 a big second plan has been launched, the rebuilding 2.0, to boost Rotterdam and rebuild it in a beautiful way). But now its fame is growing and in the following years more people will know it. Now mostly only architecture freaks like us know this city.

back on topic :lol:

hmm, bullshit, Hizbollah can get its own weapons from russia, syria etc. They don't need LAF for that. Israel is just saying that because they don't want LAF to get strong so they have an excuse to invade Lebanon (because of Hezbollah etc. and other things like wanting territory) and they don't have damaged airplanes or them being shot down. That's the only reason why they don't want the LAF to get stronger!

Also LAF maybe misses experience in defending vallies with tactics and weapons (like Kornets) as Hezbollah does, so coorporations would be nice or including hezbollah units and integrating them into the army so they can become special valley guerilla defense units.

Btw hezbollah has become more than just an guerilla force, they also use open assymetric warfare and openly defend valleys instead of just letting the enemy come and attack him in villages etc. See some reports by that have been done by professionals.

8 Israeli Soldiers Patrol Border with
Lebanon in their Sleep

http://i48.tinypic.com/16hn8ex.jpg

Eight Israeli soldiers fell asleep while patrolling the border with Lebanon around two weeks ago, Israel Radio reported Tuesday.
The battalion commander of the four soldiers, two drivers and two commanding officers discovered them sleeping while holding their firearms in the Tormus area.Soldiers in the battalion told Israel Radio that those involved hadn't slept in 48 hours and in the past had complained of sleep deprivation. An Israeli army spokesman said that the group's commanding officer was tried and jailed for the incident.

Hezbollah is in no way capable of "defeating" Israel. Yes, Hezbollah can survive due to the guerella tactics used on its own territory, but cannot claim victory against Israel, and by "victory" i mean a real victory (not your kind of victory) ;)
The only reason Israel hasnt yet annihilated the entire Lebanese population is because it simply doesnt feel like it.

LOL X 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

I never asked you anything Melkart, i just told you not to confront me about this subject, reply to post # 3849!!!!!!!!!!!!!

on another note during the Cedar Revolution we saw protesters raising Lebanese flags, so all you could see was a sea of reds and whites. During the opposition protests all you could see was yellow. I guess we know where the opposition's loyalty stands!

btw after seeing horrific images of the devastation in Haiti, I can't help but be reminded of how foolish some of the Lebanese are! In Haiti, many lives were wasted in a natural disaster, but in Lebanon we can only blame ourselves for the loss of innocent lives!

Haha, so know you want to blame Shia on the Civil war. hehe melkart and john's words make me crack up. ;)

----------------ds---

Despite the intensifying crisis between Israel and Turkey, Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak is insisting to follow through with his scheduled plans to visit Turkey next week. However, on Thursday it became clear that an arrest warrant may await him there.

One of the major human rights organizations in Turkey, Mazlumder, requested from the Turkish state prosecution to order that Barak be arrested upon landing in the country for what they call “his responsibility for war crimes during Operation Cast Lead.”

A statement published Wednesday night by the Istanbul branch of Mazlumder said that the request is rooted in the right of universal jurisdiction and Article CMK98 of Turkish law.

“Israel perpetrated genocide and crimes against humanity. Israeli army forces bombed the UN building, hospitals, and schools. As was proven by lab tests performed by Turkish universities, they also used phosphorous bombs, which are forbidden. It is known that Israel used an assortment of ammunitions that caused physiological and psychological diseases among the Gazan population.”

The organization’s statement also asserted that a request was made in the past to Turkish prosecution to arrest senior Israeli officials, but then Justice Minister Mehmet Ali Shahin rejected it. The organization hopes that this time around, given the crisis in the relations between the two countries and the precedent provided by efforts in Britain to issue an arrest warrant against former minister Tzipi Livni, the Turkish prosecutor will decide to act differently.

“We know that Barak will arrive in Turkey on the 17th of the month,” said the organization. “(We) need to put him trial and prevent every other Israeli who is responsible for war crimes from entering Turkey freely. We remind the Turkish prosecution of its role. We remind them that Britain has already decided to arrest Tzipi Livni when she was slated to arrive in the country. We remind them that Shimon Peres and Ehud Olmert must also be arrested according to Article CMK-98 of the Turkish law, which grants us the right to try them.”

Mazlumder is an independent organization that was founded in 1991 by a group of 54 lawyers, businessmen, and media correspondents. It has many branches throughout Turkey. The group defines itself as apolitical and promoting human rights regardless of race, religion, or gender and “without double standards for humanity.”

Chairman of the Istanbul branch Attorney Jihad Gokdimar is signed on the current request for an arrest warrant.

This is the not the first time an attempt has been made in Turkey to issue an arrest warrant against senior Israeli officials. In February 2009, a pro-Palestinian organization asked that then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, his Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, and President Shimon Peres be put on trial. The general prosecutor in Ankara rejected their request.

yo jb_nl what to Netherlands people think of Lebanon??

They think that some of us are terrorists! :)

Haha, so know you want to blame Shia on the Civil war. hehe melkart and john's words make me crack up. ;)

NO NO I didn't mention the civil war or any specific war, nor did I mention the shia! The main point was that we have a choice in bettering our nation and moving forward rather than focusing on the negatives and stalling progress. Gopd do I have to explain everything!

yo jb_nl what to Netherlands people think of Lebanon??

see your inbox, otherwise we get too oftopic I guess, besides I told about it before here I guess. That lebanon isn't well known in Holland and if someone knows something about Lebanon it's possibly about the civil war. Better educated people and people who read quality news papers know much more about the country and the situation. There are no problems here with Lebanese immigrants at all and i think that lebanese are seen as good kooks and workers.

----------MELKART, JOHN, BEIRUTI LISTEN FROM THE MARCH 14 MEDIA, AND HARIRI--------


France, Turkey, USA; warn Hariri, Sleiman of appoaching Israeli Offensive

A well-informed Lebanese source, who spoke on condition of anynomity, told As-Sharq al-Awsat newspaper that President Michel Sleiman and Prime Minister Saad Hariri were reportedly informed during their trips abroad – referring to Sleiman’s trips to France and the US, and Hariri’s visit to Turkey– that Israel is planning to soon attack Lebanon.

The source said that France warned Hariri in 2006 before the July War that Israel was preparing to carry out a massive operation along Lebanon’s border. Hariri immediately conveyed the message to Hezbollah Secretary General Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, added the source.

Several Lebanese officials believe that there is a US conviction that you need to wage war in the Middle East before achieving peace, said the source. This could be a very dangerous indicator that a new Israeli war is probable, added the source.

As-Sharq al-Awsat also cited other reports in the foreign media warning against an Israeli war on Lebanon. The new attack would be similar to the Gaza offensive when the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) launched a surprise attack and destroyed Palestinian police stations in the strip last year, said the source.

He added that the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) would be Israel’s first target, especially since the LAF’s military bases’ locations are out in the open, unlike Hezbollah’s secret hideouts.

Loyalty to the Resistance bloc MP Nawwaf Moussawi, in turn, told the daily that such reports of war on Lebanon do not worry Hezbollah, but, he added, the party is not downplaying their importance.

Meanwhile, Future bloc MP Ghazi Youssef told the daily that the Israeli threats are serious, adding that Tel Aviv wants to destabilize the region. “Israel’s goal is [to attack] Lebanon, not Hezbollah. The proof is that every time Lebanon has a real chance to prosper, an [Israeli] aggression [occurs].”

Youssef also said that “Israel is exploiting the regional conflict with Iran,” adding that neither Hezbollah nor any other party should give Tel Aviv an excuse to launch a new war on Lebanon.

-NOW Lebanon

This article highlight the closed-mind you have on this subject guys. Maybe for once you will learn that Israel is a country based on war, terrorism and treachery, and a stable, prosperous Lebanon, is something they can not bear. ;)

@jader

I am sorry, but this article is silly. Stop being so sensationalistic. It doesn't even make sense (on so many levels).

appoaching



I'd like to see that news source you're quoting that misspelled "approaching"! Unless the BIG-RED-SIZE7 title is by you!

^^ that's from "NOW LEBANON" - At least that's what's written.

This also shows why the Hezbollah type of defense tactic is so important: Because they are hidden it's hard for the enemy to hit them, in contrary to the LAF forces which don't use these kind of defense tactics.

----------MELKART, JOHN, BEIRUTI LISTEN FROM THE MARCH 14 MEDIA, AND HARIRI--------


France, Turkey, USA; warn Hariri, Sleiman of appoaching Israeli Offensive

A well-informed Lebanese source, who spoke on condition of anynomity, told As-Sharq al-Awsat newspaper that President Michel Sleiman and Prime Minister Saad Hariri were reportedly informed during their trips abroad – referring to Sleiman’s trips to France and the US, and Hariri’s visit to Turkey– that Israel is planning to soon attack Lebanon.

The source said that France warned Hariri in 2006 before the July War that Israel was preparing to carry out a massive operation along Lebanon’s border. Hariri immediately conveyed the message to Hezbollah Secretary General Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, added the source.

Several Lebanese officials believe that there is a US conviction that you need to wage war in the Middle East before achieving peace, said the source. This could be a very dangerous indicator that a new Israeli war is probable, added the source.

As-Sharq al-Awsat also cited other reports in the foreign media warning against an Israeli war on Lebanon. The new attack would be similar to the Gaza offensive when the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) launched a surprise attack and destroyed Palestinian police stations in the strip last year, said the source.

He added that the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) would be Israel’s first target, especially since the LAF’s military bases’ locations are out in the open, unlike Hezbollah’s secret hideouts.

Loyalty to the Resistance bloc MP Nawwaf Moussawi, in turn, told the daily that such reports of war on Lebanon do not worry Hezbollah, but, he added, the party is not downplaying their importance.

Meanwhile, Future bloc MP Ghazi Youssef told the daily that the Israeli threats are serious, adding that Tel Aviv wants to destabilize the region. “Israel’s goal is [to attack] Lebanon, not Hezbollah. The proof is that every time Lebanon has a real chance to prosper, an [Israeli] aggression [occurs].”

Youssef also said that “Israel is exploiting the regional conflict with Iran,” adding that neither Hezbollah nor any other party should give Tel Aviv an excuse to launch a new war on Lebanon.

-NOW Lebanon

Here is my advice to you: Believe half what you see and none what you hear! LOL

This also shows why the Hezbollah type of defense tactic is so important: Because they are hidden it's hard for the enemy to hit them, in contrary to the LAF forces which don't use these kind of defense tactics.

I don't have an issue with Hisballah's military tactics, I have an issue with Hisballah's posession of arms outside of the state! You see one can't call oneself a resistence when they only represent a single sect. A resistance has to have a national concensus, and represent the people. Besides what is the point of electing a government, if they're going to act on their own instinct. Besides if the LAF is incapapble in defendin g Lebanon than why is hisballah a seperate entity. If they are truly an independent Lebanese force than why not join force with the national army and improve it. Why seperate and weaken it?

I find this report from Lebanon NOW to be interesting for several reasons:

1) It is citing a newspaper, As-Sharq al-Awsat, that probably lacks journalistic objectivity (i.e., it has a decidedly anti-Israel position).

2) If Israel did start a war in Lebanon now or in the near future, I think (but I could be wrong) that a lot of people in Israel would be surprised. No one was surprised when Israel entered Lebanon in 2006 or Gaza in 2008.

3) The last paper that I would expect to have an accurate sense of what is going on in Israel is once called As-Sharq al-Awsat.

4) The only people who would stand to benefit from another war between Israel and Hizbullah, would be Hizbullah and Iran (and maybe Syria too). It would give Hizbullah one more way in which to justify its existance.

5) Israel is known to be good at planting false news stories in the world media. I am sure that a newspaper like As-Sharq al-Awsat would only be too eager to believe them.

6) Unlike 2006 and 2008, I don't think that there would be as much popular support for a war.

Can you imagine how bad Israel would look for initiating a war without a solid reason. It would loose all credibility worldwide. It's definitly not in its interest to instigate a war. Having said that Israel is definitly preparing itself for another war as a contingency incase of another hisballah strikes!

Have we stopped to ask ourselves WHY Israel would want to launch an offensive? We are giving them all the reasons they need by not fulfilling 1701.

Can you imagine how bad Israel would look for initiating a war without a solid reason. It would loose all credibility worldwide. It's definitly not in its interest to instigate a war. Having said that Israel is definitly preparing itself for another war as a contingency incase of another hisballah strikes!

I agree. I don't see why Israel would attack Lebanon now or in the foreseeable future. In 2006, we had a reason to enter Lebanon (even if one were to disagree with the scope and scale of what Israel did in Lebanon). The same thing, regarding Gaza.

I don't think Israel is preparing itself for a 'definite' or 'inevitable' war; I think it's preparing itself for the possibility of a war. Just as I am sure the same is being done in Lebanon.

----------MELKART, JOHN, BEIRUTI LISTEN FROM THE MARCH 14 MEDIA, AND HARIRI--------

France, Turkey, USA; warn Hariri, Sleiman of appoaching Israeli Offensive



sorry, but this looks like a weak attempt by hezbollah to put fear in Lebanese people's minds, and make them see no other solution but to support hezbollah, justifying their existence.

I'd like to see that news source you're quoting that misspelled "approaching"! Unless the BIG-RED-SIZE7 title is by you!

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=138399

and well, why are they violating airspace and other territory? Why are they occupiying jowlan? Why did they suddenly started to murder and make refugee of a whole nation without a state nowadays in 1947? :( Yes, it are always the others who are guilty and never israel :lol:

http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArticleDetails.aspx?ID=138399

and well, why are they violating airspace and other territory? Why are they occupiying jowlan? Why did they suddenly started to murder and make refugee of a whole nation without a state nowadays in 1947? :( Yes, it are always the others who are guilty and never israel :lol:

- They occupy the Golan heights because, Syria lost the war. This was a lesson to the Syrians not to mess with the big boys!

- the Israelis have built very few settlements there, it's been largely populated by x-Syrians (aka Israeli Druze). There status: very happy to be Israelis!

- They violate our airspace for spying purposes ofcourse. How can they defend themselves without spying on the enemy (in this case Hisballah) which poses both a security threat to both Israel and the wider middle east!

- As for aquiring Palestinian territories what happened has been a great loss, but if the Palestinians accepted the two state solution provided by them in the 1940's; Palestine would have been a country by now.
Remeber many jews bought large swath of coastal land. Other land was aquired through wars fought against them. This method of aquiring land during times of war, has deterred their enemies from attacking. A great example would be Syria; they wouldn't dare fire a single bullet. They have Lebanon for that! Jordan conceded and aknoledged their defeat to Israel, hence signing a peace treaty and moving on!

P.S: stop blaming others for your woes, and start taking responsibility for your own actions. The world would be a much better place that way!

it's clear that you don't know much about palestinian history, Read the books of Ilan Pappe, than we can talk! It was a plan, to erase all Palestinians from Palestine. Not just a war in which things happened, no already in 1947 they started to set up and use plan Delta.

it's clear that you don't know much about palestinian history, Read the books of Ilan Pappe, than we can talk! It was a plan, to erase all Palestinians from Palestine. Not just a war in which things happened, no already in 1947 they started to set up and use plan Delta.

Are you serious???? You really are looking for dirt on Israel under every rock, inside every cave, underneath every pile of sh*t on the ground. You would probably never consider an Israeli to be objective/credible unless he agreed with your views to destroy/delegitimize Israel's destructions (i.e., an extremist).

sorry, but this looks like a weak attempt by hezbollah to put fear in Lebanese people's minds, and make them see no other solution but to support hezbollah, justifying their existence.

Agreed. It leaves me scratching my head.

Report: Israel reassures Lebanon ahead of IDF maneuvers

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1263147898450&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Israel relayed messages of reassurances to Lebanon, via UNIFIL, after the IDF began preparing for military maneuvers that will be held along the Israel-Lebanon border in February, Asharq Al-Awsat reported on Friday.

US President Barack Obama warned Lebanese President Michel Suleiman that Washington would have a hard time trying to stop Israel from military action if Hizbullah obtained anti-aircraft missiles, the London-based Arabic daily added.

Report: Israel reassures Lebanon before IDF exercises

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3834842,00.html

Just days after defense minister's threat to Beirut, Israel clarifies that troop deployment along northern border is for exercise, not incursion into Lebanon. Arab paper reports US warns Beirut: If Hezbollah obtains STA missiles, may not be able to prevent Israeli response

Roee Nahmias
Published: 01.15.10, 12:08 / Israel News

London-based newspaper Asharq Alawsat reported Friday that Israel has assured Lebanon that increased IDF troops and army exercises along the Lebanese border are intended as preparation for military maneuvers, and not as preparation for any incursions into Lebanese territory.

The newspaper said that the message was sent via the United Nations Interim Forces in Lebanon (UNIFIL) in an attempt to prevent increased tension between the two states, which has been running high in recent months due to a number of incidents in southern Lebanon, an increase in Hezbollah activity along the border and reports of its rearmament.

In addition, according to the London paper, US President Barak Obama said to his Lebanese counterpart Michel Suleiman that if Hezbollah succeeds in obtaining surface-to-air missiles, Israel may feel compelled to deploy its military, which will be hard for the US to prevent.

The Lebanese daily an-Nahar reported that US National Security Advisor James Jones will arrive Friday in Beirut, where he is due to meet senior political figures including President Suleiman. The newspaper said that the US visitor and his hosts will discuss the regional situation and the relations between the two states including US military aid to Lebanon.

The message to Lebanon comes just days after the explicit threat from Defense Minister Ehud Barak to Beirut during his recent tour of Israel's northern border region.

"We know Hezbollah is growing stronger with Syria's help, and occasionally with Iran's assistance," Barak said during a visit to an IDF position overlooking Lebanese villages. "We have said before, and we'll say again today, that should the (security) situation deteriorate, we'll hold the Lebanese government and all those who help Hezbollah responsible."

Barak noted that the IDF is well deployed along the border, but that the calm enjoyed in recent years could be broken without warning. "We are here on the northern border, facing Hezbollah positions. I see that the IDF is very well prepared. The quiet here benefits everyone, and we strongly suggest that the other side refrain from disturbing this quiet, which is based, first of all, on deterrence."

Once again your replies guys are very low refrenced, and very closed-minded. I will reply only once though, as i dont find it very entertaining to debate a clear matter with 8 ignorant people on a forum. Furhtermore, you are all behind on the debate since all of you guys failed to reply to my aurgument on the peace matter, this shows me that you have nothing to say about the matter, and of course you are now trying to despertatley change the subject, as long as you guys can not come up with a answer to me an jb_nl's aurgument, you are indeed losing this debate.

@jader

I am sorry, but this article is silly. Stop being so sensationalistic. It doesn't even make sense (on so many levels).

Instead of just spitting out words, try to make your reply have at least a bit of sense in it. Your reply shows you low understanding on the subject!!

I'd like to see that news source you're quoting that misspelled "approaching"! Unless the BIG-RED-SIZE7 title is by you!

Rabih it seems like you are shocked that March 14 media, is acknowledging the terrorst acts of the terrorist state of Israel. Well this confirms what i have been saying, it is pretty obvious Harriri and the March 14 coalition, acknowledges, and dispies the state of Israel, and is aware that they are a country build on terrorism. So in fact when Melkart, John, and Beiruti speak their ignorant words about the terrorist state of Israel, they are not speaking March 14 views, or words, they are speaking their own outrageous wards, and expressing their own outrageous views. This article confirms these facts. It confirms that though we as Lebanese have many domestic disagreements, we are united as a state, with our views about Israel.

Here is my advice to you: Believe half what you see and none what you hear! LOL

hehehe, considering your views and how you and many others are brainwashed by western media outlets that are owned by the same handful of people, this joke makes no sense, and in fact is one that has failed. ;)

I don't have an issue with Hisballah's military tactics, I have an issue with Hisballah's posession of arms outside of the state! You see one can't call oneself a resistence when they only represent a single sect. A resistance has to have a national concensus, and represent the people. Besides what is the point of electing a government, if they're going to act on their own instinct. Besides if the LAF is incapapble in defendin g Lebanon than why is hisballah a seperate entity. If they are truly an independent Lebanese force than why not join force with the national army and improve it. Why seperate and weaken it?

You have a issue with Hezbollah's arms huh?? Well habibi like i said before, without Hezbollah's arms, I would not be having this discussion with you. The Southern Lebanon as of now; 2010 would still be ruins. Our women would still be raped, our men still decapitated, our families still in absolute treachery. Our goods would still be stolen, as well as our homes, farms, food and water still stolen and occupied. Our people would still be isolated from the rest of the country. The people of Southern Lebanon would still be in disbelief, shock, anxiety, depression, and complete financial wreck. Our people would still have their identity stolen from them and We would not have the right to pursuit happiness, our lives would still be ruined. You say our resistance is not justified. If Mexico were to invade and ocupy Texas, rape their women decapitate their men in front of their children, put families in absoulute treachery, apply terror among texans to the upmost degree, the American Army is extremely weak, and Americans not livign in Texas do not give a crap about what is happening; does this not give a justified reason for resistance?? HUHHHHH?????? Now in the future after Mexico every day steals Texas water, land, violtes Texas's air, sea space every day, insults, and tantlaies texans each day, holds thousands of Texan prisoners!! You Chevre must know how it feels to know that your brother, father is in the enemy's hands becuase he fought so you can eat dinner each day. Does this guys, not provide a justified reason for the Texan resistance not to capture a handful of Mexicans for a prisoner swap. Then after all this, considering that Mexico is still each, and every day violeting your safety, souverinty, and cosnidering that you still have memoreis of you wife being raped in front of you eyes, your brother being decaptitated, in front of your nephew!! Considering that your neighbor has statistically violated the most UN resolution's, statistically committed the most, and worst crimes in humanity, for pete's sake when you know that your neighbor has stolen a whole country, and has settled in their homes, and tortured the homeowners, and throw the whole population in a small radius, so they can just hop back over there and once again commit further acts of terrorism. After all of this, you say we don't have the right to bear arms, well think again.


1) It is citing a newspaper, As-Sharq al-Awsat, that probably lacks journalistic objectivity (i.e., it has a decidedly anti-Israel position).

2) If Israel did start a war in Lebanon now or in the near future, I think (but I could be wrong) that a lot of people in Israel would be surprised. No one was surprised when Israel entered Lebanon in 2006 or Gaza in 2008.

3) The last paper that I would expect to have an accurate sense of what is going on in Israel is once called As-Sharq al-Awsat.

4) The only people who would stand to benefit from another war between Israel and Hizbullah, would be Hizbullah and Iran (and maybe Syria too). It would give Hizbullah one more way in which to justify its existance.

5) Israel is known to be good at planting false news stories in the world media. I am sure that a newspaper like As-Sharq al-Awsat would only be too eager to believe them.

6) Unlike 2006 and 2008, I don't think that there would be as much popular support for a war.

You make me sad. I swear you make me sad. Hezbollah will benefit, because it will have another reason to justify its resistance. Boy after all of that i wrote up there^^. After all the terrorism your country has commited you dare, you dare say that we need more reasons to have a "excuse" for resistance. I am extremely offended, by your lack of sense, in fact All Israeli's contradict themselves. They say that the old testament says to take Israel. Well does the old testanment say, to kill the most children and women, does it say to rape women in front of her children, does it say to decapitate men, our cause families and people complete and utter treachery. Does in say to steal and occupy homes, farms, food water, ruins, people's personal belongings, burn religious buildings and religious books, for pete's sake does it say to steal a whole population of their identity. Does it say to PURPOSELY provide people with the up most shock, anxiety, depression, sadness and complete financial wreck. Your military and government will always, every day commit these crimes. They are a criminal army. THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. They need to seek peace with Palestinians. They need to seek peace with Lebanese. They need to be a peace-loving nation. Not a terrorism-loving nation. Peace is everything Southern Lebanese, and Palestains want, we want to stop being tortured and crushed by Israel. Hezbollah in Lebaon has given us that assurance. We will disarm when when the International Community, acts, and holds your terrorists accountable for the crimes they have committed. And halt these actions in the future, and FORCES ISRAEL to make peace. But that can never happen. It can never happen becuase Israel undoubtedly controls the world. Through AIPAC they control America. Through AIPAC they have destroyed two middle eastern countries and utilized them for there financially gain. My friend the question doent lie on Lebanon or Palestinian, IT LIES ON ISRAEL!!

Are you serious???? You really are looking for dirt on Israel under every rock, inside every cave, underneath every pile of sh*t on the ground. You would probably never consider an Israeli to be objective/credible unless he agreed with your views to destroy/delegitimize Israel's destructions (i.e., an extremist).

I assure you dud, he does not need any more dirt on Israel, there is already enough facts about Israeli terrorism ;)

sorry, but this looks like a weak attempt by Hezbollah to put fear in Lebanese people's minds, and make them see no other solution but to support hezbollah, justifying their existence.

Weak attempt by Hezbollah, can you read bro, this was written by Now Lebanon that you oh so desperately embrace.

Dont bother replying guys, if you can not address the points i made above. :)

@jader

What I think you fail to comprehend is that you are in a one-sided hate fest. We didn't go into Lebanon to kill you or to rape your mother or sister(s). Generally, people with such mental disturbances wouldn't even be allowed to serve in the army in the first place.

Let me give you a metaphor. Pretend you are a school kid and you are playing on the playground. And at this playground, there is one kid who is bigger and stronger than everyone else. He sticks to himself and doesn't do anything to anyone. But one day, for whatever reason, you decide to start annoying/harassing this guy (who is much bigger and stronger than you). After a while, he becomes annoyed and asks you to stop. But you refuse. He asks you to stop again. But you annoy him even more. He asks the teachers to intervene. But once they leave, you continue to harass him. So finally he snaps and beats you across the face so hard that you have to be taken to the hospital. The bigger kid never had an issue with you until you refused to stop harassing him. Why did you do it?

Israel's like the big kid; you are Hizbullah. Why start a fight with an opponent who is stronger than you but who doesn't have much interest in fighting?

^^ Are you shitting me man!!! When did Palestine do anything to Israel!! When did Hezbollah do anything to Israel. I am not surprised you have this absurd thought, though for pete's sake you though Hezbollah was created before the occupation. :lol: I have gave you the American metaphor. Your metaphor makes no sense. To use your terms; like someone posted before here, Israel is a spoiled kid!! It can do whatever it wants. You are dismissing everything i wrote up there. What you just wrote, dismissed everything your country has done. Psshhh, are you kidding me man. Israel has constantly committed the crimes, the Lebanese resistance is 1000000 percent justified, your reply makes no sense, reread what i have composed. Your reply truly portrays how insufficent your understanding of the subject is, you still will not accept that you country is based on terrorism, when i have just have you crystal clear facts, that are undeniable on my previous post. You have not replied to me once with facts, not even once. This shows there is not facts on your side of the argument, there is no sense on your side, provide me with sense and facts!!! Dont just desperately blurt out words, and run away from the roots of the discussion.

jader man, dont' u get it? israelis have to justify their criminal acts by any mean...they represent a "nation" wihtout morals, people with no principles, cruel, racist, selfish...watyeen is a good adjective in arabic...never turn ur back on a jew, don't you know that? well not refering to all jews, but to most of them...they came to the ME to stay yes or yes...their lack of capacity to coexist amongst others made them dream of being powerful and now they hit those who threaten them without mercy...kids, elder, women and men, animals, land, orchards, wells, forests...they burn anything that stands between them and their dreams of power...bottomline, they came to the ME to build a jewish super power, and a few arabs are no match...we tasted this cruelty for 20 years of brutal occupation, 5 or 6 devastating wars, we lost thousands under their bombs...and still some lebanese comrades will come teaching lessons...don't you see? to all brutal act they are quick to give an excuse...

- stealing palestine was fair cause they suffered a lot in WWII, Palestine didn't exist and God gave them the land
-killing pals was ok, cause many revolted and used "terrorist tactics" to try keeping thie land
-occupying arab land was a fair result of several brutal arab offensives against poor jews
-keeping the land is justified to create a safety ring and protect israel
-occupying lebanon was justified cause the pals were causing trouble...and killing 2000 lebanese in Saida the day they reached the city was ok cause some were resisting and shooting back
-qana massacres were justified cause hizbullah was launching missiles from the UN HQ there
-the Gaza siege and massacre is justified cause the Pals voted for Hamas, a terrorist org killing jews
-the expansion in the west bank is justified cause the settlements grow naturally and Jerusalem will be emptied of arabs cause God again said it's jewish
-of course the wall, the checkpoints etc... are also there to avoid a new intifada...

What do our lebanese comrades say? If Hizbullah was there Israel woudln't attack us...well hizbullah is a result of 2 thigs that none of you ever gave a damn about : ) 20 years of brutal and murderous occupation of south lebanon and 2) the racism of the lebanese state and the isolation of lebanese shiites away from power


face it, be honest and accept it...Trying to disarm hizb through aggressive means will bring chaos to you...and by the way, know that ur neighbour to the south is a criminal state which someday will be prosecuted for war crimes and be mentioned in the history books as a racist state that brought nothing but death and blood...

u israeli, give the pals their land and rights back, treat them like humans and let them live in peace...and then maybe u find a future for u in the ME or in Mars...God knows

j....ws

Are you Iranian or Palestinian?

it's clear that you don't know much about palestinian history, Read the books of Ilan Pappe, than we can talk! It was a plan, to erase all Palestinians from Palestine. Not just a war in which things happened, no already in 1947 they started to set up and use plan Delta.

I am well aware of jewish extremists who had bad intentions from the very begining, however the Palestinians had the opportunity to form a country, but they didn't. Either way its 2010 there is roughly 6 million jews living in Israel, we can't rewrite history we need to move on.

^^ Are you shitting me man!!! When did Palestine do anything to Israel!! When did Hezbollah do anything to Israel. I am not surprised you have this absurd thought, though for pete's sake you though Hezbollah was created before the occupation. :lol: I have gave you the American metaphor. Your metaphor makes no sense. To use your terms; like someone posted before here, Israel is a spoiled kid!! It can do whatever it wants. You are dismissing everything i wrote up there. What you just wrote, dismissed everything your country has done. Psshhh, are you kidding me man. Israel has constantly committed the crimes, the Lebanese resistance is 1000000 percent justified, your reply makes no sense, reread what i have composed. Your reply truly portrays how insufficent your understanding of the subject is, you still will not accept that you country is based on terrorism, when i have just have you crystal clear facts, that are undeniable on my previous post. You have not replied to me once with facts, not even once. This shows there is not facts on your side of the argument, there is no sense on your side, provide me with sense and facts!!! Dont just desperately blurt out words, and run away from the roots of the discussion.

They continuously launched rockets at Israel, made incursions and kidnapped soldiers. That stopped after 2006 when Israel put an end to it.

Man rou7 nte7er. "They launched rockets at israel' ??? What did you expect them to do. It's Hezeb who liberated South Lebanon in 2000, but there were still many prisoners in the jails across the borders, and I don't remember that israel was ready to give them back. Do you want them to sit there and watch their people getting tortured there! I bet you wore black when the two poor innocent soldiers were kidnapped in 2006. You don't care about lebanese prisoners in israeli jails, but some people have relatives there and they counted on the Hezb to bring them back, and they did! So stop talking as if Hezbollah were bad people who attack israel for the sake of doing it.

Man rou7 nte7er. "They launched rockets at israel' ??? What did you expect them to do. It's Hezeb who liberated South Lebanon in 2000, but there were still many prisoners in the jails across the borders, and I don't remember that israel was ready to give them back. Do you want them to sit there and watch their people getting tortured there! I bet you wore black when the two poor innocent soldiers were kidnapped in 2006. You don't care about lebanese prisoners in israeli jails, but some people have relatives there and they counted on the Hezb to bring them back, and they did! So stop talking as if Hezbollah were bad people who attack israel for the sake of doing it.

So you think it was worth starting a war which killed 1000+ Lebanese in order to return maybe a handful of Lebanese prisoners (mostly corpses) back to Lebanon? You know, that's why you have a government... to TALK, to use diplomatic options.

BTW, Samir Quntar should have returned to Lebanon as a mutilated corpse. He's lucky that he was treated so well in Israel (did you see how fat he was and how well dressed he was upon his release?), because I can't imagine that there is a single person in Israel who wouldn't have killed him given the chance.

Basically, Hizbullah started a war in order to get back a child murderer and at what cost? Lebanon's destruction. 1,000+ deaths. 100,000+ displaced. 10,000+ homeless. Brilliance if I've ever seen it.

I am under no circumstances taking part in this debate, I am not even reading the posts because they're just " DEJA-VU ", yet i just have a question for you Leb.fr, what about the hundreds of Lebanese prisoners in Syria ??? oh let me guess Hezballah doesn't give a damn about those people because most of them are Christians huh ? or furthermore because they're being held in their allies' prisons ? you said it yourself they wanted to bring back their people from Israeli prisons, not Lebanese people, therefore don't go claiming that hezballah's main concern is Lebanon and its people, Hezballah has one enemy and one cause and that's to fight Israel and the Zionists regardless if any ARAB or MUSLIM country occupied Lebanon or threatened it or detained its people in jails, I am here not defending Israel as i will never ever do, because hadn't it been for Israel we wouldn't have had all the problems we're having now in the first place...

It's not Hezb's fault that 1000+ were killed! If you had given him back that wouldn't have happened! Listen I'm going to stop here.

leb10452 : So because there are prisoners in syria we should forget those who are in israel?

And hey when I say "their people" I mean south lebanon people ok?

And guess what! You(pl) want Hezb to disappear, but when it will, there will be another party that represents shiaas, and that will have the same demands as Hezb.


And you are right abt your last phrase. Ppl say palestinians started the war. I kind agree, BUT what were palestinians doing in Leb in the first place?? Surprise! We have a new neighbor in the south who chased them from their country! So the whole problems are because of israel from the first place, not hezb or palestinians. And trust me we all want the creation of a palestinian state - I dunno who always say we dnt care abt palestine and all, but we have refugees in our country and let's be honest, they're not exactly welcomed here, so in order to "get rid of them" israel should get the **** out of palestinians territories, but NO why would they stop problems they cause in the Middle East?

Halla2 3anjad mab2a 7a ektob hon :P

hehehe this is my last post too ....

Leb.fr, it's quiet the opposite you see, just because there are prisoners in Israel we shouldn't forget about those in Syria, I never said hezballah shouldn't have got those prisoners back, of course it should have... but a party like hezballah who claims that they only fight Israel because the Israelis occupy our lands and had Lebanese prisoners by other words they're just defending Lebanon and its rights, if this is really what they believe and what they fight for, then they should apply it on all countries that violate Lebanon and its rights ...

It's not Hezb's fault that 1000+ were killed! If you had given him back that wouldn't have happened! Listen I'm going to stop here.

In all fairness, didnt Nasrallah say publically that if he knew the consequences he wouldnt have started the war?

So are all Lebanese prisoners in Israel now released?

I am under no circumstances taking part in this debate, I am not even reading the posts because they're just " DEJA-VU ", yet i just have a question for you Leb.fr, what about the hundreds of Lebanese prisoners in Syria ??? oh let me guess Hezballah doesn't give a damn about those people because most of them are Christians huh ? or furthermore because they're being held in their allies' prisons ? you said it yourself they wanted to bring back their people from Israeli prisons, not Lebanese people, therefore don't go claiming that hezballah's main concern is Lebanon and its people, Hezballah has one enemy and one cause and that's to fight Israel and the Zionists regardless if any ARAB or MUSLIM country occupied Lebanon or threatened it or detained its people in jails, I am here not defending Israel as i will never ever do, because hadn't it been for Israel we wouldn't have had all the problems we're having now in the first place...


Exactly. March8 always ignores this issue and they can never answer this question.

Man rou7 nte7er. "They launched rockets at israel' ??? What did you expect them to do. It's Hezeb who liberated South Lebanon in 2000, but there were still many prisoners in the jails across the borders, and I don't remember that israel was ready to give them back. Do you want them to sit there and watch their people getting tortured there! I bet you wore black when the two poor innocent soldiers were kidnapped in 2006. You don't care about lebanese prisoners in israeli jails, but some people have relatives there and they counted on the Hezb to bring them back, and they did! So stop talking as if Hezbollah were bad people who attack israel for the sake of doing it.

Those rockets could have killed innocent lives, arab lives that is! what did they ever do to you? besides rou7 nte7er is uncalled for! Beiruti I don't think we should tolerate such language in here! to you Leb FR I value my life and the lives of others unlike your sorry ass!

Oh my God!! I just insulted you!!! :rofl: Oh and "unlike your sorry ass" Beiruti I don't think we should tolerate such a language in here!

It's not Hezb's fault that 1000+ were killed! If you had given him back that wouldn't have happened! Listen I'm going to stop here.

BTW, if it makes you feel better, most of the civilians killed in northern Israel (by Hizb's rockets) were Israeli Arabs (i.e., Palestinians). Isn't this kind of hypocritical for Hizbullah to kill Palestinians?

Also, what about the Lebanese prisoners in Syria? Why doesn't Hizb try to liberate them as well? How can you sit here and try to BS people that Hizb is acting in the interests of all Lebanese, when it selectively ignores the atrocities committed by Syria against Lebanon and its people?

Of course we give a damn Lebkm, they are Lebanese, but we as Southern Lebanese have enough to worry about considering the strongest aggressive military in the world is our neighbor, you cant expect Hezbollah to try to fight syria. Yes, Syria has done so deep shit to Lebanese we know that, but we can not deny their aid, because our lives depend on it. And i dont think currently March 14 is in the positiion to lecture March 8 about Syria, considering the current situation with March 14, and Syria ;)

Oh my God!! I just insulted you!!! :rofl: Oh and "unlike your sorry ass" Beiruti I don't think we should tolerate such a language in here!

Sounds like you are trying hard!

Oh my God!! I just insulted you!!! :rofl: Oh and "unlike your sorry ass" Beiruti I don't think we should tolerate such a language in here!

Both of you are out of line. Please just stop - I really dont feel like handing out infractions again.

Sounds like you are trying hard!

That's called sarcasm.

Leb.fr, why in the name of the lord you only talk about the south and its people, what about the other parts of Lebanon? what about Baalbeck ? do you know that more than 70% of hezballah's MARTYRS are from Baalbeck ??? what about the occupation and humiliation that my city and other cities in Lebanon faced by the Syrians?? obviously people in Baalback have disregarded the syrian occupation and humiliation just to help the southern people and to liberate the south ... and in return all you can think about is the south and its people... what about us ?? what about the sacrifices we made for your sake ?? i don't even see you mentioning it ... and just for your info for the million times i am a shi'i, and i don't care about a political movement called 14 of march and whether they are getting good relations with Syria, I have principles that don't change according to what a politician or another says or does, Syria is to me just like Israel is to you, only that i too think that Israel is an enemy of Lebanon, and i don't want to be Syria's enemy forever, but just when they stop interfering in my country i will be ok with having good relations with the Syrian regime ....

Are you Iranian or Palestinian?

i am an educated citizen from a civilised country with a deep sense of humanity. something you and ur people are not too familiar with...

i am an educated citizen from a civilised country with a deep sense of humanity. something you and ur people are not too familiar with...

Cute. But you didn't answer the question. I guess you must be ashamed of your nationality. At least I am proud of my country which you, incorrectly, insinuate as "uncivilized."

guys can we stop this endless conv i mean our politicians aren't able to solve their own problems how are we supposed to solve or even discuss theirs if sometimes they dt even know whats going on :P lol
teklo 3a alla:P

Man rou7 nte7er. "They launched rockets at israel' ??? What did you expect them to do. It's Hezeb who liberated South Lebanon in 2000, but there were still many prisoners in the jails across the borders, and I don't remember that israel was ready to give them back. Do you want them to sit there and watch their people getting tortured there! I bet you wore black when the two poor innocent soldiers were kidnapped in 2006. You don't care about lebanese prisoners in israeli jails, but some people have relatives there and they counted on the Hezb to bring them back, and they did! So stop talking as if Hezbollah were bad people who attack israel for the sake of doing it.

So having prisoners across the border justified firing rockets?
how come hezbollah didnt and doesnt still fire rockets at syria who still have lebanese prisoners in their jails?

(not the mention what the syrians did to the lebanese during the war, it seems hezbollah has absolutely no problem with them, yet jader constantly brings in the "rape, theft, killing" that always Israel did... hmm how come?)


(edit: sorry Leb10452 already brought this up)

i am an educated citizen from a civilised country with a deep sense of humanity. something you and ur people are not too familiar with...



statistically actualy, israel is far more educated and civilized than most if not all arab countires. i dunno about humanity though, never been there. :dunno:

^^ He is talking violence-wise dud.

Lebkm, i actually LOVE baalaback people, to me they are some of the coolest people in Lebanon, their attitude is awesome, they are always so strong and brave, and their dabke is the greatest in the world. Like i said before Syria has done some deep shit to Lebanon. But in no context can you expect Hezbollah to attempt to fight against them. They have the most violent, and strongest military in the world to worry about. Hezbollah supporters recognize the Syrian violence, but they share mutual views about Israel, so Hezbollah is not going to deny aid from Syria. Like Sayyad Hassan Nassralah said on yesterday, "Hezbollah, and Lebanon in no way, are proxies, or trademarks of Iran and Syria, in fact this would denature Hezbollah it self. We are a Lebanese resistance group, that only accepts military aid from the two countries. Nothing more."

i dt like to talk politics but i must say that hezbollah is an ally of syria and iran they worth nth without those 2 countries!

second of all john2890, i guess lebanon and israel are in a conflict why should it be acceptable for israel to break and violate the lebanese territories kill lebanese people or kidnap them and isn't it acceptable for us to do this. I know hezbollah is a militia but in case of a war lebanon is only 1 community.
Kidnapping those 2 soldiers of course was a decision made by iran to test her weapons using the lebanese hostages in israel as an excuse. But still destroying all lebanon, killing innocent civilians, destroying all bridges, Ambulances, lebanese army's bases, all airports and ports, oil refunds.... isn't acceptable either. If a militia kidnapped 2 of your soldiers you should fight those militians not destroying the whole country and not even searching for those soldiers.

They hate each other its not war anymore it became politics rescuing soldiers isn't by destroying the hell out of lebanon. Lebanon was facing a pure touristic summer and was somehow stealing israel's tourists. Moreover i don't think destroying lebanese factories means rescuing soldiers. Factories whose been destroyed were competing israel's products in europe. Is this acceptable i dt think so .

i dt like to talk politics but i must say that hezbollah is an ally of syria and iran they worth nth without those 2 countries!

second of all john2890, i guess lebanon and israel are in a conflict why should it be acceptable for israel to break and violate the lebanese territories kill lebanese people or kidnap them and isn't it acceptable for us to do this. I know hezbollah is a militia but in case of a war lebanon is only 1 community.
Kidnapping those 2 soldiers of course was a decision made by iran to test her weapons using the lebanese hostages in israel as an excuse. But still destroying all lebanon, killing innocent civilians, destroying all bridges, Ambulances, lebanese army's bases, all airports and ports, oil refunds.... isn't acceptable either. If a militia kidnapped 2 of your soldiers you should fight those militians not destroying the whole country and not even searching for those soldiers.

They hate each other its not war anymore it became politics rescuing soldiers isn't by destroying the hell out of lebanon. Lebanon was facing a pure touristic summer and was somehow stealing israel's tourists. Moreover i don't think destroying lebanese factories means rescuing soldiers. Factories whose been destroyed were competing israel's products in europe. Is this acceptable i dt think so .

I've heard this statement before. That Israel was somehow "jealous" of Lebanon having tourism. However, it is something I've never heard in Israel - only Lebanese friends told me so I do not really believe it that much. Especially not as a reason - no matter how secondary - for war.
Tourists arriving from Lebanon and Israel are relatively different in my opinion.

Cute. But you didn't answer the question. I guess you must be ashamed of your nationality. At least I am proud of my country which you, incorrectly, insinuate as "uncivilized."

since you don't seem to get it i'll give you a hint of where i hail from...2 years and a half ago your jets blew the f*** out of my village and well i won't elaborate further on all the crimes u committed there cause i know some lebanese are too familiar with them, and others don't care much, so i'll spare you the bloody details. is it a bit more clear now?

by the way, i am pretty sure that u are proud of your "country"...in fact all israelis are...ur survival as a supremacist and pure jewish state relies on the brutality with which you keep the arabs at check. For your nation to survive in the ME in the long term you need 2 things

- Get rid of the Pals, that includes the israeli-arabs, the pals in the WB and the refugees in Lebanon, Syria etc...u got rid of many Pals and u're already playing ur cards to allow their naturalisation in Lebanon. Of course no refugee will ever get the right of return, not even to the WB...cause basically the WB will be a part of israel as the reactivation of the settlement expansion shows.

- Build up a mighty army and used it with no mercy against any arab "and his family"...in fact let me add that Israel has set new standards worldwide in the way Authorities react against violent actions, no need to say that those standards are not precisely soft. When a rebel crosses the line, eliminate him, and bring down his home, arrest his parents and brothers and teach them a good lesson.

- Stir conflict, fuel sectarian wars, use the media and ur mighty agencies to divide the arab nations, break them up in pieces, in small ethnically/religiously uniform states unable to fight back. If division is not possible, let those resisting nations get stuck in time...support blockades, deny them technology, build accusations against them...

In the long run, of course not in the coming 5 or 10 years, but in the next 50 or 70 years, if Israel is still where it is today, it will need to expand. Not to mention what we all know, that reaching peace deals with egypt or jordan or even lebanon will never be a guarantee of anything. As long as you wish to stay in the ME you'll have to fight in all fronts, behind the stage etc... if someday Jordan or Egypt become superpowers and build strong armies, the peace treaties you might have reached 50 years ago with the corrupt elite ruling back then will be worth the paper they were signed in.

since you don't seem to get it i'll give you a hint of where i hail from...2 years and a half ago your jets blew the f*** out of my village and well i won't elaborate further on all the crimes u committed there cause i know some lebanese are too familiar with them, and others don't care much, so i'll spare you the bloody details. is it a bit more clear now?

by the way, i am pretty sure that u are proud of your "country"...in fact all israelis are...ur survival as a supremacist and pure jewish state relies on the brutality with which you keep the arabs at check. For your nation to survive in the ME in the long term you need 2 things

- Get rid of the Pals, that includes the israeli-arabs, the pals in the WB and the refugees in Lebanon, Syria etc...u got rid of many Pals and u're already playing ur cards to allow their naturalisation in Lebanon. Of course no refugee will ever get the right of return, not even to the WB...cause basically the WB will be a part of israel as the reactivation of the settlement expansion shows.

- Build up a mighty army and used it with no mercy against any arab "and his family"...in fact let me add that Israel has set new standards worldwide in the way Authorities react against violent actions, no need to say that those standards are not precisely soft. When a rebel crosses the line, eliminate him, and bring down his home, arrest his parents and brothers and teach them a good lesson.

- Stir conflict, fuel sectarian wars, use the media and ur mighty agencies to divide the arab nations, break them up in pieces, in small ethnically/religiously uniform states unable to fight back. If division is not possible, let those resisting nations get stuck in time...support blockades, deny them technology, build accusations against them...

In the long run, of course not in the coming 5 or 10 years, but in the next 50 or 70 years, if Israel is still where it is today, it will need to expand. Not to mention what we all know, that reaching peace deals with egypt or jordan or even lebanon will never be a guarantee of anything. As long as you wish to stay in the ME you'll have to fight in all fronts, behind the stage etc... if someday Jordan or Egypt become superpowers and build strong armies, the peace treaties you might have reached 50 years ago with the corrupt elite ruling back then will be worth the paper they were signed in.

In that case, cheers to you! :cheers:

^^

and to you too mate :cheers:

hope that someday all Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are able to go back to live in Palestine in peace and recover the lands that were stolen from them. This way we, the lebanese, will be able to live in peace and rebuild our once beautifull country. I hope your leaders are arrested and put on trial in an international tribunal for the war crimes they commited in the last 60 years and their assets used to finance the rebuilding of infrastructure destroyed in Lebanon and to compensate the families of the victims. Once this happens you'll be more than welcome to be part of the ME community...you could stay and live in peace with the Pals...maybe u can create a new country all of u called Isrestine, or Palael...jews and palestinians coexisting together...are u a young liberal? If so, you should share my dreams...

Muslim accuses Christian teacher of snatching veil

TRIPOLI: A Lebanese Muslim man said Friday he has filed a complaint against a Christian teacher for trying to snatch a veil from his daughter’s head, a sensitive issue in this multi-confessional nation. “After the year-end holidays, a Christian teacher tried to tear off the veil of my 12-year-old daughter, Ghiwa, and banned her from entering the classroom veiled,” Ahmad al-Baarin said.
“The teacher made offensive remarks … and tried to snatch the veil. He even made her fall over by pushing her when she tried to defend herself,” he said.
Baarin said he has also filed a complaint against the school’s director for complicity after the principal “expressed solidarity with the teacher.”
Contacted by AFP, director Yussef Beshara insisted “the student was not mistreated or forced to remove her veil” at the public school in the mixed region of Kura whose teachers are all Christian and half its pupils Muslim.
But the father won support from the Muslim community.
“This case is contrary to the law and the spirit of coexistence in the country. It undermines Muslims,” said Ihab Nafeh, president of the Muslim students association in northern Lebanon.
The Constitution bans any abuse of religious symbols in Lebanon, a country of 18 different religious communities.
Baarin meanwhile told AFP he had moved his daughter and son Khaled, 8, to a new school saying: “My children have a right to education and at the same time to preserve their religious beliefs.” – AFP


The really Interesting thing here is that the school I attended a few years back was located in Koura, and the teachers were all Christian, and the pupils were half Muslim I wonder if they are talking about my school :O

Muslim accuses Christian teacher of snatching veil

TRIPOLI: A Lebanese Muslim man said Friday he has filed a complaint against a Christian teacher for trying to snatch a veil from his daughter’s head, a sensitive issue in this multi-confessional nation. “After the year-end holidays, a Christian teacher tried to tear off the veil of my 12-year-old daughter, Ghiwa, and banned her from entering the classroom veiled,” Ahmad al-Baarin said.
“The teacher made offensive remarks … and tried to snatch the veil. He even made her fall over by pushing her when she tried to defend herself,” he said.
Baarin said he has also filed a complaint against the school’s director for complicity after the principal “expressed solidarity with the teacher.”
Contacted by AFP, director Yussef Beshara insisted “the student was not mistreated or forced to remove her veil” at the public school in the mixed region of Kura whose teachers are all Christian and half its pupils Muslim.
But the father won support from the Muslim community.
“This case is contrary to the law and the spirit of coexistence in the country. It undermines Muslims,” said Ihab Nafeh, president of the Muslim students association in northern Lebanon.
The Constitution bans any abuse of religious symbols in Lebanon, a country of 18 different religious communities.
Baarin meanwhile told AFP he had moved his daughter and son Khaled, 8, to a new school saying: “My children have a right to education and at the same time to preserve their religious beliefs.” – AFP


The really Interesting thing here is that the school I attended a few years back was located in Koura, and the teachers were all Christian, and the pupils were half Muslim I wonder if they are talking about my school :O

i have a feeling there's something much more than the teacher simply not wanting the girl to wear the veil.
In a school where half the pupils are muslim, i find it hard to believe that this 12 year old girl happened to be the only one wearing the veil.
So that teachers aggression could have been something that goes back personally between him and that girl and her father.
then the father used that incident to get money or something.

anyway, the teacher should be fired or suspended.

Muslim accuses Christian teacher of snatching veil

TRIPOLI: A Lebanese Muslim man said Friday he has filed a complaint against a Christian teacher for trying to snatch a veil from his daughter’s head, a sensitive issue in this multi-confessional nation. “After the year-end holidays, a Christian teacher tried to tear off the veil of my 12-year-old daughter, Ghiwa, and banned her from entering the classroom veiled,” Ahmad al-Baarin said.
“The teacher made offensive remarks … and tried to snatch the veil. He even made her fall over by pushing her when she tried to defend herself,” he said.
Baarin said he has also filed a complaint against the school’s director for complicity after the principal “expressed solidarity with the teacher.”
Contacted by AFP, director Yussef Beshara insisted “the student was not mistreated or forced to remove her veil” at the public school in the mixed region of Kura whose teachers are all Christian and half its pupils Muslim.
But the father won support from the Muslim community.
“This case is contrary to the law and the spirit of coexistence in the country. It undermines Muslims,” said Ihab Nafeh, president of the Muslim students association in northern Lebanon.
The Constitution bans any abuse of religious symbols in Lebanon, a country of 18 different religious communities.
Baarin meanwhile told AFP he had moved his daughter and son Khaled, 8, to a new school saying: “My children have a right to education and at the same time to preserve their religious beliefs.” – AFP


The really Interesting thing here is that the school I attended a few years back was located in Koura, and the teachers were all Christian, and the pupils were half Muslim I wonder if they are talking about my school :O

Do you go to Koura International School ?

^^ YES :D (Internation School El Koura, or IS)

I am well aware of jewish extremists who had bad intentions from the very begining, however the Palestinians had the opportunity to form a country, but they didn't. Either way its 2010 there is roughly 6 million jews living in Israel, we can't rewrite history we need to move on.

you're a good stand up comedian :lol: Or is it actually your job?

How to form a country if you, at the same time are being ethnical cleansed with plan delta, being kicked out and murdered :lol:

It's the same thing as saying that the jews could have formed a strong army and stop hitler during the holocaust, also nonsense

^^ YES :D (Internation School El Koura, or IS)

they're talking about a public school, not a private one.

^^ oh :cripes:

Jb_nl, as a matter of fact Arabs and the Palestinians have been given more than a chance to form an independent state of Palestine, but they refused to do so.. I am not defending Israel in no way, i am just stating historical facts, in 1948 the United nation proposed the partition of Palestine, to make two independent states one for the Jews called Israel and one for the Arabs called Palestine, the Arabs refused that because they wanted the whole land ( i am not discussing the legitimacy of the state of Israel and that the whole land belongs to the Palestinians, that's a different issue ) after the six days war in 1967 in which Israel gained control of the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights, the Soviet premier Aleksei Kosygin met with the US president Lyndon B. Johnson at the Glassboro summit, after the meeting both parties agreed that Israel withdraws back to the 1948 borders, an agreement that was turned down and refused by " Jamal Abdel Nasser " missing a second opportunity to form an independent state of Palestine, and after the last Israeli expansion in the West bank which is still expanding more and more now you hear everyone talking about forming a state of Palestine based upon the 1967 borders, and if you notice the more opportunities Palestinians miss to form a state of their own, the smaller this promised state of theirs is getting and the bigger the state of Israel is becoming... I am afraid one day the Palestinians will reach a point where they would say we want to form a state within the 2020 borders where the state of Palestine will be no more than 500 Sq KM ....

you're a good stand up comedian :lol: Or is it actually your job?

How to form a country if you, at the same time are being ethnical cleansed with plan delta, being kicked out and murdered :lol:

It's the same thing as saying that the jews could have formed a strong army and stop hitler during the holocaust, also nonsense

There are six million jews in Israel what are you gonna do with them? Besides The Palestinian issue isn't my problem I am more concerned with my own country. I sympathise with the Palestinians and all, but I'll leave the Palestinian conflict to the Israelis and the Palestinians. Leave Lebanon out of it!

You don't want to understand there are Palestinians in our country do you?

6 million jews in israel? What to do with them? Easy? Let's make up history again and the world will be in eternal peace :D

You don't want to understand there are Palestinians in our country do you?

6 million jews in israel? What to do with them? Easy? Let's make up history again and the world will be in eternal peace :D

Leb FR our only concern are the Palestinian refugees residing in Lebanon. Having said that, we shouldn't be concerned with Israeli/Palestinian issues. I understand that creating a Plaestinian state, could essentially mean the return of palestinian refugees. But what about refugees elsewhere? Do we know for a fact that they will be returned to Israel or the Palestinian terratories. We don't know that! As matter of fact I highly doubt that they'll ever be settled in the west bank, maybe some if we are lucky!
So I suggest in the meantime, we take control of our own country, secure our borders, disram the plaestinians, and provide them with an ultimatum. Either you live under our roof obiding by our laws, or face deporation. Perhaps we can negotiate with other countries to settle some of the palestinians, not by force obviously! But you can't blame the Israelis when they bomb your house and kill your family, if you are going to threaten their existence. They have a right to self defence! Capiche?

Nop. No and never will Capiche. "slef defence" and "israel" can't be put together, and they are two complete separate things.

And they will face deportation to were? Palestine? That's impossible because some jews took the control of their land. So they have no choice expect staying in Lebanese until a Palestinian state is created. And come on! Negotiate so they can settle in another country? They are humans goddamit! You live in the US right? Imagine the US decide to deport you to Canada or Mexico for example, and you can't do anything about it? Do you find this normal? I don't!

Basically today we have people who don't belong to anywhere. I don't know who the ONU accepts this, but it can't stay forever.

Oh and let them bomb your house and kill your family, then come back to talk.

I am a US citizen I have a right to live here! The Palestinians are refugees, this is why we negotiate settling them in other countries that will grant them citizenship that way they aren't stateless, and their quality of life improves. I think this is very humane! Not sure why you think it isn't you're not even making any sence! Leaving them in Lebanon for god knows how long, isn't humane! I don't think it's fair to hold the Palestinians hostage until a state of their own is formed! but when that does happen they are free to settle back in their country on their own will. This way a Palestinian chooses to live where they want to.

P.S: my house was bombed by the Syrians!

There are six million jews in Israel what are you gonna do with them? Besides The Palestinian issue isn't my problem I am more concerned with my own country. I sympathise with the Palestinians and all, but I'll leave the Palestinian conflict to the Israelis and the Palestinians. Leave Lebanon out of it!

Just let them live over there. Even if the hindu's want to see it as a religious place they can live over there too :lol: everyone should be able to live together there. That is wat should have happened in 1947/1948. The state of Palestine, consisting out of jews, muslims, christians, druz, atheist and whatever else, living together, working together and having a government together.

Instead of murdering and kicking out all the non-jews and creating a "jewish state".

Just let them live over there. Even if the hindu's want to see it as a religious place they can live over there too :lol: everyone should be able to live together there. That is wat should have happened in 1947/1948. The state of Palestine, consisting out of jews, muslims, christians, druz, atheist and whatever else, living together, working together and having a government together.

Instead of murdering and kicking out all the non-jews and creating a "jewish state".

you're missing the point, we can discuss the oppression of people throughout the world if you would like? I am not justifying what the Israelis have done? But what I am saying is that Lebanon should not suffer as a consequence. Afterall we need to look for our own interests first. Our only dilemma is the Palestinian refugees inside Lebanon, what happens beyond that is not our business! I don't see Syria, UAE, or Qatar doing anything. why should Lebanon?

I am a US citizen I have a right to live here! The Palestinians are refugees, this is why we negotiate settling them in other countries that will grant them citizenship that way they aren't stateless, and their quality of life improves. I think this is very humane! Not sure why you think it isn't you're not even making any sence! Leaving them in Lebanon for god knows how long, isn't humane! I don't think it's fair to hold the Palestinians hostage until a state of their own is formed! but when that does happen they are free to settle back in their country on their own will. This way a Palestinian chooses to live where they want to.

P.S: my house was bombed by the Syrians!

We can improve their quality of life without giving them citizenship. I think it’s inhuman how they by law cant improve their standard of livin'.

The majority of Palestinians in Lebanon are born in Lebanon. I know personally Palestinians that refer their home country as Lebanon.

About 50 years all of them will call themselves lebanese. Be a realist and realize they are here to stay forever, sad but true.
No country will take them in, because they wont benefit any country.

All this is to blame on the concept of Zionism. That’s why Lebanon is a part of the Palestinian- Israel conflict.

We can improve their quality of life without giving them citizenship. I think it’s inhuman how they by law cant improve their standard of livin'.

The majority of Palestinians in Lebanon are born in Lebanon. I know personally Palestinians that refer their home country as Lebanon.

About 50 years all of them will call themselves lebanese. Be a realist and realize they are here to stay forever, sad but true.
No country will take them in, because they wont benefit any country.

All this is to blame on the concept of Zionism. That’s why Lebanon is a part of the Palestinian- Israel conflict.

R9 I don't mind inproving their lives in Lebanon, But who is gonna pay for it? Also what makes you think that no one will take them in have we tried?

Because we share GEOGRAPHIC BORDERS with them. Because Palestinians had no choice but coming to Lebanon in the first place, it's a historical fact. You know what UAE and QATAR looked like when the whole issue started 60 years ago right? You're not getting my point anyway. You think it's that easy to decide of the sore of an entire nation? You think taking them to KSA or Syria because they're plenty of space there is a solution? The only way to put an end to the entire region's crisis is creating TWO SEPARATE STATES, Palestine and israel. but as long as you're talking about israeli "self-defence and right to kill my family" there's no way we're getting any closer to that solution. And trust me when I tell you that israel isn't making any effort to make this solution possible, because all they care about is killing more Palestinian, "defending themselves".

You can't just say Lebanon has to stay out of this. It's a regional issue, not just a war opposing two countries.

Anyway, I'm so glad it's snowing in Lebanon right now!

you're missing the point, we can discuss the oppression of people throughout the world if you would like? I am not justifying what the Israelis have done? But what I am saying is that Lebanon should not suffer as a consequence. Afterall we need to look for our own interests first. Our only dilemma is the Palestinian refugees inside Lebanon, what happens beyond that is not our business! I don't see Syria, UAE, or Qatar doing anything. why should Lebanon?

hmm, that's a good argument? So because all the others, the USA etc. aren't doing anything we also shouldn't act? I think we should think for ourselves and take our own moral responsibility instead of constantly pointing at others and blaiming others.

Some palestinians I know that live in lebanon or have family over there see most of their future over there. Wouldn't the situation stabilise if they would also get a lebanese pasport etc? Investments in their quarters and let the camps integrate into the other quarters? For Jordan the nationality issue worked when they gave them a jordanian pasport.

Because we share GEOGRAPHIC BORDERS with them. Because Palestinians had no choice but coming to Lebanon in the first place, it's a historical fact. You know what UAE and QATAR looked like when the whole issue started 60 years ago right? You're not getting my point anyway. You think it's that easy to decide of the sore of an entire nation? You think taking them to KSA or Syria because they're plenty of space there is a solution? The only way to put an end to the entire region's crisis is creating TWO SEPARATE STATES, Palestine and israel. but as long as you're talking about israeli "self-defence and right to kill my family" there's no way we're getting any closer to that solution. And trust me when I tell you that israel isn't making any effort to make this solution possible, because all they care about is killing more Palestinian, "defending themselves".

You can't just say Lebanon has to stay out of this. It's a regional issue, not just a war opposing two countries.

Anyway, I'm so glad it's snowing in Lebanon right now!


you're totally right!

About 50 years all of them will call themselves lebanese. Be a realist and realize they are here to stay forever, sad but true.
No country will take them in, because they wont benefit any country.


And that's why the sooner they go back to where they belong, the better it is for us!

Think of all the developments we can have instead of Sabra and Chatila camps in Beirut! (what? We're on a skyscrapers forum :D)

Because we share GEOGRAPHIC BORDERS with them. Because Palestinians had no choice but coming to Lebanon in the first place, it's a historical fact. You know what UAE and QATAR looked like when the whole issue started 60 years ago right? You're not getting my point anyway. You think it's that easy to decide of the sore of an entire nation? You think taking them to KSA or Syria because they're plenty of space there is a solution? The only way to put an end to the entire region's crisis is creating TWO SEPARATE STATES, Palestine and israel. but as long as you're talking about israeli "self-defence and right to kill my family" there's no way we're getting any closer to that solution. And trust me when I tell you that israel isn't making any effort to make this solution possible, because all they care about is killing more Palestinian, "defending themselves".

You can't just say Lebanon has to stay out of this. It's a regional issue, not just a war opposing two countries.

Anyway, I'm so glad it's snowing in Lebanon right now!

So we should get involved because we share cultural and geographical ties? At our expense? meaning getting bombed, hurting our economy? etc?

hmm, that's a good argument? So because all the others, the USA etc. aren't doing anything we also shouldn't act? I think we should think for ourselves and take our own moral responsibility instead of constantly pointing at others and blaiming others.

Some palestinians I know that live in lebanon or have family over there see most of their future over there. Wouldn't the situation stabilise if they would also get a lebanese pasport etc? Investments in their quarters and let the camps integrate into the other quarters? For Jordan the nationality issue worked when they gave them a jordanian pasport.

JB_NL are you not aware that Lebanon is very different from Jordan. The Palestinians in Jordan make up the bulk of the population there, don't forget they kicked out the PLO which in turn moved to Lebanon. So they did have issues overthere, they just got rid of it!
Jordan is overwelmingly homogenous; not as diverse as Lebanon which is susceptible to sectarian strife!
we can help the Plaestinians just not before our own interests! Why should we prioritize there needs before our own!
you should go on a dutch chat site and convince your countrymen to do the same lol.

And that's why the sooner they go back to where they belong, the better it is for us!

Think of all the developments we can have instead of Sabra and Chatila camps in Beirut! (what? We're on a skyscrapers forum :D)

R9 is saying that they should stay in Lebanon!
btw I agree with you about sending them back to their homeland, But I am not sure how long that will take or if it will ever happen! that's why I am saying they should go somehwre where they will be needed.

JB_NL are you not aware that Lebanon is very different from Jordan. The Palestinians in Jordan make up the bulk of the population there, don't forget they kicked out the PLO which in turn moved to Lebanon. So they did have issues overthere, they just got rid of it!
Jordan is overwelmingly homogenous; not as diverse as Lebanon which is susceptible to sectarian strife!
we can help the Plaestinians just not before our own interests! Why should we prioritize there needs before our own!
you should go on a dutch chat site and convince your countrymen to do the same lol.

our palestinian refugees have dutch pasports ;)

So we should get involved because we share cultural and geographical ties? At our expense? meaning getting bombed, hurting our economy? etc?

See how you always bring it to the same meaningless ideas?
Today, Palestine is under the control of israel, and there's not an organised palestinian state. As for the Arab world, you can't count on them. Today 4 years past after 2006, and our oisn't hurt. If you care so much about the economy, here's my logic:

1-To improve the economy, we'd rather get rid of half a million jobless and poor persons, who are a threat to the country's political stability
2-You can't just put them anywhere, they have to go back to there country
3-There country is under the control of israel, so the one and only one who can give them back a piece of land so they can build a state on it.
4-Giving them more land means the creation of two separate nations.
5-Once we have Palestine created, Palestinians refugees in the different arab countries, including Lebanon, may go back there, and leave us with more space and less tensions.

So the ball is in the israeli court, and the day they decide to stop this bullshit they're doing, and give, I don't know, let's say 40% of the territory to Palestinians, they will stop "firing rockets on israel, and won't be a threat to the poor israelis anymore", Hezbollah won't be to say they want to liberate Palestine anymore and therefore their arms won't be legitimate anymore, Palestinians in the refugees camp won't have any excuse to stay in Lebanon.

The only problem might be Jerusalem, but since it's the city of the 3 Holy Religions, they can make it part of the two States, with equal rights for both israelis and Palestinians, and with boards written in both arabic and hebrew.

The solution is simple, and once israel decide to take a step forward, the entire arab and international community will support them and Palestine. But when today they are training their selves how to fight Palestinian rockets, I am sorry but they aren't making any effort to put an end to this ridiculous war.

And don't say it's easier to put them in Syria/Jordan/KSA, because it's not this that'll stop the Near East Crisis, nor the existence of the Hezeb as a Resistance and not as a political party.

our palestinian refugees have dutch pasports ;)

we already naturalized 100k palestinians how many did you naturalize?

See how you always bring it to the same meaningless ideas?
Today, Palestine is under the control of israel, and there's not an organised palestinian state. As for the Arab world, you can't count on them. Today 4 years past after 2006, and our oisn't hurt. If you care so much about the economy, here's my logic:

1-To improve the economy, we'd rather get rid of half a million jobless and poor persons, who are a threat to the country's political stability
2-You can't just put them anywhere, they have to go back to there country
3-There country is under the control of israel, so the one and only one who can give them back a piece of land so they can build a state on it.
4-Giving them more land means the creation of two separate nations.
5-Once we have Palestine created, Palestinians refugees in the different arab countries, including Lebanon, may go back there, and leave us with more space and less tensions.

So the ball is in the israeli court, and the day they decide to stop this bullshit they're doing, and give, I don't know, let's say 40% of the territory to Palestinians, they will stop "firing rockets on israel, and won't be a threat to the poor israelis anymore", Hezbollah won't be to say they want to liberate Palestine anymore and therefore their arms won't be legitimate anymore, Palestinians in the refugees camp won't have any excuse to stay in Lebanon.

The only problem might be Jerusalem, but since it's the city of the 3 Holy Religions, they can make it part of the two States, with equal rights for both israelis and Palestinians, and with boards written in both arabic and hebrew.

The solution is simple, and once israel decide to take a step forward, the entire arab and international community will support them and Palestine. But when today they are training their selves how to fight Palestinian rockets, I am sorry but they aren't making any effort to put an end to this ridiculous war.

And don't say it's easier to put them in Syria/Jordan/KSA, because it's not this that'll stop the Near East Crisis, nor the existence of the Hezeb as a Resistance and not as a political party.

First of all I was asking questions. NOT coming up with ideas.
Secondly thank you for answering my questions!
Thirdly from what I understand in a nutshel: you think we should fight alongside the palestinians, so that one day they could have a state of their own! Meaning that our incentive to fight with them is that so we can finally get rid of them from our terratory. Did I get this right?

God!
to the dutch guy yalli 3am yetfalsaf ( assuming you know arabic) , Why don't you get that giving them the citizenship will put our existence in danger? It's not Lebanon's fault if they were departed from their own country, so why the solution should be at our expense?

If Hizbollah is good for anything, it would be to prevent their naturalization.

^^(@Melkart)ya3ne... The aim is to get rid of them (I couldn't think of a better way to say it). What I'm trying to say is that this can be done without fighting. I don't want Lebanon to enter a new war, but I want to see these Palestinians refugees getting out from my country, going to their own country where they will become Palestinian citizens. . And only israel can make it happen. There was absolutely no need for war since the beginning.

^^(@Melkart)ya3ne... The aim is to get rid of them (I couldn't think of a better way to say it). What I'm trying to say is that this can be done without fighting. I don't want Lebanon to enter a new war, but I want to see these Palestinians refugees getting out from my country, going to their own country where they will become Palestinian citizens. . And only israel can make it happen. There was absolutely no need for war since the beginning.

It seems that we both agree on preventing their naturalization, we simply disagree on how to achieve that. Now I know where your stance is and I know where mine is. I guess we can put this issue to rest now, since neither of us are going to agree.

God!
to the dutch guy yalli 3am yetfalsaf ( assuming you know arabic) , Why don't you get that giving them the citizenship will put our existence in danger? It's not Lebanon's fault if they were departed from their own country, so why the solution should be at our expense?

If Hizbollah is good for anything, it would be to prevent their naturalization.

eeh, ana bafham hayda :D

3:25pm Labor Minister Boutros Harb rejected two letters from Head of the Higher Lebanese-Syrian Council Nasri Khoury related to two Syrian workers, demanding the letters be sent through official diplomatic channels: The embassies of the two countries.

:)

^^ :applause:


Love Boutros Harb

We can improve their quality of life without giving them citizenship. I think it’s inhuman how they by law cant improve their standard of livin'.

The majority of Palestinians in Lebanon are born in Lebanon. I know personally Palestinians that refer their home country as Lebanon.

About 50 years all of them will call themselves lebanese. Be a realist and realize they are here to stay forever, sad but true.
No country will take them in, because they wont benefit any country.

All this is to blame on the concept of Zionism. That’s why Lebanon is a part of the Palestinian- Israel conflict.

Good post. Thank you.

Unfortunately I think it is now much much much much much more difficult to change the laws to allow Palestinians to make a living for themselves in Lebanon, like Palestinian refugees in other Arab countries such as Syria. The reason being that the number of Palestinian refugees has grown significantly and to completely open up employment for them would be a huge shock for the Lebanese economy.

This should have been done in the 50's, when their numbers were much smaller, and the Lebanese economy was in better shape to handle such an injection. Even back then, it could have been done in a few phases.

^^

Thank you! You’re welcome :)

This is a very difficult issue and as you say the situation is getting worse and the birth-rate will keep increasing. The original refugees are passing away and in time the Palestinians in Lebanon wont know where to go back.

If it wasn’t for the UNRWA the Palestinians would be starving in the streets. We haft to accept that they are here to stay, we can only hope for a solution so they can move back to where they belong.
But just imagining how 400 000 Palestinians are moving back to their destroyed villages in the upper Galilee is just unrealistic .

If Lebanon becomes heavily industrialized the problem would be solved eventually.

Assad to Hariri: No Border Demarcation under Global Pressure

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has reportedly said that Damascus was not willing to consider border demarcation under U.S. and Western pressure or U.N. Security Council resolutions such as 1680.

"In light of external pressures, I am not planning anything in this regard, because demarcation of the border is a Lebanese-Syrian issue," Al-Akhbar newspaper quoted Assad as telling Prime Minister Saad Hariri during his trip to Damascus.

Assad said that only after conviction is reached by both countries that Syria and Lebanon can move toward border demarcation.

Al-Akhbar said Hariri responded by saying that border demarcation can only take place based on "mutual understanding and cooperation."

^^ This is outrageous! Another weak escuse to prolong the process...

Demarcation? On Atlas Mts. or Shebaa Farms? If the latter, how come there are Lebanese pre-war maps showing it as Syrian territories (which is de facto reason/excuse for occupying it by Israel)? At least I saw the mentioned pre-2002 and post-2002 maps (http://nowlebanon.com/NewsArchiveDetails.aspx?ID=1042) here :sly:
If the defence ministry admitted they were Syrian territories before 2002, any attempt to change their status will be inefficient in terms of international law (occupied territories cannot change their status due to that law; if they could, maybe Georgia could "lend" S. Osetia to US for few months to get rid of Russians there ;) ).

yes this outrageous, as a long list of other things

I am sure that the Hizb. people would love to have another Syrian annexation/occupation of Lebanon... :nuts:

^^You better watch out your limits. You are nobody to know what Hezbollah people want or not.

^^You better watch out your limits. You are nobody to know what Hezbollah people want or not.

Not completely true. They want to kill Israeli civilians.

AFAIR Hezbollah ppl did tear Lebanese flags off to replace them by Hezbollah flags. Doesn't sound very patriotic to me (especially if you know how much respect Lebanese ppl show to their national flag) :ohno:

Not completely true. They want to kill Israeli civilians.

Just as much as Jews want to kill Palestinians....

Look, everyone knows I am against hzb. I also understand and recognize Israel's right of existence....I really do, they were displaced and needed a home. Also they are settled now in Israel and have developed it quite well and I cant imagine uprooting them again... HAVING SAID THAT.... Israel has no right to play a victim.

Israel has superior weapons, a better trained military, a developed economy. Jewish settles in the west bank are really something disgusting they are not only on Palestinian territory and behind demarcation lines and deny the rights of Palestinians.

The Holocaust was the greatest gift to the israelis, not only did it give you guys leverage to gain world sympathy and to play the constant scape goat. But really, you learned how to adapt parts of the Nazi regime on the Palestinians. I congratulate the Jewish people, they are very wise.

So stop whining, own up to the fact that you are a world power, and with great power comes great responsibility. and if you dont know what that means, I'll get you a dictionary.

Just as much as Jews want to kill Palestinians....

Prove it.


Israel has superior weapons, a better trained military, a developed economy.

Maybe because we are perhaps the only non-petroleum producing country in the region that hasn't completely f**ked itself up? And concerning our military/weapons, the reason why we have and need a strong military is because the Arab countries and the Palestinians never left us alone in peace. So I blame countries like Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt, and groups like the Palestinians, Hamas and Hizbullah, for forcing Israel to develop a strong military. If we had been left in peace, I am positive that Israel would have never voluntarily militarized itself.

Jewish settles in the west bank are really something disgusting they are not only on Palestinian territory and behind demarcation lines and deny the rights of Palestinians.

That's also not completely accurate. What you see on TV is perhaps the 1-5% most extreme settlers (I am sure you don't have extremists in Lebanon...). In fact, up until the 2nd intafadah, the Palestinians had no road blocks and free entry into Israel and Jerusalem and access to jobs and hospitals and other places/services in Israel. The West Bank was put on lock down because Yassir Arafat thought that it would be a great idea to have teenage Palestinian boys and girls blow themselves up on Israeli buses and in Israeli schools and hospitals. If such a thing happened to you in Lebanon, and you could do something about it, you wouldn't protect yourself?

The Holocaust was the greatest gift to the israelis, not only did it give you guys leverage to gain world sympathy and to play the constant scape goat.

You're such an idiot. You think that I find happiness in the fact that nearly my entire family was killed in the Holocaust (several hundred people on each of my parent's sides)? The Holocaust has made us more aware that we must be able to stand up for ourselves to bigots like you.


But really, you learned how to adapt parts of the Nazi regime on the Palestinians. I congratulate the Jewish people, they are very wise.
At least we aren't as dumb as you. Thank God.

So stop whining, own up to the fact that you are a world power, and with great power comes great responsibility. and if you dont know what that means, I'll get you a dictionary.
Who's whining? And what are you talking about?

Just as much as Jews want to kill Palestinians....

Look, everyone knows I am against hzb. I also understand and recognize Israel's right of existence....I really do, they were displaced and needed a home. Also they are settled now in Israel and have developed it quite well and I cant imagine uprooting them again... HAVING SAID THAT.... Israel has no right to play a victim.

Israel has superior weapons, a better trained military, a developed economy. Jewish settles in the west bank are really something disgusting they are not only on Palestinian territory and behind demarcation lines and deny the rights of Palestinians.

The Holocaust was the greatest gift to the israelis, not only did it give you guys leverage to gain world sympathy and to play the constant scape goat. But really, you learned how to adapt parts of the Nazi regime on the Palestinians. I congratulate the Jewish people, they are very wise.

So stop whining, own up to the fact that you are a world power, and with great power comes great responsibility. and if you dont know what that means, I'll get you a dictionary.


Excellent post!

Before I start, I have to say I am very dissapointed. Most Jews I talk to are very intelligent and very well versed in presenting their points of views without resorting to childish insults.... I guess you are all not the same :P

You didnt give me much to argue against..

Now for the fun....

Prove it.
My comment was made to provoke you, because I cant prove my statement as much as you cant prove yours. The fact that you think all the ppl that follow hzb want to kill jews is so unfounded. Also, why is your memory so selective, Israel invaded lebanon and the south before there was even a hzb. Hzb exists because Israel invaded lebanon.


Maybe because we are perhaps the only non-petroleum producing country in the region that hasn't completely f**ked itself up? And concerning our military/weapons, the reason why we have and need a strong military is because the Arab countries and the Palestinians never left us alone in peace. So I blame countries like Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Egypt, and groups like the Palestinians, Hamas and Hizbullah, for forcing Israel to develop a strong military. If we had been left in peace, I am positive that Israel would have never voluntarily militarized itself.

Breathe, Read.... UNDERSTAND... then respond. I didnt ask you why you have a strong military.. I stated the fact that you do... acknowledge it and act accordingly.

Forcing israel to militarize itself? You really think a nation wouldnt want to develop strong arms... any nation, any nation would want a strong army. THATS COMMON SENSE!! Especially a nation of European Jewry that just survived almost complete Annihilation.

Furthermore... lets get something straight... Israel is a legitimate state. I respect it and respect its legitimacy NOW. But You take us back to 1948, you really think a bunch of white European Jews declaring a state on the eve of British withdrawl on Arab land. After 20 years of conflict between arabs and Jews, Conflicts throughout the arab world against colonialism at that time... and you expect the arabs to welcome you.


Understand this isnt a problem with Jews... but more with europeans coming to arab land and declaring a state... Think of it as the spanish going into south america and colonizing it.


That's also not completely accurate. What you see on TV is perhaps the 1-5% most extreme settlers (I am sure you don't have extremists in Lebanon...). In fact, up until the 2nd intafadah, the Palestinians had no road blocks and free entry into Israel and Jerusalem and access to jobs and hospitals and other places/services in Israel. The West Bank was put on lock down because Yassir Arafat thought that it would be a great idea to have teenage Palestinian boys and girls blow themselves up on Israeli buses and in Israeli schools and hospitals. If such a thing happened to you in Lebanon, and you could do something about it, you wouldn't protect yourself?

AGAIN....
Breathe, Read.... UNDERSTAND... then respond. understand I dont say any of my comments with anger, it may sound so because that is usually how these topics are handled but we are talking about matters of fact.

I am not talking about roadblocks... I am talking about Israel going into the west bank and building there and then settling settlers. I live in Canada I go to a university that has a significant amount of Jews and honest to god I see advertisement for settlement in israel specifically the west bank. I have watched on tv late night advertisement from christian groups and Jewish groups lobbying for Jews to immigrate to israel for monetary benefits. Which I find funny because its like the christian groups want Jews to move away from America, If I was a jew I would be kind of offended :P. And then you see videos of white american jews in the west bank saying this is there land. What claim to authenticity do they have?

Settle in Israel... leave the west bank.. that was my point... notice. NOTHING ABOUT ROADBLOCKS .



You're such an idiot. You think that I find happiness in the fact that nearly my entire family was killed in the Holocaust (several hundred people on each of my parent's sides)? The Holocaust has made us more aware that we must be able to stand up for ourselves to bigots like you.

Dont call me an Idiot... be respectful...... PLEASE.

Who said you were happy, I just said Israelis learned from the Nazi's methodology of Ghettoizing populations. Understand I completely empathize what has happened to Jews, its disgusting what the Nazi's did. I dont understand how you can Jews can go through that and then treat other populations the same way.

There is something called Holocaust guilt, academically its a symptom that the west experienced because they didnt know what was happening in Germany in time, so we are very cautious about anything anti Jewish. So the world is very understanding and aware of the holocaust.

Unfortunatly I am not the bigot because I never wish death on Jews or Israeli's and as you can see, I understand the perspectives of both sides. and you can only see yourself as a victim.


At least we aren't as dumb as you. Thank God.

This is not an argument, however, if you Re read your comments, you've disproved this already!


Who's whining? And what are you talking about?

The way Israeli's keep talking about themselves you would think they are living in a third world country, or that you are actually threatened by something.

Israel clearly doesn't recognize how powerful it is. Is Israel suffering from low self esteem? well I guess If you consider Israeli's history stemming from the holocaust, as child abuse maybe so lol

I guess I am also entitled for an insensitive inappropriate joke like you made in your introduction.


Welcome to the FORUM.

^^

Yes, very good post!



You're such an idiot. You think that I find happiness in the fact that nearly my entire family was killed in the Holocaust (several hundred people on each of my parent's sides)? The Holocaust has made us more aware that we must be able to stand up for ourselves to bigots like you.




ooh, there he played the Anti-Semitic card.

^^

Yes, very good post!




ooh, there he played the Anti-Semitic card.

Hey I am a semite too... I am not self haiting....

Also.. european jews are so mixed, hardly pure semites... I think i am more semetic than them.

@R9_: So you want hundreds ppl from you family got murdered as well to have opportunity to play "anti-Arab"/anti-whatever card?
Are you aware how ridiculous your post is?

^^I think he meant that the anti-semite card is used even in the most ridiculous of situations, if you ciriticize israel, you're automatically anit-semite...which is ridiculous.