Let us build a country first! we can solve the other stuff later. how long do we have to endure conflicts and wars. There is always an excuse.

lol,and israel is going to resolve that later,right?:lol:
BTW,i am one of the hardcore anti-hizbullah guys,but i am also anti-zionism.
so before they give us our land and take palestinian refugees back or find a solution for them,i don't really support a peace treaty with them.

Those words are highly offensive on so many levels ... I didn't even bother to read the rest of your drama.



Why is that.....
Sorry though :)
And u should read it........

I am not trying to change your point of view. You support Hezbollah, it is your choice and I respect it.

But to come and tell that we have no right to "Judge" what is right and what is wrong unless we have been screwed by Israel is unacceptable.

If we reach a point where we all share this mentality,with all respect to Tanzanians, I wouldn't be surprized if Tanzania tried to occupy us, .

Listen I'll go straight to the point, and know I'm getting an infraction for this, but you piss me off, an honestly, get the hell out of here. You've made your point clear, everyone did, there's nothing else yo add, so don't.

Yes, you did get an infraction for this. Come on, you know better than that... please try to keep these feelings to yourself.

I am not trying to change your point of view. You support Hezbollah, it is your choice and I respect it.

But to come and tell that we have no right to "Judge" what is right and what is wrong unless we have been screwed by Israel is unacceptable.

If we reach a point where we all share this mentality,with all respect to Tanzanians, I wouldn't be surprized if Tanzania tried to occupy us, .

Thank you. This country belongs to all of us and anything that happens in one region affects and impacts the entire country. Therefore, we all have a right to an opinion.

^^

tell that to the man who just lost his house, wife and kids, if he wants peace with Israel?

What this man answers is what matters. I don’t give a damn how Lebanon can benefit with Israel, I put my respect to the victims and what they want.

You just don’t make peace with someone that rape you countless of times.

Peace with israel isnt possible, maybe about 50-80 years. All depends on Israels change of policies..

I think we are disagreeing about what "peace" means. I am saying that such a man can continue to hate Israel and feel as he does. "Peace" doesn't mean that he has to start loving Israel. Peace simply means that Lebanon and Israel put into place, conditions that will prevent the occurrence of future wars so that this man, his neighbors and eventually his children, will no longer have to worry about losing their loved ones or their homes. Is having such peace-of-mind really thaaaat bad?

Dud i am not disagreeing with you.....

I am saying that peace can be achieved when the following happens:

- Israel becomes a peace-loving nation, not a terrorism-loving nation.

- Israel stops breaking UN resolutions, and respects Lebanses soevreginty.

- Israel stops provoking a new war with the Lebanese State.

- And most importantly, Israel is held accountable for the acts of terrorism it has committed.

We both want peace, but to achieve peace the question lies on the Israelis regime, if they can grasp the concept of peace. I am glad though we share the mutual goal of Peace. (:

Popsi in now way, did i say you do not have any right to say anything. Belaaks i am all for the unity and harmony of ALL Lebanese. I recognize what Lebanon has been though with Israel, and Syria. But i was just saying that you should not judge peace in Southern Lebanon, when you have not been through what the Southern Lebanese have been though, or even worse when you do not recognize Lebanese resistance to be justified. This is the crucial core of the discussion!! (:

Like i have said before none of you guys can make judgments about what happened in Southern Lebanon, because none of you guys lost anything there. You chitchat ignorantly like peace depends on Lebanon. Israel in it's right mind DOES NOT WANT PEACE, AND DOES NOT SEEK PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is a counrtry with treachery, and terrorism and it's core. Statistically it has commited the worst crimes against humanity, and broken the worst UN resoulutions. I have had this conversion before with chevre and made him scurry. I will repeat my points, so your brains can absorb it.

Firstly for all of you guys who believe in their right minds that we should disarm.. 1/3 of your country would be in this state..(you guys dont care)
Southern Lebanon as of now; 2010 would still be ruins. Our women would still be raped, our men still decapitated, our families still in absolute treachery. Our goods would still be stolen, as well as our homes, farms, food and water still stolen and occupied. Our people would still be isolated from the rest of the country. The people of Southern Lebanon would still be in disbelief, shock, anxiety, depression, and complete financial wreck. Our people would still have their identity stolen from them and We would not have the right to pursuit happiness, our lives would still be ruined. You say our resistance is not justified. You have the level of ignorance to speak the words that our resistance is not justified.

Okay lets spin to modern times........

You double-standards believe that because Hezbollah kidnapped two men in 2006, it was there fault for the war. Well if Hezbollah would seek war, like Israel, and start war like Israel, a war would of started today, tomorrow, yesterday, last week. Every day we have the right to start a war. Harriri said this in the BBC interview. He said we should stand united against the threat of Israel, united with Hezbollah. You guys are dividing the country.
Lets put all of Israel's violations that Hezbollah could of responded to with war, just like Israel....
- Israeli warplanes EVERY DAY violate Lebanese airspace, for 3-7 hours.
- Israeli seaplanes nearly daily violate Lebanese sea space and harass fishers.
- Israeli seaplanes fired artillery into Tyre, numerous times.
- Israel steals Lebanese water, and a HUGE rate.
- Israel has set up hundreds of spying systems in Lebanon, and injected the LAF with many spies.
- Many cross-border raids that led to the kidnapping and beating of Lebanese civilians.

---Many more, please shut up, about the "Hezbollah brought war on to Lebanon in 2006" You dont have a argument.

Let me put this into modern terms for some of you guys who cannot grasp the obvious.

If Mexico were to invade and ocupy Texas, rape their women decapitate their men in front of their children, put families in absoulute treachery, apply terror among texans to the upmost degree, the American Army is extremely weak, and Americans not livign in Texas do not give a crap about what is happening; does this not give a justified reason for resistance?? HUHHHHH?????? Now in the future after Mexico every day steals Texas water, land, violets Texas's air, sea space every day, insults, and tantalizes Texans each day, holds thousands of Texan prisoners!!

Okay about peace it is pretty straight-forward...
Israel will always, every day commit these crimes. They are a criminal army. THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. They need to seek peace with Palestinians. They need to seek peace with Lebanese. They need to be a peace-loving nation. Not a terrorism-loving nation. Peace is everything Southern Lebanese, and Palestains want, we want to stop being tortured and crushed by Israel. Hezbollah in Lebanon has given us that assurance. We will disarm when when the International Community, acts, and holds Israel accountable for the crimes they have committed. And halt these actions in the future, and FORCES ISRAEL to make peace. When Israel halts its acts of terrorism in Palestine and Lebanon we will be happy to disarm. BUT, after everything Israel has done, Hezbollah will not disarm until the following happens . It is pretty simple, and does not need these 3usa3s wu ha3ka3ye........

I think you have just turned every peace-loving, arab-hugging, pacifist, leftist Israeli into Meir Kahane. You should contact the Jewish Defense League, they might put you on their payroll.

Lebanon backs Hezbollah against Israel
By ZEINA KARAM (AP) – 1 day ago

BEIRUT — Lebanon's prime minister voiced concern Wednesday about "escalating" Israeli war threats, and said his government will support the Shiite Muslim group Hezbollah if a new war breaks out with the Jewish state.
Saad Hariri's comments come amid heightened tensions in the Middle East following some of the sharpest exchanges in years between Israel and its Arab neighbors.

It also comes in the context of improved relations between Hariri's Western-backed coalition and the Iranian-backed Hezbollah since the two sides were forced to coexist in a fragile national unity government formed in November.

The cabinet includes two ministers from the militant group Hezbollah, which fought Israel to a standstill in a monthlong war in 2006 and clashed with supporters of Hariri in 2008.

"We hear a lot of Israeli threats day in and day out," Hariri said in an interview posted on the BBC's Web site Wednesday. "Every day we have Israeli warplanes entering Lebanese airspace. This is something that is escalating, and this is something that is really dangerous."

Hariri said Lebanon, which has a notoriously fractious political system, would unite if there is a fresh conflict with Israel.

"I think they're (Israelis) betting that there might be some division in Lebanon, if there is a war against us," Hariri said. "There won't be a division in Lebanon. We will stand against Israel. We will stand with our own people."

Israel's foreign minister brushed aside the Lebanese leader's warning.

"As prime minister, he's simply a hostage of Hezbollah, which has veto power in his Cabinet," Avigdor Lieberman told Israel's Army Radio.

Hariri's coalition narrowly defeated a Hezbollah-led coalition in parliamentary elections last year, enabling it to retain a slim majority in the 128-member legislature.

Hariri, however, was unable to form a government without Hezbollah and its allies, fearing a repeat of sectarian violence seen in 2008, when Hezbollah militants swept through Sunni neighborhoods of Beirut after the government moved to curb the group's military communications network.

Hariri said Hezbollah would be included in the government whether Israel likes it or not. Like previous governments, Hariri's government endorsed Hezbollah's right to keep its weapons and has been loath to take any strong action against the group for fear of sparking a crisis. (when did they "endorse" this? they just refuse to speak of it)

Asked whether there might be a new war involving Lebanon and Syria, Lieberman said: "I very much hope not."

"We have no interest in heating up the fronts with any of our neighbors. At the same time, we won't be a punching bag. And we won't shrug off vitriol that's directed at Israel," he said.

Lebanon's president warned Israel Tuesday that a war against Lebanon will be "no picnic."

Last week, Syria's foreign minister accused Israel of "spreading an atmosphere of war" in the region after Israel's Defense Minister Ehud Barak warned that the stalled peace process with Syria could result in an all-out regional war.

Walid al-Moallem warned Israelis that "a war at this time will be transferred to your cities."

Lieberman said the Syrians "crossed a red line" and warned Syria its army would be defeated and its regime would collapse in a future conflict.

^^I hope there is no war...

The country has just started getting back on its feet...

^^I hope there is no war...

The country has just started getting back on its feet...

EXACTLY. Tourism, commerce, infrastructure, will be severely damaged. Would be a disaster.

@alisaleh's post,

I mean I guess Lebanon doesn't have many options but to support Hizbullah in a war against Israel.

I think that all this talk about war, from both sides, is completely irresponsible. It only takes one misunderstanding or one blown temper, for another war to start. We spend too much time focusing on threats and wars and not enough energy and thought into trying to prevent future wars. Are we, Lebanese and Israelis, doomed to keep on suffering in perpetuity because of this?

ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH wars seriously ENOUGH....People are fed up, khalasna ba2a...

I really dont think Hizballah would risk the flattening of Dahiyeh AGAIN, especially after they spent so much on re-building. They also wont risk suffering extensive casualties, etc. and taint their current "Divine Victory" slogan.

As for Israel, I am certain they wont have the puplic opinion to support another war, as no one there wants to return to bomb shelters!

All this talk is pure non-sense meant for Israel to look tough in the face of Iran, Hizballah to justify its existance, and Hariri to preserve internal unity.

http://i48.tinypic.com/x542ys.jpg

ya3ne darrooreh enta kamen?

Because when march 8th was camping out in martyrs square it wasnt because of money, right? ma ento bta3rfo ya 3bedeen el dollar.

Ya 7aram.

woow la weeeeeiiiiiiiinn ta7esh? rou2 ma3leh? Ana ma mcherek bi wala mouzahara, fa dollar men 8 aw men 14, ma ba3ref iza fi. I came on it w l2ita ma echba chi fa elt b7otta hon 3a 2asses 'humor'.
W ba3den heydeh el "ento" wel "na7na" chou?

i dont see anything humurous about it !!!

I do. Fi meshkleh?

yeah you are a meshkleh kbeereh

lol,and MArch 8th who came with al mal al nazeef ' clean money ' idea afterall :lol:

woow la weeeeeiiiiiiiinn ta7esh? rou2 ma3leh? Ana ma mcherek bi wala mouzahara, fa dollar men 8 aw men 14, ma ba3ref iza fi. I came on it w l2ita ma echba chi fa elt b7otta hon 3a 2asses 'humor'.
W ba3den heydeh el "ento" wel "na7na" chou?

Leb. Fr, enno ya3ne be kil barra2a ma me3ne feha she hal 3meltelha post? tab min marre2a, 3al 7alten, anna I over reacted, fa sorry.

W el ento w ne7na... bil nesbeh la 2elleh... ma fe ne7na, l2ano anna ma ma3 7addan, la ma3 fleneh walla fouleneh, w foukhar y kasser ba3do, bil nehayeh kello ma byeswa she.

Bas akeed fe faree2en, el 8 wel 14, w ma3roof enta ma3 meen, hayda yalleh me3neh bel "ento"

3al 7alten msema7, w nchallah btkoon enta seme7tneh, la2ano metl ma 2elet, kello ma bye7rez.

Bas de3ano el balad.

L2ano b nazareh, e7tefel 14, manno e7tefel, bas zekra jnezet balad, ya de3ano. 3anjad, requiem for a dream. bein 14 w 8, da3 el 7elem wel balad ma3o.

@alisaleh's post,

I mean I guess Lebanon doesn't have many options but to support Hizbullah in a war against Israel.

I think that all this talk about war, from both sides, is completely irresponsible. It only takes one misunderstanding or one blown temper, for another war to start. We spend too much time focusing on threats and wars and not enough energy and thought into trying to prevent future wars. Are we, Lebanese and Israelis, doomed to keep on suffering in perpetuity because of this?


Well, not really, in the 2006 war not everyone supported Hezbollah. Infact, amid war, different factions criticised Hezbollah (e.g Ja'Ja', Samy, etc).

I really dont think Hizballah would risk the flattening of Dahiyeh AGAIN, especially after they spent so much on re-building. They also wont risk suffering extensive casualties, etc. and taint their current "Divine Victory" slogan.

As for Israel, I am certain they wont have the puplic opinion to support another war, as no one there wants to return to bomb shelters!

All this talk is pure non-sense meant for Israel to look tough in the face of Iran, Hizballah to justify its existance, and Hariri to preserve internal unity.


The only positive comment you had was of Hariri :lol: You could have bothered to mention that he is doing exactly what he promised not to do. During the elections, it was all, Hezbollah this, Hezbollah that, if Hezbollah wins...and now these different factions are offering to polish Hezbollah's shoes and please it, if not atleast work with them...enough said.

howe hala2 momkoun ma ykoon fadeelak, 3afwan, bi3tizir 7abib , mashgool 3am yi3bod il dollar....

inoo 3anjad?




Leb. Fr, enno ya3ne be kil barra2a ma me3ne feha she hal 3meltelha post? tab min marre2a, 3al 7alten, anna I over reacted, fa sorry.

W el ento w ne7na... bil nesbeh la 2elleh... ma fe ne7na, l2ano anna ma ma3 7addan, la ma3 fleneh walla fouleneh, w foukhar y kasser ba3do, bil nehayeh kello ma byeswa she.

Bas akeed fe faree2en, el 8 wel 14, w ma3roof enta ma3 meen, hayda yalleh me3neh bel "ento"

3al 7alten msema7, w nchallah btkoon enta seme7tneh, la2ano metl ma 2elet, kello ma bye7rez.

Bas de3ano el balad.

L2ano b nazareh, e7tefel 14, manno e7tefel, bas zekra jnezet balad, ya de3ano. 3anjad, requiem for a dream. bein 14 w 8, da3 el 7elem wel balad ma3o.

rou2o kelkon, saad el harriri and hassan nasrallah are best friends now, our prime minister vowed to stand with HA in any future confrontation so what exactly are you fighting about.
Everything anyone hoped for in 2005 is gone with the wind, wel zefet on the beirut damascus road is starting to wear off again from all the lebanese politicians crawling back to see bashar el ****.
i am more convinced now that lebanon will never become a country until all the politicians are put in a grabage bag and thrown in the sea with no exception.
the so-called leaders are back loving each other and no one remembers those who died from 2005 to 2009 b/c of the stupid actions of those same leaders.
How many people other than rafic el harriri died in that period and for what?!?!.... wlak TFEH!

The only positive comment you had was of Hariri :lol: You could have bothered to mention that he is doing exactly what he promised not to do. During the elections, it was all, Hezbollah this, Hezbollah that, if Hezbollah wins...and now these different factions are offering to polish Hezbollah's shoes and please it, if not atleast work with them...enough said.

They dont really have a choice though, Hez really does yield tremendous influence now and have proven that if they dont get what they want they will use force.
I respect Hez for its organizational abilities, I just wish that this is how they could add value to Leb rather than via its vehemently anti israel response that only seems to stir more tension.

In fact it is a ma3sa3 politics in Lebanon. There is no more, march 8, or march 14......................

y'all should be happy though, i would rather have unity, then division...............

howe hala2 momkoun ma ykoon fadeelak, 3afwan, bi3tizir 7abib , mashgool 3am yi3bod il dollar....

inoo 3anjad?

enno ma3 kil e7terameteh ellak, sho khassak? she bayne w bayno, w 2anna ma 3ayez 7addan ye7ke 3anne, w howe ma 3ayez 7adan ye7ke 3anno. 2eza betreed khaleek be 7allak w yalle bye3neek.

NNA: LAF fires anti-aircraft artillery at Israeli warplanes flying at mid-altitudes over the South and Bekaa

18:43 MTV: Four dead in Ain al-Hilweh clashes; snipers positioned along Saida highway

^^^^Not to sound offensive to Palestinians, but what the hell are those militias thinking.

First off, the camps are in crap condition and are lawless. The people living in them barely have an identity except for their Palestinian ID cards and are barred from so much in Lebanon.

Yet still, these radical groups form and not only do they form, bes kol wa7od dud el tani. Why would you shoot against other factions in your camp! Knowing very well you cannot leave the camp in the long run... honestly its just stupid. Seeing as we barely treat them well, at least treat each other well.

Also, just out of curiosity. Why do these militias even form? None of them actually contribute to fighting Israel do they?

NNA: LAF fires anti-aircraft artillery at Israeli warplanes flying at mid-altitudes over the South and Bekaa

^^I really feel bad for our army, trying with everythinh they got, trying to shoot down those F-16 aircrafts with no results. Well they said in the report that they "forced" the jets to increase altitude, while I say the result is a huge waste of needed artillary shells...

Ramy H you are absolutely correct.

The militias form as forces to eventually (allegedly) free Palestine from the Israeli's.

But in my opininon they are to increase the seclusion of Palestinian Camps from Lebanses Governmenment security forces. It is a freakin' chaos in every camp, I mean illegal electricity theft, water, & construction, with no attention what so ever to Urban Planning. All the preceeding are depriving the Lebanese public from their rights of a 24 hour electricity and water service. They are not paying bills thus increasing our national debt and depriving Lebanon finances needed to address several problems in Lebanon, from environment to many others....

dont get me wrong, Im not blaming this on te Palestinian refugees, Im blaming this on the initial mis-management of this impending issue since the 1950's.

^^

There were many factors that led to the "force" which Hezbollah displayed in May.
One of those factors would have actually destroy one of Hezbollah's biggest advantages over its enemy, and thus made Hezbollah a weaker force. And there were other things which pressured Hezbollah to do what it did, let's not just judge an event/action, without judging the circumstance first.

^^

There were many factors that led to the "force" which Hezbollah displayed in May.
One of those factors would have actually destroy one of Hezbollah's biggest advantages over its enemy, and thus made Hezbollah a weaker force. And there were other things which pressured Hezbollah to do what it did, let's not just judge an event/action, without judging the circumstance first.

That being said, it is quite clear who is the strongest element of Lebanese politics. It makes it quite difficult for the opposition to have a voice (even when they won last years elections), especially when their is concern that disagreeing with Hez will likely result in either a standstill or confrontation.

Its just tiring to worry about another war, and Hez seems only to want to keep Leb in this tiresome state.
I honestly dont care about our neighbor to the south, I just want to live in peace already.

^^ Israel is the reason there is a conflict. By saying what you said you just wiped out 60 years of history..........

^^ Why are you always focused on the past instead of the future?

"He who forgets his past is doomed to repeat it"..."Even if you forget your past, your past will not forget you"...etc, etc, etc...

trying to find answers to what happens today, without having a look at what's been going on for decades is absurd...what makes you so sure that 2010 is the year of peace, that the decade starting this year will witness peace in the middle east? we'll grow old and die and the conflict will go on. All we can do is protect ourselves and our people, at any cost. Israel doesn't need peace cause peace means giving the Pals their rights back, and that is a price the israelis will never pay...u know well beiruti...

^^ I am not saying to forget the past or not learn from it. But it's time to be a little more forgiving and optimistic dont you think? To say we wont see peace in our lifetime isnt exactly a positive outlook on life...

^^ Hizbullah will vanish if there;s peace,and well,simply they don't want this to happen,corrupt leaders getting money from Iranian regime at the expense of Iranian people,and the people who die are the Lebanese people in the south,and that what Israel wants exactly,an always-in-state-of-war Lebanon,To me and in my opinion,Israel,Iran and Syria benefiting from this situation and the Lebanese people are the only ones suffering,Sadly,and HISTORY,proves me right.can't you see,the "War of words" game played by leaders in Israel,Syria and Iran ?? am i super smart or something,isn't really obvious? these chickens will never fight each others,they want to do it on Lebanon's land by Lebanese people.
am i the only one who sees this picture out there?

... Belaaks, Hezbollah is one of the only frontiers left in this world, that is fighting the wide-spread corruption in this ****** up world. America is the king of corruption, and Israel is it's Queen. There are obvious, straight-forward facts, that confirm this fact. Feel free to ask for some. In fact, i am disappointing that you hold this twisted-ideology, and i ask you to think about what you have composed, and see that your sentences hold only twisted, and extremely ignorant opinions, and no facts, or sese what so ever. We Lebanese are not the only to suffer from Israel, Palestine has greatly suffered as well, but that is beside the point. Becuase Lebanon has suffered so much, there is Hezbollah. And if there was no Hezbollah, Lebanon would still be suffering, to extreme levels. That brings me to Beiruti point, about the future. I am a future-enthusiast, just like many on this forum, as it is a Development forum. To address your ideology you must first understand, that in all situatiions especilaly this one the past directly affects the future. If Israel, would have sticked to it's game plan in 1982, and not of committed acts of terrorism, we would not have this conversion. In 2000 Israel was dismissed from Lebanese Land. Okay, the disarmament of Hezbollah could come easily if the following happens:

- Israel becomes a peace-loving nation, not a terrorism-loving nation.

- Israel stops breaking UN resolutions, and respects Lebanese sovereignty.

- Israel stops provoking a new war with the Lebanese State.

- And most importantly, Israel is held accountable for the acts of terrorism it has committed. And is prevented from committing future acts of terrorism.

When this happens i will be the first person to demand disarmament. In this future you can not dismiss Israel, or Israeli acts, because they are providing a cloud of haze above peace, they don't want peace, and they will never succumb to peace.

I thought Space was the Last frontier! :nuts:

tsamma3to 3a Hassoun? ken bi 3a22ed!!!!!!! =)

Jader, why do you keep repeating the same thing over and over again...

tsamma3to 3a Hassoun? ken bi 3a22ed!!!!!!! =)


So now war-mongering is cool? He sounds like Dick Cheney.

^^ i didn't catch his speech !!! What did he say ??

^^ Same old war threats..you can tell they have their backs against the wall trying hard to justify their existance.

You strike Dahieh, we strike tel aviv
You strike Rafic Hariri Airport, we strike your tel aviv airport
you strike our electricity factories, we strike yours
you strike our ports, we strike yours
etc

In the last couple of years, we had many opportunities to strike small (ahdef), but until now, lam na25oth al tha2er men katlikom li 3imad moghniyyeh, and we decide of the time, the place, and the target.

We don't want war, but

etc

^^ Can you explain the need for vengeance? Isnt that kind of primitive and barbaric?

Israel wants war, see their history, their whole state is built upon war and ethnical cleansing, you're a fool if you don't see the danger they are for the whole levantine region, not just for palestine or jawlan. There are some idiots that want something called "great-israel".

^^I really feel bad for our army, trying with everythinh they got, trying to shoot down those F-16 aircrafts with no results. Well they said in the report that they "forced" the jets to increase altitude, while I say the result is a huge waste of needed artillary shells...

This again shows that the LAF needs fast reinforcements by airplanes and modern anti-aircraft weapons. And that the LAF is too weak to do anything.

Btw, people, this was an article in dutch in the NRC, inspired on journalist (former Middle-East journalist) Joris Luyendijk book about media about the middle-east.

He shows the core of the palestine conflict by drawing the conflict into the netherlands!

Use google translate. from yesterday !

Het conflict verplaatst: Frisia-Nederland
Gepubliceerd: 16 februari 2010 11:54 | Gewijzigd: 16 februari 2010 11:58
Student grafisch ontwerpen Ruiter Janssen werd geïnspireerd door een fragment uit het boek van Joris Luyenduik, Het zijn net mensen. Daarin verplaatst Luyendijk het Midden-Oostenconflict naar Nederland. „Stel,” schrijft Luyendijk, ,,Stel, in de Verenigde Staten wordt een gek de baas die alle mensen met een Friese grootouder laat oppakken en afmaken. Het wordt een moordpartij van ongekende omvang, en als het anti-Friese bewind eindelijk ten val komt, is duidelijk dat de Friese overlevenden niet meer in Amerika willen wonen.

Dus komt er een plan: de Friezen krijgen een eigen staat, en wat is een logischer plek dan het land dat volgens oude teksten Fries is? Ondanks Nederlands verzet stemmen de Verenigde Naties met het plan in en uit de hele wereld trekken mensen met een Friese grootouder richting de nieuwe Friese staat, royaal gesubsidieerd door Amerika (...).”

En Luyendijk ontrolt het Israël-Palestina conflict verder langs de lijnen van de Friezen tegen de Nederlanders; er komt oorlog, de jonge staat Frisia verovert Nederland, aanslagen, guerilla. Uiteindelijk komt er een vredesproces en krijgen de Nederlanders Limburg, een stukje van Brabant en Zeeuws eiland, bewaakt door Friese troepen.

Janssen heeft, als afstudeerproject voor Willem de Kooning Academie in Rotterdam, die vergelijking van Luyendijk grafisch uitgewerkt, aangevuld met grafieken gebaseerd op historische feiten. Het Midden-Oostenconflict verplaatst naar Nederland, op dezelfde geografische schaal.

http://www.nrc.nl/multimedia/archive/00272/FRISIA_infographic__272418a.jpg
Zoals Luyendijk in zijn boek betoogt, stelt ook Janssen dat de toestand in het Midden-Oosten niet objectief te benaderen. Dit is de Palestijnse kijk op het conflict, benadrukt Janssen. Israël en Nederland hebben een vergelijkbare oppervlakte.

Ook al zijn er bezwaren tegen de vergelijking aan te voeren: Ruiter Janssens project biedt een interessante, andere kijk op een enorm geopolitiek conflict.

Redactie Achterpagina

De rubriek van Anil Ramdas verschijnt morgen

click on this one for a big immage.

http://www.nrc.nl/redactie/foto/frisia.html

Called the "Frisia-Netherlands conflict".

^^ Can you explain the need for vengeance? Isnt that kind of primitive and barbaric?

lol we are talking about a resistance group and not some Mère Teresa foundation...

How can anyone undersatnds what Hassan Nassrallah sais with that speech impediment of His?

You strike Dahieh, we strike tel aviv
You strike Rafic Hariri Airport, we strike your tel aviv airport
you strike our electricity factories, we strike yours
you strike our ports, we strike yours
etc

In the last couple of years, we had many opportunities to strike small (ahdef), but until now, lam na25oth al tha2er men katlikom li 3imad moghniyyeh, and we decide of the time, the place, and the target.

We don't want war, but

etc

LMAO what are they gonna strike them with? Iranian made missiles? Israel willl wipe out Hisballah if they had too! Let's just hope Hisballah isn't stupid enough to initiate another conflict this time!

You are kidding me? Are you insinuating Hezb's missiles aren't powerful enough?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
You deserve THE POST OF THE MONTH award :lol:

I am saying one strike and hisballah is gone! :)

Wasn't the 2006 war supposed to end in 2 days but israel got surprised by the power and resistance of Hezbollah?

Hezbollah is lame.

As rude as this may sound, I am being completely honest but why would anyone CONTINUE to support the group?
Noone is saying they weren't supported, but nowadays why do we need them - integrate into the army and just stop ostracizing yourselves from lebanese society anymore.

For one, it couldn't be any more of a worse feeling when you feel unwelcomed in some cities in Lebanon, but honestly it is a common thing to feel when entering Hezbollah strongholds or supporter cities. And noone can say that is not true, because this summer SIX times I was stopped by men in a jeep who asked me where I was going.

1) What the hell does it matter to them?
2) I don't feel that I look like a spy, so why are they being so sketch?
3) I actually made a wrong turn, however I usually would go out and ask someone for directions but... not many people looked welcoming. Maybe thats me judging them, but in most other Lebanese cities (I will stress the word Lebanese as Hezbollah seems to want to astray itself and its supporters to a new culture, social practices then what the rest of us are accustomed to) you get out of your car, or you find people walking to your car asking if you are lost once you parked on the side of the road.

But lets be honest, how many of us feel 100% comfortable in their areas? Pushing their political and military agenda aside - why must they make us feel like strangers in our own country?

**And just so you do not think I am labelling anyone from those areas as hezbollah supporters, each one of those men that have stopped me have hezbollah flags hanging from their mirrors. Some even told me I am not welcome here.. the @&^@&.

EDIT:
Some hezb supporters in the Beqaa while I was there buying tile for our house were extremely nice. I am not labelling them all as mean:). Anyways, whatever group you support shouldnt change you as a human, but I find with hezbollah supporters it usually does - in terms of attitude to certain things.
Also, most Lebanese can say we aren't the biggest fans of Syrians correct? Well then why in every damn hezbollah city there is nasrallahs face on a ceramic, or a painting INSIDE every store, dakan, company...its like he is the Bashar al Assad of leb lol

Hez may have upgraded their weapons, and I am sure some would land in populated areas (but they still would not be very accurate). Israel, however, has an incredible air force (and no I am not in awe of them but lets face the truth), satellite images of all of our infrastructure targets, extremely modern up to date missiles...I mean, if they wanted to they could practically cripple Lebanon without one ground soldier. Granted if they do invade by ground, Hez will surely have an advantage and many Israeli sodiers would perish. But in both scenarios the final result will be devastating to Lebanon and we all know it. Israel would face some damage but it would not be close to as bad as it would be here.
Surely the Hez supporters here realize that? Or are you still under some kind of illusion that God will win the war for you?
Isn't it sad that some would sacrifice Lebanon just for the chance of killing an Israeli?

^^
Dont worry Hezballah will never attack Israel if not provoked. Itis easy to understand why..
2006 was something new, no one expected a full-scale war.

As rude as this may sound, I am being completely honest but why would anyone CONTINUE to support the group?
Noone is saying they weren't supported, but nowadays why do we need them - integrate into the army and just stop ostracizing yourselves from lebanese society anymore.

For one, it couldn't be any more of a worse feeling when you feel unwelcomed in some cities in Lebanon, but honestly it is a common thing to feel when entering Hezbollah strongholds or supporter cities. And noone can say that is not true, because this summer SIX times I was stopped by men in a jeep who asked me where I was going.

1) What the hell does it matter to them?
2) I don't feel that I look like a spy, so why are they being so sketch?
3) I actually made a wrong turn, however I usually would go out and ask someone for directions but... not many people looked welcoming. Maybe thats me judging them, but in most other Lebanese cities (I will stress the word Lebanese as Hezbollah seems to want to astray itself and its supporters to a new culture, social practices then what the rest of us are accustomed to) you get out of your car, or you find people walking to your car asking if you are lost once you parked on the side of the road.

But lets be honest, how many of us feel 100% comfortable in their areas? Pushing their political and military agenda aside - why must they make us feel like strangers in our own country?

**And just so you do not think I am labelling anyone from those areas as hezbollah supporters, each one of those men that have stopped me have hezbollah flags hanging from their mirrors. Some even told me I am not welcome here.. the @&^@&.



I feel 100 % comfortable and safe when i am in dahiyeh and in southern Lebanon.

Never been stopped or harassed by any hezb guys.

or maybe...
Once when I stopped my car on a desert road in southern Lebanon, a hezb guy riding his motorcycle drove past me very slowly and looked in to my car to see what I was doing. 2 minutes later he came back and followed the same procedure.

If Israel and Hisb went to war again, I can guarantee you that the BCD will be a target! As far as I am concerned no one has the right to start a war except for the State! having a second military force independent of the state is not only dangerous, but they are in essence taking the Lebanese people hostage! and I think it is ironic that some of our members get really excited when they hear war rhetoric, especially since this is a forum dedicated to building and development.

Wasn't the 2006 war supposed to end in 2 days but israel got surprised by the power and resistance of Hezbollah?

That's because Israel somewhat played by the rules. I emphasize somewhat!! next time I don't think they'll spare a town or a monument! what will prevent them from reoccupying Lebanon?

Well then why in every damn hezbollah city there is nasrallahs face on a ceramic, or a painting INSIDE every store, dakan, company...its like he is the Bashar al Assad of leb lol

lol, if you are serious with that question Im gonna give you an answer.
People are proud over Nasrallah because he LIBRATED lebanese land.
For some who dont live in the south, they might feel that nasrallah and his organization didnt make any big difference. But for others who for once could enter their village without showing their id:s to the SLA it was a triumf.

^^^^That still doesn't make sense to me. I am from Falougha, syrians pretty much used my village and surrounding mountains as their military base. There are still unexploded mines surrounding the fresh water springs from which we all get Sohat water.

When Cedar revolution happened, and those fools left I don't recall placing a pictures of any politician/person in my house.. nor did other people in the village.

And the syrian's were terrible to us too, consistently robbing the area and who knows what else. My parents never let me take a camera outside because they had little booths up everywhere, and a kid with a camera isn't something they are welcoming too.

^^^^That still doesn't make sense to me. I am from Falougha, syrians pretty much used my village and surrounding mountains as their military base. There are still unexploded mines surrounding the fresh water springs from which we all get Sohat water.

When Cedar revolution happened, and those fools left I don't recall placing a pictures of any politician/person in my house.. nor did other people in the village.

And the syrian's were terrible to us too, consistently robbing the area and who knows what else. My parents never let me take a camera outside because they had little booths up everywhere, and a kid with a camera isn't something they are welcoming too.

I believe you, Syria was a big mess to Lebanon. I dont seriously think Syria did any good to Lebanon, and I remember mysself how the syrians were a pain in the ass when leaving Lebanon through the airport.


So you dont find pictures of Hariri everywhere?.
Many people think that the martyr Rafik al Hariri was behind the liberation from Syria. I see pictures of him everywhere, at least in muslim areas. The ceremony every 14 feb is not only a honour to Hariri but a celebration to how the lebanese people together, one strong hand managed to resist occupation.
You can compare that to how people honour Nasrallah and their willness to whatch his speeches.

just wanna add one more thing.
Forcing Israel out of Lebanon could not be done through a revolution,,military force was necessarily. Kickin syria out of Lebanon was done through international pressure which is an impossibility to get when it comes to Israel.

^^^^That still doesn't make sense to me. I am from Falougha, syrians pretty much used my village and surrounding mountains as their military base. There are still unexploded mines surrounding the fresh water springs from which we all get Sohat water.

When Cedar revolution happened, and those fools left I don't recall placing a pictures of any politician/person in my house.. nor did other people in the village.

And the syrian's were terrible to us too, consistently robbing the area and who knows what else. My parents never let me take a camera outside because they had little booths up everywhere, and a kid with a camera isn't something they are welcoming too.

I sympathize with you. The Syrians were a big pain in the ass and I think Lebanon is much better off now that they're gone. My uncle has a summer home in Hammana and the Syrians had a "base" overlooking the town as you descend into it. In fact, I think I read that the truck used to assassinate Rafic Hariri was stored at this Syrian base.

I remember my first visit to Baalbeck back in 2003 and going through many Syrian military checkpoints. In the 90's when I was younger, I remember how they were all over Beirut. The checkpoint at the airport now manned by the Lebanese Army, was controlled by the Syrians. They were even inside the airport terminal.

I do consider Israel to be a threat to Lebanon, but it should be the responsibility of the Lebanese Army to defend the country from any aggression, both internal and external. Hezbollah's armed status is preventing the state from fully normalizing and extending control throughout all its territory.

@ramy: why heaving problems with seeing nasralllah everywhere if you also see 7ariri everywhere in trablous and surroundings?

I am saying one strike and hisballah is gone! :)

Don't let me laugh :lol: That's exactly what they thought in 2006, the last day of the war more missiles were fired than in the beginning and a helicopter was shot down.

eYr54MxDzWQ

just wanna add one more thing.
Forcing Israel out of Lebanon could not be done through a revolution,,military force was necessarily. Kickin syria out of Lebanon was done through international pressure which is an impossibility to get when it comes to Israel.

True, and untill that time we need military defense. But the LAF can't defend lebanon with their oldfashioned weapons and tactics, first they need heavy upgrades for defense, only then 7izbollah's army can go away when the national army is strong enough.

That's because Israel somewhat played by the rules. I emphasize somewhat!! next time I don't think they'll spare a town or a monument! what will prevent them from reoccupying Lebanon?

man, y is it so hard to understand? Israel - doesn't - need - peace...can't you see what's happening to the Pals? All Abbas can do is cry and complain and say he's resigning cause the WB is turning into a big Israeli settlement and no one in Israel listens to him or the group of nawar that follow him like saeb erekat, abed rabbo etc... all of them will die without any single accomplishment and will soon be forgotten and replaced.

As their neighbour, peace can only be achieved with Israel if Lebanon remains a weak state militarily and economically speaking...mark my words...Now which neighbours achieved peace with Israel? Egypt and Jordan...Egypt is clearly a weak state in all senses, and Jordan is too and will remain weak, cause no thinking brain inside Israel will ever allow to have a bunch of palestinians with Jordanian passports piloting new generation fighter jets or practicing with advanced missiles in the desert, 50 km from TAviv...to have access to a strong military, you need cash, you need to develop your economy and money will automatically lead to arms...this is where the red line lies. Jordan is a pice of desert with no natural ressources and egypt has a bit of water, a lot of sand, some good mloukhiyya and msaqqa3a and a wide repertoire of funny jokes...indeed threating weapons...

oh please, maybe you could also tell us what to do with the 0.5 million palestinians living in our small country...maybe you can ask Israel, since according to you it's a democratic peace loving state, to help us with this issue opening the gates for peace. Maybe you can also convince them to withdraw from Sheb3a and then the evil HA will ran out of reasons to exist in front of most lebanese...those are our pre-conditions for a truce and to negotiate right? Why don't they do that? it's so easy...

@ Beiruti i repeat myself, becuase you are to ignorant and unratioanal to take into consideration what i say, i provide true facts, u scamper away with pathetic sentences portraying no sense. No offense, but your and Melkart's arguments HAVE NO INFORMATION, NO TRUTH, NO FACTS, NO SENSE. Melkart has never said anything that isnt 100 percent portraying his unconditional love and affection for a state of terrorism, and that does not bash Hezbollah for no reasons; to the extreme extent.

Who ever here thinks that Hezbollah is not capable of kicking Israel's ass, is a complete foul. Think again, and review this conflict, Beiruti, Melkart maybe your stay in America, and exposure to mainstream media outlets have decieved the shit out of you, but do some research........ Israel is scared
Any new conflict will move into their cities, and new conflict will bring complete destruction to their country. THEY and international writers have admitted this. But once again what can you expect from you guys.

Read Nasrallah's latest speech...

In commemoration of the anniversary of the martyrdom of its leaders Sheikh Ragheb Harb (Sheikh of the Resistance's martyrs), Sayyed Abbas Moussawi (Sayyed of the Resistance's martyrs) and Hajj Imad Moghniyyeh (Hezbollah top military commander), Hezbollah held a ceremony Tuesday to mark the day of "loyalty to the Martyrs" and remember the sacrifices of the Resistance martyrs and heroes.

The ceremony, held at the Sayyed As-Shouhadaa' complex in Beirut's southern suburb, is attended by State Minister Adnan Sayyed Hussein representing President Michel Sleiman and MP Ali Hasan Khalil representing Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri as well as a representative of the Army Commander General Jean Qahwaji and various political and national forces.

Hezbollah Secretary General Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah delivered a speech and paid tribute to the martyrs and their families.
“I condole the Muslim nation for the anniversary of Prophet Mohammed’s (pbuh) death. I would like to condole the families of the crashed plane (Ethiopian plane that crashed last month off Lebanon’s coast) who are still waiting for the bodies of their loved ones to be recovered. On the fifth anniversary of the martyrdom of former Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri, I offer my condolences to his respected family and all our brothers in the Mustaqbal (Future) Movement.”

Sayyed Nasrallah determined the main characteristics of the leaders of the resistance, particularly those who have made the ultimate sacrifice.
“Modesty, love, sensibility are among other features, but I would like to emphasize the youth factor. Those leaders, when they were young, had sufficient awareness regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict, Palestine, and the Aqsa.”

The Hezbollah chief underlined the responsibility of preserving the will of the leaders, that is to preserve their achievements “which is the fruit of their lives, the fruit of their sacrifices. The accomplishment they left us with is the resistance.”

“This puts us in front of several questions and options. In Lebanon, we always go back to square one whenever there are threats and we do not make use of experiences…We always go back to the same questions; the same questions of 1982, before it, and after it. Questions like: Cane the US protect Lebanon? Can it really? Obama failed to stop settlement building. Can international resolutions and the international community protect Lebanon? Can this community that only respects the strong protect Lebanon by being neutral? Can we persuade Israel through the international community to return the Shebaa Farms and the Palestinian refugees? We’ve read in today’s newspapers that (Avigdor) Lieberman says: Those who think that any settlement can make us return a meter of soil is mistaken. His deputy says: The return of Palestinian refugees is a red line. I find it very weird, brothers and sisters, that in Lebanon we even discuss self-evident truths…Everything indicates that in facing invaders and occupiers, survival is for the fittest. There is no place for the weak in these equations and principles. Only the strong can fulfill their goals. Can Lebanon be strong? Yes. We have proven that Lebanon was strong and today Lebanon is much stronger than ever. Lebanon is strong by means of the wonderful formula with which we face the many challenges: The army, the people, and the resistance; a formula adopted by the Lebanese government.”

Sayyed Nasrallah said that the positions of the President, the House Speaker, the Prime Minister, and the Army leadership clearly express national unity in the face of Israeli threats to Lebanon. “We are ready to discuss the notion of giving Israel pretexts to attack Lebanon but what’s more serious is what we’ve been hearing lately in Lebanon insinuating that the mere existence of the resistance is enough reason for the enemy to wage war, and to prevent this, the resistance should be eliminated. This is very dangerous because it gives Israel every reason to attack Lebanon. Unfortunately, some Lebanese are saying what the Israelis themselves are not saying. They are holding the resistance responsible in advance for any Israeli attack. Is this really a call for war? This is a justification that some Lebanese are giving to Israel to wage war.”

The Secretary General stressed Israel has been living a dilemma since its failure in Lebanon during the 2006 war. “Israel has not been able to impose peace or wage war. What’s been taking place in Israel following the 2006 and Gaza wars is normal; the Israelis have acknowledged failure and admitted that the resistance has grown stronger. When Israel wants to go to war, it has to be conditional. They should be able to accomplish a clear, decisive, and guaranteed victory, not just victory as a possibility.
In Lebanon, Palestine and Syria, we are so strong that Israel cannot wage war on us whenever it wants to. It is not enough for Israel to have a strong possibility of victory because this entity cannot tolerate another defeat. In Israel, there is a problem of recruiting soldiers and many other problems related to self-confidence. I tell the people in Israel that the Iron Dome issue is more science fiction than reality. Some are still questioning its feasibility. Israel still needs time to address its tactics and at the same time, its policy is to stop the power of its enemies from growing. They are following three measures: 1-Threatening with war; if you bring this kind of weapons will do so and so…rest assure, we’ll bring them, that is if we haven’t brought them already. 2- The security measures: Assassinating Hajj Redwan (Imad Moghniyeh) and (Mohammed) Mabhouh among others. 3- Sedition: What hindering the inter-Palestinian reconciliation is Israel and any Arab who hinders this reconciliation is doing Israel a favor.”

Sayyed Nasrallah said threat should be faced with courage. “When Israel threatened Syria with war, the foreign minister, who is the top diplomat, responded. This was intentional and not just a coincidence. I am sure that Israel and Arab regimes were stunned when they heard the Syrian response because it was clear and transparent. Two hours after the response, everyone in Israel was denying threatening Syria. This is an example. You remember (Ehud) Barak speaking about a swift and decisive victory…But what we are hearing today is that any Israeli war should have ‘modest objectives.’ Barak himself said the following two months ago: ‘If you look at the Lebanese border you will find everything is quiet, but if you raise your head a little more, you will find tens of thousands of Hezbollah fighters ready for us.’ When their tone began to fade out, they set the so called “Dahiyeh Theory.” This theory stipulates destroying Beirut’s southern suburb, although the Israeli Air Force was incapable to achieve more than it had achieved during the 2006 war. In August 2009, we told them that if you hit Dahiyeh, we’ll hit Tel Aviv and that we long for war but we do not want it. We have to know that the real concentration of Israelis stretches from south of Haifa to south of Tel Aviv, at a 15-kilometer deep line to the east. The bulk of residents are there, and so are oil refineries and factories and practically everything. They might think that they can destroy buildings in Dahiyeh and that we can barely puncture a few of their buildings. If you destroy buildings in Dahiyeh, we’ll demolish buildings in Tel Aviv.”

Sayyed Nasrallah added that “when Israel found that there war=s nothing that can demoralize the resistance, they went to threaten the Lebanese government and people of destroying the infrastructure. Just as we have infrastructure, there is infrastructure in occupied Palestine. We have one airport and they have airports, we have a few electricity stations and they have huge electricity stations, they have oil refineries and we have a few. The Israeli infrastructure is much more bigger than ours and therefore I tell them the following: If you strike martyr Rafiq Hariri’s international airport in Beirut, we’ll strike your Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv. If you hit our ports, we will hit your ports. If you attack our refineries or factories, we’ll bomb your refineries and factories.
Today, on this occasion, I announce and accept this challenge. As people, army, and resistance, we are capable of protecting our country and we do not need anyone in this world to do this for us. This is how we face threats: with more threats, not with retreat, not with fear, but with steadfastness and threats. We have never sought war but we have the responsibility to defend our country and to stand firm on our land.”

On martyr Imad Moghniyeh’s assassination, the resistance leader said: “Today, on the anniversary in memory of Imad, I say that we seek revenge as big as Imad Mugniyah. That is what we want. Not revenge for the sake of revenge, but in order to defend all of our leaders. In the last couple of years, we had lots of small opportunities to avenge Hajj Redwan’s death, but we did not go for them, because the killing we want to avenge is Imad Moghniyeh’s. Our enemy is anxious, let him stay anxious. We will choose the time, the place and the target which we want to be worthy of the martyrdom of Imad Moghniyeh.”

“We are loyal to the path of our leaders and we tell our martyrs that they can rest assure that their path will always be open and the cause they sacrificed their lives for will be fulfilled. We are your sons and your brothers and we will fulfill your dreams God willing.”

^^ Read this especially the huge font part...

And please (: ...... provide me with a rational discussion, with facts, and sense.

good quote jader, totally agree with it!

And how about the nazi germans that killed dutch resistance men, were the dutch resistance fighters also the ones who caused all the suffering? No!

With kosovo we helped the opressed, so we should do here!

^^ Read this especially the huge font part...

And please (: ...... provide me with a rational discussion, with facts, and sense.


I don't see what Nasrallah or you or the dutch guy find so surprising. Hizbullah's existence and its use of violence against Israeli civilians is the only conceivable reason for Israel to enter Lebanon and fight yet another war. So if the 'resistance' were to be disbanded, then what reason would Israel have to enter Lebanon? If not for Hizbullah, who would fire rockets from Lebanon into Israeli towns and who would kidnap Israeli soldiers/civilians? Probably no one. And this is why Israel would have no reason to enter Lebanon again as a warring neighbour.

yes,right,so i would feel better if our infrastructure was destroyed just because israel's is destroyed too? SERIOUSLY???!!! is that the speech that made you fly from happiness?? u have to get your head examined.

^^ Well when you have been harassed by Israel's since 82, it is a good feeling to know they wont mess with you again, and if they do they will get their ass kicked. That's a sense of security. That's the good feeling bro...... :)

^^ even if your country is destroyed?? :S so i must be mentally ill to think otherwise then.
also,why not just integrate within the Lebanese army,with all the weapons and everything,just to make sure that won't be used for any other purposes than "defending" Lebanon? i know that you know the answer if this so freakin easy question. :)

yes,right,so i would feel better if our infrastructure was destroyed just because israel's is destroyed too? SERIOUSLY???!!! is that the speech that made you fly from happiness?? u have to get your head examined.

Huh? I think we are basically agreeing on the same idea, just from two different perspectives.

^^ Well when you have been harassed by Israel's since 82, it is a good feeling to know they wont mess with you again, and if they do they will get their ass kicked. That's a sense of security. That's the good feeling bro...... :)

What security? This is your sense of security? Your 'resistance's' FAILURE to prevent things like this from happening, gives you a sense of security?

^^

i think i speak in the name of many lebanese if i ask for this dirty individual to be banned from this forum. It is disgusting to have to put up with such a provocation...this guy just showed his true face by posting pictures of the destruction in our country, in which many innocents lost their lives, trying to teach us a lesson of what is waiting for us. Regardless of the mixed opinions that we lebanese might have, it is insulting to say the least, to have to put up with this.

Beiruti, you are in charge here...i don't think any of us goes to Israeli forum posting pictures of this kind.

I don't see what Nasrallah or you or the dutch guy find so surprising. Hizbullah's existence and its use of violence against Israeli civilians is the only conceivable reason for Israel to enter Lebanon and fight yet another war. So if the 'resistance' were to be disbanded, then what reason would Israel have to enter Lebanon? If not for Hizbullah, who would fire rockets from Lebanon into Israeli towns and who would kidnap Israeli soldiers/civilians? Probably no one. And this is why Israel would have no reason to enter Lebanon again as a warring neighbour.

Exactly, this is the point they fail to understand.

We do have clusters of random Paledtinian/Syrian/Arab terrorists that may fire a rocket or two but they are not under the banner of "Resistance" so Israel wont hold our whole country responsible.

@ aezzeddi, I agree.

yes,right,so i would feel better if our infrastructure was destroyed just because israel's is destroyed too? SERIOUSLY???!!! is that the speech that made you fly from happiness?? u have to get your head examined.

You are right, it's a very sad and shocking speech, but what would you expect from a war mongering militia leader?

^^ even if your country is destroyed?? :S so i must be mentally ill to think otherwise then.
also,why not just integrate within the Lebanese army,with all the weapons and everything,just to make sure that won't be used for any other purposes than "defending" Lebanon? i know that you know the answer if this so freakin easy question. :)

Hassoun please refrain from making any personal attacks...some things dont have to be said out loud.

^^

i think i speak in the name of many lebanese if i ask for this dirty individual to be banned from this forum. It is disgusting to have to put up with such a provocation...this guy just showed his true face by posting pictures of the destruction in our country, in which many innocents lost their lives, trying to teach us a lesson of what is waiting for us. Regardless of the mixed opinions that we lebanese might have, it is insulting to say the least, to have to put up with this.

Beiruti, you are in charge here...i don't think any of us goes to Israeli forum posting pictures of this kind.

The pictures have been deleted, but I dont think his intent was to provoke or threaten. He certainly does NOT want this to happen to our country again and is worried that Hizballah's stance will cause this once more.

^^

i think i speak in the name of many lebanese if i ask for this dirty individual to be banned from this forum. It is disgusting to have to put up with such a provocation...this guy just showed his true face by posting pictures of the destruction in our country, in which many innocents lost their lives, trying to teach us a lesson of what is waiting for us. Regardless of the mixed opinions that we lebanese might have, it is insulting to say the least, to have to put up with this.

Beiruti, you are in charge here...i don't think any of us goes to Israeli forum posting pictures of this kind.

Those pictures are fact! This isn't a provocation, it is meant to remind you of the type of destruction that will incur if Hisballah maintains its war mentality! You just want chevre banned because it reminds you ofthe reality of the situation. you are in complete denial!

^^ but i myself got offended when i saw those pics,and i am anti-Hizbullah,people homes and lives were destroyed in such places.

^^

i think i speak in the name of many lebanese if i ask for this dirty individual to be banned from this forum. It is disgusting to have to put up with such a provocation...this guy just showed his true face by posting pictures of the destruction in our country, in which many innocents lost their lives, trying to teach us a lesson of what is waiting for us. Regardless of the mixed opinions that we lebanese might have, it is insulting to say the least, to have to put up with this.

Beiruti, you are in charge here...i don't think any of us goes to Israeli forum posting pictures of this kind.

I understand you don't like me or my opinions and therefore you want me banned. But anyone who knows my history in this forum (Lebanon SSC) knows that I am neither a troll nor a provacteur. I was challenging the other guys claim, as I clearly mentioned in my post. If this genuinely hurt people or brought back bad memories, then I apologize as this was not my intention.

Moreover, if you go back to my previous posts, you know that I am anti-war and therefore am against the kind of escalations and tensions that culminate with such deadly and destructive violence. As I've said in the past, one of the reasons why I am upset about the war in 2006 is because it caused so much death and suffering among innocent people and in spite of this, Israel and Lebanon today are no less likely to fight another war than we were in June 2006. So nothing 'positive' has been accomplished from that war if we are close today to fighting another war, which would surely waste more lives and destroy more homes and families.

EDIT: And you know what's really insane? Is that I don't think that most people in Israel or perhaps in Lebanon wanted it. It was almost as if both sides fought a war against their wills. Don't get me wrong, everyone in Israel was cheering for Hizb's destruction, but NO ONE wanted Qana (except for some extremist a$$holes). People didn't support the war in Lebanon to go and kill Lebanese civilians and to ruin their lives; they supported it to destroy Hizbullah, which has threatened our lives. In the end, of course, we did cause much death and destruction, but this was most definitely not what most people wanted to see nor something that most Israelis are proud of.

israeli, you have a problem that is common to most israelis...your lack of respect for the people whom you abuse is so offensive, and your lack of respect for non-jewish human life is also offensive...you contributed to spreading the concept of collateral damage and took it one step further by officialising the concept of "hit civilians and civilian infrastructure to spread fear, crush the enemie's will to resist and divide them". That is why you post such pictures...to remind us of what Israel is capable of doing...

In the wars you fight you show no mercy and you have no limits. You commited massacres during the occupation, during the 2006 war, during the Intifadas...always the same scenario coupled with the same statements and lies...terrorists here and terrorists there...that's all you talk about...give the palestinians their rights back, let the pals living in lebanon go back to their homes, leave sheb3a, stop violating our land and airspace, and learn to be humble and respect the others. we all want peace, but if it means giving up my dignity well i'm happy the way i am today

That is it this discussion is becoming offending to me, and it is ridiculous.

LISTEN UP FOR ONCE AND ANSWER WHAT I RIGHT FOR ONCE!!!!!!!!

You are right, it's a very sad and shocking speech, but what would you expect from a war mongering militia leader?

What are you 5 or something, how immature you are, what a moderator huh???
For you to call Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah a mongering "militia" leader. I have said thousands of time, and reinforce thousands of times, I HAVE PORTRAYED EVIDENCE, ORGANIZED POINTS, SENSE, AND MATURITY on this forum, i have respected all leaders in Lebanon, as we are all Lebanese. But i will not have a discussion with people, who i have successfully opposed on previous discussions. You guys just keep coming back with no argument, just your immaturity, and personal insults. Leb-Fr, Jb-nl, alisaleh dont mess around with these guys they are ignorant to an extreme level. More importantly, they have no humanity, in their views, their views are aggressive, violent and very extreme. Ever time we discuss and successfully oppose them, they just come back with their words of aggression. Their skulls are thick to comprehend simple concepts, and simple evidence.

many people on this forum hold civil discussions
But you guys it's like talking to a brick wall, your views are worse then the deepest republican. And it is one thing to be able to stand up to your views, and support yourself, but it is another to post 2 lines of personal attacks, and run away. I will not waste my time, with people who are not willing to have a civilized argument. I will not waste my time debating with Melkart, or Beiruti, it is TRULY A WASTE ON KEYSTROKES. All others i am open to though, because they reply with more than 2 lines, provide me with sense and a civilized argument. And you know why you say 2 lines and run, Because you have no argument, you just clinge on to your ignorant views, because you know no better. Truly sad.

What security? This is your sense of security? Your 'resistance's' FAILURE to prevent things like this from happening, gives you a sense of security?

Have short-term memory loss. We already had this discussion, i successfully opposed your views.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=404863&page=196

israeli, you have a problem that is common to most israelis...

Lebanese, I'd appreciate it if we quit it with the negative generalizations/stereotypes. Thanks.

your lack of respect for the people whom you abuse is so offensive, and your lack of respect for non-jewish human life is also offensive...

Who do I abuse? Whom do I lack respect for exactly? And how did you come up with this nonsense that I lack respect for non-jewish human life? Didn't I just very clearly state that one of the reasons why I don't want any more war is because I don't want another Qana? Because I don't want to see more civilians killed, be they Lebanese, Palestinian or Israeli?

you contributed to spreading the concept of collateral damage and took it one step further by officialising the concept of "hit civilians and civilian infrastructure to spread fear, crush the enemie's will to resist and divide them".

That clearly has nothing to do with why I posted those pictures. And moreover, this clearly contradicts every point that I've just made.

That is why you post such pictures...to remind us of what Israel is capable of doing...


First of all, I grew out of that mentality a while ago. On the one hand, yes, I take pride in my country's army; and on the other hand, I don't feel the need to boast about all the ways in which it can destroy your country or kill people. You already know all of this. And besides, it would be only a little bit callous and insensitive of me to come to this forum and to intentionally try to gloat about how my country can destroy your country. Sorry, that's not what I am about.

In the wars you fight you show no mercy and you have no limits.

As if you <Hizb> do? At least in our defence, we dropped leaflets warning civilians to escape in Lebanon in 2006 and in Gaza in 2008. Hizbullah would never give such warnings to civilians in northern Israel.

You commited massacres during the occupation, during the 2006 war, during the Intifadas...always the same scenario coupled with the same statements and lies...terrorists here and terrorists there...that's all you talk about...give the palestinians their rights back, let the pals living in lebanon go back to their homes, leave sheb3a, stop violating our land and airspace, and learn to be humble and respect the others. we all want peace, but if it means giving up my dignity well i'm happy the way i am today

Why should anyone respect your dignity when you don't have any appreciation for human life? Protecting innocent human life is more important than your dignity (or mine or anyone else's).

israeli, you have a problem that is common to most israelis...your lack of respect for the people whom you abuse is so offensive, and your lack of respect for non-jewish human life is also offensive...you contributed to spreading the concept of collateral damage and took it one step further by officialising the concept of "hit civilians and civilian infrastructure to spread fear, crush the enemie's will to resist and divide them". That is why you post such pictures...to remind us of what Israel is capable of doing...

In the wars you fight you show no mercy and you have no limits. You commited massacres during the occupation, during the 2006 war, during the Intifadas...always the same scenario coupled with the same statements and lies...terrorists here and terrorists there...that's all you talk about...give the palestinians their rights back, let the pals living in lebanon go back to their homes, leave sheb3a, stop violating our land and airspace, and learn to be humble and respect the others. we all want peace, but if it means giving up my dignity well i'm happy the way i am today

Dud, dont waste your time i have said what you said about 9-17 times on this forum. Even when you own them in argument, they just come back a few days later, spitting words of ignorance. Go to the link i posted up there see that 20 page range. See for yourself what this thread is like. (:

We still have the Pacific Ocean option :D

First of all, I grew out of that mentality a while ago. On the one hand, yes, I take pride in my country's army; and on the other hand, I don't feel the need to boast about all the ways in which it can destroy your country or kill people. You already know all of this. And besides, it would be only a little bit callous and insensitive of me to come to this forum and to intentionally try to gloat about how my country can destroy your country. Sorry, that's not what I am about.

:lol::lol: You cant destroy our country. We have kicked your ass twice, and we will again, your new "tank" technology haha a joke. Your army official admitted that at this point you will lose the war. Why don't you flip to the last page, and take a cruise at the posts, you might want to check out that video, and it's corresponding series ;)

We still have the Pacific Ocean option :D

haha it tokk me a while to remember that one.......

:lock:

ma3le ya shabeb badna nrawe2a ;)

^^ lol,8 days late :lol:

In fact it is a ma3sa3 politics in Lebanon. There is no more, march 8, or march 14......................

y'all should be happy though, i would rather have unity, then division...............

ma3sa3? what's ma3sa3 ??

ma3 sa3ed maybe ^^ ?

hehe, ma3sa3.... yani joke.

I probably should of said ma37sa3.

^^ I think you mean maz7a.
I also think you should work on your arabic :nuts: ma37sa7 can't be even pronounced!

yea heheheh i just learned how to read and write this year.....

and the southern american accent on arabic is pretty bad.....
but abu dhabsss helped it.

^^ Ah sorry then, just stay away from adding randomly the 7 and the 3 and youll be fine :)

So it is obvious that Hezbollah has acquired more powerful, destructive, and accurate rockets. The reason being that he named and pinpointed exact locations in Israel. Sayyed Hassan cannot, and will not bluff. Were it to be a lie, then he would only be hurting Hezbollah, and moreover, he isn’t known to make such false claims.

Who gives a damn on how destructive Lebanon or Israel is! Sounds like a bunch of teenage bullies threatening one another.
This is why there will never be peace, the mindset on both sides is completely corrupted.

Yes, that's what I was waiting for, to hear self defence, being characterized as bullying.

This forum is becoming awashed with the same bullshit, repeated over and over again!

^^ I agree...inter-lebanese debates are boring...we don't need to agree 100%, it's enough if we don't kill each other...for example, I often find your stands insulting, however, you being a lebanese forces me to respect your opinion, cause if I didn't I'd have to start a war and try to kill you and you'd definetly try to kill me, and that makes no sense cause we both love life, don't we...indeed lebanon is a special place...

^^ of course i meant : you being a LEBANESE , FORCES me to....bla bla bla... which is very different from : you being a LEBANESE FORCES ...hehe....yes, sure, of course... :p

lol yeah i knew what you meant! :)

So it is obvious that Hezbollah has acquired more powerful, destructive, and accurate rockets. The reason being that he named and pinpointed exact locations in Israel. Sayyed Hassan cannot, and will not bluff. Were it to be a lie, then he would only be hurting Hezbollah, and moreover, he isn’t known to make such false claims.

Congratulations on acquiring these weapons! :applause:

Who gives a damn on how destructive Lebanon or Israel is! Sounds like a bunch of teenage bullies threatening one another.
This is why there will never be peace, the mindset on both sides is completely corrupted.

+1

Congratulations on acquiring these weapons! :applause:

What is your point??

Who gives a damn on how destructive Lebanon or Israel is! Sounds like a bunch of teenage bullies threatening one another.

Who gives a damn??
Hehe i don't want to start another argument; but i think you can figure this one on your own.

I agree...inter-lebanese debates are boring...we don't need to agree 100%, it's enough if we don't kill each other...for example, I often find your stands insulting, however, you being a lebanese forces me to respect your opinion, cause if I didn't I'd have to start a war and try to kill you and you'd definetly try to kill me, and that makes no sense cause we both love life, don't we...indeed lebanon is a special place...

:cheers:

What is your point??


My point is is that it sounds completely retarded and juvenile to boast about who has the biggest and newest weapons with which to kill the most people possible. What do you think Bibi would do to south Lebanon and the Bekaa if Nasrallah made good on his threats to attack Tel Aviv? I don't think anyone would feel good in that scenario. I wouldn't feel good having rockets falling on my home and I wouldn't feel good knowing that my country would have to go into Lebanon again (this time fighting according to "the Dahiyeh doctrine") and cause even more death and destruction to the lives of innocent people.

^^ He does have a good point!

What is your point??



Who gives a damn??
Hehe i don't want to start another argument; but i think you can figure this one on your own.



:cheers:

We should be giving a damn on how to prevent a war FOREVER. Why is this so difficult to understand? Do you not understand how destructive war is? Did you forget 75'-90' and 06'? Aren't you sick of it?
Its not only on the Lebanese side, the war machine is well oiled on the Israeli side too. What he have is a positive feedback loop that fuels tensions and increases the likelihood of war. :bash:
Like I said, the mindset on both sides is corrupted :ohno:

The question is why can't israel just pull out from northern Ghajar and Shebaa farms area,and put Hizbullah in a very bad situation? are they benefiting from its presence in a way?

The question is why can't israel just pull out from northern Ghajar and Shebaa farms area,and put Hizbullah in a very bad situation? are they benefiting from its presence in a way?

Israel put Hizbullah in a 'bad situation' in 2000 when it withdrew from Southern Lebanon. And look where it got us? How many more 'bad situations' should we have to create? My feeling is is that once Israel gives up control of Southern Ghajjar and Shebaa, Hizbullah is going to claim that Israel is occupying the '7 Shia Villages" and find one more reason to continue waging war.

^^ BTW,what do u think of these villages?
because without these villages,Lebanon is less than 10425km2. so,why not withdrawing from these lands,and then Hizbullah won't find any excuse,and the internal pressure on it to disarm will be too huge to ignore.

^^ BTW,what do u think of these villages?
because without these villages,Lebanon is less than 10425km2. so,why not withdrawing from these lands,and then Hizbullah won't find any excuse,and the internal pressure on it to disarm will be too huge to ignore.

Sure, and after we give up those villages, what next? Nahariya? Haifa? Tel Aviv?

^^ no,because these places were never part of Lebanon.

^^ totally agree

^^ BTW,what do u think of these villages?
because without these villages,Lebanon is less than 10425km2. so,why not withdrawing from these lands,and then Hizbullah won't find any excuse,and the internal pressure on it to disarm will be too huge to ignore.

Thay already said that withdrawing from our lands is not enough reason to disarm. incase you are wondering! also I am in favor of a withdrawl obviously, however the Israelis are keeping the land as a trump card. If they give up the land that will signal a hisballah victory just like they claimed when Israel withdrew from southern Lebanon! Now I don't want everyone to think that I am giving the Israel;is an excuse to keep the land on the contrary I think they should pull out inmmediatly!

^^ Melkart,the Lebanese won't allow hizbullah keep its arms if it withdraws from all Lebanese land.imagine half the country is against their arms and we have Shebaa farms and northern Ghajar and the rest still occupied.

^^ Melkart,the Lebanese won't allow hizbullah keep its arms if it withdraws from all Lebanese land.imagine half the country is against their arms and we have Shebaa farms and northern Ghajar and the rest still occupied.

And what if Hizbulah decides it wants to keep its weapons? Who in Lebanon can tell them (or even force them) to do otherwise?

And suppose Israel withdraws from Shebaa Farms and South Ghajjar. Then what? Would Hizbullah fight for the Palestinians? There will never be a lack of excuses to fight.

Why do people keep ignoring the fact that SYRIA is occupying Shebba!

Why do people keep ignoring the fact that SYRIA is occupying Shebba!

Huh??? The Shebaa Farms are an extension of the Golan Heights, which are occupied by Israel. There has been no Syrian presence in the Shebaa Farms or Golan Heights since 1967.

^^ BTW,what do u think of these villages?
because without these villages,Lebanon is less than 10425km2. so,why not withdrawing from these lands,and then Hizbullah won't find any excuse,and the internal pressure on it to disarm will be too huge to ignore.

Those 7 Shia villages aren't part of Lebanon. They were ceded by the French to the to the British, before Israel was formed and before Lebanon became an independent country.

Same thing with the Golan Heights, which were originally part of the British Mandate, but were ceded to the French so it became Syrian.

^^ Melkart,the Lebanese won't allow hizbullah keep its arms if it withdraws from all Lebanese land.imagine half the country is against their arms and we have Shebaa farms and northern Ghajar and the rest still occupied.

so how will we disarm them? by asking please? LOL

Huh??? The Shebaa Farms are an extension of the Golan Heights, which are occupied by Israel. There has been no Syrian presence in the Shebaa Farms or Golan Heights since 1967.

Perhaps he means they have the prove of ownership, which they refuse to share.

What is this that I am hearing????????????????????????????? That they will invade Lebanon? WTF! :(

Perhaps he means they have the prove of ownership, which they refuse to share.

The Syrians claim sovereignty to the Shebaa Farms.

I do think the Shebaa Farms are Lebanese, but this is not a clear cut issue. The dispute over the Shebaa Farms goes back to poor demarcation of the borders by the French during the French mandate. There are many historical Lebanese and French made maps which show the Shebaa Farms as Syrian. There are many other parts of the border with Syria that are poorly demarcated which is why a Lebanese-Syrian border commission needs to be appointed ASAP.

lets hope not.... bcz otherwise this year looks like the most promising ever.

^^ well, that is exactly what 2006 looked like back then !!!

The Syrians claim sovereignty to the Shebaa Farms.



I do think the Shebaa Farms are Lebanese, but this is not a clear cut issue. The dispute over the Shebaa Farms goes back to poor demarcation of the borders by the French during the French mandate. There are many historical Lebanese and French made maps which show the Shebaa Farms as Syrian. There are many other parts of the border with Syria that are poorly demarcated which is why a Lebanese-Syrian border commission needs to be appointed ASAP.


yes But Bashar said this isn't the right time! LOl

Huh??? The Shebaa Farms are an extension of the Golan Heights, which are occupied by Israel. There has been no Syrian presence in the Shebaa Farms or Golan Heights since 1967.

Of course I wasn't being literal. They are "occupying" by not acknowledging the land is Lebanese (if it truly is) and therefore allowing Israel to continue its occupation. So indirectly Syria is holding the land hostage (and we all know why).

Samme, Chevre, Melkart please read this clearly and answer clearly.

The whole peace subject in no way relies, or is "depend" on the shebaa farms.
The current Lebanese land that is occupied by Israel; only plays one out of many roles in this subject.

Firstly, all Lebanese want is peace, all Southern Lebanese people want is peace. That is the sole reason Hezbollah exists. Hezbollah by all means is a 100 percent justified, resistance. Beiruti you fail to understand that Hezbollah needs no more reasons to exist. Since 1982, we have millions of reasons to exist. Since 2006 we have millions of reasons to exist. Because us Southern Lebanese are peace-loving people, because we want, and will seek the right to pursuit happiness, because we have the right to live a life that abides by the laws of humanity, we have a resistance.

That being said; In modern terms peace between the two countries require the following to stop happening:

- Israeli warplanes EVERY DAY violate Lebanese airspace, for 3-7 hours.
- Israeli seaplanes nearly daily violate Lebanese sea space and harass fishers.
- Israeli seaplanes fired artillery into Tyre, numerous times.
- Israel steals Lebanese water, and a HUGE rate.
- Israel has set up hundreds of spying systems in Lebanon, and injected the LAF with many spies.
- Many cross-border raids that led to the kidnapping and beating of Lebanese civilians.

- ISRAEL NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ACTS OF TERRORISM IT HAS COMMITTED; AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY NEEDS TO FORCE ISRAEL TO SEEK PEACE, AND BECOME A PEACE LOVING NATION.

How in your possible minds can you say that Hezbollah's concept is corrupt or unjustified. And how in your right mind can you say that peace relies on Hezbollah or Lebanon. YOU CANT.

My point is is that it sounds completely retarded and juvenile to boast about who has the biggest and newest weapons with which to kill the most people possible. What do you think Bibi would do to south Lebanon and the Bekaa if Nasrallah made good on his threats to attack Tel Aviv? I don't think anyone would feel good in that scenario. I wouldn't feel good having rockets falling on my home and I wouldn't feel good knowing that my country would have to go into Lebanon again (this time fighting according to "the Dahiyeh doctrine") and cause even more death and destruction to the lives of innocent people.

Hehe; excuse my language all, but i feel it is necessarily to express my point and anger, at address these ignorant selfish crap. For 18 years Southern Lebanon has been trough literal hell, why you Israel's eat popcorn at watched, now you tell us that we don't have the ****** right to match your strength, you know what for once i can hold my head up high in the air, and say not only will we never be harassed by you guys again, but this time we will give you a glimpse of what we were through if you try to **** around with our country. And don't worry about yourself, Hezbollah does not target civilians, we are not terrorists like your military. Unlike you guys we want and love peace. Not want and love aggression treachery and terrorism.

Wow that felt good.......... ...

^^ Last time I checked, we have an Army and ISF to protect us.

And what if Hizbulah decides it wants to keep its weapons? Who in Lebanon can tell them (or even force them) to do otherwise?

And suppose Israel withdraws from Shebaa Farms and South Ghajjar. Then what? Would Hizbullah fight for the Palestinians? There will never be a lack of excuses to fight.

So you are saying that withdrawing from the Lebanese Lands will not disarm or put Hizbullah under HUGE PRESSURE not to attack israel ? ok,so in both cases Hizbullah got the weapon,it's getting stronger and stronger as we speak,isn't it better to withdraw then and see what will happen?as u can see keeping this land occupied is getting you much trouble,it didn't protect you during wars,also it's used in a way or another to make hizbullah stronger and stronger not to mention new generations of Lebanon growing up seeing you occupying part of their country,ALL THAT,and you still want to keep it? it only gives me the idea that you are nothing but an occupation force.and believe me,this is not good,and you should have learned that already.withdrawing from the land is much better for israel's interests,otherwise,you are really hiding something and planning for something against Lebanon in the future.

So you are saying that withdrawing from the Lebanese Lands will not disarm or put Hizbullah under HUGE PRESSURE not to attack israel ? ok,so in both cases Hizbullah got the weapon,it's getting stronger and stronger as we speak,isn't it better to withdraw then and see what will happen?as u can see keeping this land occupied is getting you much trouble,it didn't protect you during wars,also it's used in a way or another to make hizbullah stronger and stronger not to mention new generations of Lebanon growing up seeing you occupying part of their country,ALL THAT,and you still want to keep it? it only gives me the idea that you are nothing but an occupation force.and believe me,this is not good,and you should have learned that already.withdrawing from the land is much better for israel's interests,otherwise,you are really hiding something and planning for something against Lebanon in the future.

I mean, Israel withdrew before from Lebanon (as was recognized by UN resolutions) and Hizbullah came up with new claims that Israel was occupying even more Lebanese land. All I know is this- I can trust Hizbullah's word when it comes to war, but not for peace. Hizbullah has no track record to speak of when it comes to peace. However, Israel does- we made peace with Egypt and Jordan and we honoured those peace agreements. We haven't entered or fought with either country since signing the peace treaties.

^^ Last time I checked, we have an Army and ISF to protect us.




:lol::lol: :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :rofl: :rofl:


....oh, sorry, you were serious? Um, with all due respect to the army, (because I really do respect them and understand it isn't their fault) with WHAT weapons?

All I know is this- I can trust Hizbullah's word when it comes to war, but not for peace. Hizbullah has no track record to speak of when it comes to peace. However, Israel does- we made peace with Egypt and Jordan and we honoured those peace agreements. We haven't entered or fought with either country since signing the peace treaties.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

LMFAO....are you seriously going to come with this CRAP?

Hezbollah emerged as a result of Israeli persecution, as a result of Israeli occupation.

Israel was and still is, and will always be an aggressor as long as it exists. Once an aggressor always an aggressor. How was Israel founded? By peace correct?

Was the Gaza the canonization of the Gazans :nuts: ?

There was never any peace treaty between Lebanon and Israel, nor is there one right now, because you guys break it with your daily military flights over Lebanese airspace.

You say Hezbollah has no track record when it comes to peace, but Israel does. Okay, I will try to take this in one at a time.

I will reiterate, Hezbollah emerged because it wanted to end an occupation, to bring about peace for its people, while Israel's creation only brought terror to the hearts of Palestinians, and still to this day murders and has the stain of Palestinian blood on its flag.

But if you really want to say that Israel has a track record for "peace," yes, you are right, only when it benefits them. Why didn't Israel ever attempt at peace with Lebanon during the occupation? Because there was no pressure on Israel (hadn't Hezbollah come about, Israel would still in Lebanon to this day), while in the Egyptian and the Jordanians had actual armies, that were causing casualties and deaths on the Israeli side. While Hezbollah on the other hand, wouldn’t just make a war because it feels like it.

it only gives me the idea that you are nothing but an occupation force.

:lol: I thought this point was made already...from its birth...literally

Whats up with this thread? It's awfully funny today -_-

^^ :lol:

I was going to say the same thing.

Its funny 1.0 just ignored what i wrote, becuase he knows he cant say anything. hehe

^^I'm glad you guys find this thread extremely amusing, but it's sort of sad though.

^^ :lol:

I was going to say the same thing.

Its funny 1.0 just ignored what i wrote, becuase he knows he cant say anything. hehe

or that he realizes that he is arguing with a 15 year old! :nuts:

:lol::lol: :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :rofl: :rofl:


....oh, sorry, you were serious? Um, with all due respect to the army, (because I really do respect them and understand it isn't their fault) with WHAT weapons?

give us your weapons :) and Problem solved :cheers:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

LMFAO....are you seriously going to come with this CRAP?

Hezbollah emerged as a result of Israeli persecution, as a result of Israeli occupation.

i) Israel was and still is, and will always be an aggressor as long as it exists. Once an aggressor always an aggressor. How was Israel founded? By peace correct?

Was the Gaza the canonization of the Gazans :nuts: ?

ii) There was never any peace treaty between Lebanon and Israel, nor is there one right now, because you guys break it with your daily military flights over Lebanese airspace.

You say Hezbollah has no track record when it comes to peace, but Israel does. Okay, I will try to take this in one at a time.

I will reiterate, Hezbollah emerged because it wanted to end an occupation, to bring about peace for its people, iii) while Israel's creation only brought terror to the hearts of Palestinians, and still to this day murders and has the stain of Palestinian blood on its flag.

But if you really want to say that Israel has a track record for "peace," yes, you are right, iv) only when it benefits them. Why didn't Israel ever attempt at peace with Lebanon during the occupation? Because there was no pressure on Israel (hadn't Hezbollah come about, Israel would still in Lebanon to this day), while in the Egyptian and the Jordanians had actual armies, that were causing casualties and deaths on the Israeli side. While Hezbollah on the other hand, wouldn’t just make a war because it feels like it.

i) so Hezbollah will remain as long as Israel exists? do i sense a long and never ending road of trouble here?

ii) what chevre was pointing out is that the reason israel violates lebanon is simply because there is no peace deal. you said it yourself : "There was never any peace treaty between Lebanon and Israel, nor is there one right now". How do you know Israel will violate lebanese airspace once a peace agreement is made, since there never has been one?
on the other hand though, chevre is right. Israel keeps its word once an agreement is made. you simply don't want to make one, as it is not part your interests as we all know why.

iii) so what? ... are you Palestinian or Lebanese?

iv) no nation ever signs anything unless it benefits them.

you're saying that israel signed a peace agreement with egypt and jordan because those 2 countries posed a threat to israeli civilians. Hezbollah has done the same, by posing a threat (of some sort ;) ) to israel. so i think israel is ready to sign a peace agreement with hezbollah and lebanon... i really believe you're all better off stepping down in honor and respect now rather than get beaten and humiliated eventually... you don't really wanna end up on the same page as hitler in later history books.

or that he realizes that he is arguing with a 15 year old!

Hehe than a 15 year old successfully opposes your arguments, holds a civilized argument, while you merely put a few words together and add a personal insult.

so Hezbollah will remain as long as Israel exists? do i sense a long and never ending road of trouble here?

yo johnny Scroll up a bit, and read!!!!!!!:bash::bash:

what chevre was pointing out is that the reason israel violates lebanon is simply because there is no peace deal. you said it yourself : "There was never any peace treaty between Lebanon and Israel, nor is there one right now". How do you know Israel will violate lebanese airspace once a peace agreement is made, since there never has been one?
on the other hand though, chevre is right. Israel keeps its word once an agreement is made. you simply don't want to make one, as it is not part your interests as we all know why.

Damn are you ignorant, how can you just delete 15 years of history once again SCROLL UP AND READ!!!!! Hezbollah has not broken one law of humanity, never targeted a civilian!!!
Israel each and every day violates UN RESOLUTIONS, they have statistically broken the most un resolutions.

ONCE AGAIN WITH ALL DUE RESPECT READ WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN AND THEN TRY TO ARGUE.

Firstly, all Lebanese want is peace, all Southern Lebanese people want is peace. That is the sole reason Hezbollah exists. Hezbollah by all means is a 100 percent justified, resistance. Beiruti you fail to understand that Hezbollah needs no more reasons to exist. Since 1982, we have millions of reasons to exist. Since 2006 we have millions of reasons to exist. Because us Southern Lebanese are peace-loving people, because we want, and will seek the right to pursuit happiness, because we have the right to live a life that abides by the laws of humanity, we have a resistance.

That being said; In modern terms peace between the two countries require the following to stop happening:

- Israeli warplanes EVERY DAY violate Lebanese airspace, for 3-7 hours.
- Israeli seaplanes nearly daily violate Lebanese sea space and harass fishers.
- Israeli seaplanes fired artillery into Tyre, numerous times.
- Israel steals Lebanese water, and a HUGE rate.
- Israel has set up hundreds of spying systems in Lebanon, and injected the LAF with many spies.
- Many cross-border raids that led to the kidnapping and beating of Lebanese civilians.

- ISRAEL NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ACTS OF TERRORISM IT HAS COMMITTED; AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY NEEDS TO FORCE ISRAEL TO SEEK PEACE, AND BECOME A PEACE LOVING NATION.

LET ME REPEAT THAT AGAIN
- ISRAEL NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ACTS OF TERRORISM IT HAS COMMITTED; AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY NEEDS TO FORCE ISRAEL TO SEEK PEACE, AND BECOME A PEACE LOVING NATION.

I will not risk my life, or risk my basic human rights, again until that happens.
And it is only logical and justified for this to happen. Israel has committed and continues to commit acts of terrorism each day, i want to move on, i want peace but the country of Israel needs to be held accountable for its acts of terrorism and furthermore; the international community needs to push Israel towards peace. But when the largest superpowers, and UN-vetoers embrace the Israeli regime this is very far-fetched. This concept is really not hard to grasp!!! Peace lies and depends on Israel, not Lebanon. And if you have not noticed yet; Israel is not a peace-loving nation, it is the farthest possible thing on earth from it!!!

This is critical to understand. And this point is clear, and can not be argued with. I repeat the same crap, you guys repeat the same insults!!!

But if you really want to say that Israel has a track record for "peace," yes, you are right, only when it benefits them. Why didn't Israel ever attempt at peace with Lebanon during the occupation? Because there was no pressure on Israel (hadn't Hezbollah come about, Israel would still in Lebanon to this day), while in the Egyptian and the Jordanians had actual armies, that were causing casualties and deaths on the Israeli side. While Hezbollah on the other hand, wouldn’t just make a war because it feels like it.

Actually, Israel occupied as a result of Palestinian attacks from Lebanon into Israel. And no one did (or could do) anything to stop them. So let's not keep taking things out of historical context. And since I know how you are going to respond to this statement--- let me pre-empt by asking you how these hardcore, militant Palestinians ended up fighting out of Lebanon? Because they got themselves kicked out of Jordan when they tried to destroy that country as well. Israel isn't accountable for the actions of Palestinian militants who have tried to destroy Lebanon and Jordan. They must be held accountable for their own actions.

Second, Israel DID attempt to make peace with Lebanon in the early 80's. And very well might have done so had Gemayel not been assassinated.

Third, EVERY senior Israeli politician in the last few years has re-iterated their desire to make peace with Lebanon's government. So you can't say that there is no serious desire on Israel's side.

^^ Israel wanted to make peace in the 80s. You make me sick bro.

^^ Israel wanted to make peace in the 80s. You make me sick bro.

Yeah, actually it did. It's not like we were the one's who assassinated Bachir.

I don't think he is aware of the 1980's Israeli /Lebanese Peace negotiations Chevre.

:lol::lol: :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :rofl: :rofl:


....oh, sorry, you were serious? Um, with all due respect to the army, (because I really do respect them and understand it isn't their fault) with WHAT weapons?

I'm afraid this attitude is the precise problem. Instead of making fun of the Lebanese military and its lack of weaponry, you should support building up the Lebanese military's capabilities and its role in protecting the country from both internal and external threats, instead of supporting a non-state militia.

It's no wonder Hezbollah greatly fears the Lebanese military's recent attempts to build up its arsenal. They want the Lebanese military to remain weak. It's convenient for them.

give us your weapons :) and Problem solved :cheers:

:applause:

I don't think he is aware of the Israeli Lebanese Peace negotiations Chevre.

The May 17 treaty would not have held. Lebanese public opinion was against it.

^^ That might have been the case, but my point was to let Jader know that such talks did occur. He seemed unaware of such attempts. :)

It's no wonder Hezbollah greatly fears the Lebanese military's recent attempts to build up its arsenal. They want the Lebanese military to remain weak. It's convenient for them.


Yes, and your proof of this is?

Thank you all for reminding me why again I stopped debating topics on this site. Good Bye again -_-

I mean, Israel withdrew before from Lebanon (as was recognized by UN resolutions) and Hizbullah came up with new claims that Israel was occupying even more Lebanese land. All I know is this- I can trust Hizbullah's word when it comes to war, but not for peace. Hizbullah has no track record to speak of when it comes to peace. However, Israel does- we made peace with Egypt and Jordan and we honoured those peace agreements. We haven't entered or fought with either country since signing the peace treaties.

Sorry,in case you missed that,,,THIS IS NOT ONLY ABOUT HIZBULLAH,and your reply is not really an answer.
oh and according to UN RESOLUTIONS,u r still occupying Lebanese kand,northern Ghajar,not to mention Resolution 1701 requires to determine the fate of Shebaa farms.

yo johnny Scroll up a bit, and read

you have a really hot headed attitude problem, i'm not sure if anyone noticed. i think i might have seen you 3am bet fa22e bezer 3ala ras el sheri3 w tsawfer 3al banet.

some respect.

Sorry,in case you missed that,,,THIS IS NOT ONLY ABOUT HIZBULLAH,and your reply is not really an answer.
oh and according to UN RESOLUTIONS,u r still occupying Lebanese kand,northern Ghajar,not to mention Resolution 1701 requires to determine the fate of Shebaa farms.

Hassoun the occupation of Ghajar is the least of our priorities, The Israeli pullout will bring or add nothing to the peace process. Hassan nasrallah already said that even if Lebanese land is liberated they will not disarm! If I was the Israeli government i would pull out, so they would have less excuses. but at the end it will solve nothing!!!

That might have been the case, but my point was to let Jader know that such talks did occur. He seemed unaware of such attempts.

And why was Lebanon against?? Because Lebanon did not want a Israeli puppet to run our country; where do you think we would be know if that was the case. Furthermore; while Israel was taking enormous steps to fuel different political parties, so that the war can rage on, and so our economy can get deeper in shit; while Israel was committing the worse acts of terrorism in this world(which your thick skulls can not seem to comprehend!!) And you think that Israel wanted good for our country.

Honestly Lebanese Cedar, from previous discussions, i thought that you where full of sense. Now with your clapping it seems not.


Yes, and your proof of this is?

Thank you all for reminding me why again I stopped debating topics on this site. Good Bye again -_-

AGREED THIS THREAD IS SHIT IN ALL WAYS POSSIBLE, YOU PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT AND FULL OF SHIT. I feed you facts, evidence and sense, you can say nothing back and go back to personal insults. Well let me tell you something i have better things to do than aurgue with people, who have no argument, and who fail to aurgue back, fail to provide sense, or a civilized aurguent back, i am not here to get insulted, every time i sucesfuly opose your views and you guys have nothing to say. You guys need to widen your though bubble, you guys need to start to see crystal clear facts, and unaurgable messages, furthermore, you need to see the real, and only terrorists in the equation. All of y'all's ignorance makes me sick, your replies eking a few words and a insult make me sick. But understand that your extremist views, have been proven false. And alisaleh there is no point in arguing like i said earlier before beiruti locked the thread:

I have said thousands of time, and reinforce thousands of times, I HAVE PORTRAYED EVIDENCE, ORGANIZED POINTS, SENSE, AND MATURITY on this forum, i have respected all leaders in Lebanon, as we are all Lebanese. But i will not have a discussion with people, who i have successfully opposed on previous discussions. You guys just keep coming back with no argument, just your immaturity, and personal insults. Leb-Fr, Jb-nl, alisaleh dont mess around with these guys they are ignorant to an extreme level. More importantly, they have no humanity, in their views, their views are aggressive, violent and very extreme. Ever time we discuss and successfully oppose them, they just come back with their words of aggression. Their skulls are thick to comprehend simple concepts, and simple evidence.

many people on this forum hold civil discussions
But you guys it's like talking to a brick wall, your views are worse then the deepest republican. And it is one thing to be able to stand up to your views, and support yourself, but it is another to post 2 lines of personal attacks, and run away. I will not waste my time, with people who are not willing to have a civilized argument. I will not waste my time debating with here, it is TRULY A WASTE Of KEYSTROKES. All others i am open to though, because they reply with more than 2 lines, provide me with sense and a civilized argument. And you know why you say 2 lines and run, Because you have no argument, you just clinge on to your ignorant views, because you know no better. Truly sad.

Peace out (: |||

Aren't you tired of repeating the same effin words over and over again?
Obviously you won't change their point of view and they won't change yours.
so why don't you all just shut the duck up.

Honestly Lebanese Cedar, from previous discussions, i thought that you where full of sense. Now with your clapping it seems not.

Just because I am critical of Israel and what they've done to Lebanon and the Palestinians, doesn't mean I'm a Hezbollah supporter. I'm not and I never was and I never will be. Besides opposing their Islamic fundamentalist ideology, they should have long disarmed and handed their weapons to the state. After the south was liberated in 2000, it was time for the state to extend its sovereignty to all its territory and build up its institutions. Hezbollah's continued armed status has undermined the state and continues to undermine the state to this day. The entire country is being held hostage to Hezbollah and Hezbollah's decisions.

I fully agree with Samir Geagea's recent statement about Nasrallah's war speech.

Aren't you tired of repeating the same effin words over and over again?
Obviously you won't change their point of view and they won't change yours.
so why don't you all just shut the duck up.

:applause:

Aren't you tired of repeating the same effin words over and over again?
Obviously you won't change their point of view and they won't change yours.
so why don't you all just shut the duck up.

LOL :lol:

Hassoun the occupation of Ghajar is the least of our priorities, The Israeli pullout will bring or add nothing to the peace process. Hassan nasrallah already said that even if Lebanese land is liberated they will not disarm! If I was the Israeli government i would pull out, so they would have less excuses. but at the end it will solve nothing!!!

sorry,i have to disagree with you here.
not withdrawing from the land is an indication that they have bad intentions towards us as a nation,Lebanon is not just Hizbullah and they know it,they are just taking advantage of this situation.

The trio!

http://www.nowlebanon.com/Library/Images/MainPagePictures/nijad-nasralla-assad-syria.jpg

^^ when are they going to die along with Netanyahu and co. ?

What is that rosy thing? pickled turnips?

^^ LMFAO, I WAS LOOKING AT THE FOOD TOO!!

they dont have my fav, sambousik, or the ardeh shawkeh with lemon juice... sho hal sofra hay! LOL

^^ when are they going to die along with Netanyahu and co. ?

Not soon..their food seems to be healthy on the other hand nesrallah looks red and fat but maybe he is just happy.

The trio!

http://www.nowlebanon.com/Library/Images/MainPagePictures/nijad-nasralla-assad-syria.jpg
look how the interpreter is in the middle between Assad and Nejad,it's one of two things;
1- Nasrallah is a very good Farsi speaker.

2- He's their servant and just a picture and really their Lebanese puppet :ohno:

Not soon..their food seems to be healthy on the other hand nesrallah looks red and fat but maybe he is just happy.
smallah 3am yedweh! masha3sha3 el 2ouda. Bas leish heik hemleeno w ma 7ateenlo la 3aseer walla water ... 3anjad. 2ellet zou2

^^ When/where was this taken?! Was this the "axis of evil" dinner party?

^^ :lol: and can Nasrallah really speak Farsi?

^^ LMFAO, I WAS LOOKING AT THE FOOD TOO!!

they dont have my fav, sambousik, or the ardeh shawkeh with lemon juice... sho hal sofra hay! LOL

omg fried sambousik stuffed with keshek and pines :drool:

^^ :lol: and can Nasrallah really speak Farsi?

As far as I know he studied in Iran.

omg fried sambousik stuffed with keshek and pines :drool:


3am te2re batneh! yum, je3et!

I would like to add this aswell:

http://www.trella.org/c/?p=814

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6605/berrri.png

WTF? seriously WTF? Abu L Abed anyone?

PS: if you notice the glass reflection on the right you would see something that looks like feet
wel3ane lol

look how the interpreter is in the middle between Assad and Nejad,it's one of two things;
1- Nasrallah is a very good Farsi speaker.

2- He's their servant and just a picture and really their Lebanese puppet :ohno:

He really looks left out, that's for sure!

^^ When/where was this taken?! Was this the "axis of evil" dinner party?

Yesterday.

^^ :lol: and can Nasrallah really speak Farsi?


No -_-

The trio!

http://www.nowlebanon.com/Library/Images/MainPagePictures/nijad-nasralla-assad-syria.jpg


Allah Yi7yee hek Rjel

^^ When/where was this taken?! Was this the "axis of evil" dinner party?

Inno ya3ne kteer mahdoom, inta kteer cool

^^ Well,from the post just above this one,u sounded cooler actually :P

^^ Well,from the post just above this one,u sounded cooler actually :P

Noo 7abeebi sadi2ne Beiruti mkawel 3al ekher...mish momken koon ana cooler-_-

^^ when are they going to die along with Netanyahu and co. ?

mich ablak :)


edit:
Just a note, I absolutely HATE that syrian in the middle.

Allah Yi7yee hek Rjel

seriously? May I just remind you that the 'rejjel' you adore in the middle occupied your country for 30 years, beat up your fellow lebanese on the streets, humiliated us, and stole from us, 3an jad, alla ye7yee :) ma3ak 7a2!!

^^ when are they going to die along with Netanyahu and co. ?
I hope soon specially the left one!!

To follow up to what Leb.IT said, I understand calling Nasrallah rjeil.. The man lost his son fighting for a cause he believes in! but the other two?! Ali walaw?

Sorry bg bass lei heik 3am te7ke ma3 Hassoun? Walaw..:|

En ken Hassoun aw gheyro, be3te2ed kent jewabet nafsel jaweb...
Bas kil chi ella ma tez3aleh Dark Angel 666 :D

Im just trying to push your buttons lol :D

En ken Hassoun aw gheyro, be3te2ed kent jewabet nafsel jaweb...
Bas kil chi ella ma tez3aleh Dark Angel 666 :D

rez2alla :D

http://image.examiner.com/img/header/examiner_logo-header.gif

Ethiopia claims Lebanon has tainted ET409 inquiry
February 28, 7:37
AMAirlines/Airport ExaminerJoel Siegfried

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID18134/images/Lebanon-42aaaa.jpg
Ethiopian Airlines CEO Girma Wake (AP Photo/Samson Haileyesus)

Ethiopian Airlines CEO Girma Wake has issued a scathing list of grievances against the Republic of Lebanon over the ET409 crash inquiry, as reported on Saturday, February 27, by Kaleyesus Bekele in the Ethiopian newspaper, The Reporter.

Charges against Lebanon include
(1) denied access to the families of the Lebanese passengers who perished when ET409, a Boeing 737-800, crashed some 4 minutes after taking off from Beirut (BEY) last January 25;
(2) denied examination of the recovered remains;
(3) discrepancy in the number of bodies reported as initially recovered, 25 compared with the 14 that were actually available at the Beirut morgue;
(4) denied access examining the recovered CVR;
(5) accusations that the CVR had been tampered with and partially erased;
(6) inadequate responses to questions posed to Lebanese officials;
(7) denied access to the crash site to make first hand observations;
(8) denied access to a transcript of an interview with a Lebanese army officer who swore that he observed the aircraft explode while aloft, and failure to produce that witness;
(9) leaking of false and misleading information;
(10) breaking an agreement to preserve confidentiality; and
(11) obstructing the investigation and keeping the Ethiopian 13-member delegation composed of senior pilots, medical personnel and other professionals from full participation in the investigation process.

These are not minor annoyances or petty grievances. Both countries have apparently received a preliminary report from BEA, an agency of the French government that is analyzing the available data in its laboratories near Paris, and conducting field interviews. As Mr. Wake stated, "If someone uses political power to alter the theme of the report then we will discuss this."

A cousin of Ethiopian Airlines plane crash victims Fuad and Abbas Jaber release balloons as she mourns on the beach in Khalde, south of Beirut, Lebanon, Friday, Jan. 29, 2010 (AP Photo/Hussein Malla) Mr. Wake's language would make any diplomat grimace, because it is blunt and unfiltered. He went on to say at a press conference last Wednesday in Addis Ababa, the Ethiopian capital, "It is not in line with what our two countries have signed for. Are we out for a big war? I hope the investigators will put some sense into the investigation and come out with a proper working system, thereby avoiding a war between nations, between authorities. I'm hoping that may not be necessary, but we are not ready to accept a conclusion made without a proper analysis."

Anyone who speaks of war, whether figuratively or not, is throwing down the gauntlet. It is obvious to this observer and others, that Mr. Wake has been pushed to his limits, and is expressing extreme frustration and betrayal.

As the CEO pointed out, "A lot of war has been going on in Lebanon, the whole area has been full of political turmoil; divisions within countries in the region. Because of that people can take their own wild guesses. The very fact it happened at Beirut airport at time when it is politically sensitive, does gives people to put their own thinking into it." What he was implying was sabotage, or some other terrorist act.

From the very start, Lebanon has ruled out terrorism. They first blamed violent thunderstorms, lightning, wind shear, and micro bursts, then implied that the incident was caused either by technical failure or human error.

For any outside observer, who is accustomed to following an accident investigation with daily briefings, photographs and displays of the evidence, independent technical analysis, media access, consistent statements, and above all transparency, the process within Lebanon is highly irregular, and potentially alarming.

Answers to simple questions would go far in clearing up ambiguities. These include: What was the original departure clearance granted to ET409?
Were there other aircraft, as we have uncovered, in the area?
Why was ET409 allegedly given instructions to change course? Had it already been granted clearance to return to Beirut?
Was Captain Habtamu Benti Negasa the Pilot in Command (PIC) at takeoff?
If he was not flying the aircraft, at the first indication of a problem, did he issue the command "My Aircraft" to First Officer Alula Tamerat? Did Mr. Tamerat reply, "Your Aircraft, Captain", and hand off control.
Were intelligence satellite surveillance operating in the area sending classified data to a third country that would have picked up anomalies, such as the highly classified and secretive National Security Administration?
Why were there long delays between locating and retrieving both data recorders?
Who had access to these recorders once recovered, and what was the chain of custody?
Were there indications of burns or traces of nitrates on the bodies of the passengers? Did recovered pieces of the aircraft show an implosion, charring, or deformation not consistent with water impact?

Any investigative authority would ask these questions, and others. Eventually, they will have to be addressed, incorporated into findings, or eliminated as having no cause for this incident. Our coverage will continue as additional information becomes known.

http://www.examiner.com/x-18134-AirlinesAirport-Examiner~y2010m2d28-Ethiopia-claims-Lebanon-has-tainted-ET409-inquiry

Leb Cedar, I'd love to hear your input to the above questions and accusations..

mich ablak :)


edit:
Just a note, I absolutely HATE that syrian in the middle.

Well,then i wish my day is today,so that they all can die tomorrow ;)

Thanx þopsï :)

^^wla b3eed el sharr! :) Let them die shu khassak enta!

^^ Merci 7ayete :) lol,you are right,they are not worth it anyway :D

^^ These accusations are taking it a bit to far, the Lebanese Government in no way, shape, or form would want that plane to go down. The Ethiopian people are taking about Lebanon like it is their country, if they don't want to be in RFIA airport then they can fuck off, they have already caused us enough damage.


Qawouk: Phone tapping confirms Washington’s violation of Lebanese sovereignty
As-Safir’s Friday report that US espionage cells is tapping Lebanese phone lines confirms Washington’s violation of Lebanese sovereignty, Hezbollah official in South Lebanon Sheikh Nabil Qawouk said on Monday.

The US cells have the same objectives as the Israeli Mossad, Qawouk said, calling on Lebanese security services to dismantle all such networks.

The state should no longer disregard US violations of Lebanon’s security, said Qawouk, adding, “We know how to differentiate between friendly states and those that are Israeli accomplices.”

-NOW Lebanon

Interior Ministry defends actions over US information request

The Interior Ministry issued on Friday a statement that it would not process requests that infringe Lebanon’s sovereignty or security, responding to an As-Safir newspaper article on the issue published earlier in the day.

The daily reported that on April 1, 2009 the US Embassy in Lebanon requested information from the forensic investigation chief in the Internal Security Forces (ISF) on communications in Lebanon, including Lebanese cellular network stations and their locations.

According to the Interior Ministry statement, the request mentioned in As-Safir did not deal with phone-tapping, but rather was part of an application filed by the US embassy for a special training program.

The Interior Ministry and ISF Directorate General did not approve the US request or give an opinion on it, the statement said. The Interior Ministry added that it transferred the application on April 29, 2009 to the Telecommunications Ministry since it is the ministry relevant to the US request.

According to the statement, the Telecommunications Ministry declined the request, after which the US cancelled the training program that was to use the requested information.

-NOW Lebanon

More than one month has passed on the assassination of Hamas chief Mahmoud al-Mabhouh through an operation in which forged passports were used, the issue of Israeli holders of European passports was seriously raised in Lebanon, especially regarding the threats on the Lebanese national security…

According to reports, Interior Minister Ziad Baroud has told the member of Loyalty to the Resistance parliamentary bloc MP Hasan Fadlallah, who had previously raised the passports issue in the last parliamentary session, that his ministry will take the necessary measures.

The information was confirmed by General Security Director Major General Wafiq Jezzini who told Al-Manar that Lebanon was technically ready to follow up on the inbound passengers and the individuals who receive them at the airport in order to prevent the Israeli Mossad of exploiting the forged passports to enter Lebanon.

Jezzini said that the general security is observing a circular of Jewish family names, noting that "when someone arrives in Lebanon with a foreign passport and a surname that indicates a Jewish origin, the border crossing points are sending the passenger's data to the central information office in the General Directorate of General Security that follows up on this person, especially that this person would have registered a temporary residence address in Lebanon."

"We are following up on the inbound passengers and the individuals who receive them at the airport," he added. "There is another method which we can follow, and usually imply, that is to inspect or authenticate the birth place of the inbound passengers."

Pan-Arab daily As-Sharq Al-Awsat earlier said that Lebanese General Security Department at Rafik Hariri International Airport has started to tighten security measures for European passengers arriving in Beirut.

According to the daily, "no complaints from Irish or British nationals have been recorded so far about harassments upon arriving in Beirut." However, the British foreign ministry confirmed "it will examine the situation," adding that it would directly submit any complaints to the Lebanese government.

As to Ireland, it expressed its "deep concerns" against the new measures. An Irish foreign ministry spokesperson told the newspaper that "the issue now is the responsibility of the European Union," adding that a meeting for the foreign affairs council was held last Monday to discuss immunizing European passports.

He stressed that the EU will decide "step by step" the necessary decisions in this regard, noting that the council has already condemned the usage of forged European passports in murdering al-Mabhouh, describing the incident as "deeply worrying."

The spokesperson called for the cooperation of all concerned nations with the investigation opened by the Dubai police.

Twelve British, six Irish, four French, one German and three Australian passports were used by the suspects, according to Dubai police.

In all cases, the taken measures are believed to be a legitimate right for Lebanon to safeguard its security. Even more, such measures are considered to be a duty according to the concerned parties who called on all countries to respect this right, especially in the face of the Israeli daily violations to the Lebanese sovereignty.

^^ All the way with these measures,but we need to be smart is applying these measures. we are a touristic country after all,and we need to be careful.

@jader

The Lebanese government can't scruitinize people who have a Jewish surname. The Mossad would never send someone to Lebanon named "Cohen" or "Mendel', for instance. It would be too obvious. Maybe they would give them a surname like "Mohammed" or "Hassan". ;)

Anyhow, I imagine that Lebanon- with Hizbullah- has much better internal security than Dubai.

Leb Cedar, I'd love to hear your input to the above questions and accusations..

The Examiner isn't a good source to quote as it contains articles written by amateurs and not necessarily professionals. I could sign up for it and start writing articles if I wanted.

I've been following this guy's articles about the Ethiopian crash closely. He often misquotes information attributed to another source. MOST of the accusations he highlights were not made by Ethiopian Airlines' CEO, but by a speculative article from an Ethiopian website called The Reporter.

The Ethiopian Airlines' CEO has expressed frustration at how Lebanese officials made lots of speculation early on after the crash. He's partly right, some Lebanese officials did speculate a lot early on, but the Transport Minister Ghazi Aridi has been careful not to speculate, but some media sources have incorrectly quoted him in the past which made it appear he was speculating. For example, early on he said the plane did not properly respond to the air traffic controller's requests to change its heading, so several media outlets incorrectly stated that he said the pilot ignored the control tower, which is not what he said.

What has harmed the reputation from the Lebanese side however is how they all ruled out terrorism/sabotage immediately following the crash, which made many in the international community suspicious. I agree that terrorism/sabotage is very unlikely, but it is not wise to rule it out, especially immediately.

The recent claims about how the Lebanese government tampered with the cockpit voice recorder and deleted segments from it are absolutely ridiculous. For one, there is a seal on the memory device so if the government did tamper with it, it would show! It's not something anybody can hide. Plus this is giving the government too much credit, they don't have the capability to retrieve the contents from either the FDR or CVR. That's why they were sent to Paris. The Ethiopian Airlines' CEO did not make this accusation however, it was the Ethiopian website The Reporter that did.

As for locating and retrieving the FDR and CVRs, it took a while to find them. They were not found quickly despite earlier media reports. When they did eventually locate the approximate area, it took some time to pinpoint the exact location. Remember it was the US Navy and the ship Ocean Alert that were helping in location the black boxes, not Lebanon. Lebanon doesn't have advanced underwater sonar equipment. They first found the FDR and it was sent to Paris immediately, a few days later they found the CVR, but it turned out the memory device had separated from it, so divers went back to search for it and they eventually found it after a few more days and it was immediately sent to Paris.

I am hoping the BEA preliminary report will be released by the government on Wednesday to put an end to all this crazy speculation and accusations.

LC I think you should write to the examiner! :)

Prime Minister Saad Hariri on Monday stressed "the maintaining of constant contacts with the Syrian leadership," adding that "serious efforts are being made to build a vital Lebanese-Syrian relation."
"We are working on developing the relation with Syria and other Arab countries, especially that Lebanon exists at the heart of the Arab region," Hariri told reporters in Doha.

As to his trip to Qatar, Hariri noted that "a special relation gathered between the martyr premier Rafik Hariri and Qatar, and today's visit aims to fortify bilateral relations."

Answering a question on Israeli threats against Lebanon, Hariri stressed that "the government is strictly following up on Israeli steps."

"We won't accept a war waged at our expense and Lebanon won't be a battleground for anyone. Whether Israel is going to attack Hizbullah, the South, or Dahiyeh, we have to fortify internal national unity to face any possible attack," he added.

"Israel is taking Hizbullah's participating in the government as a pretext to justify its aggression. Hizbullah has been a part of the government since 2005, while Israel attacked us in 2006 and is still threatening Lebanon," Hariri said, adding: "Do those who threaten to wage war want peace?"

Commenting on Hizbullah Secretary-General Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah's latest speech, Hariri said: "No one doubts Sayyed Nasrallah's intentions, and some considered that the speech created a state of deterrence in the face of Israel. We know that Israelis are seeking an alibi, so we shouldn't show any division in our ranks. We, on the other hand, doubt Israel's intentions, and therefore we should enhance internal unity."

As to the national dialogue table, Hariri noted that "President Michel Suleiman is the one who puts the criterions," adding: "When I return (to Lebanon), I will meet my allies to define our stance."

Earlier Monday, Hariri met with Qatari Emir Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al-Thani at the Emiri Diwan to discuss bilateral ties and developments in the region in light of recurrent Israeli threats.

@jader3283 Lebanon isn't a sovereign nation so how can America be violating its sovereignty.

LC I think you should write to the examiner! :)

I've thought about it. :)

@jader3283 Lebanon isn't a sovereign nation so how can America be violating its sovereignty.

:hm:

Thanks Leb Cedar :okay:

Libya Threatens to Expel Lebanese if Beirut Boycotted Summit
Libya has reportedly threatened to oust Lebanese nationals if Beirut decided to boycott the Arab summit in Tripoli.
The daily Al-Liwaa on Tuesday quoted a well-informed Libyan source as saying that the Libyan government is closely following up developments in the Lebanese stance regarding its participation in the Arab summit scheduled to be held in Tripoli later this month.

The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Libya has prepared the "appropriate response" should Lebanon decide to boycott the summit.

He said the "painful" step-by-step measures to be taken include a decision to expel Lebanese nationals working and living in Libya, who number about 20,000.

The source said the measures will not only have "negative repercussions" on Lebanese-Libyan relations frozen for a long time over the disappearance of Imam Moussa Sadr, but will also have harmful effects on Lebanon's economy.

Sadr disappeared in 1978 along with two companions after departing to Libya for talks with government officials.

Libya has been widely perceived as being responsible for Sadr's disappearance while he was on a trip to Tripoli some 30 years ago.

Sadr was a towering figure in Lebanon as he was trusted by political leaders from across the spectrum. He personified the essence of Lebanon's national unity and many believed that Lebanon could have been spared the agony of Civil War had Sadr been there.


Naharnet - Beirut, 02 Mar 10

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/0/FE4175D49B2E1C90C22576DA0020706F?OpenDocument

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6626/imgsizephp.jpg

^^The mistake was having the Arab summit in Libya! A country ruled by a clown.

I find it sadly hilarious how he has called a Jihad against Switzerland. This man is crazy.

Sayyed Nasrallah to Israelis: You’ll Never Return to Lebanon!

http://www.almanar.com.lb/NewsSite/WebsiteImages/PicturesFolder/96bb09e4-7504-4f94-856c-c7daa4886bd6_top.jpg


Hezbollah Secretary General Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah noted on Monday that the Israeli enemy was forced to change its tone and to seek pacification on its northern border, warning that the choice of war has major and dangerous implications and it is not limited to Israel.

While emphasizing that the resistance is strong because it is embraced by its people, the thing that frightens Israel, Sayyed Nasrallah addressed Israeli President Shimon Peres who declared Israel's failure and that it pulled out from Lebanon for good, saying: “You will never return to Lebanon.”

Sayyed Nasrallah was speaking through a large TV screen to mark the Prophet’s birthday as a part of the Week of Islamic Unity in the Sayyed As-Shouhadaa’ complex at the southern suburb of Beirut.

Sayyed Nasrallah started his speech by stressing the importance of Islamic unity given the current situation. His eminence noted that points of disagreement between Muslims can be turned into points of unity, emphasizing that there should be no reason for the Muslim to be divided when there is a willingness for them to be united.

Turning into politics, Sayyed Nasrallah noted that the Israeli enemy is indifferent to the one billion Muslims in the world and is seeking to include occupied Jerusalem within its territory and to include the Muslims’ holy sites in a so-called Israeli national heritage. “All this happens amid an Islamic and Arab silence only violated by minor denouncement statements,” his eminence said, adding that nobody is actually defending the Muslims’ holy sites except the Palestinians who are falling victims day after another.

“Israel doesn't expect any response from the Arab street nor from Arab governments. It rather takes into account the minority found in Lebanon and Palestine as to peoples; and in Iran and Syria as to governments,” Sayyed Nasrallah said. “This resistant minority has perceived its strength and refused to surrender,” his eminence emphasized, adding that it doesn’t fear death but rather wants to live with honor and dignity.

While calling on the nation to assume its responsibilities over what’s happening in Palestine, Sayyed Nasrallah said that the entire Arab Nation has to thank Syria and Iran for standing by the resistance and to emulate these two nations. “It is unacceptable to doubt Iran's intentions that aim at intervening to support the Palestinian cause,” his eminence stressed.

Hezbollah Secretary General pointed to the change in the Israeli “dialect” following his latest speech believed to change the strategic balances in the conflict with the Israeli enemy. Addressing Israeli President Shimon Peres who declared Israel's failure and that it pulled out from Lebanon for good, his eminence said: “You will never return to Lebanon.”
"You have exited Lebanon once and for all, and I tell you, you will never be able to come back to Lebanon."

“When Israel was confronted with a stern and unyielding rhetoric, it was forced to change its tone and to seek pacification on its northern border,” Sayyed Nasrallah said, noting that even Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is now saying that his country is unwilling to launch a war against any state. “They noticed that there is a new atmosphere in the region.”

His eminence noted that what has been said in the Martyr Leaders’ Day was only a part, stressing that the Resistance has yet many surprises that will be uncovered at the appropriate time. “The Israelis know very well that everything we have said can be achieved,” his eminence added. "When we threaten Israel, we mean what we say, and Israel knows quite well that every word said would not have been iterated had there not been absolute conviction in the possibility of implementing and realizing it. What we have said is only part, not all, as we harbor surprises."

The Resistance leader, meanwhile, said that the choice of war has major and dangerous implications and it is not limited to Israel. “The resistance is strong because it is embraced by its people, the thing that frightens Israel,” his eminence pointed out.

Sayyed Nasrallah expected that the upcoming stage would be marked by a sort of “pressure” on the Lebanese government but hailed the latter’s stance as well as President Michel Sleiman’s one as excellent. In the same context, Sayyed Nasrallah rejected claims that the call to re-vivify the national dialogue roundtable came in harmony with American pressures.

Hezbollah Secretary General said the Damascus summit is believed to be a sufficient response to the American messages to Syria. “All claims about a divergence between Syria, Iran and the Resistance in Lebanon are mere lies,” Sayyed Nasrallah asserted, calling for an official defiance in the face of the Israeli pressures and threats.

According to Sayyed Nasrallah, the Israeli enemy will continue to collect data from Lebanon. His eminence recalled that the Israeli enemy has never suspended its security war against Lebanon through its agents, emphasizing that the Israeli is seeking through this form of war to collect data on the Resistance’s arms by quantity and quality. “If we prevent the Israeli enemy of reaching the data he’s seeking to collect, we delay the war,” Sayyed Nasrallah said, adding that one of the main characteristics of the Resistance is its “secrecy.”

His eminence turned into the issue of agents and spying networks operating in Lebanon. Addressing the agents and all those who can be induced, Sayyed Nasrallah said: “What you are doing is not only a crime against some people but a treason of a whole nation.” His eminence called on them to take lessons from past experiences.

Sayyed Nasrallah renewed his call to execute the death sentences against those who have betrayed their nation. Yet, his eminence called on those agents to return to their nation and ask for God’s pardon, warning that more agents would be uncovered in the upcoming stage. "I have said before, and I repeat today, yes to the death sentence for these spies. They should hang, and not just rot in jail for life."

Hezbollah Secretary General concluded his speech by warning the Lebanese government against sharing telecommunications information with the United States, saying any such move would be tantamount to collaborating with the Israeli enemy. “We hope that no party is involved with the US embassy,” Sayyed Nasrallah said. “Otherwise, we will need a determinant stance.”

"This is dangerous as it is a violation of Lebanon's sovereignty, but its real danger lies elsewhere," his eminence said. "Because of the strategic relationship and unity between the United States and Israel ... any information gathered through such requests, like spy rings, reaches Israelis. In other words, it is giving Israel information by proxy on a silver platter, and we hope there are no Lebanese citizens collaborating with the US embassy in the matter," his eminence added.

Aww he's worried they'll find his rat hole!! :lol:

Nasrallah needs to go back to Syria, he doesn't belong in Lebanon.

^^ I think he will perfer Iran can he live with Ahmadinejad and be roomies.

and that is why i left this thread (:

Aww he's worried they'll find his rat hole!! :lol:

Why cant I ever find a bit of respect out of you. Does every little thing require a wise comment from you, Melkat, oh wise one?

edit

Nasrallah needs to go back to Syria, he doesn't belong in Lebanon.

Oh funny, the one who doesn't belong in Lebanon is you! How dare you? He has been defending Lebanon for years, if it wasn’t for him, the shitty Lebanon we have today which nobody seems to appreciate would still be under Israeli occupation. Appreciate the fact that he led the largest resistance against the brutal Israeli occupation. He even lost his son through this path! What have you lost? Not a hair off of your scalp! You are no one to judge who belongs and who doesn’t in Lebanon!

and that is why i left this thread (:

This nonsense gets to a certain point where you just have to shut them up!

I like reading melkarts wise comments.

I like reading melkarts wise comments.

I don't doubt it at all. Wise people like to read wise comments.

This nonsense gets to a certain point where you just have to shut them up!

If you think this is bad you should of seen a few weeks ago. Their sentences are just a bit of ignorance coupled with a insult, i have learned that wasting energy replying to them just makes you angrier, and it is like burning time. And this is a architecture forum anyway.

I don't doubt it at all. Wise people like to read wise comments.

Hehe sharsha7ta. That just made my day. :)

Oh funny, the one who doesn't belong in Lebanon is you! How dare you? He has been defending Lebanon for years, if it wasn’t for him, the shitty Lebanon we have today which nobody seems to appreciate would still be under Israeli occupation. Appreciate the fact that he led the largest resistance against the brutal Israeli occupation. He even lost his son through this path! What have you lost? Not a hair off of your scalp! You are no one to judge who belongs and who doesn’t in Lebanon!

everyone has a right to an opinion no one is untouchable ALI! :)

OH Jader you are so treacherous!

Okay there is something I do not understand. How come Syria, with the Golan Heights occupied (which is bigger and more economically viable then Shebba), does not have some sort of resistance militia? And how come they get to go into negotiations with Israel and Lebanon doesn't? Even now Syria and Israel are getting ready to go back to the negotiating table. How come the Lebanese state is robbed of this right? How come Hariri can't talk to the Israelis BUT Assad does? Why does Lebanon always have to pay the price for resisting Israel but Syria doesn't?

What happens if Syria makes a peace deal and gets the Golan back? Shouldn't Lebanon get to do the same???

^^ If only everyone else thought as logically as you do!

The reality is that Hizballah is very weak diplomatically and can simply be cut off from its providors at any time. They are a militia under the command of Iran and Syria.

Jader, Ali can you guys answer the above questions please, Since you guys claim to be the logical experts in this form, and you seem to make alot of sence! :)

Okay there is something I do not understand. How come Syria, with the Golan Heights occupied (which is bigger and more economically viable then Shebba), does not have some sort of resistance militia? And how come they get to go into negotiations with Israel and Lebanon doesn't? Even now Syria and Israel are getting ready to go back to the negotiating table. How come the Lebanese state is robbed of this right? How come Hariri can't talk to the Israelis BUT Assad does? Why does Lebanon always have to pay the price for resisting Israel but Syria doesn't?

What happens if Syria makes a peace deal and gets the Golan back? Shouldn't Lebanon get to do the same???


Hariri himself has said, and I quote "Lebanon will be the last Arab country to create peace with Israeli.”

The majority of the population, which has come to truly comprehend the brutality of the Israeli occupation, refuses to have any means of communication with the Israeli enemy.

Hariri also said that direct dialogue with Israel is not something that the majority of Lebanese want to do.

Syria has not experienced the same things that Lebanese went throught, thus the circumstances differ for the different situations.

Kormalak ya Melkart ;) Because although I never recall making such allegations of being a "logical expert," I could still appreciate a good typo. It's sense, not sence. Bala Maskhara ba2a >:o

^^ If only everyone else thought as logically as you do!

The reality is that Hizballah is very weak diplomatically and can simply be cut off from its providors at any time. They are a militia under the command of Iran and Syria.


Why do you see every post as an oppurtunity to denounce Hezbollah? Why does Hezbollah being cut off from its providors have anything to do with Lebanon not having direct dialogue with Israel?

Why can't you accept that this is something the Nation wants, and that just because you don't agree to it, doesn't mean that Hezbollah is the head of the "problem," and what a sad excuse of a problem this is. This isn't an issue, this is an honor.

Hariri himself has said, and I quote "Lebanon will be the last Arab country to create peace with Israeli.”

The majority of the population, which has come to truly comprehend the brutality of the Israeli occupation, refuses to have any means of communication with the Israeli enemy.

Hariri also said that direct dialogue with Israel is not something that the majority of Lebanese want to do.

Syria has not experienced the same things that Lebanese went throught, thus the circumstances differ for the different situations.

Kormalak ya Melkart ;) Because although I never recall making such allegations of being a "logical expert," I could still appreciate a good typo. It's sense, not sence. Bala Maskhara ba2a >:o

I don't think it was Hariri who said that, I think it was Saniora during his term.
Anyways heads of state shouldn't use that language of ultimatums, no one knows what might change and they'd end trying to save face. [Politicians should really start taking Jumblat as an example]

As for "the majority of the population" Ali:
1- There hasn't been any official census in the Lebanese replublic since 1932, so what is "majority".
2- There hasn't been any kind of memorandum to truly ask the Lebanese population how they see Israel.
3- What about the millions of Lebanese who are living outside Lebanon? You should know! Shouldn't they have a say in Lebanon's foreign politics?

I would be more careful next time before throwing generalizations like that.

Also, you think that people in the Golan heights are not passing through occupation? I know for a fact that people there are not allowed (by the Syrian government) to have a Syrian passport, whilst they keep refusing to accept Israel's offer to neutralize them as Israeli citizens.
And what about the casualties that Syria sustained by it's war with Israel: 1984, 1967, 1973?

I don't think it was Hariri who said that, I think it was Saniora during his term.
Anyways heads of state shouldn't use that language of ultimatums, no one knows what might change and they'd end trying to save face. [Politicians should really start taking Jumblat as an example]

As for "the majority of the population" Ali:
1- There hasn't been any official census in the Lebanese replublic since 1932, so what is "majority".
2- There hasn't been any kind of memorandum to truly ask the Lebanese population how they see Israel.
3- What about the millions of Lebanese who are living outside Lebanon? You should know! Shouldn't they have a say in Lebanon's foreign politics?

I would be more careful next time before throwing generalizations like that.

Also, you think that people in the Golan heights are not passing through occupation? I know for a fact that people there are not allowed (by the Syrian government) to have a Syrian passport, whilst they keep refusing to accept Israel's offer to neutralize them as Israeli citizens.
And what about the casualties that Syria sustained by it's war with Israel: 1984, 1967, 1973?

Hariri said this last year, I am positive. Nobody else puts that much wax on their hair :lol:

Okay there is something I do not understand. How come Syria, with the Golan Heights occupied (which is bigger and more economically viable then Shebba), does not have some sort of resistance militia? And how come they get to go into negotiations with Israel and Lebanon doesn't? Even now Syria and Israel are getting ready to go back to the negotiating table. How come the Lebanese state is robbed of this right? How come Hariri can't talk to the Israelis BUT Assad does? Why does Lebanon always have to pay the price for resisting Israel but Syria doesn't?

What happens if Syria makes a peace deal and gets the Golan back? Shouldn't Lebanon get to do the same???

That would make too much sense, that is why it wont happen in Lebanon. We will always be in this perpetual (meaning NEVER ending) conflict under our foreign masters. Its sad that we have no real sovereignty and cannot make decisions without consultations (more like orders actually) from other countries.
Its not in the best interest of Hez, Syria and Iran to ever make amends with Israel. What would be the point of Hez existing after a peace agreement? Their entire reason of being would disappear. Same with Syria and Iran, but there it would be their dictatorial or theocracy collapsing as a result.

Until Hez integrates then I cannot see them as an entity that serves all of Lebanons interest.
If you think about it though, why would they integrate? They are the most powerful force in Lebanon with their own militia with their own agenda. They are slowly permeating through all branches of government and soon (if not already) will have tremendous influence. Exactly where I would want to be if I were the leader of such a group.
Once again Lebanese people are being taken on a ride that they did not ask for but will certainly have to pay for with their lives, homes and livelihood.

Its not that I am anti Hez specifically, I am just 100% for Lebanese sovereignty, which btw also means free from Saudi or US influence.

But sammee as "someone in this forum says" you are being a shitty Lebanese by not supporting "Hisb". Don't you see that Sayed Hassan Nasrallah and Hisb alone can liberate Lebanon from our greatest enemy, Israel! (Ofcourse America would prolly follow in the #2 spot, and than by Europe cause they are debaucherous I mean look at them!) as matter of fact there are too many enemies to count. Only Iran, our sisterly nation Syria, and hec why not even North Korea are our friends. So you see why don't you join the borg and be one with the borg! and see the light of reason! Maybe you can also develop a lisp, this way you'll sound just like Sayed Hassan Nasrallah.

Hey Mr. Melkart, you're not making any "sence" -_-

ali shu bada3k; khaleion hal thread sha3r wu ta3rter

Kilon akhra bin ba3d ma3andon sense, bas bi ba3szo kilmen, wu na7na3 bin iktob she essay. ma3andon aurgument wu mafeon back up ill kilmen bei iktob.


Please stop insulting other members. Just because you say it in Arabic doesnt mean it's ok.

http://www.thenational.ae/images/the_national_logo.gif

Hizbollah’s quandary: most Lebanese don’t want a war
Michael Young
March 03. 2010

During the Syrian-Iranian summit in Damascus last week, Hassan Nasrallah, Hizbollah’s secretary general, was invited to join the Syrian and Iranian presidents Bashar al Assad and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on the rostrum. You would have been forgiven for thinking that Mr Nasrallah was Lebanon’s head of state at that gathering of worthies.

Ultimately, though, Mr Ahmadinejad’s statements told the real story. When he declared that the peoples of the Middle East, including the Lebanese, would stand up against Israel in the event of a war, it was clear that Mr Nasrallah had been invited as the honoured sacrificial lamb who would confirm that promise. Hizbollah will be in the front trenches of any conflict between Israel and Iran, and somehow in this scenario very little attention has been paid to the majority of Lebanese who have no desire to serve as cannon fodder on Tehran’s behalf.

There has been much talk about a war in the Middle East. Where it would start and how it would end is a matter of debate, but the fears conceal a more complex reality about how a conflagration might affect Hizbollah. The party has turned on the bravado, with one parliamentarian declaring this week that “Lebanon has become more powerful now while the Israelis have become more vulnerable”. Hizbollah has reportedly acquired anti-aircraft missiles from Syria, and Mr Nasrallah has vowed to bomb Tel Aviv if Israel bombs Beirut. However, there is more to victory than that.

The consensus is that Hizbollah does not relish a new war. As a military organisation it thrives on tension, yet Hizbollah also has a constituency whose qualms cannot be ignored. If one community was most frightened by Mr Ahmadinejad’s comments, it was Lebanon’s Shiites, who would bear the brunt of an Israeli attack. During the 2006 conflict, one million Shiites were displaced for a month and made to live in public facilities, schools, and parks. Hizbollah called that cataclysm a “divine victory”, mainly to absorb any Shiite backlash — a move facilitated by the rapid and massive injection of Iranian funds to compensate the victims.

That game, however, cannot be played every few years. Israel is aware that its strongest suit in a future war is devastation. Israeli officials have declared time and again that in its next clash with Lebanon it would target not just Hizbollah, but also the Lebanese state. This means that Lebanon’s infrastructure (which Israel partially spared in 2006) would be fair game. The country’s economy could be ravaged as the Israelis would almost certainly hit the electricity and water grids, road networks, ports, and much more – not to mention undermine the economic confidence that Lebanon relies upon to remain afloat financially.

Hizbollah’s ability to deter Israel remains limited, although the party suggests that it has managed to impose a balance of terror. Its missiles and anti-aircraft weapons might have some impact on Israeli actions, but any full-scale escalation, because of its magnitude and unpredictability, would create outcomes with more political than strictly military consequences. An extended conflict would create pressures on Hizbollah domestically, both among Shiites and other Lebanese whose livelihoods would be a hostage to the party’s whims. It might also risk a wider war with Syria, inviting urgent foreign mediation to find a solution.

Hizbollah and Israel have framed their mutual threats in terms of self-defence. Barring an error, both sides will avoid coming to blows today. Hizbollah knows that the violence of an Israeli response might weaken its standing at home while forcing it to waste a valuable military deterrent primarily serving Iran. The Israeli priority is to undermine the Iranian nuclear programme, so that a Lebanon war would only detract from this. But what happens if Israel bombs Iran because international efforts have failed to prevent Tehran from building a nuclear weapon?

Hizbollah would doubtless be called upon to retaliate against Israel, but things would not be quite as simple as that. The party, unable to persuade Shiites that they must suffer for Iran, would have to goad Israel into striking first, making its own response look like a defensive measure. This it could do, let’s say, by allowing rockets to be fired across the border, perhaps by pro-Syrian Palestinian groups. Israel, seeing an opening to damage the party’s political influence in Lebanon, might readily take the bait and engage in massive retaliation.

It’s anyone’s guess what the upshot of such an upheaval might be, as an infinite number of variables will intervene to frustrate everyone’s calculations. However, less discussed is another situation in which Israel and Hizbollah might square off. If Iran succeeds in developing a nuclear weapon in the face of international opposition, Israel might decide that Lebanon takes default precedence and try to eliminate the Hizbollah irritant to its north. How such an operation would be provoked is another matter. The paradox is that a Lebanese conflict seems more probable once Israel determines it can do nothing against Iran.

In all cases, it is intangibles that will determine who wins and loses, or whether stalemate prevails. Hizbollah’s strength is also its weakness: the party’s popular support among Shiites is a weapon it cannot abuse. Hizbollah’s ability to intimidate its Lebanese partners would also diminish in the shadow of a destructive Israeli war inflicted on all. The Israelis sense this, which is why the spectre of war will never be far away from Lebanon, even as Israel’s leaders, too, must determine how their population will react if caught in an intense missile war.

What makes this so difficult to stomach is that the shots are being called thousands of miles away, by an Iranian regime that has surrounded itself with a bodyguard of crises to protect its interests. The Lebanese can, legitimately, lament the fact that they will have a front-row seat, courtesy of Mr Ahmadinejad and a pliant Mr Nasrallah.

Michael Young is opinion editor of the Daily Star newspaper in Beirut

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100304/OPINION/703039944/1080

ali shu bada3k; khaleion hal thread sha3r wu ta3rter

Kilon akhra bin ba3d ma3andon sense, bas bi ba3szo kilmen, wu na7na3 bin iktob she essay. ma3andon aurgument wu mafeon back up ill kilmen bei iktob.

http://www.thenational.ae/images/the_national_logo.gif

Hizbollah’s quandary: most Lebanese don’t want a war
Michael Young
March 03. 2010

During the Syrian-Iranian summit in Damascus last week, Hassan Nasrallah, Hizbollah’s secretary general, was invited to join the Syrian and Iranian presidents Bashar al Assad and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on the rostrum. You would have been forgiven for thinking that Mr Nasrallah was Lebanon’s head of state at that gathering of worthies.

Ultimately, though, Mr Ahmadinejad’s statements told the real story. When he declared that the peoples of the Middle East, including the Lebanese, would stand up against Israel in the event of a war, it was clear that Mr Nasrallah had been invited as the honoured sacrificial lamb who would confirm that promise. Hizbollah will be in the front trenches of any conflict between Israel and Iran, and somehow in this scenario very little attention has been paid to the majority of Lebanese who have no desire to serve as cannon fodder on Tehran’s behalf.

There has been much talk about a war in the Middle East. Where it would start and how it would end is a matter of debate, but the fears conceal a more complex reality about how a conflagration might affect Hizbollah. The party has turned on the bravado, with one parliamentarian declaring this week that “Lebanon has become more powerful now while the Israelis have become more vulnerable”. Hizbollah has reportedly acquired anti-aircraft missiles from Syria, and Mr Nasrallah has vowed to bomb Tel Aviv if Israel bombs Beirut. However, there is more to victory than that.

The consensus is that Hizbollah does not relish a new war. As a military organisation it thrives on tension, yet Hizbollah also has a constituency whose qualms cannot be ignored. If one community was most frightened by Mr Ahmadinejad’s comments, it was Lebanon’s Shiites, who would bear the brunt of an Israeli attack. During the 2006 conflict, one million Shiites were displaced for a month and made to live in public facilities, schools, and parks. Hizbollah called that cataclysm a “divine victory”, mainly to absorb any Shiite backlash — a move facilitated by the rapid and massive injection of Iranian funds to compensate the victims.

That game, however, cannot be played every few years. Israel is aware that its strongest suit in a future war is devastation. Israeli officials have declared time and again that in its next clash with Lebanon it would target not just Hizbollah, but also the Lebanese state. This means that Lebanon’s infrastructure (which Israel partially spared in 2006) would be fair game. The country’s economy could be ravaged as the Israelis would almost certainly hit the electricity and water grids, road networks, ports, and much more – not to mention undermine the economic confidence that Lebanon relies upon to remain afloat financially.

Hizbollah’s ability to deter Israel remains limited, although the party suggests that it has managed to impose a balance of terror. Its missiles and anti-aircraft weapons might have some impact on Israeli actions, but any full-scale escalation, because of its magnitude and unpredictability, would create outcomes with more political than strictly military consequences. An extended conflict would create pressures on Hizbollah domestically, both among Shiites and other Lebanese whose livelihoods would be a hostage to the party’s whims. It might also risk a wider war with Syria, inviting urgent foreign mediation to find a solution.

Hizbollah and Israel have framed their mutual threats in terms of self-defence. Barring an error, both sides will avoid coming to blows today. Hizbollah knows that the violence of an Israeli response might weaken its standing at home while forcing it to waste a valuable military deterrent primarily serving Iran. The Israeli priority is to undermine the Iranian nuclear programme, so that a Lebanon war would only detract from this. But what happens if Israel bombs Iran because international efforts have failed to prevent Tehran from building a nuclear weapon?

Hizbollah would doubtless be called upon to retaliate against Israel, but things would not be quite as simple as that. The party, unable to persuade Shiites that they must suffer for Iran, would have to goad Israel into striking first, making its own response look like a defensive measure. This it could do, let’s say, by allowing rockets to be fired across the border, perhaps by pro-Syrian Palestinian groups. Israel, seeing an opening to damage the party’s political influence in Lebanon, might readily take the bait and engage in massive retaliation.

It’s anyone’s guess what the upshot of such an upheaval might be, as an infinite number of variables will intervene to frustrate everyone’s calculations. However, less discussed is another situation in which Israel and Hizbollah might square off. If Iran succeeds in developing a nuclear weapon in the face of international opposition, Israel might decide that Lebanon takes default precedence and try to eliminate the Hizbollah irritant to its north. How such an operation would be provoked is another matter. The paradox is that a Lebanese conflict seems more probable once Israel determines it can do nothing against Iran.

In all cases, it is intangibles that will determine who wins and loses, or whether stalemate prevails. Hizbollah’s strength is also its weakness: the party’s popular support among Shiites is a weapon it cannot abuse. Hizbollah’s ability to intimidate its Lebanese partners would also diminish in the shadow of a destructive Israeli war inflicted on all. The Israelis sense this, which is why the spectre of war will never be far away from Lebanon, even as Israel’s leaders, too, must determine how their population will react if caught in an intense missile war.

What makes this so difficult to stomach is that the shots are being called thousands of miles away, by an Iranian regime that has surrounded itself with a bodyguard of crises to protect its interests. The Lebanese can, legitimately, lament the fact that they will have a front-row seat, courtesy of Mr Ahmadinejad and a pliant Mr Nasrallah.

Michael Young is opinion editor of the Daily Star newspaper in Beirut

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100304/OPINION/703039944/1080

Could Michael Young say it any better than that? 100% correct in my opinion. We are being used as pawns on a chess board by players hundreds or thousands of miles away. The majority of Lebanese DO NOT want war. We should be working on preventing this instead of fueling an already explosive situation.

^^ma baddak tel3ab ba2a? domage...

Hey Mr. Melkart, you're not making any "sence" -_-

well I guess you are not a Star Trek fan! :nuts:

well I guess you are not a Star Trek fan! :nuts:


By the patterns you show, I don't think you either.

By the patterns you show, I don't think you either.

Oh why is that? I love Star Trek!

Please stop insulting other members. Just because you say it in Arabic doesnt mean it's ok.

I am not insulting anyone I am elaborating on what you say in this thread; not the actual forumer. There is no need for your drama.:bash:

I have a question

Did Nasrallah, I mean the hizb one, cooperatively build Baalbek with the romans?

^^
LMAO

US, Israel Worry Over Hizbullah Possession of Rockets Capable of Bringing Down F-16s

U.S. and Israeli concerns mounted after Syria reportedly supplied Hizbullah with rockets capable of brining down F-16 warplanes.
Chief of Research at the Israeli army has uncovered that Syria recently provided Hizbullah with surface-to-air missiles type GLA 9K338 which can bring down reconnaissance planes, helicopter gunships and advanced F-16 fighter jets, which form the backbone of the Israeli air force.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&9654CCE15A3D4E07C22576DD0020B440

I wish the Lebanese Army could confiscate these weapons from Hezbollah and put them in its own arsenal.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&9654CCE15A3D4E07C22576DD0020B440

I wish the Lebanese Army could confiscate these weapons from Hezbollah and put them in its own arsenal.

I think it is a no brainer that Hezbollah now has acquired such weapons.
Why in the world would Hezbollah be so confident to threaten Israel to such an extent, knowing the caliber of their army.

Why would the Army want to confiscate these weapons? That would be stealing. Besides, the Army and Hezbollah are on the same sides.

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&9654CCE15A3D4E07C22576DD0020B440

I wish the Lebanese Army could confiscate these weapons from Hezbollah and put them in its own arsenal.

You are absolutely correct. Its usually self destructive to have a state within a state. In NO way should a militia group be more powerful the government unless they were overthrowing a tyrannical one. And as bad as the Lebanese government is at times, you cannot say that they are tyrannical.

I fear for Lebanon on two fronts related to our overly powerful militia:
- a short term prospect of war with Israel which Hez almost seems want (and which Israel would surely take part in if provoked)
-a long term prospect of internal strife if Hez becomes more powerful and starts implementing their own agenda.
The Lebanese ppl need to make it crystal clear that they do not want either scenario, I just hope they can do it before its too late.

Sorry for being so negative, but I think we are at a critical point of time and something needs to change.
I do think Hez has something to offer to Lebanese politics, but they should be treated on the same level (ie-with no weapons) as every other group.

^^ So you guys want division in Lebanon; and further do not want Lebanon to be capable of shooting down planes. Listen to your hero:

“A war would destroy Lebanon, but internal divisions would annihilate it,” Prime Minister Saad Hariri told reporters on Thursday. He reiterated that Lebanon is at the heart of the Arab-Israeli conflict, and that its people will remain united in light of the Jewish State’s recurrent threats.

The national dialogue session will address a defense strategy, said Hariri, adding that Lebanon is in constant communication with foreign parties to ensure diplomatic action against the ongoing Israeli threats.

Hariri touched on some parties’ call to include an Arab League representative in the national dialogue committee, saying the decision goes back to President Michel Sleiman.

Hariri also said that Hezbollah Secretary General Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah’s meeting with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in Damascus is his business. “The president and the PM represent Lebanon, whose cabinet decides its foreign policy,” he said, referring to reports that Nasrallah’s actions are on behalf of the Lebanese state.

-NOW Lebanon

I think it is a no brainer that Hezbollah now has acquired such weapons.
Why in the world would Hezbollah be so confident to threaten Israel to such an extent, knowing the caliber of their army.

Why would the Army want to confiscate these weapons? That would be stealing. Besides, the Army and Hezbollah are on the same sides.

The army has no choice. i wouldn't say they are on the smae side. Bullying doesn't count as affection!