^^ So you guys want division in Lebanon; and further do not want Lebanon to be capable of shooting down planes. Listen to your hero:

“A war would destroy Lebanon, but internal divisions would annihilate it,” Prime Minister Saad Hariri told reporters on Thursday. He reiterated that Lebanon is at the heart of the Arab-Israeli conflict, and that its people will remain united in light of the Jewish State’s recurrent threats.

The national dialogue session will address a defense strategy, said Hariri, adding that Lebanon is in constant communication with foreign parties to ensure diplomatic action against the ongoing Israeli threats.

Hariri touched on some parties’ call to include an Arab League representative in the national dialogue committee, saying the decision goes back to President Michel Sleiman.

Hariri also said that Hezbollah Secretary General Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah’s meeting with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in Damascus is his business. “The president and the PM represent Lebanon, whose cabinet decides its foreign policy,” he said, referring to reports that Nasrallah’s actions are on behalf of the Lebanese state.

-NOW Lebanon

Unlike you just because one of our politicians says one thing, doesn't mean we follow! That's why you are the sheep!!! :) Our leaders as sad as this might sound get bullied by Hisb and are pressured to give into their demands. This is why we want hisb disarmed, so true democracy can take it's course.
P.S: If disagreeing with you is division, Than why don't you agree with us!

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&9654CCE15A3D4E07C22576DD0020B440

I wish the Lebanese Army could confiscate these weapons from Hezbollah and put them in its own arsenal.

hmm, nice article, and still shows the inefficiency of the LAF compared to 7izbullah, why can't the LAF also buy those kind of weapons and aircrafts so that we don't need 7izbullah as much as we need them right now?

Or maybe they can't because america doesn't want to see the LAF to be able to defend themselves against the american friend: israel. So then 7izbullah would be the only choise for defense if other countries are blocking the LAF of being supplied with sufficient weapons.

Btw, about the article about 7ariri saying things about nasrallah, I'm quite surprised how he seems to have become friends with 7izbullah and is willing to fight together and protect lebanon together. It seems like since he wanted to incorporate hezbollah into the nation he's defending them.

^^ It's called being a great leader: swallowing your pride and sacrificing your true beliefs for the sake of the Nation.

That's a good case, nice to see this.

@Jader,

Do you realize that the only times when Israel and Lebanon have had armed conflicts (or Israeli invasions inside Lebanon) has been when Lebanon lacked a strong central government and army? Before 1975, Lebanon and Israel didn't have armed conflicts (with the exception of the war in 1948, in which Lebanon was pretty much a non-player). What's been the common demoninator in every armed conflict between Lebanon and Israel? That some armed non-governmental group inside Lebanon took advantage of the county's power vacuum and decided on its own (without official government approval) to launch an armed conflict with Israel. Even today, a power vacuum exists inside Lebanon.

Do you really think that if the Lebanese army had the same weapons and financial backing that Hizbullah currently has, that it couldn't defend the country? Do you really have such little faith in your own government and more broadly, in your own people? Lebanon could have a strong, central army if there existed a consesus and a will to develop one.

And if Hizbullah and the LAF share the same goal of protecting Lebanese sovereignty, then why shouldn't you and every other Hizbullah supporter throw their weight behind forming a strong LAF? Nothing undermines a country's sovereignty more than having a factional militias, especially militias that are more powerful then the central government's army. The problem that we have in Israel (and that you appear to have in Lebanon) is that on many political issues, we speak in several voices at the same time: outside of Israel, people hear us talking about peace on the one hand, while giving some extremist settlers carte blanche to cause problems for ordinary Palestinian civilians. This gives off the impression that in Israel we lack unity and also a strong, effective government. In Lebanon, the problem isn't entirely different. But at least we have a single army inside Israel and which is controlled by a democratically elected government, that includes Arabs and non-Jews. In Lebanon there are several armies, each one capable of bringing war to Lebanon, without consideration to the wishes of other Lebanese people.

Given this, Hizbullah's "resistance" actually undermines its own stated goal of defending Lebanon's sovereignty. The only logical reason for you to continue to support Hizbullah's "resistance" is because you believe that Hizbullah and its supporters should have a militaristic advantage over all other Lebanese people who don't share yours and Hizbullah's views/opinions. I would argue that not only is this a threat to Lebanon's stability and security (vis-a-vis internal as well as external conflicts with Israel), but it is a threat to the very essence of what it means to be Lebanese- the only truely plurocratic country in the Middle East outside of Israel.

^^

:applause:

Couldn't have said it better myself.

@Jader,

Do you realize that the only times when Israel and Lebanon have had armed conflicts (or Israeli invasions inside Lebanon) has been when Lebanon lacked a strong central government and army? Before 1975, Lebanon and Israel didn't have armed conflicts (with the exception of the war in 1948, in which Lebanon was pretty much a non-player). What's been the common demoninator in every armed conflict between Lebanon and Israel? That some armed non-governmental group inside Lebanon took advantage of the county's power vacuum and decided on its own (without official government approval) to launch an armed conflict with Israel. Even today, a power vacuum exists inside Lebanon.

Do you really think that if the Lebanese army had the same weapons and financial backing that Hizbullah currently has, that it couldn't defend the country? Do you really have such little faith in your own government and more broadly, in your own people? Lebanon could have a strong, central army if there existed a consesus and a will to develop one.

And if Hizbullah and the LAF share the same goal of protecting Lebanese sovereignty, then why shouldn't you and every other Hizbullah supporter throw their weight behind forming a strong LAF? Nothing undermines a country's sovereignty more than having a factional militias, especially militias that are more powerful then the central government's army. The problem that we have in Israel (and that you appear to have in Lebanon) is that on many political issues, we speak in several voices at the same time: outside of Israel, people hear us talking about peace on the one hand, while giving some extremist settlers carte blanche to cause problems for ordinary Palestinian civilians. This gives off the impression that in Israel we lack unity and also a strong, effective government. In Lebanon, the problem isn't entirely different. But at least we have a single army inside Israel and which is controlled by a democratically elected government, that includes Arabs and non-Jews. In Lebanon there are several armies, each one capable of bringing war to Lebanon, without consideration to the wishes of other Lebanese people.

Given this, Hizbullah's "resistance" actually undermines its own stated goal of defending Lebanon's sovereignty. The only logical reason for you to continue to support Hizbullah's "resistance" is because you believe that Hizbullah and its supporters should have a militaristic advantage over all other Lebanese people who don't share yours and Hizbullah's views/opinions. I would argue that not only is this a threat to Lebanon's stability and security (vis-a-vis internal as well as external conflicts with Israel), but it is a threat to the very essence of what it means to be Lebanese- the only truely plurocratic country in the Middle East outside of Israel.

Exactly right. This is why I am not trusting of Hez and their claim to only serve Lebanon's interests. As I said earlier, its is very dangerous to have a militia stronger than the government, this will only result in turmoil and an end to our democratic and open institutions.

Why would the Army want to confiscate these weapons?

Because the Lebanese Army should be the only force allowed to possess such weapons and the only force responsible for defending the country.

That would be stealing.

No it wouldn't. It would be enforcing the rule of law. If the Lebanese Army confiscated cannabis from drug smugglers, would you call it stealing?

hmm, nice article, and still shows the inefficiency of the LAF compared to 7izbullah, why can't the LAF also buy those kind of weapons and aircrafts so that we don't need 7izbullah as much as we need them right now?

Or maybe they can't because america doesn't want to see the LAF to be able to defend themselves against the american friend: israel. So then 7izbullah would be the only choise for defense if other countries are blocking the LAF of being supplied with sufficient weapons.

Btw, about the article about 7ariri saying things about nasrallah, I'm quite surprised how he seems to have become friends with 7izbullah and is willing to fight together and protect lebanon together. It seems like since he wanted to incorporate hezbollah into the nation he's defending them.

The Lebanese Army has desperately been trying to acquire anti-aircraft missiles to confront Israel's aerial violations, but no country is willing to provide them. The very basic aid that countries have been providing the Lebanese Army has come under strong criticism and opposition from Israel. Imagine what would happen if anti-aircraft missiles were offered.

The only way the Lebanese Army could acquire such weaponry is through the black market. That's why I would love to see the Lebanese Army confiscate these advanced shoulder held anti-aircraft missiles from Hezbollah. They've confiscated equipment and weaponry from drug smugglers in the past and incorporated them in their arsenal. The Lebanese Navy has a yacht which was confiscated from drug smugglers.

Before 1975, Lebanon and Israel didn't have armed conflicts (with the exception of the war in 1948, in which Lebanon was pretty much a non-player).

This is not correct. During the 1967 Six Day War, Israeli fighter planes trespassed into Lebanese airspace and one was shot down by a Lebanese Air Force Hawker Hunter. Israel responded by sending more fighters into Lebanon and shot down a Lebanese Air Force Hawker Hunter allegedly in retaliation for Lebanon defending itself. This is despite Lebanon not participating in the 1967 Six Day War.

Israel used to periodically violate Lebanon's airspace throughout the 60's, although not as much as it does now.

Also, let's not forget when Israeli commandos landed on the night of December 28, 1968 in Beirut Airport and blew up 13 airliners belonging to MEA, TMA, and LIA.

@jader

And one last comment to add.

I don't think that anyone in Israel would have anything against Lebanon having a strong central army (i.e., one that is just as strong as Hizbullah, if not stronger). I know it's not our business to tell you or anyone else (i.e., non-Israelis) what they should do. But I would have much more faith that a strong central army would behave in a much more pragmatic way than some ideology-driven militia like Hizbullah. Governments have responsibilities to their constituents as well as accountability; Hizbullah has neither, and therefore, has fewer mechanisms in place to keep it from launching another deadly war with Israel.

Lebanon can't change Israel; just as Israel can't change Lebanon. But Lebanese can change Lebanon and therefore, the dynamics with Israel. This, in my opinion, is the most effective and easiest resistance: dismantling the conditions that lead to war. Israel is also a very dysfunctional and complicated country, and so sometimes it gives off the appearance of speaking out of both ends of its mouth- we talk about peace, but then we build settlements. I think that among most Israelis (80-90%) there is a genuine desire for peace for peace with all of our neighbours. In spite of how militarized Israeli society is (I would argue that this is out of necessity), I don't think that people here are more militant or bellicose than are people in most other countries. Just as you will resist if you are attacked, so we will do the same if we are attacked. But there isn't a desire to go on the offensive and to invade someone else's country/territory. Of course, this seems hypocritical since, as I just mentioned, we're building settlements in the Palestinian territories. This side of Israel is due to the flawed structure of Israel's parliamentary/voting system in which fringe political parties/movements can wield disproportionate amount of political influence (i.e., the people who zealously support the settlements are a minority). This is something that Israel will have to address internally. So no matter how many wars Hizbullah or the Palestinians fight with us, nothing is going to solve the Israeli side of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict until there is a major overhaul of how power is shared among the political parties in Israel. But concerning Lebanon, I can assure you that every single major political party in Israel supports peace with Lebanon (or at least, a cessation of conflict), including Yisrael Beyteinu (Lieberman's party).

To sum up my post:
-most Israelis don't care to fight Palestinians or Lebanese
-Hizbullah's resistance against Israel is ineffective for two reasons: i) because Israel's "policies" are largely shaped by its dysfunctional political system (and no amount of katyushas can change this) and ii) because every Hamas and Hizbullah attack on Israel raises the profile of right-wing politicians like Lieberman and Netanyahu, who, in the event of another war, would screw Lebanon far worse than Olmert did in 2006; and iii) because most Israelis don't see Lebanon as an enemy or have any desire to occupy your land
-the best way to "resist" against Israel is to not provoke it (i.e., with kidnappings, rocket attacks, etc)

r planes trespassed into Lebanese airspace and one was shot down by a Lebanese Air Force Hawker Hunter. Israel responded by sending more fighters into Lebanon and shot down a Lebanese Air Force Hawker Hunter allegedly in retaliation for Lebanon defending itself. This is despite Lebanon not participating in the 1967 Six Day War.

Israel used to periodically violate Lebanon's airspace throughout the 60's, although not as much as it does now.

Also, let's not forget when Israeli commandos landed on the night of December 28, 1968 in Beirut Airport and blew up 13 airliners belonging to MEA, TMA, and LIA.

I stand corrected. But there were no major conflicts/wars/invasions before 1975. Also, most of these events that you are mentioning were in retaliation to PLO attacks out of southern Lebanon, which had some degree of a power vacuum at the time (especially given that the Lebanese army was never strong enough to deal with the PLO guerillas on its own).

Because the Lebanese Army should be the only force allowed to possess such weapons and the only force responsible for defending the country.



No it wouldn't. It would be enforcing the rule of law. If the Lebanese Army confiscated cannabis from drug smugglers, would you call it stealing?



The Lebanese Army has desperately been trying to acquire anti-aircraft missiles to confront Israel's aerial violations, but no country is willing to provide them. The very basic aid that countries have been providing the Lebanese Army has come under strong criticism and opposition from Israel. Imagine what would happen if anti-aircraft missiles were offered.

The only way the Lebanese Army could acquire such weaponry is through the black market. That's why I would love to see the Lebanese Army confiscate these advanced shoulder held anti-aircraft missiles from Hezbollah. They've confiscated equipment and weaponry from drug smugglers in the past and incorporated them in their arsenal. The Lebanese Navy has a yacht which was confiscated from drug smugglers.



This is not correct. During the 1967 Six Day War, Israeli fighter planes trespassed into Lebanese airspace and one was shot down by a Lebanese Air Force Hawker Hunter. Israel responded by sending more fighters into Lebanon and shot down a Lebanese Air Force Hawker Hunter allegedly in retaliation for Lebanon defending itself. This is despite Lebanon not participating in the 1967 Six Day War.

Israel used to periodically violate Lebanon's airspace throughout the 60's, although not as much as it does now.

Also, let's not forget when Israeli commandos landed on the night of December 28, 1968 in Beirut Airport and blew up 13 airliners belonging to MEA, TMA, and LIA.


So this is exactly what I thought that was going on. They promise a lot but do nothing because they are friends with Israel. The international community is playing a game with them. Maybe they should buy weapons via Syria, or let Hezbollah buy them for them.

But as long as they can't upgrade their army it's clear that Hezbollah at the moment is the only one that's a bit capable of defending Lebanon.

So this is exactly what I thought that was going on. They promise a lot but do nothing because they are friends with Israel. The international community is playing a game with them. Maybe they should buy weapons via Syria, or let Hezbollah buy them for them.

But as long as they can't upgrade their army it's clear that Hezbollah at the moment is the only one that's a bit capable of defending Lebanon.

Why can't Hizbullah turn over its weapons to the Lebanese army?

basically Syrian workers who tend to be smelly and not even close to be clean ...not mentioning if its a girl sitting next to him ...they will act cool !

^^ It's called being a great leader: swallowing your pride and sacrificing your true beliefs for the sake of the Nation.


No, it's called being a March 4 leader ;)

Because we know for damn good that whenever it is about March 8, you cry Hezbollah=proxy. But when it is a March 14 leader it is called "true beliefs," "honesty," "sharaf," "patriotism," etc. Wa mat illi la2.

Why can't Hizbullah turn over its weapons to the Lebanese army?

ah, so you say that as long as israel and the USA keep intimidating Lebanon to buy good weapons Hezbollah should be allowed because they are the only possibility for Lebanon to get defense weapons? ;) So they should act as a salesman?

Why can't Hizbullah turn over its weapons to the Lebanese army?

Because it is a proxy for Iran who doesn't want Lebanon to prosper and enjoys engaging in wars and being an aggressor. Oh, and because Bashar al asad and Ahmad Inijad don't like to shower, oh and they stink!...Alot...:bash:

That's the answer you want to hear, because I know for a damn fact you don't want to hear the truth. You just enjoy assuring to your self that the majority of the forumers on this thread are in conformity with your opinions, thus going into a state of satisfaction and approval.

The same goes here for every damn forumer on this site, because had you the guts to ask these questions somewhere else, you wouldn't be capable of even refuting to anything, instead you clump all on one website, making Lebanon look like if the majority of it is March 14, and that 20% are March 8, when in fact that is not the case.

ah, so you say that as long as israel and the USA keep intimidating Lebanon to buy good weapons Hezbollah should be allowed because they are the only possibility for Lebanon to get defense weapons? ;) So they should act as a salesman?

Noo...actually he's literally saying why can't Hezbollah give up their weapons like little bi*ches, become fools infront of America and Israel, despose of its entire Military wing, etc etc.

Note: Hezbollah's military wing is more advanced in the training of its combatants, not just with their rockets, contrary to popular belief. Moreover, their faith in their religion, makes them even more potent soldiers. They didn't keep the Israeli's out of Bint Ijbeil with their rockets you know ;)

Moreover, one of Hezbollah's biggest advantages over its enemy is secracy...stealth

This way, Hezbollah is always 3 steps ahead...The mufaja2at al Kumbra series ;) which Sayyed Hassan gives to Israeli's keeps them on their feet every single year. :lol: Israel is still shaking, expecting retribution from Hezbollah over the Assassination of Hajj Imad Mughniyah. :lol:

Once these stuff goes to the Jeish, they will be showed off in the Military parades. Moreover, we all know that Hezbollah is better at stealth than our own military, even if you guys want to poke fun at this fact, it is truth. It is just so much more organized, and doesn't have a simple answer.

"Hezbollah is a proxy of Iran," just doesn't cut it...

ah, so you say that as long as israel and the USA keep intimidating Lebanon to buy good weapons Hezbollah should be allowed because they are the only possibility for Lebanon to get defense weapons? ;) So they should act as a salesman?

Well the only reason Israel tries to block weapons sales to Lebanon is because it doesn't want those weapons to trickle down into Hizbullah's possession. I think if there could be certainty that the LAF would have those weapons and NOT hizbullah, then there wouldn't be as much of a problem as Israel's concerned.

The army has no choice. i wouldn't say they are on the smae side. Bullying doesn't count as affection!

Oh yes of course, and your proof is???

During the war, the Jeish were helping Hezbollah fighters. If they were going up a Hill, the Jeish was their to make sure they didn't fall down (example ya3ne).

Hezbollah is always respecting the Jeish, even in Sayyed Hassan's speeches, he shows the most utmost respect for them, I don't understand why they would feel bullied. If anything, they should have atleast the Jeish's respect.

...um as much as I would hate to stay here and debate, I have a Psychology Exam....till never again, hopefully....

Well the only reason Israel tries to block weapons sales to Lebanon is because it doesn't want those weapons to trickle down into Hizbullah's possession. I think if there could be certainty that the LAF would have those weapons and NOT hizbullah, then there wouldn't be as much of a problem as Israel's concerned.

Bull SHIT...

When has Hezbollah EVER interfered in the weapons sales of the country???

You can't just make false assumptions. There is a certainty, that is, Hezbollah doesn't NEED them. If Hezbollah wanted, they would get Tanks, but tanks are Israel's #1 weakness, it exposes them. Moreover, if they wanted, they would get planes, but where in the hell are they going to store them? Dude, it just wont work out...

Hezbollah is always the one telling the Army to go and search for new and more effective weapons, not so that they could take the weapons away from them.

But nonetheless take it this way, America and Israel don't want Lebanon to be strong. Proof:

America claims Hezbollah has to Disarm. One of the easiest ways to facilitate such a thing would be by better arming the Army. Nonetheless we still get light infantry weapons which wouldn't be able to put up with a large crowd of angry Palestinians throwing rocks.

But when the Lebanese army goes to Russia to get weapons, America becomes infuriated, and "worried." They are "scared" that these weapons will get into the hands of Hezbollah. Ask yourself, when has this ever happened? Like seriously, isn't it obvious that they don't want you to be strong? But yet you live in a state of denial and say, "but no, they love us."

Bull SHIT...

When has Hezbollah EVER interfered in the weapons sales of the country???

You can't just make false assumptions. There is a certainty, that is, Hezbollah doesn't NEED them. If Hezbollah wanted, they would get Tanks, but tanks are Israel's #1 weakness, it exposes them. Moreover, if they wanted, they would get planes, but where in the hell are they going to store them? Dude, it just wont work out...

Hezbollah is always the one telling the Army to go and search for new and more effective weapons, not so that they could take the weapons away from them.

But nonetheless take it this way, America and Israel don't want Lebanon to be strong. Proof:

America claims Hezbollah has to Disarm. One of the easiest ways to facilitate such a thing would be by better arming the Army. Nonetheless we still get light infantry weapons which wouldn't be able to put up with a large crowd of angry Palestinians throwing rocks.

But when the Lebanese army goes to Russia to get weapons, America becomes infuriated, and "worried." They are "scared" that these weapons will get into the hands of Hezbollah. Ask yourself, when has this ever happened? Like seriously, isn't it obvious that they don't want you to be strong? But yet you live in a state of denial and say, "but no, they love us."

What I don't understand is this, why doesn't Hizbullah just hand over its weapons to Lebanon's army? I mean, as far as you are concerned as a Lebanese, does it make a difference who has the weapons since both the LAF and Hizbullah act as Lebanon's resistance against Israel? From Israel's side, the LAF and Hizbullah are not equal. What does this mean? The LAF would have to act with far more discretion if it wanted to provoke a war with Israel then Hizbullah does. That is to say, the LAF wouldn't necessarily launch rockets at Nahariya and Kiryat Shmona for no reason; whereas Hizbullah would. Now why should you care what Israel, a foreign country, thinks? Because Israel is much more trigger happy when it knows that Hizbullah has 40,000 rockets pointed at it and wouldn't have a problem attacking Israel; whereas it expects the Lebanese army to behave with much more caution. As I said, the most effective resistance is to dismantle or to minimize the conditions that lead to war in the first place.

Well the only reason Israel tries to block weapons sales to Lebanon is because it doesn't want those weapons to trickle down into Hizbullah's possession. I think if there could be certainty that the LAF would have those weapons and NOT hizbullah, then there wouldn't be as much of a problem as Israel's concerned.

Exactly. It's not beyond belief that Hizballah, SSNP, Fatah Islam, ETC terrorists may attack the Lebanese Army and confiscate their weapons. We need to strengthen not just the arsenal of the LAF, but first their protection from internal factions.

...

As I said, the most effective resistance is to dismantle or to minimize the conditions that lead to war in the first place.


This is the key that they fail to understand. Their "resistance" was directly responsible for triggering the 2006 war.

No, it's called being a March 14 leader ;)

Because we know for damn good that whenever it is about March 8, you cry Hezbollah=proxy. But when it is a March 14 leader it is called "true beliefs," "honesty," "sharaf," "patriotism," etc. Wa mat illi la2.

When were M8 leaders ever willing to compromise? They bully until they get what they want. M14 understand the consequences of a divided nation and are willing to put their agenda on the back-burner for the sake of peace and dialogue. You think Jumblatt really wants to go to Syria and meet with the guy who murdered his father? NO - but he must for the sake of the country and security/unity of the Druze community.

alisaleh's Avatar

Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yedid View Post
Why can't Hizbullah turn over its weapons to the Lebanese army?
Because it is a proxy for Iran who doesn't want Lebanon to prosper and enjoys engaging in wars and being an aggressor. Oh, and because Bashar al asad and Ahmad Inijad don't like to shower, oh and they stink!...Alot...

That's the answer you want to hear, because I know for a damn fact you don't want to hear the truth. You just enjoy assuring to your self that the majority of the forumers on this thread are in conformity with your opinions, thus going into a state of satisfaction and approval.

The same goes here for every damn forumer on this site, because had you the guts to ask these questions somewhere else, you wouldn't be capable of even refuting to anything, instead you clump all on one website, making Lebanon look like if the majority of it is March 14, and that 20% are March 8, when in fact that is not the case.

Exactly man. That is why I left. I do not enjoy holding arguments with 12 extreme forumers, who have no despair, see no facts, and have no civility, and cannot hold a civil argument. I advise you do the same. 3am bit da3ye watak.

I agree alasileh, as long as israel keeps obstructing lebanon from fighting israel they have no right to say that lebanon has to stop Hezbollah.

If my country was attacked and we weren't defended by our own government or our army was to weak we would also organise a independend resistance group.

I'd like to see Lebanon get a military like this:

sEpi4KkEE0M

MI 24 Hinds and KA helicopters are awesome.

But untill that time we need these guys:

LcLoQW1ddMI

But as it seems they are going to get these babies :D

UobN1G1_4dM

DAT-MEImJ9o

and cool if they could also aquire these (syria would have them, would love it to see them in action), perfect tank killers!

ETtEWjRpOrs

Maybe also because the Syrian Army was a long time in Lebanon LAF didn't got the chance to develop well or had a need to develop?

Exactly man. That is why I left. I do not enjoy holding arguments with 12 extreme forumers, who have no despair, see no facts, and have no civility, and cannot hold a civil argument. I advise you do the same. 3am bit da3ye watak.

Jader I hardly think we are extreme, I certainly dont think you guys are extreme. This is the way Lebanon has always been, people often have very different opinions on both sides of the spectrum. But considering there are more than just a few on either side you cannot simply say that one side is more extreme than another.
In terms of civility, some of your comments in the past could be considered rather uncivil, you are being a bit hypocritical in that point.
I think this forum is a great way to get everyones opinion out, and yes it does get a bit harsh at times but we are all passionate about our country. And like it or not, I also think its great that Israelis share their opinion here too, this can never happen in many circles in Lebanon and it's always important to talk to the "enemy."

...

The same goes here for every damn forumer on this site, because had you the guts to ask these questions somewhere else, you wouldn't be capable of even refuting to anything, instead you clump all on one website, making Lebanon look like if the majority of it is March 14, and that 20% are March 8, when in fact that is not the case.

Did you forget the election results already? I think it was very clear who the majority is.

Did you forget the election results already? I think it was very clear who the majority is.

Ya 7abeebi, het ta na3teek ba3si…awal shaghle

We have the popular vote ……2ou haidil shagli ma3roofe, mat 2illi 2a2 wala ba2
tene shagle,

Jumblatt just has to declare that he is with march 8, and we will have the majority ;) and this will happen...he already practically is one

I mean it is funny because he gets out of March 14, and gets closer to march 8, you tell me what that sounds like he's trying to do? stay neutral...lmfao

look at the way he was acting before the elections

Sorry to rain on your parade, but if you really think that Jumblatt is acting out of full pride, and he will return to March14 when the time is right…then you are mistaken
LOL…Jumblatt says “Sayyed” Hassan Nasrallah… he says “al muqawame”, not Terrorist group like you….he has dinners with the sayyed Hassan nasrallah, and you cannot tell me it is out of politics, it is out of complete friendship that the two have 4 eachother.

When were M8 leaders ever willing to compromise? They bully until they get what they want. M14 understand the consequences of a divided nation and are willing to put their agenda on the back-burner for the sake of peace and dialogue. You think Jumblatt really wants to go to Syria and meet with the guy who murdered his father? NO - but he must for the sake of the country and security/unity of the Druze community.

:lol::lol::lol: you're a joke

Ya 7abeebi, het ta na3teek ba3si…awal shaghle

We have the popular vote ……2ou haidil shagli ma3roofe, mat 2illi 2a2 wala ba2
tene shagle,

Jumblatt just has to declare that he is with march 8, and we will have the majority ;) and this will happen...he already practically is one

I mean it is funny because he gets out of March 14, and gets closer to march 8, you tell me what that sounds like he's trying to do? stay neutral...lmfao

look at the way he was acting before the elections

Sorry to rain on your parade, but if you really think that Jumblatt is acting out of full pride, and he will return to March14 when the time is right…then you are mistaken
LOL…Jumblatt says “Sayyed” Hassan Nasrallah… he says “al muqawame”, not Terrorist group like you….he has dinners with the sayyed Hassan nasrallah, and you cannot tell me it is out of politics, it is out of complete friendship that the two have 4 eachother.

you could keep jumblatt we don t want him back.. one more clown added to the bunch you already have between hassan, nabih and michel all you re missing is walid w btekmal :lol:

Jumblatt just has to declare that he is with march 8, and we will have the majority ;) and this will happen...he already practically is one


actually no !!!
cuz if jounblat joined 8march u will not get his parliamentary bloc !!!
Marwan Hmede will never join 8 March, and the same applies for the christian MP's in the jounblat bloc !!!

so that leaves u with 5 out of 11, and i hardly think that all of the five will join 8March.... I cannot imagine Akram Shayeb shouting: "Labayk ya Nasralla" :lol:

As a representative of the druze community in lebanon... let me be the first one to say that in no way does jumblatt represent us.
Let him go to march 8th, it doesn't make any difference to standings... popular vote amongst the druze is with march 14

I honestly cant think of any druze i know that are pro march 8.. more specifically hezbollah. And why would they, if I recall we were targeted not too long ago....

But ali please stop writing so much crap. Case in point, is that if we had the choice to have no resistance or to have one, our people would choose NO resistance. A resistance equals tensions, arms and conflict... and how the hell can you stand by that.

And as for us stupid forumers making it seem like there are more march 14 supporters than 8, well I am happy that is the case. I hate to generalize, but all march 8 obsessive compulsive supporters I know here in canada have been freaks, like "i enjoy guns so much I take pictures with the, and I enjoy going into huge rallies and fight jews at any chance I get"... they actually tarnish the lebanese image in canada. Normally people think of lebanese ppl as the joie du vie ppl (those who know us at least), but wtf,,, they meet these random lebs that are always angry and so politically charged.. lek 7il 3anna!

I have a question

Did Nasrallah, I mean the hizb one, cooperatively build Baalbek with the romans?

wu shou.. noone knows their ancient history?

It is a legitimate question, its amazing the man can do everything..and build temples. smallah smallah

^^
smallah 3leik
7aje tekol khara 3al sobi7 ...allah ykhaleekon ban me forever, this website is like a curse


Bas bshoof beiruti byekol khara, 2oul be2yeen byirkabo 3a dahro (kintish baddi 2oul kilmi tenye ya3ne)....

^^ma7doum inta.. bit bous immek bi 7al tim?

ya 7abeebi mat khaleeha twasekh ma3i aktar mima hiye mwasakhil 2an

sa7ten 3ala 2loubkon, badkon teklo khara, kiloo, bas mat ta3moone 2ou be2el loubninye ma3kon

^^7akyak 7ake wled chere3, bala marba 3al ekher...

Did you forget the election results already? I think it was very clear who the majority is.

You can't relie on those results, because Lebanon has a very strange voting system. Hezbollah already got the maximum amount of seats and can't get more because of the confesionalist voting system. Maybe if there wouldn't be a system with restrictions to the maximum amount of shi3i MP's etc. march 8 would be bigger.

Second of all, even though some people I spoke in northern lebanon (near Trablous) were very anti-Hezbollah and pro-musta2bal they still also saw the resistance (meaning hezbollah) as the only effective military defense against israel. So even among some 14 march people there is deep respect for il-muqawama.

^^7akyak 7ake wled chere3, bala marba 3al ekher...


aah...ya3ne mitlak...

Ya 7abeebi, het ta na3teek ba3si…awal shaghle

We have the popular vote ……2ou haidil shagli ma3roofe, mat 2illi 2a2 wala ba2
tene shagle,

Jumblatt just has to declare that he is with march 8, and we will have the majority ;) and this will happen...he already practically is one

I mean it is funny because he gets out of March 14, and gets closer to march 8, you tell me what that sounds like he's trying to do? stay neutral...lmfao

look at the way he was acting before the elections

Sorry to rain on your parade, but if you really think that Jumblatt is acting out of full pride, and he will return to March14 when the time is right…then you are mistaken
LOL…Jumblatt says “Sayyed” Hassan Nasrallah… he says “al muqawame”, not Terrorist group like you….he has dinners with the sayyed Hassan nasrallah, and you cannot tell me it is out of politics, it is out of complete friendship that the two have 4 eachother.

so,Jumblatt was insignificant when he was with March 14,and now he's something big because u "think" he's March 8 now? lol,funny and so childish of u.

oh,can i say that if Hizbullah joined March 8,he will lose the next elections in Aley and Chouf ? lol,7aram,and he'll join the list of the March 8 losers :lol:

now,he knows that,and that's why he hasn't joined March 8 ,i don't want to go in details,but i can actually prove that in numbers ;)

oh,didn't u hear the news,that Omar Karami said he's out of March 8? no Sunni cover to your "opposition" now ?

wait till next elections,and when expats vote,u will be lucky if Hizbullah got two seats in the south ;)

alisaleh represents his hizb anyway,don't act like u guys are surprised,inno,COME ON!!! :D

:lurker:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_vp4PkcC18Tw/S4CkgehiXLI/AAAAAAAAAEc/hydIjfr0NpE/s400/gif_03.png

alisaleh represents his hizb anyway,don't act like u guys are surprised,inno,COME ON!!! :D

your a joke

so,Jumblatt was insignificant when he was with March 14,and now he's something big because u "think" he's March 8 now? lol,funny and so childish of u.

oh,can i say that if Hizbullah joined March 8,he will lose the next elections in Aley and Chouf ? lol,7aram,and he'll join the list of the March 8 losers :lol:

now,he knows that,and that's why he hasn't joined March 8 ,i don't want to go in details,but i can actually prove that in numbers ;)

oh,didn't u hear the news,that Omar Karami said he's out of March 8? no Sunni cover to your "opposition" now ?

wait till next elections,and when expats vote,u will be lucky if Hizbullah got two seats in the south ;)


let me guess...mark my words -_-
lek 7il 3anni sameye, yes i represent hezbollah

roar, heed my wrath

^^How old are you again?

your a joke

wow,lol,talking about the facts that u and jader keep talking about.BRILLIANT!!!

let me guess...mark my words -_-
lek 7il 3anni sameye, yes i represent hezbollah

roar, heed my wrath

did u mark my words when i said we r going to win the elections? i don't think so,well,then mark these,you will be nothing but history after the next parliamentary elections,well,unless you of course provoke another war to get some voters support.
MARK MY WORDS :P

did u mark my words when i said we r going to win the elections? i don't think so,well,then mark these,you will be nothing but history after the next parliamentary elections,well,unless you of course provoke another war to get some voters support.
MARK MY WORDS :P

lol khawaftne...

:lurker:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_vp4PkcC18Tw/S4CkgehiXLI/AAAAAAAAAEc/hydIjfr0NpE/s400/gif_03.png

LMAO OMG!! I think this is the most important and most profound thing anyone has posted in this thread. Actually if this thread can be summed up in one picture its that.

Rabih, you are AMAZING MAN lmao!!

^^ LOL very funny !!

Ya 7abeebi, het ta na3teek ba3si…awal shaghle

We have the popular vote ……2ou haidil shagli ma3roofe, mat 2illi 2a2 wala ba2
tene shagle,

Jumblatt just has to declare that he is with march 8, and we will have the majority ;) and this will happen...he already practically is one

I mean it is funny because he gets out of March 14, and gets closer to march 8, you tell me what that sounds like he's trying to do? stay neutral...lmfao

look at the way he was acting before the elections

Sorry to rain on your parade, but if you really think that Jumblatt is acting out of full pride, and he will return to March14 when the time is right…then you are mistaken
LOL…Jumblatt says “Sayyed” Hassan Nasrallah… he says “al muqawame”, not Terrorist group like you….he has dinners with the sayyed Hassan nasrallah, and you cannot tell me it is out of politics, it is out of complete friendship that the two have 4 eachother.


First, I would just like to let everyone know that alisaleh received 3 separate infractions for his comments today.

Regarding Jumblatt, I can confidently state that he has no intentions of ever joining M8. The only reason he withdrew from M14 was to demonstrate Doha unity and his desire for ending the M14-M8 division.

...

But ali please stop writing so much crap. Case in point, is that if we had the choice to have no resistance or to have one, our people would choose NO resistance. A resistance equals tensions, arms and conflict... and how the hell can you stand by that.

...




Thank you, I think this pretty much says it all.

You can't relie on those results, because Lebanon has a very strange voting system. Hezbollah already got the maximum amount of seats and can't get more because of the confesionalist voting system. Maybe if there wouldn't be a system with restrictions to the maximum amount of shi3i MP's etc. march 8 would be bigger.

Second of all, even though some people I spoke in northern lebanon (near Trablous) were very anti-Hezbollah and pro-musta2bal they still also saw the resistance (meaning hezbollah) as the only effective military defense against israel. So even among some 14 march people there is deep respect for il-muqawama.


It has nothing to do with sect. Each sect has opposing sides. And I was talking about March8, not just Hizballah.

First, I would just like to let everyone know that alisaleh received 3 separate infractions for his comments today.

Regarding Jumblatt, I can confidently state that he has no intentions of ever joining M8. The only reason he withdrew from M14 was to demonstrate Doha unity and his desire for ending the M14-M8 division.

That's a slap on the wrist!!! :ohno:

:lurker:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_vp4PkcC18Tw/S4CkgehiXLI/AAAAAAAAAEc/hydIjfr0NpE/s400/gif_03.png

:rofl: should be attached to this thread's tags

That's a slap on the wrist!!! :ohno:

I agree...
Like imagine Zidane was only given a yellow card... probably France would have won and most likely the July war would have never happened.

That's a slap on the wrist!!! :ohno:

You are right. After reviewing his history, I just added a 10 point custom infraction. He now has a total of 14 infractions and 63 points! He's been brigged in the past and always comes back and resorts to the same crap. Banning means nothing, since he will just return with a new name...

You are right. After reviewing his history, I just added a 10 point custom infraction. He now has a total of 14 infractions and 63 points! He's been brigged in the past and always comes back and resorts to the same crap. Banning means nothing, since he will just return with a new name...

Reviewing your history, you’re a biased moderator, 7il 3an ijri ba2a, inta, melkart, 2ou hassoun kamen

Like seriously bro I am asking to get banned…it wont affect my life

Reviewing your history, you’re a biased moderator, 7il 3an ijri ba2a, inta, melkart, 2ou hassoun kamen

Like seriously bro I am asking to get banned…it wont affect my life

You can easily just avoid this forum and never post here again. There's no need to actually be banned unless of course you enjoy the attention and infamy that you think may come from it.

Reviewing your history, you’re a biased moderator, 7il 3an ijri ba2a, inta, melkart, 2ou hassoun kamen

Like seriously bro I am asking to get banned…it wont affect my life

ma3nata bit 7ibni? :pet: I feel special :)

^^ walaw ;)

Question. If people go about firing guns and rockets into Israel, how is Israel going to stop them? That's exactly why Israel invaded Lebanon - because Lebanon didn't seem to be willing or able to stop people from shooting guns and rockets into Israel. What would happen if someone started firing into Lebanon from across the border? (Anybody, not just the Israeli military... could be Turks or Syrians, too...)

The point is, Israel's not going to attack anybody if it doesn't fear anybody. I would very much like peace to happen between Israel, Palestine, and Lebanon. But we need a framework in which stuck disputes don't result in violence. That means keeping the hotheads from being, well, hotheaded. (By "hotheads" I mean Hizbullah, the Jewish settlers, Hamas, and some of the Palestinian teenagers, as well as perhaps some members of the Israeli military.)

No other Arab state would put up with something like Hezb. In Syria when the Muslim Brotherhood began acting outside state authority and "liberated" Hama, you know what Hafez Al Assad did?? He BOMBED them and killed thousands until there was no Muslime Brotherhood left. Or when the PLO and PFLP fighters stopped listening to the Jordanian Monarchy King Hussein launched a war against them (literally driving tanks into Amman) and drove them all out. And Syria still has land occupied by Israel, so why is Lebanon made to keep this militia?

How did they come to existence? Yes, because of the invasion of israel and the occupation of the south. And still today they are obstructing lebanon from getting a real army and flying in lebanese airspace. And let's not forget that israel is highly unpredictable, sometimes they suddenly attack just like how their state was established or during the bombardments on ghaza in 2006.

Hezbollah is one of the few organisations in the middle-east that's able to stop israeli forces from invading their own country. Arab armies are, even when well equipped (see the gulf war), trained very badly compared to western style armies.

Reviewing your history, you’re a biased moderator, 7il 3an ijri ba2a, inta, melkart, 2ou hassoun kamen

Like seriously bro I am asking to get banned…it wont affect my life

In no context is it fair for a active, participating moderator on a political thread, to give infractions to a member with opposing views. It is very unjust; if you participate you should act like a leader, either be a debater, or the police of the debates.

Question. If people go about firing guns and rockets into Israel, how is Israel going to stop them? That's exactly why Israel invaded Lebanon - because Lebanon didn't seem to be willing or able to stop people from shooting guns and rockets into Israel. What would happen if someone started firing into Lebanon from across the border? (Anybody, not just the Israeli military... could be Turks or Syrians, too...)

The point is, Israel's not going to attack anybody if it doesn't fear anybody. I would very much like peace to happen between Israel, Palestine, and Lebanon. But we need a framework in which stuck disputes don't result in violence. That means keeping the hotheads from being, well, hotheaded. (By "hotheads" I mean Hizbullah, the Jewish settlers, Hamas, and some of the Palestinian teenagers, as well as perhaps some members of the Israeli military.)

No other Arab state would put up with something like Hezb. In Syria when the Muslim Brotherhood began acting outside state authority and "liberated" Hama, you know what Hafez Al Assad did?? He BOMBED them and killed thousands until there was no Muslime Brotherhood left. Or when the PLO and PFLP fighters stopped listening to the Jordanian Monarchy King Hussein launched a war against them (literally driving tanks into Amman) and drove them all out. And Syria still has land occupied by Israel, so why is Lebanon made to keep this militia?

ya hababete i have already successfully addressed these silly attempts of questions before you guys decided to join the party. Read, read carefully.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=404863&page=196

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=404863&page=207

Guys, unless your discussion will lead to the solution of these many problems, I think you guys need to CALM DOWN and go for a walk.

How did they come to existence? Yes, because of the invasion of israel and the occupation of the south. And still today they are obstructing lebanon from getting a real army and flying in lebanese airspace. And let's not forget that israel is highly unpredictable, sometimes they suddenly attack just like how their state was established or during the bombardments on ghaza in 2006.

Hezbollah is one of the few organisations in the middle-east that's able to stop israeli forces from invading their own country. Arab armies are, even when well equipped (see the gulf war), trained very badly compared to western style armies.

AND HOW ARE THEY OBSTRUCTING lEBANON FROM GETTING A REAL ARMY?

In no context is it fair for a active, participating moderator on a political thread, to give infractions to a member with opposing views. It is very unjust; if you participate you should act like a leader, either be a debater, or the police of the debates.





ya hababete i have already successfully addressed these silly attempts of questions before you guys decided to join the party. Read, read carefully.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=404863&page=196

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=404863&page=207

SUCCESSFUL!!! :rofl:

In no context is it fair for a active, participating moderator on a political thread, to give infractions to a member with opposing views. It is very unjust; if you participate you should act like a leader, either be a debater, or the police of the debates.




Actually, if what you were accusing me of were true, wouldn’t you have been banned a long time ago? I never give infractions out because I disagree with a view point. I only enforce the forum rules, which alisaleh knowingly violated on multiple occasions. Every individual has the right to express their point of view. I am not a "debate moderator" that keeps score and announces a winner. I am a forum moderator, meaning I enforce the rules, provide thread maintenance, and keep order. There is absolutely nothing wrong with me having a point of view and engaging in friendly, civil, educational, debate.

AND HOW ARE THEY OBSTRUCTING lEBANON FROM GETTING A REAL ARMY?

Maybe you should start reading the last few pages instead of only your own phalangist propaganda? :lol:

Maybe you should start reading the last few pages instead of only your own phalangist propaganda? :lol:

Remind me again why you're so eager for another war between Israel and Hizbullah (Lebanon)? It's not like you stand to lose your life, your family or your home from such a conflict.

Maybe you should start reading the last few pages instead of only your own phalangist propaganda? :lol:

what makes you think I am a phalangist? also you did not answer my question.

What have I created :-/ lol calm down you guys

OOh..it's my birthday lol MARCH 8...tmene azar ;)

Khalas, I swear I won't talk politics from now on...it angers me

enter at your own risk..... someone might explode of anger...

What have I created :-/ lol calm down you guys

OOh..it's my birthday lol MARCH 8...tmene azar ;)

Khalas, I swear I won't talk politics from now on...it angers me

As Jayme said, enter at your own risk. ;) Happy birthday, if it is your birthday.

it is

I guess it means we have to be nice. Happy bday!

It's 1:01 now, I guess you can be mean again :)

Garbage Trucks Dump Straight Into the Sea in Lebanon As Hizbollah Takes Hold
Submitted by Maurice Picow on March 9, 2010

http://www.greenprophet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sewage-beirut-coast-image11.jpg
Raw sewage seeping off Beirut coastline, and dump trucks heading straight for the sea, is the “catch of the day” in Lebanon.

Marine pollution in Lebanon is becoming so severe these days that local fishermen are catching more garbage in their nets than fish. An article on thenews site Inter Press Service said that Lebanon’s 6,500 fishermen are having with the increasing problem of coastal and marine pollution being caused by large amounts of garbage and other forms of pollution finding its way into the sea. Political ambivalence is to blame.

Abdallah Mokad, one of these Lebanese trying to make his living from the sea, said sadly: “We are hauling in more garbage than fish these days. Much of the waste that gets entangled in our nets comes from the Costa Brava dumping ground, which leads out into the sea. This is illegal but waste truck owners enjoy the protection of politicians.’’

Political ambivalence, which prevents any strong action being taken by the government against those violating the laws that are on the books against dumping of garbage into the sea has resulted in the present situation, picked up by Green Prophet when we reported the large garbage mound off the coast of Sidon.

Today, the Sidon garbage mound is now so large that ships in the vicinity can “smell it before you can see it.”

The IPS article notes that Lebanese fishermen used to bring in daily catches of as much as 50 kg of fish such as Sultan Brahim, a local species of snapper, plus several kgs of shrimp.

Now, the catches are much smaller, with only a few kgs of fish and less than a kg of shrimp, among the shreds of plastic material and other garbage that gets caught in the nets. Besides garbage, oil spills, raw sewage, and various forms of industrial wastes is making this part of the Eastern Mediterranean increasingly devoid of fish and other marine life, including birds.

Lebanon’s sectarian governmental mixture, that is becoming increasingly influenced by both Syria and Hizbollah, doesn’t seem to have the power or desire to do much to clean up the country’s growing pollution problem.

Although lawmakers met last May in order to establish “environmental police, courts, a prosecutor’s office … and trained environmental prosecutors,” little has been done concerning these as the country now enters March, 2010.

Besides the pollution problems caused by human sewage and garbage, damage from oil spills, most particularly as a result of Israeli air raids during the 34 day war in 2006, has resulted in substantial environmental damage from as much as 45,000 metric tons of oil seeping into the sea.

http://www.greenprophet.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/oil-spill-lebanon-coastt.jpg
Damage to Lebanon caused by the Israel war with the Hezbollah in Summer, 2006.

Another, much more recent oil spill occurred when the Panamanian ship Danny F II sank last December 19 in stormy waters about 12 miles off the coast of Tripoli.To make matters worse, the ship was carrying 10, 224 sheep and 17,932 head of cattle, whose carcasses are feared to have attracted sharks to the area, further unbalancing the normal marine life in the area.

Twenty-six crew members are also still unaccounted for and presumed to have become shark food, along with the livestock.

Ali Darwich, environmental and agricultural specialist and general secretary of the non-government environmental organization Green Line said there are 8 major dumping sites in Lebanon, with the one near Tyre, Saida, being the most notable.

“Some two million Lebanese people live along the sea shore and the household and industrial wastes they produce are spilling directly into the water. One has to keep in mind that only one treatment plant exists in Lebanon, and it is responsible only for removing large particles from the sewage system and not important pollutants, such as heavy metal”.

Israel, whose Mediterranean coastline is also becoming more and more polluted (especially in the Haifa Bay area), Syria above and Turkey above that, has no doubt already received a portion of Lebanon’s coastal pollution. The question is how much? And how can activists from all countries join together to stop this atrocity?

http://www.greenprophet.com/2010/03/09/18307/lebanon-marine-pollution/

There is something very wrong with the mentality of a lot of Lebanese and other arabs. They just throw everything everywhere like if it will just disapear in the nature while ruining the country that way which is a desastre also for tourism.

The should start an education programm and a special minister for milieu and envirenment and start big cleaning campaigns and well organised garbage collection.

what makes you think I am a phalangist? also you did not answer my question.

If you are able to read you will find your answer on the last 3 pages. Maybe you should also read some articles on defense orders that would be delivered by certain countries but were suddenly canceled or take a lot of time because of Israeli obstruction. They don't want a strong LAF.

@alisaleh: alf mabroek! killi siné winté tayyib.

@alisaleh: alf mabroek! killi siné winté tayyib.


7abeebi, allah ykhaleeli yek , allah yi7fazak inshallah

There is something very wrong with the mentality of a lot of Lebanese and other arabs. They just throw everything everywhere like if it will just disapear in the nature while ruining the country that way which is a desastre also for tourism.

The should start an education programm and a special minister for milieu and envirenment and start big cleaning campaigns and well organised garbage collection.



If you are able to read you will find your answer on the last 3 pages. Maybe you should also read some articles on defense orders that would be delivered by certain countries but were suddenly canceled or take a lot of time because of Israeli obstruction. They don't want a strong LAF.

@alisaleh: alf mabroek! killi siné winté tayyib.

Yes I am able to read thanks for your concern! Regarding the Israeli influence in preventing Lebanon from arming is bullshit. They don't want the LAF to posess certain weapons in order to prevent them from ending up in Hisballah's hands (since Hisballah is in control). Either way we don't need to be a super power we just need to enforce the law in our own country and control our borders. meaning we don't need military jets. The Lebanese army has asked the Russians to provide them with helicopters instead of the migs since they can't afford to maintain them. so here you have it we don;t even want such weapons! So why do you support Hisballah again? I mean what exactly do you have to gain? Is it justice that you are looking for? cause you are looking in the wrong places for that.

and one more thing exactly how are the phalangists spreading propaganda they don't even own a television station? The LBC which used to be the mouthpiece of the LF now is in control of Al walid . So with all do respect think before you speak!

Doesn't sound very March8 to me...

On the resistance, the Druze leader reiterated that Hizbullah's arms should be gradually integrated into the state "taking into consideration the appropriate circumstances."

Source: naharnet.com

Yes I am able to read thanks for your concern! Regarding the Israeli influence in preventing Lebanon from arming is bullshit. They don't want the LAF to posess certain weapons in order to prevent them from ending up in Hisballah's hands (since Hisballah is in control). Either way we don't need to be a super power we just need to enforce the law in our own country and control our borders. meaning we don't need military jets. The Lebanese army has asked the Russians to provide them with helicopters instead of the migs since they can't afford to maintain them. so here you have it we don;t even want such weapons! So why do you support Hisballah again? I mean what exactly do you have to gain? Is it justice that you are looking for? cause you are looking in the wrong places for that.

and one more thing exactly how are the phalangists spreading propaganda they don't even own a television station? The LBC which used to be the mouthpiece of the LF now is in control of Al walid . So with all do respect think before you speak!

No, they don't want the LAF to have sofisticated weapons because they don't want that the Lebanese Army can step in the place of Hezbollah once Hezbollah is dismantled so the LAF will be effective in defending against Israel, that's why they don't want them to have good weapons.

airplanes can be very usefull when being attacked by an agressive neighbour or when an airplane is hijacked and you need to communicate and to force it to land.

Btw, as far as I know helicopters need a hughe amount of maintance too.

Yes, I know, they shouldn't be a superpower, but some airplanes would be nice, but if they can adopt the tactics Hezbollah is using for the defense combined with good anti-tank and aircraft weapons that should be enough for Lebanon. But untill today Israel is preventing hughe updates to the Lebanese Army.

No, they don't want the LAF to have sofisticated weapons because they don't want that the Lebanese Army can step in the place of Hezbollah once Hezbollah is dismantled so the LAF will be effective in defending against Israel, that's why they don't want them to have good weapons.

You have it completely wrong. The Lebanese government is, or at least has to be, a responsible player. Hizbullah can wage war at any time without repercussions. Speaking as an Israeli, I don't care if Lebanon is strong. But I don't want to have such a volatile and unstable country on my border that can wage war at any time. Moreover, someone in Lebanon needs to be held accountable if another war is launched from Lebanese territory. The Lebanese government has to pay for its mistakes at the ballot booth. Hizbullah just gets money from Iran, gives out handouts and uses Iranian money to rebuild villages, and has no one in Lebanon who can hold it accountable for its mistakes. The only entity that can hold hizbullah accountable is the Israeli army, and that isn't a good option for anyone.


Yes, I know, they shouldn't be a superpower, but some airplanes would be nice, but if they can adopt the tactics Hezbollah is using for the defense combined with good anti-tank and aircraft weapons that should be enough for Lebanon. But untill today Israel is preventing hughe updates to the Lebanese Army.

Ladies and gentlemen- the future defense minister of Lebanon!

^^

again, you are very good at ignoring some recent updates in regional developments and still insist on others till

"Israel OKs New Settler Homes as Biden Talks Peace
Israel on Tuesday approved the construction of 1,600 new settler homes in east Jerusalem, announcing the move as U.S. Vice President Joe Biden met top Israeli officials to boost renewed peace efforts.
The controversial move infuriated the Palestinians who consider settlements to be a major hurdle in long-hobbled attempts to reach a peace accord, and who want occupied east Jerusalem as the capital of their promised state."
(naharnet - proisraeli news outlet)

again my friend...Israel does not seek peace, but instead defends an agressive strategy of expansion in the west bank which will make any future Palestinian state non viable, while at the same talks about peace and terror and threats from third countries...you will now give me either of the following 2 replies :

a) in what way does this affect you as lebanese? and my answer will be :

1- lebanon hosts 400k palestinian refugees which need to be sent back to their country in order to ensure that Lebanon survives as a stable country, and since their only chance is to go back to the WB, your expansionist strategy complicates my life as a lebanese and is a huge obstacle to the stability of my country
2- As a human being, I fell disgust at your entitie's treatment of the Palestinian people, which can be used as the best example of human misery, racism, attacks against the most basic human rights and lack of decency the modern world has seen.

b) Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and therefore we are entitled to expand as much as we wish...and I will tell you masks down! haha...you and the lebanese are ennemies, because you are ennemies of the palestinians, and we cannot survive unless the palestinian issue is solved in a decent way, in a way which guarantees that these poor people will gte their rights back.

Doesn't sound very March8 to me...



yes but he needs to grow some balls! :ohno: and stick to the principles, otherwise no one will take him seriously!

No, they don't want the LAF to have sofisticated weapons because they don't want that the Lebanese Army can step in the place of Hezbollah once Hezbollah is dismantled so the LAF will be effective in defending against Israel, that's why they don't want them to have good weapons.

airplanes can be very usefull when being attacked by an agressive neighbour or when an airplane is hijacked and you need to communicate and to force it to land.

Btw, as far as I know helicopters need a hughe amount of maintance too.

Yes, I know, they shouldn't be a superpower, but some airplanes would be nice, but if they can adopt the tactics Hezbollah is using for the defense combined with good anti-tank and aircraft weapons that should be enough for Lebanon. But untill today Israel is preventing hughe updates to the Lebanese Army.

You know who is a huge obstacle to a free and sovereign Lebanon is? HISBALLAH

You can't call them a resistance group for the entire country. In this case only one sect is represented. In order for them to be a true resistance group they have to include Lebanese from all sects coming together in detering the enemy.

^^

again, you are very good at ignoring some recent updates in regional developments and still insist on others till

again my friend...Israel does not seek peace, but instead defends an agressive strategy of expansion in the west bank which will make any future Palestinian state non viable, while at the same talks about peace and terror and threats from third countries...

First of all, I agree with you. I have mixed opinions concerning the settlements- I support some of them (on logistical grounds) and oppose others. But regardless, I think that delegitimizes itself when it calls for peace on the one hand, but then fails to honor its end of agreements by honoring the moratorium on settlement construction.

You have it completely wrong. The Lebanese government is, or at least has to be, a responsible player. 1 Hizbullah can wage war at any time without repercussions. Speaking as an Israeli, I don't care if Lebanon is strong. 2But I don't want to have such a volatile and unstable country on my border that can wage war at any time. Moreover, someone in Lebanon needs to be held accountable if another war is launched from Lebanese territory. 3 The Lebanese government has to pay for its mistakes at the ballot booth. Hizbullah just gets money from Iran, gives out handouts and uses Iranian money to rebuild villages, and has no one in Lebanon who can hold it accountable for its mistakes. The only entity that can hold hizbullah accountable is the Israeli army, and that isn't a good option for anyone.

Ladies and gentlemen- the future defense minister of Lebanon!

1 if there is one country that can ignore all resolutions and start a lot of wars an build illegal settlements without repercussions then it is Israel :lol: Compared to Iraq Israel should have been invaded by the USA already for 40 times :lol: All the supression, occupation, murdering and ethnic cleansing was never stopped. We should have acted and help lebanon to defend against israel in 2006 and shoot down all those israeli's just like we did with the serbs in Kosovo.

2 Yes, we don't want a volatile and unstable country on our border that can wage war at any time, that's why we need a defense, and untill that volatile and unstable country on our border prevents the LAF from getting strong enough to defend like Hizbullah does we need Hizbullah sadly enough.

3 If Israel payed for all they've done they would be bankrupt, all the things they destroyed in and outside israel.

@melkart: there have also been resistance fighters with another religion. And a lot support their resistance even though they are not shi3i. Maybe then more of other religions should also help hezbollah defending against israel?

question.. Have you ever slept under bombs falling here and there? have you ever even heard the sound of an explosion?

2006 war was such a great experience! Really! :nuts:

bisharafak sha! :P
my question is for jb_nl

question.. Have you ever slept under bombs falling here and there? have you ever even heard the sound of an explosion?

happily enough not. So I think it would be better if there wouldn't be any war anymore, but with such a violent neighbour everything is possible and you have to be aware and prepared.

and with such a violent milita * cough cough * Hezbollah poses an even higher risk of another war.

@melkart: there have also been resistance fighters with another religion. And a lot support their resistance even though they are not shi3i. Maybe then more of other religions should also help hezbollah defending against israel?

:wtf: Other resistance groups??? again even if, we are talking about now!

how can other religions join in. If they did they would only serve for PR purposes. They can never be trusted to higher positions in Hisballah!

I don't think you get it! this isn't about resisting the enemy! This is about serving Iran to help it solidify its grip on the Arab world (by means of the Palestinian Israeli conflict). This is just an excuse! a cover up.

In return Hisballah is led by a power hungry thug who will use any means to control his sheep!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/img/ap_logo.gif?hl=en

Iran tops list of jailers of journalists in world
By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI (AP)

BEIRUT — Journalists have become a prime target in an Iranian government crackdown on the opposition following last June's disputed presidential election, with 52 of them currently held — making Iran the top jailer of journalists in the world, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists.

The wave of arrests, which has only accelerated recently, has sent a chill through journalists in Iran at a time when the opposition is struggling to maintain its challenge against the government in the face of a heavy crackdown on pro-reform figures.

In response, a sort of "underground" journalism has emerged, said Reza Valizadeh, 32, who used to work for the state-run radio and television but who fled the country amid the postelection crackdown.

"We have a kind of guerrilla journalists, who wear masks, have no names, write under pseudonyms and send e-mails without mentioning their real names to news outlets outside Iran, or publish in weblogs with pseudonyms," said Valizadeh, who now lives in Paris.

"A very, very bitter and black period awaits journalists," he told The Associated Press.

The at least 52 journalists now in Iranian jails range from freelance reporters to writers for opposition blogs and newspapers and even several for government-owned media, the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists wrote in a report released Tuesday. Seven of them were imprisoned before the June election.

Eleven of those in prison were arrested in February, according to CPJ — and the total number does not include 50 other journalists who were arrested since the election and were since released on bail.

At least a hundred journalists have fled the country, at least 80 of them are in neighboring Turkey.

Charges against the detainees have been vague in most cases, CPJ said, such as "propagation against the regime," insulting authorities, and disrupting public order, while many other cases are shrouded in secrecy, without even formal charges being disclosed.

Some have received prison sentences of up to six years, lashes, internal exile and lifetime bans on writing and other social and political activities. At least two face heresy charges that, upon conviction, would bring the death penalty.

"I understand the price I have to pay," one of the journalists on the CPJ list, Kouhyar Goodarzi, said in an e-mail to The Associated Press shortly before he was picked up by Iranian security forces in December.

He said in the e-mail that he was willing to risk "imprisonment, torture, pressures of interrogation and solitary confinement ... in pursuit of my precious goals."

Although no formal charges have been laid against Goodarzi, he has since told his family that interrogators have mentioned "moharebeh," a vague charge that literally means "waging war" against God and normally carries a death sentence under Iranian law, as well as propaganda against the system through interviews with foreign media and participation in illegal gatherings.

Goodarzi — a member of the Committee for Human Rights Reporters, an independent watchdog group — is currently locked up in Tehran's Evin Prison.

"Iran is entering a state of permanent media repression, a situation that is not only appalling but also untenable," said a statement by CPJ quoting its Executive Director Joel Simon. "The Iranian government will eventually lose the war against information, but we are saddened every day that our colleagues are paying such a terrible price."

The crackdown is an extension of the wave of arrests that Iran has carried out in a bid to crush the opposition movement, which carried out widespread protests claiming that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's victory in the June election was fraudulent. Hundreds have been detained

Part of the aim appears to be to shut down information about the opposition movement. A number of protesters and activists have been jailed in part for talking to foreign press. Several pro-reform newspapers have been shut down — including the Etemaad daily and Irandokht weekly in March, as well as a business journal critical of government policies.

Currently, China is the world's second largest jailer of journalists, with 24 in prison, followed by Cuba, with 22. The number of jailed journalists is the highest CPJ has recorded in a single country since December 1996, when it documented 78 imprisonments in Turkey.

Another of those on the CPJ list is Shiva Nazar Ahari, who has been jailed twice in the last nine months. The second time, she and Goodarzi were detained as they were on their way to the holy city of Qom on a bus to attend the funeral of dissident cleric Ayatollah Hussein Ali Montazeri in late December.

"We don't know what the charges against her are," her mother, Shahrzad Kariman, said in a telephone interview from Tehran. "I haven't been able to speak to anyone, not to the judge. We don't know anything right now. Her lawyer hasn't had access to her files either."

She said when she last saw her daughter in a prison visit two weeks ago, she told her interrogators had said she faces 19 charges but did not say what they were. Ahari spent the first 60 days of her detention in solitary confinement but was moved to another ward about two weeks ago where she shares a cell with another prisoner, Kariman said.

With the coming of the Iranian New Year on March 20, "the family will be together. We would like to celebrate with her," Kariman said.

Fariborz Soroush, 37, who worked for the U.S.-sponsored Radio Farda and was jailed twice for his work, said reporters who write on sports, the economy, social and cultural issues are not spared either these days. They are being summoned to the Intelligence Ministry, interrogated and even jailed.

He left Iran in September, six days after being released. He's now in France.

Valizadeh, the former state TV journalist in exile as well, says the increase in arrests likely indicates interrogators are trying to get information on reporters now working anonymously and underground.

"The detainees may give away information about friends and colleagues under torture," said Valizadeh. "This is what the authorities are looking for."

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/img/ap_logo.gif?hl=en

Iran tops list of jailers of journalists in world
By SCHEHEREZADE FARAMARZI (AP)

BEIRUT — Journalists have become a prime target in an Iranian government crackdown on the opposition following last June's disputed presidential election, with 52 of them currently held — making Iran the top jailer of journalists in the world, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists.

The wave of arrests, which has only accelerated recently, has sent a chill through journalists in Iran at a time when the opposition is struggling to maintain its challenge against the government in the face of a heavy crackdown on pro-reform figures.

In response, a sort of "underground" journalism has emerged, said Reza Valizadeh, 32, who used to work for the state-run radio and television but who fled the country amid the postelection crackdown.

"We have a kind of guerrilla journalists, who wear masks, have no names, write under pseudonyms and send e-mails without mentioning their real names to news outlets outside Iran, or publish in weblogs with pseudonyms," said Valizadeh, who now lives in Paris.

"A very, very bitter and black period awaits journalists," he told The Associated Press.

The at least 52 journalists now in Iranian jails range from freelance reporters to writers for opposition blogs and newspapers and even several for government-owned media, the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists wrote in a report released Tuesday. Seven of them were imprisoned before the June election.

Eleven of those in prison were arrested in February, according to CPJ — and the total number does not include 50 other journalists who were arrested since the election and were since released on bail.

At least a hundred journalists have fled the country, at least 80 of them are in neighboring Turkey.

Charges against the detainees have been vague in most cases, CPJ said, such as "propagation against the regime," insulting authorities, and disrupting public order, while many other cases are shrouded in secrecy, without even formal charges being disclosed.

Some have received prison sentences of up to six years, lashes, internal exile and lifetime bans on writing and other social and political activities. At least two face heresy charges that, upon conviction, would bring the death penalty.

"I understand the price I have to pay," one of the journalists on the CPJ list, Kouhyar Goodarzi, said in an e-mail to The Associated Press shortly before he was picked up by Iranian security forces in December.

He said in the e-mail that he was willing to risk "imprisonment, torture, pressures of interrogation and solitary confinement ... in pursuit of my precious goals."

Although no formal charges have been laid against Goodarzi, he has since told his family that interrogators have mentioned "moharebeh," a vague charge that literally means "waging war" against God and normally carries a death sentence under Iranian law, as well as propaganda against the system through interviews with foreign media and participation in illegal gatherings.

Goodarzi — a member of the Committee for Human Rights Reporters, an independent watchdog group — is currently locked up in Tehran's Evin Prison.

"Iran is entering a state of permanent media repression, a situation that is not only appalling but also untenable," said a statement by CPJ quoting its Executive Director Joel Simon. "The Iranian government will eventually lose the war against information, but we are saddened every day that our colleagues are paying such a terrible price."

The crackdown is an extension of the wave of arrests that Iran has carried out in a bid to crush the opposition movement, which carried out widespread protests claiming that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's victory in the June election was fraudulent. Hundreds have been detained

Part of the aim appears to be to shut down information about the opposition movement. A number of protesters and activists have been jailed in part for talking to foreign press. Several pro-reform newspapers have been shut down — including the Etemaad daily and Irandokht weekly in March, as well as a business journal critical of government policies.

Currently, China is the world's second largest jailer of journalists, with 24 in prison, followed by Cuba, with 22. The number of jailed journalists is the highest CPJ has recorded in a single country since December 1996, when it documented 78 imprisonments in Turkey.

Another of those on the CPJ list is Shiva Nazar Ahari, who has been jailed twice in the last nine months. The second time, she and Goodarzi were detained as they were on their way to the holy city of Qom on a bus to attend the funeral of dissident cleric Ayatollah Hussein Ali Montazeri in late December.

"We don't know what the charges against her are," her mother, Shahrzad Kariman, said in a telephone interview from Tehran. "I haven't been able to speak to anyone, not to the judge. We don't know anything right now. Her lawyer hasn't had access to her files either."

She said when she last saw her daughter in a prison visit two weeks ago, she told her interrogators had said she faces 19 charges but did not say what they were. Ahari spent the first 60 days of her detention in solitary confinement but was moved to another ward about two weeks ago where she shares a cell with another prisoner, Kariman said.

With the coming of the Iranian New Year on March 20, "the family will be together. We would like to celebrate with her," Kariman said.

Fariborz Soroush, 37, who worked for the U.S.-sponsored Radio Farda and was jailed twice for his work, said reporters who write on sports, the economy, social and cultural issues are not spared either these days. They are being summoned to the Intelligence Ministry, interrogated and even jailed.

He left Iran in September, six days after being released. He's now in France.

Valizadeh, the former state TV journalist in exile as well, says the increase in arrests likely indicates interrogators are trying to get information on reporters now working anonymously and underground.

"The detainees may give away information about friends and colleagues under torture," said Valizadeh. "This is what the authorities are looking for."

Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

2006 war was such a great experience! Really! :nuts:

LoL tell me about it!

Rabih, how come your so worried about press freedom in iran...you never stop to amaze me...aren't you also motivated by the assasinations of journalists in Palestine for example?

posting all kind of BS on Iran is not going to help in your propaganda campaign...at least not in this forum...you do have other forums where this kind of sensationalist articles are more than welcome...i can give you a long list of israeli funded blogs, blogs based in europe or the US and financed by pro-israeli pressure groups...do you believe I can't fill the forum with updates on the violation of human rights in "Israel", Palestine, the US, Iraq or Mauritius...really man, stop the crap and invest in lebanese affairs...you won't bring down the Iranian regime posting nonsense on skyscrapercity.com

^^ who are you again?

i'm sorry man, i'm not trying to sit on your nerves, it's just that i'm amazed at your insistence on bringing up the same old stuff over and over again...you guys critisize alisaleh for his repetitive speeches and still you come up all the time with sensationalist news on Iran's supposed evil regime...i'm just giving my opinion, that it's better to stick to lebanese issues, cause if we start posting what israel does on a daily basis or the human right abuses by the US, China and other powers all over the world it's gonna be pretty boring...i'd just like to keep the forum lebanese...that's all

Listen man, I understand your frustration and temporary rant, as an outsider speaking ideals. So nothing personal, but let me explain myself and where my actions come from:

It's very naive to keep repeating terms like "Stick to Lebanese issues", because on the ground this is not the case! and weather we like or not, countries like Israel, Iran, Syria, the US, .. all have a role to play in our country's politics.

The reason why I posted the "Freedom of press in Iran" article and other similar ones is to point out for the Lebanese who ally themselves with the Iranian regime the reality that they're -by association, agreeing with!
I dare anyone (March 8, March 14) to come and say that the freedoms of Lebanon is not something he/she feels proud of!

Also if you lived in Lebanon you'd know that there's no shortage in anti-Israel sentiments. Many young people are brain washed from birth and are taught to dehumanize Israelis as some sort of demonic cult, obsessed in killing, occupying & torturing and to glorify Arab nationalism.

This pan-Arab propaganda have been fed by non other than corrupted governments like the Asaad, Qadhafi, Saddam,.. because of their chronic complex resulted from loosing multiple wars they waged collaboratively on a single army.

All this being said and still a person in Lebanon can not speak publicly of naturalizing relations with Israel. I wish if the Lebanese would have the chance to vote in a memorandum by YES or NO regarding that issue.

Please keep in mind that the last time I made a personal statement on this forum was a very long time ago. All I do now is post interesting articles by an internationally recognized news source and hope that the people who come across them might become a little more encouraged to open their minds and think for themselves.

After all, the forum is called [Enter at your own Risk]!

OK Rabih, no worries man...i just find it very dramatic that you, as a lebanese, are willing to defend a declared ennemy of the lebanese state that is directly responsible for the deaths of dozens of thousands of lebanese comrades of all sects and ethnic backgrounds, an ennemy who has no respect whatsoever for human life and does not respect in any way international resolutions or human right bills...an entitie that carried out all kinds of aggressions resulting in the deaths of 100ks of people...of arabs. Ok, you dislike arabs...i understand that...you don't mind them being killed...ok...you want peace with Israel, i even understand this too taking into consideration your lack of interest in issues like human rights and all that stuff...but still, you can't be so naive to come and tell me that israel wants peace...turn on your tv and watch the news...let me give you a hint :p

Suleiman: Israel's Settlement Expansion Plan Makes Peace Futile
President Michel Suleiman said Thursday that the Israeli government's announcement earlier this week of plans to build 1,600 new homes in disputed east Jerusalem confirms that any opportunity for peace is useless.
"The policy of elusion from international pressure adopted by the government of the enemy is a sign that it is unprepared or unwilling to start serious negotiations with the Palestinians to achieve comprehensive peace in the region," Suleiman said in a statement.

He also said Israel was refusing peace that would grant the Palestinians their rights and the right for the return of refugees to their homeland.
Prospects for indirect peace talks lay in tatters on Thursday after the Palestinians said they would not negotiate with Israel unless it reversed the plans to build 1,600 settler homes in east Jerusalem.

The move came following a similar decision by the Arab League as international pressure mounted on Israel after the project was announced during a visit by U.S. Vice President Joe Biden aimed at promoting the talks. (naharnet)

(that was supposed to be your president...he is mine at least)

Again Rabih, you might be a staunch proisraeli, and you are free to make your own choice, but in my humble opinion, and sure many will disagree, that is not compatible with being lebanese. Some might wish to try peace with israel out of a mixture of boredom and innocence...but those need to read the news and wake up from this pleasant dream of peace...israel wants to expand and will expand...and this means no Palestinian state and that means half a million palestinians in Lebanon for good...give them nationality if you have courage...give them all rights and let them settle for good in Lebanon if you have the courage...if you don't have the courage, find a solution because we all know how lebanon would be without 500k palestinian refugees living in it.

Aezzeddi - We cant keep carrying the burden of everyone who ever died. That cant even be considered if we want to move on with our lives. For god sakes, what about the civil war and the lebanese that died because of other lebanese. There was no apology, no public memorial, no mass grave, no public/civil reconciliation. If you're point is that we cant have peace with israel because of human rights issues, then doesnt that apply for the lebanese nation as well. Issues like this are important to acknowledge, but in no way should they stand as barriers to peace

Being Lebanese is not synonymous with being anti israeli. I think that is actually a very barbaric way of looking at it. If you care so much about humanitarian rights, why can't you see the humans on the other side of this war.

I am against Israel, but I understand them as humans and I do not hate them. They are hypocrites, bullies, and liars, but these are human traits... that even we lebanese are guilty of. We are not innocent. Take it from a guy that is involved in examining lebanese nationalism, if we look hard in the mirror, we arent so pretty either.

also.... do we know what lebanon is like without Palestinian refugees? .... maybe you would if you were 20 in 1948? Which i doubt you were.

Excuse me all for my language, and Beiruti feel free to brigg me but i feel i need to get the following out of my system and adress the disgusting views of this Israeli.

You have it completely wrong. The Lebanese government is, or at least has to be, a responsible player. Hizbullah can wage war at any time without repercussions. Speaking as an Israeli, I don't care if Lebanon is strong. But I don't want to have such a volatile and unstable country on my border that can wage war at any time. Moreover, someone in Lebanon needs to be held accountable if another war is launched from Lebanese territory. The Lebanese government has to pay for its mistakes at the ballot booth. Hizbullah just gets money from Iran, gives out handouts and uses Iranian money to rebuild villages, and has no one in Lebanon who can hold it accountable for its mistakes. The only entity that can hold hizbullah accountable is the Israeli army, and that isn't a good option for anyone.


What the fuck. Who in fucks name can you be stupid, uneducated and plain doumb enough to say anything along the lines of anything about Hezbollah being accountable for something. Does this sound familiar??

You have a issue with Hezbollah's arms huh?? Well habibi like i said before, without Hezbollah's arms, I would not be having this discussion with you. The Southern Lebanon as of now; 2010 would still be ruins. Our women would still be raped, our men still decapitated, our families still in absolute treachery. Our goods would still be stolen, as well as our homes, farms, food and water still stolen and occupied. Our people would still be isolated from the rest of the country. The people of Southern Lebanon would still be in disbelief, shock, anxiety, depression, and complete financial wreck. Our people would still have their identity stolen from them and We would not have the right to pursuit happiness, our lives would still be ruined. You say our resistance is not justified. If Mexico were to invade and ocupy Texas, rape their women decapitate their men in front of their children, put families in absoulute treachery, apply terror among texans to the upmost degree, the American Army is extremely weak, and Americans not livign in Texas do not give a crap about what is happening; does this not give a justified reason for resistance?? HUHHHHH?????? Now in the future after Mexico every day steals Texas water, land, violtes Texas's air, sea space every day, insults, and tantlaies texans each day, holds thousands of Texan prisoners!! You Chevre must know how it feels to know that your brother, father is in the enemy's hands becuase he fought so you can eat dinner each day. Does this guys, not provide a justified reason for the Texan resistance not to capture a handful of Mexicans for a prisoner swap. Then after all this, considering that Mexico is still each, and every day violeting your safety, souverinty, and cosnidering that you still have memoreis of you wife being raped in front of you eyes, your brother being decaptitated, in front of your nephew!! Considering that your neighbor has statistically violated the most UN resolution's, statistically committed the most, and worst crimes in humanity, for pete's sake when you know that your neighbor has stolen a whole country, and has settled in their homes, and tortured the homeowners, and throw the whole population in a small radius, so they can just hop back over there and once again commit further acts of terrorism. After all of this, you say we don't have the right to bear arms, well think again.
You make me sad. I swear you make me sad. Hezbollah will benefit, because it will have another reason to justify its resistance. Boy after all of that i wrote up there. After all the terrorism your country has commited you dare, you dare say that we need more reasons to have a "excuse" for resistance. I am extremely offended, by your lack of sense, in fact All Israeli's contradict themselves. They say that the old testament says to take Israel. Well does the old testanment say, to kill the most children and women, does it say to rape women in front of her children, does it say to decapitate men, our cause families and people complete and utter treachery. Does in say to steal and occupy homes, farms, food water, ruins, people's personal belongings, burn religious buildings and religious books, for pete's sake does it say to steal a whole population of their identity. Does it say to PURPOSELY provide people with the up most shock, anxiety, depression, sadness and complete financial wreck. Your military and government will always, every day commit these crimes. They are a criminal army. THEY NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. They need to seek peace with Palestinians. They need to seek peace with Lebanese. They need to be a peace-loving nation. Not a terrorism-loving nation. Peace is everything Southern Lebanese, and Palestains want, we want to stop being tortured and crushed by Israel. Hezbollah in Lebaon has given us that assurance. We will disarm when when the International Community, acts, and holds your terrorists accountable for the crimes they have committed. And halt these actions in the future, and FORCES ISRAEL to make peace. But that can never happen. It can never happen becuase Israel undoubtedly controls the world. Through AIPAC they control America. Through AIPAC they have destroyed two middle eastern countries and utilized them for there financially gain. My friend the question doent lie on Lebanon or Palestinian, IT LIES ON ISRAEL!
DID YOU EVER CARE TO REPLY TO THIS???
YOU ARE A SAD PERSON!!!!!
OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!!!!
YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!!! :ohno::ohno::ohno:
get a life!!!

Once again sorry for this tantrum but this pathetic guy make me sick!!!!

Aezzeddi - We cant keep carrying the burden of everyone who ever died. That cant even be considered if we want to move on with our lives. For god sakes, what about the civil war and the lebanese that died because of other lebanese. There was no apology, no public memorial, no mass grave, no public/civil reconciliation. If you're point is that we cant have peace with israel because of human rights issues, then doesnt that apply for the lebanese nation as well. Issues like this are important to acknowledge, but in no way should they stand as barriers to peace

Being Lebanese is not synonymous with being anti israeli. I think that is actually a very barbaric way of looking at it. If you care so much about humanitarian rights, why can't you see the humans on the other side of this war.

I am against Israel, but I understand them as humans and I do not hate them. They are hypocrites, bullies, and liars, but these are human traits... that even we lebanese are guilty of. We are not innocent. Take it from a guy that is involved in examining lebanese nationalism, if we look hard in the mirror, we arent so pretty either.

also.... do we know what lebanon is like without Palestinian refugees? .... maybe you would if you were 20 in 1948? Which i doubt you were.

I agree we need to move on but peace does not lie on Lebanon, it lies on Israel, and the International community to hold Israel accountable for the acts of terrorism it has commited, and push it towards peace, and make it a peace-loving country not a terrorism-loving country. And with the International community not giving a crap about the previous and current violations, Israel commits, and belaaks urging Israel to continue where does any sort of assurance come from??
I think like many politicians have proposed, the resistance needs to be part of the umbrella Lebanese defense and work with LAF to protect Lebanon. This ultimately pushes Lebanese towards unity.

OK Rabih, no worries man...i just find it very dramatic that you, as a lebanese, are willing to defend a declared ennemy of the lebanese state that is directly responsible for the deaths of dozens of thousands of lebanese comrades of all sects and ethnic backgrounds, an ennemy who has no respect whatsoever for human life and does not respect in any way international resolutions or human right bills...an entitie that carried out all kinds of aggressions resulting in the deaths of 100ks of people...of arabs. Ok, you dislike arabs...i understand that...you don't mind them being killed...ok...you want peace with Israel, i even understand this too taking into consideration your lack of interest in issues like human rights and all that stuff...


And I'm the dramatic one!

Honestly I'm not in any way going to be dragged to this thread. The News articles I post are and will be my only contribution.

I'm just disappointed in your responses.

^^ ok,i sounded too dramatic...sorry for that...i just like to be clear, and i'm just trying to say that to me, being pro-israeli is being co-responsible for the demential behaviours of this failed state...that is all...again, no feelings against you and i understand that you don't wish to debate...but that is only cause you have no answer to the second part of my post, which is the most interesting...i give you that...but don't put it like you don't wish to be dragged into this...if you post propaganda against Iran, which could be reasonable, y not!, you are getting involved and taking sides and so i believe you should be honest and brave enough to defend your views with solid facts...solutions to offer?...no...any answer to my worries about the future of the palestinian people in lebanon???...no...any opinion on the latest mockery of the so called peace process???...sure not...just anti-iranian propaganda in a day where the int community is still looking around lost, trying to figure out what to do about the latest israeli plans for Jerusalem...wondering y did israel make this aggressive move when the palestinians are dying to sit to negotiate and would even get the left overs of palestine to found their state...that's because they are weak, and when an israeli faces a weak opponent he steps on him...and that's your peace...again,there's no intention for peace, no chance for a viable pal state and that means more drama in the region, more instability in lebanon and a huge obstacle that keeps parts of lebanon stuck in the XV century...

no personal feelings about you rabih, but be honest

and lebnani,i dont know if lebanon would be better or worst without the pals...i just imagine lebanon without bourjl barajne, sabra, chatila, ain l helwe, rashidiyye, nahr l bered, beddawi, PLO-GC etc... and it sound soooooooo nice.....

question.. Have you ever slept under bombs falling here and there? have you ever even heard the sound of an explosion?

+1

Excuse me all for my language, and Beiruti feel free to brigg me but i feel i need to get the following out of my system and adress the disgusting views of this Israeli.



What the fuck. Who in fucks name can you be stupid, uneducated and plain doumb enough to say anything along the lines of anything about Hezbollah being accountable for something. Does this sound familiar??


DID YOU EVER CARE TO REPLY TO THIS???
YOU ARE A SAD PERSON!!!!!
OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!!!!
YOU MAKE ME SICK!!!!! :ohno::ohno::ohno:
get a life!!!

Once again sorry for this tantrum but this pathetic guy make me sick!!!!


Again, why is it that you, alisaleh, etc have to resort to personal attacks? Cant you debate in a civil manner? I am not going to brigg you because I know that you are just upset right now, but this is your FINAL warning.

Ok Aezzeddi, I never said I was pro-Israel. You assumed that!

I have so many things to say about Israel, after all I was in Lebanon during the occupation of the south, 1996 and 2006!
It is just that I am coming from a place above all these nationalistic sentiments because I finally realized that they would get us no where!

Besides why does it have it be either this or that? Can't I be against Israel's racist ideology and aggressive actions but yet support "naturalizing relations" with it?! (notice I used the term naturalizing not peace, not yet)

It's very hypocritical to judge Israel for it's actions by a set of criteria and judge others by a different one!

Please read the below example, yet Lebanon's relationship to Syria is described as "brotherhood"! Therefore, I'm asking is it that much of a blasphemy to ask for "naturalizing" relations with Israel and at least start the peace process somewhere?

Ex-Lebanese Policeman Files Lawsuit against 4 Syrian Officers
A former policeman with Lebanon's Internal Security Forces Elias Tanious has filed a lawsuit against four Syrian officers on kidnapping on nine-year imprisonment charges.
The lawsuit identified the Syrian officers as Jameh Jameh, who was head of security at the Beau Rivage Hotel in Beirut during the Syrian tutelage over Lebanon and Kamal Youssef, better known as Nabi Youssef, Col. Deeb Zaytouni and Col. Barakat al-Ish, in addition to Ghassan Alloush, a Syrian native who became a naturalized Lebanese citizen.

It charged the officers snatched him from a friend's house in Beirut's Talet al-Khayyat neighborhood the night of Dec. 15, 1991 and took him to Beau Rivage where Jameh was waiting for him.

Tanious told the story of his torture to the daily An-Nahar.

"I was beaten almost to death," Tanious recalled, before moving him to Anjar where he fell into the hands of Nabi Youssef.

"There, I wished I would rather die than go through all these phases of torture," he said.

Tanious said torture included pulling out his nails, the wheel and the electric chair.

The former policeman said that from Anjar he was taken to Mazzeh prison in Syria and then to other Syrian jails after he was tried in a "mock court" in Jdeidit Yabous where a number of Syrian officers, including Zaytoni, were present.


Beirut, 11 Mar 10, 10:39

As for your question about the Palestinians, they will never be naturalized in Lebanon! And they will continue to remain there until the conflict ends and Arabs finally accept Israel (10+ years)

One more thing, you don't know me and so you don't know what entices me to take part in a debate! I don't like to speak like this but I feel I need to let you know that I am part of several international programs that involve conflict management (http://soliya.net/), international debates (http://www.thedohadebates.com/), and I'm an alumni to an international institute by Georgetown University (http://www.georgetown.edu/)

Honestly man, all I want is pro-business pro-Liberalism Lebanon. This is the only way a country this diverse can work! If I remember correctly, you live in Spain right? Take that for an example!

+1

Instead of handing out +1 here and a +1 there how about you answer me buddy?? HUH????

How about you attempt to fight back the truth that you know about your country
How about you attempt to fight back the true facts about your country.
Or do you just want to hop back to this thread in a few days, and restate your same crap, just so you can scurry away again.
How about you comprehend the facts around you, and stop living in denial.
How about you attempt to put together a reply.
:bash::bash:

ya zalame tawwel belak....

low 3am te7ke ma3 Ehud Barak, natanyahu, 2ou Tzipi Livni b2oul fe faydeh enno tetshera3 .... bas khalas. Sho 2eza 2ana3to 7a tefro2..... kib 3al ba7er ma fe she me7rez.

happily enough not. So I think it would be better if there wouldn't be any war anymore, but with such a violent neighbour everything is possible and you have to be aware and prepared.

aware and prepared? Who and How exactly?

Of course Hizbolla is aware and prepared..the LA is aware but not prepared..the Southerners are not prepared( the average Hussein who has no other place to hide in or access to any embassy to get himself evacuated as Jader does, is not ready).. I am not prepared and you should stop being a lecturer.

On the other side, when Israel wants war it will do anything to start one, and once its bombs start to fall everywhere and anywhere, we- prepared or not-automatically can not be but on Hizbolla's side, eventhough we know that no matter how high its awarness and preparation can get, we will all be screwed.

As for your question about the Palestinians, they will never be naturalized in Lebanon! And they will continue to remain there until the conflict ends and Arabs finally accept Israel (10+ years)

You're being hypocritical here. If Lebanon normalizes relations with Israel, it means it has accepted to integrate and settle its Palestinian refugees. Israel constantly demands that the Palestinians renounce their right to return and that its Arab neighbors absorb the Palestinian refugees. Under any peace treaty with Israel, you can be sure that Israel will stipulate this condition.

^^ No. Not necessarily so!
It's called negotiation for a reason. I am not saying it would be easy but at least a channel of communication would begin somewhere.
I'm not expert in this, but all Lebanese unanimously refuse naturalizing Palestinian refugees and it is Israel who keeps calling Lebanon for peace talks.

Also, Israel's Arab neighbors have already absorbed the Palestinians and they're now citizens of Syria, Jordan ..


and what's with "hypocritical"? Did you at least ask me to elaborate more on what I said!

^^ No. Not necessarily so!
It's called negotiation for a reason. I am not saying it would be easy but at least a channel of communication would begin somewhere.
I'm not expert in this, but all Lebanese unanimously refuse naturalizing Palestinian refugees and it is Israel who keeps calling Lebanon for peace talks.

Also, Israel's Arab neighbors have already absorbed the Palestinians and they're now citizens of Syria, Jordan ..


and what's with "hypocritical"? Did you at least ask me to elaborate more on what I said!

Calm down. It's hypocritical to say you want a premature peace with Israel, but at the same time say the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon will never be settled.

Israel will never accept the return of Palestinian refugees, period. So a peace treaty with Israel means Lebanon has accepted to absorb the Palestinian refugees. Lebanon will be required to renounce demands for the Palestinian refugee's right of return as leaders currently always say.

Jordan naturalized its Palestinian refugees long ago. More than 70% of Jordan's population is of Palestinian origin, so there was no obstacle in this regard when it came to making peace with Israel.

Syria did not naturalize its Palestinian refugees. They're still refugees, but have more rights and are treated better than Lebanon's Palestinian refugees. If a peace treaty is signed between Syria and Israel, then expect to see Syria naturalize its Palestinian refugees.

You're being hypocritical here. If Lebanon normalizes relations with Israel, it means it has accepted to integrate and settle its Palestinian refugees. Israel constantly demands that the Palestinians renounce their right to return and that its Arab neighbors absorb the Palestinian refugees. Under any peace treaty with Israel, you can be sure that Israel will stipulate this condition.

We can still make peace with the Israelis and not agree with everything they put forth. Our issue and concern are the Palestinian refugees, and some territorial disputes, but that shouldn'/t be an obstacle to normalize our relationship with the Isrtaelis.

Calm down. It's hypocritical to say you want a premature peace with Israel, but at the same time say the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon will never be settled.

Israel will never accept the return of Palestinian refugees, period. So a peace treaty with Israel means Lebanon has accepted to absorb the Palestinian refugees. Lebanon will be required to renounce demands for the Palestinian refugee's right of return as leaders currently always say.

Jordan naturalized its Palestinian refugees long ago. More than 70% of Jordan's population is of Palestinian origin, so there was no obstacle in this regard when it came to making peace with Israel.

Syria did not naturalize its Palestinian refugees. They're still refugees, but have more rights and are treated better than Lebanon's Palestinian refugees. If a peace treaty is signed between Syria and Israel, then expect to see Syria naturalize its Palestinian refugees.

A peace treaty is a document like a contract! we can write our own clause as long as the Israelis agree to it. Having said that no one is stipulating that Lebanon has to settle the refugees. Surely Israel isn't gonna agree to take them back, but I think they are willing to shelf that aside and normalize other pertinent issues like a permanent cessation of hostilities, demarcating borders, etc.

We can still make peace with the Israelis and not agree with everything they put forth. Our issue and concern are the Palestinian refugees, and some territorial disputes, but that shouldn'/t be an obstacle to normalize our relationship with the Isrtaelis.

Israel will not sign a peace treaty unless Lebanon renounces right of return. Egypt and Jordan were required to do so in their peace treaties with Israel and Lebanon will be required to do so as well.

again, i don't intend to march on Jerusalem and liberate it from zionist scum, but still my main concern is the future stability of lebanon and its growth, both economically as well as culturally and the huge Palestinian presence in lebanon is an obstacle to our development, and therefore the well known and publically stated israeli refusal to allow the palestinians to return, not even to the WB, is simply cutting the way to any negotiation process...it is simply ridiculous to even sit with them...if you have any doubt, the guys are simply expanding with no limits, exhausting the palestinian leadership and humiliating them day by day, with settlements all over the WB and Jerusalem...no Pal state will emerge with the current israeli strategy and we'll pay the price...wake up...there's nothing to negotiate.

Israel will not sign a peace treaty unless Lebanon renounces right of return. Egypt and Jordan were required to do so in their peace treaties with Israel and Lebanon will be required to do so as well.

It's worth giving it a shot, either way even if we renounce there right of return, that doesn't mean we would want them to settle in Lebanon! and to be honest Israel will never accept them in there own territory, so what is the point of waiting. We need to think about other alternatives!

It's worth giving it a shot, either way even if we renounce there right of return, that doesn't mean we would want them to settle in Lebanon!

What you're saying doesn't make any sense. If we renounce their right of return and it doesn't mean we accept their settlement, then where do they go? Put them on boats and let them drift into sea?

and to be honest Israel will never accept them in there own territory, so what is the point of waiting.

The Palestinian refugees are a key bargaining chip in any future negotiations for Middle East peace. Regardless of Israel not accepting their return, the 2002 Beirut Peace Initiative calls for normalized relations with Israel by all Arab countries provided Israel returns to the 1967 borders and a fair solution is found for the Palestinian refugees. Whatever that "fair solution" happens to be, the refugees are a key bargaining chip to achieving that fair solution and to prematurely sign an individual peace treaty with Israel that results in Lebanon renouncing their right of return will be detrimental in achieving that long-term peace and fair solution.

We need to think about other alternatives!

There is another alternative that results in peace without serious detrimental political consequences of a premature peace treaty and that is the 1949 armistice agreement.

Israel is simply deniying the right on a state, what they say is: there never existed a Palestinian state, so how can we be occupiying them if they never had a land? That are their official statements!

It's almost impossible to negotiate with these unreasonable morons.

basically Syrian workers who tend to be smelly and not even close to be clean ...not mentioning if its a girl sitting next to him ...they will act cool !

I can't believe ppl are so racist in Lebanon. I sit with Syrian workers in buses all the time, it's great fun and no one has ever dared harassing me, a woman, alone. You people need to get out of your arrogant bubble.

^^ very well said, I have also come across some of our own patriots who smell like major b.o. so it isn't just syrians. I mean let's face do they even bathe on a daily basis ?

Well I didn't say that Syrians are smelly, so to say 'it isn't just Syrians it's Lebanese as well' does not have my support at all.

By saying 'do they even bathe on a daily basis' you are probably referring to the fact that many workers live in the buildings that they are constructing and hence do not have easy access to showers. I think that this is not true because I always see water tanks there, and I never smell anything in the white buses that I take on an almost daily basis. I can't believe I even have to say this to prove you (Mrwizard) wrong.

In any case: the argument that a metro would scare off natives because foreign workers are using it shows that many people have a lot to overcome in this country...

^^ Correct,but are with the idea of having a Metro or subway in Beirut.

Israel is simply deniying the right on a state, what they say is: there never existed a Palestinian state, so how can we be occupiying them if they never had a land? That are their official statements!

It's almost impossible to negotiate with these unreasonable morons.

But Palestine was never a state it was the name of a Mandate the British chose to name that region from the Turks after world war 1.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/images/map_palestine_mandate.jpg

Jordan and Egypt had Gaza and the west bank up until 1967, if the so called "Palestinians" wanted a country in that area why didn't they make it then....wanna know why? lets hear what the PLO said a while back.

March 31, 1977,Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. :

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

____________________________________

In 1948 the Arab Nationalists kicked out 1.2 million Jews from their new Arab countries and Israel absorbed them all and are now the majority of Israel. You guys are telling me that the 23 Huge Arab countries couldn't absorb the 600 thousand Arab " Palestinians" in 1948....the answer is that they don't want to absorb the Arabs because they want to throw everything on Israel because their ultimate goal is to turn the one Jewish state into another Shariah law Arab state where us Indigenous Jews from the middle east and the Jewish refugees from Europe have to live under the feet of another Arab dictator.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/kavka3/PALI-1-1.jpg

Imagine it was the other way around, imagine the 23 Arab countries were Israel and you Arabs had one tiny little country where you would want to live alone without anyone bothering you. Israel would go out of its way to help you Arabs as they are doing with the Bahai's, Vietnamese, Sudanese and Christian Lebanese who were seeking a safe haven in Israel......but I guess you Arabs think that you own the entire middle east......right?.

PS: Don't give me that stupid story that Jews lived in peace with Arabs for centuries. My family comes from Kurdistan and my Great grandfather was killed by a Muslim Arab in the Shooq because he was Jewish. He was a farmer, he used to give our Muslim Kurds and Arab neighbors food when there was no food and helped everyone out and this is how they repay him?. My family then left to live with Family in Azerbaijan and the Soviets came and took most of my family and my grandfather and 7 of his brother to war against the Nazis which you Arabs supported and my grandfather was the only one who came back. Then my Family moved to Israel to live a normal life then what happens? my cousins, uncles and friends gets killed in war with the Arabs. The same Arabs who don't like the idea of us determining our own fate in our own state . So please don't use that story.

"You Arabs"

^^what a rude kid... you kept using it like it was a derogatory term

just ingore it, he is a lost cause.

But Palestine was never a state it was the name of a Mandate the British chose to name that region from the Turks after world war 1.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/images/map_palestine_mandate.jpg

Jordan and Egypt had Gaza and the west bank up until 1967, if the so called "Palestinians" wanted a country in that area why didn't they make it then....wanna know why? lets hear what the PLO said a while back.

March 31, 1977,Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. :

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

____________________________________

In 1948 the Arab Nationalists kicked out 1.2 million Jews from their new Arab countries and Israel absorbed them all and are now the majority of Israel. You guys are telling me that the 23 Huge Arab countries couldn't absorb the 600 thousand Arab " Palestinians" in 1948....the answer is that they don't want to absorb the Arabs because they want to throw everything on Israel because their ultimate goal is to turn the one Jewish state into another Shariah law Arab state where us Indigenous Jews from the middle east and the Jewish refugees from Europe have to live under the feet of another Arab dictator.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/kavka3/PALI-1-1.jpg

Imagine it was the other way around, imagine the 23 Arab countries were Israel and you Arabs had one tiny little country where you would want to live alone without anyone bothering you. Israel would go out of its way to help you Arabs as they are doing with the Bahai's, Vietnamese, Sudanese and Christian Lebanese who were seeking a safe haven in Israel......but I guess you Arabs think that you own the entire middle east......right?.

PS: Don't give me that stupid story that Jews lived in peace with Arabs for centuries. My family comes from Kurdistan and my Great grandfather was killed by a Muslim Arab in the Shooq because he was Jewish. He was a farmer, he used to give our Muslim Kurds and Arab neighbors food when there was no food and helped everyone out and this is how they repay him?. My family then left to live with Family in Azerbaijan and the Soviets came and took most of my family and my grandfather and 7 of his brother to war against the Nazis which you Arabs supported and my grandfather was the only one who came back. Then my Family moved to Israel to live a normal life then what happens? my cousins, uncles and friends gets killed in war with the Arabs. The same Arabs who don't like the idea of us determining our own fate in our own state . So please don't use that story.

Wow probably the most one sided BS of an argument I have read on this issue. Please post somewhere else dude, you are just a flat out racist. :ohno:

^^listen kavka3, ur ignorance is appalling so is your stupidity .. go look up the information u posted before lecturing us on how we are, your stupidity is so evident you posted a picture of the Meghan Avraham Synagogue in Downtown Beirut which was destroyed completely and solely by ISRAEL ITSELF during the bombardment of Beirut in 1982, where isael viciously murdered 45,000 Lebanese citizens, go back to the scum-bag you came from and never post here again until u get yourself a decent education in history and facts.

^^listen kavka3, ur ignorance is appalling so is your stupidity .. go look up the information u posted before lecturing us on how we are, your stupidity is so evident you posted a picture of the Meghan Avraham Synagogue in Downtown Beirut which was destroyed completely and solely by ISRAEL ITSELF during the bombardment of Beirut in 1982, where isael viciously murdered 45,000 Lebanese citizens, go back to the scum-bag you came from and never post here again until u get yourself a decent education in history and facts.

Notice how he posts facts like "arab countries attacking Israel," but he never cares to mention why in the world the Arabs were "attacking." The Arab forces were resisting the Israeli occupation, and creation.

But Palestine was never a state it was the name of a Mandate the British chose to name that region from the Turks after world war 1.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/images/map_palestine_mandate.jpg

Jordan and Egypt had Gaza and the west bank up until 1967, if the so called "Palestinians" wanted a country in that area why didn't they make it then....wanna know why? lets hear what the PLO said a while back.

March 31, 1977,Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. :

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

____________________________________

In 1948 the Arab Nationalists kicked out 1.2 million Jews from their new Arab countries and Israel absorbed them all and are now the majority of Israel. You guys are telling me that the 23 Huge Arab countries couldn't absorb the 600 thousand Arab " Palestinians" in 1948....the answer is that they don't want to absorb the Arabs because they want to throw everything on Israel because their ultimate goal is to turn the one Jewish state into another Shariah law Arab state where us Indigenous Jews from the middle east and the Jewish refugees from Europe have to live under the feet of another Arab dictator.
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/kavka3/PALI-1-1.jpg

Imagine it was the other way around, imagine the 23 Arab countries were Israel and you Arabs had one tiny little country where you would want to live alone without anyone bothering you. Israel would go out of its way to help you Arabs as they are doing with the Bahai's, Vietnamese, Sudanese and Christian Lebanese who were seeking a safe haven in Israel......but I guess you Arabs think that you own the entire middle east......right?.

PS: Don't give me that stupid story that Jews lived in peace with Arabs for centuries. My family comes from Kurdistan and my Great grandfather was killed by a Muslim Arab in the Shooq because he was Jewish. He was a farmer, he used to give our Muslim Kurds and Arab neighbors food when there was no food and helped everyone out and this is how they repay him?. My family then left to live with Family in Azerbaijan and the Soviets came and took most of my family and my grandfather and 7 of his brother to war against the Nazis which you Arabs supported and my grandfather was the only one who came back. Then my Family moved to Israel to live a normal life then what happens? my cousins, uncles and friends gets killed in war with the Arabs. The same Arabs who don't like the idea of us determining our own fate in our own state . So please don't use that story.



Boohooo...Do you really think that we are this ignorant? We won't just believe any piece of information like most Americans which you have fooled. Moreover, we know our History, stop fabricating lies. Go back to Israel and savor your last moments in it before we take it back.

pff, this guy is a crazy zionist. he only seems to have made an acount for p osting this shit.

This guy is just one of many hasbara fellowships members, he gets paid for posting this crap. I have seen suspicious hasbara members on other forums posting the same shit he just did.

So dont waste your time replying him.

actually I was refering to the average Lebanese whether they shower on a daily basis. For instance in many European countries they don't.

This guy is just one of many hasbara fellowships members, he gets paid for posting this crap. I have seen suspicious hasbara members on other forums posting the same shit he just did.

So dont waste your time replying him.

Lol.... Hasbara is such bullsh*t. But I don't think that this guy was trying to do Hasbara (at least I hope that this is not the case).

Some of the people running Israel live with their heads burried under the ground, completely oblivious to what is going on around them. Some of the gimmicks that Israel has resorted to (ex--- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFePzshIruw ). I mean, I understand the need for Hasbara (and it is important), but attacking people as the poster above did or doing silly gimmicks like the one i posted in the link above isn't how I imagine hasbara.

I cam across this map from 1991 on wikipedia while looking for some info on the Civil war (after watching the brilliant " In the Shadows of the City")

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Lebanon_sectors_map.jpg

And about that new jew, LOL I didn't read what you said, but by looking on the photos you posted and reading the title, I see jewish propaganda hasn't changed much since WWII.

And about that new jew, LOL I didn't read what you said, but by looking on the photos you posted and reading the title, I see jewish propaganda hasn't changed much since WWII.

Neither has your stupidity.

Well...that's arguable, WWII seems a bit far for me, don't you think?
el mouhem, let's stop this here.

Well...that's arguable, WWII seems a bit far for me, don't you think?
el mouhem, let's stop this here.

You were born after (since) WWII, right?

Let's stop.

I cam across this map from 1991 on wikipedia while looking for some info on the Civil war (after watching the brilliant " In the Shadows of the City")

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Lebanon_sectors_map.jpg

and the conclusion?

actually I was refering to the average Lebanese whether they shower on a daily basis. For instance in many European countries they don't.


what kind of generalization is that? You cannot be serious...

leh 3atoul niytak 3atleh?

It is a simple question really, it is kind of a random post no? what is you're point?

Boohooo...Do you really think that we are this ignorant? We won't just believe any piece of information like most Americans which you have fooled. Moreover, we know our History, stop fabricating lies. Go back to Israel and savor your last moments in it before we take it back.

You wouldn't know one piece of history if it slapped you in the face. All you know is denial and refurbishment.

It is a simple question really, it is kind of a random post no? what is you're point?

Well yea it is random. I dunno, we always talk about population census in Lebanon, and do they not want to do census because of the dramatic after-war demographic changes. So this map might be more or less what is today's situation..no? Where are all the christians??

Boohooo...Do you really think that we are this ignorant? We won't just believe any piece of information like most Americans which you have fooled. Moreover, we know our History, stop fabricating lies. Go back to Israel and savor your last moments in it before we take it back.

Please go on and tell me why the Jordanians killed 30 Thousand Palestinians and kicked out the PLO. Why did they leave for Lebanon then why did Israel attack Lebanon after they moved there. Please go on and tell me I love to hear how you Arab Nationalists sway your stories.

PS: One more thing, If you want to make peace with us then fine we will accept it but Lets just make one thing clear tho if any Arab country's army steps foot into Tel Aviv Israel will then nuke every Major city in the middle east and the Nukes Israel has now isn't your old time Hiroshima bomb.
http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/136076.jpg
Three times larger than the tzars

Such arrogance!

Such arrogance!

Such hypocrisy.

listen go back to your inbred family's cave and never come back here, You are not welcome!

Well yea it is random. I dunno, we always talk about population census in Lebanon, and do they not want to do census because of the dramatic after-war demographic changes. So this map might be more or less what is today's situation..no? Where are all the christians??

Well it is a fact that christians (in Lebanon) have fallen in numbers, due to lower birth rates and immigration. There is no doubt about that. The shiites by themselves are at least 30% of the population. However I have seen other statistics that show christians to be anywhere from 25%-40%. We don't really know! as for why don't we find out, I am in favor of a national census! I mean why be in denial right? I think the fear is that if the truth gets out it might set tensions, and threatens the religious balance we have in place!

Please go on and tell me why the Jordanians killed 30 Thousand Palestinians and kicked out the PLO. Why did they leave for Lebanon then why did Israel attack Lebanon after they moved there. Please go on and tell me I love to hear how you Arab Nationalists sway your stories.

PS: One more thing, If you want to make peace with us then fine we will accept it but Lets just make one thing clear tho if any Arab country's army steps foot into Tel Aviv Israel will then nuke every Major city in the middle east and the Nukes Israel has now isn't your old time Hiroshima bomb.
http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/136076.jpg
Three times larger than the tzars

Dude, seriously, just stop. Whatever point you are trying to make, you aren't doing a good job of it.

listen go back to your inbred family's cave and never come back here, You are not welcome!

Just ignore him.

Well I don't normally say these things but after reading some of the stupid comments made on this thread I just had to post what I did.

I mean why be in denial right? I think the fear is that if the truth gets out it might set tensions, and threatens the religious balance we have in place!

In denial of what? We already know that we have no religious balance.
But why to look at it this way?
I mean in our current system, politically it is useless; Muslims/Christians will always have these 64 seats each, wheather they are either 20% or 80%.

Well I don't normally say these things but after reading some of the stupid comments made on this thread I just had to post what I did.

Look, I hear what you are saying. There are plenty of "stupid comments" on this thread (as well as on 'our thread', but this is a different matter), but:

1) This is a Lebanese thread and Lebanese people are going to express their opinions on Lebanon and Israel, Palestinian territoriets, etc. Even if we disagree with them, it's their thread and moreover, it's their right to express their opinions.

2) We are coming to their forum (not the other way around), so we should be cognizent of their sensibilities (e.g., of how Israel DID bomb much of Lebanon in 2006, displacing a million people, injuring thousands and killing over a thousand people).

3) Some people on this forum are truely brainwashed (and it's not hard to figure out who those people are) and you simply cannot reason with them. So there's not much point in trying.

4) However, many other people in this forum are very rational and reasonable people. Even if we have strong disagreements (with them) and differences of perspective, you can have a reasonable discussion with them (especially if you can take into account my 2nd point). There's no need to antagonize these people by talking about nuclear bombs, war, etc.

5) And if we are going to share our opinions here, we should also LISTEN (err...take into consideration) the opinions of the people here, including the ones who are brainwashed. I read some very interesting things in this forum and really enjoy getting to learn more about our neighbours.

Sorry if I sound patronizing, but I just hope you'll consider some of the points that I made. :cheers2:

In denial of what? We already know that we have no religious balance.
But why to look at it this way?
I mean in our current system, politically it is useless; Muslims/Christians will always have these 64 seats each, wheather they are either 20% or 80%.

I agree 100% In Lebanon all religions have to be represented proportionally to prevent one sect from dominating another sect. But that's in teory who is to say that our constitution will be respected. After all Hisballah is the most powerful armed force in the country.

Well I don't normally say these things but after reading some of the stupid comments made on this thread I just had to post what I did.

so now you are stupid like the rest!!! :banana:

You wouldn't know one piece of history if it slapped you in the face. All you know is denial and refurbishment.


Well I don't normally say these things but after reading some of the stupid comments made on this thread I just had to post what I did.



We dont tolerate personal attacks at this forum. Consider this your warning. With only three non-OT posts, its appears that you joined this forum just to troll, so you are really walking on thin ice here.

listen go back to your inbred family's cave and never come back here, You are not welcome!


so now you are stupid like the rest!!! :banana:


Not appropriate either guys, let's try and be a little more mature.

Just ignore him.


Thank you.

and the conclusion?

Isn't it obvious? These maps dont mean anything anyway unless we have an official census that includes dual citizens that live abroad.

Isn't it obvious? These maps dont mean anything anyway unless we have an official census that includes dual citizens that live abroad.

well they say that pictures speak a thousand words, but in this case i was left confused and bewildered! :nuts:

We dont tolerate personal attacks at this forum. Consider this your warning. With only three non-OT posts, its appears that you joined this forum just to troll, so you are really walking on thin ice here.

I actually was actually referred to here by a friend on youtube as a forum where we could discuss architecture and landscapes in Azerbaijan but I saw that there was a whole lot more to this site. I came here to see whats up with the Lebanese community since my cousin just married a Lebanese girl a year ago and what I saw was that nearly everyone was bashing and talking shit about Jews/Israelis so I just had to say something.


What do you mean I have only 3 Non-ot posts? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/search.php?searchid=6314495

Kavka3, are you an Azerbaijani Jew?

Ya I am, but I don't live there anymore.
God willing, me and a couple friends are gonna go back and travel around in the summer.
I cannot wait to go visit Quba again, I hear it improved a lot.
Do you still live there?.

I actually was actually referred to here by a friend on youtube as a forum where we could discuss architecture and landscapes in Azerbaijan but I saw that there was a whole lot more to this site. I came here to see whats up with the Lebanese community since my cousin just married a Lebanese girl a year ago and what I saw was that nearly everyone was bashing and talking shit about Jews/Israelis so I just had to say something.


What do you mean I have only 3 Non-ot posts? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/search.php?searchid=6314495

You're cousin is with a Lebanese girl too? i know Zohar has a friend in Israel who is married to a Lebanese woman and I used to date a Lebanese girl too. A cool coincidence. ;)

Ya I am, but I don't live there anymore.
God willing, me and a couple friends are gonna go back and travel around in the summer.
I cannot wait to go visit Quba again, I hear it improved a lot.
Do you still live there?.

Very good. Can you speak our language or? Nice to meet you.

Yes it has. And Quba is Quba, always great. :)

Yes.

Very good. Can you speak our language or? Nice to meet you.

Yes it has. And Quba is Quba, always great. :)

Yes.

Nice to meet you too.
I wish I was able to speak Azeri but unfortunatley only my parents speak it, and only do so when they don't want us to understand what they are talking about :lol: . We mainly speak Juhuri which is Ancient Farsi, azeri and hebrew mixed together.

Ahhh nice you live in Baku. My moms family is from there. I think the street is called Gohgle street. I remember there was a huge circus near there but I couldn't find it on Google maps... maybe they changed the name of the street?.

You're cousin is with a Lebanese girl too? i know Zohar has a friend in Israel who is married to a Lebanese woman and I used to date a Lebanese girl too. A cool coincidence. ;)

Ya Lebanese girls are really nice. I believe her family was from Tripoli , Lebanon but she grew up in Israel.

Nice to meet you too.
I wish I was able to speak Azeri but unfortunatley only my parents speak it, and only do so when they don't want us to understand what they are talking about :lol: . We mainly speak Juhuri which is Ancient Farsi, azeri and hebrew mixed together.

Ahhh nice you live in Baku. My moms family is from there. I think the street is called Gohgle street. I remember there was a huge circus near there but I couldn't find it on Google maps... maybe they changed the name of the street?.

Ty gavari pa ruski?

Its cool. :)

Yes I do but originally I m from Zaqatala, if you have heard of it.

Anyway, enjoy your stay here.

ya gavaru paruski chuchut
:lol:

I can't believe ppl are so racist in Lebanon. I sit with Syrian workers in buses all the time, it's great fun and no one has ever dared harassing me, a woman, alone. You people need to get out of your arrogant bubble.

lol - what do you look like - cuz that would be a major coeficcient in those situations... anyway Im just kidding so dont attack me, just trying to keep it kool :P

well they say that pictures speak a thousand words, but in this case i was left confused and bewildered! :nuts:

His point was to show the "majority".

I actually was actually referred to here by a friend on youtube as a forum where we could discuss architecture and landscapes in Azerbaijan but I saw that there was a whole lot more to this site. I came here to see whats up with the Lebanese community since my cousin just married a Lebanese girl a year ago and what I saw was that nearly everyone was bashing and talking shit about Jews/Israelis so I just had to say something.


What do you mean I have only 3 Non-ot posts? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/search.php?searchid=6314495


Actually, we are very Jew-friendly, just visit this thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=446435



And you have only 3 on-topic posts. Posts in cafe/skybar off-topic subforums do not count. So it looked to me that you joined just to chat/spam/etc.

Please go on and tell me why the Jordanians killed 30 Thousand Palestinians and kicked out the PLO. Why did they leave for Lebanon then why did Israel attack Lebanon after they moved there. Please go on and tell me I love to hear how you Arab Nationalists sway your stories.

PS: One more thing, If you want to make peace with us then fine we will accept it but Lets just make one thing clear tho if any Arab country's army steps foot into Tel Aviv Israel will then nuke every Major city in the middle east and the Nukes Israel has now isn't your old time Hiroshima bomb.
http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/136076.jpg
Three times larger than the tzars

LOL...there's no such thing "three times larger than the tzars..."


Such arrogance is true :(

LOL...there's no such thing "three times larger than the tzars..."


Such arrogance is true :(

Well Alisaleh, at least we are agreeing on this! That guy is a menace who just wants to stir things up. Ignoring him is the best option.

Well Alisaleh, at least we are agreeing on this! That guy is a menace who just wants to stir things up. Ignoring him is the best option.

Totally Agreed.

Actually, we are very Jew-friendly, just visit this thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=446435



And you have only 3 on-topic posts. Posts in cafe/skybar off-topic subforums do not count. So it looked to me that you joined just to chat/spam/etc.


lebanese are jew-friendly as much as they are buddhist-friendly or mormon-friendly...lebanese are mediterranean people open to everyone...no one is against jews, since religious background is not necessarily related to brain capacity or intellect...to me it's more about common sense, being able to tell the difference between what is reasonable and what is not, what is fair and what is not, what is true and what is not and ultimatelly what is decent and what is not...jews are welcome everywhere in Lebanon, but zionist crap is a different issue...

Representation Crisis Drags On as Libya Mulls Tightening Noose on Lebanese Nationals
Naharnet Newsdesk

Arab League chief Amr Moussa is due in Beirut on Wednesday in a bid to reach a settlement over a representation crisis amid reports Libya could tighten the noose on some 20,000 Lebanese nationals living and working in the country.
Pan-Arab Asharq al-Awsat newspaper on Wednesday, citing Arab sources, said the crisis is likely to escalate in the coming days, indicating that Libya could resort to "strict punitive measures" against Lebanese interests and Lebanese nationals similar to Libya's recent measure against Switzerland.

Libya decided to impose a "total" economic embargo on Switzerland, a week after Libyan leader Moammar Qadhafi declared holy war on Bern.

Al-Liwaa daily on Tuesday quoted Arab diplomatic sources as saying Moussa is likely to shuttle between Beirut and Damascus in an effort to ensure "adequate" Lebanese participation in the Arab summit scheduled to be held in Tripoli, Libya March 27-28.

Lebanon has rejected "for administrative reasons" Libya's invitation to the upcoming Arab summit, the foreign ministry said.

"The invitation was received by the Lebanese embassy in Damascus, which is not authorized to receive and respond to this invitation for administrative reasons," the ministry said in a statement.

President Michel Suleiman will not attend the summit following demands by the Shiite community to boycott the meeting.

Asharq al-Aswat said the summit is already "besieged by problems."

It cited, in addition to the Lebanon-Libya standoff, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's nonattendance due to illness as well as the absences of Iraqi President Jalal Talbani who is busy in Iraqi elections and his Lebanese counterpart Michel Suleiman who announced he would not attend the summit out of respect for the Shiite community which demanded a boycott of the meeting.

Lebanon has rejected "for administrative reasons" Libya's invitation to the upcoming Arab summit, the foreign ministry has said.

"The invitation was received by the Lebanese embassy in Damascus, which is not authorized to receive and respond to this invitation for administrative reasons," the ministry said in a statement.

Shiites have been demanding Lebanese authorities to boycott the summit over the disappearance of Imam Moussa al-Sadr.

Sadr -- who is still regarded by Lebanon's Shiite community as a key spiritual guide -- vanished on August 31, 1978, and the circumstances of his disappearance are still a mystery. He was last seen in Libya.

In 2008 Lebanon issued an arrest warrant for Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi over the disappearance of the imam while he was in Tripoli with two companions, who also went missing with him.

Libya has denied involvement in Sadr's disappearance, saying he left the country for Italy. But the Italian government has always denied he ever arrived there.

In 2004, however, Italian authorities returned a passport found in Italy belonging to the imam.

Beirut, 17 Mar 10,

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/newsdesk.nsf/0/85898C54B7E45E19C22576E90024100E?OpenDocument

lebanese are jew-friendly as much as they are buddhist-friendly or mormon-friendly...lebanese are mediterranean people open to everyone...no one is against jews, since religious background is not necessarily related to brain capacity or intellect...to me it's more about common sense, being able to tell the difference between what is reasonable and what is not, what is fair and what is not, what is true and what is not and ultimatelly what is decent and what is not...jews are welcome everywhere in Lebanon, but zionist crap is a different issue...

That's not true, at least according to the recently published Pew Global Attitudes Project (http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/268.pdf see pg. 23 of the document= pg. 25 of the pdf file).

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8554/pewa.jpg (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/pewa.jpg/)

^^ first of all I would be carefull to take for granted a survey carried out by an entity called PEW...saying that 98% of lebanese have an unfavorable view of jews is ridiculous, simply cause i assure you more than 2% of fellow lebanese would run to kiss jewish asses if they were given the chance. Also, it depends on what "unfavorable view" means...for example, i often relate jews to big noses, greed and power thirst, but that doesn't mean i would beat them to death or kick them out of my country...these surveys are crap...its just propaganda by the PEWS to portray arabs and muslims as racists and hate mongers who have an inborn hatred towards poor jews...have the pews ever asked jews on their views on arabs and muslims????

less crap and more realism is what we need...egypt just re-opened a synagoge and lebanon (the land of the terrible hizbullah) is happy to rebuild its first synagoge after it was destroyed by the israeli army in one of its many attacks on Lebanon...have you seen anyone protesting? have you seen any arab or muslim insulting the jewish God or the jewish prophets? no...instead i have seen jews insulting the Prophet (pbuh) repeatedly...go figure!

by the way, have any of you guys received a call from mr PEW asking you on your views on jews? do you know of relative or friend who's received any such call?...shit israeli!!! as much as i dislike israelis i always thought you're smart people...don't let me down...or at least don't take all arabs for granted!!!!

a last point...dammit...i always forget...we re-open jewsih synagoges and the israelis want to bring down our mosques and churches...very ungrateful

How are they bringing down our mosques and churches can you be more specific. Just curious here!

a last point...dammit...i always forget...we re-open jewsih synagoges and the israelis want to bring down our mosques and churches...very ungrateful

What are you talking about? Why should we even want to do that?

And personally speaking, I would love to visit mosques and churches in Lebanon; some of them seem to have really nice architecture. And places like Harissa and the churches in the Qadisha Valley, are like treasures. They should be protected. (I don't know much about Lebanese mosques, other than the huge one that hariri built in Martyr's square in beirut).

by the way, have any of you guys received a call from mr PEW asking you on your views on jews? do you know of relative or friend who's received any such call?...shit israeli!!! as much as i dislike israelis i always thought you're smart people...don't let me down...or at least don't take all arabs for granted!!!!

1) We are definitely not smart. Too many idiots here in Israel. *sighs* Case in point: the way in which Israelis tend to consistently underestimate "Arabs" (i.e., non-Israeli people in MENA).

2) Lol... the poll was conducted by the Pew Research Center, a think-tank based in Washington, DC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pew_Research_Center).
And if you open the link I sent you, at the end of the pdf file, they explain the methods that they used to conduct the survey in Lebanon (e.g., how many people were surveyed, from which communities the surveyed individuals come from, etc).

Are you guys even following the news? You know what these jews are doing in Jerusalem right now eh? The may not be bringing them down, but they're taking control of them, like they are building in synagogue right next to Al Aqsa, and to Jeme3 Ibrahim, and they're not allowing muslims to go to the Aqsa whenever they want. And for those who think Lebanon has nothing to do with what's going on there, I have to say that today more than ever people out there in jerusalem need tadamon men kel el chou3oub el 3arabiyyeh el neymeh. 3am bi kaffo yesta3mro aradeh falastin, baddon yi hajjejo el 3alam kella men honik w yi2oulo enno heydeh ard el yejoud ba3ed alfen seneh, befteker zawwadouha chway.

^^ Israel has destroyed numerous churches and mosques. In fact my dad was extremely close to dieing as he was in a church 5 minutes before in was destroyed by a Israeli rocket. The preist and many other where brutally killed in a house of god. And mosques, dont even get me started; just look at al-aqsa.
It seems ur dilliosuint state of mind still hazes the truth of your country.
And btw Israel destroyed the famous synagougue in Beirut.
Although the greater part of the community had already emigrated after the 1958 Crisis and the Lebanese Civil War, Yasir Arafat's PLO forces who occupied it and the Christian Phalangists actually protected Wadi Abu Jamil during the 1982 Lebanon War. However, the presence of Palestine Liberation Organization forces in the quarter led to an Israeli bombardment that damaged the synagogue itself.

All parties including Hezbollah are for the restoration.
Long ago, there was a decision by the late former Prime Minister, Rafik Hariri, to restore the synagogue and surround it with a garden. However the restoration never took place. The neighboring Talmudic school was demolished so that other new buildings would keep the view of the beach nearby.[8]

Regardless, by the spring of 2008, the Jewish expatriates expressed their desire to renovate the synagogue. They wished to proceed once stability within Lebanon improved.[9] Long afterwards, the expatriates stated that the synagogue, along with the Jewish cementry in Sodeco, would be renovated from October 2008. According to Bloomberg, Prime Minister Fouad Siniora was quoted as saying:
“ This is a religious place of worship and its restoration is welcome. ”

Also, Hussain Rahal, a spokesman for Hezbollah, said his group also supported the restoration of Maghen Abraham:
“ We respect the Jewish religion just like we do Christianity. The Jews have always lived among us. We have an issue with Israel's occupation of land.[10] ”

Fundings had already been received by the 65-year-old leader of the minute Jewish community, Isaac Arazi. Arazi estimated that the synagogue would require up to $1 million for renovation. He managed to raise up to $40,000 for the project, promising more to come. Solidere SAL, civil-engineering company owned by the Hariri family, had also given $150,000 to each of 14 religious organizations that are restoring places of worship in Lebanon, about $2.1 million in all. "We help all the communities," said Solidere chairman Nasser Chammaa.[10][11] Also, in Switzerland, a couple of banks, whose owners were of Lebanese-Jewish roots, had agreed to provide financing. One offered a sum of $100,000, but Arazi declined to mention its name.[10][11]


Dont give me your bs man, especially when you still fail to answer my previous posts. Everything you say is being brought down.

Are you guys even following the news? You know what these jews are doing in Jerusalem right now eh? The may not be bringing them down, but they're taking control of them, like they are building in synagogue right next to Al Aqsa, and to Jeme3 Ibrahim, and they're not allowing muslims to go to the Aqsa whenever they want. And for those who think Lebanon has nothing to do with what's going on there, I have to say that today more than ever people out there in jerusalem need tadamon men kel el chou3oub el 3arabiyyeh el neymeh. 3am bi kaffo yesta3mro aradeh falastin, baddon yi hajjejo el 3alam kella men honik w yi2oulo enno heydeh ard el yejoud ba3ed alfen seneh, befteker zawwadouha chway.

Eslam hal tim.

But you can expect nothing when the all arab governments are now mere American, and Israeli puppets, with a few countries as a exception.

But for Lebanon we can do nothing. We have enough to worry about with protecting our lands from this terrorism being exhibited in Occupied Palestine.

Are you guys even following the news? You know what these jews are doing in Jerusalem right now eh? The may not be bringing them down, but they're taking control of them, like they are building in synagogue right next to Al Aqsa, and to Jeme3 Ibrahim, and they're not allowing muslims to go to the Aqsa whenever they want. And for those who think Lebanon has nothing to do with what's going on there, I have to say that today more than ever people out there in jerusalem need tadamon men kel el chou3oub el 3arabiyyeh el neymeh. 3am bi kaffo yesta3mro aradeh falastin, baddon yi hajjejo el 3alam kella men honik w yi2oulo enno heydeh ard el yejoud ba3ed alfen seneh, befteker zawwadouha chway.

That's a lot of hot air. I think someone is just itching for an excuse to start another intifadah...

Are you guys even following the news? You know what these jews are doing in Jerusalem right now eh? The may not be bringing them down, but they're taking control of them, like they are building in synagogue right next to Al Aqsa, and to Jeme3 Ibrahim, and they're not allowing muslims to go to the Aqsa whenever they want. And for those who think Lebanon has nothing to do with what's going on there, I have to say that today more than ever people out there in jerusalem need tadamon men kel el chou3oub el 3arabiyyeh el neymeh. 3am bi kaffo yesta3mro aradeh falastin, baddon yi hajjejo el 3alam kella men honik w yi2oulo enno heydeh ard el yejoud ba3ed alfen seneh, befteker zawwadouha chway.

are you refering to the jewish synagogue they reopened next to al aqsa which was destroyed last by the jordanians in the 1960's? Is that the one?

Kaniss el kharab, that's its name.

the Synagogue you are refering to is the Hurva Synagogue which reopened. It has always been there. It was destroyed by the Jordanians and now it has been restored. What is so bad about that?

It's not just that.

It's not just that.

well my question was regarding your comments about mosques and churches being destroyed. so I ask you which churches and which mosques are b eing destroyed and so far you can't even come up with one!

melkart,

Many mosques and churches were destroyed by Israeli authorities over the years after they took over Palestine in 1948. In addition to the hundreds of mosques/churches that were demolished in the more than 400 Palestinian villages that were flattened, three 1000-year old mosques in the cities of Yibna (now Yavne), and Majdal (now Ashkelon) were demolished by Israeli authorities.

According to a book by Dr. Meron Benvenisti, of the 160 mosques in the Palestinian villages incorporated into Israel under the armistice agreements, fewer than 40 are still standing. What is unusual about the case of Mash'had Nabi Hussein is that the demolition is documented, and direct responsibility was taken by none other than the GOC Southern Command at the time, an officer named Moshe Dayan. The documentation shows that the holy site was blown up deliberately, as part of a broader operation that included at least two additional mosques, one in Yavneh and the other in Ashdod.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/878851.html

This has long been part of the Israeli's attempts to Judaize the holy land and erase its rich history.

BTW, this synagogue wasn't destroyed by Jordanian authorities in the 1960's. It was destroyed during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

LC when I ask the question what mosques and churches were destroyed I did it in the hope of hearing an answer from Leb FR to see if he had any backup for his info. You see he was refering to the Hurva synagogue as an example of judification. as far as how many religious structures Israel destroyed in the past during it's birth- than I would say I don't know I am sure there were many in that time period!

^^ What i care is that
A. They have destroyed hundreds of churches, mosques, and a synagougue in Lebanon.

B. They are refusing entry for people who want to prey in the old town. Which is a further destruction of their basic human rights.

Representation Crisis Drags On as Libya Mulls Tightening Noose on Lebanese Nationals
Naharnet Newsdesk

Arab League chief Amr Moussa is due in Beirut on Wednesday in a bid to reach a settlement over a representation crisis amid reports Libya could tighten the noose on some 20,000 Lebanese nationals living and working in the country.
Pan-Arab Asharq al-Awsat newspaper on Wednesday, citing Arab sources, said the crisis is likely to escalate in the coming days, indicating that Libya could resort to "strict punitive measures" against Lebanese interests and Lebanese nationals similar to Libya's recent measure against Switzerland.

Libya decided to impose a "total" economic embargo on Switzerland, a week after Libyan leader Moammar Qadhafi declared holy war on Bern.

Al-Liwaa daily on Tuesday quoted Arab diplomatic sources as saying Moussa is likely to shuttle between Beirut and Damascus in an effort to ensure "adequate" Lebanese participation in the Arab summit scheduled to be held in Tripoli, Libya March 27-28.

Lebanon has rejected "for administrative reasons" Libya's invitation to the upcoming Arab summit, the foreign ministry said.

"The invitation was received by the Lebanese embassy in Damascus, which is not authorized to receive and respond to this invitation for administrative reasons," the ministry said in a statement.

President Michel Suleiman will not attend the summit following demands by the Shiite community to boycott the meeting.

Asharq al-Aswat said the summit is already "besieged by problems."

It cited, in addition to the Lebanon-Libya standoff, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's nonattendance due to illness as well as the absences of Iraqi President Jalal Talbani who is busy in Iraqi elections and his Lebanese counterpart Michel Suleiman who announced he would not attend the summit out of respect for the Shiite community which demanded a boycott of the meeting.

Lebanon has rejected "for administrative reasons" Libya's invitation to the upcoming Arab summit, the foreign ministry has said.

"The invitation was received by the Lebanese embassy in Damascus, which is not authorized to receive and respond to this invitation for administrative reasons," the ministry said in a statement.

Shiites have been demanding Lebanese authorities to boycott the summit over the disappearance of Imam Moussa al-Sadr.

Sadr -- who is still regarded by Lebanon's Shiite community as a key spiritual guide -- vanished on August 31, 1978, and the circumstances of his disappearance are still a mystery. He was last seen in Libya.

In 2008 Lebanon issued an arrest warrant for Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi over the disappearance of the imam while he was in Tripoli with two companions, who also went missing with him.

Libya has denied involvement in Sadr's disappearance, saying he left the country for Italy. But the Italian government has always denied he ever arrived there.

In 2004, however, Italian authorities returned a passport found in Italy belonging to the imam.

Beirut, 17 Mar 10,

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/newsdesk.nsf/0/85898C54B7E45E19C22576E90024100E?OpenDocument

Why to spend our tax money on attending a summit where a nuthead will be bashing us and Arabs talking the same words over and over again? boycott!

LC when I ask the question what mosques and churches were destroyed I did it in the hope of hearing an answer from Leb FR to see if he had any backup for his info. You see he was refering to the Hurva synagogue as an example of judification. as far as how many religious structures Israel destroyed in the past during it's birth- than I would say I don't know I am sure there were many in that time period!

Are you kidding me?? So you did knew they destroyed many churches and mosques. You're bad man. Let's say I'm the one who posted LC's link, what would you have said? Finding another excuse for "israel"? You are aware of their disgusting actions, and you still say they have the right to do this and that?

Anyway, there was an amazing debate on OTV yesterday with Magi Farah, between a real Lebanese and a Zionist-Lebanese. It is interesting how we see the same categories in this forum.

As for judification, isn't changing Jerusalem's arab street names into jewish names enough? Oh what, you want their names eh? Leh? Don't you think they'd do it? What about not letting people under 50 enter the Aqsa?

B. They are refusing entry for people who want to prey in the old town. Which is a further destruction of their basic human rights.



Not since yesterday. Jerusalem Police is now offering free entry to the Al Aqtza mosque

Are you kidding me?? So you did knew they destroyed many churches and mosques. You're bad man. Let's say I'm the one who posted LC's link, what would you have said? Finding another excuse for "israel"? You are aware of their disgusting actions, and you still say they have the right to do this and that?

Anyway, there was an amazing debate on OTV yesterday with Magi Farah, between a real Lebanese and a Zionist-Lebanese. It is interesting how we see the same categories in this forum.

As for judification, isn't changing Jerusalem's arab street names into jewish names enough? Oh what, you want their names eh? Leh? Don't you think they'd do it? What about not letting people under 50 enter the Aqsa?

I am a bad man! :lol: (reminds me of a Seinfeld episode) ever watch that?

anyway it doesn't matter who posted the link I am well aware of how many arab towns were destroyed only to be rebuilt with jewish names. I am not disputing that we can have a discussion about that if you'd like. but the point that I wanted to get across is that the opening of the hurva Synagogue should not send an alarm, since it's being reopened rather than replacing an existing christian or muslim place of worship. I am more concerned about the new settlements that are going to be constructed in Jerusalem, than the reopening of a synagogue! and that's all folks! :)

melkart,

Many mosques and churches were destroyed by Israeli authorities over the years after they took over Palestine in 1948. In addition to the hundreds of mosques/churches that were demolished in the more than 400 Palestinian villages that were flattened, three 1000-year old mosques in the cities of Yibna (now Yavne), and Majdal (now Ashkelon) were demolished by Israeli authorities.

According to a book by Dr. Meron Benvenisti, of the 160 mosques in the Palestinian villages incorporated into Israel under the armistice agreements, fewer than 40 are still standing. What is unusual about the case of Mash'had Nabi Hussein is that the demolition is documented, and direct responsibility was taken by none other than the GOC Southern Command at the time, an officer named Moshe Dayan. The documentation shows that the holy site was blown up deliberately, as part of a broader operation that included at least two additional mosques, one in Yavneh and the other in Ashdod.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/878851.html

This has long been part of the Israeli's attempts to Judaize the holy land and erase its rich history.

BTW, this synagogue wasn't destroyed by Jordanian authorities in the 1960's. It was destroyed during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

1) The insinuation that Israel destroys mosques inside Israel proper is for the most part an outright lie. There are cities in northern Israel that by themselves have more than 40 mosques. There are a few roads in Israel where you can't drive more than 50m without seeing another mosque.

2) To the extent that Israel does "judaize" the land (remember, it's the homeland of Judaism, which predates Islam; not the homeland of Islam), it still protects the religious freedoms and rights of Christians, Muslims, Druze, Bahaiis and others. At least we aren't like the numerous intolerant Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, UAE, Syria, or Malaysia, to name a few.

^^ What i care is that
A. They have destroyed hundreds of churches, mosques, and a synagougue in Lebanon.

B. They are refusing entry for people who want to prey in the old town. Which is a further destruction of their basic human rights.

B) Then tell those people to stop launching street battles! When they behave like civilized human beings, they are treated very fairly; when they behave like thugs, then naturally, what do you expect the police to do--- to allow them to trash the entire city and to injure or even kill innocent people?

Are you kidding me?? So you did knew they destroyed many churches and mosques. You're bad man. Let's say I'm the one who posted LC's link, what would you have said? Finding another excuse for "israel"? You are aware of their disgusting actions, and you still say they have the right to do this and that?

Anyway, there was an amazing debate on OTV yesterday with Magi Farah, between a real Lebanese and a Zionist-Lebanese. It is interesting how we see the same categories in this forum.

As for judification, isn't changing Jerusalem's arab street names into jewish names enough? Oh what, you want their names eh? Leh? Don't you think they'd do it? What about not letting people under 50 enter the Aqsa?

1) Leb.Fr what can you tell me about what is going on Israel that I can't see with my own eyes? You talk about destroyed churches and mosques, yet all I see are mosques and churches everywhere! In Tel Aviv, on the most expensive real estate in the country, sits an empty mosque and no one touches it! In Haifa, where 10-20% of the population is Christian, you see churches everywhere and on Christmas, there are lots of nice displays. We are also home to the holiest shrines in the world for the Samaritan, Druze, and Bahaii religions. And people of these faiths can freely practice their religion in Israel without harassment; so stop feeding lies about a country that you clearly know ZERO about and that you have never been too, much less lived in.

Oh don't worry, I'll go there one day. I will pray in Al Aqsa. That day, israel will be a memory.

Oh don't worry, I'll go there one day. I will pray in Al Aqsa. That day, israel will be a memory.

And before that day happens (which it won't), I'll piss on Nasrallah's front door and pelt his house with lard and bottles of alcohol for good measure. Seriously, you aren't going to get a reaction out of me.

^^ LOL I'll be right there with you. :rofl:

Except I wouldn't waste a bottle of liquor on that jackass! I'd save it for a special occasion

^^ 3az il ignorance. Get a life man.

B) Then tell those people to stop launching street battles! When they behave like civilized human beings, they are treated very fairly; when they behave like thugs, then naturally, what do you expect the police to do--- to allow them to trash the entire city and to injure or even kill innocent people?

Hehe if you actually believe this, i say to you go to a cave, and hit your head on the wall. Im still waiting for a reply to the 12 messages that you have so ignorantly ignored. It is not worth a reply because i have replied so much times, and you have scurried away so many times. Once again i state your presence as a political bug on this thread, is aggravating to a extreme level. I am not telling you to leave, because i do not have the right but i say explore other parts of this forum; because until now your presence is very much along the lines of emotionally downgrading.

Oh don't worry, I'll go there one day. I will pray in Al Aqsa. That day, israel will be a memory. \

God willing the criminals, will one day be brought to justice. Inshallah....

Until then may god be with the only frontier resisting against true terrorism.

^^ Can everyone please just stop with all the radical statements?

some fourmers make the Lebanon fourms look bad.... we never had a problem with these sorts of issues when we first started this forums.

Why not just close this thread for a while? theres a good solution to the problem

Beiruti has done that many times, shit wont stop happening there will be always poeple cousing trouble and saying shit.

^^ 3az il ignorance. Get a life man.



Hehe if you actually believe this, i say to you go to a cave, and hit your head on the wall. Im still waiting for a reply to the 12 messages that you have so ignorantly ignored. It is not worth a reply because i have replied so much times, and you have scurried away so many times. Once again i state your presence as a political bug on this thread, is aggravating to a extreme level. I am not telling you to leave, because i do not have the right but i say explore other parts of this forum; because until now your presence is very much along the lines of emotionally downgrading.

I don't have the time nor the interest to go back through 237 pages of discussions to search for those 12 messages. If you want a reply, then just summarize the points that you were trying to make.

^^ LOL I'll be right there with you. :rofl:

Except I wouldn't waste a bottle of liquor on that jackass! I'd save it for a special occasion

Maybe a bottle of cheap Russian vodka then. ;)

Why not just close this thread for a while? theres a good solution to the problem

But Beiruti just did that and we already have this. :-/

I don't have the time nor the interest to go back through 237 pages of discussions to search for those 12 messages. If you want a reply, then just summarize the points that you were trying to make.

Listen bro what point are you trying to make. In the last 5 pages i have directly addressed your points with paragraphs; and you have ignored. In the last 40 pages i have done the same thing. Now it is your right to ignore, but don't come in here and say the same crap; when you are just going to ignore the crystal clear facts me and others feed you right back. There is seriously no point.

But Beiruti just did that and we already have this. :-/

Thanks to who??

I have already said i will only debate with Israeli's on this thread.
And it seems you have some great affection for this thread; as i stated previously.

Listen bro what point are you trying to make. In the last 5 pages i have directly addressed your points with paragraphs; and you have ignored. In the last 40 pages i have done the same thing. Now it is your right to ignore, but don't come in here and say the same crap; when you are just going to ignore the crystal clear facts me and others feed you right back. There is seriously no point.

Dude, all you tell me is that I am speaking crap, that I ignore your responses and that I should go back and look through 237 pages for your responses that I skipped. If you have an opinion worth mentioning/discussing, then surely you shouldn't have any problem reminding me of what you said in those posts.

Thanks to who??

I have already said i will only debate with Israeli's on this thread.
And it seems you have some great affection for this thread; as i stated previously.

Thanks to who? I hope it wasn't due to me. I am not the one who is making the extremist statements here.

A great affection? If that's what you want to call it, well, those are your words not mine. I've made my opinions about Lebanon very clear numerous times in this thread.

Thanks to who? I hope it wasn't due to me. I am not the one who is making the extremist statements here.


Ofcourse you're not; ones desire to piss on Sayyed Hassan's doorfront is a very normal thing to say, while on the other hand the pity for Palestinians is beyond extremism and even goes into different levels of terrorism. -_-

Ofcourse you're not; ones desire to piss on Sayyed Hassan's doorfront is a very normal thing to say, while on the other hand the pity for Palestinians is beyond extremism and even goes into different levels of terrorism. -_-

1) 2/3 of Lebanon's population would probably agree with me on this statement (to varying extent, of course), at least according to this poll: http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/268.pdf

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2969/80978245.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/80978245.jpg/)
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6884/26599080.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/i/26599080.jpg/)
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4108/30716461.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/30716461.jpg/)

2) I was responding, with restraint, to an unnecessarily and unprovoked extremist statement that called for the liquidation of my country. I trust that most people in this forum can make a distinction between a genocidal statement and one which merely disrespects a political figure.

3) Insulting a political figure is not an extremist statement. I certainly could care less if anyone here (or anywhere else) insults/disrespects Bibi, Tzipi Livni, or Avigdor Lieberman.

Peace.

Lol yes, according to the Shalom times?


1) 2/3 of Lebanon's population would probably agree with me on this statement (to varying extent, of course), at least according to this poll: http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/268.pdf

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2969/80978245.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/80978245.jpg/)
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6884/26599080.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/i/26599080.jpg/)
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4108/30716461.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/30716461.jpg/)

2) I was responding, with restraint, to an unnecessarily and unprovoked extremist statement that called for the liquidation of my country. I trust that most people in this forum can make a distinction between a genocidal statement and one which merely disrespects a political figure.

3) Insulting a political figure is not an extremist statement. I certainly could care less if anyone here (or anywhere else) insults/disrespects Bibi, Tzipi Livni, or Avigdor Lieberman.

Peace.

2) I was responding, with restraint, to an unnecessarily and unprovoked extremist statement that called for the liquidation of my country. I trust that most people in this forum can make a distinction between a genocidal statement and one which merely disrespects a political figure.

Your country? You aren't but an occupational force. There is a reason why every Arabic country has "your" country labeled under "occupied Palestine" (it isn't because we're ignorant). Western countries are merely trying to put the burden of such an occupation behind them (acting as if it has always been recognized as Israel) and completely changing what was once Palestine to "Israel."

It is quiet silly if to think that Israel will survive for years to come. Seriously, out of your right mind, what logic is there behind Israel’s ongoing existence if there are countries, groups, and people out there, who are devoted to extermination of the state of “Israel.” To be frank with myself, I was in despair that there ever would be a Palestine again, but thoroughly analyzing the events, wars, etc, I believe it is common sense that the downfall of Israel is nothing but soon.

Day to day, Western countries are finding the suppression and censoring of facts to be a very demanding task which they are not fully capable of fulfill with the likes of the Internet, cameras, a growing population of angry Arab, etc.

One day, (and I remember a previous forumer making this claim) Israeli citizens will wake up and take a look outside, only to see Palestinians everywhere (tick tock, often poked fun at, but the Palestinian population is rapidly growing). For how long do you think you will be able to suppress a whole nation of people? All it requires is a little bit of thinking. Don't forget, Israel is unable to start any wars because of the position it is in, and it is currently chewing its nails off at the thought of even engaging in a war with Lebanon. Now is not the time to cause a third Palestinian Intifadha. Now is not the time to cause a barrage of rocket attacks to key locations in Israel. Never will it be the time to attack Iran!

@alisaleh,

Do you realize that by not recognizing Israel, you in fact recognize that it exists? Israel doesn't cease to exist because you don't want it to. As for its legitimacy, I don't care what you or anyone else thinks. There are plenty of causes that you support that I could also cause illegitimate.

And truth be told, Israel will continue to exist, because its existance is tied to that of every other country in the region. Not to sound apocalyptic, but the moment that Israel is "destroyed", so too will every country in MENA as well as Iran. That much I am certain of.

Let me lay out a few facts on the table:
1) No one in MENA likes the Palestinians (including most Lebanese)
2) Lebanon and Israel have both been involved in various wars for the last 60+ years. Neither country has benefited (except Israel in 1967, which reclaimed East Jerusalem).
3) Both countries have suffered from the destruction of war.
4) Most Israelis don't want war. And most of these people are willing to support peace and territorial concessions.

The longer you or anyone else fights wars with Israel, the greater the chances that you'll radicalize us (i.e., the 90% of the population that doesn't care for war) and desensitize us to the suffering of our neighbors. At the same time, you shouldn't underestimate our will to live. Because everything in Israel is about this instinct of not getting wiped out. The more you challenge this instinct, the harsher Israel's reaction. The less you threaten this instinct, the less that Israel will react. So if you want the Sheeba Farms and you don't want for more war and destruction, then don't threaten this instinct. Nasrallah may threaten Tel Aviv, but this will be his worst mistake; it will open his Pandora's Box.

Again, I am speaking from the "pro-peace" perspective. So I really don't want any of this to happen. But plenty of others are more hawkish than me and at this point, would not think twice about leveling Hizbullah-run towns and cities in Lebanon (and the people inside them) in the event of a future war. Don't give them a reason to do this; if they went into Lebanon without a provocation/justification and started killing people (especially, innocent civilians) and destroying villages, then I don't think that most people would support it. But if Israel is attacked or Israelis are killed/injured/kidnapped by Hizbullah, without any previous Israeli provocation/incitement, then people will see this as a declaration of war on Israel and will support everything necessary to defend the country.

^^
1) No one in MENA likes the Palestinians (including most Lebanese)

You call this a FACT?

except Israel in 1967, which reclaimed East Jerusalem).

CORRECTION: you chased people living there and took it by force.

Why should we ever reward a state that became a state thanks to ethnical cleansing? Such a state with racism should never be recognized! As immigrants murder and kick out the native people and get a state for free or even with extra money :ohno:

Btw, this poll is much to simplistic: yes, most sinni want 7ariri als a leader, but if you ask them about: do you support il-muqawame( the resistence) then you would see rather different percentages.

^^ http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/kavka3/arabsandjewsnumbers.gif

Ethnically cleansed?.... don't make me laugh. If you want to talk about ethnically cleansed lets talk about the 12 million non-muslims who were forced to leave Pakistan when that was being created. Or the hundreds of thousands of people killed by Arabs in Sudan.

You call Israel racist but Arabs can go to schools in Israel, They can have jobs high up in the parliament , they don't pay high taxes, they aren't forced to go to the army( Tho many do join), and they live a peacfull life in Israel with no one bothering them. If you come to any malls in Haifa you wouldn't be able to tell Arab apart from Jew ( Not that Al Jazeera and your state sanctioned news would tell you) etc etc. While in Arab countries it is forbidden by law to sell any land to Jews ......and you call us Racist...:lol:


Meanwhile in Israel....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxkMMDmKXmI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLsGtziE5pI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cgj35Osd0Mk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YoJp9NryA4


Meanwhile in Arab countries.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj1p5vB80EY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AdZKfgZZrs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEmveI2fR-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsw7YXSuTgQ

What Israel does to the Palestinians is what any other country would do in the same situation. When Palestinians throw Stones at French tourists who visit the temple mount Israel closes down the temple mount to stop the stone throwers lol everyone in the Muslim world says this " THE ILLEGAL RACIST ZIONIST GOVERMENT DOESN'T LET PEACEFUL MUSLIMS PRAY AT THE AL AQSA MOSQUE" . When the Palestinians working in Israel tried to over throw the government what did Israel do?. They kicked them out and arrested some. When the Palestinians tried to Overthrow the Jordanian goverment what did they do?. They killed all of the Palestinians.So don't bring up the Palestinian argument. The wars would be finished by tomorrow if the Arabs decided to live in peace .

Why should we ever reward a state that became a state thanks to ethnical cleansing? Such a state with racism should never be recognized! As immigrants murder and kick out the native people and get a state for free or even with extra money :ohno:

Btw, this poll is much to simplistic: yes, most sinni want 7ariri als a leader, but if you ask them about: do you support il-muqawame( the resistence) then you would see rather different percentages.

you're no one to talk! the Dutch were responsible for allowing the killing of many jews during WWII. Neighbors turned against neighbors. This is part of the reason why many of them fled Europe in the first place. Now you want to play hero and save the Arabs. We don't need your sympathy thanks. besides the arabs sold a good portion of the land to the jews, The Palestinians should have accepted the Un Partition of Palestine in the 1940's. Loosers can't be choosers.

In any case what are you going to do with the millions of jews living in palestine now? should we also kick the Australians out of Australia or the Americans out of America! and give the natives back there land!

you're no one to talk! the Dutch were responsible for allowing the killing of many jews during WWII. Neighbors turned against neighbors. This is part of the reason why many of them fled Europe in the first place. Now you want to play hero and save the Arabs. We don't need your sympathy thanks. besides the arabs sold a good portion of the land to the jews, The Palestinians should have accepted the Un Partition of Palestine in the 1940's. Loosers can't be choosers.

In any case what are you going to do with the millions of jews living in palestine now? should we also kick the Australians out of Australia or the Americans out of America! and give the natives back there land!

haha don't tell me anything about dutch history :lol: yes sadly enough there were those who coorporated with the nazi's, just like some palestinians do now, but the big majority was not with the Germans at all. The only resposibles for the killings are the nazi's.

And this is an american who tells us this? While today some kind of crazy fucked in the head guy yesterday said that the sebrenica thing happened because of gays in the dutch army? :lol:

1) 2/3 of Lebanon's population would probably agree with me on this statement (to varying extent, of course), at least according to this poll:


http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6884/26599080.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/i/26599080.jpg/)
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4108/30716461.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/30716461.jpg/)

.



This is what I think of Hezbollah
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/kavka3/1211632_405125.jpg
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/kavka3/1090711_406721.jpg

And this is what I think of people who support them
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt211/kavka3/le12qh7.jpg

:cheers: :)

The Palestinians should have accepted the Un Partition of Palestine in the 1940's.

No they shouldn't have. Nobody in their right mind would agree to give away 56% of their homeland to a people who legally own only 7% of it.

....

No they shouldn't have. Nobody in their right mind would agree to give away 56% of their homeland to a people who legally own only 7% of it.

Jordan was also apart of the "Palestine" mandate. Is that also Occupied territory?. According to you it is.

Jordan was also apart of the "Palestine" mandate. Is that also Occupied territory?. According to you it is.

No, Jordan was an autonomous division of the mandate legally split off from the rest of the mandate only a few years after the foundation of the British mandate. It was agreed in 1925 that it would become a separate state from Palestine following the dissolution of the British mandate.

The 7% Jewish ownership of Palestine does not refer to any lands in Jordan, only lands west of the Jordan River in Palestine proper.

Nice try.

kavka3

Haha you are truly pathetic. Get a life.

Stop polluting our forum; because you never can answer what we reply to you. You just continue to feed us personal insults; maybe this is because you have no aurgument, and just want to start trouble. In no context are you a civilized person, or member of SSC; and i urge a moderator to ban this guy, becuase his is barging into this forum to soely insult our people, and our country. Get a education man, stop your extreme nonsense views.

you're no one to talk! the Dutch were responsible for allowing the killing of many jews during WWII. Neighbors turned against neighbors. This is part of the reason why many of them fled Europe in the first place. Now you want to play hero and save the Arabs. We don't need your sympathy thanks. besides the arabs sold a good portion of the land to the jews, The Palestinians should have accepted the Un Partition of Palestine in the 1940's. Loosers can't be choosers.

In any case what are you going to do with the millions of jews living in palestine now? should we also kick the Australians out of Australia or the Americans out of America! and give the natives back there land!

Even if i completely disagree; Melkart i have sympathy with the Palestinians; but i agree 100 percent that our country should come first, in all context, and terms.

What Israel does to the Palestinians is what any other country would do in the same situation. When Palestinians throw Stones at French tourists who visit the temple mount Israel closes down the temple mount to stop the stone throwers lol everyone in the Muslim world says this " THE ILLEGAL RACIST ZIONIST GOVERMENT DOESN'T LET PEACEFUL MUSLIMS PRAY AT THE AL AQSA MOSQUE" . When the Palestinians working in Israel tried to over throw the government what did Israel do?. They kicked them out and arrested some. When the Palestinians tried to Overthrow the Jordanian goverment what did they do?. They killed all of the Palestinians.So don't bring up the Palestinian argument. The wars would be finished by tomorrow if the Arabs decided to live in peace .
Yesterday 10:40 PM

Yo Yo hero this is not a Palestinian debate playgroud, Beiruti i urge you to take action against anyone who wants to use this thread as a playground to discuss topics that are not Lebanese, are are banned in other parts of SSC.

No, Jordan was an autonomous division of the mandate legally split off from the rest of the mandate only a few years after the foundation of the British mandate. It was agreed in 1925 that it would become a separate state from Palestine following the dissolution of the British mandate.

The 7% Jewish ownership of Palestine does not refer to any lands in Jordan, only lands west of the Jordan River in Palestine proper.

Nice try.
__________

Solid reply Professor; in the Palestinian issue i must say i respect your high degree of research and understanding. It seems you have been researching this topic for ages.

kavka3, those soldies are sick, mentally ill, destroying someone's belongings.

Because the British decided to split Transjordan out of the Palestine mandate since it was promised to the Arabs you are coming to the conclusion that there was a distinct difference between people living in Trans Jordan and the remaining Arabs living in the rest of the " Palestine" Mandate. Since you believe that Jordanians and Palestinians are a seperate peoples and you agree that Trans-Jordan legally came off of the Palestine mandate( Palestinian land) into its own country then you by your logic should be supporting Israel since the UN made that off the remaining land in the Mandate such as the British did with Jordan.

.....Just to make it clear. Palestine was never a country in our Human history. Coming out of the ottoman empire the British split up and gave different monarchy and rulers different pieces of land . the Arabs in the " Palestine" mandate were promised Jordan and the Jews were Promised " Land to the west" of the Jordan river. Then the UN came in and once again split the land up. They gave the remaining Arabs who didn't want to become part of Israel the west bank,Gaza and some parts of the Negev and the rest of the land to the Israelis.... Once again the Arabs refused simply because they believe that they own all the land in the middle east.

In any case what are you going to do with the millions of jews living in palestine now? should we also kick the Australians out of Australia or the Americans out of America! and give the natives back there land!


The creation of "Israel" merely happened 60 years ago, the generation which saw it's creation is still alive to recall the events as if it were to have happened 1 year ago. America is different!

Don't forget, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was gone overnight, and that was just a couple of years ago...

kavka3, those soldies are sick, mentally ill, destroying someone's belongings.

Let them do whatever they want, they were going to bomb the building anyway -_-

Why should we ever reward a state that became a state thanks to ethnical cleansing? Such a state with racism should never be recognized! As immigrants murder and kick out the native people and get a state for free or even with extra money :ohno:

Btw, this poll is much to simplistic: yes, most sinni want 7ariri als a leader, but if you ask them about: do you support il-muqawame( the resistence) then you would see rather different percentages.


I dont think so. I highly doubt many Sunnis would be favorable of Nasrallah or March 8. This poll is very accurate.