Well, deal with it!

lol Ya 3ame Leb:FR khalas, like you really would rather not participate at all and be banned.
But just out of curiosity, why did you close down the elections thread Beiruti, They were discussing thoughts around the elections. But I agree the avatar and the name were refering to a political party, c'mon don't try play it off lol

^^ It was not about the election, it was all EAYOR topics and they could have easily taken the convo there rather than derailing the Elections thread with bickering about 8 vs. 14 and past wars. There was no mature respectful election analysis.

La2 Lebnani, ma fi chi esmo 5alas ba2a. Wel soura wel ketbo mich el ossa kella. Fi enne arraret 7ot ne2re bne2ro lal e5er, ya3ne lal ban, w natera el leyleh li2an 3anjad tafa7 el keil.

^^ Thank you for changing your signature and avatar.

lol Ya 3ame Leb:FR khalas, like you really would rather not participate at all and be banned.
But just out of curiosity, why did you close down the elections thread Beiruti, They were discussing thoughts around the elections. But I agree the avatar and the name were refering to a political party, c'mon don't try play it off lol


:rofl:

Tayyeb...he specifically likes oranges over all of the other fruits, and it is just a coincidence that in Lebanon, it kind of represents a political party, all a coincidence :nuts:
wa personally, I would have put a big picture of a Lemon, because Lemons help to defend your immune system, but you know what they say, they're all Citrus fruits from the same family :rofl:

This man has been banned from Israel for the next 10 years.

Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish American political scientist and author, specializing in Jewish-related issues and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in particular talks about the Lebanese militia Hezbollah and openly supports and praises their resistance


bDe65-nF3FQ&feature

Speak Dr. Finkel, Speak

sounds more like ali is hitting on u. not that there is anything wrong with that. however just as a i suspected we are different. see i am the total opposite of u, I support a political Hisballah party, but not a militant hisballah. Part of the reason why the Lebanese military was weak for so long, because Syria prevented lebanon to militarize. They kept the military weak for there own interests. Also u can't seriously compare Jordan to Lebanon. Lebanon has many advantages over Jordan water, rich farmland, tourism, banking, IT, highly educated trilingual workforce. We have alot of potential to be a solid economy. but in order to do that u have to have a good relationship with the west.
The Lebanese Army was weak long before Syria occupied Lebanon and most of the "advantages" you mentioned are exaggerated and irrelevant to building a strong military. Ethiopia has none of those "advantages" and their military is still strong compared to Lebanon's

The Lebanese Army was weak long before Syria occupied Lebanon and most of the "advantages" you mentioned are exaggerated and irrelevant to building a strong military. Ethiopia has none of those "advantages" and their military is still strong compared to Lebanon's

Guy ur right the economy and the military are two different things, but I was responding to your earlier post about Jordan being dependent on western donations. as for the economic potential in Lebanon, u are wrong we have all the ingredients that would make a solid economy. both western and arab investors have alot of interest in investing in Lebanon. Beirut is geographicly positioned to compete as a regional hub. what we need is stability! that's what is scaring the investors away. if the government subsidized our agricultural sector and Lebanese farmers uped the agricultural standards we can export our products throughout the mediterranean and the middle east. about our weak military it is true that the military has been weak long before syria occupied Lebanon, but they played a hand during the occupation. and our current policy has been to strenghthen the military. ur example of ethiopia is proof that lebanon can also have a strong military. either way our focus should be able to control our territory within our own borders, we don't need jet fighter planes to do that. we need a solid intelligence agency on the ground. also what advantages did i exagerate? please explain!

This man has been banned from Israel for the next 10 years.

Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish American political scientist and author, specializing in Jewish-related issues and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in particular talks about the Lebanese militia Hezbollah and openly supports and praises their resistance


bDe65-nF3FQ&feature

Speak Dr. Finkel, Speak


Ali no one is claiming that Israel is a saint, I am sure i can think of at least a million violations that he israelis have committed against the Palestinian people, including the theft of there lands. The palestinians have the right to resist the israelis. but that's there problem not ours. i am for a two state solution, once that's accomplished hopefully the palestinians in lebanon can move into there homeland. let's keep our focus on lebanon and our own affairs, such as shebaa, ghajar, water resources, etc.

:rofl:

Tayyeb...he specifically likes oranges over all of the other fruits, and it is just a coincidence that in Lebanon, it kind of represents a political party, all a coincidence :nuts:
wa personally, I would have put a big picture of a Lemon, because Lemons help to defend your immune system, but you know what they say, they're all Citrus fruits from the same family :rofl:


Ali innitially i thought beiruti was being extreme about the orange thing, cause it didn't offend me a single bit. even though I can't stand the FPM, i figured he had the right to express himself. but if you read the forum rules it specificly sais no political banners or sugestions of any such logos. given that context we should abide by the rules.

about our weak military it is true that the military has been weak long before syria occupied Lebanon, but they played a hand during the occupation. and our current policy has been to strenghthen the military. ur example of ethiopia is proof that lebanon can also have a strong military. either way our focus should be able to control our territory within our own borders, we don't need jet fighter planes to do that. we need a solid intelligence agency on the ground. also what advantages did i exagerate? please explain!

When I said donations, I meant that they still have to rely on the US to provide military support. They have a weak military and nonexistent military industrial complex even though they did everything "right" by expelling the PLO, signing a peace treaty with Israel, and maintaining close ties to the West.
Economically, Lebanon is indeed in a better position than Jordan. But when I said you exaggerated the advantages of Lebanon over Jordan. They have a highly educated workforce (in fact they have a higher literacy rate), and a more advanced IT infrastructure. Jordan isn't as disadvantaged as you think when compared to Lebanon. The reason that our military is currently weak the reason I would say a nonpolitical HA is currently a necessity. If Lebanon was able to defend its borders, there would be no need for HA. HA hasn't sabotaged the army in any way from strengthening itself. They might criticize the governments dependence on other countries and that criticism isn't absurd. Once Lebanon is able to challenge any invasion of its territory, then its time for HA to step down and hand their weapons over to the military. A non-political HA would be the first step towards goal.

Assaad: Senior army officials do not want confrontation with Hezbollah

May 4, 2009


Lebanese Gathering Option leader Ahmad al-Assaad held a press conference on Monday and said that the attacks against his party members proved that the upcoming parliamentary elections were not transparent, especially in the regions where Hezbollah has a strong presence.

He accused Hezbollah of being responsible for the attacks, because it had transformed into a new occupying power to prevent people from expressing their opinions and confirmed that “these acts will no longer be acceptable.”

He also said that Hezbollah aimed to run in the elections “according to the Iranian and Syrian models.”

Assaad added that Lebanese officials should also shoulder their responsibilities for not putting an end to the attacks against his party members and noted that Interior Minister Ziad Baroud could not achieve anything single handedly. He called on everyone to cooperate with the interior minister.

Assaad said that the Lebanese army and Internal Security Forces should deploy to ensure security in South Lebanon and accused the army of not carrying out its duties properly, because “those responsible for making decisions did not want any confrontation with Hezbollah.”

Assaad said that he had requested an appointment with Defense Minister Elias al-Murr, but “he tried to avoid meeting with me. This is unacceptable, and Murr should shoulder his responsibilities.”

He also said that some were accusing LOG members of being agents for Israel and added “these allegations counted as the biggest favor for Israel.”

“All the attacks and allegations only encourage us, and we are more determined to achieve our goals,” he said.

-NOW Staff

When I said donations, I meant that they still have to rely on the US to provide military support. They have a weak military and nonexistent military industrial complex even though they did everything "right" by expelling the PLO, signing a peace treaty with Israel, and maintaining close ties to the West.
Economically, Lebanon is indeed in a better position than Jordan. But when I said you exaggerated the advantages of Lebanon over Jordan. They have a highly educated workforce (in fact they have a higher literacy rate), and a more advanced IT infrastructure. Jordan isn't as disadvantaged as you think when compared to Lebanon. The reason that our military is currently weak the reason I would say a nonpolitical HA is currently a necessity. If Lebanon was able to defend its borders, there would be no need for HA. HA hasn't sabotaged the army in any way from strengthening itself. They might criticize the governments dependence on other countries and that criticism isn't absurd. Once Lebanon is able to challenge any invasion of its territory, then its time for HA to step down and hand their weapons over to the military. A non-political HA would be the first step towards goal.

More Lebanese have a higher education degree than there jordanian counterparts. about the literacy rate? did u know that they count the palestinians in the camps. that's the only reason why we scored lower. about HA not sabotaging the army; they have carved out security zones outside of state control and that's unacceptable. defending our borders the biggest one is the Syrian border. The Israeli's won't attack a Lebanon without the presence of Hisballah arms. they the Israelis want to illiminate the threat of hisballah along their borders.

Assaad: Senior army officials do not want confrontation with Hezbollah

May 4, 2009


Lebanese Gathering Option leader Ahmad al-Assaad held a press conference on Monday and said that the attacks against his party members proved that the upcoming parliamentary elections were not transparent, especially in the regions where Hezbollah has a strong presence.

He accused Hezbollah of being responsible for the attacks, because it had transformed into a new occupying power to prevent people from expressing their opinions and confirmed that “these acts will no longer be acceptable.”

He also said that Hezbollah aimed to run in the elections “according to the Iranian and Syrian models.”

Assaad added that Lebanese officials should also shoulder their responsibilities for not putting an end to the attacks against his party members and noted that Interior Minister Ziad Baroud could not achieve anything single handedly. He called on everyone to cooperate with the interior minister.

Assaad said that the Lebanese army and Internal Security Forces should deploy to ensure security in South Lebanon and accused the army of not carrying out its duties properly, because “those responsible for making decisions did not want any confrontation with Hezbollah.”

Assaad said that he had requested an appointment with Defense Minister Elias al-Murr, but “he tried to avoid meeting with me. This is unacceptable, and Murr should shoulder his responsibilities.”

He also said that some were accusing LOG members of being agents for Israel and added “these allegations counted as the biggest favor for Israel.”

“All the attacks and allegations only encourage us, and we are more determined to achieve our goals,” he said.

-NOW Staff

yes they are a resistance group alright. they are resisting there own people.

More Lebanese have a higher education degree than there jordanian counterparts. about the literacy rate? did u know that they count the palestinians in the camps. that's the only reason why we scored lower. about HA not sabotaging the army; they have carved out security zones outside of state control and that's unacceptable. defending our borders the biggest one is the Syrian border. The Israeli's won't attack a Lebanon without the presence of Hisballah arms. they the Israelis want to illiminate the threat of hisballah along their borders.

Well the chain is only as strong as their weakest link. Like it or not, Palestinians are in this country and if they're disadvantaged, the whole country is as well.

As for the Israelis, you seem to be too young to remember that they always have an excuse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQgaEMXXpMQ
Same old story. The PLO disarms, HA takes their place. HA disarms, and the army is weak, someone else will their place. Nobody ever heard of Hezbollah in 1982 so its not unthinkable that someone else will take their place.

We already established that the Lebanese Army would ideally be the only ones to defend Lebanon. But the army is currently weak. Placing the army in Dahieh won't make them better equipped so saying thats a form of weaking the army is invalid. But letting them in won't hurt either so I can agree that HA should allow the army in. Currently, the police do patrol in HA strongholds so its not completely out of state control like you think it is. And I also agree with you that guarding the pretty much lawless Syrian border is important.

I gave you my idea about how to disarm HA. We have to do it slowly and build our army so HA can be seen as less of a necessity. How do you propose that HA disarms?

Well the chain is only as strong as their weakest link. Like it or not, Palestinians are in this country and if they're disadvantaged, the whole country is as well.

As for the Israelis, you seem to be too young to remember that they always have an excuse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQgaEMXXpMQ
Same old story. The PLO disarms, HA takes their place. HA disarms, and the army is weak, someone else will their place. Nobody ever heard of Hezbollah in 1982 so its not unthinkable that someone else will take their place.

We already established that the Lebanese Army would ideally be the only ones to defend Lebanon. But the army is currently weak. Placing the army in Dahieh won't make them better equipped so saying thats a form of weaking the army is invalid. But letting them in won't hurt either so I can agree that HA should allow the army in. Currently, the police do patrol in HA strongholds so its not completely out of state control like you think it is. And I also agree with you that guarding the pretty much lawless Syrian border is important.

I gave you my idea about how to disarm HA. We have to do it slowly and build our army so HA can be seen as less of a necessity. How do you propose that HA disarms?

excellent question guy! let me begin by emphasizing that the position of the army is very different than it used to be, before the syrian pull out and before the end of the civil war. keep in mind that the pre civil war era consisted of many armed militias that controled different districts. all those militias have been disarmed since, except for hisballah. now that the syrian army is out, the lebanese army has a chance to reassurt it's dominance over the lebanese territory. to answer ur question about disarming hisballah, unfortunatly the only way I see it is if they disarm willingly and recognize that the state is the sole armed power. If they don't than we really don't have many choices. cause it will end up in bloodshed something i am very much against. I don't think hisballah should be disarmed with force nor do i think we are capable of doing it without paying a heavy price. so ultimatly It's up to hisballah to make that decision something that hisballah has an advantage over us. I see alot of positive that can come up through integrating there party in the political arena. such as building schools, clinics, sporting facilities, etc. but having there own army is out of the question for me, regardless of what there excuse is. cause if we truly were an independant nation we would stick together and strenghthen the state. this way we depend on the vote to make decisions regarding state afairs if we had any differing opinions. but u can't stand in our way and say that u don't like the way we run everytime we are in a disagreement. that's what voting is for. ultimatly the majority runs the country. thats how things gets done, otherwise we'll spend endless debates bickering and won't get anything accomplished. the minority should step aside and let the majority rule. if the minority wins the election than the same goes for us.

yes they are a resistance group alright. they are resisting there own people.

Assaad is a joke, please. He finds every chance he has to attack Hezbollah and propogate his group. It is rediculous to charge a whole group with being responsible for what a group of people do. Moreover, to tell Hezbollah and Amal to give them up (the people who attacked Assaad).

Attacking Hezbollah's communications towers was a big mistake which Sanyoora made. When Sanyoora did this, he had the intentions of instigating something big with Hezbollah, it is impossible for him not to have know this. With this being said, Hezbollah currently does build schools, buildings, and even runs charitable organizations. They run institutions which help the neglected citizens of Lebanon to live. They provide money to widows, etc. Hezbollah has itself well established as a social, political, and military force. Ofcourse, I do agree on the politics, because they protect all of Lebanon, they should withdraw from politics, but nonetheless, they have a bigger role which allows us to overlook this, and it is their resistance.

There is no excuse about resisting against aggressors, it's either you do it, or not. Hezbollah should not need to explain (give excuses) to the people/government to why it is doing whatever it is that they are doing. There is no such thing as excuses in this case, because Hezbollah's stance is very clear, and it is a rational one. They emerged for a reason, and to say that Israel wouldn't attack without Hezbollah's arms, would be ignoring the course of history. Israel, always finds an excuse. I don't mean to find a pretext to continue befouling Israel, but that's reality. When the Palestinian groups attacked northern "Israel," even in the face of Hezbollah, Israel risked to start another war. But notice, their retaliations were very light, Sayyed Hassan had to get on the horn, and publically warn Israel, that Hezbollah would vigorously retaliate. To me, this is the only reason that for those 22 days, Israel did not pound Lebanon. They could have easily done so, their airplanes were probably already on Lebanese territory. Even the Gaza war, in and of itself, was unquestionably instigated by Israel, with a pretext of constant Missiles hitting Israel, when infact, Hamas was retaliating to a recent Israeli air raid which had killed its militants, not to mention the IDF rejecting any medicine/food entering Gaza. The point to make here, is that whether or not you agree, in Israel's eyes, this is a good reason to pound Lebanon. Not to mention that there are a million other scenarios that could happen, just read Lebanon's history, and look at the different reasons Israel has attacked Lebanon. To just say Israel wants peace, sounds like an empty statement, emerging from a desperate situation over the arms of Hezbollah.

I have said this once, and I will say it again. How can you know that this government is the majority supported by the people? Don't forget that it was Hezbollah and Amal's 30% of the population votes which helped March 14 get to where they are today. This same 30% which shifted once Hezbollah and Amal shifted. 30% of a population is not a small number to reckon with, I highly doubt March 14 is/ever was the majority.

I wish, that when it came to foreign aggressors, Lebanon's attitude was like that of Iran's. Sure Iran has an Opposition which passionately hates the government, but when they are attacked, they unite under the flag, grow hate for the attacker, and defend their country and every square inch of their land, indifferent to whether they will live or die.

On the other hand, in Lebanon is attacked by Israel, you have a group of people debating over whether whose fault it really was, you have another group praising the IDF, hoping a specific group will vanished as a result to the attacks, you have an army, who under the command of a politician, makes the army give up its weapons, and serve tea to the invading enemy (how nice…which you like some more sugar Mr. IDF person sir in your lovely visit of Lebanon?), you have another group who still believes that the invading enemy is not the real enemy, but in fact our enemy is another country, and most recently I learned, is that you have people who would rather praise the IDF (& their tactics), over a Lebanese group, which they disagree with (in beliefs). This is really sad, and just shows how "unified" we really are. If so much politics can fit in 6,494 square miles of land, imagine if Lebanon were bigger, CHAOS :omg:

excellent question guy! let me begin by emphasizing that the position of the army is very different than it used to be, before the syrian pull out and before the end of the civil war. keep in mind that the pre civil war era consisted of many armed militias that controled different districts. all those militias have been disarmed since, except for hisballah. now that the syrian army is out, the lebanese army has a chance to reassurt it's dominance over the lebanese territory. to answer ur question about disarming hisballah, unfortunatly the only way I see it is if they disarm willingly and recognize that the state is the sole armed power. If they don't than we really don't have many choices. cause it will end up in bloodshed something i am very much against. I don't think hisballah should be disarmed with force nor do i think we are capable of doing it without paying a heavy price. so ultimatly It's up to hisballah to make that decision something that hisballah has an advantage over us. I see alot of positive that can come up through integrating there party in the political arena. such as building schools, clinics, sporting facilities, etc. but having there own army is out of the question for me, regardless of what there excuse is. cause if we truly were an independant nation we would stick together and strenghthen the state. this way we depend on the vote to make decisions regarding state afairs if we had any differing opinions. but u can't stand in our way and say that u don't like the way we run everytime we are in a disagreement. that's what voting is for. ultimatly the majority runs the country. thats how things gets done, otherwise we'll spend endless debates bickering and won't get anything accomplished. the minority should step aside and let the majority rule. if the minority wins the election than the same goes for us.

I completely agree with everything you said! It would be ideal if HA could lay down its arms and the military was simultaneously able to become a strong but this is unlikely and HA does indeed benefit their areas in building schools, clinics, etc. They don't need to be political to do that. They can just form an NGO wing and remain neutral in political affairs.

I think Lebanon is at a point where HA needs to either give up their weapons (which isn't going to happen soon) or their politics. As the army steps up, HA can begin to step down. If Lebanon does it slowly and with caution, I think it could be a huge success. They claim to have the same purpose as the army so I think its about time they start acting like them. Even alisaleh agrees that HA should give up its politics and concentrate on defending Lebanon. When I say defend, I don't mean going into the occupied territories without permission from the army, but rather, IF the IDF crosses the blue line, HA has Lebanon's permission to engage them under a set and clear policy of hot pursuit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immediate_pursuit
I admit, HA would need to make the first move in implementing this idea and their leaders can be quite stubborn sometimes but in the long run, this is better for them and the rest of Lebanon.

As for Assaad, he may be annoying to HA and Amal and they every right to disagree with his politics but if they want to get rid of this "thuggish" image, they need to make sure Assaad and the LOG is protected in their area. If anyone attacks them in the "security zones", HA should hand them over to the police. HA needs to be professional about this and put aside their biases. For example, KKK rallies in the US are usually protecting police officers some of whom are African American. They protect them from hostile crowds even though the KKK uses language and promotes actions that makes the LOG look like they love Hezbollah!

Attacking Hezbollah's communications towers was a big mistake which Sanyoora made. When Sanyoora did this, he had the intentions of instigating something big with Hezbollah, it is impossible for him not to have know this. With this being said, Hezbollah currently does build schools, buildings, and even runs charitable organizations. They run institutions which help the neglected citizens of Lebanon to live. They provide money to widows, etc. Hezbollah has itself well established as a social, political, and military force. Ofcourse, I do agree on the politics, because they protect all of Lebanon, they should withdraw from politics, but nonetheless, they have a bigger role which allows us to overlook this, and it is their resistance.

There is no excuse about resisting against aggressors, it's either you do it, or not. Hezbollah should not need to explain (give excuses) to the people/government to why it is doing whatever it is that they are doing. There is no such thing as excuses in this case, because Hezbollah's stance is very clear, and it is a rational one. They emerged for a reason, and to say that Israel wouldn't attack without Hezbollah's arms, would be ignoring the course of history. Israel, always finds an excuse. I don't mean to find a pretext to continue befouling Israel, but that's reality. When the Palestinian groups attacked northern "Israel," even in the face of Hezbollah, Israel risked to start another war. But notice, their retaliations were very light, Sayyed Hassan had to get on the horn, and publically warn Israel, that Hezbollah would vigorously retaliate. To me, this is the only reason that for those 22 days, Israel did not pound Lebanon. They could have easily done so, their airplanes were probably already on Lebanese territory. Even the Gaza war, in and of itself, was unquestionably instigated by Israel, with a pretext of constant Missiles hitting Israel, when infact, Hamas was retaliating to a recent Israeli air raid which had killed its militants, not to mention the IDF rejecting any medicine/food entering Gaza. The point to make here, is that whether or not you agree, in Israel's eyes, this is a good reason to pound Lebanon. Not to mention that there are a million other scenarios that could happen, just read Lebanon's history, and look at the different reasons Israel has attacked Lebanon. To just say Israel wants peace, sounds like an empty statement, emerging from a desperate situation over the arms of Hezbollah.

I have said this once, and I will say it again. How can you know that this government is the majority supported by the people? Don't forget that it was Hezbollah and Amal's 30% of the population votes which helped March 14 get to where they are today. This same 30% which shifted once Hezbollah and Amal shifted. 30% of a population is not a small number to reckon with, I highly doubt March 14 is/ever was the majority.

Ali sure maybe many of Hisballah and Amal voted for march 14th, but the point is that they voted for these people to represent them. and if the curent population doesn't support them than let them exercise their right during the upcoming elections. there is no need to speculate on who is for or against them. the elctions will reveal which ideology is in the majority. again that's what voting is for. look at america Bush did many things backward but he was the man in power and he got his way. when the Obama administration took office they have been trying to fix all of Bush's blunders. as for hisballah warning Israel I think this is an exaggeration. I specificly remeber them not taking responsibility and putting the blame on palestinian factions for launching the rockets. Meaning "Please don't attack us we are not responsible we are abiding by UN resolutions."

I completely agree with everything you said! It would be ideal if HA could lay down its arms and the military was simultaneously able to become a strong but this is unlikely and HA does indeed benefit their areas in building schools, clinics, etc. They don't need to be political to do that. They can just form an NGO wing and remain neutral in political affairs.

I think Lebanon is at a point where HA needs to either give up their weapons (which isn't going to happen soon) or their politics. As the army steps up, HA can begin to step down. If Lebanon does it slowly and with caution, I think it could be a huge success. They claim to have the same purpose as the army so I think its about time they start acting like them. Even alisaleh agrees that HA should give up its politics and concentrate on defending Lebanon. When I say defend, I don't mean going into the occupied territories without permission from the army, but rather, IF the IDF crosses the blue line, HA has Lebanon's permission to engage them under a set and clear policy of hot pursuit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immediate_pursuit
I admit, HA would need to make the first move in implementing this idea and their leaders can be quite stubborn sometimes but in the long run, this is better for them and the rest of Lebanon.

As for Assaad, he may be annoying to HA and Amal and they every right to disagree with his politics but if they want to get rid of this "thuggish" image, they need to make sure Assaad and the LOG is protected in their area. If anyone attacks them in the "security zones", HA should hand them over to the police. HA needs to be professional about this and put aside their biases. For example, KKK rallies in the US are usually protecting police officers some of whom are African American. They protect them from hostile crowds even though the KKK uses language and promotes actions that makes the LOG look like they love Hezbollah!

I agreed with most of what u said, but this is where I disagree. It's the army's job to defend he nation, not hisballah. and hisballah currently doesn't need permission from the government to do anything. about Asaad I am not sure if my mind can even grasp all of what u said. but basicly he is a politician running for office, amal and hisballah are intimidating him trying to get him to step down. it's one thing to protest and show ur support, but it is another to attack the vehicle with sticks and stones.

I wish, that when it came to foreign aggressors, Lebanon's attitude was like that of Iran's. Sure Iran has an Opposition which passionately hates the government, but when they are attacked, they unite under the flag, grow hate for the attacker, and defend their country and every square inch of their land, indifferent to whether they will live or die.

On the other hand, in Lebanon is attacked by Israel, you have a group of people debating over whether whose fault it really was, you have another group praising the IDF, hoping a specific group will vanished as a result to the attacks, you have an army, who under the command of a politician, makes the army give up its weapons, and serve tea to the invading enemy (how nice…which you like some more sugar Mr. IDF person sir in your lovely visit of Lebanon?), you have another group who still believes that the invading enemy is not the real enemy, but in fact our enemy is another country, and most recently I learned, is that you have people who would rather praise the IDF (& their tactics), over a Lebanese group, which they disagree with (in beliefs). This is really sad, and just shows how "unified" we really are. If so much politics can fit in 6,494 square miles of land, imagine if Lebanon were bigger, CHAOS :omg:

Ali how did u expect us to unite, when all of a sudden as people were sipping there lattes in beirut cafes, they had to duck for cover, cause hisballah decided that they needed to take hostages. Do u think we were happy to see Israel blow up our bridges and airport, not to mention the devestating oil spill they have caused. we are no israeli lovers, but we aren't blind either. as matter of fact we are a bit embarassed by hisballah's actions. and btw when Israel was bombing Lebanon the march 14th movement condemned Israel and demanded that they immediately stop bombarding Lebanon and asked for there immediate withdrawl. Now that the war is over this is the time to criticise and assess what has happened.

There is no exaggeration over what Hezbollah did. What did you want Hezbollah to do? Lebanese are attacking them, America is attacking them, Israel is attacking them. The only rational thing there is to do is for Hezbollah to acknowledge what happened, and prove to the people that it is not them who are breaking the laws. Moreover, it was nowhere around “please don’t attack us.” I don’t think you saw the speech at all. He did not blame the Palestinians, first of all. He clearly said that it was not Hezbollah, and continued to condemn the launchings, saying it put Lebanon in danger. Then, he continued with saying that no matter who it was that did it, if Israel attacked, Hezbollah would fiercely retaliate, and would not back down. Hezbollah made many threats that day, you’re “please don’t attack me” is nowhere in line to what Hezbollah actually said. Listen to the speech

I agreed with most of what u said, but this is where I disagree. It's the army's job to defend he nation, not hisballah. and hisballah currently doesn't need permission from the government to do anything. about Asaad I am not sure if my mind can even grasp all of what u said. but basicly he is a politician running for office, amal and hisballah are intimidating him trying to get him to step down. it's one thing to protest and show ur support, but it is another to attack the vehicle with sticks and stones.

I know and I believe its the armys job to defend the nation as well. But on the other hand, take for example the fighting that happened last year in Tripoli. Why were the Sunnis armed and why did they continue to "resist" the Alawites instead of sitting back and allowing the army to be their sole protectors? It wasn't their job to defend Bab al-Tebbaneh. Of course it was because the army was unable or unwilling to get involved. Residents of the South feel the same way about Israel.

The March 14th leaders keep talking about disarming HA without providing a suitable mechanism on how and HA is insisting on keeping their arms. This leaves us in a deadlock for which there is no solution and the status quo isn't a bringing about stability as proven since 2006.

Even though its not HA's responsibility to defend the country, they feel as if they have to since they are on the front lines and the army doesn't have the ability to defend them just like the Sunnis of Bab al-Tebbaneh felt they had to protect their neighborhoods. That's why I proposed a starting mechanism for HA and the current government to be able to negotiate on how to disarm. They can work alongside the army on defense issues and not embark on any offensive missions without the army's permission. They should simply defend.
I wish it were as simple as HA disarming and Lebanon becoming a superpower but that's not realistic.

My comment about Assaad was to alisaleh, not you. I was just saying its HA's responsibility to protect the LOG when they are in their so-called "security zone" whether they like him or not. If they demand the privilege of being a "defender", it comes with responsibility and they are failing in those responsibilities.

I know and I believe its the armys job to defend the nation as well. But on the other hand, take for example the fighting that happened last year in Tripoli. Why were the Sunnis armed and why did they continue to "resist" the Alawites instead of sitting back and allowing the army to be their sole protectors? It wasn't their job to defend Bab al-Tebbaneh. Of course it was because the army was unable or unwilling to get involved. Residents of the South feel the same way about Israel.

The March 14th leaders keep talking about disarming HA without providing a suitable mechanism on how and HA is insisting on keeping their arms. This leaves us in a deadlock for which there is no solution and the status quo isn't a bringing about stability as proven since 2006.

Even though its not HA's responsibility to defend the country, they feel as if they have to since they are on the front lines and the army doesn't have the ability to defend them just like the Sunnis of Bab al-Tebbaneh felt they had to protect their neighborhoods. That's why I proposed a starting mechanism for HA and the current government to be able to negotiate on how to disarm. They can work alongside the army on defense issues and not embark on any offensive missions without the army's permission. They should simply defend.
I wish it were as simple as HA disarming and Lebanon becoming a superpower but that's not realistic.

My comment about Assaad was to alisaleh, not you. I was just saying its HA's responsibility to protect the LOG when they are in their so-called "security zone" whether they like him or not. If they demand the privilege of being a "defender", it comes with responsibility and they are failing in those responsibilities.

I just want to clarify some things incase there is any misunderstanding. I am from tripoli and i can asure u The fighting that took place in tripoli in bab al tabbeneh was between armed gangs from both sides the alawites and the sunnis. but keep in mind that the overwelming majority of the city which is 80% Sunni 20% christian is against what happened and against sunni extremists as well. part of the reason why the army was able to arrest so many fugitives is because the locals aided the army in there capture. Yes it took a while for the army to step in and they should have acted immediatly but they did not. not exactly sure why but no one seemed to have given a good reason for it. bab al tabeneh is an extremely impoverished area in the city and is occupied by some lebanese but also many foreigners such as kurds, alawites from syria, palestinians with lebanese citizenship, etc. it's a very densely packed neighborhood which makes up a small fraction of the city of tripoli. so although tripoli seems to get a bad name or is being perceived as a bastion of sunni extremists. it isn't as bad as everyone thinks. It is only in the slums of tripoli where u have some defacto gangs hiding in what is a lawless pocket in the complex urban fabric of that city. during the war some of those elements like al tawhid took control of the city and made our lives a miserable hell. but never again will they succeed, they have been reduced to small armed gangs hiding amongst or inside palestinian camps. everyone in tripoli remembers what those thugs have done in the past, and they are not welcome in any part of that city except in that hill we call bab al tebaneh.

There is no exaggeration over what Hezbollah did. What did you want Hezbollah to do? Lebanese are attacking them, America is attacking them, Israel is attacking them. The only rational thing there is to do is for Hezbollah to acknowledge what happened, and prove to the people that it is not them who are breaking the laws. Moreover, it was nowhere around “please don’t attack us.” I don’t think you saw the speech at all. He did not blame the Palestinians, first of all. He clearly said that it was not Hezbollah, and continued to condemn the launchings, saying it put Lebanon in danger. Then, he continued with saying that no matter who it was that did it, if Israel attacked, Hezbollah would fiercely retaliate, and would not back down. Hezbollah made many threats that day, you’re “please don’t attack me” is nowhere in line to what Hezbollah actually said. Listen to the speech

when one is being attacked by everyone one should look in the mirror and ask why? where did I go wrong? about my comment "Please don't attack us" I was only making a point, obviously hisballah didn't say that per verbatim. but I do have one question regarding ur logo. is that an egyptian pyramid in the backdrop? also u never told me where u currently live? are u in Lebanon? or some other country?

^^Ok how about Tarik Jedidah? Why were Future Movement supporters armed and why did they "resist" the Hezbollah invasion of Beirut instead of relying on the army to defend them?

^^Ok how about Tarik Jedidah? Why were Future Movement supporters armed and why did they "resist" the Hezbollah invasion of Beirut instead of relying on the army to defend them?

when I mentioned bab al tebbaneh I was strictly refering to muslim extremists in that area, not to be confused with furious residents of the future movement who took to the streets yielding privately owned weapons or whatever they posessed. ofcourse I am personally against any private citizen taking arms to the streets whether be it a hisballah supporter or an FM supporter or any supporter of any kind. but a distinction needs to be made between the two groups. also if someone invaded my neighborhood, yielding a weapon there is no prediction to what i might do in that situation. I have to react to saveguard my livelihood. as i remeber the army stood by watching he events and did not intervene, until it was too late. there is a difference between an armed organisation that is trying to enforce there doctorine on others, and a difference between residents safeguarding there neighborhood.

when I mentioned bab al tebbaneh I was strictly refering to muslim extremists in that area, not to be confused with furious residents of the future movement who took to the streets yielding privately owned weapons or whatever they posessed. ofcourse I am personally against any private citizen taking arms to the streets whether be it a hisballah supporter or an FM supporter or any supporter of any kind. but a distinction needs to be made between the two groups. also if someone invaded my neighborhood, yielding a weapon there is no prediction to what i might do in that situation. I have to react to saveguard my livelihood. as i remeber the army stood by watching he events and did not intervene, until it was too late. there is a difference between an armed organisation that is trying to enforce there doctorine on others, and a difference between residents safeguarding there neighborhood.

And thats how HA supporters feel about Israel. They see them as people who invade their villages with no prediction on what they'll do. The army of Lebanon could only stand by and watch and there was even a highly publicized tea incident. Thats why HA feels as if their arms are necessary. To safeguard their homes and villages from Israel. The Zionist doctrine claims that southern Lebanon is theirs and the army is currently unable to stop them from taking it.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Early-Historical-Israel-Dan-Beersheba-Judea-Corrected.png

And thats how HA supporters feel about Israel. They see them as people who invade their villages with no prediction on what they'll do. The army of Lebanon could only stand by and watch and there was even a highly publicized tea incident. Thats why HA feels as if their arms are necessary. To safeguard their homes and villages from Israel. The Zionist doctrine claims that southern Lebanon is theirs and the army is currently unable to stop them from taking it.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Early-Historical-Israel-Dan-Beersheba-Judea-Corrected.png

yes yes i have seen those maps, although the territory is supposed to include jordan and part of iraq not just southern lebanon. besides only jewish extremists believe in that ideology, and they are not in power and make up less than 20% of israel. there is no question however that the southerners in lebanon do believe in the israeli threat which is ofcourse part of the reason why they support HA. but I believe that is plain hysteria on there part. but so far the israelis have only attacked when they were being attacked. and if they truly wanted southern lebanon they had there chance in 1948 and 1982.

yes yes i have seen those maps, although the territory is supposed to include jordan and part of iraq not just southern lebanon. besides only jewish extremists believe in that ideology, and they are not in power and make up less than 20% of israel. there is no question however that the southerners in lebanon do believe in the israeli threat which is ofcourse part of the reason why they support HA. but I believe that is plain hysteria on there part. but so far the israelis have only attacked when they were being attacked. and if they truly wanted southern lebanon they had there chance in 1948 and 1982.

The current PM of Israel celebrates the unprovoked attack of a hotel:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article690085.ece
If you don't consider Benjamin Netanyahu extreme, I don't know what to tell you. The State of Israel itself was founded by unprovoked attacks by Irgun. Lebanon wasn't occupied before 1975 because it was under the control of right wing Christians who were a potentiality an ally to Israel. Even after the pull out of the PLO in 1982, Israel remained in Lebanon until 2000 and aided in the torture of hundreds of Lebanese who turned to HA for protection. They would have annexed southern Lebanon just like they did the Golan Heights if it wasn't for HA. They never had a chance to take over Lebanon because residents were able and willing to resist. Their fears aren't based on hysteria. Its on their experiences from 1982-2000

when one is being attacked by everyone one should look in the mirror and ask why? where did I go wrong? about my comment "Please don't attack us" I was only making a point, obviously hisballah didn't say that per verbatim. but I do have one question regarding ur logo. is that an egyptian pyramid in the backdrop? also u never told me where u currently live? are u in Lebanon? or some other country?

He lives in the good ol USA - the country he loves to hate. Ironic, huh?

He lives in the good ol USA - the country he loves to hate. Ironic, huh?


LMAO !! Nowonder he's been hiding that info from me. It's like me immigrating to Iran. I only asked, cause i remeber him specifically refering to america as my beloved country. but now I realize he is an american too. It's not such a bad country after all. what state Ali?

The current PM of Israel celebrates the unprovoked attack of a hotel:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article690085.ece
If you don't consider Benjamin Netanyahu extreme, I don't know what to tell you. The State of Israel itself was founded by unprovoked attacks by Irgun. Lebanon wasn't occupied before 1975 because it was under the control of right wing Christians who were a potentiality an ally to Israel. Even after the pull out of the PLO in 1982 like the agreement said, Israel remained in Lebanon until 2000 and aided in the torture of hundreds of Lebanese who turned to HA for protection. They would have annexed southern Lebanon just like they did the Golan Heights if it wasn't for HA. They never had a chance to take over Lebanon because residents were able and willing to resist. Their fears aren't based on hysteria. Its on their experiences from 1982-2000

let me put this lightly, I can't stand BB Netanyahu!!! can't stand is an understatement in this context. when i speak of jewish extremism i am refering to the jews who support the ideology of that map u showed me earlier. netanyahu is politicly an extremist but not religiously. the king David Hotel incident occured before the creation of israel, is that all u can come up with. btw what happened at the King David Hotel is terrorism indeed as far as I am concerned. and i don't support such actions. Southern lebanon was mainly controlled by the SLA under Saad Haddad. only 2000 israelis were stationed there. No settelements were ever built. and the destruction of the land by mining and stealing our soil was eveidence that they had no intention in keeping that land. they occupied it cause they didn't want syria controlling that part of lebanon, and they wanted to stop rocket attacks by palestinian factions.

let me put this lightly, I can't stand BB Netanyahu!!! can't stand is an understatement in this context. when i speak of jewish extremism i am refering to the jews who support the ideology of that map u showed me earlier. netanyahu is politicly an extremist but not religiously. the king David Hotel incident occured before the creation of israel, is that all u can come up with. btw what happened at the King David Hotel is terrorism indeed as far as I am concerned. and i don't support such actions. Southern lebanon was mainly controlled by the SLA under Saad Haddad. only 2000 israelis were stationed there. No settelements were ever built. and the destruction of the land by mining and stealing our soil was eveidence that they had no intention in keeping that land. they occupied it cause they didn't want syria controlling that part of lebanon, and they wanted to stop rocket attacks by palestinian factions.

2000 troops is a significant amount when your talking about only 328 square miles of land. That's 6 troops per square mile (not including the SLA) and that's equivalent to the number of troops/square mile the US has in Afghanistan. There were mines and no settlements as well in the Golan Heights for almost 20 years after the occupation. There was an agreement in 1982 that if the PLO (the group Israel held responsible for the rocket attacks) left, Israel would leave as well. The PLO left for Tunisia, Israel didn't budge. 3 years later, Hezbollah formed.

Since you hate Netanyahu, I'm sure you know that he is against the peace plan and supports increasing the number of settlements in the West Bank and Golan Heights which is against international law. Religious or not, he's a Jewish extremists. Even some secular Jews also hold the belief that the Land of Israel is all theirs.

There are many other terror attacks by Irgun and the "Jewish resistance" but you can look that up yourself.

2000 troops is a significant amount when your talking about only 328 square miles of land. That's 6 troops per square mile (not including the SLA) and that's equivalent to the number of troops/square mile the US has in Afghanistan. There were mines and no settlements as well in the Golan Heights for almost 20 years after the occupation. There was an agreement in 1982 that if the PLO (the group Israel held responsible for the rocket attacks) left, Israel would leave as well. They didn't. 3 years later, Hezbollah formed.

Since you hate Netanyahu, I'm sure you know that he is against the peace plan and supports increasing the number of settlements in the West Bank and Golan Heights which is against international law. Religious or not, he's a Jewish extremists. Even some secular Jews also hold the belief that the Land of Israel is all theirs.

There are many other terror attacks by Irgun and the "Jewish resistance" but you can look that up yourself.

yes I am aware of Netanyahu's stance against the peace process. which is why I am not a fan. I am sure u can find plenty of things that the israelis have committed against the arabs, I was surprised that u picked the king david hotel incident cause it was such a long time ago. but lebanon will remain lebanon I don't fear either an israeli or syrian takeover. cause both nations realize that annexing part or all of Lebanon ain't gonna happen. and no it has nothing to do with HA.

but lebanon will remain lebanon I don't fear either an israeli or syrian takeover. cause both nations realize that annexing part or all of Lebanon ain't gonna happen. and no it has nothing to do with HA.
and thats my point. If HA goes away, someone else will take their place

and thats my point. If HA goes away, someone else will take their place

I disagree the lebanese army would take there place, cause think about it if there is no other armed element that will compete with the army, the army will flourish and be strenghthened assuming that the Lebanese people will support them.

I disagree the lebanese army would take there place, cause think about it if there is no other armed element that will compete with the army, the army will flourish and be strenghthened assuming that the Lebanese people will support them.
And this takes us right back to the examples I've been using. The Jordanian military has no competition, full support of the citizens, peace with Israel, close ties with the West, and still no flourishing or strengthened military. Ethiopia on the other hand has troubled relations with the West, many heavily armed groups (OLF, ONLF, EPPF, etc) within its territory who are actively fighting against the army and their military is strong. The military doesn't necessarily work like a business in which those with the least competition does best. In fact, a case could be made that it works in the opposite way. An army that
as i remeber the army stood by watching he events and did not intervene, until it was too late.
and
took a while for the army to step in and they should have acted immediatly but they did not. not exactly sure why but no one seemed to have given a good reason for it.
is certainly not an army capable of stopping people who will certainly try to flair tensions along the border and won't be able to defend Lebanon in the event of an invasion alone

Jordan doesn't require a strong military, although there military is far more equiped than ours. they also have a good handle on the local population. It's been stable for years, so not sure why u are using Jordan as an example here.

Ethiopia does have good relations with the west. at least the government does. and when u say that there military is strong i guess that depends on whom u ask. although they do have a good handle in there regional sphere.

as for ur example about our military standing by and doing nothing in regards of tareq al jadid they feared a hisballah reprisal and took a neutral approach. that's why i don't want hisballah armed. if HA was non existent the military wouldn't have stood by and watched. if The lebanese people supported there army, than the army wouldn't be caught in the midle trying to prevent a civil war. Imagine if the army tried to put a stop to it and fought off hisballah. what do u think would happen?

as for the last comment better late than never. lol.

In the case of the beirut clashes there neighborhood was being attacked so they were courageous enough to fight back.

In case of the jabal al mohsen clashes; this is an alawite neighborhood lol. and the alawites started the fight.

but I really do appreciate u taking ur time to provide me with some footage. although it wasn't really clear or a proof to what was happening.

Yes in my opinion and from what i saw the Alwaites did start the fight. I am not being biased here but they actually did from what i witnessed. They suddenly start lobbing hand grenades and when the people of Bab El Tebanieh respond, Tripoli turn into "Sniper\RPG Land". Suddenly Tripoli turns into one big ball of fire. Militia Men take to the streets and Tripoli "shutsdown" and there no cars to be seen in any streets. I remember from personal experience being stopped at a checkpoint in the summer set up by Sunni Militia Men to tell you to turn around because the Alwaities were sniping off ANYBODY who came into there view.

THERE PHOTOS WERE TAKEN BY ME BECAUSE I WITNESSED ALL OF THIS:

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss61/budkheir/IMG_0169.jpg

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss61/budkheir/IMG_0079.jpg

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss61/budkheir/IMG_0080.jpg

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss61/budkheir/IMG_0325.jpg

^^u were that close ?? :eek:

Yep..the WHOLE SUMMER...at night i could see little red streaks barley missing our building... and all you hear during the day are gunshots and our building was almost in a direct view of Bab El Tebaneih and Jabal Mehsen. Theres only a little green field separating me from them

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss61/budkheir/asdadsmic.jpg

the buildings infront of my house are like 4 stories tall so our building was the most exposed and the tallest (13 floors)

^^ :eek: that must have been scary!!!

Yep..the WHOLE SUMMER...at night i could see little red streaks barley missing our building... and all you hear during the day are gunshots and our building was almost in a direct view of Bab El Tebaneih and Jabal Mehsen. Theres only a little green field separating me from them

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss61/budkheir/asdadsmic.jpg

the buildings infront of my house are like 4 stories tall so our building was the most exposed and the tallest (13 floors)

Thank you for sharing! Our hearts go to all those innocent civilians who suffer in the line of fire!
whrever they may be!

What was Ahmad fatfoota's excuse about the tea incident? The Israelis wanted sweater tea :rofl: Tfeee 3leih

That wasn't the only controversy during the war. It also appears that some Army battalions were ordered to confiscate Hezbollah's weapons/stall Hezbollah's transportation of weapons to the south (their strong hold). Nonetheless, the Army helped Hezbollah during the war.



c-ydZUQu7MY

Yes, I live in America. As "Ironic" as it does seem, I am solving this problem, don't worry. I am moving to Lebanon inshallah.

Only because I live here, doesn't mean I have to support their foreign policies, and contrary to popular belief, most of the residents (atleast from what I know of) don't support Israel's attacks nor their own armies attacks on Iraq or Afghanistan.

Also, as a person living here, I see it as a priority to see what America really wants with my country, instead of listening to Hilary Clinton's "transparent" speeches on Lebanon. I don't watch al manar (remember it's blocked here).

I wasn't hiding where I live, for I have been debating all of the users in this thread, and never have I hesitated to tell them where I live.

I am currently in New York

BEIRUT (AFP) — Lebanese authorities have arrested six more people on suspicion of spying for Israel, taking to 16 the number of suspected spies arrested since January, an army spokesman told AFP on Monday.

The latest arrests include a policeman and his wife, who were taken into custody late on Sunday in Beirut's southern suburbs, a stronghold of the Shiite militant group Hezbollah which fought a devastating 2006 war with Israel.

On Sunday, three suspects were arrested in the village of Habboush in south Lebanon "and initial indications show that they were spying for Israel," a security official said.

Two Lebanese men and a Palestinian were arrested on April 25 also on suspicion of spying for Israel and were linked by the authorities to a retired general security officer arrested for spying earlier that month.

Former brigadier general Adib al-Aalam was arrested along with his wife Hayat Saloumi and nephew Joseph Al-Aalam and charged in April with espionage -- a charge punishable by death in Lebanon.

The three are accused of informing Israel about Lebanese and Syrian military and civilian sites "with the aim of facilitating Israeli attacks," a judicial official said last month.

Aalam was arrested at his office near Beirut on April 14 along with his wife. He ran a housekeeping service which he allegedly used as a front to spy for Israel.

Marwan Fakih was arrested in south Lebanon in February.

^^

Now let's see Banki Moon condemning these violations...

lol... I was nick named Mossad from some of my friends because I was the only March 14 out of them.

BEIRUT (AFP) — Lebanese authorities have arrested six more people on suspicion of spying for Israel, taking to 16 the number of suspected spies arrested since January, an army spokesman told AFP on Monday.

The latest arrests include a policeman and his wife, who were taken into custody late on Sunday in Beirut's southern suburbs, a stronghold of the Shiite militant group Hezbollah which fought a devastating 2006 war with Israel.

On Sunday, three suspects were arrested in the village of Habboush in south Lebanon "and initial indications show that they were spying for Israel," a security official said.

Two Lebanese men and a Palestinian were arrested on April 25 also on suspicion of spying for Israel and were linked by the authorities to a retired general security officer arrested for spying earlier that month.

Former brigadier general Adib al-Aalam was arrested along with his wife Hayat Saloumi and nephew Joseph Al-Aalam and charged in April with espionage -- a charge punishable by death in Lebanon.

The three are accused of informing Israel about Lebanese and Syrian military and civilian sites "with the aim of facilitating Israeli attacks," a judicial official said last month.

Aalam was arrested at his office near Beirut on April 14 along with his wife. He ran a housekeeping service which he allegedly used as a front to spy for Israel.

Marwan Fakih was arrested in south Lebanon in February.

And March 8 saying internal security forces work for israel :lol:

What was Ahmad fatfoota's excuse about the tea incident? The Israelis wanted sweater tea :rofl: Tfeee 3leih

That wasn't the only controversy during the war. It also appears that some Army battalions were ordered to confiscate Hezbollah's weapons/stall Hezbollah's transportation of weapons to the south (their strong hold). Nonetheless, the Army helped Hezbollah during the war.



c-ydZUQu7MY

yeah the army should keep up the good work and confiscate more weapons.

Yes, I live in America. As "Ironic" as it does seem, I am solving this problem, don't worry. I am moving to Lebanon inshallah.

Only because I live here, doesn't mean I have to support their foreign policies, and contrary to popular belief, most of the residents (atleast from what I know of) don't support Israel's attacks nor their own armies attacks on Iraq or Afghanistan.

Also, as a person living here, I see it as a priority to see what America really wants with my country, instead of listening to Hilary Clinton's "transparent" speeches on Lebanon. I don't watch al manar (remember it's blocked here).

I wasn't hiding where I live, for I have been debating all of the users in this thread, and never have I hesitated to tell them where I live.

I am currently in New York

yes but u could have immigrated anywhere else like to one of the countries that u esteem so much. I don't agree with every american policy either, but I don't accuse others and refer to them as being beloved americans as if it is such a bad thing, when u yourself reside in this great country and bnefit from it's fruits.

^^

Now let's see Banki Moon condemning these violations...

oh like we didn't already know that israel is spying on us. that's a shocker!

^^ All countries spy on each other, even allies. I know the U.S. spies on the UK, and Israel even spies on the US, etc. This is normal practice, not that it is okay.

Alisaleh, your avatar has been removed due to violation of the forum rules. If you repeat this offense you will be given an infraction.

A curious time to find so many “spies"


NOW Staff , May 5, 2009


More information about the “spies” arrested recently is needed.
The number of “Israeli spies” arrested in Lebanon in the past three weeks – 15 since April 14 – is shocking, and the information released about the accused is woeful. Espionage is a serious crime, and those who commit it are traditionally put to death. We call on both the state and Hezbollah to be more forthcoming with information on these individuals, especially since the discovery of these new “spy rings” is so conveniently timed.

We doubt there is a coincidence between Egypt’s accusations against Hezbollah in early April and the arrest of the first round of alleged spies on April 14. It seems plausible that Hezbollah maneuvered to protect itself from accusations of plotting against fellow Arabs by saying it was merely trying to help the Palestinians in Gaza – the party did not opine on the value of only sending weapons to a starving population, however.

While Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak may not be the most popular ruler in the Arab world, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah would no doubt lose some of the widespread support he enjoys among Arabs if seen as trying to depose Egypt’s head of state. The party needed a distraction.

Spies are sexy, and their capture makes headlines. The discovery of spy rings casts Hezbollah as a victim, besieged by the neighborhood bully. That becomes the topic of conversation instead of what Hezbollah may or may not have been up to in Egypt.

It is also difficult to ignore how close to the parliamentary elections these “secret agents” are being uncovered. Domestically, Hezbollah and its allies benefit from the conversation focusing on the party as a victim after its brutal show of force nearly one year ago.

The outcome of this election rests on the strength of Michel Aoun, and highlighting the “weakness” of a Hezbollah plagued by spies no doubt softens the party’s image in the minds of undecided Christian voters. If anyone stands to benefit electorally from all this espionage business right before the election, it’s Hezbollah’s main Christian ally.

Without information on how these “spies” were discovered and how the investigation was conducted, we can only guess. Like so much in this country, the rounding up of all these alleged undercover agents has been an opaque process that citizens are expected to blindly trust.

We do know that all of the “spies” arrested in 2009 except one – Marwan Faqih, Hezbollah’s apparently disloyal car dealer arrested in February –were apprehended by the Information branch of the Internal Security Forces.

The Information branch is one of the organs of the Lebanese security apparatus Hezbollah has not infiltrated. That said, as a retired member of the security services told NOW, there is no doubt that any investigation into spies within the party was initiated by the party. It seems Hezbollah fed the Information branch intelligence to avoid investigating alone and potentially being accused of fabricating this spy tale.

Using the Information branch in such a way also creates the false impression that Hezbollah defers in any way to state authority – again an attempt to soften the image it forged for itself last May in advance of elections. But why the Information branch went along on this is unclear.

The 15 people arrested in the last three weeks on accusations of espionage may well turn out to be spies. Without a full explanation of this investigation, we are left to speculate and cast a curious eye at the seemingly perfect timing of these recent discoveries.

How is this a violation of the forum rules? The Yellow flag is on the side, the Lebanese flag is the main flag

How is this a violation of the forum rules? The Yellow flag is on the side, the Lebanese flag is the main flag

lol I don't think the flag was the issue. more like the backdrop!

^^ The yellow flag IS an issue and it is enough reason. What part of non-political symbols do you not understand?

It was yellow, but the Hezbollah symbol wasn't visible.

^^ Well just like orange, we know what it means. Anyway, I received a complaint from another forumer that it was offensive, especially to Egyptians.

lol... I was nick named Mossad from some of my friends because I was the only March 14 out of them.

lol !:banana:
that's exactly what's happening with me
i'm the only with 14march between all my freinds
so i was nicknamed "JASOS YAHODI"
but it was too long to pronounce so they shortened it to "JASODI":nuts:

^^ Well just like orange, we know what it means. Anyway, I received a complaint from another forumer that it was offensive, especially to Egyptians.

Euh, Beiruti, the sky in your avatar is blue. We know what it represents, and I find it offensive. Sorry mod, but you're breaking your own rules.

Oh come on! Are you serious now? "we know what it means?" Great, so we can't use blue, red, yellow, orange, green. What's left?

^^ It was a flag, not the sun. Besides, it was more about the intention. You didnt use that avatar because you love oranges - and we all know that.

LOL I know. I think next time I'll put lemons :lol:

^^ Well HA doesnt call themselves the "Lemon Party" but Aoun does call his party "orange" - anyway I didnt really care much about the avatar, I was more upset with "ORANGE!" in your signature.

Well, I don't support Aoun anyway.

^^ Then why would you do all that? Just to provoke others?

Bingo!

well that was stupid

BINGO! lol.....but most of my friends would do the same just to get a reaction out of people. I don't understand it but I'm not surprised. W/E

It is often called boredom. It is a form of self mutulation.

well no I mean there is something to be said about playing devils advocate right?

who knows?

Mabrouk Jayme.

LEISH 3am betbarklo? shou rebe7?

^^ Well just like orange, we know what it means. Anyway, I received a complaint from another forumer that it was offensive, especially to Egyptians.


Um...I am sorry, but my picture, in no way, was/is/will be offensive

I find this ridiculous, couldn't you have reasoned with that person? The Egytians? WTH do they even have to do with this? yroo7o yza7to 3al forum taba3on, shoo hal manti2 wallah? Comon Beiruti...I am sure you could have reasoned with that person...It is my country, not his/her's, I could support whatever group I want, but the Hezbollah sign didn't even show, it was a group of soldiers holding a Lebanese flag....inoo 3anjad, especially to Egyptians? Is that the best you could come with?

I am requesting for my right, in the forum of my country, and not the egyptian forum, to put the picture back up there.

If an egptian tourist comes to Lebanon, and Wallahi he doesn't like the Hezbollah flags up in a Hezbollah neighborhood, he is the visiter, will he request for the flags to be put down?

Again I will put emphasis on the fact that the Hezbollah flag didn't even show.

yeah the army should keep up the good work and confiscate more weapons.


Um...thats a disgrace...during a war...to take...the...

you know what, forget it, I am not going to try to reason with you

you'd probably debate me over a mathematical theorem

inoo 3anjad? What happened to the I wasn't born anti-Hezbollah you know?

your attitude towards events prove otherwise

run Hassoun run...resist against the dialy Syrian aggressions...

I JUST LOST MY APPETITE :ohno:

Alisaleh, your avatar has been removed due to violation of the forum rules. If you repeat this offense you will be given an infraction.


Violation of the forum rules? I never knew there was a rule which doesn't allow you to unintentionally "offend" egyptians

Ok I never wanted to step into this nor even opening this thread from all your political crap you guys cause all over the forum (and by you I am not directly specifying to a certain forumer, but someone who starts, finishes, is part of, or anything related to a provocative conversation.)

Alisaleh, if you are not comfortable with the rules of this forum, you are more than welcome to either move yourself to another forum or keep things the way they are. NO POLITICAL ASSOCIATION IN THIS FORUM MEANS NO POLITICAL ASSOCIATION, POINT FINALE. You are well aware that the yellow background IS provocative whether he was an Egyptian, Lebanese 7ata Chinese iza badak. Yes it is your right, however your rights has limits, and if you are not comfortable with the rules of this forum, than theirs the log out button on top right of this page and an address bar you can rightfully go on and type yourself a new website.

Leb.Fr shou badi elak, i've seen children but as childish as yourself, it's sad to even associate yourself with the French... what an Irony. You have told us countless of times that you will never return to this forum after a certain incident, yet we still see you the next day posting or debating on the same topic. I do appreciate all your posts and all your courage to show Lebanon both in the international forum and here, but that doesn't hide the fact that small things you do to provoke forumers to respond in a certain way results in a Leb.Fr gone mad spree for something you started because you do not agree on something he or she responded.

Hassoun, where do I start? Sometimes I ask myself whether or not you know what you are talking about or if you think before you say something. You're like Leb.Fr but the March 14 version, and may be worse might I add. I've deleted or edited, or so tried to delete and edit, countless of your comments before anyone reads them, poison thoughts that should be kept to yourself before a civil war erupts in this forum, yet when I am too late, we (Beiruti and myself) end up cleaning the whole mess left behind. You guys just don't understand how badly you ruin my day (and i'm sure Beiruti's as well) when we come back from school/work/day out with friends etc. to open SSC and start cleaning and deleting all the mess you guys create.

Melkart, you are more than welcomed in this forum, but please make sure you do read all the forum rules (and that applies to everyone). You are new to this forum and you have already entered into poisonous debates. How does this look like to us Moderators? This doesn't only apply to yourself, there's Guy, Rabih and others as well. If you come to this forum only to defend your stance or a certain political group, than you will be given and infraction or be brigged.

Last but not least, I do not want to see the face of Nesrallah, Hariri, Jumblatt, Wala Nabih Berri or anyone that is related to a political group, whether it is in the news section, this thread or elsewhere. They are ALL, each and everyone of them, March 8, March 14, a disgrace to Lebanon and us Lebanese. KELLON, and not one is left out, akhra min ba3don. You guys just don't understand that they are all the ROOT of our problems.

No one justifies for whatever they have done, for simply I will not respond. Consider yourselves warned, ANYONE who provokes, tries to justify something they KNOW they have done wrong, disses one group (or groups) and/or does nothing to stop their non sense on this forum, will NOT result in an infraction nor a brig, but a PERMANENT BAN. Again, consider yourselves warned. There will be NO EXCEPTIONS.

... K H A L A S

A curious time to find so many “spies"


These don't seem like "spies" to me. More like informants. Could be just a coincidence and the sign of a strengthening intel

Jordan doesn't require a strong military, although there military is far more equiped than ours. they also have a good handle on the local population. It's been stable for years, so not sure why u are using Jordan as an example here.

Ethiopia does have good relations with the west. at least the government does. and when u say that there military is strong i guess that depends on whom u ask. although they do have a good handle in there regional sphere.

as for ur example about our military standing by and doing nothing in regards of tareq al jadid they feared a hisballah reprisal and took a neutral approach. that's why i don't want hisballah armed. if HA was non existent the military wouldn't have stood by and watched. if The lebanese people supported there army, than the army wouldn't be caught in the midle trying to prevent a civil war. Imagine if the army tried to put a stop to it and fought off hisballah. what do u think would happen?

as for the last comment better late than never. lol.

I'm using it as an example because even though its "strong" its only because of foreign donations of weaponry. Even though they did everything "right" they aren't truly independent. If that support of the West is gone, they are helpless and the monarchy is facing growing anger. It may be stronger than Lebanon but that's not saying much.

Ethiopia on the other hand, relies on itself and accepts aid when it comes but doesn't rely on it like Jordan and Lebanon does. They may currently have a lukewarm relationship with the West but its been up and down the past 30 years and the strength of their military hasn't been affected by its relations with other countries but rather how much effort the government in power invested into it. I think Ethiopia's way of militarization is a better way for Lebanon

An army thats afraid to take sides in defending its citizens isn't an army that can be taken seriously which strengthens my point that if HA disarms before the army is strong, someone else will take their place. Its only natural and has manifested itself with the people in Bab al-Tebbaneh and TJ. The army was unable to defend them so they defended themselves. HA isn't immune from such attacks either. HA is becoming less and less popular among Christians and Sunnis. Now they are being attacked politically and with words but that could easily escalate into violence unless HA removes its political motives and becomes a neutral supplement to the army in defending the South.

Even Hariri recognized HA's benefits being armed
http://www.dailymotion.com/popular/search/bbc%2Bprime/video/xrytt_hariri-interview-from-november-2001_events
Was he against a strong state? Even though it was under Syrian rule, it still holds true but HA needs to start stepping down in the way I mentioned and the army needs to start stepping up and I think it could work over time. But just to say "only the army can have weapons. disarm" and the other side saying "we're not giving up anything" is just going to lead to escalating chaos.

Even in the US, the Minutemen project formed because the government was unable to defend the border from illegal immigrants. Imagine if Mexico was a superpower. As you probably know, most of the weapons used in assassinations and the fighting in northern Mexico comes from groups in the US. Mexico uses this reason to invade US. Wouldn't have the Minutemen armed to defend? I'm not saying its right, but its understandable as to why they would.

Edited

Edited

These don't seem like "spies" to me. More like informants. Could be just a coincidence and the sign of a strengthening intel



I'm using it as an example because even though its "strong" its only because of foreign donations of weaponry. Even though they did everything "right" they aren't truly independent. If that support of the West is gone, they are helpless and the monarchy is facing growing anger. It may be stronger than Lebanon but that's not saying much.

Ethiopia on the other hand, relies on itself and accepts aid when it comes but doesn't rely on it like Jordan and Lebanon does. They may currently have a lukewarm relationship with the West but its been up and down the past 30 years and the strength of their military hasn't been affected by its relations with other countries but rather how much effort the government in power invested into it. I think Ethiopia's way of militarization is a better way for Lebanon

An army thats afraid to take sides in defending its citizens isn't an army that can be taken seriously which strengthens my point that if HA disarms before the army is strong, someone else will take their place. Its only natural and has manifested itself with the people in Bab al-Tebbaneh and TJ. The army was unable to defend them so they defended themselves. HA isn't immune from such attacks either. HA is becoming less and less popular among Christians and Sunnis. Now they are being attacked politically and with words but that could easily escalate into violence unless HA removes its political motives and becomes a neutral supplement to the army in defending the South.

Even Hariri recognized HA's benefits being armed
http://www.dailymotion.com/popular/search/bbc%2Bprime/video/xrytt_hariri-interview-from-november-2001_events
Was he against a strong state? Even though it was under Syrian rule, it still holds true but HA needs to start stepping down in the way I mentioned and the army needs to start stepping up and I think it could work over time. But just to say "only the army can have weapons. disarm" and the other side saying "we're not giving up anything" is just going to lead to escalating chaos.

Even in the US, the Minutemen project formed because the government was unable to defend the border from illegal immigrants. Imagine if Mexico was a superpower. As you probably know, most of the weapons used in assassinations and the fighting in northern Mexico comes from groups in the US. Mexico uses this reason to invade US. Wouldn't have the Minutemen armed to defend? I'm not saying its right, but its understandable as to why they would.

Even a strong nation like Israel, with a powerful military and technological advances have to rely on USAID in the form of 10 billion dollars a year. and I am not sure why we are even disussing Ethiopia here. They are located in a different geographic area with a different socio/political agenda. I sure hope that ur not aspiring to use Ethiopia as a model to look up to. They are one of the poorest nations on the face of the planet. There invasion of Somalia is a walk in the park compared to the problems that we face in Lebanon. Lebanon has the potential to defend itself and strenghthen it's military. But one will be naive to assume that Lebanon can become free of foreign meddling or influence. Lebanon is only a tiny little speck on the face of this planet and we will always be part of a bigger tide. I am sure you already know that. The big issue here is whether Lebanon wants to be an ally of the West or the East. Personally I prefer the West for obvious benefits, such as technology, economical cooperation, tourism, education, etc. Striking an alliance with Syria and Iran will get us nowhere. It is that simple. everything else we debated makes no difference in this discussion, nor will it benefit Lebanon. If you think otherwise please let me know why the otherside would benefit us more.

btw the minutemen are not allowed to abduct or shoot anyone. They are observers who report criminals to the state. I am not sure what invasion are u talking about since mexicans come to america looking for work in the same way that syrians come to lebanon looking for work. It's economics, not politics.

Ok I never wanted to step into this nor even opening this thread from all your political crap you guys cause all over the forum (and by you I am not directly specifying to a certain forumer, but someone who starts, finishes, is part of, or anything related to a provocative conversation.)

Melkart, you are more than welcomed in this forum, but please make sure you do read all the forum rules (and that applies to everyone). You are new to this forum and you have already entered into poisonous debates. How does this look like to us Moderators? This doesn't only apply to yourself, there's Guy, Rabih and others as well. If you come to this forum only to defend your stance or a certain political group, than you will be given and infraction or be brigged.

Last but not least, I do not want to see the face of Nesrallah, Hariri, Jumblatt, Wala Nabih Berri or anyone that is related to a political group, whether it is in the news section, this thread or elsewhere. They are ALL, each and everyone of them, March 8, March 14, a disgrace to Lebanon and us Lebanese. KELLON, and not one is left out, akhra min ba3don. You guys just don't understand that they are all the ROOT of our problems.

No one justifies for whatever they have done, for simply I will not respond. Consider yourselves warned, ANYONE who provokes, tries to justify something they KNOW they have done wrong, disses one group (or groups) and/or does nothing to stop their non sense on this forum, will NOT result in an infraction nor a brig, but a PERMANENT BAN. Again, consider yourselves warned. There will be NO EXCEPTIONS.

... K H A L A S

I apologize if I have offended anyone in this forum, as Nadini has said I am new to this forum and have just gotten myself famliarized with the forum rules. However I would like to add that I joined this forum mainly to discuss architecture and development, only when i stumbled on this thread did I delve myself into a political discussion. Even though I wasn't familiar with the forum rules I had no excuse to insult or offend anyone. Respecting one another is common sence and shouldn't require any rules to guide oneself. Having said that I will take my utmost care in having a civil and tasteful discussion. Again I apologize for any inconvenience i have caused to anyone in this forum.

These don't seem like "spies" to me. More like informants. Could be just a coincidence and the sign of a strengthening intel

:lol: what is the difference, they would have still cause the deaths of thousands during a war, if left undealt with. These informants communicate with Israel and tell them what/where to hit. We don't need those.

Also, it was a chain reaction basically. The first of them was caught very early in the year, he informed about other informants, and so on and so forth. The recent ex-army general arrested gave information about those 4 others recently arrested, apparently including a Palestinian.

^^ most of them from the south , strange , hmmmmmm

So,,what are we supposed to post in this thread ????

^^very nice
and very touching:master:

^^ most of them from the south , strange , hmmmmmm

Yes...and What is that supposed to mean? It makes perfect sense that this would happen....especially because the shiites are neglected in the south and everywhere....all thanks to hte government ;)

It is one of the main reasons why we have a resistance in the south, and why we won't get rid of it ;)

(To the moderaters, notice how I made sure not to mention any political alliance, inorder not to cause a commosion and get blames for it)

yes what are we supposed to talk about now???

talk about ummmmmm .... the best beach in Lebanon.

^^ How about we talk about skyscrapers?

thats another good topic also. Im sure there is a few threads in this sub fourm about skyscrapers and buidlings

so the big question remains can we still discuss politics as long as it is within the rules? I thought the purpose of this thread was to discuss any topic so that it wouldn't spill to other threads. I mean I post items regarding architecture and such on other threads, but we need to vent out at some point. As long as we follow the rules, there shouldn't be any issues! as matter of fact i noticed a considerable change in people's tones. sides it's educational and there aren't that many forums where politics is discussed. this gives us the opportunity to learn about the other side. I think that despite our differences, we can all benefit from learning about one another. this way no assumptions or prejudices are made.

^^ There was a politics thread that was closed last year. This thread was a space for discussing controvercial topics and a place to dump OT inappropriate posts so as to prevent hijacking of friendly threads and prevent such topics from spilling into other threads. Basically it is where we quarentine debates.

^^ There was a politics thread that was closed last year. This thread was a space for discussing controvercial topics and a place to dump OT inappropriate posts so as to prevent hijacking of friendly threads and prevent such topics from spilling into other threads. Basically it is where we quarentine debates.

so are u saying that we can continue to discuss politics as long as it is tasteful!

so the big question remains can we still discuss politics as long as it is within the rules? I thought the purpose of this thread was to discuss any topic so that it wouldn't spill to other threads. I mean I post items regarding architecture and such on other threads, but we need to vent out at some point. As long as we follow the rules, there shouldn't be any issues! as matter of fact i noticed a considerable change in people's tones. sides it's educational and there aren't that many forums where politics is discussed. this gives us the opportunity to learn about the other side. I think that despite our differences, we can all benefit from learning about one another. this way no assumptions or prejudices are made.

I agree that is a learning experience. At this stage, I will not post anything regarding this topic as I do not feel that I possess the same level of knowledge as many of you here, but I have learned a lot from reading everyones posts! I do have an opinion and do favor one side, but my decision is a more balanced one as a result of this site.
Hopefully everyone can follow the forum rules so we can continue to participate in/observe these interesting debates.

so are u saying that we can continue to discuss politics as long as it is tasteful!

Nadini was very right in that many forumers including yourself have abused the luxury of having such a thread by disregarding the rules and turning this thread into a free-for-all battle with personal jabs and insults and mockery. It doesnt work like that. If you have something to say regarding a controvercial topic that might come up in another thread - come here instead! Do not post anything controvercial, provocative, inflammatory, etc. in any other thread. This thread comes with a warning label, and forumers that are not interested in debates and such topics can avoid it. The intent of this thread is to prevent certain forumers from ruining other threads. So if you have something to get off your chest and you know that it will spark a debate, bring it here and no where else. This is the only place such topics will be tolerated. However, you MUST still follow the rules of the forum and avoid any personal attacks against one another.

Nadini was very right in that many forumers including yourself have abused the luxury of having such a thread by disregarding the rules and turning this thread into a free-for-all battle with personal jabs and insults and mockery. It doesnt work like that. If you have something to say regarding a controvercial topic that might come up in another thread - come here instead! Do not post anything controvercial, provocative, inflammatory, etc. in any other thread. This thread comes with a warning label, and forumers that are not interested in debates and such topics can avoid it. The intent of this thread is to prevent certain forumers from ruining other threads. So if you have something to get off your chest and you know that it will spark a debate, bring it here and no where else. This is the only place such topics will be tolerated. However, you MUST still follow the rules of the forum and avoid any personal attacks against one another.

ok fair enough, but just for the record I have never posted anything controvercial on other threads except for this one. at least non that I am aware of.

so the big question remains can we still discuss politics as long as it is within the rules? I thought the purpose of this thread was to discuss any topic so that it wouldn't spill to other threads. I mean I post items regarding architecture and such on other threads, but we need to vent out at some point. As long as we follow the rules, there shouldn't be any issues! as matter of fact i noticed a considerable change in people's tones. sides it's educational and there aren't that many forums where politics is discussed. this gives us the opportunity to learn about the other side. I think that despite our differences, we can all benefit from learning about one another. this way no assumptions or prejudices are made.

You have not been here for too long to know how "beneficial" these types of forums are. We have been "learning" from each other for years now. Many have condemned these sites, etc. I think we should just close all of these threads. If one gets off topic, just give them an infraction. Also give one to whoever responds to the person, because that person knows well what she/he should do. In other words, let's completely rid ourselves of this forum, it is a burden to me, it just causes me to become stressful. The only reason I continue to debate is because there is a dominant group in this thread, and there has been some ganging up, on users. Melkart, go to the Politics section, and read the first 20 pages, beautiful, you will know what I mean. Open ended sentences like “go back to iran,” etc, etc, is not beneficial, and I don’t mean to point the finger at anyone, but before a couple of users, and I came to this forum, there wasn’t really anything to learn from, because everyone had the same beliefs/opinions. I came here because I saw many things being said which I found to be directly against my beliefs, and possibly personal. I really wish I could go online and not have to worry about debating, because I just can’t control the urge, I feel like exploding. We have argued on this forum in different threads, and everytime I have promised myself not to argue, heck, I have been saying this to myself for the past year. I think especially now, because of the elections, there will be much tension. Geagea says this, Junblat this, Aoun that, and it is just impossible to stay shut about it. So how about we just shut this thread, and the elections, and anything that has to do with politics, and try to stay on topic.

Tear down this thread.

Even a strong nation like Israel, with a powerful military and technological advances have to rely on USAID in the form of 10 billion dollars a year. and I am not sure why we are even disussing Ethiopia here. They are located in a different geographic area with a different socio/political agenda. I sure hope that ur not aspiring to use Ethiopia as a model to look up to. They are one of the poorest nations on the face of the planet. There invasion of Somalia is a walk in the park compared to the problems that we face in Lebanon. Lebanon has the potential to defend itself and strenghthen it's military. But one will be naive to assume that Lebanon can become free of foreign meddling or influence. Lebanon is only a tiny little speck on the face of this planet and we will always be part of a bigger tide. I am sure you already know that. The big issue here is whether Lebanon wants to be an ally of the West or the East. Personally I prefer the West for obvious benefits, such as technology, economical cooperation, tourism, education, etc. Striking an alliance with Syria and Iran will get us nowhere. It is that simple. everything else we debated makes no difference in this discussion, nor will it benefit Lebanon. If you think otherwise please let me know why the otherside would benefit us more.

btw the minutemen are not allowed to abduct or shoot anyone. They are observers who report criminals to the state. I am not sure what invasion are u talking about since mexicans come to america looking for work in the same way that syrians come to lebanon looking for work. It's economics, not politics.

I never said don't accept aid. Rather, I said Lebanon should accept aid but shouldn't be reliant on it. Accept help from whatever friendly nation is willing to help: Iran, US, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc etc...as long as it benefits Lebanon. Israel has a GDP of over 200 billion dollars. Receiving 10 billion dollars in aid isn't reliance.

The Ethiopian model of militarization is definitely something Lebanon should look into. I never said we should copy "one of the poorest countries on Earth" economically. We already established that economy and the military are two different things. Their problems are much greater than Lebanon's. They have terrorist groups, a country based on anarchy on its borders, and 8-9 separatist groups that's actively attacking the army on a continuous basis and their military remains strong unlike the Lebanese Army that was stretched to the max by a single previously unknown terror cell in Nahr el Bared. Theres a lot more going on there than just an invasion of Somalia and the fact that one of the poorest nations in the world could still maintain such a strong military is something comparatively wealthy Lebanon should look up to. I'm using it as an example for that reason.

What I said about the minutemen was "Imagine if Mexico was a superpower. As you probably know, most of the weapons used in assassinations and the fighting in northern Mexico comes from groups in the US. Mexico uses this reason to invade US. Wouldn't have the Minutemen armed to defend? I'm not saying its right, but its understandable as to why they would."
Of course there was no invasion but its a hypothetical situation. If there was a threat of a Mexican invasion, people would've been up in arms to resist an occupation if the army was unable or unwilling to just like people in Bab el Tabbeneh and TJ did

I never said don't accept aid. Rather, I said Lebanon should accept aid but shouldn't be reliant on it. Accept help from whatever friendly nation is willing to help: Iran, US, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc etc...as long as it benefits Lebanon. Israel has a GDP of over 200 billion dollars. Receiving 10 billion dollars in aid isn't reliance.

The Ethiopian model of militarization is definitely something Lebanon should look into. I never said we should copy "one of the poorest countries on Earth" economically. We already established that . Their problems are much greater than Lebanon's. They have terrorist groups, a country based on anarchy on its borders, and 8-9 separatist groups that's actively attacking the army on a continuous basis and their military remains strong unlike the Lebanese Army that was stretched to the max by a single previously unknown terror cell in Nahr el Bared. Theres a lot more going on there than just an invasion of Somalia and the fact that one of the poorest nations in the world could still maintain such a strong military is something comparatively wealthy Lebanon should look up to. I'm using it as an example for that reason.

What I said about the minutemen was "Imagine if Mexico was a superpower. As you probably know, most of the weapons used in assassinations and the fighting in northern Mexico comes from groups in the US. Mexico uses this reason to invade US. Wouldn't have the Minutemen armed to defend? I'm not saying its right, but its understandable as to why they would."
Of course there was no invasion but its a hypothetical situation. If there was a threat of a Mexican invasion, people would've been up in arms to resist an occupation if the army was unable or unwilling to just like people in Bab el Tabbeneh and TJ did

umm u didn't answer my last question about what strategy u think that Lebanon should take? In terms of striking alliances that is. also what makes the Lebanese military weak isn't so much hinged on the posession of military harware and equipment, but on how the army operates. I mean don't take me wrong we desperatly need to upgrade the military from a technology point of view. however the main weakness is the danger of the army splintering into different factions like it did in the civil war. That's why I kept using the examples of our army standing by and doing nothing. They are afraid to intervene not so much cause they fear an asswooping but rather a fear of disunity among ranks. In terms of nahr al bared they did a phenomenal job considering what they had to work with. but when they are faced against hisballah that's a whole new issue. cause that's an internal split amongst the people, hence making the military and the nation weak. This is why I keep saying we should have one army one nation. and if the people are split as in our case, we should turn to the polls and not to the battlefield. there is hardly a nation in this world where all politicians agree on a single issue, we are not unique in this problem. It is how we deal with our diffrences that sets us apart from the rest of our fellow earthlings.

You have not been here for too long to know how "beneficial" these types of forums are. We have been "learning" from each other for years now. Many have condemned these sites, etc. I think we should just close all of these threads. If one gets off topic, just give them an infraction. Also give one to whoever responds to the person, because that person knows well what she/he should do. In other words, let's completely rid ourselves of this forum, it is a burden to me, it just causes me to become stressful. The only reason I continue to debate is because there is a dominant group in this thread, and there has been some ganging up, on users. Melkart, go to the Politics section, and read the first 20 pages, beautiful, you will know what I mean. Open ended sentences like “go back to iran,” etc, etc, is not beneficial, and I don’t mean to point the finger at anyone, but before a couple of users, and I came to this forum, there wasn’t really anything to learn from, because everyone had the same beliefs/opinions. I came here because I saw many things being said which I found to be directly against my beliefs, and possibly personal. I really wish I could go online and not have to worry about debating, because I just can’t control the urge, I feel like exploding. We have argued on this forum in different threads, and everytime I have promised myself not to argue, heck, I have been saying this to myself for the past year. I think especially now, because of the elections, there will be much tension. Geagea says this, Junblat this, Aoun that, and it is just impossible to stay shut about it. So how about we just shut this thread, and the elections, and anything that has to do with politics, and try to stay on topic.

Tear down this thread.

Ali maybe I live in a March 14 bubble, but for some reason most Lebanese people that I know tend to agree with my beliefs, so this is one of the few outlets where I can hear directly the personal opinions of the other side other than the news and the media. Personally I am for keeping this thread. There is no reason to be furious, we all care about Lebanon, and as the french say Vive la difference! so if we defer we should state our opinion without insulting one another.

I read the headlines today "Obama to Address Muslim World From Egypt"

Now why can't I seem to stop laughing :rofl: ???

I read the headlines today "Obama to Address Muslim World From Egypt"

Now why can't I seem to stop laughing :rofl: ???

Ali at least they are trying to reach out! I don't see any one from the middle East trying to do that. whether they are zionist supporters or not u have to at least give them credit for trying to reach out for some type of understanding. It takes two to tango. you can't complain if the other side isn't even trying.

By the other side do you mean the Muslim world? What did they do in the first place :lol:?

But no, that's not what I am "complaining" about. It's just the fact that out of all of the "Muslim" countries, they pick Egypt. Nobody is going to take Obama serious this way, why who in the Arab/Muslim world even listens to Egypt (no offense)? By Egypt, I mean Egypt's government. Nobody listens to Egypt when it comes to religion and politics. The Majority of Muslims hate Egypt's government, and everything it stands for.

Especially after what they did/are doing before/after the Gaza war. You might justify Egypt's acts, I am indifferent, but the rest of the Muslim/Arab world honestly can't seem to justify it, and it is the Majority that Obama should face, the same Majority that Hates Israel and Egypt sawa.

I am not disrespecting Obama's efforts, but he is getting nowhere by appealing to Egypt.

Also Iran and Syria are trying to open up also, but they are unwilling to let go of certain things, which is perfectly in their rights. Iran is allowed to enrich Uranium, which till this day, has not been proven to be creating/attempting to create Nuclear weapons.

It really goes back to satisfying Israel, which America seems to be doing. I wish America would just let go of its strong blindly established bond with Israel, and they should abandon their double standards, in where they condemn Iran for supplying "terrorist" groups, but then they (America) themselves send thousands of TONS of weapons to Israel, right after the Gaza war.

I like Europe's approach, now Britain is going over papers to make sure its weapons are not being sent to Israel and being used to terrorize Palestinians.

I find this funny, but Iran has even stopped using the "Death to America" slogans in its Annual Military Parade.

I honestly was a Obama supporter until I heard his Aipac speech. I didn't know whether he was running to be the president of Israel or America anymore. Did you know that Obama's campaign managers actually had to withdraw his statements, that is how extreme and serious the case was.

Now, I am just waiting for signs from Obama that he actually wants change in the Middle East, and that he isn't just camouflaging Israel's safety under "Change we can believe in."

That is my stance now.

No, nobody has the right to blame anyone in Lebanon. ... This is democracy. ... And I am sure that the western world learnd form theire mistakes in Gaza.

You can't put sanction on an elected government .. it will not have a positive effect for the party sitting in the opposition . Hezbollah is part of Lebanon if want it or not and I think all lebanese know it.

We are not able to unite with weapons rather with words and reconciliation.

Yourrrrrrrrrrrrrrr back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome back Libano!

what ever happened?

I dont think anything happend..

With what?

Before the 2006 war between Israel and the Shiite movement, there were sleeping cells or networks with a limited margin for manoeuvre, says an official security services under the guise of anonymity.

Since 2009, these spies have become more active and have left traces, which allowed us to unmask them, he says.

At least 17 suspected agents are currently being held; the last four were arrested Friday in the southern region.

The ‘master knock’ of the security services was the arrest in April of a former general in the General Security, Adib al-Alam, with his wife and nephew, who admitted that he worked for Israel for over 15 years.

Since then, arrests have increased. The majority were Lebanese, working as car salesmen, butchers, or at a service station.

In a country still technically at war with Israel, officials unmasked face life imprisonment with hard labour. If the judge believes that this collaboration has resulted in death, he may seek the death penalty.

The security officials and experts stress that Israel is trying to build a database on Hezbollah to be better prepared in case of a new war.

The Israelis have realized after 2006 that they did not have a bank of targets for bombings targeting, particularly in the southern suburbs of Beirut, stressed Randa Haidar, an expert on Israel in the daily Annahar (close to the anti-Syrian majority).

The area called ‘security perimeter’ in this suburb where the main offices of Hezbollah were heavily bombed during the summer of 2006, without any leader of the movement being reached.

Officials have recognized that Israel has the responsibility to gather information on the positions of the Lebanese army and Hezbollah and locate them on maps with absolute precision, says an Intelligence official of the army under cover of anonymity.

Meanwhile, military expert Elias Hanna said that Israel wants to know where the leaders of Hezbollah, its missiles, its telecommunications network.

But, he adds, spying Hezbollah is very difficult since it is a very secretive organization, with an underground network.

It is an inhabitant of southern Lebanon, a stronghold of Hezbollah, who may collect such information, continued the expert.

The agents went to Israel for the most part through European countries. There, they were trained in the use of ultra sophisticated satellite telecommunications systems, says the head of the security services.

These devices are easily introduced in Lebanon after being hidden.
The system used by General Alam was hidden in a small refrigerator similar to those used in hotel rooms, while another officer had a special chip connected to his computer to transmit information, according to the expert.

The bait is the only financial motivation for these people, he says.

Recent publicity that surrounded the Hezbollah terrorist group’s subversive operations in Egypt has diverted media attention from Hezbollah’s greater goal — to take over the Lebanese government.

A study released yesterday by the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, run by former Israeli ambassador to the U.N., Dr. Dore Gold, titled: “Hezbollah’s Struggle to Change the Lebanese Regime,” claims that Hezbollah seeks to “destroy the foundations of the sectarian regime in Lebanon agreed upon in the National Pact of 1943,” which carefully divided powers there between Christians, Muslims and Druze.

That pact has been preserved by the Lebanese state ever since.

However, this new study warns that Hezbollah is close to reaching its goal of establishing an Islamic state and a complete Iranian takeover of Lebanon.

On April 3, Hezbollah published its political platform in advance of elections to the Lebanese parliament scheduled for June 7, 2009.

The document calls for the abolition of sectarian politics and for the enactment of a new election law that would alter the equation of sectarian forces in Lebanon.


------------------------------My Take--------------------------------------

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:hilarious :hilarious :hilarious :hilarious

Sorry, I got a little bit carried away. Where were we again?

^^what is exactly so hilarious? :/

the fact its a complete piece of bullshit

oh like we didn't already know that israel is spying on us. that's a shocker!

And you are ok with it? Sure we knew, but now we have evidence. I want to see you for once, letting your Anti-Hezbollah guard down, when they do something patriotic, don't try to condemn their actions, or try to act indifferent as if what they did is irrelavent. Are you trying to reason with Israel ya3ne? Like so what. These discoveries are very important, and the fact that you don't congratulate such findings, to me, seems to show me that you are insecure about your real feelings about Hezbollah. You know, supporting Hezbollah once in a while won't make you a Hezbollah supporter, you don't have to find an excuse everytime. If they do something beneficial for Lebanon, don't go against it, remember, you are Lebanese before being March 14. If March 14 did something like this, I would congratulate them, this is a good thing.

the fact its a complete piece of bullshit


Just like Leb.Fr said

BINGO! :lol:

This is proof that ONLY America and the cooperation of the Lebanese GOVERNMENT can liberate Lebanese land! Hizballah is nothing but a road block (pun intended!).



Sorry to go back in time, but I missed the point of this post.

America will get us nowhere!

Also, Saniora addressed these withdrawel claims by Israel as a "rumor," he added that they are only meant to take away the attention from the Israel Networks discovered in Lebanon. It has nothing to do with America, nor cooperation.

And you are ok with it? Sure we knew, but now we have evidence. I want to see you for once, letting your Anti-Hezbollah guard down, when they do something patriotic, don't try to condemn their actions, or try to act indifferent as if what they did is irrelavent. Are you trying to reason with Israel ya3ne? Like so what. These discoveries are very important, and the fact that you don't congratulate such findings, to me, seems to show me that you are insecure about your real feelings about Hezbollah. You know, supporting Hezbollah once in a while won't make you a Hezbollah supporter, you don't have to find an excuse everytime. If they do something beneficial for Lebanon, don't go against it, remember, you are Lebanese before being March 14. If March 14 did something like this, I would congratulate them, this is a good thing.

Ali my main issue with Hisballah is the fact that they have weapons everything else is irrelevant. I mean if they caught the spies than congratulations, but I am still not impressed.

Sorry to go back in time, but I missed the point of this post.

America will get us nowhere!

Also, Saniora addressed these withdrawel claims by Israel as a "rumor," he added that they are only meant to take away the attention from the Israel Networks discovered in Lebanon. It has nothing to do with America, nor cooperation.


Ali surely u don't believe everything u here. right now it's cool to bash israel cause the more they do it the more votes they think they will get. so saniora is playing politics at the momment.

I haven't heard from guy, I am starting to worry!! :ohno:

Ali my main issue with Hisballah is the fact that they have weapons everything else is irrelevant. I mean if they caught the spies than congratulations, but I am still not impressed.

Who cares if they have weapons, its not like no one else does! When was the last time ANY OTHER PARTY caught spies? and what do you mean by "i am still not impressed"? what is Hezbollah supposed to do to impress you?

with Phonecian Empire disappearing and then coming back?

^^ He tends to take a long hiatus from the forum now and then.

what is Hezbollah supposed to do to impress you?


If they disarmed and stopped undermining the State, we would be VERY impressed!

I would also be happy if they did that, They look after their people well, they should shop ingoring the Goverment.

^^ you're right... it's americas fault, but our loss... the last thing lebanon needs is to separate itself from the western world (not america specifically) and be allies with syria and iran... i could VOMIT

Who cares if they have weapons, its not like no one else does! When was the last time ANY OTHER PARTY caught spies? and what do you mean by "i am still not impressed"? what is Hezbollah supposed to do to impress you?


:applause:

I haven't looked at Hezbollah's goals in a while, but I am pretty darn sure it doesn't say "Impress Melkart" :lol:

Hezbollah is here to protect us, not to impress people Skyscrapercity users. It is not undermining the government, there would be no government if it wasn't for Hezbollah. Lebanon, is what it is today, because of Hezbollah. It does not owe the Lebanese anything, it doesn't have to disarm.

Abdallah, trust me, if it was the Lebanese Army or March 14 who caught 1 spy, Melkart would be "impressed" under the name of "democracy."

Is this honestly what I have to debate? Comon, this is Lebanon we are talking about, not March14-istan. The country doesn't revolve around March 14, and the Elections will prove so.

But it's funny you mention the government, which neglected the South of course, the shiites in particular. Why am I talking about the past? Which is still neglecting the Shiite areas. Shiite areas don't even get Electricity and Water. How much money does the government spend in our area? How much do they spend in Saida? Saida looks like timesquare, while Bir Hassan, well don't get me started. It is no wonder the Shiites seeked foreign help, in the first place.

How much money did the Lebanese government spend in Shiite areas during the 70s, 80s, and 90s? Like 0.04% of the governments budget :ohno:

Let's not get into that. This would be a completely different subject, offtopic, against the forum rules. How's that ? :D

I haven't heard from guy, I am starting to worry!! :ohno:


Guy doesn't usually appear here often. He just coincidently appeared when you came.

If they disarmed and stopped undermining the State, we would be VERY impressed!

In other words, do everything you want? Lets wait for the Elections, in less than a month.

Ali surely u don't believe everything u here. right now it's cool to bash israel cause the more they do it the more votes they think they will get



That may be true, but that doesn't mean it is out of the question. It is not like Israel has played an angel in these years, I don't care if it is true or false, what is true is that Israel does not want what is best for Lebanon, and that they are the enemy. They are not scapegoats, we have every reason to accuse them.

----------------------------On the other hand----------------------------------------

Israeli officials claimed that this was inorder to boost Saniora's campaign, and that Saniora only made these comments inorder to take away the attention from him.

that is quite vomit-inducing, I have to agree with P.G

If they disarmed and stopped undermining the State, we would be VERY impressed!


Thanks Beiruti I thought I was very clear on this, but I guess I'll have to try to explain this again.

:applause:

I haven't looked at Hezbollah's goals in a while, but I am pretty darn sure it doesn't say "Impress Melkart" :lol:

Hezbollah is here to protect us, not to impress people Skyscrapercity users. It is not undermining the government, there would be no government if it wasn't for Hezbollah. Lebanon, is what it is today, because of Hezbollah. It does not owe the Lebanese anything, it doesn't have to disarm.

Abdallah, trust me, if it was the Lebanese Army or March 14 who caught 1 spy, Melkart would be "impressed" under the name of "democracy."

Is this honestly what I have to debate? Comon, this is Lebanon we are talking about, not March14-istan. The country doesn't revolve around March 14, and the Elections will prove so.

But it's funny you mention the government, which neglected the South of course, the shiites in particular. Why am I talking about the past? Which is still neglecting the Shiite areas. Shiite areas don't even get Electricity and Water. How much money does the government spend in our area? How much do they spend in Saida? Saida looks like timesquare, while Bir Hassan, well don't get me started. It is no wonder the Shiites seeked foreign help, in the first place.

How much money did the Lebanese government spend in Shiite areas during the 70s, 80s, and 90s? Like 0.04% of the governments budget :ohno:

Oh Ali surely Hisballah can't get all the credit for catching spies! Either way what does it matter, it isn't gonna solve anything. the root of the problem is the division amongst the Lebanese people. Disunity = weakness. and if we support hisballah than we would have a conflict of interest, such as two armies, two ideologies, etc. no matter how much hisballah works with the army; they remain two different entities. like I said earlier we can differ in opinions, but it's through the elections that we must settle our differences. and yes that goes for us too if we loose the elections. either way I predict hisballah will get even stronger in the upcoming elections. no one is in denial here. The big surprise will be, to see how the christian vote plays in this! will aoun get stronger or weaker?

Who cares if they have weapons, its not like no one else does! When was the last time ANY OTHER PARTY caught spies? and what do you mean by "i am still not impressed"? what is Hezbollah supposed to do to impress you?

well they can put on a show, maybe a dabkhe. lol :cheers:

That may be true, but that doesn't mean it is out of the question. It is not like Israel has played an angel in these years, I don't care if it is true or false, what is true is that Israel does not want what is best for Lebanon, and that they are the enemy. They are not scapegoats, we have every reason to accuse them.

----------------------------On the other hand----------------------------------------

Israeli officials claimed that this was inorder to boost Saniora's campaign, and that Saniora only made these comments inorder to take away the attention from him.

What would you do without Israel being your enemy? what justification will the asortment of terrorsits operating in Lebanon would have holding on to their weapons (and using it against Lebanese population when needed).
What could unite a ntion where everyone hate each other, more the hate for the evil Zionists?

What would you do without Israel being your enemy? what justification will the asortment of terrorsits operating in Lebanon would have holding on to their weapons (and using it against Lebanese population when needed).
What could unite a ntion where everyone hate each other, more the hate for the evil Zionists?
ykd
Oh please Alon, I hate it when people loosly use the word Terrorist. Go back to your Israeli forum.; The whole would be a utopia without Israel. Israel invaded OUR country, not the other way around. If it wasn't for your countries actions, Hezbollah and Hamas would have never emerged in the first place. But ofcourse, your countries strategy seems to ignore the cause of the problem, and just go off killing innocent civilians.

Oh Ali surely Hisballah can't get all the credit for catching spies! Either way what does it matter, it isn't gonna solve anything. the root of the problem is the division amongst the Lebanese people. Disunity = weakness. and if we support hisballah than we would have a conflict of interest, such as two armies, two ideologies, etc. no matter how much hisballah works with the army; they remain two different entities. like I said earlier we can differ in opinions, but it's through the elections that we must settle our differences. and yes that goes for us too if we loose the elections. either way I predict hisballah will get even stronger in the upcoming elections. no one is in denial here. The big surprise will be, to see how the christian vote plays in this! will aoun get stronger or weaker?


It is not the question of whether who takes all the credit. It seems that you are just trying to find an excuse again, not to congratulate Hezbollah. These spies provide Israel targets. A Lebanese army spokesman anonymously said that these cells were “sleeping” and just recently started to work, and left traces. This means Israel is preparing for a strike, like July 12 (which was preplanned). These spies provide targets to Israel, if this is not an accomplishment, I don’t know what is. Like Abdullah said, let’s see what March 14 can do. Be grateful for what IS being done, because it doesn't seem like the Lebanese army is doing any better (with all my respect to them) It is obvious they worked together (Hezbollah and Leb. Army).

It is possible for both groups to work each other, they both are against Israel, and want the safety of the country. In the 2006 war, the Jeish worked with Hezbollah to facilitate Hezbollah’s movement, etc. Of course except those battalions instructed by saniora to confiscate weapons which was being used against Israel (which apparently you are proud of :ohno: ), and the battalion which was under Fatfat’s orders (at the time).

Hezbollah, will get stronger anyway, it is getting stronger by the second. The Jiesh doesn’t do anything, they see the weapons being transported under their view and their cover. But either way, Hezbollah still has underground networks which would still prevent the Jiesh from interfering, but it isn’t like they would want to do anything. Winning the elections will be a good thing, but like we say in Lebanese, it will be like their feet (mitil ijron).

You know, I don't understand who ever said "Oh, lets go to Syria and Iran"...nobody is saying that but don’t give America credit for Lebanon’s sucess.

well they can put on a show, maybe a dabkhe. lol :cheers:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::rofl: lol

umm u didn't answer my last question about what strategy u think that Lebanon should take? In terms of striking alliances that is. also what makes the Lebanese military weak isn't so much hinged on the posession of military harware and equipment, but on how the army operates. I mean don't take me wrong we desperatly need to upgrade the military from a technology point of view. however the main weakness is the danger of the army splintering into different factions like it did in the civil war. That's why I kept using the examples of our army standing by and doing nothing. They are afraid to intervene not so much cause they fear an asswooping but rather a fear of disunity among ranks. In terms of nahr al bared they did a phenomenal job considering what they had to work with. but when they are faced against hisballah that's a whole new issue. cause that's an internal split amongst the people, hence making the military and the nation weak. This is why I keep saying we should have one army one nation. and if the people are split as in our case, we should turn to the polls and not to the battlefield. there is hardly a nation in this world where all politicians agree on a single issue, we are not unique in this problem. It is how we deal with our diffrences that sets us apart from the rest of our fellow earthlings.

Sorry I took so long to reply. I've been quite busy lately. As for alliances, I think Lebanon should have doors open to everyone. There is no rule that says that Lebanon has to choose one or the other. Whoever is willing to help Lebanon shouldn't be denied the chance whether its weaponry and training from the US, planes from Russia, bullets from Syria, etc.
The reason the army is afraid of splintering is because of HA's political stances. Their weapons were pretty much a non-issue until they started turning into a major political force by demonstrating to keep the Syrians in Lebanon. That's why its a better solution for them to give up their politics than their weapons and form an agreement in which they are not allowed to go on any offensive missions without the permission of the State but have legal authority to defend in the case of an Israeli invasion. They should be strictly a supplemental defense force against Israel and remain neutral in all domestic political affairs just like the army does. This is the perfect first step to integrating the weapons of HA into the military.
If the military and HA worked together, it would lead to a much stronger State. They worked together during the occupation of the South to infiltrate and attack the SLA and Israel and they did so quite successfully. Its hard for the army to work with them now because the army has to remain politically neutral while HA stays politically biased

ykd
Oh please Alon, I hate it when people loosly use the word Terrorist. Go back to your Israeli forum.; The whole would be a utopia without Israel. Israel invaded OUR country, not the other way around. If it wasn't for your countries actions, Hezbollah and Hamas would have never emerged in the first place. But ofcourse, your countries strategy seems to ignore the cause of the problem, and just go off killing innocent civilians.

You are not the first to dream of wiping out the Jews and sadly not the last.
Lebanon didn't invade Israel but the hezzbollah did, killing 5 soldiers and kidnapping the bodies of 2 more. Thanks for the pesrmission, I'm on my way to kill innocent civilians. Are they the ones that hamas and hezzbollah use as human shields? I wouldn't want to make a mistake and kill a terrorists.

Thanks for showing us how the Israel always uses the same pretext whenever it kills thousands of little children, the damn terrorists were in buildings....yeah....sure they were....that's what happened in the UN schools right??? Terrorist rockets right?

Just a question though, How was Hezbollah using human shields if it was fighting in the South, and the damn Israeli planes were in the north destroying the infrustructre and....you know what, why am I arguing with you? You probably justify what your army did in Gaza, because we all know how experienced 1-9 year olds are in terrorism. Do you even know what terrorism is? Fighting against an occupation isn't terrorism. Defending your country isn't terrorism. It's sad how in history books, the only time you will see the word "terrorism," is when you get to the middle east. The rest of the groups in different countries are called resistance groups...

BEIRUT (AP) — Lebanese police displayed sophisticated devices Monday that they said Israel used to spy on Hezbollah, including a water cooler fitted with sensors to survey the landscape.

Other devices shown to reporters and photographers included a car battery charger that the police said was used to store and transmit data and USB flash drives containing detailed maps of Lebanon. Some of the maps showed bridges and military outposts that were hit by Israeli warplanes during the 2006 war with Hezbollah, police said.

The equipment was seized from Palestinians and from Lebanese who were spying for Israel, they said.

In recent weeks, Lebanese authorities say they have arrested at least 14 suspected spies in the latest episode in the long-running espionage battle between the two countries.

The arrests, which took place mainly in southern Lebanon, appear to be part of a stepped-up campaign against those suspected of gathering information on Hezbollah militants for Israel's Mossad intelligence agency. The Iranian-backed Hezbollah guerrilla group fought a 34-day war with Israel in 2006 that killed 1,200 people in Lebanon and 159 in Israel.

"Based on the investigation, it appears that their basic logistics mission focused on defining locations, targets, buildings and outposts as demanded by the enemy intelligence," a police officer told reporters as he displayed the captured items at police headquarters.

The suspected spies were also asked to monitor specific people and strategic targets and to conduct a wide-scale survey of many areas in Lebanon and Syria by using highly sophisticated surveying equipment, the officer said, refusing to be identified by name in line with government regulations.

"Military maps were seized from some agents who defined hundreds of targets in Lebanese territory" before and after the 2006 war, the officer said. He added that investigation showed that all these targets, including buildings, bridges and military outposts, were bombed by Israeli warplanes during the war.

A masked officer pointed to the items as his colleague read from a prepared statement and refused to take questions.

He said the agents used the equipment provided to them by Israel to relay information via "coded radio messages" through satellite or the Internet. One coded transmission device shown to reporters was built into the interior of a cabinet.

Officers also seized forged Lebanese passports and job application forms that they said were to be filled out by potential agents either in southern Lebanon or abroad in the name of a commercial company.

Most of the recent arrests were based on information from a retired Lebanese general charged with spying for Israel last month along with his wife and his nephew, who was a government security agent, Lebanese security officials have said.

Israeli officials have refused to comment on the recent arrests. "It is not our practice to comment on these sorts of allegations when they arise, not in this case, not in any case," government spokesman Mark Regev said Friday.

Lebanon considers itself at war with Israel and bans its citizens from having any contact with the Jewish state.

Hezbollah's TV station has said the arrests were the result of coordinated efforts between the group's security branch and the intelligence arms of the police and the military.

Hezbollah issued a statement condemning the latest UN General Secretary Ban Ki Moon stance in which he cleared Israel from its series of massacres and attacks it committed during its latest December aggression on the Gaza strip.

Hezbollah described Ban’s stance as a flagrant collusion with the Zionist aggressor in which the murderer extremely overcame the victim.

In its statement, Hezbollah called on the international body and its Secretary General to be far above from these positions for the sake of people’s rights, especially the Palestinian people rights, as the image of this institution is gradually collapsing because of its bias and the cover it provides to the criminals.

-----------------------------------
Bravo, Bravo....a slap to the thousands of innocent civilians who died in Lebanon and Gaza....Bravo....and they want us to trust them?

Hezbolla flourishes only with war, of course it's wishing to wage yet another war with Israel, nothing surprising there.

Thanks for showing us how the Israel always uses the same pretext whenever it kills thousands of little children, the damn fucking terrorists were in buildings....yeah....sure they were....that's what happened in the UN schools right??? Terrorist rockets right?

Just a question though, How was Hezbollah using human shields if it was fighting in the South, and the damn Israeli planes were in the north destroying the infrustructre and....you know what, why am I arguing with you? You probably justify what your army did in Gaza, because we all know how experienced 1-9 year olds are in terrorism. Do you even know what terrorism is? Fighting against an occupation isn't terrorism. Defending your country isn't terrorism. It's sad how in history books, the only time you will see the word "terrorism," is when you get to the middle east. The rest of the groups in different countries are called resistance groups...

The hezzbollah Rockets were stored in the in civilians homes, schoold and mosques. the rockets weer also fired from those buildings just like they were in Gaza. will all so hezzis emerging from holes they dug in civilian homes claiming victory over the zionist. Not surpisngly there is no condomnation for boby trooping school and using civilian as human shields.

Hezbollah use civilians as sheild
U5vPGWARHvo

Hamas Booby trap school with explosives
uHhs9ihSmbU

Hezbolla flourishes only with war, of course it's wishing to wage yet another war with Israel, nothing surprising there.

You have it backward: Israel flourishes only with war. Hezbollah is the only Lebanese party not willing to encourage them. Oh dear... this debate again.

Thanks for showing me what propoganda looks like :) Atleast now I won't fall for it when people use it on me. Um, first of All, if a youtube video, is all you can get me, then that is sad. I could get you TONS and TONS of Youtube videos of the Israeli army commiting attrocities in both Gaza and Lebanon.

God knows what country this video was taken in. God knows what war this video was taken in. God knows what year, this video was taken in. and ONLY God knows what groups were involved in this video. There is my response. Honestly, I won't fall for this shit, because that's what it is, clear shit.

Now please, can you spread your zionist ideologies somewhere else, MAYBE THE ISRAELI FORUM?????

It is a damn fact that Hezbollah was nowhere in the NORTH...HEZBOLLAH was fighting in the South. There were NO soldiers who fell in the North, only INNOCENT civilians and buildings, including MY APARTMENT, which I assure you, had no Hezbollah soldiers fighting in it. Why would Hezbollah even launch rockets in the north? Their rockets only fly a certain limit. Also, when the war started, Hezbollah mobilized all of its soldiers, and weapons to the south.

You have it backward: Israel flourishes only with war. Hezbollah is the only Lebanese party not willing to encourage them. Oh dear... this debate again.



Are you honestly trying to reason with him? Just look at his comment, it in and of itself doesn't make any sense. They would wrather support the IDF, than support a Lebanese group :ohno:

BEIRUT (AFP) — Lebanon and Syria on Tuesday said they had agreed to boost coordination in the fight against "terrorism" during the Syrian army commander's visit to Beirut.

"We must work together on matters of mutual interest ... especially on the exchange of information to fight terrorism and prevent all forms of smuggling," Syrian army commander Ali Habib said in a statement from the Lebanese capital.

Weapons smuggling remains active along the border between Lebanon and Syria, according to a UN report issued last year.

Habib met with Lebanese army commander Jean Kahwaji and president Michel Sleiman on Tuesday as part of an ongoing attempts to foster diplomatic ties between the neighbouring countries.

In April 2005 Syria pulled out its troops from Lebanon, after almost 30 years of political and military domination, following the assassination of Lebanon's former prime minister Rafiq Hariri.

Many in Lebanon pointed the finger at Damascus for the murder and a spate of attacks against anti-Syrian figures since, but Syria has strongly denied any involvement.

Lebanon and its former powerbroker agreed to establish diplomatic ties in October 2008 for the first time since their independence 60 years ago.

In August 2008, Syria and Lebanon agreed to take formal steps to demarcate their borders as part of a string of decisions to normalise their relations for the first time in decades.

So much for enemies huh

^^ They are worried about the STL.

^^ They are worried about the STL.


STL? Tribunal?

Sorry I took so long to reply. I've been quite busy lately. As for alliances, I think Lebanon should have doors open to everyone. There is no rule that says that Lebanon has to choose one or the other. Whoever is willing to help Lebanon shouldn't be denied the chance whether its weaponry and training from the US, planes from Russia, bullets from Syria, etc.
The reason the army is afraid of splintering is because of HA's political stances. Their weapons were pretty much a non-issue until they started turning into a major political force by demonstrating to keep the Syrians in Lebanon. That's why its a better solution for them to give up their politics than their weapons and form an agreement in which they are not allowed to go on any offensive missions without the permission of the State but have legal authority to defend in the case of an Israeli invasion. They should be strictly a supplemental defense force against Israel and remain neutral in all domestic political affairs just like the army does. This is the perfect first step to integrating the weapons of HA into the military.
If the military and HA worked together, it would lead to a much stronger State. They worked together during the occupation of the South to infiltrate and attack the SLA and Israel and they did so quite successfully. Its hard for the army to work with them now because the army has to remain politically neutral while HA stays politically biased

if only things worked that way!! the world would be a better place!! :cheers:

STL? Tribunal?

What dose the L mean again ? Special Trbunal Lebanon ?

Syria must be shating them selfs about the STL

^^ They are worried about the STL.

@Melkart: Stl is the acronym for Special Tribunal for Lebanon (I think)


----------------------@Beiruti---------------------------------------

Let's be a little bit more reasonable. First of all, the meeting they had, had nothing to do with the STL of Rafic il 7ariri, etc.

Why would Syria be worried, when there is no concrete proof that Syria had anything to do with it.

Ever since those 4 generals were still under custody, Syria has been confindently denying any connections with the assassination...

So why now, after the release of the 4 generals, would Syria be worried?

The meeting was about both armies working together/supporting eachother in combating enemies, criminals, etc. They talked about Israel....

One thing I have noticed from you is that you are willing to have a peace treaty with Israel, and everytime Israel does something, you give them the benefit of the doubt.

But when it comes to Syria, the benefit of the doubt is never applied to Syrias actions, and you (and other users) will not agree to / condemn any Syrian-Lebanese reconcilliation.

This is funny because Israel did much more damage than any 90 year occupation by Syria could have done. What is it that you have against Syria?

Apparently, Rafic al 7ariri has become more important than Lebanon.

You guys complain about an enemy that is shared by the majority of Lebanese (apparently except the users in here), claiming it wants peace (Oh but the IDF drop leaflets warning the people before they destroy their homes), but when it comes to Syria (considered an enemy by a minority), you want to implement it against everyones wills.

Syria must be shating them selfs about the STL

Like I said to Beiruti, no need for it. If anything, they should be rejoicing.

what if its proven that Syria was part of the assassination ? Then they wouldnt be rejoicing.

That would be a different story then...

for now, we cannot just assume and assure that Syria did such an act.

You have it backward: Israel flourishes only with war. Hezbollah is the only Lebanese party not willing to encourage them. Oh dear... this debate again.

wow... dont be so naive.... both israel and hezbollah are war cravers... and the thing that pisses me off so much is that hezbollah is given credit for lebanons security from israel... which is not true because it engages us in more problems..... i agree that israel needs to give us our land back and other stuff like it... but hezbollah's idea of how to get to that objective is just irrational.

I will not take shit from a party that posts fotos of their leader with the iranian flag in the background. and they have the nerve to say they want independence from every single foreing country? pffff

Israel hands over Lebanon cluster bomb maps: U.N.
Reuters
Tuesday, May 12, 2009

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Israel handed over to U.N. peacekeepers Tuesday maps of where it dropped cluster bombs in Lebanon during the 2006 war with Hezbollah guerrillas, the UNIFIL peacekeeping force said.

The United Nations and the Lebanese government have repeatedly called on Israel to hand over the maps of where it dropped the munitions, most of which were fired in the last 72 hours of the 34-day war.

"UNIFIL received from the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) today technical strike data and related maps on the cluster munitions fired by the IDF over Lebanon during the 2006 conflict," UNIFIL said in a statement. "Technical experts from UNIFIL are currently examining and assessing the data received," it added.

An Israeli army spokesman said maps showing cluster bomb locations had been given to UNIFIL last year. He could not immediately confirm if new maps had been handed over Tuesday.

Dozens of people have been killed and several hundred wounded in mainly rural south Lebanon by munitions left behind by the 2006 war.

A U.N. Security Council resolution which halted the war called on Israel to give the United Nations all remaining maps showing land mine sites in Lebanon.

"These maps and locations should have been handed over immediately after the issuance of the international resolution," Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said in a statement.

The war was triggered when Hezbollah, an Iranian-backed political and military movement, captured two Israeli soldiers during a raid into Israel, saying it wanted to negotiate a prisoner exchange.

(Writing by Tom Perry in Beirut)

wow... dont be so naive.... both israel and hezbollah are war cravers... and the thing that pisses me off so much is that hezbollah is given credit for lebanons security from israel... which is not true because it engages us in more problems..... i agree that israel needs to give us our land back and other stuff like it... but hezbollah's idea of how to get to that objective is just unrational.

I will not take shit from a party that posts fotos of their leader with the iranian flag in the background. and they have the nerve to say they want independence from every single foreing country? pffff

First of all, what is up with all the Syrian/Iranian phobia in these threads?


We took photos of our leaders with the Iranian flag in the background? Can I see this? Moreover, why is it such a problem? There is a picture is Saniora kissing Condiliza Rice, does that mean he wants america to invade Lebanon? Or is that ok? As long as it's not Syria and Iran? pfft....

The thing that is really unrational is the way you want us to have peace with Israel, and break ties with Syria because of a man who appears to be more important than lebanon itself.

What is unrational is that Syria is seen as a bigger threat than Israel

What is unrational is that we shouldn't debate this because it would be considered hijacking a forum, but let's see beiruti stopping you.

lol There is a group on facebook about how the airport should be renamed
"al sayed hassan nesrallah beirut airport"! hahaha

Type: Organizations - Political Organizations
Description: it has been a long time sence its al hariri airport...but now its nesrallah airport..!

Ok, and we should do what?

nothing..just something I thought was funny, no where else to place it.

wow... dont be so naive.... both israel and hezbollah are war cravers... and the thing that pisses me off so much is that hezbollah is given credit for lebanons security from israel... which is not true because it engages us in more problems..... i agree that israel needs to give us our land back and other stuff like it... but hezbollah's idea of how to get to that objective is just unrational.

I will not take shit from a party that posts fotos of their leader with the iranian flag in the background. and they have the nerve to say they want independence from every single foreing country? pffff

:applause:

Israel hands over Lebanon cluster bomb maps: U.N.
Reuters
Tuesday, May 12, 2009






:applause:

This is a very positive development that proves that Israel is willing to concede if negotiated with properly and peacefully. This is a great victory for the Government.




UNIFIL gives LAF cluster bomb maps

May 13, 2009

UNIFIL gave maps of South Lebanon to the Lebanese Army Command on Wednesday, which show the location of cluster bombs from Israel’s attacks on Lebanon in July 2006.

The Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) are studying the maps and submitting a plan to the Lebanon Mine Action Center (LMAC). The engineering regiment in the LAF, with the cooperation of the UNIFIL, will attempt to disarm and remove the bombs.

-NOW Staff

@Melkart: Stl is the acronym for Special Tribunal for Lebanon (I think)


----------------------@Beiruti---------------------------------------

Let's be a little bit more reasonable. First of all, the meeting they had, had nothing to do with the STL of Rafic il 7ariri, etc.

Why would Syria be worried, when there is no concrete proof that Syria had anything to do with it.

Ever since those 4 generals were still under custody, Syria has been confindently denying any connections with the assassination...

So why now, after the release of the 4 generals, would Syria be worried?

The meeting was about both armies working together/supporting eachother in combating enemies, criminals, etc. They talked about Israel....

One thing I have noticed from you is that you are willing to have a peace treaty with Israel, and everytime Israel does something, you give them the benefit of the doubt.

But when it comes to Syria, the benefit of the doubt is never applied to Syrias actions, and you (and other users) will not agree to / condemn any Syrian-Lebanese reconcilliation.

This is funny because Israel did much more damage than any 90 year occupation by Syria could have done. What is it that you have against Syria?

Apparently, Rafic al 7ariri has become more important than Lebanon.

You guys complain about an enemy that is shared by the majority of Lebanese (apparently except the users in here), claiming it wants peace (Oh but the IDF drop leaflets warning the people before they destroy their homes), but when it comes to Syria (considered an enemy by a minority), you want to implement it against everyones wills.


They are trying to improve relations as much as possible before they are issued the guilty verdict from the court. It wont do much good though. For the record, both our neighbors have to make concessions before we can move forward with a peace deal.

I would love a peace treaty with Syria, but there is a lot they must do first: Admit that Shebba is Lebanese, draw the official borders, provide border security, and most importantly return our prisoners!

Israel must also return any prisoners and provide us with landmine maps and of course return Shebba - all of which can be accomplished within days of disarming you know what.

What is unrational is that we shouldn't debate this because it would be considered hijacking a forum, but let's see beiruti stopping you.


First of all, the word is irrational.

Second, I did stop him and I stopped all of you by moving the discussion here. You guys are just lucky im not in the mood to go around banning people today.

You have it backward: Israel flourishes only with war. Hezbollah is the only Lebanese party not willing to encourage them. Oh dear... this debate again.

Yeah, you are correct. The Arab attacks on Israel and their defeat(s) werer ulimatly very beneficial for Israel. Shockingly, when they sign peace trearties (or useless pieces of paer as its known to the Arabs) they end up getting terrrirotry back.

First of all, what is up with all the Syrian/Iranian phobia in these threads?


We took photos of our leaders with the Iranian flag in the background? Can I see this? Moreover, why is it such a problem? There is a picture is Saniora kissing Condiliza Rice, does that mean he wants america to invade Lebanon? Or is that ok? As long as it's not Syria and Iran? pfft....

The thing that is really unrational is the way you want us to have peace with Israel, and break ties with Syria because of a man who appears to be more important than lebanon itself.

What is unrational is that Syria is seen as a bigger threat than Israel

What is unrational is that we shouldn't debate this because it would be considered hijacking a forum, but let's see beiruti stopping you.


dude... i'm not a fan of israel nor syria... but my country needs peace and hezbollah is not capable of achieving this. I wouldnt mind at all signing a peace treaty with israel like Egypt has... look at them such peaceful relashionship without having to be BF! And I dont want to break ties with Syria, but it has to get the fact that Lebanon is independent... FYI if you ever go to the damascus airport you'll see a map of what the goverment says their country is and it includes Lebanon as an anexation of Syria... that's irrational... and you support them????


we need to put Lebanon's sake ahead of our own preference in our list of priorities.

dude... i'm not a fan of israel nor syria... but my country needs peace and hezbollah is not capable of achieving this. I wouldnt mind at all signing a peace treaty with israel like Egypt has... look at them such peaceful relashionship without having to be BF! And I dont want to break ties with Syria, but it has to get the fact that Lebanon is independent... FYI if you ever go to the damascus airport you'll see a map of what the goverment says their country is and it includes Lebanon as an anexation of Syria... that's irrational... and you support them????


we need to put Lebanon's sake ahead of our own preference in our list of priorities.

Is that true??! Is that a historical map or is it considered a modern-day map?

I know they have tours that bring foreigners to Lebanese sites and tell them "this is Syria"

^^ I couldnt find my original source but I'll be sure to post when i do... but i did find another one that states the same thing

http://www.danielpipes.org/books/greaterchap.php

first pargraph

:applause:

This is a very positive development that proves that Israel is willing to concede if negotiated with properly and peacefully. This is a great victory for the Government.

^^ They are worried about the STL.

Just one thing I noticed...You seriously believe pretty much everything Syria does has an evil secondary motive behind it and everything Israel does is out of their kindness and willingness to open doors and good relations? A stable and terror free Lebanon will benefit Syria and Lebanon. I don't see any connection between this and the STL.

First of all, what is up with all the Syrian/Iranian phobia in these threads?


We took photos of our leaders with the Iranian flag in the background? Can I see this? Moreover, why is it such a problem? There is a picture is Saniora kissing Condiliza Rice, does that mean he wants america to invade Lebanon? Or is that ok? As long as it's not Syria and Iran? pfft....

The thing that is really unrational is the way you want us to have peace with Israel, and break ties with Syria because of a man who appears to be more important than lebanon itself.

What is unrational is that Syria is seen as a bigger threat than Israel

What is unrational is that we shouldn't debate this because it would be considered hijacking a forum, but let's see beiruti stopping you.

Ali there is a difference between foreign dignateries meeting and greeting eachother, and a foreign flag posted behind a lebanese leader. so he kissed condaleeza big wooptie do. About Syria being a threat? well we don't have to worry about them taking over anymore, cause they realize that annexing Lebanon is not a possibility. what is a problem however is that they are constantly putting there noses where it doesn't belong. they don't treat us as an independent nation. also if you notice whenever a problem occurs they make it difficult for lebanese farmers to transport products into syria, reminding us of who's in charge. not to mention that there track record has been one of assasinations and a 30 year occupation of the country. so why in the world wouldn't we be cautious of them? I mean come on this is Syria we are talking about here.

Just one thing I noticed...You seriously believe pretty much everything Syria does has an evil secondary motive behind it and everything Israel does is out of their kindness and willingness to open doors and good relations? A stable and terror free Lebanon will benefit Syria and Lebanon. I don't see any connection between this and the STL.

the connection: Syria is on there best behavior, cause they don't want to be percieved as a beligerant nation that they are. I don't know, just call me crazy, but I think that's what beiruti meant!

Just one thing I noticed...You seriously believe pretty much everything Syria does has an evil secondary motive behind it and everything Israel does is out of their kindness and willingness to open doors and good relations? A stable and terror free Lebanon will benefit Syria and Lebanon. I don't see any connection between this and the STL.

You aren't the only one who seems to notice that.

He claps to "signs" and "proof" of Israel wanting "peace."

But when it comes to Syria, there is obviously a second motice.

But what do you want more from him, if he attacks Israel (like the rest of the population), he would be acknowledging the need for Hezbollah.

I am still shocked about how he could defend the IDF (I can't take it out of my mind).

Did you ONCE see Beiruti criticising the Israeli spies (not SYRIAN) recently caught? Instead he posted an article basically saying that it is all part of Hezbollah's propoganda. No, he would rather criticize Syria with unbased allegation, amid signs that Syria want's to improve their relationships, and Israel is just plain old Israel, with its empty promises about returning spies, military maneuvers, unreturned land, airspace violations.....

It's like Israel is asking for the Lebanese to verbally attack it, but Beiruti finds no one better than syria...

the connection: Syria is on there best behavior, cause they don't want to be percieved as a beligerant nation that they are. I don't know, just call me crazy, but I think that's what beiruti meant!


But why shouldn't they be on their best behavior? What are they normally like?

First of all, the word is irrational.

Second, I did stop him and I stopped all of you by moving the discussion here. You guys are just lucky im not in the mood to go around banning people today.


I know what the word is.

I had quoted phenocian, where he said

i agree that israel needs to give us our land back and other stuff like it... but hezbollah's idea of how to get to that objective is just unrational

But he recently edited it, and changed it to irrational

I wrote unrational inorder to put emphasis on the word.

And about the banning people. Hey, don't you look at me, because if you clearly look I stopped from continuing another conversation a couple of days ago, and then this one again. So I have not been going off topic.

Yeah, you are correct. The Arab attacks on Israel and their defeat(s) werer ulimatly very beneficial for Israel. Shockingly, when they sign peace trearties (or useless pieces of paer as its known to the Arabs) they end up getting terrrirotry back.


Can you cry "Anti Semitism" already, like everysingle time, and just leave.

Also, Beiruti, you are praising Israel for handing over those maps

when in the FIRST place, it wasn't supposed to have dumped those maps all over Lebanon......

and how's about that....Israel is "suspending" its withdrawel.....now THAT is politically motivated 100% ....no denying it

they suspended it inorder to see what the election results will be...they realize that Hezbollah will most likely win.....this is bullshit I tell you.

^^ ali.. take a chill pill... a lot of things you're saying are true, but that doesnt change the fact that hezbollah is not what the country needs (in my opinion). As I said earlier, neither Israel nor Syria should interfere with Lebanon... it just seems that Syria - like it always has - is trying to become GREATER syria by meddling with Lebanons politics. Noone should.

^^ ali.. take a chill pill... a lot of things you're saying are true, but that doesnt change the fact that hezbollah is not what the country needs (in my opinion). As I said earlier, neither Israel nor Syria should interfere with Lebanon... it just seems that Syria - like it always has - is trying to become GREATER syria by meddling with Lebanons politics. Noone should.


I made bold a key word, in your opinion. Let's just wait for the elections, and then we could know what the Lebanese want, and what is best for Lebanon. I want to hear our president say something about Syria....because he has only been praising the ties with it and thanking the Syrian army...

--------------------
Three new spy cells uncovered today

It's sad to hear this propoganda of a tripartite division of power....I mean, COMON ?? Do you guys actually believe this?

Also, people are getting text messages saying Vote for March 14 IF you don't want Michel Suleiman's term to be cut....I mean...SERIOUSLY??

Can you cry "Anti Semitism" already, like everysingle time, and just leave.

What did you want me to scream, Jihad?

But why shouldn't they be on their best behavior? What are they normally like?


read my responce above i gave some examples of what there like. but what the hay i'll add some more examples. Remeber we were supposed to get a shipment of natural gas at a low cost from syria to power our electric plants. well they reneged on the deal, cause apparently we are not pleasing them. making it difficult for lebanese farmers to export produce via Syrian border. basicly it's there way of bullying us into submission. lebanese prisoners in the hundreds in syrian jails, missing since god knows when. tortured and prevented from contacting any of there relatives. 30 year occupation, including an attempt to annex Lebanon. 1 million illegal syrian workers! assasination attempts. bashir gemayel, I won't mention Hariri since i know ur stance on this one, Rachid Karami, kamal jimblat, and many more! what else would u like me to state. on another note the same way the southerners were affrected by the israeli occupation, us northerners lived under syrian dominance. and let me tell u it was better to live in hell rather than to be there slaves. they were brutal, we lived under constant fear of the moukhabarat who infiltrated every neighborhood. I think this is enough.

Also, Beiruti, you are praising Israel for handing over those maps

when in the FIRST place, it wasn't supposed to have dumped those maps all over Lebanon......

and how's about that....Israel is "suspending" its withdrawel.....now THAT is politically motivated 100% ....no denying it

they suspended it inorder to see what the election results will be...they realize that Hezbollah will most likely win.....this is bullshit I tell you.

ali beiruti isn't praising israel. He is pointing out that only diplomacy works. in his case he is praising the march 14 th movemenet for aquiring the maps through negotiations. I didn't hear him once state that israel should be lauded for there actions. as matter of fact they should have handed there maps from day one.

It's sad to hear this propoganda of a tripartite division of power....I mean, COMON ?? Do you guys actually believe this?

Also, people are getting text messages saying Vote for March 14 IF you don't want Michel Suleiman's term to be cut....I mean...SERIOUSLY??

the opposition spent more money on there campaigns and aquired more tv coverage than march 14th! 54% of all tv political adds were presented by the opposotion. so all that hipe about hariri spending his millions on the campaign is justified, cause apparently the opposition has lots more to spend.

What did you want me to scream, Jihad?

your behavior and replies are causing more damage to the Israeli image than it's helping!

Please leave

your behavior and replies are causing more damage to the Israeli image than it's helping!

Please leave

I completely agree!!!!!

I made bold a key word, in your opinion. Let's just wait for the elections, and then we could know what the Lebanese want, and what is best for Lebanon. I want to hear our president say something about Syria....because he has only been praising the ties with it and thanking the Syrian army...

--------------------
Three new spy cells uncovered today

btw our president is neutral so mawjoud aw mesh mawjoud he doesn't make any difference since he doesn't state his opinion about anything out of 'fear' of upsetting one or the other...so what's his use? It's not about what the Lebanese want, it's about how sheepish people are in following every word their 'leaders' say...it's sad I know, but it even happens in Italy actually...how do you think Berlusconi got re-elected being a complete dumbass?

the connection: Syria is on there best behavior, cause they don't want to be percieved as a beligerant nation that they are. I don't know, just call me crazy, but I think that's what beiruti meant!

This security agreement is beneficial for Lebanon and its citizens should welcome this good behavior from the belligerent nation just like Lebanon welcomes the good behavior of our belligerent neighbor to the South's for handing over those maps.

This security agreement is beneficial for Lebanon and its citizens should welcome this good behavior from the belligerent nation just like Lebanon welcomes the good behavior of our belligerent neighbor to the South's for handing over those maps.

Umm we welcome any peace gesture from Syria even the long awaited embassy openings. but there still lots of things to be done. throwing us a bone, isn't enough to convince us that they are legit. no one is against security cooperation. but they still haven't extradited some fugitives like ali jaafar. Syria is in complete control of there border they can turn the switch on and off. most of the al quaida terrorists came to lebanon through syria. and escaped to syria during the nahr al barid seige. so if syria is legit they need to stop sending terrorists into lebanon. just cause they are pretending to be our buddies and posing for some photo shoots, doesn't make them sincere. there past history will make us think twice when striking deals with our beloved sisterly nation that is called syria.

ali beiruti isn't praising israel. He is pointing out that only diplomacy works. in his case he is praising the march 14 th movemenet for aquiring the maps through negotiations. I didn't hear him once state that israel should be lauded for there actions. as matter of fact they should have handed there maps from day one.

Actually, Beiruti has openly praised the IDF over the Lebanese Hezbollah. Saying that atleast the IDF warns the lebanese before they strike...oh yea, they warn them before they are about to destroy their homes.

And March 14 had NOTHING to do with the handing over of the maps. Israel just did this out of nowhere, the UN has been asking for them for years...but Israel never gave them.

It is obviously politically motivated....

and about the returning of Ghajar...you see...they are purposely stalling the whole thing.

Actually, Beiruti has openly praised the IDF over the Lebanese Hezbollah. Saying that atleast the IDF warns the lebanese before they strike...oh yea, they warn them before they are about to destroy their homes.

And March 14 had NOTHING to do with the handing over of the maps. Israel just did this out of nowhere, the UN has been asking for them for years...but Israel never gave them.

It is obviously politically motivated....

and about the returning of Ghajar...you see...they are purposely stalling the whole thing.


ali the israelis feel threatened about the elections. they know hisballah might win big. so they are trying to make the lebanese people think twice about voting for them. that's all. they 'll return ghajar if there was no threat. but let's face it hisballah is a big threat for alot of people not just israel.

Umm we welcome any peace gesture from Syria even the long awaited embassy openings. but there still lots of things to be done. throwing us a bone, isn't enough to convince us that they are legit. no one is against security cooperation. but they still haven't extradited some fugitives like ali jaafar. Syria is in complete control of there border they can turn the switch on and off. most of the al quaida terrorists came to lebanon through syria. and escaped to syria during the nahr al barid seige. so if syria is legit they need to stop sending terrorists into lebanon. just cause they are pretending to be our buddies and posing for some photo shoots, doesn't make them sincere. there past history will make us think twice when striking deals with our beloved sisterly nation that is called syria.

Ok....so why do you (plural) believe Israel so badly...?? When according to history....they are good for nothing pieces of.........

Ok....so why do you (plural) believe Israel so badly...?? When according to history....they are good for nothing pieces of.........

it's not a matter of believing israel or not ali! but Israel is part of the international community, and is pressured by nations like the west and the US. if we demonstrate that our goal is to aquire our land back through negotiations, they will back our decisions. but hisballah is giving them an excuse to hold on to those territories. I know and u know that the israelis would like to keep ghajar so they could control the wazani tributery. I am not naive in that aspect. but hisballah is not part of the solution they are part of the problem. besides like i said earlier think big picture!!! we can't harp on small details we need to build a nation first. ghajar and shebaa are not worth putting our nation in jeopardy nor is it worth the billions in dollars of revenues we can be making through tourism and devlopment. if we approach this matter peacefully and through negotiations they'll have no choice but to leave. remeber there are lots of american lebanese politicians that can help in this as well. but right now everyone sees hisballah as a threat. so they are not willing to support us 100% yet. israel will continue its violations, using the pretext of being threatened.

Melkart i am starting to think you are seriously pro-Israeli :ohno:

^^not supporting hizballa blindly does not make you pro-israeli, the world is not that black and white people...wake up

Thats what alot of March 8 think if your against them you got to be Pro-Israeli

Thats what alot of March 8 think if your against them you got to be Pro-Israeli

By the way i am neutral i just speak about when i believe something some of you say dosent make sense. my family is split %50 is support 8 while the other %50 support 14 , so that makes me neutral :lol:

^^not supporting hizballa blindly does not make you pro-israeli, the world is not that black and white people...wake up

Thats not what i mean, Go ahead deny whoever you want, but i was trying to make a point because melkart actually recognized something called Israel by saying "Israel is part of the international community" which technically means that he recognizes something called Israel which by the way is Lebanon's Enemy, and by recognizing something that the Lebanese government considers an enemy that must mean that Melkart is pro-Israeli

By the way i am neutral i just speak about when i believe something some of you say dosent make sense. my family is split %50 is support 8 while the other %50 support 14 , so that makes me neutral :lol:

My Family

Mothers sides: March 14 with one member March 8
Fathers side: majority March 8 ... I think.

My Family

Mothers sides: March 14 with one member March 8
Fathers side: majority March 8 ... I think.


Mother Side: March 14
Fathers Side: March 14 and March 8....they have a March 8 candidate (Kamal El Kheir) and they have a March 14 MP (Saleh El Kheir)

btw our president is neutral so mawjoud aw mesh mawjoud he doesn't make any difference since he doesn't state his opinion about anything out of 'fear' of upsetting one or the other...so what's his use? It's not about what the Lebanese want, it's about how sheepish people are in following every word their 'leaders' say...it's sad I know, but it even happens in Italy actually...how do you think Berlusconi got re-elected being a complete dumbass?


Yes our President might be neutral, but he still says Israel is the enemy...on the other hand....Syria is praised...I mean comon....some users over here try to make it seem like Israel and Syria are at the same levels...which clearly this proves they are not..

What I find really rediculous is that amid the discoveries of many Israeli spy networks...users are indifferend about these findings...and find nobody better but Syria to criticize...

And btw...on my part, I will not recognize Israel except for what it really is...I don't care if it is backed by the west...I will not eat into my enemies hands just inorder to get the approval of the west

Again, I will say, the Elections are right around the corner...

hey ali comment on this.... i would love to hear your oppinion



read my responce above i gave some examples of what there like. but what the hay i'll add some more examples. Remeber we were supposed to get a shipment of natural gas at a low cost from syria to power our electric plants. well they reneged on the deal, cause apparently we are not pleasing them. making it difficult for lebanese farmers to export produce via Syrian border. basicly it's there way of bullying us into submission. lebanese prisoners in the hundreds in syrian jails, missing since god knows when. tortured and prevented from contacting any of there relatives. 30 year occupation, including an attempt to annex Lebanon. 1 million illegal syrian workers! assasination attempts. bashir gemayel, I won't mention Hariri since i know ur stance on this one, Rachid Karami, kamal jimblat, and many more! what else would u like me to state. on another note the same way the southerners were affrected by the israeli occupation, us northerners lived under syrian dominance. and let me tell u it was better to live in hell rather than to be there slaves. they were brutal, we lived under constant fear of the moukhabarat who infiltrated every neighborhood. I think this is enough.

By the way i am neutral i just speak about when i believe something some of you say dosent make sense. my family is split %50 is support 8 while the other %50 support 14 , so that makes me neutral :lol:

ok abdallah what did I write to make u think that I was pro Israeli! I want specifics, otherwise what you write will be ignored as utter nonsence.

Again, I will say, the Elections are right around the corner...

Oh Ali I have been saying that all along so there! :nuts:

Mother Side: March 14
Fathers Side: March 14 and March 8....they have a March 8 candidate (Kamal El Kheir) and they have a March 14 MP (Saleh El Kheir)

Abdallah most lebanese families are split. so is mine. what is ur point again? :cheers:

Yes our President might be neutral, but he still says Israel is the enemy...on the other hand....Syria is praised...I mean comon....some users over here try to make it seem like Israel and Syria are at the same levels...which clearly this proves they are not..

What I find really rediculous is that amid the discoveries of many Israeli spy networks...users are indifferend about these findings...and find nobody better but Syria to criticize...

And btw...on my part, I will not recognize Israel except for what it really is...I don't care if it is backed by the west...I will not eat into my enemies hands just inorder to get the approval of the west

Ali that's because the president has the common sence not to commit political suicide. what do u want him to do praise israel? do u know any politicians in lebanon that are praising israel?

Abdallah most lebanese families are split. so is mine. what is ur point again? :cheers:

His point is that he is neutral

Edited.

His point is that he is neutral

well in that case I am neutral too! It was a rhetorical question Ali. I read what he said.

Thats not what i mean, Go ahead deny whoever you want, but i was trying to make a point because melkart actually recognized something called Israel by saying "Israel is part of the international community" which technically means that he recognizes something called Israel which by the way is Lebanon's Enemy, and by recognizing something that the Lebanese government considers an enemy that must mean that Melkart is pro-Israeli

That doesn't make sence! are you just twisting words and utter nonsence to complicate the debate. How about adding some substance to this debate and give us something to work with. It doesn't matter whether I recognize the state of israel or not. what difference does it make they exist whether we like it or not. ignoring it won't make it go away. otherwise I would have ignored Syria, but unfortunatly that's not gonna happen. anyway when I said Israel is internationally recognized, I mean literally It is a memeber of The UN. so if I refer to it as palestine everyone will think that the palestinians are occupying Ghajar. Get it???? :bash:

His point is that he is neutral

since ur here ali how about commenting about my responce to ur question regarding Syria our beloved sisterly nation. (sorry I keep refering to it that way cause they made us sing a song about how sisterly syria was to lebanon)

since ur here ali how about commenting about my responce to ur question regarding Syria our beloved sisterly nation. (sorry I keep refering to it that way cause they made us sing a song about how sisterly syria was to lebanon)

Ali is not currently here right now. I am just his personal assistant :lol:

I don't know what to tell you. I mean, alot of those things are questionable, but I will not make believe that Syria was an angel when they occupied Lebanon. I want Syria to be our friend, but of course not invade our country. My argument is that there is a difference between Syria and Israel, we must make this difference clear, and not just treat both as enemies.

Syria, I see peace with it possible and beneficial for many reasons. It is an Arab country, it has opened up embassies, our president has welcomed/praised relationships, many Lebanese support such relationships, and as brutal as Syria might have been, it could never be compared to Israel. Honestly, the biggest argument against Syria right now isn't the captured prisoners, it is the assassination of Rafic al 7ariri. Once this is cleared, I assure you, if Syria is innocent...I assure you, accusations against it will only start to fade

Israel...I don't even want to start with Israel.

And believe me..it isn't just because I am Muslim...

Shortly after setting ablaze the house the MP Ibrahim Kenaan’s family home, two more attacks against the Free Patriotic Movement and the Islamic Labor Front took place Thursday.
The first attack targeted an FPM office in Iqlim el Kharroub’s town of Mazboud, north of Sidon. The assailants had stormed into the office and beat the guard, Ahmed Rabbani, before torching the place and open fire at its direction.
The Free Patriotic Movement, headed by MP Michel Aoun, issued a statement and entrusted uncovering the circumstances of the attack to concerned security forces. The statement urged putting an end to “security zones” in the Ne’meh region where FPM billboards have been under frequent attacks.
The second attack saw the burning of ILF member Fadi Kolagassi’s car in the same town. Kolagassi and his family, who were asleep, miraculously escaped death after the fire was extinguished before burning his residence.
A series of aggressive acts had taken place recently in Iqlim el-Kharroub and Chouf regions, where March 14 loyalists are active
--------------------------------

Ali is not currently here right now. I am just his personal assistant :lol:

I don't know what to tell you. I mean, alot of those things are questionable, but I will not make believe that Syria was an angel when they occupied Lebanon. I want Syria to be our friend, but of course not invade our country. My argument is that there is a difference between Syria and Israel, we must make this difference clear, and not just treat both as enemies.

Syria, I see peace with it possible and beneficial for many reasons. It is an Arab country, it has opened up embassies, our president has welcomed/praised relationships, many Lebanese support such relationships, and as brutal as Syria might have been, it could never be compared to Israel. Honestly, the biggest argument against Syria right now isn't the captured prisoners, it is the assassination of Rafic al 7ariri. Once this is cleared, I assure you, if Syria is innocent...I assure you, accusations against it will only start to fade

Israel...I don't even want to start with Israel.

And believe me..it isn't just because I am Muslim...


Dude! what kind of responce is that? because syria opened an embassy in lebanon that makes it legit. we have been independant since 1943. It's about time they established diplomatic ties with us. and so what if everyone has issues with syria cause of hariri. are u saying that the missing is not a reason to question syria. wait syria gets positive points for just being arab? and if israel is worse than syria. Does that make syria a great nation? u need to up the standards a bit. I listed a whole bunch of stuff about what syria did and all u can come up with is that syria was no angel, but israel is worse? LOL WTF?

Dude! what kind of responce is that? because syria opened an embassy in lebanon that makes it legit. we have been independant since 1943. It's about time they established diplomatic ties with us. and so what if everyone has issues with syria cause of hariri. are u saying that the missing is not a reason to question syria. wait syria gets positive points for just being arab? and if israel is worse than syria. Does that make syria a great nation? u need to up the standards a bit. I listed a whole bunch of stuff about what syria did and all u can come up with is that syria was no angel, but israel is worse? LOL WTF?

Look "Dude," Syria isn't doing Shit right now for you to be accusing it of crap. You need to up your standards a bit and put Lebanon before America. Syria never did the stuff Israel did and IS doing. I am not giving it special recognition because it is Arab, but it is a unifying factor, no doubt about it. We have similar goals to establish.

You on the other hand, seem to be paying a little bit too much attention to Syria, when right now it isn't doing crap. It isn't even on the NEWS...at the same time, when it is Israeli cells being captured (Not Syrian). Yet you are indifferent about it, and you don't think it is an achievment (I wonder why?). You (PLURAL) neglect the fact that EVERY single day Israel is violating our Territory. But why would you care about that? Go party in your night clubs while South Lebanon (or according to certain members in here, Hezbollistan) is being bombed to the ground.

It is obvious that your accusations against syria aren't for the sake of Lebanon, but for the sake of politics...they are Politically motivated...you just never mention the real enemy, who is shared by all Lebanese, Israel. You even claimed that Israel is just my scapegoat....hmm...are you denying Israel's status as the Enemy of Lebanon?? You don't want Hezbollah, you want the country to go your way, you think that once Hezbollah leaves, Lebanon becomes a better world, prosperous, blah blah..that is why you completely deny anything guy tells you about the outcomes of Hezbollah disarming, because that is what concerns you, Hezbollah disarming, but not the aftermath. You don't care about how vulnerable Lebanon will be then, and you just think that Israel will magically stop its aggressions.. and thus, without Hezbollah, the country goes your way, and we get the approval of the oh so kind west.

I bet you are one of those who whenever mentioning that Lebanon is in the Middle east, you quickly mention "Oh it's a really European country" (as if you were to seek acceptance from them). How about you mention stuff which are actually proven....instead of just sounding like a geagea minimee, who is oh so knowledgable about Syria and the people it sends into Lebanon.
March 14 can only bullshit about Syria until a certain extent....


Maybe you didn't notice, but ever since you came here, I have been refraining from intense debates with you for certain reasons.


And you might as well openly praise Israel, because from what you've shown here, you might hate Israel in some aspects, but they sure aren't political.


And by the way, I have been saying Let's wait until the campaign elections before you even set your eyes on this forum.

Look "Dude," Syria isn't doing Shit right now for you to be accusing it of crap. You need to up your standards a bit and put Lebanon before America. Syria never did the stuff Israel did and IS doing. I am not giving it special recognition because it is Arab, but it is a unifying factor, no doubt about it. We have similar goals to establish.

You on the other hand, seem to be paying a little bit too much attention to Syria, when right now it isn't doing crap. It isn't even on the NEWS...at the same time, when it is Israeli cells being captured (Not Syrian). Yet you are indifferent about it, and you don't think it is an achievment (I wonder why?). You (PLURAL) neglect the fact that EVERY single day Israel is violating our Territory. But why would you care about that? Go party in your night clubs while South Lebanon (or according to certain members in here, Hezbollistan) is being bombed to the ground.

It is obvious that your accusations against syria aren't for the sake of Lebanon, but for the sake of politics...they are Politically motivated...you just never mention the real enemy, who is shared by all Lebanese, Israel. You even claimed that Israel is just my scapegoat....hmm...are you denying Israel's status as the Enemy of Lebanon?? You don't want Hezbollah, you want the country to go your way, you think that once Hezbollah leaves, Lebanon becomes a better world, prosperous, blah blah..that is why you completely deny anything guy tells you about the outcomes of Hezbollah disarming, because that is what concerns you, Hezbollah disarming, but not the aftermath. You don't care about how vulnerable Lebanon will be then, and you just think that Israel will magically stop its aggressions.. and thus, without Hezbollah, the country goes your way, and we get the approval of the oh so kind west.

I bet you are one of those who whenever mentioning that Lebanon is in the Middle east, you quickly mention "Oh it's a really European country" (as if you were to seek acceptance from them). How about you mention stuff which are actually proven....instead of just sounding like a geagea minimee, who is oh so knowledgable about Syria and the people it sends into Lebanon.
March 14 can only bullshit about Syria until a certain extent....


Maybe you didn't notice, but ever since you came here, I have been refraining from intense debates with you for certain reasons.


And you might as well openly praise Israel, because from what you've shown here, you might hate Israel in some aspects, but they sure aren't political.


And by the way, I have been saying Let's wait until the campaign elections before you even set your eyes on this forum.


Ali dont even start by trying to say that Syria didnt do as bad things as Israel... COME ON GET REAL

And if you wanna talk about finding common ground between two countries to in a way "justify" an apology... you have to mention the fact that Israel and Lebanon are the two exceptions in the middle east...

but that doesnt help Israel for all the selfish acts it did... nor does it help Syria.

If you notice the discussion here is weather were pro syria or not... and at least Im not... YOU NEED TO PUT LEBANON AHEAD OF SYRIA and stop defending it... i havent heard you comment of any of the hundreds accusations that are made towards Syria (not including the Hariri murder) TRY IT.

FYI haha if the embasies opened.. it was to tell syria WERE NOT A PART OF YOUR COUNTRY that is why we have to open embasies.. why do you think they have been so hesitant in having official diplomatic relations with us??? because that would officially recognize us as an independent state... not because were BFF

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT

Look "Dude," Syria isn't doing Shit right now for you to be accusing it of crap. You need to up your standards a bit and put Lebanon before America. Syria never did the stuff Israel did and IS doing. I am not giving it special recognition because it is Arab, but it is a unifying factor, no doubt about it. We have similar goals to establish.

You on the other hand, seem to be paying a little bit too much attention to Syria, when right now it isn't doing crap. It isn't even on the NEWS...at the same time, when it is Israeli cells being captured (Not Syrian). Yet you are indifferent about it, and you don't think it is an achievment (I wonder why?). You (PLURAL) neglect the fact that EVERY single day Israel is violating our Territory. But why would you care about that? Go party in your night clubs while South Lebanon (or according to certain members in here, Hezbollistan) is being bombed to the ground.

It is obvious that your accusations against syria aren't for the sake of Lebanon, but for the sake of politics...they are Politically motivated...you just never mention the real enemy, who is shared by all Lebanese, Israel. You even claimed that Israel is just my scapegoat....hmm...are you denying Israel's status as the Enemy of Lebanon?? You don't want Hezbollah, you want the country to go your way, you think that once Hezbollah leaves, Lebanon becomes a better world, prosperous, blah blah..that is why you completely deny anything guy tells you about the outcomes of Hezbollah disarming, because that is what concerns you, Hezbollah disarming, but not the aftermath. You don't care about how vulnerable Lebanon will be then, and you just think that Israel will magically stop its aggressions.. and thus, without Hezbollah, the country goes your way, and we get the approval of the oh so kind west.

I bet you are one of those who whenever mentioning that Lebanon is in the Middle east, you quickly mention "Oh it's a really European country" (as if you were to seek acceptance from them). How about you mention stuff which are actually proven....instead of just sounding like a geagea minimee, who is oh so knowledgable about Syria and the people it sends into Lebanon.
March 14 can only bullshit about Syria until a certain extent....


Maybe you didn't notice, but ever since you came here, I have been refraining from intense debates with you for certain reasons.


And you might as well openly praise Israel, because from what you've shown here, you might hate Israel in some aspects, but they sure aren't political.


And by the way, I have been saying Let's wait until the campaign elections before you even set your eyes on this forum.

well I am sipping my coffee at the momment, cause you know I was at he nightclub last night and I am suffering from a major hangover. I can't wait to party it up again. cause u know us christians are so deviant we like sex drugs and rock and roll. damn Ali you got me all figured out!

ok I'll get serious now! for the millionth of time Israel bombed Lebanon because of Hizballah!! they abducted two israeli soldiers, unfortunatly innocent shiites paid the price instead, cause Hizb didn't have the balls as a conventional army to confront the enemy head on . instead they used hit and run tactics. hid in people's houses, and launched missiles from residential neighborhoods. No it doesn't give the israelis the right to murder innocent civilians and destroy there livelihoods by littering the south with millions of clusterbombs. or blowing up oil tanks that polluted our cities and water. But It's Hisballah who instigated it all. They are willing to sacrifice the entire nation for a small peace of land called shebaa. this is why we don't buy any of this crap. cause there are other motives, behind all this. It's called Iran. BTW Syria left because we kicked them out, it's not like they had an epiphany and befriended us all of a sudden. The truth is many Lebanese dislike Syria, but the so called resistance is an ally of the syrians. WHY? cause it's through Syria That hisb gets there weapons. It's through Syria That Hisb can interact with Iran. without Syria Hisb will be powerless. they can turn u guys on and off. that's why u like them so much!

^^ Well,,,that's not necessary arcg 14 supporters action , no ??
besides,in the south all Anti-Hizbullah cars are being set on fire everyday.

Ali dont even start by trying to say that Syria didnt do as bad things as Israel... COME ON GET REAL

And if you wanna talk about finding common ground between two countries to in a way "justify" an apology... you have to mention the fact that Israel and Lebanon are the two exceptions in the middle east...

but that doesnt help Israel for all the selfish acts it did... nor does it help Syria.

If you notice the discussion here is weather were pro syria or not... and at least Im not... YOU NEED TO PUT LEBANON AHEAD OF SYRIA and stop defending it... i havent heard you comment of any of the hundreds accusations that are made towards Syria (not including the Hariri murder) TRY IT.

FYI haha if the embasies opened.. it was to tell syria WERE NOT A PART OF YOUR COUNTRY that is why we have to open embasies.. why do you think they have been so hesitant in having official diplomatic relations with us??? because that would officially recognize us as an independent state... not because were BFF

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT


:applause:

Umm we welcome any peace gesture from Syria even the long awaited embassy openings. but there still lots of things to be done. throwing us a bone, isn't enough to convince us that they are legit. no one is against security cooperation. but they still haven't extradited some fugitives like ali jaafar. Syria is in complete control of there border they can turn the switch on and off. most of the al quaida terrorists came to lebanon through syria. and escaped to syria during the nahr al barid seige. so if syria is legit they need to stop sending terrorists into lebanon. just cause they are pretending to be our buddies and posing for some photo shoots, doesn't make them sincere. there past history will make us think twice when striking deals with our beloved sisterly nation that is called syria.

Where's the proof that the Syrian government is sending al qaedia terrorists to Lebanon? Al Qaedia groups hate Syria because of their secular, nationalist ideology and because of a crackdown by Hafez Assad in the 1980's. The militants also reject the rule of the Assad family because they are Alawite. The main Al Qaedia affiliated groups in Lebanon is Jund ash Sham (FEI's self proclaimed allies) has actually has attacked Syria several times and even HA in 2004. Syria and Al Qaedia hate each other and have no overlap in goals. Which Al Qaedia group do you think they sent to Lebanon and why?

Secondly, the Syrian border is not controlled. Smugglers cross back and forth without being seen both ways across the border all the time. Thats how there are so many Iraqi refugees illegally in Lebanon.

OK.... Syria did do MANY things in Lebanon, but i am EXTREMELY SURE Israel's done x10 worse ( 2006 war, All those spies, April War in 1996, 1982-2000 involvement in the Lebanese Civil war and occupation of South Lebanon until the year 2000) I am not trying to praise Syria or anything like that. I am just trying to show you how wrong some of you are by claiming Syria is worse than Israel. Yes Syria also did many things in Lebanon, but there not as bad as Israel. Use common sense guys.

OK.... Syria did do MANY things in Lebanon, but i am EXTREMELY SURE Israel's done x10 worse ( 2006 war, All those spies, April War in 1996, 1982-2000 involvement in the Lebanese Civil war and occupation of South Lebanon until the year 2000) I am not trying to praise Syria or anything like that. I am just trying to show you how wrong some of you are by claiming Syria is worse than Israel. Yes Syria also did many things in Lebanon, but there not as bad as Israel. Use common sense guys.

I'm probably going to get attacked for saying this but that is true. Look at how Lebanon was able to rebuild itself and its infrastructure in areas under Syrian occupation and simply look at how areas under Israeli occupation and how they were left behind. Syria did do bad things as was mentioned earlier. No denying it. But Israeli occupation was more destructive to Lebanon. They did everything Syria did but on a wider and more extreme scale

^^ The issue that Melkart, etc are trying to address is that Syria and Israel are different, and how come every time Syria is criticized, Israel is brought up. This debate had nothing to do with Israel. People need to look at these cases seperately and stop using one to put the other in so-called perspective.

I'm probably going to get attacked for saying this but that is true. Look at how Lebanon was able to rebuild itself and its infrastructure in areas under Syrian occupation and simply look at how areas under Israeli occupation and how they were left behind. Syria did do bad things as was mentioned earlier. No denying it. But Israeli occupation was more destructive to Lebanon. They did everything Syria did but on a wider and more extreme scale

:applause:

well I am sipping my coffee at the momment, cause you know I was at he nightclub last night and I am suffering from a major hangover. I can't wait to party it up again. cause u know us christians are so deviant we like sex drugs and rock and roll. damn Ali you got me all figured out!

ok I'll get serious now! for the millionth of time Israel bombed Lebanon because of Hizballah!! they abducted two israeli soldiers, unfortunatly innocent shiites paid the price instead, cause Hizb didn't have the balls as a conventional army to confront the enemy head on . instead they used hit and run tactics. hid in people's houses, and launched missiles from residential neighborhoods. No it doesn't give the israelis the right to murder innocent civilians and destroy there livelihoods by littering the south with millions of clusterbombs. or blowing up oil tanks that polluted our cities and water. But It's Hisballah who instigated it all. They are willing to sacrifice the entire nation for a small peace of land called shebaa. this is why we don't buy any of this crap. cause there are other motives, behind all this. It's called Iran. BTW Syria left because we kicked them out, it's not like they had an epiphany and befriended us all of a sudden. The truth is many Lebanese dislike Syria, but the so called resistance is an ally of the syrians. WHY? cause it's through Syria That hisb gets there weapons. It's through Syria That Hisb can interact with Iran. without Syria Hisb will be powerless. they can turn u guys on and off. that's why u like them so much!

You are so full of .......let me not say it...

Where in the world did I say Christians? Where did I address you as a Christian? Where did I mention alcohol? Stop putting words into my mouth.

And WOW...you sounded like Shimon Perez....Wow.

This stuff about Hezbollah is BS. And if you even had a little knowledge about Hezbollah, you would know that all this crap about Hezbollah firing rockets in residential neighborhoods is total BS. Can you prove it to me? You can't prove crap.

Debating you is like ramming into a wall! :bash:

I'm probably going to get attacked for saying this but that is true. Look at how Lebanon was able to rebuild itself and its infrastructure in areas under Syrian occupation and simply look at how areas under Israeli occupation and how they were left behind. Syria did do bad things as was mentioned earlier. No denying it. But Israeli occupation was more destructive to Lebanon. They did everything Syria did but on a wider and more extreme scale


Their party depends on the condemnation of Syria inorder to survive. If there was any threat possesed by Syria years ago, it does not exist today. Unlike Israel.

I post the artcle, I dont think were allowed but the head line was

Nasrallah hails May 7 as 'glorious day' for Resistance

Jayme hails Nasrallah ... An idoit.

^^ The issue that Melkart, etc are trying to address is that Syria and Israel are different, and how come every time Syria is criticized, Israel is brought up. This debate had nothing to do with Israel. People need to look at these cases seperately and stop using one to put the other in so-called perspective.



The real question is that why amid of all the attention on Israel and its MOVEMENTS in Lebanon, do you (plural) talk about Syria? It makes no sense.

And to you Bieruti: why is it that everything Syria does always bad, with an evil motive, while everything Israel does is proof that they want peace and stability in the region.

I post the artcle, I dont think were allowed but the head line was

Nasrallah hails May 7 as 'glorious day' for Resistance

Jayme hails Nasrallah ... A fucking wanker.


I7tirim 7alak Ba2a

Lek I hail you as a ....you don't want to know what I hail you as

Yes, May 7 was a beautiful day, I liked the fact that Hezbollah was able to make your brave zu3ran surrender, and then gave your weapons to the Jiesh. Beautiful. ;) :applause:

And I am expecting Jayme to recieve something for that comment, it oh so hurts my feelings and offends me. :ohno:

ok I changed it.. to idoit a far less "graphic" word then wanker.... but I still say worst things about him... I mean worst things about that...person.

I dont know how some people loved the May 7th events. I had long debates about this in Lebanon with my friends. (yes my friends are March 8)

It puzzles me how much a terrable day is amazing.

^^ Well,,,that's not necessary arcg 14 supporters action , no ??
besides,in the south all Anti-Hizbullah cars are being set on fire everyday.


Oh, thanks for sharing your Bullshit with me, I really appreciate it.

ok I changed it.. to idoit a far less "graphic" word then wanker.

I dont know how some people loved the May 7th events. I had long debates about this in Lebanon with my friends. (yes my friends are March 8)

It puzzles me how much a terrable day is amazing.

Because LBC and the Future TV hyped the whole thing up. Why do you think Hezbollah even attacked Future TV? To send out a message? Because all of the crap that was comming out was nonesense over nonesense. They blamed everything on Hezbollah.

If you look at it through our perspectives, we were defending ourselves. And moreover, Hezbollah practically disarmed Zu3ran in the streets and gave their arms to the Jiesh.

Hezbollah basicly declared war on the Lebanese goverment.. they started the whole thing When they goverment wanted to disable there phone lines They have no right to have there own "private phonelines". They used a general work strike..to couse chaos in Beirut. Hezbollah only know how to use wepons and violence to slove problems. sadly Michel Aoun ( who I think was some sort of brain disorder cousing him to say such crazy things) who is like a sheep that just follows.

^^

Um, those werent regular phonelines, One

Two, when Sanyoora came into office, in his speech, he vowed to provide Hezbollah with all the resources and space needed to protect the country

three, Oh yes, I so agree with you ...Hezbollah...they are just a pack of barbarians...

these are the same barbarians who are supported by the majority of the country...tisk tisk...

four, before you talk about Michel Aoun, you have everysingle one of your leaders to talk about....

the famous Ja3ja3 ...Akeed akeed akeed, ma fi shak ma fi shak ma fi shak, inoo you know how I am talking about......

the famous junblat mouu hek.....la2 moo hek.....mballa hek.....

and the most famous one...who doesn't know a single thing about politics....and that if he didn't have money, he would still be in kindergarden still learning his alphabets....

talk about your own leaders before talking about others

Hezbollah chief Hasan Nasrallah vowed Friday to work on building a "strong and just state" in Lebanon, local Al-Manar TV reported.

"Our responsibility is to build a strong and just state, strength without justice is tyranny, and justice without strength is incapable," Nasrallah said in a graduation ceremony of 2883 Hezbollah students in the southern suburbs of Beirut.

Addressing Lebanese groups which doubt the ruling coalition's capabilities of leading the country, he said "we want to share power with the others, but if they don not want our invitation we will not beg them to join."

To those who are betting that the opposition would fail, Nasrallah said "the minds, hearts willpower and strength of those who defeated the strongest army in the region (Israel), backed by the top superpower (the U.S.), are capable of managing a country 100 times bigger than Lebanon."

Hezbollah claim they defeated the Israeli army in the 34-day war in 2006.

Nasrallah stressed that the Lebanese people from all parties and sect share "common interest in security, stability, freedom, sovereignty, education and economy," adding "the Lebanese may have differences in expressions and diagnosis, but they are one people. "

He added that Hezbollah have rejected the division of Lebanon and shall always do so, refusing any attempt to establish a federation system in the country.

Nasrallah called for "partnership" in leading the country no matter who wins the upcoming parliamentary elections on June 7.

I'm curious to see what the opposition is going to achieve in these four years to come if they win...All I see is more wars with Israel.

It's because all you want to see from Hezbollah is wars. You are forcing yourself to view Hezbollah as uncivilized muslims, and you don't look at the stuff they actually do.