[Enter at Your Own Risk] (EAYOR) [Archive] - Page 9

Hassoun

May 25th, 2009, 04:26 PM

Abdallah K.

May 25th, 2009, 04:39 PM

"الجمهورية الثالثة" أم "الجمهورية الإيرانية الثابتة في لبنان"؟!

قبل أيام، وتحديدا في 21 أيار الجاري، أوردت وكالة الأنباء الإيرانية "ايرنا" ما حرفيته: "إن انتصار مشروع إيران في لبنان سيعطي إشارة البدء لانتصارها في كلّ مكان"!!

بدورها دعت صحيفة "كيهان" المقربة من المرشد الاعلى للثورة الاسلامية آية الله علي خامنئي قبل أسابيع قليلة "الى تغيير موازين السلطة في لبنان لمصلحة الطائفة الشيعية"، معتبرة أنه في ظل النظام الاستراتيجي الجديد الذي برز في الشرق الاوسط يجب أن يكون للشيعة في لبنان أكبر حصة في المؤسسات الحكومية والرسمية. لذلك يجب تغيير المؤسسات انطلاقا من تعديل اتفاق الطائف". وتضيف الصحيفة: "ان الشيعة يمثلون اليوم 40 في المئة من السكان اللبنانيين ويشغلون 40 في المئة من الأراضي اللبنانية، وهم المجموعة الأكثر وحدة وتوحدا فيه، وأصبحت قوتهم العسكرية الاقوى في هذه المنطقة من العالم العربي، لهذا كله يجب أن يكون لهم التمثيل الاكبر والاوسع في الحكومة وفي البرلمان وفي كافة المؤسسات اللبنانية".

بناء على ما تقدّم يطرح اللبنانيون أكثر من علامة استفهام حول دعوات البعض الى قيام "الجمهورية الثالثة" في ظل سعي "حزب الله" الى تغيير الواقع اللبناني تحت ضغط سلاحه. ولذلك فإن الأسئلة التي توجه الى "التيار الوطني الحر" تبدأ من السؤال البديهي:

هل يقدر "التيار الوطني الحر" على مواجهة "حزب الله" في حال رغب الأخير بتعزيز النفوذ الشيعي ضمن الدستور اللبناني عوض تعزيز صلاحيات رئيس الجمهورية؟ وماذا سيفعل "التيار الوطني الحر" في حال لجأ "حزب الله" الى استعمال سلاحه مرة جديدة؟ وهل يظن النائب ميشال عون إن طموحات "حزب الله" وأهدافه تنحصر داخل الحدود اللبنانية أن يقرّ ويعترف بأن مشاريع "حزب الله" إقليمية وربما دولية تنفيذا للمصالح الإيرانية؟ وما رأي أتباع عون بالإعلان الإيراني الصريح والواضح عن "انتصار مشروع إيران في لبنان" وعن ضرورة تعديل الطائف "ليصبح للشيعة حصة أكبر داخل المؤسسات في لبنان"؟ وماذا عن مقولة إن "الشيعة في لبنان باتوا يملكون القوة العسكرية الأقوى في هذه المنطقة من العالم العربي"؟

إذا لم يكن النائب ميشال عون شريكا في مؤامرة كبرى للوصول الى المثالثة بناء على وعد أعطي له أو وعد نفسه به بالوصول الى كرسي الرئاسة الأولى، يكون عندها أشبه بالهرّ الذي يلحس المبرد وهو يستمتع بطعم دمه الذي يسيل من دون أن يدري أنه دمه هو.

Heres the article translated:

"Third Republic" or "Republic of Iran established in Lebanon?"!

A few days ago, and specifically in this May 21, reported the Iranian news agency "IRNA" verbatim as follows: "The victory of the draft of Iran in Lebanon would give the go-ahead for the victory in every place!"

In turn, invited the newspaper "Kayhan" is close to Supreme Leader of Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, a few weeks ago "to change the balance of power in Lebanon in the interests of the Shia community," arguing that in light of the new strategic system that has emerged in the Middle East must be the Shiites in Lebanon, more share in the government and official institutions. Therefore, institutions must be changed from the amendment of the Taif Agreement. "The paper adds:" The Shiites now represent 40 percent of the Lebanese population and occupy 40 percent of Lebanese territory, they are the most united and unity, and became the strongest military power in the region from the Arab world , for all this must have a larger and broader representation in government, the Parliament and all the Lebanese institutions. "

Based on the foregoing raises the Lebanese more than a question mark on some calls for a "Third Republic" in the pursuit of "Hezbollah" to change the fact, under the pressure of the Lebanese guerillas. Therefore, the questions went to the "Free National Movement," beginning on the obvious question:

Is estimated, "the Free National Movement" on the face of "Hezbollah" in the case of the latter wanted the promotion of Shiite influence in the Lebanese Constitution, instead of enhancing the powers of the President of the Republic? What do "Free Patriotic Movement" in the event for the "Party of God" to use his weapon again? Do think that MP Michel Aoun's "Party of God" and its objectives are limited within the Lebanese border that recognizes and acknowledges that the draft "Hezbollah," a regional and perhaps international implementation of the interests of Iran? What is the opinion of the followers of the Iranian type of advertising is clear and explicit about "the triumph of the draft of Iran in Lebanon" and the need to amend the Taif "to become a larger share of the Shiites in the institutions in Lebanon?" What about the argument that "the Shiites in Lebanon have become the most powerful military force in the region from the Arab world?"

If the MP Michel Aoun, a major partner in a conspiracy to get to the ideal on a promise to give or promise the same access to the Chair first, then be like Baher Elhs coolant, which is enjoying the taste of blood coming from without, who knows that it is his blood.

jader3283

May 25th, 2009, 05:33 PM

German and Russian government denounces Der Spiegel

The German Embassy: The government has no information about Der Spiegel's report on Hizbullah’s involvement in Hariri’s murder. The international tribunal is independent.

Lavrov: Polls Strictly Lebanese, Results Should be Accepted by All

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Monday that it is up to Lebanese to decide whom they want to choose during the June 7 parliamentary elections stressing that all those who care for Lebanon's independence should accept the result of the polls.
"The Lebanese people should choose whoever they want without resorting to a foreign side," Lavrov said after meeting Speaker Nabih Berri in Ain el-Tineh.

"It is important to accept the results of the elections not only by the Lebanese society but also by all those who want to see Lebanon independent and free," he said during his one-day visit to Lebanon.

Lavrov added that Moscow would deal with "the side that the Lebanese people will choose."

He said he was convinced that "the Lebanese leadership will make everything possible so that the Lebanese elections are held freely, transparently and democratically."

Asked about a report by German weekly Der Spiegel which said that Hizbullah was involved in ex-Premier Rafik Hariri's assassination, Lavrov said: "We consider this an attempt to politicize things."

Lavrov met Monday morning President Michel Suleiman at Baabda palace. He later held talks with Premier Fouad Saniora at the Grand Serail.

"We will support the Lebanese people no matter what the election results were. The elections are for the Lebanese people. Let them choose what they want," Lavrov said after meeting Saniora.

The Russian FM later visited with MP Saad Hariri the former premier's graveyard in downtown Beirut.

An official statement from the Russian embassy had said Lavrov, who arrived in Beirut overnight, will express support for Lebanon's stability and the efforts of the Lebanese authorities to hold free, fair and transparent parliamentary elections.

The daily As Safir said on its front-page headline on Monday that Lavrov's visit is aimed at examining the repercussions of "Hurricane Biden," a reference to U.S. Vice President Joseph Biden who was in Beirut last week.

Diplomatic sources, meanwhile, told the Kuwaiti news agency, KUNA, that Russia "respects" the various Lebanese parties, and would deal with any Lebanese team that wins the parliamentary elections "away from external interference."

Biden's visit, which also was a show of support for Suleiman, was seen by the opposition as meddling in Lebanese internal affairs.

"It appears that this visit is part of a U.S. bid to supervise the electoral campaign of a Lebanese party which feels threatened politically ... in light of the expected outcome of the legislative vote," Hizbullah MP Hasan Fadlallah had said of Biden's brief trip.

Lavrov also extended an invitation to Lebanon to participate in Russia's planned international conference on the Middle East.

Russia announced in January its intention to stage a Middle East conference in the first half of this year, but the idea has not been received with enthusiasm in either Israel or its key ally, the United States.

Lavrov was in Damascus on Sunday where he briefed Syrian President Bashar al-Assad on Moscow's wish to "organize a conference on the Middle East in order to discuss the peace process."

Syria's news agency, SANA, said Assad responded that "the conference must be well-prepared" and "set out objectives as well as the positions of those parties concerned" in the Israeli-Arab conflict.

Beirut, 25 May 09, 08:18

alisaleh

May 25th, 2009, 06:38 PM

"Hezbollah Did It!"
Der Spiegel Tries Again
By FRANKLIN LAMB

Beirut

The headline was dramatic. The strongly pro-Israel German weekly Der Spiegel offered bold “new information” it claimed came from secret sources and documents, stemming “inside investigative sources who wefromre working on the Rafic Hariri assassination. Der Spiegel’s breakthrough ‘exclusive’ with ‘new evidence pointing to those who were guilty.

The headline screamed

BYE-BYE, HARIRI!
UN Report Links Syrian Officials to Murder of Former Lebanese Leader

By Erich Follath et al.

Publication date? October 24, 2005, nearly four years ago.
Yes, that particular Spiegel excloo came back in 2005. Syria was accused in the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafic Hariri of being the ‘real’ assassins. An international anti-Syria campaign was promptly launched by the Bush Administration and Israel to demonize its government.

Fast forward to the tense run-up right now, bore the June elections. This weekend, a new exclusive, secret, investigative report showing the real, real assassins was published by the same weekly, Der Spiegel. Same author. Same editor. New target.

This time Der Spiegel’s Erich Follath claims that the international committee investigating the assassination of former Prime Minister martyr Rafik Hariri has reached “surprising new secret conclusions”, this time pointing to Hezbollah.

The new Der Spiegel head line (May 24, 2009)

BREAKTHROUGH IN TRIBUNAL INVESTIGATION
New Evidence Points to Hezbollah in Hariri Murder

By Erich Follath

The German weekly claims the target is now Hezbollah after the Tribunal pressured the Lebanese government to release four Lebanese Generals last month for lack of evidenceamid a swelling outcry in the international legal and human rights community. After the generals’ release, more questions are being raised such as why the four Generals were never charged if there was inadequate evidence, or release years ago or given a bail bond, house arrest, or allowed to face their accusers or even see the supposed evidence against them. The credibility of the Tribunal diminished with each day the four remained jailed.

In many respects the 2009 Der Spiegel article is similar to the 2005 piece: "There are signs that the investigation has yielded new and explosive results”, "Spiegel has learned from sources close to the tribunal and verified by examining internal documents that the Hariri case is about to take a sensational turn”, "Intensive investigations in Lebanon are all pointing to a new conclusion, this time that it was not the special forces of Syria, but instead special forces of Hezbollah that planned and carried out Hariri's Feb. 2005 murder.”

As in 2005, Der Spiegel claims the investigators “apparently want to hold back the information that they have been aware of for about a month”. Der Spiegel asserts that "According to the Lebanese security forces, all of the telephone numbers involved apparently belong to the 'operational arm' of Hezbollah.” Without an apology for the hatchet job on Syrian President Bashar Assad four years ago, Der Speigel’s the new article adds demurely that President Assad is no longer a suspect. “Hardly anything suggests anymore that he was personally aware of the murder plot or even ordered the killing”, Follath writes.

Ricocheting around Lebanon’s capitol and on the Internet are comments questioning the timing of the Spiegel report as aimed to cause maximum damage to the Hezbollah-led opposition. Who was the supposed source of the ‘leaks’ and why now, since the UN investigative office has taken great pains not to leak or politicize its work. In contrast to former investigator Detlev Mehlis, Hasan Nassrallah has never been known to order the killing of rival politicians. The 2005-2006 accusations against Syria were shown to be fallacious and based on a false witness. Der Spiegel has a rumored long history with Israeli intelligence, the “key” eight phones were never in the hands of Hezbollah but rather a Muslim Sunni organization in Trablus as Detlev Mehlis claimed to have documented.

[B]One claim that I find very odd is the suggestion that a senior Hezbollah member would call his girl friend on a secure line was ‘on duty”. Der Spiegel’s girl friend telephone call story is a bit awkward and very un-Hezbollah. I know of two cases where female students at AUB became quite angry when their Hezbollah boyfriends up and disappeared from campus and did not even call them for a whole month. When they returned “from duty” to resume classes both tried to explain that they could not make contact while ‘working’.

Puzzling also is the German weekly’s claim that it learned “from sources close to the tribunal” and “verified by examining internal documents, that the Hariri case is about to take a sensational turn.” Der Spiegel does not make it clear if it was its source or Der Spiegel’s editors who examined these documents. If the latter, did the source to take these documents outside the very tight security building in The Hague? Surely, the investigation should be able to track this so-called source.

No evidence is offered by Der Spiegel for any of its “revelations” such as Hezbollah members who supposedly trained in Iran, bought phones, “two men who report only to their superior” (who else would they report to?) etc. How does Der Spiegel know all these secret things and why not offer some proof? How does Der Spiegel know, for example who reports to whom in Hezbollah? Does some of this highly secret information come to Der Spiegel via recently apprehended Israeli spy cells—passed on from the three Israeli intelligence agencies known to be here in Lebanon or sources connected with them?

Too volatile for Lebanon’s Campaign?

So far none of Lebanon’s political parties is taking Der Spiegel’s story as credible. MP Walid Jumblatt, Druze leader of the Progressive Socialist Party currently allied with the pro-US March 14th majority, commenting on the Der Spiegel article, warned in a Sunday speech dedicated to announce his Chouf candidates, that the article is "the game of nations that could, God forbid, derail justice and use it for things that we don't believe in."

The Saad Hariri-led Future Movement refused to comment on the article.

Lebanese Foreign Minister Fawsi Salloukh labeled it as “totally false and all lies”, Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Moallem challenged Der Spiegel and the author of the report to show evidence. “This article is politicized and reminds us of (former international investigator) Detlev Mehlis’s practices,” Moallem added. Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri said the report "was nothing but a new attempt to sow sedition among the Lebanese….This is a media fabrication that only lacked the stamp: 'Made in Israel'," Berri said.

Hezbollah Media Relations Office issued a statement on Sunday in which it dismissed allegations published by Der Spiegel and broadcast by Al-Arabiyya Channel saying that it is nothing less than “police fabrications”. The statement said, “It’s not the first time that a magazine or newspaper aimed at publishing such fabrications and previously Kuwaiti paper Al-Siyasa has repeatedly published such reports along with other dailies.” The statement continued “It is nothing more than police fabrications cooked in the same black room that has been keen on fabricating such stories for over four years regarding the Syrians and the four Lebanese officers and others.” The statement added that “publishing this report by Der Spiegel and promoting for it by Al-Arabiyya is suspicious in its timing and its political and psychological exploitation especially for two reasons: First it is a pure fabrication aimed at influencing the election campaign in Lebanon on one side, and to deflect attention from the news about the dismantling of spy networks working for Israel on other…. The report comes just two weeks ahead of a June 7 parliamentary election in Lebanon.”

The German Embassy in Beirut claims not to have heard about the article and would have no comment.

Radiya Ashouri, Spokeswoman for the Special Tribunal for Lebanon (STL) says for the record: “We don’t know where the Der Spiegel magazine did get their information from and we don’t know where they brought this story from. No one in the prosecutor’s office has spoken to the German magazine about anything. We have a clear policy of not leaking any information about the tribunal through media outlets, and we have been stressing this since the beginning. When Der Spiegel spoke about Bellemar’s spokesperson, they meant me. They emailed me and asked a few questions. My answer was that the tribunal does not deal with investigation files through the media and adopts the policy of direct announcement by the part of Mr. Bellemar.If we had something to say, we would have said it directly, not through media outlets.”

Beiruti

May 25th, 2009, 07:09 PM

^^ Interesting how the STL spokesperson still did not deny the information was correct, just denied that it was leaked. Okay, so they dont know where the info came from, but the question remains: is there any truth to the info?
They have no way of knowing if info was leaked! I doubt Der Speigel would so seriously damage their image and destroy their own credibility like this.

alisaleh

May 25th, 2009, 07:51 PM

Lebanese leaders quiet on Spiegel's bombshell report

Beirut, Lebanon - A bombshell revelation tying Lebanon's militant Hezbollah to the assassination of a former Lebanese prime minister has generated a rare consensus among rival political camps less than two weeks before crucial parliamentary elections.

The German news magazine Der Spiegel reported this weekend that the Netherlands-based international tribunal established to trace and judge the killers of Rafik Hariri has uncovered evidence that Hezbollah was responsible for the February 2005 truck bomb assassination.

Hezbollah described the allegations as "evil fabrications" aimed at "influencing the election campaign" and called on the international tribunal to refute the allegations.

A spokeswoman for the tribunal refused to discuss Der Spiegel's claims, saying, "We don't know where they are getting the story from. The office of the prosecutor doesn't comment on any issues related to operational aspects of the investigation."

The revelations, coming just two weeks before Lebanon holds closely contested parliamentary elections, have the potential to ignite simmering Sunni-Shiite tensions here. On Sunday night, a Shiite supporter of the Hezbollah-led opposition was killed during a clash with partisans of the Western-backed March 14 coalition.

Calculated leak against Hezbollah?
The opposition is expected to win marginally more seats than its March 14 competitor, allowing it to form the backbone of the next government.

The timing of Der Spiegel's report has sparked speculation that it was a calculated leak to put Hezbollah on the defensive just as the Shiite group was hoping that an electoral victory would earn it some respite from international and domestic pressure to dismantle its military wing.

It will also sustain anti-Hezbollah sentiment within the March 14 alliance, especially among Lebanese Sunnis who are still smarting from their drubbing at the hands of Hezbollah's fighters during street clashes in Beirut a year ago.

"My main worry is that March 14 will use the story against Hezbollah and that would be tantamount to a declaration of war and will be a disaster for Lebanon," says Amal Saad-Ghorayeb, a Lebanese expert on Hezbollah.

However, March 14 leaders seem determined to ignore the story.

Walid Jumblatt, chieftain of the Druze faction of the coalition, compared Der Spiegel's revelations to the April 1975 shooting of bus passengers in the Beirut suburb of Ain Rummaneh that triggered a 16-year civil war here.

"Beware of rumors and press leaks, they could damage the work of justice and provoke discord and sedition," said Mr. Jumblatt, formerly an arch-critic of Hezbollah who lately has softened his tone.

Hani Hammoud, a spokesman for Saad Hariri, Rafik Hariri's son and political heir, also played down the story.

"We do not comment on any information regarding the tribunal unless it is officially stated by the tribunal," he said.

Spiegel details gripping, but analysis questionable

Der Spiegel claimed that Lebanese investigators had traced cellphone communications during the period just before Hariri's death to pinpoint an initial group of eight suspects. A "second circle of hell" of some 20 cell phones was subsequently identified that were used in close proximity to the first eight phones. The cell-phone numbers of the second group were all traced to Hezbollah militants, with the alleged mastermind named as Hajj Salim, the alleged head of Hezbollah's "special operations unit."

Der Spiegel's revelations – attributed to an unnamed source or sources "close to the tribunal" and internal documents – make for sensational reading, but the plot falters when it comes to Hezbollah's motive in wanting Hariri dead. The magazine concludes that "Hariri's growing popularity" was a "thorn in the side" of Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Shiite Hezbollah, which led to the decision to kill the Sunni billionaire.

Dr. Saad-Ghorayeb dismisses the claimed motive as "laughable," noting that Nasrallah's influence in Lebanon and the Middle East was greater than that of Hariri.

If Der Spiegel's allegations have a basis in fact, analysts suggest a more plausible scenario is one in which elements within Hezbollah assisted in the assassination at the behest of a third party rather than orchestrating the murder itself.

Late-night chats between Hariri, Nasrallah
In the months before his death, Hariri's relationship with the Syrian regime, which then dominated Lebanon, steadily worsened. During the same period, however, Hariri struck up a personal friendship with Nasrallah, helping ease tensions over their long-standing differences between their political visions for Lebanon.

The two men met about once a week late at night for secret sessions in which they discussed Lebanese and regional affairs while snacking on fruit and sipping cups of Turkish coffee. They had much in common. Both men originated from south Lebanon and shared a liking for jokes and good humor. Their influence extended well beyond the parochial confines of Lebanon, unlike most Lebanese politicians.

In January 2005, just one month before he was killed, Hariri persuaded Jacques Chirac, the then-president of France and a close friend, not to support the inclusion of Hezbollah on the European Union's list of terrorist organizations.

Nasrallah reciprocated the gesture by telling Hariri at their last meeting on Feb. 11 that he would send a delegate to Damascus to try and attempt a reconciliation between Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and the former premier. The delegate apparently was in Damascus on Feb. 14, the same day that Hariri died.

Conducting assassination alone nearly impossible
Granted, the fact that Hariri and Nasrallah shared cups of coffee and a joke each week does not suggest that Hezbollah remains blameless in Hariri's death. Yet most Hezbollah observers believe Nasrallah recognized that Hariri preferred compromise over confrontation and therefore was a potential asset rather than a threat. In Lebanon, only Hariri had sufficient influence to persuade the international community not to pursue Hezbollah's disarmament too diligently but leave it up to the Lebanese to resolve.

More pertinent, even if Hezbollah did have a compelling motive for wanting Hariri dead, analysts believe it would be almost impossible for the Shiite organization to embark upon an such a bold assassination unilaterally.

The impact of such an event was bound to have serious consequences for its benefactors in Iran and Syria – as demonstrated by the domestic and international outcry following Hariri's murder, which forced Syria to withdraw its troops from Lebanon two months later.

Ramazzotti

May 25th, 2009, 07:59 PM

...

alisaleh

May 25th, 2009, 08:04 PM

^^ Did so :)

Ramazzotti

May 25th, 2009, 08:21 PM

hehe that's why i erased my msg :D

Rabih

May 25th, 2009, 08:50 PM

Late-night chats between Hariri, Nasrallah

Imagine them chatting online :lol:

Hariri: Hey
Nasrallah: Sho baddak?
Hariri: what u doin?
Nasrallah: am busy. brb
Hariri: (Nudge)
Nasrallah: shoooooooooooooo?!
Hariri: meshwe hehe

:)

alisaleh

May 25th, 2009, 09:04 PM

^^

:hilarious

You officially made my day.....al nudge al :rofl:

lebnani

May 25th, 2009, 09:19 PM

Imagine them chatting online :lol:

Hariri: Hey
Nasrallah: Sho baddak?
Hariri: what u doin?
Nasrallah: am busy. brb
Hariri: (Nudge)
Nasrallah: shoooooooooooooo?!
Hariri: meshwe hehe

:)

lmfao!!!! that is the BEST convo ever!!!

Beiruti

May 26th, 2009, 03:48 PM

LOG offices in Tayouneh and Shiyyah set on fire

May 26, 2009

The Lebanese Option Gathering released a statement on Tuesday saying that unidentified persons had set the gathering’s headquarters in Tayouneh and their office in Shiyyah on fire.

The statement read that those individuals had previously notified the residents in the Tayouneh building by using the intercom. The residents were told they should evacuate immediately, because the building will be set on fire.

-NOW Staff

Beiruti

May 26th, 2009, 03:51 PM

^^ How much longer will this be tolerated???

melkart

May 26th, 2009, 04:15 PM

^^ How much longer will this be tolerated???

Tolerated? The opposition is prolly cheering!

Rabih

May 26th, 2009, 04:57 PM

LOG offices in Tayouneh and Shiyyah set on fire

The statement read that those individuals had previously notified the residents in the Tayouneh building by using the intercom. The residents were told they should evacuate immediately, because the building will be set on fire.

Arsonists: "evacuate immediately, because the building will be set on fire."

Residents: "The roof the roof the roof is on fire .. We don't need no water let the motherfucker burn .. Burn motherfucker burn .. C'mon party people
Ohh Ohh"

Arsonists: "HA!!"
Arsonists: "freaks"

:)

Beiruti

May 26th, 2009, 05:11 PM

^^ Rabih, I dont think it's appropriate to joke about this. This is a very serious attack against our freedom and democracy, not to mention people could have been hurt.

Rabih

May 26th, 2009, 05:27 PM

^^ I honestly don't know any other way to reply to such news anymore..

Rabih

May 27th, 2009, 11:54 AM

9 years after pullout, SLA veterans still dream of Lebanon
Hagai Einav, Israel News
Published: 05.27.09

Former South Lebanon Army soldiers gather on anniversary of Israel's withdrawal from area, salute 1,250 comrades who gave their lives whilst fighting alongside IDF. 'We have a bond with Israel but we dream of going home,' one of them says

Nine years after Israel withdrew from South Lebanon, some 250 members of the South Lebanon Army (SLA), gathered Tuesday to hold a memorial service for 1,250 of their comrades, who lost their lives during the years of fighting alongside the Israel Defense Forces.

After the IDF pulled out of the area, many SLA members and their families moved to Israel, mostly for security reasons.

"Out of 7,000 people who moved from Lebanon to Israel, only 2,600 remain," Claude Ibrahim, a former advisor to SLA Commander Antoine Lahad, told Ynet. "The majority live in Nahariya, Ma'alot, Carmiel, Tiberias, Kiryat Shmona, Safed and Haifa.

"We have come here today to mark the deep bond between members of the SLA and the State of Israel, as well as to make the longing to the homeland we left," he added.

http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/02022009/1994554/IMG_2019_wa.jpg
Veterans' children at the ceremony (Photo: Julie Abu-Arj)

The service began with 50 of the SLA members' children singing both the Lebanese anthem and the Israeli one - "Hatikva".

Hoping to return to Lebanon

Members of the SLA living in Israel told Ynet that they too were greatly affected by the global financial crisis, adding that their respective municipalities were doing what they could to assist them.

"We are even worse off than most. Our children have found their place in the school system, but its hard for the older folks to find jobs," Joseph, formerly of the SLA, said.

"In 2002, the government decided to split the care of SLA veterans between the Defense Ministry and the Immigrant Absorption Ministry, which resulted in some unfair gaps," he said.

Nine years after the pullout, most of them still hope to be able to return to Lebanon one day: "We all wish for peace, and that one day we can go back," one of the SLA veterans' wives told Ynet.

"Our (husbands') decision to fight shoulder to shoulder with the IDF stemmed from the belief that the Israelis and the Lebanese can coexist peacefully," she said. "We still believe that."

melkart

May 27th, 2009, 03:45 PM

^^ how depressing!!! hopefully one day they can return home!!

Beiruti

May 27th, 2009, 05:25 PM

^^ That's sad, no one should be prevented from visiting their homeland.

Lebanese Cedar

May 27th, 2009, 07:18 PM

I support their right to return to Lebanon, but they have to renounce their ties with Israel.

melkart

May 27th, 2009, 07:35 PM

I support their right to return to Lebanon, but they have to renounce their ties with Israel.

no they don't only if hisb renounces there ties to Iran!

Beiruti

May 27th, 2009, 07:39 PM

Author of Der Spiegel Tale 'Convinced' about Report, Says Documents 'Original'

Author of the Der Spiegel report implicating Hizbullah in the assassination of ex-Premier Rafik Hariri said he is "convinced" about the article and stressed that the documents cited were "original."

"The documents that I reviewed during preparation of my report were original, not copies," Erich Follath, Der Spiegel's diplomatic correspondent, said in a telephone interview with pan-Arab daily Asharq al-Awsat.

"I verified every word before publishing the report," he added.

Follath said he visited Syria a few months ago and met President Bashar al-Assad.

"That had nothing to do with the article published over the weekend," he stressed.

Follath said he is a "free" journalist who takes into account the conscience of his profession.

He denied working for intelligence services, adding that he had "personally" criticized Israel a number of times for its violations of the rights of the Palestinian people in the occupied territories.

Follath said he was "happy" to be attacked by Hizbullah chief Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah.

He pointed that he had met senior Hizbullah officials and was "not surprised by Nasrallah's attack, but was expecting it."

He said Nasrallah's assault had "improved his status," adding that he is convinced about his tale "today more than ever before."

Meanwhile, As Safir newspaper said Der Spiegel's report was a "replica" story by opposition Syrian journalist Nizar Nayouf published by "al Hakika" (the Truth) website five months ago.

It said Der Spiegel's report "selected" parts from Nayouf's article regarding Hizbullah's special forces in addition to names of senior Hizbullah officials like Imad Mughniyeh, Abdel Majid Ghamloush and al-Haj Salim as well as using the same terms regarding slain Lebanese army officer Wissam Eid.

Al-Akhbar newspaper, for its part, said Wednesday that Nick Kaldas, head of the U.N. investigation team probing Hariri's assassination, was "examining" the contents of the dossier containing names and addresses as well as database and tables showing link among communication networks.

Beirut, 27 May 09, 08:19

Beiruti

May 27th, 2009, 07:45 PM

Between the lines of the Der Spiegel report

Nadim Koteich, Special to NOW, May 27, 2009

When I finished the article in Der Spiegel, in which the author, Erich Follath, claims to have obtained information from “sources close to the [Special] Tribunal” that Hezbollah was behind the murder of Lebanon’s former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, one sentence kept echoing in my head.

Follath, without a hint of doubt, concludes that “Although the Syrian government is not being declared free of the suspicion of involvement, at least President Assad is no longer in the line of fire. Hardly anything suggests anymore that he was personally aware of the murder plot or even ordered the killing.”

And yet he offers not a scrap of evidence to support this conclusion. He didn’t even seek to quash the received wisdom that Hezbollah could never have done it alone, given that they would have had to pull it off under the very nose of the Syrian intelligence apparatus, which was in charge of Lebanese security at the time of the killing.

There has always been speculation of Hezbollah’s involvement in eliminating Hariri. The slain prime minister was indeed, as Follath claims, the antithesis of Hezbollah, and the differences between Hariri and the party’s secretary general, Hassan Nasrallah, sharpened after the Israeli withdrawal from South Lebanon in May 2000.

While Hariri stood for the state, moderation, modernization, and political and economic integration in the world, Nasrallah was the embodiment of militant jihad, fundamentalism, ideological fragmentation and incitement. Added to this stand-off were the smoldering Sunni-Shia rift and Iranian-Saudi tensions.

All of these are, theoretically, valid reasons. However, none of them explains the vigor with which Follath dismisses Assad’s role, even though he keeps an open mind that others within the regime – “whoever [sic] in charge” – are still under “suspicion of involvement.”

Ring a bell? Ten days before the Hariri assassination, US Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, in a testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee, questioned Assad’s control in Syria.

“There’s some argument as to whether President Assad is fully in control in Syria or not,” he said, talking about Damascus’ attitude toward Iraq. “But we do know this is a police state, and somebody’s in control, and we have a list of, sort of, who the top 12 leaders are. They all have some accountability here.”

The names of at least two of these 12 leaders – Maher Al-Assad and Asef Shawkat, brother and brother-in-law of Bashar al-Assad, respectively – cropped up in the investigation of Detlev Mehlis, the first commissioner of the UN International Independent Investigation Commission into the Hariri case. Shawkat, who was appointed Syria’s chief of Military Intelligence shortly after the killing, was also named in an article in another German magazine, Stern, which stated that he “was questioned as a suspect and not as a witness.”

Nevertheless, Syria has an interest in pinning the blame on Hezbollah. The recent release of the four Lebanese generals, the only suspects in custody by the Special Tribunal, brought to light different reactions from Syria and Hezbollah. Damascus didn’t take a position on the release, while Hezbollah feted them as heroes.

There are hints that there are other suspects that might be considered by the international investigation. Prosecutor Daniel Bellemare stressed the fact that the investigators are pursuing “several leads.” In comments made prior to his reasoned submission to the pre-trial judge, Daniel Fransen, in which he stated no objection to freeing the four generals, Bellemare robustly asserted that he could solve the Hariri case. “If I thought the case could not be solved, I would be the first to say so,” he said.

In early May, soon after the generals’ release, Assad told France 3 television that Syria was keen to hear the decision of the Special Tribunal investigation into Hariri’s murder. “Knowing who committed this crime will be very helpful to Syria…because when we [know], we’ll be very happy and very relieved.”

This could be easily mistaken as a sign of renewed confidence in the so-called rapprochement with Washington. However, it is a reading premised on illusion, and the rapprochement is not working.

Last weekend, in a speech opening the foreign ministers’ meeting of the 57-member Organization of the Islamic Conference in Damascus, Assad offered a glimpse at the difficulties facing the US-Syrian dialogue. “We reject readymade solutions designed abroad, only to be asked to implement them,” he said. “This approach doesn’t fit us. It doesn’t adhere to our people’s taste and is doomed to fail.”

Following the second trip to Syria by Jeffrey Feltman, the acting assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern Affairs, and National Security Council Senior Director Daniel Shapiro in March, a visit that focused almost entirely on Iraq, US President Barack Obama renewed, for one year, the economic sanctions on Damascus imposed in 2004 by his predecessor, George Bush. The White House cited continuing concern about Syria’s support for militants as the reason why Damascus was publicly asked to take “immediate and decisive action” to do more to suppress the flow of foreign fighters to Iraq through Syrian borders.

Ibrahim Hamidi, the Al-Hayat correspondent in Damascus and someone whose writing reflects the regime’s standpoint, wrote a very telling piece titled “Reasons for Syria’s Positive Caution on Obama’s Approach toward Middle Eastern Affairs” last Saturday. The article cites four conditions for a less cautious relationship between the two countries, which, practically, brings things back between the two nations to square one.

First, Syria expects Obama to lift the economic sanctions by next year. Second, it expects to be praised for its efforts in Iraq in addition to linking counter-terrorism cooperation with Washington to a “political umbrella, diplomatic dialogue on the basis of common interest, and economic veins.” Third, Damascus demands a visit by US Special Envoy to the Middle East George Mitchell, and finally, it wants Washington to stop looking at Syria through the Lebanese prism and, hence, to appoint an American ambassador regardless of any Lebanese considerations.

In effect, Damascus is once again feeling the heat after a short-lived honeymoon with Washington and as such might return to what it knows best, namely destabilizing Lebanon by maximizing tensions in an already tense country. Assad’s apparently relaxed position on the Special Tribunal has amplified Hezbollah’s anxiety – an anxiety that was simmering under the surface of the welcome it afforded the four generals – and has paved the way for what Syria hopes will be a potentially explosive escalation in Lebanon, even if Damascus lacks the tools needed for a fully-fledged collapse, a situation it might wish for.

[B]Bottom line, Syria isn’t off the hook just yet.

-----------------------

AmeriLEB

May 27th, 2009, 07:45 PM

Hizbollah seeks IMF support in event of poll win

Wednesday, May 27, 2009

Lebanon's Hizbollah has held talks with the International Monetary Fund and the European Union to try to secure financial support for Lebanon if the alliance it leads were to win next month's parliamentary elections.Discussions between the Shia militant group and donors take place amid intensifying concern in Beirut that a politically fragile, indebted economy could be under strain if the pro-western parliamentary majority were to lose the June 7 elections.Beirut's government has benefited from the international support of Gulf states and the west as it has sought to curb Hizbollah. Saudi Arabia in particular has been a backer.A victory by Hizbollah and its allies would be seen as a boost for Syria and Iran, the group's backers. It could lead the US and other supporters of the current parliamentary majority to reconsider economic support for Lebanon. Washington considers Hizbollah a terrorist organisation but the group is seen by much of the Arab world as a resistance movement against Israel.The pro-western coalition that dominates the government says it is confident it can maintain its parliamentary majority. But the race is tight, and a group of independents could decide which side is to form the next government.Ali Fayad, a Hizbollah candidate who also heads the party's think-tank, warned against punishing Lebanon economically if elections favoured the opposition.He told the Financial Times his party was nonetheless considering the economic risks and discussing such prospects with the EU and the IMF.The EU says it makes no distinction between Hizbollah and other parties in Lebanon, and will work with any democratically elected government.

By Roula Khalaf and Anna Fifield in Beirut

© Copyright The Financial Times Ltd 2009. Privacy policy.

Lebanese Cedar

May 27th, 2009, 08:00 PM

no they don't only if hisb renounces there ties to Iran!

Ummm, no. Ties with Iran are allowed, ties with Israel are not.

Israel has been a sworn enemy of Lebanon and collaboration with Israel is punishable by death. It's been this way for the past 60 years. Iran is not a sworn enemy and never has been.

Have you not been following the news lately about all the Lebanese and Palestinians spying for Israel getting caught?

I am all for Hezbollah ending its "special" Iranian relationship with provides Iran with a medium to meddle in Lebanese affairs, but you are comparing apples and oranges here.

Despite the tensions and difficulties between Iran and many in Lebanon (primarily the March 14 alliance), Iran is not a sworn enemy of Lebanon and March 14 advocates no such policy. We have diplomatic relations with Iran and March 14 advocates relations with Iran through normal diplomatic channels just like with all other countries of the world.

On the other hand, Lebanon has no diplomatic relations with Israel and considers it a sworn enemy. Big difference.

In all countries in the world, collaborating with an enemy is treasonous.

These SLA members get a break because like all war criminals from the civil war were pardoned (Geagea, Jumblatt, Berri, the list goes on), SLA members should be pardoned as well. Provided they become law abiding citizens which means cutting ties with Israel.

melkart

May 27th, 2009, 08:12 PM

Ummm, no. Ties with Iran are allowed, ties with Israel are not.

Israel has been a sworn enemy of Lebanon and collaboration with Israel is punishable by death. It's been this way for the past 60 years. Iran is not a sworn enemy and never has been.

Have you not been following the news lately about all the Lebanese and Palestinians spying for Israel getting caught?

I am all for Hezbollah ending its "special" Iranian relationship with provides Iran with a medium to meddle in Lebanese affairs, but you are comparing apples and oranges here.

Despite the tensions and difficulties between Iran and many in Lebanon (primarily the March 14 alliance), Iran is not a sworn enemy of Lebanon and March 14 advocates no such policy. We have diplomatic relations with Iran and March 14 advocates relations with Iran through normal diplomatic channels just like with all other countries of the world.

On the other hand, Lebanon has no diplomatic relations with Israel and considers it a sworn enemy. Big difference.

In all countries in the world, collaborating with an enemy is treasonous.

These SLA members get a break because like all war criminals from the civil war were pardoned (Geagea, Jumblatt, Berri, the list goes on), SLA members should be pardoned as well. Provided they become law abiding citizens which means cutting ties with Israel.

if the spies are reporting info on hisballah, than god bless them and may they multiply and prosper. IRAN is my number one enemy! Regarding Israel being Lebanon's enemy? well it shouldn't! but no one dares to insult Iran, cause hisb will have a frikin caneption.

þopsï

May 27th, 2009, 08:32 PM

if the spies are reporting info on hisballah, than god bless them and may they multiply and prosper. IRAN is my number one enemy! Regarding Israel being Lebanon's enemy? well it shouldn't! but no one dares to insult Iran, cause hisb will have a frikin caneption.

no offence, but what you said is wrong on so many levels..

Lebanese Cedar

May 27th, 2009, 08:54 PM

if the spies are reporting info on hisballah, than god bless them and may they multiply and prosper. IRAN is my number one enemy!

I assume you consider yourself to be pro-March 14 which means you support the state and state institutions, yet you are praising and advocating those who are committing serious violations against the state?

Well then that shows where your ethics and principles stand...

Like so many Lebanese, you support the state and state institutions only when it suits you.

I strongly oppose March 8 and Hezbollah and I oppose all foreign interference in Lebanon. I would like nothing but to see Hezbollah weakened but only by internal and normal diplomatic means, not by resorting to unethical means such as turning to a sworn enemy.

By resorting to such tactics, you become no better than those you oppose.

You oppose Hezbollah for providing Iran and Syria with a medium to violate Lebanese sovereignty, yet you also advocate spying for Israel which is also a violation of Lebanese sovereignty? Where are your principles?

melkart

May 27th, 2009, 09:26 PM

I assume you consider yourself to be pro-March 14 which means you support the state and state institutions, yet you are praising and advocating those who are committing serious violations against the state?

Well then that shows where your ethics and principles stand...

Like so many Lebanese, you support the state and state institutions only when it suits you.

I strongly oppose March 8 and Hezbollah and I oppose all foreign interference in Lebanon. I would like nothing but to see Hezbollah weakened but only by internal and normal diplomatic means, not by resorting to unethical means such as turning to a sworn enemy.

By resorting to such tactics, you become no better than those you oppose.

You oppose Hezbollah for providing Iran and Syria with a medium to violate Lebanese sovereignty, yet you also advocate spying for Israel which is also a violation of Lebanese sovereignty? Where are your principles?

I am not saying we should go against the state, but Iran is a bigger threat to me than Israel. not to mention no one is arresting iranian and syrian spies. right now it is cool to bash israel. everyone is afraid to lash out at Iran, cause hisballah has a grip on the lebanese people. so knowing that israeli spies exist in the country is the last thing on my mind. my number one concern is to weaken hisballah's ideology in our territory. and arresting israeli spies doesn't help in achieving that. also I am not sure what tactics u are talking about I never said we should resort to violence in order to disarm hisballah or weaken there ideology.

melkart

May 27th, 2009, 09:29 PM

edit

Beiruti

May 27th, 2009, 09:38 PM

I agree that this isnt much of a threat to our national security. We should be worried about Syrian operatives plotting to assassinate our leaders and blow up busses filled with voters. People seem to easily forget...

Lebanese Cedar

May 27th, 2009, 11:12 PM

I am not saying we should go against the state, but Iran is a bigger threat to me than Israel. not to mention no one is arresting iranian and syrian spies. right now it is cool to bash israel. everyone is afraid to lash out at Iran, cause hisballah has a grip on the lebanese people. so knowing that israeli spies exist in the country is the last thing on my mind. my number one concern is to weaken hisballah's ideology in our territory. and arresting israeli spies doesn't help in achieving that. also I am not sure what tactics u are talking about I never said we should resort to violence in order to disarm hisballah or weaken there ideology.

What do you mean nobody is against arresting Iranian and Syrian spies? What do you mean people are afraid of bashing Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah? Have you ever even followed Lebanese politics and seen arguments of the opposing sides?

You make it sound like March 14 is somehow apologetic to Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah? Have we all been misled by their platform???

Arresting Israeli spies actually DOES help in disarming Hezbollah in that it boosts the credibility of state institutions and detracts from Hezbollah's argument that the "resistance is needed to defend Lebanon from Israel." But that's besides the point.

All spies, regardless who they are spying for, should be caught and arrested, period.

You defending Israeli spies is no different than the March 8 and Hezbollah crowd defending Iranian and Syrian spies by claiming that they are here to "protect Lebanon from external threats."

I agree that this isnt much of a threat to our national security. We should be worried about Syrian operatives plotting to assassinate our leaders and blow up busses filled with voters.

That's like saying because serial killers are more dangerous than child molesters, police should focus on catching serial killers and forget about catching child molesters.

People seem to easily forget...

Yes, people do easily seem to forget. In your case, they forget how in the summer of 2006, Israel killed more than 1,000 Lebanese and destroyed the country's infrastructure. Not only that, but many are naive enough to believe the Israeli propaganda that they were "only fighting Hezbollah and not the state."

They also forget about longstanding issues that have been plaguing this country for several decades, namely the 400,000 Palestinian refugees which Israel is responsible for. It's an issue that has been haunting this country for more than 60 years, almost all of Lebanon's post-independence history.

Unfortunately many people in Lebanon have become polarized, on BOTH sides of the political spectrum.

While I overwhelmingly support March 14 and consider March 8, Hezbollah and Syrian/Iranian interference as a threat to Lebanon, I at the same time don't side with those who have gone to the extreme and have become so extremely polarized to the point that they've become blinded and fail to see the complete picture.

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 03:42 AM

Yes, people do easily seem to forget. In your case, they forget how in the summer of 2006, Israel killed more than 1,000 Lebanese and destroyed the country's infrastructure. Not only that, but many are naive enough to believe the Israeli propaganda that they were "only fighting Hezbollah and not the state."

They also forget about longstanding issues that have been plaguing this country for several decades, namely the 400,000 Palestinian refugees which Israel is responsible for. It's an issue that has been haunting this country for more than 60 years, almost all of Lebanon's post-independence history.

Unfortunately many people in Lebanon have become polarized, on BOTH sides of the political spectrum.

While I overwhelmingly support March 14 and consider March 8, Hezbollah and Syrian/Iranian interference as a threat to Lebanon, I at the same time don't side with those who have gone to the extreme and have become so extremely polarized to the point that they've become blinded and fail to see the complete picture.

you got this all wrong!! A crime is a crime. I am all for arresting criminals, No one is asking for pardoning criminals. but what we are saying here is that the israeli spy network isn't what it is made out to be. yes i have been following the political debates and yes I am aware of the march 14th stance in criticizing Iran and Syria. I understand that there is some degree of freedom of expression, but that is happening only because the march 14th are persisting in defending the nation from Iranian and syrian domination. Don't forget they assasinated our politicians one by one, until they paralised the majority.

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 03:58 AM

edit

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 04:04 AM

Yes, people do easily seem to forget. In your case, they forget how in the summer of 2006, Israel killed more than 1,000 Lebanese and destroyed the country's infrastructure. Not only that, but many are naive enough to believe the Israeli propaganda that they were "only fighting Hezbollah and not the state."

They also forget about longstanding issues that have been plaguing this country for several decades, namely the 400,000 Palestinian refugees which Israel is responsible for. It's an issue that has been haunting this country for more than 60 years, almost all of Lebanon's post-independence history.

Unfortunately many people in Lebanon have become polarized, on BOTH sides of the political spectrum.

While I overwhelmingly support March 14 and consider March 8, Hezbollah and Syrian/Iranian interference as a threat to Lebanon, I at the same time don't side with those who have gone to the extreme and have become so extremely polarized to the point that they've become blinded and fail to see the complete picture.

Why would you think that srael is fighting the state, rather than Hisballah! The way I see it, Israel fears hisballah and feels directly threatened. They also hold the lebanese government accountable for allowing them to operate freely. That's why they bombed the infrastructure and the airport (as a way to punish the state). Now don't get me wrong I disagree with Israel's approach and I think they have made an unjust response and a miscalculated strategic blunder. There is no question that they were brutal and beligerant. but that doesn't change the fact that Hisballah is the root of all evil. They are responsible for causing the Lebanese state much of it's misery and instability. either way a spy is a spy, but honestly i careless if they arrested them or not. I am more worried about the likes of samir kantar walking around freely breeding more baby killers than worry about some israeli spies.

alisaleh

May 28th, 2009, 04:04 AM

I respect and salute Samir il Kuntar

I only wish him the best with his new wife, and I hope his kids come out JUST like him.

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 04:05 AM

I respect and salute Samir il Kuntar

I only wish him the best with his new wife, and I hope his kids come out JUST like him.

what about the israeli girl he murdered. what did her family do or that poor child?

alisaleh

May 28th, 2009, 04:07 AM

^^ :blahblah:

if he's a childkiller, then I must be a child killer Adorer....

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 04:09 AM

^^ :blahblah:

if he's a childkiller, then I must be a child killer Adorer....

let me get this for the record! you care less about that girl cause she is a jew? and even if samir killed that girl, you think it is justified?

alisaleh

May 28th, 2009, 04:15 AM

AmeriLEB

May 28th, 2009, 04:22 AM

IMF denies reports it negotiated with Hezbollah

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The International Monetary Fund denied media reports on Wednesday that it had discussed possible loans with Lebanon's Hezbollah before parliamentary elections next month.

The Financial Times and New York Times on Wednesday reported that Hezbollah had held talks with the IMF and the European Union to secure financial support for Lebanon if its alliance won the election.

"The IMF has not negotiated with Hezbollah members or sympathizers in Lebanon over a possible loan," the IMF said in a statement.

It said an IMF mission visiting Beirut in March for annual consultations on economic policies met with the country's main political parties as part of standard outreach activities that also include talks with nongovernmental groups.

During the talks, it met with Abed Al-Halim Fadlalah, then deputy director of an economic research center that has close ties with Hezbollah, to explain the IMF's visit and "gather support toward economic reforms," the IMF said.

The IMF conducts annual economic consultations with all of its 185 member countries.

"The Fund has a long history of meetings with political parties and/or parliamentarians," the IMF said. "Many Fund missions do this as part of their outreach activities."

"By no means were future Fund arrangements discussed," it added.

Lebanon votes on June 7 in a poll that pits an alliance including Iranian- and Syrian-backed Hezbollah, which Washington classifies as a terrorist organization, against an anti-Syrian coalition now holding a majority in parliament.

Many experts predict gains for Hezbollah and its allies. Russia on Wednesday said the international community must recognize the result of Lebanon's general election regardless of who wins a majority.

Hezbollah is the only Lebanese faction to remain armed after Lebanon's 1975-90 civil war and that has involved itself in domestic politics.

In a statement at the end of the visit on April 15, the IMF mission said Lebanon's financial system had so far weathered the global financial crisis and shown a "remarkable resilience" to the global downturn.

The IMF has supported the country under an Emergency Post-conflict Assistance program since 2007.

(Editing by Will Dunham)

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 04:35 AM

Oh yes ofcourse, down with all jew girls...kill them all ? Dude, stop embarrassing yourself

btw....all the politicians had to great this childkiller, including the president, and they also had to great the Hezbollah war criminals, aint that great. :cheers:

but please, ignore me, continue on in your bid to praise Israel.

Oh you mean GREET!!!

you didn't answer my question. do you believe that samir Kuntar is a child killer. and if so do you think it is justified for him to do so.

alisaleh

May 28th, 2009, 04:56 AM

i know he didn't kill her, and if he had, i wouldn't justify it.

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 04:56 AM

i know he didn't kill her, and if he had, i wouldn't justify it.

We obviously differ in opinion, but at least I know now that you don't knowingly support child killers. Thank you!

Abu 3Leish

May 28th, 2009, 08:38 AM

why do you people care who killed who ?
inno it was a good 30 yrs ago ..GET OVER IT

jader3283

May 28th, 2009, 02:34 PM

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 03:28 PM

wow melkart. Maybe you where not there when they released samir kuntab, ALL political parties welcomed him, not even the most anti-Hezbollah Lebanese person was angry to see a innocent man come back after 30+ years of captivity, and see his family. Are you telling me that you actually saw evil in his eyes when he came back or did you see evil in the eyes of his family? are you telling me that all Lebanese are child killer supporters? are you telling me the president is a child killer supporter? are you telling me that harriri is a child killer supporter? This argument is absolutely ridiculous.

Many march 14th politicians did not attend the event! and shame on those who attended the event for not having any balls to stand up for what is right! Samir Kuntar is a child killer. He already confessed to the crime. Pretending that he is innocent doesn't make him a nice guy.

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 03:29 PM

why do you people care who killed who ?
inno it was a good 30 yrs ago ..GET OVER IT

LOL no comment!

alisaleh

May 28th, 2009, 04:27 PM

Many march 14th politicians did not attend the event! and shame on those who attended the event for not having any balls to stand up for what is right! Samir Kuntar is a child killer. He already confessed to the crime. Pretending that he is innocent doesn't make him a nice guy.

Lol many march 14 politicians? lol the main ones were there

Junblatt (who I am beginning to like a little, for his rationality)
Saad al Hariri
I believe Ja3ja3 was there
the druze shiekhs
vetran March 14 politicians...

and Fakhamit al Ra2ees Michel Sleiman
Just the fact that they were there...and the president greeted him in the airport, with a military band, etc....please, this man is a legend, and this day has become a national holiday LMAO.....what more do you want? it seems to me that the majority of Lebanese enjoy to be in the presence of Child Killers...

he confessed? no he didn't, he always said that he never confessed to anything, he said that he didn't even force the girl to come with them, but the father of the girl insisted....

then, in the firefight, the girl was shot
---
him actually standing up and going to palestine....that is enough for me to know what kind of person he is....but to tell me, that while Israeli police were shooting at him, he just decided to turn around and crush her head, with a rock (allegedly)...now THAT sounds rediculous, and honestly, I would trust a Lebanese PEASANT before I trust the Israeli PRESIDENT....but please, ignore me, continue defending Israel...forget i ever commented here...continue to talk about how you are indifferent about the Israeli spy networks which have been discovered, and you would rather care about the Imaginary Iranian and Syrian spies, who I am not denying have a presence in Lebanon, but emphasize the fact that till now there is no proof....continue to defend Israel over a Lebanese group....you make me sick, you would probably be one of those villagers who throws flowers at the Israeli army as they invade lebanon....:ohno:

lol uh no offense....you know what, screw that.....your comments are ridiculous

houssam

May 28th, 2009, 04:48 PM

I promised my self i would not post here but this has to stop!
Samir l kuntar IS a child Killer and that "thing" that happened at the airport was the single most humiliating thing i v witnessed ever in our nation's entire history .. it was a shame and a disgrace for the president and for all the cowards that were there.
it's one thing bringing him back but making him a hero.....:ohno:
i can understand the fighter who fights to defend his land and i respect him
but what that man did was the farthest thing from "defending his land"...

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 04:52 PM

Lol many march 14 politicians? lol the main ones were there

Junblatt (who I am beginning to like a little, for his rationality)
Saad al Hariri
I believe Ja3ja3 was there
the druze shiekhs
vetran March 14 politicians...

and Fakhamit al Ra2ees Michel Sleiman
Just the fact that they were there...and the president greeted him in the airport, with a military band, etc....please, this man is a legend, and this day has become a national holiday LMAO.....what more do you want? it seems to me that the majority of Lebanese enjoy to be in the presence of Child Killers...

he confessed? no he didn't, he always said that he never confessed to anything, he said that he didn't even force the girl to come with them, but the father of the girl insisted....

then, in the firefight, the girl was shot
---
him actually standing up and going to palestine....that is enough for me to know what kind of person he is....but to tell me, that while Israeli police were shooting at him, he just decided to turn around and crush her head, with a rock (allegedly)...now THAT sounds rediculous, and honestly, I would trust a Lebanese PEASANT before I trust the Israeli PRESIDENT....but please, ignore me, continue defending Israel...forget i ever commented here...continue to talk about how you are indifferent about the Israeli spy networks which have been discovered, and you would rather care about the Imaginary Iranian and Syrian spies, who I am not denying have a presence in Lebanon, but emphasize the fact that till now there is no proof....continue to defend Israel over a Lebanese group....you make me sick, you would probably be one of those villagers who throws flowers at the Israeli army as they invade lebanon....:ohno:

lol uh no offense....you know what, screw that.....your comments are ridiculous

you can call me all the names you'd like, but the fact that some of the march 14th politicians were there to greet him doesn't make it right. I Don't know why you keep insisting that they (the march 14th politicians) were there as if I really care! Amin Gemayel wasn't nor was nayla Moawad. Personally I am getting a little fet up with all the accusations against me of being an israeli supporter everytime i critisize Hisballah. so if my comments are ridiculous and you want to avoid a discusion with me please do so! and stop annoying me!!!

P.S: those villagers that threw rice and flowers to welcome the advancing Israeli troops in 1982 were mostly shiites, cause they were so fet up with the palestinians.

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 04:55 PM

jader3283

May 28th, 2009, 05:09 PM

I bet you, that 90 percent of lebanese people that think samir kuntar is a child killer is in this forum. While you guys are at it why dont u move to israel, to become a israeli lawyer. I never thought i would hear a lebanese person say the things you guys said. I wish i never found out that there are people like you guys in this forum. How ridiculous. And you say that Hezbollah is radical. I dont think someone can get more radical then you guys. Its funny how you guys support march 14, but trust the israeli president and media, more then your own leaders, and their media. Just imagine what rafic harriri would think. Lebanese people trusting israeli media, and calling a innocent man a child killer. Once again i say you must of not watched when he arrived in Lebanon, or no any info about him. So lets bring this all toegether.
1. You think the lebanese people are child killer supporters.
2. You trust and support the Israeli, president and media.
3. You dont trust the Lebanese president.
4. You dont trust the March 14 leaders.
5. Well actually you don't trust any Lebanese leader.

Like i said before, you guys should go into a career of Israeli law school.
I respect everybodys opinions, but this is going to far.

Beiruti

May 28th, 2009, 07:01 PM

I will only say he is innocent once March 8 supporters agree that Geagea is innocent.

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 07:15 PM

Lebanese Cedar

May 28th, 2009, 07:40 PM

you got this all wrong!! A crime is a crime. I am all for arresting criminals, No one is asking for pardoning criminals. but what we are saying here is that the israeli spy network isn't what it is made out to be. yes i have been following the political debates and yes I am aware of the march 14th stance in criticizing Iran and Syria. I understand that there is some degree of freedom of expression, but that is happening only because the march 14th are persisting in defending the nation from Iranian and syrian domination. Don't forget they assasinated our politicians one by one, until they paralised the majority.

I got what all wrong????? Yes a crime is a crime, but for some reason, you think spying for Israel (an enemy state) isn't a crime!

What do you mean it isn't what it is made out to be? Clearly you haven't been following the news about the recent arrests and the equipment they've been confiscating. They're not just spying on Hezbollah. They were also gathering information on key infrastructure in the country such as bridges.

Also, what does the issue of anti-Syria/Iran politicians getting assassinated have to do with this topic? These are two completely different issues so why bring it up?

The hypocrisy about your argument is had these been Iranian/Syrian spies collecting intelligence on March 14 leaders or information on bridges in Lebanon, you'd be praising their arrest, but if they're Israeli spies, you criticize their arrest?

You are condemning one crime but being apologetic to another crime, when you should be condemning all crimes whether they be assassinations against politicians or spies.

This very blind one sided view of yours is dangerous. It's no different than the very one sided view held by March 8 with its completely apologetic Syria and Iran stance.

March 14 acknowledges all threats, whether they by Syrian/Iranian or Israeli. They're not apologetic to Israeli threats like you are.

Lebanese Cedar

May 28th, 2009, 07:43 PM

^^ :blahblah:

if he's a childkiller, then I must be a child killer Adorer....

Sorry, but nothing justifies murdering civilians, especially children.

Samir Kuntar is a childkiller. This heinous action of his has nothing to do with defending Lebanon or resisting Israel.

I have no sympathy or respect for this man.

I promised my self i would not post here but this has to stop!
Samir l kuntar IS a child Killer and that "thing" that happened at the airport was the single most humiliating thing i v witnessed ever in our nation's entire history .. it was a shame and a disgrace for the president and for all the cowards that were there.
it's one thing bringing him back but making him a hero.....:ohno:
i can understand the fighter who fights to defend his land and i respect him
but what that man did was the farthest thing from "defending his land"...

Completely agree.

I will only say he is innocent once March 8 supporters agree that Geagea is innocent.

Geagea isn't innocent and neither are Berri or Jumblatt. None of them are innocent.

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 07:53 PM

I got what all wrong????? Yes a crime is a crime, but for some reason, you think spying for Israel (an enemy state) isn't a crime!

What do you mean it isn't what it is made out to be? Clearly you haven't been following the news about the recent arrests and the equipment they've been confiscating. They're not just spying on Hezbollah. They were also gathering information on key infrastructure in the country such as bridges.

Also, what does the issue of anti-Syria/Iran politicians getting assassinated have to do with this topic? These are two completely different issues so why bring it up?

The hypocrisy about your argument is had these been Iranian/Syrian spies collecting intelligence on March 14 leaders or information on bridges in Lebanon, you'd be praising their arrest. But somehow because these are Israeli spies, it's bad that they're getting caught?

You are condemning one crime but being apologetic to another crime, when you should be condemning all crimes whether they be assassination against politicians or spies.

This very blind one sided view of yours is dangerous. It's no different than the very one sided view held by March 8 with its completely apologetic Syria and Iran stance.

March 14 acknowledges all threats, whether they by Syrian/Iranian or Israeli. They're not apologetic to Israeli threats like you are.

first of all you need to tone down your rhetoric. you are flaling your arms and throwing accusations based on assumptions calling me this and calling me that. as I said before and I'll say it again a crime is a crime. I have been following the news, I am aware of all the equipment they have confiscated. yes spying is a crime on either side. and you are right about my biasim towards israel in terms of arresting israeli spies vs. Iranian ones. I don't see Israel as a big threat. but I agree arresting criminals including israeli spies is a good thing. so relax I am not saying they shouldn't arrest them, I am just saying that it's the last thing on my mind. and u didn't answer my previous question? about Israel wanting to weaken the state rather than hisballah!

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 07:56 PM

Geagea isn't innocent and neither are Berri or Jumblatt. None of them are innocent.

I think Beiruti is refering about the church bombing and the assasination of dani chamoun. which they claim Geagea was responsible. in this regard he is innocent. but if you want to hold him responsible for killing innocent civilians during the civil war than you are right they are all criminals.

Beiruti

May 28th, 2009, 08:09 PM

Geagea isn't innocent and neither are Berri or Jumblatt. None of them are innocent.

I meant for the crime he was accused of and subsequently spent 11 years of his life underground for.

Lebanese Cedar

May 28th, 2009, 08:35 PM

I am just saying that it's the last thing on my mind. and u didn't answer my previous question? about Israel wanting to weaken the state rather than hisballah!

My answer: both. They want to get rid of Hezbollah but they also want a subservient depressed state.

Based on the choice of targets in the 2006 war, Israel clearly wanted to plunder the country's infrastructure and thus weaken the state and its economy. Even the UN and other Human Rights organizations have drawn this conclusion.

What you need to understand is a prosperous, united, and stable Lebanon would be a threat to Israel's ideology as a Jewish state. Since Lebanon is a very diverse country, if it were one day able to prosper as a secular state with all its people united working together, this would greatly detract Israel's credibility in continuing to exist as a Jewish State in front of critics.

It would boost the argument of those who advocate Palestinian right of return and the transformation of Israel into a secular state for both Jews and Palestinians. It would greatly weaken the "Jewish State" argument.

Israel fears democratization in the Middle East. It has always championed itself as the "only democracy in the Middle East" and if its northern neighbor is able to not only become democratic, but also become a functional secular democracy for all its people, Israel would no find itself in a difficult situation ideologically and would face both internal and external pressures to change.

There is no doubt that Israel would like to get Hezbollah off its back, but it certainly wouldn't like to see a prosperous Lebanon. Israel's strategy has always been to divide and conquer its foes. Look at how divided the Palestinians are right now between Fatah and Hamas.

Despite Rafiq Hariri being a moderate who did not want to see Lebanon dragged into endless conflicts with Israel, because he was charismatic, popular, and influential, Israel feared him. They especially feared him for his very good relations with the West and much of the world.

To expand this further, neighboring Arab states also would not like to see Lebanon to prosper democratically. Since Arab countries are largely very autocratic and dictatorial, they fear a democratically prosperous Lebanon as it would increase calls for democratic reforms in their own states. Egypt is facing this issue right now.

Syria, one of the most autocratic Arab regimes, fears Lebanese democracy for this very reason as well.

This is why many Arab states have been very fearful of US efforts to democratize Iraq, including the US' closest allies such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

They all have an interest to see Lebanon weak for different reasons. Lebanon has always been their playground and they want it to stay that way.

I meant for the crime he was accused of and subsequently spent 11 years of his life underground for.

Understood now.

jader3283

May 28th, 2009, 08:40 PM

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 08:48 PM

melkart

May 28th, 2009, 08:57 PM

My answer: both. They want to get rid of Hezbollah but they also want a subservient depressed state.

Based on the choice of targets in the 2006 war, Israel clearly wanted to plunder the country's infrastructure and thus weaken the state and its economy. Even the UN and other Human Rights organizations have drawn this conclusion.

What you need to understand is a prosperous, united, and stable Lebanon would be a threat to Israel's ideology as a Jewish state. Since Lebanon is a very diverse country, if it were one day able to prosper as a secular state with all its people united working together, this would greatly detract Israel's credibility in continuing to exist as a Jewish State in front of critics.

It would boost the argument of those who advocate Palestinian right of return and the transformation of Israel into a secular state for both Jews and Palestinians. It would greatly weaken the "Jewish State" argument.

Israel fears democratization in the Middle East. It has always championed itself as the "only democracy in the Middle East" and if its northern neighbor is able to not only become democratic, but also become a functional secular democracy for all its people, Israel would no find itself in a difficult situation ideologically and would face both internal and external pressures to change.

There is no doubt that Israel would like to get Hezbollah off its back, but it certainly wouldn't like to see a prosperous Lebanon. Israel's strategy has always been to divide and conquer its foes. Look at how divided the Palestinians are right now between Fatah and Hamas.

Despite Rafiq Hariri being a moderate who did not want to see Lebanon dragged into endless conflicts with Israel, because he was charismatic, popular, and influential, Israel feared him. They especially feared him for his very good relations with the West and much of the world.

To expand this further, neighboring Arab states also would not like to see Lebanon to prosper democratically. Since Arab countries are largely very autocratic and dictatorial, they fear a democratically prosperous Lebanon as it would increase calls for democratic reforms in their own states. Egypt is facing this issue right now.

Syria, one of the most autocratic Arab regimes, fears Lebanese democracy for this very reason as well.

This is why many Arab states have been very fearful of US efforts to democratize Iraq, including the US' closest allies such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

They all have an interest to see Lebanon weak for different reasons. Lebanon has always been their playground and they want it to stay that way.

Understood now.

Look It is a posibility that Israel wants a weak Lebanese state, I won't argue with that, cause I can't really know for certain. Right now the biggest issue for me is hisballah's arms. yes the spy network is a crime and yes Israel is not a friend. Until hisballah disarms, Lebanon will always be weak and divided. so I am not exactly sure where I am going with this, but to answer your question I don't justify nor am I a fan of the state of Israel. Iran however is a much bigger threat to me right now than Israel! if we solve the hisballah issue I am confident we can solve the israeli issue as well. whether israel likes it or not.

Abdallah K.

May 28th, 2009, 10:49 PM

Wow guys wow.... Israel MASSACARED THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN in Lebanon and Gaza and your here fighting over one guy who is "claimed" to have killed ONE CHILD!!
Whats wrong with you? Israel kills innocent children everyday! There the bloodthirsty child killers ok..i dont care if Samir Kuntar did or did not kill that girl, its not a subject to be arguing by saying that hes a "Child Killer" while Israel is the one massacaring children and people like crazy and acting like its normal!

Lebanese Cedar

May 28th, 2009, 11:59 PM

Look It is a posibility that Israel wants a weak Lebanese state, I won't argue with that, cause I can't really know for certain. Right now the biggest issue for me is hisballah's arms. yes the spy network is a crime and yes Israel is not a friend. Until hisballah disarms, Lebanon will always be weak and divided. so I am not exactly sure where I am going with this, but to answer your question I don't justify nor am I a fan of the state of Israel. Iran however is a much bigger threat to me right now than Israel! if we solve the hisballah issue I am confident we can solve the israeli issue as well. whether israel likes it or not.

Well that's not your earlier stated position. Earlier you were praising the Israeli spies and "hoped that they would multiply."

Wow guys wow.... Israel MASSACARED THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN in Lebanon and Gaza and your here fighting over one guy who is "claimed" to have killed ONE CHILD!!
Whats wrong with you? Israel kills innocent children everyday! There the bloodthirsty child killers ok..i dont care if Samir Kuntar did or did not kill that girl, its not a subject to be arguing by saying that hes a "Child Killer" while Israel is the one massacaring children and people like crazy and acting like its normal!

I'm not disputing that, but that still doesn't make Samir Kuntar innocent or that what he did was justifiable.

We can't start becoming apologetic for a child killer just because Israel has killed thousands of children.

Two wrongs doesn't make it right.

It's about taking the higher moral ground.

melkart

May 29th, 2009, 12:49 AM

Well that's not your earlier stated position. Earlier you were praising the Israeli spies and "hoped that they would multiply."

Again Israel is the least of my concern right now!!! I am sure There are plenty of other israeli spies still working undetcted! just like there are spies working for other nations as well. Surely Israel will still find a way to gather its intelligence. they even managed to recruit palestinians. without the existence of hisballah there would be no israeli threat.

LeB-iT

May 29th, 2009, 01:00 AM

^^it's actually the opposite, without the existence of Israel there wouldn't be Hizballa to start with hehe

Abdallah K.

May 29th, 2009, 01:31 AM

Well that's not your earlier stated position. Earlier you were praising the Israeli spies and "hoped that they would multiply."

I'm not disputing that, but that still doesn't make Samir Kuntar innocent or that what he did was justifiable.

We can't start becoming apologetic for a child killer just because Israel has killed thousands of children.

Two wrongs doesn't make it right.

It's about taking the higher moral ground.

I wasnt Disputing with you Lebanese Cedar. This was actually meant for someone else..Yes two wrongs do not make it right, But some people dispute that Samir Kuntar didnt kill that girl while others claim that he did, so its up to you to decide, I will personally not share my opinion to avoid crazy heated debates.

Abdallah K.

May 29th, 2009, 01:31 AM

^^it's actually the opposite, without the existence of Israel there wouldn't be Hizballa to start with hehe

Ya lol :lol:

alisaleh

May 29th, 2009, 04:23 AM

Again Israel is the least of my concern right now!!! I am sure There are plenty of other israeli spies still working undetcted! just like there are spies working for other nations as well. Surely Israel will still find a way to gather its intelligence. they even managed to recruit palestinians. without the existence of hisballah there would be no israeli threat.

After thoroughly analyzing your comments, I have determined a common structure between all of them, and it goes something like

Sentence #

1) Mention the Israeli spies
2) Mention the fact that you would like a couple of more in Lebanon
3) You make it clear that as long as Israel is fighting Hezbollah, you are supportive
4) You mention the fact that you care more about the Imaginary Iranian/Syrian threat
5) You somehow conclude, that it is ALL Hezbollah's fault.

alisaleh

May 29th, 2009, 04:33 AM

Any of you guys give me one, just one piece of evidence that he is a child killer.
Other then the Israeli media. Was their any evidence that he killed the girl. Furthermore, do you actually believe that hezbollah is a group devoted to killing little children?

I double what Jader said.

SHOW US EVIDENCE that Samir Kuntar, risked going into Palestine, on an inflatable boat, inorder to kill an Israeli girl.

How do we know this is not just a fabricated lie by the Israeli police? It is so easy for them to make up this lie, in Samir Kuntar you could find all of the right accusations, and the people would just believe him. The fact that he is Arab/Lebanese, just tops it all.

But how can we agree on this topic, when we still have users questioning the fact of whether or not Israel meant to destroy Lebanon.

Also, how can we agree on this topic, when people here think Hezbollah is full of blood thirsty savages who like to destroy things and kill people.

You guys damned the soldiers who came from the prisoner swap, saying that you would have wished for them to have stayed in Israeli prisons.

You know, it is one thing to support March 14, a Lebanese group
but it is another thing to sway towards the Israeli side.

To me, Melkart, you are not concerned about the safety of Lebanon, rather, you just like to bash Hezbollah. And that is a fact, I have seen it in ALL of your comments. The reason you won't agree with Israel being an enemy, a target, a threat, and conspiring against us, is because then you would have to partially agree with Hezbollah. You want to make it as if there is no point at all for the existence of Hezbollah, you want to make it seem as if Hezbollah is fighting the Lebanese, and not Israel. Iran has never done anything to any other country for you to even be afraid, or even consider them a threat. Israel on the other hand, what HAVENT they done? It is the same as when people address Iran's nuclear program as a direct threat to Israel, when it is infact Israel who has over 200 nuclear warheads pointed at Iran. Why is it that people find Iran as an easy target, when infact, compared to other nations, US INCLUDED, Iran is an angel (not saying they are angels, but COMPARED)

alisaleh

May 29th, 2009, 06:06 AM

WHEN will the election results come out?

melkart

May 29th, 2009, 02:14 PM

^^it's actually the opposite, without the existence of Israel there wouldn't be Hizballa to start with hehe

that might be the case originally. Although in 1982 Israel's main goal was to purge Lebanon from the PLO. Right now Hisballah is the reason for any future Israeli Threats. for example the 2006 war. Hisballah instigated the war, even though Israel was heavy handed, and fought unproportionally, it still remains Hisballah's fault for starting that war.

melkart

May 29th, 2009, 03:44 PM

I wasnt Disputing with you Lebanese Cedar. This was actually meant for someone else..Yes two wrongs do not make it right, But some people dispute that Samir Kuntar didnt kill that girl while others claim that he did, so its up to you to decide, I will personally not share my opinion to avoid crazy heated debates.

why would it be meant for someone else, we both agreed (meaning myself and Lebanese Cedar) that samir Kuntar is a child Killer. so your statemenet was in reference to both of ours.

melkart

May 29th, 2009, 06:09 PM

After thoroughly analyzing your comments, I have determined a common structure between all of them, and it goes something like

Sentence #

1) Mention the Israeli spies
2) Mention the fact that you would like a couple of more in Lebanon
3) You make it clear that as long as Israel is fighting Hezbollah, you are supportive
4) You mention the fact that you care more about the Imaginary Iranian/Syrian threat
5) You somehow conclude, that it is ALL Hezbollah's fault.

Ali I think you're on to something. Keep searching buddy! :lol:

Abdallah K.

May 29th, 2009, 09:08 PM

why would it be meant for someone else, we both agreed that samir Kuntar is a child Killer. so your statemenet was in reference to both of us.

I NEVER said Samir was a child killer i just said that two wrongs do not make a right. so we DONT agree

melkart

May 29th, 2009, 09:43 PM

I NEVER said Samir was a child killer i just said that two wrongs do not make a right. so we DONT agree

dude read what I read again. you're not making any sence.

Tabouleh

May 29th, 2009, 11:47 PM

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 01:13 AM

^^ This is not going to happen :)

alisaleh

May 30th, 2009, 02:26 AM

^^ This is not going to happen :)

Please be more clear in your comment. Yes, this will not happen. But does Hezbollah even want this? No

Jayme

May 30th, 2009, 03:40 AM

Israel is stupid... Lebanon will never have a Iranian style regime ...idoits they love to scare their own people about Lebanon.

alisaleh

May 30th, 2009, 04:08 AM

^^

They are intimidating the Lebanese not to vote for March 8. What do you think about that?

Jayme

May 30th, 2009, 04:35 AM

I dont think a lebanese will care what Israel thinks...Everyone is free to vote who they want.

Lebneni

May 30th, 2009, 04:57 AM

^^

They are intimidating the Lebanese not to vote for March 8. What do you think about that?

Maybe you forgot to listen to what Najad sd a couple of days ago, that a win by the opposition will put lebanon in the resistance camp in the region.
No one thinks, lebanon will have an iranian style regime, but it is also clear that if HA wins, lebanon's foreign policy would be a copy's of Iran's foreign policy, useless bla bla and confrontation with the west while the people are starving.

Jayme

May 30th, 2009, 05:03 AM

I hope Lebanon will still have good realtions to the west... France and Russia said they will still support Lebanon who ever wins the elections. I think countries like Australia would not be to close to a country were Hezbollah has majority power.

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 01:46 PM

Please be more clear in your comment. Yes, this will not happen. But does Hezbollah even want this? No

I said this is will not happen , because March 8 WON'T WIN :)

melkart

May 30th, 2009, 04:46 PM

I said this is will not happen , because March 8 WON'T WIN :)

I hope you're right!

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 04:55 PM

^^ Just wait and see :)

alisaleh

May 30th, 2009, 04:57 PM

Marjayoun, May 30: "Who's next?" The question is on everyone's mind in southern Lebanon where dozens of people have been detained in recent weeks on suspicion of spying for neighbouring Israel.

"If someone falls ill and doesn't show up to work, we all wonder whether he's been arrested for spying," Mohammed, who owns a garage in the town of Marjayoun, located near the border with Israel, told reporters.

"Two policemen showed up at someone's house recently for a minor offence and rumour quickly spread that he was a collaborator," added Mohammed, who gave only his first name.

So far, 21 people have been charged with spying on behalf of the Jewish state and several dozen more have been detained, including an Army colonel and a retired general.

Officials say the probe into the spy networks, which comes as the country prepares for elections on June 7, is far from over with more arrests expected.

Anyone convicted of high treason faces up to life in prison or even capital punishment in Lebanon, which is still technically at war with Israel.

In villages and towns across the south of the country, the spy scandal has hit hard and prompted a collective paranoia with everyone looking over their shoulder, suspicious of their neighbour.

Still fresh in the minds of many here is Israel's occupation of the region between 1978 and 2000, when many locals collaborated with the enemy under the umbrella of the South Lebanon Army (SLA), a militia which was allied with the Israelis.

Many members of the SLA, which was based in Marjayoun, fled to Israel in 2000 when the Jewish state withdrew its troops from Lebanon.

Robert Kfoury, a resident of Marjayoun who is in the construction business, was considered by his neighbours a regular family man.

That's until his arrest in April on spying charges.

Standing on the balcony of his two-storey modest home surrounded by citrus and fruit trees, his wife refuses to discuss his case.

"Robert has nothing to do with all this," she shouts. "All of these accusations are false."

His neighbours, however, say news of his arrest had cleared up many unanswered questions.

"In 2006, during the war between Hezbollah and Israel, the entire neighbourhood was destroyed except for Robert's house," said Noha Hammoud. "What a coincidence!"

Several other neighbours interviewed said they were baffled by his actions.

"I can understand someone collaborating with the enemy when we were under occupation," said one man who did not wish to be identified. "But doing this now, that's unacceptable."

Further south, in the village of Qolayaa, residents are still stunned by allegations that one of their own, Elie El-Hayek, was an Israeli spy.

Officials say El-Hayek, a 51-year-old maths teacher, fled to Israel with his wife and three children last week fearing his cover had been blown.

The front door of his house, which sits on the edge of the village, is padlocked.

"He rented the house two and a half years ago," said one neighbour. "He would say 'hi' and I would chat sometimes with his wife Therese but they never invited me into their home.

-----------------------------------------

My Take: These spies have been in Lebanon for a long time now, but they had been on the low down, they recently started working, and left tracks, which is why officials were able to find them.

I WONDER, what KIND of work had they started on, why would Israel start now? These spies are know for pinpointing targets to Israel....Very suspicious :shifty:

alisaleh

May 30th, 2009, 04:59 PM

^^ Just wait and see :)

Staghfarallah

Fee Rab, and I don't think Lebanese want another 4 years of.....corruption....

Inshallah the opposition will be victorious

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 05:00 PM

^^ lol

and the world will let israel attack Lebanon now ? the world has changed , we r not in 2006 anymore.

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 05:01 PM

Staghfarallah

Fee Rab, and I don't think Lebanese want another 4 years of.....corruption....

Inshallah the opposition will be victorious

As if they were not in government , lol , u r funny :lol:
3njad , even when they WENT OUT of the government , they made wars and occupied downtown and west Beirut , lol , this is the Lebanon you want ? :lol:

alisaleh

May 30th, 2009, 05:12 PM

But....you know what, I have better things to do than to hold online debates with people who only see one way... cheers

melkart

May 30th, 2009, 05:17 PM

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 05:23 PM

But....you know what, I have better things to do than to hold online debates with people who only see one way... cheers

and you see two ways of the story ???
lol,why don't u go and analyze what Ahmadi nejad said about the Lebanese elections??? it's better for you , maybe you will start to see the OTHER SIDE of the story ;)

melkart

May 30th, 2009, 05:27 PM

But....you know what, I have better things to do than to hold online debates with people who only see one way... cheers

I want to hear some examples of the corruption that you are talking about. Not that I am insinuating that corruption doesn't exist. but I have a feeling that you resort to cliches about march 14th to justify your logic. so if they the march 14th are so corrupt how about you give us some solid examples.

P.S: General Aoun robbed half the treasury before leaving Lebanon for France. so sounds like you have some corrupt politicians working on your side.

alisaleh

May 30th, 2009, 05:33 PM

melkart

May 30th, 2009, 05:42 PM

^^ WHAT THE HELL DOES AHMADINIJAD HAVE TO DO WITH LEBANON....

this is the newest accusation against March 8

----------
Tripartite Gov.
May 7- glorious day
Ahmadinejad
War
Bad Economy
Ahmadinjed-or Sfeir
Iran & Syria invading
Iranian Regime
------------------
the only one intimidating their followers ARE MARCH 14

you're avoiding my question and you know it. I asked for examples of corruption.

alisaleh

May 30th, 2009, 05:50 PM

^^ actually, I wasn't avoiding your question, I didn't even SEE your question

but nonetheless, I won't ANSWER it, not because I am avoiding, but Because this is a free country, and I don't have to debate anyone online anymore, it's stupid.

As you can see, I was posting in direct response to Hassoun, but you posted before me.

melkart

May 30th, 2009, 05:52 PM

alisaleh

May 30th, 2009, 05:56 PM

melkart

May 30th, 2009, 06:12 PM

Lebneni

May 30th, 2009, 06:29 PM

^^ oh most definitely

I haven't done something I have been wanting to do for a VERY long time....I am just waiting for the Election results...

if you have been here for a long time, I think you know what it is

and then I will just leave and allow everyone to talk all the bullshit they want, which is what basically was present around here, before I came.

If you win the elections, it s b/c of the stupid christians voting for FPM, (BTW i m christian so i m allowed to call them stupid)
You know very well that there is no way in hell HA can win the majority in Lebanon if it wasnt for Aoun, but what can i say they discovered aoun's weak point in his eternal lust for power and are playing their cards very well.

Hopefully the people who would vote for FPM are smart enough to see that although i highly doubt it :nuts:

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 06:32 PM

^^ WHAT THE HELL DOES AHMADINIJAD HAVE TO DO WITH LEBANON....

this is the newest accusation against March 8

----------
Tripartite Gov.
May 7- glorious day
Ahmadinejad
War
Bad Economy
Ahmadinjed-or Sfeir
Iran & Syria invading
Iranian Regime
------------------
the only one intimidating their followers ARE MARCH 14

And What March 14 done to the Lebanese people ???
why people are afraid of March 14 ???

BTW,without March 14 and its leaders long time ago , we wouldn't have projects to talk about here in Lebanon.

alisaleh

May 30th, 2009, 06:37 PM

^^

It is impossible for anygroup to win without an alliance, so if you want to attack the FPM-Hezbollah alliance, the other alliances aren't any different.

Saad cannot win by himself
Ja3ja3 cannot win by himself
Jumblatt cannot win by himself
Aoun cannot win by himself
Sayyed Hassan cannot win by himself

So I don't understand how Hezbollah's alliance is any different from the other ones. Hezbollah is giving benefits to the FPM, and not the other way around, Hezbollah (and Amal) are giving the FPM around 98% of Shiite votes.

If you really want to see lust for power, look at Jumblatt's disses to his "allies", and look at the reaction by his "allies."

PS: Melkart, you got me, but this isn't technically debating, since I am only stating my opinion, and I will not argue.

alisaleh

May 30th, 2009, 06:43 PM

^^ Genius, before march 14 there were two occupations...

ofcourse there weren't any project

but what do projects really tell us...nothing

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 06:43 PM

If you win the elections, it s b/c of the stupid christians voting for FPM, (BTW i m christian so i m allowed to call them stupid)
You know very well that there is no way in hell HA can win the majority in Lebanon if it wasnt for Aoun, but what can i say they discovered aoun's weak point in his eternal lust for power and are playing their cards very well.

Hopefully the people who would vote for FPM are smart enough to see that although i highly doubt it :nuts:

Who said , Aoun will win aslan ? :D
lol,this year's election going to be his end " Politically ".

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 06:44 PM

^^ Genius, before march 14 there were two occupations...

ofcourse there weren't any project

but what do projects really tell us...nothing

If Hizvullah and his alliance were the people in power, no Sane investor will invest his money in Lebanon , where a war can happen anytime,but thank god , there's March 14 , to confront this madness.

jader3283

May 30th, 2009, 08:24 PM

BAALBEK, Lebanon - Iran is ready to give Lebanon military equipment, such as an air-defense system, to support its armed resistance against Israel, Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah said on Friday.

“The Islamic Republic of Iran, and in particular Ayatollah (Ali) Khamenei, will not hold back on anything that will help Lebanon be a strong and dignified state, and without conditions,” Nasrallah said.

“So far, Lebanon has not requested arms and Iran will not offer them unless asked,” he said in a televised address to mark the ninth anniversary of Israel’s troop withdrawal from southern Lebanon after 22 years.

“But Iran will help any Lebanese government that requests military aid,” he told a crowd of thousands gathered in the eastern Lebanon Hezbollah stronghold of Baalbek.

Nasrallah also dismissed as farcical US aid to the Lebanese army, which amounts to close to half a billion dollars in training and armament since 2005 but does not include anti-aircraft defense.

He urged his supporters to vote for his Hezbollah-led opposition alliance in the June 7 parliamentary election, saying his coalition would ensure the army was well-equipped to defend Lebanon against Israeli.

“Air defense systems are necessary for the army to face Israel,” he said.

“Who can secure these weapons for Lebanon? Vote for the opposition and I will point you in that direction,” he said in an apparent reference to Iran which backs the Hezbollah-led opposition alliance.

The June election will pit the Sunni-led Western-backed parliamentary majority against the Hezbollah-led alliance, which is also supported by Syria.

In 2006, Hezbollah and Israel fought a 34-day war that left over 1,200 Lebanese dead, mainly civilians, and more than 160 Israelis, mostly soldiers.

HerrParhom

May 30th, 2009, 08:50 PM

It's really annoying to me that Iran is begging to give away its resources while its own people are unemployed and furthermore, to Lebanon which, aside from the Shia population, has a population with an unfavorable opinion of the country.

HerrParhom

May 30th, 2009, 08:58 PM

^^ lol

and the world will let israel attack Lebanon now ? the world has changed , we r not in 2006 anymore.

Of course the world will let Israel attack Lebanon now. The world hasn't changed that much. Israel can and will do what they want to do; they have in the past, there's no reason things would be different three years later.

HerrParhom

May 30th, 2009, 09:14 PM

ok so I didn't know where to post this, so I thought I wouldn't take any chances... This is scary, I have been reading articles like this for the last two weeks...

Israel expecting Hizbullah win, Iran-style regime in Lebanon

TEL AVIV — Israel is bracing for a projected Hizbullah victory in upcoming Lebanese parliamentary elections. ShareThis

A report by a senior Israeli intelligence officer assessed that the Iranian-sponsored Hizbullah would capture the 128-member parliament in Lebanese elections on June 7. The officer, Mordechai Kedar, said the elections could lead to an Iranian-type regime in Beirut.
"Hizbullah is on a determined path to control Lebanon," Kedar said in a report for the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies. "The June 2009 parliamentary elections could be a watershed, leading to a result that the West will deeply regret — an Iranian-like regime."

"The Western world may soon have to contend with a number of difficult questions: How did the world lose a liberal, pluralistic state and fall asleep on guard while Iran took control?" the report asked. "Which state will be next to be overtaken by Iranian-funded Islamic extremists? What can be done to prevent the progress of Iran, especially if it becomes a nuclear power?"

Titled "Elections in Lebanon: A Hizballah Takeover?" the report said Hizbullah would win the support of the dominant Shi'ite community as well as segments of the once-ruling Christian minority. Kedar, a 25-year veteran of military intelligence as well as a research associate at BESA, said Hizbullah has won the support of major elements of the Christian community, which now constitute as little as 10 percent of Lebanon. The Christians include former President Michel Aoun.

[On May 26, Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi warned that Lebanon would become aligned with Iran should Hizbullah win parliamentary elections. Ashkenazi told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee that Hizbullah could capture a parliamentary majority.]

"Aoun and the others support Hizbullah because they understand that eventually the Shi'ite community will gain control of Lebanon, whether by fair means or foul, since the demographic balance is changing in favor of the Shi'ites, their military might is greater than the government's army, the Hizbullah civilian and economic infrastructure includes hundreds of companies, non-profit organizations, institutes and organizations, and Iranian money keeps Hizbullah's wheels greased," the report said.

The report said Hizbullah has been purchasing land and housing in Christian areas of Lebanon. Christian parliamentarians have been threatened to support Hizbullah and its agenda to change the confessional system.

One scenario would be the revival of a plan to establish a majority Christian and Druze state in the mountains of central Lebanon. The report said Hizbullah could use its military to attack such an entity.

source:
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2009/me_lebanon0428_05_28.asp

This is so goddamned annoying. Israel is using any excuse it can to aim its guns at Iran. I really don't see the benefit for them, really, but there you go...

My personal take is that Israel wants to be a regional power and the easiest place to expand its sphere of influence would be in Lebanon. This discussion board shows how easy it could be, with a good number of the posters saying how much they hate Iran and echoing the Israeli line that they'll only attack Lebanon if Hezbollah does x, y or z.

But guess what? Iran never destroyed your capital or the southern 1/3 of your country. Israel's goal has always been to make Lebanon what central America is to the US. Israel is, according to historical precedent, expantionist. I don't understand why so many posters on this forum are happy to stick their heads in the sand and repeat the Israeli line that they only have a bone to pick with Hezbollah. Ask any Lebanese sunni whose apartment was levelled in 1982 whether or not Israel's line that they only had a bone to pick with the PLO was true. Of course it isn't.

I am an American of Iranian descent. Trust me, I don't enjoy Iran's money going to Lebanon because A) there's no real strategic benefit and B) as this forum shows, most Lebanese are completely ungrateful and even hateful toward Iran, repeating the same BS the American right and Israelis do, equating Ahmadinejad to the entire country.

Believe me, I'm tempted to agree that if Hezbollah is disarmed, Israel will leave you all alone. I don't agree with Hezbollah's ideology and their obsession with Israel. But honestly, do you trust Israel to leave a weak Lebanon alone? Your country isn't capable of defending itself. I don't know why so many of your are annoyed that you actually have a militia capable of keeping Israel from re-occupying your territory. Remember in December when Israel was attacking Gaza and rockets fell into Northern Israel from Lebanon? Hezbollah didn't claim responsibility; who's to keep Israel from attacking you overwhelmingly if something like that happens again?

News reports like this piss me off. "Israel braces for Iranian style regime in Lebanon." Uhm, excuse me? Didn't Hezbollah rescind its stated goal of establishing an Islamic republic? And the language they use; it's clearly used to resonate with the hatred half of Lebanon and all of Israel have for Iran. Hatred that has no real basis. Even IF there were an Iranian style regime in Lebanon, why does Israel even need to care? Are they afraid they'll lose ONE soldier again? Any country that attacks another on such a massive scale for such an insignificant reason has NO interest in peace.

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 09:27 PM

Of course the world will let Israel attack Lebanon now. The world hasn't changed that much. Israel can and will do what they want to do; they have in the past, there's no reason things would be different three years later.

And Hizbullah will prevent Israel from attacking Lebanon ??? it didn't in 2006.

HerrParhom

May 30th, 2009, 09:29 PM

No, but they won't be able to get what they want out an attack if there's some decent defence.

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 09:32 PM

^^ lol , and why Iran didn't supply Lebanese army with weapons the whole passed years ???
anyway , Iran's weapons are not really good. we stick to USA,RUSSIA and FRANCE, better.

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 09:36 PM

^^ so , let Hizbullah integrate within the Lebanese army , as we March 14 supporters want, but NO ,, Hizbullah would prefer to be Iran's Puppet anyway.if Lebanon is what Hizbullah cares about , they would have accepted to integrate withing Lebanese army , at least to avoid internal problems after israel withdrew from most of Lebanese occupied land.

HerrParhom

May 30th, 2009, 09:40 PM

^^ lol , and why Iran didn't supply Lebanese army with weapons the whole passed years ???
anyway , Iran's weapons are not really good. we stick to USA,RUSSIA and FRANCE, better.

Oh please don't be snobby; you've only managed to aim them at each other.

Hassoun

May 30th, 2009, 09:44 PM

^^ what snobby ???? Iran's weapons now better than France's for example ???

HerrParhom

May 30th, 2009, 11:43 PM

^^ lol , and why Iran didn't supply Lebanese army with weapons the whole passed years ???
anyway , Iran's weapons are not really good. we stick to USA,RUSSIA and FRANCE, better.

This isn't snobby?

Anyway, is Iran offering to give any decent aircraft?

DingoBingo

May 30th, 2009, 11:59 PM

^^ Hassoun's post always remind me of Zohar. Baseless, snobbish, and no real clue behind it!

Jayme

May 31st, 2009, 12:43 AM

^^ lol , and why Iran didn't supply Lebanese army with weapons the whole passed years ???
anyway , Iran's weapons are not really good. we stick to USA,RUSSIA and FRANCE, better.

It might all change by next week :ohno:

Beiruti

May 31st, 2009, 12:44 AM

This topic doesnt deserve its own thread. When we see actual aid and continuous aid of significance, like that of USA's aid, then we can start a thread. Meanwhile...merged to EAYOR!

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 01:03 AM

^^ Hassoun's post always remind me of Zohar. Baseless, snobbish, and no real clue behind it!

and who are you???

Jayme

May 31st, 2009, 01:05 AM

This topic doesnt deserve its own thread. When we see actual aid and continuous aid of significance, like that of USA's aid, then we can start a thread. Meanwhile...merged to EAYOR!

Like that fishing boat they gave Lebanon ?

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 01:10 AM

Oh please don't be snobby; you've only managed to aim them at each other.

Iran can keep its weapons, and its nose out of lebanon and we ll be just fine

Jayme

May 31st, 2009, 01:21 AM

I was offerd a FREE ticket to Lebanon last night to vote in elections....BUT I made a this other ID no idea how to spell it... insted of those ID cards arghh I could have voted in elections !

HerrParhom

May 31st, 2009, 01:22 AM

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 01:26 AM

I was offerd a FREE ticket to Lebanon last night to vote in elections....BUT I made a this other ID no idea how to spell it... insted of those ID cards arghh I could have voted in elections !

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:
Sorry :D

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 01:28 AM

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 01:30 AM

Where's alisaleh to comment on his nasrallah about the weapons thing , ali said earlier that USA is blackmailing Lebanon when its vice president visited Lebanon saying that Lebanese army support depends on the elections result , what he thinks about what nasrallah said ??? lol , at least 14 Azar leaders didn't say if we won USA will support us with planes and tanks.
i really need an answer.

Jayme

May 31st, 2009, 01:33 AM

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:
Sorry :D

I could have been leaving tonight !

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 01:37 AM

You're right. I don't know why we keep giving money to people who hate us!

I seriously don't understand your mentality. Has French or American intervention ever helped Lebanon from being attacked, even before Iran had much influence? You people are seriously delusional. "Oh yeah, we hate Syria and Iran but we totally believe it when Israel says their only bone to pick is with Hezbollah." You've rejected one source of protection and are about to reject the only other source. I hope that the next time Israel decides to level your capital that your antique Hawker Hunter aircraft serve as effective defence. But hey, who am I to criticize? At least you have Starbucks.

hey maybe u need a history lesson, lebanon has probably had more occupiers in its history more than any other country and we managed to kick all of them out.
Spare us the israel scarecrow talk, and just like jordan and egypt are living in peace with israel we can do the same.

We don't need protection from anybody, and if i were you i d worry more right now about israel levelling your capital down.

So don't take this the wrong way, but if you re not lebanese please keep your nose out of our internal affairs and worry about the survival of your mullah regime and when iran wishes to help lebanon as a country instead of helping one side against the other then we ll think wether we need their help or not.

P.S. i hope you were not talking about syria when u were talking about the source of protection, let the syrians start by liberating their own occupied lands before offering protection to anybody

DingoBingo

May 31st, 2009, 01:59 AM

DingoBingo

May 31st, 2009, 02:01 AM

and who are you???

The one who keeps laughing at ur funny posts... lol

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 02:04 AM

U lebanese are so pathetic! U love to take it up the butt by Israel, but don't appreciate any help for u sissy military. I don't understand why Iran even bothers spending money on ur ungrateful nation.

read what i said above and apply it to yourself, we re happy being pathetic amongst each other... now get lost and go find someone who is willing to give it to you up the butt :)

oh and btw the only money iran gives is to its militia in Lebanon and the only reason for that is b/c they are shiaa not b/c iran is an incredibly generous country so najad and khamenei can take their money and shove it so deep that the sun will never shine on it

DingoBingo

May 31st, 2009, 02:15 AM

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 02:15 AM

The one who keeps laughing at ur funny posts... lol

And the one that about to get banned from our forum :)

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 02:16 AM

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 02:17 AM

WE WANT IRAN to start looking after its own people , leave Lebanon alone.
We also want Israel and Syria to leave us alone.
as simple as that.

DingoBingo

May 31st, 2009, 02:18 AM

Go cry to ur momma Hassoun!

DingoBingo

May 31st, 2009, 02:19 AM

WE WANT IRAN to start looking after its own people , leave Lebanon alone.
We also want Israel and Syria to leave us alone.
as simple as that.

That's what I want too, but what can we do? It's ur people who accept any help by anyone, since ur country can't look after itself!

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 02:19 AM

Yeh all their money goes to the Shia, but this time they proposed to help the lebanese army, and as they said they would help any government. Still not satisfied Lebneni?

I remeber some people over here saying if Iran wanted to help Lebanon they should help its army, and not Hezbollah. So what is that u people want?

iran will help the army if HA wins and its allies the election

We just want iran to keep its nose oustide of our internal business and we ll have great relations with it like we should with any other country.

If iran wants to help the army then we ll be very thankful to it but if that has conditions attached to it like HA winning the elections, then Iran is trying to blackmail the lebanese just like the US is trying to do and they can both keep their money

DingoBingo

May 31st, 2009, 02:21 AM

If iran wants to help the army then we ll be very thankful to it but if that has conditions attached to it like HA winning the elections, then Iran is trying to blackmail the lebanese just like the US is trying to do and they can both keep their money

Fair enough, this is what we all want!

Rabih

May 31st, 2009, 09:55 AM

Such words could only come from a sad, pathetic and bitter low life..
Since you're here, try to learn some dignity and pride that the Lebanese have for their country and heritage..

U lebanese are so pathetic! U love to take it up the butt by Israel, but don't appreciate any help for u sissy military. I don't understand why Iran even bothers spending money on ur ungrateful nation.

And if you think (and this goes to everyone here) that those bastard politicians represent Lebanon and summarize the Lebanese, then you're all sadly mistaken.

Lebanon is Gibran Khalil Gibran, Mikhael Naime, Fairouz, Shouhou, Georgina Rizk, Carmen Lebbos, Elie Saab, Nadine Labaki...

Lebanon is art and beauty not politics and war!

All this March14/opposition, Iran/US crap will soon be long forgotten for something else to occupy the daily Life in Lebanon.
But Khalil Gibran will always be read, Fairouz will always played in the morning, Shoushou for ever remembered ....

Am not against your political debate, but try not to forget who we really are and where we truly come from!

lebnani

May 31st, 2009, 10:09 AM

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 01:58 PM

http://www.nowlebanon.com/Library/Images/MainPagePictures/ithink14en.jpg
The March 14 forces’ recently released billboard campaign makes a pun on the famous Rene Descartes quote, “I think therefore I am.”

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 02:00 PM

The phantom fighters
Nasrallah over-exaggerated the plot against the Resistance.
Nadine Elali, NOW Staff , May 31, 2009

http://www.nowlebanon.com/ContentPictures/leader-420-053109123929.jpg
An opposition gunman walks along a barricaded street in Beirut in May 2008. (AFP/Ramzi Haidar)

After cabinet decision on May 5, 2008 to remove Hezbollah’s private telecommunications network, word spread that opposition supporters would attempt to seize the Grand Serail.

“I gathered my boys—some took taxis, others the bus—and headed for downtown,” says Sami, a Future Movement supporter from Miniyeh whose plan was to form a human shield to protect the seat of government from the opposition.

“When we arrived, we received a message telling us to leave, that the Lebanese army was responsible for protecting the Serail and that our presence might trigger clashes. We stayed the night in Beirut just in case. On May 7, the clashes broke out. We split up when the roads became blocked. I was driving with friends when we were ambushed in Raouche.”

Sami says over 180 rounds were fired at his car. He was hit six times. His two friends died. Sami readily admits that he wished he was armed at the time, but says the simple truth is that he wasn’t.

Conflicting claims

On the commemoration of Liberation Day last week, Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah altered his position twice on what exactly happened during last year’s May events, first calling May 7 a “glorious day” and then a week or so later a “painful and sad” one. However, both phrases were used in the pursuit of the same goal: to justify the violence unleashed by Hezbollah on that day, and in so doing, rewriting history.

According to Nasrallah’s version, the opposition’s forces intervened on May 7 only because the government was threatening the Resistance by shutting down its vital communications network and sending thousands of March 14 supporters into the streets of Beirut, who, Nasrallah claims, were well-armed and equally well-versed in military tactics. Their aim, he says, was to compromise the Resistance by involving it in a Sunni-Shia conflict that would snowball into a civil war.

Nasrallah argues that May 7 was essentially a preemptive war, aimed at preventing the civil war supposedly planned by the majority. “Before the Doha Agreement, the majority was plotting against the Resistance. Militias were being built under the cover of security firms, and they were sent to certain Arab countries to be trained. They even opened offices in Beirut for these armed militias,” Nasrallah said, adding, “I tell the Lebanese, Sunnis and Shia in particular, that the May 7 events put an end to sedition in Beirut. The majority aimed to create a rift between Sunni and Shia as an excuse for foreign troops to enter Lebanon to end civil war.”

However those Lebanese that Nasrallah claimed were intending to drag the country into civil war have a different version of events. They say that, while it is true that they were recruited before May 7, and that they were supported by private security personnel, they insist they had no weapons or knowledge of the battle that was about to happen. They say they were simply organized and sent to Beirut only to protect the streets.

“We come from villages. We are proud people,” Sami said a year later. “If we knew the fight was going to be of this sort, we would have proudly got our personal weapons with us. We are not afraid. But it wasn’t the case. We really didn’t have weapons.”

The climate of aggression

The 18 months between December of 2006, when the opposition downtown protests began, and the May 2008 civil unrest were characterized by rising tension between opposition and majority supporters on the streets of Beirut. Roads were blocked, tires burned and cars torched, and on January 25, 2007, a gun battle broke out at the Beirut Arab University, killing four and injuring dozens more. Alarmingly, the opposition supporters at the BAU fight were not adolescent males looking for a scrap, but instead older, more organized men, who arrived in trucks, wearing helmets and carrying improvised weapons, such as petrol bombs. When the shooting started, fearing an escalation, neighborhood residents prepared to defend themselves and their properties.

The security companies

Enter Security Plus, one of the security firms designed to protect areas of Beirut from clashes like the one at Beirut Arab University. Offering employment opportunities for many Beirutis and residents of Akkar, the company also provides personal security for some of the majority’s members of parliament as well as buildings in the Beirut Central District. However, the company also provides organized defense forces if needed, something that helps get youths off the streets as well as providing security on a larger scale. Men are recruited from villages, usually grouped together into platoons of 25 to 30. After street tension cools down, the men are sent home.

Members of Security Plus who fought on May 7 say their only aim was to protect. “We saw what happened in the clashes of the Arab University, and decided that it was our duty to defend the families of Beirut,” Hassan, a Future Movement partisan says. “They don’t need to leave their houses and go down to the streets to fight and leave their wives and kids in fear. We are men and can do it for them. We heeded the call, stayed in schools and offices around Beirut; some of us already knew one another because we came from villages close by and jointly decided to come and help if anything happens. We were not given weapons, nor trained, nor did we have a plan. The only aim was that when other clashes break out, we’d be ready to come and help, and it was made clear to us that if anything was to be used it’ll be sticks.”

On and around May 7

Hassan headed to Beirut on the night of May 7 in a truck with his friends. “We got a call, and were asked to go down to Beirut,” he says. “We reached the spot we were supposed to defend and stayed till midnight. No one contacted us. We didn’t have any weapons or food,” he recalls. “The boys were worried. There were phone calls about the armed clashes. We asked to be given something to defend ourselves with…We were given some sticks. At one point, we saw a group of armed men coming close and shooting at us. Our sticks were not going to do the job for this one. We thought it’ll be a boy’s street fight, some beating up and kicking… We weren’t ready for a war. So, we fled,” he says with a hint of shame.

Amer has another story. A Future member and Security Plus employee, he was guarding the Hariri Monument near the Saint George Hotel Beirut on May 7, when it was attacked by opposition supporters.

“We were heavily attacked,” he says. “A group of fighters were shooting everywhere and calling out for us to surrender. Three of my colleagues fled, but we stayed inside. They asked us to come out one by one crawling. We did. They asked us to give up our arms, but I told them we had none. They didn’t believe us. They looked around and found nothing. They asked us how we could consider fighting Hezbollah, the Resistance that took out Israel. We told them we didn’t; that we were just doing our jobs to earn some money.”

After his experience Amer left his job, and went back to his village in the North in hopes of finding more secure work.

“The scary part was that they didn’t believe us,” Amer says. “They actually believed that we were prepared fight.”

jader3283

May 31st, 2009, 02:58 PM

hey HerrParhom, dont worry not all lebanese are as closed-minded as they are. In my initial post i highlighted the will aid ANY Lebanese government part, but like usual they skipped right over it. Hassoun i really dont think you are talking about the same israel that i am talking about. To you israel is a nice little friendly country. that mids its own bussiness. NOT the israel that kicked thousands out of their country, and murdered them. NOT The country who has broke the most UN resolutions in the world. NOT The country that killed thousands of woman and children in 2006. in case you have not noticed ISRAEL CAN DO WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT. And as soon as they get the smallest excuse to kill lebanese THEY WILL TAKE IT. But it is funny, REALLY FUNNY, how you are blaming Iran for everything, and they are trying to help us. And it is EXTREMELY FUNNY how in every comment you post you are backing up israel. and in every comment you post you say israel is not capable of anything. and in every comment you say israel cannot fight lebanon, because the world wont let them. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 03:30 PM

^^ I am backing up Israel ????? what's wrong with you ? so , if i am against Iranian regime , i am with Israel ??? aren't u guys bored of this non-sense ???? eza mesh m3na enta 3ameel ??? aren't Lebanese supposed to be smart people ???? what u saying has nothing to do with smartness.
The world won't let Israel attack Lebanon for nothing,unless Hizbullah go and kidnap and kill soldiers on the other side of the border,that WON'T HAPPEN,didn't happen b4,give me one single incident,JUST ONE.
also,Hizbullah is not stoppiong israel from attacking Lebanon,,, do u have a short memory or what ??? 2006 ????

SO, YOU WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE, U NEED IT !!!!!!!!!1

Ramazzotti

May 31st, 2009, 03:33 PM

^^ if HZ didn't exist / provoque Israel and the palestinian didn't use South Leb as a military base in the 60-70s, Israel wouldn't have attacked Lebanon!
And IRAN isn't helping Lebanon it's helping Hezbollah ( Iran's proxy in lebanon )...

HerrParhom

May 31st, 2009, 03:33 PM

Uhm, hello. Who were the only people in your country willing to kick the Israelis out in 2000? Who funded them? Like I've said before, I don't like Iranian money going to this cause, but for people like you to criticize it is just ridiculous. Half of your country was willing to do the bidding for the Israelis WHILE they were here. The fact that most on this forum always say they want Lebanon to be free of Israeli intervention means you know that this is shameful, yet the fact that they blame Iran for most everything wrong in the country means they're willing-yet again-to echo what the Israelis say.

As for protection, yeah, I was referring to Syria. I know that Syrian presence in your country was a limiting factor to freedom, but what happened once they left? The attack of 2006, where they bombed MORE than just the South of your country. How quickly you seem to forget, also, that if the Syrians had never gotten involved, your war would've probably lasted past 1990. But of course, the people with your mentality think you're special, that you're better than Iran and all your neighbors; yet, you're willing to take a back seat to the interests of the West.

BTW, why would I be worried about the survival of "my" mullah regime? No one likes them; my point isn't that they're good people. My point isn't that they have Lebanon's best interests in mind. My point is mainly that you can't protect yourselves, and that you're being picky when you're not really in the position to do so. And sorry I'm not Lebanese, but I DO read, and I've always found yours to be a fascinating, so I can't help but be interested... I don't think that makes me unqualified to state my opinion.

hey maybe u need a history lesson, lebanon has probably had more occupiers in its history more than any other country and we managed to kick all of them out.
Spare us the israel scarecrow talk, and just like jordan and egypt are living in peace with israel we can do the same.

We don't need protection from anybody, and if i were you i d worry more right now about israel levelling your capital down.

So don't take this the wrong way, but if you re not lebanese please keep your nose out of our internal affairs and worry about the survival of your mullah regime and when iran wishes to help lebanon as a country instead of helping one side against the other then we ll think wether we need their help or not.

P.S. i hope you were not talking about syria when u were talking about the source of protection, let the syrians start by liberating their own occupied lands before offering protection to anybody

Ramazzotti

May 31st, 2009, 03:34 PM

HerrParhom

May 31st, 2009, 03:36 PM

The world won't let Israel attack Lebanon for nothing,unless Hizbullah go and kidnap and kill soldiers on the other side of the border,that WON'T HAPPEN,didn't happen b4,give me one single incident,JUST ONE.
also,Hizbullah is not stoppiong israel from attacking Lebanon,,, do u have a short memory or what ??? 2006 ????1

Why do you say this? The world-or anyone with a brain-knows that kidnapping ONE soldier is NOT an excuse for that kidn of excuse. The Israelis had been building up forces on the border for some time. They were WAITING for an excuse. The world let them do what they wanted. No one will stop Israel, among other reasons, because they don't care. HZ wouldn't exist if it weren't for what Israel did, anyway. You're in denial, but then again, I really can't blame you; it's a horrible situation.

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 03:37 PM

To the persian guys here ,Answer this Question .

Iran is helping Hizbullah for nothing ???????

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 03:38 PM

Why do you say this? The world-or anyone with a brain-knows that kidnapping ONE soldier is NOT an excuse for that kidn of excuse. The Israelis had been building up forces on the border for some time. They were WAITING for an excuse. The world let them do what they wanted. No one will stop Israel, among other reasons, because they don't care. HZ wouldn't exist if it weren't for what Israel did, anyway. You're in denial, but then again, I really can't blame you; it's a horrible situation.

it's not one soldier , two soldiers plus many others dead. that was first.
second , you can't deny if that didn't happen, israel wouldn't have attacked Lebanon. yes or no???

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 03:40 PM

Agsin Hizbullah is operating outside Lebanon.

Azerbaijan Accuses Hizbullah, Iran of Plotting Attack on Israeli Embassy

Azerbaijan has accused Hizbullah and Iran of planning to bomb the Israeli Embassy in the capital Baku to avenge the 2008 assassination of top military leader Imad Mughniyeh, the pan-Arab daily asharq al-Awsat reported Sunday.
The accusation coincided with the start of a closed-trial of four Lebanese and four Azeri nationals who were arrested last year on charges related to terrorism, espionage and other crimes, the paper said.

Authorities said the eight were arrested beginning of May 2008 after intercepting calls between "local armed men and two members of Hizbullah." They said police also arrested two suspected Hizbullah members following a car chase and confiscated explosives, binoculars, cameras and silencers.

The two men were identified as Ali Karaki "an expert in Hizbullah's overseas operations unit" and Ali Najmeldine who is described as "an expert in explosives."

According to investigations, the two Lebanese men arrived in Baku from Tehran at the beginning of 2008 using Iranian passports, according to asharq al-Awsat. They stayed in five star hotels and created a cell for the purpose of carrying out the embassy attack.

It said the cell "monitored the Israeli Embassy which is located in al-Hayat Tower complex next to the Thai and Japanese embassies. The plan was to set an explosion in the surveillance tower by radar. The suspects were also planning to "place three to four bomb-laden cars around the embassy. The bombs were to be set off by a timer."

According to anti-terrorism officials, top officials in the Iranian Revolutionary Guards appeared to be involved in the plan. Karaki said a Revolutionary Guard members under the name of Fadli was his source in Iran.

Beirut, 31 May 09, 09:37

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 03:41 PM

^^ and What's funy is ,

According to Ex general aoun,Wara2et el tafehoum included an agreement that hizbollah won t be carrying any activities outside the lebanese borders.

Aounists, WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 04:14 PM

Uhm, hello. Who were the only people in your country willing to kick the Israelis out in 2000? Who funded them? Like I've said before, I don't like Iranian money going to this cause, but for people like you to criticize it is just ridiculous. Half of your country was willing to do the bidding for the Israelis WHILE they were here. The fact that most on this forum always say they want Lebanon to be free of Israeli intervention means you know that this is shameful, yet the fact that they blame Iran for most everything wrong in the country means they're willing-yet again-to echo what the Israelis say.

Umm hello while half of the country was supposedly cheering for the israelis as you claim, the other half was and still is cheering for syria who was occupying the country.
For the last time as a foreigner, we are not interested in getting your lessons in patriotism and once you understand that the syrian occupation was as bad for lebanon as the israeli one, maybe then we can have a discussion.

As for protection, yeah, I was referring to Syria. I know that Syrian presence in your country was a limiting factor to freedom, but what happened once they left? The attack of 2006, where they bombed MORE than just the South of your country. How quickly you seem to forget, also, that if the Syrians had never gotten involved, your war would've probably lasted past 1990. But of course, the people with your mentality think you're special, that you're better than Iran and all your neighbors; yet, you're willing to take a back seat to the interests of the West.

It s sad that you allow yourself to come here and talk about things you know nothing of.

1) Syria played a major role in keeping the civil war going until 1990, first by fighting the palestineans and then by fighting with them. It took syria 65 yrs after lebanon's independence to agree to open embassies with lebanon.
Up to 67 on the other hand, lebanon was the country that had the least problems with israel until some lebanese allowed the palestineans to use the south as a point to attack israel from.

2) go read about the israeli invasion of 1982 and see how helpful syrian really was in stopping it. Syrian scums were really strong when they had to beat peaceful students demonstrating in beirut, yet they havent fired a single shot to liberate their land that has been occupied for 40 yrs. So let syria worry about protecting its own behind before trying to make us believe that their OCCUPATION of lebanon was for the good country.

BTW, why would I be worried about the survival of "my" mullah regime? No one likes them; my point isn't that they're good people. My point isn't that they have Lebanon's best interests in mind. My point is mainly that you can't protect yourselves, and that you're being picky when you're not really in the position to do so. And sorry I'm not Lebanese, but I DO read, and I've always found yours to be a fascinating, so I can't help but be interested... I don't think that makes me unqualified to state my opinion.

Your country has the interest of its shias militia in mind, and never had the interest of the country in mind. They fund projects in shiaa areas and finance the arming of HA. So let the mullah regime use this money to feed its own starving people and keep its dirty hands out of the lebanese political scene and both lebanon and iran would be much better off.

jader3283

May 31st, 2009, 04:50 PM

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 04:56 PM

^^^^
They have dirty hands b/c they are helping one side in lebanon against the other, let them send their help to the lebanese state and we wouldn't be here having this discussion.

Hassoun

May 31st, 2009, 05:02 PM

^^Lebneni. Wow. If someone helps shia neighborhoods does that make their hands dirty. Do you even know why they are helping shias. And you say i have short term memory loss. You say Iran is dirty because they are helping people who lost their homes, lost their family, lost everything, during the war. You are the dirty one.

U should be banned , u r insulting a forumer here, ma 2elak 7a2 , enta fetet be nawayah ??? 3am te7kom 3lih bala mat3ref chou 2sdo , yalla , haide meshkletkon. howwe 3amil kaman , ma haik ??? L3ama.

lebnani

May 31st, 2009, 05:08 PM

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 05:16 PM

guys! WALLA 3AYB 3ALAYKOUN!!!!!!!!! RAW2OUA!!! twasakhet!!! YOU KNOW WHERE THIS CONVO IS LEADING!

the problem is guys 2anno we don't look at the shia community in lebanon as the same as the christian, and the christian the same as the sunni and the sunni the same as the shii etc....and because we don't ..... neither does anyone else! This is why our country is easily divided because everyone can pick to side with one group in lebanon.

This bothers the shit out of me, if we want Iran to treat all the Lebanese the same....lets start by doing that ourselves.

Please when Alon was here i was the first one to defend HA, but for foreigners to come here and lecture us about who is a traitor and who is not and try to portray the syrian occupation as beneficial for lebanon, then that should be an insult to all lebanese shiaa, sunni or christian.

Let all foreigners wether Iran, Syria, Israel, the US, France,Saudi.... keep their nose out of our country and we will be just fine, b/c no matter what our differences are we have to live on the same piece of land.

but how can we blame the others since some lebanese are here defending Iran instead of defending their own country...

lebnani

May 31st, 2009, 05:19 PM

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 05:32 PM

THESE ARE NOT THE PROBLEMS....THOSE ARE THE SYMPTOMS OF THE PROBLEM.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT NO ONE RESPECTS ONE ANOTHER. Honestly be sara7a, I'm starting to believe that not one of lebanons "sects" wants the other in the same country and thats the problem. Ma fe e7teram between people that we are all lebanese. And because of that and other social/political situations different communities are isolated. But this all stems from the fact that we don't view that everyone is the same.

Everyone in lebanon is not the same, they have never been nor will they ever be and that s not something that means that lebanon is doomed.
Differences no matter how big they are can always be handled through a democatic system that takes into consideration everyone's fears and aspirations.
the ultimate goal should be the creation of a system where every lebanese no matter what his race, religion, political opinion... is treated the same.

However as long as a party is allowed to have weapons and use them to attack other lebanese when they are not happy with a political decision like in May 7th 07 then there is no hope to ever build this kind of system

What HA needs to understand is that as much as their weapons are helpful to protect their community as much as they make other communities fear them and despise them so at some point someone in HA is going to have to make a decision on what is more important, to keep the weapons and scare everyone else or give them up and join other lebanese in trying to build a truly democratic non-confensional state.

lebnani

May 31st, 2009, 05:47 PM

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 06:00 PM

Sorry but I don't understand how we are not the same! WHAT FUNDAMENTALLY MAKES ME DIFFERENT THAN SOMEONE ELSE FROM LEBANON. My religion, which I can change at the drop of a hat? some imaginary differences!

I'm not talking about differences, because I don't believe there are any real differences. I think it comes down to respect, I am not a Hezbollah follower, and I am not shii....but I consider their community as part of mine....because I choose to believe that there is a Lebanese community. Not a shii, or sunni one. Yes our religious practices are different but so what? we walk the same ground, that we have always walked on!!! No society is homogeneous! but we become to believe it is because its people believe Respect that everyone is the same.

We are not the same just like someone who lives in Montreal is not the same as someone who lives in Calgary, or someone who lives in California is not the same as someone who lives in Utah or Mississipi.

The difference is not only religious, it s also cultural, social, psychological, you live in Canada and should know what multiculturalism is all about and you shouldn't be scared of it.

There has never been a homogeneous or unique lebanese identity or community and that is not bad, if canada can manage to strive with communities coming from over 150 countries than lebanon could also do it.

Tell me how much a person from Achrafieh have in common with someone from let's say nabatieh? but that is not necessarily bad nor should it mean that we can t live together. Our differences is what makes lebanon the kind of wonderful place it is. We should all agree once and for all not to let foreigners use some of us against the others and we ll manage just fine on our own.

jader3283

May 31st, 2009, 06:12 PM

lebnani

May 31st, 2009, 06:20 PM

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 06:27 PM

^^ You are speaking true, but in the comments you post on this forum, you are not williing to view both sides of the problem. You always view hz as a group devoted to endanger the lebanese people. As cleary shown on your comment above, you are not even willing to respect all culturals, and religions.

care to show me where i said anything disrespectful about any religion or cultures?

As for HA, well they have to choose to either be a resistance group, or a political group. but being a politial group with weapons in a democracy is not acceptable..

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 06:46 PM

lol Lebneni..... we are not talking about people in different areas!!! I'm talking about neighbors.

I live in a multicultural society yes...where the difference between me and my neighbour, is cultural, religious, ethnic, linguistic, social, psychological. I come from lebanon, my neighbor comes from india.

In lebanon....we all speak the same language, we are all bound by the same traditions, systems, language, food, culture. I'm not scared of it ( side not: where did that come from) ....but being shii is not a culture, being sunni is not a culture...these aren't cultures we are talking about, and at the end of the day, it isn't the religion that is dividing its the politics that rest on the religion....the politics that give religion and thus....difference.....importance....THATS THE PROBLEM

Saying the differences in Lebanon is only a matter of religion is way too simplistic, it s not only a matter of religion. i gave you the example of a white canadian living in Montreal and a white canadian living in calgary, it has nothing to do with coming from India or lebanon.
The people of Lebanon share the same language and food but that s about it, the traditions, systems and cultures are not the same and the divide is not exactly along the religious lines being sunni or shiaa or christian is not a culture, but unfortunately people in lebanon have been living in enclaves for so long that their culture and traditions are no longer the same. This is a fact

What I am arguing lebneni is this............

Communities are imagined....there is nothing that separates me from the person of the other sect across the hall. A community is based fundamentally on the idea of us and them.... You are telling me my family that has lived in Beirut for GENERATIONS! is different than my neighbors who have lived the same exact time, who have ate the same food, spoken the same language, went through the same wars..... (keep in mind I also acknowledge that the idea of a Lebanese community is imagined....but since this is all a construction, I'd rather construct a national community than a community based on a sect)

Really we are saying the same thing at the end of the day.....Religion and politics do not mix....sectarianism is tied and married to confessional ism....and that is the first thing that needs to go.

The difference is....I've already eliminated it from my vocabulary....when will you do the same in yours? (this goes for everyone as well)

Umm u re jumping to conclusions a bit too fast here, i m saying that a lebanon can be a melting pot of different people who despite their differences agree to live together in the same country, the differences are there and are visible to everyone, ignoring them and acting as if all lebanese are the same is what put us in this mess in the first place.
We have tried for 65 yrs to ignore these differences and look how well that turned out to work, so it is time to try a different approach to solving this.
I m not saying i have the perfect answer but i also highly doubt that the answer you have will work.

HerrParhom

May 31st, 2009, 06:56 PM

To the persian guys here ,Answer this Question .

Iran is helping Hizbullah for nothing ???????

I think I'm the only Iranian person who posts here and anyway, I'm mostly American.

No, I don't think Iran is helping Hezbollah for NOTHING, but then again, no one helps anyone for nothing. The silly thing is that there's nothing in Lebanon for Iran, but then again, Israel is so busy bullying both Iran and Lebanon, they have a common interest in making sure that if Israel attacks either of the country that it won't be free of cost. I think it's sad that Lebanon has been used as a battleground and continues to be, but of course, I have to wonder why Hz can be expected to completely give up arms in a country that refuses to defend the territory it resides in. Hz is more than a militia, it's a political party that represents the Shia, a group of people that's been ignored and disenfranchised. No one else in Lebanon who holds power gives a rat's ass what happens in the South of the country. So it's sad that it had to be Iran's fundamentalist regime that gave this portion of your population any power, but that's how it happened. And it's sad that it took Israel bulldozing the south of your country on and off since the early '70s to get them upset enough to organize, but I guess that's how it happened, didn't it? Also, it's sad that the people on this forum who support March 14th, are more concerned with being wealthy and Westernized than helping their fellow compatriots.

You say that Hz should join the gov't legitimately and integrate with the Lebanese army. Why would they join a gov't whose president must ALWAYS be a Christian? Why would they join a gov't who sides with the US, who is giving away bombs to Israel for free which they use, in turn, to attack the South of your country.

HONESTLY, after 40 years of being attacked, why should Hz give up its weapons based on the lie that Israel will leave them alone if they disarm? Even if that ISN'T a lie, how can't that be hard to believe?

You can make fun of my for being Iranian (barely) and sticking my nose into this, but how can't I care? Either way, as an American, my tax dollars go into bombing your country, as if you consider me an Iranian, I'm annoyed that my relatives' money is going to Hezbollah when it would be better spent in other ways.

What's especially interesting to me is that all the people in this forum keep saying that confessionalism needs to end, that all Lebanese need to respect another, that they want all their territory back, but then they don't want anything to change. It's the same problem that's been plaguing the country for ever: you have people who've been favored by the West and western-backed states, like Israel, Jordan or Saudi Arabia against people who simply want their fair share. The more you deny people of their fair share, the more babies they will have and the poorer they will become and the more they will arm themselves. Do you want to be rich or do you want a democracy?

HerrParhom

May 31st, 2009, 06:57 PM

I hope we can continue this discussion without insulting each other. I personally learn a good deal from it and if these discussions can't happen easily in person, then they should at least happen online.

Ramazzotti

May 31st, 2009, 06:58 PM

^^ plz 7ada ysakto !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jader3283

May 31st, 2009, 07:06 PM

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

You said what i was struggling to say.

And you made my day.

Thank You!!!!!!!!!:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):cheers::cheers::):)

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 07:09 PM

It's the same problem that's been plaguing the country for ever: you have people who've been favored by the West and western-backed states, like Israel, Jordan or Saudi Arabia against people who simply want their fair share. The more you deny people of their fair share, the more babies they will have and the poorer they will become and the more they will arm themselves. Do you want to be rich or do you want a democracy?

WHAT A JOKE...

so one side is being backed by the west and western-backed states while the others are sitting back and watching the show?
For the last time, please i don t like being rude to people but either understand what u re talking about or stop posting in this thread when you are either completely ignorant of anything about lebanon or just take the lebanese for idiots.

þopsï

May 31st, 2009, 07:21 PM

:lurker:

The only two things making these elections fun and appealing, billboards and media campaigns :D

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08VHfWe33wd0w/610x.jpg
Electoral billboards of Armenian parliamentary candidates are seen behind a billboard of a lingerie advertisement in Beirut May 28, 2009

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03OWccbdTMdCG/610x.jpg
Lebanese men ride their motorbikes past electoral billboards of the Free patriotic Movement

þopsï

May 31st, 2009, 07:23 PM

http://www.plus961.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/joumhouriyyeh-teilteh.jpg
V/S
http://www.plus961.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/joumhouriyyeh-teilteh-lf.jpg

þopsï

May 31st, 2009, 07:26 PM

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/88045023.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19356863F2C054EB266ED88FCF1F0705D97284831B75F48EF45

http://i42.tinypic.com/2uthwr8.jpg

þopsï

May 31st, 2009, 07:29 PM

http://www.tayyar.org/tayyar/storage/Gallery/Lebanon/Elections/Parl12/Parliamentary%20E/Achrafieh%20not%20for%20sale/Media35.JPG

http://www.plus961.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/carlos-edde.jpg

þopsï

May 31st, 2009, 07:31 PM

http://www.plus961.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/soit-egale-et-vote.jpg
V/S
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0e8l7uldjzdyg/610x.jpg

þopsï

May 31st, 2009, 07:33 PM

http://qifanabki.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/fm-newschool2.jpg?w=224&h=168

http://www.plus961.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/i-think-there14-i-am.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3253/img4764k.jpg

HerrParhom

May 31st, 2009, 08:05 PM

WHAT A JOKE...

so one side is being backed by the west and western-backed states while the others are sitting back and watching the show?
For the last time, please i don t like being rude to people but either understand what u re talking about or stop posting in this thread when you are either completely ignorant of anything about lebanon or just take the lebanese for idiots.

If I am ignorant, okay; teach me what I don't know.

Is anyone on this forum a March 8 supporter? I've been hearing mainly from March 14 and I'd like to know what March 8ers think, since I feel like I'm the only one here who isn't dismissing the argument as "Iran did this and Syrians are barbarians," etc etc. Certainly, foreign countries have a role in what's happening. I NEVER hear this debate discussed in terms of what each opposing side is promising/complaining about on a domestic level.

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 08:33 PM

If I am ignorant, okay; teach me what I don't know.

Is anyone on this forum a March 8 supporter? I've been hearing mainly from March 14 and I'd like to know what March 8ers think, since I feel like I'm the only one here who isn't dismissing the argument as "Iran did this and Syrians are barbarians," etc etc. Certainly, foreign countries have a role in what's happening. I NEVER hear this debate discussed in terms of what each opposing side is promising/complaining about on a domestic level.

Ok let me give you a quick review of what happened in the past 100 yrs and its applies for the whole history of the count

- When Lebnon was occupied by the ottomans, what was known as lebanon then mainly today`s mount lebanon had christians and druze and both didn t want to be ruled by the ottomans, so the druze sought english help and the christians sought french help to get rid of the ottomans, it s around this time that the first major religious massacres happened in lebanon around 1860.

- After the defeat of the ottoman empire in the first world war, France took over control of the country and what was known as greater lebanon ( the country with its current boundaries was created) adding the cities of tripoli and saida as well as the south, and the bekaa (shiaa area) to historic lebanon. Since that day syria considered lebanon as a renegade province that should be returned to greater syrian. The christians and mainly maronites didnt want to be in a country ruled by a muslim majority so lebanon with its current boundaries came into existence

- 1943 lebanon got its independence when christians and muslims came together to ask for it, and what is called the national pact ( separating powers between christians and muslims along the 6/5 formula.. 6 christinas for every 5 muslims) came into existence.

- since the independence the demographic balance had shifted towards muslims but the christians didn t want to share power with the muslims so tensions started in the country.

-1958 first mini civil war b/c lebanese Muslims pushed the government to join the newly created United Arab Republic, while the Christians wanted to keep Lebanon aligned with Western Powers.

- after the plo was kicked out of jordan they came to leb where the muslims wanted to allow them to fight israel from leb and christians didn t. in 1969 the cairo agreement which was the worst mistake in the history of lebanon was signed allowing the PLO to do whatever it pleases in the south and the shiaa are the ones that suffered the most from it.

- 1975 the muslims led by kamal jumblatt sought to use the presence of the plo to finally get their fair share in the country and the christians wanted to get rid of the palestineans so the civil war started.

- 1976 syria invaded lebanon to supposedly help the christians but when these saw that the goal of damascus was to take control of the country they started fighting it. so syrian started helping the muslims against the christians who then asked for israeli help.

-1982 the israeli invasion which the shiaa welcomed with rice and flowers btw as they had suffered the most from the actions of the PLO and syria ran away like cowards in front of the israelis. Around that time, HA an organization created from zero by the iranians came into existence.

- 1990 taef accord that ended the war by handing over the country to the syrians who exiled or jailed all the christian leaders who were opposing it.

- 2000 israel withdraws from lebanon, and HA were seen as heroes by everyone and people start asking syrian to do the same.

- 2005 assassination of harriri, and the split into the march 14th and march 8th camps

i jumped a lot of events but as you can see lebanese from all sides wether sunni, shiaa, druze or christians sought help of foreign countries to fight other lebanese for the past hundreds of years, they all colaborated with foreigners against other lebanese.

so there is no nor there has ever been a black and white good side and bad side in leb as everyone tried to screw everyone else, yet some people still come here to tell you that there are no differences in lebanon and all lebanese love each other... :nuts::ohno::nuts:

HerrParhom

May 31st, 2009, 08:38 PM

DingoBingo

May 31st, 2009, 08:38 PM

HerrParhom, please stay out of this forum. Can't u see these people don't even have any respect for themselves? How do u expect them to respect anyone else?

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 08:43 PM

HerrParhom, please stay out of this forum. Can't u see these people don't even have any respect for themselves? How do u expect them to respect anyone else?

hey dingobingo or shayan or whatever u wanna call urself why don t u take a hike instead of just popping out once in a while to stir ****
and go post some pictures of the iranian royal family or something :bash:

Lebneni

May 31st, 2009, 08:47 PM

I knew all of this already. What I'd like to know, though, is why Aoun is now pro-Syrian. There's no logical explanation; he was the most anti-Syrian before and had to leave Lebanon and once the Syrians leave, he returns and is part of March 8??

lol in a few words, aoun loves power he tried to become president in 89-90 and that didnt work and he thought that by allying with HA he would become president which also blew up in his face so now his main goal is to beat the site that he considers to block his aspirations in the elections.

There are a lot of mistakes done by both side to get to this point, but really when u wanna come and patricipate in a political discussion in a country like lebanon, you should do your own research before. i don t even think most lebanese understand what goes on in the head of this country`s politicians

HerrParhom

May 31st, 2009, 10:00 PM

lol in a few words, aoun loves power he tried to become president in 89-90 and that didnt work and he thought that by allying with HA he would become president which also blew up in his face so now his main goal is to beat the site that he considers to block his aspirations in the elections.

There are a lot of mistakes done by both side to get to this point, but really when u wanna come and patricipate in a political discussion in a country like lebanon, you should do your own research before. i don t even think most lebanese understand what goes on in the head of this country`s politicians

Isn't he still allied with Hz as part of March 8th?

melkart

May 31st, 2009, 10:17 PM

Isn't he still allied with Hz as part of March 8th?

when he returned from France after the syrian pullout in 2005 he tried to be an ally with the curent government that was in place at the time. they kind of snubbed him so he made an alliance with Hisb instead as a payback and changed his agenda. But what boggles my mind is that he sold all his ideals in exchange for power, and all his followers are willing to jump over the bridge along with him.

HerrParhom

May 31st, 2009, 11:16 PM

when he returned from France after the syrian pullout in 2005 he tried to be an ally with the curent government that was in place at the time. they kind of snubbed him so he made an alliance with Hisb instead as a payback and changed his agenda. But what boggles my mind is that he sold all his ideals in exchange for power, and all his followers are willing to jump over the bridge along with him.

It is surprising, isn't it? He was the most virulently anti-Syrian and now, well... I guess not.

Who comprises his power base? What's he all about? I mean, I know I'll be told he's power hungry, etc, etc, and I can't say that form what I've learned that I disagree, but what's he SAY he stands for? Especially after his about face over the past three years?

melkart

June 1st, 2009, 12:14 AM

It is surprising, isn't it? He was the most virulently anti-Syrian and now, well... I guess not.

Who comprises his power base? What's he all about? I mean, I know I'll be told he's power hungry, etc, etc, and I can't say that form what I've learned that I disagree, but what's he SAY he stands for? Especially after his about face over the past three years?

well basicly he stands for change and reform, but he hasn't exactly said what he will be changing. Also he has backed hisballah and his allies in terms of what there gonna do. they did mention however that they will end corruption, not exactly sure how and what type of coruption they will supposedly end.

Funny thing is we know what needs to change. and it is so easy to implement those changes. like fixing the economy, reducing our national debt, subsidizing the agricultural sector, encourage IT development, privatize the electricity problem, etc. Those things are easy to deal with, but no one has actually proposed a solution. and if they dare to propose such a solution it gets vetoed, so the other side looks bad. the truth is no one gives a damn about change and reform. It's been the same game our politicians only care about power and there own sectarian issues. Very few are willing to work for the benefit of the whole country.

DingoBingo

June 1st, 2009, 12:53 AM

YES plzz ask Iran to stop funding and arming HEzbolla, The lebanese ppl ( maybe not the HZ supporters) would grateful to u !!

How about u ask ur shitty Hezbollah not to beg for our help and stop crying like a baby!

DingoBingo

June 1st, 2009, 12:56 AM

hey dingobingo or shayan or whatever u wanna call urself why don t u take a hike instead of just popping out once in a while to stir ****
and go post some pictures of the iranian royal family or something :bash:

Anyone who comes to this forum to discuss lebanese issues with u guys is being criticized and asked to mind his own business. I was just suggesting him not to waste his breath!

Beiruti

June 1st, 2009, 01:46 AM

I knew all of this already. What I'd like to know, though, is why Aoun is now pro-Syrian. There's no logical explanation; he was the most anti-Syrian before and had to leave Lebanon and once the Syrians leave, he returns and is part of March 8??

I know exactly why. Aoun was one of the main reasons why UNSCR 1559 (which called for Syrian withdrawl) came into being. He came to the U.S. and testified before Congress, etc. strongly pushing for 1559. He practically wrote it himself. 1559 was passed and set in motion a series of events in Lebanon, starting with Lahoud's extension, assassination attempt on Marwan Hamede, etc. and of course Hariri's assassination. Then came the Cedar Revolution, which the FPM was a part of. A large portion of the people that gathered on March 14, 2005 were Aoun's people. He was still exiled however and proudly watched from abroad.

He later returned to Lebanon to find that Saad Hariri, Jumblatt, and his long-time arch rival Geagea were extremely popular and taking credit for the Cedar Revolution. He was extremely jealous about this and stated publically many times (back then) that HE, not Hariri, should be given credit for kicking Syria out.

So rather than joining them in an electoral alliance (which would naturally make sense) he saw that doing that would leave him politically weak and second to the main March 14 leaders. He also knew that he stood no chance at being elected President - which has been his life-long obsession. By pulling away from March14 he repositioned himself with political clout and allied with HA to gain votes. Basically, he would have had a weak voice if he stayed with March14, and he chose power over his beliefs.

HerrParhom

June 1st, 2009, 04:09 AM

Lebneni

June 1st, 2009, 04:15 AM

So now that Aoun has publicly and fundamentally contradicted his stance, what's his official line? What argument do Aounists use for their support of FPM? And how have they reconciled with Hz when, from what I'd imagine, their ideologies aren't compatible?

i don t know what u re really after, but let me tell you this, if aounists have no principles and are willing to do an 180 deg turn just b/c their leader did it, not all lebanese will do the same.

i don t think anyone hates HA b/c they re shiaa, a lot of people disagree with HA b c of the role religion plays in their platform, we don t want to be ruled by a religious party and even more people disagree with HA b/c of the weapons.

it s really very easy a poliitical party in a democracy should not have weapons and be able to sway events with the threats of these weapons.

I think u re smarter than what u re trying to say, so if you have a point to prove, pls state directly and stop wasting our time and yours with these little supposedly innocent questions

HerrParhom

June 1st, 2009, 04:37 AM

melkart

June 1st, 2009, 04:40 AM

I know exactly why. Aoun was one of the main reasons why UNSCR 1559 (which called for Syrian withdrawl) came into being. He came to the U.S. and testified before Congress, etc. strongly pushing for 1559. He practically wrote it himself. 1559 was passed and set in motion a series of events in Lebanon, starting with Lahoud's extension, assassination attempt on Marwan Hamede, etc. and of course Hariri's assassination. Then came the Cedar Revolution, which the FPM was a part of. A large portion of the people that gathered on March 14, 2005 were Aoun's people. He was still exiled however and proudly watched from abroad.

He later returned to Lebanon to find that Saad Hariri, Jumblatt, and his long-time arch rival Geagea were extremely popular and taking credit for the Cedar Revolution. He was extremely jealous about this and stated publically many times (back then) that HE, not Hariri, should be given credit for kicking Syria out.

So rather than joining them in an electoral alliance (which would naturally make sense) he saw that doing that would leave him politically weak and second to the main March 14 leaders. He also knew that he stood no chance at being elected President - which has been his life-long obsession. By pulling away from March14 he repositioned himself with political clout and allied with HA to gain votes. Basically, he would have had a weak voice if he stayed with March14, and he chose power over his beliefs.

Thank you I couldn't have explained this better myself!

Lebneni

June 1st, 2009, 04:48 AM

Your defensiveness is really without purpose. I don't live in Lebanon, cannot read Arabic, etc... I don't know what the story with Aoun is, beyond the fact that he really screwed up between '88 and '90, that he was virulently anti-Syrian at that time and now has switched sides (which you explained). I don't know how he sells that idea to his supporters when, after at least 15 years of being anti-Syrian he suddenly switched; it seems like a tough sell.

another miracle of lebanese politics, most politicians have followers that when told to jump will simply ask how high.

Also, I think that ppl don't like Hz/Shia because they're seen as poor and backward. Your stance is that no political party should have a militia, but then... how did such people as Geagea and Jumblatt acquire their power? The only difference is that they were accepted into the gov't at the end of the war, and Hz wasn't in the same position 19 years ago.

so now people don t like shiaa b/c they are poor, can this self-victimization get any lower?? PSP and geagea gave their heavy weapons to the army at the end of the war like every other militia. HA has to make a choice to stay a resistance under the command of the army or become a political party like all the rest.

What's the story with the current gov't under Sleiman? Didn't he assume the presidency after Hz paralyzed the country in 2008? What's Hz's current position within/without the gov't?

HA and its allies managed to get a third plus one of the gvt after a military invasion of the capital of their own country thus making the last mask about their weapons not being used internally fall making it just more clear that they need to give up their weapons right away after they turned into a militia of thugs and nothing more.

melkart

June 1st, 2009, 04:49 AM

Your defensiveness is really without purpose. I don't live in Lebanon, cannot read Arabic, etc... I don't know what the story with Aoun is, beyond the fact that he really screwed up between '88 and '90, that he was virulently anti-Syrian at that time and now has switched sides (which you explained). I don't know how he sells that idea to his supporters when, after at least 15 years of being anti-Syrian he suddenly switched; it seems like a tough sell.

Also, I think that ppl don't like Hz/Shia because they're seen as poor and backward. Your stance is that no political party should have a militia, but then... how did such people as Geagea and Jumblatt acquire their power? The only difference is that they were accepted into the gov't at the end of the war, and Hz wasn't in the same position 19 years ago.

What's the story with the current gov't under Sleiman? Didn't he assume the presidency after Hz paralyzed the country in 2008? What's Hz's current position within/without the gov't?

During the Taif accord all militias disarmed except for Hisballah, which Syria insisted should keep their arms to defend the south. The shiites were actually in a better position to negotiate, cause the christian militias were pretty much weakened and had exhausted themselves. Syria was in charge!
after the assasination of Rafic al Hariri everything changed. Syria was out and Lebanon split into two. yes the shiites might be the poorest, but they have come along way. not because of Hizballah, but because many of the shia have gone to school, emigrated, invested abroad, etc.

Jayme

June 1st, 2009, 04:57 AM

Aoun gets crazyer each time he is in the news.....

Aoun: Israel will not attack Lebanon unless March 14 alliance is in power

FPM leader MP Michel Aoun said in a political rally in on Sunday Batroun that a March 14 alliance victory in the elections will precipitate an Israeli attack. “Israel will not attack Lebanon under any circumstance unless the current majority is ruling the country,” he said.

He said that March 14 alliance Christian parties are using the “cross as a product. They stroke it, and make it a slogan.”

He asserted that the March 14 alliance is using fear-tactics, including spreading the claim “that the Persians are going to attack us.” Aoun also criticized the majority for fearing the Resistance, even though it “has not killed anyone in Lebanon.”

“They try to scare you that if the opposition wins the elections, then the economic support from the US and Europe will stop. I remind them that there is China,” he said.

Aoun spoke against sectarianism, saying, “We will become one category. We will only become the Lebanese people. Our policy is based on dialogue and understanding, and we will win in the end. We will control all the country.”

Aoun expressed his confidence for an opposition electoral success in Batroun. “Our battle is to obtain the parliamentary majority in Lebanon, and we are expecting two seats in the Batroun district,” he said. Aoun also said he does not want “to hear anyone say that Batroun is for Hariri.”

“Those who controlled Batroun’s Parliamentary representation for the past ten years have dried up, and those who are with them today are incapable,” he added.

“We cannot accept whimsical people who are sometimes with the Taif Accord, and sometimes against it,” Aoun concluded.

Jayme

June 1st, 2009, 04:58 AM

Israel will have the IDF ready to attack if March 8 wins the elections.

melkart

June 1st, 2009, 05:02 AM

Jayme

June 1st, 2009, 05:04 AM

Its to bad people some people can just follow and LOVE and SUPPORT what ever there leaders do and TRY to prove that he is doing the right things.

DingoBingo

June 1st, 2009, 05:13 AM

Israel will have the IDF ready to attack if March 8 wins the elections.

Why is that?

HerrParhom

June 1st, 2009, 05:16 AM

Israel will have the IDF ready to attack if March 8 wins the elections.

I hope not...

Jayme

June 1st, 2009, 05:47 AM

melkart

June 1st, 2009, 06:15 AM

Israel is shiting them selves if Hezbollah wins majority in the elections.. akid they will go in panic mode. I dont see how they will attack if March 14 win the elections... unless if hezbollah do something like in 2006. israel is allready scaring there own people that lebanon will become like Iran.

Israel will attack only if provoked. They're not willing to launch another war without a cause or reason. otherwise not only will they be scrutinized by the international community if they attacked, but it doesn't serve them any good.

alisaleh

June 1st, 2009, 04:18 PM

melkart

June 1st, 2009, 04:31 PM

^^ :fiddle:

Lebneni

June 1st, 2009, 05:08 PM

^^:hilarious

Guy

June 1st, 2009, 10:25 PM

Israel will attack only if provoked. They're not willing to launch another war without a cause or reason. otherwise not only will they be scrutinized by the international community if they attacked, but it doesn't serve them any good.

Maybe not a war but they have proven to be willing to strike any country at any time without fear of repercussion. In the past couple of years, they attacked Sudan and Syria without being provoked and in the past, they violated the sovereignty and attacked targets in Argentina, Iraq, Egypt, Germany, Italy, Norway, Iran, Morocco, Tunisia, Malta, Jordan, and New Zealand. These countries haven't provoked Israel since 1967 (if at all) so its not only attacking in case of being provoked but rather on when it "feels" threatened. A neighboring country that makes its military decisions on its "feelings" is not a country that I think cares about what the international community thinks. There can always be a cause or a reason to go to war but Israels reasons doesn't follow international law or diplomatic norms. That's what makes it so dangerous and a thorn in the side of many Arab states.

melkart

June 1st, 2009, 10:35 PM

Maybe not a war but they have proven to be willing to strike any country at any time without fear of repercussion. In the past couple of years, they attacked Sudan and Syria without being provoked and in the past, they violated the sovereignty and attacked targets in Argentina, Iraq, Egypt, Germany, Italy, Norway, Iran, Morocco, Tunisia, Malta, Jordan, and New Zealand. These countries haven't provoked Israel since 1967 (if at all) so its not only attacking in case of being provoked but rather on when it "feels" threatened. A neighboring country that makes its military decisions on its "feelings" is not a country that I think cares about what the international community thinks. There can always be a cause or a reason to go to war but Israels reasons doesn't follow international law or diplomatic norms. That's what makes it so dangerous and a thorn in the side of many Arab states.

ur overeacting! they attacked a nuclear power plant in Syria, a nuclear power plant in Iraq, and a shipment of Iranian weapons in Sudan. The Iranians have publicly called out for the destruction of the state of Israel. They are simply taking their threats seriously. I don't hear Argentina or anyone else making a big fuss about Israel! I don't think they are dangerous. as matter of fact we can benefit greatly from Israel. The same can be said about arab countries attacking Israel unprovoked 1948, 1968, 1973 for example.

Lebanese Cedar

June 1st, 2009, 10:48 PM

ur overeacting! they attacked a nuclear power plant in Syria, a nuclear power plant in Iraq, and a shipment of Iranian weapons in Sudan.

You're right, unprovokingly bombing another nation is nothing to be critical about... :ohno:

The Iranians have publicly called out for the destruction of the state of Israel.

And the Israelis have not only called for the destruction of Palestinian societies, they've actually acted on their word.

And we in Lebanon have been paying for this for 60 years.

I don't think they are dangerous.

You have such short term and selective memory...

as matter of fact we can benefit greatly from Israel.

You keep flip flopping.

Earlier you praised the people who spy for Israel in Lebanon hoping they multiply, then you change your stance and said you don't like Israel and support the arrest of their spies, and now you are saying we can greatly benefit from them...

melkart

June 1st, 2009, 11:10 PM

You're right, unprovokingly bombing another nation is nothing to be critical about... :ohno:

And the Israelis have not only called for the destruction of Palestinian societies, they've actually acted on their word.

And we in Lebanon have been paying for this for 60 years.

You have such short term and selective memory...

You keep flip flopping.

Earlier you praised the people who spy for Israel in Lebanon hoping they multiply, then you change your stance and said you don't like Israel and support the arrest of their spies, and now you are saying we can greatly benefit from them...

I am sorry what is your point again? I might be critical of Israel, but my thoughts have been very clear. Hisballah and rogue nations like Iran and Syria are causing instability, injustice, snd not to mention a burden on the Lebanese state. Israel so far attacked when provoked or threatened. so Lebanese Cedar I don't know what you're getting at. all the quotes u have pasted don't really say much except that I have defended Israel against iran. and let me make myself clear, under no circumstance would I undermine the Lebanese state, however in all honesty I think arresting those spies is only empowering hisballah and their allies. I didn't retract my statements I simply changed my tone, cause I don't think anyone should be above the law, so in that sense I support their arrests, but I think it will have negative consequences.

Guy

June 1st, 2009, 11:26 PM

ur overeacting! they attacked a nuclear power plant in Syria, a nuclear power plant in Iraq, and a shipment of Iranian weapons in Sudan. The Iranians have publicly called out for the destruction of the state of Israel. They are simply taking their threats seriously. I don't hear Argentina or anyone else making a big fuss about Israel! I don't think they are dangerous. as matter of fact we can benefit greatly from Israel.

Its not overreacting. These are gross violations of International law. Israel hasn't only talked about destroying Lebanon, they have done it over and over again. They destroyed Gaza because of Hamas and are eating away at the relatively peaceful West Bank by claiming "natural growth."

Ahmedinijads exact words were "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad" which apparently means "Imam (Khomeni) said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from from page of time." But for verification, perhaps our Persian forumers can translate for us.

Are the Arabs not supposed to take Israels threats seriously and not make a big fuss? Nobody has damaged Israel like Israel has damaged others. Imagine if Syria or Iran was to kill Israelis they suspected of being IDF soldiers or Mossad in Europe. Imagine if they stole nuclear yellow cake from Germany and bombed Israeli ships that they suspected of carrying weapons and attacked the nuclear reactors in Israel and conducted air raids on pro Zionist headquarters across the hemisphere. Israel has done all of this to Arabs and non Arabs alike and you don't consider them dangerous?

All countries have made "big fusses" over their sovereignty being infringed upon by Israel to varying degrees. Go and read the articles or watch news reports about Israels violations of these countries.

melkart

June 1st, 2009, 11:28 PM

Its not overreacting. These are gross violations of International law. Israel hasn't only talked about destroying Lebanon, they have done it over and over again. They destroyed Gaza because of Hamas and are eating away at the relatively peaceful West Bank by claiming "natural growth."

Ahmedinijads exact words were "Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad" which apparently means "Imam (Khomeni) said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from from page of time." But for verification, perhaps our Persian forumers can translate for us.

Are the Arabs not supposed to take Israels threats seriously and not make a big fuss? Nobody has damaged Israel like Israel has damaged others. Imagine if Syria or Iran was to kill Israelis they suspected of being IDF soldiers or Mossad in Europe. Imagine if they stole nuclear yellow cake from Germany and bombed Israeli ships that they suspected of carrying weapons and attacked the nuclear reactors in Israel and conducted air raids on pro Zionist headquarters across the hemisphere. Israel has done all of this to Arabs and non Arabs alike and you don't consider them dangerous?

All countries have made "big fusses" over their sovereignty being infringed upon by Israel to varying degrees. Go and read the articles or watch news reports about Israels violations of these countries.

Iran is my biggest threat :) i never said that israel was the only victim here. nor did i say that i back israel 100%. but they do have a right to exist.

Guy

June 1st, 2009, 11:39 PM

Iran is my biggest threat :) i never said that israel was the only victim here. nor did i say that i back israel 100%. but they do have a right to exist.

We're not talking about their right to exist or not. We're saying they're dangerous. They've cause more death, injuries, and destruction than Iran so why do you think Iran is a bigger threat? Iran has actually helped build Lebanon's infrastructure while Israel has done nothing but destroyed Lebanese infrastructure and the livelihoods of many Southerners.

Guy

June 1st, 2009, 11:56 PM

I might be critical of Israel, but my thoughts have been very clear. Hisballah and rogue nations like Iran and Syria are causing instability, injustice, snd not to mention a burden on the Lebanese state. Israel so far attacked when provoked or threatened.
:lol: You think Israel isn't causing instability, injustice, and a burden to the Lebanese state? Have you ever lived in Lebanon for any appreciative amount time? I've been here since 2005 and during that time, Israel has openly caused a lot more trouble than Syria, Iran, and HA combined! The war in 2006 makes May 7th look like kids playing cops and robbers. Israel hasn't been threatened or provoked by Syria or Sudan since 1967. Is that why they're attacked these respective countries in 2007 and 2009?

melkart

June 1st, 2009, 11:59 PM

We're not talking about their right to exist or not. We're saying they're dangerous. They've cause more death, injuries, and destruction than Iran so why do you think Iran is a bigger threat? Iran has actually helped build Lebanon's infrastructure while Israel has done nothing but destroyed Lebanese infrastructure and the livelihoods of many Southerners.

guy the only reason why israel even bothered with Lebanon is cause of militants launching attacks against Israel. The israelis have never attacked Lebanon without cause or reason. Iran should look into taking care of their own people first before helping us. besides Iran's genorosity is aimed at trying to pursuade the Lebanese to side with them. sides i will not support any organisation (ie: Hisballah) that publicly professes to turn Lebanon into an islamic state.

melkart

June 2nd, 2009, 12:03 AM

:lol: You think Israel isn't causing instability, injustice, and a burden to the Lebanese state? Have you ever lived in Lebanon for any appreciative amount time? I've been here since 2005 and during that time, Israel has openly caused a lot more trouble than Syria, Iran, and HA combined! The war in 2006 makes May 7th look like kids playing cops and robbers. Israel hasn't been threatened or provoked by Syria or Sudan since 1967. Is that why they're attacked these respective countries in 2007 and 2009?

I lived in Lebanon for 12 years! anyway enough with the cheap shots let's stay on topic. may 7th was a window into what these undemocratic thugs are willing to do in order to get their way. it was lebanese aiming their weapons against their fellow Lebanese. this was no game to b taken lightly. just cause israel came down hard on Hisballah that doesn't make them trouble makers. Hisballah started that war. and they paid the price with their own blood.

Guy

June 2nd, 2009, 12:24 AM

guy the only reason why israel even bothered with Lebanon is cause of militants launching attacks against Israel. The israelis have never attacked Lebanon without cause or reason. Iran should look into taking care of their own people first before helping us. besides Iran's genorosity is aimed at trying to pursuade the Lebanese to side with them. sides i will not support any organisation (ie: Hisballah) that publicly professes to turn Lebanon into an islamic state.

and the State of Lebanon hasn't attacked Israel in decades but its military bases, bridges, airports, seaports, and power plants/refineries, were all attacked.

Aid trying to persuade the Lebanese could be said about Saudi Arabia's (which is much more oppressive and fanatical than Iran) and America's aid to Lebanon. They aid Lebanon even though they also have major problems at home.

During the civil war HA dreamed of transforming Lebanon's multi-confessional state into an Iranian-style Islamic state and this idea has been largely abandoned today. I personally know several Christian, agnostic, and atheist supporters of HA. I'm starting to think you haven't lived in Lebanon. As I said, they will always have a reason to attack anyone but their reasons are simply nonsense and against International Law.

Guy

June 2nd, 2009, 12:44 AM

I lived in Lebanon for 12 years! anyway enough with the cheap shots let's stay on topic. may 7th was a window into what these undemocratic thugs are willing to do in order to get their way. it was lebanese aiming their weapons against their fellow Lebanese. this was no game to b taken lightly. just cause israel came down hard on Hisballah that doesn't make them trouble makers. Hisballah started that war. and they paid the price with their own blood.

Well if you are actually able to recall all those 12 years, you would be able to know that Israel has caused a lot of problems in southern Lebanon and are the reason a lot of Southerners from a variety of religions and sects support HA. HA has made a lot of stupid and thuggish decisions in terms of their handling of the political situation but Israel has caused more damage and destruction to Lebanon than HA ever did. As seen recently with Sudan and Syria, Israel will attack even if unprovoked by militant groups because it simply "feels" threatened and will bypass international law and do whatever it wants. If that's not a trouble maker, I don't know what is.
HA are trouble makers and I'm not trying to defend them but to say HA is thuggish while Israel is a benefit just ridiculous. Look at a list of attacks by Israel against the State then look at the number of attacks by HA against the State and tell me whose done more damage.

melkart

June 2nd, 2009, 01:12 AM

Well if you are actually able to recall all those 12 years, you would be able to know that Israel has caused a lot of problems in southern Lebanon and are the reason a lot of Southerners from a variety of religions and sects support HA. HA has made a lot of stupid and thuggish decisions in terms of their handling of the political situation but Israel has caused more damage and destruction to Lebanon than HA ever did. As seen recently with Sudan and Syria, Israel will attack even if unprovoked by militant groups because it simply "feels" threatened and will bypass international law and do whatever it wants. If that's not a trouble maker, I don't know what is.
HA are trouble makers and I'm not trying to defend them but to say HA is thuggish while Israel is a benefit just ridiculous. Look at a list of attacks by Israel against the State then look at the number of attacks by HA against the State and tell me whose done more damage.

Surely Israel has done more physical damage. They have the capability to do that. as far as I am concerned the 2006 war with israel was the sole responsibility of hisballah, which as you know acts on their own will without the conscent of the Lebanese state. for that reason they must be controlled, and pose the biggest threat to the Lebanese state. as far as their dream to turn Lebanon into an islamic state, we don't know if they have abandoned that or not. just cause they tell u they did doesn't mean they have. don't be so gullible.

Lebanese Cedar

June 2nd, 2009, 01:53 AM

I am sorry what is your point again? I might be critical of Israel, but my thoughts have been very clear. Hisballah and rogue nations like Iran and Syria are causing instability, injustice, snd not to mention a burden on the Lebanese state. Israel so far attacked when provoked or threatened. so Lebanese Cedar I don't know what you're getting at. all the quotes u have pasted don't really say much except that I have defended Israel against iran. and let me make myself clear, under no circumstance would I undermine the Lebanese state, however in all honesty I think arresting those spies is only empowering hisballah and their allies. I didn't retract my statements I simply changed my tone, cause I don't think anyone should be above the law, so in that sense I support their arrests, but I think it will have negative consequences.

My point is you've constantly flip flopped on your stance regarding Israel.

You also keep dragging Hezbollah and Iran to facilitate your argument when these are two separate threats with different backgrounds and should be treated separately. Stop combining them.

Lebanon's conflict with Israel is decades older than its conflict with Iran and Hezbollah.

The Islamic Revolution in Iran happened in 1979 and Hezbollah rose to power in the early 80's.

Lebanon's conflict with Israel goes back to Israel's founding in 1948 when the ethnic cleansing of Palestine dumped a massive load of refugees on our homeland that today number more than 400,000.

So please stop with the "Iran and Hezbollah are my #1 enemies" talking points, it doesn't in any way further your argument, it deviates from it.

That's like me bringing in the topic of smoking being a health hazard when debating the hazards of greasy fatty foods. Both smoking and greasy fatty foods are unhealthy, but the two have nothing to do with each other, so why bring the other up?

Lebanon has paid very dearly because of Israel, but you somehow are trying to allude that Lebanon has nothing to do with the Arab-Israel conflict. It is very much a key member of the 60+ year conflict and there really isn't much Lebanon can do about it until the entire conflict is solved, if ever.

The primary consequence of the conflict are the Palestinian refugees. Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in 1948 causing a flight of refugees to settle in its neighbors, Lebanon included, and refusing to compensate and repatriate them is in itself a provocation, a very very big one.

Beiruti

June 2nd, 2009, 02:10 AM

Why is that?

Because they will have a good excuse and basically a free pass from the rest of the world. Anyway, they wont need to start a war because Hizballah will already be firing rockets.

melkart

June 2nd, 2009, 02:10 AM

My point is you've constantly flip flopped on your stance regarding Israel.

You also keep dragging Hezbollah and Iran to facilitate your argument when these are two separate threats with different backgrounds and should be treated separately. Stop combining them.

Lebanon's conflict with Israel is decades older than its conflict with Iran and Hezbollah.

The Islamic Revolution in Iran happened in 1979 and Hezbollah rose to power in the early 80's.

Lebanon's conflict with Israel goes back to Israel's founding in 1948 when the ethnic cleansing of Palestine dumped a massive load of refugees on our homeland that today number more than 400,000.

So please stop with the "Iran and Hezbollah are my #1 enemies" talking points, it doesn't in any way further your argument, it deviates from it.

That's like me bringing in the topic of smoking being a health hazard when debating the hazards of greasy fatty foods. Both smoking and greasy fatty foods are unhealthy, but the two have nothing to do with each other, so why bring the other up?

Lebanon has paid very dearly because of Israel, but you somehow are trying to allude that Lebanon has nothing to do with the Arab-Israel conflict. It is very much a key member of the 60+ year conflict and there really isn't much Lebanon can do about it until the entire conflict is solved, if ever.

The primary consequence of the conflict are the Palestinian refugees. Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in 1948 causing a flight of refugees to settle in its neighbors, Lebanon included, and refusing to compensate and repatriate them is in itself a provocation, a very very big one.

We have been at odds with Israel. Is that what you are looking to hear from me?
If that's the case than I agree! but my main concern as I've stated earlier is hisballah and their arms. if you want to discus Israel's conflict with Lebanon with disregard to hisballah and Iran, than we don't have much to talk about lol. Our current conflict with the israeli state revolves around them. so Yeah!

Lebanese Cedar

June 2nd, 2009, 03:29 AM

Our current conflict with the israeli state revolves around them. so Yeah!

I can assure you that if Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria disappeared from Lebanon tomorrow, the conflict with Israel would not disappear.

As March 14 does not wish to engage in armed hostilities with Israel, the conflict would be reduced to a largely political level, with the chance of a military conflict breaking out being slim, but the conflict itself would far from disappear.

The roots of this conflict go decades before Hezbollah or the rise of Islamic Iran.

melkart

June 2nd, 2009, 04:13 AM

I can assure you that if Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria disappeared from Lebanon tomorrow, the conflict with Israel would not disappear.

As March 14 does not wish to engage in armed hostilities with Israel, the conflict would be reduced to a largely political level, with the chance of a military conflict breaking out being slim, but the conflict itself would far from disappear.

The roots of this conflict go decades before Hezbollah or the rise of Islamic Iran.

the only conflict we have is the palestinian right of return, ghajar and the shebaa farms. If a palestinian state is formed than the refugees in lebanon could potentially live there.

Lebanese Cedar

June 2nd, 2009, 06:24 AM

the only conflict we have is the palestinian right of return, ghajar and the shebaa farms. If a palestinian state is formed than the refugees in lebanon could potentially live there.

Yeah, and those problems, in particular the Palestinian refugees, are not minor problems, they're very big problems that have haunted this country.

And no, a Palestinian state in West Bank and Gaza will not be able to accommodate all the Palestinian refugees.

Rabih

June 2nd, 2009, 09:50 AM

I don't understand why people are excited about Iran owning a Nuclear Weapon, when -if used against Israel- Lebanon will be extensively affected!

Hassoun

June 2nd, 2009, 01:17 PM

^^ If not GONE.

melkart

June 2nd, 2009, 03:10 PM

and the State of Lebanon hasn't attacked Israel in decades but its military bases, bridges, airports, seaports, and power plants/refineries, were all attacked.

Aid trying to persuade the Lebanese could be said about Saudi Arabia's (which is much more oppressive and fanatical than Iran) and America's aid to Lebanon. They aid Lebanon even though they also have major problems at home.

During the civil war HA dreamed of transforming Lebanon's multi-confessional state into an Iranian-style Islamic state and this idea has been largely abandoned today. I personally know several Christian, agnostic, and atheist supporters of HA. I'm starting to think you haven't lived in Lebanon. As I said, they will always have a reason to attack anyone but their reasons are simply nonsense and against International Law.

what are you talking about? Saudi Arabia is one of the richest coiuntries in the world. Saudi citizens enjoy a very high standard of living. Iran is impoverished.
what does opression has to do with monetary funds? besides I don't care if christian, agnostic or my ass supports hisballah, cause I personally don't. they have used their weapons against the Lebanese people, what part of that do you not find threatening?

melkart

June 2nd, 2009, 03:13 PM

Yeah, and those problems, in particular the Palestinian refugees, are not minor problems, they're very big problems that have haunted this country.

And no, a Palestinian state in West Bank and Gaza will not be able to accommodate all the Palestinian refugees.

Ok first let them establish a palestinian state, than worry about the fate of the palestinians. Secondly what do you propose to be done about this? Do you think Hisballah is the answer?

alisaleh

June 2nd, 2009, 05:02 PM

I don't understand why people are excited about Iran owning a Nuclear Weapon, when -if used against Israel- Lebanon will be extensively affected!

First of all, there is no proof at all that Iran has nuclear weapons

Iran would be VERY dumb to use any of them next to Lebanon, or even on Israel

They have all the right to actually build one if they wanted to

but you should really be scared of Israel, because it has proven throughout history, that it is ruthless

Iran has the right to defend themselves, Israel has over 200 nuclear missiles pointed at it....

but I will emphasize the fact that there is no proof to it, as intelligence reports that they stoped in 2003

melkart

June 2nd, 2009, 05:24 PM

First of all, there is no proof at all that Iran has nuclear weapons

They don't no one is saying they do

Iran would be VERY dumb to use any of them next to Lebanon, or even on Israel
Iran has proven to be very dumb

They have all the right to actually build one if they wanted to
Nah they don't!

but you should really be scared of Israel, because it has proven throughout history, that it is ruthless
Spooky Pookie

Iran has the right to defend themselves, Israel has over 200 nuclear missiles pointed at it....
They invented nukes

but I will emphasize the fact that there is no proof to it, as intelligence reports that they stoped in 2003

That intelligence was later determined flawed where have u been?

alisaleh

June 2nd, 2009, 05:27 PM

You are rediculous, go on, tell us about the benefits Israel could give us....I am ashamed to call myself Lebanese now ...pshht

melkart

June 2nd, 2009, 05:34 PM

You are rediculous, go on, tell us about the benefits Israel could give us....I am ashamed to call myself Lebanese now ...pshht

LOL I am just busting your balls, you don't have to be ashamed of who u are! the only benefit israel can give Lebanon is through trade and economics. imagine if we lived peacefully and had open borders with israel. some of the worlds best technologies came out of Israel.. Cell Phones, cat scans, pharmaceuticals, solar technology, agricultural technology, software development, etc etc. not to mention make-up!!!!! :)

HerrParhom

June 2nd, 2009, 07:48 PM

Iran is my biggest threat :) i never said that israel was the only victim here. nor did i say that i back israel 100%. but they do have a right to exist.

This is just ridiculous. You should admit that you simply dislike Iran. You're more than entitled to your opinion and there are many reasons not to like that country. But to say that it's proven to be a greater threat than Israel is so wrong, it's comical. Israel has proven over the past 40 years that it's willing to screw over the entire Lebanese population over the actions of groups it deems to be the slightest bit threatening. Even if I were to agree that Iran's financing of Hz is the massive detriment to Lebanon's progress that so many assert it is, it's NOTHING to compare with the physical and mental strain your Southern neighbor has inflicted upon your country.

If you consider the emigration out of Lebanon, the desertion of the country's tourists, the death toll of its civilians, Iran's impact isn't even comparable. It's analagous to the US exaggerating the threat of Iraq's ba'athist regime while they killed so many Iraqi civilians; far more than the Ba'athists ever did.

I don't know what kind of creative logic you and your fellow March 14thers have employed in making the argument that Iran is the real problem, but it's certainly extraordinary. The same group of people who call Hz out for being Lebanese aiming their guns at other Lebanese, turn around and then try to reach out to Israel. That's the same thing, except that it amounts to Lebanese pointing the IDF at other Lebanese. So pulling the "unity" card is less than convincing.

I really don't know what else to say. History speaks for itself. If you like Israel more than Iran as a country, that's perfectly cool. I understand the appeal. Just don't say Iran is the bigger threat to Lebanon when the opposite has been proven over the past 40 years, if not 60.