P W Botha passes away last night. I wonder how he will go down in history?

Ah that is sad. He was a real great man. Did many great things for his people, and a wonderful family man.

I wonder if we will see anything named after HIM??? :ohno:

I'm drinking and partying over it tonight.

I know it is bad luck to speak ill of the dead, but may the fucker rot in hell. :)

MAY I URGENTLY REQUEST/SUGGEST WE CLOSE THIS THREAD... It is going to go on for ever back and forth with political crap which we do not need.

and that is different from 1 million whites leaving thread or any of the other ones that have a political angle?
I thought thats what the shabeen was for

MAY I URGENTLY REQUEST/SUGGEST WE CLOSE THIS THREAD... It is going to go on for ever back and forth with political crap which we do not need.
The thread asks what this bastard's legacy will be. And it will be of upholding a racial system far and beyond when it was deemed inappropriate and unfathomable. It is not so much that apartheid itself was the problem, as parts of the world that slavery were arguably even worse. It was just that he was upholding it an era when it was clear that those ideas were simply not true.

He was responsible for ensuring that South Africa was internationally isolated. The world hated South Africa because of politicians like him. So may he get his just desserts.

The devil is waiting for him, BUSTARD!!! He Should have died long time ago. Die groot krokodil se foet.

Why should we moarn as he killed plenty of innocent people.

The devil is waiting for him, BUSTARD!!! He Should have died long time ago. Die groot krokodil se foet.

Why should we moarn as he killed plenty of innocent people.

Oh this is just lovely, so now we are just being plain nasty. I honestly don't think we need this kind of talk in our forum. Personally, there are quite a lot of people I would like to see dead, and I would like them to die in a lot of pain, not peaceful as old PW did, but I don't feel the need to express my wishes in our forum.

Oh this is just lovely, so now we are just being plain nasty. I honestly don't think we need this kind of talk in our forum. Personally, there are quite a lot of people I would like to see dead, and I would like them to die in a lot of pain, not peaceful as old PW did, but I don't feel the need to express my wishes in our forum.
No one was amicable when other non-democratic murderers died. Why should this racist get different treatment?

Oh the irony of it all...

Madiba pays tribute to Botha

Wed, 01 Nov 2006
The death of former state president PW Botha should serve as a reminder of the country's "horribly divided past", former president Nelson Mandela said in a tribute on Wednesday.

However, it should also serve to remind South Africans of how citizens of all persuasions ultimately came together to save the country from destruction, he said.

Botha died at his home Die Anker, near Wilderness in the Western Cape, just after 8pm on Tuesday.

"While to many Mr Botha will remain a symbol of apartheid, we also remember him for the steps he took to pave the way towards the eventual peacefully negotiated settlement in our country," said Mandela.

His correspondence with Botha while in prison was an important part of the initial stages of the process, as was his agreement to a personal meeting in Tuynhuys, he said.

Mandela expressed his sincere condolences to Botha's wife, Barbara, and the rest of his family.

Sapa

Lets take Madiba's lead & be the bigger person & pay tribute to the man, instead of ranting over the wrong doings in his life.

Agreed, i wish "Die Groot Krokodil" a peaceful rest. He may symbolize South Africa's bitter past but i think he certainly contributed to South Africa's current position in many ways that must be acknowledged.

On a lighter note, i will miss his finger wagging habit especially during press conferences. :) LOL

Please close this thread. I'm not gonna pretend, our parents suffered under his rule. What I'm saying is not racial remark, its just a remark against a person who don't even need this attension. Jonas Savimbi, the Angola warlord, was black and I was not sorry to celebrate his death.

Let's take cue from Madiba and Mbeki who have both shown reconciliation and statesmanship about the death of PW Botha. Sure the both of them could agree with the rest of the world as well as all parties in SA's Parliament that PW Botha's government was one of the worst in SA's memory with regard to both human rights abuses as well as gross economic mismanagement. We can all agree that this man brought SA international disrepute and diminished stature. But we must realize that SA is a much better place now as a democracy. Sure the past is hard especially to those who were oppressed under apartheid and Botha refused to take part in the TRC. But the ANC government's offer of a state funeral as well as the president's decision to lower the flag show how far SA has come. PW Botha did make the first although reluctant step to get rid of the system of apatheid when he met Mandela in 1989 which set the stage for FW de Klerk to take it full circle until 1994 when Nelson Mandela became president and SA became a democracy. As for those who want to mourn PW I expect only a few will do so in SA and almost no-one in the rest of the world. I personally do not miss him.

The end of an era. He has much to answer for.

I cant say I will morn him. he will not be missed. he was evil. But I think Thabo Mbeki/madiba and the others have shown real humanity in their response. It made me very proud of south africa.

What I object to is someone from new york who has never come on this forum or contributed anything to it or our country and talking about a subject that he clearly has nothing to do with.

Mmhmm, what a great response from Mandela.

Something doesn't seem right about cursing the dead. At the same time, it's only natural that the level of disappointment about his death will be... low.

-thryve

Ah that is sad. He was a real great man. Did many great things for his people, and a wonderful family man.

I wonder if we will see anything named after HIM??? :ohno:

Fokol sad about it. Good fucking riddance! He did wonderful things for you white afrikaners, but destroyed the lives of most south africans. He should have starved to dead on some remote island. Die krokodil is dead...VIVA!!

Ah that is sad. He was a real great man. Did many great things for his people, and a wonderful family man.

I wonder if we will see anything named after HIM??? :ohno:

I can't believe you can write something like this

here is a quote from the nice family man;

We do not pretend like other Whites that we like Blacks. The fact that, Blacks look like human beings and act like human beings do not necessarily make them sensible human beings. Hedgehogs are not porcupines and lizards are not crocodiles simply because they look alike. If God wanted us to be equal to the Blacks, he would have created> us all of a uniform colour and intellect. But he created us differently: Whites, Blacks, Yellow, Rulers and the ruled. Intellectually, we are superior to the Blacks; that has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt over the years. I believe that the Afrikaner is an honest, God fearing person, who has demonstrated practically the right way of being. Nevertheless, it is comforting to know that behind the scenes, Europe, America, Canada, Australia-and all others are behind us in spite of what they say. For diplomatic relations, we all know what language should be used and where. To prove my point, Comrades, does anyone of you know a White country without an investment or interest in South Africa? Who buys our gold? Who buys our diamonds? Who trades with us? Who is helping us develop other nuclear weapon? The very truth is that we are their people and they are our people. It's a big secret. The strength of our economy is backed by America, Britain, Germany. It is our strong conviction, therefore, that the Black is the raw material for the White man. So Brothers and Sisters, let us join hands together to fight against this Black devil. I appeal to all Afrikaners to come out with any creative means of fighting this war. Surely God cannot forsake his own people whom we are. By now every one of us has seen it practically that the Blacks cannot rule themselves. Give them guns and they will kill each other. They are good in nothing else but making noise, dancing, marrying
many wives and indulging in sex. Let us all accept that the Black man is the symbol of poverty, mental inferiority, laziness and emotional incompetence. Isn't it plausible? therefore that the White man is created to rule the Black man? Come to think of what would happen one day if you woke up and on the throne sat a Kaff*ir! Can you imagine what would happen to our women? Does anyone of you believe that the Blacks can rule this country?

For me, die groot krokodil was as bad as any of the other apartheid era presidents we had.. baaai to him..

Dovelling, can you please provide a reputable source for this speech? Many fake PW speeches have been doing the rounds. I have read many of Botha's speeches, but this one is just a tad outrageous. And if you found it on the internet its origin must be questioned. Botha made a lot of horrible remarks, and he was a very aggressive man, that cannot be ignored. But two wrongs does not make a right.

So be very careful when copying so-called Botha speeches from certain websites... I am not a Botha fan, but some of these speeches are just ludicrous!

Dovelling, can you please provide a reputable source for this speech? Many fake PW speeches have been doing the rounds. I have read many of Botha's speeches, but this one is just a tad outrageous. And if you found it on the internet its origin must be questioned. Botha made a lot of horrible remarks, and he was a very aggressive man, that cannot be ignored. But two wrongs does not make a right.

So be very careful when copying so-called Botha speeches from certain websites... I am not a Botha fan, but some of these speeches are just ludicrous!

AMEN!

THE FOLLOWING is a speech made by former South African President P.W. Botha to his Cabinet. This reprint was written by David G. Mailu for the Sunday Times, a South African newspaper, dated August 18, 1985

"Pretoria has been made by the White mind for the White man. We are not obliged even the least to try to prove to anybody and to the Blacks that we are superior people. We have demonstrated that to the Blacks in a thousand and one ways. The Republic of South Africa that we know of today has not been created by wishful thinking. We have created it at the expense of intelligence, sweat and blood. Were they Afrikaners who tried to eliminate the Australian Aborigines? Are they Afrikaners who discriminate against Blacks and call them Nigge*rs in the States? Were they Afrikaners who started the slave trade? Where is the Black man appreciated? England discriminates against its Black and their "Sus" law is out to discipline the Blacks. Canada, France, Russia, and Japan all play their discrimination too. Why in the hell then is so much noise made about us? Why are they biased against us? I am simply trying to prove to you all that there is nothing unusual we are doing that the so called civilized worlds are not doing. We are simply an honest people who have come out aloud with a clear philosophy of how we want to live our own White life.

We do not pretend like other Whites that we like Blacks. The fact that, Blacks look like human beings and act like human beings do not necessarily make them sensible human beings. Hedgehogs are not porcupines and lizards are not crocodiles simply because they look alike. If God wanted us to be equal to the Blacks, he would have created> us all of a uniform colour and intellect. But he created us differently: Whites, Blacks, Yellow, Rulers and the ruled. Intellectually, we are superior to the Blacks; that has been proven beyond any reasonable doubt over the years. I believe that the Afrikaner is an honest, God fearing person, who has demonstrated practically the right way of being. Nevertheless, it is comforting to know that behind the scenes, Europe, America, Canada, Australia-and all others are behind us in spite of what they say. For diplomatic relations, we all know what language should be used and where. To prove my point, Comrades, does anyone of you know a White country without an investment or interest in South Africa? Who buys our gold? Who buys our diamonds? Who trades with us? Who is helping us develop other nuclear weapon? The very truth is that we are their people and they are our people. It's a big secret. The strength of our economy is backed by America, Britain, Germany. It is our strong conviction, therefore, that the Black is the raw material for the White man. So Brothers and Sisters, let us join hands together to fight against this Black devil. I appeal to all Afrikaners to come out with any creative means of fighting this war. Surely God cannot forsake his own people whom we are. By now every one of us has seen it practically that the Blacks cannot rule themselves. Give them guns and they will kill each other. They are good in nothing else but making noise, dancing, marrying
many wives and indulging in sex. Let us all accept that the Black man is the symbol of poverty, mental inferiority, laziness and emotional incompetence. Isn't it plausible? therefore that the White man is created to rule the Black man? Come to think of what would happen one day if you woke up and on the throne sat a Kaff*ir! Can you imagine what would happen to our women? Does anyone of you believe that the Blacks can rule this country?

Hence, we have good reasons to let them all-the Mandelas-rot in prison, and I think we should be commended for having kept them alive in spite of what we have at hand with which to finish them off. I wish to announce a number of new strategies that should be put to use to destroy this Black bug. We should now make use of the chemical weapon. Priority number one, we should not by all means allow any more increases of the Black population lest we be choked very soon. I have exciting news that our scientists have come with an efficient stuff. I am sending out more
researchers to the field to identify as many venues as possible where the chemical weapons could be employed to combat any further population increases. The hospital is a very strategic opening, for example and should be fully utilized. The food supply channel should be used. We have eveloped excellent slow killing poisons and fertility destroyers. Our only fear is in case such stuff came in! ! to their hands as they are bound to start using it against us if you care to think of the many Blacks working for us in our houses.

However, we are doing the best we can to make sure that the stuff remains strictly in our hands. Secondly, most Blacks are vulnerable to money inducements. I have set aside a special fund to exploit this venue. The old trick of divide and rule is still very valid today. Our experts should work day and night to set the Black man against his fellowman. His inferior sense of morals can be exploited beautifully. And here is a creature that lacks foresight. There is a need for us to combat him in long term projections that he cannot suspect. The average Black does not plan his life beyond a year: that stance, for example,should be exploited. My special department is already working round the clock to come out with a long-term operation blueprint. I am also sending a special request to all Afrikaner mothers to double their birth rate. It may be necessary too to set up a population boom industry by putting up centres where we employ and support fully White
young men and women to produce children for the nation. We are also investigating the merit of uterus rentals as a possible means of speeding up the growth of our population through surrogate mothers.

For the time being, we should also engage a higher gear to make sure that Black men are separated from their women and fines imposed upon married wives who bear illegitimate children.

I have a committee working on finding better methods of inciting Blacks against each other and encouraging murders among themselves. Murder cases among Blacks should bear very little punishment in order to encourage them.

My scientists have come up with a drug that could be smuggled into their brews to effect slow poisoning results and fertility destruction. Working through drinks and manufacturing of soft drinks geared to the Blacks, could promote the channels of reducing their population. Ours is not a war that we can use the atomic bomb to destroy the Blacks, so we must use our intelligence to effect this. The person-to-person encounter can be very effective.

As the records show that the Black man is dying to go to bed with the White woman, here is our unique opportunity. Our Sex Mercenary Squad should go out and camouflage with Apartheid Fighters while doing their operations quietly administering slow killing poison and fertility destroyers to those Blacks they thus befriend.
We are modifying the Sex Mercenary Squad by introducing White men who should go for the militant Black woman and any other vulnerable Black woman. We have received a new supply of prostitutes from Europe and America who are desperate and too keen to take up the appointments.

My latest appeal is that the maternity hospital operations should be intensified. We are not paying those people to help bring Black babies to this world but to eliminate them on the very delivery moment. If this department worked very efficiently, a great deal could be achieved.

My Government has set aside a special fund for erecting more covert hospitals and clinics to promote this programme. Money can do anything for you. So while we have it, we should make the best use of it. In the meantime my beloved White citizens, do not take to heart what the world says, and don't be ashamed of being called racists. I do not mind being called the architect and King of Apartheid. I shall not become a monkey simply because someone has called me a monkey. I will still remain your bright star...His Excellency Botha. "

Waltjie, i would advice against blindly supporting a guy like PW Botha unless of course like me you are just trying to say good things to the dead. In my culture we do that as well. I take it you are also just following that basic instinct. But i know that there isn't much to write home about PW Botha simply because not much good can be said of his times. You only have to look at people like FW de Klerk, Helen Suzman, Pik Botha, Mandela, Mbeki even most former Nats politicians whose heads are sane are keeping quite. Painting him as a great man is difficult unless you are trying to look good in front of his family. Some people will probably do the same thing When Mugabe dies but realistically not much good will be remembered about him too.

Even Mandela didn't dwell much on this during his speech because even with his good and forgiving heart he could not find a lot to commend PW Botha about. So lets just agree to wish that PW must rest in peace, if god will allow him to, as he does go down with a lot of secrets. He never showed remorse or repentance of the things that his government perpetrated against the black people in South Africa which is going to make it difficult for him to rest in peace!!

I have never at any point said that what PW and his government did, was 'right', nor 'wrong'. I cannot and will not comment on this. Neither will I say that him or Mugabe or Hitler or anyone else was/is evil. Evil means different things for different people. I merely do not agree with bad-mouthing someone who is now dead.

There is no need for this.

I will say no more on this topic.

Oh...how nice of you. That's precisely what i thought of your statements. you are trying to say nice things about someone who is dead. nothing wrong with that. We do the same too and you will notice in my previous post, i also tried to be diplomatic and i even mentioned his finger wagging something i would dearly miss.

But some people don't feel the same way and they will use this thread to express their feelings.

what PW did was wrong...that is FACT. and i honestly dont give two hoots about downright stupid people who disagree.

I can agree that only few people are mourning the loss of PW Botha just as only a few people will mourn the death of Robert Mugabe which I hope for the sake of that country happens very soon.

Waltjie, You have made it wonderfully clear what a stupid idiot you really are. And you people ask why whites are being brutally murdered on farms...because of indoctrined shit uttered by your beloved good old man! He's not worthy of any state recognition. I was shocked that the flags were half mast for this dictator. Fuck this dipomatic shit. You fucking racists make me sick! !! But hey, cockroaches die hard...

Cosatu: PW was a brutal dictator

Johannesburg, South Africa
02 November 2006 06:00

PW Botha will be remembered with "hatred and disgust" as a brutal dictator who presided over a system that denied the majority all their basic human rights, the Congress of South African Trade Unions (Cosatu) said on Thursday.

"His hands were stained with the blood of hundreds who were murdered during the struggle for democracy and liberation under his presidency," Cosatu spokesperson Patrick Craven said.

"The overwhelming majority of South Africans and the people of the world will remember PW Botha only with hatred and disgust."

Botha died on Tuesday night.

Cosatu said the former president would be remembered as "a brutal dictator" and had robbed the majority of their chance to live a normal existence and improve their lives.

The federation rejected the notion that Botha had positively contributed to South Africa's democratic transformation.

"On the contrary, he remained to the very last a staunch defender of apartheid, racism, dictatorship and inequality, for which he refused to make the slightest apology."

Any reforms during Botha's presidency had taken place "in spite of rather than because of his intentions" and were meant to buy time for the apartheid regime under an illusion of change.

Botha was responsible for the misery of the millions he had condemned to poverty and the pain inflicted on the thousands who were jailed, assaulted and tortured by apartheid state thugs, Craven said.

The African Christian Democratic Party said on Thursday President Thabo Mbeki's decision to fly the national flag at half mast in recognition of Botha's death was a sign of "political maturity".

"With reference to the claims by some that giving Mr Botha such an honour is a slap in the face, the African Christian Democratic Party strongly disagrees, as we believe that Mr Mbeki has done the right thing," said the party in a statement.

The Pan African Congress earlier on Thursday slammed the decision and said government's offer of a state funeral was an insult to African people.


Meanwhile, it was reported that while a few people made the effort to sign the condolences book for PW Botha at the Union Buildings in Pretoria, the equivalent at Parliament in Cape Town remained starkly empty on Thursday.

Dozen condolences
But, the large grey book lies ready folded open on a table just inside the Tuynhuys foyer, pen at the ready, should anyone arrive to sign it.

In the entrance to the Pretoria offices from where he once ruled apartheid South Africa, a smiling picture of Botha was again on display.

Next to it, alongside two candles and a flower arrangement with large orange flowers, lies the condolences book, which late on Thursday was signed by only twelve people.

"Deep sympathies for the family," a simple entry by Essop Pahad, Minister in the Presidency, stated.

Lesetja Rabalao wished Botha would "rest in democratic peace", while Marie Tredoux wrote in Afrikaans "Ons sien jou in die hemel" (We will see you in heaven).

And, while the flag was flown at half-mast at the Union Buildings and Parliament on President Thabo Mbeki's instructions, it was vastly different from the orange, white and blue one hanging behind Botha in the picture.

'Brave'
PW Botha was "brave" in telling his followers to adapt or die, African National Congress (ANC) deputy president Jacob Zuma said on Thursday.

"This brave statement was not an easy one to make in the then-National Party and was not well received by the party faithful at the time."

In saying this, Botha told supporters they had to choose between adapting to the inevitable political change or to perish with the system of apartheid.

He ought to be also remembered for seeing the need for change, even though his approach to this was controversial, said Zuma in a statement.

Zuma said he learnt with sadness of Botha's death.

It was Botha who sent the first emissary to meet with the ANC on possible negotiations -- without the knowledge of most of his colleagues, Zuma pointed out.

It was also Botha who allowed justice minister Kobie Coetzee to open dialogue the then-imprisoned former president Nelson Mandela in the 1980s. -- Sapa

I KNEW COSATU WILL NOT SUGAR-COAT THE TRUTH! HOPEFULLY SOME WHITES ON THIS FORUM UNDERSTAND THAT NOT ALL THE WHITE MONSTERS WHO BRUTALIZED OUR PEOPLE ARE STILL LIVING. BOTHA IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF PEOPLE WHO BUTCHERED OUR PEOPLE AND CREATED SHANTY TOWNS WHERE MANY STILL LIVE UNDER. WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND.

:eek2:
please :lock: this thread

Wow another shit hole thread, the guy is dead! enough already!
How can we lead the way to a brighter future if we keep bringing back the past! Whats done is done, no one can change it.

This is the editorial from this week's Mail & Guardian, written obviously by Ferial Haffajee. I think she is an absolute Goddess. hehe. Anyway, I think this editorial is really good because it sums up what Botha really was about. thank the pope we no longer live under such tyranny.

PW: The Hard Truth

What is one to make of the government’s offer of a state funeral for PW Botha -- and the flying of government flags at half-mast -- when every ANC activist would cheerfully have strangled the man in his political heyday? Respect for the dead is taken to almost superstitious lengths in South Africa, and this may partly explain why we persist in heaping praise and honour on villains like Botha and Kaiser Matanzima. But there is also a confused notion that such double-speak fosters national reconciliation -- Botha was once the leader of South Africa’s whites, the argument apparently goes; even if he was a monster, it would be impolitic to say so.

It is important to place on record the kind of man and leader PW Botha really was. He was not “the great demolisher of apartheid”, as one news­paper commentator described him. Under mounting international pressure and internal dissent he did dismantle many discriminatory laws. But apartheid was never about segregation -- it was about white minority power. The real issue was the conquest of political freedom and the vote. And on this, Botha was absolutely immovable.

During his nine-year presidential tenure the ANC remained banned and draconian clamps on any form of support for it intensified. The homeland system was clearly part of Botha’s long-term plan for South Africa, which envisaged ongoing white political stewardship, with coloureds, Indians, and perhaps ultimately urban Africans, as junior partners. And to stave off majority rule he hugely expanded the size, power and resourcing of the state security apparatus. During the emergencies of the late 1980s, with the security forces given free rein, tens of thousands were detained, jailed, tortured, maimed and killed. Dozens of organisations were banned; newspapers were silenced by fiat. Death squads plied their grisly trade here and abroad. Huge sums of public money were secretly ploughed into propaganda, “contra-mobilisation” and support for “moderate blacks”. The economies of neighbouring states seen as harbouring “terrorists” were systematically disrupted.

South Africa can count itself lucky that a “cerebral incident” and FW de Klerk’s party coup arrested this murderous rampage. With Botha at the helm, the country would have slid inexorably towards a full-blown South American-style military dictatorship and, almost certainly, a racial holocaust.

What was it all for? After all the misery, waste and broken lives the ANC was unbanned and now rules South Africa. President Thabo Mbeki was wrong to say, in his message of condolence, that Botha understood “in his own way” that resistance to change was futile. One of the worst features of this arrogant and truculent man was his utter lack of contrition for the pointless suffering he caused so many innocent people. He could have tried to make his peace with them; he could have helped the truth commission heal the wounds he inflicted. Instead, he withdrew into a haughty sulk at his George home, on the state ­pension the ANC government continued to pay him.

Reconciliation does not mean placating people like Botha or drawing a discreet veil over what they were. There are many other white Afrikaners, men and women like Bram Fischer, Beyers Naudé and Antjie Krog, to hold up as appropriate role models. A united South Africa will only emerge when our atrocious history is unflinchingly confronted, so that it becomes a history we all own.

Flags fly at half mast, but let the truth be told: A monster is dead



MONOMANIAC: South Africa endured PW Botha’s finger-wagging tyranny for 11 years @Picture: RAYMOND PRESTON

IT WAS in December 1985 that death-squad leader Eugene de Kock received instructions from Brigadier Willem Skoon, approved by the then Prime Minister PW Botha, to stage raids on anti-apartheid activists in Maseru, Lesotho. De Kock and his squad of four policemen and several Askaris (turned ANC cadres) drove to Ladybrand, picked up three local policemen and proceeded to Maseru.

De Kock later testified to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that while he and Warrant Officer Willie Nortje attacked the first house, the other bandits proceeded to the house occupied by Leon Meyer and his wife, Jacqueline Anne Quinn.

She opened the door, presumably after she recognised the voice of the police agent who led the squad to their house, De Kock said. “Jackie grabbed the gun barrel and was shot by [the police agent]. The two operatives then shot Leon.”

Meyer did not die immediately. He was left bleeding and in terrible pain as De Kock and his men fled the scene. A neighbour who saw his last moments told his brother : “[He] smashed through the patio door with his boots, calling out in an ailing voice, ‘We have been attacked by the Boers. They killed my wife. Please call an ambulance. The pain is unbearable, give me some pain killers.’”

Meyer died. Every member of the hit squad received a Police Star Award for bravery from General Basie Smit.

The period between 1978 and 1989 was the bloodiest in South Africa’s recent history. State-sanctioned murder, torture, detention and other forms of violence were the order of the day.

According to journalist Jacques Pauw’s invaluable book, In the Heart of the Whore, 213 people were killed by apartheid’s covert hit squads between 1978, when PW Botha took charge of the country, and 1989, when he was ousted.

University of the Witwatersrand academic David Webster said — before he was himself assassinated by an apartheid hit squad in 1989 — that 10000 children under the age of 18 were detained in the two years between 1986 and 1988.

The conservative SA Institute of Race Relations said the number of politically related deaths between September 1984 and October 1990 was 8577. In the ’80s South Africa had the third-highest judicial execution rate in the world. Between 1980 and July 1989, 1109 people were hanged in South Africa.

Esteemed lawyer George Bizos told the United Nations in 1989 that more than 70000 men, women and children had been detained since 1960, many of them in the ’80s. Thousands of young white males, many only 18, were forced to fight and die in apartheid’s wars in Angola, Namibia and in South Africa’s townships.

This is the state that apartheid president PW Botha, who died this week at the age of 90, presided over. Yet, to his dying day, he believed he had presided over a benign state.

“I will never ask for amnesty. Not now, not tomorrow, not after tomorrow,” he said in June 1999.

This week, as light rain fell on most parts of South Africa, the flag above the Union Buildings flew forlornly at half-mast. We are in mourning, it said. One of our leaders is dead.

What a cruel irony. What an insult to truth and history. The gesture illustrates one of our greatest weaknesses: as a country we tend to rush to equate the abundance of forgiveness and reconciliation with the quest for truth.


A character in Milan Kundera’s Book of Laughter and Forgetting says: “The struggle of man against power is the struggle of memory against forgetting.”


Botha’s life and death were devoid of truth. While the foot soldiers of apartheid, like De Kock, gave bits and pieces of truth to their victims and the country through the TRC process, Botha defied the national sentiment and instead chose scorn and an irrational malice. By refusing to testify before the TRC, he also refused to acknowledge the pain and suffering he visited upon this country.

Hearing of his death, I was reminded of the movie Apocalypse Now, Francis Ford Coppola’s adaptation of Joseph Conrad’s classic Heart of Darkness. In it, the renegade Colonel Walter E Kurtz says: “Horror. Horror has a face ... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends.”

Botha presided over the wanton spread of horror over our land. He ordered it, saw it dispensed and decorated those who followed his orders. Horror was his friend. It beat in his heart and ran in his veins.

We feel no joy at his passing. We seek neither revenge nor rancour. All we ask is that the history be accurate, be true, and be fair.

It is generally said that one should not speak ill of the dead. But let the truth be told: a monster is dead.

Botha became prime minister of South Africa in 1978, two years after the 1976 riots and a year after the tragic death of Stephen Bantu Biko. It was obvious that white minority rule and the racist policies that buttressed it were an anachronism; elsewhere in Africa, the wind of change had long blown.

Over the next decade the signs for change would be magnified. Internally, protest against apartheid reached fever pitch.

Botha’s successor, F W de Klerk, said this week that in this climate Botha “allowed free trade union activity and presided over the repeal of almost 100 discriminatory laws, including pass laws, the Immorality Act and the Mixed Marriages Act.”

Someone is being economical with the truth. The ANC had called on its people to render apartheid laws unworkable and hundreds of blacks — with the assistance of some whites — were moving in force, albeit illegally in defiance of the Group Areas Act, into areas like Hillbrow and Berea in Johannesburg, Albert Park in Durban and Observatory in Cape Town.

Trade union activity was highly curtailed — hundreds of mineworkers were shot by police while they were holding meetings. In truth, Botha was not reforming. He was reacting to what was already on the ground. The pass laws, for example, were no longer being enforced because the jails were full.

The truth of these so-called reforms is that they were meant to turn legitimate political leaders such as Nelson Mandela into Bantustan apartheid lackeys like Lucas Mangope of Bophuthatswana.

Offers to release Mandela were always conditional.

“As soon as he renounces violence and undertakes not to start violence in South Africa, the government will release him,” Botha said in 1988.

These reforms were deeply paternalistic and racist in nature, too. For example, while Africans were consigned to the Bantustans, Botha created the loathsome tricameral parliament, giving limited and laughable political rights to coloureds and Indians.

For all the talk of his being a reformer, there was one inalienable human right that Botha could not grant a black person: the right to vote in free and fair elections on the basis of one person, one vote.

As he told his interviewer, Cliff Saunders, earlier this year, his belief was that our country would have “gone down the drain” if the vote had been given to blacks in the ’60s and ’70s. He died believing that we were indeed “going down the drain” because blacks were in charge.

Botha’s style of leadership was monomaniacal. He failed to listen to the reasonable voices of his own people and of the world. On sanctions, he said: “Not only will we survive [sanctions], we will emerge stronger on the other side.”

By the time he was ousted from office, the South African economy was a shambles, thousands of people were in detention, the townships were on fire and the country was definitely “down the drain”, thanks to his intransigence.

The most interesting aspect of Botha’s failure — and betrayal of the new South Africa — was his demand to be allowed to enjoy our reconciliation without imposing upon himself the burden of truth. This is what is missing from the monster that he was: the realisation that redemption only comes with staring truth in the face, acknowledging the horror of what one is .

British journalist Victoria Brittain wrote: “These were crimes whose results will live on into generations who have long forgotten the names of those responsible for them. This crime against humanity — as racial segregation has been recognised — stands along with Nazi Germany in the record of shame of the 20th century.”

This is how I remember PW Botha. He is up there with Hitler.

Fokol sad about it. Good fucking riddance! He did wonderful things for you white afrikaners, but destroyed the lives of most south africans. He should have starved to dead on some remote island. Die krokodil is dead...VIVA!!

I don't think he did such wonderful things for us white afrikaners. He fucked us up more than anybody else.

The unfortunate results of our apartheid past means that things continue to be seen in a black and white perspective. But i do sympathize with those white people many of whom wanted a better and more inclusive democratic system and an end to Botha's policies of racial segregation and abuse of black people's human rights. But unfortunately i have met many whites who can not see beyond their own backyards and fail to appreciate what life was like for those who were not white enough during Botha's regime. This is unfortunate and a complete failure to return the favor that black people have shown. In this regard i would like to applaud people like Adriaan Vlok who were strong enough to apologize for human right abuses carried out during the apartheid days.

The unfortunate results of our apartheid past means that things continue to be seen in a black and white perspective. But i do sympathize with those white people many of whom wanted a better and more inclusive democratic system and an end to Botha's policies of racial segregation and abuse of black people's human rights. But unfortunately i have met many whites who can not see beyond their own backyards and fail to appreciate what life was like for those who were not white enough during Botha's regime. This is unfortunate and a complete failure to return the favor that black people have shown. In this regard i would like to applaud people like Adriaan Vlok who were strong enough to apologize for human right abuses carried out during the apartheid days.

Yes, Well Adriaan Vlok was just as crooked as the rest of them, and therefore he should apologise. I, however was not an active participant in the Apartheid system and am sure has hell not going to apologise for being born white. See, this is exactly the legacy that I'm left with as a white Afrikaner - I am universally hated and ideologically grouped with people like Botha and Vlok. It just passes unnoticed that our fellow forumer Harberk deems the murder of white farmers getting what they deserve. Not so nice in my opinion. Racism is an ugly, ugly thing, and people have to start realising that (1) apartheid is in the past and there is a whole new generation of white South Africans who had no part or say in it and who want to distance themselves from that legacy, (2) xenophobia is no more excuseable than racism within the borders of one's own country - here in Cape Town 30 Somali shop-owners were murdered in little over a month: had nothing to do with white people and is so easily just swept under the carpet, (3) racism in South Africa takes on other nuances than just white/black - I work at a university where half of the students are black and half are coloured, and the extreme racial tension that I witness here is astonishing and extremely pronounced in things like graffiti, and (4) racism is never justified, nor is the victimisation of innocent people - killing farmers will never be acceptable to me, nor will the killing of Samali shopkeepers ever be acceptable to me.

Can people just please get over the colour of their skin and move on?

well written caisson boy, I agree completly that as a white south african male Im by default seen as a child of apartheit (even though both paretnst were british immigrants) , have benifited at the expense of other races (went to a small liberal multiracial convent school that my single mother had to work 3 jobs to afford), had a government sponsered or helped degree ( went overseas and worked to save enough to put my self through tertiary education) and after all that Im seen as Caisson expalins.
Racisim works both ways and there is even rasisim or xenophobia in SA amongst the black population regarding what part of the country you come from or language you speak never mind the immigrats who get thrown of trains and kileld cos they come from somalia or nigeria or whereever.
What happened was bad, I do not deny it and have never profited from it but I am punished for it by AA etc.
Now before we ignite the whole BEE and AA issue , this is simply my opinion based on my past and history in SA and please dont think that one shoe fits all and Im trying to justify 40years of oppresion

yea! his dead but thats 20years too late anyway apartied wasnt built on a one man army there where some other thugs hanging around in thoses intresting sa boy ur the first person to use AA lol ps u guys think ur screwed just imagine how difficult it is to a get a sa work permit then find a job biggest mission in the world

well said caisson boy. often its perceptions that count the most. I can understand where you stand because i personally never experienced apartheid, i am too young to have seen its policies affecting me personally, at least not in the manner that our parents experienced for example. Now when most people that i know of complain about racism, they do so knowing well that it does not apply to everyone. But unfortunately,not all people think like Caisson boy or like Me. So we all have to suffer the consequences of being labeled something we are not. Take for example someone like me and many other countless black people that i know of, who have earned our education and experience and today occupy positions in both the public and private sector. We are automatically branded Affirmative Action junk, because the company that employed us wanted to do the numbers to comply with BEE targets. And i see this sort of comments all the time in all kinds of forums.

Now that is not exactly exciting for someone in my position and can be insulting. So i can understand your feeling of being labeled a racist or someone who was responsible for apartheid. But the problem lies not with you or me, but with what each and everyone of us is doing to eradicate this past that so often rares its head in our every day life. How do we stay away from the temptation of forming opinions and making decisions that are influenced by racial discrimination, prejudice and stereo types. This often happens so easily that anyone can fall victim of it, be it black or white people. I am in Ghana for example where we just launched a telecommunications company and after we hired 15 staff, i realised the only female we had was the receptionist and i asked the rest of the guys (all Ghanaian) if they could recommend some females for the other remaining positions so we can balance things out and they all looked at me in disbelief, almost suggesting to me that no female in Ghana could fill those positions in Technology and Sales or Marketing! So no hard feelings about this, but we do have to debate these issues because unfortunately South Africa is still a long way from a perfect world when it comes to the issue of race and sex. Even the US is struggling with some of the basics that we are dealing with in SA. The issue you raise of xenophobia is equally important although it might appear to be taking a back seat to race issues. that's purely because the race issues have more to do with sorting your house first, before dealing with immigration issues and we must confront these issues in order to move on or else they will be with us for dacades to come.

Violent xenophobia isn't excusable or justifiable, but there are legitimate concerns about South Africa's ability to accomodate millions of people from the rest of the continent who have entered South Africa illegally and simply add on to the unemployment problem in the country. There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to enforce immigration laws and keep illegal aliens out.

While I don't doubt that there are Afrikaaners who had nothing to do with apartheid and had/have no fondness for it, the few Afrikaaners who I have encountered in person have uniformly been un-reconstructed racists. If this is the norm, and Brits/Canadians/Americans/and others only see die-hard segregationist South Africans moving abroad into their countries, they'll form their own (perhaps inaccurate) conclusions.