I've heard that before, but I haven't had anyone at MTA confirm it. Also if there were more subway projects they'd never be left underground. Madrid's continuous rail expansion program has them using many of the same TBMs just with different shields.



Madrid's system might be more shallow than ours.

You're wrong -- if there were more subway projects YES they would still be left in the ground...digging away!

If there were boring machines left in the ground past Wilshire/Western then they would obviously either have to be removed or re-started.

I definitely think the Eastside Gold Line tunnels are shallow enough that the boring machines would simply come back out after their job is done, but the question is whether their specs are the same as for our heavy rail subways (Red/Purple Lines). I would tend to believe that they are slightly too narrow to be used for heavy rail tunneling.

You're wrong -- if there were more subway projects YES they would still be left in the ground...digging away!

Indeed!

The Eastside TBMs will be pulled out of the ground (if they haven't already). And an MTA executive has told me they could be used on the Purple line extension.

Damien, good luck tonight. i hope you blow everyones socks off, even though youre preaching to the choir.

I thought it went well. It was a great place for my first run. I was preaching to the choir but this is a group of people who know their stuff. So in many respects it was all the more necessary for me to present the technical aspects (specifically the advancements in tunneling) clearly and concisely. I couldn't just put up a picture of the map and picture of people walking around in a community with mixed-use developments and expect to be taken seriously.

The powerpoint presentation will be up on our new website when it launches soon. Yep, you heard me right: we're trying to put the website together and we need your help.

This first version of the website is really functional. The purpose is to park the map on the web and to bring the many talents and skills of the people interested in this effort to improve the quality of life in Los Angeles to create an activist-oriented site to create some change and stir some debate.

Again: WE NEED YOUR HELP!

I firmly believe that the talent is in this forum and others to create a first-class website and a top-notch web outreach team.

I have a good idea of what is necessary, but I want to know what you think, and if you have a little bit of time to contribute your skills to the effort we need it.

Do you have ideas on how to effectively market the plan and increase awareness of mass transit on the net and on the street – to build a movement?

Do you have or would you like to create renderings of transit oriented developments/smart growth in Los Angeles?

Are you a computer programmer, website developer, graphics designer, filmmaker or photographer?

Do you have a background in engineering, planning or architecture?

Would you like to help us with our research efforts?

Can you translate from English to one of region's more prominent foreign languages?

No offer of assistance will go unanswered. We're really trying to put together a first-rate website and with the collective talents of just average citizens contributing a little time here and a little time there we can help make our great city more livable.

Join the discussion here or sign-up for the listserv/google groups: Get L.A. Moving Plan (http://groups.google.com/group/getlamoving)

And my public email address is now getlamoving at gmail dot com

Distribute it as freely as you like.

I still think making t-shirts is a great idea. And where I work, customers always see me and comment on things I wear. I could put players of the map with website info at places like The Smell in downtown or random places on the promenade.

EDIT: Look whats my new desktop pic :-)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/concertino58/Picture1-1.png

Hey all,

I'm Jason Law--the guy that's been working on the map and website lately. My background in this stuff is that I used to dabble in web design/coding and other media-related things a couple of years back, and have volunteered my now-rusty skills.

For now, "version 1" of the site can be viewable at http://glam.fminus.com/index.php. Still a work in progress, it's got a very simple blog that I coded up and a bunch of placeholder pages.

There is a "Google Group (http://groups.google.com/group/getlamoving?hl=en)" devoted to discussing all the work behind the site and plan, and we encourage you to join and offer your ideas and help.

Eventually we hope to have a more feature/content-laden site with hoping to accomplish many site goals (http://groups.google.com/group/getlamoving/browse_thread/thread/b330879bd57a3d2a?hl=en), for now we want to get a minimal usable site launched, with the hope of getting more technical hands on deck soon to help out with creating a bigger and better site.

So--thoughts? Ideas? Offers to supply help? Post them here or on the Google Group discussion--you won't be ignored.

I still think making t-shirts is a great idea. And where I work, customers always see me and comment on things I wear. I could put players of the map with website info at places like The Smell in downtown or random places on the promenade.

EDIT: Look whats my new desktop pic :-)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/concertino58/Picture1-1.png



ummm....like...go LA....

:banana: this picture is sooo cool.....i really hope this gets built in our lifetime's.....also since there are so many lines people will be more inclined to vote for a bond for this since the majority of people in LA county would be near at least one of these lines.....GO Tangerine Line!

About a third of the above map will be built by 2009-2010 the opening of the Expo and E. Gold. By the way, no judgements here just some food for thought. The following was taken from a discussion on one of the many blogs out there on how to get from JFK airport to Park Slope/Prospect Heights, Brooklyn area:


jujube wrote:
meganlibrarian wrote:
I've become a rabid convert to the JFK-Airtrain-2/3 subway route home to PH. It might be 25% slower overall (1 hour vs 40-45 minutes), but it's so much less stressful. I know what the transit cost will be ($20RT a person, versus $65-75 plus tip for a car service RT), the "drivers" never deviate from the route and I don't have to make any annoying small talk. Absolute heaven.


Sorry can one explain how to make the Airtrain to 2/3 connection again? I thought Airtrain only went to Jamaica or Howard Beach...


You take the Airtrain to Jamaica. Once at Jamaica, you buy a LIRR ticket to Flatbush Station. Ride the train to Flatbush Station (aka Atlantic Center) and then hop on a 2/3 (or a 4/5/B/Q/whatever). Voila!Did I just read that right? 3 transfers, on 3 different modes??! People mover, to commuter rail to intraurban train and the last word is voila! Total miles of trip 9.7! But yet the sentence was ended with voila!

I've taken this trip before so I know that it does take an hour not counting the fact that you are dragging luggage around. And we complain in LA that a one seated 30 minute ride along the Gold Line from Pasadena to downtown is too much because "in my car it only takes me 29 minutes!"
I'm very skeptical and have always been about the idea of convincing drivers to abandon their cars for trains, i.e. choice riders. In NYC most are not choice riders even if they are making lots of money because they don't have a car to begin with. So it's either taking a cab or the subway. Here, even homeless people own a car. Constructing that full map won't mean a thing if you don't FORCE people out of their private autos. This means sky high parking rates, non-expansion of freeways and roadways, iow allowing traffic to get as bad as possible. Please read this again and think how many of you had this been LA, would just drive yourself home, have someone pick you up or just rent a car, knowing if you had to go through what it takes to get from JFK to Westernly parts of Brooklyn would be cursing the MTA and LA, and this was done in the WINTER!!! Once again, I am explicitly against trying to cowtow to "choice drivers" unless you are hard enough on them to become "must riders". You should be building a rapid rail system for the already faithful riders not for the upper class so that we can beat our chest and say 'we got rich folks ridin' our trains just like in New Yawk'. It may just be semantics but this "Choice Rider" bullshit really gets underneath my skin.

Please explain to me how taking a people mover to a commuter rail to a subway for 9.7 miles for an hour is ended with VOILA! And many people here(yes, right on this forum) complain about ONEtrain, ONEseat for a mere 30 minutes being too slow!!!!! Who complains about that? Is it the people comparing their cars trip time from Pasadena to downtown surely at midnight, uh those pesky "choice drivers".:ohno:

By the way, no judgements here just some food for thought.

Yeah, didn't see any judgments in that post...

I'm planning on forming a group called COLLR (Convert the Orange Line to Light Rail)...who's with me?

I'm not feeling the name too much.... "coolr" it sounds more like a collect call of some sort.
Your going to upset some of my ex neighbors in Valley Village/Sherman Oaks when they hear this.....

What are your plans as to making this a successful campaign?

I'm not feeling the name too much.... "coolr" it sounds more like a collect call of some sort.
Your going to upset some of my ex neighbors in Valley Village/Sherman Oaks when they hear this.....

What are your plans as to making this a successful campaign?

"COLLR" is meant to be pronounced like "color."

- The Orange Line as it is, is sssslllooowww
- A year after opening, the asphalt pavement of the busway was already deteriorating. The Light rail infrastructure is made to last 50 years before a major overhaul. If they're gonna re-pave that thing every year, the cost savings of building it as a busway are dwindling fast.
- A train would fill up those park and ride lots!
- The right of way is wide enough that the existing busway service can run on a slightly-modified route while a light rail line would be built, resulting in little or no interruption of service.
- Orange Line as light rail would finally make it deserving of a colored line designation.

Isn't MTA looking into replacing the Original Bus Liners with new 80 footers?

It's a bad idea primarily because it would likely preclude anything from being done on the corridor where service is actually needed: Ventura.

Leave it as a busway, possibly electrify it and add express service (a la El Monte busway) to the current local service to reduce end to end time from 45 to probably around 36-38. But build rail on the Ventura corridor.

Any of these sound familiar? :D

1. Click here to listen (http://media.putfile.com/Los-Angeles-Metro-subway-door)


2. Click here to listen (http://media.putfile.com/Blue-Line-Door)


3. Click here to listen (http://media.putfile.com/Green-Line-Announcement)

It's a bad idea primarily because it would likely preclude anything from being done on the corridor where service is actually needed: Ventura.

Leave it as a busway, possibly electrify it and add express service (a la El Monte busway) to the current local service to reduce end to end time from 45 to probably around 36-38. But build rail on the Ventura corridor.

(What Damien REALLY means is, "Look, I really don't wanna have to re-draw that map AGAIN") :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Besides, if your map reflects an ideal "Sky's the limit" transit budget anyway, why NOT an additional rail line in the Valley?

Any of these sound familiar? :D

1. Click here to listen (http://media.putfile.com/Los-Angeles-Metro-subway-door)


2. Click here to listen (http://media.putfile.com/Blue-Line-Door)


3. Click here to listen (http://media.putfile.com/Green-Line-Announcement)


I guess it's been so long for me that I've forgotten how it sounds....

Nimby Nimby Nimby Nimby...

Something's wrong with unused right of way
Steve Lopez
Points West

January 28, 2007

You want to know where the thought of L.A. traffic will make you feel like crying?

Drive to Overland Avenue just north of the Santa Monica Freeway and stop when you see the sign that says:
"RR Crossing"
Don't worry about getting hit by a train, by the way. The tracks are still there on both sides of Overland, but they haven't carried a train in nearly 20 years, when freight service was discontinued.

Until 1953, there was passenger service too, with trains gliding along on what was known as the Santa Monica Air Line. The rail service was touted in 1920s advertisements as all the more reason to buy a new home in Cheviot Hills, where lucky Angelenos could hop aboard "the airline to the beaches."

Cheviot Hills resident and historian Jonathan Weiss pointed this out as he led me and a neighbor, Sarah Hays, on a tour of the abandoned rail line. We walked from Overland in an easterly direction all the way to the Santa Monica Freeway with Hays' daughter and one of her pals.

You can hear the distant whoosh of freeway traffic, but otherwise there's not a sound along the right of way, which is roughly the size of a four-lane highway on this particular stretch and even wider west of Overland.

That's the maddening part. The 15-mile Expo Line, which would run from Santa Monica to USC, was purchased by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority in 1990. The plan was to run buses or light-rail cars along the route, turning north near USC and heading all the way to downtown Los Angeles. Studies suggested that it would instantly become one of the busiest passenger lines in the country.

But this is Los Angeles, and nothing got done. So you stand out there on the right of way, gritting your teeth, wondering why, at the very least, it couldn't have been turned into a greenbelt and bikeway.

Funding concerns, politics, regional and ethnic divisions, the usual lack of imagination and leadership, and frenzied neighborhood opposition have kept an invaluable transit route idle. And even now, with the MTA finally beginning to design the phase of the project that will run from Culver City to the west, the Cheviot Hills Homeowners Assn. voted 14 to 0 on Jan. 3 to oppose use of the right of way.

People in Cheviot and nearby communities along the right of way have expressed concerns about noise and proximity to schools and houses, noting that trains would be within 50 feet of some homes and possibly reduce property values.

But don't call them NIMBYs, homeowner association President Kevin Hughes told me.

"Cheviot Hills doesn't need light rail as much as Venice and Sepulveda do," he said, explaining that Cheviot homeowners would rather have the line run in a more southerly route along Venice Boulevard and then north on Sepulveda Boulevard.

Those communities are denser, he argued, and in greater need of transit options than their more affluent neighbors to the north.

Maybe so, but there's a problem with that logic: There's no preexisting railroad right of way along Venice Boulevard.

Hughes contacted me to compliment me on a column in which I said the city shouldn't have approved two 47-story condo towers and other projects in Century City before having a transit plan in place to handle the increased traffic. Then why is he anti-transit a few miles away in Cheviot?

"It is a bit glib to dismiss an affluent, well-maintained neighborhood as 'rich, selfish NIMBYs,' " he said in an e-mail. "Sometimes the NIMBYs have a point and sometimes the city has an interest in preserving its nice neighborhoods. Cheviot Hills is desirable because the hard-working, friendly, generous people who live there care a lot."

What, and the residents of the communities to the south are a bunch of selfish deadbeats?

"NIMBYism is NIMBYism, regardless of the neighborhood," argued another Cheviot resident. Bob Simon, a physician, received Hughes' e-mail response to me because he's a member of the homeowner association board and Hughes sent it to all 15 members.

Simon told me he favors light rail on the railroad right of way but mistakenly voted against it at the Jan. 3 meeting, thinking he was voting on whether they should vote. After receiving a copy of Hughes' e-mail to me, he issued a stinging response in which he called the homeowner association's position hypocritical.

"ALL COMMUNITIES in this city need light rail," Simon wrote. "We are crammed with outrageous traffic and need alternative transportation. To say that Cheviot doesn't need access to transportation is to negate all of the arguments we have used for years against [Century City] development."

He went on to say that preservation of the precious neighborhood is not at stake, because the right of way runs alongside rather than through Cheviot Hills "for less than 1/4 mile."

Hughes called Simon a cheap-shot artist and said the board represented the majority view of residents based on a recent survey. That majority view prevailed through the 1990s as well, with Cheviot residents using their considerable influence on L.A. County Supervisor and MTA board member Zev Yaroslavsky, among others.

"Why punish ourselves on a route that has so many problems," Yaroslavsky said in March 2000, when he and the MTA board voted 11 to 1 to study his proposed alternative along Venice Boulevard.

So it'll be more than a little interesting to see Yaroslavsky's next move. Ever since I wrote Jan. 7 that Yaroslavsky has had it with traffic, readers have lambasted him for his long opposition to subways, his approval of massive developments without adequate transit options and for now complaining about the mess they accuse him of helping to create.

We're still several years away from seeing the Expo Line open for business, but some important decisions have to be made soon. Yaroslavsky tells me he won't take a position on the best route for the Expo Line until the MTA completes a study of both routes — probably a year from now.

It's a topic worthy of full-blown public debate, and a former MTA executive and current member of the Cheviot Hills Homeowners Assn. offered his two cents' worth in an e-mail to me.

"The population density along Palms/Culver, which includes multifamily housing, would make available low-cost transit to thousands of residents along that corridor," wrote Anthony J. Padilla, who thinks the southerly route makes far more sense.

"This does not even consider the hundreds of businesses that would benefit from having thousands of new customers available to them, reduce the need for parking space which could be utilized to more effectively expand a business and an expanded employee pool of qualified candidates who can travel efficiently to work at a reasonable cost."

But we also know that the southerly route would be longer by more than a mile, that it would block traffic at more crossings than would the other line, that it would take longer to get from one end to the other and that it would cost as much as $50 million to $100 million more to build because of its length.

In a perfect world, the Expo Line would have a branch along both routes. But when you walk along the old right of way, it's maddening to think it might never be put back to use in a city choked with traffic and smog.

Shouldn't one goal of transit be to get people out of their cars as well as to serve those who have no wheels? If so, what better place to offer rail than in a neighborhood of homes with two-car garages and an abandoned train route the taxpayers have already bought and paid for?

*
--------------------
Reach the columnist at steve.lopez@latimes.com

(What Damien REALLY means is, "Look, I really don't wanna have to re-draw that map AGAIN") :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

LOL!

Besides, if your map reflects an ideal "Sky's the limit" transit budget anyway, why NOT an additional rail line in the Valley?

It's not a sky's the limit proposal. I'm attempting to be as practical as possible and connect all of the major population centers, destinations and job centers, and I don't know anyone who can justify building urban rail on two corridors 1 mile to 1.5 miles away from each other, when one really doesn't have any purpose. The Orange line has about 3 destinations in its 15 miles and that's it. A bulk of the ridership would shift to the Ventura Blvd line if its built.

I've written many times that the Chandler ROW should have never been built on. The density is to the north and the commercial hearts of the Valley are Ventura and Van Nuys and that's why both have higher ridership than the current San Fernando Valley busway. Maybe upgrade it to Metrolink, but at what cost compared to the cost of the current busway, or electrified buses, and/or express El Monte Busway type service?

My version of the Gold line is expensive but it has real purpose - it will get a substantial number of people out of their cars. It will create an adequate return on the high cost of the investment. It serves locations people in the Valley and the region actually go to. It would be one piece of a line that would connect all of the major job centers north of Hollywood: Downtown Pasadena, Downtown Glendale, the studios, downtown Burbank, Ventura and Warner Center. Just based on that alone you can expect it to be among the top rail lines in the system.

sorry about the thread getting moved... if you knew the way that I move threads, you would know how I accidently hit one by mistake.

A second version of the yet-to-be-launched website for Get L.A. Moving can be seen here (http://glam.fminus.com/index.php). It has a new design and incorporates Wordpress blogging software, as well as a "Map Quickview" feature on pages throughout the site.

I love the layout.

hmm... on second read, perhaps i should not have signed-up just yet

Color subway commuters confused, but o.k
The Red Line is the Red Line to N. Hollywood but it's now the Purple Line to Western Avenue.By Angie Green, Times Staff Writer
February 7, 2007

http://www.latimes.com/media/thumbnails/mapimage/2007-02/27778228.gif


It's not that Metro Rail commuters didn't know the subway has color-coded routes. They called off colors used on the rail system with ease. But the color purple — that got them stuck.
"Purple? There is no Purple Line," said commuter Edson Menjivar, 18. "There's blue, there's red, there's gold and green, but no purple."

"Purple Line?" asked a puzzled Dan Kaufman, 27, when asked about the route he was on. "This is the Red Line."

He and other stumped riders on a recent afternoon didn't know it, but they were aboard the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's new Metro Purple Line, previously the Red Line.

The Red Line had been two lines, both starting at Union Station. At Wilshire and Vermont, the line split, with one leg running to North Hollywood and a second, shorter section continuing along Wilshire Boulevard and ending at Western Avenue.

The leg to Wilshire and Western is now the Purple Line. The MTA decided to change the name last August but just last month began quietly changing some of its maps and brochures. Maps in the stations show the Purple Line, but those inside the train cars don't.

But that should change this month, said Maya Emsden, who oversees the MTA's creative services division that creates the Metro maps. No additional money is being spent on introducing the Purple Line; changes to the maps will occur on MTA's regular schedule for printing new ones, she said.

Los Angeles was the only subway system in the world that had lines with different destinations using the same name, Emsden said.

"People were like, 'Why do you have two lines with the same names?' 'How do you know where you are going? '" Emsden said.
So to reduce confusion, the Purple Line was created — or colored in. It was a correction long overdue, Emsden said.

Colors have long befuddled the MTA. When original plans were made for the route from Union Station to Mid-Wilshire in the early 1990s, it was called the Orange Line. But the MTA turned the name over to Orange County after officials there requested it. But Orange County residents voted against a rail line, and now there is a bus line in the San Fernando Valley by that name.

And last year after months of debate, MTA officials declined to pick a color for the 8 1/2 -mile light-rail line between downtown Los Angeles and Culver City. They named it the Expo Line.

But until more commuters hear about the Purple Line, riders such as Takeela Beal of Los Angeles may keep referring to it as "the short Red Line."

A few commuters said the name change may help newcomers or tourists navigating the Metro train system, which goes to North Hollywood, Pasadena, Mid-Wilshire, Norwalk, Long Beach and Redondo Beach.

But most said the change will make little difference to them.

"Unless it has to do with some L.A. Lakers thing" with the Gold Line and Purple Line, Kaufman said.*


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
angie.green@latimes.com

Ooooooooops my bad!

...

Color subway commuters confused, but o.k
The Red Line is the Red Line to N. Hollywood but it's now the Purple Line to Western Avenue.By Angie Green, Times Staff Writer
February 7, 2007

Los Angeles was the only subway system in the world that had lines with different destinations using the same name, Emsden said.


That's actually not true. Philadelphia's SEPTA subway has a Broad Street Line (below in orange) that branches off into two different destinations:

http://urbanrail.net/am/phil/philadelphia-map.gif

They call the shorter branch of the line the "Ridge Spur."

House votes to repeal law blocking subway construction on L.A.'s Westside
Rep. Henry Waxman persuades lawmakers that a ban on federal funding for tunneling, which he pushed in 1985, should now be lifted. The move eliminates an obstacle to extending the Red Line.
By Richard Simon, Times Staff Writer
5:57 PM PST, February 7, 2007

WASHINGTON — Two decades ago, Rep. Henry A. Waxman wrote into law a ban on the use of federal funds to build a subway tunnel in the Fairfax district of Los Angeles, worried that construction could trigger an underground gas explosion.

On Wednesday, the Los Angeles Democrat — now convinced that new technology could make drilling safe — persuaded the House to repeal his 1985 law, removing a major political obstacle to extending the Red Line to the Westside.

The one-page bill passed on a voice vote.

The Senate is likely to follow suit soon, and President Bush is expected to sign the repeal into law.

Roger Snoble, chief executive officer of Los Angeles County's Metropolitan Transportation Authority, said the measure "opens the possibility of securing federal money to extend our subway westward to help alleviate the area's crushing traffic congestion."

A subway extension from its western terminus at Wilshire Boulevard and Western Avenue to the ocean about 13 miles away would cost at least $4.8 billion and require years of planning, design and construction. Securing federal funds at a time of massive budget deficits and fierce competition for dollars will also be no easy task.

"There is still much work to do before the subway can be extended," Rep. Diane Watson (D-Los Angeles) said in a statement after the vote.

Waxman sought the tunneling ban after more than 20 people were injured in a methane gas explosion at a West 3rd Street clothing store.

But with traffic congestion growing worse, local officials led by Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa asked him to reconsider the ban.

"Very few issues affect the quality of life in Los Angeles more than traffic gridlock," Villaraigosa said in a statement. "Getting stuck in traffic is more than just an inconvenience — it keeps us away from our families, it pollutes our environment and it costs our economy. Building a subway to the sea will get Los Angeles moving again."

Villaraigosa noted that Los Angeles ranks first in the country in the amount of time that drivers spend in traffic jams — about 93 hours a year.

Waxman said he agreed to repeal his earlier bill after an independent panel of experts "indicated that technologies have been developed that could make tunneling in the area safe."

A similar repeal measure was approved by the House last year, but died in the Senate in the waning days of Congress.

California Sens. Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein, both Democrats, this week introduced legislation to repeal the 1985 tunneling ban.

"It's time to make this project a reality," Feinstein said of the extension.

richard.simon@latimes.com

I'm glad this is in the LA Times so I can show my dad, I've been keeping him up to date on most of this.

Any expectation for how long it should take before it is completely passed?

I'm glad this is in the LA Times so I can show my dad, I've been keeping him up to date on most of this.

Any expectation for how long it should take before it is completely passed?

A few weeks usually. The real wait is funding, but having Madame Speaker, who is a Californian, is a good thing.

I wanna cry.......:cry:

yeeesssaaaa!!!!

A Barbara Walters moment and the Dean scream. Who says mass transit doesn't elicit strong emotions.

I still think making t-shirts is a great idea. And where I work, customers always see me and comment on things I wear. I could put players of the map with website info at places like The Smell in downtown or random places on the promenade.

EDIT: Look whats my new desktop pic :-)

YES YES YES! My philosophy is to let a thousand flowers bloom. Don't wait for me to give the okay. Just do it! All I ask is that the website be included so while we're educating people about the benefits of mass transit we're providing a table for them to come together online.

We want and need t-shirts, screen savers, pictures. Sign-up to the google group (http://groups.google.com/group/getlamoving) and maybe you'll find someone already working on the same project.

I love the layout.

Yea, Jason has really done a hell of a job. And the feedback from the working group has been so great.

I've updated the not-launched site with the latest content (from Damien):

Get L.A. Moving Beta Site (http://glam.fminus.com/index.php).

The intro has been changed, pages for The Plan: Construction, The Plan: Case Studies, and the About Us page now have content, as well as little updates elsewhere.

Poke around, and talk about any bugs you find or suggestions for content.

edit.

I'm proud to announce http://www.GetLAMoving.com is now live. Please visit the site, sign-up, tell us what you think and give thanks to Jason Law (numble). And again, we still need some help with web programming, pictures, etc.

The LA Times highlighted to effort today, although unfortunately there was more focus on me (and not even my professional grassroots mobilization background) and not the goal of the Get LA Moving plan, website and organization.

Fantasy maps re-imagine public transit (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-maps1may01,1,2789228.story?page=1&ctrack=1&cset=true&coll=la-headlines-california)
Amateur cartographers are creating ambitious conceptual designs of an L.A. dotted with an East Coast-style rail network.
By Tony Barboza
Times Staff Writer

May 1, 2007

Some transit advocates attend meetings. Others write letters. Some even picket outside subway stations.

Numan Parada makes maps.

At a time when a subway-to-the-sea along Wilshire Boulevard is still far from a reality, he is plotting it on a map anyway.

With the click of a mouse, he puts a notch next to the Getty Center on the rail line he envisions branching off Wilshire Boulevard to follow the 405 Freeway corridor to the San Fernando Valley.

"That's a good place for a station," he said. "It's an obvious traffic generator."

In the same way, he has mapped out on his computer nearly a dozen other rail stations along light-rail and subway lines that don't exist, from La Habra to Chatsworth.

He and other amateur cartographers are re-imagining public transportation in Los Angeles by crafting ambitious conceptual maps that depict the county blanketed with an East Coast-style rail network.

Their transit networks look convincingly like the stylized, color-coded visual aids posted in city buses and trains.

But the fantasy maps depict future transportation routes even their creators acknowledge will probably never be built.

"Most people are dismissive of seeing such a big system on paper," said Parada, 25, whose conceptual map of a future Los Angeles features a nearly omnipresent grid of rail lines (thetransitcoalition.us/ConNP01.htm).

"While I don't sincerely think a system like this is realistic to build, I think it can give hope," he said.

Critics say the maps are misguided; rail is too expensive and ill-suited for a city as decentralized as Los Angeles.

But the maps, circulated online and created in the midst of what many are calling an unprecedented level of concern about traffic and public transportation, have also drawn admirers from within the county transportation agency, such as Neil Sadler, lead designer for Metro's design studio.

"This looks like the London tube map," he said after examining Parada's map.

It should, said Parada, of Tujunga. He paid $23 for the Johnston font used on the London Underground map to give his fantasy map an air of authenticity.

Parada started sketching maps of the San Fernando Valley when he was 13, and by the time he was in high school, he had upgraded to using a Paint program on his computer to design small transportation maps.

He now works for the Transit Coalition, a public transportation advocacy group based out of a strip-mall storefront-turned-office in Sylmar.

And though he tries to take the bus whenever he can, he sometimes uses his family's minivan to get around. He longs for the day when he can replace it with a subway or light-rail ride.

For Damien Goodmon, 25, living in the Boston area as a college student helped him decide to design a conceptual transportation map of L.A. County (www.getlamoving.com).

Goodmon, who grew up in Jefferson Park and Leimert Park, said he saw "most of Los Angeles through the window of a bus," but mostly because it was an affordable way for his family to get around.

It was as a government student at Harvard University that he said he first experienced a community designed for pedestrians, where public transportation — especially Boston's transit system, known as the T — was effective and used by people of all backgrounds. "I realized the center of that experience was the rail system," he said.

That led him to take a break from his studies to craft his own transit map last fall. The plan, circulated on public transit blogs and websites, would cost an estimated $31 billion to $38 billion, and add 378 miles of new rail to the existing system, he said.

Transportation experts said such an extensive network would cost several times that.

Goodmon's neatly designed map shows more than a dozen light-rail and subway lines crisscrossing the county's major avenues and boulevards. He gleaned many of the ideas from abandoned transportation proposals on the shelves of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's library.

Some of his proposed lines include a Vermont Avenue subway from Glendale to San Pedro, a Ventura Boulevard subway from Chatsworth to Pasadena, and a line from Hollywood to Torrance, with a stop just a block from the Leimert Park cafe where he designed the map.

Goodmon's and Parada's maps and others like them have played a part in sparking debate over what form public transportation should take in the future.

Not everyone is pro-subway. Transit boosters' alternate ideas range from the revival of streetcars to dedicated bus lanes. Some champion a monorail system overlaying current freeways.

Only a few corridors in the county are dense enough for rail to be financially realistic, said Genevieve Giuliano, a professor at the USC School of Policy, Planning and Development.

"Instead of trying to overlay 19th century rail technology on a 21st century city, we should be reinventing the bus system, providing exclusive lanes for buses in places where we need the capacity to move people," she said. "That's a whole lot cheaper than building billions of dollars of rail."

Metro's most forward-looking map shows only a general outline of anticipated transit corridors 20 years in the future, and no specific station locations, said Brad McAllester, head of long-range planning.

"When people look at our maps, they ask us, 'Are you actually going to build it? Is it funded?' We actually have to answer that," he said.

Matt Barrett, head librarian for the Metro library, who helped Goodmon access studies he used to lay out his map, acknowledged that the amateur proposals were fantasies, but suggested that their idealism might help keep government from becoming complacent.

"There's always been gadflies that come through and have ideas for exactly what we should build and how, but these are young, motivated people who have new tools available to them," he said. "Technology allows people to make more credible pitches."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tony.barboza@latimes.com

"Instead of trying to overlay 19th century rail technology on a 21st century city, we should be reinventing the bus system, providing exclusive lanes for buses in places where we need the capacity to move people," she said. "That's a whole lot cheaper than building billions of dollars of rail."

Yes, more gas! :banana: USC just seems to love any mention of rail don't they? :ohno:

Yes, more gas! :banana: USC just seems to love any mention of rail don't they? :ohno:

Libertarians should be taken out and shot! :banana:

Libertarians should be taken out and shot! :banana:

As long as liberals are afraid of guns, libertarians will survive.

so was that guy only talking about light rail? but come on, how is a subway 19th century technology? i know they were invented then. but its not like we run steam-engined trains threw tubes. most subways look way more high tech then any bus or car. i really hope there are not alot of people listening to that man

ya that 19th cnetury technology line was amazingly funny. Busses are soooooooo cool and new tech! lets use a mode of transport that gets stuck in traffic! doesnt it sound great! where do they find these idiots?

As long as liberals are afraid of guns, libertarians will survive.

But if you shoot a Libertarian, it's no big deal. Nobody loves them anyway!

Why do Libertarians support legalized prostitution?
BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN EVER GET LAID!!!! :lol:

damien, as a resident (unfortunately) of the Antelope Valley, please take off the palmdale airport stop on the AV metrolink stop. Its kind of worthless.

damien, as a resident (unfortunately) of the Antelope Valley, please take off the palmdale airport stop on the AV metrolink stop. Its kind of worthless.


Hey Metrolink are double decker, i just found out. So they stay in Palmdale!!!!

If you didn't receive the announcement via email, it's because I don't have your email address, which means you haven't signed-up for updates on the website yet (http://glam.fminus.com/signupform.php). Nonetheless, here the update:

SATURDAY: The Get LA Moving Plan Presentation

It's been an exciting couple of weeks for the Get LA Moving grassroots organization. Our long awaited website launch was complimented by a flattering and notable article in the Los Angeles Times (http://glam.fminus.com/blog/2007/05/01/pick-up-an-la-times-today.html) that highlighted some aspects of my personal research efforts to devise the line alignments. But even more newsworthy is the remarkable voluntary contributions to the GLAM Plan by dozens of people who we are equally committed to devising solutions to our mobility crisis. Some individuals are just regular citizens with limited knowledge of transit and others are transit engineers and urban planners. Collectively, we have made the map better and the plan stronger.

The many sign-ups and offers to help following the article provide a great opportunity to take this discussion about how rail is our silver bullet into every corner of the county. Together we will demand our political leadership plan long-term and give Angelinos what we want and what we need to continue growing in a 21st century economy.

If you haven't yet, please officially sign-up (http://glam.fminus.com/signupform.php) for updates and tell your friends about GetLAMoving.com (http://www.getlamoving.com).

The website is one of many important resources in our effort, and eventually we would like to see it progress into an comprehensive activist-oriented tool that will allow us to capture and maximize the current desire by LA county residents to Get LA Moving. Our strategic web outreach plan is available for everyone to see on our blog (http://glam.fminus.com/blog/2007/05/01/the-getlamovingcom-action-plan.html), so please weigh in and tell us where you think there is room for improvement. Several important features on the existing site are not yet operational, so we're going to need the help of the many talented web developers who signed up to bring them to fruition.

The next Get LA Moving Plan Presentation: TOMORROW Saturday May 12 2:15 PM!

This Saturday at 2:15 pm I will present an updated version of the Get LA Moving Plan before the Southern California Transit Advocates monthly meeting on the 4th floor of Angelus Plaza in Downtown LA (255 S. Hill St, Los Angeles, CA 90012 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=255+S.+Hill+Street,+Los+Angeles,+CA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=27.643082,61.611328&layer=&ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=34.052375,-118.248532&spn=0.00704,0.02208&om=1)). Please come to the meeting to see the presentation and engage in a healthy dialogue about the future of our region with some of the most seasoned mass transit advocates in Southern California.

All the best,
Damien Goodmon
Primary Author, Get LA Moving Plan
getlamoving@gmail.com

are they going to build the subway to the sea on wilshare blvd i think its a good idea because i think the new mayor said he pledged to begin construction on the welsire subway when will the construction begin?

We still need the ban on tunneling to be lifted in the Fairfax area. Then there's funding, EIR, and awarding the construction contract. It will be a while until it begins.

are they going to build the subway to the sea on wilshare blvd i think its a good idea because i think the new mayor said he pledged to begin construction on the welsire subway when will the construction begin?



^ Eventually!

Rail Construction Near USC to Begin
04/25/07
Most work on the $640-million project linking downtown L.A. with Culver City on Exposition Boulevard will take place at night.

By Eddie North-Hager
Construction of the Exposition Light Rail segment that will curve around the southeastern border of USC will begin on May 14, the Monday after commencement.

“At our request, they didn’t start earlier,” said Curtis D. Williams, vice president of campus development and facilities management.

The $640-million project starts near Seventh Street and Wilshire Boulevard, traveling south along Flower Street and then west along Exposition Boulevard until it reaches Culver City.

Most of the summer construction will focus on the section where the train will go underground – on Flower south of Jefferson Boulevard as it turns west onto Exposition until Pardee Way, said A. Bingham Cherrie, USC associate vice president of planning.

“People need to take into account the construction and try to avoid the whole area this summer,” Williams said.

Most of the work will take place at night. Steel plates will cover the construction during the day to keep traffic moving. Streets should remain open, but lanes, including some interstate off- and on-ramp lanes, could be closed. There may be some road closures at night.

The underground section “is being called the critical path as it will take the longest to complete,” Williams said.

The major above-ground work is scheduled to end by Labor Day. Then actual tunnel excavation begins but should cause fewer traffic headaches.

“This is all in a perfect world,” Cherrie said.

Construction in the median along Exposition will continue into the fall, but Cherrie said there always will be safe access between campus and the L.A. Memorial Coliseum during football games. When the line is finished, pedestrian crossings will remain at Trousdale Parkway, Watt Way and Pardee Way.

Some of the utilities on Exposition already are being relocated to prepare the site. Much of the metered parking along that boulevard was removed earlier this semester.

USC also sold two small parcels of land to the Metropolitan Transit Authority to accommodate for the train. The northeast corner of Vermont Avenue and Exposition will become a right turn lane, and a parking lot near the Tyler Building will house a power plant for the train.

Phase 1 of the rail line that will end in Culver City is scheduled for completion in 2010. Stations are planned at Flower and Jefferson, Trousdale and Exposition, and Vermont and Exposition. There currently is no funding for the Trousdale station, so it is shown as “optional” on planning maps.
“We are continuing to work with the Exposition Metro Line Construction Authority staff with issues that might arise during design and construction,” Cherrie said.

The line will provide another link between USC and downtown Los Angeles, which is in the midst of a renaissance.

Thousands of lofts, combined with Staples Center and the under-construction entertainment and hotel complex LA Live, are transforming the area just north of campus. In addition, the Galen Center, USC’s sports and performing arts venue, and University Gateway, a planned retail and apartment complex, are destination locations.

The Exposition line eventually will continue to Santa Monica, with the final link made during a second construction phase.

Just seeing that map nearly gave me an orgasm. :nuts: If only the Bronze Line existed today...it'd make my jumps from UCLA to LAX much smoother. :cry:

damien, as a resident (unfortunately) of the Antelope Valley, please take off the palmdale airport stop on the AV metrolink stop. Its kind of worthless.

Hey MetroBoy, I never knew you were also an AV resident! Whereabouts do you reside in the this (i.e. boring) side of the San Gabriels?

... San Gabriel's, Huh? :dunno: What happened to the Antelope Valley?

... San Gabriel's, Huh? :dunno: What happened to the Antelope Valley?

Was referring to the San Gabriel Mountains that seperate those of us stuck in the AV w/ the rest of you guys in the basin. :p

^ Gotcha.... Hey great news the heat is coming and the AV gets pretty warm. Are you for the Summer????:lol:

for the summer? because there are community groups opposing summer in that nether world of the AV

i hear that by 2015 the Rail network in Los angeles will be like NYC and Chicago is this true and if it is thats awsome go LA

finally it will take away the Smog thats going around

Hopefully it will be much better than Chicago's. The rail system their excluding commuter is a bit overrated.

overrated???? i don't get it

Chicago's el trains are well known as overcrowded and severely underfunded. I think this is what klamedia is referring to.

[QUOTE=Songoten2554;13313023]i hear that by 2015 the Rail network in Los angeles will be like NYC and Chicago is this true and if it is thats awsome go LA


^ Absolutely.... the only thing we have to work on is getting some nicer smoother modern looking trains. So the circle can be complete!!!!

this post is why i joined. i believe in the dream of an excellent rail system in LA.

map gave me goosebumps when i saw that i can go across town to my school EEK!

I heard that Damien was at the meeting today speaking out against the racist claims. Good job, hopefully your common sense will pull through.

Did anyone get to go to the meeting? Really would like to hear about it.

I'd buy this. Wouldn't you?
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2413/getlamovingshirtcb7.jpg

^^ Are you selling them? How much?

^^ Maybe as an undershirt..."lol:

I'd buy this. Wouldn't you?
http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2413/getlamovingshirtcb7.jpg


I WANT IT! I WANT IT!

^^ Are you selling them? How much?


^ For you let's say $100 bucks...

I WANT IT! I WANT IT!

I only want it if it says "Fuck Ferney" on the bottom. :lol:

Nah, not selling them right now. I just emailed Damien about it yesterday.

Think about how both the London Underground and the New York City transit system have successfully used their subway maps to market t-shirts and other merchandise. I see no reason why we can't start now.

It would look better wihtout the border and downtown insert image thingy on the corner. And it the map was larger to cover your whole chest.

It would look better wihtout the border and downtown insert image thingy on the corner. And it the map was larger to cover your whole chest.

I agree. It was just meant to spark a little interest in the idea, that's all.

Nah, not selling them right now. I just emailed Damien about it yesterday.

Think about how both the London Underground and the New York City transit system have successfully used their subway maps to market t-shirts and other merchandise. I see no reason why we can't start now.


^ So who's going to cash in on the profits, MTA?

Nah, not selling them right now. I just emailed Damien about it yesterday.

Think about how both the London Underground and the New York City transit system have successfully used their subway maps to market t-shirts and other merchandise. I see no reason why we can't start now.

But this is a "fantasy" map. I'd wear it but not because of NYC and London, they already have their systems.

That would be really sweet. I hope LA can upgrade their transit so it is as effective as DC's is for our area. It would really solidify the separate business districts and promote connective growth. I know that the DC area sprawls a lot and smart growth along Metro lines is making the urban "suburbs" in MD and VA much better. Good luck guys!

Thanx "ajoutz"!

Thanx "ajoutz"!


^ Bless you (K)...... :lol:

Thanx "ajoutz"!

Haha, well I really want to move there after college!, and it would be nice to get around a little bit without a car.

Haha, well I really want to move there after college!, and it would be nice to get around a little bit without a car.

Have you given any thought into where you might possibly want to live? Mobility in LA really just depends on where you are.

Have you given any thought into where you might possibly want to live? Mobility in LA really just depends on where you are.

Not yet, but when I visit my uncle in Colorado Springs I am hoping to get a ticket to fly to LA for a few days. I haven't been in a few years but the last time I went I had a great experience. Also, I already did most of the touristy stuff so I'm hoping to check out the "real city." If I have my way I can get a job with my uncle who owns a few tech-firms in the city. It's been my dream for a few years.

Haha, well I really want to move there after college!, and it would be nice to get around a little bit without a car.

Join the discussion on the Car-Free/Car-Lite thread.

Have you given any thought into where you might possibly want to live? Mobility in LA really just depends on where you are.

That's true. Though if you happen to live within 10 minutes of a Wal-Mart or Claim Jumper, then forget it.

^ For you let's say $100 bucks...

If that's the case then I only can afford 1/8 of one.:)

We need $$$$$

I still want the taxes to reflect inflation to the time they taxes were passed. Imagine how much more money we would have.

regarding the shirt..

you know, if you guys just take the map file you can have it printed on a shirt at a number of websites like "uberprints.com" for like around 20 bucks, delivered.

i believe they should extend the metrorail lines in Los angeles as it is a good thing if they do

the metro purple line will be extended to the pacific ocean and to santa barbara or so i heard is there more news or pics about this

Purple Line to Santa Barbara? I think you mean Santa Monica.

Say, I haven't heard from Damien in a long time.

i don't know alot of the areas in cailfronia but santa monica and to the sea where the purple line will go on wishare blvd is there any constunction there yet

and will the Green Line go to LAX and beyond i want to know i heard of an extension planned like that

hello anyone here?

No and no

yes i think it will be a humangous rail network in the future and its growing huge

L.A. could look to Denver for its transit template
By Steve Hymon, Times Staff Writer
August 6, 2007


In November 2004, voters in the Denver metro region went to the polls and, much to the surprise of some political observers, decided to tax themselves to begin the nation's largest ongoing expansion of mass transit.

If all goes as planned, the Denver region is expected to build 119 miles of light rail and commuter rail by 2016. Among the projects are six new lines from Denver to the suburbs, including one to the airport, the extension of two other light-rail lines and a new rapid transit bus line.

It's a relatively unusual approach. Constrained by a lack of money, most cities build one or maybe two lines at a time. In Denver, they're betting the entire system can be built at once.

As with any massive public works project, there are reasons for skepticism. The projected cost of the program — called FasTracks — has grown from $4.7 billion to $6.2 billion because of rising construction costs, before construction has started. Transit officials and politicians continue to insist that each of the new lines will be built, but cuts will have to be made, perhaps in the form of smaller stations or lines that have only one track.

Denver's willingness to invest in itself is not surprising. In the past three decades, the city has built three new downtown sports venues, a stunning art museum, a 1.5-mile downtown promenade with free shuttles and a sprawling international airport.

A new mini-city is being built on the site of the old airport. And two rivers that slice through town have been restored.

We're going to jettison the usual Q & A format this week and instead focus on a single question:

Question: Can the Southland learn something about transit from Denver?

Answer: Yes.

In 2003, John Hickenlooper was elected mayor of Denver. A longtime civic activist and owner of a downtown microbrewery, Hickenlooper had never held or sought elected office.

He ran on his vision for Denver's future: a vibrant business-friendly city with more parks and more mass transit.

The FasTracks plan qualified for the ballot during Hickenlooper's first year in office.

Although it wasn't his idea, Hickenlooper seized on the program and, using his mayoral bully pulpit, began rounding up support from the suburbs.

"We had 32 different mayors in an eight-county area — that's small by metro L.A. standards, but it's still an area the size of Connecticut," Hickenlooper said. "We got all of them to support this. Republicans, Democrats, big and small cities. That took a lot of talk. That's where my years in the restaurant business came in."

It was not an easy campaign. Colorado's governor came out against the plan, saying it wasn't a sensible way to get the region moving. The Rocky Mountain News, one of Denver's two major newspapers, editorialized against FasTracks a full two months before election day, making a similar argument.

"For its staggering cost," said the newspaper, FasTracks "will do surprisingly little to actually ease congestion."

In the end, however, FasTracks won with 58% of voters agreeing to a four-tenths of a penny sales tax increase, bringing Denver's sales tax to 7.6 cents on the dollar. (It's 8.25 cents in Los Angeles County.) Unlike California, where a two-thirds majority would have been necessary for passage, Colorado requires a simple majority.

One question left lingering from the campaign three years ago is what, if anything, FasTracks will do about traffic, which has worsened considerably as prosperous suburbs have risen in the prairie surrounding Denver. Of the metro region's 2.6 million residents, about 566,000 live in the city's limits.

Proponents of FasTracks concede that rail service may not take many cars off the road, but they argue that it will remove just enough vehicles to keep traffic from becoming gridlocked.

Cal Marsella, the general manager of the Regional Transportation District, which is building FasTracks, can readily tick off travel times he uses to sell people on the program.
In 2025, for example, he says the drive from the airport to downtown will take 48 minutes by car and 39 minutes on the train, and the drive from Longmont — a far northern suburb — to Denver will take 133 minutes by car versus 61 minutes by train.

Politicians make much the same arguments.

"We frame this as giving people a choice," said Steve Burkholder, the mayor of suburban Lakewood, which will get rail service as part of FasTracks. "Will this take cars off the road? I doubt it. As you grow as an area, congestion will grow."

Perhaps one of the most important aspects of FasTracks is that area politicians such as Hickenlooper and Burkholder make no bones about the fact they believe the rail program will encourage more growth.

The new rail lines follow existing freight rail corridors and therefore bypass a lot of neighborhoods where people already live. The downside: Most people will live some distance from the stations. The upside: It's a chance to build new "smart growth" or "transit-oriented developments" near the stations.

The city of Denver is aggressively drawing up new zoning codes to encourage residential and job growth near future stations, and many of the surrounding cities are doing the same.

Boulder, for example, is taking under-used industrial land near its rail and bus stations and planning to build an 11-acre transit village.

In the meantime, the FasTracks program is putting a heavy emphasis on parking and is calling for 21,000 parking spots at the new stations.

"A lot of the money for this is coming from suburban areas, and I can't run enough buses to get all those people to the stations," Marsella said. "My attitude is if I can get enough people to drive two miles to a park-and-ride, I'm declaring victory and going home."

To find another region that built a lot of mass transit at one time, you need look no further than — Los Angeles County.

In 1980 and again in 1990, voters here approved half-cent sales tax increases to build mass transit. In turn, since 1990 that money has helped produce about 73 miles of light rail and subway in the county and fostered creation of the Metrolink commuter rail system that spans the Southland.

The Orange Line busway also opened in 2005 in the San Fernando Valley, and two more light-rail lines are under construction.

The problem in Los Angeles County, at least, is that the expansive rail system promised to voters in 1980 was never fully built.

With most of the sales tax money — about $1.4 billion a year — committed, significant holes remain in the rail system, such as the lack of a line connecting downtown to the Westside.

The public policy question for Los Angeles is whether the region should follow Denver's lead and try to finish the entire system at once.

If so, would voters here commit to another tax hike?

Not everyone believes rail is the answer. Ryan Snyder, a private transportation consultant who lives on the Westside, argues that more frequent and widespread bus service would serve the most people, better mimic the door-to-door convenience of private vehicles and be more cost-effective.

"But it's not sexy," Snyder said.

Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, meanwhile, continues to push for more rail lines. He said in late July that if federal or state money cannot be found for transit, he may bring some type of financing measure to voters.

In Denver, Mayor Hickenlooper said he has no doubt that a greatly expanded rail system would benefit his region for the next 100 years by curbing gridlock and creating communities near transit stations.

He also believes that such a system would work in Southern California and thinks "tens of thousands" of people in the L.A. area want to live in denser developments around transit.

"L.A.," Hickenlooper said, "just hasn't gotten to the tipping point."

^^It's gotten to the tipping point and it's over that. We've voted for the infrastructure on more than one occasion, but it's small groups of people who are holding us back.

I'm not sure if its a group of people any longer. BH, Weho, SM are all for the Purple Line ext holding private meetings on placement of the stations, we have a mayor and county supervisory board that are for it(except Antonivich), Waxman is all for rescending the ban.....I think at this point it is a lack of matching federal $$$ that would be available if not for Iraq et al. What is surprising to me is that even within the climate of consent decrees and the LA Times running monthly articles on the grave situation of traffic but offering no solution and even going further and printing condescending articles on any real rapid transit improvements in LA....the MTA somehow has built 73 miles of rail! I don't care what anyone says about it not being of any help to them, 73 miles at this time in American history where it has become a fad to watch our national infrastructure crumble is quite remarkable. Should we have more grade seperation? Yes. Should it be more extensive? Yes. By 2010 we will have 89 miles of light and heavy rail, not to mention bus rapid transit lines and the ever increasing rapid bus. Is this enough? Of course not. But I think they've got it wrong. The tipping point won't come from traffic(that's already happened), the tipping point will come when more and more people realize that a line has finally come to their neighborhood.

...speaking of rail, what's the status on the Expo Line. Any updates?

^^Phase I is under construction, phase II is in jeopardy now because of funding cuts from Sacramento.

^^Phase I is under construction, phase II is in jeopardy now because of funding cuts from Sacramento.


Phase II is crucial to the sustainability of the westside. With the Sears in Santa Monica as it's terminus, it opens the door for the Green line to shoot North through LAX to Santa Monica. These are too important not to happen..

Well then write to your representative in Sacramento. Transit is basically getting screwed because of the debt, and it's the only area that is getting shortchanged. Hell, even the entertainment industry is getting more tax breaks.

Do you think they even read the letters? Our Governor seems dead set on pushing only highway construction. Until we get someone in that position who will push for alternatives... I kind of get the feeling that it is hopeless.

If you get enough people to do it, then yes, it will do something. A good example is internet radio. Now many congresspersons are set on protecting it from grotesque licensing fees.

There was an article about the Expo Line in the CA section of the LA Times today.

And actually, the government does read letters. I sent one to Ahnuld a few months ago asking him to come to our school and meet our Austrian exchange students. The government office did reply to me, but they told me that he was too busy to come, but they sent their best wishes and hoped that I got good grades this school year.

I've never gotten a response from any politician. You must be really lucky.

Hell, even the entertainment industry is getting more tax breaks.

^^ which surprisingly bashes the government. how is this world even barely functional? pretty much everyone is for our transit expansion and we aren't getting it (nearly as fast as we'd like). it's like yes is no and no is yes

Imagine Los Angeles with a few of these lines running all across town....

I can see (K) with a permanent woody...:lol:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e124/fnee1901/train.jpg

Oh stop! Not just me........most of us would be pretty excited!

It's kinda sad that I'll be able to get around LA the way it's supposed to be when I'm like 50 or 60. I might even die before then.

It's kinda sad that I'll be able to get around LA the way it's supposed to be when I'm like 50 or 60. I might even die before then.


^ yeah think about generations...

that is so gay. we are the generation obsessed with making LA a truly world class city with a better, bustling, tall, dense downtown and a really great public transportation, but we will probably never see it completely finished. The government keeps cutting down on our funding. Ummm...ya...i think LA needs more help on everything than any other city in CA.

you know what i think would be great for L.A.? an extensive network of maglev tracks that run through L.A., throughout the IE, down to San Deigo, and out to Vegas. the price would be astronomical though.

not making fun of you or anything, but ur name looks like an AIM Screenname or an Xbox Live Gamertag.

^^ it was my playstation screenname, so that makes sense. no offence taken.

o ok. those "x"s give it away that it was used for something like that and that you are a teenager or in your younger twenties...am i right. don't worry im not a perve or anything. i just know these things cus im a teenager.

yeah, your right.

:banana: Elevated maglev and extensive subway construction. All vulnerable to earthquake, but think about all the money we'll get to fix it. It would be a dream, just like the monorail on The Simpsons. Ripping around silently, ( the Disneyland monorail is oldschool but it's pretty quiet ) looking through smoke tinted windows and everyone nicely dressed and clean smelling. And solar powered A/C! I can see them providing their own advertisement as they zoom above the stalled traffic down the center of the freeways, veering off and out over the city when they have to, ending up down the center of Wilshire and other major thoroughfares. It would have a central hub above the ground in eastern South Park, travel along the coast, out to the I.E., through the mountains to Palmdale International. And cost about 200 billion. :banana: :cheers: :banana: :banana: :bash: :cheers: :bash: :banana: :cheers: :banana: :banana: :lol: :cheers: :) :banana: :nuts: :bash: :banana: :banana: :bash: :cheers:

:ohno:

bump

so whats the recent news on the rail system

^^Who knows, Damien's been MIA for a while now.

any news or information on the expansions of the rail system?

^There are two lines under construction right now.

^^

1. Expo Line
2. Gold Line Eastside Extrension
3. Gold Line Montclair Extension (have they started on this one?)

^The Gold Line extension from Pasadena to Montclair is still in the works.

^^ Still in the works.... any idea when the extension begins!

^Nope. Frankly, it's not as important as other projects like securing funding for the second phase of the Expo Line or the Downtown Connector. I have no idea why we're spending millions of dollars on projects that don't really matter and won't really make much of a difference in ridership (Expo Line maybe, but not the Gold Line).

^ True! but MTA has decided that this extension will be extended. I agree the funds should be redirected to the Expo or possibly the Yellow Line.

^Does the proposed Yellow Line stop at the Burbank airport?

^ True! but MTA has decided that this extension will be extended.

A little something for ya from Wikipedia:

Foothill Extension

An extension of the Gold Line eastward from its terminus on the east side of Pasadena (officially called the "Foothill Extension") to the city of Azusa is in the final design stage. On February 28, 2007, the Metro Gold Line Construction Authority voted to approve the Final Environmental Impact Report. Opening of this extension is scheduled in 2010 and a future extension to Montclair opening in 2014[8]. This segment would be entirely above ground, with a small portion in the median of Interstate 210. As of April 2006 a draft environmental impact study and report was submitted, and final FTA project approval is pending[9]; community meetings are being held to gather input on station design and artwork.

No construction funding has been assigned to this project, though funding has been appropriated to continue the design process. Additionally, the construction authority continues to receive operational funding from all of the cities along the proposed alignment. While the extension to Azusa is under the auspices of the construction authority that constructed the Gold Line from Union Station to Pasadena, construction of the other extension from Union Station to East Los Angeles is under the direct control of the LACMTA. The Foothill Extension has strong political support from the governments of multiple cities along its proposed route, while the original segment went through only three jurisdictions (the cities of Los Angeles, South Pasadena and Pasadena). Due to this strong support among the participating cities as well as the area's congressional delegation, eventual construction of the line seems likely, although the project may be pushed back as local Republican congressman David Dreier was the chief supporter of the route for Federal funding. The city of Ontario has joined the group of cities supporting the Gold Line extension citing that the Gold line should make LA/Ontario International Airport its Eastern Terminus, instead of the Montclair Transit station. [10] The LACMTA has already purchased the entire right of way needed for this project. If all of the proposed extensions were constructed, this would be the longest light rail line in the USA at 51 miles.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Gold_Line_Map_%28Future%29.png

^Does the proposed Yellow Line stop at the Burbank airport?


^ No it does not stop @ bob Hope Airport, it should!

^ No it does not stop @ bob Hope Airport, it should!

Really anything that serves the Valley is welcome. The Orange Line is becoming increasingly popular and studies will show that increasing the capacity of the Orange Line would stimulate more ridership on the Red Line. I think it's time for Orange Line service to communities like Porter Ranch, Granada Hills, and Sylmar. After all, Valley residents clog up most of the freeways.

The Gold Line East will have substantial ridership, it goes through East LA , a very transit dependent location, which in turn will boost ridership along the other lines. Expo will have very high ridership in my opinion, probably more than some other small cities entire metros.

^I guess you're right, LASF. We shall see how the Gold Line East does with ridership in 2009. :)

I have no doubt that the Expo Line will be a major success, especially if it goes all the way to Santa Monica.

The Gold Line East will have substantial ridership, it goes through East LA , a very transit dependent location, which in turn will boost ridership along the other lines. Expo will have very high ridership in my opinion, probably more than some other small cities entire metros.


^ Oh yeah Dude! the Eastside extension of the Gold Line will be a huge hit. There's no doubt in my mind that it would surpass the Green Line and possibly the Orange Line in ridership.

As far as the Montclair/Azusa we all know that's going to be a bust!!! Money down the toilet, for sure.

As far as the Montclair/Azusa we all know that's going to be a bust!!! Money down the toilet, for sure.

Yes! Save the money for the Yellow Line!

Yes! Save the money for the Yellow Line!


^ That would be great and all, but realistically it's going to be extended to Montclair eventually. Do you know how much money that's going to cost? I really don't want to think about it....

^ That would be great and all, but realistically it's going to be extended to Montclair eventually. Do you know how much money that's going to cost? I really don't want to think about it....

It's going to cost $1.3 billion. I think the Yellow Line would cost more though.

It's going to cost $1.3 billion. I think the Yellow Line would cost more though.


The 1.3 is only to extend to Azusa, then another 2.5 for Montclair. Such waste of good funds, once again!

As far as the Yellow Line, I'm not too sure what the price tag is that's even of they decide to build it.

The 1.3 is only to extend to Azusa, then another 2.5 for Montclair. Such waste of good funds, once again!

As far as the Yellow Line, I'm not too sure what the price tag is that's even of they decide to build it.

Actually, it's 1.3 for the entire extension from Pasadena to Montclair.

You think that's expensive, wait till you find out the cost for the Purple Line extension...$5 billion!

^ 5 Billion put to good use that will eventually pay for it's self in the long run vs The low ridership Gold Line. I guess MTA did not learn the first time, must take two errors to realize it was a bad decision...

The MTA may go along w/ the Gold Line to Azusa for two reasons:
a) the political will from the communities is their like already planning TOD's for a line that still needs funding
b)The Gold Line needs a yard

^They should consider putting that money toward the Yellow Line. The Yellow Line is a proposal advocated by the citizens. If so many of these citizens are pushing for this Yellow Line, wouldn't it make sense for the MTA to direct funding toward the Yellow Line because they know it'll be money well spent?

where can i find info on this proposed yellow line? or all the lines that they are planning on building?

The 1.3 is only to extend to Azusa, then another 2.5 for Montclair. Such waste of good funds, once again!

As far as the Yellow Line, I'm not too sure what the price tag is that's even of they decide to build it.



its a waste because of the low density but you can blame that prick Drier.

its a waste because of the low density but you can blame that prick Drier.


^ I totally agree that's a waste of funds, but who is Drier btw?

where can i find info on this proposed yellow line? or all the lines that they are planning on building?

the first page of this thread has a map.

i also think the yellow line would be great money put to use. but first, i think they need to concentrate on their putting money into the expo line making sure it gets all the way to santa monica. the westside is just way too crowded. or i guess for the yellow, focus mainly on extending it westward as proposed all the way up to chatsworth. SFV is just impossible to get into and out of anytime of the day.

^ I totally agree that's a waste of funds, but who is Drier btw?

Dreier is the congressman for basically all of the SGV.

Dreier is the congressman for basically all of the SGV.



^ Hm! Figures! I still think the SGV needs to become it's own County. But that's a whole different discussion by it's self.

^ Hm! Figures! I still think the SGV needs to become it's own County. But that's a whole different discussion by it's self.

lol. why is that

Because he doesn't think that the SGV is a part of LA.

^ I totally agree that's a waste of funds, but who is Drier btw?


Its bassically more Pork for Drier's district. John and Ken have had politcal human sacrifises to get him out of office.

Because he doesn't think that the SGV is a part of LA.

hah. but y is that

http://www.mta.net/projects_programs/eastside/ee_destinationsMap.pdf



here's a great map for the eastside goldline expansion I had no idea so much of it was underground.

The cities of Azusa, Duarte and Montclair are all pushing for this line.......I repeat ALREADY beginning to build TOD's around stations that have yet to be built or even decided upon. If the cities of Burbank and Glendale really wanted the Yellow Line you would have heard much more talk about it. Even BH, SM and Weho have been public about getting the Purple Line out to the Westside, as of late. And SM has already targeted the Sears store as a terminus for the Expo line. Burbank and Glendale are just sleepy shallows that will witness the rest of the metro area pass them by. What has Burbank done to encourage transit/pedestrian activity of their Metrolink station?

They have done nothing... and Glendale is the third largest city in the county after LA and Long Beach. On top of that the traffic around the Galleria is chaotic and like if that wasn't enough they are building Americana at Brand a very large complex next to it. A subway station under those two would be key to relieve congestion and parking around the area.

street cars?

They have done nothing... and Glendale is the third largest city in the county after LA and Long Beach. On top of that the traffic around the Galleria is chaotic and like if that wasn't enough they are building Americana at Brand a very large complex next to it. A subway station under those two would be key to relieve congestion and parking around the area.

especially if the yever build that Americana mall.

Robert, Americana is under construction......

what we really need is stops at big malls and places like that. maybe the galleria, dodger stadium, staples center, santa monica pier, either the sherman oaks or south bay gallerias, etc.

will the expo go to Westside Pavilion?

no

^^ but close enough to encourage some kind of expanding TOD from the pavillion no matter if expo goes down venice blvd or along the 10 freeway.

yeah, but the traacks are about two blocks in the middle of a residential area. the stations would have to be there when most of the businesses in taht area are on Pico.

what we really need is stops at big malls and places like that. maybe the galleria, dodger stadium, staples center, santa monica pier, either the sherman oaks or south bay gallerias, etc.

Huh? Their are now 2 lines that will be at Staples Center, the existing Blue Line and the under construction Expo line both at the Pico stop. The terminus of the Expo Line phase 2 will be adjacent to the SM promenade. All of the other locations mentioned don't even have rail running near them or under construction. It's going to be the spots that are along rail lines that are going to be the coveted spots.

The best part of this? The rail that goes to Dodger Stadium.

AHHHH yes!!! $15 bucks a pop is starting to dice me. Could I live long enough to get to Dodger Stadium by Metro? (I'm 30, so that means.?....)

^^ but close enough to encourage some kind of expanding TOD from the pavillion no matter if expo goes down venice blvd or along the 10 freeway.



I wish, but I don't think the home owners would go for that and they'd have to change the zonning. btw the expo and the mall is single family homes.

^^ look at western/vermont

it might not take place immediately, but development will happen nearby a rail transit station before anywhere else now that everyone (including many politicians) is getting smart about urban development within our Greater L.A. Region.

^^Who knows, Damien's been MIA for a while now.

Never missing. Just busy doing rail transit advocacy.

^^Nice to see that you're still around, so what's going on with the site, it hasn't been updated since May.

Let him do his work.
I can see it now.....Mayor Eric Garcetti and Damien Good as a city councilmember or better yet a county supervisor.....yep we'd get some rail yet!

Damien putting in work!

When the BARS go DOWN STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://thetransitcoalition.us/MapsConceptual/NP01-Los%20Angeles.gif

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Source: The Transit Coalition (http://thetransitcoalition.us/ConNP01.htm)

dodger stadium would never allow rail near or at the ballpark but hey we all can have dreams.....

I'm sure that the Dodgers would allow it, they would get so much more attendance if they did that.

ya. i think they would allow it. it would greatly ease the traffic put on the local streets and freeways around the stadium after games.

also, i like how the BLUE line goes to Dodger stadium. :)

I like how that plan goes to the IE/OC/Ventura Counties... it would be cool to take the rail into the city and then take Damien's subway plan to get to a specific area.

i love the london underground-themed fantasy map! great job westsidelife

^ I didn't make that fantasy map.

they would lose money if they allowed it.

they would lose money if they allowed it.

No, the people who run the parking lot would lose the money, the Dodgers don't operate the parking lot.

I was looking at the Lakers' website, and there's no mention of the Blue Line station that exists right in front of the Staples Center. They have a map on the Directions page, and unless I'm missing something, they just left the Pico station off the map. Not one mention of it. :ohno:
http://www.nba.com/lakers/tickets/parking_directions.html

The Clippers on the other hand, have a separate page with public transit info.
http://www.nba.com/clippers/tickets/publictransportation.html

And the Kings give different Metro directions depending on where riders are coming from, which I thought was a nice touch.
http://kings.nhl.com/team/app/?service=page&page=NHLPage&bcid=4182

Building more freeways as a solution for traffic is like treating someone's cocaine addiction with a wider straw.
Or like using gasoline to put out a fire!!!:lol:

I'm sure that the Dodgers would allow it, they would get so much more attendance if they did that.

They already have a free "Dodger Trolley" (really a bus) that takes you from Union Station to the park. It's a cooperation between the MTA and the Dodgers.

I'd LOVE a light rail station at Chavez Ravine.

its true information