The webcams, btw are at http://shardlondonbridge.com
Click 'Visualisation' and then click 'live site cams' in the top right hand corner.

TfL looks at move to Stratford after 2012
(http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23587088-details/TfL+looks+at+move+to+Stratford+after+2012/article.do)Mira Bar-Hillel and Matthew Beard
14.11.08

TRANSPORT for London may play a role in helping to cut the cost of the 2012 Olympics.

TfL is looking for new premises and is holding talks to relocate to Stratford City, the planned £1.4 billion Westfield-owned retail complex adjoining the Olympic Park.

The Olympic Delivery Authority has also held talks to create a temporary 2012 media centre on the same site before TfL moves in after the Games.

According to Estates Gazette, the ODA is interested in taking a short-term lease to house half of the 20,000 journalists due to cover the Games. A giant media centre was planned for Hackney Wick in the west of the park but the proposed £380 million scheme ran into trouble after developer Carillion Igloo failed to raise enough capital.

The ODA is interested in moving half the 2012 main press centre to the Stratford City to house print journalists. The deal to have TfL move into Stratford City after the Games is being brokered by the Government as Westfield was concerned about offering a short 18-month lease to house print journalists.

Another possibility is that TfL's move to Stratford City would be a fallback position in case the Shard of Glass at London Bridge does not get built. TfL has prelet 200,000 sq ft in the Shard.

The webcams, btw are at http://shardlondonbridge.com
Click 'Visualisation' and then click 'live site cams' in the top right hand corner.

Excellent! Thanks for this. The aerial view is awesome!
It really gives you a great sense of the site and it's surroundings, which I couldn't fully appreciate before.

Another possibility is that TfL's move to Stratford City would be a fallback position in case the Shard of Glass at London Bridge does not get built. TfL has prelet 200,000 sq ft in the Shard.

Is that confirmed by TfL or is it speculation on the part of the witch-which-must-not-be-named? Judging by the word 'possibility' I'd go with the latter.

It's wishful thinking on her part, she has hated this tower

One of the cranes has come down today.

Good news! The end is nigh for Southwark Towers!:cheers:

Yep, just think... this thing will be actually u/c in a matter of weeks. Piling is imminent. In fact, they might be starting already (see my earlier post...).

Edit: Also, if you watch the animation on YouTube, a small corner of the site begins piling before the demo ends.

^^
I just love optimism - I just hope you are right! :okay:

http://www.cranesetc.co.uk/cranesetcphotos/shard141108.jpg

Can't believe how quickly its gone! I hope this get's built. Apparently the Russia Tower in Moscow's on hold now which is in some way's good because the Shard will be built before that tower ever see's the light of day.

:wave::goodnight:skull::angel1::goodbye:

:banana:

And I agree about the Russia Tower. I can't believe people (on this forum too!) have said of The Shard "looks too much like Russia Tower" and stuff like that...

But really, we shouldn't be too bothered. This absolutely kills the competition, it will be the best supertall in Europe.

Is that confirmed by TfL or is it speculation on the part of the witch-which-must-not-be-named? Judging by the word 'possibility' I'd go with the latter.

I think its just unfounded speculation. Doesnt TFl take up a lot of office space fragmented accross many different locations? I recall reading somewhere that they needed to a complete review of their office requirements and that the LBT would only be a part of the solution. i expect they could take space in Stratford AND the Shard.

I am feeling quite confident now that this baby is going ahead :)

Wow barely anything left of Southwark Towers. Its getting more exciting by the day!

cranesetcs photo speaks volumes...and one of the cranes is coming down too. Light behind the tarpaulin, 1 floor to go. Meh, excellent!

Just looking at the webcams and the visualisations, the actual station is going to be quite a bit smaller then it currently is? Are they going to redevelop the whole station, including the platforms that are adjacent to the main station which lead to Charing Cross?

Well i know the main station itself will be completely redeveloped after the olympics into something far better than what is there at present because of Thameslink by 2015. But i'm still unclear how it works with the Shards station entrance?

Don't know if this has been posted before but I noticed on my way down to the gym this evening that a large hole has now been punched into the railway arches on St Thomas' Street near to the junction with Bermondsey Street.

I finally got around to taking a photo this morning.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/3034835423_e481f1475e_b.jpg

The photo doesn't really show how much work has gone on behind the arches, a section of the bridge from this hole right down to Top Notch gym has been removed to allow construction of a ramp up into the station.

It looks a right old mess at the moment. A beam has been put in at the top and I really hope that the old bricks will be used to rebuild the section that has been removed. If they use new bricks or concrete I will scream.

^^ that is one impressive hole in the arches there Simon. Top work!!!:nuts:

^^ that is one impressive hole in the arches there Simon. Top work!!!:nuts:

:bowtie: Fascinating stuff eh? :D

this building tops any other building in Northern Europe.

this building tops any other building in Northern Europe.What do you mean by "tops"? If you mean height then actually there are towers in Moscow, considerably further north than London (and yes Moscow is 100% in Europe), that will be taller than LBT. If by "tops" you mean quality then I think it easily beats any other scraper anywhere in Europe - and perhaps the world. However you seem to be referring to top "building" (not just scraper). That's a very ambitious claim given how much superb architecture there is on this continent, in so many styles and forms.

Steel work has now gone up on the concrete anchors that were built opposite the hospital enterance, and they were cutting away at the bus statation roof today.

Does any one know what the steel work is for? perhaps a nwe foot bridge or site office ala Pinnacle

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff329/De1egado/IMG_6570.jpg

A view from above from today.

any effects of the crunch with this 1 eh?

I've been reading about this since about 2001 the rate of progress is unbelievable.

Yes...we do things properly in this country...we are not in Egypt ;)

great pic Delegado.

True.

I dont know much about whats going on in Moscow, but when you compare the Shard to the 3-4 300m+ things they have in the pipeline in La Defense and it's not difficult to pick the winner.

Sorry, I didnt mean to turn this into another 'mine is bigger or better than yours' thing. I just hope they get this one build. Its way better than Bishopsgate too IMO. Different class.

Good pic Delegado

Amazing, just a little stump left. When you see it like this you realise what a limited amount of space the demolition teams had to work in. Remarkable piece of organisation and planning.

A view from above from today.

Where's that pic from? Guys hospital?

Superb pic Delegado, captures the plan relationship of the old tower and station brilliantly.

Steel work has now gone up on the concrete anchors that were built opposite the hospital enterance, and they were cutting away at the bus statation roof today.

Does any one know what the steel work is for? perhaps a nwe foot bridge or site office ala Pinnacle

Yeah I noticed that this morning, not quite sure what it's for but there are signs up saying that the footbridge is closed this coming weekend, so we should find out soon!

Where's that pic from? Guys hospital?

It looks as if its from New London Bridge House.

That picture of London Bridge Stations roof looks almost green! very trend setting! :)

Amazing, just a little stump left. When you see it like this you realise what a limited amount of space the demolition teams had to work in. Remarkable piece of organisation and planning.

I agree with the others, great photo Delegado.

Good point Octoman. For such an enormous project (pun intended) the logistical planning process must have been nightmare!

It's impressive to keep track of - can't wait to see finished! :)

Stratford is a bit far out for TfL.

TfL have already signed up for some space in North Greenwich by the Dome. Surface Transport are in Palestra in Southwark. We also have the pre-let for the Shard and some offices in Victoria.

I don't think Stratford would be popular. Crossrail have taken a few floors at Citigroups tower in Canary Wharf.

I think the most important thing for TfL is being close to the political power centres of Westminster and City Hall. Cheap rents are important though but TfL's rental costs are very competitive already, and, suprisingly they will be lower when TfL corporate go to the Shard as the let there is £38-42 per square foot whilst at Windsor House the current let is £52/53 per square foot.

It's actually cheaper taking 10 floors at London Bridge tower than the 18 floors at Windsor House on Victoria Street.

Was the shard deal got because it was an early pre-let? It was probably Ken's doing wasnt it?

Stratford is a bit far out for TfL.

TfL have already signed up for some space in North Greenwich by the Dome.

They are both the same distance from Central London so I don't see why one is preferable and the other not. From what I remember when Ken was Mayor he wanted TfL to be strung along the Jubilee line so to speak and for it as an organisation to move to places to kickstart regeneration or development projects - e.g Greenwich Peninsula and the Shard.

It's now up to whether Boris feels the same. Probably not. He'll move everyone to Chiswick or somewhere like Bromley.

there's a funny thing about this forum - i see forumers who clearly know shit arguing with people who actually sit in on meetings with boris!

TFL were inquiring about renting office space the floor above where I work along the new East London extension in South London. They're pretty much spreading out all over because they require offices local to all major projects.

More encouraging news\/

Mace poaches Laing O’Rourke manager for Shard
21 November 2008

By Sarah Richardson

Move comes as contractor awaits decision on £435m bid for 312m tower at London Bridge

Mace has poached a senior project director from Laing O’Rourke to run its work on the Shard, in a sign of its confidence that the controversial tower will go ahead.

Tim Goldby has joined the firm, which is to build the 312m tower at London Bridge under a fixed-price contract, as project director responsible for delivering the scheme. He will work alongside Ian Eggers, the current project director on the job, to bulk up the management team.

The appointment comes as Mace waits to hear whether its price for the project in the £2bn London Bridge Quarter will be accepted by Teighmore, the scheme’s developer, which consists of Sellar Property Group and four Qatari investors.

The firm is believed to have tabled a bid of about £435m, £85m above the original price estimate of £350m. This follows value engineering exercises on areas including the M&E package, which brought the bid down from a reported £450m.

Sellar has maintained that the project will go ahead despite funding difficulties. These led to a delay in demolition work earlier this year. The developer has already appointed contractors to a number of specialist packages including the piling, which will be carried out by Stent, the steelwork, which has gone to Cleveland Bridge, and the cladding which will be done by Scheldebouw.

Mace agreed to carry out the project under a fixed-price contract last year, having originally bid for it as a construction management job, after Sellar considered replacing it with Laing O’Rourke.

The scheme is project managed by Bernard Ainsworth; cost consultant Turner & Townsend was appointed earlier this year with a remit to drive down costs.

Good news.
But 312m? A misprint or do we have a 2 meter height increase. :D

I agree good news.
I dont think anybody can really agree on how tall it will be, the most common heights I've heard quoted are 306 and 310m although I have heard people quoting 301m and now 312m. Having said that though, all of those heights have come out of the papers, so its likely they don't actually know.

For such an enormous project (pun intended) the logistical planning process must have been nightmare!

Yes it must. But what pun?

310m is the height, although I dont mind reading 'The Shard will be 312m tall''

But what pun?

My thoughts exactly.

What do you mean by "tops"? If you mean height then actually there are towers in Moscow, considerably further north than London (and yes Moscow is 100% in Europe), that will be taller than LBT. If by "tops" you mean quality then I think it easily beats any other scraper anywhere in Europe - and perhaps the world. However you seem to be referring to top "building" (not just scraper). That's a very ambitious claim given how much superb architecture there is on this continent, in so many styles and forms.

the BBC is reporting that the developer of the tallest tower under construction in Moscow has halted work and is laying of people - victims of the credit crunch - other large projects in Moscow are also stopped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7742538.stm

the BBC is reporting that the developer of the tallest tower under construction in Moscow has halted work and is laying of people - victims of the credit crunch - other large projects in Moscow are also stopped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7742538.stm

Such a shame :D

I feel sorry for the people, but I'm glad it's be suspended. The Shard deserves to take the limelight first, not some copy.

I quickly posted a photo the other day from New London Bridge House. A client has offices there - so I went walkabout after a meeting.
These photo's are from the stairwell:

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff329/De1egado/Londonbridgeshard.jpg

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff329/De1egado/Londonbridge.jpg

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff329/De1egado/Londonbridgestn.jpg

Wandering back down, I saw the 16th floor was deserted, and the office door was open. Unfortunately the floor was covered in glue from where the carpet had been. It wasn't until after I stood still to grab the photo below, that I realised how strong the glue was, and I nearly had to leave my shoes behind!

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff329/De1egado/City1.jpg

The view would have been worth a new pair of shoes.

^^quite so, excellent dedication to the cause. Fine views indeed, imagine being another 200m up though. Wowser.

Come on, sign the fixed price contract already team........

I certainly agree, the view is worth a pair of your shoes! Great shots, thanks for sharing.

I would say that this news is a good indication that the contract is about to be signed.
I would imagine Mr Goldby would have asked for some sort of gaurantee that he is not leaving O'Rouke to be unemployed in a couple of months!

other large projects in Moscow are also stopped.

Why do you lie?

He's only qouting the BBC, so tell them!!!!!!!!

Why do you lie?
Projects big and small are being cancelled or delayed in pretty much evry major country round the world at the moment, one or two in London as well, so don't get all offended and turn into another Coth.

Ismail (or whoever can answer) exactly which contract/s need to be signed now for this to be 100% undeniably go...I know it pretty much is already, but specifically what deeds are waiting to be signed for the project to get the full go-ahead?

Jack

We are just waiting now on the offical news that MACE has been awarded the fixed price overall construction contract.

However, ( not being negative or anything) but as can be seen from the Moscow tower example, even then things can come to a halt

the BBC is reporting that the developer of the tallest tower under construction in Moscow has halted work and is laying of people - victims of the credit crunch - other large projects in Moscow are also stopped.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7742538.stmYeah but the Federation Tower remans under construction and it's a lot taller than the Shard.

I find the Shard to be 10x better than the Federation Tower complex, it may not be as tall but aesthetically it is vastly superior. The Federation Tower would look stupid if it were built where The Shard is being built. I don't think the same would apply the other way around.

Height is far from everything. The Shard is perfect IMO, when all factors are taken into consideration.

agree, the best example of your explanation is the chrysler building its not the tallest but its one of the best skysrapers ever built and i think the shard will be the same.

I find the Shard to be 10x better than the Federation Tower complex, it may not be as tall but aesthetically it is vastly superior. The Federation Tower would look stupid if it were built where The Shard is being built. I don't think the same would apply the other way around.

Height is far from everything. The Shard is perfect IMO, when all factors are taken into consideration.Yes I agree the Shard's far superior. In fact it's generally me that attacks the childish and insecure fixation with raw height found so frequently on these forums. The Sears Tower and Taipei 101, for instance, both record holders in their time, are nonetheless hideously ugly. I wouldn't want either of them anywhere near London. However read my original response. He's saying the Shard will be the tallest in northern Europe, but he's wrong. It never will be.

Latest news from your friendly local SSC London Bridge correspondent, the old walkway over St Thomas's Street has been replaced this weekend. The road was closed yesterday evening when I walked past and I return this evening to find a shiny new walkway using the piles and steelwork that have recently appeared at the Stainer Street tunnel entrance to the station.

Oh and here's an interesting one, I am a member of the Bermondsey Street Action Partnership and recently received an invitation to their Crimbo party saying that there will be 'an exclusive viewing of the proposals for the St Thomas Street site from the developers of the Shard - Sellar Developments - designed by Herzog and de Meuron'

I presume that this is the car park site on the south side of St Thomas St west of Snowsfield. It's a prime site completely empty apart from a rather beautiful old Leather tanning warehouse, so will be fascinating to see what is proposed.

Ooh sounds interesting. But make sure they don't turn you into a NIMBY, them people are into the dark arts. :evil:

Ooh sounds interesting. But make sure they don't turn you into a NIMBY, them people are into the dark arts. :evil:

Aw, but I want to be a nimby :rant:

Yes it must. But what pun?


Enormous in terms of project size and tower size.

I admit, not the best play on words in the world!

doing a piece on this right now... got a few factoids for people.

* the foundation secant piles will be 50 metres deep!
* they are going to build the basement top down
* the structure of the tower has a concrete core on the lower levels with steel frame, concrete frame on mid levels with the upper most floors (top 60 metres) being entirely steel, no concrete core
* the winter gardens will have the perimeter columns running through them meaning there'll be more column-free space inside the building

* they are going to build the basement top down


interesting, how's that gonna work?

same way as Heron isn't it......puts piles in, the main tower footings and start on superstructure, then dig out below the first basement slab to create another basement.....or something like that. I'm no engineer. Could mean that we see the superstructure a little earlier than we may have thoughts as that'll go up a bit before they complete the humdrum (but essential) basement out of view below the hoardings.

thanks for update gothic....who've you been talking to?

jimbo! you know the only way to get such info out of me is to ply me with booze!

jimbo! you know the only way to get such info out of me is to ply me with booze!

see you on Saturday sport!

hehe. good! (i probably will be there by the way). there's just too much crazy gossip from conran to gensler to stay quiet on.

This might be too much to ask, but could somebody in the know super impose the foot print of the tower on to the current station.

I am still trying to work out where this will fit in terms of the bus station etc.

Will the current bus station canopy be removed as part of the Shard development or is it part of the proposed station redevelopment?:nuts:

The Shard itself is centred roughly where Southwark Towers was, and the whole bus station roof up to the rail platforms is going. See pic.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/Shard.jpg

does this project have a design and access statement? I would love to have a look at it..

If anyone has a link to it kindly pm me, Thank you very much!

does this project have a design and access statement? I would love to have a look at it..

If anyone has a link to it kindly pm me, Thank you very much!

i think there is a link to the planning application posted in the last 6 weeks in this thread

I wonder when they will demolish the building opposite for the baby shard?

2009!

God, I have to say how simply bloody amazing this building is. Its easy to forget about the end product when focusing on the delays and problems but it is simply stunning. Look at it! Utterly beatiful.

Let's hope we'll be saying exactly the same thing in a few years, when gazing up awestruck at its completed form...

2009!

really? London Bridge will be unrecognisable by the time the olympics occure...thank god, it's always been such a hole.
Pity the station development will not be done for years.

Makes a smashing Bus Station, much better than my local bus station.

does this project have a design and access statement? I would love to have a look at it..

If anyone has a link to it kindly pm me, Thank you very much!

Hang on - that's two skyscraper DASs you've asked for at least. You designing a tower in London?

The Shard itself is centred roughly where Southwark Towers was, and the whole bus station roof up to the rail platforms is going. See pic.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/Shard.jpg

is it really going to be that blue

is it really going to be that blue

The glass was originally meant to be unusually white, and quite reflective. If that render is right then surely the spec must have changed somewhere along the way - some of the whiteness must have been value-engineered out.

In any event, it's a 1000-ft building in a city that gets a lot of cloud and that has long shadows even on sunny days (thanks to our latitude), so whatever colour the glass is, it'll look darkish a fair amount of the time.

nah, the glass is the same, the building is being reflective there... reflecting the sky at dusk i presume from the red hue on the horizon. not the best of images.

I seem to remember that the glass was pretty much enshrined in the development. If you look back through the thread you will see the same blue effect on the glass in earlier renders. In this image you can see the same blue glow on pretty much any light coloured building.

not a big fun of that render to be fair. I think it almost looks alittle cheap, there's certainly better images around, pretty much all of them on the Shard website. Still, I think that may be the only negative comment I've had on the entire Shard project and design.

The site yesterday from New London Bridge House..........
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff329/De1egado/IMG_6738.jpg
And sneaking around after a meeting, up on the 22nd floor (which has a carpet!), I took these photos from 3 windows and stitched them together. (The east side was a bit dirty).
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff329/De1egado/City3.jpg

....these are fantastic pics you're posting here. Thanks.

Are you going to be around when the Shard goes up? You could be the official photographer.:)

Will the current bus station canopy be removed as part of the Shard development or is it part of the proposed station redevelopment?:nuts:It's being replaced as part of the station redevelopment with a clear glass canopy. This should start soonish, unless the plans have changed again.

London Bridge will be unrecognisable by the time the olympics occure...thank god, it's always been such a hole.
Pity the station development will not be done for years.My understanding is that some of the station redevelopment is being done now as its intrinsically linked into the construction of the Shard. One can't be done without the other. But the major change of reorienting all the platforms isn't happening now for years.

The Shard itself is centred roughly where Southwark Towers was, and the whole bus station roof up to the rail platforms is going. See pic.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/Shard.jpg

Are those triple decker buses or is someone exaggerating?

Are those triple decker buses or is someone exaggerating?

haha thats what I was thinking. Prob just to highlight the bus station though..

I don't know if anyone has realised this, but in that rendering which Zedferret posted the new, New London Bridge House called London Bridge Place will be double the height of what is shown in that picture. 33 floors. That will spoil some views from the Shard.:(

^^Oh dear you haven't bought flat there have you.

..... Not on my pension, no.:) I wouldn't say no to one though, if it were offered. View or no view.

Anyway, it'll be the office views ruined not the flats.

I don't know if anyone has realised this, but in that rendering which Zedferret posted the new, New London Bridge House called London Bridge Place will be double the height of what is shown in that picture. 33 floors. That will spoil some views from the Shard.:(

I think the render above is up-to date, I haven't ever heard of London Bridge Place being 33 floors, unless I've missed a secret redesign. :dunno:
As far as I know London Bridge Place will be 18 floors and 74 meters high.

That was my understanding too ?

Are those triple decker buses or is someone exaggerating?

Yes, triple deckers, but EH complained about their height so the plans are now on hold.

Complained about their height? Oh my lord!! English Heritage should not exist to be perfectly honest, they interfere too much on the redevelopment of London

Exactly...I preferred the middle ages when everyone was short! We didnt have all these height problems then! Well........we didnt live long enough too......... :sleepy:

They exist. Havent you all seen harry potter?

I think the render above is up-to date, I haven't ever heard of London Bridge Place being 33 floors, unless I've missed a secret redesign. :dunno:
As far as I know London Bridge Place will be 18 floors and 74 meters high.The shard website says 33 floors, but perhaps the website is out of date. There's been so many redesigns and changes its hard to keep up to date with all of it.

I really liked the original design, the gem? i think it was called, the current design in the render really doesn't inspire me.

Doesn't inspire me either especially if its double the height of what's shown! I liked the gem too, it was a nice contrast to the shard.

The shard website says 33 floors, but perhaps the website is out of date. There's been so many redesigns and changes its hard to keep up to date with all of it.

Where on the website does it say that? I can't see it anywhere. What I can see, on p20 of the brochure (http://www.shardlondonbridge.com/downloads/brochure/LBQ_book_final.pdf), is this:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/tomyates7/lbq_levels.jpg

Click on Realisation then click on London Bridge Place.

The 33 is probably just a typo, but its quite a big error.

^^Oh god, so it does, you're absolutely right.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/tomyates7/lbp.jpg

The renders certainly don't show anything 33-storey, so I assume it's some sort of error, but, as you say, a huge one....

That would put it at 125m+.

Remember, this is skyscraper city. We would know about something like this by now;)

That would also be like building 10 upper bank street on the south bank (similar design)

Yes its a mistake I think

not sure if everyone has seen it before, there's a better quality version on the shard's website
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EbF58CHjZTM

Southwark Towers is nearly gone now, they are down to the ground floor:cheers:

excellent. i should be able to get a pic around xmas when i'm in that part of london.

If you stand on the new foot bridge you get a birds eye view of the demo

just what i wanted to hear, cheers :cheers:

Yay!

Southwark Towers is nearly gone now, they are down to the ground floor:cheers:

Good stuff...but surely there is a lot of basement work to do?

^^ Of that I have no doubt, but progress is progress...

we need photo updates......this will be momentous and I shall permit myself the luxury of a dancing banana the moment we see Stent's piling equipment on site.

Well they said Piling would start January 5th! So less than a month!

Well they said Piling would start January 5th! So less than a month!

if that's the case maybe i'll be able to catch the rigs waiting on site when i'm there on the 27th dec.

I'll believe it when its rising...

Almost gone now, just spent 30 mins on the foot bridge watching the demo, and I wasn't the only one, it's become quite a bit of a show.
All those JCB's and jack hammers in an coriographed ballet of destruction.:nuts:

Yup still battering away - how deep is the basement? This could still have a bit more to go;

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/fit3xl/shard002.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/fit3xl/shard003.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/fit3xl/shard006.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa278/fit3xl/shard007.jpg

All those JCB's and jack hammers in an coriographed ballet of destruction.:nuts:
<pedant>Grr, in New York its a jack hammer. In London its a Pneumatic Drill (well ok Jack Hammer is earier to spell! But all the same)</pedant>

oooh, the guts of the building. Seems to have taken a little longer to bring down than we thought, but no bother! The foot bridge is going to provide some excellent viewing. I'd say piling in Jan could be quite optimistic at that rate, but perhaps right towards the end of the month. Ta for the photos fitzy.

I read that piling would start in one part of the site first, and while the rest is dug out, and then the whole of the site will be piled.

oooh, the guts of the building. Seems to have taken a little longer to bring down than we thought, but no bother! The foot bridge is going to provide some excellent viewing. I'd say piling in Jan could be quite optimistic at that rate, but perhaps right towards the end of the month. Ta for the photos fitzy.

Does anybody know what is going on at ground level as the level in the pics is actually the height at the top of the viaduct London Bridge station sits on.

Smoggie saw a tunnel cut out of the viaduct at ground level along St Thomas St a while back so I would imagine quite a lot is going on down there that would not be obvious to the general public.

Yup still battering away - how deep is the basement? ]Good question, I actually don't know. I should've...

Southwark Towers was always a bit of weird building because of the different levels the building is built on as noted by London Lad. I don't know how many levels the official basement had (assuming there was one, I don't know, I never saw it!..) But, what I called the basement level was in fact Level 1 of the building which was accessible from St Thomas Street. This level was where the swimming pool was, the gym, squash courts, maintenance areas, post room and car park.

The last picture in the above pics taken by the entrance to London Bridge Station (London Bridge St) are actually on, what was, Level 3 of Southwark Towers. This was the main reception and staff entrance to the building.

Technically, Level 3 of the building was "ground" level and Level 1 and Level 2 (restaurant floor) were basement levels. If there are levels below level 1, I never saw them.

PwC's current HQ at Embankment Place has 3 basement levels, in case any one was wondering. No, I didn't think so.:)

^^^ and then there is the foundations...1970's London tower, a well known period of over constructed foundations...they all have to be removed if not incorporated into the new structure. I refuse to be negative on these threads, but be assured there is alot of foundation to be tittivated yet :)

PW: Qatari to provide finance for London’s Shard development


Qatari Diar Real Estate Investment Company is to provide the bulk of development finance for the Renzo Piano-designed Shard development at London Bridge.

The sovereign wealth fund said today it had agreed to provide a funding facility to London Bridge Quarter, the Jersey-registered holding company that is developing the Shard and a second adjacent development called London Bridge Place.

The extent of the loan has not been disclosed but it is thought to be significant given that the estimated construction costs could be as high as £1bn. Qatari Diar, headed by John Wallace in the UK, has not taken an equity stake in the development but will take a seat on the board of directors of the company.

London Bridge Quarter is an international joint venture owned equally by Qatar Islamic Bank, Qinvest, Qatar National Bank, Barwa International and Irvine Sellar. Sellar Property Group is also the development manager.

Demolition and site clearance of The Shard site will be completed next month and demolition and site clearance will start on the London Bridge Place site in March 2009.

Construction on both sites is expected to start next year with practical completion in 2012.

A spokesman for Qatari Diar said: ‘This further financial commitment by Qatari Diar to London’s real estate market underscores our conviction that, despite its current challenges, London remains one of the most important real estate markets in the world and it is one in which we have an ongoing interest. We take a long term view of all of our investments here and remain confident of their successful outcome.’

A spokesman for London Bridge Quarter said: ‘Obtaining this new facility, which is a major part of our overall financing requirement, enables the programme for completion of The Shard and its sister building London Bridge Place to remain on programme for completion early in 2012.’

:banana: Nice find

:dance::pepper::pepper::pepper:Oh yes :banana::banana::banana:

And a March 2009 demo for London Bridge place, superb

I doubt even the credit crunch can stop this one now. :)

Very good news! I didnt know Ldn Bridge Place was going up at the same time!
Very cool!

I doubt even the credit crunch can stop this one now. :)

why do you say that?God is watching

why do you say that?God is watching

I reckon God likes this one. Don't you just love them Arabs...so much better chucking their money at London than at the ultimate Folley that is Dubai.

PW: Qatari to provide finance for London’s Shard development


the Jersey-registered holding company that is developing the Shard and a second adjacent development called London Bridge Place.
.’
:banana:
wounder why its of interest to me??:)

why do you say that?God is watching


This is such a fantastic project, even God could not sink it!


(Lord..you know I love you and am just joking x :) )

:dance:

The best news ever!!! Another article:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/construction_and_property/article5354529.ece

This forum had gone a bit into the duldrums, just the medicine to perk it up.

Brilliant news! Credit Crunch? PAH! All the big ones are going ahead, except Leadenhall, which I dont think is too much to cry about when we have the others to keep us busy throughout 2009.

The Pound Sterling has fallen sufficiently against the stronger Middle Eastern currencies, for investments in Britain to look quite attractive.

This is how much the £ has fallen against the Qatar Rial since the beginning of the year:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b281/SE9/1ygbpqarx.png






Article in today's Times:


Renzo Piano: the top of his game
‘I like to fight gravity,' the architect says. And now his Shard of Glass, the tallest building in Europe, is under way in London
December 17, 2008


http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/visual_arts/architecture_and_design/article5352742.ece

Cranes all over Britain have frozen. Construction workers are flooding home to Poland. Grand designs are on ice for a year or two, or three. But one architect's cranes are swinging away above London Bridge station. “No, nobody thought it would happen,” Renzo Piano says in his soft, sing-song Italian accent. “But we have surprised them all!” His avuncular eyes twinkle with pride. Eight years after it was unveiled, at the very moment when nobody in their right minds would think of building Europe's tallest skyscraper, work has begun on the Shard of Glass, all 310 metres (1,017ft) of it.

So, Renzo, are you stark raving mad? “Not at all, no, in fact this is exactly the right time to start building.” It is, if you've got the finance sorted. If you proposed this sort of thing now, venture capitalists would run for the hills. Much of the past few years have been spent by the Shard's developers, Sellar Property Group, sealing the deals on tenants.

A skyscraper of this bulk - unprecedented in Britain - lives or dies by its business plan. The lower part will be the HQ for Transport for London; a Shangri-La hotel takes the centre, and the top has apartments, with an observation deck for the public just before the pinnacle. And at the apex? A meditation space, floating high in the sky.

The site is cleared, foundations will start being poured in January, and the tower - along with its mini-me neighbour London Bridge Place - the first phase to transform Britain's most horrific railway station, is planned for completion by May 2012. The thinking is that, while the floor has fallen out of the commercial property market, come the Olympics London will be booming again, office rents sky high and the Shard of Glass will not seem a white elephant but strikingly prescient.

Its revival will horrify those who might have hoped the scheme was stone cold dead. When it was proposed, the inevitable debate rumbled about London's skyline. “They said they were worried about it taking away the role of icon from St Paul's,” Piano says. “This will never happen. I love St Paul's. I will never make a second icon.” Being almost a mile away on the south bank of the Thames it's not exactly in the cathedral's curtilage. And those who romanticise about the beauty of London's skyline clearly can't see the reality for their rose-tinted spectacles. Canaletto's London was lost centuries ago. London isn't Paris or Venice - a precious work of art. Its beauty comes precisely from its chaos, its collisions.

That said, the Shard is awfully big - a step change in height for the capital's architecture. Its prominence is mitigated, in part, by its beauty: a slim, elegant spire in a country where skyscrapers, the Gherkin excepted, are generally sawn-off stumps. The height controversy in Britain usually has the effect of making a project worse, not better. A few floors are shaved off to compromise, but with little actual effect on the building's presence, so that it hovers, uncomfortably, ill-at-ease and in between, neither tall enough to be elegant, nor small enough to be ignored.

The Shard, though, is confident. It embraces its height, and turns it to its advantage. “It's really like a sparkling shard coming up,” Piano explains, “very sharp, very clean, and playing with the light. Because of the complicated shape of the site, the sides of glass are angled to catch the light, reflect the sky. It is very light, it will disappear into the air.” We have heard that argument before.

More worrying is whether the Shard will open the floodgates for a rash of uglier copycats. Southwark council is eager to entice blue-chip offices from the City across the Thames. Far more important is how such a behemoth hits the neighbourhood without overwhelming it. The design has been much improved at its base. It's clearly still mammoth, but has a greater delicacy at street level.

The fundamental worry, though, is whether London needs a building of this size at all. “Normally skyscrapers have this bad reputation that they deserve,” Piano says, “because they're quite mysterious objects of power, symbols of money, of arrogance. I don't think London is a city where you should make towers everywhere. I am not an apologist for all skyscrapers. Just place them where they make sense. This building is fundamentally about the destiny of cities.”

To grow, does a city keep sprawling? Or does it implode? Piano sees his project as “clever intensification - how you can intensify the city without increasing traffic. It is nice to make in a congested area like Southwark a building that is like a little vertical town. It is a mix of things. Buildings can only become loved by the public when they are able to go there, when they are not mysterious objects. They are alive. That is what makes a city.”

It may be a mass of carbon-gobbling concrete, glass and steel, but by concentrating so much activity on one site, there is an argument for its sustainability. “I love the polemic of making a building that tall in that spot, so central a place, without car parking, that a building of that size can survive just living on public transport.” He points to the two underground lines, six train lines and 16 bus routes that pass through London Bridge.

But the London Mayor, Boris Johnson, is at best ambivalent about skyscrapers - often hostile before he became mayor, rather more pragmatic now that he's in City Hall. The building's completion date, May 2012, happens to be around the time of the next mayoral election.

It makes no sense, Piano says, to oppose skyscrapers full stop. “As an architect I judge each specific case according to its evidence, and this building makes sense. You have my word - I would not do it if I did not believe in it.”

Piano had his moment of controversy nearly 40 years ago when he won, with Richard Rogers, the competition to build the most infamous building of the 1970s, the Pompidou Centre in Paris. Both were almost unknown thirtysomethings. “We were very young. We were bad boys. We looked like the Beatles, you know, long hair, beard, flares. So we decided to be free. We were not going to win, so what did it matter?”

But win they did, their provocative building capturing the post-1968 mood with its machine-aesthetic, and its culture-for-all philosophy. “Until then we had never built anything that lasted longer than six months. But we visited President Pompidou and he said this building had to last 500 years. Mamma mia!” Two decades before Gehry's Bilbao Guggenheim, Piano and Rogers invented the iconic cultural building so ubiquitous today.

Afterwards, though, he broke up with Rogers and spent three years not building so much as thinking, with the engineer Peter Rice. When he came back his architecture was a very different affair - still generous, humanist, but lighter. “I like to fight against gravity.” Perhaps it comes, he says, from his childhood watching ships - “floating buildings” - in the harbour in Genoa, and a lifetime sailing.

These days, he's one of the good guys. The safe pair of hands. Sometimes too safe. At his worst he becomes bloodless, all that glass and steel just plain dull. At his best, though - such as his latest work, the Academy of Science in San Francisco, which has just opened to rave reviews - he is inventive, light and sensitive. If you were to have anyone to build a giant skyscraper slap bang in the middle of London, he's the one to have.

His reputation, rare in an architect, of decency and unpretentiousness has flooded him with work in the past 15 years. He's the go-to guy if you want something modern, smart, beautifully finished, on time, on budget, but not so weird that it will frighten the horses. “People can rely on us. We have never lost control of a project. Nowadays architecture seems to be a bit too sculptural. It's wrong, wrong! Trapping yourself in the golden cage of style is wrong. You should not repeat yourself in the same shape. That is the beginning of the end, you become self referential, you become trapped.

“I have nothing against fashion. But fashion is not building. Fashions go up and down. What I do is I go straight.” Growing up in a family of builders kept him down to earth. “Pretending to be an artist is for when you are 18 years old. I got to be a good builder. If you can't understand how a building is put together it's like a pianist who can read music but can't play it. I grew up understanding that building is a great thing. That making shelter for human buildings is a noble activity.

“Architecture is the oldest profession. Or very nearly,” he laughs. “It's like hunting, eating, it is giving people shelter, a basic need. Don't forget that.”

^ Great article, especially this bit:

"That said, the Shard is awfully big - a step change in height for the capital's architecture. Its prominence is mitigated, in part, by its beauty: a slim, elegant spire in a country where skyscrapers, the Gherkin excepted, are generally sawn-off stumps. The height controversy in Britain usually has the effect of making a project worse, not better. A few floors are shaved off to compromise, but with little actual effect on the building's presence, so that it hovers, uncomfortably, ill-at-ease and in between, neither tall enough to be elegant, nor small enough to be ignored."

Now all we need is for Khalid Affra to get his Arab consortium to do the same and we'll have the Pinnacle as well.

Also:

This must mean that MACE have the construction contract in the bag, I doubt the funding would have been agreed without the construction cost being agreed first

^ Great article, especially this bit:

The height controversy in Britain usually has the effect of making a project worse, not better. A few floors are shaved off to compromise, but with little actual effect on the building's presence, so that it hovers, uncomfortably, ill-at-ease and in between, neither tall enough to be elegant, nor small enough to be ignored."

I just find it astonishing that councillors, planning depts. and quangos can’t see this blindingly obvious element of design!

Anyway good news! My how we have waited and grown old!

This is the one that will hopefully turn around the bizarre situation highlighted in the piece above.

"And at the apex? A meditation space, floating high in the sky"

so they did include it? Stunning!

It says construction will start in January - is that right?

How about a celebratory meet up when that does happen - I think the chicago boys did that when construction started on the Spire.

"the first phase to transform Britain's most horrific railway station"

Spot the journalist who's never been to Birmingham...

meant to write about this yesterday but life intervened. anyway the funders sent me what i think is a new render too -

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1912ShardSecuresFinalBatchOfFunding_pic1.jpg

:drool:

Where is London Bridge Station entrance in relation to that render? I can't work it out from the pictures of the demolition

:drool:

i wonder if that will make it in the record books as the world's biggest teepee

Cheery news for a nasty Wednesday....just looking at this:

It will take a seat on the board of LBQ, the consortium developing the Shard in exchange for its backing, and may become more involved in its development as it progresses.

I wonder what this means - what sort of input would they have on the devlopment?

wonderful wonderful news. Saw the news in the Times and the Piano article and it warmed with ruined cockles of my heart. So for certain, Heron, Riverside South and the Shard in 2009/2010. That's enough for anyone to dance a cucumber. Blasts us out of the doldrums with knobs on.

Where is London Bridge Station entrance in relation to that render? I can't work it out from the pictures of the demolition

Good point. It looks as though it's been obliterated with just the lines to Charing X / Cannon St still showing.

Where is London Bridge Station entrance in relation to that render? I can't work it out from the pictures of the demolition

See the trees at the base of the tower... the station entrance would be to the right of that.

Its blocked by the tower from this view.

That's why I'm excited to live in London. Despite Renzo Piano saying he doesn't want to create another icon, I think he has! What a beauty.

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/visual_arts/architecture_and_design/article5352742.ece

"Skyscrapers only look good when grouped together. In Southwark the only other building of height is the non-descript tower of Guy's Hospital. This "shard" looks like being a lone monstrosity much like the disastrous Centre Point."

Janet, London

Shard set to soar

Michael Donnelly, PlanningResource, 17 December 2008

Work on the 1,000 ft Shard of Glass tower planned for London's South Bank looks finally set to begin.

Qatari Diar Real Estate has given fresh funding to the LBQ consortium building the tower at London Bridge enabling construction to start next month.

The Renzo Piano-designed tower, which will include office, hotel and residential accommodation, and a smaller building, London Bridge Place, should be completed by 2012.

The Shard was granted planning permission in November 2003 after a lengthy public inquiry.

The tower has been controversial due to its size and construction outside of the ‘City Cluster’ of tall buildings.

Financial and legal wrangling has also delayed the scheme.

Demolition and site clearance of the Shard site will be completed in January and demolition and site clearance will commence on the London Bridge Place site in March 2009.

http://www.planningresource.co.uk/bulletins/Planning-Resource-Daily-Bulletin/News/869733/Shard-set-soar/?DCMP=EMC-DailyBulletin

But Janet if LBT is next to Guys then surely that constitutes a grouping of towers- deary me.

You can bet if there was more than one tower proposed here Janet would instead be writing about the Manhattanisation of London.

Any cluster of skyscrapers must start with the first one, surely Janet. :ohno:

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/visual_arts/architecture_and_design/article5352742.ece

"Skyscrapers only look good when grouped together. In Southwark the only other building of height is the non-descript tower of Guy's Hospital. This "shard" looks like being a lone monstrosity much like the disastrous Centre Point."

Janet, London

Janet's going to love the Shard once it's built. In fact all naysayers are going to love it once they see it gleaming in the skyline. :)

Im concerned that Centrepoint might lose soemthing by being surrounded!

Centrepoint is a fantastic tower, couldnt imagine it in a cluster !

£425m pricetag agreed for Shard
building.co.uk
19 December 2008

By Sarah Richardson

The developer of London Bridge’s Shard tower is understood to have agreed a price of about £425m for the scheme with main contractor Mace

The sum is a saving of about £10m on the fixed-price bid that Mace submitted two months ago, but is still about £75m above the original estimate of £350m. An agreement would be the culmination of months of talks.

A source close to the project said: “They’ve basically reached agreement on the price. The signatures will be finalised within the next three weeks.”

The news emerged as investment company Qatari Diar announced it had agreed to provide finance for London Bridge Quarter, the joint venture body of Sellar Properties and four Qatari backers that is developing the 310m-high scheme. Qatari Diar will not take an equity stake, but will sit on the board of the organisation, which replaced Teighmore as developer after two original backers were bought out in January. Construction is expected to start next year.

“The signatures will be finalised within the next three weeks source close to the project”

Meanwhile, Mace announced that four of its senior board directors would be leaving the firm at the end of the year. Gary France, Steve Anderson, Mike Atkinson and Steve Booth will leave as part of the “succession planning” that followed its management buyout in 2001.

Stephen Pycroft, chief executive, said: “They have amassed more than 60 years’ service to Mace and it is time for the next generation to take up the challenge.”

• It is still unclear whether a restructuring within Transport for London (TfL), the Shard’s anchor tenant, could scupper its deal to take space in the building. A copy of a letter sent by TfL commissioner Peter Hendy to staff last week, seen by Building, says the organisation will conduct a “review” of all office locations in a bid to “reduce overhead costs” as it cuts staff.

I cant see Boris wanting TfL to take space in the Shard.

Its amazing that in these times of economic turmoil almost all of the news about this project that we have seen in the last couple of months is so positive.

It really looks as if this is going ahead despite everything - and I thought this was least likely to get built. A nice Xmas present for all members :cheers:

I cant see Boris wanting TfL to take space in the Shard.

why not?

With something like 2,000 redundancies at TfL over the next year or so I doubt they will even need the space in the Shard. Doesn't mean though here's less chance of it going ahead.

Surely they will just go for the best deal commercially available? The rate negotiated in The Shard was pretty competitive. Despite the cutbacks I thought they were still reviewing their property requirements so if the The Shard compares well I would have thought they would relocate there.

£425m pricetag agreed for Shard
building.co.uk
19 December 2008

By Sarah Richardson

The developer of London Bridge’s Shard tower is understood to have agreed a price of about £425m for the scheme with main contractor Mace

The sum is a saving of about £10m on the fixed-price bid that Mace submitted two months ago, but is still about £75m above the original estimate of £350m. An agreement would be the culmination of months of talks.

A source close to the project said: “They’ve basically reached agreement on the price. The signatures will be finalised within the next three weeks.”

The news emerged as investment company Qatari Diar announced it had agreed to provide finance for London Bridge Quarter, the joint venture body of Sellar Properties and four Qatari backers that is developing the 310m-high scheme. Qatari Diar will not take an equity stake, but will sit on the board of the organisation, which replaced Teighmore as developer after two original backers were bought out in January. Construction is expected to start next year.

“The signatures will be finalised within the next three weeks source close to the project”

Meanwhile, Mace announced that four of its senior board directors would be leaving the firm at the end of the year. Gary France, Steve Anderson, Mike Atkinson and Steve Booth will leave as part of the “succession planning” that followed its management buyout in 2001.

Stephen Pycroft, chief executive, said: “They have amassed more than 60 years’ service to Mace and it is time for the next generation to take up the challenge.”

• It is still unclear whether a restructuring within Transport for London (TfL), the Shard’s anchor tenant, could scupper its deal to take space in the building. A copy of a letter sent by TfL commissioner Peter Hendy to staff last week, seen by Building, says the organisation will conduct a “review” of all office locations in a bid to “reduce overhead costs” as it cuts staff.That's the news we've been waiting for. :okay:

Trio of firms advise on Shard of Glass financing
19th December 2008


http://www.thelawyer.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=136134&d=415&h=417&f=416

Eversheds, Norton Rose and Rosenblatt Solicitors have snared the key roles in a deal to secure a new funding package for the construction of Europe's tallest building - the Shard of Glass at London Bridge.


The loan was provided by Qatar Diar, which is owned by the emirate's sovereign wealth fund and was advised by Norton Rose finance partner Lucy Wolley Dod.

Development consortium LBQ, represented by Eversheds real estate partner Nicholas Bartlett, said the iconic 1,000ft tower would now be completed as scheduled in 2012.

LBQ's partner on the £2bn project, the Sellar Property Group, called on Rosenblatt corporate partner David Fairfield.

Ogiers advised the Sellar Group on Jersey Law, led by partner Christopher Byrne.

The future of the project had looked uncertain after several skyscraper schemes were put on ice because of the credit crunch.

The LBQ consortium - which includes Qatari Investment Bank, Qinvest, Qatar National Bank and Barwa International - became involved in the Shard of Glass after a shake-up in January 2008 that saw property tycoon Simon Halabi sell his stake to Middle Eastern investors.

Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer acted for LBQ on that deal, led by real estate partner Annette Byron, while Olswang partner Graham Barber advised Halabi.

Ashurst, which represented the Sellar Property Group and Teighmore on the original financing in 2006, is no longer advising on the project.

The Shard of Glass will be home to the Shangri-La Hotel as well as office and residential space.

why not?

It just doesnt fit with his values re London...I am being political and perhaps thats best for the mayoral thread...it wont effect the Tower itself.

Told you the price had been agreed:)

If not seen yet...

Shard Secures Final Batch Of Funding
Published on 17-12-2008 by Skyscrapernews.com


The question mark over whether London's supertall Shard will be built has been finally resolved with the announcement of a new injection of funding into the scheme.

The financial white knight comes in the form of the Qatari Diar Real Estate Investment Company who have agreed to provide an unspecified amount of funding for the project despite the current economic woes that are gripping other supertall projects around the world such as the Russia Tower in Moscow.

London Bridge Tower, better known these days as the Shard, is being developed by LBQ Ltd, a joint venture between the original developer Sellar Property and a series of Middle eastern backers, Qatar Islamic Bank, Qinvest, Qatar National Bank, and Barwa International.

The funding for the project includes not only the mixed-use 310 metre tall Renzo Piano designed skyscraper but also a nearby mid-rise 74 metre tall office building called London Bridge Place, and a new public space linking the two together.

Demolition of the area that the Shard will sit on is to be completed in January 2009 with work beginning to clear London Bridge Place set to begin in March 2009.

Construction work on both buildings will also begin in 2009 with the scheme aimed at being completed by 2012 rounding off over a decade of drama in the saga of realising what will eventually be London (and western Europe's) tallest building.


I think this will be fine!

oh and, normally i agree, skyscrapers need to be clustered to have a good effect, however i think the shard will look so much better across the thames away from the city on its own. The pinacle will also compliment it in close matching heights. Plus its not actually that far from each other!

Fantastic news! I can't wait to see that beauty gets build!

Excellent news there about the financing! I simply cannot wait to see this baby going up!

^^^ Great news! and Re TfL I would expect it to be prohibitively costly for them to extricate themselves from the contract, but who knows.

Good point

probably let it on

Any cluster of skyscrapers must start with the first one, surely Janet. :ohno:

Planet-Janet: flat earth society. Alone or in a cluster - entirely depends on the building and the context. There aren't any rules about this.

More insanity from the SE1 forum...


http://www.london-se1.co.uk/forum/read/1/58585/page=22

"A: Because I for one am NOT in favour of destroying everything of any character in the area to build yet more piles of faceless glass whose only raison d'etre is to make lots and lots of money for property developers, and before you start no I don't think the wretched tower block it's replacing is worth anything but the Shard is just wrong for this area and so is most of the rest of the rubbish going up. Architecture in the UK is at one of it's all time lows at the moment.

B. People from skyscrapercity.com who are nothing to do with this area, or even London, come on here solely to push an agenda and we have the property developers and all their PR people who get paid vast amounts to do that already.

C: "A much needed boost to construction"? So just build anything as long as it gives work to more construction workers who may or very probably may not be from round here? Or even from the UK?

Why do you think SE1 should look like Dubai?"

More insanity from the SE1 forum...


http://www.london-se1.co.uk/forum/read/1/58585/page=22

"A: Because I for one am NOT in favour of destroying everything of any character in the area to build yet more piles of faceless glass whose only raison d'etre is to make lots and lots of money for property developers, and before you start no I don't think the wretched tower block it's replacing is worth anything but the Shard is just wrong for this area and so is most of the rest of the rubbish going up. Architecture in the UK is at one of it's all time lows at the moment.

B. People from skyscrapercity.com who are nothing to do with this area, or even London, come on here solely to push an agenda and we have the property developers and all their PR people who get paid vast amounts to do that already.

C: "A much needed boost to construction"? So just build anything as long as it gives work to more construction workers who may or very probably may not be from round here? Or even from the UK?

Why do you think SE1 should look like Dubai?"

Not entirely insane. While I disagree with point A's opposition to the Shard, I do agree that there is plenty of crap being built. And C is a perfectly valid point - construction per se is not beneficial. What matters is what benefits London and Londoners, not the construction industry and its workers.

The SE1 forum comments seem to accomplish a double whammy - rampant nimbyism - and a little englander mentality - foreign workers etc.

the custom house in Liverpool was demolished to give jobs to locals!

meant to write about this yesterday but life intervened. anyway the funders sent me what i think is a new render too -

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1912ShardSecuresFinalBatchOfFunding_pic1.jpg

Latest rendering, finally showing that the top might not be as light as in previous. with these glass crowns I dont expect them to be transparent and fade into the sky like they do in 3d max - Beetham Manchester a good example.

The SE1 forum comments seem to accomplish a double whammy - rampant nimbyism - and a little englander mentality - foreign workers etc.

I disagree that it is Little Englander. What exactly is to celebrate about providing employment for (for example) Polish builders? It doesn't benefit British workers and does little good for the British economy when they take/send most of their earnings back to Poland.

I hope this comment doesn't earn me a rebuke from the mods - I have nothing against the Poles etc. per se but I firmly disagree with the notion that building ANYTHING in Britain is a good thing, regardless of WHAT the building is or WHO benefits from it.

dirtydog - my post was aimed at the comments on the SE1 forum - but since you responded ... assuming that the workers are not from London - or are from abroad, presumably some of them might spend some of their cash in London. I don't know who has the steel/material contract - but that's a mighty lot of construction material to be ordered - then there's lawyers, surveyors, engineers - and so on. Incidentally, it's kind of ironical that someone would object to foreign workers - but fail to disparage foreign investment. I understand arguments for outright protectionism - but short of that isn't that what free markets are about?

Hugh is right I think. It seems that the SE1 Forum is being used as a multiple right wing agenda launch pad at the mo. Nimbys, Modernity, Towers & Foreigners etc etc

I think we should consider ourselves to be lucky to ecourage by default migrant workers...its because our economy is (was) so successful. I dont buy the arguement that a worker from Poland is less valuable to our society than a local one....from what I am seeing, lots of LOCAL builders are having a wail of a time using and abusing Polishmen who on the whole seem to have manners and educational standards that are far more superior. It seems sometimes that being a basic builer here is a badge of proud ignorance!

Let them all make hay while the sun still shines. Sending money back to Poland an issue? I hear Poland is now much more successful and may soon become a place than can look after its own on its own....and we get a spankingly sexy skyscraper out of it :)

dirtydog - my post was aimed at the comments on the SE1 forum - but since you responded ... assuming that the workers are not from London - or are from abroad, presumably some of them might spend some of their cash in London. I don't know who has the steel/material contract - but that's a mighty lot of construction material to be ordered - then there's lawyers, surveyors, engineers - and so on. Incidentally, it's kind of ironical that someone would object to foreign workers - but fail to disparage foreign investment. I understand arguments for outright protectionism - but short of that isn't that what free markets are about?

I don't object to foreign workers per se. I object to the notion, as I said, that any and all construction in London (or anywhere else in the UK) must by definition be a good thing, because it helps the construction industry. Well some of us care more about the quality of what goes up, its effect on the locale and how it benefits the area or the country, than the balance sheet of construction companies.

What exactly is to celebrate about providing employment for (for example) Polish builders? It doesn't benefit British workers and does little good for the British economy when they take/send most of their earnings back to Poland.

It's about wealth in the EU. It benefits everyone, British and Polish.

It's about wealth in the EU. It benefits everyone, British and Polish.

I don't agree with that logic I'm afraid. But I daresay the mods are already losing patience with this thread being taken off topic. I would be more than happy to debate the pros and cons of EU membership in a more suitable thread.

I disagree that it is Little Englander. What exactly is to celebrate about providing employment for (for example) Polish builders? It doesn't benefit British workers and does little good for the British economy when they take/send most of their earnings back to Poland.

I hope this comment doesn't earn me a rebuke from the mods - I have nothing against the Poles etc. per se but I firmly disagree with the notion that building ANYTHING in Britain is a good thing, regardless of WHAT the building is or WHO benefits from it.

I agree, in terms of recession and a shortage of jobs, do we really need to be giving jobs to foreigners. Let's train British people up to do the jobs. Construction has been badly hit, so there must be plenty of skilled craftsman that could be do with the work.

I'm sure it would be the same case in their country if the shoe was on the other foot.

It's about wealth in the EU. It benefits everyone, British and Polish.

Exactly....the whole point of the EU. It worked for Spain & Portugal but you cant convince some nor do they care in the end.

Lets just be grateful the Shard is getting built!

Let's train British people up to do the jobs.

I believe we already do. Or should we force Brits at gunpoint to become construction workers?

We can just as easily work over in Poland as they do over here. In fact, many Brits do. And they bring their money back to their British families. In fact, this happens all across the EU. But it's only the Brits that moan about it, thinking they get a raw deal, unable to see beyond the xenophobia-drenched red tops. Funny that.

I couldn't care less if pixies from Mars built the Shard. There's more than enough British people and companies working on this project behind the scenes that many of us no nothing about if you're so nationalistic about it all. It's being built. That's all I care about.

I couldn't care less if pixies from Mars built the Shard. There's more than enough British people and companies working on this project behind the scenes that many of us no nothing about if you're so nationalistic about it all. It's being built. That's all I care about.

well I can't argue with that. It's definately a good thing it's being built, especially at a time when so much has being postponed.

Exactly....the whole point of the EU. It worked for Spain & Portugal but you cant convince some nor do they care in the end.

Ah, net beneficiaries of EU funds, rather than Britain who is a net loser to the tune of ten figures a year. Of course the weak countries love the EU, they get subsidised by Britain, Germany and others. I just take issue with the UK taxpayer funding nice new roads and infrastructure for Spain et al, when our own are crumbling!


Lets just be grateful the Shard is getting built!
I am :)

I believe we already do. Or should we force Brits at gunpoint to become construction workers?

We can just as easily work over in Poland as they do over here. In fact, many Brits do. And they bring their money back to their British families. In fact, this happens all across the EU. But it's only the Brits that moan about it, thinking they get a raw deal, unable to see beyond the xenophobia-drenched red tops. Funny that.

I couldn't care less if pixies from Mars built the Shard. There's more than enough British people and companies working on this project behind the scenes that many of us no nothing about if you're so nationalistic about it all. It's being built. That's all I care about.

Are you characterising all of those who disagree with the influx of immigrants as xenophobic? I would have hoped that the immigration debate in the UK had moved on from such unfounded accusations but apparently not.

Ah, net beneficiaries of EU funds, rather than Britain who is a net loser to the tune of ten figures a year. Of course the weak countries love the EU, they get subsidised by Britain, Germany and others. I just take issue with the UK taxpayer funding nice new roads and infrastructure for Spain et al, when our own are crumbling!



You are right ...this could be in a different thread, but I have to say I dont feel like I am suffering terribly in 4th richest nation in the world and I get to build infrastucture and help another country is like heaven to me...but hey! we are all different!

Funnily enough, often the people that complain about having to pay to assist other countries are the very same people that complain about investing in our OWN infrastucture in our OWN country and vote accordingly...it just doesnt wash :lol: They maybe also, incidentally, be the first to look for the cheapest Polak to do their building works ;)

But many middle-class little Englanders were more then happy to employ a Polish plumber, cleaner, builder etc, and pay them shit when the times were good, but suddenly its "lets pack them all off home, scrounging foreigners!" when the going gets tough....

You are right ...this could be in a different thread, but I have to say I dont feel like I am suffering terribly in 4th richest nation in the world and I get to build infrastucture and help another country is like heaven to me...but hey! we are all different!

4th richest by GDP perhaps, not by GDP per capita or PPP. By GDP per capita wiki says we are 18th.

Even that doesn't tell the whole story because the UK cost of living and standard of living (health care, dentistry, population density etc. etc.) is worse than many if not most developed countries.

"You are right ...this could be in a different thread, but I have to say I dont feel like I am suffering terribly in 4th richest nation in the world and I get to build infrastucture and help another country is like heaven to me...but hey! we are all different!

Funnily enough, often the people that complain about having to pay to assist other countries are the very same people that complain about investing in our OWN infrastucture in our OWN country and vote accordingly...it just doesnt wash They maybe also, incidentally, be the first to look for the cheapest Polak to do their building works "



And that was a party political broadcast on behalf of the SkyscraperCity.com party.

But many middle-class little Englanders were more then happy to employ a Polish plumber, cleaner, builder etc, and pay them shit when the times were good, but suddenly its "lets pack them all off home, scrounging foreigners!" when the going gets tough....
Not me.

I just take issue with the UK taxpayer funding nice new roads and infrastructure for Spain et al, when our own are crumbling!

Youre barking up the wrong tree.
The French Ze Germans The Dutch etc all give large amounts of money to the EU and yet they manage to build high speed railways and new roads in their own countries.If you want someone to blame then blame government & nimbys.

Are you characterising all of those who disagree with the influx of immigrants as xenophobic?

You make it sound as if Britains borders are wide open to anyone and everyone.They arent.

BTW most immigrants in the UK come not from Poland Pakistan Africa but from Ireland France & Germany.

-

Some Brits are so pathetically ignorant its scary.

BTW most immigrants in the UK come not from Poland Pakistan Africa but from Ireland France & Germany.No they don't. The figures you are refereing to are about descent and even on that score they look inaccurate.

The figures you are refereing to are about descent and even on that score they look inaccurate.

There was BBC article about this couple of years ago which said what I just said.

A reality check please: the so-called wealth of this country was taken from colonies during the time of empire. 'Our' wealth was at the expense of vast numbers of others in Africa, India et al. It is quite possible that we may now be on the way to becoming a much poorer country in a post Peak Oil world where we have decreasing access to it on the world market. I suggest we treat people, from wherever, with equality and the respect we ourselves expect when we go abroad. A time may come, not too distant when we will need all the help we can get.


... and ... oh yea ... the Shard ... what was it we were talking about?

Some Brits are so pathetically ignorant it's scary.

Well I certainly agree with that. But perhaps not in the way you mean.

Apparently there's a thread for a large development next to London Bridge station.

Its by an Italian Architect for a British developer backed with Qatari money.
Its being constructed with British Steel and piling is being done by a British company with cladding & lifts by several European firms.Overseen by a British Project manager.

Apparently its such a large project it involves multinational companies with employees from around the world & the construction work force will have mix of British & foreign workers just like something like 201BG was.

Anybody know where I cant find that thread? ;)

I see what you did there ;) And I have no problem with any of that - without foreigners we would have few skyscrapers in London beyond Tower 42 after all. It doesn't contradict my points though.

"You are right ...this could be in a different thread, but I have to say I dont feel like I am suffering terribly in 4th richest nation in the world and I get to build infrastucture and help another country is like heaven to me...but hey! we are all different!

Funnily enough, often the people that complain about having to pay to assist other countries are the very same people that complain about investing in our OWN infrastucture in our OWN country and vote accordingly...it just doesnt wash They maybe also, incidentally, be the first to look for the cheapest Polak to do their building works "



And that was a party political broadcast on behalf of the SkyscraperCity.com party.

^^^ This bloke is a fucking nutter...go see the thread he set up called Britain under a labour Gov. and be prepared for a shock...in fact have a look at all his posts

I suspect he may be a sociapath?

Apparently there's a thread for a large development next to London Bridge station.

Its by an Italian Architect for a British developer backed with Qatari money.
Its being constructed with British Steel and piling is being done by a British company with cladding & lifts by several European firms.Overseen by a British Project manager.

Apparently its such a large project it involves multinational companies with employees from around the world & the construction work force will have mix of British & foreign workers just like something like 201BG was.

Anybody know where I cant find that thread? ;)


:weirdo: :lol: Well said Sir!

There was BBC article about this couple of years ago which said what I just said.Link to it then. Sorry but mass immigration is a relatively recent phenomenon. There may be lots of people with a scrap of foreign descent in them going back generations but they should not be counted the same as someone wholly of foreign descent. For instance I'm a 32ndth Italian (ie ~3%) and I have some tiny scrap of Irish too. How accurate a picture is built if I get to tick both the "Irish" and "Italian" box on a survey wheras someone of 100% Indian descent only gets to tick one box once? And yet that's exactly what they've done! That's precisely why the figures are so badly distorted. There was C18th and C19th immigration from France and Germany but it was on a trivial scale compared to more recent flows from the Commonwealth. To state that the UK has more French and German immigrants than Indians, Pakistanis, or Africans is total nonsense. The reverse is true.

A reality check please: the so-called wealth of this country was taken from colonies during the time of empire. 'Our' wealth was at the expense of vast numbers of others in Africa, India et al.Actually the dissemination of industrial world technologies to places like Africa and India was greatly accelerated by the British Empire. Their economic development was rapid under British rule. The reason they fell further behind was because of the transformative rapidity of economic growth brought about by industrialisation (something completely unprecented in world history). Without the Empire the gap would have been greater still. The Empire also meant that places like Africa and India received a far greater share of the global investment pie than they do today where the overwhelming majority of global investment flows between rich countries and other rich countries. On the eve of independence, Africa accounted for a significantly larger share of the global economy than it does today. Africa's economy has, in relative terms, actually shrunk in the 40-50 years since independence. Nor was Britain's rapid industrialisation dependent on the ownership of vast overseas colonies. The critical resources that fueled the Industrial Revolution (coal, iron ore, etc) were sourced locally. Germany, the second European country to industrialise after Britain, never had a significant overseas empire. Indeed some economists argue that Germany's economy was able to catch up with Britain's precisely because too much British investment was diverted to colonial cash crops and too much British talent diverted to colonial administration and the military. Without the Empire, a greater share of British investment and talent would have gone into domestic industry which would have enabled Britain to better withstand competition from the emerging industrial economies of Germany and the US.

Anyway, I digress. Back to all this encourgaing news on one of the world's sexiest skyscraper projects. If Boris does pull TFL out, the Shard will probably go ahead anyway. However I'd still much prefer him not to pull out. The Shard could do with some easy passage after so much struggle. Hopefully Boris can appreciate that this is a once-in-a-lifetime transformative building. It would show a lack of vision to do anything that may threaten its full and proper realisation.

If not seen yet...



I think this will be fine!

oh and, normally i agree, skyscrapers need to be clustered to have a good effect, however i think the shard will look so much better across the thames away from the city on its own. The pinacle will also compliment it in close matching heights. Plus its not actually that far from each other!

Totally agree. This is not a cluster-type skyscraper.

Actually the dissemination of industrial world technologies to places like Africa and India was greatly accelerated by the British Empire..


I believe a lot of what you say is true...it also grieves me no end to hear from some that blame the past for everthing that happens today...look at Mugabe!

Still, there is no pretending that Britain was out just to save the world. Britain was there because is felt superior and wanted the glory of "civilising savages' st teh same time as gaining goodies.

The Shard is a great example of how the world turns. Now, some ex British Colonies (not sure which is which in the middle east) are injecting their monies and wealth into our projects. Same scenario though...it s not out of some auturistic sentiment..its an investment and a way to ensure income and obtain collateral for after the oil has run out.

Britain did very well out of its colonies...after all, noone else before or after could claim that they "owned" 3/5th of the world!!

Let's nail the lie about, "foreigners": If it wasn't for the constant replenishment that foreign resources and people have brought to this country for hundreds of years we would, by now, be a provincial backwater and London would be a sad and decaying city.

And, perhaps it's been said already, without Italian architects and Arab investors, high-rise in London would be screwed.

Still, there is no pretending that Britain was out just to save the world. Britain was there because is felt superior and wanted the glory of "civilising savages' st teh same time as gaining goodies.

Of course, Britain was there to make money. The majority of time it didn't involve large amounts of troops on the ground (there were never more than 250,000 troops controlling the whole of India)

What is the point of an empire if it doesn't enrich you? The British Empire was a trading empire rather than having an aim of 'civilising the savages'. If they couldn't make money out of it, they weren't to be found.

Let's nail the lie about, "foreigners": If it wasn't for the constant replenishment that foreign resources and people have brought to this country for hundreds of years we would, by now, be a provincial backwater and London would be a sad and decaying city.


No different to most countries in the world then. However, in actual terms in the 1800's - Empire was not a huge chunk of the countries wealth by any means.

The biggest factor was being able to trade goods with those countries. A lot of goods produced in the UK were sold in India for example.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1912ShardSecuresFinalBatchOfFunding_pic1.jpg

Anyway back on topic, I think.

in my opinion... this building only suits sitting next to mid rises and nothing else above its waist. It is pretty much what the aethetics are meant for as it narrows into the sky above all surrounding.
I am in love with it!

Baby Shard looks like a squat munchkin. the Shard really needs to sit alone, unencumbered by other midrises, and beautiful in its solititude.

N.B. Is a skyscraper a boy or a girl. Can we start with a 'she's a beauty', or is that wrong. Technically the whole idea of elevation and height seems to be more masculine. Hmmm, something to ponder for say, the next 30 seconds.

they are not called erections for nothing :sleepy:

The new access ramp within the railway arches is now complete and the scaffolding that has been half blocking St Thomas Street for the last year has now gone, revealing that the brickwork around the new opening to the ramp that I posted some time ago has been rebuilt rather beautifully. :) I would imagine that this means the old access ramp to Southwark Towers will be biting the dust pretty soon along with the section at the end of the new pedestrian walkway.

will be there with my camera in about 10 hours :)
will put the pics up in a few days

i cant wait to start seing films for some reason with this included, i can imagine some amazing shots over new london in an action scene with the shard and pinnicle and some crazy helicopter views over it!

random for me to start talking about, but i think more films will be directed in london once these beasts become errected!

maybe the next bond film?

wasnt the millenium dome used ages ago when that first opened?

will be there with my camera in about 10 hours :)
will put the pics up in a few days

good dedication there old bean. I fear though, that is still a couple of floors from the basement and they might have been fairly quiet on site over the holiday period.

good dedication there old bean. I fear though, that is still a couple of floors from the basement and they might have been fairly quiet on site over the holiday period.

:cheers:

saturday.

it wasn't very productive but here's some for the archive for before they started constructing britain's tallest building! :)

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7129%20copy.jpg

^walking out of london bridge tube (joiner street)

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7130%20copy.jpg

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7133%20copy.jpg

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7134%20copy.jpg

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7136%20copy.jpg

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7138%20copy.jpg

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7139%20copy.jpg

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7144%20copy.jpg

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7146%20copy.jpg

^st. thomas st

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7147%20copy.jpg

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7149%20copy.jpg

:)

http://www.nickgrayson.net/ssc/27_12_2008%20london/shard%20london%20bridge%20tower%20demolition/IMG_7134%20copy.jpg http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9858/thiefgx6.jpg

:shifty:

edit

Great pictures, that picture of Guys Hospital really shows how dreadful it really is, a redevelopment can't come soon enough! I notice on the webcams they were working today, for the first time since Christmas Day, good to see.

Great pictures, that picture of Guys Hospital really shows how dreadful it really is, a redevelopment can't come soon enough!

Nonsense, it just needs a clean.

twighlight 2008 is right..horrible building that looks like a glorified multi-story car park. probably a deep clean inside would be appropriate though.

Yes Guys just needs a clean.... the majority of the tower is quite easy to clean with all the balconys the overhanging lift core section might be tricky though :D

Apparently piling was due to start today, does anyone know if that is the case? Or have they delayed it? Pics of the site would be appreciated. :)

Nope Demo hasn't finished yet.

From the webcam.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p49/zedferret/slb1.jpg

At last! Thanks Zedferret

What is the url for the cam?

You will find the webcams here http://shardlondonbridge.com/.
Go to 'visualisation' and 'live site cams'.

They aren't going to wait for piling to start until the whole site is clear, they will start on the clear part of the site, while the reat is demolished, finish the first part, and then do the rest. That is the plan, said by the developers beforehand.

There is a conceret raft being built along London bridge street behind hoardings, most of the old building is now gone

from the pinnacle thread:

http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=29&storycode=3130917&c=0

Brookfield to build Pinnacle for £575m in City…

09 January 2009

By David Rogers

Australian contractor Brookfield has signed a deal to build the Pinnacle – the tallest building in the City of London – for about £575m.

The firm, which changed its name from Multiplex last year, agreed a maximum price with developer Arab Investments just before Christmas. The figure is understood to be £75m higher than initially expected.

Brookfield was originally chosen to build the 63-storey scheme in Bishopsgate in summer 2007 and the developer had hoped the job would be completed by 2011. But delays in signing off the deal mean it is now set to finish in early 2013.

Mace has been overseeing the demolition and groundworks, which are being carried out by Keltbray, for more than a year under a construction management deal but will hand over to Brookfield next Thursday.

Ashley Muldoon, the managing director of Brookfield’s construction business in the UK, said: “We’re pleased to have signed the contract with Arab Investments and look forward to supporting them in the development of the tower.”

The firm has let most of the main subcontracts on the 288m-high tower. Dutch contractor Hollandia, which worked with Brookfield on Wembley Stadium, and Belgian firm Victor Buyck will carry out steelwork as a joint venture, having previously worked together on the Gherkin. Permasteelisa subsidiary Gartner will carry out the cladding.

Meanwhile, Mace is expected to sign a deal to build the 310m-high Shard in London Bridge within the next week. According to sources close to the project, the scheme’s funders are close to agreeing a price of about £425m for the tower.

w/ thanks to london lad. :)

The big boss at SE1 noticed this that some might find interesting ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00grn07

Interesting, I'll be tuning in! Ive never watched the Culture Show but I definitely am this time.

WOW £125m more than the Shard, but 100ft shorter
I would have thought the Shard would be a more complex project.

Anyway.....

:banana::banana::banana:

Ive never watched the Culture Show .

Really? ;)

Interesting, I'll be tuning in! Ive never watched the Culture Show but I definitely am this time.

Cant find the programme on the tv listings?

Cant find the programme on the tv listings?

Its on the website.

13 Jan 2009, 22:00 on BBC Two (except Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland (Analogue))