sorry mate, but that's defeatist tripe. The demolition contract itself is agreed and covered by the bridge financing facility provided by KSF and Nationwide, and if anything is certain in this world, we'll see Keltbray take the current building down. One step at a time. Cladding and steel contracts are also close to being signed. I can't see why Teignmore would push ahead like that signing contracts left right and centre in the market if they really thought that the project was dead and unable to secure funding. The scheme is eminently fundable - just needs a big balled bank to make the jump into bed with Sellar and Halabi.

Jimbo, I hope your right, I am last person on this forum to give up any of the projects, but I fear as long as HALIBI is involved in this project, it won't secure funding.
It really needs a by out now.

The demolition of Southwark Towers is happening no matter what. So they have the demolition time at the very least to sort something out. I know things seem shaky atm but this tower is an almost guaranteed profit for someone - they just need to step in with the money. I think funding can definitely be found, the only thing that truly threatens this project in my view is the infighting, but I don't think any of them have come this far just to roll over and give up on this at the very brink.

We've waited a long time, but give it 6 months and I feel we'll finally get to watch this wonderful building rise.

While his building is in serious trouble and has no funding, What's Sellars doing?............Yes u guessed it, he's picked another fight and is now suing his lawyers.............what an asshole:bash:

Who the hell is going to lend money to this twat, all he seems to like doing is taking people to court.

Maybe the best result would in fact be that Sellar and Halabi completely blow up...then someone with half a brain could step in and buy them out...

Even if the worst case scenerio happens and they don't build the shard, they're still going to take down Southwark Tower and leave an large vacant plot of land right in the middle of central London which has already received planning permission for a 307m tower on the site.

It might be empty for a few years (possibly useful for the redevelopment of London Bridge station itself though) but then someone will notice is again and come up with plans for something there ready for the next property cycle.

MORE LONDON 2 :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:

From today's Evening Standard

Shard backer CLS warns global worries taking toll

Property group CLS, one of the backers of the Shard of Glass tower, today warned the US mortgage crisis was having a major impact on its business. The UK commercial property market was facing particularly tough times, he said: "This less-optimistic outlook may continue due to the recent concerns in the global finance market triggered by the falls in US subprime mortgage lending."

However, the company said it was confident the Shard would go ahead. Funding options were still under review, it said. Pre-tax profits fell 43.8% to £31.9 million in the six months to the end of June. Net rental income was down 2.4% at £32.4 million because of the sale of a property portfolio.

another report mentioned that they said...

"it(CLS) is well placed to take advantage of opportunities from the current market uncertainty"

"The company also said it will continue to selectively acquire assets in its main European markets and to look for new investment opportunities both in terms of product and location"

CLS Holdings Interim Report published on LSE website

Environmental initiatives

We are fully committed to the provision of environmentally safe and energy
efficient buildings. The Shard, for instance, is designed to incorporate a host
of environmental and energy saving features including a cooling radiator, an
externally ventilated cladding system and combined heat and power boilers that comply with latest sustainability proposals.

We are hoping to utilise a low energy screen at One Leicester Square to promote public awareness of environmental issues and have applied to Westminster Council for the appropriate permission.

The London Bridge Quarter Project

We have continued to work with our partners to progress the London Bridge
Quarter project which encompasses The Shard and New London Bridge House.
Operational progress has proceeded according to programme and we are ready to commence demolition works at The Shard. Negotiations in respect of the funding for the project are at an advanced stage but have, unfortunately, been affected by the recent adverse credit markets. It is hoped that the funding can be finalised in the near future in conjunction with a restructuring of the shareholding structure. We will not commence any major development works until the loan finance has been secured.

As at 30 June 2007, the adjusted net asset value of £613.3 million included £
59.0 million in respect of The Shard and New London Bridge House, equating to 83.6 pence or 9.6 per cent of overall adjusted NAV per share of 868.6 pence. The charge to Finance expense for the six months included £2.3 million
representing our one third share of interest expense charged to the project. We have to date invested cash of £10.5 million into the project from our own
resources and have not entered into any guarantees relating to London Bridge
Quarter.

During the first half of the year we have also been investigating the options for our Hoskyns House site in Vauxhall where the current occupational leases expire in 2009. The property currently comprises a series of low rise office and warehouse buildings. Located close to Vauxhall Mainline and Underground Stations, the site has the scope to be redeveloped to provide a higher density of new building and a mix of uses including commercial, residential, retail and leisure. All such redevelopment options, together with the ongoing discussions with our existing occupiers will continue into the second half of 2007.

We have continued to work with our joint venture partners to carry forward the London Bridge Quarter Project, comprising the London Bridge Tower (The Shard) and the adjoining 25 London Bridge Street. Once complete these two Renzo Piano designed buildings will provide 176,514 sq m / 1,900,000 sq ft gross of high quality office, hotel, residential, retail and leisure uses immediately adjacent to London Bridge Mainline and Underground Station.

At London Bridge Tower (The Shard), PwC will be vacating the existing office
building on the site this month thus allowing the enabling and demolition works
to begin in the final half of the year.

At 25 London Bridge Street, a revised planning application was submitted in
April and was subsequently passed for approval by Southwark Council at
Committee in early July. This new application achieves the same gross floor
area but within an entirely new roof profile, incorporating two new roof
terraces and improved external facades.

The funding options for both projects are under review with a view to achieving completion before 2012.

During the first half the vacancy rate across the UK portfolio has reduced from 8.2 per cent to 6.5 per cent

God this is a tough one - I am an optimist one day and a total pessimist the next - this project is enough to make anyone scitzo. It's been a tough week with a possible Leadenhall delay, Beetham and the vauxhall tower issues and mostly the credit crunch and I am pretty sure we will see a substantial house price drop in London (at least I hope so). It will be much tougher to get financing for the shard. After saying all of that I still am air on the side of optimism when it comes to this project.:)

^^

If that is in their interim report they filed with the LSE, then you can assume it paints the picture as it is. There would be too much liability to be too rosy in their statements. So overall somewhat positive news I would say (but they probably are upset with themselves for not having sorted out their differences before the credit crisis started).

Pic of the site from the Gherkin- Hopefully in the next few years a fully lit 51 Lime St, 20FC & Shard will be in view.

http://i17.************/6arawat.jpg

God this is a tough one - I am an optimist one day and a total pessimist the next - this project is enough to make anyone scitzo. It's been a tough week with a possible Leadenhall delay, Beetham and the vauxhall tower issues and mostly the credit crunch and I am pretty sure we will see a substantial house price drop in London (at least I hope so). It will be much tougher to get financing for the shard. After saying all of that I still am air on the side of optimism when it comes to this project.:)

absolutely - couldn't have put it much better. Tis an up and down thing, but to be fair, I get much more negativity from this forum than I do talking to my company's structured property investment team and reading the market press.

Some boards have gone up, hope this is useful.
I have got some photos but I am not sure how to attach them.

I get much more negativity from this forum than I do talking to my company's structured property investment team

same here... but then those guys know about property and most of the people here are just picking over shit written in the evening standard. quite sad really.

some of the latest press coverage :(
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=aaVT2z2Djk4U&refer=uk
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/09/17/bcnshard117.xml
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article2973636.ece

Here's the Telegraph one. Bleh. But on the positive side, they do still seem very keen on building it, just struggling to tie up the credit.

London's tallest skyscraper grounded by global credit crunch

By Angela Monaghan
Last Updated: 1:09am BST 18/09/2007

Plans for The Shard, London's tallest skyscraper, have been delayed after its developers failed to secure funding for it in the midst of the global credit crunch.


Developers are under pressure to complete construction by 2011
Construction work on the £1bn Shard at London Bridge was expected to start two weeks ago, but those involved in the project have been told demolition will not begin until at least mid-October.

Sten Mortstedt, chairman of CLS Holdings which has a one-third stake in the 72-storey tower, said: "Negotiations in respect of the funding for The Shard are at an advanced stage but have been affected by the recent adverse credit markets.

The news came as CLS' announced its interim results.

Mr Mortstedt added: "We will not commence any major development works until the loan finance has been secured."

Entrepreneurs Simon Halabi and Irvine Sellar are joint venture developers with CLS, and construction group Mace, which is also part of the delivery team for the 2012 Olympics, is both project and construction manager.

Sources close to the project said that a Middle Eastern bank had been undertaking due diligence on The Shard for three months, but that a funding package had not been agreed because of the deepening crisis in the financial markets.

One source, who declined to be named, said: "It is 50/50 whether work starts in October. The funders are spending more time carrying out checks, verifying the programme and costs."

Transport for London and hotel operator Shangri La have been lined up as tenants for The Shard, and pressure is on the developers to press ahead and complete it on time – by the end of 2011, in time for the 2012 Olympic Games in London.

PricewaterhouseCoopers moved out of the exisiting building south of London Bridge earlier this month.

CLS said that to date it had invested £10.5m cash into The Shard. It reported an adjusted net asset value per share of 868.6p in the six months to 30 June, up 5.4pc.

Pre-tax profit however fell by 43.8pc to £31.9m.

Here we go.
http://personal.rhul.ac.uk/uhaa/037/img_0261.jpg

http://personal.rhul.ac.uk/uhaa/037/img_0260.jpg

http://personal.rhul.ac.uk/uhaa/037/img_0268.jpg

Well, that's certainly good to see, at least...

Knowing our luck they'll give up on the Shard and just build the baby one instead and afterwards propose a similar building for the site of the tower. :D

The boards have been there for some time. However, along with emptying the offices some of the retail units on the station concourse which are at the base of the tower have also now shut. So lack of rental income is in effect a hefty cost they will be currently paying.

I think demolition will go ahead as it is too expensive to leave doing nothing. Selling it on looks to be as complicated as building it. With the markets as they are a slight delay was inevitable. It still looks viable to me.

All I can say is how fucking DEPRESING is this. Looking at the world forums and seeing the speed of some of those projects from concept to construction makes this even worse.

Unfortunately this credit crises is a necessary evil – we can’t keep on piling up dept and house prices cannot keep on going up – it does us all more harm than good in the long run. Our only hope is, the finanancial markets stabalise and that they really are in ADVANCED talks with this middle eastern banks and that the banks and partners are just using this as leverage to get Halabi out before they will lock in the financing.

Fingers crossed. If not I have wasted way too much of my life following this fiasco.

It will be built, but not by the Olympics.

It's going to be awful seeing it only under construction during the Olympics.

lol awful?!?!? I'll be ecstatic to see it being built full stop!!

It will be built

I hope so!

Shard bankers give Halabi 10 days to sell

By Danny Fortson
Published: 18 September 2007
The banks behind The Shard skyscraper have given Simon Halabi 10 days to sell out his one-third holding in the project, according to a key partner in the development to build Europe's tallest building.

Sten Mortstedt, the executive chairman of CLS, a partner on the project, said: "The banks don't want to have him in. He has got an offer from a third party to buy his shares, and he must decide within 10 days whether to accept."

http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article2973636.ece

Middle East backer could lift Shard off the ground

James Rossiter,
Property Correspondent
Construction of Britain’s tallest building, the “Shard of Glass”, has ground to a halt over funding difficulties.

The three owners of the planned 310m (1,016ft) skyscraper at London Bridge are in talks with a new Middle Eastern backer to buy a one-third stake in the scheme owned by Simon Halabi. A deal may help to kick-start the troubled funding talks.
.............

“We are in final negotiations with a bank and a new owner partner,” Mr Mortstedt said. Asked if the new owner would replace Mr Halabi, he replied: “Correct - he has to say yes or no to an offer.” The other backer is Sellar Property Group, but Mr Mortstedt said that he was happy with this company as an ongoing partner.

The new owner “has very deep pockets”, Mr Mortstedt said, and is understood to come from the Middle East. A five-year development loan is needed, worth about £350 million.

.......................

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/construction_and_property/article2477876.ece

Hopefully Halabi will sell. That could very well make the differance between this going ahead and being cancelled, and we should know in 10 days. He better not screw this up, the ball is in his court now.

And it looks like this new investor could fund it him(or her)self

Thank god for middle eastern investors.

if he doesnt sell hes fucked. simple as that. he NEEDS the money if the state of his empire is to believed.

I think it's dancing banana time......

This is stupid, London being the financial capital, brining in 20 something billion pounds last year in to the uk, and they cant even expand the city of London in to a modern Skyscraper city, with profits as of last year were at a high, something like 40 million pound bonuses going out, and people carnt stake a simple building project. Think we need the bank of England to get us out of this, “think there doing loans now” but lets hope mr halabi gets booted out of this one, and for the trusty middle east bankers to come in, which they should!! We all hope

I think it's dancing banana time......

I think its your time for that one, let your happiness out!

We should know within two weeks wether this will be a go or a no-go. This is very exciting/scary!

I reckon Halabi will sell up, for the reasons Gothic mentioned.

All I can say is how fucking DEPRESING is this. Looking at the world forums and seeing the speed of some of those projects from concept to construction makes this even worse.

I totally agree. The Russia Tower has begun now hasn't it? Shame everyone will now believe us Brits stole the shape of the Shard from Moscow's tallest.

Piano's Shard will be built, says Ken
18 September, 2007

By Helen Crump

Mayor of London Ken Livingstone has guaranteed his support for Renzo Piano’s troubled Shard skyscraper.

Speaking at the launch of his first ever housing plan, the mayor said he had “no intention” of withdrawing from Transport for London’s commitment to take up a large amount of office space in the tower, which would be London’s first skyscraper with a public viewing point.

Speculation has been building in recent weeks over funding difficulties for the 310m-high building.

“I do think the Shard will be built,” Livingstone said. “It will be for London what the Empire State Building is for New York.”

The news came as the mayor said he would drive up the quality of new homes, revealing a massive building programme, including boosting by 50,000 the number of affordable homes built by 2011.

The draft housing strategy demands that increased supply be matched by high quality design and construction.

In the document, Livingstone pledges to improve the quality of new homes, neighbourhoods and the associated public realm, to continue to support and promote the design principles associated with the London Plan, and to fund only those schemes which “as a minimum” comply with Code for Sustainable Homes targets.

A new “innovation and opportunity fund” is to be set up to support projects delivering “exemplary environmental design standards earlier than the target dates”.

Speaking at the launch, Livingstone said the abolition of Parker Morris standards had been a “tragedy”, but added that standards had been rebuilt over the past decade.

He said: “My objective is that always we should be absolutely at the front of whatever standard the government is setting and if anything, a bit in front of it.”

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=725&storycode=3095575&c=1&encCode=000000000139ccc3

Piano's Shard will be built, says Ken
18 September, 2007

By Helen Crump

Mayor of London Ken Livingstone has guaranteed his support for Renzo Piano’s troubled Shard skyscraper.

Speaking at the launch of his first ever housing plan, the mayor said he had “no intention” of withdrawing from Transport for London’s commitment to take up a large amount of office space in the tower, which would be London’s first skyscraper with a public viewing point.

Speculation has been building in recent weeks over funding difficulties for the 310m-high building.

“I do think the Shard will be built,” Livingstone said. “It will be for London what the Empire State Building is for New York.”

The news came as the mayor said he would drive up the quality of new homes, revealing a massive building programme, including boosting by 50,000 the number of affordable homes built by 2011.

The draft housing strategy demands that increased supply be matched by high quality design and construction.

In the document, Livingstone pledges to improve the quality of new homes, neighbourhoods and the associated public realm, to continue to support and promote the design principles associated with the London Plan, and to fund only those schemes which “as a minimum” comply with Code for Sustainable Homes targets.

A new “innovation and opportunity fund” is to be set up to support projects delivering “exemplary environmental design standards earlier than the target dates”.

Speaking at the launch, Livingstone said the abolition of Parker Morris standards had been a “tragedy”, but added that standards had been rebuilt over the past decade.

He said: “My objective is that always we should be absolutely at the front of whatever standard the government is setting and if anything, a bit in front of it.”

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=725&storycode=3095575&c=1&encCode=000000000139ccc3

All the more reason to vote for Ken in the next elections! Somehow I can't see an Old Etonian being the most responsive to skyscrapers in the capital.

And to quote Boris with regards to some of the above news, YAROOOOO!

marvellous stuff, poor old Halabi. As said all along - the project is economic and fundable, the triumvirate of development partners was not market standard, and a certain someone has been on the City downers list for quite some time. Well done to all who have dug up and posted the storys.

as i said yesterday, the ups and downs in here are like my nerves when overtaking a taxi on the strand. tingletastic. Give it time guys, give it time. I wager we'll even get a smile out of DarJoLe at somepoint before Xmas.

Sell sell sell!!!

if he dosn't sell it would be suicide for him, as I said yesterday as long as he's involved no one will lend this project any money, and he will end up millions of pounds out of pocket.

I see nobody have dared to post dancing bananas yet :shifty:

I see nobody have dared to post dancing bananas yet :shifty:

damn right - not pessimistic, just don't want to jynx it. who knows what halabi is thinking, and whether he will do the sensible thing.

we'll have to know one way or another very soon, though - after all, the project can't get significant further delays without running into the 2012 issue - can't imagine shangri-la wanting to open their shiny new hotel just after the olympics...

i'll be wheeling out either the dancing fruit or the suicidal smiley pretty soon, i feel.

Qatar is secret Shard investor

07:59 | 19.09.07

The Qatari government has emerged as the secret investor set to buy the one-third stake in the Shard of Glass development from Simon Halabi. Financial Times


The investment arm of the Qatari government is understood to have nudged ahead of rival Pramerica, the US financial institution, to secure the stake in the Cit of London skyscraper scheme.

Halabi fell out with the other two partners in the scheme, CLS and Sellar Properties, in a long-running dispute over the respective sizes of stake and project management fees.

God all the news about this is coming thick and fast now... I am seriously on tenterhooks waiting to hear whether this will finally get the green light. :nuts: I suppose this is too specialist a subject for the bookies to offer odds on it? Does anyone know?

Qatar emerges as secret investor in Shard of Glass

By Jim Pickard

Published: September 19 2007 03:00 | Last updated: September 19 2007 03:00

The Qatari government has emerged as the secret investor set to buy a stake in the Shard of Glass development from Simon Halabi, the Syrian-born investor.

It is understood that the investment arm of the Qatari government has nudged ahead of rival Pramerica, the US financial institution, to secure the one-third stake.


Mr Halabi fell out with the other two partners in the scheme, CLS and Sellar Properties, in a long-running spat involving arbitration over the respective sizes of stake and project management fees. He is also nursing considerable losses after buying Esporta, the sports club chain, from Duke Street Capital for £476m last November. Esporta has since gone into administration.

Candy & Candy is likely to provide the luxury flats in the development of the 1,016ft skyscraper at London Bridge. The Candy brothers are backed by the Qatari government over their development of 1 Hyde Park, a luxury project in Knightsbridge. The government is also joining forces with the brothers over the £900m purchase of Chelsea Barracks.

CLS said on Monday market turmoil was affecting funding for the Shard of Glass. Development work would not proceed until loan finance was secured.

Credit Suisse has been in talks to provide debt to the consortium but wants to see the outcome of Mr Halabi’s stake resolved.

The Shard is one of several new schemes to change the face of London’s skyline. The credit squeeze of recent weeks has raised new questions about such schemes, both in terms of financing and tenant demand.*Metrovacesa, the Spanish property company, is understood to have won the battle for No 1 Walbrook, a 1m sq ft office redevelopment in the City of London.

The Bucklersbury House site is one of the Square Mile’s biggest development sites, with an estimated completion value of £1bn.

I think there should be a statue of Ken and Lawrence of Arabia outside LBT once it is built!

Candy & Candy is likely to provide the luxury flats in the development of the 1,016ft skyscraper at London Bridge. The Candy brothers are backed by the Qatari government over their development of 1 Hyde Park, a luxury project in Knightsbridge.


... and we know how expensive they are. Now just imagine what the apartments in LBT will sell for.

I can't believe it, it looks like she could actually get the funding she needs. :crosses fingers:

the suspense is worse than that experienced during the PI!

If there's a fly on the wall being filmed it'll be full of action

This soap opera is addictive - Finger Crossed, but not a banana quite yet!

You know, this whole saga would actually make a brilliant documentary, we've had years of suspense, mystery and intrigue...an hour's primetime, at least. ;)

the suspense is worse than that experienced during the PI!

Hmm... not really. I think it's becoming more and more obvious the Shard will receive the funding it needs. It's already two-thirds of the way there, and Halabi seems to be in the position where he's forced to sell up. Also if the Qatari government withdraw their offer, Pramerica could always step in. This situation feels pretty safe to me now, and there's a kind of inevitability about the whole process.

The PI on the other hand was genuine cliff-hanger stuff - the whole project was in danger of being killed there and then with no hope of recovery.

^^

Very true fox, I think to say that it seems that after years in the doldrums this project may yet see the light of day, or indeed, it may not! I'm beginning to become quietly confident in the status of this and I feel that we owe the Gulf States some credit after supporting Heron, Bishopsgate and now finally the Shard. Yet I think that it is safe to say that nothing will be certain until we have a few stories of steel work going up. At the end of this saga, the least we will end up with is a large plot of prime real estate and the new London Bridge Station.

the gulf states are only doing it because they can make money out of it. their islamic banking systems are not based around debt either like ours are which helps.

so that'll be the qatar investment authority then, which is also rumoured to be considering taking a major stake in the london stock exchange. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118998004867528984.html

it's sitting on a lot of money: would be a very solid investor indeed, and i think it would be excellent news for the shard.

:hm:

I feel that we owe the Gulf States some credit after supporting Heron, Bishopsgate and now finally the Shard.

And 1 Blackfriars too.

And 1 Blackfriars too.

Although its the Germans providing the finance ;)

Soon there will be a que of investors wanting to buy Halabi share, now they know he is no longer a partner, i know if i had the money i would be all in !

there is a queue. the qataris are the preferred bidders which means they offered more than anyone else!

So, does anyone think Halabi WON'T sell up?

I have a nagging thought that he may be awkward/petty, and, realising he can't be a part of it himself, will refuse to sell in order to get it canclled. Can anyone say for certain he won't do that? Please?

well the banks have told him to sell. he has a hole in his accounts and needs the money. the partnership i suspect will also be structured in such a way that if one partner were to crash the project the other two would sue them for their losses.

I'm very late to this but have been reading from the sidelines. What exactly is wrong with Halabi?

Good stuff Gothic:)

Cylon, I'm not 100% but I think Halabi has been the cause of a number of disputes among the partners, and has recently lost shit loads on another development. Gothic can fill you in better.

halabi bought a sports chain which has gone bust. hes lost lots of money as a result and has a gaping hole in his accounts. my guess from this talk of the banks telling him to sell up is that his share in teighmore is his other big asset and the only thing that can stop his company from falling into financial oblivion. at the same time lenders are being tighter about what they lend so halabi is now seen a massive risk to them and no one will give the rest of the consortium money because he is too big a risk.

My God no wonder everybody is scared!!

Gothic, in your professional opinion, what do you think the chances are of us actually getting LBT?

So, does anyone think Halabi WON'T sell up?

I have a nagging thought that he may be awkward/petty, and, realising he can't be a part of it himself, will refuse to sell in order to get it canclled. Can anyone say for certain he won't do that? Please?

that's pretty much what i'm afraid of. he might also refuse to sell if he believes that he'll still be able to play a part when the current market instability is out of the way. but i don't know him or how he thinks, and it's all just nervous speculation.

need a smiley called :paranoid:...

from everything i know... good. very good :)

need a smiley called :paranoid:...

How about this one:
http://www.brunkovac.com/slike/smilie/paranoid.gif

How about this one:
http://www.brunkovac.com/slike/smilie/paranoid.gif

thanks, that's about right. looks remarkably like me at the moment (not just for shard-related reasons).

in previous post i virtually said this project was dead due to the funding issue but from reports of arab interest and halibi sell sells his stake i am more than positive now that it will be built but and i say but only if halibi sell up.Which if his bank has advised him to he will.Fingers crossed

A free apartment in the first skyscraper I own* to the first person to post the news that Halabi has sold up. :D

*No cash alternative offered in the event of no skyscraper ownership ever occurring.

Well, this article from Reuters says the Qatari government have indeed 'secured' ther stake:

Link (http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2007-09-19T064405Z_01_L19701847_RTRIDST_0_FINANCIAL-CHATTER.XML)

** The investment arm of the Qatari government has secured a one-third stake in the Shard of Glass skyscraper development near London Bridge in the UK, the Financial Times reported, without citing any source.

But I think it may be a mistake though?

^^^ My new best friend :)

FT: Over the next 10 years, the QIA aims to safeguard living standards for its tiny population by investing in funds and assets across the globe. Its initial focus has been on the UK, ranging from high-profile real estate such as Chelsea Barracks, to a bid for J Sainsbury

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/beab8734-67da-11dc-8906-0000779fd2ac.html

halabi bought a sports chain which has gone bust.

Esporta gyms. From what I've heard of him, he doesn't sound like the type of bloke that I'd want to do business with and the banks stance indicates that they share this point of view.

Well, this article from Reuters says the Qatari government have indeed 'secured' ther stake:

Link (http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=2007-09-19T064405Z_01_L19701847_RTRIDST_0_FINANCIAL-CHATTER.XML)



But I think it may be a mistake though?

yeah I couldnt see anything in the previous two days FT newspapers just that piece of news on their website on the 19th saying that Qatar has emerged as the secret investor but no confirmation it had been finalised.

having said that Qatar investment bodies are involved in a 10 billion pound bid for Sainsburys and a joint bid for the LSE so the money they would have to lay down for the Shard actually looks like peanuts!

FT: Over the next 10 years, the QIA aims to safeguard living standards for its tiny population by investing in funds and assets across the globe. Its initial focus has been on the UK, ranging from high-profile real estate such as Chelsea Barracks, to a bid for J Sainsbury

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/beab8734-67da-11dc-8906-0000779fd2ac.html

I did wonder if these were the same people that are bidding for JS, in which case I hope they move their HQ back to the South Bank into the Shard, that way I might think about staying working for them so I can have an excuse to go in the Shard. :D

that's pretty much what i'm afraid of. he might also refuse to sell if he believes that he'll still be able to play a part when the current market instability is out of the way. but i don't know him or how he thinks, and it's all just nervous speculation.

need a smiley called :paranoid:...


But if he has a big whole in his accounts, if he doesn't sell his assets may end up being liquidated for him by his bank, at a lower value too. Though that would delay LBT, it's hardly a good option for Halabi.

I did wonder if these were the same people that are bidding for JS, in which case I hope they move their HQ back to the South Bank into the Shard, that way I might think about staying working for them so I can have an excuse to go in the Shard. :D

Indeed ...and I guess the difference is that Shard Ltd are crying out for investment, whilst JS is trying to stave off buyups.
As for HAlibi, I am sure he does not want to be the one to be seen to block such a lucrative project. Good reputation gets you a long way in the business world...especially more so in certain cultures. Look at Mr Al Fayed and his damaged reputation.

a side to the shard we don't normaly see

http://www.shardlondonbridge.com/images/left_bar/contact_open.jpg

Looks as though this one is in the bag.

Interestingly, if foreign investment was banned in the UK, London would have hardly any skyscrapers.

Canadian money in Olympia and York launched Canary Wharf, Saudi money rescued it in the mid 90s and made a fantastic return (!).

Swiss Re commissioned the Gherkin.

Heron is being financed by foreign investors

The Pinnacle is being financed by foreign investors

and now the London Bridge Tower is also being financed from abroad.

Why the British reluctance to build tall?

Broadgate was, obviously a massive project, funded by British Land, who will also be building 122 Leadenhall and have financed the Broadgate Tower.

Pre-Broadgate, the Natwest Tower and BT Tower are the only proper skyscrapers built in London.

Why the reticence to build tall? Regulatory, lack of ambition, London clay or economic?

it does seem weird that we cannot put the money forward to what obviously will be a success and rightly so? I think we are not experianced enough yet maybe to understand that something like this can be a success?

^^ With all due respect my dear delores - you can not have your cake and eat it! I have just been reading your comments in other threads about building new buildings in stone and brick and in a classical style. You have also been highly critical of glass and steel buildings and 'modern' architecture. This sceptism is par for the course in this country and leads to the kind of endless planning delays and fear on the part of developers that hampers so many of these schemes, and often kills them off entirely!

Looks as though this one is in the bag.

Interestingly, if foreign investment was banned in the UK, London would have hardly any skyscrapers.

Canadian money in Olympia and York launched Canary Wharf, Saudi money rescued it in the mid 90s and made a fantastic return (!).

Swiss Re commissioned the Gherkin.

Heron is being financed by foreign investors

The Pinnacle is being financed by foreign investors

and now the London Bridge Tower is also being financed from abroad.

Why the British reluctance to build tall?

Broadgate was, obviously a massive project, funded by British Land, who will also be building 122 Leadenhall and have financed the Broadgate Tower.

Pre-Broadgate, the Natwest Tower and BT Tower are the only proper skyscrapers built in London.

Why the reticence to build tall? Regulatory, lack of ambition, London clay or economic?


Considering that a tall building is more expensive than a midrise or a groundscraper, I may have an answer. British developers are short sighted and greedy, demanding high short term returns instead of investing for the long term return. They look more speculation focused.

Considering that a tall building is more expensive than a midrise or a groundscraper, I may have an answer. British developers are short sighted and greedy, demanding high short term returns instead of investing for the long term return. They look more speculation focused.

the reason we're not gone tall is purely on the grounds of precedence. London has grown outwards from its early beginnings. Many American and Australian (and Far Eastern come to think of it - Hong Kong / Singapore) are more recent, and in many cases are constrained by their geography and have thus grown upwards. London hasn't had that problem, there was no need to build tall and embrace the skyscraper revolution in the 1920s like NY because we had all the space we wanted, not limited to an island like Manhattan or penned in by the mountains and hills (Victoria Island part of Hong Kong. London's city fabric had already been developed (like Paris), and therefore the suggestion of plonking tall buildings in the centre of well planned, historic cities was incongruous. It has taken many years to recognise the merits of going tall, and that tall does not necessarily mean ugly, oppressive and overbearing. We've had a gradual evolution regarding high rise think, not an overnight paradigm shift. Along this way dissenters have made their feelings known and slowed progress, but IMO, Canary Wharf - and Pelli's beautiful pointed centrepiece has won lots of admiration which has been bolstered by 30 St Mary Axe and has now led to a more willing stance on high rise buildings, currently to be seen in the flesh (or steel) personified by Broadgate, the Pinnacle, 122 Leadenhall Street and of course the Shard.

Saying developers are short sighted and greedy ignores the huge change in mindset required to add eyecatching skyline behemoths to a city which has gradually evolved over hundreds and hundreds of years. a new piece of our urban fabric if you will.

right, my piece said, I'm off to the Stoop to see Leeds Carnegie get stuffed by 'Quins. Argh.

la la la please delete my mistake

Hey Axi ! :wave:

2006 cough 2006

2006 cough 2006

Brown skinned people do go red you know :lol:
x

ha it is spooky though that we are learning about the final stage of financing exactly a year after the first lot! This development is taking chunks out of my life!

Looks as though this one is in the bag.

Interestingly, if foreign investment was banned in the UK, London would have hardly any skyscrapers.

Canadian money in Olympia and York launched Canary Wharf, Saudi money rescued it in the mid 90s and made a fantastic return (!).

Swiss Re commissioned the Gherkin.

Heron is being financed by foreign investors

The Pinnacle is being financed by foreign investors

and now the London Bridge Tower is also being financed from abroad.

Why the British reluctance to build tall?

Broadgate was, obviously a massive project, funded by British Land, who will also be building 122 Leadenhall and have financed the Broadgate Tower.

Pre-Broadgate, the Natwest Tower and BT Tower are the only proper skyscrapers built in London.

Why the reticence to build tall? Regulatory, lack of ambition, London clay or economic?

Well the big reluctance pre 2000 was nobody wanted towers.EH weren't the only ones at the time who were dead against them.The coporation of London, where most of the demand for large offices at that time were as anti towers as EH are now & traditional councils such as k&C & Westminster weren't that keen either & other areas such as Lambeth & Southwark would've been the last place anybody would consider building high quality office & residential towers at the time. Since the large boom in towers from 1999 onwards the corporation of London has changed attitude & it has taken the last few years for towers to get through the planning process. British developers met a demand for large groundscrapers & do quite alright out of them. As towers have become more accepted more will design & fund them.

Ok some of the present towers are foreign capital backed but then so are many other investments. The big Uk developers have finally embraced towers with Land Secs proposing towers in Victoria, the city, stratford BL having built 51LS, are in hte process of building ropemaker,201BG & 122LH, GPE & Derwent London have also been adding towers to there mid term development pipeline. Coupled with investment in residential by a fair few GB developers & you can see its not just foreign money building towers.

I actually think that 9/11 has increased he tolerance to tall buildings...like cocking a snoot at those monsters, you know, an even taller replacement building and a proliferation of taller and taller buildings.

^ I dont think 9/11 had any effect really on skyscrapers in London neither positively nor negatively.

Swiss Re was well through the project schedule when the attacks happened. If anything i think we can lay much of the popularity of towers with Canary Wharf and fundamentally the phase coinciding with the opening of the Jubilee Line. With this the estate was able to truly prosper at last and provided a precedent to UK developers for the profits to be made from these tall buildings, and we all know developers are almost solely motivated by profit!

True. but that has no effect on the minds of the general public

Its not the public who decide whether we have tower or not (well not directly anyway), and with a half decent novelty tower (Swiss Re) can be easily persuaded ;)

Seriously though for the public's attitude to towers to be changed they had to be shown examples of succesful exciting towers - CW as a proper attractive cluster and then Swiss Re as an iconic structure presented this.

Without going too far off topic I was referring to peoples 'tolerance' to tall towers as opposed to developers. I recall at the time that one of the sick reasons to attack the WTC towers is that they were the 'epitome' of anti god westerners , ie, building taller than the minorets of a mosque. That sort of sentiment is remembered by people and manifests itself accordingly.

there is certainly a capitalist taint to tall buildings, the 70s/80s glistening towers of the US and Asia have always been thought of as vulgar. Closer to home the disasterous under-funded single use of towers during the slum clearance background created a snobbish attitude towards high rise living. We have had quite a backlash to contend with here!

To be honest I think that only London Bridge Tower has the power to completely reverse this attitude;

- It is a whole-hearted mixed-use building, dictated by its design
- It has public access, a vital component for public interaction
- It's clear spire profile celebrates London/European history
- it has top notch environment credentials also integrated in its design, not just after thoughts

If there was any cause for public funding of a new building then this is our candidate!

Yes...I have always had to fight my love of tall buildings and then explain my lack of love for ultra capitalism etc. You are right. (yet again :cry: ) this tower may be the beginning of something that really is inclusive...dont forget is environmenal credentials....another plus...I will not even contemplate its demise!

WTF no wonder this keyboard was thrown out...

All seems to have gone quiet on the Shard front. Why hasn't Halabi upped sticks yet?

My fingers are really getting sore from keeping em crossed for so long...I need news!

there is certainly a capitalist taint to tall buildings, the 70s/80s glistening towers of the US and Asia have always been thought of as vulgar. Closer to home the disasterous under-funded single use of towers during the slum clearance background created a snobbish attitude towards high rise living. We have had quite a backlash to contend with here!

To be honest I think that only London Bridge Tower has the power to completely reverse this attitude;

- It is a whole-hearted mixed-use building, dictated by its design
- It has public access, a vital component for public interaction
- It's clear spire profile celebrates London/European history
- it has top notch environment credentials also integrated in its design, not just after thoughts

If there was any cause for public funding of a new building then this is our candidate!

I agree with all that, but it's not a public building and, desperate as I am to see it get built, I don't think a penny of public money should go towards it.

Well the big reluctance pre 2000 was nobody wanted towers.

except they did! natwest tower was rebuilt as tower 42 international finance centre by 1996 and was so hugely successful wates city bought britannic house and turned it into citypoint. wates had previously tried to get a multi let building built in the city ten years earlier but it had proved impossible.

credit suisse in the late eighties and even early 90s when there was a recession wanted a tower and with no realistic development options available in the city moved to canary wharf as its first anchor tenant.

hsbc had been hunting for a site to build a tower in the city since 1994 and again were unable to get anywhere, the planning restrictions were too much so they also headed out to canary wharf.

there was the demand just the planning system made it impossible so you were stuck with what we have now. london is an incredibly hostile environment to build tall buildings in. take a bow english heritage. if they managed to cost landsec 12 million quid thanks to the delays and the project is worth 300 million quid thats 4% of the profits sliced away immediately.

All seems to have gone quiet on the Shard front. Why hasn't Halabi upped sticks yet?

My fingers are really getting sore from keeping em crossed for so long...I need news!

According to EG, he has already decided to sell, we'll just have to wait for the conformation.
I the mean time, the scaffolding is steadly rising on southwark towers.

Interestingly there is a notice on Southwark Towers for a planning application to modify the first 6 floors of LBT.
I wonder if this is going to be similar to the Pinnacle, where more office space was created at the expense of the retail space.

According to EG, he has already decided to sell, we'll just have to wait for the conformation.
I the mean time, the scaffolding is steadly rising on southwark towers.

Interestingly there is a notice on Southwark Towers for a planning application to modify the first 6 floors of LBT.
I wonder if this is going to be similar to the Pinnacle, where more office space was created at the expense of the retail space.

I think after 'the sage' & 'hugh' u hold the 3rd place for least posts in most time.
Its been a bloody long wait , eh. But the tide has turned my friend.
I mean, blimey, 'the pinnicle ' is almost a 1000 feet too.Wild

Theres been quite a few applications recently.

Just type in London bridge & a few come up.

http://planningonline.southwarksites.com/AcolNetCGI.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPSESSION=%7B%5B%2A%211D1A020B050304731D3C3D31617C041E28361620222F34223B7660001036350A0C1E372B316B730B033D3916212F332D271F3D26253A2821217660001429241D2A3220262C022E2D2E273B2A2A62142026222720102F33292A271B01797C717D7D646674617C057E7C616776%21%2A%5D%7D


Goth- I was thinking more of local councils & planning authority's rather than business. One of the reasons CW has taken off was the huge shot in the arm it received when all the banks such as HSBC that were frustrated by the Corporations reluctance to allow towers. CW has not looked back since.

Including, I see, a revision to the lower levels of LBT...

http://planningonline.southwarksites.com/AcolNetCGI.exe?ACTION=UNWRAP&RIPSESSION=%7B%5B%2A%211B3B37163D3D352B2218373C7977747C7B6B627D681C081E01121F00791C2E213B766000142F262B3C7660001429241E23323C2B2D20261C2A343B36302B33621A3D3B34312B152F3D3437310D0A7C7C7F60607C747B647C0B6664757478%21%2A%5D%7D

Hopefully this isn't cost-cutting measures being brought in already.

^^^ as long as they arent planning to remove the first few floors completely! ;)

interestingly the Pinnacle was also rejigged internally after being involved with Middle-East investors, if it is a true pattern then they seem to like the hands on approach!

Some models at the New London Architecture Exhibition. I'm still trying to work out how many 'sides' the building has -


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/LBT/3.jpg


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/LBT/4.jpg


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/LBT/5.jpg

Halabi's ten days are up. Let's hope he decided to sell.

Some models at the New London Architecture Exhibition. I'm still trying to work out how many 'sides' the building has -


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/LBT/3.jpg


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/LBT/4.jpg


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/LBT/5.jpg

Great models WJ. A big thanks for going out and taking all them purdy pictures:)

brilliant foxy - great updates from Store Street. I shall be along there first thing on Saturday to partake in the new models.

Great models WJ. A big thanks for going out and taking all them purdy pictures:)

It's quite handy actually - only 2 minutes' walk from my office, and it's a permanent exhibition. They are constantly updating their models and renderings.

They even let you submit new ones:
http://www.newlondonarchitecture.org/projects_submit.php

Well worth a visit if you're in the area.

Great updated tonight foxy. :okay:

Is that picture with the trees the observation gallery in the middle of the tower or is it the office section? Looks fantastic.

Halabi's ten days are up. Let's hope he decided to sell.

Yep. I really need some news now! Agh.

New funding date for Shard

2007 Issue 39

The developer of the Shard is aiming to announce confirmation of funding for the project by the end of the first week of October, Building understands.

The project last week became the first high-profile scheme to be hit by the credit crunch in the financial market, as developer Sellar Property Group revealed it was in talks with potential backers to address shortfalls in funding.

It is also understood that Sellar’s directors last week called the project team to a meeting to stress the importance of pushing ahead with work, despite not being able to confirm financing.

Meanwhile, property agency CB Richard Ellis has forecast grim times for the office sector. The agency has drastically reduced its estimate of how many will be finished in the City by 2011.

The developer of the Shard is aiming to announce confirmation of funding for the project by the end of the first week of October, Building understands.


Amazing news. I'm chuffed!

Thanks London Lad!

Great Find LL! I was sure this project would go ahead if any do.

Great pics Will...try and pinch me some of those little palms trees in the model next time if you can!

Well, sounds like good news, but it's yet another delay...

How's it a delay? If they do indeed have the funding, then it means this tower is in the bag, and it seems they are now wanting to press ahead.

It's an encouraging sign, certainly. Bananas are still on hold, but fingers crossed and breath held...

Meanwhile, property agency CB Richard Ellis has forecast grim times for the office sector. The agency has drastically reduced its estimate of how many will be finished in the City by 2011.
Well, as far as I'm aware, the 3 main tower of the City -Bish, Leadenhall and Heron- are all certs to go up now, with projections of 2010/2011 completion, or possibly 2012 at the latest, and to be honest I'm not bothered by an extra year after everything these towers have been through...would be nice to have them up for the Olympics (which I think they will be) but ultimately if they're up I'm happy.

and embarassingly for CBRE the total space in those three buildings alone is 199,260 sqm. are their predictions ever right?

How's it a delay? If they do indeed have the funding, then it means this tower is in the bag, and it seems they are now wanting to press ahead.

Well, it's only in that we now have to wait till early/mid october to hear what I hoped we would have heard by now. My patience is just wearing a little thin...

Really hope this gets built guys, I LOVE IT! I've been following this for a few years now and find the anticipation of it being built like being on a rollercoaster.... I think it will certainly put British skyscrapers on the map and make the world realise that we don't just build midrises.
Fingers crossed up here in Birmingham!! :)

Well, it's only in that we now have to wait till early/mid october to hear what I hoped we would have heard by now. My patience is just wearing a little thin...

Don't worry! It's literally only a week:)

I am in Toronto at the moment, I was walking along the PATH system today and came across a poster for Shangri La hotels, on it were all of their hotels, including ...yes you guessed it Shard London( with the words opening 2011) in small writing.
sadly i had no camera with me

It's quite handy actually - only 2 minutes' walk from my office

It's only a 2 mintue walk from my office too - where do you work? I'm up next to the BT Tower, just off TCR.

I am in Toronto at the moment, I was walking along the PATH system today and came across a poster for Shangri La hotels, on it were all of their hotels, including ...yes you guessed it Shard London( with the words opening 2011) in small writing.
sadly i had no camera with me

Welcome to Shangri-La Hotel At London Bridge Tower (Opening 2011)

http://www.shangri-la.com/en/property/london/shangrila

:)

It's only a 2 mintue walk from my office too - where do you work? I'm up next door to the BT Tower, on Howland Street just off TCR.

Hmm... I'd love to reveal where I work. But I don't want to risk being stalked. :)

Let's just say I'm somewhere in this general vicinity -


http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/767WestEndofLondonfromtheLondonEye_pic1.jpg

You've made it obvious then :lol:

Hmmm... now you've got me thinking I was too specific.

A rough indication wouldn't hurt anyone, you know... :P

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but The Shard Shangri-La will be beaten by both Paris and Vienna (opening in 2009) to be the first in Europe.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but The Shard Shangri-La will be beaten by both Paris and Vienna (opening in 2009) to be the first in Europe.

A minor point, surely?

^^ Certainly doesn't bother me when other hotels open, all I care about is whether the Shard gets built or not. Anyway in Paris and Vienna they're converting existing buildings, rather than waiting for a new one to be built.

Shangri La hotel opening dates blah blah
http://www.shangri-la.com/en/findahotel

Website of Shangri La, London Bridge Tower
http://www.shangri-la.com/en/property/london/shangrila

(I know I already posted that link, but no one seemed to notice... I find it very reassuring that there's a website for the hotel with an opening date, and I can't guarantee that I won't be posting it again...)

Can anyone actually give us an update on the demolition of the Southwark Towers?

has halibi sold his stake cos today this was in one of the main london newspapers i think it was the telegraph.

Secretive property billionaire Simon Halibi is this weekend said to be locked in talks with investment bank advisors to put together a potential takeover offer for the David Lloyd leisure chain.

i could be wrong but could anyone clarify

We're waiting for the announcement that Halabi has sold his stake, probably to the Qatari government (Qatar Investment Authority), and a confirmation that demolition will proceed (more or less straight away) and that construction will follow as planned (i.e. for completion in 2011). The anticipation of this, despite a degree of cautious optimism and various promising rumours, is provoking a certain amount of nervousness in these quarters. Anyway there's no news so far today.

has halibi sold his stake cos today this was in one of the main london newspapers i think it was the telegraph.

Secretive property billionaire Simon Halibi is this weekend said to be locked in talks with investment bank advisors to put together a potential takeover offer for the David Lloyd leisure chain.

i could be wrong but could anyone clarify

good god i'm a time traveller

:eek:

I think it's more likely there's a fault with the forum ;)

I think it's more likely there's a fault with the forum ;)

then how did i get this hovercar?

:lol:

I think they are still proceeding with the demolition - no reason for this not to keep going - the contract is already signed with Keltbray for the £8m job, and even for whatever reason the current developers stall, the site needs vacating and demolishing down to ground level. We are however, highly dependent on Halabi slinging his hook and a property bank backing the new consortium. We are talking days not weeks for confirmation of this though.

then how did i get this hovercar?

Raffle

Can anyone actually give us an update on the demolition of the Southwark Towers?

I was there yesterday, and while all the hoardings were up, and a small amount of scaffolding, I couldn't actually see or hear any activity. :(

woah! you spend 2 weeks away on holiday and all this happens. glad i missed the ups and downs to be honest but i think on balance everything now looks positive, others are preparing to step in if Halibi gets out. he's just wrangling over his price now, no doubt.

there was a piece in Property Week about him a few weeks ago saying "nobody doubted he had the cash" to do any deal he wanted in terms of porperty, basically it was all very glowing and positive about him. interestingly it came only a week or two after a separate article about the Sellars and the Shard - there are obviously other things happening behind the scenes as people here have pieced together.

everyone awaits the big announcement..........

A photo to keep the love flowing

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07404/IMG_1211.jpg

Not meaning to have a go at anyone in particular here, but am I the only one that very quickly gets bored of the constant 'will they/won't they' debate that consumes this thread (and several others)?

You get the feeling sometimes that building will be halfway to being topped-out and we'll still get people on here saying it won't go ahead. Give it a rest! :)

great photo, off subject a little but how come theres a huge crowd on the bridge, is there a market there or someting?in fact, the whole southbank in that area look busy, maybe i could pick up some cheap chrimbo pressies there!!by the way where was the photo taken from???

great photo, off subject a little but how come theres a huge crowd on the bridge, is there a market there or someting?in fact, the whole southbank in that area look busy, maybe i could pick up some cheap chrimbo pressies there!!by the way where was the photo taken from???

It was the Thames Festival a couple of weeks ago, they closed off Southwark Bridge to traffic and had markets, stall etc for people to enjoy :okay:

indeed it happens every year, the night time carnival and fireworks on the Sunday are fun too! The Photos were taken from St Pauls

Not meaning to have a go at anyone in particular here, but am I the only one that very quickly gets bored of the constant 'will they/won't they' debate that consumes this thread (and several others)?

You get the feeling sometimes that building will be halfway to being topped-out and we'll still get people on here saying it won't go ahead. Give it a rest! :)

Well said.

A photo to keep the love flowing

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07404/IMG_1211.jpg

Who would think that the church in this shot is actually an ancient Cathedral!

The more I look at this the more I want Guy's torn down.

Hmm... I'd love to reveal where I work. But I don't want to risk being stalked. :)

Let's just say I'm somewhere in this general vicinity -


http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/767WestEndofLondonfromtheLondonEye_pic1.jpg

Blimey thats an old photo. UCL Hospital in still under construction top right. I work somewhere behind Centre Point as well...

The more I look at this the more I want Guy's torn down.
Can't they paint it?

Can't they paint it?

Effort

Can't we offer to do it one weekend. get a nice long ladder and a few pots of paint. Some beers. Job done.

Plus you would be too busy looking through the windows at the nurses changing clothes.:nuts:

Good to find this thread, do you guys know there's another one in the supertall forum (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=418897)?

Good to find this thread, do you guys know there's another one in the supertall forum (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=418897)?

yes.

The more I look at this the more I want Guy's torn down.
WHAT!!! Tear down the tallest hospital in the whole world? How about a makeover?

:ohno: No get the land value from it, and build a brand new one futher South.

^^ I agree with Bones, but anyway this debate's been going on in rather more detail at this thread, which may therefore be of interest to you both - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=513615

Hmmm.

Well the scaffolding is going up slowly on one corner but there is no sign of any work which is damaging the fabric of the building yet.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/cranesetcphotos/shard12.jpg

Thanks for the link Officer, this forum seems to have everything - if you can find it.

While waiting for some serious demolition to happen ... what effect will Guy's have on the Shard as they will both be standing side by side ... enhancement or distraction?

Cranesetc ... thanks for the photo - it looks like the plan is to enclose the whole building before starting top down demolition.

Thanks for the link Officer, this forum seems to have everything - if you can find it.

While waiting for some serious demolition to happen ... what effect will Guy's have on the Shard as they will both be standing side by side ... enhancement or distraction?

.

Somewhat akin to a picture of Onslow standing next to Princess Dianna!:lol:

Just read today the spread Building magazine did on the shard last month - incredible to think about the challenges faced by Mace. Site is surrounded by narrow roads, a massive hospital, a functioning train station, underground line and bus station and hundreds of thousands of commuters daily.

This thing will be a feat of engineering, architecture, construction management and sheer willpower. A real testament to all involved.

Somewhat akin to a picture of Onslow standing next to Princess Dianna!:lol:

AW! I thought Diana looked fine ;)

http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=284&storycode=3096898&c=0

Story on Gardiner & Theobald report; author quoted mentioning the Shard:

Murgatroyd said: “A number of large commercial projects such as the Shard have stalled or been cancelled in London because rental prices cannot keep pace with increased build costs. That correction is likely to be exacerbated by the global credit squeeze, the impact of which will be felt more next year.”

New funding date for Shard

2007 Issue 39

The developer of the Shard is aiming to announce confirmation of funding for the project by the end of the first week of October, Building understands.

The project last week became the first high-profile scheme to be hit by the credit crunch in the financial market, as developer Sellar Property Group revealed it was in talks with potential backers to address shortfalls in funding.

It is also understood that Sellar’s directors last week called the project team to a meeting to stress the importance of pushing ahead with work, despite not being able to confirm financing.

Meanwhile, property agency CB Richard Ellis has forecast grim times for the office sector. The agency has drastically reduced its estimate of how many will be finished in the City by 2011.Well it's the end of the first week of October so.... :dunno:

No funding?

A bit of funding?

:)

Hopefully we'll hear something today. Keep looking on EGI for breaking news...

Hmmm.

Well the scaffolding is going up slowly on one corner but there is no sign of any work which is damaging the fabric of the building yet.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/cranesetcphotos/shard12.jpg

I'm pleased to say that looks like it's gone up a bit since I was there on monday, as far as I can tell. But progress is so sloooooow...

Nothing in Property Week today about this but the office lettings market is still quite strong despite the banking crisis so lettabililty not a problem.

Hopefully we'll hear something today. Keep looking on EGI for breaking news...

Lol....they havent stuck to a single deadline yet in this whole sorry saga of a construction project...what makes you think they will start now...

Is this what a girl feels like when she's at home alone on a Friday night waiting for some guy to call...?

(Yeah, yeah I know - I need to get out more).

Oh. No news. What a surprise.

Sigh... :(

^^ you will wont to update your avatar soon, lets hope :master:

Well, as soon as we get a definite go ahead, an LBT avatar will be well and truly in...

I find it rather discomfiting also that I don't think we've even heard concrete confirmation that Halibi has actually been bought out at all...or am I wrong?

I find it rather discomfiting also that I don't think we've even heard concrete confirmation that Halibi has actually been bought out at all...or am I wrong?

You are correct.

Yawn...

Peopele are doing what forums were designed for....chatting & exchanging info, expectation & exitement. When it gets too much its fun to go elsewhere and be the first to bring some real news back.

I would have expected a new post every time a new bar of scaffolding is added!

A (very) quick video of the site, taken earlier -

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/southwark/?action=view&current=MVI_3435.flv

The more I look at this the more I want Guy's torn down.

i want that to...or a good re clad like the exchange tower

a rehash of old news? (http://www.industrywatch.com/pages/iw2/Story.nsp?story_id=111048229&ID=iw&scategory=Travel%3AHospitality&P=&F=&R=&VNC=hnall) Not sure but this is from the Daily Mail dated 06/10


Qatar's Cut of Glass

Daily Mail; London (UK), 2007-10-06



THE Qatari government is close to grabbing a slice of London's skyline with a Pounds 100m investment in the 1,000ft Shard of Glass skyscraper.
They are understood to be close to buying the one-third stake from Syrian billionaire Simon Halabi.

The prestigious tower is designed by Renzo Piano and features offices, a five-star hotel and luxury flats.

Halabi is reported to have fallen out with developer Irvine Seller and property group CLS Holdings over the Shard, which is under construction, and wants out..

(c) 2007 Daily Mail; London (UK). Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning. All rights Reserved.

^^

As it is not a report of a deal actually being done, it is old news, as we have already heard that a deal is close to happening. Quite a few times. :( I assume Halabi is just trying to wring every last penny out of the deal, as any near-bankrupt failing entrepeneur would.

Here though is a frankly stunning new render from the global thread that I don't think has made it over here yet.

http://www.cantorseinuk.com/images/largeImages/75_cs_detail_img1_lg.gif

Omg. The moment I hear confirmation that this is going ahead, this is becoming my avatar. For a long time.

Some updates from today. Not that much activitiy, although scaffholding was going up when I was there.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/PFarrey/SHARD2S.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/PFarrey/SHARD3S.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/PFarrey/SHARD4.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/PFarrey/SHARD5S.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/PFarrey/SHARD3S.jpg


LBT will be over 3 times higher than that. :cool:

^^ It's a wonderful thought, ain't it? :D

Argh, is anyone even actually working on the site? I think we should have a forum get-together one weekend, we could have that bloody scaffolding up in no time...

^^ It's a wonderful thought, ain't it? :D

Argh, is anyone even actually working on the site? I think we should have a forum get-together one weekend, we could have that bloody scaffolding up in no time...

There were 6 workers that I could see yesterday. Only two were putting up scaffolding. This will surely speed up in the next fews days once the finance situation has cleared up.

There were 6 workers that I could see yesterday. Only two were putting up scaffolding. This will surely speed up in the next fews days once the finance situation has cleared up.

The demolition is already bought and paid for, Southwark Tower will be disappearing what ever the result of the Shard finacing. I reckon Keltbray are just overworked at the moment, as demolition, it seems, is a growth industry.:)

Looks like CLS has been doing some refinancing, yesterday on the LSE website

CLS ANNOUNCES REFINANCING OF SPRING GARDENS

The Board of CLS Holdings plc is pleased to announce that it has refinanced its property Spring Gardens. The property is located off Albert Embankment on the South Bank in London.

The building comprises 197,658 sq ft (18,361 sq m) of office space and is fully
let to a department of the Home Office at an annual rent of £6.4 million. The
property has recently been extended by 26,266 sq ft (2,440 sq m) and on
occupation by the tenant of the increased space, the majority of existing
leases were extended to 28 February 2026.

The new facility of £101.2 million which was provided by Eurohypo AG, London results in a £36.8 million cash surplus, and gives an ongoing reduction in annual loan repayments of £1.2 million compared with the previous facility.

I reckon Keltbray are just overworked at the moment, as demolition, it seems, is a growth industry.:)

Most unlikely. It seems to me that after a strong start (putting the crane up etc) Keltbray have been instructed to go slow and it looks like any real damage to Southwark Towers has been avoided so far.

By now I'd have expected to see signs of the cantilevered scaffold around the 19th floor appearing. Instead the crane's parked up and not much is happening.

Hope I'm wrong....

Surely there is a quite substantial soft strip for a building of this size?

Going slow is most definitely the word.

They've got to secure the funding soon. Notice how deadlines keep passing without a peep?

WPS UK consider this to be U/C

”The Shard of Glass”, is designed by the Italian architect Renzo Piano. Standing at 310 m tall the 83 storey tower is destined to be the tallest building in Europe.

The first 37 floors will provide public areas and amenities with office space above. At mid-height there will be public viewing areas and an intermediate plant level, above which the tapering profile will house an hotel, private apartments and, near the top, a public viewing gallery offering panoramic views over London.

Strong track record

WSP won the contract to provide structural design for the project against strong competition from the world’s leading companies. The technical solution demonstrates our ability to design a building that is economical and financially viable from a structural point of view as well as supporting the basic architectural concept.

As designer of some of the world’s high profile tall buildings, our track record and references further increased the client’s confidence in our capability to deliver the project.

Design for maximum space, minimum construction cost and optimum safety

A hybrid form of structure is adopted, with composite steel construction at commercial levels and post-tensioned slab construction at hotel and residential levels. The design provides a high level of structural robustness, with a number of safety-related innovations including state-of-the-art blast protection and structural fire engineering design. The building’s unique lateral bracing system consists of an efficient core and a high level outrigger truss to mobilize the entire building perimeter. It also uses the concrete mass at the upper levels of the building to dampen the building’s acceleration during high winds.

“The height, form and excellent design quality of the London Bridge Tower make it a world-class building that will attract visitors from around the world and bring investment and jobs to Southwark.”

Paul Evans, Director of Regeneration, London Borough of Southwark

Project information

Client: Teighmore Ltd

Project size: 83 storeys; 93 000 sq m

Project value: N/A

Status: construction commenced 2006

At the end of the day, dosent matter what WPS say, the plug can be pulled at any point.

Until the core starts rising, this isnt under construction.

Even once demolition is completed, they could decide to put a fugly groundscraper there, if the economic arguments dont add up for a 300m tower.

the fact is, without a pre let, its on shaky ground.

It has two pre-lets! However, ignore that article, it claims that "construction commenced 2006". If only.

At the end of the day, dosent matter what WPS say, the plug can be pulled at any point.

Until the core starts rising, this isnt under construction.

Even once demolition is completed, they could decide to put a fugly groundscraper there, if the economic arguments dont add up for a 300m tower.

the fact is, without a pre let, its on shaky ground.

CrazyMac,
I thought Shangri-La Hotels and Transport for London were Pre Lets.

I think CrazyMac mixed up with Bishopsgate Tower.

I think CrazyMac mixed up with Bishopsgate Tower.

No, im not mixed up with the Pinnacle, but i should have been clearer...

The current pre lets,whilst moving the project forwards, are not enough to make the project fully viable...further ones are needed at a higher £ per sqm than the TFL.

They did a deal so their rent is peanuts for however many years so the developers could advertise they had a tenant to show the market they were committed to the project going ahead ( a bit of PR 'spin', if you will). Shangri-La are the hotel developers, but the deal is far from finalised, and wouldn't count as a pre-let seeing as the space is a hotel anyway.

From what I hear the problem is the rent for the office space is far too high for the area the tower is in. They're asking for prices similar to Grade 1 space in the centre of the City, which is ridiculous for Southwark.

Demolition will still continue, although its obvious the slow pace is probably down now to deadlines slipping. The whole project might go ahead, it might not, but you won't hear a big announcement if the Shard is cancelled, that would totally damage the credibility of any future investments by the partners.

I dont see what i so crazy about asking for City prices there, it is right on top of the commuting point for a lot of City workers, you can walk a pleasant walk to the city from there and the locale once developed will be a lot more pleasing to work in than most of the City itself!

Yeah, and More London has pretty high rents and that's in Southwark (and it's a considerably longer walk from the City).

I dont see what i so crazy about asking for City prices there, it is right on top of the commuting point for a lot of City workers, you can walk a pleasant walk to the city from there and the locale once developed will be a lot more pleasing to work in than most of the City itself!

the whole project might go ahead, it might not, but you won't hear a big announcement if the Shard is cancelled, that would totally damage the credibility of any future investments by the partners.

I'd imagine there would be quite a big announcement - on the front page of the Evening Standard with an editorial from Simon Jenkins whooping for joy. :bash:

Oh god the doom and gloom mongers are back, well I supose it is nearly hallowen.
Seriously, lets just wait a few more days, won't be long now:)

Even once demolition is completed, they could decide to put a fugly groundscraper there, if the economic arguments dont add up for a 300m tower.

No they couldn't. If they cancel the tower (which I certainly accept is a possibility despite the two prelets), they could build a midrise; there's no particular reason to think it would be an ugly one. But a groundscraper is impossible - that would require a much larger site.

But why knock down a midrise to build a midrise .. much better in that case to refurbish what is there. As far as I can tell from what people have posted its not a bad office, just in need of a fitout and *maybe* a reclad.

That's why they're being so slow in demolishing it or causing any structural damage to the outside. I think when we start to see that happening we can start to have more confidence in this actually going ahead.

[QUOTE=wjfox2002;15785245]

They are demolishing the wrong building! LBT should have replaced guys or that other one there...not this!

Unless there are plans to reclad both buildings im afriad that LBT is wasted in this location and LBT will not look as good as it should :ohno:

Some updates from today. Not that much activitiy, although scaffholding was going up when I was there.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/PFarrey/SHARD2S.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/PFarrey/SHARD3S.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/PFarrey/SHARD4.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/PFarrey/SHARD5S.jpg

They are demolishing the wrong building! LBT should have replaced guys or that other one there...not this!

Unless there are plans to reclad both buildings im afriad that LBT is wasted in this location and LBT will not look as good as it should as the other two will just ruin the views of it :ohno:

^ Nonsense, it's in the perfect location.

Anyway, the Shard will be over 1000 feet tall. It's hardly going to have a problem 'standing out'...

They are demolishing the wrong building! LBT should have replaced guys or that other one there...not this!

Unless there are plans to reclad both buildings im afriad that LBT is wasted in this location and LBT will not look as good as it should :ohno:

errr they are demolishing the 'front' tower too

Ideaaly they would build the Shard at 20 Fenchurch St, and 20 Fenchurch St on the South Bank ( though I don't think the site at 20 Fen. is big enough):)

From wjfox2002 - '^ Nonsense, it's in the perfect location.

Anyway, the Shard will be over 1000 feet tall. It's hardly going to have a problem 'standing out'...'

Yes it will def stand out and I have no doubt that the tower will be world class but the fact that Guys will be right next to it kinda ruins the whole thing IMO as for me as you have one of the best, if not THE best, skyscrapers in Europe, let alone britain, next to one of the worse. Looking at the rendering on the very fist page confirms it. No doubt the location is right but what I meant was the surrounding buildings next to it where not...take them away and it will look, to me, a whole lot better.

From Potto - 'errr they are demolishing the 'front' tower too'

Thats alright then! One down and just Guys to go next! :laugh:

Every time I look at this thread I'm disappointed by the lack of dancing bananas. :no:

:banana:

you evil bstard!

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/5461/11102007858yr5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Todays photo, you might be able to see one workmans head if you zoom in close enough

errr they are demolishing the 'front' tower too

Which tower is the 'front' tower? I thought it was just Southwark Towers beign demolished (albeit by a single man, if today's photo is any indication)

The scaffolding appears to have risen a floor and a half. In 3 days. At the thinnest edge of the tower.

Oh em eff gee.

Which tower is the 'front' tower? I thought it was just Southwark Towers beign demolished (albeit by a single man, if today's photo is any indication)

If the man is still alive in 50 years time he is scheduled to crawl over to New London Bridge House next door to start to scrape away with his now warn tooth and useless nails at that 2nd beomoth...

:lol:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=296278

Here is New London Bridge House, behind you can see Southwark Towers where London Bridge Tower will rise

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07414/NewLondonBridgeHouseUKthumbnail.jpg

and this is the latest current plan for its replacement (the original was more sculpted with a large curve coming up from the Southwark Cathedral side)

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07414/babygem.jpg

http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07414/babygem2.jpg

Ooh new renders! Thanks for posting. I look forward to seeing that in person in 2045...

Theyre not new but youre right about completion date though.

Ooh new renders! Thanks for posting. I look forward to seeing that in person in 2045...
2045? Is that a little early, I though 2100?

No more spamming please. :ohno:

This sort of thing starts to happen when you have a lot of people waiting eagerly for a project that has the absolute bare minumum of activity going on for being classified as 'in development'. People start getting itchy, but rather than do what they want to do, which is scream GET A FUCKING MOVE ON YOU TIMEWASTING INFIGHTING BASTARDS (or words to that effect), they restrain themselves to frequent sly digs at the slow progress.

You know what would solve this...actual news that the project is definitely going ahead. Or quicker demolition progress. Or any bleeding progress at all! :ohno:

or perhaps some of the impatient ones should occassionally frequent the Dubai, Shanghai, Chi-town forums, they'd be quite welcome and happy there.

I don't know about those guys on the Chicago forum. They actually bought a bottle of champagne and poured the entire thing into the foundations of the Chicago Spire. I can't imagine any UK forumers doing that:cheers:

^^ If we a) get official news that Halabi has sold his stake to QIA, b) get clear re-confirmation of the Shard's construction timetable, and c) witness demo scaffolding getting going in earnest onsite, then I will very happily furnish two bottles of champagne, one to pour onto the site and the other for us to drink.

What with all the spam and other pointless stuff, I'm actually thinking of locking this thread until some official news comes through.

Oh come on Will, you don't need to go to those lengths

negative story in the standard today: "glass dream could be shattered by wrangle" - peter bill (p.39).

basically telling us what we already know - problems with investors.

Hmm sounds like another journalist rehash without actually doing any real journalism, a bit like the Daily Mail piece I posted a page back. Perhaps they are gloating? I cant see anything new on the situation out there in the public domain since around 18th/19th Sept

It was actually quite a good article- They now Peter Bill (the editor of estates gazette) writing a column on Fridays. He wants it to be built but says it badly needs this new investor- apparently a Russian one was advised against investing £100m.

But not much new that we don't already know.

^^ If we a) get official news that Halabi has sold his stake to QIA, b) get clear re-confirmation of the Shard's construction timetable, and c) witness demo scaffolding getting going in earnest onsite, then I will very happily furnish two bottles of champagne, one to pour onto the site and the other for us to drink.

Count me in! :D

Was at the site today, I believe they may have put up another half a floor of scaffolding on the leading edge. So there you go. A progress update.

Re the article: The Standard are always at least a week behind on news like this. Don't worry about it, we have enough to worry about here as is...

I would have to agree with Peter Bill in that aritcle in the ES.

Sadly I fear that this is the end game for LBT, if something is not announced in the next couple of weeks, then this project is dead and buried.
I'd like to find out who that twat of an estate agent was that advised the russian agianst investing in the LBT, perhaps he's a member of EH.

If this project dies, than the blame must lay with Simon Halibi, and I hope it takes his business empire with it.:bash: :bash:

There is little chance anything new proposed for this site will be tall, as it would now never get through the planning system, thanks to EH and UNESCO
:ohno:

You know me I'm hardly ever negative, but it's time we faced reality.

I wish people would stop these constant negative comments. This project has come too far, and too much time and money has been invested for it to suddenly fall apart. So there's a short delay before an official press release... big fucking deal. The Qatari government will fund the remaining 1/3rd. This project is peanuts to them. In the unlikely event they pull out, Pramerica or another investor will step in. Halibi has no choice but to sell up. He'll look like a total idiot if he doesn't. Demolition will continue as scheduled, basement works will start next summer, core and steelwork will be rising in early 2009. Let's have some confidence in this project.

^^ Here Here, please no more negitive comments.... this baby will rise :D

Agree with Wj here so heres a banana :banana:

But why is the official position on this thread that "this thing will rise" as if it's some kind of certainty? It's absolutely not a certainty!! If they can't get funding within a reasonable timeframe then it will probably be cancelled. We have seen other towers being cancelled so why not the Shard? It's not as if this tower has some kind of God-given inexorable momentum!!

i gave up hope on portsmouths spinnaker tower ever being built, three construction firms,two being sacked, well over budget, running god knows how many years behind schedule and the building doesnt serve any purpose, and it eventually happened.

nothing is 100% certain but the shard will be built.

I wish people would stop these constant negative comments. This project has come too far, and too much time and money has been invested for it to suddenly fall apart. So there's a short delay before an official press release... big fucking deal. The Qatari government will fund the remaining 1/3rd. This project is peanuts to them. In the unlikely event they pull out, Pramerica or another investor will step in. Halibi has no choice but to sell up. He'll look like a total idiot if he doesn't. Demolition will continue as scheduled, basement works will start next summer, core and steelwork will be rising in early 2009. Let's have some confidence in this project.

^^ i've been very negative on this in recent months but i would agree with the above comment.And yes Halibi will sell

Of course he will, where's the profit for him if he doesn't sell?