Draw a circle around the area that includes the North Shore from Chicago city limits to the WI line, the Northwest suburbs adjacent to it clear out to the Fox and also up to the Wi line, the West suburbs south of this point, from Chicago city limits to the Fox and beyond.....and, for good measure, throw in S.W. suburbia clear out to Joliet.

And what, prey tell, is this huge, influencial area, marked by stellar school systems and a power base that is based, in good part, on education lacks?

How about a state university, a four year public school.

Can there be any comparable suburban area in the United States so underserved and yet so incredibly BIG?????

Why aren't we looking into the conversion of places like CLC, Harper, CDP into 4 year state schools? Why isn't the state even considering the (admittedly expensive...but with a pay off) construction of a 4 year university from scratch? Is it obvious that areas around Argonne or Weston or the Silicon Prairie Corridor (the huge eastern portion...not DeKalb) would be fertile ground for a major state university.

Chicagoland dominates the state's population at 2/3. Does it make sense to see state universities in places like Macomb, Charleston, Springfield, etc., when there are none in the largest sections of suburban Chicago.

Excluding the U of I and its state wide role, does it make sense that there are major universities like NIU, ISU, and SIU downstate and UIC in the city of Chicago....and the areas described above in suburban Chicago don't even have a minor public university....let alone a major one?

IS IT JUST ME, OR DO OTHERS THINK THE STATE DOES A MISERABLE JOB OF DISTRIBUTING PUBLIC EDUCATION OPPORTUNITIES?

^ Suburbs don't get any sympathy from me. I'm more concerned about what the city's south and west sides lack. Screw your damn suburbs

Very interesting question. I will need time to ponder this, for I am at work and the boss is looking over my sho... ahgaaa..aa..a

Yeah no sympathy for the northern suburbs from me. It's not like kids from those suburbs would go to a school up there though. From the people I have met from the North Shore, they all either go to U of I, Mich, Indiana, ND, Wisconsin, NU, UC, some school in Cali, or the ones who decide to stick around Chicago go to DePaul. We should build up the schools we already have, like DePaul, UIC, and Loyola. We don't need another school. I really don't think Illinois needs more public schools. We got major ones for every direction of illinois, two for the south, one for the east, two in the center, one in the north (although its more northwest), one in the west and one for the city. sorry the northern suburbs just dont cry out new public university for me. They don't need it and they and Illinois seem to be just doing fine for the last 100 years. When a new university is needed it will be built.

I have a question though, me and my friend got into an arguement about this but are North Shore suburbs generelly liberal or conservative?

^ Suburbs don't get any sympathy from me. I'm more concerned about what the city's south and west sides lack. Screw your damn suburbs

brilliant. Life stops at Howard Street and Austin Boulevard. You definitely have become a genius, Urban. An angry genius, but a genius just the same.

Yeah no sympathy for the northern suburbs from me. It's not like kids from those suburbs would go to a school up there though. From the people I have met from the North Shore, they all either go to U of I, Mich, Indiana, ND, Wisconsin, NU, UC, some school in Cali, or the ones who decide to stick around Chicago go to DePaul. We should build up the schools we already have, like DePaul, UIC, and Loyola. We don't need another school. I really don't think Illinois needs more public schools. We got major ones for every direction of illinois, two for the south, one for the east, two in the center, one in the north (although its more northwest), one in the west and one for the city. sorry the northern suburbs just dont cry out new public university for me. They don't need it and they and Illinois seem to be just doing fine for the last 100 years. When a new university is needed it will be built.

I have a question though, me and my friend got into an arguement about this but are North Shore suburbs generelly liberal or conservative?

You're right. It's all wealth and money once you cross the city's northern city limits. And all white, too. Everyone lives in $500,000+ houses.

Of course, the nice thing about Chicago is that there's so little money in the city. I love the way that lakefront neighborhoods are kept open for the people....with cheap rent and condos for $50,000. Chicago has purposely fought any development downtown because it knew that gentrification would destroy the city. The South and West Sides maintain their total gritty nature. In fact, I don't believe people of any wealth would even buy property south of Congress Street...or west of the Kennedy. Personally I find it refreshing that K-Mart, Walmart, etc. are the main anchor stores on the Mag Mile.

We upity suburban types could learn a lot from the down-to-earth Windy City, couldn't we.

************

and all this bull shit because I dared to suggest that the suburbs could really use a major public 4 year university....and that most of us can't afford NU or U of C private university tuition....and a helluva lot of us couldn't affor out of state tuition at Madison, Bloomington, Iowa City, Ann Arbor, etc.

You know....keep this fucking thread. I'd expect more than idiotic city/suburban anomosity (which sucks....from either side) for a totally legitamite question. Imoutofhere.

Cut Edsg some slack! We should all care at least a little bit about the suburbs * IF ONLY * because the the suburban economy is so inextricably tied to the city's economy. In evaluating Chicago relative to other metros, we prefer to include the economic might of the suburbs, but we avoid talking about them in every other context? That's quite convenient but it doesn't make a lot of sense. Sure, I wish the suburbs would depopulate as everyone moved to the center, but let's think practically here.

And this issue of there not being a major, decent public university in suburban Chicago -- certainly true. The legacy of land grant schools is rather unfortunate.

I don't think it is a particular sacrifice for someone from the north suburbs to drive into UIC in Chicago. And its a better experience all round if that person would spend 4 years at Champaign instead of living at home with Mama. I know. I attended 4 branches of UI myself. Pier, UIC, Champaign-Urbana, and the medical school complex. The best experience was had downstate.

If I would build any more public universities in Illinois, I would probably put them in the central and Southern parts of the state or in the Quad cities area. They need education on the Praries as well. I think the suburbs are well served by the excellent colleges and universities in the greater Chicago area.

i think we should care about the suburbs, bu the fact is, if the suburbs need/want better public education that is up to the leadership of those towns and cities.

How about a state university, a four year public school.

Can there be any comparable suburban area in the United States so underserved and yet so incredibly BIG?????

Why aren't we looking into the conversion of places like CLC, Harper, CDP into 4 year state schools? Why isn't the state even considering the (admittedly expensive...but with a pay off) construction of a 4 year university from scratch? Is it obvious that areas around Argonne or Weston or the Silicon Prairie Corridor (the huge eastern portion...not DeKalb) would be fertile ground for a major state university.

Excluding the U of I and its state wide role, does it make sense that there are major universities like NIU, ISU, and SIU downstate and UIC in the city of Chicago....and the areas described above in suburban Chicago don't even have a minor public university....let alone a major one?

IS IT JUST ME, OR DO OTHERS THINK THE STATE DOES A MISERABLE JOB OF DISTRIBUTING PUBLIC EDUCATION OPPORTUNITIES?

All valid points edsg. Indeed you could throw a wider net and wonder why the state is absent from a host of opportunities in this part of the state. The governors should take a leaf from the mayor's seize-the-opportunity book. Fortunately, Chicago's mayor never waited for downstate vision, energy, and money.

I have a question though, me and my friend got into an arguement about this but are North Shore suburbs generelly liberal or conservative?

The North Shore suburbs are generally moderate overall. Republicans tend to usually hold more political offices than Democrats, but over the last decade that has begun to change as more and more Democrats are now getting elected. The state Republican party is in shambles, because of corruption (George Ryan exc.) which is causing many to change their political affiliation to Democrat. Also many moderate Republicans are beginning to vote Democrat in major state elections and national elections because they feel the Republican party has moved to far to the extreme right. Also more liberals and moderates from the city of Chicago are moving into the northern suburbs. Many immigrants, especially Hispanics are moving to the North Shore too. These people generally vote Democrat.

Hmm. I just re-read Ed's comments. I would like to see a U of I or UW-M or U of M caliber school on the north shore. (U of I would probably hate this though...) As it is, there really isn't a "middle tier" university in the Chicago area, and that is frustrating for students who are good but not great.

i think we should care about the suburbs, bu the fact is, if the suburbs need/want better public education that is up to the leadership of those towns and cities.

^ And that's the clincher. City gets left to fend for itself for decades by the oversubsidized suburbs, and now it's time for the suburbs to do the same.

Why aren't we looking into the conversion of places like CLC, Harper, CDP into 4 year state schools?

Hey, it's my institution!

Truth be told, I've always wondered why it's been lauded so. I mean, I often hear about its high rank amongst the metro's CCs, but I've never been able to find actual proof.

Let me just say that bus service to the campus sucks big time: it's not available on weekends at all, it stops completely before 6:30 PM, it doesn't have an automated voice system like every other PACE vehicle that I've ridden, and the average time for the next bus to appear is approximately 45 minutes - that is, unless you mean going in the same direction, in which case the wait is an hour (or more).

In this respect, at least, Oakton is superior: Saturday service, cut-off of around 9:30 PM, designated voice signal, and an average of 30 minute intervals for BOTH westbound and eastbound buses.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that any new center of higher education in the area would do best to offer a pro-transit alternative, even (IMO, especially) in car-congested suburbs.

It would also make a lot more sense to build up UIC to the caliber of UICU, Wisconsin, or Michigan rather than building another start up so close to UIC. IF something were built in the northwest suburbs, that would put three state universities in the northwest quadrant of the state. In fact it would make more sense to spend the money building up Southern Illinois to the ranks of the University of Illinois. I don't think it is such a sacrifice to spend a few years away from home for the sake of a first class education.

It would also make a lot more sense to build up UIC to the caliber of UICU, Wisconsin, or Michigan rather than building another start up so close to UIC. IF something were built in the northwest suburbs, that would put three state universities in the northwest quadrant of the state. In fact it would make more sense to spend the money building up Southern Illinois to the ranks of the University of Illinois. I don't think it is such a sacrifice to spend a few years away from home for the sake of a first class education.

I never suggested such institutions would be the caliber of UIC. I doubt if they could achieve such distinction. You may have missed my point here. Look, with all due respect, neither NEIU or CSU are in the league of a school like UIC (with equal respect, neither are EIU or WIU). It's a matter of degree. In fact, the schools I have suggested would be there just to serve....with no illusions of becoming major players. As for UIUC, let's face it: it alone will always be Illinois's singular flagship.

I never suggested such institutions would be the caliber of UIC. I doubt if they could achieve such distinction. You may have missed my point here. Look, with all due respect, neither NEIU or CSU are in the league of a school like UIC (with equal respect, neither are EIU or WIU). It's a matter of degree. In fact, the schools I have suggested would be there just to serve....with no illusions of becoming major players. As for UIUC, let's face it: it alone will always be Illinois's singular flagship.
VOID

Well I did my undergraduate work at Loyola in Chicago. I lived in the Edgewater neighborhood and had a wonderful time. Loyola is definelty not a party school, but a commuter school. I had classes downtown and at the Lake Shore Campus where I lived. U of I Champaign(IMO) is the best place to experience the "true college experience." I realize it is different for everyone, but I always did have a great time at CU. Plus it is such a great school. Also ISU in Bloomington is a great time with both ISU and Weslyan.
SIU in Carbondale used to be insane, especially around Halloween.

As for Suburbs having "Big Schools" I just don't think there is that much of a market or attraction to have kids go to the suburbs. The suburbs on the most part are for kids who need to work and go to school, those who start out at Junior college or just want an associate, or those who cannot afford the more expensive schools.

I just could not imagine someone wanting to go to Deerfield, Illinois for school, unless there was a big school(ala CU, Western, Eastern, Southern).

Could be right, could be wrong.

I live on the border of Naperville/Aurora and Naperville has North Central and they do a good job, I would rate it second to Northwestern for suburb colleges.

Once again, every college is great for someone. I just got back from England and everyone over there talks about how many schools we have in the U.S. and the quality. I think we sometimes take it for granted.

The initial placements were political and sucked even back at the end of the 19th century. It's only gotten worse. Metro Chicago is 75% of Illinois population. Why wouldn't they place schools to serve the population centers?? It's what every other state does. The is no growth in cornfield undergraduate numbers. It's all in commuter and adult continuing education. There should be campuses in the north and west Chicago metro but because Illinois has six campuses in the middle of nowhere it can't afford to adequately serve it's population centers. In a perfect world UIUC would be in Springfield, SIU MetroEast, NIU Rockford and WIU Quad Cities allowing dual roles as traditional undergraduate and commuter campuses freeing up resources for 2-3 Chicago suburban schools.

Instead we have to pay for UIS, SIUE and extension programs in other cities.

The initial placements were political and sucked even back at the end of the 19th century. It's only gotten worse. Metro Chicago is 75% of Illinois population. Why wouldn't they place schools to serve the population centers?? It's what every other f%*king state does. The is no growth in cornfield undergraduate numbers. It's all in commuter and adult continuing education. There should be campuses in the north and west Chicago metro but because Illinois has six campuses in the middle of nowhere it can't afford to adequately serve it's population. In a perfect world UIUC would be in Springfield, SIU MetroEast, NIU Rockford and WIU Quad Cities allowing dual roles as traditional undergraduate and commuter campuses freeing up resources for 2-3 Chicago suburban schools.

Instead we have to pay for UIS, SIUE and extension programs in other cities.

VOID

UIC has been a great asset in revitalizing the near west side. As the deteriorating neighborhoods around the school are gentrified, Chicago has a great opportunity to really build the Campus into a major college institution. UCLA and USC provide traditional campuses in the heart of urban Los Angeles, Columbia does the same in New York. Northwestern is a suburban Institution, probably only University of Chicago and IIT have traditional campus space in city limits. Building UIC to the equal of superior of UIUC would be agreat boon to the city. Extending the campus toward IIT, possibly building a real football stadium, expanding the graduate programs, and developing a real campus town would go a long way to continue the revitalization of the west and south sides.

The initial placements were political and sucked even back at the end of the 19th century. It's only gotten worse. Metro Chicago is 75% of Illinois population. Why wouldn't they place schools to serve the population centers?? It's what every other state does. The is no growth in cornfield undergraduate numbers. It's all in commuter and adult continuing education. There should be campuses in the north and west Chicago metro but because Illinois has six campuses in the middle of nowhere it can't afford to adequately serve it's population centers. In a perfect world UIUC would be in Springfield, SIU MetroEast, NIU Rockford and WIU Quad Cities allowing dual roles as traditional undergraduate and commuter campuses freeing up resources for 2-3 Chicago suburban schools.

Instead we have to pay for UIS, SIUE and extension programs in other cities.

Point well taken, Skyward. Illinois placed its public university where most states did in the 19th century: rural areas. It has been in the post-WWII era that the state has dropped the ball in compariosn to many other states in how it provides public higher education in metropolitan setting (in our case, of course, that means Chicago).

Look at an area somewhat smaller than Chicagoland, the Bay Area, and see how the state of California serves it compared to how the state of Illinois serves us:

not only does the area contain the flagship campus in the state, Cal, it also has such CSU schools as SFSU and SJSU (both very large) and CSU East Bay. Even UCD and UCSC are in commuting range.

As I keep repeating: obviouslynobody is expecting the type of institution that will compete with UIUC. And frankly perhaps not in the UIC/NIU/ISU/SIU range. But there is no question that even without a major research component, pure 4 year programs with masters as well could be provided in sites like the North Shore or DuPage county. Could and should.

Atlanta's burbs would be another case of not having a major university. GA Tech is located right next to Midtown, and Emory is in the old street-car suburb of Druid Hills, both well inside I-285. I'd say about 3 million people live in the swath that is Atlanta's northern suburban sprawl which stretches from eastern Paulding County in the West to Gwinnett County in the East, and there's no major 4-year flagship-type school in this area. The closest one is another 30-40 miles away in Athens.

Chicago's Northern and Western suburbs together make up one of the largest contiguous areas of wealth in the country, and not all of it looks bad in comparison to many other metros with large suburban swaths, such as Dallas or Atlanta. I get the impression Lake County is a bit more liberal than DuPage. By suburban standards in the US, there really isn't too much they lack.

One decent mass transit system which suburbanites can use daily between burbs!:cheers:

Point well taken, Skyward. Illinois placed its public university where most states did in the 19th century: rural areas. It has been in the post-WWII era that the state has dropped the ball in compariosn to many other states in how it provides public higher education in metropolitan setting (in our case, of course, that means Chicago).

Look at an area somewhat smaller than Chicagoland, the Bay Area, and see how the state of California serves it compared to how the state of Illinois serves us:

not only does the area contain the flagship campus in the state, Cal, it also has such CSU schools as SFSU and SJSU (both very large) and CSU East Bay. Even UCD and UCSC are in commuting range.

As I keep repeating: obviouslynobody is expecting the type of institution that will compete with UIUC. And frankly perhaps not in the UIC/NIU/ISU/SIU range. But there is no question that even without a major research component, pure 4 year programs with masters as well could be provided in sites like the North Shore or DuPage county. Could and should.

VOID

OK. Let's make it official; the state puts:

North Shore University in Glenview/Northbrook

Stevenson University in Vernon Hills (sorry, Stevenson High)

Marshall Field University in Schaumburg (keep the name alive!)

Prairie Institute of Technology (Prairie Tech) in Wheaton/Naperville

Skokie has an excellent junior college, while the St. Louis National college is also in Skokie, just off the Eden's at Glenview Rd.

density, character, the el, and me

I had heard that Harper was trying to become a four year college but there was some opposition to it. I think it has something to do with concerns that this would put other 4 year colleges in the area at a disadvantage.

It makes perfect sense to make it a 4 year and it would be a shame if it didn't happen because of the insecurities of other schools.