The Americans tend to use an expression "24 hours" rather frequently instead of "one day". That is why I do not believe the expression 0-24 would be a complete disaster to be understood.

Anyway, using symbols instead of text is rather obvious in Europe because of dozens of languages belonging to several language families. For example, the following signs would be somewhat challenging to foreigners:

http://www.mattigronroos.fi/scc/Liikennemerkit.png

Well, I suppose "open 0-24" would be obvious if you thought about it for a second. "0-24" out of context wouldnt be, but everyone understands "24/7."

There are some exceptions within Europe. I'm wondering what Penn's Woods may think about it.

In France, for instance, these 2 irritating signs:
http://images.wikia.com/routes/images/9/95/B29.gif
http://champignac.hautetfort.com/media/02/00/1054787171.jpg
....

I'm nearly fluent in French, so personally, pas de problème avec those signs. (I went to Montreal with my parents once, and they insisted I do all the driving in Quebec. "We're not going to drive in a foreign country," Mom said. Which is bizarre, since they'd done plenty of driving in Europe....)

I just store that sort of thing up as examples for when Europeans insist they don't use text for anything essential. :-D

Well, I suppose "open 0-24" would be obvious if you thought about it for a second. "0-24" out of context wouldnt be, but everyone understands "24/7."

But 24/7 is not the same thing as 0-24. The latter often means Monday to Friday. 24/7 equals to "always", which is the default, hence usually not shown in the signs.

^^Um, okay. Never would have occurred to me. Which I think illustrates the weakness of relying on this sort of thing.

Congestion down one quarter in 2011

The Traffic Information Center (VID) reports traffic congestion was down 24.1% in 2011, reaching the level of around the year 2000, a reduction never seen before, which can be almost completely attributed to additional highway capacity. 7 out of the 10 worst spots from 2010 dropped in congestion, good for 16 out of the 24% reduction. The traffic jam top 50 has never seen such a change as last year. 22 new locations went into the top 50, as many old spots dropped out. The two worst congestion spots are those where road widening works are currently in progress on A4 and A50.

http://i.imgur.com/4KXDy.png
statistics by VID: http://www.vid.nl/top50.html

^^

Good argument for Dutch drivers wanting default (& not just short test zones) 130 km/h limit instead of 120. ;)

^^

Good argument for Dutch drivers wanting default (& not just short test zones) 130 km/h limit instead of 120. ;)

This decrease of traffic congestion has nothing to do with speed limits, the addition of highway capacity is the main reason of less congestion last year.

^^

I know that ! I understood ChrisZwolle's post ! But I meant what I wrote above as a consequence of the congestion decrease.

P.S.: I'm surprised you guys still want to use your cars with what ChrisZwolle wrote on the Italian autostrade and superstrade section about your road taxes !

^^

I know that ! I understood ChrisZwolle's post ! But I meant what I wrote above as a consequence of the congestion decrease.
section about your road taxes !

I'm sorry, I think I've misunderstood your reply (#6506).

I'm sorry, I think I've misunderstood your reply (#6506).

Maybe because the way I wrote was fairly unclear ;)

Largest road investment ever greenlit

The Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere megaproject has gotten the green light today. All 41 appeals against the record of decision were rejected by the Council of State today. This means the € 4.4 billion project can proceed. Construction is expected to begin almost immediately.

The project consists of the upgrading of the A1-A6-A9/A10 corridor between Schiphol Airport, Amsterdam and Almere, by adding signicant road capacity. Construction will begin early 2012 and be completed around 2018 - 2020. It will be phased, starting in Amsterdam and turn eastwards towards Almere, then proceeding along A9.

The A1 motorway will be widened to as much as 12 lanes, with 2x5 lanes, 2 reversible lanes and 2 bus lanes. This section is forecasted to carry 317 000 vehicles per day by 2035.

The A6 motorway will be widened from 2x3 to a 12-lane setup with 3+2+2+2+3 lanes, also with reversible lanes to Almere, and 4x2 lanes until the northeast side of Almere.

The A9 will be widened to as much as 12 lanes in Amsterdam-Zuidoost, partially within a land tunnel. This section will also get reversible lanes. Furthermore, the A9 will be widened to 2x4 lanes westwards to Badhoevedorp, also with a land tunnel in Amstelveen. Finally, the A10 will be widened to 2x4 lanes in eastern Amsterdam.

All interchanges will be rebuild. Over 100 bridges, overpasses and tunnels will be reconstructed.

The massive road project is an answer to the 2006 canceling of a 2x2 motorway between A6 and A9, southeast of Amsterdam. The result is a far more impressive motorway project, adding hundreds of additional lane kilometers.

Project extents:
http://i.imgur.com/kb7CS.png

Sweet fancy Moses :banana:

Holy crap! :eek: http://www.k-report.net/diskuze/clipart/jidlo.gif

The A1 motorway will be widened to as much as 12 lanes, with 2x5 lanes, 2 reversible lanes and 2 bus lanes.I'm a bit lost here, does this mean the bus lanes are included in the 2x5 setup and then there are additional reversible lanes, ultimately creating 12 lanes?

2 additional bus lanes. So that would mean 14 lanes total :)

Ah, the other option. :D Thanks.

Here's a map of the Hollandse Brug, a bridge that connects Flevoland and North Holland provinces, immediately south of Almere.

The western (top) bridge is currently in use in both directions. The eastern bridge will be a completely new one. The bridge will feature 10 motorway lanes, a two-lane local road and a double bus lanes, hence 14 lanes. Just north of the bridge (right on the image) there are 12 motorway lanes as it approaches the local-express setup around Almere.

Immediately west of the existing bridge is a two-track railway bridge, but it's not very well visible on the image. There have been talks about widening the railway to 4 tracks, probably by adding another railway bridge to the west, but this is currently not planned yet (though seen as a vision for the future).

http://i.imgur.com/eYzqy.png

A map of the new Muiden aquaduct. To the left is Amsterdam, to the right Almere / Amersfoort.

The aquaduct will have 5 lanes each way, plus a two-lane reversible, enabling 7 lanes in the peak direction. And from the looks of it, it has space for 2x6 lanes (or a wider reversible). Of interesting note, the two-lane busway has been scrapped from the aquaduct compared to the initial design. Weird that I didn't notice this before.

http://i.imgur.com/McthY.png

This is the A1/A6 interchange Muiderberg. This section features up to 6 lanes each way before/after the interchange, plus a two-lane reversible. That's 14 lanes for you. The double bus lane further west has been scrapped, it was originally planned to feature it all the way west towards Amsterdam, but probably cut because it's somewhat overkill because the A1 won't be very congested anymore with this amount of capacity.

http://i.imgur.com/YDlV9.png

Here we have the approach to interchange Diemen, the widest section of the entire SAA project. It's just west of a new interchange and features 2 bus lanes, 2 merging lanes from the exit, 6 mainline lanes, 2 reversible lanes, another 6 mainline lanes and 2 merging lanes to the exit. That's a grand total of 20 lanes.

http://i.imgur.com/eHrYZ.png

A study by the Dutch transportation institute KIM found out the following things about mobility and fuel prices:



Car drivers do not drive significantly less when fuel prices at the pump rise. If fuel prices increase by approximately 12.5 percent, the long-term decrease in passenger car kilometres travelled is 2.5 percent. Higher fuel prices have also not resulted in a more fuel-efficient ‘car fleet’. The car-fleet specific fuel consumption remained relatively constant from the late 1980s to 2009.

During 2011, fuel prices at the pump surpassed the record highs set in 2008. The question arises as to what extent high fuel prices influence the number of car kilometres travelled. This study revealed that automobility, in economic terms, is an „inelastic. product. That is to say that a change in fuel price has a relatively minor effect on the number of car kilometres travelled. This study is based on data derived from the period 1980 to 2009.

Consumers usually react more strongly to luxury good price changes than they do to the price changes of necessary products. The slight price elasticity clearly reveals that for many people car use is deemed a necessary product.

Slight reduction in number of kilometres
What are the long term consequences of a sharp rise in the price of crude oil? In the first instance, if the price of a barrel of crude oil increases from $70 to $100 USD dollars, the price of gasoline will increase by approximately 12.5 percent. Based on this study's findings, the price increase over the long term (5 to 10 years) will result in a 2.5 percent reduction in the number of car kilometres travelled.

A price rise has a greater impact on the long-term than the short-term. In the short-term, car drivers will travel fewer kilometres or alter their driving style („foot off the gas pedal.). In the long-term, people can also reduce their home-to-work travel by more often working from home or by residing closer to their workplaces or purchasing more fuel-efficient cars.

Car fleet not more fuel-efficient, owing to increased power and luxury cars
This study not only examined the impact higher fuel prices have on the number of car kilometres travelled, but also the effect this has on the fuel-efficiency of the „car fleet‟. For car drivers, the specific fuel cost is dependent on the price of fuel and the specific fuel consumption. If the price of fuel increases, this does not, by definition, result in higher specific fuel costs. By driving more fuel-efficient cars, car drivers can mitigate part of the price increase.

The analysis does not point toward a more car-fleet specific fuel consumption emerging as a consequence of higher fuel prices at the pump. The trend for larger cars (increased power) and more comfort (electric windows, airconditioning) has offset improvements in fuel efficiency technology. The result is that from the late 1980s to 2009 the specific fuel consumption has remained virtually constant, recent years have seen a marked improvement in the specific fuel consumption, as measured in new-car specific CO2 emission. Additional research into the underlying factors for development of fuel-efficient passenger cars therefore also seems pertinent.

Effects less pronounced than previously indicated
The majority of the definite effects of higher fuel prices revealed in the study were less pronounced than the effects previously cited in the available literature, especially with regard to the long-term effects.

An analysis of the annual figures compiled for the period 1980 to 2009, including figures pertaining to fuel prices and costs, further indicate that economic growth and the supply of new road capacity present a satisfactory explanation for the total number of gasoline-fuelled passenger car kilometres travelled.

http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/ministeries/ienm/documenten-en-publicaties/rapporten/2012/01/05/over-brandstofprijzen-en-automobiliteit.html




This is some interesting stuff, because previously the "electronic road pricing" concept was seen as a major factor to reduce traffic congestion. But as fuel price increases have no significant effect on the vehicle kilometers driven, why would road pricing have? It's just the same, but instead of increasing fuel cost, it's increasing taxes.

^^Work related traffic will probably not effected by higher fuel prices and "electronic road pricing". But I'm sure it will reduce leisure traffic.

A map of the new Muiden aquaduct. To the left is Amsterdam, to the right Almere / Amersfoort.
Chris, on which website are all these documents?

Chris, on which website are all these documents?

They are a part of the Record of Decision (ROD, Dutch: Tracébesluit).

You may be able to find it in the http://www.centrumpp.nl/ archive.

Thanks!

Major problems in Eindhoven, a suspended bicycle circle above a road intersection is on the verge of collapsing. The road has been shut down and traffic is diverted. The bicycle circle is currently still under construction. This appears to be a major design flaw.

http://www.ed.nl/multimedia/archive/02256/Hovenring3_2256264a.JPG

http://bermtoerist.org/jalbum/N2-Meerhoven/2011-Week51/20111225-140123.JPG

What does the "7000-7500" underneath Eindhoven refer to?

^^ Industrial areas.

What does the "7000-7500" underneath Eindhoven refer to?

In all major Dutch cities (and also in Rotterdam Port) they use numbers from 0000-9999 to designated industrial areas.

That makes it fairly easy (if one wants to follow truck routes) to reach such areas from the highways without getting stuck in narrow inner city streets. I guess the "tradition"steems from the past, before GPS units, so that you didn't need to bother with the specifics of an industrial park, just followed the signs according to the numbers.

Rotterdam docks are numbered the same way. But the scale of things there is 2 orders of magnitude bigger...

^^ In southern-Limburg the numbers go up to 27.000 if I remember correctly.

So if you want to go to 7000, you head towards Meerhoven. And if you want to go to 7000, you head towards Eindhoven.

^^ There is no number 7000 ;)

They usually take steps of 5 (1025-1030-1035) or 10 at a time to number industrial houses. Which means that when you have number 1200, your neighbour will have 1205 or 1210. They also don't use the 'border-numbers' (in this case 7000).

Major problems in Eindhoven, a suspended bicycle circle above a road intersection is on the verge of collapsing. The road has been shut down and traffic is diverted. The bicycle circle is currently still under construction. This appears to be a major design flaw.

http://www.ed.nl/multimedia/archive/02256/Hovenring3_2256264a.JPG

http://bermtoerist.org/jalbum/N2-Meerhoven/2011-Week51/20111225-140123.JPG
What's the specific flaw? (Did someone forget to carry the '2' in a calculation??? :nono: )

Mike

A suspended hovering bicycle roundabout?! Well, there's something I've never seen before...

What's the specific flaw? (Did someone forget to carry the '2' in a calculation??? :nono: )

Mike
The ropes which suspend the bicycle circle are shaking too much when there is a lot of wind.

Conclusion: The ropes aren't strong enough... :doh:

Well it's not the first time we built some extravaganza bicycle infrastructure.

For instance this 300 meter, € 21 million bicycle bridge span next to A1 near Muiden (foreground)
http://i40.tinypic.com/rw1nbb.jpg

Or this bicycle bridge across A12 near Zoetermeer.
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/110/289866211_79287950e1_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zoetnet/289866211/)
fietsbrug (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zoetnet/289866211/) by zoetnet (http://www.flickr.com/people/zoetnet/), on Flickr

Or this bridge across N331 in Zwolle.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2703/4034877444_d15a84f70e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fietsberaad/4034877444/)
Fietsbrug (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fietsberaad/4034877444/) by Fietsberaad (http://www.flickr.com/people/fietsberaad/), on Flickr

Or this one in Maastricht.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2513/4034086759_8155ee6971_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fietsberaad/4034086759/)
Fietsbrug (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fietsberaad/4034086759/) by Fietsberaad (http://www.flickr.com/people/fietsberaad/), on Flickr

Just thought I'd share this vid: in 2 mins from the center of Amsterdam to Vianen, just south of Utrecht via Haarlemmerweg, A10 and A2. Video by Thomas Schlijper, an Amsterdam based photographer (www.schlijper.nl).

_13UCpgMbD8

Kerensheide interchange (http://maps.google.nl/maps?ll=50.967246,5.7885602&z=16&t=h&hl=en) flyover progress.

http://i.imgur.com/XLMWO.jpg

^^
That's a factory in the background, right?

^^ Yep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM_(company)

Yep, Chemelot. The photo covers just about one third of the total industrial complex. It spans for almost 5 kilometers along A2. It may be the biggest industrial complex outside the Port of Rotterdam area.

It is about the same size as Tata Steel IJmuiden.

The design-record of decision for the widening of N31 through the town of Harlingen, Fryslân province, has been published today.

http://i.imgur.com/y7DkQ.png

The N31 will be widened from 1x2 to 2x2 lanes. The road will be depressed through Harlingen, at -4.6 meters. There will be one interchange to serve the city, instead of several ramps spread out along the corridor. The crossing with the Van Harinxma shipping canal will be an aquaduct, where the N31 will run at -10.0 meters. The whole depressed route is 1.8 kilometers long. This is the final project to widen N31 to a motorway or a 2x2, limited access expressway. Construction is expected to begin in 2013. The project is due for completion in 2017 and cost € 143 million.

http://i.imgur.com/L8bIk.jpg

^^ Isn't that acquaduct an overkill? N31 crosses that canal near an industrial zone that is not even part of "old" Harlingen. But, apparently, acquaducts are the new Fryslând windmills: popping everywhere.

Why building a trench in the difficult Dutch terrain, instead of a bypass in the fields outside the town?

Another question: does anyone have photos of the new landtunnel in Utrecht, maybe also showing the outside' Will it be covered by grass to make it resemble a hill?

A new alignment east of Harlingen was considered, however it would still need an aquaduct, as a high bridge is considered horizon pollution in the flat open spaces of Fryslân. Furthermore, the road needed to be longer than the original road, increasing cost, while the original road must've been retained anyway for traffic to and from Harlingen, thus the barrier the elevated road currently is, would remain. This is a better solution for both Harlingen and traffic interests.

A new alignment east of Harlingen was considered, however it would still need an aquaduct, as a high bridge is considered horizon pollution in the flat open spaces of Fryslân. Furthermore, the road needed to be longer than the original road, increasing cost, while the original road must've been retained anyway for traffic to and from Harlingen, thus the barrier the elevated road currently is, would remain. This is a better solution for both Harlingen and traffic interests.

If I understand it correct, they will depress the current track of N31 and widen it. Creating only one interchange for the city traffic. Having it run under the railway and the canal.

Do you have any visualisations? I would be curious about how do they plan to connect both parts of the city. Why dont they make it run in a tunnel altogether through the city? I would imagine that running it in a tunnel, not constructing aquaduct and enlarging the original bridge could be also a solution, and not much more expensive I would guess. But yes, opening the biridge would pose a problem. Thus aquaduct is better variant.

It would be interesting to know, whether the land above the tunnel could be sold to developers (or othewise rented etc.) to cover for the additional costs of building a tunnel and perhaps making a small profit compared to the no tunnel variant of it lowering the overall costs of the project.

I think that some real estate development is planned to finance part of the investment of the city. At least it looks like there are some new buildings in the visualizations.

There are several visualizations here: http://www.viadrupsteen.nl/gbo-n31/

This is one of them:
http://f.cl.ly/items/1z0M3X1X0N2N3j312z2k/Schermafbeelding%202012-01-13%20om%2016.08.48.png

Thank you for the link. Nice visualisations. I think there could have been at least short tunnel made to make the city bit compact.

Limburg:
F_T1cagYtwY

W2Q9gCnkuD8

Thank you for the link. Nice visualisations. I think there could have been at least short tunnel made to make the city bit compact.

No need for that. Harlingen is already compact enough.

I made a little map of Fryslân (Friesland) province with all motorways and expressways to be completed by 2020. This map only includes 2x2 expressways with limited-access (grade-separation). In my opinion, Fryslân surely has the best road infrastructure of the Netherlands, considering the province has only 650 000 inhabitants.

http://i.imgur.com/MzDQp.png

Do you think will N31 sections be renamed to A31?

^^ No, I wouldn't count on that.

No, these sections won't meet motorway standards.

I would think that the aquaduct is mainly for the benefit of boats and not for the cars

^^ it is also a benefit for cars: they don't have to wait for boats. Example: the bridge near the Volkeraksluizen (http://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.688491,4.408334&spn=0.001886,0.005284&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=51.688328,4.408333&panoid=OxVUkMfjB7h8nudrLfJFhg&cbp=12,322.87,,0,0.37) opens approx. every 30-45 mins.

Yes, the Van Brienenoord Bridge at Rotterdam has issues with me:

"Quick, he's coming, open up"

^^ We have that with the Haringvlietbridge, which is 3 kms north of the Volkeraksluizen which I mentioned. We have to wait there 80% of the time....... Could be worse: my neighbour drives there about once a week, an the last time he didn't have to wait was somewhere in october last year.

http://i.imgur.com/wTLoT.jpg

Minister Schultz has formally chosen the bridge alternative for the extension of A15 from interchange Ressen to A12 near Zevenaar. There was a large amount of public input, with 1501 comments, out of which 443 were unique. The project will cost € 750 million, out of which € 282.5 million will be paid by tolls. The project is planned to be constructed between 2015 and 2018.

Below is an animation of the first leg of the Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere megaproject, the widening of A10 and A1 to 2x4 lanes in the direct vicinity of Amsterdam.

5fcfu1uh0xQ

^^ And together with that the ground-level video
yZtQ2ZmusXg

(GMaps link (http://maps.google.nl/maps?saddr=A10&daddr=A1&hl=nl&ll=52.36973,5.024185&spn=0.237709,0.676346&sll=52.331982,4.967709&sspn=0.059478,0.169086&geocode=FYp3HgMd4PdKAA%3BFbCIHgMd_FxMAA&vpsrc=6&mra=me&mrsp=1,0&sz=13&t=h&z=11))

(Chris, you were fast. I posted the vid like 4 mins ago on the Dutch road forum :))

[IMG]The project will cost € 750 million, out of which € 282.5 million will be paid by tolls. The project is planned to be constructed between 2015 and 2018.

Shadow tolls or proper tolls? How will collection be?

Real tolls. I don't think they opt for pyshical toll collection with a toll plaza, so it's going to be some kind of electronic toll collection.

There will be 5 ETC locations in the Netherlands by 2020;

* A13 Tunnel Rotterdam
* A15 Bridge Pannerdensch Canal
* A24 Blankenburg Tunnel Rotterdam
* N62 Westerschelde Tunnel
* N217 Kil Tunnel

Finally a new video :)
tsWWYvjo4RI

Map (http://maps.google.nl/maps?saddr=A16%2FA58&daddr=Onbekende+weg&hl=nl&ll=51.646998,4.957581&spn=0.966308,2.705383&sll=51.483949,5.393043&sspn=0.015153,0.042272&geocode=FShVEgMdpFtIAA%3BFeCNEQMdFGxSAA&vpsrc=6&mra=me&mrsp=1,0&sz=15&t=h&z=9)

A2 Leidsche Rijn Tunnel, Utrecht

The opening permit for the A2 Leidsche Rijn Tunnel has finally been issued by the Utrecht municipality. The 10-lane tunnel has been completed in 2010, but disagreement over safety procedures, protocols and equipment have delayed the opening for 2 years. The exact opening date is not known yet, but the tunnel will likely open in phases over the course of several weekends, possibly requiring A2 closures to switch traffic to the new lanes.

This completes the 10-laning of 30 kilometers of A2 between Amsterdam and Utrecht. As a temporary solution, the old A2 alignment has been widened to an improvised 2x4 lanes to reduce the extreme traffic congestion that was occurring there. The old A2 will be demolished after the tunnel goes into operation.

6Lm9by0EBZE

The tunnel starts at 3:50

The opening permit for the A2 Leidsche Rijn Tunnel has finally been issued by the Utrecht municipality. The 10-lane tunnel has been completed in 2010, but disagreement over safety procedures, protocols and equipment have delayed the opening for 2 years.
2 years?!

We had something similar in Warsaw for about an year (Wisłostrada tunnel). Didn't know it could be worse...

^^ we've also had a 50-year+ long discussion about building a road of which the sand was already laying there (A4 Delft - Schiedam). Thank god that highway's being built too..

2 years?!

Yeah. And it's not the first time, we had major issues with the A73 tunnels near Roermond. They malfunctioned and closed very often (more than 1 000 times per year, though the majority where very short term closures).

We can't have this tunnel close every time for no reason. 200 000 vehicles per day will use it, any unnecessary closure would potentially gridlock the entire province as nearby motorways also carry more than 150 000 vehicles per day.

It's better safe than sorry this time.

The tunnel will have 4 tubes with a local-express setup. The express lanes have 3 lanes per direction and carry through traffic that has no destination or origin in the city of Utrecht (population: 300 000). There are 2 local lanes each way for traffic to and from various exits that serve the city. The tunnel has space reserved for 12 and possibly 14 lanes while maintaining a continuous shoulder in each of the tubes.

The tunnel will likely opened phase by phase (likely first the local lanes in the southbound direction) to see if any problems may occur before all traffic is directed through the tunnel.

According to ChrisZwolle's video, not only the A2 will be 2x5, but there'll be an enormous reserve lane on the left. What will it be used for ? Emergency & police vehicles ? Snelbus as in the Belgian Flanders ? Or ? ...

& I assume the speed limit will be variable here, right ?

The A2 is already 2x5. Most of the project in that video has already been completed, only the tunnel is not opened yet.

There is a requirement that, if reasonably possible, a left shoulder is provided if there are 4 or more lanes per direction for longer distances. This left shoulder however, is superwide, there is space for 2x6 lanes without needing to pave anything while keeping a small left shoulder. However, for 2x6 lanes to work, the interchanges need improvement (specifically interchange Holendrecht where A2 meets A9). Considering the level of service will be acceptable for many years to come, I don't think we'll see 2x6 lanes anytime soon.

The speed limit is 100 km/h day and night, and will be enforced by section control later in 2012.

I'm interested in the (presumably) concrete walls between express and collector lanes that can be seen past the tunnel. Are they built in expectation of covering that section as well?

I'm interested in the (presumably) concrete walls between express and collector lanes that can be seen past the tunnel. Are they built in expectation of covering that section as well?

Nope, these walls are sound barriers!

Well, judging by the mass of the walls they seem like a huge overkill for sound barriers to me. But it's only a visualization, and after all, everything is possible. :)

Yeah. And it's not the first time, we had major issues with the A73 tunnels near Roermond. They malfunctioned and closed very often (more than 1 000 times per year, though the majority where very short term closures).

We can't have this tunnel close every time for no reason. 200 000 vehicles per day will use it, any unnecessary closure would potentially gridlock the entire province as nearby motorways also carry more than 150 000 vehicles per day.

It's better safe than sorry this time.

The tunnel will have 4 tubes with a local-express setup. The express lanes have 3 lanes per direction and carry through traffic that has no destination or origin in the city of Utrecht (population: 300 000). There are 2 local lanes each way for traffic to and from various exits that serve the city. The tunnel has space reserved for 12 and possibly 14 lanes while maintaining a continuous shoulder in each of the tubes.

The tunnel will likely opened phase by phase (likely first the local lanes in the southbound direction) to see if any problems may occur before all traffic is directed through the tunnel.

For maintenance it would be no harm to impose nightime closures from time to time, provided that a proper diversion is generated. This is what they do in the UK: Night time tunnel closures, lane closures and diversions. Actually, in the UK the've gone a little carried away with these nightime roadworks.

According mail I receive - Traffic jams on N2 in between exits Veldhoven and Veldhoven Zuid will increase again cause of problems with bicycles bridge which require to close some roads in vicinity.
Good news - new exit on A67 near Koningshof will be created :) That's great info :)
When exactly? Anyone knows?

Milestones:

(....)
* record of decision: A2 's-Hertogenbosch - Eindhoven widening (2x3)
(...)
A video of that road, before the roadworks are visible. They have started with cutting trees near Vught.
fmtZxX5CPGA

The opening dates for each of the tubes:

* western local tube: January 30th
* western express tube: February 20th
* eastern express tube: April 16th
* eastern local tube: June 18th

http://www.rws.nl/images/Luchtfoto%20A2%20ter%20hoogte%20van%20de%20gemeente%20Stichtse%20Vecht_tcm174-303318.jpg

The opening dates for each of the tubes:

* western local tube: January 30th
* western express tube: February 20th
* eastern express tube: April 16th
* eastern local tube: June 18th


Why is it going to take 6 freaking months to open all lanes?

^^ Probably to study the results of opening a tube. If everything works correctly etc. Just be glad it's actually being opened...

Are dutch people willing to pay toll fares? Dutch people are already spending a lot of money on these special purpose taxes.

I think the Dutch are willing to pay tolls only if other taxes are reduced significantly. There's no sense in paying tolls while you already pay the road network 5 times.

The council of state has rejected all appeals against the widening of the A27 on the east side of Utrecht from 2x4 to 4+6 lanes. The northbound roadway will be widened from 4 to 6 lanes, by adding 1 through lane and 1 auxiliary lane. This means there will be 3 through lanes and 3 exit lanes towards the A28. The new lanes will open in the summer of 2012. The A27 carries 200.000 vehicles per day at this point.

It is a temporary solution until around 2020, when it's planned to widen this section of A27 to 14 lanes.

cross section:
http://i.imgur.com/hLbSj.jpg

The right roadway will be widened to 6 lanes.
http://i.imgur.com/xn9V0.jpg

Nice, won't take a gazillion years this time either :D.

The widening of the N207 provincial highway in the Noord-Holland province was kicked off yesterday. The N207 will be widened from 1x2 to 2x2 lanes in two phases. It will not be an expressway, because the traffic signals will remain in place. The current N207 carries 26.000 - 29.000 vehicles per day and is severely saturated. The road crosses two railways and a couple of canals, and mainly serves regional traffic in southern Noord-Holland province. The project will be completed in two phases in the summers of 2013 and 2014.

http://i.imgur.com/iZS0h.png

http://www.noord-holland.nl/upload/70a8c952-8dc6-417e-99f2-6ee7d1ecd0c9_Rijbaanverdubbeling%20N207.jpg

The Hague intersection A12-A4 'Prins Clausplein':

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3860/prinsclausplein.png

^^ Nice pic! :okay:

A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord progression

All the pics that I took can be found here (https://picasaweb.google.com/116367240884216710819/A4HalsterenDinteloordFotoUpdatesVerzameld#5702375725475002210)

Activity near exit Halsteren: working on the median?
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9FOXxed6rq4/TyLpGo7VLgI/AAAAAAAADXE/dc-5soH04Vc/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520035.JPG

Lagemetenweg looking north: Trucks were driving over the new road here after they had dumped their stuff near Klutsdorp, they all drove over the entire new road and got back on public roads on top of the exit Halsteren:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-905JPsBtcgA/TyLpLqd4GZI/AAAAAAAADXc/kERZC9jTJi4/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520038.JPG

They were still working next to the road:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-IzRihEVzDLI/TyLrdL3PllI/AAAAAAAADX8/nk5DzkfKFMA/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520041.JPG

It's a pipe being relocated: the current pipe crosses the new road diagonally:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BWmXTkGu2qU/TyLrfJvNzbI/AAAAAAAADYI/D-Rri5TlNWQ/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520042.JPG

There were at all times at least 5 trucks here:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MJQGokUQUSE/TyLo641vSII/AAAAAAAADWM/Nkb-eK5i9Cw/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520028.JPG

And of course we're going to take a look from the other side:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XvW86jR9ZFw/TyLowcMr3aI/AAAAAAAADU8/t0449WIgevo/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520018.JPG

Near 'de Dassenberg' (small forest area) looking north:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-drfXJjcOers/TyLokTdUKfI/AAAAAAAADTc/XGMRH_vfteI/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520006.JPG

Some extra trees had been cut sonce the last time:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kNGB5SeXO34/TyLoqT-8rdI/AAAAAAAADUQ/2nN53St7bAQ/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520012.JPG

From the N259 near klutsdorp looking south
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9LVUPixc5r0/TyLoyPp-mXI/AAAAAAAADVM/aq2lXVKrsos/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520020.JPG

This house is being knocked down too, they haven't progressed much in the past 3 weeks:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qDUGnHPU9MA/TyLrswQLA3I/AAAAAAAADZE/b1s8rbaHHwU/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520049.JPG

There was so little traffic on the N259 I decided to take some pics that I wouldn't be able to make in normal conditions:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LJCOTXfuKMM/TyL8KlMfzdI/AAAAAAAADhM/ttg2IOcY4Oc/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520055.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QQiF-aVrPmw/TyL8KtLHROI/AAAAAAAADg4/n2kGJRIGEeY/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520056.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DTikhZoVN7c/TyL8LogWI3I/AAAAAAAADhE/tMdiREFSnrI/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520057.JPG

(Annoying sun....)
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BWgoI20vbWA/TyL8MDYgjFI/AAAAAAAADhU/1BeVfQkKulE/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520059.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1fOtQQqOJ90/TyL8MsqnyKI/AAAAAAAADhY/AfTwuG4XsyE/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520060.JPG


Due to a deadly accident the N259 was closed between Steenbergen and Halsteren, only a small part was actually closed due to accident itself, the rest was closed because the extremely small roads in the polders were flooded with traffic (little bit of pun intended):
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hgKeC6QQ6yY/TyL60X2XtdI/AAAAAAAADf8/LfaThuJAfXk/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520023.JPG

And a pic of the crash:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-MMG3KEUwGG8/TyL6y_1d-zI/AAAAAAAADf0/kDbt5T1nacc/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520017.JPG

Some pictures of today of the A15 widening south of Rotterdam (near Barendrecht)
http://foto.autosnelwegen.net/28-01-12/005.jpg

http://foto.autosnelwegen.net/28-01-12/002.jpg

http://foto.autosnelwegen.net/28-01-12/003.jpg

http://foto.autosnelwegen.net/28-01-12/008.jpg

http://foto.autosnelwegen.net/28-01-12/011.jpg

^^ A sandbox for professionals :)

Here are a few shots of the A27 widening near Utrecht. The current 4+4 lanes will be widened to 4+6 lanes, 6 northbound lanes to create a continuous 3-lane configuration from A12 to A28 to bypass Utrecht.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6777394989_0e65165079_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777394989/)
A27-1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777394989/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7173/6777395079_20f4469b82_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395079/)
A27-2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395079/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6777395217_a5d3e871a0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395217/)
A27-3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395217/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7143/6777395403_929a3b4512_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395403/)
A27-4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395403/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7027/6777395581_fcfd5848ac_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395581/)
A27-5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395581/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6777395711_9269ca52f6_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395711/)
A27-6 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395711/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6777395865_97eedac56a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395865/)
A27-7 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6777395865/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

The first tube of the long-awaited Tunnel Leidsche Rijn along A2 in the city of Utrecht opened to traffic today.

I recorded it at 5 pm.

Q3HZ4P9MKSo

^^
the video is private

^^ Not anymore :)

Idiotic demonstrations in Vlaardingen today against the A15 extension (Blankenburgtunnel). :ohno:

^^ That's the A24 ;)

Just ignore NIMBY's, when you give them attention, you're giving them more power as they become more known.

Though it wouldn't be a bad idea if theNIMBY's are known in the country, to start something similar as the NIMBY's but then in favour of the highway. Like someone did in the case of the A4 Delft - Vlaardingen. Link to the site (http://www.a4middendelfland.nl/)

Oh didn't know it's going to get it's own A number. Interesting.

600 BANANA's versus 80 0000 motorists.

Construction of the second Waal River Bridge at Ewijk (A50 motorway).

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7005/6776093891_f1d7cace38_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21878423@N03/6776093891/)
DSC_0925 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21878423@N03/6776093891/) by jeroenvanlieshout (http://www.flickr.com/people/21878423@N03/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7175/6776117485_34bc9fc662_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21878423@N03/6776117485/)
DSC_0932 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21878423@N03/6776117485/) by jeroenvanlieshout (http://www.flickr.com/people/21878423@N03/), on Flickr

^^ That's the A24 ;)

Just ignore NIMBY's, when you give them attention, you're giving them more power as they become more known.

Though it wouldn't be a bad idea if theNIMBY's are known in the country, to start something similar as the NIMBY's but then in favour of the highway. Like someone did in the case of the A4 Delft - Vlaardingen. Link to the site (http://www.a4middendelfland.nl/)


Ideally I'd see ALL the roads on this map from that site being built:
http://www.a4middendelfland.nl/images/stories/alle_varianten.jpg

Every single one of them should be built imho...
Would make a Rotterdam-Amsterdam trip a lot quicker too!
To be entirely honest, I'd rather see the A16 extended to Berkel&Rodenrijs-Bleiswijk-Zoetermeer-Leiden than to the A13, that is only really re-reouting some traffic off the A20, but doesn't make the trip in any way shorter or quicker ( when the A13/A20 aren't congested). Would also make the trip from Rotterdam-east and Capelle ad Ijssel and that region, to The Hague FAR shorter ( Extended A16-A12 is better than A20-A16/A13-A13-A4).

A28 Zwolle - Meppel

Congestion has been reduced to virtually zero since the widening of the A28 motorway between Zwolle and Meppel has been completed. Preliminary figures show a 96% decrease in traffic congestion since completion in May and October, the most recent month with traffic congestion data available, as published by the Overijssel provincial government.

http://i.imgur.com/VZWuv.jpg

^^ I agree.
I could do as proef person on this stretch of A28.
Almost 3 years every Monday from beginning of A28 (north) to the end of A50 (on south). The worst was 2010 and 2011 on Q1 and Q2. Delays and time I spent there was part of my life :D And now driving almost non-stop 120-126 km/h on the same stretch :) Good job was done.

Ideally I'd see ALL the roads on this map from that site being built:


Every single one of them should be built imho...


I'd add another road: an A13/A29 connection through Rotterdam. Mostly an elevated freeway + a 4-km tunnel in the central area.

I know - pipe dream.

^^ grade-separating the Maastunnel route.

A12 Utrecht - Veenendaal

A few aerial photos of the A12 works between Utrecht and Veenendaal.

1. temporary phase at Veenendaal. The end product will feature 2x3 lanes.
http://i.imgur.com/kiypE.jpg

2. The Veenendaal west interchange is highly outdated.
http://i.imgur.com/QaiWV.jpg

3. Widening works
http://i.imgur.com/9cPdy.jpg

4. The Netherlands has many artificial canals for water drainage reasons.
http://i.imgur.com/eXwYJ.jpg

5. A new ecoduct Rumelaar.
http://i.imgur.com/IRwMY.jpg

6. Widening through the Maarsbergen area.
http://i.imgur.com/kuIqt.jpg

7. Tight quarters at times. Some hope the railway will be widened to 4 tracks but that seems costly.
http://i.imgur.com/Rswsd.jpg

8.
http://i.imgur.com/YvBCW.jpg

9. There will be a left shoulder until all works are completed.
http://i.imgur.com/9o0S6.jpg

10. New viaduct
http://i.imgur.com/S4FNw.jpg

11. The end product; a top-notch high-capacity motorway.
http://i.imgur.com/8YYS2.jpg

I never realized A2 now has 16 lanes between Utrecht and interchange Oudenrijn. It's very brief though, not as impressive as the other 16 lane motorway (http://binged.it/zYs5q1) near Ridderkerk.

16 lanes:
http://i.imgur.com/G2fou.jpg

14 lanes, only 10 lanes are for through traffic though.
http://i.imgur.com/hso2w.jpg

The A2 reconstruction has been quite thoroughly. Every offramp in the Utrecht area has at least 2 lanes. All traffic signals near the interchanges have at least 2 lanes for every direction. Usually the lack of intersection capacity was one of the reasons offramp traffic congestion occurred. They also added auxiliary lanes in many locations, instead of two merges close to each other.

I think they should name the A2 after former transportation minister Eurlings. The Eurlings Motorway. Sounds nice :) After all he made most current projects possible.

ChrisZwolle, :banana: thanks for posting the pics. I wanted to see this for a long while.
I lived in Utrecht and Zeist, and going east towards Germany was always a bit claustrofobic on a 2 way lane... Now it starts to look like a highway :)
Part of the traintracks eastwards from Utrecht are under construction to be 4 tracks, at least untill close to Maarn. This will solve part of the congestion on the rest of the Utrecht-Arnhem route that would be 160km/h in the near future is the idea, but safetyrules from Brussels might rule otherwise. At least this will make some trains faster, for now they have to slow down to often.
Germany offered to build a 200km/h line from Duisburg till the Dutch border years ago, but Holland didn't want to make clear commitments. Around Wesel the max speed also would be 160km/h. Let's see what the future brings.
At one hand the Euro will stay in a crisis, at the other hand Holland and Germany are still rich. Iran and Saudi Arabia are at the moment busy to strenghten their Oil contracts with China-India. So Oil prices might rise for the comming decade, this might help the motivation to use more trains.

63wyd7EDwW4&feature=plcp&context=C3ea0ea2UDOEgsToPDskIS5VgEjkQjDvWldGc3w047

Here is a video I made while driving on the highway A50 driving from interchange Waterberg (where the A12 combines with the A50) to interchange Grijsoord (where the A50 splits from the A12) and then onto Nijmegen.

Vide was made about 1 month ago.

Extreme traffic congestion due to some snow in northwestern Netherlands. Currently near 3000 kilometers of roadways with slow or stationary traffic.
http://i.imgur.com/Gn79T.png

Amsterdam is the hardest-hit region, with a complete collapse of traffic.
http://i.imgur.com/8OjPB.png

^^ So that why I traveled at night to Groningen to avoid this situation today :D Now working from warm home :)
A lot of snow is in whole Groningen and Drethe Province. So picturesque :) And Rijkwastraat can use salt they've bought after last winter experience :P

BTW, Chris do you know where can I find information about temperature in werkplaats/office and regulation/law saying when I don't have to commute to work in case of low temperature and snow fall?

A total of 412 kilometer already :|

Longest traffic jams:

A9 Alkmaar - Amstelveen
tussen Heerhugowaard en Amstelveen
31 km stilstaand verkeer (vertraging: meer dan 30 min)

A10 Coenplein (binnenring)
tussen Kadoelen en knp. Coenplein
30 km langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer

A10 Coenplein (buitenring)
tussen knp. Coenplein en Kadoelen
31 km langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer (vertraging: meer dan 30 min)

A28 Utrecht - Zwolle
tussen knp. Rijnsweerd en Nijkerk
30 km langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer (vertraging: meer dan 30 min)

Zwolle - Utrecht
tussen Strand Nulde en knp. Rijnsweerd
33 km langzaam rijdend tot stilstaand verkeer (vertraging: meer dan 30 min)A10 = Amsterdam Ringroad

Longest delay: A6 Muiderberg --> Joure between Muiderberg and Emmeloord: ± 70 kms with 173 mins delay

Extreme traffic congestion due to some snow in northwestern Netherlands. Currently near 3000 kilometers of roadways with slow or stationary traffic.
http://i.imgur.com/Gn79T.png

Amsterdam is the hardest-hit region, with a complete collapse of traffic.
http://i.imgur.com/8OjPB.png

Holy Cow!!

^^
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8083/tomtom2.png

5000+ kilometers :D
http://i.imgur.com/Yw3K2.png

In Italy Tom Tom says more than 110 minutes to do 800 yards in A1 (near Frosinone).

5000+ kilometers :D
http://i.imgur.com/Yw3K2.png

In deze weergave.. In this view:)

But.. do 'we' have a new record??

For a better understanding i have zoomed out a bit... Looks like half of the country to me:)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/kosimodo/winter.jpg

In deze weergave.. In this view:)

But.. do 'we' have a new record??

Nope, a third place so far with 830 km reported so far: in reality this is higher because in some places there is little data. Currently it's 770 km, it's getting less, but rush hour is nearby.

This was just posted on the site of the VID (kind of the traffic agency):

It's Google Translated, but it gives a good idea:
Third worst striker ever

The snow front that Friday across the country draws creates huge inconvenience to road, rail and air. Around half past three was already more than 830 kilometers file. This brings these "tips" on the 3rd place in the list of worst strikers ever. Besides measuring the FID with its own inwinnetwerk at over 90 locations aanaanzienlijke delays. Traffic around Amsterdam is now almost terminal: traffic jams of 20 to 30 miles on the A4, A8, A9 and A10 are no exception. Inter alia, the A6 and A28 are reports of accidents involving multiple vehicles involved. The traffic is disrupted. NS (trains) from 11:00 a custom schedule promulgated. Attempts to many stations to reach. At Schiphol, flights delayed and canceled because of the snow clearing and holding in takeoff and landing time consuming. The snow front moves slowly to the south, so the nuisance in the Rotterdam and Brabant are not yet at peak. There where no snow falls, the problems are not over: the snow beneath. The congestion is the removal of snow plows and spreaders no simple task. The crowds also affects the website of the VID. To give everyone the best possible service, has switched to a site with limited functionality. As soon as the situation permits will be switched back to the regular site. This message is updated regularly. Last update: 15:40.

Dude, make some effort in providing a decent translation.

Worst striker ever....

1 Stephane Guivarc'h

Some truly great strikers have graced the pitch at Newcastle. Milburn, Macdonald, Shearer and, erm, Guivarc'h! What is so remarkable about this story is that the Geordies thought they were buying a World Cup winner, which they were, but they probably should have taken more note of the fact that he failed to score a single goal in the winning campaign of 1998. He failed to produce any decent form after his £3.5m move to the Magpies and departed - after just four appearances and one goal - up to Rangers, citing that he wasn't part of Ruud Gullit's plans.

:)

Dude, make some effort in providing a decent translation.

Dude, I had to go to my neighbours so I had to do it quick, this was the quickest way. I'm currently making a better one :)

Here it is :)
Hope everything is correct since I only used what I know :)
Third worst rush hour ever

The snowfront that is crossing the country today is creating huge problems on the road, on rail and in the air. Around half past three was already more than 830 kilometers of traffic jam in the country. Which puts this rush hour on the 3rd place in the list of worst rush hours ever. Besides that, the VID is measuring huge delays on provincial roads with its own data at over 90 locations. Traffic around Amsterdam is now almost grounded to a stand still: traffic jams of 20 to 30 kilometers on the A4, A8, A9 and A10 are no exception. From the A6 and A28 we're receiving that there have been serious accidents with multiple vhicles involved. The traffic is disrupted. NS (runs the trains in NL) is currently using a snow-schedule: which means that there are less trains driving. With these fewer trains the NS is trying to reach all train stations as often as possible. At Schiphol, flights are delayed and being cancelled because of the snow clearing. This is because it takes a lot of time to keep the landing strips snow free. The snow front is moving slowly to the south, so the problems in Rotterdam and North-Brabant are not yet at peak (EDIT: they currently are: it has stopped snowing here). But also where the snow has stopped, there are still a lot of problems. Because of the congestion it is very hard for snow ploughs to keep the roads clear. The crowds also affects the website of the VID. To give everyone the best possible service, we've switched to a site with limited functionality. As soon as the situation permits will be switched back to the regular site. This message is updated regularly. Last update: 15:40.

Dude, I had to go to my neighbours so I had to do it quick...

Hmm, a quicky at the neighbours??:nuts:

^^ Stop turning my words into things you want to hear ;)

Interesting, a suffixed road number in the Netherlands:

http://dd50.inducks.org/wegen/imgb/b013/n260an260_7681.jpg

Interesting, a suffixed road number in the Netherlands:

http://dd50.inducks.org/wegen/imgb/b013/n260an260_7681.jpg
I though only Italy has them.

double post, please delete it

I though only Italy has them.
For The Netherlands: It is our first one :)
Italy is not the only one, Belgium has them too. A lot of them. For example: a map of the N90z
http://dd50.inducks.org/wegen/imgz/k002/kn90z.jpg

A list of roads in Belgium can be found here (scroll down)
http://wegnummers.autosnelwegen.nl/wegen/belgie/

^^

Also in Catalan roads:

http://i.imgur.com/6Iuaf.png (http://imgur.com/6Iuaf)

But probably Italy is the only (European) country to have them on motorways.

Switzerland has many suffixes for motorways numbers. The United Kingdom uses the A1 (M) suffix for A-roads with motorway status. Greece has its weird A8a. But other than that suffixes for motorway numbers are rare indeed.

But probably Italy is the only (European) country to have them on motorways.

Nope, Belgium strikes again: R5a (Google Maps) (http://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Halle,+Belgi%C3%AB&hl=nl&ie=UTF8&ll=50.463273,4.029432&spn=0.000975,0.002642&sll=52.469397,5.509644&sspn=3.794958,10.821533&oq=Halle&hnear=Halle,+Vlaams-Brabant,+Vlaams+Gewest,+Belgi%C3%AB&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=50.463273,4.029432&panoid=17PJSIergo1sj8vL8YrNDg&cbp=12,4.31,,1,5.89)
http://dd50.inducks.org/wegen/imgz/z005/8032r5a.jpg

http://dd50.inducks.org/wegen/imgz/z005/8030r5a.jpg
Pics from http://wegnummers.autosnelwegen.nl/wegen/belgie/

Interesting, a suffixed road number in the Netherlands:



There is an explanation.

N260a used to be N260. Then they built the new Tilburg Outer Ring (west sector) and from that traffic onwards, a small stub around gilze-rijen air base was left alone and now is n260a.

By the way, N260a has a strange feature: an airplane traffic light. It passes too close on a runway's end and they give you red light 150m away so that you don't cross the runway projection for safety reasons (of the car).

By the way, N260a has a strange feature: an airplane traffic light. It passes too close on a runway's end and they give you red light 150m away so that you don't cross the runway projection for safety reasons (of the car).
I had absolutely no idea that there were traffic lights for that. After a bit of searching, here (http://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Gilze&hl=nl&ll=51.563075,4.951633&spn=0.000952,0.002642&sll=52.469397,5.509644&sspn=3.794958,10.821533&hnear=Gilze,+Gilze+en+Rijen,+Noord-Brabant&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.563075,4.951633&panoid=gRyWW08LqI2uBs5U0a2A0w&cbp=12,12.62,,0,8.5) and here (http://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Gilze&hl=nl&ll=51.567067,4.95153&spn=0.015232,0.042272&sll=52.469397,5.509644&sspn=3.794958,10.821533&hnear=Gilze,+Gilze+en+Rijen,+Noord-Brabant&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=51.566807,4.951566&panoid=DaeWvxaPlvlm8eDneLvWag&cbp=12,184.94,,0,5.66) they are :)

The United Kingdom uses the A1 (M) suffix for A-roads with motorway status.Firstly, it's A1(M), not A1 (M). And it's a totally different suffix to the others, as it about legal status, rather than spurs, loops, old routes, etc.

But probably Italy is the only (European) country to have them on motorways.

No, another example of Catalan roads. See C-31C and C-32B:

http://i.imgur.com/LuThh.png (http://imgur.com/LuThh)

In the UK there is also an "M6Toll".

By the way, N260a has a strange feature: an airplane traffic light. It passes too close on a runway's end and they give you red light 150m away so that you don't cross the runway projection for safety reasons (of the car).

There is a level crossing also a level crossing here (http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Turtmann&hl=it&ll=46.304424,7.726839&spn=0.002109,0.004823&sll=46.362093,9.036255&sspn=4.283433,9.876709&hnear=Turtmann,+Vallese&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=46.304424,7.726839&panoid=XbapHeUO4oVgczdKVZtV6w&cbp=12,188.91,,0,1.4), on a taxiway of an airport. There is another one in the same airport, and a third in an airport to the right.

There was also a level crossing between an aerial ropeway and a road near Oberbozen in Italy, but I can't find the photo anymore.

^^ Gibraltar wins (http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Turtmann&hl=it&ll=36.150897,-5.348389&spn=0.004635,0.010568&sll=46.362093,9.036255&sspn=4.283433,9.876709&hnear=Turtmann,+Vallese&t=h&z=17)

We're going really off-topic btw...

Greece has its weird A8a.

At least and after so many years, this has been solved. Motorway sections are now signed as A8 and other sections are indicated as national road 8a.

We're going a bit off-topic here, so here are some pics of the A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord U/C:


Click here for all the pictures including locations (https://picasaweb.google.com/116367240884216710819/A4HalsterenDinteloordFotoUpdatesVerzameld#5705710070469603458)

a pipe line is being relocated next to the highway, the current one crosses the highway U/C diagonal: Picture of the works southbound:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LzctvXQiSYA/Ty7BE0PTcvI/AAAAAAAADmU/kntkVsA8kJM/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520002.JPG

Same pipe, northbound
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iQhrEHVw20Y/Ty7BG7y6xrI/AAAAAAAADw0/fOYV5tV-IgM/s720/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520005.JPG

From on top of exit Halsteren looking northbound:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8RkaARpEXkY/Ty7BIV7FfNI/AAAAAAAADnA/4nMIqSnK8N0/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520010.JPG

The new pipe line currently ends at this farm:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-diTuAK8vk68/Ty7BJ3WV5UI/AAAAAAAADnc/TS24mSkb4TA/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520013.JPG

From the same exit looking southbound towards the opened A4
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GhyJaUIB0sY/Ty7BMW9zqII/AAAAAAAADn4/7xXW6JXX0Sg/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520016.JPG

The A4 near the Dassenberg (forest) which hasn't been asphalted yet:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RQTsnV1HvDo/Ty7BPrSQVDI/AAAAAAAADoo/4PzzgfPWDGA/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520022.JPG

Dassenberg looking north:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kTMD-phZc-g/Ty7BTS0IxYI/AAAAAAAADpU/MYc-X7SiH-A/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520029.JPG

Groundworks for the bicycle bridge near Klutsdorp:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HBi0CFyKEnM/Ty7BU1UDESI/AAAAAAAADpg/C5gI_EdtFBE/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520031.JPG

Still at de Dassenberg, looking north at the future A4 one the carriageway towards Rotterdam:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tYcO27ry7BQ/Ty7BV32GjII/AAAAAAAADpw/cKrrwIBYtJc/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520033.JPG

From that carriagway there's a steep hill for workers to get on top of the future bicycle bridge:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-osTGu_t2I94/Ty7BYnID2MI/AAAAAAAADqU/h7VIUld4gVk/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520034.JPG

The private road near de Dassenberg was very slippery, so I left my bike at the beginning. (Yes I took the bike with temperatures that feel like -10)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-g5ubTJ1NOCg/Ty7BYqXTkpI/AAAAAAAADqQ/eQ15DwWBuBg/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520036.JPG

There's a lower speedlimit on the N259
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-S-IaYmHd-lc/Ty7BaqxLRYI/AAAAAAAADqw/dHfvuBMUBYQ/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520038.JPG

There's a second site office under construction on the north side of the N259, this explains the lower speedlimit because all the equipment has to cross the N259 to get to the current building site:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ST0FDi7hSX4/Ty7BgW4Ha4I/AAAAAAAADrg/zT2pRMpOH1A/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520045.JPG

At this site there are a lot of machines standing by :)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-anrb4Z2ZrBY/Ty7BhI49wQI/AAAAAAAADro/1Yf-zJ960sM/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520046.JPG

N259 near Klutsdorp, the carriageway towards BoZ (looking southbound)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oGO5a2N3MJ4/Ty7BerMdUbI/AAAAAAAADrQ/m9x9Q1nx_K4/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520043.JPG

Same spot, crriageway towards Rotterdam looking south
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cowe5LrIxfM/Ty7Be9qn2mI/AAAAAAAADrU/wcS87A3HEIA/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520044.JPG

Looking from the N259 near Klutsdorp at the former Nuijten farm:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JBqt2UX_sN0/Ty7Bnx6nRFI/AAAAAAAADsU/OkVBjmeIQx8/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%25205-2-2012%2520051.JPG

I didn't go to the farm, so here's a pic from last week there:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HHH4dWWxFPQ/TyLo2t2nIdI/AAAAAAAADVs/zaA4uCZ0TYs/s800/A4%252027-1-2012%2520en%2520dodelijk%2520ongeluk%2520N259%2520024.JPG

Congestion in January 2012 was down 35 percent compared to the five-year average, according to the Dutch motorist association ANWB. While January is usually the month with the lowest average traffic volumes, traffic congestion was still reduced a lot, especially in the Amsterdam region due to additional highway capacity.

Congestion in February 2012 may be up due to the massive rush hour on February 3rd due to snow.

(Yes I took the bike with temperatures that feel like -10)
Only dutchmen can do that:lol:

A parliamentary motion about 130 km/h in Dutch parliament was approved. The motion mandates that the speed limit should not be increased if it required measures to comply with limits, these are air quality screens (they look like low sound screens). A couple of million euros is saved by this motion, but it means the speed limit cannot be increased on 68 kilometers of motorway, or 2.7% of the proposed speed limit raises.

The following section cannot be raised without measures;

* A2 Vinkeveen - Tunnel Leidsche Rijn
* A2 Oudenrijn - Nieuwegein
* A12 Gouda - Reeuwijk
* A12 Woerden - Oudenrijn
* A12 Oudenrijn - Bunnik
* A20 Rotterdam
* A27 Lunetten - Houten
* A27 Everdingen - Lexmond

It is projected that the speed limit can be raised on these motorway sections between 2015 and 2020, because air quality gradually improves, but it takes some time.

The actual problems are insignificant. Raising the speed limit from 80 to 100 km/h in Rotterdam, Utrecht and Amsterdam would cause the concentration of NO2 to increase by 0.8 µg/m³ (limit is 40.0) and PM10 by a negligible amount (less than 0.1 µg/m³), based on studies where no section control is taken into consideration, so the differences would be even smaller in reality. It is projected air quality improves sufficiently in 3 - 8 years that the speed limit can be raised there too.

So unfortunately some urban motorways will keep their low speed limits because of some decimal problems.

The folly of carbon schemes. We could be a world leader in green electricity from wind, waves, tides and currents. We've already got the geography, all we need is some political guts. We could save a lot of CO2 emissions that way and have cleaner air to an extent that nobody would need to worry about a decimal difference between a maximum speed of 100 versus 130.

Instead we'll all just drive 100 (or worse: 80) and that way, we can keep our coal fired power plants..? It's maddeningly hypocritical and stupid. Don't they read books in parliament?

Yeah, funny story, I've read a cow belches 475 liters of methane per day. This is similar to 1760 kilos of CO2, but the greenhouse effect of methane is twenty times that of CO2, so the equivalent is 35200 kg of CO2 per day, or 12.8 million kilos of CO2 in a year. That's 5000 times of what my car emits in a year driving 20000 kilometers... :nuts::lol: So instead of driving a Prius, we should stop eating meat. :D

^^ I don't get it. You converted 475 liters of methane in 1760 kilos of CO2 and then again into 35200 kilos of methane ?!?

A cow belches 475 liters of methane a day. To convert liters to kilos CO2, you need to multiply it by 3.7, so I've read (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/co2.shtml). As methane has twenty times the greenhouse effect of CO2, you need to multiply that by 20 to get the CO2 equivalent. Then multiply it by 365 days and compare your car's CO2 emission (mine is 130 grams per km).

^^ There still something wrong. You cannot convert litres of methane into kilos of CO2 and then again multiply by 20, because that's the methane-co2 conversion factor and you already converted it into co2.
Why not converting a litre of methane directly into kilos of methane and then apply the factor 20 with respect to CO2?

A litre of methane weighs .4 kilos at STP. So 475 litres = 190 kg. Then you multiply by 20 and get 3800 kg of CO2 equivalent. That's more like it, the figure you proposed was unearthly.

EDIT: I found where you were wrong. 3.7 is the conversion between the weight of carbon in gasoline and co2... methane has nothing to do with it.

The point is that our government is a fine collection of dimly lit cowards :D

Well the carbon emmissions and greenhouse gas panic is in my eyes following completaly different intentions then playing the god, trying to engineer the nature.

If you know that the fossile fules are going to be depleted sooner or later, however they are getting rapidly scarce, and the remaining stocks are not in your possession, you play agenda of alternative resources. You keep the real motive behind this change quiet and come with substitute theme - greenhouse effect.

No sensible person would recomend alternative fuels instead of the fossile fuesl, if the only intention was reducing the greenhouse gases emissions... all the alternative (carbon based) fuels are more greenhouse gas intensive then their petrol alternatives. Thus this cant be the real motive.

The real motive is that our petrol based (carbon) economy has to switch into other source based economy (e.g. hydrogen based). The transition may be really drastic if you dont have alternatives ready to support this transition. Changing the economy from petrol based into another is not just question of switching the engines in the cars... First of all, when oil is scarce, you need the energy to be able to build another sources of energy.

But probably Italy is the only (European) country to have them on motorways.
A6a and A6b South of Paris in France.

Out of nowhere, after years of dormancy, the A10-south project is suddenly revived with an agreement about the project by the ministry of Infrastructure and Environment and the city of Amsterdam.

The A10 on the south side of Amsterdam will be put underground, and widened from 6 to 12 lanes. The widening will be combined with real estate development and expansion of rail services from 12 to 24 trains per hour.

The A10 will feature 2+4+4+2 lanes, 2x4 through lanes and 2x2 lanes for local traffic, all underground. The project cost € 1.4 billion, out of which the national government pays € 979 million and the city of Amsterdam € 201 million. The urban region pays € 103 million and € 75 million comes from the North Holland province. That's € 280 million per kilometer.

Amsterdam is and will be the site of mega projects. Already in progress is the € 2 billion second Coen Tunnel + A5 skyway, and commencing this year is the € 4.5 billion Schiphol - Amsterdam - Almere upgrade. The Badhoevedorp realignment of A9 is expected to start in 2013, while the A10-south project will commence in 2015.

render:
http://i.imgur.com/rXLYm.jpg

project area:
http://i.imgur.com/bhwxT.png

current situation:
http://i.imgur.com/W8cE3.jpg

Imho unneccesarily expensive.
Wouldn't it be cheaper to simply expand the motorway above ground ?

It's considerably cheaper than the north-south subway, especially compared to the amount of people who will use the facility. The A10-zuid + rail expansion project cost € 1.4 billion, but close to 400.000 people will use it everyday, compared to € 3+ billion for the subway and a usage of 150.000 people.

I don't think the project would've been possible without bringing one of the modalities underground, you can't expand the railway station + rail facilities and double the number of lanes on A10 at the same time within the existing right-of-way. And they're not going to tear down those skyscrapers.

They rail track will stay at ground level? Because originaly the road and the rail should go underground:

http://www.ftm.nl/upload/content/images/Zuidas%20tekening.jpg

Yep, the old plan had more real estate development to support the expensive investment, which is unlikely now (vacancy rate is already quite high in the area). The original plan was estimated at € 2.1 billion (but was likely much more expensive, as underestimates were quite common a few years ago).

Also note that the A10 setup is different now, the original plan called for 4x3 lanes, the current plan calls for 2+4+4+2 lanes.

You folks in the Netherlands have really interesting architecture.

In funneling down options for the € 1.2 billion Utrecht ring road widening, some more details became available. The biggest news was that the N230 widening has been downscaled from 6 to 4 lanes, with a speed limit of 80 instead of 100 km/h. It will be grade-separated. Although it will conform to congestion norms, the 70.000 - 80.000 vehicles per day leave very little room for traffic growth.

Also some more details became available about the A27 widening, which is technically very complex. The A27 is below grade, and there is a foil underneath the roadway that prevents groundwater from flooding the motorway. It is not possible to puncture or expand this soil, which eliminates the possibility of new bridges, which then leads to problems with railway bridges, the bridgehead will be replaced by a 5.5 m wide pylon with a two-lane carriageway around it. The A27 can be widened from 2x4 to 2x7 lanes that way, in a 2+5+5+2 setup.

Map of the proposed changes:
http://i.imgur.com/Q3o4x.png

Construction will commence in 2016, first on N230 and A27, and between 2020 and 2023 along A12, where the parallel lanes will be widened to 3 lanes each way (12 lanes total).

Yep, the old plan had more real estate development to support the expensive investment, which is unlikely now (vacancy rate is already quite high in the area). The original plan was estimated at € 2.1 billion (but was likely much more expensive, as underestimates were quite common a few years ago).

Also note that the A10 setup is different now, the original plan called for 4x3 lanes, the current plan calls for 2+4+4+2 lanes.

What I'm wondering is how the 2+4+4+2 setup will work. Both sides of the tunnel have big bottle neck in traffic flow. Traffic crossing lanes from local onramps to A10->A2 and A10->A4 cause traffic jams on a daily basis backing traffic up for kilometers. Just adding lanes will not make a huge difference in my opinion, only reconstruction of the KP Nieuwe Meer and KP Amstel could solve this.

Unfortunately the whole plan has a major design flaw, the parallel lanes will only have 1 through lane and 1 auxiliary lane between exits. I don't get why they are willing to spend € 1.4 billion on a plan like this. It's a freaking € 280 million per kilometer that will create a lot of problems. The Zuidas will become a huge railway yard which is suppose to be "international allure".

To illustrate what I mean some traffic flows:

East-bound:

A10-West->Local exits
A10-West->A2
A10-West->A10-South
A4->A10 South
A4->A2
A4->Local exits
Local exits->A10 South
Local exits->A2

If there were no money or available space restrictions it would be nice to have the following solutions:

Fly-over for traffic from A10-West to lane for local exits VU and RAI so traffic from A4 can drive to A10 south without obstruction.
Fly-over for traffic from onramp RAI to A10-South so all transit and local traffic can flow to A2 without obstruction.

If this is not done I don't think the whole transit - local setup and capacity increase will make much difference because the bottle necks will still cause traffic jams.

Unfortunately the whole plan has a major design flaw, the parallel lanes will only have 1 through lane and 1 auxiliary lane between exits. I don't get why they are willing to spend € 1.4 billion on a plan like this. It's a freaking € 280 million per kilometer that will create a lot of problems. The Zuidas will become a huge railway yard which is suppose to be "international allure".

That is a similar mistake to the Western part of the Eindhoven ring road that has only 2 transit lanes in each direction while 3 is necessary already.

^^
Even worse is that they removed 1 lane from N2 (within Eindhoven west ring part). So now almost every morning lots of cars staying in traffic towards south on 2 lanes instead of 3 !!
It's waste of public money!

The Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis (CPB), an independent government agency, called the A10 tunnel unprofitable in a second opinion analysis. While the widening of A10 is economically profitable, doing it underground is not, mainly because the benefits were overstated, specifically the € 360 million value of the space freed up by the undergrond A10. The CPB puts the benefit at € 110 million, making the project economically unprofitable. It didn't go into specifics about the road configuration, which was critized yesterday.

The usefulness of the A10 widening was not questioned, especially the local-express setup was seen as useful, because it would decongest two motorway interchanges compared to a regular widening to 2x6 lanes.

The negative second opinion of the CPB does not mean the project is dead, but it may give way to second thoughts about the project. When the A10 will be put underground, it will be replaced by a massive rail yard, pretty much defeating its purpose of bringing A10 underground. The original plans called for an all-underground project, but were found far too expensive and financially risky as large amounts of real estate development are necessary to support that project, which is very unlikely today given the low demand and vacancy. The project area is surrounded with low-density sport facilities, which would be far cheaper to develop than on top of the infrastructure corridor, if demand really was to be high, which it is not.

Is it true that the the A10 tunnel would frustrate the potential Nord-Zuidlijn extention to Amstelveen?

Is it true that the the A10 tunnel would frustrate the potential Nord-Zuidlijn extention to Amstelveen?

Absolutely not because it will need a tunnel past the Zuidas near Amsterdam Zuid Station regardless of whether it gets extended to Schiphol (and before that Amstelveen).

Absolutely not because it will need a tunnel past the Zuidas near Amsterdam Zuid Station regardless of whether it gets extended to Schiphol (and before that Amstelveen).

That's not entirely true, its being said now that moving the A10 underground will mean the end for the tram/subway turn to Amstelveen as there's no room anymore for the turn. Terrible decision if you ask me.

Great!! black ice on Dutch motorway again!!
The motorway surface is extremly slippery with melting/freezing water!
I stopped the car on A7 on hard shoulder to check is it so slippery cause my track control system was switching on everytime i was just touching my brakes... When I went out from car I couldn't stay on asphalt! Like on icerink! Of course a lot of drivers were driving 120 km/h passing me and next flying away from lanes when they decided to slow down!

2h55min took me drive from Emmeloord to Almere! And get to changed destination 3 hrs later then planned...

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss43/mappero/new-3.jpg

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss43/mappero/new-2.jpg

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss43/mappero/new-1.jpg

QpKXoyMH3o4
Movie future situation at the Zuidas. Well not entirely at the future, because before or during this situation they are going to look at the train and metro with 3 options:
-All underground (+700.000m2 additional real estate)
-Trains underground, metro above (+600.000m2 additional real estate)
-Above ground (+350.000m2 additional real estate)

They are leaving future options open. Even concerning the North/Southline. With trains underground, the North/Southline could be expanded to Amstelveen above ground.

Isn't it the porous asphalt that causes the roads to be that slippery?

Isn't it the porous asphalt that causes the roads to be that slippery?

No.

Actually more granulated pavement is better to break or avoid large Ijs sheets.

No.

Actually more granulated pavement is better to break or avoid large Ijs sheets.

I think draining asphalt get damaged fast in cold weathers because water inside holes freeze and increase its volume breaking the asphalt.

Yep, especially the freeze and thaw cycle. Rijkswaterstaat has stated that there has been little damage to road pavement this last two weeks, where temperatures remained below zero for a long time. The winters of 2010 and 2011 were quite different with loads of pavement damage.

While porous asphalt is a bit more susceptible, it can happen with regular dense asphalt as well, if moist between the pavement layers freeze and expand. Concrete doesn't appear to have this problem, but the poor drainage capabilities of dense pavement can cause rather large icy patches.

I think draining asphalt get damaged fast in cold weathers because water inside holes freeze and increase its volume breaking the asphalt.

I know, we can barely get in our shed because the ground has come up and the door can only go like 15 cms open :lol:

Dutch highways have one of modern traffic system in the world for me :)
Looks great everything :)

I went to an open day of the A4 motorway in the city of Leiden today.

The current 4-lane motorway will be replaced by a 6-lane motorway below grade. A narrow bridge will be replaced by a wide aquaduct. The current roadways are 8.50 meters wide. The future roadways are 27.50 meters wide, allowing 2x6 lanes with shoulders.

current:
http://i.imgur.com/Sl62u.jpg

future:

Note, this is one of two aquaducts, this one will open to six-lane traffic in a few weeks, after which an identical aquaduct will be constructed next to it. This means the A4 will be over 3 times wider than it is today.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7187/6897227711_0e4aee2f1d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6897227711/)
A4-1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6897227711/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7181/6897227923_d214bb4570_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6897227923/)
A4-2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6897227923/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7067/6897228115_05193e83fd_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6897228115/)
A4-3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6897228115/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7203/6897228333_f14c5249a4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6897228333/)
A4-4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6897228333/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

I recorded another A4 video.

3Jd_IM08hm0

Some notes;

* New Ringvaart Aquaduct with cool blue lighting.
* Especially the first half until the 10-lane section is subsided, you almost become airborne at some overpasses.
* the left lane on the 10-lane section is often closed during low traffic periods
* massive traffic jam I should have escaped, but the lane closure message just disappeared from the VMS so I thought the delay would be minimal. It turned out to be 25 minutes for 1 kilometer.

And immediately another video

I recorded the A27 between interchanges Hooipolder and Everdingen. I've got 3 more videos coming up, so stay tuned :)

MsAjaUYEt0g

Provinsje Fryslân:

0EN4d6J_7eQ

Map: http://binged.it/ylTccr

I´ve got 3 more videos:


A2-A10 Utrecht - Amsterdam, driving over the Dutch superhighway:
zbqbHzmCob0

A8-A7 Amsterdam - Den Oever (last exit before enclosure dike)
_EZQkId0kuc

N99 Den Oever - Den Helder
V0BBzccfE9A

I´ve got 3 more videos:


A2-A10 Utrecht - Amsterdam, driving over the Dutch superhighway:
zbqbHzmCob0


Re: Your question:
I can drive 225 km/h there, perfect road for maxing out my car, especially at night.
Of course the NIMBY whingers and eco morons/retards caused the speed limit to be 100km/h, not that it matters much. Simply keep your eyes on the side for highway robbers (with multinova's or gatsometers), check flitsservice.nl, and cruise at 140 kph ( muldergrens). Anyone with trained eyes can see them a mile off.

Simply keep your eyes on the side for highway robbers (with multinova's or gatsometers), check flitsservice.nl, and cruise at 140 kph ( muldergrens). Anyone with trained eyes can see them a mile off.

Watch out, this year there will be section control here (Maarssen - Breukelen and Vinkeveen - Abcoude (Don't pin me down on those locations, I'm not 100% sure about the exact locations!)) Good luck speeding without getting a ticket then... :|

Watch out, this year there will be section control here (Maarssen - Breukelen and Vinkeveen - Abcoude (Don't pin me down on those locations, I'm not 100% sure about the exact locations!)) Good luck speeding without getting a ticket then... :|

I know, I hope they will be destroyed/vandalised :).

Luckily I don't have to drive the A2 at all, Live near Rotterdam and go to A'dam with the A13/A4.

There are always illegal ways too :
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/premium-car-license-plate-automatic-frame-shutter-with-remote-control-set-black-42752
Just joking. However I really hope those things will be destroyed regularly, I don't care it costs tax money to fix, the government must get the message that such things cannot be tolerated by motorists, we are already being ripped off compared to countries around us.

I mean come on, in Germany 10kph to fast on the autobahn costs a tenner.

The government should focus on INCREASING the average speed of commuters, not decreasing. I remember the good old days of a narrow 2x3 motorway between A'dam and Utrecht at night and cruising 130-140 and being passed constantly. (I'm mainly a night driver and regularly do Capelle ad IJssel-Warsaw so have a special hate reserved for (Dutch) speed limits ). During busy hours they make sense in places ( not the A2 though), but at 3am, bugger off with your 80/100 km/h zones.

^^ The speed limits are mostly due to environmental (bogus) concern than safety when the highways are empty. But they are increasing the limit to 130 in many sectors anyway.

I don't think vandalism of speed cameras is the right way to protest it.

^^ The speed limits are mostly due to environmental (bogus) concern than safety when the highways are empty.
Just as it says in my video, the police (our good 'friend' Koos Spee) has actually admitted that the controls on the wide A2 are just to cash in :ohno::bash:

^^ The speed limits are mostly due to environmental (bogus) concern than safety when the highways are empty. But they are increasing the limit to 130 in many sectors anyway.

I don't think vandalism of speed cameras is the right way to protest it.

What do you suggest then ? Personally I won't ever do any silly things like that, but I can't deny having an enormous grin on my face when I see a burned or otherwise disabled or destroyed speed camera :). Let's just say that if I'd see someone do something to it I wouldn't have seen anything :).

Me neither. I'm a bit uptight about speeding in that I think people doing more than 50 in a built-up area should be shot in the face with a bazooka (especially near schools) but even I deeply dislike speed cameras.

A1 Amsterdam - Eemnes

I made a video last weekend of the A1. It's recorded on a Saturday around 5 pm. Some shoulder running can be observed in this video.

S4tp1nGP0Xg

^^ Neat video, Chris.
The motorway seems very tormented and complicated, with all these sudden changes between 2-3-4 lanes. Is this the norm for the Netherlands?

^^ Neat video, Chris.
The motorway seems very tormented and complicated, with all these sudden changes between 2-3-4 lanes. Is this the norm for the Netherlands?
Aye, around Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Utrecht and The Hague it is more or less like this. In the ''rural'' areas it's a bit simpler/easier.

However, I am of the opinion drivers who find it all to ''complicated'' do not belong on the road here :).

Unfortunately most previous road upgrades were very segmented, they didn't use the corridor-approach as much as they do today, so you indeed get a lot of lane changes. This section in particular is somewhat messy due to the reversible lanes in the median (which were closed in the direction I drove to).

Especially the short section with the two bridges carries a lot of traffic, out of the 200,000 vehicles on that section, only about 110,000 continue east of there, Almere is a major suburb with 180,000 inhabitants along A6.

As I noted in the video, this section will be upgraded. The interchanges will be realigned and the road will be widened to 2x5 lanes, 2 reversible lanes and up to 20 - 22 lanes at interchange approaches (most of the section will actually feature 2x6 lanes plus 2 reversibles). Construction on that particular section will begin next year.

Aye, around Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Utrecht and The Hague it is more or less like this. Outside the big cities it's a bit simpler/easier.

However, I am of the opinion drivers who find it all to ''complicated'' do not belong on the road here :).

Thanks for welcoming me so warmly :D I used "complicated" for lack of a better translation. I could have written "complex", "non-linear", "baroque", but it's just a part of what I mean.

On this short 25 kilometer section there are 10 exits, 4 motorway interchanges and 2 rest areas. And it isn't even considered to be particularly urban. That means 16 exit and 16 entrance points along this 25 km.

Thanks for welcoming me so warmly :D I used "complicated" for lack of a better translation. I could have written "complex", "non-linear", "baroque", but it's just a part of what I mean.

What I meant is that people often fail with shoulder running, and the most right lane on the hard shoulder, is sometimes empty and people hog the middle and left lanes. They should all be heavily fined imho.

What I meant is that people often fail with shoulder running, and the most right lane on the hard shoulder, is sometimes empty and people hog the middle and left lanes. They should all be heavily fined imho.

Quite express claims for someone who would like to see all speed controles burned out...

I personally find the shoulders running not so handy. I would prefer no shoulders instead. During the last trip to Utrecht and Muiden I did not use the shoulder on (A1 or A27 I think) and neither did 80 % of the traffic. The full stripes make the shoulder running in fact rather dangerous and not very transparent to use. I would prefer no shoulder at all to the shoulder running arrangement.

People should get used to it really fast. It's not an optimal solution but along routes like the A1 through het Gooi there's not much else than can be done.

People should get used to it really fast. It's not an optimal solution but along routes like the A1 through het Gooi there's not much else than can be done.

As I said, they culd have changed the shoulder into another lane... without keeping any shoulder. In case of need you could allways close the lane, with the same boards you now open the shoulder. Much more elegant solution in my eyes.

Using the shoulder is not optional, it is obligatory if shoulder running is into operation. You could get an € 100 fine for not keeping right. It's not a truck lane.

@Koesj A tunnel, there are plans for that, but it's extremely expensive.

The Netherlands is one of the few countries that has a lot of bridges that can open for ships in its highwaysystem.
A short list of bridges that can open for boats:
A1: Vechtbrug
N3: Merwedebrug; Wantijbrug
A4: Brug over de Oude Rijn
A6: Ketelbrug; Scharsterrijnbrug
A7: Brug over Westerwoldsche Aa (Bad Nieuweschans); Kruiswaterbrug(Bolsward), Stevinsluizen, Lorentzsluizen
N7: Julianabrug; Euvelgunnerbrug-2
A8: Coenbrug
A9: Zijkanaal C; Ringvaartbrug
A10: Schinkelbrug
A15: Botlekbrug (alternatief tunnel)
N15: Suurhoffbrug en Calandbrug.
A16: v Brienenoordbrug
A20: Giessenbrug
A27: Merwedebrug;
A29: Haringvlietbrug; Volkerakbrug
A44: Ringvaart ; Oude Rijn (Leiden)

When one of the bridges is defect it immediately causes chaos, especially if it's in de Randstad or kinda near every town with more then 50.000 inhabitants. The underlined bridge refused to work today. This is the result:

1eOmv-XazyM

@Koesj A tunnel, there are plans for that, but it's extremely expensive.

Yeah that's what I meant, there's no way it's going to be on the legislative agenda inside a decade after they just got done with the shoulder running thing.

There are no plans for any tunnel there. It's just proposed by a few construction companies, nothing more. There is no money reserved for that in the MIRT long-term construction programme, it's not on the political agenda and there's not even a preliminary study for it.

There's basically nothing except for some work-hungry construction companies and a bunch of road enthusiasts.

Using the shoulder is not optional, it is obligatory if shoulder running is into operation. You could get an € 100 fine for not keeping right. It's not a truck lane.

I keep to the right most of the time. With a shoulder running and many exits it is really uncertain whether the section you are coming to is open or not and for a driver that drives not in the area every day it is rather confusing, thus increasing the danger.

Situations like at 3,57 min in your video clearly show where is the problem with this concept. The road markings direct you from the road, and to the Bussum, whereas a driver that knows the road by head like you just drives on, because of shoulder running. If the markings on the road were adjusted it would be much more clearer and safer situation.

E.g. from the 4 min till 4,24 min there is no reason why the shoulder line should be full and not dashed, that is having another line instead of a shoulder.

Above that. I assume that every intersection cancels all the previous markings, thus at 4,30 you are not in a clear situation. Is there still shoulder running or not? Then again from 4,40 there is no reason why there should not be dashed line. The less markings changes on the road, the less information has the driver work with, the safer the road.

Constant changes from dashed into full line are much stronger impulse then the board display once in a few hundred meters. The brain has to work with much more information and makes much more decissions than if there is just dashed line and you know that you can use the lane. If the lane would be closed by the board display, you just have to check one information.

Quite express claims for someone who would like to see all speed controles burned out...

I personally find the shoulders running not so handy. I would prefer no shoulders instead. During the last trip to Utrecht and Muiden I did not use the shoulder on (A1 or A27 I think) and neither did 80 % of the traffic. The full stripes make the shoulder running in fact rather dangerous and not very transparent to use. I would prefer no shoulder at all to the shoulder running arrangement.

Anything that reduces or hinders average travelling speed yeah. Our mobility has been reduced enough because of ''duurzaam veilig'', NIMBY whingers, eco morons, and finally a government who sees the motorist as a cash cow.
The infrastructure must grow with the demand.

I agree the shoulder running work at the Bussum / Naarden exit is a bit sloppy. Normally it works like two exit lanes, now it's a through lane and a taper. It's not standard approach there.

The road markings of shoulder running have been subject to much debate, many people think they are unclear, and whether it's allowed to cross the solid line (answer: yes). I also think the signs are not activating enough. In Germany the signs say "drive on shoulder", in the Netherlands they say "shoulder open".

This is how it usually looks:
tAJAoeB2tpc
A9 southbound @ Akersloot

amazing :)

N50 Ramspol Bridge

location @ Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.61228,5.8449&spn=0.016,0.052314&t=h&z=15)

The deteriorated Ramspol Bridge is currently being replaced by a new 4-lane expressway bridge. It spans the Ramsdiep, the connection between the lakes Ketelmeer and Zwartemeer, it also connects Flevoland and Overijssel provinces.

The current bridge dates from 1948 and opens very frequently, especially during the summer. The clearance of this bridge is only 5.3 meters. The new bridge will have 4 lanes and a clearance of 14 meters, so it only has to open infrequently.

The works are part of a project conversing N50 in Flevoland into a 2x2 expressway with a 100 km/h speed limit. The construction time of the new bridge is approximately 24 months.

The 1948 bridge:
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4009/4692720013_8f17113338_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/4692720013/)
N50-Ramspol-12-06-2010-8 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/4692720013/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

Photos I took this morning:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7051/6785009464_59c4539f35_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6785009464/)
N50-26-02-2012-1 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6785009464/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7041/6785009536_305c63259f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6785009536/)
N50-26-02-2012-2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6785009536/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7182/6931128087_3cd16db227_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6931128087/)
N50-26-02-2012-8 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6931128087/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7057/6785009896_fb46e5150e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6785009896/)
N50-26-02-2012-9 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6785009896/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7180/6785010050_8d6e2a90e3_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6785010050/)
N50-26-02-2012-12 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6785010050/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7039/6931128373_1c2c1406e4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6931128373/)
N50-26-02-2012-14 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6931128373/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

A4 Halsteren - Dinteloord Update

Click here for all the pics including locations on GMaps and additional info in Dutch. (https://picasaweb.google.com/116367240884216710819/A4HalsterenDinteloordFotoUpdatesVerzameld#5713471684789790418)

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-NPDJoKQHdRg/T0pUc_cS3pI/AAAAAAAAEjw/MCCRnsXJrys/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520026.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q8QshWi1zhs/T0pUOd4l5tI/AAAAAAAAEhA/7ToKv89gXJk/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520001.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EX_icH_OUNo/T0pUSxcechI/AAAAAAAAEiI/UUJAzhZOuQk/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520010.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1Qkc_JvZVHk/T0pUTBSji8I/AAAAAAAAEiA/FIViVuBgyS8/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520011.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-CpmrmmufdWw/T0pUYGjhdZI/AAAAAAAAEi8/XqAXw-CauW4/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520020.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UNd__e--y1I/T0pUaIOKKeI/AAAAAAAAEjY/wWko6YHft-A/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520021.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QPw9HHhYMng/T0pUbfoAqFI/AAAAAAAAEjs/pAz5YKSZQx0/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520024.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8ix2gRK9wH8/T0pUfq_JKlI/AAAAAAAAEqo/vANn7p4XaFo/s512/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520032.JPG

Fun on the A4 U/C :D
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-YEYuSj5oGFU/T0pUgt0UNxI/AAAAAAAAEks/kRBtBxtHre0/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520034.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mM7s1N2czhQ/T0pUms7eQzI/AAAAAAAAEl0/BsAwpSiDpm0/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520043.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lsCfSyMhFXI/T0pUsaEsZBI/AAAAAAAAEmY/ydwF6yiGW5U/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520048.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OnoJeEEDCo8/T0pUxuj8sGI/AAAAAAAAEnY/6wqBU-Wg7-0/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520055.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bUVjBaCn-9E/T0pUyGqTw3I/AAAAAAAAEng/d99SkhRXxZY/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520057.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4j7rPcI_W7g/T0pU12RyqGI/AAAAAAAAEoI/QdO06IUJ6i0/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520063.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WoCjgHcfdAI/T0pU7laqsKI/AAAAAAAAEpQ/A-kDDLmAGrw/s800/A4%2520Halsteren%2520-%2520Klutsdorp%252026%2520feb%2520068.JPG

Feel free to ask questions :)

Using the shoulder is not optional, it is obligatory if shoulder running is into operation. You could get an € 100 fine for not keeping right. It's not a truck lane.

So, in the Netherlands you don't have an option of just staying in the middle lane on a 3-lane road?

If I were to drive on that highway from your video (with folks driving on the shoulder) I would have no clue that it's legal. I did notice green arrows signalling that shoulder is open, but that solid line would probably still make me stay in the middle lane just in case.

So, in the Netherlands you don't have an option of just staying in the middle lane on a 3-lane road?
No, you must keep as right as possible at all times.

Can anybody show video with plus lane running? :master:

Can anybody show video with plus lane running? :master:

Strangely I have only 1 video with that, my first road movie :banana:
0W9_emggISQ

NOTE: my dad doesn't like shoulder running ;)

Agnette asked for plus lanes, not shoulder running.

Plus lanes start just after 1 minute:
kskJSMWp4JM

Agnette asked for plus lanes, not shoulder running.

Plus lanes start just after 1 minute:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kskJSMWp4JM">YouTube Link</a>

What's the purpose of a "plus" lane? Or is it just a regular lane that is more narrow?

It was used as a loophole in the law a while back, when it was considerably easier to construct a new lane, but use it as shoulder running (i.e. not a permanent lane).

A plus lane is a physical widening of the roadway, as opposed to regular shoulder running on the right. As far as I know the Netherlands is the only country in the world with this type of lane, and let's hope it stays that way.

So, in the Netherlands you don't have an option of just staying in the middle lane on a 3-lane road?

If I were to drive on that highway from your video (with folks driving on the shoulder) I would have no clue that it's legal. I did notice green arrows signalling that shoulder is open, but that solid line would probably still make me stay in the middle lane just in case.

All countries in Europe have a keep right unless overtaking policy. This includes shoulder running. Unfortunatley a lot of people in a lot of countries are too lazy to stick to that rule. The Netherlands used to have the worst discipline, but thanks to stricter enforcement, they are now one of the best. Germany used to be the best, but more and more are now lacking this discipline, and shoulder running on the A99 at Munich seems to be a challenge for a lot of people. Countries like Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Switzerland, UK and Czech Republic have no lane discipline whatsoever, and are quite happy hogging overtaking lanes, forcing traffic to stack up behind them. The French of all people are rather disciplined apart from the metropolitan areas of Lille and Paris. Austria is getting better, as the national Automobile Associating are encouraging people to keep right, but Austrians on the A1 between Salzburg and Vienna are badly influenced by Eastern European drivers who have no knowledge on motorway driving. I'd mention Belgium, but it would only create a steer.

^^ You forgot Italy, which is one of the worst. In a three-lane autostrada, the right one is always empty.

^^ You forgot Italy, which is one of the worst. In a three-lane autostrada, the right one is always empty.

True. Although in the last few years, I've seen more and more people giving it a careful try, driving on the inside lane on the A4 near where you live. At nightime only though. Between Milan and Turin, where the volume of traffic isn't as high as east of Milan, I do get to see the odd Fiat Panta puffing on the inside lane.

^^ Yeah, that's probably the exception confirming the rule. Given the high volume of traffic between Milan and Brescia, if people used only center and left lane those two would be slower thant the right one, so people tend to occupy all three. On other three-lane motorways, though, it's a different story.

Freight traffic between Milan and Verona is exceptionally high, and for long stretches they occupy lane 1 and 2. Whenever I'm driving on that road, I usually have no option then to stick with lane 2 and 3, even though I'm a strong believer in the keep right unless overtaking rule. But I'm either overtaking, or I'm pulling my hair out, because that 80 km/h car in the middle lane won't budge, and I can't move to the left, because it's occupied by angry Mercedes, Alfa and Audi drivers going bumber to bumber at 180 km/h.

Freight traffic between Milan and Verona is exceptionally high, and for long stretches they occupy lane 1 and 2.

You're right, but bad lane behavior happens also on Sundays when freight traffic is virtually nil.

We're OT, back to the LowLands now :) I'm curious about new Ramspol bridge: is it going to be a bascule bridge? Isn't that a little dangerous on a 2x2 expressway?

The busiest motorway section in the Netherlands has a bascule bridge :)

As a matter of fact there quite a number of bascule bridges in the Netherlands, though some will be replaced by aquaducts.

I don't think a section with a bascule bridge could ever be classified as "motorway" in Italy... I never saw a bascule bridge in my life, anyway...

This is what a 12-lane bridge opening looks like :)

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/53/114228345_67d940feee_z.jpg

260.000 vehicles per day. It opens only once a day on average, around midnight.

I don't think a section with a bascule bridge could ever be classified as "motorway" in Italy... I never saw a bascule bridge in my life, anyway...

Well we can't build a high bridge from hill to hill or from mountain to mountain. Not only do we not have bumps in the landscape we can use, the rivers usually flow at a higher altitude than the land itself. That means you have to go up to the top of the levee first.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Rivierbedding.gif

It's a bit like high jumping at the Olympics... without the pole.

So if we need to cross a busy shipping river, a bascule bridge is a sensible way of doing it.

Unless the motorway is really extremely busy, then a tunnel of some sort might be worth the investment. But tunnels are notoriously hard to dig in swampy grounds.

Most bascule bridges in Dutch motorways date back to the 1960's. For example the bridges on the A6, A9, A10, A16 we're all built in the 1960's or early 1970's. Most later 1970's bridges did not feature bascule bridges. It's noteworthy that most bascule bridges are not across major rivers, but across canals. The only exceptions to this rule are the A16 Van Brienenoordbrug and the A27 Merwedebrug.

The Van Brienenoordbrug was duplicated in 1990. They did not choose a higher bridge, but rather added an identical bridge next to it.

The Netherlands also has many river tunnels, and they are cost-effective (the regular immersion-method). The first such motorway tunnel was the Velser Tunnel in 1957 (A22, near Haarlem), but the downside of that tunnel is that the North Sea Canal cannot be deepened anymore because of the tunnel.

There are currently a number of major river crossings planned or under construction;

* A10 Second Coen Tunnel, U/C, completion in 2012
* A15 Rhine River Bridge: planned, completion around 2018
* A24 Blankenburg Tunnel: planned, completion around 2018 - 2020
* A50 Second Ewijk Waal Bridge: U/C, completion in 2014
* N50 Ramspol Bridge, U/C completion in 2013
* N62 Sluiskil Tunnel, U/C completion in 2015 (first bored river/canal tunnel)

Furthermore two bascule bridges are currently being replaced by aquaducts (a Dutch aquaduct is a road or rail tunnel underneath a waterway, usually shorter than 250 m)

* A1 Aquaduct Muiden
* A4 Oude Rijn Aquaduct

Maybe one day the A9 bascule bridge near Haarlem will be replaced by an aquaduct as well, but this is unlikely before 2020 as shoulder running has just been added.

There are also a number of land tunnels (not crossing any major waterways) under construction and planned. These tunnels are built to reduce impact on the urban environment.

I don't think a section with a bascule bridge could ever be classified as "motorway" in Italy... I never saw a bascule bridge in my life, anyway...

There are some on local roads in Italy. I know one on Lemene river in Concordia Sagittaria (VE) and another on the harbour of Marano Lagunare (UD). But having them on motorways is crazy, i would never imagine that such things exist.

Well we can't build a high bridge from hill to hill or from mountain to mountain. Not only do we not have bumps in the landscape we can use, the rivers usually flow at a higher altitude than the land itself. That means you have to go up to the top of the levee first.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/Rivierbedding.gif

It's a bit like high jumping at the Olympics... without the pole.

So if we need to cross a busy shipping river, a bascule bridge is a sensible way of doing it.

Unless the motorway is really extremely busy, then a tunnel of some sort might be worth the investment. But tunnels are notoriously hard to dig in swampy grounds.

I know what a bascule bridge is. It's just that I never saw one in real life.

You can see the bascule chamber on this N50 Ramspol Bridge photo. The counterweight for the bridge moves inside the chamber if the bridge has to open. It's the largest object of this bridge, apart from the bridge deck itself.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7039/6931128373_1c2c1406e4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6931128373/)
N50-26-02-2012-14 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriszwolle/6931128373/) by Chriszwolle (http://www.flickr.com/people/chriszwolle/), on Flickr

Here's another example of a bascule bridge, on the A10 Ring Road of Amsterdam. As most shipping on such waterways are yachts with masts, you have to construct quite a significant bridge there. The impact of such a bridge in an urban environment is considered too prohibitive. In this case it's next to a motorway interchange, which means it's nearly impossible to construct a high bridge or tunnel without exceptional cost.

This section carries approximately 200.000 vehicles per day. I don't know how often this bridge actually opens for boats, but I don't think it's very often.

http://i.imgur.com/gPwW8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3YFYo.jpg

Can I ask you gentlemen what do you make from this video?

http://video.repubblica.it/mondo/olanda-cosi-sono-nate-le-ciclabili/89068?video=&ref=HREC2-1

It's hosted on Italian newspaper "La Repubblica" but it's in English. It's about bicycle vs. car in the Netherlands.

I think it's a bit too focused on a few locations. It's like those American tourists thinking nobody in the Netherlands drive because they think central Amsterdam is the same as the entire country.

Not really that much has changed. It's easy to achieve large percentages when the numbers are relatively insignificant. It should also be noted that historic city centers do not attract as much traffic as they used to in the 1960's, many functions like retail and jobs have relocated to locations better accessible by cars, retail mostly in subcenters in residential neighborhoods, and jobs along motorway locations. Nearly all major office centers in the Netherlands are outside the historic city core, Den Haag and Rotterdam being an exception.

The key to bicycle success is planning ahead. If you have to fit separate bicycle lanes in an existing road network, it won't work. It only worked in the 1970's because roads were much wider back then than nowadays. You can't fit a 3 meter bicycle path by taking away 3 meters from a 7 meter wide road. Every new urban development in the Netherlands from the 1960's on was built with cycling in mind. Separation of cyclists from motor vehicle traffic is the key to traffic safety, although it may lead to some socially unsafe situations in poorly designed bicycle/pedestrian tunnels, though such things can be addressed adequately by a proper design.

A lot of urbanites on Skyscrapercity think about separation of slow and fast traffic as a bad thing, but not all separation of slow and fast traffic equals poorly lit, graffiti'ed and inhabited by homeless tunnels. They can also look like this:
http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4054/4206271306_28b34bd51b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fietsberaad/4206271306/)
Fietstunnel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/fietsberaad/4206271306/) by Fietsberaad (http://www.flickr.com/people/fietsberaad/), on Flickr

It's also noteworthy about traffic safety that the "mass reduces risk" theory applies here. The absolute number of bicycle fatalities in the Netherlands remain relatively high, at 25% of all traffic fatalities. In 2010 162 fatalaties on a total of 640, although the 2010 numbers have been critized for being underreported.

Out of 162 bicycle fatalaties, 93 of them were people aged 65+. Only 9 of them were children below the age of 15. The chances of getting killed while cycling is still 6 times higher than by car, though not as bad as motorcyclists (35 times).


Another interesting point in the Netherlands is the mobility of young people (age 12 - 20), which is mainly attributed to the bicycle. This makes the Netherlands hard to compare to other countries, for instance we don't have a school bus system like some other countries because school children and students cycle, sometimes up to 20 kilometers one way.

Leisure cycling in the Netherlands is also much higher than in other countries, mainly due to our very well-developed bicycling infrastructure. You rarely have to cycle on roads where the speed limit is higher than 50 km/h, even in rural areas there are usually bicycle paths available, as opposed to the other country with a great bicycle imago, Denmark.

I think cycling is also the main competitor for city buses. For distances up to 5 or 6 kilometers, it's often faster to cycle than to use the bus, even if you're traveling along the same route. Transportation-wise, the bicycle is like a slower version of the car; ultimate freedom when it comes to options, travel times and availability.

I think cycling is also the main competitor for city buses. For distances up to 5 or 6 kilometers, it's often faster to cycle than to use the bus, even if you're traveling along the same route. Transportation-wise, the bicycle is like a slower version of the car; ultimate freedom when it comes to options, travel times and availability.

If you are talking just about the Netherlands, I agree. In Italy bicycles are no competitors to buses: too many hilly cities :)

EDIT: this was a response to the video and Chris' first response. You guys are quick!

I think things have changed considerably. Especially in older parts of cities, and really everywhere in The Netherlands (not just a few places): From all cities and towns in NL you can find a picture from the '60s of the central square in use as a car park, and almost all of them are pedestrianized now.

The 'conflict' is/was only in places where space is limited (roughly anything built before 1900). In these areas over the last 40 years space for cars has slowly been replaced with space for bikes and pedestrians. In most places you can still go by car, but the space for the roadway is usually less wide.

The video is right that the '70s were a turning point in that respect.

An inner city street in NL:
- Before the 70s: Space for cars minus the space needed for sidewalks/pedestrians and an occasional bike lane.
- After the 70s: space needed for cars (usually one narrow lane) + a bike lane (if there is enough space) + the rest is for pedestrians.

The effects have not stopped. Some statistics from Amsterdam:

From 1991 - 2011:
- Number of cars crossing the Singelgracht (entering the center of Amsterdam) decreased by 30%.
- Number of bicycles crossing the Singelgracht increased by 100% (doubled).

It also shows a different development as Chris points out (fewer office locations in the city center), but the number of visitors to the center has increased (not decreased as Chris suggests).

Newer areas don't really have this 'fight for space', because bicycle infrastructure has been an integral part of the design of public space since the '70s.

Here's an example of a random place in The Netherlands. It is in Sneek, a small town in the North:
1895:
http://f.cl.ly/items/311V2F0r41112p0a1m25/397-Schaapmarktplein.jpg

1969:
http://www.sneekernieuwsblad.nl/files/2011/11/366-Schaapmarktplein-522x391.jpg

Current (Streetview (http://g.co/maps/w2z83)) (on a monday morning when the shops are closed...):
http://f.cl.ly/items/1m1w050A0S3N3Q1o303o/Schermafbeelding%202012-02-27%20om%2015.09.28.png

The video is relevant because most foreigners think that in NL we went from the 1895 situation to the 2012 situation, but they forget that we had the 1969 situation. In the US many places are still like the 1969 situation. I think seeing that it was like this in The Netherlands can help people understand that bike culture is something that can happen in other places too, as long as people want it.

It may also be noteworthy that the reduction of street parking was not necessarily a reduction of parking capacity, they have mostly moved underground. Numerous parking garages have been constructed and are under construction nowadays. The public space has not pushed the cars outside the city centers, they moved underground on the edges of the city center, or moved to newer parts of the city.

Many Dutch cities were relatively small until the 1950's, which means the city centers were the only place for significant retail. Nowadays every residential neighborhood of 10.000 - 20.000 inhabitants has their own little shopping center which are reasonably accessible by car, either with parking garages (newer shopping centers) or open air parking (1970's/80's shopping centers). You don't need to go into the city center anymore for daily errands. The only thing that never materialized in the Netherlands were big-box shopping malls like you see in Scandinavia, France or Eastern Europe. But that also has to do with population density and availability of retail, for instance in most Dutch cities there is always one or two major supermarkets within a 1 - 2 km range in a residential area. The concept of a "super-regional mall" does not really exist in the Netherlands because everything's nearby. Even in rural areas you don't often have to travel more than 10 -15 km to get to a larger supermarket.

That V&D store in the Sneek picture for example would have a parking garage nearby nowadays. Public space is too nice to turn into open air parking lots, but it doesn't mean you can't get in those areas by car at all anymore.

The video is relevant because most foreigners think that in NL we went from the 1895 situation to the 2012 situation, but they forget that we had the 1969 situation. In the US many places are still like the 1969 situation. I think seeing that it was like this in The Netherlands can help people understand that bike culture is something that can happen in other places too, as long as people want it.

Terrain and weather, themselves, places a major block on any intention of increasing bike usage in many cities.

That is surely the case of Italy, where the flat cities (Milano, Torino, Bologna -part of) suffer from immense heat during summer and harsher winters than NL, and almost all major city not on the Pianura Padana (that flat, triangle-shaped area bisected by the Po River) has significant hills that make biking uncomfortable.

Many Italian city streets don't even have a sidewalk wider than 1m - if one at all. Moreover, seismic issues make underground parking a bit more challenging.

So I don't think it would be ever possble to export the Dutch model to Italy. Or for US, where many wannabes and apologists-activists try to pretend Europe is more (stereotypical) "European" than it actually is.

I doubt it would be even safe in terms of health to cycle 30km a day in places like Houston, Phoenix, Cleveland, Los Angeles, Miami, Denver. It is just too hot, too cold or too humid most of the year. And distances are WAY longer.

As Chris said, the main competitor to bikes in Netherlands are city buses. Many medium-sized Dutch cities have woefully lousy intra-city urban bus networks. Even if most areas are indeed covered, routes are circuitous and almost always terminate at a train station. Here in my city the bus network is so bad that they have a map on the train station suggesting people walk instead of take a bus for distances up to 15 minutes walking fast from the station!

Other thing to be noted is that NEtherlands is very poli-centric. Long commutes are not uncommon and for those bikes are useless.

===============

The video is pure garbage anyway, from a factual basis analysis. It starts painting auto traffic as necessarily bad, it ignores that rates of deaths on traffic plummeted throughout the developed World from the 1970s onwards, from US to France to Australia, and pays homage to hippies and other distasteful people who lives out of the excessive welfare policies of 1970s that plagued Western Europe at the time. I can't have any respect for a documentary that puts vandals (like people trashing street signs and painting bike lanes themselves) in a good light.

Did you just say "factual basis analysis" and "hippies and other distasteful people who lives out of the excessive welfare policies of 1970s" in the same paragraph?

The 'Dutch model' as far as I'm concerned is having transport options, and coming up with pragmatic solutions to organizing public space, trying to give all road users some space.

Your argument sums up what is wrong with this discussion in most places: far too polarized.
Cyclists are characterized as lefty hippies and you assume a lot about their intentions. Cyclist advocates on the other hand are usually too idealistic and 'victimy'.
It's not the cold war, it's just about sharing public space.

No-one is forcing anybody to ride 30km commutes.
No-one is saying these things are universally applicable to all places in the world.
No-one is saying it is a solution to commute traffic problems.

Also, Dutch climate and terrain are not unique. It gets hot here sometimes. Or really cold. Or snowy. And it rains all the time. Still many people choose to cycle.

What the video is saying is that our cycling infrastructure did not come naturally, but has its origin in a grassroots movement by regular people.

@ suburbanist: I don't understand how you always promote an individual's free choice, but only if he chooses to drive a car to a home in the suburbs.

school children and students cycle, sometimes up to 20 kilometers one way.

Sorry, but this seems very unlikely to me. Children and students leaving at 7 a.m. in the morning and returning home at 3 p.m. because they cycle 40km every day even with rain, snow, cold even if there PT avaliable? Maybe within 5km but 20 seems exagerate. And are parents happy to leave their 10 yo children to cycle alone from city to city?

Clubs like Fietsberaad are pretty radical though. Replace the word "bicycle" by "car" in their speeches and advocacy and they look like total idiots.

Denmark is also known as a "bicycle country" though I found it hardly a comparison to the Netherlands. Their cities have reasonably good bicycle infrastructure by Dutch standards but it's not nearly as good in the countryside. Besides that, Denmark is not as flat as the Netherlands, there are rolling hills nearly everywhere, making cycling more like a workout than a comfortable ride. I haven't seen as many cyclists on the Danish countryside as I've seen in the Netherlands. The worst hill you can get in most of the Netherlands is a 5 meter dike or a bicycle overpass.

Sorry, but this seems very unlikely to me. Children and students leaving at 7 a.m. in the morning and returning home at 3 p.m. because they cycle 40km every day even with rain, snow, cold even if there PT avaliable? Maybe within 5km but 20 seems exagerate. And are parents happy to leave their 10 yo children to cycle alone from city to city?

Oh yes, it's very common for high school students. I've had many students in my class who cycled 15 - 20 kilometer one way to work. Just over an hour usually. Elementary school children not so much. Many parents are cheapskates when it comes to the transportation of their children. Some may pay for the bus if weather is really bad, but it's not uncommon to see groups of students cycling in the unprotected plains in "weather and wind" as the Dutch say :) I myself lived in the same city I went to school so I cycled about 5 km one way.

So I don't think it would be ever possble to export the Dutch model to Italy.
Not everywhere off course but in many places we can. And we should.

Your argument sums up what is wrong with this discussion in most places: far too polarized.
Cyclists are characterized as lefty hippies and you assume a lot about their intentions. Cyclist advocates on the other hand are usually too idealistic and 'victimy'.
It's not the cold war, it's just about sharing public space.

Agreed. Most cyclists are not lefties anyway. They are bike path users. I myself used to cycle for fitness purposes 20km every morning or afternoon if it weren't raining.

What I question is this "feel good, you are a superior being because you cycle" tone of most documentaries and pieces of work foreign people do about transportation in The Netherlands. Here in my university, I was only frowned upon for my transportation economic views one by a Dutch person, but couple times by fellow foreigners (category I belong to anyway) that chose to move here also for its "superior" transportation, for instance.

I've also watched many videos and read some blogs that paint the "struggle against the car dominance" as it were WW3. And people that view car drivers as the enemy trench usually resort to outright propaganda and manipulation of facts. Which is what that documentary did.

What the video is saying is that our cycling infrastructure did not come naturally, but has its origin in a grassroots movement by regular people.

But now, it has been taken over extremists that vow to reduce speed limits on rural roads even when there is a physically separated bike path well beyond the shoulder, of pushing for even more expensive parking fees to "encourage cycling", or wanting to take their bikes on trains during peak times, when this behavior is highly disruptive for fellow passengers.


Sorry, but this seems very unlikely to me. Children and students leaving at 7 a.m. in the morning and returning home at 3 p.m. because they cycle 40km every day even with rain, snow, cold even if there PT avaliable? Maybe within 5km but 20 seems exagerate. And are parents happy to leave their 10 yo children to cycle alone from city to city?

I know more than 8 acquaintances in a whim that cycled more than 10km to school every day, one-way. That is more common on high-school: it is a tiered system with 4 different tracks. Add to that ample school choice parents have. Essentially, parents can enroll their children in whatever school they want and the kid/teen is deemed fit to attend, but they are responsible for transporting the children there.

Buses are often inefficient and students cycle a lot.

wanting to take their bikes on trains during peak times

There should be a room reserved to bicycles in every train.

BTW, cycling is better than PT for short distances because you go directly from A to B instead walk from A to the bus station, wait for the bus and walk from the other bus station to B. This in case of clement weather and lack of steep sections of road. Commuting 15-20 km by bicycle isn't convenient unless you want to lose weight or you are so stinghy that you don't want to pay the bus.

There should be a room reserved to bicycles in every train.
...
Commuting 15-20 km by bicycle isn't convenient unless you want to lose weight or you are so stinghy that you don't want to pay the bus.

First, if you commute regularly by train to another city, you simply have another bike at the train station waiting for you. No need to take it with you.

...

15 km biking in the netherlands in a city should not take you more then 40 minutes. In most of the cities you dont bike more then 10 kms from the place where you live to your work, school etc. Farmer kids on the countryside may in excess cases bike around 20 km to the shool or station.

If you have to take the bus in a city, it will take you 20 minutes, and you will have to wait for it another 20 minutes (at least).... I personally took the bus few times when it was really raining cats and dogs.

Bike is simply the best transportation choice in any dutch city, when you dont need to transport something else then just yourself and when you are not a one time visitor.

^^ Taking bikes on trains is NOT going to work during peak hours. We've got enough opportunities for people to transport their bike off-peak. Just use a decent one for going around your neighborhood and a banger for around work if you've got a trainride inbetween.

I used to bike 5kms to school one way even when I was 8 years old btw. Take your lunch at school and if the weather is really shitty you might get lucky and have another kid's mom collect you. That's just how it goes around the countryside with two working parents.

I don't think that holds for people past their college education. Especially around the Randstad, it is very common to live in a city and work somewhere else. Then, if the workplace or residence is near a train station, commuting with transit might work. But if both are not in close proximity of a station, unless you want to spend 2 extra hours per day, driving is always quicker.

[quote]Bike is simply the best transportation choice in any dutch city, when you dont need to transport something else then just yourself and when you are not a one time visitor.

What is "best"? Cheaper? Probably, because bikes don't pay road taxes to help pay for the bike paths (though bikes should be tagged with plates and taxed like € 50/year). Faster? Not really beyond 3-4km.

though bikes should be tagged with plates and taxed like € 50/year

How do you want to controll that, just look at the amound of left bikes, the amound of stolen bikes, secondhand bikes. I would be scared about the bureaucratic consequences.. It's simply impossible to do this, there are more bikes then people in the netherlands! I'm a student and I have 3 bikes alone, are you going to expect me to pay €150 to ride them, hell no!

I have a question which is unrelated to the bicycles.
Recently, travel times are being shown more and more on these so-called BermDRIPs:
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4730/641254476360860c2ea0z.jpg

Will these eventually replace the normal DRIPs:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1096/dripbijhoevelaken.jpg

or will these stay?

^^ I hope those overhead ones stay! That is because you can easily miss a side lane VMPS.

For instance, they have one near Breuklen on A2. Impossible to read it daytime if you are travelling on any but the two rightmost lanes.

[I]E

Here's an example of a random place in The Netherlands. It is in Sneek, a small town in the North:
1895:
[IMG]http://f.cl.ly/items/311V2F0r41112p0a1m25/397-Schaapmarktplein.jpg[IMG]

1969:
[IMG]http://www.sneekernieuwsblad.nl/files/2011/11/366-Schaapmarktplein-522x391.jpg[IMG]

Current (Streetview (http://g.co/maps/w2z83)) (on a monday morning when the shops are closed...):
[IMG]http://f.cl.ly/items/1m1w050A0S3N3Q1o303o/Schermafbeelding%202012-02-27%20om%2015.09.28.png[IMG]


I prefer the way it looked in '69 :), perhaps I belong in the US not in Europe :). Street looks boring and crap without cars.

I also hate all the street furniture, it looks ugly.

I think town centers like this one (Malmedy in Belgium):
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=50.42541,6.029627&spn=0.002936,0.008256&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=50.425393,6.029737&panoid=kL3jwqgwh0jYcSFhHSf_1w&cbp=12,319.83,,0,4.21
Look far nicer and more lively and wealthy and inviting than that anti car crap in places like Sneek or Gouda.

Ah well, if I ever get the chance to get to the US I will, I am really someone who loves the idea of living in an American suburb and seeing nice pickups and SUV's everywhere and a pool and a nice big garden with every home.

Then again I'm a car enthousiast, I love sitting on a terrace drinking a beer looking at all the Mercs, BMW's, Audi's, Volvo's, etc :).

There should be a room reserved to bicycles in every train.

There mostly are special compartments for people who carry a bike, but it just doesn't work during rush hours. They're only allowed outside the rush hours and with an additional (I thought) 6 euros ticket.

Folding bikes don't have these restrictions, though.

Sorry, but this seems very unlikely to me. Children and students leaving at 7 a.m. in the morning and returning home at 3 p.m. because they cycle 40km every day even with rain, snow, cold even if there PT avaliable? Maybe within 5km but 20 seems exagerate. And are parents happy to leave their 10 yo children to cycle alone from city to city?

I'm going to have to confess I was one of those kids. I grew up in Zeeland. The only high schools were in the two larger towns of the peninsula, so all the kids from the small villages would have to cycle to school. In a sparsely populated province like Zeeland, public transport is virtually non-existent.

I was lucky, my one-way trip totaled to just 7km. But some kids did have to cycle 15 or 20km one-way. Needless to say, they all bought scooters the second they turned 16 (in Holland you start high school at age 12). :D

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/daquanqm/th_cycling.png (http://s388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/daquanqm/cycling.png)
(click for a larger version)

On the map: the dots represent the biggest high schools and the lines represent the major cycling routes (although there are short cuts, of course). People do tend to choose their kid's high school by proximity, since the quality of education is roughly the same everywhere.

The cycling routes typically look like this (http://maps.google.com/?ll=51.503916,3.65495&spn=0.001524,0.001789&hnear=The+Hague,+South+Holland,+The+Netherlands&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.503824,3.654242&panoid=ka8PDRdz1VfdVPJ-DE7vCA&cbp=12,260.3,,0,7.53).

I think town centers like this one (Malmedy in Belgium):
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=50.42541,6.029627&spn=0.002936,0.008256&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=50.425393,6.029737&panoid=kL3jwqgwh0jYcSFhHSf_1w&cbp=12,319.83,,0,4.21
Look far nicer and more lively and wealthy and inviting than that anti car crap in places like Sneek or Gouda.


It just look more chaotic and polluted and noisy, to me :) :cheers:

I prefer the way it looked in '69 :), perhaps I belong in the US not in Europe :). Street looks boring and crap without cars.

I also hate all the street furniture, it looks ugly.

I think town centers like this one (Malmedy in Belgium):
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=50.42541,6.029627&spn=0.002936,0.008256&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=50.425393,6.029737&panoid=kL3jwqgwh0jYcSFhHSf_1w&cbp=12,319.83,,0,4.21
Look far nicer and more lively and wealthy and inviting than that anti car crap in places like Sneek or Gouda.

Ah well, if I ever get the chance to get to the US I will, I am really someone who loves the idea of living in an American suburb and seeing nice pickups and SUV's everywhere and a pool and a nice big garden with every home.

Then again I'm a car enthousiast, I love sitting on a terrace drinking a beer looking at all the Mercs, BMW's, Audi's, Volvo's, etc :).

And getting belly every day bigger and bigger... :lol:

I am fan of removing cars from city centers. I do enjoy driving vehicles but the place for its should be in underground parking or far away from city center. Awesome it's happening here in Europe.
Car cannot be used as poverty factor as quite common in 2nd world's countries (like in eastern countries, Africa, etc).