Why do I get the impression a lot of these towers will miss this office cycle?

Poor Heron Tower, was the first one proposed, looks to be the last one built out of this current cycle

They will move out in May - confirmed.

On Norton Rose website, it is indicated they plan to
move in Autumn 2007. I am afraid we won't see much
happening over there this year.


They will move out in May - confirmed.


On second thoughts, I think JGG might be right.

I've checked the statement on the NR website - it's the same one that was made ages ago. Since then, it's been confirmed that More London is ahead of schedule by almost 9 months. The new headquarters have already been handed over to Norton Rose for internally fitting out.

Yes, I think we can expect them to vacate just before the summer, and demolition to begin immediately afterwards, assuming the Heron Tower has secured funding (which is almost certain now... we're just awaiting a statement).

Yes, I think we can expect them to vacate just before the summer, and demolition to begin immediately afterwards, assuming the Heron Tower has secured funding (which is almost certain now... we're just awaiting a statement).

And we are only talking about two buildings being a miserable 10 and 12 floors high, so that should go fast. Given the cycle, they will speed it up, someone told me very recently the intention is to complete in 2010.

In fact, these are always the same question we have been
discussing during the last couple of years.

The most important question is not about vacation or demolition,
it is actual construction. According to the timetable, the core
is expected to rise in late 2008/early 2009: 2 years.

2 years...

Given the cycle, they will speed it up, someone told me very recently the intention is to complete in 2010.

Yes, it's possible.


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/Heron-GanttChart-1.jpg

And we are only talking about two buildings being a miserable 10 and 12 floors high, so that should go fast. Given the cycle, they will speed it up, someone told me very recently the intention is to complete in 2010.

dont know why i took it but here is a reminder! All the sewage works have been completed


http://xs311.xs.to/xs311/07042/heron.JPG

The construction of Heron Tower was subject to a legal agreement:the realignment of kerblines and carriageway in Outwich and Camomile Street, and the reconfiguration of the Bishopsgate, Camomile Street and Wormwood Street junction.

The Corporation of London will agree these highway alterations at its next planning committee. Heron has just paid more than 1 million pounds as part of section 278.

The works are programmed starting the end of February through to July 2007

It is added in the report "The developer is particularly anxious to ensure that these works be carried out now so that they can proceed rapidly with the development."

Well that's good news - I think Heron is important because of it's location. Where London Wall and Bishopsgate cross (IMO) is the heart of the city and needs a landmark instead of the dated toot that's there now.

Excellent. I did some of the traffic work for that scheme back in 2000, I can't wait to see this one get going.

Great to see they're sticking to the schedule.

Wow, that word "rapidly" sent shivvers down my spine...good shivvers :)

Not sure if its related to Heron Tower, but on my way into work I was listening to a London radio station and on the traffic report they said that Bishopsgate was closed by the Camomile junction for crane installation. AFAIK Norton Rose still occupy this building so could this be related to the Stone House redevelopment, or could this be the beginning of demolition?

http://xs311.xs.to/xs311/07042/heron.JPG

Erm..so which one of these two is going?

The building on the right.

From Building.co.uk

http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=32&storycode=3081333&c=2


http://www.building.co.uk/Pictures/web/l/v/x/build_issue7_p39.jpg


Now that Heron has £650m under investment and has 150 buildings in nine European capitals behind it, Ronson is focused on ensuring his company stays at the top this time around. Aged 67, he shows no sign of slowing down.

“It is no secret that I enjoy what I do,” he says. “I do a 12-14 hour day, six days a week and 20% of that time is spent focusing on the charities I support.”

His enthusiasm is matched by his confidence that Heron is leading the pack, particularly with the “six star” 44-storey Heron Tower in the City of London. “I don’t want to be rude to my competitors but I think there are only four or five in this country that could rival us. The others simply don’t get involved in the detail like us. The product is very important and most developers overlook that. It’s about working out what people want out of a building and delivering it with detailed quality. Heron has a reputation of delivering what it says it will.”

And with increasing numbers of young executives earning ever larger amounts of money, what prospective office tenants want above all is an easier life. “They want services supplied for them,” he says. “People have busy lives. An office building like the Heron Tower won’t be just an office block – it will offer a concièrge service, drivers, a dry-cleaning service, a facility for booking theatre tickets, and all of the highest quality in the best location.” By this point Ronson is on his feet, striding around his office, gesticulating wildly and counting on his fingers the list of added extras his development will supply.

What do those who’ve worked with Ronson make of his business methods? David Connolly, a partner at Davis Langdon, has helped him on a number of projects, including the Heron Tower. “He does have a reputation of being aggressive, but he’s not actually. He is funny – in a dry way.”

Ronson is one of the most loyal people he has worked for, he says. “He is very clear in his instructions. If you don’t deliver, then that’s it really, but if you do, you can guarantee he’ll use you again.”

Ronson bears this out. “At the end of the day, people will do the job required of them or not. If they don’t, I don’t want to know. It’s not difficult working for me, but I know what I want and the standard of finish I expect.

“As long as we’re all on the same page and the product is to my standards, great. I’ve always believed in leading from the front.”

Working for him doesn’t suit everyone, he warns, because of his hard-nosed attitude. And there is one thing in particular that rubs him up the wrong way. “I don’t want people telling me what they think I want to hear. If there’s a problem I want it on the table, I want to sort it, I want to know about it. Trust me, it doesn’t take me long to work out when someone’s bullshitting.”

Looks rosy. But I'll only be happy when the basement is finished and the floors are rising.... looks as though the basement construction will start just before Christmas and we should start seeing a core rise in November 2008.

Can it really take 12 months to construct the foundations and basement?! That seems like an inordinate amount of time... I'd have thought it'd take less than 6 months! Even if they go for 'Plan B' the core won't rise until October 2008!

This tower imo is as important as the London Bridge Tower. It will balance the Natwest Tower and the Gherkin, creating a triple set of towers for the City.... which in my opinion will look far more attractive than the ones in Canary Wharf. When Leadenhall and Bishopsgate Tower are finished the City will have a coherent skyline, and allied with St. Pauls arguably the finest in Europe.

Leadenhall will be on the skyline before Heron starts to makes an impact.

The clock in that picture is bloody awful.

Can it really take 12 months to construct the foundations and basement?! That seems like an inordinate amount of time...

Excavation, piling and construction of substructure typically takes 1/3 of the
development programme.

This tower imo is as important as the London Bridge Tower. It will balance the Natwest Tower and the Gherkin, creating a triple set of towers for the City

so true.

Leadenhall will be on the skyline before Heron starts to makes an impact.

Leadenhall will not start rising above ground level before 2008. Possibly 2 quarters before Heron?

Ronson looks remarkably similar to my late Grandad.

Ronson looks remarkably similar to my late Grandad.

Sorry to hear he is your 'late' gramps....without seeing a pic of you we cant comment on the likeness :)

44 stories can not be enough for the man. He strikes me as a fellow who at the very least would want to round it off to 45, maybe top out at 50.

44 stories can not be enough for the man. He strikes me as a fellow who at the very least would want to round it off to 45, maybe top out at 50.

I think its already 46

I think its already 46

Cheers Mulattokid...

Oh yes did they add a couple of floors - well 50 would definitely suit him more in that case.

Demolition will start during July 2007 and is expected to be completed in Q4 2007.

Skanska will then proceed with "controlled archaeological excavation" (planning clauses, proximity of roman walls). Construction will start in Q4 2008.

see the pa 21 Feb.: http://www.planning.cityoflondon.gov.uk:90/WAM/doc/Report%20-%20Archaeological%20Report-81507.pdf?extension=.pdf&wmTransparency=0&id=81507&wmLocation=0&location=livevolume1&contentType=application%2Fpdf&wmName=&pageCount=63

So the building will be gone by the end of the year. Excellent news! Construction may be more than a year away, but atleast it is confirmed now:)

Demolition will start during July 2007 and is expected to be completed in Q4 2007.

Skanska will then proceed with "controlled archaeological excavation" (planning clauses, proximity of roman walls). Construction will start in Q4 2008.

see the pa 21 Feb.: http://www.planning.cityoflondon.gov.uk:90/WAM/doc/Report%20-%20Archaeological%20Report-81507.pdf?extension=.pdf&wmTransparency=0&id=81507&wmLocation=0&location=livevolume1&contentType=application%2Fpdf&wmName=&pageCount=63

huh? so theoretically the tower could have been under contruction a year earlier if it wasn't for that archaeological excavation? :ohno:

Maybe so, however they always were going to start the building in November 2008, so I think the dig was planned

huh? so theoretically the tower could have been under contruction a year earlier if it wasn't for that archaeological excavation? :ohno:


I see your your point but...we have a very important heritage and if it wasnt for this sort of exploration, the world would not know that the British Romans had female gladiators! (one found buried on a London building site) How many men have got off thinking about being defeated by her!! :lol:

Its pretty much standard prerequisite that every site will have an archaeological dig before construction can begin- The city is sitting on top of 2000 yrs of history & theres a lot thats been found - Keeps the museum of London busy at any rate :)

I would add that Heron is close to the site where are supposed to be
the roman walls. The sad thing is that preliminary works have shown
Bishops House/Kempson House are not located above any remains.
In any cases we will have to wait another 2 years before seeing this tower
rising above its basement.

I would add that Heron is close to the site where are supposed to be
the roman walls. The sad thing is that preliminary works have shown
Bishops House/Kempson House are not located above any remains.
In any cases we will have to wait another 2 years before seeing this tower
rising above its basement.Oh yes this is a key historic spot right next to where the gate "Bishopsgate" was. I thought it had already been excavated though before the current building went up and therefore a year seems a long time. I thought 6 months was the norm. Hey ho.

I see your your point but...we have a very important heritage and if it wasnt for this sort of exploration, the world would not know that the British Romans had female gladiators! (one found buried on a London building site) How many men have got off thinking about being defeated by her!! :lol:

I know it is sort of veering off topic, but is that true - that is amazing - can you post a source - I never new this.

These digs are crucial, if merely to record the evidence. They just discovered another Roman road where I'm from, it got chucked in the skip mind as there was nothing else they could have done with it! But at least we know!

I don't mind it delaying construction.

Its actually from a UKhistory dedicated programme but let me have a look for it ...more than happy to :)

http://www.janenightwork.com/sex-death-and-a-baked-swan-background-information/

http://www.inse1.co.uk/issues/inSE1-28.pdf (scroll down)

Afew links Chrissyb :)

That's great mulattokid - that was 6 years ago.

Thanks for the links....

Chris

:)

fuck sake, fucking Romans, what have they ever done for us? :D

http://www.propertyweek.com/story.asp?sectioncode=297&storycode=3082555&c=1

Heron completes financing of £500m Heron Tower

Developer Heron International has completed the financing of its £500m Heron Tower office building in the City of London.

Heron has agreed a funding deal with the State General Reserve Fund of the Sultanate of Oman and Strategic Real Estate Advisors (StratREAL) to provide the equity for the development.

Two European banks, Eurohypo and Landesbank Hessen-Thüringen, have agreed to jointly provide a £370m development debt finance facility.

....

Construction on the site will commence in June 2007 and is scheduled to complete by 2010.

Gerald Ronson, chief executive of Heron International, said: ‘Our major international banking and equity partners share our vision for this stunning development in the heart of the City of London.’

Warith Al-Kharusi, director general of the State General Reserve Fund of the Sultanate of Oman, said: ‘Heron Tower will be an excellent new addition to the skyline in the City of London.’

We pretty much knew this was going through one way or another, but needed the official word to end speculation. It's really good news none the less. Now, I take it they will proceed with accellerated demoition of the existing site as soon as Norton Rose move out to the Southbank. I take it in the time it takes for Norton Rose to move out and the end of demolition Heron International will not be looking for an anchor tenant to occupy the building due to the funding being there. This makes it all the likely for 122 Leadenhall to continue ahead admist worry's that it would be delayed due to tenants not being found. The Pinnacle also recieved funding however, i'm unsure to how they wish to proceed: with or without anchor lets.

Thanks Jef.

Great news, June 2007! Thats not far off at all! Thanks Jef! :D

Interesting to see arab investors putting money into such large office developments (pinnacle, columbus etc), does anyone know if this is a definite diversification away from their usual investment in the more tradional London buildings?

Excellent stuff, thanks Jef. It's a frustrating old business being a 'scraper fan in London, but I can't help thinking we're finally inching our way towards the establishment of a real cluster here in the near future. I'd love to see Heron, 122LH and the Pinnacle racing for who'll top out first!

This story was also in the ES, along with the major article on the sale the HSBC tower, and it interestingly showed how there are huge amounts of money to be made on high rise real estate in the UK.
It's a shame the likes of EH and UNESCO don't understand this.

The Pinnacle, have already stated that they will build speculativly.

The Times and the ES have both reported this story now.

Great stuff that we get this confirmation through the Press, although as this thread was started in Nov by our esteemed MVP jef, we had an inkling that Ronson had sort his funding sorted. The June start surely has to correspond to the final good riddance of Norton Rose to More London. Thge nasty Kempson and Bishops House won't be missed by anyone.

Its really hit me this evening. 122 Leadenhall and Heron 99% certain of construction, and Bishopsgate (the Pinnacle) looking that way. Who would have thought that the three most amazing developments in the City proposed all look to be locked on for actual construction. A proper City cluster, brilliantly diverse, and coming to a City near you. Hurrah.

ummm iw ould have thought it. see skyscrapernews article "and so it begins" lol. ive been saying it fo months, im glad now people are realising im not just saying it, it really is happening.

ummm iw ould have thought it. see skyscrapernews article "and so it begins" lol. ive been saying it fo months, im glad now people are realising im not just saying it, it really is happening.

what I also mean is that when I go for a wander around at lunchtime and walk past each of these sites, there is actual on-site activity underway, proper diggers, trucks and men in luminous jackets, which for the last 3 years has seemed like a pipedream. Its something tangible, and clearly, when backed up by news of successful bank funding solutions, makes one yearn for the dancing banana. :banana:

We have waited so long for this. I swear I first heard about this tower in 2001 before I had even moved to London. The big four, LBT, Heron, 122 Leadenhall and the Pinnacle are going to happen

true jimbo, its not just some guy on the internet writing about it now, its all happening.

Yes you were spot on Gothic - in the face of the many nay sayers on the forum. Well done GOTHIC!!

I hope 122 Leadenhall top out first, then Heron and last the Pinnacle. Then they all will have the title 'highest in the City' for some days :)

I forgot Heron was that big.

lol yes, should be interesting to see this happen.. london like 1920s new york :)

lol yes, should be interesting to see this happen.. london like 1920s new york :)

london wont be anything like 1920s new york.

it will in the sense of having competing developers build the tallest buildings in one go. five of the ten tallest buildings in new york today were all finished in the early 1930s. the only thing i think is a shame is that bishopsgate tower was reduced in height so we dont have LBT rushing to be tallest first.

Heron roof
Leadenhall roof
Heron spire
Bishopsgate Tower
London Bridge Tower

Would be the perfect order.

I can imagine that order may come to fruition, however I don't know when Leadenhall tops out, I know that Heron is completed in late 2010 and that Leadenhall is due for completion in 2010 somewhen, and Bishopsgate is completed in 2011 as is the Shard, so it may just be in the order we want!

yeah that would be fucking cool

Heron is the dark horse of this skyscraper race. It's never quite gotten the attention of LBT or Bish, and Leadenhall has caught people with it's unique design, but while everyone was concentrating on the schinanigans of those towers, Heron got on with business, achieved the near impossible (getting a height increase) and securing funding.

As I said, this tower ins't one that's been getting everyone talking, but it's a rare little gem in London -a simple, elegant looking tall tower, that hasn't offended anyone, and is getting on with things quickly and efficiently!!

Well done Heron me old lad, I'd take my hat off to you if I had one!!

:cheers:

^^ I've got over two hats, and I have been taking them off to this tower ever since I saw this gorgeous render of Heron Tower by 99 Bishopsgate from this view (be it an old render) :

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y281/gherkin007/HeronTower_pic6.jpg

Gotta remember ... its Heron that started it all.

This is a better version. Two hundred and fourty-two metres of skyscraper :cool:


http://www.willfox.com/images/skyscrapers/heron/5.jpg

I've had dreams about that staircase at the south west corner. :laugh:

Heron got on with business, achieved the near impossible (getting a height increase) and securing funding.

As I said, this tower ins't one that's been getting everyone talking, but it's a rare little gem in London -a simple, elegant looking tall tower, that hasn't offended anyone, and is getting on with things quickly and efficiently!!

:cheers:

lol- If you call 8 years quick and its worth noting Even though 122LH hasn't been officially 100% confirmed by BL yet the current site is being demolished, same with Bishopsgate whereas Heron is still occupied. Still thats pretty effcient considering its Heron ;)

Two hundred and fourty-two metres of skyscraper




yeah, a 180 m skyscraper with a twentysomething metres thingy and a 40 metre spire ...

What are the extra floors for above the main ones. Just staircase?

lol- If you call 8 years quick and its worth noting Even though 122LH hasn't been officially 100% confirmed by BL yet the current site is being demolished, same with Bishopsgate whereas Heron is still occupied. Still thats pretty effcient considering its Heron ;)
Well 8 years by London's skyscraper standards now seems pretty darn quick!!

What are the extra floors for above the main ones. Just staircase?

There's a cocktail bar up there and I'm sure someone mentioned in the new taller version there's a swimming pool somewhere at the top. I'm guessing more of plunge pool than full size Olympic...

An aquarium, not a swimming pool. :)

http://www.gmj.net/flash/heron/skybar.htm

Still better than Minerva!

An aquarium, not a swimming pool. :)


I was right! A bloody swimming pool!

And us still moaning nearly two years later (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/archive/index.php/index.php?t-235570.html)that this thing hasn't started yet...!

My first ever post on here, over three years ago now, was asking what was happening with the tower.

I'm still the whinging moaner I always was.

God 2005 was a dire year for official construction threads.

Well, Norton Rose are vacating in the next 2-3 months... so not long to go now. :)

Will they errect scaffolding before then? Or has that already gone up? I've not seen the site in a long time.
Also, will Baby Heron start before the main tower's construction?

perhaps we should send them a farewell card!

Maybe they should errect the scaffold with NR still inside, blocking out all there light with those green nets, maybe they would move out faster!

I have created a Sketchup model for the Heron Tower.

Sketchup Model (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?uq=08980132475305160291)

I know it isn't exactly accurate, but it gives a good impression of the tower:)

http://www.magix-photos.com/mediapool00/54/48/6F/30/77/16/11/DA/85/15/20/23/52/27/29/83/oma/10/8E5827C0E5CD11DBA033A6CD52273AB1.jpg

Thought I'd drag this thread up again, beacuse I love this tower and Norton Rose website says that they will start moving to MoreLondon on the 14th of May, only three weeks away! :banana: Kempston House, R.I.P

Makes you wonder what the hell Norton Rose are DOING in there.

I like Kempson House, it's one of the city's nicest modern pieces with its bijou balconies and polygonal form. Bishopsgate House, at the front of the site, mings though. Heron will be a worthy successor.

Christ, how long do we have to look at this sketch. Just build the bloody thing! Hug

^^ You're obviously new to London (UK) construction! ;)

Can someone remind me which company is actually in charge of demolishing and constructing this tower? ...is it Heron International themselves...or is it Skanska?? I seem to remember Skanska being rumoured to get the job... And have they released a timetable yet for when they are going to get underway? I would hope that they're going to start as soon as Norton Rose get their lazy a$$es out of there!

^^ You're obviously new to London (UK) construction! ;)

Can someone remind me which company is actually in charge of demolishing and constructing this tower? ...is it Heron International themselves?? And have they released a timetable yet for when they are going to get underway? I would hope that they're going to start as soon as Norton Rose get their lazy a$$es out of there!


Timetable - http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/wjfox2005/London_general/Heron-GanttChart-2.jpg

Demolition should begin in a matter of weeks.

Demolition should begin in a matter of weeks.

I'll bet a tenner it doesn't.

My mate who works for Norton says he''l be moving out at the end of may

Demolition will start around June they said. But does it really matter? Although Kempson House will be demolished by November archaelogical excavation will take another year and construction will eventually start in Q4 2008 (provided they don't find any roman remains).

They'll probably find a burial ground next to a hitherto unknown temple of Jupiter and spend 15 years digging, I wouldn't be surprised if they do knowing our luck. :blahblah: :ohno:

carefully placed there by the EH sponsored TimeTeam during the vital sewage system works

:lol: :lol:

in the demolition method statement that has been deposited at the Corp. it is indicated that the demolition process is intended to commence in July 2007 with completion in December 2007. Archaelogical excavation will follow and take approx. one year.

Lets hope timeteam just find a rusty can, quote-This fine looking Guinness can is from a around 1995 BC :dunno: :dunno:

in the demolition method statement that has been deposited at the Corp. it is indicated that the demolition process is intended to commence in July 2007 with completion in December 2007. Archaelogical excavation will follow and take approx. one year.

If they find old roman ruins or something and say 'sorry, can't build a tower here!' I will be seriously pissed off. Just imagine what English Heritage would have to say:ohno:

If they find old roman ruins or something and say 'sorry, can't build a tower here!' I will be seriously pissed off. Just imagine what English Heritage would have to say:ohno:

"Dig up the whole city, there was another one there before these brute stone beasts were forced upon such heritage!" :ohno:

Isn't there a sewer running directly below the site?

I'm no expert on archaeology, but this might mean there's nothing historical below ground.

Why is it they're doing achaeological work for a year on this tower, and yet the other skyscrapers going up in London don't seem to have to go through the same task??

Heron is very close to the roman wall.

Well I guess Heron's profile would be increased if archioligists find bones of a 2000 year old Heron! :p

If they find anything interesting - such as roman foundations/a wall etc would it be possible for them to change the plans slightly to include a viewing area at the base of the tower?....i'm aware its been done before under certain circumstance.

But would it require another planning application? and would there be the will to do it?

Who 'pays' for the archealogical digs? The dig is effectively renting the ground for 12 months. Is it a legal requirement in Central London or is Ronson generosly giving up a year of rental to be nice?

Houndsditch was a plague pit. Lots of stuff to dig up.

Houndsditch was a plague pit. Lots of stuff to dig up.Oh great we might dig up the bubonic plague all over again! Black Death? You ain't seen nothin' yet.... ;)

Are we sure it is 12 mths??. Every development in the city of London has an archealogical dig as each building is sitting on 2000 yrs of history. They normally dig up what they find & stick it in the museum of London but im sure they normally have 6-8 weeks to nose around.

Plantation Place had a dig that lasted years, but I'm not sure if that was more to with the development being held up or the dig itself. I barely remember the row of buildings that existed along there - dreary run down shops if I recall.

Plantation Place had a dig that lasted years, but I'm not sure if that was more to with the development being held up or the dig itself. I barely remember the row of buildings that existed along there - dreary run down shops if I recall.

The original Plantation place was a rather nice Victorian building with grand steps & columns- Bit of shame to see it go. Cant remeber the other buildings that made up the site. I do know it was a massive site so digging up foundations too an age. BTW does anybody have the original Plantation Place designs that were taller then the big lump with have now?

mmmm boxes

http://xs115.xs.to/xs115/07183/boxes.JPG

http://xs115.xs.to/xs115/07183/boxes2.JPG


mmmm scaffolding

http://xs115.xs.to/xs115/07183/scaf.JPG

It's all go!!!!!!

well those pics at least make up for some of the heartbreak over JP M's hq decision...

What's happening with Baby Heron?

Are they building it spec too?

Construction News -

The cheif of Skanska UK expects construction work to begin on the Heron Tower by the end of 2007. Demoltion is scheduled to begin in July on the scheme. At its peak Skanska expects to have around 1,000 people working on the project which is worth £200m to the firm. As a result Skanska will not be bidding for any of the major Olympic Contracts.

Wow...construction by the end of 2007...so it looks as though Heron will be the first of all the big boys to go up!!! Great stuff!

Thnx for the info Luke.

Do Skanska (or Heron or whoever it is) do webcams??

:cheers:

Do Skanska (or Heron or whoever it is) do webcams??


Well, they did this with SwissRe...

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/swiss_re.swf

Construction News -

The cheif of Skanska UK expects construction work to begin on the Heron Tower by the end of 2007. Demoltion is scheduled to begin in July on the scheme. At its peak Skanska expects to have around 1,000 people working on the project which is worth £200m to the firm. As a result Skanska will not be bidding for any of the major Olympic Contracts.

Wow! Thats great! But i'm dissapointed it took them 6 Years to get to this point! :(

Wow...construction by the end of 2007...so it looks as though Heron will be the first of all the big boys to go up!!! Great stuff!

Thnx for the info Luke.

Do Skanska (or Heron or whoever it is) do webcams??

:cheers:

sure leadenhall will start construction sooner, as demolition is already underway...

sure leadenhall will start construction sooner, as demolition is already underway...


No, as it will take the demolishers about a year to safely demolish the building. Something about if they removed a beam the building would literally fly and get tossed into Canary Wharf due to the strain of the beams on the building??

Construction News -

The cheif of Skanska UK expects construction work to begin on the Heron Tower by the end of 2007. Demoltion is scheduled to begin in July on the scheme. At its peak Skanska expects to have around 1,000 people working on the project which is worth £200m to the firm. As a result Skanska will not be bidding for any of the major Olympic Contracts.

fair do's, but how does this tally with the rumour that they need to undertake an extensive architectural dig for any further remnants of London Wall? I thought that earlier posts in the thread suggested actual construction couldn't start till that was complete in Q2 - Q3 2008?
Hey ho, if Skanksa's top dog is talking about construction in Q4 this year, and I know Construction News are a reliable source, I'll go with that. Hurrah.

potto, particularly enjoying your understated pre-demolition photos. Perhaps we could rename this the Official Bishops / Kempson House Removal Thread for a couple of months. (note: joking).

I either think that some prep work will be able to be done while site investigations are also underway hence 'construction' or the developers don't think there is all that much that will be found under the building that could delay them.

I either think that some prep work will be able to be done while site investigations are also underway hence 'construction' or the developers don't think there is all that much that will be found under the building that could delay them.


Exactly what I was going to post. Perhaps they can pile drive whilst those Uni undergraduates can search for their sticks and bones?

Reading the Method Statement for Archeaological Excavation it is clear this development will not be stopped for a year (or anything like it) for archeaology. The period mentioned in the report is a time window for a watching brief. In other words the Arcs are on site watching as excavation and piling proceeds to see what's uncovered.

I doubt if there will be any delay at all once the work starts.

Also interesting to see that Keltbray will be doing the demolition.

No, as it will take the demolishers about a year to safely demolish the building. Something about if they removed a beam the building would literally fly and get tossed into Canary Wharf due to the strain of the beams on the building??


Again..the legarcy of prestressed concrete....

That's something I'd love to see though... a jumping building. It'd be great if someone could set one up, in controlled conditions of course. A desert maybe.

I know we knew this was happening, but just to confirm:

http://www.nortonrose.com/offices/office_info.asp?locationid=1


London

3 More London Riverside
London SE1 2AQ
United Kingdom

tel +44 (0)20 7283 6000
fax +44 (0)20 7283 6500

We have moved to our new offices at More London.


So - that's it. They're out!

So - that's it. They're out!

Finally...

Hard to believe it's taken so long. Next month is the 5th anniversary of this tower being approved. FIVE YEARS!

does that mean they will have to reapply for PP?

Doubt it as they've reapplied with a height increase since and anyway if they do/have done s106 etc stuff it shows some sign of commencement.

Well, they did this with SwissRe...

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/swiss_re.swf

Can you change the title of this thread? or at least swap it round so it starts with Heron Tower... :)

Done.

And I don't care what Jonny 5 says - this building is 242m ;)

Huh? Did I ever say it wasn't?

Make this an official demolition thread now!

Urm!? eXSBass, is it being demolished yet?

Someone knows something we don't....

I walked past the site today. There's still people going in & out the building.

There was some utility digging up the roads nearby but they are doing that in the area to do with replacing the old water mains.

The last time I spoke to the Norton Rose security people (about 2 weeks ago), the plan was for the move to be completed on 23 May, which is today.

The digging up the road works have cut off the pavement and appear to be to do with the water pipe replacement stuff goign on nearby but the sign shows that Skanska is involved and they dont usually deal with that sort of thing...


http://xs215.xs.to/xs215/07213/heron.jpg

is it possible that the road works are part of a pre-condition of the buildings planning permission somehow as part of its prepwork?

is it possible that the road works are part of a pre-condition of the buildings planning permission somehow as part of its prepwork?

Yes it is, the roadworks have been going on for at least a year now

but Skanska is doing some major road works behind the building that has cut off the pavement, this must be seperate to the water mains work that has been going on for past year

anyway noticed this at London Bridge this morning

mentioned 3rd of June, but the bus was moving too quickly?

http://xs215.xs.to/xs215/07214/norton.jpg

but Skanska is doing some major road works behind the building that has cut off the pavement, this must be seperate to the water mains work that has been going on for past year

anyway noticed this at London Bridge this morning

mentioned 3rd of June, but the bus was moving too quickly?

http://xs215.xs.to/xs215/07214/norton.jpg

Their logo has already appeared above the underground car park at More London too.

Guys this is my first post but I have been reading these boards for a whilst. I can tell you that work is indeed now started. I work for Skanska and know the site team have been established for a long time. However dont expect changes over night, there is almost a years work in the ground including the demolition.

^^ Oh goodie...and industry insider. Welcome to the Forum man, keep us informed :yes:

:okay:

Guys this is my first post but I have been reading these boards for a whilst. I can tell you that work is indeed now started. I work for Skanska and know the site team have been established for a long time. However dont expect changes over night, there is almost a years work in the ground including the demolition.

Welcome! I am glad to hear we have an insider who will keep us a bit more realistic about the progess.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN COULD I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1151/526610304_89796e914b_b.jpg

Is Keltbray the only demolition company in London? I bet they're raking in the dough

Good news! I hope they put some nice renderings on the boardings!

Keltbray are legends, I mean truly Gods among men, they're invloved in practically every major projects London is undertaking these days. Their annual turnover in 2003 was in excess of £45 million, so heaven knows what they'll be raking in during these next few years!!

Btw, I think that's the first time I've really seen the building Heron will be replacing, and my God it's ugly, looks like something straight out of the 60's! Makes it all the more enjoyable that it's going down, and being replaced with such a 21st century beauty!

my God it's ugly, looks like something straight out of the 60's!

That's possibly because, er, it IS something straight out of the 60s.

Excellent news, I have a soft spot for Heron after their planning fight with EH!

Here's Bishopsgate in 1983 (tall buildings at odd angles at it's a small part of a larger wide angle picture!)
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa164/SELondoner/Bishopsgate.jpg
The Heron site is on the left (look for a white hexagonal roof - it's that plus the one in front of it). To the far right is the 122LH (currently being demolished), and the future sites of the Gherkin and Pinnacle. Several buildings have changed here since this was taken - in fact I think one of the buildings the Pinnacle is to replace is under construction in this pic (red cranes).

That picture is great, and it really shows why we need to build taller in London - look how much space is taken up by roads in comparison to floorplates of the office buildings - especially those on the Heron site. I didn't realise the two buildings at the bottom of the pic were as old as 1983 - even I was still climbing trees when they were built!

I like the look of that white building at the bottom, is that still there? Can somebody post an up to date pic please? And that tower next to it looks really modern and shiny :) shows they were doing something right in the eighties (if that's when they were built?)

lol...well the white one hasnt aged very well at all and dashwood house (the tower next to it) is being reclad.

It's amazing how such a small area has changed in 24 years.

You can see the Baltic Exchange to the left of what was then the Commercial Union building - this was destroyed by the first big IRA bomb and is now the site of the Gherkin.

122 LH was then occupied by Italian International Bank.

The red cranes do indeed mark the construction of the buildings that are about to make way for the Pinnacle. At that time they were destined to be Standard Chartered Bank's main London offices.

The large building in the centre was the then London headquarters of Hongkong & Shanghai Banking Corporation, before they took over Midland Bank and became HSBC. This was severely damaged by the second big IRA bomb and was completely reclad afterwards.

The large building top left is the Houndstitch, then the City's only department store.

At the top right, you can just make out the old barrel roof of Fenchurch Street station, before it was redeveloped into the current "Toblerone" shape.

Those were the days....

I like the look of that white building at the bottom, is that still there?

If you mean the white mid-rise between the 99 Bishopsgate and T42, it is no longer there, probably totalled in the IRA bomb.

I like the look of that white building at the bottom, is that still there? Can somebody post an up to date pic please?
I took this last year -

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1118/530979707_e9e93a575c_o.jpg

If you mean the white mid-rise between the 99 Bishopsgate and T42, it is no longer there, probably totalled in the IRA bomb.

No he was talking about dashwood house and the white midrise next to it.

If you mean the white mid-rise between the 99 Bishopsgate and T42, it is no longer there, probably totalled in the IRA bomb.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa164/SELondoner/Bishopsgate.jpg

Nah...one bomb was between T42 & BAnk of Hong Kong, but to the north of this pic....he he...as I am typing I see this pic looks like it was taken just afterwards...can you see the missing building to the left of the Green tower (bank of Hong Kong). ..thats the spot the lorry bomb went off (although thi pic was apparently taken in 1983..the bomb was about 1991!) Whats remained of the ancient St Ethelburgs church is behind that tower.

The other bomb site is somewhere else, but not near that white buildins...which actually looks quite Deco like (although its a 1950's building)

You can also see in the pic (right hand corner with red cranes) they are building 24 Bishopsgate which is as we speak having the scaffold go up so it can be demolished for the Pinnacle to rise.

Mulattokid- I think that sites looks like it is being built as its far to tidy for a bombsite & nothing else is damaged. So that building will have been rebuilt 3x in 30 yrs. Once here, once when it was bombed & it will also be demolished if/when 100BG gets built.

I took this last year -

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1118/530979707_e9e93a575c_o.jpg

that's 55 Old Broad Street - i used to work in there on the 9th floor when CBRE were based there! :)

After seven years, work FINALLY starts on the Heron Tower, yet after about three posts of talking about that we are now talking about white buildings and IRA bombings? Surely there is a thread to discuss the old pictures. It was nice to see the current building on site and how it looked in London a few years ago, but can we not have the conversations about the other stuff in some other place?

After seven years, work FINALLY starts on the Heron Tower, yet after about three posts of talking about that we are now talking about white buildings and IRA bombings? Surely there is a thread to discuss the old pictures. It was nice to see the current building on site and how it looked in London a few years ago, but can we not have the conversations about the other stuff in some other place?

i guess so . sorry, i got sidetracked. somebody else started it.
yep its great that the Heron Tower is finally starting! :banana:
that means Bish, Lead and Heron will be all rising at the same time!
the skyline is giong to be awash with cranes this time next year!

This forum feels like a mix between a school yard and a dictatorship sometimes. If someone isn't talking about ejaculating over a building site they're moaning about the discussion of buildings in the first place.

If a member posts a photo and someone asks about a building pictured, are we supposed to clog up the forum with a brand new thread, or even worse use the useless search function to fish out an ancient thread just to ask a simple question?

Why are so many of the members on this forum trying to act like moderators, perhaps there's an audition... Moderator-Idol, I can't see it catching on!

Face forward, no chatting at the back and let's return to the subject pupils!

Heron.... woooo! :banana: And so on.

^^ Hey that post is off topic dam it, what do ya think ure playing at??

Does anyone have any pictures of what Heron's base is going to look like?? I've seen the quality bases of leadenhall and Bish, but I've only seen views of Heron from a distance...in fact I'm not entirely sure which version of the many renders is the up-to-date one.....

Now, I'm off to ejeculate over a building site...wooo

I apologize, totally my fault! :colgate:

This forum feels like a mix between a school yard and a dictatorship sometimes. If someone isn't talking about ejaculating over a building site they're moaning about the discussion of buildings in the first place.

If a member posts a photo and someone asks about a building pictured, are we supposed to clog up the forum with a brand new thread, or even worse use the useless search function to fish out an ancient thread just to ask a simple question?

Why are so many of the members on this forum trying to act like moderators, perhaps there's an audition... Moderator-Idol, I can't see it catching on!

Face forward, no chatting at the back and let's return to the subject pupils!

Heron.... woooo! :banana: And so on.

Sorry, but it's just getting a bit annoying. Someone who came onto this page without seeing the one before probably wouldn't even have realised that demolition has literally just started, after 7 years of working towards this moment. The point is, one person asked what the building was. Fine. Answer. But then it goes more and more and more off topic. I usually wouldn't be annoyed about this, but the start of demolition on the Heron Tower site is a HUGE deal, but some people are just going off topic.

Pix would be good!

^^^^ There is only so much that can be said..."buildings are being demolished...there" It is all relevant for Gods sake...if it wasnt for an IRA bomb then there would be no Gherkin....did you know that? If so...how did you know that? IF you didnt.....well!

Are you saying that you did not learn anything about this site, the surrounding area, the history from the chatter above? You wont develop your ability to be a lateral thinker if you are not able to think 'outside' of the box and connecting it all together.

I disagree entirely

if it wasnt for an IRA bomb then there would be no Gherkin....did you know that?

Yep, I learned that on Wikipedia ages ago

i like all the chat.....ur never too old to learn something new!!! and to be honest we ve got several years b4 this really starts to get going so a broader chat about the building/the history of the area etc is most welcome and i love seeing those old pics!!!

^^ Hardly several years, the core and/or steelwork should start rising in under a year and a half, plus we'll will see plenty of demolition and groundwork being done in the meantime.

But I do agree that a bit of general chatter is all right as long as it is mainly skyscraper-relevant and doesn't stray too far off the topic of the thread. So there is absolutely nothing wrong with discussing the varying history and changes in the City and how it has evolved around the Heron site...all adds to the experience of viewing and posting on this forum. I mean it never usually lasts that long anyway and as soon as somebody has some new news or pics we get right back onto Heron anyway.

It's when people start argueing and talking about things entirely irrelevant to the thread that goes on for many posts, that's when it's unnacceptable.

Anyway...what's happening with pics guys?? C'mon Londoners, we non-London-ites are relying on you for updates on these big projects....maybe Heron/Skanska will put up a webcam later on, hopefully.

year and half?? not far off my predicted 2 yrs!!! lol anyway i enjoy those who know the history of london sharing their knowledge with the rest of us!! AND........... YES the more pictures the better!!!

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN COULD I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1151/526610304_89796e914b_b.jpg


This is absolutely excellent news. The tower is on schedule. Demolition will take 6 months btw.

http://xs216.xs.to/xs216/07234/heron-tower-1.jpg
http://xs216.xs.to/xs216/07234/heron-tower-2.jpg
http://xs216.xs.to/xs216/07234/heron-tower-3.jpg
http://xs216.xs.to/xs216/07234/heron-tower-4.jpg
http://xs216.xs.to/xs216/07234/heron-tower-5.jpg
http://xs216.xs.to/xs216/07234/heron-tower-6.jpg

Are they construction materials in the second pic? :crazy2:

lol pre-emptive cladding. Er I assumed they were stripping out internal stuff

the inside of this building obviously didn't age as badly as the outside then, all that stuff looks clean and new

oh perhaps it is for the hoarding?

Captain Keltbray strikes again, adios!

You don't get much more conclusive than a Keltbray lorry (they're almost like an anthropogenic personification of death, hovering with a primed drill bit instead of a scythe.......) and the appearance of hoardings surrounding a site.

Can't remember where I said it, but 2007 is the year of demolition, 2008 is the year of groundwork, and 2009 is the year of a new skyline climbing its way out of the heaving cityscape. Joy.

If this is on schedule, would Heron will be the first of the city's 'big three' to top out?

If so, I suppose it would be UK's tallest for, umm, half a year or so? (It feels weird describing a 242m tower being usurped by even bigger buildings in the near future....)

It's really "only" 203 meters. The rest is a cheeky spire.

But the spire is an integral part of the design - unlike the spire on Minerva, for example, which was just a TV mast.

I take it as 242m. Euston Tower has antennae which make it taller than 404 feet but they aren't counted. Same with the BT Tower. Heron's spire is integral to its design and will have an anti-aircraft light on top. Hence, Heron will be the tallest building in the UK when it is topped out. How long it will hold this accolade depends on how quickly the Arabs get cracking with Bish. Should a decent race.

Sort of similar to the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur then, which had a spire considered part of the structure (making it the worlds tallest building), whereas the Sears Tower only had antennae.

No sign of demolition work from this vantage point. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/HolidayPics300507134.jpg

^^ someone has been for drinkies at T42........ nice day for it sport.

Keltbray are legends, I mean truly Gods among men, they're invloved in practically every major projects London is undertaking these days. Their annual turnover in 2003 was in excess of £45 million, so heaven knows what they'll be raking in during these next few years!!

Btw, I think that's the first time I've really seen the building Heron will be replacing, and my God it's ugly, looks like something straight out of the 60's! Makes it all the more enjoyable that it's going down, and being replaced with such a 21st century beauty!

They are everywhere at the moment, should buy some shares!

No sign of demolition work from this vantage point. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/luke82/HolidayPics300507134.jpg

I love the little four storey pub on the street corner in that shot. Just to the left of the tower you've focused on - right in the bottom left of the picture.

Houndsditch is now closed and hoardings have aready gone up right across the road. The junction of Bishopsgate and Camomile st/Wormwood St has had all the turn restrictions lifted.

Workmen continued to prepare the site today... no sign of a scaffolding yet, but it is clear that demolition is not far away. Despite the common impatience in these forums, they are spot on schedule. Give a good last look to those two beauties, because by end of November they will be gone.

http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/The-Simpsons-Mr-Burns-Excel.jpg


(Sorry. Getting carried away with posting images now :) )

Some interesting concrete structures being formed round the back

http://xs216.xs.to/xs216/07252/heron-1.jpg

http://xs216.xs.to/xs216/07252/heron-1-3.jpg

They are just the blocks to weigh the hoarding down. The brown box is a temporary EDF substation as one is being demolished inside. Cementation on board to do the piling. Will be a similar thing to Ropemaker and The Walbrook on that front

It still seems incredible to me that buildings like Broadgate Tower and Beetham Manchester can come from practically nowhere and be going up in months whereas Heron which is ten years old before construction starts is just about to see site clearance get underway.

They are just the blocks to weigh the hoarding down. The brown box is a temporary EDF substation as one is being demolished inside. Cementation on board to do the piling. Will be a similar thing to Ropemaker and The Walbrook on that front

I seeee, thanks!

It still seems incredible to me that buildings like Broadgate Tower and Beetham Manchester can come from practically nowhere and be going up in months whereas Heron which is ten years old before construction starts is just about to see site clearance get underway.


As far as I know, the Broadgate Tower has been in planning since the early 1990's!

Beetham Manchester is crap too, whilst the Heron is a fantastic design. Why is it that the crap seems to get through first?

Look at Birmimgham, although most certainly not crap in this case. Snow Hill, a recent proposal is Under Construction, when Broad Street Tower (almost identical hight) has been proposed for ages.

Exactly what building is being replaced?????:uh:

You've got yourself in a twist over the aerial shot taken from Tower 42. The building the picture is centered on is the blue glassed 99 Bishopsgate which isn't going anywhere.

Heron is replacing the white six sided building to the right of 99 Bishopsgate, about twelve floors high. It also will involve the demoliton of the building behind, but you can't see it from the aerial photo.

Scaffolding materials have arrived!

http://xs316.xs.to/xs316/07264/heron2.JPG

Scaffolding materials and a Keltbry man!

http://xs316.xs.to/xs316/07264/heron4.JPG

also does anyone know the reason for the blue pipes? Seen in last pic extending from near top to ground floor . there is a similar blue pipe on the Leadenhall demolition


Image of the blocked off Road giving a sense of the scale of the development:

http://xs316.xs.to/xs316/07264/heron1.JPG

no longer needed Traffic Lights:

http://xs316.xs.to/xs316/07264/heron3.JPG

As seen a few posts above... excellent ;)

yeah I'll word that bit differently, but the scaffolding is new n exciting!

The portion of the road now closed off is being pedestrianised once the tower is completed. Until then obviously being used as construction storage area.

This is going to be an incredibly tight area for the scale of the project, it'll be quite something to see this going down as well as back up.

a colleague of mine had her leaving drinks in the new Norton Rose office this evening. Fine atrium, but like the rest of More London, nothing special IMO. although apparently one of the IT people jumped off and killed himself in there last Friday as all the stress of coordinating the move hit home. Not a nice homecoming.

nice update potto - we all know what's coming next!

hmm nice.......

let's get ready to rummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbblllllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

The portion of the road now closed off is being pedestrianised once the tower is completed. Until then obviously being used as construction storage area.

This is going to be an incredibly tight area for the scale of the project, it'll be quite something to see this going down as well as back up.

I suspect the tower cranes will be practically on the edge of the road, it really is going to be a tight squeeze.

The blue pipe is used to spray water during demolition works in order to reduce the amount of dust generated when masonery is broken up.
The dust can be harmful if inhaled and can reduce visibility.

Oh its all coming down! Middle section has disappeared

http://xs117.xs.to/xs117/07271/herond1.JPG

http://xs117.xs.to/xs117/07271/herond2.JPG

http://xs117.xs.to/xs117/07271/herond3.JPG

Now ... 16 months of demolition, excavation and piling.

How long has it been? 7 years? I can't believe it is actually happening!

I feel bad for you guys, I have only been here since 2005 and even to me it feels like it's been ages!

Thanks for the updates Potto, you are a star! I'm sure it will be very exciting for you watching Heron Tower grow after the 16 months!

lol yes the 16 month thing Jef posted has made me wonder how many lunch time miles I will clock up and how many picture messages it`ll cost me to post to my e-mail! Perhaps I`ll pace myself

Aye, maybe a once a week will do the trick? Or once a fortnight?

the thing is, if you have TOO many updates, you do not notice progress as much, and don't have as much to look forward to.

Oh, and we don't want to wear you out lol:)

I Remember seeing it for the first time on the euroscraper forum...We are lucky that it hasn't dated!
It was one of the best towers in Europe and it still is!

I'd say that the height increase, and the gain in soar and elegance greatly contributed to that:)

I remember the PI announcement like it was yesterday...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2144867.stm

It was the Evening Standard article about Heron the week before the PI started that first got me interested in skyscrapers.

I remember first searching for skyscraper sites just after 9/11. I found the first incarnation of Skyscrapernews in which the two lead stories were Swiss RE and The Heron Tower, both just potential projects that had hopeful start dates for the coming year or so. Of course Swiss RE was under construction within two years but this turned into a bit of a lost cause.

To summarise: I like this tower.

It was the Evening Standard article about Heron the week before the PI started that first got me interested in skyscrapers.

It was a TV show I caught the end of that finished with a pic of The Shard that led me to SSN, and then to here:)

Of course Swiss RE was under construction within two years but this turned into a bit of a lost cause.


Until now!;)

I first got into skyscrapers after visiting London in 2003 and seeing the Gherkin. I got home, typed "London Skyscrapers" into Google...and the obsession began :D

I was still lurking around on the original forum when this project first came to my attention (circa 2000). HSBC and citigroup towers werent even around then.

Well. I do hope this one doesn't turn out to have a black crown.

My hope is that construction of the super-structure will follow the construction of the sub-structure.

I remember the PI announcement like it was yesterday...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2144867.stm

"Objectors said it would spoil the London skyline, in particular views of St Paul's Cathedral and the Tower of London"

I see the Tower of London was being used even back then!

My hope is that construction of the super-structure will follow the construction of the sub-structure.

So your saying that all they are really doing is getting everything ready for construction of the tower to start, if market conditions are right in 16mths time?

Thats not very reassuring.

I thought this tower had secured funding and was being speculatively built. What are you on about Jef?

Anyway, planning permission will expire if they don't build it soon.

So your saying that all they are really doing is getting everything ready for construction of the tower to start, if market conditions are right in 16mths time?

Exactly.

I thought this tower had secured funding and was being speculatively built. What are you on about Jef?

It has secured funding and the super-structure will be built speculatively as and when market conditions permit. At this point in time Heron has not yet exchange contracts with Skanska to build the tower itself.

It will eventually be built. The real question is when.

Heron aren't anywhere as big or robust as the major players, and whilst market conditions may appear to be good at present, like any good gambler, they will probably sit and try to gauge the most opportune time to commence. To be fair, if it takes 16 months to get to the stage of actually starting the super-structure, they have plenty of time to decide. Eggs and baskets - BL did it with 122 Leadenhall - only in their latest set of results did they formally commit to construction.

Great photos - they are ripping into it. I remember that news announcement re: Heron, my first few weeks into my new job on Lombard Street and I immediately went wandering up Bishopsgate at lunchtime to find the location. I found this forum slightly after. 5 whole years since then, yee gods, I've aged.

Heron aren't anywhere as big or robust as the major players, and whilst market conditions may appear to be good at present, like any good gambler, they will probably sit and try to gauge the most opportune time to commence.

Two years ago would have been perfect. Missed the boat I'm afraid.

Two years ago would have been perfect. Missed the boat I'm afraid.

yup, but they couldn't get Norton Rose out, who were rightly sitting on their lease until their new offices in More London came online. Aside from a punitive breakage cost for the lease (and these are lawyers remember!!), I'm not sure Heron could have done a huge amount, although I'm not that clued up on the underlying arrangements.

all i can say is this guy worked hand and foot ti get funding trust me this will be built at the end of demolition

Just out of interest, If they then decide not to build the superstructure, what exactly do you do with a very expensive hole in the ground, and a basement that is built to take the superstructure of the tower, and can no be used for anything else.
I can not see the logic in this, You knock down 2 rentable buildings, spend millions on demolition and foundations, and then decide not to continue with the rest of the building even though ( unlike LBT at the moment) you have secured funding for the entire project??????????????????????????:ohno:

We are talking about temporarily putting it off. Many developers used to proceed that way for large developments. I refer you to Churchill Place buildings or Riverside South as a case in point.

I don't see any logic in building a tower that will stand half empty not least because the income flows would not be high enough to reimburse payments on debts. Nobody wants to loose money and Gerald Ronson does not want to go bankrupt once again.

As Super-Jimbo said, he has some time left to take its decision and he will do in due time.

I see your point, I suppose The Broadgate Tower was another example of this, If I recall they had built the raft above the station a couple of years before they built the tower.

As Jef said I think the space between HSBC and BoA at CW was a classic example of this - the prepped the land and then it sat with those funny coloured shapes painted on it for quite a while. Now we have KPMG building on it.

Admittedly the same scenario would look very unusual in the heart of the City.

With regard CW- they prepped the land as this was going to be Enrons HQ before they went belly up.

Admittedly the same scenario would look very unusual in the heart of the City.

Would the City of London allow a hole in the middle of its urban fabric for longer than 12 months? I have no clue about the local planning regulations in that respect, but I would be surprised if you could just knock down a building and leave it as a open hole waiting for a the next cycle. On the city fringes, where land has been reclaimed by building over the railways, like where we have the Bischopstower going up, I can understand it, but in the middle of the City? In Westminster a completion date from start of works is often part of the conditions of the planning permission. If that were to be the case in the City as well, Ronson should only have limited flexibility in terms of pausing the works between substructure and superstructure.

In any case, with every investment bank desperately looking for space and the "flat screen" bonus having been fully exploited, there is no reason for concern. I hear that Merrill Lynch has now grown out of their new EMEA offices, after 5 years, when everybody though at the time those offices were massively oversized. One risk factor remains Gordon Brown; uncompetitive taxation on private equity and hedge funds could drive part of these businesess offshore, as has already happened in the re-insurance market. But few believe he would be that stupid because it would reduce the tax-intake, not increase it. A further risk factor remains terrorism. As long as nothing bad happens, it is actually a positive factor because most banks are in the process of upgrading their BCP requirements, which drives prices outside central London. But of course if something bad were to happen, it may set back London a few years. Let's just hope that this never occurs. With regards to the financial industry activity, everything looks extremely positive.

So my best bet is that these three towers in the City will be up by 2012.

They won't leave a hole in the ground. I repeat once again that contracts have been signed to build the sub-structure up to ground level.

Minerva did plan the same approach for its tower in the City before eventually changing its mind and submit a revised pp. 5 CP is another example of this.

We will know in due time whether construction will immediately follow or will be phased.

[QUOTE=JGG;14066861]Would the City of London allow a hole in the middle of its urban fabric for longer than 12 months? I have no clue about the local planning regulations in that respect, but I would be surprised if you could just knock down a building and leave it as a open hole waiting for a the next cycle. QUOTE]

this actually happened after the 80's bust , when Japanese companies bought a load of city development land and then values dropped through the floor, it wasnt worth building on for a good few years. so entirely possible.

They won't leave a hole in the ground. I repeat once again that contracts have been signed to build the sub-structure up to ground level.

Minerva did plan the same approach for its tower in the City before eventually changing its mind and submit a revised pp. 5 CP is another example of this.

We will know in due time whether construction will immediately follow or will be phased.

Oh great...so that means we could end up with another boring mid riser if Ronson loses his nerve.

Until you see the core rising, you can take NOTHING for granted in London.

Everyone says I’m so negative on these forums, well now you know why. Haven’t we waited long enough for this Heron Tower to be built. How long has it been now, 10 years since it was first proposed?

I see the pessimists are out in force- even though there are visible signs of the Heron development actually taking place now.

Do you really think the developers would waste loads of time & money & then not go through with the final completion of the building & just go to all the trouble & expense of demoliton, excavation & building the sub structure . They have waited long enough to get Norton Rose out & gone through a PI & a height increase. They have now got the finance for the development & are pushing on with speed. It would be pointless for them to build up to street level & then sit around for even more years. They will not only have missed the present property cycle but they will also be paying off debt they have used to get that far. There is also the added expense of having to renew the planning application. The Heron tower is gong to be multi-let to tenants so does not require 1 or 2 large pre-lets. Looking at how successful Broadgate has been are attracting multiple tenants I can't see this running into too much trouble.

All the reasons for delays for all these city towers are pretty much documented & now all off them have cleared all the hurdles & have the finance in place- witness the various demolition crews working a present. I'm quite confident most, if not all the present towers will be built baring some massive unforeseen disaster that effects the world economy.

Agreed London Lad. This is probably the most positive point so far in the history of London skyscrapers, and it looks as though it will get better.

They have now got the finance for the development & are pushing on with speed. It would be pointless for them to build up to street level & then sit around for even more years. They will not only have missed the present property cycle but they will also be paying off debt they have used to get that far.

A distinction must be made between securing the finance and drawing on the credit line. There is no risk associated with securing the finance. The money is potentially available but it is not used. Once the developer signs the contractor and draws on the line he must pay back interest payments and its collaterals (equities, goodwill, etc.) can be recovered by the bank if his income flows are not high enough to reimburse capital and interest. This explains that depending on the economic conditions it may make sense to phase your developments even when finance is secured.

Regarding the property cycle I am afraid it is already too late as Darjole made it clear. Stickiness is a major concern in the property industry because of the typical delays associated with planning permissions, demolition, and construction. Herd behaviour and mis-match between demand and supply is another one. Today the consensus is that the office development pipeline is large enough to absorb predicted demand with a risk of over-supply and downwards rents, hence lower income flows, from 2010 onwards.

It's a shame really because all it seems it takes in the City at least is two towers to go up (Broadgate and 122 Leadenhall) plus a handful of groundscrapers and that is considered an over-supply of office space.

I would be less negative than both of you. Generally, there's a time lag between the office cycle and the economic cycle of the business services sector. The London economy is sill buoyant and there's no sign yet of a significant slowdown.

I am puzzled by these stories about over-supply. Firstly, these three towers are a decent chunk of floor space but in a market like the City this represents only a small percentage increase. Secondly, one has to look as much at demand. Forbidding a sudden external shock or a stupid policy mistake, all investment banks, legal firms, asset managers are expanding rapidly in London. Once in a while a firm may have a little cull as part of an efficiency drive, but in general hiring is very strong. Thirdly, because of the bear market (2001 - 2004) and the enormous space saving by the introduction of flat screens, the City is just emerging from a period of very little real estate development. Fourthly, a lot of the construction happening in the city is not generating a large amount of floor space, it is mainly upgrading / replacing obsolete stock. Take for instance Drapers Gardens or the LSE tower: huge projects, but how much sq m is being added? What is happening right now is still nothing compared to what we witnessed in the late 80s. Now that was a boom.

I remain with my bet these three towers will all be up by 2012.

I've always thought that it's not just about pure oversupply either, but also related to market sector. There may be lots of vacant offices but more often than not, isn't that because they are no longer up-to spec, so no-one wants them? I mean I guess there could still be a demand for prestigious skyscraper office space even if there was a surplus of square footage available elsewhere?

also, especially with the Heron Tower, they are offering something unique a very high-spec office place, the rolls royce of the office world... the Heron guy was very detailed about this aspect, he talked about connected office villages for clustered knowledge and specific attention to the needs of workers. I completely agree that we are seeing an upgrading of office life and this is the area that can offer competition with the rest of the world as it ties in with keeping the human capital here in London.