here are some photos I took of the grand opening of center-city park! I'll have to get back to the park at night sometime and take some pictures. The foutains look gourgeous at night with the lighting.

http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening1.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening2.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening3.jpg
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http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening19.jpg
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http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening22.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening23.jpg

About Center City Park: Located in the heart of downtown, the two-acre Center City Park is a landmark – the symbolic city center, which will significantly enhance the growing downtown cultural and recreational corridor. The park is designed to support a variety of uses and activities, and to function as an exciting destination for the entire community. Broad-based input from many citizens resulted in the park’s overall character and associated themes of openness, welcome, diversity and the city as a crossroads, reflecting the qualities that are inherent to the city itself and its rich history and heritage.

Aesthetically, Center City Park encourages activity along the street, while the rich mix of deciduous plants separate the park users from the surrounding roadways and help distinguish the park from its urban environment. Each edge and corner of the park responds to the adjacent context, while the gateways, open and visually porous, lure citizens to enter and experience the park.

The northwest and southwest gateways are distinctively identified with pergola shade structures and sculptures. The intricately woven details and design of the pergolas were inspired by the shuttle and weaving loom that recalls the importance of the textile industry.

The park design is highlighted by a series of large iconic elements and several smaller, exquisitely crafted works of art. The larger distinct park features include: the Great Lawn, the Oval Lawn, the Pavilion, the northwest and southwest Pergolas and the Fountain.

•The Fountain, designed by Dan Euser and Halvorson Design Partnership (designer of Post Office Square Park in Boston), is an abstraction of the seasonal streambeds found throughout the topography of the Piedmont Triad region.

•The bronze water vessel sculpture called “Libation,” by Jim Cooper of Greensboro, appears to emerge from the fountain and represents the fountain’s headwaters.

•A terra cotta Mother Bird and Chicks are placed in two areas on the southern side of the Great Lawn. These sculptures by Fred Johnston introduce elements of whimsy and curiosity to the park and invite interaction by visitors.

•Early Bird is a bronze love seat sculpted by Judy Kensley McKie at the northwest entry to the park.

Center City Park is privately owned by a foundation partnership. Action Greensboro is the manager of the park and contracts with two local groups for services. With the support of the City of Greensboro, DGI will provide maintenance, operations, and landscaping services, and Grassroots Productions will provide program services.

As I said on the "other" forum, I can't wait to see this in person. This is an awesome addition to DT Greensboro. This shot in particular reminds me of Manhattan in a certain way:

http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening19.jpg

You might also want to show off the city's new park in this thread (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=409186). ;)

I sure will :)

Fantastic photos!!! Many thanks for keeping us posted on the progress.

Fantastic photos!!! Many thanks for keeping us posted on the progress.

Thank You!

Great pics!! :) They even look good in the rainy/overcast conditions. I did not get to see the grand opening, but glad you got it on cam! ;)
This is something we really needed and it looks great.

Unclear vision hampered Village (http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061206/NEWSREC0101/61205018)

http://bjimg.sv.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BJ&Date=20061206&Category=NEWSREC0101&ArtNo=61205018&Ref=AR&MaxW=400&MaxH=350&title=1
An artist's rendering of Bellemeade Village

By Jim Schlosser
Staff Writer

GREENSBORO — Lack of clear vision, not overbuilding of downtown residential units, caused the halt of the planned Bellemeade Village residential and commercial project, its co-developer said Tuesday.

Jim Jones promises a project will be built on the 6.1-acre site of former North State Chevrolet, a dealership Jones’ family owned.

"We’re still real optimistic,’’ said Jones, in partnership with his brother, Steve, on the project that included 300 apartments and condos, plus retailing and offices.

"Once you get a plan in place, it’s important to hear what the market says and adjust," Jones said. "Every developer we have talked to said they have had to adjust projects."

In fact, a condo project, called 411 W. Washington St., was scrapped a few years ago only to be resurrected later by another developer. The 33-unit project is now done.

At present, four other condo projects are under way, including Center Pointe in the former Wachovia building that will have 156 units.

Don Jud, professor emeritus at the Bryan School of Business at UNCG, said he has no idea what stalled the village, but he doesn’t believe residential development has reached a saturation point downtown.

A report he did last spring for Center Pointe said downtown could easily double the 1,200 people now living there.

Jim Jones said presales had been strong on one of the village’s four planned condo buildings, but potential buyers asked what kind of apartments, retail and offices would be part of the project.

Jones said cloudy market conditions kept the brothers from giving detailed answers.

Next time, he vows, "We want to make sure we have a clear picture we can follow all the way through."

He was unsure how long it will take to re design the project, considered a key in the ongoing renewal of downtown’s northwest side.

Greensboro real estate agent Jim Roach, who worked on the village’s commercial sales, believes a national housing sales slowdown may have hurt the village, but he says there were other factors.

He said Greensboro is a conservative town. Mixing residential, retail and offices remains a relatively new concept here.

He also said at one point consideration was given to nixing apartments for offices or a hotel. The uncertainty may have cooled potential condo buyers.

Also, Roach wishes the village’s strategy had been to build first the Brandt Building, a less expensive condo building, instead of the Porter Building, the most expensive, with units from $239,000 to $364,000.

While presales lagged on the Porter, they reached about 50 percent on Brandt, enough for a bank to make a construction loan.

Roach believes if ground were broken on Brandt, it might have created interest in the other buildings. As it was, construction hadn’t begun on any buildings nearly a year after the sales office opened. It closed for good last week.

"People want to see something under construction, not bare ground,’’ Roach said.

Jim Jones agreed. He says unlike Charlotte, where people prebuy units in large, unbuilt mixed-use projects, people here want to see something tangible.

say goodbye to the old Wachovia Building! Its transforming into Center Pointe

construction web cam
http://gsowebcam.wcsr.com/

It will become this
http://www.downtowngreensboro.net/images/centerpointe-resid.jpg

a multi million dollar project that transforms the old Wachovia Building to a mixed-use condo/office building with a restaurant covering the first floor. The building is located across the street from the new Center-City Park.

This calls for celebration!!! Great news for DT Greensboro.

:dance:

In my opinion, the hardest part is the waiting, particularly prior to the actual starting point. Sure, this is not a brand new tower, but nevertheless it will be exciting to see this building put to some good use, once more. Hopefully, this effort will generate even more interest and bring at least one new tower in the next few years ;)

The building is pitch black at night, so it sort of is a new tower.

Southeastern Building in downtown Greensboro
http://cll.bizjournals.com/story_image/66380-400-0.jpg
The historic 9-story Southeastern Building is set to be converted to a mixed-use apartment/retail/office building by use of tax credits. The building had been changed over the years and it will be converted back to its 1920's style. The 90,000-square-foot building will have retail on the ground floor; 25,000 square feet of office space on floors two through four; and 47 apartments on floors four through nine.

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories...7022800^1393287 (http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2006/12/25/story8.html?i=66380&b=1167022800^1393287)

Developers Willard Tucker and Barry Siegal plan to take the Southeastern building in downtown Greensboro back to its 1920 look.

It looks like Greensboro is focusing on bitchin' renovation projects. And apartments? That's good to see.

Many people forget there is a park adjacent to the new center-city park across Davie Street its a small green space called "Festival Park" that has a stage and is used during the summer for watching outdoor movies at night. the Greensboro Cultural Arts Center, Cafe' Europa and the main public library are located next to the park. But there is a proposal to expand Festival Park, bringing the cultural arts center and Cafe' Europa in the park. The Greensboro Cultral Arts Center is home to the Green Hill Center for north Carolina Art. The YWCA located next to the park will be relocated to a proposed mixed use residential development in the northeast section of downtown. The land where the YWCA is now would be converted to being part of Festival park. The expansion and upgrade to Festival Park includes an improved stage area, an expanded patio for Cafe Europa, a large rock fountain waterfall and an amphitheater. The goal is to make Festival Park and the new Center-City Park one big park. The archtects who designed Center-City Park would likely be involved with the adjoining Festival Park so everything will look consistant.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...EC0101/61227030 (http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061228/NEWSREC0101/61227030)

THE FESTIVAL PARK PLAN

http://www.downtownstadium.org/festivalpark2006.jpg

CENTER-CITY PARK

http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening20.jpg
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http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening21.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening19.jpg

The building in the background with the green roof is the Greensboro Cultural Arts Center
http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening11.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/parkopening17.jpg

Here is the Greensboro Cultural Arts Center. The center is home to The Green Hill Center for North Carolina Art, African American Atelier, 25 arts organizations, Cafe' Europa, galleries, a theatre, and dance, printing, and music studios. The green space around the center would be redesigned as an amphitheater and become a part of an expanded Festival/Center-City Park.
http://www.c7a.com/pageImages/portfolio/GREE%208652%20INST%20EXT%20I15_zoom.gif

viewed from the center-city park site
http://www.c7a.com/pageImages/portfolio/GREE%208652%20INST%20EXT%201_zoom.gif
Cultural Center atrium
http://www.c7a.com/pageImages/portfolio/GREE%208652%20INST%20INT%20I9_zoom.gif
http://www.c7a.com/pageImages/portfolio/GREE%208652%20INST%20INT%201_zoom.gif
http://www.greenhillcenter.org/rental/rental.jpg

The main library would also be a part of the park
http://www.msrltd.com/project_images/int3_lg6.jpg
http://www.msrltd.com/project_images/int3_lg2.jpg
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http://www.msrltd.com/project_images/int3_lg5.jpg
http://www.tricityawning.com/images/gpl1a.jpg

Here is Festival Park

http://www.guilfordnative.org/cfest112005/images/nov0505cf016750.jpg
http://www.guilfordnative.org/cfest112005/images/1.jpg
http://www.guilfordnative.org/cfest112005/images/nov0505cf005750.jpg
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http://www.guilfordnative.org/cfest112005/images/nov0505cf073750.jpg
http://www.guilfordnative.org/cfest112005/images/nov0505cf082750.jpg

A lot of great work has been done in DT Greensboro, so I've come to expect even more good news. Nice plan, by the way :okay:

More good news from DT GSO. Renovations will definitely help attract more attention and bring more people to downtown. Thanks for sharing the good news :)

More good news from DT GSO. Renovations will definitely help attract more attention and bring more people to downtown. Thanks for sharing the good news :)

you are welcome. I cant wait till we start seeing new highrise construction.

^^
I promise you one thing: I will take a trip to GSO so we can all celebrate :) Seriously, DT Greensboro's image will change forever if something above 25 floors is announced. It will show the true potential of the city's skyline, which is not as obvious to the person who have never seen it with his/her own two eyes.

Good news for downtown! Looks like they are anticipating the opening of Southside's City View Apartments this summer.

rent will be between $600 to $950 per month, not bad for brand new apartments in a downtown location.
There will be about 8 apartment buildings I think and the complex will include a pool, clubhouse for all of Southside's residents, a cardio center, internet cafe' and residential business center!

http://www.downtowngreensboro.org/resources/images/20070123-160139-Cityview-6.jpg

This is where they are being built
http://www.downtownstadium.org/SS1221_12.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/SS1221_14.jpg

Some residents will have a fantastic view of the skyline :okay: I guess those will be the $950/month units :) Definitely great news for DT Greensboro.

Some residents will have a fantastic view of the skyline :okay: I guess those will be the $950/month units :) Definitely great news for DT Greensboro.

yes, I'm looking to eventually move downtown and these apartments are very attractive and have great amenities. I imagine it wont take lond before all the apartment are taken. talk about a great view, just wait til Rail Yard Park is completed. The 1 mile linear park will abut the apartment complex.


More good news. a major village mixed-use development on the northeast corner of downtown Greensboro will be moving forward it will include over 300 condos and townhomes and will be a great transition between downtown and the historic Aycock Neighborhood, I also heard that a new YWCA will be a part of the development. I'll keep you posted.

Yes, do keep us posted, because there is a lot more happening there that I thought. Is that the Aycock project I heard of - I think we talked about it in SSP - some time ago?

Yes, do keep us posted, because there is a lot more happening there that I thought. Is that the Aycock project I heard of - I think we talked about it in SSP - some time ago?

I think it was a little different if we are thinking of the same plan. The neighborhood had a charette drawn up that showed a village at the intersection of Summit Ave and Edward R Murrow Boulevard. The cloverleaf at that intersection was gone in the plan. But this is a seperate developer, John Kavanah who is building this project. Its similar to the vision the Aycock neighbborhood had for this corner of downtown. I know the city wants to eventually close down the highway like clover leaf so there is more connectivity between downtown and the Aycock neighborhood. Edward R Murrow Blvd acts as a barrier between downtown and the neighborhood. It was origionally designed to become a freeway loop around downtown Greensboro like I-277 in Charlotte but it was never completed becasue of the oposition towards the project and the section that is open is more like a six lane thorofare with a few stop light intersections. Thank goodness it was stopped. DGI wants to reduce the lanes of the under ultilized Murrow Boulevard by turning the south bound lanes into part of the greenway thats suppose to circle downtown.

The name John Kavanah rings a bell... I wonder if I heard of this project before. Great news, nevertheless. What are the chances of having a light rail along Edward R Murrow Blvd? I do not remember how it looks, and I am asking this question because I am not always happy when I hear about reducing lanes. I wonder if a future light rail line could achieve more, without reducing the space along which people can commute. Any photos of that area?

The name John Kavanah rings a bell... I wonder if I heard of this project before. Great news, nevertheless. What are the chances of having a light rail along Edward R Murrow Blvd? I do not remember how it looks, and I am asking this question because I am not always happy when I hear about reducing lanes. I wonder if a future light rail line could achieve more, without reducing the space along which people can commute. Any photos of that area?

I dont have any photos of the area but I do think Murrow Boulevard creates a dead space between downtown and the Aycock neighborhood. I dont see light right coming to Greensboro anytime soon. The commuter rail is whats being proposed for Greensboro and will be utilizing existing tracks for the most part. But who knows, maybe we'll see a street car trolley along Murrow Blvd one day. Thats wishful thinking on my part though:) and if inner-city density increases to levels seen in really major metroplitan cities what could see a light rail siytem through out Greensboro. But that would be decades away. but then again if traffic is extremly unbearable, we could see something like that happen sooner. If Greensboro's population were to double over night there would be serious traffic problems throughout town. Traffic is already bad today at peak hours.

here is the break down of the project as it was proposed in July

it will be a major housing/office/shopping complex on an 8 acres site that will include 35,000 sq ft of commercial space and 300 residential units, including condos, live-work condos, townhomes and apartments. The development would likely include a restaurant and a small grocery. In addition to this development, The YWCA want to build a new downtown building adjacent to the mixed-use development and their plans will include a second building with 48 residential units to house the elderly. If John Kavanagh plans to build 300 units, we could see some midrises or maybe buildings that reach as high as 10-stories. I say that because 8 acres really isnt that big considering all that is being proposed in this project and to cram that many units on a site that small along with commercial buildings and a YWCA, you have to build upward. It will be interesting to see further details on this project.

now John Kavanagh could have expaned plans since then with other amenities. I know the residential units went up from 250 to 300 which is the same number of units that was planned for the old Bellemeade Village plan near the ballpark. The current YWCA is downtown next to Festival Park and the Greensboro Historical Museum. Once the YWCA moves to the John Kavanagh development, the old YWCA will be raised and the land would be used as an extension of Festival Park. Festival Park will be under going some upgrades with proposals that includes an amphitheater and rock waterfall. Davie Street seperates Festival Park from the new center-city park and the plan is to make the two parks more continuous as if it were one park.

Thanks for the input and additional information.

http://cll.bizjournals.com/story_image/70274-400-0.jpg?rev=2

A large tract of land bordering the central business district will be developed into a retail,office and residential complex. The site is surrounded buy East Market Street to the north, Pastor Anderson Way and a church to the west, Bennett College to the south and Dudley Street and the House of Prayer to the east. It was the site of the former main post office. NC A&T State University wanted to purchase the land for its expansion plans but The United House of Prayer for All People offered more money for the land.

$75M redevelopment plan detailed for E. GSO site

The Business Journal Serving the Greater Triad Area

Julie Knight
The former U.S. Postal Service facility on East Market Street was purchased by the United House of Prayer for All People, visible in the background, in 2005. The church has been working with the East Market Street Development Corp. and consultants on a plan to redevelop the site.
View Larger

A Cincinnati consulting firm working with the church that owns a key piece of East Greensboro property has delivered a proposal to East Market Street Development Corp. calling for a $75 million conversion of the 13-acre site into an area that would feature retail, restaurant, office and residential space.

That proposal is the result of almost a year of consultation between economic developers, the community and the United House of Prayer for All People, which bought the property at East Market and Dudley streets in 2005 for $3.65 million to use, in part, for expansion of its own facilities and parking. The site currently houses an abandoned post office facility.

That will be a nice project :okay:

http://cll.bizjournals.com/story_image/70274-400-0.jpg?rev=2

more details on this downtown site which could include more than 200 residential units and midrise flats, an 150 room hotel, 11,000 sqaure foot community center, 60,000 sq ft for retail and restaurants and an academic building shared by NC A&T State University and Bennett College as well as a 484 space parking structure.

$75M redevelopment plan detailed for E. GSO site

The Business Journal Serving the Greater Triad Area

A Cincinnati consulting firm working with the church that owns a key piece of East Greensboro property has delivered a proposal to East Market Street Development Corp. calling for a $75 million conversion of the 13-acre site into an area that would feature retail, restaurant, office and residential space.

That proposal is the result of almost a year of consultation between economic developers, the community and the United House of Prayer for All People, which bought the property at East Market and Dudley streets in 2005 for $3.65 million to use, in part, for expansion of its own facilities and parking. The site currently houses an abandoned post office facility.


Mac Sims, president of the East Market Street Development Corp., declined to comment on the proposal because church leaders have not yet been fully briefed on the recommendations. And a telephone message left at the church, which is located just across South Dudley Street from the former postal facility, was not returned.

Apostle A.D. Cunningham has said in the past that the church is being careful in its planning to keep the wishes and needs of the community in mind. He told a neighborhood meeting held at nearby Bennett College last summer that "we assure you, you will be pleased and proud" of the ultimate result.

The church has not yet indicated publicly any official timeline for developing the property.

Architect Craig Gossman of the Cincinnati-based consulting firm Kinzleman Kline Gossman has been in charge of preparing a proposal for the site based on meetings with stakeholders, including the church, area residents and the two nearby historically black universities, N.C. A&T State University and Bennett.

"We also met with developers and professionals who have an understanding of what's moving and what's not" as they developed the proposal, Gossman said. The firm also used demographic data about disposable incomes and other trends at play in the area.

"We wanted to put all of that in there before venturing to say what we think should happen," Gossman said.

A layered proposal
While the church will have the ultimate say in how the property is developed and at what pace, Gossman said his firm's proposal is designed to be built in stages, with the earliest phases including infrastructure work such as streets and sidewalks, a large outdoor gathering space near the intersection of Dudley and Market streets dubbed in the proposal as "Market Commons," a community center and 30,000 square feet of space for retail shops and restaurants.

The early phases could also include 20 units of housing. The overall development proposal calls for between 175 and 200 housing units, mostly in the form of condominiums, midrise flats and zero-lot-line construction to allow for high density.

"The neighborhoods were screaming loud and clear that a more diverse housing component would be welcome, for empty nesters, elderly people, single people and others who would like to remain in the neighborhood but don't have many options now," Gossman said. Students would also benefit from more housing options, he added.

Gossman said that another key early component envisioned for the property is retail and restaurant space fronting Market Street. A logical candidate for an early anchor tenant is the church itself, which currently operates a popular cafeteria in its basement.

"If they were to put that restaurant into a storefront, I think it could be much more successful," Gossman said. "That frees up space inside the church to do some other programming, so that would be a win-win."

The total development envisioned by the consultants includes room for:


60,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space;
an 11,000-square-foot community center;
175-200 housing units;
a 150-room hotel;
an academic building that could be shared by A&T and Bennett College, with about 34,000 square feet of space; and,
a 485-space parking structure.

City has interest in project
As with any major development, financing will be a challenge, and Gossman said he could not comment on how the church might choose to pay for the various projects. He said their proposal includes a "creative financing model," and he said the city may also be able to provide some support.

The city has not been approached with any formal plans, according to Assistant City Manager Ben Brown, but is open to the idea because of the importance of the location.

"We've been waiting to see what the church has in mind, but we're very interested in the continuation of the upgrade of that corridor," Brown said.

Potential financing partners will want to know if the area can absorb the new construction, and the research that went into the proposed development will likely be a key supporting document. However, there are other ambitious plans in the works nearby, including a proposal by Kavanagh Homes and Brown Investment Properties to put a $60 million, 310-unit residential development at the site of the former Pet Dairy, less than a mile away on Summit Avenue.

Robbie Perkins, president of NAI Maxwell in Greensboro, said he's enthusiastic about the potential for the site and hopeful that the church will have the resources to pull it off.

"I wish them all the luck because that site needs to be redeveloped," Perkins said. "I don't see any of these projects as direct competitors in the sense that if one of them happens, the other one doesn't. A lot depends on the quality and staying power of the sponsor."

The next step will be up to the property's owner, but Gossman said the community should be excited about how much has been done so far and what could happen as a result.

"The big 'wow' with this project is the chance to return to the location what the African-American community lost when the post office went in, which was a center for the neighborhood's cultural life," Gossman said. "This is an opportunity to return that kind of 'town center' to the corridor.

Excellent proposal. ~200 residential units is nothing small. Add the hotel rooms, the retail and the community center and the pedestrian activity in that area should pick up significantly. Thanks for the update :)

FYI -

I edited a preexisting thread and designated it as the official Center Pointe (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=403737) thread. Feel free to post info/updates regarding this project in that thread.

Center city project in the works



GREENSBORO — A $42 million , 8.5-acre development on the northeast quadrant of downtown will be one of the most expensive in the long efforts to revitalize the center city.

Called Murrow Station , it will include housing, offices and retail. Construction could begin this fall.

The tract, which includes the former Pet Dairy property, will contain 12 to 14 buildings of no more than four stories in an area bounded by Summit Avenue, Lindsay Street, Murrow Boulevard and the Norfolk Southern railroad.

Planned by developer John Kavanagh and Brown Investment Properties , it will take four to five years to complete.

"It won’t all be developed at one time," said Chester Brown III , the president of Brown Investment . "This is a big deal."

The project will be the first redevelopment effort in that part of the city.

"It shows that downtown is really growing in all quadrants," said Ray Gibbs , the president of Downtown Greensboro Inc . "It’s not just on Elm Street."

The project’s investment will exceed the $37 million rehab of the former Wachovia Tower on North Elm and be comparable to Southside, a neighborhood of single-family homes, town houses, lofts and small businesses in the southeast corner of downtown.

Like Southside, Murrow Station will have a neighborhood feel and will significantly increase the residential options downtown.

The project will include 60 town homes , 130 condos and about 30,000 square feet of office and retail space.

The average size of the town homes will be 1,600 square feet , with an average cost of $260,000 .

The condos will range from 700 square feet to 1,200 square feet and cost $120,000 to $220,000 .

Some of the buildings could have condos above office or retail space. The project also will include a pool and clubhouse.

The look of the buildings has not been finalized.

"We are tweaking the style of the architecture," Brown said. "It will be good-looking."

Brown expressed some concern about whether the old Pet dairy, an art deco building on Summit, can be used in the project.

"It will be really hard to save," he said, referring to the building’s condition. "We want to have a design that complements that facade."

In addition to the Pet property, the parcel includes the offices of the Carolina Peacemaker , a newspaper on Summit Avenue that covers the African American community, and the former Galloway/Flow Buick-Isuzu dealership at Lindsay and Murrow.

Efforts to reach Peacemaker officials about their plans were unsuccessful.

Brown said he hopes the developers can buy all the land by mid summer.

The property still needs to be rezoned into the city’s central business district. The request is scheduled to go before the Greensboro Zoning Commission on May 14 .

The project will not include a new location for the YWCA , which has outgrown its current facilities at 1 YWCA Place.

Officials are looking for land downtown for a new $14 million Y and a second building for elderly housing.

They had hoped to make these structures a part of the Kavanagh/Brown project but couldn’t come up with the

$2 million necessary to buy into the project.

"They cut us out altogether," said Carolyn W. Flowers, the Y’s CEO . " ... I’m disappointed, but I told them they had to move on."

certainly this will be great for downtown

I just read in the News & Record that a developer is considering four sites for a MASSIVE project in downtown Greensboro! details will be revealed in the News & Record Tommorrow and I'll keep everyone updated.....PLEASE...FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET IT BE A TOWER!! The News & Record is really making this sound like a big deal so lets keep our fingers crossed! the article says four sites. I dont know if there are alot of large sites available which could possiblly mean something tall. There are only about 2 big footprint sites that im aware of.

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070502/NEWSREC0101/70502036

I will cross my fingers for you guys. Not only you need one skyscraper to keep the momentum going, but you actually deserve it ;) I think there are several lots in DT Greensboro where towers can be built. Let's hope this announcement will be for a tower. Now I am getting anxious :lol:

according to another forumer who knows about this and wont tell "Greensboro you guys are going to be getting some BIG NEWS! tomorrow"

my gut feeling tells me its a tower proposal but I could be wrong

I hope you guys get a tower. :banana:

You guys are finally going to get a Wal-Mart Supercenter downtown. Congratulations. Even if it is a high-rise, don't count on it getting built. I'm not trying to be a downer, but that seems to always be the case when a developer proposes a condo high-rise over 20 stories tall in these mid-sized cities like Greenville, Greensboro, Asheville, etc. Hopefully, i'm wrong with this one though. :)

G-man430, Greensboro isn't Greenville. And a lot of times, it depends on the developer and his expertise.

I'm hoping for the best for Greensboro.

G-man, for the record, neither Greenville nor Greensboro needs highrises to continue growing successfully. Those are nice additions when they happen, but these large-scale mixed-use urban centers are what is currently driving the economies in our cities. This sounds great and hopefully both Green cities (the 'ville and the 'boro) will have something to celebrate tomorrow regarding massive downtown additions.

^^Would you like me to change my signature to what it says on UP too? ;) Also, how is Greenville going to have something to celebrate tomorrow? Is some large announcement coming out i'm not aware of?

The cat is finally out of the bag! An out of town development company is looking at several sites in downtown Greensboro that would be the largest complex the center-city has ever seen! The complex would inlude a high-rise hotel, restaurants, entertainment venues, residential, office and retail space. some of the sites being considered are

1 directly next to First Horizon Ballpark behind left feild

2 the large Duke Power site next to the Childrens Museum

3 a site between Market and Friendly Streets

apparently this is a MAJOR project because the unnamed out of town developer is looking at a few other cities so this is not a done deal but based on the size and scope of this project, we could see more than one high-rise in this project. This would be a HUGE DEAL for downtown Greensboro. The entertainment venues could turn out being venues such as "The house of Blues" since this project is being considered for other cites.


Whisper of major project stirs city

GREENSBORO — An out-of-town development company is considering four sites downtown for an entertainment, shopping and residential complex that could be the largest ever in the center city.

The project, which is still in the discussion phase, could cost at least $50 million and top out at $150 million.

The development could include restaurants and entertainment venues; residential, office and retail space; and a high-rise hotel.

City officials and downtown leaders have been tight-lipped about the project because it could wind up in another city; the developer is said to be considering sites between Virginia and Florida.

"It's so early," said Ray Gibbs, president of Downtown Greensboro Inc. "It upsets me when people start talking about ... something that is extremely conceptual. We don't want to comment because it is so conceptual."

The developer has not been identified.

A decision could be made on the project within six months. It would then take a year to put the plans together.

So far, the developer has been shown six sites downtown. That list has been narrowed to four, only two of which have been identified:

* the Weaver Foundation property at Church Street and Friendly Avenue, plus land across Friendly owned by the city and Lincoln National Corp.;

* the former Bellemeade Village property next to First Horizon Park.

Some property owners apparently are unaware that their land is being considered.

"No one has been in contact with us," said Skip Moore, president of the Weaver Foundation, which owns the former Duke Power property at Church and Friendly. "If they want to build on our property, it is pretty early."

Efforts to reach Jim and Steve Jones, who own the 6-acre Bellemeade Village tract, were unsuccessful.

City officials have had little comment.

"All I can say is that there has been some interest in those areas," said City Manager Mitchell Johnson, referring to the Weaver property and the land across Friendly. "It is very exciting when you think about what the potential is for that area."

Johnson said he and a committee of area stakeholders had already been putting together a development plan for the downtown cultural district, an area that includes the city, Lincoln and Weaver properties.

The parcels cover about 8 acres.

Because of the project's scope, sources say, it would likely require some public money to make it work. Those incentives would primarily come in the form of improvements such as a parking deck, sidewalks and streets.

Sources say it is too early to know the amount of an incentive request.

They say no plans have been drawn or buildings designed. There's also no word on how many rooms the hotel might have or how tall it might be.

Those familiar with the project say the developer must decide if the project will work in Greensboro and specifically downtown.

"The project here is one that I think can be extremely exciting," Gibbs said. "(But) it's extremely early .... It's like the first mile of a marathon. We are at the easy mile."

Multimillion dollar projects are becoming more frequent downtown.

Developer Roy Carroll is moving ahead with a $37 million rehab of the former Wachovia building on North Elm Street.

And developer John Kavanagh and Brown Investment Properties plan to spend $42 million on a housing, office and retail project in an area bounded by Summit Avenue, Lindsay Street and Murrow Boulevard.

I've been thinking.....since other cities are being considered for this, it leads me to believe that this could be some kind of "themed" urban development that could be designed to attract tourists which combines residential and office. Entertainment seems to be a big part of the project and "Florida" was mentioned as a site. It wouldnt make sense for this "development company" to scout for cities throughout the south for merely a hotel/residential development.......ummmmm I wonder. Could this project be much bigger in nature than we realize? The "development company" appears to be showing HIGH interest in downtown Greensboro because its narrowed down sites. I have a few ideas running around in my head what this could really be because I dont think we've been told the whole story yet. I wont mentioned them but and if im correct, this is HUGE for not just downtown but for Greensboro and would REALLY help increase downtown develpment

Maybe they scout for cities that offer ballparks in their cores. I would think that your biggest competitors may come from cities that offer similar things to Greensboro. I am sure Raleigh is NOT one of them, given the fact we do not have a ballpark to attract sports events in downtown. Given the low profile attitude that the Triad has kept throughout the years, I will not be surprised if DT Greensboro gets this project. I think that DT GSO has everything a developer may ask for. I am crossing my fingers for y'all, and I am very anxious to hear the final decision.

Greensboro may be the front runner because I have not heard anything like this mentioned on news media from other southern cities. I just have a strange feeling this is really going to be a HUGE project, and not just in physical size. The paper said "The development company has to decide wether this will work in Greensboro", not just downtown. That tells me its not just a hotel and condos. This gives us a hint what the city could be dealing with here.

Potential downtown Greensboro megaproject may require city participation

The Business Journal of the Greater Triad Area
May 3, 2007
by Matt Harrington

A developer from Florida is considering Greensboro as a possible location for a mixed-use project that could range in value from $50 million to $150 million, but pulling together a site large enough and at a cost-effective price could be a challenge, said Ray Gibbs, president of Downtown Greensboro Inc.

Gibbs said the developer, who he declined to identify, is looking at a project that could span anywhere between 2 acres and 12 acres, and possibly include residential, office and entertainment amenities. If it's on the larger side, finding an area for the project will consist of assembling property from multiple landowners, Gibbs said.


"We're competing with a lot of other (cities) for it," he said. "It's going to come down to can we assemble land at an equitable price and in a reasonable time period and is there good cooperation."

That cooperation is likely to include a request for financial participation from the city, likely in the form of a parking deck or similar infrastructure-related component.

Gibbs declined to provide other details on the potential projects, including possible sites. The Jones brothers own about 6 acres where they had planned Bellemeade Village, a mixed-use development, until those plans fell apart. The Weaver Foundation owns about 4 acres downtown at the former Duke Energy site. Gibbs said he has not talked with the Jones brothers or representatives of the Weaver Foundation about the potential project.

"There are four assemblages that could potentially work," Gibbs said. "Now we're trying to see what it would take to put them together. It's potentially a very big project, but there's still a lot to do."

Other states being considered by the developer are Virginia, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida, Gibbs said.

Gibbs said the developer could make a decision in about three months.

I think its a "Downtown Disney District"

its good that g-boro is just being considered for this. its just a little odd that cities are competing for a development. Im pretty sure its happened before but Ive never heard of such a thing?

congratulations!!! Im pretty sure u guys have some stiff competition!

I do worry that this article is way too premature though judging from Ray Gibbs' reaction. i wonder who from DGI went out and ran their mouth? :ohno:

^^Greenville, SC is one of the competing cities for this project.

^now im really worried. you guys are on too big of a roll!

^^We've already passed a butt-load of incentives and infrastructure improvements for this project. Rumor is a new interchange might be needed on one of the interstates here for this.

its good that g-boro is just being considered for this. its just a little odd that cities are competing for a development. Im pretty sure its happened before but Ive never heard of such a thing?

congratulations!!! Im pretty sure u guys have some stiff competition!

I do worry that this article is way too premature though judging from Ray Gibbs' reaction. i wonder who from DGI went out and ran their mouth? :ohno:

Thats why I said it has to be something like a Downtown Disney District. Disney announced in February that they are considering "Disney Urban Center" in downtown districts (similar to their Downtown Disney park). Its funny this developer is from Florida and that cities are competing for this. In Greensboro this is being described as "massive" and a "megaproject" two words that have never described a developement in downtown Greensboro before.

^^Greenville, SC is one of the competing cities for this project.

Source?

This one and the one in Greenville might be different after taking a look at both. The one in Greenville involves more parties a lot more money than this one.

Maybe they scout for cities that offer ballparks in their cores. I would think that your biggest competitors may come from cities that offer similar things to Greensboro. I am sure Raleigh is NOT one of them, given the fact we do not have a ballpark to attract sports events in downtown. Given the low profile attitude that the Triad has kept throughout the years, I will not be surprised if DT Greensboro gets this project. I think that DT GSO has everything a developer may ask for. I am crossing my fingers for y'all, and I am very anxious to hear the final decision.I can tell you a ballpark helps but that's not one of the main factors there to why there a frontrunner yes "I said frontrunner" it has more to do with their history and the fact that it's between the state two largest cities making it a focal point for both area's, so to a degree Raleigh and Charlotte are in a way helping Greensboro's bid for this MASSIVE REGION CHANGING PROJECT. Meaning if Greensboro wins this thing it could change the area into a real destination area, if it's not scaled down and that might happen, but I can also tell you this I would KILL to have this even in the scaled down version, also my source tells me that Greensboro indeed is the frontrunner but it also has the most obstacles to OVERCOME out of all of the area's trying to win this, Some of the problems they have had has been certain members of leadership are not showing any, fighting over if there should be a public investment in this project and yes GOOD OL BOY Politic's trying to get their two cent's in and yes there's a element that doesn't what this in Greensboro, because it's such a MASSIVE CITY AND MAYBE REGION CHANGING PROJECT if they go with the full themed version of this project, I can tell you that they have 3 plans all of them very different in size and Height and one of the plans DWARF'S the EPIC CENTRE in Charlotte in size and scope, when I say Size that does'nt mean it's going to have a 60 story tower folks, but anyway am giving up to much information, Bascially what I got from my accounting friend is that this thing is Greensboro's to lose, and Greensboro could easliy lose this things if the obstacles, I have already talked are not Handled or worked out in a quick fashion because the other cities that are in this chase have there land deals in place and seem to show alot more focused LEADERSHIP that's willing to invest the needed money for this Massive project.

Wow. Very interesting. I think Greensboro will pull through.

^^I know that guy. He's crazy. :lol: There is a site in Greenville that was sold to a developer from Florida last year for a potential mixed-use development. The site is 7 acres and is located downtown. Do you think this could be one of the sites competing with this one?

Raleighboi very interesting indeed. My bet as that this project is related to Disney

video link

http://www.myfoxwghp.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=3104683&version=1&locale=EN-US

Greensboro Abuzz About Downtown 'Project X'

Hints of a multi-use residential and shopping complex.

Greensboro
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By ANGELA RODRIGUEZ
FOX8 News
GREENSBORO, N.C. (WGHP) -- For now, we'll call it Project X. Greensboro city officials said they have several big projects in the works, but will not confirm a report in the Greensboro News & Record that an out-of-town developer is looking at four downtown sites to build a multi-use residential, shopping and entertainment complex.

Ray Gibbs, president of Downtown Greensboro, Inc. said the plans are too early to even discuss. "Something this big just takes so long to put the pieces together."

Gibbs did drop a few hints. He said his group has had discussions about hotels. "I think it's that entertainment complex that has mixture of entertainment for families, children for singles."

Developer Roy Carroll said he has heard a lot of rumors about Project X.

The question is what does downtown Greensboro need?

Suggestions from people we talked with Thursday range from more restaurants, a movie theater and grocery stores downtown.

"It'd be cool if it had big name merchandise shops downtown like The Gap," said Steve Kelly, who works downtown.

It's still not clear if Greensboro can land the mystery project, but Gibbs said there is land available. "If one in five projects I talk about come about, I'm batting well," said Gibbs.

Gibbs did say Project X is the biggest deal he's ever been associated with. Gibbs also said hundreds of thousands of dollars are spent conducting studies to see if a city could sustain something as big as Project X.

I can tell you a ballpark helps but that's not one of the main factors there to why there a frontrunner yes "I said frontrunner" it has more to do with their history and the fact that it's between the state two largest cities making it a focal point for both area's, so to a degree Raleigh and Charlotte are in a way helping Greensboro's bid for this MASSIVE REGION CHANGING PROJECT. Meaning if Greensboro wins this thing it could change the area into a real destination area, if it's not scaled down and that might happen, but I can also tell you this I would KILL to have this even in the scaled down version, also my source tells me that Greensboro indeed is the frontrunner but it also has the most obstacles to OVERCOME out of all of the area's trying to win this, Some of the problems they have had has been certain members of leadership are not showing any, fighting over if there should be a public investment in this project and yes GOOD OL BOY Politic's trying to get their two cent's in and yes there's a element that doesn't what this in Greensboro, because it's such a MASSIVE CITY AND MAYBE REGION CHANGING PROJECT if they go with the full themed version of this project, I can tell you that they have 3 plans all of them very different in size and Height and one of the plans DWARF'S the EPIC CENTRE in Charlotte in size and scope, when I say Size that does'nt mean it's going to have a 60 story tower folks, but anyway am giving up to much information, Bascially what I got from my accounting friend is that this thing is Greensboro's to lose, and Greensboro could easliy lose this things if the obstacles, I have already talked are not Handled or worked out in a quick fashion because the other cities that are in this chase have there land deals in place and seem to show alot more focused LEADERSHIP that's willing to invest the needed money for this Massive project.
Wow. VERY interesting indeed! I am biting my fingernails in anticipation and hoping it is not the same proposal we have in SC. If this goes through and ours goes through, the Carolinas are sure to see a larger boost in economic growth for the next few decades.

This is just too exciting!!! I truly hope that Greensboro's leaders think and act big. Thanks for the input, RALBOI. It's always good to get as much information as we can, however little it might be.

WOW THIS NEWS JUST KEEPS GETTING BIGGER AND BIGGER. The developer could also include an unexpected bonus in this project and that is The ACC HALL OF CHAMPIONS & MUSEUM


Downtown developer could build Atlantic Coast Conference Hall of Fame


Print Email this Article By Donald W. Patterson
Staff Writer

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GREENSBORO — A potential $150 million downtown development could include an unexpected bonus — a possible site for the Atlantic Coast Conference Hall of Champions.

Downtown officials involved in talks with the unidentified development company said the firm would consider including space for the $23 million ACC museum in its plans — if the project gets built.

"You have a bunch of 'ifs' there," said Ray Gibbs, the president of Downtown Greensboro Inc. "If (the developer) would come to Greensboro; if they would build this project; if the ACC (museum) would come there. ... If you factor them together, it's a gigantic 'if.'"

The project, which is still in the discussion phase, could include a mix of restaurants and entertainment venues; office, residential and retail spaces; a high-rise hotel; and the museum.

"I think the ACC museum would be a fine complement to this project," Gibbs said. "If the museum did come about, I feel that downtown should be highly considered for its location."

To date, groups pushing for the museum — an interactive complex that would cover ACC sports — have focused their attention on the Canada Dry bottling plant next to the Greensboro Coliseum complex.

The City Council will discuss possible acquisition of the property Tuesday.

The Canada Dry site is owned by Susan Robinson, the wife of News & Record Editor John Robinson, and her brothers, W. Hardy Spence and Royall Spence III.

Museum backers note that a consultant's study rejected several downtown sites and determined that a location near the coliseum would be best for the hall.

They also say rehabbing the bottling plant would boost the city's efforts to revitalize High Point Road, which runs past the site.

Even so, Marc Bush, the president of the Greensboro Sports Commission, says a location in the proposed downtown development should get some consideration.

"You never close yourself out to ideas or opportunities," Bush said. "You have got to be flexible. But I hope before six months our train has already left the station."

In addition, others say, the museum would have no money to lease space from a private developer.

Downtown leaders say they want to see the museum somewhere in the center city, even if the proposed development doesn't materialize.

"Everybody I know (downtown) talks about it," said Milton Kern, a center city developer. "They are 100 percent behind it."

Kern and others think a downtown location would produce more economic spin-off than a site near the interstate.

They say that visitors who come downtown are more likely to visit other attractions in the center city and perhaps stay overnight.

"It gives us an opportunity to show off our downtown," said Roy Carroll, who is converting the former Wachovia Tower on North Elm Street into a condo-office-restaurant complex. "We already have some excellent cultural venues downtown."

Gibbs says putting the museum in a new complex downtown comes with lots of questions.

"Who would be the owner? Who would be the operator? How would it be funded?" he said. "I don't know any of those things."

The development company is considering four sites downtown, plus an unknown number in other cities.

But Gibbs thinks the project, which could range from $50 million to $150 million, is Greensboro's to lose.

"I think we have a good chance," Gibbs said. "But if we have trouble putting the land together or if the (governmental) approval processes are too tedious or take too long, I think they will go somewhere else.

"They would like to move as quickly as they can. ... (But) I think they want to do something here."

There are moments in every city's history that define the next 5, 10, or even 20 years of that city's evolution and/or transition. This is one of those moments, at least the way it sounds. If this HUGE investment is Greensboro's to lose, then I don't see any reasons for the city not jumping with both feet into this deal, assuming there are no strings attached, or any hidden risks... Well, there are always some risks involved, but you get the picture... It sounds like the domino effect that we see in other cities. One project brings more investments, even if they are proposed by the same developer.

There are moments in every city's history that define the next 5, 10, or even 20 years of that city's evolution and/or transition. This is one of those moments, at least the way it sounds. If this HUGE investment is Greensboro's to lose, then I don't see any reasons for the city not jumping with both feet into this deal, assuming there are no strings attached, or any hidden risks... Well, there are always some risks involved, but you get the picture... It sounds like the domino effect that we see in other cities. One project brings more investments, even if they are proposed by the same developer.Ohh!! it is even the smallest version is a winner.If the leaders in Greensboro can come together and show leadership at the next level and get the LARGER version of this plan then I see Greensboro returning too it's old form when it along with Winston-Salem wore the leading Metro area in the State this project can be that BIG am Telling you!!! you can build off several concepts in Greensboro,the city is a Sleeping Giant.

Ohh!! it is even the smallest version is a winner.If the leaders in Greensboro can come together and show leadership at the next level and get the LARGER version of this plan then I see Greensboro returning too it old form when it along with Winston - Salem wore the leading Metro area in the State this project can be that BIG am Telling you!!! you can build of several concepts in Greensboro,the city is a Sleeping Giant.

RALBOI....you are killing me. You are such a big tease LOL. I wish I knew what you know but I do understand why you wont talk. But if this project is great as you say it is, Greensboro is really in for a SHOCK! I think it would be one of those surreal moments where you scratch your head and say....."This is in Greensboro?" But im also sure such a project would attract opposition from some of those neighborhoods that surround downtown. They were trying to fight the ballpark and im sure thats small potatoes compared to whats being proposed.

I think you guys are going a little far with this personally, seeing how it is very pre-mature and don't even know if you've won it yet, but whatever. Cheer it up G-boro. :)

It will all boil down to money. If this project is as big as we hope - RALBOI's input on this was much appreciated - it will be very hard for local leaders to turn down such an investment because of loud mouth's and NIMBY's. Some concerns may be rational, but most of the times it is the mob speaking, not the common sense. If Greensboro's leaders exercise the latter, there will be many reasons for us to celebrate.

We'll be watching this project as closely as we can. I know how tempting it is wanting to speak about something so great, but being forced to keep silent - that's for you RALBOI ;)

I think you guys are going a little far with this personally, seeing how it is very pre-mature and don't even know if you've won it yet, but whatever. Cheer it up G-boro. :)

I dont think no one is popping the champaigne corks just yet. I think we are all aware that there are some challenges and some big ifs. to look at it on the bright side, the project is in Greensboro's favor. we just have to overcome those challeges before we start to celebrate. Alot of things can happen. The developers could decide not to go on with plans for this development anywhere. We just wont know. but to have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars just to do a feasiblity study says that is REALLY a big deal and based on the hype, its beyond my imagination of what this could be. I mean its almost scary LOL. We know some of the details but that doesnt say much. Its like looking at the parts of a machine. Just because you can see the parts doesnt mean you know what the machine is.

^^Same for here in Greenville. We have a potentially massive development coming here that will cost $2.4 billion and we're not even sure if it will happen yet or not, even though the chances are very good right now that it will. Good luck to you Greensboro. Hope you get what you want. :)

I sure hope Greensboro gets this project. Although I live in Winston-Salem now. I graduated from High School in Greensboro. I always like to see any city in North Carolina do well.

Ohh!! it is even the smallest version is a winner.If the leaders in Greensboro can come together and show leadership at the next level and get the LARGER version of this plan then I see Greensboro returning too it old form when it along with Winston - Salem wore the leading Metro area in the State this project can be that BIG am Telling you!!! you can build of several concepts in Greensboro,the city is a Sleeping Giant.

I think you're being a bit naive with the speculation RALBOI.

^^I agree. I think some people are going a little far with this whole thing. We might have a $2.4 billion development coming to the city I live in and we're not getting as excited as you guys are over something that is 1/20 of the size and cost as ours.

^^I agree. I think some people are going a little far with this whole thing. We might have a $2.4 billion development coming to the city I live in and we're not getting as excited as you guys are over something that is 1/20 of the size and cost as ours.

You were getting VERY excited over this when you thought Greenville was competing for the same project.

I think you're being a bit naive with the speculation RALBOI.

I dont know if id call him naive. after all, you and I dont know whats going on. Hes in the know about whats going on. Its hard to call someone naive about something when you dont know the details. This thing could be bigger than we all imagine if it happens. But the whole thing may not even happen.

I think you're being a bit naive with the speculation RALBOI.No disrespect, but I don't care what you think to be Honest, but from here on out my mouth is shut about anything else concerning this project.Greensboro goodluck !!

^^I agree. I think some people are going a little far with this whole thing. We might have a $2.4 billion development coming to the city I live in and we're not getting as excited as you guys are over something that is 1/20 of the size and cost as ours.
G-man, please stop harassing these folks about something that is not even related at this point. Although your signature says, "maturity is overrated," at least a tiny bit of maturity would be nice to have and show. People might easily or eventually be turned off by your exciting news if you keep pestering them to death. Let 'em be and let this thing develop on its own for everyone's sakes, please.:nuts: :lol:

Nothing wrong with some speculating and imagining.

...but i'm party boy. I'm supposed to do this kind of stuff. :lol:

Nothing wrong with some speculating and imagining.


I agree. There is nothing wrong with speculation....its very fun thinking of the possibilties wether it happens or not.

^^Yeah, but Disney? Happy Cinco De Mayo.

I agree. There is nothing wrong with speculation....its very fun thinking of the possibilties wether it happens or not.
That is really what these online forums are about when it comes down to the heart of the discussions. People love to imagine and express creative ideas, and that is what must happen before every new development can be built and enjoyed in real life. The same can be said about "mystery" projects like this one. Even though we don't know precisely what it is, we are able to have fun imagining what it could be and in the process, we are developing ideas that may be used in future developments. It is a virtual think tank.:)

^^Yeah, but Disney? Happy Cinco De Mayo.

nothing wrong with imagination but who says it CAN'T happen? How do you know thats not what it is? This may not be Disney but one thing is for sure, its a themed development being proposed by an anomynous Florida development company, with entertainment geared towards families, children, singles and several states are after this project.

^^Themed development=Bumper cars and go karts.

^^Yeah, but Disney?

G-man, for once I would love to see you present your OWN viewpoint in a debate, using your OWN references to back you up. If you disagree with cityboi, why not share exactly what reasons you have that support your position? He has shown why he thinks it may indeed be Disney-related, and for what it's worth, I think it was a pretty decent argument. I was unaware of these new Disney urban centers until someone brought them up in one of these discussions. While it may have absolutely nothing to do with Disney, there is no evidence to prove it doesn't at this point.

^^Ok. There is no way in hell something Disney related will only cost $50-$150 million. If they were even thinking about looking somewhere in the Carolina's for a development, you would know about it by now.

^^Ok. There is no way in hell something Disney related will only cost $50-$150 million. If they were even thinking about looking somewhere in the Carolina's for a development, you would know about it by now.

Show me evidence that proves Disney would not build something for $150 million in another southern city. Why would we have to know about them looking at specific locations?

^^Forget it. You'll just get me banned here too.

... but from here on out my mouth is shut about anything else concerning this project.Greensboro goodluck !!

I think that's a good idea. Someone who TRULY had the inside scoop on something that is supposed to be that big would not even venture where you've gone.

I think that's a good idea. Someone who TRULY had the inside scoop on something that is supposed to be that big would not even venture where you've gone.You mean you THINK, because you surly as hell don't know that for sure, by the way nice try smartguy.:lol:

^^That's it? You're not going to tell us how many stories the building(s) would be?

RALBOI, is your former screename ejohnson?

Where is everybody? Come on Greensboro residents. You have a potentially huge development coming to your city and you're not even getting excited over it.

Weren't you just making criticisms not too long ago about people "going a little far" with their enthusiasm? LOL

It's nothing but a waiting game now; just about everything that can be said has been said up to this point.

^^I have to pat my head, rub my belly, and hop on one foot for you because I was wrong about something. Right, Ralboi? ;)

I wish I could understand how a positive thread can turn into an endless debate. Let's accept the fact that something big may happen in DT Greensboro and wait for the good news, or be prepared for a negative answer, or whatever. Let's remain positive towards each other and the city of Greensboro.

^^I like your penguin. :)

I wish I could understand how a positive thread can turn into an endless debate. Let's accept the fact that something big may happen in DT Greensboro and wait for the good news, or be prepared for a negative answer, or whatever. Let's remain positive towards each other and the city of Greensboro.

always the voice of reason:okay:

^^I have to pat my head, rub my belly, and hop on one foot for you because I was wrong about something. Right, Ralboi? ;)Boy you crazy!:lol:

After reading the linked articles on forum, a poster on a local Greensboro blog called the Disney Executive offices and got nowhere fast. He then called the Sentinel reporter (who reported the story about Disney building hotel/entertainment complexes in downtowns) to see if had any other information. He did not...

But the reporter did say this about the Greensboro/Disney speculation after the blog poster explained what he knew... "It wouldn't surprise me one bit."

Amazingly, a few people who strongly opposed the downtown ballpark, actually like the idea of an Disney entertainment complex.

article
http://www.topix.net/content/trb/1116238269327808190530730829633186064765

^^Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber you go and do something like this
























...and I totally redeem you for it. :lol:

^^
You must have watched "Dumb and Dumber" many times :rofl:

^^Just when I thought you couldn't get any dumber you go and do something like this




Regardless, whoever made the calls is not too bright. If Disney is planning something for DT Greensboro, i'm sure that they will be put off by curious calls from private citizens. This may hurt Greensboro's chances more than it will help. Leave it alone and let the public leaders do their job.

^^...and I totally redeem you for it. :lol:

It seems to be that as long as city leaders push for this, the developer is interested in Greensboro. Im sure they would rather remain anomynous but I dont think that would change things that have already been put in motion. The fact that they are anomynous make you suspicious about who they are.

here are clues that hint that it could be Disney (not saying that is them but there are alot of coincidences)

Here are some clues indicating this could be a Disney related project:

Here are some clues indicating this could be a Disney related project:

1) anonymous Florida Development company is behind the project (Disney Development Company?- a subsidary and community development arm of Walt Disney)

2) several southern states are competeing for this development (Greensboro is the front runner)

3) Disney announced 3 months ago that it was thinking about building themed hotel/entertainment complexes in downtowns. (Greensboro's rumored project has a highrise hotel /entertainment complex......btw what is in this project that makes it feasible to build a highrise hotel downtown? just a few years ago hotels werent doing good downtown) These "Disney Downtown Districts" would be modeled after the Downtown Disney parks in Orlando and Anaheim which have ACM theaters, House of Blues, ESPN Zone and other venues for families and Children.

4) the Development is described as having an entertainment complex with with attractions for families, children and singles (VERY DISNEY LIKE)

5) hudreds of thousands of dollars were spent to do feasibilty studies. (Why on earth would it take that much money for a project in downtown Greensboro?)

6) The Florida development company is pondering wether Greensboro can support this project (indicating the large nature of the project)

7) The company is looking at Greensboro because of its central location between Charlotte and Raleigh. (indicating this project is expected to draw people from around the Piedmont)

8) The company's decision to look at Greensboro also has to do with the city's history which indicates a theme development. (American Revolution theme? ACC?)

9) Project appears to be a tourist destination (the developer wants to include the ACC Hall of Champions and Museum with this project)

10) The project has been descibed as HUGE and MASSIVE for Greensboro

11) an Orlando news reporter said in reference to the Disney/Greensboro speculation "I wouldn't be surprised"

12) This project is secret as hell!

^^I could of sworn I saw this posted somewhere else. Oh yeah, now I remember.

its on the charlotte.com board as well.

its on the charlotte.com board as well.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/22/35395502_87027ade35.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/29499298_b61b83c8d1_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/38/77437731_953fade990.jpg:):):)

^^Yep. Somebody's going too far with this now.

i wonder why this wasnt posted yet?

Tuesday, May 8, 2007

Officials discuss Canada Dry site

GREENSBORO -- The City Council today told City Manager Mitch Johnson that he can continue examining the Canada Dry property.

Groups pushing for an ACC museum have mentioned the Canada Dry bottling plant next to the Greensboro Coliseum complex as one potential location. Under one scenario, the city would purchase the property.

http://news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070508/NEWSREC0101/70508017

apparently, the coliseum group is trying to rush this deal through for some reason(maybe it has something to do with the announcement of a downtown hall of fame)...I read about it but there is no garuantee the hall of fame will be built next to the coliseum.

Planners get ready for greenway loop around downtown Greensboro

good news for downtown....I attended Action Greensboro's groundbreakers meeting and it was highlighted that construction would likely start on the first leg of the downtown Greenway loop next year in time for the city's 200th birthday. It will be the first and only greenway that loops around a downtown in this state.

Part of the greenway will have outdoor classrooms which will also border Greensboro College. The proposal on Murrow Boulevard is to reduce the existing traffic lanes from six to four, converting two of the lanes into a trail. The trail would be planted with 1,960 trees in recognition of February 1, 1960 when four young men walked from NCA&T to Woolworth's to start the Sit-in Movement. Also, bulbs would be planted so that every February 1, the area would be in full bloom. There will be sign markers along the Greenway which tells you when you are entering a particular downtown neighborhood or district. For example, there will be a large sign that says "Southside" when you enter the Southside Neighborhood or "Morehead" when you enter the Morehead district. Townhomes, retail and cafes will be built along the greenway on the southern end.

The Greenway would include:

- water features (ponds & fountians)
- biking trail
- public pavillion
- tennis courts
- multi-purpose sports building
- jr olympic outdoor pool
- several mini parks along the greenway
- garden maze
- play lawns for children
- places for art displays
- and a number of other recreational attractions for downtown residents.


Its going to be more than just a green trail. This is a pretty ambitous and unique greenway planned for the center-city. Its the best greenway plan ive ever seen.

here is a map that shows what all will be incorporated in the greenway.

http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/...workdiagram.pdf (http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/networkdiagram.pdf)

here are some sketches

(one mile entry)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/1mileentry.pdf

(two mile mid upper)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/...ilemidupper.pdf (http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/2milemidupper.pdf)

(three mile middle)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/...3milemiddle.pdf (http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/3milemiddle.pdf)

(five mile bottom)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/...5milebottom.pdf (http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/5milebottom.pdf)

(concept diagrams)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/...tsyDiagrams.pdf (http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/ArtsyDiagrams.pdf)

(Market Street)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/AXON.pdf

(signage possibilties)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/EGDboard10.pdf

(Fisher Section)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/fishersec.pdf

(magic section)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/magicsec.pdf

(Edward R Murrow Blvd)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/murrowblvd.pdf

(Murrow Section)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/murrowsec.pdf

(outdoor classroom)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/...orClassroom.pdf (http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/OutdoorClassroom.pdf)

(site furnishings)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/...nishings%20.pdf (http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/sitefurnishings%20.pdf)

It will take me months to go through all that material :lol: This is a very good step towards making GSO a better place. Good work :okay:

It will take me months to go through all that material :lol: This is a very good step towards making GSO a better place. Good work :okay:

Almost forgot to mention that a downtown school is proposed to be built within the greenway. :)

a greenway like this is the answer to those downtown freeway loops.:)

This is pretty exciting news. It will greatly enhance the city's quality of life. If the city only had a river running through it...

(signage possibilties)
http://www.actiongreensboro.org/documents/ppt/EGDboard10.pdf

The logo at the very bottom to the left reminds me of Greenville's logo (http://www.greatergreenville.com/enews/DTShopping/Images/logocolor.jpg).

...
The logo at the very bottom to the left reminds me of Greenville's logo (http://www.greatergreenville.com/enews/DTShopping/Images/logocolor.jpg).

That is exactly what I was going to post a little while ago. I personally love creativity in logos such as these.

This project looks absolutely wonderful. It is precisely what cities need to be working hard to enhance, since it increases the overall quality of life. Greenville is currently working on a similar plan (http://www.greatergreenville.com/city_services/GreenwaysSlideShow/index.asp), although I am unsure whether it has reached the level of planning as Greensboro's yet. Visualizations make a world of difference to the general public. Very nice to see this plan coming along so well. :okay:

I knew that G looked famiiar

one of the sites being considered for the secret massive downtown project is the former Chevrolet property which is the large vacant lot in the foreground of this photo. That also includes the land where the tan building is sitting on which is next to the ballpark. Lots of potential for a few highrises and a number of midrise buildings

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/192/458998424_7da6e37115_b.jpg

DT Greensboro has a lot of places that can be used for high-rise developments. This will require for the city officials to escape the syndrome that Raleigh's officials have: focus on main street. Elm Str is a done deal, meaning that it looks great and not much improvement can be made, IMHO. Now it is time to realize that the streets parallel to Elm deserve some attention, and focus on creating some depth. I think that the location in the photo above would be ideal and could help push development to the NW edge of downtown.

More details mentioned about this mystery project...apparently several out of town developers are considering projects downtown including the one thats considered MASSIVE. The projects not only includes one hotel but two hotels and both would be luxury hotels which means they wont be your typical Marriott or Hilton. One would be a 50-room boutique establishment and the other luxury hotel would be a high-rise with rooms ranging from 250 to 500 rooms. The high-rise would be part of the largest project ever in downtown Greensboro.....very interesting that this is a luxury hotel. Disney's urban hotels btw would be luxury hotels....we are getting closser to finding out what these developments are. But the big story today is that multiple BIG development by separate developers are eyeing downtown and it could be the combination of these developments that make it work. This is really starting to sound bigger and bigger! But there is something MAJOR going on to have two LUXURY hotels projects. especially when just a few years ago hotels were doing poorly downtown. Luxury hotels in downtown Greensboro, especially with that many rooms just doesnt make sense unless there is a MAJOR tourist/entertainment attraction involved here. The highrise luxury hotel could potentially have more rooms then Greensboro largest luxury hotel Grandover Resort and could be larger than the downtown Marriott and half the size of the Sheraton Four Seasons. Once again Ray Gibbs of DGI said that this project is Greensboro's to lose...so as long as city leaders step up to the plate, this project is likely ours


Meaning of project pondered




GREENSBORO — The prospect of a major downtown development — the price tag could be as much as $150 million — sends a strong message about the long-sought recovery of the center city.

But while there is optimism that an unidentified, out-of-state firm would consider downtown for such a project, it is tempered by concern over the state Greensboro still finds itself in.

Downtown’s track record in landing outside investment is short. And the city’s economic numbers in recent years have showed weakness.

"This is your big chance," said John Gann, the head of Gann Associates, a Chicago-area development consultant. "There’s a matter of what you do with it."

To be sure, this latest deal might never happen; the developers are still in the early stages of looking at sites between Virginia and Florida.

But that Greensboro has at least landed attention is worth noting, local leaders say.

"I think it says we have come a long way," said Bruce Cantrell, a principal with J. Hyatt Hammond Associates, a downtown architectural firm. "Now, we are optimistic about $50 million-plus projects."

Four out-of-town developers currently have projects under consideration for the center city. Two of those include hotels.

"They are both still in the very early stages," said Ray Gibbs, the president of Downtown Greensboro Inc. "Neither of them has any type of contracts on land or architectural drawings."

Both would be luxury. One would be a 50-room boutique establishment; the other, a high-rise with 250 to 500 rooms.

The latter, if it gets built, would be part of the largest project ever downtown.

That project also could include restaurant and entertainment venues; office, retail and residential spaces; and a possible site for the ACC Hall of Champions, a conference sports museum.

If the city lands it, the development could go on one of four downtown sites; a representative from the development firm visited Greensboro again last week.

"A major developer sees merit in what we have created," said John Lomax, a downtown developer. "To me, it’s sort of exciting. It is what we dreamed of from the beginning."

Interest of out-of-town developers in downtown isn’t new. It’s been going on for years. But so far, out-of-towners have poured less than
$10 million into the center city landscape.

Over the past four years, seven outside developers have considered projects downtown. Only one, a $4 million residential project, got built.

Gibbs would not say why the other projects — one of which was a hotel — fell through, saying only that there were multiple reasons.

But those numbers could change significantly in the months ahead.

"If this developer doesn’t want to do a project, there will be others who will come," said Ian Kipp, a vice president for the N.C. Downtown Development Association. "You are certainly making headway. I think you have picked up steam."

Many, including retired UNCG economist Don Jud, would say it’s about time.

"I think we are five to seven years behind the curve," Jud said. "We’ve been lagging (compared to) what other cities have done."

Durham, for example, has a smaller downtown than Greensboro, but it already has landed four projects at or in excess of $150 million.

From 1994 through 2010, Durham will tally $1 billion in downtown economic development. By comparison, since 1999, Greensboro has logged approximately $250 million.

Jud blames hard economic times for Greensboro’s lag.
He says massive job losses in the textile, apparel and furniture industries between 2001 and 2003 caused major developers to look elsewhere.

"Now, Greensboro has started growing again," Jud said. "We have started to turn around.... I think the interest of these other developers means they must see the same kind of potential in Greensboro."

Some argue that the interest by outsiders signals that downtown has turned a corner.

But Gibbs, who will be leaving DGI on June 1 to take a job with a private firm near Charlotte, sees it a little less crisply.

"We are starting to turn on a curve," he said. "(But) we’ve not made the turn yet."

He has described the major project looking at downtown as Greensboro’s to lose.

That puts considerable pressure on local governments, which might be asked to provide incentives in the form of streets, sidewalks and a parking deck.

"I have gotten better vibes on this one than I have before," he said, referring to the reaction of local officials. "But there are no assurances."

Could this still be Disney?

David Hoggard and Reporter Scott Powers from the Orlando Sentenial:

David: I was, however, able to contact the Sentinel reporter who covered that investor’s meeting and relate to him the rumors about the prospects of Disney coming to Greensboro to try out some of their new ideas. I described our resurging center city, the availability of large tracts of land downtown and how we are conveniently located smack between New York and Miami.

Scott: “It wouldn’t surprise me one bit”, said reporter Scott Powers, “They want quick entry into new markets. What you describe seems just what they were looking for.”


News& Record:

"A major developer sees merit in what we have created," said John Lomax, a downtown developer. "To me, it’s sort of exciting. It is what we dreamed of from the beginning."

If we are talking about luxury hotels being a part of this project...it really does make you wonder what kind of shopping, restaurant and entertainment establishment that would be a part of this development. If people can afford to pay high prices in two luxury hotels, they can afford to spend their money at upscale stores/restuarants/entertainment venues.

NC A&T State University and The University of North Carolina at
Greensboro break ground on research park

The Business Journal of the Greater Triad AreaMay 17, 2007


N.C. A&T State University and UNC-Greensboro broke ground Wednesday on the South Campus of their new, shared Gateway University Research Park.

The ceremony took place near the site of the 75-acre campus on Lee Street near I-40.


The two schools have developed a $250 million master plan for development of the research park during the next 20 years, between the South Campus and the North Campus, which is located on the former site of the N.C. School of the Deaf on Summit Avenue. They expect the park will contribute at least that much to the region's economy over that period.

The first tenant of the South Campus will be the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The site is also the planned location of the UNCG and A&T's proposed Joint School of Nanoscience and Nanoengineering, which is currently seeking funding in the legislature.

Present for the groundbreaking was UNCG Chancellor Patricia Sullivan, A&T interim chancellor Lloyd Hackley, UNC System President Erskine Bowles and representatives from Greensboro and other Triad cities.

Gateway University Research Park website along with vitual fly through

http://www.gatewayurp.com/index.html

renderings of the south campus
http://www.gatewayurp.com/downloads/South.Campus.Detail1.jpg
http://www.gatewayurp.com/downloads/South.Campus.Aerial.jpg

rendering of the north campus
http://www.gatewayurp.com/downloads/North.Aerial.jpg

There will be two huge signs that are gateway arches, one over Lee Street and the other over the entry road. The one over Lee Street is actually a pedestrian walkover in disguise.

Looks like a nice size campus. I liked the renderings, too, although the last link didn't work for me :(

I really like the fact that its going to have a nanotech school.

Have we learned nothing from RTP? :ohno:

Nanotechnology is going to boom in the future. If you want to have a successful research center/campus, it appears to me that nanotechnology is a must!!!

Nanotechnology is going to boom in the future. If you want to have a successful research center/campus, it appears to me that nanotechnology is a must!!!

I agree while biotech has pretty much saturated the market, nanotech appears to be the focus with plenty of opportunities for research parks like in Greensboro. While Winston is a biotech center I think Greensboro will be a center for nanotechnology.

here is an aerial of sites considered for the secret development. There are others but both these chevrolet lots are considered for the mega development. They would have to be combined. The project might also include the green grass lot (with one building) to the right of the bottom Chevrotlet lot. Also the former county tax building property. (brown building just to the left of the words Eugene) I'll bet one of the local developers partnering with the Florida Developer is Roy Carroll since he owns the former tax property.

http://www.downtownstadium.org/aerialsite.jpg

lets recap. The project could consist of

1) two luxury hotels (50-room boutique and 250-500 room high-rise)One note: if the high-rise is built with 500 rooms it would be the second largest hotel in Greensboro after the 1,014 Sheraton Four Seasons.

2) entertainment complex (entertainment venues for families, children & singles)

3) ACC Hall of Champions & Museum

4) shopping/retail

5) restaurants

6) residential

7) office

The details are kind of hard to figure out because supposedly there is the MASSIVE development then there are 4 other big developments that could make this one mega development. Several out of town developers are involved here including the Florida development company. Several states including a number of cities are competing for this development and Greensboro is indeed the frontrunner. Apparently the developer is looking for a regional draw as one of the major reason Greensboro is a frontrunner has to do with its location between Charlotte and Raleigh which means these are major entertainment venues.

That aerial gives me a good idea about the location. Thanks for posting it here.

you are welcome....this seem like its going to be a compact development and to fit all that stuff on these lots, that means we should see alot of verticle development here...dont forget their needs to be land for a city parking deck.

More sites for this project have been identified. The ones that we know of are:

1) Bellemeade Village Site: which is a big tract of land next to the ballpark that is spilt by Smith Street.

2) Duke Power Site: next to the Childrens museum at the corner of Church St and Friendly Avenue. That site would include land across the street between Friendly Ave and Market Streets

Two more sites have been identified:

1) The big parking lot on Washington Street across the street from the depot (multi-modal hub) . The site is bounded by Washington, Davie and Church Street with the News & Record to the north.

2) County land (Guilford Behavioral Center) which is directly south of the ballpark and id bounded by Friendly Ave and Eugene and Bellemeade Streets

Another detail that has been revealed is that the scaled up version could produce as much as 400 permanant jobs and that the developer had looked at Charlotte and Raleigh but saw similar projects in the works in those cities. Again Ray Gibbs of Downtown Greensboro, Inc stated that if thr local government can do things in a timely fashion, they will build here. The developer would ask for incentives in the form of sidewalk street infrastructure and a parking deck. While the developer is from Florida, the project is being spearhead by a local unidentified developer. (This cant be Roy Carroll because this local developer has never done deals downtown) I think all sites are great sites. two of the sites would create synergy around the ballpark. One site would be next to the Children's Museum in the cultural district and the other near the depot which I like alot because in a way the hotels in the development would become hub hotels for the depot where there will eventually be commutter rail and high speed rail. The depot is already the hub for Amtrak, taxis, city and coach bus. One thing that struck me was that the developer said they are looking for a town that wants them and is willing to make it happen. that comment alone tells the potetnial magnitude of the project and that the very nature of the project could be bigger than we imagine.


Downtown project could generate jobs

GREENSBORO — A potential $150 million project under consideration for downtown could produce 300 to 400 jobs for the center city, many of which would be full time.

Even a scaled-back development of $50 million could create up to 100 jobs, say leaders trying to bring the project to fruition.

"That's one of the benefits, the job creation," said Ray Gibbs, the president of Downtown Greensboro Inc. "The other benefit would be the number of people (the project) would bring into downtown that would be spending money. That's where the biggest benefit is."

The development, which could be the largest ever downtown, could include restaurants and entertainment venues; residential, office and retail space; and a high-rise hotel.

While talk of the project has spread across the city, much remains for it to become reality.

Complicated real estate deals like this often fail for a variety of reasons: financing, environmental issues, permitting, leasing, costs or a combination of troubles.

Gibbs said Friday that the project is spearheaded by an unidentified local developer who wants to bring in several outside companies to finance the deal.

"He could never (financially) do a project of this scale," Gibbs said of the developer, who has not done any previous deals downtown. "But he sought out the people who could help him do it. ... The dollars are not Greensboro dollars."

Gibbs also identified two additional sites being considered for the project.

One is the Guilford Center at 201 N. Eugene St., where county government provides behavioral health and disability services.

The property is bounded by Friendly Avenue and Eugene and Bellemeade streets.

The other is the southern portion of the News & Record property, an area bounded by Church, Washington and Davie streets that includes employee parking.

Gibbs said none of the property owners have met with the developer.

Efforts to reach Guilford County Manager David McNeill were unsuccessful Friday.

Robin Saul, the News & Record's president and publisher, said Friday that the company would be willing to consider appropriate uses for its land provided they produced a strong economic impact for the community.

"We want to be a good community partner at the right time and for the right reasons," Saul said. "We want the community to benefit."

Two other sites previously identified are the former Bellemeade Village property near First Horizon Park and the Weaver Foundation property at the northeast corner of Church Street and Friendly Avenue, plus land across Friendly that is owned by the city of Greensboro and Lincoln National Corp.

Gibbs said each of the four sites is large enough to accommodate a $150 million project.

At least one of the sites, the former Bellemeade Village property, could also be targeted by another developer.

The Bellemeade land is owned by Jim and Steve Jones, who backed away last year from plans to develop a $60 million to $100 million complex of shops, condos and apartments on the site.

"We have had a lot of interest (in the land) since we stopped our plans," Jim Jones said Friday. "But that is not something I can comment on right now."

Gibbs said the developers are still looking at other sites outside of Greensboro.

"They looked at Raleigh and Charlotte and saw similar types of developments that were happening there but weren't happening here," he said. "So we are more of an untapped market."

Gibbs said downtown stands a good chance to land some portion of the unnamed project. "If we can assemble things here in a timely fashion, I think they will do it here," Gibbs said. "If they can't do it quickly and easily, then they will do it (elsewhere).

"They are looking for a town that wants them and is willing to make it happen." Gibbs has said that the developers may ask the city for incentives in the form of improvements such as a parking deck, streets and sidewalks.

I have out lined the sites. My guess is that the smaller the site, the more vertical the project

http://www.downtownstadium.org/megasite5.jpg

http://www.downtownstadium.org/megasite1.jpg

http://www.downtownstadium.org/megasite2.jpg

http://www.downtownstadium.org/megasite3.jpg

depending on how big this could get, the triangular piece of property to the left of the site could be included
http://www.downtownstadium.org/megasite4.jpg

Good work :okay: Now we can all get a much better idea about the sites and their potential. I like the ballpark and Depot areas more for such a big development.

The depot site appears to be the smallest of all the sites and a scaled down version of the project would go perfect there. However Ray Gibbs said even the large version could fit there but my thinking is that in order to have all that stuff that suppose to be part of the project plus a parking deck, a large scale version on that site would really be TALL. as ralboi said the plans differ in height and size but all plans would at the very least include a highrise hotel so we should get at least one tower out of this regardless of which plan is selected. A large version could mean mutiple towers or one REALLY tall tower thats like a hotel, residential and office all in one building like the planned suburban Westin in Raleigh except an entertainment complex would adjoin it. There are just so many ways this thing could be laid out and who knows, a few plans may have underground levels to maximize space.

Another thing I like about all the sites is their location away from Elm Street. Development should be all over downtown and not just concentrated on one main street. Plus with a highrise hotel in the project, Greensboro's skyline would be more spread out making it look bigger. Thats one thing I admire about Winston's skyline is that most of the buildings arent just concentrated in a 2 block cluster but are spreadout showing downtown's true size. In Greensboro they are clustered together and it makes the city's downtown look small. Its good to have tall towers spreadout with some good infill 10-12 story buildings in between. Viusally, Greensboro's skyline could support a tower as high as 35 or even 40-stories but nothing higher than that because it would stand out like a sore thumb. Its possible that one of the plans could have a tower that tall in it because there is certainly enough going on in this potential development to have a building that tall. But as a rule of thumb, a building should never be more than twice the height of the tallest buildings.

Beth from Greensboring.com has an idea what this development might be...it may not an urban Downtown Disney but Disney's arch rival "Universal Citywalk". Her idea is that since Universal owns Wet' N Wild and that a Wet' N Wild waterpark is in Greensboro, Orlando based Universal could be planning a "real life" Ciity Walk entertainment district similar to what Disney is planning to do. Beth says it makes sense because of the Triad's deep roots in the film industry. She say Universal is rumored to be planning a third American themepark and according to Beth maybe a complimentary downtown entertainment complex...now PLEASE dont put words in my mouth folks! but that does kinda tie in with what my source told me..."it has to do with the area's history" We know the development company is in Florida and there is specualtion this company is in Orlando based on a source. One other thing. There are only two Wet' N Wild Water parks in the country. The one in Greensboro and the one in Orlando which is a part of Universal Studios Florida. Universal has thememparks in two of the country's movie making states. Rumors are that Universal is planning a third US themempark and North Carolina is the country's 2nd largest movie making state. If Universal is going to build a third theme park it would make sense to build it in an area or state known for film making. LOL maybe that what downtown Greensboro club owner Joey Medaloni meant when he said in 10 years he could see Greensboro becoming the Los Angeles of the east coast!


From Beth

"City walk is owned by Universal!, Wet-N-Wild who currently owns Emerald Pointe is owned by Universal. Not only that but, Universal has been actively expanding it's theme parks from Dubai to Korea, and has been rumored to be searching for a location for a 3rd American theme park. Coupled with North Carolina's film business, and being the second largest movie producing state in the country. Could City Walk Greensboro coupled with Wet-N-Wild, be the beginnings of Universal Studios Carolina? "

http://greensboring.com/viewtopic.php?t=5442

according to Twin City, a newspaper in the Triad called Triad Talk, says the project not only could exceed $150 million but also includes international developers and could have a cluster of highrises/midrises. im trying to find the article now. If true that would confirm what I was told that the largest version could dramatically alter Greensboro's skyline.

I just can't wait for this project to be revealed :) I hope it is really BIG!!!

apparently Matthew is getting info too...he says the mega project also includes a downtown convention center as well. lol all non Greensboro residents are finding this out before me LOL. Matthew says the developer will do anything to get it built in Greensboro so the city shouldnt go overboard with incentives. Matthew said that expensive feasibilty studies were being done to see if this development could attract people as far away as Fayetteville and even Greenville, SC

This proposal deserves incentives from the city, particularly if it is as big as it sounds.

Yes, i'm going to drive from Greenville to Greensboro to look at a convention center. Thanks, but no thanks.

Yes, i'm going to drive from Greenville to Greensboro to look at a convention center. Thanks, but no thanks.
:tiasd:

^^We don't even have the one on the right. :lol:

^^We don't even have the one on the right. :lol:
lol smarty......the convention center is only part of it

another forumer from another site said he picked up this weeks Triad Business Journal and it talked more about this project

he says:
"this weeks "The Business Journal" has an awesome article about Project X. I picked one up this morning at Borders on H.P. road. It mentions a possible cluster of mid-high rise buildings, nondisclosure agreements that several city officials had to sign, creation of an all in one tourist/convention destination for the southeast region, Gibbs being retained to work on the project, and said that if and when plans are announced - peoples' "jaws are going to drop" ! Good Reading !!!"

All I can say is its about time. Greensboro has been the underdog so long....the city really does deserve this. Every city should have its shining moment and this could be the biggest change the city has seen in decades. This combined with the the soon to open FedEx Hub, new interstates and Honda Aircraft Company is going to put Greensboro on steroids.

It does seem odd to see me posting on Greensboro :lol:, but Cityboi would tell me if he had info on developments in Winston-Salem, so I told him at SSP Forum what info I had on this project. That post (I made at SSP) is a question and answer post, to answer the big questions posted on that thread. Usually, when someone posts that many details on a development or tells the paper, more information is released, so maybe my post will lead to more information? My source said we could know more in two or three months? No tenants are signed to this, so we really don't know what attractions it will have or what hotel brand we could see. Like Ray Gibbs said, it's too early. The study of population with-in around 100-150 miles of Greensboro will be used to convince possible tenants to lease retail space. It will be a "mixed-use" convention center and have more to do than just conventions/trade shows. It is designed to attract conventions during the week and families taking day trips on the weekend. I don't know what kind of impact this could have on Koury, High Point Road revitalization plans or the Coliseum though? It will be more competition for conventions in Greensboro. Since it is a convention center, I don't think they really need to wait on other tenants. All they really need is a hotel chain to break ground and I don't think they will have a problem finding one. Even if this doesn't attract the level of entertainment/retaurants they want, it will still be a great development, but as another forum member at SSP said, don't sign-over everything the city has for it. Pay for a parking deck and maybe some street improvements, but nothing else. This developer will build in Greensboro and it should move foward.

It does seem odd to see me posting on Greensboro :lol:, but Cityboi would tell me if he had info on developments in Winston-Salem, so I told him at SSP Forum what info I had on this project. That post (I made at SSP) is a question and answer post, to answer the big questions posted on that thread. Usually, when someone posts that many details on a development or tells the paper, more information is released, so maybe my post will lead to more information? My source said we could know more in two or three months? No tenants are signed to this, so we really don't know what attractions it will have or what hotel brand we could see. Like Ray Gibbs said, it's too early. The study of population with-in around 100-150 miles of Greensboro will be used to convince possible tenants to lease retail space. It will be a "mixed-use" convention center and have more to do than just conventions/trade shows. It is designed to attract conventions during the week and families taking day trips on the weekend. I don't know what kind of impact this could have on Koury, High Point Road revitalization plans or the Coliseum though? It will be more competition for conventions in Greensboro. Since it is a convention center, I don't think they really need to wait on other tenants. All they really need is a hotel chain to break ground and I don't think they will have a problem finding one. Even if this doesn't attract the level of entertainment/retaurants they want, it will still be a great development, but as another forum member at SSP said, don't sign-over everything the city has for it. Pay for a parking deck and maybe some street improvements, but nothing else. This developer will build in Greensboro and it should move foward.



AMEN to that MAtthew

One thing is for sure, Greensboro could TRULY use some significantly-sized convention space downtown, and if integrated with a bigger project, could showcase the city very nicely.

One thing is for sure, Greensboro could TRULY use some significantly-sized convention space downtown, and if integrated with a bigger project, could showcase the city very nicely.

I agree. and maybe there is room for two convention centers in Greensboro. I dont know. But if this projects is big as it seems, then the convention center will probablly have more convention space than the Koury if this is to be a Southeast tourist/convention destination. This will certainly bring the tourist to downtown and its better for a convnetion center to be downtown withing walkling distance to restaurants, and urban attractions. Convention planners look at stuf flike that. being near the depot is a plus too.

I think that DT Greensboro could benefit a lot from a nice urban convention center. My best wishes!!!

The project could now top $200 million. One thing that wont be a part of this development is the ACC museum. Now I dont know if that because city leaders are working on the coliseum site or what.

More details have emerged though. Ray Gibbs says that plans have progressed to the point that offers could be made on land within the next week to 10 days. Gibbs says he understood the skeptism because he was skeptical at first but he has worked with the project enough to know its real. even though he left DGI last week he will still work on this project because he said he may never have a chance in his life to work on something this big.

-The highrise luxury hotel is now 300 to 600 rooms.

-50 room luxury boutique hotel

- several of the entertainment venues could hold between 500 and 2,500 people. and the complex would have multiple restaurants (btw the average House of Blues seats over 2,000 people)

- residential units could be between 150 and 250 and inlcude rental units and luxury condos (another possible highrise in the project)

- alot more office space is envisioned (which means the potential for an office tower)

- an IMAX theater could be a part of this project

- also a convention center

- local, Florida and international developers are involved (very complex deal)


Numbers increase for project downtown


ADVERTISEMENT
GREENSBORO — The numbers keep growing. And so do the possibilities.
The latest investment projections for a proposed, as yet unidentified, megaproject downtown could now top $200 million.

"That’s around the limit to where (the developers) want to go," said Ray Gibbs, who stepped down Friday as president of Downtown Greensboro Inc. "I don’t think it would (go up)."

Previous reports had indicated the multibuilding complex — which could employ up to 400 people — could range between $50 million and
$150 million.

The project, which could be the largest ever downtown, could include restaurants and entertainment venues; residential, office and retail space; and a high-rise hotel.

"It’s just some options that we are looking at now that we weren’t looking at before," Gibbs said of the increased investment. "And there has been some interest from some additional (developers) to help grow it."

Gibbs said a preferred site has emerged from four under consideration, but he would not identify it.

He said plans have progressed to the point that offers to purchase will be sent out in the next week to 10 days.

"An offer to purchase certainly adds a layer of credibility," said Bruce Cantrell, a downtown architect and a member of the DGI board of directors, who stressed he could not confirm any details about the project. "If that’s the case, it is moving faster than I anticipated. That’s great news."

As the project has progressed, additional details have emerged:
l Depending on the site and the amount of investment, the project could range from three buildings to seven. No square footage estimates have been determined.

* The luxury hotel could have between 300 and 600 rooms.

* The entertainment venues, and there might be several, could hold between 500 and 2,500 people. The complex would have multiple restaurants.

* The residential units could number between 150 and 250 and include a combination of rental units and luxury condos.

* There could be more commercial and office space than originally envisioned, but Gibbs could not provide specifics numbers.

* Other possibilities, including an IMAX theater, have been discussed.
"It’s neither in nor out," Gibbs said of the gigantic-screen theater.
"Because we are in such a conceptual basis, we have discussed all types of potential uses."

But at least one possibility has been eliminated. That’s space for a sports museum called the Atlantic Coast Conference Hall of Champions.

"I just thought (the museum) needed to be downtown, and they agreed," Gibbs said of his conversations with the developers. "That’s the closest it ever came to being in the mix."

Gibbs said he has been working primarily with two developers, one local and one from out of state, but he added that an unknown number of others from outside the area also are involved.

"How many investors there are, I have no idea," Gibbs said. "And I probably never will know."

To date, the project has generated a high level of skepticism.

"That’s because it’s such a big project," said Richard Beard, a partner with the commercial real estate firm Simpson, Schulman & Beard, who compared the complex with Roy Carroll’s $37 million rehab of the former Wachovia Tower on North Elm Street. "It’s Roy Carroll times five, times six.

"That’s a lot of something. What that something is, a lot of people are interested in finding out."

Gibbs said he understands the skepticism. He felt the same way in the beginning.

"I have known the project has been real for a while," Gibbs said. "It still may not happen, but (an offer to buy) shows these people aren’t out there just trying to jerk everybody around. It shows that they are serious about making this happen."

Gibbs said the developers could make offers on more than one parcel. He could not say what the land might cost.

Offers to purchase, also known as letters of intent, are nonbinding and are not contracts. But they lay out the terms for acquiring land and set the stage for a contract to be drafted.

Once a contract is completed and signed, a buyer would begin what is called his due diligence. That would include matters such a land surveys, soil borings, environmental analysis, site planning and market analysis.
Once those steps are completed and if everything is favorable, then the buyer would purchase the land.

Sites under consideration include the former Bellemeade Village property north of First Horizon Park; the county-owned Guilford Center at 201 N. Eugene St.; the Weaver Foundation property at North Church Street and Friendly Avenue, plus property across Friendly that is owned by the city of Greensboro and Lincoln National Corp.; and the southern portion of the News & Record's property on Washington Street that includes employee parking.

Gibbs said he expects something to happen quickly.

"It either happens in the next couple of months, or it isn’t going to happen," he said. "Either we put the parcels in play in the next 60 days, or the investment dollars are likely going somewhere else."

Gibbs said he hopes his departure from DGI will not hurt the project. He’ll soon go to work for a private company as a landscape architect and project manager.

He said he will be available to work with DGI as a consultant.

"I’m not completely walking away," Gibbs said. "I will probably be in the office Monday doing something on this project. I will probably never have a chance in my career to be involved in something this big again."

Judging by the latest info, apparently they are going all out for the LARGEST version of this project in which developers could have even added things to the large plan. More developers are getting involved to make this thing even bigger and everyone is on the edge of their seats to find out what this project is all about. This could potentially be the largest urban project in North Carolina. It would be nice if the hotel had something unique like a rotating restaurant on the top floor.

Sounds big and hopefully it gets built. :) This project sounds like it could be something like this project getting ready to go up here, which is definitely NOT a bad thing: http://carolinanewswire.com/news/News.cgi?database=1news.db&command=viewone&id=4895&op=t It doesn't say in the article, but the cost of the project here is $600 million. Hopefully, the project in Greensboro is just as large if not bigger even though the cost might not be as high. The -boro and -ville are getting ready to boom. :)

I went out today and got a copy of the Business Jouranal i took the liberty of typing this up since its not online yet. after readindg the description of this project it seems like it could very realistically be a Downtown Disney, especially since an Orlando, Florida Developent Company is involved. (but it still may not be Disney at all

SKEPTICS SEEING MERIT IN GREENSBORO MEGA-PROJECT

Triad Business Journal
Greensboro, NC

As Ray Gibbs completes his tenure June 1 as president of Downtown Greensboro Inc, he does not intend to let go of the biggest project to come his way during eight years on the job.

Gibbs insists - to the astonishment and bewilderment of many - that a group of mostly international investors is absolutely serious about its desire to invest $150 million or more into a colossal mixed-use project downtown. It would cover 4 to 6 acres and include a cluster of mid- and high-rise buildings containing residential, office, hotel and entertainment space.

As the primary contact for the unnamed investor group, Gibbs says he will likely be retained by the group as he moves to his new job with a national development company. "they want me to stay with the project," says Gibbs, who will start working out of Mooresville later this month.

As with all such projects at this stage, secrecy preveils. Fewer than a dozen locals have been briefed. Mayor Keith Holliday knows a little as do mayoral candidate Yvonne Johnson and her rival, downtown developer Milton Kern. City Manager Mitch Johnson and his assistant City manager Ben Brown. Each has signed a nondisclosure agreement.

Gibbs, meanwhile, is at pains to persuade naturally skeptical, often doubting greensboro leaders that the project is viable and that the investors have mile deep pockets without actually divulging many details. Until land is put under contract, which could happen this summer, Gibbs is keeping quiet. Mostly.

"Their goal is to create a destination for the region - the southeast region," Gibbs says carefully. "They will be marketing to conferences and conventions, similar to Koury (Convention Center), though not on that scale. And the entertainment venues will be pretty significant. You're looking at things that would bring in national acts and appeal to people of all ages."

The concept of such all-in-one tourist/convention destinations - A KIND OF THEMEPARK WITHOUT ROLLER COASTERS OR WATERSLIDES - is an idea whose times is arriving Gibbs insists.

Shorter vacations, high gas prices and concerns about security are all conspiring to compel travelers to stay closer to home. The investors know, Gibbs says, that several million people live within a two hour drive of Greensboro. Its a prime central location, they believe, made more appealing by a revitalizing, downtown scene.

The investors obviously see something in Greensboro that locals rarely see themselves. Locals tend to scratch their heads and ask: If this is such a great idea, why the heck are you looking here?

"We have to show that we want them here," Gibbs says. "Bur that gets difficult when everyone immediately asks Why Greensboro? They hear that over and over. And they say "we're real. This is a good location. Why are you trying to talk us out of it?"

Holliday was among the skeptics. But this week, he says "Ive gathered more information, I can say without a doubt that the odds have improved substandtially. There is definatly a deal here. Whether it can be completed, i dont know. But its exciting, off the charts as far as im concerned."

Holliday optimistically predicts that Greensboro and the Triad better get used to such attention from outsiders. With high-profile economic development coups such as FedEx, Dell, Hondajet and Citicards, outside investors are following the trail to see what those corporation giants have bought into.

At City Hall, Johnson says the project and its investors are gradually gaining credibilty with him as he learns more about both. But he says from experience, "The bigger the project, the more ways you have that it can go wrong. I can foresee alot of things keeping it from happening."

Still he says the project might just fit nicely on a sprawling collection of parcels on either side of Church Street and East Friendly Ave near the Children's Museum where the city, the weaver Foundation and Lincoln Financial own land.

The city, he adds, would likely consider incentives such as infrastructure, upgrades to the site and perhaps even a parking deck- but only if investors can demonstrate the project's overall fiancial viabilty, would have the final say.

meanwhile, as Gibbs finishes clearing out his desk and prepares for two weeks off before starting his new job, he says, "if it can be accomplished, a project like this could truely change the dynamics of Greensboro. it will show that we can compete on a national scale." And exactly will the rest of us get to see what Gibbs has seen?

"As soon as they get a letter of intent on some land, the plans will be announced," he says "Thats when peoples's jaws will drop"


another key point, in the business Journal, Ray Gibbs says, once we get a letter of intent to purchase some land, plans will be reveal and "everyone's jaws will drop". The News & Record Reports that an offer (letter of intent) would be made within the next 7 to 10 days meaning it may not take two or three months before plans are revealed but they could be revealed within the next two weeks.

I am going to have a heart attack from all the anticipation :( I have to revisit this thread in about 2 weeks, after the final decision is made. Can't take this anymore :lol:

I am going to have a heart attack from all the anticipation :( I have to revisit this thread in about 2 weeks, after the final decision is made. Can't take this anymore :lol:

Oh ive been like Fred Sanford for the last month LOL

http://www.imax3dmyrtlebeach.com/images/shark3d250.jpg

Here are the Renderings for the $42 million Murrow (Edward R Murrow) Station development in downtown Greensboro. The development will include a bank and a pharamacy. The development will have 132 condos and townhomes and is nestled in the northeast corner of downtown very close to one of the sites considered for the $200 million secret mega development which itself could include 250 luxury condos and apartments. Im just excited by all the residential projects going up downtown!

http://www.downtownstadium.org/murrow1.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/murrow2.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/murrow3.jpg

Impressive!!! For those not familiar, click here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=greensboro,+nc&ie=UTF8&ll=36.076887,-79.783831&spn=0.004119,0.007296&t=h&z=17&om=1) for a map. Thanks for the update, cityboi. This project is a VERY nice redevelopment effort and I love the proximity to Elm Str :okay:

Impressive!!! For those not familiar, click here (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=greensboro,+nc&ie=UTF8&ll=36.076887,-79.783831&spn=0.004119,0.007296&t=h&z=17&om=1) for a map. Thanks for the update, cityboi. This project is a VERY nice redevelopment effort and I love the proximity to Elm Str :okay:

Thanks for posting the map! Im glad to see Greensboro's residential projects starting to get a little way from the historic look. This is a great qaulity development thats designed as affordable units. And thats good because much of the condo developments going up have been highend with exception to 411 West Washington. The urban fabric in Greensboro is looking good.

BTW here is a pdf that shows floor plans

http://www.historicaycock.org/Documents/Murrow%20Station.pdf

http://www.downtownstadium.org/Mstation1.png
http://www.downtownstadium.org/Mstation2.png
http://www.downtownstadium.org/Mstation3.png

these look really nice, and in a great location...close to A&T's campus.

It is necessary to maintain some sort of variety in terms of housing. Different people have different tastes and needs and it is wise to satisfy all the market segments, not just a few. Personally, I would love to see more historic-looking homes, but I would not look down on other designs... unless they are too extreme :lol: I love the Southside townhomes and I could see myself in one of them. I think that DT Greensboro can use 1-2 more Southside type of developments.

I have a theory on how much land the secret development could be on
the city manager said the project might just fit nicely on a sprawling collection of parcels on either side of Church Street and East Friendly Ave near the Children's Museum where the city, the weaver Foundation and Lincoln Financial own land. If they go for the largest plan which appears to be the case, they might build on multiple parcels of land. Of course they dont have to...the project can be more verticle if its on smaller acreage.

The two vertical adjoining sites were mentioned in the paper but I think the site to the left could come into play because the city manager mention sites on both sides of Church Street as well. Just left of the left site there are two parking decks, one of which is city owned. There is also a city parking deck to the left of the top parcel
http://www.downtownstadium.org/gsoproject1.jpg

http://www.downtownstadium.org/gsoproject2.jpg

I would certainly like to see some development along Davie Str. I always thought there was great potential along that road :okay: A few high-rises would start creating some depth in the skyline, which would look awesome from the Southside area :) Let's see if your guess is correct ;)

Cityboy, any speculation on how tall these 2 highrises may be? Are we talking 30+ stories?

I would certainly like to see some development along Davie Str. I always thought there was great potential along that road :okay: A few high-rises would start creating some depth in the skyline, which would look awesome from the Southside area :) Let's see if your guess is correct ;)

I Agree. Greensboro's skyline would expand in the other direction the way it has in Winston. Greensboro's skyline would be more dimemnsional and with enough towers and midrises, Greensboro's skyline could look as good as Winston's but we need a 30 story tower to make that happen. I think an office tower, a condo tower and a hotel tower in this development could get Greensboro's skyline to that level. My gut feeling tells me these are the sites because of its proximty to Elm Street, parking decks and other cultural atrractions. You really want a development like this to be in the heart of downtown. Plus it seems that the city manager prefers it there which could be a hint. But yea it would REALLY look awesome from Southside. It already looks awesome. Its the best view of Greensboro's skyline in my opinion.

The site next to the ballpark is ok but there could be some issues there. For one thing the site kinda butts up against the historic Fisher Park neighborhood and they might try to fight the project due to noise and traffic. They last thing we need is to have this project stalled. The developers will do this in another city if we dont act quickly on this. plus a cluster of highrises there my be a tad too distant from downtowns other towers. I think a more transitional "village" development with mid-rises, restaurants and some entertainment between Fisher Park and the stadium might be more appropriate. There is another developer according to the News & Record that is eying the sites next to the stadium anyway. The other sites I mentioned above (Duke Power, City and Lincoln Financial sites) there are no established residential neighborhoods for several blocks so you wouldnt have to worry about complaints or NIMBYS. The Duke Power site butts up against a rail line which means the development could one day have a light rail or commuter train stop. Nearby Murrow Blvd (the multi lane mini highway) could handle much of the traffic coming into downtown to the development. So thats really the perfect location in my opinion.

Ray Gibbs of Downtown Greensboro Inc. did say they are looking at alot more commercial and office space in this development than originally envisioned. This being the case, there is a good chance of an office tower in this development. Could a company be looking to relocate downtown? also there have been rumors that a supermarket could be in this mega development too. When I really start to think about how much is in this potential development, it just blows my mind away. Downtown is really taking off.

-There is Southside, which is still growing beyond its origional blueprint

-then there is Murrow Station

-Center Pointe tower is under construction and there is great potential for a phase II tower next to Center Pointe. That potential tower is specualted to be 30-stories. The developer of Center Pointe owns that lot and the Center Pointe tower has no windows or balconies facing that vacant lot.

-A developer (not associated with the mega development) is now eying the sites next to the ballpark

-the South Elm/Lee Street sites are getting ready to get bulldozed for a large mixed-uses residential development there which could include a 9 or 10 story condo building based on conceptial rendering.

-There is talk of a $130 million mixed-use residential development just outside of downtown (I think the old main post office site) which could included 200 condos, townhomes a 150 room hotel, conference space, acedemic building for A&T and Bennett College, restaurant and health club. That development would have some midrises at 6 stories (midrise flats). This would be another revolutionary development. My guess is that that development would be "annexed" into the central business district the way they are doing with Murrow Station.

Within 5 years, downtown could have at least 6 or 7 MAJOR mixed-use residential complexes. Greensboro's skyline could look dramatically different 10 years from now. Dont forget there is still a plan on hold for a highrise federal courthouse :). Construction on that courthouse was suppose to start last year but the war in Iraq has contributed to temporarily halting funds towards courthouse constructions across the country.

Between all the developments, there could potentially be 5 or 6 towers added to the downtown landscape over the upcoming years.

http://www.downtownstadium.org/gsoproject1.jpg

http://www.downtownstadium.org/gsoproject2.jpg

Cityboy, any speculation on how tall these 2 highrises may be? Are we talking 30+ stories?

No details about building sizes and heights have been revealed. mainly because they are still working out details and it would depend on which site the developers choose. My guess is that a 600 room hotel could at the very least be 20 stories but it could be taller depending on the size of the site or how much other development will be on the site.. If the hotel has the same size foot print as the Koury tower, we could be looking at a hotel tower above 30 stories if the hotel has 600 rooms.

Ray Gibbs of Downtown Greensboro Inc. did say they are looking at alot more commercial and office space in this development than originally envisioned. This being the case, there is a good chance of an office tower in this development. Could a company be looking to relocate downtown? also there have been rumors that a supermarket could be in this mega development too. When I really start to think about how much is in this potential development, it just blows my mind away. Downtown is really taking off.



That's alot of developing on a budget not to exceed $200 million.

That's alot of developing on a budget not to exceed $200 million.

It can be done. Fortunatly land values arent as high as some cities that have similar developments and then the project could go well over $200 million.

Saturday, June 9, 2007

Developers want incentives

Developers of Murrow Station, a proposed $42 million downtown project, have asked the city for $2.8 million in incentives.


"It won't work without some type of (public) financing to bridge this gap," said Chester Brown III, president of Brown Investment Properties, one of two developers on the 8.5-acre project.


Brown and the John Kavanagh Co. want to turn the property into a complex that would include 132 condos, 60 town houses and 19,000 square feet of office and commercial space.


The project could include up to 14 buildings.


None of the buildings would be more than four stories tall.


The property is bounded by Summit Avenue, Lindsay Street, Murrow Boulevard and the Norfolk Southern railroad tracks and includes the former Pet Dairy.


No date has been set for the City Council to consider the incentive request.


"We haven't even completed our own analysis (of the project)," said Ben Brown, an assistant city manager. "It sure is a lot of money."


A report prepared by Don Jud, professor emeritus of finance at UNCG, says the project should create:


* 167 new jobs with an average salary of nearly $42,000;


* $25.8 million in additional business output annually;


* $1.2 million in city and county taxes yearly.


From property taxes alone, the report says, the city should get back its incentive money 12.3 years after the project is completed.


Construction, which would produce more than 500 jobs, would take three years.


"Given the catalytic character of the Murrow Station project ... a subsidy in the range of $2.8 million seems a rational investment for a city looking to significantly invigorate its downtown center," the Jud report says.


One reason for the project's financial shortfall, Chester Brown said, is that the condos and town houses will be less expensive than most of those in downtown.


The town houses will sell for between $230,000 and $280,000; the condos will go between $130,000 and $250,000.


Chester Brown said that if the project doesn't get the public money it needs, it will have to be scaled back.


The developers already own the Pet property and hope to buy two adjoining parcels by fall.


Chester Brown said the developers would not be able to save the old Pet building, an art deco structure on Summit.


At one time, they hoped to be able to save at least the facade of the building.

http://news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070609/NEWSREC0101/70609006

That's alot of developing on a budget not to exceed $200 million. in comparison, check out Houston's main and largest entertainment complex. (http://www.houstonpavilions.com/) It was $170 million about $30 million less than the one proposed in Greensboro. The Houston complex includes

- 200,000 square feet of office space (office tower)
- 350,000 square feet of retail and entertainment anchored by 44,000 square foot House of Blues


Greensboro's project would be a little larger in scope with up to 230 condos, two luxury hotels with a total of 650 rooms, convention space, office space, entertainment and restaurants. Greensboro would also have a cluster of highrises and midrises. So price wise in comparison to other complexes thats about right.

But in Greensboro its not really that fact that all these things being built downtown are surprising, its the nature of it (which we dont know) that will be surprising. The difference between Greensboro's potential complex and Houston's is that the one being proposed for Greensboro is supposed to be a southeast regional destination whereas the Houston complex is more of a local/regional complex. But it is surprising that Greensboro could have a larger complex than Houston, a much bigger city. But anyway looking at the Houston renderings, you can get a good idea how big this complex can get in Greensboro and the type of venues to expect to see. Most major entertainment complexs have movie theaters and upscale bowling alleys. Charlotte's planned EpiCentre also has a theater and upscale bowling alley (Lucky Strike Lanes). So yea we better all hope and pray this happens in Greensboro.

Here is Houston's downtown entertainment/retail/office complex. This complex covers 4 acres. Greensboros's could cover as little as 4 acres and as much as 10 acres. We still dont know the square footage of Greensboro's complex which is said to have a cluster of highrises and midrises. it should be alot covering that much land and taller type buildings.

http://www.houstonpavilions.com/render050107/opt2view2_lg.jpg

http://www.houstonpavilions.com/render050107/view2_lg.jpg

The House of Blues

http://www.houstonpavilions.com/render050107/hob_lg.jpg

http://www.houstonpavilions.com/render050107/view3_lg.jpg

http://www.houstonpavilions.com/render050107/view4_lg.jpg

http://www.houstonpavilions.com/render050107/modelv1_lg.jpg

^ see, now this looks about right for a $200 million development. this is what i envision for the one that could be coming to greensboro. im still finding it hard to believe that a cluster of highrises and mid-rises could be built with just $200 million unless the highrise is around 15 stories with a couple of 8 story buildings around it.

^ see, now this looks about right for a $200 million development. this is what i envision for the one that could be coming to greensboro. im still finding it hard to believe that a cluster of highrises and mid-rises could be built with just $200 million unless the highrise is around 15 stories with a couple of 8 story buildings around it.

It could be that Greensboro's wont have as much retail as Houston's (understandabliy) but instead we could see more entertainment, office and residential which could lead to a highrise/midrise cluster. Within 4 to 10 acres there is alot of stuff to cram in that space. dont forget, There are suppose to be as much as 230 residential units in this (twice as many than Center Pointe), two hotels, one being a highrise, possibbally signnificant office space, convention space and an entertainment complex with multiple restaurants and several large entertainment venues seating between 500 and 2,500 people, plus other attractions for families and children including an IMAX. Thats a whole lot to cram in a parcel of land between 4 and 10 acres so you know there is going to be some serious verticle action going on here if the biggest plan is selected, that is unless the developers seek more parcels land going for more than 10 acres. My prediction is that we could see one tower between 18-30 stories with one or two towers around 10 or 12 stories. The great thing is that Greensboro's 200th birthday is next year and what a great birthday present this would be for the city.


Here a an upscale bowling alley chain called Lucky Strike Lanes, which typically has a nice restaruant and bar with DJs on the weekends. Most major entertainment complex have them including Peadbody Place, Houston pavilians and anumber of others. Charlotte's EpiCenter is suppose to have a Lucky Strike Lanes as well. Its very realistic we could see this in Greensboro's considering the cost and scope of the potential development. If this project happens I hope we do get something like this. It would be just another great place downtown to hang out with some friends, have a beer ot two and have some fun. you gotta has a few fun places to keep over 600 luxury hotel guests happy. In the words of DGI preisdent Ray Gibbs, "when plans are revealed peoples jaws are going to drop" :)

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Original_Photo/2005/03/10/1110468844_2439.jpghttp://www.sfjones.com/images/ls_files/image002.jpg
http://www.sfjones.com/images/ls_files/image006.jpg
http://www.sfjones.com/images/ls_files/image008.jpg
http://www.visitpittsburgh.com/images/db/static/Steelers/LuckyStrikeBar.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/50/226585886_91f029e9ca.jpg

The 32-story/730,000sf RBC Plaza (in Raleigh) will cost $100 million. It is possible to have a couple of smaller high-rises for under $200 million. Of course, it depends on how we define "high-rise". Personally, I call everything above 15 floors a high-rise, which may not be accurate, but I have to create a starting point somewhere.

The 32-story/730,000sf RBC Plaza (in Raleigh) will cost $100 million. It is possible to have a couple of smaller high-rises for under $200 million. Of course, it depends on how we define "high-rise". Personally, I call everything above 15 floors a high-rise, which may not be accurate, but I have to create a starting point somewhere.

It varies from city to city. In New York for example, 15-stories would be considered a low-rise or mid-rise. And it is just that when you compare it to New York's tallest buildings. But many define a skyscraper as being at least 10-stories.

As far is this project goes, I have a hunch we could see something above 20-stories in this project but I could be wrong. Maybe it will be a hotel/condo building like the tower they are building on the outskirts of Raleigh. As Ralboi says, this thing can be laid out many ways. But the suspense is killing me. Its been over a month since "Project X" was announced to the media and im ready to find out LOL

One correction - not your fault, cityboi. The 43-story Soleil Center isn't going to be in the outskirts of Raleigh; far from it. In fact, it is in a more central location than downtown itself. Crabtree Valley is less than 10 minutes away from the latter - not via highways - but centrally located as you look at the map of Raleigh. Just a clarification because I know how some forumers tend to exaggerate in order to make a point, just because they don't want to see this project materialize in Crabtree Valley.

The above project is projected to cost $170 million!!! This is a far cry from the original estimate of $100 million. The proposal for Greensboro will depend a lot on how much above the projected budget are the developers willing to go. If what they have in mind will cost $200 million in today's dollars, but the developers already know how big the project needs to be, they may adjust things a little. They may go with a couple of 20-story towers (anywhere between $50 and $70 million), with the rest of the development consisting of low- and mid-rise components. This will be revealed when the first renderings become available to the public... Soon, I hope :)

One correction - not your fault, cityboi. The 43-story Soleil Center isn't going to be in the outskirts of Raleigh; far from it. In fact, it is in a more central location than downtown itself. Crabtree Valley is less than 10 minutes away from the latter - not via highways - but centrally located as you look at the map of Raleigh. Just a clarification because I know how some forumers tend to exaggerate in order to make a point, just because they don't want to see this project materialize in Crabtree Valley.

The above project is projected to cost $170 million!!! This is a far cry from the original estimate of $100 million. The proposal for Greensboro will depend a lot on how much above the projected budget are the developers willing to go. If what they have in mind will cost $200 million in today's dollars, but the developers already know how big the project needs to be, they may adjust things a little. They may go with a couple of 20-story towers (anywhere between $50 and $70 million), with the rest of the development consisting of low- and mid-rise components. This will be revealed when the first renderings become available to the public... Soon, I hope :)

Thanks for the correction. I heard so much that it was on the outskirts, I believed it. People do that with Greensboro as well. They say something is in the suburbs when if fact its a few miles from downtown.

as for the development, alot can happen with $200 million. I would imagine there as at least one pretty tall tower in this and maybe one other tower thats a little smaller. There are just too many big words used to decribe the development (MASSIVE, HUGE, COLOSSAL, ect) for there not to be a tall tower in this. We know for fact there is at least one tower in this, which is the hotel. We just don know how tall it will be. With 600 rooms it can be pretty tall. It just depends on the size of the site and the footprint of the building. the hotel could easily be 35-stories if it has the same size footprint as the Koury. The taller Koury tower has 485 rooms and its 28-stories.

600 rooms is a lot!!! Hopefully, they will not do what they did with the Westin in Charlotte. Personally, I dislike wide buildings, even when their design is nice. This would be a great opportunity for GSO to get a new tallest and a signature tower that will add height to the existing skyline.

As for the Soleil Center, some forumers tend to ignore the areas outside the beltline (I-440), forgetting that the VAST majority of Raleigh's population lives there. Even the neighborhood supported this project overwhelmingly. God forbid you guys get any resistance from NIMBY's and pseudo-preservationists. I hope the [Greensboro] project moves fast from review to approval. This would set the tone for future developments and make DT GSO a very attractive place to build major projects

600 rooms is a lot!!! Hopefully, they will not do what they did with the Westin in Charlotte. Personally, I dislike wide buildings, even when their design is nice. This would be a great opportunity for GSO to get a new tallest and a signature tower that will add height to the existing skyline.

As for the Soleil Center, some forumers tend to ignore the areas outside the beltline (I-440), forgetting that the VAST majority of Raleigh's population lives there. Even the neighborhood supported this project overwhelmingly. God forbid you guys get any resistance from NIMBY's and pseudo-preservationists. I hope the [Greensboro] project moves fast from review to approval. This would set the tone for future developments and make DT GSO a very attractive place to build major projects

actually the figures given were between 300 and 600 hotel rooms. But I used the biggest number to show how tall this hotel can be...hopefully if this happens, the hotel will have 600 rooms or even more. Its already gone up a hundred rooms one time. At first they said the maximum number of rooms would be 500.

I dont like wide buildings either. Greensboro Marriott downtown is 11-stories and is a wide building. It would be a taller building if it was built with a smaller footprint. Lets hope the hotel has a small foot print so the height can increase. With all the stuff they want to put in this development, they may just happen.

If the project happens, just think of the spin-off effect for future downtown development and development within the city as a whole. I think this development is so big in impact, it can attract things to Greensboro that normally wouldn't come to a city our size. Judging by the description of this development, Greensboro has a good chance of becoming a tourist destination in the future. Its like in Orlando. Walt Disney built Disney World and since then many other developers have built tourist attractions around this area to cash in on the tourist that flock to Disney World. I see the same thing happening with Greensboro but on a smaller scale if the development happens. The same thing happened with Myrtle Beach. According Ralboi this development has the potential of making Greensboro a real destination area. I believe him too. I mean they dont build 600 room LUXURY hotels for nothing and especially in downtown Greensboro. It almost sounds ludicrous to build that kind of hotel with so many rooms in downtown Greensboro but this must be SOME tourist attraction. Also dont forget there is a second smaller luxury hotel in the mix. But im willing to bet that at the very least this proposal includes a House of Blues based on Ray Gibbs discriptions that the entertainment venues will be pretty significant and several holding between 500 and 2,500 people bringing in big time national acts. It may also include some other things that would be totally unbelievable. I wont mention them because g-man will say im going to far with this..LOL ;)

I'm hoping Greensboro's project proposed for downtown is similiar or even bigger than this. Check out page 11 to see what i'm talking about: http://councilagendas.greatergreenville.com/minutes/2007/June/Formal/6-11-2007/Item13b.pdf The -ville and -boro are about to go boom. :cheers:

^^
BOOM!!!!!!!!

^^
BOOM!!!!!!!!

Don't scare me like that. Jeez. :lol:

Here are pictures of City View downtown apartments in Southside going up.

http://www.downtownstadium.org/cv1.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cv2.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cv3.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cv4.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cv5.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cv6.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cv7.jpg
http://www.downtowngreensboro.org/resources/images/20070123-160139-Cityview-6.jpg

Some of the residents of City View will have a very nice view of the skyline ;) Excellent update, cityboi.

^^I was about to say the same thing. :)

Some of the residents of City View will have a very nice view of the skyline ;) Excellent update, cityboi.

I think I want to live there :)

^^Damn, I thought you were going to have some new information on the super duper almost orgasmic secret massive downtown mixed-use development project. :lol:

^^Damn, I thought you were going to have some new information on the super duper almost orgasmic secret massive downtown mixed-use development project. :lol:

LOL I tricked you ;)

^^Damn, I thought you were going to have some new information on the super duper almost orgasmic secret massive downtown mixed-use development project. :lol:
Renderings and info will be available at the same time you will post renderings of the new tallest for Greenville ;)

Renderings and info will be available at the same time you will post renderings of the new tallest for Greenville ;)

That would most likely be by the end of this month then. :)

We'll see you in a couple of weeks then :rofl:

This is off-topic, but I just have to say it. Cityboi said this on UP:

No city Greensboro's size is building anything remotely close to what these developers have in mind.


Well, I think I just proved you wrong twice-

$2.4 billion: http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070501/BUSINESS/70501033

$600 million: http://councilagendas.greatergreenville.com/minutes/2007/June/Formal/6-11-2007/Item13b.pdf

This is off-topic, but I just have to say it. Cityboi said this on UP:



Well, I think I just proved you wrong twice-

$2.4 billion: http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070501/BUSINESS/70501033

$600 million: http://councilagendas.greatergreenville.com/minutes/2007/June/Formal/6-11-2007/Item13b.pdf

once again...im not talking about cost. Im talking about the project itself and what it all entails.

A megabuck penthouse in the works

GREENSBORO — The penthouse condos at Roy Carroll's Center Pointe project could top out at $6 million, which would make them among the most expensive for any downtown in the state.
At least for a while.


Besides a nice view and a huge mortgage payment, what will all that money get you?


"It's whatever people want and can afford," said Carroll, who is turning the former Wachovia Building on North Elm Street into a $37 million complex that includes 99 luxury condos.


Those would start at $182,000 and go up to more than $500,000.


But the penthouse units on the 15th and 16th floors are where the money and the options get lofty. Options could range from in-home theaters to indoor waterfalls. Someone could even request a penthouse covering two full floors.


"You dream it; we can do it," said Jim Wolfe, co-founder of Wolfe Homes, whose company will build the custom units.


The penthouses could range from 3,000 square feet to 12,500 or a full floor. Prices would go from $1.4 million to $6 million.


"That says ... we have confidence in the trends," Sherry Adams, interim president of Downtown Greensboro Inc., said of the multi-million-dollar price tags. "We are following the trends of other cities such as Charlotte and Raleigh."


But it will be difficult to follow one Charlotte trend.


A condo project in the Queen City, scheduled to come on line in 2009, will have units topping out at $10 million.


So who would want to spend millions to live downtown?


"We have a list of people who are waiting for this announcement," Carroll said of Wolfe's role as the custom builder. "This is kind of market driven."


Carroll's original plans didn't include penthouse options, but when he unveiled the project, potential buyers began asking for larger spaces. So he reduced the number of units from 156 to 99.


No word yet on how much Carroll's penthouse on the building's 17th floor will cost or what it's going to look like.


He did say, "I'm planning maybe a waterfall in my home. People like water features." Later, Carroll indicated it would be a two-story waterfall.


Wolfe said most upscale housing in Greensboro has been built on a golf courses or lakes.


"Now, we are adding penthouse views," he said. "That hasn't been available before."


Carroll said the project is on schedule and should open next summer.


On another front, Carroll said he's looking for a white-table restaurant to go on the ground-floor of Center Pointe, but has not yet found the right tenant.



A new look at center of downtown


GREENSBORO — Developers could spend between $7 million and $8 million to turn the Southeastern Building downtown into a complex that will include apartments, office space and, perhaps, a restaurant and nightclub.

Work should begin by September.

"We've been working on this thing for two years now," said Willard Tucker, one of the developers. "So, we have got to put it into production."

Tucker and his partner, Barry Siegal, purchased the nine-story, neoclassical building in 2005 for $2.2 million.

The project will return the L-shaped building — once Greensboro's tallest — to its original, 1921 look — at least on the exterior.

That means recreating six Doric columns that once stood around the building, which occupies the northeast corner of Elm and Market streets.
The original columns had been removed in 1939 when a remodeling project gave the first two floors a more modern look.

"I don't think pedestrians have any idea what visual improvement (the project) will make," said Sherry Adams, interim president of Downtown Greensboro Inc. "In its current condition, I don't think people recognize its historic significance."

A 1927 expansion increased the building's size to about 100,000 square feet.

In the 1920s, the building would have been considered a modern wonder for North Carolina. It had elevators, a central vacuum system and was made of reinforced concrete and limestone.

"It was marketed as Greensboro's first fire-proof high rise," said Steve Freyaldenhoven, of TFF Architects and Planners, who has worked on the project. "It was not a typical brick building."

For years, residents thought of the building as downtown's most prestigious address. But in the past two decades, it had begun to decline as high-end tenants moved out.

The rehab calls for a restaurant and retail space on the first floor and in the basement, offices on the second and third floors, and 51 apartments on floors four through nine.

The apartments will include efficiencies and one- and two-bedroom units. Their size will range from about 500 square feet to more than 1,000.
Rents will range from about $700 a month to about $1,500.

Tucker and Siegal said they soon may be able to announce a major restaurant and a nightclub for the building.

"Folks would certainly know of it," Siegal said of the restaurant. "You will see others in the Triad."

Of the nightclub, he said: "What's being proposed will be a very large and very classy facility. It's a home run."

The nightclub could occupy part of the first floor and part of the basement, where the building's original bank vaults still stand.

To recover some of the restoration costs, the developers have qualified for a combined 40 percent tax credit that the state and federal governments provide for rehabilitating old buildings.

The two men got the idea for the project when they saw a picture of the building as it originally looked.

"When we saw that, we went, 'Wow!'" Siegal said. "That's what this thing needs to look like."

The rehab should take about a year to complete.

Wow!!! The price tag of those penthouses is very high!!! Since there was a mention of Raleigh, I must say that about a year and a half ago one condo sold for a little over a million - Glenwood Gardens, outside downtown - and currently there isn't a single condo unit selling for $1 million, or more in the entire downtown area. Soleil Center 1, however, is the only project that is scheduled to offer units between $800,000 and up to $3.5 million. That will be the highest in the Triangle. Hopefully, there will be someone with deep pockets to spend $6 million for one of those penthouses. The views from up there must be really nice, but the price tag is too high. Center Pointe is an excellent renovation effort, though :okay:

Wow!!! The price tag of those penthouses is very high!!! Since there was a mention of Raleigh, I must say that about a year and a half ago one condo sold for a little over a million - Glenwood Gardens, outside downtown - and currently there isn't a single condo unit selling for $1 million, or more in the entire downtown area. Soleil Center 1, however, is the only project that is scheduled to offer units between $800,000 and up to $3.5 million. That will be the highest in the Triangle. Hopefully, there will be someone with deep pockets to spend $6 million for one of those penthouses. The views from up there must be really nice, but the price tag is too high. Center Pointe is an excellent renovation effort, though :okay:

LOL even for a two story waterfall and built in home movie theaters...$6 million sound extremly high and it is, but Charlotte will be having $10 million condos....that really gets rediculous but hey as long as there are people willing to pay that kind of money for them, build them all day :) The good thing about the $6 million ones in Center Pointe as that there is already a list of people who want to buy these mega swank condos which I find amazing. I dont know if I can think of a house in Greensboro thats $6 million but I could be wrong. but projects like this can shoot property values through the roof and that does scare me a little because land is difficult to develope on if it gets to epensive.

Honestly, I am not surprised there are people who are interested and able to purchase those ultra-expensive condos, but I am not as concerned about the prices going too high. The upper-end condo market will soon be saturated. Even those $10 million condos envisioned for Charlotte are still a vision. I don't doubt there is market for them, nor I will be surprised if they sell out, but we'll see how things will turn out when that tower is actually built. Only a handfull of people would pay so much money for a condo and once they purchase their dream condos, that market will die for a few more years. To the best of my knowledge, Greensboro - much like Raleigh and Durham - will have a hard time to build a high-end condo market. I give credit to Roy for trying this. Besides, he has to make his money somewhere, and high-end is the best way to do this. Maybe some of those Honda executives will be interested ;)

had a little fun in photo shop. :) Here is what a cluster of highrise/midrises would look like on one of the sites being considered for the big secert project (former Duke Power site, Lincoln Financial and city property. (viewed from Center Pointe)

http://www.downtownstadium.org/sceret1.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/sceret2.jpg

Something a little more sprawled out if the parking lot next to Governors Court is purchased as well

http://www.downtownstadium.org/sceret3.jpg

once again...im not talking about cost. Im talking about the project itself and what it all entails.

Yes, our $2.4 billion project does not match your $250 million one. :ohno: :lol:

Yes, our $2.4 billion project does not match your $250 million one. :ohno: :lol:

I imagine something sprawled out 20 to 30 acres would cost 2.4 billion ;)

Thanks for putting this together, cityboi, and amen to that!!! Let's hope this will be the minimum impact.

g-man, there are many examples of "overbuilt" projects that carried a much heaftier price tag than others. As an example, the 5-story Green Square will cost the state government over $105 million, more than the 32-story/>730,000sf RBC Plaza. Some other projects carry higher price tag because the developers want to build "greener" structures. Size is not always what determines the price. That is not to belittle the $2.4 billion investment in Greenville, but to illustrate the potential differences between the two projects and the impact they may have on the existing fabric.

^^:lol: True. I would like to apologize and sing you a song:

I like to turkey cause it's good, love to eat turkey like a good boy should, cause it's turkey to eat; so good. Turkey for me, turkey for you. Let's eat the turkey in my big brown shoe. Love to eat the turkey at the table. I once saw a movie with Betty Grabel. Eat that turkey all night long, 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong. Turkey lerky doodle and turkey lerky dot. I eat that turkey then I take a nap. Thanksgiving is a special moment. Jimmy Walker used to say dynomite. Turkey with gravey and cranberry. Can't believe the Mets traded Dallos Strawberry. Turkey for you and turkey for me...

Thanks for putting this together, cityboi, and amen to that!!! Let's hope this will be the minimum impact.

You are welcome...I tried to be conservative with my drawings but we can always dream that something bigger than this could happen :)

You are welcome...I tried to be conservative with my drawings but we can always dream that something bigger than this could happen :)

Why would you want bigger when you can have taller? ;) It would be like Greensboro on Viagra. :lol:

LOL maybe that what downtown Greensboro club owner Joey Medaloni meant when he said in 10 years he could see Greensboro becoming the Los Angeles of the east coast!


I'm going to break this down so that you guys understand the importance of not creating buzz and hype before a proposal for a project has been revealed...

Creating buzz and hype about projects create expectations that may/may not be realistic and may not be what the developers have in mind or can potentially deliver. The downside of this is that if this situation is created, where people's expectations are greater than what the developer eventually does deliver, it will create a situation where everyone (who has listened to the buzz and believed the hype) will express dissatisfaction with the developer because they did not deliver what was expected, even though the developers did not create the unrealistic expectations in the first place. This could be extremely negative for a developer and could be potentially devastating for their business.

Having said all of this, no developer is going to put themselves in a position where they are going to build something that could not possibly live up to the expectations that have been falsely created. They would more likely not build anything, to prevent from being put into that situation.

It is common knowledge within city planning circles throughout this country that preliminary plans of this nature must be kept under tight wraps, for the reasons that I mentioned above. By creating so much buzz and posting images (i.e. the comparison to Houston's development), the mysterious developer may shy away from Greensboro and could possibly develop elsewhere, simply because they don't want to be put in the situation where they can't possibly deliver what is expected. People such as Ray Gibbs and Joey Medaloni should definitely keep their mouths shut, considering the positions that they are in.

You guys could be doing more harm than good to this project simply by discussing it at this stage in the game. Don't be surprised if the developers walk away from the table, and it could simply be because they got wind of all of the hype surrounding this project in Greensboro.

I'm going to break this down so that you guys understand the importance of not creating buzz and hype before a proposal for a project has been revealed...

Creating buzz and hype about projects create expectations that may/may not be realistic and may not be what the developers have in mind or can potentially deliver. The downside of this is that if this situation is created, where people's expectations are greater than what the developer eventually does deliver, it will create a situation where everyone (who has listened to the buzz and believed the hype) will express dissatisfaction with the developer because they did not deliver what was expected, even though the developers did not create the unrealistic expectations in the first place. This could be extremely negative for a developer and could be potentially devastating for their business.

Having said all of this, no developer is going to put themselves in a position where they are going to build something that could not possibly live up to the expectations that have been falsely created. They would more likely not build anything, to prevent from being put into that situation.

It is common knowledge within city planning circles throughout this country that preliminary plans of this nature must be kept under tight wraps, for the reasons that I mentioned above. By creating so much buzz and posting images (i.e. the comparison to Houston's development), the mysterious developer may shy away from Greensboro and could possibly develop elsewhere, simply because they don't want to be put in the situation where they can't possibly deliver what is expected. People such as Ray Gibbs and Joey Medaloni should definitely keep their mouths shut, considering the positions that they are in.

You guys could be doing more harm than good to this project simply by discussing it at this stage in the game. Don't be surprised if the developers walk away from the table, and it could simply be because they got wind of all of the hype surrounding this project in Greensboro.


The question is how much of it is hype if its hype at all? We dont know what this project is......only that its pretty big for Greensboro so we cant say its hype if we dont know what it is. personally I dont think anyone will be dissapointed if this project happens. Ray Gibbs knows what to say and what not to say.....he is very careful in his wording but what he has said indicates this is really a big potential project beyond what Greensboro is use to. I dont think the developers would walk away over discussed hype because I believe this project is as big as Ray Gibbs and others have said. most many people in Greensboro may not even be aware of this developemnt because maybe they dont read the news paper. The only things that would keep it from happening in Greensboro is if the developers cant secure a land deal in a timely matter or if city leaders drag their asses in regards to supporting this project. Thats it...thats what would keep it from happening here.

keep in mind...this development is bigger than just Greensboro. Its designed to attract people from far away...that we know and is not hype. Even if the scaled down version is built its still big for Greensboro. Its just a matter of the developers securing the land and getting city support.

The question is how much of it is hype if its hype at all? We dont know what this project is......only that its pretty big for Greensboro so we cant say its hype if we dont know what it is. personally I dont think anyone will be dissapointed if this project happens. Ray Gibbs knows what to say and what not to say.....he is very careful in his wording but what he has said indicates this is really a big potential project beyond what Greensboro is use to. I dont think the developers would walk away over discussed hype because I believe this project is as big as Ray Gibbs and others have said. most many people in Greensboro may not even be aware of this developemnt because maybe they dont read the news paper. The only things that would keep it from happening in Greensboro is if the developers cant secure a land deal in a timely matter or if city leaders drag their asses in regards to supporting this project. Thats it...thats what would keep it from happening here.

keep in mind...this development is bigger than just Greensboro. Its designed to attract people from far away...that we know and is not hype. Even if the scaled down version is built its still big for Greensboro. Its just a matter of the developers securing the land and getting city support.

hype

1. to stimulate, excite, or agitate (usually fol. by up): She was hyped up at the thought of owning her own car.
2. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods; promote or publicize showily: a promoter who knows how to hype a prizefight.

You don't call statements such as "people's jaws will drop" and "LA of the east coast" and "No city Greensboro's size is building anything remotely close to what these developers have in mind" hype? What would you call it...exaggeration? extreme optimism? dreaming?

hype

1. to stimulate, excite, or agitate (usually fol. by up): She was hyped up at the thought of owning her own car.
2. to create interest in by flamboyant or dramatic methods; promote or publicize showily: a promoter who knows how to hype a prizefight.

You don't call statements such as "people's jaws will drop" and "LA of the east coast" and "No city Greensboro's size is building anything remotely close to what these developers have in mind" hype? What would you call it...exaggeration? extreme optimism? dreaming?

First of all the comment of Greensboro being the LA of the east coast was not specifically in reference to this project. maybe Joey knows something about this project, I dont know. Also just because Ray Gibbs comes out and says people jaws will drop, that doesnt mean the developers are just going to pack up their plans for Greensboro and leave. Talking about the potentials is not going to make them leave. Lets keep this in perspective here. It appears that the developers are committed to Greensboro ONLY if they can secure a land deal in quick time frame and get city support. Otherwise they will look elsewhere. Its just as simple as that

Does anybody (cityboi) have information, news, pics, renderings, etc. of the FedEx hub to be built in Greensboro at the airport? Thanks.

Does anybody (cityboi) have information, news, pics, renderings, etc. of the FedEx hub to be built in Greensboro at the airport? Thanks.

I'll see if I can find some....I know they have starting constructing one of the buildings.

I'll see if I can find some....I know they have starting constructing one of the buildings.

Thanks. Now, get out of the office and go take some update pics of this and other projects going up in Greensboro. :bow: :master: :lol:

Thanks. Now, get out of the office and go take some update pics of this and other projects going up in Greensboro. :bow: :master: :lol:

LOL I would if I could...im in Lexington right now.

LOL I would if I could...im in Lexington right now.

What the heck you doing in the middle of nowhere? Well, I guess it's better than Augusta, SC. :lol:

What the heck you doing in the middle of nowhere? Well, I guess it's better than Augusta, SC. :lol:

LOL what wrong with Augusta?:hahaha:

LOL what wrong with Augusta?:hahaha:

They think they live in every other state, but Georgia. Just ask the Pillsbury Doughboy. :lol:

FedEx hub information cityboi? Hello? :lol:

Kermit, don't make me ask the Pillsbury doughboy or Tux for information on this instead. :lol:

Tux knows nothing on this :( I am waiting desperately for Kermit to find out about the latest and feed us with information. BTW, why the Hell haven't you (g-man) chosen an avatar yet? Find a nice character and go with it ;)

Kermit, don't make me ask the Pillsbury doughboy or Tux for information on this instead. :lol:

LOL I got side tracked.....im lookin forgot where I saw the photo and info

Tux knows nothing on this :( I am waiting desperately for Kermit to find out about the latest and feed us with information. BTW, why the Hell haven't you (g-man) chosen an avatar yet? Find a nice character and go with it ;)

as for Greenboro's secret project.....nothing to report yet.....I could continue with my speculation until then if you'd like? What do you think Gman? m))

^^
Do not ask g-man... He will tell you to post the story of your entire life in photos :lol:

LOL

^^
Do not ask g-man... He will tell you to post the story of your entire life in photos :lol:

...with update pictures of development on the side. :lol:

mayor of Greensboro describes this development as "Truely Breathtaking" and he also confirms a downtown convention center is in the proposal. The News & Record did a little investigation and found the letter he wrote to the developers in public records. It also seems that this project may indeed go forward. The main development company is based in Orlando, Florida

http://bjimg.sv.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BJ&Date=20070626&Category=NEWSREC0101&ArtNo=70625027&Ref=AR&MaxW=400&MaxH=350&title=1

Mayor: Project 'breathtaking’

By Margaret Moffett Banks
Staff writer

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GREENSBORO — "Truly breathtaking."

That's how Mayor Keith Holliday describes the mysterious and much-discussed project that could put a $200 million luxury hotel and convention center downtown.

In a May 29 letter to the project's developer, Holliday ticked off a list of uses for the multibuilding project: hotel, convention center, family entertainment venues, restaurants, stores, apartments and condos.

He also offers the city's help during "the due diligence process" — the process through which a potential buyer investigates a purchase and a sign the developer is serious about the project.

"I can not even imagine, at this point, what such a development would mean for the future of downtown," Holliday wrote.

"I commend you and your business partners on your aggressive vision and thank you for your interest in bringing this exciting concept to Greensboro."

Holliday didn't return telephone calls Monday.

The News & Record obtained the letter through a public-records request. The city removed the developer's name and address, but left the text of the letter intact.

Holliday also signed a confidentiality agreement with the developer, but the city hasn't yet fulfilled the newspaper's request for a copy.

Talk of the project, which could be the largest ever downtown, has been all the rage in development circles. Some have said it could employ as many as 400 people.

Sites under consideration include the former Bellemeade Village property north of First Horizon Park; the county-owned Guilford Center at 201 N. Eugene St.; the Weaver Foundation property at North Church Street and Friendly Avenue, plus property across Friendly that is owned by the city of Greensboro and Lincoln National; and the southern portion of the News & Record's property on Washington Street that includes employee parking.

Downtown leaders have said a preferred site has emerged, but they won't identify it.

Other known details:

* Depending on the site and the amount of investment, the project could range from three buildings to seven. No square footage estimates have been determined.

* The luxury hotel could have 300 to 600 rooms.

* The entertainment venues, and there might be several, could hold 500 to 2,500 people. The complex would have multiple restaurants.

* The residential units could number 150 to 250 and include a combination of rental units and luxury condos.

* Other possibilities, including an IMAX theater, have been discussed.

Once again this project has been decribed as a "southeast destination" with venues attracting national acts

Thanks for the continuous updates, cityboi :) Although it is hard to be patient when it comes to such huge projects, I know that the best way to deal with it is to wait.

Thanks for the continuous updates, cityboi :) Although it is hard to be patient when it comes to such huge projects, I know that the best way to deal with it is to wait.

I know it is hard being patient, all the hype says this is a HUGE project that could change the dynamics of the city. If this happens Greensboro would be the only city in NC that has two major convention centers. The more I think about it the more I believe the downtown convention center and Koury Convention Center might just actually compliment one another and strengthen Greensboro's position as a convention city. I think if this project happens downtown it will also attract other tourist projects to the city, things that might not otherwise come to a city like Greensboro. There is already a second luxury hotel being proposed for downtown. As Ralboi says if they build that large plan, it could really turn Greensboro into a destination area.

Also my guess for this being a luxury hotel would be something like a Hyatt Regency or even Wyndham (since the hotel chain is sponsoring Greensboro's PGA event). The hotel chain did say it wasnt out of the question for them building a hotel in Greensboro. It would likely be a brand that caters to both families and business/convention travelers. This combined with the multi-modal depot being nearby makes this development a dynamic package.

Also my guess for this being a luxury hotel would be something like a Hyatt Regency or even Wyndham (since the hotel chain is sponsoring Greensboro's PGA event). The hotel chain did say it wasnt out of the question for them building a hotel in Greensboro. It would likely be a brand that caters to both families and business/convention travelers. This combined with the multi-modal depot being nearby makes this development a dynamic package.

We have a Hyatt Regency here in Greenville, so I don't see any reason why Greensboro couldn't get one. I could also see something like a Westin coming there too. :)

We have a Hyatt Regency here in Greenville, so I don't see any reason why Greensboro couldn't get one. I could also see something like a Westin coming there too. :)

certainly not out of the question. Westin has already built a hotel in Charlotte and is building one in Raleigh. It appears the hotel chain really likes NC. But any luxury hotel chain really would do alot for Greensboro's image because the city has suffered to long for having a "blue collar" "small town" image.

Honda Aircraft Company broke ground today on its world headquarters and jet manufacturing plant today in Greensboro. Average jobs will be above $70,000 per year

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070627/NEWSREC0101/70627016

video footage
http://www.myfoxwghp.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3611547&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

News 2
http://www.wfmynews2.com/news/breaking/article.aspx?storyid=86174

Greensboro based RF Micro Devices now ranks as the world's 6th largest communications semiconductor vender. The city not only has the headquarters but two hitech manufacturing plants as well.

http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2007/06/25/daily24.html?jst=b_ln_hl

By the way, I read that Lenovo will move forward with their Triad investment without any incentives :) Well, since their commitment to honoring their end of the bargain so far hasn't really gotten high grades, they realized that North Carolina isn't ready for another such deal. Glad they see our state as a great place to do business.

By the way, I read that Lenovo will move forward with their Triad investment without any incentives :) Well, since their commitment to honoring their end of the bargain so far hasn't really gotten high grades, they realized that North Carolina isn't ready for another such deal. Glad they see our state as a great place to do business.

indeed and Lenovo will manufacture some computers (light manufacturing). It wont be a big manufacturing operation, mainly a distribution center but this is still more great economic news for Guilford County.

News for Guilford County lately has just been wonderful. Now if only the Fed Ex hub will ever open. Man has a project ever taken so long. I feel like i was in high school when this was announced and now i have two kids and have been away from G'boro for over 5 years.

News for Guilford County lately has just been wonderful. Now if only the Fed Ex hub will ever open. Man has a project ever taken so long. I feel like i was in high school when this was announced and now i have two kids and have been away from G'boro for over 5 years.

yea. I think FedEx is suppose to be operational by 2009, just in time for HondaJet. The announcement of FedEx coming to Greensboro was back in 1998 almost 10 years ago. Court battles slowed the project down. It was suppose to be operational around 2003 or 2004.

2010 is going to be a big year for Greensboro because FedEx and Honda Jet will be operational and if this downtown secret project happens, I predict it will open by 2009 or 2010. It will take a year to design this project and another year or two to actually build it.

It seems like Greensboro has these cycles in which alot of stuff gets built downtown around the same time. The first cycle was in 1926 when downtown got the Carolina Theater, a new depot, the King Cotton Hotel and the Guilford Building. There was a cycle in the early 90s with the new office towers and cultural center. We appear to be currently going through another such cycle with the new ballpark, center-city park, condo development, downtown Greenway and the mystery hotel/entertainment development.

Apparently cityboi might know who is building this project that will include a large-scale water feature and be upscale. It is not Disney either. ;)

I THINK I know the company behind this according to a "reliable source" Its not Disney but its a great candidate for the project and the person that said the company name said they were told by a pretty good source. But im not going to say the name of the company here ;) Im also aware of the projects this company has done. But I guess I'll have to wait and see if this peson was right. I will say this company has High qaulity developments. The company often builds their projects in phases so if this is the company which I believe it is, we may or may not see all thats proposed in this built at the same time. But all the company's projects seem to be upscale. Some one said this would be sold to the city as an intriguing, and amazing landmark which will bring sex appeal to the Greensboro. This person released a few amazing details (which could also include some significant water features bigger than the fountains at center-city park ;)) but I cant confirm these details. The source of this info is probabally someone high up in city government because when I ask the person that said all this, the person declined to say if the source was from city leadership. But this person is 99% sure that the developer he/she mentioned is the one behind this project. If true, this is an exciting project indeed. However I dont know all the details and I probablly dont know most of the details.

According to the News & Record an unidentified developer has land next to the ballpark (the nothern most tract of land above Smith Street) under contract. There was alot of activity on the site thursday, drilling and surveying. Property owners near the site say the developer could be building student housing there but I dont know maybe part of the massive development includes student apartments. I do know the development is suppose to have apartments. It could be other unidentified developers building projects downtown or it could be the one thats building the massive complex. If its the latter, then Greensboro has got this deal! and if thats the case we should here an announcement with all the details really soon!

Don't you hate it when you have all these clues, but you still have to wait longer in order to find out? Sometimes I wish things were done the old fashion way, when we found out right after the announcement. I try not to respond to the updates because I have enough things to anticipate in my life and the agony levels are way beyond the maximum allowed :lol:

Don't you hate it when you have all these clues, but you still have to wait longer in order to find out? Sometimes I wish things were done the old fashion way, when we found out right after the announcement. I try not to respond to the updates because I have enough things to anticipate in my life and the agony levels are way beyond the maximum allowed :lol:

LOL I know, it would have been better if we didnt know anything until it was announced LOL..but the fact that this is one of the sites the Florida Developer is looking at, says to me we probabally got this deal, just hasnt been publically announced yet. If so I do wish they would have chosen the Duke Power Site because it would have been closer to the museums, cultural attractions and Elm Street activity. I think its important that a convention center in this project be as close to those amenities as much as possible. Maybe we'll see the surprise announcement in this sunday's paper. Everytime the paper writes an article on this, it seems like its always in Sundays paper. Or Maybe Ray Gibbs will call a press conference with the developers next week. Ray Gaibbs said something would happen within 2 to 3 months and tommorow it will be 2 months. Time has actually gone by fast!. Usually when you anticipate something time drags. The Jones brothers who owns the site near the ballpark and was also the ones that were proposing Bellemeade Village are saying nothing about deals with their land. They are being mum and have been mum since this project was first announced.

City View apartments in downtown's Southside are moving along. They are starting on the next apartment buildings and clearling land for the clubhouse/pool. The apartments have that industrial look and are located on the opposite side of the railroas tracks from the depot. Obviously the apartments facing Greensboro's skyline well be rented out first. so if you are interested, you'd better hurry!

http://www.downtownstadium.org/cviewapt1.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cviewapt2.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cviewapt3.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cviewapt4.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cviewapt5.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cviewapt6.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cviewapt7.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cviewapt8.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cviewapt9.jpg
http://www.downtownstadium.org/cviewapt10.jpg

Wow!!! City View apartments moved really fast!!! I really like the exterior work. Thanks for the update photos, cityboi.

As this project gets more and more real, officials are getting more quiet. Gibbs had said this project could change the face and the character of the center-city. I think Gibbs has been told to shut up because as he released info that somewhat decribes the project and more and more people are starting to catch on and figure this thing out. Officials say that the reason for this thing getting more secret is that the developers are getting closer and closer to getting a site(s) for this project.

'Secret’ project back under wraps

By Donald W. Patterson
Staff Writer

GREENSBORO — Back in May, before he stepped down as president of Downtown Greensboro Inc., Ray Gibbs sat in his office above North Elm Street and talked about a proposed project that could change the face and character of the center city.

The complex — which could include entertainment venues, restaurants, shops, apartments, condos and a hotel and convention center, among other features — boasted a potential price tag of more than $200 million.

"We call it the secret project," Gibbs said then.

In the weeks since, the project has gotten even more secretive.

And sensitive.

For a time, information about the project — its price range, possible locations, potential features — emerged on a regular basis. Gibbs and others shared details as they felt they could.

Now, nothing.

"They've gone off the air," said Tom Townes, managing partner with Triad Commercial Properties, who is not involved with the project. "This is not one bit unusual."

For weeks now, those once intimately involved with the proposed complex have grown increasingly tight-lipped, either because the developer has cut them out of the planning process or because they've signed confidentiality agreements, which limit their freedom to comment.

The list includes DGI officials and board members, downtown property owners and key city representatives.

"I some day will be able to talk about it, but I can't right now," said Mayor Keith Holliday, who signed a confidentiality agreement June 18. "This is a real, viable project that has me keeping my fingers crossed .... It's off the charts as far as I am concerned."

Efforts to control information come at a time when the developer has begun to narrow the search for a site, whittling at least four options down to one or two.

That means the project could produce little news until a contract on a preferred site has been negotiated and signed.

"I think there are a lot of moving parts in assembling any land for a large project, especially downtown," said Marc Isaacson, a real estate attorney who has been briefed on the project. "Everyone needs to be patient and let the process work .... Things don't happen overnight."

The project, which still doesn't have a publicly disclosed name, has been unusual for at least two reasons.

One is its scope. Gibbs has said the development, if it gets built, could range from $50 million to more than $200 million, produce 300-400 jobs and consist of three to seven buildings. He has called it "potentially ... the biggest deal we have seen."

Another is that plans became public. Most development projects fly beneath the radar until a developer has to request rezoning or submit a site plan to a local government.

Typically, developers say, only about a third of the projects they consider ever get built. Those that never materialize do so for a variety of reasons, including lack of financing, environmental issues or an inability to acquire the land.

"Until all the loose ends of a project can be tied down, it is in the best interest of everyone involved to treat (the project) with as much confidentially as possible," Townes said. "The entire success of the project can hinge on (it)."

"Nobody wants to kill the goose that laid the golden egg," said Keith Debbage, an urban development professor at UNCG, who is familiar with the project. "This could be the next big step for the center city."

The project could go on one of several downtown sites.

Those include Guilford-County-owned property at 201 N. Eugene St., the former North State Chevrolet dealership north of First Horizon Park, land along the east side of Church Street at East Market Street and East Friendly Avenue; and the News & Record's rear parking area, bounded by Church, Davie and Washington streets.

It could not be determined if other sites are being considered.

the developers are eyeing the Church Street Property (Duke Power site) It was also said they are scoping out a number of properties which could be why we are hearing reports about an unidentified developer drilling on the Bellmeade site. The developers are looking at additional sites for "secondary projects". One project attracts another. Its like the domino effect. so this thing seems to be pretty big.

Developers eye Church St. property

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GREENSBORO — Developers looking downtown to locate a potential $200 million project have focused attention on property on the east side of Church Street at Market Street and Friendly Avenue.

It could not be determined Thursday if the unidentified developers have made formal offers to buy the land, which covers about 9 acres in two blocks.

But Skip Moore, president of the Weaver Foundation, which owns 4.3 acres at the site, said he's been approached by the developers, who have expressed interest in the foundation's property.

"Any discussions at this point are very preliminary," Moore said Thursday. "People should not read into that any more than what I said. ... I don't know if this is the preferred site. ... They may be interested in lots of property."

The foundation purchased its portion of the site last December from Duke Power for $1 million.

"We bought it to hold it for future development downtown," Moore said. " ... We bought it to bank it."

Ray Gibbs, the former president of Downtown Greensboro Inc., would not comment on the developers' interest in that site or any others.
"They are trying to acquire contracts on various properties," Gibbs said Thursday. "What becomes the preferred is something to be determined."

But Gibbs did say the developers may be interested in acquiring additional property around a particular site for what he described as "secondary projects."

"There are other investors who would likely look at things if one (project) goes up," Gibbs said. "It is like having an empty lot next to your house. You are trying to buy it to protect your property and influence what is going on it."

Gibbs, who now works for a private company near Charlotte, would not elaborate.

Others who own property at the Church/Market/Friendly site either could not be reached for comment Thursday or said they have not been contacted by the developer.

"I have not heard anything from anybody," said Milton Kern, who owns two buildings in the 300 block of East Market Street. "If I did know any more, I wouldn't tell you."

Other property owners at the site include the city of Greensboro and Lincoln National.

The developers have considered at least four sites for the project, which could include entertainment venues, restaurants, stores, apartments, condos and a luxury hotel and convention center.

The site sits on the southern edge of the downtown cultural district, a six-block area that includes the Greensboro Cultural Center, the Greensboro Public Library, the Greensboro Historical Museum and the Greensboro Children's Museum. It is one block east of the new Center City Park.

When the project first came to light in May, downtown officials said this site would help connect downtown to the East Market Street community.
In late May, Gibbs indicated that a preferred site existed and that an offer to purchase, called a letter of intent, could be sent out in a week to 10 days. More than a month has passed since then.

"It's the normal hoops and changes of real estate," Gibbs said, in explaining the delay. "It is a constantly moving target."

He added: "One major thing could go wrong and the whole thing could be over. ... I wish we could just kind of sit back for a while and let things simmer and see if something comes of it."

^^Awesome. Hopefully, they'll release all of the details real soon. :)

Also, will you quit saying Ray Gibbs cityboi? It is driving me :nuts:

Also, will you quit saying Ray Gibbs cityboi? It is driving me :nuts:

LOL...what about RG?

^^That works. :lol: I want MORE information on the super duper almost orgasmic mixed use secret downtown project thing. Hopefully, it will turn out to be similiar or even bigger than this: http://thepointgreenville.com/location.html Do you know what something like that could do for a downtown region? :eek:

Nice project!, although I dont think Greensboro's project would cover that much acreage. They are looking at between 4 and 12 acres, maybe a little more if the developers aquire land for "secondary projects".

^^So, they would have to go taller then. :)

^^So, they would have to go taller then. :)

I think to have all that is proposed, there would likely be some tall buildings. we know the proposal calls for a high-rise hotel but maybe we could see highrise condos, apartments and office. RG said it would be a "cluster of mid and high-rises"

^^RG. You remembered. :lol:

^^RG. You remembered. :lol:

LOL pretty soon you'll get sick of RG and I wont know what to call him.....His name could be a symbol like Prince LOL

^^I think it's hilarious how far you guys are taking this on UP. :lol: