...continued from the old thread.

Here's a link to the previous thread:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=403452


http://kukoda.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/_images_nfl_buffalo_bills2.jpg

http://bwwd.org/Images/BWINGS1.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/26/61047929_9667e894f3_o.jpg

Wow, nice aerial - where's that from?

The sky.

Pierce Building conversion complete

Business First of Buffalo - 3:29 PM EST Tuesdayby James FinkBusiness First

Downtown Buffalo's newest apartment/ mixed-use complex will make its formal debut on Wednesday night.

Local developer Ron Alsheimer and his company, the Plaza Group, will be unveiling the Pierce Building ay 653 Main St. during special ceremonies.

Alsheimer, who bought the two-story, 18,000-square-foot building two years ago, spent the better part of year renovating the circa 1921 structure.

The property includes four apartments, ranging in size between 2,000 square feet and 2,200 square feet and 9,000-square-feet of first floor retail and office space.

"Our slogan is there's only four apartments," Alsheimer said.

Midway Jewelers, which has been a tenant in the building for years, will remain on the first floor.

Alsheimer said he is talking with several prospective tenants about the remaining 7,200-square-feet of first floor space.

"We've got a couple who are looking, but there's nothing serious yet," he said.

The project is the first residential complex in Alsheimer's vast real estate portfolio.

With work completed on the Pierce Building, Alsheimer is now focusing on his second residential project, the conversion of a former nursing home at 1040 Delaware Avenue into a market rate apartment complex.

Alsheimer hopes to put 39 units in that building with the apartments coming on line next fall.

those apartments are HUGE. I wonder how much they'll rent for...

those apartments are HUGE. I wonder how much they'll rent for...

$1800- $2200 according to their website.
Buffalo Rising will be touring the units on the 11th- watch for the details plus slide show.

The sky.

Ooooh funny man you.

$1800- $2200 according to their website.
Buffalo Rising will be touring the units on the 11th- watch for the details plus slide show.
$2200 a month for rent...

*sigh*

damn this isn't Manhattan. You could buy a waterfront condo for $2,200/month.

The sky.

Hilarious. Actually, it's from flickr.

So a little birdy who knows somebody on the erie canal harbor commission told me that they are going after retailers like crate & barrel and ikea for the waterfront, along w/ bass pro.

I think it was here that I saw somebody commenting on how people in expensive lofts won't buy from Ikea, but I don't agree with that at all.

When I lived at the Belesario, several of my neighbors bought lots of stuff from ikea, and that's one of the most expensive buildings in the city.

:banana:
Yeah i said that awhile ago! but i said "F" Bass pro and put in Ikea, but if they wanna put both stores there that's fine with me. Is a good source or rumors?

Ikea is NOT coming to Buffalo. Buffalo will probably see Whole Foods and Trader Joe's DECADES before it sees an Ikea. Ikea has traditionally expanded very slowly in the United States compared to other countries where they have stores. As with other national retail and restaurant chains, it will come to Buffalo -- if it does indeed ever come -- only after it has opened stores in the rest of the US. At the rate Ikea is expanding in the US, that means Buffalo will have one in about 2075.

Lies... you're just trying to keep Buffalo down.

Oh wait, we're supposed to hate chains/big boxes like IKEA.

Gah, which side do I support now?!

^^
Not sure about that, Ikea every year has opened more and more stores throughout the US. Take a look:
http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/ikny_splash.html
I remember when there was only a few stores through N. America, now there are three around Toronto alone! Why couldn't Buffalo get an Ikea? . A big out of town name store would work in that area, thats all im saying. Fine bring in something else, im just done with Bass pro!

So a little birdy who knows somebody on the erie canal harbor commission told me that they are going after retailers like crate & barrel and ikea for the waterfront, along w/ bass pro.

I think it was here that I saw somebody commenting on how people in expensive lofts won't buy from Ikea, but I don't agree with that at all.

When I lived at the Belesario, several of my neighbors bought lots of stuff from ikea, and that's one of the most expensive buildings in the city.

IKEA isn't a good fit for a downtown location- look at the Emeryville store (about as urban as they get them) and then tell me it is what you want for the downtown waterfront. Picture a big UPS warehouse painted blue.

^^
Not sure about that, Ikea every year has opened more and more stores throughout the US. Take a look:
http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/ikny_splash.html
I remember when there was only a few stores through N. America, now there are three around Toronto alone! Why couldn't Buffalo get an Ikea? . A big out of town name store would work in that area, thats all im saying. Fine bring in something else, im just done with Bass pro!


Watcha mean you're done with them- they're just about to get started!

:lol: ^^
Whats your name... Masiello?

I hope your right, im just sick of the empty promises and how the city is "trying to catch the big one" to "lure" them in! They've been saying its been coming to the Aud for over two years. I feel that if Bass pro doesnt come here, we just wasted 2 years bull shitting the city. We could have tried to get another store or something else for the Aud. Why put all our eggs in one basket?

Ikea is NOT coming to Buffalo. Buffalo will probably see Whole Foods and Trader Joe's DECADES before it sees an Ikea. Ikea has traditionally expanded very slowly in the United States compared to other countries where they have stores. As with other national retail and restaurant chains, it will come to Buffalo -- if it does indeed ever come -- only after it has opened stores in the rest of the US. At the rate Ikea is expanding in the US, that means Buffalo will have one in about 2075.I don't know, If I told you 9 months ago that an Arab Billionaire would come to Buffalo in less than a year and invest half a Billion dollars, and propose building the Tallest building in NYS outside NYC, and in fact pick Buffalo OVER NYC for investment, you'd have laughed me into Lake Erie. NOW, Buffalo can't get an Ikea?......We'll see about that!:)

:lol: ^^
Whats your name... Masiello?

I hope your right, im just sick of the empty promises and how the city is "trying to catch the big one" to "lure" them in! They've been saying its been coming to the Aud for over two years. I feel that if Bass pro doesnt come here, we just wasted 2 years bull shitting the city. We could have tried to get another store or something else for the Aud. Why put all our eggs in one basket?2 years? Try sense 2003.

Buffalo has the preception- and deservedly so- of being economically depressed. Because of that, you have retailers and other companies that hesitate to expand or move into the area. I think when some do (think Southwest) they get pleasantly surprised and probably wonder why they didn't move in sooner. Ikea would probably do well in Buffalo, if not down at the waterfront, then somewhere else. The UB area comes to mind. It's their loss for not being there now.

Ikea depends on you being able to drive away with you crap. Their model does not work in a downtown location.

Then how about somewhere in the cobblestone or Larkin district?

Ikea is NOT coming to Buffalo. Buffalo will probably see Whole Foods and Trader Joe's DECADES before it sees an Ikea. Ikea has traditionally expanded very slowly in the United States compared to other countries where they have stores. As with other national retail and restaurant chains, it will come to Buffalo -- if it does indeed ever come -- only after it has opened stores in the rest of the US. At the rate Ikea is expanding in the US, that means Buffalo will have one in about 2075.

lol, I guess the same can go for crate & barrel.

Ikea depends on you being able to drive away with you crap. Their model does not work in a downtown location.

Exactly.

If anywhere in the city, a store like Ikea would work best in an industrial area like the Larkin District.

Although Ikea is unlikely here, many forget that when it comes to shopping, southern Ontario is a part of WNY.

So a little birdy who knows somebody on the erie canal harbor commission told me that they are going after retailers like crate & barrel and ikea for the waterfront, along w/ bass pro.

Your little birdy is smart.

Your little birdy is smart.

do you know something that we don't, donbuy?

Buffalo has the preception- and deservedly so- of being economically depressed. Because of that, you have retailers and other companies that hesitate to expand or move into the area. I think when some do (think Southwest) they get pleasantly surprised and probably wonder why they didn't move in sooner. ....
This is the exact reason the city gives for spending effort on Bass Pro. Nobody wants to be the first downtown. But once there's a big anchor store, suddenly other businesses get interested.

It's that initial spark that's been missing.

Whether Bass Pro or this particular contract is the right solution is another story. But seeding downtown with the right big business has its merits.

Ikea is NOT coming to Buffalo. Buffalo will probably see Whole Foods and Trader Joe's DECADES before it sees an Ikea. Ikea has traditionally expanded very slowly in the United States compared to other countries where they have stores. As with other national retail and restaurant chains, it will come to Buffalo -- if it does indeed ever come -- only after it has opened stores in the rest of the US. At the rate Ikea is expanding in the US, that means Buffalo will have one in about 2075.

There is one in Pittsburgh...so the possibility certainly exists that they could open here. The only reason why they may not expand here has nothing to do with perceptions of Buffalo, but instead the fact that we have one 45 minutes up the QEW and another one 20 more minutes up the QEW. Damn, talk about being mr. pessimism, mr. defeatism, mr. toss-in-the-towel-before-it-gets-started, are you sure DT didn't get on your computer? haha

I don't know, If I told you 9 months ago that an Arab Billionaire would come to Buffalo in less than a year and invest half a Billion dollars, and propose building the Tallest building in NYS outside NYC, and in fact pick Buffalo OVER NYC for investment, you'd have laughed me into Lake Erie. NOW, Buffalo can't get an Ikea?......We'll see about that!:)

Several months ago, if any guy named Basheer had expressed interest in tall buildings in Buffalo, many would probably have panicked to homeland security about a would-be terrorist! Remarkable how in so short a time, an immigrant with Arabian Gulf roots has become the biggest hope for Buffalo’s skyline! No big surprise to those of us who have wanted rising skylines of cities like Kuwait or Dubai. Just goes to show what can happen when ignorant stereotypes give way to reality…Lets not get those hopes too high. Too early to tell though, it’s a speculative proposal, the local office & condo market is not huge, lets wait & see what happens.

Several months ago, if any guy named Basheer had expressed interest in tall buildings in Buffalo, many would probably have panicked to homeland security about a would-be terrorist! Remarkable how in so short a time, an immigrant with Arabian Gulf roots has become the biggest hope for Buffalo’s skyline! No big surprise to those of us who have wanted rising skylines of cities like Kuwait or Dubai. Just goes to show what can happen when ignorant stereotypes give way to reality.
... he's not an immigrant. ;)

... he's not an immigrant. ;)

Oh yes he is. His family immigrated from Kuwait to the UK. If by chance he settles over here, he will be at least twice an immigrant!

Oh yes he is. His family immigrated from Kuwait to the UK. If by chance he settles over here, he will be at least twice an immigrant!

Shortest Bayviews post ever! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Kuwait or Dubai can keep their skylines and the large cities they come with. Otherwise, I agree.

IKEA sucks about as bad as Wal-Mart :)

Kuwait or Dubai can keep their skylines and the large cities they come with. Otherwise, I agree.


Oh, don't worry about Buffalo's skyline becoming another Kuwait or Dubai, no chance in the world of that happening!

Not in this country, no. And Hallelujah to that.

But who'd've thunk those cities would have exploded like they did, especially when compared to a hundred years ago. Talk about oppressed backwater afterthought economies.

Not in this country, no. And Hallelujah to that.

But who'd've thunk those cities would have exploded like they did, especially when compared to a hundred years ago. Talk about oppressed backwater afterthought economies.

Even compared to a few decades ago! Of course Kuwait has come back strong from bad damage just 15 years ago. Dubai isn't blessed with as much oil wealth as other the UAEs, but its sure on the path to becoming the Singapore of the Middle East.

:blahblah:
Even compared to a few decades ago! Of course Kuwait has come back strong from bad damage just 15 years ago. Dubai isn't blessed with as much oil wealth as other the UAEs, but its sure on the path to becoming the Singapore of the Middle East.
:blahblah:

Watcha mean you're done with them- they're just about to get started!


Real blah!

We might be getting some bad economic news here soon. I just got a frantic text from a friend who works for Time Warner saying that they are shutting down Adelphia's old HQ and operations in Coudersport, PA. Buffalo's call center (which employees around 1,000, I believe) could be next.

We might be getting some bad economic news here soon. I just got a frantic text from a friend who works for Time Warner saying that they are shutting down Adelphia's old HQ and operations in Coudersport, PA. Buffalo's call center (which employees around 1,000, I believe) could be next.


I thought they were on the hook to maintain those jobs- at least for their ECIDA financing and maybe their franchise agreement with the City of Buffalo (????). Coudersport can't be surprised about the HQ leaving.

They'll all lose their jobs anyways if TWC keeps up the wonderful service gaffes they've been becoming known for around here. You can tell they know they're in hot water by the ad-bombing propaganda lately (such as calling $52.95 a "low" price for TV, when in fact it's the most expensive basic package money can buy).

If they let the Sinclair/FOX contract go, Sionara! Those jobs will leave, but they won't be going anywhere.

I thought Adelphia moved their HQ to Denver back in 2003-2004. Or maybe that was just when the agreement took place. idk kinda complicated process i suppose.

Several months ago, if any guy named Basheer had expressed interest in tall buildings in Buffalo, many would probably have panicked to homeland security about a would-be terrorist! Remarkable how in so short a time, an immigrant with Arabian Gulf roots has become the biggest hope for Buffalo’s skyline! No big surprise to those of us who have wanted rising skylines of cities like Kuwait or Dubai. Just goes to show what can happen when ignorant stereotypes give way to reality…Lets not get those hopes too high. Too early to tell though, it’s a speculative proposal, the local office & condo market is not huge, lets wait & see what happens.

Put a sock in it already...That's because we don't care what race or ethnicity someone is, like you do. You're obsessed with everyone's ethnicity, who cares!! He wants to invest in the number 2 city of the Empire State...he deserves a big Buffalo welcome at the very least. And if I had it my way, I'd have a statue of him built (only if the Issa tower gets built). God, ur one to talk, randomly accusing people of racism that obviously never materialized while you sit up in your million dollar San Fran condo overlooking the bay.

I always thought bayviews was from Wisconsin

^ he refuses to disclose his location after numerous forumers (including myself) requested to know what city he lives in. So I just looked at his post history and he spends much of his time in the San Francisco threads pretending to be an "expert" on race relations for that city too.

I think bayviews reads too much stuff from people like bayviews, he enjoys a nice view of the bay...which one I dunno...but I'm sure its from a condo or apartment in a city that he does not get out to enjoy much of.

thats my take.

and about Issa...if he was going to terror camps, giving money to terror cells or supporting groups...flags would have been thrown by now. Anyone with half a brain knows that not all the Islamic population is crazed holy war loving bomb laiden freaks...but if he was a white guy, or even a black guy Bayviews would say nothing about his ethnic background. Odd, no...blinded...YES.

His name is Bashar, not Basheer. Unless it's one of those dialect or variant things, i.e. Chris - Kris or Jon - John, etc.

bayviews, already trashing the poor guys name...how ethnocentric :ohno:

I just got a frantic text from a friend who works for Time Warner saying that they are shutting down Adelphia's old HQ and operations in Coudersport, PA. Buffalo's call center (which employees around 1,000, I believe) could be next.
Man, I hope not.

Time Warner so far has brought nothing but bad news to Buffalo! Bad service, rude representatives, eliminating channels...

Remember when they promised Free Premium Channels for a week to make up for the poor response during the storm? Everyone assumed it would be something cool like HBO... turns out it was some crappy family/kids channel I never even heard of...

I told myself a while back that I would switch from Verizon DSL to TW Road Runner as soon as I could because I hated Verizon. Well I can't believe it, but I think I hate TW more than Verizon now... Good Grief.

I told myself a while back that I would switch from Verizon DSL to TW Road Runner as soon as I could because I hated Verizon. Well I can't believe it, but I think I hate TW more than Verizon now... Good Grief.
Don't do it. I "downgraded" to DSL, the cheap package even, and I hardly notice the difference. At first I was getting booted alot, but then I moved the modem and it's mostly stopped (must have been getting interference from the computer). I obviously don't know what you use it for, but if it's mostly just for web, mail, and the occasional download or game (even Pogo is fine), it's not worth paying 3x, believe me. If I didn't have a dirt cheap 11-month intro offer, I'd be kicking myself for not switching sooner.

I hate Verizon too, just from all the money they wasted informing us of how to pronounce their name back when they were formed. Some millions of dollars (I forget how much) that could have instead invested in service improvements or rate cuts. No, we needed to know it was a melding of "veritas" (Latin for reliability) and "horizon". But you know, FiOS should kill the cable industry (though by all logic, so too should have satellite), and now I'm in line for it (though I may very well just keep what I have now). I'm not that stupid to pay $45 more just to keep a company I hate a little less.

I'm trying to convince a few guys at work now who are teetering on the fence to drop TWC and go to DirecTV. I get $100 for every referral if I can get any. :lol:

In a way, I'd like to see all Adelphia/TWC attachment removed from this area, that company has been nothing but bad news. A job loss is still a tough swallow, though.

Actually, I've never had real problems with Verizon's DSL service.

What pissed me off was they outright lied to me several times about phone services I was trying to get and had me paying for higher services that I told them I did not want. A year later I finally found the cheaper plan I had originally asked them for, which saved me 15 to 20 bucks a month.

Then there was that incident a month ago where they had to drop a federal fee but then tried to create their own new fee to get easy money from everyone. They quickly had to cancel it when everyone complained.

They just seem like a weasely slimey company. Instead of trying to build customer satisfaction, they try to trick you to pay more money whenever they can.

So I wanted to switch to another broadband provider just on principle, even though DSL has always worked well for me. But also I didn't realize how expensive RR is...

so.. yeah... I'll just have to grit my teeth and deal with Verizon ;)

^^
Not sure about that, Ikea every year has opened more and more stores throughout the US. Take a look:
http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/ikny_splash.html


Just about three to four every year. With metro area like Tucson, Denver, Albuquerque, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Kansas City, St Louis, Houston, San Antonio, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, New Orleans, Charlotte, Raleigh, Jacksonville, Tampa, Richmond, Memphis, and Nashville without Ikea stores, and their infilling of larger markets like LA, Chicago and NYC, it will be a LONG time before Buffalo gets an Ikea - if at all.

H&M announced not too long ago that they would NOT be opening a store in Buffalo. If Buffalo can't even get a lousy H&M while Rochester has two of them -- even UTICA has one -- how does that bode for Ikea in the City of Good Neighbors?

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/1660/hmyt1.png

do you know something that we don't, donbuy?

IKEA and H&M are both tire kicking in WNY. We have given IKEA some demo info, including number of college students, on campus and totals. The usual stuff for a company in it's niche.

No word if anything will come of it tho. Many companies make inquiries for years before anything opens and often times nothing comes of it.

H & M would be perfect for Buffalo. That's a stupid move to not get into that market.

We could have had an H&M at the Walden Galleria a few years ago but supposedly management totally fucked up and kept them out because of some stupid agreement with Gap/Old Navy/Banana Republic.

Fuckin' Gap is the most bland mediocre shit.

So there we go, Buffalo continues to be unhip as ever...

So true, so true...

We could have had an H&M at the Walden Galleria a few years ago but supposedly management totally fucked up and kept them out because of some stupid agreement with Gap/Old Navy/Banana Republic.
Did H&M also pursue Eastern Hills? That mall has been upgrading and was looking for new tenants. That was around the time they got DaveNBusters I think.

You should see the H & M in dowtown San Frnacisco, I don't even go in there becausethe check out line is about 50 deep. they opend another location a few block away. Lot's of the clothes are crap, but they have good deals on some cool stuff. Urban Outfitters is way better.

Maybe I am a fuddy-duddy, but I dreaded my few trips with the wife to IKEA (Emeryville and East Palo Alto). The visit to H&M was a yawner too.

I would still rather see that area take on the types of smaller shops found in Newport, RI or have more of a smalltime Faneuil Hall (Boston) feel.

I've been in the H&M at the Crossgates Mall in Albany...its weak, just another JC Penny or (former) Kauffmans

I'll never understand Buffalo... You all want H&M, Ikea, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's... but you never appreciate what you have!

Here in Boston? I want Tony Walker, the Advantage, Wegmans, Delta Sonic, Mighty Taco, Charlie the Butcher, Ted's, Viola's Subs and Hibbards...

I have Trader Joe's and two Whole Foods within walking distance - and although I go there for good quality meats, vegetables and fruits - I find it, for the most part, incredibly over priced - that you can find the same thing @ Wegmans or your local farmers market.

H&M? I have never purchased anything from this store... ever. Garbage clothing all the way.

Ikea - funny how - this store get's a free pass - considering it's the queen of big box stores with a sea of parking!

H&M - great for high school/college students - if THATS your over the top wannabe urban look.

Whole Foods/Trader Joe's - go to Wegmans or Premiere...

Many of you really need to go live elsewhere... you'll find out the grass is really no greener.

What about those of us who have lived in Cincinnati, D.C., Birmingham, Nashville, Atlanta (I could be considered a resident), Dallas, etc.? ;)

Many of you really need to go live elsewhere... you'll find out the grass is really no greener.
Nope, just different shades of green is all it really is.

I actually own a few t-shirts from H&M. They're OK, BUT... Somehow they've "warped". I can't fold them straight. The hem is twisted about 15° with respect to the neck (i.e. when I wear it, the side seams are not on the sides anymore). I have no idea how that happened, maybe it's just cheap materials. Yet they've held up several years now.

For someone who can be as obsessive-compulsive as I can be when folding my summer clothes up to put away for the winter, you don't understand how frustrating these things can be!! :lol:

What about those of us who have lived in Cincinnati, D.C., Birmingham, Nashville, Atlanta (I could be considered a resident), Dallas, etc.? ;)

And complained about every one of them

Earlier today, I said ...

That's the kind of attitude that often frustrates me. If there's a trend that is everywhere in the country except Buffalo, locals are quick to dismiss that trend as meaningless.
[snip]
I think it's a bit of a defense mechanism.

Since I made that post ...

Maybe I am a fuddy-duddy, but I dreaded my few trips with the wife to IKEA (Emeryville and East Palo Alto). The visit to H&M was a yawner too.

I've been in the H&M at the Crossgates Mall in Albany...its weak, just another JC Penny or (former) Kauffmans

H&M? I have never purchased anything from this store... ever. Garbage clothing all the way.

Ikea - funny how - this store get's a free pass - considering it's the queen of big box stores with a sea of parking!

H&M - great for high school/college students - if THATS your over the top wannabe urban look.

Whole Foods/Trader Joe's - go to Wegmans or Premiere...

j02138 is right about one thing; some stores do seem to get a pass. Check out Buffalo Rising; there's little love for the chains, but for some reason Trader Joe's and Ikea are exceptions. Why is Bass Pro bad, but Ikea good? Why is Whole Foods bad, but TJ's good? It is a mystery.

So maybe we should also love and embrace Walmart because we (currently) have blessedly few of them relative to most major metros?

Just because people have opinions on certain stores doesn't make it a defense mechanism. If the three you quoted were from San Fran, LA, and Boston, respectively, and had never even heard of Buffalo and said those, you'd never think twice about it and assume it was an honest, unbiased opinion. As dronish as I think the typical American is, I don't think they all love all these places either.

There are certainly some chains I'd like to see here. The other day I lamented our lack of a Weathervane. Even though it's in vain as we'll never get one simply due to geography. Some of the things we have really do kick ass. For instance, Wegmans (which technically isn't even "ours"). You have people in NoVA tripping over each other to go to one, yet we can't boast it as something of our own. How's that? Then there are some local chains (or at least I associate them as being local based on not knowing where else they may be), such as Shannor Electric and Fantastic Sam's that for all I care could disappear from the face of the earth.

But no, anybody from Buffalo who criticizes any other city's offerings is instantly branded as having a defense mechanism. And yet we always complain about negative perception.

That's the kind of attitude that often frustrates me. If there's a trend that is everywhere in the country except Buffalo, locals are quick to dismiss that trend as meaningless.
[snip]
I think it's a bit of a defense mechanism.

Who says H&M is some kind of cool trend that is sweeping the nation? That store's been around forever. We don't have one here right now, so what, that's not to say we'll never get one...not worth losing sleep over. We have tons of other clothing places. Same goes with Ikea, its been around for years. If these places don't wanna come to Buff, they don't wanna come...whatever then, I'll just drive 45 mins to Burlington.

Cyb

Where do you get the idea that Buffalo Rising is against chains? You are just making that up. BRO is against suburbanization and certainly promotes local business but is not at all against chains....unless of course you want to plop a Rite Aid on Gates Circle...I would hardly describe that as being against chains.

Buffalo Rising is highly pro...I repeat..Highly pro.... smart urban development in the city period. Smart urban development includes a healthy mixture of all types of retail,commercial, entertainment, and residential development!

That's the kind of attitude that often frustrates me. If there's a trend that is everywhere in the country except Buffalo, locals are quick to dismiss that trend as meaningless.
[snip]
I think it's a bit of a defense mechanism.
"a trend that is everywhere in the country except Buffalo"...

I think it makes perfect sense to hold off enthusiasm for trends that won't do anything to actually improve our area.

You want us all to do flips and cheers for what? A suburban Lifestyle Center?

please...

We want the real thing. Urban development. If we get a lifestyle center in Amherst. Fine. But who really cares? I'm not against it. I'm entirely neutral towards it.

It doesn't mean we're all against it or being defensive. It means that you are focusing in on a little piece of suburban development that is almost insignificant in the big picture.

double post ....

Buffalo is getting Maurices, they are already here in Batavia

this is a Chicago chain, and I have yet to see them in ROC or SYR.

Ikea is SHIT anyways, I like Kmart.

Buffalo is getting Maurices, they are already here in Batavia

Maurice's is just a lower-middle end chain. It's owned by Dress Barn. They tend to locate in shopping centers with Wal-Mart and the like, not high-end centers. Besides, it's already just about everywhere (http://www.maurices.com/finder/index.cfm).

Dress Barn?! When will we get Fashion Bug?

We might be getting some bad economic news here soon. I just got a frantic text from a friend who works for Time Warner saying that they are shutting down Adelphia's old HQ and operations in Coudersport, PA. Buffalo's call center (which employees around 1,000, I believe) could be next.


Time Warner Cable cutting 500 jobs in Pa.
Coudersport call center is being closed

Time Warner Cable will close its Coudersport, Pa., call center in early February, erasing 500 jobs in the community about 80 miles south of Buffalo.

The calls from TV and Internet customers will be rerouted to Time Warner's existing call centers, including one in Buffalo, spokeswoman Maureen Huff said.

The job cut "won't affect even one employee in Buffalo," she said. Time Warner employs about 660 call center workers in the Buffalo area.

...

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061208/1070247.asp

Good news.

Dress Barn?! When will we get Fashion Bug?

Fashion Bug is just a trend. Their clothes are polyester shit. I'd rather go to Rainbow Stores.

There's a Dollar Tree opening on Harlem Road, though! Take that, you naysayers! Talking proud!

Seriously, good to hear about TW.

We want the real thing. Urban development. If we get a lifestyle center in Amherst. Fine. But who really cares? I'm not against it. I'm entirely neutral towards it.

If you're a girl at a high school party, and the boys are asking everyone but you to dance, something's wrong.

MOD Can you merge this message with the one above? Thanks.

Cyb,

Hmm, I lived in the San Fran Bay area for 10 years. I give my opinion on the local H&M and Ikea stores and I am tagged as being a defensive Buffalo local. WOW!!!

If you're a girl at a high school party, and the boys are asking everyone but you to dance, something's wrong.
That doesn't mean the girl should dance with any geek that happens to ask her.

If you're a girl at a high school party, and the boys are asking everyone but you to dance, something's wrong.

MOD Can you merge this message with the one above? Thanks.

The girls in high school wouldn't look at me. Thing is...All the jocks that they liked back then are now over weight and bald and I am not doing too badly. Reunions are sweet revenge. I wonder how those life style centers will age.

You don't get from "Nobody will dance with me" to "The most popular person on the block" by doing nothing, or waiting for the other girls to fall apart.

Remember, I'm not saying "OMG Buffalo NEEDS a lifestyle center!!!". I'm lamenting the fact that nobody is interested in building them, or at least building one to the standards of those in other regions. It's an indicator that something isn't right.

Holy shit, this thread went down hill fast! What ever, bring in some new store and we'll all be happy... right?:nuts:

Well since this is a development thread, is there any new news of anything? Whats the % of the Issa Tower at now?

Holy shit, this thread went down hill fast! What ever, bring in some new store and we'll all be happy... right?:nuts:

Of course, because a few (unnamed) people destroy every thread they post in. They're not interested in development they're interested making sure they convince everyone here that we need as many new big box stores with as many parking spaces as possible. Just so we can fit in with how (allegedly) cool Nashville is...all we need are the trailor parks to go with the 50 wal-marts and we'll officially fit in with Nashville.

Remember, I'm not saying "OMG Buffalo NEEDS a lifestyle center!!!". I'm lamenting the fact that nobody is interested in building them, or at least building one to the standards of those in other regions. It's an indicator that something isn't right.

Quick f**king complaining about it and do something about it if you're so concerned. You're not saying anything new here...yes blah blah blah Amherst has no standards and neither does Benderson, we know this. While you and DT obsess over how many chains don't come to our suburbs (cuz we're oversaturated by their competitors), the rest of us are concerned for the well-being and the future of our center city....and searching for things we can do revive the city. When the center city (Buffalo) gets better it will strengthen the region (including your favorite suburbs) and your favorite strip plazas will start popping up like crazy again.

Buffalo is getting Maurices, they are already here in Batavia.

There has been one in Lockport for a couple of years now too. We also have an Olympia Sporting Goods store. They have a few other area locations too.

You don't get from "Nobody will dance with me" to "The most popular person on the block" by doing nothing, or waiting for the other girls to fall apart.

Remember, I'm not saying "OMG Buffalo NEEDS a lifestyle center!!!". I'm lamenting the fact that nobody is interested in building them, or at least building one to the standards of those in other regions. It's an indicator that something isn't right.


Or its an indicator that something hasn't been right. I think everyone in Buffalo already knows that. But thanks for informaing them anyway.

The state has a new governor. perhaps a step toward changing the backward government of the state. The city is starting to recognize its historic assets. The city has Billions of $$$ of new development in the pipeline. The state has finally stepped forward to realign to over saturated medical system. UB has finally recognized that it needs a city presence to grow the university. The city now has some small but strong and growing business districts and surrounding hoods. The city has multiple active citizens groups working to save valuable neighborhoods. Indications of a turn around that may lead to actual population growth. Only time will tell. Form my perspective Buffalo has definitely turned a corner. What will the sprawltropolises have to hang their hat on once they age, once their amortization period has elapsed? There is not going to be much of anything worth anything in some of these cities the way we build today. Buffalo may just be very well positioned once these shinny new cities start balding. In any event I find harping on the negative to be boring since that is the only thing the city and nation have done with regard to Buffalo for the last 40 years. The BRO people you seem to look down no Cyb are being proactive to improve the city. What are you doing?

Maurice's is just a lower-middle end chain. It's owned by Dress Barn. They tend to locate in shopping centers with Wal-Mart and the like, not high-end centers. Besides, it's already just about everywhere (http://www.maurices.com/finder/index.cfm).

well whats the god damned difference? its all made in Southeast asia anyways.

If you wanna get better clothes go to Banana Republic or Abercrombe and Fitch, even Macy's or Hollister.

I don't buy all this shit about H&M, Maurices and how they are all so much different, clothes are also in the CONSUMER market so they are going to make clothes shitty enough that you will eventually have to buy more.

wanna buy something once? buy Wollrich or Carhart...even Levi Strauss.

Fashion Bug is just a trend. Their clothes are polyester shit. I'd rather go to Rainbow Stores.

Well we have both Fashion Bug and Rainbow. I guess everything's really OK then.

That doesn't mean the girl should dance with any geek that happens to ask her.

Otherwise, it's akin to taking a date (development) for the sake of a date (development).

My head is spinning.

There has been one in Lockport for a couple of years now too. We also have an Olympia Sporting Goods store. They have a few other area locations too.
Same with Panera, right? Now there's one in O.P. and without announcement (that I saw at least) a new one opening up attached to Dollar Tree at the McKinley Mall. Why so close, I didn't think they were the type to sprout like weeds like, say, McDonald's? Only other one I ever saw was Concord, though I knew they were big.

Did they ever officially announce that condo on the waterfront? The Paladino Buffalo meets Ft. Lauderdale thing?

Here's an idea, let's not talk about random retail stores until they ACTUALLY open in the area or announce that they are. Then they can be considered development and have a place in a DEVELOPMENT thread. :hammer:

Oh and for those complaining about or discussing Buffalo's lack of lifestyle centers there was an announcement a while back about one coming to Maple Road near UB (on the site of the Buffalo Gun Club?). I didn't look up a source because it would mean I gave some kind of shit about lifestyle centers and we all should have remembered it anyway.

Here's an idea, let's not talk about random retail stores until they ACTUALLY open in the area or announce that they are. Then they can be considered development and have a place in a DEVELOPMENT thread. :hammer:
...

GREAT IDEA!

or at the very least PLEASE move it to the non-development thread.
it's not rocket science.

Did they ever officially announce that condo on the waterfront? The Paladino Buffalo meets Ft. Lauderdale thing?

From what I understand it is supposed to be in January's print version of Business First, but I'm not sure though about its status with the city. Maybe westcoast can shed a little light on it.

From what I understand it is supposed to be in January's print version of Business First, but I'm not sure though about its status with the city. Maybe westcoast can shed a little light on it.

The waterfront condo pic and story was published in last week's Biz First. I'll be posting on it on BRising after they receive their Planning Board approvals (week from next Tuesday) I'm waiting on images from Ellicott Development.

Has there been any recent updates on these 3:

- Genesee Buildings
- AM&A's renovations
- Dulski renovations

(not sure if it was already asked.... can't find it in the thread)

Has there been any recent updates on these 3:

- Genesee Buildings
- AM&A's renovations
- Dulski renovations

(not sure if it was already asked.... can't find it in the thread)

Genesee- Stay tuned- Exciting plans coming together for this block- two buyers are involved. It'll truly be mixed use.

AM&As- Stirring- watch for details soon. They're looking to start gutting the property next year. And, they want help with parking.

Dulski- Silence, but it's early. They haven't even officially closed on the property.

Awesome. Can't wait for them to get started.

not to get too ahead of ourselves with the proposed Issa Tower...but will they be announcing certain benchmarks (i.e. 20% leased, 30% leased, etc...) or will we kinda sit in the dark for a couple years like with Bass Pro wondering when/if it will ever happen?

The internal construction is coming along nicely on the new Rocco lofts on Ellicott Street. haha I was just d**king around in there in the middle of the night cuz I was over "visiting" a friend at the IS Lofts and I was trapped. The gate at the IS Lofts had no handle or anything to open it (felt like i was in Back to the Future 2) so I looked over toward the new loft development and I saw daylight! Took me a few minutes to scurry over some wires and some stacks of lumber but sure enough victory was mine. I fairly easily made it to Ellicott Street. This also allowed me to avoid having to round the corner of Oak/Genessee Street...I had been hastled a couple times earlier in the night by a gang of 6 bums.

Hmm, was your away message any indication of the nature of the visit? :D

I had been hastled a couple times earlier in the night by a gang of 6 bums.

gang of six bums? i've never heard of such a thing. they are usually pretty defensive about the corner/area from which they beg.

hmmm we could call it.. ..beg-pooling. i wonder if they are union.

I haven't seen/heard anything on here or on BRO about the Lofts @ Northpark...I drove by them a couple weeks ago and they were about finished renovating the church into luxury apts and they looked super nice. I know it isn't downtown but its still in the city. They're right accross the street from my former middle school, P.S.#66 North Park Academy.

Drove by the Health Now building today. It looks a lot better in reality than the rendering did. the building is actually much closer to the street than it appeared in the drawings.

I haven't seen/heard anything on here or on BRO about the Lofts @ Northpark...I drove by them a couple weeks ago and they were about finished renovating the church into luxury apts and they looked super nice. I know it isn't downtown but its still in the city. They're right accross the street from my former middle school, P.S.#66 North Park Academy.


http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/10/lofts_at_north_park_1.php

:)

sweet

http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/10/lofts_at_north_park_1.php

:)

Its funny, you'll often post links to recent interesting stories from BRO...yet I go to BRO everyday and I always miss them, but I only go to the "City" channel so maybe some of these were originally in a different channel.

The other channels are pretty interesting and provide a lot of info on stuff happening in the city

Hmmmm...interesting new casino rendering

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/5909/1210casinofo0.jpg

Were you working late again, steel? Bored? ;)

Hmmmm...interesting new casino rendering

where did u get this?

Actually that rendering is older than the one published in the Buffalo News a few months ago (the same rendering minus hotel tower).

Just saw a commercial on tv for "50 Court" Paladino's building.

"900,000 people live within 20 minutes of downtown"
"This will be downtown's premiere office building"

The News says the new Seneca president has an itch to stick it to the Government. I am guessing a new hotel in Buff will be part of that strategy.

^ well a new scraper along side the 190 will look nice.

^ it will sure look nice, but also destroy the rest of the downtown hotel market.

The Adam's Mark and Hyatt have already destroyed the downtown hotel market.

Just saw a commercial on tv for "50 Court" Paladino's building.

"900,000 people live within 20 minutes of downtown"
"This will be downtown's premiere office building"

TV commercial?!?! For an office building? I've never seen one of those.

The Adam's Mark and Hyatt have already destroyed the downtown hotel market.

Whatever happened to the purchase and rebranding of the Hyatt?

TV commercial?!?! For an office building? I've never seen one of those.

I swear to God...a 30 second commercial with some blond woman sitting and talking about the 50 Court building with all those renderings we've seen flashing behind her.

what channel are they on??? I havent seen any

what channel are they on??? I havent seen any
Once during the Bills game, and once during the game before the Bills game. I posted at 4:16pm, which was in the middle of the second time I saw that commercial, right after the Bills game started.

idk if anyone has seen this over on the city's website. It's one of those complilation lists of all the projects in Buffalo and their status. It was updated last week to include numerous recently announced projects and to change the status of a couple projects.

http://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/files/1_2_1/SPlanning/ListOfProjects/List%20Buff%20Dev%20102306.pdf

CURRENT CITY DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS
2006
MAYOR BYRON W. BROWN
Project Status * Cost
1 Cobblestone Lofts Office: 26 Mississippi Street-Mixed-Use: renovation - office C 3,500,000$
2 Lofts at Cobblestone: 30-50 Mississippi: renovation, mixed-use retail & residential; 36 units UC 12,500,000$
3 New Era Headquarters, 160 Delaware Ave. C 10,000,000$
4 285 Delaware Avenue, Uniland Development-New Office building UC 12,000,000$
5 50 Court Street , new office building PL 40,000,000$
6 Cobey Inc., new manufacturing facility; Buffalo Lakeside Commerce Park; 1 Ship Canal Pkwy. SC 10,000,000$
7 HealthNow Headquarters, 457 W. Genesee St.; new construction, office UC 110,000,000$
8 Bass Pro Outdoor World Store PL 60,000,000$
9 Elmwood Avenue Hotel PR -$
10 IS Lofts Downtown Housing, 362 Oak Street, 24 units, reconstruction) C 5,000,000$
11 Artspace, 1219 Main Street, reconstruction, 60 apts. UC 17,500,000$
12 Granite Works; 844-864 Main Street, mixed-use project, reconstruction C 8,000,000$
13 Waterfront Village Housing Project; new construction AP 12,500,000$
14 Lenox Hotel Renovation; reconstruction PL 5,000,000$
15 Pierce Building, 653 Main Street; reconstruction UC 500,000$
16 Sodexho Laundry, 60 Grider Street (Curtiss Wright) UC 2,700,000$
17 Glenny Drive/Kensington Heights Retirement Community PR 80,000,000$
18 AIDS Community Services, Elmwood Avenue project PR 7,000,000$
19 Hydro-Air Company, 100 Abby St., new manufacturing facility UC 7,500,000$
20 Delaware & Linden Retail Plaza (Tim Horton's, IHOP, Credit Union; 2240-2300 Delaware) UC 5,500,000$
21 504 Elmwood Avenue in-fill mixed-use project C 3,000,000$
22 504 Washington Street PR 1,000,000$
23 Guaranty Bldg, 30 Church Street; renovations UC 12,000,000$
24 Desiderios Food Warehouse, 530 Bailey Ave., new construction-warehouse & office expansion UC 2,100,000$
25 New Office Building, 227 Niagara Street PL 550,000$
26 Senior Apt with parking, 257 Virginia Street PL 2,000,000$
27 Apt Bldg conversion with Day Care, 92 Pearl Street PL 9,200,000$
28 Human Service Facility, 1924 Bailey Ave PL 1,500,000$
29 Paper Recycling Bldg, 12 Metcalf PL 570,000$
30 Loft Conversion, 686 Main Street (Birzon Building); renovation, mixed-use PL 1,500,000$
31 Plaza Expansion, 2635 Delaware Ave (Plaza Group) UC 750,000$
32 First Niagara Bank buildout, 726 Exchange C 578,430$
33 Tops renovation, 2101 Elmwood Ave. UC 650,000$
34 Medical Bldg, Building C, 100 High Street UC 980,000$
35 Union Hall, CWA Local 1133, 821 Elk Street AP 700,000$
36 WNY Medical Arts Bldg. Phase I; new construction, Medical Office, 700 Michigan Ave. C 2,000,000$
37 Tenant Build Out, 20 East Huron Street UC 800,000$
38 Masonry Addition, 1 Bud Mil PL 750,000$
39 499 Washington, Reconstruction, 82 units UC 2,500,000$
40 937 Broadway, Reconstruction, 43 units UC 2,250,000$
41 100 Seneca Street, renovation for NYSDOT UC 2,489,000$
42 St. John Phase I (Fruitbelt), 10 units new housing construction UC 1,506,880$
43 St. John Phase II (Fruitbelt), 10 new housing construction PL 2,200,000$
44 St. John Townhomes, 28 units, new construction PR 6,000,000$
45 Bethel Phases I-II; 18 new housing construction (Ada & Elsie Streets) UC 2,525,000$
46 HoZo-New Opportunities; 19 new housing construction (Kane, Camp & Davis Streets) UC 3,050,000$
47 East Side Opportunities; 30 units new housing construction (Dodge Street) UC 6,000,000$
48 Sycamore Village; 48 units, new housing construction (Kang, Kemp & Davis Streets) PL 7,200,000$
49 The Packard Building, Main & Riley UC 8,932,000$
50 Shoreline Apartments, housing renovation PL 10,700,000$
51 Statler Building Renovation, 107 Delaware Ave.; mixed-use: hotel, office, housing PR 80,000,000$
52 Electric Tower, 535 Washington Street, office; renovation UC 11,300,000$
53 Old Metroplex Renovation, 723 Main Street SC 1,500,000$
54 Seneca Paper, 210 Ellicott Street, renovation/conversion, housing UC 6,800,000$
55 Phoenix House-564 Delaware Avenue (Moscati), renovation UC 1,040,000$
56 599 Delaware Avenue (FDA Building), renovation, R&D Facility C 2,500,000$
57 RiverWright Ethanol Plant PR 80,000,000$
58 Greystone Apartments, 24 Johnson Park; conversion, residential; 33 units UC 7,000,000$
59 AM&A's Redevelopment, renovation, mixed-use PR -$
60 Ellicott Commons, 465 Ellicott; residential; new construction; 30 units UC 4,300,000$
61 Dulski Office Building; Mixed-use office and residential; cost TBD PR 6,100,000$
62 33 Gates Circle Condominiums PR 40,000,000$
63 Courtyard Mall, 450-460 Main St.; renovation/conversion; mixed-use ofc. & res. UC 5,500,000$
64 878 Main Street, Zeptometrix; renovation; corporate offices PR 500,000$
65 Center for Transportation Excellence; 401 E. Amherst Street PL 3,000,000$
66 Webb Building; Pearl St.; renovation/conversion; mixed-use; 32 units PR 10,000,000$
67 Rigidized Metals expansion; 658 Ohio St.; 20,000 sf addition, manufacturing. AP 1,500,000$
68 WNY Medical Arts Bldg. Phase II; new construction, Medical Office, 700 Michigan Ave. UC 3,500,000$
69 Elmwood Village Charter School, 124 Elmwood Ave.; rehab-school C 2,300,000$
70 112 Genesee Street; conversion/renovation: residential; cost TBD PR -$
71 BSC Tower; S. Elmwood Ave.; new construction; Mixed-use: Office, hotel and residential PR 361,000,000$
72 Tacoma Lofts, 618 Tacoma Ave.; conversion/renovation; 13 apartments C 1,175,000$
73 The Apartments at 1040 Delaware Avenue; conversion/renovation to 45 apartments UC 1,200,000$
74 North Street Y Senior Apartments, 245 North St.; conversion/renovation; 63 senior apartments UC 3,500,000$
75 Genesee Village, 99-107 Genesee; renovation, mixed-use; costs TBD PR -$
76 Colvin Housing Project; former Railroad ROW; 132 building lots; Total cost TBD PL -$
77 567 Exchange St., renovation/conversion-artists studios; cost TBD UC -$
Subtotal 1,138,896,310$


PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS AND NON-TAXABLE
78 Federal Courthouse PL 120,000,000$
79 Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino and parking- est. PL 125,000,000$
80 Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino Hotel- est. PR -$
81 Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino Office Tower-est... PR -$
82 UB Center of Excellence C 61,000,000$
83 Roswell Park Research Facility C 61,000,000$
84 BNMC-Medical Campus Infrastructure improvements & Allen Street extension PL 11,400,000$
85 Erie Canal Harbor Project and new Naval Museum UC 50,000,000$
86 Erie Community College-Downtown PR 90,000,000$
87 Darwin Martin House and associated projects; renovation and new construction UC 35,000,000$
88 Frank Lloyd Wright Boat House UC 5,400,000$
89 Frank Lloyd Wright Gas Station & Pierce-Arrow Transportation Museum PR 10,000,000$
90 Michigan St Church/Nash H/ Colored Musicians total PR 1,000,000$
91 UB Education Opportunity Center (EOC) PL 25,000,000$
92 Cornerstone Manor (150 E. North at Michigan, 122 units, new construction) C 10,688,133$
93 St. John Baptist Hospice House PL 2,600,000$
94 Joint Schools Construction, Phase I (9 schools) UC 173,500,000$
95 Joint Schools Construction, Phase II (13 schools) PL 327,000,000$
96 Joint Schools Construction, Phase III (9 schools) PR 375,000,000$
97 Living Opportunities of DePaul (Group Home, 75 units; new construction; Seneca & Elk) PL 805,014$
98 BMHA Lakeview 3A2; 6 housing units for rent; new construction UC 1,159,304$
99 AD Price, rehab 170 existing units; new construction of 48 rental housing units (Jefferson near William) PL 40,000,000$
100 H.H. Richardson Complex PR 54,000,000$
101 Richardson Architecture Museum PR 24,000,000$
102 Burchfield Penny Art Museum PL 22,000,000$
103 Shea's Theater Renovations PL 700,000$
104 Cars Sharing Main Street, Federal & State PL 14,000,000$
105 Southtown Connector-Fuhrmann Blvd. reconstruction AP 32,000,000$
106 Buffalo State College Technology Center PL 40,000,000$
107 Canisius College Interdisciplinary Science Center PL 45,000,000$
108 Mount Mercy Academy Renovations UC 400,000$
109 Sisters' Hospital, 2157 Main Street, renovations UC 2,138,000$
110 Dick Smith Teaching Pavilion at Great Lakes Center (Cotter Point) C 240,000$
111 Union Ship Canal Park at Buffalo Lakeside Commerce Park AP 8,000,000$
112 Tow Path Park (Hertel Avenue) PL 826,000$
113 Scajaquada Pathway, Phase I - bicycle and pedestrian trail SC 1,700,000$
114 Inner Harbor Parking Facility PL 16,300,000$
115 Erie Canal & Great Lakes Museum at the Inner Harbor PR 15,000,000$
116 Outer Harbor Greenbelt - shoreline improvement and linear park UC 14,000,000$
117 Buffalo Lakeside Commerce Park Phase II (north of canal) roads, infrastructure PR 9,000,000$
118 Buffalo Zoo Rainforest Exhibit AP 15,000,000$
119 Ira G. Ross Eye Institute, 1176 Main Street; new construction UC 4,000,000$
120 Niagara Lutheran Retirement Community; E. Delavan & Pleasant Place PR -$
121 Connecticut Street Armory; 184 Connecticut St.; restoration, window replacement C 2,000,000$
Subtotal 1,845,856,451$
LONG-TERM
122Buffalo Lakefront Development (Outer Harbor) PR $700,000,000
Grand total $3,684,752,761
* Status Column Keys:
C: Completed
SC: Substantially Completed
UC: Applied for Building permits/ under construction or will start soon
AP: Approved, funded and in final design and engineering
PL: Planned; project announced and likely to move forward
PR: Proposed; project announced but contingent on external factors

Very impressive list, good to see more signs of Buffalo development activity. But seeing Bass Pro listed at number 8, wonder how much of this is still a wish list?

This list must be where Mayor Brown got his $3.6 billion number from during the Lou Dobbs show.

I don't see those other Rocco Lofts on there, am i blind?

westcoast, familiar with this one? Is it right accross from the police station?
30 Loft Conversion, 686 Main Street (Birzon Building); renovation, mixed-use PL 1,500,000$

Very impressive list, good to see more signs of Buffalo development activity. But seeing Bass Pro listed at number 8, wonder how much of this is still a wish list?


I think we will find out real soon

a very nice list yes, I wonder when the next addition will be here?

These conversions are adding up, I like seeing the existing older structures being run thru rehab...while we might do 4 billion in actual investment and never see a bunch of new towers, it should not matter. Street level is where Buffalo thrives and this investment is showing it.

density before height.

Lets hope that Governor Spitzer will change NY and will really take some burdens from the tax payers.

anyone else know he is JEWISH? yea, I was very suprised. I think its good. :)

Lets hope that Governor Spitzer will change NY and will really take some burdens from the tax payers.

anyone else know he is JEWISH? yea, I was very suprised. I think its good. :)

Yeah I knew, he also has three daughters that will be hot when they get older :) .

There is this extremely conservative guy i used to work with that said he disliked Spitzer cuz he was Jewish, and used to rip me at work cuz Spitzer's my hero. He also hated taxes and people on the public payroll but ironically he left my company to go get a $70k/year door knob turning job at the NYSDOT and now Spitzer is basically his employer.

I don't see those other Rocco Lofts on there, am i blind?

westcoast, familiar with this one? Is it right accross from the police station?
30 Loft Conversion, 686 Main Street (Birzon Building); renovation, mixed-use PL 1,500,000$

Rocco's Projects: #10, #27, #58, #60

Birzon is between Tent City and Studio Arena. They started work without permits and got shut down- and nothing has happened. Not sure what's going on. Birzon:

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8126/birzoned5.jpg

Is that list based on priority, or projects that are currently being worked on? Or was it just a made-up list in no particular order. Just a curiosity question. I'd like to tally up how much in all these projects are all worth.

The tally is at the very bottom of the list

fact is, anyone who says Buffalo is dead is shooting themselves in the foot.

with 3 billion in projects and basically over a billion in private sector investment, Buffalo is doing well...even at the national level, not to mention our regional neighbors (Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Rochester)

CURRENT CITY DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS
2006
MAYOR BYRON W. BROWN
Project Status * Cost
1 Cobblestone Lofts Office: 26 Mississippi Street-Mixed-Use: renovation - office C 3,500,000$
2 Lofts at Cobblestone: 30-50 Mississippi: renovation, mixed-use retail & residential; 36 units UC 12,500,000$
3 New Era Headquarters, 160 Delaware Ave. C 10,000,000$
4 285 Delaware Avenue, Uniland Development-New Office building UC 12,000,000$
5 50 Court Street , new office building PL 40,000,000$
6 Cobey Inc., new manufacturing facility; Buffalo Lakeside Commerce Park; 1 Ship Canal Pkwy. SC 10,000,000$
7 HealthNow Headquarters, 457 W. Genesee St.; new construction, office UC 110,000,000$
8 Bass Pro Outdoor World Store PL 60,000,000$
9 Elmwood Avenue Hotel PR -$
10 IS Lofts Downtown Housing, 362 Oak Street, 24 units, reconstruction) C 5,000,000$
11 Artspace, 1219 Main Street, reconstruction, 60 apts. UC 17,500,000$
12 Granite Works; 844-864 Main Street, mixed-use project, reconstruction C 8,000,000$
13 Waterfront Village Housing Project; new construction AP 12,500,000$
14 Lenox Hotel Renovation; reconstruction PL 5,000,000$
15 Pierce Building, 653 Main Street; reconstruction UC 500,000$
16 Sodexho Laundry, 60 Grider Street (Curtiss Wright) UC 2,700,000$
17 Glenny Drive/Kensington Heights Retirement Community PR 80,000,000$
18 AIDS Community Services, Elmwood Avenue project PR 7,000,000$
19 Hydro-Air Company, 100 Abby St., new manufacturing facility UC 7,500,000$
20 Delaware & Linden Retail Plaza (Tim Horton's, IHOP, Credit Union; 2240-2300 Delaware) UC 5,500,000$
21 504 Elmwood Avenue in-fill mixed-use project C 3,000,000$
22 504 Washington Street PR 1,000,000$
23 Guaranty Bldg, 30 Church Street; renovations UC 12,000,000$
24 Desiderios Food Warehouse, 530 Bailey Ave., new construction-warehouse & office expansion UC 2,100,000$
25 New Office Building, 227 Niagara Street PL 550,000$
26 Senior Apt with parking, 257 Virginia Street PL 2,000,000$
27 Apt Bldg conversion with Day Care, 92 Pearl Street PL 9,200,000$
28 Human Service Facility, 1924 Bailey Ave PL 1,500,000$
29 Paper Recycling Bldg, 12 Metcalf PL 570,000$
30 Loft Conversion, 686 Main Street (Birzon Building); renovation, mixed-use PL 1,500,000$
31 Plaza Expansion, 2635 Delaware Ave (Plaza Group) UC 750,000$
32 First Niagara Bank buildout, 726 Exchange C 578,430$
33 Tops renovation, 2101 Elmwood Ave. UC 650,000$
34 Medical Bldg, Building C, 100 High Street UC 980,000$
35 Union Hall, CWA Local 1133, 821 Elk Street AP 700,000$
36 WNY Medical Arts Bldg. Phase I; new construction, Medical Office, 700 Michigan Ave. C 2,000,000$
37 Tenant Build Out, 20 East Huron Street UC 800,000$
38 Masonry Addition, 1 Bud Mil PL 750,000$
39 499 Washington, Reconstruction, 82 units UC 2,500,000$
40 937 Broadway, Reconstruction, 43 units UC 2,250,000$
41 100 Seneca Street, renovation for NYSDOT UC 2,489,000$
42 St. John Phase I (Fruitbelt), 10 units new housing construction UC 1,506,880$
43 St. John Phase II (Fruitbelt), 10 new housing construction PL 2,200,000$
44 St. John Townhomes, 28 units, new construction PR 6,000,000$
45 Bethel Phases I-II; 18 new housing construction (Ada & Elsie Streets) UC 2,525,000$
46 HoZo-New Opportunities; 19 new housing construction (Kane, Camp & Davis Streets) UC 3,050,000$
47 East Side Opportunities; 30 units new housing construction (Dodge Street) UC 6,000,000$
48 Sycamore Village; 48 units, new housing construction (Kang, Kemp & Davis Streets) PL 7,200,000$
49 The Packard Building, Main & Riley UC 8,932,000$
50 Shoreline Apartments, housing renovation PL 10,700,000$
51 Statler Building Renovation, 107 Delaware Ave.; mixed-use: hotel, office, housing PR 80,000,000$
52 Electric Tower, 535 Washington Street, office; renovation UC 11,300,000$
53 Old Metroplex Renovation, 723 Main Street SC 1,500,000$
54 Seneca Paper, 210 Ellicott Street, renovation/conversion, housing UC 6,800,000$
55 Phoenix House-564 Delaware Avenue (Moscati), renovation UC 1,040,000$
56 599 Delaware Avenue (FDA Building), renovation, R&D Facility C 2,500,000$
57 RiverWright Ethanol Plant PR 80,000,000$
58 Greystone Apartments, 24 Johnson Park; conversion, residential; 33 units UC 7,000,000$
59 AM&A's Redevelopment, renovation, mixed-use PR -$
60 Ellicott Commons, 465 Ellicott; residential; new construction; 30 units UC 4,300,000$
61 Dulski Office Building; Mixed-use office and residential; cost TBD PR 6,100,000$
62 33 Gates Circle Condominiums PR 40,000,000$
63 Courtyard Mall, 450-460 Main St.; renovation/conversion; mixed-use ofc. & res. UC 5,500,000$
64 878 Main Street, Zeptometrix; renovation; corporate offices PR 500,000$
65 Center for Transportation Excellence; 401 E. Amherst Street PL 3,000,000$
66 Webb Building; Pearl St.; renovation/conversion; mixed-use; 32 units PR 10,000,000$
67 Rigidized Metals expansion; 658 Ohio St.; 20,000 sf addition, manufacturing. AP 1,500,000$
68 WNY Medical Arts Bldg. Phase II; new construction, Medical Office, 700 Michigan Ave. UC 3,500,000$
69 Elmwood Village Charter School, 124 Elmwood Ave.; rehab-school C 2,300,000$
70 112 Genesee Street; conversion/renovation: residential; cost TBD PR -$
71 BSC Tower; S. Elmwood Ave.; new construction; Mixed-use: Office, hotel and residential PR 361,000,000$
72 Tacoma Lofts, 618 Tacoma Ave.; conversion/renovation; 13 apartments C 1,175,000$
73 The Apartments at 1040 Delaware Avenue; conversion/renovation to 45 apartments UC 1,200,000$
74 North Street Y Senior Apartments, 245 North St.; conversion/renovation; 63 senior apartments UC 3,500,000$
75 Genesee Village, 99-107 Genesee; renovation, mixed-use; costs TBD PR -$
76 Colvin Housing Project; former Railroad ROW; 132 building lots; Total cost TBD PL -$
77 567 Exchange St., renovation/conversion-artists studios; cost TBD UC -$
Subtotal 1,138,896,310$


PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS AND NON-TAXABLE
78 Federal Courthouse PL 120,000,000$
79 Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino and parking- est. PL 125,000,000$
80 Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino Hotel- est. PR -$
81 Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino Office Tower-est... PR -$
82 UB Center of Excellence C 61,000,000$
83 Roswell Park Research Facility C 61,000,000$
84 BNMC-Medical Campus Infrastructure improvements & Allen Street extension PL 11,400,000$
85 Erie Canal Harbor Project and new Naval Museum UC 50,000,000$
86 Erie Community College-Downtown PR 90,000,000$
87 Darwin Martin House and associated projects; renovation and new construction UC 35,000,000$
88 Frank Lloyd Wright Boat House UC 5,400,000$
89 Frank Lloyd Wright Gas Station & Pierce-Arrow Transportation Museum PR 10,000,000$
90 Michigan St Church/Nash H/ Colored Musicians total PR 1,000,000$
91 UB Education Opportunity Center (EOC) PL 25,000,000$
92 Cornerstone Manor (150 E. North at Michigan, 122 units, new construction) C 10,688,133$
93 St. John Baptist Hospice House PL 2,600,000$
94 Joint Schools Construction, Phase I (9 schools) UC 173,500,000$
95 Joint Schools Construction, Phase II (13 schools) PL 327,000,000$
96 Joint Schools Construction, Phase III (9 schools) PR 375,000,000$
97 Living Opportunities of DePaul (Group Home, 75 units; new construction; Seneca & Elk) PL 805,014$
98 BMHA Lakeview 3A2; 6 housing units for rent; new construction UC 1,159,304$
99 AD Price, rehab 170 existing units; new construction of 48 rental housing units (Jefferson near William) PL 40,000,000$
100 H.H. Richardson Complex PR 54,000,000$
101 Richardson Architecture Museum PR 24,000,000$
102 Burchfield Penny Art Museum PL 22,000,000$
103 Shea's Theater Renovations PL 700,000$
104 Cars Sharing Main Street, Federal & State PL 14,000,000$
105 Southtown Connector-Fuhrmann Blvd. reconstruction AP 32,000,000$
106 Buffalo State College Technology Center PL 40,000,000$
107 Canisius College Interdisciplinary Science Center PL 45,000,000$
108 Mount Mercy Academy Renovations UC 400,000$
109 Sisters' Hospital, 2157 Main Street, renovations UC 2,138,000$
110 Dick Smith Teaching Pavilion at Great Lakes Center (Cotter Point) C 240,000$
111 Union Ship Canal Park at Buffalo Lakeside Commerce Park AP 8,000,000$
112 Tow Path Park (Hertel Avenue) PL 826,000$
113 Scajaquada Pathway, Phase I - bicycle and pedestrian trail SC 1,700,000$
114 Inner Harbor Parking Facility PL 16,300,000$
115 Erie Canal & Great Lakes Museum at the Inner Harbor PR 15,000,000$
116 Outer Harbor Greenbelt - shoreline improvement and linear park UC 14,000,000$
117 Buffalo Lakeside Commerce Park Phase II (north of canal) roads, infrastructure PR 9,000,000$
118 Buffalo Zoo Rainforest Exhibit AP 15,000,000$
119 Ira G. Ross Eye Institute, 1176 Main Street; new construction UC 4,000,000$
120 Niagara Lutheran Retirement Community; E. Delavan & Pleasant Place PR -$
121 Connecticut Street Armory; 184 Connecticut St.; restoration, window replacement C 2,000,000$
Subtotal 1,845,856,451$
LONG-TERM
122Buffalo Lakefront Development (Outer Harbor) PR $700,000,000
Grand total $3,684,752,761
* Status Column Keys:
C: Completed
SC: Substantially Completed
UC: Applied for Building permits/ under construction or will start soon
AP: Approved, funded and in final design and engineering
PL: Planned; project announced and likely to move forward
PR: Proposed; project announced but contingent on external factors

Once you take out the dead $700 million project out of the total you can see that fully 62% of what remains are non-taxable/governmentally funded projects. The 62/38 ratio of public to private dollars would be unheard of elsewhere. It is not prosperity and it does not represent real growth. You cannot tax yourself to prosperity and when well under a third of your construction activity is privately funded you are a community in distress. And that's not even counting the public dollars going into the so called private projects such as Bass Pro. Then add in the fact that fully 40% of the private dollars are from one person a 20 something developer that has never completed one project in North America and who's abilities have been severely questioned by those that are aware of him on the Manchester page of these forums and you are not left with much to "talk proud" about. Sad indeed.

Jerome seems to be off his anti-depressants again. :ohno:

Jerome seems to be off his anti-depressants again. :ohno:

I love Buffalo as much as anyone but you have got to be real. No one really thinks Issa is going to lease a 40 story tower when Palidino has been trying to get an 11 story box off the ground for the last five years? I hope he does but to include it as a real project is as much of a pipe dream as including the E-zone.

Do you really think it's good that out of the 3.6 billion dollars less than 19% is non Issa private monies? 24% if you remove the dead waterfront project.

That is a horrible percentage and does not represent a healthy development environment by any stretch of the imagination

Jerome,

So we should tie the success potential of the Issa projects to Paladino?

Also, I think there is something to be said about the total number of projects.

I love Buffalo as much as anyone but you have got to be real. No one really thinks Issa is going to lease a 40 story tower when Palidino has been trying to get an 11 story box off the ground for the last five years? I hope he does but to include it as a real project is as much of a pipe dream as including the E-zone.

Do you really think it's good that out of the 3.6 billion dollars less than 19% is non Issa private monies? 24% if you remove the dead waterfront project.

That is a horrible percentage and does not represent a healthy development environment by any stretch of the imagination

How do you figure the waterfront project is dead? The inner waterfront is coming along fast, when was the last time you were actually in the city Jerome?

I'd reason that Issa might do a betetr job at agressively marketing his tower. I think he already has a realty team working on it. Then again, I know nothing of Paladino's efforst with marketing, so I might be wrong.

How do you figure the waterfront project is dead? The inner waterfront is coming along fast,

The $700 million referred to the NFTA/Opus project. That project is dead by virtue of the fact that the NFTA is turning over the land to the inner harbor group. That group has publicly stated that the outer harbor will be on the slow track until they can get something going on the inner harbor. i,e, Bass Pro.


when was the last time you were actually in the city Jerome?
I am in downtown right now. As I type this I can see out over Main Street. I see a street almost totally devoid of human activity.

Do you really think it's good that out of the 3.6 billion dollars less than 19% is non Issa private monies? 24% if you remove the dead waterfront project.

That is a horrible percentage and does not represent a healthy development environment by any stretch of the imagination
Even IF your complaint is well founded (which I don't agree it is) and even IF your numbers are correct (which I haven't checked), 19% of 3.6 billion is still almost $700 million in purely private realistic development which is TWICE as much as a normal year in buffalo.

And yet you say "That is a horrible percentage and does not represent a healthy development environment by any stretch of the imagination"

I think you need to work on your imagination.

Also, I think there is something to be said about the total number of projects.
The total number of PRIVATE projects is not that impressive when you consider that they are spread over 6 years. For a city of Buffalo's size that should be the list for one year not six. Especially when you consider that half of the dollar value of the ones listed are longshots at best of ever seeing a shovel in the ground.

I've seen lists like this for 20 years now and less than a third of the announced projects ever get built. Remember the 60 story condo planned for the Erie Basin Marina? How about the second restaurant next to Shanghei Red's? How about the original plan for a 45 gate BNIA? It came in at 15 when it first opened and still has only 24 - with 6 empty. And the list goes on much longer than the list of proposed projects posted above.

There were many naysayers expressing the same negativity about the public investment in Providence, RI in the mid 90's.

19% of 3.6 billion is still almost $700 million in purely private realistic development which is TWICE as much as a normal year in buffalo.

1) the $700 million you cite is over many years not just one.

2) even the $700 million includes a lot of governmental monies, I see Bass Pro which is almost entirely government funded on the private money list. It should really be listed with the public works projects.

The inner waterfront is coming along fast, And it will be a great place to go in the summertime. It will be gorgeous. IT is also 100% tax money paid for. It also is not development. It is a governmental project, a park. Nice but that's all.

my only real critique of the list has to do with the number of housing units coming online...all the housing units are scattered over a couple mile radius and most of the renovations have a very small amount of units (i.e. 2-20 units) rather than developments of hundreds of units (i.e. possibly AM&As & Statler).

50 Court Street- 40 percent pre-leased.

Bass Pro- Stay tuned.

I'm too lazy to count them up- what are the numbers for proposed/UC/completed (dollars and # of projects).

Some cities Buffalo's size have 1 billion+ dollars in development in their downtowns alone.

With the state of the area, we should be happy for what we're getting though.

With the state of the area, we should be happy for what we're getting though.
That has been the main point all along. And hopefully it is a clear sign that the "state of the area" is turning a corner somewhat.

The current list of projects is a huge improvements over recent years... going back I don't know how far, or whether we separate out public project or not.

To try and put it in a bad light is ridiculous, I think.

Some cities Buffalo's size have 1 billion+ dollars in development in their downtowns alone.

With the state of the area, we should be happy for what we're getting though.

yes they do, but some are FAR BEHIND Buffalo...so what is your point?

Be happy you (near) a city that is on the rebound...stick around and you might see all those Hotels and restaurants you wanted. :)

No, I think we're pretty much dead last for cities our size.

At least we don't have negative construction activity :lol:

No, I think we're pretty much dead last for cities our size.

At least we don't have negative construction activity :lol:

ok DT you got your token Buff bashing in for the day...give it a rest for a while.

Certainly not bashing at all!

I'm just saying that in metro areas of 1 to 1.5 million people, we're probably last in construction activity, refuting BuffCity's claim.

I'm just saying that in metro areas of 1 to 1.5 million people, we're probably last in construction activity, refuting BuffCity's claim.
Probably? You don't even know, but you make a scathing statement like that?

You have to say 'probably' because you know it's not really true.

Okay, I say it without a doubt then. There. Find me a metro that has less construction than Buffalo in the 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 category and you'll have proven me wrong.

Really, do you believe what you're saying? Really? Who could have less construction than we do (save for ROC, heh.)?

isnt Issa in the begining of a 3 billion dollar investment in Buffalo?

I remeber in the news they said something about him, 3 billion dollars, and Buffalo in the same sentence.

Okay, I say it without a doubt then. There. Find me a metro that has less construction than Buffalo in the 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 category and you'll have proven me wrong.

Really, do you believe what you're saying? Really? Who could have less construction than we do (save for ROC, heh.)?
You can prove it, and back up your own statements. I'm not the one making the claims. You are.

I'm sure you can find some article in Tennessee Motel Weekly that will fit your claim.

Certainly not bashing at all!

I'm just saying that in metro areas of 1 to 1.5 million people, we're probably last in construction activity, refuting BuffCity's claim.

The construction listed is only within the city boarders.

steel beat me to the punch!

Metro, city - I'll say both then... and I'll even up the ante - lowest amount of construction in the entire 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 bracket.

Remember, I'm not bashing. 1,000,000 in activity for the city limits of Buffalo is excellent compared to past years. Again, I was just refuting BuffCity's claim.

Metro, city - I'll say both then... and I'll even up the ante - lowest amount of construction in the entire 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 bracket.



Rochester - it is about $200 million behind Buffalo through the end of October. By comparison the total for the also economically depressed Pittsburgh Metro through the end of October was $2.2 billion which was up $300 million over the prior year's first ten months.



Here are the figures through the end of September

Data released by the FW Dodge division of McGraw Hill.

2 County Buffalo area – September 2006 total new contracts $143.1 million up from $81 million in 2005. YTD total new contract $1.04 BILLION up from $718 million in 2005. For the month Commercial activity was up 64% and Residential activity was UP 64%. YTD total activity is up 45%.

5 County Rochester area – September 2006 total new contracts $139.2 million up from $89.4 million in 2005. YTD total new contract $894 million up from $712.4 million in 2005. For the month Commercial activity was UP 200% and Residential activity was DOWN 28%. YTD total activity is up 25%

ha, well I called it a few posts above, at least.

don, can you do cities like Nashville, Charlotte, and other fast growing cities in the same population bracket so we can compare? Thanks.

don, can you do cities like Nashville, Charlotte, and other fast growing cities in the same population bracket so we can compare? Thanks.
Um, No... Compare ALL cities in the same population bracket.
That is what you claimed: that buffalo is dead last among all cities.

Comparing buffalo only to specific cities is how you skew results and make buffalo look worse than it is.

Um, I was just asking for the numbers for Nashville and Charlotte out of curiosity.

Don already compared the numbers for all the cities in the same population bracket and posted his results. Buffalo is the second lowest -- Rochester wins (or would that be loses?).

Don already compared the numbers for all the cities in the same population bracket and posted his results. Buffalo is the second lowest -- Rochester wins (or would that be loses?).
I don't see where that is posted. He posted dollar figures... I don't see rank mentioned.

He would have pointed it out if there were any other cities that were lower (as in the case of ROC).

Perhaps he could post the numbers for every city so we can see just how our peers are doing?

He would have pointed it out if there were any other cities that were lower (as in the case of ROC).

Perhaps he could post the numbers for every city so we can see just how our peers are doing?


He only pointed out Roc because it is right next door. His Pit comaprison shows it being absolutely comparable to Buffalo if you equalize for population. I would like to see some high growth numbers though (adjusted for population size would be even better)

don, can you do cities like Nashville, Charlotte, and other fast growing cities in the same population bracket so we can compare? Thanks.

I only posted PGH and ROC because they are part of my territory and I have the data on my desk at work. To look up the others is more work than it is worth for me.

I'll give you a dollar if you do though!

Well, I apologize for thinking you looked up everything. But in all honesty, here's every 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 metro in the country. With the exception of 'ol Roc, wouldn't you say we are indeed the last?

27 Kansas City MO–KS 1,947,694
28 Orlando-Kissimmee FL 1,933,255
29 San Antonio TX 1,889,797
30 San Jose–Sunnyvale–Santa Clara CA 1,754,988
31 Las Vegas–Paradise NV 1,710,551
32 Columbus OH 1,708,625
33 Virginia Beach–Norfolk–Newport News VA–NC 1,647,346
34 Indianapolis–Carmel IN 1,640,591
35 Providence–New Bedford–Fall River RI–MA 1,622,520
36 Charlotte–Gastonia–Concord NC–SC 1,521,278
37 Milwaukee–Waukesha–West Allis WI 1,512,855
38 Austin–Round Rock TX 1,452,529
39 Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro TN 1,422,544
40 New Orleans–Metairie–Kenner LA 1,319,367
41 Memphis TN–MS–AR 1,260,950
42 Jacksonville FL 1,248,371
43 Louisville–Jefferson County KY–IN 1,208,452
44 Hartford–West Hartford–East Hartford CT 1,188,241
45 Richmond VA 1,175,654
46 Oklahoma City OK 1,156,812
47 Buffalo–Niagara Falls NY 1,147,711
48 Birmingham–Hoover AL 1,090,126
49 Rochester NY 1,039,028
50 Salt Lake City UT 1,034,484

All of the above with the exception of Buffalo, are growing. Some even exploding.

The only ones I think we may be close to would be Hartford, Richmond and Providence.

Perhaps... I know Hartford and Providence both have huge projects going on in their respective downtowns/city limits though. They're both getting several large skyscrapers, hotels, and Providence is building a new convention center if I remember correctly.

Richmond isn't doing too poorly either. Some new condo highrises and whatnot.

no matter WHAT is said about Buffalo it will simply not be good enough.

but did anyone really expect anything different? :)

I'll give you a dollar if you do though!

Well, I apologize for thinking you looked up everything. But in all honesty, here's every 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 metro in the country. With the exception of 'ol Roc, wouldn't you say we are indeed the last?



Now this post is very sweet. DT actually used the word 'we' when speaking of Buffalo. That is a very important first step DT.

TYPO!

DT, dare i say you seem to have caught a bit of susieitus? you must try harder to say something positive about buffalo.

Canada's right across the water :D

In the absence of any posted data here on overall data on construction, here’s the residential construction permits data, pretty significant part of overall construction, for older Northeastern and Midwestern metros in 2004. While the volumes flucuate, these do rankings tend to be pretty consistent year to year. As would be expected for a declining area, Buffalo Niagara ranks very low.

VALUE OF RESIDENTIAL CONSTRUCTION
2004 Building Permits, thousands of dollars

1. New York City 6,808,678
2. Minneapolis-St. Paul 4,679,877
3. Detroit 3,275,985
4. Boston 2,511,758
5. Philadelphia 2,491,723
6. St. Louis 2,344,817
7. Indianapolis 2,322,237
8. Kansa City 2,221,191
9. Columbus 2,196,073
10. Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN 1,834,145
11. Cleveland OH 1,388,946
12. Omaha NE 1,151,196
13. Milwaukee WI 1,088,818
14. Madison, WI 841,515
15. Des Moines, IO 834,534
16. Bridgeport-Stamford CT 739,119
17. Allentown-Bethlehem PA $697,014
18. Providence RI 661,624
19. Grand Rapids MI 611,827
20. Worcester MA 600,398
21. Portland ME 586,540
22. Hartford CT 555,775
23. Albany NY 552,617
24. Dayton OH 535,861
25. Poughkeepsie-Newburgh NY 504,936
26. Akron OH 476,992
27. Rochester NY 454,622
28. Toledo, OH 445,614
29. Fort Wayne, IN 406,263
30. Buffalo-Niagara Falls NY 385,846
31. Harrisburg PA 364,206
32. Flint MI 348,180
33. Lansing MI 326,113
34. New Haven, CT 317,529
35. Scranton-Wilkes Barre PA 232,955
36. Syracuse, NY 218,166

(Source: US Department of Commerce)

As would be expected for a declining area, Buffalo Niagara ranks very low.
Any abbreviated list like that showing construction or population that includes both NYC and Buffalo will obviously put Buffalo low on the list.

DT still can't back up his statements (or admit he lied it to recant it): A full list of comparably populated cities showing Buffalo dead last in new construction.

Why? Because it isn't true. But instead of just admitting it, you throw out unrelated data like population rankings.

I still stand by my statement (with the exception of Rochester). All it takes is common sense.

I still stand by my statement (with the exception of Rochester). All it takes is common sense.
No DT. All it takes is the data to prove it. Which you can't seem to provide.

I still stand by my statement (with the exception of Rochester). All it takes is common sense.

Its not common sense, ur only saying it because you hate Buffalo and troll around these boards ruining every thread for the last year pounding home the point that you hate Buffalo.

I don't understand you guys.

All of the other metro areas from 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 are growing.

Therefore, they would have more construction than Buffalo.

How is that faulty logic?!

Arhgg.ghfkkkkkkkkkk

How is that faulty logic?!
I don't trust Troll logic unless you can back it up with real data.

Which you can't seem to do.

And you just keep trying to evade the point that you're just plain wrong.

Buffalo is the FASTEST GROWING CITY IN THE UNITED STATES!

Any abbreviated list like that showing construction or population that includes both NYC and Buffalo will obviously put Buffalo low on the list.

Even if the biggest metros are not included, Buffalo ranks very low, above Flint, but below Fort Wayne & Toledo, etc. Not surprising given the area's steady population decline.

I dunno, even sense 2004 we have seen HUGE gains by Buffalo standards in the work being done.

The only way to see how we are doing is to compare to places like Rochester, Erie, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Syracuse, Cinci and Toledo.

We share history, demographics and similar paths to a better day with these places...give some dollar amounts on these and we'll see how we are doing.

someone please.

Buffalo is not the smallest listed and is not the largest...but we are not at the bottom of the list I assure you that.

Even if the biggest metros are not included, Buffalo ranks very low, above Flint, but below Fort Wayne & Toledo, etc. Not surprising given the area's steady population decline.

are you saying that Toledo has more than 3 billion in projects on the burner or in the works?

I dunno about that.

also, these numbers are showing building permits, not dollars invested, while the dollars invested are not yielding private home or small business numbers...not even all the projects are listed. This is getting away from us now...like I said, someone has to find the numbers and post that.

I dunno, even sense 2004 we have seen HUGE gains by Buffalo standards in the work being done.

The only way to see how we are doing is to compare to places like Rochester, Erie, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Syracuse, Cinci and Toledo.

We share history, demographics and similar paths to a better day with these places...give some dollar amounts on these and we'll see how we are doing.

someone please.

Buffalo is not the smallest listed and is not the largest...but we are not at the bottom of the list I assure you that.

I'd love to see Buffalo rank higher, & hope more development happens, but as you see its got a long climb up.

are you saying that Toledo has more than 3 billion in projects on the burner or in the works?

I dunno about that.

also, these numbers are showing building permits, not dollars invested, while the dollars invested are not yielding private home or small business numbers...not even all the projects are listed. This is getting away from us now...like I said, someone has to find the numbers and post that.

Problem with lists of "planned development" is that there's no way to tell what's going to happen until until it happens. There's no consistent basis for comparison until after the fact.

Problem with lists of "planned development" is that there's no way to tell what's going to happen until until it happens. There's no consistent basis for comparison until after the fact.

I think we know that, and even if a city has a dollar amount higher...it may not actually see that development, a city with a lower amount might have more things come to the table after the fact and in the long run have more dollar amounts invested...so yes there is no way to tell.

but we are all up in arms now, so we might as well keep the water boiling until I post a new photo thread or someting. :)

Buffalo is the FASTEST GROWING CITY IN THE UNITED STATES!

No Birmingham is. Birmingham is the biggest too.

Not compared to BUFFALO! It's like Xanadu. but better. and with free cheese.


Birmingham's just your average mid-sized city.

^ Average mid-sized city that will never see a Major League sports team.

^ Average mid-sized city that will never see a Major League sports team.

That is true but Birmingham's minor league teams are better than the majors anyway

PoliticsNY.Net: "Rumor" is the AM&A's (downtown) project has fallen thru the cracks & the new owner is shopping around for a new buyer. ###

That has been the main point all along. And hopefully it is a clear sign that the "state of the area" is turning a corner somewhat.

Since my childhood in the 1970s, though, there was always a turnaround or "renaissance" just around the corner in Buffalo. Through the "renaissances" of the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, I watched my neighborhood turn from diverse, desirable and somewhat funky working-to-middle-class community to a ghetto.

I'm just jaded. When is Buffalo actually going to experience a sustained upswing? Those drinking the loganberry-flavored Booster Kool-Aid always promise "next year".

no shit...well, lets see if someone can give us some more details.

thanks for the tip.

No DT. All it takes is the data to prove it. Which you can't seem to provide.

I know Buffalo would be low on the list, but until you provide data to prove your point you can't just simply state: "it's common sense"
sorry DT.

Cyb,

There are many good things happening today that are quite different from the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

You know I am stating the obvious when I say that many believe the turnaround cannot happen until our local ecomony is not so heavy on dying manufacturing. I bet almost everyone in your neighborhood worked in manufacturing or blue collar industry of some kind.

From what I hear, there should be a major announcement regarding the newly fleshed out and enlarged Bass Pro project by the end of the year, perhaps the Friday before Christmas.

Enlarged?

Maybe we've decided to forgo the "silver" bullet for a "golden" or "platinum" one instead?

From what I hear, there should be a major announcement regarding the newly fleshed out and enlarged Bass Pro project by the end of the year, perhaps the Friday before Christmas.

So this friday?

You know I am stating the obvious when I say that many believe the turnaround cannot happen until our local ecomony is not so heavy on dying manufacturing. I bet almost everyone in your neighborhood worked in manufacturing or blue collar industry of some kind.

It was Kensington, which was more white-collar and less ethnic than neighborhoods like South Buffalo, Riverside, Lovejoy, and Kaisertown. Teachers, clerks, salespeople, secretaries, cops, low-level city and county workers, retirees, and so on. Some factory workers, but not many. Pre-ghetto Kensington was a great city neighborhood; nothing fancy, not an example of fine urban planning or a place with great architecture, but very dense, walkable and liveable.

It was Kensington, which was more white-collar and less ethnic than neighborhoods like South Buffalo, Riverside, Lovejoy, and Kaisertown. Teachers, clerks, salespeople, secretaries, cops, low-level city and county workers, retirees, and so on. Some factory workers, but not many. Pre-ghetto Kensington was a great city neighborhood; nothing fancy, not an example of fine urban planning or a place with great architecture, but very dense, walkable and liveable.

I grew up close to that area. I'm in my mid-30s and I can remember it being fairly nice. Decent shopping. I will add that Harrison Radiator (and the University) employed many from the neighborhood.

So this friday?

I am hearing 21-22 or else not until after New Years Day.

I was just out for a few hours today putting out those stupid road tubes to measure the speeds & volumes along Maple Road right in front of the proposed lifestyle center. Looks like that project is moving along...I'm not sure, but it seemed as tho the Buffalo Shooting Club was vacant, all the trees were gone and the property was marked off with neon orange flags.

I was just out for a few hours today putting out those stupid road tubes to measure the speeds & volumes along Maple Road right in front of the proposed lifestyle center. Looks like that project is moving along...I'm not sure, but it seemed as tho the Buffalo Shooting Club was vacant, all the trees were gone and the property was marked off with neon orange flags.


It is always good to get rid of all the trees before you build anything.

Cyb,

There are many good things happening today that are quite different from the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

You know I am stating the obvious when I say that many believe the turnaround cannot happen until our local ecomony is not so heavy on dying manufacturing. I bet almost everyone in your neighborhood worked in manufacturing or blue collar industry of some kind.

Buffalo's decline isn't a function of having too much manufacturing. It has more to do with the loss of factories. Rochester has more manufacturing employment than Buffalo. So too do most of the New South metros like Atlanta & those in the North Carolina where so many ex-Buffalo residents have moved. LA is the biggest manufacturing center in the US.

What's funny, though, is that I read in the News a few weeks back that Buffalo had one of (or maybe the most, I don't remember) diversified economies in the US.

Don't remember what the name of the study was, though, so I can't quote it. I'm sure someone else here saw it, btw Chicago was #2.

yes, it was a Moody's study I think that put Buffalo as most diversified, followed by Chicago.

BRO had mentioned it I think.

From what I hear, there should be a major announcement regarding the newly fleshed out and enlarged Bass Pro project by the end of the year, perhaps the Friday before Christmas.

Friday the 13th before April Fools Day would be more ideal for that project!

PoliticsNY.Net: "Rumor" is the AM&A's (downtown) project has fallen thru the cracks & the new owner is shopping around for a new buyer. ###


This rumor has been floating around since they closed on the property. But apparently it is untrue- they are pinning down details for a redevelopment project that would get underway next year. Parking is going to be a big issue for them.

BPro- details out on St. Lazarus' Day is what I'm hearing.

lol.

It was Kensington, which was more white-collar and less ethnic than neighborhoods like South Buffalo, Riverside, Lovejoy, and Kaisertown. Teachers, clerks, salespeople, secretaries, cops, low-level city and county workers, retirees, and so on. Some factory workers, but not many. Pre-ghetto Kensington was a great city neighborhood; nothing fancy, not an example of fine urban planning or a place with great architecture, but very dense, walkable and liveable.

The move of the UB campus to Amherst was the biggest factor in the decline of the Kensington area. During the 1960s & up thru the late 1970s, Bailey Ave from Kensington Ave up to the UB campus (South Campus today) was a really vibrant commercial avenue, with lots of stores, restaurants, & other small businesses. It really started going downhill (along with the north end of Main St.) in the 1980s after most of UB moved out to Amherst. Had UB been expanded within & around the existing campus (that would have meant building up) the Kensington area today would probably today be more vibrant than ever before. The University council district would really live up to its name today. But of course, that didn’t happen.

The move of the UB campus to Amherst was the biggest factor in the decline of the Kensington area. During the 1960s & up thru the late 1970s, Bailey Ave from Kensington Ave up to the UB campus (South Campus today) was a really vibrant commercial avenue, with lots of stores, restaurants, & other small businesses. It really started going downhill (along with the north end of Main St.) in the 1980s after most of UB moved out to Amherst. Had UB been expanded within & around the existing campus (that would have meant building up) the Kensington area today would probably today be more vibrant than ever before. The University council district would really live up to its name today. But of course, that didn’t happen.

Wow, and I thought that area was in pretty good shape. I guess living in western ny has skewed my perspective of what is and is not a "vibrant" area.

The 3M O'cello plant is rumored to be laying off most of its employees within the next week or so. Merry Christmas! Where's Michael Moore and his camera man when you need them?:nuts:

yes, it was a Moody's study I think that put Buffalo as most diversified, followed by Chicago.

BRO had mentioned it I think.

Int that just another one of those "useless studies" you normally lambast? ;)

The move of the UB campus to Amherst was the biggest factor in the decline of the Kensington area. During the 1960s & up thru the late 1970s, Bailey Ave from Kensington Ave up to the UB campus (South Campus today) was a really vibrant commercial avenue, with lots of stores, restaurants, & other small businesses. It really started going downhill (along with the north end of Main St.) in the 1980s after most of UB moved out to Amherst. Had UB been expanded within & around the existing campus (that would have meant building up) the Kensington area today would probably today be more vibrant than ever before. The University council district would really live up to its name today. But of course, that didn’t happen.

As a little kid I remember the University and Kensington areas as being pretty nice.

I went to the Campus North school on Minnesota ave, grades K-4 (1985-89), I remember most my classmates being from nice white and black middle class families. It was majority white, but everyone got along really well and I barely distinguished my classmates by race at all. By the time I left and enrolled in another school, white flight had fully kicked into high gear and the area got considerably poorer and blacker.

Not it seems University Heights has been very slowly following the same pattern. The ratty frame houses on the streets off Main have a really hard time competing with all those brand new cookie-cutter apartment complexes around North Campus. Ghetto elements have predictably filled in the vacuum left by less and less students and white working class families living in the neighborhood each year.

Hmm, that's what I predicited about University Heights in the future thread... and people thought I was bashing Buffalo. Interesting.

Hmm, that's what I predicited about University Heights in the future thread... and people thought I was bashing Buffalo. Interesting.
actually that's false

^^^

But there is no denying the Heights has steadily gone down hill in recent years. Surprisingly, the businesses along Main has remained relatively stable, but the residential streets are getting worse and worse.

actually that's false

In Buffalospeak, false is true, and true is false. 2+2=5.

In Buffalospeak, false is true, and true is false. 2+2=5.
Happy Opposite Day!!

Homer: Wait wait wait wait wait! So in August, it's cold?
Lisa: That's right
Homer: And in February, it's hot?
Lisa: Mm-hmm
Homer: So it's opposite land! Crooks chase cops! Cats have puppies!
Lisa: No, Dad. It's just the weather
Homer: So hot snow falls up?
Lisa: (giving in weakly) Yes.
Homer: Whoo-hoo!

Actually, there was a Medaille College commercial several years back where the theme was "2+2=5". Or a similar inequity, I don't exactly remember now (it's amazing that I would remember something such as that).

In Buffalospeak, false is true, and true is false. 2+2=5.

Why are you always so negative? In Buffalo, 2+2=50, because the hardworking, down-to-earth twos in Buffalo are the biggest and best in the country! Other cities can keep their so-called "mathematics", and besides, it's just some fad of the week. Go eat at a P.F. Chang's or something. 20 minute commutes!

^ God ur such a d**k, you're as bad as DT and Pebble Creek. Take that "/Buffalo, NY USA" out from under your avatar...clearly you hate Buffalo and want nothing to do with this community. Atleast give us the respect to not claim ur part of Buffalo. Lately you've been destroying threads as much as DT.

^^^

But there is no denying the Heights has steadily gone down hill in recent years. Surprisingly, the businesses along Main has remained relatively stable, but the residential streets are getting worse and worse.

I'm not sure if you are pointing at my post...but I clearly don't deny what you say is true. I however disagreed with DT that his criticism of that area was considered "bashing."

Buffalo's decline isn't a function of having too much manufacturing. It has more to do with the loss of factories. Rochester has more manufacturing employment than Buffalo. So too do most of the New South metros like Atlanta & those in the North Carolina where so many ex-Buffalo residents have moved. LA is the biggest manufacturing center in the US.

Bayviews, you didn't notice I said DYING MANUFACTURING. Steel, auto parts, A/C's, etc. Many of the things we made in Buffalo are not being made in Atlanta, but are in Mexico, China, etc.

Yes, Rochester has more plants, but that is because of Xerox and Kodak. And they have been on a viscious decline (dare I say dying).

I find it funny that you bring up LA (USA 2nd largest city). Since they don't have a financial district like #1 NYC, I would expect them to have the most manufacturing. I saw some stat recently that shows the median income there is lower than Buffalo.

Why are you always so negative? In Buffalo, 2+2=50, because the hardworking, down-to-earth twos in Buffalo are the biggest and best in the country! Other cities can keep their so-called "mathematics", and besides, it's just some fad of the week. Go eat at a P.F. Chang's or something. 20 minute commutes!

Ehh, but you're the one who actually keeps saying it. Keep it up, and maybe you'll believe it.

Man, did you ever let the bastards get to you. I'd like to think that Buffalo as a city would not be so easily defeated.

This Development thread has gotten way offtrack AGAIN... mainly because 2 people won't give up with the sarcastic negative jabs.

Take it elsewhere, or give it a rest.

I love you homestar. Will you be my friend?

Wow, and I thought that area was in pretty good shape. I guess living in western ny has skewed my perspective of what is and is not a "vibrant" area.

True, Kensington/University certainly isn't doing badly compared to many other Buffalo neighborhoods. It's just that it seems to a slipped quite a bit from what used to be. And it's certainly not anything what it might have been had UB with 35,000 plus students & faculty stayed & expanded around the neighborhood.

^ God ur such a d**k, you're as bad as DT and Pebble Creek. Take that "/Buffalo, NY USA" out from under your avatar...clearly you hate Buffalo and want nothing to do with this community. Atleast give us the respect to not claim ur part of Buffalo. Lately you've been destroying threads as much as DT.

Read your post again. You sound just like the ultraconservatives who think that of one criticizes the president, the Iraq war or some aspect of the administration, that they're traitors who hate America and should move to France.

Besides, the d**ks are the biggest and the best in Buffalo - honest, friendly, hard-working Polish, Irish and Italian d**ks, not like those redneck d**ks in Birmingham or Charlotte, or those pretentious yuppie d**ks in the rest of the country.

Besides, the d**ks are the biggest and the best in Buffalo - honest, friendly, hard-working Polish, Irish and Italian d**ks, not like those redneck d**ks in Birmingham or Charlotte, or those pretentious yuppie d**ks in the rest of the country.

Really? I might have said Boston.

Learn something new every day. Yay! I can go back to bed now!

This Development thread has gotten way offtrack AGAIN... mainly because 2 people won't give up with the sarcastic negative jabs.

Take it elsewhere, or give it a rest.

Yes please! I'm starting to check this site less and less just because people have to bash Buffalo, give their ethnic views, or rant about anything but development. This used be a great source for information on development and things going on in the city. I'm becoming embarrassed being from Buffalo on this site because the people from Buffalo are ruining every frigging thread!!!! Take a look on other thread and it always ends up being about how Buffalo is declining. Just shut up all ready! This is supposed to be a positive website that shares ideas and news about cities. If you have an opinion that's cool, say it. But don't ruin threads and keep saying the same shit over and over again. Either get over it, get a life, or don't come here no more. And lets try and keep to what the thread is. Why do you think a Non-Development Buffalo thread was started? This whole thread should be put there!!!:bash:

I agree Spaulding. Can't believe no one mentioned the new Tim Hortons going in on the ground floor of Key Center! :lol: Evidently Dunkin Donuts is going in across the street at 598 Main, the small infill buidling by CityView at Main/Chippewa.

We'll have some development news to talk about in the coming days I hear.

In the meantime, the owner of 766 Elmwood is seeking to tear down this building next to Wilson Farms. The big unknown is if there is a development planned for the site. Park Lane owners wanted to build a new restaurant here in 1999 but changed their minds. Then Gap was talking to Benchmark about building a store but bailed. Too good of a location for just parking in my opinon. This is ground zero for Elmwood retail.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2954/76620elmwoodfg5.jpg

yay more Coffee options downtown!


And I mean this sincerely. Sometimes i'm in the mood for COFFEE not a venti maximisse mocochoclito lattee. :banana:

Oh and i'd really love to see some massive Herculean development on that Elmwood/Auburn corner.

But somehow I don't think Wilson Farms would ever budge. They make so much godamn $$$ from that store and will probably NEVER sacrifice their point-blank parking.

Isn't there a little doughnut place next to the Wilson Farms?

Pano's unveils new expansion plan (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20061213/1072042.asp)
By MICHELLE KEARNS
News Business Reporter
12/13/2006

http://www.buffalonews.com/graphics/2006/12/13/actualsize/1213sketch_mrln.jpg
A $1 million expansion would transform Pano's restaurant on Elmwood Avenue into the building shown in this drawing.

The owner of Pano's on Elmwood Avenue hopes to attract community support with his latest plan to tear down a quirky historic house and expand his popular restaurant.

As a court case about the demolition of the house with a triangular gable and rounded tower awaits a mid-January hearing, Pano Georgiadis revealed an architectural sketch of a two-story brick addition that would surround his existing one-story restaurant.

The proposed $1 million expansion would add about 2,000 square feet and 50 seats. The current building is 2,500 square feet and seats 95. The proposed parking addition behind the building would add 12 more spaces to the current 35-space lot.

Plans include a low stone wall separating the sidewalk from the two-story front, which would have a patio, big front windows and awnings. The addition would require land where the circa 1894 Atwater House now stands.

"There's nothing wrong with growing, is there?" said Georgiadis, who opened his restaurant as a small diner down the street 30 years ago.

Yet to some who pay close attention to Buffalo's cache of turn-of-the-century buildings, the tower house, which was home to a bakery and a hair salon until three years ago, is worth saving for its historic and visual appeal.

"We were against tearing down the Atwater House. There's a lot of community opposition to that," said Justin Azzarella, executive director of the Elmwood Village Association, who had yet to see the drawing. He said he expected to discuss the plan at an association board meeting this week.

Georgiadis' announcement two years ago that he intended to demolish the house led people to picket his restaurant, sign petitions and go to meetings at City Hall. When he won the right to knock the house down from a judge last year, the city appealed.

Now with the court date approaching next month, Georgiadis said he has shown his new building plans to city officials and received a positive reaction. However, Melanie Gregg, a manager at the city Office of Strategic Planning, declined to comment "because of the litigation."

"They have it, and they like it," Georgiadis said of city staffers.

He said the process these past two years has been hurtful. At a hearing, he remembers people saying that they cared more for the old house than his thriving business and roughly 75 employees.

"I don't want to fight City Hall any more," said Georgiadis, 61. "I was very stressed."

To him, the Atwater House seems like an old house with a bad foundation and needing more than $250,000 worth of repairs; to others, it seems like a crucial part of the city's heritage.

Charles LaChiusa, a retired teacher who maintains an architectural history Web site at www.ah.bfn.org, lauds the terra-cotta-colored house still standing at 1089 Elmwood.

The house, with its Orleans County sandstone porch and an eye-catching sloped gable and gambrel roof, has a historic place as the oldest on the block. It was the 1894 home of Edward Atwater, once secretary for the association that owned Forest Lawn.

In LaChiusa's eyes, Georgiadis' architectural plan for a revised Pano's doesn't match the Atwater House's beauty.

"It certainly cannot compare," said LaChiusa, a trustee for the Landmark Society of the Niagara Frontier. Perhaps the house's facade could be preserved, and Georgiadis could build his expansion around the old place, LaChiusa suggested. "So keep the front and build whatever you want around it."

Tim Tielman, of the Campaign for Greater Buffalo History, Architecture & Culture, had not seen the drawing but said it won't resolve whether the city will allow the demolition. "I think he's afraid he's going to lose in court, and I think he knows it," Tielman said.

Georgiadis said that's not true. "There's no way I'm going to lose," he said.

So far, he said, he has spent $30,000 on legal fees in the court battle. The new drawing reflects his efforts to work with people and follow the design guidelines proposed by the Elmwood Village Association.

"I hope something good comes out of it," he said.


e-mail: mkearns@buffnews.com
Didn't he previously want to demolish it in favor of parking, or am I thinking of something else?

I was doing a little search today online for some scrapers in Albany. I wound up finding something called the "Albany Tower" (which was in the UK) and it was proposed by BSC/Issa. Turns out there are a bunch of other buildings (with different names) proposed by BSC/Issa that all exactly look like the Buffalo City Tower. Its kinda funny cuz I remember when Issa was interviewed he said this area inspired the "unique" design of the Buffalo City Tower. But atleast these buildings are really getting built.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/436ManchesterRoundUp_pic2.jpg
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/331EastgateTower_pic1.jpg
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/331EastgateTower_pic2.jpg

I was doing a little search today online for some scrapers in Albany. I wound up finding something called the "Albany Tower" (which was in the UK) and it was proposed by BSC/Issa. Turns out there are a bunch of other buildings (with different names) proposed by BSC/Issa that all exactly look like the Buffalo City Tower. Its kinda funny cuz I remember when Issa was interviewed he said this area inspired the "unique" design of the Buffalo City Tower. But atleast these buildings are really getting built.

More reason to be skeptical about the Buffalo project. It doesn't look like they put too much money into a design. Seems like they reworked a couple of models and are throwing it out there to see if anything sticks. To see if there is any interest before they invest real dollars - if they have any. According to Issa's web site the dollar value of his 2 proposed Buffalo projects is more than 3/4 the value of his total existing portfilio. The more I hear about him the more skeptical I become.

But atleast these buildings are really getting built.

Are they?

Didn't he previously want to demolish it in favor of parking, or am I thinking of something else?

What they hide so elegantly in this sketch is the fact that the whole thing would be surrounded by a parking lot, so sure make it a more urban looking building, but still make it look like it belongs in the 'burbs with the parking. Yay!

Personally, I feel that this all comes down to the very segmented approach to development for which we are following along Elmwood. We really need to do some planning and determine where parking is needed and work with the developers to maximize it while not damaging the urban fabric of the street. The parking could and should be hidden from view, and in a perfect world, access from said parking would be from side streets freeing up more on the street parking in replacement of the driveways. I propose just this here (http://www.buffalorising.com/city/archives/2006/12/holiday_pops_offers_yulet.php).

According to Issa's web site the dollar value of his 2 proposed Buffalo projects is more than 3/4 the value of his total existing portfilio. The more I hear about him the more skeptical I become.

Oh Jerome, you forgot to convert his English holdings to American currency. All the dollar amounts for the English projects are in GBP which has a significantly higher value than the American dollar. Why do you think he started looking to America in the first place, great exchange rate!

I just hope he has the money to build it ;)

Oh Jerome, you forgot to convert his English holdings to American currency. All the dollar amounts for the English projects are in GBP which has a significantly higher value than the American dollar. Why do you think he started looking to America in the first place, great exchange rate!
No I didn't I converted at 1.75 dollars = 1 pound thus 500 pounds = 875 dollars. Read the Manchester thread a bit the guys appetite is bigger than his wallet. BTW the exchange rate is not that good right now by historical standards. At one time it was as high as $2.73 per pound and over $2.00 even during the 90's.

No I didn't I converted at 1.75 dollars = 1 pound thus 500 pounds = 875 dollars. Read the Manchester thread a bit the guys appetite is bigger than his wallet. BTW the exchange rate is not that good right now by historical standards. At one time it was as high as $2.73 per pound and over $2.00 even during the 90's.

Ok, well according to BSC Group's web site they are overseeing 300 million pounds worth of development in the UK, and when you convert $441 million ($361 million - Buffalo City Tower, $80 million - Statler) to GBP it is only 252 million GPB, so its not more than what he has going on in the UK. This is using your exchange rates. And yes, historically the exchange was better, but it is also still damn good now.

No I didn't I converted at 1.75 dollars = 1 pound thus 500 pounds = 875 dollars. Read the Manchester thread a bit the guys appetite is bigger than his wallet. BTW the exchange rate is not that good right now by historical standards. At one time it was as high as $2.73 per pound and over $2.00 even during the 90's.

Jerome, I was just in London- the exchange rate is 2/1. $2 US = 1 lb

Nice try though....pesky facts!

Ok, well according to BSC Group's web site they are overseeing 300 million pounds worth of development in the UK, and when you convert $441 million ($361 million - Buffalo City Tower, $80 million - Statler) to GBP it is only 252 million GPB, so its not more than what he has going on in the UK.
I never said it was more I said it was 3/4 of his total portfolio it is actually equal to 84% of his total portfolio I stand corrected.
I'd love to see the project happen but it is clearly a pipe dream.

Jerome, I was just in London- the exchange rate is 2/1. $2 US = 1 lb

Nice try though....pesky facts!Pesky indeed. You got screwed. At no time this year has the rate been above $2.00. It has been as low as $1.74 and as high as $1.96. Here is the link showing the monthly averages. At the time he first signed the offer on the Statler the exchange rate was indeed in the $1.75 range.

Word to the wise, when you argue money with a CPA - you are gonna lose. Here is a link to the monthly average exchange rates.

http://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/GBP/hist2006.html

I was doing a little search today online for some scrapers in Albany. I wound up finding something called the "Albany Tower" (which was in the UK) and it was proposed by BSC/Issa. Turns out there are a bunch of other buildings (with different names) proposed by BSC/Issa that all exactly look like the Buffalo City Tower. Its kinda funny cuz I remember when Issa was interviewed he said this area inspired the "unique" design of the Buffalo City Tower. But atleast these buildings are really getting built.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/436ManchesterRoundUp_pic2.jpg
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/331EastgateTower_pic1.jpg
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/331EastgateTower_pic2.jpg

Did Cannon design this building as well? and are they building this building in Albany???!! That would suck for us, becuase if it does get built than there is nothing special about Buffalo city tower at all. I agree with Jerome on this one, makes it seem real scetchy now.Is it the same height and everything? That is soo stupid!!!!