i found some images of the construction site from flickr by Frans Andree

WTC site 1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/2338502378_44381a0ff2_b.jpg

WTC site 2
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2254/2337665403_f572157120_b.jpg

Freedom Tower
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2157/2338501380_5ea4305e21_b.jpg

WTC Rising

http://www.wtcrising.com/images/FE/chain217siteType8/site187/client/photoGallery/189/concrete%20forms%20march%202008_big.jpg
http://www.wtcrising.com/images/FE/chain217siteType8/site187/client/photoGallery/189/men%20on%20rebar%20march%202008_big.jpg
http://www.wtcrising.com/images/FE/chain217siteType8/site187/client/photoGallery/189/view%20of%20wtc%20site%20_big.jpg
http://www.wtcrising.com/images/FE/chain217siteType8/site187/client/photoGallery/189/overlooking%20site%201_big.jpg
http://www.wtcrising.com/images/FE/chain217siteType8/site187/client/photoGallery/189/installing%20beam%20march%2008_big.jpg
http://www.wtcrising.com/images/FE/chain217siteType8/site187/client/photoGallery/189/setting%20up%20crane_big.jpg

As a whole, the building is growing out of the hole; the progress is that great. 9 feet till we touch street level.

thanx WTC 7 looks very cool btw

good update

wow that last shot of 7 wtc looks like a rendering! Such a smooth finish

Quick question, is this part of the temporary transit center (circled in red)?

And does it cover the street? I thought Greenwich was supposed to go through there (yellow horizontal arrows)?

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc18/gt2437/nyc-wtcwhat.jpg

Thx!!!

Indeed it is blocking the future street, but like you said it is only temporary. Once this is up and running and the other is demolished the permanent transit center will be built.

I think that's a temporary building there.

I've come to the realization that it's normal operating procedure. At least they are trying to meet the constr. timetable.

A little over a year ago, no one knew what was going to be built first or last. The shorter wait will be well worth it when the Freedom Tower opens for business with the other towers well underway!:banana::cheers:

that building looks amazing

Road will be thru this box maybe.( Remember wtc 7 bridge with red sculpture)

Indeed it is blocking the future street, but like you said it is only temporary. Once this is up and running and the other is demolished the permanent transit center will be built.

Thanks for the replies guys! Seems like a substantial sized building to be temporary and then plowed down for Greenwich. I checked in some other 'final' pics and sure enough it's a nice patch of grass/trees and Greenwich where that temp building currently exists. :)

http://bible-truths.com/New_wtc.jpg

Thanks for the replies guys! Seems like a substantial sized building to be temporary and then plowed down for Greenwich. I checked in some other 'final' pics and sure enough it's a nice patch of grass/trees and Greenwich where that temp building currently exists. :)

If you look at the new City Center complex being built in Las Vegas you'll see a $40,000,000 construction office building that is temporary! Talk about a waste, you'd think they could use it for maintenance, laundry or something else on the service side without having to tear it down. Hopefully they will at least salvage the steel, HVAC and some other items.

When you look at this, the scale of the temporary building at Freedom Tower is actually quite small.

Thanks for the replies guys! Seems like a substantial sized building to be temporary and then plowed down for Greenwich. I checked in some other 'final' pics and sure enough it's a nice patch of grass/trees and Greenwich where that temp building currently exists. :)

http://bible-truths.com/New_wtc.jpg



Yeah, the rendering of the completed complex shows NOTHING blocking Greenwich Street.

If you look at the new City Center complex being built in Las Vegas you'll see a $40,000,000 construction office building that is temporary! Talk about a waste, you'd think they could use it for maintenance, laundry or something else on the service side without having to tear it down. Hopefully they will at least salvage the steel, HVAC and some other items.

No, the plans are to implode the building then leave it sitting there as a pile of rusting twisted steel. Every now and then they'll burn huge piles of money on the site......just because they can.

Speaking of the PATH temporary building anyone know if they have plans for pedestrian ingress/egress beyond just blocking off the street? Seems like that might disrupt construction activities if they do.

on the webcam there is some good progress visible at the freedom tower site and the right part of the memorial. looks like speed is increasing, I'm sure the tower grows much faster once it is above ground!

on the webcam there is some good progress visible at the freedom tower site and the right part of the memorial. looks like speed is increasing, I'm sure the tower grows much faster once it is above ground!

Yeah they've got new concrete forms around most of the east steel columns.

I wonder when they'll jack up the northern core?

are they still working 2-10 hour shifts? Looks like to me there activity for almost 20 hours!

are they still working 2-10 hour shifts? Looks like to me there activity for almost 20 hours!

On Earthcam there was someone welding at the WTC2 site at 3:30AM!

^^ No, they ware just refueling the excavators. They start digging at 4AM :)
BTW, rock blasting has begun for the caissons for tower three. You can already see the first holes :cheers:

updates from flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/2338232993_bfccfd73b4_o.jpg

construction site from the top

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/2327027855_5a6be8e6f6_o.jpg

and a big nice render :D

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1078/1349390880_58cada8c25_o.jpg

This render is beautifull, there are very nice detail, I think that when this tower will be completed It will look truly amaising.

How tall is the actual building? I know that the advertised hieght is 1776 but how tall is it without counting that ridiculous hypodermic needle they have on top?

Never mind, I found it.

in the render i counted arround 85 floors

^^probably you counted wrong :)

no, there are definitely not more than 90 floors. because as far as i remember the base is only 1 floor....and above....count yourself :)

I counted 90 floors, not counting all the base....

yeah there's 90, but they cheat. they have 2 floors as one then again above that , look at the 80th floor

Wow that render is awesome

holy shi* that's a nice render

yeah there's 90, but they cheat. they have 2 floors as one then again above that , look at the 80th floor

Cheat? dude, you don't "cheat" on floors. Can be mechanical floors or something else, but I doubt the architect thought "oooh yea, le'ts put two floors instead of one, so some weird person on skyscrapercity can complain...".

But who knows, maybe he actually thought it...

well what would u call it. they have a floor with 2 windows to = 2 floors

The lobby/base looks like it'll be ~10-12 floors. I counted 88 floors on the render, so they'll be able to call it 100 floors total.

That being said... they were able to squeeze 110 floors into the original towers and it'd be nice if they could do the same here.

Looking at the webcam today it seems that part of the floorplate for B2 is going up just south of the core. I don't remember seeing that formwork and it seems that it is at the same level as the bottom of the formwork, which is 2 floors up.

How the hell do you "cheat" on floors

The lobby/base looks like it'll be ~10-12 floors. I counted 88 floors on the render, so they'll be able to call it 100 floors total.

That being said... they were able to squeeze 110 floors into the original towers and it'd be nice if they could do the same here.

anyone said the base will be only one big/tall floor ( atrium ).....when i remember right

anyone said the base will be only one big/tall floor ( atrium ).....when i remember right

I know, but they must be counting it as 10+ floors, because if they don't their floor count won't even reach 90.

anyone said the base will be only one big/tall floor ( atrium ).....when i remember right



No.

There are supposed to be some floors in there for mech / utility space.

we'll see when the construction reaches that level :)

there 12 floors in the base part as you can see on the renders (if i didnt count wrong:D). and you guys say that there are 90 floors in the upper part. that equals to 102 floor. freedom tower is supposed to be 108 floors. so what about the 6 missing floors? :nuts:

http://images.ientrymail.com/nyc-tower/gallery/2/newwtclobby.gif

http://static.flickr.com/77/202631900_047ba88411_o.jpg

the base is to account for 20 floors.

Who cares how many floors they say it has. We all know how tall it will be and that's really all that matters.

^^ true...

...but if anybody really wants to count all the floors. The best way you can do that is to wait until the tower is completed and count all the floors when you walk up the stairs, all the way up to the roof. (you can also go down if you're lazy)

maybe the underground floors are counted in the total number?

Is this floorplan accurate? I understand the reasoning behind putting the stairwells like this, but I don't see any indication of them on the renders. It also doesn't make sense given how the geometry of the building changes as you go up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/f20134cc.jpg

^^do you mean the stairs at the corner? the stairs at the corner are just for the lower portion of the building i think.
the main stairway is in the central core.

^^do you mean the stairs at the corner? the stairs at the corner are just for the lower portion of the building i think.
the main stairway is in the central core.

Ah, they are just in the base portion. That makes more sense.

there 12 floors in the base part as you can see on the renders (if i didnt count wrong:D). and you guys say that there are 90 floors in the upper part. that equals to 102 floor. freedom tower is supposed to be 108 floors. so what about the 6 missing floors? :nuts:

http://images.ientrymail.com/nyc-tower/gallery/2/newwtclobby.gif

http://static.flickr.com/77/202631900_047ba88411_o.jpg



Those 6 floors aren't really missing. They're in there somewhere.

Note the high ceilings in the base. I counted about 10 floors there, but I could be wrong.

There are about 6 other floors at the top. That might account for the ones that are supposedly missing.

Word is that the restaurant and obs deck are just below those 6 floors.

From the renders and floor plans there really dosnt look like there is much usable office space, the lobby looks really narrow also compared to the previous towers...

Here's an older diagram from 2006 showing the floors.

http://architecture.about.com/od/worldtradecenter/ig/World-Trade-Center-Plans/Freedom-Tower-Section.htm

I'd post a direct link but the picture is huge.

There IS a larger pic of the cutaway in the Freedom Tower thread at SSP, if it is still there.

Looks like they repaved in front of the new temporary transit center. I guess that answers my question on how pedestrians were gonna access it. Looks like they'll just close off that street to vehicular activity.

you know what i would like to see?
a photo update.

Americans, Call up your elected officials and tell them to stand against the Air Force deal with air buss for our new air tankers.

60,000 US jobs are at stake and we dont need to US Government to be out sourcing anymore American Jobs.

I wonder if it's this kind of attitude that makes 'most' of the rest of the world hate Americans?

This is supposed to be a world of free trade, and if Airbus offer a better package then so be it.

You'll notice that european airlines and airforces don't buy 'only' european aircraft in order to safeguard european jobs, they tend to go for the best deal to suit their current needs.

Worth a thought????

Just for the record, this isn't an anti US rant, i actually love the place, and the people in general, it's just that this kind of attitude annoys me a bit.

you know what i would like to see?
a photo update.
If it was possible to make a good photo updates of the progress without trespassing the building site this thread would be overflowing with pictures. Until it becomes more visible we can still watch all the progress 24/7 via the Earthcam (http://www.earthcam.net/users2/interface.php?i=0&id=445&projectid=202&clientid=158). And check WTCRising.com for updates from the building site.

I wonder if it's this kind of attitude that makes 'most' of the rest of the world hate Americans?

This is supposed to be a world of free trade, and if Airbus offer a better package then so be it.

You'll notice that european airlines and airforces don't buy 'only' european aircraft in order to safeguard european jobs, they tend to go for the best deal to suit their current needs.

Worth a thought????

Just for the record, this isn't an anti US rant, i actually love the place, and the people in general, it's just that this kind of attitude annoys me a bit.
Please read the 1st post of this thread.

you want updates? i have some (from flickr :D)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2093/2353957810_48cb25a79a_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2194/2350276240_9c89a3079c_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3277/2350275788_ffae80342d_o.jpg

^^ thanks for these photos, but actually we haven't seen any updates from WTC1 site in quite a few days. anyone?

^^ thanks for these photos, but actually we haven't seen any updates from WTC1 site in quite a few days. anyone?

have a look at page 198. the photos on that page are from the wtc1 site

^^ thanks for these photos, but actually we haven't seen any updates from WTC1 site in quite a few days. anyone?

The site hasn't changed that much. They are installing some forms for a section of the first basement floor and on another section they are installing rebar. Further some forms are being installed round the beams east from the core and some scaffolding is placed to install rebar on a column between the FT and the PATH tracks. :cheers:

Oh and they are installing steel beams along the western slurry wall for the WTC Memorial :)

Thanks Densetsu, those pics are great.

I just noticed that the thread title is wrong. In the title "108fl" is written. But we have counted that there are 12 floors in the lower portion and 90 floors in the upper part. That equals to 102 floors. Also you can see that Freedom Tower has 102 floors on the diagram that Culwulla drew. If i am right a moderator should change the thread title.

A part of Cul's Diagram
http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/47708/2003165158126712366_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2003165158126712366)

I can't believe we're whining about this again, but I can believe it. The PANYNJ and Silver Props have officially titled the observation floor 102; there are several floors on top of floor 102; therefore, the title should have a number over 104 and any number under 103 is clearly incorrect. Does ICC have a number under 118? Does 7WTC have a number under 52? No. Then why is it only this tower that people whine about?

I can't believe that we are still whining about this again, but I can believe it.

Does ICC have a number under 118? Does 7WTC have a number under 52? No. Then why is it only this tower that people whine about?



Seems to me that some are still not satisfied with the height of the tower no matter what they do, so they just keep on beating up on the dead horse.

But they need to just put all those complaints to bed because it'll do them no good, so they might just as well leave it alone.

Please read the 1st post of this thread.

Fair point, i'm not trolling i am a genuine poster so appologies for lowering the tone. Just that kinda attitude stinks if you ask me(i know that's only my opinion)

Back on topic, looks great to me, although i can't help thinking they should have designed the freedom tower as the 'Twin' freedom towers.

Last time I was at Ground Zero the sidewalk on Church Street was closed from the public for construction.

I didn't even attempt to get a close look.

I wonder if it's this kind of attitude that makes 'most' of the rest of the world hate Americans?

This is supposed to be a world of free trade, and if Airbus offer a better package then so be it.

You'll notice that european airlines and airforces don't buy 'only' european aircraft in order to safeguard european jobs, they tend to go for the best deal to suit their current needs.

Worth a thought????

Just for the record, this isn't an anti US rant, i actually love the place, and the people in general, it's just that this kind of attitude annoys me a bit.

LOL this is very true. You'd think someone railing against them would be able to spell Airbus correctly, as well! :lol: There are no jobs at stake, only those to gain as Airbus has manufacturing plants in the U.S. too. Northrop Grumman is Airbus' partner anyway, geez.

LOL this is very true. You'd think someone railing against them would be able to spell Airbus correctly, as well! :lol: There are no jobs at stake, only those to gain as Airbus has manufacturing plants in the U.S. too. Northrop Grumman is Airbus' partner anyway, geez.

It's outsource panic. Just last week we had an older gentlemen shriek loudly in work, then after an awkward struggle we got him back outside. When I went to my car that night I saw a shape in my back window as I approached, somethin just didnt feel right that night

Taken yesterday by Junta0691
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2364/2356299317_72b71b3d2c_b.jpg

I'm sorry but i hate the world financial center. they are really ugly.

Note the rebuilt stairs have been moved over next to 7 WTC.

already a quite time ^^

Still underground... Nice updates...

the last time i heard by june it will be above the street lev

Sometime in the summer.

WTC.com

From two weeks ago, but you can really see how different sections of the core rise with their own pace.

http://www.wtc.com/uploads/images/712x534/8_37_wtcsite-feb-2008.jpg

The whole site is beyond massive and in just under a year will be covered with tower cranes and lots of other eye candy. The process of the hole, aside from the area of the plots of the towers, being brough to grade, I assume, will require some amount of steel and concrete or rubble to close it all up.

Seems to me that some are still not satisfied with the height of the tower no matter what they do, so they just keep on beating up on the dead horse.

But they need to just put all those complaints to bed because it'll do them no good, so they might just as well leave it alone.

More floors are always appealing, but the bottom line is that we have an obs deck (and a possible new Windows on the World restaraunt) that is over 400m off the ground! :cheers:

if people want to whine about floor count, then try visiting the Stratosphere Tower in Vegas! The observation starts at 750ft-800ft above ground, yet when you get out of the elevator you are on floor 108! I know its just a tower and a lot of them do this, but its really funny when even the people working in this tower believe its 108+ LEGIT floors!! :lol:

Where exactly is that other office tower going on Church Street across from Ground Zero
that Silverstein is planning to build?

is it me or is this tower taking forever? they haven't even finished with the groundworks yet!

is it me or is this tower taking forever? they haven't even finished with the groundworks yet!

:bash::bash::banned:

is it me or is this tower taking forever? they haven't even finished with the groundworks yet!

Yes it's you, they've finished ground work about half a year ago. They are now building the basement floors.

but not really fast ^^

You guys, I swear. How fast do you think it should be built, overnight?

If you're complaining this much about the pace of THIS tower, then what will you do when the OTHER ones get started on the EASTERN half of Ground Zero? Complain that they should be built in two months?:ohno:^^

Some don't understand that constructing quality in one of the most densely used areas in the world takes time, more time then building a tower in a dessert with a square kilometer of construction site around...

Yeah, other constr. projects take even longer.

never seen a tower where the first and 2nd floor for the core took so long. i mean...over one month for one floor???

never seen a tower where the first and 2nd floor for the core took so long.

that's right .... they need much time :bash:

never seen a tower where the first and 2nd floor for the core took so long. i mean...over one month for one floor???

it's Ny

You people really are doomed to a life of ignorance. We're not at the stage where it takes one week for one floor, which we'll see late this year, but it is anything but slow considering the size and that we really just started building around one year ago.

No other city in the world will have such a massive office complex with such unmatched towers. The only other place I can think of that could match this office project is NYC... midtown NYC. They say the winner of the Hudson Center projects is Tishman and they are planning over 13MSF of world-class office space with two twins towers at around 900 feet tall and another two twin towers over 1,100 feet tall, plus other towers too. That area of NYC west of the ESB with all of the big plans will make the WTC area look like nothing.

Maybe we should just leave them alone because it seems as though the more we try to explain the nature of the work to them, the more impatient they become.

Where exactly is that other office tower going on Church Street across from Ground Zero
that Silverstein is planning to build?

Are you referring to 99 Church Street?

Yes, it will be directly across the street from Tower 2 at 915 feet tall. :banana:

Looks likes its progressing well.

Are you referring to 99 Church Street?

Yes, it will be directly across the street from Tower 2 at 915 feet tall. :banana:

No there's supposed to be some office skyscraper he's planning on Church Street, not 99. But I don't know if it's true or not cause I can't find any info that mentions it.

never seen a tower where the first and 2nd floor for the core took so long. i mean...over one month for one floor???

It's an American unions thing, you wouldn't understand!

You people really are doomed to a life of ignorance. We're not at the stage where it takes one week for one floor, which we'll see late this year, but it is anything but slow considering the size and that we really just started building around one year ago.

No other city in the world will have such a massive office complex with such unmatched towers. The only other place I can think of that could match this office project is NYC... midtown NYC. They say the winner of the Hudson Center projects is Tishman and they are planning over 13MSF of world-class office space with two twins towers at around 900 feet tall and another two twin towers over 1,100 feet tall, plus other towers too. That area of NYC west of the ESB with all of the big plans will make the WTC area look like nothing.
oh really, there are citys out there that have twice the size of this area and these towers are no where near unmatched towers. these towers are a joke, a 2 yr old could design these. there plain and simple. nothing special. just because there at asite were 9-11 happend doesnt mean there unmatched towers or great buildings. the projects that are going up in Ny are very small in size, if u comepare them to other projects outside Ny. this site is only 15 acres. thats a small lot compared to the projects around the world.

They are by far unmatched in many different areas, and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and have only proven yourself to be locked up in your own little fantasy world. What you have said is funny to a degree, but sad to another. Acres, 2 years, how incredibly inane. What does empty plot size have to do with anything? Look at me, I have lots of open space in a small complex; therefore, I am superior to you. In fact, it is said that these buildings will help to redefine the skyscraper by meeting standards never before met before. In terms of skyscrapers, you can't get much more important.

oh really, there are citys out there that have twice the size of this area and these towers are no where near unmatched towers. these towers are a joke, a 2 yr old could design these. there plain and simple. nothing special. just because there at asite were 9-11 happend doesnt mean there unmatched towers or great buildings. the projects that are going up in Ny are very small in size, if u comepare them to other projects outside Ny. this site is only 15 acres. thats a small lot compared to the projects around the world.


theres larger projects around the world, both in land size and taller,agree with u on that, but quality beats quantity imo, i would side with 15 acres of almost perfectly planned development against a 100 acre development poorly designed , anyday. Yeah the new WTC towers are simple, but the sheer size is amazing, and that could make tha area unmatched imo. :)

They are by far unmatched in many different areas, and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about and have only proven yourself to be locked up in your own little fantasy world. What you have said is funny to a degree, but sad to another. Acres, 2 years, how incredibly inane. What does empty plot size have to do with anything? Look at me, I have lots of open space in a small complex; therefore, I am superior to you.

do explain how they are by far unmatched in many different areas ???, your locked up in your own little fantasy world thinking these shity simple box towers are far unmatched when they are not.

deleted

What does the area size have to do with anything? The site is 16 acres, but it doesn't mean that it is all being developed; a 1,000 acre development could be called a development with only having 1 acre built up on.

well you said

No other city in the world will have such a massive office complex with such unmatched towers.
and there is projects out there. that do massive office complex and unmatched towers.

well you said
and there is projects out there. that do massive office complex and unmatched towers.

Anything with over 13MSF of class-A office space, with dozens of trading floors, and a massive mall with world-class architecture, setting new standards, wholly in skyscraper form? Then you got my attention. Until then, cut out.

It even beats out the old WTC.

let me see the Dubia mall has class architecture, and the Dubai international financial centre area has alot of trading floors. its on its way to become the number 1 financial centre in the world.

omfg both of you shut up

lol..:lol:

let me see the Dubia mall has class architecture, and the Dubai international financial centre area has alot of trading floors. its on its way to become the number 1 financial centre in the world.

Helghast, having a lot of skyscrapers doesn't make you the biggest financial center. London is a biggest financial center than Chicago, but it doesn't have nearly as many skyscrapers. A city becomes a financial center through different aspects: favorable laws, and strategic position: Singapore and Hong Kong have perfect positions for the Asian market, London is the bridge with the US for money in transition with Europe, and New York has the United States (biggest market and richest country in the world.
Dubai? It is not even in the top 10 countries in the world (in terms of wealth) and it is only one city (the emirates are divided, and even if you put them together, the only other city of any importance is Abu Dhabi. Economic power? GDP? extremely low. Same as it's chances to become a finance center like hong kong (let alone New York, where even the modern concept of free trade was invented, let alone the stock exchange).

oh really, there are citys out there that have twice the size of this area and these towers are no where near unmatched towers. these towers are a joke, a 2 yr old could design these. there plain and simple. nothing special. just because there at asite were 9-11 happend doesnt mean there unmatched towers or great buildings. the projects that are going up in Ny are very small in size, if u comepare them to other projects outside Ny. this site is only 15 acres. thats a small lot compared to the projects around the world.



Then get a 2-year-old to design and build them.:nuts:

let me see the Dubia mall has class architecture, and the Dubai international financial centre area has alot of trading floors. its on its way to become the number 1 financial centre in the world.

It's always the Dubai people who come in here and destroy this thread. Knock it off!:ohno:

Well what the heck happened to immediate bannings?

It's an American unions thing, you wouldn't understand!

ALL the buildings put up in Chicago and NYC are put up by union crews, most progress much faster, some possibly slower, the issue is not with the unionized workforce.

do explain how they are by far unmatched in many different areas ???, your locked up in your own little fantasy world thinking these shity simple box towers are far unmatched when they are not.

Many times, the simplest designs speak the loudest. Don't get caught up in your own little fantasy world thinking that size is all that matters and that over-designed buildings are instantly of high quality. There are few sites in the world with this amount of density placed on 15 acres. I'd like to see any other city in the world try to pull off this amount of intricacy in terms of infrastructure and sheer mettle. I can tell you right now, it could only be done by a very select few.

let me see the Dubia mall has class architecture, and the Dubai international financial centre area has alot of trading floors. its on its way to become the number 1 financial centre in the world.

Lol wow.. someone's disillusioned :banana:! Maybe he's one of the premier financiers of Dubai's ill-fated "boom".

Here we go AGAIN, Moderators please do your JOB!!!!!!

I'm so sick of the references to ugly and deserted Dubai on every single New York skyscraper thread. For the 10th time, it's much simpler to build skyscrapers on that vacant desert than it is to build in such a densely populated area!!

Enough!

I think they're also building carefully to avoid disrupting PATH service below/nearby.

This helghast character seems to be the neighborhood kid who tries to lunge himself under passing bicycles for insurance money.

This helghast character seems to be the neighborhood kid who tries to lunge himself under passing bicycles for insurance money.

From my personal experience that is not a good way to make a living.

lets drop the case, you guys talking about being off topic but yet you still keep going

let me see the Dubia mall has class architecture, and the Dubai international financial centre area has alot of trading floors. its on its way to become the number 1 financial centre in the world.



This thread is not about any part of the Burj Dubai Mall, Tower, or anything else concerning that constr. project at all. It's about the Freedom Tower.

Why do some of you have to come to this thread and continue on with your Burj Dubai ramblings? No wonder this thread is always in danger of being locked!:ohno::nuts:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8205/0645xz8.jpg

They are pouring the rest of the floor today as seen on the webcam.

I never noticed before that the ramp had lights as well.

^^ Are you serious? Thats quite bad :nuts::lol:

They are taking it down when the temporary PATH station is opened in the next coming month. It is in the way of the permanent train station.

It seems they are making excellent progress on puting down the rebar for the first loor on the western side of the core. Some serious progress is going on in the site.

I have so far see the WTC site in 2002, 2005, 2007 and 2008. The progress is slow but very evident! I can't wait to see DT once everything is built! I love the financial district anyway, so this is just great news for me!

And please, not everyone wants to talk about Dubai all the time. Yes, we're all very proud of you and your tower and your mall and your islands, but I remember a time when each thread was devoted to the said topic. Please stay on topic or stay out.

It seems they are making excellent progress on putting down the rebar for the first floor on the western side of the core. Some serious progress is going on in the site.

Make that the 2nd floor. The core has to rise another floor before they can do the B1 floor.

That pic is amazing. The building side seems to be huge. How big is it anyway?

PS. To all those Dubai cheerleaders. Stick to your topics. We already know which cities are both important from all and various aspects and great to live in.

I didnt mean first floor as in B1, I meant that as the first floor that isn't on the bedrock

B3 is the floor you're referring to. Most of the new floor now visible is B2. Just to be clear.

The memorial takes up too much room IMO. Please don't flame me on this comment; what I'm saying is that the Port Authority is allocating a large portion of the site for a memorial. The site being the place where the towers once stood. Why not turn France or Germany into large memorials, plenty of people lost their lives there during World War II. The families of WTC victims have too much power and are stalling the interests of business and progress in New York.

Where is Daniel Libeskind...??? He should take over and build his original design...!!!!!!!!!

Where is Daniel Libeskind...??? He should take over and build his original design...!!!!!!!!!



Libeskind was canned from Ground Zero as a designer. He fought too much with Silverstein an Childs over the design of the tower.

He sometimes resurfaces when a special event comes up.

wait a second here. did i hear someone say DUBAI is on its way to being the number one financial center in the world.
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :colgate:




hehe....

Libeskind was canned from Ground Zero as a designer. He fought too much with Silverstein an Childs over the design of the tower.

He sometimes resurfaces when a special event comes up.

Is that correct? I thought Liebeskind is still credited as the "co-designer" of Freedom Tower along with Slivertein's architect?

I have so far see the WTC site in 2002, 2005, 2007 and 2008. The progress is slow but very evident! I can't wait to see DT once everything is built! I love the financial district anyway, so this is just great news for me!

And please, not everyone wants to talk about Dubai all the time. Yes, we're all very proud of you and your tower and your mall and your islands, but I remember a time when each thread was devoted to the said topic. Please stay on topic or stay out.

Problem #1: Why is people assume that development started in 2001-2002? Its best compare to 2006.

Hello people!!!, its took almost 3-4 years to just recover millions of bones. Let me refresh people's retarded brains: almost 2000 people died there!!!

Problem #2: the final touches weren't completed until few years ago so don't even f*cking say construction is too long!!! I don't hear any bitching about SHANGHAI World Financial Center although construction on THAT tower started in 1997.

Problem #3: here is f*cking timeline http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4951346.stm

Is that correct? I thought Liebeskind is still credited as the "co-designer" of Freedom Tower along with Slivertein's architect?



Yes, he WAS co-designer of the tower, but I think he was paid off and shown the door.

Also, since the tower was redesigned anyway, his plan were put to bed after the tower was given its present facelift.:cheers:

Thank you webeagle for your ridiculous rant. I am well aware of what has happened at the WTC site since 2001. I am no ignorant idiot. My comment was supposed to express my excitement at watching it turn from a horrific disaster site to a bustling construction site. And even if it wasn't, what's your problem? Chill out dude.

Oh, and just to reassert my credentials, my mother was born in NYC, i lived there for part of my childhood, virtually all of my extended family lives in the NYC area, and I have been to the city countless times on vacation. We lost family friends in the disaster and I still hate looking at the skyline without the Twins towering overhead. So trust me, I know quite a bit about the timeline and I know about bone recovery. I even reread my post several times, trying to figure out how you could misconstrue my writing so horribly and I don't get it. I never lament about the slow pace, I never discount the deaths, and I never chastise anyone for taking their time. Seriously, webeagle, what a silly silly post.

Oh, and just to reassert my credentials, my mother was born in NYC, i lived there for part of my childhood, virtually all of my extended family lives in the NYC area, and I have been to the city countless times on vacation. We lost family friends in the disaster and I still hate looking at the skyline without the Twins towering overhead. So trust me, I know quite a bit about the timeline and I know about bone recovery. I even reread my post several times, trying to figure out how you could misconstrue my writing so horribly and I don't get it. I never lament about the slow pace, I never discount the deaths, and I never chastise anyone for taking their time. Seriously, webeagle, what a silly silly post.

Top man, don't let him get to you mate. You get all sorts on the net.

Problem #1: Why is people assume that development started in 2001-2002? Its best compare to 2006.

Hello people!!!, its took almost 3-4 years to just recover millions of bones. Let me refresh people's retarded brains: almost 2000 people died there!!!

Problem #2: the final touches weren't completed until few years ago so don't even f*cking say construction is too long!!! I don't hear any bitching about SHANGHAI World Financial Center although construction on THAT tower started in 1997.

Problem #3: here is f*cking timeline http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4951346.stm

Quite a striking comment your making there. To get to the point, this tower IS being constructed slowly compared with other's, you're interpreting his comment too pessimistically, we KNOW that people died there, who said they didn't? who says the towers are being constructed slowly because the workers are incompetent, Americans are inferior Et cetera? He's only commenting on what he sees; its merely a statement my friend, not a flaming comment.

Quite a striking comment your making there. To get to the point, this tower IS being constructed slowly compared with other's, you're interpreting his comment too pessimistically, we KNOW that people died there, who said they didn't? who says the towers are being constructed because the workers are incompetent, Americans are inferior Et cetera? He's only commenting on what he sees; its merely a statement my friend, not a flaming comment.

Quite a dumb comment you're making there..eh? Who said anything about him being American. You probably dont realize this but New York and the US in general has a very diverse population. Whats with the generalizations about Americans?

Ahh....I see your profile mentions London.....I guess, according to your logic, you're a violent soccer hooligan with pale skin and rotten yellow teeth?....eh mate?? More European jealousy and self loathing disguised as sophistication?...eh??

To get to the point, this tower IS being constructed slowly compared with other's


It's greased lightening compared to the never-ending saga of the London Bridge Tower.....

I meant to post this originally when it made the headlines, but I forgot about it until now.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02262008/news/regionalnews/pa_is_shut_out_of_wtc_insurance_99273.htm
PA IS SHUT OUT OF WTC INSURANCE

By KATI CORNELL

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02262008/photos/news002a.jpg
BIG ZERO: A judge says leasing the Twin Towers to Ground Zero developer...

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02262008/photos/news002b.jpg
...Larry Sivlerstein made the PA ineligible for insurance money.

February 26, 2008 -- The Port Authority lost its right to collect insurance money on the destroyed Twin Towers - and much of the World Trade Center - when it leased the property two months before the 9/11 terror attacks, a federal judge ruled yesterday.

In a written opinion, Manhattan federal Judge Barbara Jones limited claims by the New York-New Jersey Port Authority to buildings that weren't leased to developer Larry Silverstein.

The judge noted Silverstein had his own insurance.

The ruling, which came in response to a lawsuit by a collection of insurance companies, allows the PA's claims to go forward on World Trade Center 6 and the PATH train station.

A PA spokesman had no immediate comment on the latest twist in the many battles over insurance spawned by the destruction of the towers that anchored Manhattan's financial center.

The amount of insurance money the bistate agency will get is a critical issue, partly because construction costs keep climbing and several projects, including the memorial, have already been scaled back.

The PA recently finished the excavation work needed for Silverstein to begin work on two of the three skyscrapers he will build.

But several other hurdles to the vast rebuilding project remain, including completing demolition of the Deutsche Bank building, just south of where the World Trade Center stood.

Jones, in her ruling, also rejected the agency's claim she should not rule until Silverstein had fulfilled his obligation to rebuild the complex.

"Not only does the Port Authority fail to support this argument with citation to any case law, but this position is, in fact, contradicted by the controlling decisions on this issue," she wrote.

"We are gratified that the court agreed with our analysis," said Kenneth Erickson, a lawyer for the Lloyd's of London, which spearheaded the insurance companies' suit.

The Port Authority was fighting to recover an estimated $2 billion shortfall that Silverstein wasn't able to collect under his own insurance policies.

Silverstein entered a 99-year lease on much of the World Trade Center in July 2001 and is required to rebuild the complex.

His lease covered 1 WTC, 2WTC, 4 WTC and 5 WTC.

The PA has estimated losses on its portions of the site at approximately $3 billion.

With Post Wire Services

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/27/nyregion/27rebuild.html?scp=1&sq=Larry+Silverstein&st=nyt
Developer Sues to Win $12.3 Billion in 9/11 Attack

By ANEMONA HARTOCOLLIS
Published: March 27, 2008

Larry A. Silverstein, who has won nearly $4.6 billion in insurance payments to cover his losses and help him rebuild at the World Trade Center site, is seeking $12.3 billion in damages from airlines and airport security companies for the 9/11 attack.

Mr. Silverstein, the developer of ground zero, sought the damages, whose amount was not previously known, in a claim filed in 2004, that says the airlines and airport security companies failed to prevent terrorists from hijacking the planes used to destroy the buildings.

His case was consolidated last week with similar, earlier lawsuits brought by families of some victims of the attack and by other property owners. But in seeking $12.3 billion, he is by far the biggest claimant in the litigation.

The size of Mr. Silverstein’s claim was revealed last week at a status conference on the litigation in United States District Court in Manhattan.

The claims by the parties involved total about $23 billion, and Mr. Silverstein’s claim for such a large chunk could jeopardize claims from other businesses and property owners, according to defense lawyers. A lawyer for the victims’ families, Donald Migliori, said he was confident that their claims would not be affected because they would take priority over the property claims.

A lawyer for the airlines, Desmond Barry, said that if Mr. Silverstein won his claim, he could push the total claims beyond the amount of insurance that the airlines and security companies have available. “There ain’t that much insurance,” Mr. Barry said.

The federal government has capped the liability at the amount of available insurance, to avoid bankrupting the airlines. The exact amount of insurance available is still being explored in the court proceedings.

Richard A. Williamson, a lawyer for Mr. Silverstein, said at the court conference on March 18 that Mr. Silverstein was seeking damages to compensate him for continuing losses at the site. Mr. Silverstein, through his company, World Trade Center Properties, has a 99-year lease, worth $3.2 billion, on four buildings at the site, including the fallen twin towers. He signed the lease in July 2001, just six weeks before the attack.

Since the attack, Mr. Silverstein has been paying rent to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey on towers that no longer exist, his lawyer told the judge, Alvin K. Hellerstein. Mr. Williamson said that his client had also lost rental income from about 400 tenants.

Dara McQuillan, a spokesman for Mr. Silverstein, said that the $12.3 billion represented $8.4 billion for the replacement value of the destroyed buildings and $3.9 billion in other costs, including $100 million a year in rent to the Port Authority and $300 million a year in lost rental income, as well as the cost of marketing and leasing the new buildings.

Mr. Barry, speaking for the airlines, contended that Mr. Silverstein had been more than compensated by the nearly $4.6 billion insurance settlement, reached after almost six years of litigation. He argued that Mr. Silverstein was entitled to the market value of the property, which he said had been established by the $3.2 billion lease.

Judge Hellerstein expressed skepticism about Mr. Silverstein’s claim, and asked why he had not stemmed his losses by just “walking away.”

Turning to Mr. Williamson, Judge Hellerstein asked: “What’s the nature of your recovery?”

To which Mr. Williamson replied, “For damages suffered by the events of 9/11, not value. Damages.”

Mr. Williamson said that the lease required Mr. Silverstein to rebuild and to continue paying rent.

“And so I’m putting to you if you walked away from the lease, you would lose the value of the lease,” Judge Hellerstein said. “Would you have a further obligation to pay money?”

Mr. Williamson replied, “You have to examine that question. “But to me that’s not the test of what are our damages.”

Judge Hellerstein pressed Mr. Williamson to put a dollar figure on the damages. “I don’t think it’s necessary to know the precise amount,” the judge said. “I think some order of magnitude would be appropriate.”

When Mr. Williamson balked, Mr. Barry jumped in.

“I think their claim is $12.3 billion,” he said.

“Plus prejudgement interest,” Mr. Williamson confirmed.

To which the judge tartly replied, “We shouldn’t forget that.”

Judge Hellerstein ordered Mr. Silverstein to provide more documentation of his claim, or risk losing it.

Mr. McQuillan, the spokesman for Mr. Silverstein, said on Wednesday the developer felt both an obligation under his lease and a moral obligation to rebuild, rather than walk away. He said that the insurance companies who paid him would be repaid if he prevails.

Plaintiffs also revealed that after a spate of settlements, there are seven wrongful death cases and two injury cases remaining, out of more than 90 filed.

Those who sued represent just a small fraction of the casualties on Sept. 11. Most of the victims of the attack and their families chose to take the compensation offered through a federal fund, forgoing their right to sue.

Mr. Migliori, the lawyer for victims’ survivors, said he believed that the claimants with property-damage claims — including Mr. Silverstein and some insurance companies trying to recoup their payments — would allow the death and injury cases to get priority in payment of damages.

The judge declined to set any trial date in the case, saying that it would be “fictitious,” but set a fact-finding deadline at the end of this year. Any trials in the case appear to be more than a year away.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03242008/news/regionalnews/eye_on_17_wtc_cranes_103250.htm
EYE ON 17 WTC CRANES

EXTRA SAFETY AT SITE

By TOM TOPOUSIS

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03242008/photos/new09a.jpg

March 24, 2008 -- With fears rising over crane safety since the disaster in Midtown, the Port Authority plans a crane-inspection process at the World Trade Center that far exceeds city standards.

By early next year, the WTC will have the largest concentration of tower cranes of any building site in the nation, with 17 enormous hoists - some of which will rise higher than the Twin Towers once stood.

"There's no other proj ect in America, or in the world, with so many tower cranes," said PA Executive Director An thony Shorris.

"It's not just that there will be so many, but that the whole site is just 16 acres," said Shorris.

Shorris said the PA planning began well before the March 8 disaster on East 51st Street.

The World Trade Center site is owned by the PA and is not subject to city building or fire regulations.

But Shorris said the agency has asked the two city agencies to take part, with regular inspections of the cranes.

"The Fire Department comes in every two weeks and the Buildings Department will be in to inspect the cranes," Shorris said.

"We not only want to meet city standards; we want to go beyond the city standards."

The city inspections will be in addition to reviews done by the PA's own safety officials and inspectors for the contractors building the towers.

Citywide, there are roughly 40 tower cranes at work. The city unit charged with checking those cranes has come under fire since one inspector was charged last week with falsifying records of inspections at the disaster site.

The WTC will be an increased burden for the Buildings Department, which has six inspectors who can monitor cranes.

By 2009, all 17 cranes and their accompanying projects will be rising above the World Trade Center.

Two tower cranes are already at work on the Freedom Tower, with a third to be added as the building approaches street level. Those cranes will have to rise taller than the building's rooftop at 1,368 feet - the height of the Twin Towers.

Meanwhile, a civic group yesterday began a petition aimed at halting further construction on the high-rise where the crane collapsed, killing seven people.

The building, at 303 E. 51 St., is now at 18 stories.

The petition, begun by the Turtle Bay Association, states that allowing the structure to go to its planned 43 stories would require the use of a crane similar to the one that collapsed, posing a threat to the community.

"It would be relatively simple to just . . . leave it at 18 stories," said association Vice President Bruce Silberblatt.

Additional reporting by Leonardo Blair

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03272008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/downtown_unraveling_103783.htm
DOWNTOWN UNRAVELING

March 27, 2008 -- WORLD Trade Center-area reconstruction suddenly seems on the brink of un raveling again. The ascension of woefully inexperienced David Paterson to the governor's job threatens to unleash anarchy Downtown.

Yes, work is underway on the Freedom Tower and the memorial - but large questions linger about how they'll actually look when finished, compared with what the public's been led to expect.

Eliot Spitzer at least had a handle on the Ground Zero agenda and commanded some respect from the principal players. Under the green new governor, agendas and plans once set in stone now look to be as flexible as they were in the George Pataki years.

Don't bet a dime on the timetables recently announced with great fanfare by developer Larry Silverstein, the Port Authority and the Lower Manhattan Development Corp. Three ominous developments over the past few days call into question even the most concrete-sounding plans:

* As The Post first reported on March 18 in the wake of JP Morgan Chase's plan to take over Bear Stearns, Morgan will move its investment banking unit into Bear's tower on Madison Avenue - meaning it has no need to build a new headquarters at 130 Liberty St., as it once planned.

Sure, Morgan - feeling heat from Speaker Sheldon Silver, who represents Downtown - says it's still interested in using the site for some kind of building. But the Port Authority is already thinking about using the site for something completely different, like a hotel or a mixed-use project.

Even if Morgan decides to make a deal with the PA, it will likely be for a smaller tower than the 1.1 million square-foot jumbo it had wanted. So it would surely seek softer terms than the $300 million land lease for which it has a handshake with the PA.

That in turn would delay things further - or give either side an excuse to back out. (The Morgan-PA deal has always been non-binding, and will remain so until they draw up a contract and sign it - a process that hasn't even started.)

And nobody can build even a woodshed at the site until the LMDC takes down the old Deutsche Bank ruin - a job for which the LMDC refuses to give a time estimate, although decontamination has resumed.

* LMDC Chairman Avi Schick - the same fellow who has presided over the failure to take down 130 Liberty St. - is now throwing a monkey wrench into the MTA's tormented Fulton Street Transit Center project.

The Fulton boondoggle (first budgeted at $750 million and now pushing $1.2 billion) was already spinning its wheels as the MTA tries to milk more dough out of the state (i.e., the taxpayers).

The MTA doesn't have nearly enough money to build the above-ground domed pavilion that was the project's public face. Nor has the agency even started on "untangling" the existing station's "maze" of platforms, which was the scheme's entire original raison d'etre.

Worse, the MTA has torn up streets and sidewalks to build an unnecessary pedestrian tunnel that will eventually (maybe by the end of the century?) connect the Fulton station with the PA's new PATH terminal at Ground Zero (another delayed, over-budget scheme that might not ultimately resemble what's been shown to the public).

Now the New York Observer reports that Schick recently "brought forward" an idea to move the Performing Arts Center that's planned for Ground Zero to the above-ground part of the Fulton Transit project.

Although the Observer termed Schick's brainstorm an "idea" but "not yet a proposal," it's all too clear what it means: Nobody has any idea what to build at the Fulton Street site, a once-active block that's now a rat-infested vacant lot - a Son of Ground Zero two blocks from the real thing.

It also means the whole Fulton project is in play - subject to political whims and power plays on top of its existing chaos.

The arts center was long regarded as an integral part of WTC reconstruction; for an official of Schick's stature even to suggest yanking it entirely off-site means Ground Zero itself is not safe from further political interference.

* The Daily News reports that the NYPD wants to take over Ground Zero security from the Port Authority - a power play "driven," the paper said, by the NYPD's "growing concerns" about "security flaws" in the three office towers Silverstein is to build along Church Street.

That should sound familiar. Belated NYPD "security" concerns scuttled the original Freedom Tower in May 2005 and resulted in a year-long delay to redesign the building, which is now - finally - under construction by the Port Authority.

The NYPD's sudden qualms about Silverstein's towers raise exactly the same unavoidable (but never properly answered) questions that came up in 2005: Since the tower designs were made public two years ago, why did the NYPD wait until now - just as work is actually starting - to butt in?

Conspiracy-mongering is the last thing we need at Ground Zero, a place that's already fostered far too many wacky theories about what "really" happened on 9/11. But a PA-NYPD scrimmage over security sure sounds like a threat to getting the buildings out of the ground, just days after we were given assurances they'd be up in no time at all.

I'd be nothing short of shocked if the NYPD actually managed to mess up the other three towers. Like the article said, they had several YEARS to complain about security. This train isn't going to stop for anyone this time around, and I hope others are as disgusted with the NYPD as I am.

hola, 17 cranes...that's very much!

There's a horde of cranes over at the GST as well!

WOW, that is a lot of cranes! i will need to get up there to see that in 2009! to bad it cant be like that in april when i head to nyc

Originally Posted by storms991 View Post
Quite a striking comment your making there. To get to the point, this tower IS being constructed slowly compared with other's, you're interpreting his comment too pessimistically, we KNOW that people died there, who said they didn't? Who says the towers are being constructed slowly because the workers are incompetent, Americans are inferior Et cetera? He's only commenting on what he sees; its merely a statement my friend, not a flaming comment.

Quite a dumb comment you're making there..eh? Who said anything about him being American. You probably dont realize this but New York and the US in general has a very diverse population. Whats with the generalizations about Americans?

Ahh....I see your profile mentions London.....I guess, according to your logic, you're a violent soccer hooligan with pale skin and rotten yellow teeth?....eh mate?? More European jealousy and self loathing disguised as sophistication?...eh??

Please please please read my comment more carefully; you'll see I'm on your side. What's wrong with loving the beautiful game?

Why would the hub have FOUR freaking tower cranes and the massive supertall skyscrapers only have three? Is it because of the highly complex steel structure and the fact that the towers have massive concrete cores?

Why would the hub have FOUR freaking tower cranes and the massive supertall skyscrapers only have three? Is it because of the highly complex steel structure and the fact that the towers have massive concrete cores?

Probably because the towers are being built with private money (Silverstein's) and thus have a budget to adhere to. While the transportation hub is being built by the government and thus has little or no respect for budgets since it's being built using taxpayer money! :bash:

^^ calm down! They will probably use crawler cranes for the hub. Using 4 tower cranes sounds unpractical too me for such a relatively small space. Crawler cranes, like the onces you'll now see in the memorial, are way better for this job.

Probably because the towers are being built with private money (Silverstein's) and thus have a budget to adhere to. While the transportation hub is being built by the government and thus has little or no respect for budgets since it's being built using taxpayer money! :bash:

Thats the funniest thing I have heard in a while. If anyone is on y abudget its the Port Authority. The transit hub has already been valued engineered at least 2 times.

Everyone was asking for pictures, so I took a few today.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2323/2372431208_034692058c_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2062/2371596611_1e9fae76fe_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2104/2371592803_1a19ab0598_b.jpg

ehhhhhhhh WOW look at GSHQ they are progressing well with the facade and are nearly to topping out this baby.......it was coming up like from one to the other day.....IMPRESSIVE!!!!!!!!indeed.I love that the glas is simmilar to WFC and WTC7......so many thanks for those brilliant images econ tim!!!!!

I see on the first pic that FT is nearly really nearly at street level, once it is at this stage i think it will defanetely shoot up to the sky.......furthermore this is one really active site now...

BTW: when will the remove this "temporary tent PATH structure" and build the real PATH hub?

Looks like the GSHQ Tower is about to be topped off soon!

Picture perfect day for taking some pics of Ground Zero!! Good work!

BTW: when will the remove this "temporary tent PATH structure" and build the real PATH hub?

Well, i think the temporary one opens in a month or two? Then they can start tearing down the other one.

When will this tower reach street level? (or look any different than the last year?)

More steel was added today, including one that went at the back end where the PATH tunnel is.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2104/2371592803_1a19ab0598_b.jpg

Look at that shot !!

GS looks like it's about to be topped out any moment now.

Downtown Manhattan is finally starting to change.

It's about time! :banana:

Is it just an illusion, or does it appears as though 7 WTC will still remain taller than the GS Tower?

7WTC looks taller because it is in the foreground ^^

They're definitely pouring part of one of the basement floors. Now they just need to jack up the north (is that right?) end of the core and it'll feel like Christmas.

ive been away for a week and ive been trying to catch up, what is the disaster there on about with the crane that collapsed and killed 7?? i cant find much about it.

That had nothing at all to do with the WTC or lower Manhattan.

oh...well ot are they complaining about then :P jk

I meant to post this originally when it made the headlines, but I forgot about it until now.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02262008/news/regionalnews/pa_is_shut_out_of_wtc_insurance_99273.htm
PA IS SHUT OUT OF WTC INSURANCE

By KATI CORNELL

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02262008/photos/news002a.jpg
BIG ZERO: A judge says leasing the Twin Towers to Ground Zero developer...

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02262008/photos/news002b.jpg
...Larry Sivlerstein made the PA ineligible for insurance money.

February 26, 2008 -- The Port Authority lost its right to collect insurance money on the destroyed Twin Towers - and much of the World Trade Center - when it leased the property two months before the 9/11 terror attacks, a federal judge ruled yesterday.

In a written opinion, Manhattan federal Judge Barbara Jones limited claims by the New York-New Jersey Port Authority to buildings that weren't leased to developer Larry Silverstein.

The judge noted Silverstein had his own insurance.

The ruling, which came in response to a lawsuit by a collection of insurance companies, allows the PA's claims to go forward on World Trade Center 6 and the PATH train station.

A PA spokesman had no immediate comment on the latest twist in the many battles over insurance spawned by the destruction of the towers that anchored Manhattan's financial center.

The amount of insurance money the bistate agency will get is a critical issue, partly because construction costs keep climbing and several projects, including the memorial, have already been scaled back.

The PA recently finished the excavation work needed for Silverstein to begin work on two of the three skyscrapers he will build.

But several other hurdles to the vast rebuilding project remain, including completing demolition of the Deutsche Bank building, just south of where the World Trade Center stood.

Jones, in her ruling, also rejected the agency's claim she should not rule until Silverstein had fulfilled his obligation to rebuild the complex.

"Not only does the Port Authority fail to support this argument with citation to any case law, but this position is, in fact, contradicted by the controlling decisions on this issue," she wrote.

"We are gratified that the court agreed with our analysis," said Kenneth Erickson, a lawyer for the Lloyd's of London, which spearheaded the insurance companies' suit.

The Port Authority was fighting to recover an estimated $2 billion shortfall that Silverstein wasn't able to collect under his own insurance policies.

Silverstein entered a 99-year lease on much of the World Trade Center in July 2001 and is required to rebuild the complex.

His lease covered 1 WTC, 2WTC, 4 WTC and 5 WTC.

The PA has estimated losses on its portions of the site at approximately $3 billion.

With Post Wire Services



Tal;

To refresh your memory and to correct you, here is what you posted and what I was talking about in the Twin Towers Advocacy Continues thread.

You said that SILVERSTEIN HIMSELF is losing more insurance money, and he's not. It's the PA who won't get any.

So please, don't confuse the truth with fiction.

Daquan, they planned to give those other buildings to Silverstein anyway, so those are his business. However, he does intend to go for the higest claim, which will probably take at least another year to have, or will likely got tossed in the courtroom. Again, Silverstein is the majority leaseholder of the WTC site, not the owner, so don't get that confused just b/c he is now entitled to the insurance claims. On a sidenote, do not quote an entire article ever again, just the part(s) that explains your point.

So, Captain Obvious, I'm well aware that Silverstein is the leaseholder of Ground Zero. Do I sound like I don't know that to you? I've known it before 09-11.

Silverstein WITLL EVENTUALLY win that as well. Stop tripping up over yourself with stuff, and no one would have to do that to prove you wrong on stuff.

today the new temporary path station was opened, the one on vesey street!

Very Bad News, Very Good News

It seems like the cultural center building for the WTC, which isn’t going well, could be relocated on top of the Fulton Street Transit Center, which is a few blocks away from the WTC. The MTA was considering planning some sort of skyscraper to make a profit in the future. A new WTC tower could possibly take the currently proposed site of WTCPAC.

Very Bad News, Very Good News

It seems like the cultural center building for the WTC, which isn’t going well, could be relocated on top of the Fulton Street Transit Center, which is a few blocks away from the WTC. The MTA was considering planning some sort of skyscraper to make a profit in the future. A new WTC tower could possibly take the currently proposed site of WTCPAC.

Is that the building that was going to be next-door to WTC1? Just build another Freedom Tower. ;) Oh I'm going to get yelled at for saying that. :lol:

Very Bad News, Very Good News

It seems like the cultural center building for the WTC, which isn’t going well, could be relocated on top of the Fulton Street Transit Center, which is a few blocks away from the WTC. The MTA was considering planning some sort of skyscraper to make a profit in the future. A new WTC tower could possibly take the currently proposed site of WTCPAC.


hmmm i really liked the fulton street transit center, and i think another tower might be too much for ground zero

The Fulton St transit center was once gold, now it's crap. Can Frank Gehry really make it any worse? I bet it will look as good as before if something like this happens.

Let's not start w/ the build another FT crap. Even if they decide to build a new WTC tower, it's so close to the Freedom Tower that it would likely be under supertall height, and putting a twin in that spot would not make any sense at all since the two towers would only be a few meters apart.

If there really may be a new WTC Tower, I hope someone like Jean Nouvel, Foster, or Rogers or a good part of SOM designs it. We still have yet to see a redesigned, skinny WTC Tower 5. And I wonder who would develope the new WTC tower. The MTA, PA, Larry, all of them?

Is that the building that was going to be next-door to WTC1? Just build another Freedom Tower. ;) Oh I'm going to get yelled at for saying that. :lol:

its a secret shame of mine aswell :P

Don't build such a large memorial, make the site as dense as possible.

The Fulton St transit center was once gold, now it's crap. Can Frank Gehry really make it any worse? I bet it will look as good as before if something like this happens.

Let's not start w/ the build another FT crap. Even if they decide to build a new WTC tower, it's so close to the Freedom Tower that it would likely be under supertall height, and putting a twin in that spot would not make any sense at all since the two towers would only be a few meters apart.

Someone needs to lighten up.

Don't build such a large memorial, make the site as dense as possible.

Is that a joke? I can't tell because I wouldn't suggest something that stupid.

Don't build such a large memorial, make the site as dense as possible.

Well, the memorial, the less space they have to build a certain amount of sq feet on. Which means they have to be taller, so it would still have they same amount of density.

This could possibly change the scope of things. We'll have to wait and see what else happens.

Someone needs to lighten up.



Not me. I wasn't moaning about you when I said that people should not bring up the whole 2-FT idea again; it was intended for future posters. The plot would be slightly too small and I bet the placement would make a very tall building like that in the skyline look beyond horrible; anything over 1,000 feet tall will kill WTC Tower 2, so the shorter the better in this rare case. The Fulton Street hub was gold, one of the greatest pices of architecture in the world, but the idiots downsized it and now it's at most slightly better than any other station, save the WTC's. I really hope this plan gets done and that it can be saved. I think the MTA should try to go as high as possible if they decide to build a skyscraper there since it will be far enough away from the WTC.

Currently, there's over a dozen skyscrapers in lower Manhattan alone all well over 200m going up or about to go up simultaneously (with eight of them over 800 feet tall, likely more). It seems like the number will only get bigger. We really should be happy. Almost all cities will never best what's going on in merely lower Manhattan, save the rest of the city. I can say that in eight to eighteen years, Manhattan Island alone will have more skyscraper construction than any other place. I have no idea how we wil be able to pull it off again, but it will be one hell of a sight, soon in downtown, and then the west side and other places.

In less than a year, the WTC site will blow everyone away; what we see now is nothing since almost all of the work is taking place out of our view, save the erection of steel and concrete, which is hard to see the progress of because of our point of view, and there are other projects in the city that are and could be bigger than the WTC, which is the biggest skyscraper project in the US. Economic slowdown, Manhattan's ass. In fact, the entire nation is building more and taller skyscrapers than ever before; it's just that a lot of it isn't well known or mentioned here.

I plan on moving to lower Manhattan in five years; I only see a bright future for the area. To hell with midtown; I can see lower Manhattan as the new greatest financial capital within my lifetime.
By the way, I JUST noticed that there's a slowly growing hole for WTC Tower 2...

:)

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04012008/news/regionalnews/freedom_rattled_104483.htm
'FREEDOM' RATTLED

By TOM TOPOUSIS

April 1, 2008 -- The Freedom Tower is being put to the test.

A 40-foot-tall section of the tower's glass outer wall at a California testing lab is being pelted with rain, hammered with sustained winds of 74 mph, exposed to extreme heat and cold, and shaken by ground-shaking vibrations.

The mock-up of a corner section of three upper floors of the tower includes 24 glass panels like those that will one day make up the tower's outer skin - 1 million square feet of glass that will rise 1,368 feet when completed in 2011. An antenna will make the total height a symbolic 1,776 feet.

Technicians at Construction Consulting Laboratory West in Ontario, Calif., are putting the mock-up through two weeks of testing that covers 26 structural and meteorological conditions.

An enormous Curtiss-Wright airplane engine churns up the wind power aimed at the glass wall, which will face the whipping winds off New York Harbor when it is constructed at Ground Zero.

The Freedom Tower, designed by architect David Childs of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, will have a skin made of 4-inch-thick glass panels that will stretch panel to panel, with no structural elements between the 13-foot-tall panes of glass.

The testing will take about two weeks.

tom.touposis@nypost.com

I plan on moving to lower Manhattan in five years; I only see a bright future for the area. To hell with midtown; I can see lower Manhattan as the new greatest financial capital within my lifetime.
By the way, I JUST noticed that there's a slowly growing hole for WTC Tower 2...

:)

Glad we're on the same page. I prefer Lower Manhattan as well, and with any luck I'll be living there once I'm through with school.

It's interesting to hear that materials for the building are being subjected to extreme testing. But a question: is the design of this building (or any other in NY for that matter) engineered to withstand a moderate earthquake? The risk is small, but not out of the realm of possibilty for this area.

I'm sure that they took that into consideration and made the foundation for the tower more invulnerable against such a disaster.

Taken by Derek7272
Judging the location of the red crawler crane it's only a few days old.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3106/2384050716_e8e0f5638d_b.jpg

:cheers:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04012008/news/regionalnews/freedom_rattled_104483.htm
'FREEDOM' RATTLED

By TOM TOPOUSIS

April 1, 2008 -- The Freedom Tower is being put to the test.

1 million square feet of glass that will rise 1,368 feet when completed in 2011. An antenna will make the total height a symbolic 1,776 feet.
tom.touposis@nypost.com

Interesting explanation of the height of the building. This report is calling the Spire an antenna! If it truly is an antenna the building will not be 1776' tall it will only be 1368' tall. Another reason this design is far inferior to the original. :bash:

I always thought they should have put the roof at 1,776 and the tip of the antenna at 2,001 for both larger height and double symbolism.

Anyway, I still like the current design, sexy shape, and unlike the original WTC it doesn't look like it was built from Lego blocks.

It is an antenna and a spire. The antenna is in the spire.

I always thought they should have put the roof at 1,776 and the tip of the antenna at 2,001 for both larger height and double symbolism.

Anyway, I still like the current design, sexy shape, and unlike the original WTC it doesn't look like it was built from Lego blocks.

Yeah that actually would have been a good idea.

I always thought they should have put the roof at 1,776 and the tip of the antenna at 2,001 for both larger height and double symbolism.

Anyway, I still like the current design, sexy shape, and unlike the original WTC it doesn't look like it was built from Lego blocks.

Yes.....thats what I've always thought too. Those numbers would be much more appropriate and symbolic....1776 to symbolize the birth of the nation and 2001 to symbolize the year the towers were destroyed....but I'm just blabbing on because thats not whats going to be built. Hopefully we'll get a 'real' supertall in another part of Manhattan. I just hope theres a plague that wipes out all the NIMBY's first...that would sure help. :lol:

Yes.....thats what I've always thought too. Those numbers would be much more appropriate and symbolic....1776 to symbolize the birth of the nation and 2001 to symbolize the year the towers were destroyed....but I'm just blabbing on because thats not whats going to be built. Hopefully we'll get a 'real' supertall in another part of Manhattan. I just hope theres a plague that wipes out all the NIMBY's first...that would sure help. :lol:

A "real supertall?" Wow, you really are a fool. All this talk about how awful NIMBYs are is pretty annoying too. They're not evil. They have their own reasons for opposing supertall construction, not that I agree with all of them.
What I notice about a lot of people on this blog is building TALL is the only thought, with no concern for building a more livable city. Penis envy, I suppose.

A "real supertall?" Wow, you really are a fool. All this talk about how awful NIMBYs are is pretty annoying too. They're not evil. They have their own reasons for opposing supertall construction, not that I agree with all of them.
What I notice about a lot of people on this blog is building TALL is the only thought, with no concern for building a more livable city. Penis envy, I suppose.
Uhm, what do you think is the main appeal to foreign tourism of Manhattan? The nice 50m high buildings? I don't know how people in Brooklyn (where I suppose you are from) see it, but the in the rest of the world Manhattan always had the reputation of pretty much being "Skyscraper central". If you think they shouldn't try to maintain that reputation you must be seriously wanting to hurt your city's economy.

I for one think Manhattan should keep working on maintaining its reputation, and show Dubai what a REAL metropolis looks like. ;)

edit:opps

originally i was opposed to yet another tower squeezed in, but after seeing this render from SSP, i completely change my mind!


Maybe something like this...
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7636/hotel1pj4no9.jpg

Uhm, what do you think is the main appeal to foreign tourism of Manhattan? The nice 50m high buildings? I don't know how people in Brooklyn (where I suppose you are from) see it, but the in the rest of the world Manhattan always had the reputation of pretty much being "Skyscraper central". If you think they shouldn't try to maintain that reputation you must be seriously wanting to hurt your city's economy.

I for one think Manhattan should keep working on maintaining its reputation, and show Dubai what a REAL metropolis looks like. ;)

Welcome to SCC Droneriot :cheers:
Small thing. Don't ever say 'Dubai' in this topic. Somehow it works as gasoline on a fire. It's not hard to start a flamewar over here ;)

@philvia- That's an interesting rendering. I've heard a bit about the possiblity of adding anothr tower, is that about the size that they're thinking it might be?

@philvia- That's an interesting rendering. I've heard a bit about the possiblity of adding anothr tower, is that about the size that they're thinking it might be?

you are probably talking about 5WTC.
click the link for further info: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=489987

photo:
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6738/3034727sj7xb0.jpg

Welcome to SCC Droneriot :cheers:
Small thing. Don't ever say 'Dubai' in this topic. Somehow it works as gasoline on a fire. It's not hard to start a flamewar over here ;)
Thanks for the welcome. :)

As for flame wars... Well... I am quite a fan of skyscrapers simply for aesthetic reasons, but if some people want to make a personal issue out of it they kind of really, really, really need to get a life. I certainly wouldn't be upset by some geeks screaming "the skyscraper I like is better than the skyscraper you like!!", I sort of see myself being a bit above that, being adult and all, hehehe. ;)

you are probably talking about 5WTC.
click the link for further info: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=489987

No, their talking about moving the memorial, which leaves the area where it was going to go, open to another building.

^^oh okay. i get it now :D thanx

Does anyone kind of feel sorry for One Liberty Plaza? The poor thing was built with a perfect view towards the original WTC, and now it's going to be looking at the back of WTC 4. Same thing with 22 Cortland Street. Such is life, I guess. :p

Is that a joke? I can't tell because I wouldn't suggest something that stupid.

Why so harsh? After World War II, they didn't turn France, Germany and Russia into memorials, neither did they turn all of Central London into a memorial after the Bishopgate Bombings and the July 7th attacks.

Does anyone kind of feel sorry for One Liberty Plaza?No not the least bit. It replaced the beautiful Singer building so now it deserves what it gets.

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/GON3D.jpg

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/GON3A.jpg

Yeah that's true. I think it's an ugly building - even uglier than the Deutsche Bank building.

One Liberty Plaza is one of the greatest and largest boxy/simple skyscrapers ever built. It will fit in perfectly being a background tower under the shadow of the WTC. I think 130 Liberty looks worse than it, but maybe that's because 130 has not looked normal since the early morning of 9/11. But before you know it, the skyline will look better and more impressive than it did in July 2001.

Uhm, what do you think is the main appeal to foreign tourism of Manhattan? The nice 50m high buildings? I don't know how people in Brooklyn (where I suppose you are from) see it, but the in the rest of the world Manhattan always had the reputation of pretty much being "Skyscraper central". If you think they shouldn't try to maintain that reputation you must be seriously wanting to hurt your city's economy.

I for one think Manhattan should keep working on maintaining its reputation, and show Dubai what a REAL metropolis looks like. ;)

Thanks for getting my back bro. Some people get so upset about others opinions. Just give him some time to get his panty hose out of a bunch, he'll be alright. :)

A "real supertall?" Wow, you really are a fool. All this talk about how awful NIMBYs are is pretty annoying too. They're not evil. They have their own reasons for opposing supertall construction, not that I agree with all of them.
What I notice about a lot of people on this blog is building TALL is the only thought, with no concern for building a more livable city. Penis envy, I suppose.

Wow...I didnt realize that my opinion would warrant such a personal attack on my intelligence, as well as a mention of my genitalia....I almost feel honored. I must've really hit a soft spot with my post. Well...you've every right to disagree with me but when you make personal digs like that it really displays your character. Regarding the 'penis' comment...well....since you've taken an interest, maybe you'd like to put it in your mouth for a definitive measurement?

I was kind of bored today and found some small mistakes in Culwulla's section of the FT. So I made a more accurate version :)
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6049/freedomtowerkt9.gif
I know my paint skills don't weight up against Culwulla's skills :lol:
:cheers:

The tower is supposed to get a third Kangaroo tower crane eventually. I wonder if it will go on the outside of the building once the steel starts to rise above street level.

April 2 from flickr
the whole WTC site. freedom tower is on the far right side

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2123/2384040286_e0f381da2c_b.jpg

sure it was taken april 2? the path station in the picture was closed april 1

anyways, 4wtc's hole is getting deep quick!

today:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2184/2386976245_67687f51c6_o.jpg

sure it was taken april 2? the path station in the picture was closed april 1

anyways, 4wtc's hole is getting deep quick!

I hate being the one to correct other's mistakes but I Just Can't Help It <grin>

The path station is still open for another couple of weeks.

I believe you're referring to 2wtc, since 4wtc's hole was completed a couple of months ago. 4wtc is to the left and 2wtc is to the right in the picture.

My guess is that when the core reaches the height of those steel columns, that may be when we'll see some of the girders fastened between the core and the outer support columns.

It's - the bulk of the visible below grade steel work - starting now. If it's anything like the old towers, there will be a lot to see. We'll be able to see almost all the progress in a week or so, so don't worry about babies complaining about how they THINK it's slow. I've heard the media mention that the steel that's standing now will be connected to each other at the top with more steel, which most likely will officially bring the tower above grade. The steel is what will be going up first, not the core.

But the steel needs the core for interior load-bearing support, doesn't it?

Usually, as the core rises, so does the steel, I thought.

The steel is what will be going up first, not the core.

Core first, steel second. Just like 7 wtc.

Core first, steel second. Just like 7 wtc.

It seems you really need to do research. I just went through several pages of 7WTC construction and all of the construction pictures in WYN and could not find one picture with the concrete core rising above the steel.
By the way, 7WTC does have a concrete core; you could clearly see it before any steel at all was erected. I think that could prove that the first steel beam erected here was partly for show, but it doesn't matter now.
In doing so, I read about how it topped out ahead of schedule. I'm sure the others will be just as successful with their updated schedule.



For the Freedom Tower, there's a 99.9% chance that the steel will go up first, leaving the core slightly behind. As far as I know, no building in this city was built with concrete going up first.

I hate being the one to correct other's mistakes but I Just Can't Help It <grin>

The path station is still open for another couple of weeks.

I believe you're referring to 2wtc, since 4wtc's hole was completed a couple of months ago. 4wtc is to the left and 2wtc is to the right in the picture.

ah yes i just read the old temporary on church st will be open still for 2 more weeks

and yes i meant 2wtc :nuts:

In fact, to add to the Freedom Tower core debate, I think it just may be NYC law that the steel of a skyscraper always must rise first. Does anyone know if it's true or not, or is it just a tradition, or perhaps an outdated law that is still followed?

One Liberty Plaza is one of the greatest and largest boxy/simple skyscrapers ever built. It will fit in perfectly being a background tower under the shadow of the WTC. I think 130 Liberty looks worse than it, but maybe that's because 130 has not looked normal since the early morning of 9/11. But before you know it, the skyline will look better and more impressive than it did in July 2001.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I love boxy skyscrapers but the black on 1 Liberty Plaza doesn't do it for me. I saw some construction photos and I thought it looked great in silver/aluminum like the WTC.

Thought so.

Not Sure if this question was answered before: In regards to the height of this tower, because the building will be topped out by a 408ft antenna, will the CTBUH measure the Freedom Tower to its roof or to its structural height? speaking of which, does the antenna count as part of the freedom towers structure, or like the Sears Tower, will it NOT be included in the official height?
:cheers:

Not Sure if this question was answered before: In regards to the height of this tower, because the building will be topped out by a 408ft antenna, will the WCTB measure the Freedom Tower to its roof or to its structural height? speaking of which, does the antenna count as part of the freedom towers structure, or like the Sears Tower, will it NOT be included in the official height?
:cheers:

I've asked the same question several times and no one has answered. It seems like people don't want to admit that Freedom Tower will not truly be 1776' tall. I agree with your view of the matter, the original design with the integral spire was 1776' but this one with the antenna stuck on top IS'NT'

I've asked the same question several times and no one has answered. It seems like people don't want to admit that Freedom Tower will not truly be 1776' tall. I agree with your view of the matter, the original design with the integral spire was 1776' but this one with the antenna stuck on top IS'NT'


It's a pet peeve of mine too. Many of these 1600ft + buildings simply aren't that tall IMO. But in the view of those who matter, if an antenna looks and smells like a spire it counts. Go figure.


I don't think this building is anywhere near 1776 ft but my opinion doesn't matter. They stick a hypodermic needle on top of a 1300 footer, make the needle have some architectural features and boom, there you go, 1776 feet. It's a joke, but it is the way it is. The folks who are the powers that be have decided those feet count so I guess they do.

I'm just pleased that some of these monsters that are being built around the world will actually be functional all the way up, like Chicago Spire to name one and Shanghai WFC to name another.

Strategy for Seven World Trade Center Exceeds Expectations

September 12, 2005

At the dawn of a marketing blitz for tenants to join him in the first office tower to rise from Ground Zero, Seven World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein is all gab about the souped-up-for-more-safety features of the 52-story replacement for the tower that collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001, after sustaining collateral damage from attacks on the WTC’s twin towers. But to the builders of the new 1.7-million-sq-ft high-rise, the job stands out for a completely different reason. By building the tower’s steel frame ahead of its structural concrete core, the team managed to beat its own predictions for a reduced schedule by a month. By demanding cooperation among trades, the approach breaks the norm for construction in New York City in an "extraordinarily" positive way, say sources. And, that is no mean accomplishment.

Steel ahead of concrete turned out to be so successful that, after much initial resistance, Silverstein Properties Inc. gave the green light to use the same approach on its planned 1,776-ft-tall Freedom Tower across Vesey Street. "The construction method for 7 is exactly what we’ll be using on the Freedom Tower," says Carl Galioto, technical partner in the New York City office of the architect for both 7 and the Freedom Tower, Skidmore, Owings & Merrill.


During planning for 7, the construction manager predicted the strategy would shorten the schedule by three to four months. "There was a lot of skepticism within our ranks about the steel-first method and the client was not sure it was the best way to go," says Elio Cettina, supervisor of general superintendents for Tishman Construction Corp. of New York. The CM also is building the Freedom Tower.

The proof is in the pudding, says Cettina. "We were able to maintain four-day-per-floor cycles for all operations" and beat the clock by a month beyond the prediction, he says.
Steel topped out last October instead of in November. Substantial completion is targeted for early November. Silverstein plans to move into its space in March.

The steel-first approach requires meticulous planning and added doses of coordination and communication among the major contractors. It also requires buy-in by the trades, especially ironworkers. "It really took a big team effort," which is a switch from the usual adversarial atmosphere, says Dominick D’Antonio, chief engineer for the steel contractor, Helmark Steel Inc., Wilmington, Del.

The structural engineer still thinks concrete first is the better way to go. There is no need for erection columns and other temporary steel to stabilize the frame laterally until the core, which provides the structure’s permanent lateral stability, catches up, says Silvian Marcus, CEO for WSP Cantor Seinuk, which engineered the original 7 and also is designing the Freedom Tower. With concrete first, there also is no need for extra temporary protection.

The methodology’s advantages far outweigh any disadvantages, claims Mel Ruffini, Tishman’s project executive. Steel first allows the concrete to be cast inside a protective frame. It is considered safer, and thus acceptable to New York City ironworkers, who will not allow other work overhead. Steel first also allows the curtain wall to start sooner. And it is a more sustainable approach because the self-climbing forms used for the concrete core are reusable, says Tishman.

The concrete contractor credits the self-climbers for much of the success of the method. It would have taken almost twice as long to complete a floor with a hand-set system, says William Kell, chief estimator-project manager for the concrete contractor, Sorbara Construction Corp., Lynbrook, N.Y. That would have had concrete work lagging too far behind steel work. Tishman says the self-climbers have not been used in New York City for an office building.
The steel-first approach in New York City is not new. The engineer had used it first in the late 1960s on two office towers and recently on two more. But none of the buildings used self-climbers. On 7, "they literally had to design the building around the forming system," says Kell.

Power Pedestal

The glass-clad office tower, 213 x 171 ft in plan, sits on a utility power substation, framed in concrete–also a replacement. Only the tower core and lobby "corridor" penetrate the substation. Tower mechanical floors begin 78 ft above grade. The first office floor is 125 ft above grade.

The new substation and tower jobs, designed and managed by the same firms, share foundations. Tower core walls take loads to caissons 15 to 20 ft below the water table. The engineer was able to reuse 30% of the original 7’s caissons.

Work on the office tower could not proceed until the substation was topped out in October 2003. Work was complicated and delayed by obstructions encountered during foundation work.

In essence, workers initially built two independent structures. The first was a parallelepiped-shaped steel frame, like a warped doughnut. The second was a rectilinear core, 108 ft on side, which filled the doughnut hole.


Sequence. All operations, starting with steel erection, followed a four-day-per-floor cycle at 7 WTC. Sequence required meticulous planning.
Steel erection for 7 had to follow the substation frame. Helmark and Falcon Steel Co., its Forth Worth, Texas-based erector, had never done a steel-first, hybrid-system building. Despite a learning curve, the system "proved out," says D’Antonio.

The doughnut’s lack of lateral stability was compounded by forces imposed by two tower cranes and other construction equipment. To counter this, Helmark temporarily braced 12 bays. Bracing overlapped the concrete operation by four floors to facilitate the transfer of lateral loads into the permanent system, says D’Antonio. There also was a temporary floor system of steel joists and deck panels to cover the core void, and safety nets to protect workers.

Temporary steel was erected along with the permanent frame. The operation was conventional except for moving the void cover and netting; jumping 14-story steel stair towers, also temporary; and removing and relocating temporary bracing as the steel went up.

There were as many as 16 to 18 floors of temporary bracing. "We erected, unerected and re-erected temporary steel three times," says D’Antonio.

D’Antonio does not know whether there was a time penalty for erecting and moving the 1,000 tons of temporary steel within the 12,000-ton frame.

There could be no fewer than eight and no more than 12 floors from the steel work floor to the top-most poured and cured core section. "We had to stay on a very tight schedule with the concrete contractor," says D’Antonio. "We could not go too fast or too slowly."

After the substation was topped out, ironworkers mobilized cranes and erected embedded steel columns around the core void. Then, the steel operation demobilized for about a month so that Sorbara could mobilize the self-climbers. It was the only interruption in the flow.

Four-Day Floors

After the formwork was in, the four-day-per-floor cycle began with steel erection. Metal deck followed, with its concrete topping. Workers then cast core shear walls and slabs. Next came the steel’s sprayed-on fireproofing. The remaining trades followed. This included curtain-wall work, mechanical, electrical and plumbing work, elevators and interior work.

The shear-wall operation began its first cycle after the steel frame was eight floors up and concrete had been placed on the metal deck a few floors overhead. First, the inside face of the form was fixed off the climbing work platform. Workers installed bulkheads off of the inside form and frame reinforcing steel. The form’s outside face was raised with chain falls and the forms were closed. Then, concrete was cast. Workers stripped forms the next day. The self-climber platform was jacked and inside forms reset. Once the trailing platforms hanging from the self-climbers were a few floors above, floor slabs were conventionally constructed.

The construction of the original 7 was described as a logistical nightmare by its designers and builders (ENR 11/28/85 p. 30). The 9/11 terrorist attacks ended up causing another nightmare. But according to the new team, which includes the same structural engineer and CM, the design and construction of the new 7 was made simpler because of the opportunity to integrate the substation design and construction with the tower above it. Both jobs were equally difficult because major utilities in all surrounding streets ripped open because of post-9/11 work.

Work also was complicated by neighboring projects to restore buildings damaged on 9/11, and nearby road work. To handle the congestion, access problems and staging limitations, Tishman had weekly coordination meetings with the power utility, the phone company, city and state transportation departments and the city’s transit authority. "Everyone worked in a checkerboard fashion, leapfrogging around each other," says Ruffini.

Larry Silverstein boasts that 7 will be the safest commercial office building in the U.S., until the Freedom Tower is built. "Miraculously, the structure of 7 and the life-safety enhancements parallel the recommendations" made in June by the National Institute of Standards and Technology in its $16-million report on the World Trade Center, says Silverstein. "We anticipated this by about three years," he says.

Going Further

Core in Core. Emergency access core within Freedom Tower’s main core will provide dedicated and protected elevators for firefighters, and more. Image Courtesy of Skidore Owings and Merrill LLP Each subsequent building in the WTC redevelopment will be designed using the same principles, Silverstein says. Plans for the Freedom Tower go further. It will have a concrete-enclosed emergency access core within the concrete core.
The EAC is designed to contain five service elevators, protected so that equipment will be able to resist water. The service lobby would be pressurized to mitigate smoke intrusion, either on the floor or in hoistways. The elevators and pressurized stairs would be dedicated for use by emergency responders. If an incident is on the 50th floor, firefighters will take the elevator to 48 and walk up, says Galioto. Elevators also would be used to evacuate those with disabilities. The EAC would contain the electrical and com-munications closets for emergency services.

The Freedom Tower project lost about eight months when the city police came up with new security rules for standoff distances after New York Gov. George E. Pataki decided West Street alongside the WTC site would remain a surface street. That meant going back to the drawing board. A new design concept was released in June (ENR 7/11 p. 10).

SOM plans to complete schematic design by year-end. Foundation packages should be issued before that so construction can commence in the first quarter of next year, says Galioto. That should "maintain the governor's...schedule" for occupancy of the building in the spring of 2010, he says.

Silverstein calls the need to redesign a "frustrating" experience. He says his biggest regret in the last year was the "lack of coordination relative to the New York Police Dept. and security issues on the site. We lost time and encountered a good deal of additional cost," he says. Silverstein has not yet tallied the toll, but probably will seek reimbursement from the city or state.

For Tishman, it was not a total loss. Some of the planning and all of the relationships developed, especially with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the land and runs the PATH subway that runs under the site. But the team had to throw out lots of work.

Silverstein and SOM think the new design beats the first. "It responds to an even greater variety of issues," says Galioto. "We’re eager to proceed."

Nadine M. Post , Engineering News-Record

So if they were able to build one floor in four days for 7, then we should expect about one floor in about six days for the Freedom Tower. 7WTC is like a protype for 1, but 1WTC is even bigger with a stronger and larger core, and I suspect it will take a tad longer since every floor is totally different from one above and below it.

It's a pet peeve of mine too. Many of these 1600ft + buildings simply aren't that tall IMO. But in the view of those who matter, if an antenna looks and smells like a spire it counts. Go figure.


I don't think this building is anywhere near 1776 ft but my opinion doesn't matter. They stick a hypodermic needle on top of a 1300 footer, make the needle have some architectural features and boom, there you go, 1776 feet. It's a joke, but it is the way it is. The folks who are the powers that be have decided those feet count so I guess they do.

I'm just pleased that some of these monsters that are being built around the world will actually be functional all the way up, like Chicago Spire to name one and Shanghai WFC to name another.

I've asked the same question several times and no one has answered. It seems like people don't want to admit that Freedom Tower will not truly be 1776' tall. I agree with your view of the matter, the original design with the integral spire was 1776' but this one with the antenna stuck on top IS'NT'

Alright Guys, I think we can settle this doubt over the true height of the Freedom Tower. I did some digging and found this info on wiki about the four categories which the CTBUH measures the height of buildings.

(From Wikipedia)
Pinnacle Height/Spire Height: the height from the sidewalk level of the building to the architectural top of the tower. This vague definition can lead to confusion, but basically any structure beyond occupiable floors that is architecturally significant in its design and structurally integrated into its height is considered a spire. A spire and an antenna can sometimes coincide, as in the new design for Freedom Tower, but generally they do not.

Feel free to comment :cheers:

Alright Guys, I think we can settle this doubt over the true height of the Freedom Tower. I did some digging and found this info on wiki about the four categories which the CTBUH measures the height of buildings.

(From Wikipedia)
Pinnacle Height/Spire Height: the height from the sidewalk level of the building to the architectural top of the tower. This vague definition can lead to confusion, but basically any structure beyond occupiable floors that is architecturally significant in its design and structurally integrated into its height is considered a spire. A spire and an antenna can sometimes coincide, as in the new design for Freedom Tower, but generally they do not.

Feel free to comment :cheers:
I've read that description before, all it seems to do is add confusion. Who makes a decision if it is architecturally significant to the building? IMHO what is on top of Freedom Tower is just an antenna. The only thing architecturally significant about it is that it makes the building 1776' tall. The spire in the original designed was an integral part of the architecture, this one isn't.

I've read that description before, all it seems to do is add confusion. Who makes a decision if it is architecturally significant to the building? IMHO what is on top of Freedom Tower is just an antenna. The only thing architecturally significant about it is that it makes the building 1776' tall. The spire in the original designed was an integral part of the architecture, this one isn't.

For you it isn't, for me it is. So who is right? :ohno:

I've read that description before, all it seems to do is add confusion. Who makes a decision if it is architecturally significant to the building? IMHO what is on top of Freedom Tower is just an antenna. The only thing architecturally significant about it is that it makes the building 1776' tall. The spire in the original designed was an integral part of the architecture, this one isn't.

I don't think the question is whether it is architectually significant or not. This is the CTBUH way of making their definition of what counts sound really thought out but it isn't. The real question is what is an antenna? Whatever isn't an antenna is a spire.

In this case, the 'spire' is being built with the option of housing an antenna inside of it. So I suppose this isn't truely an antenna, but some of you will still argue it is.

Regardless it is still a tall building. I don't see why all of you are getting your panties in a bunch because of 300 feet and the fact that even if it didn't have a spire/antenna one would sitll be added on to the top of the building.

all fom flickr by totempolar.
thanks to him/her for uploading


Prospective WTC Development Plans
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2219/2390553946_a7b0b9f05f_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/2389715875_6aefeae0bc_b.jpg


WTC1 Ground Zero
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2364/2389722413_a1fb1b0b69_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3011/2390552674_517e562a73_b.jpg

the last two pics give a good overview how far the progress is on the tower, many thx for posting them :)

No one has ever found the reason behind that skinny column yet.

No one has ever found the reason behind that skinny column yet.

From what I have read, the skinny column provides additional support for the main entrance of the tower. The top of the column will be just below your feet when you walk into the building...

The pictures show that there are forms everywhere and that there is alot of floor work going on but it does appear that they are doing little work on finishing the next level of the core. You would think that the core needs to rise soon if they're going to reach street level by early summer.

That construction site looks complex

From what I have read, the skinny column provides additional support for the main entrance of the tower. The top of the column will be just below your feet when you walk into the building...

The pictures show that there are forms everywhere and that there is alot of floor work going on but it does appear that they are doing little work on finishing the next level of the core. You would think that the core needs to rise soon if they're going to reach street level by early summer.



The southern half of the core IS rising faster. Hopefully, by early to mid June, both halves should be at street level.

Getting back on topic, an article appears in today's edition of the Daily News.

It says that security at the Freedom Tower and the rest of Ground Zero will be so tight that it'll be like trying to enter Fort Appachi or a bank vault!

For the full story, please go to; http://www.NYDailyNews.com .

Man. The NYPD can go screw off for even DRAFTING a plan like that. That would just destroy commerce in Lower Manhattan.

In fact, to add to the Freedom Tower core debate, I think it just may be NYC law that the steel of a skyscraper always must rise first. Does anyone know if it's true or not, or is it just a tradition, or perhaps an outdated law that is still followed?

not sure where you got that idea. walk by the site of 11 times square (42nd and 8th) for a counterexample.

I think hes talking about this unspoken of agreement between steel and concrete companies in construction in New York. But like you stated 11 TS is going core first for the first few floors and so will 1 WTC.

But how can that be true if the steel is already ahead of the concrete and it's fact that the steel will go up first?

^^ Well it maybe fact according to you, but you have yet to show where it says steel will be first and the only reason that steel is ahead right now is because of the nature of the construction of the lower floors. I imagine the amount of rebar that is being put in to the northern core in order to rise another level is insane because of the PATH tracks. Once it gets over that hump the core will rise much faster than the steel.

"Steel ahead of concrete turned out to be so successful that, after much initial resistance, Silverstein Properties Inc. gave the green light to use the same approach on its planned 1,776-ft-tall Freedom Tower across Vesey Street. "The construction method for 7 is exactly what we’ll be using on the Freedom Tower," says Carl Galioto, technical partner in the New York City office of the architect for both 7 and the Freedom Tower, Skidmore, Owings & Merrill."


Perhaps one of the few exceptions is 11TS, but I don't think so since 7WTC once looked like 11TS, with nothing but a core, but as it got taller, and as the steel was erected, it, the steel, was always ahead of the concrete core, except for when there was no steel, obviously.

I think there is only one tall skyscraper in NYC made of nothing but concrete, save stuff like the rebarb, and I think it's the Carnegie Hall Tower.

http://www.dis.uniroma1.it/~demetres/photos/Jan-13-2001/images/CarnegieHallTower2.JPG

But I'm quite happy that steel is used in almost every skyscraper here. Paired with the reinforced concrete core in the right way, you can make great and nearly invincible buildings. Exposed steel will almost always look better than exposed concrete, like, for example, the visible beams on the FT's base, the structure of 3WTC, Silvercup West, MoMA Spire, SWFC, ect, steel is the best.

OK I choose the freedom tower as my first post. I'm in luv with this tower. I've been reading these thread for a long time now. I'm sure someone here will tell me how not to talk about Dubi or how slow this project is going. And all I have to say about all that noise is. I was born in New York (Brooklyn stand-up). And Dubi is a great city but I'm not in luv with it. And the project is moving just fine for me. The bed-rock on the island is pretty damn tough and lets not forget what happen on this land.

Now I'm not sure what it take to build these amazing building and by that I mean all supertalls. But I'm willing to sit and learn. Now I'm sure that sounds pretty damn crazy but it's early And I haven't been to sleep so my brain really isn't working right. Thanks SCC

xxxx

*multiple posts deleted and multiple accounts suspended*

*multiple posts deleted and multiple accounts suspended*
:hug:
Thank you!

Thank You .

Lance