IT'S a COMPLEX! AND SILVER IS DEVELOPING THE BUILDING WITH PORT!(He doesn't own the tower), So don't tell me, if there is a problem with one the developers, it doesn't involve the others!

IF SILVER HAS FINANCIAL problems and is slowing down the process even further PORT is then thinking about taking more control of the development of the complex.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

I totally agree with you on that. I dont really understand why 1WTC would be slowed down by financial problems on towers 2-3-4...

So, as it doesnt concern the Freedom Tower, I suggest this argument stops here

The design for towers 2,3 and 4 came out after the FT groundbreaking started. This buildings been funded since 2004. These aren't like some of the other projects around the city. Wasn't the first world trade center funded by the government, then why shouldn't this one be.

Theres no shame in sliverstein needing help. Lets give him the 100 billion that was giving to AIG. He can building this and the hudson yard.

sorry to derail this lovely discussion but i find it hilarious that every person on this page has the original WTC as there avatar. :lol:

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Of cause not, I'm just swimming in the sea of wrong, and you are just floating by in your boat of right.

I'd like the old twins rebuilt.

well this is why i made that early comment. watch this, it explains. although i dont get this black dudes hair. http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=54664711
Lol he's an architect. He can have any haircut he want. :lol:

I really don't get this arguement, I;'m dizzy and this project will surely go forward and get done.

Of cause not, I'm just swimming in the sea of wrong, and you are just floating by in your boat of right.

pretty much

everything you've said in this thread has been the direct opposite of correct

Theres no shame in sliverstein needing help. Lets give him the 100 billion that was giving to AIG. He can building this and the hudson yard.

Lets not give $100B more to the city that sponsored the current financial panic and sold many of the credit default swaps AIG bought. Besides, what unemployed people do you think are going to fill the office space in NY?

Lets not give $100B more to the city that sponsored the current financial panic and sold many of the credit default swaps AIG bought. Besides, what unemployed people do you think are going to fill the office space in NY?

Yeah it's called a joke and I didn't say give it to wall street did I. And NYC the life blood of the country don't give us the money and see what happens lol. And I don't know to many people in NYC who don't have jobs. And if they're unemployed they've just been fired from one of the big banks or they never work to began with.

The price of living has go up but the unemployment rate is about the same.
I don't know what makes people think we got a bunch of homeless, jobless
people running around the city. A bunch of rich fat cats go broke and everybody goes crazy.

Speaking of money... This is from the Port Authority contracts link that Zensteeldude posted back here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=34125436&postcount=7969). Just one example of where the money goes...

Contracting activity : Fountain plumbing : 4J's Associates LLC : $41,425,000 : contract executed 29 Jan 2009

This is not the cost of the fountain(s), this is the just the plumbing contract. Nothing comes cheap on projects of this scale.

Not a very good tower I'm afraid.

Such a shame :(

PORT AUTHORITY AND VANTONE INDUSTRIAL SIGN FIRST LEASE FOR ONE WORLD TRADE CENTER (THE FREEDOM TOWER)
The China Center Will Occupy Nearly 200,000 Square Feet in New York’s Tallest Skyscraper to Encourage and Facilitate Business Between Two Global Finanical Centers

March 26, 2009

Representatives of The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and Vantone Industrial Co., Ltd., today signed a lease that will create the China Center, a unique 190,810-square-foot business and cultural facility, to be located on portions of the 64th floor and the entire 65th through 69th floors of One World Trade Center (the Freedom Tower).

Immediately following the lease signing, China Center provided the Port Authority with a $10 million letter of credit.

The lease is for 20 years and nine months, commencing when the building is completed in late 2013. Rents will start at $80 per square foot and escalate in subsequent years. China Center also will have the right to lease up to two additional contiguous floors under the same lease terms, an option that expires at the end of 2009.

...The Port Authority also has commitments for more than a million square feet of leased office space in One World Trade Center from the U.S. General Services Administration and the New York State Office of General Services. Leases for these two public agencies are being finalized. These commitments, coupled with the China Center lease, represent nearly 50 percent of the total office space in the building.

...Key components of the China Center will include an Executive Business Club offering membership opportunities and extensive benefits; a conference center providing flexible, high-tech exhibition and conference facilities for corporate meetings and events; and first-class office space offering a variety of flexible layouts and options designed to enhance business operations and networking opportunities for a variety of small to mid-sized Chinese businesses.

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/110645199/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/110645226/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/110645274/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/110645285/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/110645306/original.jpg

http://panynj.com/AboutthePortAuthority/PressCenter/PressReleases/PressRelease/index.php?id=1216

Before anyone asks or comments, the cost of fitting out is paid by the tenant. In plain language, all those pretty renderings of the beautiful office space is NOT part of the cost of the building, if Vantone Industrial Co., Ltd wants it that way, they gota cough up the dough.

I swear one of those renderings is actually a retouched pic taken inside #7.

Nice interior. I hope this tower will be occupied soon. :)

Yeah...Really nice interior...It would be nice to work there...

Very glad they changed the name. Freedom Tower is a ridiculous name.

Not a very good tower I'm afraid.

Such a shame :(

what's your problem with it?

Very glad they changed the name. Freedom Tower is a ridiculous name.

they didn't

Officially, the name Freedom Tower never existed, but it isn't going anywhere because it's already stuck to 1WTC.

Freedom Tower name changed to One World Trade Center

The Freedom Tower is out. One World Trade Center is in.

The Port Authority, the agency that owns the building at Ground Zero, said Thursday that the signature skyscraper replacing the Twin Towers destroyed on Sept. 11, 2001, will be more commonly known as One World Trade Center.

The reason for the name swapping? One World Trade Center is more marketable, said Steve Sigmund, a spokesman for the Port Authority.

"We believe there's been a good response in the marketplace toward it," Sigmund said Thursday.

The 102-story building, under construction at the 16-acre site, was named the Freedom Tower in the first Ground Zero master plan. At the time, officials said the tallest, most symbolic of five planned towers at the site would demonstrate the nation's triumph over terrorism.

In the end, the tower's address, One World Trade Center, is the one that is easier for people to identify with, said Anthony Coscia, Port Authority chairman.

On Wednesday, the agency announced that the first commercial tenant, a Chinese real estate company, has signed a lease for space in the building. The Beijing Vantone Industrial Company has agreed to lease five floors - 64 through 69 - for nearly 21 years.

The office tower is scheduled to be completed in late 2013.

Friday, the Tribute WTC Visitor Center is planning to reach a milestone by welcoming its 1-millionth visitor.

The person who helps the center reach that mark will be presented with a plaque honoring all those who have come there to learn about the 2001 terror attacks against the World Trade Center, said Ben Urizar, a center spokesman.

The tribute center at 120 Liberty St., which opened in 2006, is expected to hit the milestone before 10 a.m., when a news conference is planned.

http://www.newsday.com/services/newspaper/printedition/friday/news/ny-nyfree2712590972mar27,0,6084299.story

Mods should change title to "1 World Trade Center"

what's your problem with it?

well, the previous ones were embarrassments to iconic architecture in their design...sad to say, this is just a travesty of the previous.

^^^ What?

Very glad they changed the name. Freedom Tower is a ridiculous name.

Im thinking most people still refer to it as the freedom tower, its synonymous with it now like Ebola said.

has agreed to lease five floors - 64 through 69

Uh, isn't that 6 floors?

I'm glad they changed the name. Very glad. Now can someone tell me where I can buy some of those delicious American Fries?

I'm glad they changed the name. Very glad. Now can someone tell me where I can buy some of those delicious American Fries?

dont you mean Freedom Fries?

They are pouring today. Hard to tell where but it seems to be over the PATH decking.

Excellent news. Today, March 27th, they are pouring the B2 floor slab over the PATH tunnels! This is completely unexpected. I know they've been laying rebar over the past week or so, but I'd long excepted them to pour the slab over the summer when the PATH service would be shut down. It isn't even April yet. But just look at the earthcam webcam for yourself, the concrete is being poured now!

One of the main obstacles holding up the construction should now be in the past.

Im thinking most people still refer to it as the freedom tower, its synonymous with it now like Ebola said.



It should only have been a nickname and nothing more. 1 World Trade Center sounds a lot better.

WTF???

1 world trade centre? that is so weird. Freedom tower had perfect purpose for its name and 1WTC had purpose not to be the name of freedom tower... I'm so confused.

WTF???

1 world trade centre? that is so weird. Freedom tower had perfect purpose for its name and 1WTC had purpose not to be the name of freedom tower... I'm so confused.

I dont know man, 1WTC gets right down to the point. Freedom tower is what second grade teachers will call it, not skyscraper aficionados (I hope)

it will sound weird at first since we called it the freedom tower for the last 6 years, but it makes sense to call it one world trade center it pays homage to the past history. the name freedom tower sounds like the government bought the naming rights to the tower to cover up the mess it made in handling the aftermath.
as my economic teacher told me keep it simple and straight forward.

The Freedom Tower moniker was sooooo nauseatingly pretentious. Ugh. I'm glad the decision was finally made to do away with it.

WTF???

1 world trade centre? that is so weird. Freedom tower had perfect purpose for its name and 1WTC had purpose not to be the name of freedom tower... I'm so confused.

There are going to be seven buildings in the new complex. Only one would have the name "Freedom Tower", so what are you going to call the others? You can't just keep coming up with new names for each tower, it would be confusing anyway. So the other towers have to be called Two World Trade Center, Three World Trade Center... all the way to Seven World Trade Center (which is already built and already called that anyway).

The tower in question will officially be called One World Trade Center, but will have the nickname Freedom Tower, just as the original towers were One and Two World Trade Center but had the nickname Twin Towers.

I'll still call it the freedom tower so don't correct me when I call it by that name. I've been say freedom tower for years so no need to call it anything else at this point.

Excellent news. Today, March 27th, they are pouring the B2 floor slab over the PATH tunnels! This is completely unexpected. I know they've been laying rebar over the past week or so, but I'd long excepted them to pour the slab over the summer when the PATH service would be shut down. It isn't even April yet. But just look at the earthcam webcam for yourself, the concrete is being poured now!

One of the main obstacles holding up the construction should now be in the past.

I would not rejoice just yet. They only poured until the core section where the crane is affixed to. There still is more PATH roof pouring that is necessary (along with pouring the western half of the northern core so those forms can rise).

Uh, isn't that 6 floors?

From: 'Freedom Tower' Gets First Tenant As Name Preference Changes

"Beijing Vantone is expected to take up floors 65 through 69 and parts of 64 in the 102-story tower."

Source: 1010Wins: http://www.1010wins.com/-Freedom-Tower--Gets-1st-Tenant-as-Name-Changes/4091995
(http://www.1010wins.com/-Freedom-Tower--Gets-1st-Tenant-as-Name-Changes/4091995)

I'm sure noone will notice or mind PA dumping the name the same time they sign the Chinese up as a major tenant.

WTF???

1 world trade centre? that is so weird. Freedom tower had perfect purpose for its name and 1WTC had purpose not to be the name of freedom tower... I'm so confused.
Yeah i agree, most people would call it Freedom Tower. And it is more easier to remember, especially for those who dont live in NYC and dont even know towers 2, 3, 5 etc.

"Freedom Tower" is so fucking jingoistic. One World Trade is elegant.

I'm sorry, but it's not only 1WTC, but still also the Freedom Tower to just about everyone except those who are stuck in their own little ignorant world; it needs that affectionate nickname too, and FT was what it was from day one, so clearly it will stick with the official name. Too bad words like freedom are so evil and only idiots use them. If people don't like it, don't use it. Were 1WTC and 2WTC even named the twin towes by the PA? No, but people used it. I'm pretty sure that each of the towers will gain their own nickname depeding on who leases them or whatever.

I would not rejoice just yet. They only poured until the core section where the crane is affixed to. There still is more PATH roof pouring that is necessary (along with pouring the western half of the northern core so those forms can rise).

The B3 slab is the "PATH roof" (not really fitting because the slab poured in the late 60s is still in place as the "roof"). The B3 slab at over 2 feet thick is the "protection" slab so work above it can take place at any time. The irony is the B3 slab is really there to protect the tower from bombs etc. planted on a PATH train, not to protect the PATH.



PS: NONE of the prints or other documents have the word Freedom. They all say Tower One at the WTC, or WTC Tower One. Let the "Freedom Tower" name go the way of "Freedom Fries"

I prefer 'One World Trade Center'

Sounds a lot more professional and is a reminder of the Original WTC.

Calling it 'Freedom Tower' is ridiculous as America and the West has not won its battle against Islamist people who wish to see democracy in the west destroyed.

^^ the tower was not supposed to symbolize that by any means. Its a symbol of overcoming a great tragedy in American history.

-- Freedom Tower
-- 1776'

Old buildings were 1 WTC, 2 WTC etc.
New ones should also be 1 WTC, 2 WTC, etc.

Freedom & 1776' are typical overdone Americanism.
Something that sounds like it came from Hollywood.
Even a fake spire to cover the antennas.
The world is tired of overdone and annoying American patriotism.
Red white and blue? There are more colours, you know.

Although very tragic, The whole 911 has been overdone to death.
Cost and time overruns, lack of public input (lip service only),
political corruption. Every politician trying to get his or her name
connected to this project. Delay after delay after delay...
Costing more and more tax dollars.

Just try and state the obvious,
This project should have been halfway completed by now,
you will get flamed by over-zealous Americans.
They can have an opinion, but if yours is different,
then you are wrong... Free speech, ya right.

The 1 WTC is OK for a skyscraper, but not great.
They should have made 2 WTC as a twin, (minus spire),
just like the original WTC.
Different architects for the 5 buildings? That was dumb.
No real flow of design for all 5 buildings.
Number 4 should have been increased to over 1,000'.
4 supertalls, that would have been impressive.

I think the biggest mistake they have made is the indoor
museum will be charging admission. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Seems the "people" in charge, have missed the meaning
and importance that this site means to not only the
American people, but to the western world as well.

BILLIONS of dollars to build a transportation hub????
I think alot of people are padding their pockets at the
expense of the tax payers...

I could go on and on...
but remember, mature adults will listen to other opinions
and will respond without personal attacks.
I have followed this thread for years now, and I can't
believe the childish posts I have read.

These are just my opinions, and I'm sticking to them...

dont you mean Freedom Fries?

You're right, such a silly name.

... it needs that affectionate nickname too, and FT....:colgate::lol: FT.

-- Freedom Tower
-- 1776'

Old buildings were 1 WTC, 2 WTC etc.
New ones should also be 1 WTC, 2 WTC, etc.

Freedom & 1776' are typical overdone Americanism.
Something that sounds like it came from Hollywood.
Even a fake spire to cover the antennas.
The world is tired of overdone and annoying American patriotism.
Red white and blue? There are more colours, you know.

Although very tragic, The whole 911 has been overdone to death.
Cost and time overruns, lack of public input (lip service only),
political corruption. Every politician trying to get his or her name
connected to this project. Delay after delay after delay...
Costing more and more tax dollars.

Just try and state the obvious,
This project should have been halfway completed by now,
you will get flamed by over-zealous Americans.
They can have an opinion, but if yours is different,
then you are wrong... Free speech, ya right.

The 1 WTC is OK for a skyscraper, but not great.
They should have made 2 WTC as a twin, (minus spire),
just like the original WTC.
Different architects for the 5 buildings? That was dumb.
No real flow of design for all 5 buildings.
Number 4 should have been increased to over 1,000'.
4 supertalls, that would have been impressive.

I think the biggest mistake they have made is the indoor
museum will be charging admission. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Seems the "people" in charge, have missed the meaning
and importance that this site means to not only the
American people, but to the western world as well.

BILLIONS of dollars to build a transportation hub????
I think alot of people are padding their pockets at the
expense of the tax payers...

I could go on and on...
but remember, mature adults will listen to other opinions
and will respond without personal attacks.
I have followed this thread for years now, and I can't
believe the childish posts I have read.

These are just my opinions, and I'm sticking to them...

You do know that the towers slant towards the memorial and tower 2s left and right diamonds are figures of the footprints and faces the footprints of the memorial.

Most the people coming in here saying the hated the name, didn't like it to begain with. And you only write in this thread once or twin every two years. You don't post any pictures, comments or news, you only come in here to say how much you hate it. After this bit of news dies down you want be back, so why do you guys come here. It's what every do what you do.

http://www.wtc.com/news/freedom-tower-has-a-new-preferred-name


Freedom Tower has a new preferred name

Officials heading the agency that owns the site confirmed Thursday that the name had long ago taken second place to its official title: One World Trade Center.

One World Trade Center - which was once the name for the north trade center tower - has been the 1,776-foot tower's legal name for the past few years

A release announcing the first corporate tenant to sign a lease in the tower referred to the building as "One World Trade Center (the Freedom Tower)."

The agency's executive director, Chris Ward, suggested that the building's true name wouldn't be decided until well after it opens in 2013.

"There are a lot of buildings that have popular names," he said. "If the Freedom Tower is a popular name, as people think about this that will be the choice."


To me it'll always be the Freedom Tower, whatever others say

Freedom & 1776' are typical overdone Americanism.
Something that sounds like it came from Hollywood.
Even a fake spire to cover the antennas.
The world is tired of overdone and annoying American patriotism.
Red white and blue? There are more colours, you know.In other words, the rest of the world wishes America would stop being so American and join the bitter and cynical masses.Although very tragic, The whole 911 has been overdone to death.
Cost and time overruns, lack of public input (lip service only),
political corruption. Every politician trying to get his or her name
connected to this project. Delay after delay after delay...
Costing more and more tax dollars.I think you're failing to draw a distinction between a national tragedy (ie. an event) and the world's most complex construction project that was impacted by that event.

Number 4 should have been increased to over 1,000'.
4 supertalls, that would have been impressive.



Maybe it would impress those in this forum more, but to the passerby looking at the building with the naked eye, 35 or so feet will not make much of a difference.

I'm sure noone will notice or mind PA dumping the name the same time they sign the Chinese up as a major tenant.
Kind of fitting isn't it? You change the name to fit the tenant. No matter what the PA wants to call the tower Americans will always calls it Freedom Tower not 1WTC. There are 3 reasons for this, the first being out of respect for the first building and those who died in it, for superstitious reasons (would people really want to work in 1WTC after what happened to the first one) and lastly because of what the new building symbolizes!

I think you're failing to draw a distinction between a national tragedy (ie. an event) and the world's most complex construction project that was impacted by that event.

did you mean "politically" complex since that's all it is...skyscraper construction in nyc is very easy since the bedrock is right below your feet for the most part

did you mean "politically" complex since that's all it is...skyscraper construction in nyc is very easy since the bedrock is right below your feet for the most partNo. New York City is essentially at sealevel, which means that the entire foundation had to be reinforced to keep the Hudson River from seeping in. That foundation work, together with clearing the site and searching for remains, took many of the years that most people declared wasted. With a cleared foundation, you now have to build:

Five major skyscrapers, which will house Class A office space comparable to all of downtown Atlanta
One of the world’s most significant memorials and museums
The third-largest transportation hub in New York City
A world-class retail venue serving all of Lower Manhattan
A major performing arts center
A state-of-the-art vehicle security center
Two brand-new city streets (Greenwich and Fulton) and two brand-new pedestrian ways (Cortlandt and Dey)
All of the critical infrastructure to support these projects (chiller plant, utility and communication networks, etc).In the space of a few city blocks over the top of two continually operating mass transit rail lines.

There is no other site in the world facing the complexities of the World Trade Center rebuilding. Owing to the unique nature of the site, there is a lot of political baggage. However, the sheer logistics of this project are astounding.

Kind of fitting isn't it? You change the name to fit the tenant. No matter what the PA wants to call the tower Americans will always calls it Freedom Tower not 1WTC. There are 3 reasons for this, the first being out of respect for the first building and those who died in it, for superstitious reasons (would people really want to work in 1WTC after what happened to the first one) and lastly because of what the new building symbolizes!

So out of respect for the first building, we call it something else so people arent' superstitious about being there. I guess this only applies to one tower?

and the new building symbolizes bureaucracy and failed politics. if "Freedom Tower" represents that to you, then ok.:ohno:

americans will call it "Freedom Tower" because thats what they heard on their TV and because 70% of them are ignorant.

Man, is it just me or does this thread have a very little amount of photo's if you compare it to other threads. No Skyscrapercity members in New York?

So out of respect for the first building, we call it something else so people arent' superstitious about being there. I guess this only applies to one tower?

and the new building symbolizes bureaucracy and failed politics. if "Freedom Tower" represents that to you, then ok.:ohno:

americans will call it "Freedom Tower" because thats what they heard on their TV and because 70% of them are ignorant.
And what's the problem with calling it FT?? if people wanna call it Freedom Tower and not 1WTC that's none of your business, call it whatever you please.

personally im very happy the name is steering away from "freedom tower".

i felt that name was tacky, as opposed to 1WTC which is way more in the spirit of the former twin towers.

Change thread name please.

By the way, i saw some great progress last week. Photos soon i promise.

- A

I am with (One World Trade Center)
Its for New York City
Love to see it again there.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2eydnv4.jpg (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3539/3390424018_7cdf5fba73_b_d.jpg)
27 March update by Morrongiello < flickr.com >

^^ Wow A lot of process already! Great update! :)

The memorial’s flying along, that's for sure.

The formworks for the south core are rising! :banana:

Thx for updating us !!! There is notorius progress...

No. New York City is essentially at sealevel, which means that the entire foundation had to be reinforced to keep the Hudson River from seeping in. That foundation work, together with clearing the site and searching for remains, took many of the years that most people declared wasted. With a cleared foundation, you now have to build:

Five major skyscrapers, which will house Class A office space comparable to all of downtown Atlanta
One of the world’s most significant memorials and museums
The third-largest transportation hub in New York City
A world-class retail venue serving all of Lower Manhattan
A major performing arts center
A state-of-the-art vehicle security center
Two brand-new city streets (Greenwich and Fulton) and two brand-new pedestrian ways (Cortlandt and Dey)
All of the critical infrastructure to support these projects (chiller plant, utility and communication networks, etc).In the space of a few city blocks over the top of two continually operating mass transit rail lines.

There is no other site in the world facing the complexities of the World Trade Center rebuilding. Owing to the unique nature of the site, there is a lot of political baggage. However, the sheer logistics of this project are astounding.

Well, building complexities vs program complexities are two totally different things. Spacial issues are determined by the architect and with the demands and the given space, yeah, you need to hire talent to fit all that in there with the codes and what-not, but only 3 out of those things in the list are "necessary" and yes, that's including the given infrastructure which every building must have. But as for the construction, there is nothing new that ny is facing. A retaining wall is a retaining wall and nothing Gotham City has never seen before.

I liked the Freedom Tower name (I guess that makes me ignorant) but I don't see this "rename" as a big deal since it actually always was One World Trade Center. Emphasizing the correct address of a building is not that big of a deal.

lets please change the name of the thread before some get confused.

^^ How in the world could you get confused over the title? It already says 1WTC, which is the name I suppose you want. It also says Freedom Tower which is the name many people know it as and will continue to call it. Seems like it's the best option for everyone.

i love this tower i saw it on Yahoo

By the way, i saw some great progress last week. Photos soon i promise.

- A

Again, stop it.

Well, building complexities vs program complexities are two totally different things. Spacial issues are determined by the architect and with the demands and the given space, yeah, you need to hire talent to fit all that in there with the codes and what-not, but only 3 out of those things in the list are "necessary" and yes, that's including the given infrastructure which every building must have. But as for the construction, there is nothing new that ny is facing. A retaining wall is a retaining wall and nothing Gotham City has never seen before.


Dude, wtf are you talking about? Gotham City is fictional. Have you no brains? Why don't you just capitulate and admit that you were wrong. The new WTC is quite complex, period. Union Square in Hong Kong was equally as complex and it took them 10 years to make it. They had to build new roads, a dozen very large skyscrapers, a new stop for the metro, shopping facilities, etc. These projects just take time, so live with it. And it doesn't matter which of those things is "necessary;" they're building all of them!

And besides, everything on that list is necessary except the performing arts center. Office space is needed to replace what was lost with the original WTC. Check. You need infrastructure to make all of it work. Check. WTC was a transportation hub before, so it needs to be one again. Thousands of people will be commuting to the new WTC and since a subway goes directly under the complex, you had might as well connect them. Check. You need the new roads because the original WTC always caused traffic problems. Check. You need the security center, no matter how stupid it is to think that car park security will stop terrorists if they've already made it that far. Check. Retail venues are always a good idea, especially since the local, on-the-street economy was hurt big time by the WTC event. The memorial, while maybe not necessary in some people's minds since the building itself can be the memorial, is still a very good idea. You should have something to commemorate the original and to honor the memories of the victims. Check. Performing arts center? I actually don't see why this is necessary since the original WTC had no such thing. Nonetheless, I'm sure there's some reason why it's there.

I hope this isn't too off topic, but anyone interested in the original World Trade Center should find this video interesting. Video from inside the Twin Towers on 9/11 is rare. In fact, up until now the only video known to exist was the Jules Naudet footage from inside the North Tower lobby. There were a handful of photographs taken by a woman descending stairwell B, but this was also in the North Tower. No videos or even photos from inside the South Tower on 9/11 were known to exist. However, I just came across this video shot by an evacuating office worker on his pocketpc from inside the South Tower lobby! This video is incredible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taPjiKU3iPo

Again, stop it.

Glad I'm not the only one who notices.

Incredible video RK.. Thanks..

Well, building complexities vs program complexities are two totally different things. Spacial issues are determined by the architect and with the demands and the given space, yeah, you need to hire talent to fit all that in there with the codes and what-not, but only 3 out of those things in the list are "necessary" and yes, that's including the given infrastructure which every building must have. But as for the construction, there is nothing new that ny is facing. A retaining wall is a retaining wall and nothing Gotham City has never seen before.English please? Which three things exactly are necessary? By my count, the five skyscrapers are necessary to offset the lost office space so that Mr. Silverstein's lease can resume under equivilant terms. There's no way you weren't going to have the nation's most impressive memorial at the site of one of its worst tragedies. The retail space will help sustain the massive amount of people that are flowing through the site as well as help the Port Authority recoup some of the costs from such a massive project. The vehicle security center is something they would have liked to have at the site since the van bombing of the WTC in 1993 and an absolute necessity at the nation's ripest target. And then there's the unparalleled infrastructure demands of all of that, which are unavoidable in order to have a functioning site. By my count that only leaves the performing arts center and the two new city streets as arguably unnecessary. Take those elements out and you still have a site of unparalleled complexity.
The difference between the slurry walls at this site and the retaining walls elsewhere in New York is that they don't have the luxury of building from scratch. The only lucky thing to come out of 9/11 is that the existing slurry walls didn't break, keeping the site dry. But owing to the two transit lines that resumed continuous service shortly after the site was cleared, the new slurry walls had to be built behind the existing slurry walls which were just barely hanging on. Such a precarious replacement process is much more complex than simply building a new slurry wall from scratch.
(BTW, while New York City has been nicknamed Gotham, it is not synonymous with Gotham City from Batman)

EDIT: Err, what Krattle said.

Yeah Gotham is one of NYC nickname, not the DC comic city. But writing page long replys back and forth to each other only going to get the page lock. Let try to stay out of the long fights, or just keep them private Thanks.

I hope this isn't too off topic, but anyone interested in the original World Trade Center should find this video interesting. Video from inside the Twin Towers on 9/11 is rare. In fact, up until now the only video known to exist was the Jules Naudet footage from inside the North Tower lobby. There were a handful of photographs taken by a woman descending stairwell B, but this was also in the North Tower. No videos or even photos from inside the South Tower on 9/11 were known to exist. However, I just came across this video shot by an evacuating office worker on his pocketpc from inside the South Tower lobby! This video is incredible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taPjiKU3iPo

Amazing video. Almost 8 years later, new stuff keeps turning up on Utube. Who knows what might surface still...

Amazing video. Almost 8 years later, new stuff keeps turning up on Utube. Who knows what might surface still...

Yeah a lot of surveillance-camera footage. Would be amazing to see.

CHANCE FOR 'FREEDOM'

Freedom may be returning to One World Trade Center.

A bill to be submitted this week in Albany seeks a permanent name change for the tower at Ground Zero, officially declaring it the Freedom Tower.

Brooklyn Sen. Marty Golden is submitting the legislation in defiance of the Port Authority, which owns the site.

The agency last week announced it was dropping the patriotic moniker.

Golden is canvassing fellow Republicans as well as Democrats in the Legislature for support for his bill.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03292009/news/regionalnews/chance_for_freedom_161905.htm

more stupid fighting yawn

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r48/Athinaios/crane.jpg

A new crane is rising? :)

no, that's not a crane.

The north core seems like it grow a bit may take a while to catch up. Lets see if they put more man power on it.

A new crane is rising? :)

No, it's a concrete pump :)

That's not a crane -- it's a staircase for construction workers.

No, it's a concrete pump :)
Definitely not a concrete pump, where it's located there is no way to get cement trucks to it.

Amazing video. Almost 8 years later, new stuff keeps turning up on Utube. Who knows what might surface still...

Indeed. Just a few weeks ago I saw for the first time a new video of the first crash (into the North Tower). It was shot by a TV crew planning to go on the air shortly. They had the camera sitting on the ground (recording) and you hear the plane pass over and hear the explosion and see the immediate reactions of people in the camera frame (you don't actually see the plane though), then the camera pans to see the mushroom cloud of smoke just starting to rise. I'll get back on topic if need be, but here's a link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVEmAWaKoYQ

How Today Looks Ground Zero's webcam shows a better angle of it. It's just a staircase.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74692655@N00/3399153534/sizes/o/

(photo is too large to post in thread, just copy/paste link)

How Today Looks Ground Zero's webcam shows a better angle of it. It's just a staircase.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74692655@N00/3399153534/sizes/o/

(photo is too large to post in thread, just copy/paste link)

Medium size ;]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3559/3399153534_b9f59d1ac8.jpg

WTC7 looks amazing, I expect WTC1 to look somgthing like that as well.

^^ I agree, it looks awesome during the day&night and the lights of the entrance are cool:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r48/Athinaios/NYC2075.jpg

WTC7 looks amazing, I expect WTC1 to look somgthing like that as well.

The glass looks to be clearer on 1WTC, and lighter too. A light grey, or possibly even a very light green. The individual pieces of the cladding are also supposed to be larger than on a normal skyscraper. I'm pretty sure this is the mock-up of the cladding, which was taken sometime in the last two years. Needless to say, I think the two towers will compliment each other very well:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/04/09/nyregion/09freedom-650.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/45/137646867_3bc58168b8.jpg?v=0

isn't the PA set to hand over control of the site to silverstein today?

isn't the PA set to hand over control of the site to silverstein today?

For Tower 2. Tower 1 is being built by the Port Authority.

very clear up date picture.....great can see NYK at present time now....

A Chinese company is going to make the 1WTC cladding, at least on the bottom part of the tower. I have to say I'm a little disappointed. The Port Authority picked the low bidder for the base cladding, of a very special building. Is that not snubbing it? Why are they giving a glass contract to a company that could then make the same glass for hundreds of other buildings? What was their reasoning behind this, is the cladding going to look nearly as stunning now? Not that I have a problem with Chinese made products, but Chinese made glass just doesn’t feel right on this tower. :ohno:

Chinese to make Freedom Tower glass?
March 31, 2009

A Chinese firm will manufacture one of the most important security-sensitive parts of the tower at One World Trade Center. Eyewitness News has learned that several American companies lost out in a bid to make the blast-resistant glass for the building's base. Instead, the safety-critical panels will be made in China.

It's not just a matter of jobs going overseas while America struggles through a near-depression. There's the issue of safety. One American firm has perfected the making of blast-resistant glass.They were the front-runners in the bid to make it for the Freedom Tower, but in a surprise to many in the construction industry, the Port Authority chose a Chinese firm to make the terrorism-resistant glass.

The first 20 stories of the Freedom Tower will have specially designed blast-resistant glass panels. It's a critical part of security for a building that will instantly become an American symbol and therefore a target.

US Glass Magazine is reporting that a U.S. firm, DCM Solera, the lowest bidder, will use a sub-contractor to procure the glass from a Chinese manufacturer.

"This building has to not only meet but exceed every possible safety and security standard out there," fire safety expert Glenn Corbett said.
Corbett says the Port Authority is making a big mistake.

"This is the number one terrorist target in the country," he said. "Why are we setting our standards so low for the minimum possible bid on this?"

The Port Authority released the following statement: "As a public agency, we select contractors...through a competitive bidding process to ensure the best price and quality since the tower is being financed with public money.This contract was awarded last August to an American company, which subbed out the glass fabrication work to a Chinese firm. We've inspected the firm's manufacturing in China and they're confident that the glass they will fabricate will meet or exceed safety code standards."

PPG Industries of Pittsburgh designed and developed the type of glass to be used in the tower, they worked for months with the Port Authority only to lose out to the low bidder.

"Its astounding to us that they would take a project with this level of development work, we all invested in prior to it's completion, it's specifications and with this level of visibility the Freedom Tower and bid it offshore," PPG senior vice president Vicky Holt said.

New York's senior senator is calling on the Port Authority to rescind the glass contract.

"I think that we have seen product after product from China be unreliable, and in this instance, we need the most reliable," Senator Chuck Schumer said.

The Port Authority says it will continue to send representatives to China to monitor the quality of the glass.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/investigators&id=6731727

Not really a big deal, since American firms design and work on a lot of Chinese skyscrapers. Just don't lick the glass on the base of the Freedom Tower if you don't want lead poisoning.

^^That is an extremely distasteful move by the Port Authority. If it were any other building on the site I wouldn't mind it, but I think this is very inappropriate for 1WTC.

PPG should have been awarded the contract. 1WTC should be entirely made by Americans.

Not really a big deal, since American firms design and work on a lot of Chinese skyscrapers. Just don't lick the glass on the base of the Freedom Tower if you don't want lead poisoning.

If it was any other skyscraper I would agree with your comparison of American designed skyscrapers in China. But Chinese made glass on the "FREEDOM TOWER", are you sure there's nothing wrong with that picture...

I am not sure it is good idea to get glass from China... They have reputation for making low quality products. I think it is disaster.

A Chinese company is going to make the 1WTC cladding, at least on the bottom part of the tower. I have to say I'm a little disappointed. The Port Authority picked the low bidder for the base cladding, of a very special building. Is that not snubbing it? Why are they giving a glass contract to a company that could then make the same glass for hundreds of other buildings? What was their reasoning behind this, is the cladding going to look nearly as stunning now? Not that I have a problem with Chinese made products, but Chinese made glass just doesn’t feel right on this tower. :ohno:While I agree with the sentiment, as a public agency the Port Authority is required to award contracts to the lowest bidder in order to avoid charges of favoritism and kick-backs. If they'd awarded the contract to an American manufacturer at a much higher cost, you have people on here complaining that the PANYNJ is wasting taxpayers' dollars unnnecessarily yet again.

I'm glad to know that racism is alive and well. :)

No, it's a concrete pump :)

A new crane is rising? :)

its staircase/elevator(?) cause they're raising south core

If it was any other skyscraper I would agree with your comparison of American designed skyscrapers in China. But Chinese made glass on the "FREEDOM TOWER", are you sure there's nothing wrong with that picture...

Who cares man, it's just glass and it's just a skyscraper. Just happens to be a really tall one and called Freedom Tower (actually, it's called 1WTC). But that doesn't mean the contractor can't choose for cheap glass made in China. After all, we live in a democracy so he has the freedom to choose.

Why are we bitching about who's making the glass for this build? and who cares. Something for the haterz to hang out for the week. And its called the world trade center not the america only center. Wonder why everbody hatez us, because we thank we're
better. Lets look at the bigger picture and stop looking at the world through a close door.

Its is just glass but it's not just a skyscraper

Like I said, glad to see that racism is still alive and well.

Do you know who designed the original World Trade Center? Minoru Yamasaki, a Japanese architect. His vision for the complex was that it would be a symbol of peace because that is what World Trade brings about. WORLD TRADE. That's what this whole building is about - the tying togeter of countries in peaceful cooperation through Capitalist trade.

It disgusts me to think that my fellow countrymen can harbor such vitriol toward another people just because they aren't American.

7am , concrete pump truck is here, looks like they pour north section today :)

7am , concrete pump truck is here, looks like they pour north section today :)

Fantastic news... Any new North side pictures so we can see the core rising?

In terms of this Glass made in China issue - just remember China pretty much owns America now......:)

^^That is an extremely distasteful move by the Port Authority. If it were any other building on the site I wouldn't mind it, but I think this is very inappropriate for 1WTC.

PPG should have been awarded the contract. 1WTC should be entirely made by Americans.
The idea of it being made entirely by Americans went out the window a long time ago. The heavy steel for the exterior columns is being imported from Europe (the Netherlands I believe) because america's steel industry didn't have the capability to make it! Show just how much america's manufacturing ability has declined.

I think that "City Hall" should expel and dismiss Port Authority from this site. I'm sorry but they were given many chances before but so far they are should be blames for every site delay. They pretty much proved that they cannot manage project this size. :ohno: And now they pretty much sending money overseas while we see thousands of layoffs. That pretty sad.

Like I said, glad to see that racism is still alive and well.

Do you know who designed the original World Trade Center? Minoru Yamasaki, a Japanese architect. His vision for the complex was that it would be a symbol of peace because that is what World Trade brings about. WORLD TRADE. That's what this whole building is about - the tying togeter of countries in peaceful cooperation through Capitalist trade.

It disgusts me to think that my fellow countrymen can harbor such vitriol toward another people just because they aren't American.

I did not know that it was designed by him...interesting tidbit!
Frankly speaking, it would be more patriotic to choose an American firm, but choosing the lowest cost is the point of having competition in a free market.

Not really a big deal, since American firms design and work on a lot of Chinese skyscrapers. Just don't lick the glass on the base of the Freedom Tower if you don't want lead poisoning.

Indeed. Leslie Robertson, chief engineer of the original World Trade Center, also designed the recent Shanghai World Financial Center in China (or at least, his firm did). Since the WTC is all about international trade, I see no problem with the Chinese having a small hand in its construction.

I don't understand mindless patriotism.

Indeed. Leslie Robertson, chief engineer of the original World Trade Center, also designed the recent Shanghai World Financial Center in China (or at least, his firm did). Since the WTC is all about international trade, I see no problem with the Chinese having a small hand in its construction.

SOM did Burj Dubai, etc. The more we come together as a single people the better off humanity will be.

Like I said, glad to see that racism is still alive and well.

Do you know who designed the original World Trade Center? Minoru Yamasaki, a Japanese architect. His vision for the complex was that it would be a symbol of peace because that is what World Trade brings about. WORLD TRADE. That's what this whole building is about - the tying togeter of countries in peaceful cooperation through Capitalist trade.

It disgusts me to think that my fellow countrymen can harbor such vitriol toward another people just because they aren't American.

When did I say that? There are very good reasons why the glass on this tower should be American made. This is more than just 1WTC. There's no excuse for this tower's glass to be made in China.

In terms of this Glass made in China issue - just remember China pretty much owns America now......:)

Me or my government? Big difference.

Krattle, maybe you have confused racism with nationalism. The point is not the glass is made by people of Asian decent, it is that is will be made by a communist country who have been producing crap. Dangerous crap. Need examples? I have a pair of Vise-Grip pliers. The Vise-Grip (American) company is now out of business. Because of poor quality? NO. I have had this pair 40+ years and they still work perfectly. I recently needed another pair and the only choice was Chinese made. It broke within an hour, doing the same stuff the other pair has been doing for so many years. Chinese drywall made with sulpher. Milk with melamine poising children. Lead toy paint, etc. Americans made huge environmental and heath mistakes (Love Canal, Three Mile Island, Georgia Peanut etc) also so I am not preaching American superiority. The bottom line is that American jobs are very important right now. We shouldn't be saving a few pennies and taking huge risks gambling on CURRENT Chinese quality standards. WTC1 should be a symbol of Americas National Pride. Just my opinions

Edited my own post for being off-topic.

^^You people better quit it.

The idea of it being made entirely by Americans went out the window a long time ago. The heavy steel for the exterior columns is being imported from Europe (the Netherlands I believe) because america's steel industry didn't have the capability to make it! Show just how much america's manufacturing ability has declined.

Sorry, if I recall correctly, this has nothing to do with America's manufacturing ability, but with geography. There's only one or two plants on the planet that are actually able to produce the quality of steel needed for certain Freedom Tower steel and none are in the US because the high quality natural resources aren't here. In any case, the PA stated that parts for 1WTC would be coming all over the world both to save and make the rest of the world feel like part of the rebuilding process.

The Chinese made glass is going to cover an American made blast wall so if they can meet the specs let em at it.

Only the W14x730 rolled steel sections are being made in Luxemburg, by an Indian owned company. The US doesn't have a mill that can roll "super beams" anymore. Ebola, it's not the quality of the steel, it's the size.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35124796@N04/3256117559/in/photostream/

A W14x730 has a 4.91 inch thick flange and a 3.07 inch thick web.

Remember also, it wasn't just Americans who died on 9/11. China in particular had four citizens who were killed in the attacks. I think it's only fair for all of these countries to have a say in the memorial/site reconstruction to be able to honor their own citizens, albeit if only a small one... then again, the glass at the base of the tower IS just a small part of the overall site plan. Again, I think it's appropriate and don't see any problem.

^^ that' s right

The idea of it being made entirely by Americans went out the window a long time ago. The heavy steel for the exterior columns is being imported from Europe (the Netherlands I believe) because america's steel industry didn't have the capability to make it! Show just how much america's manufacturing ability has declined.

Luxembourg and Spain actually

well said Krattle

Acting like Elvis

The RGB webcam makes an appearance

http://www.rebuildgroundzero.org/modules/mod_webcam_pop_up.php?refresh=60&altText=Groud+Zero+Webcam+-+Rebuild+Ground+Zero+.org&camImgY=768&camImgX=960&imageurl=http://rebuildgroundzero.org/webcam/rgz_000.jpg

Acting like Elvis

The RGB webcam makes an appearance

http://www.rebuildgroundzero.org/modules/mod_webcam_pop_up.php?refresh=60&altText=Groud+Zero+Webcam+-+Rebuild+Ground+Zero+.org&camImgY=768&camImgX=960&imageurl=http://rebuildgroundzero.org/webcam/rgz_000.jpgI wish it would flicker to life during daylight hours, when you can actually see something.

I wish it would flicker to life during daylight hours, when you can actually see something.

I'll second that.

^^You people better quit it.



Sorry, if I recall correctly, this has nothing to do with America's manufacturing ability, but with geography. There's only one or two plants on the planet that are actually able to produce the quality of steel needed for certain Freedom Tower steel and none are in the US because the high quality natural resources aren't here. In any case, the PA stated that parts for 1WTC would be coming all over the world both to save and make the rest of the world feel like part of the rebuilding process.
Not quality. Size. No mill in North America could make beams that heavy. Natural resources has nothing to do with it. Mills aren't built over iron mines. Luxembourg (not Netherlands) has to have raw materials shipped from a lot further away than Pennsylvania mills do.

I would think it would have more to do with economics, realistically how often is a steel of that grade/size needed? So why waste the resources and time to retool when you can roll form deck and I beams with very little risk and a much greater demand.

^^ What it has everything to do about is the the deterioration of america's manufacturing infrastructure. We obviously have more demand for large structural steel than Luxembourg does yet they have the capacity to manufacture them. We have lost so much manufacturing infrastructure and capacity that we couldn't respond quickly if the demand arose. During WWII America rapidly changed its manufacturing plants from domestic goods to military materials, it's the same thing happened today we'd be SOL because we don't even have the manufacturing capacity to switch. It's certainly a sad reflection on America. :ohno:

Not sure if that is bad as long as you have reliable suppliers. This is typical for globalization.
Nationalism and protectionism may seem better in short term, but in the long term will hurt international trade and economic growth.

^^ What it has everything to do about is the the deterioration of america's manufacturing infrastructure. We obviously have more demand for large structural steel than Luxembourg does yet they have the capacity to manufacture them. We have lost so much manufacturing infrastructure and capacity that we couldn't respond quickly if the demand arose. During WWII America rapidly changed its manufacturing plants from domestic goods to military materials, it's the same thing happened today we'd be SOL because we don't even have the manufacturing capacity to switch. It's certainly a sad reflection on America. :ohno:

Help us all. Anther self-loathing idiot American.

Look, bud. China's GDP of $3.3T is 60% manufacturing or $2.0T. The US's GDP of $13.8T is 20% manufacturing or $2.8T. The US is still the biggest manufacturer in the world excluding the EU. US manufacturing base seems inadequate mostly because growth in the consumption of manufacturing goods in America has been rapidly growing while manufacturing has been stagnant to slowly contracting.

As far as responding to a military threat, if you include the Coast Guard, the US spends more on the military than the rest of the world combined. If you didn't see it on the news, would you even know we had invaded two countries half way around the world?

If you want to feel sorry of someone, may I suggest the Japanese whose exports have fallen nearly 50% in 12 months because we Americans are no longer consuming manufactured goods at our normal glutonous, debt-exploding, unsustainable pace.

The fact is that the market for steel beams that large is too small. In the old days, every steel-producing nation would have the capability to make every size of steel because the tariffs for shipping across borders were steep enough to make that economical. Now Luxembourg probably has the corner on that small market of massive steel, and produces it for every job across the world. The flip side is that the U.S. steel industry (what's left of it, anyway) also has access to potentially every job across the world.

The concrete foundation (at least on the eastern side) now appears to be one floor below street level. From today:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9524/freedomtowerconcrete200.jpg

Freedom Tower Follow Up: Senator Schumer and Safety Group Calls for Change
April 1, 2009

There has been much industry response to the investigative report published yesterday from USGlass magazine regarding the glass for One World Trade Center being manufactured in China after U.S. companies provided much of the development work. The local New York Affiliate, ABC-7, highlighted the story last night based on the USGlass article. In that report New York Senator Charles Schumer called for a rescinding of the glass contract.

Also in response to that article, the Skyscraper Safety Campaign (SSC) held a press conference this morning in New York City regarding this issue.

"It is a well-known fact that numerous Chinese products have inconsistent and questionable quality standards …," said Glenn Corbett of John Jay College in New York City, chief technical advisor to the Skyscraper Safety Campaign.

"In addition to grave safety concerns, the use of Chinese glass in the Freedom Tower is a slap in the face to every hardworking American worker who has lost his or her job in this time of economic crisis," he added. "President Obama has called for jobs to remain in this country so that U.S. citizens can remain gainfully employed."

Corbett also is concerned about the fact that the Freedom Tower is an extremely sensitive building in terms of security.

"The type and quality of glass is one of the most important considerations when designing a terrorism-resistant building," he said. "Glass shards have killed and maimed many people in previous terrorist blasts around the world. It is critical that the design and fabrication of the Freedom Tower glazing meet the highest possible quality standards. Does all of the glass for the Freedom Tower meet the standards of organizations such as the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) and the Department of Defense?"

The SSC called for the following immediate actions in the press conference:

-For the New York and New Jersey Congressional delegation to initiate a federal probe into the legality of the glass contract with China and to explore the relationship between the contract and the signing of the Freedom Tower lease with Beijing Vantone Co.

-For the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey (PANYNJ) to explain why no American glass company received this contract, and to answer the question why American union workers have been overlooked.

-For the PANYNJ to immediately void the Chinese glass contract and use U.S. products instead.

-For the PANYNJ to show the public exactly which standards were used to design the glass.

http://www.usgnn.com/newsFreedomTower20090401.htm

Looks like everybody upset about this deal. The Pa was just trying to save money on this deal. Now it's biting them in the ass. Looks like the US is going to make the glass after all. The signing of Beijing Vantone Co and the glass contract look a little shady to me. They made the news days after each other. Then they change the name of the freedom tower, I hope it was to make there new business partners happy.

We'll have to wait to see how this plays out

Not sure if that is bad as long as you have reliable suppliers. This is typical for globalization.
Nationalism and protectionism may seem better in short term, but in the long term will hurt international trade and economic growth.

Keep singing that tune, ignoring all the economic catastrophe that particular mindset has engendered in the world.

Globalization is a giant race to the bottom that's fully dependent on cheap energy.

April 02.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1040861.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1040862.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1040864.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1040865.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1040867.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1040869.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1040868.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1040872.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1040883.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1040885.jpg

great up date...

Krattle, maybe you have confused racism with nationalism. The point is not the glass is made by people of Asian decent, it is that is will be made by a communist country who have been producing crap. Dangerous crap. Need examples? I have a pair of Vise-Grip pliers. The Vise-Grip (American) company is now out of business. Because of poor quality? NO. I have had this pair 40+ years and they still work perfectly. I recently needed another pair and the only choice was Chinese made. It broke within an hour, doing the same stuff the other pair has been doing for so many years. Chinese drywall made with sulpher. Milk with melamine poising children. Lead toy paint, etc. Americans made huge environmental and heath mistakes (Love Canal, Three Mile Island, Georgia Peanut etc) also so I am not preaching American superiority. The bottom line is that American jobs are very important right now. We shouldn't be saving a few pennies and taking huge risks gambling on CURRENT Chinese quality standards. WTC1 should be a symbol of Americas National Pride. Just my opinions

Last time I checked most skyscrapers in China were still standing.

Help us all. Anther self-loathing idiot American.
I'm glad you have an opinion, everybody has one just like everybody has a a__ hole but you don't have to be derogatory to others while expressing yours.
Look, bud.
See my comments above.
China's GDP of $3.3T is 60% manufacturing or $2.0T. The US's GDP of $13.8T is 20% manufacturing or $2.8T. The US is still the biggest manufacturer in the world excluding the EU. US manufacturing base seems inadequate mostly because growth in the consumption of manufacturing goods in America has been rapidly growing while manufacturing has been stagnant to slowly contracting.

As far as responding to a military threat, if you include the Coast Guard, the US spends more on the military than the rest of the world combined. If you didn't see it on the news, would you even know we had invaded two countries half way around the world?
Now we can get down to the real discussion. My point had nothing to do with how much is spent on the military in America or any other country for that matter. My point was that we no longer have the manufacturing infrastructure to gear up rapidly to manufacture military materials if they suddenly become required like we did when WWII started. We certainly don't have the ship building infrastructure to build capitol ships and our aircraft industry thinks that building 20 aircraft per year is fast. Many other countries (mostly our enemies) have a much larger capacity in this field than we do.

good job jwalas, part of formwork are now moving up...

Acting like Elvis

The RGB webcam makes an appearance

http://www.rebuildgroundzero.org/modules/mod_webcam_pop_up.php?refresh=60&altText=Groud+Zero+Webcam+-+Rebuild+Ground+Zero+.org&camImgY=768&camImgX=960&imageurl=http://rebuildgroundzero.org/webcam/rgz_000.jpg

Can someone with a lot of time and patience save a snapshot everyday, and then at the end just make a huge slideshow video? It would make a great Youtube hit actually...

Can we stay on top for 3 seconds people. The state doesn't even like the fact china making the glass. So why are we still fighting about it. Lets move on

part of formwork are now moving up...It moved up at least a week ago, see this pic (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=34330256&postcount=8054), taken 27 March.

Can someone with a lot of time and patience save a snapshot everyday, and then at the end just make a huge slideshow video? It would make a great Youtube hit actually...

Actually, the guy who runs the site did post a time-lapse video from his camera on YouTube, only it was from early 2007 to the end of 2007. I don't know why he didn't do one for 2008. Maybe he'll post it in the future, or maybe he'll do one for 2009. But I don't think you're going to find anyone here with the patience to save a picture every day for a year or more.

And sorry, I don't have a link to the YouTube video off hand.

Actually, the guy who runs the site did post a time-lapse video from his camera on YouTube, only it was from early 2007 to the end of 2007. I don't know why he didn't do one for 2008. Maybe he'll post it in the future, or maybe he'll do one for 2009. But I don't think you're going to find anyone here with the patience to save a picture every day for a year or more.I was, but unforunately, RGZ became so erratic that I stopped.

Last time I checked most skyscrapers in China were still standing.

Will they last 100's of years? Only time will tell. I hope they don't have interiors with sulpher dry-wall products...

The Freedom Tower/WTC1 looks like it was designed to stand forever. Just look at the quality of the rebar!

Viperfreak, you really have no idea what you're talking about do you?

We don't even know if an American skyscraper will last 100 years because even the Woolworth Building hasn't been around that long!

You can't tell the quality of rebar from 500 pixel pictures taken from hundreds of feet away. Why don't you do a little research into the methods used to build skyscrapers in China before you make such blatantly ignorant statements such as the one you just made? Many major skyscrapers in China were designed and built by international companies and design firms. They're very professional.

Just look at the quality of the rebar!
At best you seen the quantity of rebar, certainly not the quality! By making statements like that you're showing that you have no idea what you're talking about. :ohno:

WTF are you talking about? It's pretty much the highest quality rebar you can use. :lol:

I've seen more rebar used on this site then anywhere else. I preety much doubt that any of its cheap. I can't see them using anything but the best. Gold and platium plated rebar with a diamond cover lol. This of Trumps taste and it isn't really real lmao.

This rebar got gold rims and they be spinnin, they be spinnin.

Dziś mija 36 lat od oficjalnego otwarcia kompleksu WORLD TRADE CENTER

"Wielki dzień w wielkim mieście" 4.04.1973r - 4.04.2009r ||

World Trade Center Complex || 5 Sierpnia 1966r - 4 Kwietnia 1973r - 11 Września 2001

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3566/wtcsunrisedo6.jpg

^^ Why did you write it in Polish, I think most of people don't understand it ;)

translation:
Today passes 36 yrs from the official opening of WTC complex.
"Big day in big city"

Nice picture! :okay:

Awesome picture!

Will they last 100's of years? Only time will tell. I hope they don't have interiors with sulpher dry-wall products...

The Freedom Tower/WTC1 looks like it was designed to stand forever. Just look at the quality of the rebar!

Well some Chinese temples and pagodas are still standing after 2,000 years, some in major earthquake zones. I think they know how to construct things.

At best you seen the quantity of rebar, certainly not the quality! By making statements like that you're showing that you have no idea what you're talking about. :ohno:

All rebar is just recycled steel. It comes in 3 different tensile strengths, 40, 60, and 75 ksi, but it is all of the highest quality. 60 ksi is used in most buildings, but i wouldn't be surprised if they used 75 in the shear walls of a skyscraper like this. Regardless, you can't tell what strength it is simply by looking at those pictures. BTW, the green coating is for the long term resistance to corrosion. Not sure why they'd be using in the building. Usually is used in bridges and parking garages. Anywhere that cracks might develop and subject the rebar to deicing salts.

They are using the epoxy coated bar (green) in the loading dock area, underground parking, around water tanks and MEP shafts. There are 6 rain water storage tanks in the basement levels and many more spread throughout the structure.

Well, not a skyscraper, but the Brooklyn Bridge takes a daily heavy pounding and it is well over a hundred years old.

Well, not a skyscraper, but the Brooklyn Bridge takes a daily heavy pounding and it is well over a hundred years old.

Thats wot its designed for...

Dziś mija 36 lat od oficjalnego otwarcia kompleksu WORLD TRADE CENTER

"Wielki dzień w wielkim mieście" 4.04.1973r - 4.04.2009r ||

World Trade Center Complex || 5 Sierpnia 1966r - 4 Kwietnia 1973r - 11 Września 2001

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3566/wtcsunrisedo6.jpg

Very cool shot. It shows that the interior of any skyscraper is mostly empty space...which is why 2 buildings over 1300 ft tall collapsed into a pile only a few dozen feet high...

Very cool shot. It shows that the interior of any skyscraper is mostly empty space...which is why 2 buildings over 1300 ft tall collapsed into a pile only a few dozen feet high...

*Face palm*

with all due respect... this constuction is moving really really really slow... years just to get above ground...

Yes it normal doesn't take this long. But we're not talking about a plot of fresh land. The underground was destroyed as well. So they're not just rebuilding this building. If you could see below ground you wouldn't say it's to slow. And haven't heard it called slow in a while or maybe I just stop caring, see you next year when you post here again.

Very cool shot. It shows that the interior of any skyscraper is mostly empty space...which is why 2 buildings over 1300 ft tall collapsed into a pile only a few dozen feet high...

that's actually not why...sorry....nice try though. It collapsed becasue the fire reached over 1200 degrees, which melts steel. the freedom tower would collapse too,god forbid, if that happened, it doesn't have to do with where the columns were placed.

that's actually not why...sorry....nice try though. It collapsed becasue the fire reached over 1200 degrees, which melts steel. the freedom tower would collapse too,god forbid, if that happened, it doesn't have to do with where the columns were placed.

No. The final NIST report on the collapse is 10,000 pages on the Twin Towers and about 780 pages for WTC7, but if you want a very, very brief summary on why the buildings collapsed, here goes. Nothing melted. The fires in the towers reached 1832 degrees F. Structural steel loses 50% of its strength at 1100 degrees F and about 90% of its strength at 1832 degrees F, and the location of the columns did have a lot to do with why it collapsed. The towers had to collapse, they couldn't have possibly remained standing. NIST concluded that if there was no damage from the planes and there were only the fires, regardless of fireproofing, the towers wouldn't have collapsed; other engineers argue that the towers would have collapsed regardless of whether there was any damage from the planes.

WTC7's fireproofing did its job well and kept the steel from reaching temps any higher than about 400 degrees F (don't remember exact temp), which is why it remained standing for 7 hours and allowed everyone to evacuate before it finally did collapse. Still, 400 degrees was enough for key steel beams to experience thermal expansion and lead to structural failure. Again, nothing melted. Freedom Tower will be much stronger because it has a concrete core and concrete-coated external columns, which withstands fire much better. The Freedom Tower will be the safest building (from fire) in the world. (Off topic? :nuts:)

that's actually not why...sorry....nice try though. It collapsed becasue the fire reached over 1200 degrees, which melts steel. the freedom tower would collapse too,god forbid, if that happened, it doesn't have to do with where the columns were placed.
If you read his statement correctly, he didn't say that was the reason they collapsed. All he said was that the amount of open space showed why the pile of rubble wasn't any bigger than it was. A very valid point since most buildings are over 95% open space to allow for habitation.

i feel as if the next person who posts on how slow this project is should be banned. On another note, I have a question, why the double core? I saw this project for the first time last week and was absolutely shocked by the scale of it, and one thing i noticed is that the cores seem to take up a lot of space, so i guess, why are there two cores, and are they going to be as immense as they are now until the roof? stupid questions i am sure, so flame away, i know you all want to...

The core may appear to be two separate cores at this point in construction but it is in fact one central core. The central corridor is the divide between the two halves, as the north half catches up with the south half they well be joined together with massive concrete and steel beams. Higher up in the building the core gets smaller and takes on an octagonal shape, mirroring the outside walls.

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

The perimeter columns well not be encased in concrete above the ground floor. They well be covered with a vastly improved form of spray on fire proofing.

In the unlikely event of another 9-11 style attack the building well be able to withstand the loss of as many as 3 of the 6 perimeter columns on any face without the collapse of the entire building.

"The two foot thick core walls well protect the redundant sprinkler system allowing the system to extinguish any resulting fires." -Larry Silverstein

He was talking about #7 but #1 is designed the same way.

If you read his statement correctly, he didn't say that was the reason they collapsed. All he said was that the amount of open space showed why the pile of rubble wasn't any bigger than it was. A very valid point since most buildings are over 95% open space to allow for habitation.

I understood his statement about why the rubble pile was fairly low, but I was responding to this:

It collapsed becasue the fire reached over 1200 degrees, which melts steel.

Higher up in the building the core gets smaller and takes on an octagonal shape, mirroring the outside walls.

This is something I've been concerned about for a long time. In WTC7 there seems to be a good amount of distance between the core and outer wall, but for the Freedom Tower it looks like the core will be larger with added refuge rooms. I know you've said the core tapers off as the building gets higher, but can you tell us about what the average distance between the core and perimeter wall will be?

Also, will the core be like the core in the original towers, rectangular with two sides of the core closer to the outer walls than the other two sides of the core? Or will the core be evenly octagonal with the outer walls? I think that would be cool.

Well some Chinese temples and pagodas are still standing after 2,000 years, some in major earthquake zones. I think they know how to construct things.

Not that I want to continue this harsh debate, but any structure/consumer products made back then was of a higher quality than today's regardless of which culture made it...just look at some of the stuff made in the U.S.-you can't really find high-quality products anymore without sacrificing more money than before to buy it.

There well be about 40 feet between the core and the perimeter all the way around. The east and west sides of the core get quite a bit smaller above the 3rd floor due to the vents for the PATH exhausting on the 3rd floor and several shafts ending on the mechanical floors before the 20th floor.

Not that I want to continue this harsh debate, but any structure/consumer products made back then was of a higher quality than today's regardless of which culture made it...just look at some of the stuff made in the U.S.-you can't really find high-quality products anymore without sacrificing more money than before to buy it.



There has always been a price for quality, "you get what you pay for!" As far as structures are concerned, many older buildings were over designed due to lack of engineering knowledge or materials. The steel being used today is far better than steel used 100 or even 30 years ago.

Hmmm the fire wasn't the cause of the collapsed the plane crash was. Since the planes cause the fire to begin with. The planes also destroyed the sprinkler system, Knock off most the old fire protection. Anybody who believes just a fire would have made those build collapsed is out of their mind. If a 315,000 lb aircarft moving at 500 miles per hour hits a building what do you think is going to happing. And both buildings started to collapse where the planes had hit them.

I have to agree with kingsc. American Airlines Flight 11 hit the North Tower at nearly 500 mph and United Airlines Flight 175 hit the South Tower at nearly 600 mph. Do you know how much damage there had to be. The Towers actually did better than what was expected from there design. Leslie E. Robertson the structural engineer designed the Towers to take a fully loaded Boeing 707 flying into them slowly lost in the fog. The fire was partially to blame but the structural damage was nearly beyond repair. Had the Towers survived it would be dangerous to go near them as they would have been weak.

If you read his statement correctly, he didn't say that was the reason they collapsed. All he said was that the amount of open space showed why the pile of rubble wasn't any bigger than it was. A very valid point since most buildings are over 95% open space to allow for habitation.

You know, you're right, his statement can be interpereted both ways. sorry if i misinterpereted it

I have to agree with kingsc. American Airlines Flight 11 hit the North Tower at nearly 500 mph and United Airlines Flight 175 hit the South Tower at nearly 600 mph. Do you know how much damage there had to be. The Towers actually did better than what was expected from there design. Leslie E. Robertson the structural engineer designed the Towers to take a fully loaded Boeing 707 flying into them slowly lost in the fog. The fire was partially to blame but the structural damage was nearly beyond repair. Had the Towers survived it would be dangerous to go near them as they would have been weak.

To both of you, no structural engineer in the world believes that it was the damage from the planes that caused the towers to collapse. If it were damage from the planes that caused the towers to collapse, then they would have collapsed the instant the plane hit and the columns were severed. The towers wouldn't have just stood there in mid-air for an hour plus like a cartoon character going over the edge of a cliff, and then falling. The fires caused the collapse. Yes, you can look at it as the planes caused the fires so the plane caused the collapse, but it wasn't structural damage from the planes which caused collapse. (And, yes, this is off topic, so back to the Freedom Tower!)

To both of you, no structural engineer in the world believes that it was the damage from the planes that caused the towers to collapse. If it were damage from the planes that caused the towers to collapse, then they would have collapsed the instant the plane hit and the columns were severed. The towers wouldn't have just stood there in mid-air for an hour plus like a cartoon character going over the edge of a cliff, and then falling. The fires caused the collapse. Yes, you can look at it as the planes caused the fires so the plane caused the collapse, but it wasn't structural damage from the planes which caused collapse. (And, yes, this is off topic, so back to the Freedom Tower!)

That is absolutely correct. The impact of the planes alone caused monumental damage but the towers could have been repaired. It was the damage from the plane(s) in addition to the impact of the fires that weakened the floor trusses and eventually pulled the walls in that combined to doom the buildings. Practically any other building in the world hit by a massive jet travelling at that speed would have either immediately toppled over or snapped in half at the impact point. The towers did remarkably.

My point is, in case you miss it. there would have been no fire if a plane wouldn't have crash into the building. And I doubt a fire would have live long enough to get that hot sprinkler system would have tooking care of it. No plane crash no fire don't make it hard then it has to be. That the last I'll say about it we're getting way of topic.

My apologies to all who have been waiting for my photos. Been going through some stuff lately. I will have them up plus new ones by friday. :)

- A

Looking at the sketches Zen put up a while back, one of the FT's improvements seems to be the way the floor trusses attach. One of the weaknesses in the Twins was the flimsy attachment of the floor trusses to the outer walls and core, that allowed the trusses to pull away when they started sagging.
And, anyone who doesn't think the fire was the major factor might take note that when the second tower went down, the part that gave away was the wall where most of the burning fuel and debris was, opposite the impact point .
Between stronger outer columns, a lot stronger core, stronger floor truss attachment, and a helluva lot better fireproofing the new kid should hold up pretty well. Not to mention numerous protected stairwells to keep people on upper floors from being trapped.
I'll take a job on the top floor any day, and not miss the people who spend their lives looking for things to fear.

edited: off topic

My apologies to all who have been waiting for my photos. Been going through some stuff lately. I will have them up plus new ones by friday. :)If there are actually pictures up by Friday, I think I'll faint.:)

If there are actually pictures up by Friday, I think I'll faint.:)

I would count in better chance of seeing GOD :)

p.s: yup every NY thread now says same thing, this guy is spamming again wtf :bleep:

i wouldn't call it spamming, hes just trying to be polite and tell us when he will get a chance to post new pics.
but i do agree that its annoying.

No, he's not "being polite". About 24 of his last 30 posts going back to January say "pics coming soon" or suchlike.
He's game-playing, aka spamming.

okay

Actually RKOwens the impact from the airplane did cause structural damage which later caused the Twin Towers to fail. The plane hit at a high velocity of 500-600 mph and you're telling me structural damage didn't cause the buildings to collapse. So that would mean fire was to blame but that's impossible because no building ever collapsed due to fire. The official cause was that the plane knocked out floors in both Towers causing a major problem because with missing floors the loads above transfer to the outer columns and that wasn't good at all. Why? Well because the external wall buckled due to the missing floors and the Tower came apart causing the collapse to occur. The fire wasn't the main cause. It was interesting how the Towers remained standing for an hour because the Towers were designed to take an airplane hitting it but no one could have predicted the after effects. So to sum up it was structural damage and fire that caused the Towers to collapse not just fire!

Metsfan left the same " pics soon " message on the 123 washington st thread, and just told him if he has the pics then show them, dont post all the time about it and never doing it. It's freaking old now, and i'm sure we are all quite sick of reading it.

Metsfan left the same " pics soon " message on the 123 washington st thread, and just told him if he has the pics then show them, dont post all the time about it and never doing it. It's freaking old now, and i'm sure we are all quite sick of reading it.

add beekman tower to your list too :ohno:

Actually RKOwens the impact from the airplane did cause structural damage which later caused the Twin Towers to fail. The plane hit at a high velocity of 500-600 mph and you're telling me structural damage didn't cause the buildings to collapse. So that would mean fire was to blame but that's impossible because no building ever collapsed due to fire. The official cause was that the plane knocked out floors in both Towers causing a major problem because with missing floors the loads above transfer to the outer columns and that wasn't good at all. Why? Well because the external wall buckled due to the missing floors and the Tower came apart causing the collapse to occur. The fire wasn't the main cause. It was interesting how the Towers remained standing for an hour because the Towers were designed to take an airplane hitting it but no one could have predicted the after effects. So to sum up it was structural damage and fire that caused the Towers to collapse not just fire!

I'm hoping this will be the last thing I have to say about this. The final NIST report (the official report, released in 2005) concluded that three factors were responsible for the collapse of the towers: (1) immediate structural damage following the plane impacts, (2) the loss of the fireproofing, and (3) the fires. If any one of these factors were removed from the equation, the towers wouldn't have collapsed. Your final sentence is 100% correct. You may have misunderstood me before, or maybe I worded it in a confusing way. The damage DID play a significant role: with no damage, it wouldn't have collapsed, but with damage and no fires it wouldn't have collapsed either. Or if the fireproofing remained intact it wouldn't have collapsed. It was the combination of all three. The fires were the final factor that caused collapse. If you want to learn more, the NIST report is 10,000 pages but the executive summary (available in PDF) is only like 280 pages.

As far as no building ever collapsing from fire, untrue. Every year hundreds of steel-framed buildings collapse from fire. Look at Kader Toy Factory. It's true that no SKYSCRAPER has ever collapsed from fire, even though there have been dozens of skyscraper fires, but how many of these skyscrapers ever had a hijacked 767 crash into it? Remember, NIST concluded that, no plane damage and just regular office fires, no collapse. And, hopefully that cleared up any lingering confusion, now let's move on. Okay! :cheers:

I wasn't expecting my original statment to cause such a "firestorm"! Yes my intent was to comment on the resulting hieght of the pile, not the actual cause, as a couple posters have pointed out. That said, has anyone here ever viewed the impact of the plane into the south tower in slow motion? It appears that the jet literally "melts" into the building, like Superman walking thru a wall. I'm sure some structural damage resulted, but the building was so much more solid, relative to the plane, that it appeared the jet got shredded like cheese going thru a grater. The amount of damage at the actual point of impact was remarkably small, I thought. It was the extremely hot fire, from burning fuel, that finally brought the towers down.

We haven't had any up dates in a while any pics from our buddies at SSP. Is the any more new on the glass do they a new timeline

I think they're finally setting up the forms for the B2 level in the far northwest corner. If I remember correctly they want to pour that before they pour the north core again.

Looks like the Fulton St steel is finished. I wonder who'll get to use that for staging when they get it covered.

Does anyone knows when will it be finished this Supertall?


It is a nice Buliding, i love its structure ant the design.

Cheers.

Looks like the Fulton St steel is finished. I wonder who'll get to use that for staging when they get it covered.

half of it is finished :)

Does anyone knows when will it be finished this Supertall?


It is a nice Buliding, i love its structure ant the design.

Cheers.

here is detailed timeline

http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/milestones.html

pouring is now taking place at the north side:banana::banana:

I'm hoping this will be the last thing I have to say about this. The final NIST report (the official report, released in 2005) concluded that three factors were responsible for the collapse of the towers: (1) immediate structural damage following the plane impacts, (2) the loss of the fireproofing, and (3) the fires. If any one of these factors were removed from the equation, the towers wouldn't have collapsed. Your final sentence is 100% correct. You may have misunderstood me before, or maybe I worded it in a confusing way. The damage DID play a significant role: with no damage, it wouldn't have collapsed, but with damage and no fires it wouldn't have collapsed either. Or if the fireproofing remained intact it wouldn't have collapsed. It was the combination of all three. The fires were the final factor that caused collapse. If you want to learn more, the NIST report is 10,000 pages but the executive summary (available in PDF) is only like 280 pages.

As far as no building ever collapsing from fire, untrue. Every year hundreds of steel-framed buildings collapse from fire. Look at Kader Toy Factory. It's true that no SKYSCRAPER has ever collapsed from fire, even though there have been dozens of skyscraper fires, but how many of these skyscrapers ever had a hijacked 767 crash into it? Remember, NIST concluded that, no plane damage and just regular office fires, no collapse. And, hopefully that cleared up any lingering confusion, now let's move on. Okay! :cheers:

Well RKOwens I do admitt I was confused at what you were getting at because it just seemed as if you blamed the fire as the cause. I have read the NIST report and it is pretty long. I have heard of the Kader Toy Factory fire in 1993. That was a terrible fire, pretty much like the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire. I have seen your videos on you tube because you have the same name there as you do here except its rkowens4 lol. I admire your work to shut down these 9/11 Truth morons. Anyway back to the Freedom Tower topic.

Originally Posted by Nomadd22 View Post
Looks like the Fulton St steel is finished. I wonder who'll get to use that for staging when they get it covered.

"half of it is finished"

It looks about like a 25' span and I thought that's all Fulton was going to be.

It looks about like a 25' span and I thought that's all Fulton was going to be.

Zen and NYatKnight (two people involved in the project and know what they're talking about) have said that the steel going up over Fulton Street is only temporary, to allow for a service road and will eventually be dismantled. The actual Fulton Street will probably be wider and probably even located a little further to the south (allowing for a sidewalk in front of the Freedom Tower).

A while back I did a pixel analysis of the Fulton Street location in a super hi-res overhead photo, comparing the pixels to the known width of the Freedom Tower (200 feet) and calculated that there will be exactly 72 feet between the southern edge of the tower and the northern edge of the North pool (going by the center of the NT's columns). Since the NT pool is 5 feet shorter on each side, that's 77 feet. The PANYNJ October report says that the NT pool will be 25 feet from Fulton Street. This leaves 52 feet for Fulton Street and the Freedom Tower's southern sidewalk. My guess is Fulton Street will be about 32 feet wide, and the FT sidewalk will be about 20 feet wide. (Yes, this is the trivial, minute stuff about this project I can't help but try to figure out. :lol:)

Thanks RK. That service road oughta really help logistics around the construction area. 32 feet is about minimum to allow a taxi to stop without blocking traffic.

No. The final NIST report on the collapse is 10,000 pages on the Twin Towers and about 780 pages for WTC7, but if you want a very, very brief summary on why the buildings collapsed, here goes. Nothing melted. The fires in the towers reached 1832 degrees F. Structural steel loses 50% of its strength at 1100 degrees F and about 90% of its strength at 1832 degrees F, and the location of the columns did have a lot to do with why it collapsed. The towers had to collapse, they couldn't have possibly remained standing. NIST concluded that if there was no damage from the planes and there were only the fires, regardless of fireproofing, the towers wouldn't have collapsed; other engineers argue that the towers would have collapsed regardless of whether there was any damage from the planes.

WTC7's fireproofing did its job well and kept the steel from reaching temps any higher than about 400 degrees F (don't remember exact temp), which is why it remained standing for 7 hours and allowed everyone to evacuate before it finally did collapse. Still, 400 degrees was enough for key steel beams to experience thermal expansion and lead to structural failure. Again, nothing melted. Freedom Tower will be much stronger because it has a concrete core and concrete-coated external columns, which withstands fire much better. The Freedom Tower will be the safest building (from fire) in the world. (Off topic? :nuts:)

You can believe that story...or believe the more logical one which is not usually talked about...but anyways...Lets go Freedom tower!

^^ Everyone has a difference of opinion and what is logical to you may not be to the next person.

Can we get back on topic about the construction?

Looks like the MTVA deal might be dead, at the very least this could involve a re-design of the top of the tower and the communications mast.

Article in the NY Observer 4-7-09.

http://www.observer.com/2009/real-estate/signal-trouble-freedom-tower

^^ time for the top to evolve again.

They've started moving construction trailers off of Vesey and onto the B2 slab. I guess they've started the process of clearing stuff out so they can dismantle the Vesey overhang.

You can believe that story...or believe the more logical one which is not usually talked about...but anyways...Lets go Freedom tower!

You mean the more logical story that having a steel building lose over half of its strength (90% in some areas) from fire wasn't enough to cause structural failure, and therefore a team of hundreds of conspirators must have been able sneak in and planted thousands of explosives on every floor, and on the morning of 9/11 not one of 50,000 office workers noticed them and that these were later set off even though not a single camera recorded a single explosion prior to or during the collapse? Yeah, that's the WAY more logical story. :lol: Leave now if you're going to start spreading your "9/11 truth" nonsense.

Looks like the MTVA deal might be dead, at the very least this could involve a re-design of the top of the tower and the communications mast.

Article in the NY Observer 4-7-09.

http://www.observer.com/2009/real-es...-freedom-tower

Might this be good news for an outdoor observation deck on the roof???

^^ time for the top to evolve again.

the spire and top will still be the same there will just be no communication antennas, yet. im sure that after the construction it will be attached. much like they did with the willis tower.

North core,April 08.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050125.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050128.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050130.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050131.jpg

Thanks for the pics jwalas. All that re-bar swaying in the wind is actually quite beautyful. (was over there monday)

jwalas, I love you (in a very heterosexual way). your pictures are always up to date, posted on the same day taken! thanks! :cheers:

In the second picture, it seems they've closed the forms on the east side of the north core. In the same pic you can also see rebar on the B2 level. Finally, April is here and the concrete pouring can commence in full force!

The fires caused the collapse. Yes, you can look at it as the planes caused the fires so the plane caused the collapse, but it wasn't structural damage from the planes which caused collapse. (And, yes, this is off topic, so back to the Freedom Tower!)

right and wrong. the plane impacts blasted the spray-on fire proofing off the support trusses and, paired with the structural damage, set up the fate of complete failure that the fire would bring. - why do you think the south tower collapsed first, although it was hit long after the north tower?

re-reading what you said: i guess you meant the fires ultimately made the buildings collapse, which is right. i'm sure the towers would still be standing today if the planes had empty fuel tanks before hitting (a scenario i've thought about a few times before).

anyway, i'm happy to see the progress on the freedom tower's core. i can't wait to see the memorial shape up some more, along with the other towers.

I hope we'll see the north core jump this month. They gotta keep the pace up, cause it looks like 4WTC is gonna pass them later this year.

Also, any ideas when the PA could be releasing another quarterly progress report? I keep checking the PA's wtcprogress.com website in hopes it's published. Should be very interesting.

re-reading what you said: i guess you meant the fires ultimately made the buildings collapse, which is right. i'm sure the towers would still be standing today if the planes had empty fuel tanks before hitting (a scenario i've thought about a few times before).

This is exactly what I said. Also, the South Tower collapsed earlier because it was hit lower (29 floors of weight on its weakened columns, compared to only 12 in the North Tower... so more than double), Flight 175 was travelling faster and caused more immediate damage, it hit at a corner rather than dead on like Flight 11, and because it took longer for the fires in the NT to travel to the south side of the building (the side where the collapse began) rather than in the case of the South Tower, where it collapsed on the east side and fires broke out there immediately. So, there were many reasons why the South Tower collapsed in half the time as the north.

Great!

nice up date.....

It has been months since I last looked at a picture of the construction site here... and nothing's changed! Babies grow more than this has in the same space of time! :|

It has been months since I last looked at a picture of the construction site here... and nothing's changed! Babies grow more than this has in the same space of time! :|

go away noob :ohno:

What lucky project will be the target of the negative posters when 1WTC/Freedom Tower begins to rise quickly?

The process is so slow...

Someone call the CDC; stupid is contagious.

Progress is slow, thats not an opinion thats a fact. Theres no point in being rude for someone telling what he sees.

Yes they are making progress, yes they are doing a lot of work, and yes its very complicated... but that still doesn't change the fact that progress on the tower is going slow, you dont have to be an expert to see its not growing.

Thanks for the pics jwalas. All that re-bar swaying in the wind is actually quite beautyful. (was over there monday)

Just had a picture in my head of Zen writing poetry for his girlfriend, and getting some very strange looks.

For those who complain about the speed progress:

WTC1:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r48/Athinaios/compare3.jpg

WTC site:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r48/Athinaios/compare1.jpg

Do you still claim there's no progress? :|

how many brikers are working on this construction? i think it is just 5!



too slow!

For those who complain about the speed progress:

WTC1:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r48/Athinaios/compare3.jpg

WTC site:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r48/Athinaios/compare1.jpg

Do you still claim there's no progress? :|

the freedom tower almost had no progress durring the last 6 months... :ohno:

Progress is slow, thats not an opinion thats a fact. Theres no point in being rude for someone telling what he sees.What's rude is making the same unconstructive comment a hundred other people have made in the couple hundred pages of this thread. The most time-consuming parts of the project are often not the most visually-impressive parts. Even with that being said, months ago construction of the first memorial pool had just barely begun, and the foundation work for the Freedom Tower was several stories below ground level. Now the Freedom Tower is over 100 feet high, and the foundation work is only one floor away from ground level -- despite being built over a continuously operating subway line that creates vibrations which greatly slow down progress.

Construction has been going rather slow, Freedom’s been at about the same stage for a month and a half now. The memorial, on the other hand, has been flying along from day one. But it's disappointing, there still is not much to show on the WTC site. Tower 4 is coming along, but I’m guessing it won't be above ground until next year...I assume Freedom Tower will go faster once it gets above ground. I understand there is a lot of work that has to be done underground.

Do you still claim there's no progress?
No one claims theres no progress and the only people complaining are those who say "stop saying theres no progress". If people didn't have a reason to think its going slow they wouldn't say it all the time. So are you saying all those people ar blind and lying?


Also this is a topic about the Freedom Tower, not the subway, memorial pool or any other tower, and as someone already mentioned the Freedom Tower almost hasen't grow in 6 months and that's a fact you can't deny. Is it so strange that people say its going slow? Or do you claim its going fast? lol!


I understand why things are going slow and I understand it's frustrating to see people say that all the time but for me this fanboyism is getting even more frustrating all the time.
If this scraper was being build in Dubai for example, all you people would claim its going slow, he'll I would even expect some people to claim it's on hold...

you guys are the reason people hate visiting this thread. cant go 2 days without some dumbass troll about how slow this is and sparking up a huge argument. normally i wouldn't call you a dumbass just because you think its slow, but you compared this to the construction speed in Dubai. go lurk some more.

you guys are the reason people hate visiting this thread. cant go 2 days without some dumbass troll about how slow this is and sparking up a huge argument. normally i wouldn't call you a dumbass just because you think its slow, but you compared this to the construction speed in Dubai. go lurk some more.

If you want people to stop making these kinds of comments (which have not come up every two days, it's been months since the last flair up) write a letter to the Port Authority asking them why we haven's seen that much progress, or to release pictures of what they've been doing, the last few months. You're from NYC. People want to see progress. I'm sure there has been progress underground, but we haven't seen or heard anything that shows what they've accomplished. Perhaps for security reasons, who knows. You could find that out. The Port Authority should really release a list of what they're doing week to week, with a project like this, to assure everyone that work is getting done.

you guys are the reason people hate visiting this thread. cant go 2 days without some dumbass troll about how slow this is and sparking up a huge argument. normally i wouldn't call you a dumbass just because you think its slow, but you compared this to the construction speed in Dubai. go lurk some more.

I'm not comparing it with Dubai and the fact that you think I'm doing that shows you are not even trying to understand what people are saying. That’s what I call fanboyism and this makes the whole discussion pointless.
And to be clear, I don’t really care that much about Dubai scrapers, I’m just trying to make a point, but you are too protective about anything NYC related to even see that.

Calling me a dumbass is not going to make your point stronger, on the contrary.
It just shows you can’t take any criticism and you are not open for a friendly and serious discussion. How can you expect anything good to come from such remarks and such an attidude agains other people with a different opinion?


All I’m saying is there’s no point in being rude against people(and your last post clearly showed what I mean with that) who say things are going slow, because clearly they are not going fast. If people don’t have a reason to claim things they won’t do so.
End of discussion!

Just got an update from the Port Authority:
More than half the steel in place for National September 11 Memorial & Museum. For details, visit www.wtcprogress.com.
Glad that the contruction at the memorial runs quickly.:)

So are you saying all those people ar blind and lying?


Or do you claim its going fast? lol!


I haven't said they are blind or lying, but there are people who actually don't get that there is a lot to do underground as Onn said. It's a HUGE project and FT is supposed to be the strongest skyscraper ever. Its complicated and whats more - they changed the project many, many times...
I saw that before 9/11 '08 the progress was veeeeeeryyy slow, but after it, it begins to rise a little bit faster than earlier - especially memorial site.
And I hope for all of us in the nearest future to see a really faster progress :cheers:
EOT.

Maybe when the weather improves things will pick up.

It's true that it's taking a long long time to get this building started and seems almost as long to get it built. I think they should change the name to the Century Tower because it probably won't be finished til Sept 11th 2101.

BTW I look at this site about once a month and I'm consistently amazed at how little gets accomplished. How embarassing.

Mods, do something...I'm sick of reading the comments and arguments about slow progress every 10 pages...:ohno:

Well, at least it's going faster than the Chicago Spire. At least neither WTC1 nor the memorial/museum have been affected by the credit crisis. At least the memorial is about three weeks ahead of schedule and is still on track to open for the 10th anniversary.

Mods, do something...I'm sick of reading the comments and arguments about slow progress every 10 pages...:ohno:

I think they have a right to express their opinion... it's not exactly spamming. But for those who are saying things are going too slow, remember also that for the past 5 months, it's been impossible for them to pour concrete since it was too cold and it would just freeze. Now that the weather has finally warmed up, we've seen huge amounts of concrete pouring in the past few weeks and this can now continue at full steam. Even when next winter comes around and they have to slow on the concrete again, the building will at least be at a point in construction where they can continue to work on the steel frame. So, even though it's been said, I'll say it again... the days of snail-pace construction are over. As is evident from the past few weeks (and past few months with the memorial), construction is progressing rapidly. Now stop complaining about the past.

back to topic....

For those who live in or near NYC looks like there will be quaterly update meeting:
WTC Redevelopment Committee

Monday, April 13
6pm

Assemblymember Sheldon Silver's Office, 250 Broadway, Assembly Hearing Room, 19th Floor

Agenda
1)Update by Port Authority and Silverstein Properties
2)Lower Manhattan Development Corporation Update by Mike Murphy, Press Secretary

My guess PDF file will be posted on website on next day.

ground broke 3 years ago. it is slow. that's it. no excuses why (complexity underground blah blah)--bottom line, it's slow. I wish I could stop myself from constantly checking. It is quite torturous.
If you want to see some old WTC footage, 'King Kong' was on TV last night. The 1976 version with Jeff Daniels. Instead of climbing the ESB, he climbed one of the towers. cheesy effects, but good footage, nonetheless.

Just had a picture in my head of Zen writing poetry for his girlfriend, and getting some very strange looks.


My wife would kill me if I wrote poetry for my girlfriend !!:lol:

Anyway, for all the "slow moaners" things are going to get interesting soon. Vesey St. is being cleared so the overhang can be removed. The temporary access road is going to be finished soon. The 48 foot sections of the perimeter columns are ready to go (they well bring the height near the 3rd floor). The north half of the core is going to catch up as quickly as the cement cures. (expect it to rise much faster than the south half did.)

The most time consuming and complex parts of construction are nearly over.