back to topic....

For those who live in or near NYC looks like there will be quaterly update meeting:
WTC Redevelopment Committee

Monday, April 13
6pm

Assemblymember Sheldon Silver's Office, 250 Broadway, Assembly Hearing Room, 19th Floor

Agenda
1)Update by Port Authority and Silverstein Properties
2)Lower Manhattan Development Corporation Update by Mike Murphy, Press Secretary

My guess PDF file will be posted on website on next day.It's taking place in Shelly Silver's office, so I would count on it. He's the most secretive state leader in NY history.

I do think we'll be getting the Q1 2009 report in a couple weeks, though.

My wife would kill me if I wrote poetry for my girlfriend !!:lol:

Anyway, for all the "slow moaners" things are going to get interesting soon. Vesey St. is being cleared so the overhang can be removed. The temporary access road is going to be finished soon. The 48 foot sections of the perimeter columns are ready to go (they well bring the height near the 3rd floor). The north half of the core is going to catch up as quickly as the cement cures. (expect it to rise much faster than the south half did.)

The most time consuming and complex parts of construction are nearly over.

Zen, do you think the 48 foot perimeter sections will be up by this September 11th (next anniversary)? Do you have any timeline as to when they will go up?

Where those head busting mods at their suppose to keep the lames out of this thread. I'm sure they'll lock it up, we'll come back in a week and it will grow like it did last time.
There no point in fighting with the one who are saying its slow. You know they have to visit once or twice every two years.

They'll say its slow to the spire is finish. It could have open last year and that would have been to slow for them.

Ps metfan its past friday wheres my pictures?

Where those head busting mods at their suppose to keep the lames out of this thread. I'm sure they'll lock it up, we'll come back in a week and it will grow like it did last time.
There no point in fighting with the one who are saying its slow. You know they have to visit once or twice every two years.

They'll say its slow to the spire is finish. It could have open last year and that would have been to slow for them.

Ps metfan its past friday wheres my pictures?

yeah I'm waiting for pictures in every NY thread :lol:

EarthCam:
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/chris-the-007/jpg.jpg

very slow...

Here we go again...

very slow...

But enough about you.

:ohno:

Zen, do you think the 48 foot perimeter sections will be up by this September 11th (next anniversary)? Do you have any timeline as to when they will go up?

I would expect some of them to start going up as early as next month, probably on the south side first. The Fulton St. access road has to be finished first, in my opinion, becouse I don't think the cranes can lift them from Vesey St. and swing them all the way to the south side.

On the other hand, they may bring in a mobile crane to do some of the column placement.

I don't think the cranes can lift them from Vesey St. and swing them all the way to the south side.
Actually the ones in the corners would be the hardest for the tower cranes to place because they are the furthest reach. The ones on either side are the same distance from the crane so as long as they can pick them up they shouldn't have an issue placing them. I do agree of beans will be extremely heavy and a possible problem for a tower crane to pick up.

I would expect some of them to start going up as early as next month, probably on the south side first. The Fulton St. access road has to be finished first, in my opinion, becouse I don't think the cranes can lift them from Vesey St. and swing them all the way to the south side.

On the other hand, they may bring in a mobile crane to do some of the column placement.

I was just working on a cracked turntable last month because some nitwit operator didn't understand how much the capacity went down when the boom was horizontal.
I don't suppose they'd ever try a crane to crane handoff from Vessey? It doesn't look that much further away from the tower crane than the southeast corner. Or maybe raise it from an angle with a tagline.

Zen, how many days does the B2 slab over the PATH tracks have to cure before work over those tracks can take place with the third rail active?

I guess I never mentioned that BOTH cranes must lift the column sections TOGETHER using a spreader beam. They are far too heavy for one crane to lift. Remember the up-side down Y on the north east corner, that section was almost beyond the cap. of both cranes combined.

Basincreek, the B3 slab is the protection slab (really to protect the tower from bombs etc. on a PATH train) I think 28 days is enough cure time for it to reach the required strength. It's being poured from east to west and I can't tell if it's even finished. Could somebody just walk up to the edge and take a pic, I'll pay your bail.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35124796@N04/3432166173/in/photostream/

Here's a Joe Woolhead photo that captures exactly what I mean. Notice that both tower cranes are lifting the section of column. The north crane has a shorter boom than the south crane, that's also a factor.

I speculate they will start working above it well before 28 days. That may be required for it to reach its design specification but it will be sufficiently strong to allow work to progress well before that. The curing can continue as other work goes on.

Wish I'd seen Zen's photostream earlier. I might have sounded a tiny bit less dumb in some of my posts.
Either the woman in the sketches is two feet tall, or those are some hellacious beams. I can see why there weren't too many mills in the world that could make them.
They're going to be able to use this building as a lift point for lower Manhattan when they're done.

[QUOTE=Basincreek, the B3 slab is the protection slab (really to protect the tower from bombs etc. on a PATH train) I think 28 days is enough cure time for it to reach the required strength. [/QUOTE]

I am not familiar with the details of this project, but if they can shore the B3 slab to support it from below, they only have to wait three days before building the form work to pour the slab above. From the sound of it though, they may not be able to do that b/c it might interfere with the trains below. In that case, they will probably wait 2-3 weeks before building the form work. That way the slab will nearly be at full strength.

Assuming they cant shore off the earth below, they will need 3 slabs at nearly full strength to act as a base for the tower. After that, they can shore and pour a new floor every three days. At that point, the tower will start to fly up, which I know we are all eagerly awaiting!

For those keeping score, 9 times out of 10, concrete reaches its design strength in 7-10 days. When you specify 3000 psi, that is the guaranteed minimum strength you will get. Often times, it is much stronger than that. Generally at 3 days, it has reached about 75% of its design strength and since there is relatively no live load on the slab, they can build the form work for the next floor without overloading the slab.

Sorry, I don't come out of engineering mode on the weekends and since my wife generally tunes me out when i talk about this stuff, this is my only outlet!

I've been wondering about this formwork (in the photo below) going up for a couple weeks now. At first I thought it was just an extension of the B1 floor slab, extending westward from the B1 slab already up on the eastern side. The more I look at it, the less sure I am, and for two reasons. First, there isn't supposed to EXIST a B1 level towards the western side of the Freedom Tower, due to this being the location of the observation deck lobby. Second, if you look closely at the photo, it seems that this formwork is above the B1 slab already in place east of it. Also, it's hard to tell exactly from this angle but it seems that the formwork connects to the core at the location where the lobby would be (the horizontal line in the middle of the visible part of the core marks the lobby level). Could this be the formwork for the lobby?

As I said, it's hard to tell for sure from the webcam. Would anyone who lives in the area mind taking a picture from the West Street footbridge of that area, so we can tell for sure???

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3630/3434192089_328fb2c4a4_o.jpg

I've been wondering about this formwork (in the photo below) going up for a couple weeks now. At first I thought it was just an extension of the B1 floor slab, extending westward from the B1 slab already up on the eastern side. The more I look at it, the less sure I am, and for two reasons. First, there isn't supposed to EXIST a B1 level towards the western side of the Freedom Tower, due to this being the location of the observation deck lobby. Second, if you look closely at the photo, it seems that this formwork is above the B1 slab already in place east of it. Also, it's hard to tell exactly from this angle but it seems that the formwork connects to the core at the location where the lobby would be (the horizontal line in the middle of the visible part of the core marks the lobby level). Could this be the formwork for the lobby?

As I said, it's hard to tell for sure from the webcam. Would anyone who lives in the area mind taking a picture from the West Street footbridge of that area, so we can tell for sure???

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3630/3434192089_328fb2c4a4_o.jpg

That formwork is at street level. I passed by the site yesterday and it looks to be at street level forming the lobby floor. I'm sure Zensteeldude knows what it is because I'm not 100% sure but I'm assuming it's forming the lobby floor.

One more floor. Looking good if a bit slow.

Some of you may have seen my website.

http://howtodaylooksgroundzero.blogspot.com

Just wanted to let you know I've updated the time-lapse video, it now shows construction progress from last August to present.

Enjoy! Let me know if the rate of progress is satisfactory ;)

Yes, it is formwork for the ground floor slab and supporting concrete beams. Aside from a small hallway conecting the core to stair G there is no B1 slab in that area.

Some of you may have seen my website.

http://howtodaylooksgroundzero.blogspot.com

Just wanted to let you know I've updated the time-lapse video, it now shows construction progress from last August to present.

Enjoy! Let me know if the rate of progress is satisfactory ;)

I saved the new tipe-lapse video to my desktop this morning and have been watching it repeatedly! Very awesome. Great music too. Thanks for the video, and thanks for your website overall!

And it's great to hear they've finally reached the lobby level. I just wish we had some decent photographs of this monumental milestone.

I saved the new tipe-lapse video to my desktop this morning and have been watching it repeatedly! Very awesome. Great music too. Thanks for the video, and thanks for your website overall!

And it's great to hear they've finally reached the lobby level. I just wish we had some decent photographs of this monumental milestone.

Great video! Now every time someone gets on here and bangs on about how "slow progress is" we should just post the link for that video and send em away!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3367/3435755793_68a022c3cd_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3398/3436564230_04f533161e_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3375/3436569388_a52608f133.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3570/3435770153_20a606327c_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3627/3435774881_fbe668af7c_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3331/3435779699_b157d366b8.jpg

so slowwwww lol.

so slowwwww lol.

+1
But its an awesome design. Love the fountains in front. The design just rocks :rock:

Dubai can use slave labor - not NY.

so slowwwww lol.
Be patient; I hope soon, especially when the north core reach the level of the south (at this moment by those photos), at the the same time they shoold probably add floors... and so on

Great pics! One question. What's up with the wire connecting to the column second nearest to the foreground? Seems kinda odd.

Great pics! One question. What's up with the wire connecting to the column second nearest to the foreground? Seems kinda odd.

the other end was attached to the north core crane. i assume they wanted to lock it down over the Easter holiday.

hi.... :) I'm italian (from Turin) but I love new york.... then sometimes I visit this thread... I have a question for you.... I already pray you to forgive me for my english and probably for the weakness of my question...

why since 2001 the work is progressing so slowly?...

Great video! Now every time someone gets on here and bangs on about how "slow progress is" we should just post the link for that video and send em away!


You really think this is excellent progress? It's progress but it is very slow progress. We're nearly 3 years into the construction of this Tower and it is barely off the ground. Sure the framework for the South Core is at 105 feet but there is much more to go. When the floors start rising that is when I'll say there is progress. Until then the building is just starting as they need to finish the underground before the building can rise to its full height.

I wish ppl would stop complaining about its speed! Yes its taking a while - no sh*t sherlock but i just think, thank god its going ahead, its seems that the entire project and site has had everything thrown at it and has overcome so many obstacles! Nobody needs to explain the history behind this building, so its pretty obvious that its politically sensitive. I know your expressing your opinion but tbh if everyone is saying the same thing it clogs up the thread, a negative attitude isn't going to speed things up now! So yeah its taking its time but i think this is truly going to be magnificent when completed, im waited with baited breath but its important to remember that good things come to those who wait and i think it will make this seem even better when its finally done! Just my two cents but i cant wait for this to be done - but i'll have too :D

Lovely design. I'm looking forward to seeing this building progress throughout the spring and summer.

Any realistic prediction so as to when they are going to finish? There must be a schedule they have to comply with, right?

hi.... :) I'm italian (from Turin) but I love new york.... then sometimes I visit this thread... I have a question for you.... I already pray you to forgive me for my english and probably for the weakness of my question...

why since 2001 the work is progressing so slowly?...

The reason is that the site of the World Trade Center is very complex. Supertall skyscrapers do not generally get built in small spaces, like in New York, anywhere else in the world. They have to deal with things like the subway, upgrading of 100 year old utilizes, and be mindful of the buildings and people around the site. New York is very dense, any construction is under very strict rules so no one gets hurt.

Also, work on the Freedom Tower did not really start until late 2006. Part of problem was politically with New York City, other issues involved money. Most of all the original Freedom Tower design was determined not safe enough by police in a post 9/11 world. The design of the Freedom Tower had to be changed, which took time. In addition, remains of victims of the 9/11 attacks continued to be found on the site, even after construction of the Freedom Tower started. Work had to be stopped to search the WTC site for more remains, make sure they had found them all, a few times.

Work on the tower is progressing. But much work has to be done underground too. They are not simply building a skyscraper basement. There are shops going in under the Freedom Tower, a subway station, and passageways leading to the rest of the WTC site. While doing all that, they have to be mindful of security. The concrete being used in the Freedom Tower construction is the strongest in New York, and possibly stronger than in any other supertall skyscraper being built in the world. In fact, they had to remove some of the newly poured concrete off the foundations during the beginning of the project, because it did not meet stress tests; then repour that section again. That took up about a month worth of time.

Any realistic prediction so as to when they are going to finish? There must be a schedule they have to comply with, right?

The only firm date is that the memorial will be open by 9/11/11. Anything other than that is up in the air. Freedom Tower is expected to top out between October-December 2011, opening in late 2013. Also, I was thinking today that it would be cool if they did get a few months ahead of schedule and were able to have the topping out of the Freedom Tower on July 4th, 2011, appropriate for a tower that will be 1776 feet tall.

The only firm date is that the memorial will be open by 9/11/11. Anything other than that is up in the air. Freedom Tower is expected to top out between October-December 2011, opening in late 2013. Also, I was thinking today that it would be cool if they did get a few months ahead of schedule and were able to have the topping out of the Freedom Tower on July 4th, 2011, appropriate for a tower that will be 1776 feet tall.

Or just have the official opening on July 4th 2012 or 2013 or 2014...or whenever.

http://www.wtc.com/uploads/images/712x534/14_40_1-WTC-April-2009.jpg

http://www.wtc.com/

I know when its going to open. When its done

I know when its going to open. When its done

u r da god :dance: :lol:


Uploaded by jag9889 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jag9889/3431068633/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3627/3431068633_950bc894f5_b.jpg

http://www.wtc.com/uploads/images/712x534/14_40_1-WTC-April-2009.jpg

http://www.wtc.com/

Ah, this picture brings back memories of my splendid visit to WTC7. Those of you who live in NYC don't realize how lucky you have it, to be able to visit the WTC anytime you want. Also, anyone still complaining about the slow progress, compare this picture to one I took from the same location last September 10th (2008)...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2875537955_d2ee38f0b7_b.jpg

And I know when it's going to top out: when it tops out... which won't be that long compared to when it will open.

hi.... :) I'm italian (from Turin) but I love new york.... then sometimes I visit this thread... I have a question for you.... I already pray you to forgive me for my english and probably for the weakness of my question...

why since 2001 the work is progressing so slowly?...

Your English is not bad :)

The short answer is "politics." There are many different groups that want different things for the site: many of the families of people who died at the WTC wanted a very large memorial - more than a few wanted the site to remain empty of buildings as a memorial. The owners of the land want to build as much office space as possible to make a profit. Politicians wanted to take credit for arranging deals for impractical designs, sometimes working around democratic processes put in place. Different political factions wanted to make the site into a nationalistic monument, or a center for global peace and understanding. For years different sides spent god-knows-how-many dollars drawing up plans and revising plans to make various groups happy.

It's not like most building sites in the U.S. where all you have to do is make the zoning board happy, pay for permits and get the banks to loan you the money to build a tower. Everyone has their own idea for what they want to see at Ground Zero, and so it's not just a private project - it's a national monument, and a national shame that so many sides fought while the site lay empty for 7 years.

A second, but important answer is "money." The original buildings were insured, and there was a court case about how much the owners would receive. They've had to find enough tenants to lease office space so that the project will make money (and leasing upper-floor space in a terrorist target can be a tricky sale). Concrete and steel prices have been very high for years. And while I'm sure the developer has arranged a line of credit in advance, if the project runs over budget it could be very tricky to get cash to pay for the construction with the banking crisis.

I don't care how slow its going. I only bitch when its been months and don't see anything. Slow is much better then being on hold. And slow means they're taking their time. And not rushing through, They're working hard to give us the best skyscraper on the planet. Perfection takes time thats all I can really say.

everyone wants to see the great American construction machine pump out this building at better than China speed... I still havent seen a picture with 100 workers getting things done... its such a shy start... no doubt its going to be amazing once it gets going

i think it would be really sad if this tower isnt ready by september of 2011, 10 years is too long to wait

everyone wants to see the great American construction machine pump out this building at better than China speed... I still havent seen a picture with 100 workers getting things done... its such a shy start... no doubt its going to be amazing once it gets going

i think it would be really sad if this tower isnt ready by september of 2011, 10 years is too long to wait

It's not going to be ready by 2011, so start being sad ( if you like being sad for so small a reason).
And no, I don't want to see it go as fast as a chinese construction, because it may compromise the construction itself.
And here, I'd like to state my answer to some of the "too slow"ers that infect this forum:
What unit do you use to judge what is "slow" and what is "fast" construction?
Because, without talking about the uniqueness of the site of construction (that has been stated way too many times to discuss about it again) and reasons that could influence it's speed (location, bureaucracy and so on) there is the arrogance of judging other people's work, while the same people that criticize have no competence whatsoever on what they are criticizing.
I'm only a civil engineering student, and even so I wouldn't dream of having the arrogance to accuse an organization (intended as group of individuals and system) of which I know barely nothing about,in the mean time knowing just few of the parameters that may influence ANY construction (let alone this one). Other than that, I wonder what makes you think that the people that are directly linked to the managing of this project (Larry Silverstein first of all) do not desire this tower to be finished as soon as possible (the sooner the tower is completed, the sooner the money can flow back from the investments and the sooner there can be profit in relationship to the lifetime of the structure, for example). Please enlighten me, because I'm curious to know the psychology behind this ( sadly very similar to the psychology behind the believers of the conspiracy theories, but this is not the appropriate place to discuss it).

At last!!! Some importent progress is now visible! :banana:


I hope that the tower will rise some levels soon!

You mean the more logical story that having a steel building lose over half of its strength (90% in some areas) from fire wasn't enough to cause structural failure, and therefore a team of hundreds of conspirators must have been able sneak in and planted thousands of explosives on every floor, and on the morning of 9/11 not one of 50,000 office workers noticed them and that these were later set off even though not a single camera recorded a single explosion prior to or during the collapse? Yeah, that's the WAY more logical story. :lol: Leave now if you're going to start spreading your "9/11 truth" nonsense.



Might this be good news for an outdoor observation deck on the roof???

actually, i was talking about the wtc7...that collapsed at 5pm that day because of "fire and structural damage" suffered from the collapse of the twin towers....but i fail to understand, why would the wtc 7 be the only one that collapses when all the other towers that sorrounded the wtc complex are still up?

It's kind of strange that they built the Empire State Building in one year but WTC takes almost a decade to even get to first base...

Well, well. Some day it will be done. I hope.

actually, i was talking about the wtc7...that collapsed at 5pm that day because of "fire and structural damage" suffered from the collapse of the twin towers....but i fail to understand, why would the wtc 7 be the only one that collapses when all the other towers that sorrounded the wtc complex are still up?

A number of reasons. First things first, the final report concluded that the damage suffered from the collapse of WTC1 was negligible and had no effect on the eventual collapse (which was their one of their initial hypotheses). The reason it, and no other tall buildings, collapsed is simple: None of the other buildings CAUGHT ON FIRE. The World Financial Center had some damage, but it didn't catch fire. The Deutsche Bank Building also had damage, but it only caught fire in the basement and this was quickly put out by the FDNY. WTC7's water main was taken out by the collapse of the Twin Towers, so fires that started out small and could have probably been extinguished by sprinklers or fire hoses were allowed to grow out of control, over several hours, eventually becoming what many FDNY chiefs said was the worst building fire they'd ever seen in their entire careers. Also, WTC5's floors that were on fire DID collapse (over 5 floors), but the building was more horizontal so the collapse didn't spread to take out the rest of the building... much like the section of the Pentagon that later collapsed, it didn't take out the rest of the Pentagon. WTC7 was vertical.

It's kind of strange that they built the Empire State Building in one year but WTC takes almost a decade to even get to first base...

They're not just building an Empire State Building, they're building 5 or 6 of them. They're also building a memorial and transportation hub all on one small site. Plus the ESB was built during the depression, when workers were willing to work under dangerous conditions. Sure, they completed the building faster this way, but it also cost the lives of (I think) about 6 workers.

ETA: Just checked Wikipedia, it was 5 workers that died.

everyone wants to see the great American construction machine pump out this building at better than China speed... I still havent seen a picture with 100 workers getting things done... its such a shy start... no doubt its going to be amazing once it gets going

i think it would be really sad if this tower isnt ready by september of 2011, 10 years is too long to wait

All I have to say is this tower better be the finest craftsmanship known to man, a work of art, and built strong enough to last 500 years. I don't want to hear about any cracked concrete floors ten years from now...:bash:

Well, it is a good sign to see steelwork finally going up. I assume this is the core? Is this tower going to be constructed of a predominantly steel frame or will it have a concrete core surrounded by a steel super structure?

If it is a concrete core then we are going to wait much longer still as I can't see a slipform structure anywhere on the site. Without a slipform, this is going to take a long time to grow. Steelwork should fly up but this is taking its time still.

As for the design of the building; from the renders I have seen, I am not overly impressed. It has the soar factor and it should look to be of fantastic quality but the actual design is nothing amazing. It's relatively featureless. The memorial looks very nice.

Well, it is a good sign to see steelwork finally going up. I assume this is the core? Is this tower going to be constructed of a predominantly steel frame or will it have a concrete core surrounded by a steel super structure?

It's going to have a concrete core and both steel and concrete will be used in the superstructure.

As for the design of the building; from the renders I have seen, I am not overly impressed. It has the soar factor and it should look to be of fantastic quality but the actual design is nothing amazing. It's relatively featureless. The memorial looks very nice.

However, sometimes simple designs turn out to be the most memorable. People said that the Sears Tower was a bunch of boxes when it went up, and today the building is legendary around the world. I think the same thing is (or will be) true for the SWFC. And who can forget 7WTC? That tower is very simple, yet very elegant. The shape of the Freedom Tower is going to reflect light unlike any other supertall you've ever seen. The cladding is also going to be rather unique. Wait and see before passing too much judgment.

It's going to have a concrete core and both steel and concrete will be used in the superstructure.

Thanks! :)

Though that has made me a little more worried about how long it will be before we see the core rise!

However, sometimes simple designs turn out to be the most memorable. People said that the Sears Tower was a bunch of boxes when it went up, and today the building is legendary around the world. I think the same thing is (or will be) true for the SWFC. And who can forget 7WTC? That tower is very simple, yet very elegant. The shape of the Freedom Tower is going to reflect light unlike any other supertall you've ever seen. The cladding is also going to be rather unique. Wait and see before passing too much judgment.

A good post, and I must agree that simple can be memorable. The advantage this tower has over the nameless supertalls in, say, Dubai is the history of the site. People will always remember this as the location of the former World Trade Centers.

I look forward to seeing the tower when it is completed. I said that I was basing my judgement on the renders that I have seen - giving me plenty of scope to change my mind once this is completed. :)

Though that has made me a little more worried about how long it will be before we see the core rise!

You and the rest of us, this is not a quick process. The concrete being poured is also the strongest of any project in New York, three times stronger than the city building codes. This adds a lot of additional work to any concrete pour. The steal has gone up relatively quickly, but the concrete pours have seemed like a methodical process. The concrete walls of this tower have a steel structure embedded into them. That's why you see in some of the pictures rebar around a steel column. This is supposed to increase the strength of the concrete.

At least this is going to be a solid building, we hope.

As for the design of the building; from the renders I have seen, I am not overly impressed. It has the soar factor and it should look to be of fantastic quality but the actual design is nothing amazing. It's relatively featureless. The memorial looks very nice.

And the original Twin Towers weren't relatively featureless? They were very simply designed, just two rectangular boxes soaring into the sky, which is why they were so beautiful and iconic. The Freedom Tower is intended to resemble a crystal or diamond turned upside down. As far as I know, there's never been a building with a similar "upside down diamond" type of design.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/74/Freedom_Tower_New.jpg/311px-Freedom_Tower_New.jpg

And the original Twin Towers weren't relatively featureless? They were very simply designed, just two rectangular boxes soaring into the sky, which is why they were so beautiful and iconic.

I was not a fan of the Twin Towers. It was only their scale that really made them iconic. Also was the fact that they were twin towers. Leave one on its own and its an architectural catastrophe. I cannot deny that they were iconic though.

The Freedom Tower is intended to resemble a crystal or diamond turned upside down. As far as I know, there's never been a building with a similar "upside down diamond" type of design.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/74/Freedom_Tower_New.jpg/311px-Freedom_Tower_New.jpg

That may well be true but it doesn't mean it is a particular special design. The scale of the building is the only thing that makes this particularly special, in my eyes. But as I say, I will wait till it is finished before passing my final judgement.

Dubai can use slave labor - not NY.

lol first time i actually laughed looking at this website

Tower 7 looks damn good and its as normal as it gets. The Freedom tower should look great peaking out every morning in NY. The 500 to 800 foot building look amazing, stick a few supertall in there and its game over. Point is the twin tower were massive And there weren't to many buildings like it at the time. Look all those sorry ugly ass skyscrapers built in the 60's. The 70's was the rebirth of the supertall.

from the rendering...this tower its not special looking...but when it finish later = it will be a great tower and great high too....

As far as I know, there's never been a building with a similar "upside down diamond" type of design.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/74/Freedom_Tower_New.jpg/311px-Freedom_Tower_New.jpg

Looks like Shanghai World Financial Centre (upside down).

It's a shame that politics and vested interests cost NY and the world something even more special than the Freedom Tower...

http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/3989/freedomtower3ze9.jpg

^^ even if that got built, one without spire would be so ugly.

^^But together they look awesome...

Maybe there is just...something...about twin towers on this site, even if not the original design....twin towers were part of New Yorks signature skyline. Bland ?......wotya talkin 'bout !
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5379/2009417002medium.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2009417002medium.jpg)

^^ even if that got built, one without spire would be so ugly.
That's your opinion, my opinion is the the spire itself is terribly ugly! In no way does it blend with the designing of the tower. It looks like (can probably is) just something stuck on top to get the desired height. :nuts:

I think that this twin design of the Freedom Tower would be awesome a perfect hommage to the original WTC.

The only negativism in this topic is from people who complain about other people who say its going slow. That it's going slow is a fact just like it's a fact that progress is being made. It's just people stating what they see, not people who want to start flamewars or hate the project or whatever... So please stop bitching about people stating facts, it's useless and they are not doing anything wrong.


They're not just building an Empire State Building, they're building 5 or 6 of them. They're also building a memorial and transportation hub all on one small site. Plus the ESB was built during the depression, when workers were willing to work under dangerous conditions. Sure, they completed the building faster this way, but it also cost the lives of (I think) about 6 workers.
Let me remind you that this is a topic about one tower, not 6, not the transportantion hub, not the memorial or any other contruction. No one claims anything about those other projects, only about the Freedom tower.

Great crystalline structure but nothing could replace the sombre glory of the original WTC towers.

Let me remind you that this is a topic about one tower, not 6, not the transportantion hub, not the memorial or any other contruction. No one claims anything about those other projects, only about the Freedom tower.

uh, the point of that post was that they have to divide their resources up among 5 towers and a memorial and transit hub, rather than just one skyscraper

it's a perfectly relevent statement

^^ even if that got built, one without spire would be so ugly.
If it possible in the near future to built the second WTC "freedom tower" type, there is no much area to built it...
http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo124/chris-the-007/spaceforsecondwtc.jpg
*earthcam*

Looks like Shanghai World Financial Centre (upside down).

Well...SWFC looks a lot fatter, 1WTC looks leaner, but I have to admit, it looks a little lacking in creativity I guess now that SWFC is finished.

Big Red (crane) is being disassembled!!!!!! Wha??? Already??? There's so much more steel that needs to go up.

how tall were the old ones ? :p

the old twin towers topped out at 1883 feet(antennas) according to Wikipedia

the old twin towers topped out at 1883 feet(antennas) according to Wikipedia

They were just antennas, not spires, so they didn't count towards the official/structural height of the Towers.

how tall were the old ones ? :p

They were each 110 stories.

One World Trade Center was 417 m / 1,368 ft tall.

Two World Trade Center was 415 m / 1,362 ft tall.

the old twin towers topped out at 1883 feet(antennas) according to Wikipedia

The original WTC1's antenna rose to 1,727 feet, not 1,883 feet. 1,883 is the height that the advocates of the Twin Towers II wanted their antenna to rise to a height of. The Freedom Tower's spire will rise to 1776 feet.

Big Red (crane) is being disassembled!!!!!! Wha??? Already??? There's so much more steel that needs to go up.

I'm confused too, maybe there's not enough space to work for this red crane, but I guess here will be a place for a new one:

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r48/Athinaios/crane-2.jpg

^^First things first, the opening you pointed out is for future servicing of the chiller plant should they need to replace any large components. The opening well be closed over with precast concrete planks that are removable.

Second, they are either re-locating one of the Liebherr LR 1300 crawler cranes to the edge of the bathtub or they are removing it from the site and another crane well be erected on the edge to continue erecting steel. By the way, those cranes cost like $2,800 a day to rent, so when they're done with em, off they go !

From the info I have they are several weeks ahead of schedule.:banana:

Getting back to the topic of this forum, forms for the ground floor slab are going up south of the core.:)

Thanks for an explanation and very good news :cheers:

Regardless of the pace the building is going through, at this present time, the priority should be progress and not speed. Here, I'd much rather see a final product that is well-thought out in every regard, as opposed to something that is fasttracked for completion and potentially risks quality control.

By the way, concrete strength was mentioned earlier, however, i didn't see mention of the strength grade(s). Any indicative idea in MPa for particular elements?

They were just antennas, not spires, so they didn't count towards the official/structural height of the Towers.

as stated

Here in the US of A we use KIPS, not MPa and if I told you such info I would have to kill you.:) But seriously, nothing has been sacrificed for speed. In fact, some of the steel used is the strongest structural steel ever made, ever !

By the way, those cranes cost like $2,800 a day to rent, so when they're done with em, off they go !
I'll bet they cost a good bit more than that. Here in Louisville a crane like that costs over $500/hr and I'm sure the costs in New York City are higher than they are here. Plus they are working longer than 8 hour days so I'm sure that crane is costing at least $5000/day.

"For the city's official marketers, New York isn't just a wounded city, but a challenged brand... and like all challenged brands, it needs... an overarching scheme to reposition itself in the American popular consciousness."
And the World consciousness, for that matter. Everyday that downtown goes w/o a new WTC complex is a day that NYC goes w/o a powerful logo.

I'll bet they cost a good bit more than that. Here in Louisville a crane like that costs over $500/hr and I'm sure the costs in New York City are higher than they are here. Plus they are working longer than 8 hour days so I'm sure that crane is costing at least $5000/day.

If your paying by the hour you're probably renting the service. If you're paying by the day you're probably just renting the hardware.

http://rebuildgroundzero.org/webcam/rgz_000.jpg

webcam is back in service, great to have a second viewpoint!

Big Red (crane) is being disassembled!!!!!! Wha??? Already??? There's so much more steel that needs to go up.

lets have moment of silence :pet:

http://rebuildgroundzero.org/webcam/rgz_000.jpg

webcam is back in service, great to have a second viewpoint!

too bad we cant see a jack $hit bc of the sun :lol:

The rebuilt World Trade Center project won't be completed and fully occupied until 2037, according to a report in The New York Daily News.

The report said a study by real estate company Cushman & Wakefield said the project centerpiece, the Port Authority's 1,776-foot Freedom Tower, won't be filled with tenants until 2019, and other structures would take even longer to build and fill. The 2037 projection would fall 36 years after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

la crisis economica| (http://www.lacrisiseconomica.net) corrupción la muela| (http://www.corrupcionlamuela.com) optimización en buscadores | (http://www.seoptimizar.com) príncipe felipe (http://www.principefelipe.org)

^^ I think that theory will probably never happen.
Ofcourse I will take some time to fill up the office space at the New WTC but that long?:nuts:
It really depents on the economic situation that New York will fase when the buildings are completed.
:rofl:

The rebuilt World Trade Center project won't be completed and fully occupied until 2037, according to a report in The New York Daily News.

The report said a study by real estate company Cushman & Wakefield said the project centerpiece, the Port Authority's 1,776-foot Freedom Tower, won't be filled with tenants until 2019, and other structures would take even longer to build and fill. The 2037 projection would fall 36 years after the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

la crisis economica| (http://www.lacrisiseconomica.net) corrupción la muela| (http://www.corrupcionlamuela.com) optimización en buscadores | (http://www.seoptimizar.com) príncipe felipe (http://www.principefelipe.org)

2037 aint too long away though

2037 aint too long away though

lol are you fucking kidding

that's light years away =(

This is FUCKING BULLSHIT! Nothing I hate worse than fucking delays. Get the fucking thing done!!!!!!!!!!

2037 aint too long away though

Wut? I'll be close to 50!:lol: And I'm still a teen...

I would have been surprised if they'd said 2020-2025... But 2037!?:nuts:

Wut? I'll be close to 50!:lol: And I'm still a teen...

I would have been surprised if they'd said 2020-2025... But 2037!?:nuts:

First things first, these articles which came out today (there are a few of them) aren't saying that the buildings wouldn't be built until 2037, they're saying that one building (Tower 3) wouldn't be fully occupied until 2037. WTC7 was built and opened in May 2006 and it still isn't fully occupied. To tourists and NYC building buffs, who cares? The building still exists, and even if the new WTC towers won't be fully occupied until years after they open, so what, they will still be built. Having said that, the report is BS. It's assuming the buildings won't be built until the economy recovers and that the economy won't recover for decades. This recession is bad, but it'll be over probably in a year or two. Also, again, the report only says that Tower 2 and 3 wouldn't be fully occupied until the 2020's and 2030's. The memorial, Freedom Tower, and Tower 4, and the transportation hub will be open no matter what on schedule. Also, I don't see how the economy would affect the Performing Arts Center, since it has nothing to do with demand for office space. Of course, Tower 7 is already done. So even if Towers 2, 3, and 5 face major delays, you'd still have over half the site done by 2014.

Lastly, remember that the Twin Towers opened in 1973, but the Marriot Hotel wasn't built until quite a few years later. WTC7 didn't open until about fifteen years later. So, even if it takes a few years longer for some buildings to be built, you'd still have a thriving World Trade Center site in 2014.

Well then I wish, whoever these idiots are, reporting this erroneous misinformation would, just get their damn stories straight. Each time I saw a report, it was to the affect, that they would not be finished until the 2030s. Is it a wonder, why there are so many false rumours running loose?! I know that the #1 tower won't be denied no matter what, but still, whoever is accountable for this misinformation needs to be better informed.

First things first, these articles which came out today (there are a few of them) aren't saying that the buildings wouldn't be built until 2037, they're saying that one building (Tower 3) wouldn't be fully occupied until 2037. WTC7 was built and opened in May 2006 and it still isn't fully occupied. To tourists and NYC building buffs, who cares? The building still exists, and even if the new WTC towers won't be fully occupied until years after they open, so what, they will still be built. Having said that, the report is BS. It's assuming the buildings won't be built until the economy recovers and that the economy won't recover for decades. This recession is bad, but it'll be over probably in a year or two. Also, again, the report only says that Tower 2 and 3 wouldn't be fully occupied until the 2020's and 2030's. The memorial, Freedom Tower, and Tower 4, and the transportation hub will be open no matter what on schedule. Also, I don't see how the economy would affect the Performing Arts Center, since it has nothing to do with demand for office space. Of course, Tower 7 is already done. So even if Towers 2, 3, and 5 face major delays, you'd still have over half the site done by 2014.

Lastly, remember that the Twin Towers opened in 1973, but the Marriot Hotel wasn't built until quite a few years later. WTC7 didn't open until about fifteen years later. So, even if it takes a few years longer for some buildings to be built, you'd still have a thriving World Trade Center site in 2014.

I agree with most of what you said, but the original WTC only existed in its' completed form (the two towers finished) for about thirty years. Now these people are talking about not finishing rebuilding for thirty six/seven years. That's longer than the time period during which the towers themselves actually stood. It's ridiculous.

This story only has any legitimacy if you believe the current economic crisis will still be around 30 years from now (which would be longer than the Great Depression). If it is, then the rebuilding of the World Trade Center would be the least of anyone's concerns. New York City will have turned into a lawless society similar to the one in Escape from New York.

Again, recessions don't last 30 years (not even depressions). Many are saying that we've already hit the bottom in this recession. Others say we'll hit the bottom and start growing again at the end of 2009.

According to a reliable source the south crane is scheduled to be jumped this weekend and removing the Vesey St. overhang has begun.

Well then I wish, whoever these idiots are, reporting this erroneous misinformation would, just get their damn stories straight. It's a case of doom and gloom journalists projecting worst-case scenarios two or three decades hence. They know they won't be held accountable for what they write because no-one will remember it, or care. Who can possibly predict what the New York prime grade office market or vacancy rate will be 20 or 30 years from now? Take no notice of the doomsayers, economic downturns come and go.

According to a reliable source the south crane is scheduled to be jumped this weekend and removing the Vesey St. overhang has begun.

Well, even though this means the south crane will be towering even HIGHER above the north crane, hopefully this means that they can continue installing steel on the southern half of the core. Would that be a correct assumption, Zen? Great news about the overhang!

BTW Zen, I meant to ask you this some posts back when you were talking about a stairwell corridor on B1, but do you know how many stairwells there will be in WTC1? I know there will be four in the base, at each corner, but what about further up the building?

This story only has any legitimacy if you believe the current economic crisis will still be around 30 years from now (which would be longer than the Great Depression). If it is, then the rebuilding of the World Trade Center would be the least of anyone's concerns. New York City will have turned into a lawless society similar to the one in Escape from New York.

Again, recessions don't last 30 years (not even depressions). Many are saying that we've already hit the bottom in this recession. Others say we'll hit the bottom and start growing again at the end of 2009.

Don't tell that to me, tell that to the PA.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090416/ap_on_re_us/attacks_redevelopment

all i can say F***

we should make a new rule that you only post photo updates so we can get rid of alllllllllllllll these long winded debates no one really reads.

It's just a media beat up - bad news sells so they just sensationalise stuff. If you believed everything you read in the press about the GFC the world will be almost at an end by late 2009!

According to a reliable source the south crane is scheduled to be jumped this weekend and removing the Vesey St. overhang has begun.

not possible :sly:

1776...??? the year of America independence...???

^^ Uh yeah? :dunno:

Some dumb ass in wikipedia has change the opening date for this building to 10 years from now. I'm getting sick of these stupid people who go around change articals because they believe everything they hear. Chris Ward should be fire from PA for waiting to put tower 2 on hold for 20 years. I'm getting sick of the BS going around, I'm going to take a break from it.

Don't tell that to me, tell that to the PA.

The PA has no say concerning Towers 2 and 3 (or, very little say). Silverstein is the one you should be listening to, and he says the towers will face no delays, much less a 30 year delay.

(Sure, Silverstein may just be sugar-coating things, but even if there is a delay I don't think it will be major.)

Great crystalline structure but nothing could replace the sombre glory of the original WTC towers.

I agree 100%. :cheers:

was down there yesterday and saw great progress...yep, i saw the south tower crane moving around some vital equipment....the port-a-potties. a nice section of 4 of them attached together. it took a good 20 minutes to move them around. outstanding. i couldn't take any more excitement and left.

Well, even though this means the south crane will be towering even HIGHER above the north crane, hopefully this means that they can continue installing steel on the southern half of the core. Would that be a correct assumption, Zen? Great news about the overhang!

BTW Zen, I meant to ask you this some posts back when you were talking about a stairwell corridor on B1, but do you know how many stairwells there will be in WTC1? I know there will be four in the base, at each corner, but what about further up the building?

If in fact they actually are jumping the crane the only reason I can think of is to put up more erecting steel.

There well be 3 stairs, 2 are extra wide (almost 6 feet) and one is a bit narrower. The narrower one is strictly for firemen. There is also a freight elevator equipped for operation during a fire, again, for firemen to use in the event of a fire or other emergency.

The second floor is the "transfer floor" where the 2 main stairs (A&B)are connected to the 4 corner stairs (D,E,F&G).

not possible :sly:

That was my first thought about jumping the crane this weekend. Then I got to thinking about it.

I came up with 2 possibilities, 1) they are going to add sections ot the tower (I think they can because the tower is not at it's full unbraced height) or 2) They are going to put in a base somewhere on the erecting steel then jack the tower up to it.

Another possibility is they are going to brace the tower to the erecting steel and add sections.

The PA has no say concerning Towers 2 and 3 (or, very little say). Silverstein is the one you should be listening to, and he says the towers will face no delays, much less a 30 year delay.

(Sure, Silverstein may just be sugar-coating things, but even if there is a delay I don't think it will be major.)

I know about the intricacies of the site. If Silverstein has no financing and the PA does not want to work with him AND the economy is slow to recover then the buildings will be in trouble. Time will tell. If the Port Authority wasn't acting so childish about things it wouldn't be an issue.

I don't want to defend the PA, but I can understand their lack of desire to loan Silverstein ~$5 billion to build 2 and 3WTC with no tenants lined up at all. It's a big risk for them. There already being "forced" to pay premium rent in 4WTC as is. Silverstein has little equity in the site, and ton$ of upside. Unfortunately there is a lack of desire by the public and government to shelve out even more billion$ of dollars to billioniares so they can become even bigger billionaires.

I hope the two sides can come to an understanding soon. My bet is Larry will just have to suck it up and hold off on 2 and 3, build the underground and above ground retail and hope things will work out in the future with building the rest of his towers.

North core ,April 17.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050352.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050354.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050358.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050359.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050360.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050362.jpg

It appears that a few of the 40-foot perimeter columns that Zen talked about a few days ago have arrived on the site! If you look at the earthcam webcam at around 6:30 today, you see several columns being laid flat on Vesey Street, and also notice how both cranes are being used to move them, indicating that they are too heavy to move with one crane... and thus, must be the huge 40-foot columns!:banana:

If in fact they actually are jumping the crane the only reason I can think of is to put up more erecting steel.

There well be 3 stairs, 2 are extra wide (almost 6 feet) and one is a bit narrower. The narrower one is strictly for firemen. There is also a freight elevator equipped for operation during a fire, again, for firemen to use in the event of a fire or other emergency.

You've got to be kidding. As great as the original Twin Towers were, one of their biggest flaws was that they only had three stairwells. Immediately after 9/11, there were calls for all skyscrapers to have more stairwells. Now you're saying that the new One World Trade Center will actually have LESS, just two civilian stairwells? What are they thinking? I understand the building has less square feet and therefore less people who will be working at any given time, but two stairwells is just unbelievable.

The second floor is the "transfer floor" where the 2 main stairs (A&B)are connected to the 4 corner stairs (D,E,F&G).

Ah, now I understand why the blast wall surrounds the second floor as well, instead of just the lobby.

Wow, they are really hauling ass on the north core. A lot of rebar has been laid in the last week.

I believe the new 1WTC will have wider stairwells that will actually allow for faster egress than the old ones.

Is this treu or a fat lie!!! :bash: :bash: :bash:

New World Trade Center not finished until 2037.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/04/16/2009-04-16_world_trade_center_project_wont_be_finished_until_36_years_after_911__pa.html

^^ I think it is, already mentioned before as well.

Can't imagine how old I'll be by then, maybe not even walking on the face of this planet by then...

Is this treu or a fat lie!!! :bash: :bash: :bash:

New World Trade Center not finished until 2037.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/04/16/2009-04-16_world_trade_center_project_wont_be_finished_until_36_years_after_911__pa.html


Thats Bull Shit, evenn though i read it on www.wtc.com
i still don't belive it.

But it's not the WHOLE complex there wont be finished according to thhe scources, it's one of the towers, 3 i think.

PLEASE SILVERSTIEN P. AND P.A. BUILT BUILT BUILT!!!!!

It seems the crane on the south core is really moving up ...

South crane making its jump today

Red support structure now visible within south core steel work

South crane making its jump today

Red support structure now visible within south core steel work

Yep. Looks like our man Zen was right, again. :)

I believe the new 1WTC will have wider stairwells that will actually allow for faster egress than the old ones.

They will be, but real safety demands a greater NUMBER of stairwells spaced far apart so that in case, god forbid, another plane did crash into the building, regardless of where it hit there would still be one or two stairwells available. If there are only two, it's possible that both could be taken out. In that case, it wouldn't make a bit of difference how wide they were. They wouldn't exist. Well, I guess if this did happen, they could always use the firemen's stairwell as a backup. Still, I would have liked to have seen 4 stairwells, each at the extreme far corners of the core.

Remember me complaining some weeks back about how the museum will have TOO MANY stairwells? Well, the Freedom Tower will have NOT ENOUGH. I honestly don't see how you can have 7 staiwells in a museum which will only have a few hundred people in it at any time, and then have only 2 stairwells in a building which is at a far greater risk of being a target and will have upwards of about 30,000-40,000 people in it at any given time.

I honestly don't see how you can have 7 staiwells in a museum which will only have a few hundred people in it at any time, and then have only 2 stairwells in a building which is at a far greater risk of being a target and will have upwards of about 30,000-40,000 people in it at any given time.
While your argument is quite valid for several reasons the reason the museum has 7 staiwells is probably because of building codes. Codes require a certain maximum distance from any point in the building to a "secure" stairwell or exit. Because the surface area of each floor of FT is quite small im sure that the 2 being provided easily me the code. On the other hand the museum covers a huge area and thus requires more means of egress.

Lol, I thought I was dreaming for a second after looking at the WTC HD cam. If you guys don't know what I'm talking about, take a look.

It the tower crane base has been jumped all the way up to the top of the steel. So basically the base of the tower crane is 100 feet tall. The crane might be visible in the skyline from some distance now.

I think it is mistake to postpone to 2037. I think all towers should be built within few years from now. I know that one day we will have another economic boom and it will fill all towers up. I personally think politicians who are involved WTC project are playing game with us.

I think it is mistake to postpone to 2037. I think all towers should be built within few years from now. I know that one day we will have another economic boom and it will fill all towers up. I personally think politicians who are involved WTC project are playing game with us.

it's not up to them to decided whether it will get build or not

It sure looks fragile way up on the top of that steel framing! Obviously though, it's well secured.

I hope we'll see more steel added to the top of the south core.

It appears that a few of the 40-foot perimeter columns that Zen talked about a few days ago have arrived on the site! If you look at the earthcam webcam at around 6:30 today, you see several columns being laid flat on Vesey Street, and also notice how both cranes are being used to move them, indicating that they are too heavy to move with one crane... and thus, must be the huge 40-foot columns!:banana:

They are heavy, but not the 48 foot sections I was talking about the other day. Those are two 35 foot sections for the north side. I'm guessing they are going to lower them through the holes in Vesey St. either today or Sunday. They well bring the hight above street level.

Anyone know what happens when the North Core has caught up to the same level as the south one. Will the tower actually start rising then?

It's not going to be ready by 2011, so start being sad ( if you like being sad for so small a reason).
And no, I don't want to see it go as fast as a chinese construction, because it may compromise the construction itself.
And here, I'd like to state my answer to some of the "too slow"ers that infect this forum:
What unit do you use to judge what is "slow" and what is "fast" construction?
Because, without talking about the uniqueness of the site of construction (that has been stated way too many times to discuss about it again) and reasons that could influence it's speed (location, bureaucracy and so on) there is the arrogance of judging other people's work, while the same people that criticize have no competence whatsoever on what they are criticizing.
I'm only a civil engineering student, and even so I wouldn't dream of having the arrogance to accuse an organization (intended as group of individuals and system) of which I know barely nothing about,in the mean time knowing just few of the parameters that may influence ANY construction (let alone this one). Other than that, I wonder what makes you think that the people that are directly linked to the managing of this project (Larry Silverstein first of all) do not desire this tower to be finished as soon as possible (the sooner the tower is completed, the sooner the money can flow back from the investments and the sooner there can be profit in relationship to the lifetime of the structure, for example). Please enlighten me, because I'm curious to know the psychology behind this ( sadly very similar to the psychology behind the believers of the conspiracy theories, but this is not the appropriate place to discuss it).

Forgive me if I did not answer before. Anyway, it was not my intention to offend anyone's work. I do not think that I was arrogant towards anyone. I was just curious. I do not live there, then I can make myself some questions, but I could not answer me. I did not want to offend anyone.

I have a video of the crane jumping:
http://howtodaylooksgroundzero.blogspot.com/2009/04/crane-jumped.html

Thats Bull Shit, evenn though i read it on www.wtc.com
i still don't belive it.

But it's not the WHOLE complex there wont be finished according to thhe scources, it's one of the towers, 3 i think.

PLEASE SILVERSTIEN P. AND P.A. BUILT BUILT BUILT!!!!!

Actually, both tower 2 and 3 might be delayed until 2037

Ooh I wanna go NYC and see this for myself, I went last April but not much has happened...

Theres no excuse to use the Economic downturn as a reason not to build 2 and 3 WTC now. By the time they are complete (2012/2013), the recession will be long gone. There are already signs of recovery. And with the countless delays for everything to do with the World Trade Center, the towers wouldn't be completed by then anyway. Ridiculous.

I have a video of the crane jumping:
http://howtodaylooksgroundzero.blogspot.com/2009/04/crane-jumped.html

Awesome! :cheers:

They only said they might not be fully leased until 2037. There is a world of difference between being fully occupied and actually built. By all accounts all the buildings would be completed long before that.


Regarding the stairwells again, the new 1WTC will have the huge advantage of having the core stairwells surrounded by steel reinforced concrete whereas the original twins had steel and drywall.

Although not aware of the actual leasable area of this project, I seriously doubt that it is more than the one in projects built in Chinese cities or the Emirates - even now. Doubting the viability of the project, especially in the context of it being the largest of its kind in the most developed country in the world, as well as the top financial center, is not a good sign, not only for the project itself but also about the belief and confidense of the US to continue its leading role in the world financial affairs.

Even if it would take more than expected in terms of resources, this project should become top priority, for it is a symbol of a city's power to regenerate itself after a disaster even of the size of the one in 911. Having been in this city many times and with the prospect to be there also this summer, I find it unacceptable for comparable projects to be built in numbers in known or unknown Chinese cities, many being former villages 20 years ago, and for NY or Chicago to not be able to compete against them.

Sometimes the vision becomes the moving power which will create new realities. Financial projections are good as long as they project current trends. The dynamics of such a project though go beyond numerical extrapolations. Keep the vision high and the tenants will follow as long as the prospect of the towers' construction is there.

Now, on the other hand, taking seven years to reach ground level is not the best indication to fulfill such a promise... But I trust NY CAN do it and it will...

Although not aware of the actual leasable area of this project, I seriously doubt that it is more than the one in projects built in Chinese cities or the Emirates - even now. Doubting the viability of the project, especially in the context of it being the largest of its kind in the most developed country in the world, as well as the top financial center, is not a good sign, not only for the project itself but also about the belief and confidense of the US to continue its leading role in the world financial affairs.

Even if it would take more than expected in terms of resources, this project should become top priority, for it is a symbol of a city's power to regenerate itself after a disaster even of the size of the one in 911. Having been in this city many times and with the prospect to be there also this summer, I find it unacceptable for comparable projects to be built in numbers in known or unknown Chinese cities, many being former villages 20 years ago, and for NY or Chicago to not be able to compete against them.

Sometimes the vision becomes the moving power which will create new realities. Financial projections are good as long as they project current trends. The dynamics of such a project though go beyond numerical extrapolations. Keep the vision high and the tenants will follow as long as the prospect of the towers' construction is there.

Now, on the other hand, taking seven years to reach ground level is not the best indication to fulfill such a promise... But I trust NY CAN do it and it will...

excuse me but...

what to hell are you talking about?

:doh::?:?

I was thinking the exact same thing! :ohno: he writes a very eloquent speech about something but forgets to mention what he's talking about. :nuts:

I think he is saying that NY should speed up the construction to symbolize its regenerative abilities...

"Don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see !" --- Mark Twain


I think alot of folks are either forgetting or are unaware of a few basic facts. First, Mr. Silverstein is under contract to supply 8 million square feet of office space at the WTC site, ( minus the 2.6 million square feet of Tower One). Second, Mr. Silverstein has said many times that the towers he is contracted to build are "well funded", and has listed the funding sources. (Liberty Bonds, insurance payments etc.) Third, he and the PA were determined NOT to rush to build simply to get towers up, but "To find what went wrong on 9-11 fix the problems and build the safest towers in the world."

They are heavy, but not the 48 foot sections I was talking about the other day. Those are two 35 foot sections for the north side. I'm guessing they are going to lower them through the holes in Vesey St. either today or Sunday. They well bring the hight above street level.

Those weren't columns, they must be part of the erecting steel. Even the high-res cam isn't good enough sometimes. There are a number of 44 inch beams in the erecting steel and layed on there side they looked big enough to be columns.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35124796@N04/3256117475/in/photostream/

the one on the right is a 44 inch.

Those columns seems so much heavier than they have to be. Does it have something to do with the building being so much more rigid than most because it's being built so strong, requiring the base to handle heavier movement loads in earthquakes or collisions?

And, by the way, I had to turn Zen into OSHA for the woman in his pictures not wearing a hardhat and fall protection. I didn't want to, but twenty bucks is twenty bucks.

Those weren't columns, they must be part of the erecting steel. Even the high-res cam isn't good enough sometimes. There are a number of 44 inch beams in the erecting steel and layed on there side they looked big enough to be columns.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35124796@N04/3256117475/in/photostream/

the one on the right is a 44 inch.

Actually, I was watching on the live, rotating webcam earlier (the one closer to the ground) as they went in place and it looked to me like they were trusses of some sort. There were two horizontal beams with diagonal sections in between (kind of like the trusses that went up over the great hall in the museum some time back), only smaller. I think they were laid vertically on Vesey, which is why they didn't look like trusses from the webcam. The rotating cam is kind of blurry though, so there may have been some stuff in the background making it look like something it wasn't. I'm not entirely sure where it was placed... either within the core or somewhere west of the core. Is there anything in the plans for such a kind of truss?

Those columns seems so much heavier than they have to be. Does it have something to do with the building being so much more rigid than most because it's being built so strong, requiring the base to handle heavier loads in earthquakes or collisions?

It's called redundancy. If a building is built three times stronger than it has to be, then two thirds of its columns can be taken out by whatever kind of disaster - manmade or natural - and still stand strong.

Also, are you talking about the steel at the base, or throughout the building? Zen might know more, but I think the reason there's so much steel in the base is just because the entire weight of the top of the building rests on the bottom. In any building, the steel gets thinner as you go up, since there's less weight on it. I read an interview with one of the engineers of the Twin Towers who said something like 60% of the steel in the entire building was located in the bottom 30 floors.

In addition to the base taking all the load, i presume the other reason for less steel (and hence less weight) towards the top of the building and moreso at the bottom is to encourage a degree of flexibility (sway), so that the building can cope with all sorts of dynamic forces in action. Skyscrapers are essentially vertical cantilevers, where because Bending moments are greatest at the base, more strength/rigidity is required there (provided through the steel).

Crane

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050597.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050598.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050600.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050603.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050606.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1050608.jpg

cool close up pictures. nice to see close up pictures of a base:)

Outstanding close up pictures - these climbers are normally used inside of a concrete elevator shaft, I have never seen this view before.

I wonder what their up to. Want about the second crane whens can I see it move up?

^^ Hopefully soon. The northern section of the core is getting to me. It's almost like it wants us to hate it. By the time it catches up to the southern section of the core, WTC Tower 4 may be taller than it. :lol:

Tower 4 is taller then the north core, this isn't making any sense. That thing been reinforce but has move in who knows now long

glad can see big progress its running now...

Great shots jwalas, yer pics helped me confirm a few things I was wondering about, like that all the connections in the erecting steel are moment and shear. Things like that make it possible for that seemingly spindly steel to support the rather dynamic weight of a Favco and it's load (about 70 tons total, max.)


RKOwens, I figured out what those beams that looked like trusses are, they're temporary construction stairs. (see jwalas first pic on page 420)


No way no how is #4's foundation (some parts are about 24 feet high) higher than the north half of the core(about 40 feet high). Did anyone notice they were pouring cement on the north side this morning ?

http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/video_gallery.html

crane jump from diff angle

OMG that got raised high

Tower 4 may finish before Freedom Tower, assuming it continues at its current pace and avoids any of site’s financial mess. I would not entirely rule the possibility out.

Tower 4 may finish before Freedom Tower, assuming it continues at its current pace and avoids any of site’s financial mess. I would not entirely rule the possibility out.

Tower 4 has always been projected to finish before 1WTC. 4WTC (2012) vs. 1WTC (late 2013).

Tower 4 has always been projected to finish before 1WTC. 4WTC (2012) vs. 1WTC (late 2013).

It probably will, but I don't see that as being an embarassment to the Freedom Tower or anything like that. Remember, one of the smaller buildings already finished long before the Freedom Tower. It's called WTC7!

this structural steel setup calls for a major portion of it to be concrete encased, take note of the s
heer connectors encrusting it, ....millions of them..,

Also great to see the crane(s) start jacking them self up.....as said before, real progress starting.

wtcprogress.com reports the south crane rose 68 feet this weekend and is now 189 feet above street level. :cheers:

Glad to see that the crane jumped...It's a good sign of incoming progress...:)

I understand this building is being built with strength as a high priority but it seems unusual to see the core steel frame in fairly light steel. I see other posts say the opposite ? I realize it is to be encased in concrete. We usually cast a slip formed reinforced concrete core with a steel frame connection to the solid core. This steel columns look way lighter than that for the original WTC ( See pic ) but they only had fragile core cladding. Sure they know better than I anyway, it's just an observation.
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6270/2009421medium.jpg (http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2009421medium.jpg)
PS.....sorry to post pic of devastated WTC on this thread but edited it to show column size.

There was a major concrete pour on the last basement floor on the south side of the site, either last night or this morning, according to the webcam.

http://www.earthcam.net/users2/interface.php?i=0&id=445&projectid=202&clientid=158

suddenly the pace is picking up at the site init? and its is definately a pour on the south east corner.

I understand this building is being built with strength as a high priority but it seems unusual to see the core steel frame in fairly light steel. I see other posts say the opposite ? I realize it is to be encased in concrete. We usually cast a slip formed reinforced concrete core with a steel frame connection to the solid core. This steel columns look way lighter than that for the original WTC ( See pic ) but they only had fragile core cladding. Sure they know better than I anyway, it's just an observation.
PS.....sorry to post pic of devastated WTC on this thread but edited it to show column size.

Since it's a completely different method of construction, I'm not sure if the differing size of columns has any real meaning.

The erecting steel (all that stuff on top of the core) is just there to hold up the floors and construction equipment untell the core is cast. It is not intended to take the weight of the entire tower just 4 or 5 floors.

TICONLA1 the term you are looking for is shear studs, and there are gona be millions of em.

Now that spring is here things should start pouring along.

The erecting steel (all that stuff on top of the core) is just there to hold up the floors and construction equipment untell the core is cast. It is not intended to take the weight of the entire tower just 4 or 5 floors.

TICONLA1 the term you are looking for is shear studs, and there are gona be millions of em.

Now that spring is here things should start pouring along.

In fact, all morning there has been a concrete "hose" thing stretching from above the west slurry wall down INTO the museum, it looks like. Do you know what they are pouring, Zen? My guess would be the bedrock level of the museum, but I'd be surprised if they already started on the concrete (since the steel erection isn't even completed).

OMG that's trully cool

Does anyone knows what kind building machines and cranes are used at construction? what brands and from what countries?

Does anyone knows what kind building machines and cranes are used at construction? what brands and from what countries?

definitely American cranes, lol, seriously dude we dont import cranes when we have companies like caterpillar here, who cares about what companies build them anyway:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

^^^ I care wait a minute no I don't. You been start trouble for over a 100 years Rasputin lol. I don't find the crane jumping interesting in the less. Call me when the tower jumps anther 100 feet.

Impossible to tell where they are pouring, but since the north core seems closed it looks like the north core is being poured today.

I cannot see it clearly in EarthCam... perhaps someone with new pics would solved this...

Does anyone knows what kind building machines and cranes are used at construction? what brands and from what countries?

As for main cranes those are malaysian Favelle Favco cranes. As for rest for sure many different brands and countries.

Just got this email from Rebuild Ground Zero (mailto:fredsfousa@hotmail.com):
From: Rebuild Ground Zero [fredsfousa@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thu 23/04/2009 12:32
To: Adam *********
Cc:
Subject: News RebuildGroundZero.org


HiAdam ********, I'd like to inform you that the webcam is back and should be streaming correctly now. We are working on a new version of the website. Any idea of features or feedback are welcomes now. All the best, The RGZ Team rebuildgroundzero.org




___________________________________________________________
You're receiving this Newsletter because you have subscribed
to the Newsletter Service at http://www.rebuildgroundzero.org.
To unsubscribe please click here: Se DésinscrireSo far so good; it'd be nice to have a view from that side of the site again.

There was another concrete pour today over the Freedom Tower/Fulton Street connector. Good to see some progress, building this tower is like putting together a puzzle. :nuts:

Just got this email from Rebuild Ground Zero (mailto:fredsfousa@hotmail.com):
So far so good; it'd be nice to have a view from that side of the site again.

If you were trying to keep your last name secret, I think you missed one. :nuts: j/k

Great that the webcam is back up, though I imagine it'll probably be down again in a matter of hours.

As for main cranes those are malaysian Favelle Favco cranes. As for rest for sure many different brands and countries.


Favelle Favco what brand is this? just curious - never heard of them. as far as I heard there were supposed to be only American made machines used at the site - true or not true. Anyone?

Favelle Favco what brand is this? just curious - never heard of them. as far as I heard there were supposed to be only American made machines used at the site - true or not true. Anyone?

We see a lot of them on offshore oil/gas rigs. They're a major player.

Favelle Favco what brand is this? just curious - never heard of them. as far as I heard there were supposed to be only American made machines used at the site - true or not true. Anyone?

The nickname for Favelle cranes is Kangaroo cranes cause they started out in Australia. Favelle is the brand name, Favco is the crane division. Liebherr (German) made the two large crawler cranes used on the Memorial site. The construction elevators are Swiss I believe.

If only American machinery were used the towers would never get built.

By the way, Favelle cranes were used in the construction of the Twin Towers.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/ssm/dsc00170.jpg

rebuildgroundzero.org has updated its site with a huge batch of new photos throughout April (over 500!). Be sure to check it out. One thing that caught my attention was in this photo:

http://www.rebuildgroundzero.org/components/com_datsogallery/img_originals/1worldtradecenter17_20090422_1115106738.jpg

Have they already started on the slurry wall at the Vehicle Security Center location? This looks an awfully lot like it did when they were doing the east bathtub (man, what a long time ago that was).

^^ According to lowermanhattan.info, they began installing the slurry wall panels earlier this month.

If you were trying to keep your last name secret, I think you missed one. :nuts: j/kWhoops! Good catch. Thanks for not quoting my mistake.:)

hmmm looks like their finally taking down that damn bank. Everything else looks like everything else, what can I really say.

The nickname for Favelle cranes is Kangaroo cranes cause they started out in Australia. Favelle is the brand name, Favco is the crane division. Liebherr (German) made the two large crawler cranes used on the Memorial site. The construction elevators are Swiss I believe.

If only American machinery were used the towers would never get built.

By the way, Favelle cranes were used in the construction of the Twin Towers.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/docs/ssm/dsc00170.jpg

The steel beams are from Luxenbourg and other Arcelor/Mittal's factories in Europe (and elswhere probably), and the Favelle cranes are being used to build World's tallest tower, with one of them currently standing/working at a height of 700+ meters (2,300 ft).

Middle man axed at WTC transit hub

Port Authority of New York & New Jersey to take over construction of the $3 billion Calatrava project in an effort to keep the transit hub on time and on budget.

Construction of the $3 billion Santiago Calatrava transit hub at the World Trade Center site will be managed by the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey instead of a joint venture of private firms, the two parties said Thursday.

Eliminating the middle man will allow the Port Authority to take better advantage of the falling price of construction materials and to ensure the project remains on time and on budget, according to an agency spokesman.

The hub was initially expected to cost about $2 billion, but the revised figure was released last year when the Port Authority released a new construction schedule for the 16-acre World Trade Center site.

Phoenix Constructors—a joint venture between Bovis Lend Lease, Skanska Group, Granite Construction and Fluor Corp.—will finish managing the portions of the project it started. It will keep working until at least 2010 and possibly 2012. Phoenix Constructors has managed the project since 2003.

Members of the consortium are welcome to bid on elements of the project going forward, the Port Authority spokesman said.

:wtf::gunz::sly: :gaah:

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/9402/post495311238778866.jpg

^^ That makes a lot of sense. :ohno: Instead of reducing the politics to get the transportation center built they're going to insert more politics! I'm sure that will significantly speed up the process (not). I'm also very confused why a transportation center will cost that much. It's not that big of a building and most of the major underground issues have already been resolved or at least are underway. Just another example of how costs get inflated because of politics and unions in New York City.

When are they going to install the new crane at the memorial site?

^^ That makes a lot of sense. :ohno: Instead of reducing the politics to get the transportation center built they're going to insert more politics! I'm sure that will significantly speed up the process (not). I'm also very confused why a transportation center will cost that much. It's not that big of a building and most of the major underground issues have already been resolved or at least are underway. Just another example of how costs get inflated because of politics and unions in New York City.The Port Authority name gets thrown around indiscriminately in regards to this project. While there are lots of politics involving this site, the Port Authority is not itself a political body. Because of the close proximity of the state boundaries between New York and New Jersey, territorial disputes were common up through the early twentieth century. The PANYNJ was formed in 1921 through an interstate compact to manage the vast majority of the transportation infrastructure in the area (with several major exceptions). While the highest level titles are political appointees (much like either state's Department of Transportation), the rank and file are professionals just like you'd get at a private contracting firm.

The Phoenix Constructors contract dates back to when the rebuilding was overseen by a loose network of interlocking interests. One of the key things that got progress started was when oversight of the WTC rebuilding was consolidated under the Port Authority. Since that happened, it makes no sense for a private contractor to add another layer of bureaucracy. Since the PANYNJ knows what the needs of the entire site are, it best knows how to contract out specific jobs at specific times.

Have they already started on the slurry wall at the Vehicle Security Center location? This looks an awfully lot like it did when they were doing the east bathtub (man, what a long time ago that was).http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6266/vscapril01.jpg
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7384/vscapril02.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2372/vscapril03.jpg

When are they going to install the new crane at the memorial site?

I think we're done seeing any new cranes in the memorial pit. One did arrive a few weeks ago in the SW corner and is at street level.

My guess is the remaining crane will be used to fill out the remaining sections in the middle (between the N and S pools). Then it will probably be dismantled and reassembled at street level to finish off the remaining western portion (including that missing corner of the north pool).

After that they'll probably finish the SW corner and then move over to finishing off the steel installation over the PATH area in the middle of the site.

If I give you a price for a stack of bricks to be delivered in 6 months then 3 months later the price of bricks falls 25% wouldn't you want me to give you a lower price?

That's part of the reasion the PA is taking over.

Does anyone know when the north core is going to rise a level?

The name Freedom Tower is not longer more on Ground zero. They changed the name to One World Trade Center. :(

I prefer the name change, and I think 1 World Trade Center is a classier name anyway.

The name Freedom Tower is not longer more on Ground zero. They changed the name to One World Trade Center. :(

It was always called One World Trade Center. Freedom Tower was and is a nickname, like "Twin Towers" was a nickname for the original towers. One World Trade Center was the name preferred by most of us interested in the rebuilding effort as well as most New Yorkers.

besides, the name "Freedom Tower" is the tackiest crap I've ever heard. The building is an office tower, 1 World Trade Center, not an inspirational memorial.

Actually, "The Freedom Tower" is the name of a very historic Beaux-Arts style building in downtown Miami, Florida. It was dubbed "The Freedom Tower" because it was the port of entry for 100,000's of Cuban refugees who flooded into Miami after Castro's takeover of that island nation.

1 World Trade Center is better.

The name Freedom Tower is not longer more on Ground zero. They changed the name to One World Trade Center. :(

Yeah, thank Christ!!!

You people bitch about some of the dumbest shit. I've alway called it freedom tower. And speak of what most New Yorkers perfer. Most New Yorkers don't care. What most of us care about, is rebuilding the WTC. Anything outside of that is neither here or there.

Talking about name changes. bitch about sear towers name change. Bitch if they change the name empire state building not the freedom tower.

You people bitch about some of the dumbest shit. I've alway called it freedom tower. And speak of what most New Yorkers perfer. Most New Yorkers don't care. What most of us care about, is rebuilding the WTC. Anything outside of that is neither here or there.

Talking about name changes. bitch about sear towers name change. Bitch if they change the name empire state building not the freedom tower.

Can you say "Perpetuating the stereotype" boys and girls?

can a mod take Freedom Tower out of the title of this thread?

^^ ye, just 1WTC.

can a mod take Freedom Tower out of the title of this thread?

It's there for people who have not visited the forum in awhile or do not know of the name change. It should stay, it's already in parentheses.

can a mod take Freedom Tower out of the title of this thread?
It needs to remain there! People are always going to call this building Freedom Tower just like they used always call the old buildings the Twin Towers. Personally many people including myself believe it should be the official name of this building in it probably would be except the PA tried to be politically correct in its naming because the first major announced tenant is Chinese!

If you're not gonna keep the main Freedom Tower why bother putting on the stupid spire to make the building 1776', just eliminate it, make the building look better and reduce the cost.

I havent been here since like a month and i can see a lot of progress :D.

rofl it's 91 degrees in new york HOLY SHIT

I like the design, very impressive!

If I give you a price for a stack of bricks to be delivered in 6 months then 3 months later the price of bricks falls 25% wouldn't you want me to give you a lower price?

That's part of the reasion the PA is taking over.

I'd want the bricks for free, but I wouldn't expect them. Materials prices are like the commodities market. Timing is a gamble. The supplier always risks having to deliver them for less than he paid for them, and the buyer makes his best guess as to when to buy.
If the PA has the legal option of backing out of the deal, then they should. But not because it's "fair". But because that's the way the deal was written.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1060262.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1060265.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1060266.jpg

I think today 27 April was when 3 years ago the project officially started...

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1060265.jpg

Those columns are not in the core; so from this photo seems they start finally construct the rest of the building...

Those columns are not in the core; so from this photo seems they start finally construct the rest of the building...

those columns have been there for a while

For those of you who missed today's flyby . . .

http://www.eeeperfect.com/NY_Airforce_One_April_2009.jpg

yea like that image is totally real

It's the impression that counts ;)

what's the point of that pic?

what's the point of that pic?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-tab-low-flying-plane_28apr28,0,7961261.story

and yes it is off topic CYBEO

For those of you who missed today's flyby . . .

http://www.eeeperfect.com/NY_Airforce_One_April_2009.jpg

LOL, dude you were WAY off. The Statue of Liberty (including the base) is only about 305 feet tall. Air Force One is about 230 feet long, nose to tail. Now, does this scaling seem accurate? Otherwise cool pic, it'll be interesting to see how the real ones turned out.

that plain is like a mini plane, just like the mini helicopter seen near statue of liberty in national treasure 2.

those columns have been there for a while
Yea but now they start use those columns for concrete ;) that why i said in my previous post...

Yea but now they start use those columns for concrete ;) that why i said in my previous post...

?

you didn't say anything about concrete in your previous post :lol:

For those of you who missed today's flyby . . .

http://www.eeeperfect.com/NY_Airforce_One_April_2009.jpg

jus watched the news, u live in NYC? it was in chaos this after noon...

jus watched the news, u live in NYC? it was in chaos this after noon...

Yesterday, they decided to do an Air Force One photo shoot over New York City, in the middle of the day, without telling anyone. Wait, they did tell the city and state it was going to happen, but they were told to keep the whole thing a secret, and refer questions to the FAA. :ohno:

some real pics
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3390/3480497826_2c85b3fef9.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3370/3479688357_7a4f6c3b5b.jpg

About the height of Flight 11. I probably would have been concerned if I lived in NY. That being said, the federal government can and has proved time and time again that they will do whatever they please.

I'm betting a few people either lost their jobs or were demoted over this. Saw on the news many people running from buildings. Unknown exactly what they were told or why to evacuate. Not many people would recognize AF1.

About the height of Flight 11. I probably would have been concerned if I lived in NY. That being said, the federal government can and has proved time and time again that they will do whatever they please.

No, simply the routes of the Air Force One as well as the Air Force Two are ALWAYS secret, no matter what (for obvious reasons of security). Even in this case, since even though the president was not on board, demonstrative attacks could have been possible, given the symbolic (and economic) importance of the airplane.

Yesterday, they decided to do an Air Force One photo shoot over New York City, in the middle of the day, without telling anyone. Wait, they did tell the city and state it was going to happen, but they were told to keep the whole thing a secret, and refer questions to the FAA. :ohno:
What concerns me every bit as much as the scare it put in New York citizens is the cost of the fiasco! It's not cheap to fly a 747 with F16 escort. You'd think they'd want to present a better image than spending money for a photo shoot. As demonstrated they could've just used Photoshop without ever flying the plane.

well, at least it's been confirmed obama didn't have anything to do with all this :nuts:

Blame him anyway.....its his plane and he's the one in charge.

he didn't even know it happened until after the fact

you can't really blame him for white house people doing shit without consulting him first

What concerns me every bit as much as the scare it put in New York citizens is the cost of the fiasco! It's not cheap to fly a 747 with F16 escort. You'd think they'd want to present a better image than spending money for a photo shoot. As demonstrated they could've just used Photoshop without ever flying the plane.

...local news here said the cost was $300,000!! Totally inexcusable in todays environment. What was the point? If Obama didn't know about this, he needs to get people under control.

he didn't even know it happened until after the fact you can't really blame him for white house people doing shit without consulting him first
You certainly can! The person who allowed this to happen is on his staff and as such anything that person does reflects on the president. Any decision they make should be the decision the president would make it not he has chosen the wrong people. He is ultimately responsible for anything done under his watch!

Can we please get back to the topic...

I don't know if anyone noticed but looks like they installed service elevator on north side ( by path entrance) :)

...local news here said the cost was $300,000!! Totally inexcusable in todays environment. What was the point? If Obama didn't know about this, he needs to get people under control.

Don't make comparisons relative to the average citizen's yearly salary! If so, nearly the cost of any government program will make your jaw drop.

and also remember that the federal budget.. is a LOT bigger.

Don't make comparisons relative to the average citizen's yearly salary! If so, nearly the cost of any government program will make your jaw drop.

and also remember that the federal budget.. is a LOT bigger.

BACK TO TOPIC :bash::ohno:
This is construction forum *****



Can we please get back to the topic...

How's a webcam update to get us back on topic?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3486174383_ece6f86438_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3242/3486174691_14bdbf2433_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3628/3486174891_f3a82b1979_o.jpg

You know, it's sad that the original hudson terminal was lost due to 9/11. The tracks were left intact at the base of the "bathtub" when the PANYNJ took over & used a more modern loop terminal which could fit longer trains vs 3 cars.

The retaining wall holding up the subway line is where part of that old loop used to be & why they needed the wall there.

More photos later today.

- A

Today
Source: http://howtodaylooksgroundzero.blogspot.com
http://i39.tinypic.com/nxkxhs.jpg

i can't really see anything different. shame...