NEW YORK | One World Trade Center (1WTC) | 541m | 1776ft | 104 fl

spectre000

May 5th, 2009, 02:26 AM

A new quarterly report (1Q2009) was just released on wtcprogress.com.

The second quarter milestones for 1WTC are,

Complete North Core Shearwall to B1:
Complete placement of reinforcing steel and high strength concrete for the North Core of One World Trade Center to bring it up to the B-1 level – the last level before grade.

South Core Crane Jump: (*this appears to have already been met)
This represents the movement of the southern tower crane from the supports within the South Core to the erection steel above the core. This movement will facilitate continued erection of the southern core. The South Core Crane has already made one previous jump.

Finish Concrete Placement on the #2 – Auxiliary Shear Wall:
This will enable the start of the slab work to be located at street level, which will facilitate vehicle and equipment access to support the above-grade construction.

Complete First Three Sections of Cutback of the Vesey Street Deck:
Removal of these pieces of Vesey Street north of the One World Trade Center site will allow the installation to continue on the remainder of the building’s exterior columns and completion of basement deck construction in that area. This area of Vesey Street is already inside the fenced-off area and will not affect pedestrian movements.

RKOwens

May 5th, 2009, 02:35 AM

The first rendering in RKOwens post is the latest rendering, it also matches the prints.

With the MTVA deal officially dead the communications rings and mast are probably going to change.

One of the things that struck me about the communications mast is that the guy wires are 6 inch diameter Kevlar.

I'm hoping that the ring does change. I like this look way, way better:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a217/youaremykilikiller/freedom-tower-1-large.jpg?t=1241483458

By the way, Zen, do you know if they're still planning on having that rain-catching idea incorporated into the roof design somehow? How would that work? I though the circular ring was supposed to be what caught the water.

Also, in the past two minutes I just saw David Shuster (he's guest hosing Countdown) claim three times that Condaleeza Rice claimed the other day that the Twin Towers were 80 stories tall. In fact, I remember her speech about this the other day and she said that she was horrified by the videos of people jumping out from the 80th floor. In the South Tower at least, I'm sure there were people jumping from the 80th floor. She never said the towers were 80 stories. No big deal, just this guy seems to deliberately lie sometimes.

Msradell

May 5th, 2009, 02:38 AM

One of the things that struck me about the communications mast is that the guy wires are 6 inch diameter Kevlar.
6 inch Kevlar? Where in the world did you see that or better yet why in the world would somebody consider that. That sounds like a ridiculous decision.

RKOwens

May 5th, 2009, 02:53 AM

spectre000

May 5th, 2009, 03:22 AM

Is anyone else able to read the "6 month look ahead" graphic in the report? The text is really small, and when I zoom in on the PDF it's just WAY too blurry to make out a single word.

^^ I'd like to be able to read it as well. There was also a lot of information about the steel erection schedule for the memorial included in the report. Anyone who can provide a breakdown of the "Sectors" mentioned in the report would be appreciated as well.

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/6103/wtcplanahead.png

Nomadd22

May 5th, 2009, 03:37 AM

One of the things that struck me about the communications mast is that the guy wires are 6 inch diameter Kevlar.

Of course, there are different types of Kevlar fiber and different ways of weaving them, but a 6 inch cable would be rated at something like 1500 tons with about a 6,000 ton breaking point. Seems a little excessive for guy wires on a 400 foot tall mast.

Zensteeldude

May 5th, 2009, 04:07 AM

6 inch Kevlar? Where in the world did you see that or better yet why in the world would somebody consider that. That sounds like a ridiculous decision.

I guess you are hard of reading, so I well repeat slowly, I have a full set of prints for Tower One.

Zensteeldude

May 5th, 2009, 04:10 AM

Of course, there are different types of Kevlar fiber and different ways of weaving them, but a 6 inch cable would be rated at something like 1500 tons with about a 6,000 ton breaking point. Seems a little excessive for guy wires on a 400 foot tall mast.

When you consider that the mast weighs over 400 tons (a little less than 1 ton per foot of height) and must withstand 130+ mph winds, it's not so incredible. The mast is 442 feet tall, it sits on top of the core at roof level.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35124796@N04/3502460973/

Zensteeldude

May 5th, 2009, 04:21 AM

I'm hoping that the ring does change. I like this look way, way better:

By the way, Zen, do you know if they're still planning on having that rain-catching idea incorporated into the roof design somehow? How would that work? I though the circular ring was supposed to be what caught the water.

Also, in the past two minutes I just saw David Shuster (he's guest hosing Countdown) claim three times that Condaleeza Rice claimed the other day that the Twin Towers were 80 stories tall. In fact, I remember her speech about this the other day and she said that she was horrified by the videos of people jumping out from the 80th floor. In the South Tower at least, I'm sure there were people jumping from the 80th floor. She never said the towers were 80 stories. No big deal, just this guy seems to deliberately lie sometimes.

I wouldn't believe Condaleeza Rice (or David Shuster) if she told me ice was cold.

The roof is sloped toward drains as in a normal roof, but the drains go to collection tanks in the basement.

choyak

May 5th, 2009, 08:21 AM

I wonder what the spire will be enclosed in. Will it be similar to the Trump in Chicago tower spire?

Msradell

May 5th, 2009, 01:22 PM

I guess you Are hard of reading, so I well repeat slowly, I have a full set of prints for Tower One.
You'd notice I went on to say why would they consider that! That sounds like a very ridiculous solution. Yes Kevlar is stronger per pound than steel but not stronger on a volumetric basis and it's certainly more expensive. It definitely doesn't sound like a smart solution in this case.

Nomadd22

May 5th, 2009, 01:49 PM

When you consider that the mast weighs over 400 tons (a little less than 1 ton per foot of height) and must withstand 130+ mph winds, it's not so incredible. The mast is 442 feet tall, it sits on top of the core at roof level.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35124796@N04/3502460973/

I guess I didn't realize how much acceleration the top of the building is built for. As low as the cables are attached, the leverage exerted on them from a 777 hitting the tower near the top would put some pretty hellacious strain on the guys. I wouldn't have expected the spire to weigh that much either. I'm used to putting up Rohn 65 towers that would only weigh about 5 tons for that size.

Stephanie-kun

May 5th, 2009, 04:09 PM

Any progress on the building site?

kanye

May 5th, 2009, 04:37 PM

Any progress on the building site?

http://www.earthcam.net/users2/interface.php?id=445&projectid=202&clientid=158

christos-greece

May 5th, 2009, 06:55 PM

^^ From earthcam i see that in the south core the crane rise up again...

Zensteeldude

May 6th, 2009, 01:40 AM

You'd notice I went on to say why would they consider that! That sounds like a very ridiculous solution. Yes Kevlar is stronger per pound than steel but not stronger on a volumetric basis and it's certainly more expensive. It definitely doesn't sound like a smart solution in this case.

I can only guess that the engineers decided that four expensive Kevlar cables would be more compact and in keeping with the architectural design. As I said, I was surprised they went with Kevlar rather than the new high strength steel cables.

Zensteeldude

May 6th, 2009, 01:44 AM

I guess I didn't realize how much acceleration the top of the building is built for. As low as the cables are attached, the leverage exerted on them from a 777 hitting the tower near the top would put some pretty hellacious strain on the guys. I wouldn't have expected the spire to weigh that much either. I'm used to putting up Rohn 65 towers that would only weigh about 5 tons for that size.

Personally, I think designing anything today with a 9/11 style attack in mind is "Fighting the Last War" so to speak. If they ever do hit us again, it well most likely not be with our own airplanes.

Nomadd22

May 6th, 2009, 02:18 AM

I don't think Kevlar is much more compact than steel. It's much stronger by weight, but about the same by size. I'd bet the lower weight would be the reason to go with it.
The mass of steel cables that strong could create problems by itself.
Any chance they aren't pure Kevlar? I know some oil companies have been using Kevlar tubes filled with whatever substance gives them the flexibility and resonance characteristics they want for long underwater runs where they don't want the weight of steel.

I never looked that close at the spire before. Using the advanced high tech scientific method of holding a toothpick up to the picture, it looks something like 14 feet wide at the base. Maybe it would be the equipment enclosure for whatever gear the antennas would use?
I'd give a months pay to service the top beacon just for the chance to sit on top the spire (not too pointy I hope) and cast my gaze upon The City.

Fury

May 6th, 2009, 05:32 AM

I guess you are hard of reading, so I well repeat slowly, I have a full set of prints for Tower One.

You should share ...

:cheers:

Msradell

May 6th, 2009, 02:45 PM

Maybe it would be the equipment enclosure for whatever gear the antennas would use?
The latest information is that the deal for using the structure as an antenna has fallen through and now it's strictly a spire! That make change again in the future but right now no equipment will be inside of the spire.

jhalsey

May 6th, 2009, 07:19 PM

There are other carbon fibre composites around lighter and stronger than steel or kevlar.

poshbakerloo

May 6th, 2009, 08:20 PM

I'm gonna go NYC in sept...so I'm excited to see all the work that has been done!

ScraperNerd

May 6th, 2009, 08:56 PM

So after all the set backs and time line changes, what's a realistic schedule for WTC1 now? I see the north core is slowly rising, when will the steel start to rise as well?

Viperfreak2

May 6th, 2009, 09:06 PM

Nomadd22

May 6th, 2009, 10:35 PM

RKOwens

May 6th, 2009, 11:05 PM

Earthcam now looks like it shows the north core forms are open, hopefully about to rise. From that angle it appears they will be only one level below the south core! Any 'from the ground' pictures would be highly appreciated.

wtc.com has finally given us its "update of the month", so to speak, with plenty of great new pictures of 1WTC, 4WTC, the memorial, and the overall site. This is my favorite, below. You can really see the progress on the west side of 1WTC, a view we so rarely get to see. Check out the site for a higher res photo. Also remember that this pic was taken on May 1st. Already since then, a portion of the north core (the side on the east) has jumped another level.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3508705770_6ddf145ca7_o.jpg

GrigorisSokratis

May 6th, 2009, 11:36 PM

http://img.slate.com/media/1/123125/2079215/2112767/2122005/050705_FreedomTOWER2_ex.jpg

I still remember this design and never liked it. Fortunately they went with the current one, which happens to be my favorite.

The latest information is that the deal for using the structure as an antenna has fallen through and now it's strictly a spire! That make change again in the future but right now no equipment will be inside of the spire.

So what's the point of a spire, just to reach the 1,776ft goal? Anyway the taller the better to me. But looks like they're dumping a lot of money just for the sake of height.

RKOwens

May 7th, 2009, 12:52 AM

So what's the point of a spire, just to reach the 1,776ft goal? Anyway the taller the better to me. But looks like they're dumping a lot of money just for the sake of height.

The point of it is for style/aesthetics. A lot of buildings have spires on them, which serve no functional purpose, but make the building look a lot better... like the Chrysler Building or the Empire State Building. Also, remember that the original One World Trade Center had a spire/antenna on top. This building would look completely different and hideous without a spire. I can't even imagine what it would look like. Oh wait, yes I can...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3352/3508950002_2981bb2838_o.jpg

BTW, Zen, do you happen to know what the stretch of Vesey Street between WTC1 and the Verizon Building will be like? Do you know how many lanes the road will be, and will there be a place outside the north entrance of WTC1 for cars to pull into and stop? Seems like there's not much room between the two buildings.

jwalas

May 7th, 2009, 12:59 AM

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1060761.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1060760.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1060763.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa155/jwalas/Construction/P1060765.jpg

Rockmont

May 7th, 2009, 01:15 AM

The point of it is for style/aesthetics. A lot of buildings have spires on them, which serve no functional purpose, but make the building look a lot better... like the Chrysler Building or the Empire State Building. Also, remember that the original One World Trade Center had a spire/antenna on top. This building would look completely different and hideous without a spire. I can't even imagine what it would look like. Oh wait, yes I can...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3352/3508950002_2981bb2838_o.jpg

BTW, Zen, do you happen to know what the stretch of Vesey Street between WTC1 and the Verizon Building will be like? Do you know how many lanes the road will be, and will there be a place outside the north entrance of WTC1 for cars to pull into and stop? Seems like there's not much room between the two buildings.

I kind of like the way it looks without the spire, now I've seen a shot of it. It won't be 1776 feet tall, but it'll still be the same height as the originals.

spectre000

May 7th, 2009, 01:28 AM

I kind of like the way it looks without the spire, now I've seen a shot of it. It won't be 1776 feet tall, but it'll still be the same height as the originals.

Looks horrible without the spire!

CULWULLA

May 7th, 2009, 01:30 AM

hasnt new tower got a observation ring at base of spire? i think its very symbolic for the spire to total 1776ft ,obviouosly year or indepence. also makes a striking adtion to skyline and also makes its Americas tallest skyscraper if im not mistaken?

RKOwens

May 7th, 2009, 02:22 AM

Thanks, jwalas! Anyone know what that styrofoam-looking stuff is on the outside of the formworks? It doesn't seem to do anything. It just looks like it's slowly falling off overtime and none of the workers seem to care.

Yep, 1WTC will be the tallest building in America, for a while at least (Chicago Spire will be taller, whenever it gets built... it was put on hold last year because of the economic crisis). Even then, it'll remain the tallest building in New York City, which is an achievement enough. Sadly though, it probably won't have a rooftop observation deck (it'll have one indoors on the 102nd floor).

Zensteeldude

May 7th, 2009, 02:50 AM

You should share ...

:cheers:

I share what I can, the prints come with a non-disclosure agreement.:(

Zensteeldude

May 7th, 2009, 02:54 AM

Seems like a set of BD drawings would be a fair trade for the FT plans. I wonder if they'll steal a trick and jack the WTC1 spire up from inside the building.
How high will the concrete core go anyhow?

THe core goes all the way to the base of the spire. The spire is designed in 20 foot high sections for erecting, there well be no sneeky jacking here. (If it even gets built).

Msradell

May 7th, 2009, 02:55 AM

The point of it is for style/aesthetics. A lot of buildings have spires on them, which serve no functional purpose, but make the building look a lot better... like the Chrysler Building or the Empire State Building. Also, remember that the original One World Trade Center had a spire/antenna on top. This building would look completely different and hideous without a spire. I can't even imagine what it would look like. Oh wait, yes I can...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3352/3508950002_2981bb2838_o.jpg

I personally think it looks much better without the spire! In the other examples you gave the spire is an integral part of the designing. In this building it looks like it was designed by somebody completely different and just stuck on top to get to the required height. The design looks a lot better and is certainly cheaper and more functional without it.

Zensteeldude

May 7th, 2009, 02:59 AM

The point of it is for style/aesthetics. A lot of buildings have spires on them, which serve no functional purpose, but make the building look a lot better... like the Chrysler Building or the Empire State Building. Also, remember that the original One World Trade Center had a spire/antenna on top. This building would look completely different and hideous without a spire. I can't even imagine what it would look like. Oh wait, yes I can...

BTW, Zen, do you happen to know what the stretch of Vesey Street between WTC1 and the Verizon Building will be like? Do you know how many lanes the road will be, and will there be a place outside the north entrance of WTC1 for cars to pull into and stop? Seems like there's not much room between the two buildings.

Going from memory there is no pull in for cars, and Vesey St. is just 2 lanes.

Zensteeldude

May 7th, 2009, 03:03 AM

RKOwens

May 7th, 2009, 04:18 AM

I personally think it looks much better without the spire! In the other examples you gave the spire is an integral part of the designing. In this building it looks like it was designed by somebody completely different and just stuck on top to get to the required height. The design looks a lot better and is certainly cheaper and more functional without it.

It wouldn't be a World Trade Center complex without a spire. Also, the lights which will shine from the top of the spire will look great, especially on anniversaries.

Stephanie-kun

May 7th, 2009, 04:23 AM

MOAR DESU!

Ebola

May 7th, 2009, 04:52 AM

^^ Yukkuri Shiteitte ne!

Msradell

May 7th, 2009, 05:42 AM

It wouldn't be a World Trade Center complex without a spire. Also, the lights which will shine from the top of the spire will look great, especially on anniversaries.
Why wouldn't it be the same building without the spire? The originals didn't have one (just an antenna) and the building so they looks a lot cleaner without it. Since they've decided to drop the name Freedom Tower that of the height of 1776' doesn't really matter any more! They can still put lights on top of the tower shining straight up like the ones they did from the old foundations for a couple of years, they looked great and would look even better from the top of the tower! :banana:

Michael874

May 7th, 2009, 05:44 AM

When will it complete . waiting for view it https://www.revenuecents.com/upload/68/1239617216/random.gif

Onn

May 7th, 2009, 06:10 AM

From WTC.com

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/112228624/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/112229414/original.jpg

webeagle12

May 7th, 2009, 07:20 AM

wow fish eye lens shots :banana::banana:

:cheers:

Metalus

May 7th, 2009, 07:54 AM

Wow, that second shot really shows the scope on how huge this thing really is.

deepblue01

May 7th, 2009, 08:29 AM

This tower looks like SWFC without the gap if it didn't have the spire and it looks like SWFC with a spire if it had one

Spartan_X

May 7th, 2009, 09:00 AM

Why is some rebar colored green? Is it something different than regular rebar ?

brizboy

May 7th, 2009, 09:32 AM

This building is giant.

bajanssen

May 7th, 2009, 12:28 PM

very massive!!

Msradell

May 7th, 2009, 01:32 PM

Why is some rebar colored green? Is it something different than regular rebar ?
The green rebar is a epoxy coated. It's normally used in bridges and roadways or moisture is a problem and would corrode normal rebar. It's being used in some of the underground portions of this building for this same reason. There are some of the areas that will be used for water storage or have high humidities. It's considerably more expensive than normal rebar.

webeagle12

May 7th, 2009, 04:19 PM

more steel beams are on a site ( 10:15am) :)

Rockmont

May 7th, 2009, 07:13 PM

This building is giant.

That is the reason, it is taking so long to build. It took the twin towers quite a few years too. I hope that is a proper answer, to all of the complaints of the naysayers.

ibib

May 7th, 2009, 07:54 PM

WoW, there are some beautiful old buildings around that project, are they to be demolished in the future?!

RKOwens

May 7th, 2009, 08:01 PM

more steel beams are on a site ( 10:15am) :)

The last time that what looked like steel beams were offloaded from semis, it just turned out to be sections of temporary stairs and platforms to be placed inside the core for workers. Those looked exactly like steel columns on the webcam too. Don't get your hopes up. They might be, might not be.

ramvid01

May 7th, 2009, 11:03 PM

WoW, there are some beautiful old buildings around that project, are they to be demolished in the future?!

Not necessarily. Many are landmarked.

As to the semis. Judging from the pictures at wirednewyork, they look like steel beams.

Marco Polo

May 8th, 2009, 02:21 AM

This one mega-construction!!!

Thanks for the photos.

webeagle12

May 8th, 2009, 07:15 AM

The last time that what looked like steel beams were offloaded from semis, it just turned out to be sections of temporary stairs and platforms to be placed inside the core for workers. Those looked exactly like steel columns on the webcam too. Don't get your hopes up. They might be, might not be.

if you look at cranes movement for about 2 hours, they both "following each other" I know those steel beams require "two" crane operation. :). That what tipped me off but maybe I'm wrong

Basincreek

May 8th, 2009, 01:15 PM

WoW, there are some beautiful old buildings around that project, are they to be demolished in the future?!

The only building surrounding the site that will be demolished is 130 Liberty and it is already half way demolished.

redbaron_012

May 8th, 2009, 01:22 PM

In the renders the mast looks very streamlined.....When you look at the original mast or the ESB mast you see lots of stuff stuck all over it, arials, dishes etc. Wonder what it will really look like ? Because it looks quite thick lower down and if made of kevlar, transmission equipment may be hidden inside as earlier posts state. Or maybe they think you wont notice that from street level ?

Uaarkson

May 8th, 2009, 01:30 PM

In the renders the mast looks very streamlined.....When you look at the original mast or the ESB mast you see lots of stuff stuck all over it, arials, dishes etc. Wonder what it will really look like ? Maybe they think you wont notice that from street level ?

the spire on 1WTC is purely for decoration at this point, so you won't see any of that crap on there. there was originally going to be a communications system inside of and at the base of the spire, but it's more or less be scrapped. in the end, the tower will look the same as the rendering.

redbaron_012

May 8th, 2009, 01:33 PM

Uaarkson, looks like you were answering me at the same time as I amended my post...Thanks, wherever you are ?

Onn

May 8th, 2009, 05:53 PM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3329/3506760006_75ee46198a_b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/spike_in_irvine/3506760006/sizes/l/

Uaarkson

May 8th, 2009, 08:50 PM

lower manhattan will have the single most glorious skyscraper cluster in the world when these towers are finished :)

Topaas

May 8th, 2009, 11:55 PM

2 may 2009

1.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7626/20090502freedomtower1bo.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20090502freedomtower1bo.jpg)

2.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2717/20090502freedomtower2bo.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20090502freedomtower2bo.jpg)

3.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3964/20090502freedomtower3bo.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20090502freedomtower3bo.jpg)

4.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5755/20090502freedomtower4bo.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20090502freedomtower4bo.jpg)

5.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5958/20090502freedomtower5bo.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20090502freedomtower5bo.jpg)

Roel

May 9th, 2009, 12:04 AM

weekendje new york gedaan, topaas? mooie foto's.

g-man430

May 9th, 2009, 12:53 AM

weekendje new york gedaan, topaas? mooie foto's.

Ummm....yes? :dunno: :rant: :cry:

devilsadvocate

May 9th, 2009, 12:19 PM

It looks like a new wonderful flower breaking through the soil...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3329/3506760006_75ee46198a_b.jpg

The Engineer

May 9th, 2009, 12:29 PM

As usual in the Dutch forums Great pictures Topaas!!

phillybud

May 10th, 2009, 12:50 AM

Thanks for the photos, Topaas and devilsadvocate! Construction photos are so interesting!

This is going to be a phenomenal building.

micrip

May 10th, 2009, 08:26 AM

The Goldman Sachs building blends in very nicely with the World Financial Center, doesn't it? This is going to be phenominal when all the buildings are finished in about 10 years...

Onn

May 10th, 2009, 08:38 AM

The Goldman Sachs building blends in very nicely with the World Financial Center, doesn't it? This is going to be phenominal when all the buildings are finished in about 10 years...

I agree, the Goldman Sachs is not a bad tower at all. It's simple, yet bold. Some say the building could be a little taller; but that's only when you view it from the skyline, a distance away. All the pictures up close have shown it's going to be an indispensable part of the new WTC site. It's slick and modern. Yeah, fits in very well with the World Financial Center too.

ElCrioyo

May 11th, 2009, 07:56 PM

An Article about the 1WTC came out today in the USA Today newspaper...very interesting...

But i think, this thread gives more valid info about the tower than the newspaper...:lol:

kingsc

May 11th, 2009, 08:33 PM

The news papers are so far behind. They still talk about 2001 design.

Nomadd22

May 11th, 2009, 08:46 PM

An Article about the 1WTC came out today in the USA Today newspaper...very interesting...

But i think, this thread gives more valid info about the tower than the newspaper...:lol:

You overdignify that rag by calling it a newspaper.
You're right about this thread. With characters like zensteeldude and rkowens, you'll learn more about the building than most of the guys working on it.

RKOwens

May 11th, 2009, 10:29 PM

You overdignify that rag by calling it a newspaper.
You're right about this thread. With characters like zensteeldude and rkowens, you'll learn more about the building than most of the guys working on it.

Whoa, don't compare my level of expertise with our man zensteeldude's. There's nothing he doesn't know! :lol:

By the way, here is the USA Today article Elcrioyo was talking about (I assume)...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-05-10-tower_N.htm

What worries me most is this article (below) about Towers 2 and 3 possibly being reduced to 4-5 story "stumps" with nothing but retail, and nixing Tower 5 altogether. At first it just seemed like a reporter talking out of his ass, but the article says that this new site plan was unveiled by the Port Authority. When did this happen, and why haven't we heard anything more? I thought Larry Silverstein was obligated by law (because of the insurance money he received) to replace the amount of office space which was lost on 9/11.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/05/11/2009-05-11_agency_wants_to_dump_3_skyscrapers.html

jhalsey

May 11th, 2009, 11:07 PM

At last it comes above ground.

AmericanSkyscraper22

May 12th, 2009, 12:21 AM

finally it looks as if we're making some progress :banana:

spectre000

May 12th, 2009, 02:29 AM

All this talk about "Stumps" is quite depressing. There is some really great progress on the Memorial and 1 and 4WTC. But we need to start seeing work soon on 2 and 3WTC this year or else the whole sites infrastructure is in trouble.

I'm holding faith in Bloomberg to get all sides to sit down and get everything built as originally promised years ago.

Ebola

May 12th, 2009, 03:08 AM

^^ This seems messed up. You think it's possible that the media is wholly exaggerating once again just for attention? I sent a message to the Port Authority a few weeks ago about this exact topic about building stumps and according to whoever answered it, they assured me that the PA has no intention not to build towers 2 and 3. How many millions and millions of dollars and hours have been used to design and plan t2 and t3? It would be simply utterly retarded and a massive waste of resources, not to mention a disgrace to the city, if they don't at least start building the retail bases of each tower in hopes of completing them whevever they see fit. If they don't start construction soon, it will only get worse.

Zensteeldude

May 12th, 2009, 03:31 AM

You flatter me RKOwens.:)

Rest assured towers 1 through 4 WELL get built. Tower 5 is slightly iffy but well most likely get built also.

I noticed after studying pics at wtc.com that the north core half is being built differently than the south half. On the south half the east and west MEP shafts are being poured well after the main core where as the MEP shafts on the north half are being poured as the core goes up. In some respects the north half is ahead of the south half !

MEP=mechanical, electrical, pluming

Onn

May 12th, 2009, 03:59 AM

I'm sure quite a bit of the drama is made up by the media, yes. I have a feeling all of them will get built, how could they not? No one is going to accept stumps on the site. The whole master plan would be ruined. Tower 4 is going to be great, but it loses a lot of punch without tower 2 and 3. The site would look, and feel, very awkward with only one of the other towers built. Space shouldn't be a problem, look how fast 7WTC was filled. Businesses are definitely going to want to lease space when they see everything completed.

Nomadd22

May 12th, 2009, 01:48 PM

Whoa, don't compare my level of expertise with our man zensteeldude's. There's nothing he doesn't know! :lol:

There's very little I do know so between Zen and me, we maintain a balance in the continuum.

Nomadd22

May 12th, 2009, 01:49 PM

You flatter me RKOwens.:)

I noticed after studying pics at wtc.com that the north core half is being built differently than the south half. On the south half the east and west MEP shafts are being poured well after the main core where as the MEP shafts on the north half are being poured as the core goes up. In some respects the north half is ahead of the south half !

MEP=mechanical, electrical, pluming

Because of the delay in pouring the north core walls maybe?

Rental Lease

May 12th, 2009, 04:20 PM

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forum, thought I'd introduce myself here with a question:
If the new Freedom Tower is going to have roughly 2.5 million square feet, and the Twin Towers had roughly 10 million square feet, and office lease space in Manhattan is as premium as real estate gets in America, WHY WOULD THEY BUILD THE THING WITH A QUARTER OF THE OFFICE LEASE SPACE?
Maybe someone can explain it to me, because I certainly don't get it.
Salut,

ramvid01

May 12th, 2009, 04:42 PM

^^The twin towers were twins, so thus none of the buildings had 10 million sq feet by itself. Each twin however had 4.5 million sq feet, with the smaller buildings having the other million square feet.

The Freedom tower has less office space for a multitude of reasons, first it tappers as it goes up, second the core is more robust than the original towers which takes away from the floor space.

Finally the 10 million sq ft is being built still, if you combine tower 1 2 3 4 and I think 5 as well as part of that number.

Kumanovari

May 12th, 2009, 04:57 PM

god bless the united states of america

Nomadd22

May 12th, 2009, 04:59 PM

webeagle12

May 12th, 2009, 05:24 PM

Uaarkson

May 12th, 2009, 05:28 PM

I just can't get over how amazing this site will be when it's completed. The memorial + 4 towering, gleaming, futuristic skyscrapers is just an overwhelming sight to imagine. This will be the coolest place to hang out in manhattan by far.

pichuneke

May 12th, 2009, 06:03 PM

If you want to read (in spanish) what the newspaper "El Mundo" says...

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2009/05/12/comunicacion/1242080907.html

The google translation is here:

http://translate.google.es/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elmundo.es%2Felmundo%2F2009%2F05%2F12%2Fcomunicacion%2F1242080907.html&sl=es&tl=en&hl=es&ie=UTF-8

(Yes, I could try to translate to english but at this moment I don't have time :p )

Ebola

May 12th, 2009, 06:26 PM

Tower 5 is not getting build, that already been decided long time ago.

Ehh, somehow I doubt it. All I can say is that anything is possible.

This new news is from this week:

"The Port Authority is actively looking to develop World Trade Center Tower 5 as a luxury hotel and residential building, The Post has learned."
Sources familiar with the bi-state agency's plans say the market for a luxury hotel and apartments has emerged as a stronger bet than holding out for a commercial tenant.

Onn

May 12th, 2009, 08:08 PM

May 11th:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3523249670_e1892beacb_b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33965463@N00/3523249670/sizes/l/in/photostream/

kingsc

May 12th, 2009, 08:54 PM

I don't know whats going on in tower 5. The design was pretty bad

RKOwens

May 12th, 2009, 09:26 PM

I don't think Tower 5 will be a hotel/residential building. If they wanted to build a hotel/residential tower, they'd just build it on the current site of what's being called Liberty Park, the plot of land between between 90 West Street and Liberty Street. Hotels and residential buildings have to be very slim and slender and don't require a large footprint (think of the Millenium Hotel). The Tower 5 plot of land is too big. The Liberty Park land is the right size and it's also closer to the Hudson River, providing a more scenic view. A hotel on the Tower 5 site would be blocked on 3 sides by other buildings.

And yes, I know there are currently no plans to develop the plot of land next to Tower 5 (the "Liberty Park"). I'm just saying that it they did decide on building a hotel, this is the most likely location for it, not Tower 5.

backupcoolm4n

May 13th, 2009, 01:13 AM

does anyone know when the lobby level will begin construction, and when they will pass the lobby

webeagle12

May 13th, 2009, 03:42 AM

does anyone know when the lobby level will begin construction, and when they will pass the lobby

fall/winter 2009

they probably have lobby floor done late summer

helghast

May 13th, 2009, 04:26 AM

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=11594

TheShark

May 13th, 2009, 05:12 AM

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=11594

We've heard so much stuff about Tower 2-3 that I don't know if I should believe this or not

ramvid01

May 13th, 2009, 05:27 AM

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=11594

The media is again late on news. This has been no secret to anyone who has followed the development of this site in the last 3-4 months. Silverstein has been ringing the alarm that he doesn't have enough money and the PA has been considering retail stubs for a while. Only now does the media happen to latch on to this story (I hope for the sake of them and their terrible new reporting, that it actually does sell them more newspapers; would be a shame to have terrible news reporting and poor sales...).

Towards The Sun

May 13th, 2009, 07:57 PM

What's up with the Earthcam?

BloodyBandage

May 13th, 2009, 08:35 PM

It's just one of four towers. The new site will look like this.
http://www.fosterandpartners.com/content/projects/1427/T2_Memorial_View_Day.jpg

wow, most people like myself didn't realize there would be 4 towers. Glad to see they are rebuilding stronger than ever. nice pic..that skyline is going to be something special

germantower

May 13th, 2009, 08:52 PM

^^ it won't look like this if this goes through!

PA fires the first shot at Silverstein...

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...yscrapers.html

Port Authority wants to dump three of five proposed skyscrapers for WTC site

BY Douglas Feiden
May 11th 2009

The incredible shrinking World Trade Center will be cut back from five iconic skyscrapers to just two signature towers under a new Port Authority plan, the Daily News has learned.

Bludgeoned by recession and a war with developer Larry Silverstein, the Port Authority is proposing halving the office space it will build at Ground Zero - from 10 million square feet to 5 million, sources familiar with the plan say.

The sources say the agency's new vision for the site calls for scrapping one tower that would have been taller than the Empire State Building and nixing two others that would have dwarfed the nearby Woolworth Building.

In place of two Silverstein behemoths, each designed by a British lord and soaring 79 stories, the PA would erect a pair of short, squat buildings no taller than four or five floors - coined "stumps" - that could be used for retail shops, according to the proposal.

The vastly scaled-back site plan was disclosed to The News hours before Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver on Friday branded budget-busting delays and cost overruns at the 16-acre site an "embarrassment to our city, our state and our nation."

Mayor Bloomberg promptly followed up by inviting all warring parties to a summit meeting this week.

End of master plan

Revamping the sacred spaces where nearly 3,000 people were killed on 9/11 marks a dramatic break from the original 2003 Daniel Libeskind master plan, which called for a row of cascading office towers to replace the 10.4 million square feet of office space destroyed by terrorists.

Although the Freedom Tower will still climb to its symbolic 1,776 feet, and the Memorial will occupy the heart and soul of the site, the showcase buildings designed by world-class architects - on which Silverstein has already spent hundreds of millions of dollars - will be absent.

"It's getting smaller and smaller and smaller," said Enrique Saurez, a dishwasher from Venezuela who worked at Windows on the World, where 73 employees died. "What happened to their so-called master plan?"

What happened was a calamitous credit crisis that dried up bank financing for Silverstein and a fiscal crunch that has led to falling revenues at PA bridges, tunnels and airports - all amid an increase in borrowing costs.

With a squeeze on cash, lenders, Wall Street tenants, the agency and the builder launched a new round of heated talks to determine exactly who will build what - and on what terms it will be financed.

The result is a PA proposal that would:

- Reduce Tower 2, a planned 79-story, 1,270-foot Silverstein building designed by Lord Norman Foster, to a glorified, prettied-up stump.

- Effectively strip control of 71-story, 1,137-foot Tower 3, designed by Lord Richard Rogers, from Silverstein and reduce it to another stumpy building.

- Abandon all plans for Tower 5, slated to go on the toxic Deutsche Bank building site, for the foreseeable future.

- Underwrite about $1 billion in financing costs and rent abatements for Silverstein on 64-story, 975-foot Tower 4, which is the only building he'd get to construct.

- Go full steam ahead on Tower 4 - but force Silverstein to surrender most of his development fees, insurance proceeds and fine revenues in return.

The PA wouldn't comment on its specific proposals.

"We're committed to rebuilding downtown," said Stephen Sigmund, the authority's chief spokesman.

He said limited public resources were being directed toward "keeping the memorial and other public projects moving forward" - and that office and retail space would be built "to meet the market."

Screws put to Silverstein

Silverstein was initially entitled to build five buildings and 10 million square feet on the site, but agreed in 2006, under enormous political pressure, to surrender the Freedom Tower and one other building. He was also ready to give up one more tower - but not two.

"Our compromise proposal - under which we would own two buildings with [up to] 4 million square feet - is fair, especially since the Port Authority has collected more than $2 billion from Silverstein since 9/11," said Janno Lieber, president of Silverstein's World Trade Center Properties.

"Completing two buildings will assure that the WTC site is a finished, attractive and exciting place that helps - rather than hinders - downtown's revival," he added.

Sources familiar with Silverstein's position complained that the PA is acting unfairly both in setting the financial terms and in mothballing two Silverstein buildings.

A hefty chunk of Tower 4, the lone remaining building built solely by Silverstein, would be occupied by the PA, which would pay below-market rent, they point out. The agency is offering to hike its payments as part of the deal.

New delays to the long-stalled project loom, these sources warn: The PA's plan for stumps - to support retail and serve as stand-ins for towers that could one day be built on top of them - could take some two years to redesign and reengineer.

Since stump construction would take place in the same area as below-grade work on the $3.2 billion Transportation Hub, it could push back that project, now slated for completion in mid-2014, even further, these executives predict.

NellyUSA

May 13th, 2009, 09:02 PM

I've heard that they will build only 2 towers instead of 4 due to the effects of financial crisis :(

Zensteeldude

May 13th, 2009, 11:47 PM

Because of the delay in pouring the north core walls maybe?

I found the answer, the MEP shafts on the north side have much thicker walls (one wall on the west side is 5 feet thick) so it stands to reasion that they would be easier to cast with the main core walls.

Zensteeldude

May 13th, 2009, 11:55 PM

meh_cd

May 14th, 2009, 01:21 AM

This probably wont be the last time I have to post this but her it goes.

SILVERSTEIN IS UNDER CONTRACT TO PROVIDE 8 MILLION sq/ft OF OFFICE SPACE AT THE WTC SITE !

If he does not, he forfeits the 99 year lease he holds with the PA.

Towers 1 through 4 WELL GET BUILT as planed.

In fact the downturn should make the buildings cheaper to build (lower material costs)

Seems to me like this is shrewd maneuvering on the part of the PA to delay 2 and 3 long enough to kick him out of his lease. Then they can build on their own terms.

But I hope I'm wrong.

Zensteeldude

May 14th, 2009, 01:38 AM

Seems to me like this is shrewd maneuvering on the part of the PA to delay 2 and 3 long enough to kick him out of his lease. Then they can build on their own terms.

But I hope I'm wrong.

I would agree with you if not for the fact that the PA is delaying work on Towers 2 and 3 because they have not finished site work they are contracted to complete. The PA is paying Silverstein something like $10K a day (per site) for every day they delay in turning over the Towers 2 and 3 sites to him so he can start construction.

Sounds to me like the papers are hyping this stuff to sell papers.

If you study Tower 4 and the progress it has made there should be no question that Silverstein is committed to build as fast as possible.

ElCrioyo

May 14th, 2009, 02:02 AM

i can actually say now that progress is visible ..i guess its because the summer is arriving and they could construct faster!!

Nomadd22

May 14th, 2009, 02:03 AM

I would agree with you if not for the fact that the PA is delaying work on Towers 2 and 3 because they have not finished site work they are contracted to complete. The PA is paying Silverstein something like $10K a day (per site) for every day they delay in turning over the Towers 2 and 3 sites to him so he can start construction.

Sounds to me like the papers are hyping this stuff to sell papers.

If you study Tower 4 and the progress it has made there should be no question that Silverstein is committed to build as fast as possible.

Would you believe $300,000 a day?(total) Mostly to offset the $262,000 a day Larry pays in rent, but he pays the rent if the buildings are there or not, so the 300k every day is still a total loss to the PA. If you think that sounds ridiculous because they've paid a hundred times in penalties than it would have cost them to do the job and turn the sites over, you're not alone.
The claim that the PA is only trying to be financially responsible if absurd. They couldn't be more fiscally idiotic if they loaded money onto barges and dumped it into the Hudson.

Zensteeldude

May 14th, 2009, 02:48 AM

I left a zero out of my last post, $100K a day per site. At least that is the info I have.

I think it all boils down to papers trying to sell papers. Progress this summer should tell.

oli83

May 14th, 2009, 12:55 PM

Back to construction:
Does anybody know whether/when there will be fixed cranes installed on the memorial site?
And if so, at which position(s)?
Been wondering about this for a long time..

Msradell

May 14th, 2009, 01:30 PM

^^ From everything I've read there won't be a "tower" crane on the memorial site. Everything will be done with the mobile cranes which makes sense if you look at the designing the structure.

RKOwens

May 14th, 2009, 06:48 PM

I emailed Joe Woolhead asking him if the report about Towers 2 and 3 was true. Sadly, this is what he responded back with...

"Ryan,

Hope you're in good form...and that regards your studies too. Truly nonsense yet the real deal. A summit is in the works...

Here is a survey you could possibly forward. I think it's regrettable and laughable not to build Tower 3, the jewel among diamonds.

Joe"

By the "real deal", I think he just means that it is something being considered. This is the survey he asked me to forward:

http://mycrains.crainsnewyork.com/polls/2009/05/should-the-world-trade-center.html

I think you all know what link you need to visit and what you need to vote for. Also, I emailed one of the mechanical engineers on Tower 3 directly, but haven't heard back. Will let you know what she says if/when I hear back.

jhalsey

May 14th, 2009, 06:57 PM

UK newspapers are saying some of these towers are being cut back to 5 floor "stubs" because of the credit crunch. I hope this is not true.

Onn

May 14th, 2009, 07:51 PM

http://downtownexpress.com/de_315/fedup.html

‘Fed up’ with delays, Silver says build 3rd W.T.C. tower & share the risk

...Silver offered to broker an agreement to get the project back on track, but only if the Port agrees to help Silverstein build two of his three office towers, and if Silverstein invests more money in the project. He said the New York and New Jersey governors, who share control of the Port, the mayor, W.T.C. developer Larry Silverstein and Port executive director Chris Ward should all be at the table to resolve the dispute.

Last month, the Port and Silverstein took diametrically opposed positions: Silverstein, which has responsibility for Towers 2, 3 and 4, wanted the Port to help finance Tower 2 and Tower 4, but the Port only wanted to help with Tower 4, where the Port and city have committed to lease 1.2 million square feet of space. Instead of skyscrapers, the Port planned to build short retail podiums along Church St. where Towers 2 and 3 were supposed to rise.

On Friday, Silver demanded for the first time that Silverstein and the Port find a way to build Tower 2 in addition to Tower 4. Tower 2, in the northeast corner of the site, would “complete the circle” formed by One World Trade Center, the Freedom Tower, to the west, and Tower 4 to the south, Silver said.

Silver’s call for Tower 2 put him more in Silverstein’s camp than the Port Authority’s, and he almost sounded like Larry Silverstein as he spoke optimistically of Downtown’s recovery and used Silverstein’s 7 W.T.C. as an example of building for the future.

“What we have to do is be ready for the next boom cycle in the economy,” Silver said. He later told reporters, “We can’t sit around, wait for the economy to improve and then build into what may be the next downturn …by the time we complete it.”

RKOwens

May 14th, 2009, 09:49 PM

I thought we could use a little lift me up. It looks like the western half (at least) of the site is starting to take shape:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2240/3531137489_e6ebb38337_o.jpg

Uaarkson

May 14th, 2009, 10:43 PM

starting to take shape? they haven't done anything to it in months.

RKOwens

May 14th, 2009, 11:00 PM

starting to take shape? they haven't done anything to it in months.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Since about February, the South Pool has taken shape, the western end of the above-ground museum has taken shape, and a huge amount of the plaza has taken shape.

Ebola

May 14th, 2009, 11:19 PM

starting to take shape? they haven't done anything to it in months.

:lol: Ok.

Tag_one

May 15th, 2009, 10:03 AM

starting to take shape? they haven't done anything to it in months.

Indeed! They haven't done anything apart from installing steel beams,decking, pouring concrete, placing rebar and lifting forms and a crane. Nothing going on indeed. :lol:

kitayabi

May 15th, 2009, 10:31 AM

Nomadd22

May 15th, 2009, 02:14 PM

for the last 100 years the US has consecutively held the title of beeing home to the worlds tallest building until the petronas towers broke that record,and now the US best attempt at regaining that title is a tower which is 300 meters shorter then the worlds current title holder?

Take a look at the Petronas towers next to the Sears tower. Not everybody takes that claim seriously.
And nobody has ever claimed that the FT was an attempt to build the world's tallest tower. It's always been known that many taller ones were in the works.

ausie

May 15th, 2009, 02:19 PM

in the design wats happening with wtc6 cause there is designs (possibly not getting built) for the world trade centres: 1,2,3,4,5, ,7
i don't get it wat about wtc6??

Carlo[NL]

May 15th, 2009, 02:33 PM

^^ Americans can't count? :lol:

sundrop74

May 15th, 2009, 02:36 PM

I understand that building plans often change and evolve as they are being implemented, but if the "finalized" plans for the WTC site are not realized, it will be a great embarrassment for this country. Given the scale of skyscraper construction going on around the world, it seems ridiculous that one of the richest cities in one of the wealthiest countries on earth can't manage a large-scale, eye-catching development that pays tribute to both our fallen and our living.

musefreek

May 15th, 2009, 03:01 PM

I thought we could use a little lift me up. It looks like the western half (at least) of the site is starting to take shape:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2240/3531137489_e6ebb38337_o.jpg

perhaps very slightly, but overall i don't see any difference after months...

it's a tired debate...

Ebola

May 15th, 2009, 04:14 PM

perhaps very slightly, but overall i don't see any difference after months...

it's a tired debate...

^^ You're right; perhaps there was just a little progress, but overall I can hardly see any progress at all, especially within the past few months:

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7141/captureb.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9509/capturedp.jpg

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6568/capture333.jpg

Onn

May 15th, 2009, 05:54 PM

There is a large concrete pour going on today, west side of the tower I believe. It’s clearly visible from the webcam.

Nomadd22

May 15th, 2009, 06:57 PM

in the design wats happening with wtc6 cause there is designs (possibly not getting built) for the world trade centres: 1,2,3,4,5, ,7
i don't get it wat about wtc6??

There was never intended to be a 6. WTC7 has that number because that was the number of the old tower there. There are fewer office buildings in the new complex.

Uaarkson

May 15th, 2009, 07:00 PM

^^ You're right; perhaps there was just a little progress, but overall I can hardly see any progress at all, especially within the past few months[/CENTER]

Well yeah, sure, if you don't count the massive amounts of steel that have been put in place at the memorial, and 1wtc's core jumping by 100ft...

Ebola

May 15th, 2009, 07:29 PM

^^ I was being sarcastic...

herenthere

May 15th, 2009, 07:42 PM

UK newspapers are saying some of these towers are being cut back to 5 floor "stubs" because of the credit crunch. I hope this is not true.

Yeah, the local news mentioned this about a month ago - can't find the link though. Supposedly, they will just build the "stubs" until the market improves, and then continue the rest of the towers. This never made sense to me-construction costs are falling/steady because of increased competition and building now would take advantage of that. In addition, building later would just delay occupation of towers.

RKOwens

May 15th, 2009, 08:02 PM

Lot going on in the WORLD today. The B4 slab in 1WTC is being poured now. At around 8:15 this morning, they closed the formwork for the north core, suggesting that another pour is just around the corner. You can also see that they've started laying the formwork for the B4 floor on the north side of the building. Also, it looks like some kind of concrete structure is now up to street level in the far southwest corner (a section of the concrete-enclosed stairwell, maybe?).

Furthermore, they're now pouring the concrete at the plaza level of the memorial just north of the north tower pool... and doing it very quickly. Wow. Plus a huge quanity of additional steel has gone up at the memorial site. What a day for progress.

BTW, concerning WTC6, my guess is that Tower 5 will be placed on hold for a great while, maybe years, but will get built eventually (either as an office tower or hotel), and the Performing Arts Center will be referred to as WTC6. Some think it would be odd to call the Performing Arts Center WTC6, since it's not an office building, but remember that the original site had a Marriot Hotel which wasn't an office tower and was referred to as WTC3.

webeagle12

May 15th, 2009, 08:59 PM

WTC PATH Service to be Suspended from 6 to 11:30 a.m.

A major, multi-agency emergency response drill will be held at the World Trade Center PATH Station on Sunday morning, May 17.

The drill will require the World Trade Center PATH Station to be closed to customers from 6 to 11:30 a.m. on Sunday. PATH trains traveling from Newark to the World Trade Center will terminate at PATH's Exchange Place Station in Jersey City during the drill. Customers bound for Manhattan can take PATH's Journal Square to 33rd Street line via Hoboken, which will operate normally. All other PATH service will operate normally. Customers traveling between New Jersey and Lower Manhattan should visit http://www.panynj.gov/Commutingtravel/path/html/path-station-closure-may17.html to view alternate travel options.

In addition, Vesey Street from West Street to Church Street will be closed to pedestrians during the drill. Other neighboring streets will be closed to vehicles during the drill to accommodate emergency vehicles, which will be responding with lights and sirens as they would in an actual emergency.

The drill will begin at 8 a.m. and involve hundreds of emergency responders from the Port Authority Police, NYPD and FDNY. It is being coordinated jointly by the Port Authority and the New York City Office of Emergency Management. The drill will last for approximately two hours.

Media interested in covering the drill are asked to report to the corner of West Broadway and Vesey Street no later than 7:30 a.m. No vehicles will be allowed in this area. All media equipment will need to be carried to this location.

musefreek

May 15th, 2009, 09:42 PM

^^ I was being sarcastic...

ooh, hark at her!

Eric Offereins

May 15th, 2009, 10:40 PM

from flickr:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3367/3533502661_5dfa4a4205.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3538/3531192058_e4510c11d9.jpg?v=0

Zensteeldude

May 16th, 2009, 05:06 PM

From the bottom the floors are labeled B4, B4M, B3, B2, B1.

They were pouring the B1 level on the east side yesterday.:)

deez

May 16th, 2009, 05:23 PM

[QUOTE=Ebola;36715016]^^ You're right; perhaps there was just a little progress, but overall I can hardly see any progress at all, especially within the past few months:

Wow...that's pretty bad. a whole year. never mind the progress on the memorial--we're talkin tower here and yeah, little progress. 3 years in the making.

Onn

May 16th, 2009, 08:14 PM

The webcam shows that they are starting to take apart Vesey Street, where the beams for the Freedom Tower's north side are currently sticking out from the street.

http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/ss243/effthis/zero.jpg

Uaarkson

May 16th, 2009, 10:08 PM

S.T.Y AP

May 16th, 2009, 11:47 PM

very beautiful, very great, very GOOD!

deez

May 17th, 2009, 01:30 AM

[QUOTE=deez;36764796]

you have no idea how complex this site is, do you?

oh please. i'm tired of you optimists and your sticking up for the 'speed' of progress in the name of the all ambiguous 'complexity'. If you were told in 2006 that it'd only get to where it is now, 3 years later in 2009, you'd certainly
be a little confused. But throw out the word 'complex' and you just roll over
and accept it. If you don't think politics, not raw construction, has anything to do with the speed, even now, you're nuts.

Uaarkson

May 17th, 2009, 02:04 AM

[QUOTE=Uaarkson;36776504]

oh please. i'm tired of you optimists and your sticking up for the 'speed' of progress in the name of the all ambiguous 'complexity'. If you were told in 2006 that it'd only get to where it is now, 3 years later in 2009, you'd certainly
be a little confused. But throw out the word 'complex' and you just roll over
and accept it. If you don't think politics, not raw construction, has anything to do with the speed, even now, you're nuts.

I was referring to political complexity as well.

the progress is slow, no one is denying that, but you'd be nuts not to notice how quickly this project has been gaining steam just in the last few months

deez

May 17th, 2009, 05:46 AM

[QUOTE=deez;36784564]

I was referring to political complexity as well.

the progress is slow, no one is denying that, but you'd be nuts not to notice how quickly this project has been gaining steam just in the last few months

For those of us following this thing for years and years from day one, like myself, steam is hard to see these days, much less get giddy about. I'm steamed out, there's nothing left to defend, really. :goodbye:

germantower

May 17th, 2009, 10:49 AM

IMO the biggest problems of this project are.

1: That too many people will get involved in it.

2: Too many organisations, agencies etc. will make profit with it.

3: Silverstein as the leaser of the site, doesn't may rebuild how he will!

4: The arrogantic and money-grubbing behaviour of the port authority.

5: The irriatating bureaucracy, for example the security issues the NYPD has pointed out about the design of the lobbies!

6: The fact, that victims relatives will have somehow the right to particulary decide about what should happen on this site.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

If Silverstein had the power over the site from day one after 911 and if he was the only one to decide about this site with some needed aggreements with the government, this site would already be a new WTC. But no, all the factors named above have made this to the most ridiculous executed project ever! And now all the shit with, just to build 2 towers and build the others just as 5 floors tall stumpies, make it even worse and more risiculous! Move your asses, get this thing done and have guts to risk something!

ramvid01

May 17th, 2009, 01:50 PM

^^Sure, Silverstein would have rebuilt, but they would have been just 700 foot towers, not the towers we have now.

Ebola

May 17th, 2009, 03:58 PM

^^Sure, Silverstein would have rebuilt, but they would have been just 700 foot towers, not the towers we have now.

Aside from 1wtc, wasn't it SP that decided to design the other towers the way they are? After all, SP hired Maki, Rogers and Foster.

adam-albany

May 17th, 2009, 06:23 PM

1: That too many people will get involved in it.This was inevitable with a project of this size, invested with such historical and political importance. The number of players involved in the decisionmaking process has been scaled back radically so now there is only the Port Authority and Silverstein managing the project, with occasional interference from Mayor Bloomberg and Shelly Silver.2: Too many organisations, agencies etc. will make profit with it.I highly doubt any of the major projects at the WTC will make a profit for a long time, considering the weak real estate market. Any proceeds from the completed towers will go towards paying down the extraordinary costs of construction, and the PANYNJ will probably never make its money back on the transportation hub. The WTC Memorial will also be a net loss.3: Silverstein as the leaser of the site, doesn't may rebuild how he will!I'm not really sure what you're saying here; Silverstein's problem is that he can get the private financing he promised to build towers 2 and 3. It's that failure that has led to the idea of comercially-driven stubs as an alternative.4: The arrogantic and money-grubbing behaviour of the port authority.The PANYNJ has a finite amount of funds. It has already had to absorb escalating costs from its own projects, as well as contributing financing to Silverstein's 4WTC. The WTC site is also not the only project on the Authority's plate. Giving Silverstein the funding he's looking for would mean the PANYNJ would have to indefinitely postpone work on the badly-needed new terminal at LaGuardia and other mass transit projects would have to be significantly scaled back or also indefinitely delayed. Giving Silverstein what he wants would be trading infrastructure projects the area desperately needs for office towers that there's no market for. I would hate seeing the master plan gutted, but the Port Authority is emphasizing the right priorities. This situation is the result of Silverstein's failure, not the Port Authority's.5: The irriatating bureaucracy, for example the security issues the NYPD has pointed out about the design of the lobbies!It is a pain in the ass, for instance the glass-clad concrete bunker that will make up the first several floors of the Freedom Tower. However, if something happens the same people bitching about the delays would be bitching about the government's failure to prevent it.6: The fact, that victims relatives will have somehow the right to particulary decide about what should happen on this site.This I agree with. I don't think the U.S. government should have compenstated the families of the victims because it set a bad precedent, and I think the families' input should have been limited to the memorial. But that's all in the past now, anyway.If Silverstein had the power over the site from day one after 911 and if he was the only one to decide about this site with some needed aggreements with the government, this site would already be a new WTC.Why should one private developer have had dictator-like control over a vast sums of public money, in addition to his own, and get to decide what to do with one of the most significant sites in the entire country? There's no question he beat the pack when it came to delivering 7WTC on time. But nothing since then leads to believe that he's been a help instead of a hindrince. It was once the Port Authority finally took control of oversight for the redevelopment and started issuing regular reports to Governor Patterson that things got moving. Now the pit is over half developed and almost all projects are on track to hit their deadlines.

alex.german

May 17th, 2009, 09:23 PM

^^ here we go again

Msradell

May 18th, 2009, 03:37 AM

Why should one private developer have had dictator-like control over a vast sums of public money, in addition to his own, and get to decide what to do with one of the most significant sites in the entire country? There's no question he beat the pack when it came to delivering 7WTC on time. But nothing since then leads to believe that he's been a help instead of a hindrince. It was once the Port Authority finally took control of oversight for the redevelopment and started issuing regular reports to Governor Patterson that things got moving. Now the pit is over half developed and almost all projects are on track to hit their deadlines.

To start with I think the poster's thoughts were that he could've done it with private money if he was able to start immediately instead of having all the interference. Even if he was using public money if he could've ovoid in all of the bureaucracy it would cost a whole lot less than it will now and would be completed by now. He certainly hasn't been a hindrince, only the politicians, unions and survivors family's have done that. As demonstrated by how fast WTC4 is progressing once he starts things move! Their only on track to hit the deadlines that have been reestablished several times. The original timeline and deadlines are long gone.

adam-albany

May 18th, 2009, 04:04 AM

To start with I think the poster's thoughts were that he could've done it with private money if he was able to start immediately instead of having all the interference.Well then, the original poster was sorely mistaken. There is no way the entire complex could have built with private money, even before the bottom fell out of the economy. Even if the money was there, the trains running through the site would have required some public participation.

4WTC is a substantially easier building to construct than 1WTC; aside from not having an active subway line running underneath it, the smaller scale of the building doesn't require the same complexity for the foundations and doesn't make it as much of a target.

And if we're resetting the clock to day one of 4WTC's construction, all of the projects have zipped right along (except for Silverstein's 2WTC and 3WTC).

All of which is neither here nor there, since the project did ensure years of bureaucratic wrangling and delays. Once the PANYNJ finally committed to firm deadlines last year, progress stayed on track.

ramvid01

May 18th, 2009, 04:47 AM

Aside from 1wtc, wasn't it SP that decided to design the other towers the way they are? After all, SP hired Maki, Rogers and Foster.

That was only after the Port Authority wanted to wrest control of the site from Silverstein. Initially Silverstein was going to build a group of 700 foot towers. While Pataki finally picked the design, Silverstein was committed to building these much smaller buildings.

Then came the whole fiasco between Silverstein and the Port, which led to a revision of the buildings. It was only during these negotiations that a deal was struck that Silverstein had to build out the 10 million sq feet, which forced them to up the height of all the towers. And since Silverstein wanted the best in architectual design, the architects he picked were more inclined to build taller not fatter, since it looks better.

Msradell

May 18th, 2009, 02:05 PM

There is no way the entire complex could have built with private money, even before the bottom fell out of the economy. Even if the money was there, the trains running through the site would have required some public participation.
Why? Other than scheduling the building isn't really affected by the trains. The foundation just has to span the tracks which really isn't a major consideration. He Would've only had to pay for the building, the track's and the that the responsibility.

4WTC is a substantially easier building to construct than 1WTC; aside from not having an active subway line running underneath it, the smaller scale of the building doesn't require the same complexity for the foundations and doesn't make it as much of a target.
1WTC didn't have to be that complex. If the police department and politicians have stayed out of the way and not interfered it would've been much simpler. Much of the complexity was added as a result of their interference. The only reason 1WTC has become a target is because of the design which was mostly a result of the families of victims, not for necessities in the design.

And if we're resetting the clock to day one of 4WTC's construction, all of the projects have zipped right along (except for Silverstein's 2WTC and 3WTC).
Not a valid point, the only reason 4WTC was so late in starting (as well as 2WTC and 3WTC) was because of delays caused by outside influence. If Silverstein had been building everything 1WTC would be complete by now and the others well underway.

All of which is neither here nor there, since the project did ensure years of bureaucratic wrangling and delays. Once the PANYNJ finally committed to firm deadlines last year, progress stayed on track.
Bureaucracy which has greatly increased the cost of the projects for everyone including Silverstein which is why he now needs additional funding. The PANYNJ committed to several other "firm" deadlines in the past, why does everyone think they will complete everything by the most recent deadline? Actually they are not deadlines at all, they're just targets, nothing is going to happen if they are missed.

germantower

May 18th, 2009, 02:13 PM

Bravo Msdarell, VERY VERY VERY good points you have mentioned! I think we are about the same opinion about this project.

Zensteeldude

May 18th, 2009, 11:22 PM

And now for something far more enjoyable, visible progress.

Check the earthcam, another climbing form is going to be installed on the north half of the core. It's frame is sitting on Vesey St. being assembled.

My 2 cents worth on why it's taking so long. Just look at #7 and how fast it went up, but then again, nobody died when it came down.

PS: Tower One shares alot of details with #7. (Core design, stairs, curtain wall, entrances, etc.)

Msradell

May 19th, 2009, 03:05 AM

......Tower One shares alot of details with #7. (Core design, stairs, curtain wall, entrances, etc.)
? Are you sure about this, I thought the first floor areas of FT (1WTC) were redesigned to make that much stronger for protection against terrorist attacks. I don't believe 7WTC has these features.

If the designs are the same (or even close) it's even more reason why construction should be proceeding a lot faster than it is, especially when you look at how fast 7WTC was built! Oh wait, I forgot that 7WTC was built by private industry instead of by governmental bureaucracy.

ramvid01

May 19th, 2009, 03:14 AM

If you thought governmental bureaucracy would not happen on a site that a public agency owns and leases to a private developer, and where a national tragedy happened, then sir I must say you are clueless.

Onn

May 19th, 2009, 04:10 AM

stewartrama

May 19th, 2009, 04:11 AM

delete***

Uaarkson

May 19th, 2009, 05:52 AM

Nomadd22

May 19th, 2009, 01:37 PM

I have to say, at this point, who cares about the World Trade Center reconstruction. It's been a decade since the horiffic attacks, and at this time, in a recession, in a world scared by terror, in our globalized state, the symbolism of rebuilding this development is gone. At this point, while we would all like to see it completed, I know that I don't feel like we are proving anything to the world by building the site

If you noticed that your post was around the 6,000th for this one building, you might realize how moronic that question was. The world will always have Charlie Sierras who make a religion out of being terrified of everything they see. They don't matter. They're just a passing annoyance to the people with the guts to dream and build and live.
People who can only live their lives when times are easy will never be more than a bug fart in the winds of history.

Buyckske Ruben

May 19th, 2009, 03:31 PM

very beautiful, very great, very GOOD!

It was about time !!! :bash: Finaly a bit of progress! :nuts:

Carlo[NL]

May 19th, 2009, 08:32 PM

Latest WTC Update:
Ask the PA about the construction of the Vehicle Security Center at the WTC. To submit a question, visit www.wtcprogress.com.

JoshuaSantos

May 20th, 2009, 03:06 AM

I'm really looking forward to seeing this completed. Have to say that I'm surprised at how many people are downplaying the significance of the new WTC buildings in this thread.

Onn

May 20th, 2009, 03:26 AM

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=123628&page=249

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3398/3545605251_48c5d48c6c_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/77/202631900_047ba88411_o.jpg

buildmilehightower

May 20th, 2009, 02:58 PM

^^ is that concrete barrier surrounding the waterfall the ONLY barrier there is? or will there be more?

Nomadd22

May 20th, 2009, 03:32 PM

^^ is that concrete barrier surrounding the waterfall the ONLY barrier there is? or will there be more?

As low as it is in the concept, you can bet they'll have something more there to keep people from tumbling in.

Zensteeldude

May 20th, 2009, 04:45 PM

? Are you sure about this, I thought the first floor areas of FT (1WTC) were redesigned to make that much stronger for protection against terrorist attacks. I don't believe 7WTC has these features.

If the designs are the same (or even close) it's even more reason why construction should be proceeding a lot faster than it is, especially when you look at how fast 7WTC was built! Oh wait, I forgot that 7WTC was built by private industry instead of by governmental bureaucracy.

#7 has the fetures, Tower One didn't. All they had to do to Tower One was move the streets further away and add some blast walls.

#7 was built so fast becouse no one died in the old one !

germantower

May 20th, 2009, 06:14 PM

^^ what is that for a ridiculous argument to say, another building was built faster because noone died in the former building that stood on it's site? What have victims to do with the construction speed? BTW, they can install as many safety facilities as they want, IF another group of insane terrorists will knock the new center down, than they will!

Onn

May 20th, 2009, 06:17 PM

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/3541451250_905435f734_b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maxcelcat/3541451250/in/set-72157618391993120/

RKOwens

May 20th, 2009, 06:28 PM

^^ what is that for a ridiculous argument to say, another building was built faster because noone died in the former building that stood on it's site? What have victims to do with the construction speed?

That's an incredibly offensive and ignorant thing to say. Whether 2,749 people died on the site of the former building or whether zero people died on the site of the former building is hugely important. No, not because of CONSTRUCTION speed, but because of deciding what the heck should be done with that land.

BTW, they can install as many safety facilities as they want, IF another group of insane terrorists will knock the new center down, than they will!

Again, what a stupid thing to say. No doubt there are insane terrorists who would love to set a nuclear weapon off in New York City. Does that mean we should abandon NYC because if the terrorists want to do it, they're going to find a way? They tried to destroy the U.S. Capital Building on 9/11. Should we abandon it as well? Don't put the intelligence of a bunch of dumbass terrorists above the minds of America's best engineers.

MelbourneMaverick

May 20th, 2009, 06:41 PM

I find it incredibly offensive and ignorant that you would call whoever is responsible for 9/11 a bunch of dumbasses,

Come on guys stop being so godam sensitive:cheers:

Uaarkson

May 20th, 2009, 07:00 PM

You'd be crazy to think there's even a remote possibility of another 9/11-style attack in New York. As soon as the air force got word of a hijacking, the plane would be blown out of the fucking sky.

Onn

May 20th, 2009, 07:31 PM

You'd be crazy to think there's even a remote possibility of another 9/11-style attack in New York. As soon as the air force got word of a hijacking, the plane would be blown out of the fucking sky.
Unless the air force does it themselves. :lol:

Seriously though, I think the new WTC is going to be New York City's least area to worry about.

EricIsHim

May 20th, 2009, 07:45 PM

Saw this in the news today:

Silverstein and Officials Talk Trade Center -- Again
Developer of Troubled Site of Sept. 11 Attacks Appears to Have Edge as Building Effort Proceeds

By CHRISTINA S.N. LEWIS

New York developer Larry Silverstein appears to have the upper hand as he prepares for yet another high-level negotiation with New York and New Jersey officials on the redevelopment of the World Trade Center site.

To see whole article, click here http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124277646578237023.html?mod=dist_smartbrief

EricIsHim

May 20th, 2009, 07:50 PM

Here is another one:

May 20, 2009
Groups Seek to Stop Public Financing of New Towers at Ground Zero
By CHARLES V. BAGLI

Some of the city’s largest civic groups jumped into the simmering dispute at ground zero on Tuesday, saying that government should improve transportation networks downtown and not put any more money into the development of speculative office towers on the 16-acre site.

To see whole article, click here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/nyregion/20wtc.html?_r=1

RKOwens

May 20th, 2009, 07:56 PM

You'd be crazy to think there's even a remote possibility of another 9/11-style attack in New York. As soon as the air force got word of a hijacking, the plane would be blown out of the fucking sky.

Actually, there's no chance of there ever even being a hijacking to begin with again, in America or anywhere else. Now that people know that "we are returning to the airport" is a lie and that that "bomb" is a fake, passengers don't just sit idle anymore and let the hijackers have control of the plane. They're going to fight back. This happened with Flight 93 and even in a few cases since, when a lone nutjob went crazy on the plane and other passengers jumped on them.

spectre000

May 21st, 2009, 01:35 AM

RKOwens

May 21st, 2009, 01:58 AM

Seriously, can we please stop with all the terrorist - 9/11 - security posts. If you want to talk terrorism and 9/11 I'm sure there are many other forums online for you to express your opinions. Let's not have this thread unnecesarily locked.

Could a moderator please delete any off topic posts as well?

Um, are you serious? This thread has been extremely slow in the past few days. I think it's fine to talk about other aspects of 1WTC, like how safe it will be, when there's not much to talk about as far as construction. Nothing in this thread says the topic has to be about 1WTC's construction, it's simply a thread about 1WTC. There's no reason to ask the mods to delete these posts.

spectre000

May 21st, 2009, 02:49 AM

^^ Fair enough... I don't visit this site for the political talk, I come for the pictures and construction insights... But whenever the thread slows down I guess others are free for another bitch out session and talk about the same old things like the slow progress, terrorists, politics, economy, PA vs. SP.... wonderful... :ohno:

Please don't take offense for me to ask the mods to clean up political posts... just my personal preference (and I'm sure many others) to not have this forum filled with those particular comments.

Anyway, it's nice to see the Vessey street sections being removed. I hope we'll see new perimeter steel installed soon.

adam-albany

May 21st, 2009, 04:27 AM

I wasn't going to get back into it, but since things are slow...
Why? Other than scheduling the building isn't really affected by the trains. The foundation just has to span the tracks which really isn't a major consideration. He Would've only had to pay for the building, the track's and the that the responsibility.The train affects EVERYTHING below grade. The reason the north core of 1WTC is so much lower than the south core is because of the subway line. The subway runs continuously, 24/7. It causes movement and vibrations, and it means that living breathing people are running directly underneath an active contruction zone every couple of minutes. Had it been a possibility to shut down the subway and PATH lines through the site for weeks at a time, contruction on 1WTC, the transportation hub, and the memorial would have proceeded MUCH faster.1WTC didn't have to be that complex. If the police department and politicians have stayed out of the way and not interfered it would've been much simpler. Much of the complexity was added as a result of their interference. The only reason 1WTC has become a target is because of the design which was mostly a result of the families of victims, not for necessities in the design.Then I'm sure you would vollunteer to handle the families of the victims if the simpler design had been the target of vehicle bombing, as the original WTC was in 1993. These changes were made to potentially save lives. Had the police department been included from the start, things would have run much smoother.Not a valid point, the only reason 4WTC was so late in starting (as well as 2WTC and 3WTC) was because of delays caused by outside influence. If Silverstein had been building everything 1WTC would be complete by now and the others well underway.You could make the same argument about 1WTC. The Port Authority only consolidated control of the public part of the redevelopment in late 2006. The remaining partnerships -- with the MTA, NYSDOT, the memorial foundation, the city of New York, etc. -- would have been necessary under state law and city ordinance, regardless of whether the PA or Silverstein were at the helm of the project.Bureaucracy which has greatly increased the cost of the projects for everyone including Silverstein which is why he now needs additional funding.Skyrocketing building and labor prices greatly increased the cost of the projected for everyone. The funding he is seeking now isn't a problem because it's additional funding, it's a problem because he can't lock down the private investment that he promised when taking on 2WTC, 3WTC and 4WTC. Noone wants to finance three massive office towers when a global recession has absolutely decimated the market for office space. Because many of the companies that would have occupied those buildings have either gone bankrupt, fallen under government conservatorship, or been merged out of existence there's no confidence that the office market will rebound when the rest of the economy does.
In short, Silverstein is having problem getting the money because the buildings he wants to build are neither needed nor wanted by the market.The PANYNJ committed to several other "firm" deadlines in the past, why does everyone think they will complete everything by the most recent deadline? Actually they are not deadlines at all, they're just targets, nothing is going to happen if they are missed.Because those deadlines were foisted on the PA by politicans like Governor Pataki. These were the first deadlines with firm milestones, based on the facts on the ground and the contracts as written. It's worth noting that all of the projects under the PA's responsibility are currently on track and meeting all milestones. The only milestone the PA has failed to meet involved clearing the site for one of the two buildings that might not be built as more than stubs anyway.