Interesting to see how the design of Freedom Tower evoluted. I wish Freedom Tower rooftop would be tall as August 2003 design with spires on it. That would look very taller.

^ Building something new is a way to say that we've moved on. Rebuilding the twins as they were is saying that we're sweeping it under the rug and basically say that it never happened.

And the bird cage was a giant clusterfuck.
http://citybloc.com/featured/building_projects_images/FreedomTower-ny.jpg

Oh..and here is a cool pic of the evolution of the Freedom Tower:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/01/03/opinion/20051230_oped_TOWERS.gif

Is it neccessary to have such a massive Base, consisting of concrete and steel?? Y do they have that? Fear of attacks?

^^ Yeah, to show that it is defiant.

Oh, not STILL pages about which design this, or which design that? :ohno: Everything HAS been said over & over & over & over for the last 4 years. See this thread in a couple of months. :runaway:

Thanks Carlitos for updates.

Who on earth was advocating rebuilding the original WTC? I certainly wasn't. And HWDP was merely suggesting building two new twin buildings, not rebuilding the exact same twin towers as before.

I agree with this. I like the idea of #1 being 1776, #2 & #3 being twins, and do whatever with #4.

I think it would have been a tribute and an honor to the twins that fell.

That all said, at least they're rebuilding, and the 1776 is a nice touch.

I agree with this. I like the idea of #1 being 1776, #2 & #3 being twins, and do whatever with #4.

I think it would have been a tribute and an honor to the twins that fell.

That all said, at least they're rebuilding, and the 1776 is a nice touch.

i agree...it maynot be the tallest anything...but ist the symbolic references that mean so much more thaN stats or a title...this is OUR FREEDOM TOWER!!

I agree with this. I like the idea of #1 being 1776, #2 & #3 being twins, and do whatever with #4.

I think it would have been a tribute and an honor to the twins that fell.

That all said, at least they're rebuilding, and the 1776 is a nice touch.
i think they should build the roof hight to 1776 and a spire or something to 2001ft. i would like that better.

i think they should build the roof hight to 1776 and a spire or something to 2001ft. i would like that better.

That would have kicked some ass :banana:

I never said you.

FM 2258: The footprints of Ground Zero is hallowed earth. You don't touch it.

People need to understand that any sort of twin towers will NOT BE BUILT. After all the delays and design changes, the Freedom Tower is under construction. Why can't anyone be satisfied?

They're touching it right now. Why not get some twins on those footprints and get back to business. With the way the new complex is going with the original footprints open it would make great business sense. This is some valuable land we're talking about here. Too valuable to become two square tree lined ponds.

Some 2001ft twin tower replicas or taller would fit in perfectly. :)

^^ yep. and it would have been even more symbolic. 1776 for our independence and 2001 for the date of the attack.

^^ yep. and it would have been even more symbolic. 1776 for our independence and 2001 for the date of the attack.

I don't think this is the right orientation or scale but this would look beautiful if we got some taller twin replicas in the complex.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/Texas90/Freedom-Tower-21.jpg

I dont even care if they are twins. i just wish they had the hight i said earlier.

Interesting to see how the design of Freedom Tower evoluted. I wish Freedom Tower rooftop would be tall as August 2003 design with spires on it. That would look very taller.

"Evoluted"? lol. You mean "evolved".

Looks like they have poured the concrete on the floor on the furthest section of the base from the camera. You can see the difference in color on the webcam and what seems to be some kind of formwork for that side of the site.

It is hard to determine if they really did pour the base but the indications given by the picture seem to sow that it was. I also believe that the route 9a to the south is critical to the construction of the tower as its connected to it. Maybe they were waiting for it progess before starting the real work on the tower.

You can also see that they've installed alot more rebar for the core just to the south of the cranes.

For the first time, I was about to complain about no progres on the tower itself, but now I see the core is coming to shape. It won't be that long before it's at grade.

indeed, it seems the core is ready for rising finally

WTC Thursday August 30. 2007



And the beat goes on!! :banana:

A hazy day here in Gotham....
the site still does not provide any decent spot where to take pics of One World Trade Center construction...
but the construction still going on..big difference from the last time i was there last month.....by December this shit will be out of street level!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture197.jpg

;)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture201.jpg


:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture200.jpg


:) the freedom tower white column is halfwway buried in concrete now..for eternity....I HOPE

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture199.jpg


:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture198.jpg


:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture206.jpg


:)

another eyesore still around...besides 130 Liberty st

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture202.jpg

7 WTC is really an awesome building. I like it more each time I see it.

yes it is...my ONLY problem with this tower is the street level is totally DEAD...just 4 huge walls.....no stores..

:ohno:

Wow, I'm really glad some real progress is now happening! Lets hope it speeds up, I certainly look forward to seeing it rise!

over at ssp someone posted this diagram
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2004/12/15/nyregion/blocks.184.1.500.jpg

is it possible the thingy they're building now is the level b3 walkway under west st to the winter garden?

edit: actually looking at it again i notice on level b2, it is open below down to the walk way. and in the pics carlos posted it's not tall enough for 2 story

so what are they building beyond the columns??..the museum??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture199.jpg

route 9A underpass

Why are they wasting so much valuable space for such a large memorial and park?, a small memorial is ok, but one that takes up half the space, what a waste.
The "Liberty" park is highly unnecessary, the name could also be a bit more original.

They are building route 9a that connects from the new path station to the winter garden. That is what is behind the columns. Thanks for the pic Carlos :). Always appreciated.

^
really???

Why are they wasting so much valuable space for such a large memorial and park?, a small memorial is ok, but one that takes up half the space, what a waste.
The "Liberty" park is highly unnecessary, the name could also be a bit more original.


i kinda agree with you....all that space, but the park will be nice...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture201.jpg

Now I see a little of progress in the construction.

they look like ants :lol:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture199.jpg

Why are they wasting so much valuable space for such a large memorial and park?, a small memorial is ok, but one that takes up half the space, what a waste.
The "Liberty" park is highly unnecessary, the name could also be a bit more original.

Every busy urban centers need a open space for workers, tourists, and residents to breathe from their busy daily lives.

WOW! Great pictures! :cheers:

thx carlos, great pics :)

The WTC Construction Video Project


High Res Version:
640x480 (http://www.warclan.net/Downloads/Freedom_Tower.wmv)


Updated through 8/31

There's been weather and webcam issues for the past 2 weeks, so the second half of August isn't pretty.

Where's TalB? We haven't had a threadcrap from him in a few pages. Did the progress scare him off?

hey Dwalden, is it possible for you to make the Freedom Tower video with the original resolution? i know it would be much bigger but you could see much more details

hey Dwalden, is it possible for you to make the Freedom Tower video with the original resolution? i know it would be much bigger but you could see much more details

It would be possible, but it would take a few things I don't currently have.

1. I use Windows Movie Maker and it's currently at the max res for that program. I could use a copy of Adobe Premiere I have, but I don't know the program at all.

2. Once I figured out that, I'd need somewhere else to host it because the file would be huge.

seems like a lot of work up coming for these workers...not to mention a possible slow winter for us...lol...but 2 good months of contruction till then..hopefully they will be forgiving on them

It would be possible, but it would take a few things I don't currently have.

1. I use Windows Movie Maker and it's currently at the max res for that program. I could use a copy of Adobe Premiere I have, but I don't know the program at all.

2. Once I figured out that, I'd need somewhere else to host it because the file would be huge.

i'll try to find a program to make it myself :).

cool :cheers:

I see little progress

I agree with the other poster..

A roof height of 1776
And a spire height of 2001 will be much more symbolic.

http://www.wsw.com/webcast/cc/panynj7/

Another construction video from the PANYNJ.

yea 1776 the roof would make the building a lot better

A roof height of 1776
And a spire height of 2001 will be much more symbolic.

I fully agree with this. :banana:

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! at least 3 people agree with me!

i feel so loved.

their so slow with this.

I hate to admit it but I agree, even though height is not necessarily a huge factor for me. If that ever does become the plan (which it won't), there would have to be something special at the 1368 foot mark to symbolize the twins.

I agree also, what can we do to make our opinions be considered form a petition on how symbolic roof height really is?? Would they listen?

I agree, but they won't listen to us :ohno:^^

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!! at least 3 people agree with me!

i feel so loved.

Please read my post of July 30, 2007, that I am reporting here:


I always felt it would be perfect with a roof height of 1776 and a spire height of 2001...

I perfectly agree. The spire height might be 2011 or 2012, though (the year when the tower is ready).
From 1368 to 1776 feet, something like the top of the ESB could be made, and then, from 1776 to 2001+, a large spire like in the current project. Every tower in the world is cheating like that at this time, so I can't see why FT should not!

Fabrizio
Italy

I agree with the other poster..

A roof height of 1776
And a spire height of 2001 will be much more symbolic.

YES!!..I could not agree more with this. If the designers of the Freedom Tower are concerned with the significance of the height of the building then there are far better ways, in my opinion, to architecturally express that. A structural rooftop of 1776 ft with a spire to 2001 would be very appropriate. Another idea would be a building with a roof top height of 2001 ft. Lastly, and I dont think US height restrictions would allow, a building with one foot for every victim that died on 911. I believe that the total number of victims from that day was 2976. (I apologize if that number is wrong) That height would, in my opinion, have the most significance. The building would not only pay a personal tribute to all the victims and their families but would also better fit with the adjacent memorial park..... and of course it would surpass the height of the Burj Dubai.

all these 'symbolic heights' are fucking stupid. just built a tall pretty building for us and get it done quickly.

all these 'symbolic heights' are fucking stupid. just built a tall pretty building for us and get it done quickly.

Exactly! Symbolism works best when it's subtle. I mean, the complex has a memorial! Isn't that more than enough? The general public will be oblivious as to the height of 1WTC.

all these 'symbolic heights' are fucking stupid. just built a tall pretty building for us and get it done quickly.

I agree. Only reason why people want it to be 1,776 feet tall to the roof, is because it's tall. Nevermind that there is a memorial already planned.

I came up with that idea some time ago (1,776 foot roof, 2,001 foot spire). . . I think in 2005.

It would also, IMHO, be neat to have three spires, one at 1,973', one at 1,993', and one at 2,001'. But that might be overboard.

Well i like that height because it is symbolic and obviously because its TALL!! Im sure when people visit the memorial or the towers it would have an explanation of the heights anyways.

In the past year WABC TV news in NYC was still saying the FT was going to be the world's tallest building when finished and Burj Dubai was already over 110 floors up.:nuts:

Published: July 29, 2002

To the Editor:

Re ''Back to the Drawing Board,'' by Susan S. Szenasy (Op-Ed, July 23):

Some years ago, Frank Lloyd Wright proposed the construction of a mile-high building. Obviously, such a proposal requires special circumstances to merit serious consideration. The World Trade Center site fulfills the requirements.

A mile-high structure is bold and signifies our faith in the future. There is no need for us to ''run for cover'' and offer diffidence and apologies.

New York City does not need a compromise plan. A mile-high structure would assert our conviction to move emphatically on and up, not backward and down. It would honor the memory of those who died. The structure should be named the 9-11 Tower.

JOHN W. COBB
Tuxedo Park, N.Y., July 24, 2002

^^ yeah right!!!
i wish.

how great wud ut be?

^bullshit isn't on-topic



From July 2007

http://www.pathrestoration.com/drp/images/gallery/wtcth/2007/07/fredmtwr04.jpg

lowest floor, B4, I think

I agree. Only reason why people want it to be 1,776 feet tall to the roof, is because it's tall. Nevermind that there is a memorial already planned.

I find it interesting that some people on this forum find it ridiculous or 'bullshit' that others would like to see the Freedom Tower taller. These people must not be very familiar with the history of NYC. :ohno:

all these 'symbolic heights' are fucking stupid. just built a tall pretty building for us and get it done quickly.

Strongly Agree!!!

great pictures of the construction on the Freedom Tower, will you be able to get more this week ?, can anyone tell me what exactly those cranes do ?, thx

I find it interesting that some people on this forum find it ridiculous or 'bullshit' that others would like to see the Freedom Tower taller. These people must not be very familiar with the history of NYC. :ohno:

because when they say that it's like listening to a broken record. they've said it over and over and over and it's not going to change anything. especially since it's off-topic in this thread.

Its good to see progress on this project. How long will take the foundations stage right before starting to grow up?

I bet by the end of this month the core will have risen significantly.

so what are they building beyond the columns??..the museum??
That is a shot of the new pathway.

how har they going to pull off building this complex at the same time? Alot of trucks everywhere..

can anyone tell me exactly is being worked on where the freedom tower is going to be, i see the two cranes there but what exactly are they working on now?

can anyone tell me exactly is being worked on where the freedom tower is going to be, i see the two cranes there but what exactly are they working on now?
It looks like the foundation and sub-basement levels.

Mike

ok thank you mgk290, i cant wait until the Freedom Tower begins to rise above street level

Please be carefull which side is being shown b/c there were people here confused the transit hub and the pathway for being the FT when they clearly are not.

Nice to see this tower is well underway. Im looking forward to seeing it rise above the other towers in the downtown area.

LookinGood

One of the things I'm looking forward to most about this tower is the cladding. The cladding in the renders looks terribly idealistic and I strongly doubt that it will resemble that at all. So I'm waiting for a big surprise come the time they begin the cladding!

Can this building withstand a 9/11 type terrorist attack?

Can this building withstand a 9/11 type terrorist attack?

Do you really think it (or any other one) could? ^^

withstand??? not really! but construction can give people enough time to leave the building to safety before it collapses or burns down!
for this reason for example the staircases are much more massive-walled in the FT than they were in the old twins!

Can this building withstand a 9/11 type terrorist attack?

I don't think there will be another attack of that sort. Hijacking planes is probably a thing of the past. At least for a while. Because before people had a reasonable expectation of surviving an airplane hijacking. Now, if a plane did get hijacked people would figure that it was going to be used as a weapon and die trying to overcome the hijackers.

I can't recall any airplane hijackings since 9/11. I could be wrong, of course. :shrug:

^^
Yeah, I don't worry about airplanes anymore. The one I have to worry about are the ships especially cargo ships passing Hudson River each day. They are not fully inspected and they carry hundreds of containers.

Do you really think it (or any other one) could? ^^Any steel buildings can't withstand this kind oif attack(like WTC), but concrete buildings has a very high chance of withstanding 9/11 type attack. The reason WTC collapse is that its mainly made of steel and the huge fire has melt its supporting steel so it collapse.

Any steel buildings can't withstand this kind oif attack(like WTC), but concrete buildings has a very high chance of withstanding 9/11 type attack. The reason WTC collapse is that its mainly made of steel and the huge fire has melt its supporting steel so it collapse.

The ESB suffered a 9/11 style collision. Admittedly, the airplane wasn't going as fast, or as big. Also the ESB was way overbuilt. The unique construction of the WTCs made them vulnerable to an airplane attack. The Sears Tower would have probably survived.

The ESB suffered a 9/11 style collision. Admittedly, the airplane wasn't going as fast, or as big. Also the ESB was way overbuilt. The unique construction of the WTCs made them vulnerable to an airplane attack. The Sears Tower would have probably survived.The Sears is made of steel mainly, right? Then I believe it also has a high chance of collapsing but may stnad for a bit longer than WTC. I believe concrete buildings like Burj Dubai can withstand such attacks.

TRIDENT TRUE SYMBOL
WTC BEAMS TO GRACE MEMORIAL ENTRANCE


http://www.nypost.com/seven/09042007/photos/news004.jpg

By TOM TOPOUSIS


RISING AGAIN: Two steel trident beams that stood in the aftermath of the Twin Towers' collapse on 9/11 will be erected inside the Ground Zero museum pavilion.September 4, 2007 -- Two of the World Trade Center's tridents - a signature architectural element from the base of the Twin Towers - will be returned to the Memorial Plaza at Ground Zero, where they will stand sentry inside the museum pavilion, The Post has learned.

The massive steel tridents, standing up to nine stories tall, have been chosen as the iconic symbols that will be seen by millions of visitors expected to arrive at the World Trade Center Memorial after it opens in late 2009.

Since the early days of planning for the memorial, designers had been urged to include an iconic artifact as part of the public plaza at the memorial, said Alice Greenwald, director of the World Trade Center Museum.

"We looked at a number of different artifacts, and we all felt the tridents epitomized something accurate about the event, but also hopeful," Greenwald said of efforts to memorialize the events of 9/11, while painting an inspiring message of rebirth.

The tridents were formed by massive steel beams rising from the base of the towers along the outside walls. At the seventh story, the aluminum-clad beams divided into three smaller beams that continued to the 110th floor of each tower.

After the terror attacks, several sections of the towers' lower facade, including the tridents, remained standing and were eventually dismantled and removed. Some of the tridents were among the artifacts placed in storage inside Hangar 17 at JFK Airport.

Greenwald said the tridents that stood after the attack are a "visual reference to the buildings that withheld and outlasted all the damage of that day."

In order to be carted off the WTC site, the beams had to be cut into 30-foot lengths to fit onto trucks. Once returned to the memorial, the pieces will be reassembled, said World Trade Center Memorial Foundation President Joseph Daniels.

Placed within the glass-walled museum pavilion, the tridents will rise up to 90 feet and will weigh about 90 tons each, Daniels said.
"These tridents in their raw form, without the aluminum cladding, are in many ways quite beautiful," Daniels said. "We expect them to be here as a signpost for the next 100 years."

The tree-lined plaza and memorial are due to open around September 2009. The museum will open about a year later.

tom.topousis@nypost.com

http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/yamasaki/wtcbasedet.jpghttp://hereisnewyork.org//jpegs/photos/2918.jpg


http://www.nypost.com/seven/09042007/news/regionalnews/trident_true_symbol.htm

powerful symbol , hopefully they will make them gleam shinier than they were before that day

Any steel buildings can't withstand this kind oif attack(like WTC), but concrete buildings has a very high chance of withstanding 9/11 type attack. The reason WTC collapse is that its mainly made of steel and the huge fire has melt its supporting steel so it collapse.

The fire`s werent that hot...

You only saw black smoke generated from cool fires who do not have much oxygen...

Lack off oxygen means that the temperatures couldnt exceeded the 700 Degree centegrade limit...

Steel only melts at 1500 degrees centegrade...

Oh, iff you didnt noticed yet. The towers where built in mind off a plane crashing into the towers...

Because the towers would be so high and NY has many big airports, so the change off a plane hitting the WTC towers in dense fog was big...

reading through these posts, it's like Bigfoot was everyone's english teacher.
people get the idea of ssc being, as someone previously quoted, 'dumber than a bag of bricks', b/c people don't read what they write before they post. let's clean it up a little....

is everyune kool withe that?

i'm no shakespeare or anything, but some of these comments make you really scratch your head.

The fire`s werent that hot...

You only saw black smoke generated from cool fires who do not have much oxygen...

Lack off oxygen means that the temperatures couldnt exceeded the 700 Degree centegrade limit...

Steel only melts at 1500 degrees centegrade...

Oh, iff you didnt noticed yet. The towers where built in mind off a plane crashing into the towers...

Because the towers would be so high and NY has many big airports, so the change off a plane hitting the WTC towers in dense fog was big...The fire is still one of the main reasons WTC fell.

reading through these posts, it's like Bigfoot was everyone's english teacher.
people get the idea of ssc being, as someone previously quoted, 'dumber than a bag of bricks', b/c people don't read what they write before they post. let's clean it up a little....

is everyune kool withe that?

i'm no shakespeare or anything, but some of these comments make you really scratch your head.

Agreed.

I lost several IQ points reading the last page of this thread. Will you guys politely return them if you find them?

well theres a good chance that the Freedom Tower will be attacked sooner or later because terrorists know what the building means to us and that its being built at the World Trade Center where the orginial towers once stood, so i think it will always be a target and there might even be an attempt to destroy it, but who knows anythings possible

The fire`s werent that hot...

You only saw black smoke generated from cool fires who do not have much oxygen...

Lack off oxygen means that the temperatures couldnt exceeded the 700 Degree centegrade limit...

Steel only melts at 1500 degrees centegrade...

Oh, iff you didnt noticed yet. The towers where built in mind off a plane crashing into the towers...

Because the towers would be so high and NY has many big airports, so the change off a plane hitting the WTC towers in dense fog was big...

You're right about the smoke and the melting point of steel. But you probably didn't knew that unprotected steel loses 50% of its strength at 400C. From 235 N/mm2 to 115 N/mm2 for normal European structural steel. This way it became unable to support the weight of the concrete floor and the office furniture.
The steel of the WTC was covered with fireresistent materials to withstand these kind of fires, however due to bad maintenance the protection was dameged. This way the fire could heat up the frames which supported the floor.
Further was the tower designed to withstand crashes from the biggest planes by the time the tower was designed.

damn, its doomsday scenario tuesday, I forgot

so do you guys think if the Freedom Tower was hit by an airplane the same size or larger than the ones that hit the Twin Towers, and was flying at the same speed, it would collapse the building?. because it seems like the Freedom Tower isnt going to be any stronger than the Twin Towers

Can this building withstand a 9/11 type terrorist attack?
I read somewhere that the FT is going to be the strongest tower in the world.. i dont remember.

There is no such thing as a skyscraper being 100% safe from all disaters both natural and man-made.

i didnt say 100%

if the Airbus A380 was to hit the Freedom Tower at 500 mph it would be devastating, the wingspan on that thing is almost 300ft, which is wider than the Freedom Tower, so if it was to hit at a low point on the building it would probobly collapse it

Isn't the first two hundred feet of the Freedom Tower going to be reinforced concrete? That sounds like it would anchor the rest of the structure pretty well, and I'm almost certain that they'd put extra fireproofing and supports to defend the tower against an attack, after all, it is an icon.

if the Airbus A380 was to hit the Freedom Tower at 500 mph it would be devastating, the wingspan on that thing is almost 300ft, which is wider than the Freedom Tower, so if it was to hit at a low point on the building it would probobly collapse it

Stupidest thing I've heard. The Freedom Tower was designed to withstand impacts from double-decker jets, not like a terrorist would ever get into a cockpit again w/o getting shocked to death.

thats not stupid, just because they say it will keep it from collapsing from an airplane doesnt mean it will you idiot, because they dont know for sure, well just have to wait and see when its attacked, so shut up ebola you dont know anything

thats not stupid, just because they say it will keep it from collapsing from an airplane doesnt mean it will you idiot, because they dont know for sure, well just have to wait and see when its attacked, so shut up ebola you dont know anything


I take my last statment back. This is the stupidest thing I've heard.

Why are we all talking about such a morbid subject? We should be looking forward to this great tower rising, not how it could possibly fall victim to a terrorist attack!
All the plans are in place, it's certainly much more prepared for an attack than the last WTC.

Come on folks, look to the future with optimism :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture201.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture199.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/Picture200.jpg

please keep your rude comments to yourself, thank you

please keep your rude comments to yourself, thank you

So wait your implying we s hould wait till the next attack to see if this building will survive a plane flying into it? Where do you people get these ideas. Reread what you said and rephrase that in a more sensitive way.

Carlos: When is the next time you are visiting the site. :)

thats not stupid, just because they say it will keep it from collapsing from an airplane doesnt mean it will you idiot, because they dont know for sure, well just have to wait and see when its attacked, so shut up ebola you dont know anything

Seriously? When it gets attacked? Did you just say that?

The ESB suffered a 9/11 style collision. Admittedly, the airplane wasn't going as fast, or as big. Also the ESB was way overbuilt. The unique construction of the WTCs made them vulnerable to an airplane attack. The Sears Tower would have probably survived.
The airplane that hit the ESB in was a WWII bomber (a B-25?), which is a fairly small, lightweight and slow-flying aircraft, especially when compared with today's commercials, similar in size to one of today's larger 'puddle-jumper' turboprops, and had a light fuel load - they were arriving in the NYC area and literally got lost in the fog on their way in to a local airfield.

The damage to the ESB was amazingly light that weekend and the building opened for business as usual the following Monday.

Isn't the ESB's structural steel encased in concrete (for fireproofing)?

Also, Tag is correct in that the steel in the WTC towers did not melt, but was severely softened by the heat of the resulting fuel and 'office stuff' fires. The fireproofing insulation was suspect, too, but most of it in the crash zones was blown off of the steel by the impacts. Without that insulation, which is usually good enough to allow plenty of time for firefighters to control normal 'office stuff' fires, the buildings didn't stand a chance. That they did stand for as long as they did, long enough to allow for most of their occupants below the impacts to escape, is a testament to their design engineers.

NOW - Back to the site redevelopment.

Mike

OK people. This is getting ridiculous and you are all getting off-topic. Good thing I am not an administrator cuz' I will totally close this one and make a clean one instead. I can't believe you are discussing another 9/11 event again. Buildings will collapse by any means and not only by airplanes. Even Rosie O'Donnell can do it just by opening her mouth. OK, that last sentence might be too harsh :sly:

Wow! I can't wait to see the structure upon it's completion.

Amazing building site, very brutal. The design of these buildings are great too. Sad about the way the wtc went down, but the new buildings will look way better :)

Ever heard of Loose Change? Did the terrorists do it? Anyway, the new structures are cool.

OK people. This is getting ridiculous and you are all getting off-topic. Good thing I am not an administrator cuz' I will totally close this one and make a clean one instead. I can't believe you are discussing another 9/11 event again. Buildings will collapse by any means and not only by airplanes. Even Rosie O'Donnell can do it just by opening her mouth. OK, that last sentence might be too harsh :sly:

I don't think it is getting off topic. The construction of this new tower has alot to do with the survivability of the old buildings. The Old Twin Towers getting hit by them planes should have never have happened. Awful thing but the engineers have learnt a great deal. If we can't make comments on the old towers we can't comment on the new construction of this tower. Construction comments comparing the two aren't off topic. Its totally on topic.

^
:toilet:


http://www.nypost.com/seven/09052007/news/regionalnews/ground_zero_to_60.htm


GROUND 'ZERO TO 60'
WTC TOWER WORK SURGES AHEAD AT LAST

By TOM TOPOUSIS

September 5, 2007 -- What a difference a year makes, even at Ground Zero.

Once dogged by bitter fights over how to rebuild the World Trade Center, construction there is finally booming, with more than 600 hardhats pouring concrete, blasting rock and raising steel in a bid to fully rebuild the site by 2012.

The Freedom Tower - the first skyscraper to rise at Ground Zero - has reached street level with the setting of jumbo steel beams that will form the below-grade base. Next year, the tower's frame will begin to rise above street level.

Alongside the Freedom Tower, hardhats have built 121 out of 150 concrete footings for the World Trade Center Memorial and Museum, with steel expected to be shipped in later this year to begin raising the memorial to street level.

The $2 billion transit hub designed by Santiago Calatrava is also under way.

Perhaps the least heralded project at the site is the massive, 80-foot-deep excavation of the eastern half of the trade center to create a watertight "bathtub" for three Church Street office towers.

Most of the work began after last year's agreement between Ground Zero developer Larry Silverstein and the Port Authority, which owns the site. The bistate agency is in charge of the bulk of the project, with Silverstein concentrating on three towers.

"We've restored a level of confidence to the rebuilding process and that's translated to the marketplace," said PA Chairman Anthony Coscia.

He said that the reconstruction project has helped fuel renewed interest in the downtown office market, where demand for space is booming.

"These buildings will be built and the site will be restored," Coscia told The Post during a recent interview.

Added together, $16 billion worth of construction will take place on the 16-acre site, making the World Trade Center the most expensive and most complicated construction project in a city brimming with tower cranes.

Because so many projects are being squeezed into the site, each one is linked to the other through shared subterranean structures - from piping to concourses to underground railroad and subway lines - further complicating the work.

"It's not an easy project to build," said Coscia, who likened the engineering effort to building a "subgrade Rubik's Cube."

Construction so far is mostly limited to the western half of the site, inside the 70-foot-deep bathtub that was built to contain the foundations of the Twin Towers. A second bathtub is being excavated on the eastern half of the site for Silverstein's towers 2, 3 and 4.

Silverstein, who last year completed World Trade Center 7 just across Vesey Street from the WTC's main campus, expects to begin construction of his three towers in 2008.

"You ain't seen nothing yet," Silverstein said.

His design team of 120 architects and engineers has been working at a studio on the 11th floor of 7 World Trade Center.

"We will hit the ground running when the sites are handed over to us in January," he said.

One setback for the reconstruction is the fiasco at the Deutsche Bank Building, which is being taken down by the Lower Manhattan Development Corp. a block south of the WTC. Two firefighters died battling a blaze inside the toxic tower last month.

The Port Authority, which will take over the Deutsche Bank site once the tower is removed, has an agreement to sell it to JPMorgan Chase as a fifth WTC tower beside a park and new home for St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09052007/photos/news012.jpg

tom.topousis@nypost.com

Carlos: When is the next time you are visiting the site. :)

I'm going to try and go this weekend again.....:)

http://i19.tinypic.com/6ferssn.jpg

I like this part:

"You ain't seen nothing yet," Silverstein said.

His design team of 120 architects and engineers has been working at a studio on the 11th floor of 7 World Trade Center.

"We will hit the ground running when the sites are handed over to us in January," he said.

Yeah, let's keep to the structural questions, please.

Save the paranoia for the evening news.

finally a group of highly visible ultra modern super structures for nyc!

I'm going to try and go this weekend again.....:)

http://i19.tinypic.com/6ferssn.jpg

beautiful image - great to see the Freedom Tower floorplates starting and heading upwards. Shame my visit in December is a year or two early really! That's a fantastic cluster of towers - biased as I am, the Foster and Roger's towers are stunners!

The Transit hub is a joke, it looks like a giant dead fish. In my opinion, they should replace it with a tower and have a hub below it.

beautiful image - great to see the Freedom Tower floorplates starting and heading upwards. Shame my visit in December is a year or two early really! That's a fantastic cluster of towers - biased as I am, the Foster and Roger's towers are stunners!

No Bias necessary -- Two and Three will definitely be the prettiest buildings there!!

As for the thing hoping to be built . . . don't you think it's funny that they're patting themselves on the back for getting this done . . . ELEVEN YEARS after the whole ordeal happened?!

I read somewhere that the FT is going to be the strongest tower in the world.. i dont remember.

This post tends imply that fact that it will be 100% safe.

Well, i dont know, that's what they said.....

I was really bored today in class, so I sketched these:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1962/image000xl7.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7313/image001ic8.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9682/image002wo2.jpg

:)

Haha, nice! You should see what I've drawn during my college writing course. I have over 100 sketches of towers I made and the WTC and downtown and midtown and everything in between.

how many years i have to wait to see this not so beautiful tower but great height rising up?

Do you really think it (or any other one) could? ^^



Yes. Some aspects of its design are still being kept secret. It's able to withstand impacts from double-decker jets, and it's not like that's an issue that needs to be adressed because it's likely that no one will hijack a jet again in America. Walls in the tower around important places are over a meter thick. This building will still be stanting 300 years from now.

Keep it coming. Some new pics of the site yet?

Huzzah, the new NYPost has reinvigorated my my enthusiasm for the WTC! Whoo. I really need to visit New York before 2012.

Can you picture this place in 2009?

There will be 4 supertalls, plus about 4 other skyscrapers, all rising right next to each other!

how many years i have to wait to see this not so beautiful tower but great height rising up?

0.0833 years with current speed. They're installing the rebar and the formwork for the walls of the core. With the current speed in building and installing formwork I expect concrete being poured before the end of this month. They're also preparing the ground for the floorslab of B4 outside the core. Inside the core B4 has already been poured :cheers:

http://i19.tinypic.com/6ferssn.jpg

^^ That really is a lovely render.

new renderings @ wtc.com.....
http://wtc.com/media/images/s/wtc-new-renderings

sweet thanks for that.

@Matt08642

the last pic reminds me of a joint :)

^^ wich is legal in here :lol:

Erm hmmmmmm yeah hmmmmm k back to topic:

Dear American SSC`ers. Wssup with the project??? Is it already rising or what??

^ No it's cancelled.

I can' t see it.

here Alex.... :banana: :banana: :banana:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/wtc1kjjk.jpg

in the second picture on the website, does it show the transit hub sticking way over the street?

WOW, what a beautiful view.. thanx for the pic :hug:

squint and you got your twins back!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/wtc1kjjk.jpg

Interesting. They included 10 Barclay Street in that render.

^^that's just a photograph

the latest pictures are just amazing.
a super modern -cluster- of supertalls in downtown NY. couldnt ask for more.

I hope I'm alive to see this Wonderful View!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/wtcnmn.jpg





http://www.wtc.com/uploads/images/712x534/24_04_OverallWTCRenderings.jpg

for you desktop lovers!!! :banana:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85146615/original.jpg

Lol, the Freedom Tower rererererererereredesign:

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/1208/ftrelatedimages01sx3.jpg

^^ WOW It looks a bit better! :)

WOW! Very nice! I like it a bit more now

for you desktop lovers!!! :banana:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85146615/original.jpg

Now that's the perspective I wanted to see.

[QUOTE=Carlos123;15223928]squint and you got your twins back!!!

hey you do! you can also look at some random building to the left and notice it out of the corner of your eye. Awesome render btw

[QUOTE=Carlos123;15223928]squint and you got your twins back!!!

hey you do! you can also look at some random building to the left and notice it out of the corner of your eye. Awesome render btw

i dont get it :(

why dont they build two of these freedom towers and give New York Back its twin tower skyline?

like change one of the other WTC building to make them look like the freedom tower

I like that pic. Its a new angle and each building design looks beautiful from there...

Wow it looks so real.

Fantastic my favorite buildings right now. The only problem IMO is the spire looks to big for the freedom tower in this render maybe the building itself should be taller with a smaller spire but its still great:)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/wtc1kjjk.jpg

Actually I think it's a pity that the Freedom Tower looks so "static" compared to the others. I mean, seeing how different the final design is from the first ones by Libeskind, although I never really liked these, I still think the final design is not bad, but personally I don't like the top. Instead of a spire they should have sought a more elegant solution.
Anyway the new renders look really great.

for you desktop lovers!!! :banana:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85146615/original.jpg

WOW, my destkop loves it!!

I see everybody has seen the animation on the site, so it's new! Great video and great song, realy NYC feeling!

i looked for an animation but couldn't find anything... i dont know where to look either lol

whats the link.?

i think this whole complex looks so great. i like the brand new redesign of the freedom tower, i like the way the transmission equipment has been arranged around the top.

.
one of many reasons people follow these forums are the pictures.

I agree with you ..that's why I always post my fotos in all their glory with no annoying links to click here and there,.....:lol:



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85146615/original.jpg

brings so much diversity to the skyline

I love the way 3WTC looks from that angle.

Is it U/C or what?

^^ WOW It looks a bit better! :)

I don't get what's different, is it the Crown and Spire?

Is it U/C or what?

Uh.. yeah. For a while now.

this building is very interesting and very modern and high i like it

Is it U/C or what?
The FT?? :lol:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85146615/original.jpg

That's a nice one! If they can just remove the ugly brown highrise in front of it then it will be way way better.

^
which one?? theres a few ugly brown buildings there...LOL

i think he means the long lines building... anyone got the link to the animation with the night show?

^
which one?? theres a few ugly brown buildings there...LOL

LOL! The one lone highrise at the right side in front of WTC 1. Also, there are too many water tanks in the foreground LOL!. I already counted 22 :lol:

lmao^ oh well, regardless... long lines can go too :)

^
the one between 7 WTC and American Express WFC ????

^
the one between 7 WTC and American Express WFC ????

Yes :yes:

Yes :yes:


THIS ONE?????

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/wtcoriginalcopymm.jpg


man that is one big beautiful ART DECO masterpiece!!!!! HELL NO :bash:

Beautiful Art Deco Masterpiece?:ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
Just look at how it destroyed the glass-facade WTC Skylines. Maybe, removing is not a good option. An exterior renovation might be better and change the color to something light like gray or blue.

^^ Exactly, what the hell's wrong with that building? - Nothing, that's what.

It's the nuclear reactor that wants to be a prison to the left that deserves annihilation. :)

Beautiful Art Deco Masterpiece?:ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
Just look at how it destroyed the glass-facade WTC Skylines. Maybe, removing is not a good option. An exterior renovation might be better and change the color to something light like gray or blue.

serioulsy that is a verified NYC landmark built in 1932!!! it is the Long Distance Building of the American Telephone and Telegraph company (AT&T)

Eidlitz, Mckenzie, Voorhees & Gmelin architects...created this massive brick Art Deco skyscraper...it has a blend of red, orange, gray, brown, and drack brown bricks...why would you want to cover this? and the lobby is simply marvulous!!! :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/wtcoriginalcopymm.jpg

Beautiful Art Deco Masterpiece?:ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
Just look at how it destroyed the glass-facade WTC Skylines. Maybe, removing is not a good option. An exterior renovation might be better and change the color to something light like gray or blue.
^^ :ohno: ^^ :weird: ^^ :down: ^^

I think the skyline in downtown is going to look so good. :cheers: Oh and no older brown building is going to change, please. :|

thanks God it will never be tear down...

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/SOH/Pict0159.jpg

What is this animation everyone is talking about?

^

this one...http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/wtcnmn.jpg

http://www.wtc.com/media/







:)

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3738/wtcoriginalcopymmdt0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

i think that this one really nedds to be torn down .. ugly and windowless :puke:

Just a quick question as im not very clever but would WTC2 be about the same height as The Freedom tower if it didnt have a spire? I know the renders might not be accurate and they are far apart.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6954/originallolrq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Tower 2 will probably be 408m....so only 8m less than FTs roof

^No, it's the same height as the Twin Towers, give or take 15 feet. It's over 411m for sure.

Just a quick question as im not very clever but would WTC2 be about the same height as The Freedom tower if it didnt have a spire? I know the renders might not be accurate and they are far apart.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6954/originallolrq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


WTC 1 and WTC 2 are intended to mirror the heights of the original buildings. So they are of similar roof heights except one is slightly taller than the other.

is wtc2 the same height as the originals?

^^

I thought the old where about 520m and the new are about 540m!

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3738/wtcoriginalcopymmdt0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

i think that this one really nedds to be torn down .. ugly and windowless :puke:

That thing's built to widthstand nuclear bombs, tearing it down would be tricky :D

I cant wait for this to be built, ive never stood next to a 1,776 ft skyscraper before :)

first post? :) great thread to begin!!! NYC2012

http://www.wtcrising.com/images/FE/chain217siteType8/site187/client/photoGallery/198/Freedom%20Tower%20(credit%20SOM)%20(Large)_big.jpg

Anyone know what's up with the little cut-ins at the base of WTC One? Are they structural features or what?

first post? :) great thread to begin!!! NYC2012

http://www.wtcrising.com/images/FE/chain217siteType8/site187/client/photoGallery/198/Freedom%20Tower%20(credit%20SOM)%20(Large)_big.jpg

thats nice....a super tall skyscraper next to a memorial that has nature(trees) makes it really beautiful.

thx carlos, ya this is going to look really nice when its finished, especially with the memorial

is wtc2 the same height as the originals?
yeap.. WTC will be 411 m and Freedom Tower will be 417 m

well i never got a chance to see the Twin Towers, but i am definately going to see the Freedom Tower, the other WTC buildings and the memorial for sure

mmmmmmmmmmmmm what ever happend to Daniel Libeskind???

man they sure threw out his ass out!! all but forgpotten....life's a bitch!! :nuts:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/21_01_WTCDesignTeam.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85146613/original.jpg

Has someone modified that photo? The man on the 2nd left has very long ears and a very long nose?!

It seems to me that the flatbeds on the webcam image have crane peices. If so I wonder where the crane will be located at.

:lol:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/largecopy.jpg

Has someone modified that photo? The man on the 2nd left has very long ears and a very long nose?!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Has someone modified that photo? The man on the 2nd left has very long ears and a very long nose?!

hehe that's great :lol:

:lol:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/largecopy.jpg

Maki looks like he's sporting wood.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/07/nyregion/07tower.html
Developers Unveil Plans for Trade Center Site

By DAVID W. DUNLAP
Published: September 7, 2007

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/09/07/nyregion/07tower-600.jpg
James Estrin/The New York Times

The State Assembly speaker, Sheldon Silver, pointing, and the developer Larry A. Silverstein studying a model on Thursday as new details emerged about what visitors can expect to see in five years at the site of the World Trade Center Memorial.

From deeply somber to brightly kinetic, a picture emerged today for the first time of what pedestrians can expect to see five years from now along the Greenwich Street side of the World Trade Center memorial.

Rather than emphasizing the distant bird’s-eye perspectives typical of most ground zero design unveilings, the developers and architects who are working on the redevelopment project stayed pretty much at street level, showing many of the details that will make or break the pedestrian experience.

They showed two of the distinctive steel tridents that once supported the facade of 1 World Trade Center, up to 90 feet tall, housed behind glass in the entrance pavilion to the memorial museum. They showed a 90-by-35-foot “media wall” of light-emitting diodes, with transparent elevators to the side, overlooking the channel between the two voids that compose the most recognizable element of the memorial. They showed stores that would face the memorial across Greenwich Street. They also showed a wall of polished black granite that would reflect the memorial plaza.

Greenwich Street will offer a critical transition between the sanctity of the memorial plaza itself, on the west side of the street, and the unabashedly commercial quarter on the east side.

Therefore, the three enormous office buildings being developed at the trade center site by Silverstein Properties — Tower 2 at 200 Greenwich Street, Tower 3 at 175 Greenwich Street and Tower 4 at 150 Greenwich Street — will have a great effect on the memorial.

New design details for all three buildings and also for the memorial museum pavilion on Greenwich Street were described today in a news conference at 7 World Trade Center.

Joseph Daniels, the president of the National September 11 Memorial and Museum (as the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation is now known) said that two raw steel tridents from the north face of the north tower would be brought back to the trade center site. They are now in Hangar 17 at Kennedy International Airport, where the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey has been storing large-scale 9/11 artifacts.

:lol:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2007/largecopy.jpg

:lol:

That thing's built to widthstand nuclear bombs, tearing it down would be tricky :D

That's the AT&T longlines building. It's actually sort of interesting close-up. I don't really mind it. Technically, it was designed to withstand nuclear fall-out, not blast. You'd need a very deep bunker to withstand such a blast.

It seems to me that the flatbeds on the webcam image have crane peices. If so I wonder where the crane will be located at.

is it the crane that was at wtc2?

jeez just start building these already :cry: i can't wait anymore

i think its kind of unusual though that the empire state building was completed in 15 months, and construction on the freedom tower has began at the end of april 2006 and it hasnt even reached ground level, but atleast it is being built

Aside from Dubai, where the hell else do you have 4 supertalls (and lots of other tall towers) all right next to each other?

nowhere :)

Chicago ^^

i think its kind of unusual though that the empire state building was completed in 15 months, and construction on the freedom tower has began at the end of april 2006 and it hasnt even reached ground level, but atleast it is being built

UNUSUAL?? please......c'mon man..these are two very DIFFERENT situations!!!!!!!!!!!!! the ESB was not built on top of a crime scene!!!!! had multitude of POLITICAL DELAYS, public involment...etc................of course the WTC re-birth will soar fast ...this is not a one block construction site BUT 16 acres my friend!!

Chicago ^^

oh... and where in chicago will you find these 'supertalls' within a city block of eachother??

oh... and where in chicago will you find these 'supertalls' within a city block of eachother??
umm nevermind:lol:

umm nevermind:lol:

:nocrook:

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/3052/tower4architect02ca4.jpg

what a change from Forgotten Libeskind.....

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb276/scumonkey/hudson_river.jpghttp://img469.imageshack.us/img469/3052/tower4architect02ca4.jpg

im so glad that they didnt decide to go with the 2004 freedom tower design, that thing was ugly and it didnt even have alot of floors, also the buildings that were designed around that freedom tower were boring and plain, i mean what were they thinking, why in the world would they have designed a building that would be a part of the World Trade Center if it doesnt even come close to being as good as the original Twin Towers

definitevely this is the best design.

ya i think they did a good job with the designs of these WTC buildings

is wtc2 the same height as the originals?

yeap.. WTC will be 411 m and Freedom Tower will be 417 m


The previous 2WTC was 415,1 meters (1.362 feet) high. ;)

what a change from Forgotten Libeskind.....

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb276/scumonkey/hudson_river.jpghttp://img469.imageshack.us/img469/3052/tower4architect02ca4.jpg

old freedom towers:
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6615/13ek.jpg

Thanks God we getting this instead!!!

http://www.wtcrising.com/images/FE/chain217siteType8/site187/client/photoGallery/198/Freedom%20Tower%20(credit%20SOM)%20(Large)_big.jpg

yup

ya i mean, the old design looks very weak, and i dont understand why the top part of it would be hollow, thats a waste of space, but ya this new design is excellent

MMMMM new tower will be Godzilla proof!!

yes yes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/babosadas/tower4architect02ca4copy.jpg

hahaha

hey carlos, what kind of program do you use to do that with the godzilla and freedom tower?, jw

Freedom Tower Photoshop!

I was born and raised in Chicago and currently live there. I just visited New York for the first time 3 weeks ago and absolutly loved it. Everyone says Chicago is way better in architecture, however, i truly believe NYC doesnt get enough credit. They have so many beautiful buildings. Especially in the financial district. Old and new. So even though i grew up hating NY i freakin love it now.

The final freedom tower design is so much better, I never go my head around Libeskinds design. Only wish it was a bit taller since WTC 2 looks so close to it terms of height now, (discounting the spire.)

I was born and raised in Chicago and currently live there. I just visited New York for the first time 3 weeks ago and absolutly loved it. Everyone says Chicago is way better in architecture, however, i truly believe NYC doesnt get enough credit. They have so many beautiful buildings. Especially in the financial district. Old and new. So even though i grew up hating NY i freakin love it now.

grew up hating NYC??? damn....:ohno: greatest city in the world!!!!

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/wtc/115.jpghttp://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/62633914/large.jpg

^^ that's just how it is between people from top tier cities. i grew up thinking chicago was just 2nd to nyc (cough, it is) with some ugly supertalls. esb > jhc & wtc > sears always came to mind, going all the way back to elementary school. i was probably the only one who took notice at that age, lol. - at this point, i couldn't care less. nyc and chitown both have some serious projects on the board and anything that can step the united states up as a whole is great (fucking dubai/hong kong).

new version of Spire

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze26pnp/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/spirenew.jpg

i really like that crown.

the earthcam seems to be offline again :(
I hope it will be back in some days, anyone some information about it?

what a change from Forgotten Libeskind.....

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb276/scumonkey/hudson_river.jpg

Actually....This is the last Libesking design for the Freedom Tower. It's so much better.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4226/copiadeuntitledcg7.jpg

i don't like this design

yea. i dont like this design too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/babosadas/117.jpg

^^^

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/babosadas/117.jpg

^^

oopps double post. sorry. :D

lol that old design is a joke

:lol: