otherwise known as self-adhering SBS modified bitumen integrally laminated to a cross-laminated polyethylene film.
.

haha, say that three times fast!... WHAT?!?!? I translated that into "plastic with glue"

I have seen a black one too, same idea?

I'm glad they are facing it with brick and not that stucco crap that needs to be replaced within 5 years that most everyone else seems to be using.

Ditto! I also glad that we have some new towers that will covered with glass panels instead stucco.

Getting a pay day loan? I couldn't resist.

No, they work for us, not you guys!

Probably having a pee at the clinic.

I'm glad they are facing it with brick and not that stucco crap that needs to be replaced within 5 years that most everyone else seems to be using.

I'm tired of that crappy stucco that falls apart after 5 to 10 years. Brick is beautiful.

Getting a pay day loan? I couldn't resist.

Hey rent/mortgage is due on the first. He is being a responsible person, with 700% interest loan to pay back in two weeks. :ohno::puke:

his may be old news but I just read on the Seattle Condo Blog that Seattle Civic Square will be 34 stories. I believe that is new since the talk of raising heights for that area.

http://seattlecondosandlofts.com/2007/11/seattle-civic-square-downtown

The DJC describes the old concept as 32 stories, which might mean 31 without 13. That would account for the office levels and residential levels and the square footage and footprint they discussed, but with low floor-to-floor heights.

They haven't announced anything about the new concept. I seriously doubt that blog any clue.

Ben of http://seattlecondosandlofts.com/ was interviewed by King5 today about the condo market, particularly the state of conversions reverting back to apartments and the overall health of the market.

From his blog:


It was my first camera interview, it went swiftly and my nervousness showed. Overall, the market has softened, coming down from a sellers market and heading towards, but not yet in, a full buyers market. Business has been picking up and we’re seeing more buyers entering the marketplace as a result of current news reports, which may actually help to maintain Seattle’s condo market at normal conditions.

One note regarding the decision by developers to revert to apartments. It’s a good thing for the condo market as it’ll help to restrict inventory levels from getting out of hand and maintain value. Though, there’s probably still too many $1 million plus units on the horizon for the market to fully absorb. Rumors have been swirling around that other condo projects may ultimately end up as apartments. The self-regulation we’re seeing from developers will keep the Seattle condo market from imploding.

It’ll be on tonight’s 5 pm broadcast on King5 between 5:15 and 5:30, so they tell me.

his may be old news but I just read on the Seattle Condo Blog that Seattle Civic Square will be 34 stories. I believe that is new since the talk of raising heights for that area.

The DJC describes the old concept as 32 stories, which might mean 31 without 13. That would account for the office levels and residential levels and the square footage and footprint they discussed, but with low floor-to-floor heights.

They haven't announced anything about the new concept. I seriously doubt that blog any clue.

FYI - The 34-story figure came from the DPD Land Use site which was provided prior to the recent discussion on new height limits. The other info in the post came from Triad & Arup's websites and a Sustainable Industries article dated 11/2/07.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7140/450cosmopolitan02853sitzi5.jpg

By AUBREY COHEN
P-I REPORTER

Benjamin Shanfelder signed up to buy a condominium on the west side of downtown Seattle's Cosmopolitan building in 2005 because it was one of the first new downtown high-rises and was convenient to amenities like the downtown bus tunnel and South Lake Union streetcar.

But before choosing a condo on the west side of Cosmopolitan's 21st floor, he looked into plans for the adjacent lot and found the city had approved a 13-story office building there.

"I bought with that assumption," he said last week.

Shanfelder knew other nearby projects would block some of his view. But it was a nasty surprise when developers of the neighboring building, which would be 18 feet away, revised their planned height to 34 stories -- one story higher than Cosmopolitan.

"I would lose most of my remaining view and pretty much all of my sunlight and privacy," he said.

Actually, he won't: He sold his condo last month and moved to Queen Anne.

This tale of two towers raises questions about the city's rules for tower spacing, the process for notifying neighbors and reviewing potential effects, and the obligations of a developer to tell buyers about plans for adjacent projects.

Developer Schnitzer West applied to build the 34-story tower in April 2006, just after the city raised downtown height limits. On Schnitzer's site, limits went from 300 feet for a commercial building and 360 feet for a residential building to 500 feet for either.

Adjacent property owners, including Cosmopolitan developer Continental Properties, were notified of the new application, as per city requirements. But those who had signed agreements to buy in Cosmopolitan were not.

Clifford Tatum, chairman of the Cosmopolitan Community Committee, found out about the new proposal in the summer of 2006 by checking the city's Web site while in Europe.

He tried to get word out to other buyers, but city officials said they didn't have and could not get contact information for people who had purchase agreements in Cosmopolitan, but did not yet own there. Continental Properties cited a policy not to disclose buyers' names.

"We have been prevented, through lack of information and invitation, from having our voices heard in the design process," Tatum wrote in a letter to Mayor Greg Nickels in December.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1848/buildingheights1202hu2.gif

Michael Harris, who bought a condo on the west side of the 17th floor of Cosmopolitan, found out about six months ago, thanks to Tatum and a search of condo blogs.

"I could almost touch the building," said Harris, who was so upset about the Cosmopolitan situation that he rented out his condo there and bought a new one for himself in Capitol Hill.

Backing out of the contract at that point would have meant surrendering 5 percent of the purchase price buyers had to put down as part of their Cosmopolitan contracts, Tatum said. He said the contract absolved the developer from any legal responsibility for telling buyers about the taller tower.

Cheryl Engstrom, who handles public relations for Continental Properties, said the developer saw it as an issue between buyers and the city, and did not want to comment.

"(Continental) didn't feel they had anything to add to the story," she said.

It's really up to buyers to look into what's proposed, what could be built under current zoning and what rule changes might be in the works, said Melody McCutcheon, a Seattle lawyer and chairwoman of the Seattle Chamber of Commerce's Land Use and Development Committee.

"In an urban setting, no views are guaranteed, so if a real estate agent says, 'You'll have this view forever,' be skeptical," she said. "You have to do an investigation of that."

McCutcheon does such due diligence for clients considering downtown condo purchases, but added that what's allowed could change in unexpected ways.

"You can't ever say to somebody, 'Never in the next hundred years will the city raise the height limits,' " she said.

Of course, the increased odds of living above other buildings are one reason condos on upper floors cost more than those below. The assessor's value of a 738-square-foot Cosmopolitan condo, for instance, rises from $300,000 on the 10th floor to $400,000 on the 24th to $450,000 on the 31st.

In raising downtown height limits in 2006, the City Council required 60, 80 or even 200 feet of separation between towers in many areas. The original proposal would have set a separation requirement of 80 feet throughout downtown, but the council removed that requirement in the densest commercial zones.

Developers strongly opposed tower spacing and the final rules were a compromise, said City Councilman Peter Steinbrueck, chairman of the council's Urban Development and Planning Committee. He called the Cosmopolitan situation "shocking."

"That just seems unreasonable to me and highly inconsistent with our plan," Steinbrueck said. "That's precisely the kind of problem we were trying to avoid."

He also put some blame on developers, saying, "You would hope that the neighboring developers would respect each other better and not just do everything in a way that's self-serving."

Even if the buyers were notified, they would not have had much recourse, said Alan Justad, Seattle Planning and Development spokesman. The notice would have given them time to comment on the city's environmental review, but that review cannot consider a private building's views, privacy and light.

But McCutcheon said light and shadow impacts on private property could be considered by the Design Review Board.

Planning and Development Director Diane Sugimura said in a February response to Tatum's letter that the final plan for the Schnitzer building approved by the design board included elements that would limit impacts on neighboring sites.

The developer voluntarily changed its design to "minimize the interaction between the two buildings and preserve privacy for both," said Michael Graubard, spokesman for the Schnitzer project.

These include using "reeded" glass, which makes windows less transparent; reducing occupied office spaces across from condos; and setting back corners of the building to allow more light to reach the condo tower, Graubard said, adding that Schnitzer officials recently met with Cosmopolitan owners to discuss the project.

Tatum said the city should require notification of those with contracts to buy condos near a building proposal, consider impacts on private property and have a tower-spacing requirement in even the densest zones.

It is possible to buy "air rights" from neighbors to prevent potential view blockage. The developers of the downtown Four Seasons Hotel and Private Residences, and the Harbor Steps building, for instance, jointly bought the rights above the Lusty Lady, on First Avenue, in 2005.

There are several other proposed towers that would be quite close to each other, including two 500-foot towers proposed on 5th Avenue, just behind the 31-story ESCALA building now under construction, a 39-story residential tower just south of the Cristala building, at Second Avenue and Lenora Street, and the 5th & Madison condo tower going up just beside the old Bank of California Building.

Even in areas with separation requirements, the rules do not apply to towers on different blocks, such as buildings across the street from each other. A city map of towers already planned or under construction shows that several could cause such conflicts, and that doesn't account for potential development on other sites.

The issue has caused a fuss at the Cosmopolitan because the building is particularly close to the Schnitzer tower and because it is the first high-profile conflict over tall towers in downtown Seattle.

"I haven't heard of us getting these complaints in recent times," Justad said. "This is our first time that we've started to develop a large number of residential high-rises, so this is new territory."

But there will be more, McCutcheon said. "It is an emerging issue that people will have to give more thought to."


CLOSE QUARTERS
1918 EIGHTH

(under construction)

THE COSMOPOLITAN

THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THEM:

18 feet

or less than the length

of a 2008 Chevrolet Suburban

18 feet, 6 inches

CONDO DUE DILIGENCE
Interested in buying a condo? Want to know what might block your view, choke off your light or take away your privacy? Here are some suggestions.


Ask the developers what they know about nearby proposals and what zoning would allow, and whether they have bought air rights for surrounding lots to protect views and privacy.

Look up the zoning of surrounding sites and understand what that zoning allows.

Check surrounding addresses for project applications already filed, sign up for the notification lists for those projects so you get notice of any changes and check back regularly to look for new applications on other sites.

Ask city planners about possible upcoming changes to what zoning would allow nearby.

Comment in writing and at design-review hearings about proposed projects.

Hire a land-use lawyer to do all this for you.
Find information for Seattle by going to seattle.gov/dpd and clicking on "Research" for zoning maps, and "Notices" and "Permits" for information on proposals, or go to the Seattle Department of Planning and Development Public Resource Center, on the 20th floor of the Seattle Municipal Tower, 700 Fifth Ave. The center is open from 7:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and from 10:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. Tuesday and Thursday, and can be reached at 206-684-8467.

And remember, it may not be possible to promise nobody ever will be able to build in front of your condo.


P-I reporter Aubrey Cohen can be reached at 206-448-8362 or aubreycohen@seattlepi.com.

Was readin this @ work last night (I work the night shift, we get the paper @ 2am). I do think it sux for the ppl whose view is gonna be blocked, but @ the same time, u really should do your research if mega views are important to u. Personally, living in a highrise w/ all the non-view amenities that come with that would outweigh the negatives of having your naybs 18ft away...besides, most houses in Seattle are hella closer than 18ft.

i wonder if anyone actually asked the developer if they could opt out of their contract and get the 5% back, i doubt it

I'm guessing it's the balconies that are 18' away. The camera was probably more like 23'.

"most houses in Seattle are hella closer than 18ft."

but the homes in Seattle are not 30+ stories. If you are on the side getting blocked there will be almost no light in that canyon, I hope that they thrown in a sunlight lamp to ward of SAD for free...

I've said it before...but I'd be happy to live there. If I was still looking I'd think about it, because other people's opinions will probably cause prices to fall on those units.

I'm about 30' from the other half of the Ellington now. I keep my blinds shut mostly. I'd do the same if the other building didn't exist, purely to keep the sun out, though I'd open them more often.

Offices are better than another condo. The offices won't have windows and they'll be nice and quiet.

The article made it sound like the two buildings will be of similar height. Wrong.

Did anybody notice in the Seattle Times that Insignia Towers Condominium http://insignialiving.com/ states 'coming Spring 2008'. This is the twin tower project where Teatro ZinZanni was. I'm going to assume that the preview center will be coming in the spring of 2008. Is it normal to advertise the preview center in this manner? If I weren't the type of person who followed the developments, I would have thought that I'd be able to move in in 2008.

Okay, I got that off my chest, I feel better now.

Yes it's normal, and I agree it's confusing!

^^ Great updates, thanks for updating everything. :)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2004059878_uhotel08.html

Saturday, December 8, 2007 - Page updated at 12:00 AM
Developer files permit for hotel in U District
By Eric Pryne

Seattle Times business reporter

A Bellevue hotel developer has filed permit applications with the city of Seattle for an eight-story, 215-room hotel on Northeast 45th Street in the University District.

Architect Jeff Degen, listed as the contact on the permit application, said the hotel would be a Residence Inn, a Marriott brand that caters to extended-stay guests. He declined further comment, saying the developer did not want additional information released.

But Degen's firm has posted computer-generated photo renderings of the proposed hotel on its Web site. It would be built at the northwest corner of 45th and 12th Avenue Northeast, one block west of the landmark art deco 1931 Hotel Deca — still better-known to many old-time Seattleites as the Meany Hotel.

A vacant market and parking lot now occupy the 0.57-acre property. The existing building would be demolished, according to the permit application.

Don Schulze, president of the University District Chamber of Commerce, said he has seen plans for the hotel. "It's upscale," he said. "It's real nice.

"We're very pleased the property is slated for development," Schulze said. "The whole area is coming up. People are feeling good about building in this neighborhood."

The project also would include 7,000 square feet of retail and underground parking for 198 vehicles, according to the application.

County records show the property was purchased for $4.26 million in August 2006 by a partnership of Pong's Corp. and National Investment Corp., which share a Bellevue address.

Art Pederson, the city planner assigned to the project, said the developer is Paul Pong, whose family has developed several hotels in the Seattle area, including the Courtyard Inn by Marriott in downtown Bellevue. Related corporations also own two hotels near Seattle Center, according to county property records.

Pederson said he hoped to present detailed plans for the University District hotel to the city's Northwest Design Review Board in late January.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/12/07/2004059792.gif

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.ddseattle.com/Progress_UDistrict.html

http://www.ddseattle.com/Web_Images/UDistrictResInn1.jpg

http://www.ddseattle.com/Web_Images/UDistrictResInn3.jpg

http://www.ddseattle.com/Web_Images/UDistrictResInn2.jpg

^^ Sweet, thats replacing the abandoned market, and starts to cut into that huge block of parking lots by the PNR.

beautiful! bring it on! that area has been empty for too many years.

I'm excited about this one. First, it fills in a little of that horrible U-District parking lot section. Second, 215 hotel rooms will add some life to that spot.

Funny, like any nerd would, I went to the architect's website while reading the PI, but I didn't see the other shots.

Love the rendering of new hotel! :)

I just registered for Insignia Living just to collect the information of this development to see if I want to purchase it or not... When I registered and looked at the list of studio to 3 bedrooms with den. Finally we have three bedrooms condos coming soon! I really like this development a lot. Looking forward to find out more information about this development.

Gah who uses those type of side-hanging hotel signs anymore? I have never taken into liking those designs...bleh

i love that kind of signage

5th and Columbia

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/586/5thandcolumbiagb2.jpg


I'm interested in this one but haven't heard anything about it on here. Is there a thread or any info on it? How tall is it? Is it likely to be built? If so, when?

Gah who uses those type of side-hanging hotel signs anymore? I have never taken into liking those designs...bleh

I think serves 45th well. 45th is a fast, narrow and sorta hectic road with a lot going on around it. I think it's a wise way to advertise to traffic, if the sign were just on the building facing away from the building I think a lot of people wouldn't notice it.

I also think it looks just fine.

Is anyone else getting tired of the blue, beige, gray colors that seem to dominate Seattle's new buildings? I love various colors. Obviously we all would like some more interesting architecture but I wish the colors and facades could be more interesting, much like 5th and Madison. I LOVE its tile siding!!!

I love that rendering!!! Great! I wish it was a tad taller to add more of a skyline to the U-district, but oh well. What is the current height limit over there? It would be nice to like 250' condo towers around the U or on the shore of the ship canal.

yeah, i think the height limits either need to be higher or at least higher in more sub-areas within in the u-district. housing prices are TERRIBLE in that area for college students. one of the most expensive college neighborhoods in the country. granted it is seattle, but i think if developers were able to make better use of space, we'd see those prices a bit more reasonable in the future, not to mention the possibility of a more dense and vibrant neighborhood.

yeah, i think the height limits either need to be higher or at least higher in more sub-areas within in the u-district. housing prices are TERRIBLE in that area for college students. one of the most expensive college neighborhoods in the country. granted it is seattle, but i think if developers were able to make better use of space, we'd see those prices a bit more reasonable in the future, not to mention the possibility of a more dense and vibrant neighborhood.

I like density as much as the next poster on this board, but I'd worry a little about raising height limits everywhere in the U-district with the intention of making housing more affordable for students -- cheap housing tends to be old housing, and the U-District has an awful lot of old subdivided houses that make for cheap(ish) rent. Raising height limits might eventually lower prices owing to increased unit supply, but it also runs some risk of raising prices owing to the increased quality of the average unit -- that is, it could get all those old rental houses redeveloped into something that adds a few units, but a *much* higher cost per square foot, bringing in a more varied demographic but decreasing affordability for students.

If cheaper housing for students is the main goal, I'd vote for making it easier to subdivide existing houses into rental units in areas that are an easy bus ride from the U (e.g. Wallingford, Ravenna, etc.) and improving bus service to those areas (Why isn't the right lane on 45th from I-5 to 15th bus-only at rush hour, for example? Why isn't 15th bus-only from 45th to Pacific? Etc.), spreading out the student population a little.

All that said, redeveloping U-district parking lots (for this hotel, proposed faculty housing, etc.) and space above retail (as in the surprisingly attractive Lothlorien apartments on the Ave) is definitely a good thing. There's an upcoming design review for apartments to replace Tubs, too.

I've seen a number of houses in the neighborhood renovated and undoubtedly jumped in rent. Our apartment building got renovated last year. New carpets and appliances and windows. And a 20% jump in rent. So I think that's going to happen no matter what, unless you regulated who was allowed to live in the neighborhood or set price ceilings.

And while its sending the price up, there's that whole community quality aspect of the new development. I mean yeah it was cheap but some of that stuff was really slummy. In reality just over the past year the neighborhood I live in west of campus near the freeway feels safer. When we moved in my roommates and I were saying how it's good we aren't girls because it would be scary at night. But its not nearly as bad these days. One house down the street used to have an open garage that a homeless man took over. It's now got a door and probably a car parked inside. There used to be homeless picking through the garbage at night too, we don't see them anymore.

I like density as much as the next poster on this board, but I'd worry a little about raising height limits everywhere in the U-district with the intention of making housing more affordable for students -- cheap housing tends to be old housing, and the U-District has an awful lot of old subdivided houses that make for cheap(ish) rent. Raising height limits might eventually lower prices owing to increased unit supply, but it also runs some risk of raising prices owing to the increased quality of the average unit -- that is, it could get all those old rental houses redeveloped into something that adds a few units, but a *much* higher cost per square foot, bringing in a more varied demographic but decreasing affordability for students.

If cheaper housing for students is the main goal, I'd vote for making it easier to subdivide existing houses into rental units in areas that are an easy bus ride from the U (e.g. Wallingford, Ravenna, etc.) and improving bus service to those areas (Why isn't the right lane on 45th from I-5 to 15th bus-only at rush hour, for example? Why isn't 15th bus-only from 45th to Pacific? Etc.), spreading out the student population a little.

All that said, redeveloping U-district parking lots (for this hotel, proposed faculty housing, etc.) and space above retail (as in the surprisingly attractive Lothlorien apartments on the Ave) is definitely a good thing. There's an upcoming design review for apartments to replace Tubs, too.

good points. light rail will help too when someone could feasibly live on beacon hill and get to uw in a reasonable amount of time reliably.

i'm so glad something is going in at tubs! i ride by there every morning and wish i owned it and could develop it. really a great location- 2 parks, 5 movie theaters, 2 grocery stores, uw is a 15 min walk away... if it were me i might try to salvage some of tub's hot tubs for a scaled down version of tubs in a ground floor retail outfit.

would not mind seeing those car dealerships relocate either.

i like the idea of a bus-only lane on 45th for certain parts of the day, but something tells me that road is hell no matter what. 44 is one of the most overcrowded, slow, stuck-in-traffic-the-whole-way busses in seattle. both the 16 and the 26 are great rides but get horribly caught up when they turn onto 45th for 4 blocks.

Is anyone else getting tired of the blue, beige, gray colors that seem to dominate Seattle's new buildings? I love various colors. Obviously we all would like some more interesting architecture but I wish the colors and facades could be more interesting, much like 5th and Madison. I LOVE its tile siding!!!

I agree with you on this one. I was excited for the new WAMU tower before it was built until I saw that it was going to be another blue/grey box. It disappears into the sky when its cloudy here. I love the vertical orange stripes on the Two Union tower. Helps it stand out against the cloudy backdrop.

I'm curious, what colors are you looking for?

I'm curious, what colors are you looking for?

I would like to see some more red, orange, yellow, brown and black in the mix. I don't mean a giant bright orange carrot sticking out of the ground but at least something a little out of the Seattle comfort zone of blueish-grey.

There's a red tower in Toronto that I like, there's that pink building in Portland as well as that colorful box building they have, there's the Bank of America Tower in Atlanta and, come to think of it, maybe even a white building like the Smith Tower or the U.S. Bank Tower in Los Angeles. I feel buildings like this will enhance our skyline and make it a little more interesting by breaking the color monotony.

I love Seattle's buildings, even the blue-gray ones. My favorite buildings are even this color, BofA in Charlotte, WaMu in Seattle, Key Tower in Cleveland, Empire State, Chrysler, etc, I'm just worried about Seattle's addiction to them.

I've always thought a wine red colored building would look cool.

I've always thought a wine red colored building would look cool.

:cheers: I'll drink to that :)

How about some bright white and glass finishes like Vancouver? I love those.

Just posted in the PI about apartment towers being built (had a cool rendering of the Olivian):

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/343013_highrise11.html

A wealth of condos sets stage for renters
Two high-rise apartment buildings under construction

By AUBREY COHEN
P-I REPORTER

Apartments have been the poor stepchild to condominium towers over the past few years in downtown Seattle. They're back in vogue now, but the national housing storm may dampen their return to prominence.

"Isn't it always this way?" Seattle's Dupre + Scott Apartment Advisors asked in a December report on the apartment market. "Apartment development picks up just as our economy slows down."
High-rise drawing
Zoom
The Olivian, under construction at 8th Avenue and Olive Way, will be a 27-story building with 224 luxury apartments. (Courtesy of The Hanover Company)

Los Angeles developer Urban Partners announced Monday that it had broken ground on Aspira, a 37-story apartment tower on a former church parking lot at the southwest corner of Stewart Street and Terry Avenue. The Hanover Co., of Houston, is already building the Olivian, a 27-story luxury apartment building at Eighth Avenue and Olive Way, and several other towers are in the works.

Aspira was originally slated for condos. Julie Benezet, managing director of the Urban Partners' Seattle office, attributed the change to a glut of announced condominium projects, skittishness among the investors who fund condo towers because of condo speculation in other parts of the country, an apartment supply that has shrunk because of a lack of new construction since the dot-com meltdown in 2001 and conversion of existing apartments to condos in recent years.

"There just didn't seem to be a product there for the person who did not want a condo, who wanted to be able to rent," she said.

Downtown lacks the kind of high-end apartments Hanover builds, said Eric Kenney, managing partner of the company's Western division. "There's nothing in our segment of the market."

Seattle actually had more than 5 percent fewer total apartments this fall than a year earlier, according to Dupre + Scott. Meanwhile, the vacancy rate plunged from more than 7 percent in 2002 to 2.8 percent this spring, before ticking up to 3 percent in the fall, and the average rent this fall was up 11 percent from a year ago.

Apartments remain somewhat of a bargain, Mike Scott, of Dupre + Scott, said in an Aspira news release. "Even though rents have increased significantly, there is still room for more increases because rents have not kept pace with consumer incomes."

Seattle's economy has continued to create jobs, drawing new residents to the area. That includes 55,000 jobs and net migration (the number of people moving in minus those leaving) of 48,000 people this year, according to Conway Pedersen Economics' Puget Sound Economic Forecaster.

"What drives our business is job growth and job growth over the last four years really has been exceptional in Seattle," Kenney said.

Benezet pointed to companies like Microsoft and, reportedly, Amazon planning to open downtown offices, adding that many of the new employees would want to rent.

"They're on the move, they're traveling a lot and they may or may not settle here permanently," she said.

Matthew Gardner, a Seattle land-use economist, said he's seen apartments as the best investment in Seattle real estate for more than a year. But he also cautioned that apartments might swing back into oversupply in the next few years, as more projects come on line and the economy softens.

Conway Pedersen Economics predicts growth will slow to 34,000 new jobs next year, 28,000 in 2009 and 26,000 in 2010. This would slow net migration to an average of 25,000 in each of the next three years.

Dupre + Scott predict purchases of apartment buildings for condo conversion "should come to an almost complete stop for at least a year," with apartment development in King, Pierce and Snohomish counties slowing from nearly 2,600 units in buildings with 20 or more units over this year to 2,100 apartments next year, before jumping to about 4,500 in each of the following two years.

The area's vacancy rate should rise from about 3.5 percent through 2008 to 4.5 percent in 2009 and just over 5 percent in 2010.

Rents should continue to climb 6 percent a year for the next three years -- a little more than the past three years, but less than the 9 percent jump over the past year, Dupre + Scott predicted.

High construction costs mean developers are gambling on rents continuing to rise, Gardner wrote in a recent commentary on the rental market. "This has been a common practice for many years and one that required more than a little optimism on the part of the developer."

WHAT'S GOING UP?

The Olivian, a 27-story luxury apartment building at Eighth Avenue and Olive Way.

Aspira, a 37-story apartment tower on a former church parking lot at the southwest corner of Stewart Street and Terry Avenue.

P-I reporter Aubrey Cohen can be reached at 206-448-8362 or aubreycohen@seattlepi.com.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20071210/450highrise11_Olivian.jpg

^I didn't know they had a forest around that block in downtown Seattle, at least Olivian residents wont have to worry about views being blocked, especially since Ava is apparently transparent as well. Cool feature Ava! And a thoughtful neighbor.

Seattle is just superb:banana::banana::banana:

Yeah that forest is great to block all the pollution from I-5 and light will flow right through AVA, Sweet! I really like Olivian.
http://aycu20.webshots.com/image/35459/2006100068683339736_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2006100068683339736)

I'm was looking forward to Aspira, then I noticed its just another grey tower. Hope I am wrong and its a beautiful glass facade.
http://aycu31.webshots.com/image/34870/2006103031682377654_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2006103031682377654)

Thank God! A place to hunt in the city. Hope the SLUT will eventually go there.

Actually my favorite swimming n fishing hole is in that forest. I use the timber for kindling.

Hunt? Presumably you mean hunt for the right bottle of chardonnay. We don't "hunt" other stuff around here. Even I, a meat eater and leather shoe wearer, don't think of hunting as something people do, except people who live elsewhere.

Auburn on the other hand...

I want to live in the transparent building (AVA) next to the Olivian. It would be a little like living in Wonder Woman's invisible airplane.

I can see the PI article now:

"Olivian Residents Up in Arms Over False Forestry/InvisiBuilding Promises"

Here's something to throw out there. Is there a chance of over-saturation of the commercial office real estate in the CBD?

Here's what's coming in 2008 and 2009, totaling over 2 million square feet. These new office buildings include West 8th (520,000 square feet), 2201 Westlake (302,000), 7th & Madison (204,000), 818 Stewart (230,000), 1918 8th Avenue (650,000) and 5th & Yesler (260,000).

I've heard rumor that some others are coming soon, but have not started: Coleman Center (173,000), 505 Madison (750,000) and 5th & Marion (700,000).

Does anyone know anything about the last two? I thought the 5th and Marion was scrapped. And what is 505 Madison. Anyone have renderings of these two?

To answer my own question first, I think if Amazon leaves all their office space in the CBD behind in 2010-11 to move to SLU, there may be a glut of office space.

^I didn't know they had a forest around that block in downtown Seattle, at least Olivian residents wont have to worry about views being blocked, especially since Ava is apparently transparent as well. Cool feature Ava! And a thoughtful neighbor.

LOL I swear marketing people would fleece their own grandma if they thought they could get away with it.

Here's something to throw out there. Is there a chance of over-saturation of the commercial office real estate in the CBD?

Here's what's coming in 2008 and 2009, totaling over 2 million square feet. These new office buildings include West 8th (520,000 square feet), 2201 Westlake (302,000), 7th & Madison (204,000), 818 Stewart (230,000), 1918 8th Avenue (650,000) and 5th & Yesler (260,000).

I've heard rumor that some others are coming soon, but have not started: Coleman Center (173,000), 505 Madison (750,000) and 5th & Marion (700,000).

Does anyone know anything about the last two? I thought the 5th and Marion was scrapped. And what is 505 Madison. Anyone have renderings of these two?

To answer my own question first, I think if Amazon leaves all their office space in the CBD behind in 2010-11 to move to SLU, there may be a glut of office space.

505 is 5th from Madison to Marion (not scrapped), 5th & Marion is the United Methodist site, and you can add the Civic Plaza project at the hole that used to be the Public Safety Building. The last one, btw, has a totally new and very interesting full-height rendering in today's DJC. (Which also had a new rendering of Terry & Stewart.)

These office towers have all talked about 2008 or 2009 starts. Numerous other smaller projects have also talked about starting in the same timeframe.

40-story towers with below-grade parking take at least a couple years to build. So a mid-2008 start, for example, would come on line in mid-2010 at the earliest. A lot of the other buildings planned would come on line after 2009.

Chances are not everything will get built. But it's a strong lease market.

Here's something to throw out there. Is there a chance of over-saturation of the commercial office real estate in the CBD?

Here's what's coming in 2008 and 2009, totaling over 2 million square feet. These new office buildings include West 8th (520,000 square feet), 2201 Westlake (302,000), 7th & Madison (204,000), 818 Stewart (230,000), 1918 8th Avenue (650,000) and 5th & Yesler (260,000).

I've heard rumor that some others are coming soon, but have not started: Coleman Center (173,000), 505 Madison (750,000) and 5th & Marion (700,000).

In addition to those, Martin Selig has three new buildings along Elliott. 333 Elliott (140,000) nearing completion, 635 Elliott (340,000) starting construction any day now, and 220 Elliott (75,000) under permit review. A fourth is planned at 3rd and battery (70,000).

Here is another article in the seattle times about the Civic Plaza with a poor image.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004066759_civicsquare12m.html

CityView Jim,

you seem to be echoing the statements made by Doug Howe in the DJC. I'd take it with a grain of salt, seeing as he's building one project now and is diposed to a tighter market with less competition in terms of new product in the future. Not exactly and unbiased source

CityView Jim,

you seem to be echoing the statements made by Doug Howe in the DJC. I'd take it with a grain of salt, seeing as he's building one project now and is diposed to a tighter market with less competition in terms of new product in the future. Not exactly and unbiased source
Yeah, I read his commentary. I'm just thinking there may be a bit much. But you never know what can happen in 4-5 years. Another article I read said that businesses really need to be able to forecast better as most office space demands may need to be built at this time. Vacancies are low especially if a company is seeking major space.

I can see the PI article now:

"Olivian Residents Up in Arms Over False Forestry/InvisiBuilding Promises"

OMG you know there is some ideot out there that is think just that:ohno::nuts:

The Seattle City Council cleared the way for Vulcan, Paul Allen's development firm, to build three 160-foot-high office buildings in South Lake Union for Amazon.com, which would bring 4,000 employees to the area...
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004068614_southlakeunion13m.html

Aww, Amazon really should have gone with a signature skyscraper!

^^Thats good news, and the article mentioned about the industrial lands deal. Good news about that as well.:applause:

The Seattle City Council cleared the way for Vulcan, Paul Allen's development firm, to build three 160-foot-high office buildings in South Lake Union for Amazon.com, which would bring 4,000 employees to the area...
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004068614_southlakeunion13m.html

Aww, Amazon really should have gone with a signature skyscraper!
Thanks for the update. Keep us posted with the Monday verdict?

Amanzon, like Microsoft, doesn't bathe in the spotlight. They want their workers to be happy in a little commune!

I read also that every one of the new Amazon buildings will have different architecture both outside and in,so each building will have it's own unique touch. They are also going for Google campus touch with large common areas to play games, ride your unicycle, eat, workout or whatever. It's hard to get that environment in a tall tower.

There is also the 40ish story tower just west of the Madison Renaissance on the east side of 5th in the 900 block.

^^ I wish they had kept that as a condo tower. I think 5th and Madison is a little loney down there by its self.

The southern part of the CBD is getting some other infusions of nighttime occupancy. The Arctic Building is being converted into a hotel. This week the Alaska Building got its building permit for conversion from empty offices into a Marriott plus a little housing on three new penthouse levels. We just got the building at Second & Yesler. It'll always be quiet at night compared to daytime, but the difference will be less and less stark.

^
Those will also be good for the (new) office market, because those two buildings used to contain offices. The tenants there have to go somewhere else.

Any updates on the Smith Tower being converted to condos? Is this still happening?

This is actually going to be a nice park. It's nice to see actual grass lawn laid out. Here's the latest article on the pedestrian bridge:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004074744_solakeunion15m.html

And here's the overall vision (it's a mini movie requiring a Flash Player) for the park which appears almost half finished:

http://www.discoverslu.com/Flash/slupark.html

And I'm pretty sure this park can remain Bum-free.

I'm excited about SLUP, or SLURP if you prefer. (You'll say "I'm getting the SLUT to SLURP...") It's a "regional" park so we should call it South Lake Union Regional Park.

I saw one nearly finished part recently and it looked fantastic. I especially love the bridge, because bridges over water are really cool for one, and it'll also allow you to walk through without going near the street...more of a park experience, and even a shortcut.

Will it be bum free? No, but it won't get many, and it certainly won't be seriously impacted. It's a big park. And it'll have a lot of users -- visitors to the Museum of History & Industry, the Wooden Boat Center, etc., plenty of users attracted to the lake, bike riders, and so on. If we can redo Mercer and Valley it'll gain even more.

It's not even so much whether there will be homeless in the park. They are in all of the city's downtown parks. At South Lake Union there was an ongoing issue of the homeless actually living in the park--some would set up camp and virtually spent the entire day in the park (this in the summer months). The question is really whether they will be allowed to set up their tents or put down their sleeping bags in the renovated park and spend the night--and a good portion of the day....I haven't seen where large numbers of "regular" folks/tourists send them scurrying (e.g. Steinbrueck Park). Those in charge will have to make the decision as to how much and which activities to "tolerate".

Seattle is just superb:banana::banana::banana:

Well thank you!! :pepper::pepper:

I'm interested in [the 5th and Columbia proposal] but haven't heard anything about it on here. Is there a thread or any info on it? How tall is it? Is it likely to be built? If so, when?

Anybody?:dunno:

The southern part of the CBD is getting some other infusions of nighttime occupancy. The Arctic Building is being converted into a hotel. This week the Alaska Building got its building permit for conversion from empty offices into a Marriott plus a little housing on three new penthouse levels.

This is very old news.....

In a paragraph supporting an argument, I'm allowed to bring in "old news". Maybe you should read the context of my post.

In any case, last week's building permit is actual news.

Anybody?:dunno:
Is the 5th Ave and Columbia project the proposed tower for the First United Methodist Church site, 811 5th Ave? If so, here's a design review report on the project: http://www.seattle.gov/dpd/AppDocs/GroupMeetings/DRReport3007582-&-2200399AgendaID942.pdf. The design review board is scheduled to offer recommendations on this project in January.

So the Crocodile Cafe closed. Oh well get ready for this: (my photo upload site is down, sorry..click the link)

http://seattlest.com/2007/12/17/you_just_knew_i.php

wow how long has that been in he works?

Has anyone noticed that they are painting the old downtown seattle sheration tower? It will look great!!

The whole remodelling and expansion is looking great. Nice how they opened up the corner and made the Pike side more interesting.

In a paragraph supporting an argument, I'm allowed to bring in "old news". Maybe you should read the context of my post.

In any case, last week's building permit is actual news.

LOL...I posted that just to get you fired up.....taste of your own medicine....knew it would get a reaction out of you....:bash:

Has anyone noticed that they are painting the old downtown seattle sheration tower? It will look great!!

They have been doing this for months now....they painted the east side first back in September....and yes, it looks great, muck like the awnings and glass canopies!

LOL...I posted that just to get you fired up.....taste of your own medicine....knew it would get a reaction out of you....:bash:

When I do that, someone is announcing something old. Generally in the papers or on SSP/SSC long ago.

Not unlike your Sheraton post today.

its official trader joes will be occupying the new insignia towers at 6th and bell .

Do we have a groundbreaking date yet?

Happy to hear about the TJ's, but sad to hear about the Crocodile.

its official trader joes will be occupying the new insignia towers at 6th and bell .

THANK YOU GOD! :banana:

This is a great case of best case scenario.

Here's another stumpy residential tower for Belltown's "Park District". This one is actually directly adjacent to OSP. Architect is Ruffcorn Mott Hinthorne Stine.

http://web1.seattle.gov/dpd/luib/Notice.aspx?BID=271&NID=7122

You know, that's about the right height. It's right next to the Motorola building which is about the same height. Looks like they might lose a lot of their park view.

Good to get rid of the 'graffiti wall.'

You know, that's about the right height. It's right next to the Motorola building which is about the same height. Looks like they might lose a lot of their park view.

Good to get rid of the 'graffiti wall.'

Oh yeah, I know that wall you're talking about. What building is that? I'm looking at the site on google earth, this is going to be a very skinny tower. I hope it has a good connection to the OSP.

I doubt it will have ANY direct connection to the park. Just a bad grade to do so as the park is currently designed. Not sure the building, but it is indeed a skinny lot.

Here's another stumpy residential tower for Belltown's "Park District". This one is actually directly adjacent to OSP. Architect is Ruffcorn Mott Hinthorne Stine.

http://web1.seattle.gov/dpd/luib/Notice.aspx?BID=271&NID=7122

I came across that building the other day while looking to see what Martin Selig was up to these days. I think that will be his first residential development.

http://www.martinselig.com/development.php

Just curious if anyone know what retail might be going into to the ground level of Rollins Street. Looks like room for many great things. I know a nice restaurant will hold the corner of Denny and Westlake, but else? I'm sure stuff to compliment 2200. No need for a Starbucks as there's one at 2200 and another a block or two away at the the Group Health Building. This neighborhood needs a drugstore and perhaps another bank other than BofA. Great opportunity for retail with a trolley stop directly in front. I could see a Pier One or something similar fitting in this area nicely. Other suggestions? Lots of storefronts to fill.

I think a coffee shop would do great there....coffee shops try to locate close to Starbucks because consumers are less drawn to commercialized coffee these days....

I personally drink one coffee a week and try my best to avoid starbucks, I prefer a local shop any day of the week...sorry to get off topic.....

I'm just thinking that this will probably be high rent for an independent. 2200 has already lost a retailer since opening. Of course most of their retail has NO visibility to passers-by and appear to serve no other than residents and guests of 2200.

You may have already noticed this, but Amazon made their forthcoming move to SLU official here today.

You may have already noticed this, but Amazon made their forthcoming move to SLU official here today.

This was the first time it's been made official. There was a lot of wink wink, nudge nudge talk before about a "large tennant" moving to SLU, but they couldn't say the name because it hadn't been made official yet.

I'm just thinking that this will probably be high rent for an independent. 2200 has already lost a retailer since opening. Of course most of their retail has NO visibility to passers-by and appear to serve no other than residents and guests of 2200.

I'm sure the satellite tenants will get hit with $40 sf NNN. We are starting to see some softening in the retial sector though, so who knows by then....I really don't like the in line space at 2200. I don't think that I would want to be located there. You do however get parking though, which is huge. I wonder how Koots tea is doing. I think highly of that business, I hope it survives.

The other retail space that I have been eyeing is the space at the cosmo. They want a restaurant/lounge/coffee shop there. I think that space will by dynamite in a couple of years. They are asking $40 NNN (about 2k sf) right now for lease or it is still avaibale for sale at $1MM, without parking.

While we are talking about downtown retail, we can look forward to the opening of the The Capital Grill on 4th and university, sometime in February.....this place is a cross between ruth chris and el gaucho....I'm looking forward to this one.....should be a good place for drinks after work.....

What's there now (or what was there)?

I'm surprised how long it's taking for the Capital Grill to open. It looked finished to the casual observer maybe a month ago. Probably too hard to staff it and get open during the holidays? Maybe they were smart to make sure they could have a quality opening and make good first impressions with customers.

There's so much construction right near the Cosmopolitan (along with the "Urban Rest Stop(?) across the street) that I'd think prospective tenants would be concerned about renting retail.

I'm surpised as well how long it has taken for the capital grill, especially given that the grocery store has been open for some time now below the CG....The capital grill has looked finished for at least a month now....

the cosmo site is heavy in construction, but those soon to be compleleted buildings will serve as a strong and affluent client base when completed in 2 years.....west 8th, olive 8, olivian, maybe ava, the 2 schnitzer towers, aspira, enso, rollin, etc...that space at the cosmo is going to be money for a restaurant/lounge....I wish I could buy it....not to mention the cosmo residents are hungry for a lounge/restaurant....plus you have a state of the art built in security system directly across the street...I can't say enough good things about that space..

It's official:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2004086561_webamazon21.html

Friday, December 21, 2007
Amazon will move headquarters to S. Lake Union complex
By Eric Pryne
Seattle Times business reporter

The worst-kept secret in Seattle real estate is no longer a secret.

Amazon.com and developers Vulcan Real Estate and Schnitzer West announced this afternoon that the online retailer will move its corporate headquarters to South Lake Union.

The company will consolidate its now-scattered Seattle operations in up to 11 new buildings on six blocks bounded by John Street, Terry Avenue, Mercer Street and Boren Avenue, the companies said in a prepared statement.

Altogether, Amazon will lease up to 1.6 million square feet from Vulcan and Schnitzer, the firms said. Amazon said it expects to start moving in by mid-2010.

The company now occupies about 640,000 square feet in and around downtown Seattle, including 190,000 square feet at its current headquarters, the Pacific Medical Center on Beacon Hill.

Word of the company's move had been rumored for months. Wright Runstad, Amazon's landlord on Beacon Hill, said last month that it had started showing the Amazon space to prospective new tenants, even though its lease isn't scheduled to expire for more than two years.

The last apparent obstacle was removed Monday, when the City Council approved a land-use code change Vulcan had sought to allow taller buildings — up to 12 stories — on some of the property Amazon now will occupy.

I'm very excited about the new AmaZone! Drove through there today. Nothing but a collection of old warehouses and storage facilities. There is one classic-looking building (again, a warehouse) that I think people were bitching about being torn down years ago. I don't think it will be missed.

Also, nice to see that they are tearing up Terry Ave. This is the raod running parallel to Westlake that had all the old railroad tracks running through it. Supposedly in the Master Plan for SLU, this was to become a Green Street. Hopefully they are in the process of doing so. Most of the AmaZone will front Terry so the transformation is pretty much inevitable.

I wonder how Koots tea is doing. I think highly of that business, I hope it survives.

The other retail space that I have been eyeing is the space at the cosmo. They want a restaurant/lounge/coffee shop there. I think that space will by dynamite in a couple of years. They are asking $40 NNN (about 2k sf) right now for lease or it is still avaibale for sale at $1MM, without parking.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003984445_koots31.html

Koots has already closed at 2200.

I was walking by Gameworks the other day and noticed when you go in at the Pike St. entrance its been turned into a sportsbar. Plasma tvs and all. All the games are gone on that side. Its just a restaurant/sportsbar. I can't remember the name of it.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003984445_koots31.html

Koots has already closed at 2200.

What a complete disaster..moment of silence for Koots please....I really tought that Koots would have done well in Seattle. Their loctaion in Bellevue is a knock out, hopefully they can survive...I belive that Koot's is a Japan based company and Bellevue was their first location in America....Shinka tea seems to be expanding in the region so hopefully their is a demand for the teahouse concept....

one last word about the 2200 location....it seems like they were open at really odd times and very limited. They would open at 10 am and close by 5 or 6pm....every time I walked by it, the store seemed to be closed.....it has to be hard to survive with those limited hours......too bad they spent all that TI money on a failed location.....

Noticed a proposed land use sign when I was on the bus today on an apartment building at Pine and Bellevue. Its one of those ugly ones on stilts above a parking lot so hopefully there'll be no bitching if it gets torn down.

Below from: http://seattlecondosandlofts.com

Martin Selig Real Estate is proposing a new 14-story apartment building adjacent to the Olympic Sculpture Park. Located on the north end of the park, residents at the 3031 Western project will enjoy unobstructed front-row park, downtown and Elliott Bay views.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7663/3031westernno6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

"…the vision calls for layers of glass “veils” with various degrees of translucency and transparency to create an ephemeral and ever-changing canvas for light and shadow as viewed from the park. Balconies of each unit will feature floor-to-ceiling glass, blurring the boundaries between interior and exterior spaces…"

But, those glass “veils” come at a price, at least for Alexandria and Trio owners. The proposed building will sit directly across from the North half of the Alexandria and will likely block most of the SW park & bay views from Trio.

An early design guidance meeting for the project has been scheduled for Tuesday, January 8th at 5:30pm. The meeting will take place in the Boards and Commissions Room L280 at Seattle City Hall.

This rendering looks nice, but it will be interesting to see what new one they come up with. This area is sure getting dense.

Noticed a proposed land use sign when I was on the bus today on an apartment building at Pine and Bellevue. Its one of those ugly ones on stilts above a parking lot so hopefully there'll be no bitching if it gets torn down.

The interesting thing about this project is that the building that is being torn down looks as though it was built in the 1970's, and it was very recently (within 18 mos.) remodelled.

^^^^
That buidling is a disaster!!!! That buidling completed its renovation in the last 6 months or so....that is the worst rehab job I have seen to date for an apartment building....the paint job looks terrible and so does basically everything else....great location though.....good piece to redevelop.....hope it works out a little better this time around....

Capitol hill is really going to change in the next couple of years.....

Childrens Hospital is getting closer! Read:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2004093747&zsection_id=2003907475&slug=childrens27&date=20071227

The interesting thing about this project is that the building that is being torn down looks as though it was built in the 1970's, and it was very recently (within 18 mos.) remodelled.

I'm probably in the minority on this board, but I'm hoping this one doesn't go through. The exsiting building is ugly, sure, but it's providing reasonable density already and at its age, the rent is probably low. Redeveloping it into something shiny and new will further reduce affordability along Pine/Pike. I'd much rather see some of the other nearby proposals go through: the Club Z redevelopment, or the parking lot near Northwest School on Pike, or the office building overlooking the highway at Pine/Melrose.

In other Capitol Hill news, does anyone know anything about the small project that looks to be underway along Pike between 11th and 12th, slightly to the west of 12th & Pike?

Higher rents are a ramification of redevlopment...however, I feel that the pros far outweigh the cons.....it is a selfish view but a new building will possibly attract a more afflunet resident base that will support the local businesses to a stronger degree than the existing residents, maybe reduce crime, increase density, add retail?, and promote a more aestetically pleasing building and street scape...

I don't like losing low-cost units either, particularly in Pike/Pine.

But, on a broader scale, the best weapon we have for affordability is to have more units, and this project represents a net add. The domino (or butterfly) effect of new units is that people move out of less-desirable units, and those will tend to become more affordable.

I don't like losing low-cost units either, particularly in Pike/Pine.

But, on a broader scale, the best weapon we have for affordability is to have more units, and this project represents a net add. The domino (or butterfly) effect of new units is that people move out of less-desirable units, and those will tend to become more affordable.

Yeah, I understand that effect, and I do support adding units in general.

That said, I'm not sure the dominos fall fully. That is, I don't think one new unit replacing one old unit is a net break-even for affordability. I'm not sure where the unit counts balance out (that is, how many new units = 1 old unit); I'd be interested to hear what people who know more about rental economics think.

Anyway, given that I think lack of affordability is a bigger threat to Pine/Pike's vitality than crime/poverty is, I'd err on the side of developing slowly there. If this project were in Hilltop in Tacoma, I'd support it fully. Also, I think I'll be more okay with Capitol Hill redevelopment (and loss of low-rent units) once the light rail is in and the area is more accessible from other lower rent areas (i.e. Beacon Hill/Ranier Valley).

Yeah, I understand that effect, and I do support adding units in general.

That said, I'm not sure the dominos fall fully. That is, I don't think one new unit replacing one old unit is a net break-even for affordability. I'm not sure where the unit counts balance out (that is, how many new units = 1 old unit); I'd be interested to hear what people who know more about rental economics think.

Anyway, given that I think lack of affordability is a bigger threat to Pine/Pike's vitality than crime/poverty is, I'd err on the side of developing slowly there. If this project were in Hilltop in Tacoma, I'd support it fully. Also, I think I'll be more okay with Capitol Hill redevelopment (and loss of low-rent units) once the light rail is in and the area is more accessible from other lower rent areas (i.e. Beacon Hill/Ranier Valley).

This is exactly how I feel and the basis for a lot of the concerns I raised in this thread.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=552892

I'm glad I'm not the only one with this concern.

Without looking at the property records, I'm wondering if this building was sold recently? That would explain the recent remodel and then sudden demolition.

I wondered the same thing myself....but why would you want to put money into an asset that you are going to raze.....there a number of scenarios to consider I guess....one thought is that, maybe he is just pushing it through entitlements and in the interim he wanted to jack the rents and increase occupancy during the could be lengthy process??? Not really sure what to say abouit it but it the property is in an A+ location.

I wondered the same thing myself....but why would you want to put money into an asset that you are going to raze.....there a number of scenarios to consider I guess....one thought is that, maybe he is just pushing it through entitlements and in the interim he wanted to jack the rents and increase occupancy during the could be lengthy process??? Not really sure what to say abouit it but it the property is in an A+ location.

It appears to be mostly vacant now, maybe one or two occupied units. Quite odd.

There may be structural or functional issues with the building. These may have been attempted to be fixed during the remodel, but were done unsuccessfully resulting in low tenancy and a sale. Ehh, it's a theory.

Okay, I've gotten some more information on this project (1605 Bellevue Ave., the corner of Bellevue Ave. and E Pine St.):

http://web1.seattle.gov/DPD/permitstatus/Project.aspx?id=3007778

As it states, this is replacing a 26 unit apartment building that is sort of on stilts with parking on ground level (basically no street appeal) with a 6 story building with 103 units, and street level retail. This should improve the streetscape, but with a net loss of 26 more affordable units.

The property is assessed at $1,488,000 for the land, $1,273,000 for the 26 unit building, which was built in 1966. The project was sold in July of 2007 for $4,343,500.

So this answers our questions, financially this makes sense. You have land worth (tax wise) 1.5 million, but on the market, at least $4.5million, (purchase price plus demolition costs). Tear the building down, even though its not in that deplorable condition, but build 4 times the number of units, plus retail, your return on investment is much, much larger.

This makes me think. I wonder how many other properties are large enough to sustain this kind of development on the Pike/Pine corridor?

On a non related note, other than the neighborhood, has anybody heard anything more about the near full block project where Linda's/ Bill's off Broadway/ BMW Seattle is? I noticed that they've raised the two blocks down off of Airport way, just north of Royal Brougham for the new BMW dealership which is moving there, so I guess its just a matter of time that we'll be hearing about this one.

Okay, so another question for everybody. Are our commercial property valuations excessively low? I'm not pushing for a tax increase or anything, but this seems wildly off the mark. Just a question, not advocating one way or the other.

I'm very curious about this. Anyone?

Okay, I've gotten some more information on this project (1605 Bellevue Ave., the corner of Bellevue Ave. and E Pine St.):

http://web1.seattle.gov/DPD/permitstatus/Project.aspx?id=3007778

As it states, this is replacing a 26 unit apartment building that is sort of on stilts with parking on ground level (basically no street appeal) with a 6 story building with 103 units, and street level retail. This should improve the streetscape, but with a net loss of 26 more affordable units.

The property is assessed at $1,488,000 for the land, $1,273,000 for the 26 unit building, which was built in 1966. The project was sold in July of 2007 for $4,343,500.

So this answers our questions, financially this makes sense. You have land worth (tax wise) 1.5 million, but on the market, at least $4.5million, (purchase price plus demolition costs). Tear the building down, even though its not in that deplorable condition, but build 4 times the number of units, plus retail, your return on investment is much, much larger.

This makes me think. I wonder how many other properties are large enough to sustain this kind of development on the Pike/Pine corridor?

On a non related note, other than the neighborhood, has anybody heard anything more about the near full block project where Linda's/ Bill's off Broadway/ BMW Seattle is? I noticed that they've raised the two blocks down off of Airport way, just north of Royal Brougham for the new BMW dealership which is moving there, so I guess its just a matter of time that we'll be hearing about this one.

I believe that is Kurt Pryde's site....he has enough trouble with his existing condo projects in Ballard and Greenlake right to even begin to think about another condo project....he has to roll with the punches on his current projects, his development on Greenlake is having alot more success that his project in Ballard....He will not be converting the Ballard project to apartments or a hotel...he is going to wait it out and sell the units....

:scouserd::cheers::drunk:Hey look at us getting the banner on New Years Eve

YAY!!! Happy New Years everyone!

Well I must say that Bond does a very nice run-down of Seattle at SSP. Yes the Seattle/Bellevue forumers at SSC are very informative and good posters. I congratulate the SEA/Bellevue forumers on a “Job well done.” :cheers1: You forumers provide allot of great info that otherwise would have been scrap and thus give us a much better view of our city. Thank you! :)great city have holidayed there 3 years ago.loved it.take alook AT SHEFFIELD METRO THREAD UKhttp://www.hrionline.ac.uk/matshef/holmes/hol2.jpg

Hey guys Ive got a simple question here I always forget to ask. Ive been living downtown for about 1 1/2 years and still cant find a single place to get a baguette after I get home from work (around 6pm)..somewhere within walking distance of Westlake Center. Any ideas?

Hey guys Ive got a simple question here I always forget to ask. Ive been living downtown for about 1 1/2 years and still cant find a single place to get a baguette after I get home from work (around 6pm)..somewhere within walking distance of Westlake Center. Any ideas?

DeLaurenti, Whole Foods, um...Buehler, anybody?

Give it a couple months and the IGA Kress ought to have baguettes.

Louie's on the Pike until 8:00? A couple other places at the market until 5:30 maybe, like Delaurenti, Le Panier...?

Definitely Whole Foods.

8th & Madison though it's a longer walk.

Have you tried the new store at 4th & University? No idea if it has those.

hmm..looks like whole foods is still my default place. Thats what I figured. Itd be nice for a convenient little place to be nearby after 6:00 but whattareyagonnado.

I'm surpised as well how long it has taken for the capital grill, especially given that the grocery store has been open for some time now below the CG....The capital grill has looked finished for at least a month now....


I love the inside of the Capital Grill.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2005/2151516762_b9d1d67575.jpg

Hey guys Ive got a simple question here I always forget to ask. Ive been living downtown for about 1 1/2 years and still cant find a single place to get a baguette after I get home from work (around 6pm)..somewhere within walking distance of Westlake Center. Any ideas?

I think a better question is "Where can I pick up a cheap hooker after work? You know, just to um, research..." - 85th and Aurora or the Sea-Tac area is your best bet.

I love the inside of the Capital Grill.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2005/2151516762_b9d1d67575.jpg

Capitol grill is scheduled for a soft opening on February 4th (I will be there). It will be operating on traditional business hours starting February 5th. I'm looking forward to having CG in the restaurant mix. It should be packed after work and on the weekends. I think CG is going to do well very in Seattle.

Did anyone notice the 6-story, 113-unit residential project in DR for that hated parking lot at Western & Blanchard? With extra parking, probably for Market vistors?

And the 7-story, 84-unit low-income project by Plyouth Housing Group also in DR for the north 1/3 of the parking lot at First & Cedar? (I live nearby on First and gave money already.)

And the MUP application for the 6-story, 103-unit project at Pine & Bellevue replacing the current small apartment building on stilts?

What a great Thursday issue... Three annoyances addressed in one week, all by good infill.

Did anyone notice the 6-story, 113-unit residential project in DR for that hated parking lot at Western & Blanchard? With extra parking, probably for Market vistors?

And the 7-story, 84-unit low-income project by Plyouth Housing Group also in DR for the north 1/3 of the parking lot at First & Cedar? (I live nearby on First and gave money already.)

And the MUP application for the 6-story, 103-unit project at Pine & Bellevue replacing the current small apartment building on stilts?

What a great Thursday issue... Three annoyances addressed in one week, all by good infill.

That project at Western and Blanchard is going to be flanked by nightclubs on virtually all sides. Venom, Twilight, and Belltown Billiards are all a few footsteps away. It'll definitely cater to those who want to live where all the action is.

I think it's Venom that's instead becoming part of the mars hill wierdo empire.

Yes, it'll be noisy. I wouldn't live on the north or west sides unless units were set back a bit. The south or east faces inside of the block would be fine, particularly the plan is an L shape with the open area on the inside of the block. But I'm more sensitive to noise than some people.

That was Tabella that was shut down and converted to a Mars Hill Church. Venom is still there and poppin' every weekend!

That was Tabella that was shut down and converted to a Mars Hill Church. Venom is still there and poppin' every weekend!

This apartment building is being built on the lot in front of that big grey monstrosity.

Holy Crap! Our Gov has got balls!!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/346052_gregoire04.html

I totally agree! And I'm sure most in this forum will apporve of her shit-or-get-off-the-pot approach to solving the viaduct problem.

I've always been a proponent of a surface solution. This will certainly edge things that way. It might even get her reelected.

Holy Crap! Our Gov has got balls!!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/346052_gregoire04.html

I totally agree! And I'm sure most in this forum will apporve of her shit-or-get-off-the-pot approach to solving the viaduct problem.

I've always been a proponent of a surface solution. This will certainly edge things that way. It might even get her reelected.

Hey, I'm a fan of the surface solution. :)

Eventually, the "oh god traffic" people will realize that no, actually, traffic studies show traffic won't worsen from removing structures like that, in fact, traffic will likely improve because there will be fewer cars dumped onto surface streets.

:applause: Wow I like it. :cheers1:

Sims likes it too. He's more influential these days than Chopp or Nickels. Chopp wants a viaduct and Nickels wants the tunnel.

Damn! Gregoire has got some balls!! Lol.

I'm glad they're finally starting to get of the narrow focus on the viaduct, and realize that many other major roadways have problems that need to be addressed. I-5 through downtown is a mess, and navigating the downtown streets isn't always easy either.

I say: surface option, remove 1 or 2 ramps from I-5 downtown, re-do the rest, fix the mercer mess, add BRT-ish features downtown (bus lanes, ticket booths, etc.), and build light rail out the ying yang.

^^ agreed! i think there are probably a few places that could have street parking removed as well.

It seems like while the viaduct is being replaced we will have to go on with nothing at all for a certain amount of time--No tunnel, no surface option, no new viaduct, no current viaduct? I am very curious to see what would happen during this time. Perhaps we don't need as much capacity as we think we do.

I am impressed with the deadline, without one we would 'study' the problem forever.

Surface it already. Remember the lessons learned about when they shut down I-5 for a while a few months ago? People adapt, people rode Sounder, took buses, carpooled. It's not going to be all hell if we invest more into transit to offset the capacity issue.

I just think N-S transportation through Seattle is more flexible than some of the politicians believe, closing I-5 proved that.

Yes, surface. Just don't turn Downtown streets into highways -- we need wide sidewalks, two-way traffic is best, and curbside parking is helpful for pedestrian safety.

I read this today and wondered about how wonderful a waterfront we could have in the future. My fingers are crossed for the best.

Did anybody see that the Dennys site in Ballard has a possibility of making the historic preservation list whch will derail the planned 260 unit apartment complex for the site....what a Benoraoya disaster...

Being discussed at the Ballard News thread. Join there.

It seems like while the viaduct is being replaced we will have to go on with nothing at all for a certain amount of time--No tunnel, no surface option, no new viaduct, no current viaduct? I am very curious to see what would happen during this time. Perhaps we don't need as much capacity as we think we do.

I don't think we need nearly as much as we think we do. I watched a video diary by a Briton who mocked the fact that on so many American highways, cars are stuffed (i.e. coerced) onto ten-lane highways yet limited in speed to, like, 50 miles per hour. Ha. So true. I think we can do fine without our monster highways. I like the expression "park to shop, not shop to park" to refer to priorities.

I think its fine for the governor to step up and make a deadline. But the funny thing is we knew that this year she would make some tough decisions. Its re-election time. Does she want her job bad enough. Re-build that concrete wall and she is out of a job, build the tunnel and she might be out of a job.....Surface option is the only option I think where she could be re-elected. Typical politics. Makes me sick. She will only do what is good for her to stay in office.

I don't think we need nearly as much as we think we do. I watched a video diary by a Briton who mocked the fact that on so many American highways, cars are stuffed (i.e. coerced) onto ten-lane highways yet limited in speed to, like, 50 miles per hour. Ha. So true. I think we can do fine without our monster highways. I like the expression "park to shop, not shop to park" to refer to priorities.

Of course! It's not even a "think" - we know that adding capacity increases congestion, and we also know that reducing capacity reduces congestion.

Sure, it will take time for people to adapt, but the *real* end result (after decades) will be people walking more and driving less.

I agree with both of you. It's just tough to explain that to the Starbucks headquarter employee who lives in Shoreline. Most think the only way to improve their commute is to add lanes. The sadest thing is the billions that get spent, the hundreds of homes that get demolished to add two lanes of freeway - all to save the average commuter 7.5 minutes in the morning. I think the solution isn't in our commute, but rather in the design of our workday.

In the paper today it said that the developer of the Smith Tower will only turn 12 floors into condos. It shows you that things are beginning to slow down.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2004112979_smithtower08.html

I agree with both of you. It's just tough to explain that to the Starbucks headquarter employee who lives in Shoreline. Most think the only way to improve their commute is to add lanes. The sadest thing is the billions that get spent, the hundreds of homes that get demolished to add two lanes of freeway - all to save the average commuter 7.5 minutes in the morning. I think the solution isn't in our commute, but rather in the design of our workday.

There's no problem with the design of our workday - there are plenty of places around the world with basically the same workday and no giant traffic problems. They just built dense, generally without highways in the core. You can have very high density cores with mixed use and no highways at all - when density gets high (and I mean Europe-style, 7-8 story density, not skyscrapers), you end up with everything close enough together that travel times by foot are fine for many commutes. Mass transit is just step 2.

While, the design of our workday may not be the issue, it is really annoying when everyone says that europe has no traffic issues...have you guys ever tried to get in or out of paris or london during rush hour? if you think seattle has bad traffic you would kill yourself being stuck in that...however both those cities have excellent mass transit, so if your driving it really is your own fault!

While, the design of our workday may not be the issue, it is really annoying when everyone says that europe has no traffic issues...have you guys ever tried to get in or out of paris or london during rush hour? if you think seattle has bad traffic you would kill yourself being stuck in that...however both those cities have excellent mass transit, so if your driving it really is your own fault!

Yes, actually, in the past few months I've been in both cities at rush hour. But Seattle isn't Paris or London - it's much smaller. In Seattle-sized cities in Europe, the traffic problems are nowhere near those two. What's most important here is that traffic is a problem for a *much smaller slice of the population* in Europe.

Trust me, Europeans do not have our workday, workweek, workyear, etc.

Trust me, Europeans do not have our workday, workweek, workyear, etc.

Okay, first, don't even consider talking down to me. My French fiancee and I talk about US versus European living constantly, and the time I spend there with her family lets me see a lot of it firsthand.

None of the differences there have anything to do with traffic congestion.

Okay, first, don't even consider talking down to me. My French fiancee and I talk about US versus European living constantly, and the time I spend there with her family lets me see a lot of it firsthand.

None of the differences there have anything to do with traffic congestion.

You should try being less of an asshole.

uhh i didn't think he was being an asshole.

It's OK, I'm moving on. Some take life too seriously.

Bgwah, did you know the French only work 35 hours per week ON AVERAGE vs the US at 40? They also get AN AVERAGE of 36 days vacation per year compared to the US getting only 13?

It's OK, I'm moving on. Some take life too seriously.

Bgwah, did you know the French only work 35 hours per week ON AVERAGE vs the US at 40? They also get AN AVERAGE of 36 days vacation per year compared to the US getting only 13?

In fact, over in Alsace and parts of Lorraine, they get three more vacation days than the rest of France - Good Friday, Boxing Day, and a third I can't remember.

What generally happens is workers work 40 hours a week, but get the extra hours as flextime and take more vacation days.

You should try being less of an asshole.

Sorry, I just hate it when people start a statement with "trust me".

Um, peeps, this is a thread about Seattle development, not about the length of the French work week.

Sorry, I'm not one to tangent. Thanks for bringing us back.

Um, peeps, this is a thread about Seattle development, not about the length of the French work week.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Other places have urban planning solutions that work - regardless of cultural differences, they still commute, and they're doing it without losing hours each year to congestion.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Other places have urban planning solutions that work - regardless of cultural differences, they still commute, and they're doing it without losing hours each year to congestion.

It helps when your population booms dont happen during the automobile revolution, too.

It helps when your population booms dont happen during the automobile revolution, too.

Well, sure. That doesn't mean we don't have to fix it.

"It helps when your population booms dont happen during the automobile revolution, too."

Bing bing bing, we have a winner! All of our planning problems stem from planning around the auto, now there are so many autos our system is broken.

ALRIGHT, ENOUGH ALREADY! Let's talk about architecture guys.

Good idea, lets ignore the context in which the buildings are being created and instead keep design in a silo:)

Its true!! Instead of just the U Village location, H&M plan to open three stores here by this fall. The other two will be at Southcenter and one (YES!!) downtown at 520 Pike St. Trying to picture that corner. Isn't it where Kenneth Cole is? They must have had their day on that corner. Too bad.

I haven't looked at this thread for a three days and you guys went through two pages with 5 different topics. lol

By the way, I don't see what's wrong with the tunnel option. Is cost the only issue?

Sorry, I didn't know where to post the H&M news. Now being discussed in the Seattle Shopping Centers thread.

Tunnel is too costly and will take to long to study, design, and build (IMHO).

YAY 3 H&Ms that made my DAY!!!!! :D

Amazon Consolidates in Growing Area of Seattle

By KRISTINA SHEVORY
Published: January 9, 2008
Amazon.com, the world’s largest online retailer, will soon finally have one place to call home.

Enlarge This Image

Vulcan Real Estate
A rendering of an Amazon building.
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The company is moving all of its administrative employees, who are now scattered in offices around Seattle, to a single location in the city. It will be the first time all of these employees are together since the founding of Amazon more than a decade ago.

The company is more than doubling its office space. It is also betting that its profits will remain high. If Amazon exercises all of its options, it may spend as much as $1.5 billion under a 16-year agreement to lease 11 buildings in South Lake Union, a lakefront neighborhood a little more than a mile north of downtown.

Construction begins this month, and Amazon’s 4,000 employees are expected to start moving in a little over two years to a campus that will eventually occupy six blocks. “The beauty of South Lake Union is that it gives us space for now and room to grow,” said Patty Smith, an Amazon spokeswoman.

Amazon joins a long list of companies gambling on South Lake Union, a neighborhood largely controlled by Paul Allen, a co-founder of Microsoft.

In only five years, Mr. Allen, who owns 60 acres in the area through his company Vulcan Real Estate, has been quickly transforming the neighborhood from an industrial hub into a high-tech playground with soaring condominium towers, eclectic restaurants and sleek office buildings. Vulcan is the lead developer of the Amazon project.

Mr. Allen became a property owner in South Lake Union when there was a proposal in the mid-1990s to create a large city park in an area that was a hodgepodge of car dealerships, warehouses, shipyards and stores. Mr. Allen lent $20 million to park supporters, who then bought 10 acres of land. When voters rejected the proposal, he got the land.

He then started snapping up more land and eventually amassed 60 acres for more than $250 million. His vision is to put up 10 million square feet of office, medical and residential space. In less than four years, a quarter of it has already been built, and Vulcan estimates it has $1.8 billion invested in South Lake Union.

The tenants read like a who’s who of Seattle. The Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center; REI, the retailer of outdoor gear; ZymoGenetics, a biotech company; and Tommy Bahama, a clothing company, all call the area home. And in the last year, Microsoft signed a lease for 126,000 square feet of space; the Group Health Cooperative, a nonprofit health care system, moved its headquarters there; and the University of Washington’s School of Medicine is expanding its biomedical research campus.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is putting up a 12-acre campus nearby and Seattle Children’s Hospital and Regional Medical Center is assembling a 1.5-million-square-foot research campus.

The moves have helped shave vacancy rates and prop up rents in South Lake Union. Since 2005, the average vacancy rate there has shrunk by half, to 6.2 percent last year, which is lower than downtown, according to Colliers International, a commercial real estate brokerage firm. Annual rents in the submarket hit an average of $27.97 a square foot in 2007, compared with $23.16 in 2005, an increase of 20 percent in two years.

Across the city, it is much the same story. Seattle has largely managed to avoid the economic slowdown hitting other parts of the country because the city’s corporate giants — Microsoft, Starbucks and Amazon — are still hiring. Boeing is selling a record number of commercial jets, trade with Asia remains strong and start-ups fueled by venture capital are opening.

With little new space coming onto the market — most new projects will not open until 2009 — vacancies are expected to shrink further and rents to rise. With such a rosy outlook, Grubb & Ellis, the commercial real estate brokerage firm, has named Seattle as one of the top five markets in the country for investors to buy office space.

“No matter where you build a building downtown or in South Lake Union, they get backfilled pretty quickly with quality tenants,” said Oscar Oliveira, senior vice president at Colliers International in nearby Bellevue, Wash. The city’s low vacancy rate has persuaded several investors to put up buildings without any signed tenants. BioMed Realty Trust, a San Diego-based real estate investment trust that specializes in developing facilities for life science companies, broke ground on a $45 million 93,000-square-foot office-laboratory last year. It is the company’s first speculative building, and it is being built in Seattle because of falling vacancy rates and strong job growth, said Kent Griffin, Bio Med’s chief financial officer.

The Blume Company of Seattle, a real estate development firm, is so bullish on South Lake Union that it has invested nearly $100 million there in the last year. The developer has a new five-story life science and laboratory building under construction and is expected to announce plans this week to build an additional 575,000 square feet of office, biotech and retail space.

“The sooner we have it done, the better,” said Bruce Blume, who owns about seven acres in South Lake Union.

Not all Seattle residents are pleased with South Lake Union’s transformation, however. The Seattle City Council, after a battle, lifted height restrictions on one and a half blocks so that Amazon could build three 12-story buildings. In return, the company will pay $6.3 million to build affordable housing in the area.

Some complain the city is spending far too much on the area, estimating it will cost up to $1 billion for water and sewer lines, street improvements and a new electricity substation. Affordable housing is being driven out of the area, they say, and traffic on already crowded local streets and freeway ramps is likely to become worse. Mercer Street, a four-lane street that runs one way to Interstate 5, cuts off the neighborhood from the lake and is one of the worst traffic problems in the city.

“As long as conditions are what they are, which is dismal, it won’t be the community it’s envisioned to be,” said Peter Steinbrueck, a City Council member who fought Amazon’s height limits before leaving office in December.

Seattle’s mayor, Greg Nickels, who came to power in 2002 in the midst of a recession and promoted the redevelopment of South Lake Union as a jobs engine, bats away the complaints. To him, the city’s spending is producing great results. Already, he says, South Lake Union has created 7,000 jobs; 2.4 million square feet of office, laboratory, retail and hotel space; and 1,850 rentals and condos over the last four years.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20071222/amazon-move.gif

So which buildings are which here? Only ones I can figure are Interurban exchange 2, 4 and 5 which are the 1A and 1B buildings. Anyone know what the others are, or is that still TBD?

Its true!! Instead of just the U Village location, H&M plan to open three stores here by this fall. The other two will be at Southcenter and one (YES!!) downtown at 520 Pike St. Trying to picture that corner. Isn't it where Kenneth Cole is? They must have had their day on that corner. Too bad.

Good point for bringing that up. 520 Pike is where Kenneth Cole is currently located. That is too bad that we have to trade the two, if this infact is the case. I actually really like the KC store, that is a killer location. I wonder when they are closing their doors? Is there a KC in Bellevue?

I almost called them to see if and when they were moving. Probably their staff wouldn't know anything at this time.

deleted.

By the way, I don't see what's wrong with the tunnel option. Is cost the only issue?

Cost and "studying" tie down major projects like this for years it seems. Seattle needs to grow a pair and start building like the world city it is becoming.

I'm so afraid that in 10 years we will have a make do surface solution on Alaskan Way, no NBA team due to lack of support for an arena, the same 520 bridge and still limited light rail mobility. :mad2:

Am I being pessimistic or realistic? I guess only time will tell :dunno:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/346949_blume11.html

Friday, January 11, 2008
Last updated 12:19 a.m. PT
South Lake Union is growing again
By JOSEPH TARTAKOFF
P-I REPORTER

A Seattle property developer will remake two blocks in the South Lake Union neighborhood into an office, biotech and retail campus with four new office buildings and thousands of square feet of retail space.

At a total of 776,000 square feet and a cost of roughly $240 million, the project, named the Yale Campus, will be one of the largest developments in the already booming neighborhood. Over the past five years, developers have added more than 4 million square feet of space to South Lake Union, according to city numbers. And just last month, Amazon.com said it would lease up to 1.6 million square feet in 11 planned buildings there.

The new development, owned by The Blume Co., will span two adjacent blocks at the intersection of Mercer Street and Yale Avenue North. The blocks, to be lined with retail space, will be linked by a series of plazas, and automobiles will have to travel at walking speed.

"We don't want it to look like a suburban office campus," said Bruce Blume, founder and chief executive of The Blume Co. Construction is set to start in December.

Blume bought one of the blocks -- bounded by Yale and Pontius avenues north and Mercer and Republican streets -- in May for $22 million. The site is filled by several unoccupied buildings and parking lots, he said. They will be replaced by three, four-story office buildings, with retail on the ground floor.

The company already owned the lots north of Mercer, between Pontius and Eastlake Avenue East, and Blume will build one seven-story office building with ground floor retail there. Blume said that two existing office buildings on the site are fully occupied and will remain. One existing tenant is the Seattle Cancer Care Alliance.

Two of the new office buildings will house life sciences tenants, although no tenants have been signed for any of the new buildings yet.

While the city initially projected that South Lake Union would be a biotech hub, other uses in the neighborhood, particularly housing and retail, have taken off much more quickly. Still, Blume said he was unconcerned, stating that while demand for space from venture-capital backed biotech businesses might be lower than expected, there is substantial interest from institutional users.

Initially, he said, he did not plan to have so much retail at the Yale Campus but that changed after he saw the success of the retailers at Alley 24 and the REI store nearby.

Blume imagines that office workers will shop or eat by day at the campus, while residents will shop or eat there by night. Constance Wilde, a vice president at CB Richard Ellis and the retail listing broker for the project, said she would try to identify a "critical mass" of retailers and added that they would avoid formulaic retail.

Blume said he was aware that the real estate business was cyclical, but at the same time added that development in South Lake Union was unprecedented.

"I've never experienced anything like what is happening in South Lake Union right now (with) so many world-class institutions flocking into one neighborhood with as much enthusiasm as is currently happening there right now," he said. "Everybody wants to be there."

He added that there were few prime spaces remaining that had not been purchased by Vulcan Inc., the neighborhood's major developer.

The Blume Co., of course, has also bet heavily on the neighborhood's development.

In addition to the Yale Campus, the company is constructing 1100 Eastlake, a high-tech office/lab building across the street from the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. No tenants have been signed, although Blume said the company was in serious discussions with "four or five." The company also owns Eastlake Center I and II on the east side of Lake Union.

^
And a rendering from the DJC.

http://www.djc.com/stories/images/20080111/YaleRendering_web.jpg

Nice looking! I knew something was going to happen soon in that area. A friend of mine used to work in one the buildings set to go bye-bye. With these buildings and the one under construction at Mercer and Fairview, that will pretty much finish the entire redevelopment of Mercer east of Fairview.

Did you also notice the 80-unit "motel" for Seattle Cancer Care Alliance patients that just broke ground across from Alley 24? Interesting curved facade.

This whole area is growing like crazy! Do you have a rendering of the"curved motel?"

It's on the public portion of the DJC website.

I just walked by the old building on Pike that is next to the alley and the 1521 2nd Ave site. There's a typical construction chain link fence protruding way out into the sidewalk - is demolition happening soon for this mini-tower? sorry if mentioned elsewhere.

yeah i noticed that too. it's not tall but it's a nice design and is nice to see some of the smaller lots get developed. if anyone has a rendering could you post it?

http://students.washington.edu/quail64/SCCASouthLake_web_200x.jpg

:-/

The windows are sterile and bland, it's solid brown, and the roof just abruptly ends. I would be a little depressed to stay in a building this ugly. Thank god it has the curvature otherwise this building would be a total waste of space. And is that the streetcar line? Is this uninspired architecture what we think it's OK to build up our city with?

I just walked by the old building on Pike that is next to the alley and the 1521 2nd Ave site. There's a typical construction chain link fence protruding way out into the sidewalk - is demolition happening soon for this mini-tower? sorry if mentioned elsewhere.

This beauty?:applause:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b142/Dancer-2/114pikeba3.jpg

Citrus -- I think the curve helps the building immesurably. It basically "saves" the design. This is several blocks east of the streetcar, with Alley 24 in the foreground.

I'm excited about the project on Pike. Hopefully it'll start! That neighborhood needs a big infusion of residents, and it'll improve the part-shabby view from First & Pike. Furthermore, the project would do great things for a problematic block.

Aren't those rails in the rendering? Or is that a really old street with an early streetcar line.

Also, I like the project on pike because it brings residents in, but I don't generally like tearing down serviceable old brick buildings. They add alot of character to Seattle, and I'd be sad to see too many of them go.

Yep, that's the site I was thinking of. Here are pics from this morning.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h17/seasun_01/S6300173.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h17/seasun_01/S6300174.jpg

I have a question - does Seattle plan on building any supertalls or close to that in the future? I was not able to find anything. If no - it sounds amazing to me - such a beautiful city and is not planning any of them. :)

I have a question - does Seattle plan on building any supertalls or close to that in the future? I was not able to find anything. If no - it sounds amazing to me - such a beautiful city and is not planning any of them. :)

My understanding is there is only one block left in downtown Seattle that could get to the height you are talking about, and there aren't any plans for a supertall.

Another thing that's been happening lately, is smaller buildings seem to have an easier time with financing, and an easier time with leasing.

3rd and Pine area update:


-Columbia Sportswear plans to open a store in the bottom of the Macys Garage on the northeast corner of 3rd and Pine.

-An Equinox gym is opening at the bottom of 1 Hotel and Residences.

-The owner of Vessel plans to open an upscale whiskey-centric bar to replace the used bookstore across from Chocolate Box.

New owners for the Crocodile?
By Tom Scanlon

Seattle Times staff reporter

Related

Archive | The Croc's closure like losing a friend
Archive | Music dies at renowned Crocodile
A deal to sell the Crocodile Cafe, the legendary nightclub that closed last month, may be in its final stages. Groupee Venues today applied to take over the Crocodile's liquor license, according to the Washington state Liquor Control Board.

Stephanie Dorgan, who ran the Crocodile from 1991 to last December, could not be reached for comment.

Listed on the liquor application as partners are Edward H. O'Neill, Rose Mary H. O'Neill, Lori L. Hope and Robert N. Hope. All except the latter are listed as Groupee employees on the company's Web site.

"I have no comment at this time," said Lori Hope. Asked if her group had purchased the Crocodile, she said, "I cannot confirm or deny that."

According to Groupee's Web site: "Groupee, Inc. (formerly Infopop Corporation) is a privately held company based in Seattle, Wash. We have over 10 years experience in software development and enterprise hosting for online communities. Our customer list includes: Discovery Communications, Warner Brothers, Scripps, Rodale, The Weather Channel, Financial Times, Mattel, Ubisoft, The Home Shopping Network, Military.com and Xerox. Our enterprise hosting operation currently serves hundreds of millions of page views per month."

The Crocodile hosted shows by the likes of Nirvana, Hole, R.E.M. and the Beastie Boys over the years.

^^^

Good mole work......keep it up. I'm excited about the whiskey bar becuase vessel is a knockout, one of my favorite bars in the city....

isn't there already a whiskey bar like 3 blocks from there :-P

isn't there already a whiskey bar like 3 blocks from there :-P

hahaha nice.


This one will be focused on bourbon, from what I hear.

Whisky bar? Bourbon bar? Doesn't seem that logical to me, but then again, what do I know?

Whisky bar? Bourbon bar? Doesn't seem that logical to me, but then again, what do I know?

Specialists are a huge benefit of dense urban areas. :)

from Seattlest:

Wayne Wentz, Seattle's traffic management director, says the city is considering finally doing something about the Pine Street Zigzag. Officials do not know what changes are coming, but construction is expected to begin in 2009. In the meantime, he says the city will put up "Do Not Cross Here" signs on the north side of Pine at Boren. :banana:

3rd and Pine area update:


-Columbia Sportswear plans to open a store in the bottom of the Macys Garage on the northeast corner of 3rd and Pine.

-An Equinox gym is opening at the bottom of 1 Hotel and Residences.

-The owner of Vessel plans to open an upscale whiskey-centric bar to replace the used bookstore across from Chocolate Box.

-1 Hotel and Residences will begin building when they reach 30% occupancy, which they plan to reach by this summer.

A big gymnasium? Most people won't be able to use it--just members. It should have been a department store. More people would have a reason to go to a department store. Far more people will just be passing by on their way to some other place, watching from the sidewalk the few who can use the gym work out on the treadmill on arguably the busiest shopping street in the city. (???) And Columbia Sportswear? I don't expect an elegant or haute couture clothier to open at the bottom of the Macy's garage, but another sportswear shop? Geez, when will Seattle ever get fashion sense? It's the last place in the world to have any, and then the provincial old-timers scream in pain when an out-of-town shop like H&M opens up. Oh well. Hopefully the gym will go out of business, they'll renovate the space, and open up a more practical department-style store there that is more relevant to more people. An electronics store would be nice, so that people could actually buy . . . *drumroll* . . . a television set, phone, or computer downtown. *GASP!* The novelty of it!

I have a question - does Seattle plan on building any supertalls or close to that in the future? I was not able to find anything. If no - it sounds amazing to me - such a beautiful city and is not planning any of them. :)

The citizens are very resistant to any change. Many of them yearn for it to return to being called "Duwamps" and covered in swamps, skid rows, horse-and-buggy transportation, and four-storey buildings spaced one thousand feet apartment from each other. You should have read a recent article about the new streetcar in the local paper--almost all the bloggers criticised the concept, even though it's incredibly cheap, quick/easy-to-build, and permanent/anchoring. They probably wanted that section to be built into another freeway--or a horse-and-buggy thoroughfare surrounded by swamps or lumber yards. Even the city council bemoans the amount of parking spaces that would be lost for streetcar stop platforms. (Oh boo-hoo. My suburban mum can't park her tank there any longer because thirty people are using that space to board a streetcar.) :gaah:

Oh well...at least 1 Hotel will have that seafood resturant going in as well as Dean and Deluca. If theres one good thing about the gym its that its Equinox. Cool to see some serious manhattanization.

A big gymnasium? Most people won't be able to use it--just members. It should have been a department store. More people would have a reason to go to a department store. Far more people will just be passing by on their way to some other place, watching from the sidewalk the few who can use the gym work out on the treadmill on arguably the busiest shopping street in the city. (???) And Columbia Sportswear? I don't expect an elegant or haute couture clothier to open at the bottom of the Macy's garage, but another sportswear shop? Geez, when will Seattle ever get fashion sense? It's the last place in the world to have any, and then the provincial old-timers scream in pain when an out-of-town shop like H&M opens up. Oh well. Hopefully the gym will go out of business, they'll renovate the space, and open up a more practical department-style store there that is more relevant to more people. An electronics store would be nice, so that people could actually buy . . . *drumroll* . . . a television set, phone, or computer downtown. *GASP!* The novelty of it!

You'd be shocked how much pedestrian traffic a major gym can have. Hundreds or even thousands of visitors per day, seven days a week, from early morning to late evening at least.

As for Columbia Sportswear, there's nothing wrong with a store that lots of people like. Some of us aren't metros and never will be.

My understanding is there is only one block left in downtown Seattle that could get to the height you are talking about, and there aren't any plans for a supertall.

Another thing that's been happening lately, is smaller buildings seem to have an easier time with financing, and an easier time with leasing.

And there are no plans to create a secondary downtown - sort of like Midtown in NYC? What you say - sounds like a dead end to me. Not a very happy picture :ohno:

dead end? just because there are no current plans for a supertall in seattle's central business district? i'm a little confused.

they're considering raising height limits in the south lake union area to build highrises not super talls and will probably not have any land left to build by the time they're done raising heights. they're also talking about allowing highrises in the area south of downtown interbay and northgate. you don't have to build that tall to achieve density look at cities like cairo egypt 70,000 people per square mile

You'd be shocked how much pedestrian traffic a major gym can have. Hundreds or even thousands of visitors per day, seven days a week, from early morning to late evening at least.

As for Columbia Sportswear, there's nothing wrong with a store that lots of people like. Some of us aren't metros and never will be.

As for the gym, oh well. I was just down at 3rd and Pine tonight. As I looked over at the garage I thought, what cool store could go there.
My thought was not Columbia Sportswear. Yet another fleece, hike and trail store. You don't have to be metro to have some sort of style. Some of us don't wear hiking shoes, fleece or gortex and carry backpacks. I know its the nw but come on Seattle get some style.:lol:

Is it just me or does the 1 Hotel project seem a be shaky? It was announced around the same time O8, 1521, and Escala were. All those projects are well underway, and this thing has been sputtering for a while now.

Is it just me or does the 1 Hotel project seem a be shaky? It was announced around the same time O8, 1521, and Escala were. All those projects are well underway, and this thing has been sputtering for a while now.

:lol: ^^ that thing has been sputtering 6 or 7 years now

Oh god, here we go again:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/347343_concrete15.html

Anyone happen to know what will and what won't be affected by a potential strike?

Columbia is a little weak.......therer has been a Columbia store in downtown PDX for decades and it actually is pretty cool. It reminds me of an REI for obvious reasons. I would be a lot happier if the north face relocated to that location. The north face needs to be a little closer to Westlake anyways. I love TNF store on first but it is a little far off the retail path. I too agree that Seattle could step it up a little bit on style. Style makes for a urban and vibrant environment. To make my point, just look to Vancouver BC. They have done a very good job up there.....it going to be too bad if Kenneth Cole moves out of Seattle...

one last random thought...I think Joeys would have been dynamite if they took the Tap House Grill loaction on 5th avenue.....I think it would have done very well even with their existing SLU location.....

Oh god, here we go again:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/347343_concrete15.html

Anyone happen to know what will and what won't be affected by a potential strike?

Not good!

one last random thought...I think Joeys would have been dynamite if they took the Tap House Grill loaction on 5th avenue.....I think it would have done very well even with their existing SLU location.....

Tap House is on 6th.

And yeah thats true.

Also, Im glad American Apparel moved in down there. H&M and AA will feed off each other.

Not good!

Aww.........Fuck...............lol.

Aww.........Fuck...............lol.

Yeah, that's just like my job... contract and full time employees do the same work and are treated very differently.

Yeah, that's just like my job... contract and full time employees do the same work and are treated very differently.


MS :banana:

ahhhh theyre putting in a Taco Gringos on Olive across from Clever Dunnes pub. Late night mexican food here I come!

That is what I'm talking about! Good work on that. Are you a retail broker?

That is what I'm talking about! Good work on that. Are you a retail broker?

haha nope. I just have a lot of friends who know things!

dead end? just because there are no current plans for a supertall in seattle's central business district? i'm a little confused.

Well it was said to me that the area where all the skyscrapers are built - there is no more space. So assuming that no other space will be found - it means no more skyscrapers. What is confusing about that?

Well it was said to me that the area where all the skyscrapers are built - there is no more space. So assuming that no other space will be found - it means no more skyscrapers. What is confusing about that?

Theres no room for supertalls but theres plenty of room for narrow tall buildings.

If they open up the Denny Triangle to higher heights, there's your opportunity. It wouldn't be unheard of.

From WestSeattleBlog:

http://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=5197

That rendering by CB Anderson Architects is the first look at what the proposed “boutique hotel” south of Salty’s on Alki might look like, along with potential improvements for the main restaurant, such as a new glassed-in deck. Thanks to Derek for first spotting it in the Daily Journal of Commerce (whose articles are only available online to subscribers) and thanks to Eileen Mintz from Salty’s for subsequently tracking down a copy for us to share with you. As Richard Anderson of CB Anderson told the DJC, the project is still in “dream” stage, and this is a very preliminary look at what it could resemble — no formal applications have been filed with the city. One more Salty’s note: The “Under the Alki Moon” wine dinner last night introduced the new cookbook “Good Ciao!”, on which Salty’s co-owner Kathryn Hilger Kingen collaborated with Italian chef Roberto Russo and Salty’s chefs.

Yea, I heard about that. It's only going to be 3 or 4 stories, but it will add flavor to the Alki Beach Scene which has been lacking something new for a very long time.

Yea, I heard about that. It's only going to be 3 or 4 stories, but it will add flavor to the Alki Beach Scene which has been lacking something new for a very long time.

However, Salty's is at least a mile away from the Alki 'scene' as it were. This hotel will offer spectacular views, but other than that, not a lot of neighborhood amenities will be on tap for the guests.

Well it was said to me that the area where all the skyscrapers are built - there is no more space. So assuming that no other space will be found - it means no more skyscrapers. What is confusing about that?

There is room. The main issue is height restrictions I believe.

Theres no room for supertalls but theres plenty of room for narrow tall buildings.

I thought we still had a 1000ft FAA regulation, too, on account of being near Boeing Field?

MS :banana:

I have been dash-trash many times:lol:

No super talls yes, I don't know why they won't let the CDB taller than 500 though.

That's not very tall.

Let the Denny triangle up to 750, and have the developers pay for everything about 300 and keep the money and build light rail with it.

The core CBD can build offices of any height as long as they have enough land or a skinny-enough building to keep the floor area ratio (FAR) below a certain level. Even then, I believe that residential use isn't subject to FAR restrictions in that zone.

The Denny Triangle and Retail District have some 500' zones.

I'd love to see some very tall towers in the Triangle or CBD.

I believe this one is new. 240 foot residential tower for First Hill at Terry & Jefferson.

http://web1.seattle.gov/dpd/luib/Notice.aspx?BID=279&NID=7293

You'd be shocked how much pedestrian traffic a major gym can have. Hundreds or even thousands of visitors per day, seven days a week, from early morning to late evening at least.

As for Columbia Sportswear, there's nothing wrong with a store that lots of people like. Some of us aren't metros and never will be.

Oh, I'm not a "metro", either. Nor am I saying everyone should share my taste. I'm simply saying that many people do, and that they would like something different. I'm also saying that there are plenty of other places in Seattle like that. It's not exactly a uniform retail scene, but it is a bit "rustic", perhaps.

Columbia is a little weak.......therer has been a Columbia store in downtown PDX for decades and it actually is pretty cool. It reminds me of an REI for obvious reasons. I would be a lot happier if the north face relocated to that location. The north face needs to be a little closer to Westlake anyways. I love TNF store on first but it is a little far off the retail path. I too agree that Seattle could step it up a little bit on style. Style makes for a urban and vibrant environment. To make my point, just look to Vancouver BC. They have done a very good job up there.....it going to be too bad if Kenneth Cole moves out of Seattle...

Well, I go to school in Vancouver. It's really not better. Most of the shops on Robson are, like, middle-scale-flimsy-blouses-teenage-girl boutiques and a lot of souvenir shops, and the Burrard & Hastings area is very comparable to the "Upper Fifth" area which Rainier Square calls itself, while Yaletown or South Granville is very much like Belltown. They're quite small areas. Also, I have never seen more outdoor recreation shops than I have along East Broadway, or "Campertown", which definitely counterbalances any style or glamour in the city's retail scene. There's simply a different selection of shops. There's a Holt Renfrew there, a Barney's here. I don't see much difference wherever I am. To me, both these places are more like shoe or clothing museums than actually shops. We tend to get envious when other people have what we don't, but that doesn't mean they have more things of the same quality.

I still say an electronics store would have been a far more practical tenant than an outdoor clothing and goods store. The area needs a place for people to buy phones, television sets, and computers. It'd add diversity.

Electronics is the big missing piece in Downtown Seattle. I bought my computer at Office Depot. My other choice was Radio Shack. Stereos are even worse, as Office Depot doesn't carry them.

Electronics is the big missing piece in Downtown Seattle. I bought my computer at Office Depot. My other choice was Radio Shack. Stereos are even worse, as Office Depot doesn't carry them.

Hop on the bus and go south 2 miles and hit Costco.

I believe this one is new. 240 foot residential tower for First Hill at Terry & Jefferson.

http://web1.seattle.gov/dpd/luib/Notice.aspx?BID=279&NID=7293

Yay!! More density for First Hill!!!! :banana:

people still buy electronics at a brick and mortar?

Hop on the bus and go south 2 miles and hit Costco.

That has surface parking, which offsets the fact that they're local. Once I did go to Northgate North though. It's 1/8 the typical land area for that much retail, and nice general contractor too.

people still buy electronics at a brick and mortar?

If a Downtown had a big electronics store I'd religiously spend all of my electronics money there out of loyalty, and also because I don't have patience. Otherwise I'm happy to shop at Amazon.

Yes, I do like to "vote with my money".

Because this is totally relavant to Seattle development:

It seems that every hot girl in Seattle is out today. I wonder why that is? Im seriously going out tonight if this keeps up. Its like watching one of those plants that blooms once every 50 years.