A forth road bridge replacement has won backing from the transport minister and the first minister. I felt that this deserves it's own thread as it will obviously be a huge project.

Bridge replacement wins backing

A new road crossing over the Firth of Forth has been backed by the first minister and the transport minister.

Although the final report into the state of the bridge is due next summer, Transport Minister Tavish Scott has been briefed on preliminary findings.

The study was ordered amid continuing concern about the level of corrosion in cables on the current bridge.

A Scottish Executive spokesman said: "These findings indicated a replacement crossing is required."

The spokesman added: "The first minister has therefore asked for a report to be brought to cabinet.

"This report will cover the new information on options for a replacement crossing, an up-to-date technical assessment on the existing Forth Road Bridge and the further work on financing a replacement crossing."

Reduce congestion

Green MSP Mark Ballard condemned the executive's backing for the crossing.

"The executive has shown astonishing recklessness," he said.

"Having previously said it would wait until all the research it commissioned had been completed, ministers now appear to have jumped the gun and given the go-ahead for a second bridge.

"Waiting for the final results of the studies would have allowed for informed debate and a decision based on facts, not electioneering."

A Friends of the Earth spokesman said: "If the executive has to replace the bridge then we find that acceptable.

"However, if it results in increased road capacity then it is unacceptable and will undermine all the executive's commitment to stabilising road traffic levels and reducing emissions."

Bruce Crawford, mid-Scotland and Fife SNP MSP, said: "Construction must be ready to start so we can remove any risk of a period of closure, with the devastating effect that would have on the economy of Scotland and in particular the economy of the east coast and north of our country.

"The Forth Road Bridge is an essential artery for transport throughout east and central Scotland.

"Closing or restricting this route would impact on each and every alternative North-South route and create substantial difficulties, not only for businesses based on either side of the Forth but many major businesses in Scotland. That is unacceptable.

"This is the right decision for Fife and for all of Scotland."

Tunnel option

Louise Batchelor, BBC Scotland's transport correspondent, said the new crossing might not be a bridge and may also be used by trams.

She said: "The Scottish Executive hasn't got down to the detailed plans. There still could be a tunnel, for example, so for the time being it is a crossing, which also may or may not be just for cars."

In November last year a full independent assessment of the state of cables on the Forth Road Bridge was commissioned after initial inspections by the Forth Estuary Transport Authority (Feta) found some corroded cables on the bridge.

It said that unless action was taken the 42-year-old bridge could close to heavy goods vehicles by 2013.

Campaigners have said a new road crossing would help reduce congestion and stimulate the local economy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/6190041.stm

They wont build no tunnel.

Yep, no way they'll build a tunnel - waaaaaaaaay too expensive.

I'll be sad to see the old blighter be replaced if they deem it beyond repair next year (quite likely by the look of the bracing they've bolted onto the South tower...). A replacement is drastically needed, though. The bridge takes a daily pummeling 20x that of what it was designed for, and with just 4 lanes, it simply cannot hold enough traffic.


These are a few news paper clippings that I saved from http://www.forthbridges.org.uk/ showing the planned new bridge. They are 2 years old now, though, so it probably won't look like this anymore...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/forth_road_bridge_new.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/enews_new_forth_road_bridge.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/scotsman_new_forth_road_bridge.jpg


The new bridge is 300m shorter (huge main span - 6th longest in the world), but is much taller at 185m. It'll cost an absolute FORTUNE to build though...



I like the present one, but can you imagine the sight of THREE of the UK's largest bridges standing side by side?! It'll look unbelievable!



A couple of shots what I took of the current bridge, and a few taken by other people that I found lying around my photobucket account. At home for Xmas so I don't have my PC to upload any other decent ones, so these will have to do :)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/SSCbridge.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/P3060051.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/39809184.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/40326863.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/pic29_lrg.jpg

whoa! that final one is a total belter. I'm crapping myself just thinking about it.

It may cost a fortune to build a new one but this is one bit of East Coast investment that I'd be happy to vote for. Three enormo-bridges side by side is going to be fantastic. I like the elegant sweep of the suspension bridges juxtaposed with the victorian glory of the rail bridge.

Although I would normally be against such large investments in roads, if the existing bridge is really suffering such large problems, then there really can't be any debate about whether it should be replaced. It would be economically disastrous for Edinburgh, Fife, Dundee and most of the north of Scotland if it was to close - it is part of one of the main arterial routes north.

Apparently most of the parties are going to go into the next election with a pledge to remove tolls from the bridge in a desperate attempt to win votes in Fife. This, however, is pretty unpardonable and short termist folly.

Although I can't quite work out why, apparently a tunnel might well be cheaper.

I hope they don't build a tunnel. It just wouldn't be the same as a bridge.
Money is everything (as it would be cheaper) and it is nice to have three beautiful structures next to each other - even if it will cost the equivelant of a few baby incubators and a well in Africa.

Not to build a bridge would be a drastic mistake.

Looks like it is between a tunnel and a bridge now (what others options were there?). I could see it being a tunnel as it supposedly lasts longer and costs less.

I would prefer a bridge, though. Something nice to look at.
Would people rather have the Forth Rail Tunnel because it costs less to run? I could see half the people of today saying yes. :(

Other options were: road-rail crossing, a tidal barrage, swing bridge, ferry, Leith-Burntisland bridge, and adding extra lanes to the Forth Road Bridge.

Some of those can't have been particularly hard to rule out!

More investment in the east, while Glasgow suffers as the M74 saga rolls on and on and.........

Yep, new Forth bridge is VITAL to the nation while the M74 extension ( which will carry at least twice as much traffic as a new Forth bridge ) is a sorepoint. Of course there needs to be a Forth crossing between Fife and Edinburgh though. I've always though it would be pretty cool to close the inner ring road using a nifty looking suspension bridge - say from Townhead connecting with the new M74 level with the Dixons Blazes industrial estate.

Can anybody clarify if they plan to keep the existing bridge open whenever the new crossing opens? From what I've read in the papers this week it sounds like the current bridge is pretty much gubbed and that corrosion is so bad they will have to close it to HGV's by 2013. Does that mean at some unspecified date in the future it will be unfit to carry any traffic or will the reduced traffic once crossing no.2 is open prolong its life?

Second point. How well has the Forth Road Bridge endured in comparison with other suspension bridges? I appreciate these things can't go on indefinitely but a 50-55 year useful lifespan is a bit pish, is it not? How old is the Golden Gate? Verrazano Narrows in NY? I thought they were both older. Does it mean that the Humber Bridge will be badgered in 20 years time?

speaking to someone who is relatively close to this at Transport Scotland I think this is more likely to be a tunnel rather than a bridge. Going to cost a fortune either way.

To be quite honest, I think a tunnel is a terrible idea - there is so much more that can go wrong with tunnels, and I'll eat my hat if it turns out to be cheaper than building a bridge.


The BBC said the other night that £1 billion was going to be needed for the crossing - does this sound about right, or did I mishear what that money was for.


In regards to importance, the Forth Road Bridge is much, much more important than the M74 extension - the M74 isn't complete just now and the city gets by.

If we don't get a new crossing before the existing Forth Road Bridge packs it in, half of the country is totally fucked.

The two aren't even comparable at all.

3Bn, wow!! ...and to be completed by 2013.

Herald (http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/transport/display.var.1193543.0.0.php)

New Forth crossing could cost £3bn

A new Forth crossing could cost up to £3bn, it emerged yesterday, after ministers gave approval in principle to a project which supporting documents say is likely to be tolled and privately financed.

The cheapest option, a bridge alongside the current road crossing, would cost at least £1bn at current prices, while a tunnel under one of the longer corridors would cost three times that

Holy shit! £3bn! Is there nothing they can do to fix the existing bridge for under £3bn! So thats all the transport spending in Scotland swallowed up for the next twenty years?

I was trying hard to understand the people that were syaing the tunnel might cost less than the bridge, but just couldn't see it myself. These numbers confirm my suspicions.

Tunnelling will almost always cost more than bridging. I think this essentially boils down to the fact that, metre for metre, steel is cheaper than tunnelling.

Obivously, it's vastly more complicated than that, but you know... trying to understand things in simple terms (the only way I get by in life!) is sometimes useful.

Second point. How well has the Forth Road Bridge endured in comparison with other suspension bridges? I appreciate these things can't go on indefinitely but a 50-55 year useful lifespan is a bit pish, is it not? How old is the Golden Gate? Verrazano Narrows in NY? I thought they were both older. Does it mean that the Humber Bridge will be badgered in 20 years time?

Golden Gate is being completely rebuilt at the moment, so that eventually, not a single piece of steel on it will be original. This is to protect it from earthquakes though (no idea if it has suffered major corrosion). Don't know the costs off the top of my head, but it apparently much more expensive than a new build, but it is such an iconic structure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/6499617.stm

I would say they are talking bollocks by saying that it will cost half as much as a bridge and that it will only cost £3.25million to maintain over 20 years. Utter shite! Build a bridge I say, build it, NOW!!!:crazy2:

http://www.dunfermlinepress.com/news/story.php?story_id=272

^ More results from a study into a new forth crossing.

My money is still on a big bridge.

Rubbish.

I refuse to believe that a tunnel is cheaper to build. And there is NO WAY that 1.5+ miles of sea-bed tunneling would only cost £3.25million to maintain for 20 years. Christ, it's costing more than that to maintain the Clyde Tunnel, not to mention a mamoth (and hugely tidal) sea crossing.

Simply put, these figures sound crazy.

Until concrete evidence is put right in front of me, I still say that a bridge is the only viable option.

Correct me if I am wrong but they report seems to propose placing a tubular tunnel on top of the sea bed, not actually tunneling under the Forth. I can only assume this is why the costs claimed are far lower than we would expect. Still think it's fantasy though.

Yes that is what they say, but the costs are still pie in the sky.

Anyway heres the proposed routes:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q95/The_Talking_orange/map2.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q95/The_Talking_orange/map1.png

Hope they go for route 8B(the one on the far right):|

Isn't Route 1B the Upper Forth Crossing, ie, the Kincardine Bridge diversion that is already under construction?

Correct me if I am wrong but they report seems to propose placing a tubular tunnel on top of the sea bed, not actually tunneling under the Forth. I can only assume this is why the costs claimed are far lower than we would expect. Still think it's fantasy though.
Sorry yes I wrote that wrong area - by sea bed tunneling I meant placing tunnels on the sea bed itself, not going underneath it. That was my fault, sorry!


There are still so many high cost factors to consider with placing a tunnel on the bed though - one of the biggest factors will be that the foundations used to secure the tunnel to the sea bed will need to be extremely deep and strong to resist the tidal movement sucking the surface from underneath the tunnel and creating large cavities in the bed: think standing in sand and then watching as a wave washes over you, and then drags back into the sea pulling the sand from underneath your feet.

Suspension Bridges have to deal with the problem too, but there are only 2 main supports to worry about. With a tunnel there will either be loads of supports all along the bed, or the entire tunnel itself will sit on the surface, causing an almighty problem without seriously heavy duty foundations.

A tunnel would also bring in money from tourism. The Queensferry's probably relie a lot on tourists visiting the bridges. What good would a tunnel be for bringing in money for the area?

Do people really turn up to look at the Road Bridge? Unless a new bridge is a Calatrava or something then I doubt it will bring tourists in to look at it. And in any case, it's probably not that appropriate to try to compete with the original Forth Bridge for iconic status.

OOOO A Calatrava, that would be good!

3 giant bridges from 3 different centuries on the same stretch of water would be quite epic.

It would look feckin' Amazing. Hopefully they go for the new bridge instead of the Tunnel.

Detailed (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/defaultpage1221cde0.aspx?pageID=304) PDF Documents of the Forth Road Bridge proposals

Transport Scotland (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/defaultpage1221cde0.aspx?pageID=253)


Strategic Transport Projects Review and Forth Replacement Crossing
Transport Scotland is undertaking the Strategic Transport Projects Review (STPR); a major study to help shape Scotland’s transport network from 2012 until 2022.

As part of this we are carrying out initial planning into a replacement crossing of the Firth of Forth. Ministers have committed to a replacement crossing but are waiting for further reports to be completed before they make a decision on its type and location.

The Strategic Transport Projects Review (STPR

Good grief EB1 is a bit of a monster. Can you imagine breaking down halfway across at 1am on a freezing, storm lashed December night and having to get out of your car due to an engine fire?

Is EB1 in meters or feet? 1850 meters would make it the second longest suspension bridge in the world... might as well make it a little longer in that case...

might as well make it a little longer in that case...

How much longer kentigern? pmsl :laugh:

lol - 141.1 meters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashi-Kaikyo_Bridge

Just for the tourists, you know...

Report 4 (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/defaultpage1221cde0.aspx?pageID=704)


Sunday Herald (http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.1708372.0.transport_chiefs_may_demolish_forth_crossing.php)

Transport chiefs may demolish Forth crossing

THE SCOTTISH government's transport agency is considering demolishing the Forth Road Bridge - at a cost of nearly £130 million. A report by Transport Scotland, released under freedom of information law, reveals that consultants have been asked to estimate the cost of dismantling the entire 43-year-old structure.

The study was part of extensive investigations earlier this year into a Forth replacement crossing, which is being backed by the Scottish government. Consultations are now under way on whether to build a new bridge or dig a tunnel because of fears over the corrosion of the existing bridge's cables.

In a report produced in June, experts from Jacobs and Faber Maunsell calculated that the total cost of demolishing the deck, the cables, the towers and the approach viaducts of the current bridge would be likely to come to £128.57m.

Och Damn, thats a real bummer!:no: Hopefully they'll not go ahead with it.

If they don't want to use it any more, why not turn it into a walkers/cycle bridge. Might as well save the money and keep it up.

No news expected on this until "autumn" according to a press release from September 2007, so while we wait for the shit storm, here's some better images and a pdf of the exhibition panels they displayed >click< (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/uploads%5Cdocuments%5CFRC_exhibition_panels.pdf)
Cable stayed
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/uploads/FRC/artists_cable_stayed_bridge.jpg

Suspension
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/uploads/FRC/artists_suspension_bridge.jpg

Tunnel options
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/uploads/FRC/MAP_tunnel_in_corridor_CD.jpg

Herald (http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.1914213.0.Swinney_to_reveal_plan_for_new_Forth_crossing.php)

Swinney to reveal plan for new Forth crossing

A new Forth crossing is to get the go-ahead at Holyrood this afternoon, as John Swinney announces plans for the vast construction project and sets out his plans to pay the billions of pounds it will cost.

The Finance and Sustainable Growth Secretary is to tell MSPs the decision reached last night by the Scottish Cabinet. It is thought a strong likelihood that he will announce a bridge will be built to the west of the current Forth Road bridge, rather than a tunnel under the firth.

The higher cost and uncertainty of boring a tunnel or immersing a tube under the river makes the options of a bridge more attractive to ministers. According to Transport Scotland's estimates, the options for a tunnel would take at least five-and-a-half years to construct and would cost between £2.1bn and £2.3bn.

Bridge options could take less time, with a cable-stay bridge costed at £1.5bn and a suspension bridge, similar in design to the current road crossing at Queensferry at £1.7bn.

Those were the costs when design options were presented in a public exhibition in the Lothians and Fife during August and September. But the full cost, with road links and at the 2016 prices when the crossing is scheduled for completion, looks far bigger: £2.5bn to £3.5bn for a bridge, or £3.6bn to £4.7bn for a tunnel.

That raises awkward questions for Mr Swinney about how the costs should be met. If it is to be paid fully by the Scottish Government, the money will have to be found during the years the crossing is under construction, dwarfing the current transport budget. Other options include borrowing against the projection of future tolls or the use of private finance, but the Scottish government has been against the use of both.

The current road crossing was opened in 1964 and is suffering from corrosion. Unless the suspension cable can be repaired, engineers estimate it will have to be closed to heavy vehicles by 2013 and to all vehicles five years later.

From BBC News:

New bridge to be built over Forth

The current Forth crossing is deteriorating
A new bridge is to be built across the Firth of Forth, just west of the existing suspension road crossing.
The cable stayed-style bridge is due to open in about 2016 and will cost between £3.2bn and 4.2bn.

Finance Secretary John Swinney told parliament that concerns over the future viability of the existing bridge meant the government had to act now.

Ruling out a tunnel, he said the chosen option would deliver the crossing in the quickest possible timescale.

Mr Swinney told MSPs that the new bridge would be the "largest construction project in a generation in Scotland".

Rail system

He went on: "It will be an iconic structure. It will maintain a fundamental link across the River Forth. It will create a new and better connection to our transport infrastructure in west and east central Scotland.

"And it will be delivered through effective and comprehensive care for our natural environment".

A cable-stayed bridge is one that consists of columns with cables supporting the bridge deck.

Mr Swinney said the effects of traffic and weather had taken their toll on the existing road crossing.

He quoted concerns from the bridge authority that it may have to close to all vehicles by 2019.

The new bridge, which will run to a point west of South Queensferry, will consist of a two-lane carriageway with hard shoulders and pedestrian and cycle access.

It will also allow for the introduction of a light rail or guided bus system.

The five-and-a-half year construction project is expected to get under way in 2011, with a competition to find a constructor due to be launched the year before.

Mr Swinney said: "A cable stay bridge has lower overall risk and can be used by all types of traffic, including freight, pedestrians and cyclists and is considerably cheaper to deliver.

"We are supporting commuters, supporting business and protecting the environment. This crossing will ensure that we continue to provide an effective transport network and achieve that goal."

Cable stayed
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/uploads/FRC/artists_cable_stayed_bridge.jpg


^^ the future...and I like it. Nice they've gone for yet another variety of bridge, 2 suspension bridges next to each other would have been a bit dull, and hurray it's not a tunnel, something aesthetic at least!

Is this the design then? Is this what will actually be built?

EDIT: THIS SECOND POST TOOK THE THREAD OVER THE PAGE, SO GO TO THE BOTTOM OF 2 FOR THE FULL BBC ARTICLE...

The BBC picture:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44311000/jpg/_44311487_bridge203.jpg

Don't know which I like better as this looks a bit plain but the above is rather chunky.
I hope all three biridges are left standing, though. It would be magnificant.

From BBC News:
"The new bridge, which will run to a point west of South Queensferry, will consist of a two-lane carriageway with hard shoulders and pedestrian and cycle access."
Woah there! WOOOOOAAAAAHHHHHHHH.

A two lane carriageway?!?!?!? *Grimace*

I hope they mean: a carriageway with two lanes going in each direction! Because if they plan to build a bridge with only one lane of traffic in each direction, I may actually explode in disbelief.



----


The cable stayed option looks great btw, and what an unbelievable set piece that will make with three bridges all in a row!

I doubt any of the images represent an actual design if they're still debating the form of crossing it should be. The images are probably just to help people picture what it could be like.

And, OT, but I think my favourite bridge in Scotland isn't any of the above, but the Kylesku Bridge in Sutherland, designed by Arup in the '80s. Isn't she a beauty?

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/kylesku/kylesku/images/bridgesnow-450.jpg

What's all this fuss over a new bridge then? Is it really a priority? There's a new bridge over at Kincardine, greedy bastards, learn to swim! I can think of numerous more important schemes, Glasgow Crossrail, Glasgow tram network, various new Clyde crossings, Edinburgh Airport closure, relocation of the Scottish parliament to Glasgow, the bird shit needs scraping off the St Enoch Centre, theres a bulb away on one of the street lights on Great Western Road, tons of stuff.

Hey come on now. Although I struggle to understand how it can possibly be costing £4.2 billion (in itself a bargain when you consider it's only 7% of the current cost of bailing out Northern Rock...), the Forth Road bridge is a part of a pretty major arterial route north.

I'm with Boards here, £4bn plus for another bridge for you east coasters, after getting the tram project through you guys are taking the piss!!!

What about completing the M74 for £500m or Crossrail for 10p (or anything up to £250m depending what day of the week it is). Even SPT are having to pull every trick in the book on the off chance we might get to re-use some Victorian tunnels in the east end of Glasgow for the Commonwealth Games!

Still, the three bridges together could make one hell of a vista.:)

I'm with Boards here, £4bn plus for another bridge for you east coasters, after getting the tram project through you guys are taking the piss!!!


Well yes Edinburgh is constructing a tram system, but it's not as if it wasn't scaled back, and it's not as if Edinburgh already has any integrated public transport system already like your lovely little subway! The Bridge is pretty damn essential, not only for Edinburgh (which people seem to have a great aversion too.....lol) but generally for travelling through the east of scotland. I'd be pretty pissed off if I lived in Fife and wanted to go to, let's say, North Berwick for a day trip and had to go all the way Kincardine...

And as you say, it's going to look fab!

£4 billion is a suprising amount though, but it has to be quality as hell

I looked on wikipedia and the existing bridge cost £19.5 million (including road building) back in the 50's/60's :lol:

I looked on wikipedia and the existing bridge cost £19.5 million (including road building) back in the 50's/60's :lol:
:lol: class

About our wee subway, and not that I'm trying to shit-stir or anything, but that was built and operated by a private company right up till the 1920s... maybe RBoS could pay for the Burghers new bridge? :lol:

edit: actually, thinking on it, you kinda have a point Boards. How many times has the Kingston bridge had to be patched up now and whats its life expectancy? How many vehicles does it carry every day? How much of the M8 could £4billion put underground and give us some of our city back?

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i298/momus16/2bridges.jpg

:lol: Quebec?

Spooky Momus...

Take it that's somewhere in the states...

Yes, its Quebec....

They are the Quebec Bridge (equivalent to the rail bridge) and the Pierre-Laporte bridge, equal to our road bridge.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i298/momus16/2bridges.jpg
And to think that God-awful looking piece of shit to the left holds the record for longest cantilever bridge in the world.

It should be ours, the bas.

-----

Arf! I can't believe there are complaints about this! The reason the original Road Bridge cost £19.5million also happens to be the reason it's about to fall down.

Basically, don't want to become a boring sod here, but bridge engineering has changed - the dangers of Suspension Bridges and their natural frequencies were not really known in the 1950s, and so averting potential crisis now costs a whole lot more money. The Forth Road Bridge should have actually fallen down on several occasions already due to wind speed and frequencies, and so they don't want those sort of minor risks taking place with the next one.

Also, and more importantly, I still have no idea why it's costing £4billion :)

Indeed you can find out more here:

http://www.cqsb.qc.ca/ss/dc019.htm

Quote:

'The Quebec Bridge was finally opened on 22 August 1919 by the Prince of Wales Edward VIII. It is the longest cantilever bridge in the world.'

Which is correct but lets face it the Forth River crossings are a far more picturesque composition.

Ach I don't begrudge it, not at all in fact! I just want £4billion the west-saide as well :guns1:

Hold on a second here!

With some further Geek-filled research, I've found out what I've been thinking for a while now to be true: That bridge in Quebec isn't the LONGEST cantilever bridge in the world, it's merely got the longest SPAN!

It's not even a kilometre long!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Bridge

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/alain.perron/pont_quebec.jpg

We win!

I don't know what that means but you're forcing me to believe it!

Yep. Where the Forth Rail Bridge is elegant and graceful the Quebec one is clunky and abrupt. Look at how the trusses just terminate on the Quebec one whereas the transition on the Forth Bridge is beautifully handled by the stone archway of the more classically proportioned viaduct. No competition in the looks department and its less that half the length...:bash::banana::lol:

I don't know what that means but you're forcing me to believe it!
Good enough for me!

So behold:

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/alain.perron/pont_quebec.jpg


Vs.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Forth_rail_bridge_head-on-panorama_josh-von-staudach.jpg

:lol: ya durrty bitch Gweilo, at Christmas as well :nono:

Is it just me or does the cantilever bridge look somehow... upside down?

:lol:

------

Upside down?

see, much better now! :lol:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/cristy_bunt/Misc/pont_quebec2.jpg

:rofl:

And, OT, but I think my favourite bridge in Scotland isn't any of the above, but the Kylesku Bridge in Sutherland, designed by Arup in the '80s. Isn't she a beauty?

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/kylesku/kylesku/images/bridgesnow-450.jpg

Yuppety yup, that's my favourite too! What a beauty indeed!:D

:lol: class

About our wee subway, and not that I'm trying to shit-stir or anything, but that was built and operated by a private company right up till the 1920s... maybe RBoS could pay for the Burghers new bridge? :lol:
?

This makes me sound like a bit of a right winger when I'm really a big lefty, but RBS pay more in corporation tax every year to the UK government than the Scottish Government's entire budget. So in a way, you could say that they are paying for it... several times over.

erm... that was a joke Macc :shifty: lighten up shweerie :lol:

Yes, I knew you weren't being entirely serious, don't worry. I just thought I'd make the point anyway.

Yeah no worries! :D You do realise it was a rather moot point to make though as its hardly a direct comparison to a company undertaking and funding the entire project themselves (construction, operation and maintenance) and then pays tax on the revenues they generate from it? ;)

Have they decided for sure that the current bridge cannot be saved?
This news is very important in our neck of the woods because corrosion has been found in the cables of the severn bridge, which is of a very similar design to the Forth road bridge. The cables were said to be worse than expected, which were checked after corrosion was found in the FRB, even though it was completed two years after. The Severn bridge might be doomed, which would be a shame as it is much more aesthetically pleasing than the second Severn crossing. I suppose it would speed up the construction of a severn barrage should it be given the green light though.

Not looked at this thread in ages because it deals with an east-cost issue. fnaar.

Must set the record straight on one thing... Quebec is in Canada, not "somewhere in the states". :P

It's costing £4 billion because someone's got to pay my wages! Taken from today's edition of the highly esteemed weekly, Arup News:

"Naeem Hussain, Hong Kong, writes: "I am pleased to announce that the joint venture of Arup and Jacobs UK Ltd is to be awarded the major consultancy commission for delivery of the Forth Replacement Crossing - the New Forth Bridge. At an estimated £4.22billion, it has been described by the Scottish Government as Scotland's biggest construction project in a generation. It will be the first major new long-span bridge in the UK for around a decade. The commission is a major piece of work for the firm, involving provision of all the consultancy services needed to take this iconic project from where it is at present (conclusion of option appraisals) through to delivery of the completed bridge in 2016. It builds on our earlier work in this field, and reinforces our position as one of the world's leading long-span bridge designers. In addition, it is hoped that the project will raise the profile of transport expertise in Scotland."

Is it gold-plated? That's a f*cking disgrace. Shame they aren't so willing to sort out the bottleneck at the Kingston Bridge which carries four times as much traffic as the Fourth Road Bridge or give us a tram network or meaningful subway expansion. Makes me sick.

I don't begrudge money going on transport anywhere it is needed, but what are the cost/benefit studies saying? Can a £4.2Bn bridge really be better value for money than whatever projects could otherwise be completed?

The price is a disgrace but it is needed. Surely it can't be costing this much, though. Must be a misprint. lol

There are many ins and outs that have been investigated By JE Jacobs/ Faber Maunsell/Aecom, and have all different study documents on the Transport Scotland (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/defaultpage1221cde0.aspx?pageID=704) Website.

To put the £4.2billion cost into perspective:


Heathrow T5: £4 billion
Hong Kong 1596m Stonecutters Bridge: ~£1.4 billion
London 2012 Olympics: £9 billion
Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games: £288 million


So, to join the chorus, where the heck has £4 billion come from?! Steel price increases? Labour cost increases? Covering-our-arses-when-it-overruns increases?

It does strike me as too much for one bridge and some infrastructure.

But it's importance isn't even up for debate. There are no cost/benefit studies here. Without the bridge, half of the country falls to pieces. It's not an optional piece of infrastructure we're dealing with here, like the M74, subway or crossrail extensions.



I'd love to see exactly how they're spending this money - do think you could dig up any info on this Chief?

£4BILLION WOW!!!!!!! You ced get 10 Scottish Parliament Buildings for that.

Nevertheless a new road bridge is an out and out neccessity as the present one will be kaput sooner or later.

By the way a Forth road crossing is a Central Scotland issue not an east coast issue just as is the M74 completion matters to the wider area.

does anybody know if it is going to be a mixed mode bridge? It would seem sensible to provide some provision for rail on it. I've seen a few continental proposals that have a railway down the middle or on a lower deck.

As for the cost it does sound a lot but from what I have heard the bridge itself will only be about £1.5bn and that its all the connecting infrastructure that pushes up the cost.

I was just wonderng that myself. I presume they have had the commonsense to make this at least D3 to cater for future traffic growth?

TBD - doubt I could dig much up on this - Arup is a huge firm and I'm in a completely different part of the company to the bridges guys. Plus, it wasn't Arup that did the initial feasibility work. Any info to be dug up should be available from the Traffic Scotland links big Mo posted up.

D3?

Two weeks, a new year and several hangovers later, I'm still taken aback at the price-tag!

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7217233.stm)

End date for road bridges' tolls

Tolls on the Forth and Tay road bridges will be scrapped in less than two weeks, it has been confirmed.
Transport Minister Stewart Stevenson has signed an order removing the tolls from 11 February

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44391000/jpg/_44391626_forthrdtolls203.jpg
Jobs are expected to be lost at the Forth bridge

Stupidest decision, ever.

Stupidest decision, ever.
Yep.


To think they're trading the scrapping of graduate endowment fees (which they campaigned explicitly to get the student vote) to get rid of tolls that no-one had a problem with in the first place and were taken as an acceptable commute routine by those who used it. There's no way the SNP can plow in as much money as these tolls bring in, either.

What nonsense.

I overheard the other day that the bridge will contain space for a tram extension from the airport to Fife. I somehow find it a fairly bizzare idea but I guess it would allow for a park and ride service - but with no tolls why not just drive!

Pisses me off, historic scotland comes out of the woodwork when they are unwanted to halt a major project.

Lots of this and other scottish city's hitorical buildings and sites have been demolished without them comming to the forefront when they are needed.

So F off HS and stop trying to halt a important piece of infrastructure that affects the whole of scotland to save a shitey few loos that are never used.

:rant:

Sunday Herald (http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2014887.0.old_army_loos_halt_the_new_forth_crossing.php)

Old army loos halt the new Forth crossing

£4bn bridge scheme hits unexpected difficulties from Historic Scotland

THE GOVERNMENT'S controversial £4 billion plan to build another road bridge across the Firth of Forth is about to run into an unexpected hitch: a historic toilet.

A first world war latrine at Port Edgar in South Queensferry, along with a cell block, an air-raid shelter and naval barracks, have all been put under legal protection by the government's guardian of ancient monuments, Historic Scotland. But the buildings are directly in the way of the proposed new bridge.

The Sunday Herald can also reveal that another government agency, Transport Scotland, secretly tried to prevent the buildings from being protected to clear the path for the new bridge - a move that has been attacked as "inHistoric Scotland, however, has resisted the pressure and listed the buildings on the old military base because of their "architectural and historic significance". This means they cannot be demolished unless consent has been granted under a special procedure, which can involve ministers.

The site at Port Edgar was bought by the Royal Navy in 1916 and used as a base for servicing torpedo boat destroyers during the first world war. During the 1930s, the barracks became holiday accommodation for poor families, and then reused by the Royal Navy during the second world war.

After it was closed in 1975, ownership passed to the Scottish Office and then the Scottish government, which held on to the base so it could be used to help build another bridge. The plan was to demolish the old naval buildings to make way for a new access road so construction traffic wouldn't have to go through South Queensferry.

But correspondence released to the Sunday Herald under Freedom of Information legislation shows this plan has been stymied by Historic Scotland. In April last year, the agency consulted on plans to list the buildings as "a rare and intact example of a naval barracks".

This drew a sharp response from Transport Scotland, which is behind plans for the new bridge. "We are concerned that any listing of these buildings at this time would be premature," wrote a senior transport official last May.

Despite this, Historic Scotland listed the buildings in September. They include five two-storey barracks, a guard room with cells, a boiler house, an S-shaped air-raid shelter and a latrine.

Malcolm Cooper, Historic Scotland's chief inspector, said the agency could not take account of possible future developments when assessing whether to list buildings. "This is an important part of military history,"he said.

He hoped detailed planning for the new bridge, now under way, would try to find ways of preserving the site. "Listing buildings flags up that they are of merit," he added.

Developers wanting to demolish listed buildings have to apply to the local authority for special consent. If consent is given, the matter then has to be referred to Historic Scotland, which can ask ministers to call for an inquiry.

Stuart Hay, head of campaigns at Friends of the Earth Scotland, said: "We are alarmed and disturbed Transport Scotland feels it is acceptable to attempt to coerce another public body to disregard its statutory conservation duties."

Bruce Whitehead, chair of the local action group, Queensferry Against Another Bridge, urged authorities to save the naval yard. "Ministers should not be allowed to by-pass proper democratic process by including the bridge under national planning framework legislation," he warned.

appropriate meddling" by environmentalists

Better make it 6 billion then or has the 4 billion aready got the 2 to 6 year delay due to this sort of thing already built in. On another note how can it be costing 4 Billion that seems way way too expensive.

Puts the sum of money needed to get crossrail up and running into perspective doesn't it? Oh sorry, the Edinburgh tram scheme does that quite nicely on it's own without the help of a multi-billion pound bridge. So, when that M74 extension coming?

After an admittedly brief google search on the Oresund Bridge project, it seems it cost between 2 and 3.5 billion squids to build depending on the source, I know that was a few years ago but how is it possible this scheme can cost so much more?

http://www.jacobs.com/

JACOBS WINS FORTH BRIDGE CONTRACT

Jacobs Engineering Group Inc has announced that its joint venture team has received a contract from Transport Scotland to design, develop, and project manage the construction of a new cable-stayed bridge across the River Forth.

Jacobs is in joint venture with Arup on the contract. Officials estimated the value of the contract at £100m, one of the biggest transport consulting contracts ever awarded in Scotland. The project is estimated to have a capital value of between £3.2bn and £4.2bn.

Transport Scotland is the country’s national transport agency and is responsible for delivery of the Scottish government's transportation investment program.

A study into the area’s future transportation needs concluded that a replacement crossing for the existing Forth Road Bridge, which is more than 40 years old, is required to maintain a vital link for the economies of Fife, Edinburgh, and the East coast of Scotland.

The joint venture team, which includes Flint & Neill Partnership, Dissing & Weitling, and EC Harris, will provide services across a range of disciplines including architecture and aesthetics, geotechnics, environment and landscaping, budgeting, statutory processes, and health and safety.

Jacobs Group Vice President, Michael Higgins said: “We are delighted that our joint venture with Arup will play a central role in the delivery of the new Forth Bridge, the most exciting and significant transport project planned for Scotland in the 21st century.

“The project will deliver a key element of the country’s future transportation infrastructure and one which will provide a range of benefits for both the local economy and for the wider community in Scotland.”

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7243482.stm)

Mini-ramps to help bridge traffic

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44424000/jpg/_44424899_miniforthbridge203.jpg

Plans for "mini-bridges" designed to reduce the impact of major roadworks on the Forth Road Bridge, scheduled for next year, have been unveiled.
Two large temporary ramps over the main expansion joints would allow workers to rebuild the worn-out components while traffic continues to flow overhead.

A study showed a continuous contraflow of eight weeks would be needed to replace the bridge's expansion joints.

The custom-built ramps would be 80 metres long and two metres high.

They would be positioned under each of the Forth Road Bridge's towers.

I still want to know why this bridge has risen to 4.2 billion when government appointed consultants said it should cost 1.5 billion tops last year? I also want to know why Denmark can build a 19km link incorporating road and rail, a bridge of however many km it is ( far more than the Forth ) an artificial island and 8km tunnel for 3.2 billion?

Right, ok, how the fuck can this be possible for the Forth replacement to cost so much????

Denmark is to build a 19km bridge across the Baltic to Germany at an estimated total cost of €5.6billion. (see here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=700936))

WTF??????

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v627/cristy_bunt/baltic.jpg

Hmmm, what else could we use £4bn for? The possibilities are almost endless...

Forth Road Bridge 'may last for 80 more years'

http://editorial.jpress.co.uk/web/Upload/EN//TH1_212200836en02bridge.jpg
FULL OF LIFE: Lawrence Marshall says latest bridge inspections found ‘encouraging results’

Published Date: 02 December 2008
By CHRIS MARSHALL

THE Forth Road Bridge could last for another 80 years after moves to halt the corrosion in its main cables proved "encouraging", according to the former head of the bridge authority.
Lawrence Marshall, the former chairman of the Forth Estuary Transport Authority (FETA), said plans for a new £4 billion crossing should now be dropped to save taxpayers' money.

Mr Marshall, who now represents campaign group The ForthRight Alliance, called on ministers to repair the existing structure, rather than pursue an "unaffordable" and "unsustainable" new crossing.

But the Scottish Government insisted it had no option but to plough ahead with the new bridge as the full extent of the damage to the 44-year-old structure will not be known until 2011 – far too late to begin work on a replacement.

...continues at the Edinburgh Evening News (http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Forth-Road-Bridge-39may-last.4750997.jp).

http://archive.transformscotland.org.uk/campaigns/FRA/images/heading.gif

Forth Right Alliance (http://www.forthrightalliance.org/)

Repair the Forth Road Bridge -and save Scotland £4,000 million

http://www.constructionnow.co.uk/enews/images/forth%20crossing.jpg

The ForthRight Alliance, the campaign against the proposed Second Forth Road Bridge, have called for Scottish Ministers to save Scottish taxpayers £4,000m by concentrating on repairing the existing bridge rather than pursuing a second bridge.

Lawrence Marshall, chair of the ForthRight Alliance and former chair of the Forth Estuary Transport Authority (between 2005 and 2007), said: "A lot of water has flowed under the Forth Road Bridge since the Scottish Government announced its intention to build a new Forth crossing last December.

"Since then a further internal inspection of the main cables has shown that the wires are corroding at a slower rate than first feared - with the result that weight restrictions might not now have to be introduced until 2021.

"Even more importantly, work to dry out the main cables of the existing bridge has yielded ‘encouraging results’ - there is now proof that the initial lengths treated are drying out. If these results are replicated elsewhere on the main cables then it should be possible to arrest the corrosion and for the bridge to last for its design life of 120 years.

"Moreover, even were cable drying to fail to arrest the corrosion, it has been shown that cable replacement or augmentation is ‘achievable’ at a capital cost of between £91-122m.

"It is our view that any Ministerial decision to contractually commit to an additional bridge costing the public purse up to £4,200m would be, to say the least, premature; and would, moreover, come at a huge opportunity cost for other public spending priorities in Scotland. Working to resolve the problems of the existing bridge should be the top priority of the Scottish Government."

The policy position is available at

Briefing PDF (http://archive.transformscotland.org.uk/campaigns/FRA/docs/2008-12_FRA_briefing.pdf)

A new Forth Bridge is only going to cost between £1.72bn and £2.34bn (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7774761.stm). So that's alright then.... (note: sarcasm)

cant they just replace the cables of the existing bridge? is that stupid question??

Yes, with a caveat. I once heard that described as being like the dentist saying to you "your teeth are fine, but your gums are going to have to come out". The cables that carry the deck could probably be replaced one by one. However, replacing the cables that these are suspended from (the ones in the parabola shape) would probably be impossible without removing the deck, the cables, ie... everything but the piers. You'd be looking at closing it for several years, I would imagine.

But I'm no engineer, so if anyone has a smarter solution, shoot.

haha good analogy. but arent they doing a similar thing with the golden gate? sure i saw a discovery documentary on that... though maybe it was just all the rivets they're replacing...

From our internal newsletter:

FORTH REPLACEMENT CROSSING, UK
Stewart Stevenson, Minister for Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change, made an announcement in the Scottish
Parliament giving the go-ahead for the £1.85bn Forth Replacement Crossing project on 10 December. This
announcement was the culmination of eleven months of substantial effort by an Arup-Jacobs Joint Venture; working
with Transport Scotland in developing a scheme that both meets the project requirements and can be delivered by the
Scottish Government in an affordable manner.
The core of the scheme is a new, iconic crossing of the Firth of Forth; the third crossing in as many centuries in this
historic location. The bridge itself will also be historic, the first three-tower cable stayed bridge in the UK and the first
major highway structure to feature mono-tower construction. The twin main spans of 650m will also make it the
longest spanning cable stayed bridge in the UK. The new bridge will allow HGVs to continue to cross the Forth once
the existing road bridge is closed to heavy traffic in around 2017. The existing road bridge will then provide a
dedicated public transport corridor, including future provision for Light Rapid Transport.
The Joint Venture will now focus on supporting our Client, Transport Scotland, in developing the design for the
crossing and approach roads, and guide the project through a Parliamentary Bill, competitive tendering and delivery for
opening in 2016.

Sunday Herald (http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.2482582.0.revealed_the_third_forth_crossing.php)

THE SUNDAY Herald can today reveal the dramatic first impressions of the new Forth Road Bridge. Our exclusive pictures, above and on the front page, show the design has been radically altered after the crossing was narrowed to cut costs in half.

The number of lanes in each direction was reduced from three to two, with the approaches downgraded from motorways to dual carriageways.
The changes, announced by ministers last month, reduced the expected bill for the bridge from £4 billion to between £1.7bn and £2.3bn

Hmmm these images (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/projects/forth-replacement-crossing/information-centre/image-gallery) were revealed back in april last year SH !! whatyetalkinaboot?
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/FRC_bridges_image_gallery.jpg

:)

All bridge nuts must be replaced

Nine out of a total of 1,888 nuts are cracked
An interim report into the failure of nine heavy-duty nuts on the Forth Road Bridge has found all 1,888 similar nuts on the crossing should be replaced.

Bridge authority Feta ordered the investigation after inspectors found nine cracked nuts during a routine inspection last year.

Engineers FaberMaunsell carried out lab tests and a study of similar issues on suspension bridges across the world.

Continued at...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7999853.stm

Transport Scotland (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/Forth-Replacement-Crossing-tender-process-commences)
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/themes/transport_scotland/images/transportscotland_logo.gif
Forth Replacement Crossing tender process commences


28 June 2009

The process of identifying the contractor who will build the landmark Forth Replacement Crossing is now under way.

The contract notice has been submitted for publication by Transport Scotland, the Scottish Government agency in charge of the scheme.
The news that the single biggest transport infrastructure project in Scotland for a generation, which is due to open to traffic in 2016, is now ready to go to the marketplace will be another boost to the hard-pressed construction industry.
The £1.7bn - £2.3bn project forms the biggest single element of a huge programme of investment by the Scottish Government in Scotland’s road and rail networks which will promote both sustainable economic growth in the future and support hundreds of construction jobs over the next decade.
Scottish Transport Minister Stewart Stevenson said:
"I am delighted that the Forth Replacement Crossing project continues to make progress towards delivery as demanded by the people of Scotland. The need to protect and improve the capacity for cross-Forth travel is beyond doubt and the Scottish Government is absolutely clear that sustainable economic growth must be promoted in these difficult financial times.
"We have also been clear that the Forth Replacement Crossing will be funded directly by the Scottish Government from existing capital budgets. Against the backdrop of the global economic downturn, we are driving forward the largest transport investment programme Scotland has ever seen with a number of vital projects, of which the FRC is the biggest.
"I am looking to the construction industry to be enthusiastic about the chance to bid to build a project which is not only vital for the economy and communities of Scotland but also one which will join the existing two iconic Forth bridges as part of an internationally recognised landmark."
The contract is expected to be priced between £900m and £1.2bn and includes detailed design and construction of the main crossing and road connections.
This will include:
A motorway standard two lane carriageway with hard shoulders, spanning approximately 2.7km in length, comprising a cable-stayed bridge with three "mono-towers", two central spans of approximately 650 metres each and approach viaducts
Trunk road connections north and south of the bridge, including approximately 5.5km of new or improved two or three-lane motorway standard carriageways with hard shoulders and two flyover junctions
An Intelligent Transport System (ITS) including gantry displays to inform drivers of new variable speed limits.
It is anticipated that the tender documents will be issued to the selected bidders by the end of 2009 and the contract awarded in spring 2011.
The start of the procurement process follows an Industry Day held in Edinburgh in March, where world class contractors from the UK and abroad attended to discuss and give feedback on the scheme. This dialogue has been crucial in shaping Transport Scotland’s procurement strategy for the project.
The Scottish Government will seek approval for the project through a Parliamentary Bill, which is expected to be introduced to Parliament at the end of this year.

nce.co.uk (http://www.nce.co.uk/news/business/balfour-beaaty/vinci/morgan-est/bam-nuttall-jv-confirmed-for-forth-replacement-crossing/5204670.article)

Balfour Beaaty/Vinci/Morgan Est/BAM Nuttall JV confirmed for Forth Replacement Crossing

http://www.nce.co.uk/pictures/182xAny/3/9/4/1206394_Forthspan.jpg


Four major contractors today confirmed they will compete as an integrated joint venture to participate in the procurement of Transport Scotland’s £1.7 to £2.3 billion Forth Replacement Crossing.
Morgan Est, BAM Nuttall, Balfour Beatty and VINCI Construction Grands Projets have joined together as Forthspan to address the demands of this major project which is vital to Scotland’s economy.

http://www.nce.co.uk/pictures/586xAny/3/9/3/1206393_forth_0309.jpg

Is this joint bidding approach actually to anyone's advantage, or is it just a legal way of operating as a cartel? (See M74 extension, where only 1 qualifying was received, compromised of 4 of the largest construction firms. The government then has no to choice but to accept the bid.)

Transport Scotland (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/projects/forth-replacement-crossing)

Forth Replacement Crossing

PLANS FOR NEW FORTH CROSSING GO ON DISPLAY

A series of community information displays setting out landscaping and other mitigation measures to be introduced once work commences on the construction of the Forth Replacement Crossing will be open to the public this week


http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/FRC_bridges.jpg

Dates, Times and Venues
Forth Replacement Crossing information displays will take place at the following venues in August.

Queensferry Hotel, North Queensferry: 12th – 26th August
Monday – Sunday 9.00am – 9.00 pm

Inverkeithing Civic Centre, Inverkeithing: 12th – 26th August
Monday and Thursday 9.00am - 7.00pm, Tuesday and Friday 9.00am - 5.00pm
Wednesday and Saturday 9.00am - 12.30pm

Carnegie Library, Dunfermline: 12th –26th August
Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday 9.30am – 7.00pm, Wednesday and Saturday 9.30am – 5pm

Rosyth Library, Rosyth: 12th – 26th August
Monday and Thursday 9.00am - 7.00pm, Tuesday and Friday 9.00am – 5.00pm
Wednesday and Saturday 9.00am -12.30pm

South Queensferry Library, South Queensferry: 12th – 26th August
Monday and Wednesday 1.00pm - 8.00pm, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday 10.00am - 5.00pm
Saturday 9.00am - 1.00pm

Kirkliston Community Centre: 12th – 26th August
Monday – Thursday 9.30am – 1.00pm and 6.30pm – 9.00pm
Friday 9.30am – 1.00pm

Newton Community Centre, Newton: 17th – 28th August
Monday and Wednesday 10.00am – 12 noon and 7.00pm – 9.00pm
Tuesday and Thursday 2.00pm – 4.00pm and 7.00pm – 9.00pm

:)

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5089/frbo.jpg

Thats an amazing picture :)

When can we expect more info on the new bridge?

story in the sunday herald yesterday... http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/markets-economy/billion-pound-question-over-new-forth-bridge-1.925304

Something I was wondering. I'm assuming this bridge isn't going to be tolled due to the SNP's decision to scrap all tolls in Scotland? If they hadn't scrapped the tolls does that mean that a large part of the cost could then have been met by a private firm such as the companies that operate the Severn and Dartford crossings? If that's the case they rather buggered up their budget there, wiping out Scotland's entire transport infrastructure budget on another one of their wee good publicity, we are the people policies. Just musing, you know the score, Chief?

As you're all aware, I've always been a big Friends of the Earth man. I only ever eat dead things for a start. That's compassion. I think GlasgowMan is too? That right, bud?

Ministers put Forth crossing plans

17 Nov 2009

Legislation to build the new Forth Road Bridge has been unveiled by Scottish Ministers amidst an ongoing funding row with Westminster.

Valued at £2bn the crossing is needed to replace the existing structure, after concerns were raised over its long term viability. However the chasm between Edinburgh and London may prove a harder bridge to hurdle.

Opposition parties have criticised the bill for failing to state how the crossing would be paid for. Finance would be provided by capital budgets – after a request to borrow from future budgets was denied.

Friends of the Earth claim a new bridge is unnecessary and have costed repair work to the existing crossing at £122m.

Ministers state construction could begin by 2011 for a 2016 opening.

http://www.urbanrealm.co.uk/news/1918/Ministers_put_Forth_crossing_plans.html

Transport Scotland (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/projects/forth-replacement-crossing)

-BWE_fWh8bw

I do think they need to build another crossing point before it is too late, but the cost could be be reduced and i'm not sure if this is possible but i did hear on TV that it would cost less to have a tunnel going under rather than a bridge ?.

The third Forth bridge...this is confusing.

Support the construction, but the bridge should be tolled to help pay at least some of the costs.

Tunnels cost way more than bridges.

Tunnels cost way more than bridges.

This is surely the case. It would end the usual days of 'closed to high sided vehicles.' However am I right in saying trucks carrying flammables aren't allowed in such tunnels (?)

These effing environmentalists however need a lesson in macroeconomics. To be still arguing about whether a replacement is needed, is a forgone conclusion. By hook or by crook, lets get it done.

Has devolution really floored us with regards to funding it?

Should we not be investing more effort in exploring sustainable Public Transport strategies than providing more capacity for the car? (which is soooo last century!) ;)

The new bridge will have the same capacity as the old one so it isn't really providing more capacity for the car (granted the fact that the buses & taxis will be using the old one will free up a bit of space for crs, but not much).

So is the idea that no private vehicles use the old bridge?

Yes, the old bridge will be for PT and peds only:


Strategy

Following extensive studies and in light of the more positive prognosis for the Forth Road Bridge, Transport Scotland has developed a managed crossing strategy for the Forth Replacement Crossing which takes into account the existing bridge.

The more positive prognosis for the Forth Road Bridge allows it to become a dedicated public transport corridor carrying public transport, pedestrians and cyclists. In the future it could be adapted to carry a Light Rapid Transit (LRT) system, such as a tram.

A refined, sleeker replacement bridge is proposed to complement the existing bridges and setting. This bridge will carry cars and, importantly, heavy goods vehicles.

The strategy for the connecting road network combines the use of state-of-the-art traffic management technology, with significant junction improvements and new high-quality dual carriageways.

The revisions and refinements mean that the project is now estimated to cost between £1.7 and £2.3 billion – a saving of around £1.7 billion on the original estimate of £3.2 to £4.2 billion.

The strategy provides all the benefits required - more reliable journeys, improved connections to the trunk road network, a dedicated public transport corridor and future opportunity for LRT - for significantly less cost and less environmental impact.

The project remains on schedule to start construction in 2011 and open in 2016.
From Transport Scotland (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/projects/forth-replacement-crossing/strategy)

The LRT bit sounds like a pipe dream to me - Fife - Edinburgh is too far for that type of transport (and already well served by rail) and there aren't any other trips I can think of for which it would be useful.

MSPs support new Forth crossing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8675534.stm

Plans to build a new Forth road bridge have been backed by a special committee of MSPs set up to scrutinise the plans.

They supported the Forth Crossing Bill, which parliament needs to pass before work on the £2bn project begins.

The Holyrood committee also rejected objections to the overall legislation, but said some specific concerns would be taken forward.

The new crossing would be built by 2016 if approved by parliament, with construction beginning next year.

The plans, described by the Scottish government as the biggest transport infrastructure project in a generation, were brought forward in the wake of concerns about the deteriorating condition of the existing 45-year-old road bridge.

The public has also been asked for its views on continuing to use the current bridge for public transport only, when the new crossing opens.

The Scottish government is planning to fund the cost of the bridge, which links Edinburgh and Fife, through its capital budget.

Transport Scotland (http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/forth-replacement-crossing-stage1-debate)

Forth Replacement Crossing project a step closer after backing from MSPs

The Forth Replacement Crossing project moved a step closer today after MSPs backed the Forth Crossing Bill to go forward to the next stage of parliamentary scrutiny.

The Bill, introduced to the Scottish Parliament by Scottish Government Ministers in November 2009, contains proposals for the Forth Replacement Crossing, which would see a new 2.7km bridge and a number of road connections built and upgraded in Scotland's biggest infrastructure project for a generation.

Following the Stage 1 debate, MSPs voted overwhelmingly in favour to carry the Bill forward to Stage 2, where individual objections will be considered in greater detail.

Speaking after the debate, Transport Minister Stewart Stevenson said:

"This is an important milestone for the Forth Replacement Crossing. There is now near universal agreement that this project, the biggest Scottish infrastructure project for a generation, is vital to the sustainable growth Scotland's economy.

Hurry up already.

For anyone looking for more tidbits on this:

http://www.arup.com/Homepage_Stonecutters_Bridge.aspx

Arup's marketing team has put together a wee microsite describing its work on Hong Kong’s stonking new Stonecutters Bridge and its construction. If you click on the bit that says Feb 2008 at the top, you’ll find a section with some renders of the new Forth Bridge a video of Arup talking heads discussing Arup’s approach to the design of the new crossing.

Not jaw-droppingly exciting, but thought I’d mention it here.

(news from 2 months ago, so not news, as such, and barely "newsworthy" even then - but its better than silence!)

1 Aug 2010 - Colin Donald, Business Editor

Transport Scotland (TS) has said that the new Forth Bridge project “remains on track” despite the surprise withdrawal of Vinci Construction from the consortium most likely to undertake Scotland’s largest- ever civil engineering project.

The unexplained decision by Vinci, the world’s largest construction company by revenue, to turn its back on the four-member Forthspan consortium, has baffled the international civil engineering world. Forthspan is hotly tipped to win the contract to build the £1.7 million-to-£2.3m structure over a rival bidder.

The place of the €32bn-revenue French company’s leading role in the consortium, also including Balfour Beatty, Morgan Est and BAM Nuttall, has been taken by the relatively unknown but well-regarded Danish firm MT Hojgaard (revenue €1bn).

But lack of prior announcement before the replacement was made is likely to prompt questions about the status of the process according to EU procurement law.Can't blame them really, all the recent discussion in parliament had been to do with the £22mil cost of cancelling the project!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/business/corporate-sme/mystery-as-world-s-biggest-bridge-builder-abandons-forth-crossing-project-1.1045213
[I think we can safely assume that the costs in the article "the £1.7 million-to-£2.3m structure" are simply typos and should have been "£1.7 billion-to-£2.3bil", or have there been some very welcome 99.9% savings?]

At least something is moving forwards, the works required to upgrade the M9 approach and junction is up for grabs:
Bidders to be invited for major element of Forth Replacement Crossing project
13 September 2010

Four tenderers, comprising seven major construction firms, are set to compete for the contract to upgrade M9 Junction 1a - a vital element of the Forth Replacement Crossing (FRC) scheme.

They comprise Morrison Construction and joint ventures from Balfour Beatty and Morgan Sindall; John Sisk & Son Ltd and Roadbridge; and Sir Robert McAlpine Ltd and Costain Ltd.

. . .

It is intended that these four will enter into competitive dialogue with Transport Scotland in November to discuss their proposals, before submitting a final tender in Spring 2011. It is anticipated the award of the M9 Junction 1a contract will then be made in July 2011 with construction expected to begin soon after.

BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-11994671)

15 December 2010 Last updated at 00:40

New Forth bridge plan to be approved by MSPs.


Construction of the new Forth road bridge will get under way next year, under plans to be approved by MSPs.

The Scottish Parliament is expected to pass the legislation needed to build the £2bn crossing, due for completion by 2016.

Ministers said the condition of the existing bridge, linking Edinburgh and Fife, was deteriorating.

The project has come under attack from environmental campaigners and there has been a row over how to fund it.

Forth Replacement Crossing

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Img/917/_thm125/0098244.jpg


21/01/2011

Legal authority to build the Forth Replacement Crossing (FRC) has been given following Royal Assent for the necessary legislation to build the scheme.

Royal Assent will see the Forth Crossing Bill, approved by the Scottish Parliament on 15 December, come into force as the Forth Crossing Act and officially grant Scottish Ministers the powers to begin construction of the project later this year.

The final invitation to tender for the principal FRC contract was issued before Christmas, marking the end of a year-long competitive dialogue process between Transport Scotland and the two consortia bidding for the principal FRC contract: Forthspan and Forth Crossing Bridge Constructors (FCBC).

Both consortia are now preparing their final tenders before submitting them at the end of January. The contract is expected to be worth between £0.9 billion and £1.2 billion (excluding VAT and at 2011 prices) and is due to be awarded in April this year.

Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth John Swinney said:

"While this Government's efforts have been rightly focused on keeping Scotland moving during the severe winter weather, this sustained progress in delivering the Forth Replacement Crossing further underlines there is no let up in our programme of investment in Scotland's economy.

"Royal Assent for the Forth Crossing Bill marks a historic step forward for this absolutely essential project. The project is on time and within budget and this is a testament to the hard work of all concerned with progressing parallel Parliamentary and procurement processes. The Scottish Government has committed to ensuring the FRC is completed by 2016 and we are on track to award the main contract for the project by April 2011.

"This news, alongside last month's announcements of the opening of the Airdrie-Bathgate line and confirmation for the upgrading of the M8 and the central Scotland motorway network, demonstrate the real progress being made by the Scottish Government in investing billions in Scotland's sustainable economic growth."

Scotland.gov.uk (http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2011/01/21094653)

Felt I need to comment ont this. I find it truely alarming how much money (our money) the goverment spends on these kind of projects.
First it was the parliment building, then the trams and now this.
How it can cost so much is beyond me, more than the millau bridge- a modern day engineering masterpiece.
I was always taught you looked at the options and choose the one that offers the best value for money- not neccesarily the cheapest or most expensive. Our Goverment seems to just go for the outrageously expensive option.
I certainly won't be voting for these clowns in the next election.

Mikey 1984 GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT I totally disagree with everthing you have said there the current government have nothing to do with the parliment and trams projects and and actually tried to stop the latter forseeing the disaster it has become.

I have said earlier I think the SNP have made a good decision in the current economic climate as the cost of a 2 lane + hard shoulder bridge is a fraction of the cost of a 3 lane + hard shoulder. I belive the estimated cost for the bridge tender (not connecting roads & junctions could be as low as £900M (confirmed above by transport scotland) which is good value considering a 3 lane bridge was originally valued by the Labour administration at costing up to £4.3bn and as they would probably have built it with PFI it would no doubt eventually cost us £10bn + in the long term.

The main reason for the bridge being replace is that corrosion and overuse has led to damage to the main supporting cables . This meant from 2016 heavy goods vehicles would have to be banned from the bridge with the bridge needing to be closed totally at some point for repairs to be carried out.

Since the tolls on the existing bridge have been removed and M9 spur completed, congestion has been substantially reduced and the new setup will effictively have 2xcar,1xbus & hard shoulder in each direction which encorages public transport.


Also in future after bridge repairs an extra lane in each direction could be used for light rail or multi-occupant car journeys.

The OPPOSITION (LAB & LIB) parties you want to vote for squandered BILLIONS of pounds of scotlands money in future payments to contracts with RIP OFF private companies for the next 30 years because they did not WANT to pay for a single new school, hospital or capital project when they had there time when going was GOOD!

^^ Glad someone can see through the Labourite smokescreen that is the mainstream media.

The strategy of delaying payment but delivering the goods while in power is largely why we're all in this mess. Respectfully, mike1984, you need to know the full story before you make voting decisions: it was the aforementioned Labour clowns who rammed the parliament and trams through. The bridge is economically crucial to the country as a whole and I think the current lot have had the balls to insist on that and tell the country, we need to take the hit for this now - for economic stability AND value for money.

it was the aforementioned Labour clowns who rammed the trams through.

I guess politics will become increasingly involved in debate over the next 2 months :ohno: . I feel the need to point out that Audit Scotland have made it clear that at the time when Labour were involved there was absolutely no evidence of any financial mismanagement. Those politicians cannot be held accountable for any subsequent problems. Audit Scotland have subsequently laid a proportion of the blame at the current Government's lack of interest in the project. Even if they were not in favour of the project, surely a competent administration would look after the country's interest and have taken positive measures to ensure good management. Unfortunately this administration have shown no interest in the country's largest current capital project. Let's just hope the same scenario doesn't happen with the bridge.


Back to the topic, I'm still not convinced that the current proposal is the optimal solution, but it certainly is a suitable proposal.

it was the aforementioned Labour clowns who rammed the trams through.

I guess politics will become increasingly involved in debate over the next 2 months :ohno: . I feel the need to point out that Audit Scotland have made it clear that at the time when Labour were involved there was absolutely no evidence of any financial mismanagement. Those politicians cannot be held accountable for any subsequent problems. Audit Scotland have subsequently laid a proportion of the blame at the current Government's lack of interest in the project. Even if they were not in favour of the project, surely a competent administration would look after the country's interest and have taken positive measures to ensure good management. Unfortunately this administration have shown no interest in the country's largest current capital project. Let's just hope the same scenario doesn't happen with the bridge.


Back to the topic, I'm still not convinced that the current proposal is the optimal solution, but it certainly is a suitable proposal.

The problem with the trams project seems to be that the contract was drafted in such a way that all risk lies with the taxpayer. Who is to blame for that I don't know. I do know that the contract for the M74 completion by way of comparison leaves the contractor with all the risk, apart from grouting works.

The problem with the trams project seems to be that the contract was drafted in such a way that all risk lies with the taxpayer. Who is to blame for that I don't know. I do know that the contract for the M74 completion by way of comparison leaves the contractor with all the risk, apart from grouting works.

Although, it's not quite that simple, you make a good point. Unfortunately I think the civil servants are key to this. When it comes to building contracts the politicians (in any party) would probably think a JCT was a digger :bash:. The scary thing that I can't get my head around is the most damning part of the Fraser report was the choice of contract and lack of understanding of the implications of construction management. Why 10 years later had they had not learnt?

Indeed, the M74 contract has worked excellently. The most crucual task is balancing risk with cost, and it's not an easy one to balance.

Does anyone know the form of contract being considered for the bridge? I asume it will be a form of NEC3 or FIDIC?

Eta - I've got a feeling it's FIDIC Red book....

Although, it's not quite that simple, you make a good point. Unfortunately I think the civil servants are key to this. When it comes to building contracts the politicians (in any party) would probably think a JCT was a digger :bash:. The scary thing that I can't get my head around is the most damning part of the Fraser report was the choice of contract and lack of understanding of the implications of construction management. Why 10 years later had they had not learnt?

Indeed, the M74 contract has worked excellently. The most crucual task is balancing risk with cost, and it's not an easy one to balance.

Does anyone know the form of contract being considered for the bridge? I asume it will be a form of NEC3 or FIDIC?

Eta - I've got a feeling it's FIDIC Red book....

*I found this on the Transport Scotland website: "The anticipated price for the Principal Contract (i.e. 2011 prices and excluding and allowance for price escalation during the construction phase and any VAT) is estimated to be between £0.9 billion and £1.2 billion."*

I don't know much about contracts but I'm guessing the reference to price escalation is significant?

Edit: from TS website: The contract shall be a fixed price lump sum design and build bespoke contract based on the FIDIC Conditions of Contract for EPC / Turnkey Contracts ("Silver Book") as a platform, with payment by installments on interim indicators based on competed milestones.

Edit: from TS website: The contract shall be a fixed price lump sum design and build bespoke contract based on the FIDIC Conditions of Contract for EPC / Turnkey Contracts ("Silver Book") as a platform, with payment by installments on interim indicators based on competed milestones.

Cheers. That makes sense, the "silver book" is the Turnkey version. I knew I had seen FIDIC mentioned somewhere. This will be interesting, I don't know of any other FIDIC contract used before in Scotland..... But then again i don't know of any other Scottish contract sum so big :) .

The trams project was a edinburgh city council project from inception and will be owned 100% by the council on completion. The SNP did not wash its hands of the project managment as you seem to be suggesting. The issue here is funding and my gripe with labour is that they voted in favour of funding the project when the SNP wanted to scrap it. It was well known at the time the cost could overrun and that was one of the conditions of the vote that government money was capped at £375M. Evey project the SNP have gone ahead with so far has been delivered on time and budget.

.......Evey project the SNP have gone ahead with so far has been delivered on time and budget.

The Auditor General and Audit Scotland don't lie. I don't want to discuss any more unrelated politics in here, but I'll be more than happy to do so in the politics thread. If you don't mind I'll copy your post and reply in more detail there.

The SNP never went ahead with trams they voted against it!

On a more positive note:

It gets cheaper every day from BBC news...

Consortium to build new Forth bridge

The Forth Crossing Bridge Constructors Consortium has been chosen ahead of Forthspan, which had also been bidding for the contract.

It follows an 18-month tender process. The bid for the design-and-build contract is valued at £790m.

Ministers said the condition of the existing bridge, linking Edinburgh and Fife, was deteriorating.

The new Forth road bridge is due for completion by 2016.

The Forth Crossing Bridge Constructors (FCBC) consortium is made up of Dragados, Hochtief, American Bridge International and Morrison Construction.

The consortium said it would cost £1.47bn to £1.62bn, a reduction on the project's original estimated cost of £1.7bn to £2.3bn.

No comments that today work officially started on the bridge?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16284631

I guess politics will become increasingly involved in debate over the next 2 months :ohno: . I feel the need to point out that Audit Scotland have made it clear that at the time when Labour were involved there was absolutely no evidence of any financial mismanagement. Those politicians cannot be held accountable for any subsequent problems. Audit Scotland have subsequently laid a proportion of the blame at the current Government's lack of interest in the project. Even if they were not in favour of the project, surely a competent administration would look after the country's interest and have taken positive measures to ensure good management. Unfortunately this administration have shown no interest in the country's largest current capital project. Let's just hope the same scenario doesn't happen with the bridge.


Back to the topic, I'm still not convinced that the current proposal is the optimal solution, but it certainly is a suitable proposal.

Labour, Tories and the Lib Dems all voted in favour of the tram project. They had NO IDEA what they were doing and fucked up the contracts dreadfully. But you think they aren't to blame? Oh god how I despair for this poor country :ohno:

No comments that today work officially started on the bridge?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16284631

It started about 4 months ago so I guess this was a bit of a PR stunt.


Labour, Tories and the Lib Dems all voted in favour of the tram project. They had NO IDEA what they were doing and fucked up the contracts dreadfully. But you think they aren't to blame? Oh god how I despair for this poor country :ohno:

If you want to take such a simplistic view that's your prerogative, but I'm not sure that it's conducive to fair representation of what is a very complex chain of events.

If you want to take such a simplistic view that's your prerogative, but I'm not sure that it's conducive to fair representation of what is a very complex chain of events.

To untangle your sentence: it isn't as simple as that. Well, the SNP didn't support the tram scheme. The other main parties did.

To untangle your sentence: it isn't as simple as that. Well, the SNP didn't support the tram scheme. The other main parties did.

There has been too much rewriting of history about this issue.

The SNP were the main proponents of the Edinburgh Tram project when in opposition. Kenny MacAskill wrote the Editorial for trams4edinburgh.co.uk in December 2000 decrying the proposals by the then Labour controlled Edinburgh City Council for a guided busway (CERT):

trams4edinburgh.co.uk

In MacAskill's own words:

"Edinburgh is now a Capital City it must not only think as such but act in a manner befitting that title. Now is the time to abandon CERT and go for a light rail network."

The SNP only turned against the tram scheme when MacAskill was selected for Edinburgh East Constituency (the only constutuency not included in the initial proposals) for the SNP. He then, as SNP Transport spokesman, bullied other SNP members into falling into line and opposing the Tram project.

This was reported in detail by former SNP Member of the Scottish Parliament Chris Harvie:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/salmond_faces_revolt_over_party_s_transport_strategy_1_750121

This 'tactical' opposition to the tram project became 'strategic' over time as a way of being populist and capitalising on local discontent over disruption.

The tram fiasco in Edinburgh has been as much a product of the "throw the toys out of the pram" attitude of Alex Salmond and the SNP Scottish Government as it is to the ineptitude of Transport Initiatives Edinburgh and the Liberal Democrat-SNP coalition in the City of Edinburgh Council.

22 January 2012 Last updated at 12:56

BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-16671719)

Plan for viewing platform at top of Forth Rail Bridge

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/58027000/jpg/_58027924_forth_bridge.jpg

Rail chiefs are looking at the idea of building a viewing platform for visitors to be hoisted more than 300ft to the top of the Forth Rail Bridge.

Network Rail, which manages the bridge, has confirmed it is examining the feasibility of establishing visitor access.

The platform would offer impressive views of all around the Firth of Forth.

Last month a 10-year job to paint the bridge was finally completed. The refurbishment cost £130m.

Come on let's here your names for the new bridge. Here are a few of mine. The Third Lion Bridge, Jacobite Bridge, Northern Highland Gate Bridge and Freedom Bridge. :)

Public to name new Forth crossing



The public will be allowed to vote for the name of the new Forth crossing, the Scottish government has decided.

Transport Minister Keith Brown announced details of the process to choose the name.

An advisory panel is to be established to choose a shortlist of names, with the vote taking place in 2013.

Construction of the Forth Replacement Crossing, as it is currently known, began in 2011 and is due to be completed in 2016.

Speaking on a visit to the existing Forth Road Bridge, Mr Brown said: "It is absolutely right that the people of Scotland have a say on the identity of this historic project and for that reason I am very happy to announce that a public vote on the naming will take place next year.

"I will shortly be appointing a panel of independent advisors to undertake a consultation on potential names. They will consider all possible suggestions before producing a shortlist of the most appropriate that can be put to a public vote.

"This is an exciting project that we want the people of Scotland to take pride in and I am delighted that the people of Scotland will have the opportunity to have the final say."

The Forth crossing has been described as the biggest infrastructure project in Scotland for a generation.

Mr Brown also highlighted continuing efforts to have the historic 19th Century Forth Bridge recognised as a World Heritage Site.

He added: "On behalf of the Forth Bridges Forum, Historic Scotland are preparing to submit a Technical Evaluation document in support of the Forth Bridge's application for World Heritage Status.

"This is just the first round of the process.

"Transport Scotland, Network Rail and the surrounding local authorities are supportive of the bid and look forward to working with Historic Scotland on this important project."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-17266898

It has to be the Third Forth Bridge

:banana:

Come on let's here your names for the new bridge. Here are a few of mine. The Third Lion Bridge, Jacobite Bridge, Northern Highland Gate Bridge and Freedom Bridge. :)

Public to name new Forth crossing



The public will be allowed to vote for the name of the new Forth crossing, the Scottish government has decided.

Transport Minister Keith Brown announced details of the process to choose the name.

An advisory panel is to be established to choose a shortlist of names, with the vote taking place in 2013.

Construction of the Forth Replacement Crossing, as it is currently known, began in 2011 and is due to be completed in 2016.

Speaking on a visit to the existing Forth Road Bridge, Mr Brown said: "It is absolutely right that the people of Scotland have a say on the identity of this historic project and for that reason I am very happy to announce that a public vote on the naming will take place next year.

"I will shortly be appointing a panel of independent advisors to undertake a consultation on potential names. They will consider all possible suggestions before producing a shortlist of the most appropriate that can be put to a public vote.

"This is an exciting project that we want the people of Scotland to take pride in and I am delighted that the people of Scotland will have the opportunity to have the final say."

The Forth crossing has been described as the biggest infrastructure project in Scotland for a generation.

Mr Brown also highlighted continuing efforts to have the historic 19th Century Forth Bridge recognised as a World Heritage Site.

He added: "On behalf of the Forth Bridges Forum, Historic Scotland are preparing to submit a Technical Evaluation document in support of the Forth Bridge's application for World Heritage Status.

"This is just the first round of the process.

"Transport Scotland, Network Rail and the surrounding local authorities are supportive of the bid and look forward to working with Historic Scotland on this important project."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-17266898

Has to be "The Bridge of Independece"

Has to be "The Bridge of Independece"

Ooooh, Independence Bridge, I like it :)

I always liked the suggestion Kingdom Bridge, as in the Kingdom of Fife.

The Buchanan Bridge?

MegaBridgeTurbo.com

A Bridge Too Far...

The Fifth Road bridge? :lol:

Brigadoon

Bridge: Sponsored by Umbro.

I'd rather go for humour than cheese please.

Ooh, seeing as it's about to come onto the market how about "The Bridge to Nowhere"?

(not that I'm saying anything about Fife here ;))


But yeah, asking the public to name it? One thing to say to that, Pure Dead Brilliant! :bash:

BBC Pictures of Scotland
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17311317

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/58971000/jpg/_58971507_12_03_05forthbridge-013a-de.jpg

'On Monday, 5 March, the Forth Bridge was illuminated at night for the first time in two years.'

Photo by Alan Napier

Finally! Returned to it's former glory. God I love that bridge.

BBC Pictures of Scotland
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/17341807

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59021000/jpg/_59021208_grantritchie2.jpg

'...the Forth Road Bridge in Scotland with Venus and Jupiter suspended in the night sky above.'

Photo by Grant Richie

Absolutely beautiful.

Just think how it will look with the new bridge not just at night but in the day.:angel1:.

White angle bridge.

Railway Posters

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59090000/jpg/_59090670_1928.jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59089000/jpg/_59089929_1952.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17380917

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/59089000/jpg/_59089929_1952.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17380917[/CENTER]
Love love love love LOVE this poster. This symbolises perfectly one of the reasons that Scotland is great. Look at what is going on in this image. Wonderful.

:)

zh1oUR18thE

http://www.nce.co.uk/news/structures/forth-replacement-crossing-caissons-arrive-on-site/8630440.article?blocktitle=Exclusive-news-from-NCE-magazine&contentID=204

Smashing!

Also, great video Mo :)

Published on Friday 14 September 2012 08:27
construction of the new Forth Crossing is beginning to take shape in and around Queensferry.
Three steel caissons, which will house the main towers supporting the new bridge, are now in position to the west of the Forth Road Bridge.
The installation of these caissons is seen as a mileston” in the Forth Crossing project and the first visible sign there is a bridge in progress.
David Climie, Forth Replacement Crossing project director for Transport Scotland, said: “The process to install the steel caissons, which will form the foundations for the new bridge is proceeding to plan with all three now in place on the sea bed at the bottom of the Forth.
“Further excavation of seabed material is now underway that will eventually see the base of each caisson sunk down to the bedrock before being filled with the concrete that the bridge’s towers will be built upon. These operations are some of the most complex works in the entire FRC construction, and are likely to be ongoing for most of this year.”
Christian Niemietz, the Forth Crossing bridge costractor’s senior engineer added: “The positioning of all three caissons is a significant milestone for the project and provides real evidence of the new bridge taking shape.”
While daily works go on in the Forth, on dry land major works are also being undertaken around Queensferry.
In fields at Echline, next to the A904, tons of soil are being removed to pave the way for the proposed motorway route which will link the new bridge to the M9 Spur at Scotstoun. Also south of the town, noise bunding construction, - mounds of earth - is set to get underway close to the Dundas Home Farm area.
At Scotstoun in recent weeks, work has commenced to create on/off ramps for public transport from the B800 to the A90 in preparation for when the new crossing opens.
Work is also underway in fields close to Springfield as this area is where the new bridge will launch out into the Forth.
And in neighbouring Kirkliston, works at Junction 1A, which will link traffic from the M9 Spur to the M9 westbound, are also well underway.
The Forth Crossing project is now almost 18 months into its six year programme and, as expected, construction work in and around Queensferry is escalating.
While it is inevitable noise and vibration will begin to impact on households in the months ahead, Transport Scotland said that, whilst it can be “concerning” for residents, the level of vibration is very low and consequently will not materially affect the structure and fabric of 
adjacent buildings.
Transport Scotland proposes to stage a public meeting in Queensferry within the coming months regarding the new Queensferry junction but no date has yet been set.
The west walkway on the Forth Road Bridge is now open on Saturdays to allow pedestrians the opportunity to see the bridge works on the Forth close up.
http://www.queensferrygazette.co.uk/news/local-headlines/a-big-leap-forward-1-2525109

Published on Friday 14 September 2012 08:27
construction of the new Forth Crossing is beginning to take shape in and around Queensferry.
Three steel caissons, which will house the main towers supporting the new bridge, are now in position to the west of the Forth Road Bridge.
The installation of these caissons is seen as a mileston” in the Forth Crossing project and the first visible sign there is a bridge in progress.
David Climie, Forth Replacement Crossing project director for Transport Scotland, said: “The process to install the steel caissons, which will form the foundations for the new bridge is proceeding to plan with all three now in place on the sea bed at the bottom of the Forth.
“Further excavation of seabed material is now underway that will eventually see the base of each caisson sunk down to the bedrock before being filled with the concrete that the bridge’s towers will be built upon. These operations are some of the most complex works in the entire FRC construction, and are likely to be ongoing for most of this year.”
Christian Niemietz, the Forth Crossing bridge costractor’s senior engineer added: “The positioning of all three caissons is a significant milestone for the project and provides real evidence of the new bridge taking shape.”
While daily works go on in the Forth, on dry land major works are also being undertaken around Queensferry.
In fields at Echline, next to the A904, tons of soil are being removed to pave the way for the proposed motorway route which will link the new bridge to the M9 Spur at Scotstoun. Also south of the town, noise bunding construction, - mounds of earth - is set to get underway close to the Dundas Home Farm area.
At Scotstoun in recent weeks, work has commenced to create on/off ramps for public transport from the B800 to the A90 in preparation for when the new crossing opens.
Work is also underway in fields close to Springfield as this area is where the new bridge will launch out into the Forth.
And in neighbouring Kirkliston, works at Junction 1A, which will link traffic from the M9 Spur to the M9 westbound, are also well underway.
The Forth Crossing project is now almost 18 months into its six year programme and, as expected, construction work in and around Queensferry is escalating.
While it is inevitable noise and vibration will begin to impact on households in the months ahead, Transport Scotland said that, whilst it can be “concerning” for residents, the level of vibration is very low and consequently will not materially affect the structure and fabric of 
adjacent buildings.
Transport Scotland proposes to stage a public meeting in Queensferry within the coming months regarding the new Queensferry junction but no date has yet been set.
The west walkway on the Forth Road Bridge is now open on Saturdays to allow pedestrians the opportunity to see the bridge works on the Forth close up.
http://www.queensferrygazette.co.uk/news/local-headlines/a-big-leap-forward-1-2525109

http://www.queensferrygazette.co.uk/webimage/1.2525108.1347542954!image/1346346293.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/1346346293.jpg

Thanks, I couldn't get the photo to copy.

:righton:

'Landmark' for Forth Replacement Crossing project

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/63937000/jpg/_63937306_bridge3.jpg

The project to build a new bridge over the Firth of Forth has reached a "landmark moment", according to Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.

The Forth Replacement Crossing is the biggest transport infrastructure project in Scotland for a generation.

Ms Sturgeon visited the project's Rosyth dockyard site on Monday.

She saw the huge sections which are being craned out on to Beamer Rock as part of work on the foundation for the bridge's central tower.

The first of the 10 sections is being lowered into position.

Engineers described it as the most critical stage of the building project, as any mistakes could have huge consequences.

'Landmark moment'

The lighthouse on Beamer Rock was removed last year so that the rock can be used as a foundation for one of the towers.

Construction of the bridge began in 2011 and is due to be completed in 2016.

Ms Sturgeon said: "It was a privilege to visit the biggest transport infrastructure project in Scotland for a generation at such an exciting landmark moment.

"We have around 1,200 people working on the project site, which doesn't include the significant number of people working for the 300-plus Scottish firms currently working in the subcontracting and supply chain for the project.

"This is clear evidence that the project is creating jobs for Scotland and benefiting the local and national economy."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-20197811

:)

2Mhvch1hZBg

BBC Pictures Of Scotland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/64066000/jpg/_64066385_img_1605.jpg

'The final hull section of aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth has arrived at Babcock’s Rosyth dockyard. It passed under the Forth Bridge shortly before 11:00 on Sunday.' (11th November 2012)

lnIvrA5FTB0

A key element of the Forth Replacement Crossing project will go live next week, delivering early benefits to motorists and public transport users.

Extreme weather permitting, the Intelligent Transport System (ITS) is expected to launch on the M90 in Fife from Tuesday (4 December), creating a dedicated bus lane and also variable speed limits which will be used during periods of congestion to smooth traffic flow, cut jams and make journey times more reliable.

Although the system does not require any specialist knowledge or skills from drivers, as part of its information campaign Transport Scotland has produced a short video to give drivers a quick preview of what the system looks like when operational.

Variable speeds, at last!

I hope it'll be backed up by ANPR so that it actually works, the smoothest motorway traffic was when they were enforcing along the M80.

Variable speeds, at last!

I hope it'll be backed up by ANPR so that it actually works,.

It will. The FRC scheme as a whole will have 16 ANPR cameras.

http://www.arunasworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Forth-Road-Bridge-6.jpg

I visited Forth Bridge in 2004.....it was amazing.... unfortunately don't have any pics left with me of forth bridge :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hlfBPKfoPk

-hlfBPKfoPk

SCOTTISH FIRMS LAND £130M OF FORTH BRIDGE CONTRACTS

http://www.constructionnow.co.uk/enews/images/Forth_Replacement_Crossing.JPG

Scottish subcontractors have snapped up contracts worth £130m on the Forth Replacement Crossing, Scottish Government figures have revealed.
Latest figures show 334 Scottish subcontractors and suppliers have won work packages worth £130m so far on the new Forth Bridge.
The Forth Crossing Bridge Constructors consortium has handed out the work bonanza to local firms on the £1.5bn scheme.
By the end of 2012, Scottish firms had won 63% of subcontracts and 89% of supply orders – up from 60.5% and 86.5% in July.
Transport Minister Keith Brown said: “This is excellent news and continues to show how crucial this project is for Scotland’s economic recovery as well as its future prosperity.
“We always said that the main contract would provide increasing opportunities for Scottish firms during the construction period.
“This will continue all the way into 2016 when the bridge is completed and open and begins providing a significantly improved economic artery across the Forth.
“I’m particularly pleased that Scottish firms are obviously succeeding in winning an increasing share of the available subcontract and supply business.”

www.transportscotland.gov.uk

..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hlfBPKfoPk

-hlfBPKfoPk
Great video!

The Scotsman - 23rd January, 2013 (http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/model-bridge-to-span-the-learning-gap-1-2750818)

http://www.scotsman.com/webimage/1.2750817.1358846179!image/3466572651.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/3466572651.jpg

A MODEL of the new Forth Road Bridge has gone on show at a new education centre at South Queensferry, which will host visits from schools, colleges and other groups, as well as providing an access point for inquiries from the local community affected by the construction works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ms70NJz6eY

1Ms70NJz6eY

Published on 1 Mar 2013


Some of the men who helped build the original Forth Road Bridge were reunited on the site of the new Forth Replacement Crossing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fyIuqnA3SU

-fyIuqnA3SU

New Forth bridge set to rise as foundations are put in place

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn179/djmaxliving/Untitled-2_zps228ae502.png

The new Forth bridge will soon begin rising from the water following the completion of its central tower foundations.

A historic islet in the river was blasted away and nearly three million litres of water displaced to create the foundations for the Forth Replacement Crossing.

Forth Crossing Bridge Constructers (FCBC) blasted Beamer Rock, home to a lighthouse for 185 years, to below water level to build a water-free area known as a cofferdam.

Nearly 3000 cubic metres of water was removed from the cofferdam this week.

FCBC's marine foundations team has now formally handed over to the tower team, ready for work to begin on the superstructure itself.

Transport minister Keith Brown said: "This really is a significant milestone as it signifies the completion of one vital element in the marine foundations and the beginning of work above water on the bridge structure itself.

"It's been a big week for the project and the wintry weather on Wednesday was probably a fitting way for the marine foundations team to leave Beamer Rock given the challenging climate they have had to work in for the past 16 months.

"Despite this, I'm pleased that the handover was very much on schedule and the project continues to progress on time and on budget."

Carlo Germani, projector director for FCBC, said: "Dewatering the central tower cofferdam is a major milestone for this project.

“Creating this water-free environment will allow us to push on with the structural concrete foundation which will be followed by the central tower itself."

http://local.stv.tv/edinburgh/219956-new-forth-bridge-will-soon-rise-from-the-water-with-foundations-placed/

BBC Pictures Of Scotland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22039030)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66763000/jpg/_66763411_bridges.jpg

'Road and rail bridges over the Firth of Forth.'

Photo by Inez Corr

BBC Pictures Of Scotland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21899861)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66555000/jpg/_66555398_campbellstewart.jpg

Photo by Campbell Stewart

BBC Pictures Of Scotland (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-21899861)

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/66555000/jpg/_66555398_campbellstewart.jpg

Photo by Campbell Stewart


The only thing that could make this picture look any better is if he used your camera.

The only thing that could make this picture look any better is if he used your camera.

Hendy for President. :cheers1:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-22335189

Caledonia Bridge, Firth of Forth Crossing, Queensferry Crossing, Saltire Crossing and St Margaret's Crossing.

From that shortlist I'd pick Caledonia Bridge or Saltire Crossing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-22335189

Caledonia Bridge, Firth of Forth Crossing, Queensferry Crossing, Saltire Crossing and St Margaret's Crossing.

From that shortlist I'd pick Caledonia Bridge or Saltire Crossing.

The Saltire Cross(ing) is best.

Outrage at the rubbish names, i feel like the shop that had to recall the 'monkey nuts' because it didn't say on it that it contained nuts in it.

Queensferry Crossing sounds about the least cheesy. Seriously, WTF is with all the shortbread tin crap getting put about these days. "Saltire card", "Saltire Crossing" - we're in Scotland, WE GET IT!

How many great authors, scientists, engineers etc. have been passed by just to shoehorn in yet another unoriginal plastic gimmick of a name?

I voted Saltire Crossing but I think we can ALL agree that it should really be called Salmond Crossing. :storm:

I voted Saltire Crossing but I think we can ALL agree that it should really be called Salmond Crossing. :storm:

I agree.

I'm voting for Queensferry Crossing however as it rolls off the tongue better than Saltire Crossing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUObrNdeoGo


oUObrNdeoGo

Published on 29 Apr 2013


The public vote to decide the name of the new Forth Replacement Crossing gets underway this morning. After receiving over 7,600 suggestions from the public, an independent panel has agreed a shortlist of five names (in alphabetical order):

Caledonia Bridge
Firth of Forth Crossing
Queensferry Crossing
Saltire Crossing
St Margaret's Crossing

Members of the public can now vote for their favourite via the dedicated website: www.namethebridge.co.uk , SMS texting or by requesting a postal vote. The website includes full details on the voting process

Firth of Forth Crossing is a bit of a mouthful so I'd plump for Queensferry Crossing.

Firth of Forth Crossing is a bit of a mouthful so I'd plump for Queensferry Crossing.

I agree. Queensferry makes sense, that's where the bridge is.

I'd have gone with- the third fourth bridge!

Got to be Queensferry. Some of the others are horrific.

but its less in Queensferry than the other bridges? re name the other bridges? i do like Queensferry 3,

Ach, they're all terrible, and "crossing"? - it'll get called "bridge" whatever the official name might be.

I voted for Caledonia Bridge. I think the options aren't great, but I think Caledonia is the best of a bad bunch. Queensferry Crossing doesn't sound 'big' enough for the bridge, if that makes any sense. :S

I'd have been happy with "The Bridge" as a nod to one of our great contemporary authors.

To be fair most will just call it the 'new Forth bridge' in conversation anywway.

To be fair most will just call it the 'new Forth bridge' in conversation anywway.

Nobody calls the Squinty Bridge the Clyde Arc - whatever they choose for this it'll either be the 'new Forth bridge' or I suspect the 'third Forth bridge' to most people.

Pinch of salt required here because its from the Greens, but is there any merit to the idea that there was, after all, no need to build the new bridge?

http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/news/show/6817/report-shows-extra-forth-crossing-is-salmond-s-folly

REPORT SHOWS EXTRA FORTH CROSSING IS SALMOND'S FOLLY3 May 2013

Scottish Greens say a report by the chief engineer of the Forth Road Bridge, showing that the anchorages of the structure are "in good condition with no real evidence of corrosion", proves that the SNP, supported by Labour, Libdems and Tories, were reckless to blow over a billion pounds on an additional crossing.

The Scottish Greens were the only party that argued in favour of repairing the existing bridge as this would have saved millions and not required its closure.

A report in February of this year showed that dehumidification of the main cables has worked.

Patrick Harvie, Green MSP for Glasgow and transport spokesperson for the Scottish Greens, said:

"It is now crystal clear that over a billion pounds of public funds were squandered on an ego-trip for ministers, with other parties simply following the herd. The latest findings prove how scandalous it was to plough ahead with the additional crossing without knowing whether there was actually a problem that needed fixed.

"Back in February we challenged the First Minister to explain what would prevent future governments going back on his pledge that the existing road bridge would only be used for buses and bikes but he failed to do so. The government should accept its reasoning was flawed and explain how it intends to prevent such situations from happening again."

Pinch of salt required here because its from the Greens

Yes. well known for chatting any old shite that sounds good to voters. Wait, who?

Voted "Caledonia Bridge"

Deleted.

I don't like Caledonia, or Saltire, for some reason.

I just don't think every big project in Scotland has to be named after Scotland. It's a bridge that benefits the East of Scotland.

I don't like Caledonia, or Saltire, for some reason.

I just don't think every big project in Scotland has to be named after Scotland. It's a bridge that benefits the East of Scotland.

Name all the big projects in Scotland that are name after Scotland?

Caledonia Bridge for me. Queensferry a close second.

Name all the big projects in Scotland that are name after Scotland?

Saltire Bridge
Saltire Card
Scotrail
Young Scot Card
The Scotsman
Scott's Porridge Oats
The Scott Monument

:P

You missed Cal Mac.

http://images.mysupermarket.co.uk/ProductsDetailed/59/049859.jpg

I love you, Scottish Plain :drool:

Especially the mega doorstep slice!

1st world problem when it doesnt fit properly into your toaster.

Is there actually any domestic toaster in the world capable of handling those leviathans?

Even Turkmenistan's Door to Hell would have difficulty handling "The Motherload".

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RQGkYbg2ftY/T2IVDzwDTWI/AAAAAAAAJTU/C78shajfrL4/s1600/darvaza-turkmenistan-door-to-hell-02.jpg vs. http://images.mysupermarket.co.uk/ProductsDetailed/59/049859.jpg

Well, for example, how many stylised saltire logos do you see on a daily basis?

It's whacking on some vague patriotic title that says nothing about that particular part of Scotland.. I mean, imagine the Humber Bridge being called the ''St. George's Crossing'' or the ''Land of Hope and Glory Crossing''?

No wonder people think us Scots are a wee bit too obsessed with Braveheart. Or maybe I'm just being too cynical...

Forth Bridge World Heritage consultation launched

Urban Realm 20th May 2013

A public consultation has begun into a possible World Heritage bid for the Forth railway bridge, to inform the development of a World Heritage Management Plan for the site.

For 12 weeks individuals and interested parties will have the chance to have their say on the potential social, economic and cultural benefits a listing may bring.

It is hoped this could boost tourism and education in the area following the UK government’s decision that the 19th century structure should top a tentative list which will be put to UNESCO for consideration early next year.

Fiona Hyslop, cabinet secretary for culture and external affairs said: “The Forth Bridge is an iconic and enduring symbol of Scotland’s Victorian engineering ingenuity at its very best. It truly is deserving of World Heritage Site status and as a new industrial heritage site would join our five existing Scottish World Heritage sites in achieving this international recognition.”

http://www.urbanrealm.com/images/news/news_4178.jpg

Urban Realm (http://www.urbanrealm.com/news/4178/Forth_Bridge_World_Heritage_consultation_launched.html)