...continued from the previous thread.

A link to the old thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=403458


by MilwaukeeMark
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2310/nightskylinestarsok2.jpg

Damn, there's an active Milwaukee contingent on here.

LOL agreed! It's like, some kind of "movement" or something...anyway, go get 'em Milwaukee.

I'm just glad to see that there actually ARE people that care about the city and its surroundings! Besides me, of course :)

Does Milwaukee have the most threads??

Honestly, most of the posts about milwaukee are gossip or chatter, not real information.

Well, doesn't that just degrade the whole thread.... lol

Honestly, most of the posts about milwaukee are gossip or chatter, not real information.

Please. Thats just shows the strong Milwaukee crowd represented here, and in turn, results in a lot of posts not necessarily containing new information, but containing opinions about current developments. This presents the opportunity to participate in a wide array of discussions. I like visiting SSC and consistently seeing this thread on the top. If anything, we should be proud its frequented as often as is. The Milwaukee threads are hardly full of mindless chatter. Almost every post is relevant to the thread topic, these first few obviously not included. :)

The chief speaks out.

Independence will save Midwest, chief says

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=543625

Thanks, hydrogen, for starting the thread with my picture. I feel honored. I got the first post without posting! Haha...

Anyway, I was at Pier Wisconsin last night and took a rather stupid video of fish swimming around in the tunnel aquarium. Thought I'd post it for those who haven't been there yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSCAUEvHtNQ

By the way, hydrogen, are you a phish fan by chance?

Honestly, most of the posts about milwaukee are gossip or chatter, not real information.

In a sense, isn't that what these forums are for, to discuss our opinions of projects and potential projects? It isn't as though people are going to change the world with an internet forum. If you want to see real gossip and idle chatter, go take a look at the Chicago or Burj Dubai forums and find the about 1000 posts by megatower obsessing over what the highest occupied floors of Chicago Spire and Burj Dubai will be.

The Milwaukee forumers do a very nice job in their threads actually.

The Milwaukee section of this forum is a lot of "chatter," and some gossip. But right now in Milwaukee there is a lot to chatter and gossip about. We have a whole series of major developments in the pipeline, that, when taken together, have the potential to transform this city. Already the developments that have been completed in the last five years have changed Milwaukee. Those of who love this city and are passionate about it (and I'm glad to see I'm far from the only one) want to talk about what's happening in our city.

Go down the list and you'll see that while Milwaukee isn't poised to build a 90 story tower any time soon, we have whole swaths of redevelopment are giving the city a whole new character: what's happening in the Park East corridor alone could keep an entire thread busy for years. Throw in Commerce Street, Walkers Point (I refuse to call it "The Fifth Ward"), redevelopment in the Meno. Valley, the Pabst project, the great potential that will be realized around the redeveloped train station, continued development on the East Side, Bay View, Riverwest, etc. and I think it's no surprise that us Milwaukee forumers post a lot.

But it's not a completely rosy scenario. Our city faces huge challenges ... our economy has shifted from manufacturing to service economy, but the economy has left half the city behind. Schools continue to stagnate. Crime is on the rise. Huge swaths of the city are mired in hopelessness and despair. One thing I love about Milwaukee is that we can be boosterish about our city while still confronting these issues rather than downplaying them or sweeping them under the rug. That's another reason the Milwaukee threads are so active. We talk almost as much about the negative as we do the positive.

Thanks, hydrogen, for starting the thread with my picture. I feel honored. I got the first post without posting! Haha...

Anyway, I was at Pier Wisconsin last night and took a rather stupid video of fish swimming around in the tunnel aquarium. Thought I'd post it for those who haven't been there yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSCAUEvHtNQ

By the way, hydrogen, are you a phish fan by chance?

What is the state of Pier Wisconsin these days? My wife and I went, very excitedly, a few weekends after it opened. We were very disappointed with its present state. The exhibits were scarce, and unlabeled. You basically had no idea what you were looking at. Nothing to "learn" basically. The aquariums looked awesome, but again, no plaques or anything. The petting tank was murky and uneventful. It has tons of promise, but we thought they definitely rushed the opening. We're curious as to when we should give it another shot.

The Milwaukee section of this forum is a lot of "chatter," and some gossip. But right now in Milwaukee there is a lot to chatter and gossip about. We have a whole series of major developments in the pipeline, that, when taken together, have the potential to transform this city. Already the developments that have been completed in the last five years have changed Milwaukee. Those of who love this city and are passionate about it (and I'm glad to see I'm far from the only one) want to talk about what's happening in our city.

Go down the list and you'll see that while Milwaukee isn't poised to build a 90 story tower any time soon, we have whole swaths of redevelopment are giving the city a whole new character: what's happening in the Park East corridor alone could keep an entire thread busy for years. Throw in Commerce Street, Walkers Point (I refuse to call it "The Fifth Ward"), redevelopment in the Meno. Valley, the Pabst project, the great potential that will be realized around the redeveloped train station, continued development on the East Side, Bay View, Riverwest, etc. and I think it's no surprise that us Milwaukee forumers post a lot.

But it's not a completely rosy scenario. Our city faces huge challenges ... our economy has shifted from manufacturing to service economy, but the economy has left half the city behind. Schools continue to stagnate. Crime is on the rise. Huge swaths of the city are mired in hopelessness and despair. One thing I love about Milwaukee is that we can be boosterish about our city while still confronting these issues rather than downplaying them or sweeping them under the rug. That's another reason the Milwaukee threads are so active. We talk almost as much about the negative as we do the positive.

I couldn't agree with you more. Actually, a lot of the forums have that "chatter" and gossip about new developments. I was impressed when I was reading the Indianapolis forum last night - they're practically having a similar panic attack like we just had when Midwest was/is threatened by an AirTran takeover - but for them its their new convention center hotel. And they're actually writing letters to the mayor!!

Chatter and gossip among like-minded people bring forth new ideas and unity among the forums many threads, which I personally like.

What is the state of Pier Wisconsin these days? My wife and I went, very excitedly, a few weekends after it opened. We were very disappointed with its present state. The exhibits were scarce, and unlabeled. You basically had no idea what you were looking at. Nothing to "learn" basically. The aquariums looked awesome, but again, no plaques or anything. The petting tank was murky and uneventful. It has tons of promise, but we thought they definitely rushed the opening. We're curious as to when we should give it another shot.

Yes, give it another shot. It's still "under construction" in the sense that they're continually opening new exhibits in both the Discovery World and Aquarium sections but there is a LOT more to see and do now than there was at the onset. I most definitely agree with you that they rushed the opening. Things seem to be running more smooth now though.

In the Discovery World section, they've got a number of interactive exhibits up and running. You can ride a Segway, lie on a bed of nails, get a professional photo taken of you (or your family), make foam cut-outs to take home (dragonfly, sailboats, etc.), use a machine to cut out and fold tote bags (lunchboxes will be available soon as well) from cardboard, amongst other things. There are exhibits that let you pull up your own body weight, others that demonstrate the importance of leverage and pulley systems, and all kinds of cool little activity-centered options to keep you busy.

The aquarium section is nearly complete. The touch tank you described now has rocks at the bottom and is a little more visually stimulating. They've added a carribean reef tank to the mix as well. There are a lot more fish in all the tanks and the experience is definitely an eye-full.

The digital theater is still under construction but I anticipate them opening it up very, very shortly. It'll definitely be a sight to behold when it opens. The digital theater is a rounded glass wall that overlooks the lake and the new state park. When the "movie" starts, the image is projected within the glass and you can no longer see outside... it's really a marvel of engineering. In the meantime, the normal movie theater is open and running various movies all the time. I watched a fascinating show about the coral reef the other day...

The Pilot House is completely finished and open to the public. The docks are also open and you can walk all the way around the building. Under construction still is the breakwater but that's a separate thing from the building itself.

All-in-all, I feel as though it's an absolutely amazing place. I bought a membership right off the bat and have since gone back five times. Every time I go back, new things are added and old exhibits have moved on. So, please give it another chance... I'm sure you will not be disappointed.

But it's not a completely rosy scenario. Our city faces huge challenges ... our economy has shifted from manufacturing to service economy, but the economy has left half the city behind. Schools continue to stagnate. Crime is on the rise. Huge swaths of the city are mired in hopelessness and despair. One thing I love about Milwaukee is that we can be boosterish about our city while still confronting these issues rather than downplaying them or sweeping them under the rug. That's another reason the Milwaukee threads are so active. We talk almost as much about the negative as we do the positive.
You're right, Milwaukee does have its share of issues to deal with. One of them is the high unemployment rate in the inner city. But there are now a couple of innovative and creative programs that help match up prospective job applicants with decent paying jobs through fast-track skills training. Here are a couple great articles from today's J/S that tell about these two success stories:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=543627
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=543626
The thing I love about these "developments" is that you have business leaders, community development leaders, and educational leaders working together to solve a serious problem, unemployment and a shortage of a skilled workforce. Great job Milwaukee. Keep it going.

By the way, hydrogen, are you a phish fan by chance?

Guilty as charged.

That picture by MilwaukeeMark is wild ! The shines, glitters and reflections
look fabulous! Nice City...!

Does Milwaukee have the most threads??

Baltimore is on it's 18th development news thread. I've told them before that they gab like a bunch of old ladies at a bridge party. Buffalo forumers are also prolific posters.

San Francisco-based chain to use Sydney Hih site
By TOM DAYKIN
tdaykin@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Dec. 20, 2006
Kimpton Hotels, known for its luxury boutique hotels in Chicago, New York and other cities, will operate a new hotel planned for Milwaukee's Park East area - which could greatly elevate the downtown hospitality market.

Kimpton was named operator for a 180-room hotel planned as part of a $104 million mixed-use development. That project, which includes condominiums, offices and shops, will be developed on the mostly vacant block bordered by N. Old World 3rd and N. 4th streets, and W. Juneau and W. McKinley avenues.

The hotel will incorporate the Sydney Hih building, which is located on the site, and the former Gipfel brewery, which local developer Robert Ruvin plans to move to the block and renovate.

Ruvin and Dallas-based Gatehouse Capital Corp. plan to begin construction on the mixed-use development by late 2007. The County Board agreed in September to sell the parcel to Ruvin and Gatehouse, which have since been conducting soil tests and lining up financing for the project.

Open by 2009
San Francisco-based Kimpton, which operates 43 hotels, plans to have the Milwaukee hotel open by late 2009, said Jim Alderman, senior vice president for acquisitions and development.

Alderman said Wednesday that the hotel, which is yet unnamed, will carry all of the Kimpton hallmarks: luxurious furnishings, an "intense" level of customer service and rates that occupy the upper end of the market. He said the average daily rate will likely be over $180.

Kimpton's hotels include three Chicago properties: Hotel Monaco, Hotel Burnham and Hotel Allegro. Alderman said Kimpton is expanding rapidly because of heavy demand from its customers who travel extensively, especially for business.

"We now are starting to extend our reach a little beyond the core cities," Alderman said.

San Francisco-based Kimpton has 10 hotels under construction, and 15 more projects - including the Milwaukee property - in the development pipeline.

High-end niche
Milwaukee, Alderman said, has plenty of hotel rooms but "not a lot of high-end boutique" rooms. He said Kimpton will fill that niche, and said other high-end operators are considering the downtown market.

Plans by Manpower Inc. to move its global headquarters from Glendale to downtown is among the positive developments that are drawing attention from high-end hotel operators, Alderman said. He also praised the downtown night life, and compared its restaurants and clubs to those in Chicago and Dallas.

"I was actually shocked to see how lively your night scene is in Milwaukee," Alderman said. "It's all building up to having a hotel match up with them."

Kimpton's commitment to the project "brings a whole new dynamic to downtown Milwaukee," said Greg Hanis, a hotel industry consultant based in Pewaukee.

"Wow! That's stunning," Hanis said upon hearing the news.

Kimpton is well known for running high-end hotels, said Hanis, who operates Hospitality Marketers Inc. He said a Kimpton in downtown Milwaukee would be "a leap" above the current high-end operators, which include the Pfister Hotel, Hotel Metro and Hyatt Regency Milwaukee.

Hanis said the Kimpton will market itself to corporate travelers drawn by such companies as Manpower, Rockwell Inc. and Harley-Davidson Inc. He said local businesses looking to impress clients will pay for their rooms at the Kimpton property.

20-story development
The hotel will be the centerpiece of the 20-story Ruvin/Gatehouse development. Gatehouse has developed other high-end hotels, including a Joule Hotel in Dallas that is operated by Kimpton.

"Kimpton is the first brand of many to be revealed for this project," said Marty Collins, Gatehouse chief executive officer, in a statement. Other brands, he said, will be tied to the project's ground-floor retail, restaurant, bar, fitness center and a "rooftop entertainment venue."

Kimpton's hotels tend to have different names in different cities. In New York, its properties include the Muse Hotel, and in Boston, it operates the Nine Zero Hotel.

Might the Milwaukee hotel by named for the Sydney Hih Building, or the former Gipfel brewery?

"We're not sure," Ruvin said. "But we promise it will be interesting."

Other projects
The Ruvin/Gatehouse project's preliminary plans include 70 condos, 55,000 square feet of offices and a 330-car parking structure.

It is among several big developments moving forward in the 64-acre Park East area, which includes 16 acres made available after the former Park East Freeway was razed.

The Common Council last week approved city financial assistance for The North End, a $175 million project with nearly 500 housing units planned for the site of the former Pfister & Vogel tannery, which will be demolished.

The council also approved funding for the planned $205 million transformation of the former Pabst brewery into housing, offices and shops. The Pabst site is technically outside the Park East area. But the redevelopment area's western border abuts the Pabst property.

Other projects include Park East Square, a plan for hotels, apartments and stores on two empty blocks bordered by N. Jefferson St., N. Broadway, E. Lyon St. and E. Ogden Ave.

From the Dec. 21, 2006 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

^^Sounds like good news to me! I'm not in the hospitality industry, nor know much about it, but it seems that for PE, the bar is being set high from the get go.

^^Sounds like good news to me! I'm not in the hospitality industry, nor know much about it, but it seems that for PE, the bar is being set high from the get go.

Its a great hotel chain and I have been hoping for one of their hotels here.. now if only we could get a W hotel :)

In other news...

Sales tax proposed for train line
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=544511

Poll about possible usage of the communter rail line: http://www2.jsonline.com/news/newspoll.asp?poll=6813
Right now 45% say they would "NEVER" use the rail line. Can't say I am suprised although it is unfortunate. Does anyone know what public perception of Minneapolis' rail system was before it was completed?


Weekend visitors could be a boost for Milwaukee
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=544497

i just wanted to reiterate my mad love for the Ruvin proposal in the PE.

great news on them landing what sounds like a tip-top hotel operator.

what a sight to behold this will be!

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1792_large.jpg

THURSDAY, Dec. 21, 2006, 11:45 a.m.
By Katherine M. Skiba

Washington - Milwaukee has beaten out Chicago and been named the host city for the commissioning of a new Navy warship next year.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/dec06/freedom_launch_200.jpg

Navy Secretary Donald C. Winter announced the Navy's decision today.

The commissioning of the Freedom likely will be next summer, a Navy official said.

It will be a major event since the ship is first in its class and is expected to draw top officials from the Department of Defense and the Navy. Events are expected to run several days.

The $300 million, high-tech vessel is being built at the Marinette Marine Corp. in Marinette, Wis.

"After a thorough analysis of the many factors involved in selecting a site, Secretary Winter decided to have Freedom commissioned in Milwaukee," said Lt. Cmdr. John T. Schofield, a spokesman for Winter.

"Freedom is being built in Wisconsin, and it is appropriate to commission the ship in that great state."

Officials including Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett and County Executive Scott Walker had been lobbying Winter to stage the commissioning off Veterans Park on Lake Michigan - while Chicagoans waged a campaign of their own. A consolation prize for Chicago: It's hoped the ship can pay a visit there before leaving for its home port of San Diego.

Freedom is a littoral combat ship, or LCS. The 377-foot ship takes its name from littorals, or coastal waters, and will be deployed along coasts and in shallow seas to combat threats posed by mines, submarines and surface ships.

At the commissioning, the vessel earns the designation as a United States Ship and becomes the USS Freedom. It's then part of the Navy's fleet, which now stands at 278 ships.


*****
I think this will be GREAT for the city...can't wait for next summer so I can check this out!

^^ :banana: :cheers:
That sounds awesome!!! I can't wait to see that next summer.. God I love summers in Milwaukee

Out of curiosity, why aren't any of you posting more pictures of Milwaukee in the favorite picture of your city thread?

^^ Plz post your pick of milwaukee here on favorit city pictures! That is my favorite of yours! http://www.flickr.com/photos/milwaukeemark/318249982/

I am excited that Ruvin landed a major hotel tenant for this spectacular project. This project would kick off the whole western edge of the Park East corridor in a big way.

I'm also happy we landed the Navy commissioning as well. I had no idea that Navy commissionings were such a big deal.

A little of topic but its a milwaukee company and a interesting article. Apparently from Seinfeld i have not seen the episode myself they are talking about but looks funny. Poles for sale....:cheers:

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/article/urn:newsml:tv.ap.org:20061221:festivus_poles__ER:1

"rooftop entertainment venue."

That sounds exciting to me! The only up-in-the-air entertainment we have now is blue in the pfister. I love having a good time 20 stories up! :)

i just wanted to reiterate my mad love for the Ruvin proposal in the PE.

great news on them landing what sounds like a tip-top hotel operator.

what a sight to behold this will be!

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1792_large.jpg

^ That might be as cool as anything proposed in Chicago right now (barring height, of course)

i just cant wait until the sydney hih is spruced up,
amazing how its languished for so long,
I really hate painted brick, I hope they spray wash that paint off,
the white and green color scheme is disgusting,

which makes me wonder what the HELL is going on with the beautiful schlitz bar building at north and humboldt.
another landlord who is failing his building, im sure he wants an exorbitant amount of rent for the retail space, yet hasnt put a dime into his building
with the same HORRIBlE white and green paint on BRICK.:ohno:

i just wanted to reiterate my mad love for the Ruvin proposal in the PE.

great news on them landing what sounds like a tip-top hotel operator.

what a sight to behold this will be!



Have you seen these renders (from JSonline)?

View from Public Plaza
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1794_large.jpg

View of green roof from typical condo unit
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/photographer/17/1797_large.jpg

I don't think this project has been metioned on this board yet, so I I'll give it a plug here. Its called Convent/Convenant Hill. I can't remember the exact name, but its on Ogden between Jefferson and Milwaukee Streets. Going past the site it looks like abount an 8-10 story building from the fence billboard. It looks like a tower crane is going up there now. Its not that excting because I think it is a retirement home expansion of the current site, but new buildings are new buildings, and it is new construction. It also will add some density to the park east area by Golds PnS.

Sorry no pics or links right now, but you can't miss it when you are in the area.

usbmfa you said it best "new buildings are new buildings"!

Milwaukee's suburban mall's are disasters to drive around. WOW. I can't believe I made it alive through brookfield square<== big mess! Did anyone use Grand Ave? I wonder how that mall was doing during christmas after the big bayshore development.

Well UWMJay, I was at both Mayfair and Southridge Malls today and almost had about 5 accidents, and the pedestrians are as bad as they are in Chicago when you're trying to turn on Michigan Ave. No compliments from me other than Milwaukee area malls are starting to get nicer, more upscale stores.

I managed to do all of my xmas shopping in the third ward. It was nice and easy and no trouble parking (we walked) at all!

usbmfa you said it best "new buildings are new buildings"!

Milwaukee's suburban mall's are disasters to drive around. WOW. I can't believe I made it alive through brookfield square<== big mess! Did anyone use Grand Ave? I wonder how that mall was doing during christmas after the big bayshore development.

I went to the Grand on Friday afternoon and it was a lot busier than usual. Not exactly packed, but bustling.

Went to Mayfair and southridge for my shopping, both were extremely busy. i was very surprised to see how busy southridge was, but i'm glad it was bustling.

On a SIDE NOTE:
I work at the "Pot" (Potawatomi Casino) and if you all haven't noticed one of the two big cranes went up this last week. The red crane which is up now is 200 ft and can lift loads of 7800 tons. The next which will go up in january will be 150 ft tall. They have been pounding pilings into the ground since sept or oct, which gets really annoying when ur trying to do paperwork. But the expansion will triple the size of the casino and put our slots at 3,000 and table games at 150-160. It will add three new resturants and underground valet parking, with a 6 story parking structure outside. There is talk of a hotel in the future, which would be a different phase of development but again its talk...

Yeah! Brewer fans just got a nice Christmas present yesterday for Christmas eve. Jeff Suppan agreed to terms on a 4 year contract!

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061224&content_id=1767623&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

Some east side reswident don't want a proposed 11 story condo...
Gokhman high-rise rankles neighbors
Developer plans 11-story condo on Downer Avenue
New Land Enterprises' $65 million plan to build an 11-story condominium tower and create 50,000 square feet of medical offices in Milwaukee's North Downer Avenue neighborhood is rankling homeowners. .....www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2006/12/25/story3.html?page=1&b=1167022800^1394121"

Some east side reswident don't want a proposed 11 story condo...
Gokhman high-rise rankles neighbors
Developer plans 11-story condo on Downer Avenue
New Land Enterprises' $65 million plan to build an 11-story condominium tower and create 50,000 square feet of medical offices in Milwaukee's North Downer Avenue neighborhood is rankling homeowners. .....www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2006/12/25/story3.html?page=1&b=1167022800^1394121"

"This article is for Paid Print Subscribers ONLY." :(

A few shots I took this weekend. No big, fancy skyline shots, sorry--didn't have the time or the weather.

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6452/facadesnd6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3779/bridgete2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8756/colorfulwalluk0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4356/thirdwardsm7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Can anyone give me a name and short history on this old factory?
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/8071/warehousecw4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

hydrogen, those pictures are freaking AWESOME. The first one looks like something straight out of New Orleans (although I've never been there) and the second one is my favorite picture I've ever seen of the marsupial bridge. YES!!

I'm not sure where that factory is... Is it the Coke and Gas factory in the fifth ward?

hydrogen, those pictures are freaking AWESOME. The first one looks like something straight out of New Orleans (although I've never been there) and the second one is my favorite picture I've ever seen of the marsupial bridge. YES!!

I'm not sure where that factory is... Is it the Coke and Gas factory in the fifth ward?

Thanks a lot, Mark. I was staying with a few friends who live on Pearson and stumbled out of their place Saturday afternoon hungover but intrigued by my surroundings. That marsupial bridge is cool. I had my first chance to soak up all of those new condos right on the river. I spent a lot of time driving around Milwaukee, actually. And I'm so impressed with the way the city is tightening up its loose ends in terms of urban continuity. So many new condos going up it's crazy.

Can anyone give me a name and short history on this old factory?

National Warehouse...note the faded name painted on the bricks at the top of the building.

That 1st pic is awesome, one of Milwaukee st which is quickly becoming Milwaukee's hottest nightclub block. My first night home from college I drove through downtown and this block was jumping, despite the 40 degree weather. Dwyane Wade through a party at tangerine, on this block, a few weeks ago. On this single block, two new restaurants in the last year, a new nightclub, hotel metro, tangerine, cubanitas, etc, this is got to be the hottest nightlife block in the city.

National Warehouse...note the faded name painted on the bricks at the top of the building.

I did see the name in paint, but wondered if the name had since changed. Do you know anything in terms of what it was used for?

Do you know anything in terms of what it was used for?

A warehouse.

JS article on parks...

Study urges higher park fees

Milwaukee County's cash-starved park system charges user fees that are significantly lower than those collected by many parks and recreation departments in Wisconsin and around the country, according to a new study.

Pool fees are far below market prices, athletic teams are allowed unlimited use for a flat fee, and premier park settings on the lake and downtown are given over to major special events but generate too little revenue, the study says.

rest of article: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=545625

Boston-based Colliers International’s third quarter report indicates what many Milwaukee office space brokers have been reporting anecdotally: the downtown Milwaukee office market is soft. According to the Colliers International report, the downtown office vacancy rate increased from 11.8 percent in the second quarter to 18.4 percent in the third quarter.

The move of Blue Cross Blue Shield’s offices from downtown Milwaukee to Summit Place in West Allis, may have contributed to the large drop in downtown’s office vacancy rate in the report.

For class A downtown office space, the vacancy rate increased from 10.6 percent in the second quarter to 12.9 percent in the third quarter, according to the Colliers report.

The region’s office space as a whole fared better, with the vacancy rate dipping a bit from 11.4 percent in the second quarter, to 10.6 percent in the third quarter, according to the report.

The Milwaukee region’s total office space vacancy was lower than the national average, and the downtown class A vacancy rate was only slightly higher than the national average. The nation’s office vacancy rate was 13.3 percent in the third quarter, and the nation’s downtown class A office space vacancy rate was 11.2 percent, according to the report.

For industrial space, the Milwaukee area had a 7.6 percent vacancy rate in the third quarter, up a tad from the 7.5 percent vacancy rate in the second quarter, according to the report. The national industrial space vacancy rate was 8.24 percent in the third quarter, according to the report.


“Milwaukee is still holding its own with regard to vacancy and lease rates,” said James T. Barry III, president and chief executive officer of Colliers Barry, the Milwaukee affiliate of Colliers International. “We believe that the Milwaukee market will continue to improve steadily relative to other markets due to the fact that we have very little oversupply and very little speculative product in either industrial or office real estate markets. In addition, as land and construction costs continue to rise, lease rates and sale prices will strengthen, while vacancy rates should stay in check. In sum, we have relatively healthy industrial and office real estate markets in southeastern Wisconsin that should see steady improvement.”


--------

Let's hope things improve once the mchange is completed

JS article on parks...

Study urges higher park fees

Milwaukee County's cash-starved park system charges user fees that are significantly lower than those collected by many parks and recreation departments in Wisconsin and around the country, according to a new study.

Pool fees are far below market prices, athletic teams are allowed unlimited use for a flat fee, and premier park settings on the lake and downtown are given over to major special events but generate too little revenue, the study says.

rest of article: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=545625

Isn't the idea of the park system to provide access for everyone, regardless of income? Shouldn't it therefor be cheap (or even free) to use the parks and swimming pools, etc. to ensure everyone has access to them?

On a different note:

Does anyone know what's happening with the proposed High Speed Rail to Madison? I was looking at the Midwest HSR Initative website and it said that the stretch from Chicago to Madison via Milwaukee was under construction but I've never heard anything else about it.

I've never heard of anything regarding construction or progress... As far as I know it's just wishful thinking.

Does anyone know what's happening with the proposed High Speed Rail to Madison?

There's no money, so nothing is happening with rail of any speed to Madison right now other than studies for the proposal.

I was looking at the Midwest HSR Initative website and it said that the stretch from Chicago to Madison via Milwaukee was under construction but I've never heard anything else about it.

Nope; you've been misinformed.

On a positive note: the MILWAUKEE bucks won 5 straight. going for 6 tonight @ memphis.

Edit: 112-96 win brings the winning streak to 6.

^^ Sure, that's awesome but they're still in last place in the division...

Edit: I don't mean to sound like a pessimist... just putting the winning streak into perspective. :)

Here's a new one!

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4084/img00263yu2.jpg

^^

Wow, very nicely done.

Sweet-ass pic Mark! I wish the Northwestern building had its lights on year-round.

Here's an entertaining list found online.. I found it amusing.

Mattel recently announced the release of Limited-Edition Barbie dolls for the Milwaukee market:

Galleria Barbie:
This princess Barbie is only sold in Elm Grove. She comes with an assortment of Kate Spade handbags, a Lexus SUV, a longhaired foreign dog named Honey, and a cookie-cutter house. Available with or without tummy tuck and face lift. Note: Workaholic Ken sold only in conjunction with "augmented" version.

Brookfield Barbie:
This modern-day homemaker Barbie is available with Ford Windstar minivan and matching velour gym outfit. She gets lost easily and has no full time occupation or secondary education. Traffic-jamming cell phone sold separately.

Marquette Barbie:
This recently paroled Barbie comes with a 9 mm handgun, a Chevy with dark tinted windows, and a meth lab kit. This model is only available after dark and can only be paid for in cash, preferably small, untraceable bills, unless you are a cop, then we don't know what the hell you are talking about.

The Oak Creek Barbie:
This yuppie Barbie comes with your choice of BMW convertible or Hummer H2. Included is her own Starbucks cup, credit card, and country club membership. Also available for this set are Shallow Ken and Private School Skipper. You won't be able to afford any of them.

UWM Barbie:
Short, highly tanned and ready to land a husband, we mean get an education. Comes with standard issue shorts with "UWM" printed largely on the butt. Also comes wearing latest "themed" sorority party T-shirt, hair in pony tail and a gaggle of similar looking friends, each carrying the latest in "knock off" Kate Spade bags. Honda Civic, undecided major and drunken
backward hat Frat Ken sold separately.

West Allis Barbie:
This pale model comes dressed in her own Wrangler jeans two sizes too small, a NASCAR shirt, and Tweety Bird tattoo on her shoulder. She has a six-pack of Coors Light and a Hank Williams, Jr. CD set. She can spit over 5 feet and kick mullet-haired Ken's butt when she is drunk. Purchase her pickup truck separately and get a confederate flag bumper sticker absolutely free.

River Hills Barbie:
This collagen injected, rhino-plastic Barbie wears a leopard print spandex outfit and drinks cosmopolitans while entertaining friends on her boat. Percocet prescription available.

South Milwaukee Barbie:
This tobacco chewing, brassy-haired Barbie has a pair of her own high-heeled sandals with one broken heel from the time she chased Beer-Gut Ken out of Cudahy Barbie's (discontinued) house. Her ensemble includes low-rise acid-washed jeans, fake fingernails, and a see-through halter-top. Also available with a mobile home.

Riverwest Barbie:
This slacker Barbie looks an awful lot like Brookfield Barbie without a shower. Comes with a pack of clove cigarettes and a sixer of PBR. There are accessory packages with various assortments of body piercings and tattoos available, but they must be purchased separately because, like, she doesn't have a job.

Bayview Barbie:
This doll is made of actual tofu. She has long straight faded blue hair, archless feet, hairy armpits, no makeup, and Birkenstocks with white socks. She prefers that you call her "Willow." She does not want or need a Ken doll, but if you purchase two Bayview Barbies, and the optional Subaru wagon, you get a rainbow flag sticker for free.

Northside Barbie:
This Barbie now comes with a stroller and infant doll. Optional accessories include a GED and bus pass. Gangsta Ken and his '79 Caddy were available, but are now very difficult to find since the addition of the infant.

Southside Barbie:
This Spanish-speaking-only Barbie comes with a 1984 Toyota with expired temporary plates and three baby Skippers in the back seat, but no car seats. The optional Ken doll comes with a cowboy hat, shovel and work gloves. Ken comes with his own 1979 Ford pickup with a Telemundo bumper sticker, tinted windows, and Our Lady of Guadalupe rear window stickers. Truck is painted primer gray, but wheels and rims are not available. Comes with cement blocks. Green cards are not available for Southside Barbie! or Ken.

East Side Barbie/ Ken:
This versatile doll can be easily converted from Barbie to Ken by simply adding or subtracting the multiple "snap-on" parts.

Wow, that is awesome how u captured those colors in that pic. GREAT JOB!

Here's a new one!
Oh yes, that's a nice one! Looks like a nuclear meltdown

Sweet pic of the city MM. Do you think you can get some new pics of UCT. I haven't been over there in a while to see how it's coming along. Judging from that pic, are they EVER gonna light up the crown??? Hope so...:)

That UWM one is spot on.

Here's another I thought you'd enjoy... no comments necessary. :)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/336894189_059127b190_o.jpg

About updated UCT pictures though... I haven't had a chance to get down there in the past couple of weeks but I assure you that nothing has really changed since my last update. They have, however, finished installing all the windows in the building. The crown is still under construction and no where near complete so lighting it up is - for now - out of the question.

If someone has some photos of the milwaukee skyline that could post on here, that would be great. i wanna do some photoshopping and throw some towers in there and repost it on here. let me know...

Here's another I thought you'd enjoy... no comments necessary. :)

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5563/thegreencityht5.jpg

About updated UCT pictures though... I haven't had a chance to get down there in the past couple of weeks but I assure you that nothing has really changed since my last update. They have, however, finished installing all the windows in the building. The crown is still under construction and no where near complete so lighting it up is - for now - out of the question.

Another sweet pic! But thanks for the UCT update MM. I wish they'd hurry up with the crown. Its gonna look awesome coming home from the south on the freeway once it's done! Just like icing on the cake.

Please forgive me for being too lazy to search the last thread, but:

What's with the construction on Swan Blvd just south of Hoyt Park?

djcody, just go to my flickr page and snoop around. I'm sure you'll find some shots in there that'll suit your needs.

**An interesting article I thought I'd share.**

Town want to incorporate to control borders
By DON BEHM
dbehm@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Dec. 28, 2006

Richfield - Residents of the state's third most populous town say they should be allowed to shake off the image of townsfolk and become villagers.

Town Administrator Toby Cotter has handed the state Incorporation Review Board a check for $20,000 to pay for its consideration of the town's request to become a village.

The Washington County community is betting both that fee and an additional $30,000 in consultant and legal expenses that the state will agree that this entire 36-square-mile community with 11,385 residents is a lot more village than town today.

The Richfield request will be the review board's maiden voyage. It was established by the Legislature to advise the Department of Administration whether requests should be granted, dismissed or resubmitted with new boundaries.

The Administration Department rejected the last two incorporation petitions that went before it.

This month, the state told Ledgeview in Brown County that too much of the eastern half of the town was rural with little prospect of substantial development within three years, and that it lacked the compactness and homogeneity needed for a village.

In 2005, the Administration Department told Caledonia, in Racine County, that it was not homogeneous and, for that reason, recommended that it be split into a village on the east and a town on the west. Caledonia, then the state's most populous town, appealed to the Legislature. It was given authority in the 2005-'07 budget bill to hold an incorporation referendum, and Caledonia is now a village.

Article continued here... http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=547073

Hearing to be Held 1/9 on Funding for Holton St. Commercial District enhancement
Contributed by Michael S. D'Amato, 3rd District Alderman
Thursday, 28 December 2006
You are invited to attend a hearing on January 9. 2007 at 1:30PM in Room 301-B at City Hall at the request of the chair of the Common Council's Community and Economic Development Committee. The hearing concerns Resolution 061110 which authorizes the transfer and expenditure of $350,000 from the Neighborhood Commercial District Street Improvement Fund for the Holton Street Commercial District Enhancement Project.

This meeting will be webcast live at www.milwaukee/gov/channel25.

(Presumably it will also be live and subsequently rebroadcasted on Channel 25.)
Write Comment (0 Comments)






Brophy Shaming Sign Damaged at 2600 N. Booth St. Tuesday Night
Contributed by Chris Johns
Thursday, 28 December 2006
From JSOnline's Daywatch: Vandals damage shaming sign, Landlord owes city $108,311 in violations (by Tom Held, posted to Daywatch Dec. 27, 2006)

A sign intended to shame a longtime nemesis of Milwaukee building code enforcers was torn in half overnight by vandals who snatched away a section containing the phone number of the property owner and an admonition against damaging the sign.

http://www.city.milwaukee.gov/Webcastingarchives948.htm

I was browsing the city channel website when I found something interesing. If you go to the Community & Economic Development Committe archives and then Nov. 28 and scroll through the video about 18 min, there's an interesting presentation by the Public Policy Forum researcher who did the report criticizing the city's economic development plan (or lack thereof). It's a pretty enlightening presentation.

I was @ Mayfair the other night with my friend and bought a new digital camera. I took some shots from the new Best Buy parking lot across the street from the mall just to see how it works, and because I never saw this area of town so quiet as it was that night.
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/IMG_0021.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/IMG_0022.jpg

I know it doesn't have anything to do with skyscrapers but I love the new design of Best Buy
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/IMG_0025.jpg

I bought the camera primarily to start making albums of cities I visit, and also maybe to post some on here. I maybe lack talent but that's up to you guys!

Happy New Year!

Congrats on the new camera brewcity! Gotta love new toys.. have fun with it! I'm looking forward to seeing your photos from various cities...

On a somewhat related note, here's a new picture from tonights photo adventure:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/6494/emptydocksjo6.jpg

that picture should be sent to all the people against tall buildings in milwaukee. And also to everyone that thinks milwaukee is a dying rust belt city. ----basically to all the anti-milw. people.

As requested, here are some updated pictures of University Club Tower:

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5466/img0184sb1.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6052/img01761rk0.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3888/img01781zn8.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/4026/img01821lf0.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1749/img01811lg7.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3433/img01931tw8.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1824/img02001oy5.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3344/img01991tm8.jpg

Here are some pictures of the ongoing renovation of city hall:

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7079/img02171xy4.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6110/img02101dr6.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/8703/img02201bi5.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/846/img02111br3.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/935/img02131nz6.jpg

City Hall Christmas Tree:
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1904/img02231se1.jpg

And for those of you who've never been inside - here's looking up:
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/977/img02221ol5.jpg

Why is it taking so long to finish the UCT?

If someone has some photos of the milwaukee skyline that could post on here, that would be great. i wanna do some photoshopping and throw some towers in there and repost it on here. let me know...

Here's a thread I made in August:

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=387683&highlight=tourists+milwaukee

Nice photos as always Mark. I haven't been around the board for awhile but it looks like Madison and Milwaukee are trucking along as usual. It's good to see Milwaukee growing and you always provide us with interesting views of the city.

You should post those 3 simple and straight forward night time skyline shots from the breakwater wall I requested, they turned out very good. :)

You should post those 3 simple and straight forward night time skyline shots from the breakwater wall I requested, they turned out very good. :)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2475/img01631yn9.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2796/img01661nc9.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5722/img01721em4.jpg

SkyscraperCity banner possibility?
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3482/img01632zu3.jpg

damn those are amazing.. that banner would kick ass

Holy crap those are amazing, Mark. The silhouette in the foreground is sumptuous.

Here's the banner version, re-sized to the required 719 x 123. Mark, if you're okay with this being submitted as a banner, then I'll submit it.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8313/bannerversionid7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Holy crap those are amazing, Mark. The silhouette in the foreground is sumptuous.

Here's the banner version, re-sized to the required 719 x 123. Mark, if you're okay with this being submitted as a banner, then I'll submit it.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8313/bannerversionid7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Perfect! Thanks!

^Okay, it's been submitted. It could take a little while for it to show up, though, because Jan gets tons of banner submissions.

Awesome pics as usual MM! UCT is coming along really well, and I'm loving the pics of the city at night from breakwater. Just think if we could get LPT in that shot too. OOOOWEEE!:)

Great News: Jan said he'll put the banner up January 6th. Keep an eye out!!

:dance:

Sweet! Nice work!

Hell yes!

Milwaukee's in the big leagues now! WOO!

Well done :)

Great News: Jan said he'll put the banner up January 6th. Keep an eye out!!


January 6 is too early. Ask Jan to postpone using the banner until January 31, a much more significant date for Milwaukee...it's 161st birthday.

January 6 is too early. Ask Jan to postpone using the banner until January 31, a much more significant date for Milwaukee...it's 161st birthday.

Okay, it's been taken care of.

:applause: Thanks hydrogen!

Good news for another local company from JSonline http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=548346

Industrial packager wraps up deal for Ohio competitor.

Bentley World-Packaging Ltd., which has shown strong internal growth the last few years, completed an acquisition Tuesday that will boost its sales by 50% and take it into new markets.

The firm closed on the purchase of Overseas Packing LLC, a 70-employee export packaging company in Walton Hills, Ohio, near Cleveland.

Alternative school might get new digs - Plan would renovate north side building

Posted: Jan. 3, 2007
A former industrial building on Milwaukee's north side would be converted into the new home for an alternative school, creating a $4.5 million investment for the central city, under plans disclosed Wednesday.

The long-vacant building at 225 W. Capitol Drive is being sold by the city Redevelopment Authority to an investors group created by Philip Katz Project Development LLC and Williams Development Corp.

Entire story http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=549105

http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7872/uctsalesprogressionjanuwy9.jpg

Today's (1/5/2007) Business Journal carries a front-page story on Icon Development's $130 million proposal to build a 20-story condo, medical office complex, with 240-room hotel and retail space on the south side of W. Burleigh St., just east of Hwy. 45 (114 St.) in Tosa. Artist's conception looks pretty interesting. Plan seems to fit with Tosa's overall development objectives for that area.

Today's (1/5/2007) Business Journal carries a front-page story on Icon Development's $130 million proposal to build a 20-story condo, medical office complex, with 240-room hotel and retail space on the south side of W. Burleigh St., just east of Hwy. 45 (114 St.) in Tosa. Artist's conception looks pretty interesting. Plan seems to fit with Tosa's overall development objectives for that area.

Do you by any chances have any pics of the renderings?? I heard about this today but didn't see any pictures, and I'm also not a Business Journal print subscriber.

Also today the Chicago Tribune has an article talking about the airline market there and here at Milwaukee's Mitchell Int'l, with them saying that JetBlue might begin adding service in Milwaukee this year, and questioning the success of AirTran's bid on Midwest. The article can be found here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0701050214jan05,0,3801941.story?coll=chi-business-hed

Do you by any chances have any pics of the renderings?? I heard about this today but didn't see any pictures, and I'm also not a Business Journal print subscriber.

Also today the Chicago Tribune has an article talking about the airline market there and here at Milwaukee's Mitchell Int'l, with them saying that JetBlue might begin adding service in Milwaukee this year, and questioning the success of AirTran's bid on Midwest. The article can be found here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0701050214jan05,0,3801941.story?coll=chi-business-hed

Sorry, I made a jpeg of the rendering but don't have a website to post it to (but I can e-mail it to somebody who does). The 20-story condo is shown at the northeast corner of the parcel, with a 10-story hotel to the west, bordering Burleigh. Behind that is a structure that is probably the medical arts bldg., perhaps with 1st-floor retail space. Another structure on the south border of the parcel would be used for parking and maybe more retail. The Business Journal hasn't yet posted the article to its website, but it should be ther sometime this afternoon.

Sorry, I made a jpeg of the rendering but don't have a website to post it to.

http://imageshack.us/

That, in my opinion, is really impressive. If Wauwatosa goes through with this, they'll be creating their own "downtown" of sorts, and Milwaukee will begin to have a "downtown away from downtown", kinda like what Schaumburg/Rosemont/O'Hare is to Chicago. I'm beginning to wonder if that 20-story condo tower will be higher than the US Bank and Bank Mutual Towers at Mayfair. I don't know their heights, but either way this development, along with the 8-story Crowne Plaza Hotel will add more skyline to that area if you're on Mayfair Rd. and Bluemound Rd, on top of that hill overlooking the area.

http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iconhh5.jpghttp://imageshack.us/

Thanks, M-Mark. Let's see if this works ...

http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iconhh5.jpg

^I re-uploaded it for you and fixed it. In the future, when you host stuff on imageshack, make sure to copy and paste the info from the "Hotlink for forums" field.

I don't know if its just my computer - its showing an X where the pic was supposed to be. But the link works great.

Here's the development that sideliner is talking about.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/iconwauwatosa.jpg

Thanks for finding a picture and letting us know!

OK; thanks.

Nice project...

And fantastic article about Mitchell.. The merging of Milwaukee and Chicago can only bring better things. (mostly for Milwaukee.. but we can be greedy)

Yes, that was a good article. But the article mentioned that only 5% of the possible northern Illinois flying market is selecting Mitchell verses O'Hare. That could be a whole lot better.

Maybe with more intensive marketing by Mitchell in northern Illinois along with having a discount carrier like JetBlue or Southwest at Mitchell, that percentage should increase significantly.

Wow! Nice Icon Development project. I like it.

Yes, that was a good article. But the article mentioned that only 5% of the possible northern Illinois flying market is selecting Mitchell verses O'Hare. That could be a whole lot better.

Maybe with more intensive marketing by Mitchell in northern Illinois along with having a discount carrier like JetBlue or Southwest at Mitchell, that percentage should increase significantly.

Wow! Nice Icon Development project. I like it.

The nice thing is the article acknowledges Mitchell as an alternate to O'hare and includes it in the Chicago market.. This article might open a lot of eyes to the airport's for the most part stress free travel. The potential is there.. just hope the airport can further work on stealing a few travellers away from O'hare. The discount carriers will definately help out Mitchell IMO.

The only thing I find extremely surprising is that the Chicago Tribune seems to be extremely supportive of Midwest Airlines, more-so in that one article alone than in any article that the Journal Sentinel did since the merger was being talked about. I'm disgusted at the way the JS handled this subject, most of the articles it posted, I believe, were very pro-Air Tran and the whole "sooner or later its gonna happen" belief was strongly imposed, and I add that the JS makes everyone believe that the stockholders are more open for anyone as long as they get money, while the Tribune puts Midwest's stockholders as "one of the most loyal" in business. Who's reporting for who's city?

The nice thing is the article acknowledges Mitchell as an alternate to O'hare and includes it in the Chicago market.. This article might open a lot of eyes to the airport's for the most part stress free travel. The potential is there.. just hope the airport can further work on stealing a few travellers away from O'hare. The discount carriers will definately help out Mitchell IMO.You are right exit_320. You bring up an excellent point. This particular article in the Tribune probably did more to enhance Mitchell's notoriety than any marketing plan ever hope to accomplish.

The only thing I find extremely surprising is that the Chicago Tribune seems to be extremely supportive of Midwest Airlines, more-so in that one article alone than in any article that the Journal Sentinel did since the merger was being talked about. I'm disgusted at the way the JS handled this subject, most of the articles it posted, I believe, were very pro-Air Tran and the whole "sooner or later its gonna happen" belief was strongly imposed, and I add that the JS makes everyone believe that the stockholders are more open for anyone as long as they get money, while the Tribune puts Midwest's stockholders as "one of the most loyal" in business. Who's reporting for who's city?Yup. The JS seems enamored with the spin that the CEO of AirTrans is spewing.

I'm glad that I wasn't the only one who noticed the negativity of the JS concerning Midwest. And, to top off the night - another major Milwaukee area mall is going through a makeover!

JS Article here: http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=549857

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/brookfieldsquaremain.jpg

As a former resident of Wauwatosa (my parents still live on Lefeber and Meinecke), I feel ambivalent about the Icon development. I'm happy for Tosa, but also resentful that a solid project will be built in a suburb instead of the city. Suburbs run away from the problems of a city, yet they are continually rewarded for doing so. It makes me ill at times.

As a former resident of Wauwatosa (my parents still live on Lefeber and Meinecke), I feel ambivalent about the Icon development. I'm happy for Tosa, but also resentful that a solid project will be built in a suburb instead of the city. Suburbs run away from the problems of a city, yet they are continually rewarded for doing so. It makes me ill at times.

Well Hydrogen, the city right now has a ton of its own projects happening downtown. At least we all can give Milwaukee some credit this past year of at least taking new projects under its arm and approving a ton of new developments in and around downtown.

At least with the earlier posts today, it shows that the suburbs of the city are just as strong as Milwaukee, which can only be an excellent factor in growth and development all around.

But I definitely do agree with you on the point that suburban growth generally goes a lot easier and faster *from planning to construction* than the city's.

This mega proposal for Tosa does nothing for me. More suburban vanilla sort of stuff. Good for Tosa if they get this done, but I could care less, really. I don't think more development in this area will help until the congestion on Hwy 45 and Mayfair Rd. is dealt with. It's already a zoo (pun intended) traveling on 45 from Capitol Dr. to the Zoo Interchange. Yeah, and this would help - especially at the Burleigh exit/entrance ramps!

The Milwaukee Banner is up!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!:cheers: :cheers:

The Milwaukee Banner is up!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!:cheers: :cheers:

LOL wow, I'm an idiot...I didn't even notice(not enough coffee yet I guess). Nice work again MMark!!

The Milwaukee Banner is up!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!:cheers: :cheers:
Yeah looks great but I thought they decided to show it on Jan. 31st for Milwaukee's birthday?

They either forgot the I in Milwaukee or the I and L are so close together it just looks like a bolded L.

Haha, I don't really mind that it's posted today. I think it's awesome either way. About the I and the L? Yes, there are two separate letters. It's just the font they use.. I've noticed that in other city names as well when they were the banner. Oh well! :)

Thanks again hydrogen. This is a great day for Milwaukee urban development nerds.

Milwaukee is well on its way to becoming a bi-polar "two Downtown" metropolitan area, with the orginal downtown as the center of banking, culture, and finance, and Wauwatosa emerging as a "second Downtown" of major businesses (GE Healthcare) and retail. If these two "Downtowns" could be linked with some kind of viable rail transit the whole region would benefit.

If these two "Downtowns" could be linked with some kind of viable rail transit the whole region would benefit.
The Amtrak line goes right past there somewhere. It wouldn't be too difficult to run the KRM out there once its established.

That banner is sick. Much better than anything i have seen recently.:cheers:

does anyone think that some wauwatosa residents might not want this "big" tower there, sometimes suburban communities don't like highrises they may think that makes them too urban......... it would be nice to see some other renderings tho

does anyone think that some wauwatosa residents might not want this "big" tower there, sometimes suburban communities don't like highrises they may think that makes them too urban......... it would be nice to see some other renderings tho

I was thinking about the same thing myself, and I came to the conclusion that if they do, I wouldn't understand why.

Across the street, Wauwatosa is tearing down the old Roundy's and Kohl's Food Stores warehouses, and replacing them with condos, offices, and high tech industry. That area is about I would say 7-10x bigger than the proposal that we have been talking about for the past day or so. On its west side is Hwy 45, which Skyking pointed out can be congested at times because of Mayfair traffic down a ways. South of the development is just more warehouses and industry - there are no homes anywhere near this proposal!

Also, its along Burleigh, a major street that's already 4 lanes and could always be enlarged, and very close to Mayfair Rd. And I'll also say that if the people of Wauwatosa didn't like the "urban" feel they would have turned down anything of that size in the past, such as the Mayfair towers, the Radisson Hotel, the Haritage House building, and a ton of other office buildings along Mayfair Rd.

I truly do love this proposal and I hope it does go through.

Not only is that banner sick, it's an actual photo as opposed to a "collage" of images that most cities have. Way to go.

I was thinking about the same thing myself, and I came to the conclusion that if they do, I wouldn't understand why.

Across the street, Wauwatosa is tearing down the old Roundy's and Kohl's Food Stores warehouses, and replacing them with condos, offices, and high tech industry. That area is about I would say 7-10x bigger than the proposal that we have been talking about for the past day or so. On its west side is Hwy 45, which Skyking pointed out can be congested at times because of Mayfair traffic down a ways. South of the development is just more warehouses and industry - there are no homes anywhere near this proposal!

Also, its along Burleigh, a major street that's already 4 lanes and could always be enlarged, and very close to Mayfair Rd. And I'll also say that if the people of Wauwatosa didn't like the "urban" feel they would have turned down anything of that size in the past, such as the Mayfair towers, the Radisson Hotel, the Haritage House building, and a ton of other office buildings along Mayfair Rd.

I truly do love this proposal and I hope it does go through.


yawn...wake me when it's done - maybe I'll care then (not!).

Sorry about the banner going up early, guys. I was told it'd be up the 31st. It still looks great, though.

:cheers:

Does anyone know if the Firstar Building has an observation deck anymore? Are there any buildings other than the Polaris where you can get a view from the top of a tall building??????

^It hasn't been called the Firstar building in a long time, actually. It's now the US Bank Center. To my best of my knowledge, there is no public observation area. Other than Polaris at the Hyatt, there is also Blu at the top of the Pfister. I've been to both Polaris and Blu, and I prefer the views and atmosphere of Blu.

yawn...wake me when it's done - maybe I'll care then (not!).

Actually I wasn't ever planning on waking you up to begin with - I was responding to a different person with the quote you used, and when I brought up your name it was to agree with you on the point that US 45 does get quite congested at times during the daytime because of Mayfair traffic.

Obviously you feel that everything that goes with high-rises must be built downtown at this moment, and I respect that opinion. But if all you're going to give now is rude, snippy comments well you can keep that to yourself.

Oh, and if you claim that the congestion is the only thing *at least the main thing* that must be cleaned up before it can be developed, well then I thank God Chicago didn't follow that logic, because most likely it still would have been all 1-4 story buildings throughout the suburban landscape. If this Wauwatosa project increases traffic, then I look forward to seeing you next to me on the freeway! I'll beep ya!!

Actually I wasn't ever planning on waking you up to begin with - I was responding to a different person with the quote you used, and when I brought up your name it was to agree with you on the point that US 45 does get quite congested at times during the daytime because of Mayfair traffic.

Obviously you feel that everything that goes with high-rises must be built downtown at this moment, and I respect that opinion. But if all you're going to give now is rude, snippy comments well you can keep that to yourself.

Oh, and if you claim that the congestion is the only thing *at least the main thing* that must be cleaned up before it can be developed, well then I thank God Chicago didn't follow that logic, because most likely it still would have been all 1-4 story buildings throughout the suburban landscape. If this Wauwatosa project increases traffic, then I look forward to seeing you next to me on the freeway! I'll beep ya!!


Please tell me you're not comparing Milwaukee to Chicago...in any way, shape or form. That's like comparing Milwaukee and Sheboygan. Chicago should never even be used in the same sentence with Milwaukee...let alone, Wauwatosa!

Let's all remember that Chicago at one time was the size of Milwaukee, and had suburbs like Wauwatosa. Can I compare Milwaukee and Chicago in the present? Absolutely not. But in the past the residents of the Windy City had to make key decisions and move forward developments just as we are doing today.

Let's all remember that Chicago at one time was the size of Milwaukee, and had suburbs like Wauwatosa. Can I compare Milwaukee and Chicago in the present? Absolutely not. But in the past the residents of the Windy City had to make key decisions and move forward developments just as we are doing today.
Yes but that was a different time. Then Chicago was growing very fast and right now Milwaukee is stagnant if not losing pop.

Sorry about the banner going up early, guys. I was told it'd be up the 31st. It still looks great, though.

:cheers:No problem, I'm glad I got to see it! Yes, it decorated the forum very nicely.
Thanks to MilwaukeeMark for the pic!

Someone please contact this local site and let them know that the banner they are using is not Milwaukee's lakefront. They should be using the new one that MilwaukeeMark just placed as a banner. If you have not reviewed this webcam site of Milwaukee's lakefront, do so. It is the best!

http://www.lakefrontcam.com/

Someone please contact this local site and let them know that the banner they are using is not Milwaukee's lakefront. They should be using the new one that MilwaukeeMark just placed as a banner. If you have not reviewed this webcam site of Milwaukee's lakefront, do so. It is the best!

http://www.lakefrontcam.com/
True, that skyline is Baltimore's. MilwaukeeMarks banner would work perfect for that site though

Never understood why they have a banner of Baltimore up there

Someone please contact this local site and let them know that the banner they are using is not Milwaukee's lakefront. They should be using the new one that MilwaukeeMark just placed as a banner. If you have not reviewed this webcam site of Milwaukee's lakefront, do so. It is the best!

http://www.lakefrontcam.com/

this issue already came up on here this past spring. I PMed the admin for that site on the forum in regards to the banner back then and this was his response:

Hello-

It's the closest that we have found to what we were looking for.

Thanks,

Mike
LakefrontCam.Com

kind of a cop out if you ask me... :\

I'm going to update Emporis tonight with some new photos of First Place on the River and River Renaissance... thought I'd give you a sneak peek:

First Place on the River
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1897/img06011ty7.jpg

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7778/img06101cp8.jpg

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7619/img05951lm7.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5797/img06081fg7.jpg


River Renaissance
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9131/img06131mg9.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/374/img06382uy8.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1885/img06111nk5.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3051/img06401je1.jpg


And for kicks, here's a view of the back side of UCT under construction. It was as close as I could get from the third ward with my telephoto lens...
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/2205/img06231ez4.jpg

the photos look great! Looks like RR is getting close to topping out. Plus, i just read an article in the Journal about Chicago and Milwaukee's metros growing together and how the need for rail is an issue. Great article btw...

Ooh, great pics Mark. I just drove north on 1st street earlier this evening and all the construction looks great. I love the angles of First Place that are visible when traveling north on 1st right next to the new Vetter Denk place.
Speaking of, what's the time table on that building? It seemed to take months just to build the elevator shaft.

Germania Building downtown sold
Downtown Milwaukee's historic Germania Building has been sold for just over $4 million to a local investors group.

Germania Group LLC, led by Santino "Sonny" Bando, bought the eight-story, 90,000-square-foot building from an investment trust based in suburban Chicago, Bando said today.

The Germania Building, 135 W. Wells St., was built in 1896 by George Brumder to house his Germania Publishing Co., which was then the largest publisher of German-language newspapers in the United States



also.....
I was wondering what people thought about Nan Hegerty's retirement. Personally I think shes jus retiring because of the problems she couldnt solve. murders, and violent crimes were up last year........

Frankly, I don't think it would have mattered who was Milwaukee's police chief. The murders and violent crimes still would have increased in numbers. There are two officers stationed daily at Bradley Tech High School, and a big fight broke out there today regardless.

Good point, but I think this city needs to move a little deeper as to who's to blame for these increases. Milwaukee needs to find some way to get a better educational system in place, to try harder to keep kids in school and thinking of better things in life. No one in the media ever mentions the school system as a possible reason for these increases....just police failing to do its job. Crime is a battle that needs to be fought on multiple subjects.

Parents in Milwaukee just need their asses kicked

Well part of the problem with MPS is that more of Milwaukee's money goes to the suburbs as part of shared revenues than is returned and apparently this is a fight that despite the city wants changed doesn't have much support outside of Milwaukee. Clearly money isn't the only issue but it sure doesn't help.

It police related legislation soon a bill will be floated in Madison to eliminate police pay in Milwaukee for officers convicted of a felony. So we can stop paying crooked cops... This state law currently only applies to Milwaukee!

It police related legislation soon a bill will be floated in Madison to eliminate police pay in Milwaukee for officers convicted of a felony. So we can stop paying crooked cops... This state law currently only applies to Milwaukee!

This still blows my mind....what a joke.

I've got a friend who works in the development industry (and I won't go farther than that) that passed this along to me... thought you'd be interested in seeing it.

It's a rendering of the StayBridge Hotel going in at the southeast corner of Water and Juneau. Groundbreaking is scheduled for Thursday, January 18. Enjoy!

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8159/staybridgemilwaukeeel0.jpg

Man o man that is a nice looking building.

When this thing is done, it will be such a great "I told you so" to those who were dead set against tearing down the Park East. It has taken some years to get these projects moving, but the end result will show that tearing down that old freeway spur was one of the best things this city ever did.

they got the skyline backwards behind it, kind of funny.

so this will replace that parking lot then?

This building will be at the corner of Water and Juneau right next to Bar Louie... I believe it was three small parking lots and an alley way vacation that makes up the lot it will be on..

These have been out for at least a few weeks now: More Staybridge renderings (http://www.dochotelsinc.com/hotel-development-staybridge-suites.html).

^^ you should share more of your knowledge with us then sire....:)

that looks nice

I think everyone here will appreciate this. Check out Eppstein Uhen Architect's new web site http://www.eua.com (largest firm in Milwaukee). Navigate the Portfolio to find some new projects and some renderings never seen before by the public. Pay special attention to the Corporate/Industrial - Developer portion of the portfolio...

The Staybridge, I like it. I like it a lot. Yesseree, that's a mighty fine looking building you've got there.

I think everyone here will appreciate this. Check out Eppstein Uhen Architect's new web site http://www.eua.com (largest firm in Milwaukee). Navigate the Portfolio to find some new projects and some renderings never seen before by the public. Pay special attention to the Corporate/Industrial - Developer portion of the portfolio...

...wow!

I'm extremely impressed with EUA's future design plans for the city. These buildings are quality buildings and I don't think the city will ever look the same once they're built.

Ovation Plaza
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/Downtown%20Developments/ovationplaza.jpg

Renassiance ClubSport in Third Ward
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/Downtown%20Developments/renassianceclubsport.jpg

This is the building I love the most!!
Block 6 & 12 (I don't know what that means...but it looks like its a block before the North End on Water St.)
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/Downtown%20Developments/block612.jpg

Block 6 & 12 (I don't know what that means...but it looks like its a block before the North End on Water St.)

"Blocks 6 & 12" refers to the numbered blocks as designated by the City's Park East Redevelopment Plan (http://www.mkedcd.org/parkeast/PEplan.html).

I'm extremely impressed with EUA's future design plans for the city. These buildings are quality buildings and I don't think the city will ever look the same once they're built.

Ovation Plaza
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/ovationplaza.jpg

Renassiance ClubSport in Third Ward
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/renassianceclubsport.jpg

This is the building I love the most!!
Block 6 & 12 (I don't know what that means...but it looks like its a block before the North End on Water St.)
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/block612.jpg

Those buildings are sweet and the tallest greenish building really needs to be built, along with the Ruvin project the park east looks to have some decent height.

is block 6 & 12 anything other than a concept or proposal? has the county/city approved this yet?

Hey if you look at the 3rd rendering of that tallish green building you can see another one of their projects, manpower's HQ, sitting on the other side of the river.

Please god, oh PLEASE let don't let that last proposal fall through.

Here is another version of the greenish building, labeled as Block 6/12 on www.eua.com
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/Downtown%20Developments/project612version2.jpg

Honestly I like both versions, but this one looks a little more old Milwaukee than the other version.

is block 6 & 12 anything other than a concept or proposal? has the county/city approved this yet?

No final approvals for that proposal have been made yet.

No final approvals for that proposal have been made yet.

Do you think, if its sent to the Common Council, that they would approve of it?

Here is another version of the greenish building, labeled as Block 6/12 on www.eua.com

Honestly I like both versions, but this one looks a little more old Milwaukee than the other version.

I don't know if that is a different version, or to me it looks like the same building (w/ green glass) but at a different time period of the day, like the sunrise.

Do you think, if its sent to the Common Council, that they would approve of it?

you guys, we could all sit here and draw nice looking buildings all day. until there is a viable tenant, none of these will ever get built. this will never even go to the common council until a tenant is in place.

in addition, i wouldn't be surprised if several of these would need some major public assistance.

not trying to be a downer because I really do hope that they all get built, but we aren't short on ideas right now. We have plenty of great ideas and building concepts, but very few large tenants.

Do you think, if its sent to the Common Council, that they would approve of it?

This proposal was first brought to light in early 2006 from NAI MLG Commercial. It was the lone response from a County-issued request for proposals for that site. In April 2006, a County Board committee made a recommendation that the full County Board should authorize the sale of the land to the developer...but I haven't been able to find anything since then of whether or not the Board followed through on that recommendation.

What's shown in those renderings is much more substantial than the initial reports of the proposal. There was never any mention of a tower at all back then. So it may be that the developers had gone back to do some tweaking and will re-present it before the full Board gives final approval for the land sale...much like other Park East developers have done.

If/when this ever gets to the Common Council, their approval or disapproval will likely be based on how much financial assistance (if any) the developer will be asking for from the City.

Of course, the biggest approval that's needed is the approval of the real estate market...no demand for such a building means no building at all.

I can't find Blocks 6&12 in the portfolio. Can someone post both versions of the design? Also, the Pleasant Street project- is that a newer version than the one that was on the site a couple of months ago? It looks like it would fit in with the neighborhood better (the other one was more or less a strip mall).

you guys, we could all sit here and draw nice looking buildings all day. until there is a viable tenant, none of these will ever get built. this will never even go to the common council until a tenant is in place.

Indeed. Take the Ovation Plaza proposal, for example.

The developers keep scaling down the proposal because they have not been able to land any anchor tenants.

http://cdx.xceligent.com/attachments/914/460914_tn.jpg
^ Mixed-use Ovation Plaza design circa 2003.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7956/op2sm5.jpg
^ Mixed-use Ovation Plaza design circa 2006-07.

The office market, which is a prime candidate for many of these seemingly dormant proposals, is rather soft right now.

I can't find Blocks 6&12 in the portfolio. Can someone post both versions of the design?.

Scroll up. Brewcityfan posted both renderings here already in two separate posts.

They are not actually two different designs. It's the same design, just rendered at different times of the day, to show the how the facades are affected by different sun lighting conditions.

I look at that beautiful Block 6/12 rendering and all I can think of is how wonderful it would be if that was the new Manpower headquarters.

I look at that beautiful Block 6/12 rendering and all I can think of is how wonderful it would be if that was the new Manpower headquarters.

I agree, but let's give some credit to Manpower for locating downtown, at least. I've been critical of their new building, but what's done is done. Believe me, it won't win any awards for beauty or imagination, but, well...it's downtown -- more or less. They could've built suburban (can you say GE Medical or Northwestern Mutual), so it's fortunate that didn't happen anyways.

I agree, but let's give some credit to Manpower for locating downtown, at least. I've been critical of their new building, but what's done is done. Believe me, it won't win any awards for beauty or imagination, but, well...it's downtown -- more or less. They could've built suburban (can you say GE Medical or Northwestern Mutual), so it's fortunate that didn't happen anyways.

Well, NWM still has a huge operation downtown, and GE never was downtown, so that's no huge loss, although I do seem to recall they were the proposed tennant for Ovation Plaza. What we need is out-of-state companies that are relocating to look at Milwaukee instead of Chicago, or more importantly cities in the South or West. Having GE in the metro area is a bonus, wether they are in Tosa or not.

Well, NWM still has a huge operation downtown, and GE never was downtown, so that's no huge loss, although I do seem to recall they were the proposed tennant for Ovation Plaza. What we need is out-of-state companies that are relocating to look at Milwaukee instead of Chicago, or more importantly cities in the South or West. Having GE in the metro area is a bonus, wether they are in Tosa or not.

True enough re GE. But, can you just imagine if Milwaukee leaders had the wherewithal to find space for Northwestern Mutual's 1 million-plus sq. ft. of office space downtown...as well as GE's 550,000 sq. ft.?!! How about luring Kohl's downtown (before they built their big addition in Menomonee Falls). There are precious few corporate opportunities around here. You can't land 'em all, but just imagine if Milwaukee leaders were, well...leaders.

True enough re GE. But, can you just imagine if Milwaukee leaders had the wherewithal to find space for Northwestern Mutual's 1 million-plus sq. ft. of office space downtown...as well as GE's 550,000 sq. ft.?!! How about luring Kohl's downtown (before they built their big addition in Menomonee Falls). There are precious few corporate opportunities around here. You can't land 'em all, but just imagine if Milwaukee leaders were, well...leaders.

or imagine if milwaukee's corporate leaders gave a $!#% about downtown. ceo's are far more to blame than any politician.

Yes but if everything was located downtown then the suburbs really wouldn't have much to go on in the suburbs. Those corporate developments in and around the Milwaukee area helped out many suburban communities grow and attract more people to the area.

More people can equal out to many things, from airport traffic going up which equals to possible new routes and airlines coming in to more recognition of the city, making the city more attractive to those out-of-state companies that want to move downtown.

or imagine if milwaukee's corporate leaders gave a $!#% about downtown. ceo's are far more to blame than any politician.

Takes two to tango. They both need each other, understanding, of course, that the CEO's have their butt's on the line, while the politicians just don't get it.
BTW, I've been driving West on I-94 to my new job in Waukesha each morning and the skyline view in my rear view mirror from the top of the hill on west-bound I-94 is pretty damn nice-looking. I'd love to see Lake Pointe Tower included in that view...

And hey at least we know that Renassiance ClubSport building will be built - I believe the city already approved the development. With the new Ruvin and Staybridge Suites proposals are going forward and construction is starting soon on one of them this month! The skyline will be changing, slowly but surely

And hey at least we know that Renassiance ClubSport building will be built - I believe the city already approved the development.

Nope. Developer is still looking for financing.

Nope. Developer is still looking for financing.

In that case forget I said anything! :lol: Does this city have anything going on at the moment that doesn't look negative?? *other than the Staybridge Hotel, Park Lafayette, and North End*

Takes two to tango. They both need each other, understanding, of course, that the CEO's have their butt's on the line, while the politicians just don't get it.

yeah, but if ceo's saw the inherent value of a downtown location, the city wouldn't have to shell out $20 million for a company. BlueCross, Northwestern Mutual, GE, Kohl's, etc...I know that they have stockholders/investors to think about, but ultimately the location of their hq is their decision, not a politician's.

In that case forget I said anything! :lol: Does this city have anything going on at the moment that doesn't look negative?? *other than the Staybridge Hotel, Park Lafayette, and North End*

Tons!
Manpower HQ is getting the "skin" put on.
First Place on the River and River Renaissance are really looking impressive.
Pabst work is set to begin later this month.
The Flatiron is moving along.
The UWM dorm on North as is going quickly.
Same with Columbia St. Mary's.
Convent Hill, the new Housing Authority building on Ogden is going up fast.
601 Lofts and University Club are almost complete.
CityGreen is getting close.
Harley Museum is well underway.
Amtrak remodeling is starting to be noticeable.
The Edge is suppossed to begin construction this spring.
The Hack Building is being cleaned for conversion into condos.

I could keep going. Of course there are dozens of proposals for projects that will continue to be fleshed out over the next few years.

edit: one other big one, Lakeshore State Park is opening in June.

Nope. Developer is still looking for financing.

Spoilsport. Surely, BrewCityFan is assuming the best on the Renaissance project, but how do you know this to be a fact, Markitect?

Tons!
Manpower HQ is getting the "skin" put on.
First Place on the River and River Renaissance are really looking impressive.
Pabst work is set to begin later this month.
The Flatiron is moving along.
The UWM dorm on North as is going quickly.
Same with Columbia St. Mary's.
Convent Hill, the new Housing Authority building on Ogden is going up fast.
601 Lofts and University Club are almost complete.
CityGreen is getting close.
Harley Museum is well underway.
Amtrak remodeling is starting to be noticeable.
The Edge is suppossed to begin construction this spring.
The Hack Building is being cleaned for conversion into condos.

I could keep going. Of course there are dozens of proposals for projects that will continue to be fleshed out over the next few years.

Thank you for rejuvenating me! With all the bad news coming in the past few hours of posts it didn't sound like anything was possible for this difficult city....and SkyKing is absolutely right, I always look for the best in EVERY development, and well, I thought from what the news was saying the Renassiance ClubSport was going to be built but only at 14 stories instead of the original 18 stories.....

yeah, but if ceo's saw the inherent value of a downtown location, the city wouldn't have to shell out $20 million for a company. BlueCross, Northwestern Mutual, GE, Kohl's, etc...I know that they have stockholders/investors to think about, but ultimately the location of their hq is their decision, not a politician's.


Yes, understood, but the history of politicians and city leaders in this town is one of reaction - not pro-action. Not to compare Milwaukee to Chicago, but our big brother to the south has a long history of city leaders working with developers to get things done. The results speak for themselves...again, not to compare the two cities. But the concept is the same.

Spoilsport. Surely, BrewCityFan is assuming the best on the Renaissance project, but how do you know this to be a fact, Markitect?

Research...connections....keeping up with news...

Research...connections....keeping up with news...

Kudos.

Last news I heard on the Clubsport project is that they were going to look to the city in the form of a TIF for help and try to break ground in March of this year.. Have they approached the city at all?

Here is another version of the greenish building, labeled as Block 6/12 on www.eua.com
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/Downtown%20Developments/project612version2.jpg

Honestly I like both versions, but this one looks a little more old Milwaukee than the other version.

That is such an amazing building.. definately would change the character of that section of town. What category on the website are the renderings under?

Yes, understood, but the history of politicians and city leaders in this town is one of reaction - not pro-action. Not to compare Milwaukee to Chicago, but our big brother to the south has a long history of city leaders working with developers to get things done. The results speak for themselves...again, not to compare the two cities. But the concept is the same.

Chicago? It's called corruption or "The Daley Machine" take your pick. I remember the honorable mayor crying at a press conference as "one"(fall guy) of his staff was swept up
in the scandal of the condo. development property just west of Lake Shore Drive and the "Museum Campus." He cried for that loss of one cog behind bars. :)
Hey but the machine works even if a select few politicians profit from it.

The city looks much better tree wise from hosting that Democratic convention too, and covering the
southbound commuter lines trough and underground parking ramps with a Frank Gehry++ green space was quite a coup as well.

That is such an amazing building.. definately would change the character of that section of town. What category on the website are the renderings under?

I like how the footprint orientation busts the grid.

What category on the website are the renderings under?

Eppstein Uhen Architects (http://www.eua.com)

Portfolio > Corporate & Industrial > Developer

The "Block 6 & 12" renderings were there this afternoon, but seem to have been removed since then.

Eppstein Uhen Architects (http://www.eau.com)

Portfolio > Corporate & Industrial > Developer

The "Block 6 & 12" renderings were there this afternoon, but seem to have been removed since then.Well now, that is interesting. Why do you or anyone else suppose that Eppstein Uhen Architects did that?

Markitect - you put the U and A in the wrong spot on your weblink.

And maybe someone from EUA is on the forums here and didn't want to get our hopes up like every other decent/great/awesome project that's under development.

Last news I heard on the Clubsport project is that they were going to look to the city in the form of a TIF for help and try to break ground in March of this year.. Have they approached the city at all?

Yeah, they've approached the City regarding a TIF; but it hasn't gotten to the point of sending it to the Common Council for a vote yet. The developer has also been in the process of acquiring an existing small building on the site that would have to be demolished to make room for the proposed building.

HOLY CRAP! The current banner is of my hometown of Appleton, Wisconsin. Has the earth tilted off its axis??? Who submitted it? Don't worry, I'm not homesick!

HOLY CRAP! The current banner is of my hometown of Appleton, Wisconsin. Has the earth tilted off its axis??? Who sumitted it? Don't worry, I'm not homesick!

:lol: At least we know the SSC banner is open to ALL cities, big and small!

:lol: At least we know the SSC banner is open to ALL cities, big and small!That is evidently true, and for all the world to see. YEA! Sorry. We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Yeah, they've approached the City regarding a TIF; but it hasn't gotten to the point of sending it to the Common Council for a vote yet. The developer has also been in the process of acquiring an existing small building on the site that would have to be demolished to make room for the proposed building.

I really wish they would get moving on it.. Although it isn't an incredible building it does seem to do well with merging the area between downtown and the third ward.

The "Block 6 & 12" renderings were there this afternoon, but seem to have been removed since then.

Did anyone save all the renderings to post here? The one day I take off of work and aren't monitoring things through out the day..:bash: lol

Did anyone save all the renderings to post here? The one day I take off of work and aren't monitoring things through out the day..:bash: lol

All you have to do is scroll back to find them... but since we're on a new page, I'll post them again.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/Downtown%20Developments/block612.jpg http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r21/g3forc305/Downtown%20Developments/project612version2.jpg

Aren't there more renderings that were on the website? I thought someone said you could see the manpower HQ in one of the renderings

Aren't there more renderings that were on the website? I thought someone said you could see the manpower HQ in one of the renderings

Ah, that's what you're talking about. My bad. Well, yes, there were two other renderings but they weren't like the ones posted above. Rather, they were basic "model" renderings with the buildings all white. It just showed the landscape in the immediate area and how it related to the building footprint. Sounds cooler than what it was. You're not missing out on much cause the other two renderings are way better.

So what's with the Appleton banner? That's kind of surprising. I didn't think there was much of an Appleton contingent on here.

So what's with the Appleton banner? That's kind of surprising. I didn't think there was much of an Appleton contingent on here.

DaiTengu, the new server guru, is from Appleton. He's probably responsible.

The downtown office market is not doing that well right now. There are high vacancies, and we don't have a pool of major anchor tenants right now looking for space. But I am optomistic about these office proposals for the long term, because soon we will have a major Fortune 500 headquarters on King Drive -- Manpower just had a big article written about them in The Economist magazine; with the growing need for tech workers worldwide, Manpower is probably the most "important" company in Wisconsin right now.
Moreover, while demand for Class A space might be dormant right now, supply of Class A space is also very low. We don't have much Class A space available right now. So, by the end of the decade, I think there will be enough demand for Class A space to warrent an increase in supply. How much demand, I do not know. But I'm hopeful demand will go up because of Manpower.

water street will have a dramatic facelift through the next 10 years.

airtran,airtran,airtran.

FROM JSONLINE
AirTran ups offer for Midwest Air by 18%
AirTran Holdings Inc. (AAI) raised its offer for Midwest Air Group Inc. (MEH) today by almost 18% to about $345 million after its earlier bid for the regional airline was rejected last month. More »


Positive news for the city:

City gives 'greenlight' to redeveloping area
Funds would boost N. 30th St. corridor
By TOM DAYKIN
tdaykin@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Jan. 10, 2007
The industrial corridor around N. 30th St., including the former Tower Automotive complex and other vacant buildings, will be redeveloped over several years, bringing jobs and new investment to one of Milwaukee's bleakest landscapes, Mayor Tom Barrett plans to announce today.

More bad news for YX.... hopefully the shareholders will see that Joe Leonard is once again hucking snake oil. Snake oil they shouldn't buy. Good luck, Midwest, a takeover by these low cost clowns would be terrible for Milwaukee.

The Journal Sentinel is asking shareholders of their opinions concerning this. Here's the link: http://www2.jsonline.com/content/forum/midwest_shareholders.asp

But we have to see what Hartford Funds, T. Rowe Price, and Baird have to say, I think they're the largest shareholders.

More bad news for YX.... hopefully the shareholders will see that Joe Leonard is once again hucking snake oil. Snake oil they shouldn't buy. Good luck, Midwest, a takeover by these low cost clowns would be terrible for Milwaukee.

how will it be terrible...explain please.

Aren't there more renderings that were on the website? I thought someone said you could see the manpower HQ in one of the renderings

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6164/b6123eh0.jpg

how will it be terrible...explain please.

Oh for God's sake c'mon we already had this whole debate/argument about how AirTran's aquisition would be bad for Milwaukee a month ago! If I need to retype my arguments again I'll go stir-crazy, but I will do it.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6164/b6123eh0.jpg

Thanks for posting that, its a lot larger project than the other renderings show. I think I could do without that extension off to the left side of the building... just seems too bulky with it attached. Anyone have thoughts on this?

how will it be terrible...explain please.

please... not again

how will it be terrible...explain please.

Why don't we just ask the people of St Louis what happened when American made similiar promises six years ago when they took over TWA? How on earth was that good for St Louis?

Leonard seems like a ginormous asshole.. his true colors come out in the latest update from biztimes... http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2007/1/11/#airtran-raises-offer-becomes-more-hostile

^^ yes a good article to show what airtran really wants, the planes more than the company.


Hostile words

In a conference call with analysts this morning, Leonard criticized the Midwest board and its plans to grow its company. At various moments in the call, Leonard said the Midwest board's plan is "schizophrenic," "weak," "unrealistic" and "bizarre."
(To read more about the Midwest board's growth plan, visit (www.biztimes.com/daily/2007/1/10/midwest-airlines-raises-the-ante-on-airtran).
In its "Morning Meeting Report," which was written before AirTran's latest offer was announced, Milwaukee-based Robert W. Baird & Co. Inc. analysts said they expected the Midwest board's new business plan to increase the value of the company.
"We raised our price target to $14 (per share) based on our assumptions of Midwest as a stand-alone entity and continue to believe AirTran would need to pay a premium to this target to convince shareholders to approve a merger," Baird analysts stated.
Leonard also criticized Midwest board because the company has been "unprofitable."
In reality, Midwest posted a profit of $1.7 million in its most recent quarter, and AirTran lost $4.3 million in its most recent quarter.
Tad Hutcheson, vice president of marketing and sales for AirTran, previously told SBT that his company was determined to acquire Midwest. AirTran has ordered 60 new 737 airplanes from Boeing Co.
"We've got those airplanes on order, and they've got to go somewhere," Hutcheson said.
Carol Skornicka, senior vice president and general counsel of Midwest Air Group, told AM-620 WTMJ this morning, "At this time, we remain committed to our growth plan and our business strategy, and we believe that we'll return greater value to our shareholders in the long term than even this tender offer from AirTran."

midwest also has some big plans for its future that a takeover would crush, i think midwest enjoys being independant. heres and article on thier plans.....

Air trans offer one day after this article


Midwest to push plan for growth
Airline restates call for new regional jet service as it fights AirTran's takeover bid
By TOM DAYKIN

Posted: Jan. 10, 2007
Midwest Air Group Inc. again declared its independence Wednesday, reiterating plans to use a new regional jet service and other moves to increase revenue - and soar above an unwanted takeover bid from AirTran Holdings Inc.

Midwest Airlines

The Oak Creek operator of Midwest Airlines and the Midwest Connect regional carrier made its statement in a securities filing and a closed-door presentation to institutional investors in Milwaukee. Midwest Air executives will take that message on the road today to industry analysts in New York and again on Friday for a presentation in Baltimore.

The continued cold shoulder for AirTran prompted speculation that the Orlando, Fla., suitor might sweeten its $290 million bid. An AirTran spokesman said it is keeping its options open.

Midwest Air shares closed at $12.90, up 80 cents, well above AirTran's offer of $11.25 a share. Other airline stock prices rose as well on news of falling oil prices and US Airways raising its bid for Delta Air Lines.

Milwaukee-based Robert W. Baird & Co. raised its target price on Midwest Air to $14.

"We raised our price target to $14 based on our assumptions of Midwest as a standalone entity and continue to believe AirTran would need to pay a premium to this target to convince shareholders to approve a merger," Baird analyst Craig Kennison said in a note to investors.

"The ball is now in AirTran's court," said Jay Sorensen, an industry consultant and former Midwest marketing manager. "That's certainly what investors are looking for right now."

Kevin Healy, AirTran's vice president of planning and sales, said Midwest's investor presentation lacked details. He called it a thin response to AirTran's "comprehensive" proposal, which includes a pledge to raise the buyout price if Midwest can show it has additional value beyond the initial offer.

"They're not really doing anything to improve the value or demonstrate where the real value is," Healy said.

Midwest Air's statement summarized several recent announcements that are part of the company's plan to increase passenger capacity 15% in 2007 and 10% annually over the next three years.

The carrier, which produced revenue of $523 million in 2005 and hasn't yet posted 2006 results, said it could generate an additional $165 million to $205 million in annual revenue through its growth plan.

Baird said the growth plan could add 6 to 12 cents a share to 2007 earnings. Baird raised its 2007 earnings estimate for Midwest to 88 cents a share from 80 cents previously.

But Baird cautions that the estimates "are highly contingent on the timing of the regional jet service commencement and the overall profitability of the program."

The growth plan includes:

• A five-year contract with SkyWest Airlines Inc. to operate 15 to 25 regional jets on routes originating in Milwaukee and Kansas City, Mo. The 50-seat jets will begin flying in April under the Midwest Connect name, with 15 jets flying in 2007. That service could create $8 million to $10 million in annual revenue per jet.

• The addition of two MD-80 jets, each with about 145 seats, to the Midwest Airlines fleet and one 32-seat regional jet to the Midwest Connect fleet by mid-2007. The two MD-80s are projected to generate $40 million to $50 million in annual revenue.

• The reconfiguration of Midwest's Saver Service, which features two-by-three seating on flights to vacation destinations, to add some of the airline's wider, two-across Signature Service seating. That is expected to produce up to $5 million in annual revenue.

The new aircraft will be used in the creation of at least six new destinations, and as many as 12 new routes, in 2007. The company already has announced the March 4 launch of Midwest Connect service between Milwaukee and Duluth, Minn., and the upgrade of Milwaukee-St. Louis service to all regional jet service.


and
Milwaukee makes push to become a 'Well City'
http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2007/1/11/milwaukee-makes-push-to-become-a-well-city

These are all very good reasons as to why Midwest shareholders should NOT accept this proposal by AirTran. It just isn't right for the airline, for the city it represents, and the population that lives within the city.

The way I see it is that AirTran is Walmart. Some people will go the cheapest route but others see the costs associated with the lower price. I think most people in Milwaukee or at least those I have talked to see these costs with Airtran. People in this city and state have a way of going against the grain.

However, I realize that it will come down to a business decision and there is a very good chance AirTran will win out. I just hope the backlash is severe, I plan to boycott if AirTran doesn't keep every one of its 'promises' (which everyone knows they will not). If anyone wants a perfect example of how these things play out, talk to someone from Wausau about Wausau Insurance/Liberty Mutual and about how quickly promises can be broken.

AirTrans is bad for Milwaukee because Midwest is such a great airline. It's just that simple. When I travel I don't even look at travelocity until I've determined if I can take Midwest or not.

I would hate to see Midwest Airlines go the way of the Dodo bird. Not only because of excellent service and reputation, but mainly because Midwest Airlines has been a good home-grown corporate citizen in the community. And at this point, metro Milwaukee can't afford to lose another corporation from its ranks, IMHO.

And another thing that I'd like to throw out there. If Milwaukee was just another 50 or 60 miles further away from Chicago than it is now, AirTrash wouldn't be the least bit interested in Midwest Airlines. AirTrash wants to tap into the northern Illinois market via Mitchell International because all the landing slots at O'Hare are taken.

In fact that raises a good question I think. Instead of trying to buy out Midwest Airlines, why don't they increase their flight service in and out of Mitchell in the first place? Maybe it's because they can't compete against Midwest in the Milwaukee market right now? So their strategy is: "If we can't beat 'em, we'll buy 'em."

I would hate to see Midwest Airlines go the way of the Dodo bird. Not only because of excellent service and reputation, but mainly because Midwest Airlines has been a good home-grown corporate citizen in the community. And at this point, metro Milwaukee can't afford to lose another corporation from its ranks, IMHO.

And another thing that I'd like to throw out there. If Milwaukee was just another 50 or 60 miles further away from Chicago than it is now, AirTrash wouldn't be the least bit interested in Midwest Airlines. AirTrash wants to tap into the northern Illinois market via Mitchell International because all the landing slots at O'Hare are taken.

In fact that raises a good question I think. Instead of trying to buy out Midwest Airlines, why don't they increase their flight service in and out of Mitchell in the first place? Maybe it's because they can't compete against Midwest in the Milwaukee market right now? So their strategy is: "If we can't beat 'em, we'll buy 'em."


Yeah, as I think someone else mentioned on here a while back, its like Kmart trying to buy out Nordstrom. It's ludicrous!

Yeah, as I think someone else mentioned on here a while back, its like Kmart trying to buy out Nordstrom. It's ludicrous!

:uh: *shudders*

good god! don't even speak of such travesties

Yeah, as I think someone else mentioned on here a while back, its like Kmart trying to buy out Nordstrom. It's ludicrous!

Or Macy's replacing Marshall Fields... oh wait... :ohno:

yea i agree i can do away with that bulky extention of the building... how about we take that square footage from the side and put it on TOP of the building... woo hoo that make it taller!

A quote from one of the major investors in Midwest, from the SBT:

In essence, the future of Milwaukee's hometown airline may now be out its own hands. Institutional investors, who would have no sentimental attachment or loyalty to the well-being of the Milwaukee region, own 42 percent of Midwest Air Group's shares and will make the judgment of whether to sell their shares on the financial merits of AirTran's offer.
One of those institutional investors is Al Frank Asset Management, a Laguna Beach, Calif.-based company that owns 244,700 shares of Midwest stock.
Chris Armbruster, research analyst at Al Frank Asset Management, says his company wants a higher offer for its Midwest stock.
"We are not looking to sell our shares at these levels," Armbruster said. "We don’t think this is a deal Midwest has to accept. Midwest can definitely continue to successfully operate the airline on its own … We are OK with letting (Midwest) management make that decision. If it is through independent operations, we support their decision. If they think that combining with AirTran is a good decision, then we are OK with that. We think fair market value would be $15 per share, given current information,"

It's part of a bigger article that highlights business opposition to AirTran CEO Joe Leonard's letters to various CEOs in the Milwaukee area, which can be found here: http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2007/1/11/#airtran-ceos-letter-inspires-opposition

Well I guess we'll have to wait until February 7th or 8th to see how this all plays itself out. Frankly, I don't think the CEO of AirTrash is doing himself any good by bashing the management team of Wisconsin's favorite airline. The article states that 42% of the stock is owned by institutional investors. That does leave 58% majority in the hands of individual investors, whom I suspect are pretty loyal to Midwest Airlines. On TMJ4 tonight they had a story of a local guy who is trying to rally support within the community to keep Midwest Airlines independent. He was spending his own money to get a bunch of lawn signs made up saying NO to the hostile takeover. He even received donated help from a local printing business in Milwaukee who printed out thousands of business cards for the guy to pass out to people.

I have to give one last quote, just because I get a kick out of this one. This was sent to TMJ4 online:

"If I were a stockholder for Midwest Express I'd buckle my seatbelt for a bumpy ride. The way AirTran is approaching both Midwest and Milwaukee in general, is a sure indication of the way they conduct business, and I don't think any Midwest Stockholder should give into this form of business bullying. Let's offer AirTran a chocolate chip cookie and show them the door!" - P.H.

The website Oshkosh49 is talking about is www.wilovesmidwestairlines.com

I have to give one last quote, just because I get a kick out of this one. This was sent to TMJ4 online:

"If I were a stockholder for Midwest Express I'd buckle my seatbelt for a bumpy ride. The way AirTran is approaching both Midwest and Milwaukee in general, is a sure indication of the way they conduct business, and I don't think any Midwest Stockholder should give into this form of business bullying. Let's offer AirTran a chocolate chip cookie and show them the door!" - P.H.
Although I am no longer a fan of Wisconsin, I am a huge supporter of Midwest Airlines and I think this should be the new slogan for the anti-AirTran folks! "Give them a cookie and show them the door!"

Although I am no longer a fan of Wisconsin, I am a huge supporter of Midwest Airlines and I think this should be the new slogan for the anti-AirTran folks! "Give them a cookie and show them the door!"At 30,000 feet of course. :lol:

.....Its not going to happen anyways. I just think its funny how everyone is so one sided on the issue. But if it just so happens, you will all be suprised at the outcome.


YOU MEAN THE 90 DOLLAR COOKIE! i prefer the 90 dollars to spend in town.

.....Its not going to happen anyways. I just think its funny how everyone is so one sided on the issue. But if it just so happens, you will all be suprised at the outcome.


YOU MEAN THE 90 DOLLAR COOKIE! i prefer the 90 dollars to spend in town.

Well that's what happens when a company treats its customers extremely well, and its community with great honor. And I'd give Midwest 90 dollars over anything else at the moment, they need all the support they can get.

I'd rather pay $90 to fly Midwest verses a free flight on AirTrash. And I damn well mean that, seriously.

thats disrespectful. How is airtran trash? Wow you must have COMPLETE inferior problems to this airtran. I have been on airtran and midwest so many times. Airtran's business class is the same thing as Midwest coach. Midwest is a better quality airline, but to call airtran "trash" is quite sad. It gives the oppurtunity for people to fly and save money. I have never found any trash on airtrans flights, the flight attendent's may be underpaid, but I have never had any problems with them. The bathrooms always clean AND! AIRTRAN HAS NEWER PLANES than midwest. There fleet is the newest in the airline industry. How is that trash?

You're entitled to your opinion, and guess what, so am I.

point taken. i like midwest in some aspects. It was an amazing comeback after the 9/11 fall out

point taken. i like midwest in some aspects. It was an amazing comeback after the 9/11 fall out Not to forget the extremely high fuel costs as well. And that goes for the whole airline industry.

Well I think I'll just make sure to buy UWMJay some green and white pom pons, and to make sure never to call AirTran "AirTrash". They have a decent low-cost operation at Mitchell but this merger is simply to grab more planes, and to grab Mitchell from us and to make it more-so Chicago's "Third Airport".

While that's not a bad thing, because it sort of is, if it fails to gain more travelers they'll dump it back on us and we're stuck back at square one, now without an airline that we can say is ours.

And if it does work, sorry UWMJay but I'll still hope that the Tribune article I posted a few weeks ago comes true, and JetBlue adds Milwaukee to their service. I'll fly them if Midwest is gone.

UW, both Midwest and AirTr*** fly out of Mitchell. With Midwest airfares being a little higher on the average, why doesn't AirTr*** beat the crap out of Midwest in the Milwaukee market? I believe the reason is because of service and amenities that Midwest offers verses the other guys, and hometown loyality. If people want to fly AirTr*** out of Mitchell, and save some money now and then, they can. But the vast majority don't. Now why don't they UW?

Like I said in a earlier post, AirTr*** couldn't care less about the flying public of Milwaukee. They only thing they care about is the huge population of northern Illinois. Why then Midwest? Because they can't get any landing slots at O'Hare, that's why. If they could get landing slots at O'Hare, there would be NO takeover bid. Simple as that.

UW, both Midwest and AirTr*** fly out of Mitchell. With Midwest airfares being a little higher on the average, why doesn't AirTr*** beat the crap out of Midwest in the Milwaukee market? I believe the reason is because of service and amenities that Midwest offers verses the other guys, and hometown loyality. If people want to fly AirTr*** out of Mitchell, and save some money now and then, they can. But the vast majority don't. Now why don't they UW?

Like I said in a earlier post, AirTr*** couldn't care less about the flying public of Milwaukee. They only thing they care about is the huge population of northern Illinois. Why then Midwest? Because they can't get any landing slots at O'Hare, that's why. If they could get landing slots at O'Hare, there would be NO takeover bid. Simple as that.

Well and the Tribune also stated in that article that they really couldn't get any landing slots at Midway either, because their rival Southwest took em all up (Midway's Southwest's hub)

thats disrespectful. How is airtran trash? Wow you must have COMPLETE inferior problems to this airtran. I have been on airtran and midwest so many times. Airtran's business class is the same thing as Midwest coach. Midwest is a better quality airline, but to call airtran "trash" is quite sad. It gives the oppurtunity for people to fly and save money. I have never found any trash on airtrans flights, the flight attendent's may be underpaid, but I have never had any problems with them. The bathrooms always clean AND! AIRTRAN HAS NEWER PLANES than midwest. There fleet is the newest in the airline industry. How is that trash?
Since when do we have to be respectful of a business? Do you get mad when people talk "trash" about Wal-Mart? How about McDonalds? Ford? Chevy? Now, you tell me how ridiculous it sounds.

Well and the Tribune also stated in that article that they really couldn't get any landing slots at Midway either, because their rival Southwest took em all up (Midway's their hub)That proves my point even more so. For AirTrash, it's all about Chicagoland.

What I don't understand is why AirTran just doesn't make a hub in Rockford if its that anal about getting a hub in the Chicagoland area. Rockford recently improved its airport and they're the ones officially dubbing themselves Chicago's Third Airport. I guess Milwaukee is luring more travelers....and that's not because Milwaukee has the same flights for cheaper, its because Midwest is alive and well.

Go to any travel website and you'll know that booking a flight out of Chicago is cheaper than it is out of Milwaukee, but yet Chicagoans do come up here...I WONDER WHY!?......

What I don't understand is why AirTran just doesn't make a hub in Rockford if its that anal about getting a hub in the Chicagoland area.I think that's because Milwaukee is much closer to the the northern suburbs of Chicago than Rockford is. Therefore, Mitchell is much more likely to be used as an alternative choice to O'Hare by the millions of potantial customers that AirTrash is really going after.

Rockford? Gary is closer to Chicago than Milwaukee or Rockford.
Gary already has commuter rail to downtown Chicago.
Put AirTrash in Gary with the gaudiness, cheapness of the casinos.
Pan Am folded only because it wasn't a cheap alternative to Midway.

AirTrash could take all the gates at Gary, and start selling weekend casino JUNKet packages.

I actually know someone that works as a pilot for airtran & alot of pilots to go along with that. They are not trash. Why is this a attack UWMilwaukeeJay thread just because I have a single opinion towards Airtran. I don't care anyways, I said all along this would never happen. Im sure there is other things to talk about in Milwaukee other than Mitchell "international"..seriously now.

"wave green and white pom poms" is this high school where you attack someone's character? Its a freakin opinion, and i think some of you need to grow up. I have stated several times that i admire midwest airlines.

I actually know someone that works as a pilot for airtran & alot of pilots to go along with that. They are not trash. Why is this a attack UWMilwaukeeJay thread just because I have a single opinion towards Airtran. I don't care anyways, I said all along this would never happen. Im sure there is other things to talk about in Milwaukee other than Mitchell "international"..seriously now.

"wave green and white pom poms" is this high school where you attack someone's character? Its a freakin opinion, and i think some of you need to grow up. I have stated several times that i admire midwest airlines.

I agree that this is getting rather hostile. We all need to calm down a bit and re-evaluate who and what we're fighting over.

Not to mention this is a Milwaukee DEVELOPMENT NEWS thread, not a debate thread. We have 3 pages of debate on this now. And we wonder why we're on "Milwaukee Development News 10".