^^

Not exactly :D. When I say "completely autonomous (self powered by diesel generators)" y mean it doesn't need a link with locomotive to get electric power (to run AC, lights and the rest of on-board services). A couple of diesel generators provide power to the train, but a locomotive is still needed, of course.

Completely autonomous Talgo 6 trains make possible passing throught the gauge change complex without turn off AC and lights, so people sleeping (or not) won't be disturbed. In a common train, when locomotive is unplugged, on-board services are turned-off.

Ok...at first i'm surprised, maybe beacause my english is not perfect...but yes...I know this "generator" car in the talgos.

But also, I would like to know more about this new adquisitions, are the same train that actually (elipsos) or change something?

Except lights! Usually coaches have batteries for that.

Yes, but just emergency lights are turned on when the locomotive is unplugged ;).


Ok...at first i'm surprised, maybe beacause my english is not perfect...but yes...I know this "generator" car in the talgos.

But also, I would like to know more about this new adquisitions, are the same train that actually (elipsos) or change something?

They are almost the same train, but newer Talgo 6 coaches have Talgo 7 suspension and wheels, speeding up the train from 200 km/h to 220 km/h, and increasing comfort.

Moreover, I imagine new Talgo sleeping coaches have same advantages than Talgo 7 coaches.

New generation of Talgo coaches allow an easier management of Talgo type rolling stock. The particular design of these coaches (with suspension and wheels between each coach) forced to have special ending coaches in the train, until 6th generation. However, 7th generation has a new suspension columns layout along the train, ending coaches are tecnically identical to others, and management of coaches is easier. It's a bit difficult to explain it correctly.

A/C equipements are under the floor along the coach in 7th generation, and not in the end of the coach. It improves natural pendulation and increases capacity.

Well, these are some differences between two last generations.

^^

That would be fantastic, but the new sleeping coaches are Talgo 6, not Talgo 7 :D.

^^Yes, I know, but that's why I say "I imagine" xD :D.

I know new night trains are Talgo 6 with some improvements from 7th generation, but really I don't know how many improvements there will be :D (besides 7th generation wheels and suspension) xD

If you say there will be only these improvements I will believe you :D

Yes, it can have sleeping coaches because technology of Talgo coaches are basically the same. However, there is a problem due to voltage systems.

These units can run on conventional Spanish lines electrificated at 3000 V DC, and on new UIC lines at 25 kV AC. In Southern French network electrification system used is 1500 V DC, so Talgo/Bombardier locomotives must have modificated. Now, international trains between Spain and France, Italy o Switerzland change its locomotive at the border station.

Moreover, for a night train is more practical being a train without traction, because it's easier changing number of coaches and adapt them to needs.

I would be nice if they could be modified for 1.5kV...

Imagine if an Elipsos Trenhotel started its journey in London, travelled through France and served Barcelona and Madrid. It could serve holiday destinations in SE Spain during the summer too.

^^When HS network is more developped, it will be possible, no doubt.

Suposely, France had a plan to change voltage system in its Southern network, but it seems to have been forgotten somewhere.

I don't know, but technology exists -a good example of multiple voltage systems train is TGV POS or Thalys PBKA, instead of a very poor power-to-weight-ratio on German lines-. However, by the moment, there is no news about it in Spain. Talgo has been developing a new variable gauge and bi-tension locomotive (http://www.trensim.com/galeria/albums/userpics/10011/traca04.jpg) (I don't talk about loco's used in S-130 made by Bombardier) and it would be a basis for future developements...

Yes, I imagine night trains from Nothern Europe towards Spain...:D

In so long trips it is easier to change to the locomotive and the machinist.

Some new videos from the HSL on Spain, principally in the southern corridor Madrid-Sevilla & Madrid-Toledo.


The new AVE S-103 during a service on Madrid-Sevilla HSL:

AVzL9n9J8sE

cXMc1j58cvA

DYd5WSl3ykc


Some AVE S-100 class:

PCPXekzeTe4

4-You55nuZQ

vem92PX2JkU


Now, the medium-haul high speed train, S-104 series on the track Madrid-Toledo:

ltHwH8a9PMs

QGVcCaiiGJQ

ZzR5G5s6r9k


And others:

ypoJuGwZUyE

AVE 252+Talgo 7, waiting for the AVE from Toledo.

RFfAqu8U6S0


In a few minuts more...

And finally, two videos of the Hsl Madrid-Barcelona at Lleida-Pirineus Station:

AVE S-120 (variable gauge train):

AuhxmxZGuyE

AVE-102 "the famous duck"

YkXcSifOKlA


BYE!

awesome trains! im taking the madrid-barcelona high speed train in a few months, i will post my own pics and videos! :cheers:

^^ The high speed service starts on december 21st 2007.

^^ The high speed service starts on december 21st 2007.

i know, im going in june 2008. quite a few months :lol: ;) :okay:

i know, im going in june 2008. quite a few months :lol: ;) :okay:

Top speed will be upgraded from 300 to 350 km/h for next summer, so, if you are lucky, you will fly :D.

^^ WOOOOOO!!!! :colgate:

^^ The high speed service starts on december 21st 2007.
Commercial service from BCN to Madrid and vice versa starts on December the 22nd, 2007.
;)

Some updates from the Spanish forum.

HSL Madrid-Barcelona. It will be opened on December 21st.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15212359&postcount=124

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15218151&postcount=126

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15237507&postcount=137

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15287863&postcount=144


HSL Madrid-Valladolid. December 22nd.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15312558&postcount=1470

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15315342&postcount=1472

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15334229&postcount=1486

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15225415&postcount=1453

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15224717&postcount=1451

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15224236&postcount=1450

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15223561&postcount=1448

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15221953&postcount=1446

HSL Córdoba-Málaga. December 23rd.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=15354962&postcount=575

Commercial service from BCN to Madrid and vice versa starts on December the 22nd, 2007.
;)

That's why I didn't say commercial. We all know that political service always comes first :lol:

How much and how long takes between Madrid and Barcelona?

How much and how long takes between Madrid and Barcelona?

621 km (Madrid-Puerta de Atocha - Barcelona-Sants) in 2:30 aproximately.

Only from December 2007...I hope!

Only from December 2007...I hope!

Yes. I was talking about new HSL.

Actual services take 4:20 in direct trains between Madrid and Barcelona for a similar distance. You run on HSL between Madrid and Tarragona, and the final stretch between Tarragona and Barcelona you hace to use conventional lines.

^^

Renfe Alvia direct services between Madrid and Barcelona only take 3 hours and 55 minutes.

^^

Renfe Alvia direct services between Madrid and Barcelona only take 3 hours and 55 minutes.

Yes, from Sants. I've considerer time from estación de Francia to Puerta de Atocha. Sorry.

According to official Renfe timetables, for example:
Alvia nº 01658
Barcelona-Estación de Francia: 15:00
Barcelona-Sants: 15:30
Madrid-Puerta de Atocha:19:30

*Renfe uses 5 minutes of time buffer in that case .

Thanks for the informations :cheers:

Some curiosities, how much it costs between BCN-MAD nowadays and how much will cost in December 2007?

In December 2007 will be with AVE?

Cheers :cheers:

Thanks for the informations :cheers:

Some curiosities, how much it costs between BCN-MAD nowadays and how much will cost in December 2007?

In December 2007 will be with AVE?

Cheers :cheers:

Now the price is 67-70€ one way, after December 21st the price will be 100-110€ one way.
:eek:
A bit expensive...
:ohno:

^^

Not exactly:

MAD-BCN-MAD / BCN-MAD-BCN: from 70 € (turist class) to 220 € (club class).

Here we are the new S:103 filmed by me few hours ago!! Please up the volume of your speakers!! :cheers: :cheers:


cG9nf2ju8zA

...And here when it arrives at Lleida-Pirineus Station, in the Madrid-Barcelona LAV...


MvuTVACG61E

^^

Not exactly:

MAD-BCN-MAD / BCN-MAD-BCN: from 70 € (turist class) to 220 € (club class).
Where did you get that info, please?
:?
It will be never les than 50€ for 1 way!

^^

Just wait a few weeks (two as much). Renfe will make public its new commercial offer.

Well, I said 70 €, but it will be arround 90 €...

Here you have the link ;): http://www.cuatro.com/articulo.html?type=Tes&xref=20070613ctoultnot_3

i think it will be an incredible service and as such, a one way ticket in club class of €110 is acceptable... :)

by the way, AWESOME videos... :drool:

i think it will be an incredible service and as such, a one way ticket in club class of €110 is acceptable... :)

by the way, AWESOME videos... :drool:
Ok for club class, but it is expensive for tourist class, I'm afraid...
:sly:

Renfe commercial policy are going to change from next January. We have to expect some changes, for example less exprensive fares for buying in advance. Now there is no difference between buying a ticket 10 minutes before departure or a month before.

What will be time of trip betwen Paris and Madrid in 2009 when this line will be open?

^^

Madrid-Barcelona about 2:15

Barcelona-Paris about 5:45

So Madrid-Paris (via Barcelona) about 8:00

BUT about 2012-2013 Madrid-Hendaye HSL will be open, so Madrid-Paris via Hendaye will be about one hour less.

^^Paris-Barcelona about 5 hours in 2012, if Frenchs finished the HS link from Montpellier to Béziers/Perpignan.
:yes:

Why the building section from Montpellier to Perpignan will last so long (to 2012) but Perpignan - Figueras only to 2009 ?

^^ Nice question for the French Government.

Why the building section from Montpellier to Perpignan will last so long (to 2012) but Perpignan - Figueras only to 2009 ?

The French have always prioritized their railway investments carefully. The section from Perpignan to Girona has been a severe bottleneck for trans european freight for several decades. On the other hand the section from Montpellier to Perpignan is not considered to be congested yet. I have read some reports that it may not need to be fully completed untill 2020.

These types of investments are not made just to fill a "gap on the map". They are made to solve real problems.

Why the building section from Montpellier to Perpignan will last so long (to 2012) but Perpignan - Figueras only to 2009 ?

Recently it has been said that Perpignan-Figueras will open in 2012.

The French have always prioritized their railway investments carefully. The section from Perpignan to Girona has been a severe bottleneck for trans european freight for several decades. On the other hand the section from Montpellier to Perpignan is not considered to be congested yet. I have read some reports that it may not need to be fully completed untill 2020.

These types of investments are not made just to fill a "gap on the map". They are made to solve real problems.

It isn't very precise. The main problem between Perpignan and Gerona isn't track capacity (in fact, there is double track in France and in Spain), but different guage. Though there are passenger trains which can run on different gauges (Talgo an CAF trains) due to variable gauge axles system, there isn't an easy equivalent system for freight trains. Well, really Tranfesa has special freight wagons which can change their axles, but it's more complicated and slow that the one used for passenger trains. Bottleneck is caused by guage problems, not by infraestructure capacity.

In the case of Perpignan-Montpellier, by the moment, there is a plan for building railway by-passes in Nimes and Montpellier, in order to try to avoid colapse of these stations. When UIC gauge track reach the Barcelona's harbour, freight shift will rise, and in France there will be problems due to many different types of traffic (freight, TGV's, TER...) on a simple double track. Moreover, that line has a lot of speed restrictions because of it goes through many urban areas.

In the long run, I found more problems in France that in Spain, at least in this corridor.

Recently it has been said that Perpignan-Figueras will open in 2012.
And Perpignan-Montpellier in HS not earlier than 2020...
:(

HSL Madrid - Barcelona

Anchuelo (Madrid)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/913/pict0045au7.jpg

AVE S - 103

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4126/pict0010tv6.jpg

Chiloeches (Guadalajara)

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/7272/pict0006wx7.jpg

wow, beatiful

I am very sorry to say this, but it's life:

High speed train opening to Barcelona delayed 1 or 2 months (January or February 2008), due to big problems in the tunnel to Sants station, because of underground waters.
:(
The official opening was 21/12/2007.
:dunno:

^^

But, ¿what about El Prat railway station? ¿AVEs can't arrive there until the tunnel is finished?

It was funny to hear Spanish people grumble on satellite TV about the suspension of various suburban railway lines in Barcelona, that were replaced by buses! This temporary inconvenience is necessary for the completion of the high-speed line near Barcelona.

^^

¿Why it's funny? ¿What do you think the people of Barcelona think about that?

It isn't necessary, but accidents happen, so this is a not-planned scenario.

^^

¿Why it's funny? ¿What do you think the people of Barcelona think about that?



It is funny because they take suburban railway service for granted. There are many other cities as big as Barcelona without such service, even in Europe. I think Barcelonians are a bit spoiled.

I am very sorry to say this, but it's life:

High speed train opening to Barcelona delayed 1 or 2 months (January or February 2008), due to big problems in the tunnel to Sants station, because of underground waters.
:(
The official opening was 21/12/2007.
:dunno:


But is it official??

Bad news...but it's better to be delayed that they will open the line with problems...

They use german INTER CITY EXPRESS (ICE) for their lines ????

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/ICE_3_Oberhaider-Wald-Tunnel.jpg/800px-ICE_3_Oberhaider-Wald-Tunnel.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/ICE3_Euerwangtunnel.jpg/800px-

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_3

^^ No, we have that one :):banana::cheers::cheers:


http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velaro

^^

But, ¿what about El Prat railway station? ¿AVEs can't arrive there until the tunnel is finished?
Impossible, El Prat station is not finished yet.
:(
High speed train will arrive to Barcelona Sants in January or February 2008, it is official now, before the Presidential Elections, of course!
:yes:
Now there are 3 train lines not working (for 15 days) and being replaced by 600 buses! The transportation in these buses is absolutely free, also the metro using a train ticket.
:okay:
We take longer to arrive to work or home but, at least, now it is free!
:dunno:

Hello all,

I am new here and this is my first post :wave:

It is funny because they take suburban railway service for granted. There are many other cities as big as Barcelona without such service, even in Europe. I think Barcelonians are a bit spoiled.

nastyathenian, it's not about being spoiled or not, or if others cities the size of Barcelona have suburban railway or not, it's about a service that was working reasonably well before the works for the AVE started, and after that has been a complete caos with trains cancelled, tecnical problems, trains arriving late or not arriving at all, with a new problem arising every week and no one taking the responsability about it. The local government blaming the central government in Madrid and the other way round.
All this has been going on for more than a year now and obviously the citizens of Barcelona cannot take it anymore. I think we should all complain much more than what we do, the arriving of the AVE cannot be at the expense of a suburban railway service that is taking thousands of people everyday to work, school, etc.

^^ No, we have that one :):banana::cheers::cheers:


http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velaro

The Velaro is basically an ICE3 with a new name.

High speed line works in Barcelona have been stopped today "sine die".
:sleepy:
Reason:
A platform of old Bellvitge station collapsed because of the underground waters!
:ohno:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t48/Skyssc/8ea02b3d.jpg

S'esfondra part de l'andana de l'estació de Bellvitge

Un tram d'uns deu metres de llarg de l'andana central de l'estació de tren de Bellvitge, a l'Hospitalet de Llobregat (Barcelona), situat damunt del túnel en construcció de l'AVE, s'ha esfondrat sense que l'incident hagi causat danys personals. Segons Adif, s'ha produït "un arrossegament de materials en la zona de sustentació" de l'andana central, cosa que ha originat un nou esvoranc que ha provocat "lleugers desperfectes en una longitud aproximada de 10 metres".

La incidència no ha provocat cap dany personal ja que l'estació està fora de servei des de dissabte passat, després que les obres de l'AVE afectessin també un mur d'un túnel dels FGC que transcorre per sobre del túnel de l'AVE en construcció, també a l'Hospitalet. Segons Adif, "només s'ha vist afectat un dels daus de formigó que subjecta les lloses de 5 metres de llarg que formen l'andana, en cedir uns 30 centímetres".

Els tècnics d'Adif ompliran amb formigó la zona afectada, "que és de petita grandària" i posteriorment "procediran a reposar el dau de formigó i les dues lloses d'andana afectades", segons el comunicat. Els tècnics desplaçats al lloc s'han apressat a posar una lona damunt del tram d'andana esfondrada, que és visible des de l'exterior de l'estació.

Algunes persones que, en el moment del succés, caminaven per un pont per als vianants que passa per sobre de l'estació, han explicat que han notat un fort tremolor i, en mirar cap avall, han vist com s'esfondrava aquesta part de l'andana, cosa que ha provocat moments d'angoixa i la fugida a corre-cuita dels vianants cap al carrer.

http://www.e-noticies.com/actualitat/sesfondra-part-de-landana-de-lestaci%f3-de-bellvitge-30445.html
:eek::eek:

^^More photos of the disaster:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/fernolea/varios2/ave.jpg

en rojo el trazado del ave

saliendo de Sant Boi entra en terreno deltaico (aluvión, materiales que fue dejando el rio Llobregat), y no lo abandona hasta llegar a la Torrassa

---

el socavón del dia

http://estaticos02.cache.el-mundo.net/albumes/2007/10/26/ave/032d4f98f5cacafece4859b7ae0a772b_extras_albumes_0.jpg

http://estaticos02.cache.el-mundo.net/albumes/2007/10/26/ave/3b012491f9b3f807af288de71dc76176_extras_albumes_0.jpg

http://estaticos02.cache.el-mundo.net/albumes/2007/10/26/ave/c830021929d0a62684dc1232296f971b_extras_albumes_0.jpg

http://estaticos02.cache.el-mundo.net/albumes/2007/10/26/ave/21500edd05475b921b86f0a51240784b_extras_albumes_0.jpg

http://estaticos02.cache.el-mundo.net/albumes/2007/10/26/ave/c9fd7126541d886b2128ee1fbb284d25_extras_albumes_0.jpg
:eek2::eek2:

nice trains verry modern !

It is funny because they take suburban railway service for granted. There are many other cities as big as Barcelona without such service, even in Europe. I think Barcelonians are a bit spoiled.

you're not right. Barcelona is improving its urban transport and keeps it at really high level. other large cities should follow that example. isn't it great that citys has so good urban transport system and its citizens use it a lot?!

High speed line works to Barcelona delayed 2 or 3 months...
:(

It's just shameful :ohno:

^^And more bad news: Barcelona commuter trains to the South, airport train included, not working from 20/10 to 12/11/2007!
:ohno:
And the high speed line to Barcelona will not be finished before 1/5/2008!!
:bash::bash:
Oh, my God...
:sleepy:

^^And more bad news: Barcelona commuter trains to the South, airport train included, not working from 20/10 to 12/11/2007!
:ohno:
And the high speed line to Barcelona will not be finished before 1/5/2008!!
:bash::bash:
Oh, my God...
:sleepy:
Source??

Source??
A boss of RENFE (Spanish Railways).
:yes:

High speed train line to Barcelona will open before March 9th 2008, General Elections.
:|
It was expected for this December 21st...
:ohno:

^^ Source? :?

^^ Source? :?
You can read my source in post number 302.
:wink2:

Mmm, if the track is 100% ready ok, but I don't think they take that risk if there are doubts

High speed train line to Barcelona will open before March 9th 2008, General Elections.
:|


I wouldn´t put my money on it.

Can any Spanish people give an update on the other LAV projects please?

Thanks.

Can any Spanish people give an update on the other LAV projects please?

Thanks.
Line from Madrid to Málaga and line from Madrid to Valladolid will open in December the 23rd.
:yes:

Can any Spanish people give an update on the other LAV projects please?

Thanks.
I'm not Spanish and, sadly, don't read or speak Spanish, but if you visit the various SSC
"Infraestructuras de transporte y obras de ingeniería" (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=54) forums
you'll find everything you could ever wish, including the absolutely magnificent photoreportage of Tintin (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/member.php?u=28553).

What's happening near-term?
LAV Madrid(Charmartín)-Segovia-Valladolid (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=321518) (180km) and
LAV Madrid(Atocha)-Córdoba-Málaga (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=312042) (of which the new section to open will be the 55km Antequera-Málaga)
are to start commerical service on 23 December.
Madrid-Zaragoza-Barcelona (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=509672) (of which Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona Sants is new) will not open this year, nor is it likely to open in the first half of next year, due to a tunneling cave-in last month in Bellvitge where the new LAV passes under the existing FGC metro tunnel.

Meanwhile, construction continues on new lines all across the country -- as well as metro and commuter line extensions.
Read -- or just look at the amazing pictures and maps -- in the Spanish Infraestructuras forums and be amazed and envious.

Of course we can. Córcoba-Málaga and Madrid-Valladolid lines are "starting to tense their muscles, like an athlete ready to enter into action". They will opened to public on the 23 (Valladolid) and 24 (Málaga) of december.
Testing Adif's Talgo A330 train in Madrid-Valladolid line passing through Segovia's station at 330km/h. Picture from Pablo (http://www.tranvia.org).
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/pnietop5.jpg[/QUOTE]
First, it's important to say Renfe has implemented a new, way cheaper, fare system, mainly with two new kind of tickets. Web ticket offers a 60% discount if you purchase your tickets 15 days before the train departs. However, yo can't change the ticket for other days. You are allowed only to cancel it, paying half of the ticket's price. Nevertheless, you get trains to Málaga for 30 euros, Valladolid fot 12 euros, or Zaragoza for 17 euros. Just on tourist Class. You also have to book separately your go and return tickets.
Estrella (Star) ticket offers a 40% discount if you purchase the ticket 7 days before train departure and allows you to change the ticket paying an extra-fare but without having to cancel your tickets. Works on both tourist and business class.
Both of this offers depend on availability. Old fares are kept. This new ones do not only apply on HS lines, but in all long distance routes. Renfe has started implementing a new website too, but it will take them sometime to make it work smoothly as I see it.
I think this new fares would be really important to make railways gain more passengers, as many Spaniards preferred the bus since the train was so expensive, specially AVE. So did I, until now... xD. Buses cost just a bit less compared to AVE with these new fares now, but takes longer.
Let's get into the matter, pictures...
Málaga line is completely finished, without major glitches, except for some problems in a tunnel. Tests have started and HS passenger (S-102 Duck and S-103 Velaro) trains have already reached Malaga's new station, at top speeds of 330km/h (Even in those tunnels, so the problems seem solved.).
Pictures from Bule:

Velaros at Antequera Sta-Ana.
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1226/dsc00451mo7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/83/dsc00452kq0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Malaga's Station and Duck S-102:
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/708/dsc00578az2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/1808/dsc00579vu3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6011/dsc00584et2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3314/dsc00585kc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3751/dsc00586ms7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/7568/dsc00588ht6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5780/dsc00589po6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Valladolid line is also in tests and almost complete, with no problems at all I think. Tintin is just a great teacher when it comes to railways and trains, so I'll let his pictures talk for me:
LAV/AVE Madrid-Segovia-Valladolid:
La nueva estación UIC de Segovia

Estado de las obras a 16 de noviembre de 2007

Siguiendo con el repaso de los últimos posts, no podía faltar uno de los puntos singulares de la línea. La estación de Segovia, situada a menos de 2 kilómetros de la boca norte de los túneles de Guadarrama, ya se encuentra prácticamente terminada y se le están dando los últimos retoques a la zona de venta de billetes e instalaciones comerciales.

Como os comentaba y tal y como hemos visto ya en varias ocasiones en este mismo hilo, la visita a la estación de Segovia necesariamente nos conduce también a la boca del lobo:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV1.jpg

Si habéis seguido este hilo, podréis comprobar lo mucho que ha cambiado el panorama. La inmensa zona de instalaciones que se encontraba donde ahora mismo descansa la playa de vías ha sido trasladada a la margen E (la izquierda en esta vista):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV4.jpg

Al fondo, ya podemos ver los 2 falsos túneles que conducen a los tubos que comunican Madrid y Castilla y León:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV2.jpg

Aquí podemos ver cómo las vías generales (la más exterior) va confluyendo en cota con las vías de estacionamiento (las centrales), con la electrificación ya terminada y testada por parte de los S-120:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV6.jpg

Desde el otro extremo del paso, la vista sigue siendo (simétricamente) espectacular:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV24.jpg

Detalle de la confluencia de las vías general y de estacionamiento, en concreto las que se dirigen al norte (pese a que la foto esté hecha sentido Madrid):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV26.jpg

Ahora mismo los trabajos se centran en retirar todos los materiales de obra, que como podéis ver, hace un par de semanas eran abundantes:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV28.jpg

Un vistazo ahora al norte y el singular edificio aparece diáfano:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV11.jpg

Nunca deja de admirarme la singular configuración de este nuevo nudo de la alta velocidad en España:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV13.jpg

Vías generales y de estacionamiento: la diferencia de cota comienza a crecer a medida que nos acercamos a la estación:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV16.jpg

Todos los elementos de superestructura se encuentran ya funcionando al 100%:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV14.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV19.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV20.jpg

Hemos llegado ya al edificio, que promete unas vistas espectaculares de las circulaciones pasantes (que a día de hoy ya han surcado las vías generales a 300 km/h):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV41.jpg

La zona de acceso a los andenes, servidos con escaleras mecánicas y ascensores de última generación:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV38.jpg

Tal y como comentaba hace ya meses, en esta foto podemos ver perfectamente las pantallas que se han instalado en las vías generales para aislarlas, dado que por ellas van a circular los trenes a su máxima velocidad:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV36.jpg

Una vez dentro del edificio, la verdad es que el tono de la piedra y la abundante luz lo hacen muy acogedor:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV51.jpg

Los relojes Festina lucen bastante bien en la zona de paneles y acceso a los andenes:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV42.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV46.jpg

He aquí uno de los 2 ascensores (este para las circulaciones sentido Valladolid) con los que ha sido dotada la estación:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV48.jpg

Como he comentado otras veces, los colores y la nueva tipografía de la señalética de ADIF me encantan:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV43.jpg

Aquí tenemos el ascensor para los trenes que se dirijan a la capital:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV54.jpg

Y una de las escaleras mecánicas:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV53.jpg

Esos bancos prometen unas vistas espectaculares para cualquier aficionado:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV44.jpg

Concretamente, estas:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV50.jpg

De vuelta en los exteriores, una muestra del enorme desnivel entre vías:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV33.jpg

En esta foto vemos como 2 de las vías de estacionamiento llegan a su topera, mientras que las otras 2 se incorporan ya a las vías generales sentido Valladolid. En breve se encontrarán con el túnel de la Fuentecilla (el menor de los 4 que conforman la línea):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV31.jpg

A un mayor nivel de detalle vemos el perfecto estado de vía y electrificación:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV34.jpg

No podía despedirme de la estación de Segovia sin esta ya clásica perspectiva:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV60.jpg

Con algo más de zoom ya se intuye la zona de andenes S, y el efecto óptico de tobogán que presentan las vías de estacionamiento (recordemos que no tienen pendiente alguna) es si cabe más curioso:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV61.jpg

Hasta aquí la visita a la estación, pero aprovecho para dejaros aquí alguna fotillo más que saqué camino de Valladolid.

La LAV llegando a Garcillán desde Segovia:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV70.jpg

A punto de cruzar el río Moros, con la boca del túnel de Tabladillo (2.751 m) al fondo:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV68.jpg

El espectacular salto de carnero de Olmedo, con su característica curva de r=15.000:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV76.jpg

Forzando la máquina, una de las 319 que ha venido probando el ERTMS se dirigía hacia Segovia:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV81.jpg

Aquí la veíamos llegar desde Valdestillas:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV77.jpg

Y finalmente, uno de los Alvia Madrid-Gijón circulando por la Imperial adosado al ramal de acceso al cambiador de Valdestillas, con la LAV Madrid-Valladolid pasando bajo el PS que se ve en última instancia:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/16NOV07/SGGUIOMAR16NOV83.jpg
Una vez que la LAV supera El Goloso y se aleja del monte de El Pardo, su trazado se vuelve mucho menos sinuoso y ya parece el propio de una línea de alta velocidad del s. XXI. Atraviesa con una gran recta la zona del Soto de Viñuelas (punto que alberga el PB de Tres Cantos) y se lanza hacia el cerro de San Pedro con amplias curvas de r=6.000 y suaves cambios de rasante que, al aplicar un fuerte zoom, resultan así de espectaculares:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV7.jpg

El ambiente respira tranquilidad por los cuatro costados, y las vacas pacen tranquilamente ajenas al progreso tecnológico:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV15.jpg

Un último obstáculo antes de llegar a los túneles de San Pedro: el curvo viaducto de El Salobral (748 m):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV8.jpg

Esta será, sin mucho lugar a la duda, uno de los lugares favoritos para los que nos acerquemos a fotografiar los trenes que surquen la línea:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV9.jpg

Al fondo asoman ya los túneles de San Pedro, los terceros en longitud de la línea:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV25.jpg

Las pilas alcanzan los 40 metros:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV12.jpg

Y, abusando de zoom digital, podemos ver los trabajos de remate de instalaciones en la boca de los túneles, que ya tienen instalados los sistemas de protección frente a caída de objetos y que van a ver conectado durante esta misma semana su centro autotransformador:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV21.jpg

Seguimos camino hacia el norte y nos encontramos con otro de los puntos de peregrinación de la línea: el viaducto de Arroyo del Valle visto desde la M-625:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV100.jpg

Enclavado en un precioso espacio de la geografía madrileña, se ha integrado perfectamente con la naturaleza después de una DIA muy severa que modificó sustancialmente el proyecto inicial:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV97.jpg

Su pendiente inicial de 17,5 milésimas sentido Valladolid se suaviza mucho al llegar al estribo norte, como puede apreciarse en esta foto:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV83.jpg

E incluso mejor en esta otra:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV86.jpg

La sucesión de pilas (hasta 27) y apoyos es espectacular vista tan de cerca:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV79.jpg

Luces de 66 metros (salvo el arco central, que es doble) y una altura de pilas de casi 80 metros hacen de este viaducto una maravilla para los aficionados a la ingeniería civil:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV79.jpg

El canto del tablero aumenta en los apoyos hasta los 5 metros:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV76.jpg

A algo más de 34 kilómetros de Madrid nos encontramos la junta de dilatación del estribo norte, señalizada perfectamente:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV93.jpg

Con el cerramiento instalado y las simulaciones comerciales en marcha, el tramo está completamente terminado:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV72.jpg

Y los 25 kV a 50 Hz, listos para propulsar los trenes a más de 300 km/h (a día de hoy se han alcanzado los 334 km/h con el A-330 de ADIF):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV74.jpg

Sentido Valladolid y tras tocar tierra, la LAV se dirige a toda máquina hacia el PB/PAET de Miraflores de la Sierra:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV89.jpg

Al fondo, los quintos túneles ferroviarios más importantes del mundo:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV90.jpg

La electrificación siempre resulta visualmente atractiva:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV94.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV95.jpg

Despedimos la zona de Arroyo del Valle con esta vista general:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV67.jpg

Y nos metemos en faena con el PAET de Miraflores. Todo listo:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV33.jpg

Desde el feeder negativo (-25 kV) se alimentan los sistemas de calefacción de agujas, alumbrado de túneles, señalización y comunicaciones, a través de un seccionador y un transformador situados en un poste metálico similar a los de la propia catenaria. El feeder positivo o de subestación alimenta directamente los equipos eléctricos de los trenes. En esta foto, vemos perfectamente las conexiones con los cable-feeder:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV37.jpg

Y aquí tenemos los pórticos de conexión de los 2 feeders al centro autotransformador:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV41.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV64.jpg

La tipología de las ménsulas es variada, y quizá esta sea una de las más vistosas:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV48.jpg

En esta foto algo más general vemos todos los componentes del sistema de electrificación, con los 2 cable-feeder en la parte superior (el positivo por encima del negativo):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV28.jpg

Señal de proximidad a túneles:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV52.jpg

Último obstáculo antes de llegar a Guadarrama: el viaducto de Majalahita:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV29.jpg

Los túneles, imponentes al fondo:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV31.jpg

Señalización, electrificación, vía … toda la obra ha sido ya entregada al ADIF:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV49.jpg

Y justo en ese momento, zas, un sonido particular (la práctica ausencia del mismo) y he aquí uno de los primeros Alvia realizando simulaciones comerciales en esta LAV:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV59.jpg

A lo lejos ya, hacía sonar su bocina al entrar en los túneles de Guadarrama:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/27NOV07/MAD27NOV61.jpg

Esto ha sido todo. Espero haber ilustrado bien el estado de las obras.
Thanks again Tintin. He has many many more pictures (I wonder how much space do them take on his HDD... :P) in Spain's forums. Have a look in there.

Here you have some links:

- Madrid - Barcelona - French Border (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=509672)
- Madrid - Córdoba - Málaga (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=312042)
- Madrid - Segovia - Valladolid (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=321518)
- Madrid - Cuenca - Valencia - Alicante - Murcia (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=140615)
- Olmedo - Orense - Santiago de Compostela (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=458128)
- Basque Y (Vitoria - Bilbao - San Sebastián) (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=312200)
- Non-specific high speed thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=374236)

There´s plenty of information out there.

Madrid-Zaragoza-Barcelona (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=509672) (of which Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona Sants is new) will not open this year, nor is it likely to open in the first half of next year, due to a tunneling cave-in last month in Bellvitge where the new LAV passes under the existing FGC metro tunnel.

Source?

Thanks for the info guys. Great photos. Pity that the Barcelona link will be late, but these things happen. Better to make sure things are done properly than rush them.

I see the speed of 330km/h mentioned several times. Is this the expected speed in regular service now?

^^

350 km/h will be top speed on Spain's HSLs (except first of all, Madrid-Sevilla, "just" 300 km/h) from next year' summer. Talgo S-102 "Duck" is able to reach 330 on commercial use. Siemens S-103 "Velaro" reaches 350.

Madrid - Córdoba - Sevilla / Málaga has a commercial speed of 300Km/h in less than 10Km, normal top speed is arround 250Km/h. The new extension to Málaga has a top speed of 350Km/h

Commercial and top speeds are two different things.

While top speed can be (today) up to 320 km/h, commercial (= average) speed usually is not higher than 220 km/h.

Commercial and top speeds are two different things.

While top speed can be (today) up to 320 km/h, commercial (= average) speed usually is not higher than 220 km/h.


Sorry, but commercial speed is not average speed. AVE has a commercial speed (call it cruise speed if you want) of 300 km/h, while average speed is about 220 km/h. In Madrid-Tarragona HSL, AVE trains run almost full time at 300 km/h, but commercial stops decrease average speeds.

Commercial and top speeds are two different things.

While top speed can be (today) up to 320 km/h, commercial (= average) speed usually is not higher than 220 km/h.

Ave has the world record of average speed between Madrid-Camp de Tarragona...with an average speed of 267km/h

En España, en el pasado mes de abril, con un tren serie 102 en doble y circulando a la velocidad máxima de 300 km/h se hizo el recorrido de Madrid Puerta de Atocha a Camp de Tarragona (por los by passes) en 1 hora y 57 minutos sin rebasar las velocidades máximas lo que supone una media de 267,12 km/h. El tiempo con que se prevé empezar la explotación de la línea de Madrid a Barcelona para los trenes sin paradas (y de momento a velocidad máxima de 300 km/h) es de 2 horas y 35 minutos es decir, a una media de 240,4 km/h.

El récord de los franceses está en:

263,3 km/h de media entre Lyon y St Exupéry que hay 289.6 kms, con topes de 320 km/h en 2005.


Por lo tanto es NUEVO RECORD MUNDIAL. Y encima con más mérito, sólo 300 km/h y durante 572 kms!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In English:

In Spain, in the last April, with a train series 102 in double composition and circulating to the maximum speed of 300 km/h did the travel between Madrid-Puerta de Atocha to Campo de Tarragona (for the by passes) in 1 hour and 57 minutes without the maximum speeds exceeded what supposes an average of 267,12 km/h. The time with which it is foreseen to begin the explotation(development) of the line of Madrid to Barcelona for the trains without stops (and at the moment to maximum speed of 300 km/h) is 2 hours and 35 minutes is to say, to an average of 240,4 km/h.
The record of the French rail is in:

263,3 km/h of average between(among) Lyons and St Exupéry that there are 289.6 kms, with ceilings of 320 km/h in 2005.


Therefore it is A NEW WORLD RECORD. And above with more merit, only 300 km/h and during 572 kms!!!


I don't know if it's correct, please, change some words if are incorrect

Ave has the world record of average speed between Madrid-Camp de Tarragona...with an average speed of 267km/h

Actually TGV Est has the world record average speed of 279.3km/h. See http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_view/article/2007/09/7742/new_lines_boost_rails_high_speed_performance.html

Actually TGV Est has the world record average speed of 279.3km/h. See http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_view/article/2007/09/7742/new_lines_boost_rails_high_speed_performance.html
In commercial service, like the Spanish record?
:?

In commercial service, like the Spanish record?
:?

Yes, all the services in the linked article are regular commercial services.

Congratulations Spain!

^^

Thanks! ;)

By the way... you should visit Spain. More info at spain.info

First TV commercials for the new HSL to Valladolid.

BLhyqWI3RHE

"It no longer matters the distance from two points, but the time it takes to cross it"

A nice photo taked by Tintín near Madrid, with the test train A-330...

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/A-330ElGoloso.jpg

^^ I was just going to post that picture. Amazing photo!

This test train is heading north from the city of Madrid along the soon-to-be inaugurated HSL to the north towards the capital of the Castile and Leon region, Valladolid. Only a little while longer before this line opens up the Spanish northwest to improved journey times to Madrid!

:drool:

A nice photo taked by Tintín near Madrid, with the test train A-330...

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/A-330ElGoloso.jpg
^^One of the 4 towers of Madrid CTBA is missing in this photo...
:sly:

^^

No no, Bitxo...

Sacyr Tower hides Caja Madrid Tower :yes:

^^ Not again ... :ohno:

It ain´t missing, Sacyr Tower & Caja Madrid Tower happen to be so close (as I explained in the national thread) that they look as if they were a single building. Take a closer look and you´ll see the slightly rounded shape of the Sacyr Tower and also the straight lines of the Caja Madrid Tower.

Did you think I was gonna miss one of our beauties? No way!

^^Me encanta esta foto, pero... ¡Falta una torre!^^
:drool::drool:

No falta ninguna, lo que pasa que la Sacyr y la Caja Madrid se solapan. Si uno se fija bien a la derecha de la foto se ve el contorno más redondeado de la Sacyr y las aristas de la Caja Madrid.

Amazing pic, Tintin.
Symbolizes the progress of Spain

Symbolizes the progress of Spain

Funny ... more or less that´s what I was thinking of when I took it.

It is simply a breath-taking picture Tintin, and really sums up nicely Madrid's steps into the 21st century. I hope you did not mind it being posted. ;)

It is simply a breath-taking picture Tintin, and really sums up nicely Madrid's steps into the 21st century. I hope you did not mind it being posted. ;)

Are you kidding me? It is one of these little things that make you proud of being a member of SSC ... This is what we should be here for ... learning and sharing!

^^ Not again ... :ohno:

It ain´t missing, Sacyr Tower & Caja Madrid Tower happen to be so close (as I explained in the national thread) that they look as if they were a single building. Take a closer look and you´ll see the slightly rounded shape of the Sacyr Tower and also the straight lines of the Caja Madrid Tower.

Did you think I was gonna miss one of our beauties? No way!



No falta ninguna, lo que pasa que la Sacyr y la Caja Madrid se solapan. Si uno se fija bien a la derecha de la foto se ve el contorno más redondeado de la Sacyr y las aristas de la Caja Madrid.
¡Gracias! Mercès! Thanks!
:wink2:

Some magnificient pics by Tintín again!!

The test train A330 runing near 300km/h...tomorrow will be inagurated the new HSL Madrid-Segovia-Valladolid...

:P

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/Tabladillo.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/AcelerandoenValdestillas.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/SalidadeSanPedro.jpg

^^Great news finally!
:dance:

Today, Spanish PM, José Luis Rodriguez Zapatero opened Córdoba-Málaga HSL, as he did yesterday with Madrid-Valladolid line. HS Network in Spain is growing amazingly fast and, sooner or later, although its opening date has been delayed many times already, Madrid-Barcelona HSL will also enter in service during 2008 . Valencia, Alicante, Albacete and Cuenca will join the HS club around 2010. At that time, the Spanish government expects to have more than 2200 km of HS lines, surpassing Japan and France, where High Speed Trains were born.

Some pics that show the openings of the lines. I'll also post videos that show how difficult is to build these things up here in Spain since this country is the second country in Europe with more mountains, just after Switzerland.

Madrid-Segovia-Valladolid:

http://foto-cache.nortecastilla.es/jpg/0/6/1198322532660.jpg
http://foto-cache.nortecastilla.es/jpg/2/8/1198321771782.jpg
http://foto-cache.nortecastilla.es/jpg/9/8/1198323858789.jpg
http://foto-cache.nortecastilla.es/jpg/5/7/1198323918775.jpg

tvuKfvMpyzY1jFlqUr20K8

Madrid-Córdoba-Málaga:
http://foto-cache.diariosur.es/jpg/2/8/1198429997882.jpg
http://foto-cache.diariosur.es/jpg/1/7/1198429998771.jpg
http://foto-cache.diariosur.es/jpg/7/9/1198430001997.jpg
http://foto-cache.diariosur.es/jpg/9/2/1198430066529.jpg
http://foto-cache.diariosur.es/jpg/2/7/1198430067472.jpg
http://foto-cache.diariosur.es/jpg/4/7/1198430132574.jpg

Pw-5lzSfOko6ck31Roy3Gc
n3VEQuN44gwGaKMktKrO28

This is how a spanish train change national gauge to international gauge and the other way around. It's really interesting to see how it works:

EdOKVFx5Yx0

That is fantastic. Hopefully California US is next! Voters go to the polls in November 2008 to decide whether or not to barrow $10 billion to get HSR kicked off with an initial line between Los Angeles and San Francisco. $30 billion total is needed... and the US gov is anticpated to prvide $10b of that and the private sector the same.

Some pics that show the openings of the lines. I'll also post videos that show how difficult is to build these things up here in Spain since this country is the second country in Europe with more mountains, just after Switzerland.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Europe_topography_map_en.png

Austria, Italy and Norway aren't flat either.

Except the lines in the plain just south of the Alps, italian railways have a lot of long tunnels and bridges: http://home.no.net/lotsberg/data/italia/rail.html

Really building motorways and HSLs in Switzerland, Italy, Norway and Spain is really difficult.

Spain has an aditionnal problem due to its inequal population distribution with big cities separated by long distances.

This problematic mixing among complicated orography, long distances, low density population with an inequal distribution is the cause of the high cost of this kind of infraestructures in Spain.

Go go Spain. Great news!

on which lines AVE service is served by Velaro, which El Pato, and which series 100 (TGV)? or maybe there are no rules, so all could be seen at any high speed lines?

also, are all AVE trains now served with those trains (100, 102, 103), or there are still AVE's with locomotion 252 and Talgo cars? if yes, which lines?

and last - on which lines and services can El Patito be seen?

muchas gracias!

The HSL comes to Bilbao (http://bilbaoenconstruccion.nireblog.com/post/2007/12/26/entrada-de-la-alta-velocidad-en-bilbao-las-2-opciones)

:cheers:

on which lines AVE service is served by Velaro, which El Pato, and which series 100 (TGV)? or maybe there are no rules, so all could be seen at any high speed lines?

100 emu train on Madrid-Sevilla line
102 on: Madrid-Málaga, Madrid-Zaragoza and Madrid-Huesca
103 on: Madrid-Camp de Tarragona, Madrid-Málaga and Madrid-Sevilla

also, are all AVE trains now served with those trains (100, 102, 103), or there are still AVE's with locomotion 252 and Talgo cars? if yes, which lines?

AVE services only served by 100/102/103 (*). 252 and Talgo cars actually runs on lines:
- Barcelona-Camp de Tarragona-Zaragoza-Madrid-Sevilla-Cádiz (on HSL between Roda de Barà and Sevilla-Majarabique)
- Madrid-Cádiz (on HSL to Sevilla-Majarabique)
- Madrid-Granada (252 locomotive only to Antequera Santa Ana, from this point by diesel locomotive on classic line.)
- Madrid-Algeciras (only to Antequera Sta.Ana, same case of Granada)
- Madrid-Huelva (on HSL to Sevilla-Majarabique)
- Madrid-Logroño (on HSL to Plasencia de Jalón)
- Madrid-Pamplona (on HSL to Plasencia de Jalón)
- Madrid-Castejón-Hendaia (on HSL to Plasencia de Jalón)

(*): High speed regional services, called AVANT they served actually by 104 emu trains, this services are:
- Madrid-Toledo
- Madrid-Puertollano
- Córdoba-Sevilla

And from 3rd January, 2008 Madrid-Galicia between Madrid, Segovia and Valdesetillas change gauge installations (from this point by diesel locomotive, via Zamora). In all cases in 100% electric route they cange locomotive in change gauge installations. This service are called Altaria.

and last - on which lines and services can El Patito be seen?

muchas gracias!

On Alvia service, they are:

Madrid-Valladolid-Burgos-Hendaia
Madrid-Valladolid-Burgos-Bilbao
Madrid-Valladolid-León-Oviedo-Gijón
Madrid-Valladolid-Santander

All this service run on HSL from Madrid to Valladolid, except Hendaia service who cange to the classic line in Valdesetillas.

Madrid-Valladolid-Burgos-Bilbao


The Patito:D in Bilbao's Abando Train Station


Os pongo las fotos:
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190038_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190038_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190039_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190039_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190040_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190040_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190042_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190042_redimensionar.jpg)

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190043_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190043_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190045_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190045_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190046_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190046_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190047_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190047_redimensionar.jpg)

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190048_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190048_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190051_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190051_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190052_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190052_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190053_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190053_redimensionar.jpg)

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190055_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190055_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190058_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190058_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190059_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190059_redimensionar.jpg) http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/th_PC190060_redimensionar.jpg (http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190060_redimensionar.jpg)

En tranvía he visto una foto que me ha gustado mucho. Es del usuario carril. La ha sacado en Artomaña http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/nuevas/carril02.jpg

UT tnx for detailed information!

This is how a spanish train change national gauge to international gauge and the other way around. It's really interesting to see how it works:

EdOKVFx5Yx0

this is so cool!

That was excellant growingup. I did not realise how easy it was to change guage. Good to see Spain leading the way in high speed rail infrastructure.

That was excellant growingup. I did not realise how easy it was to change guage. Good to see Spain leading the way in high speed rail infrastructure.
If it is so easy to change gauge between Valladolid and Bilbao, why does it take so many time to do the same thing between Hendaye and Irun or between Cerbere and Port Bou ?

Because between Madrid and Bilbao/Gijón/Barcelona also the engines change gauge, but between Spain and France they don't. In Irún the Spanish engine is detached, and a shunt engine is attached to the other end of the train. The shunter push the Talgo set into the "gauge changer", then the French engine is attached to the train.

Within Spain, often but not ever, the train just has to slow, and the whole set with the engines change gauge.

^^ And aslo beacause the fast change of gauge only occurs with modern trains thanks to its improved technology.

Correct.

With new class 120 and class 130 EMUs change is fast because they are EMUs and they don't need replace their engine.

When we are talking about international night trains between Spain and France, Italy and Switzerland you have to considerer they are Talgo cars sets pulled by independent engines, so change of gauge is more complicated.

^^ And aslo beacause the fast change of gauge only occurs with modern trains thanks to its improved technology.

It's not a matter of technology, but of the type of the train: engine+wagons, or EMU.

Technology development has been fundamental to reach actual fast gauge change. You have to considerer that gauge variable drive bogies was a dream a few years ago, and this development has been essential to design new EMUs.

A few years ago we only had Talgo cars pulled by engines, because without gauge variable drive bogies pulled cars could change of gauge, but you had to change the engine. You have reason, it's a matter of type of train, and the type of trains, or at least, new variable gauge EMUs is directly connected with development of new technology (Talgo and CAF).

It's not a matter of technology, but of the type of the train: engine+wagons, or EMU.

Yet the type of train is technology too :?

Within Spain, often but not ever, the train just has to slow, and the whole set with the engines change gauge.
It's very interresting but I think that the Spanish Engines, that can change gauge, could run until Hendaye and Cerbere...but maybe is that too simplistic.

Currently, Spanish units that can change gauge are class 120 and class 130 emus and some units from class 594 equiped with BRAVA bogies.

Electrical units can not run on French tracks because voltage system on Southern France network is 1,5 kV DC, but in Spain conventional network uses 3 kV DC. UIC lines in Spain use 25 kV AC but in France this voltage system is only used in HSLs and in Nothern network. So, there is a problem due to voltage incompatibility. Supossely, French Government was going to change voltage system in Southern network, but I think it has been stopped.

On the other hand, Renfe class 594 is a DMU but it's not aproved to run on French network, so it can be use for international links.

Modifying a 3kV train to run on 1.5kV should be relatively easy though

Another video of a Talgo S-130 changing its gauge from Iberian (1,668 mm) to UIC (1,435 mm):

ZiH4kt14yGw


CAF S-120 changing the pantograph from 3kV to 25kV:

FKeYw7bnNwk

CAF S-120 changing the pantograph from 3kV to 25kV:

FKeYw7bnNwk

so wait, the overhead cable stays the same, but only the train's pantograph changes? does that mean that both currents are flowing through the overhead cables?

Modifying a 3kV train to run on 1.5kV should be relatively easy though

Yes no doubt. But you have to change electric system. In any case curently you can find train that can run on four different voltage system. A good example is Thalys PKBA unit sets. Renfe have some old locomotive adapted for 1,5 kV CC from some old lines that had that voltage system, but it hapenned many years ago and I don't know if these locomotives keep these electric systems, but in any case we are talking about quite old engines.

Another video of a Talgo S-130 changing its gauge from Iberian (1,668 mm) to UIC (1,435 mm):

ZiH4kt14yGw


CAF S-120 changing the pantograph from 3kV to 25kV:

FKeYw7bnNwk
Very interesting videos.
:okay:
Many thanks!
:wink2:

Yes no doubt. But you have to change electric system. In any case curently you can find train that can run on four different voltage system. A good example is Thalys PKBA unit sets. Renfe have some old locomotive adapted for 1,5 kV CC from some old lines that had that voltage system, but it hapenned many years ago and I don't know if these locomotives keep these electric systems, but in any case we are talking about quite old engines.

As they are both DC, simplistically, to make a 1.5K work on a 3K power supply just change the transformer to have a different output, or add a voltage halving transformer that can be switched into the circuit when required. It's electrically very simple. The difficulty would be if there is space in the engine, if it's cost effective, if the engine would draw too much current for the other country's power supply to cope with, has a start-up spike that the power supply can't cope with, or it can cope too well and the engine burns itself out by instantaneously drawing too much power, not mention secondary effects on signalling systems that may be problematic and other issues. Most of these wouldn't be very likely but they still have to be extensively tested before deploying a loco on a new network.

Very interesting how the Talgo 250/ Alvia 130...change its gauge...

Thanks Cicerón!!

It is very probable that the AVE Madrid - Barcelona is opened the public between February 20-28... The date even not this one confirmed officially, but this way it is rumored and surely it will be like that...

A proof of it is the traffic of trains AVE up to approximately 10 km from the arrival to Barcelona Sants

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4837/dscn9225hv2.jpg

The AVE 103 at the St. Boi Bridge! Thanks Sanlucar for that impressive pic!


Also we have some new videos of the AVE's trainsets:

RBV0rNMMaWU&NR
s_qXVuSqxKY
wSprUI5crlM

Great video update!. Thanks sdf11.

^^ in that map, blue lines are HSL in use, 25 kV and standard gauge. The red and dotted lines, are the same, but under construction (even if some stretches have yet been opened).

Green lines are planned.

They will be initially built at iberian gauge (1668 mm) but with convertible sleepers (1668 OR1435), electrification will probably be in 25 kV from the beginning.

Some are yet under construction, like Pontevedra-Santiago de Compostela-A Coruña. I've done Santiago-A Coruña by train in august 2006, on some streches my train run on the old line, on some other it used the new. Temporarly, 1668 mm and diesel traction.

Blue and red lines are or will be only-passenger 350 km/h lines, the greens ones miexed passenger/freight, with 200 to 220 km/h as speed limit (not really HSL). We will see how many green lines will be built.

I hope that iberic network will be converted to standard gauge in the future, especially for freight traffic. Rail freight traffic between Spain and France is very low, about 6 million tonnes each yerar :(

^^ Main trunck rail lines will be DEDICATED to AVE network at speeds of 300kmh or more ... secundary lines and MAIN regional corridors will be 200/250kmh due to local usage ...

Compare this:
http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/spainmap/images/Spain_trainmap.gif (planned "HSL" lines)
and this:
http://bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/iberian-peninsula/iberian-peninsula.gif (existing network)

They shows about the same lines, that is, neraly all railways are planned to be upgraded to 200 km/h and UIC gauge.

It's true that Spain is planning to convert all of its network to standard gauge, it's true that al "green" line are planend to sue standard gauge in the future, but not from the beginning.

^^ This is where most people make their mistakes ... the grren lines are NOT (in most cases) conversions of older routes ... they simply just follow the same stretch of terrain due to the peninsula mountainousness. :cheers:

Once again, I have travelled the Santiago-A Coruña line in summer 2006, and it used iberian gauge and diesel trains even on the upgraded parts. Some parts of this line have yet been upgraded, some not = my train used the old line here, then the new there, and again the old line, then the new...

At least this line is being (re)built with iberian gauge and diesel traction, and will be converted later. Zoltan here or on Tranvia.org will confirm that.

^^ You got a HUGE problem .... you GET the ONLY case where something aplies ..i. and generalise to everywhere else ...

Atlantic corridos (Corunha-Vigo) is being doubled and realigned to 200/250kmh running ... only some (very few in fact) "regional" lines will suffer the same faith ... but some stretches or "renewed" lines are in fact 250kmh (could be even 300kmh in the future) ... but the cost of dedicated 300kmh + mixed (reusing the old lines for regional/freight) is lower than the extensive usage of 220/250kmh lines ... and the gains are much higher. :cheers:

So:
Phase one: new line, iberian gauge, 3 kV or diesel traction
Phase two: the new line will be converted to standard gauge and 25 kV
The "Corredor Atlántico" follows this scheme, and there is nothing shame in that.

Maybe some lines will built, or rebuilt, with standard gauge from the beginning, probably the lines near the French border, like the Y-Basca (Bilbao/Vitoria-San Sebastián-Irún-France).

I'm still unsure about what will happen with the Pajares base tunnel, anyway (León-Oviedo). Iberic or standard gauge...I think Zoltan answered that question somewhere.

^^ You get it completely wrong ... for example:

Barcelona-FrenchBorder will be mixed 300kmh track from day one ... nothern Spanish lines are 100% new lines ... wonder where y

Lisboa(Portugal)-Badajoz-Madrid will be a +300kmh line CLOSE to the existing one that will be kept open for regional and freight train (and eventualy will be converted to UIC gauge) ... secundary connections will be 1.iberian+1uic or will even only receive new dual gauge sleepers and converted to UIC somewhere in the future.

You will get 3 or even 4 tracks almost everywhere in those green lines on that map ... :lol:

Yes yes, Spain is the most developped and richest country in the world, the spanish companies are the biggest on the planet, and spanish trains are the better in Europe. Ok?
But this doesn't mean that you can insult my country. You must be more modest, and you must have more respect for the others countries, many of which are more developped, more important, and richer than Spain.
This thread is called "new HSL in Spain", no "Spain vs Italy" or "Spain vs Germany" or "Spain vs England". If you want to say these things open a new thread:"Spain, the better country in the world".
I hope that this (Off Topic) dicussion ends now.

Saludos a todos amigos espanoles :wave:

:ohno:

Yes no doubt. But you have to change electric system. In any case curently you can find train that can run on four different voltage system. A good example is Thalys PKBA unit sets. Renfe have some old locomotive adapted for 1,5 kV CC from some old lines that had that voltage system, but it hapenned many years ago and I don't know if these locomotives keep these electric systems, but in any case we are talking about quite old engines.

Different Signaling , current , gauge ... we should just BUILD a batch of "Iberia Express" LMBP (like thalys or Eurostar trains)

But there is no need to retrofit old trains .... new ones are being built and much more will be necessary in the next few years.

Lusitania + Sud express + all spain<->france express trains should benefit from it. << only naming international/cross border trains :cheers:

Maiby the best solutions would be to just grab some Talgo 130 locomotives and make them 4 voltage ???

Here we are 3 pic's of Tonetti from the Sant Boi Bridge, very near of Barcelona Sants:


http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/Velaro1.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/Velaro2.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/Velaro3.jpg

...

Menuda preciosidad - What a beauty.

:drool:

Great photos!
:drool::drool:
Only 5 or 6 km. before Barcelona city!
:happy:
Its'coming, it's coming soon!!
:dance:

Yeah, finally! I´m so excited :banana:

Wow what a pictures! :happy:

HSL Madrid Puerta de Atocha-Málaga María Zambrano:

QC4YBHoaWfY&NR

The first AVE talgo Test Train arrives at sants station in Barcelona!!


http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3126/btcapasantsxw3.jpg


:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :master: :master: :master: :master: :master: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:


:dance:

2 videos by my self:


Two AVE's 103 series Velaro E, in double composition...2 trains, 1608 seats...:nuts:

Filmed at Lleida Station:

Camp de Tarragona-Madrid Puerta de Atocha:

HOK5PyUS_2Y

gQjXWsD9aio


Madrid Puerta de Atocha-Camp de Tarragona:

T08gda8MOG0
P018-RQgMog


Regards!

How can they open a new line without testing runs?

For the Lötschebrg Basis Tunnel or the Milano-Bologna HSL trains ran, or will run, without passengers for at least 6 months!

How can they open a new line without testing runs?

For the Lötschebrg Basis Tunnel or the Milano-Bologna HSL trains ran, or will run, without passengers for at least 6 months!

The line is not open yet, the green and white train above is a test train.

How can they open a new line without testing runs?

For the Lötschebrg Basis Tunnel or the Milano-Bologna HSL trains ran, or will run, without passengers for at least 6 months!

From Tarragona (the end of the line right now) to St. Boi...10km for bcn sants...has tested for many months also, the only thing that they are testing now is the entry to sants, alone 3 or 4 km, which the trains will do to very low speed and which it is not necessary any more tests that these, but the whole line (this way like of valladolid and that of Malaga) has been tested for several months and have crossed hundreds of thousands of kilometres...

^^ I know, the green train is (part of the) the prototype Talgo XXI used by Adif for test runs.

So, the longest stretch that has not been tested until yesterday, is only 15 km long? The other part from Taragona has been tested yet? I have misunderstood!

:hi:

^^ I know, the green train is (part of the) the prototype Talgo XXI used by Adif for test runs.

So, the longest stretch that has not been tested until yesterday, is only 15 km long? The other part from Taragona has been tested yet? I have misunderstood!

:hi:

I quote the boss of renfe in a spanish forum tranvia.org...



On 2008-02-03 23:44, Renfe-Operadora wrote:
Así se encuentran actualmente las obras en su accesos a Barcelona.

::Camp de Tarragona-Sant Joan Despí
Obras finalizadas
Pruebas finalizadas

::Sant Joan Despí-Sant Boi
Obras finalizadas
Pruebas finalizadas

::Sant Boi-L´Hospitalet
Obras finalizadas
En pruebas

::L´Hospitalet-La Torrassa
Montaje de vía finalizado próximo 5 Febrero
Instalación de catenaria y señalización en marcha
Inicio pruebas del ADIF con trenes diesel desde 4 Febrero

::La Torrassa-Sants
Montaje de vía finalizado
Instalación de catenaria y señalización en marcha
Inicio pruebas del ADIF con trenes diesel desde 4 Febrero

Saludos Cordiales

[ Este mensaje fue editado por: Renfe-Operadora on 03-02-2008 23:45 ]



I try to traduce well:


On 2008-02-03 23:44, Renfe-Operadora wrote:
It currently works in their access to Barcelona.

::Camp de Tarragona-Sant Joan Despí
Works completed
Tests Completed


::Sant Joan Despí-Sant Boi
Works completed
Tests Completed


::Sant Boi-L´Hospitalet
Works competed
Testing


::L´Hospitalet-La Torrassa
Mounting track completed next February 5
Installing catenary and signage in place
Start testing ADIF with diesel trains from Yesterday


::La Torrassa-Sants
Mounting track completed
Installing catenary and signage in place
Start testing ADIF with diesel trains from Yesterday


Best Regards.

[ Este mensaje fue editado por: Renfe-Operadora on 03-02-2008 23:45 ]



So, Sant Boi is around 15km or less to Barcelona Sants Station...the only need to test 15km right now...the tests between Tarragona to Sant Boi starts aproximatly in Summer 2007...

The Line will be opened around 20 February...

How can they open a new line without testing runs?

For the Lötschebrg Basis Tunnel or the Milano-Bologna HSL trains ran, or will run, without passengers for at least 6 months!
The vast majority of the Madrid-Barcelona line already has passanger service (i.e., Madrid to Tarragona).

So there is no need to perform tests on this part of the line, but only the Tarragona-Barcelona part.

The AVE S103 arrives to Barcelona-Sants!!!

tgHzcfFRPac


:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:


:dance:



The next important date will be around 20 February...

The line is finished!!!


This morning I saw the AVE S103 and the Adif test train A-330 at the bellvitge tunnel...


Enjoy it!

JwFIJ__jiNg

:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:

Good work.

What is that strange smoke that comes from under the S-103?

What is that strange smoke that comes from under the S-103?

It's just dust. They should clean up the floor before the great opening, or Velaros' nose would get dirty xD

It's official. Barcelona - Madrid service starts on February the 20th

From Typically Spanish:

The Development Minister has given the date as Wednesday 20th February

The new high speed rail service between Madrid and Barcelona will open to passengers on 20th February, the day before the electoral campaign officially starts for the national poll on 9th March, and two months after the originally-planned inauguration date, 21st December last year. The Development Minister, Magdalena Álvarez, gave the news after a meeting in Barcelona on Tuesday with the President of the Generalitat de Cataluña, José Montilla.

She said tickets will go on sale on line on the Renfe web page from 14th February, and more detailed information is expected from Renfe itself this Wednesday. The Minister added that the last two sections of the line to Girona and the border with France will be contracted later this month.

The first AVE high speed pulled up into Barcelona’s Sants station last Friday morning as part of testing on the new line. It was an eight-wagon Siemens S-103, the train which will be in service on the route.

There was news last week that AVE train drivers have called 10 days of partial stoppages on all AVE services between 19th and 29th February.

I already have my tickets for a direct train :cheer:

How much will it cost a ticket? It would be interesting to compare train vs. flight prices :)

These are the fares in €:
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7630/0000020169ob4.jpg

In the upper chart it's for trains which stop in Zaragoza, Lleida and Tarragona, while the chart below is for direct trains.

Tarifa general (single general ticket), anada y tornada (return general ticket). Estrella and Web are two cheap fares with a limited number of seats available, and Puente AVE is a special single ticket you can use whenever you want.

Timetable
de Via Libre:

http://www.vialibre-ffe.com/images/image/1470_01.jpg

^^ 2h 40m for the direct train gives a average speed of 230km/h, not very fast for a brand new HSR. The fastest one of 2h 30m works out at 248km/h, I though it was going to be faster. Something like 260-270.

The slowest one that takes 3h 23m only average 183km/h, that is very slow for a HSR even if there are many stops on the line.

^^ I thought the same, as the aim was to do it in 2h30m... are they starting at a lower speed and then increase it eventually?

^^ I thought the same, as the aim was to do it in 2h30m... are they starting at a lower speed and then increase it eventually?

That's it.

Around summer, top speed would be set at 350 km/h. Then, AVE+ direct trains would be able to run between MAD and BCN in 2:15 or less :yes:

Can't wait! :)

^^

Me too!! :D

Is it really sure with this speed 350 km/h in the summer???

^^ Those are also official times. Since the have to pay you back when the train is late they stablish a longer trip time just in case. So the direct trains will likely be 2h30', with a top speed of 300KM/h by now.

Video about Basque HSL:

y0LsxNdxG7E
(in english)

TV ad:

fnEXZ1kOSv0
(in spanish)

Alvia arrives to the Basque Country:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190038_redimensionar.jpg
Alvia at Bilbao-Abando station.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190059_redimensionar.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Abando%20s130/PC190055_redimensionar.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Amurrio%20s130%20Alkinar/PC230044_redimensionar.jpg
Alvia near Amurrio.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh59/AxaInt/Amurrio%20s130%20Alkinar/PC230106___redimensionar.jpg
Alvia at Amurrio station.

Photos by Axaber (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/member.php?u=58175).

1st high speed train AVE will depart from BCN to Madrid this Wednesday at 6am, it will arrive to Madrid at 8.38am!
:banana::carrot::pepper::cucumber:

This article appeared in the British Guardian newspaper a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/02/spain.railtravel


The article suggests the top speed will be about 220mph (217 to be exact) or 350kmh.

...edited

S-130 series isn't it? :sly:

This article appeared in the British Guardian newspaper a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/02/spain.railtravel


The article suggests the top speed will be about 220mph (217 to be exact) or 350kmh.

Very interesting to know what are thinking the other countries about us...

Right now the max. speed in the HSL will be 300kmh because the ERMTS is at first level...when it will be upgrade to the second level (maybe this summer) the trains can go at 350kmh...the maxim speed in the world in a commercial service...

We are waiting for that moment...

^^Yesterday by 2pm in Barcelona Sants station:
;)
http://i31.tinypic.com/2dt7h8x.jpg
:happy::happy:

^^ I love this train!

I quote my self from the spanish forum...some pics from yesterday...


Bueno...ahí van las fotos de esta tarde...


Sants está lista al 98%...han quitado ya todas las paredes de los andenes...y la vista desde la via 7/8 es increible...por suerte es la que cojo yo normalmente y me va de lujo...

Por fuera está listo...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1192.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1193.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1194.jpg



Por dentro también está lista...han tirado el tabique que daba a las vias 1-6...y solo falta quitar o limpiar la manpara de cristal que delimita el pasillo de entrada...con la sala del AVE....


http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1195.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1200.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1199.jpg


Entrada de la sala AVE...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1197.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1198.jpg


Los andenes están finiquitados...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1203.jpg


primera sorpresa...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1201.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1202.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1205.jpg


Estaban un poco guarros...pero con la cantidad de polvo que sacaron el otro dia...no me estraña nada...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1204.jpg


La estación estaba sumergida bajo una nube de humo/polvo...incluso arriba en los andenes...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1206.jpg


Y bueno...os presento este papel tan importante que tengo encima de la mesa a mi lado...algo que esperaba hace mucho...y por fin podemos decir...que EL AVE HA LLEGADO A BCN...!!! :avion: :avion: :moto: :banana: :banana: :zenkiu: :zenkiu: :win: :win: :win:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t169/sdf11/S1/DSCN1207bs.jpg


...

ALViA and Velaro look alike.

ALViA train from Barcelona to Madrid and vice versa is going to finish service tomorrow, it will be replaced be the new high speed train AVE.
:yes:
Today with ALViA, from BCN to Madrid: 4 hours.
Tomorrow with AVE, from BCN to Madrid: 2 hours 35 min.
:happy:
The busiest air shuttle of the world is starting to die tomorrow...
:runaway:

The website of Spanish state railways (www.renfe.es) has an absolutely AMAZING video that goes through a trip from Madrid to Barcelona with a birds-eyes view of the vistas during the 670 km trip.

Once you get to www.renfe.es, click: "Alta Velocidad/Madrid-Barcelona/Ver el video," to see the video. You don't need to know Spanish, the images speak for themselves!

Edit: or just watch directly from youtube:

UspbTIMLGJk

^^This will be a reality today at 6am!
:dance:

^^This will be a reality today at 6am!
:dance:


At least!!! :banana::banana:


In 5.30 hours...the first AVE commercial train will go out from Barcelona Sants to Madrid Puerta de Atocha...at the same time in Madrid...one AVE will do the same...


Congratulations for everybody!!!:cheers::cheers:

BCN - MAD
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6930/inauguralbcnmadas8.jpg


MAD - BCN
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4383/inauguralmadbcnnq5.jpg

Habemus AVE !!!

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

Near Guadalajara... the first train Barcelona - Madrid :rock:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1701/pict0016mw3.jpg

^^I was in the 4th AVE and I was interviewed by TV3.
:cool:
I will post some pics tomorrow. The trip was great!
:wink2:

How have things been going today with the innauguration of MAD-BCN service?

How have things been going today with the innauguration of MAD-BCN service?
Everything OK for the moment. Some delays of 2-3 minutes, nothing else.
;)

Vid on Youtube of todays first train. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFPmUWcHSg

Everything OK for the moment. Some delays of 2-3 minutes, nothing else.
;)

And 8 minutes in advance in many other services, as the first ones early in the morning.

So BCN - MAD record in commercial service is now 2h 30', and it will be reduced to 2h20' in the near-mid future.

Well done to RENFE. Bring on the 350km/h :)

^^ Renfe only operates the service. Infraestructure and stations are built and run by ADIF.

Renfe pays a fee to ADIF, as other operators will do when the market is liberalised. It's just like airlines and airports.

2 photos of today in Barcelona Sants:
;)
http://i30.tinypic.com/14ctvzp.jpg
:eek:
http://i28.tinypic.com/atniv4.jpg
:D

^^

cleaning it up? :)

^^I was traveling:
http://i26.tinypic.com/msncw9.jpg
:D

The cleaners were in the middle of the train:
;)
http://i25.tinypic.com/2wmjhn5.jpg
:wink2:

Some videos by me from yesterday...the trip was perfect...

Going into the platforms to put the AVE to Camp de Tarragona...you also can see the first train to arrive at Sants at 08:43 AM from Madrid.


7d4hXXdR7oE



Go out from Sants to Camp de Tarragona...and passing the Bellvitge tunnel...


vqYeCvjEwbE


I will post more videos...

At 290kmh...When we returnt to Barcelona we run at 301kmh...



VUAJ8wzwses

^^ And the 120 emu trains operates, today, at Madrid-Logroño, Madrid-Pamplona-Hendaia and some Madrid-Albacete-València services (and I thing to Orpesa and Gandia in summer). In the two first cases runs into HSL Madrid-Barcelona between Madrid and Plasencia de Jalón. In the second case runs on 100% of his route on iberian gauge.

The AVE+ direct train Barcelona-Madrid passing at 300kmh in Camp de Tarragona station...


-On0SsytHHY


Also the "normal" trains with stops arrive easily to 300kmh...Only 4 minuts later to depart from Camp de Tarragona Station...we arrive at top speed...

fc8pMEaEoBg


Regards...:cheers:

Nice videos

^^My videos:
;)
Inside AVE at 300km/h: sRvxLYQ7n8I
:eek:

Our AVE leaving from Camp de Tarragona station towards Madrid: vs4uKmVH1vU
:drool::drool:

That is cool. I'll definatly make a trip to Madrid once it is possible to do the whole line from Rotterdam by High Speed Rail.

^^You will have to wait until 2015 or longer...
:nuts:

Yeah, that's too bad. Well, maybe if they finish the Perpignan - Figueres part. I don't know why they don't speed up the Perpignan - Avignon section, or am i wrong?

Yeah, that's too bad. Well, maybe if they finish the Perpignan - Figueres part. I don't know why they don't speed up the Perpignan - Avignon section, or am i wrong?
From Barcelona to the French border, it will be ready in 2012.
:)
From the French border to Avignon/Montpellier by 2015...
:(

That train has a weird nose. Great improvement on the BCN - Madrid line though. Is Barcelona - Madrid really the busiest air bridge in the world? I would think some US lines might be busiest (Washington - New York or Los Angeles - Las Vegas?), but i might be wrong about that.

That train has a weird nose. Great improvement on the BCN - Madrid line though. Is Barcelona - Madrid really the busiest air bridge in the world? I would think some US lines might be busiest (Washington - New York or Los Angeles - Las Vegas?), but i might be wrong about that.
In terms of amount of traffic it is. In terms of passenger numbers I think that it is third or fourth.

From the French border to Avignon/Montpellier by 2015...
:(

And will be a mixed-traffic HSL, probably at speeds under 300km/h

Too bad. This corridor has good potential with several larger cities, the coastal area's, and ofcourse, the most important of all: Costa Brava/Daurada and Barcelona. Imagine you could travel by train in nearly a day from the Benelux/Germany to Barcelona. (Or Madrid via the Atlantic corridor). It could replace a lot of polluting flights, and maybe some car trips during the summer (though that are usually too different transportation motives)

^^ Renfe only operates the service. Infraestructure and stations are built and run by ADIF.

Renfe pays a fee to ADIF, as other operators will do when the market is liberalised. It's just like airlines and airports.

And when will it be liberalised ?? I know that the posts in Europe are liberalised at least by 2013, but i didn't know railway too.

And when will it be liberalised ?? I know that the posts in Europe are liberalised at least by 2013, but i didn't know railway too.I haven't heard of it either.

I guess Booze meant other passenger companies (besides Renfe) will pay a fee to ADIF (infraestructure owner) when passenger traffic is liberalized in 2010-2012.

In Spain freight traffic is already liberalized, but not yet for passengers.

Yeah in quite every country it's like in Spain. In Greece i don't know how it is, there is no other operator than OSE. In Italy we have now NTV in the passanger traffic, lucky italy.

From Barcelona to the French border, it will be ready in 2012.
:)
From the French border to Avignon/Montpellier by 2015...
:(

Currently the TGV line stops north of Nîmes : the Montpellier-Nîmes segment was originally supposed to be built with the LGV Méd (which itself opened in 2001), but it was postponed ca 1995 for cost reasons... As of today construction should take place around the 2009-2013 period, although it has been delayed because funding wasn't secured - and I think it still hasn't been entirely solved. But the line will stop south of Montpellier, with mixed freight / passenger service, and no new stations will be built for Nîmes and Montpellier at the moment (Map (http://www.rff-cnm.org/fr/enjeux/img/img-carteign-petite.jpg)).
The Montpellier-Perpignan section is still on the drawing board, since the first project was scrapped in the 1990s (also for cost issues). The public debate is supposed to take place this year (expected travel time of 45 mins between Montpellier and Perpignan ; there is about 150 km between the two cities).
The Perpignan-Figueres international line, with the tunnel under the Perthus pass, is scheduled to open in 2009, and its continuation to Barcelona in 2012.

Two more videos by me:

J6nPpuZ5tNI


2vO5MkxQbQ4


Best regards...:cheers:

Yeah, that's too bad. Well, maybe if they finish the Perpignan - Figueres part. I don't know why they don't speed up the Perpignan - Avignon section, or am i wrong?
La France, c'est Paris. La reste, campagne. ;)

In general, centralist Paris has decreed that the Lyon-Turin link is more important than upgrading the links between France and Spain. So, the victom is the Perpinya/Perpignan-Avinhon/Avignon segment. :(

The new HSL Line between Madrid and Málaga:


K-61kR2oc4w

Tren Talgo S-102 Pato .Málaga-Cordoba-Madrid.532km. at 300km.p.h maximun speed´.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5198/dsc00731mp6.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8833/dsc00733ny2.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/825/dsc00734th9.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3284/dsc00735tn8.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3384/dsc00737kd9.jpg

THX Bule!!!

I Love the Duck!!! :drool::drool:

Barcelona's new bullet train takes fight to Iberia

BARCELONA, Feb 20 (Reuters) - Business travellers were impressed with their first taste of a new bullet train between Madrid and Barcelona on Wednesday, highlighting the challenge it poses for Iberia on the airline's heaviest route.

Renfe, the state-run train operator, is hoping to almost double the number of passengers taking the train between Spain's twin business capitals to 6.1 million passengers this year after slashing the journey time by a third to just over 2-1/2 hours.

Passenger Borja Pena-Rich, who owns a building materials firm in Madrid, said the AVE -- which means bird in Spanish but is also an acronym for 'Spanish high speed' -- made better sense than the plane, and from his home in the centre of Madrid to the heart of Barcelona it took about the same time.

"There's not all this getting up and down, getting undressed, that you have with the plane," he said as the train tore across Spain's rugged and empty interior at 300km/hour.

"I have been working for 2-1/2 hours, using the phone and it is much more comfortable. I would take this (train) again."

Pena-Rich said his return ticket, booked the previous day, had cost 180 euros.

Iberia's flexible 'air bridge' service would have cost him just under 400 euros, he said, plus 50 euros he would have spent on taxis from the airport at each end. The same, 'turn up and go ticket' for the train would have cost 326 euros return.

The 7 billion euro train line began operations 16 years after Spain's first AVE began running between Madrid and Seville, Former Socialist Prime Minister Felipe Gonzalez's home town, despite Barcelona hosting the Olympics that year.

But Iberia, which runs 55 percent of the 50-minute flights between Madrid and Barcelona, is not rolling over without a fight.

It points out Renfe only runs 17 trains in each direction every day, some of them slowed by stops in cities like Zaragoza, whereas the airline has promised to continue flying a jet every 15 minutes during peak hours and will use smaller, but not fewer, planes to compensate for a drop in passenger numbers.

It has also just bid for Spanair, its main rival on the route, which would help it minimise any costly price war.

Around 4.8 million people fly between the two cities every year, making it the busiest route in the world. Renfe is hoping to seize 60 percent of the expanded market, according to the Spanish media.

However, Iberia can take heart from one aspect of the inaugural 6 a.m. service: it was only a third full and around half the passengers were journalists.


More : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=427042

l don't really like those "ducky" spanish HS trains!!!

l don't really like those "ducky" spanish HS trains!!!

Why??? They're delicious!!
I know that is a strange design but...we have to change. We couldn't copy France trains another time like in 1992.:lol:

I don't like the ducky trains very much neither, but I love the bullet trains! We have both in Spain.

^^I love both!
:D

I love everything that goes 300+ km/h :lol:

I have a question regarding the new high speed line Perpignan-Figueras.

If this link is about to be completed in 2009 there is still a missing (UIC-gauge) link between Barcelona and Figuras, so the AVE will not be able to run between Barcelona and France until 2012 (Source Wikpedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE)).
Or are they going to install (temporary) gauge changers and start with S120 and S130 sets (Alvia)

Are such gauge changers expensive to build or to maintain ?
Can they be moved to another location when they become obsolete?
Is this changer the same for S120, S130 and the Talgo changers from several years ago?

I have a question regarding the new high speed line Perpignan-Figueras.

If this link is about to be completed in 2009 there is still a missing (UIC-gauge) link between Barcelona and Figuras, so the AVE will not be able to run between Barcelona and France until 2012 (Source Wikpedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE)).
Or are they going to install (temporary) gauge changers and start with S120 and S130 sets (Alvia)

Are such gauge changers expensive to build or to maintain ?

No

Can they be moved to another location when they become
obsolete?

Yes

Is this changer the same for S120, S130 and the Talgo changers from several years ago?

Yes

we still have those old fashion trains here :(

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3173/2385562757_28d40aa657_o.jpg

thanks to.. SSC ([URL="[QUOTE=Bipo;19433470])

^^Great photo!
:eek2:
Where is it?
:?

Valladolid

^^

I'm glad you enjoy them :)

Here is my original post:

Hoy he hecho un par de HDR, a ver si os gustan :):

Un patito...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2099/2385562281_83209469f1_o.jpg


... y un Pato

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3173/2385562757_28d40aa657_o.jpg

Para las HDR necesitas una cámara que permita hacer Bracketing (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracketing), los últimos modelos de reflex traen ya este modo. Sino también pudeis hacer la prueba haciendo la chapuzilla de hacer varias copias de una imagen y sub/sobrexponeerlas via gimp/photoshop pero no es lo mismo.

De todas formas la mayoría de las HDR quedan demasiado artificiales y personalmente las dos que has puesto no me terminan de convencer, no así la 440 que has subido a tranvía que te ha quedado impresionante:


Esta es la foto de Bipo a la que me refiero, e increible
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2188/2385953475_aa14d6a015_o.jpg

^^ oops.. :nuts:

somehow I deleted or took the wrong link to Bipo´s posting.. ::dunno:

thanks Bipo..!! is what I meant.. :wink2:

Here have the new trains of variable width for traffics of half distance. They call S-121 and they can circulate to 250km/h on HSL and to 160km/h on conventional railways. The routes for these trains (are rumbles, there is not at all confirmed) will be León-Madrid, Vitoria-Madrid, Jaén-Sevilla,...

http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/nuevas/DFsti2ib3.jpg
By an user of the Spanish forum "tranvía.org"

Greetings ;)

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3585/pict0012vx5.jpg


http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9186/pict0014gv7.jpg

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8409/pict0016aj4.jpg


http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/5528/pict0017ii3.jpg


http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4041/pict0019pb8.jpg


http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1848/pict0022gg7.jpg


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7159/pict0023zt0.jpg


http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/373/pict0024qi4.jpg


http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6756/pict0025lq7.jpg


http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9725/pict0028my4.jpg


http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/9813/pict0029hd1.jpg


http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/2664/pict0031gz2.jpg

Old cars for the museum

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/6469/pict0030nl1.jpg

They're 300 kph

That' is the maximum speed that the second generation of dual tension ETR500 can reach after a long and slow acceleration on 25Kv.a.c.
The top speed of the Italian High Speed trains , ay leat in the beginging in reveneu services, will arounf o 250Km'h. The new Italian HSLs, (or rather HS/HC Lines) built with the 25Kv. a.c. have a maximum project speed of 300km/h in some section, and 240km/k near Modena and 250 Km/h on sections of the new (yet to be completed) 78.5 km Bologna-Florence ,and on some sections of the Milan-Venice.

On the Direttisima (DD) HSL which is 231 km long + another 20 km on conventional line at both ends (i.e: Florence and Rome) the ER500 travels at a max speed of 220-240km/h on sections of the DD, with only one loco active above 200km/h on the DD.
On Conventional routes the ETR500 travels with the two locos active up to 100km/h.

The "new Italian High Sped record (sic!) was obtained a few days ago, on a section of the new HSL Milan-Bologna, not yet operationa and just completed!!.

Despite the claims of some of my Italian fellows, who irritate and patronize the other members of various forums, the record of 355km/h was obtained :

1) With a slow acceleration from 199 kim/h to 355, which lasted over 10 minutes

2) With one of the two ETR500 used as testing trains, which are of reduced formation of 2 locomotives + 3 carriages and 2 locos + carraiages respectively. It's not yet clear which one of the new test trais were used and on which consist.


The other italians who are writing on this forum, and the Italians who are posting into the Italian section, of this website, maintain that this record was obtained with an ETR500 on normal composition (I.e: 2 locos + 12 carriages), and did not necesstate of modifications, like the French TGVs, which, according to my fellows Italians were moddified to obtain speeds above 500 km/h.

Therefore these Italians maintain that this record is far more significant that the 574.8 Km/h obtained by the French, with a twicked test train.!!!!.

They don't seems to understanda that all world speed records obtaine were done a) by tweaking traina and lines, and b) they are used not only for publicity stunts but also to push the limiti of the technology, and to test new solutions....


The ETR500 made of 2 locos + 8 carriages, reached a speed of about 352 km/h on the newly built section Turin- Milan (85 km of new HSL, opened a few years ago).

On the new Turin_Milan High speed section, at the moment, only 5 pairs of trains are operational on a daily basis.

When the new Turin-Milan - HSL will be completded (125 km of new HSL + 28 km of old line = 153 km) the total journey time from Turin to Milan will be
50-55 minutes.


First of all, from Turin the old 4 track section of about 10-1 km long) will allow a maximum speed of 160 km/h. Then, after about 1o km from Turin, the ETR500 has to slow down to 30km/h to enter into the new High speed section of the Turin- Novara.

Its acceleration is particularly slugghish from 100km/h to 150km/h.

Then, from 150Km/h to reach, for a few seconds, 300Km/h it takes an incredibily long time.

From 100km/h to 300 km/h it takes 50 kilometers.

A Country, like Italy, where medium size towns are at an averge distance of 50-80 kms there is a need of EXTREMELY FAST ACCELERATION.

For High Speed trains which make several intermdiate stops, the Talgo 350 is the best. Alterantively the Italian sould consider the Japanese N700

For long distance High Speed Trains,The Velaro is the best (so far). Probaly it will be superseeded by the AGV 360km/h.

The New train which Trenitalia will buy might not be the AGV 360 . Not an impossibile new, improved version of the ETR500.

The ETR is a failed project. Also it is twice as expensive as the conventional TGV.

It is also to heavy and undepowered. There is no Double Decker version of the ETR500. One ETR500, in a 12 carriage fomation + 2 locos weigh about 660 ton and can carry a bit more than 600 passenger.

A TGV 2N (double decker) weigh about 435 tons and can carry almost 600 passengers.

A TGV 2N can tavel in double formation . The ETR500 cannot.

Even under the 25kv a.c. catenary, where it can develop full power (8,800 kw) and at a reduced formation (2 locos + 8 crriages) it will take about 10 minutes for the ETR500 to reach 300+ km. The French TGV can be regeared by modififying the software - an operation that takes only 3.5 minutes - and then it will be able to draw 8,800 kw X 2 = 17600 kw, for about 50 minutes.

This allow the TGV to reach a speed from 0 km/h the 300+ Km/h mark, in less thant 3 minutes. Not, in ten minutes, like the reduced fromation of the ETR500.

qué fabricación de tecnología ferroviaria avanzada la españa tiene... ¡estoy sumamente estupefacto!

y esta foto es la mejor:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2099/2385562281_83209469f1_o.jpg

¡viva españa!

qué fabricación de tecnología ferroviaria avanzada la españa tiene... ¡estoy sumamente estupefacto!

y esta foto es la mejor:


¡viva españa!

:lol:

¡ Y que viva Croacia !

¡ Y que viva Croacia !

sí, ¿por qué no? :lol:

¡que tengamos fabricaciones como las vuestras!

200 km/h are not really "high speed", even if they could be done for some streches over medium-importance lines (Palencia-Santander).


Dear Coccodrillo,

Unlike the Italians, the Spanish people use the terms "velocidad alta" and "alta velocidad".

For "velocidad alta" they mean speed of 200-220-and up to 250km/h for short dash or stretches of a given line.

For "Alta velocidad" they mean speeds between 250km/h and 350Km/h.
Also the French use the expression "High speed" (Grande vitesse) for speeds up to 300 km/h. "Very High Speed" Tres grande vitesse for 350/360 km/h.


This distinction is not made in Italy. Indeed, it is posible to build a VHS tilting train, capable of 300-360 km/h. Fiat had a project of a super pendolino capable of 320km/h. This super pendolino named "Avrila) also had air brakes.

It was never built. Indeed the ETR401 remained a single prototipe for 15 years, before they built in a rush 15 ET450 derivd from the ETR401. The decision for this was merely political.

The tilting mechanism could be useful on lines which allow a maximum speed of 250km/h, such as the Direttisima Florence-Rome.

The problem with the Direttissima is that on this line there are too many trains running at very different speeds (140km/h-160km/h 200km/h and some trains 220/km/h).

Furthermore, contrary to the other nations which have bought or built tilting trains of Italian conceptions, the Italians have used the tilting mechanisms of the pendolinos only at the beginning (early '90) and they have never fully exploited its full capacities.

The ETR500 was flawed even in the planning sage.

The FS's engineers did not wanted it. It would have been cheaper to make better use of the pendolonosi and also to improve the pendolinos, like the Fiat original projects "Avril" for a super pendolino capable of 320Km'/h, even on the Direttissima.

You ought to remember that, on the Direttissima, with one pantograph connected to the catenary you cannot draw more that 6000kw.

The historical Forence-Rome line is too slow. There is a need for another couple of tracks between Forence and Rome of a new Very High Speed Line allowing commercial speeds up to 360 km/h.

The French prototype TGV pendulaire (with an active tilting mechanism of only 6 degree) was capable of 320 km/h .

The original Fiat tilting project, as well as it derivatives, have a maximum tilting capability of 10 degrees.

For a Country which has a great number of small to medium size towns, every 50-100km/h the ideal Very High speed stopping train is the Talgo 350. The Talgo 350 accelerates from 150 to 250 in about a minute.

It is ideal for Stopping services of the HSL Milan-Venice yet to be built. It is also ideal for HS stopping trains on the new HSL Milan-Bologna.

I believe that it is about time you show some degree of objectivity in international forums. Take it from an Italian who has been living in the UK for 27 years.

On the soon to be open Milan-Bologna the ETR500Y testing train (2 locomotives + 3 carriages) reached only 354 km/h. It took the train (at a reduced formation) 10 minutes and 44 seconds to accelerate from 199km/h to 354km/h.
On a new Italian HSL, a conventional ETR500 (2 locos + 8 carraiages) reaches the 300km/h mark after 50kms of very slow acceleration.
A better, cheaper choice would have been a TGV Duplex.

It is ideal for Stopping services of the HSL Milan-Venice yet to be built. It is also ideal for HS stopping trains on the new HSL Milan-Bologna.

km 0 Milano Centrale
km 36 (Lodi)
km 72 Piacenza
km 107 (Fidenza)
km 129 Parma
km 157 Reggio Emilia
km 182 Modena
km 219 Bologna

=========================

km 0 Milano Centrale
km 34 (Treviglio)
km 66 (Rovato)
km 83 Brescia
km 11 Desenzano
km 125 Peschiera
km 148 Verona
km 172 (San Bonifacio)
km 200 Vicenza
km 230 Padova
km 258 Venezia Mestre
km 267 Venezia Santa Lucia

Without brackets are the cities where InterCity trains stop, with brackets onther smalelr cities where only some IC stops.

http://www.ferroviedellostato.it/ferrovie/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=edc05e88951ac010VgnVCM1000002f2af90aRCRD

^^

This train is made for you! :okay:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3173/2385562757_28d40aa657_o.jpg


I took that photo last month on Valladolid, Spain. Do you like it? :)

Cool pictures and hdr effects Bipo!

The train looks quite dirty though, looks like it went through a war :)

^^

In fact, it crossed through Moria, I mean... Guadarrama :lol:

That train looks like a duck but it is better than the "fast rail" we have in Aust or lack of it.

I made this video yesterday at L'Arboç, between Barcelona and Camp de Tarragona, the AVE S103 Flying at full Speed, 300kmh!


xF1VNIUC5pg


I hope you like it!

Yeah I do!! Nice one ;)

I made this video yesterday at L'Arboç, between Barcelona and Camp de Tarragona, the AVE S103 Flying at full Speed, 300kmh!


xF1VNIUC5pg


I hope you like it!
Great, but it is running at 301km/h.
:D

Last Friday, inside the cabin after running at 302kph:
;)
http://i29.tinypic.com/33fdblu.jpg
:)
http://i26.tinypic.com/2z8w7fa.jpg
:wink2:

When the speed will be 350km/h on Madrid-Barcelona?

^^By October-November, they say...
:dunno:

New H.S.L.Málaga-Cordoba-Madrid. Cartama-Tunnel at 15km. dut of Málaga
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7756/dsc00866eq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/2638/dsc00874fs5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
S-103 Velaro Málaga-Madrid
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3900/dsc00875fn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
[IMG]http://img377.imag[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3900/dsc00875fn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5291/dsc00877cz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5291/dsc00877cz5.f6126defc5.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=515&i=dsc00877cz5.jpg)

http://i29.tinypic.com/33fdblu.jpg

Was it really necessary to blank the back of the man's head, lol.

^^Yes, he asked it.
:yes:

km 0 Milano Centrale
km 36 (Lodi)
km 72 Piacenza
km 107 (Fidenza)
km 129 Parma
km 157 Reggio Emilia
km 182 Modena
km 219 Bologna

=========================

km 0 Milano Centrale
km 34 (Treviglio)
km 66 (Rovato)
km 83 Brescia
km 11 Desenzano
km 125 Peschiera
km 148 Verona
km 172 (San Bonifacio)
km 200 Vicenza
km 230 Padova
km 258 Venezia Mestre
km 267 Venezia Santa Lucia

Without brackets are the cities where InterCity trains stop, with brackets onther smalelr cities where only some IC stops.

http://www.ferroviedellostato.it/ferrovie/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=edc05e88951ac010VgnVCM1000002f2af90aRCRD

^^ Please post Italian HSR related stuff in a "italian HSR" topic ... it would be much more usefull that way. :cheers:

:omg: that tunnel in the way to Malaga is wonderfull ... I just "need" to go there as soon as possible. :cheers: