What's the deal with a new high-speed line cutting really close to La Sagrada Familia? I know that when I was there last month the church had a big display upon how it might undermine the foundations of this truly amazing building.

Anyone have more info?

Isn't that the 2nd tunel under Barcelona to carry the HSL to france ?

^^It will be the 3r railway tunnel under Barcelona, but the 1st for high speed railway.
:yes:
A strong renforcement of Sagrada Familia foundations is being made, do not worry!
;)
Moreover:
Actually, now there are 2 metro tunnels under Sagrada Familia: line 2 and line 5.
:wink2:

Thanks for the info. Yeah I figured the metro would probably go underneath as there's a station basically right next to the church.

more info about the AVE tunnel under the Sagrada Familia can be found here (http://www.sossagradafamilia.org) (the sections in English, Spanish and Catalan are the most informing)
the tunnels don't go really under the temple, but right next to its foundations.
the metro tunnels are exactly under the roads in front of the temple.
The new tunnel is being constructed at a much deeper level, so it should be OK.

It shouldn't really be a problem to construct the new tunnel, if you see how the Antwerp rail tunnel was dug under the Central Station building.

more info about the AVE tunnel under the Sagrada Familia can be found here (http://www.sossagradafamilia.org) (the sections in English, Spanish and Catalan are the most informing)
the tunnels don't go really under the temple, but right next to its foundations.
the metro tunnels are exactly under the roads in front of the temple.
The new tunnel is being constructed at a much deeper level, so it should be OK.

It shouldn't really be a problem to construct the new tunnel, if you see how the Antwerp rail tunnel was dug under the Central Station building.

If you know the recent history about the new tunnels that were built in Barcelona you know why many fear for this one.

What's the deal with the extremely generous Renfe timetables? A few weeks ago I bought a return ticket to Zaragoza with the AVE. On the Barcelona-Zaragoza trip the train made long stops in both Tarragona (5min) and Lleida (10 min). It also came to a complete stop in the middle of nowhere in between Lleida and Zaragoza for about 5min. Despite this the train arrived on time, actually a minute ahead of the timetable?

On the return trip (nonstop) the train came to a complete stop midway, after about six-seven minutes it began to move but still managed to enter the Barcelona trainstation 4 minutes ahead of the timetable.

^^It is because they give you all the money back if the train is delayed more than 15 minutes, so they "inflate" the journey time.
:yes:

^^It is because they give you all the money back if the train is delayed more than 15 minutes, so they "inflate" the journey time.
:yes:

It's stupid. I think the better would be to have a bigger fares, faster travel times and just pay for delayed.

I think thath Renfe need serious competition on your tracks.

I guess they're inflating the timetables until they set the top speed at 350 km/h. We just have to take a look to the timetables in the Madrid-Seville line and then ask somebody who has used this line, to see if the trains stop there as well.

Anybody?

It's stupid. I think the better would be to have a bigger fares, faster travel times and just pay for delayed.

I think thath Renfe need serious competition on your tracks.
It is what they do:
-Big prices: 106-125€ for one way!:ohno:
-Faster train: 2h.38min.
-All money refunded if the train arrives to destination 15 minutes delayed or more.
:dunno:
The real travel time for direct services could be 2h.15min., but they set 2h. 38min.
:(
I agree with you: RENFE needs serious concurrence!
:yes:
I guess they're inflating the timetables until they set the top speed at 350 km/h. We just have to take a look to the timetables in the Madrid-Seville line and then ask somebody who has used this line, to see if the trains stop there as well.

Anybody?
^^From Madrid to Seville is 476km. From Barcelona to Madrid is 620km. Both high speed trains take more or less the same time: 2h.30min. approx.
:yes:
At the beginning, in 1992, trains from Madrid to Seville took 3h. Now the faster train takes 2h.15min. approx. But those trains are slower and the distance is shorter. And, in Seville line, RENFE refunds all money back if the train arrives to destination 5 minutes late or more!
:okay:
I have used both lines several times.
:wink2:

^^

You forget that his line is new (the HST trains arrived at Barcelona since February), and the trains run over a new system (ERTMS / ETCS II)

At the beginning, in 1992, trains from Madrid to Seville took 3h. Now the faster train takes 2h.15min. approx. But those trains are slower and the distance is shorter. And, in Seville line, RENFE refunds all money back if the train arrives to destination 5 minutes late or more!
:okay:
I have used both lines several times.
:wink2:

Thanks a lot for the info, but they do (or did) stop in the Madrid-Seville line, or they (didn't) don't?
Because i see it like it's more a gap for timetable adjustement or more likely a safety mattress to avoid unforeseen events.

^^Some trains stopped/stops but some other trains were/are direct without stops between Madrid and Seville.
:wink2:

Thanks a lot for the info, but they do (or did) stop in the Madrid-Seville line, or they (didn't) don't?
Because i see it like it's more a gap for timetable adjustement or more likely a safety mattress to avoid unforeseen events.

Its known as recovery time or slack. Very common timetable tactic.

Its known as recovery time or slack. Very common timetable tactic.

Yea but normaly the timetable on any service has a recovery time of 5-10 min. On the Barcelona-Madrid line it has to be in the 30 min region for the 3h 23min service.

Only on the Barcelona-Zaragoza section there were some 15-20 min of recovery time (5-6 min of extra time space between every stop), that's insane for a 300km trip.

^^Yes, it is insane so much recovery time. RENFE is afraid of refunding money for delays, I presume...
:ohno:

I once went from Cordoba to Seville. The train arrived outside Seville station 10 minutes early (on like a 45 minute trip). It then sat there for 40 minutes due to a signal fault.

I got my money back. I had to come back the next day and fill in a long form. It tested my Spanish to its limits :) .

^^Some trains stopped/stops but some other trains were/are direct without stops between Madrid and Seville.
:wink2:

I know. I'm spanish.

Last Friday the AVE leaving from Barcelona at 16.30 arrived to Madrid 5 minutes before the time: at 19.03. I was on that train.
:yes:

Fiat had a project of a super pendolino capable of 320km/h. This super pendolino named "Avrila) also had air brakes.
It was never built.


The story as I know it is a bit different:
The AVRIL train was not the projected (and never built) "Superpendolino":

Avril was projected as an 8-carriages EMU based on independent wheels trucks of very short length (just 1,800 mm.) and capable of speed of 320 kph.
The Superpendolino was meant to be a train joining a revenue speed of 300 kph on HSL lines and tilting mechanism on classical network.

The first never saw the ligth because the tests of the indipendent wheel bogie were not as good as expected (first of all.....)
The latter was abandoned when FIAT got rid of its railroad subdivision (FIAT Ferroviaria) and the French Alstom bought it.
Of course Alstom had to choose between developing its TGV and the Superpendolino and......guess what??

AVRIL means Alta Velocidad Rueda Independiente Ligero (Light Independent Wheel High Speed) and it's a project of the spanish corp. Talgo.

It is a kind of "Pato" (Renfe S-102 AVE) with more seats in the space where are now all the electric stuff. They try to put all that equipment under the floor (as a AGV or Velaro), buy only in the place of the extreme cars, while the rest of cars are normal Talgo AV cars, as in a "Pato".

They expect to release this model between 1011-2013

Here you can see the two trains. First the "Pato" Renfe S-102 AVE, and below the AVRIL project. Common bogie could not be implemented on final design (due to weight-per-axe limit, it could be exceed).

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/4223/patovsavrilajustadoki9.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4122/patovsavrildetallele0.jpg

Traction cars are only the extreme ones, like in the "Pato".

The Pato could achieve more than 360 km/h, and the new AVRIL would be able to run at a constant speed over 400 km/h :omg:

So, there are two different projects sharing the same name.
The only "AVRIL" I knew of (short of: Alta Velocità, Ruote Indipendenti, Leggero) was the project I menctioned before, drawn by the italian engineer Romano Panagin.
I knew nothing about the spanish "Pato Avril". Thanks for the information.
BTW: where can I get some more details of the Avril train you are talking about?
Thanks in advance.

^^

Sorry, but you can't. A couple of Talgo engineers told me about it, but I don't know anything else :dunno:

Here you can see the two trains. First the "Pato" Renfe S-102 AVE, and below the AVRIL project. Common bogie could not be implemented on final design (due to weight-per-axe limit, it could be exceed).

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/4223/patovsavrilajustadoki9.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4122/patovsavrildetallele0.jpg

Traction cars are only the extreme ones, like in the "Pato".

The Pato could achieve more than 360 km/h, and the new AVRIL would be able to run at a constant speed over 400 km/h :omg:
400km/h as constant speed?
:eek2:

^^

Remember that SNCF are testing their TGVs at very high speeds (last May they reach more than 580 km/h!!) because they are planning to operate at constant speeds of 150 m/s (540 km/h) before 2020s decade is out :omg:

Their objective is making TGVs able to travel from Lille to Marseille in less than 2:30 hours (Applied to Spain: Málaga-Barcelona in 2:30 or less, Madrid-Barcelona just a little over an hour!) :shocked:

because they are planning to operate at constant speeds of 150 m/s (540 km/h) before 2020s decade is out :omg:

no

^^

Yes, an ADIF engineer told me about it last month :yes:

Yes, an ADIF engineer told me about it last month :yes:

Bipo, I think you're mistaken - or, at least, overinterpreting what you've been told. I live in Paris and I am a keen reader of French rail magazines, and what you say is news to me. The name "Projet V150" was given to the concrete undertaking that secured SNCF its new speed record on LGV-Est last year. It is true that the speed record, and by extension V150, has been billed on various websites as part of an effort to obtain material speed increases on the main lines over the coming 20 years.

But, as far as I know, that's about all there is to it. SNCF has said publicly - in unrelated contexts - that they expect a cruising speed of 360 km/h within the foreseeable future. And this they must say: people here in France are quite fetichistic about Three Hours as the maximal travel time between two cities in regular point-to-point service. And, if 3 hours are to be obtained on the nascent Paris-Toulouse and Paris-Nice lines, then 360 km/h is the order of the day. As for the rest of their big words... I suspect that they - as well as to some extent the speed record - had as their main purpose strengthning Alstom's marketing position in the emerging HST markets outside Europe. ;)

^^

Well, that's quite logical, but you also know that increasing speed must not be stopped at 360 km/h. Maybe that will be the top speed for next 10 or 15 years, but is neccesary to keep on testing over those speeds with the aim of, in a not-so-far future, HST will be able to reach higher speed in regular services.

High Speed Trains must replace planes in all less-than-1.000 km routes. Burning kerosene for relatively short distances, as lots of countries are doing at the moment, is not sustainable. And the only way to get that objective is making trains faster and faster.

^^ the power consumption is not proportional to the speed.

An increase of 10% of speed (300 to 330) is not necessarly a 10% increase in power consumption.

And it is not easy to mantain such speeds.

We can't know what will be possible in 2050, but as for now, even "only" 360 km/h are difficult to mantain.

^^

Well, that's quite logical, but you also know that increasing speed must not be stopped at 360 km/h. Maybe that will be the top speed for next 10 or 15 years, but is neccesary to keep on testing over those speeds with the aim of, in a not-so-far future, HST will be able to reach higher speed in regular services.

High Speed Trains must replace planes in all less-than-1.000 km routes. Burning kerosene for relatively short distances, as lots of countries are doing at the moment, is not sustainable. And the only way to get that objective is making trains faster and faster.

The thing is, that at 360 km/h, trains *can* replace planes on those routes. We just need the rails for them. If you're going to look at longer routes higher speeds are going to help of course but there, infrastructure is going to be even more of an issue.

^^ the power consumption is not proportional to the speed.

An increase of 10% of speed (300 to 330) is not necessarly a 10% increase in power consumption.

And it is not easy to mantain such speeds.

We can't know what will be possible in 2050, but as for now, even "only" 360 km/h are difficult to mantain.

Increasing top speed from 300 to 350 km/h (+16%) increases power consumption only +8%, but that speed increase would make that HSTs "steal" more an more passenger from airplanes, that as you know burn lots of kerosene. As a result, overall power consumption is not increased, but it is reduced.


The thing is, that at 360 km/h, trains *can* replace planes on those routes. We just need the rails for them. If you're going to look at longer routes higher speeds are going to help of course but there, infrastructure is going to be even more of an issue.

Even for shorter routes, faster trains would make more people let the car at home and take the train. In fact, between Tokyo and Osaka, at the moment, Nozomi HST takes no more than 2:30, but they are going to build a new MagLev HST that would make HSTs to be able to keep on running at constant speeds over 500 km/h, and to do the same route in just one hour or a bit more.

In HST there is a concept very very clear: The faster it goes, the more people it "catch" from other kinds of transport. And HSTs are the most envioremental-friendly transportation way.

Even for shorter routes, faster trains would make more people let the car at home and take the train. In fact, between Tokyo and Osaka, at the moment, Nozomi HST takes no more than 2:30, but they are going to build a new MagLev HST that would make HSTs to be able to keep on running at constant speeds over 500 km/h, and to do the same route in just one hour or a bit more.

In HST there is a concept very very clear: The faster it goes, the more people it "catch" from other kinds of transport. And HSTs are the most envioremental-friendly transportation way.

Sorry, I fail to see how that would affect a passenger's decision in any noticeable way.
If the price is competitive, and door-to-door travel would cost me only three hours instead of a plane's 3.5 hours, I'll take the TGV, easy. Now, they speed the thing up, and it's only going to take me 2.5 hours instead of the previous three. Result: I'll still take the TGV, just like I did before (unless, of course, that extra speed means they're not price-competitive anymore).

^^

Travelling time makes the difference.

I'll show you a perfect example: In the Madid - Barcelona corridor, "air bridge" take almost 90% of passengers. Even with te fast train "Alvia" (just 75€) that only took 3:55, people continued going on plane. Well, last February the AVE services (120€, a 60% more expensive than Alvia) began at last, taking between 3:20 (services with stops) and only 2:38 (direct services) for the same travel. Result: nowadays more than 50% of passengers take the AVE to go between those cities, and it began working only six months ago! I'm sure that before one year it will take 80% or more percent of the passengers.

Time is a precious and people know it.

Rail now taking 30% of Barcelona - Madrid route

The latest data from AENA indicates that the new high-speed rail service between Madrid and Barcelona has reduced air travel demand between the two cities by around 30%. In 2007 the route carried almost five million passengers. This year the figure is likely to fall to around 3.5 million.

http://www.anna.aero/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/madrid-to-barcelona-passengers.png

http://www.anna.aero/2008/08/15/spanish-airports-hit-turbulence-in-second-quarter-of-2008/

Sorry, I fail to see how that would affect a passenger's decision in any noticeable way.
If the price is competitive, and door-to-door travel would cost me only three hours instead of a plane's 3.5 hours, I'll take the TGV, easy. Now, they speed the thing up, and it's only going to take me 2.5 hours instead of the previous three. Result: I'll still take the TGV, just like I did before (unless, of course, that extra speed means they're not price-competitive anymore).

^^ Your logic has a hole in it ...

It's not about you going for the 2,5 hours it took you to go previously ... but in fact is about you going (either if you went previously in 3h or 3,5h or even not going at all) for the 1h it takes to get you on the other side nowadays.

:cheers:

Sorry, I fail to see how that would affect a passenger's decision in any noticeable way.
If the price is competitive, and door-to-door travel would cost me only three hours instead of a plane's 3.5 hours, I'll take the TGV, easy. Now, they speed the thing up, and it's only going to take me 2.5 hours instead of the previous three. Result: I'll still take the TGV, just like I did before (unless, of course, that extra speed means they're not price-competitive anymore).
^^The problem is the price:
AVE from BCN to MAD or vice versa: from 50 to 125 euros for one way.
Plane from BCN to Madrid or vice versa: from 35 to 100 euros for one way.
:dunno:
I choose plane, for the moment...
:yes:

^^The problem is the price:
AVE from BCN to MAD or vice versa: from 50 to 125 euros for one way.
Plane from BCN to Madrid or vice versa: from 35 to 100 euros for one way.
:dunno:
I choose plane, for the moment...
:yes:

If the problem is the price, then I doubt that those prices will go down by speeding the thing up more. Every extra km of speed is more expensive than the previous one.
At those prices, I'd *definitely* take the AVE over the plane btw. You're just mentioning the cost of the plane ticket here, and for some reason I doubt that getting to/from the Madrid/Barcelona airports has suddenly become free.

^^ When I was in Barcelona, the plane to Madrid was delayed 6 hours. I bet at least some of those people who had to wait will take the train next time.

^^ When I was in Barcelona, the plane to Madrid was delayed 6 hours. I bet at least some of those people who had to wait will take the train next time.

Maybe yes, but I suppose that flight was not part of the "puente aéreo", in which you can buy a ticket for one day and travel when you want to. Normally the people who travels form Barcelona to Madrid or vice-versa by plane take the "puente aéreo", with flights every hour. So, these people aren't really affected by delays.

However, to take the "puente aéreo" you have to arrive to the airport 1 hour before the plane leaves (in opposition with the two hours of a normal flight), and once you've landed, take another taxi/metro to the center of the city, while the high speed train leaves you in the center of the city and arriving to the station 10 minutes before is enough.

If the problem is the price, then I doubt that those prices will go down by speeding the thing up more. Every extra km of speed is more expensive than the previous one.
At those prices, I'd *definitely* take the AVE over the plane btw. You're just mentioning the cost of the plane ticket here, and for some reason I doubt that getting to/from the Madrid/Barcelona airports has suddenly become free.
From Barcelona centre to BCN El Prat airport by public transport the price is 1,30 or 2,60 euros and it takes by 25 min.
From Madrid centre to MAD Barajas airport by public transport the price is 2 euros and it takes by 45 min.
:okay:
^^ When I was in Barcelona, the plane to Madrid was delayed 6 hours. I bet at least some of those people who had to wait will take the train next time.
^^That is NOT normal... Did you fly with VUELiNG?
:?
You must know that, if the plane is delayed 5 or more hours you can get your money back plus indemnization.
:yes:

From Barcelona centre to BCN El Prat airport by public transport the price is 1,30 or 2,60 euros and it takes by 25 min.
From Madrid centre to MAD Barajas airport by public transport the price is 2 euros and it takes by 45 min.

In that case, you've spent one hour 10 minutes at minimum in order to save about 10 euro's. Most likely, there were waiting times involved, planes can be delayed, plane companies require you to check in a certain amount of time before lift off, you have to wait for your luggage.. let's be optimistic and assume that all that will take an extra 50 minutes. That's two hours total to save a tenner.

Sorry, and to each his own of course, but I don't work for 5 euro an hour.

^^

But Bitxo works at the BCN airport, so... :D

^^Yes, plane is better in my case.
:D

[QUOTE=Bitxofo;24756106]From Barcelona centre to BCN El Prat airport by public transport the price is 1,30 or 2,60 euros and it takes by 25 min.
From Madrid centre to MAD Barajas airport by public transport the price is 2 euros and it takes by 45 min.
QUOTE]

45 min from Madrid centre to MAD Barajas?!?!well, if you want to go walking...by metro, from Nuevos Ministerios to Aeropuerto T4 is 20 min.

45 min from Madrid centre to MAD Barajas?!?!well, if you want to go walking...by metro, from Nuevos Ministerios to Aeropuerto T4 is 20 min.
Nuevos Ministerios is not Madrid centre, but the business district.
;)
From Barajas to Sol (city centre) it takes around 45-50 min. by metro. I do it many times.
:yes:

Nuevos Ministerios is not Madrid centre, but the business district.
;)
From Barajas to Sol (city centre) it takes around 45-50 min. by metro. I do it many times.
:yes:


¿?

Nuevos Ministerios is the center. Sol is in the historic center.

Nuevos Ministerios is not Madrid centre, but the business district.Come on...

¿?

Nuevos Ministerios is the center. Sol is in the historic center.

Come on...
I was talking about historical centre.
;)
And kilometre zero of Spain is in Puerta del Sol.
:D

I was talking about historical centre.
;)
And kilometre zero of Spain is in Puerta del Sol.
:D

The km. 0 of the Madrid radial motorways. :)

The km. 0 of the Madrid radial motorways. :)
Not exactly: it is the kilometre zero of Spanish National roads: NI, NII, NIII, NIV, NV and NVI.
:wink2:

Not exactly: it is the kilometre zero of Spanish National roads: NI, NII, NIII, NIV, NV and NVI.
:wink2:

I know. But is not the kilometre zero of all "spanish national roads", is the kilometre zero of only NI, NII, NIII, NIV, NV and NVI and their respective A-1, A-2, A-3, A-4, A-5 and A-6.

:)

OK now to get the thread back on track I post a poster by Fomento about the viaduct south of Jerez that was inaugurated last summer. The poster basically give some information about the cost of the section put into service and the pic on the right side show the status of the Seville-Cadiz HSR project circa july 2007. The viaduct on the poster is the longest in Spain at 3222 meters. The section put into service was the one between Jerez de la Frontera and El Puerto de Santa Maria, it is possible to see it during its construction in Google Earth. At the same time another section between El Puerto de Santa Maria and Puerto Real was also put into service.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3093/2833953016_eda9de6b96_b.jpg

^^That is NOT normal... Did you fly with VUELiNG?
:?
You must know that, if the plane is delayed 5 or more hours you can get your money back plus indemnization.
:yes:
I wasn't flying to Madrid, fortunately :), but I noticed it on the "departing flights" screen.

Btw, are there any plans to connect Barajas Airport with the HSL-network in the near future?
During my last year's trip in Madrid I noticed that there are some platforms at the T4-Train station which weren't used yet.

Btw, are there any plans to connect Barajas Airport with the HSL-network in the near future?
During my last year's trip in Madrid I noticed that there are some platforms at the T4-Train station which weren't used yet.The railway between T4 and Chamartin Station (used for Northern HSL) is already under construction and should be on service in 2010. Conmuter trains will take around 10 minutes on that route. Atocha Station (the main HSL-station) and Chamartin Station are currently connected by conmuter trains in 12 minutes.

There were some talks about building a HSL-station in Barajas, but it was rejected if my memory doesn't fail.

So, there are two different projects sharing the same name.
The only "AVRIL" I knew of (short of: Alta Velocità, Ruote Indipendenti, Leggero) was the project I menctioned before, drawn by the italian engineer Romano Panagin.
I knew nothing about the spanish "Pato Avril". Thanks for the information.
BTW: where can I get some more details of the Avril train you are talking about?
Thanks in advance.

Here you are ;):

Así es AVRIL, el nuevo tren de Talgo (http://www.altavelocidad.org/tecnica/515-lo-nuevo-de-talgo-se-llama-avril) http://www.altavelocidad.org/templates/js_relevant/images/printButton.png (http://www.altavelocidad.org/tecnica/515-lo-nuevo-de-talgo-se-llama-avril#) Las noticias (http://www.altavelocidad.org/las-noticias-mainmenu-2) - Técnica (http://www.altavelocidad.org/tecnica) Lunes, 22 de Septiembre de 2008 01:29 http://www.altavelocidad.org/images/stories/noticias/Investigacion_y_tecnica/avril.jpg


"Alta Velocidad Rueda Independiente Ligero - AVRIL". Así de completo y dislocado es el acrónimo de la familia de trenes que la fabricante española Talgo tiene sobre el tablero de diseño. El tren -o más bien su concepto- fue presentado en primicia el jueves 18 de septiembre en una Mesa Redonda en la que no faltó nadie, y con la que los responsables del Máster de Sistemas Ferroviarios que ahora comienza su 7º curso (http://www.altavelocidad.org/tecnica/507-el-master-de-sistemas-ferroviarios-a-mas-de-300-kmh) querían dar una visión de conjunto del futuro de estos vehículos. A juzgar por lo expuesto, el de Talgo entra plenamente en esta categoría.


Para empezar con el rosario de sorpresas, la plataforma (lean familia) de trenes AVRIL está diseñada para un máximo de 380 km/h, y sigue el principio básico de los tiempos: en un mercado liberalizado, los operadores ferroviarios quieren trenes más rentables. Y eso significa más capacidad, y menos costes de operación.

Entre las escasas características técnicas de AVRIL que Talgo desveló ante el público, y ante una nutrida representación de su competencia (Siemens, East Japan Rail, Korail, CAF, Siemens, Bombardier), destaca una por encima de todas: la española insiste en el piso bajo, a la misma altura del andén interoperable, que permite que los viajeros suban y bajen con rapidez, ganando así tiempo en las paradas.

Para ello, claro, Talgo mantiene su clásico sistema de rodales (rodaduras con ruedas independientes entre sí) y tren articulado por ellos (sirven de apoyo a un coche y al contiguo). E insiste en sus bondades: es más ligero y más respetuoso con la vía.

Ligero pero matón


También llama la atención poderosamente la idea con la que trabajan en la fabricante para distribuir la tracción a lo largo del tren. Ni tracción concentrada (en las dos cabezas tractoras) ni tracción distribuida (a lo largo del tren), sino todo lo contrario.

El tren será así una ensalada de bojes con ejes motorizados (el 42% de los ejes) y rodales que, según Talgo, permitirá un mejor aprovechamiento de la energía y del espacio: hasta un 87% de la longitud del tren será utilizable para viajeros y servicios, hasta alcanzar las 470 plazas en su configuración estánda, y las 540 en una configuración denominada "de alta capacidad" (su diseño promete ser sorprendente).

Todo un salto si se tiene en cuenta que la Serie 102 (http://ferrocarriles.wikia.com/wiki/Renfe_Serie_102), actualmente en servicio con la librea de Renfe en servicios comerciales AVE, cuenta apenas con 318. No acaba ahí la cosa, porque Talgo promete que en su AVRIL caben hasta un 18% más de cabezas para cada configuración de las dos citadas, si hablamos de la versión de gálibo ancho.

Y es que la familia AVRIL no es un solo tren, sino una especie de combinación de anchos de vía y tensiones de electrificación difícil de enumerar (sumen y multipliquen por factorial). En su presentación, Talgo aseguró así que trabajan para diseñar trenes que puedan exportarse a países en los que el ancho sea de 1.435, 1.520 y 1.668 mm... o de varios de ellos a la vez, porque el ancho variable también está sobre la mesa.

Como no sólo con raíles se mueve el tren, la empresa señala además que los 8.800 kW de potencia total de los trenes de esta familia (ya parece tribu) podrán obtenerse de hilos de contacto a cuatro tensiones distintas: 25 kV/ 50Hz; 15 kV/16.7 Hz; 3kV CC; 1.5 kV CC. No se despeinen, que no hemos acabado. El tren también podría fabricarse en versión diésel... o híbrida, variando como es obvio la potencia total que es capaz de desarrollar, y con ella la velocidad máxima.

Consumo reducido


Con todas esas características, la empresa espera reducir el peso hasta las 287 toneladas (322 tiene la Serie 102), para reducir al mínimo el consumo energético desde un nivel que ya es pequeño, gracias a la estructura de rodales y al bajo perfil aerodinámico de los coches Talgo. Un 7% menos por kilómetro que su antecesor (que roza los 16 kWh/km) o lo que es lo mismo, un 31% menos por plaza-kilómetro.

Se trata en resumen, y siempre según la fabricante, de un diseño mucho más eficiente que su antecesor, que pretende aprovechar su concepto industrial clásico en un mercado de crecimiento explosivo y lleno de oportunidades, obteniendo lo mejor de la tracción distribuida y la concentrada, y maximizando las variables que más le gustan al operador. Que consuma menos, que quepan más.


http://www.altavelocidad.org/tecnica/515-lo-nuevo-de-talgo-se-llama-avril

Interesting.....:wink2:
:eat:

Thank you very much!!!

But forget redesign the front of the train

wonderful system...

We bought CAf's from Spain to operate between Ankara-Istanbul. Do you think they are good trains?

^^Yes, they are very good trains.
:yes:

how many kind of HST sets operate in Spain, and what are their differences?

how many kind of HST sets operate in Spain, and what are their differences?
Class 100 (Alstom)
Top speed: 300 km/h
Used in Madrid-Seville HSL since 1992.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3168/2518793103_f1c43a592d.jpg?v=0

Class 101 (Alstom)
Top Speed: 220 km/h
Used in Euromed services (Barcelona-Valencia-Alicante) in iberian gauge.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2121/2376180167_53c7874878.jpg?v=0

Class 102 (Talgo and Bombardier)
Top Speed: 330 km/h
Used in Madrid-Malaga and Madrid-Valladolid HSL.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3282/2501693370_050a43f94e.jpg?v=0

Class 103 (Siemens)
Top Speed: 350 km/h
Used in the Northwest (Barcelona) and South (Seville/Malaga) HS-corridors.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3106/2448783229_617374f7d1.jpg?v=0

Class 104 (Alstom and CAF)
Top Speed: 250 km/h
Used in Avant services, short distances like Madrid-Toledo or Seville-Malaga
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/2895474478_9514583a69.jpg?v=0

Class 120 (Alstom and CAF)
Top Speed: 250 km/h
Used in Alvia services, since they can be used both in international and iberian gauge.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3122/2560874118_b019525d53.jpg?v=1216683058

Class 121
Top Speed: 250 km/h
Extremely similar to Class 121, but they are used for Avant Services.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3064/2862801315_429017fd4d.jpg?v=0

Class 130 (Talgo and Bombardier)
Top Speed: 250 km/h
Used in Alvia services, since they can be used both in international and iberian gauge.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2181/2108494931_357a300853.jpg?v=0

http://www.altavelocidad.org/images/stories/noticias/Investigacion_y_tecnica/avril.jpg

Wow those trains are truely great, especially their interoperability. Can drive on three gauges and on so many different voltages. I'd love to see those things here ;)

thank you very very much for this informatic post :okay:

yes we bought this Class 120 CAF from you. Why do you call "Alstrom and CAF" is it joint production?

Class 120 (Alstom and CAF)
Top Speed: 250 km/h
Used in Alvia services, since they can be used both in international and iberian gauge.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3122/2560874118_b019525d53.jpg?v=1216683058

The Ave S:102 "Pato" in now running between Barcelona-Malaga & Barcelona-Sevilla!

Im happy to see again this wonderful train in the northwest corridor!!:banana::banana:...I love the Pato!

^^I love the "duck", too!
:happy:

http://www.altavelocidad.org/images/stories/noticias/Investigacion_y_tecnica/avril.jpg

Wow those trains are truely great, especially their interoperability. Can drive on three gauges and on so many different voltages. I'd love to see those things here ;)

what is its speed?

^^

380 km/h :colgate:

^^It will be, in future.
;)

for international or national line?

^^ ;)

http://www.altavelocidad.org/images/stories/noticias/Investigacion_y_tecnica/avril.jpg

Wow those trains are truely great, especially their interoperability. Can drive on three gauges and on so many different voltages. I'd love to see those things here ;)


@ Bipo: espero que coja todo lo que dé :lol:

^^

Of course, my friend :D

I am curious about non-High speed trains of Spain?

^^

Visit www.tranvia.org

In the "galeria" you can see lots of photos ;)

thank you :okay:

^^

380 km/h :colgate:

If it actually actually goes that fast commercially, that would be sweet.
You Spanish can keep the patos, more Velaros for everyone else ;).

Seriously, though, the massive success of the Madrid-Barcelona line has been nice for those of us in California because it is a very convincing argument for HSR (as Spain and CA have similar demographics/ geography) thus giving us yet example to fight the opposition.

If it actually actually goes that fast commercially, that would be sweet.
You Spanish can keep the patos, more Velaros for everyone else ;).

Seriously, though, the massive success of the Madrid-Barcelona line has been nice for those of us in California because it is a very convincing argument for HSR (as Spain and CA have similar demographics/ geography) thus giving us yet example to fight the opposition.

380km/h would be amazing in commercial service, though i doubt they'd run it that fast (more wear, higher operating/maintanance costs), 330km/h seems more realistic. i just wish they'd get more velaros, they're definatly my favorite trains design wise.

i hope california decides on the velaro too! although i see AGV being more likely :(

^^

Visit www.tranvia.org

In the "galeria" you can see lots of photos ;)

it is better you to open a new thread for regular and IC trains :D

I am still waiting for an e-mail from this forum :ohno:

it is better you to open a new thread for regular and IC trains :D

I am still waiting for an e-mail from this forum :ohno:

On this page you can see most of the spanish electric and diesel Locos.

Just click on the (fichas material)
http://www.wefer.com/kinici-principal.htm

it is better you to open a new thread for regular and IC trains :D

I am still waiting for an e-mail from this forum :ohno:

We have one thread:

Conventional rail (Spanish width Iberian)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=672530

Madrid-Barcelona in 6 minutes

gmbMYTJpAAM

A line that looks very si,ilar to the project of high speed line in California. Spain resembles California in terms of both population density and terrain.

GZ_pz_-sSYQ

Wow, Madrid and Barcelona in 6 minutes. You would not even need to take a seat XD

When the speed will be 350km/h ?

Madrid-Barcelona in 6 minutes

gmbMYTJpAAM

A line that looks very si,ilar to the project of high speed line in California. Spain resembles California in terms of both population density and terrain.

GZ_pz_-sSYQ

Great videos !!!

The beautiful Guadalajara hidden in the fog. :lol:

When the speed will be 350km/h ?

It may be possible the next year. ADIF is testing the new system to run at 350 km / h

Wow, Madrid and Barcelona in 6 minutes. You would not even need to take a seat XD

With those speeds, I think you need to. :D

When the speed will be 350km/h ?

isn't it already?

^^

The speed limit of ERTMS level 1 is 300 km/h, like LZB or KVB.

Nice video of the AVE S:102 and S:100 near 300kmh, passing at the same moment!!


ooPSgwtKkrM


by ggd70!!

^^Great, but it is a pity than we cannot see the "crossing"...
:sly:

^^

The speed limit of ERTMS level 1 is 300 km/h, like LZB or KVB.


The Thing is... when will it increase to 350 km/h? I suspect that next phase has been put off..

^^

Be patient, my friend ;)

Since no one has posted any maps of the Spanish HSR constructions around the country, I figure I'd post some so people can get an idea of scale of railway constructions i Spain currently.

First a few maps of the HSR lines connecting Madrid to the mediterranean coast.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3126/3226101296_4a0f6c72ba_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3364/3226101398_e28700e740_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3399/3226085598_2e32767d4e_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3342/3226101288_b5506fac3d_o.jpg

Here is a map of the HSR line between Murcia and Almeria, as one can se they havn't progressed much here yet.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3103/3226071136_5be81affd4_o.jpg

Now we move a few hundred km to the west and find the Seville-Granada HSR line, partly built by the andalusian govenment partly built by the spanish government.

This is the part built by the spanish governmet, 120km in lenght.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3493/3226085532_ba1bab0ac6_o.jpg

And this is the part built by the andalusian government, 130km in lenght.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3388/3226085544_416fab7682_o.jpg

Now we move northwards to Extremadura, here the construction of the Madrid-Lissabon HSR line have started.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3327/3226071168_a570a4c032_o.jpg

Further north the construction of the Galician HSR line is ongoing. I couldn't find the oficial map by Fomento but this one will do. Later this year all exept for the blue part in the uppermost left corner will be under construction.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3417/3226085516_338f406855_o.jpg

Further north the construction is well underway on the northernmost section of this ca 400km long HSR line.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3110/3226085498_66335a535d_o.png

In Galicia itself there is the construction of the Atlantic HSR line.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3303/3226085512_bf8925b704_o.jpg

No we move to the north of the line Madrid-Valladolid, here the extension of the line will begin construction this year with a few section already begun.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3308/3226071154_ab16125456_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3504/3226071146_1b89b79877_o.jpg

North of this line they are constructing the new railway line through the asturian mountains wich includes a 25km long tunnel. I have not found a map of that though.


Further west we find the construction of the Basque HSR line.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3455/3226071162_6f55d0db46_o.png

In the north east corner of Spain we find the construction of the HSR line to France.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3312/3226071176_4b086ace6b_o.jpg

Other ongoing HSR line constructions i Spain include the Seville-Cadiz and Madrid-Jaen lines of wich I have not found any maps.

It's amazing what you can accomplish when you put your mind to it. I hope politicians in the U.S., and especially California, are reading this thread.

Very nice compilation Gincan!! Thank you very much!!:cheers:

What station in Barcelona will the new HSL use?

I think I read something about it being underground, and there was a possibility that it might damage that huge cathedral by Gaudi (I can't remember the name of it)

And what station will be used in Madrid?

More pictures/renders please :)

Spanish architecture is f*cking hot.

^^As far as I know it will service the main station, Barcelona Sants. The controversy about tunnelling underneath (well, almost...) La Sagrada Familia is not related to the railway station itself, but to the prolongation from the station toward the north in order to connect with the French LGV network north of Figueras.

I have a more general question to our Spanish friends. Many of the new projects (e.g. in the Basque country) seem to involve small bits of HSL wedged into classic lines. How is this possible in practice, since as far as I know the classic railway lines in Spain have another gauge width than the new highspeed lines? Are they going to use only variable-gauge trains on these lines?

well, i am not an expert in trains, but most of new HSL in the north will have that mixture of width auge so variable-gauge hig speed trains are now, and will be used...you can see ome pics of those trains posted soe pages before

What station in Barcelona will the new HSL use?

I think I read something about it being underground, and there was a possibility that it might damage that huge cathedral by Gaudi (I can't remember the name of it)

And what station will be used in Madrid?

More pictures/renders please :)

Spanish architecture is f*cking hot.

Barcelona Sants and Barcelona Sagrera will both be used, but the most important station will be Sagrera (see location (http://maps.google.es/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=es&geocode=&q=barcelona&sll=40.396764,-7.888184&sspn=10.152468,31.640625&ie=UTF8&ll=41.420557,2.193124&spn=0.009767,0.030899&t=h&z=16)).

Here you have an interesting PDF with renders and maps (2.6 MB): http://prensa.adif.es/ade/u08/GAP/Prensa.nsf/0/8071B444396A10B4C125754600583621/$file/Actuaciones%20La%20Sagrera-Nudo%20de%20la%20Trinidad%20Sector%20Sant%20Andreu.pdf


As for Madrid, Chamartín will be the main stop for HSLs to Castile and Leon, Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria and the Basque Country, while Atocha will serve Castile-La Mancha, Aragon, Catalonia, Valencian Community, Murcia, Andalusia, Extremadura, Navarre and La Rioja. Both stations will be connected through a new tunnel. The map:

http://i39.tinypic.com/3495log.jpg
(Source (http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/11A03621-8CDB-4687-819D-B8B080DB0C06/36297/08062004.pdf))

Also, as the number of passengers will increase with the construction of the new lines, both stations are being enlarged.

As for Atocha, here you have two PDFs, including renders and maps:
(1.9 MB):
http://www.madridiario.es/madridiario/madrid/Paneles%20Atocha%20Estacion.pdf

(4.1 MB): http://www.madridiario.es/madridiario/madrid/Paneles%20Atocha%20Remodelacion%20calles.pdf

And some diagrams about Chamartín (1.3 MB): http://www.fomento.es/NR/rdonlyres/0059249E-BA97-4F89-A3B0-CF9711BFA479/39690/081223MapasChamartin.pdf





I have a more general question to our Spanish friends. Many of the new projects (e.g. in the Basque country) seem to involve small bits of HSL wedged into classic lines. How is this possible in practice, since as far as I know the classic railway lines in Spain have another gauge width than the new highspeed lines? Are they going to use only variable-gauge trains on these lines?

Well, obviously the gauge will be changed from Iberian to UIC in those stretches. The same has been done in Galicia on the HSL "Eje Atlántico". The "gauge changers" are too expensive to put lots of them in every line and the trains have to slow down while they pass through them. Therefore it's cheaper to change the rails. Also, there are plans to convert all the Spanish lines to UIC gauge, but I don't think it's done until... 2030? :lol:

Well, due to the success of this thread, I also want to show you the works of my hometown's new station.

Currently the railway cuts the town in two from East to West even though it goes on a "trench", also the people living near it are tired of the noise caused by the trains, especially the freight ones. Fortunately the freight station was moved to a industrial estate located in the outskirts.

Then they decided to cover the railway and make a new underground station for trains and buses. The project also includes five twenty-storey towers... not bad for a 150,000 inhabitants town.

The new sleepers will support Iberian and UIC gauge, so that the gauge can be easily changed when the HSL arrives.

Here you have a picture by the forumer Titin.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/28-29AGO07/PATQ-CVRS/PATQ29SEP11.jpg
^^ This position is for UIC gauge, when the rail is on the left it's for Iberian gauge.

Some renders:

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/LogrooAdif2-1.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/LogrooAdif1-1.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/LogrooAdif4-1.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/LogrooAdif5-1.jpg


While the underground station is built and the railways covered, there will be a provisional station (in green).
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/LogrooAdif6-1.jpg

These pictures were taken on September 2008, the provisional station is already in use.

1. Looking West. The provisional station to the left, the workshops and old station to the right.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/1.jpg

2. You can see that the old rails of the freight station have been dismantled.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/2-1.jpg

3.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/3-1.jpg

4. Placing the catenary
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/4-1.jpg

5. Looking East. The provisional railway.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/5-1.jpg

6.
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z58/ciceron00/6-1.jpg

Here is a better photo of the dual gauge sleepers, by monolo

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3181/2873474798_0ff815d8e0_o.jpg

These types of sleepers are installed on every singel railwayline in spain so that they can convert it in the future, ofcause the big problem will be the conversion of the rollingstock.

ofcause the big problem will be the conversion of the rollingstock.

All modern trains have been projected with the conversion to standard gauge in mind.

And if and when the gauge will be changed (I hope as soon as possible) probably all train will be convertible.

Here some pictures from August 2008. They show the work at the high speed line in Castilla La Mancha. The pcitures are taken South of Torencón (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=Taranc%C3%B3n&sll=40.408311,-3.712806&sspn=0.012565,0.021887&ie=UTF8&ll=39.955543,-3.008881&spn=0.101189,0.175095&z=13).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3482/3243987150_f33d51103f_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3394/3243987358_7de2c9454d_o.jpg
Bridge carrying the CM-200 over the future HSR line.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3391/3243155785_2aeb0f1a2c_o.jpg
View in West direction near the bridge.

wonderful project

Will new line Barcelona-Figueras and next to Perpignan be open this year?

Will new line Barcelona-Figueras and next to Perpignan be open this year?

hi friends, It is expected that this ready for ends of 2010

Even the rail and the overhead power cable being mounted.

bye

Will new line Barcelona-Figueras and next to Perpignan be open this year?

Perpignan-Figueras: this month.

Figueras-Barcelona: 2012.

But the first will be completely useless until 2012, because it ends nowhere near Figueras (not in Figueras station), and there is still the problem of the gauge.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3392/3253623003_cf042c4ab1_o.jpg
Picture from 3.2.2008, most probabably taken from 42.355531 2.903674 about 8 km before the temporary end near Figueres.

But the first will be completely useless until 2012, because it ends nowhere near Figueras (not in Figueras station), and there is still the problem of the gauge.

The gauge problem can be solved with the S-130 trains which can change gauge. Afak 4 trains will be prepaired to run till Perpignan, where they will be also able to shunt under 1500 V.

Thank you, I have read that they planend to use the S130 but I didn't know it was sure. Anyway the S130 cannot be used until the construction of a connection between the new and the old lines and of a gauge changer. That is, in 2010 at the earliest, one year after the opening of the Perpignan-(in the middle of nowhere near) Figueras line.

The new line now ends here: http://maps.google.it/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=it&q=Figueres,+Girona,+Catalogna,+Spagna&sll=64.359822,-21.447716&sspn=0.103547,0.307617&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=FWrzhAIdyC0tAA&split=0&ll=42.289056,2.932127&spn=0.011064,0.019226&t=k&z=16

the dual gauge sleepers are cool, thx for posting images

I just want to congratulate Spain on building such a great HSR system.

The infrastructure in this country is amazing, much better than America's.

The Perpignan-(in the middle of nowhere near) Figueras line.

The new line now ends here: http://maps.google.it/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=it&q=Figueres,+Girona,+Catalogna,+Spagna&sll=64.359822,-21.447716&sspn=0.103547,0.307617&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=FWrzhAIdyC0tAA&split=0&ll=42.289056,2.932127&spn=0.011064,0.019226&t=k&z=16

http://fotos.miarroba.com/fotos/7/b/7bb1c48d.jpg
Crosspost from the spanish LAV Madrid - Zaragoza - Barcelona - Frontera Francesa (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=31848234#post31848234) thread. The picture show the temporary end in the middle of nowhere as it was in September 2008. Till now nothing changed. (btw: you see a britisch class 37 locomotive parked at the left track.)

I´ve got a question for our Spanish experts here, I´ve been wondering if the Talgo 350 could do the Madrid-Seville faster than the currently fastest schedule of 2h:20m that is adopted for the TGV-A trains?

Since the Talgo has passive tilting, better acceleration, better retardation and the line has many bottlenecks and slow curvs. I believe it should be possible to shave of 5-10 min of traveltime since the Talgo can go faster through the curves and the bottlenecks.

When exactly will be open a railway line Perpignan - Figueras –Barcelona -Madrid? In this year? I found here (http://inforail.pl/text.php?id=18514&from=tag) information about that the line is to be put into service this year.
PS. The infrastructure in Spain is amazing one of the best on the world :)

so, will there be a direct Madrid-Paris connection?

I just took the 'Euromed' between Barcelona and Valencia last week. However, what surprised me, was that the train never went faster than 195 km/h obviously due to the fact that this route isn't HSR compatible yet.

Are there any plans to upgrade this line for speeds of 300+ km/h?

When exactly will be open a railway line Perpignan - Figueras –Barcelona -Madrid? In this year? I found here (http://inforail.pl/text.php?id=18514&from=tag) information about that the line is to be put into service this year.
PS. The infrastructure in Spain is amazing one of the best on the world :)

I don't think it's finished until 2011-2012.

I just took the 'Euromed' between Barcelona and Valencia last week. However, what surprised me, was that the train never went faster than 195 km/h obviously due to the fact that this route isn't HSR compatible yet.

Are there any plans to upgrade this line for speeds of 300+ km/h?

The "Corredor Mediterráneo" is supposed to replace the current line.

Some info: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corredor_Mediterr%C3%A1neo

Pictures of the works in near Tarragona: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=212440&page=6


Bonus: Madrid-Asturias line, near Pajares tunnels.

http://www.leonoticias.com/adjuntos/fichero_22517_20090306.jpg

I just took the 'Euromed' between Barcelona and Valencia last week. However, what surprised me, was that the train never went faster than 195 km/h obviously due to the fact that this route isn't HSR compatible yet.

Are there any plans to upgrade this line for speeds of 300+ km/h?

Right now they are constructing a new railroad between Tarragona HSR station and Vandellos Nuclear powerplant where it will connect to the old railroad.

From Vandellos to Castellon they have yet to decide when they will build a dedicated passenger railroad although it is on the agenda (low priority). Between Castellon and Valencia they will build a new dedicated passenger HSR line, to open 2015.

So by 2015 well have HSR between Barcelona and Vandellos, then uppgraded tracks between Vandellos and Castellon and finally HSR between Castellon and Valencia.

Now the Vandellos-Castellon section will probably still be iberian gauge for the freight trains so the service between Barcelona and Valencia will be handled by Variable gauge trains.

Now until Talgo or CAF come up with a variable gauge train that can run 300km/h they will have to use the current stock wich is limited to 250km/h on HSR and 220km/h on iberian gauge (although only with ERTMS, the spanish ASFA is limited to 200km/h).

The missing HSR between Vandellos and Castellon will probably not be built before 2020.

The Euromed can run up to 220km/h between Tarragona and Valencia, the tracks are authorised for this speed but the signaling only permit 200km/h.

Have any current maps or plans of HSL in Spain and maps of planned lines? :)

^^ here is a very big one..

BIG (http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07525/RFE413.jpg)

you can also check here..

Alta velocidad: Hilo Oficial (III) (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=571984)

President Obama's economic stimulus package includes $8 billion for speeding up train travel. America is far behind other industrial countries in high speed rail. A few years ago, Spain was also behind the curve. But the Spanish network is expanding fast, and the trains are beating planes.

casas huesca | (http://www.turispain.com/casas-rurales-huesca.html)rural en madrid | (http://www.turispain.com/casas-rurales-madrid.html) rurales lerida | (http://www.turispain.com/casas-rurales-lerida.html)casa rural zaragoza (http://www.turispain.com/casas-rurales-zaragoza.html)

President Obama's economic stimulus package includes $8 billion for speeding up train travel. America is far behind other industrial countries in high speed rail. A few years ago, Spain was also behind the curve. But the Spanish network is expanding fast, and the trains are beating planes.

casas huesca | (http://www.turispain.com/casas-rurales-huesca.html)rural en madrid | (http://www.turispain.com/casas-rurales-madrid.html) rurales lerida | (http://www.turispain.com/casas-rurales-lerida.html)casa rural zaragoza (http://www.turispain.com/casas-rurales-zaragoza.html)

True, but AMerica isn't going to make the long-term spending commitment to HSR the way Spain did. The total amount of money Obama plans to allocate to HSR in his first term is only $13 billion.

Don´t know if this has been posted alredy but here is a link with some usefull videos concerning the HSR construction in Spain, they are all in spanish though.

http://video.adif.es/

This video is an exception, it's publicity for the new line Madrid-Valencia with english narrator.

http://video.adif.es/video/iLyROoafJTV_.html

One more video in english about the implementation of ERTMS

http://video.adif.es/video/iLyROoafJ-aG.html

Thanks for the links, very interesting.

If only the USA and Canada would follow suit in Spain's plans, hell India is going to have world class high speed rail at this rate before North America!

If only the USA and Canada would follow suit in Spain's plans, hell India is going to have world class high speed rail at this rate before North America!

India can afford it better:cheers:. Instead of financing the US deficits they can better invest the money themselves.

If only the USA and Canada would follow suit in Spain's plans, hell India is going to have world class high speed rail at this rate before North America!


well, the US are much, much bigger than spain is and even more than twice the EU, 9.826.630 km² to 4.324.782 km²..

there are many traces where it would make sense, like LA-SF, NYC-Philadelphia-Washington DC, NYC-Chicago. so you just have to move the governors of the different states and let them think that that´s exactly what the voters want.. :|

Some amazing pictures of the access to Valencia taken by ALGIROS.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=140615&page=46

Lo prometido es deuda.

Entrada a Valencia:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0321A.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0322A.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0323A.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0331A.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0332A.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0333A.jpg

Espero que os gusten.

Ale, segunda tanda de fotos -con skyline incluido :D-

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0344.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0345.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0356.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0355.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0354.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0347.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0348.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0349.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0351.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0352.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa225/ALGIROS/PICT0350.jpg


Esto es todo amigos, a disfrutarlas.

Great pictures.

When is the Madrid-Valencia high speed line expected to open?

Last quarter of 2010.

well, the US are much, much bigger than spain is and even more than twice the EU, 9.826.630 km² to 4.324.782 km²..

there are many traces where it would make sense, like LA-SF, NYC-Philadelphia-Washington DC, NYC-Chicago. so you just have to move the governors of the different states and let them think that that´s exactly what the voters want.. :|

there will be 2 high speed rail routes under construction in California--one approved by Californians (LA to San Francisco) and one in federal "stimulus" package recently approved (LA to Las Vegas)

Some photos of HST in Spain.

Madrid Atocha:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/102-Talgo350/Madrid/46.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/102-Talgo350/Madrid/43.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/103-Velaro/misc/44.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/103-Velaro/misc/45.jpg

Valencia:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/100_1-Euromed/Valencia/186-Euromed.jpg

Zaragoza:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/102-Talgo350/Zaragoza/AVE-102_Zaragoza_1.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/102-Talgo350/Zaragoza/102_008-090305.jpg
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/102-Talgo350/Zaragoza/102_412-260205.jpg

Near Titulcia:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/130-Talgo250/00_caf130_ti.jpg

Valladolid Campo Grande:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/130-Talgo250/130VA1101082.jpg

Ávila:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/130-Talgo250/JJJ_0757.jpg
railfaneurope.net

Irun:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/130-Talgo250/RN130-034Iru1602.jpg

In the foreground three rail tracks for french and spanish cars:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/130-Talgo250/RN130-021Iru0302.jpg

Barcelona Estacio de França:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/130-Talgo250/UT130_BCN_21dec2008.jpg
railfaneurope.net

Those last few pictures show engines of a design I haven't seen before. Are they made by Talgo?

I love Spanish HSR.:)

Those last few pictures show engines of a design I haven't seen before. Are they made by Talgo?

I love Spanish HSR.:)

Yes, they are. They´re the S-130 series, called "Alvia". The whole train (engines and carriages) can change gauge in less than a minute. That´s why they are used on all routes that use both European standard gauge rails and Iberian gauge rails. Whenever a new stretch of HSL is opened, gauge changing facilities are placed at the end of it, so that trains of this type can continue their trip to further destinations on Iberian gauge. For example: at the moment, the Madrid-Santander Alvia uses the HSL up to Valladolid and there changes gauge and continues to Santander on Iberian gauge track. On HSL lines this model can drive at a max. speed of 250 km/h and on Iberien gauge tracks, 220 km/h.

Yes, they are. They´re the S-130 series, called "Alvia". The whole train (engines and carriages) can change gauge in less than a minute. That´s why they are used on all routes that use both European standard gauge rails and Iberian gauge rails. Whenever a new stretch of HSL is opened, gauge changing facilities are placed at the end of it, so that trains of this type can continue their trip to further destinations on Iberian gauge. For example: at the moment, the Madrid-Santander Alvia uses the HSL up to Valladolid and there changes gauge and continues to Santander on Iberian gauge track. On HSL lines this model can drive at a max. speed of 250 km/h and on Iberien gauge tracks, 220 km/h.
Are they compatible with French LGV, too?

Are they compatible with French LGV, too?
Some trains will be prepaired for 1500 V to enter Perpignan. They will use the LGV Perignan - Figueras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGV_Perpignan-Figueres) once it will be connected near Figueras to the Iberian gauge network. Theoreticaly they can operate also on the 25 kV in France if the singaling system of the trains is adapted. The train is a joint product from Talgo and Bombardier. The powerheads are build in the Bombardier factory in Kassel, Germany. Engineering work for the electrical equipment of the power heads was done in Switzerland. The power head body shells are built by Talgo in Las Matas, Spain. The coaches are built by Talgo, some are remodeled Talgo 7 coaches.

really lik the Zaragoza Station :cheers:

Have any current maps or plans of HSL in Spain and maps of planned lines? :)

Here is the most up to date map, it can be downloaded from the following link
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=dxggnmkmxym&thumb=5

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3636/3507602732_e93ffd469f_b.jpg

A video (in spainsh) about the new trainstation that will be built in Barcelona.

http://www.barcelonasagrera.com/galeria.asp?goTo=video&videoID=1

Actually the video is in Catalan ;).

Actually the video is in Catalan ;).

In the top right corner you find Idioma CAT/ESP, just click on ESP and the video will load in spanish.

Checking the resistence of a bridge (Contreras viaduct) in the new HSL Madrid-Valencia, due to open at the end of 2010.
Regards.


http://foto-cache.lasprovincias.es/jpg/6/7/1244040073976.jpg

http://foto-cache.lasprovincias.es/jpg/0/5/1244040074250.jpg

http://foto-cache.lasprovincias.es/jpg/7/7/1244040074377.jpg

http://foto-cache.lasprovincias.es/jpg/6/4/1244040076946.jpg

http://foto-cache.lasprovincias.es/jpg/2/4/1244040077242.jpg

http://servicios.lasprovincias.es/documentos/imag/contreras_viaducto.jpg

If only the USA and Canada would follow suit in Spain's plans, hell India is going to have world class high speed rail at this rate before North America!

We're going to do it

"We're going to do it"

.....after everyone else :-p

"We're going to do it"

.....after everyone else :-p

Well, in the US of A, recently (since the early 1930's) they have prioritised car and aeroplane transport systems.

Also, the idea of maglev came from USA.

One thing is sure: when the US of A decide to do something they'll do it...., and very quickly.

Perhaps, they won't necessarily built a conventional HST's network, but a Very High Speed maglev of second or third generation, capable of travelling at hypersonic speed.

The idea of hypersonic maglev, capable of doing -let's say New York -LA - in less than 2hrs, will titillate the Americans more than an old fashion train on rail, but capable of travelling at only 220mph.

On the pipeline there are new generations of superconductors, which seems to be quite promising.

The French have been very good at pushing and marketing conventional rail technology near its envelopmental limits.

For a Country of the size of the USA, maglev technology cannot be easily dismissed.

Also, the Americans love new "gadgets".

The conventional train (on wheel and rails) is "old" technology, belonging to the last century.

But maglev is a "new" upcoming technology, belonging to the 21st century.

You might have noticed that the USA are techologically quite innovative..

Have a nice day!

"We're going to do it"

.....after everyone else :-p

Well we can't be number one at everything, can we? :D

Perhaps, they won't necessarily built a conventional HST's network, but a Very High Speed maglev of second or third generation, capable of travelling at hypersonic speed.


^^ feel free to add a few more generations..

that´s the first one. design from 1903..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/5/57/Magnethochbahn_1903.PNG

too bad the usa cant afford anything anymore LOL

With all due respect, but:

We're going to do it

I'll believe it when I see it. These networks take long-term commitment. Just look at Spain: they started construction in the early nineties, and finishing a network just the size of Spain's is expected to take them well into the next decade.
Sure, if/when Obama gets re-elected, I could well see the US starting construction on one line somewhere. But a real network? With a possible President Palin? Sorry, but I'll believe it when I see it.

One thing is sure: when the US of A decide to do something they'll do it...., and very quickly.

Perhaps, they won't necessarily built a conventional HST's network, but a Very High Speed maglev of second or third generation, capable of travelling at hypersonic speed.

The idea of hypersonic maglev, capable of doing -let's say New York -LA - in less than 2hrs, will titillate the Americans more than an old fashion train on rail, but capable of travelling at only 220mph.

On the pipeline there are new generations of superconductors, which seems to be quite promising.

The French have been very good at pushing and marketing conventional rail technology near its envelopmental limits.

For a Country of the size of the USA, maglev technology cannot be easily dismissed.

Also, the Americans love new "gadgets".

The conventional train (on wheel and rails) is "old" technology, belonging to the last century.

But maglev is a "new" upcoming technology, belonging to the 21st century.

You might have noticed that the USA are techologically quite innovative..

Have a nice day!
I can understand that you dream about something like that but the truth is that if convential rails has been used for HST, it is for good reasons.
You have to understand that maglev technologies or similar need a total reconstruction of all tracks. For new cities or cities getting rebuild like Shangai or Dubai, it is doable.
But try to imagine now that you need to bring a maglev line to the center of New York.
Good luck :-)
With traditionnal HST, you can use the existing tracks and take the whole advantage of the train : from city downtown to city downtown.
There is already enough to do in the Bos-Was area, in California, in Florida, ...
Let's start with this, and we'll see if one day maglev technologie can become a good solution for New-York to LA.
Until then, planes shouldn't worry at all!

The new and the old, a very nice photograph of an AVE train, a B747 supertanker and a castle in Ciudad Real.

-> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tercerafundacion/3743540461/

The new and the old, a very nice photograph of an AVE train, a B747 supertanker and a castle in Ciudad Real.

-> http://www.flickr.com/photos/tercerafundacion/3743540461/

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2544/3743540461_a3f31a3316_o.jpg

^^ Embedding a picture in an unsuitable size that has already been linked is useless and pretty moronic.

Talgo’s 380 km/h Avril train to take on the airlines (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/10/avril-takes-on-the-airlines/browse/1.html)

With 300 km/h operation the journey time is 2 h 40 min non-stop, or around 3 h with calls at Zaragoza, Lleida and Camp de Tarragona. According to Ignacio de Rebeira Sánchez, Head of Innovation at RENFE’s High Speed & Long Distance business, a 2 h 30 min timing is essential; he believes this will be achievable with 320 km/h running, which he considers more realistic than the 350 km/h for which the line was designed.

Shame.

Avril is intended to provide up to 700 seats in a 200 m single-deck trainset. Moving the traction equipment underfloor will release space in the power cars, and Talgo plans to capitalise on the short 13 m length of the trailers by pushing the width out to 3 200 mm, permitting 3+2 seating in second class.

According to company insiders, Avril is being designed for operation at no less than 380 km/h, with inter-car linkages helping to keep the wide bodies within the loading gauge and possibly providing a small degree of tilt in curves. While the prototype is envisaged as a standard-gauge trainset, it is also seen as a platform for a future gauge-convertible version.

A 380km/h, 700 seat, tilting, gauge-changing train? Nice.

^^

Already today the direct trains can and do run the 621km in 2h 30min, the only reason Renfe stick with the inflated 2h 40min is to avoid paying refunds to the customers in case of late runs.

They could set the timetable to 2h 30min without raising the speed and still have most trains on time, but ofcause it looks better in the statistics with 99,5% of all sheduled trains on time.

Has anyone here seen the 1976 film The Big Bus?

Not that it's relevant to a thread about Spain's high speed railway...

A collection of construction pics from around spain can be found here

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=119926&page=25

A collection of construction pics from around spain can be found here

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=119926&page=25

Sweet pics.:):cheers:

From railpictures.net, following the other amazing threads by New York Morning

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/0/0/1/1001.1250210273.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/4/1/4/9414.1249015545.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/7/0/9670.1248732680.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/4/2/2742.1248342082.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/8/3/2783.1246215505.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/9/3/0/9930.1246280469.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/3/5/2635.1245685269.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/3/4/6/6346.1243701932.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/8/9/3/7893.1240132635.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/0/3/2/1032.1231708269.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/7/4/9/4749.1231687769.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/0/2/2602.1231606100.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/3/3/6633.1231450372.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/2/1/0/9210.1231343361.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/3/6/0/3360.1231263499.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/0/0/1/4001.1230540521.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/2/8/7/6287.1229042431.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/2/8/7/6287.1229042431.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/2/1/4/6214.1228582568.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/4/0/5/4405.1227799223.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/9/3/9/4939.1226618088.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/3/7/1537.1226616020.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/1/7/7/3177.1226596579.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/6/1/3/7613.1226151548.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/3/6/5/8365.1224032195.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/9/1/3/1913.1222554676.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/4/3/9/2439.1221857810.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/6/0/9560.1221850831.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/8/4/6/7846.1220978368.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/4/4/3544.1218309344.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/3/8/1/5381.1215121676.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/2/2/5522.1214561617.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/8/8/6/2886.1235747054.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/3/2/5/2325.1233248086.jpg

Cool railway :)

sorry, don't wanna offense you, but from my point of view it's (a little bit) disturbin' seing pictures without a minimum of explanation, at least place of the picture. So others (non Spaniards in this case, me included) can get an added value by these posted pictures and information ...

^^ I was going to say much the same thing. :) Is there any point just dumping photos from railpictures.net without any information or commentary? This kind of thing comes close to being out and out spam, especially when New York Morning posts page after page of the same Russian locomotives even though he's Russian himself and therefore could (a) dig up plenty of imformation about railways in Russia and (b) easily avoid posting photos of the same locomotive classes over and over again.

From railpictures.net, following the other amazing threads by New York Morning

Thanks, amigo :) Tambien tengo un poquito, voy a ayudarte :)

http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/16YV5JzVRq.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/8rFLEn2WN5.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/NwQxo7wW5g.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/Gh3h44UGYr.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/Na7pSXJHUi.jpg

http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/Z87lSJ3B9x.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/8V8uzUi4BW.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/aOykvVTCf9.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/QFHR2C39DM.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/A52TgUEpA4.jpg

^^ I was going to say much the same thing. :) Is there any point just dumping photos from railpictures.net without any information or commentary? This kind of thing comes close to being out and out spam, especially when New York Morning posts page after page of the same Russian locomotives even though he's Russian himself and therefore could (a) dig up plenty of imformation about railways in Russia and (b) easily avoid posting photos of the same locomotive classes over and over again.

I just want my country to be presented in this forum. Is it bad? :) About the information: ask me if you wonder smth, Ill answer you. :)

http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/EHJMx34w4P.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/aOWBP6U8yl.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/w5XsR6HZdk.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/19kY7T2HVg.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/PEDObRgzmT.jpg

http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/W8iTmBie2I.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/MwV59nnNTO.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/mq1ISowdV2.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/1OTqonXhzU.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/nA5Vomr22O.jpg

http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/KSA7EI00TL.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/PuSx3XC5L2.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/3e8v0gUF5M.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/R97Z4vY3a3.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/Om3Ru12wSW.jpg

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http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/3UL9IfRROa.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/hvGD7v6KbY.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/aDdnQu52p7.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/wI8CTh7ozM.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/MVg2mO6DeV.jpg

http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/qGFSdulg0x.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/pcCfn75Hs5.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/5FRzdFUKu6.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/dOm4AVUnw6.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/API0O460XW.jpg

http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/6bFRK58QNe.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/2TBeUo1s2b.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/NUFhZpNyp3.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/M931zFpC2S.jpg http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/zvSRyW711m.jpg

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Some information:


There are at least, three different kind of track in Spain

1-Conventional one is wider than the rest of Europe (only Spain and Portugal share the same gauge)

2-High speed trach, which is less wider than the spanish conventional one

3-And FEVE track, which is slightly narrower. That's the reason whyFEVE trains are slowlier than the conventional ones.

FEVE (Ferrocarriles de Vía Estrecha[1], meaning "Narrow-Gauge Railways") is a state-owned Spanish railway company, which operates most of Spain's 1,250 km (777 mi) of metre gauge railway.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/43/FEVE_map.png/800px-FEVE_map.png

FEVE was created in 1965, as a successor to the government-run organization EFE (Explotación de Ferrocarriles por el Estado), which had been taking over failed private railways since 1926. Following the creation in 1941 of RENFE, to which the ownership of all Spanish broad-gauge railways was transferred, EFE had in practice become the operator of a collection of exclusively narrow-gauge lines. The present status of FEVE, as a government-owned commercial company, dates from 1972.

The new company continued to absorb independent narrow-gauge lines (1,435 mm, 1,062 mm, 1,000 mm, 915 mm & 750 mm) which the existing concession holders had been unable to make profitable. However, from 1978 onwards, with the introduction of regional devolution under the new Spanish constitution, FEVE also began transferring responsibility for a number of its operations to the new regional governments. This happened in Catalonia in 1978, in the Valencian Community in 1986, with a part of the Basque network in 1979, and with Majorcan Railways in 1994.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e2/FEVE_3800_in_Muros_de_Nal%C3%B3n.jpg/800px-FEVE_3800_in_Muros_de_Nal%C3%B3n.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEVE

More info:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Lgotipo_de_Renfe_Operadora.svg/800px-Lgotipo_de_Renfe_Operadora.svg.png

Renfe Operadora is the state-owned company which operates freight and passenger trains on the 1668-mm "Iberian gauge" and 1435-mm "European gauge" networks of the Spanish national railway infrastructure company ADIF (Administrador de Infraestructuras Ferroviarias).

[edit] Operations

Map of the Spanish rail network as it was in 2005, with colour-coded track types. Renfe Operadora operates in broad and standard gauge lines.The company operates some 15,000 km of railways, most of which are constructed to the broad "Iberian" gauge of 1668 mm, the same as that used in Portugal but wider than the gauge of 1435 mm which is standard in France and most of western and central Europe. The newer high-speed (AVE) network, however, has been built to the international standard gauge of 1435 mm gauge in anticipation of its eventual connection to the rest of the European railway system. For this reason, the 1435-mm gauge is generally termed "European gauge" in Spain.

The Spanish high-speed system is called AVE. (Alta Velocidad Española, Spanish High Speed). The logo incorporates a feature which resembles a bird (ave in Spanish). The high-speed lines are built to the standard European gauge (1435 mm).
Construction of the high-speed rail line between Madrid and Seville began in 1988 and operation commenced in 1991. Train speed on the Seville line is 300 km/h. The second high-speed rail line, from Madrid to Barcelona, was completed in 2007 with the inaugural service commencing at 6 am February 20, 2008. The operational speed on this road is 350 km/h. The greater part of the line, from Madrid to Lleida, was put in service on October 11, 2003, with connection to Huesca from Zaragoza. The third high-speed line, Madrid - Toledo was opened in November 2005, followed by the spur from Córdoba to Málaga as far as Antequera in 2007. Another high-speed route from Madrid to Valladolid was opened in 2007, and other lines to Valencia and Lisbon are being designed. The route Madrid-Galicia is under construction between the major Galician cities.

Other lines operated by Renfe include Alaris, a moderate-speed line between Madrid and Valencia.

In addition to intercity transport, Renfe operates commuter train systems, known as Cercanías (or Rodalies in Catalonia and Cercanías-Aldirikoak in the Basque Country), in eleven metropolitan areas, including Madrid and Barcelona. The former was targeted in the March 11, 2004 Madrid train bombings. While the latter and some of the regional trains going to Barcelona have been without service since 20 October 2007. In some cities Renfe shares the market with other commuter railway operators, such as FGC in Barcelona.

Map of Spanish railnetwork in 2005, from then up to now other High speed lines were being inaugurated as a Madrid-Barcelona, Marid-Valladolid, Madrid-Málaga (they don't appear in the map)

Yellow line with green dots= High speed line


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Red_ferroviaria_espa_ola.png

http://pic.ipicture.ru/uploads/090816/MwV59nnNTO.jpg

This is an old barcelona metro train (which are not in use anymore) (line 5) TMB means "Transports metropolitans de Barcelona) :)

^^ I was going to say much the same thing. :) Is there any point just dumping photos from railpictures.net without any information or commentary? This kind of thing comes close to being out and out spam, especially when New York Morning posts page after page of the same Russian locomotives even though he's Russian himself and therefore could (a) dig up plenty of imformation about railways in Russia and (b) easily avoid posting photos of the same locomotive classes over and over again.

I understand your point, so I add some info ;)

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