ask the 13 colombians, bolivians and equatorians killed by a HST while ilegaly crossing the tracks in Castelldefels...

That train was not a HST but a Commuter train (Rodalies)...

That train was not a HST but a Commuter train (Rodalies)...

No, it actually was an Alaris. The dead were crossing the tracks, and the commuter train had just left them in the station.

ask the 13 colombians, bolivians and equatorians killed by a HST while ilegaly crossing the tracks in Castelldefels...

Crossing tracks is a common practice in Spain, part because over/underpasses are relatively new in Spain but part because of bad design. (sideplatforms invite to cross the track) Renfe should have decided on 70-80 cm island platforms for all their commuter train stations decades ago. That would have been great now when the old narrow sideplatforms are overcrowded with little or no space to expand them.

I grew up in a country with 100% island platforms on the commuter train network, during 20 years I never once saw a single person cross the tracks. In Spain I witness this practice daily and narrow escapes are common.

people, could somebody tell me few things about rolling stock: does series 102/112 (el pato) appear on route Barcelona - Madrid? if yes, is there continous service on the same train? if yes, which number that train is? also, does it ever appear on route Madrid - Sevilla? and last - how often it is on the route to Malga comparing to series 103?

Could someone add pictures of the newly build station of Barcelona-Sagrera?:)

As far I know:

does series 102/112 (el pato) appear on route Barcelona - Madrid? if yes, is there continous service on the same train? if yes, which number that train is?

102/112 are used on Barcellona-Sevilla/Malaga trains (without stop in Madrid), on the Barcellona-Madrid line only 103 (Velaro E) trains are used.

also, does it ever appear on route Madrid - Sevilla?

Madrid-Sevilla mainly, or only, uses the series 100 (TGV).

and last - how often it is on the route to Malga comparing to series 103?

To Malaga only or mainly 102 are used, and 112 on Valencia.

On the Madrid-Valladolid all trains are amde with variable gauge vehicles (120 or 130 and derived) or the non-tilting Pendolino (104), except one AVE service (102?).

No, it actually was an Alaris. The dead were crossing the tracks, and the commuter train had just left them in the station.

Thanks for the comment, I wasn't right then.
:)

I like the light on the platform for passengers security.

tJUhNFBICW8

^^ Here in portugal old people are always crossing at grade from one platform to the other in the northern line ... and the platforms are all over 1m high.

Suicidal tendancies ... :dunno:




Once I even saw and old fool crossing with his bike (on it's back) while we were aproaching at 220km/h ... somehow miraculously he managed to escape safely ... by the time we had aplied the emergency breakes we were already besides him ... somehow he found the strenght to throw the bike over to the platform and tren made a kickboxing-like move and climbed the platform ... :lol:


On the other hand ... the tendancies for crossing the tracks in the spanish major stations is there ... extremelly low platforms everywhere ... just think of being inside a Talgo and needing to step DOWN from it. :dunno:

^^
Don´t think there are that many low platforms left, they still exist, but not so many as it used to...
The tendency is to put all platforms at the standard 68cm.
It takes time, of course.

New stations have new platforms as well as reformed or updated stations are changed in that way.

Anyway... not all trains are similar. For example, new local trains have the gate at the high of the platform only in the central wagon (the other two wagons are a little higher because they have under them the powertrain).

A train on the Bilbao-Leon line (Northern Spain, not too far from the Atlantic coast), this narrow-gauge line belongs to Feve, the state company which runs many narrow-gauge trains in Northern Spain.

It´s been filmed near San Martin de Porres. It´s a Feve class 2700 diesel unit.

o3Kqp0CZ85Y

Video by joserra7.

^^ Thanks for the video, it is so beautiful!!

Just to have a location, that train runs from León to Bilbao, San Martín de Porres is a little village in the north of Burgos province.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/736/fevesanmartindeporres.png (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/fevesanmartindeporres.png/)

Just out of curiosity, just how narrow is the gauge on the Bilbao-Leon line?

Just out of curiosity, just how narrow is the gauge on the Bilbao-Leon line?
Exactly 1 metre!

So the same gauge as Japanese and Taiwanese railroads?

So the same gauge as Japanese and Taiwanese railroads?

I´m not quite sure about the Japanese or Taiwanese railway gauges, but I´d say it should be more. One metre, that is 1000 mm, doesn´t seem enough to me for the high speeds of the Shinkansen in Japan. I guess it´s more like the standard European gauge, 1445 mm.

So the same gauge as Japanese and Taiwanese railroads?
Metre gauge is 67mm less than the Japanese and Taiwanese gauges.

So the same gauge as Japanese and Taiwanese railroads?

As said, Japanese and Taiwanese raiwlays (except high speed) use Cape gauge (1067 mm or 3 ft 6 in), while most European railways use metre gauge (1000 mm or 3 ft 3 3⁄8 in), or less frequently the Bosnian gauge (750~760 mm, about 2 ft 6 in).

Other railways use anormal gauges like 950 mm (3 ft 1 2⁄5 in), 914 mm (3 ft), 1100 mm, 1050 mm, 891 mm, 800 mm, ... some of these gauges have been choosen by just one railway.

See Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_gauges

Coccodrillo, 3-ft gauge isn't abnormal in the U.S. Even though relatively few examples remain (the East Broad Top being a good example), it was once the dominant narrow gauge here.

I didn't realize there was such a large disparity between Cape gauge and meter gauge. Meter gauge is, of course, wider than 3-ft, but I'd always thought meter gauge was Cape gauge.

Onkel Beto: I am well aware the Shinkansen is standard gauge. Older Japanese mainlines are built in Cape gauge, however, which is also dominant in Southeast Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.

Coccodrillo, 3-ft gauge isn't abnormal in the U.S. Even though relatively few examples remain (the East Broad Top being a good example), it was once the dominant narrow gauge here.

If the 3ft gauge is common in the US (but also in Ireland) is because of the British influence with their imperial system. That's also why Australia choose the 3ft6in: both are "round" numbers with british units, but are not with metric (914 and 1067 mm), while with the metric system is the inverse (1000 mm and 750 mm are exactly one metre and 3/4 of a metre).

What is strange is that India for most of its narrow gauge lines chose the 1000 mm gauge, not the 3ft or the 3ft6in.

What is even more strange, is that the most common gauge of the world (used on around 55% of line mileage) is a "strange" number either in the british (4 ft 8 1/2 in) either in the metric (1435 mm) systems :nuts:

Leon-Bilbao, and Bilbao-Ferrol (all the coast railway)

In the 40s, all railway companies were nationalited by the State and they change the wide of all of them except someones. The biggest is this one but near Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia, etc... there are local trains on this wide.

There is only a daily train Leon-Bilbao which stops in all stations.
I have been "lucky" and had to stop in railway passes over roads with the trains in both directions (and they are located far away from my home!!!, and there are few road passes...).


For people who wants to make tourism:

http://www.eltranscantabricogranlujo.com/en/

A seven day trip on a very luxurious train. Just only 48 passengers with a 3.500 EUR price for the week all included.

It is enough to know the restaurants where the receive you and say good bye to see the type of luxe.

In the train you only sleep, have rest and breakfast. All meals and trips are outside the train.

This year way is San Sebastian-Santiago de Compostela (Bilbao-El Ferrol by train, and from/to San Sebastian/Santiago by bus).

Other years the have made Leon-Bilbao-Santiago. They change every year.

As said, Japanese and Taiwanese raiwlays (except high speed) use Cape gauge (1067 mm or 3 ft 6 in), while most European railways use metre gauge (1000 mm or 3 ft 3 3⁄8 in),
It's a bit OT but interestingly enough, Tallinn tram network is also Cape gauge.

New train in San Sebastian

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1092/dsc0695pg.jpg

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3487/dsc0702x.jpg

New train in San Sebastian

Good pictures! It is the EuskoTren Series 900 (http://www.ferropedia.es/wiki/Euskotren_Serie_900)

^^ Does it run on 1000mm gauge tracks?

As far as I know, yeah.

This part of network is the same but managed by the autonomous Basque government.

This is why appears the name of "Euskotren" (Basque railways) instead of "FEVE" (Spanish narrow wide railways).

And... it is an international line!!!!. Last station is located at Hendaye, just 300m inside France, just in front of the main SNCF main station.

This is a class 592 diesel unit, in Lorca (Spain), on a commuter service on the Murcia- Lorca line, at a rail crossing in Lorca.
Lorca suffered months ago an earthquake.
Lorca station partially collapsed, but the rail service was restarted the day after, surprisingly...

VLaqTCVhcxw

Video by tadea.

http://tll.kewego.com/t/0/0758/154x114_iLyROoafzA7L_2_kew1301081377.jpg (http://video.adif.es/video/iLyROoafzA7L.html)
Nueva línea Cercanías C-5 Sevilla-Benacazón - Adif (http://video.adif.es/video/iLyROoafzA7L.html)

^^
That´s the new commuter line in Seville, called C5.
It uses the tracks in the classic Seville-Huelva line between Seville and Benacazon.

This is a class 592 diesel unit, in Lorca (Spain), on a commuter service on the Murcia- Lorca line, at a rail crossing in Lorca.
Lorca suffered months ago an earthquake.
Lorca station partially collapsed, but the rail service was restarted the day after, surprisingly...




Thread about that earthquake
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1378105

11th March 2011,
5,5 Ritcher.


Lorca station (and part of infrastructures) were distroyed but service was closed only one day

One of the most old trains in Spains will partially dissapear to be served with a new one.

It is one train that daily starts at Barcelona and go, by the coast to Valencia, later to the interior to Alcazar de San Juan... there, a branch is separated to go to Badajoz (in the border with Portugal). The rest of the train will continue and at Linares will be separated another branch which alternative days will go to Granada or to Almeria.

Finally the train gets separated in two main branches at Cordoba. One to Sevilla, another to Malaga.


The change will be:

A double composition train, with material newer than actual to make Barcelona - Sevilla/Malaga via Valencia-Alcazar
And trains to shuttle to Badajoz and Almeria / Granada like now.



Edit.... apart of those trains, there are direct trains from Barcelona to Sevilla and to Malaga with stops in the firsts and last stations. Those trains are goes by the high speed lane. It's non stop at Madrid, saving time and runs Barcelona-Sevilla in less than 5h30min (1200 km more or less, depending of itinerary...)

In september there will be some changes in one long-distance train (one of the longest today).

Today, there is a train with several branches from Barcelona to Badajoz, Almería, Granada, Malaga and Sevilla (Almeria and Granada 3 days per week, alternative).

It will be changed by a new train Barcelona-Malaga/Sevilla using the trains were used between Madrid and Valencia before high speed line. They will travel together until Cordoba where will be separated to each city.

Apart of it, there will be new trains Alcazar-Badajoz and Linares-Almería or Granada which will shuttle with this train.

It is a train in the conventional rails, not in the high speed line. It starts at Barcelona and goes besides the coast until Valencia and later to the interior until Alcazar, just to turn south.
Stations with stop will be the same.

The new train, apart of more confort, will use one hour less than now point to point.

Between Barcelona and Tarragona to Sevilla, Cordoba and Malaga there are two daily high speed trains (four in the case of Cordoba, where is the junction) which takes half of time to do the journey.

But this train is used to shuttle with more stations and has an important number of passengers between little stations.


The train replaced will replace at the same time, later to the Irun-Salamanca which is served by the oldest long distance train in Spain.

After that replacing, the trains type "Arco" could be considered as the oldest in Spain, and there will be not too many.

The new hybrid S-730 train.
It was filmed in Vinaros, between Tarragona and Castellon, on the Barcelona-Valencia line, and was probably doing a test.
This train is a Bi-Bi-Bi, double gauge (iberian/UIC), double tension (3kV/25kV), double mode (diesel/electric).
It might operate on Alvia services to some non-electrified destinations, like Madrid-Murcia-Cartagena, Madrid-Zamora-Coruña/Vigo, or Madrid-Cordova-Algeciras.

mqoh8VC3luk

Hi
Is there any new figures about the Madrid-Valencia Line ?

Let me ask...

The new hybrid S-730 train.


Technical data of this train can be found in this presentation (http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ptferroviaria.es%2FPortals%2F0%2FPTFE%2FPTFE-Documents%2FAvril_TALGO.pdf&ei=MWBZTvi1E-SksQKho_i-DA&usg=AFQjCNGgWpwFdkXvifDrm4bfBkUSAyFsRw&sig2=c5nS7Ack_JUyL2pMFKeaFw) on page 19.

The trains have 9 instead of 11 passenger coaches, the generator car has one track and one set of Talgo wheels.
Power under diesel is 2.4 MW. Length: 186 m, empty weight 361 t.

Hi
Is there any new figures about the Madrid-Valencia Line ?

After 6 month there have been almost one million passengers (exactly 960.000 passengers, with 7.000 passengers traveling on an average week-end day). This is more than 83% of the total amount of journeys between Madrid and Valencia.
Renfe estimate that the commissioning of the high speed rail service between Madrid and Valencia attracted a high percentage of trips, which had been made before with other modes of transport: the statistic showed that before opening of the high speed line 55% traveled by air, 25% by coach and 5 % by private car.
The dates from the week-end of August 15 will be also interesting. On this long week-end several festivals took place and 30 trains run with doubled capacity. Ok, the weather was really poor on this week-end, so I don't know it the increased capacity was a success.


Source: Datos de ocupación del corredor Madrid-Valencia (http://www.vivireltren.es/2011/08/datos-de-ocupacion-del-corredor-madrid-valencia/), posted August 23.

In www.ferropedia.es you may find

- figures about the Madrid-Valencia Line (http://ferropedia.es/wiki/Tr%C3%A1ficos_corredores_Madrid_-_Comunidad_Valenciana)


- figures on other lines (http://ferropedia.es/wiki/Categor%C3%ADa:Tr%C3%A1ficos_por_corredores)

Hi
Is there any new figures about the Madrid-Valencia Line ?

Technical data of this train can be found in this presentation (http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ptferroviaria.es%2FPortals%2F0%2FPTFE%2FPTFE-Documents%2FAvril_TALGO.pdf&ei=MWBZTvi1E-SksQKho_i-DA&usg=AFQjCNGgWpwFdkXvifDrm4bfBkUSAyFsRw&sig2=c5nS7Ack_JUyL2pMFKeaFw) on page 19.

The trains have 9 instead of 11 passenger coaches, the generator car has one track and one set of Talgo wheels.
Power under diesel is 2.4 MW. Length: 186 m, empty weight 361 t.

Some additional data in www.ferropedia.es :
http://www.ferropedia.es/wiki/Renfe_Serie_730

To help people who do not speak Spanish, I write a free translation resume of those data:

I write always the result of 2010 and forecast for 2011 (made considering first 6 months data and extrapolating to all the year):


High Speed Line Madrid - Valencia

It has the stations of Madrid, Cuenca, Utiel-Requena and Valencia

2010 total corridor 1,12 million passengers
2011 total corridor 2,20 million passengers

2010 Madrid-Valencia (point to point) 728.000 pass
2011 Madrid-Valencia (point to point) at least 1,9 million pass


Trains Vs Plane in Madrid-Valencia

2010: 45,3%
2011: more than 70%


Madrid-Castellon (only High speed line to Valencia)
2 daily trains

2010. 54.000 pass
2011. 83.000 pass


Station of Requena-Utiel
Average of 48 pass/day (with four daily stops)


Madrid-Alicante (high speed line until Albacete)

2010: 1 million pass
2011: 1 million pass




As we can see, numbers have been increased where high speed is point to point (if change there is no so much difference). Specially Valencia because third city of Spain. Cuenca and Albacete have increased numbers too, but they are much smaller than Valencia.

Madrid-Valencia takes 88% trips of the corridor.

Madrid-Valencia takes 88% trips of the corridor.

This is interesting: it makes such lines more attractive to active price managment, as I bet few, if any, will use the line on a dail basis and, for the distance separating Valencia and Madrid, driving or taking a bus is not a really time wise decision.

On September the 8th, the new station serving the Jerez de la Frontera Airport will open.
That´s in the Cadiz province, in Andalusia (South).
Il will be served by Cercanías (suburban) and Media Distancia (regional trains).
The number of trains stopping at the station will be quite small for now, as the airport seems to be served only by Ryanair...
On a more historical way, the station is not new, it was formerly known as 'La Parra' and has been for many years closed to passenger service.

============================================

On September the 23th there will be a remodelation of the Madrid Cercanías Renfe lines, but we still don´t know the details. We suspect it will be the day the new Aeropuerto T4 station will open.

==========================================

A few days ago the new Vigo-Guixar station opened (in the city of Vigo, Galicia, North-West, near Portugal), it´s the old freight station upgraded for passenger trains while the old Vigo-Urzáiz station closes for the High Speed Line works... it´s located by the port, but not very far from the old one.

===========================================

Hmmm... that´s about it, I believe.
There´s come more to say, but´it´s about high speed trains.

:)

The new station Aeropuerto de Jerez on the Cadiz-Seville line has been inaugurated today, service starts tomorrow.

It will be served by Cercanías suburban trains from Cadiz to Aeropuerto de Jerez, and also by regional trains Seville-Cadiz.

It serves the Jerez de la Frontera airport, in the city of Jerez de la Frontera (famous for its Sherry).

New Vigo-Guixar temporary railway station

Click the link to see the video.

http://tll.kewego.com/t/0/0668/154x114_iLyROoaf27VA_2_kew1314706127.jpg (http://video.adif.es/video/iLyROoaf27VA.html)
Nueva estación de Vigo-Guixar - Adif (http://video.adif.es/video/iLyROoaf27VA.html)

Timelaps of construction of new railway infrastructure in Barcelona by local Evaristo, he has been shoting photos and compiling timelaps videos from this construction site for 3 years, his flickr site is updated regulary and every 3 or 4 month he posts a timelaps over the construction, this is the latest.

28649612

And more timelapses from this construction can be found here

http://vimeo.com/28649612

Flickr site

http://www.flickr.com/photos/estovadeobras/

Hello everyone

Greetings from Spain. I wanted to show you a map of the Spanish rail network for those who do not know

The map legend is in Spanish, if you have any questions, let me know pacodiazpardo@yahoo.es

Not only the network is the high-speed network, but also conventional.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftrenecicos.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F09%2F14%2Fnueva-mapa-de-infraestructuras-ferroviarias%2F


http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2217/capturadepantalla201109f.jpg



I hope you like it !

This is interesting: it makes such lines more attractive to active price managment.

Yes, we can never miss an opportunity to price gouge and bilk the customer out of more money.

Profit over people is the mantra of the neoliberal.

Yes, we can never miss an opportunity to price gouge and bilk the customer out of more money.

Profit over people is the mantra of the neoliberal.

Not necessarily. Price driscrimination allows a lot of discount fares for advanced purchase, which benefits costumers.

Are there any plan to regauge the remaining metre gauge lines in Spain to standard gauge?

When tracks are renewed ADIF uses double gauge sleepers (initially of a type allowing both standard and broad gauge but not at the same time, but has now started to lay sleepers for dual gauge tracks so as to ease gauge conversion in the future), however there are no known plans of conversion.

EDIT

Hi!

This is a bit offtopic but not too much, I've been a bit nostalgic tonight and I've remembered a song of 1997 that want to share with you.

It's by Undrop, a Spanish-Swedish group and in the videoclip (filmed in Spain) you can see some old commuter trains, rail tracks and the Atocha station.

RBb9Tn4Xqr0

Enjoy it!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2780/4275174342_4b423db69c_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/intercity203/4275174342/)
Trenes s/599 recién salidos de fábrica. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/intercity203/4275174342/) por intercity203 (http://www.flickr.com/people/intercity203), en Flickr


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4339725351_36e988f8f5_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/septemtrionis/4339725351/)
Interior de los S599 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/septemtrionis/4339725351/) por Septem Trionis (http://www.flickr.com/people/septemtrionis), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3213/3029953074_96d4e058e6_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029953074/)
S-599 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029953074/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/3029106831_4b6b413b96_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029106831/)
S-599 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029106831/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3917304854_6bbd662903_o_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/escursso/3917304854/)
New Miguel de Unamuno I (http://www.flickr.com/photos/escursso/3917304854/) por Escursso (http://www.flickr.com/people/escursso), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3143/3016769536_0c314fb3fd_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3016769536/)
S-120 Alvia (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3016769536/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/3015926517_9a5b3bf418_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3015926517/)
S-120 Alvia (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3015926517/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5107/5877647529_d9f6c2e075_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60134900@N04/5877647529/)
Alvia s.120 (7) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60134900@N04/5877647529/) por Avalia_2011 (http://www.flickr.com/people/60134900@N04), en Flickr

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3032/3012852748_15e036b752_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3012852748/)
AVE S-102 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3012852748/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/5056138529_451fa4ecde_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferran_arjona/5056138529/)
AVE S112 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferran_arjona/5056138529/) por Ferran Arjona (http://www.flickr.com/people/ferran_arjona), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3068/3012733460_becf73a5fe_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3012733460/)
AVE S-102 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3012733460/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3213/3012744084_507ecd657a_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3012744084/)
AVE S-102 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3012744084/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3278/3012728364_266fa0a74f_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3012728364/)
AVE S-102 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3012728364/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/4959947122_4bc74caa1e_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/escursso/4959947122/)
Patitos. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/escursso/4959947122/) por Escursso (http://www.flickr.com/people/escursso), en Flickr


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2164/2261627972_5440f739f3_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jon-ntx/2261627972/)
[RENFE ALVIA] S-130 (Talgo "Patito") (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jon-ntx/2261627972/) por jon.ntx (http://www.flickr.com/people/jon-ntx), en Flickr


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4024/4260235156_a97c40e814_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jiesnarr/4260235156/)
Alvia s-130 Irún-Madrid Chamartín saliendo del Puerto de Otzaurte, entre Guipúzcoa y Navarra (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jiesnarr/4260235156/) por jiesnarr (http://www.flickr.com/people/jiesnarr), en Flickr


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2642/4018547043_ea5b60727e_o_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidfs90/4018547043/)
mucho morro (II) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidfs90/4018547043/) por fc_urola (http://www.flickr.com/people/davidfs90), en Flickr

vaya fotazas castor :applause:

pon mas cuando puedas

vaya fotazas castor :applause:

pon mas cuando puedas

Si, hay que agradecer su calidad a sus autores. :)



http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1095/4602282728_559477fe92_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ricote/4602282728/)
Renfe Regional (Media Distancia) CAF-S121 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ricote/4602282728/) por Ricardo Ricote Rodríguez (http://www.flickr.com/people/ricote), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3213/3017229710_5c0b9ed158_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3017229710/)
S-121 Avant (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3017229710/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/3016463363_ff4bf95b07_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3016463363/)
S-121 Avant (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3016463363/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3586/4602305690_3d1e51f98c_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ricote/4602305690/)
Renfe Regional (Media Distancia) CAF-S121 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ricote/4602305690/) por Ricardo Ricote Rodríguez (http://www.flickr.com/people/ricote), en Flickr

CAF products are usually far superior to Talgo's ones: they have seats near windows...

^^

It is possible :)

trainset
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/3029083715_54414bb377_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029083715/)
S-598 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029083715/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3138/3029088625_8f15189820_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029088625/)
S-598 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029088625/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3160/3029964112_87dffe62f0_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029964112/)
S-598 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029964112/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3045/3029092621_6821c1b8a2_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029092621/)
S-598 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029092621/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr

CAF products are usually far superior to Talgo's ones: they have seats near windows...

This is a secondary aspect of a "good" train, IMO. Not an essential thing.

^^ if you are too stupid to accept that some people may feel claustrophobic feeling the movement but without seeing something passing by is not my fault

From my point of view... it is a design problem and should be very easy to improve in the design task of the project (not later).

It is so easy that one seat (in fact two seats) = one screen.

A lot of trains and buses are designed independently inside and outside and you can have a seat with no screen... or a little one (the screen is in the middle of two seats).

Very easy solution when design. Impossible to improve later.

CAF products are usually far superior to Talgo's ones: they have seats near windows...

CAF makes good metro trains, Talgo makes goog trains.

CAF is more focused on metro and tram, but otherwise they made any kind of train...

type of train... each one has its preferences.

The recent line C5 of the commuter train service in Seville.

Here is a Civia S-465 EMU stopping at the Camas station, bound for Benacazon:

xaPV_XY2RzI

Here another one entering Benacazon station, end of the C5 line.

9eAfrHmVqgo

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3153/3029911808_2cf0709241_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029911808/)
S-449 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029911808/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3042/3029050371_7c0f8997d4_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029050371/)
S-449 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029050371/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3011/3029071471_ceb4da99ba_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029071471/)
S-449 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029071471/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr


http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3205/3029058669_d42d06cc6a_b_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029058669/)
S-449 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/grouchomax/3029058669/) por grouchomax (http://www.flickr.com/people/grouchomax), en Flickr

On the third photo... wtf is "zumbador hombre muerto" (translation: dead man buzzer)?

On the third photo... wtf is "zumbador hombre muerto" (translation: dead man buzzer)?

Death man button.

A common device in trains that require the driver to perform a set (usually 2 or 3) of actions (pushing a button, releasing a spring) that guarantees a driver is in the cabin in full awareness, throwing automatic braking otherwise. It allows single-man cabin operations.

^^ I think it´s the buzzer for the automatic brake system in case the driver doesn´t operate the controls for a longer period of time..

Maybe, but I think is the alarm for advise the conductor that he must pulse the "dead man" button. If the conductor don´t pulse this button the automatic brake system will stop the train.

Death man button.
It doesn't refer to the button, it refers to the speaker were the alarm of the "Dead man system" sounds.

The dead man button is the blue one near the main screen.

This is a curious link I am posting.

This is MetroValencia, the Valencia, er... 'metro' system.
It´s called a metro, but its branches outside Valencia city are actually a commuter rail classic network with frequent rail crossings and absolutely classic infrastructure. Besides, large parts of the lines are not even double-tracked!

Here you have two 3900 EMUs crossing at Almassera station, on the single-track sector, you can as well spot THREE rail crossings -not to talk about the ones to cross from one platform to the other!

This is the Rafelbunyol branch of line 3.

MetroValencia is ruled by FGV, the public Valencian Regional Government rail company.

Oh, and it´s narrow gauge, metric.

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Same line, this time with 4300 EMUs.
Locations: between Alboraya and Almassera.

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Now we go to line 1, on the Paterna/Lliria branch.
This is Les Carolines-Fira station, the way it used to be, classic rail, double-track, and a 4300 EMU. This station is now underground:

Ck_hvapteIk

^^ ^^ there's a woman crossing the rails! :ohno:

the system is similar to métro line 1 of Lausanne, the differences being the lenght of the network, the fact that it runs only in the urban area inside the city, and that we don't use full trains in here but a sort of train-tram, but it's also a single-line with train crossing at most stations with grade-crossings with some streets (albeit few), and still it is also considered as a métro, although it was called TSOL (tramway du sud-ouest lausannois) until the second métro line was opened (which do is a full métro)... this pretty well exemplies how hard it is to define concepts, one existing network has gone from being considered a tramway to a métro without any change in the meanwhile, although in this case it was a matter of just wanting to simplify the network.

Grade-separation is often considered as the requisite to be considered a métro, but then again what happens with a suburban rail network without grade crossings? Is it also a métro?

Lenght? No way, the lenght of the suburban rail network of Lausanne might be smaller than the métro lines of some huge cities around the world, so that very much depends on the city size.

Frequencies? Yes, but how do you establish the limit? A maximum of 10 min? why not 9 or 11?

and so on and so forth...

so basically, IMHO your example clearly is not a metro due to the grade crossings, but... if that doesn't happen inside the urban area of the main central city, maybe until the trains quit that urban area it can be considered a métro, why not, in most cases the suburban trains would be considered suburban underground trains that cross the city, but why not doing the reverse naming? there's no rule against it

And here are some pics of the 'new' extension of line 5 of the same network.
It´s still in works, and will run from the current station Rosas to Riba-roja del Turia, fllowing the old platform of a former Cercanias Renfe line wich was in iberian gauge, and subsequently is being regauged to metric.

Sadly works on this line have been temporarily suspended due to the crisis.

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First station after Rosas will be La Cova:

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Then next stop will be La Presa:

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Then next stop will be Masia de Traver:

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And then the last stop will be Riba-roja del Turia:

O-7sMNSS05M

so basically, IMHO your example clearly is not a metro due to the grade crossings, but... if that doesn't happen inside the urban area of the main central city, maybe until the trains quit that urban area it can be considered a métro, why not, in most cases the suburban trains would be considered suburban underground trains that cross the city, but why not doing the reverse naming? there's no rule against it

I've used metrovalencia in Valencia and I think that there it could be considered as metro. When the trains are going to leave the city they "branch" and go to different places (so the frequency is higher in the city).

Outside the city it is more alike a commuter network... with lower freqs. overground, etc...

An example of the urban part of metrovalencia:
_VSlGwjZ4Uk

New railway station Logroño





http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18886456/tren/est11.jpg


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18886456/tren/est13.jpg


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18886456/tren/est14.jpg


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18886456/tren/est16.jpg


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=808206&page=69

Railways evolution in Spain during the last 50 years..

nCCZ5Pw3Bcg&feature=youtu.be&a

Excellent!!!!!

This is a curious link I am posting.

This is MetroValencia, the Valencia, er... 'metro' system.
It´s called a metro, but its branches outside Valencia city are actually a commuter rail classic network with frequent rail crossings and absolutely classic infrastructure. Besides, large parts of the lines are not even double-tracked!

Here you have two 3900 EMUs crossing at Almassera station, on the single-track sector, you can as well spot THREE rail crossings -not to talk about the ones to cross from one platform to the other!

This is the Rafelbunyol branch of line 3.

MetroValencia is ruled by FGV, the public Valencian Regional Government rail company.

Oh, and it´s narrow gauge, metric.



This was one of the lines that were once served by SNCV type S trams
that were sold second-hand by Belgium to Spain. Sold in 1972, used till
1989. Some pictures of those trams in Belgium and Spain on this site :
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=86462542

great video!!

Nuevo station in Logroño is very impressive and modern like always in España :cheers: ¡¡ Feliz Navidad !!:)

^^ "Nuevo" means "new", it's not the name of the station.

Nuevo station in Logroño is very impressive and modern like always in España :cheers: ¡¡ Feliz Navidad !!:)



I think that one important thing about it is that it is very modern and comfortable for traffic (it's underground), passengers and railway, as well as it is made according to traffic that will be in the future.

No great stations with no use. Just nice and modern stations where needed

thanks for the video mare nostrvm!!

Snow in Northern Spain 1990:

In this youtube you can watch the effects of a snow storm in 1990, this is in the Leon-Oviedo-Gijon line, between the stations Busdongo and Villamanin, in the Pajares Pass.

There was an avalanche, the snow got to 7 meters in some places. :naughty:

ee48GdAaZbA

^^thanks

ETCS Level 1 goes live in Madrid

02 March 2012

SPAIN: The Ministry of Development announced on March 1 that ETCS Level 1 signalling had been brought into use on RENFE suburban route C4 in Madrid, running from Parla in the south via Atocha, Sol and Chamartín to Colmenar Viejo north of the capital. According to the ministry, this is the first application of ETCS on a suburban network in Europe.

Work to equip 190 km of track, including the branch to Alcobendas-San Sebastián de los Reyes, has been undertaken by the ministry at a cost of over €30m. RENFE has spent €23m to install onboard equipment on 112 Civia EMUs.

The number of trains operating under ETCS on route C4 is to be increased gradually as staff training is completed. The adoption of Level 2 is also planned for the Madrid suburban network with the aim of increasing capacity.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/etcs-level-1-goes-live-in-madrid.html

Goya station:

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There is another Goya Station in Madrid's Metro

aueOWI4P2aA

http://www.railwaygazette.com/nc/news/single-view/view/etcs-level-1-goes-live-in-madrid.html

Wouldn't it be cheaper to install ETCS L2 in the first place?

^^
the two levels are compatible and share facilities

^^
the two levels are compatible and share facilities

I am aware of that fact, but L2 wouldn't need extra signals.

In every railway running ETCS in Spain the Level 1 was introduced before the Level 2. I don't know the reasons but anyway in the case of that railway, signals already exist.

20 years of high speed in Spain


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Hello, I am planning vacations in Spain and I was wondering if anyone here has tips for getting discounts. Searching for the tickets I see that there are the web and Estrela discounts, but when actually going to buy a ticket I see that those discounts appear to be actually quite rate, despite the fact that I am buying 1 month in advance, and there are more discounts for the business class then for the Tourist class. Also for chaper medium distance trains like MD I couldn't see any discounts. I see that a good discount is available for the "Mesa" ticket for 4 persons, but unfortunately we will be mostly travelling in 2 or max 3 persons.

So summing up, anyone has tips or experience how to get cheaper tickets in Spain? =)

^^ In Spain, like in Italy, the majority of discount tickets are gone well before 1 month on peak season. The best window will be probably 90-60 days before departure, if nothing seriously changed on Renfe's yield management system which, I must say, is one of the most sophisticated together with the one of Trenitalia.

Hello, I am planning vacations in Spain and I was wondering if anyone here has tips for getting discounts. Searching for the tickets I see that there are the web and Estrela discounts, but when actually going to buy a ticket I see that those discounts appear to be actually quite rate, despite the fact that I am buying 1 month in advance, and there are more discounts for the business class then for the Tourist class. Also for chaper medium distance trains like MD I couldn't see any discounts. I see that a good discount is available for the "Mesa" ticket for 4 persons, but unfortunately we will be mostly travelling in 2 or max 3 persons.

So summing up, anyone has tips or experience how to get cheaper tickets in Spain? =)


Normally tickets are available only two months in advance. They have started to sell tickets four months in advance Madrid-Zaragoza-Barcelona but for other trains, two months only.

They have different discounts but mainly Web fare = 60% discount and "Estrella fare" = 40% discount. At any time, 25% discount if you have an international boarding pass for a plane and you make a return trip, or 20% for a return ticket at any case.

They put a certain number of tickets for those discounts. It is possible that for a train, all cheapest tickets are gone but there are still discounts in high classes, so maybe a better discount in first class can be have a similar price than a tourist general fare or similar.

In Spanish trains, at bussiness and First class you have the meal included in the ticket as well as other facilities in most of trains.

Take the coach. Seriously, it normally is more economic and on a lot of connections (well, Madrid-Barcelona isn't one of those, obviously) faster, too.
The price system of RENFE doesn't follow any rules at all, quite often fares seem to be chosen randomly to the customer. Taking the coach you're usually better off, although it makes sense to book in advantage during peak season and on popular routes, too.
For longer distances, no-frills airlines (Ryanair, Easyjet, Vueling) could make sense, too

Take the coach. Seriously, it normally is more economic and on a lot of connections (well, Madrid-Barcelona isn't one of those, obviously) faster, too.
The price system of RENFE doesn't follow any rules at all, quite often fares seem to be chosen randomly to the customer. Taking the coach you're usually better off, although it makes sense to book in advantage during peak season and on popular routes, too.
For longer distances, no-frills airlines (Ryanair, Easyjet, Vueling) could make sense, too

Yes, I am planing with a lot of care so I know that in most of my trips in Spain taking a bus will be a better solution, but that's the part that sucks. I would prefer traveling by rail but I find the regional rail in Spain chaotic enough that I just can't!

All over Europe I don't remember ever having so much trouble using rail for my trips. Even in my trip to Hungary/Romania I had no trouble at all doing 100% of the trip, from Poland to Lake Balaton, to Budapest, to Alba Julia in Romenia and other places in Romania and back. All had decent train connections many times a day which had nice connections with each other. And it was quite cheap.

In Germany similarly it is excellent to use the rail services. DBahn has a very regular discounts system so I already have a CityNightLine cheap ticket to make Basel->Dresden sleeping as part of my way back to Poland. Also there are very nice discount "Landeskarte" tickets for using regional rail in Germany, BahnKard, etc, etc.

In Portugal too, except for some recently closed lines in the north which I would like to use and for Fatima, everything could be done by rail with many options per day on the routes and fair prices.

But in Spain I am shocked to see that the regional rail lines are either stupidly planned or just plainly a robbery of so expensive. My trips will be like this:

Malaga->Granada
Granada->Cordoba
Cordoba->Sevilla
Sevilla->Lagos (south of Portugal)

Malaga->Granada and Granada->Cordoba share the same problem of horrible conections. Consider these maps:

http://www.viajaramadrid.org/img_trenmediadistanciaenmadrid/mapa%20andalucia.jpg

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3485/16andalucia.jpg

The brown line from Granada to Sevilla does not stop in "Fuente de Piedra" despite the map indicating so. So it cannot be used at all to go from Granada to Cordoba! Similarly the line Malaga-Sevilla only stops in Pedrera after Bobadilla. So you have to make a large negative trip to reach Granada, like this: Malaga->Pedrera->Granada which wastes time and increases costs.

Granada->Cordoba at least has 2 times a day a direct train, but it costs 35 euros, a huge amount for mere 180km! The bus costs 13 euros. In Poland a train trip of 180km does not cost more then 9 euros. And I want to go in the afternoon, but their promotional ticket is available only in the morning in this route o.O For going with cheaper trains there is completely no way at all. The only possible way is Granada->Bobadilla->Cordoba, but it has 5 minutes between changing trains, so if my first train is 5 minutes late and I miss the second one I will be in a tiny town with no way to get to my destination...

Cordoba->Sevilla is very fast and for a fair price so no complains here. This part I can do by rail at least.

Sevilla->south of Portugal. Well, this is doesn't even exist! I hope that they will some day finish up this gap because it is really annoying that there is no rail connection between Huelva and "Vila Real de Santo Antonio" in Portugal =(

Malaga-Granada can be done with a change of train at Bobadilla. There it arrive five directions of normal trains (not high speed ones, which have a different station).

As an example, you can leave Malaga in the morning (9:42) or evening (18:30) and waiting no more than one hour at Bobadilla to continue through Granada.

But what it is really is that "transversal" relations in Spain are not good... and they assure only "point to point" connections.

From any corner of Andalucia will be easier to go to Madrid than to other corner of Andalucia.

Andalucia-Murcia has the railway close since the 80s

Andalucia-Extremadura has only one train per day

Andalucia-Madrid has one train per hour Sevilla-Madrid, similar with Malaga-Madrid and some Granada-Madrid, Algeciras-Madrid, Cadiz-Madrid and Huelva-Madrid, as well as two daily Malaga-Barcelona and Sevilla-Barcelona entirely by the high speed rail with non-stop at Madrid.

So it is easier to go to Madrid from those cities than between them.
Additional, they operate an "Avant" train Malaga-Cordoba-Sevilla that runs 250 in the high speed line but with regional fares (more expensive than regional ones but cheaper than high speed).

Lines Madrid-Cordoba-Sevilla and Cordoba-Malaga are entirely high speed (different gauge). To go with those trains (Alvia) to Algeciras, Malaga, Huelva, Cadiz, Granada... they have to change gauge at Bobadilla, Sevilla, etc... and continuing by the normal rail.

Bobadilla is one of the must-sees of Andalusia. :lol: Indeed, the regional services in that part of Andalusia are horrible (I had to wait there for 2 hours or so. All the station has to offer is a soft drink vending machine).

Take the bus from Málaga to Granada to Cordoba! It's not worth the pain to take the train there, believe me. Even if you have to wait "only" one hour in Bobadilla, the trains are painfully slow, too. It doesn't pay off for the better comfort the train has to offer in comparision to the coach.
Cordoba-Sevilla isn't that much of a problem by train (even the medium distance trains (which take about two hours if I remember correctly) are worth to be considered, not only AVE). I don't know about Sevilla-Lagos, but apparently the coach is teh preferred option there, too.

Regarding Portugal: The main corridor (Lisbon-Porto) indeed is well served, it doesn't take longer than by coach. However, lots of coaches travel via Fatima (which I wouln't recommend visiting after having seen it myself. It's rather dull and very weird (I'm Catholic myself, by the way). I'd rather go to Tomar, Batalha or Alcobaca as these places are worth being visited from a historical and artistic point of view. Fatima is a dull 50ies historicism church.

As an example, you can leave Malaga in the morning (9:42) or evening (18:30) and waiting no more than one hour at Bobadilla to continue through Granada.


On hour is to long a wait. I returned from Paris to Bern last night, and my transfer in Basel was 3 minutes. That's the kind of coordination Swiss people are used too.


Andalucia-Madrid has one train per hour Sevilla-Madrid, similar with Malaga-Madrid and some Granada-Madrid, Algeciras-Madrid, Cadiz-Madrid and Huelva-Madrid, as well as two daily Malaga-Barcelona and Sevilla-Barcelona entirely by the high speed rail with non-stop at Madrid.


And this is where RENFE fails... They run very nice trains, but they don't run a railway network.

They run a train every hour from Sevilla to Madrid, and frequent trains from Cadiz to Sevilla, but this does not yield many useful connections as the timetables are not coordinated. They make up for that by offering a few direct trains Cadiz - Madrid that are hardly faster than the fastest possible connection involving a change in Sevilla. However, there are also two Cadiz - Sevilla trains that arrive in Sevilla three minutes after the AVE to Madrid has left...
If they coordinated the times of the Cadiz - Sevilla trains better with the Sevilla - Madrid trains they could offer 4:20 trip times on Cadiz - Madrid almost every hour.

By coordinating the services on the different lines the value of you service increases dramatically, without the railway incurring that much in extra costs. That is something even SNCF now understands. When will RENFE?

By coordinating the services on the different lines the value of you service increases dramatically, without the railway incurring that much in extra costs. That is something even SNCF now understands. When will RENFE?



It can be the thread most written in the Spanish forum... so as you can think, no forumers have answer to that but too many questions and proposals.

In my city, at least, they have coordinated two different services. There is a little commuter train that shuttles six stations. And there are several regional trains, between 3 to 6 per line. Those trains stops in several stations within the city.

Since this month they allow to take those trains with a commuter ticket. That means that, with the same number of trains they give more frequencies for commuter service. So it is easier to take it (sometimes one train per hour, some times every 15 minutes) and people is starting to take it.

More services to passengers, more passengers on trains.


At least it is a change...

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3485/16andalucia.jpg

These are the old lines

BREAKING NEWS!!!!

Feve, the state-owned railway company that runs the biggest metric-gauge railway network in Europe, that is, in Northern Spain (the Atlantic coast), plus a small commuter line in Cartagena, becomes a part of Renfe.

Feve becomes a part of Renfe.

Keep an eye on that, you trainspotters, something could happen.
Just in case, I recommend any of you to get to travel to these lines, especially the marvellous Bilbao to Leon via Cistierna route, and the Atlantic coastal line from Bilbao to Ferrol.

^^ That shouldn't be allowed. It creates a monopoly in the area.

There is a monopoly at all. This is, a trip A to B can be run only on a line and it doesn't matter the name of the company.

The only difference is that there were difference rails and journeys, not anything else.

In the surroundings of Bilbao, San Sebastian, Valencia, Alicante, Oviedo and Barcelona there are lines of other companies rather than RENFE and there are no concurrence. If you want to go A to X, you may take RENFE and no other option. If you want to go A to Y, the other company, and RENFE serves nothing there.


At Spain there is a little concurrence in freight (it is free concurrence but few services of other companies different than Renfe). We will have to wait for concurrence on passengers.

^^ That shouldn't be allowed. It creates a monopoly in the area.

It's already a monopoly as both companies (FEVE and Renfe operadora) are owned by the central government.

If 437.001 is right, the government is just merging them probably to save money.

FEVE stands for FErrocarriles de Vía Estrecha (Narrow Gauge Railways) and it opperates all the State owned narrow gauge railways (usually metric gauge). While Renfe operates the standard and iberian gauge railways.

There are no private passenger rail services in Spain yet (at least not major ones). There are some other operators owned by autonomic governments like FGC or FGV that coexist with Renfe.

But those other operators drive on specific lines. In the case of FGC and FGV, narrow gauge for example. This is, suburbs of Barcelona and Valencia... if Spanish gauge only Renfe, if narrow gauge, only FGC or FGV.

No concurrence at all

^^ That shouldn't be allowed. It creates a monopoly in the area.

Everytime you move your fingers to try and post something here on SSC, bread goes more expensive and God murders three kittens...

You deserve that someone pats you on the back, your posts show an incredible knowledge of how railway works... well, no they don´t.

It's already a monopoly as both companies (FEVE and Renfe operadora) are owned by the central government.

If 437.001 is right, the government is just merging them probably to save money.

I am right, it has been confirmed by the Government and by our inner sources in Renfe. And yes they´re merging them to save money... and to finish something odd that has lasted since the creation of the national Spanish railways in 1941: the existence of two state-owned railway companies, one for the broad gauge and another for the narrow gauge.

FEVE stands for FErrocarriles de Vía Estrecha (Narrow Gauge Railways) and it opperates all the State owned narrow gauge railways (usually metric gauge).

Nowadays only metric gauge.
In the past though, it has operated lines which had even narrower gauges, but also standard gauge.

While Renfe operates the standard and iberian gauge railways.

Well, not completely true either, Renfe has operated since its creation a metric gauge line in suburban Madrid, and still does.

There are no private passenger rail services in Spain yet (at least not major ones).

There aren´t any yet.

There are some other operators owned by autonomic governments like FGC or FGV that coexist with Renfe.

Coexistence is not the exact word as they don´t operate the same network, with only one exception in the case of a particular freight train in suburban Barcelona.

The non-Renfe-nor-Feve regional companies are:

-FGC: commuter trains plus some freight, and two rack railways and some cable cars in suburban Barcelona (one of the rack railways is actually in the Pyrenees, though you get there by commuter train).

-FGV: commuter half-metro-like trains, plus a couple tramway lines in suburban Valencia, plus a tram-train network in Alicante and the Costa Blanca.

-Euskotren: commuter trains in the Basque Country, reaching Hendaye in the French side of the Basque Country. Plus the tramways in Bilbao and Vitoria and a cable car. And some freight too.

-SFM: commuter trains in Majorca.

^^ That shouldn't be allowed. It creates a monopoly in the area.



There is a mandatory regulation by EU that will apply to free concurrence... but at least several years to see a new operator at Spain for passenger (I think there are seven for freight).

The ADIF web page is prepared to indicate the name of the operator of every train. Obviously, today all of them are Renfe... but at least they are ready for the change.

International trains Portugal to Spain are served by Renfe and CP together.
International trains Spain to Italy, Switzerland and France are served by a company managed by several companies.

International trains Portugal to Spain are served by Renfe and CP together.

That is true for the Madrid-Lisboa Trenhotel which is jointly operated by CP and RENFE. They both split costs and revenues.

The Sud Express is a different thing. It is CP's in full. CP leases the train and contracts the traction in Spain, operational and commercial support with RENFE. CP supports all costs and keeps the entire revenue, paying RENFE for the services it provides.


International trains Spain to Italy, Switzerland and France are served by a company managed by several companies.

Elipsos? Not several companies. It's 50/50 RENFE and SNCF.

Elipsos? Not several companies. It's 50/50 RENFE and SNCF.


Thrue!!, and they pay Italian and Swiss network because its use.

There are a daily Madrid-Paris, Barcelona-Paris and a three times per week Barcelona-Zurich/Milano. They go together until Lyon and they separate both branches.

One day they make a mistake and branch to Zurich went to Milano and upside down. They took notice of the mistake several hours later. As far as I know, branch to Zurich stopped and run back to Lyon to get the Zurich direction but the Milano branch had run far away and fastest way was by S.Bernardo tunel.