New HSL in Spain

[bule]

Talgo 200 Madrid-Málaga.using the new truck Cordoba-Málaga arriving at the new Puente Genil Station
http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/7361/dsc02807qz1.jpg
http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/6185/dsc02809ma0.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7264/dsc02773hz2.jpg
http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/7227/dsc02801vo5.jpg
http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/8521/dsc02768ll0.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4017/dsc02776wl6.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9567/dsc02779dn0.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6232/dsc02781bg3.jpg
The new truck start at this point of the HSL Madrid-Sevilla
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7978/dsc02075jh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/8430/dsc02077vq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The VII and XXI century toghether
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9615/dsc02082hc7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1369/dsc02091kz8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

New Station Antequera-Sta.Ana.HSL Cordoba-Málaga
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5854/p10303711xu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1738/dsc02818rc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[greg_christine]

Congratulations to Spain on the development of the high-speed rail network. According to a recent article in Technology Review, "Spain is rapidly expanding its high-speed rail service, becoming one of most connected countries in the world." The article can be found at:

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/index.aspx

The network that is being built is quite remarkable:

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/spainmap/images/Spain_trainmap.gif

[CharlieP]

Again, this is off-topic for Subways and Urban Transport - moderators, please can we have a Railways subforum? There are easily enough threads to make it viable...

[slawek15]

How fast must the train run to be considered a High Speed Train in Spain? >200 km/h? But anyway, Spain's HSL network (existing & under const./planned) is remarkable

[Skylandman]

updated map of the spanish HST network in December 2006

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/AVE-Diciembre2006.png/800px-AVE-Diciembre2006.png

Green lines : on service
Yellow lines: U/C
Red lines: planned

[Depredator]

How fast must the train run to be considered a High Speed Train in Spain? >200 km/h? But anyway, Spain's HSL network (existing & under const./planned) is remarkable

220 km/h. The actual AVE (Alta Velocidad Española - Spanish High Speed) speed is 280 km/h.

In 2008 the speed will be 350 km/h with ERTMS level 2.

[Coccodrillo]

^^ this map isn't correct. Or, at least, it would be wondered if the red lines will be rebuilt as hi-speed ones. Probably it shows simply the lines designed to be upgraded to a higher level than today (with things such electification, new signal system, conversion to standard gauge, maybe the rising of speed limits of a few km/h), bus surely not to HSLs.

An example: the line Catalayud-Soria, between Madrid and Zaragoza. Soria has only 40.000 inhabitants, do you think really that an HSL will reach it? It's big enough to make a railway useful, but a 350 km/h one surely not.

Here you can find a map of the actual network to compare with:

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_iberian-peninsula.php

(existing HSL are electrified with 25 kV 50 Hz AC, so here they are drawn in dark blue)

[greg_christine]

The following are some images from the Technology Revew article on the Spanish high-speed rail network < http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/index.aspx >:

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow_B.gif
In addition to innovating High Speed trains, CAF is an industry leader in the technological advancement of commuter trains like CIVIA (pictured), that uses COSMOS, an integrated control and command system.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow1.gif
By 2020, Spain plans to have 10,000 km of high speed rail completed, shooting the country up to become one of the top in the world in terms of total high speed rail on the ground.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow2.gif
The first high speed line between Madrid and Seville, completed in 1992, reduced travel time from six hours to two hours and twenty minutes.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow3.gif
According to Spanish government officials, rail provides the best means to increase economic development in outlying areas of the country while decreasing the use of fossil fuel and resulting greenhouse gas emissions.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow4.gif
Spanish construction companies, with years of experience designing and building the necessary infrastructure for rail, are now taking their expertise overseas in countries such as the UK, Mexico, and China.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow5.gif
Spanish companies have developed a gauge-changing mechanism that realigns wheels on tracks of different widths (for instance, at the border between countries). Thus, a change that in the past took up to an hour today takes only about four seconds.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow6.gif
Spanish companies have developed tilting technologies, helping trains navigate curves in the line with greater speed, comfort and safety.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow7.gif
The new high speed line between Madrid and Barcelona will cut travel time from six and a half hours down to two and a half.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow8.gif
Tunnels are crucial in Spain, the second most mountainous country in Europe. Spain is currently building one of the longest rail tunnels in the world through the mountains north of Madrid.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow9.gif
Advances and standardization of signaling technology allow trains to run at higher speeds and cross international borders without changing equipment.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow10.gif
The new Spanish control system automates the transmission of all data relevant to the movement of the trains and immediately notifies everyone involved, from operators in control center and in stations along the lines, to passengers waiting for trains to arrive and depart.

[sweek]

It's becoming such an impressive system. What are the costs of the system? Who's been paying for this? The government? Private companies? The EU?

I absolutely hate the noses of these trains though. :D But it's seriously developing at an amazing speed.

[frozen]

^^ this map isn't correct. Or, at least, it would be wondered if the red lines will be rebuilt as hi-speed ones. Probably it shows simply the lines designed to be upgraded to a higher level than today (with things such electification, new signal system, conversion to standard gauge, maybe the rising of speed limits of a few km/h), bus surely not to HSLs.

An example: the line Catalayud-Soria, between Madrid and Zaragoza. Soria has only 40.000 inhabitants, do you think really that an HSL will reach it? It's big enough to make a railway useful, but a 350 km/h one surely not.

Here you can find a map of the actual network to compare with:

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_iberian-peninsula.php

(existing HSL are electrified with 25 kV 50 Hz AC, so here they are drawn in dark blue)

I think the both most important politic parties are awared about the importance of spreading the high speed railway, and the goverment is betting for that. So im sure about it.

[Stifler]

^^ this map isn't correct. Or, at least, it would be wondered if the red lines will be rebuilt as hi-speed ones. Probably it shows simply the lines designed to be upgraded to a higher level than today (with things such electification, new signal system, conversion to standard gauge, maybe the rising of speed limits of a few km/h), bus surely not to HSLs.

An example: the line Catalayud-Soria, between Madrid and Zaragoza. Soria has only 40.000 inhabitants, do you think really that an HSL will reach it? It's big enough to make a railway useful, but a 350 km/h one surely not.
This map is correct, as it is included in PEIT (Strategic Infrastructures and Transport Plan). You can check it here (http://www.fomento.es/MFOM/LANG_EN/_ESPECIALES/PORTUFUTUROHOY/PEIT/) in English or Spanish.

All the lines "planned" must be built in 2020, although their speed won't be the same (Calatayud-Soria would be over 200 km/h but of course it's no necessary a 300km/h-line like in Madrid-Barcelona for example).

[Coccodrillo]

200 km/h are not really "high speed", even if they could be done for some streches over medium-importance lines (Palencia-Santander). As I can see on Trainspotting-Bukkes, Sevilla-Cadiz andSevilla-Granada lines are being double-tracked, this is a good example and (in my huble opinion) could and should be done, but I don't call it "hisgh-speed line".

There is really the need of a 200 km/h railway between Galicia, Asturias and Santander? Between Zaragoza, Teruel and Valencia? Or between Catalayud and Soria?

I think that the priority is the conversion of the existing lines to standard gauge. Maybe this could be done in the same time with the improvements (other than electrification, this could be done double-tracking the line with small diversions).

New 300 km/h lines could be useful between Madrid and Galicia, Valladolid and Irun/hendaye and France, Madrid and Lisboa, maybe to Murcia.

[Stifler]

200 km/h are not really "high speed", even if they could be done for some streches over medium-importance lines (Palencia-Santander).

There is really the need of a 200 km/h railway between Galicia, Asturias and Santander? Between Zaragoza, Teruel and Valencia? Or between Catalayud and Soria?

I think that the priority is the conversion of the existing lines to standard gauge. Maybe this could be done in the same time with the improvements (other than electrification, this could be done double-tracking the line with small diversions).
Well, it's a semantic issue but IMO 200km/h can be considered HS.

The "Cantabric AVE" (Galicia-Asturias-Cantabria-País Vasco) is a promise of the Prime Minister, as well as other not-prioritary lines. I live in Asturias and the current line is exasperating.

Now people think all the lines will be done by 2020, but if in the future the Spanish economy don't keep growing so fast some planned lines could be delayed. HS Train is the mayor bet of the goverment in terms of infraestructure.

[frozen]

one of the problems of Spain is its altittude respect to sea level. It's the second country in Europe (first is switzeland) in altittude average (Madrid is 700m over the sea level, and Avila or Soria are over 1200m.

[Coccodrillo]

The "Cantabric AVE" (Galicia-Asturias-Cantabria-País Vasco) is a promise of the Prime Minister, as well as other not-prioritary lines. I live in Asturias and the current line is exasperating.

This summer I've travelled all the FEVE network, its beautiful :) but really slow :ohno:

I remember that between León and Bilbao there is only one train per day, that takes 7 hours to do the trip. The other lines are similar.

[frozen]

This summer I've travelled all the FEVE network, its beautiful :) but really slow :ohno:

I remember that between León and Bilbao there is only one train per day, that takes 7 hours to do the trip. The other lines are similar.

yep, it's awful. Only if you have time enough and want enjoying your travel, FEVE is a good option. But it goes so slowly......

[Bitxofo]

In European Union, high speed is, at least, an average of 200kph-250kph.
:yes:
About top speed, we can find 250kph, 280kph, 300kph, 320kph and 350kph in Spain next year.
:wink2:

[Chilenofuturista]

In European Union, high speed is, at least, an average of 200kph-250kph.
:yes:
About top speed, we can find 250kph, 280kph, 300kph, 320kph and 350kph in Spain next year.
:wink2:

:master:

It's nice to know that Spain is always moving forwards. :yes:

Saludos!

[bule]

These are the diferent models of HST Running in Spain.
Siemens ICE-350.S-103 Velaro
http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/7303/cimg9766di2qm1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Talgo-350.S-102 Pato (foto SanLucar Playa)
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8130/mzccamp48nh1ra6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Alstom S-101 (foto Alfonso Gascón Martin)
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4041/euromed1vlcgx8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
CAF.S-120.Alvia (foto Alberto Peña)
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1856/apzalv1oh6.jpg
Talgo S-130
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9625/tppati02wv1.jpg
Alstom-Caf S-104
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/9546/104005os2.jpg

[FOLK]

tHANKS:)

[Bitxofo]

These are the diferent models of HST Running in Spain.
Siemens ICE-350.S-103 Velaro
http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/7303/cimg9766di2qm1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Talgo-350.S-102 Pato (foto SanLucar Playa)
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8130/mzccamp48nh1ra6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Alstom S-101 (foto Alfonso Gascón Martin)
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/4041/euromed1vlcgx8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
CAF.S-120.Alvia (foto Alberto Peña)
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/1856/apzalv1oh6.jpg
Talgo S-130
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9625/tppati02wv1.jpg
Alstom-Caf S-104
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/9546/104005os2.jpg

Great trains!
:okay:
Very fast and very nice!!
:happy:
Thanks for the photos!
:wink2:

[primastro]

But ther is a thing I am very worried about. HST are showing up everywhere in spain and that is a great thing. Nevertheless, conventional railways are often being totally abandonned. it shouldn't happen, because HST only call for the cities, and conventional raylways call for the towns and villages.

[SkyLerm]

I love this kind of threads, Spain is really developing, that's great news guys :okay:

[Napo]

Spain is really developing? But late. In the rest of Europe the first high velocity lines were constructed 30 years ago. The first european high speed line have been the "Direttissima" Rome-Florenze, in Italy. You will end to them alone in 2020 :lol: .

[keros]

Spain is really developing? But late. In the rest of Europe the first high velocity lines were constructed 30 years ago. The first european high speed line have been the "Direttissima" Rome-Florenze, in Italy. You will end to them alone in 2020 :lol: .

Spain has high speed lines since many years ago ...

[BPT]

Spain is really developing? But late. In the rest of Europe the first high velocity lines were constructed 30 years ago. The first european high speed line have been the "Direttissima" Rome-Florenze, in Italy. You will end to them alone in 2020 :lol: .

How many kilometres of HS lines are there in Italy now?. How many under construction?.

The HSL Madrid-Sevilla (speeds up to 300 km/h) was developted in 1987 and built betwen 1988-1992. 16 years from now.

@Bule:

You forgot the Gec Alsthom S-100 from 1992.

http://www.wefer.com/imatges/renfe/100_00-01.jpg

[Coccodrillo]

^^

In a few words, the lines shown in light blue on this map, plus the line between Firenze/Florence and Roma/Rome:

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_italy.php

(new HSL are electrified in 25 kV AC, but the Firenze-Roma opened in the '80 is in 3 kV DC)

[cesitar]

But ther is a thing I am very worried about. HST are showing up everywhere in spain and that is a great thing. Nevertheless, conventional railways are often being totally abandonned. it shouldn't happen, because HST only call for the cities, and conventional raylways call for the towns and villages.

Completely agree with you.

Spain is really developing? But late. In the rest of Europe the first high velocity lines were constructed 30 years ago. The first european high speed line have been the "Direttissima" Rome-Florenze, in Italy. You will end to them alone in 2020 :lol: .

The first spanish HSL was working on 1992. That's 15 years ago. 30 years ago, not even the french had a HSL (maybe only Japan), since the TGV service began on 1981. If you want to consider that Pendolino is High Speed, then ok, but in that case, Talgo Pendular may also be seen as high speed train. I'm fed up with these italians that believe that Italy is still the center of the world, that finished with the Roman Empire. Of course, Spain is not the center of the world at all, and almost nobody in Spain does think that, we are much more humble. I really don't know whatever could have happened if Italy had a dictator during 40 years, like Spain did.

[GENIUS LOCI]

I think this thread should be moved on new railways subsection

[Stifler]

In a few words, the lines shown in light blue on this map, plus the line between Firenze/Florence and Roma/Rome:

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_italy.php

(new HSL are electrified in 25 kV AC, but the Firenze-Roma opened in the '80 is in 3 kV DC)
And are all that lines above 200-230kph?

[HiRyu]

Spain is really developing? But late. In the rest of Europe the first high velocity lines were constructed 30 years ago. The first european high speed line have been the "Direttissima" Rome-Florenze, in Italy. You will end to them alone in 2020 :lol: .


I went last summer to Italy and trains were just shameful. I traveled from Rome to Firenze and Peruggia and trains haven't air conditioning and they're from '60

[GENIUS LOCI]

And are all that lines above 200-230kph?

They're 300 kph

[Bitxofo]

And are all that lines above 200-230kph?
In Spain, up to 300kph now, 350kph in December 2007!
:yes:

[Chilenofuturista]

Speaking of Italy, I went there last summer and the most modern trains didn't impress a bit on me. Need I say that the train from Naples arrived 3 hours late to Termini(Rome) and I didn't get my money back? :) Need I say that it was quite common to see trains arriving late and the stations didn't look very clean, so to say. Nevertheless, I liked being there and I liked the people, so no, I'm not hostile towards Italy or Italians. And yes, Spain's new HSL network is very impressive and the country together with others such as France, Japan, Germany and South Korea will be on the frontline regarding HSL technology.

Tanti saluti/Saludos/Cheers.

[Andrew]

Please take a few seconds out of your complaining about the late development of Spanish HSL to remember those countries less fortunate than yourselves. Please spare a thought for us poor souls in Britain who STILL don't have HSL (CTRL is not worth counting) and don't have the prospect of getting it in the forseeable future. We have what, the 6th largest economy in the world... why the hell are we so backward?!? Seriously guys, count your blessings. You've got a great new HSL network that's rapidly expanding.

[aquablue]

Speaking of Italy, I went there last summer and the most modern trains didn't impress a bit on me. Need I say that the train from Naples arrived 3 hours late to Termini(Rome) and I didn't get my money back? :) Need I say that it was quite common to see trains arriving late and the stations didn't look very clean, so to say. Nevertheless, I liked being there and I liked the people, so no, I'm not hostile towards Italy or Italians. And yes, Spain's new HSL network is very impressive and the country together with others such as France, Japan, Germany and South Korea will be on the frontline regarding HSL technology.

Tanti saluti/Saludos/Cheers.

What are you talking about -- Italy will have many beautiful new HSR stations, new HS trains and is constructing many new lines at the moment...do your homework before putting down Italy..

Any italians here want to show these poor fools what you are developing and what is planned? Please do.

[fishcatdogbird]

What are you talking about -- Italy will have many beautiful new HSR stations, new HS trains and is constructing many new lines at the moment...do your homework before putting down Italy..

Any italians here want to show these poor fools what you are developing and what is planned? Please do.

I noticed exactly the same thing when i was in Italy over the last 2 years, the trains are always late, not just by 10 minutes but hours and your seat is often double booked, crazy! The trains seem nice though, but many stop too often, and whats with the food onboard, the country has such beutiful food but the train cafes are worse than mini trolleys in Britain LOL...

my 2 pence

[matherto]

What are you talking about -- Italy will have many beautiful new HSR stations, new HS trains and is constructing many new lines at the moment...do your homework before putting down Italy..

Any italians here want to show these poor fools what you are developing and what is planned? Please do.

"will have" "new" "constructing"

all points for the future, this guy was talking about his past experiences, learn to read before you try and defend something which clearly was a problem in his opinion.

I visited Venice and wasn't impressed on the whole with the city, went to the train station to have a look around, the architecture and overall scale of the place was nice, but it was dirty and the trains were late just as the guy said

[Thermo]

Does anyone have a map of all high speed lines in the EU?

[Napo]

What are you talking about -- Italy will have many beautiful new HSR stations, new HS trains and is constructing many new lines at the moment...do your homework before putting down Italy..

Any italians here want to show these poor fools what you are developing and what is planned? Please do.

New stations for high speed trains

Napoli-Afragola (under construction)
http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/308/latosudest.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/308/zaha-tav1.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/308/zaha-tav2.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/308/interno.jpg

Torino-PortaSusa with a skyscraper of 100 m (under construction)

http://www.lastampa.it/redazione/cmssezioni/torino/200604images/portasusa.jpg

http://www.albero.info/img/portasusa.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/recm/images/rec/9099/9099A3.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/recm/images/rec/9099/9099A5.jpg

Roma-Tiburtina (the construction will begin time soon)

http://www.dsmarioalicata.it/images/img_generiche/staz_tiburtina1(400).jpg

http://www.studioseste.it/images/index2/img2.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/2168/1155822138.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/1129/47382804.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/recm/images/rec/8995/08.jpg

Firenze-Belfiore (under development)

http://www.archimagazine.com/atav2.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/recm/images/rec/9476/Untitled-2.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/recm/images/rec/9476/Untitled-1.jpg

http://architettura.supereva.com/architetture/20021203/12_c.jpg

The Italian High Speed train is the ETR500 (built in Italy by an italian company, AnsaldoBreda, with technologies developed in Italy, not like in Spain, whose high velocity trains are constructed by French (Alstom) and Germans (Siemens) companies, with French and German technologies, not spanish.)

http://www.olmobronzino.net/treni/foto/2002/25_2002.jpg

http://www.lyonturin-ferroviaire.com/upload/File/liaisonferroviaire/etr500.jpg

Future HS Lines in Italy

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Italy_TAV.png

[frozen]

[QUOTE=Napo;11164000]New stations for high speed trains

The Italian High Speed train is the ETR500 (built in Italy by an italian company, AnsaldoBreda, with technologies developed in Italy, not like in Spain, whose high velocity trains are constructed by French (Alstom) and Germans (Siemens) companies, with French and German technologies, not spanish.)

[QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GENIUS LOCI;10255717]New ETR.600 Alstom out of the factory

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5688/img26704qu8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1995/normaletr600200001pi8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7628/img26785jv3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4036/img26787oa6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7691/img26702po5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2913/normaletr600200002jj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/2582/normalimg26237im8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/138/img26792up7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


"High-Speed Railways in Spain
Spain is rapidly expanding its high-speed rail service, becoming one of most connected countries in the world. As the high- speed rail network grows, Spanish companies continue to innovate and provide new services and products at lower prices to meet the world’s growing demand. This is the fourth in an eight-part series highlighting new technologies in Spain and is produced by Technology Review, Inc.’s custom-publishing division in partnership with the Trade Commission of Spain.

By Cynthia Graber"

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/index.aspx

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/map/images/International_trainmap.gif

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/spainmap/images/Spain_trainmap.gif

"...The term “high-speed rail” does not refer to a particular type of train but, rather, simply to the speeds it can attain. Today most high-speed trains are electric, though diesel trains, incorporating newer technology, have been able to reach similar speeds. For instance, the Spanish company Talgo has a diesel train that reached 250 kilometers per hour in testing, though its trains purchased for systems around the world remain electric..."


Could you accept the reality instead of lying, please?

[HiRyu]

SORRY, REPEATED POST

[HiRyu]

[QUOTE=Napo;11164000]New stations for high speed trains

The Italian High Speed train is the ETR500 (built in Italy by an italian company, AnsaldoBreda, with technologies developed in Italy, not like in Spain, whose high velocity trains are constructed by French (Alstom) and Germans (Siemens) companies, with French and German technologies, not spanish.)
QUOTE]

Poor you, you write but you don't know anything at all. Do you know TALGO? you can see pics of its trains up here posted by Bitxofo. TALGO is Spanish company with Spanish Technology and its trains are much more impressive than italian ones how you can see

[Napo]

Forezen, the italian high speed train is the ETR500 built by AnsaldoBreda!!!!
The Alstom ETR600 is a new pendolino.


Yes HIRyu, i know Talgo, and I konw the (not) spanish high velocity trains:

by Alstom (a copy of TGV)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/AVE.Sevilla.jpg

[Napo]

Frozen, the italian high speed train is the ETR500 built by AnsaldoBreda!!!!
The Alstom ETR600 is a new pendolino.


Yes HIRyu, i know Talgo, and I konw the (not) spanish high velocity trains:

by Alstom (a copy of TGV)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/AVE.Sevilla.jpg


Hola :)

[amagaldu]

please guys whether spanish or italian can you please, please, please stop with this fight..? you are ruining this interesting tread..

I think the mods should delete all these posts which are not related to the subject which is New HSL in Spain..

Does anyone have a map of all high speed lines in the EU? yes Thermo, I think you are dutch, aren´t you..?

in that thread you can find few ones and links to other pages..

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=420528

[HiRyu]

aha, so in Spain there're spanish technology trains and trains with french or german technology too... so where's the problem?? If you want to talk about Italian trains, please open a new thread and dont ruin this, thank you

[frozen]

please guys whether spanish or italian can you please, please, please stop with this fight..? you are ruining this interesting tread..

I think the mods should delete all these posts which are not related to the subject which is New HSL in Spain..

yes Thermo, I think you are dutch, aren´t you..?

in that thread you can find few ones and links to other pages..

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=420528

There is no fight here. Napo says that italian trains are made in Italian and i just show him that it was false.

Besides, he said that spanish train were all strangers and that's not true, so i write the link explaining about Talgo trains but he didnt notice yet.

But, i dont care, finally the spanish high speed is developing right now and we will see the results.

i'm going to load again any images about spanish tecnology (Cause this thread IS ABOUT SPANISH HSL, not from italy):

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/images/train_page1.gif

CAF is spanish mark too:
http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow_B.gif

Another spanish design:
http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow3.gif

Spanish companies have developed tilting technologies, helping trains navigate curves in the line with greater speed, comfort and safety.

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow6.gif

Spanish design too:
http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow7.gif

Spanish alvia:
http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/train/images/slideshow10.gif

Countries like Finland, Belgium, UK, USA or Italy, have adquired spanish tecnology
http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/map/images/International_trainmap.gif

[DonQui]

Great to see how the Italians have ruined this thread. :cheer:

You wanna talk about your great looking tains and stations, open another thread.

Spare us the crap :)

[aquablue]

"will have" "new" "constructing"

all points for the future, this guy was talking about his past experiences, learn to read before you try and defend something which clearly was a problem in his opinion.

I visited Venice and wasn't impressed on the whole with the city, went to the train station to have a look around, the architecture and overall scale of the place was nice, but it was dirty and the trains were late just as the guy said

you may not be impressed with Venice, but its certaintly one hell of a lot more intersting than Liverpool, and not as grimy -- at least it isn't ruined by countless ugly post war buildings in the historic center or brutalist concrete monstrosities...

The trains in Italy In my experience were great -- on time and fast ... much much better than those silly UK railways

[aquablue]

I'm not Italian but I'm tired of seeing this country being scorned by people on this forum -- I didn't start the talk about Italian Trains, I just came in to respond to the Spanish Forumer talking down about the trains in Italy.... The spanish area always posting on this forum talking about how great their trains are, and to be honest, they are not that special in comparison to other train systems around the world such as France, Japan .. and Italy will have a similar system as Spain... They have ordered a new Alstom AGV for 2009 with similar speeds as that ICE 3 (350kph)..

[aquablue]

DP

[DonQui]

I'm not Italian but I'm tired of seeing this country being scorned by people on this forum -- I didn't start the talk about Italian Trains, I just came in to respond to the Spanish Forumer talking down about the trains in Italy.... The spanish area always posting on this forum talking about how great their trains are, and to be honest, they are not that special in comparison to other train systems around the world such as France, Japan .. and Italy will have a similar system as Spain... They have ordered a new Alstom AGV for 2009 with similar speeds as that ICE 3 (350kph)..
I am not Italian either, but let me tell you about my experience with trains in Italy:

Rome to Naples: train delayed, kicked off of train so that SQUEGEE men could be brought on an mop out the water.

Naples to Rome: track fire that was so hot that you felt the heat as you passed by.

Rome to Florence: the only trip without a problem, although it was so fricking hot that it makes me wonder how a MEDITERRANEAN country deals with a lack of air condition.

Florence to Venice: this one takes the cake. train 4 hours delayed, we were then told to upgrade to a Eurostar service as this would be the safer bet, AND we had to PAY for the upgrade.

:cheer:

[aquablue]

Well, my experience was flawless between Rome-Florence - Florence - Venice - Venice - Milan ..

You can complain all you like about Italy, but the fact remains that they are well ahead of many other developed or rich countries in the realm HSR. In adition they are are building 3 or 4 HSR lines, 4 new amazing HSR stations that are all architectural masterpieces, have a good HST (ETR 500), an updated pendolino comming soon (ETR 600) for regular lines, a new AGV on order for 2009 - compare that to countries like the the USA, which is currently building no LGVs and has no real LGV's ATM; not to mention the UK which only has the CTRL and no real domestic HSR yet.

[Cicerón]

This thread is about a Spanish new HSL. If you want to argue about different issues, don't do it here. Thanks.

[frozen]

I'm not Italian but I'm tired of seeing this country being scorned by people on this forum -- I didn't start the talk about Italian Trains, I just came in to respond to the Spanish Forumer talking down about the trains in Italy.... The spanish area always posting on this forum talking about how great their trains are, and to be honest, they are not that special in comparison to other train systems around the world such as France, Japan .. and Italy will have a similar system as Spain... They have ordered a new Alstom AGV for 2009 with similar speeds as that ICE 3 (350kph)..

This is a spanish high speed thread, if anyone wants to talk abo0ut italian high speed, there are many threads but not here. The thread is called " New HSL in Spain" and not New HSL in Italy. It's simple, isnt it?

[aquablue]

Yes its about spanish trains, but someone here started to talk about Italian trains and putting them down...Given people started comparing the two countries' train systems, its only fair that one can defend the Italian system against the Spanish in this thread, as it still involves the Spanish trains.

[amagaldu]

please guys whether spanish or italian can you please, please, please stop with this fight..? you are ruining this interesting tread..

I think the mods should delete all these posts which are not related to the subject which is New HSL in Spain..

the thread has already been reported and 11 posts after I wrote this it´s still the same..

I hope a mod will soon take care of this..

[frozen]

Yes its about spanish trains, but someone here started to talk about Italian trains and putting them down...Given people started comparing the two countries' train systems, its only fair that one can defend the Italian system against the Spanish in this thread, as it still involves the Spanish trains.

People is explaing their own experiences and if your train came 3 hours later and you want explain it, it's natural.This is a forum, and people share our own experiences, and if you have to comment a bad one, you can do. In Spain didnt sell you two different tickets for the same sit or no trains come 3 hours later. I think you would take the energy to trying to improve that instead of refusing and say italian railways are better (No spanish said it, at least, i didnt read it).

[Coccodrillo]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Italy_TAV.png

- HSL in service (blue)
- HSL under construction (dark green)
- HSL in planning (yellow)
- improvements works on an existing line (light green)
- projected improvements (orange)
- existing line (black)

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/spainmap/images/Spain_trainmap.gif

Again, that's not all HSL.

Anyway, the Pendolino tilting train (as the ETR 600) was developed by Fiat:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5688/img26704qu8.jpg

[Reivajar]

HSL network in Spain will be a combination of new lines (300-350kph), and old upgraded lines (220-250 kph). Generally, new lines will link Madrid to peripherical regions, and upgraded lines will be used as transversal and secondary connections. The objective is linking any provincial capital to Madrid in less than 4 hours and to Barcelona in less than 6.

[aquablue]

Its amazing to think that Spain has now superior infrastructure than the UK, which is a richer country...Spain was once the poorest EU country, its quite amazing how it leapfrogged the wealthier nations -- it must be something to do with EU subsidies and in terms of the rail projects, Spain's low density population and large land mass in comparison to the UK would make things easier to build new HSR lines through the countryside... I believe Spain is a huge country and it is much easier to build rail lines without disrupting population centers in comparison to the UK or Italy which are much smaller in land mass but with larger populations.

[HiRyu]

Its amazing to think that Spain has now superior infrastructure than the UK, which is a richer country...Spain was once the poorest EU country, its quite amazing how it leapfrogged the wealthier nations -- it must be something to do with EU subsidies and in terms of the rail projects, Spain's low density population and large land mass in comparison to the UK would make things easier to build new HSR lines through the countryside... I believe Spain is a huge country and it is much easier to build rail lines without disrupting population centers in comparison to the UK or Italy which are much smaller in land mass but with larger populations.

That's not true. Spain never has been the poorest country in EU, do you know Portugal or Greece?

[Larrotcha]

For some time now i have been looking at the remarkable developments in Spain. Both economically and socially. And what strikes me most are the reactions from especially english and italian side (where are the french?). The fact that they put so much effort in talking Spain down just says enough.

Aquablue, it is not just about subsidies. It is about having a a proper vision, proper planning and a system where a large number of construction companies compete for building stretches of the tracks. Thereby limiting the construction costs. Bear in mind that is no coincidence that Spanish companies are at the forewront in worldwide infrastructure construction/management.

Unlike some countries where no planning seems to exist, good money is thrown after bad and 'incentives' need to be offered to get the contracts.

Spain has indeed been receiving - and still is to a lesser extent - large sums of cohesion funds. Maybe we should conclude they put it at good work.

Then again, it is not one big success story. There have been some serious delays - like most of the infrastructure projects of this magnitude - and I seriously doubt it the HSL will reach Barcelona by the end of this year.

Also, I doesn't seem HSL lines are easier to build in Spain. It is a country full of mountainranges and its cities are densely populated. A lot of tunnel boring is involved as well building structures to cross the many valleys.

[oduguy1999]

alot of people tend to forget that Spain has a trillion dollar economy and should be part of the G8. Most EU money goes to the poorer regions of Spain like Andalucia and Extremadura. Madrid, as well as Barcelona, is one of the wealthiest cities in europe and has one of the highest GDPs. Spain is very mountainous and most these projects are more difficult to build then in other flat nations. Spain has made a concerted effort to connect all their densely populated cities and they seem to plan and carry out their plans very effeciently(unlike many other nations). Spain has come a long way from the days of when it was under the rule of the tyrranical dictator Franco. But it has managed to show a great deal of resolve and ingenuity. I do agree, I do feel there are alot of jealous forumers from other nations that critique Spain. Maybe they should stop being jealous and look at that innovative thinking that the Spaniards bring forth.

[Crocodine]

Another hijacked thread! Yeah!!

Bragveza rules.

[Facial]

Excellent shots.

[Stifler]

I believe Spain is a huge country and it is much easier to build rail lines without disrupting population centers in comparison to the UK or Italy which are much smaller in land mass but with larger populations.
That's true in the interior of the country (like the plateau of Castile), but not in the coastal regions, which have a pretty high density.

Moreover, Spain is the second most mountainous European country (after Switzerland), so we have to build big tunnels.

Spain will spend 43% of the 2005-2020 Strategic Plan for Infrastructures and Transport budget in railways (more than €100,000 million).

[Cicerón]

Another hijacked thread! Yeah!!

Bragveza rules.

¡Viva la Bragveza!
:cheers:

[frozen]

Its amazing to think that Spain has now superior infrastructure than the UK, which is a richer country...Spain was once the poorest EU country, its quite amazing how it leapfrogged the wealthier nations -- it must be something to do with EU subsidies and in terms of the rail projects, Spain's low density population and large land mass in comparison to the UK would make things easier to build new HSR lines through the countryside... I believe Spain is a huge country and it is much easier to build rail lines without disrupting population centers in comparison to the UK or Italy which are much smaller in land mass but with larger populations.

Spain was one of the poorer but no the poorest (Portugal, Greece, central european countries, eastern european countries). And Spain was the richest country once too (century XVI) and?

Contruction in Spain is very difficult because is the second country in Europe in highlands (after Switzland). The average of altitude in Spain is about 700m over sea level. So it's difficult to build in a country full of range of mountains and try to contruct a train line from 0 meters (coast) to 700m (madrid altitude) or 800 m (most of Castillians cities are over 800m, Soria and Avila 1200m)

http://www.proteccioncivil.org/informes/manueltrujillo/imagenes/01.jpg

[Bitxofo]

I just wait for December of this year 2007:

Barcelona-Madrid in 2 hours 15 minutes, direct trains!
:drool::drool:

[aquablue]

To be honest, having to build tunnels, etc.. is nothing compared to dealing with citizen groups that are deadset on preventing their precious countryside from dissapearing or being divided by HSR infrastructure.. That is why I mentioned that in the UK it is more difficult to piece together such projects as there are more towns and villages to bypass, more opposition to percieved environmental impacts, etc.. This is of course a result of its higher population density. Spain's cities are dense, but its interior is rather not, and the majority of rail lines run through the interior. Not through cities but only ending/starting in them.

Having vast open spaces composed of mountain ranges and valleys like in interior spain is a detriment and it certaintly costs more in construction, but in reality it is a blessing in disguise. This is because the gelogical engineering challenges are not as severe a setback compared to the iron fist of political opposition and citzen organized protest groups which more often than not prevent such massive projects from ever getting rolling in the first place. This of course is resultant from the difficulty in aquiring enough land in the immediate vicinity of farms, small villages, etc. that lie along the various route options in such a country as the UK or elswhere.

[Crocodine]

You're totally right, aquablue. :yes:
And an excellent post, by the way. :applause:

[Skylandman]

To be honest, having to build tunnels, etc.. is nothing compared to dealing with citizen groups that are deadset on preventing their precious countryside from dissapearing or being divided by HSR infrastructure.. That is why I mentioned that in the UK it is more difficult to piece together such projects as there are more towns and villages to bypass, more opposition to percieved environmental impacts, etc.. This is of course a result of its higher population density. Spain's cities are dense, but its interior is rather not, and the majority of rail lines run through the interior. Not through cities but only ending/starting in them.

Having vast open spaces composed of mountain ranges and valleys like in interior spain is a detriment and it certaintly costs more in construction, but in reality it is a blessing in disguise. This is because the gelogical engineering challenges are not as severe a setback compared to the iron fist of political opposition and citzen organized protest groups which more often than not prevent such massive projects from ever getting rolling in the first place. This of course is resultant from the difficulty in aquiring enough land in the immediate vicinity of farms, small villages, etc. that lie along the various route options in such a country as the UK or elswhere.


So then can you explain me how is that the Uk has such a dense regular rails ,roads and motorways networks? I guess that all the troubles you mention above didn´t applied for that kinf of works...they just apply for the HST network.

The UK doesn´t have a HST network, not because the citizens oposition, neither because it can´t afford it, but because their politicians until now are lacking the willing of doing it.

See Germany, they have a similar population density and similar conditions, but they didn´t lack the willing.

[Iggui]

estos trenes son una mi3rda...










;) just kidding. me gustaron mucho. quede muy impresionado con estos hipermodernos trenes. i'm very jealous. i wish we had trains like those in the US and A.

[Bitxofo]

2 ALViA (HS trains) in Barcelona França station last Saturday:
;)
http://i18.tinypic.com/29puc03.jpg
:wink2:

[Enzo911]

napotroll in action

[Tintin]

The amount of EU funds used to finance HST in Spain would barely cover the cost of the HST Madrid-Barcelona-French Border.

Cohesion funds have been a boost for HST development in Spain, for sure, but are just a tiny part of a huge financial effort made by a country, let´s remember, that has been succesful - at the same time - to keep its macroeconomic figures - public debt & deficit - in a much healthier status than almost any other country in the EU.

It´s all about been comitted.

[Chilenofuturista]

The amount of EU funds used to finance HST in Spain would barely cover the cost of the HST Madrid-Barcelona-French Border.

Cohesion funds have been a boost for HST development in Spain, for sure, but are just a tiny part of a huge financial effort made by a country, let´s remember, that has been succesful - at the same time - to keep its macroeconomic figures - public debt & deficit - in a much healthier status than almost any other country in the EU.

It´s all about been comitted.

Así es / Exactly. :yes:

Insisto: he sido, lo soy y seguiré siendo un admirador de mi Madre Patria.
Go Spain!

[zergcerebrates]

They're going to paint this train right?

the window area looks burnt and unfinished.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4036/img26787oa6.jpg

[mirza-sm]

Countries like Finland, Belgium, UK, USA or Italy, have adquired spanish tecnology
http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/map/images/International_trainmap.gif

We also ordered some Talgo trains for 2009 ;)

[Bitxofo]

^^Where?
:?

[willo]

^^ i guess Bosnia looking at his avatar

[Coccodrillo]

Exactly, Bosnia.

They're going to paint this train right?

the window area looks burnt and unfinished.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4036/img26787oa6.jpg

Yes, it was tested without final colours and without seats.

[Enzo911]

El sábado pasado, tuve la oportunidad de participar en una de las pruebas de homologación del S103, cosa que aproveche para realizar unas cuantas fotos.

El tren en vivo es realmente bonito y espectacular, al igual que el interior, pero mejor juzgad vosotros mismos:

Esterior del S103 estacionado en Puerta de Atocha:

Exterior velaro:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7195/velaro054lt0.jpg

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6645/velaro048an6.jpg

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9509/velaro055tw5.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/2787/velaro056ui9.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7633/velaro051nv1.jpg

Siemens S103 Velaro

[Cicerón]

^^ More pictures here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=445711

[Già]

Me gusta mucho....... muchisimo..... y me gusta mucho la livrea de Renfe....

[frozen]

Es realmente fantástico y espectacular!!!:banana: :banana:

[DonQui]

sexy train. :drool:

[arriaca]

El martes pasado, en una de mis habituales escapadas a Sevilla tuve la oportunidad de asistir a uno de los primeros viajes del reformado S100. No circulaba en servicio comercial, como parecían apuntar las distintas notas de prensa, y debía de tener todavía los asientos calientes tras su presentación a los medios esa misma mañana en los talleres de la Sagra.

Como para gustos los colores, decir que es muy discreto el cambio que han realizado. Un tren que creo que está envejeciendo muy bien, y al que únicamente le han cambiado exteriormente los logos y la raya azul por la pantone. Podrían haber aprovechado y pintarle también de negro los espacios entre ventanas, como su hermano el pato. Pero aún así creo que la actuación ha sido muy acertada.


Ave S 100 original y reformado

http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/6800/pict0025fv3.jpg

Saliendo ya de la estación con destino Madrid

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/648/pict0041hm5.jpg

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1641/pict0039hs4.jpg

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/4618/pict0026ez5.jpg

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8605/pict0023kc2.jpg

Interiores de los coches de clase turista. Gracias al túnel pude sacar estas fotos, aunque no sean muy claras se puede intuir la tapicería y las lámparas de las mesas de leds

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/1213/pict0022uy4.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8909/pict0021wz1.jpg

Una de las partes técnicas más bonitas del tren, a imagen del talgo, boje común para dos coches

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3103/pict0020fs4.jpg

Y ya por último la familia AVE sevillana al completo, con las lanzaderas S104 de Córdoba en la vía derecha.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3418/pict0015mh9.jpg

[frozen]

Muchas gracias por las fotos. Me encanta el cambio del azul por el morado, parece más elegante. Ese modelo es tecnología española 100%?

[JoKo65]

No, es técnica francesa.

[sdf11]

Técnica española:

Talgo 350 / AVE S 102:
qNgq1CD6bGk

CAF "BRAVA" / AVE S 120 (comercial name: Renfe Alvia)
GEQ044ZgUeU


Los otros AVE son:
uno de técnica francesa (S 100/S 101) los de las últimas fotos, derivada directamente del TGV.

Y el otro ( AVE S 103 o Velaro) es una evolución del ICE 3 Alemán, pero con una vel. max. de 350 km/h, convirtiendose así en el tren más rápido del mundo.

P.D. Recordad que actualmente el AVE S 103 es el tren en composicion "comercial" más rápido del mundo con 404 km/h en un tramo de la nueva HSL Mad-Bcn (el TGV logra grandes "records" pero con trenes modificados explicitamente para ello, por lo que no deberia ser el tren comercial más rápido del mundo como parece que quieren decirnos o como así lo piensa la gente de a pié, sino el "convoy sobre railes" mas rápido del mundo).

[Bitxofo]

No, es técnica francesa.
Tecnología, no técnica, francesa sólo para el AVE 100 made in 1991.
:yes:
Only French technology for AVE 100 series made in 1991.
;)

[arriaca]

Otros detalles un pelín puntillosos es que S 120 no se llama Brava, puesto que Brava es el nombre que se le dio al boje de ancho variable. Y que el S103 es el tren más rápido en servicio comercial.

Saludos

[sdf11]

^^

Brava no solo es el bogie sino que tambien es como llaman al proyecto en conjunto (al tren en si) dentro de la propia CAF; todo esto lo encontre en internet aunque si sabes cual es el verdadero nombre del proyecto dentro de CAF deberias decirnoslo:wink2:

A que velocidad va en ICE3 en servicio comercial?

[JoKo65]

^^

A que velocidad va en ICE3 en servicio comercial?

300 km/h.

330 km/h son possible.

[Cicerón]

I think we should write in English here ;)

[arriaca]

I think is better use Renfe names (S120 (Caf) and S103 (Siemens))

[sdf11]

^^

Yes, it's more clearly for all

Sorry for speak spanish in the internacional forum...

[growingup]

Here are some videos from the Spanish HST (AVE) and RENFE.
Renfe services' spot:
(Translation: "Get on-board, on technology, on safety, on words. Get on-board when you want to enjoy your trip or not to lose a minute. Get on-board with all you want us to take and what you need us to bring. Get on a train which takes care of the landscapes it travels through, a train which has a commitment with the world you live in, a train that comes from far away and still goes further away. Renfe, travelling to future. Do you want to get on-board?")
HG3OYbMkYDI
Renfe's AVE Spot:
(Translation: "Machines are made by men. Machines are what men do with them. Travelling to future. Do you want to get on-board?")
0fVAzwF-1js
A Talgo 350 S-102(Duck) leaving from station:
qNgq1CD6bGk
Some Talgo 350 S-102 and Siemens Velaro (An evolution of ICE-3) S-103 which will be used in new HSL. Madrid-Barcelona will top 400km/h (average 350km/h) thanks to the S-103, being the fastest commercial line when running at full speed in 2008:
D7--Ds9OsOk
First AVEs ALSTOM S-100 (derived from TGV Atlantique) reforms. They have been running since 1992 between Madrid and Seville. It tops 300km/h:
eyAc7m25fWM
And the Corporate video from Siemens of its new Velaro S-103:
wJKyisRKrLg
I hope you enjoy them :)

[arriaca]

^^

Yes, it's more clearly for all

Sorry for speak spanish in the internacional forum...


:yes:

[sotavento]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Italy_TAV.png

- HSL in service (blue)
- HSL under construction (dark green)
- HSL in planning (yellow)
- improvements works on an existing line (light green)
- projected improvements (orange)
- existing line (black)

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/spainmap/images/Spain_trainmap.gif

Again, that's not all HSL.

Anyway, the Pendolino tilting train (as the ETR 600) was developed by Fiat:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5688/img26704qu8.jpg

alot of people tend to forget that Spain has a trillion dollar economy and should be part of the G8. Most EU money goes to the poorer regions of Spain like Andalucia and Extremadura. Madrid, as well as Barcelona, is one of the wealthiest cities in europe and has one of the highest GDPs. Spain is very mountainous and most these projects are more difficult to build then in other flat nations. Spain has made a concerted effort to connect all their densely populated cities and they seem to plan and carry out their plans very effeciently(unlike many other nations). Spain has come a long way from the days of when it was under the rule of the tyrranical dictator Franco. But it has managed to show a great deal of resolve and ingenuity. I do agree, I do feel there are alot of jealous forumers from other nations that critique Spain. Maybe they should stop being jealous and look at that innovative thinking that the Spaniards bring forth.

Not quite right ... Spain has 6 times size of portugal ... 4 times the population ... and only 2 times the GDP per capita of portugal. :(

Spain basicaly is a lot os nowhere (centered in madrid) with almost all populated places located on the shores ... and half a dosen major cities in between.

Spanish High speed Network is basicaly some RADIAL 350km/h lines (basicaly new lines along existing ones wich will bem left as regional and freight corridors) linking Madrid with Those cities (Valladolid, Zaragoza,Cordoba,Albacete) , and the rest os the network is being upgraded to MIXED 200/250km/h (with many NEW variants being built).

And its universaly consentuous (?) that HSL is > 200km/h (125mph)

So british Pendulino(virgin), HST(many operators) and IC225(gner) are in fact High Speed Trains for instance ... and except for the WCML between Crewe and Scotland Englands railways are almost flat compared to Spain/Italy ... it's easy to upgrade everywhere to 200/300 running over there.

About the spanish trains ... Spanish CAF has buit many HST trains Of their oun design or based on designs by Their partners ... and talgo has trains running at 330km/h of their own design.

Only for italians fans ... "Pendulino" tecnology was based on a BRITISH design/tecnology (APT) and is now OWNED by french ALSTOM. ;)
Only for Italian Railways Critics ... the diference between the italian "late & smelly" intercity/regional trains and the "nice and tidy" Spanish trains is basicaly that in italy HST and regional trains are options you can take to go almost anywhere ... in spain every HST link killed the old route and all its services ... the most blatant case being Madrid-Toledo.

Here in portugal we have a SERIOUS problem ... we have a very saturated rail network ... and we "feel the urge" to connect our HSL to those 4 points on the border with spain ... but we "have the need" to build about 1000km of HSL over some heavily urbanized areas to do so ... .

[fertiberia]

http://st.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/risunis.gif......................................................................http://st.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/risunis2.gif
Spain has 6 times size of portugal ... 4 times the population ... and only 2 times the economic size of portugal.

http://st.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/meparto.gif

[fertiberia]

http://st.forocoches.com/foro/images/smilies/sifone.gif..

[Stifler]

Not quite right ... Spain has 6 times size of portugal ... 4 times the population ... and only 2 times the economic size of portugal.
:lol: :lol: What's your source?

The Spanish economic size is 6.5 times bigger than Portuguese one.

[sotavento]

:ohno: ... nice guys you all ... just went to get my breakfast and you already spammed my reply ... :bash:

not Economic size (what the hell is that) but GDP ... got to go to sleep or it becomes worst ... ;)

Just for the record GDP per capita its about Spain is $27.000 and portugal is $19.000 (at least acording to CIA)

Spain being $1.1 trilion and portugal $200 bilion ... so its only 5.5 times bigger. :P

And it was meant solely as a "smart ass" reply to oduguy1999's last phrase. :D

[Tintin]

^^

Spains´s GDP (2006) (http://www.economist.com/countries/Portugal/profile.cfm?folder=Profile%2DEconomic%20Structure): 1,231.4 US$ bn.
Portugal´s GDP (2006) (http://www.economist.com/countries/Portugal/profile.cfm?folder=Profile%2DEconomic%20Structure): 153 US$ bn.

1,231.4/153 = 8,04

[growingup]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Italy_TAV.png

- HSL in service (blue)
- HSL under construction (dark green)
- HSL in planning (yellow)
- improvements works on an existing line (light green)
- projected improvements (orange)
- existing line (black)

http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/spainmap/images/Spain_trainmap.gif

Again, that's not all HSL.


That's not true. All that lines in that map (this one, specifically, not others) are
HSL in Spain in standard UIC gauge. Not convetional, nor upgraded tracks, all new High Speed Lines (HSL) built in standard UIC gauge and electrified with 25Kv. 50 HZ A.C.

[Coccodrillo]

^^ in that map, blue lines are HSL in use, 25 kV and standard gauge. The red and dotted lines, are the same, but under construction (even if some stretches have yet been opened).

Green lines are planned.

They will be initially built at iberian gauge (1668 mm) but with convertible sleepers (1668 OR1435), electrification will probably be in 25 kV from the beginning.

Some are yet under construction, like Pontevedra-Santiago de Compostela-A Coruña. I've done Santiago-A Coruña by train in august 2006, on some streches my train run on the old line, on some other it used the new. Temporarly, 1668 mm and diesel traction.

Blue and red lines are or will be only-passenger 350 km/h lines, the greens ones miexed passenger/freight, with 200 to 220 km/h as speed limit (not really HSL). We will see how many green lines will be built.

I hope that iberic network will be converted to standard gauge in the future, especially for freight traffic. Rail freight traffic between Spain and France is very low, about 6 million tonnes each yerar :(

[growingup]

^^ in that map, blue lines are HSL in use, 25 kV and standard gauge. The red and dotted lines, are the same, but under construction (even if some stretches have yet been opened).

Green lines are planned.

They will be initially built at iberian gauge (1668 mm) but with convertible sleepers (1668 OR1435), electrification will probably be in 25 kV from the beginning.

Some are yet under construction, like Pontevedra-Santiago de Compostela-A Coruña. I've done Santiago-A Coruña by train in august 2006, on some streches my train run on the old line, on some other it used the new. Temporarly, 1668 mm and diesel traction.

Blue and red lines are or will be only-passenger 350 km/h lines, the greens ones miexed passenger/freight, with 200 to 220 km/h as speed limit (not really HSL). We will see how many green lines will be built.

I hope that iberic network will be converted to standard gauge in the future, especially for freight traffic. Rail freight traffic between Spain and France is very low, about 6 million tonnes each yerar :(

Once again, that's not true.
All that "green lines", or most of them, because oll of them are STILL a proyect, will be built in UIC from start. ADIF, the publish administrator of train infrastructures in Spain, knows that there's no much future on iberian gauge when talking about HSL, and given that fact, not a single NEW HSL in Spain will be built in iberian gauge. Of course there are upgraded tracks in iberian gauge that support speeds greater than 200km/h such as the one that links Barcelona-Valencia; but once again, not a single NEW HSL will be built in iberian gauge.
All of them would be electrified with 25kV 50Hz A.C. ; double tracks in the most important axes, single in those with lower traffic, as it happens already with Madrid-Toledo line.
Top speed on each line is a different thing... Many of them, the most important axes, will be thought to support speeds around 300-350km/h, as Córdoba-Málaga or Madrid-Barcelona. But, for sure all of the "green lines", will support speeds greater than 200km/h, as it is a condition to be considered a HSL in spain. Let's not forget the AVE S-103 (Siemens Velaro) has already achieved a speed of 403,7km/h in August 2006 and the AVE S-102 (Talgo 350 "Duck", a Spanish design) 365km/h in June 2006, both on them on Spanish tracks during tests and without too much hassle.
There will be no cross-levels in them (another requirment).
Trains will be equiped with GSM-R, ERTMS/ETCS level 2 as primary signalling system (to be implemented in 2008) and ERTMS/ETCS level 1 as a backing signalling system (already used in the parts of the Madrid-Barcelona line that are in service and to be implemented through out this year in the rest of the "blue" lines).
The Spanish goverment has an ambitious plan to have 2.230 km of HSL operational by 2010, and high-speed rail has been its "big bet" in infrastructures, taking half of all its great budget (including motorways, airports... ).
I'm aware it is difficult to achieve these goals for 2010 and those 7000km for 2020, but in any case, I'm sure HST have a brilliant future in Spain, as they are though to be a very valuable sign of progress among Spanish society.
PD: thanks to zoltan.

[Coccodrillo]

Compare this:
http://www.technologyreview.com/microsites/spain/train/player/spainmap/images/Spain_trainmap.gif (planned "HSL" lines)
and this:
http://bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/iberian-peninsula/iberian-peninsula.gif (existing network)

They shows about the same lines, that is, neraly all railways are planned to be upgraded to 200 km/h and UIC gauge.

It's true that Spain is planning to convert all of its network to standard gauge, it's true that al "green" line are planend to sue standard gauge in the future, but not from the beginning.

Once again, I have travelled the Santiago-A Coruña line in summer 2006, and it used iberian gauge and diesel trains even on the upgraded parts. Some parts of this line have yet been upgraded, some not = my train used the old line here, then the new there, and again the old line, then the new...

At least this line is being (re)built with iberian gauge and diesel traction, and will be converted later. Zoltan here or on Tranvia.org will confirm that.

So:
Phase one: new line, iberian gauge, 3 kV or diesel traction
Phase two: the new line will be converted to standard gauge and 25 kV
The "Corredor Atlántico" follows this scheme, and there is nothing shame in that.

Maybe some lines will built, or rebuilt, with standard gauge from the beginning, probably the lines near the French border, like the Y-Basca (Bilbao/Vitoria-San Sebastián-Irún-France).

I'm still unsure about what will happen with the Pajares base tunnel, anyway (León-Oviedo). Iberic or standard gauge...I think Zoltan answered that question somewhere.

[TohrAlkimista]

I believe Spain is a huge country and it is much easier to build rail lines without disrupting population centers in comparison to the UK or Italy which are much smaller in land mass but with larger populations.

Here I have to quote a thing, that a lot of people can't understand...for us a big problem is given by the shape of the country and by the distribution of population...

in many areas, which are really interested in the HSL, there is a continuity in terms of cities and population incredible...if you look with google earth, or something similar, you can easily understand it, for example,watching the area from Venice to Turin...

and where the problem are not the number of people or of cities, often is the conformation of the land...mountains...lika Appennini...

So in Italy the HSL cost a lot more than other countries,because of the population, the territory and also beacuse of the cost of the improvements of the actual network that is already quite exstensive. I

n Spain the situation is different...they are creating infrastructure that don't exist and often the build through quite desertic lands.

Here the actual italian and spanish network:

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps/italian-network/italian-network.gif

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps/iberian-peninsula/iberian-peninsula.gif[/QUOTE]

[frozen]

Here I have to quote a thing, that a lot of people can't understand...for us a big problem is given by the shape of the country and by the distribution of population...

in many areas, which are really interested in the HSL, there is a continuity in terms of cities and population incredible...if you look with google earth, or something similar, you can easily understand it, for example,watching the area from Venice to Turin...

and where the problem are not the number of people or of cities, often is the conformation of the land...mountains...lika Appennini...

So in Italy the HSL cost a lot more than other countries,because of the population, the territory and also beacuse of the cost of the improvements of the actual network that is already quite exstensive. I

n Spain the situation is different...they are creating infrastructure that don't exist and often the build through quite desertic lands.

Here the actual italian and spanish network:

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps/italian-network/italian-network.gif

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps/iberian-peninsula/iberian-peninsula.gif[/QUOTE]

Cause Spain is the second largest country in EU (499.542 km²) and Italy is 294,020 km².

Besides, Italy have more population than Spain

Italy--> 58.133.509 (2006)
Spain--> 44.395.286 (2006) BUT 40.202.160 (in 2001) and the inmigrant incoming is 660.000 per year.

So historically, Spain was bigger than Italy and the population was lower, it maybe can explain these maps

[pflo777]

660 000 people are immigrating per year?

Where do they come from? do you have a source for that?

Did the governemnt set any limit, what they regard as maximum for Spain?

I mean, in 10 years, Spain will have 50 mio people if it goes on like that...

[frozen]

660 000 people are immigrating per year?

Where do they come from? do you have a source for that?

Did the governemnt set any limit, what they regard as maximum for Spain?

I mean, in 10 years, Spain will have 50 mio people if it goes on like that...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=455003

Spain's immigration explosion second only to US

22 March 2007

In the past five years, Spain has become the country which receives the second highest number of immigrants after the U.S.

A report by the BBVA Bank Foundation found half of the new arrivals came to stay in Spain and had no intention of returning home.

The average number of arrivals was 600,000 a year.

Eight out of ten new members of the population are foreigners, says the report, called the Demographics of Foreigners.

“The intensity of migration to Spain has never been so strong as in the past six years,” said Antonio Izquierdo, professor of sociology at the University of Cordoba, who wrote the report.

He said Spain, in contrary to other European countries, was not just a target of emigration but “installation”.

Latin Americans continued to make up the largest number of arrivals, with 193,000 last year.

But Eastern Europeans were the fastest rising group, with 148,000 in 2006.

The same year, there were 98,000 EU citizens, 101,295 Africans and 31,275 Asians.

There were no clear figures for North Americans

http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=81&story_id=37954



España se convierte en el segundo país de destino de los inmigrantes

Un 10,8% de la población es estrangera

En España hay 4,1 millones de extranjeros, a los que se suman 700.000 que han obtenido la nacionalidad, es decir, el 10,8% de la población, la mayor intensidad inmigratoria de la historia de España, que ha convertido al país en el segundo con más inmigrantes, después de Estados Unidos.

La entrada de extranjeros a España entre 2000 y 2006 alcanzó un promedio

http://www.lavanguardia.es/gen/20070321/51314123092/noticias/espanya-se-convierte-en-el-segundo-pais-de-destino-de-los-inmigrantes-madrid-fundacion-bbva-aragon-estados-unidos-latinoamerica-gran-bretanya-asturias.html

THE 10,8% OF THE SPANISH POPPULATION IS FOREIGN

[Kika]

^^ I am sorry @Frozen but the size of Spain is 504.782 km2 :)

[frozen]

^^ I am sorry @Frozen but the size of Spain is 504.782 km2 :)
Yep, this is the total of the surface (sea + land). The number i wrote is the surface inland, not counting the sea territory :)

[TohrAlkimista]

I hope u will manage this immigration well...it Italy in some parts has become a problem...

[frozen]

I hope u will manage this immigration well...it Italy in some parts has become a problem...

The percentage of inmigrant in Italy is remmarkably lower than spanish one. I think integration needs both parts, not only inmigrant. We used to forget that inmigrant people have a rich culture, everyone.

[TohrAlkimista]

The percentage of inmigrant in Italy is remmarkably lower than spanish one. I think integration needs both parts, not only inmigrant. We used to forget that inmigrant people have a rich culture, everyone.

of course, I did not say the contrary...:ohno:


but I also say that immigration is not an easy thing...

[frozen]

of course, I did not say the contrary...:ohno:


but I also say that immigration is not an easy thing...

Yep, you are right. Sorry :)

[Kika]

Yep, this is the total of the surface (sea + land). The number i wrote is the surface inland, not counting the sea territory :)

Wrong, this is the total surface of the Spanish territory including the islands and the northern African territories. Why would I count the sea anyway?

[growingup]

There are important movements of inmigration in Spain right now, mainly from Latin America, obviously; but also an increasing inmigration from eastern Europe and Africa, plus those europeans (British,Germans... ) who choose our country to retire. I hope this inmigration is integrated well along the years, fistly because they are a very important part of our economic development and secondly, to avoid riots as those that happened in France. It is always good to learn from diferent cultures and the Iberian peninsula (Portugal and Spain) has been always a bridge between Western Europe and Africa during the middle ages, and later on, Latin America. Spanish and Portugal cultures are a mix of European, Jew and Arabic traditions.
Aniway returning to the matter, here are some more pics of HST on Spain:
AVE-S100 (GEC Alsthom):
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/ave100/lzr238_3804b.jpg
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/ave100/lzr232_3210b.jpg
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/ave100/SUC50024c.JPG
AVE-S102 (Talgo 350)
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/av_102/DSC_0837.jpg
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/av_102/jiedsc_0713.JPG
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/av_102/jpa-09-11.jpg
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/av_102/P061228139.jpg
Adif testing Talgo 350:
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/av_102/DSC02992.JPG
AVE-S103 (Siemens Velaro):
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/av_103/Ju329velr.jpg
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/av_103/HG001810.jpg
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/av_103/Ju244sagra.jpg
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/av_103/DSCM01423.jpg
AVE-S120 (CAF/Alsthom):
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/av_120/alviaedf02.jpg
AVE-S130 (Talgo):
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/289/130Pajares06.jpg
http://www.tranvia.org/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/trenreal/renfe/el_av/289/larios371.jpg

[picassoborseli]

It will not matter how hard Spain's effort is to develop the country. Others will say that thanks to "their" money Spain is able to built infrastructure like the HSL. No matter how many times we explain that Spain's poorest regions receive the money from the European Union. And that the greatest part of the projects ar fund by the spanish gouvernment and several enterprises...

But that is not their real problem. They are just jalous about the fact that Spain will be a richer country than theirs. When they take a look to the images of new HSL-lines. they look back to the past when Spain was a poor country and when Spaniards always had to look up to the others.
Time is changing and Spain is a devolopped country like France, UK, germany, Italy and The Netherlands.

There's nothing wrong there and those countries are wonderfull in their specific way! Spain has it's bad and good things, like any other country.
This threat is talking about Spanish HSL. If you think it's crap, don't post your crap, because in Spain they allready know that you think In Spain "Things can't be better than in nothern Europe".

[^Anton^]

^^
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[frozen]

^^
:applause: :applause: :applause:

According to Spanish president Spain will be the first country in number of High speed reilway in the world in 2010.

Spain is changing "its skin" and becoming one of the most advanced countries(laws, infrastructures, economy,...)

[TohrAlkimista]

yes, I agree with picassoborseli, you used and you are using very well the european financial programmes for the less developed areas. Spain will become one of the main worldwide economies in 10 years! :)

[growingup]

Oh come on! Will this comments one day come to an end?
Spain is already "one of the main worldwide economies". Acording to the World Bank Spain is the eight largest economy in the world. It is also the fastest growing economy in the UE15 at around rates of 3.5%. Yes, we should be in the G8, but that's not our purpose.
Spain has to be focused on improving more and further away. We have to look 32 years ago, when we were under a dictatorship, an just a little further ahead, 60 years, when our country was isolated economically from the rest of the world after the Axis, which were Spanish allies during that time, surrendered; and when all our infrastructures were badly damaged because of the Spanish Civil War.
We have walked with giant steps since the return of democracy to our country. Our economy has literally "boomed" and our biggest enterprises are taken in consideration worldwide, such as Telefónica, BSCH, BBVA, Acciona, FCC, ACS, Inditex, Iberia... among many others.
Returning to infrastructures, yes, we have received "Cohesion funds" (that's how "their" money is called) and we did with them what we had to, we invested them, and what's more, we invested them extremely wisely. Spanish government and Spanish infrasctructures development companies have created an unique way of building infrastructures, reducing costs and increasing revenues. In fact, in the world of concessions for infrastructure development, Spanish companies lead the international market. Six of the 10 top transportation concession companies are based in Spain, constructing and/or managing about 40 percent of all major transportation concessions in the world. Spanish companies are taking their knowledge and experience into an increasing number of markets each year. Currently, Spain has also the largest highway network in Europe with more than 13000 km, and it is still growing.
The government has realised the next main step in developing our infrastructures is improving our poor railroads, focusing on HSL and HST. And, as frozen said, according to our President, Spain will be the first country in number of High Speed Lines Km in the world in 2010, and the targets are even bigger for 2020.
So, please, stop bringing down Spanish efforts. As an interesting note, Spanish society is not concious of its own development, and it is not until Spaniards travel abroad that they do realise that we are in a very strong position among many other developed countries... and this mentality is what make us to improve day after day, thinking we can do much better, with many milestones to achieve, and that there are many things to solve and work out yet.
Oh, and just to finish, Spanish will not benefit from more Cohesion Funds in a short period of time, not to take into account that the money we receive now is far less compared with what we received during 1986-2002.

[sdf11]

^^

:applause:

:laugh:

[Kika]

yes, I agree with picassoborseli, you used and you are using very well the european financial programmes for the less developed areas. Spain will become one of the main worldwide economies in 10 years! :)

Unfortunately we cannot say the same for southern Italy… Why don’t you guys use the European funds as they very well do in Spain? Is it the high level of corruption, the mafia or you just don’t have any projects where to invest these European funds that Italy equally needs? It's a real pity because many areas and not only in the south are desperately crying for investments in infrastructures and many other areas. Spain nowadays has definitely nothing to envy to Italy in those aspects…

By the way, Spain is catching up quickly on Italy in all aspects such as the HDI (Human Development Index) that is probably the best indicator on how a country is developed or not and the best in terms of quality of life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Top_thirty_countries_.28HDI_range_from_0.965_down_to_0.885.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Top_thirty_countries_.28HDI_range_from_0.965_down_to_0.885.29). Spain is seen to take over Italy by next year and this is by far not just because of these European funds which very much helped the country but should that for sure but should not hide the fact that Spain is economically growing at a quite faster rate than other Western European countries driven mainly by its high internal consumption. I think envy and jealousy or maybe even ignorance make some people writing or saying ignorant comments like those.

I am sorry to be harsh but I am a bit fed up reading these kind of comments too...

Cheers anyway from Bangalore!

:cheers:

[Già]

[COLOR=black]Unfortunately we cannot say the same for southern Italy… Why don’t you guys use the European funds as they very well do in Spain? Is it the high level of corruption, the mafia or you just don’t have any projects where to invest these European funds that Italy equally needs?


Both reasons.......!! :mad2:

[Bitxofo]

New photos, by Indautxu:
;)
Fotos de varios viajes en estos últimos meses ( un poco cutres, hechas con prisa, pero lo que importa es el documento, oyes)


Camp de Tarragona, primeros S103 que diviso de cerca...


http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3998/cimg0016mm8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8742/cimg0017uv4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3116/cimg0018mw3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5936/cimg0171lk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8244/cimg0173zx6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)






Ese día (como muchos otros) mi Ave de las 08.05 para Madrid va en doble composición.

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/9445/cimg0226xs6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/144/cimg0227ss1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




A ver, aver.... déjame contar.... uno, dos, ...cinco! Cinco Aves posando (bueno, sus morros, claro)


http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/2606/cimg0230wg2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9674/cimg0231ef2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




Juegos de señales de salida lado Madrid.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5689/cimg0232uu4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6651/cimg0237ge1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


...y señales lado Barcelona...

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/7949/cimg0168ht2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


...haz de vías lado Barcelona que el túnel enguye...


http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/8437/cimg0169aj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




Qué monos, los dos posando a ver quién tiene más morro... (dime tú cosa rica...) (con baba incorporada)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5607/cimg0235wm7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)




Y en la capital del Imperio...... ferroviario..

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/5580/cimg0020eq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/9372/cimg0022hz0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
:drool:

[growingup]

wow! great pics Indautxu! and great post Bitxofo! :lol: :)

[sdf11]

Another videos by my self, arriving at Camp de tarragona station, with 6 ave's :nuts: :

1 Pato in double composition
2 Patos in single composition
1 Velaro e in double composition

92lGCUuZ6bE

0DutUVfCWdw


:cheers:

[Bitxofo]

^^Impressive!
:eek::eek:
THX!!
:bowtie:

[SkyLerm]

Wooow thx for sharing it mate :drool:

[amagaldu]

veeery nice video, sdf11.. :yes:

btw, about one of the most commented topics on this thread, I was listening to the bbc europe news and they told about todays new almston speed record and of course they mentioned germany and japan and maglev and china and even talked about a hypothetical hsl between SF and LA but they didn´t use the word spain one single time.. :lol:

[poponoso]

Amazing development that has carried out the spanish high speed network; an example for the rest of the countries. I hope my country could develop such an impressive infrastructure... Let's see...

[Napo]

[QUOTE=Kika;12403011]Unfortunately we cannot say the same for southern Italy… Why don’t you guys use the European funds as they very well do in Spain? Is it the high level of corruption, the mafia or you just don’t have any projects where to invest these European funds that Italy equally needs? It's a real pity because many areas and not only in the south are desperately crying for investments in infrastructures and many other areas. Spain nowadays has definitely nothing to envy to Italy in those aspects…

By the way, Spain is catching up quickly on Italy in all aspects such as the HDI (Human Development Index) that is probably the best indicator on how a country is developed or not and the best in terms of quality of life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Top_thirty_countries_.28HDI_range_from_0.965_down_to_0.885.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Top_thirty_countries_.28HDI_range_from_0.965_down_to_0.885.29). Spain is seen to take over Italy by next year and this is by far not just because of these European funds which very much helped the country but should that for sure but should not hide the fact that Spain is economically growing at a quite faster rate than other Western European countries driven mainly by its high internal consumption. I think envy and jealousy or maybe even ignorance make some people writing or saying ignorant comments like those.
QUOTE]

I am surprised for what you have written. You have denigrated my country, Italy, for no reason. Italy does not have nothing to envy Spain. Italy, unlike Spain, has firms known all over the world: Ferrari, AlfaRomeo, Maserati, Dolce&Gabbana, Valentino, Versace, Armani, Bulgari, Lamborghini etc… and great companies (unlike Spain): STM (world third constructor of microchip), AgustaWestland (world major productor of helicopters), ENEL (one of the major electricity giants of the world, that it has acquired the Spanish ENDESA :yes: ), ENI (world sixt oil company), Unicredit (third largest bank in Europe) FIAT (one of the world largest cars manufacturers).....and many others.

GDP in 2006 (CIA WORLD FACTBOOK)
Italy: $1.780 trillion
Spain: $1.07 trillion

ps: I love Spain and the spanish, and I am happy for its economic development :) . I'm sorry for have interrupted your conversation.

[TohrAlkimista]

I am surprised for what you have written. You have denigrated my country, Italy, for no reason. Italy does not have nothing to envy Spain. Italy, unlike Spain, has firms known all over the world: Ferrari, AlfaRomeo, Maserati, Dolce&Gabbana, Valentino, Versace, Armani, Bulgari, Lamborghini etc… and great companies (unlike Spain): STM (world third constructor of microchip), AgustaWestland (world major productor of helicopters), ENEL (one of the major electricity giants of the world, that it has acquired the Spanish ENDESA :yes: ), ENI (world sixt oil company), Unicredit (third largest bank in Europe) FIAT (one of the world largest cars manufacturers).....and many others.

GDP in 2006 (CIA WORLD FACTBOOK)
Italy: $1.780 trillion
Spain: $1.07 trillion

ps: I love Spain and the spanish, and I am happy for its economic development :) . I'm sorry for have interrupted your conversation.

Napo you really don't need to answer to such ignorant people who wrote these things, you don't need to list italian companies...that's better maintain those to their convictions...:cheers:

[Skylandman]

Ok guys, can we just now stick back to HST and HSL in Spain, or is out there any other italian willing to post here maps of his country train network, pictures or listing italians brands?

Don´t you have an italian forum for those kind of issues?
If you don´t feel in the mood of talking about that stuff in your own local forum, just press the "create a new thread" link in this subforum and go all for it, but keep this thread clean please.

[frozen]

By the way, Spain is catching up quickly on Italy in all aspects such as the HDI (Human Development Index) that is probably the best indicator on how a country is developed or not and the best in terms of quality of life [COLOR=purple]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Top_thirty_countries_.28HDI_range_from_0.965_down_to_0.885.29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index#Top_thirty_countries_.28HDI_range_from_0.965_down_to_0.885.29). Spain is seen to take over Italy by next year and this is by far not just because of these European funds which very much helped the country but should that for sure but should not hide the fact that Spain is economically growing at a quite faster rate than other Western European countries driven mainly by its high internal consumption. I think envy and jealousy or maybe even ignorance make some people writing or saying ignorant comments like those.
QUOTE]

I am surprised for what you have written. You have denigrated my country, Italy, for no reason. Italy does not have nothing to envy Spain. Italy, unlike Spain, has firms known all over the world: Ferrari, AlfaRomeo, Maserati, Dolce&Gabbana, Valentino, Versace, Armani, Bulgari, Lamborghini etc… and great companies (unlike Spain): STM (world third constructor of microchip), AgustaWestland (world major productor of helicopters), ENEL (one of the major electricity giants of the world, that it has acquired the Spanish ENDESA :yes: ), ENI (world sixt oil company), Unicredit (third largest bank in Europe) FIAT (one of the world largest cars manufacturers).....and many others.

GDP in 2006 (CIA WORLD FACTBOOK)
Italy: $1.780 trillion
Spain: $1.07 trillion

ps: I love Spain and the spanish, and I am happy for its economic development :) . I'm sorry for have interrupted your conversation.

Ignorance is dared ;)

Italy 13 million + than Spain ;)


Well maybe ZARA (his spanish owner is 8 person richest in the world) one ,or the first mark in clothes in all continents, REPSOL (9th company of petrol), SANTANDER BANK (have the third bank in UK and the most important bank in south america:mexico,argentina,...); Ferrovial (contruction company with which has british airports) IBERDROLA: bought this year Scottish electricity company and is the first electrical company in renewable energy in the world;
TELEFONICA one of the ten most important companies of telecommunication in the world; INDRA; BBVA (one of the most important banks of whole america, it became this year one of the most important banks of the south of USA), ENDESA (which it was bought by italian ENEL and Spanish ACCIONA. The spanish ACCIONA will have one action more than ENEL so it will decide ;) )

The situation of spanish companies compared in 5 years have nothing to do. They are strengthen faster....
The spanish companies and our economy it's burning:

España es el tercer país que más dinero mueve en opas y fusiones

Este tipo de operaciones alcanzaron el pasado año un importe de 190.000
millones

En el 2006 registró una cifra récord, sólo superada por EE.UU. y el Reino Unido

Opa es el término de moda en la Bolsa española. Y no sólo porque estas operaciones hayan florecido como nunca en los últimos meses, sino también porque, según todas las previsiones, seguirán dando mucho que hablar a lo largo de todo el año, un ejercicio en el que muchos aseguran que podría superarse el récord alcanzado en el 2006. El año pasado, las fusiones y adquisiciones empresariales movieron en España 190.000 millones de euros. Esta histórica cifra situó al español como el tercer mercado más activo del mundo, sólo por detrás de Estados Unidos y el Reino Unido.

Los movimientos registrados en el sector energético, en el que se fraguaron algunas de las mayores operaciones del año, como la opa lanzada por la alemana E.On sobre Endesa o la oferta de Iberdrola por Scottish Power, tuvieron mucho que ver en la consecución de este hito. No en vano, el importe de las fusiones y adquisiciones protagonizadas por las empresas energéticas acaparó casi la mitad del total, con 82.773 millones, según un informe elaborado por el grupo de servicios financiero Atlas Capital.

En total, las compañías españolas realizaron compras en el extranjero por valor de 113.149 millones de euros, casi un 60% más que en el 2005.

Batiendo marcas

A nivel mundial, el volumen de estas operaciones corporativas se acercó a los tres billones de euros, un importe que supuso pulverizar el máximo anterior, establecido en el 2000, cuando, en plena burbuja tecnológica, las compañías se lanzaron a una frenética carrera de compras.

Los analistas lo tienen claro: el ejercicio en curso seguirá siendo prolífico en este tipo de transacciones. La reforma de la ley de opas, la favorable coyuntura económica y el nuevo marco fiscal lo harán posible. En sentido, recuerdan que las consolidaciones sectoriales están a la orden del día en toda Europa. La de los grupos energéticos ya ha arrancado; la de las aerolíneas y la de las compañías tabaqueras está a punto de fructificar, y la del sector bancario se está haciendo esperar, pero acabará llegando.

Quinielas

En las quinielas sobre los candidatos a recibir ofertas figuran nombres como Bankinter, NH Hoteles, Unión Fenosa o BBVA; mientras que los nombres que más suenan para protagonizar nuevas compras dentro y fuera de las fronteras españolas son los de Abertis, Gas Natural o Altadis.

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/se_economia/noticia.jsp?CAT=108&TEXTO=5682670


Anyway, it is a high speed railway post, so please dont provoke here :ohno: . You can see how marvellous high speed railways we have in Spain, i hope Italy could contruct them too.

[gincan]

Jeeezzzz stop the flaming!!!

This is a thread about Spanish Highspeed Rail, NOT what country has what and who's the mac. I come to this thread to see construction photos from Spain, NOT to read about Italy or Italian Trains or Italian brands, if you want to post about Italy start a NEW tread in a oftopic forum or if you want to post about Italian Trains start a tread about that and post pictures but NOT here.

MODS or ADIMS please delete all oftopic posts in this thread, or lock it cause now it is mearly a flame thread.

[Napo]

Ignorance is dared ;)

Italy 13 million + than Spain ;)


Well maybe ZARA (his spanish owner is 8 person richest in the world) one ,or the first mark in clothes in all continents, REPSOL (9th company of petrol), SANTANDER BANK (have the third bank in UK and the most important bank in south america:mexico,argentina,...); Ferrovial (contruction company with which has british airports) IBERDROLA: bought this year Scottish electricity company and is the first electrical company in renewable energy in the world;
TELEFONICA one of the ten most important companies of telecommunication in the world; INDRA; BBVA (one of the most important banks of whole america, it became this year one of the most important banks of the south of USA), ENDESA (which it was bought by italian ENEL and Spanish ACCIONA. The spanish ACCIONA will have one action more than ENEL so it will decide ;) )

The situation of spanish companies compared in 5 years have nothing to do. They are strengthen faster....
The spanish companies and our economy it's burning:




Anyway, it is a high speed railway post, so please dont provoke here :ohno: . You can see how marvellous high speed railways we have in Spain, i hope Italy could contruct them too.


Yes yes, Spain is the most developped and richest country in the world, the spanish companies are the biggest on the planet, and spanish trains are the better in Europe. Ok?
But this doesn't mean that you can insult my country. You must be more modest, and you must have more respect for the others countries, many of which are more developped, more important, and richer than Spain.
This thread is called "new HSL in Spain", no "Spain vs Italy" or "Spain vs Germany" or "Spain vs England". If you want to say these things open a new thread:"Spain, the better country in the world".
I hope that this (Off Topic) dicussion ends now.

Saludos a todos amigos espanoles :wave:

[sdf11]

Ignorance is dared ;)

Italy 13 million + than Spain ;)


Well maybe ZARA (his spanish owner is 8 person richest in the world) one ,or the first mark in clothes in all continents, REPSOL (9th company of petrol), SANTANDER BANK (have the third bank in UK and the most important bank in south america:mexico,argentina,...); Ferrovial (contruction company with which has british airports) IBERDROLA: bought this year Scottish electricity company and is the first electrical company in renewable energy in the world;
TELEFONICA one of the ten most important companies of telecommunication in the world; INDRA; BBVA (one of the most important banks of whole america, it became this year one of the most important banks of the south of USA), ENDESA (which it was bought by italian ENEL and Spanish ACCIONA. The spanish ACCIONA will have one action more than ENEL so it will decide ;) )

The situation of spanish companies compared in 5 years have nothing to do. They are strengthen faster....
The spanish companies and our economy it's burning:


Anyway, it is a high speed railway post, so please dont provoke here :ohno: . You can see how marvellous high speed railways we have in Spain, i hope Italy could contruct them too.


Only a little things: Santander bank is the major bank in the EuroZone, and telefonica the third largest telecomunications in the World, Iberdrola when finish to bought Scottish will be the third largest energy in Europe.

Of course that Italy now it's more powerful than spain, but you can't say that Spain is poorer that our country beacause I think that the quality of life in our city's are better than you.

I can't understand why all the "old" powerful countries in Europe (France, Italy...) want to remember to Spain that is poorer that them...

The time, will say all...

[frozen]

Yes yes, Spain is the most developped and richest country in the world, the spanish companies are the biggest on the planet, and spanish trains are the better in Europe. Ok?
But this doesn't mean that you can insult my country. You must be more modest, and you must have more respect for the others countries, many of which are more developped, more important, and richer than Spain.
This thread is called "new HSL in Spain", no "Spain vs Italy" or "Spain vs Germany" or "Spain vs England". If you want to say these things open a new thread:"Spain, the better country in the world".
I hope that this (Off Topic) dicussion ends now.

Saludos a todos amigos espanoles :wave:

:nuts: :nuts: Can't understand anything... you came here just to provoke, so please, dont give advises. If you want to talk about Spanish HSL, nice. If not, go away and don't troll the thread ;)

[Falcon83]

According to Spanish president Spain will be the first country in number of High speed reilway in the world in 2010.



...and the Italians are going to give you the electricity to make it work...

[sdf11]

^^

Congratulations!! :ohno:

[Già]

Of course that Italy now it's more powerful than spain, but you can't say that Spain is poorer that our country beacause I think that the quality of life in our city's are better than you.

I can't understand why all the "old" powerful countries in Europe (France, Italy...) want to remember to Spain that is poorer that them...

The time, will say all...

Quote Quote Quote

[Già]

...and the Italians are going to give you the electricity to make it work...

Stupido e infantile

[growingup]

Am I wrong or the title of the post isn't "Spain: Economic Facts and Comparaison with Italian's Economy and its Worldwide Brands". I might be getting blind lately...
Let's start with "Napo", a modesty example for us all, users of SSC:
Spain is really developing? But late. In the rest of Europe the first high velocity lines were constructed 30 years ago. The first european high speed line have been the "Direttissima" Rome-Florenze, in Italy. You will end to them alone in 2020 :lol: .
Who started the discussion in here? What happened is that Spanish forumers replied to your post and they showed how wrong you were. But I'll repeat again what they said before. 30 years ago, only the French (in Europe) had a full high speed line set up and running between Paris and Lyon in 1981 with its world famous TGV with top speeds of 300Km/h. What you had was a TAV line whose construction began in 1970 and only a FIRST STAGE was opened back in 1978. Its construction ended finally in 1991. It's average was 206Km/h and it tops 250Km/h. Spain was JUST one year behind you, since our firt truly HSL opened in april 1992 between Madrid and Seville with speeds as high as 300Km/h and larger than Roma-Florence one.
The Italian High Speed train is the ETR500 (built in Italy by an Italian company, AnsaldoBreda, with technologies developed in Italy, not like in Spain, whose high velocity trains are constructed by French (Alstom) and German(Siemens) companies, with French and German technologies, not spanish.)
While our first HST were based on French technolgies, they were modified for Spanish needs and they were constructed in Spain. I guess you didn't know that. To give facts and not to leave just words here without facts, I'll leave an ALSTOM document that supports my post. Here's the LINK (http://www.transport.alstom.com/_eLibrary/brochure/upload_44220.pdf).
Have you ever heard about Talgo or CAF, both of them Spanish? You said you did, but I suppose you didn't thought about them when you wrote that statement above.
Talgo is best known for a design of articulated railway passenger cars in which the wheels are mounted in pairs, but not joined by an axle, and being between rather than underneath the individual coaches. Another feature of the design is the suspension, which allows the vehicle to passively tilt into curves, aiding passenger comfort.
The first successful European tilting train designs were imagined by Talgo, developed in the 1970s as a lightweight, fast train using passive tilt, but the first commercial service of these tilting trains really appeared in the beginning of the eighties, with the Canadian Turbo-Train as a second generation of TALGO. The TALGO is still in production in its 21st generation. TALGO trains are in service in various parts of Europe, and built under licence in Latin America and Asia. In North America, Amtrak uses TALGO trainsets in its Cascades service in the US Northwest, having earlier experimented with them in the Northeast Corridor.
Talgo also introduced Variable Gauge Axles as a need to change the gauge between the Spanish and French borders. It has been used in other places such as China, Russia and Kazakhstan.
Talgo history is full of achievements and has entered recently the HST market with its Talgo 350, designed for a top speed of 330Km/h. It is one of the fastes trains on commercial use around the world and in tests, it reached 368Km/h on spanish tracks with an usual commercial composition and without too much hassle. As an interesting note, Talgo Pendular passenger cars reached an atonishing speed of 500Km/h in a Test Bank in Switzerland back in 1990, very similar to its TGV counterpart.
Spanish High Speed fleet includes some different types of trains, but mainly Spanish developed ones as you can see here: 18 units S-100 (Alstom), 6 units S-101 (Alstom), 16 (30 U/C) units S-102 (Talgo/Bombardier 350), 16 (10 U/C) S-103 (Siemens Velaro), 20 units S-104 (CAF/Alstom), 12 unit S-120 (CAF/Alstom), 26 units S-130 (Talgo/Bombardier)... not to carry on.
In term of HSLs, Spain has already +1000 Km on service (+300Km/h) of them. I believe, and I've made a deep research, that's already larger than the Italian one, if you, Napo, insist in compairing our HSLs system. Our goverment intends to have built and on service 2230Km of them in 2010; and in 2020, 7000Km. The government and its opposition are aware of how important these developments are as Spanish society see "the arrival" of the AVE to their city as a sign of progress. In fact, the government invested another 800 million € for the AVE last 30/3/2007.
Yes yes, Spain is the most developped and richest country in the world, the spanish companies are the biggest on the planet, and spanish trains are the better in Europe. Ok?
But this doesn't mean that you can insult my country. You must be more modest, and you must have more respect for the others countries, many of which are more developped, more important, and richer than Spain.
This thread is called "new HSL in Spain", no "Spain vs Italy" or "Spain vs Germany" or "Spain vs England". If you want to say these things open a new thread:"Spain, the better country in the world".
I hope that this (Off Topic) dicussion ends now.

Saludos a todos amigos espanoles :wave:
You cannot say we started these "insults". You made a post arguing that Spanish companies are not known worldwide, we answered you. You said Spain was not developing fast, we gave you facts.
We didn't "denigrate" anyone here. You cannot say Spanish companies are not known or that Spain is developing lately in regards with HST or HSL and saying that this disccussion is ended without letting the other part involved to answer you back.
Sdf11 gave you some data, so did frozen and so will I again.
Spain is not the most developed country, neither the richest or the most important, but you cannot "take away" the one we have.
Spanish companies ARE known worldwide... Telefonica, third largest communication group in the whole world, just behind Veizon and NTT Docomo; Repsol, one of the biggest petrol enterprises in the world; BSCH, the largest bank in Europe and Latin America; BBVA, another bank building its own empire in south-eastern USA -where it's already the largest bank- and Latin America and among the biggest ones in the world.
Spanish construction companies lead the run: Acciona, ACS, FCC, OHL, Ferrovial, Sacyr-Vallehermoso... Six of the 10 top transportation concession companies are based in Spain, constructing and/or managing about 40 percent of all major transportation concessions in the world. Spanish companies are taking their knowledge and experience into an increasing number of markets each year. Indra is the leading Information Technology and Defense Systems company. A third of the world’s air traffic is managed by countries that use systems developed by Indra and ticketing systems developed for underground railway systems, such as those in Madrid, Barcelona, Paris, Shanghai, Athens and Santiago de Chile are developed by Indra too.
ZARA and all its other stores: Pull & Bear, Massimo Dutti, Bershka and Stradivarius (INDITEX), group which have stores all around the globe. Spanish fashion designers are also worldwide known as Manolo Blahnik (That famous shoes which make Hollywood actress go mad), Victorio & Lucchino, Roberto Verino, Adolfo Domínguez, Antonio Miró, Agatha Ruiz de la Prada, Pura López... and many other enterprises related to the clothing world such as El Corte Inglés, Loewe, Camper, Mango, Bershka or Pronovias.
Energy Utilities such as Iberdrola, who its expanding really fast and it's the biggest worldwide in terms of renewable energy, Gas Natural or the already mentioned Acciona. Acciona WILL CONTROL Endesa, Spanish largest utility, not Enel. Acciona will have 50.01 of its stakes and ENEL 49.99.
To give you more economical facts Spanish market is the third most active one just behind USA and UK.
This is the last time I'm going to talk about the Spanish economy in this thread. It seems that any post a Spanish forumer does becomes a debate about our economy. We arent the center of the world, we know it, but we are not undeveloped and our enterprises AREN'T NOT known.
This post was about HSL and has become a battle between Spain and Italy. I believe no Spanish forumer started this battle. Anyway as many others said many times... time will say...
"Our convictions" are to learn from what others do, make it better if is possible, and apply it to our needs. We learned from the TGV, a great HST and HSL system with no rival right now.
By the way, Spanish GDP(2005) is 1,236 Trillion $ (IFM) or 1,115 Trillion $ (World Bank)

[Falcon83]

Stupido e infantile

è la verità, babbeo.

[Cicerón]

We were talking about a high speed line, weren't we?

[Bitxofo]

STOP WiTH THAT!!
>(
You are childish.
:sleepy:
This thread is for High Speed Trains in Spain.
;)

[Karakuri]

It will not matter how hard Spain's effort is to develop the country. Others will say that thanks to "their" money Spain is able to built infrastructure like the HSL. No matter how many times we explain that Spain's poorest regions receive the money from the European Union. And that the greatest part of the projects ar fund by the spanish gouvernment and several enterprises...

But that is not their real problem. They are just jalous about the fact that Spain will be a richer country than theirs. When they take a look to the images of new HSL-lines. they look back to the past when Spain was a poor country and when Spaniards always had to look up to the others.
Time is changing and Spain is a devolopped country like France, UK, germany, Italy and The Netherlands.

There's nothing wrong there and those countries are wonderfull in their specific way! Spain has it's bad and good things, like any other country.
This threat is talking about Spanish HSL. If you think it's crap, don't post your crap, because in Spain they allready know that you think In Spain "Things can't be better than in nothern Europe".

Who are you talking about? Which country?
IMO all those self pride arguments are pityful.One can be proud of his country without bashing others. Besides claiming that one's country will have the longest HSL network in the world means what? Did the guy who said that took part in any way in that? Is it thanks to him? I think not.
The less we have, the more we talk. It's like posting pictures of fancy cars in your city (see Dubai thread)...like if they're yours :ohno: ! Better took the Japanese example: I never heard anybody there who was squirting talking about his country beeing the best, his Maglev beeing the fastest, his Tokyo beeing the richest, his Electronic industry beeing the most powerful, or any shit like that.
Those who say Spain is a poor country should travel a little, and those saying crap like "HSL in my country do 20km/h faster than in yours" may be engineers in this sector(if not, they should shut their trap).

[Cicerón]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Stop_sign_MUTCD.svg/600px-Stop_sign_MUTCD.svg

[Xusein]

Seeing these high-speed developments...makes me envious.

The US has fallen so behind in High-speed rail, that I don't think we will ever catch up.

[picassoborseli]

To stop the discussion, plese post some pics and more details about Spanish HSL in stead of posting how great each country is!


Some pictures of Spanish High Speed trains:

http://67.15.20.45/images/images2/r/rp120alvia.jpg.72196.jpg

The Euromed Trains:
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/100_1-Euromed/Oropesa/Euromed-0721.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/100_1-Euromed/Oropesa/Euromed-0720.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/100_1-Euromed/Oropesa/87-euromed.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/100_1-Euromed/Oropesa/289-Euromed.jpg

AVE 100:
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/100-AVE/Zaragoza/D-1514-03.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/100-AVE/Zaragoza/dblave17.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/100-AVE/Zaragoza/dblave18.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/100-AVE/Lleida-Lerida/AVE_100.018_Lleida_1.jpg

The Old Ave train & The Duck ("pato")
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/102-Talgo350/Madrid/AVE-102_010%2B100_009_1.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/es/electric/emu/100-AVE/Madrid/AVE-102_010_Atocha_3.jpg

[amagaldu]

I don´t mind if I repeat my words..:

veery nice pics picassoborseli..!! :nuts:

thanks..!! :)

[growingup]

AVE's birthday: 15 years of High Speed in Spain.
- By 2010, Spain will be the country with the largest High Speed network.
- Connections from La Meseta to Galicia and Asturias are still pending.
El Mundo
Madrid- Seville High Speed Line (HSL), the first in Spain to fulfill those characteristics, began service 15 years ago this saturday. 15 years in which Renfe's fastest train has transported more than 81 million passengers.
Expo '92 could not take away the prominence AVE was worth. Its service, its comfort, and, of course, its speed, has turned it to be passengers' best ally. Today, 15 years ago, nobody could imagine the importance of this railway service. For instance, more than a half of all passengers who used the line, did it in direct services between Madrid and Seville.
As all beginnings, it went little by little. Firstly, just 6 daily trains, then 10, 11, 12, and until the 20 it includes now. Besides, there are services every thirty minutes in rush hours and weekends. Its demand has experienced and ongoing increase in passengers, being diffucult to get a ticket without booking.
Just two hours and a half to bring togheter two cities that were forced to be joined by plane or N-IV highway. It made dissapear long and tiring taffic jams, waiting hours at the airports and made easy a "travelling-worker's life".
Later on, service started in Madrid-Toledo, Madrid-Zaragoza-Huesca and Madrid-Zaragoza-LLeida-Camp de Tarragona lines. This year new stretches will be opened such as Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona, Córdoba-Málaga and Madrid-Valladolid, giving the whole network a total length of 1230 kilometers. But this doesn't stop here. By 2010, Spain will have turned to be the country with the largest Hish Speed network in the world, with 2230Km; surpassing Japan, which will have 2090Km, and France, with will possess 1893Km.
Although AVE has a brigth short-term future, with a 2007 full of lines and trains inaugurations, there are still pending tasks,as the connections with north-western Spain, Galicia and Asturias, which are in informative study; or the Basque "Y".
However, it seems AVE is going to recover in the next years all the building and expanding spirit it lost in 1992, when Madrid-Seville line's 471Km joined the cities in just two hours and a half.
--------
To celebrate it, Renfe is exposing its new HSTs in Madrid and Seville. These are the S-102(Talgo 350), S-103(Siemens Velaro E) and S-130(Talgo), a variable gauge train that will link Madrid with nort-western Spain until HSLs in those places are constructed, using from Valladolid to Madrid the HSL which will be opened later on this year; as it did with Barcelona with the S-120(CAF ATPRD S-120) and Málaga with the Talgo 200. The first Ave's, the French Alstom S-100 are under reforms as a result of a new half-life programme, being the first units reformed exposed during this weekend.
Exteriors:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9076/mig013377bxd5.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1336/mig013378blv1.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8135/mig013412bqq3.jpg
Clase Club:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/342/mig013380bpp3.jpg
Clase Preferente:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4481/mig013381bqn9.jpg
Clase Turista:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1994/mig013383bhe5.jpg
S-102:
http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5126/mig013411bvt7.jpg
S-103:
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2357/mig013401bhj0.jpg
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2393/mig013392byh6.jpg
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9924/mig013396bzz7.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5075/mig013400bzg3.jpg
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6041/mig013397bqf6.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6045/mig013394bcm7.jpg
S-130:
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9978/mig013385bzj8.jpg

[pacman_1905]

Spain just continues to amaze me on how well and how quickly it builds its infrastructure. The HSL's is a classic example of this. I just wish that our governments in Australia look at how Spain do it. Here we seem to spend so much on studies, studies and more studies but never get anything done. A good example is the NSW Govt's attempt to build a connection link between the North Shore line and the North Western line within its CityRail network, a relatively small distance compared to what they do in Spain, and it costing us so many billions of dollars and is around 6-7 years behind schedule....

Well done Spain...perhaps some of your larger construction companies could look at Australia for investments. The NSW govt as well as some other state govt's are in favour of Public-Private partnerships which allow them to build infrastructure projects much quicker than if the govt's fund it themselves...

Again well done...

[Paulo2004]

Nice new railway lines.

[Bitxofo]

15 years of high speed trains in Spain: since 20/4/1992.
:okay:

[amagaldu]

S-102:
http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5126/mig013411bvt7.jpg
[IMG]

the duck..

unique.. :banana:

[sdf11]

Todo eso estaba en atocha
:nuts: :nuts:
Simplemente para correrse...
que flota!!!
:drool: :drool:

madre mi que suerte tenemos...

[forrestcat]

Magnificent!!!

Post more pics of the Velaro please.

Hope Malaysia gets the Velaro to run on its planned KL-S'pore HSL.

[Stifler]

Magnificent!!!

Post more pics of the Velaro please.

Hope Malaysia gets the Velaro to run on its planned KL-S'pore HSL.
You have lots of them in this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=445711). Pic made by neuromancer, Carretero and TintinMadrid in Puerta de Atocha station.


http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7195/velaro054lt0.jpg

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6645/velaro048an6.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7633/velaro051nv1.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1876/velaro047ef1.jpg

Interior

Turist class
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7685/velaro023vb6.jpg

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3267/velaro016mb6.jpg

Preferent class
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5323/velaro033go2.jpg

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/7387/velaro035pn1.jpg

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/2856/velaro027nh0.jpg

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9766/velaro042ss7.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4563/velaro044xp4.jpg

[growingup]

First of all, I have to say thanks and congratulations to TintinMadrid, a Spanish forumer who delights us with continious updates of works progress done in Madrid-Valladolid HSL/LAV, teaching us what elements are used in a HSL construction, what's their purpose, and how the works are performed; as well as other Spanish forumers (Spanish forum is a very active one) who contribute giving pictures and lessons of all major works in Spain. As the post contains some technical vocabulary I am not able to translate, I'll just leave his photos as a photographic testimony.
I'll concentrate on Guadarrama's Tunnel:
Guadarrama’s tunnel is the largest railway tunnel built in Spain, the fourth in Europe and the fifth worldwide. It is formed by two parallel tubes, one for each direction. Started in 2002, its opening is due to 2007. In its construction, occasionally, have taken part more than 4000 workers simultaneously. It is the biggest engineering work carried out in Spain.
This infrastructure goes through Sierra de Guadarrama, starting in Miraflores de la Sierra (Madrid) local term, with an elevation of 998m above sea and reaching a maximum elevation of 1200m, with a 1’5% slope, and descending again to an elevation of 1114m, near the city of Segovia. The maximum vault’s cover takes place under Pico de Peñalara, with a height of 2430m.
Boring machines have extracted 4 million cubic meters from the tubes. Each one has a length of 28Km and a diameter of 8,5m, with a separation between tunnels of 30m. It will have emergency galleries joining both tubes every 250m, a big ironclad room for 1200 people in the middle of the tubes to be used in case of emergency; and reversible fans in order to blow air into the tube if a fire broke out. The design has taken into consideration reaching high speeds (350Km/h) without compromising the structure.
They will form part of the HSL Madrid-Segovia-Valladolid. Valladolid will be 50 minutes far away from Madrid, and Segovia just 20 minutes from Madrid. Nevertheless, the tunnel construction is also essential for HSR communications with Asturias, Cantabria, Galicia, Basque country, and finally, the connection with south-western France.

LAV/AVE Madrid-Segovia-Valladolid:
Túneles de Guadarrama

Estado de las obras a 23 de abril de 2007

Una de las cosas que aún nos faltaban por ver en estos hilos eran los túneles de Guadarrama, la clave de bóveda de toda esta nueva infraestructura y un nuevo acceso que va a beneficiar a todas las relaciones ferroviarias del centro de España con la cornisa cantábrica y la meseta norte.

Nada más llegar y antes de bajar a la traza ya queda claro que se trata de una obra de enorme envergadura:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR83.jpg

Y las grandes bocas de los dos tubos de los que constan los túneles nos dan la bienvenida:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR84.jpg

Volveremos a ellas más tarde. En su camino hacia el norte desde Madrid la línea atraviesa el cerro de San Pedro con 2 grandes túneles y, sin solución de continuidad, pasa sobre los arroyos del Valle y del Mojón a través de un espectacular viaducto para acceder al PAET de Miraflores y, como último obstáculo antes de alcanzar la sierra de Guadarrama, un nuevo viaducto: Majalahita.

Este viaducto tiene su estribo norte a apenas un centenar de metros del inicio de los falsos túneles de las boca S de los túneles de Guadarrama, y ya presenta vía montada:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR75.jpg

Vía izquierda, con el PAET de Miraflores y el cerro de San Pedro al fondo y las cimentaciones de los postes de catenaria en la margen de la vía:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR78.jpg

En este punto se produce la transición entre vía provisional y definitiva:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR73.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR69.jpg

Se estaba soldando esta curiosa estructura, cuya utilidad desconozco:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR71.jpg

Como se ve, en esta pequeña fábrica trabajan una multitud de personas (las 24 horas del día, 365 días al año):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR72.jpg

Traviesas de transición de entrada a la playa de vías de los túneles:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR80.jpg

Tras las enormes grúas pórtico se empieza ya a deslumbrar la entrada a los túneles más largos de España, con más de 28 kilómetros:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR77.jpg

En esta foto podemos apreciar la zona de carga del hormigón necesario para las tareas de revestimiento de los túneles y las galerías de comunicación, labores que ahora están prácticamente finalizadas:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR68.jpg

Desde otra perspectiva:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR65.jpg

Ahora sí que estamos realmente cerca de la entrada a los túneles:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR67.jpg

Tirando un poco de zoom vemos ya claramente los falsos túneles que protegen la entrada al túnel, en avanzado estado de ejecución:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR62.jpg

Avanzando un poco más y girando la vista hacia Madrid, vemos la armadura de los falsos túneles:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR56.jpg

Ya refugiados bajo la estructura de hormigón, ya tenemos los túneles al alcance de la mano:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR54.jpg

En ese momento llegaba el tren con el cambio de turno:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR48.jpg

Y unos 25 obreros se dirigían a la caseta de seguridad para dejar allí sus EPI y su acreditación de seguridad, necesaria para entrar en el túnel:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR53.jpg

Tan de cerca, impresionan las dimensiones del túnel:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR52.jpg

Y sobre todas las cosas, me impresionaron los enormes ventiladores:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR43.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR38.jpg

Aquí, la manga que suministraría una corriente adicional de aire al tubo este en caso de ser necesario:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR42.jpg

Estos 2 obreros nos dan una medida de la escala de esta obra descomunal:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR39.jpg

Un par de fotos antes de que nos engulla el túnel:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR37.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMEXT/GDRRM-R23ABR41.jpg

Como os decía, estamos ya dentro del túnel (en la misma boca del lobo):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR35.jpg

Detalle de la dovela nº 1, la primera que colocó la tuneladora S del tubo occidental:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR36.jpg

Tras destrozar los plazos con ritmos de montaje de vía que casi han duplicado los previstos, la totalidad de la vía en placa está instalada en los túneles salvo unas escasas decenas de metros en las inmediaciones de la boca de los túneles. Precisamente, aquí tenemos las traviesas listas:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR32.jpg

Unos metros más allá la vía ya se encuentra montada, y al girar la vista hacia la salida del túnel esto es lo que se ve:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR34.jpg

Y como os decía, la vía aquí ya se encuentra instalada:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR31.jpg

Camino de Segovia y Valladolid:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR29.jpg

Detalle de la sujección del carril a la placa:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR26.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR6.jpg

Y aquí tenemos a las responsables de la milimétrica calibración de la vía en planta y alzado:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR30.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR3.jpg

Tras terminar con los trabajos de infraestructura, han dado comienzo los de instalaciones. Aquí, el primer cableado de iluminación:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR14.jpg

Y llegamos a una de las múltiples galerías de interconexión de ambos tubos:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR9.jpg

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR1.jpg

Las puertas son de acero macizo, de unos 30 centímetros de espesor y resistentes al fuego:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR13.jpg

Como veis, se han instalado ya unas enormes tuberías:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR11.jpg

Nos asomamos ahora al tubo este, que traza una suave curva hacia la izquierda para enfilar el pico de Peñalara, punto en el que los túneles alcanzan su máximo recubrimiento (992 metros):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR5.jpg

En esta foto, con un poco más de claridad, podemos observar esa plataforma que se levanta a la derecha de la vía y que acogerá parte de la fibra de señalización y comunicaciones y que será después cubierta para servir de andén a lo largo de la totalidad del túnel. Este andén permitiría en su momento desalojar a los pasajeros y conducirlos a las galerías de conexión, la sala de emergencia e incluso otro tren:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR27.jpg

Finalmente, aquí tenéis la vía por la que discurren los trenes de servicio de la obra. Su desmantelamiento parece que está siendo reconsiderado por parte de los técnicos:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR22.jpg

Y esto ha sido todo, os dejo con esta última foto del interior de esta obra espectacular que va a suponer un antes y un después en los desplazamientos ferroviarios del cuadrante N/NO de la península:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/23ABR07/GDRMINT/GDRRM-R23ABR8.jpg

AVE's birthday webpage is already on service. There are several videos, great pictures and some information about HSR in Spain. You can visit it on http://www.aniversarioave.com/

[Tintin]

^^ Here is a comprehensive article (http://ropdigital.ciccp.es/pdf/publico/2002/2002_octubre_3426_01.pdf) on the construction of this tunnel. It is written both in spanish and english.

[egonecron]

Oh my god!

[sdf11]

OMG!!

Thank you so much for your impressive work tintin!!

[growingup]

Wow, thanks TintinMadrid for posting such a document!. It offers a great insight view on the project. I'll add some other pics made by antoher great Spanish forumer, Neuromancer:
unas cuantas fotos más del interior de los túneles:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/Tuneles%20Guadarrama/IMG_8230_small.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/Tuneles%20Guadarrama/IMG_8233_small.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/Tuneles%20Guadarrama/IMG_8237_small2.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/Tuneles%20Guadarrama/IMG_8240_small.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/Tuneles%20Guadarrama/IMG_8241_small.jpg

Junto a la boca sur del túnel oeste concluye la vía en placa instalada hasta el momento.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/Tuneles%20Guadarrama/IMG_8246_small2.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/Tuneles%20Guadarrama/IMG_8248_small.jpg

Salida del túnel oeste con el falso túnel prolongación del mismo en fase de ejecución.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/Tuneles%20Guadarrama/IMG_8253_small.jpg

Neuromancer also got into the insides of an AVE S-100 power head, the Spanish TGV:
Interior cabeza tractora:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_104.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_103.jpg

[zergcerebrates]

Wow even more than Japan in 2010? WOW unbelievable!

[neuromancer]

More pics from the renfe exposition at Madrid Puerta de Atocha:

Con motivo de la celebración del decimoquinto aniversario de la puesta en marcha de la primera línea de alta velocidad entre Madrid y Sevilla el 21 de abril de 1992, renfe y adif realizaron unas jornadas de puertas abiertas los días 21 y 22 de abril pasados en la estación de Puerta de Atocha. Tuve la oportunidad de acercarme por allí el domingo y os pongo lo que pude sacar en la horita que pasé allí.

Estaban expuestos las unidades S-100, S102, S-103 y S-130.

S-130

Tractora 9 130 006 que forma parte del 130 003:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_119.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_118.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_117.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_116.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_115.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_114.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_113.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_112.jpg

[neuromancer]

More from de S-130:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_001.jpg

Detalle del pantógrafo:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_111.jpg

Bogies.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_110.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_109.jpg

Unión de coches y puerta de acceso:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_107.jpg

Detalle de indicador de destino y apertura de puerta.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_108.jpg

Interior coche, preferente:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_003.jpg

Comunicación entre coches:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_004.jpg

Cafetería:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_008.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_006.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_005.jpg

Coches turista:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_007.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_010.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_011.jpg

[neuromancer]

S-130 last ones:

La otra tractora:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_012.jpg

Algunos detalles:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_013.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_014.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_015.jpg

AVEs:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_016.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_017.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_018.jpg

[neuromancer]

Some Velaro pics, more on this thread http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=445711

S-103 Velaro

Por este pasaré algo más rápido ya que hay un hilo exclusivo con gran cantidad de fotos de mejor calidad.

Exterior:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_020.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_021.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_030.jpg

334 al fondo:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_035.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_036.jpg

Clase Club tras la cabina y sala de reuniones, no se si se había visto alguna foto con los teleindicadores encendidos:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_022.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_023.jpg

[neuromancer]

Club:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_024.jpg

Preferente:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_026.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_027.jpg

Controles de apertura y cierre de puertas:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_025.jpg

Cafetería:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_028.jpg

Puesto de interventor o información?:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_029.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_031.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_033.jpg

Puerta de acceso con S-102 al fondo.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_032.jpg

[neuromancer]

Talgo S-102 "Pato" or "Duck"

S-102

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_034.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_037.jpg

Turista:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_038.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_039.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_041.jpg

354 desde 102:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_040.jpg

Paso entre coches:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_042.jpg

Turista con mesita:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_043.jpg

[neuromancer]

Aseo:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_044.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_045.jpg

Puerta de acceso desde el interior:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_046.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_048.jpg

Más turista:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_047.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_049.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_051.jpg

Puesto de información

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_050.jpg

[neuromancer]

Cafetería:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_052.jpg

Atocha cercanías desde la cafetería:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_053.jpg

Cafetera para preferente y club:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_056.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_054.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_055.jpg

Preferente:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_057.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_058.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_062.jpg

[neuromancer]

Club:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_063.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_064.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_065.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_066.jpg

Sala reuniones Club:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_067.jpg

[neuromancer]

Exterior S-102:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_059.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_068.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_069.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_070.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_060.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_071.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_072.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/neuromancer_ssc/15%20years%20AVE/15yearsAVE_073.jpg

[bule]

Alora Tunnel
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1290/dsc00256du6.jpg
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/1736/dsc00253xu2.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2542/dsc00254oj6.jpg

Viaductos Arroyo Ancon
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4259/dsc00257zu6.jpg
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8273/dsc00251rr3.jpg
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1121/dsc00250tz7.jpg

Viaducto Arroyo de las PIEDRAS
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6382/dsc00248wa3.jpg
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9006/dsc00245yd4.jpg

Beautifull Valley of Alora
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/456/dsc00246vy7.jpg
Plataform Just before Abdalajis Tunnels ( 7.880 m.)
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4460/dsc00227mm2.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5425/dsc00226wv8.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5897/dsc00230pp6.jpg
Tunnels Abdalajis
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8855/dsc00234gi7.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6808/dsc00237rx6.jpg
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4161/dsc00242is3.jpg

[frozen]

Impressive pics! Thanks for sharing your pics, Neuromancer and Bule

[bule]

Junktion Cordoba-Sevilla.Cordoba-Málaga

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7978/dsc02075jh3.jpg
http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/8430/dsc02077vq8.jpg´
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9615/dsc02082hc7.jpg

Viaducto on Genal river
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3101/dsc02095yo2.jpg

Arriving to Puente Genil Station
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3402/dsc02806te0.jpg
Train Talgo Madrid-Málaga
http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/7361/dsc02807qz1.jpg
Puente-Genil Station
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4475/dsc02812lj6.jpg
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/2163/dsc02811hh4.jpg
Rail truks coming fromCordoba
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8936/dsc02780am8.jpg
Talgo to Málaga
http://img271.imageshack.us/img271/6185/dsc02809ma0.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9567/dsc02779dn0.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6232/dsc02781bg3.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6645/dsc02782qw2.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9607/dsc02796ym4.jpg

[Prestonian]

Beautiful! Thanks for the pics!

[growingup]

A great pic from Sanlucar-Playa:
De la vía 5 de Camp de Tarragona sale el tren 09888 con destino Madrid, formado por las ramas 04 y 16 de le serie 102. En la vía 4 vemos la rama 07 de la serie 103, y en el aire un avión que en breves instantes aterrizará en el cercano aeropuerto de Reus.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9513/mzccamp60hd6.jpg

El tren tardaría 26 minutos en llegar a Lérida. Para acceder a la autopista AP-7 (9,8 Km aproximadamente) necesité 40 minutos.

[sdf11]

A few videos by my self: all of these videos are recordered in the HSL Madrid-Barcelona, between Zaragoza Delicias Station and Lleida Pirineus Station.

Renfe ALVIA:

eefQqAGP6Nk

4Gnh0zLv1M4

d4mJhr5NarQ

Renfe AVE Alta Velocidad Española: (Spanish High Speed)

-yXnq4g-cI4

ZiyByGNdRSA

05z_UCSt1tQ


Bye :cheers:

[sdf11]

This morning at 6:30 the first Siemens velaro (renfe Ave S103) did the first commercial service between Madrid-Zaragoza-Camp de Tarragona.

Maybe in the next days we will have some photos about this beautiful train.

[sdf11]

En España, en el pasado mes de abril, con un tren serie 102 en doble y circulando a la velocidad máxima de 300 km/h se hizo el recorrido de Madrid Puerta de Atocha a Camp de Tarragona (por los by passes) en 1 hora y 57 minutos sin rebasar las velocidades máximas lo que supone una media de 267,12 km/h. El tiempo con que se prevé empezar la explotación de la línea de Madrid a Barcelona para los trenes sin paradas (y de momento a velocidad máxima de 300 km/h) es de 2 horas y 35 minutos es decir, a una media de 240,4 km/h.

El récord de los franceses está en:

263,3 km/h de media entre Lyon y St Exupéry que hay 289.6 kms, con topes de 320 km/h en 2005.


Por lo tanto es NUEVO RECORD MUNDIAL. Y encima con más mérito, sólo 300 km/h y durante 572 kms!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In English:

In Spain, in the last April, with a train series 102 in double composition and circulating to the maximum speed of 300 km/h did the travel between Madrid-Puerta de Atocha to Campo de Tarragona (for the by passes) in 1 hour and 57 minutes without the maximum speeds exceeded what supposes an average of 267,12 km/h. The time with which it is foreseen to begin the explotation(development) of the line of Madrid to Barcelona for the trains without stops (and at the moment to maximum speed of 300 km/h) is 2 hours and 35 minutes is to say, to an average of 240,4 km/h.
The record of the French rail is in:

263,3 km/h of average between(among) Lyons and St Exupéry that there are 289.6 kms, with ceilings of 320 km/h in 2005.


Therefore it is A NEW WORLD RECORD. And above with more merit, only 300 km/h and during 572 kms!!!


I don't know if it's correct, please, change some words if are incorrect

[sdf11]

Mañana, como ya sabeis, se estrenan los 103 en tres servicios por sentido entre Madrid y Camp de Tarragona, y para comprobar que todo funciona a la perfección, se han ido realizando varios viajes de pruebas durante las últimas semanas.

En dos de estos viajes ha ido personal de Renfe y Adif como viajeros y en uno de ellos, concretamente el pasado miércoles, tuve la oportunidad de viajar, por lo que os adjunto unas fotillos de dicho viaje de presentación. ¡Que las disfruteis!

Un saludo,
Javier Peña


Foto 1: 103.007 entrando en Zaragoza-Delicias.
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1345/103007delicias20060701ln7.jpg

Foto 2: 103.007 recién llegado a la estación de Camp de Tarragona.
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2862/103007campdetarragona20ow5.jpg

Fotos 3 y 4: Diversas fotos del 103.007 en Camp.
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2115/103007campdetarragona20kj9.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9003/103007campdetarragona20rx9.jpg

Foto 5: Foto de familia.
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/396/campdetarragona20060722xu4.jpg

:nuts: :nuts:

Fotos del interior del tren:

Clase Club:
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/7124/103007campdetarragona20th5.jpg

Clase Preferente:
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/6342/103007campdetarragona20cg1.jpg

Clase Turista:
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/7312/103007campdetarragona20yb5.jpg

Cafetería:
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6162/103007campdetarragona20dm1.jpg

:banana: :banana:

Thank you javi!!!

[growingup]

sdf11, Thanks! Great news, especially that new record! I've read comments about it in the spanish forum, but who is ths source and is it trustworthy?
---
sdf11, gracias! Geniales noticias, especialmente el nuevo record. He leído posts en el foro español acerca de ello pero no se ha dicho quien es la fuente de la informición. ¿Renfe?, ¿La misma ADIF?. Si el record es cierto, no dudes en ponerlo en el hilo de records que andará por ahí perdido en este mismo foro.
EDITO: Éste es el enlace a dicho hilo. Rail Records (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=463240)
Ya de paso añado esta pedazo de foto que he encontrado curioseando por aquí.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9479/avesdi9.jpg

[Bitxofo]

En España, en el pasado mes de abril, con un tren serie 102 en doble y circulando a la velocidad máxima de 300 km/h se hizo el recorrido de Madrid Puerta de Atocha a Camp de Tarragona (por los by passes) en 1 hora y 57 minutos sin rebasar las velocidades máximas lo que supone una media de 267,12 km/h. El tiempo con que se prevé empezar la explotación de la línea de Madrid a Barcelona para los trenes sin paradas (y de momento a velocidad máxima de 300 km/h) es de 2 horas y 35 minutos es decir, a una media de 240,4 km/h.

El récord de los franceses está en:

263,3 km/h de media entre Lyon y St Exupéry que hay 289.6 kms, con topes de 320 km/h en 2005.


Por lo tanto es NUEVO RECORD MUNDIAL. Y encima con más mérito, sólo 300 km/h y durante 572 kms!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In English:

In Spain, in the last April, with a train series 102 in double composition and circulating to the maximum speed of 300 km/h did the travel between Madrid-Puerta de Atocha to Campo de Tarragona (for the by passes) in 1 hour and 57 minutes without the maximum speeds exceeded what supposes an average of 267,12 km/h. The time with which it is foreseen to begin the explotation(development) of the line of Madrid to Barcelona for the trains without stops (and at the moment to maximum speed of 300 km/h) is 2 hours and 35 minutes is to say, to an average of 240,4 km/h.
The record of the French rail is in:

263,3 km/h of average between(among) Lyons and St Exupéry that there are 289.6 kms, with ceilings of 320 km/h in 2005.


Therefore it is A NEW WORLD RECORD. And above with more merit, only 300 km/h and during 572 kms!!!


I don't know if it's correct, please, change some words if are incorrect
Great news!!
:nocrook:

[Cicerón]

This post (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=10267514&postcount=182) by Tintin is really interesting. I recommend that you have a look. It's full of aerial pictures of the HSL Madrid-Valladolid.

Example:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/AEREAS%20SG-MZ/AEREASEGMTPZ27OCT19.jpg

[Reivajar]

En España, en el pasado mes de abril, con un tren serie 102 en doble y circulando a la velocidad máxima de 300 km/h se hizo el recorrido de Madrid Puerta de Atocha a Camp de Tarragona (por los by passes) en 1 hora y 57 minutos sin rebasar las velocidades máximas lo que supone una media de 267,12 km/h. El tiempo con que se prevé empezar la explotación de la línea de Madrid a Barcelona para los trenes sin paradas (y de momento a velocidad máxima de 300 km/h) es de 2 horas y 35 minutos es decir, a una media de 240,4 km/h.

El récord de los franceses está en:

263,3 km/h de media entre Lyon y St Exupéry que hay 289.6 kms, con topes de 320 km/h en 2005.


Por lo tanto es NUEVO RECORD MUNDIAL. Y encima con más mérito, sólo 300 km/h y durante 572 kms!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In English:

In Spain, in the last April, with a train series 102 in double composition and circulating to the maximum speed of 300 km/h did the travel between Madrid-Puerta de Atocha to Campo de Tarragona (for the by passes) in 1 hour and 57 minutes without the maximum speeds exceeded what supposes an average of 267,12 km/h. The time with which it is foreseen to begin the explotation(development) of the line of Madrid to Barcelona for the trains without stops (and at the moment to maximum speed of 300 km/h) is 2 hours and 35 minutes is to say, to an average of 240,4 km/h.
The record of the French rail is in:

263,3 km/h of average between(among) Lyons and St Exupéry that there are 289.6 kms, with ceilings of 320 km/h in 2005.


Therefore it is A NEW WORLD RECORD. And above with more merit, only 300 km/h and during 572 kms!!!


I don't know if it's correct, please, change some words if are incorrect


I'm not sure, but I think it isn't correct. A TGV unit has the record of average speed over long distance between Calais and Marseille (1067,2 km) in 3h 29min (an average speed of 306,4 kph).

[gincan]

2h 35min for Madrid-Barcelona is ok but it's alot slower than the original goal of 2h. Wonder if it will be able to compete with air traffic, though the market i huge with 5 million pax.

[Tintin]

^^ The original target set by Renfe was 2h30 minutes. With ERTMS II working at full capacity (mid/late 2008) trips could be reduced to just short of 2h15.

Nevertheless, as sdf11 said before, trips below the 150-minute barrier could be easily achieved even with a commercial speed of 300 kph.

[Falubaz]

2h 35min for Madrid-Barcelona is ok but it's alot slower than the original goal of 2h. Wonder if it will be able to compete with air traffic, though the market i huge with 5 million pax.

i'm sure the train with 2h35min is more than able to compete with planes. u have to remember, that travelling by plane u have to be at the airport at least about one hour befort start and then u have to make a little trip from city center to airport, what takes another 'few minutes'. even after arriving there is another trip from airport to the city. so every journey made by plane takes some 2 h of additional time to the real travel time. and trains usually have their stations in the city center without wasting your time for checking in and long security control /even if in Spain the fast trains have somthing like security check befor boarding/

i think it's a good move to built the Madrid-Barcelona HST line.

[Cicerón]

i'm sure the train with 2h35min is more than able to compete with planes. u have to remember, that travelling by plane u have to be at the airport at least about one hour befort start and then u have to make a little trip from city center to airport, what takes another 'few minutes'. even after arriving there is another trip from airport to the city. so every journey made by plane takes some 2 h of additional time to the real travel time. and trains usually have their stations in the city center without wasting your time for checking in and long security control /even if in Spain the fast trains have somthing like security check befor boarding/

i think it's a good move to built the Madrid-Barcelona HST line.

In the shuttle service (puente aéreo) between Madrid and Barcelona you don't need to be at the airport one hour before.

Anyway, it would be competitive and Iberia will have to reduce the prices.

[arriaca]

Madrid-Barcelona high-speed rail link to open in December: PM

BARCELONA, Spain, Aug 2, 2007 (AFP) - A high-speed rail link between Madrid and Barcelona, Spain's second-largest city, will open on December 21, Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said Thursday.

"The works are developing at a good rhythm," he told reporters during a visit to Barcelona.

The high-speed line already connects the Spanish capital to Camp de Tarragona with crews now working to complete the last leg of the line to Barcelona in northeastern Spain.

The opening of the final leg will cut journey times from Madrid to Barcelona from just over four hours to 2.5 hours.

There are over 900 flights a week between Madrid and Barcelona, making it the busiest air route in the world according to global travel and transport information company OAG.

The opening of the high speed rail link between the two cities is expected to cut air traffic on the route.

A high-speed rail link has operated since April 1992 between Madrid and Seville in southwestern Spain.


NOTA: Esto es rumorología, sólo están confirmados oficialmente los días 21 y 22 por parte de J.L. Rodríguez Zapatero.

DICIEMBRE

16 de Diciembre: Inauguración LAV de Madrid -Málaga
17 de Diciembre: Puesta en servicio comercial LAV de Madrid - Málaga
18 de Diciembre: Inauguración LAV de Valladolid
19 de Diciembre: Puesta en servicio comercial LAV de Madrid - Valladolid
21 de Diciembre: Inauguración LAV de Barcelona
22 de Diciembre: Puesta en servicio comercial LAV de Madrid - Barcelona



Personalmente no me gusta ese calendario, yo prefiero que se inaugure en 3 sábados seguidos, de esa forma, la prensa de los domingos, el día que más se lee la prensa, salga en portada las noticias de las inauguraciones.
Y tener toda la semana con reportajes, opiniones de pasajeros, etc.. en prensa, radio y TV.
Así podemos procesar los datos sin agobios.



:dance::dance:

[Bitxofo]

^^From Barcelona to Madrid in 2 hours 30 min. since December the 22nd, 2007!!
:dance:

[xote]

This is very good news, and means that one of the fastest high speed lines in Europe will be Spanish.

A line that is 670 km long with a top speed of 320 km/h to be traveled in 2.5 hours means that direct trains from Madrid to Barcelona will have an average speed of 270 km/h (about 170 mph for us North Americans :D)

:drool:

:banana:

[Bitxofo]

^^Commercial speed including stops will be by 270kph.
:yes:
Top speed is around 350kph.
:happy:

[Brice]

it's km/h please, kph is not correct

[Stewie]

^^From Barcelona to Madrid in 2 hours 30 min. since December the 22nd, 2007!!
:dance:

Are you sure? I thought it wouldn't be that fast at first... and if the top speed is going to be 300 km/h insteadof 350 km/h I'm afraid it might take like 3 hours finally.

[Bitxofo]

Are you sure? I thought it wouldn't be that fast at first... and if the top speed is going to be 300 km/h insteadof 350 km/h I'm afraid it might take like 3 hours finally.
A Velaro train reached 407 km/h in the tests of the line.
:yes:

[nastyathenian]

This train will solve my problem about visiting Barcelona. This city has usually few hotels available and they are either far away from the center or dumps. On the other hand Madrid has lots of 4-star hotels at affordable prices. Thanks to AVE I’ ll be able to pop out to Barcelona for a few hours for the basic sightseeing and return to Madrid on the same day!

[Trainman Dave]

^^From Barcelona to Madrid in 2 hours 30 min. since December the 22nd, 2007!!

Highly unlikely on December 22nd 2007. The issue is not the maximum operating speed of the train which permits a theoretical journey time of 2:30.

The problem is that this is a new line and the Spanish Infrastructure authority has never open a new line at the expected operational speed. They always start out with slower speed the ensure that the track and the signaling are all operating within their expected capacity and over time, in a few cases years, they slowly raise the speed limit. I will be studying the December time table with great interest. I expect that there will be one or two trains scheduled for slightly less than three hours in December with most trains running at about 3 hours 15 minutes at first.

By the end of next year, maybe the December 2008 timetable we will probably sees one or two trains operating at 2:30.

Further, Renefe has a policy of refunds when trains run late and to avoid paying to many refunds they tend to actually schedule the AVE trains to Seville at considerably less speed than their potential speed.

[growingup]

Well, it may be possible to reach Barcelona from Madrid in around 2 hours and a half, perhaps 2:45 since December 22nd 2007 in direct services using the existing by-passes. Remember that not all the line is brand new: Madrid-Camp de Tarragona stretch allows trains to run at 300km/h since May 7th 2007. When the first part of the line was opened (Madrid-Zaragoza-Lérida), trains ran at 200km/h because ERTMS was not ready to go, so ASFA was used instead; later on at 250 testing new ERTMS, then at 280, and finally at 300km/h. However, Lérida-Camp de Tarragona did not follow this process: it was opened at a operating speed of 200km/h and bumped up all together with Madrid-Zaragoza-Lérida to 300km/h. So perhaps, Adif, may set a different opening speed for Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona Sants as it has gained confidence with the european signalling system. In addition, Camp de Tarragona-Sant Boi is already on tests since some time ago I believe, resting only around 10km to reach Barcelona Sants, where the tracks aren't laid out yet.
Well, AVE to Seville doesn't operate "at a considerably less speed" than its potential speed. It takes on direct services 2:15 and its top speed its 300Km/h. It isn't running at its full potential, but Madrid-Seville line isn't as good as these ones that are opening in November-December. It is already 15 years old and it has some parts where trains can't go faster than 80km/h as it may be around Puertollano, where there is a very closed turn for HS standards.
I saw some great graphs comparing Madrid-Seville and Madrid-Camp de Tarragona lines in terms of speed. Madrid-Tarragona was way more "stable" with less peaks.

[Reivajar]

HSL Madrid-Sevilla was originally planed a new railroad corridor -not HSL- from Madrid to Andalusia in wide gauge (NAFA), but it was modified and upgraded before being built in order to become a HSL in UIC gauge. That's why HSL Madrid-Sevilla doesn't allow top speeds permanently.

Renfe has a policy of refunds in case of delay, but Renfe also gives in its schedules extra-time to trains in order to avoid delays. In other words, usually AVE trains arrive a few minutes before the official timtable. So, probably you never will see a official timetible with an AVE between Madrid and Barcelona operated at 2:30 while top speed is 300 km/h, but you can maybe arrive before the official time and it can be finally 2:30 of journey.

[Bitxofo]

This train will solve my problem about visiting Barcelona. This city has usually few hotels available and they are either far away from the center or dumps. On the other hand Madrid has lots of 4-star hotels at affordable prices. Thanks to AVE I’ ll be able to pop out to Barcelona for a few hours for the basic sightseeing and return to Madrid on the same day!
What an idiot comment!
:crazy:
Den katalavenos, file mou...
:weird:
And something else: each one way ticket from MAD to BCN will cost 100 euros.
:sleepy:

[Stifler]

And something else: each one way ticket from MAD to BCN will cost 100 euros.
They have already told you it's false in the Spanish forum.

Prices will be from 90€ to 220€ for one return ticket.

[nastyathenian]

Price is not an issue for someone who loves high speed trains. Judging from the pictures, AVE looks very comfortable inside, just as the German ICE. The other option for me is the route Madrid-Seville which costs only 72 Euros one way. But that line is rather old (1992) and I guess trains shake a lot more than on the newer lines. As you know it was Felipe Gonzalez’s present to his native city!

[Bitxofo]

They have already told you it's false in the Spanish forum.

Prices will be from 90€ to 220€ for one return ticket.
^^Cheap prices when you book 2 or 3 months in advance.
:yes:

[gincan]

This train will solve my problem about visiting Barcelona. This city has usually few hotels available and they are either far away from the center or dumps. On the other hand Madrid has lots of 4-star hotels at affordable prices. Thanks to AVE I’ ll be able to pop out to Barcelona for a few hours for the basic sightseeing and return to Madrid on the same day!

When did you visit Barcelona last time, 1980? You know there are now 290 hotels and more than 1/3 of them are 4*, and 20 are 5*. Together they have some 27000+ hotelrooms. And that is only for the city, if you include the hotels to the north and south then you have some 800 hotels with 80000+ hotelrooms to choose from. Hardly what I call few hotels.

[nastyathenian]

When did you visit Barcelona last time, 1980? You know there are now 290 hotels and more than 1/3 of them are 4*, and 20 are 5*. Together they have some 27000+ hotelrooms. And that is only for the city, if you include the hotels to the north and south then you have some 800 hotels with 80000+ hotelrooms to choose from. Hardly what I call few hotels.

There may be many hotels, but they are booked up several months in advance. Since I don’t like arranging my holidays too early, every time I searched in a well known on-line agency I did not find anything interesting at a logical price. On the contrary, hotels in Madrid are usually available and many of them are centrally located.

[Bitxofo]

There may be many hotels, but they are booked up several months in advance. Since I don’t like arranging my holidays too early, every time I searched in a well known on-line agency I did not find anything interesting at a logical price. On the contrary, hotels in Madrid are usually available and many of them are centrally located.
Completely FALSE!
:ohno:
I work for the Tourist Office and we always have hotels available, and we get special rates as 70€ por 3 stars, 80€ for 4 stars and 100€ for 5 stars hotels. This price is per double room, per night.
:yes:

[arriaca]

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6867/velocmzbffpi6.jpg



:cheers:

[growingup]

That was the chart I was talking about... xD. Thanks arriaca.

[arriaca]

De nada. Dáselas a Cicerón que lo posteó en Infraestructuras.


From Tranvía.org (Pablo):

Talgo S-130 near Valladolid (Garcillán):

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/TRENES/130PaetGarcillan.jpg

Segovia, new station:

Talgo Diesel

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/TRENES/355EstacindeSegovia.jpg

[Sr.Horn]

This is my first post in this international section of SSC :banana:
Here are my photos of the new Talgo in december 2006 in Benicarló-Peñíscola Sta., the same train of latest arriaca's post.

Nice sunset :lol:

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9379/p1000642nh8.th.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000642nh8.jpg)

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7687/p1000644lq5.th.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000644lq5.jpg)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/762/p1000649zm1.th.jpg (http://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000649zm1.jpg)

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8034/p1000651ug2.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000651ug2.jpg)

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/1015/p1000652hq9.th.jpg (http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000652hq9.jpg)

and the train that i have arrived Talgo Murcia Lorca from Barcelona, departs to Castellón

http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/9918/p1000646qs8.th.jpg (http://img322.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1000646qs8.jpg)

[33Hz]

Did I read somewhere that this Talgo S-130 can or does have sleeper cars?

With the variable gauge, could it provide through service to France until 2012?

[growingup]

There are already official dates from the Spanish Deparment of Public Works for the new HSLs openings in Spain, and they give also estimated times of arrival!:

AVE Madrid-Barcelona:
Opening: December 21st.
First Commercial Services: December 22nd.
Estimated Time: 2 hours and 35 minutes.

AVE Madrid-Valladolid:
Opening: December 22nd.
First Commercial Services: December 23rd.
Estimated Time: 1 hour.

AVE Madrid-Málaga:
Opening: December 23rd.
First Commercial Services: December 24th
Estimated Time: 2 hours and 35 minutes.

It has been confirmed that all new stretches concerning those lines (This is to say Camp de Tarragona-Barcelona, Madrid-Valladolid and Antequera-Málaga) will be opened in ERTMS/ETCS level 1, at speeds of 300km/h maximum. When ETCS level 2 enters in service on 2008, this maximum speeds will be increased up to 350km/h.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/1034/r0057d032gyr1.jpg

[Bitxofo]

^^Madrid-BCN and Madrid-Málaga in 2h 35min?
:?
1st distance is much longer...
:sly:

[growingup]

Considering that Madrid-Málaga uses the first generation HSL (NAFA) from Madrid to Córdoba and starting there uses and all new second generation HSL which allows speed of up to 350km/h, as Madrid-Barcelona HSL, it's allright. Nevertheless, it will start services at a top speed of 300km/h due to the fact that ERTMS/ETCS level 1 only allows speeds up to 300km/h, same thing that happens on Madrid-Barcelona HSL. However, this time is expected to be shortened to 2 hours and 15-20 minutes in 2008 when ERTMS/ETCS level 2 enters in service, allowing speeds up to 350km/h in Córdoba-Málaga newest stretch. Madrid-Barcelona, Madrid-Málaga and Madrid-Seville direct services will be operated all with the same train, AVE S-103. S-100 and S-102 will be used in other services with more stops as they can accelerate faster than the AVE S-103 does.

[Booze]

Wee!! I'm just waiting for RTMS level II to be operative and then I'll plan my PMI-AGP-MAD-VLL-MAD-BCN-PMI trip :D to discover that amazing second generation HSL :drool:

[Jean Luc]

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/TRENES/130PaetGarcillan.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/TintinMadrid/TRENES/355EstacindeSegovia.jpg
^ Why are there line-side signals? Don't the trains have in-cab signalling?

[Booze]

^^ They reach 350KM/h, and at that speed is impossible for the driver to see any signals, so the trains just rely on ERMTS and other automated systems to operate. Traffic control is centralised and processed in real time to guarantee safety conditions.

The train on the picture bellow it's just for tests.

[arriaca]

^ Why are there line-side signals? Don't the trains have in-cab signalling?

Yes, they have it. The signals are used for ERTMS I and the secondary system (Renfe called it ASFA).

[Bipo]

^ Why are there line-side signals? Don't the trains have in-cab signalling?
Yes, they have it. The signals are used for ERTMS I and the secondary system (Renfe called it ASFA).

As Arriaca said, those signals are just a back-up system, to allow speeds up to 200 km/h when ERTMS fails. It's called ASFA (Anuncio de Señales y Frenado Automático - Signals Indication and Automatic Brake) and it have been used since the seventies in the rest of Spanish railway network.

[Reivajar]

Did I read somewhere that this Talgo S-130 can or does have sleeper cars?

With the variable gauge, could it provide through service to France until 2012?

Yes, it can have sleeping coaches because technology of Talgo coaches are basically the same. However, there is a problem due to voltage systems.

These units can run on conventional Spanish lines electrificated at 3000 V DC, and on new UIC lines at 25 kV AC. In Southern French network electrification system used is 1500 V DC, so Talgo/Bombardier locomotives must have modificated. Now, international trains between Spain and France, Italy o Switerzland change its locomotive at the border station.

Moreover, for a night train is more practical being a train without traction, because it's easier changing number of coaches and adapt them to needs.

[Bipo]

^^

In fact, Renfe ordered ten new "TrenHotel" (TrainHotel), without traction and completely autonomous (self powered by diesel generators).

These night trains are Talgo 6 with variable gauge (1435 - 1668 mm) and they are able to run up to 220 km/h (they have Talgo 7 suspension and wheels).

[sdf11]

^^ Sorry but I can't understand you...without locomotive? completely autonomous (self powered by diesel generators)

Do you have more info about this new trainhotel?

Thanks!

[Bipo]

^^

Not exactly :D. When I say "completely autonomous (self powered by diesel generators)" y mean it doesn't need a link with locomotive to get electric power (to run AC, lights and the rest of on-board services). A couple of diesel generators provide power to the train, but a locomotive is still needed, of course.

Completely autonomous Talgo 6 trains make possible passing throught the gauge change complex without turn off AC and lights, so people sleeping (or not) won't be disturbed. In a common train, when locomotive is unplugged, on-board services are turned-off.

[Coccodrillo]

In a common train, when locomotive is unplugged, on-board services are turned-off.

Except lights! Usually coaches have batteries for that.

[sdf11]

^^

Not exactly :D. When I say "completely autonomous (self powered by diesel generators)" y mean it doesn't need a link with locomotive to get electric power (to run AC, lights and the rest of on-board services). A couple of diesel generators provide power to the train, but a locomotive is still needed, of course.

Completely autonomous Talgo 6 trains make possible passing throught the gauge change complex without turn off AC and lights, so people sleeping (or not) won't be disturbed. In a common train, when locomotive is unplugged, on-board services are turned-off.

Ok...at first i'm surprised, maybe beacause my english is not perfect...but yes...I know this "generator" car in the talgos.

But also, I would like to know more about this new adquisitions, are the same train that actually (elipsos) or change something?

[Bipo]

Except lights! Usually coaches have batteries for that.

Yes, but just emergency lights are turned on when the locomotive is unplugged ;).


Ok...at first i'm surprised, maybe beacause my english is not perfect...but yes...I know this "generator" car in the talgos.

But also, I would like to know more about this new adquisitions, are the same train that actually (elipsos) or change something?

They are almost the same train, but newer Talgo 6 coaches have Talgo 7 suspension and wheels, speeding up the train from 200 km/h to 220 km/h, and increasing comfort.

[Reivajar]

Moreover, I imagine new Talgo sleeping coaches have same advantages than Talgo 7 coaches.

New generation of Talgo coaches allow an easier management of Talgo type rolling stock. The particular design of these coaches (with suspension and wheels between each coach) forced to have special ending coaches in the train, until 6th generation. However, 7th generation has a new suspension columns layout along the train, ending coaches are tecnically identical to others, and management of coaches is easier. It's a bit difficult to explain it correctly.

A/C equipements are under the floor along the coach in 7th generation, and not in the end of the coach. It improves natural pendulation and increases capacity.

Well, these are some differences between two last generations.

[Bipo]

^^

That would be fantastic, but the new sleeping coaches are Talgo 6, not Talgo 7 :D.

[Reivajar]

^^Yes, I know, but that's why I say "I imagine" xD :D.

I know new night trains are Talgo 6 with some improvements from 7th generation, but really I don't know how many improvements there will be :D (besides 7th generation wheels and suspension) xD

If you say there will be only these improvements I will believe you :D

[33Hz]

Yes, it can have sleeping coaches because technology of Talgo coaches are basically the same. However, there is a problem due to voltage systems.

These units can run on conventional Spanish lines electrificated at 3000 V DC, and on new UIC lines at 25 kV AC. In Southern French network electrification system used is 1500 V DC, so Talgo/Bombardier locomotives must have modificated. Now, international trains between Spain and France, Italy o Switerzland change its locomotive at the border station.

Moreover, for a night train is more practical being a train without traction, because it's easier changing number of coaches and adapt them to needs.

I would be nice if they could be modified for 1.5kV...

Imagine if an Elipsos Trenhotel started its journey in London, travelled through France and served Barcelona and Madrid. It could serve holiday destinations in SE Spain during the summer too.

[Reivajar]

^^When HS network is more developped, it will be possible, no doubt.

Suposely, France had a plan to change voltage system in its Southern network, but it seems to have been forgotten somewhere.

I don't know, but technology exists -a good example of multiple voltage systems train is TGV POS or Thalys PBKA, instead of a very poor power-to-weight-ratio on German lines-. However, by the moment, there is no news about it in Spain. Talgo has been developing a new variable gauge and bi-tension locomotive (http://www.trensim.com/galeria/albums/userpics/10011/traca04.jpg) (I don't talk about loco's used in S-130 made by Bombardier) and it would be a basis for future developements...

Yes, I imagine night trains from Nothern Europe towards Spain...:D

[arriaca]

In so long trips it is easier to change to the locomotive and the machinist.

[sdf11]

Some new videos from the HSL on Spain, principally in the southern corridor Madrid-Sevilla & Madrid-Toledo.


The new AVE S-103 during a service on Madrid-Sevilla HSL:

AVzL9n9J8sE

cXMc1j58cvA

DYd5WSl3ykc


Some AVE S-100 class:

PCPXekzeTe4

4-You55nuZQ

vem92PX2JkU


Now, the medium-haul high speed train, S-104 series on the track Madrid-Toledo:

ltHwH8a9PMs

QGVcCaiiGJQ

ZzR5G5s6r9k


And others:

ypoJuGwZUyE

AVE 252+Talgo 7, waiting for the AVE from Toledo.

RFfAqu8U6S0


In a few minuts more...

[sdf11]

And finally, two videos of the Hsl Madrid-Barcelona at Lleida-Pirineus Station:

AVE S-120 (variable gauge train):

AuhxmxZGuyE

AVE-102 "the famous duck"

YkXcSifOKlA


BYE!

[OettingerCroat]

awesome trains! im taking the madrid-barcelona high speed train in a few months, i will post my own pics and videos! :cheers:

[Booze]

^^ The high speed service starts on december 21st 2007.

[OettingerCroat]

^^ The high speed service starts on december 21st 2007.

i know, im going in june 2008. quite a few months :lol: ;) :okay: