Bath Rugby have published a draft prospectus outlining their ambitions for The Rec, which can be downloaded at:

http://www.bathrugby.com/prospectus.pdf

It's an interesting enough read in itself, but the last page caught my eye as it details other clubs' future plans, as follows:

Bath - 10,600 - Plans being prepared to apply for 15,000 capacity arena at the Rec.

Bristol - 11,976 - Ground share at Bristol Rovers, who have plans to develop. Can play one-off games at Bristol City’s ground - 21,000.

Gloucester - 12,500 - Plans have been mooted to rebuild one stand - which would take attendance over 15k - more detail expected by end of 06/07 season.

Leicester Tigers - 16,815 - Have purchased freehold of Welford Rd with view to developing ground to 25k+ over 10 years.

London Irish - 24,100 - Ground share with Reading FC. First class stadium which meets all criteria but no primacy of tenure.

London Wasps - 10,000 - Ground share with Wycombe FC. Plans to develop and increase capacity to 15k announced July 2006 to include new access road. No timescales confirmed.

NEC Harlequins - 12,700 - Have recently developed one stand at cost of £8m to take capacity to 12,700. Outline plans to develop another stand to take capacity up to around 15k.

Newcastle Falcons - 10,200 - Have recently developed ground - now all seater and covered. No plans for further development.

Northampton Saints - 13,500 - One further stand to develop to take capacity to 15k+.

Sale Sharks - 10,641 - Ground share with Stockport County (owned by chairman of Sale Sharks). No development plans at present.

Saracens - 19,108 - Ground share with Watford. Large though old fashioned stadium – ground improvement plans recently announced.

Worcester - 10,221 - Have recently increased capacity to over 10k - plans to increase further to 13,200 by 2008.

I knew about Gloucester and Leicester, but does anybody have any extra information on any of the other clubs? Presumably the new stand at Quins is the open south end, and at Northampton the end with all the hospitality boxes? Also, I'm pretty certain Newcastle's Kingston Park still has a terrace at one end!

I'm studying architecture in Bath and i have to say i am not too sure of the chances of the Rec being expanded. According to local reports relations between B&NES and the Rugby Club have become bitter to say the least and the rugby club might end up in some business park like setting on the outskirts.

The details of the plans for Bristol Memorial Ground can be found on the Bristol Rovers FC website at http://www.bristolrovers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/StadiumPlans/0,,10328,00.html?ptvParm=

http://www.bristolrovers.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/cf/ab/0,,10328~2993103,00.jpg

The planning app to increase capacity to an 18,500 all seater stadium was submitted in September but the locals are not happy so it's not going to get an easy ride through to being approved.

Big step forward for £23m Warriors stadium revolution
14 December 2006, 3:35 pm
By Mark Higgitt


http://www.wrfc.co.uk/images/news/web_450_stadium_development_2006_rdax_450x301.jpg

The £23m development of Worcester Rugby Club’s Sixways stadium complex has moved a step closer after the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, Ruth Kelly, decided not to intervene with the application.
She says the scheme – which includes a new North Stand, a health centre and racquet club, a new car park, and replacement training pitches – meets planning policy guidelines relating to green belt development, public transport access, and the provision of sports and leisure facilities.
That leaves the final decision to Wychavon District Council – which has already passed the plans unanimously.
It also means that Worcestershire County Council can now apply for permission to use the proposed new car parking as a park-and-ride facility for the city.
And it is the trigger for the club and its partners to ink in key stages of the action plan that will transform Sixways.
Drainage works have already been complete behind the position of the proposed North Stand, and the rerouting of Barbourne Brook will begin early in the new year.
When the complex is complete, for the start of the 2008-2009 season, Warriors will have one of the best club rugby stadiums in England, with a capacity of 13,200.
The North Stand will boast an open concourse with concessions stands, a shop, ticket office and toilets, as well as a hospitality suite, kitchen and toilets on the first floor, and balconies and bars on the second. From this floor, up to the third, will be seating for 1,860. There will also be space for 3,174 standing spectators.
The Esporta sports and leisure complex, between the East Stand and Pershore Lane, will include an outdoor pool and tennis courts, two of which will be covered by an inflatable dome, and a 250-space car park.
Inside, there will be a tennis hall, with six courts, a multi-purpose sports hall, a 25mn indoor pool, and a gym.
If separate planning permission is given, the new car park behind the stadium will become a park-and-ride site for the city, with fans having exclusive use on match days.
“It has been the most complex project I’ve been involved with,” said club chairman Cecil Duckworth. “Dealing with the different agencies and, at the same time, meeting the requirements for the club, Esporta and Worcestershire County Council to enable them to have a park-and-ride facility at Sixways on non match days, has been very time-consuming.
“However, once the new road system’s installed and the other facilities are complete, we’ll have a fabulous site and getting to the ground will be considerably improved, together with a quality car park.
“We look forward to getting rid of the problems of mud, and so on, which is a continual battle at the moment. We hope to start the work on the new roadworks and car parking in the spring and for this to be completed by the beginning of next season, when work will start on the Esporta complex and the North Stand, which will be completed in the autumn of 2008.
“I’m certainly looking forward to the day when it’s completed, and I’m sure it will be well-received by our supporters and everyone involved with the club.”

Nice one. I remember seeing a render of the proposed new Next Stand at Leicester a few years ago on an architect's website - no idea where though...

The Christmas clash between Bristol and Bath at Ashton Gate attracted a record Premiership attendance (in regular season outside of Twickenham) of 21,203.

Some big Stockport fan was saying to me that sale sharks have got to move elsewhere within the next 2 years. No idea if its true or not but they have had plans in the past to build their own new ground. Trafford should let them redevelop their old ground, then I can start going again as its only a 5 minute walk away.

Some big Stockport fan was saying to me that sale sharks have got to move elsewhere within the next 2 years. No idea if its true or not but they have had plans in the past to build their own new ground. Trafford should let them redevelop their old ground, then I can start going again as its only a 5 minute walk away.

Yeh it's only 5mins away from me too. But I never thought that there was much room around the ground that could be used for an expansion?

Yeh it's only 5mins away from me too. But I never thought that there was much room around the ground that could be used for an expansion?
There's not alot of room but if the whole lot was cleared out I recon they could fit a new 10,000 seater ground in quite easily. I was at the ground not to long ago and there was a hedgehog running about.

Don't Sale own Edgeley Park ?

10,000 isn't enough though - I don't know what the exact proposals are, but according to the prospectus I posted at the start of the thread:

"Criteria set by Premier Rugby Limited require us to achieve capacity of 15,000 by 2010 or face measures which would further damage our ability to compete professionally at the highest level."

Some people have mentioned a possible move to Salford Reds' new stadium, which is 2/3 the distance from Heywood Road compared to Edgeley Park, but not having primacy of tenure might be an arse...

Seems a bit daft having to build a new stadium when you will only fill it for big matches.

Stade Francaise have the right idea, playing Toulouse and Biarritz at the Stade de France they get 80,000 crowds for those two games whilst getting 12,000 crowds for their games played on their own stadium. They recently played Sale at Parc des Princes and pulled in 45,000.

There's Old Trafford, COMS, the Reebok, JJB close by and Stoke City's ground not much further away.

Don't Sale own Edgeley Park ?

Nope, its owned by Stockport Country who are owned by some other guy.

Seems a bit daft having to build a new stadium when you will only fill it for big matches.

Stade Francaise have the right idea, playing Toulouse and Biarritz at the Stade de France they get 80,000 crowds for those two games whilst getting 12,000 crowds for their games played on their own stadium. They recently played Sale at Parc des Princes and pulled in 45,000.

There's Old Trafford, COMS, the Reebok, JJB close by and Stoke City's ground not much further away.
Well Sale get 10,000 for most games. They'd never fit 15,000 seats into the old ground but they need to come up with something as we all know they won't be at Stockport for ever.

What about an improved Old Trafford Cricket Ground ?

Not a Premiership side this season, but sure to be back next season or season after, Leeds Tykes probably have one of the best grounds in Rugby Union - Headingley. Just built a new East stand with plans to redevelop the Main North stand - Capacity will be 22.5k, with 2 brand new covered mainly seated stands, and the exisitng huge covered terrace that is the South Stand.

What about an improved Old Trafford Cricket Ground ?

Not on your nelly. We don't have Australia's climate, so there's no way you could play rugby on the square in winter and expect it to recover. Even if there was room for a rugby pitch to one side, you'd only have seating along one touchline, and an odd arrangement at each end.

Nope, its owned by Stockport Country who are owned by some other guy.

I thought Brian Kennedy (Sale owner) bought Stockport a couple of years ago?

Oh no, my mistake, it turns out he handed ownership to a supporters' group as County was losing money. Though I reckon the status quo is that Kennedy owns Sale and Edgeley Park.

Oh no, my mistake, it turns out he handed ownership to a supporters' group as County was losing money. Though I reckon the status quo is that Kennedy owns Sale and Edgeley Park.

That's Correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockport_County_F.C.#The_Great_Escape

I have no idea who owns Edgeley Park.

Well, according to that Wikipedia page you cited, Cheshire Sports own both the Sharks and Edgeley Park.

Newcastle Falcons - 10,200 - Have recently developed ground - now all seater and covered. No plans for further development.

Kingston Park is not all seated and certainly not all covered.

West Stand

http://www.newcastle-falcons.co.uk/images/content/west-stand2.jpg

East Stand

http://www.newcastle-falcons.co.uk/images/content/eaststand.jpg

John Smith's Stand

http://www.newcastle-falcons.co.uk/images/content/johnsmithstand.jpg

North Stand

http://www.newcastle-falcons.co.uk/images/content/northstand.jpg

^^ I didn't say that by the way, it was a quote from the Bath prospectus.

Anyway, I just remembered that on The Rugby Club last Thursday it was mentioned that Gloucester will be playing their last home game against Bristol at Ashton Gate. Looking at their website, they started work on moving the sewer last week, and will start work on the grandstand after their penultimate home game, against Newcastle on 24 March.

I was critical of them in another thread when I heard that they would be starting work mid-season, but this sounds like ideal timing.

Well, according to that Wikipedia page you cited, Cheshire Sports own both the Sharks and Edgeley Park.
The people behind Sale took Stockport County over in 2003, and transferred ownership of the ground to a new company called Cheshire Sport. Heywood Road apparently was too small and there wasn't much room for development, so they looked around for a larger stadium, our previous chairman Brendan Elwood was willing to sell, so he did.

SCFC were doing poorly on the pitch at the time and things didn't improve, so after two seasons they gave ownership of County to the Stockport County Supporters' Trust, but retained the ground. Apparently Brian Kennedy lost £4m on County - which is pretty bloody cheap for a 10,000 stadium in a top location, if you ask me.

There's some room for development of Edgeley Park, but it depends on a plot of land next to the ground at Booth Street which was formerly a council depot. SCFC's proposal includes community facilities, affordable housing etc. Sale's proposal is simply to use the area as a car park, despite the fact there's a big car park behind the Cheadle End (they stick a big marquee for food & beer on it on matchdays, which unfortunately takes a lot of business away from local pubs & food outlets). Obviously this isn't very appealing for the local council, so they also propose to include a not-at-all-needed Park & Ride scheme to the town centre... which won't please local businesses, either.

The main point is, SCFC have an option to buy back Edgeley Park, but the price goes up if there's any developments. For Sale to meet future Guinness Premiership requirements, they'll need the land to build a new stand. County need the land to develop facilities with the council, and to be able to afford to buy our home back.

Gloucester Rugby have a webcam showing progress of the new grandstand - the old one's already gone:

http://gloucesterrugby-gloucester.remotemanager.co.uk/image/340/-/archive/37b8552a0a138684c44fa34ffbc9db3e/364d81b5c6c0d9a927a3422391bec95e/2007/04/1176048329.7185-3e1dcd47

http://www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk/304_3136.php

http://www.montpellier-rugby.com/modules/coppermine/albums/yves-du-manoir/070328-2.jpg

Here's Montpellier Rugby Club's new stadium.

Prospectus for the Gloucester regeneration mentions the proposed new 'railway triangle' stadium.

http://www.gloucesterurc.co.uk/downloads/GHURC_Prospectus.pdf

Just down the road from my former club the old boys.

Prospectus for the Gloucester regeneration mentions the proposed new 'railway triangle' stadium.

http://www.gloucesterurc.co.uk/downloads/GHURC_Prospectus.pdf

Just down the road from my former club the old boys.

That's very wishful thinking, given how committed Glaws are to staying at Kingsholm - it was bad enough as far as the fans were concerned that the Shed is to be changed...

http://www.stadetoulousain.fr/templates/images/photos/photo-ballon3.jpg
Toulouse have a nice stadium.

do football play there as well isaac?

do football play there as well isaac?

Nope. Toulouse FC play at Stade Municipal which holds nearly twice as many as the one above.

http://www.stadiumguide.com/toulouse4.jpg

do football play there as well isaac?

No but they pulled in 34,000 at the football stadium against Clermont this weekend

http://www.cybervulcans.net/spip/IMG/jpg/auvergne.jpg
Clermont don't have a bad ground themselves.

Oi, back on topic please! :)

Watching the rugby on Sky Sports just now, they announced that Gloucester will be playing their semi-final against Saracens at Kingsholm next weekend, which seems a bit strange now they've knocked the grandstand down. Looking at Bristol City's website, they have a home game at Ashton Gate on Saturday, but surely Glaws could have played there the next day?

Oi, back on topic please! :)



I'm expanding the topic seeing as not much is happening in the Premiership.

I've seen a few Saracens home games this season and have seen one Harlequins RL game so far but plan to watch some more plus a London Skolars game.

It would be nice if the Wasps, London Irish and Saracens had their own grounds, or all shared a purpose built ground.

Published 01 May 2007 at 11:24

Stadium expansion under way for top Rugby club


Construction was underway yesterday on a 7,000-seat stand at the home of Gloucester RFC, league leaders of Ruby Union’s Guinness Premiership.

The new £6.2M south stand at the club's Kingsholm stadium will increase capacity from 13,000 to 17,000. Work has begun following the recent demolition of the 75-year-old former stand.

Ground engineering specialist Pennine has moved on site and is using a rig to insert 600 top feed vibro displacement stone columns, to depths of up to 4.5m in ground comprising fill materials and silty clays that become firmer with depth.

This will increase the strength and load bearing capacity of the varied ground conditions.

“The project will take a week to complete, after which we hand over to main contractor Slick Developments,” said Pennine Gloucester manager Graham Ellery.

“Next time I take my seat to watch the team play, I’ll feel even more part of the match.”

Construction is due to finish by the end of October. Main contractor is Slick Developments, consulting engineer is Farebrother and Partners.

Leeds Tykes are likely to expand Headingley stadium, most likely through redevelopment of the South Stand terrace (already largest all standing terrace in the UK?). They intend to use grant funding from the RFU. This will add to the new Eastern Carnegie stand built last year. The club have stated it will remain a covered terrace, as this is the fans favourite stand...

The Butts Park Arena, the home of Coventry RFC, Coventry Bears RLFC and Coventry Jets AFC. The ground currently holds 10,000 people (4,000 seated) there is a second phase planned for the recently built venue, which is yet to be announced.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=450963

i heard that the Leicester Tigers plan to expand their stadium, any news on this?

Leeds Tykes are likely to expand Headingley stadium, most likely through redevelopment of the South Stand terrace (already largest all standing terrace in the UK?). They intend to use grant funding from the RFU. This will add to the new Eastern Carnegie stand built last year. The club have stated it will remain a covered terrace, as this is the fans favourite stand...

leeds tykes are'nt going to expand anything....headingley is'nt their stadium..all expansion is going to be done on the back of the leeds rhinos RLFC,who fill the ground unlike the tykes who struggle to fill one of the stands..

Leeds Tykes don't even exist any more.

(What kind of a stupid bloody name for a team is "Carnegie"?)

Leeds Carnagie?

God I hate this kind of crap. First it was Bristol Shoguns (Shogun being a Mitsubishi Shogun) then Earth Titans! Pertemps Bees! What an incredible lack of class Rugby Union is starting to show. It's commercialism gone mad!!

Leeds Tykes are likely to expand Headingley stadium, most likely through redevelopment of the South Stand terrace (already largest all standing terrace in the UK?).

i don't think it is the largest terrace? odsal's terracing is pretty big,it hold around 18-20k
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/7/71/350px-GrattanStadium.jpg

any news on new Guinness Premiership Stadiums? any proposals? plans?

could somebody maybe update the front page if any of the info has been changed since then?...

The new South Stand at Gloucester seems to be coming along nicely (there was nothing there above ground level when they played Sarries on 5 May):

http://www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk/304_3136.php

Leeds Carnagie?

God I hate this kind of crap. First it was Bristol Shoguns (Shogun being a Mitsubishi Shogun) then Earth Titans! Pertemps Bees! What an incredible lack of class Rugby Union is starting to show. It's commercialism gone mad!!

Youre kidding!? Earth Titans? :rofl:

Youre kidding!? Earth Titans? :rofl:

Sad, isn't it? Earth Titans must be unique in being named after two sponsors - they originally changed from Rotherham to Rotherham Titans following a sponsorship deal with a company called Titan, then were later sponsored by a financial company called Earth (who also sponsor St. Helen's RLFC).

Its pretty awful. I wonder if the stupid name put players off from signing? Pertemps Bees is hardly the most masculine name either!

Isnt Pertemps an employment agency? I wonder if this is how they find their players!

This whole selling of the names of clubs really pisses me off, it stinks. Sponsored stadia i can cope with, but the name of a club is not something to be sold.

Leicester look set to redevelop Welford Road after a couple of false starts:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/english/6741299.stm

would'nt it be cheaper to move into the walkers stadium??

I thought a few years ago a deal was struck that they were going to play at the Walkers stadium. That is 32k capacity so it is not as if they could not fill it or certainly regularly get enough people there to generate a good atmosphere & a profit.

I thought a few years ago a deal was struck that they were going to play at the Walkers stadium. That is 32k capacity so it is not as if they could not fill it or certainly regularly get enough people there to generate a good atmosphere & a profit.

You remember correctly - they were supposed to move in at the start of the 2005/06 season:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/front_page/4034941.stm

However, the two clubs couldn't come to agreement over whose fixtures would take priority, and the plan was dropped in the 2005 off-season:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/leicester_city/4419791.stm

This whole selling of the names of clubs really pisses me off, it stinks. Sponsored stadia i can cope with, but the name of a club is not something to be sold.

Crap, isn't it? I think Bristol started the trend - from memory I can think of:

Bristol Shoguns
Rotherham Titans -> Earth Titans
Pertemps Bees
NEC Harlequins
Leeds Carnegie

It's hard to tell from the crappy webcam picture, but the new stand at Kingsholm looks like it's going to be on two levels:

http://www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk/304_3136.php

Amazingly from this website it appears to be the first new major stand built in years that have several uprights holding up the roof. Maybe the uprights will dissapear when the stand is completed, otherwise ther appears to be about 8 huge uprights blocking at least half of the seats?

http://www.bbc.co.uk:80/gloucestershire/content/image_galleries/kingsholm_development_gallery.shtml?24

Crap, isn't it? I think Bristol started the trend - from memory I can think of:

Bristol Shoguns
Rotherham Titans -> Earth Titans
Pertemps Bees
NEC Harlequins
Leeds Carnegie

However, Bristol have since dropped the Shoguns name (well, the Shoguns didn't continue the sponsorship) so they're now back to being just Bristol Rugby.

Amazingly from this website it appears to be the first new major stand built in years that have several uprights holding up the roof. Maybe the uprights will dissapear when the stand is completed, otherwise ther appears to be about 8 huge uprights blocking at least half of the seats?

No, it looks like you're right... :ohno:

http://www.bbc.co.uk:80/gloucestershire/content/image_galleries/kingsholm_development_gallery.shtml?11

If this is the compromise GRFC had to accept to squeeze 17,000 into Kingsholm, maybe they should have had the guts to move to a new stadium instead...

http://www.stadetoulousain.fr/templates/images/photos/photo-ballon3.jpg
Toulouse have a nice stadium.

These French stadiums are pretty damn good, but do the clubs build/pay for these themselves or are they built by the local authorities like a lot of stadia are on the continent?

No, it looks like you're right... :ohno:

http://www.bbc.co.uk:80/gloucestershire/content/image_galleries/kingsholm_development_gallery.shtml?11

If this is the compromise GRFC had to accept to squeeze 17,000 into Kingsholm, maybe they should have had the guts to move to a new stadium instead...

I believe this is to be a temporary stand, like the buildbase one on the Kingsholm road which also has columns obstructing the sightlines.

Way I see it, one of two things will happen:

1 ) This will only be there for the upcoming season before they remove it and start work on the permanent one they have approval for.

2) It is staying with us for a while with the permanent stand on the backburner while they look at the 'railway triangle' plan. (The most likely IMHO)

I believe this is to be a temporary stand, like the buildbase one on the Kingsholm road which also has columns obstructing the sightlines.

I disagree - there's nothing temporary-looking about the new stand!

Way I see it, one of two things will happen:

1 ) This will only be there for the upcoming season before they remove it and start work on the permanent one they have approval for.

2) It is staying with us for a while with the permanent stand on the backburner while they look at the 'railway triangle' plan. (The most likely IMHO)

Wasn't a new use found for the Railway Triangle after GRFC rejected a move there?

You are correct about the railway triangle, the club apparently rejected the railway triangle move back in April. (Was away and missed the story in the press.. :wallbash: )

There was a report last year, that a temporary structure was to be built for this season as there was not time to demolish/build in one "close season"
However, looking at the revised planning application

http://www.gloucesteractive.co.uk/committee/Published/C00000111/M00002751/AI00002743/$pt01086apages915.doc.pdf

It would appear that:
"The alterations to the structural design of the building does mean that the striking feature of the suspended roof system comprising the row of stanchions and metal rods above the mono-pitched roof will be omitted"

So it would appear that the original suspended design has been dropped and this is indeed the 'permanent' stand :ohno:

any updates????

http://gloucesterrugby-gloucester.remotemanager.co.uk/image/1000/-/tmp/?cam=364d81b5c6c0d9a927a3422391bec95e&b=no&f=yes&c=yes&q=50&m=yes&_nocache=aa85cc131e9fe484219c526657adba92

http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire/content/images/2007/08/23/kingsholm_230807_470x300.jpg

looking nice, indeed it does look like the stand will have the old fashioned poles holding up the roof...

That photo was taken on 23 August, and Gloucester's first home game is on 29 September... Chop, chop.

With regards to Sale Sharks position

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/stockport_county/s/1014/1014171_county_eye_ground_deal_.html

I always thought it was a mistake Sale Sharks never took over Maine Road (if indeed that was ever an option)

I reckon they'd become a real powerhouse if they worked with Manchester City Council to develop somewhere in Sport City. But its up to their support, maybe they should go back to Trafford and Sale in particular.

was watching Gloucester v worcester last night, Gloucester's new grand stand looks supurb, only down side is the roof support column in front of the seats.

Is Kingsholm Stadium's capacity 17,000+ now?

There is no need for all of this just one stadium is all they need (Bath Recreation Ground)
http://wikimapia.org/3305209/Bath_Recreation_Ground

The plans for the redevelopment of Welford Road are on fwp's website:

http://www.fwpgroup.co.uk/projects/default_item.php?id=49

From what I can tell, this impression isn't of the completed project, as there will eventually be a single roof joining the three stands facing the largest stand...

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x20/lecimage/385_lg.jpg

that looks great

will it still be a 25k capacity?

still think they should move too the walkers

30k eventually, that render is phase 1 I believe, the second phase will see the 3 smaller stands joined together in a bowl

30k eventually, that render is phase 1 I believe, the second phase will see the 3 smaller stands joined together in a bowl

30k is a very impressive number in terms of Rugby union stadium capacities- thats like the Old Trafford of rugby!:banana:

It is phase 1 yes.
The new big main stand and the triangular shaped stand nearest are phase 1 and then phase 2 will see an identical stand built behind the other goal and then they will be connected together with the stand along the side to form a semi bowl.
Very immpressive

Okay, this is Welsh rugby, so apologies for the intrusion, but hopefully you'll agree there is no need to clutter the board with a seperate 'Magners League' thread..

Exciting times for Welsh clubs at the moment. In 2005 The Ospreys moved into the 20,000 capacity Liberty Stadium, and are since averaging more than 10,000 per game.

In the last two months major announcements have been made regarding the three other professionalWelsh clubs.

Llanelli have been given final approval for a new 14,000+ capacity ground.
Newport Dragons have unveiled plans to redevelop Rodney Parade by 2010 to a 15,000 capacity ground.
Finally Cardiff Blues controversially confirmed that they will be tenants at the new 27,000 capacity Cardiff City ground. This will give the club the largest capacity in the UK, and it's hoped will help increase attendances from the current 8-9000 average.

Llanelli Scarlets
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/7091258.stm

Cardiff Blues
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/cardiff_city/6278953.stm

Newport Gwent Dragons
http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/NewsArticle.aspx?n=36922dae-f82a-42fa-bdae-8fbbbf1d2cb8

I don't understand the rodney parade renders, the show the goal end stands being massive compared with the sidelines??? why would they do this? There is definately space for a large stand on the side where the grandstand is now? seems silly to me

The Tiger's plans have been released. We believe this is closer to the finished thing after phase 1, 2 , 3, etc.

http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=414lgdj0.jpg

I don't understand the rodney parade renders, the show the goal end stands being massive compared with the sidelines??? why would they do this? There is definately space for a large stand on the side where the grandstand is now? seems silly to me

It's Newport innit!

On The Rugby Club last night, they briefly mentioned that Saracens are about to get a £10 million cash injection from a South African businessman, leading to the possibility of their own purpose-built ground.

There seems to be a story on Sarries' site, but I can't be bothered registering to see if it says any more than that...

http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=4254

just found this forum - got some exellent infomation and images of proposed stadiums on here

wondering if you can help me out - as JamesWelsh pointed out, The Llanelli Scarlets are currently building a new Stadium - unfortunatley the club marketing is so poor - noboday actually knows what it is going to look like!!

Us natives have seen a few ropey images in the local rag (that could frankly be any small stadium) and some technical drawings from the local authority website

This is were you guys come in - can you find anything on the web - I've heard that there is a "fly through digital video" available somewhere and there are surely some digital images available somewhere - I just dont know where to look!! (obviously tried our own club web and fans forum)

Posters on here seem to know where to look to get very up to date info/images etc

Any chance of helping a very frustrated supporter out??

I must admit Turk,renders have been a bit thin on the ground.

I understand that it'll be 15,000 capacity, and please prey to god, allah and the rest that it won't be bloody all-seater.

The Llanelli songs will die a slow and quiet death if it is.

the good thing about the new Scarlets stadium is that it will be a rugby stadium - terracing is being included for some 3000 fans + the club are assuring people it will have a "rugby club" where fans can get a pint in a real glass before and after the game as well as the usual plastic offerings from within the ground

we are lucky that we do not have to adhere to the rules set by the FA or whoever in relation to all seater stadiums unlike the Ospreys and the Cardiff Blues

Ours will be the only new purpose built rugby stadium in wales

It looks great from the tech drawings etc but would be great to see some sharp digital images

The stadium itself is already underway with the groundworks already completed

maybe you could take some pictures if possible?

London Irish have confirmed that they will stay at the Madjeski stadium in Reading until 2026.
Apparently the expansion to 38,000 starts later in the year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/london_irish/7182651.stm

God, I hate the Madejski stadium. Everything a sporting ground shouldn't be.

http://www.scarletfever.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15093

Link to the Llanelli Scarlets new place as promised ages ago

if you visit the photographs section of the site you will see loads of "progress" pictures - people are down there snapping away every day!!!!

God, I hate the Madejski stadium. Everything a sporting ground shouldn't be.

Elm park was such a nice little ground aswell. I can't stand going to the Madejski its so nasty (mainly because its on the side of a motorway). They won't expand it soon either in their current position.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40859000/gif/_40859750_bath_rugby_plan203.gif

This is the only image I have seen of Baths redeveloped 15,000 seater Rec. Does anyone else have any better ones? If so please post them.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40859000/gif/_40859750_bath_rugby_plan203.gif

This is the only image I have seen of Baths redeveloped 15,000 seater Rec. Does anyone else have any better ones? If so please post them.

That's more than redeveloped, that's completely repositioned - the Rec currently covers the patch of green right in the centre of that image...

I wasn't aware any "images" were available - the last I heard Bath Rugby were simply trying to ascertain exactly what they can and can't do on the site...

The details of the plans for Bristol Memorial Ground can be found on the Bristol Rovers FC website at http://www.bristolrovers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/StadiumPlans/0,,10328,00.html?ptvParm=

http://www.bristolrovers.premiumtv.co.uk/javaImages/cf/ab/0,,10328~2993103,00.jpg

The planning app to increase capacity to an 18,500 all seater stadium was submitted in September but the locals are not happy so it's not going to get an easy ride through to being approved.


Just a quick update, planning permission for a revised scheme (removed the conference centre, reduced the number of beds in the hotel) was approved last night so at the end of this season Bristol Rovers and Rugby club will be moving to temporary venues while this is rebuilt to be ready for the 2011 season.

New version

http://www.bristolrugby.co.uk/images/news/NewMem_300x200.jpg

I think i probably preferred the old design. Looks like they may have been cutted costs down with a new roof. Still a nice ground though.

Scarlets stadium is coming on nicely

images here: http://www.scarlets.co.uk/stadium/

any news on any expansion plans?

Guiness premiership:

Bristol Rugby plans are still moving forward, albeit in (as I understand it) a watered down, and longer-term project, so I wouldn't be surprised to see two stands built and two existing ones remain.

Bath rugby are still threatening to move to Swindon next season apparently. I think redevelopment of the Rec goes to planners soon??

In the Magners league:

Cardiff Blues are moving into their new 26000 capacity ground in the summer, meaning effectively that they have the biggest club rugby ground in britain (discounting Edinburgh at Murrayfield)

Llanelli Scarlets are now in their new stadium parc-y-scarlets, but crowds have been poor, and havent topped 10,000 yet.

Newport Dragons still have plans for Rodney parade. Not sure what the timescales are, but I wouldn't be surprised if the project moved forward.

Munster are now playing in a very impressively redeveloped Thormand Park. 25,000 capacity, and looks really great.

There are also rumours that Saracens might move to Craven Cottage and try and tap into West London's South African expat market...

There are also rumours that Saracens might move to Craven Cottage and try and tap into West London's South African expat market...

That would be a really good move. I've always found it a bit strange, that while west London is traditionally the heartlands of rugby in London, all the clubs bar Harlequins seemed to move out of the area (Saracens to Watford, Wasps to Wycombe and London Irish to Reading)

I suppose there is a precedent in wasps playing at QPR, which was reasonably succesful for a while. I think Saracens would do well at Craven Cottage though. The demographics of the area probably lend itself to supporting an English rugby club. A bit unfair on Watford, but it'd be a good move from the clubs perspective.

It's looking quite likely that there'll be a new council-owned 16,000 seater stadium in Stockport for SCFC and Sale Sharks, at Bridgehall about half a mile from Edgeley Park. Plans drawn up and should be released soon.

I just hope the pitch is better than that at Edgeley Park if it does happen.

Elm park was such a nice little ground aswell. I can't stand going to the Madejski its so nasty (mainly because its on the side of a motorway). They won't expand it soon either in their current position.

Whats wrong with the stadium? Can you give any objective problems. I.E. lack of legroom, Exits, safety, food outlets.

There are also rumours that Saracens might move to Craven Cottage and try and tap into West London's South African expat market...

The rumours have just been scotched though:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/saracens/7899104.stm

That would be a really good move. I've always found it a bit strange, that while west London is traditionally the heartlands of rugby in London, all the clubs bar Harlequins seemed to move out of the area (Saracens to Watford, Wasps to Wycombe and London Irish to Reading)

I suppose there is a precedent in wasps playing at QPR, which was reasonably succesful for a while. I think Saracens would do well at Craven Cottage though. The demographics of the area probably lend itself to supporting an English rugby club. A bit unfair on Watford, but it'd be a good move from the clubs perspective.

I just hope that in the long run more rugby clubs can move beyond being nomadic tenants at various football clubs.

Ideally rugby should try to get hold of Stamford bridge if or when Chelsea decide to build a new stadium. It would be ambitious as its no doubt valuable land but perhaps its possible if two clubs shared the place. Saracens and Wasps perhaps

I just hope that in the long run more rugby clubs can move beyond being nomadic tenants at various football clubs.

You mean more London rugby clubs - outside the capital the only club I can think of currently sharing a soccer ground is Nottingham.

Ideally rugby should try to get hold of Stamford bridge if or when Chelsea decide to build a new stadium. It would be ambitious as its no doubt valuable land but perhaps its possible if two clubs shared the place. Saracens and Wasps perhaps

Complete non-starter - it's too big for both clubs and a very valuable piece of real estate that's worth a lot more to a developer.

There was something on BBC sport about Bath Rugby trying to redevelop the rec to a 15,000-20,000 capacity stadium.

You mean more London rugby clubs - outside the capital the only club I can think of currently sharing a soccer ground is Nottingham.



Complete non-starter - it's too big for both clubs and a very valuable piece of real estate that's worth a lot more to a developer.

Sale, Swansea, Cardiff, but yes I was thinking mainly of London clubs. Its the worst place to drift around.

Of course its valuable land but its not a huge site and with two rugby clubs involved it wouldnt be impossible. Unlike other developers, rugby would also have the advantage of not having to spend heavily on transforming the site.

Possibly, the two end stands could even be knocked down, replaced partly with small open terraces (as Thomond park) and/ or commercial developments which would further help funding. Its the quality of the two side stands that matter most.

Rugby crowds have doubled in the last decade and any investor would believe that to continue and then the ground wouldnt be too big in a decades time. Club rugby is growing and it needs to get back into London

Anyway, I dont think it will happen, simply because I dont think chelsea will leave.

The trouble with club rugby is that it is losing money big time.

I think Saracens are going to hold a couple of games at Wembley but they would have to charge about a pound a ticket to fill it.

Stade Francais currently use the Stade de France for games against Clermont, Biarritz and Toulouse and fill it but again it is almost free. I expect they will use it against Racing Paris next season as well.

Clubs will need to merge in the long run as did football clubs at the beginning of professionalism.

The trouble with club rugby is that it is losing money big time.

I think Saracens are going to hold a couple of games at Wembley but they would have to charge about a pound a ticket to fill it.

Stade Francais currently use the Stade de France for games against Clermont, Biarritz and Toulouse and fill it but again it is almost free. I expect they will use it against Racing Paris next season as well.

Clubs will need to merge in the long run as did football clubs at the beginning of professionalism.

I cant see who should merge or why? Not all clubs lose money. I think its mostly a case of some "wrong" clubs still being in the top division. They just need to accept being relegated if they cant compete at the top level rather than whine so much about the game in general.

Club crowds are growing in both england and France as well as the celtic league and Heineken cup. Income from tv-deals will also increase considerably from next year. The likes of Harlequins, Gloucester, Worcester, Leicester,Northampton, Bath are healthy clubs that manage to fill their grounds and finance expansions. They may soon be joined by the likes of Plymouth, Exeter and Cornwall.

The only real problem in my opinion is getting some of those London clubs back into London.
What Stade Francais is doing in Paris is very impressive. Tickets may be cheap, but they arent free and there is still the considerable hassle and cost of getting to and from the stadium. You can give away tickets and still get low crowds if people simply dont care.


I believe Harlequins are going for an 80,000 crowd on boxing day next season. It shows the potential. Saracens plans also look good, though they should probably wait until Wembley find a way of actually growing grass..

Plymouth, Exeter an Cornwall have no chance of surviving as professional Premiership clubs unless they all merge.The TV market they are in is too small, and people outside that market are simply not interested in them.

For decent TV income to come in clubs will need to recruit top name players. The well run ones operate under the salary cap but are losing players to France which has no salary cap and is also scouring Australian Rugby League for players.

Whats wrong with the stadium? Can you give any objective problems. I.E. lack of legroom, Exits, safety, food outlets.

You are joking aren't you?

Plymouth, Exeter an Cornwall have no chance of surviving as professional Premiership clubs unless they all merge.The TV market they are in is too small, and people outside that market are simply not interested in them.

For decent TV income to come in clubs will need to recruit top name players. The well run ones operate under the salary cap but are losing players to France which has no salary cap and is also scouring Australian Rugby League for players.

they are in the same market as everyone else, the english tv-market and its growing quickly.

Why wouldnt they survive? Each of those club probably average larger second-level crowds than Worcester did some five years ago. They went up and have now quadroupled their crowds. There is no reason those three shouldnt do the same. There is plenty money in the game, thats why the entire second level will be fully profesionalised next season.

The second level has also shrunk. The problem with both codes of Rugby is that they are minority sports. Reduce the number of teams and you increase the number of occasions you see the best players playing.

Outside of Leinster and Munster, Magners League crowds are poor, in the Guiness Premiership, Newcastle and next season Leeds will get crowds that League 1 football clubs would be worried about.

Saracens crowds vary from 5k to 18k whilst Wasps sometimes struggle to fill in High Wycombe

Concentrating in the West Country will make rugby union as marginal as Rugby League.

There is great scope for growth in Rugby Union but it requires less matches so that the internationals get to play in all the club games, less teams in bigger stadia will grow the club game in the national conciousness.

The second level has also shrunk. The problem with both codes of Rugby is that they are minority sports. Reduce the number of teams and you increase the number of occasions you see the best players playing.

Outside of Leinster and Munster, Magners League crowds are poor, in the Guiness Premiership, Newcastle and next season Leeds will get crowds that League 1 football clubs would be worried about.

Saracens crowds vary from 5k to 18k whilst Wasps sometimes struggle to fill in High Wycombe

Concentrating in the West Country will make rugby union as marginal as Rugby League.

There is great scope for growth in Rugby Union but it requires less matches so that the internationals get to play in all the club games, less teams in bigger stadia will grow the club game in the national conciousness.

Well I just disagree. I really dont understand how you can consider growth to be a form of shrinking.

We will never see such regionalisation in England or France and thank god for that. The club culture is too strong. 2 +2 = 0. The system is bankrupt in the south and struggles in Wales, even though that country is so small everyone realises there is no alternative.

The system of playing some games without the top players ( and getting compensation) works fine. As long as the top players are available for most games and all play-offs and Heineken, then its not a problem.

The Premiership will, like the french Top 14, probably soon have a 3-round play-off system like the Heineken cup already has. Thats six weeks of high-profile knock-out games that may eventually all be moved to big stadiums.
Coming straight after the very succesful six-nations its almost one long stream of very high-stake high profile rugby games. Kill the clubs, you kill it all.
They are salivating with envy in Australia and NZ when they look at the northern club-scene while arguing desperately how to save their artificial structure, where crowds are dropping so fast that they are reaching a stage of panic.

At the moment in the Top 14 they just have two semis (this year in Lyon and Bordeaux) and a final.

I'm not advocating the creation of regional teams like the Super 14 but I do forsee some clubs having to come together, precisley because they are losing players to the Top 14. It was only recently that the Premiership clubs where asking for an extra six games to make up lost revenue.

In the Southern Hemisphere apart from New Zealsn, Rugby is a minority sport.

TV execs will not wear club games minus the top players.

Rugby Union has reached a level of physicality that can only shorten players careers and reduce the spectacle if more games are played.

Is there a page specifically on English Premiership rugby grounds and there current capacities on SSC that anyone has seen?

At the moment in the Top 14 they just have two semis (this year in Lyon and Bordeaux) and a final.

I'm not advocating the creation of regional teams like the Super 14 but I do forsee some clubs having to come together, precisley because they are losing players to the Top 14. It was only recently that the Premiership clubs where asking for an extra six games to make up lost revenue.

In the Southern Hemisphere apart from New Zealsn, Rugby is a minority sport.

TV execs will not wear club games minus the top players.

Rugby Union has reached a level of physicality that can only shorten players careers and reduce the spectacle if more games are played.

"tv execs" dont run the sport in the north. Anyway they dont miss the top players, because when they are missing its usually because they are playing in internationals, which are all on tv.

players tire, I agree, but clubs do not. The present system works fine. When there are 10-12 internationals to play every year, you cant create a fixture list that doesnt offer far too much rugby for some or far too little for others if you insist that everyone be available for all games.

Either you have to create another artificial level between club and country as in the south or the national unions should be allowed to pull players from some club games. Only the second option is realistic in England and France.

Top 14 will have a three-round play-off from next year (which England will probably follow if/when they expand to 14 teams) That creates the kind og games that tv seek.And it works. Thats why there were 80,000 + sell outs both for the HC semi two weeks ago and yesterdays GP final and will be for the top 14 final.

Mergers have already happened in France, Stade Bordelaise merged with Begles Bordeaux and Racing Club merged with US Metro.

I can see a time when two of the bigger London clubs will have to merge, possibly Wasps and Saracens.

Don't forget London Irish, London Scottish and Richmond "merged" in 1999.

A strange merger, they are or were effectively franchises, taking on the name and colours of existing clubs without actually being a part of those clubs, because they still exixt as amateur/semi pro outfits.

Something like that needs to happen in Rugby League, a Rochdale/Oldham merger as "Norths" for instance but the clubs still existing as seperate amateur entities.

Yes, it was a bizarre arrangement - the professional elements merged into a new side called London Irish (conveniently reducing Premiership One from 14 to 12 teams), and London Scottish and Richmond had to start again as amateur sides at the bottom of the league pyramid (London Scottish have just been promoted to next season's National One, Richmond will be in National Two South). London Irish Amateur was formed in 1999 but remains part of the London Irish club, and plays in London 3 South West.

Mergers have already happened in France, Stade Bordelaise merged with Begles Bordeaux and Racing Club merged with US Metro.

I can see a time when two of the bigger London clubs will have to merge, possibly Wasps and Saracens.

mergers are not necessairly wrong. Its probaby natural for it to happen from time to time, and I wouldnt be surprised either to see the odd one, especially in London ( though not the clubs you suggested but lower down) The Bordeaux merger is a good example. Mergers between small clubs in a large population area. Of course it can make sense.

What I dont agree with is that some of the present big clubs HAVE to be merged and there be fewer clubs and games etc. We arent going to see a Midlands Rugby playing at Villa park. It should move in the opposite direction. More clubs, hopefully around 30 full-time as in France.

You seem to think I'm advocating regionalised rugby. I'm not, I'm predicting as a matter of personal opinion, that clubs will have to merge because they need sugar daddies or bigger crowds to survive.

Professional Rugby Union is still at the formative stage, the clubs have not built big enough fan bases of diehards who would baulk at merging.

Of course there are exceptions, such as Leicester and Northampton who are very big in their own areas.

But unless clubs like Wasps and Saracens merge or Bristol and Bath then they are going to continue losing players to France.

I think Saracens are going to hold a couple of games at Wembley but they would have to charge about a pound a ticket to fill it.

I think tickets were £10 adults £5 children for the Northampton game, and they managed to half fill it. Probably broke even at best, but as an experiment it was probably a success.

Franklin's Gardens expansion plans confirmed:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/northampton/8258887.stm

If they could get rid of the bingo hall there would be scope for more development and they could use the car park, but there would probably be too much resistance from the old biddy brigade :)

Does anyone have any information on the 'New South Stand' that is being built at the Stoop?

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7261/stand1.jpg

Wondered why they were only pulling in 9,000 this season.

Toulon beat Toulouse infont of 52,000 yesterday, Wilkinson scored all the points.

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/7261/stand1.jpg

It's moved on since then - it was visible in the highlights of Quins v Saracens at the weekend, and as far as I could tell the entire steel frame was covered with concrete terracing. Apparently it's only a temporary stand (?!) and should be open for the Bath game on 3 October.

I've read in Equipe that the French Rugby Union have not extended their contract with the Stade de France and wish to build a "Twickenham Francaise"

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/20090916_103711_ultimatum-sur-le-stade-de-france.html

I've read in Equipe that the French Rugby Union have not extended their contract with the Stade de France and wish to build a "Twickenham Francaise"

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/20090916_103711_ultimatum-sur-le-stade-de-france.html

Sacré bleu! C'est une stratégie très ambitieuse, quand on pense que le XV de France ne joue que trois ou quatre matchs dans la capitale, parce qu'il joue aussi dans les grandes stades du sud du pays (Toulouse, Marseille)...

d'accord

I think tickets were £10 adults £5 children for the Northampton game, and they managed to half fill it. Probably broke even at best, but as an experiment it was probably a success.

I think it was a success. They straight away moved another two games to Wembley later in the season and looking at the relatively low-key nature of those fixtures, its hard not to think that Saracens are looking at making Wembley their full time home.

One of the wembley games is on a six-nations weekend. That doesnt make sense if they are not looking beyond just staging big events there. Its different from France, where only specifically chosen big games are moved.

It could make sense. £10 is cheap but its not dirt cheap. There could well be a good market in London for more affordable sport. And Wembley is pretty much finishing its most hectic period with lots of football games and summer concerts just when the rugby season begins.

It could see a lot of rugby in the near future, not just saracens but possibly wasps as well.

club rugby union seems to be moving in the right direction and at a fast pace.

I wonder if it would finally be financially beneficial to the RFU, the Guinness Premiership and to it's participating teams to finally expand the league to 14 or 15 teams just as Super 14 are doing. Attendances are rapidly increasing along with annual revenues for many of the clubs already in the league. I'd love to see the likes of Exeter, Nottingham and Plymouth in a 15-team Guinness Premiership along with Bristol. Would this work? How would it affect the clubs and club rugby in general?

Too many games. Rugby Union is far too physical to allow extra games to be played. Super 14 don't play home and away, each team only plays 13 games plus a semi and a final if they get that far.

Top 14 in France don't have a domestic cup competition.

Too many games. Rugby Union is far too physical to allow extra games to be played. Super 14 don't play home and away, each team only plays 13 games plus a semi and a final if they get that far.

Top 14 in France don't have a domestic cup competition.

I'm sure people could compromise.

4/6 extra games per season shouldn't affect any of the clubs really, it seems only recently they were vouching for extra games in a season to increase their revenues.

Ive always thought a system similar to that used for football would be interesting if applied to the Premiership. 14/15 teams, the top 4 earning HC places (similar to the top 4 earning CL places in the EPL) then the teams from 5th to 7th-10th each earning places in the CC, with the remaining teams missing out. This would ensure not all teams would have to play "too many games" and only the better teams with the stronger, more developed and talented squads would have the extra European fixtures. While this sounds silly, I dont think it sounds out of the question.

As for the domestic competition, why not include the teams from the national leagues to compete alongside premiership clubs? Not only would it ensure that premiership clubs would most likely enter the competition at a later stage than the clubs from lower leagues (again lowering the amount of games played for clubs in a short space of time) but it would make the competition much more interesting.

I dont think it would be at all impractical for a GP expansion to 14 or 15 teams.

I think the players themselves attacked the idea of extra games in the Premiership. The fans certainly would feel a bit ripped off about playing a selected few teams a third time and crowds would not cover the extra cost.

Having bulked up full time professionals play against part timers would be dangerous.

Rugby is incomparable to football for teo reasons. Firstly it is not very popular, so European competition needs to be as widespread as possible to develop the game. Secondly it's sheer physicality means that the pro teams will always beat the semi pros. There is no point in having a mixed ability cup competition.

club rugby union seems to be moving in the right direction and at a fast pace.

I wonder if it would finally be financially beneficial to the RFU, the Guinness Premiership and to it's participating teams to finally expand the league to 14 or 15 teams just as Super 14 are doing. Attendances are rapidly increasing along with annual revenues for many of the clubs already in the league. I'd love to see the likes of Exeter, Nottingham and Plymouth in a 15-team Guinness Premiership along with Bristol. Would this work? How would it affect the clubs and club rugby in general?

Where would you find the space for the extra four or six games? The Premiership already stretches four or five weeks beyond the traditional eight-month season, and fits around the Heineken and Amlin Cups, the Anglo-Welsh Cup and international weekends. Currently, a successful team could end up playing up to:

24 Guinness Premiership matches
9 Heineken Cup matches
5 Anglo-Welsh matches

and England players face another 8 or 9 Tests during the season (more in a World Cup year) plus summer tours.

Ive always thought a system similar to that used for football would be interesting if applied to the Premiership. 14/15 teams, the top 4 earning HC places (similar to the top 4 earning CL places in the EPL) then the teams from 5th to 7th-10th each earning places in the CC, with the remaining teams missing out. This would ensure not all teams would have to play "too many games" and only the better teams with the stronger, more developed and talented squads would have the extra European fixtures. While this sounds silly, I dont think it sounds out of the question.

The big difference is that in soccer, European games are all played midweek, meaning the clubs that haven't qualified just don't have a game between their weekend league fixtures. In rugby, players need a longer break, and European games are played at the weekend - good luck telling a couple of clubs they have to have several blank weekends.

As for the domestic competition, why not include the teams from the national leagues to compete alongside premiership clubs? Not only would it ensure that premiership clubs would most likely enter the competition at a later stage than the clubs from lower leagues (again lowering the amount of games played for clubs in a short space of time) but it would make the competition much more interesting.

That's how it always used to work, but it was deemed to be impractical, as, unlike in soccer, the minnows don't really stand a chance against full-time Premiership sides.

club rugby union seems to be moving in the right direction and at a fast pace.

I wonder if it would finally be financially beneficial to the RFU, the Guinness Premiership and to it's participating teams to finally expand the league to 14 or 15 teams just as Super 14 are doing. Attendances are rapidly increasing along with annual revenues for many of the clubs already in the league. I'd love to see the likes of Exeter, Nottingham and Plymouth in a 15-team Guinness Premiership along with Bristol. Would this work? How would it affect the clubs and club rugby in general?

It will happen eventually but the lower clubs need to grow a bit more first. If they come up with poor facilities and low crowds, unabled to afford the salary cap, the extra matches will just be slaughters.

For now, I think its right to focus on profesionalising the second level but in the longer run, i would expect two divisions of 14-16 teams.

The number of games isnt that relevant, as the maximum number of games for an individual player need not change. Its already impossible to play all games for both club and country anyway. The domestic championships will inevitably continue to act as a buffer, a competition for squads where clubs must rotate their players.

A couple of announcements recently - it seems inevitable that Bath will need to leave The Rec, and Wasps are aiming to build a new 20,000-seat stadium in High Wycombe:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/my_club/bath/8446916.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/6874794/Wasps-new-stadium-in-High-Wycombe-area-will-push-club-to-next-level.html

Thanks charlieP for that. Its a real shame that Bath can not redevelop the Rec, but I hope they can move into a new home close to the centre at some point.

It has been announced that Headingley will get a new South Stand (main terrace along side of pitch), construction beginning in November this year - no further details yet released. Hopefully Carnegie will still be in the Prem by then.

It has been announced that Headingley will get a new South Stand (main terrace along side of pitch), construction beginning in November this year - no further details yet released. Hopefully Carnegie will still be in the Prem by then.

This November's probably the best time for them to start, as Carnegie will probably be back in the Championship for a season so won't need the capacity. :D

It has been announced that Headingley will get a new South Stand (main terrace along side of pitch), construction beginning in November this year - no further details yet released. Hopefully Carnegie will still be in the Prem by then.

PS Where did you read/hear the announcement? I've searched online but can't see anything pertinent...

Carnegie can get by without the South Stand, Premiership or not!!

Here is the link...
http://www.therhinos.co.uk/fanzone/southstand.php

Wasps should move back to london and build a 20k stadium there (or ground share). That way they can better expand as a club and increase support.

A 20k stadium in London would probably cost three* times as much as a 20k stadium in Wycombe though.


* number plucked out of my arse.

Wasps should move back to london and build a 20k stadium there (or ground share). That way they can better expand as a club and increase support.

Brentford's new ground?

Brentford's new ground?

my thoughts exactly.

Would Bath get permission to redevelop their training ground, on the road into town?

Would Bath get permission to redevelop their training ground, on the road into town?

Apparently that's not a viable site for a stadium, I just can't remember why.

Apparently that's not a viable site for a stadium, I just can't remember why.

I believe it would make the road that its on which is the busiest in Bath, even more busy with traffic. The training ground is also next to the river which during the winter always floods. I have heard they were considering using the land where the old gas works were just outside the centre of Bath. However I would really like them to redevelop the Rec as it is the perfect location.

I have heard they were considering using the land where the old gas works were just outside the centre of Bath.

The Western Riverside site. A property development company already has plans for housing there, but I don't know how definite that is:

http://www.bathwesternriverside.co.uk/assets/pdfs/bwr_summer07.pdf

However I would really like them to redevelop the Rec as it is the perfect location.

I have very fond memories of watching Bath play at the Rec back in the 80s, but sadly redeveloping the Rec into a modern rugby stadium just isn't possible.

Here is an article in today's Guardian about plans for Bath to possibly get a new 25,000 stadium, as the club have just been bought by a new owner. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/apr/14/bath-the-rec-bruce-craig

I hope they are able to rebuild the stadium on the Rec's current site.

Here is an article in today's Guardian about plans for Bath to possibly get a new 25,000 stadium, as the club have just been bought by a new owner. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/apr/14/bath-the-rec-bruce-craig[/QOUTE]

Interesting stuff - thanks. There was a feature on today's Rugby Club about Bath's new owner and how the training facilities and club office are moving, but there wasn't much about a new stadium.

I hope they are able to rebuild the stadium on the Rec's current site.

There's no way they'll be able to build a bigger stadium on the Rec - sad as it will be to see the club move, a new site is the only real option for expansion. Presumably the "brownfield site" mentioned in the fourth paragraph is Western Riverside.

There's no way they'll be able to build a bigger stadium on the Rec - sad as it will be to see the club move, a new site is the only real option for expansion. Presumably the "brownfield site" mentioned in the fourth paragraph is Western Riverside.

I think there is some room to rebuild at the rec but not much. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.382181,-2.35557&spn=0.00292,0.010525&t=h&z=17 If Bath RFC were able to build 2 larger permanent stands along the length of the pitch, these could hold most of the attendance, and then 2 smaller stands at both ends of the pitch, these plus cornors might be able to reach 20,000+ capacity. Unfortunately at one of the end stands their isn't any room to go further backwards as their is a row of houses. On the opposite end they have the Bath sports centre building. Their were reports in the local press some time ago about this being rebuilt to enable any new stand that Bath RFC might need. If this could still be the case that would help with any new stadium design. I think the main problem with the Rec, is the fact that the land is owned by a charity and they don't want the land to have permanent structures on it, hence why one length of the pitch has temporary stands. If this could be resolved then fantastic, but its unlikely.

The brownfield site mentioned is probably the Western Riverside development, as you mentioned. I think this would be a good location for a stadium should a re-build at The Rec not happen. The Guardian article also mentioned Farleigh House, as locations for Bath RFC. I really hope this is not the case as this would take the club right out of the city.

Here is a BBC news clip on this topic. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8034102.stm

That's a really old clip - the land swap proposal mentioned never got anywhere, and Bath Rugby (formerly Bath FC, but never Bath RFC :)) can't build a permanent stand in the middle of the Rec and can't increase their current footprint on it.

Was at Wembley yesterday for Saracens - Harlequins. A bargain, ten pounds for a huge padded seat on the middle deck.

You're a long way from the pitch though, Twickenham has a better view.

That's a really old clip - the land swap proposal mentioned never got anywhere, and Bath Rugby (formerly Bath FC, but never Bath RFC :)) can't build a permanent stand in the middle of the Rec and can't increase their current footprint on it.

Yes I know the clip was about a year old, but it helped explain the situation. Well if the new owners were able to get an agreement with this charity that owns the Rec, to build a permanent stand where their is currently a temporary stands, then that would allow them to get a larger footprint. Maybe not at the two ends of the pitch, the stands their would have to be small, but they certainly would be able to build two large stands on the lengths of the pitch. Possibly something similar in size to Thomond Park in Limerick, Ireland. http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/ireland/limerick_thomond.shtml It would be great if Bath Rugby could get something like that.

Yes I know the clip was about a year old, but it helped explain the situation. Well if the new owners were able to get an agreement with this charity that owns the Rec, to build a permanent stand where their is currently a temporary stands, then that would allow them to get a larger footprint. Maybe not at the two ends of the pitch, the stands their would have to be small, but they certainly would be able to build two large stands on the lengths of the pitch. Possibly something similar in size to Thomond Park in Limerick, Ireland. http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/ireland/limerick_thomond.shtml It would be great if Bath Rugby could get something like that.

Trust me, they've been trying for years and years, and it's incredibly unlikely to happen. They still have to apply each year for permission for the temporary stand. The Rec is "owned", rather held in trust, by Bath City Council, as it was beqeathed to the people of Bath "as a recreational facility available for the benefit of the public at large." The terms of the trust specify the Rec should be used for "games and sports of all kinds, tournaments, fetes, shows, exhibitions, displays, amusements, entertainments, or other activities of a like character" and there be no "undue preference to or in favour of any particular game or sport".

The High Court has actually ruled that Bath Rugby's use of the Rec for professional rugby is inconsistent with this, but they're being allowed temporary leases until a permanent solution can be found.

Which is as it should be. I'm all in favour of decent city centre stadia, but the needs of a business should not outweigh the need for recreation land available to all in a built up area. Newcastle United have faced similar issues. Bath can have a romantic compromise, or build something exciting and fit for purpose.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8641/2671781180.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/2671781180.jpg/)

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/northampton_saints_launch_stadium_expansion_plan_1_3068738

time for an update:

Bath - 10,600 - Plans being prepared to apply for 15,000 capacity arena at the Rec.
The rec was expanded to 12200 a couple of years ago. However there is still no progress in getting planning permission to expand further and Bath's owner is talking about building a new stadium.

Exeter Chiefs - 10744 New to the Premiership last season they stayed up and have been rewarded for gradually expanding and improving their Sandy Park stadium.

Gloucester - 12,500 - Plans have been mooted to rebuild one stand - which would take attendance over 15k - more detail expected by end of 06/07 season.
The ground was expanded to 16500 a couple of years ago and although there were rumours of further expansion, its unlikely with crowds at around 75-80% of capacity and only 1 or 2 sell outs a year.

Leicester Tigers - 16,815 - Have purchased freehold of Welford Rd with view to developing ground to 25k+ over 10 years.
Expanded to 24,000 a couple of seasons ago. Further plans for the next stage have been announced but they do not affect the capacity
:http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/New-Crumbie-Stand-pipeline-Leicester-Tigers/story-12089744-detail/story.html

London Irish - 24,100 - Ground share with Reading FC. First class stadium which meets all criteria but no primacy of tenure.
Still tennants at the Madejski satdium. Reading FC have shelved plans to expand.

London Wasps - 10,000 - Ground share with Wycombe FC. Plans to develop and increase capacity to 15k announced July 2006 to include new access road. No timescales confirmed.
Plan to build a new joint Wycombe Wanderers/Wasps stadium in High Wycombe have fallen through. Wasps are still tennants at Adams Park with crowds falling in the last couple of seasons. The club has been put up for sale by the owner. Its unknown whether any new owner would move the club or remain at Adams park.

NEC Harlequins - 12,700 - Have recently developed one stand at cost of £8m to take capacity to 12,700. Outline plans to develop another stand to take capacity up to around 15k.
Ground expanded to 14816 a couple of seasons ago.

Newcastle Falcons - 10,200 - Have recently developed ground - now all seater and covered. No plans for further development.
Still there with no real changes to the ground although the rugby club had to sell the ground back to Northumbria University.

Northampton Saints - 13,500 - One further stand to develop to take capacity to 15k+.
New plans announced. See last page

Sale Sharks - 10,641 - Ground share with Stockport County (owned by chairman of Sale Sharks) No development plans at present..
Still at Edgeley park although Sales owner has talked about a ground share with Salford RL at their new stadium:

Saracens - 19,108 - Ground share with Watford. Large though old fashioned stadium – ground improvement plans recently announced.
Plan to leave watford where they get woeful crowds for a 10K stadium in Copthall, North London. Have resubmitted plans http://copthallrevival.co.uk/ and are waiting for approval from the local concil. Still play occassional loss-leading games at Wembley.

Worcester - 10,221 - Have recently increased capacity to over 10k - plans to increase further to 13,200 by 2008.
Expanded to 12068 a few years ago.

Bristol - 11,976 - Ground share at Bristol Rovers, who have plans to develop. Can play one-off games at Bristol City’s ground - 21,000.
No longer in the premiership, they are still tennants at the Memorial ground. Bristol Rovers have plans for a new stadium and have invited the rugby club to continue as tennants.

NOTE: Premier rugby dropped the plan to introduce a minimum capacity of 15K. This criteria is currently still set at 10K.

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Worcester - 10,221 - Have recently increased capacity to over 10k - plans to increase further to 13,200 by 2008.
Expanded to 12068 a few years ago.


Think there is also a plan to redevelop the North stand (the semi-temporary one at one end). Not sure i'm timescales. Think when the East Stand was rebuilt they were going to follow on fairly shortly after but have a feeling relegation in 2010 may have put those plans on hold. Hopefully that will be resurrected now they're back in the Premiership.

Worcester have continuing plans but nothing for expansion of the stadium at the moment.

On site a new hotel and David Lloyd fitness centre are due to be the next things constructed. Believe they were given thumbs up a few weeks ago.

Worcester have continuing plans but nothing for expansion of the stadium at the moment.

On site a new hotel and David Lloyd fitness centre are due to be the next things constructed. Believe they were given thumbs up a few weeks ago.

Yeah, don't think anything with the North Stand is imminent. The stadium section of the website basically says that plans are approved to redevelop North stand in line with the East stand but basically says 'in the future' or something to that effect.