..

onix i'm afraid you need something to sustain all these resi developments, unlike brum and manc, there are no HUGE office developments in the pipeline, no Media establishments making a home there, no new major hotels or conference facilities, no large leisure amenities etc...

A balance needs to be addressed or Leeds will reach saturation point before any large city in the UK if they aren't careful. And that's no laughing matter.

p.s. there's nothing wrong with a bit of rivalry, it's like the NY v Chicago skyscraper race, but in a smaller, modern Northern UK version, i just see it as taller towers for both cities in the long run! And admittedly Lumiere is likely to hold the title for a short period, but usually Manc isn't always greedy, we like to give the title to another city then take it back again a few months later, like we did with Brum last year! :)

..

I could if i want! Haha, well i could put Greater Manchester, but it's a bit long winded! After alll, i do have an 'M' postcode, an 0161 number and my Yellow Pages is a Manchester Central one and i live inside the M60 Manchester Outer Ring Road, served by Gtr Manchester fire, police and ambulance services, but yes i was born in Salford and Eccles has been part of the City of Salford since the 70's, but as i'm the one who lives here, then i have a greater right to put either/or on my signature don't you think! :lol:

onix i'm afraid you need something to sustain all these resi developments, unlike brum and manc, there are no HUGE office developments in the pipeline, no Media establishments making a home there, no new major hotels or conference facilities, no large leisure amenities etc...

A balance needs to be addressed or Leeds will reach saturation point before any large city in the UK if they aren't careful. And that's no laughing matter.

p.s. there's nothing wrong with a bit of rivalry, it's like the NY v Chicago skyscraper race, but in a smaller, modern Northern UK version, i just see it as taller towers for both cities in the long run! :)



Lets get a few home truth's here. Firstly, Leeds has the opportunity for HUGE office developments just a much as Manc or Brum. Last month, The Government official figures stated:

According to the Government's latest Annual Business Inquiry figures, Leeds now has the largest number of people employed in financial and business services of any UK city outside London.

Fact, and that means office requirements in this city certainly compete with Brum if not at present with Manc.

No new major hotels. Leeds has had one of the fastest growth in hotels in the last 5 or so years of any UK city. There are no fewer than 10x 4 star hotels, 1x 5 star, and numerous 3 star hotels. As we speak, an Etap Hotel has just opened its doors, City Inn has started construction, a new Village Hotel starts construction shortly, and 5 new city hotels are in the pipeline.

Although you are right, our concert/conference facilities are lacking, you will probably be aware that the City Council are moving forward with a world class proposal, and will probably invest a proportion of its massive wealth from the sale of Leeds Bradford International Airport.

Finally, media, and apart from London and the soon to be built Media City in Manchester, no other city in the UK can compete. Leeds is without doubt number 3 in terms of media establishmemts. We have the BBC regional headquarters, YTV with one of the largest TV production facilities in the UK, producing more programming than almost all other ITV centres.

We also have 2 regional radio stations (Real/Galaxy) based in thre city, and Galaxy is the largest commercial radio station outside London for listeners. We also have 2 further commercial stations, 2 community stations, and the base for in-store radio for Asda and other high street names. We have a regional morning and evening newspaper with 5 suburban papers.

Finally, Leeds has more ad agencies and creative companies than any city apart from London and yes Manchester, but I think if you are comparing cities, unfortunately Brum does not compete in media/financial terms. Don't underestimate the wealth and economic power Leeds has developed in the last 10 years or so

What a lovely post m)) Gotta love the Leeds!

I think Chogmok is misinformed about what is in Leeds, and what is about to happen in Leeds (Eastgate and Wellington Place developments). However, I think there is need to think about sustainability, as Chogmook suggests.

I personally like the idea of building upwards as it stops urban sprawl but I don't know of the insentives of living in high buildings and would therefor be dubious about living in one.

High rise living brings cramped conditions with very little outdoor space but does place tens or even hundreds of times more living space on the same floor plate that low rise living would afford. Of course, this means tens or hundreds times less urban sprawl. For this reason, I think governments and city councils should really promote high rise living; even offering green living council tax rebates (as urban sprawl is of course a green issue). Without any insentives, I do worry that the current rate of developement is at the height of sustainability.

Why did you decide to get a flat a BWP markie (and any others who have a high rise flat)?

onix i'm afraid you need something to sustain all these resi developments, unlike brum and manc, there are no HUGE office developments in the pipeline, no Media establishments making a home there, no new major hotels or conference facilities, no large leisure amenities etc...


Not true, The massive Wellington Place and Monksbridge both have large swathes of office space in the pipeline, also City Sq House, No7 Whitehall, Prince William House and now Bridge House will all provide at least 10,000m2 of office floorspace in the medium term future (2 to 3 years away). As for media, Leeds is one of the top centres for media, leisure ... well we're working on it with plans in the pipeline for a good size arena, Shopping and other leisure, conference facilities, casinos and hotels are all increasing all the time.

Chogmook

"Manchester - The WORLD's FIRST Industrialised City!"

Interesting signature, has history rewritten itself? I thought the industrial revolution actually began in Bradford, then simultaneously across the North of England & Scotland?

Nope we wrote history in fact!

"The factory system was largely responsible for the rise of the modern city, as workers migrated into the cities in search of employment in the factories. Nowhere was this better illustrated than the mills and associated industries of Manchester, nicknamed Cottonopolis, and arguably the world's first industrial city."

It's a fact that it is the first Industrialised CITY, anyway, this is about Lumiere, which i must concede as being the most attractive 'scraper to be proposed outside london! :cheers:

Not true, The massive Wellington Place and Monksbridge both have large swathes of office space in the pipeline, also City Sq House, No7 Whitehall, Prince William House and now Bridge House will all provide at least 10,000m2 of office floorspace in the medium term future (2 to 3 years away). As for media, Leeds is one of the top centres for media, leisure ... well we're working on it with plans in the pipeline for a good size arena, Shopping and other leisure, conference facilities, casinos and hotels are all increasing all the time.

You'll need a lot more, i.e. 100,000m2+, which'll all need to be filled, but i do believe the more resi's you fill, the more attractive it'll appear to office tenants, due to the closeness of potential workers, all in good time though!

I think once Lumiere goes up people will take notice of Leeds a bit more, just like Beetham did for Manchester, when something of this size goes up it says something about the city. Beetham has made people take Manchester seriously and has catalysed their developments, Lumiere will make people take notice of Leeds much more especially seen as Manchester was perhaps a city more expected to get a skyscraper thsn Leeds but Leeds getting one of this size says a lot as to how far Leeds has progressed as a city.

I think once Lumiere goes up people will take notice of Leeds a bit more, just like Beetham did for Manchester, when something of this size goes up it says something about the city. Beetham has made people take Manchester seriously and has catalysed their developments, Lumiere will make people take notice of Leeds

There's a whole lot more than just one building that makes people take a city seriously !

I think once Lumiere goes up people will take notice of Leeds a bit more, just like Beetham did for Manchester, when something of this size goes up it says something about the city. Beetham has made people take Manchester seriously and has catalysed their developments, Lumiere will make people take notice of Leeds much more especially seen as Manchester was perhaps a city more expected to get a skyscraper thsn Leeds but Leeds getting one of this size says a lot as to how far Leeds has progressed as a city.

I seem to remember saying the same about Bridgewater Place and now look what we're getting. So it really does seem to be a catalyst for future developments.

Nope we wrote history in fact!

"The factory system was largely responsible for the rise of the modern city, as workers migrated into the cities in search of employment in the factories. Nowhere was this better illustrated than the mills and associated industries of Manchester, nicknamed Cottonopolis, and arguably the world's first industrial city."



Ok; firstly where was this quote from? Secondly, this says "arguably the first industrialised city"; your claim is therefore based on one authors (was he manchunian perhaps?) suggestion that this COULD have been the case. So please don't possit it as some fact.

Ok; firstly where was this quote from? Secondly, this says "arguably the first industrialised city"; your claim is therefore based on one authors (was he manchunian perhaps?) suggestion that this COULD have been the case. So please don't possit it as some fact.

:nuts:

Take it to city bashing will you, where i'm sure you will learn a little bit more about history. Thanks.

I wasn't city bashing at all. I was merely suggesting that it seems like there is some regional bias in the article you quoted. Why else would you suggest one city being "arguably" the fist industialised city without providing evidence for why thisa makes a GOOD argument. Maybe you should learn a little about temporal realism my dear sir.

what's the first industrial city in Britain got to do with Lumiere Chogmook

what's the first industrial city in Britain got to do with Lumiere Chogmook

To be fair, he didn't bring it up. It's just an old fasioned regional slobbernocker

..

Is there any development started on site yet, anything worth me going down to have a look at lunchtime?

No namsingh there is no point & wont be for a fair few months yet

You'll need a lot more, i.e. 100,000m2+, which'll all need to be filled, but i do believe the more resi's you fill, the more attractive it'll appear to office tenants, due to the closeness of potential workers, all in good time though!

I think the list I mentioned will total well over 100,000m2, filling them all will of course take a little longer, but grade A space is always under-supplied in Leeds. No office accomodation in Lumiere, although there may be some planned in Criterion.

who gives a damm anyway LOL

You seem to be saying that quite a lot lately, Onyx !

I think the list I mentioned will total well over 100,000m2, filling them all will of course take a little longer, but grade A space is always under-supplied in Leeds. No office accomodation in Lumiere, although there may be some planned in Criterion.
I always thought there were around 10 floors of office space in the shorter Lumiere tower.

I always thought there were around 10 floors of office space in the shorter Lumiere tower.

I'm sure that it was mentioned that the top 3 floors of tower 1 was also office space ?

Tower 1 floors 50 & 51 are offices about 15,000 sq.ft

Tower 2 floors 1-10 are office about 110,000 sq.ft

I always thought there were around 10 floors of office space in the shorter Lumiere tower.

Whoops, yes of course there is, that's the 'Scarborough' bit of the project, I was getting mixed up with Criterion (it's a sympton of waiting so long for a start on site date for both projects now).

From the International Herald Tribune, based in Paris.

Large at Leeds: A vertical village
Yoo, a U.K. developer, is building up

By Shelley Emling
Published: March 30, 2007

LONDON: Yoo, a U.K. developer, is building up
Ask most culture-conscious people about the city of Leeds in northern England and they will probably think of a live concert album that The Who recorded in 1970.
But Leeds, a former textile city of 700,000, is about to be known for something a whole lot bigger: a 54-story twin-tower development called the Lumiere that is set to be the tallest residential skyscraper in western Europe when it is completed in 2010.
One of the project's loudest cheerleaders is John Hitchcox, the co-founder of Yoo, the London-based development company that is helping to build the Lumiere.
Under the leadership of Hitchcox's business partner, the French designer Philippe Starck, Yoo is designing the project's public spaces as well as its 608 luxury apartments, which will be priced starting at £350, or nearly $700, per square foot - not extravagant for world cities like London or Paris, but a big jump for Leeds.
The Lumiere, along with some 30 other Yoo projects around the world, are all part of a plan to raise "vertical villages" at a time when an increasing proportion of the population lives alone, Hitchcox said.
"Society is changing, with more single-person households, many who want to be in the city center," he said in a recent interview.
A portion of the Lumiere apartments will be designed and priced for those over 55 - a nod to an age group that has been pouring back into the city center from the suburbs, Hitchcox said. And the Lumiere's twin towers are to be linked by a winter garden, which will be enclosed but open to the public.
"These days it's all about trying to replicate the atmosphere of a traditional village in an urban environment," Hitchcox said.
Anton Bilton, chairman of the property developer Raven Mount, which is partnering with Yoo on a development in the Cotswolds, west of London, called Hitchcox one of the few "world developers."
"He's possibly unique in that definition," Bilton said, "with projects on every continent and an extraordinary ability to spot world trends on how we want to live."
And how we want to live, according to Hitchcox, is in tall buildings with lots of common space and built-in amenities like shops and services.
"We're going from a product-driven market filled with cookie-cutter properties to one that is definitely more design- and service-driven," Hitchcox said.
But is this vision a smart one in a world growing jittery about property prices in overheated markets? In Britain, for example, house prices have tripled over the past decade, and property values have already started to soften in many markets that were once thought invulnerable.
Liam Bailey, head of residential research at Knight Frank in London, acknowledged the criticism of urban towers being risky, but said that market forces actually supported the construction of new city-center housing.
"We do not build enough properties to meet demand," he said. "And with land prices going up, it just makes more economic sense to build up."
Yoo has a lot of experience building up. Many of the company's other projects are also tall residential towers. They can be found in places as diverse as Mexico, Panama, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, Sydney, Toronto, Tel Aviv, Puerto Rico, Hong Kong and even Bulgaria, where a 650-apartment complex is going up on the Black Sea coast.
Yoo's most ambitious project at the moment is the three-tower Icon Brickell complex on the Miami waterfront. It will boast 1,855 apartments when completed in January 2008, and is worth $1.2 billion.
With so many projects around the world to visit, it's no wonder Hitchcox has acquired platinum cards from both Virgin and British Airways, or that he accumulated 200,000 air miles last year on his BA card alone.
But Hitchcox doesn't mind. Development seems to be in his blood. The second of five children and the son of an architect, Hitchcox made his leap into real estate while still a teenager: He and a friend persuaded "a gullible banker" to loan them enough money to buy a "two-up, two-down" house in Surrey, England, he said, which they promptly converted into apartments and sold.
"Then I did another and another and another," he said.
In 1991, Hitchcox made a mark on the London development scene by starting the Manhattan Loft Company to convert decrepit industrial buildings into some of the most coveted properties in the capital.
Today, the conversions are still visible in posh neighborhoods like Fulham and Notting Hill.
Hitchcox left Manhattan Loft in 1998, he said.

Yoo, which Hitchcox started in 1999, brings together his sense of property values with the creative forces of Starck, a co-founder, and Jade Jagger, a budding designer and the daughter of Mick Jagger.
Jagger's first project for Yoo was the design of The Jade, a 57-unit building in the Manhattan neighborhood of Chelsea. Its one-to-three-bedroom apartments feature high ceilings and "pods," or kitchens and bathrooms with retractable, lacquered walls that hide unused sections from view.
"They are a bit like jewelry boxes," Hitchcox said.
While projects in well-developed city centers may draw attention, Yoo's partners remain attracted to the idea that property development can lead urban development.
Starck cited the Asahi Beer Hall project, which he designed in 1989 and which has drawn new life to a marginal area of Tokyo. The Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, designed by the architect Frank Gehry, has also shown how one project can change a place, he said.
"I always try to work with intelligent people," Starck said, "people who want to build a new society for the future, who don't just follow along."

Nice find Di Livio

are all part of a plan to raise "vertical villages" at a time when an increasing proportion of the population lives alone, Hitchcox said.
"Society is changing, with more single-person households, many who want to be in the city center," he said in a recent interview.

I suppose you could say that's quite true, is for me anyway.

Found this on the list of recently approved applications. I thought Lumiere already had full planning permission but obviously I was wrong.

06/01622/FU/C Applicant - Lumiere LP

Erection of 32 storey and 54 storey development with connecting covered public winter garden, comprising 838 flats, offices, health centre, ground floor retail uses (class A1, A3, A4 and A5) with basement car parking

Land Bounded By
Wellington Street,
Whitehall Road and
Northern Street
Leeds
LS1 1QQ

Approved 04/04/07

Ooo err...

Maybe this has something to do with that access road problem I was harping on about earlier from when I got the pictures in the planning office? Maybe this was what they werde holding out for, and now they have it, full steam ahead? *hopes*

Lumiere next Tuesday! (Probably doesn't mean a thing unless you're an Apple person...)

Subliving.

When it was approved by the councillors last year, it was a form of approval where they agree to approve in principle and delegate the final approval to the planning officer (who we know is as keen as we are to see it go up). I assume this means they have ironed out all the fine detail and this is the final approval announced.

Some men on site today, no equipment though, I think they were doing a bit more tidying up.

Thats great news, for sure ! Work on the site starting soon I hope :banana:

Same here lets hope this does start soon as wasn't this meant to commence by now but anyway I really am looking forward to commence construction as this really be a great new land mark for Leeds when constructed? Presumably when construction begins the ground breaking will be featured on the local news?

I always had April mentally scetched into my head, so perhaps things are going to plan.

:cheers:

mid 2007 is when it starts apparently. Take that to mean what you want.

Just found this on QS...

News - 15/03/2006 -

QS bags £225m tower deal



Burnley Wilson Fish has been named QS on architect Ian Simpson’s £225 million La Lumiere tower scheme in Leeds.


Dual skyscrapers, 170m and 112m tall, are planned featuring 800 apartments and 930m2 of office space.


The project, engineered by WSP, is being financed through a 50:50 joint venture between Scarborough Development Group and KW Linfort.


However, the scheme faces a grilling when it goes before the architectural watchdog CABE next Wednesday.


A first stage tender has been issued to Multiplex, Laing O’Rourke and Carilion. KW Linfoot said it expected tenders back by the end of March.


Commenting on the deal, KW Linfoot’s Richard Dean told QS Week the company was “looking for another, similar development to develop with Ian Simpson.”

http://www.qsweek.com/nav?page=qsweek.news.main&view_resource=4538698

oops

oops
Wasn't implying a start date.. Just found the news on the net and not heard anything on this link, or the quoted Linfoot Simpson venture.

I mentioned it in an earlier post that it probably would be June ! But not one for turning down a bet I'll go for July the 9th ! :|

Yeh sorry about thta markie. I only noticed after I wrote.

This is quite a good source of info too:

http://www.glenigan.com/news/asp/building_detailpage.asp?nid=DR3320061201053~DR3020060315004

Anyone on here heard of the possibility of another 10 floors being added to the albany assets Crown Tower in Manchester, may end up rivalling this one in height...

Anyone on here heard of the possibility of another 10 floors being added to the albany assets Crown Tower in Manchester, may end up rivalling this one in height...

No, but there's rumours that your Eastgate is to be scaled down

Anyone on here heard of the possibility of another 10 floors being added to the albany assets Crown Tower in Manchester, may end up rivalling this one in height...

It's of no consequence anyway, Eastgate will be taller once it is built. It's about which will be built first now.

Subliving.

Well if Eastgate is bigger, it still a lot uglier. If manchester are gunna make something really tall, can they make soemthing better looking?

Eastgate isn't ugly, its just not as stunning as Lumiere. I've always said I'd take Lumiere's looks over Eastgate's status as tallest resi

Our girls in Manc are nicer to look at, hence why we don't need 'stunning' buildings to distract the eye:jk: !

It's of no consequence anyway, Eastgate will be taller once it is built. It's about which will be built first now.

Subliving.


Don't forget, Crown will have to be re-submitted for planning, so there's a few months delay, plus, the old 5 storey building on the site now needs to be razed.

Our girls in Manc are nicer to look at, hence why we don't need 'stunning' buildings to distract the eye:jk: !

lol, Beside the jokes though, and just to raise it again, Leeds has been voted sexiest city in that young person railcard thing; so it must be true- haha!

Aye, but the Manc students tend to get the bus down Wlmslow Rd or Trams into the city, so not many use railcards round here! :lol:

Our girls in Manc are nicer to look at, hence why we don't need 'stunning' buildings to distract the eye:jk: !

Ah well, our guys are waaaaaay hotter. :lol:

Subliving.

Id say the girls and guys in Leeds are both quite hot! I saw the Look North report betwen Leeds/Sheffield/Bradford, and at least with Sheffield/Bradford, Leeds absolutely excelled. Sheffield didnt stand a chance!

Id say the girls and guys in Leeds are both quite hot! I saw the Look North report betwen Leeds/Sheffield/Bradford, and at least with Sheffield/Bradford, Leeds absolutely excelled. Sheffield didnt stand a chance!

That may be the case, but have you ever been to Barnsley? They guys there... omg! They must be putting something in the water there, they're all stunners! Tuesday night in Barnsley used to make me behave like a kid in a sweet shop!

As for the lasses, I'd probably say York has some of the nicest our county has to offer.

Subliving.

Our girls in Manc are nicer to look at, hence why we don't need 'stunning' buildings to distract the eye:jk: !

I am from another country altogether and I live in Leeds. But I've been to Manchester a few times. And I am being objective here, Leeds is absolutely hot. Probably, the best looking and sexiest people in the whole of U.K.

Nah, York doesnt have much going for it. All the people are either:
On Bikes
Walking Dogs
Tourists (particularly little chinese people with their polaroids)
Ghosts

I spotted this baby when walking around Sydney last week. The marketing peeps that come up with resi development names must have a very easy life!

http://www.lumieresydney.com.au/lumiere/html3/home/home/index.html

Just been up the Jinmao tower in Shanghai this morning, 4th tallest building in the world! :) Flying back home tomorrow :cry:

I spotted this baby when walking around Sydney last week. The marketing peeps that come up with resi development names must have a very easy life!


You could just travel across the Pennines to see another Lumiere (http://www.marlborough-brickwork.co.uk/projects/portfolio/lumierebuilding) - could save yourself a fortune on ticket!

.....well anyway. I'm sure that the most recent press utterances suggested a June start on site. Don't be disspirited by a lack of action so far, the sales chatter has been that the apartments are selling incredibly well - unsurprisingly. I doubt they even need to hit the national press with advertising.

I thought they had sold out! Witch is great for the developer but most that have got a flat will rent or sell on when built. I know 3 people that have a flat in tower 1 & 2 are going to rent & the other is not sure, rent or make a quick buck.

..Towering glories as cities join the designer set
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 09/11/2006
Daily Telegraph


The Bilbao Effect is stimulating breathtaking architecture in neglected areas, says Ed Dorrell

A contest that has been simmering for some years in England's northern cities to become home to the biggest, brashest and best architecture has burst in to life.


Source of inspiration: Frank Gehry's Guggenheim gallery in Bilbao
Towns and cities from Manchester to Newcastle, via almwost everywhere in-between, are competing to take on and build exceptional, and often 'wacky', designs.

Residential skycrapers, galleries and bridges are sprouting up all over the north in what appears an almost indiscriminate pattern.

The reason for this unlikely phenomenon is the 'Bilbao Effect', an argument that was born out of the exceptional economic benefits enjoyed by the Basque capital after the opening of an extraordinary new Guggenheim gallery by superstar architect Frank Gehry.

Bring amazing architecture to a neglected area, the argument goes, and it will attract investment and middle-class residents, consequently regenerating previously run-down areas.

This easy-to-understand idea is now the accepted doctrine among almost all council planners around the North who are desperate to regenerate their cities or see them die. The support for the Bilbao argument was brought into focus at the end of last month when one of the biggest names in global design, Philippe Starck, confirmed that he would take on the interiors design of a vast new tower development in Leeds called Lumiere.

Starck, whose more familiar workplaces are in London, Paris and New York, follows in the footsteps of designer Wayne Hemingway who had set the pace for design working with architects and builders on the Staiths South Bank housing development along the quay from Gateshead Quayside in Tyne and Wear.


Model development: housing in Tyne and Wear at Staiths South Bank

Starck can't often head up to windy, rainy Yorkshire. But visit he will as he works on the pair of towers, that are also the undertaking of another big-name architect, Ian Simpson, who has skyscrapers planned for almost every city in Britain.

This developer claims that Lumiere will be - at 52 storeys - the largest residential building in Europe, a claim previously made by another Simpson scheme, the Beetham Tower in Manchester. Indeed, for years the business of regeneration in Britain's neglected north was dominated by Manchester.

While Newcastle could claim the best new 'views' - think the Baltic Gallery, the Millennium Bridge and the Sage Music Centre - Manchester had led the way in the design-led residential development. It was also home to uber-trendy Urban Splash, a vastly successful design-led development company. For a while, Manchester appeared to be running away with the design-led regeneration race.

Manchester was dominant in loft-living and warehouse conversions. But the arrival of Starck in Leeds signals that this has now been blown wide open. One local figure that looks set to benefit heavily from Leeds' new confidence is Chris Jones, a partner at Carey Jones Architects whose development on the site of an old Odeon cinema is one of daring innovation.

"There appears to be a healthy competition between cities. The higher you aim the more you can achieve. It also doesn't hurt to bring an outsider in and make local people think about what is possible," he says.

But it is not just cities that are wading into this architectural contest. Some of the most deprived towns - those that appeared locked in a downward spiral of economic deprivation - are in with a chance. Councils in such places as Barnsley, Bradford and Castleford have taken the attitude that the less you've got to lose, the more you can afford to risk.


The Leeds Lumiere: it will be the largest residential building in Europe
This phenomenon was highlighted in 2002 when Will Alsop, one of the biggest and most contentious names of global architecture, was invited to Barnsley by a regeneration agency Yorkshire Forward to re-assess the town.

His proposal was to turn Barnsley into a Tuscan walled hill town. To a chorus of both praise and derision Alsop argued that the history and the settlement pattern of the town mimicked such places as Lucca.

Two architects that worked for Alsop at the time of these proposals were David West and Christophe Egret who have now set up London-based Studio Egret West, a practice which has schemes littered throughout the north. French-born Egret argues that the competition for exceptional architectural standards in Britain's northern towns and cities is a good thing for the whole area.

However his partner West does sound a note of caution. "We were phoned the other day and asked to design a 35-storey tower in the middle of Leeds but we were forced to ask 'why?' Why would you want it there?

"The simple fact is that the Bilbao Effect is not going to save the world but some competition is good though."

Feeling this pressure from Barnsley and Leeds, Bradford also turned to Alsop 18 months later. His answer was almost as radical the second time round. He recommended flooding large swathes of the city's centre as a way of creating new landmark lakes and waterways while also reducing the over-supply of property.

This plan drew amazed headlines but also highlighted that Bradford could propose architectural solutions that its dominant and mature neighbour, Leeds, would never be allowed to contemplate.

However, perhaps the award for the most desperate attempt to enter the architectural contest should go to Castleford. Having fallen a long way, Castleford decided to take a massive risk; it invited in Channel 4's cameras to film a fly-on-the-wall documentary on its bid to regenerate itself.

International landscape architect Martha Shwartz was asked to get involved. Eyebrows were raised when it emerged that her first big scheme in the late Eighties involved sprinkling a Chicago park with bagels. Was she really the woman for the good people of Yorkshire?

Although rumoured that it's to be shelved, The Castleford Project has focused minds.

There is one city that is noticeable by its absence; Liverpool. Burdened by a World Heritage Site waterfront, a city council that often resembles the bad old Eighties and its impending status as European Capital of Culture, Liverpool is stuck in a quagmire that alienates developers.

Liverpool has projects in the pipeline (a residential tower next to Lime Street Station and an extraordinary residential development proposed by Broadway Malyan for the banks of the Mersey), but most schemes end up going nowhere. But if it doesn't buck up its ideas and fast, Liverpool's in danger of coming last in the north's architectural race, a contest that doesn't even need a loser.

Ed Dorrell is news editor of the Architects' Journal

Lots of global coverage for Lumiere.

LIVING HIGH? YOO BET

By Shelley Emling
March 19, 2007 11:01 PM EDT
(FORTUNE Magazine) – WHERE WOULD YOU expect to find the tallest residential tower in Europe? London, perhaps? Booming Berlin? Guess again. It's gritty Leeds, a former textile city in northern England. A 54-story, 680-apartment complex, designed by Philippe Starck and London property developer John Hitchcox, is scheduled to break ground in late May and be completed by 2010.

The project, the Lumiere, isn't the first that their company, called Yoo, has created in a place ripe for revitalization. "When I made the Asahi building, it was in a very poor area of Tokyo, but it transformed the area," says Starck. "I always try to work with people who want to build a new society for the future, who don't just follow along, and in this respect Leeds is perfect."

That's because Leeds, a city of 700,000, has managed to forge a 21st-century image of shops and cultural centers out of an industrial wasteland. Redevelopment started in 1996, when a Harvey Nichols department store opened. Other high-end stores followed, turning Leeds into a major retail destination. Some of the Lumiere apartments will be aimed at people over 55, an age group that has been pouring back into city centers from the suburbs.



Icon Magazine
words: Justin McGuirk

“Nowadays you fart and you are a designer,” says Philippe Starck.

And the man who made it possible for designers to be household names
means it. He looks suitably disgusted. “More the design is trendy, less there
is good designer,” he continues, transliterating from French.

“That’s the pervert effect of that. When design was nothing there was a lot of good designer because they was obliged to fight.” What he doesn’t say – although he will imply it later – is that the demise of the discipline, as he sees it, is all his fault.

For once, journalistic hyperbole can give way to fact: Philippe Starck is the most famous designer in the world. This is partly because he is the most prolific, having designed everything from yachts to toothpicks, but largely because he revolutionised the design market, forcing manufacturers to make good design affordable. Starck the brand is a global empire – Starck himself estimates that his enterprises “feed” 300,000 people. Yet, despite the celebrity, despite having his own plane, he lives like a hermit, professes to be ashamed of what he does and leads a life so superhumanly peripatetic that it is unlikely many designers would want to swap theirs for his.

Today, Starck is in Leeds. An irredeemably grey, drizzly Leeds in every way at odds with what one imagines Starck’s global merry-go-round to be like. He is sitting on one of his own Louis Ghost transparent plastic chairs in a sales suite on the 15th floor of a new apartment block, overlooking a city that is swapping its red-brick industrial heritage for a glass-and-terracotta yuppiedom. Across the road is the empty plot awaiting his latest venture: Lumiere, grandiosely (and vaguely) billed as “one of the tallest residential buildings in Europe”. It is one of more than 20 developments Starck has undertaken with Yoo, a “designer” development company with holdings in cities from New York, Miami, Dallas and Melbourne to, well, Leeds. Starck claims to have personally designed all the public spaces, tweaked the floorplans and handpicked the finishes, and yet this is far from the luxury end of the market, with apartments in Lumiere starting at £110,000. It’s design with a democratic price tag.

Starck describes the project as “a vertical village”, a sort of middle-class utopia built for his “tribe”, and his rhetoric is incandescently humane: “I think a building is made of vision, hope, tenderness, love, poetry, creativity, honesty, respect, humour, surrealism, and a lot of things like that … When people speak about materiality, we speak about immateriality. When people speak about architecture, we speak about happiness.” The difference between this spiel and that of some flamboyant PR is that there is a kind of innocence to it. Starck appears to genuinely believe in concepts such as goodness and humanity. Cynics will say that he has sold out, but throw cynicism at him and it doesn’t appear to stick.

The interior of Lumiere is conceived by Starck as an “Ali Baba’s cave” of other designers’ furniture, curated by him. “Everything must be of the best quality with the big Q, the best intelligence with the big E,” by which he means I. “Because I am a designer, I know who are the good designer – there is so few, it’s not complicated to know them.”

I ask him whose furniture he will be using in this development but he can’t remember (“I’m sorry, we work on a lot of projects”). So I ask him how he finds the designers he likes – is it in magazines or trade fairs? He looks horrified. “I don’t open ANY magazine of design and architecture, I never go to exhibition, I never speak to designer or architect. For me that is so boring.” He doesn’t know how he knows, he just does. I ask him to name some designers and he lists a few Italian maestri: Andrea Branzi, Enzo Mari, the recently deceased Vico Magistretti. Have any of these influenced him?

Now he recoils in shock, looking at first hurt and then as if he must have misheard me. “I’m sorry? Influenced? Me?” There must have been someone … in the early days? “Nobodeee! Nobodeee!” So I return to designers he admires – if that’s not too strong a word – and this time I want more contemporary names. He comes up with two: Marcel Wanders and “one English guy who is very good but I never remember his name … uh, shit. Taylor something?” Jasper Morrison? “Jasper Morrison. Very humble, very honest. I like this kind of person.”

Morrison wouldn’t say what he thought of Starck, but Wanders was unequivocal. “He’s really by far the number one. There’s no designer in the world who has influenced what design is like he has. Designers design products, he designs design.”

Philippe Patrick Starck, a youthful 57, studied at the École Nissim de Camondo in Paris. His father was an aeronautical engineer and Starck says he was “programmed to make rockets”, but when he set up his first design company as a 19 year old in 1968, it was to make inflatable objects. He made his name with two Paris nightclub interiors in the late 1970s, but really arrived in 1982 when he was asked to design French President François Mitterand’s apartments in the Elysée Palace.

He went on to help define the look of the “designer” decade, with postmodernist interiors such as the Café Costes in Paris and with eclectic furniture clearly influenced, despite his disavowals, by Jean Prouvé and Memphis.

But it was Starck’s ability to cross over into product design that distinguished him as a truly protean talent. He designed cutlery, toothbrushes, door handles, kitchen utensils and even clothes. Stylistically, he is a butterfly. His work has been characterised by unconventional combinations of materials, but it’s impossible to pin down a Starck look, veering between an almost art deco treatment of metal to an organic treatment of plastic. He has played the postmodernist game of updating historical forms with modern materials, as in the Bubble armchair (2000), but he has also invented new forms. He has flogged functionalism and affronted the tastefulness of the bourgeoisie with tables in the shape of garden gnomes.

He has designed buildings (embarrassingly fraught with figurative symbolism, such as his penknife-shaped factory for Laguiole) and yet his most recognisable object is a lemon squeezer. The Juicy Salif (1990) – a byword for over-design, the parvenu’s gewgaw – is more cultish totem than juicer.

Today, Starck is a caricature. Van den Puup, the made-up star of Ikea’s 2004 advertising campaign and the embodiment of snobbish arrogance, was obviously (despite the faux-Dutch name) modelled on him. Any number of quotations in this article live up to that image, and yet, like all caricatures, Starck is in some essential way unknowable. Ludicrous accent and posturing aside, Van den Puup is a travesty.
Starck’s name may be synonymous with the nouveau-riche aspirations of the Eighties, but his great achievement has been the democratisation of design. “My first chair, it cost one thousand dollar. It was a huge success. People were very happy, but not me. I said, one thousand dollar: you have a family with four children, that is six. Then there’s the table. Ten thousand dollar to eat with your family? What is that? It is a joke. It is absurdity!” Now you can buy a Starck chair from American chain store Target for nine dollars. This is an achievement that he is not unduly proud of – nor is he ashamed to recount it in the most portentous terms. “I killed design like it was by killing elitism. It took for me 20 years through the democratic design. But it’s almost done.”

Starck’s reputation – his apotheosis into the realm of the household name – gained a certain leverage for designers. Such autonomy as they enjoy today is owed largely to the influence Starck gained over his manufacturers. Whether you like his work or not, he is the apogee of the designer. John Hitchcox, his partner in Yoo, calls him “the don”. But despite the biblical sense of his own importance, the don is actually ashamed of what he does. “I design useless Christmas gift,” he confesses. “That’s why don’t ask me to be proud or to be interested in what I do. I am so ashamed of what I do, I try to do it the best that’s possible.”

This is not the first time in the interview Starck has mentioned his shame, and the comment either deserves to be ignored or it deserves the sincerest pity. Pity because Starck is a design machine – he describes it as a “sickness”, an “addiction”. He bangs out designs as second nature. “I’m surprised he didn’t draw one out while you were sitting here,” says Hitchcox, later adding, “He’s almost a nerd.”

This compulsion is certainly one reason why Starck is so prolific (he launched 30 products at Milan this year), but the other is the demands made on him by his brand: “I am no longer free to go to my bed and sleep. It is impossible. I am trapped!” Even though he says he only accepts ten per cent of the jobs offered to him, that ten per cent results in an extraordinary life. Starck has homes in London, Paris, Venice and on an oyster farm in the south of France, but he appears to spend most of his time on his plane – his one “necessity” – forever churning out drawings in between meetings, launches, pied à terres or while en route to wherever his girlfriend Jasmine is (today she is in Prague).

“I live a monk’s life,” he says. “I leave out everything. I don’t go to the movies, theatre, cocktails or anything like that. I wake up early in the morning. I design by myself with good music from my iPod. I have the same team – a very, very small team who I have been working with for 20 years. They are my friends. I send my drawings – very accurate – to them, and they repeat. Then I come and check them and everything you see is made strictly by me.”

Starck claims to have no ambition. He claims that his house on the oyster farm has no electricity or running water. He claims that his greatest critic is his neighbour, the oyster fisherman. He claims, in short, to be the Che Guevara of the design world – its man of the people. “I am always proud of the most humble product,” he says. “I design now a mega-yacht of two hundred million dollar, which is a revolution … I always prefer a toothpick.”

I like that phrase 'glass-and-terracotta yuppiedom' !

Just think, all this publicity and the darn building hasn't even started yet !

Does anyone know if there is to be an official opening of BWP?

One local figure that looks set to benefit heavily from Leeds' new confidence is Chris Jones, a partner at Carey Jones Architects whose development on the site of an old Odeon cinema is one of daring innovation.

Carey Jones. daring innovation? Hmm. Could this be referring to the Cannon/MGM cinema site?

Carey Jones. daring innovation? Hmm. Could this be referring to the Cannon/MGM cinema site?

That must be about Bradford Odeon design which is anything but "daring" or "innovative".

They just love their 'north-phobic' stereotypes don't they, they really have to hide behind them to cover their ignorance. If they got their dumb arses outside the M25 they might find a whole world of surprises out there!

arggh, bugger the pig ignorant journalism, and take note at the suggested late May start. Actions speak louder than words. If Lumiere breaks ground in May I'll be one happy chappie.

di liv, welcome back, you've been a busy boy researching these articles. Top ho!

They just love their 'north-phobic' stereotypes don't they, they really have to hide behind them to cover their ignorance. If they got their dumb arses outside the M25 they might find a whole world of surprises out there!

Tell me about it.

That level of ignorance pisses me right off. I can't even be arsed to read the full articles. I hate the element of surprise journalists use when ambitious/big projects are launched in Leeds, its a recurring theme. The picture they paint is so negatitive - and its absolute bollox.

Terrible journalism? Just watch Look North tonight, with 'special reort' from the top floor of BWP. It'll be 'special' alright. Apparently they'll be celebrating its completion or something. Anyway, watch out for a tawdry self congratulatory news bite on Look North tonight.

Just seen a sneak preview from good old Harry... seemed to paint a reasonable picture of the place.

Eat this.

http://www.carrerapropertyconsultancy.com/images/lumiere/leeds-investments.gif

where did you get that?!?!?! Imagine when you step out of the train station- wowowowowowow!!!

http://www.carrerapropertyconsultancy.com/lumiere-property.html

Eat this.

http://www.carrerapropertyconsultancy.com/images/lumiere/leeds-investments.gif

Should be a nice open air view from old JD Wetherspoons, but argh theres gonna be drib, drab and tabs all over the place !

i will wet myself when the ground is broken on this project bring it on

i will wet myself when the ground is broken on this project bring it on

It's sure gonna be one HELL of a busy thread on here !

If it is the end of may/ beggining of June. Its only 5 weeks. OOO!!

di liv delivers the goods once again.

Where are those earth movers? I think the earth might be about to move for The King.

Eat this.

http://www.carrerapropertyconsultancy.com/images/lumiere/leeds-investments.gif

I'm sure it will look bigger in flesh than the render.

i just cant wait ever since this development was announced i have just wanted it get on site and start the construction when its finished it will bring national and world media as it already has done firmly shining down on leeds come on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think we should start thread 3 when the ground is broken as it will be so busy!

I'm seriously thinking of looking for a job in the city centre just to watch this rise. :banana:

Maybe Eversheds need a tea boy in BWP?

from the Sunday Times Rich List 2007
Kevin Linfoot - Property - £145m
From pigsties to skyscrapers describes the rising curve of the property developer Linfott's career. Raised on a pig farm just outside York Linfoot, 49, helped his father hump bags of coal around the city. Leaving school unable to write due to an acute form of dyslexia he became a carpenter's apprentice. At 17, he won £1,800 compensation after a motorbike accident, which he used to buy a half share in a joiner's shop, selling it a year later for £22,000. Buying, renovating and selling houses in York came next. He started his company, K.W.Linfoot, in 1981, building it into one of the north's leading property developers, often credited with the regeneration of Leeds City Centre. Last year the city's planners gave the go-ahead to Lumiere, a £225m twin-tower development adn the highest residential project in Europe (edit: how long has this been stated, it won't be, but who gives shit). The tallest tower, 560ft high and 54 storeys, will incorporate 689 flats, a health centre, offices and shops. The other, at 370ft and 32 storeys, will have 220 flats and offices. 'It's the top of my career to do something like this, 'I'll never do anything this big again', says Linfoot, who has to rely on his PA reading his documents to him, writes phonetically and depends on his incredible memory. 'Until I was about 35 I could have a conversation and then be able to remember every word that was said', he says. Divorced from his wife, Linfoot has a toddler son with with partner, Francesca Foster. He describes himself modestly as a joiner, albeit one who employs Philip Starck and Sophie Conran to design the interiors of his developments. Linfoot's passions outside work include socialist realist art - he has the largest collection of it outside Russia. He also collects original photographs by famous names such as Man Ray and Norman Parkinson. Linfoot has a portfolio of developments underway valued at nearly £750m. His various companies and stakes in development projects, including K W Linfoot and West Point Leeds made about £3m profit in 2005. We value them at £80m, allowing for borrowings. Other businesses add £9m. Linfoot's personal property takes him to £145m.

I feel a little bad for saying he came across badly on the Look North BWP newscast, but he's clearly a chap who's done brilliantly. To be fair, he's a standard-bearer for Leeds, and that's what we need. Good on him.

'I'll never do anything this big again', says Linfoot- awww :(

Until the next big project comes along that he can make mega bucks on.

And I have no problem with that.

Subliving.

Well if criterion ever gets the go ahead, I wouldn't have thought there would be many 150 plus towers for a while. I hope I am wrong mind

Walked past the site today. Noticed quite deep foundations from what was there before. Does anyone know what once stood there?

As far as I know, it was just the foundations from the Royal Mail building's wing on that side. I could be very wrong though.

Subliving.

Walked past the site today. Noticed quite deep foundations from what was there before. Does anyone know what once stood there?

I believe it was the old plant room for the royal mail complex. also there may have been an underground link to the train station (I may have imagined this though)

I believe it was the old plant room for the royal mail complex. also there may have been an underground link to the train station (I may have imagined this though)

This comment has been removed by a moderator.

This comment has been removed by a moderator.

? :sly:

Just found these PDF files on the net, one I've not seen before is this cracking Lumiere site plan very interesting, giving retail, commerecial unit sizes with descriptions of use, enterance rooms and halls and a good plan of the winter garden and road layout and boundaries... all look best when zoomed in !

Lumiere site plan..
http://www.offplan-investor.com/pdfs/54_development_siteplan.pdf

Lumiere floor plans..
Jesus H Christ, Just look at the price ! :eek:

200k for a 1 bed 500 sq ft 19th Floor :nuts:

http://www.offplan-investor.com/pdfs/54_development_floorplan.pdf

Ok so 200k is a lot for a 1 bed.. but hey they look great in the specs below, very nice ! :)

http://www.offplan-investor.com/pdfs/54_specification.pdf

I hate to think what a top notch apartment on the top floor would cost in Lumiere. I think I'd rather comprimise abit of floorspace for better views. The ones on the 45th floor, although small will offer brilliant views over Leeds. Thanks for the info Mark*ie.
When I start uni again in September I'll be looking forward to seeing this thing rise from Wellington Street and being able to see it from the top floor at uni.

In the Business section of the Daily Telegraph this morning there is reference to Leeds as being one of the worst places to buy-to-let owing to a glut of newly built properties. (It doesn’t even mention that there are many more in the immediate pipeline making the outlook even worse.) Apparently, studio flats in Leeds yield 81% less than they do in London, and luxury flats in Leeds now command an average of £694 per month.
The good news is that a pundit it quotes suggests that, in general, demand would stay ‘relatively high’ in the lettings market - though my gloss on this is that certain localities will not do as well as the average and that could well include Leeds. Potential landlords in Leeds make of this what you will!

In the Business section of the Daily Telegraph this morning there is reference to Leeds as being one of the worst places to buy-to-let owing to a glut of newly built properties. (It doesn’t even mention that there are many more in the immediate pipeline making the outlook even worse.) Apparently, studio flats in Leeds yield 81% less than they do in London, and luxury flats in Leeds now command an average of £694 per month.
The good news is that a pundit it quotes suggests that, in general, demand would stay ‘relatively high’ in the lettings market - though my gloss on this is that certain localities will not do as well as the average and that could well include Leeds. Potential landlords in Leeds make of this what you will!

Ah. So that would make Leeds the 'Dubai of the UK' then? Both have a huge amount of speculative building and future-proofing going on, both are trying to very quickly catch up with their rivals, and both are succeeding at catching up in that short space of time.

Subliving.

Ah. So that would make Leeds the 'Dubai of the UK' then? Both have a huge amount of speculative building and future-proofing going on, both are trying to very quickly catch up with their rivals, and both are succeeding at catching up in that short space of time.

Subliving.

Well, for the sake of landlords in Leeds, present and prospective, I hope you are right and that the catching up is not at their expense!

Well, for the sake of landlords in Leeds, present and prospective, I hope you are right and that the catching up is not at their expense!

I find it very hard to have any sympathy for Landlords and buy to lets. To be honest I hope it is at their expense.

Does Lumiere have an official website?

Also is there a contact number regarding purchasing apartments etc

Ta in advance

Being someone that is priced out of the housing market (and i dont earn a terrible wage) i have no sypathy with landlords and people that buy-to-let... its these people that have contributed to me not being able to afford a house!!!!

Rant over.

www.lumiereaboveall.com

I would think thousands of people would love to live in Central Leeds if it wasn't so expensive! Maybe if prices were reduced as developers realise no-one is buying, people may start to buy more.

Was the article just refering to central Leeds?

I would like to own a house pretty much anywhere in Leeds but it isn't possible. It's not even affordable to rent anywhere of a reasonable size.

Was the article just refering to central Leeds?

I would like to own a house pretty much anywhere in Leeds but it isn't possible. It's not even affordable to rent anywhere of a reasonable size.

I think it can be assumed it was referring to the new builds in central Leeds. Cardiff was also a place mentioned with Leeds as now being poor for rental income. No I don't have much symapthy for the landlords.

www.lumiereaboveall.com

I would think thousands of people would love to live in Central Leeds if it wasn't so expensive! Maybe if prices were reduced as developers realise no-one is buying, people may start to buy more.

I appreciate what you are saying No1 I'm very sure people would be queuing up to live in Leeds city centre, if the purchase price was right. The Developers do sell at a reasonalble and sometime exceptional prices, but not to the likes of me and you but to investment companies, they dont just buy 1,2,3 or 4 apartments they buy 4 or 5 floors ! "70% of Lumiere sold in 2nd week I should imagine in that short time 65% were investors, Linfoot will be quite happy to sell the properties at a knock down price, and with no remorse or discrimination he isn't that bothered who he sells to he just wants rid ASAP, make his £££spondoolies then moves on to the next money spinning project ! It would have to be the Investors that as you say "realise that no one is buying" for this to happen and I doubt it very much will ! because then there would be no investment or profit to be made. Although there is no name for the scheme/development just yet, Linfoot has plans to build some apartments in Leeds aimed at the "essential workers" they will have first call to buy, then any not taken will be passed over to investors, which is still a really nice move by Linfoot he will charge what the investors normally charge and make even more of a profit. So it looks like as long as there is money to be made, developers and investors will keep on going ! build, build, build buy, buy, buy sell, sell, sell... phew :nuts:

On another note, It is surely not long till we get on with this. I stick with my June 1 guess.

Place your guesses now....

Hey you :) I guessed before..Its still the same July the 9th

June 24th.

Oh yeh sorry Mark. Looks liek mine is an optomistic guess then.

Oh yeh sorry Mark. Looks liek mine is an optomistic guess then.

Well its my birthday on June the 11th so can I have 2 dates or change it to June the 11th?

Ermmm, yeh. Why not! But if you win, I will only bye you half a pint or another similarly girly drink.

November 14th for me please!! hope its sooner though.

Ermmm, yeh. Why not! But if you win, I will only bye you half a pint or another similarly girly drink.

Hey dont forget your all buying me a German Fru beer at the Cross Keys on the 9th, no girlie drinks for this guy ! ;) :scouserd:

Do they serve cosmos in there? If not, I'm lost man! :lol:

Subliving.

Do they serve cosmos in there? If not, I'm lost man! :lol:

Subliving.

Cosmos ? umm :dunno: dont tell me its a russian tipple or brew ?

Haha!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Clubs/wild_berry_cosmo.jpg

My drink of choice. Vodka, Cointreiu, cranberry juice and a hint of lime, generally served after scorching the top with the citric acid of an orange's skin set on fire.

Drink straight up (no ice) with extended little finger.

Subliving.

I will be very suprised if anything thing happens now before August im afraid the services design is not as advanced as it should be. Ill go for the 20th for start date:ohno:

..

It was ment to be july (i know people who are working on this project) but it keeps falling behide the scheduel so as the moment thats about where it is but could go back further but fingers crossed it wont

I can say from a very close source that the groundworks will take at least a year as the site is really bad. I'll also be getting access to the site so I'll be able to get some good pictures....should mean that Ill also get to have a snoop around when it tops out too.....

I'd be quite happy if I knew it was 20th August, waiting for a fixed date would be far better than just not knowing (that's like waiting for a bus when you've no idea when it's due). Although August is still just an estimate.

Bloody hell. That is rubish!! Always been put back. I wish they just had eiher never said anything or give us a specific date rather then just "spring 2007" then "mid 2007". Just always postponing. Why a year for the groundwork? What happened to 20 weeks? And who cares if plans arent finished, they could at least start clearing the site and begin digging. At this rate, they could employ one man and he would have the foundations dug before plans were complete.

it will take a year as there is all the foundations & 3 stories of underground car park. the car park is just about covers all the site. where did you hear 20 weeks?

hmmmm, I think i remember fred saying something about it...hmm Fred, got any ideas?

hmmmm, I think i remember fred saying something about it...hmm Fred, got any ideas?

Well, like most other people, I had also heard that there would be some 20 weeks of preliminary work. I remember seeing it in the press.

Looks as if it will be at least 4 years before it is up and running ! I think we will have to be satisfied with only BWP for most of that time. And Criterion ???

How rubish. At leats it gives the sky line time to mature and accomodate such a big structure.

That is, we have a few 70m + in opal, granary wharfe, monkbridge, wellington place (perhaps), gateway (maybe) and then a few 100+ in green bank, plaza and monkbridge forge main tower. So as BWP has heralded a certain phase in the normalisation of 70+ towers, developement in 100+ towers as well as aspirations of 150+ towers, maybe by the time in lumiere is finished, we will have normalised 100+ towers, have a few 150+ towers being developed and perhaps aspirations of 200+ towers.

Maybe not but it is always better to stay positive!!

Im sure the wait will be well worth it. I'd rather wait longer and get an amazing tower that'll look brilliant even after 50 years than the developer slap up something in about 2 years that looks cheap and nasty and will look rubbish and dirty after 10 years.
It'll blend in better with the rest of the skyline by then with the other proposals being built.

Maybe not but it is always better to stay positive!!

Positive = comforting ourselves with what we are going to get in reality ?

when is Manchersters Eastgate due to start? at this rate we will not have the tallest outside London!

The groundwork is to take that long as the composition of the ground is terrible, and major work will have to be undertaken to pave the way for a solid base & foundations.

This is all new to us, there are bound to be teething problems, look at BWP's history.

It's not as if all our "rivals" have erected similar sized towers with no problem.

In the current age, how many 80m+ towers have gone up elsewhere? Not that many.

Leeds has BWP and Opal UC

Liverpool has a Beetham and one UC

Birmingham has Orion, HCT and I think something UC

Manchester has Beetham, that ski slop one seems pretty big, and maybe one or two UC

Sheff has one UC

I've maybe overlooked some projects there, but they aren't sprouting like dandelions anywhere and if Lumiere gets UC along with the Plaza this year, then Leeds will be holding its own against slightly larger, more established cities

Well if it will take so long to sort out the base, why don't they get under way with the excavation just to get it to a point where plans are finalised then they are further down the line. Granted, why would they be nterested in starting any sooner then needs be.

The groundwork is to take that long as the composition of the ground is terrible, and major work will have to be undertaken to pave the way for a solid base & foundations.

Was chatting to SMARTCITY last night and he said he saw some clearing work going off on site yesterday at about 15:00 ?

Umm cant see wht there should be a problem with the composition of the ground, this used to be part of the Royal Mail sorting office so surely the bedrock cant be that deep ?

Can some one explain what that little channel on the norther side of the site is? It looks to be concrete all the way down.

Can some one explain what that little channel on the norther side of the site is? It looks to be concrete all the way down.

Not sure what you are on about ?

That is the southern site of the site, no?

That is the southern site of the site, no?

Yes it is.. doe ! posted the wrong pic, cant find the bloody other one ?.. i'll remove it.

I will be very suprised if anything thing happens now before August im afraid the services design is not as advanced as it should be. Ill go for the 20th for start date:ohno:

The WSP team is the same team who worked on Manchester's Beetham. I'm surprised they are struggling with the services design, WSP should know what they are doing as they're the market leaders in large project services design. Presumably Otis are doing the elevators which should be becoming 'bread and butter' stuff for them now.

I thought it was difficulties in negotiating the contract that was holding things up.

I also thought it was the contract negotiations that were holding things up?
Oh so its Otis for the lifts, wonder what the speed will be, gotta be 20 mph plus, otherwise should imagine you would be waiting an age to get to the 54th floor !

Not sure that it's Otis, but I think they get most of the big high rises in the north, our company only does high rises in London .. :tongue:

Well been & had a look at site today & there has been some clean up work hope im wrong with the start date

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/939/sitemt2.th.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sitemt2.jpg)

Well been & had a look at site today & there has been some clean up work hope im wrong with the start date

As it was..

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l165/markie_h/leedspics008.jpg

As now..

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/939/sitemt2.jpg

Certainly looks like it ! I hope you are wrong :colgate:

^^ Are you sure that wasnt the mess from the west park block thats just been cleared up?

With the Beethams of Manc and Liverpool, meaning you can see each other's cities from these towers, how long will it be before Manc and Leeds will be able to see each other?

How 'tall' are the pennines?!

Random i know, but still something to think about!

This question has been asked before. I think the conclusion was a tower of 400m would be needed or something. I think a better phrase also is "how HIGH are the pennines" not how tall lol. But yes. It will never happen realistically. Not in our lifetimes anyway!

With the Beethams of Manc and Liverpool, meaning you can see each other's cities from these towers, how long will it be before Manc and Leeds will be able to see each other?

How 'tall' are the pennines?!

Random i know, but still something to think about!

I don't know how tall the Pennines are but they are tall enough to keep the rain at bay away from Yorkshire ;)

High, yes! :lol: Sorry, dumb moment and the pennines are a very good sponge for you yorkies!

BTW, is it possible to see both Manc and Leeds from Emley Moor, i wonder?

From what Ive heard, no it isnt. Can you see Emley Moor from anywhere in Manchester? You can't see it until you get to about Huddersfield. I think we under-estimate the height of the pennines here.

Well, Kinder scout is 2000 ft above sea level, so i think we're looking at something Burj Dubai size in either city, which we can safely say, is easily out of the question! Haha, oh well!

High, yes! :lol: Sorry, dumb moment and the pennines are a very good sponge for you yorkies!

BTW, is it possible to see both Manc and Leeds from Emley Moor, i wonder?

You keep on wondering mate,... but I'll gladly guide you to the Manchester Forum, thats if they want you back ? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=335

Unlike you i like to venture out of my city as i like to take interest in other cities upcoming achievements.

If you don't like light hearted banter, then may i kindly guide you to this one, which will hopefully mean you'll not take yourself so seriously. :)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=473477

And back to subject anyhoo, is the Wolff Crane used on Beetham Manc going to be used on the taller tower, due to it's similar overall size?

As it was..

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l165/markie_h/leedspics008.jpg

As now..

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/939/sitemt2.jpg

Certainly looks like it ! I hope you are wrong :colgate:



This is the first sign something is happening on site......lets be positive things are going to start moving forward very soon

Cheers to pookey for the pic, from October 2005

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a251/pookey1967/beetdean1610-2.jpg

The mentioned crane at its maximum height, was the tallest free-standing crane in the UK, peaking at over 200m at the top of the jib!

When you see that crane being manouvered to its full height during the latter stages of construction, you will smile, trust me! :)

This is a view that may become a reality! :)

BEFORE:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/884/lumierecm5.png

AFTER:
http://www.carrerapropertyconsultancy.com/images/lumiere/leeds-investments.gif

Took me 30mins to make, nicked some parts from constuction photos of Beetham Manc, hope you's like! :cheers:

Ooh welldone! Looks very good :) I would think that they would want to get on with this project asap, rather than delaying it until August- surely the longer they delay it, the higher costs get?

Ooh welldone! Looks very good :) I would think that they would want to get on with this project asap, rather than delaying it until August- surely the longer they delay it, the higher costs get?

I should think the developers are very well aware of escalating building costs. Maybe they still haven't got all the finance together, or maybe - perish the thought - they are having second thoughts?

This is a view that may become a reality! :)

BEFORE:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/884/lumierecm5.png

AFTER:
http://www.carrerapropertyconsultancy.com/images/lumiere/leeds-investments.gif

Took me 30mins to make, nicked some parts from constuction photos of Beetham Manc, hope you's like! :cheers:


Good work Chogmook, nice impression of the construction stage. Those pics of Beetham certainly give a good idea of what is to come.

I should think the developers are very well aware of escalating building costs. Maybe they still haven't got all the finance together, or maybe - perish the thought - they are having second thoughts?

i understand that the developers have already sold a considerable number of the apartments off-plan already. With all the publicity this scheme generated, pulling out of its prime landmark would pretty much destroy Linfoot's reputation as a credible developer.

a bit of a hold-up as they finalise costs and the build contract is nothing in the general scheme of things. I don't think we've yet had Carillion 'formally' confirmed the the contractor for this scheme though.

I should think the developers are very well aware of escalating building costs. Maybe they still haven't got all the finance together, or maybe - perish the thought - they are having second thoughts?


Now how did we all guess that we would get a negative comment from Fred. Come on Fred, lets think POSITIVE for a change!!

Can some one explain what that little channel on the norther side of the site is? It looks to be concrete all the way down.

if you look through the hoardings on Wellington Street, you can see a concrete stairwell descending into the depths parallel. i suspect the old Royal Mail building had a big basement of some sort, and part of the groundworks required for Lumiere is to excavate this, and as already mentioned, build up the 2-3 levels of underground carpark. Like some of the big London towers, we won't see any of the superstructure rising above groundlevel until the back end of 2008.

Does anyone know if a restaurant is planned on the top floor ..would be great if this was the case !!

Does anyone know if a restaurant is planned on the top floor ..would be great if this was the case !!

I think the plan is to have a couple of storeys of offices on the top levels. Something about trying to attract a top-end legal outfit or 'hedge fund'.

A public bar or restaurant would be de rigour in many other high rise cities, but perhaps we have a little way still to go before that. Criterion Place does have a public level at the top of the 47 storey tower, but we're still in development hell on that project.

if you look through the hoardings on Wellington Street, you can see a concrete stairwell descending into the depths parallel. i suspect the old Royal Mail building had a big basement of some sort, and part of the groundworks required for Lumiere is to excavate this, and as already mentioned, build up the 2-3 levels of underground carpark. Like some of the big London towers, we won't see any of the superstructure rising above groundlevel until the back end of 2008.

The groundwork will comprise of a total of 20 weeks work and at a excavation depth of 10 metres deep, the remainder of 156 weeks completion of Towers 1 and 2.

Does anyone know if a restaurant is planned on the top floor ..would be great if this was the case !!

Yes it would be great, wouldn't it ! But like Jimbo said the top 3 floors are to be office space, with penthouses just below.

The time before building above ground will surely be more than 20 weeks.

The 20 weeks may refer to
i) clearing only, or
ii) clearing and piling (which may take place before excavating), or
iii) clearing, piling and excavating the site, or
iv) the above + construction of sub-level walls and floors.

I suspect the 20 weeks is for i), and the year quoted is for iv).

Anyway, the JCB was still there today, and the site looked much clearer, although I only shot past in the car and saw a glimpse through the gap.

i understand that the developers have already sold a considerable number of the apartments off-plan already. With all the publicity this scheme generated, pulling out of its prime landmark would pretty much destroy Linfoot's reputation as a credible developer.

Thanks Jimbo, That certainly would be the case.. although I could be wrong Linfoot maybe relying on the receipt and release of the delayed funds from Bridgewater place, none of us have moved in yet !

Could be, but they'll be making payments to the main contractor on a monthly basis throughout the whole three years of the project, probably at a lower rate for the first 6 - 12 months as the work rate will be less intensive. Cash flow from BWP hopefully shouldn't have that big an effect on the overall scheme of payments as they should have the bulk of that money in within six months.

The time before building above ground will surely be more than 20 weeks.

The 20 weeks may refer to
i) clearing only, or
ii) clearing and piling (which may take place before excavating), or
iii) clearing, piling and excavating the site, or
iv) the above + construction of sub-level walls and floors.

I suspect the 20 weeks is for i), and the year quoted is for iv).

Anyway, the JCB was still there today, and the site looked much clearer, although I only shot past in the car and saw a glimpse through the gap.

Yes it states from the LCC Plans Panel, enabling and site preperation of the existing site (approx 20 weeks)
Construction of the new residential and commercial buildings concurrently (approx 156 weeks) So not sure Rob ?

Depends what is meant by 'site preparation' though, which could be defined as any of the above four scenarios.

Could be, but they'll be making payments to the main contractor on a monthly basis throughout the whole three years of the project, probably at a lower rate for the first 6 - 12 months as the work rate will be less intensive. Cash flow from BWP hopefully shouldn't have that big an effect on the overall scheme of payments as they should have the bulk of the money in within six months.

I was more or less thinking the same "but it was just a possiblity", I have a move in date on 14th floor approx 29th June to 6th July and I've been told that it could even be later, bloody October at this rate :ohno: Everyone is to be moved in floor by foor, and each floor with 20 to go will kerching ! in the £Millions !

Now how did we all guess that we would get a negative comment from Fred. Come on Fred, lets think POSITIVE for a change!!

I keep seeing that self-delusory mantra a bit too often. I'll be more positive if and when a start is made.

I'm with Fred. All the signs are that Lumiere will never, ever be built. They have had plenty of time and it isn't finished yet, so the developers must have changed their minds. It is plain that this site is destined to lie derelict for evermore; the developers will never be heard from again. I suggest we lock this thread immediately, never mention Lumi - ooh, nearly! - ever again, and if possible we should burn the internet to be sure we leave no trace it was ever proposed.

Thankyou, Fred. If you hadn't responded to every second post about Lum- sorry, this project that never-was - with your unique brand of overwhelmingly negative 'realism' then I might never have realised what a fool I've been.

Fred, remaining positive or negative are neither delusory; they are merely a subjective ways of perception. I would suggest that the prior being the better.

If you cannot accept that, understand both to be equally yet oppositely delusory.

If this is not about positive or negative perceptions but matters of fact, I think, as has been pointed out, the negative potentials you suggest seem far less suported then the ideas that it will go ahead. Even you surely can't think the evidence suggests otherwise.

But Joey, they were supposed to have started construction in June. June! Can't you see how riddled with delays this project is already??!!

If the hoardings are there, then it's gonna be built, surely! Even Eastgate in Manc hasn't even got any hordings and the site hasn't been cleared either! So you're quite a few steps ahead at the mo!

If the hoardings are there, then it's gonna be built, surely! Even Eastgate in Manc hasn't even got any hordings and the site hasn't been cleared either! So you're quite a few steps ahead at the mo!

Thanks for that Chogmook ! Liked the illustration you did in your earlier post :)

Thanks for that Chogmook ! Liked the illustration you did in your earlier post :)

:cheers:

Waitings the hard game, when Beetham Manc was built, we were told that construction (well demolition of the old car garage/arches), would be Feb 2004, and low and behold, it happened, right at the end of the month though! So don't be disheartened just yet! Its a big project with over 80 storeys of space to be built, they'll want to get this right and when they do, you won't mind that you had to wait just that little bit longer!

GN Tower was a bugger though, approved in 2002, site cleared, then nothing til mid/late 2004 and all of a sudden, it shot up, and was finished before Beetham, but yes, it was worth the wait!

Well Criterion had hoardings and had them taken down if thats anything to go by!

But Joey, they were supposed to have started construction in June. June! Can't you see how riddled with delays this project is already??!!

:lol:

In a slight defence of Fred, it was first muted to be starting in January, then April (by Ian Simpson I think) but then delays are a whole part of the game.

Well Criterion had hoardings and had them taken down if thats anything to go by!

eh- when? It never had hordings in the sence of high fenced graphics (like granary wharf and lumier) it had and STILL DOES have graphics up.

..

But Joey, they were supposed to have started construction in June. June! Can't you see how riddled with delays this project is already??!!

Take care Sir Charles, otherwise you will be accused with me of not being POSITIVE ! :)

Surely you see his irony Fred. Or are you just being sarcastic. Im confused.

Well Criterion had hoardings and had them taken down if thats anything to go by!

Me and SMARTCITY have one each at home :colgate: no seriously we did see one the other night when out carousing the pubs bar and clubs.

Surely you see his irony Fred. Or are you just being sarcastic. Im confused.

Joey was it you who said he was studying philosophy? If so, your recent contributions seem to be evidence that you haven't finished your study.:)

Well Criterion had hoardings and had them taken down if thats anything to go by!

It had a sign, but not hoardings! :lol:

Was chatting to SMARTCITY last night and he said he saw some clearing work going off on site yesterday at about 15:00 ?

Umm cant see wht there should be a problem with the composition of the ground, this used to be part of the Royal Mail sorting office so surely the bedrock cant be that deep ?

Just going on from what I've been told. Believe me, my source is VERY reliable.

I keep seeing that self-delusory mantra a bit too often. I'll be more positive if and when a start is made.

I can't say how I know, but Fred, it IS going to happen!

I can't say how I know, but Fred, it IS going to happen!

Fair enough, Liam. I certainly HOPE your information is correct.

But Joey, they were supposed to have started construction in June. June! Can't you see how riddled with delays this project is already??!!

err.. so delays are unusual in the building industry? I never realised.

These are not really delays as there has never been a fixed start date the only real date from Ian Simpson was hopefully starting in April not definitely. There is no worry this will go ahead there is no question about it being built we just need to wait for a real start date.

If your just talking baout my confusion; fair enough.

Yes I study it. I would think better of you Fred. Coming out with personal insults as opposed to saying somehting better yourself. It seems a very arrogent stance to take.

If your just talking baout my confusion; fair enough.

The latter, indeed.

Hahahaha!! Then it's fine :D

Just going on from what I've been told. Believe me, my source is VERY reliable.

What have you been told?

And, without naming your source, what kind of source is it?

Lumiere (amongst others) in the Telegraph a few days ago:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.jhtml?xml=/property/2007/05/10/npdemolish10.xml

"Gaze upwards as you approach Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham and you will see shiny towers climbing high above their neighbours, the cranes a clue as to which have yet further to rise."

"Richard Dean, development director of K W Linfoot, responsible for Bridgewater and about to start work on Europe's largest residential tower in Leeds, believes they will, as architects and developers take their responsibilities seriously."


"The quality of architecture of today's towers is very high. Because we are just starting on this journey, some of our new high-rise buildings are going to stand alone for a long time, unlike New York where the beauty of the skyline lies in the collective mass of tall buildings. In fact when you look closely, many are not special on their own. We are making sure the architecture of our building will work on its own merits."

Not great news im afraid just been out for a swift half :cheers: with a mate who is working on the project & the price of the fit out has yet to be agreed & the M&E scheme originally put forward has yet to be proven to be practical & in compliance with all the regulations :bash:

Would the price of fit out stop them starting on the structure? as the fit out is over a year down the line. If the M&E still needs to be approved, again doesn't necesarily mean work couldn't start on such a big (3 year) project (based on large projects I've dealt with).

No idea how it works Rob was hoping someone on here would have a beter idea but i would not build a house without knowing how much it would cost to fit it out but maybe these big developments would take that risk

Lumiere (amongst others) in the Telegraph a few days ago:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/main.jhtml?xml=/property/2007/05/10/npdemolish10.xml

"Gaze upwards as you approach Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool or Birmingham and you will see shiny towers climbing high above their neighbours, the cranes a clue as to which have yet further to rise."

"Richard Dean, development director of K W Linfoot, responsible for Bridgewater and about to start work on Europe's largest residential tower in Leeds, believes they will, as architects and developers take their responsibilities seriously."


"The quality of architecture of today's towers is very high. Because we are just starting on this journey, some of our new high-rise buildings are going to stand alone for a long time, unlike New York where the beauty of the skyline lies in the collective mass of tall buildings. In fact when you look closely, many are not special on their own. We are making sure the architecture of our building will work on its own merits."

I've done a spot of research. I had an ask around yesterday to find out what sort of height any structure could reach in Leeds as it is on the flightpath to the airport. I mentioned the approximate height of Bridgewater Place and Lumiere. Apparently, aircraft fly over Leeds City Centre at around 1500-1800 ft about airfield level. Given that the runway is 663ft about sea level and at least 500ft above the city centre. I was told that buildings could rise to at least 80 or 90 storeys before it would start to become a concern. So all in all, our skyscraper future is looking bright!! During the building stage, the cranes cause more of an impact of the airport as they leave a trace on the airports radar, unlike the buildings which are filtered out.

I'd be interested to know what others have heard, because as far as I had heard things were on track not so long ago.
I remember posting a while back that I didnt think there would be any work before the end of April as the contract negotiations were planned to finish around that time, and it's only the 15th May, so it's not disastrous. It WILL happen, and my personal guess is next month. (Purely my opinion). :)

No idea how it works Rob was hoping someone on here would have a beter idea but i would not build a house without knowing how much it would cost to fit it out but maybe these big developments would take that risk


Difficult to answer. The main experience I've had with following design from beginning to end is with one huge project, in that case they started foundations and basements without the services being anywhere near design completion, some services suppliers weren't even on board. However that was a bit of a one off project due to it's size with a four + year build programme, and the end customer was aware of the difficulties and stood by with the cheque book.

My contact started work yesterday....very 'high up' in terms of working with the Lumiere project. Things will start soon...

Sounds like good news.

There were skips full of rubbish on there yesterday, although the JCB had gone. It is looking a lot tidier on there now.

..

Just need news on City One and Criterion to make me a very very happy boy (in Skyscraper terms anyway)...

Just need news on City One and Criterion to make me a very very happy boy (in Skyscraper terms anyway)...

I'll have Criterion from the list above please ! Things are looking goood and its gonna get v busy on here !!!

If city 1 contained the arena or super casino, would you still prefere to see criterion go up? I htink I would.

If city 1 contained the arena or super casino, would you still prefere to see criterion go up? I htink I would.

Oh yes!

If City 1 was the full 40 storeys with a 40th floor restaurant and including the arena, I'm not so sure. That would add major facilities to the city as well as a tower, but Criterion would add the best towers in the UK. Tough choice.

What have you been told?

And, without naming your source, what kind of source is it?

OK, my 'source' is in charge of all the costs involved with the project - essentially keeping everything within budget, and negotiating all contracts. He started on Tuesday. I think it is therefore safe to conclude that Lumiere is on the go. I'll tell everyone who it is a little later down the line.

Ah, a Q.S., .. from 'Burnley Wilson Fish' per chance?
That is definately a step in the right direction, but if they have only just started negotiating contracts we could still be some months away seeing anything on site. Oh well, keep watching this space.

Noticed today when passing there was a guy standing opposite the site on Whitehall Road, with one of those "tripod prism thingy majigs" Hey what they called Rob ! ??? Think they use them for alingment and distance, he was pointing it directly in the middle of the site with the gates open, didn't catch the name on the van, cos the lights had changed and I was holding everyone up ! :ohno:

Probably either a theodolite for accurately measuring angles to survey the site geometry, or a dumpy level which looks similar but is set to horizontal with a spirit level and is used to take levels from a set datum point.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/30/SovietTheodolite.jpg/180px-SovietTheodolite.jpg

Theodolite

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d3/Us_land_survey_officer.jpg/180px-Us_land_survey_officer.jpg

Dumpy level

Excellant descriptions available on Wikipedia.

Thanks Rob, nice example photos.. had a look Wiki, interesting and very informative :) So seeing this "surveyor?" at the Lumiere site, could this mean that the start is just around the corner ?

Ok, here it is. You won't see any work being undertaken until September. They're doing an analasys of the ground as the earth is very poor. So, start in September, a year after that the core will rise.

September start, ok, I can wait for that, plenty more projects to keep an eye on until then.

I remember some substantial core tests being drilled earlier this year, these would form part of the deeper foundation design, I'm wondering what problems they encountered. I expect much of it will relate to the existing building basement and foundations, it will certainly need some substantial ground works to get this one going, a year doesn't surprise me too much.

Ok, here it is. You won't see any work being undertaken until September. They're doing an analasys of the ground as the earth is very poor. So, start in September, a year after that the core will rise.

It seems strange that they have only just decided to carry out an analysis of the ground if it is so poor. I would have thought this kind of work would be done well in advance and probably even before announcing the project. Unless your friend in the business is high up in the pecking order I would probably take his comments with a pinch of salt. We were given an incorrect start date for the Unite building by someone working for the marketing team there. If you're right I suppose now the Unite construction is underway at least we'll have something to drool over between now and September.:nuts:

4 months. What a joke.

...

4 months. What a joke.

Don't expect to see it built in much under five years !
(But don't mind me - that's my cynicism showing)

Your guessing 2012 then. That a year that would be for Leeds; Harewood and Lumier opening around the same time. It would pretty much put the focus on Leeds in the news! What do you think Fred.

I was thinking that this time next year we'll have Lumiere, Greenbank, Monkbridge and the two smaller blocks on whitehall rd U/C.

Thats plenty going on around that area to keep us all busy. :)

Oh and plus the Plaza, Opal etc... Maybe Lumiere won't be out of the ground but it won't matter that much as the whole area will be a hive of activity.

Leeds United might be back in the Premiership by this time... yet pigs might fly!!

asked this before however do you think Manchesters Eastgate will get built before this???

Your guessing 2012 then. That a year that would be for Leeds; Harewood and Lumier opening around the same time. It would pretty much put the focus on Leeds in the news! What do you think Fred.

Yes, it should, Joey.

Hahaha, counterfactual positivity; I love it!

4 months. What a joke.

Well surely whilst I would have thought they would have surveyed of this site already (although it could be something we don't know about they could perhaps have done it in advance of announcing this scheme) and regarding your 4 months chill mate as surely it would be better to do this properly and not risk having the leaning towers of Leeds or worse. :eek:

As for whenever will be completed sooner out of this or Manchester's Inacity Eastgate tower when is that due to commence construction and is to have as long a period of work on the foundations as Lumiere? Certainly the period between now and 2012 should be unprecedented with towers going up all over the city centre. :banana:

Now i'm not very technical when it comes to these things but being a bit cheeky i asked one of the guys on site today what they were doing .He said something about a survey and something along lines that he thinks they will start boring down 30 m on monday ?? havent a clue what that means and whether thats good or bad..company that were there yesterday were called adien ...anyway hope i dont get too much mickey taken but can someone explain what all this means ?? thanks daffy

Now i'm not very technical when it comes to these things but being a bit cheeky i asked one of the guys on site today what they were doing .He said something about a survey and something along lines that he thinks they will start boring down 30 m on monday ?? havent a clue what that means and whether thats good or bad..company that were there yesterday were called adien ...anyway hope i dont get too much mickey taken but can someone explain what all this means ?? thanks daffy

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say on the basis of the above, then this project is to start imminently. I seem to remember boring work on the BWP site before the main construction started immediately after.

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say on the basis of the above, then this project is to start imminently. I seem to remember boring work on the BWP site before the main construction started immediately after.

I hope you are right Smartcity.............how exciting will it be to see diggers/drillers on site at Lumiere and The Plaza

Hahaha, counterfactual positivity; I love it!

More like counter- intuitive !

Now i'm not very technical when it comes to these things but being a bit cheeky i asked one of the guys on site today what they were doing .He said something about a survey and something along lines that he thinks they will start boring down 30 m on monday ?? havent a clue what that means and whether thats good or bad..company that were there yesterday were called adien ...anyway hope i dont get too much mickey taken but can someone explain what all this means ?? thanks daffy

As they're surveying, probably more test boring to the full depth to take core samples. From memory I think it was a Taylor Woodrow team that did the last ones, perhaps they highlighted this poor ground material that Liam mentioned and they need to drill deeper. Thanks for asking them Skybrum, most of us aren't cheeky enough really :)

Passed Lumiere site this afternoon, and there was a big yellow digger on site...could this be the start of something very very tall?!!!

Yeh i saw that, twas big indeed. I dont think it moved from 10 am till 6 pm though.

I finish my exams tomorrow so i might walk down to the site.

Im back in Leeds on tuesday so I'll pass the site on my way back from the coach station. If I remember to take my camera back up with me I'll try and get a pic. Depends how many bags I have to carry though.
Glad to hear that there is some activity on site. 2007 is looking to be a promising year for Leeds with this, The Plaza and Opal and a few others.

I'm off work today so I'll be heading down there soon.. meeting Smartcity, If you wanna spot us I'm wearing a blue Boston Red Sox T-Shirt , Smartcity will be sporting his hat or toupee :colgate: Lets hope we can get some good pics and info :nocrook:

I'm off work today so I'll be heading down there soon.. meeting Smartcity, If you wanna spot us I'm wearing a blue Boston Red Sox T-Shirt , Smartcity will be sporting his hat or toupee :colgate: Lets hope we can get some good pics and info :nocrook:


Hmm, I was driving along Whitehall Road/Aire Street at about 1.15pm. There was a guy chatting to a couple of the construction workers; he was wearing a darkish blue tee shirt with the number 5 on the back. Was that you?

Ladies and gentlemen......

We appear to have a start! I went passed to site today and the HUGE digger had completely obliterated the top layer of cement. I don't believe how fast it had come about. There where bolders lying everywhere. If this doesn't constitute a start, what does?

New Thread? :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Ladies and gentlemen......

We appear to have a start! I went passed to site today and the HUGE digger had completely obliterated the top layer of cement. I don't believe how fast it had come about. There where bolders lying everywhere. If this doesn't constitute a start, what does?Great news Joey - well spotted!

New Thread? :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:Ooh, tempting. But let's wait until we get up to 500 posts (that's supposed to be the official limit isn't it?). Come on everyone - how quickly can we get up to 500? Only a few more to go...

Well... GO LEEDS! Seriously, this is a major march on the rivals if this one has started. What a coup! a 171 and a 112 underway, and talk of a speculative build being thrown up at City Square. Spec builds just don't occur unless the developer is extremely confident in the city. They're even fairly rare down here in London, with most developers preferring to secure a minimum occupancy before starting.

Now, something I don't do often...

:banana:

Subliving.

what a day!!!!

Just found i have had some design work published and now news that this is starting!

Result!!

:cheers:

I just hope I don't end up with egg on my face. It has been the clearest sign of a start in that they are actually digging up the whole site. You should have seen the size of the diggers erm claw (lets call it). I was very shocked how fast things had moved in a morning.

If it is indeed a start, that would be Lumiere (171m and 112m), the plaza (103m) and opal (82m) all starting onsite within the last year and providence tower (100m), monkbridge forge tower (99m) in the waiting!!!

I just hope I don't end up with egg on my face.

You won't.

I popped back this afternoon to have a look and the diggers were knocking seven kinds of shit out of the surface concrete. It made me quite giddy to watch as I realised work was actually underway.

Ooh, tempting. But let's wait until we get up to 500 posts (that's supposed to be the official limit isn't it?). Come on everyone - how quickly can we get up to 500? Only a few more to go...

Is it not 1000 posts? I'm not sure. The Leeds thread needs updating whatever the limit.

Great news if this is the start of construction. I can't wait to see this rising.

Is it not 1000 posts? I'm not sure. The Leeds thread needs updating whatever the limit.

Great news if this is the start of construction. I can't wait to see this rising.It used to be 500, but they've probably changed that since the new servers were put in. At any rate, let's make sure we don't have more than one person starting a new thread on this subject. May I suggest that Joey has the honour?

It used to be 500, but they've probably changed that since the new servers were put in. At any rate, let's make sure we don't have more than one person starting a new thread on this subject. May I suggest that Joey has the honour?

Cool, i have a poor memory. Go for it Joey.

Ladies and gentlemen......

We appear to have a start! I went passed to site today and the HUGE digger had completely obliterated the top layer of cement. I don't believe how fast it had come about. There where bolders lying everywhere. If this doesn't constitute a start, what does?

lol.....CALM DOWN GUYS...

test boring is far from the start of construction and diggers need to clear concrete from the serface to be able to do such testing!

this is a good sign, but it isnt the start of construction!

Oh, and whoever it is that starts up the new thread - can I just make one request? I don't normally mention this kind of thing but - COULD YOU PLEASE MAKE SURE THE THREAD TITLE IS SPELT CORRECTLY? :)

Great news, it is good to see an actual start on site in many ways, although as Woodhousen says, it may not be the start of a continuous construction sequence .. yet!

We have seen major demolition and site clearance works before (eg City Square House). However, I think (all the signs are) that this will be more than just a site clearance and is the for-runner to actual construction in the not too distant future.

We also don't know if there is to be more test bores or real pile boring to take place soon, but I would correct Woodhousen in that they don't need to clear all the concrete to test bore (they can and have made localised holes to do test bores), full clearance is preparation for full piling.

They've got a lot to do to clear the site as that block is deep (as you can see by the trenches that run along Wellington Street, presuming the block is hollow basement or backfilled, it will all need to be excavated at some point, so I'm not surprised that they've started now.