Lumiere Thread - 2 [Archive]

Subliving

January 9th, 2007, 08:17 PM

No concert hall and lack of really good museums and art galleries to rival those in other major cities. Surprisingly enough the shopping too ! To paraphrase the saying "One Harvey Nichols 'does not a shopping paradise make'. There aught to be at least two large department stores to complement what there is now - and what is claimed to be a unique shopping attraction, Kirkgate Market, is now a sad reflection of its former glory with a neglected look with so many empty stalls. And the state of the roads and the pavements even in the centre of town and the ubiquitous gum on the pavements - more I think than I have ever seen elsewhere. You can also guarantee that not all the street lights on major roads and intersections are working at any one time. Is that enough?

:ohno:

Don't criticise Leeds for shopping. Department stores do not a city centre make. Since the renovation of the VQ, Leeds has been all about the boutique experience. So what if Selfridges isn't there? Name me anything significant that you can get in Selfridges (except for those yummy doughnuts!) that you cannot get somewhere in Harvey Nichols or the VQ? I laugh every time I go to Manchester. In the Exchange quarter there, you have Selfridges next door to Harvey Nichols, both selling exactly the same Armani/Prada etc mix.

Concert hall and museums I will agree on. However, I really don't think that the lack of them really would cause the couple of million people living in the Leeds region to move out.

As for chewing gum, clearly you've never been to Islington (where I live). I don't think you can say that London is not a major city. Chewing gum on the floor does not mean that your city is not major.

And again, street lighting, have you ever travelled around London? I'd put a guestimate on Islington that about a quarter of them don't work. The M1 as it passes the M25 also seems to be the point at which street lights stop working. To be honest, bust lights really don't say to me, "This isn't a city!"

Transport system... My home in Leeds is out in the provinces or North Leeds, and to be honest, although there's no tram or brilliant rail network, the buses never let me down getting into Leeds. I have never been late for work in the city due to a bus not turning up. I can't say it'd be the same for everybody, but like everyone else on here we must go by our own experiences.

Kirkgate Market... Ever been to Billingborough market near Canary Wharf?

Subliving.

Naboo

January 9th, 2007, 08:20 PM

Winter Gardens ? Are they planned. Do you know something we don't know No.1 ?

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000173/M00001355/AI00002583/0601622FU.pdf

The Atrium that joins the two towers is to be a winter garden I believe.

Rob

January 9th, 2007, 08:22 PM

Leeds No.1

January 9th, 2007, 08:49 PM

The winter gardens will be at the base linking the two towers.

JOliver

January 9th, 2007, 10:10 PM

- Gum is here to stay, it seems to rain down from the sky, has since the mid 20th century I believe .. worldwide phenomenon (due to global warming perhaps).

Apart from Singapore, where chewing gum is illegal and you can be fined/jailed just for bringing it in, for chewing and splitting I think you'll get shot without warning. OK, the latter is probably not true, but I'd like to see littering fines working here.

SimCity4

January 9th, 2007, 11:01 PM

That would be good idea it would stop littering and they could use the money for better transport etc.

LeedsLad

January 9th, 2007, 11:19 PM

There's a £50 fine scheme in place in Leeds and a team of enforcers - guess they need a lot more enforcers to make a real difference. Loads of people end up in the YEP for dropping cig butts out of cars. They also seemed to make a real effort with the new grey half recycling half waste bins dotted all across Leeds. The council also has a team of chewing gum removers in the city centre with a special machine - seen them doing that a few times - bit of an endless job though...

Chogmook

January 10th, 2007, 12:44 AM

An example of what Lumiere's sheer wall of glass may look like in reality (imagine the blade as pure glass too!)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/152/338639762_9595010dfe.jpg?v=0

Leeds No.1

January 10th, 2007, 01:16 AM

It'll probably be more imposing; its being built in an already relitavely dense area so on the skyline itll appear shorter; so people will be forced to get quite near to get a full view; and looking up at 171m worth of endless glass among an already dense area is very impressive!

Fred2

January 10th, 2007, 02:13 AM

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000173/M00001355/AI00002583/0601622FU.pdf

The Atrium that joins the two towers is to be a winter garden I believe.

What a laugh! I have already commented ad nauseam about the small site for the Lumiere towers - how extensive do you think this atrium will be. Can you compare it to the Sheffield Winter Garden ?

Rob: True, 'Rome wasn't built in a day', but we are talking about Leeds, and whilst it takes its time to get its act together do you really think that the other towns and cities are standing still ?
Have you visited the Market recently ? You should go - it has become a sad depressing place, especially in the part nearest the bus station. Ask stall holders what they think about it. Even the open market is not as good as it was.

And Subliving, you make London sound so bad - its amazing that people are ever drawn there and willing to pay those fancy prices for property. Leeds or London ? I can guess which would win hands down.

I still prefer Leeds myself - but I just want it to be better !

Subliving

January 10th, 2007, 08:39 AM

And Subliving, you make London sound so bad - its amazing that people are ever drawn there and willing to pay those fancy prices for property. Leeds or London ? I can guess which would win hands down.

I still prefer Leeds myself - but I just want it to be better !

I'm not trying to make London sound bad. It isn't, it's a great place. (Yes, I do also prefer Leeds as a place to live.)

I was just pointing out that some of the things you mentioned also apply to one of the alpha world cities. No city is perfect by any stretch of the imagination. Paris smells of sewage, Milan has the worst suburbs I've ever seen (close second is Funchal in Portugal), Bridgetown has the homeless everywhere and a distinct lack of concert facilities and supertram network, Medina (Malta) has the worst taxis I've ever seen, not including Beijing where I have not visited, Orlando has no city centre but instead a giant motorway which has been given the name 'International Drive', Milton Keynes has too many roundabouts, see where this is going?

Leeds isn't perfect, nobody's pretending it is. However there are plenty of other places far worse than Leeds. And to use its flaws to say that it isn't a major city, that's just barmy.

Subliving.

p.s. Congratulations on your 1000th post, Fred.

Leeds No.1

January 10th, 2007, 08:44 AM

I think just comparing it within this country gets sufficent results; most major cities have problems worse than Leeds, other than maybe transport.

di Livio

January 10th, 2007, 10:26 AM

Fred2

January 10th, 2007, 10:30 AM

Leeds isn't perfect, nobody's pretending it is. However there are plenty of other places far worse than Leeds. And to use its flaws to say that it isn't a major city, that's just barmy.

Subliving.

p.s. Congratulations on your 1000th post, Fred.

Many thanks, Subliving, for pointing this out to me - I had missed it. It's a pity my 1000th appeared to be so negative. However, there is no point in comparing apples and pears. I judge Leeds by its peers, i.e. the other major cities in THIS country only. Also I restrict most of my comments and criticisms to its city centre. After all is said and done, the one thing that everyone praises Leeds for (if nothing else) is its shopping - yet it is not the best or even near the best now in that department. To add to my previous gripes how on earth can decrepit awful places like Market Street Arcade and lower Kirkgate be allowed to exist in such a so called smart and modern shopping area ? Yes we could do with more greenery, like trees on the Headrow - though where can there be any land available for little parks except in the new Eastgate development ?

Fred2

January 10th, 2007, 10:39 AM

Not having a purpose built concert hall speaks volumes about the people who live here. In most UK cities it is a cultural given, but in Leeds it isn't considered to be a priority. It's a bit arrogant to think that people will be desperate to re-locate to Leeds because of shops and bars that can be found anywhere now. A few councillors need to get out and see the rest of the country.

Am afraid you are right di Livio. The City Council are even prepared to spend £20 million of our hard earned cash in a vain attempt to tart up the Town Hall, yet again, to make it into a concert hall - an utter waste of money. I wouldn't like to tell you what the great pianist Alfred Brendel is reported to have said about Leeds Town Hall - suffice it to say he will never play there again.

Monsoon

January 10th, 2007, 11:35 AM

eastgate people said that they planned to put trees on the headrow, and make it only accesable to busses and taxis.

Fred2

January 10th, 2007, 11:53 AM

It's a bit arrogant to think that people will be desperate to re-locate to Leeds because of shops and bars that can be found anywhere now. A few councillors need to get out and see the rest of the country.

The vast majority of people who relocate to Leeds do so for jobs. I must praise Leeds here for the creation of so many jobs in the last 15 years or so. Trouble is most who have come here for those jobs don't actually live in Leeds and commute from its 'hinterland' - thus adding to its traffic problems. One theoretical advantage of increased city living is the reduction in growth of these traffic problems.

Subliving

January 10th, 2007, 12:01 PM

After all is said and done, the one thing that everyone praises Leeds for (if nothing else) is its shopping - yet it is not the best or even near the best now in that department.

As I said before, it may not be full of department stores, but how many places do you really want to pick up your new Prada shoes? Surely one is enough. I know from my experience of living down here in London, people don't go into Selridges, then Harvey Nichols, Harrods, Debenhams, John Lewis'. They simply pic one which they like the look of best and pick up everything they need from that one. We really don't need a city centre full of department stores. Personally, I hate them. What I think we should do is praise Leeds for what it does have. We have one of the only stand-alone Jo Malone stores in the country. Manchester doesn't have one. We should look to things like this to see where Leeds shines in the shopping stakes.

Maybe, and this is by no means an insult, it is a generational thing. I don't think older people in this country are used to boutique shopping. They tend to prefer to go into one store and get everything in there. However, younger people enjoy the idea of personal service and expertise that the boutique experience offers. It's what I've seen working where I did. It's the same in London too.

To add to my previous gripes how on earth can decrepit awful places like Market Street Arcade and lower Kirkgate be allowed to exist in such a so called smart and modern shopping area ?

You see the same in every city. I think we'd all agree that Milan is by far the best place in Europe, if not the world, to shop. However, you go into Galleria Vittorio Emmanuel, and there's a McDonals opposite Gucci, Prada and Louis Vuitton, with a tatty old memorabilia shop next to a run-down restaurant in the same arcade. You get it everywhere. You just have to take off the rose-tinted glasses when you're out and about visiting other places. However, it you're right, it'd be nice if they'd do something about it. The problem is, who is 'they'? The same 'they' that are going to redevelop the British Gas tower thing, and various other dreams of ours?

Yes we could do with more greenery, like trees on the Headrow - though where can there be any land available for little parks except in the new Eastgate development ?

Agree with you 100% here. Demolish Asda and make it half into an urban park, the other half given over to a skyscraper! In all seriousness, Leeds could do with a lot more greenery. When the park was taken away from the front of the Civic Hall, we lost one of two green areas that I can think of in the city. And no, the moss growing in the Market Street Arcade does not count.

By the way, I do love your posts, Fred. Always gives me something to talk about. :hug:

Subliving.

Fred2

January 10th, 2007, 12:17 PM

Maybe, and this is by no means an insult, it is a generational thing. I don't think older people in this country are used to boutique shopping. They tend to prefer to go into one store and get everything in there. However, younger people enjoy the idea of personal service and expertise that the boutique experience offers. It's what I've seen working where I did. It's the same in London too.

By the way, I do love your posts, Fred. Always gives me something to talk about. :hug:

Subliving.

Thank you kind sir.

Of course I realise that is a generational thing. But that's just the point -a good shopping centre should cater for ALL tastes and generations ! :)

Typhoo25

January 10th, 2007, 12:56 PM

As muc as it is easy to look at the negative things about Leeds (which All cities have), we seem to forget about where the city has come from. THe jobs, the wealth, the buildings, the shops, the surroundings to the city and most importantly the people are all what makes Leeds special.

Anyone reading these posts would be led to believe that Leeds is the only city in the world witha chuddie/litter issue. Every city faces this. We do not have an arena...so what. We have lived this long without one, but will get one soon. How many other cities other than London have the festivals and large scale concerts that Leeds can shout about. Look at places such as the cockpit and the refectory with all the history ('Live in Leeds + No sleep till Hammersmith). How many times have you been to see a band in a hangar such as Sheff arena and come away thinking, I would love to see them in an intimate setting such as the cockpit.

We have one of the highest rated police forces, some quality hospitals and millions/billions of £'s of developments going on which constantly improve every aspect of the city. And as a regular commuter into Leeds, I have to say that every other major city in the country has at least as bad traffic issues.

As for the market, it is a little run down and the stall holders are pissed off at present, can we say for sure that every other market stall holder in other cities are happy.

It is not about settling for second best or for papering over the cracks, but as I have said on this forum before, people here get so close to things that they miss things. Everyone slagged off the new opal tower as being shite. Fine, but five years ago you would have been wetting yourselves with excitment. We canot have everything perfect as much as we would like this to be the case, but I believe a bit of optimism and balance is required sometimes.

Molly

January 10th, 2007, 01:51 PM

It's a bit arrogant to think that people will be desperate to re-locate to Leeds because of shops and bars that can be found anywhere now. A few councillors need to get out and see the rest of the country.
actually Leeds scores very highly as a pleasant place to live..it must be the top most people friendly city in this country... it offers a good quality of life even for lower earners as well as for the big earners. This city was nothing just a short 10 years ago..who would have thought we would see such a rapid rate of progress here. I can think of no city equal to Leeds in its nature...yes it deserves a good concert hall and so on and this will come. just we need to be a little patient.

Fred2

January 10th, 2007, 03:07 PM

Subliving

January 10th, 2007, 03:13 PM

Fred2

January 10th, 2007, 03:16 PM

Dare I ask how old you are, Fred?

Subliving.

78. :cheers:

Leeds No.1

January 10th, 2007, 04:30 PM

actually Leeds scores very highly as a pleasant place to live..it must be the top most people friendly city in this country... it offers a good quality of life even for lower earners as well as for the big earners. This city was nothing just a short 10 years ago..who would have thought we would see such a rapid rate of progress here. I can think of no city equal to Leeds in its nature...yes it deserves a good concert hall and so on and this will come. just we need to be a little patient.

This is partly due to Leeds getting ahead with technology. If not the first, it was one of the first cities to have full broadband and digital coverage (attractive for businesses); hence a boom in ebusinesses.

Quality of life; im not actually sure why it is so high :S Maybe because it suffered less industrial decline/less 60s regeneration than alot of cities? Or to do with the fact its quite a green city, away from the city centre?

Subliving

January 10th, 2007, 05:14 PM

78. :cheers:

Are you one of those funky grandparents that everyone wants to adopt? I dunno why but I just have the image of you chasing chavs down the street, running at prep school 100m running pace waving a bamboo cane, screaming at the top of your voice. Then you catch them and tie them up with piano wire cunningly hidden in your flat cap. At that point you force them to eat the chewing gum they threw on the floor... three months ago!

I dunno why, just the image I have. :guns1:

Subliving.

Molly

January 10th, 2007, 06:47 PM

Of course, both Typhoo and Molly are right -there are a lot of good things about Leeds and if I appear to be hypercritical - well it's because I expect the city in which I was born and bred and live to be amongst the best, and if it falls below my expectations - it can be terribly disappointing. I am old enough to have lived through the tremendous transformation that has taken place in Leeds in the last few decades, but for that very reason (of age), calls for patience don''t wash with me ! :)
Fred... lol! You seriously have no patience! I don't care how old you are to have as much patience as an...err..as an impatient person!

Things don't get any better than they are right now...the hope is to see regeneration continue through at a continuous steady pace over the next 40 50 years without loosing the charm and character of the city. A steady growth is so preferable than boom and bust speedy growth followed by long term decay and dereliction. Prior to this decade Leeds was nothing..no one knew it existed! Ask a Londoner 10 year ago about Leeds and they would be clueless..ask them now and they know it is a thriving city! They might even know where it is! Anything outside London had such low status here in the London dominated UK... and at last that is starting to change and this is something well worth celebrating because London has dominated the UK not for decades but for centuries!

Quality of life; im not actually sure why it is so high :S Maybe because it suffered less industrial decline/less 60s regeneration than alot of cities? Or to do with the fact its quite a green city, away from the city centre?
quality of life...because of the compact well laid out city center and pedestrianisation, and a very pleasant scenic but gentle landscape..plenty of attractive parks and green areas, the city being surrounded by a wide variety of stunning landscapes. Good weather being East of the pennies and a low altitude and geographically central. Despite the gripes a decent public transport and decent network of roads, superb train links and an ever increasingly serviceable airport. Good schools, good health care with plenty of youth facilities, plenty of facilities all round. Good adult education colleges and excellent university facilities. Superb array of options for affordable housing in many friendly and decently respectable community areas... good and highly versatile career prospects and plenty of leisure facilities to relax and spend our well earned cash... and also yes in my opinion a good assortment of well presented quality and affordable retail within a city bursting with life and with character. etc..etc..etc...

Rob

January 10th, 2007, 08:03 PM

Trouble is most who have come here for those jobs don't actually live in Leeds and commute from its 'hinterland' - thus adding to its traffic problems.

Actually, about 100,000 (out of the 440,000 workers in Leeds) commute into the Leeds district (many by train), but at the same time 50,000 Leeds dwellers commute out of the region each day (me being one of them). So your 'most' is a little inacurate. :)

Naboo

January 10th, 2007, 08:58 PM

What a laugh! I have already commented ad nauseam about the small site for the Lumiere towers - how extensive do you think this atrium will be. Can you compare it to the Sheffield Winter Garden ?

I know only what it says in the plans. Not defending it, just answering your request for info.

As it's only a small part of a much larger development I don't think it will compare to the Winter Garden in Sheffield.

LeedsLad

January 10th, 2007, 09:16 PM

78. :cheers:
^^
Silver Surfer
:ancient: :cheers1:

Martin G

January 11th, 2007, 12:17 AM

Blimey!! :eek: Since when did they add three more storeys to this thing? Last I heard, it was 51 storeys! This one is going to be an absolute monolith. I will be excited to see it started this spring..... It's going to piss all over the boring box of Manchester's Hilton tower!

Fred2

January 11th, 2007, 01:02 AM

Are you one of those funky grandparents that everyone wants to adopt? I dunno why but I just have the image of you chasing chavs down the street, running at prep school 100m running pace waving a bamboo cane, screaming at the top of your voice. Then you catch them and tie them up with piano wire cunningly hidden in your flat cap. At that point you force them to eat the chewing gum they threw on the floor... three months ago!

I dunno why, just the image I have. :guns1:

Subliving.

Not me, Subliving. Looking back at some of my posts I must give the impression of being like Victor Meldrew in that comedy programme 'One Foot in the Grave'. However, I am just an ordinary bloke who, like everyone else, is extraordinary.

Silver surfer, Leeds Lad ? Yes, I suppose so. Have had a computer for 14 years now and been on the internet for 10 years.
Was born in very humble circumstances in a typical Leeds back-to-back house with shared outside toilets and am so old that I remember the Civic Hall being built (it was opened in 1933). We had our first TV set in 1954 and I remember, amongst many other things, going to Golden Acre Park when it was an amusement park- it was a whole day's outing then and entailed a tram and bus journey.

Fred2

January 11th, 2007, 01:08 AM

Actually, about 100,000 (out of the 440,000 workers in Leeds) commute into the Leeds district (many by train), but at the same time 50,000 Leeds dwellers commute out of the region each day (me being one of them). So your 'most' is a little inacurate. :)

A few years ago it was stated that the number of extra jobs created in Leeds (I think it was of the order of 100,000 though I could be wrong) in the previous decade or so almost exactly matched the increase in the number of commuters to the city. I will try to find the source and exact figures if available online.

Leeds No.1

January 11th, 2007, 01:15 AM

Fred2

January 11th, 2007, 01:41 AM

I dont mean to turn this into a question and answer session! But why did you get the internet? Most older people tend not to bother with technology, that Ive noticed anyway. Must be alot easier to access information now; Im guessing in the 60s it was harder to get information on all the new building schemes? ie less protest/debate over schemes/interest in development.

In 1996 I started a two year part time course at university reading for an MA (which I got aged 70). I was already quite computer literate, but it was then that I had to learn to use email and thus go on the internet. As for building schemes etc. I wasn't that interested in the topic at the time, though I remember in 1992 doing a course at Swarthmore on writing articles and one I submitted was on
Leeds modern architecture and I remember that the so called 'Leeds Look' (all the rage at the time) featured quite a lot in it. I was also a very fierce critic (and still am) of what we now call Quarry House which had just been built.

Martin G

January 11th, 2007, 01:41 AM

Fred2

January 11th, 2007, 08:38 AM

I actually find it wonderful that a person as elderly and mature as Fred is here on this SSC forum at all. The fact that people can be so surprised that someone in their 70s is posting on a message board that is populated mostly by youngsters. (I'm not exactly young either, being in my middle age as well having been born in the early 1960s) :) It's cool to see at least one forumer here flying the flag for the more senior vote so to speak.

We need more people like this here to instil a sense of wisdom and judgement, especially considering they've seen a hell of a lot more in their time than the rest of us have and have equal liberty to comment on how our surroundings are changing...if not always for the better! :yes:

A big up to Fred 2! :hi:

Believe it or not, people always seem to have a dig at ME on the SSC skybar for being old and "a bit of a Victor Meldrew", but then again the longer one has been around, the more people like us have every right to comment!! ;)

Thanks Martin G. You are absolutely right - but I don't think I am SO exceptional - there must now be many more siver surfers and the internet is a wonderful way for 'more mature' people like your truly to keep in touch with the world and help keep those brain synapses working at full stretch ! Yes we have the experience which most people who contribute here lack but I wouldn't want that to drown out the idealism and optimism of youth that we see expressed on fora (yes that's the proper plural of the word) like this. :)

Fred2

January 11th, 2007, 08:42 AM

Btw, Martin G. You are only a youngster !

Leeds No.1

January 11th, 2007, 08:50 AM

Why do you get up so early!?

Molly

January 11th, 2007, 10:11 AM

I dont mean to turn this into a question and answer session! But why did you get the internet? Most older people tend not to bother with technology, that Ive noticed anyway.

actually that's not true...most forums I know I am the average as I am in the real world out there... most forums I know well have members aged 14 to 90..the oldest I've known being 92+ So Fred is actually still a youngster imo.

Forums flooded with youths though do not attract more mature members and so a forum like that it makes the internet look like only those type/age use it. So it is essential to get a respectable mix of people here.

Being one of the oldest members of SSC for so long it's great to see a greater mix here at last and this brings a better ballance. I think now the members are very mixed in ages compared to two or three years ago. It's been hard in the past seeing how upset some older member have been by the youth culture here on SSC it is hars for some people to go from being an average citizen to a total minority. Hopefully now the forum is better cleaned up the place here will be more inviting to a wider selection of society. Society is diverse and a city development forum like this needs members who can fully represent such diversity if it is to be meaningful.

However... it is still fun to have a little go at Fred cos he can handle it! Great lad our Fred. Probably a lot younger in spirit than many youngsters. :cheers:

Since when did they add three more storeys to this thing?
they can easily add as many as they like cos this tower is all about clever marketing.. when they add extra floors the public think they are adding extra width rather than height. So those people don't go oh it is too tall we it will block out the sun they just think look how long it is! How can they fit that on such a small site! ;)

Fred2

January 11th, 2007, 10:21 AM

Why do you get up so early!?

'The early bird....' etc. ! No, maybe I don't need to sleep as much as I did when I was younger. Can always cat nap during the day.

Fred2

January 11th, 2007, 10:33 AM

So Fred is actually still a youngster imo.
However... it is still fun to have a little go at Fred cos he can handle it! Great lad our Fred. Probably a lot younger in spirit than many youngsters. :cheers:

Still a youngster ? I was going to say I wish that were true - but it isn't really. They say that every age has its compensations. I am just thankful to have reached this age - though it is not nowadays so exceptional and is becoming less so as time goes on. Over the last century the mean age at death has gone up from less than 50 by 2-3 years per decade. Don't get me started on this - demography is one of my subjects, and this forum is about skyscrapers.

Molly, have a go at me as much as you want. I hope I have retained a good sense of humour. I think the balloon of my feeling of self importance needs pricking often - at least once a day ! But understand I am prepared to give as much as I take ! :)

di Livio

January 11th, 2007, 11:50 AM

In 1996 I started a two year part time course at university reading for an MA (which I got aged 70).

Respect. University shouldn't just be for 19-23 year olds.

I take it you didn't kick over any bins in Headingley at three in the morning.

Martin G

January 11th, 2007, 01:28 PM

Thanks Martin G. You are absolutely right - but I don't think I am SO exceptional - there must now be many more siver surfers and the internet is a wonderful way for 'more mature' people like your truly to keep in touch with the world and help keep those brain synapses working at full stretch ! Yes we have the experience which most people who contribute here lack but I wouldn't want that to drown out the idealism and optimism of youth that we see expressed on fora (yes that's the proper plural of the word) like this. :)

Btw, Martin G. You are only a youngster !

Fora! Yay! :banana: I think that's the first time I've seen the plural used in its proper context on this board! :D

It's always refreshing to see this though. It's the same as having mature students amongst us at University. When I was in Newcastle upon Tyne's University of Northumbria (then known as the Polytechnic), between 1984 and 1987 doing my graphic design BA / media production & animation courses [yep - for one year - 1986-1987 - I was actually on TWO courses simultaneously], we had two mature students, one a lady from Bristol aged 63 and another gent from almost locally - Hexham - on our course. They both did just as well as all of the youngsters, and there was none of this ageism nonsense that one would normally expect to get. They blended in perfectly well on both social and academic fronts. :yes:

Mind you, you may say that I'm only a youngster, but as I get older, I DO actually start drifiting away from hanging round with younger company or people of similar (or slightly lesser) age than myself. I suppose it's either a subconscious thing or something.

A few years ago I was playing in loads of bands, and frequently finding myself in club / pub environments as a result of this, so naturally I would be always around much younger folks and students in our social circle ... nowadays I have been busying myself with voluntary work in areas such as museums, conservation, heritage, and annual events such as folk festivals (which I have been attending for 18 years now) and obviously in such environments I get to encounter much more older people than myself. And effectively I've embraced this and become a full part of it. It's great that I can do these festivals, become actively involved either as a participant, a photographer or indeed just a spectator, but I have since - over the last 5 years - made so many friends and acquaintances with people who are over the age of 50 I now regard it as my newest social circle, whilst at the same time I have virtually left the old one, based around clubs, pubs and youngster-orientated activities (loud rock gigs and the like for example) behind me.

It might have something to do with getting older, but it also has a lot to do with me simply getting bored of having my ears blasted with loud noise and preferring more sedate, relaxed and less fraught surroundings. Doing folk trains (helping out with the hospitality, co-hosting, the photography, even sometimes playing along with the bands themselves) for the last 18 months has been a natural progression of my previous long association with folk events, and it's become something I simply love doing and I can't imagine my life without it. Needless to say, it gives me plentiful opportunities to interact socially with a whole range of age groups this time round - from children to the most golden of all oldies, and it's a great thing to have as far as I'm concerned. I enjoy this so much, I don't have any real desire to go back to the old loud rock gig / studenty circle anymore, cos I feel like I'm done with that in a manner of speaking.

If anything, I have always preferred [conversational] interaction with oldsters rather than youngsters cos of the simple fact that they have had a much richer experience of life events and how things have changed. There's always subjects I could relate to with them when speaking to them on a casual everyday basis, something that is never quite so easily obtained when talking to students or even people in their early 30s.

Maybe now, I simply prefer to hang round with people more my age - if not much older! Though, it has to be said, most of the people at these folk events I partake in find it hard to believe that I really am as old as I tell them I am - they think I'm pulling their leg and that I must be a student or somesuch, which is kind of strange....surely I don't look that young??! :)

Fred2

January 11th, 2007, 01:34 PM

Respect. University shouldn't just be for 19-23 year olds.

I take it you didn't kick over any bins in Headingley at three in the morning.

Absolutely, di Livio. Education, and not just in universities, is an ever ongoing process - or should be. Once I lose my sense of curiosity, wonder and desire to learn, that will be the end !

If I did kick over any bins at that ridiculous time it would have been only in my dreams - and I would only have had a go at the empty bins.

Electric_City

January 11th, 2007, 01:39 PM

Absolutely, di Livio. Education, and not just in universities, is an ever ongoing process - or should be. Once I lose my sense of curiosity, wonder and desire to learn, that will be the end !

If I did kick over any bins at that ridiculous time it would have been only in my dreams - and I would only have had a go at the empty bins.So now we know who it is who kicks over the bins in the dead of night - it's Fred in his psychic dreams! I can feel a film script coming on! :)

Fred2

January 11th, 2007, 01:49 PM

So now we know who it is who kicks over the bins in the dead of night - it's Fred in his psychic dreams! I can feel a film script coming on! :)

Ha ha !

Molly

January 11th, 2007, 02:17 PM

Though, it has to be said, most of the people at these folk events I partake in find it hard to believe that I really am as old as I tell them I am - they think I'm pulling their leg and that I must be a student or somesuch, which is kind of strange....surely I don't look that young??!

There Martin! Proof! :banana:

Martin G

January 11th, 2007, 02:49 PM

^^ Ahhh.....but that's what THEY'RE saying ...... that doesn't automatically suggest that I necessarily share THEIR collective point of view, does it? !!! :|

Molly

January 11th, 2007, 03:23 PM

...aaah..but it does mean you are outvoted! :)

larven

January 11th, 2007, 06:02 PM

I've just done a nice night time render, which I'm sure you'll see in due course.

I remember mentioning to you that I would love to see what you could do with some big glassy towers such as Criterion. Well this may not be that specific project but as good as, can't wait to see the night time render or "series" of renders that you've done! Do you know when the images will be released?

Fred2

January 12th, 2007, 01:13 AM

Actually, about 100,000 (out of the 440,000 workers in Leeds) commute into the Leeds district (many by train), but at the same time 50,000 Leeds dwellers commute out of the region each day (me being one of them). So your 'most' is a little inacurate. :)

Rob, this was your reply to my assertion that "Trouble is most who have come here for those jobs don't actually live in Leeds and commute from its 'hinterland' - thus adding to its traffic problems".

I did say in reply to your quote that I would try to find the source of my assertion to which you object. Haven't been successful yet but here, as an indirect confirmation, is a passage from a letter to me in the year 2000 from Mr.K.T.Preston, Director of WYPTE. He wrote ".....Leeds will increase its number of jobs by the year 2010 by around 50,000 with the majority of those commuting from outside of Leeds...". QED !

CharlieP

January 12th, 2007, 01:44 PM

Fora! Yay! :banana: I think that's the first time I've seen the plural used in its proper context on this board! :D

<Coughs loudy> Ahem! (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=373513&highlight=fora)

Molly

January 12th, 2007, 02:25 PM

....oh geesh... :ohno: :dunno:

... are you three related..?

Martin G

January 12th, 2007, 06:41 PM

Three Molly? :?

Who's the third person....? Do you know summat [sic] I don't ?

Molly

January 12th, 2007, 06:50 PM

Three Molly? :?

Who's the third person....? Do you know summat [sic] I don't ?

Oh do I need to explain ....

You CharlieP and our Fred: The Fora Three. ( umm..it isn't that catchy sounding so you really need a 4th ..probably Jimbo at a guess. )

CharlieP

January 12th, 2007, 08:00 PM

The Fora Five is catchier, although I should point out that when using a noun as a descriptor, you usually take its singular form (e.g. The Carphone Warehouse rather than The Carphones Warehouse)...

SmartCity

January 12th, 2007, 10:26 PM

I don't think anyone really gives a flying monkey(ies)lol :-)

Gallery North

January 13th, 2007, 01:16 AM

And I thought this was the thread for Lumiere.

www.gallerynorth.co.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69451609@N00/

SmartCity

January 13th, 2007, 01:25 AM

Construction due to start April 2007

54 and 32 storey MONSTER

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/SMARTCITY/gothicform.jpg
Credit to Gothicform for posting the original picture

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/SMARTCITY/daveylad.jpg
Thanks to daveylad for the picture
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/SMARTCITY/DiLivio2.jpg
Di Livio posted the original picture
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/SMARTCITY/11498_WESTCENTRAL_VIEW2_DRAFT_Revis.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/SMARTCITY/DiLivio.jpg
Di Livio posted the original picture
The location
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/SMARTCITY/leeds_m46_station.jpg

Gallery North

January 13th, 2007, 01:49 AM

Thankyou SmartCity.

Leeds No.1

January 13th, 2007, 01:53 AM

Whats going on at City Square House- I spy with my little eye something that looks like the beginning of a structure or something. I dont know. Im asking you if you know!?

Skychaser 2005

January 13th, 2007, 03:22 AM

Whats going on at City Square House- I spy with my little eye something that looks like the beginning of a structure or something. I dont know. Im asking you if you know!?

Why Leeds No 1, have you passed the site and seen some activity? I do hope so.

Jonaldo

January 13th, 2007, 10:39 AM

Hmmm... or maybe LeedsNo1 has answered the question of where the lumiere materials hold will be?

Leeds No.1

January 13th, 2007, 12:08 PM

No I meant in that picture theres some structure; or is that the demolished building that was there before? But actually now you remind me, I did walk past the site about a week ago and there was a digger in there. I wouldnt get excited- it didnt seem to be doing anything. I think it could be the site for lumieres materials

SmartCity

January 13th, 2007, 12:15 PM

Whats going on at City Square House- I spy with my little eye something that looks like the beginning of a structure or something. I dont know. Im asking you if you know!?

Couldn't that have been posted in a 'City Square House' thread? This thread has already gone off topic once already. Sort it - or all take my bat and ball home.

:)

Nutella

January 13th, 2007, 10:06 PM

can anyone add to this photo taked last week

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/9259/skyline1nh7.th.jpg (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=skyline1nh7.jpg)

mistertee

January 13th, 2007, 11:09 PM

Couldn't that have been posted in a 'City Square House' thread? This thread has already gone off topic once already. Sort it - or all take my bat and ball home.

Don't be so anal

mark*ie

January 14th, 2007, 08:56 PM

Don't be so anal

So that's where your bat and ball goes :colgate:

Subliving

January 21st, 2007, 12:26 PM

Leeds No.1

January 21st, 2007, 12:53 PM

I think its just one, from what I can remember of the floorplates.

Fred2

January 21st, 2007, 01:27 PM

I think its just one, from what I can remember of the floorplates.

I should think it can only be one. The site itself is small so the footplates will be smaller.

Subliving

January 21st, 2007, 01:54 PM

Fred, do you not remember the construction photos of Beetham Manchester?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Other/beetham-tower-c8652.jpg

The area of the floorplate cannot be that much greater in area than Lumiere, and it has two cores.

Subliving.

Even Flow

January 21st, 2007, 01:59 PM

Thread revival attempt...

Does each tower have two cores or one? Thing I always noticed about Beetham Manchester is that the cores seemed to take up most of the floorplate. Don't want the same to be true of our Lumiere!

Subliving.

Each tower has one core.
Each core is divided into four parts, there are two lifts, a staircase and space for services etc in each.

Fred2

January 21st, 2007, 03:46 PM

SmartCity

January 21st, 2007, 04:30 PM

If you take a look using Google Earth you can see that there's plenty of room.

Subliving

January 21st, 2007, 09:49 PM

My point, Fred, was that the actualy floorplate of the towers is practically the same. I said nothing of the size of the site. However, my question was answered previously, and there will be one core in each tower.

I doubt that the Beetham site is a huge amount bigger than the Lumiere site. And further to this, there is more around the Lumiere site than appears there. Thus the density will suit Lumiere more than Beetham in situe.

Subliving.

Fred2

January 22nd, 2007, 01:04 AM

Subliving

January 22nd, 2007, 02:02 AM

We will see.

:wallbash:

I'll post some site pics at some point from Google Earth.

Subliving.

Stefan88

January 22nd, 2007, 03:28 AM

Walked past the site the other day after the strong winds. The coop store was closed for some reason with fencing round it. The barriers that stop people from entering the Lumiere site had also blown over. There seems to be some activity going on with clean up or something. Looked like they were clearing it out. Whether this is new to anyone i dont no.

Fred2

January 22nd, 2007, 11:15 AM

:wallbash:

I'll post some site pics at some point from Google Earth.

Subliving.

Fine. Look, it has been given approval so the site must be big enough for the planning committee. However, just consider how close the two towers must be to each other. I bet there will be some nice wind tunnels developing round there when they are built. Few people will remember, as I do, that the Merrion Centre when it was built in 1964, for a few years did not have a roof on - and boy did that get howling winds through it! It made shopping there a very dubious pleasure . A few months ago I was sitting ouside the cafe/bar (next to the Co-op) off Welington Street having a coffee in the sun, and thinking about that and how that spot will in future be in constant shade from the building when Lumiere is built - and of course the winds !

Molly

January 22nd, 2007, 11:44 AM

oh be patient with Fred...he still thinks this is being built on it's side! Until they turn the poster the right way up he will be able to grasp their is enough space!

Subliving

January 22nd, 2007, 03:30 PM

oh be patient with Fred...he still thinks this is being built on it's side! Until they turn the poster the right way up he will be able to grasp their is enough space!

Thanks Molly, you've made my day with that. I have the thought of, "Small cow, far away cow" going through my head now...

Fred:

Beetham Tower, Manchester. Plenty of room, smaller than Lumiere site. Could easily have another tower in this non-built-up location.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Other/0005.jpg

Canary Wharf, London. As you can see, slightly larger are here, but we have two 200m+ towers and a smaller one in the middle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Other/0004.jpg

Criterion Place, Leeds. The towers themselves are much closer together than Lumiere, and they are to fit into a smaller space, between the two existing buildings. You haven't complained about the site here yet.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Other/0003.jpg

Bridgewater Place, Leeds. Plently of space on this site for another tower of a much greater height. People have said that it's a big groundscraper with a tower attached. If another tower could fit on this site...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Other/0002-1.jpg

Lumiere, Leeds. Plenty of space, already a dense area, perfect location for a high density development as surrounded by a massive commercial area already.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Other/0001-1.jpg

I really do think that the site is much bigger than you seem to imagine. Sure, it's a high density development. But if it works elsewhere, why not here? Linfoot isn't stupid. He wouldn't have built two towers if he didn't think it would be a financial risk to himself.

Subliving.

mistertee

January 22nd, 2007, 04:50 PM

oh be patient with Fred...he still thinks this is being built on it's side! Until they turn the poster the right way up he will be able to grasp their is enough space!

You just got me into trouble. My boss just said "Do some work and stop laughing at the internet."

Didn't they do some kind of wind test in the USA when this was announced? Wasn't there talk of 500mph winds shooting down the building?

Leeds No.1

January 22nd, 2007, 05:28 PM

Fred2

January 22nd, 2007, 05:34 PM

larven

January 22nd, 2007, 05:41 PM

Lumiere, Leeds. Plenty of space, already a dense area, perfect location for a high density development as surrounded by a massive commercial area already. I really do think that the site is much bigger than you seem to imagine. Sure, it's a high density development. But if it works elsewhere, why not here?

Exactly!

All this talk about the site being too small is absolute nonsense, of course it isn't, the buildings fit on....period! So what if it's dense, so what if Fred2 can't sit at that cafe and have a bit of sunshine on his face because la Lumiere blocks out the light...bollocks.These kind of excuses and justification for the development not going ahead are laughable, this is a major UK city centre, its going to be dense...it's quite right that it SHOULD be dense! This is a first class city centre development and thank god it's going to rise above petty nimbism and negativity to stamp Leeds even more firmly on the map than it is already.

Subliving

January 22nd, 2007, 05:42 PM

Yes I was about to say that; the first reports we heard of Lumiere said that the scheme had gone through over 2 years (i think it was) of tests and development in New York, and specifically mentioned wind tunnels. It has been designed for them not to be a problem. Its already sheltered by other buildings around it. Its shape directs winds around and up if you look at the design.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Leeds/IMG018.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Leeds/IMG017.jpg

I nabbed those from the planning office when I was there.

They did extenswive wind tunnel testing in New York to ensure that it didn't end up with a major downblast of wind. Beetham in Manchester did not have such extensive testing, and as a result, you have the famous whistle now.

I'm not laughing at you, Fred. If you remember I was the first to say you're entitled to your opinion. I was laughing at Molly's comment, which I'm sure you'll agree is amusing. I still think you're entitled to your opinion, however I think it is wrong, and I'm doing my best to show you that it's going to be okay.

Subliving.

Molly

January 22nd, 2007, 06:01 PM

OK, you can all laugh at me, with Molly leading the pack - but we shall see. About winds - I was not thinking about the buildings themselves. Of course, they will be built strongly enough to withstand the most violent hurricanes. I am thinking of wind tunnels that may occur to affect pedestrians near them.
...sorry Fred... twas just a joke... no one's leading any pack..me's just being silly. :)

when it's finished we'll go for a drink one windy night and test it on ourselves and see how it feels... you will come too and if the wind blows you away you can shout back to us 'I told you so!' :cheers:

Fred2

January 22nd, 2007, 07:16 PM

So what if it's dense, so what if Fred2 can't sit at that cafe and have a bit of sunshine on his face because la Lumiere blocks out the light...bollocks.

Bollocks to you too Larven ! :cheers:

Fred2

January 22nd, 2007, 07:18 PM

when it's finished we'll go for a drink one windy night and test it on ourselves and see how it feels... you will come too and if the wind blows you away you can shout back to us 'I told you so!' :cheers:

That's three years at least to wait. Will I be around ? If not I promise I will haunt you with that phrase 'I told you so!' :)

larven

January 22nd, 2007, 08:27 PM

That's three years at least to wait. Will I be around ? If not I promise I will haunt you with that phrase 'I told you so!' :)

Wouldn't it be more agreeable to acept Molly's kind invitation and have a coffee and bagel at Clarence Dock? At least that way you won't be worrying about skyscrapers depriving you of sunlight and nasty downdrafts!

mark*ie

January 22nd, 2007, 10:17 PM

That's three years at least to wait. Will I be around ? If not I promise I will haunt you with that phrase 'I told you so!' :)

How about a sponsored bench in the winter garden ?

Fred2

January 22nd, 2007, 10:26 PM

How about a sponsored bench in the winter garden ?

What winter garden ?

LeedsLad

January 22nd, 2007, 10:40 PM

How about a sponsored bench in the winter garden ?

"Dedicated to Fred2, he loved these towers. Though the floorplate did seem a little too small."

Hey Fred - guess it would need to be an extra short bench given the tiny floorplate?:nuts:

Fred2

January 22nd, 2007, 11:04 PM

"Dedicated to Fred2, he loved these towers. Though the floorplate did seem a little too small."

Hey Fred - guess it would need to be an extra short bench given the tiny floorplate?:nuts:

Indeed ! :lol:

mark*ie

January 22nd, 2007, 11:19 PM

"Dedicated to Fred2, he loved these towers. Though the floorplate did seem a little too small."

Hey Fred - guess it would need to be an extra short bench given the tiny floorplate?:nuts:

:colgate:

mark*ie

January 23rd, 2007, 11:37 AM

What winter garden ?

The winter garden at Lumiere ! :bash:

larven

January 23rd, 2007, 11:59 AM

The winter garden at Lumiere ! :bash:

what...you saying there's enough room after they've squeezed those massive towers in?

Fred2

January 23rd, 2007, 12:34 PM

what...you saying there's enough room after they've squeezed those massive towers in?

There should be just enough for that short bench that LeedsLad proposes to have dedicated to me ! :lol:

Subliving

January 23rd, 2007, 12:44 PM

This thread has turned rather macabre!

I suppose they may not be the tallest towers outsid of London soon, and they're not the tallest residential building in Europe, but could we put them in for the tallest gravestone(glass?) in the world record?

Subliving.

Fred2

January 23rd, 2007, 01:42 PM

Subliving

January 23rd, 2007, 01:47 PM

Surely gravestones ?

So that's why it's Fred2! There's two of you!!! I did wonder.

Subliving.

p.s. Stop me when I go too far.

Fred2

January 23rd, 2007, 07:20 PM

So that's why it's Fred2!

There's two of you!!! I did wonder.

No, only one. That's quite enough - though I fancy many on this forum would think that even one is too much ? :)

Subliving

January 23rd, 2007, 07:35 PM

No, only one. That's quite enough - though I fancy many on this forum would think that even one is too much ? :)

There could never be enough of you, Fred.

Subliving.

Skychaser 2005

January 29th, 2007, 01:10 AM

Latest news from the Scarborough Developments site:

Type: Mixed Use Offices, Hotel, Retail
JV Partner: Uberior Investments plc
Size: 90,000 sq ft
Status: On Site
Value: £120 million

Looks like we are moving forward to the official construction start in a few weeks.

Leeds No.1

January 29th, 2007, 01:12 AM

Good :) I look forward to it!

Rob

January 29th, 2007, 07:16 PM

SimCity4

January 29th, 2007, 07:41 PM

I dont think its this site

Rob

January 29th, 2007, 10:08 PM

No, it's not this one.

Skychaser 2005

January 29th, 2007, 10:15 PM

If you go to their website

www.sdgroup-plc.com

you will see the details show "0n site"

Rob

January 29th, 2007, 10:22 PM

Ah, here's the website http://www.sdgroup-plc.com/west_central.html it is Lumiere, I can only assume it is out of date information (as many websites are) as there is no hotel element in Lumiere.

Scarborough are involved in Lumiere as they developing the offices in tower 2.

mark*ie

January 29th, 2007, 11:23 PM

eddyk

January 30th, 2007, 11:30 AM

100 million less than beetham manc...

Subliving

January 30th, 2007, 11:40 AM

Maybe it's just the value to the developer in terms of projects costs?

Subliving.

eddyk

January 30th, 2007, 11:52 AM

Another thing I noticed...

This isn't on SSP in the diagrams section...

Even Flow

February 5th, 2007, 01:02 AM

It's oh so quiet...........

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4383/1000557hb4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

SimCity4

February 5th, 2007, 07:57 PM

they will probebly start the end of this month or March, digging the hole for the sellers.

Rob

February 5th, 2007, 09:03 PM

sellers? do you mean retailers or cellars (basement level)?

Leeds No.1

February 5th, 2007, 09:14 PM

I thought you mean sellers as in a Marketing Suite...

joeyB_86

February 6th, 2007, 11:23 AM

I've just seen the night time renders of this on on the yoo website. It is looking very pretty indeed. Check it out; http://www.yooarehere.com/

Subliving

February 6th, 2007, 11:33 AM

Wow, they are rather stunning!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Leeds/0007.jpg

Excellent spot, Joe.

Subliving.

onix

February 6th, 2007, 12:19 PM

di Livio

February 6th, 2007, 12:31 PM

I've just seen the night time renders of this on on the yoo website. It is looking very pretty indeed. Check it out; http://www.yooarehere.com/

Gadzooks, they're amazing.
The image gives you a good idea of how it will dominate the surrounding area. Well done, Joey B.

joeyB_86

February 6th, 2007, 06:39 PM

Just regarding the shape of the buildings and the winter garden. Will it be the interesting shape that we see here with the night time render or is it gunna be the straight up buildings and straight across winter garden (as shown on the scarburough development website). I hope it is the former rathen the latter. I think were owed it to make up for the cost cutting of Bridgewater Place.

Joe :)

leeds the best

February 6th, 2007, 07:24 PM

Brilliant!!!!!

jimbo

February 6th, 2007, 08:25 PM

Wow, they are rather stunning!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Leeds/0007.jpg

Excellent spot, Joe.

Subliving.

frick on a stick, I've got the french horn for those renders. Absolutely cracking. If they look like that in the flesh i think I'll cry when I see them completed. The nightime perspective actually accentuates the shape and differentiates the jaunty angles. Can't not be impressed by that.

great find young joe, and welcome to the forum!

jimbo

February 6th, 2007, 08:27 PM

It's oh so quiet...........

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/4383/1000557hb4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

patience my children. the calm before the storm.

this is coming, and its going to put Leeds on the map like never before. Crack open the Wagon Wheels and Horlicks, its party time in the Jimbo household tonight.

Fred2

February 7th, 2007, 12:20 AM

Should overshadow and outshine this lot !

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q281/nosmo2/CIMG1779.jpg

Leeds No.1

February 7th, 2007, 12:37 AM

I personally think that West Central looks quite tall from Wellington Street! In other words; if that looks tall, Lumiere will be enormous!

Subliving

February 7th, 2007, 12:40 AM

I think he was making the point that although it's a massive improvement... it's still fugly!!!

Lumiere will distract, I think, from the orangeness of this building.

Subliving.

larven

February 7th, 2007, 01:20 PM

Lovely renders but surely you'd never be able to see it from this viewpoint as West Central would be in the way! Indeed where West Central is appears to be a nice landscaped urban space...if only.

harryd

February 7th, 2007, 04:05 PM

Funny how those night time renders emphasise the similarity between Simpson's Criterion/Lumiere designs. Those 'funky' angles on the sides of Lumiere do rather replicate the Criterion towers:
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o219/harrydphotos/0007.jpg
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o219/harrydphotos/1004CriterionPlaceresidentialtower_.jpg

This isn't a criticism so much as an observation.

dibbers

February 7th, 2007, 11:12 PM

Glad you like my render guys. I'm delighted to see they've gone public. They're feckin huge, aren't they?

dibbers

February 7th, 2007, 11:20 PM

Lovely renders but surely you'd never be able to see it from this viewpoint as West Central would be in the way! Indeed where West Central is appears to be a nice landscaped urban space...if only.

The reality is, that with inner city buildings of a certain size, you will NEVER see them in their entirety. When you stand near an existing building, your brain takes several 'snap shots' and builds up an overall picture. This overall picture is what you try and portray in marketing images such as this. The enormous height of this particular building forces the viewpoint further back (to avoid looking up at it). West Central has been removed, but you can see its reflection on the two towers! ;-)

van heckler

February 7th, 2007, 11:21 PM

Wow, they look great, they really do. Not sure which I prefer, Lumiere or Criterion. Maybe after seeing these pictures Lumiere.

delores

February 8th, 2007, 03:26 AM

the public areas are an improvement on the previous renders, It looks like this could be quiet an impressive development.

Skychaser 2005

February 8th, 2007, 11:45 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Leeds/0007.jpg

Wow, can't wait for these to start reaching for the skies. There is no doubt, Leeds will get the architectural merit it deserves when these beauties are built.

onix

February 9th, 2007, 01:19 AM

rhinomatt

February 9th, 2007, 01:37 AM

defo.

these are much better than any skyscrpaer planned for brum and manc.

beautifull.

Need I say more? :)

PunkyPaul85

February 9th, 2007, 12:35 PM

This is one of my favorite developments anywere, will be interesting to see if it looks as good in the flesh :)

Prestonian

February 9th, 2007, 01:05 PM

Absolutely amazing! one of the finest looking projects anywhere if you ask me. I hope that winter garden retains the cool shape, its a fab feature.

di Livio

February 9th, 2007, 02:08 PM

This is one of my favorite developments anywere, will be interesting to see if it looks as good in the flesh :)

I hope so, but have my doubts.
As with Criterion, the most popular renderings make it look more slender than it will probably appear in reality.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/lu1.jpg

Gherkin

February 9th, 2007, 02:12 PM

Oops I thought Lumiere and Criterion were the same buildings. They look exactly the same! Will Criterion really be that green? If so that's great! I prefer these though, as they get thinner as they get taller, and am not to keen on the bulges of Criterion place.

dibbers

February 9th, 2007, 03:08 PM

[QUOTE=di Livio;11691367]I hope so, but have my doubts.
As with Criterion, the most popular renderings make it look more slender than it will probably appear in reality.

No true. Most popular renderings are created digitally and are very accurate. But, as with my version of the two towers, the viewpoint may show the width of the building at an acute angle, giving the impression they are thinner.

Val Verde

February 9th, 2007, 03:15 PM

Certainly an excellent render of Lumiere. Is it going to be a purpleish colour now as opposed to the original blue and I thought the taller tower was to be blue with the smaller one being red? Also looking at the renders below it shows the small tower pointing in different directions. What is the correct way that the two towers should be pointing in?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/lu1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Nicholas_Varley/Leeds/0007.jpg

Sure hope the towers will turn out good in the flesh and can't wait for construction to commence.

dibbers

February 9th, 2007, 04:08 PM

Certainly an excellent render of Lumiere. Is it going to be a purpleish colour now as opposed to the original blue and I thought the taller tower was to be blue with the smaller one being red? Also looking at the renders below it shows the small tower pointing in different directions. What is the correct way that the two towers should be pointing in?

There is no 'blue' or 'purple' to either of the towers in reality. That is simply the hue that night time casts on everything. With the daytime views, the blue comes from the sky reflecting in the glass.

T0M

February 9th, 2007, 04:27 PM

A great set of towers guys (these and Criterion) Leeds is certainly going to be put well and truely on the skyscraper map once these guys are up. Not only have you got some great develoments on the go, but you seem to have a very progressive council who understand the importance of iconic tall buildings and is prepared to take the necessary risks to become a real city of reckoning in the North. We certainly envy you that!

These two are in my top 4 new developments outside of London at the moment - the others being Beetham West tower in Liverpool (under construction) and the latest renders of the Arena Central tower in Birmingham... Manchester may have the height, but it aint got the style to match these beauts yet..

Looking forward to seeing these projects materialise..

Subliving

February 9th, 2007, 04:29 PM

There is no 'blue' or 'purple' to either of the towers in reality. That is simply the hue that night time casts on everything. With the daytime views, the blue comes from the sky reflecting in the glass.

I thought part of the marketing blurb was that the shorter tower was a red hue to reflect the older financial district, wheras the taller tower was to be lue to relect the river?

Subliving.

onix

February 9th, 2007, 04:59 PM

jimbo

February 9th, 2007, 05:12 PM

wandered around the site today, all quiet and nobody home, but the first time we see a Carillion blazered vehicle on site, it'll be time for the corks to pop. Had a quick nosy through the railings, and there is a significant basement level beneath of the Royal Mail building, with several sets of steps still in place to descend. I expect the first 6 months will be digging these out and excavating further for the underground carpark. Won't see anything above ground till next Xmas I reckon.

There are signs on the hoardings stating that the last few apartments can be bought off plan direct from KW Linfoot. I wouldn't surprise me that despite the perceived saturation of the Leeds apartment market, these all sell off plan before a sod of earth is turned.

It is truely the landmark scheme we've been hoping for. On another note, the Co-op store and the 'Breeze' cafe bar both looked busy at 1000 this morning and have got a good mix of the essentials, including the increasingly popular Duvel continental beer which seems to be served everywhere in Leeds at the moment. The landscaped bit outside West Central was rather pleasant as well. Good to see these facilities in place.

Subliving

February 9th, 2007, 05:29 PM

Dibbers said that was just a reflection of West Point though...

Subliving.

Dan B

February 9th, 2007, 08:36 PM

Dibbers said that was just a reflection of West Point though...

Subliving.]

Somehow I don't think so:

Construction due to start April 2007

54 and 32 storey MONSTER

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/SMARTCITY/gothicform.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d172/SMARTCITY/DiLivio2.jpg

I think you can quite clearly see these buildings are clad in multi-faceted pains of glass. The larger tower is in a range from almost white hued to a gray colour and to black. The smaller tower has a sort of tartan effect with the reddish hue in a patchwork.

I find this a completely pointless exercise, the renders displaying simply reflective glass all over worked much better as a display of architecture and buildings as sculpture.

dibbers

February 9th, 2007, 09:37 PM

Dibbers said that was just a reflection of West Point though...

Subliving.

No I didn't. I said West point was reflected in the glass of Lumiere. I didn't mean the red colours on the smaller tower was the reflection.

dibbers

February 9th, 2007, 09:40 PM

Somehow I don't think so:

I think you can quite clearly see these buildings are clad in multi-faceted pains of glass. The larger tower is in a range from almost white hued to a gray colour and to black. The smaller tower has a sort of tartan effect with the reddish hue in a patchwork.
.

The taller tower has cladding ranging from off white to mid grey in gradients and patterns.

The smaller tower the same, except it also has areas of red/brown look-a-like panels in gradients and patterns.

mark*ie

February 10th, 2007, 12:25 AM

I prefer these though, as they get thinner as they get taller, and am not to keen on the bulges of Criterion place.

But you love the big fat bulges "on either side!" of a even taller massive gerkin ? .

Subliving

February 10th, 2007, 01:14 AM

No I didn't. I said West point was reflected in the glass of Lumiere. I didn't mean the red colours on the smaller tower was the reflection.

My mistake! Sorry!:bash:

Subliving.

jimbo

February 10th, 2007, 12:44 PM

I think most people can see that instead of being slight, tapering and 'needle-like' towers, Lumiere is in-fact rather slab like in appearance. This isn't a big issue (no different from say Beetham Manchester), and I like the fact that the perspective and shape will change from whichever angle viewed. The taller tower actually seems to act like a wall along Aire Street, but enough kerfuffling.

The cladding used on Beetham Towers (Brum, Manc and Liverpool) has come in for quite a lot of slating recently. Its 2 years away, but lets hope that the cladding on Lumiere doesn't replicate that.

Another point, Markie mentioned the Gherkin, and Lumiere's tallest tower is only 8m shorter. I blows my mind that the smaller tower is the height of BWP which towers over Leeds and appears in view from so many different locations.

Rob

February 10th, 2007, 12:45 PM

These two are in my top 4 new developments outside of London at the moment - the others being Beetham West tower in Liverpool (under construction) and the latest renders of the Arena Central tower in Birmingham... Manchester may have the height, but it aint got the style to match these beauts yet..

Looking forward to seeing these projects materialise..

I had a good look at the Beetham Tower West last week, it really is looking very good now the cladding is going up quite substantially. The two Beethams really compliment each other well.

They have a clever little rail system 2/3rds of the way up the tower wrapping right around it following the building profile, with a little rail mounted winch; they lift each panel up from the lorry offloading point then run it right around the building until it reaches the right place then guys waiting on the right floor just pull it in towards them and fix in place. It took about 15-20 minutes to get a panel in place from offloading. A very nifty way of cladding the whole building easily. Is Carillion building Beetham West?

chansau

February 16th, 2007, 03:45 PM

Carillion are doing Beetham West Tower - I believe they are very much in the front running for Lumiere too which is great as they are by far the best Contractors on these types of projects....

Rob

February 16th, 2007, 07:21 PM

Carillion are already on board for Lumiere, as are services specialists WSP Engineering. The same Carillion and WSP design teams transferred straight from Beetham Manchester to Lumiere, as in the same people, so they already work together well as a team with Ian Simpsons, and have been through it all before. WSP have been on the project for a year and a half to two years by now.

Ozzy

February 22nd, 2007, 11:32 PM

I can't wait for these towers to get built they look world beating quality in the renders!

Molly

February 23rd, 2007, 12:32 PM

I can't wait for these towers to get built they look world beating quality in the renders!

yep it's getting to that horrible old drag time feeling....

yayight

February 23rd, 2007, 01:29 PM

Is there any further movement at the site?

Skychaser 2005

February 23rd, 2007, 05:00 PM

Is there any further movement at the site?

Nope, nothing happening today.

Countdown is around 4 to 6 weeks to hit the announced start date of April.

1878EFC

February 23rd, 2007, 07:02 PM

brilliant this development

whats the status lads proposed, u/c or approved.

residential/office?

Orgoglioso

February 23rd, 2007, 07:03 PM

brilliant this development

whats the status lads proposed, u/c or approved.

residential/office?

Supposed construction starts in april, and i think its all residential, designed for the over 5o's especially.

1878EFC

February 23rd, 2007, 07:05 PM

cheers, will look special this one i'm jealous

Rob

February 23rd, 2007, 07:16 PM

We are waiting for the agreement of the detailed stage of the contract between the developers and Carrilion, WSP et-al. This was due to complete late March-April, presumably to coincide with completion of the relevant stage of the design. Once the contracts are signed, work should be able to start fairly soon after that. However this is the tricky part, and completing the contract negotiations on time to budget would be quite an acheivment.

Leeds rules

March 1st, 2007, 05:09 PM

Skychaser 2005

March 1st, 2007, 09:20 PM

Anyone know what the portable crane was doing down out side this site on Tuesday night. Wellington street was closed at about 23:00hrs from the city square end. So we had to be diverted by the city loop.

Sounds interesting. As we rapidly come up to "L" day,(Lumiere launch construction day) any activity on site is going to get us excited.

Fred2

March 1st, 2007, 09:46 PM

Sounds interesting. As we rapidly come up to "L" day,(Lumiere launch construction day) any activity on site is going to get us excited.

I shouldn't get too excited. There will be 20 weeks, from start, of foundation and preparation work before anything starts going up. Until then it won't even be as exciting as watching paint dry. :)

Leeds_John

March 1st, 2007, 10:41 PM

But at least we will know it has actually started, unlike a lot of schemes in Leeds!!

Fred2

March 1st, 2007, 10:48 PM

But at least we will know it has actually started, unlike a lot of schemes in Leeds!!

Point taken !

Mark1511

March 1st, 2007, 11:18 PM

Fred2

March 1st, 2007, 11:25 PM

When I walked past at about 2pm, there was a lorry and a large skip that was full of some of the rubble that has been left on the site. So it looks like the clean up process has begun, which is a good sign.

On the website you list on your piece, the metropolitan population of Leeds is mentioned but I would like to know exactly what is meant by that term. If it means the population of West Yorkshire and includes Bradford, Wakefield, Huddersfield et al, I am sure a lot of people would disagree.

onix

March 1st, 2007, 11:39 PM

mark*ie

March 2nd, 2007, 02:44 PM

Not many photo's posted of late... so here's some photos I took yesterday... of course not much happening at the moment.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l165/markie_h/leedspics008.jpg

Here's one at the side of West Point and convenience store.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l165/markie_h/leedspics009.jpg

joeyB_86

March 2nd, 2007, 03:35 PM

On the website you list on your piece, the metropolitan population of Leeds is mentioned but I would like to know exactly what is meant by that term. If it means the population of West Yorkshire and includes Bradford, Wakefield, Huddersfield et al, I am sure a lot of people would disagree.

I cant remember which website I saw it on but West Yorkshire has apparently 4 of the top 15 metropolitan populations in England: Leeds, Kirklees, Bradford and Wakefield. If you lumped them all together, it would be a fair size. I'll try find the website.

joeyB_86

March 2nd, 2007, 04:08 PM

mark*ie

March 2nd, 2007, 04:09 PM

When I walked past at about 2pm, there was a lorry and a large skip that was full of some of the rubble that has been left on the site. So it looks like the clean up process has begun, which is a good sign.
That's great news was there with smartcity yesterday about the same time, but as you can see from my pics nothing happening yesterday.

mark*ie

March 2nd, 2007, 04:59 PM

Has this changed?

Status: Planning achieved. Anticipated on site mid 2007. Completion 2011.

from

http://www.sdgroup-plc.com/west_central.html

I thought it reported as on site and completion due for 2010 before. If so, then very disapointing indeed!

Was quoted by Linfoot rep, April 2007 start Finish 2011 So timescale the same, but mid 2007 dosn't relate to April but June ?

JOliver

March 2nd, 2007, 07:01 PM

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l165/markie_h/leedspics009.jpg

What a beautiful building (the one on a backgrownd). One of my favourite in Leeds. Or anywhere.

mark*ie

March 4th, 2007, 09:25 PM

Just out of interest I was wondering if anyone knows what depth the foundations will be for Lumiere ?

di Livio

March 9th, 2007, 09:09 PM

http://www.iansimpsonarchitects.com/site/main.htm

A full height version of the night photo is now on Ian Simpson's website.

http://www.iansimpsonarchitects.com/site/main.htm

thejackal44

March 10th, 2007, 09:47 PM

I have been reading through the thread, have many/any of you bought an apartment out of interest?

mark*ie

March 10th, 2007, 09:58 PM

I have been reading through the thread, have many/any of you bought an apartment out of interest?

I've been reading through the Threads too !,skyscrapers and Leeds, as a city and new constuction and transport are an interest of mine... Yes go on don't tell me you've put a initial deposit on a Lumiere apartment !

dom

March 10th, 2007, 10:13 PM

How much are they going for?

thejackal44

March 11th, 2007, 12:33 PM

Yes i have reserved one. They have been going fast.
They range from £117k for a smart pad, 170k for a one bed and 250k for a two bed. Payment structure is great - you can pay 2.5% now and nothing more till built so you can hopefully obtain good capital growth for 4 years before completion.

mark*ie

March 12th, 2007, 03:56 AM

JC1717

March 12th, 2007, 02:41 PM

Hi all, i have finally picked up enough courage to join this forum after reading all your posts on a regular basis for about 2 years!! For a start i would like to say how much i like this development and how i think it will help raise the cities profile on a national but more importantly international basis. To re-enforce our status as a major financial city it is important to have such high rise developments to show the wealth of the city and attract people ond companies to us. Looking at all the major players in europe and beyond, a decent sky-line sets out a major city from the pretenders.

mark*ie

March 12th, 2007, 02:50 PM

Skychaser 2005

March 12th, 2007, 10:25 PM

mark*ie

March 12th, 2007, 10:48 PM

Tonights YEP:

Buyers snap up "tallest tower" flats

Buyers reaching the sky have snapped up 70% of homes in a shimmering glass tower in what will be western Europe's tallest residential building.

Developer KW Linfoot has announced record sales for apartments in the iconic Lumiere, Wellington Street, Leeds, ahead of construction which is due to start in a couple of months.

The firm says that 70% of the 608 luxury smart pads and 1 and 2 bed flats in the 117m high Tower 1 have been sold since going to market 5 months ago.

Has the YEP got the height of Tower 1 wrong, should it be 171m and not 117m, or is this the shorter tower?

There is also confirmation of the launch in 2 months, so will be on site, April/May. Great news, and fantastic news on sales which will secure the construction start.

Yes they have got the hight wrong, all the sales are for tower 1 at 171m.

classy lady

March 13th, 2007, 01:27 AM

Tonights YEP:

Buyers snap up "tallest tower" flats

Buyers reaching the sky have snapped up 70% of homes in a shimmering glass tower in what will be western Europe's tallest residential building.

Developer KW Linfoot has announced record sales for apartments in the iconic Lumiere, Wellington Street, Leeds, ahead of construction which is due to start in a couple of months.

The firm says that 70% of the 608 luxury smart pads and 1 and 2 bed flats in the 117m high Tower 1 have been sold since going to market 5 months ago.

Has the YEP got the height of Tower 1 wrong, should it be 171m and not 117m, or is this the shorter tower?

There is also confirmation of the launch in 2 months, so will be on site, April/May. Great news, and fantastic news on sales which will secure the construction start.

Saw your reply to Eastgate thread re Carillion getting togther a large team to move over to Leeds for the start of Lumiere in April; I thought from some of the other posters that its the same team that did Beetham Tower in Manchester? If thats the case won't they have had weeks and weeks to get them together seeing as most of the Design Managers etc will have moved off Beetham about November time?

Nutella

March 13th, 2007, 11:49 AM

Heard at the weekend that its now July the planed start for groundwork’s, but even that is optimistic as the fit out costs are still been ironed out.
:bash:

Rob

March 13th, 2007, 10:10 PM

Where did you hear that from Nutella?

It doesn't surprise me, as I've commented a few times, the contract negotiaition was always the last but the biggest hurdle to overcome. I'd hoped that as it's so similar to Beetham it would run more smoothly.

Still, July is ok, I just hope it doesn't start slipping beyond that point.

Nutella

March 14th, 2007, 12:23 AM

I know a lady thats doing admin on the project

joeyB_86

March 14th, 2007, 02:03 PM

And, as already said, the Scarbrough group changed from "onsite" to starting mid 2007 so this looks to be true! Boooo!

larven

March 14th, 2007, 03:07 PM

It doesn't surprise me, as I've commented a few times, the contract negotiaition was always the last but the biggest hurdle to overcome. I'd hoped that as it's so similar to Beetham it would run more smoothly.

Or could we interpret this as value engineering......like what happened with the endless delays on BWP and why that particular development has failed to deliver the higher level of design that it originally promised? I'm not confident that KWLinfoot can deliver this building with the quality and haste that Beetham have shown with their numerous tower developments. It may seem similar to Beetham Manc in the sense that the same architect and contractor are on board but the crucial thing to remember is.....different client.

mark*ie

March 14th, 2007, 03:10 PM

Or could we interpret this as value engineering......like what happened with the endless delays on BWP and why that particular development has failed to deliver the higher level of design that it originally promised? I'm not confident that KWLinfoot can deliver this building with the quality and haste that Beetham have shown with their numerous tower developments. It may seem similar to Beetham Manc in the sense that the same architect and contractor are on board but the crucial thing to remember is.....different client.

Apart from the interiors I don't think Linfoot has much say in it.

Brum X

March 14th, 2007, 07:20 PM

Even V Tower in Birmingham could be starting before this and Eastgate, Lol

jimbo

March 14th, 2007, 11:18 PM

Heard at the weekend that its now July the planed start for groundwork’s, but even that is optimistic as the fit out costs are still been ironed out.
:bash:

ah, well, a couple of months doesn't concern me much. Its important to note that this is a huge scheme for a developer like KW Linfoot (surely their biggest scheme todate has been the Whitehall Quays development where they have their offices in the penthouse), but if they have sold as many units as they say they have, and are in negotiations with a contractor as reliable as Carillion, then that's still positive news.

jimbo

March 14th, 2007, 11:21 PM

Even V Tower in Birmingham could be starting before this and Eastgate, Lol

that may be true, but having see the V Tower as the main local news story on the BBC from my hotel suite in Brum last night, I certainly know which tower (or twin towers) I'd rather have! :)

hope it works out for you though. Bit of a come down from the original Arena Central proposal though.

Brum X

March 15th, 2007, 09:56 AM

Do you think so, i think it is fantastic. Something a little different. Dont forget these are early renders of the design and to be honest their are loads of statistics flying around about this one at the moment. Even the renders are not showing 50 floors, i think one of them is showing 7 less floors than 50. And then if you go onto skyscraper news it is saying its going to be 51 floors and possibly 170M:nuts: I think the design is so funky, just like your Lumiere

JC1717

March 15th, 2007, 12:47 PM

did linfoot not do BWP?

mark*ie

March 15th, 2007, 02:23 PM

did linfoot not do BWP?
Yes he is doing BWP.

JC1717

March 15th, 2007, 04:25 PM

then surely BWP is his biggest development to date not Whitehall Quays?

Will both towers be constructed simultaneously on this development does anyone know?

Subliving

March 15th, 2007, 11:14 PM

I think someone said that they are being built simultaniously.

Subliving.

jimbo

March 16th, 2007, 12:36 AM

then surely BWP is his biggest development to date not Whitehall Quays?

Will both towers be constructed simultaneously on this development does anyone know?

not quite there sport. The development of BWP was by Landmark St James (or someone similarly named). Linfoot parachuted himself into the apartment element several years down the line, actually well after construction had started.

On that basis, Whitehall Quays was probably his biggest single development to date. Linfoot has no influence or interest in the massive commercial element of BWP.

chameleontel

March 16th, 2007, 01:40 AM

If this turns out anything like the renders, Leeds will really have something to shout about. Nice one!:cheers1:

joeyB_86

March 16th, 2007, 06:29 AM

If this turns out anything like the renders, Leeds will really have something to shout about. Nice one!:cheers1:

Why thank you kind sir.

Fred2

March 16th, 2007, 11:33 AM

If this turns out anything like the renders, Leeds will really have something to shout about. Nice one!:cheers1:

If all goes well, we will be able to shout about it in about four years time.

JC1717

March 16th, 2007, 12:52 PM

ahh thanks Jimbo for clearing that up:)

mark*ie

March 17th, 2007, 05:16 AM

not quite there sport. The development of BWP was by Landmark St James (or someone similarly named). Linfoot parachuted himself into the apartment element several years down the line, actually well after construction had started.

On that basis, Whitehall Quays was probably his biggest single development to date. Linfoot has no influence or interest in the massive commercial element of BWP.

I think Linfoot has been on a bloody long parachute jump !, although I don't feel sorry for him, but you have to take your hat off ...read this !

Tycoon transforms a £4m des res

It's the most expensive home to be put on sale in York. Developer Kevin Linfoot talks about his £4m property to Sharon Dale.
He is one of Yorkshire's most successful developers, whose passion for bricks and mortar has made him a multi-millionaire.
So it is hardly surprising that collecting homes is one of Kevin Linfoot's hobbies. He has properties in London, Spain, Leeds, the North York Moors and York.
"I've always been a bit nomadic," he reveals. "I've never liked spending too much time in one place."
His latest acquisition is a country estate in Yorkshire which has prompted the sale of his grade II listed Arts and Crafts-style house in York.
Bishopthorpe Garth has served as his primary home for the past 15 years and is now on the open market for the first time since it was built by celebrated architect Walter Brierley in 1908. The property, which is set in 25 acres, is being offered as a mini estate. The main house has four reception rooms, five bedrooms, a home cinema and a self-contained studio apartment. It also has two cottages, a gatehouse and an enormous barn-style garage, which could be turned into another house (planning permitting).
The whole lot is for sale at offers in excess of £4m and is thought to be the most expensive private home ever up for sale in the historic city.
Estate agent Tim Blenkin from Blenkin and Co, says: "It's unusual to find something like this so close to York, and it has been modernised with no expense spared. The attention to detail is incredible."
The house is a symbol of Kevin Linfoot's property prowess. He began buying and modernising terrace houses in York in the 1980s, before building new homes on greenfield sites. He drove the city apartment boom in York, before turning his attention to Leeds, where he helped pioneer city living with his company KW Linfoot.
He managed this despite severe dyslexia, which means he is semi-literate. He writes phonetically and with difficulty, and can barely read. "It's all in my head," says Kevin, 49. "My memory is incredible and that's what I rely on, and I write phonetic, prompt notes. I can't read, but I'm very aware of what's happening. I have the news on all the time." He grew up in Hessay, near York, on a pig farm, where his father also ran a coal business. Having failed at school, his dad made him learn a trade – joinery. It was that, coupled with a road accident, that allowed him to start empire building.
He says: "I had a motorbike accident when I was 17 and that gave me £1,800. I bought a half share in a joinery business making window frames. I sold my share 12 months later for £20,000 and started buying run-down terrace houses to renovate."
His most recent schemes in Leeds include the skyscraper Bridgewater Place and the soon-to-be-built Lumière, which will be the tallest residential building in Europe. He has a reputation as a key innovator; he was the first to introduce Smart Pads – tiny, affordable studio flats – and is putting Prime Pads, aimed at the over-55s, into Lumière.
He is planning a third Leeds skyscraper, an apartment scheme on the BBC media centre site in Salford, and he is about to submit plans for an urban village development in Leeds city centre aimed at key workers. The work involves a collaboration with John Hitchcox, Jade Jagger and Sophie Conran, while Philippe Starck's development company Yoo enables him to indulge his love of design.
"It's something I'm quite good at," he says. "That was part of the attraction of this house. It was in a pretty bad state when I bought it and it needed everything doing. I put central heating in and cut down the number of bedrooms from 10 to five and put more bathrooms in."
The renovation of the house and the Gertrude Jekyll-designed garden has cost £1.25m. He bought it from the receiver after the building firm based there went out of business. "I got a good deal but I saw it as a business opportunity at first. I didn't really know what to do with it. But I was divorced and was fed up of living in the flat I had in York. I thought it might be nice to live in a house again. That's when I looked at developing Bishopthorpe Garth for myself. It's been a great place to live and it's very convenient for the A64, the ring road and the train to London."
The house was built for a mine owner, as a weekend retreat from the black stuff, and after changing hands privately, it was later used as offices. "Some of the features had gone, but the panelling and the floors were intact, though I had to restore them."
The décor is largely classic and a direct contrast to his Leeds apartment and his offices in the city which are decorated in contemporary style. "You can't decorate an Arts and Crafts house in modern style. It just wouldn't look right."
The kitchen/dining area was originally five small rooms and he designed the kitchen, which was handbuilt for him. Much of the furniture is from family, though the fabulous grand piano in the hall was bought for an ex-girlfriend, a concert pianist. It now acts as a space filler. The wine storage in the cellar came from the ill-fated Leeds restaurant Teatro (Kevin owned the freehold of the building).
One of his favourite rooms is the library, which appears to be a symbol of hope. Rather than fill it with pretentious leather bound tomes and worthy hardbacks, it is full of all the books he would like to read if he ever finds a way of conquering his disability.
His favourites include a series of books about the American steel magnate and philanthropist Andrew Carnegie and In Search of Excellence, a book about America's best run companies, by Tom Peters.
"It's seems daft, but I buy books I think I'd like to read," he says.
He has tried everything and spent a small fortune in the quest to cure his word blindness, but the prognosis remains bleak. "It's something wrong in the brain, but as I've got older, it has got slightly better. I can read a bit, but I get so far and that's it," he says.
His book collection is rivalled only by his art collection. He has the largest collection of Soviet social realist art outside Russia. It is now in storage ready for the move, which was prompted by the birth of his son, William, 16 months. "I want William brought up in the countryside. I was brought up on a farm and I want that kind of environment for him," says Kevin, who will be calling the shots when it comes to decorating the new home.
"He definitely wins. I know what I like and he knows what he likes, and he does what he wants anyway," says his partner, Francesca, who clearly has the measure of her man.
His most recent project was the garden. He managed to retrieve the original Jekyll designs from the council archives and has stayed true to her style. It has been a costly restoration. Yew topiary baubles, costing £3,000 each, were brought from Italy and a long, narrow pond, of the type she favoured, was installed.
What she would think of the enormous statues at the end of the pond – two lions guarding a Buddha, and the two enormous lions at the back of the house – is debatable. "I saw them at an exhibition in China. I had them and some other stuff shipped over," says Kevin.
The lions at the back of the house have a combined weight of 52 tonnes and are worth £100,000. If the new owners of Bishopthorpe Garth don't want them, he'll crane them out and take them with him to the country along with some regret.
He says: "I'm sad to be leaving all this behind, especially as it's been 15 years in the making, but I'm leaving for a new way of life."