Alright, only a week left and still nothing on the table from Bass Pro...simple question is, will they be moving downtown to the current location at the "aud"

???

don't think so anymore, but hopefully they surprise me

i'd bet against it....maybe 20% chance it still happens. It would still be nice tho to have them as a large people generator 365 days a year in the 'canalside' district (in conjunction with the museum and transport hub people traffic). I don't think it'd be the worst thing to ever happen to Buffalo if Bass Pro decided they didn't want to open a waterfront store, but i'd still like to see it.

Regardless of their decision, it will be nice to finally get some closure on this issue.

No.. this area will probably end up with a suburban location down the road like Cyburbia suggests.

I have a feeling January 16th will come and go without so much as a peep from them.

though I would like to see a waterfront Bass Pro, a first of its kind so to say...if it is decided they don't want the store...it will probably end up in Cheektowaga.

I'm pulling for it to still come downtown, I just don't think the 30million is the issue, it they really wanted that kinda kicker they would have the store open by now.

I still think its more as issue with the canal club. :ohno:

Buffalo seems to have a "rectal-Cranial inversion" about a lot of things. I voted no to buffalo getting it becuse they always talk about getting things that never happen. If it does happen its probably nothing that good. I think they are going to Dick around with bass pro so long they won't want to.

Nothing's been happening with that deal, so I would have to say no, unfortunately.

4 to 1 odds, hell we should make a money bet on this issue. lol

Bass Pro should locate in Batavia for easy access to Buffalo and Rochester markets.

as if we don't already have enough hick ass rednecks here...NO WAY man

Auburn has one, I would say Buffalo would be great...atleast in the immediate area...but not Batavia.

now that I say that, watch what will happen.

I don't care if they don't come. I was never so into them anyway. That area will get developed and there will be other stores and the absence of Bass Pro will be no big deal. There will be some other big store there some day. They should rip down the Aud and put up a Fanueil Hall style marketplace down there with many little stores and delis and restaurants.

No and I could care less if it does or not. I was just at one in South Florida and it looked like a Dicks with a giant fish tank...nothing more. The media(especially Channel 2) has over hyped this store way too much. They should be talking about a positive such as the dozens of small businesses that opened in the city this past year.

I don't care if they don't come. I was never so into them anyway. That area will get developed and there will be other stores and the absence of Bass Pro will be no big deal. There will be some other big store there some day. They should rip down the Aud and put up a Fanueil Hall style marketplace down there with many little stores and delis and restaurants.

That's my thoughts exactly, with all these people moving downtown there should be some shopping destination/ entertainment. Something that they can do. Sure Bass Pro might bring in tourists, but what about the core of the people that are there 24/7?

Agreed, with all the people moving downtown, things will just naturally happen in terms of retail and the other development. I think it will start at a smaller more basic and essential level and then we'll see the other stuff move in. People moving into these lofts and apartments are people that have money. Older people with disposable incomes and young people starting to make the bigger $$. You can't ignore that.

I don't care if they don't come. I was never so into them anyway. That area will get developed and there will be other stores and the absence of Bass Pro will be no big deal. There will be some other big store there some day. They should rip down the Aud and put up a Fanueil Hall style marketplace down there with many little stores and delis and restaurants.

I'm affraid that it won't..or if it will, it'll be a long long time. The "canal side" development is far far far away from being a done deal. Tho, I must say I love your optimism...despite all the plans I can't see anything other than Bass Pro being built in the near future.

Nope & its all for the better it won't be builit in Buffalo.

But Batavia might make a good location.

Hartford's getting a Cabela's in Fall 2007...

I hope Bass Pro goes to downtown Buffalo!

any of them would be cool to have really, I wonder if a Bass Pro at the McKinley Mall would be a good idea...would kinda bring that mall back on par.

What would have put the McKinley Mall on par would have been if planning-devoid Hamburg hadn't axed the second floor in the construction stage. Maybe not a cure-all, but it probably would've pre-empted the Galleria's dominance to a certain degree.

BTW I hate what that mall has done to their food court. Yes, the old was verrrrry '80s, but the current one looks like it belongs in Tucson and it's lost.

Maybe a Bass Pro would actually prompt them to install sidewalks in that area, though!!!

The McKinley is much better now that they have the Macys and the Best Buy. I was pretty astounded by the Galleria when I was there at Christmas. I still hate malls.

Interesting, as the deadline for the Bass Pro nears, this article reveals how some early dealmaking among a pair of well connected fishing buddies led to the proposal.

Buffalo News

November 30, 2004 Tuesday

A NUDGE FROM A FRIEND SET WHEELS IN MOTION FOR COMPANY LEADER

By Sharon Linstedt - NEWS STAFF REPORTER


The trophy catch wasn't landed until Monday, but the bait to land a Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World for Buffalo was first cast years ago in a series of conversations between two fishing buddies.

Johnny Morris, founder and chairman of Bass Pro Shops, has heard an ocean of upbeat words about Buffalo and its charms from his Florida neighbor and fellow fishing enthusiast, Bob Rich Jr., president of Buffalo-based Rich Products.

"He got me up here for a visit," Morris recalled. "And I was really impressed with the beauty of the area and Lake Erie."

Rich's late-1990s hometown tour also included downtown Buffalo and a drive past the dormant Memorial Auditorium.

"Johnny spotted the building and asked me what it was. It sparked his imagination. You could almost hear the wheels turning in his head," Rich recalled about Morris' first look at the neglected building now poised to become the third-largest store in the Bass Pro chain.

At that time, the Missouri retailer had less than a dozen stores and hadn't yet drawn a bead on the Northeastern United States, but, according to Rich, Morris made a mental note about the Aud for future use.

"That's Johnny. He can see the beauty and artistry in something that other people don't even notice," Rich said. "That's why his stores are so innovative and no two are the same."

A few years later, when Morris got his first look at the interior of the cavernous sports arena, the Bass Pro chief was not disappointed with what he saw.

"I remember when I walked in there with the mayor I could almost hear the crowds screaming and feel the history of the place," Morris said.

"As a retailer, I could imagine the grand space, with its 100-foot ceilings, as an incredible store with one of the Great Lakes right at its front door to test boats and do fishing tours. Man, it was just awesome."

Passionate about bass fishing from his youth, Morris never set out to captain what has grown to be the fifth-largest seller of sporting goods in the United States. In fact, Morris would have been thrilled to spend his days on the professional bass tournament circuit, which he first joined in 1970.

According to Rich, who included a chapter on Morris in his 2001 book "Fish Fights," it was a lecture from his father about finding a real career that gave Morris the idea of selling fishing gear. With a $10,000 loan from his dad, he bought a U-Haul's worth of lures to sell at the family's liquor store, and a retail legend was born.

As Bass Pro continued to add stores, Rich continued to pepper his conversations with Morris about the virtues of Buffalo. In 2001, he flew Mayor Anthony M. Masiello to the company's flagship store in Springfield, Mo., to spark his interest in Bass Pro, a trip that wowed the mayor and kicked off Masiello's public quest to reel in the sporting goods giant.

Despite his continued interest in the Aud and the growing possibility of public dollars to upgrade access and infrastructure to the urban waterfront site, Morris still wasn't willing to make the leap. But federal, state and local leaders refused to give up on having the Bass Pro founder fulfill his dream.

Trips to Buffalo in 2003 and 2004 finally took the project off the back burner, and lengthy negotiations with economic development officials convinced Morris that the affinity he felt in his heart for the Buffalo site also made business sense.

"A lot of retailers would shy away from all this," Morris conceded. "It will take a lot of time and energy, but when its done, it could top everything else we've done."

Early Monday morning, before the news conference officially announcing the store and related projects, Morris went out for a run through downtown Buffalo and made a point of taking a lap around the Aud.

"I just wanted to go by there for some inspiration, and I fell for it all over again," Morris said.

Steel is getting very good BP vibes.

I know I'm stickin' with it.

No changing my vote here either....Any "no's" willing to come over to the postive side and maybe save some face? :hi:

I'm sticking with what the magic 8 ball has said all along: Yes, indeed it is true. :)

Steel thinks we will hear something real soon

Cyburbia thinks we'll also hear an answer soon.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/6192/no4eq2.jpg

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/3193/brpojn2.jpg

5 days, 2 hours, 4 minutes, and 10 seconds until 00:00 on 1/17 and we can continue on with our collective lives.

Yes will be the answer but it will be a very interesting yes

A hovering store?

we should have another ball drop at the Electric Tower.

Yes will be the answer but it will be a very interesting yes
Tease! Why do all the out of town members always have the announcements ahead of time? Is there a news blackout in WNY or something? Did TimeWarner cancel the Development Channel on us? I want my Dev-TV !!!!1

:) :D

Ditch Time Warner. You won't regret it.

I hope they cut off Fox not because of the subscribers, rather I want to see them run out of town and perhaps have their franchise rights put in jeopardy. I didn't like Comcast and their 10% annual rate hikes, but at least they provided consistent content and never do I recall them jerking around channel lineups AT ALL.

Yes will be the answer but it will be a very interesting yes

a 40 story Bass Pro tower?

oh well, I guess we'll just have to wait till tommorrow and see

Yes will be the answer but it will be a very interesting yes
I think I found it. Steel was right. It is a very interesting Yes...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je9maeIgeaI

Bass Pro should buy the Aquarama, that ship out on the waterfront and build a store in it...then drive the ship from Buffalo, Erie, Cleveland, Toledo and even Detroit...cost cutting measure and it would satisfy like 5 markets. :)

^^ That's the best idea I've heard yet.

And then you can actually fish while you're at the store!

OK- Anyone want to set up a new poll, and try this again considering they are now considering other sites besides the Aud for a new-build store?

^ I'd say it maybe increases their odds of opening a store here by about 5%. They still haven't signed a deal yet, so its still basically up in the air.

I didn't like Comcast and their 10% annual rate hikes, but at least they provided consistent content and never do I recall them jerking around channel lineups AT ALL.

They can jerk with the Pirate Nun all they want. The Hail Mary Full of Grace The Lord is With Thee Network is usually up on something like channel 432 on most cable systems, but in Buffalo, it's right on Channel 10. If there was a channel featuring nothing but fires, it would probably be on Channel 12.

Are you dissing the Yule Log channel?!?

If there was a channel featuring nothing but fires, it would probably be on Channel 12.
Nah uh. It's Channel 7. :D At least at 12, 5, 6, and 11.

Funny that you mention the "Pirate Nun" in the Bass Pro thread, though. Maybe Bass Pro can utilize this as part of a nautical theme? Maybe that's where the hang-up has come from, it's signing her to a contract...

So Bass Pro is considering "other" locations in Buffalo. So you mean to say, in the scope of a month (assuming, of course, that they didn't get serious until the deadline passed), that they're going to crunch all the numbers pertinent to getting a formal agreement by the 16th? At the same velocity at which they've negotiated the Aud deal?

Unless this has been something that's been around a while, I'm sorry, I don't see it.

"Poll of the Day" on WBEN.com:

"Regardless of what happens with Bass Pro, do you think the Aud should be torn down?"
Yes: 58%
No: 12%
Don't Care: 31%

255 votes

I'm going to buy the Aud and turn it into a huge roller disco a la Xanadu.

I'll go, roller disco would rock man.

play the Bee Gee's alot.

yes

yes

Educated guess or just a guess? :cheers:

Are you dissing the Yule Log channel?!?
Clarkson has (had) a channel which consisted of community news and ads and stuff against a background consisting of a fish tank. Granted, that was the sole purpose of the station when there wasn't a hockey game or a Student Senate meeting or something.

Oh, and Concord (aka Boston) had two religious channels in the top 20. EWTN and something else I can't remember. Obviously my channel lineup has long since bitten the dust.

"Poll of the Day" on WBEN.com:

"Regardless of what happens with Bass Pro, do you think the Aud should be torn down?"
Yes: 58%
No: 12%
Don't Care: 31%

255 votes
Currently...
Yes: 73%
No: 11%
Don't Care: 16%

2193 votes. Seems like the "yeses" are winning over the "don't care" crowd.

they should turn the Aud into a sweet ass concert hall...I mean the name "Aud" is already infamous in music touring...so instead of using it with Hockey, Lacrosse or circus events, why dont they (if funding was available someplace...of if a private buyer wanted to) renovate the inside completely, and then get the concerts to stop going to Darien Lake and go here...I mean with half a brain you could get a show EVERY night here...big names too.

And if you think people would not drive from Pittsburgh or Cleveland to see their favorite band...you are crazy.

over the years, Buffalo has fallen off the concert scene...this would save it.

What other options are there if Bass Pro changes its mind?

^^ For the Aud, or for the inner waterfront in general?

I'd say for the Aud would be tearing it down. Surely there are some uses, but it would seem to be largely un-adaptable and/or cost prohibitive.

As for the waterfront, it's already progressing at breakneck speed as compared to past years.

No deal at the deadline... extension coming. :nuts:

^ it was a soft deadline anyways...Mayor Brown said on the news that if there was some kind of progress being made at the "deadline" that they would extend it.

puhleeze

In other words:

"We need you, we need you, we need you, please don't leave, we need you! We'll give you what you want, we were only playing. You want that? We can do that!"

Even if Bass Pro decided to build a new store, their will be no money
left to tear down the Aud or remodel it. Every single penny of taxpayers
money and State Power Authority money for Waterfront developments will be given to Bass Pro.

no. it won't.

Bass Pro discussions to continue past today (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20070116/1053828.asp)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Momentum' trumps established deadline

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
1/16/2007

Talks aimed at landing a Bass Pro Shops outdoor store on the Buffalo waterfront will continue beyond today's deadline.

Mayor Byron W. Brown, who proposed the 30-day ultimatum adopted by the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. on Dec. 18, said negotiations with the retailer show enough promise to warrant a deadline extension.

"The talks are going very well now, and while we still want to adhere to the deadline as closely as possible, we don't want to interfere with the momentum we've got going," Brown said Monday.

Larry Quinn, the Erie Canal Harbor panel's lead negotiator on the Bass Pro deal, also noted that the hefty weekend ice storm that hit the Midwest also temporarily froze talks about a Buffalo store. Springfield, Mo., where Bass Pro Shops is headquartered, suffered significant weather damage and widespread power outages.

"They've been dealing with power outages, trees down and problems like we had here in October. They weren't in a position to be very constructive for the past few days, and we respect that," Quinn said.
Hold on a minute - the Midwest has been a snow disaster since 2004? OK, go on...
Negotiations between local waterfront planners and Bass Pro executives have taken a dramatic turn since the 30-day edict was issued. The parties are now focused on a potential store site at the city's historic Central Wharf, directly on the Buffalo River.

"The deadline has served as the catalyst we all hoped it would be. The pace of the discussion has accelerated, and everyone involved is being as creative and flexible as possible," Brown said.

Quinn also said the parties are all "putting in a good-faith effort."

"These are serious, detailed discussions. Bass Pro is very engaged in what is a collaborative effort," he said.

For years, discussions have been centered on the idle Memorial Auditorium and the feasibility of converting it to retail use. Consideration has also been given to demolishing the Aud, creating a blank slate for Bass Pro and other commercial ventures.

The Central Wharf site is in front of the Aud on city-owned land that is part of the $49 million Erie Canal Harbor restoration effort. It is said to have captured the imagination of Bass Pro founder Johnny Morris because of its proximity to the water.

The proposal under discussion involves an approximately 125,000-square-foot store built to resemble a wharf building that would have been found on the site in the mid-1800s.

While much smaller than the 250,000-square-foot store Bass Pro announced for the Aud in 2004, the proposed Central Wharf store would still be a major attraction, according to the mayor.

"The plan is for it to be special and unique, a true attraction, regardless of the size," he said. "The way it would be incorporated with the water would make it a one-of-a-kind Bass Pro."

At 125,000 square feet, it would be larger than the Bass Pro Sportsman's Center in Auburn, which drew more than 2 million visitors in 2006, but smaller than the company's 140,000-square-foot Outdoor World in suburban Toronto.

The scaled-back Bass Pro might also be a better fit for Buffalo's inner harbor and the goal of creating a thriving district that brings together retail, entertainment, office and residential development.

Buffalo businessman Howard Zemsky, who served on an economic development committee established by Gov. Eliot L. Spitzer's transition team, said he suggested a smaller Bass Pro as part of his report regarding Buffalo waterfront efforts.

"The original big-box store plans were a case of the tail wagging the dog. They had to go as big as possible to justify converting the Aud," Zemsky said. "With the Aud out of the equation, they can rationalize a smaller store that's a better fit for the neighborhood."


e-mail: slinstedt@buffnews.com



This is pathetic. "Momentum"? Isn't this what we've been being told all along?!?!?!? If that's the case, why the hell was the deadline necessary?

Why doesn't anybody else see this? City grew a backbone my ass. My ass has a bigger backbone.

I'm starting to think Larry Quinn is beginning to regain his mid/late '90s "Sabreitis". Too bad, he seemed like he was going to be so much better in the development game.

Even if Bass Pro decided to build a new store, their will be no money
left to tear down the Aud or remodel it. Every single penny of taxpayers
money and State Power Authority money for Waterfront developments will be given to Bass Pro.
That is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard anybody say. W's "Mission Accomplished" stunt looks like an axiom by comparison.

I dunno guys, think about it...if Bass Pro fails to commit, who else would really move in to draw enough business to be an anchor? I don't think anyone will in the current situation.

I still think the city is really wishing for this...perhaps more so than Bass Pro.

well, lets see what happens.

I dunno guys, think about it...if Bass Pro fails to commit, who else would really move in to draw enough business to be an anchor? I don't think anyone will in the current situation.

I still think the city is really wishing for this...perhaps more so than Bass Pro.

well, lets see what happens.

Exactly... having a Bass Pro will help attract the other retailers and restaurants. Someone needs to be the first to commit- and it has to be a draw. No one is going down there on a wintry Wednesday for Bath & Body Works.

Macy's would be nice...but not yet, the last thing I wanna see is someone opening downtown and then ending up looking like Main Place. It's going to take a unique retailer to open down there, not clothing or electronics...something that is not really offered anyplace else in the metro, a bass pro fits the build.

Buffalo is gifted with having a very windy and frigid downtown in the winter months, walking around shopping is probably ruled out of many peoples minds, so I guess a parking ramp would have to go up also...just the way it is.

don't get me going on this who parking, worker and transit debate...I had to pretty much fight one handed against all of the Allentown hippies on this issue :ohno: BRO...sometimes....ahhhhhh

This is Bullshit! Anyone hear of anything lately?! The deadline was over a week ago and they said they were close so they extended the deadline. Then it seems everything dropped off the face of the Earth. The news isn't even covering the story anymore. What's going on? Now we really look like a bunch of assholes over this thing. :ohno:

come on you know Buffalo...:lol:

This is Bullshit! Anyone hear of anything lately?! The deadline was over a week ago and they said they were close so they extended the deadline. Then it seems everything dropped off the face of the Earth. The news isn't even covering the story anymore. What's going on? Now we really look like a bunch of assholes over this thing. :ohno:
Think October surprise. Most of the schools around Springfield, Mo. have been closed all of this week due to weather and continued power outages relating to the ice storm they had last week.

SW Mo. storm toll estimated in millions
By MARCUS KABEL The Associated Press

January 23, 2007


SPRINGFIELD — It is still too early to tally the damage from an ice storm that punished southwest Missouri more than a week ago, but officials Monday left no doubt the cost will be large and possibly the worst on record from bad weather.

Widespread power outages sent a ripple effect through the regional economy. Grocers and restaurants had to throw out perishable food, consumers were focused on survival rather than leisure shopping, and cattle ranchers saw thousands of miles of fence destroyed.

For the Springfield area alone, David Coonrod, Greene County Presiding Commissioner, said he has heard speculative estimates of $25 million in damage and recovery costs.

“But none of us have a clear feel yet for the magnitude of the costs. We’re just coming out of the storm itself into recovery mode,” Coonrod said.

“It’s going to be a big hit for Greene County and all the jurisdictions around us,” he said.

State Farm estimated damage of $9 million to its customers in Missouri from 4,500 homeowner claims and 500 auto claims.

The worst storm in at least 50 years spread freezing rain and sleet over a 50-mile swath along Interstate 44 from around Joplin to St. Louis.

Ice up to 2 inches thick tore down trees, limbs, utility poles and power lines, leaving more than 330,000 customers in the dark at the peak. Blackouts continued for more than 35,000 customers in southwest Missouri as of Monday, state officials said.


http://columbiamissourian.com/news/story.php?ID=23855

This has really been a f'cked up winter. Only now does it seem to be starting to trend back to "normal", whatever that is.

You won't hear anything really about the project this week for two reasons: 1. the aforementioned Midwest storm, and 2. Larry Quinn is in Dallas for the All-Star Game. Remember, this is Buffalo, and Hockey does come before waterfront development. :)

This is Bullshit! Anyone hear of anything lately?! The deadline was over a week ago and they said they were close so they extended the deadline. Then it seems everything dropped off the face of the Earth. The news isn't even covering the story anymore. What's going on? Now we really look like a bunch of assholes over this thing. :ohno:

But why make a decision when you can talk about it some more?:hammer:

I wonder if they shoot Emails to each other about the "idea" ? lol

talking is fun, I bet there are a group of them who do lunch like 3 times a week just talking about Bass Pro.

btw, they never said they would annouce anything after the deadline, Brown simply said they would begin looking at other retailers at that point as well...like we have a HUGE list of them wanting to buy into downtown. :ohno:

Larry Quinn and the rest of them believe their own lies !

I would laugh if Cabelas opened there...or in Main Place. lol

Exactly, why just Bass Pro? Cabela's or Gander Mountain would be pretty good too...

actually I hear Cabelas is better...but...:)

Bass Pro: Hey Buffalo, your still cute. You think I can borrow some cash?
Buffalo: Oh sure baby, anything you want. Here just take it, is there anything else you want sweet heart?I think about you all the time! I still believe in us, don't you?!!!!
Bass Pro:Oh definitely, your always gonna be number one in my eyes, your a real catch!
Buffalo: I just knew we belong together!!!
:lol:

Bass Pro: Hey Buffalo, your still cute. You think I can borrow some cash?
Buffalo: Oh sure baby, anything you want. Here just take it, is there anything else you want sweet heart?I think about you all the time! I still believe in us, don't you?!!!!
Bass Pro:Oh definitely, your always gonna be number one in my eyes, your a real catch!
Buffalo: I just knew we belong together!!!
:lol:

Buffalo is just Bass Pro's 'sugar daddy'

Mayor still envisions Bass Pro development
Business First of Buffalo - 1:46 PM EST Wednesday, February 21, 2007by James FinkBusiness First

Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown remains confident that a deal will be struck for a Bass Pro Shops store on the shore's of the Inner Harbor development project.

Brown, in his "State of the City" address delivered Feb. 20, said he expected positive news to be announced soon concerning Bass Pro.


When the project was first announced more than two years ago, Bass Pro had eyed Memorial Auditorium for a 250,000-square-foot store. Plans have since been scaled back and the site relocated.

Bass Pro and representatives from the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. are now negotiating on a plan that will see the sporting goods retailing giant open a 150,000-square-foot store on the edge of Lake Erie and the central wharf area around the Inner Harbor development project.

The mayor also reiterated his desire to secure $21 million in state or federal funds to demolish the long-vacant "Aud."

Brown, during a mid-December harbor development corporation meeting, gave Bass Pro until Jan. 16 to sign a deal with the city or he wanted to walk away from the project. Bass Pro is being offered $35 million in public-sector incentives to open the downtown Buffalo store.

While the Jan. 16 deadline has come and gone, Brown said he is confident enough that talks are moving ahead that he dropped his ultimatum.

"As long as the talks are going well, I'm not going to cut anything off," Brown said. "The lead negotiators are telling them they are confident enough that there will be a deal."

Larry Quinn, Buffalo Sabres managing partner and Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. vice chairman, is heading up the Bass Pro talks.

Bass Pro has been talking with Buffalo officials about opening a downtown store near the edge of Lake Erie for more than six years.

Brown admits the protracted negotiations is growing tiresome.

"I'm tired about hearing about it (the Bass Pro question) too," he said. "I just hope it gets done."



:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

mayor "ENVISIONS" bass pro... envision away buddy.

i envision dense,urban,sustainable neighborhoods, an expanded transit system, and a growing region, doesn't mean any of them is happening.

perhaps i need to envision harder.

perhaps i need to envision harder.
Yeah, come on. What are you waiting for?

I envision a slacker. :D

Brown is a moron...but I still think Bass Pro will build.

History says 'No' to hosting a Bass Pro (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20070304/1064109.asp)

3/4/2007

By DONN ESMONDE

Lost in the frenzy to cram Bass Pro into the Erie Canal Harbor history site is a simple fact: It is not allowed there. Not even if the sporting goods monolith is cloaked, as proposed, in a 19th century-style building facade.

We spent years pounding out a plan for what does and doesn't fit near the Commercial Slip. It is the historic terminus of the Erie Canal, now taking shape near the old Aud.

It was a people-driven plan forged by years of controversy and compromise. The battle involved public protests, a federal lawsuit and 14,000 pro-history petition signatures. It included the exploding of an "exploding canal stones" myth floated by state officials to keep the historic canal walls buried. It involved a national conference on heritage economics, meetings with community and preservation groups, and master plans.

It was a long, hard road, but it led us to the right place. We got a plan that balanced the unearthing of history - the Commercial Slip, building ruins, cobblestone streets - with open public space and areas for shops, restaurants and museums. Planned buildings would be mostly two- and three-story brick structures on small-to-midsized lots, just like were there 150 years ago. That neighborhood did not include a big-box megastore.

But then negotiations - led by Larry Quinn of the waterfront development agency, the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. - with Bass Pro fell apart for the Aud site. Bass Pro turned a covetous eye at the public waterfront space on the nearby history site. What didn't matter, to Quinn or to the mega-sports store, is the site's hard-fought master plan bans monoliths like Bass Pro: "Large single-use program areas such as multiplex cinemas or large-scale big box retail spaces . . . are prohibited."

Big-box retail is not prohibited on the history site out of mere whim. It is prohibited because it swallows the public space vital to any waterfront project, such as Baltimore's Inner Harbor and Manhattan's Battery Park. The plan sets aside the old Central Wharf - where Bass Pro wants to go - as "open [public] space . . . for passive and active recreational activities."

Big-box retail is prohibited because it cheapens history at the definitive site of the canal that changed America.

"Special care has been taken," reads the plan, "to avoid creating an inauthentic [historic] facsimile, so as not to trivialize the site's heritage."

The way I see it, there is no better way to "trivialize the site's heritage" than to plop a huge sporting goods store on it. Our page in America's story should not be punctuated with a fishing rod.

Don't get me wrong. I am not anti-Bass Pro. Getting Bass Pro makes it easier to lure a Starbucks, a Barnes and Noble and (hopefully) locally owned shops and restaurants to the "Canal Side" area around the Aud. I just don't think it belongs on a historic site.

The historic site is a small slice of the downtown waterfront pie. The area is teeming with development sites large enough for a Bass Pro, from the likely-to-be demolished Aud or neighboring Donovan Building, to the parking lot at HSBC Arena. If Bass Pro isn't interested in them, lord knows it isn't the only big-box retailer out there. But instead of Quinn & Co. telling Bass Pro that the historic site was off-limits, the talks began.

"It smacks of the same sort of desperation," said one tourism official, who requested anonymity for fear of reprisal, "that we always bring to the table."

Beyond that, wedding Bass Pro with history dumps on a hard-fought, consensus plan that was shaped by the people of this community. Any big change to that plan means another round of studies, public hearings and delays.

We finally got the history site right. We don't need Bass Pro to make it wrong.

e-mail: desmonde@buffnews.com

I agree.

I agree.

Actually if you want to be authentic it is tha passive park area that does not belong at the canal's edge. Look at all of the old pictures and drawings of that area it was completely covered with commerce. Not parks.

Actually if you want to be authentic it is tha passive park area that does not belong at the canal's edge. Look at all of the old pictures and drawings of that area it was completely covered with commerce. Not parks.

:omg: I actually agree with Jerome!

jerome has a point.
but the inner harbor doesn't need a 150-200,000 sq. ft one story box :ohno:

True. Neither Bass Pro nor a big open park are true to history if they're trying to build a historical recreation.

But the city could use a good urban downtown park for events like Thursday In The Square which has become cramped at its current site. LaSalle Park and Delaware park are too far away from downtown (can't walk to bars/restaurants after the event) The Inner Harbor offers a chance for some open space near Downtown... Maybe not necessarily right on the waterfront... but somewhere in that area. The waterfront itself is probably too windy anyway.

jerome has a point.
but the inner harbor doesn't need a 150-200,000 sq. ft one story box :ohno:

True enough but the current proposal is for a 120-150,000 square foot three story building. plus they are now asking Bass Pro to pay a $250,000-325,000 annual rent.

Certainly seems to be a much better deal than the one proposed from 2004 and up until January. I just wish that when the city appeared to grow balls, it would keep them. I think they're there, it just a case of two which are undescended, so to speak.

The Iraqi Information Minister says that Bass Pro is open and fully operational in downtown Buffalo and has slaughtered the infidel invaders from Rochester.

The Iraqi Information Minister says that Bass Pro is open and fully operational in downtown Buffalo and has slaughtered the infidel invaders from Rochester.

http://welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg
"Let the Buffalonian infidels bask in their illusion"


http://welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/

Actually if you want to be authentic it is tha passive park area that does not belong at the canal's edge. Look at all of the old pictures and drawings of that area it was completely covered with commerce. Not parks.


Yes I too am with Jerome on this one.

I still think 1/3 the footprint of a Walmart is too large an area for the inner harbor not to mention it doesn't fit in at all with the Queen City Hub plan at this new site.
I say demo the Aud (since nothing is being done with that) and build it there if they INSIST Buffalo needs this ridiculous bait and tackle/hunting shop.

park generates NO sales tax revenue

Bass Pro generates MUCHO sales tax revenue




don't have to be a doctor to guess which one is the correct answer...but in Buffalo, just reverse that and go forward :ohno:

I still think 1/3 the footprint of a Walmart is too large an area for the inner harbor not to mention it doesn't fit in at all with the Queen City Hub plan at this new site.
I say demo the Aud (since nothing is being done with that) and build it there if they INSIST Buffalo needs this ridiculous bait and tackle/hunting shop.


Queen City Hub Plan<<<< What's that? :lol:

Look at what the new Bass Store in Phoenix AZ has done and the store isn't even open yet for another month or two. the PHX store was announced in 2005 *(almost year after the Buffalo store was announced)


check out this link
www.mesariverview.com

this was all empty fields before Bass Pro store was announced !

damn... Phoenix is so awesome

Yeah, lots of Phoenix was empty fields. Also, I don't get the title of the post - can a Bass Pro store do what for Buffalo? You present a question which has nothing to do with the article. Maybe the better question is, what did it do for Phoenix?

Stupid northerners, wait 'til the water runs out. Where 'ya gonna find the fishies then!

LOL!

could a Bass Pro store do this for Buffalo ?
God I hope not.... That diagram is 80% parking lots!

Wow, that development looks like something steel designed!

Look at what the new Bass Store in Phoenix AZ has done and the store isn't even open yet for another month or two. the PHX store was announced in 2005 *(almost year after the Buffalo store was announced)


check out this link
www.mesariverview.com

this was all empty fields before Bass Pro store was announced !

OMG! I'm sooooooooooooooo jealous! Buffalo def. needs this! just look at all that ample parking! I think we should demolish more of downtown for development like this!!

Wow, that development looks like something steel designed!


No, I definitely don't have the talent to think up something like that.

BASS PRO MOVING TO CITY HALL

by: Jack Mehoffer

In a powerful sign of drive, the Bass Pro company announced it will be moving its 5,000 sq ft. store into the 5th floor of Buffalo city hall. Mayor Byron Brown confirmed the news this evening while at Aldi on Transit.

Bass Pro is expected to spend $20,000 to $22,000 to renovate the space making it the smallest Bass Pro in the nation but the only one at 5 stories.

The store should be open by the fall of 2009.

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

ooops

It would be grand if Jack Mehoffer really wrote for the snews

Wow, that development looks like something steel designed!

I thought he only designed Rite-Aid stores for Paladino?

I am getting good vibes this week. Think three stories with boat docks.

mehoffer says

Yeah, well you little boys have fun in lala land. :goodnight I'll dream my own vibes of something a little more meaningful which reaches a larger and arguably more desirable demographic.

But some dreams come true

Sometimes, yes. Then again, many more don't.

For example, the "American Dream". Why is it a dream?

'Cause you gotta be asleep to believe it! Bass Pro is the same exact thing.

I am getting good vibes this week. Think three stories with boat docks.
Thanks for reiterating my post from March 7th!

:ohno: don't be shitty...getting hit with Steel hurts! :nuts:

I hope Bass Pro builds down there...just to piss off the nay sayers.

lets be honest, more people are going to shop at Bass Pro than visit a silly canal museum thingy...you know I'm right! :)

Maybe not, but cultural tourism is not to be underestimated. I think if you did it right, you could have something roughly similar to the Erie Canal Village in Rome.

It might not draw as many people, but it'll draw from farther away than a soon-to-be oversaturated bait and tackle shop.

City takes easy way out by waiting for Bass Pro (http://www.buffalonews.com/222/story/40755.html)
Updated: 03/27/07 6:42 AM

It’s nice to see that the Buffalo Common Council’s Community Development Committee held a meeting to get public input on how to develop our waterfront. It would be nicer if the committee members actually cared about what we think, because the truth is, they don’t.

The agencies responsible for creating the master plan for developing our waterfront have adopted the “silver bullet” approach, which has everything to do with Bass Pro, and they are bound and determined to follow it through. Why else would they continue negotiating with Bass Pro even months after Mayor Byron Brown’s self-imposed 30-day deadline?

The answer is simple. They are hoping that with such a tremendous destination as Bass Pro that waterfront development will take care of itself. They see stores, restaurants and other attractions filling the waterfront with little or no effort from them. All they have to do is sit back and watch it happen.

They’re banking on Bass Pro because it gets them off the hook for having to devise a real comprehensive plan to develop the waterfront. They’re continuing to hope that $66 million and time will make all this come true. That’s the plan. Don’t we deserve better than that?
At least some of us "get" it.

^^ where did you see that?

Opinion pages. I like to read those sometimes.

Deal reached on Bass Pro store
By Sharon Linstedt - News Staff Reporter
Updated: 03/29/07 12:22 PM


SAVE EMAIL PRINT POPULAR + Larger Font + Smaller Font A deal has been reached to bring a Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World store to Buffalo's waterfront.

The Buffalo News has confirmed the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. is expected to approve an agreement for a Bass Pro store on the former Central Wharf site, directly on the Buffalo River.

The deal is the linchpin in a $250 million private/public initiative to redevelop Buffalo's Erie Canal Harbor District, with the one-of-a-kind Bass Pro store as the retail anchor. The store is expected to be 120,000 square feet, about half the size of the store originally planned for the old Memorial Auditorium.

"This is the real deal. We have money, we have a developer and this is going to happen," said a member of the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. board of directors, which negotiated the agreement.

The vote will take place at a special meeting of the harbor development panel scheduled for 10 a.m. Friday.

The agreement is "a completely different animal" than the Memorandum of Understanding, unveiled with great fanfare in November 2004, according to the panel member, who confirmed the deal on the condition of anonymity.

"The '04 announcement was made on a wing and a prayer and it turned out to be just another plan, just another photo opportunity. This is based in reality," the source added.

The agreement forecasts a spring 2008 construction start, with Bass Pro and other retailers opening by mid-2009 on the five-acre site, which is bounded by Scott and Main streets, the historic Commercial Slip and the Buffalo River.

In addition to construction of a Bass Pro store, designed to resemble a circa 1800s commercial building, the plan also calls for an adjacent cluster of retail shops, linked to a 300-car parking garage.

An Erie Canal/Great Lakes Museum, waterside promenade, public plaza, and a linear water feature on the former site of the Prime Slip are also part of the blueprint.

Under terms of the predevelopment agreement, Bass Pro would receive $25 million in public funding to open a waterfront store. Bass Pro would be required to pay a common area fee of $300,000 a year to help support the Erie Canal Harbor district.

The deal also provides the city with $10 million to pay for demolition of the vacant Memorial Auditorium, which had long been the hoped-for site of a Buffalo Bass Pro Shops store.

Buffalo-born Benderson Development will act as the project's developer, overseeing construction of the outdoor store and additional retail on the waterfront site, as well as mixed used projects on the Aud site, Donovan State Office Building site, and the vacant Webster Block, in front of HSBC Arena.

The development process "will necessarily" include fresh environmental impact studies to evaluate the feasibility and appropriateness of bringing the mix of retail, entertainment and historical venues to the site, according to the harbor panel source.

"There is a process to be followed and we will honor that process. There are no final designs at this point, so there is flexibility in making this work," he said.

For full details, see Friday's Buffalo News.

"Other retailers"?

cool... between this, Dave & Busters and Cheesecake Factory... Buffalo-Niagara is going to become a real tourist destination

We can wait to judge ourselves until Willis McGahee returns.

I'm one of the CORRECT six...wonderful. :banana:

me too!

I'm one of the CORRECT six...wonderful. :banana:

me too!

Yeah, but I voted with Pebble Creek. Therefore I is
Smorrt ! !

Speaking of McGahee, I was listening to WGR about the Aud, and they brought up that when he first started playing here, his real estate agent was driving him down Rte 5 along the lakeshore. He pointed and asked "what ocean is that?"

Maybe just an urban legend of sorts, or maybe he's really that dumb.

I'm one of the incorrect 17, stupid me. :)

No, he really is that dumb.

I'm sure he'll be asking what lake Baltimore is on now :ohno:

maybe geography is not a priority anymore...I dunno.

2008 is going to be the year of the crane in Buffalo!

Maybe we can now change this poll to: Will the Bass Pro plans be approved?

:bash:

yes, I'm sure they will because they are very catchy...it looks nice and I think it will (though I'm opposed to a canal club) be a nice added touch to downtown Buffalo. This gives me a Baltimore vibe...bit smaller scale but does have some equal qualities.

The design, I don't know if the public market was added or will be near by, but thats one thing I wanna see in this whole deal...as well as green space.

ECoast...I have been looking over an area and I'll send you a PM about it. :)

May as well post some updates :

http://www.buffalorising.com/story/podcast_the_canalside_project

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/181322.html