Metro is starting to install new signage on its stations, to establish a more uniform image to the stations. Here the grey Metro Red Line station signage at North Hollywood is in the process of being replaced with new black signage, reflecting the uniform system-wide fonts:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/elsongs/transit/P1080435.jpg?t=1168316625

Do you have a pix of what it looked like before?

Do you have a pix of what it looked like before?

I have a comparative pic below (though not of the same station). But it used helvetica fonts on a grey background and had standard green-lighted exit signs:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/elsongs/transit/P9210189.jpg?t=1168321699

I've always felt that the signs were way too small...I've used the metro a lot...but sometimes I still get confused...'which way is patsauras? where's olvera?'

I have a comparative pic below (though not of the same station). But it used helvetica fonts on a grey background and had standard green-lighted exit signs:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/elsongs/transit/P9210189.jpg?t=1168321699


I really don't see the dramatic difference at all, I guess it's just me*

I really don't see the dramatic difference at all, I guess it's just me*

You'll notice it more if you looked at the signage styles of all the rail lines.
The Red, Blue and Green lines all had grey sign structures, the blue and green used a colored rectangular "shadow" to mark the line name color, while the Red line uses red circles on either side of the station name...the point being is that there was really no systemwide signage standard, nearly each line had its own format, the new one is identical to what has been used on the Gold and Orange lines, it ties the system together.

So my question since we now officially have the Purple Line will those Wilshire/Western trains now have Purple stripes running along side of them?

So my question since we now officially have the Purple Line will those Wilshire/Western trains now have Purple stripes running along side of them?

Since they are the same trains, in all likelihood they will not, but the stations should have some sort of purple indication in the signage. I'm also sure there will be on-train signs indicating to passengers which line it is.

The Blue and Green lines do not have any blue or green on the outside of the trains.

So let me get this straight..... The Purple Line stations along Wilshire are officially Name PL instead of RL, correct?

Has each Stations "M" sign has been change to a Purple color and they got rid of the Red?

So let me get this straight..... The Purple Line stations along Wilshire are officially Name PL instead of RL, correct?

Has each Stations "M" sign has been change to a Purple color and they got rid of the Red?

No one officially uses "RL" or "PL" so I don't know if that matters. Right now the maps have *a* purple-colored line but none of the lines are named. This is just a phase-in period I would assume. As for the (M) sign outside the station, I'm pretty sure they're still red right now but that will change in the coming months. I'm going to Wilshire/Western in a few hours so I'l find out for sure.

I think L.A. has one of the best looking subway stations

^Certainly one of the cleanest but that's solely due to the fact that it's also one of the most under-utilized subways.

No one officially uses "RL" or "PL" so I don't know if that matters. Right now the maps have *a* purple-colored line but none of the lines are named. This is just a phase-in period I would assume. As for the (M) sign outside the station, I'm pretty sure they're still red right now but that will change in the coming months. I'm going to Wilshire/Western in a few hours so I'l find out for sure.



^ If the map shows a purple Line, then MTA needs to put add Purple Metro signs for those stations on Wilshire!

CONCUR!

^Certainly one of the cleanest but that's solely due to the fact that it's also one of the most under-utilized subways.

Actually, some of the stations are starting to get dirty...so much for under-utilization!

^ If the map shows a purple Line, then MTA needs to put add Purple Metro signs for those stations on Wilshire!

Um, they can't just do it in a day. These things get phased in.

Like the new signage. I was wondering how long it would take before they started phasing that in.

Truthfully though, I'm really waiting for Metro to replace their system of color coding rail lines with a letter-based system ("A" line, "B" line, etc.). While the colors look nice to the eye, they are running out of colors and some colors are starting to encroach upon other colors (e.g. the Gold vs. Orange Lines and the suggestion that the Expo Line be named the "Cardinal Line" which is practically red) which is not helpful to those who experience various forms of colorblindness.

I'm pretty sure the concept of lettered lines has been considered by Metro (older Metro Rail schedules and older versions of the website refer to rail lines A, B, and C). Perhaps they are leaving the lines "color nameless" for the time being to allow for the eventual phase-in of a letter-based system. (Oh well, one can dream...)

:)

A is red line.
B is blue line.
C is Gold line
D is Green line.

I think you will run out of alphabets before you'll run out of colors and hues. Forward onto the rainbow line!!!

^^ Or maybe the "Clear Line"! :)

I drove by the new MTA customer center on Wilshire/La Brea today. It looks very cool and I'm sure its pretty nice inside. Unfortunately, that intersection is only served by one rapid line and isn't near any kind of tourist destinations. Maybe one day the subway will serve this intersection, but until then, its in an awful location.

:^^ Or maybe the "Clear Line"! :)

or they should go with superheros....like the Wonder Woman line (when will a new movie be made anyway? - i loved her invisible jet!)...or the Superman line :lol:

Wait a minute! You love Wonder Woman's invisible jet and you only scored 10% on the gay-o-meter??!! Hmph!!!

Wait a minute! You love Wonder Woman's invisible jet and you only scored 10% on the gay-o-meter??!! Hmph!!!

that's why i was like WHAT THE?!?!

I think L.A. has one of the best looking subway stations

...In the US, but some European and Asian stations simply kick our asses.

I drove by the new MTA customer center on Wilshire/La Brea today. It looks very cool and I'm sure its pretty nice inside. Unfortunately, that intersection is only served by one rapid line and isn't near any kind of tourist destinations. Maybe one day the subway will serve this intersection, but until then, its in an awful location.

It should be at 7th/Metro Center or Union Station. But then it's MTA-owned property, which means when the Purple Line gets extended there's no need for eminent domain.

^^ Or maybe the "Clear Line"! :)

P.A. Announcement:

"Welcome aboard the Metro Clear Line, our next stop is L. Ron Hubbard Way..."

:lol:

Like the new signage. I was wondering how long it would take before they started phasing that in.


I'm pretty sure the concept of lettered lines has been considered by Metro (older Metro Rail schedules and older versions of the website refer to rail lines A, B, and C). Perhaps they are leaving the lines "color nameless" for the time being to allow for the eventual phase-in of a letter-based system. (Oh well, one can dream...)

:)

You're correct, but they seem to have abandoned it. It never really caught on with the public. Even so, people will still call them by their colors. A lot of old-time NYers still call certain subway lines out there "The BMT" or "The IND"
even though there's no reference whatsoever to it on the modern maps.

Let's face it, changing the system of Metro Rail colored lines is like renumbering the freeway system.

^^ What about the Expo Line, I've never heard anyone outside this forum called it the Aqua Line. Or what is the Rose line which ever it is everyone knows it as Expo. Hopefully it doesn't get called a specific color line. i like it the way it is now.

^^ What about the Expo Line, I've never heard anyone outside this forum called it the Aqua Line. Or what is the Rose line which ever it is everyone knows it as Expo. Hopefully it doesn't get called a specific color line. i like it the way it is now.

The "Expo Line" was the working title of the light rail line, just like "Pasadena Blue Line" was for the Gold Line. The Blue Line's working title was "Los Angeles-Long Beach Rail Transit Project." Nobody calls the Exposition project a colored line because it hasn't opened yet!!!

I don't understand why you're so against the colored line system. I think the Aqua Line is a wonderful color and a wonderful name.

same here

Those signs look exactly like the San Juan Metro ones.

The "Expo Line" was the working title of the light rail line, just like "Pasadena Blue Line" was for the Gold Line. The Blue Line's working title was "Los Angeles-Long Beach Rail Transit Project." Nobody calls the Exposition project a colored line because it hasn't opened yet!!!

I don't understand why you're so against the colored line system. I think the Aqua Line is a wonderful color and a wonderful name.


What are you talking about El, I don't have a problem with color schemes and whatnot. What I don't like is the fact that everything we do is so similar to East Coast Cities, always.....

This is Los Angeles and as Angelinos we deserve the very best not hand me down names. If it was really up to me I would name each Line by a famous Angelino. Wether it's a movie Star, Writer, politician or anyone who made a big positive change for Los Angeles. being yesterday or 100 years ago. Know that's unique and much pride.... Not like the punk ass colors, God Lord!!!!

I hope you understand my point of view...?:)


as far as the Aqua Line......:toilet:

Sup guys, question for ya. Is there any map that shows a list of the proposed lines and where they stop/run to? I've never seen the "expo" line on the mta website so I was just wondering.

Regarding the color scheme: the main issue issue in my opinion with color schemes is that colorblind people make up quite a significant portion of the population. It would be extremely unfair for us to not give them an adequate way to discriminate between the a red and a green line for example.

The LA stations are definitely much cleaner though than some of the other stations I've seen around the US. Honestly though, it'd be tough to match some of the Asian cities. Asians seem to have an obsession with cleanliness that us sloppy Americans might not be able to match. I know in Seoul they clean the subways every single night. The last time I was in Korea, they even had disposable bags at every entrance to a building for your wet umbrellas, just so you could bag them rather than dripping on the floor. That's some serious dedication to cleanliness. The subway in Taipei was immaculate from my recollection as well.

Regarding the color scheme: the main issue issue in my opinion with color schemes is that colorblind people make up quite a significant portion of the population. It would be extremely unfair for us to not give them an adequate way to discriminate between the a red and a green line for example.


That's a very, very, very poor argument. Do you have actual statistics? Even so, then why do we have red, yellow and green traffic lights? Motorists make up a "significant portion of the population," so why don't you get the US Department of Transportation to ban colored stoplights instead?

The "Blue Line" is written as "Blue Line" on schedules, trains and signage. whether there's an actual blue colored line or not. A color blind person (assuming they are not illiterate) can see the words "Blue Line" whether it appears blue or another color. You are actually insinuating that a color blind person is too dumb to make that distinction. I would assume that they know where the "Blue Line" or "Gold Line" goes even if their colors (which only appears on maps and signage) don't appear the same to them.

Besides, Los Angeles is not the only city, nor even the first to use a color-coded transit system. Washington DC, Boston, San Diego and many others do. Why don't you get them to give them up first?

What are you talking about El, I don't have a problem with color schemes and whatnot. What I don't like is the fact that everything we do is so similar to East Coast Cities, always.....


Then does that mean you are opposed to Los Angeles having a subway in the first place?

^^ Oh C'mon on El.....
You know exactly what I meant with my post. Besides Subways were built in London way before some of these East Coast cities...... On the serious side do you think my idea is useless or a unique method for such an interesting World Class City.

^^ Oh C'mon on El.....
You know exactly what I meant with my post. Besides Subways were built in London way before some of these East Coast cities......


Correct, so why are you making the assumption that a color-coded rail system is an exclusively east coast concept? As militantly anti-east coast hegemony I may be, even I don't perceive the color-coded Metro line system to be "east coast" when other cities around the world do the same.


On the serious side do you think my idea is useless or a unique method for such an interesting World Class City.

Well I know that naming stations after people is useless. As dignified and deserving as they are, Rosa Parks, Tom Bradley, Julian Dixon, Kenneth Hahn and Chick Hearn shouldn't have stations named after them. If Metro wants to put a statue or plaque of them in or outside the stations, I have no problem with that.

On a similar note, Caltrans has named some freeways after people. But not many people use the names "Christopher Columbus," "Ronald Reagan" or "Glenn Anderson" when they talk about using the 10, the 118 or the 105 freeways. So the freeways example indicates those things don't work.

Another reason against using people's names is that certain people view certain people a certain way. Some Americans view Ronald Reagan as a hero, but some also view him as a villain, based on their ideology or experience. And hence, naming rail lines after people can get bitterly partisan or political. Even naming streets after people can get rather controversial.

If you knew the origins of our line color names, they are not "east coast" at all!

Red Line - Named after the corporate color of the Southern California Rapid Transit District (RTD), who initially built the subway line.

Blue Line- Named after the corporate color of the Los Angeles County Transportation Commission (LACTC), who initially built the light rail line.

(In 1993 the RTD and LACTC merged to become the MTA...)

Green Line - The light rail line was added to the Century / Glenn M. Anderson Freeway (105) as a mandate to mitigate the building of a new freeway to be more environmentally-friendly. Also, since the line runs in the middle of a freeway, the primary color of freeway signage is green.

Gold Line - Originally designed as an extension of the Blue Line, but later given its own line as a connection to the existing Blue Line was too expensive. Intended to be called the "Rose Line" with a pinkish color, that name was shot down because supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky believed the color pink was "Too close to red." Instead named the "Gold Line" as supposedly the first sighting of gold in Southern California was in the Pasadena area.

The Aqua Line's proponents believe the name is aptly-titled as the word "Aqua" is associated with "water" in many languages, and represents the ultimate destination of the line -- Santa Monica Bay. There are also several buildings and landmarks along the route that happen to be aqua-colored.

So our colored lines were named after Los Angeles-area institutions and locations...does that still sound very "East Coast" to you?

Then why does LAX have a Tom Bradley Terminal, when not everyone was up jumping for joy when he was Mayor.

Then why does LAX have a Tom Bradley Terminal, when not everyone was up jumping for joy when he was Mayor.

That's another issue. A terminal is just a building, and buildings are named after people all the time. If they named the entire airport after him, or anyone else, yes that does pose a problem. As for "Not Jumping For Joy" then how do you explain the fact the people of Los Angeles voted him to serve five terms? He was elected to two more terms after the terminal was named after him.
But ultimately I don't think anything should be named after a living person. Naming the Bradley terminal after he died in 1998 would have been more appropriate than naming it in 1984 when he was still in office. Usually oppressive or dictatorial governments name things after political figures who are not only living, but still serving their terms.

I think Bob Hope was a great entertainer but I don't like naming Burbank Airport after him. If they named only the terminal building after him, that wouldn't be a problem.

I have noticed that several Orange Line stations (namely Van Nuys, Reseda, Canoga, etc) have new "Metro" identification signs adjacent to the stations but Sepulveda is lacking any indicator. It is a very hidden station, tucked away off the major streets, and yet there are no signs. Does anyone know if there will be some station identification in the near future? And also, why did the station get built so far away from Sepulveda Boulevard instead of right at the intersection like the other stations?

I have noticed that several Orange Line stations (namely Van Nuys, Reseda, Canoga, etc) have new "Metro" identification signs adjacent to the stations but Sepulveda is lacking any indicator. It is a very hidden station, tucked away off the major streets, and yet there are no signs. Does anyone know if there will be some station identification in the near future? And also, why did the station get built so far away from Sepulveda Boulevard instead of right at the intersection like the other stations?

Those tall signs with the colored wedges bearing the station names are called "pylons." There is probably one at the entrance to the parking lot. I haven't checked. If it's not there it probably will be a pylon in the near future.

As for why it got built so far away - GOOD QUESTION! :) I used it last week to transfer to the Metro Rapid. As soon as the westbound bus crossed Sepulveda, I looked down the street for a Rapid Bus and made a mad dash to the street as soon as I got off!

I assume they set it so far back to convenience the Park & Riders, but as we all know it's not a very patronized station for those who drive their cars to it.

Do we have any pix of what "volsung" is referring to?

That's a very, very, very poor argument. Do you have actual statistics? Even so, then why do we have red, yellow and green traffic lights? Motorists make up a "significant portion of the population," so why don't you get the US Department of Transportation to ban colored stoplights instead?

The "Blue Line" is written as "Blue Line" on schedules, trains and signage. whether there's an actual blue colored line or not. A color blind person (assuming they are not illiterate) can see the words "Blue Line" whether it appears blue or another color. You are actually insinuating that a color blind person is too dumb to make that distinction. I would assume that they know where the "Blue Line" or "Gold Line" goes even if their colors (which only appears on maps and signage) don't appear the same to them.

Besides, Los Angeles is not the only city, nor even the first to use a color-coded transit system. Washington DC, Boston, San Diego and many others do. Why don't you get them to give them up first?

If you want statistics, 10% of the male population in the US is red-green colorblind. It is NOT a small number by any means. To deny that they make up a significant portion of the general population is ignorant to say the least. In addition, the issue really isn't only the difficulty in differentiating red-green, but also shades of red and green. A red-green colorblind person would not be able to distinguish red from a "rose" type color, as both would appear rather brownish to them. This would pose a larger problem if LA were to expand the number of rails using colors to differentiate them alone.

Regarding the traffic lights, it is extremely easy for them to tell these apart because of the positioning. Green is always on top, red is always on bottom. My roommate in undergrad was red-green colorblind and he said this was the primary way in which he could tell the two apart.

I'm not insinuating that colorblind people are just too stupid to read and tell things apart. Please don't put words in my mouth or set up straw man arguments. All I'm saying is that it makes things quite a bit more difficult for people who have specific types of colorblindness, so we should at least try to accommodate them.

You want a specific example: go to mbta.com and take a look at the subway map, then click on the line specific map on the right, for example green. That will show you how the map appears on in the inside of an actual car. As you will notice, stops where you can transfer lines are ONLY marked by a COLORED SQUARE next to the stop. My own roommate had problems with this when he first came here because he didn't know the stops inside out yet.

Whether you agree or not, I'm not really going to argue the point any further. I just don't understand why you are so insistent on maintaining a system solely differentiated by colors alone, when adding letters would only add to the clarity and make it (if even ONLY A TINY BIT) easier on a minority of the population. But then, I suppose they should be "smart" enough to accommodate your stylistic preferences, right?

Also, regarding the other cities. Yes I realize other cities use solely colors to differentiate between the lines. I'm currently stuck in such a city. I am also not stating that EVERYONE who is colorblind is completely disabled and unable to differentiate between red and green, since I am very aware of the fact that colorblind has variable severity in its clinical manifestation.

What I AM stating is that I see no reason why LA should be a STEP ABOVE the rest. We've set the trend countless times before, so why not now? And certainly, I see no reason NOT to help clarify the lines with additional naming.

Regarding the traffic lights, it is extremely easy for them to tell these apart because of the positioning. Green is always on top, red is always on bottom. My roommate in undergrad was red-green colorblind and he said this was the primary way in which he could tell the two apart.


If a colorblind person can use positioning to determine the color of traffic lights, then they can easily distinguish the rail lines apart by their destination signs. The Red Line trains say "North Hollywood" or "Union Station" and the Blue Line trains say "Los Angeles" or "Long Beach."

As for Los Angeles being a "step above the rest," by having high-level platforms on the Blue Line and elevators on all subway stations, we were one of the first rail transit systems in the US to be designed to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act from the start.

If you think it's such and important issue then let the colorblind speak out on this issue for themselves. Their views would be more credible if it came straight from them. If you honestly support their rights then support THEIR freedom of expression, instead of speaking for them. I don't like it when people "fight for others" however well-intentioned they may be. As a person of color, I personally find it patronizing and insulting when a white person tries to "fight for my rights" - that's not true empowerment.

I don't want nobody to give me nothin'
Open up the door, I'll get it myself!
- James Brown

I pointed out an example of a situation when it would be actually be difficult to tell those apart.

Ideally, LA will someday have a rail system where you could just tell someone to "Take the green to the red to the rose line and get off the 3rd stop" and it would be crystal clear. Unfortunately, using a system based purely on colors (and according to the mta site, the rail map does not spell out "red" or "green") makes that difficult for some people.

It may seem like a really minor point to some, but I just don't see a good reason NOT to offer an alternative way to name these lines. Either way, I guess we can just agree to disagree?

Well, for people that use the lines every day, they'll eventually learn the stops and lines inside out and won't need to rely on the color scheme. The people who would be affected by something like this would be visitors, who really wouldn't stick around long enough (or care enough about the city) to actually raise a cry.

If a colorblind person can use positioning to determine the color of traffic lights, then they can easily distinguish the rail lines apart by their destination signs. The Red Line trains say "North Hollywood" or "Union Station" and the Blue Line trains say "Los Angeles" or "Long Beach."

Ah, but Metro's Rail Map doesn't make any distinctions between the Metro Lines. If one cannot discern colors correctly, it might be difficult to tell which line is which.

And if I'm not mistaken, more people are colorblind than legally blind, yet Metro makes significant accommodations for the legally blind. I suppose they are following ADA guidelines on that one, but there's no reason Metro shouldn't go the extra mile for their patrons.

If (hopefully!) one day Metro moves forward on a letter-based system, I'd still like the rail line colors to remain on the map. Perhaps the colors assigned to each rail line could be colors that are easy for those who are colorblind to distinguish between. (Ugh. Awkward sentence.)

Anyway, regardless of what we all opine here, I suppose what will be will be. That is, unless the Metro execs scan these forums daily for direction on policy formation (as we know they all do)! :lol:

Speaking of the Rail Map, the new version now has three transitways listed: the Orange Line and two unnamed (at least unnamed on the map) lines colored brown and grey. Are they calling out existing bus lines? And if so, anyone know which lines?

I was really hoping that this one was going to make the cut this year. This map to me makes me proud and hopeful.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q138/tmaxx6/losangelescomingrail.gif

Speaking of the Rail Map, the new version now has three transitways listed: the Orange Line and two unnamed (at least unnamed on the map) lines colored brown and grey. Are they calling out existing bus lines? And if so, anyone know which lines?



^ One of them is the Express Busway on the 110 FWY. The other I have no idea.

That map is just beautiful. :) Anyone know when the expo line and the east LA gold line are expected to be finished?

2010 and 2009 respectivally. Question, maybe "EL" knows this one or someone else. The E. Gold got started 2 years ago but won't be finished til 2009. Expo is barely getting started now and will be finished a year after the Gold. Is it the tunneling that has slowed Gold? "Matt" I'm glad you think that map is beautiful because so do I. You wanna get steaming mad? Check this out!
http://cheviothills.org/

^^ (K) leave that boy alone.....So there's a minor disagreement!

About the new metro maps: the "Bronze line" is the Harbour Transitway and the "Silver line" is the El Monte Busway.

I think it's pretty amazing to watch the evolution of the Metro over the last several years. I'd be interesting in getting a hold of the various versions of Metro Rail maps that MTA has PDFed and posted on their site. So far I have:

January 2007 (the current one)
July 2004
June 2003


Does anyone out there have any others? It'd be pretty cool to see the original Metro Rail map, if it's still out there somewhere.

I think it's pretty amazing to watch the evolution of the Metro over the last several years. I'd be interesting in getting a hold of the various versions of Metro Rail maps that MTA has PDFed and posted on their site. So far I have:

January 2007 (the current one)
July 2004
June 2003


Does anyone out there have any others? It'd be pretty cool to see the original Metro Rail map, if it's still out there somewhere.

I have some old ones, but keep in mind that the map line geometry has changed over the years - early maps used to show an accurate representation of the Blue Line with slight turns and angles, whereas now it's literally a blue vertical line on a map.

2010 and 2009 respectivally. Question, maybe "EL" knows this one or someone else. The E. Gold got started 2 years ago but won't be finished til 2009. Expo is barely getting started now and will be finished a year after the Gold. Is it the tunneling that has slowed Gold?

The EGL is a more complex work of public engineering than the Exposition line; not only is there 2 miles of tunnel to dig, but the rail bridge that spans the 101 freeway is part of its construction as well.

One mile of the Exposition line already exists, and has existed for 17 years. The rest is putting tracks on the rest of Flower street, digging a short cut-and-cover tunnel under Fig & Expo and dressing the Exposition Rright of way for new track.

I have some old ones, but keep in mind that the map line geometry has changed over the years - early maps used to show an accurate representation of the Blue Line with slight turns and angles, whereas now it's literally a blue vertical line on a map.

See, I learn something new everyday! I didn't know the old Metro maps were more geographically accurate. Are these maps online somewhere? Links! Links! :)

See, I learn something new everyday! I didn't know the old Metro maps were more geographically accurate. Are these maps online somewhere? Links! Links! :)

I'll make a scan when I have the time. The simplified version is more practical as there are more lines and stations now, so fitting all of them on a geographically accurate map wouldn't work out.

^^ Oh, don't worry about scanning it in. I was just interested in seeing the PDFs MTA has posted over the years. But thx anyway! :)

If a colorblind person can use positioning to determine the color of traffic lights, then they can easily distinguish the rail lines apart by their destination signs. The Red Line trains say "North Hollywood" or "Union Station" and the Blue Line trains say "Los Angeles" or "Long Beach."

As for Los Angeles being a "step above the rest," by having high-level platforms on the Blue Line and elevators on all subway stations, we were one of the first rail transit systems in the US to be designed to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act from the start.

If you think it's such and important issue then let the colorblind speak out on this issue for themselves. Their views would be more credible if it came straight from them. If you honestly support their rights then support THEIR freedom of expression, instead of speaking for them. I don't like it when people "fight for others" however well-intentioned they may be. As a person of color, I personally find it patronizing and insulting when a white person tries to "fight for my rights" - that's not true empowerment.

I don't want nobody to give me nothin'
Open up the door, I'll get it myself!
- James Brown

Actually this is a good idea. I am not colorblind myself but I work in a situation where I have to supervise and test those that are.

Why not rename the line to Pasadena the "rose line", the flower not the color to go wil the rose bowl and the rose city; or rename the red line to hollywood, Universal City and NOHO, the "star" line. The Expo line could be the "Trojan" line since it goes to USC, and the purple line to Westwood could be the "Bruin" line. The blue line could be the "Harbor line". We could decorate the trains with stars, bears, Tommy Trojan, boats, and roses, and change the color scheme to go along with the new mascots. Blue and Gold for Westwood, red and Gold for Troy, the blue line could stay the same. The Orange line could stay the same and get pictures of the fruit in honor of the "Big orange", We would never run out of colors and maybe it would help some folks who are colorblind and well as being a more interesting way of naming the trains.

Actually this is a good idea. I am not colorblind myself but I work in a situation where I have to supervise and test those that are.


If the totally blind can navigate the Metro (they can't see ANY colors...) then what excuse do the colorblind have?

If the totally blind can navigate the Metro (they can't see ANY colors...) then what excuse do the colorblind have?

The issue is not that people with handicaps can do something, the issue is making things as convenient as possible for everybody. Plus wouldn't it be cool to tell folks to take the star line to Hollywood?

The issue is not that people with handicaps can do something, the issue is making things as convenient as possible for everybody. Plus wouldn't it be cool to tell folks to take the star line to Hollywood?

I live in Hollywood, the "Star line" sounds cheesy. Plus, a certain established tour bus company of the same name would object to it.

Metro system maps and signage include enough references to the name of the line in text IN ADDITION TO the designated color. A colorblind person might not be able to see the color blue the same as we do but they can certainly see the letters "B-L-U-E L-I-N-E" and easily figure out that it doesn't go to North Hollywood.

If the issue is "making things as convenient as possible for everybody" then I want every train that leaves the station once I arrive atthe platform to come to a screeching halt, back up and let me on. Are you willing to subsidize that for me?

If the colored lines/colorblind issue is such a faux-pas for the Metro, then where are all the colorblind forum members voicing their displeasure on here? And don't say that the blue-colored theme of this forum is a deterrent. I'd rather hear from them than others who claim to speak on their behalf.

If the totally blind can navigate the Metro (they can't see ANY colors...) then what excuse do the colorblind have?

Possibly not all colorblind folks read braille?

Metro system maps and signage include enough references to the name of the line in text IN ADDITION TO the designated color. A colorblind person might not be able to see the color blue the same as we do but they can certainly see the letters "B-L-U-E L-I-N-E" and easily figure out that it doesn't go to North Hollywood.


Here's the link to the latest official "Go Metro" map from the MTA:
http://www.mta.net/images/rail_map.pdf

I do not see "B-L-U-E L-I-N-E" anywhere.

Hey, I just watched Little Miss Sunshine, and color blindness is an issue to one of the characters.

Here's the link to the latest official "Go Metro" map from the MTA:
http://www.mta.net/images/rail_map.pdf

I do not see "B-L-U-E L-I-N-E" anywhere.

Hey, I just watched Little Miss Sunshine, and color blindness is an issue to one of the characters.

That is the only version of the map that the MTA produced that does not mention the lines by name. I expect that to be temporary as they are phasing in the Purple Line and the "Expo/Aqua/Rose" Line issue has yet to be 100% settled.

Colorblind people are not dumb. They can ask someone, "What line is this?" (Please don't argue, "Well, what if they're shy and introverted? Nyuk Nyuk...") And if they ride the system frequently enough, navigating it is really no issue.
I think they can figure out that the "Red Line" does not run on the street and that the "Green Line" doesn't go underground...

You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. :ohno:
The colored Metro Rail line concept has been around for 17 years. Where was the outcry 17 years ago? Or even one year ago?
The Washington DC Metro has a colored-line system. Certainly a colorblind lobby would have influenced Congress to ban colored transit lines and make it part of the Americans with Disabilities Act. If so, then we would have never had a colored line system in the first place as the ADA predates the Metro Rail system.

Why didn't any of you folks complain that the USBank tower's red and green crown lights were non-colorblind friendly last Holiday season?
Oh the horror, what if a colorblind person looked up and thought it was the 4th of July instead! (sarcasm). Why don't any of you write letters to the Los Angeles Dodgers organization telling them to drop their team slogan, because not everyone can "Think Blue"?

Colorblindness isn't as debilitating as you make it out to be. As someone pointed out in an earlier thread, they can figure out things like the position of stoplights. Likewise, they can figure out how to distinguish between the Red Line and the Gold Line.

This is really a non-issue.

Hey, I'm actually in favor of sticking with the colors, but I'm not with you when you say the arguments people make aren't making sense. As recently as August 2006 (http://metro.net/board/Items/2006/08_August/20060824RBMItem37.pdf), MTA planners have discussed moving away from the color designations, making some of the same arguments people make here:


Proposal for Future Consideration
Letter Designations
While all transit systems use colors to distinguish lines on their maps, the majority do not name their lines by color but use either an alphabetical or numerical designation (e.g. Barcelona, Buenos Aires, Madrid, Mexico City, Moscow, New York, Paris, Seoul, Tokyo, etc.) or, in some cases end points or place/event names (e.g. London).

As the Metro Rail system grows, the Board may choose to consider following the practice used by most large transit agencies and add an alphabetical designation for each of the Metro Rail lines and fixed guideway projects, and to gradually effect a transition to letters as the primary means of identification for each line.

Among the advantages of alphabetical line designations are simpler and clearer verbal directions (i.e., "Take the C to Wilshire/Vermont and transfer to the D" rather than "Take the Red Line toward Wilshire/Western, exit at Wilshire/Vermont and then take the other Red Line toward Nort Hollywood"), more accurate signage elements with less dependence on the English language, and less dependence on color recognition which is difficult for customers with visual impairments.

Not to mention that constructing hubs like the Downtown Connector will make interlining different routes very possible (IE one line trips of Santa Monica to East LA, Santa Monica to Pasadena). Or that building more lines makes you run out of colors.

Once again, I am for maintaining color designations (I think the colors can still work within interlining, if done in a manner similar to the Taipei Metro). But I don't think you can give short shrift to such arguments and go and say they are non-issues when even MTA planners give acknowledgment.

I live in Hollywood, the "Star line" sounds cheesy. Plus, a certain established tour bus company of the same name would object to it.

Agreed. That's why I prefer lettered lines. Metro has taken too much time arguing over what color goes to which line; it's rare that a Metro board member would be so wedded to a letter that a meeting would get held up because of it.

Metro system maps and signage include enough references to the name of the line in text IN ADDITION TO the designated color. A colorblind person might not be able to see the color blue the same as we do but they can certainly see the letters "B-L-U-E L-I-N-E" and easily figure out that it doesn't go to North Hollywood.

...Well, not so much these days. The current Metro map doesn't list which line is which in the legend anymore. You'd have to use something other than the rail map to learn which line goes where. The full Metro service (aka "bus") map lists the names of the lines, but those maps are usually not posted at Metro stations.

If the issue is "making things as convenient as possible for everybody" then I want every train that leaves the station once I arrive atthe platform to come to a screeching halt, back up and let me on. Are you willing to subsidize that for me?

No, but how about TransiTV in the station to keep you entertained until the next train arrives? :) I hear Pat Sajak has some puzzles that need solving!

If the colored lines/colorblind issue is such a faux-pas for the Metro, then where are all the colorblind forum members voicing their displeasure on here? And don't say that the blue-colored theme of this forum is a deterrent. I'd rather hear from them than others who claim to speak on their behalf.

I wouldn't say it's a faux pas, just an oversight by Metro.

And even though red-green colorblindness affects 7%-10% of men, I suppose the odds of a red-green colorblind person just happening to stumble upon our off-topic discussion are somewhat small. And I don't think there's a problem with me voicing a concern for those who have a disability even if I don't happen to have that disability. If we were discussing removing all the access ramps and elevators from Metro stations, I would hope someone would speak up for folks who would be affected.

Some interesting facts from Wikipedia:

About 1.3% of the US population has some form of colorblindness.
As of 2002, the WHO estimated that only 0.6% of the world's population was blind (that number jives pretty well with the figures for legal blindness in the USA as of 1994-1995).


Metro is pretty good about making accommodations for the legally blind. But, since there are twice as many people with colorblindness, I'd say it doesn't seem unreasonable for Metro to make some additional accommodations for them.

Colorblind people are not dumb. They can ask someone, "What line is this?"

...But we don't expect the legally blind to do this.


And if they ride the system frequently enough, navigating it is really no issue.

True. If anyone rides the system frequently enough, then they already have their habits and have little use for any signage. This issue is more of a concern for tourists, visitors, and others not familiar with the Metro Rail.


The colored Metro Rail line concept has been around for 17 years. Where was the outcry 17 years ago?

I was too busy with middle school at the time.*

Or even one year ago?

It's funny you should mention that, because it was approximately a year ago when I started voicing this concern, although not online.

* Back in the '80s (I think!), when they first floated creating a rail line to Santa Monica along the Expo alignment, I remember mailing a letter to the RTD asking when it would be completed. Whoever replied said it may take until "the year 2000". :lol: True story!

"As the Metro Rail system grows, the Board may choose to consider following the practice used by most large transit agencies and add an alphabetical designation for each of the Metro Rail lines and fixed guideway projects, and to gradually effect a transition to letters as the primary means of identification for each line."

As part of this gradual transition, the Metro map could keep its colors even if the lines' official names change to letters. Seems like that may be the best of both worlds! :)

This has turned out to be the dumbest thread EVER!:bash:

This has turned out to be the dumbest thread EVER!:bash:

Seriously.

This thread reminds me of that Allen Iverson rant a few years ago. Just change 'practice' to 'colors.'

'We're talking about colors. Colors!! Not extending the subway...colors. Not the subway..not the subway..colors! Colors!! COLORS!!

Some interesting facts from Wikipedia:

About 1.3% of the US population has some form of colorblindness.
As of 2002, the WHO estimated that only 0.6% of the world's population was blind (that number jives pretty well with the figures for legal blindness in the USA as of 1994-1995).



I don't care what Wiki has to say, I don't care what you have to say, stop trying to be the "saviour of the colorblind" and give an ACTUAL colorblind person a chance to voice an opinion on this issue! In the meantime, STFU.

Seriously.

This thread reminds me of that Allen Iverson rant a few years ago. Just change 'practice' to 'colors.'

'We're talking about colors. Colors!! Not extending the subway...colors. Not the subway..not the subway..colors! Colors!! COLORS!!

http://www.jackthegiantkiller.com/picture_library/Posters/Colors.jpg

I don't care what Wiki has to say, I don't care what you have to say, stop trying to be the "saviour of the colorblind" and give an ACTUAL colorblind person a chance to voice an opinion on this issue! In the meantime, STFU.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Oh well.

Here's a very recent official MTA map I found that was made with "less dependence on color recognition which is difficult for customers with visual impairments." Basically, lines are identified by pattern versus color:

Go Metro (http://www.mta.net/images/ee_projectMap.pdf).

Though it feels like the key would indicate that the Blue Line is a segment of track between the Southwest Museum and Fillmore stations.

What if your Illiterate, deaf and mute?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What if your Illiterate, deaf and mute?

From MTA.net - Riders with disabilities (http://www.metro.net/riding_metro/riders_guide/quick_tips-03.htm)

Metro [is] the primary funding source for Access Services Incorporated, the federally-required ADA paratransit service. This service is offered to individuals whose disabilities prevent them from independently using regular bus or rail service. It is comparable to fixed-route service and offers 24-hours-a-day curb-to-curb service. For more information, please call Access Services Incorporated at 1.800.827.0829.

Here's a very recent official MTA map I found that was made with "less dependence on color recognition which is difficult for customers with visual impairments." Basically, lines are identified by pattern versus color:

Go Metro (http://www.mta.net/images/ee_projectMap.pdf).

Though it feels like the key would indicate that the Blue Line is a segment of track between the Southwest Museum and Fillmore stations.

Cool map. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it seems to reveal the stations of the Expo Line while not listing it in the map's legend. How odd.

Cool map. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it seems to reveal the stations of the Expo Line while not listing it in the map's legend. How odd.

Thanks to a certain city councilman (and former police chief)'s ego, the official name of the line has yet to be settled.

How has a thread on "new sinage" managed to get 5 pages of juice... oh wait...

:lol: