Taking into consideration the palm tree debate in the Channelside thread and other park and green space considerations that have been raised I thought that it could use its own thread.

Of personal interest to me, will be what will happen to Kiley Gardens. Situated between the beer can and the current art museum, this one time forest of crate myrtles was a green oasis in an otherwise concrete void. However, last year they went in and sawed all the crate myrtles off at the stump, and later poisoned them leaving only rotting stumps and scrubby palm trees in the space. Of great landscape architectural significance the loss of this park is a tragic mar on the cityscape. One of the most heralded designs from architect Dan Kiley, this park deserves better. More information is available, here. (http://www.kileygardens.org/)

http://cdn-77.cdn.buzznet.com/assets/users9/raymor/wb/Shaded_Sidewalk--large-msg-1129434454-2.jpg

http://www.kileygardens.org/images/old.jpg

So, what does everyone want to see happen with this park and others scattered throughout the transforming urban areas.

They really needed to get rid of that park. I worked in the beer can at the time, and the number of homeless sleeping there was out of control. Also, it caused a lot of problems with the garage beneath. I'd much rather see something else there than those plants.

Well a park is needed near or at that location, but first they need to figure out where they will postion the art museum on that site of land, if it ever comes. And hopefully they would put the park on the water and integrate ie with the riverwalk.

Plan a new park around the new museums, obviously. I don't know how much of the land is open for public use (how much of the existing gardens, that is). I'd love to see them restored to some degree.

With Malio's coming to that area as well, they should just redo that entire block to fix it once and for all. It's just so prime land, it needs to have a high quality mixed-use that works for everyone.

As I know some have stated the park was/is home to a certain homeless population, however in cutting the crepe myrtles down the problem persists...they live in the outdoor amphitheater which faces the river.

http://www.kileygardens.org/gallery/Kiley-CleanUp-2-044.jpg

I for one would often go down there and walk through the gardens in the late afternoon on photo expeditions and found it to be very nice... My girl friend was so taken by the park amongst the towers that when they cut all the trees down we went down there and dug up a surviving offshoot which is now transforming from a shrub to a small tree; but thats neither here nor there.

I would honestly like to see the park restored to the way it was when it opened in the 1980's. Restore, the water elements, replant the trees and rework that amphitheater that is a homeless haven. Obviously, there are structural and financial concerns which needs to be addressed but renovating, redeveloping and improving upon this existing landmark would go along way towards cultural preservation and development down town.

Here is some more information from the Kiley Gardens website:


The Issues
The Water Features

The water features were an integral part of Dan Kiley’s design for the gardens. Since the elevated garage and garden visually block the view of the Hillsborough River, the canal and reflecting pools served as a way to bring water to Ashley Drive. Water was a unifying element that connected plaza to garden and garden to river. Unfortunately, citing leakage problems, the City of Tampa removed both the canal and the reflecting pools. In addition, they turned the runnels and fountains off, allowing them to fill up with dirt and leaves.

The Friends of Kiley Gardens wishes to see the water features returned and maintained as a permanent part of the garden. The construction details can be easily modified to utilize current water-proofing technology that will prevent future problems. This goal will require a significant effort, both monetarily and politically. If you can help, please contact us at info@kileygardens.org.
Lack of Use

A common criticism of Kiley Gardens is that “nobody ever uses it”. This couldn’t be farther from the truth. Friends of Kiley Gardens/YARD OPS sponsors monthly clean-up events in the garden on the last Saturday of each month. During these events a large variety of people can be seen enjoying the garden. Myriad activities can be witnessed on any given day; people ride their bicycles along the river and through the garden, business men and women enjoy a quiet lunch, families walk through the garden before and after visiting the Tampa Museum of Art, people relax in the wonderful shade of crape myrtles and enjoy a great book from the John F. Germany Public Library, photographers enjoy the picturesque views of the garden itself and the terrific vantage point it offers of the Hillsborough River and the historic Plant Hotel at the University of Tampa.

During its heyday, the garden played host to many weddings, concerts, lectures and other activities. The Friends of Kiley Gardens hope to reinvigorate the garden with a varied program of activities. If you would like to host an event in the garden, please contact us at email@email.com. We would be happy to facilitate any arrangements that need to be made with the City of Tampa.
The Plant Hall Minarets

Admittedly, it is true that the view from Ashley Drive to the beautiful minarets of the historic Plant Hall (formerly Tampa Bay Hotel) at the University of Tampa is partially obstructed. However, this is due to the practical concerns of including a parking garage on the site and is not a design flaw of the garden. As a result of the parking garage, the garden is elevated approximately eight feet above the level of Ashley Drive. This allowed Kiley to create what he called a “secret garden” that acted as a respite from the noisy streets of downtown. Visitors passed underneath the transparent canal to be bathed in a mysterious refracted light (before it was removed by the City of Tampa) before moving up the stairs into the refreshing shade of the crape myrtles. This elevated vantage point offers what is arguably the best view of Plant Hall’s magnificent minarets.

Most people don’t realize that the Moorish architecture of Plant Hall actually served as an inspiration for Dan Kiley’s design for the garden. The fountains and runnels of the garden are a modern interpretation of a popular Moorish design. In addition, the Great Mosque at Cordoba is a precedent for the brilliant geometric integration of building and garden that is such an important element of Kiley and Wolf’s design. This foundation in traditional Moorish architecture cannot be overlooked, as it inextricably ties this thoroughly modern design to its site in downtown Tampa.

I'm all for restoring the Kiley Gardens to their original splendor. Homeless people will live where they want all over the city. Check out the park between kennedy and platt along the river!
I think downtown is livlier than ever and now is the perfect time for activity there. I remember going to that park quite a few times when I was in middle school (1990 or so) and I was so taken by the water elements. It doesn't have the best reputation - that being the homeless population there, plus it used to be called "Trip Park" when I was in high school for obvious reasons. And I know it is difficult and costly to keep, especially now with all the cracks in the concrete,tiles and structures. Obviously it's fate rests in the future of the mueseum and the parking garage. But it is such an amazing asset for our city. People all over the country know about this project and do not want to see it demolished. I think that if we are planning a forum get together this should definitely be a spot to stop, not everyone gets a chance to see it up close!

I'll stop there, I could go on for hours!

Saw this on the Tampa's Downtown Partnership's weekly memo:

Kiley Park, located behind RiverGate Tower, is awaiting renewal. The City has long range plans to redevelop the park when Curtis Hixon Park is redesigned. But for now, a group of interested citizens have a plan. On May 20, 2007 various artists, schools, and organizations will create "beautifully conceived, conceptual Trees" and "plant them" in the Tampa's Kiley Park. The group Urban Charrettes will also provide a Brochure on "The Importance of Public Realm within A City." This educational material will set the stage for upcoming design charrettes centered on Ashley Drive.

Another blurb about this event on the creativetampabay website:
http://www.creativetampabay.com/newsletter

Also on the Partnership's weekly memo (the last item under "seeing is believing"), there are about 10 or so schematic drawings for Curtis Hixon Park; check it out, it's interesting.

I also noticed that on Hixon Park's drawings, and Tampa's Riverwalk drawings, Kiley Park is still listed, so apparently they are still planning on reproducing something; although I am sure it will not be exactly in its original form.

I am not exactly sure how to post a link... the website is tampasdowntown.com, then "in the know," then "e-newsletter," then "monday morning memo"

fixed thread title.



nice thread btw...

Here's the link for the newsletter that TamBay and I referenced:
http://www.tampasdowntown.com/newsletter.aspx?newid=67



TamBay - that was the name of a real estate company that use to operate around here - is that a coincidence?
- to post links, just click the icon that looks like a globe with a chain link below it on the reply box, you will have to allow pop-ups in order to get the URL posting cookie.

to post links, just click the icon that looks like a globe with a chain link below it on the reply box, you will have to allow pop-ups in order to get the URL posting cookie.

Or you can just paste the URL in. The icon is handy if you want to link inline and can't remember the syntax, but if you don't mind the URL being visible it can just be pasted inside the post. Such as:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=842

The Downtown Partnership makes it tough to link to some of their pages because they use Flash and frames, but with a little know how it's possible to link to most areas.

(Also, FYI there isn't a "URL posting cookie" and it should work with most pop-up blockers. )

Here's the link for the newsletter that TamBay and I referenced:
http://www.tampasdowntown.com/newsletter.aspx?newid=67



TamBay - that was the name of a real estate company that use to operate around here - is that a coincidence?
- to post links, just click the icon that looks like a globe with a chain link below it on the reply box, you will have to allow pop-ups in order to get the URL posting cookie.

Yeah, just a coincidence...that was my email address when I was a kid.

City Preparing To Polish Robles Park's Rough Spots

By JOSE PATINO GIRONA The Tampa Tribune

Published: May 10, 2007

TAMPA HEIGHTS - Robles Park could get an interactive play fountain, wider sidewalks, a community garden, entry plazas and a bridge across its retention pond.

The city and the nonprofit Mayor's Beautification Program have raised $375,000 for improvements at the 17-acre park just west of Interstate 275. The money came from the city and the F.E. Lykes Foundation.

The city will seek bids before setting project dates, city landscape architect Karen Cashon said. More money is needed to complete all of the goals, and the city is seeking grants.

"Obviously we can't build everything immediately," Cashon said.

The interactive fountain, which would be included in the project's first phase, would be on the park's east side, near the community building. The playground would be moved from the north side to near the community building, Cashon said.

The park, 3305 N. Avon Ave., was named part of Tampa's Greenprinting Initiative in 2003. The initiative helps neighborhoods upgrade their parks, said Andy Lutton, executive director of the beautification program, which coordinates the initiative.

Lutton said the Robles Park project has taken longer to plan, in part, because of the park's size, which can lead to higher costs.

Residents say they are pleased the park hasn't been forgotten. They questioned when improvements would begin and asked why garbage cans haven't been placed throughout the park. The retention pond has garbage along its borders, and a bike has been dumped in it.

LaToya DeSue, 28, said she takes her four elementary school-age children to fish and play at the park every other day.

She favors the improvement plans, saying the area needs to offer more for children. But she worries about how long the work will take, estimating two years.

"Overall, it is a good idea," DeSue said.

Reporter Jose Patino Girona can be reached at (813) 835-2110 or jpatino@tampatrib.com.

http://centraltampa.tbo.com/centraltampa/MGBNI7X0I1F.html

Hey everyone:

I am the co-founder of YARD OPS and Friends of Kiley Gardens. We have been working with the community and the city since 2003 in efforts to restore Kiley Gardens. In addition I am working with the Urban Charette League for this weekend's Art Tree at Kiley Gardens event. I am very impressed by the comments and thoughts everyone has to say about Kiley Gardens.

Here are some key facts about the park:

• Kiley Gardens qualifies for state and federal historic landmark designations. All our Mayor has to do is sign the applications.

(This means Tampa does not have to flip the entire bill!)

• As a historic landmark, Kiley Garden would be eligible to receive funding from private and public sectors, easing the financial hardship.

• In 1988, Kiley Gardens was given to the City of Tampa to be maintained and used as a public space.

• Kiley Gardens is Tampa’s first green roof/screened parking since 1988! Typical downtown parking consumes space, not allowing green or recreational space to occur. Kiley Gardens is a garden roof on top of a parking garage thus returning space to the public realm.

• Once rebuilt using modern green building technology, Kiley Gardens may reduce the Heat Island Effect. The Heat Island Effect increases summer temperatures in urban areas that lack green space because concrete absorbs then releases stored heat. Kiley Gardens may meet national urban green building standards which other cities are now adopting to make an environmental difference.

• The design of Kiley Gardens was not at fault for its deterioration. Construction administration of the project failed by planting the wrong specie of crepe myrtles and using inferior water proofing methods. The landscape was then neglected, amplifying damage to the gardens.

• Much of the limestone elements can be reused in the reconstruction efforts of Kiley Gardens. Modern methods of green roofing and waterproofing can allow Kiley Gardens to thrive well as a low maintenance garden with fountains.

• “Dan Kiley (b. 1912) is the only living landscape architect to have a landscape design bestowed with National Historic Landmark status. In fact, there are over 1,000 modern works of architecture listed on the National Register of Historic Places -- yet only one registered work of landscape architecture. Kiley’s work for the Miller family in Columbus, Indiana, (designed during the same period as Potomac Place) is a rare, surviving, pristine example of his design intent and sets a precedent for the registration of other such works.”
-This article was prepared by Peter Lindsay Schaudt, FAAR, ASLA, a landscape architect with a private practice in Chicago, IL (http://www.tclf.org/kiley_tampa.htm)


Please visit:

www.kileygardens.org

For this weekend's event or just show up. I will be more than happy to meet and give tour/talk about the park.

Thanks again,

Chris

Hi Chris, Welcome to the forums I am glad to have someone involved with Yard Ops on here. As you can see there are a few of us on here who really believe in saving the Gardens. I was afraid it was getting too quiet on the kiley front, regarding clean ups and events. I am glad to see this weekends event getting the press it has and I hope to make it out this weekend. Hope you can keep us updated on any progress or issues.

Welcome to the forum. It's always nice to see more locals participate here.

Thanks, I appreciate the welcome guys. Please spread the word.

My question is a bit different - how will the parkinggarage/gardens connect to Curtis Hixon (or whatever name they give it) park, because right now tehre is no connection to speak of.

^I think that the garage should be rebuilt as a single level under just about the entire park, all the way up to the new museums... Right now it is two levels, which makes it too tall relative to street level.

Don't ask me how that would be accomplished while the Rivergate tower is occupied though.

How did this turn out? Can you provide us an update, Urban Overhaul? :cheers:

'Trees' in park to spark change

By JANET ZINK

Published May 18, 2007

A year ago, city staffers armed with chain saws entered a park and hacked down more than 100 trees.

On Sunday, a group of artists plan to return some trees to once-celebrated Kiley Gardens. None of these, though, will spread roots.

The trees are creative works intended to spark awareness of good urban planning and the importance of green public spaces.

Dubbed the Conceptual Kiley Gardens Project, it's the first effort of the Urban Charrette, which formed about a month ago. Its mission: to explore ways to make Tampa a more livable, walkable city.

"Tampa has incredible potential for greatness, " said graduate architect Adam Fritz, one of the group's founders. "However, everyone needs to get on the same page and tap into a consistent vision so developers and decisionmakers can get going in the right direction."

Kiley Gardens' location is key: It neighbors Curtis Hixon Park, a focal point for the administration's redevelopment plans, including museum projects and Riverwalk.

The Urban Charrette's priorities include mass transit, bike paths, diverse housing stock, sustainable building and green spaces like Kiley Gardens.

"Kiley Gardens is a very celebrated park that's known internationally, and Tampa is lucky to have one of these gardens here, " Fritz said.

"We need to treasure that and use it as a model for future green spaces."

In the 1980s, landscape architect Dan Kiley designed the public garden to complement the design of architect Harry Wolf's adjacent 33-story circular office tower and cube-shaped pavilion.

But the park fell into disrepair, and roots from crape myrtles caused major damage to the roof of a parking garage below.

Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio earmarked $1.5-million to fix the garage roof and restore Kiley Gardens, which will be dismantled to make the garage repairs.

Last year, the city removed the crape myrtles. Steve Daignault, director of the city's public works and utilities, said he doesn't know what kind of trees ultimately will be planted at Kiley Gardens.

The crape myrtles planted years ago were not the kind Kiley had specified, Fritz said. The trees Kiley preferred would not have damaged the garage.

"We want the park restored and have them put in the proper crape myrtles, " Fritz said. "There's a way it can be fixed."

Meanwhile, conceptual trees will have to do. The trees, created by about a dozen local artists, will be displayed during a special event from 10 a.m. to noon Sunday.

Among those contributing their artistic talents is Urban Charrette member Renae Tvedt. She's leading a team of grade-schoolers, including her daughter, in the construction of a papier-mache crape myrtle.

"They studied Earth Day over the last couple weeks, so they want to do all they can to protect the environment, " Tvedt said.

After Sunday's event, all of the trees will be moved to the courtyard in front of the Tampa Museum of Art and then sold at an auction at 5 p.m. Thursday.

Proceeds will go to the nonprofit Friends of Kiley Gardens.

For more information, contact the Urban Charrette at urbancharrette@gmail.com.

Janet Zink can be reached at jzink@sptimes.com or (813) 226-3401.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/18/Citytimes/_Trees__in_park_to_sp.shtml

Could you imagine Tampa having a large stately Euro-style sculpture Fountain Downtown like the Buckingham Fountain in Chicago?

How about a fountain like Lake Eola's in Robles Park? It might help the neighborhood, maybe. At least it would be a bit of eye candy as you head into dowtown.

Tampa's hot. Somehow the sight of a fountain can cool you. I think the more fountains it has the better. Some interactive fountains, Some sculptured, some grand , some small, some synchronized, almost all lit up at night. I wouldn't mind sitting by a beautiful fountain downtown some evening drinking coffee and reading the newspaper. Something like that.


How about lighting up all the bridges like they do down in Miami or up in Jacksonville, using different colored lights. Wouldn't it look nice to see neon lights trace the crosstown through downtown or at least across the river.

These simple things I think could make a big difference for Tampa's image. It might make Tampa look energetic and lively.

Man, I miss Robert... Come back!!!

Possibly if the city buys the TTT lot a fountain could go there. A fountain is also being considered for both the Central Park and Museum Park Plans. Though not as grand as you describe. Also, you bring up a good point with bridge lighting. It'd be nice for one of the "Lights on Tampa" artist to do something with some of the downtown bridges.

The bridge lighting idea sounds fantastic.

As for fountains, we're good at ripping those out. See Tampa Museum of Art (soon to be) and Herman Massey Park (still closed for no real reason).

Yes, lets build fountains. Since we are in a budget crisis, why not fire all city employees too.

Yes, it's probably just wishful thinking(fountains and all). That's about all you can do in Tampa it seems.

Trying to be optimistic.

Man, I miss Robert... Come back!!!

I second that!

A large Fountain? Really? Also, seems highly irresponsible since we are constantly in a drought. Plus there are already several downtown - on Franklin St. at the City Center plaza, courthouse square, and the others listed by jonknee. We've also got the kiley gardens, we need to restore it simple as that.

THey won't restore the water in Kiley Gardens - that was a typical example of the art part of architecture overtaking the engineering part - it always leaked.

I for one think some good art/fountains (use reclaimed water) can be added - maybe on the 610 Frnaklin lot when the city buys it (cause there ain't never gonna be a buidin' there)

Let me have my job back before you talk about building fountains and lighting bridges

^Agreed.

I'm sorry to hear that a city employee was laid off. I hope things work out for you.





Let's assume the city is going to spend money on things like public art anyway, Fountains and bridge lighting should be top candidates. I don't think The Lake Eola Fountain gets shut down when rain levels are low. If a sulpture/art fountain gets turned off sometimes at least you still have the art to look at. Can't solar power be used to assist with lighting, I see little solor panels on top of 9ft poles all over the place.

I believe the Kate Jackson center fountains (Hyde park) are one of the two or so fountains that stay working during drought conditions. And I could give a flying flip about public art, we already have enough. Lets work on fixing the roads, fixing street lights, etc... then we can talk about this. It sucks that we have to lay people off.

:ohno: Thanks yall

Public art is okay when its something worth looking at... Some of these things on Bayshore don't really look like "art" to me. I do like the exploding chicken outside of Rivergate Tower though...very strange.

What are the chances of the old Con-Ag Plant property becoming a Park? Imagine if you will, A medium sized pond with an ornate arch bridge, like in NYC C.Park and elsewhere. Maybe along the new Cumberland ext encourage retail like a large bookstore and other with residential on top. It would be accessible to residents in Channelside and visitors as well. Of course the city can't afford anything right now.

I believe the Kate Jackson center fountains (Hyde park) are one of the two or so fountains that stay working during drought conditions. And I could give a flying flip about public art, we already have enough. Lets work on fixing the roads, fixing street lights, etc... then we can talk about this. It sucks that we have to lay people off.

THAT'S CORRUPT GOVT FOR YOU!

The bridges thing isn't bad. But we need a better arts program here in TPA. Not just what Iorio proposes but more new museums and a better city art museum than the piece of junk that is sitting on the river...wait that's said and done...I guess. More museums...that won't happen...I guess. Riverwalk...won't be done during Iorio's administration.
Now what happened in that one park with all those trees still infuriates me. I can't understand what stupidity got those trees to be cut down in the first place (my memory is not serving me well on this issue so excuse me).

Public art is okay when its something worth looking at... Some of these things on Bayshore don't really look like "art" to me. I do like the exploding chicken outside of Rivergate Tower though...very strange.
I like it too... I think it's rather good in fact.

Yes, yes, yes...I've always pondered about that chicken. Wierd...

I like it too... I think it's rather good in fact.

Well I heard Sykes wants to get rid of it. Sadly, it needs to be refinished and brought up to spec. Believe or not, the piece is actually called, 'Untitled' so I guess coming up with names is only natural. George Sugarman was the artist, he actually left a fondation behind to help young Florida artists go to schools and such. It's too bad we treat his work like crap, just like the work from the National Medal of Arts award winning Dan Kiley whose medal is actually the highest award of art.

I work in the Bank of America building so I occasionally walk over to Kiley Garden / Rivergate/ Sykes area. It pains me to see what's become of the park. Its like looking at a Roman ruin, you can imagine how beautiful it once was, but now its just derelict. Many people don't realize the glass bottom water channel that passes between the tower and the Pavilion used to continue over the garage stair wells so that sunlight would shimmer through the water down into the garage. Really neat. I very much hope that Tampa restores the the gardens to their original glory.

Now, as far as the homeless people go, something must be done to encourage them to spend their days elsewhere. Its not just Kiley Garden, but every downtown park. USF park is always overrun with homeless, and I, like many people , wont go to a park if I feel I'm going to be hassled by someone asking for change. With Riverwalk slowly taking shape, Pam Iorio has got to get on the delicate task of ushering out the panhandlers so the citizenry can enjoy it.

Public to help shape park
Downtown A former homeless hangout will get a makeover.
By KEVIN GRAHAM Times Staff Writer
Published September 7, 2007

DOWNTOWN

Residents and business owners will soon have their say in redesigning a downtown park mired in controversy when the city closed it two years ago.

Herman Massey Park shut down in August 2005 so that contractors for the Residences of Franklin Street condominiums could use it as a staging area for equipment.

Just before it went offline, Massey Park made news when police arrested several people there for feeding the homeless. Officers charged them with violating a city ordinance that prohibited serving food without a permit.

A chain link fence soon went up as developers began work on the Residences of Franklin Street, displacing homeless people who regularly used the park.

As construction wrapped up on the condo tower, equipment went away and residents moved in.

But the public park, at N Franklin and E Tyler streets, remained closed.

The first steps in reopening Massey Park should begin this month, said Linda Carlo, spokeswoman for Tampa's Parks and Recreation Department.

The city will assess the park and take inventory of what's there.

A meeting will then take place with "stakeholders," Carlo said - nearby residents and business owners.

"We will go to the public and say, here's what we know about the park," Carlo said. "Then we'll ask, what are you thinking?' What do you need?What are your desires for the park?'"

Carlo said the city plans to design several concepts for the park based on public opinion, which parks officials plan to solicit in coming weeks.

The city is trying to figure out a convenient time and place to hold a public meeting, which she expects about 30 to 40 people to attend.

Carlo said it's too early in the planning process to say when Massey Park will officially reopen.

Mayor Pam Iorio announced last month that the city will spend $1-million on the renovations.

Kevin Graham can be reached at 813 226-3433 or kgraham@sptimes.com Times staff writer Emily Nipps contributed to this report.

[Last modified September 6, 2007, 08:29:54]

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/09/07/Citytimes/Public_to_help_shape_.shtml

Group Seeks Fountain For Lake Kipling
By MARK HOLAN, The Tampa Tribune

Published: September 19, 2007

SUNSET PARK - Rome has the Trevi Fountain, and Las Vegas has the choreographed dancing waters outside the Bellagio Hotel and Casino.

Now the Sunset Park Area Homeowners Association wants to add a 25-foot-tall plume of gushing water to Lake Kipling.

'There would be a dual purpose,' said Marlin Anderson, the group's president. 'It would be beautification, and it would serve to aerate the water in the lake.'

The city plans $428,000 in water quality improvements to the lake, the scene of fish kills and source of neighborhood flooding. The project, which includes dredging silt and installing filters at pipes that drain into the lake, is scheduled to begin in March and be completed by July.

'We have to wait for that whole process to finish' before installing the fountain, Anderson said. 'But I'm confident we can get it done.'

The association has received an $8,700 estimate for a fountain, which would be lighted at night.

Anderson said he expects the association will hold fundraising drives for the project instead of dipping into its regular treasury.

'It's going to be a beautification for hundreds of thousands of people who drive by every day' on West Shore Boulevard, he said.

http://southtampa2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/19/st-group-seeks-fountain-for-lake-kipling/?news

Finally went and took pictures of the spring in downtown Tampa. One of the city's first sources of drinking water. It is at the intersection of Highland Ave. and Henderson Ave. along the riverpark/walk side. There is a building adjoining the spring that was the first Waterworks for Tampa, now housing the City's CCTV department.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t296/akb1710/DTTampaSpring.jpg
View from Sidewalk along Highland Ave.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t296/akb1710/DTTampaSpring4.jpg
Looking toward Highland Ave.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t296/akb1710/DTTampaSpring2.jpg

Kinda scary to think that once passed as the best place to get water from.


Nice pics though. :)

Thanks, I am sure not too many people know that this exists.
Although it is hard to tell from the picture, and all the crap floating on top, the water was very clear.

Not sure if people know/have noticed but the River Tower on Florida Ave. is now a park, River Tower Park. I am not sure when they opened it; there is not much right now, just a small parking area, a few picinic tables and a large field (where they were going to build the condos a few years back). The city website says there is a fishing pier, but I did not see it, nor did I walk the whole river area though. The area down by the river is pretty nice, there is no wall there so it is more "natural". There is not public opening to the tower, but I suppose that is a given.

Steve

Our parks need some serious investment in their amenities. Many of the parks we have in Hillsborough County in general suck.

Curtis Hixon Park Plan Gets Mixed Reception

By ELLEN GEDALIUS, The Tampa Tribune

Published: February 8, 2008

Updated: 11:57 pm

TAMPA - City council members got their first good look Thursday at plans for a new Curtis Hixon Park, and they didn't like everything they saw.

During and after the meeting, they raised concerns about everything from the design of the park benches to the project's $15 million price tag.

"A couple of years ago, I was comfortable with that because it's a nice amenity," Councilman John Dingfelder said during a meeting break. "But I can't in good conscience vote for a new $15 million park when we're talking about a $15 million to $20 million deficit and laying off hundreds of employees."

Several years ago, Mayor Pam Iorio announced plans to remake Curtis Hixon Park in downtown Tampa. The art museum building is being demolished and a new building will be constructed at the northern edge of Ashley Drive, next to a proposed Children's Museum.

The park, Iorio has said, will serve as Tampa's central park and as a community gathering place. People would be able to step off the adjacent Riverwalk to enjoy the park's amenities.

The city hired New York landscape architect Thomas Balsley to design the project. At Thursday's meeting, he showed the council updated renderings of his plans.

"It's been very carefully conceived to be a very active park," Balsley said.

The park would be built in two phases. The first phase, which carries a $15 million price tag, would include features such as a visitors' center, cafe kiosk, play area, dog run, fountain on Ashley and a shade trellis at a future pavilion building.

The second phase would include the glass towers, a mist fountain, the pavilion building, a garden and a restaurant. The second phase could cost an additional $5 million to $10 million.

Funding for the park would come from revenue generated by the downtown Community Redevelopment Area, though the city might need to borrow some money from its Community Investment Tax interest earnings and/or fund balances. Money from the Community Redevelopment Area is in question because of a recent state Supreme Court decision that might restrict how the city can spend money generated in these areas.

Regardless, finance director Bonnie Wise said, the city's goal is to pay for the park with money generated in the downtown area.

Iorio said this week the city should continue building, in part because the projects will offer job opportunities to many in the community as the country teeters on the brink of a recession.

As for the park's aesthetics, some council members particularly didn't like the five 50-foot-tall glass structures that each would contain a letter spelling out T-A-M-P-A. Each structure is expected to cost six figures.

"It doesn't look like a gateway. It looks like a barrier," Councilwoman Mary Mulhern said. "I hope we can lose those."

Dingfelder also questioned the necessity of the glass towers. Does Tampa have an identity crisis? he asked.

Balsley said the pillars would serve as a gateway announcement to town.

"The city has lacked a sense of, 'This is the place, this is the center,'" he said.

Councilman Joseph Caetano questioned whether the park benches would have dividers in the middle to prevent the homeless from sleeping on them.

Balsley said the benches would have arm rests to serve as a deterrent. Dingfelder wasn't satisfied and said some of the other benches looked like an invitation for the homeless to sleep there.

Dingfelder also questioned whether the fountains would use reclaimed water.

That would be impractical, parks department Director Karen Palus said, because the fountains are designed for children to play in.

That prompted council members to ask whether the fountains would be subject to the city's water restriction ordinance.

Though the fountains can be turned off and on whenever the city wants, they would not be subject to the city ordinance, officials said.

City administrators hope to ask the council to award the construction contract for the park next month, with an eye toward groundbreaking in late March or early April. Work would take a little more than a year.

No timeline has been set for the second phase.

Reporter Ellen Gedalius can be reached at (813) 259-7679 or egedalius@tampatrib.com.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/feb/08/me-plan-is-no-walk-in-the-park/?news-metro

I personally think the glass towers sound cool. I'm not sure if they're each worth six figures, and spelling out Tampa is kinda lame. I'd prefer them to be more art oriented, maybe somehow matching or complimenting the nearby Cube light.

This is what happens when the budget is as messed up as it is though but, even if they're not built right away, hopefully, there'd still be the option to build them in the future.

Easy budget fix, get rid of cafe/pavillion buildings, duh! Not what I think of when someone mentions the word "Park"

I do not really have a problem with the cafe...they would most likely be rented anyway which would provide revenue; not to mention that many great parks have small cafe type restaurants in them.

As for the glass "TAMPA" I would like to see the renderings before I pass judgment, but the do sound pretty cool.

Overall I like the idea, but at the same time we lost a great asset with the old park that was there, before the city ruined it by cutting most of the trees down and letting hte whole area go to crap. It would be nice to have a park like this, and $15m is not toooo bad for a great city amenity like this. A great park could unify that area of town, especially with the residential towers nearby and UT just across the river, not to mention all of the new museums that would be right there. Hopefully the design also includes lost of trees in addition to open space, it would be a nice oasis in the summer to wander around.

Steve

Yeah, but we are cutting so many things in the budget already due to the decrease in tax revenue, I'm sure we can shave a good deal off the park development budget by not including the buildings at this moment. It won't stop the development of the park and it can always be added in at a later date. If we have the chance to downscale current redevelopment of the park we should take it!

I agree to a point, but the money is not from the general budget (where Tampa's current budget problems are due to property tax changes we are all aware of), it is from the Community Redevelopment District funds for the DT area, so the funds could potentially be redirected to another project in the area, but presumably they could not be redirected to the general budget. I do not have a problem with the funds going to another project, such as transit amenities like bike lanes or bus service, or maybe redeveloping the street scape a bit to include some art (being as that is the "arts district") but at the same time this will be a nice addition to the area.

Steve

Here are the new plans:

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_contract_administration/programs_and_services/Featured_Projects/Curtis_Hixon_Images.asp

I'm not entirely sold on the giant, porcelain eggs... err, visitors' center and kiosks.

Overall I like it, but I really wish that there were more shade trees, or shade at all for that matter. The eggs are OK, but I think that they could have come up with a better design that would complement the new art museum rather than Big Bird....With that said, I think it will be a great addition to the city.

Steve

I think that it will be interesting. I think that it is kind of quirky, but it will have people talking. I do not mind the design or the park. I actually like it. Good job.

I wonder if tourists driving into town will wonder what the APMAT is

lol.

That is great. I never thought about that...

^^ Haha that is great!! Residents driving South on Ashley are ashamed that their city gov't has to constantly remind them of what city they are in. Tourists driving North on Ashley are confused by strange acronym!

^If that wouldn't encapsulate Tampa, I don't know what would.

FYI the newest Creative Loafing discusses 3 of the museum projects underway in the area and under the TMA they briefly discussed the fate of the Kiley Gardens...
And the fate of Kiley Gardens, cherished by preservationists as a landmark in garden design, remains uncertain. According to Dave Vaughn, Tampa's director of contract administration, the city is currently working on a plan for "repair and limited reconstruction" of Kiley. There is no schedule for the project.

http://tampa.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/extreme_makeover_museum_edition/Content?oid=394191

I like the reconstruction part! LOL, there would be less to reconstruct if the city had taken care of the park in the first place rather than letting it go to crap and cut down all of the trees....one of the only urban parks in Tampa's DT that actually had trees that were tall enough to be of use for shade.

Steve

The trees weren't right for the grid used though. Nor was the channels of water running through concrete, above a parking garage... The idea was great, the execution, not so much... It made maintenance needlessly costly and difficult.

Then I hope this "repair and reconstruction" can find the right trees to use and a fix or reuse for the water channels. I still like the overall layout of the park.

Tampa mayor urged to drop Hixon Park improvement plan
Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio and allies say it's too late to turn back now on improvement plans.
By Janet Zink, Times Staff Writer
Published February 17, 2008

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/17/images/large/Tampa_Shelve_2427063.jpg
[Ken Helle | Times]
Iorio plans to pay for the park over the next several years with $3-million per year in property taxes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TAMPA - Mayor Pam Iorio has touted a planned $15-million renovation of Curtis Hixon Park as the making of Tampa's "Central Park," a living room for downtown residents, the front door to new children's and art museums.

But some say it's an unwise expense at a time when Iorio has proposed laying off nearly 100 employees, mostly janitorial and security workers, for a savings of about $1.3-million.

"Put it on hold. We've got more important things to do than build a park," said council member Joseph Caetano. "What was wrong with Curtis Hixon Park? Was it that bad?"

Council member John Dingfelder said he'll vote against the project when it comes to the council on March 20.

"Everything should be on the table," said Spencer Kass, president of the Virginia Park Neighborhood Association. "If it's a choice between the park and police officers, I'll take the cops."

Iorio insists the park is off-limits for cuts.

She has said the park is vital for the success of the new museums, although museum leaders have said that's not the case.

She also points out that the city already has spent $3.8-million to make it happen, demolition of the existing art museum has begun to make way for it, and construction of some infrastructure, such as electrical work, is tied into construction of the two museums.

"We would just never change direction at this point. This is going to be so positive for the community," Iorio said in an interview last week. "That won't help with our operational budget even if it were stopped, which we don't intend to do."

Indeed, putting off the park wouldn't automatically dump $15-million into the general fund that is used to pay employees and run city services.

But it would add about $1.5-million a year to the fund.

Iorio plans to pay for the park over the next several years with $3-million per year in property taxes collected in a downtown special taxing district.

The district, created more than 20 years ago to promote economic development, allows property taxes collected by the city, county, Children's Board and other taxing authorities to go directly to improvements in the neighborhood. Thanks to significant growth downtown in recent years, it generated nearly $17-million a year in property taxes this year. Most of that money goes to pay off construction debt for the Tampa Convention Center. But the rest is available for other projects.

Iorio wants it for the park.

Dingfelder would rather see that money go back to the taxing authorities - the county, the Children's Board and the city - which would give Tampa about $1.5-million a year.

"That would alleviate the need to eliminate those 100 people," said Dingfelder.

Larry Parker, head of the city's firefighters union, which is at a deadlock with Iorio on salary negotiations, also believes the park should be postponed.

"That could be delayed for a year or two and still be done during her term when things are better," he said.

Preliminary figures show declines in property tax revenue from state tax reforms will leave the city with a deficit of nearly $16.8-million next year.

Iorio has suggested reducing that deficit by $3.4-million by making technological upgrades and consolidating and privatizing some services, which would result in laying off about 100 employees.

City Council members generally oppose that plan. But some still support the park project.

Christine Burdick, president of the Tampa Downtown Partnership, said the money being used to pay for the park is available because of private investment downtown that boosted property values in the special taxing district, but it will result in a place to hold festivals and other cultural events for the whole city.

"That's the people's park," Burdick said. "The citizens need a place where they can go to celebrate and be together."

Council member Mary Mulhern said "it's a little late" to reverse course.

And council member Charlie Miranda said that while scrapping the park sounds good politically, some contracts on the project are already in place and its construction provides an economic stimulus by creating jobs.

"It's pretty hard to back away from that commitment," he said.

So how best to save money?

Miranda offers this option: "Don't spend it."

Janet Zink can be reached at jzink@sptimes.com or 813 226-3401.

[Last modified February 16, 2008, 23:54:10]

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/17/Hillsborough/Tampa_mayor_urged_to_.shtml

This is just so typical of many city council members... I would agree that this project should have been postponed, but the decision should have been made before they started demolishing the existing museum!

Now, if they choose to pull the plug on this, we'll have ourselves a terrible looking vacant swath of land and we'll ultimately spend a fortune trying to make it work with the new museum when things actually do move forward.

It's just like the whole LEEDs agrument that came about with the new museum. No one on city council cared enough to ask until the 11th hour if the new art museum was designed to be LEED certified. When told no, some members actually wanted to go back to the drawing board yet again.

Oh wait... Let's spend another couple of million on a consultant to study whether or not we should move forward.... I hope the mayor prevails on this fight.

Welcome to Tampa.

City Council and County Commission are beginning to sound like a broken record!!! I agree that now that they have begun to tear down the museum that they should follow through with creating the park. But they can definitely cut back on all the amenities proposed and leave it as a nicely groomed open space!

^Problem is, this is supposed to be a centerpiece park. If you cut back, it's just another waste of open grassy space in the hot Tampa sun.

I got this email today from the Downtown Partnership, for those of you interested in learning more about the Curtis Hixon Park remodeling...

Tampa Downtown Partnership invites you to coffee with Mr. Thomas Balsley

Mr. Balsley is the architect of the New Curtis Hixon Park and we are very pleased that he has been able to make some time available to show and further describe the plans for the $15 Million renovation of this significant public space.

Where: Maestro’s Restaurant at the Tampa Bay Performing Arts Center (1010 North W.C. MacInnes Place)
When: Monday, February 26th at 8:30am to 9:30am
Parking: Parking as available on the arrival plaza
This is a FREE event. All who are interested are encouraged to come to this event. Please share this message with anyone you believe would benefit from this opportunity to learn more about the new Curtis Hixon Park

*
CORRECTION NOTICE
The previous notice had the wrong date.* Please note this event is on Monday, February 25th.
*
Tampa Downtown Partnership invites you to coffee with Mr. Thomas Balsley
*
Mr. Balsley is the architect of the New Curtis Hixon Park and we are very pleased that he has been able to make some time available to show and further describe the plans for the $15 Million renovation of this significant public space.


Where:*Maestro’s Restaurant at the Tampa Bay Performing Arts Center (1010 North W.C. MacInnes Place)
When:* Monday, February 25th at 8:30am to 9:30am
Parking:* Parking as available on the arrival plaza
This is a FREE event.* All who are interested are encouraged to come to this event.* Please share this message with anyone you believe would benefit from this opportunity to learn more about the new Curtis Hixon Park.
*

Wish I could go.

=(

There's no way I can go. I took a 1/2 day from work yesterday, and I just started! (doctor's appt)

Park Architect Outlines Plans, Answers Critics
By GARY SHEPHERD

New York City landscape architect Thomas Balsley’s designs can help transform a city wasteland into a lively, thriving, urban oasis.

A section of the east bank of his hometown Hudson River, for instance, was once “a nest of rotting railways and a haven for drug dealers and addicts.” After Balsley’s magic, 3-acre Riverside Park South filled with joggers and dog walkers and now “features marsh grasses and boardwalks that curl like ribbons,” according to an online NYC forum.

Thus, designing Tampa’s Curtis Hixon Waterfront Park is both a labor of love and business as usual for Balsley. “A city needs a very vibrant park and open space system to claim a vibrant downtown,” Balsley told a Feb. 25 downtown Tampa morning coffee crowd. His work is “a first step in establishing a great new civic space for downtown Tampa,” said Balsley.

“It’s almost a ‘duh,’ but Tampa does not now have such a space.”

Bounded by Ashley Street, the Poe Parking Garage, the Hillsborough River, and Rivergate Tower, the 3.5-acre Curtis Hixon Waterfront Park will become the central destination in the $40 million Riverwalk project, a 2.2-mile walkway to link Tampa Heights to Channelside.

The park is controversial. When Balsley spoke to Tampa City Council in early February, his plans got a chilly reception. Besides a hefty price tag during an economic downturn ($15 million for the park’s first phase, $5-$10 million more later), Council members worried about creating a homeless haven and questioned some specific design elements.

Apart from financing, Balsley addressed criticisms during his recent briefing to about 45 people at Maestro’s Restaurant at the Tampa Bay Performing Arts Center. The Tampa Downtown Partnership organized the architect’s talk; half the attendees took part in previous park stakeholder meetings at the same venue.

Balsley said an overall aim is to create a place where women and children feel safe to visit anytime. The park is aligned to provide great views of the splendid University of Tampa architecture to the west, and several park sites offer good stage locations for concerts and other events, said Balsley.

Among design considerations:
Sightlines have been designed with safety and security in mind.
On the park’s southern edge near Rivergate Tower, plans call for a restaurant and a long pavilion building to house City parks offices, bike rentals, and other interests.
The pavilion building will have a vegetation-covered “green roof.”
A café is planned facing Ashley Street. Also along Ashley, a visitor information center is part of “the social engineering that goes with the design work.”
In the park’s central section, plans include a shallow, lighted “mist fountain.” The “skim fountain” water feature – with surface water just one-quarter inch deep – can be turned off to create an open plaza.

Plans for “T-A-M-P-A” spelled atop huge individual pylons are being revised, possibly to align with themes realized during the 2009 Lights on Tampa event.
The main north-south pathway runs the length of the park, while westward pathways slope down several feet toward the river.

Zigzag mounds and valleys of green space will be interspersed with terraces of green space wide enough for family picnics. There will be garden spaces throughout the park.

A dog run is a key concept, as “dog owners are a constituency that will visit the park two times per day. It will help people meet one another; it’s a wonderful way to build social ties,” Balsley noted. The dog run will be in the park’s northwest section.

“Shade, shade, shade. We heard that so many times,” he said. Thus, trees and permanent shade structures will be throughout the park. “We’ve added trees as the design progressed,” Balsley said.

And, “we’ll have fantastic lighting,” from the glowing mist fountain, to feature, safety and accent lights, he said.

Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio enthuses that the park will be Tampa’s “waterfront crown jewel,” a signature outdoor setting and “a living room for downtown residents.”

Tampa has already committed nearly $4 million on design and other work, and demolition of the Tampa Museum of Art is making way for a new TMA – a cornerstone element, along with a proposed Children’s Museum.

The park would be financed at $3 million per year by bonding property taxes collected from a special downtown Tax Increment Financing district. That district now generates $17 million per year used for debt service on the Tampa Convention Center and other downtown projects.

Meanwhile, Tampa Museum of Art trustee and former chair Cornelia Corbett and her husband, Richard Corbett, in late February pledged the largest individual contribution to the art museum’s capital campaign, $2.5 million. The $33.5 million, 66,000-square-foot, three-story museum will be in the northwest part of the park. Construction is slated to begin in April 2008, with TMA opening in late 2009, just west of the site the Children’s Museum.

NOTE: Plans for Curtis Hixon Waterfront Park go before City Council on March 20.

http://www.tampasdowntown.com/newsletter.aspx?newid=69

It's frustrating when our city leaders hedge on building nice parks partly because they're concerned it will become a "haven for the homeless." Yah, that's a GREAT reason not to improve and/or build parks. While we're at it, let's get rid of street benches and wide steps, cuz they might sleep on those in the evenings as well. :ohno:

How about they try to address the much larger and infinitely more complex issue of how to help / handle the homeless situation, instead of poo-pooing public projects where they might congregate?

^^
Agreed. Tampa Bay's homeless problem just seems to be getting worse and worse.

It's not that I'm opposed to having a nice park, but it seems that we are spending alot on amenities we don't need, i.e. a skim park? Why are we putting in water features when it seems that we are perpetually in a drought? By all means let's build this park! However, I don't think it has been planned out very well, especially when it could be tied in with the Kiley Gardens, that the city has left to rot! Why not downscale the current Curtis Hixon Park plans and then push that money to renovating Kiley Gardens, you will get a nicer, larger connected park with the same amount of money!!!

I agree with most people that it would be prudent to do the basics now and pay for the luxuries later, but unfortunately I just don't trust our elected leaders to follow through on this promise....

Look at the streetcar for example, everyone was sold on the big loop system and planned phase II, but look at it now... They don't even want to give it a chance or follow through on their commitment to do phase II.

Another example, - Look at the Channel District. It will soon be FOUR years since the TIF district was approved. What city improvements have taken place? Almost none! Millions have been spent talking about doing this and that - but virtually zero projects have been started and/or completed in four years! Hell, the Downtown Partnership has had a much greater impact on the Channel District than the TIF has....

My fear is the same will happen with this park. If we don't force them (the city council) into doing this park the right way, we will be allowing this park to follow the same fate that most of city projects have been comprimised with.

I've sent the city council a letter in the past basically telling them outright that their actions speak louder than words - and that their actions are telling the developers and pioneers who actually want change and better standards that they stand alone in that goal. The city talks a good game, but they consistently fail to deliver.

Just look at the 2007 TIF budgets. Millions of dollars being wasted for administrative and consultant fees... It's incredible that the residents in those districts haven't demanded for full accountability.

^^
In short, our city is a big f**king mess. Partly due to the slumping housing market and government incompetence.

^^
In short, our city is a big f**king mess. Partly due to the slumping housing market and government incompetence.
I wouldn't call our city a "mess, more disorganize than anything else. If you want mess, look at my room! :lol:

Another example, - Look at the Channel District. It will soon be FOUR years since the TIF district was approved. What city improvements have taken place? Almost none! Millions have been spent talking about doing this and that - but virtually zero projects have been started and/or completed in four years! Hell, the Downtown Partnership has had a much greater impact on the Channel District than the TIF has....


Were the Meridian St. improvements part of the CRA plan or part of the crosstown plan?

Were the Meridian St. improvements part of the CRA plan or part of the crosstown plan?

The Meridian Street improvements were part of the Crosstown Xpressway Upperdeck. It was financed as part of the upper deck project and is paid for by the tolls.

I agree with most people that it would be prudent to do the basics now and pay for the luxuries later, but unfortunately I just don't trust our elected leaders to follow through on this promise....

Look at the streetcar for example, everyone was sold on the big loop system and planned phase II, but look at it now... They don't even want to give it a chance or follow through on their commitment to do phase II.

Another example, - Look at the Channel District. It will soon be FOUR years since the TIF district was approved. What city improvements have taken place? Almost none! Millions have been spent talking about doing this and that - but virtually zero projects have been started and/or completed in four years! Hell, the Downtown Partnership has had a much greater impact on the Channel District than the TIF has....

My fear is the same will happen with this park. If we don't force them (the city council) into doing this park the right way, we will be allowing this park to follow the same fate that most of city projects have been comprimised with.

I've sent the city council a letter in the past basically telling them outright that their actions speak louder than words - and that their actions are telling the developers and pioneers who actually want change and better standards that they stand alone in that goal. The city talks a good game, but they consistently fail to deliver.

Just look at the 2007 TIF budgets. Millions of dollars being wasted for administrative and consultant fees... It's incredible that the residents in those districts haven't demanded for full accountability.

Well said, Dudeintampa. Based on your remarks, it appears to me that you really thought this out. :applause:

I can't help but think of the movie, Field of Dreams, wherein one of the most memorable lines was, "if you build it, they will come." And as we all well know, you have to spend $$ before you make $$...

Here's one time where I see the ROI being worth the initial investment - even with all fiscal priorities considered. It's not easy, but it's certainly not going to get any cheaper later on. If they shelve it now, then just set it on the shelf with the rest of the other wonderful ideas of yesterday. It will never see the light of day because it will never be a priority.

I wonder what Tampa's representatives promised the developers before they risked $100s of millions to invest in the ghost town that was Tampa after 5:00p.m.. I'll bet a brand new landmark park was in order for "America's next great city"... ;)

Thomas Balsley said it best, “It’s almost a ‘duh,’ but Tampa does not now have such a space.” - at least not downtown. And maybe I'm just an optimist, but I have a feeling that if it gets built, we all are going to be very proud of it and will come to see a residual financial value years from now and for years thereafter.

It looks nice to me. :) Throw in a nice parking garage and a few tennis courts... a large public pool would be too much to ask for... :lol:
http://www.tampagov.net/dept_contract_administration/images/Curtis_Hixon_Waterfront_Park_Project/Picture14.jpg

...Something interesting I found about a fellow Florida metro. Maybe there are some useful tips from this. Sounds like a good idea though I'm not sure how they plan on financing.

50-Year Blueprint for Parks Is All Green

Scraggly canal banks transformed into scenic public pathways. Tree-shaded, pedestrian-friendly ''greenways'' replacing barren streetscapes. Bikeways and walkways linking far-flung neighborhoods to local, state and national parks. An inviting public space -- park, natural area, cultural or recreational facility -- within a safe, five-minute walk of every resident. Miami-Dade County today will roll out an extraordinarily ambitious parks and open-space master plan that aims over the next half-century to re-green and reconnect a community that has spent much of the previous 50 years carving up and paving the natural landscape. ''This is probably the single most important thing that Miami-Dade Parks and Recreation has been involved in in decades,'' said county parks director Jack Kardys. [Source: Miami Herald]

Really seeing is believing---The City of Tampa and Skanska U.S., master contractor for the Curtis Hixon Park/Tampa Museum of Art project, have made a “webcam” available for viewing the dramatic changes happening at the site. If you have not seen what’s happening, now you can view everything from the comfort of your favorite chair in front of your computer. To begin, click here (http://www.oxblue.com/pro/login.php). Then enter this information:

User Name: tampamuseum@webcam.com
Password: downtown

http://www.tampasdowntown.com/newsletter.aspx?newid=67

New Museum, Park Estimates Within Range

By ELLEN GEDALIUS

The Tampa Tribune

Published: March 22, 2008

TAMPA - Construction cost estimates for a new art museum and redesigned Curtis Hixon Park appear to match projections, reducing the possibility either project will have to be scaled back from existing plans.

Skanska, the general contractor for both projects, has given a guaranteed maximum construction price of about $24 million for the new Tampa Museum of Art. The guaranteed maximum price for the park is more than $12 million.

Knowing the guaranteed maximum prices of the projects is important to secure construction loans from banks. The Tampa City Council also needs the information when considering whether to approve the construction contracts.

The council is scheduled to vote on the contracts April 3. If they are approved, a groundbreaking for both projects will take place about two weeks later.

Steve Klindt, development director for the art museum, said the construction cost estimate came in within range. The entire museum project - including architect fees, moving, furniture, financing and demolition - is expected to cost $33.5 million.

The city is contributing $18.5 million of Community Investment Tax money, generated from a half-cent sales tax. The museum won't disclose how much it raised in pledges, but the amount is more than $7 million. Klindt said the museum has enough to start constructing the new 66,000 square-foot building.

"We have enough to cover that with a loan against the pledges," he said.

The museum is working with a consortium of banks for a loan, with Wachovia serving as the lead bank.

The park project will be paid for with city money.

Reporter Ellen Gedalius can be reached at (813) 259-7679 or egedalius@tampatrib.com.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/22/me-new-museum-park-estimates-within-range/

Tampa prunes makeover plans for Curtis Hixon Park
By Janet Zink, Times Staff Writer
Published Friday, March 21, 2008 10:36 PM

TAMPA — There will be no dog park, no misting fountain and no place to buy snacks.

Those bells and whistles, along with several other features, have been cut from the planned makeover of Curtis Hixon Park to trim millions in construction costs.

Mayor Pam Iorio wants the park to be a centerpiece of downtown and a central gathering place for all Tampa residents, and she planned to spend $15-million on the project.

But after getting itemized costs from Skanska construction, city officials are working on a scaled-down version with a total cost of $12.6-million. "We want to make sure we get a basic park, a complete park to begin with," said city contract administrator David Vaughn. "You're getting all of the geometry and physical shaping of the park, all of the ground surface elements, walk areas, landscaping, irrigation. What you're not getting, for lack of a better term, is the icing."

A price list of park features released Friday includes $1.3-million for a decorative fountain along Ashley Drive, $333,000 for a playground, $264,000 for the Riverwalk and $396,000 for a terrace with seating overlooking the river.

More than 100 trees also will be planted in the park.

The city will postpone construction of a dog park, a building to house canoe or kayak rentals, a snack bar, visitors center, shaded trellis and misting fountain near the river.

City Council member John Dingfelder, who has questioned Iorio on the cost of the park at a time when the city has laid off employees to save money, said he thinks the city should forego the $1.3-million fountain.

"If we opted for the less expensive mist fountain, you could then afford to add the dog park back in," he said. "Urban dwellers will have dogs, and they need a place downtown to let their dogs run free."

The contract with Skanska construction to build the park is slated to go to the council for approval April 3.

Skanska also put the price of construction of a new art museum at the northern end of the park at $24-million. The city will contribute $17-million to construction. Museum leaders will be responsible for the rest.

Demolition of the existing art museum began last month to make way for the park. It will be financed with property tax revenues collected in a special taxing district downtown.

Reach Janet Zink at jzink@sptimes.com or (813) 226-3401.

[Last modified Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:42 PM]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article427602.ece

Great, no dog park. :no: Just when I was hoping we'd get one.

"If we opted for the less expensive mist fountain, you could then afford to add the dog park back in," he said. "Urban dwellers will have dogs, and they need a place downtown to let their dogs run free."

Dingfelder is right. I may not particulary live downtown but I would LOVE to take my dog there. Getting a cheaper mist fountain doesn't sound like that bad of a sacrifice.

All I can think of is that they plan to eventually add it all anyway, so might as well go for the expensive mist fountain and hold the other things off. But still.....

Hmm, cutting those aspects of the park essentially negates its creation, at least in my book. If you want something to be a center piece of the community and an iconic meeting place for the city, then you have to plan accordingly and be innovative.

I don't think cutting those amenities negates the need for the park, unless you're going specifically for those things (which I'd imagine many people aren't).

Quite frankly, they could save even more money by cutting some of the other useless stuff, like the fountain and playground.

^ Yea, what's a playground good for in a park that you want families to go to?

Considering the fact that there is a larger, more activity-oriented park right across the river, the need for similar amenities becomes redundant. And, seeing as how this city already has an abundance of parks, creating a unique environment (none of which a dog run, playground, or fountain provide) should be a priority.

Considering the fact that there is a larger, more activity-oriented park right across the river, the need for similar amenities becomes redundant. And, seeing as how this city already has an abundance of parks, creating a unique environment (none of which a dog run, playground, or fountain provide) should be a priority.

This is the park that's going to be attached to the Children's museum. There are going to be lots of kids around and a playground just makes sense. Riverfront Parkis geared towards athletic facilities (soccer, baseball, tennis, basketball), not families and workers. Its playground is pretty much exclusively used by the Boys & Girls club.

Having a flash back to the last time I went to that park...two hoodlums were apparently aiming to steal my Z. How about some security over there? Another good investment, if Tampa really wanted to make general community use of that park.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2236/2442741463_df59acfa68_o.jpg

This would be great. A large park near the conagra site. Hopefully ConAgra will move out soon. Eventually the park could be lined with mid-rises and some high-rises with residents. offices and shops.

Some more of these downtown would be nice. It just cools you off looking at it. I know many say it would be a bath...or we're in a drought...but if other cities have many of them what's stopping Tampa.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2298412922_6a0dff7afb_b.jpg
Nashville

Some more of these downtown would be nice. It just cools you off looking at it. I know many say it would be a bath...or we're in a drought...but if other cities have many of them what's stopping Tampa.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2298412922_6a0dff7afb_b.jpg
Nashville

I agree with you, but you're talking about Tampa. People here have some sort of allergic reaction when talk is even brought up about spending money on public art and/or public use of water for beautification.

:cough: homeless bath :cough: :lol: :nuts:

Some more of these downtown would be nice. It just cools you off looking at it. I know many say it would be a bath...or we're in a drought...but if other cities have many of them what's stopping Tampa.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2298412922_6a0dff7afb_b.jpg
Nashville

Specifically, what's stopping Tampa are the political realities of this town. Tampa is traditionally a strange "working-class paradise." For a short while in the early 20th century, we played a role as a resort town. This changed as northern tourists gained access to Key West, Miami Beach, and the Gulf Beaches.

For most of the 20th century, this place was almost exclusively about industry. With a decent port and local access to agriculture, fishing, and phosphate mining, Tampa grew as a sort of industrial market center on the Gulf Coast. The fact that it is in a desirable area brought a lot of people who had hard luck in other parts of the country and wanted to make a fresh start in the sub-tropics (it's also brought a lot of scam artists, but that's Florida). The Mafia thrived in the 20th century in Tampa because of the large immigrant communities and working-class rackets that were available.

Tampa is gradually transitioning to more glamorous industries and a richer tax base as it grows and is "discovered." However, even with more money moving to the city, Tampa's continued growth depends on providing incentives through low taxes and a business-and-development-friendly government.

If you've lived here for 28 years like I have, you know that Tampa is on the verge of transforming from a large Southern factory town to a metropolitan hub and major city in its own right. The demographic changes are profound. Eventually there will be a large enough concentration of wealth that elaborate parks and sophisticated support for the arts and public works will be possible. For the time being, though, Tampa needs to pursue its strategy of private economic growth at the expense of municipal growth.

We don't have glamorous parks for the same reason that we don't have efficient public transit - with gas prices shrinking over the decades, relative to inflation, people were content to live far out of the city and commute into work. The interior parts of the city were blighted, and public transit was seen only as a necessary evil for the poorest people who could not afford cars. The concentrations of people living in the city proper, particularly near the core, have been poor, and wealthy people paying the lion's share of ad valorem taxes are reluctant to subsidize nice parks for the lower class. The city is also strapped to use its funds to improve infrastructure to deal with massive long-term growth.

The nicest parks, like Kate Jackson (which has an awesome fountain) and The Bayshore are in the wealthy neighborhoods.

Give it time. Tampa is growing up, but for now it's still an emerging neo-rust-belt town, not a "Big City" in attitude.

^^ Couldn't of said it better. Homelessness is definitely a deterrant to investment in public spaces in todays Tampa.

Wouldn't this be great to have in the area where the Con Agra factory is? Some kind of urban Central Park with open spaces and a small scenic lake.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1276/1338781132_ba71545e0f_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/44/137955474_e8eecf10c8_b.jpg

Curtis Hixon will be nice, but something like this would be a bit more relaxed.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2236/2442741463_df59acfa68_o.jpg

This location could link Channelside with the CBD.

Waiting On Park Improvements
By KATHY STEELE
The Tampa Tribune
Published: September 10, 2008

SEMINOLE HEIGHTS - City signs from 2004 tout coming improvements to Giddens Park. Completion was expected in March 2005.

An idealized rendering, on a now-faded sign, sketches an interactive water fountain, a picnic area, a playground with rubber pads, a sand volleyball court, a shuffleboard court and something called a "peace garden."

Phase two held the promise of a 3,500-square-foot community center, tennis courts and another playground.

Into that mix in 2006 a gazebo was added.

It was all part of an ambitious partnership of the city, the nonprofit Mayor's Beautification Program and the F.E. Lykes Foundation to upgrade 10 city parks at the rate of one a year. The foundation offered $75,000 for each park in the "greenprinting initiative."

Giddens, 5202 N. 12th St., was first up, but neighbors - some of whom donated to the project - are still waiting.

"It's been a long, tough road, and we don't believe anything anymore," said Sherry Simons-Genovar, president of the Southeast Seminole Heights Civic Association.

Last week, workers were patching cracks in the fountain's concrete pad. City officials say the water system is ready to go. The next step is installing a splash pad of green, yellow and blue.

As recently as June, residents were told to expect completion this summer. Plans for a neighborhood ice cream social were on hold pending the fountain but now have been canceled.

"It's functional," Debra Evenson, the beautification program's executive director, said of the fountain. "But it can't be turned on until final inspection."

That, hopefully, will be within a couple of weeks.

There is no sign of the gazebo; Evenson said it is a special order and the delay is not unusual.

"When I see it standing there, I'll believe it," Simons-Genovar said.

The Giddens project started with much hope and excitement but quickly ran into trouble.

The fountain, initially envisioned as a public art project, was scratched when residents and New York artists clashed on the design. The artists dropped out, citing higher-than-expected costs, and the city found a company to build the fountain without the art.

"That delayed this tremendously," said city parks and recreation director Karen Palus. "We came up with a compromise."

More than $300,000 has been spent on park improvements, with about $90,000 for the fountain.

Among the upgrades were fencing and a masonry enclosure for a trash container. In 2006, the East Tampa Community Revitalization Partnership recommended giving $25,000 to buy the gazebo, with the civic association raising additional money.

Palus said the gazebo's cost is closer to $50,000, and about $16,000 has been donated by Leadership Tampa Bay, which will volunteer to do some of the landscaping when the gazebo arrives.

There were misunderstandings about the project, said Candy Olson, board president for the beautification program.

"This was never meant to be, 'We swoop in and give this money to you,'" she said. The initiative was aimed at giving communities seed money and fundraising support.

But Simons-Genovar said after three years of waiting it was harder and harder to tap people for money. About $3,600 was raised from the group's Dog Days in the Park event and private donations that went to the beautification program.

There were good intentions, she said, but "I feel like from the very beginning that obviously the plans were too unrealistic. .... We had expectations built up."

Now the greenprinting initiative is all but over.

Robles Park in Tampa Heights was second on the park improvement list, with plans calling for an interactive fountain, a garden, entry plazas and a bridge across the retention pond. Evenson said the design is in the works and the project will be done.

The third and possibly last park to benefit from the initiative will be downtown's Curtis Hixon Park. Last week, the city council approved an agreement with the Lykes foundation to accept $1 million for the design and installation of fountains with public art.

Councilwoman Mary Mulhern thanked Norma Gene Lykes and the foundation for "sticking with us through all the bureaucracy it takes to get through these things."

It's not 10 parks in 10 years, but Evenson said, "We've done a lot more than we expected to do. Curtis Hixon is the final end of the foundation's commitment."

Reporter Kathy Steele can be reached at (813) 259-7652 or ksteele@tampatrib.com.

http://southtampa2.tbo.com/content/2008/sep/10/st-waiting-on-park-improvements/news/

Urban Garden Idea Sprouts
The Tampa Tribune
Published: October 24, 2008

TAMPA - Urban landscapes are often viewed as inhospitable scenes of concrete, asphalt and glass. City Councilwoman Mary Mulhern says it doesn't have to be that way.

In recent years, cities across the country have committed plots of land for agricultural projects aimed at turning trash-strewn vacant properties into bountiful gardens.

At Mulhern's request, the city council on Thursday held a workshop to discuss ways Tampa might be able to reconnect with the natural world through urban gardening.

"There seems to be a real ground-swelling of interest in this," Mulhern said.

Several organic farmers and food producers spoke at Thursday's meeting about possible plans for creating urban gardens on blighted properties across the city.

Christian M. Wade

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/oct/24/na-urban-garden-idea-sprouts/news-metro/

Interesting idea. I like it. Funny though, the first thing that came to mind were the cabbage fields that were grown in front of St. Isaacs Orthodox Cathedral in St. Petersburg Russia during WWII. Now that was an urban garden!

Steve

Added this to the Children's Museum and Museum of Arts threads.

http://www.tampagov.net/files/spotlight/20081017_cultural_district.pdf

Herman Massey Park reopens in downtown Tampa
By Emily Nipps, Times Staff Writer
In print: Friday, November 14, 2008

http://www.tampabay.com/multimedia/archive/00045/tct_park111408_45648c.jpeg
Herman Massey Park reopens with words from Mayor Pam Iorio, center in the background, in downtown Tampa. The iron fence around the park will be locked between dusk and dawn.
[GEN YAMAGUCHI | Times]

TAMPA — Once a little downtown corner mired in controversy, the quaint Herman Massey Park finally reopened to the public on Monday.

This time, city officials hope, the half-acre park will attract all types, including downtown workers who want a pretty place to eat their lunch, condo residents who need somewhere to walk their dogs, and joggers who simply want to stop and smell the donated roses.

"At one time, this was a pretty quiet park," said Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio, who spoke in front of the park's iron fence Monday. "Now we have this great pocket park for everyone to enjoy."

The 20-year-old park may not have been as quiet as the city preferred before closing it off with a chain-link fence in August 2005. In 2004, the park made headlines on separate occasions after people were arrested for feeding the homeless.

The homeless people who often slept in Massey Park felt even more alienated when the city fenced off the grounds, lending it as a staging area for the construction crews building condos.

After $83,700 in renovations — plus a new rose garden, courtesy of the Tampa Rose Society — the city staged a grand reopening, with Iorio and other city officials taking the first public stroll through the new Massey Park.

An ornamental iron fence now surrounds the park, and it will be locked between dusk and dawn. The granite benches, formerly cracked and damaged by skateboarders, were replaced and dotted with raised metal frogs that will put a damper on skater tricks. A dog waste bag dispenser is available, encouraging downtown residents to visit with their pets.

"The more active parks are, the better it is for the upkeep of the parks," said Tampa parks and recreation spokeswoman Linda Carlo. "And active parks tend to discourage behavior that is inappropriate for our downtown."

Emily Nipps can be reached at nipps@sptimes.com or (813) 226-3431.

[Last modified: Nov 12, 2008 04:23 PM]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth/article898568.ece

That's awesome I always wondered why that park was fenced off. Nice to see it open and cleaned up. There was also a foutain in the park, is that still there?

I was out snapping Pics today

Lake Park(North Dale Mabry) RC track
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/3069234914_037de38fce_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3166/3068397115_9ae40a9786_b.jpg

Hillsborough river between Fowler and Fletcher
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/3069237704_6eaf92ffbd_b.jpg

I like that last pic. It's been a LONG time since I've been out that way.

I used to race my RC cars there back when I was 16-17...

I didn't know it was there. I hadn't driven that far back until yesterday.

That course is also used for BMX occasionally. I've been a few times.

The zoo has a boat tour of the river that is really worth taking. Some family friends reserved it for a cruise a couple winters ago and it was really interesting to see Tampa from the river. It goes as far north as they can, until they get close to the dam. Its definately worth the trip, its not terribly expensive and really kind of neat when the weather is cool.

I used to race my RC cars there back when I was 16-17...

They had cars back then, Jason??? :colgate:

Wouldn't this be great to have in the area where the Con Agra factory is? Some kind of urban Central Park with open spaces and a small scenic lake.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1276/1338781132_ba71545e0f_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/44/137955474_e8eecf10c8_b.jpg

Curtis Hixon will be nice, but something like this would be a bit more relaxed.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2236/2442741463_df59acfa68_o.jpg

This location could link Channelside with the CBD.

I was looking at Dtown Atlanta online thinking that The Olympic Centennial Park is similar to Curtis Hixon park. We need a Piedmont type-park though which is what the two photos are of.

Wouldn't this be great to have in the area where the Con Agra factory is? Some kind of urban Central Park with open spaces and a small scenic lake.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1276/1338781132_ba71545e0f_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/44/137955474_e8eecf10c8_b.jpg

Curtis Hixon will be nice, but something like this would be a bit more relaxed.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2236/2442741463_df59acfa68_o.jpg

This location could link Channelside with the CBD.

Agreed! Or, if not a large urban park, then this site would be a good one for the new Rays baseball stadium.

There is a big urban park, but its so underutilized its a crime.

Here's a few hints:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2267/2484672648_335b582588.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3292/2484671528_6ddd194893.jpg?v=0

Though not as big, it is centrally located and has various amenities. The Dale Mabry side tends to maintain the image of being just an overgrown mess.

Al Lopez Park, it just seems underutilized because there are so many trees and you can't see into the park (but it still isn't very bustling). Still it could be landscaped better to give a better sense of security and visibility.

Al Lopez Park, it just seems underutilized because there are so many trees and you can't see into the park (but it still isn't very bustling). Still it could be landscaped better to give a better sense of security and visibility.

Well also the density of residential development around Al Lopez Park isn't ideal for a big urban park. You've got two stadiums and their parking lots, some midrise offices with their parking lots, some single family homes, Jesuit, and Dale Mabry commercial corridor.

Al Lopez is one of the best parks in the city becasue it does have so many trees. IMO Lake Park is nice too but of course well outside the city.

There is a big urban park, but its so underutilized its a crime.

Here's a few hints:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2267/2484672648_335b582588.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3292/2484671528_6ddd194893.jpg?v=0

Though not as big, it is centrally located and has various amenities. The Dale Mabry side tends to maintain the image of being just an overgrown mess.

I agree about it being underutilized mostly due to the reason I explained above.

About size, it really isn't that small. From North to South it is about as long as from Adamo to the Garrison Channel. Yes it is skinny, but still wider (or about as wide) as the area between the Crosstown and Meridian.

The zoo has a boat tour of the river that is really worth taking. Some family friends reserved it for a cruise a couple winters ago and it was really interesting to see Tampa from the river. It goes as far north as they can, until they get close to the dam. Its definately worth the trip, its not terribly expensive and really kind of neat when the weather is cool.

Yes, I took that tour maybe two years ago. Quite wonderful.

You guys should get out more. :)

There has been several million dollars worth of work at that park in recent years, including the Cancer Survivor's Plaza a few years ago... a new community center build about a year or so ago... and most recently a new fishing dock on the lake, expanded the dog park, new exercise stations along the jogging trail, and a new main playground... And in recent weeks, they have rebuilding worn bridges on the nature trails.

I go to Al Lopez Park 2-3x a week, since I live 1/3 mile away. It was a significant motivator for me to be so close to such a big park... Trust me, it's undergone serious improvements in recent years, and is pretty damn packed on the weekends with birthday parties and other group events. Over Christmas Break, it was swarming with people all day long, every day of the week. I guess that I should have taken some pics.

I agree with Jason. I think Al Lopez is one of Tampa's few park success stories. It is always packed particularly after 5 on week days and on weekends. It is loaded with families, people playing soccer, bar-B-ques, people exercising as well as a pretty nice dog park.

It used to be a mess, but the city really pulled through on this one. :applause:

I love how Al Lopez has turned out. In an effort to try to get myself fit again, I am going to try to hit the park up at least twice a week and take a jog along the trails. The best times being Tuesday and Thursday afternoons when I get off school. The last time I went there, I had bunches of fun with my sister on the playground.

Hi everyone! I'm in the town of Aalst, Belgium, just outside of the capital city of Brussels. I've been having a wonderful time sightseeing and spending time with my dad & stepmom. I've taken many photos and will share them with everyone when I get back.

In the meantime, please feel free to comment on this photoset. It's a beautiful park that is only a couple blocks from my stepmom's townhome. It really puts Curtis Hixon and other Tampa area parks to shame when you think about it.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2568.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2569.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2570.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2571.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2572.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2575.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2577.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2583.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2584.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2589.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2594.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2595.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2596.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2597.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2598.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2599.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x304/wslupecki/100_2600.jpg

Looks like a pretty and quiet park! I am hoping to get over to Belgium myself at the end of the year, it sounds like a beer lovers paradise!

Nice garden, unfortunately the TB climate won't support anything like that without three times the existing annual rainfall.

Tampa Eyeing Land For Park In Channel District
By JOSÉ PATIÑO GIRONA | The Tampa Tribune
Published: April 2, 2009

TAMPA - The city is trying to bring green to the Channel District.

It is negotiating to buy vacant property at Washington and 12th streets to build a half-acre neighborhood park, said Bob McDonaugh, the city's urban development manager for the Channel District and downtown.

The park will be at the center of the urban neighborhood and the city hopes to build an additional park north of Kennedy Boulevard and another in the south part of the district.

"Part of it depends on money; part of it depends on availability of land," McDonaugh said.

Once the city has the property under contract there will be a neighborhood meeting to discuss what type of park and amenities residents favor, McDonaugh said.

It would be the first park in the Channel District's 212-acre Community Redevelopment Area, which is bordered by the Selmon Crosstown Expressway to the north, the Garrison Channel to the south, the Ybor Channel to the east and Meridian Avenue to the west.

The city's redevelopment areas use property taxes raised in the neighborhood to help enhance the district. The 2009 budget for the Channel District redevelopment area is $3.9 million. Along with the Channel District, the city has designated community redevelopment areas in Ybor City, East Tampa, Drew Park and downtown.

The Channel District has about 1,600 residents.

Blake Hayden has lived in the neighborhood for nearly two years. He is pleased with plans for a park adjacent to his condominium. It would be another place in the community for residents and visitors to meet and interact, he said.

"It builds a sense of community," said Hayden, a board member of the Channel District community advisory committee. "It beautifies and greens the area. It increases property values."

Hayden said he supports additional parks as long as money is spent wisely and properties are valued fairly.

"The more parks and beautification, the better," Hayden said.

McDonaugh hopes to have the park completed by the first quarter of 2010.

Reporter José Patiño Girona can be reached at (813) 259-7659.

http://southtampa2.tbo.com/content/2009/apr/02/city-eyeing-land-park-channel-district/news/

^^
We definitely need more parks in that area. There's still too much of an industrial feel right now.

Looks like Novare dropped their project entirely for that site.

I don't like the location. It's too small to be trapped in between a bunch of development. I have a feeling it will be lost in everything there.

Looks like Novare dropped their project entirely for that site.

I don't like the location. It's too small to be trapped in between a bunch of development. I have a feeling it will be lost in everything there.

What location do you suggest then?

What location do you suggest then?
The main area should be west of Meridian Drive. An area that can connect Channelside with the CBD and also can be seen by more people instead of being boxed in from The Meridian from the south, The Place at Channelside and Victory Lofts to the east, and the warehouse west and north of it. And certainly when the economy rebounds, developers will be looking into destroying them warehouses and build whatever they want on them sites. Atleast you can start with a park without having something already bordering it.

I think the proposed lot is logical, given that it's very centrally located amidst the various condo and apartment buildings between Cumberland and Kennedy. I think the idea here, at least initially, is to develop a series of "pocket parks" for the residents living in the Channel District.

These wouldn't necessarily be high-visibility like having a park West of Meridian. However they would be useful to provide some sorely needed green space in the Channel District, which will help soften up the concrete jungle feel of the area. Also, having some spaces for meeting, resting, and walking dogs (and there are a LOT of them around Channelside) will help make the area feel more "liveable", for lack of a better term.

I'm all for it.

^^ +1

This seems to be the most logical place for a smaller park right now, and within 1 block to every residence in Channelside, except for the Seaport Apartments. Though I'm not a dog owner, I also agree with FLHawk in that at least a portion of the park should be dedicated to dogs.

With the nice "blank canvas" of the Meridian's Northern wall, it'd be nice if they could do some type of Cinema-in-the-Park thing on that wall at nights; just looking out from my place, looks like only one residence might even see any of the light at all. Some of The Place condos could look out from their balconies, and many from the Ventana, Grand Central, and Slade could as well.

Speaking of green spaces and paths, have y'all checked out the Channelside portion of the RiverWalk? Was at Columbia Cafe last night and the portion they're building there, which I hope is representative of the rest of the RiverWalk, is terrific. I wasn't excited about it at all before, but now I believe it's going to be better than almost all of us expected.

Looks like a pretty and quiet park! I am hoping to get over to Belgium myself at the end of the year, it sounds like a beer lovers paradise!

Make sure you go to Brugge. That place is wonderful. If you can hop on the bullet train from Brussels to Paris or Germany, that will be another plus.

I think the proposed lot is logical, given that it's very centrally located amidst the various condo and apartment buildings between Cumberland and Kennedy. I think the idea here, at least initially, is to develop a series of "pocket parks" for the residents living in the Channel District.

These wouldn't necessarily be high-visibility like having a park West of Meridian. However they would be useful to provide some sorely needed green space in the Channel District, which will help soften up the concrete jungle feel of the area. Also, having some spaces for meeting, resting, and walking dogs (and there are a LOT of them around Channelside) will help make the area feel more "liveable", for lack of a better term.

I'm all for it.

Me too. I like the proposal.

Here's idea for a Central-type Park for Channelside and Downtown where there would be multiuse greenspace. Curtis Hixon will be a bit too structured. I think a space like this would be great for throwing the football, walking your pets, sailing your model boat in a pond, hosting events, etc.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3599/3412078426_59125dd04d_o.jpgActually a rough mix of Downtown and Al Lopez

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3186/2962485199_0666ea69d4_b.jpg
I'd be nice if some of the streets along the park were lined with shops and restaurants like this street in Lakeland.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2236/2442741463_df59acfa68_o.jpg
I know I've posted this map before, but since the discussion came back up...

^^
That would be wonderful. Again, Channelside still has too much of that industrial feel, even despite the recent development. A nice and large park where those useless R/R tracks are right now would definitely be a plus for the city.

What do you all think of connecting Washington and Whiting from Dtown to Channelside. Also Nebraska from north to south?

I really hope that a large park is being considered for this area. I think it would be a great commons area for the business district and Channelside.

^^
Oh yeah. It would be a huge plus for our parks system. It would also further reduce the industrial feel of the area. Again, much of Channelside right now is still too industrial in my view...

FlaNatv, how do you take a picture on google maps?

For the Map picture. I copied and pasted a screen shot of a Google map into Paint. Then added my ideas. Then uploaded it into Flickr. Then added the Flickr URL here.

I have a better idea, since we're being creative here... They're going to rebuild the Selmon through downtown in a few years anyways, right? Well, bury the sucker (cut and cover, not bored tunnel) for about 2/3mi, where it slices through DT almost n/s... Then create a series of parks running e/w, to create one long park for events... Not only would the grid be reconnected, but the addition of such a park would create a link between both parts of downtown. Valuation and development would obviously increase around the new string of parks.

It would be here... (or the strip of blocks just north of it)
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2886/downtownparksdraw.jpg


Btw, the little green strip along Twiggs St is a pretty important piece of parkland over the longterm for the neighborhood. It's known that whenever the top of Ybor Channel is redeveloped, a linear park/boardwalk will be built around it, eventually connecting to other linear parks beyond. This strip would connect that piece with the existing path along Meridian, which will soon be linked to the Tampa Riverwalk at Channelside Dr and Meridian.

^^
Nice pipe dream. Like they're ever going to shove the Selmon underground. :lol:


Seriously, that thing will be flooded in two weeks you know....

^Huh? No it wouldn't flood... Unless the pumps all broke... lol

The part that would kill it before it ever started is actually trying to figure out where to take the road from above grade to below grade on the west side (on the east side, it's easy enough). It would probably have to be done west of the river to have enough distance for the tunnel approach, which make the costs go through the roof...

^^
Yeah, and good luck making an eight lane highway below grade too. Ain't gonna happen as long as I live.

In Tampa's cramped downtown, it might be easier. And it would suuure as hell look better. But whatever, it ain't ever happening. It probably wouldn't even be a good idea, for some reason presently beyond my reasoning.

The problem is our underpasses are totally underutilized. Look in most of Asia and they regularly buildout under their elevated roads/train lines. From Japan to Bangkok they always allow building houses, offices, etc., below elevated roads, because its more space efficient. You could still do that park, and maybe utilize the underside of the road for something practicle.

The Selmon has covered parking - in Florida that is very practical. It is also landscaped in many areas - actually pretty nice to walk under, especially in the summer. THe problem is what is on either side of the shaded areas - most often surface parking

That's why J's park idea makes sense. But as we all know God has ordained that surface parking lots are sacrosact in Florida.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2651/3703245110_2fde25415e_b.jpg

I was out here on Wednesday and it's a nice park. However, it would be much nicer if UT could put down some pavers(a concrete sidewalk would be fine) along the river and some park benches instead of having a muddy path..

I know we've had this discussion before...there needs to be restrictions on the painting of the seawall. It just looks tacky. I'd rather have zero, but as a compromise couldn't it be restricted to the lowest section (no higher than 8ft from the average water level)?

I thought that was actually a parking garage and not a seawall, I might be mistaken. Yeah, I agree though, no more graffiti on the wall and bridge. Be cool if they could put big black and white pictures of Tampa along there, since it will be part of the Riverwalk.

And realized that the sky would almost all be blocked out if Venu was built in that picture.

I know we've had this discussion before...there needs to be restrictions on the painting of the seawall. It just looks tacky. I'd rather have zero, but as a compromise couldn't it be restricted to the lowest section (no higher than 8ft from the average water level)?

No. It's not tacky, it is tradition. It is one of the few things that actually distinguish downtown in a colorful way. Lots of cities have boring river walls. We have a river that people actually use and decorate.

^Yeah, I like the graffiti. It's all college names of schools that have come to compete with UT, so it's not like it's gang signs or anything. ;) :poke:

The wall could use a pressure washing, that's for sure.

^^Exactly the graffiti is fine, whats worse are those ugly water marks from water running down the seawall over time.

Jason, don't you think burying the Selmon is economically impossible for a state that doesn't even want a 1 cent tax raise to pay for rail? Its a great idea and I totally agree but, I have no faith in the residents of Florida to recognize something worth their money as the tax payers disagree with anything that costs money.
IMO the most feasible thing is to decorate it, make it attractive, and change its designation from Expressway, to Parkway and create parks under its path and around it.
THAT would accomplish what you're talking about in downtown Tampa.

The cost for burying the crosstown would be huge! I wouldn't even support that I mean with the amount of money spent would could probably build a new highway in a part of Tampa where it's needed.

Yeah, the cost for burrying the Crosstown would be too big. Not worth it. They could sex it up with some brick like they did to I-4 in Ybor. That would be cool.

The cost for burying the crosstown would be huge! I wouldn't even support that I mean with the amount of money spent would could probably build a new highway in a part of Tampa where it's needed.

Or a nice starting point for rail.

Yeah, the cost for burrying the Crosstown would be too big. Not worth it. They could sex it up with some brick like they did to I-4 in Ybor. That would be cool.



Or a nice starting point for rail.
Probably both, the cost really would be that big, I agree though a remodel is whats needed.

How about merging the Crosstown and Brorein Street in the downtown area and turn it into a ground level street like Biscayne Blvd. in Miami. After crossing East Kennedy or Nebraska it could be elevated again.

That would be a terrible idea, can you imagine the backups?

That would be a terrible idea, can you imagine the backups?

I don't know if it really would happen. As far as I know, most of the people using the crosstown use it to commute to and from downtown Tampa. I don't think there is that much thru traffic from Brandon to St. Pete to cause huge backups. Especially after the Ybor-connector to I4 is built I don't see a problem. It would work like a city street wthat indeed has a lot of capacity to move traffic. If the street is designed well and being built into an urban fabric, the seperation which the connector right now causes, would be gone.

I don't know if it really would happen. As far as I know, most of the people using the crosstown use it to commute to and from downtown Tampa. I don't think there is that much thru traffic from Brandon to St. Pete to cause huge backups. Especially after the Ybor-connector to I4 is built I don't see a problem. It would work like a city street wthat indeed has a lot of capacity to move traffic. If the street is designed well and being built into an urban fabric, the seperation which the connector right now causes, would be gone.
You'd be surprised how much traffic comes from Pinellas on the Crosstown. There is however the solution of re-routing the crosstown as shown here along willow avenue. There are quite a few empty lots and cheap looking houses along the route. The crosstown could merge onto I-275 meanwhile in in Channelside it could begin at Kennedy and of course the Connector would serve as a connection. However as you can imagine this would create a nightmare scenario on I-275, they would either have to really widen it or build an elevated portion in which the crosstown would go over I-275 and merge back with the crosstown at some point. In addition you could also do what I've shown in the second pic which is create a highway extension into downtown/Ybor that I've called I-375. This would help relieve traffic caused by re-routing the crosstown. There are many empty lots up here as well, demolish the pink projects and you have plenty of space from there. This would be pricey too though, maybe not as much as the tunnel but quite expensive. But it would be cool if the new "Malfunction Junction had Texas style flyovers. :D Hell the second pic would have been better if they planned that while doing the junction last time, they could have done the connector and improved the interchange at the same time. This is as well a dream but a somewhat realistic one, a tunnel is the best solution however.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u1/MK727/CrosstownRe-route.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u1/MK727/CrosstownRe-route2.png

Nice draw ups but I'd be opposed to that I-375 unless it's underground. It would cut off Ybor from the CBD much like how were talking about the Crosstown cutting the CBD off from Channelside, Forum, Convention Center, Harbor Island etc.

BTW, I-375 is already in St. Pete, so it'd be I-475. :)

Well let's face it Ybor is already cut off from downtown, there is some distance between them. As opposed to the Crosstown cutting through downtown which really cuts downtown and does have an effect. Besides all the land freed up from the pink projects could serve as a park or some kind of development. Tunneling the highways underground would really be too expensive in Tampa, it would also be painfully slow so this is the next best thing.

^Ybor and the CBD are currently seperated buy the Tampa Park Apts. and the abandoned Central Park projects. All it takes is major redevelopment like the Central Park plan for that to change. It may seem a ways off now but it'll happen in the future...

As far as cost of burrying the highway goes, I don't see why it couldn't be done. This would be a federal road if it was indeed I-475. The burrying of the Crosstown meanwhile is a state road so not only is there less funding avaliable but it's costlier.

To compare, I-10 is burried through downtown Mobile. That's Mobile.

Connecting I-475 from the Selmon to MALFUCTION JUNCTION???? Are you crazy?!?!? Trust me, all the "improvments that went into that area to ease the mess would not only be killed, but you'll probably be talking about a accident there every day due the many exits. Looking at MJ, there is so much that could had went different with it and pretty much all the improvments occured because the city and county acted too slow to fix it.

If there is anywhere that needs a park, it's Channelside. Pretty much every district in Tampa has a park except for Channleside. I've driven past this area a couple times and believe that the corner of Twiggs and Channelside Dr. would be a great place to start for a new park. Only a block from a trolley station, pretty near where much of the growth has occured in Channelside, would likely be connected to the Ybor Channel project, and is remotely close to Ybor. And there isn't much anything there at the moment except for, if I can remember correctly, a medical type kind of office.

Connecting I-475 from the Selmon to MALFUCTION JUNCTION???? Are you crazy?!?!? Trust me, all the "improvments that went into that area to ease the mess would not only be killed, but you'll probably be talking about a accident there every day due the many exits. Looking at MJ, there is so much that could had went different with it and pretty much all the improvments occured because the city and county acted too slow to fix it.
All the improvements that went into the junction were a waste as it is because they only did short term improvements. Just watch in a decade or so it will have to be re-done.

All the improvements that went into the junction were a waste as it is because they only did short term improvements. Just watch in a decade or so it will have to be re-done.
Totally, if they were smart and I would had been fine with this, they would had bought the houses northeast of the junction and made the improvments after. Having 2 exits coming together in such a short time is just idiotic. And they could had avoided a off-ramp completely from I-4 North onto N 21st St. if they made a lane coming off I-275 on to I-4 going onto E 13th St,

Yea exactly, this is just a vision, the crosstown will never be re-routed, not in our lifetime for sure. If there is ever enough money it should be put towards more important things.

You'd be surprised how much traffic comes from Pinellas on the Crosstown.

I know, but most of that traffic is heading toward downtown not contimuing to Brandon, same from the Brandon area, where most people are going to downtown, not out to Pinellas. The number people who actually go beyond downtown wouldn't cause a traffic problem on a ground level boulevard.

Look at San Francisco. They did not the Embarcadero Freeway after the earthquake. They opted for a ground level city street instead and it works just fine.

I've never been to San Fransisco but I do know people who have or used to live there. Traffic is terrible over there, at the same time not everybody commutes to downtown although a I'm sure many do. San Fransisco is also much more dense and has mass transit, in addition they have a very efficient grid system. Then you have Tampa, a very spread out city where you have most of the work places spread out along I-275 and I-4. If you've ever driven through the artery roads around tampa it's a slow moving mess of long poorly timed lights. The highway is always pack too so getting rid of one would really have bad consequences. Then you will have a clogged road in downtown Tampa where pedestrian friendliness will be like a miracle.

You'd be surprised how much traffic comes from Pinellas on the Crosstown.

I think that there is a lot of commuters from Brandon to MacDill so those folks would hate the idea of the expressway ending.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u1/MK727/CrosstownRe-route.jpg

Instead of this idea, I think that Willow should be 4 lane and have a full interchange with 275. 1) Better access to Davis Island and TGH. 2) Connect 275 and the crosstown. 3) Additional access to Downtown(maybe the Laurel Street bridge would get used). I think an interchange is planned for Blvd & 275 which is not great, for one reason, it will add traffic through UT.

BTW, Great drawing with the map!!!

I think that there is a lot of commuters from Brandon to MacDill so those folks would hate the idea of the expressway ending.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u1/MK727/CrosstownRe-route.jpg

Instead of this idea, I think that Willow should be 4 lane and have a full interchange with 275. 1) Better access to Davis Island and TGH. 2) Connect 275 and the crosstown. 3) Additional access to Downtown(maybe the Laurel Street bridge would get used). I think an interchange is planned for Blvd & 275 which is not great, for one reason, it will add traffic through UT.

BTW, Great drawing with the map!!!
I agree, in this map I was just showing another possibility of having the crosstown out of DT. I generally agree with you and think what you said is an excellent idea. What's even better is then we'd have a beltway around downtown.

Willow as an expressway might work, but I was meaning it as a reg 4 lane road, it would serve the area well.

Ah it would serve the area better than whats there, but an expressway connection would work very nicely.

Willow has historical buildings on it and some pretty decent new architecture as well. I do not think anyone would let that road be used for it.

Willow has historical buildings on it and some pretty decent new architecture as well. I do not think anyone would let that road be used for it.
Actually the west side of willow only has a couple structures that are worth saving, the rest are insignificant.

Some of the warehouses on the east if rehabbed would be excellent buildings. You ever spent a lot of time around there?
PLUS there are some newer structures on that street. The people who just built there wouldn't be happy about having to relocate.

Tampa Mike & FF it wouldn't be I-475 because its an intercity highway, those are denoted with odd numbers. It'd probably be I-575
I-275 is even because it goes through Tampa and St. Pete. Hence why I-175 and 375 are both in downtown St. Pete.
I heard originally that Ashley was going to become either I-175 or 375 back in the day.

Some of the warehouses on the east if rehabbed would be excellent buildings. You ever spent a lot of time around there?
PLUS there are some newer structures on that street. The people who just built there wouldn't be happy about having to relocate.
I've driven through there but not really spent time. The proposed path has minimal impact on most of the historical buildings. In fact the small area in which it does a decent solution is to build a overpass over it like in the pic. The rest are single family homes and only a handful of new small cookie cutter houses.Those warehouses could turn into some decent commercial buildings.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u1/MK727/WillowAveExpressway1.jpg

The current and proposed path, I'm still working out the Interchanges, especially the I-275 interchange that will be a challenge. Currently it's a six lane highway and will have 8 lanes at the ends.

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u1/MK727/ProposedPathWillowExpressway.png

I didn't realize that you were intending for it to be done right!!!!
That is how L.A. has their highways in certain areas, and if they construct it without cutting corners then its an awesome great idea. However if done wrong it will be disastrous.

Not to be an overly negative person, but this hypothetical kind of reminds me of a lot of Atlanta's interchanges. Mainly, crowding lots of exits and entrances close together. Quite frankly they suck, badly. You get too many tourists, you don't have many of those do you, getting extremely confused and making terrible decisions at the last moment. All of the downtown connector is like this, lots of lanes combined with lots of exits and lots of crashes. Additionally, the 90 degree nature of the connect could lead to two things, very high land acquistion costs due to needing a ton of room to make it safe and gently. Or two, a ton of accidents due to jackasses trying to take a tight on/off ramp at too high a speed. Kind of like the way the old Ashley exit was from SB 275. Remember how it was tight in every way, and it screwed traffic too because so many people used the thing. If this interchange was rearly used I'd say it might be worth it. Unfortunately, it'll get used a lot, and so should really be a bigger real estate hog.

Well the main issue with his proposal is that North BLVD is getting an exit and entrance ramp. If not Willow is about half a mile between Armenia/Howard and Ashley which isn't too bad, that's a better spot than Blvd, as Blvd is RIGHT before the Ashely Exit. But too many exits do cause lots of traffic and confusion.
An exit every mile isn't that bad.

I didn't realize that you were intending for it to be done right!!!!
That is how L.A. has their highways in certain areas, and if they construct it without cutting corners then its an awesome great idea. However if done wrong it will be disastrous.
Yea problem is that the photos aren't up to date and I can only do my best judging from streetview photos of how to make this. But yea if this was ever done and it was done right it would be extremely beneficial.


Not to be an overly negative person, but this hypothetical kind of reminds me of a lot of Atlanta's interchanges. Mainly, crowding lots of exits and entrances close together. Quite frankly they suck, badly. You get too many tourists, you don't have many of those do you, getting extremely confused and making terrible decisions at the last moment. All of the downtown connector is like this, lots of lanes combined with lots of exits and lots of crashes. Additionally, the 90 degree nature of the connect could lead to two things, very high land acquistion costs due to needing a ton of room to make it safe and gently. Or two, a ton of accidents due to jackasses trying to take a tight on/off ramp at too high a speed. Kind of like the way the old Ashley exit was from SB 275. Remember how it was tight in every way, and it screwed traffic too because so many people used the thing. If this interchange was rearly used I'd say it might be worth it. Unfortunately, it'll get used a lot, and so should really be a bigger real estate hog.
You're right I think the best solution might be to Start a long entrance ramp and the speed on the connector would be about 45mph. So given the chance to slowdown it could work. Making it work with the new I-275 layout will be difficult.


Well the main issue with his proposal is that North BLVD is getting an exit and entrance ramp. If not Willow is about half a mile between Armenia/Howard and Ashley which isn't too bad, that's a better spot than Blvd, as Blvd is RIGHT before the Ashely Exit. But too many exits do cause lots of traffic and confusion.
An exit every mile isn't that bad.
Yea thats why I am trying to figure out how to do the ramps on I-275. I'll continue this in the Tampa Transit Vision thread as that seems to be better.

Lots of older cities have those type of "surprise here's the exit/entrance" interchanges and can really catch people out. I nearly got killed my first time in DC because as went up an on-ramp thinking "no problem, there'll be a merge zone at the top," I was wrong. There was no merge zone, the on-ramp dumped directly into the through lane and I nearly had the left front corner of my car taken off by a Brinks truck. Those situations only lead to two things, accidents and slower traffic flow. And slower traffic flow goes against the point of dedicated high volume highways.

My idea to fix it is similar to how they have already done the Downtown East entrance ramp for Southbound I-275. If you look the lanes are separated until after the River and they also have their own lane until Armenia.

I was at Disney(mickeyland is legit in this example) and saw many examples of shade trees that thrive in FLORIDA urban environments. I know I saw some sweet gum and sycamore. There were others pictured here which I don't know the name of. More of these around downtown would be nice.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2663/3845293389_6f6e93f126_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3528/3845291473_c7ea375af4_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2627/3845289733_5110b5cbbb_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2675/3845287997_f95a31691b_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3846075120_bfc58e8a6b_b.jpg

But that might explode the myth that TB is just full of palms and is in a tropical climate, when in fact its in a sub-tropical environment. Local leaders couldn't have that. Besides, it might make it more pleasant for locals and tourists to get out more to walk around and see more. You can't have that happening.

But that might explode the myth that TB is just full of palms and is in a tropical climate, when in fact its in a sub-tropical environment. Local leaders couldn't have that. Besides, it might make it more pleasant for locals and tourists to get out more to walk around and see more. You can't have that happening.

I agree with you. There is some hope. I spoke to a Tampa City-Urban Forester not long ago who said they were trending torward planting new varieties of trees. We'll have to see.

Tampa City Urban Forester! Thats an actual job? Where do I sign up?!

^^You probably can't afford the pay cut or loss of responsibility.

I just got back from Chicago. Man am I disappointed in Tampa.

Yeah, but that is really an apples and oranges comparison. Chicago is much more established as a big business hub, has much more money, has a different climate, has a vastly different tax structure, has much more money, is better connected internationally, and has much more money. I've never thought you could compare Tampa reasonably with NY, Chicago, Atlanta, LA, Frisco or Seattle. All are traditional commercial hubs that have native large companies and industries that support entire regions.

Though it would be nice if TB could get with the picture and perhaps plant a shade tree or three.

I just got back from Chicago. Man am I disappointed in Tampa.
lolololol... That happens to me every time I come back here from somewhere like CHI, DC, DEN, ATL, etc...

Yeah, but that is really an apples and oranges comparison. Chicago is much more established as a big business hub, has much more money, has a different climate, has a vastly different tax structure, has much more money, is better connected internationally, and has much more money. I've never thought you could compare Tampa reasonably with NY, Chicago, Atlanta, LA, Frisco or Seattle. All are traditional commercial hubs that have native large companies and industries that support entire regions.

Though it would be nice if TB could get with the picture and perhaps plant a shade tree or three.

Chicago isn't that much older than Tampa; Tampa was first founded in 1849, Chicago in ~1837. Ontop of this most of Chicago was built ~1880 due to the fire which we all know about. The thing that disappoints me is that all this great innovation has been done and is available for Tampa to take and improve on. Have they? If Tampa studied Chicago with all the things they have on the river, parks, incentives, stuff like that Tampa could be way way way way way way better. As Jason says, its really the fault of our community leaders, They are unable to lead this great region to being more than just a beach tourist destination. Our parks blow compared to just about every medium to large city in the country.
Is there a reason Plant Park doesn't have a river walk component? Sounds like bad planning to me.

But Chicago is the key city in the Midwest. It is arguably the second most important commercial city in the US and probably the most important trading city, as Canada is our number one trading partner. The TB area a whole is basically a retiree community with limited national commercial impact beyond the consumer level. It goes back to commerce, how many national companies are HQ'ed in the area versus the first tier cities? Tampa may only be a few years younger than Chicago, but Chicago grew much quicker and became much more important due to a variety of reasons, largely geographic and commercial.

The money just isn't in Tampa. Sure the occasional transplant like Steinbrenner spends some money in town, but how much is spent in NY? I can't tell you the number of clients I used to work with who lived in Tierra Verde, but home was Des Moines and most of their donations went to their "hometown." At this point, the die is largely cast. Institutional inertia keep everyone relative to everyone else.

What TB ought to do is make the best of what the area has to offer. If that means focusing development into smaller tracts, so be it. If it means better spending priorities, e.g. radically improving parks and the general streetscape, than they should. My neighborhood just spend about $30-$40m on re-doing all the sidewalks and intersections around my area. It was well worth it. They used native trees and made an effort to greatly improve walkability (shade trees!).

Is there a reason Plant Park doesn't have a river walk component? Sounds like bad planning to me.
Really funny you mention that... I was on walkabout downtown last week and it dawned on me that the west bank of the river is actually a great spot for more riverwalk.

Look at a sat image... It would be EASY to build a riverwalk along the west bank from Kennedy, all the way up to the MLK Recreation Complex/Rick's on the River area. Almost all of the distance is already parks or schools, and much of the length already has a sidewalk with plenty of room to widen it into a proper pathway.

Erect a snappy little ped drawbridge connecting Curtis Hixon Park to Plant Park, and blammo now we would start to have a ped network linking downtown to the surrounding neighborhoods.

Hopefully the current riverwalk project will just continue on, with something like this becoming phase 2. Connect these two riverwalks to the already wonderful Bayshore path, and...

Another big difference between Tampa and Chicago (or many other places outside of the South) is the climate and fauna. Before the mid 1900s most people did not want to live in Florida due to the heat of summer and the bugs. DDT and air conditioning made the state attractive to live in year round. So while the two may be near the same age on a superficial level, they are worlds apart when it comes to technology that makes the city attractive to live in.

Steve

tampasteve is exactly correct - Florida did not really open up to development until after the invention of air conditioning. For reasons already stated it is not a fair comparision to compare Tampa to Chicago.

Really funny you mention that... I was on walkabout downtown last week and it dawned on me that the west bank of the river is actually a great spot for more riverwalk.

Look at a sat image... It would be EASY to build a riverwalk along the west bank from Kennedy, all the way up to the MLK Recreation Complex/Rick's on the River area. Almost all of the distance is already parks or schools, and much of the length already has a sidewalk with plenty of room to widen it into a proper pathway.

Erect a snappy little ped drawbridge connecting Curtis Hixon Park to Plant Park, and blammo now we would start to have a ped network linking downtown to the surrounding neighborhoods.

Hopefully the current riverwalk project will just continue on, with something like this becoming phase 2. Connect these two riverwalks to the already wonderful Bayshore path, and...

Yeah, that's great!!!!!!!!!!

I agree about a Riverwalk being on the other side of the river and it would be stupid if the city never does move towards doing so. But there will be no ped bridge linking the two sides, not south of I-275 for certain. Same reason why there won't be one connecting Harbour Island to the Riverwalk, there is already 2 bridges not that far connecting both sides. Why waste the money for something that is already there?

What needs to be done is a park along Bayshore Dr. A lot of people already use the Baywalk (guess the sidewalk deserves a name) in the morning and it would seperate the whole "wall feel" when more developers start building alon the stretch. It's obvious that if the city doesn't really cap any development on Bayshore, which would be stupid if any action does happen, that developers are going to build more condos and skyscrapers when the market is there again. And seriously, its one of the few that actually deserves a park. The problem with implanting a park on Bayshore is much of the stretch is already filled with houses and condos that there isn't much space to build a park. The best option is the vacant lot on the corner of W Hyde Park Pl. and S Parker St. But I can't remember if that is the land for the Four Greens Inn or not.

Chicago has the parks it does because of community activists and leaders who risked everything to protect them. If not for Marshall Fields Grant Park would've been developed. Marshall lost all his money and reputation protecting that Park and look how great it is now. Its more than just money, its people willing to put their money on the table to make their city greater, something Tampa has traditionally not have because of the mentality of the people here.
To be honest weather is the only thing keeping me in Tampa.

^Yeah, but downtown Tampa has parks. Nothing as big as Grant Park of course, but again, you can't really compare Tampa and Chicago.

Tampa actually has a couple of very nice block parks in downtown. Lykes especially but also the park just north of the county center (Mesa?) and the one that the Crosland project is supposed to be built next too. Not to mention the Curtis Hixon park under construction, Cotanchobee Park, USF park, Plant Park, Bayshore (which is pretty much just one long park, and the city is planning to buy up park land in Channelside soon as well.

Actually, when I visited Chicago one of my few complaints (trust me, very few, I love Chicago), was that it lacked park land off the waterfront. Obviosuly the land is more in demand in Chicago then here and it would cost more to make a block park in downtown Chicago, but Chicago could use something like a Bryant Park in NYC or even a Lykes Park like here in Tampa.

Plant Park is not that great of a park, there's a lot they need to do to it to make it better, how about sidewalks along the river bank? I like Plant Park but it could be A LOT and I mean A LOT better.
A large park downtown would be really nice, these "Pocket Parks" don't do the job for the environment. But its not just the parks. Public works in Tampa blow.
Think about how much nicer the new Curtis Hixon would be if they would've actually designed for people, not for Florida Aesthetics.

Since we're talking about Tampa getting ideas from Chicago, Don't you wish we had a Buckingham fountain. It would be a destination. A landmark. Visual Refreshment. I remember the editor of the Trib did a big piece about Tampa needing a landmark fountain. I think there is a plan for a fountain in Curtis Hixon but I don't think it could be called majestic in any way.

Perhaps we're thinking to big for little old Tampa. We're not cool and hip like Orlando or Miami. Yes, I am being sarcastic.

I wish someone would compare Tampa's riverfront interactive potential with Melbourne (Yarra R), Chicago (Chicago R), Miami (Miami R), Fort Laud (Los Olas R(US 1 tunnels under this river)). I think all of the rivers are about the same width. One thing interesting about Chicago is that the street level is elevated above the river, which is probably not a bad idea in certain places, for our low lying downtown.

Since we're talking about Tampa getting ideas from Chicago, Don't you wish we had a Buckingham fountain. It would be a destination. A landmark. Visual Refreshment. I remember the editor of the Trib did a big piece about Tampa needing a landmark fountain. I think there is a plan for a fountain in Curtis Hixon but I don't think it could be called majestic in any way.

Perhaps we're thinking to big for little old Tampa. We're not cool and hip like Orlando or Miami. Yes, I am being sarcastic.

I wish someone would compare Tampa's riverfront activities potential with Melbourne (Yarra R), Chicago (Chicago R), Miami (Miami R), Fort Laud (Los Alos?). I think all of the rivers are about the same width. One thing interesting about Chicago is that the street level is elevated above the river, which is probably not a bad idea in certain places, for our low lying downtown.

According to the majority of kids from my High School Tampa is about the uncoolest place you can live. They all ended up at UCF. You might be right there. Our downtown is kind of lame compared to downtown Orlando.

I know what you mean, When I was a teen, my parents moved from east Polk to Orlando. Maybe it was because I was young, but Orlando had energy even back in '85. We first lived near downtown and migrated to the east side while my Dad worked at UCF. I thought UCF was great with it master planned ringed campus. When I later moved to Tampa in '96 I was appalled at the contrast. USF was dark night and UCF is bright day as far as campus planning and landscaping. The Busch Gardens area, surrounding the areas major theme park was a dump. I'm sure that left horrible impressions of Tampa on visitors. It has gotten much, much better since then, but more attention to detail is needed.

Tampa needs better marketing. How can Tampa seem cool and hip like some of it's Florida neighbors. Strip clubs, bars, and cigars are not marketable and not, thankfully, representative of what Tampa's all about. I think Tampa needs to be marketed to the family and the young singles crowd at the same time. Create a sense of "this is an exciting place to be"

People are too damn cheap and there is a lower class mentality around Tampa Bay. It kills me here about how people complain about things that are actually going to improve the quality of life here. Over the years I've learned a ton about the history of Tampa Bay and it's just sad to see this metro and where it's at. Honestly we are on the same level as Daytona Beach when I went there it seemed just like here, but going to Orlando it's like a different place completely. I just can't figure out why there isn't a push to improve this metro more, I do know that once school is over for me I'm out of here.

On the subject of parks Pinellas County has some decent parks. I think downtown St. Pete is the best example in Tampa Bay with its waterfront parks, it's kind of why I have so much love for St. Pete because honestly it's the only city in this metro that at least does somethings right. It's really the only place I feel has any true urban vibrancy, and might use it's potential.

The new Curtis Hixon park with its water features is supposed to be our community gathering place. Not to get all psyhological, but the design of DT-Tampa doesn't really push a sense of community. Its too scattershot and disjointed to really make you want to explore the place. The problem is the waterfront. If they had decided 50 years ago, that it would only be parks and no buildings along the waterfront, you would have seen a drastically different DT today. Or if they had done the opposite, keep the central core open for a park. Now, its dodge this building or that just to get to either the USF park, or the Pioneers Park or the Curtis Hixon park, they don't feel integrated into one continuous entity.

I think Tampa gets a bad rap for being "uncool". I think a lot of it is aspiring it to be more than it is. It has decent clubs, lots of good bars and restaurants, an unending parade of insanely hot women (who are much more friendly than those up north, so appreciate it), and reasonable job prospects. If you want to take over the world of business, move, but if you want to make an OK living Tampa is great. Tampa is a great midsized city within a decent large metro area. Its not a major business hub, its a service hub. Too many people want it to be more than it is. Settle down Sheriff Behan.

I don't quite understand why many people are bashing Tampa and fin it uncool. Its always eays to criticise the place you live at and think, other places are better. But how much do you know about the other places?
Plus, people should realize what they have and not take it for granted. Open your eyes and be grateful and you see your own city in a much nicer light.

Of course does Tampa Bay need improvement, but so do other cities. I lived in Clearwater for 3 years and - besides the shortcomings - still loved it. I liked to visit Orlando, but was always happy to be back in Tampa Bay. I also liked Miami, but I never experienced as much ruthelessness and road rage as in Miami. I didn't feel welcome as a visitor. As for Tampa Bay, I love the hospitality I always encounter.

Tampa Bay has tons of potential. BUT the people are too F**King cheap to maximize its potential. I am starting to believe Tampa will be a failed city because of the cheap mentality and what 275 said. People complain about things that improve the quality of life in the city. WTF is that all about? Talk about an unappreciative mass. But then again just look at the immaturity of the recent town hall meeting.
St. Pete has a better park scene then Tampa 100% for sure.

I'm considering moving to Georgia or anywhere else other than Florida after I graduate from HCC. I'm so sick of our leaders in the local and state level showing their incompetence and avarice. We have some of the WORST politicians in the US.
Gstoltz, I went to Germany when I was 14, I also happen to speak enough German to converse and I speak it well enough to be easily understood by the locals, If I had the choice Tampa or Germany, I'd take good Ole Deutschland anyday.

Totally agree guys. What people don't understand is that cheap price means cheap quality. They complain about anything exceeding what THEY would want to spend on it. But if you told them that you would give them a house that was $12,000 but had poor quality, they would say they want something bigger and better. So you build them a house that is bigger or better, but ends up being over $100,000 and they'll take it. So it's very hypocritical of them to complaim about anything "expensive" when they wouldn't do the same in a personal situation.

I do agree that St.Pete has the upper advantage when it comes to parks and public spaces. The parks along the waterfront is one thing I like about St. Petersburg. But while St.Pete does has the waterfront parks, it doesn't have that much block parks. You have Williams Park which is a awesome park because it does have a memorial and couple statues, but besides that there isn't much around. Mirror Lake is a nice park, but it isn't up to its full potential. It would be very smart to ask any developers who plan to develop around the lake to fund renovation and redeveloping the park. And a park that was as long as Straub Park for example somewhere away from the waterfront would be idle in the city.

Feel free to move away from Tampa anytime you want - we'll be fine without you.

Its funny you mentioned Germany. As I've been searching for either a perm. design position or at least some temporary work, the best responses I've been getting have been from Germany. In the past year I have been transitioning from residential design to exhibit/promotional/retail and there are tons of creative firms in Germany that are starting to ramp up with the economy. I have an arrangement with one for future work and I'm working on three more. So its an option.

I don't think TB is a failed area, but it is largely populated with very cheap people. But you have to realize that wages haven't changed in years, yet the cost of living (read flood, property, and windstorm insurance) have drastically escalated. Now that property prices are getting back down to actual values, you might start to see opinions change.

Another thing is that the TB area has traditionally gotten most of its inflow of new residents from the midwest. The midwest is very "salt of the earth" and pretty cheap generally. This then gets compounded when they arrive and property is "overpriced" in their opinion (even though its really not) AND, insurance is unbelievable compared to back home. When I told people here in Atlanta what my property/flood/windstorm was in Florida, they cannot believe it. I can't believe people are bitching about paying $60 to register their cars, I pay about $250 a year and I drive a 2008 Honda Civic.

I think a lot of us commenting here see Tampa as having a lot of potential. Yet it consistently under-achieves. People/Leaders here have a "it's good enough" attitude. World-Class just isn't something that is reached for. It seems to me that the leaders working for Orlando for the past 20-30 years or so have been over achieving, helping to turn lakes, cow pastures, and orange groves into a place of lush, vibrant energy and excitment. Tampa was probably exciting in the 60's but has been running on inertia until the last 5 years or so. I think it's started to crank up some. I wonder what the Orlando leadership could have done with the Tampa area in the past 20-30 years. Tampa has a lot of natural beauty and amenities Orlando wish they had. I remember from decades ago a story in the Sentinel where a post card maker put Halifax's waterfront downtown on a postcard that said "Orlando". The story basically said, "if only" that was Orlando's waterfront. But Orlando has made the most of the natural beauty they have and done well.

Does Orlando still have more visionary leadership than Tampa? If so can Tampa leaders sign up for classes there?

...and I think that parks( including statues, monuments, fountains, etc) and street/public landscaping is a big part of Orlando...

Feel free to move away from Tampa anytime you want - we'll be fine without you.
Tell that to the people moving out of the region by the thousands.

Tell that to the people moving out of the region by the thousands.

And they'll be back as soon as the jobs return. It's just cyclical.

^Seriously, they aren't coming back... Others will of course replace them, we all know that, but the people leaving Florida these days are pretty disenchanted, and even downright disgusted.

And from what I've seen the two groups leaving are generally folks in the 55-70 range and the 25-35 range... In other words, the people leaving are folks who recently retired here or moved here to retire and discovered that no, Florida isn't that great of a place to retire anymore... Or, the folks leaving are young professionals and families who either can't find a job here that pays them enough to make it, or they lived here their whole lives, started traveling to other cities and then decided that yes, the grass really is greener on the other side... I've had so many friends move out of state in the past 3-4 years that I've literally lost count (it's over 20), and every one of them cited precisely these two reasons. Either the job market sucks, or Florida in general sucks...

Regardless, we've got thousands of people fleeing the state every month, moving elsewhere and then telling everyone they know that they just moved out of Florida because it sucks. That certainly isn't the kind of 'marketing' we need to bolster our floundering state economy.


and btw, PRAY that we don't get another hurricane Andrew in this state any time soon, because I doubt the state's image would ever fully recover.

^ Like I said, they'll be back.

^^No we won't. I know at least 100 former TB residents who now live in NY, LA, Denver, Atlanta and Seattle. All are in roughly my age group, 30-40, all make in excess of $100K, all in senior management positions, none of whom ever intend on going back. It was a great place when we were in college, but now that its time to keep score, we'd never think of returning until at least retirement. Unfortunately, you see more upscale retirees heading north now as well. A friend of mine does lots of interior design work in Asheville and at least 20% of her clients are former Floridians. My inlaws plan on working a couple more years, then shutting down their firms and moving to Atlanta because they love Buckhead and all the things to do.

Hence the recent AP story:
More people moving out of Florida, Census shows

The Associated Press


Published: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 at 1:29 p.m.
Last Modified: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 at 1:29 p.m.
ORLANDO - For the first time since the 1940s, more people moved out of Florida last year than new residents moved in from other states as the economic slump has halted years of explosive population growth in the Sunshine State.

Florida reported a net loss of 9,286 domestic residents between July 2007 and July 2008, according to U.S. Census data released this month. But that loss was offset by a net gain of 77,427 new international residents, mainly as immigrants arrived from Latin America and other points abroad.

The loss of domestic residents who once flocked to the Sunshine State's beachside condo towers and palm-tree lined neighborhoods also was offset by more births than deaths during the year, according to the Census data.

The Census data looked at population changes from July 2007 to July 2008 in Florida, which currently has 18.3 million residents and is the nation's fourth most populous state.

It was the first time Florida has experienced a year-to-year loss in domestic migration since the University of Florida's Bureau of Economic Research began keeping records in 1972. It also was probably the first dip since shortly after World War II, when soldiers who had come to Florida for training returned home after the war, said Stanley Smith, the bureau's director.

"This, I think, is much more fundamental and related to the national economic situation and the recession," Smith said.

The state's 9.5 percent unemployment rate is the highest since 1975, which translates into fewer jobs to attract new workers. A nationwide housing slump also has cast trouble for out-of-state residents seeking to sell their homes to move to Florida.

Growth has been the economic engine of Florida for decades. But Smith said he doesn't expect any significant population growth in the state until the national economy rebounds in a year or two.

And when a recovery does occur, Florida's growth isn't likely to reach the heights it did annually this decade, he added.

"Those were abnormally high," Smith said. "The economy was booming. Florida was adding a lot of jobs, it was easy to get loans for mortgages, and Florida's construction industry was booming."

Factoring in the net gain of 77,427 new international residents, Florida had a total net migration gain of 68,141 people last year. Last year's loss in domestic migration also was offset by the 235,241 births compared to 176,811 deaths Florida recorded between July 2007 and July 2008.

But the total migration gain was paltry considering that for the past eight years Florida averaged a combined annual gain of 293,000 domestic and international residents.

"Our No. 1 industry here is growth, whether you like it or not," said Richard Crotty, mayor of Orange County, which is home to Orlando.

Some Florida residents, like David Oldread, left for professional opportunities.

Oldread and his family left the Orlando area last July so he could take a radio station manager's position in western Massachusetts with better prestige, pay and growth opportunity. It also didn't hurt that he was from there and still had family there who would be close by as his children, ages 7, 5 and 2 grew up.

"My wife and I both love Florida. We enjoy the lifestyle ... being able to do things year-round," Oldread said. "But a lot of people who grew up in the Northeast seem to migrate back at some point."

The migration slowdown to Florida seems to be part of a nationwide trend. The Census Bureau reported Wednesday that the rate of people who moved declined from 13.2 percent in 2007 to 11.9 percent in 2008, the lowest rate since the bureau began tracking in 1948.

Some policy makers see a silver lining in the growth slowdown.

"We can take a deep breath and do some better planning for the future," said Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer.

Dan Pennington, a community planner for 1000 Friends of Florida, the nonprofit group that calls itself the state's growth management watchdog, said Florida's growth pattern during the high migration years was "atrocious."

"We were just literally sprawling houses as fast as we could across the Florida landscape," Pennington said. "Right now, people are still in a state of shock ... now the tables have totally turned."

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20090422/BREAKING/904229961?Title=More-people-moving-out-of-Florida-Census-shows

Let's get back on topic...

Agreed, as this is the biggest dead horse in this forum.

^You've been gone too long. You forget that beating dead horses is a longstanding tradition in these parts.

lol...

If Tampa would get a Central Park in the city. where would the best possible location be? I always thought about this. Would it be between Downtown and Channelside or would it be smart to develop one not so thought upon like north of I-275? Just to start some convo in this forum. haha

If Tampa would get a Central Park in the city. where would the best possible location be? I always thought about this. Would it be between Downtown and Channelside or would it be smart to develop one not so thought upon like north of I-275? Just to start some convo in this forum. haha

I thought Tampa's 'central park' is going to be the revitalized Curtis Hixon Park along the Hillsborough River and Ashley Drive in downtown???

^^No we won't. I know at least 100 former TB residents who now live in NY, LA, Denver, Atlanta and Seattle. All are in roughly my age group, 30-40, all make in excess of $100K, all in senior management positions, none of whom ever intend on going back. It was a great place when we were in college, but now that its time to keep score, we'd never think of returning until at least retirement. Unfortunately, you see more upscale retirees heading north now as well. A friend of mine does lots of interior design work in Asheville and at least 20% of her clients are former Floridians. My inlaws plan on working a couple more years, then shutting down their firms and moving to Atlanta because they love Buckhead and all the things to do.



Sorry to bring this back up in this Forum, but 74% of the USF Alumni live in the Tampa Bay area.(Im one of them).

Sorry to bring this back up in this Forum, but 74% of the USF Alumni live in the Tampa Bay area.(Im one of them).
I'll be adding to that in the next year.

About Curtis Hixon being our Central PArk, I don't see it like that really. It certainly will be a nice and large park, but when I think of a "Central Park" I think of like NYC's Central Park that really is in the center of skyscrapers. Something like that in Tampa would work good. But I'll say this, Tampa does have a far ways to go before having anything started. But it wouldn't hurt planning things like this out.

I think the ConAgra area is a natural site for a large Central Park along Meridian. It could give the Channelside residents a large greenspace as well as the CBD and Tourist/Conventioners to the south and west.

...Central Park idea from earlier in this thread...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2236/2442741463_df59acfa68_o.jpg

I went to the Cotanchobee Park in front of the History Museum recently, and I have to say it's pretty darn nice. Especially with the Columbia Cafe having their outdoor seating overlooking the park and channel, it's a nice spot.

The park feels a bit isolated with the Forum making a bit of a barrier, so we could use some stuff built on the lots to the north of the Museum and to the West of the Forum, with some retail on Old Water street, but it's still a neat area.

With the Sail Pavilion and the restaraunts inside the Marriott, that strip is showing some life along the Riverwalk.

^ Agreed. I walked down there Saturday and did some reading. Pretty decent foot traffic too--bikers, skaters, dog walkers, tourists, etc. I don't mind it being isolated behind the forum, it's a nice quiet spot with a great view.

The thing is you don't have to directly mimic anyone else's solution. You should learn from other cities' mistakes and success, but the ideal would be a Tampa centric design solution. You know that certain things are fixed assets/liabilities that aren't going anywhere. Those being all existing large structures and the ConAgra. Everything else is in play. Designs should be based on this. There are probably 25 good alternatives for more public green spaces in the DT/Channelside area. The key will be getting them harmonized.

That instersection off of Central where the I4 and I275 on ramps are in downtown would be a GREAT area for a fountain or other welcoming point into downtown. There is a building for sale on the site I am referring to which I think used to house a restaurant of some sort. It is at the "other" entrance or exit to downtown and would be similiar to what you see in other downtowns when entering or exiting a major highway. Thoughts? I know it's over by the old Morgan St jail building they are knocking down.

An design concept I've always appreciated is the approach to LAX. I like the lighted towers along the way in. Its one of the iconic LA images, frequently shown on MSNBC's morning show and other shows. I've always thought the main entrance to DT, and 275 is the main entrance, ought to have a similar design element that says, "if you couldn't tell by the skyscrapers, yup you're in downtown Tampa."

I would like to see a push by the city to dress up our downtown entrances/exits. There is an ongoing "plan" for Ashley as the "major" dt thoroughfare and Meridian looks great as it is all new construction but they need to make an effort on the smaller entrances such as the bridges (lighting would be great) as well as the on/off ramps. Most DT's have some kind of "welcome" statement and ours are simply grass medians which are not very eye catching.

I would also like if Tampa would have some type of downtown music festival once Curtis Hixon is completed. Have one or two main bands and then have a couple few local bands at the festival. Maybe have a Latin Music Festival aswell.

I was downtown this past weekend for the Streetcar Fest. It was hot of course, but I had a good time. I spoke to someone from the mpo about streetscaping and transportation projects.

While I was out i took some pics. I wanted to get shots that made Tampa look woodsy and more inviting.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3509/4010539530_33d92f71a2_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2584/4009771247_464af06dc6_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2462/4010536642_872c4e5dfe_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2521/4009768167_05b9f7b98f_b.jpg

The star-shaped leaves are from a sweet gum tree. I wouldn't mind seeing these as the standard in streetscaping downtown.

^Nice pics...


btw, sweet gums are pretty messy, and the roots tend to want to creep along the surface, so I doubt you'll see many of them in urban areas. Nice tree though. My folks have a lovely one in their back yard that made for some good climbing when I was a kid.

I attended a meeting at the Tampa Port Authority last night held by the City and Wilson Miller. Topic of discussion was the proposed new park going in on the corner of 12th St and Washington in Channelside area. The City was looking for input from residents and business owners.

Many suggestions came forth, but the most recurring themes were:
- Dog park
- Shaded seating
- Entry w/ public art at corner of 12th & Washington
- Social gathering spot
- Mix of trees and plant life

It will likely be first quarter 2010 before a plan is presented, and probably late summer / early fall before we see a park, but it's an exciting development nonetheless.

Also, directly across from the park entry will be a coffee shop / cafe going into the corner of the Place, to include outdoor cafe seating. Should also be a nice addition to the neighborhood. Looking to open in a few months.

Sounds great...a shaded park that interacts with it's surroundings

Is this the site of the proposed tower by Intown Group in Channelside that never took off? Was the site sold off or is it just the corner closet to Washington and 12th and not the entire site?

The riverwalk looks really good by St. Pete Times, I really got the feeling I got when I was at the Chicago riverwalk. I also saw that stupid garage is u/c now in channelside.

Is this the site of the proposed tower by Intown Group in Channelside that never took off? Was the site sold off or is it just the corner closet to Washington and 12th and not the entire site?
I believe so. There was a meeting either tonight or last Thursday that involves/involved the City buying the lot that Novare had bought.

How big is the park anyways? Is it just on the corner or the whole side of 12th St.?

And thanks Jaso in reminding me, I have some pics of the site from Tuesday.

How big is the park anyways? Is it just on the corner or the whole side of 12th St.?

The proposed park will take up about 2/3 of that entire lot, starting at Washington to the North, running along 12th street, and stopping before you get to the Meridian.

The space directly adjacent to the Meridian is apparently for sale.

Is the lot the one used for the Yacht Starship?

Is the lot the one used for the Yacht Starship?

I think Yacht Starship uses the lot beside Channelside at the corner of Beneficial Dr. and Channelside Dr..

I believe that this is at the corner of 12th St. and Washington St., just West of The Place and North of The Meridian. IMO this park would make those condos much more appealing than before.

Steve

The space directly adjacent to the Meridian is apparently for sale.

That was the land that the Novare/Intown tower was proposed for.

The condo I own at The Meridian is the PH with the covered balcony and "view" directly down on the lot. So...I guess the area immediately next to my unit may very well still eventually house a building of some sort.

^You should count on it.

I think Yacht Starship uses the lot beside Channelside at the corner of Beneficial Dr. and Channelside Dr..

I believe that this is at the corner of 12th St. and Washington St., just West of The Place and North of The Meridian. IMO this park would make those condos much more appealing than before.

Steve
Nah, they also own the lot on the corner of 12th and Cumberland, just across from the parking garage.

And it's good that it's most of the lot and just not that corner, because it would had been a waste if so. Hopefully they build it to allow whatever pops up next to it to connect with the park.