San Diego Development News [Archive] - Page 2

haldcottingham

June 29th, 2007, 07:27 PM

I found this on www.signonsandiego.com under the search Marriott/Nickelodeon:

Marriott, Nickleodeon team up on upscale theme parks

ASSOCIATED PRESS

8:38 a.m. June 1, 2007

BETHESDA, Md. – Marriott International Inc. and the children's network Nickelodeon plan to team up on a string of upscale resorts that will include water parks and entertainment from the likes of SpongeBob SquarePants.
Marriott and Nickelodeon, which is owned by Viacom International Inc., said the first resort will be built in San Diego, and is scheduled to open in 2010. It will feature 650 hotel rooms and a 100,000 square-foot water park. Up to 20 resorts may be built by 2020 in the U.S., the Caribbean, Mexico, Europe, Asia, Australia and the Middle East.

AdvertisementBethesda-based Marriott has been trying to lure younger and affluent guests to the chain of 2,900 hotels it operates worldwide. The company has revamped lobbies, added high tech accessibility and added comfier bedding.
Chief Executive J.W. Marriott Jr., marking the joint venture, was doused with Nickelodeon's trademark green slime while standing next to SpongeBob on Thursday at a media event in New York.

“That's the highest honor you can get from Nickelodeon, so they tell me,” Marriott wrote on his blog.

Marriott will operate the resorts, and Miller Global Properties LLC will have exclusive rights to develop them. Miller will contribute $300 million to an investment fund for the projects.

Child-themed resort planned for Liberty Station

By Penni Crabtree
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

June 1, 2007

Nickelodeon-Marriott
A view of the proposed Nickelodeon Resorts by Marriott hotel and water park to be built at Liberty Station.
SAN DIEGO – San Diego will get its first major child-themed resort soon with the development of a new 650-room hotel and 100,000-square-foot water park by hotel chain Marriott International and TV network Nickelodeon.
The first in a proposed chain of 20 “Nickelodeon Resorts by Marriott” properties to be built worldwide, the 18-acre San Diego complex will break ground at Liberty Station early next year and is expected to open in 2010.

The hotels, which will cost about $200 to $300 million to build, will be owned by Miller Global Properties and managed by Marriott. Nickelodeon will receive a licensing fee for use of its popular brand characters like SpongeBob SquarePants and Dora the Explorer.

The hotels will have Nickelodeon-themed resort activities and live entertainment.

sd_urban

July 5th, 2007, 08:37 AM

This thread needs to be desperately brought to life. And what better way to do this than with some pics, right?

Latest proposal announced a few weeks ago:

RIVIERA

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/FROM6AVE-A-smallCCDC.jpg

Ghods Builders is developing a mixed-use residential condominium tower on the block bounded by Sixth & 7th Avenues and Ash Street. The 38-story building will have 427 luxury condominiums and 58,000 square feet of retail and commercial space over below-grade parking.

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A couple of weekends ago, I wandered into the DT Info Center and noticed that the model of Bosa's 1st and Island project had been added to the mini-model. Views from different angles -

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DTSD%20Info%20Ctr/IMG_8610-1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DTSD%20Info%20Ctr/IMG_8613.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/DTSD%20Info%20Ctr/IMG_8611.jpg

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Here's an article from Monday's SD Daily Transcript regarding the 777 Beech proposal. The tower looks pretty nice, but I'm not sure it's such a good idea to build it so close the historic El Cortez Tower :shrug:

They should build it in East Village and make it 3 times taller!!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/elcort.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/elcort2.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/elcort3.jpg

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Looks like The Diegan has finally found it's luxury hotel operator. The Setai Group has a property in Miami Beach http://www.setai.com/ and one set to break ground in NYC http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/01/19/realestate/greathomes/19break1.html?n=Top%2fClassifieds%2fReal%20Estate%2fColumns%2fBreaking%20Ground. They claim to be a 5-Star operator but I've never heard of them before.

From today's San Diego Business Journal -

New York Developer Puts New Brand On Diegan

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/Diegan20Web20Size.jpg

Fifth Avenue Partners has announced that the Setai Group will be the official operator of The Setai San Diego, a boutique hotel formerly known as the Diegan, under construction on downtown’s Fifth Avenue.

The 100 percent condotel has 161 rooms and suites ranging from 400 to 2,700 square feet that are being sold in the high $400,000s to $3.8 million range. Condotels are hotels whose rooms are owned by individuals or parties that use them for a fraction of a year and place them into the regular inventory the remainder of the time. The revenue generated by renting the rooms may be used to offset mortgages.

The newly branded property is scheduled for completion at the end of the year. The Setai Group is a New York-based development firm that specializes in luxury residential and boutique hotels.

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Just a few pics from this past weekend -

Remember when you could fit the skyline into one shot? Well, not anymore. I wish I knew how to stitch pics...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_8942.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_8943.jpg

Now we have to work on filling the gap in between the new Hilton and the Omni
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_8939.jpg

Hilton Up Close
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_8940.jpg

Electra tops out
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_8949.jpg

This has nothing to do with downtown, but while taking these shots I came across this Coronado house that was located a block away from the Bay (without any views). Look at what you get for $1.25 Million !! I only wish the open house was still going on, so I could have walked in and bitch-slapped the seller :haha:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_8895.jpg

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Here's a clearer rendering of the 7th & Market proposal. The ground floor looks to be pretty pedestrian friendly. I'm so glad that none of the projects that have been built or proposed recently have ugly, exposed parking garages for a base. :okay:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/sdscene_3large.jpg

Rendering and description of the future Cowboy Star restaurant in East Village (around the corner from the now underconstruction bowling alley) from SD Metro Mag

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/sdscene_4large.jpg

Galloping in to East Village’s growing round-up of restaurants is Cowboy Star, a 5,000-square-foot restaurant, bar and butcher shop at 640 10th Ave. between Market and G streets. Described as “fine dining meets Old West romance,” the eatery promises fireplaces, exposed beam ceilings, private dining and a display kitchen serving up “a unique Western menu” for lunch and dinner. When it opens in September, the retail butcher shop will be the only one Downtown. Owner is Cloghan Concepts, architect is Matthew Ellis/Blue Motif Architects and executive chef is Victor Jimenez, most recently of Jordan at PB’s Tower23 Hotel.

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A couple of weeks ago, there was an article about possibly lighting up the Coronado Bridge at night. I'm all for it!!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/sdscene_5large.jpg

Wash Of Blue Light Is Considered For Coronado Bridge

By Janine Zúñiga
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

June 22, 2007

Lighten up, San Diego.

While it's no Golden Gate Bridge, local public art enthusiasts are hoping to make the San Diego-Coronado Bridge shine – day and night.

The idea – to light the 2.12-mile bridge from underneath – has been quietly shopped around for several months.

The Port of San Diego's Public Art Committee is pitching the plan, which is accompanied by an artist's rendering of a blue-tinted Coronado bridge.

“The bridge is already a beautiful icon, but you only see it in the daytime,” said Gaidi Finnie, a member of the Port's art committee. “They are doing such wonderful things with lighting these days. It will be just that much more visible and really something to see.”

If the lights are installed, San Diego would join several cities worldwide illuminating not only bridges and skylines, but roadway medians and walls.

But do all those lights fly in the face of increasing efforts to combat global warming and promote energy efficiency? Catherine Sass, the Port's public art director, said “dramatic changes” in lighting technology make this project more viable than even 10 years ago. The recently “uplighted” Vincent Thomas Bridge at the Port of Los Angeles uses cost-efficient light-emitting diodes, or LEDs, and a solar photovoltaic system.

The Port committee considered several sites for a piece of public art before settling on the bridge-lighting idea. The group discussed 20 other San Diego locations, including the cruise ship terminal area, the Broadway Pier, Harbor Island and the west ends of Grape, Cedar and Ash streets.

Members chose the bridge because it is already a San Diego landmark, can be seen from many locations, is monumental in size and would leave a public art legacy.

Finnie, who is spearheading the effort, made the first public presentation of the idea in Coronado on Tuesday. Coronado is one of at least eight municipalities and agencies that need to approve the project before it can proceed.

Others include the state Department of Transportation, which maintains the bridge; the city of San Diego and its Commission for Arts and Culture; the Navy; the California Highway Patrol; the Coast Guard; the Harbor Police; the U.S. Department of Homeland Security; and other port cities.

“We have to take all concerns into consideration,” Finnie said. “If it's foggy, can you turn the lights off? Can we have more lighting in certain areas for security reasons? There are electric issues on the bridge. Things need to be replaced. We need to form a number of partnerships.”

Finnie said the committee will present the proposal to various groups during the next few months. If the groups are supportive, Finnie said, artist guidelines might be ready early next year. Artists would then submit ideas, cost estimates and, if chosen as finalists, create models for public review. The Port, with comment from the committee and the public, would make the final selection.

Sass said there are no cost estimates yet. She said grants would be the main source of funding for the design, installation, maintenance and electrical costs.

“We would need to ask what this project would solve and go that way with funding,” she said. “There may be highway enhancement grants. There are some special grants the governor has. There may even be arts-oriented or security-oriented grants.”

Robert Mosher, architect of the San Diego-Coronado Bridge, is advising the committee. He was out of town this week, but committee members said that initially he wasn't keen on the idea of lights.

“But once he got in a dialogue about it, he told us that he originally had a lighting plan and something happened and it was cut,” Sass said. “He got pretty interested in bringing back the idea.”

After this week's presentation, most Coronado city officials, including Port Commissioner Robert “Rocky” Spane, said they liked the lighting idea. Some council members said they were concerned about spending any city funds on public art and about lights being too bright.

“It's a good idea, but it can't be ostentatious because of the residential neighborhoods nearby,” said Mayor Tom Smisek, adding that everyone who has seen the artist's rendering “really liked it.”

Tom Ham, Caltrans' district highway art coordinator, said he hasn't heard any objections to the idea of a lighted bridge. He heard from some agencies that the lighting might improve security, especially at night.

“So far, I haven't heard anything bad, but some people don't like change,” Ham said. “Maybe they like the bridge just fine the way it is.”

The bridge has provoked strong emotions before. When it was proposed, many Coronado residents opposed it. In April 1958, city residents voted 2,224-1,528 against its construction.

And while it was delayed a few more years, former Gov. Edmund G. “Pat” Brown went to Washington and convinced President Lyndon Johnson that the bridge was a good idea. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers approved the project in 1965.

Then bridge tolls became a sore subject. Tolls were in place when the bridge opened in 1969. After the bonds to build the bridge were paid off in 1986, more than a decade ahead of schedule, toll opponents tried to stop the fees. But residents, fearing more traffic, wanted to keep the tolls in place. City officials struggled to keep the tolls for more than 15 years before they ended in 2002.

As officials consider the plan to bathe it in light, the bridge is approaching its 40th anniversary.

“It would be a wonderful tie-in if it worked out, but it would need to keep progressing at a good rate,” Sass said. “It's an ambitious plan, very ambitious, but not impossible.”

haldcottingham

July 5th, 2007, 05:37 PM

This thread needs to be desperately brought to life. And what better way to do this than with some pics, right?

This has nothing to do with downtown, but while taking these shots I came across this Coronado house that was located a block away from the Bay (without any views). Look at what you get for $1.25 Million !! I only wish the open house was still going on, so I could have walked in and bitch-slapped the seller :haha:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_8895.jpg

Let me hit up the piggy bank and head down to Coronado right away! I've gotta see that one for myself. Thanks for posting that!

SDfan

July 5th, 2007, 09:13 PM

Thanks for the update sd_urban.

Riviera looks pretty promising, but I thought the Mark would be great and I was proven wrong.

I have to say though, Electra looks great in the skyline. Every angle I've seen it in its always slender and tall. Its a shame its not in the east village were it would appear taller, its Columbia neighbors destroy that illusion completely.

Yes, I am calling OAP fat! And the Grande twins. All well. At least Electra is great.

Lastly, the Mark and Legend all look like the same building but at different heights from the angle you shot that picture. Those two and Alta have been somewhat dissapointing to me mainly because they're squat and short from a distance. Cosmo and Library need to be apart of the next cycle!

Okay, I'm done. :)

SDfan

July 5th, 2007, 09:17 PM

Wait, I'm not.

About 7th and Market. Does anyone have any idea what the chances of that project being built are? I'm fairly excited for it, mainly because of that glass crown. It would be nice to see some clean glass on a building, like on Broadway 655. Especially in the East Village.

So any idea?

derek5

July 5th, 2007, 10:26 PM

It seems like 7th & Market is recieving a lot of hype. And it is a fairly large project with plenty of potential. I'd say it has a pretty good chance.

derek5

July 5th, 2007, 10:27 PM

Riviera looks pretty nice too. It will be a much needed addition to that part of town.

I agree, the Mark doesn't look great with it's entire concrete column exposed on the back of the building like that.

mongozx

July 6th, 2007, 08:28 AM

Re: El Cortez Development. Die NIMBYs. Die.

sd_urban

July 6th, 2007, 08:45 AM

Let me hit up the piggy bank and head down to Coronado right away! I've gotta see that one for myself. Thanks for posting that!
Is that house ridiculous or what? It looks like a single-wide trailer on a tiny lot. No place lives up to the mantra "location, location, location" like California.

Riviera looks pretty promising, but I thought the Mark would be great and I was proven wrong.
The side facing the ballpark of The Mark isn't so bad, it's the other side that is a let down.

Those two and Alta have been somewhat dissapointing to me mainly because they're squat and short from a distance.
They look like that because they pretty far from the water. Looking at the skyline from Coronado causes such an optical illusion.

In this pic, check out how Electra, the Harbor Drive twins and Pinnacle look to be exactly the same height, even though they aren't. Even funnier is how the second Manchester tower is shorter that both Electra and Pinnacle, but here it looks like a giant. I bet the new Hilton tower will also look taller than it is when it's done.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/Downtown%20Shots/IMG_8942.jpg

About 7th and Market. Does anyone have any idea what the chances of that project being built are? I'm fairly excited for it, mainly because of that glass crown. It would be nice to see some clean glass on a building, like on Broadway 655. Especially in the East Village.

So any idea?
I'm thinking it has a pretty good of a chance of being built because the developer, Related Cos. http://www.related.com/index.asp?model=homeRelated&view=1&companyid=7,
is a legit and well-known New York company. They built the prestigious Time Warner Center next to Central Park.

I agree, the glass crown will be a nice change from the balcony infested towers we've gotten recently. :)

haldcottingham

July 6th, 2007, 10:50 PM

Going to all three games over the weekend starting tonight. Not sure how many picture's I'll take outside the ballpark, but I'll share what I do get.

SDfan

July 7th, 2007, 05:09 AM

They look like that because they pretty far from the water. Looking at the skyline from Coronado causes such an optical illusion.[/IMG]

Optical illusion or not, its still unattractive to my eye, but its only from one side, so I guess should be greatful for the density at least.

I'm thinking it has a pretty good of a chance of being built because the developer, Related Cos. http://www.related.com/index.asp?model=homeRelated&view=1&companyid=7,
is a legit and well-known New York company. They built the prestigious Time Warner Center next to Central Park.

I agree, the glass crown will be a nice change from the balcony infested towers we've gotten recently. :)

Thats great news to me! Something this different need to be built soon, and its nice to know there is a reliable developer behind it. Thanks for the info.

bushman61988

July 7th, 2007, 05:55 PM

Thanks for the update sd_urban.

Riviera looks pretty promising, but I thought the Mark would be great and I was proven wrong.

I have to say though, Electra looks great in the skyline. Every angle I've seen it in its always slender and tall. Its a shame its not in the east village were it would appear taller, its Columbia neighbors destroy that illusion completely.

Lastly, the Mark and Legend all look like the same building but at different heights from the angle you shot that picture. Those two and Alta have been somewhat dissapointing to me mainly because they're squat and short from a distance. Cosmo and Library need to be apart of the next cycle!

Yea, I definitely agree about the Mark. I mean, it's OKAY, but the back of it with that long slab of exposed concrete that runs along the back of the building is absolutely hideous. not only that, but the renderings lied and showed it would be painted white.

sd_urban

July 7th, 2007, 07:43 PM

sd_urban

July 7th, 2007, 07:47 PM

There are some funny quotes in this article. The architect should just include 2 domes at the base and call it a day :haha:

Designer Will 'Tone Down' Tower Over Criticism

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/tower250.jpg

Consultant had called structure 'very phallic'

By Jeanette Steele
STAFF WRITER FOR THE SAN DIEGO UNION TRIBUNE

July 7, 2007

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and two beholders – one of them a government agency's architect – have very different views of a 40-story residential tower proposed at a gateway to downtown San Diego.

Sandor Shapery says his design is like a flower. A consultant to the Centre City Development Corp. says it looks like a giant phallus.

The Shapery proposal, a 160-unit hotel and condominium tower, was supposed to go before the downtown redevelopment agency for initial feedback this month. But the developer asked for a postponement, saying he will “revisit” and perhaps “tone down” the design because he doesn't want to offend anyone.

Shapery, however, said he disagrees with the criticism. He said he wanted to create an “organic form,” which is how flower petals came to mind.

“If it looks like a phallic symbol, someone has a strange perception,” said Shapery, a San Diego-based developer. “You can find sex anywhere if you want to. . . . There's just some sick people out there.”

Gwynne Pugh, a Santa Monica architect hired by the downtown redevelopment agency to review building designs, has questioned whether the design is right for the city. The location, at 11th Avenue and A Street, is a prominent spot as a downtown entrance from state Route 163.

“With its rounded forms and swelling of the uppermost floors . . . this building structure is very phallic,” Pugh wrote in his critique of the project.

Some downtown residents seem to agree with Pugh. At one public meeting on the design, comments from the audience included “appalled” and “too iconic.” Someone compared it to Las Vegas architecture.

Shapery is no stranger to big, and at times controversial, developments downtown.

The lawyer-turned-developer built Emerald Plaza on West Broadway – the towers with green neon lights circling them at night – and the W Hotel at State and B streets.

Emerald Plaza had critics when it was proposed in the 1980s, Shapery said.

Some architects labeled it “pretentious” and “discordant” with its surroundings, according to a 1987 San Diego Union story. The newspaper's architecture critic wrote, “The building looks like a futuristic experiment, which is a fine thing on the drafting board but may look peculiar along staid Broadway.”

The architect for Emerald Plaza and Shapery's new tower is C.W. Kim of La Jolla.

Kim said the goal was to create a unique building. “You know, it's the mediocre buildings that anyone can do. Anyone can do a square building,” Kim said.

Shapery said the brouhaha about the proposed tower's look is obscuring the more significant topic: The shape goes hand-in-hand with the project's energy-conservation goals.

The developer wants the inside of the building to have multiple functions. For example, the plan is to use ice blocks in the air conditioning system, then recycle the melted water for use in the swimming pool, laundry and irrigation.

“The whole concept is it's really an organic form with no angles. Everything is flowing and rounded,” Shapery said. “People aren't really looking at what the building is really about.”

Looking at the rendering here, it's apparent that it's already been toned down once before
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/kimprojectsst9.png

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It's too bad about the Gaylord Project :(

Bayfront Development Deal Crumbles Over Labor Impasse

Company pulls out of Chula Vista project

By Tanya Mannes and David Washburn
SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITERS

July 7, 2007

A redevelopment deal that would have erased decades of failure to build up the Chula Vista bayfront – and made the city a big player in the national convention business – is dead.

Citing an inability to reach an agreement with local unions after more than a year of negotiations, Gaylord Entertainment said yesterday that it will no longer pursue a plan to build a $1 billion hotel and convention center on the city's long-vacant bayfront.

The Tennessee company's decision marked a stunning reversal of fortune for a deal that Chula Vista Mayor Cheryl Cox just months ago called “the most realistic and realizable plan for the bayfront that I've seen in more than 30 years.”

While Cox and other city officials joined Gaylord in blaming unions for the deal's demise, local labor leaders, along with Rep. Bob Filner, D-San Diego, said the company's intractable negotiating stance and Cox's poor leadership led to its unraveling.

Cox said Gaylord CEO Colin Reed called her yesterday afternoon from Nashville to tell her the news.

“He said he cannot subject his company to the disruption and blackmail of organized labor and must move on,” she said during a hastily arranged news conference on the steps of City Hall. “This opportunity has now been chased away.”

Labor leaders, in their own telephone news conference, said they had made numerous concessions in recent weeks, and in the end had required only that Gaylord hire workers – and not necessarily union workers – from the San Diego area.

“We are disappointed that Gaylord Entertainment has abandoned this project because we weren't willing to sacrifice local men and women,” said Tom Lemmon, business manager for the San Diego Building and Construction Trades Council.

“It is Gaylord's choice,” he said. “They are walking away because they are not willing to build a project that works for the entire community.”

Since Gaylord approached Chula Vista in 2005, city and Port of San Diego officials have touted the project's potential benefits: a 10 percent boost in city revenue; 3,000 new, permanent jobs; and a springboard for other commercial and residential development.

“After over a year of unproductive discussions with the San Diego Building and Construction Trades Council, we have concluded that their unwavering, unreasonable demands render the project unfeasible for our company and our shareholders,” the letter states.

Gaylord wasn't required to reach a labor agreement with the unions, but Westbrook said in the letter that without a deal, “the Trades Council, working in conjunction with the Environmental Health Coalition, has made it clear that it will take steps to disrupt the project” through lawsuits and bad publicity.

Lemmon and Jennifer Badgley, of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, said Gaylord, not the unions, refused to negotiate in good faith.

They said the unions made a series of concessions in recent months concerning union labor on the project, and only refused to budge on the requirement that Gaylord hire local workers.

“At the end of the day, it came down to Gaylord's unwillingness to commit to local hires,” Lemmon said.

Joining the union leaders were Filner and Laura Hunter of the Environmental Health Coalition.

Labor “went more than halfway” and shouldn't take the fall, Filner said. He blamed Cox and other elected leaders for letting the deal slip away.

“I was shocked that it was only labor fighting for the jobs, not the political leaders,” Filner said. “The city of Chula Vista was looking for a scapegoat, not to take a leadership role.”

Since the early 1970s, South Bay leaders have tried but failed to clean up and develop 550 acres of largely port-owned industrial and marsh land that stretches from the Sweetwater Marsh Wildlife Refuge to just south of the South Bay Power Plant.

Gaylord's project would have been huge, with up to 2,000 hotel rooms and 400,000 square feet of convention space that would have bordered on new public parks.

After a year of preliminary talks, Gaylord entered formal negotiations with Chula Vista and port officials in July 2006 regarding the terms of a $308 million public subsidy, probably paid through bonds and revenue generated by the development.

At the same time, the company began talking with labor groups about a projected 6,500 construction jobs.

Westbrook said the unions insisted on bidding restrictions that would have increased the building cost by $50 million to $75 million. The restrictions would have prevented the company from seeking nonunion bids on most jobs, he said.

Lemmon and Badgley called Westbrook's statements “inaccurate.”

Lemmon said union leaders were willing to relax the bidding restrictions that Westbrook called deal-breakers. He also said they were ready to take out “the union security clause,” which would have guaranteed that project workers be unionized.

Lemmon and Badgley said Gaylord officials spent little time in the room during the final negotiating session June 29, and in the end walked out without saying anything.

“We clearly do not deserve the onus of responsibility for Gaylord deciding not to build here,” Badgley said.

Cox said the city and Port Commission remained neutral in the labor talks until last week, when Gaylord's June 30 deadline passed without an agreement. This week, she said, officials tried but failed to reopen negotiations.

“Reasonable people acting responsibly should have been able to work something out,” Cox said yesterday.

In a telephone interview, Westbrook said the company's decision was difficult – and final.

“We've been overwhelmed by the support we've received in the Chula Vista community and the San Diego region,” he said. “We're very disappointed in this outcome.”

Chula Vista Chamber of Commerce CEO Lisa Cohen, who has been a vocal booster of the project, was distraught that a “golden opportunity” was lost.

“It's a sad day for Chula Vista,” she said at the news conference with Cox. “We opened our arms to Gaylord, we were very excited, and now we're devastated and shocked.”

Port Commissioner Mike Bixler said the demise of the deal is “an economic tragedy for the South Bay and San Diego County.”

Other officials expressed regret, but said they remain hopeful that another developer will come along for Chula Vista.

Possible candidates could include John Moores' JMI Realty and Manchester Resorts, owned by Doug Manchester, both of which submitted bids that lost out to Gaylord's.

JMI President John Kratzer said he wasn't surprised the deal fell through, given its scope and the difficulty of developing in California. He said JMI might consider resubmitting its earlier, “less ambitious” proposal.

“I think we will have to let all this settle down and shake out,” Kratzer said. “But if the port and the city decide they want to solicit new proposals, we would certainly re-evaluate our proposal.”

A representative for Manchester Resorts didn't return a call for comment.

The San Diego Chargers organization is looking for sites for a new stadium and has focused on land in Chula Vista and Oceanside. Cox said it's too early to speculate as to whether Gaylord's announcement will affect that search.

Port Commission Chairwoman Sylvia Rios issued a statement in which she said the announcement was “devastating,” but that she won't give up.

“We must now look to the future,” Rios said. “It is only prudent that the port and the city of Chula Vista begin a review of alternatives to attract another anchor project that will act as an economic catalyst for the bayfront plan.”

Karltj

July 7th, 2007, 08:33 PM

:ohno: Oh, no, this is terrible news. So is it Chula Vista's fate to remain a small, boring town forever???
I can't believe this happened, it seemed likea done deal, I don't get it.

bushman61988

July 8th, 2007, 02:50 AM

^^If I'm not mistaken, there's no exposed concrete at all, rather it's metal sheeting. The sheeting isn't bad, but I know what you mean about the big slabs of it. At least neighboring Legend looks good all-around.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/markyu.jpg

No, look at that long slab running right down the middle of the tower in that picture right there. I work at the Ballpark and have seen this tower from that angle up real close and there is definitely no metal sheeting on that part.

U can't really tell in that picture b/c it's far away and there's not much light but in the daytime u can tell cuz the coloring is uneven.

derek5

July 8th, 2007, 03:59 AM

That long concrete shaft is disgusting. I know exactly what you are talking about. I make comments about it everytime I see it in person.

sd_urban

July 8th, 2007, 08:43 AM

No, look at that long slab running right down the middle of the tower in that picture right there. I work at the Ballpark and have seen this tower from that angle up real close and there is definitely no metal sheeting on that part.

U can't really tell in that picture b/c it's far away and there's not much light but in the daytime u can tell cuz the coloring is uneven.
Wow, I never noticed the strip down the center. I'm going to the game tomorrow, so I'll have to look at that up close.

More renderings and info on Shapery Park Tower. Yet another 500' MSL tower to add to the growing plateau. :( On the positive note, there's going to be a rooftop restaurant/bar and observation deck served by a glass elevator, which will be cool. :okay:
http://www.shaperyenterprises.com/

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/realestate31.jpg

From Balboa Park
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/realestate35.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/realestate33.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/realestate34.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/realestate32.jpg

SHAPERY PARK TOWER

Project Description

Shapery Park Tower is a proposed 40 story condominium/hotel and residential tower in downtown San Diego containing 90 hotel/condominium suites, 30 one bedroom condominium suites, 42 two bedroom condominium suites, one penthouse condominium suite, a spa/health club, pool, 40th story restaurant, roof top bar served by a glass elevator, ancillary commercial space and 164 parking spaces located in the project parking garage.

Shapery Park Tower sits on the western half of a substandard block (200’X 108’) bounded by Russ Blvd. on the north, A St. on the south, 11th St. on the west and Park Blvd on the east . It shares the block with a five story historic hotel building that was newly renovated by Mr. Shapery thereby allowing for the transfer of the excess floor area ratio to the Shapery Park Tower. The site is the last private ownership parcel south of Balboa Park and as such is viewed as a city gateway parcel sitting between the downtown core, Balboa Park and at the beginning of the historic Cabrillo highway through the Park.

The building is being developed by Sandor Shapery who previously developed San Diego’s premier mixed use high-rise hotel/office complex, the Emerald Shapery Center which can be recognized by its eight hexagon towers topped with green neon. Mr. Shapery designed the Emerald Shapery Center in conjunction with C.W. Kim Architects who is again joining with Mr. Shapery in the design of this iconic building. Mr. Shapery was also responsible for the design and development of the W Hotel in downtown San Diego.

Mr. Shapery who designed and built the Emerald Shapery Center 16 years ago has been referred to as a futurist having installed many innovations in the Emerald Shapery Center including, openable window mullions for fresh air in every office and hotel room; separate air intakes on each floor at the north side of the building to lower the temperature gradient, save energy and reduce the amount of ionized air in the air distribution ducts; the hexagon design allowed for a greater percentage of view windows per square foot of floor space along with the standardization of every exterior window and building frame component. San Diego’s most efficient air conditioning ice storage system enables the Emerald Shapery Center to reduce its air conditioning electric costs by 70% while the laundry water recycling program paid for itself in 36 months.

The Shapery Park Tower will contain these innovations and more as it is being designed to be the most energy efficient high-rise condominium/hotel and residential tower in the region. Every part of the Shapery Park Tower is being designed with quality of life, energy efficiency, environmental sensitivity and sustainability issues given primary concern.

Many internal building systems are being designed to minimize initial costs and reduce operating costs by utilizing the systems for multiple functions. Examples include utilizing the cooling tower fans to exhaust the parking garage; capturing the building air conditioning condensation water for use in the laundry, swimming pool, fire water storage system and irrigation. Additionally the projects water features are being designed to function as cooling towers for the air-conditioning system. Photovoltaic glass will be installed on the south side building balconies to reduce each tenant’s electrical requirements.

In addition to the many innovations, the building is being built pursuant to the highest standards set by the U.S. Green Building Council LEED certification program.

DETAILED PROJECT DESCRIPTION

The Shapery Park Tower contains forty stories above grade and 4 stories below grade for a total building height of 500 feet above the mean high tide line in the San Diego bay; the maximum building height allowed in downtown San Diego. The project rises 409 feet above the lowest grade on the site with the parcel containing 10,840.5 square feet. The tower sits on the top of the parking pedestal which covers most of the site and contains the lobby, ancillary commercial uses and parking. The Tower will be constructed out of concrete and is designed in the shape of a three leaf clover with each peddle and accompanying core being identical allowing for all of the construction forming to be the same. The organic design of the Shapery Park Tower is symbolic of the environmental aspects of the project.

PARKING

The project has 7 floors of parking. Three levels above grade and 4 levels below grade.

The 4 levels of underground parking contain 86 standard sized parking stalls and 16 compact spaces for a total of 102 spaces below grade. The entrance and exit to the underground parking is located on Russ Blvd.

There are three levels of above grade parking in the pedestal of the building, being levels 3 through 5 containing 52 standard sized spaces and 10 compact spaces for a total of 62 above grade parking spaces. When combined with the underground parking spaces there are a total of 164 parking spaces- 138 standard parking spaces and 26 substandard parking spaces. The entrance and exit to and from the above grade parking is accessed by a driveway between the tower pedestal and the Historic hotel located on the adjacent parcel entering on A Street and exiting on Russ Blvd.

The hotel lobby is two stories tall measured from the entrance on the corner of 11th and A Street. The lower lobby level is connected to the drive-in entrance and upper lobby level by a set of escalators separated by two water falls integrated into the air conditioning cooling system as mentioned above.

HOTEL/ CONDOMINIUM AMENITIES

On the 6th level of the building pedestal above the parking is the back-of-the-house hotel operations system, including house keeping, laundry, security, storage and mechanical systems.

There are three elevators that serve all of the parking and lobby levels, two of which are passenger elevators and one freight elevator running from the p-4 level to the pool deck and spa located on the 7th floor. A second freight elevator begins at the back of the house on the 6th level and runs to the roof. The tower is also served by one glass elevator and two passenger elevators.

The seventh floor, which is the top of the building’s pedestal, contains the swimming pool, pool deck, jacuzzi, health spa, hotel administrative offices, parking elevators, glass elevator, and tower elevators.

The eighth floor which is the first floor of the tower contains two ballroom/meeting rooms containing 1084 square feet each, an 810 square foot kitchen/pantry and a prefunction area containing 760 square feet along with two balconies containing 170 square feet.

The 9th through the 19th floors of the tower contain 9 units per floor for a total of 90 hotel condominium units ranging in size from 375 to 480 square feet most with balconies of 85 square feet each.

The 20th through the 24th floors of the tower contain 6 one bedroom condominium units per floor for a total of 30 one bedroom condominium units from 612 to 644 square feet, one and three quarter baths with full kitchens, and containing balconies of 85 square feet each.

The 25th through the 38th floor contain 3 two bedroom two and one half bath condominium units per floor for a total of 42 two bedroom two and one half bath condominiums ranging in size from 1284 to 1292 square feet each containing balconies which range in size from 176 to 255. Two of the three condominiums on each floor have keyed elevators opening directly into the unit’s living room.

Beginning at the 37th floor and continuing to the top of the building each units’ balconies project outward and increase from 420 square feet, out to 584, and 594, square feet respectively.

The 39th floor contains the penthouse condominium containing a total of 4345 square feet of living space with three balconies containing 1782 square each.

The 40th story is a restaurant and lounge containing 3886 square feet of interior space and two outdoor balconies containing 2268 square feet.

Above the restaurant is the roof-top bar and observatory topped out with back lit canvas petals.

haldcottingham

July 8th, 2007, 07:29 PM

If anyone here wanted to see my photos from the games this weekend, please check out the new thread "Photos from Petco....."

I have some of the areas surround the ballpark and some inside the park. I'll be going downtown earlier today to take more pics of downtown and adding them tonight or tomorrow.

SDfan

July 8th, 2007, 10:03 PM

Shapery Park Tower is an interesting piece of work.

It reminds me of something from Vegas, Dubai or India. Maybe even a mixture of the three. I'm not in love with this structure, but its different, and slender. I don't know how well it would look in 20 years time though. Maybe some modifications would do it some good.

mongozx

July 9th, 2007, 12:38 AM

Regardless of how the building looks like, it will stick out like a sore thumb in that location. I hope there are more proposals of skyscrapers out in that area. Like where that abandoned Jerome's warehouse. It's a large lot comparable in size to the Ballpark Village plan.

SDfan

July 9th, 2007, 03:28 AM

^^ Wasn't there a project proposed at that jeromes warehouse? Something called "mega-block" or along those words?

And I'd actually prefer to have a lone tower somewhere away from the growing pletau. Preferably not Shapery, but something else that would a nice focus away from the flatness.

haldcottingham

July 9th, 2007, 08:30 AM

For those that are interested in looking, I posted more pics from today on Photos from Petco.......

AcK!

July 10th, 2007, 03:33 AM

^^ Wasn't there a project proposed at that jeromes warehouse? Something called "mega-block" or along those words?

Could someone say more about this "mega-block" / Jerome's project? Is it alive? What does / did it involve?

I've walked by there a number of times and been struck by how much could be done with it, and what a big stepping-stone it could be in bridging the gap between Golden Hill and downtown.

audubon1946

July 10th, 2007, 01:09 PM

“If it looks like a phallic symbol, someone has a strange perception,” said Shapery, a San Diego-based developer. “You can find sex anywhere if you want to. . . . There's just some sick people out there.”

C.W. Kim's design is exquisite, original, beautiful and unique. I would refuse to tone the design down at all. If San Diego decides it is too phallic then I am sure there are other cities which would love to have it as part of their skyline.

derek5

July 10th, 2007, 03:39 PM

The base is so ugly though.

SDfan

July 11th, 2007, 08:08 AM

C.W. Kim's design is exquisite, original, beautiful and unique. I would refuse to tone the design down at all. If San Diego decides it is too phallic then I am sure there are other cities which would love to have it as part of their skyline.

And I'm sure a good number of people here would be glad to see it go. It is unique that's for sure, exquisite and beautiful is where I diverge from you. And as for original, well let me put it this way, a lot of people seemed to recognize it from somewhere...

I give C.W. credit for trying to break the blandish canadian mold downtown, but they may want to go in another direction.

My humble opinion :D

derek5

July 11th, 2007, 09:39 PM

^Agreed.

July 12th, 2007, 09:18 PM

Shapery looks hideous imo

pgold21

July 14th, 2007, 03:53 AM

Is there a separate forum for the individual San Diego developments? This is kind of a mess. Can someone make building-specific forums like the Chicago site for example?

dl3000

July 14th, 2007, 07:28 AM

Hmm I like how this is consolidated.

audubon1946

July 14th, 2007, 01:35 PM

Is there a separate forum for the individual San Diego developments? This is kind of a mess. Can someone make building-specific forums like the Chicago site for example?

Though I am new here, I have used this forum format elsewhere. I believe you can start a new thread or topic yourself under whatever category is appropriate. You might ask the moderator, but I am pretty sure this is right.

SDfan

July 15th, 2007, 08:04 PM

Is there a separate forum for the individual San Diego developments? This is kind of a mess. Can someone make building-specific forums like the Chicago site for example?

Honestly, we don't have enough SD forumers to have a format like that. In fact this thread was dead a week ago. Chicago forumers are numerous and could support something like "building-specific forums", but not here.

And I'm pretty sure every project going up in SD is on the first page of this thread anyways, catagorized by what status they're in.

-Corey-

July 16th, 2007, 03:50 AM

Im from San DieGO :D ^^

SDfan

July 16th, 2007, 06:23 AM

Im from San DieGO :D ^^

:lol:

Oh God, the people at the C&V bureau must have patted themselves on the back for that one...

mongozx

July 17th, 2007, 03:34 AM

Some new images appeared in CCDC. . .

10th & B
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/10th&B%20%20%20C17.jpg

North side of B Street, between 10th and 11th avenues

A mixed-use project with 223 residential units, to include 215 price-restricted apartments and 8 market rate condominiums, and approximately 14,000 square feet of retail space on the north side of B Street, between Tenth and Eleventh avenues. No construction schedule has been determined.

Loft 32
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Lofts%2032-E64_Web.jpg
Southeast corner of 17th Street and Imperial Avenue

Bankers Capital Development Corporation plans to develop a 3-story building with 32 condominiums at the southeast corner of 17th Street and Imperial Avenue. Construction is scheduled to begin in late 2007 with completion targeted for spring 2009.

15th & Market
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/15+Mkt_rendering_72.jpg
648 15th Street

Lankford Associates are planning to construct a 22-story mixed-use project at 648 15th Street, the west side of 15th Street between Market and G streets. The project will contain 274 condominiums, 455 parking spaces, 371,000 square feet of residential space and approximately 25,00 square feet of retail space. Construction is scheduled to begin late 2007 with completion targeted for late 2009.

Studio 15
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Studio%2015.jpg
Housing Development Partners plan to build 275 affordable-residential units in a five story building located at the southwest corner of 15th Street and Imperial Avenue.

derek5

July 17th, 2007, 06:41 AM

15th and Market looks good.

SDfan

July 18th, 2007, 05:09 AM

Those are some moderate buildings.

Sometimes I think the slow down is a good thing.

derek5

July 18th, 2007, 11:13 PM

I just wish the Mondrian (Gregorio now) would start. The Brake Depot between Vantage Pointe and Symphony Towers is so horrifying to look at.

pgold21

July 19th, 2007, 06:06 PM

I just heard about a floating airport proposal for SD? really? common now

SDfan

July 19th, 2007, 10:11 PM

I just heard about a floating airport proposal for SD? really? common now

Yeah...

Not going to happen.

SDfan

July 19th, 2007, 10:15 PM

From the UT today...

Plan rekindles controversy
Hotel in Ballpark Village alarms housing advocates
By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

July 19, 2007

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – The biggest hotel in San Diego County is being proposed for one of the city's most-discussed downtown properties: Ballpark Village, where people expected to see swanky condominiums, offices, shops and 35,000 square feet of affordable housing next to Petco Park.

Drawings of a $1 billion, 1,650-room Marriott convention hotel are being circulated by JMI Realty, the property development company of Padres Chairman John Moores.

The 500-foot-tall, twin-tower hotel already has attracted critics. Not only had JMI earlier envisioned condominiums, it signed a 2005 agreement with a labor and affordable-housing coalition saying there was “no intention” of putting a hotel there.

Some coalition members are crying foul. They say the roughly 1,900 hotel positions created will be “poverty jobs” that will create more names for the city's affordable-housing lists. The agreement with JMI said most Ballpark Village employees would earn $10 an hour plus benefits, or more, but it's unclear whether that requirement would affect the hotel, they said.

“We obviously will oppose this hotel as vigorously as possible unless they pay a living wage,” said Richard Lawrence, co-chairman of the San Diego Affordable Housing Coalition.

Others, including city officials, are wondering what the change means for the rest of the 7-acre Ballpark Village site and what's ahead for the affordable housing promised there.

Controversial project

Ballpark Village became controversial in late 2005 after a city-brokered deal requiring JMI and its partner Lennar to include low-income housing in the project was on the verge of approval by the San Diego City Council. The developers and the labor-affordable housing coalition suddenly came forward with an alternate scenario that called for more affordable housing – but it would be elsewhere in East Village.

The compromise, after much rancor, was to put 35,000 square feet of affordable units at Ballpark Village as well as build some off-site housing. The off-site housing is now under construction.

JMI Realty President John Kratzer says his company hadn't planned a hotel until Marriott approached with a deal worth pursuing. The spirit of the agreement with the labor coalition, Kratzer said, was that if JMI changed its mind about a hotel, the coalition was free to oppose it.

“If the city doesn't want the hotel, we won't build it,” Kratzer said this week. “But it seems to me if there was an opportunity to generate $13 million or $14 million in (hotel taxes) for the city, that would be something they are interested in.”

He also said JMI is not backing away from the on-site affordable housing requirement. It will be built elsewhere on the 7 acres, as was always expected, Kratzer said.

Marriott International, based in Washington, D.C., has at least 15 properties in San Diego, including two hotels being built or proposed in downtown separate from Ballpark Village. It declined to comment on the latest project.

Rooms are welcomed

The Marriott project, which includes 60 condominiums, tops the list of at least five large hotels in the downtown pipeline. Hospitality industry officials say San Diego's booming convention business can use the beds, and the new supply might push down room rates in what has become an extremely expensive market.

“We typically are universally supportive of advancing the room inventory,” said Steve Johnson, San Diego Convention Center vice president. “It adds flexibility for our sales team to book business.”

Namara Mercer of the San Diego County Hotel-Motel Association said, “When you have an increase in room inventory, the average daily room rates may go down. But the (hotel tax) to the city will go up.”

It is also a possible signpost of the drooping housing scene downtown. Other projects once planned to be condominiums have stalled or the sites are up for sale.

With 1,650 rooms, the proposed Marriott, once completed, would be the county's largest hotel by about 25 units. The Manchester Grand Hyatt on Harbor Drive has 1,625 rooms.

Marriott calls its proposal a “convention hotel,” with 175,000 square feet of meeting space. A Hilton being built on port land across Harbor Drive follows the same concept, with 1,200 rooms and 165,000 square feet of convention space.

Johnson said the meeting space in these hotels is too small to compete with the convention center and won't derail its argument for expansion. Center officials have said the convention complex, which has 1.1 million square feet of meeting space, runs at capacity and needs more room.

Information sought

The Marriott proposal has a long way to go before heads could hit pillows.
The Centre City Development Corp., the city's downtown redevelopment agency, last week asked JMI for more information about how the hotel would affect development on the rest of the site. The developer also is asking for at least six points of departure from the site's master plan, which will require CCDC approval.

The Ballpark Village plan calls for 300,000 square feet of office space, 115,000 square feet of retail or commercial space and 35,000 square feet of affordable housing on the site. It allows the developer to decide where to put the affordable housing and whether to build condominiums or hotels. Kratzer said his company intends to meet those guidelines.

CCDC Chairman Fred Maas said he is open to considering the hotel, but that the affordable-housing commitment must be honored.

The Center on Policy Initiatives, a pro-labor think tank that was part of the Ballpark Village coalition, also is worried about commitments.

“We made a deal with them, and now they want to redo this deal,” research director Murtaza Baxamusa said.

haldcottingham

July 19th, 2007, 10:17 PM

I want a number put on "Affordable Housing" just so I'm in the know!

SDfan

July 19th, 2007, 10:19 PM

I don't think this project is going to be stalled, but there will be a fight. And I can't put my head around the whole 1 billion dollar project. Its kind of surprising, especially from Marriott which has plenty of other properties downtown.

And the other thing that caught my eye was about the convention center, how the developers are trying to make it clear that this project won't hinder plans for expansion by the SDCC. I didn't know there was any plans to begin with, thats another thing to look out for I guess.

spoonman11

July 20th, 2007, 11:46 PM

The Convention Center would like to expand because they need to keep up with the other convention-heavy cities. Any expansion on the convention center would likely result in it straddling Harbor Drive. That is probably the most likely option since there is virtually no room anywhere else except over the water which would be unlikely.

SDfan

July 23rd, 2007, 12:57 AM

UT again.

Downtown project OK'd amid concerns
By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
July 21, 2007

If there's a San Diego style of architecture, some agency board members said of the massive Navy Broadway project (shown in artist's rendering), this is it.

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – The massive Navy Broadway project won pivotal approvals from San Diego's downtown redevelopment agency yesterday – though officials worried that it might become a playground for wealthy customers of designer shops and luxury hotels, not for the average person.
The vote by a Centre City Development Corp. committee means developer Doug Manchester nearly has an approved master plan for 2.89 million square feet of hotels, offices, shops and a museum on a premier eight-block site between Harbor Drive and Pacific Highway.

The issue must return to the agency for a formal vote next week.

Four of the seven buildings he proposes also passed the first of four stages of approvals.

But construction won't begin until after several lawsuits are settled, said Perry Dealy, Manchester Development president. The cases aren't expected to be heard until year's end.

The $1.2 billion Navy Broadway project is being driven by a 1992 agreement between San Diego and the Navy, which owns the land. The Navy gave Manchester a 99-year lease to redevelop the property, but critics have argued – and sued – saying the 15-year-old agreement is outdated.
If everything goes his way, Manchester hopes to start next summer on the project's first four pieces: a new Navy headquarters, a hotel, an office building and a twin-tower hotel and office structure.

Most CCDC board members criticized and praised the master plan yesterday.
“It's still not (supermodel) Heidi Klum, but it's not a gorilla either,” Chairman Fred Maas said.

The board particularly liked the wide outdoor terraces shown on the lower floors of some buildings, which would let visitors enjoy the weather and bay views. If there's a San Diego style of architecture, some said, this is it.

The agency had green-lighted an earlier version in November, but the developer pulled it back to tweak some aspects.

One change was to narrow the central pedestrian paseo, or plaza, to 55 feet, instead of the earlier 80 to 115 feet. Some board members had felt it needed a more intimate feel.

The loudest dissenter on the board was Teddy Cruz, a visual-arts professor at the University of California San Diego. He knocked the plan for channeling visitors into the paseo, surrounded by shops, instead of toward the bayfront.

Cruz also said the museum site, at the south end, should be next to the 1.9-acre public park on the north end. If not, Cruz said, “this park just becomes the lobby for a hotel or office space.”

He also said public agencies or arts-related groups should have been given a place. “Otherwise, this will become a shopping venue, another mall, that compromises the civic character of this site.”

Board members shared some of Cruz's concerns about public access.

The focus turned to the paseo, which Manchester revealed will be lined with high-end fashion stores. If that becomes San Diego's Rodeo Drive, it may make average people feel left out, some said.

Board member Jennifer LeSar said that means the park, which the city will develop, must make residents of all classes and cultures feel welcome.

San Diego's business community came out in force to support Manchester's project. “Make our front door something to be proud of,” said Scott Alevy of the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce.

One of the few people voicing opposition was Bankers Hill resident Al Weiss.

“We've missed the basic question,” he said. “Do we want something for us, a present to the citizens of San Diego? Or do we just want to maximize the commercial development of this piece of ground?”

Rendering and layout here: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070721-9999-1m21navy.html#name

eric_burress

July 23rd, 2007, 01:41 AM

That looks nice enough. Now they just need to get the project started!

haldcottingham

July 23rd, 2007, 02:23 AM

I know I've done this before. But anybody who cares to see my San Diego photos, I've started a new thread on West Coast and Interior West(1 1/2 Days of San Diego - Photos). Thanks guys!

mongozx

July 23rd, 2007, 02:39 AM

^^ Thanks for the pics. I especially like the shots of the skyline from harbor island!

Here are the pics from the article SDFan posted:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070721/images/navy430.jpg

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070721/images/navy430.gif

Not too thrilled about it. I hope they tweek the designs more cuz this "San Diego architecture" is bland bland bland.

haldcottingham

July 23rd, 2007, 04:27 AM

^^ Thanks!

SDfan

July 23rd, 2007, 05:50 AM

If thats "San Diego architecture" then I'm a little worried.

It looks okay though.
I'm not to thrilled at the twin towers really. But I like the idea for the navy building, curvy is nice.

derek5

July 23rd, 2007, 06:26 AM

I think it looks good.

haldcottingham

July 23rd, 2007, 07:43 AM

I don't think Manchester can make everybody happy. But he sure better try! That's such a great piece of property!

pittsteelers247

July 24th, 2007, 12:01 AM

Wow I don't know why but I really like that Navy shit it looks as if it will add a lot of density to that area even though it is not that tall.

July 24th, 2007, 11:20 AM

It'll add to the skyline for sure and i dont have a huge problem with its location.
Any additional renders on the Navy Administration Complex?

jchernin

July 24th, 2007, 05:24 PM

its not perfect but its aight

SDfan

July 25th, 2007, 05:18 AM

TJ High-rise new-
Tijuana is growing up

Rising prices for land, need for security create demand for gated high-rise units
By Sandra Dibble
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

July 24, 2007

Rising higher by the day just south of the San Ysidro border crossing, the towers known as New City would draw little notice in Manhattan or Mexico City or downtown San Diego. But amid the small and tightly packed houses that hug the border, they're a surprising sight.

Tijuana's New City development proposes seven towers with swimming pools, tennis courts and an 11-foot wall surrounding the site.
After years of growing outward, Tijuana is beginning to grow upward as well. As higher land prices drive up costs, business and residential buildings are rising and changing the skyline of this sprawling city of more than 1.5 million people.

Developers tout the security of condominium life to crime-weary middle-and upper-income buyers who can't – or don't want to – move across the border to San Diego. And Mexico's falling interest rates are making mortgages appealing to growing numbers of potential buyers.

Sales agents say their clients range from retirees looking to simplify their lives, to cross-border businessmen searching for a pied-à-terre, to young families starting out, to anyone who can afford units selling from $150,000 to nearly $800,000. San Diegans looking to lower their housing costs have also been buying.

Blocks from the U.S. border, New City's plans include seven towers with swimming pools, tennis courts, meeting rooms, a sky lounge and covered parking. But one of its biggest selling points is the 11-foot-high wall surrounding the 7.5-acre site, along with video cameras, electronic access cards and the 24-hour presence of security guards.

“Everybody crosses the border to San Diego and sees something nice and different,” said Moisés Abadi, New City's Panamanian-born developer, standing recently at the foot of a future high-rise. “Why can't we have it here?”

Moises Abadi's plans for New City include what would be the tallest building in Tijuana. Tijuana first went vertical in 1982, with the completion of the 295-foot Agua Caliente towers, now a well-known emblem of the city. A quarter-century later, Abadi plans to go even higher with his main tower, to 330 feet, which would make it the tallest building in Tijuana.

Abadi's company, Truestone Properties, is behind the $120 million project, backed by a dozen investors, most of them Mexican. He has built similar projects in Mexico City, but this is his largest. Abadi says the size of the project allows him to offer numerous amenities at relatively low cost.

New City's proposal is for 500 units in seven towers. Two are under construction and expected to open in March. Abadi says 146 of the first 200 units have been sold at prices starting at $195,000. About 70 percent of the buyers are Mexicans who cross the border regularly for jobs or schools in San Diego, while 10 percent are native U.S. citizens who have decided to live in Mexico.

“Most of the Mexicans who can find a way are going to San Diego,” said Abadi, who lives in San Diego but who has purchased units in his own building and says he plans to live there. “But some cannot afford to go to San Diego, and they need more security. We have that here – nicer, cheaper, more affordable.”

Another developer, Mexico City-based Keco, is investing $21 million in a tower overlooking the golf course of Tijuana's Club Campestre. Green View Towers, set for completion in September 2009, will have as many 70 units and 27 stories. Units are priced from $240,000 to nearly $800,000, and more than a third have so far been sold, the developer said. Keco is planning a second tower nearby.

“I don't doubt for a moment that the purchasing power is there,” Keco's Naftoli Mishkin said. “And the need to feel secure grows day by day.”

Up the hill in Colinas de Agua Caliente, developer Luis Mario Islas' company, Habitamex, is planning Bosque de Agua Caliente, a gated community aimed at upper-middle-income buyers. With prices ranging from $149,000 to $399,000, the first 40-unit building is scheduled for completion in April. By 2012, the developer is hoping for a dozen buildings.

“It's becoming like Mexico City,” said Jaime García Abascal, a real estate broker in Tijuana for 35 years. “Because crime has risen, people are looking for enclosed areas in order to feel safe.”
Housing construction aimed at the middle and upper classes stagnated in Mexico after the 1994 peso devaluation, when many people defaulted on their mortgages and banks withdrew from the housing market.

“There has been a segment of the population, middle class and up, that hasn't had access to credit,” said Alfonso Díaz Gámez, El Bosque's director. “But since 2004 it has been opening up.”

These days, home mortgage rates start at 11.5 percent in Mexico, but the rate drops to 9.5 percent after about a year for those with good payment records.

For years, planned low-income developments and improvised shantytowns have been pushing Tijuana's perimeter farther and farther toward Tecate to the east and Rosarito Beach to the south. The city's housing stock is expected to increase by a record 32,000 units this year; about half of those are units that cost less than $30,000, according to the Baja California branch of Mexico's National Housing Chamber. Only a small fraction are aimed at the upper end of the city's economic scale.

Across Tijuana, speculation and scarcity have pushed up land costs. In the most desirable areas, such as near Club Campestre, land is selling for $800 to $1,000 per square meter ($107 to $133 per square foot), said García Abascal, the real estate broker.

It is difficult to find buyers who are willing to talk publicly about their purchases in the city's newest condominium projects. They say drawing attention to such a sizable investment could make them the target of kidnapping rings.

A 30-year-old kindergarten teacher interviewed at New City said her uncle moved to San Diego after a kidnapping attempt, and that friends have been robbery victims. But she has no intention of leaving Tijuana, and brightened when she talked about the three-bedroom unit she and her husband, an engineer with his own firm, are buying for $230,000 and where they hope to one day raise children.

“When I grew up, I could go out in the street and play, and there was no danger,” said the woman, born and raised in Tijuana's well-to-do Colonia Cacho. “But I wouldn't be able to do that with my children.”

One prominent Tijuana businessman who moved to Chula Vista after being kidnapped said he has purchased a unit at New City as an investment, but for the time being plans to continue living north of the border.

Abadi says his project can start the renewal of the area near the border, just as high-rise condos have helped transform downtown San Diego.

But Gabriel Martínez Ramos, coordinator of the architecture program at Tijuana's Universidad Iberoamericana, warned that the high density could strain public services and create traffic bottlenecks.

“The impact on the city is greater than the benefit that it brings,” Martínez said. Government planners have been too passive, and the high-rises risk becoming enclaves with little relationship to the surrounding neighborhoods, he said.

“The error here is that the government did not require them to build plazas, public spaces,” Martínez said. “They didn't require them to relate to the city, with parks, shops, restaurants.”

Developers say the realities of the surrounding city dictate gated communities.

“One thing is what's ideal and desirable, but another is what people want, and what the market wants,” Bosque's Gámez said.

Abadi says he has been working with the state's public service agency, the gas company and the federal electric company to increase capacity by his buildings.

Tijuana has no height limit in that area, said David Navarro, director of urban administration for the city. But the developer was required to submit a series of studies measuring environmental impact and effects on surrounding traffic. Baja California's building codes are similar to California's, and require buildings to withstand earthquakes up to an 8.6 magnitude, Navarro said.

“Ten years ago, Tijuana wasn't ready, because there wasn't enough population, and the economic facilities were not here,” Abadi said. He says his project will be just what its name states: a New City, a haven of comfort and safety, shielding its residents from the city outside.

SDfan

July 25th, 2007, 05:20 AM

That last line is tragic.

But I still like the vertical growth.

Karltj

July 25th, 2007, 07:09 AM

That last line is tragic.

But I still like the vertical growth.

Yeah, it is sad, although the project is coming up quite nicely. Check the TJ thread for updates on the progress.

SDfan

July 25th, 2007, 08:52 PM

Yeah, it is sad, although the project is coming up quite nicely. Check the TJ thread for updates on the progress.

You know I'm very interested in TJ development wise. I'm kind of hoping that the city builds something over 500ft, just because someone in this metro should. What do you think are the chances of that?

SDfan

July 25th, 2007, 09:27 PM

Karltj

July 26th, 2007, 05:18 AM

You know I'm very interested in TJ development wise. I'm kind of hoping that the city builds something over 500ft, just because someone in this metro should. What do you think are the chances of that?

Yeah, that's what I have been hoping. I haven't heard of any new tall developments on the works in TJ, except for Green view tower, which will reach about the same height as the newcity towers. Unlike SD, TJ doesn't have that 500 ft limit, so who knows, maybe soon we'll get a surprise, and TJ will end up with a really tall building.
Oh, and going back to SD, I really hope it raises the 500ft limit.

SDfan

July 26th, 2007, 06:24 AM

^^ Yeah I have given up on the height limit, its pretty much set in stone until the airport is gone. And that airport is never going away.

Lets just hope TJ comes up with something over 500ft.

mongozx

July 26th, 2007, 09:31 AM

Karltj

July 27th, 2007, 05:29 AM

I frequent TJ often and I have seen the progress of this development. 2 large towers: 1 wide & short and the other is tall and slender. The location of it is very close to the borderline entrance. About 3-4 blocks away.

I can imagine TJ, which I classify as a very dense city, building more vertically beyond its core. There are many large empty lots in the area and it only makes sense to build up and no longer these American style, 1-2 story shopping centers with medium sized parking lots.

Yes, by now the city is becoming pretty dense, the only way to go is up, oh, and I am not referring to buildings up on the hills, even land up there has been taken.
As you point out, there are some large empty lots in the business and comercial district (zona Rio). It would be nice to see a really tall, mixed-use project get built in TJ.

pgold21

July 28th, 2007, 12:58 AM

Got these from the TJ development forum of New City.

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/4545/picture1pr3.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/6808/picture2pc0.png (http://imageshack.us)

I think the site plan is terrible. Way too dense in the name of raking in cash. It just feels claustrophobic when it could have felt open and airy. Why put the extra building in the middle? With all the security problems in TJ they should have made it a community park so people could enjoy a park within the safety of their development block. Imagine all the shadows of all those buildings. How crappy. I'd be down with it if the middle were left open.

pgold21

July 28th, 2007, 12:58 AM

Or maybe some low/mid-rise condos, but not another highrise.

derek5

July 28th, 2007, 07:46 AM

It's the only pretty thing to look at when you are sitting in traffic on the Mexico side of the border for 3+ hours, I'll give it that.

mongozx

July 28th, 2007, 04:30 PM

Or maybe some low/mid-rise condos, but not another highrise.

I guess you haven't seen TJ's skyline yet. It virtually has NONE. Or a miniscule one to say the least. I gladly welcome these towers and hope there's more on the way. The city is already dense and it doesn't need something to stimulate density.

But enough about Tijuana. Did anyone notice that they've already broken ground on the new Marriott @ the Gaslamp? Beyond the recently completed Trellis condos.

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_omni_camera1/imgbuf/buf_8079/1185609696790425.jpg

bushman61988

July 28th, 2007, 07:17 PM

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RTheLoftsat707.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/TheLoftsat707.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RVantagePoint-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/VantagePoint2.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/VantagePoint-1.jpg
Construction is on the 11th floor, with almost 30 floors left to go...this tower is going to be MASSIVE...too bad it couldnt just reach the 500 foot ceiling...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RSapphire-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Sapphire2.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Sapphire-1.jpg
Construction is already up to the 2nd floor. That parking garage really took a long time...took almost a year to complete, but now the tower is on it's way up...anyone know how many feet? all they say is 32 stories...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RMark1-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Mark-1.jpg
God, the back of that tower is SO ugly! The renderings lie!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RLegend-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Legend3-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Legend2-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Legend-2.jpg
It looks like work on the exterior is pretty much finished. So what does everyone think about this tower?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RDiamondviewTower-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/DiamondviewTowerCandyFactory.jpg
They put the sign on the Candy Factory, and they also added some details to the exterior. They fixed this up real nice, though. Anyone know what this building is suppose to be used for?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RCurrent-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Current-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RConventionCenterHotel-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/ConventionCenterHotel-2.jpg
The windows look a little bit better than the renderings, i guess. But God, Why did they have to make this tower a box????

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RBreeza-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Breeza-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RBayside-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Bayside-1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RAria-1.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Aria2-2.jpg
It would look better without that box thing at the top of the building...they didnt show that in the renderings! But does anyone know why that's even necessary??

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/RArpeture-2.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/Aperture-2.jpg

by the way, here's the link to the other forum:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=126473&page=87

mongozx

July 29th, 2007, 12:07 AM

Great project updates!

Legend looks better than the Mark. All of its dimensions look aesthetically complete with the NW ends as minor exceptions (elevator shafts?) I think it actually turned out better than the renderings.

I read way back that Candy Factory will be restaurant space. Probably a Super-Hometown Buffett or Mega Applebee's. . . . . . . .just kidding.

One project's progress that I'm getting more and more interested in is Vantage Pointe. I really think it will leave a huge impression on our skyline than most think.

pgold21

July 29th, 2007, 07:21 PM

eric_burress

July 29th, 2007, 07:41 PM

^^ I agree. I have been very disappointed by most of the East Village towers. They all look rather cheap and amateurish. People at SSP complain about all the Vancouver look-alike towers, but I would gladly take a bunch of those over these turds!

ALKUN

July 29th, 2007, 08:33 PM

I FIND THOSE TOWERS NICE.

hngcm

July 30th, 2007, 12:56 AM

I left this thread for dead a while back, glad to see it still alive and kicking.

eric_burress

July 30th, 2007, 06:16 AM

I FIND THOSE TOWERS NICE.

Alta, Legend, and The Mark?

SDfan

July 30th, 2007, 07:13 AM

I left this thread for dead a while back, glad to see it still alive and kicking.

Well then, welcome back fair weather friend.

SDfan

July 30th, 2007, 07:21 AM

Thanks for the update bushman, its been a while since I've seen one here.

I have to say the East Village is turning out to be a nice nieghborhood. Sure every other high-rise looks short, white and empty but the area looks nice nontheless.

Now can anyone tell me where that box came from on Arias top? It looks awkward up there. I know its probably an elevator shaft, but really does it have to be so prominent?

SDfan

July 30th, 2007, 07:39 AM

Hey everyone, I went to comic con this saturday and shot a few pictures of the city, hope you like them.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2643ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2644ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2645ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2646ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2647ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2648ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2649ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2650ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2652ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2654ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2655ed.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2657ed.jpg

July 30th, 2007, 12:24 PM

Excellent photos

bushman61988

July 31st, 2007, 03:21 AM

The Mark is so hideous. It's really sad that we have to stare at that thing from Petco Park during every game. It looks cheap and amateurish. No real style at all. And that exposed concrete spine on the back is just sad. I'm tired of these ultra white buildings like The Mark and Legend that all look the same and seem to be unfinished. They remind me of white drywall in a place before anyone moves in. It's like these buildings are all perpetually waiting to be finished.

For the most part, I agree. A LOT of the East Village towers look alike. I mean, what's up with all that gray paneling i see on the exterior of almost all new East Village towers? The Legend, The Mark, the Omni Hotel, Diamondview Tower, TR Produce. But it beats that DREADFUL exposed concrete like on Fahrenheit....Bleh! It would be nice to see some different colored buildings...even though Icon is nothing more than a bunch of boxes stacked on top of each other, the colors really make it stand out...

But i guess they're better than nothing, and looking at how the area looked before, it definitely has changed, and I think for the better.

SDfan

July 31st, 2007, 06:55 AM

Excellent photos

Thank you. :)

spoonman11

July 31st, 2007, 07:05 AM

spoonman11

July 31st, 2007, 07:08 AM

[QUOTE=SDfan;14520667]Hey everyone, I went to comic con this saturday and shot a few pictures of the city, hope you like them.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/101_2643ed.jpg

Looks like they saved the old Spaghetti Factory building afterall. I'm proud of someone!?!

SDfan

July 31st, 2007, 07:18 AM

derek5

August 1st, 2007, 12:02 AM

They had to save it. It's historic. I wish they incorporated it into the project a little more though.

August 1st, 2007, 04:21 PM

I have lots of free time this week and i wanted to walk by some construction sites to take some pics but my camera isnt working, unfortunately:(
Hopefully i can fix it soon.

mongozx

August 1st, 2007, 05:29 PM

Comic-Con was great. I go there more for the crazy atmosphere than the actual convention. Anyone see the pack of zombies (about 30 of them) roaming the Gaslamp on Friday night? CRAZY!

Anyways, here's an article from todays UT. No renderings yet:

Little Italy project has a developer

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – Finding a parking spot in Little Italy will be a whole lot easier under a proposed development that would provide up to 700 spaces for public use on nights and weekends.
Just look for the 29-story building at the neighborhood's south end.

County supervisors unanimously selected a developer yesterday for the project – Arlington, Va.-based Clark Realty Capital – which promises a 968-space parking garage, a tower with 268 luxury apartments and 15,000 square feet of retail space.

It would be built on the west side of Kettner Boulevard, between Cedar and Beech streets. The block is currently home to a parking lot and county offices.
County officials hope the project will allow them to shift all of the surface parking at the County Administration Building, a block away on Pacific Highway, to the new parking garage. That parking would be replaced with a public park overlooking San Diego Bay.

“What's exciting is we're really on the path to deliver not one but two good projects,” Supervisor Ron Roberts said. “A rental-residential development with public parking available in Little Italy and what I think will be one of the most magnificent waterfront parks in the country.”

Roberts said he expects plans for the park to come before the county board later this year.

The 29-story project could stretch as high as 300 feet; county officials say it is far south of the flight path at nearby Lindbergh Field and meets federal regulations.

The county will now enter exclusive negotiations on the project with Clark Realty. Under the proposed agreement, Clark Realty would build the $35 million parking garage and give it to the county. Five of the garage's eight stories would be underground. The developer and county would share any revenue from public parking, but county workers would park for free.

Clark Realty would then build the luxury apartments in an adjacent 29-story tower and develop retail shops at street level.

Joe Schafstall, a development executive with Clark Realty, said the company has determined there is a demand for luxury rentals in a downtown housing market flooded with condominiums. He had no price figures for the apartments or the project as a whole.

Clark Realty Capital has had a hand in several local projects, including the expansion of the Manchester Grand Hyatt.

Not everyone is happy with the plan.

Michael Galasso, of Little Italy-based Barone Galasso & Associates, also bid on the project, proposing affordable housing units, retail space and a 613-space parking garage.

Galasso acknowledged that parking is a concern but questioned how the community's streets will handle 700 vehicles arriving each weekday morning and leaving at night under the current proposal. He also said Little Italy is a “working man's neighborhood” that desperately needs affordable housing, not luxury apartments.

Donna Alm, vice president of the Centre City Development Corp., San Diego's downtown redevelopment arm, said she was excited about any opportunity to solve one of Little Italy's biggest challenges: parking.

The proposal will eventually come before the agency for a development permit after several public hearings.

SDfan

August 1st, 2007, 08:15 PM

I'm surprised that the county didn't require some of the units to be affordable housing. Then again it is wishful thinking on my part.

August 3rd, 2007, 06:52 AM

Bonds is comming to town tomorrow. Hopefully he'll tie and break Aaron's record at Petco:yes:

derek5

August 3rd, 2007, 08:31 AM

I hope he breaks his leg.

haldcottingham

August 3rd, 2007, 05:48 PM

^^ I hope he goes into the biggest slump in baseball history and decides to retire without homering again!

ALKUN

August 6th, 2007, 09:56 PM

ANY NEWS ON THIS PROJECT ?
IS IT APPROVED YET?

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070601/images/towers280.jpghttp://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070601/images/hotels.gif

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070601/images/view430.jpg

SDfan

August 7th, 2007, 05:36 AM

^^I don't think it is going to be built anytime soon.

Sunroad is already having to take down one building, I don't see them fighting for a chance at having to take down another. Plus those plans are conceptual to begin with.

Also, if anyone from SSP wants to kindly post any updates here at SSC that would be appreciated very much.

mongozx

August 8th, 2007, 04:19 AM

Here are some updated pics of Navy Broadway Complex:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1434/1020728785_4b6d21fd81.jpg?v=0

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1153/1021595308_50a4b1fea9.jpg?v=0

Twin Tower Hotels
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1404/1020056530_61f31d6fd6.jpg?v=0

The supposed lighthouse looking building (Building 4)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1014/1020056728_fbb559da63.jpg?v=0

The Navy HQ
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1321/1019195671_9b45d718a2.jpg?v=0

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070721/images/navy430.gif

mongozx

August 8th, 2007, 04:20 AM

We should send the people at Manchester and The Irvine Company these pictures of what a real signature tower/development looks like.

San Francisco Transbay Terminal

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1243/1035676673_38da517618_o.jpg

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/9348/retrieveassetca2cvd6wik8.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/1623/dsc01107go3.jpg

http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2007/08/07/ba_transbay0708.jpg

Karltj

August 8th, 2007, 07:09 AM

Gosh, after seing the SF Transbay proposals, I can only find those updated renders of the Navy Broadway Complex trully depressant. :(

ALKUN

August 9th, 2007, 09:23 PM

When is the Navy Broadway Complex going to be builted ?
Has it been approved yet?
it's nice. I hope it will happen.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1434/1020728785_4b6d21fd81.jpg?v=0

August 11th, 2007, 01:24 AM

WTF is up with City Hall allowing these crappy projects to be build?
They're cheap and tasteless, the only thing they might fullfill is functionality and open space demand. It's really depressing when you compare them with LA and San Fran projects.
These developers must be some cheap bastards that dont wanna spend an extra dime on aesthetics of the building and hire mediocre architects to do the job.

SDfan

August 11th, 2007, 05:27 AM

Thanks for the SSP updates.
Did anyone see this by the way?

Gaylord, port talks on hotel to restart
Local labor groups hit the picket line

By David Washburn
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

August 8, 2007

Gaylord Entertainment has resumed negotiations with Chula Vista and San Diego Unified Port District officials on a $1 billion resort hotel and convention center on the Chula Vista bayfront, despite its inability to come to terms with local unions.

Port commissioners yesterday, responding to a letter Gaylord sent Thursday, agreed in closed session to continue negotiations with the Tennessee-based company. The port action came after a month-long impasse while Gaylord battled with union leaders.

On July 6, Gaylord abruptly walked away from a deal that had been two years in the making, citing unreasonable demands by the unions. Labor leaders countered by saying Gaylord could not be trusted to hire local workers on the project, and a week ago announced they no longer were negotiating with the company.

Gaylord, citing strong support from the community, has come back to the negotiating table anyway.

“As a result of the overwhelming show of community support for Gaylord's inclusion within the Chula Vista Bayfront Project, Gaylord hereby requests to continue discussions,” Gaylord Senior Vice President Bennett Westbrook wrote in a letter to port President Bruce Hollingsworth.

Westbrook also has had discussions in recent days with Chula Vista Mayor Cheryl Cox, who said she was thrilled by the response from the community.

“I'm pleased that (Gaylord) talked to me on Friday,” Cox said. “They got the message loud and clear from labor that they won't talk to them. I hope they got the other half, which is, 'I will.' ”

Labor demonstrated that it will continue to publicly oppose Gaylord at every opportunity. Yesterday, union members picketed outside the port building, and Electrical Workers Union spokeswoman Jennifer Badgley read a statement to port commissioners before they went into closed session.

“I think their definition of community is different from mine,” Badgley said later. “The only community I've seen around Gaylord is chamber of commerce types and developer front groups.”

The unions want Gaylord to agree to a “project labor agreement,” which is a contract between the developer and unions saying the project will be built by union workers.

These agreements are common in the construction world, but not universal. Gaylord has avoided them in other hotel and convention center projects it has built in Texas and Florida, and one that it is building in Maryland.

Gaylord's last proposal offered a “modified” project labor agreement that would give union contractors first dibs to bid on jobs, and preference to local workers, but not require the company to use only union contractors and local labor.
Local officials have not put a timetable on the renewed talks with Gaylord, but Cox and port commissioner Mike Najera, who represents Chula Vista, said they were “moving along” before being derailed by the labor issues.

“This is a positive step, but we still have a lot of work to do to bring this to fruition,” Najera said.

Central to the negotiations is the completion of the environmental impact report for the Chula Vista Bayfront Master Plan, which has been in the works for years, and agreements on a lease for port-owned land and financing arrangements.

So far, officials have outlined a $308 million public subsidy for the project, probably paid through bonds and revenue generated by the development.

Officials say the project has the potential to increase revenue for Chula Vista by 10 percent; add 3,000 new, permanent jobs; and serve as a springboard for other commercial and residential developments.

eric_burress

August 13th, 2007, 01:12 AM

I like the NBC buildings and while the Irvine tower is far from being "signature," what does anyone expect? It's impossible to do "signature" with a 500ft height limit.

derek5

August 13th, 2007, 04:59 AM

I'm glad the Gaylord project is being talked about again.

Karltj

August 14th, 2007, 06:57 AM

I'm glad the Gaylord project is being talked about again.

Me too, hopefully they'll come up with a reasonable solution that will work for both Gaylord and the Union workers.

mongozx

August 14th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Someone posted some nice pics of our downtown here in SSP:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=136277

When is the Navy Broadway Complex going to be builted ?

Navy Broadway Complex is a sure thing. The issue here is that the architecture is considered less than stellar for that prominent location right by the waterfront. I personally think it's hideous and I could've done better.

SDfan

August 14th, 2007, 11:28 PM

Thanks for the photo link mongo.

Question for everyone: What do you think the chances of SD getting a new city hall/civic center are?

Im glad sanders is pushing the idea, but I don't know how much of a reality it is, any opinions?

August 15th, 2007, 12:44 AM

I think the current building looks fine

http://www.emporis.com/files/transfer/sixwm/2006/10/491572.jpg

SDfan

August 15th, 2007, 05:56 AM

The picture is a no show.

And if its the county/city admin building on the bayfront, you are correct, it is fine.
If its the civic center-city hall in the columbia/core district...we have different ideas of what looks good. ;)

August 15th, 2007, 10:42 AM

Slight confusion:D
Civic Center does looks hideous, i live up in 4th ave so i pass by there daily. Deffinitely agree with you, a new building is needed.

passion4architecture

August 16th, 2007, 11:32 AM

I just had a good look at the Navy/Broadway Complex design.... in short IT'S ABSOLUTELY UNINSPIRING!!! IMO, w/ a design like that it WILL NOT give SD the skyline boost it rightfully deserves!!! It's a GEM of a WATERFRONT LOCATION, I hope the design is not FINAL, and w/ be re-designed!! It's not really the height, but the design can be so much more unique, distinctive and... well... have the "signature" qualities to stand out. Apparently the Developers haven't heard of "Deconstructivism" style of Architecture... or are simply playing it safe. And I guess they've haven't considered names like Calatravas, Ando, Rogers, Ito, Nouvel, Koolhas, Hadid or Rashid... either! The SF Tower is a good example. A quick look at what's coming up in London, Barcelona, Dubai, Beijing, Rotterdam, Singapore... and even Buenos Aires.. is good idea for design reference. The beautiful San Diego by the Bay deserves better!! Probably Northern America's largest Urban Redevelopment of its size, I'd think. So make the Waterfront Proud, and give SD a Signature Edifice/Complex it can call its own. ciao tutti, Dian

eric_burress

August 18th, 2007, 07:17 AM

Generally speaking, SD couldn't do "signature" even if it wanted to because of its height limit. Even SF's gorgeous Transbay tower would look like a turd when shrunken down to <500ft.

I happen to like the NBC buildings a lot though and think they're about as good as can be expected under the circumstances. Plus, they will be much more timeless than some of that Calatravas garbage.

SDfan

August 19th, 2007, 12:16 AM

SDfan

August 19th, 2007, 12:24 AM

I have some updates from SSP (I really need an account there).

These first four images have been distorted and the buildings are actually taller then they appear. I think the website where they are from squated them to fit there page. But anyways,

grigio (mondrian)
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/grigiort6.jpg

707 lofts
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/707loftspk4.jpg

6th&palm (Bankers Hill)
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/6thpalmfp0.jpg

Monaco
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/untitled.jpg

and heres a picture of Monaco from sd_urban who took this at the downtown info center
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/IMG_9855.jpg

I think that the this building has a lot of potential. Too bad the styrofoam doesn't show the balconies that will be crawling up and down this structure.

August 20th, 2007, 01:41 AM

I actually have to disagree with you eric. I believe SD can have a signature tower with the height limit

Especcially if you build it near the bay, not amidst other tall buildings of downtown.
The tower has to be visible from a 180% angle.

mongozx

August 20th, 2007, 09:36 AM

Monaco looks good! BUILD the mutha f^%$er!!!

Here's a Sunday article from the UT:

Condo growth slowing down

Construction costs, stricter lending rules blamed; some projects sold, others are redesigned
By Jeanette Steele

The ugly side of San Diego's condominium downturn is on display along Fifth Avenue.

The bones of what was supposed to be Atmosphere, nearly 80 “luxury live/work units for a life well-designed,” sit open to public view. Naked steel rods and yawning holes are in the earth. The wood and chain-link fence around the site looks like it has been pried open in a couple of places.

Atmosphere is one of two downtown San Diego condo projects that started then stalled. The developer of Triangle, at 14th Street and Imperial Avenue, demolished an old warehouse and then stopped. It's a parking lot now.

The rest of the tale is told in the quarterly status log of Centre City Development Corp., which oversees downtown redevelopment. Five condo projects with development permits are up for sale or recently sold. Four more in the development pipeline are being redesigned; at least one of those is changing to a hotel. The downtown agency finally closed the file on another condo proposal after the builder stopped calling or submitting documents.

It's a whiplash change of pace for the once white-hot downtown residential market. A year ago, giant construction cranes were mostly there to build condos. Many cranes that remain will be diverted to different kinds of projects – increasingly, hotels.

Downtown residents give this trend mixed reviews.

The site of what was supposed to be almost 80 "luxury live/work units for a life well-designed" at Fifth Avenue between Beech and Ash streets.
George Tybor would much rather see a new condo going up in his Marina district neighborhood than a site with nothing happening.

“As lots stay empty, they become homes for the homeless and a potential for increased crime,” Tybor said.

Joyce Summer, a Cortez Hill resident, said her worst fear is towers left halfway finished.

On the other hand, Gary Smith of the Downtown Residents Group said a slowdown gives the city time to catch up.

Downtown San Diego had 17,000 residents in 2000. The roughly 30,000 residents living downtown today still are waiting for parks and other public amenities that most city neighborhoods have.

“This gives us a little breathing space,” Smith said.

The buzz these days is about hotels, with six major hospitality ventures being proposed along the waterfront. Offices also have shown some spark: The Irvine Co. is getting permits for a 34-story office tower and Manchester Development's plan for four office buildings was just approved.

Downtown condominium builders appear to be in a holding pattern.

One factor is banks are getting stricter on lending money; they want developers to put more of their own cash into condo projects, now that the real estate boom is over.
Another reason for the condo slowdown is skyrocketing construction prices, which have made new housing projects look less profitable.

San Diego's position as one of the top five travel destinations in the nation makes the city a hot market for hotels, according to the San Diego Convention & Visitors Bureau.

Downtown hotels are running about 75 percent full, and the average room price is $182.73 a night, up 6 percent from last year. The convention center is basically booked solid, officials say.

“All that adds up to a very healthy hotel market and one of the strongest in the country,” said David Peckinpaugh, visitors bureau president.

Some residential builders say they are waiting until the current glut of new condos is sold out. They hope to position themselves to be first with new units when the market, in theory, swings upward again.

“Sometime this fall or early next winter, you're going to see several projects start,” said Sherm Harmer, chairman of the Downtown Residential Marketing Alliance, a developer group.

Not everyone thinks the condo market will spring back quite so fast.

San Diego real estate economist Gary London said the downtown skyline won't see many new residential towers for at least four years.

“There is a pipeline of 9,000 units of projects that are planned after this year – most of which won't be built,” London said.

The good news for developers – but not for bargain-hunting consumers – is that prices on new condo units, while no longer meteoric, have not taken a steep dive.

In the second quarter of this year, the median new home price in the downtown ZIP code was $411,500, according to DataQuick Information Services. In 2006, that figure was $437,000; in 2005, it was $408,750; and in 2004 it was $439,000. Geography is playing a role in a developer's degree of bullishness.

Bosa Development Corp. owns five parcels fairly close to North Embarcadero. Developer Nat Bosa intends to break ground next year on a condo tower at Kettner Boulevard and Ash Street, a spokesman said.

Another Bosa project called Bayside, at Pacific Highway and Ash Street, is under construction and completion is expected in 2009. Luxury units in that building began selling in February. The starting price was $750,000.

“When you are building higher-end units on 'A' locations, that buyer is less apt to be concerned about . . . short-term ramifications of prices dropping 5 percent, 6 percent,” said Bosa sales and marketing director Dennis Serraglio. “They know that, long term, great locations in a great city are irreplaceable.”

It's another story in the East Village. Intracorp said its Triangle condo project was a little premature.

“It's in an area that will do better with a little time,” said company President William Nichols.

The leader of the pack in condo redesign is probably the Elle, once proposed as a 173-unit housing project on A Street in Little Italy.

The Elle is now Columbia Tower, a 364-room hotel proposed by a new owner. The hotel will include 63 condo units.

Urban Housing Partners, Harmer's company, recently changed the land-use designation for its Library Tower project, once envisioned as 174 condos in a slender tower at Park Boulevard and K Street.

Harmer said his company is considering a boutique hotel or condo-hotel combination at the site, which is close to a huge Marriott convention hotel proposal.

Back at the Atmosphere site on Fifth, some downtown dwellers have complained that the stalled project's leftovers are unsightly and unsafe.

The downtown redevelopment agency forwarded those objections to the city's code enforcement unit, but an enforcement officer who checked it out said no city regulations have been violated.

The architect for the “live/work units” said the delay is in part caused by the death of the original developer. The site has gone through four owners since then, said David Hawkins of the Hawkins Hawkins Anderson firm.

The current one – who purchased the land in February, according to county records – plans to move ahead this month or next, Hawkins said. The project is still envisioned as condos.

eric_burress

August 20th, 2007, 06:56 PM

I actually have to disagree with you eric. I believe SD can have a signature tower with the height limit, a good example being the lipstick building in New York. Its 435ft tall and considered an icon.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/Lipstick_Building.jpg

Maybe you're right, but I have never ever seen or heard of that building before you posted it, which kinda illustrates my point!! hahahaha :lol:

Granted, the fact that it's in NYC and hidden behind a sea of bigger and/or better buildings doesn't help its signature status...and it probably would stand out better if it were in another, smaller city.

SDfan

August 20th, 2007, 07:19 PM

Maybe you're right, but I have never ever seen or heard of that building before you posted it, which kinda illustrates my point!! hahahaha :lol:

Granted, the fact that it's in NYC and hidden behind a sea of bigger and/or better buildings doesn't help its signature status...and it probably would stand out better if it were in another, smaller city.

It is located in a very tall city, so it is hidden. But believe me, if this structure was in our city, or any city near our size it would be an icon (which it is in New York from what I've read. I guess you'd kind of have to pay attention to other structures in that city other then their tallests). I still don't think a structure needs to be over 500ft to be considered signature. It just needs to have the right design and location.

eric_burress

August 21st, 2007, 02:18 AM

Bosa Development Corp. owns five parcels fairly close to North Embarcadero. Developer Nat Bosa intends to break ground next year on a condo tower at Kettner Boulevard and Ash Street, a spokesman said.

Spoonman on SSP posted these renderings of the GORGEOUS Bosa tower.

http://www.amanatarchitect.com/images/kettner-east.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development/kettnernight2.jpg

mongozx

August 22nd, 2007, 04:36 PM

^^ How is it gorgeous? It looks typical Bosa to me. Not really a bad thing nor good.

SDfan

August 22nd, 2007, 05:05 PM

I really just like the glass covering. It is a rectangle, and I don't know what that corner hole is doing. But the glass, I approve of.

eric_burress

August 23rd, 2007, 08:43 PM

^^ How is it gorgeous? It looks typical Bosa to me. Not really a bad thing nor good.

The fact that I generally like Bosa's buildings (this one in particular) and that it's not one of those TURD proposals we've seen lately (e.g., everything proposed by the firm who designed the Spinnaker) is how.

sterlling

August 24th, 2007, 04:47 AM

I would guess that most people would be happy with a One America Plaza or Emerald Plaza type building in San Diego as a "signature" structure. Both are within our cities height limit and both are now considered good "signatures" of our city. The height limit stands for now so developers have to deal with it. Is it harder to develop a "signature" building within 500ft.? Yes. Is it impossible? No.

It may be that the first building to surpass that 500ft. limit won't be in the downtown area at all. There are other areas in our county with no height limits...

I do think that the NBC has improved with each stage so far. You can't expect all of it to be "signature" buildings. Which ones need the most work?

mongozx

August 25th, 2007, 05:41 AM

The fact that I generally like Bosa's buildings (this one in particular) and that it's not one of those TURD proposals we've seen lately (e.g., everything proposed by the firm who designed the Spinnaker) is how.

HOW DARE YOU! I HAPPEN TO LIKE SPINNAKER!

Here's to hoping for some unique buildings in our skyline!:cheers:

derek5

August 25th, 2007, 07:38 PM

I like Spinnaker too.

SDfan

August 26th, 2007, 06:11 AM

HOW DARE YOU! I HAPPEN TO LIKE SPINNAKER!

Here's to hoping for some unique buildings in our skyline!:cheers:

:hilarious

I'm sorry and no offense, but thats like someone saying they fully support building a mini Statue of Liberty in SD because of the originallity of the idea.

If it ain't the actually building from Dubai, then I don't want the Spinnaker. No one likes a cheap knock-off. Well almost no one, ;)

As for NBC complex...its a very...interesting proposal. I think I would prefer it if it were covered in billboards and jumbotrons just to make a bit timesquare-ish. Plus that whole "lighthouse inspired" building doesn't really remind me of a lighthouse in any way.

I'm just waiting for 7th and market. Glass come sooner!

mongozx

August 26th, 2007, 11:04 AM

Alright let me explain myself here. When I said "unique" I meant unique to the San Diego skyline. Right now there are zero, zilch, NADA buildings in our skyline that are eye catching. And NO, One America Plaza, Emerald, or the Hyatt towers don't qualify.

Now if Spinnaker gets built it would definitely give the skyline a focal point given its location and different shape. Our skyline would be a bit more recognizable to outsiders. It isn't a gorgeous building to most of you. But it does break the monotony of these countless rectangles scattered all over downtown. Bottom line is that Spinnaker would make a positive impression on our skyline. Nothing less.

I also don't get why many of the SD forummers here and SSP think Spinnaker is ugly and the boring BOSA proposals aren't. Is everyone here for a bland, forgetful skyline? And where does one think that it's Dubaish? Trust me guys, having travelled and extensively explored Dubai for a month a few years back, there is nothing that screams Dubai about the building. No outsiders will ever go "What a Dubai rip-off!"

Spinnaker is shaped like a sail. Is it that intimidating to most of you? Is the concept really that crazy for us ultra-conservative San Diego folks? What's so awfully tacky about it?

http://img89.echo.cx/img89/1566/spinnakerhotel8dg.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/kimprojectsst9.png

Karltj

August 26th, 2007, 08:15 PM

You tell them Mongozx, I totally agree with you. Spinnaker may not have a beautiful and harmonious design, but, for God's sake at least it looks interesting and different from many other, conservative and BORING buildings already in DT. Also, it will add a nice variety to SD's skyline, so...
Built it! along with that other penis shape building :)

mongozx

August 26th, 2007, 08:51 PM

^^Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I'm beginning to think that if a proposal is way too different in design and NOT a compromised glass rectangle like the other 100 buildings in downtown then San Diegans will think:

a) it's too tacky like the SF's Transamerica Pyramid or Malmo's "Turning Torso"

b) it's a copycat imposter (while Bosa's buildings aren't)

c) it's shaped like a penis or a vagina and has pornographic implications

SDfan

August 26th, 2007, 09:40 PM

God knows that we don't need anymore sail-inspired structures and fixtures downtown. I don't find that architecture intimidating, just highly overdone. I mean really, I had no idea there was a connection between San Diego and sailing...it isn't like there is a bay full of boats right next to downtown.

I guess this is why the Spinnacker looks like a "sail". The architects really want to drive in the idea that SD needs to be connected to the water more. Not that being next to it isn't enough.

My other major problem with this structure is that it is short and wide, which is typical San Diego. You might as well build a square on the water front then try to pass this Burj al-Arab wannabe here. Problem is, the Burj al-arab tower actually looks good and doesn't try to steal another architectual gem the sydney opera house, with that odd pealing crown--which let me guess, was inspired by a nautical theme. *points for me*

Lastly if you're going to have to build another bay-blocking hotel on the water front it might as well be tall and thin. I don't know its exact width, but its length needs to be shortend. Its height (around 300ft from what I last read) is way to short IMO. Especially for its location, which has to be what, 5ft from mean sea-level? Think of it, a 495ft building downtown, tall and slender and right up against the waterfront. It would appear much taller then it would be (unlike the spinnacker which much like the hyatts would probably appear much shorter then they actually are). And hopefully with no maritime themes since it wouldn't need any already being next to a marina.

If people are going to sit back and say "well its different then BOSA so we should take it" then fine. Accept it. When someone proposes a giant boot downtown then take that too. Might as well cling support for the giant phallas as well.

SDfan

August 26th, 2007, 09:52 PM

While we're on the topic of proposed hideous buildings on our bayfront, I found this article entertaining.

Ugly, metal warehouse on the bay? I think not!
UNION-TRIBUNE
August 26, 2007

Cargo containers, those long steel boxes designed to be loaded on ships and freight trains, enjoy a curious popularity in some quarters.

A lot of folks in the backcountry like to use them as storage sheds – big, ugly storage sheds. But neighbors complained so much about these hulking metal eyesores that a law was passed banishing them from front yards.

In San Diego, we think of the waterfront as our front yard. So it came as something of a shock this month when the Port Commission decided that Broadway Pier would be the perfect place to plop down the equivalent of a humongous cargo container.

In fairness to Port officials, none of them use the term “humongous cargo container.” They prefer “pre-engineered metal building.” Same thing, I say.

The metal structure they have in mind would be about 40 feet high, 70 feet wide and 400 feet long. It would serve as a second cruise ship terminal, a place for seafaring tourists to disembark with bulging wallets and return, hours later, with bulging shopping bags.

Port commissioners approved the idea knowing little more about the structure than what you now do. There are no designs, just a sketch of what looks like a sinister warehouse, the sort where hostages are held in kung fu movies.
Bear in mind, this site is at the foot of downtown, with our sparkling bay as its backdrop.

Compounding the indignity, the Port says this tin monstrosity will be a permanent addition to the waterfront, not, as earlier claimed, a temporary structure to be torn down once the B Street terminal is remodeled.

Then there's this: Whenever a cruise ship is in port, which at a minimum means every weekend from September to May, the pier would be closed to the public for security purposes. So expectations that Broadway Pier would soon provide downtown some much-needed open space have been dashed.

And wait, it gets even better: Construction must begin in January. So a Miami architect is racing against the clock to design in months something that San Diegans will have to live with for decades.

The architect does not have a big budget. But Rita Vandergaw, the Port's director of marketing, said that an awful lot can be done with paint and colored lighting.

“Your imagination can run wild with this,” Vandergaw said to me, inviting trouble.

Before that happens, I should point out that others have been imagining the future of the waterfront for many years, and at no point did their imaginings include this pre-engineered metal building.

Rather, they imagined Broadway Pier as a public open space with a platform for viewing San Diego Bay and for peering down Broadway into the heart of the city.

The thinking was that if the Padres ever won the World Series, the victory parade would proceed down a skyscraper-lined Broadway and finish up at the pier, where adoring fans would cheer the world champions in a public plaza.

Port officials evidently imagine that parade a little differently: a long line of convertibles being driven to a chop shop.

Now, normally I avoid reading any document with the word “visionary” in its title.

But the best ideas for Broadway Pier are spelled out in the North Embarcadero Visionary Plan, a $228 million waterfront master plan that the city and the Port have approved already.

Apparently when the Port gave its approval, its fingers were crossed.

Included is a conceptual design for Broadway Pier that has been around for about five years. It shows a golden pier where people stroll among decorative silver towers, some of which are topped with tall silver plumes like you might see on dancers in a floor show at the Copacabana.

It's not my cup of tea, but neither is a patchwork of garage doors, no matter how colorfully they are painted.

Vandergaw and I looked at the conceptual design together.

“It was just an illustration,” she explained. “People believe that that was what was promised, but it's just an illustration.”

Port communications director Irene McCormack looked at the drawing and, in the scolding tone that a dog owner uses to admonish a pet, said, “Bad drawing.”

I'm glad we can keep a sense of humor through what seems to be another example of shoddy planning in San Diego.

It's in that spirit that I've taken up Vandergaw on her offer and let my imagination run wild:

I see a metal warehouse on Broadway Pier. I see 3-foot-high letters painted on both sides. I see these words: “We consider this building worthy of San Diego Bay,” followed by the names of every port commissioner who voted for it.

Build it my way, and I see it coming down within a couple of years.

Robert Stark

August 27th, 2007, 05:20 AM

Robert Stark

August 27th, 2007, 05:21 AM

http://www.cmrhousing.com/components/images/hotels/SDHY.jpg

thats pretty Iconic.

SeaGuy

August 28th, 2007, 12:16 AM

I will be traveling to San Diego next month for a conference and will be staying at the Solamar. I know that area is flush with restaurants and retail. Can you guys give me a few suggestions of great restaurants to dine at while I'm there? I would really appreciate it. I'm from Seattle and so I especially like fusion type places (very popular up here). Thanks!

mongozx

August 28th, 2007, 06:15 AM

^^ Fusion style restaurants, while also very popular in San diego, is surprisingly scarce in the Gaslamp. The area is full of one-type cuisines from Italian to Persian, from sushi-bars to steakhouses.

I'd say Mister Tiki's on 5th would be your best bet. It takes on a polynesian theme but I think it's what you'd be looking for.Another pure fusion style eatery would be Kemo-Sabe in Hillcrest which is about a 3 mile drive north. All the fusion style restaraunts in SD are concentrated in La Jolla, Pacific Beach, and the other northern beachtowns. . . about a 15-20 minute drive. My personal favorites would be Roppongi in La Jolla and Cafe Japengo in UTC.

eric_burress

August 28th, 2007, 06:39 AM

http://img89.echo.cx/img89/1566/spinnakerhotel8dg.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/Jaygergon/downtown%20development%203/kimprojectsst9.png
I'm sorry, but everything this firm has put out looks like absolute garbage! Unique architecture doesn't have to look like shit. And frankly, many of the world's great cities' architecture really isn't that unique anyway (i.e., lots of similar-looking buildings).

bushman61988

August 28th, 2007, 07:12 AM

http://www.cmrhousing.com/components/images/hotels/SDHY.jpg

thats pretty Iconic.

You have GOT to be kidding...you're being sarcastic, right??? please tell me you are...

I completely agree with mongozx, well said, man, unique architecture doesn't scare me one bit... and in my opinion I don't see any structures in downtown San Diego that have a real "nautical" theme, the architects and brochures just claim they're nautical...

Someone name one Real, true nautical tower...does the Manchester Hyatt towers really qualify as "nautical"?? One America Plaza? The Grande? The only real thing I know of that's nautical is the Convention Center, and MAYBE the simple but beautiful blue Marriott towers...just stunning...

SeaGuy

August 28th, 2007, 11:01 PM

Thanks mongozx for the suggestions!

Robert Stark

August 29th, 2007, 05:53 AM

You have GOT to be kidding...you're being sarcastic, right??? please tell me you are...

I completely agree with mongozx, well said, man, unique architecture doesn't scare me one bit... and in my opinion I don't see any structures in downtown San Diego that have a real "nautical" theme, the architects and brochures just claim they're nautical...

Someone name one Real, true nautical tower...does the Manchester Hyatt towers really qualify as "nautical"?? One America Plaza? The Grande? The only real thing I know of that's nautical is the Convention Center, and MAYBE the simple but beautiful blue Marriott towers...just stunning...

the picture isn't to exciting but I've been there and it is impressive.

Songoten2554

August 31st, 2007, 06:40 AM

is the trolley is going to expand to the airport of san diego and to the beaches and more communties and is there going to be a downtown type of streetcar or something?

derek5

September 1st, 2007, 08:08 AM

There is supposed to be a downtown streetcar running by next year.

There are also plans to extend the trolley from Old Town to UTC.

-Corey-

September 2nd, 2007, 07:20 AM

And there is also plans for a new line, the "Silver LIne"
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/San_Diego_Trolley_Silver_Line.jpg

SDfan

September 2nd, 2007, 07:20 PM

^^When did that pop-up?

derek5

September 3rd, 2007, 07:30 PM

The Silver Line is the streetcar line.

hngcm

September 4th, 2007, 01:15 AM

i dont see the point of it but whatever

derek5

September 6th, 2007, 06:34 AM

It's for a transit meeting or something like that taking place here in 2008.

I guess it is just to impress the attendees.

I like it though, it's different (for San Diego at least).

mongozx

September 12th, 2007, 05:21 AM

arrrrrgh! I'm digging this thread up from the grave! I'll probably do a ccdc webcam update tomorrow.

SDfan

September 12th, 2007, 08:40 AM

Anyone notice the San Diego buildings in the SSC celebration banner?

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/11.jpg

I did!!

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa313/SDfan13/112.jpg

derek5

September 13th, 2007, 02:23 AM

^Nice catch!

hngcm

September 13th, 2007, 09:04 AM

...they're so...insignificant :cry:

dl3000

September 13th, 2007, 10:16 AM

^Alas...they are. I wondered if it was my imagination, Im glad someone else saw what I was seeing. Looks totally to scale too. Wow supertalls are fat. Also the Silver Line I think will run vintage streetcars like the Embarcadero/Market line in San Francisco. I think itll give some nice character to Downtown.

Robert Stark

September 14th, 2007, 01:10 AM

any new suburban developments in SD County?

derek5

September 14th, 2007, 01:23 AM

5 story medical center in Carmel Mountain Ranch, plus plans for a new Sony developmental headquarters or something in Rancho Bernardo.

eric_burress

September 14th, 2007, 10:56 PM

Intuit (my company) just moved into their new campus on Hwy 56 in August. It's 4 4 story buildings.

derek5

September 16th, 2007, 09:22 PM

I've seen those. Where was the old one?

-Corey-

September 17th, 2007, 12:59 AM

Is the height restriction for the whole county of San Diego??

dl3000

September 17th, 2007, 03:25 AM

Just all of downtown. There are other restrictions near other airfields. My guess would be that beyond that if anyone decided to build something huge they'd treat it on a case by case basis.

plucky972

September 17th, 2007, 05:51 PM

Have you guys seen this yet?

http://www.myspace.com/raisethelimit

SDfan

September 17th, 2007, 07:39 PM

Interesting article I found on SSP...

California's Best And Worst Big City Downtowns
18 July 2007 - 10:24pm
There are few places more exciting than the pulsing downtown of a big city. There is a vitality and diversity that is palpable. Sure, it might be kind of noisy and dirty and crowded. But there is so much going on — commerce, entertainment, education, travel, socializing — that it’s easy to overlook the grime and congestion.

At the same time, there are few places more depressing than the forgotten downtown of a struggling big city. Those downtowns have the dirt, but the noise and crowds are gone. In their wake is crime, poverty, and the only thing that’s palpable is a sense of hopelessness.

Of course, things are not black and white. Downtown in City A is not ideal in every way and without problems, while City B’s downtown is totally pathetic and beyond salvage. Manhattan may be the center of the world, but it has problems, starting with a lack of decent housing that’s affordable on working class wages. Downtown Cleveland may be literally the poster child for a burned-out, abandoned central city. Yet there is new investment, including sparkling sports venues and a smattering of new housing.

Determining the “best” downtowns is, of course, entirely subjective. Sure, you could count the number of jobs or museums or nightclubs with live music. But simply selecting the quantifier is a subjective exercise. Determining the “best” downtown is more of a seat-of-the-pants exercise. What does it feel like to be there?

Within most states, there is little competition among big city downtowns because most states have only one or two big cities. California has no fewer than 11 cities of at least 300,000 people. (From north to south: Sacramento, Oakland, San Francisco, San Jose, Fresno, Bakersfield, Los Angeles, Long Beach, Anaheim, Santa Ana and San Diego.) Some of these are world-class cities with dynamic downtowns. Some of these are the butts of many jokes. Some are both.

Here then is the California Planning & Development Report ranking of the best and worst.

Best Big-City (300,000-plus) Downtown in California:

1. San Francisco. A recent story in the Economist magazine, which was not altogether flattering of The City By The Bay, said, “San Francisco is, indeed, one of America’s most alluring and urbane spots. Next to it, every other big city in California resembles a glorified suburb.”

One of the issues, however, is identifying San Francisco’s “downtown.” The Financial District is the core of downtown, but that’s mostly a gigantic employment center. We also view Chinatown, SoMa, Nob Hill, the Tenderloin and the Civic Center as part of downtown. When you consider this larger area, it’s hard to identify what could possibly be lacking – except maybe the aforementioned decent affordable housing. There are a wide variety of jobs, first-rate museums, maybe the best live theater west of New York City, world-class restaurants, popular public gather spaces, varied architecture, shopping, a scenic waterfront, public institutions and great transit. There is even a baseball stadium and growing UC campus nearby.

1. (TIE) San Diego. It probably looks like we chickened out, but we really can’t decide which is better. Twenty years ago, San Diego wouldn’t have been a contender. But since then it has become a downtown of unusual grace and sophistication. Beginning in the 1980s with the Horton Plaza shopping mall – admittedly a bit garish – downtown San Diego has turned into exactly the kind of lively 24/7 location planners always dream of. Horton Plaza kick-started the revitalization of the adjacent Gaslamp district, an historic area that is now home to the city’s nightlife. The Gaslamp, in turn, spawned a huge construction boom in high-rise condos. There’s the requisite baseball park, of course, but best of all San Diego had the first – and still the best – urban Ralphs’ market anywhere.

3. Long Beach. For decades, downtown Long Beach was simply a place with potential. Many of the city’s aggressive redevelopment efforts either backfired or didn’t fire at all. A long-struggling, enclosed shopping mall was a cancer. A no-man’s-land of vacant lots cut off downtown from the waterfront. But much of this has started to change in recent years. The mall is gone. Ethnic restaurants and shops are everywhere, often underneath new loft residences. Entertainment venues have filled in the no-man’s-land and now connect downtown hotels, shops, offices and eateries with a great waterfront. There may be no West Coast downtown that is a more enjoyable place to be a pedestrian.

4. Los Angeles. Yes, downtown L.A. has been on the comeback for, oh, 50 years. It’s still very much a work in progress and it’s not necessarily an inviting place after hours. But while the redevelopment work continues, a lively, incredibly international community has taken over much of downtown. A walk down Broadway will have you in Korea one minute and El Salvador the next. Downtown L.A. has great restaurants and watering holes, the new Disney concert hall, the most remarkable cathedral built in America in many years, Staples Center, both classic and cutting edge architecture, and even new housing.

Worst Big-City Downtown in California:

Fresno. It’s really not even close. Bakersfield, Oakland and Anaheim all have less-than-ideal downtowns, but none of those districts is as desperate, depressing and even threatening as downtown Fresno. The hideous 1970s office buildings are the least of the problems in Fresno’s core. The place is one gigantic real estate “opportunity,” and it’s usually deserted after 6 o’clock. Yes, there is a nice new minor league baseball stadium, but that’s about the only reason locals willingly go downtown.

http://www.cp-dr.com/node/1732

derek5

September 18th, 2007, 02:51 AM

Have you guys seen this yet?

http://www.myspace.com/raisethelimit

I would add it, but there isn't an add button.:bash:

yerfdog

September 18th, 2007, 05:47 AM

I would add it, but there isn't an add button.:bash:
Well technically there is, it's just invisible. It's in that black outline of a rectangle on the left side that just looks like background. Which is stupid.

yeah, and the layout is terrible. Why not just make it reasonably narrow and small text so it's readable?

derek5

September 18th, 2007, 06:01 AM

I found it. ;)

-Corey-

September 18th, 2007, 09:49 AM

I didnt know that Boston and Miami change the height limit..

September 21st, 2007, 11:10 PM

San Diego's banner is up right now:banana:

-Corey-

September 22nd, 2007, 12:45 AM

One more time
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/headers/21.jpghttp://ugly.plzdiekthxbye.net/small/s122.gif

mongozx

September 22nd, 2007, 03:07 AM

One more time
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/headers/21.jpghttp://ugly.plzdiekthxbye.net/small/s122.gif

Not to sound too nit-picky as I'm glad that our skyline is being showcased, but I don't like that view of our skyline (from Glorietta Park in Coronado)

I much prefer the view of the skyline from Pt. Loma where it looks grander and much denser.

dl3000

September 22nd, 2007, 04:37 AM

I agree but I like that its up.

derek5

September 22nd, 2007, 11:01 AM

Imagine that in 15 years.

September 23rd, 2007, 01:45 AM

Not to sound too nit-picky as I'm glad that our skyline is being showcased, but I don't like that view of our skyline (from Glorietta Park in Coronado)

I much prefer the view of the skyline from Pt. Loma where it looks grander and much denser.

Yep, totally agree. It looks less significant from that particular angle.

ASupertall4SD

September 24th, 2007, 02:23 AM

how about this for next time?

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5117/sandiegodq5.png

derek5

September 24th, 2007, 03:06 AM

Submit it! :)

ASupertall4SD

September 24th, 2007, 03:35 AM

i don't know how

-Corey-

September 24th, 2007, 03:40 AM

I a gree, submit it.. :)

September 24th, 2007, 04:33 AM

Dont know if they accept anymore banners but you can submit it at the About Forums section or maybe try contacting one of the mods.

derek5

September 24th, 2007, 05:26 AM

Did you make that?

mongozx

September 26th, 2007, 07:43 AM

how about this for next time?

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5117/sandiegodq5.png

Now that's a view! Denser and much prettier.

There's good news about the forgotten "Strata" project in East Village. It turns out they're going forward with the project but will be luxury condiminiums. :banana:

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Strata_Final.jpg

ASupertall4SD

September 26th, 2007, 05:29 PM

No, I didn't make it. I saw it on Signonsandiego.com as an gif advertisement.

I used snagit to capture it right when it flashed Best of San Diego. I actually have one with just San Diego written and without any writing.

I agree that that angle is the nicest viewpoint to see the skyline. BY FAR!!!

September 27th, 2007, 01:46 PM

You can capture a great view of the skyline from Harbor Island as well.

derek5

September 29th, 2007, 01:42 AM

I'm glad we will still see Strata going up.

SDfan

September 29th, 2007, 07:59 AM

Yeah, so am I.

It is a nice height and has curves, which is always a plus.
Now if Cosmo and Library would start up, that would be a great!

mongozx

October 2nd, 2007, 04:00 PM

someone in SSP posted a nice little photo thread of our city here (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=138501).

mongozx

October 3rd, 2007, 03:42 AM

Webcam updates. . .

Aria
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Aria-01.jpg

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_evillage1_camera1/imgbuf/buf_4058/1191357744205323.jpg

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_sdsempra_camera1/imgbuf/buf_342/1191357744207947.jpg

Hilton & Legend

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Hilton[1].jpg

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Legend%20Rendering%20Final.jpg

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_evillage1_camera1/imgbuf/buf_4058/1191357744205388.jpg

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_coronado_camera1/imgbuf/buf_861/1191357744206941.jpg

Vantage Pointe
http://www.vantagepointesd.com/media/home/Building01.jpg

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_omni_camera1/imgbuf/buf_8882/1191357744206020.jpg

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_evillage1_camera1/imgbuf/buf_4058/1191357744205447.jpg

17th & G :)
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/17th%20%20G_web.jpg
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_evillage1_camera1/imgbuf/buf_4058/1191357744205520.jpg

Strata site being cleared :)
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Strata_Final.jpg

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_evillage1_camera1/imgbuf/buf_4058/1191357744205948.jpg

Residence Inn Marriott (best angle I can find)
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/GQResidenceINn.jpg

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_omni_camera1/imgbuf/buf_8882/1191357744205734.jpg

The Lofts @ 707 10th Avenue
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/South%20Persp%20-%20G%20Lofts.jpg
http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_evillage1_camera1/imgbuf/buf_4058/1191357744207398.jpg

Breeza, Bosa Bayside, Sapphire
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Breeza.jpg

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/bosa_pacific_hwyAsh.jpg

http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/Sapphire%20Tower.jpg

http://live6.truelook.com/timages/live6/ecodb/ecodb_1amnorth_camera1/imgbuf/buf_6632/1191357744206423.jpg

derek5

October 3rd, 2007, 05:07 AM

Vantage Point is a beast.

mongozx

October 5th, 2007, 04:29 AM

Rethinking Large Condo Projects

Residential developers push back start dates and
incorporate retail, office and hotels into their projects

By Marty Graham of San Diego Metro

The number of residential buildings bursting from Downtown has slowed to a near halt this year. Many are still coming, albeit later than planned and often changed to include more types of uses, including hotel rooms. But because big investment money is tight, a dozen or so projects planned and approved by the Centre City Development Corp. hang somewhere between the drawing board and groundbreaking. Of those that once had projected a December 2007 groundbreaking – 15th & Island (617 units), Cosmopolitan Square (290 units), Embassy 1414 (97 units) and Library Tower (174 units) – all are delayed.

But most, in some form, are still coming, says Russ Valone of Marketpointe Realty Advisors. “To dig a hole might be a little optimistic right now,” Valone says. “But the demand is going to return.”

Not all the projects are stalled. Bosa Developments, the Godzilla of Downtown builders, continues to lumber along. And small projects, like the Ballpark Skylofts and the Olde Cracker Factory, continue because they aren’t counting on the equity market for capital. “We’re starting construction on our mixed use project,” says Cracker Factory co-owner Caryl Chabot. “We own the land – it’s been in the family since my grandfather bought it for $85,000. We didn’t come in as investors who have to try to make the project pencil out.”

The Cracker Factory, in a historically significant building, will yield office and retail space with four penthouse lofts atop. Construction is under way.

Similarly, Greg Paquette, a partner in Ballpark Skylofts, says the development is moving forward. The seven-story, 16-unit building is planned for 15th Street, between Market and Island.

“We’re still in the quagmire of city planning because we lost both the planners who signed off on our project,” Paquette says. “But we expect to have our permits in 45 to 90 days and we’ll break ground as soon as we do.”

Paquette’s been watching other developments stall and flounder, with the exception of the privately funded projects or those planned by companies that specialize in urban high-rises. He says it all comes down to financing. “We’ve got our financing dialed in,” Paquette says. “We’re a tiny outfit and we don’t have to have huge profit margins. But we see the monster companies lumbering forward, too.”

Bosa, for example, continues to plan to break ground on its Pacific Highway at E project that will bring 473 new condominiums to market in 2011, according to Dennis Serraglio.

“We planned to be able to ride this out,” Serraglio says. “We’ve seen real estate cycles in many markets many times – it’s part of a reasonable balance, but we have a lot of confidence in the Downtown market and we have established relationships with our lenders.

“We’re building. We’re not worried,” he adds.

As Valone sees it, the people who continue to build are seeing the market clearly. “We’ve got 1,800 units in unsold new product coming between now and 2009, and between 400 and 600 resale units on the market, and to some people that signals saturation,” he adds. “But we know the market absorbs 500 to 600 units a year, so by the time a developer who breaks ground now completes his, it will be the only game in town.”

Since 2000, developers have built several dozen new residential and mixed-use projects bringing nearly 8,000 new condos, hundreds of hotel rooms and many square miles of retail space to the once sleepy Downtown. More than 20,000 people have moved in, creating an overnight residential neighborhood. Investors and flippers have come and gone, helping to boost prices and create a buzz as well as an unrealistic perception of demand.

Now, with construction financing tight and tepid interest from buyers, the market has changed to a slow and thoughtful one.

“There are at least a dozen projects that have been entitled and are on hold – some developers are waiting patiently, some projects are being changed to hotels or to add hotel rooms, some are being redesigned to have office components or to be mixed use,” says Sherman Harmer, a principal with Urban Housing Partners. “Mixed use and particularly hotel rooms are easier to get financing for,” he says. “With the slowdown, people have the time to be innovative and creative in what they plan.”

For example, Harmer points to Avion Developments, on 16th and G streets, which began its life on paper as a 500-unit residential tower. The developer now plans to combine retail, commercial, condominiums and apartments in one building.

“Mixed use projects and better designs reduce risk,” Harmer says.

The former Elle project at Columbia and A streets, now called the Columbia Tower, has added a hotel component and the Celagio condo project has been completely redone into Hotel Indigo. The Embassy 1414 project on Columbia and Ash streets is also adding hotel rooms, says Donna Alm of the CCDC.

The Cosmopolitan Tower, planned for Seventh and Island avenues by Simplon, also has added hotel rooms. The second phase of the Solara Towers will include office and retail and is now adding hotel rooms.

Some projects are becoming rentals for the time being, and others are being sold.

The McMillin Co. is looking to sell its property at 14th and K streets, where it planned to build 222 condominiums, 9,000 square feet of retail space and 300 parking spaces, and there are offers for it, insiders say.

In September, KB Home sold its fully permitted project at 10th and B streets to CCDC and Silverwood, which has switched the plans to affordable apartments.

A DR Horton project at 16th and Island is on hold. T.C. Holdings, which has an approved condo project at 11th and B streets, seems to be holding on and waiting, observers say. The developer did not return phone calls for this story.

The publicly held companies that specialize in suburban homes, like KB Home and DR Horton, seem to be on their way out of Downtown.

“They came in because they saw a unique opportunity that took them away from their core business. It’s a big commitment to build a 300-unit building that can’t be sold in phases the way a tract of homes can be,” Harmer observes. “They came and built good projects — Acqua Vista and Cortez Blu, Gaslamp Square — but they are controlled by short-term results. For them to make a three-year commitment to get units to market is very difficult.”

But, Harmer points out, there’s plenty of interest in urban living – renters are coming in droves even though rents are up 15 percent to 20 percent. And, he says, the traffic through sales offices remains high, signaling plenty of interest even if people don’t feel safe to buy right away.

“Breeza and Bayside, and other more expensive projects, are selling easily to more experienced and sophisticated buyers,” Harmer says.

Some developers, including CityMark and Pinnacle, plan to build once they secure financing. CityMark has approval for Pier, a 228-unit project on the west side of Kettner between Fir and Date streets, that was scheduled to break ground in December.

“We’re hoping to break ground next year,” says Russ Haley, vice president of CityMark, which built Aperture nearby. “We think Pier is one of the best projects in one of the best locations and we’re going to be here to deliver on the promise.”

While the enormous Pinnacle Development project at 15th and J, with 617 condominium units and 20,000 square feet of commercial space, is on hold, the company is submitting plans for the adjacent 60,000-square-foot park on the west side of the megablock.

And Bosa may not be the only large condo developer to start construction on a tower in the next 12 months. Doug Austin is redesigning Library Tower to add some type of commercial space, and has said the 16th & G Gateway project, planned by Avion Development to include 525 condominiums, offices and additional retail space, has secured financing on the preliminary plans and should break ground in mid-2008.

The larger developers with product on the market today appear to be weathering the slow down well.

“Doug Wilson and Bosa planned for some carry,” Valone says. “They know they can’t replicate the last five years of sales but they also know their units will sell. That’s good for the owners and prospective buyers, because the developers will maintain the integrity of their projects.”

October 9th, 2007, 01:47 AM

Which is your personal favorite current highrise in the city?

derek5

October 9th, 2007, 04:38 AM

Completed or under-construction?

mongozx

October 9th, 2007, 06:26 AM

Which is your personal favorite current highrise in the city?

I'd have to say Embassy 1414.
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/EMBASSY.jpg

derek5

October 9th, 2007, 08:36 AM

If it ever goes up. :(

hngcm

October 9th, 2007, 10:40 AM

Which is your personal favorite current highrise in the city?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Electra is a SEXY BEAST.:banana:

October 9th, 2007, 05:00 PM

I'd have to say Embassy 1414.
http://www.ccdc.com/images/propertyImages/EMBASSY.jpg

Yep, that's my favorite one as well for the future projects. I even have the website link in my Bookmarks:D http://www.embassy1414.com/indexFlash.htm
What about current highrises in the city, which one stands out from the rest?

October 9th, 2007, 05:03 PM

Completed or under-construction?

Completed highrises

Bud

October 9th, 2007, 11:07 PM

WOW. Vantage Pointe is looking monstrous these days.

Does anyone know what has happened to the Harbor Drive Pedestrian Bridge? Surely that's the longest put-off on the list!

derek5

October 10th, 2007, 03:15 AM

There are much longer ones, but finding proper funds is the biggest issue with that.

It's projected cost doubled since the first figures.

mongozx

October 10th, 2007, 05:36 AM

My current favorite, even though it's no Transbay Terminal, is Smart Corner. I like that its mixed use (office/condo) and its integration of the Trolley line. I'd like to see more of these projects around downtown. As for looks, I'd say Pinnacle. Or maybe Electra.

mongozx

October 10th, 2007, 05:41 AM

WOW. Vantage Pointe is looking monstrous these days.

Yeah. The thing isn't even halfway up but it's already blocking most of the Symphony Towers from the 5.

the crane for Aria is dimantled and it looks verrrry nice. Cortez Hill is densifying nicely.:cheers:

Latino177

October 12th, 2007, 07:33 PM

I hope they Build close the freeway we dont have one close TO the freeway

SDfan

October 12th, 2007, 09:15 PM

Favorite high-rise? hmmm...

I don't think I have a specific one, but I do like the cluster around the Union Bank tower. I wish we had more office/corprate centers like those buildings over there. And even though there is a shaddow effect and what not, its till nice to be in that area, at least to me.

mongozx

October 13th, 2007, 03:14 AM

Developers line up to redevelop Civic Center

By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
5:41 p.m. October 12, 2007
SAN DIEGO – Eight developers have stepped forward for the job of redeveloping San Diego's downtown Civic Center complex. Teams from as far as Canada, Texas and Indiana submitted applications by Friday's deadline.
Two San Diego companies are in the running: Douglas Wilson Companies, which has built downtown condominium and office towers, and Lankford & Associates, developer of the Port of San Diego's Lane Field property.

The other candidates are Sonnenblick-Del Rio Development of Los Angeles; Gerding Edlen Development of Portland, Ore.; Kosene & Kosene Residential of Indianapolis, Ind.; Houston-based Hines; Thomas Properties Group of Los Angeles; and Plenary Group of Vancouver, British Columbia.
Several members of the city's downtown redevelopment agency, including president Nancy Graham, will be barred from working on Wilson's application because they attended a lavish party he hosted in July. The cost violated gift limits for public officials, and some didn't reimburse Wilson within the time limit.

Redevelopment officials expect to narrow the developer pool to two or three in November. The City Council and the mayor could make a decision by October 2008.

SDfan

October 13th, 2007, 08:42 AM

Thats a year from now...this is going to be a beaurocratic-agguire shouting-nimby losers-mess.

derek5

October 13th, 2007, 07:31 PM

and Lankford & Associates, developer of the Port of San Diego's Lane Field property.

Maybe they should just concentrate on Lane Field.:ohno:

mongozx

October 14th, 2007, 01:33 AM

What the city needs to do is not worry about the Civic Center and focus on getting the new Central Library off the ground. The Civic Center is functional. Ugly, but functional nonetheless.

Our current Central Library is in dire need of replacement. The planned location of the new one will jumpstart more redevelopment in the immediate area just as Horton Plaza and Petco did.

The Civic Center improvement and beautification can wait.

SDfan

October 14th, 2007, 02:14 AM

I don't know the exact numbers, but most of the city workers don't even work at city hall/civic center. They have to lease space in nearby buildings. And a lot of the leases are going to expire in the next five years, so from what I've read Sanders is just trying to get a new center city complex done before the city has to get new and even more expensive leases signed. Saves you money when you own the place you live/work in.

Plus the current civic center is a piece if crude. 60's modernist has been out since, well, the 60's.

As for the library, thats something that is going to be sitting around until the city is on sturdy finiancial ground. Or if some big donoation comes in, but yeah right. I don't really put that building on the top of my agenda for downtown, mainly because of how unlikely it is.

Bud

October 17th, 2007, 03:54 PM

The new library seems to be somewhat of a catch-22. The big donors are waiting until it moves forward and it won't move forward until the big donors kick more in.

I wonder what happened to builder donations? It would sure help their cause to see it being built, especially the owner of the site of the future "Library Tower."
Where's that old Dale Carnegie spirit?

The homeless tent for this year will be in the vacant lot at the corner of 11th and G. Barrio Logan finally raised enough objections (drunks, drugs, fights, trash, public urination) to get it out of their neighborhood. Sad deal. We need to be more forward-thinking on that. Is there a skycraper design that you can hose out? It's a moveable feast that brings down any neighborhood it occupies.
(I realize this should be on the public works forum, but talk of a new library brings to mind the guys that hang out on E street right now at the old library.)

Bud

xXFallenXx

October 19th, 2007, 07:00 PM

Does anyone know of any plans to move the airport?
I thought i heard something about that a couple of months ago, but now i'm not sure.

hngcm

October 20th, 2007, 12:02 PM

Does anyone know of any plans to move the airport?
I thought i heard something about that a couple of months ago, but now i'm not sure.

Well there is/was a committee that recommended to place a new one at MCAS Miramar, which got rejected in the ballots (actual proposition was to whether or not to PROPOSE to move it there, not actually move it).

In reality though, lindbergh field will still be there in 2020, god this city can't do shit.

dl3000

October 21st, 2007, 08:56 AM

Yeah I think the committee is over, its pretty much expansion.

derek5

October 21st, 2007, 07:44 PM

How stupid are they though? How is expansion going to solve anything? All it does is bring in more people to the already growing aiport.

SDfan

October 22nd, 2007, 07:20 AM

The Airport is here to stay, everyone plan on a plateau.

Anyways, anyone else think arson is to blame for the fires?

xXFallenXx

October 22nd, 2007, 08:16 AM

^^ i wondered that myself....could be, it would make sense, although the news hasn't said anything about that.

derek5

October 22nd, 2007, 09:22 AM

It's fucking horrible.

SDfan

October 22nd, 2007, 10:34 PM

Some pictures I took from a balcony in Oceanside looking south.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/FireSmoke1.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/FireSmoke2.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/SDfan12/FireSmoke3.jpg

mongozx

October 29th, 2007, 01:59 AM

Satellite view of the Fires
http://signonsandiego.lamphost.net/albums/general/071024terra2.jpg

Some Interesting Vids

Time Lapse
Harris Fire 2007(near my hood)
TD5kopoJb7w

Cedar Fire (from 2003)
rHtXqog_cSs

Smoky Skyline 2007
TLNtvcEods4

derek5

October 29th, 2007, 02:01 AM

Crazy stuff.

bushman61988

November 5th, 2007, 02:12 AM

New renderings for the 7th & Market mixed-use project...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/SitePlanItem51.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/bushman61988/SitePlanItem5.jpg
um...it brings height to the area...and um...I don't know. I guess I like it. It's definitely unique.

I don't know if it's the CCDC website or my internet, but I can't read the PDF's for the redesigned Cosmopolitan Square, which looks like is gonna happen after all (Thank God!). But from the looks of it, a hotel will be incorporated w/ about 211 rooms and the number of condos is gonna be reduced from 290 to 113 or somethin like that. Everything else about the project is basically the same except slightly more commercial space was added (office & retail).

derek5

November 5th, 2007, 03:16 AM

Strata has also officially started construction.

mongozx

November 5th, 2007, 04:43 AM

7th & Market looks HUGE! It appears like it's bigger than the block it's propsed on.

Karltj

November 5th, 2007, 06:51 AM

Wow, that rendering for 7th and Market looks pretty nice and tall... I really like the design, looks different and unique for downtown SD.
Thanks for sharing these cool images!

November 9th, 2007, 11:06 PM

Wow that thing is huge... i counted 41 levels

-Corey-

November 10th, 2007, 07:38 AM

wow it look sso tall..

derek5

November 10th, 2007, 11:45 PM

Check out San Diego's cameo in today's Tijuana SSC banner. ;)

Online

November 11th, 2007, 12:27 AM

Those stairs are the only thing I don't like from that building :(

derek5

November 11th, 2007, 04:34 AM

The stairs are a little crazy. I'm not sure if I like them either.

SDfan

November 11th, 2007, 07:15 AM

Props to TJ! Its nice to seem some upward growth back there in the skyline, hope we get to see more throughout the city.

Dasan

November 15th, 2007, 07:10 AM

I got an e-mail news letter about the SouthbayExpressway but It didn't have an image URL and I couldn't host it on ImageShack so I had to copy and paste, here it is:

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4439/2007fallheadercz8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The day we've all been waiting for has arrived! I'm thrilled to announce that South Bay Expressway will open to traffic on Monday, November 19! In no time you'll be navigating San Diego's first toll road and experiencing its scenic, reliable, stress-free drive. We've been telling you we're going to put the fun back in driving – now you get to see how it feels!

But don't take my word for it. As a special "welcome" to our customers, we're inviting everyone to a South Bay Expressway "Free For All!" That means everyone drives South Bay Expressway for free for the first two weeks – November 19 through midnight on December 2. This is your opportunity to test drive this state-of-the-art road at absolutely no cost to you, see the difference it makes in your everyday commute and experience its first-class service. Now is your chance!

In addition, we're offering an unbeatable special to customers who open a prepaid South Bay Expressway FasTrak account – free, unlimited travel on South Bay Expressway until January 13, 2008! If you already have a South Bay Expressway FasTrak account, you'll automatically receive this great deal, in addition to any other special promotions you may have received when you opened your FasTrak account. If the savings you get from using FasTrak – up to $1.75 per trip – haven't enticed you to sign up yet, this deal certainly will!

And the fun continues! Join us for our community-wide grand opening celebration on Saturday, November 17 at Otay Ranch Town Center in Chula Vista. The newsletter has all the exciting details. You won't want to miss the free fun and entertainment we have planned, including a fun run/walk on the road, a classic car show, an outdoor movie and fireworks.

Many thanks go out to you, South Bay Expressway's loyal supporters, for your ongoing support and patience as we waited for this grand opening day to come. I can't believe the day is finally here! Get out and enjoy your ride on San Diego's newest road. I can't wait to see you out there!

Sincerely,

Greg Hulsizer

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GRAND OPENING SCHEDULE OF EVENTS

Saturday, November 17

8:00 a.m. Cycling Tour
8:30 a.m. 5- or 10-Mile Fun Run
9:00 a.m. Fun Walk
11:00 a.m. Family Festival
12:00 p.m. SBX Tours
5:00 p.m. Santa Claus Parade
6:30 p.m. Outdoor Movie
8:30 p.m. Fireworks

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 19
South Bay Expressway opens to traffic!

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JOIN OUR GRAND OPENING 'FREE FOR ALL' ON SOUTH BAY EXPRESSWAY!

You heard right! The new South Bay Expressway opens to traffic on November 19, and for the first two weeks, everyone drives free!

From November 19 to December 2 we're offering a stress-free, gridlock-free test drive on South Bay Expressway – and it won't cost you a dime. Why? We can't wait for you to experience this first class road and the fast, scenic, stress-free drive we've been promising! Whether you're dropping your kids off at school, driving to work in Downtown or Otay Mesa, traveling to the new Otay Ranch Town Center or Eastlake Design Center for shopping or heading to Mexico for a weekend away, South Bay Expressway connects you to the places you want to go!

We invite you to take advantage of our Grand Opening 'Free for All' – it's yet another way we're saying, 'Welcome.'

OPEN A FASTRAK® ACCOUNT AND TRAVEL FREE UNTIL JANUARY 13

The fun doesn't stop there! You'll get FREE UNLIMITED travel on South Bay Expressway until January 13, 2008* when you open your prepaid South Bay Expressway FasTrak account! FasTrak is the easy, convenient way to pay tolls while traveling non-stop on South Bay Expressway. It will not only save you time by allowing you to bypass toll booths at full highway speeds, but it will save you money as well… up to $1.75 per trip versus paying with cash.

If you already have a South Bay Expressway FasTrak account, you will automatically receive this great deal. Beginning December 3, vehicles without a transponder must stop and pay cash. Sign up now to cash in on this amazing offer!

SIGN ME UP!
For more information or to sign up for FasTrak, visit www.southbayexpressway.com or call 619-661-7070.

*RESTRICTIONS APPLY.

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FASTRAK 101

FasTrak consists of a wallet-sized electronic transponder, which is placed on the inside of your vehicle's windshield. The transponder works together with electronic readers that are installed over the Expressway. When traveling in a FasTrak lane, an overhead antenna reads the transponder and the toll is automatically deducted from your prepaid account. Transponders can also be used in multiple vehicles, and customers are able to manage their accounts online 24 hours a day. FasTrak is fully electronic – no tollbooths or gates – and above all, there's no need to slow down or stop at toll booths. Just drive on through!

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JOIN US! GRAND OPENING CELEBRATION AT OTAY RANCH TOWN CENTER: SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 17

Get ready for a day of family fun on Saturday, November 17 to celebrate the grand opening of South Bay Expressway! Head on over to Otay Ranch Town Center in Chula Vista for games, entertainment, food and fun. All events and activities are free. This is your first chance to experience South Bay Expressway before any traffic is permitted on the road. The highlights:

CYCLING TOUR

South Bay Expressway's grand opening community celebration will kick off with a 15-mile self-guided bike tour of the road and its interchanges beginning at 8 a.m. Cyclists will begin at the Birch Road interchange next to Otay Ranch Town Center in Chula Vista, travel north to San Miguel Road, back south over the Otay River Bridge to the Customer Service Center in Otay Mesa, and north again to the starting point at Birch Road.

FUN RUN/WALK

Prefer to travel on foot in the middle of the traffic lane? Join your friends and neighbors for a fun run/walk on South Bay Expressway beginning at 8:30 a.m. for runners and 9 a.m. for walkers. You have the option of choosing a 5-mile or 10-mile loop, and will depart from the start line at the Birch Road interchange. Participants will travel north to East H St. (5-mile) or San Miguel Road (10-mile) and circle back to end at Birch Road. Snacks and water will be provided at designated spots along the route. Be sure to dress appropriately (walking or running shoes are recommended) and wear sunscreen.

FAMILY FESTIVAL

At 11 a.m., the fun begins at Otay Ranch Town Center! You won't want to miss all the entertainment and activities planned for kids and adults alike.

Visit the Safety Zone, located on the main street through the center of Otay Ranch Town Center, to see fire trucks, police cruisers and other safety equipment up close. Stop by the Healthy Lifestyle Zone to meet athletes from Chula Vista's Olympic Training Center. You'll see live demonstrations and hear the athletes talk about their sports and training schedules. Or check out the Car Show to see hundreds of classic cars on display. Kids won't want to miss a ride on the track-less train, a spin in a mini go-cart and playing in the blow-up jungle gym – and Santa Claus will arrive at 5 p.m. All activities are free.

GUIDED TOURS

South Bay Expressway is offering guided bus tours of the road beginning at noon. The community is invited to climb aboard for a trip along the full length of the road, including the impressive Otay River Bridge. A South Bay Expressway tour guide will narrate the tour, and the bus will visit each interchange, highlighting locations of interest just minutes from South Bay Expressway, including restaurants, schools and retail outlets. Tour guides will also answer any questions you might have about the road, its construction and how to use it.

OUTDOOR MOVIE AND FIREWORKS!

The grand opening celebration ends with a free outdoor movie courtesy of the new AMC Otay Ranch 12, opening this holiday season. Bring a blanket and join the community at 6:30 p.m. for a fun, family-friendly screening of "Polar Express" under the stars. Popcorn and snacks will be provided. A fireworks display at 8:30 p.m. will bring the grand opening celebration to a close. We hope to see you there!

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