Jan 22, 2007

REPORT TO COUNCIL RECOMMENDS PROCESS WHICH COULD POTENTIALLY RESOLVE KEY ISSUES

VANCOUVER, B.C. – Today Vancouver city staff submitted a report to Council which recommends a process that could potentially resolve the proposed Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium’s five key requirements set out by City Council last July. In addition, the report outlines a procedure to integrate the stadium with the Waterfront Hub Study. The report will be presented at a City Council meeting at 9:30 a.m. on Thursday, February 1.

“Since the last City Council meeting in July, we have been actively working to address the five key requirements,” said Whitecaps Director of Soccer Operations Bob Lenarduzzi. “Through our discussions with the Port Authority, we are now proposing a revised stadium site which has the potential to resolve or mitigate the five key issues.”

The new proposed site is situated slightly west of the previously proposed site, just north of the CP Rail tracks, on the waterfront and near the SeaBus hub.

The five key requirements the Whitecaps are working with the City and stakeholders to resolve are the following:

- Provision of an adequate street network
- Resolution of the risks and liability associated with dangerous goods in the rail lands
- Reconfiguration of the stadium structure to ensure a better fit with Gastown
Resolution of impacts on the liveability of residential areas south of the rail lands
- Resolution of impacts on future Port Lands development

As part of the process there will be a number of opportunities for the public to provide input on the proposal through one-on-one meetings, public open houses and workshops.

“We look forward to continuing to work with the City, stakeholders and public to ensure that the stadium is an asset to the community,” added Lenarduzzi. “Although we are optimistic about the new proposed site, there is still a lot of work to be done between now and June in order to move forward to the rezoning process.”

The recommended process is scheduled to be completed in June 2007, at that time Council will decide whether the five key requirements can be resolved sufficiently to proceed to a rezoning process. If approved, the stadium will follow a timeline which would see it ready in early 2010.

The proposed Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium would be located adjacent to Vancouver’s transit hub making it easily accessible from the new Canada Line, SkyTrain, SeaBus, West Coast Express, Helijet and numerous bus routes. The multi-purpose venue would accommodate year-round events including more than 30 Whitecaps Men’s and Women’s games, Canadian national team soccer matches, international sporting events such as rugby and tennis, concerts, and community festivals.


Council Report: http://www.whitecapsnewstadium.com/data/upload/csb6.pdf



This is great news, hopefully it'll be ready by the time the Olympics start rolling.





From the report:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3284/whitecaps17vt.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9924/whitecaps24jc.jpg



October 2006 renderings
http://whitecapsnewstadium.com/data/upload/renderings_soccer.jpg
http://whitecapsnewstadium.com/data/upload/renderings_city.jpg
http://whitecapsnewstadium.com/data/upload/renderings_conert.jpg
http://whitecapsnewstadium.com/data/upload/renderings_aerial_map.jpg
http://whitecapsnewstadium.com/data/upload/renderings_birds_eye_map.jpg
http://www.whitecapsnewstadium.com/data/upload/renderings_transit_sm.gif

Fingers crossed.

I don't quite understand the new shifted location of the stadium, are we building it over water now? :
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9924/whitecaps24jc.jpg

Ya I don't get it either. It sure looks like it from that drawing though which would be kind of cool.

I want a new stadium downtown, but I'm not sure building OVER the water is a great idea. Aesthetically it makes the waters edge look crowded and the seismic stability of the silt on the waters edge at that location is probably difficult to overcome by engineering of the structure.
I liked the old proposal better, ie, over the existing RR tracks. Just a gut thing.

Obviously they'd have to duplicate what they did with the convention centres, which is pound in a crap load of pilings. Anything is possible.

^ and keep in mind that 1,000 pilings were pounded for the convention centre expansion.

With the current stadium designs, including the expansion to 30k, I'm wondering if they wanted to expand upwards to 50k would it be possible or easier to do that with the water location as opposed to the track location? If this new location is better in the long run for expansion I'll definitely be happier with it.

With the current stadium designs, including the expansion to 30k, I'm wondering if they wanted to expand upwards to 50k would it be possible or easier to do that with the water location as opposed to the track location? If this new location is better in the long run for expansion I'll definitely be happier with it.

Well, the footprint of the new stadium site is certainly now much larger than the railyard site. Perhaps? Maybe???

as you know.... downtown is crowded already, now adding a huge stadium in the middle of no where? cmon! why only attract people to downtown and no wehre else?

^Well it's the epicentre of all transportation networks and the centre of tourism.

I hope you guys get it! Imagine, one soccer only stadium almost complete in Canada and two underway!

this stadium is an excellent idea and the waterfront location is a bonus

as you know.... downtown is crowded already, now adding a huge stadium in the middle of no where? cmon! why only attract people to downtown and no wehre else?Middle of no where? Crowded? I guess it's all subjective. Why build condos there, why a Canada and Expo Line to downtown? Because that's where it's at, that's where people are and want to be. The people proposing the stadium don't have an obligation to places like Surrey or Richmond. If you're an owner of a buisiness, you go where you think you'll be most successful.

This was posted by Distill3d in the other thread. There are a bunch of new diagrams on the Whitecaps site:

http://www.whitecapsnewstadium.com/renderings.cfm#rendering6


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j155/starfcuk/renderings_vanmap.jpg

They show this for transit links - note the Seabus route:

http://www.whitecapsnewstadium.com/data/upload/renderings_transit.JPG

^ just amazing.

i'm assuming a new SeaBus terminal comes with that....what a great tiny tight little package!


But how exactly would he connect the stadium with the rest of downtown??? the railyard is in the way. here's the old Portside Convention & Hotel Centre proposal:
http://www.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2000/07/115174.jpg

^ and keep in mind that 1,000 pilings were pounded for the convention centre expansion.
LOL I know people who worked in offices near the waterfront during the past year and the pile driving just drove them NUTS. Imagine another 1000 pilings ahahahaha. :nuts:

IMHO I thought the placement of the stadium above the railyards would have nicely connected the city to the waterfront and covered up the ugly tracks. What was Gastown's problem with it? No offense but it's already a pretty tough neighbourhood. How did they come to the conclusion that the stadium would decrease its liveability?

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/rfataar/6-1.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/rfataar/5-1.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/rfataar/4-1.jpg

^^^ Hahaha, hey Mo, why don't you make a propasal for BMO!

^^^ Hahaha, hey Mo, why don't you make a propasal for BMO!
well the idea is to demolish BC place after the games and build this new stadium 30-40,000 capacity

LOL I know people who worked in offices near the waterfront during the past year and the pile driving just drove them NUTS. Imagine another 1000 pilings ahahahaha. :nuts:

IMHO I thought the placement of the stadium above the railyards would have nicely connected the city to the waterfront and covered up the ugly tracks. What was Gastown's problem with it? No offense but it's already a pretty tough neighbourhood. How did they come to the conclusion that the stadium would decrease its liveability?

LOL....i can imagine sitting in an office and watching your coffee move.....like in Jurassic Park.


I thought the stadium about the railyards was the better idea as well....it's the perfect solution for developing undevelopable land (the railyard) and there would be a direct connection from the stadium via The Landing on Water Street. Not to mention that having it closer to Gastown would help revitalize the downtown eastside - whether those idiots at the Carnegie Centre and the Gastown Business Association like it or not......their claims that the stadium would make things even worse.....their scare of a toxic spill at the railyard, yet they live right next to it. All NIMBY's.



well the idea is to demolish BC place after the games and build this new stadium 30-40,000 capacity

BC Place will probably be around for a long time to come....and I can see it being privatized in the near future - meaning there will be major renovations and improvements to the stadium (new seats, new roof, renovated interior, glass facade, condos next to it, office space, bars, hotel, restaurants, etc.)....all things the public sector can't do.

I don't see anything beyond 30,000 seats.....NIMBY's would never allow it.....though it would be very nice.

Waterfront stadium gains momentum
By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS | Feb. 2, 2007


Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium may have a retractable roof and a field big enough for Canadian football, according to Bob Lenarduzzi.

The proposed soccer stadium near Gastown would remain a 15,000-seater, with possible expansion to 30,000.

Lenarduzzi conceded the seating capacity remains too low to lure the B.C. Lions from B.C. Place Stadium.

Lenarduzzi hopes the project can go to the rezoning stage this summer after yesterday's unanimous council vote to integrate the stadium with the central waterfront hub study.

Jon Stovell, who led last summer's anti-stadium campaign, and Gastown Business Improvement Association manager Leanore Sali applauded the Whitecaps on the site change.

"It has the potential to be exciting for our neighbourhood," Sali said.

Whitecaps hope to open the stadium for the 2010 Winter Olympics. 




wow.....i'm amazed and surprised......a retractable roof?!!!!!!!!! and field big enough for CFL????? if only they could increase expandable capacity to 40,000-50,000.

i'm also surprised that the NIMBYism to the stadium has dissapeared.

looks more and more like BC Place's future is up in the air....especially if they increase stadium capacity and build a retractable roof.

Stadium home debated
If B.C. Place is demolished after 2010 Olympics, where should a new stadium be built?


By Jeff Nagel
Black Press
Feb 02 2007

Sites as far as Surrey are being floated as a future home for a new Greater Vancouver stadium if B.C. Place is demolished after the 2010 Winter Olympics.

While Vancouver wants to keep the stadium, Tourism and Sport Minister Stan Hagen says all options will be considered.

“There are other possibilities probably tied fairly closely to transit, which could take it out to Coquitlam or Surrey, or to Richmond or Burnaby,” Hagen said.

“Any of the sites served by rapid transit.”

The talk was touched off after the stadium’s roof deflated in early January.

Soon after, condo marketer Bob Rennie said the aging stadium might not be the best use of scarce downtown land.

“Does a football stadium need to be in elitist space or could it spread out to serve more of Greater Vancouver?”

Surrounded by the explosive condo tower redevelopment of the former Expo lands around False Creek, B.C. Place would command top dollar if the stadium was demolished, helping finance a replacement.

Built by the province for $123 million in 1983 on vacant former industrial land, Rennie estimates the land would fetch $250 million today.

Estimates to build a replacement run around $250 million, Hagen said, and discussions have centred on a smaller stadium of 40,000 seats.

Government subsidies to run 60,000-seat B.C. Place are forecast to rise to $6 million per year. And much bigger bills may loom as the time nears for major renovations.

Keeping the facility and fixing it is an option, Hagen said. But he ruled out a retractable roof.

“By the time you retrofit you could probably build a new stadium,” he said.

Rennie says one alternative is for the province to work with the Vancouver Whitecaps – who propose a new soccer stadium on the downtown waterfront – to expand that project using proceeds from B.C. Place. The Whitecaps, however, have yet to win over city planners and Gastown residents.

Good transit is critical wherever a new stadium goes, says ex-Vancouver Coun. Gordon Price. He said rapid growth south of the Fraser means there’s a good case the next major facility should go “somewhere toward the centre of the region”, rather than downtown.

A site near Scott Road SkyTrain station in Surrey would work well, he said.

“I’ve got no complaint if I can get there easily on SkyTrain,” Price said.

“You want it right on top of transit and you want it to be in a central place.”

There have been attempts to get stadium builders to look outside Vancouver.

City councils in Surrey and Coquitlam failed a year ago to convince the Whitecaps to build a new 15,000-seat soccer stadium in their cities. They argued SkyTrain lines run in both directions and can as easily carry Vancouverites out to events as transport suburbanites downtown.

But team owners resisted – business executives who buy season tickets prefer a downtown site even if fans live elsewhere.

The idea of a new site has fired debate among B.C. Lions fans on the online forum lionbackers.com.

“Let’s build a stadium in Surrey for the Leos,” says one post.

“Build it and they will come,” says another.

Others aren’t convinced, arguing downtown offers more restaurants, entertainment and ambience for patrons before and after events.

“They would certainly be reversing a North American trend toward building downtown,” one post says.

“Suburban stadiums are so ‘60s.”

Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts says the city is looking at a mid-sized arena, but she hasn’t had any discussions about a stadium of B.C. Place’s stature.

“It’s something the city couldn’t fund by itself. So the necessity to have partners is quite significant and having the province as a partner would be crucial.”

Coun. Tom Gill is strongly in favour of a B.C. Place replacement coming to the Scott Road lowlands.

“It could change the face of the northwest side of Surrey,” he said.

“That particular area of Surrey really needs to have a facelift and this could be the catalyst.”

Rennie doubts a site as far as Surrey is a good idea.

“My gut says we need a larger facility closer to town,” he said.

“For those larger events when the Pope and the Queen come to town.”

With the dome now re-inflated, there’s no rush and no sign the demise of Vancouver’s signature stadium is imminent.

Bookings are still being taken for B.C. Place events in 2012. That’s the year the combined population of Surrey and Langley are projected to reach 630,000 and pass Vancouver’s for the first time.

I saw this earlier today but thought you had already posted it.

My jaw dropped when I saw retractable roof. Things are looking good eh?!

I hope a retractable roof doesn't mean artificial turf. If so, then :badnews:

A stadium of that scope, in Surrey, might be a tough sell. Sure, there might be Skytrain access, but that would essentially be it. And we all know how quickly Skytrain can reach capacity on game night.

One of the upsides of the current BC Place stadium site is that it can be essentially reached by Skytrain, many bus/transit routes, and via walking for the many spectators who come to the stadium downtown (either residents or people finishing their day jobs downtown).

The other key for a stadium site is amenities. Downtown Vancouver has a myriad of dining and hotel options for those game or concert goers from Campbell River or Calgary or Bellingham. Northwest Surrey (or Langley, or Coquitlam) do not.

Don't get me wrong. I support development for Surrey. But a stadium of that nature might be too much for Surrey.

A stadium of that scope, in Surrey, might be a tough sell. Sure, there might be Skytrain access, but that would essentially be it. And we all know how quickly Skytrain can reach capacity on game night.

One of the upsides of the current BC Place stadium site is that it can be essentially reached by Skytrain, many bus/transit routes, and via walking for the many spectators who come to the stadium downtown (either residents or people finishing their day jobs downtown).

The other key for a stadium site is amenities. Downtown Vancouver has a myriad of dining and hotel options for those game or concert goers from Campbell River or Calgary or Bellingham. Northwest Surrey (or Langley, or Coquitlam) do not.

Don't get me wrong. I support development for Surrey. But a stadium of that nature might be too much for Surrey.

Which begs the question: Why didn't the City of Vancouver contemplate the downtown waterfront site for a new stadium before Greg Kerfoot did? With its downtown location, convention center proximity, spectacular views, and RAV/Skytrain/Seabus/WCE/B-Line access, the new Whitecaps stadium represents an even better location than the current BC Place stadium site.

Just don't mix CFL with soccer. Thankfully we avoided that problem over here.

Just don't mix CFL with soccer. Thankfully we avoided that problem over here.

We may actually, if the new stadium has seating of 40,000+ the Lions WILL consider moving.

40,000 is way too big for the caps. I don't see why they'd want that or want to share the facility during the summer months.

Why would the whitecaps want to build a stadium with capacity of 40K ? and what upside sharing their stadium with the CFL. Football lines on the field during soccer matches look horrible.

What? Is there an eco in here or something? :) Thanks for the support Yatb!

didn't the people doing the convention centre piling when it was complete put on a fireworks display for the people living nearby - since they had caused so much disruption with the banging noises

^^ That's :lol: . No idea.

No the fireworks were put on by Shaw for the offical opening of the building even though it had been in use for close to a year at the time. The pilings continued at VCEC for a couple of months after that.

Anyways wouldn't it be a little strange to thank people for putting up with all the noise by making even more noise? :lol:

how about this? use temporary seating and up the capacity to 50,000 for the opening ceremony...a wonderful waterfront opening ceremony :)

how about this? use temporary seating and up the capacity to 50,000 for the opening ceremony...a wonderful waterfront opening ceremony :)

how would you install temporary seating? and where?


the problem is the contract for BC Place to host the ceremonies was signed years ago, during the bid process in 2002.

Developer pitches idea for smaller stadium
Says Vancouver doesn't need a massive BC Place, but tourism and convention officials are different


By Monte Stewart - Business Edge
Published: 02/09/2007 - Vol. 4, No. 3

A Vancouver developer wants to knock down BC Place Stadium and use part of the site for new condos.

But event planners say demolishing the 24-year-old stadium would hurt the city's chance to capitalize on increased convention business as the Vancouver Convention and Exhibition Centre begins to attract larger events in anticipation of its expansion site's opening in 2009.

"We would like to look at moving the stadium," says David Negrin, vice-president of development for Concord Pacific. "Our vision is to create a smaller stadium, because we don't need 60,000 (seats.)" Negrin says Concord Pacific would like to acquire part of the BC Place land from the province and see a new, smaller stadium built on the remainder of the property. Concord is preparing to develop two parcels of land that it already owns near the stadium.

Provincially owned BC Place recently had its roof repaired and reinflated after it was torn in a snowstorm, holds about 60,000 seats. Its future has been a hot topic of public debate since one of the roof's panels flapped like a sheet in the wind the first Friday morning in January.

The stadium is slated to be the site of 2010 Winter Olympic opening and closing ceremonies as well as nightly medal presentations. It also serves as the home of the B.C. Lions of the Canadian Football League and hosts tradeshows, corporate and community group meetings, concerts, high-school football games, minor soccer tournaments and other events.

The facility stages an average of 220 events per year, many of which are repeat annual activities. BC Place management has already booked some events for 2011 and beyond.

Concord Pacific, which has developed much of the False Creek area following Expo '86, is also building four condo towers near the stadium. That project includes a Costco store, which has already opened.

Negrin says Concord has not developed any specific plans for BC Place. However, an area business owner, who requests anonymity, says he has seen blueprints of a proposed Concord Pacific development on stadium land.

"There was a plan we had five years ago down in (what's) called 6C area - a park down there," says Negrin. "But that was over seven years ago. We've done nothing (new.)" He says the proposed smaller sports venue should be built on part of the BC Place rather than be moved elsewhere.

"I believe you take Robson Street right down to the water (False Creek), and on the east side (of BC Place), you build a stadium, like a 30,000(-seat) outdoor stadium," says Negrin. "It would take care of soccer, it would take care of football, and (event) venues, and then the other side is for developers to develop. Then, that way, it makes it affordable to (develop.)" Some estimates have pegged the value of the BC Place land at $400 million. But Negrin says a new stadium should be built near the present dome's location.

"I don't think we should be moving our sports district outside of the downtown core, because GM Place (home of the Vancouver Canucks of the National Hockey League) is there right now, there's the theatres all down there - the Ford Theatre and everything," says Negrin. "You also have BC Place. That's just a personal opinion."

The Vancouver Whitecaps soccer club, which operates men's and women's professional teams, is also proposing to build a 15,000-seat stadium along the downtown waterfront in Burrard Inlet adjacent to Gastown.

"I don't believe a stadium should be down in Gastown," says Negrin, stressing that is his own - and not the company's - view. "I think that's the wrong place. That's waterfront property. Leave that for development."

He says the Lions and Whitecaps should collaborate on a new facility that they could both use, even if that means holding a soccer game for 10,000 people in a 30,000-seat facility.

"Why build two stadiums? I think that's foolish," says Negrin.

But the Lions, who are interested in managing BC Place if the province doesn't want to, have declined to get involved with the Whitecaps.

Lions president and general manager Bob Ackles contends the proposed soccer stadium is too small for the football team's purposes.

While Concord Pacific would like to demolish BC Place, event planners say the stadium can expand the city's international-meetings market even further after the convention centre expansion is complete.

Barbara Maple, president and CEO of the Vancouver Convention and Exhibition Centre (VCEC) declines to discuss Concord Pacific's desire to tear down BC Place, saying it's not her issue to talk about.

But when asked if she would like BC Place to retain its current size, she replies: "It's worked well for us - yeah."

Maple says BC Place has enabled VCEC to offer another event venue to its clients. The VCEC has used BC Place for bigger banquets, parts of events that couldn't fit, or when they were looking for an off-site venue.

Both BC Place and the convention centre are operated by BC Pavilion Corp. But the two venues have separate management teams.

Maple indicates BC Place is needed to help grow Vancouver's convention market now that the convention centre expansion site has started to attract larger international meetings.

"It's not about sharing the business or trying to keep the same business - we're trying to grow the market for Vancouver and British Columbia, so that all of us get a bigger market share," says Maple.

In a speech during an invitation-only dinner for meeting planners and other guests, Maple says the VCEC has contracted for 50 events for 2008 and beyond, including 27 at the expansion site. All of the booked events have an economic impact of $874 million.

In an interview with Business Edge, she says the early bookings prove that the provincial and federal governments made the right decision in funding the expansion, which has had to contend with rapidly rising construction costs.

Maple says the response of the market has been positive. But the convention centre still has to grapple with issues including new passport rules for U.S. travellers and taxes.

Sarah Lowis, president of North Vancouver-based Sea to Sky Meeting Management, says there's no doubt about what the demolition of BC Place would mean to the convention market.

"It'll be a loss," says Lowis.

She says BC Place suits the "meetings of a bigger scope" which VCEC management and Tourism Vancouver are trying to attract. Her company is organizing the World Congress of Physical Therapists at BC Place, which is expected to attract 3,000-4,000 people, in June.

"The current (VCEC) venue cannot accommodate it," says Lowis. "So it was a natural that we had to go to BC (Place) Stadium."

The stadium will still be needed for conventions once the convention centre's expansion site, which will serve as the Olympic broadcast centre, is open, she adds.

"I can still see (BC Place) serving its purpose when the bigger conventions come, because we'll soon outgrow the expanded facility," says Lowis.

http://www.businessedge.ca/article.cfm/newsID/14636.cfm



Hopefully what will happen is the Whitecaps will have their own 15,000-30,000 seat stadium at the Gastown waterfront and the Lions will have their own facility (a new 40,000-50,000 seat retractable roof stadium or renovated BC Place) at the BC Place site.

"Why build two stadiums? I think that's foolish" The only thing foolish here is YOU Mr. Negrin. The 2 stadiums serve 2 completely different needs. The Lions need at LEAST 45-50,000 seats. The Whitecaps need only 15-25,000. Any other size would not suit one of the 2 teams. This doesn't even cover the exhibition space that would be lost if BC Place was torn down, without building a suitable replacement. A city like Vancouver should not limit itself to only having one option for conventions and exhibition shows. What if 2 large groups wanted to hold conventions/shows during the same weekend? In Las Vegas, they routinely host several conventions/shows at the same time? Why couldn't Vancouver do the same?

How is going from a 60,000, and a 20,000 seat stadium (80,000 seats) to one stadium at 40,000 seats considered progress? Ditto for the comparision of convention space before and after the demise of BC Place. Shouldn't a city be looking to expand more space rather than taking away from it?

I can't remember nor find where or if this was posted. I think I might of read it in the paper...anyway...

Feb 26, 2007
PROPOSED WHITECAPS WATERFRONT STADIUM OPEN HOUSE DATES ANNOUNCED

VANCOUVER, B.C. – The City of Vancouver and Vancouver Whitecaps will host three Open Houses next week to showcase the Central Waterfront Hub Study and the revised proposed Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium site. The public is strongly encouraged to attend one of the public open houses, scheduled by the City of Vancouver. Feedback provided by residents, community groups and businesses will be integral to the success of this project.

Currently, the City of Vancouver is conducting a 16 month planning process to create an Urban Design and Transportation Plan for the Central Waterfront Hub area around Waterfront Station. Early stages of this planning process will also involve a review of the revised proposed Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium. The review will focus primarily on demonstrating the ability to the resolve five key requirements raised by Vancouver City Council last July. The results of the review will be presented to Council this summer, at which time Council will decide whether the proposed stadium will proceed to a rezoning process.

Open Houses will be held on the following dates:

Date: Tuesday, March 6, 3:00 p.m. - 7:00 p.m.
Location: Waterfront Station Concourse (East end), 601 West Cordova Street

Date: Thursday, March 8, 3:00 p.m. - 7:00 p.m.
Location: Chinese Cultural Centre Auditorium, 50 East Pender Street
* Chinese translation will be available at this session

Date: Saturday, March 10, 10:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m.
Location: Central Library Concourse (North end), 350 West Georgia Street

Individuals unable to attend any of the Open Houses can provide written comments by emailing Matt Shillito, Project Planner for the City of Vancouver at matt.shillito@vancouver.ca.

^ and here are the open house poster boards:

http://vancouver.ca/commsvcs/currentplanning/whitecaps/pdf/070306-OpenHouseBoards-Final-eb.pdf

It would be horrible if this project did not get the green light. I can understand some of the initial concerns with the first site (i.e. saftey in relation to hazardous cargo on tracks etc.), but now that the site has been moved, I cannot understand how there would be any opposition. It is almost unheard of now to have a stadium built with all private funding. I think this would turn into a world-class concert venue as well.

^ some of the opposition has to do with moving the seabus terminal.. if they were to move the terminal towards canada place then the seabus might not have enough room to dock or leave if there's a cruise ship docked.. and if they were to move the terminal out further towards the water then people would have to walk a long distance to get to and from seabus

^ some of the opposition has to do with moving the seabus terminal.. if they were to move the terminal towards canada place then the seabus might not have enough room to dock or leave if there's a cruise ship docked.. and if they were to move the terminal out further towards the water then people would have to walk a long distance to get to and from seabus

The idea to move the SeaBus terminal into Canada Place's third cruise ship berth is retarded. The second idea of moving out further into water is actually quite practicle. If they're worried about it being a long walk, they could easily install people movers like what they have at airports:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/89/241941662_f90c80609b.jpg?v=0

The problem with people movers, of course, is that they are inherently misguided; they speed up travel for the people who need it the least. Grandmas, people in crutches, &c. have a harder time with them than people capable of running.

Going from a 60,000 seat stadium to a stadium with 40,000 seats is progress because the 40,000-seat stadium wouldn't lose the huge amounts of money that BC place does.

^ Grandmas or people in crutches shouldn't even be using transit.

Going from a 60,000 seat stadium to a stadium with 40,000 seats is progress because the 40,000-seat stadium wouldn't lose the huge amounts of money that BC place does.I'm confused. You'd have to be refering to the BC Lions situation. The Whitecaps would be moving from 6 thousand to a 15 thousand seater. Nothing wrong with that is there?

Any news?

Vancouver is a great sports city -- pity about its sports stadiums

Derek Moscato, Special to The Province
Published: Monday, April 30, 2007

Vancouver has great sports fans -- that much has been proven once again during this latest Canucks run in the Stanley Cup playoffs, regardless of how far they go. The fandom extends beyond hockey to other sports, including football, soccer and baseball.

Here's what missing from this scenario: iconic, world-class outdoor stadiums for a vibrant sports culture. Think Fenway Park in Boston or Wrigley Field in Chicago.

This is a shame. Compare our situation to that of our southerly neighbour Seattle, home to some of the continent's finest sporting venues.

Safeco Field, where pro baseball's Seattle Mariners play, is a shrine to the sport and a tremendous addition to the industrial district south of Seattle's downtown core.

Neighbouring and newer Qwest Field, home of the National Football League Seahawks, is equally impressive as a Seattle architectural landmark -- its ambitious roof design looming large over Puget Sound.

In part, Qwest Field is a testament to the corporate muscle that exists in Seattle. Microsoft co-founder and Seahawks team owner Paul Allen paid for 30 per cent of the stadium's cost out of his own pocket.

And that brings us back to Vancouver, and its frustrating tale of two stadiums --one that has yet to be built, the other potentially set for a post-2010 date with the wrecking ball.

Pundits here have traditionally argued that a lack of corporate clout has translated into minimal investment in civic amenities.

But that argument has fallen flat since Vancouver Whitecaps owner Greg Kerfoot, a trailblazer in software circles, decided to parlay his passion for soccer into the funding of a state-of-the-art, $70 million, open-air stadium on Vancouver's downtown waterfront.

So what's the hold-up on Vancouver's smaller-scale answer to Qwest and Safeco? It has since met resistance from those concerned about blocked views, imposing architecture, so-called noise pollution and the imagined spectre of drunken soccer hooligans marauding through Crab Park and Gastown post-game on a Sunday afternoon.

To their credit, the stadium's backers have since gone back to the drawing board to address some of these concerns. But the ongoing review-approval process is set to be a long slog.

Bottom-line: Between NIMBYism and red tape, it will be years yet before fans can converge on the downtown waterfront to soak up sunshine and soccer in a world-class sports venue.

In the meantime, several blocks south of the waterfront site, the beleaguered B.C. Place Stadium is finally getting over its brush with infamy after suffering through a collapsed roof.

While it's business as usual for the stadium these days, the lingering memory of the roof flapping in the January wind helps underscore Vancouver's sombre civic reality: We're a city with a great sports tradition in spite of its stadiums.

This sports town deserves so much better.

dmoscato@yahoo.com


© The Vancouver Province 2007

What is the timeline for major decission/approval from the city on this? I've lost track. "This summer" for the council to decide whether or not to proceed to re-zoning isn't very specific.

Hey guys, I haven't been around in ages but I did find a new rendering and map at the Whitecaps site but I don't know if this has been posted yet. Link to page with larger pics - http://www.whitecapsfc.com/stadium/waterfront/renderings/

http://i5.tinypic.com/5zcpk0p.jpg

^ OMG, i love it!!!!

is it just me, or is that a new building development south of the stadium (to the right of the SeaBus terminal and to the left of CP Station)?

If you look closely on the large render you can see an upper tier now going right round all stands including the south stand which didn't have one before on the 30k expansion render.

Not sure about the trees in the southwest part of the stadium. The southeast has seats so wouldn't it be better with seats in both parts? But this is awesome regardless and such an improvement from before!

If you look closely on the large render you can see an upper tier now going right round all stands including the south stand which didn't have one before on the 30k expansion render.

Not sure about the trees in the southwest part of the stadium. The southeast has seats so wouldn't it be better with seats in both parts? But this is awesome regardless and such an improvement from before!

i remember the city said the Whitecaps had incorrectly calculated how much space/footprint they would need for the stadium to achieve the number of seats and sightlines.

i am guessing they expanded the stadium footprint (thus a larger footprint and more tiers) and/or more stadium seats than the originally proposed 15,000.


And again, Kerfoot owns the airspace over the railyard. it seems like he's planning for an office/condo development to the south of the stadium if you look closely at the rendering:
http://i5.tinypic.com/5zcpk0p.jpg

It looks like it's 30k...damn I'm excited. Perhaps Kerfoot is going to pull off something similar to Chelsea FCs Stamford Bridge Stadium development "Chelsea Village" with hotels/condos, shops, etc.

It looks like it's 30k...damn I'm excited. Perhaps Kerfoot is going to pull off something similar to Chelsea FCs Stamford Bridge Stadium development "Chelsea Village" with hotels/condos, shops, etc.

i know the Whitecaps want a soccer-specific stadium, especially for the MLS, but is it possible that plans have been changed behind doors to include the BC Lions?

yea....Canada Line Waterfront Stadium is going to be quite crowded.

The Lions are not interested in a deal with Kerfoot (I'm sure it's nothing personal) , they would love to buy BC place should PavCo be willing to sell it to them at the very least they are willing to run it for Pavco as they beleive they could make some serious money off of it.

I would prefer that the Lions stay put, I like our Dome. While I don't think the schedules would line up to see the Lions/Canucks/Whitecaps all play homegames on the same night, I imagine there could be nights with the Lions/Canucks playing and a concert at the new stadium. All within a km or so of each other, that would be quite the atmosphere.

Must build!

Must build!

Yes, we're starving for news on this!

Nice. I like the fact the stadium opens to the ocean framing a view of the North Shore mountains.

If this stadium actually is built it would be sad if the existing Seabus terminal is left in the same decrepit shape that it is in and not replaced and or given a major refurbishment. It would also be nice if there could be a continuation of the foreshore park from the Convention Centre through to the stadium and Crab Park.

must build..but change design

must build..but change design

Agree... I think it should fit in more with the shoreline of tha area. So maybe a little more brick (to match Gastown). Also, the stadium should have a lower profile. Just seems to high right now.

But that being said it's all a matter of getting used to something.

Agree... I think it should fit in more with the shoreline of tha area. So maybe a little more brick (to match Gastown). Also, the stadium should have a lower profile. Just seems to high right now.

But that being said it's all a matter of getting used to something.

The new stadium site is nowhere near Gastown....and brick? I hope not...it's quite cliche. I'd like a refreshing and inspiring landmark design on par with Canada Place and the new VCEC.

I'd like a refreshing and inspiring landmark design on par with Canada Place and the new VCEC.

CP may be a landmark design, but the VCEC is anything but. It looks like a casino parkade.

The new stadium site is nowhere near Gastown....and brick? I hope not...it's quite cliche. I'd like a refreshing and inspiring landmark design on par with Canada Place and the new VCEC.

LOL! I know it's not anywhere near Gastown, but if you look at it from far away (like from Lonsdale, it would look like it's in Gastown). And when I mean brick... I don't mean the entire stadium. That would be horrifying =P.

The stadium should have some of the historic elements from its surrounds incorporated into the design. When I mean brick, I mean the stadium should have brick columns.

More importantly though... I think the stadium should have a lower profile.

The stadium should have some of the historic elements from its surrounds incorporated into the design. When I mean brick, I mean the stadium should have brick columns.

More importantly though... I think the stadium should have a lower profile.

how about NO?

how about NO?

LOL! Alight.... :nuts:

Mr X is probably like: :bash:

LOL! Alight.... :nuts:

Mr X is probably like: :bash:

"NO" with a gun to your head, as well as to everyone in your family.

"NO" with a gun to your head, as well as to everyone in your family.

:rofl:

Stadium slow, but 'Caps look at MLS
By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS

The Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium proposal won't return to Vancouver city council until the new year.

Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi said the city council update is "on the backburner" until a land deal is reached with the Vancouver Port Authority.

"We're hoping by the end of the year that deal can be done," Lenarduzzi said.

Two years ago, the Whitecaps announced their intention to build a 15,000-seat stadium atop railway tracks north of Waterfront Station.

New plans were revealed last January showing the stadium site extending over the SeaBus terminal and into Coal Harbour.

City council gave unanimous, conditional approval in July 2006 to the project, which would be privately financed by media-shy Whitecaps' owner Greg Kerfoot.

The B.C. Major Projects Inventory lists the estimated cost at $75 million.

Meanwhile, Lenarduzzi said the Whitecaps could host another international match at B.C. Place Stadium with a high-profile box office draw.

Wednesday's scoreless exhibition with David Beckham and the Los Angeles Galaxy drew 48,172.

"What this game has done for us is it's resulted in us perhaps seeking out those kinds of opportunities that we might not have done," he said. "We've heightened our credibility, if it needed heightening, in North America."

The possibility of the Whitecaps joining the Galaxy in Major League Soccer, which may expand to Seattle for 2009, hinges upon the new stadium being built, Lenarduzzi said.

For now, the club is committed to the United Soccer Leagues' First Division.






Waterfront stadium proposal still sits
Vancouver Whitecaps could have a shot at a better league

Kent Gilchrist, The Province
Published: Friday, November 09, 2007

The burning question is what weighty decisions could the port authority have on its plate that might be more important than addressing the question on the soccer stadium that Vancouver Whitecaps owner Greg Kerfoot is willing to build without public funding?

Then there's this one. Is there anyone awake at city hall to give a boot in the ass to whomever at the port authority is holding up a decision for someone willing to spend $70 million of his own money to transform a piece of industrial property into a waterfront jewel?

So far it has taken four years and endless hoop-jumping by the Whitecaps and their interminably patient owner. Me thinks if Larry Campbell, who was running the city when the Whitecaps began the process in 2003, was still the mayor of Vancouver some kind of decision would have been reached a long time ago. But four inordinately long years, several world class soccer events and who knows what other kinds of glorious opportunities to make use of a waterfront stadium to show off the city in a very good light have passed by since then.

While the Whitecaps aren't as concerned about the extraneous stuff -- surely it could be put to some kind of use if it's built in time for the 2010 Winter Olympics, for instance -- there is some anxiety with the knowledge that Seattle and one other city will become the 15th and 16th MLS franchises in the next year or so. And they will expand to a total of 18 teams by 2010 or 2011.

If, for some inexplicable reason, the city hasn't completed its public consultation and rezoning before the MLS governors are deciding which cities to award the last two franchises, there's concern the expansion door will be closed for several years. (Some of you might have noticed that no matter how the NHL tries to change the rules to juice up the offence in the game, the quality of play is still suffering nearly a decade after its runaway expansion of the late 1990s.)

The proposed waterfront stadium is next to the Seabus terminal, but it's not as if you miss one you only have to wait a few minutes for the next. For the Whitecaps, it could be a real long time if they aren't in on this wave of expansion.

The port authority and the city of Vancouver should certainly be aware after Wednesday night's turnout of 48,000 to see David Beckham and the Los Angeles Galaxy at B.C. Place Stadium and the complete sellouts last summer at expanded Swangard Stadium for the FIFA Under-20 World Cup that there's a strong appetite for the game here. If that point ever needed reinforcing. Or perhaps the fact that the best players this country produces might be able to stay and play on this continent might be a bone on which city fathers can chew.

Following the current council's unanimous approval for the Whitecaps proposal last summer and the four points of contention that the team dealt with, the only one remaining is for the port authority to give its approval. Then it goes back to the city for final public consultation. The Whitecaps have been told that after port authority approval, it could still take up to two years. They have shovels poised just in case it's less.

Too bad Kerfoot couldn't jump up and down and threaten to walk away. Sadly, nobody would believe him since he's been so quietly patient and accommodating all this time.

hkgilchrist@yahoo.com


© The Vancouver Province 2007

Great news that this is still alive!

Is there anyone awake at city hall to give a boot in the ass to whomever at the port authority is holding up a decision for someone willing to spend $70 million of his own money to transform a piece of industrial property into a waterfront jewel?
Yes, boot in the ass! The port authority is only giving up air rights for God's sake.

Vancouver excluded from Major League Soccer expansion
Dan Stinson, Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, November 13, 2007

The Vancouver Whitecaps won't be included in Major League Soccer's expansion plans - at least in the foreseeable future - unless the team has a proper stadium in which to play, says MLS commissioner Don Garber.

Speaking from Seattle, where he announced earlier today that a still-to-be-named Seattle expansion franchise will join MLS in 2009, Garber said that until the Whitecaps have a stadium plan in place "we are unable to make any commitments to Vancouver."

As things stand now, the Whitecaps may already be out of the running to join North America's premier soccer circuit.

Garber, who has visited Vancouver and met with Whitecaps officials including team owner Greg Kerfoot, described the city as "a wonderful soccer market that has had a lot of success in soccer."

But he stressed that Vancouver must have a proper stadium to be considered for MLS expansion.

"The key for Vancouver is being sure they have a stadium plan," Garber said. "It's the third leg of the stool to give the city an opportunity to be part of the mix in future MLS expansion."

MLS will add a 14th franchise, the reborn San Jose Earthquakes, in 2008. Garber said the league hopes to add a 16th franchise by the end of this year before Seattle comes aboard in 2009.

MLS has long-range plans for 17th and 18th franchises, but Garber said no timeline has been place on that expansion.

"Many cities across the United States, plus Montreal, have indicated interest in becoming the 17th and 18th franchises," Garber said.

"We would give priority to the cities that have proper stadiums and the right business plans. Vancouver can only get into that mix with a proper stadium."

The Whitecaps announced in October 2005 their plans to build Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium, a planned 15,000-seat facility on Vancouver's waterfront in the Gastown area.

The cost of the stadium will be covered by Kerfoot.

But Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi said the stadium project has been delayed by slow-moving negotiations with the Vancouver Port Authority on "a number of issues."

"We're not moving along as quickly as we need to be on this project," said Lenarduzzi. "A proper stadium here is the issue with MLS. I don't know how it can be put any stronger than Don Garber did today."

Lenarduzzi said that negotiations have been so slow with the Port Authority that the Whitecaps can't put a firm timeline on completion of the stadium.

"The best-case scenario now is sometime in 2011," he said.

Garber said that might be too late for the Whitecaps to be considered as an MLS expansion team. "Two of the many cities that Vancouver is competing with for an expansion franchise are Portland and Montreal," said Garber. "Both of those cities are in the mix because they have stadium plans in place. It's hard to imagine Vancouver being part of MLS without a proper stadium."

The stadium project will go to Vancouver city council for final approval after the Whitecaps' negotiations with the Port Authority have successfully concluded.

City councillor Suzanne Anton said she will urge council to act quickly on final approval. "Negotiations with the Port Authority are primarily centred on where the stadium will be located," said Anton. "It's not resolved yet, but the process needs to be speeded up. We have a wonderful opportunity here for a first-class facility that will serve many, many purposes, including soccer. I will urge council to move forward quickly on this project."

The Whitecaps currently play in the second-tier United Soccer Leagues First Division at 5,200-seat Swangard Stadium in Burnaby.

Swangard Stadium doesn't come close to meeting MLS seating requirements.

"Ideally, we want 18,000 to 27,000-seat stadiums in MLS," said Garber. "That's the appropriate size. But we'd rather be closer to 18,000 because of the intimacy those stadiums have."

The Seattle Sounders will play their final USLFD season in 2008 before the Seattle MLS entry moves into 72,000-seat Qwest Field in 2009.


Qwest Field will have a capacity of about 25,000 for MLS games. Lenarduzzi said moving into 60,000-seat BC Place Stadium is not an option for the Whitecaps, even on a temporary basis as negotiations continue on the waterfront stadium.

"BC Place Stadium is not an option, both financially and as a proper facility," he said. "First impressions with the public are very important. We want a stadium that our fans can identify with, and be comfortable with, from the very first game."

danstinson@shaw.ca




and what did i tell ya?....well, i told you so.

Somebody please kick the Port Authority in the rear.
Who has jurisdiction over them? Is it the city, province or Feds?

Somebody please kick the Port Authority in the rear.
Who has jurisdiction over them? Is it the city, province or Feds?

Feds :ohno:

The VPA can not sell the land to them or allow a stadium to be builton it's land, it's against the law (Marine Act). The only solution the VPA has available to them is they are allowed to exchange the land for another parcel or equal or greater value, hence the holdups.

The VPA can not sell the land to them or allow a stadium to be builton it's land, it's against the law (Marine Act). The only solution the VPA has available to them is they are allowed to exchange the land for another parcel or equal or greater value, hence the holdups.

Thanks Vanlaw and jlousa. I was totally ignorant about that.
Feds in the picture definitely spell S....L...OOOOOOOOW. :ohno:

can we get an update on the Whitecaps Stadium? everyone apparently hates BC Place so Whitecaps Stadium is our last hope

i want this stadium so bad.
GO CAPS!!!

can we get an update on the Whitecaps Stadium? everyone apparently hates BC Place so Whitecaps Stadium is our last hope

Last hope for what?

And I hope that the stadium is approved as is. I don't want it to be anything but a soccer specific stadium. It would ruin Vancouver's chances of getting in the MLS if the stadium is expanded and accommodated for BC Lions.

CP may be a landmark design, but the VCEC is anything but. It looks like a casino parkade.

:okay: Good one.

http://www.cknw.com/Channels/Reg/NewsLocal/Story.aspx?ID=1005329

and all of this drama before an announcement on the future of BC Place.

a sad day indeed for soccer fans and for that matter sports fans in general

i feel bad for kerfoot. he is spending all this money on something so many people want, and i'm sure its never going to happen.

sometimes, this city sucks

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=81fa5f58-1c00-4086-a64b-572974b0706f

^^
i just do not know what to think about that article, except that it is about time we have somebody new sitting in the mayor's chair. enough with the left wing nut jobs running city hall:ohno:

Umm the stadium holdup has nothing to do with the city, the city has approved the stadium in principle, the problem is the Whitecaps can not enter into an agreement with the VPA. It wouldn't matter who the mayor is, they have no bearing on those negeotions.

Umm the stadium holdup has nothing to do with the city, the city has approved the stadium in principle, the problem is the Whitecaps can not enter into an agreement with the VPA. It wouldn't matter who the mayor is, they have no bearing on those negeotions.

Still this is hard to swallow! I remember when I saw rendering of the first project ; the scenery of this stadium was phenomenal. Soccer/football is moving forward everywhere in Canada, except it seems in Vancouver where it should be at home thanks to fair weather conditions. It's privately funded a team is already there and they already attract fair crowds and still you give them the finger! I just don't understand the powers in charge!

BC Place is being ripped down after 2010

Umm the stadium holdup has nothing to do with the city, the city has approved the stadium in principle, the problem is the Whitecaps can not enter into an agreement with the VPA. It wouldn't matter who the mayor is, they have no bearing on those negeotions.

Well, you do have to admit it did take awhile to get to that agreement in principle with the city.

jlousa can you confirm or deny this rumour please:

kerfoot is in discussions with the city of vancouver to swap his waterfront holdings for the original site on main and terminal

Umm it's not a rumour since it's not going around.
There is no alternate location for the stadium at this point.

The False Creek flats area is already spoken for as well.

I don't beleive the COV dragged their feet on the stadium at all, they voiced they support ~1year ago already. I'm sure someone can look up the exact date.

Well this isn't a rumour: Kerfoot's attorney owns the land below which Kerfoot bought the air rights for

Kerfoot's lawyer owns the train tracks???? Wow where did you get that info from?
I think you spend too much time looking for info and are reading stuff in a lot of wrong places.

FAACCK!! I hope this gets solved 'cause when I plan on going to Vancouver I wish to go to your Waterfront stadium to cheer on the Reds!

FAACCK!! I hope this gets solved 'cause when I plan on going to Vancouver I wish to go to your Waterfront stadium to cheer on the Reds!

you better not mean TFC.

here, its all about the white and blue

White is the colour
Soccer is the game
We're all together and winning is our aim
So cheer us on through the sun and rain
Whitecaps, Whitecaps is our name!:banana:

I know something

The whole Whitecaps stadium thing has to be the most frustrating topic for me! Barely any movement over such a long time.

BC Place is being ripped down after 2010I guess technically that's true.

I know something


I guess technically that's true too. Too bad it's nothing useful. :lol:

It would be a damn shame if Kerfoot dies from old age before getting his stadium approved, cuz no one else would be so willing to be doublefucked by the city and port authority again and again...

I like Kerfoot and applaud him for trying to build this stadium, but he hasn't been screwed by anyone except himself.
1st he bought airspace w/o prior approval by the city that he could do anything with it, at the very least he should have inserted conditions of approval on the sale so he get back off if it didn't work out.
2nd he would think the VPA would sell/trade him a different plot of land for a fraction of what it's worth.

The city didn't do anything wrong, they looked out for the stakeholders involved and rejected the 1st proposal as most even here would agree was weak, they approved the 2nd and 3rd proposals which were much better.

VPA sold them airspace for a low price, it's not fault they were unable to make it work. They also can not be blamed for not giving up a piece of valuable ports land for anything less then it's worth. They are in the business of ensuring the success of the port nothing else.

I know something

I think in the past you have claimed you are 34 years old (or maybe that was your evil twin, TG3), but unfortunately, like everything else you post, I just have a really hard time believing it.

just wait till next week

Senator offers help in waterfront stadium impasse
Ex-mayor Larry Campbell to seek feds' support

Damian Inwood
The Province

Tuesday, April 29, 2008

Vancouver Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi is welcoming an offer by Sen. Larry Campbell to play striker in stalled talks over a proposed waterfront soccer stadium.

"We'd welcome anything that he can do to get it to a quicker resolution," said Lenarduzzi yesterday. "We are more than happy to get him involved."

Plans for the 15,000-seat, open-air stadium near the SeaBus terminal have stalled over a proposed land swap between the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority and 'Caps owner Greg Kerfoot.

According to Lenarduzzi, the United Soccer League team is offering three hectares for one hectare owned by the port authority.

"Someone like Larry Campbell, who can ask the questions and get the answers, might be able to connect the feds back to the Vancouver Port Authority. And if that helps to get us toward a conclusion, then that's good news," said Lenarduzzi.

He said the club was caught off-guard by a decision last week to go public with details of the negotiations by Patrick McLaughlin, the port authority's director of planning and development.

The stadium proposal was first raised three years ago when Campbell was mayor of Vancouver.

"I'm not lobbying for it," Campbell said.

"I'm just suggesting there may be a role for an honest broker here. I certainly support it. I supported it from the start."

Campbell said the project seemed to have momentum, but has since "dropped off the radar."

Campbell said he'd talk to International Trade Minister David Emerson and Indian Affairs Minister Chuck Strahl, both from B.C.

McLaughlin couldn't be reached for comment.

He said last week part of the disagreement revolved around the value of the port-owned land.

GO LARRY GO GO GO!!!

Senator Campbell on Team 1040 at 4 pm with Pratt and Taylor

Stadium plan includes condos
Waterfront soccer venue just part of a shrewd development proposal

Miro Cernetig
Vancouver Sun

Wednesday, April 30, 2008

General manager Bob Lenarduzzi of Vancouver Whitecaps (left) chats with owner Greg Kerfoot, who wants to put up $90 million of his own money to build a new soccer stadium on the Vancouver waterfront.

It's supposed to be the field of Vancouver's soccer dreams. But what will also be coming to the proposed new waterfront stadium isn't just fans: it's condos, condos, condos.

As the goal-challenged David Beckham has proven, yet again, professional soccer is a dubious bet on this side of the Atlantic, even with talent and celebrity jetted in to goose up the game's image.

Soccer, on this continent, ranks somewhere between hockey and roller derby. It may take off some day I suppose, though we've been waiting a while. Just ask Pele.

So, it's always intrigued me that one of our local business titans wants to dole out $90 million of his personal wealth to build a waterfront stadium for our local professional soccer team, the Vancouver Whitecaps. This is either a soccer nut, a sports visionary or a guy who is a very big risk taker.

Well, it turns out there's another tag you might want to attach to Kerfoot: Shrewd real estate developer. While we've been concentrating on the soccer stadium, often dubbed as a selfless example of "sports philanthropism", there's been more at play than just generosity and love of sport.

The Vancouver billionaire has his eye on developing a large chunk of the land around the proposed stadium and, more specifically, using the air space above it. Kerfoot, I'm told, hopes to build a phalanx of towers around the new stadium, a major increase in density in the downtown and a skyline-changing development.

That's maybe not such a bad idea, if done right. We're a growing city and some more commercial and residential space is the future.

But there's a serious complication here: that land Kerfoot wants to use is now occupied by railyards -- a key part of Metro Vancouver's port operations and its future as a Asia-Pacific trading centre.

In order to build his soccer palace and towers, Kerfoot needs to build it over a wide swathe of the old railyards, those familiar old tracks you see snaking along the waterfront of Gastown. Now, given that he owns the entire 18 acres those rails are on, that wouldn't seem so difficult.

Yet it is.

The snag is the billionaire also needs to cut a deal with Port of Vancouver. That's because half of his proposed soccer stadium needs to be sited on the port's waterfront. But the Vancouver Port Authority is driving a hard deal. In exchange for that crucial piece of waterfront, they are asking Kerfoot for ownership to all of the railyard lands.

The federal agency's thinking is that they need to guarantee the long-term existence of all the railway yards to ensure Vancouver retains a working port linked to the Pacific. It should be made clear that the Port Authority isn't against him building atop the tracks; they just want the trains to keep rolling underneath, even out of sight.

So far, Kerfoot isn't biting.

He's offering up ownership to about only half of the railway lands. He wants to hang onto the real estate west of his stadium, where all the towers would go up.

Partly the reason is future profits. The half of the railyards closer to Vancouver's city centre will likely be worth more once they are developed than the eastern half.

But there's another good reason to hold onto those railyards.

Once the stadium and towers start going up, engineers will need to drive massive pilings down into the railyards to support the structures. If you want to get an idea of how many pillars, walk under the road in front of the Pan Pacific Hotel one day. It's a forest of concrete pilings.

To carry out that sort of buttressing, engineers would likely want to re-route some of the existing rail tracks or even get rid of some altogether. It would be a complex task.

As the current landlord, Kerfoot would only have to deal with Canadian Pacific, the railway that has the right of way on his land, to get that tricky job done. It would likely be a tough negotiation. But CP might have its price for the land, as it's shown in the past with other railyards. But if Kerfoot needs to make such a deal with a new public agency, that is the Vancouver Port Authority, it's probably going to be even tougher going. Port officials view the railyards as sacrosanct and want to retain their full capacity.

When you boil down this standoff, it's the classic Vancouver dilemma: we've got the greasy traditional economy running into the glitzy new one of glass towers and entertainment complexes.

In Vancouver we've tended to go for the new over the old, often with terrific results. A case in point is the transformation of the False Creek industrial lands into new neighourhoods.

But in this case, the old economy may not be so easy to pave over. A soccer stadium would be nice. But not at the expense of our port. There's a public interest in retaining the railyards, a strategic part of our Asia-Pacific trade, which, with apologies to David Beckham and Mr. Kerfoot, I bet has a much brighter future than soccer.

mcernetig@png.canwest.com

^^
this looks like it could get ugly:ohno:

I'd like to know why the Whitecaps didn't disclose the whole story earlier instead of just the most appealing parts

now that the entire situation is clear, it's also clear why the Port is making their arguments

^^

I know something

um... gameseven07...

i thought you knew about this already

drill a tunnel for the trains and then build the buildings if you really want too :P

Lenarduzzi: Vancouver Whitecaps had no plans for condos
"We had no idea there were plans to develop when we bought" says soccer boss.

Doug Ward, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, April 30, 2008

Vancouver Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi says team owner Greg Kerfoot had no plans for condos or any commercial development when he purchased land on the waterfront for his proposed new soccer stadium.

The former Vancouver soccer star said a front-page story in Wednesday's Vancouver Sun headlined "Stadium plan includes condos" conveyed the impression that Kerfoot's plan to build a $90-million stadium was as much a real estate play as it was an investment in professional soccer.

"If I read that headline, I'm thinking that there is something sinister taking place here," Lenarduzzi told The Vancouver Sun's editorial board Wednesday. "That's bullshit. That's not the case."

The article, by Sun columnist Miro Cernetig, said Kerfoot plans to build a "phalanx of towers" around the new stadium on Burrard Inlet. But Lenarduzzi said Kerfoot has no specific plans to build condo towers, and that when the reclusive billionaire purchased the rail yard land between Gastown and Vancouver Harbour in 2005 for $22 million, the City of Vancouver had no strategy to bring development to the area.

The likelihood that there would be development on the waterfront land became apparent only in 2007 when the city initiated a planning program to create an urban design and transportation plan for the Central Waterfront Hub area around Waterfront Station. A city report on the Hub plan talks about extending the downtown business district to the water to provide new development such as offices, shops, restaurants, hotels and public facilities.

The possibility that Kerfoot could sell land around the stadium for commercial development came as a surprise to him and the Whitecaps, said Lenarduzzi.

"We had no idea that there were any plans to develop when we bought." Whitecaps chief operating officer Rachel Lewis said the city has "put forward plans to expand the city limits and that will involve all kinds of property owners, not just the Whitecaps."

Lewis said the eventual mix of development is unclear, adding that the development costs will be high because "you're building on a railway."

The Whitecaps considered the waterfront site only after the initial choice of a stadium site at Main and Terminal was rejected by the city, she added, because of a mistaken expectation that it would be needed for the 2010 Winter Olympics.

But Lenarduzzi acknowledged that Kerfoot will probably sell some of the waterfront land for commercial development.

"We haven't gone into any detail on that side of it. But having said that, if the Hub study confirms that in the end they [the city] are going to develop that area, somebody is going to develop it."

Lenarduzzi said that Kerfoot is "not using the stadium for the ability to develop."

"And if you were into it to develop, you'd forget about the stadium and have the opportunity to make much more money."

But Kerfoot's priority is the stadium, Lenarduzzi added.

"The real estate aspects of it - unlike what your paper suggests this morning - have not been the driving force. And if we'd had the approval at Main and Terminal, we'd have a stadium there."

Lenarduzzi said the Whitecaps bought the whole stretch of railway land from Waterfront Station to Main Street because Canadian Pacific wouldn't break it up into parcels.

The Whitecaps have been given conditional approval by the city to proceed with the 15,000-seat stadium project. But the stadium is on hold until the Whitecaps can resolve a land dispute with the Vancouver Port Authority.

Kerfoot owns 10.5 hectares of rail yard behind Water Street, but he also needs about 1.5 hectares of waterfront owned by the Port Authority. The Port Authority wants the rail yard to guarantee rail access to the port. Port officials say the land Kerfoot is offering in trade - roughly the eastern half of the rail yard - is worth $30 million less than the port's waterfront parcel to the north.






Soccer stadium opponents don't recognize facts

Letter
Published: Wednesday, April 30, 2008

Re: Central waterfront doesn't need another eyesore, April 26

Once again, stadium opponents play fast and loose with the facts. In her letter, Caryn Duncan makes a ridiculous assertion that a majority of Vancouverites are opposed to the proposed Whitecaps stadium. She knows the facts don't bear this out.

Throughout the stadium debate, there have been four rounds of public consultation and two scientific polls conducted by the respected Mustel Group. All of these studies have shown that, on average, 70 per cent of Vancouverites support the Whitecaps stadium on the waterfront. On top of that, thousands of letters, e-mails and signatures have been presented to our local politicians by citizens who don't normally get involved in politics. That may explain why city council has twice voted unanimously in favour of the stadium.

That the stadium is being held up by the complacency of our local and federal politicians is one thing. But it shouldn't be held up any further by elitist activists who still number only a few dozen.

BILL CURRIE

Friends of Soccer

Vancouver

Why is it so hard to imagine that soccer might have fan support in Canada? I laughed at the suggestion by the author that the success of the sport hinged on David Beckham's performance. He plays in MLS...Vancouver plays in USL. How are the two remotely related? And how has TFC become such a success? How did Beckham help that cause?

Its just sad to see random people trying to sully Kerfoot's name just to halt the stadium deal. The guy has done a lot for the sport in this country. The Whitecaps organization is amongst the best run organizations in all of North America and it has little to do with churning huge amounts of revenue.

^^ People just prefer to ignore the "small" achievements of the caps! "Packing" Swansgard weeks in and out! Some don't see the hundreds or thousands of amateurs at SFU and UBC on any given week ends. Some focus on real estate ops, some think to much about the future of BC Place.

My two cents, they build a SSS in Toronto using feds money. They did it in Montreal using Mr Saputo's money and the support of the city (but no money from province or feds) Mr. Kerfoot said he would finance it just the way Mr. Saputo did! I know real estate is more expensive in Van but still. I don't see lack of enthusiasm here I see a lack of drive and the will to derail a great iconic project! I don't understand the opponents.

I hope a SSS get build somewhere in Vancouver or the metropolitan area before too long!

its starting to look bad for the new stadium:ohno:


May 20, 2008

Stadium dead in the water?

By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS


The proposed Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium looks dim unless Bob Lenarduzzi picked up a doozy of a bargaining chip Friday to kickstart talks with the Vancouver Fraser Port Authority.

The Whitecaps signed a letter of intent - not a lease - to move into B.C. Place Stadium for five years beginning in 2011. The stadium will be renovated before the 2010 Winter Olympics and a retractable roof installed by 2011. It could prevent Whitecaps' owner Greg Kerfoot from ever putting a shovel in the ground at his Burrard Inlet railyards.

The port authority would never have negotiated with the Whitecaps had they not believed there was something to gain. Now that the Whitecaps have an option to play elsewhere, we will soon find out whether the port authority will reconsider a three-for-one land swap that would allow the Whitecaps to return to city council for rezoning.

When asked in January whether downtown could support two stadiums, B.C. Pavilion Corporation chairman David Podmore's comeback was blunt: "Ask Greg Kerfoot." On Friday, Podmore hoped aloud that the Whitecaps would get a Major League Soccer franchise and stay in B.C. Place beyond 2016.

The sale or lease of lands surrounding B.C. Place aren't certain to pay all of Podmore's construction bills. Some trade shows will inevitably move to the PavCo-run convention centre. Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium would divert event rental, ticket, food and beverage, advertising and suite lease revenue from B.C. Place. Podmore needs new tenants, but not competitors. Whitecaps soccer in B.C. Place is vital to his business plan.

Funny how the Government only decided to announce all this after the Whitecaps signed a Letter of Intent (not a lease agreement) with BC Place.

fack! this is getting rediculous! Actually nvrm, it already is!

With the Port authority and the Feds dragging their feet, I do think the probability of a new waterfront stadium is vanishing into the distance. The new BC Place will be an outstanding facility, reducing the need for the new facility for the Whitecaps.

True. For now I don't see a huge need for the waterfront stadium since BC place is getting a huge makeover. We should get kerfoot to pay for some of the bc place renovations instead of building a new whitecaps stadium. *BIG SMILE* =D

The outdoor venue we got now: BC Place. The indoor benue we have now: GM and BC Place.

I can only shake my head in disbelief.

It's a fact that most sports facilities in North America involve taxpayer dollars. Here, we have a situation where Kerfoot is willing to underwrite a stadium without any public money that would also provide greater waterfront access and public use of what is today inaccessible railyards.

What am I missing here?

I honestly can't understand Kerfoot why hasn't taken his money -- and his team -- somewhere else.

Well this is what you have to deal with when you work with the city of Vancouver. Walmart just gave up, although they are back in the race, not against the city though.

The Whitecaps need a home though. They will not sell out BC Place for games and what thye want is a packed house which is intimate. That's how you bring in ppl.

The Whitecaps need a home though. They will not sell out BC Place for games and what thye want is a packed house which is intimate. That's how you bring in ppl.


Well it seems that some guys don't understand that and it's sad! :ohno:

^^

i'm guessing the whitecaps will block off the top section and only sell the bottom, just like the bc lions. however, the lower bowl is about 24000 and i think 5000 come see them at swangard. Toronto FC sells out every game at about 20000.

Lower Bowl holds 29,000

^^

my bad. i was thinking about Qwest in Seattle which holds 24,500.

Are we dumping all Whitecaps news in this thread?

At any rate, the WFC news announcement from Pan Pacific is at 11am today. Here is the highlights -

This is WFC's formal bid for one of the 2011 MLS expansion slots. They're confident that an MLS franchise will help speed along the process of getting Waterfront Stadium built, in the meantime they look forward to playing at refurbished BC PLace. Wally Oppal said the Province gives it's full support and now Sam Sullivan says the City "are pulling out all the stops" and is "going to make it happen".

Steve Nash is live on the phone from NYC fielding questions from the media. Pledging support for WFC financially and is committed and confident Vancouver will get a franchise. They have a singular vision to get it done. He's put in his own money that's considerable but he won't be a majority owner.

-Will he be a silent or vocal owner? He said he'll be a very vocal owner/fan.

-He said, BC Place could be the home forever but a waterfront stadium could be the best in the world. The view, etc., great for the city.

-He'll do his best to use his connections to bring over world footballers like Thierry Henry, who he knows personally.

-Is he a part of the $40m expansion fee? Everyone's financial commitment would be a part of that.

-He's been involved in the process for the past year.

-His ownership/investment starts when WFC get accepted by MLS.

Almost forgot about the announcement, thanks for updating =)

Good news? I love the quotes for the "city 'pulling out all the stops 'and is 'going to make it happen'"

This is definitely great news and will only solidify further why MLS needs to come to Vancouver.

So what do you reckon? Open a new thread in the regular BC forum titled - Whitecaps FC|Sports - for their MLS expansion news, general MLS news, and current team news, or keep all related WFC/Stadium stuff in this thread until they are granted a franchise, which would be announced in Nov?

This is definitely great news and will only solidify further why MLS needs to come to Vancouver.

So what do you reckon? Open a new thread in the regular BC forum titled - Whitecaps FC|Sports - for their MLS expansion news, general MLS news, and current team news, or keep all related WFC/Stadium stuff in this thread until they are granted a franchise, which would be announced in Nov?

You could open a thread there, and I would advise you to do so. Whitecaps | Sports would be fine. Whitecaps stadium related information should still continue here though.

Excellent! I'm going to add the FC as that's their official name. I think it's a great ideas as WFC non-stadium stuff was spread out through 3 or 4 threads.

Looks like all plans for the stadium are now garbage:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Will Kuhns, Major League Soccer, 212-450-1206, will.kuhns@mlsnet.com
Nathan Vanstone, Vancouver Whitecaps, (604) 629-2251, nvanstone@whitecapsfc.com

MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER AWARDS VANCOUVER 2011 EXPANSION TEAM
League’s 17th Team to Play in Newly-Renovated BC Place

NEW YORK (Wednesday, March 18, 2009) – Vancouver, British Columbia, will be the home of Major League Soccer’s 17th team, MLS Commissioner Don Garber announced today. The Vancouver MLS team will begin play in 2011 at the newly-renovated BC Place Stadium in the city’s downtown entertainment district. The venue will undergo approximately $365 million CDN in improvements before the new MLS team takes to the field, and will have a seamless 20,000-seat soccer-specific configuration.

The Vancouver ownership group consists of Greg Kerfoot, Steve Luczo, Jeff Mallett, and Steve Nash. Kerfoot is the owner of Vancouver Whitecaps FC and former CEO of Crystal Decisions Software. Luczo is president, CEO, and chairman of the board for Seagate Technology and part owner of the National Basketball Association’s Boston Celtics. Mallett is part owner of Major League Baseball’s San Francisco Giants and is the former president and COO of Yahoo! Nash – a guard for the NBAs Phoenix Suns – is a two-time NBA MVP, and along with Mallett, is an investor in Women’s Professional Soccer.

“We are thrilled to welcome Vancouver into Major League Soccer for the 2011 season,” Garber said. “The ownership team of Greg Kerfoot, Steve Luczo, Jeff Mallett, and Steve Nash love the game and represent a new breed of ownership group. Our new Vancouver team also provides an attractive stadium plan and a market with a rich soccer tradition.”

Tomorrow marks the start of the 2009 MLS season and the long-awaited inaugural game for Seattle Sounders FC, who are a geographic rival for Vancouver. More than 32,000 fans will witness the historic match against the New York Red Bulls at 9 p.m. EDT on ESPN2.

Vancouver will have the second MLS team in Canada following the successful launch of Toronto FC in 2007. Toronto FC has sold out every home game, capped season tickets at 16,000, and has a season-ticket waiting list of over 14,000. Vancouver also has a proven track record of supporting soccer. In November 2007, the Whitecaps United Soccer Leagues First Division team played in front of over 48,000 fans at BC Place when they hosted the Los Angeles Galaxy.

”British Columbians are excited about hosting a Major League Soccer team in a newly-renovated BC Place Stadium beginning in 2011,” said Premier Gordon Campbell. “The Vancouver Whitecaps have been a part of our province’s history for more than three decades. As an MLS team, the Whitecaps organization will carry on that incredible tradition, as well as generate economic benefits of up to $25 million each season.”

The renovations to BC Place include new seating, concessions, washrooms, hospitality areas, field surface, improved access for persons with disabilities, the redevelopment of all common spaces, and a significant reduction in the building’s energy consumption. The defining features will include the first centrally-hung electronic scoreboard and retractable roof in MLS - an engineering marvel that uses the same technology found at Commerzbank Arena in Frankfurt, Germany, which is the home of Eintracht Frankfurt of the German Bundesliga.

“This is a great win for the province of British Columbia and the city of Vancouver,” said Mallett. “Major League Soccer is North America’s premier soccer league and offers exceptional skill and entertainment. We have a world-class stadium that will be packed with cheering, singing, and chanting Vancouver supporters.”

Vancouver Whitecaps FC will continue to field a USL-1 team during the 2009 and 2010 seasons. MLS plans to announce another expansion team, its 18th, in the near future.

“The city of Vancouver and the Whitecaps have a rich and storied soccer history, which includes long-standing rivalries with Toronto and Seattle,” said Vancouver Whitecaps FC president Bob Lenarduzzi. “The successful bid for a Major League Soccer franchise offers a whole new level of opportunity for our organization, and by extension, for our city and our province.”

Five thousand $50 deposits for Vancouver Major League Soccer 2011 season tickets go on sale this Saturday, March 21, at 10 a.m. Current Whitecaps ticket holders receive priority purchase rights for 2011 season tickets.

No waterfront stadium, but who cares!
We have a major league soccer team! :banana:

^^ I think it's officially still being discussed but the Whitecaps will play out of the renovated BC Place Stadium for a few years at least.

Will be waterfront stadium after 2016?

Go whiteCaps !
http://www.a-league.com/team_images/Vancouver_Whitecaps.jpg

Let's hope there will be a Caps stadium in a few years.

As for their badge above. The Caps will be launching their new MLS brand/crest I think in late Spring, I forget the exact date. Good riddance to the cartoon one above!

Lenarduzzi has said that the shirt sponsor is now down to 5 companies. Also the name Whitecaps will stay.

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any kind of sport activity will always be good to the local economy.. hope to see their games next year. im excited to see too the new look bc place.