^^ They didn't have airplanes during the 1900s. The 2000 feet rule is not a mith. Ask congress. No building is allowed to pass that height due to air traffic safety. Are there exceptions? Haven't seen one exception yet. So the rule is not a mith, it is a rule by the FAA.

Only structures that can surpass that are TV and Radio Masts, Not buildings.

If a real estate developer and a major tenant (financial firm, tech company, etc) joined up to build a 2,000+ foot tower I bet their would be a lot of US cities that would love to have it built. It would require a rework of the air traffic routes, safety, etc. But laws can change. Your assumption is that the FAA is just going to keep the 2,000 feet limit FOREVER. Forever is a very long time.

^^

I didn't say they wont change ever but I dont see them changing anytime soon.

^^ They didn't have airplanes during the 1900s. The 2000 feet rule is not a mith. Ask congress. No building is allowed to pass that height due to air traffic safety. Are there exceptions? Haven't seen one exception yet. So the rule is not a mith, it is a rule by the FAA.

Only structures that can surpass that are TV and Radio Masts, Not buildings.

From the FAA.gov website:

"We have concluded that this objective can best be achieved by adopting the following policy : Applications for antenna towers higher than 2,000 feet above ground will be presumed to be inconsistent with the public interest, and the applicant will have a burden of overcoming that strong presumption. The applicant must accompany its application with a detailed showing directed to meeting this burden. Only in the exceptional case, where the Commission concludes that a clear and compelling showing has been made that there are public interest reasons requiring a tower higher than 2,000 feet above ground, and after the parties have complied with applicable FAA procedures, and full Commission coordination with FAA on the question of menace to air navigation, will a grant be made. Applicants and parties in interest will, of course, be afforded their statutory hearing rights."


The 2000 ft rule is NOT set in stone and may be subject to any claim supporting "the public interest". Following the 1945 crash of a military bomber into the Empire State Building, the FAA sought to limit cruising altitudes of aircraft to those higher than 2000ft. which alternately means that no buildings or structures exceeding that height could be built without FAA permission, after having demonstrated a value to the "public interest". This means that few if any structures of any sort would ever be approved by the FAA unless the airlines and other flying interests could be convinced to raise their 'floor of operations', something they defend tooth and nail, especially in cities like New York.

^^ Nice find desertpunk. I think any mayor of a US city offered the prospects of someone building a 2,000+ foot tower would find a way to make a convincing case to the FAA to allow its construction. The height is one thing, but a massive tower like that is worth billions in labor and materials.

^^ Nice find desertpunk. I think any mayor of a US city offered the prospects of someone building a 2,000+ foot tower would find a way to make a convincing case to the FAA to allow its construction. The height is one thing, but a massive tower like that is worth billions in labor and materials.

I agree. There is a strong economic development argument to be made in favor of building supertalls and megatalls. Unlike the 1950s, aircraft are much better equipped with warning devices that prevent catrastrophic accidents. That's why so many other countries are less concerned about exceeding 2000 ft. I think a 300 ft. structure situated near a flight path would be more dangerous than a 2500 ft tower miles from any airport or major flight path.

get your trolling ass out of this forum and into a history book :bash::bash:

just a mention of Dubai and you guys flip:poke::ohno:

just a mention of Dubai and you guys flip:poke::ohno:

i don't blame them, we're all sick of people droning on about dubai.

The only time I see planes flying 2,000 feet around downtown Chicago is during the air shows, so it shouldn't be too hard to apply for an exemption if needed.

The top 600 feet of the Burj Dubai is just a spire isn't it? Why not make the habitable part of Chicago Spire 1,200 feet, give it a 800 foot spire consistent with the overall form, and then put a 1,000 foot needle on top of it to make it 3,000 feet. It would be much cheaper to build and the world's tallest building! :bowtie:

it'll look something like this :bash:
http://www.willisms.com/archives/spire.gif

The current design is much better, I don't care that it's "only" 600m high

No, it would look like this. (For fun/scale, a Burj Dubai clone to replace that black thing near the water)
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/107/61695456.png
At least its not as ugly as John Hancock!

^^ I thought you people hated when somebody spoke about Dubai in this thread. :lol: Chicago Spire can only dream of becoming as tall as the Burj Dubai. Chicago spire cheats too much with that long antenna. Nice looking building though.

The only time I see planes flying 2,000 feet around downtown Chicago is during the air shows, so it shouldn't be too hard to apply for an exemption if needed.

The top 600 feet of the Burj Dubai is just a spire isn't it? Why not make the habitable part of Chicago Spire 1,200 feet, give it a 800 foot spire consistent with the overall form, and then put a 1,000 foot needle on top of it to make it 3,000 feet. It would be much cheaper to build and the world's tallest building! :bowtie:

The top part of Burj Dubai is a steel structure that still counts as part of the structure and till has offices ect. Chicago Spire as the name suggests is a spire on top that has no purpose but to get to 610m. lol

Unlike most, I honestly don't like the look of Burj Dubai, the Chicago Spire is a true work of art! I think that if top part is not habitable than it counts as the spire. The spire on top of Trump is part of the structure for example.

Unlike most, I honestly don't like the look of Burj Dubai, the Chicago Spire is a true work of art! I think that if top part is not habitable than it counts as the spire. The spire on top of Trump is part of the structure for example.

Let me have a guess, you dont like it because it is not built in the US. I am from the US and I still love the architecture of Dubai. Maybe if you stop listening to our corrupt media and actually go there and live there and see the buildings you would hcnage your mind. A picture doesn't capture the beauty of a building. In chicago the architecture of the "tall" buildings is all from the 20th century with the exception of Trump which has a resemblance of the Burj. I suggest you go to Dubai and your opinion might change. As far as Chicago spire.. it looks out of proportion with that long spire on top. Infinity Tower in Dubai is around 310 metres and rotates to the top and looks way better IMO.

^^ I thought you people hated when somebody spoke about Dubai in this thread. :lol: Chicago Spire can only dream of becoming as tall as the Burj Dubai. Chicago spire cheats too much with that long antenna. Nice looking building though.



The top part of Burj Dubai is a steel structure that still counts as part of the structure and till has offices ect. Chicago Spire as the name suggests is a spire on top that has no purpose but to get to 610m. lol


do you know what the current design looks like?

^^ As far as I remember they removed the spire. So it was only the building left. Correct me if I am wrong.

that's right, no spire on "the spire" hehe

^^

:lol: I disliked the spire on "the spire" anyways.

Let me have a guess

Let me have a guess, you have no taste? I do not like Las-Vegas style architecture, sloppy cities where I need a car to get around, or the desert for that matter.

I can't think of any building designs that do not at least have some bilateral symmetry that I like outside of the Chicago Spire. Also I hate the set-back look of the Sears tower and Burj Dubai (and about half of Manhattan as a result.) Set-backs are done to reduce cost, complexity, and shadows, not because they look good! (The tripod shape also reduces cost and complexity because it is easier to build than a tall box/cylinder etc.)

Let me have a guess, you have no taste? I do not like Las-Vegas style architecture, sloppy cities where I need a car to get around, or the desert for that matter.

I can't think of any building designs that do not at least have some bilateral symmetry that I like outside of the Chicago Spire. Also I hate the set-back look of the Sears tower and Burj Dubai (and about half of Manhattan as a result.) Set-backs are done to reduce cost, complexity, and shadows, not because they look good! (The tripod shape also reduces cost and complexity because it is easier to build than a tall box/cylinder etc.)

Actually the tripod has never been done before to my knowledge and is made for greater stability and the ability to go higher, not because of costs. "Set-backs" do reduce cost but it suites Burj Dubai. It doesnt suit Sears Tower because it was built in the 20th century and it doesnt look as elegant as Burj Dubai.

I can not believe you claim to have taste and like tall boxes or cylinders which are so common that it makes you want to puke. I for one disliked the old WTC towers because they looked like cement rods that had no beauty what so ever. The tripod shape is unique and gives the building more resistance towards wing. As a matter of fact the Burj Dubai reduces much more wind by tricking it than Chicago Spire. You can check with the wind tunnel experts on that.

This smells like...........

Going offtopic again? Keep it nice, friendly and on topic please.

I do not like the former WTC either (I meant box as a general shape.) The CN Tower is a tripod (not a building, but still very tall) and the canceled Russia Tower was much taller and more massive. In the 80's there was a WTC Chicago proposal that was basically a 2,300 foot box, so boxes can probably go very high if someone has the money to do it, it would be a tough engineering challenge but it might be practical in a densely built city, if there was extreme demand for floor area. Like you said, wind-resistance is a problem for buildings that are still thick/angular at 300 meters and up.

Generally, a tripod is the easiest shape to build tall/stable (nobody has made a quadripod for cameras) but not space efficient - the Burj Dubai has a similar floor area to the Sears Tower, which is half as tall - and a pyramid is the easiest to build large/tall, that is why there are many pyramid monuments in the Americas and Middle East.

The nasty Ryuyong Hotel in north korea is a big ugly tripod... tripod/3 wing monstrosities have definitely been built before. They are not space efficient at the base. If you want a city to be efficient, comfortable, walkable, and livable then the base of the building can't be 5 city blocks... and triangle shaped. Great cities have buildings that are very close to the streets/sidewalks so that pedestrians have easy access. I know I don't want to walk the minimum 2 miles through the desert to get from the front door of the closest building to the front door of Burj Khalifa. (I have been to Las Vegas... we have done that here... its no so great.) Chicago is great because you can walk to work, to the park, to dinner... The Spire will be in a dense area and will be walking distance from many great areas. I want to get out and explore, not live my life in a stationary commercialized vertical cruise ship [Burj Khalifa].

It doesnt suit Sears Tower because it was built in the 20th century and it doesnt look as elegant as Burj Dubai.


sad but true. i'm not a big fan of the willi's tower


I for one disliked the old WTC towers because they looked like cement rods that had no beauty what so ever


couldn't disagree more on this one, hehe.



beautifull arches
http://z.about.com/d/manhattan/1/0/-/F/flickr-JoeMargolis-wtc-lobby-yr1978.jpg

the golden towers
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/42/75950181_b5954f0282.jpg

very nice sunset on wtc
http://thumb13.webshots.net/s/thumb2/3/19/94/22831994ptNKIvfpJg_th.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1022831994014775913ptNKIvfpJg)

You are beautiful no matter what they say
Words can't bring you down
You are beautiful in every single way
http://redstatepatriot.com/WTC.jpg

so back to topic
maybe we all agree that the spire is nice looking tower

No, it would look like this. (For fun/scale, a Burj Dubai clone to replace that black thing near the water)
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/107/61695456.png
At least its not as ugly as John Hancock!

Looks like a giant narwhal.

My high school drafting teacher would be proud of the point on that pencil.

What height limitation?

http://www.no-games.com/images/chicagovsburj.jpg

hehe, nice one kelt, it's a stupid limitation anyway, airplanes follow standard arrival\departure patterns, and they have charts with minimum safe altitude. So wether a tower is 600m or 1000m can't make much a difference

The Trump tower was supposed to be the tallest in the world. They still can expand it if they want, as you can see in my professional rendering:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6122/image3zu.png
Only 1 mile (1,600 meters), but as new technologies develop, they can expand it to 10 miles.

From above
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S0_U8M2s9NI/AAAAAAABenY/S-tRTq0Bmyg/s800/P1640695.JPG
higer res 2007 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli) - 2008 Q1 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli2008q1) - 2008 Q2 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q2) - 2008 Q3 & 4 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q3) - 2009 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2009#)

Bridge work continues
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S0_UzlGi-xI/AAAAAAABenA/7ni8YGk8zSQ/s800/P1640685.JPG

Ice on the slip
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S0_U0aCxFII/AAAAAAABenI/rAoKfsH_V3w/s800/P1640699.JPG


http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S0_U1giiPjI/AAAAAAABenQ/z93w9ehuAa4/s800/P1640707_8_9.jpg

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thanks again for the pictures harry. realy alot of ice in the hole now, must be a record.

btw, that lakeshore drive isn't very pretty, is there any plans to put it in a tunnel or something?

Lol guys, face it we won't have the world's tallest for a long time. I mean it takes us ages to build a skyscraper at ground zero which isnt high at all and you are talking about tallest? Wake up this isn't the 20th century anymore. Although it would be nice, I highly doubt it. We already have enough tall skyscrapers.

I like people who dream and have visions but sometime stupid reality sets in. :lol: Besides with the current pace at least 5 years to go through the red tape of it. 5 more for the foundations. and 6-10 years after that for it to be completed given there is no disaster or financial crisis. Be happy with what we already have. ;)

well burj kalifa was ridiculously expensive, and that's when they use "slave" labour working 12hour shifts. building taller will be even more expensive. perhaps china could do it.

^^

I don't think they are slaves. A slave is somobody who was taken away and made to work without pay. I mean we did it against people's wish. So to call people who come on their own and get paid (yes I know it is low wage but still paid) more than they would get in their own country isn't exactly slavery.

Yes they should be treated better and have more rights, but to call them slaves isn't describing the situation. Washington DC on the other hand was built by slaves. Dubai was built by courageous men who are willing to put up with around $2 a day so they can send home. I am not sure that defines slavery. Cheap labour... yes. Slavery... not quite.

Correct me if am wrong.

thanks again for the pictures harry. realy alot of ice in the hole now, must be a record.

btw, that lakeshore drive isn't very pretty, is there any plans to put it in a tunnel or something?
Actually it looks much better in most places that it does here. Most of the way it is at grade instead of elevated its only elevated here because of the bridge. There is certainly no plans to put it in a tunnel, after the disaster with the "Big Dig" in Boston I don't see anything like that will ever be done again. :ohno:

Actually it looks much better in most places that it does here. Most of the way it is at grade instead of elevated its only elevated here because of the bridge. There is certainly no plans to put it in a tunnel, after the disaster with the "Big Dig" in Boston I don't see anything like that will ever be done again. :ohno:

Big Dig disaster didn't stop Seattle at all. Seattle is going to have "Little Dig" to replace Alaskan Viaduct (elevated highway on Seattle waterfront).Construction expected to begin next year and be completed in around 2015. I heard Portland, Oregon is considering to do "Big Dig" to bury all downtown freeways as well. I think Chicago might consider that someday. Who knows?

Actually it looks much better in most places that it does here. Most of the way it is at grade instead of elevated its only elevated here because of the bridge. There is certainly no plans to put it in a tunnel, after the disaster with the "Big Dig" in Boston I don't see anything like that will ever be done again. :ohno:

The worst issue with The Big Dig was the subterranean water that seeped into everything and drove constuction costs to astronomical levels. Chicago has the same problem. There are numerous tunnels beneath the Loop and serious flooding has ocurred. To do a Big Dig so close to that mess would be foolish. Seattle has seismic issues as does Portland, to go with the nearby water. They went with the best political option, not the best engineering one.

^^ Washington DC on the other hand was built by slaves. Dubai was built by courageous men who are willing to put up with around $2 a day so they can send home. I am not sure that defines slavery. Cheap labour... yes. Slavery... not quite.
Correct me if am wrong.
Parts of DC were built by slaves including the WH and Capitol. However in 1865 the population was around 75k where later at its peak it was near 800k so clearly most of the city was not built by slavery.

I would say indentured servitude qualifies for Dubai. Many owed a nearly a years wages for the processing and tickets just to get them to Dubai. Then when there many had paychecks and passports withheld, salary terms decreased, and put in awful work/housing conditions. Anyway, this isn't about that building so talk should continue on about the CS.

The worst issue with The Big Dig was the subterranean water that seeped into everything and drove constuction costs to astronomical levels. Chicago has the same problem. There are numerous tunnels beneath the Loop and serious flooding has ocurred. To do a Big Dig so close to that mess would be foolish. Seattle has seismic issues as does Portland, to go with the nearby water. They went with the best political option, not the best engineering one.
Other problems included poor supervision of the construction, corruption that allowed contractors to use inferior materials to increase their profit margin and politicians and union officials who were always bickering. The biggest problem with any project of the scope is control and that was totally lost in the case of Boston. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like Portland and or Seattle look at the engineering aspects carefully, just the geopolitical ones.

Debating the beauty or non-beauty of the WTC, photoshop thought experiments in hypertall height, labour situations in Dubai and during the construction of Washington DC, Boston's Big Dig and similar projects in Seattle and Portland, gotta love how this page covers pretty much every topic except the Chicago Spire...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/Lake_Shore_Drive.JPG

this is the old picture of the site from wikipedia, taken in '63. I realy don't recignize the place. where would the hole be in this picture, is it in the left on that "peninsula" in the background?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/Lake_Shore_Drive.JPG

this is the old picture of the site from wikipedia, taken in '63. I realy don't recignize the place. where would the hole be in this picture, is it in the left on that "peninsula" in the background?

Approximately here - thanks for the photo - brings back memories - the billboard was a wild climb

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S1pV5iXJU3I/AAAAAAABfMA/BMPubEDmkiQ/CS-Site_1963.JPG

Another view - 1937
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S1pW8PFaZ_I/AAAAAAABfMk/4cMBI4uZrDI/JJC_spirelocation1937.jpg

and 1941
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S1pX9u300aI/AAAAAAABfNQ/WENgmmo_KpM/s720/Wiki_Lake_Shore_Drive_1941.jpg

It is amazing to see how much that part of downtown Chicago changed since then.

what I thought was trucks and stuff parked down at the bottom of the '63 picture is actually lot's of railway cars :) (didn't see it 'cus of the low resolution picture). The area have change dramatically since then marinas, skyscapers and stuff, we even have a big hole :lol:

It is amazing to see how much that part of downtown Chicago changed since then.

Definitely for the better! :cheers:

still lets build the darn thing

still lets build the darn thing

:banana:lets get yhis off the ground

well someone need to borrow that kelleher guy some money. If I only had a few hundred million in the bank I might offer him good intrest rates on a loan hehe. We've been staring down this hole for two years now I realy realy want this thing to get build.

There's been so little news from the developers(no news from anyone realy), and I'm asking myself if no news is good news? or if that just means that this project is slowly dying...

There's been so little news from the developers(no news from anyone realy), and I'm asking myself if no news is good news? or if that just means that this project is slowly dying...

I would think no news is good news, people have been saying the project is slowly dieing for 2 years now. So, you know...you would think it would have died by now. I feel this time next year we will still be here with a hole in the ground and not much news. But I assume once the market recovers they probably will build it.

build it.

Definitely for the better! :cheers:

Yes. Only one thing it will get much better when Chicago Spire becomes reality! Still keeping my fingers crossed for this one.

How much money, per month, does it cost to 'let it sit' Vs. interest on a loan (at today's ridiculously low rates) for the construction?

From above
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S2JRftE4DHI/AAAAAAABfY0/686WGqbxhK0/s800/P1650478.JPG
higer res 2007 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli) - 2008 Q1 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli2008q1) - 2008 Q2 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q2) - 2008 Q3 & 4 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q3) - 2009 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2009#)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S2JRK1a7rRI/AAAAAAABfZc/9ZgYHNo7Nh4/s800/P1650462.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S2JRMh0zCwI/AAAAAAABfYU/fF8QDWFCD7Y/s800/P1650481.JPG

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Let's keep our fingers crossed that the detailing remains the same as this:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1039/csupua5.jpg
I just noticed, this is like an inverted bay window!

^^me too:)

It would still work, because you would just view the east from western side of the apartment instead of the eastern side, etc.

SU,SFU:bash:

If you had the money, where in the spire would you buy a condo? personally I feel that only the 4 bedroom condo has a big enough living room, so I'll go for that one. it's high up too :). i would like one with a south east view i think...

where in the tower would you like to live? in what direction would you like to have the condo(north/south view)?

If you had the money, where in the spire would you buy a condo? personally I feel that only the 4 bedroom condo has a big enough living room, so I'll go for that one. it's high up too :). i would like one with a south east view i think...

where in the tower would you like to live? in what direction would you like to have the condo(north/south view)?

The sweet spot is in the 80s and 90s. low enough to engage the city vibe but high enough to piss on some millionaires!

didn't think of that. also this tower is so high you might get some low cloud cover spoling the view on the upper floors

I can't stand the location, so I would get something in Trump Tower instead! The floor plans remind me of Marina City. It is like a modern version of it, but with one building instead of two!

"Spire affiliate reports big loss linked to stalled tower
By Eddie Baeb and Thomas A. Corfman, Feb. 03, 2010

Crain's) — A Dublin-based affiliate of Chicago Spire developer Garrett Kelleher reported a $207.6-million annual loss, much of which is attributed to the stalled Spire project.

Clarinabbey Ltd. says in an annual financial report filed last week in Ireland that the company took a loss provision against loans made to other companies led by Mr. Kelleher – including one that’s been a major financing vehicle for the Spire. Clarinabbey says the provision stems from “uncertainty associated with the recoverability of amounts owed by group companies.”

Financial results were reported in Euros and converted to U.S. dollars.

The Spire project, a twisting, 1,194-unit condominium tower at 400 N. Lake Shore Drive that would have been the tallest building in the United States, may account for at least $135 million of the $197.7-million loss provision, based on a previous filing by Shelbourne Finance Ltd., which is the entity pegged to the provision in Clarinabbey’s filing. "



the rest of the article is below,

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=36979

I guess he regrets starting constrution before he got financing now. And the recovery has been going on for a while now, those damn bank should lend some money

From above
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S3WEbkqqXsI/AAAAAAABfic/I4j9daDF0fM/s800/P1660188_6_7.jpg
higer res 2007 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli) - 2008 Q1 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli2008q1) - 2008 Q2 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q2) - 2008 Q3 & 4 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q3) - 2009 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2009#)

Progress frozen
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S3WEZO2989I/AAAAAAABfiU/udx-fOF5k7Q/s800/P1660194_2_3.jpg

nice blanket of snow on the site
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S3WEXGmAxxI/AAAAAAABfiE/rgnutbhidNQ/s800/P1660161_59_60.jpg

on the park
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S3WEXyU0c_I/AAAAAAABfiM/lKDU1dMA4nI/s800/P1660210_1_2.jpg

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http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=434232&page=203

FROM FEBRUARY 2008

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=434232&page=353

FROM FEBRUARY 2009

Lots more ice last year...

Okay so outdated questions but...

1) What is the purpose of that rounded hole? Where the crane will go? Cuz if it's the core (elevators, etc.), wouldn't it be a squared/rectangular shape? What are the "rings" for?

2) Is there underground parking to be included?

3) Where is that off-ramp going to? Is it just for this building?

Okay so outdated questions but...

1) What is the purpose of that rounded hole? Where the crane will go? Cuz if it's the core (elevators, etc.), wouldn't it be a squared/rectangular shape? What are the "rings" for?

2) Is there underground parking to be included?

3) Where is that off-ramp going to? Is it just for this building?

1) The rounded hole allows the coffer dam to be built without cross bracing (as shown here at WaterView )
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/Rjc85oPYokI/AAAAAAAABzA/eCebxJQcDUc/s720/2007_04-25-auto.JPG
The rings are bracing that holds the coffer dam (metal wall) up against the pressure of the surrounding soil. The core of this building will be round - Same technique was used for OMPW - with a square core in the round hole.


2) Underground parking - 7 floors - the wall for the garage is in place surrounding the entire site down to 70'+

3) The off ramp (and the on ramp on the other side) are solely for the Spire - they will not be connected to East North Water.

Just a question, what is the circumference of that circle in meters? I'm designing a paper model so at least we can have a chicago spire on our desks:)

Some people said it looked like a dildo, they're wrong. It looks like a joint to me.

Haha imagine if chicago gets the 2020 games and this is already built and the torch was placed on top, that would be one mega joint:)

^^ That would be awesome! :)

Some people said it looked like a dildo, they're wrong. It looks like a joint to me.

omfg...lol so true

:lol::lol:

From above
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S32RLutX9PI/AAAAAAABf5Y/2W-HO9F1SAw/s800/P1660742_0_1.jpg
higer res 2007 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli) - 2008 Q1 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli2008q1) - 2008 Q2 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q2) - 2008 Q3 & 4 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q3) - 2009 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2009#)

Locked up tight
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S32RGBWiJVI/AAAAAAABf5I/vBCtZnoR33s/s800/P1660736.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S32RJNO2W3I/AAAAAAABf5Q/pvH4ssIaQOw/s800/P1660752_3_4.jpg


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I wonder why the topic of this building keeps getting on top of the topics list while never been able to show anything new. It's been the same hole in the ground for months now, and the last 50 pictures of it are exactly the same but in different weather conditions...

oh, its just a beginning. In fact, I hope to see some pics with trees rising out of the hole :lol:

Just a quick question: How long can they wait with the foundation before they have to rebuild it from weather damage?

Just a quick question: How long can they wait with the foundation before they have to rebuild it from weather damage?
Every thing visible is actually not part of the building or its foundations. All of the cassions that will support it are completed but are buried and not exposed the elements. The only concern would be of the sheet pillings for the core deteriorated to the point it would not be safe to work if the hole while constructing the core.

I wonder why they didn't roof it over to protect it? Maybe they didn't have enough cash left to even do that.

^^it wouldn't do anything for it, like the post above you its just the barrier to keep the ground from caving in

I wonder why they didn't roof it over to protect it? Maybe they didn't have enough cash left to even do that.

Hahaha dude u literally made me lol! Good one !!!

Perhaps Kelleher could deed the site to the city and take a tax write-off. The land would nearly double the size of a future DuSable Park. The hole could be the basis of a nice water fountain feature, or a fitting memorial to the 2008 financial collapse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpvkgHPLeHE&feature=related

come on kelleher build it.

I think it's time to recognize the Chicago Spire is dead. Rarely does anyone call a press conference to definitively end this type of project; they just slowly wither away over the course of a couple years until the failure is simply recognized by general concensus.

There wasn't any formal announcement regarding Waterview, but we know that one is dead. Why should we wait until Kelleher loses the land and returns the buyers' deposits? That could take years. Clearly this project is not going to go forward as planned. At the very least, it will have to be significantly altered and down-scaled to take the new economic realities into account.

Please close the thread or relocate it to the dead proposals section so Chicago can put this embarrassing failure behind it!

Please close the thread or relocate it to the dead proposals section so Chicago can put this embarrassing failure behind it!
I have a much better idea. Those who want it to be dead can quit reading it! The rest of us who still have hope for it can keep watching and anticipating. That way everyone is happy! :bash:

This tower will be cancelled ! So much time to have news about it... She will never see the light of Day.

I have a much better idea. Those who want it to be dead can quit reading it! The rest of us who still have hope for it can keep watching and anticipating. That way everyone is happy! :bash:

:okay:

They have already approved this project?

of course it's approved...it even was U/C for arround 1 year ^^

I wonder why they didn't roof it over to protect it? Maybe they didn't have enough cash left to even do that.

Harryc Probably asked them not to, so he could make pictures of it.

More than one year, because they stop it before winter, they said it was because of the season... Near November so it was abandonned since half and on year now.

More than one year, because they stop it before winter, they said it was because of the season... Near November so it was abandonned since half and on year now.

My skepticism with the Chicago Spire, version D (I correctly called the original 120 story Calatrava design with the spire economically unfeasible) started in June of 2008 when the developers announced that "there will be a lull, then activity". On that "other" skyscraper page, I was the only one raising concerns that Kelleher had not announced a contractor for the next phase as Case was wrapping up its foundation work.

When I pointed out the curious slackening in activity during a warm, construction-friendly Chicago summer, the pollyannas explained that the lull was due to ComEd upgrading facilities just off-site. When Case was removing their equipment and levelling the site in July of 2008, these people took it as a sign that the concrete pour for the plaza level was imminent. This despite no funding announcement had been made and no general contractor had been hired.

At the end of the summer of 2008, Kelleher erected tents and held a "foundation signing party". This was seen as evidence that construction was about to take off. I saw it as yet another sign of trouble -- a desperate attempt to make it look as if something was going on to distract from the plummetting prospects.

In Septemeber 2008, there was a distressing trial balloon floated out by Kelleher that a portion of the project might possibly become rental units. I correctly saw this as a clear signal that the sales prospects, in the midst of a deep recession and near banking system collapse, were close to exhausted at 30% -- far too little to secure construction loans even in a boom period.

The next red flag was in October of 2008, when a semi-permanent fence was erected around the hole. I correctly saw this as a clear signal that the site was soon to be abandoned for a lengthy delay. Pollyannas pointed to the $40 million sale of the penthouse to the Beany Baby king which took place nearly the same day as "evidence" there was no trouble. Finally, in late October, the inevitable. Kelleher's spokes-hack was forced to announce a long term delay.

Throughout 2009, the Olympics were touted as the saving boost to the tower's prospects. When the "unthinkable" happened and Chicago's bid ended in dismal failure, Kelleher's spokes-hack was again forced to issue a nebulously-worded statement, claiming that the Olympics loss had no impact on the project's viability and that Kelleher would announce plans "soon".

The final straw for me was the desperate attempt to secure funding from union pension sources. I believed this was the last hope and in a spasm of enthusiam, I became uncharacteristically hopeful. Obviously, that last desperate hope failed.

I think if we take a look at this long litany of delay and obfuscation, there is absolutely no reason to keep this thread in the proposal section. The project is dead, whether or not we wish to accept it. There is no reason it can't be revived later with a brand new thread should a miracle occur.

(I correctly called the original 120 story Calatrava design with the spire economically unfeasible)

I was the only one raising concerns that Kelleher had not announced a contractor for the next phase..

When I pointed out the curious slackening in activity during a warm, construction-friendly Chicago summer..

I saw it as yet another sign of trouble..

I correctly saw this as a clear signal that the sales prospects..

I correctly saw this as a clear signal that the site was soon to be abandoned for a lengthy delay..

The final straw for me was the desperate attempt to secure funding from union pension sources..


I understand that you want to point out that you were right, but once is always enough ;)

...like the other poster said, don't bother reading the thread any longer. Then it won't bother you! Not that I think anything's going to happen anytime soon. But we are all curious as to what's going to happen to the site in the end.

Just keep in mind somebody linving in Chicago and who is observing this tower's progress can speak and tell us what ti is going on on this site. Thank you, DFDalton, are you a Chcago unhabitant ? You've given us so much information about the progress and the firm which was supposed to build Chcago Spire. I would expect they build it but we have to be realist... Any updates to confirm that ? A photo to know how is the hole now ? And news about the contractor firm which was about to build it ?

I don't really keep up with progress of the tower but I know that there are several listings for Spire condominiums that are current as of today.

hey i wouldnt call this dead there was a 300 meter tower tower they started building and then stopped and th hen started and finished 13 yrs later

From above
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S6O6-Etb6DI/AAAAAAABgQw/aeAHKMHSU9A/s800/P1680116.JPG
higer res 2007 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli) - 2008 Q1 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli2008q1) - 2008 Q2 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q2) - 2008 Q3 & 4 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q3) - 2009 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2009#) - 2010 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDHeli2010#)

Thistle and Rebar
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S6O65rz3ZaI/AAAAAAABgQo/6Oy4EMmg-j8/s800/P1680114.JPG

Holding back the mud
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S6O61iAIP-I/AAAAAAABgQc/qPgcp72H1fw/s800/P1680120.JPG


Panasonic DMZ TZ4 (http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/compact/tz5_tz4_tz15_tz11/index.html) - Picasa (http://picasaweb.google.com/) - Autostitch (http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~mbrown/autostitch/autostitch.html) - Photomatix HDR (http://www.hdrsoft.com/)

some of the tracks on the site doesn't look so old(I must be desperate to see any sign of progress LOL)

btw, has anyone heard any recent spire news?

double

^^Is it hard for you to stop posting unnecessary pictures on most threads? And read back all the 405 pages before asking. That'll give you a clue.

Not sure how this plays into the Chicago Spire's prospects. But it can't in any way be considered good news. Could this potentially be the final nail in the coffin?:


DUBLIN — The former chairman of Anglo Irish Bank Corp. was arrested Thursday on suspicion of committing fraud after he hid more than euro70 million ($100 million) in personal loans from shareholders.

Police said they arrested Sean FitzPatrick, 61, at his home in affluent Greystones, south of Dublin, at sunrise and seized his financial records during a search.

An arrest of FitzPatrick – one of Ireland's most high-profile businessmen during the lost Celtic Tiger boom – had been expected ever since police raided the Anglo Irish headquarters in April 2009 shortly after the bank's emergency nationalization to prevent its collapse.

Government-appointed investigators have already found that FitzPatrick hid from shareholders the existence of his massive, mounting personal loans for eight years.

Last week the new government-appointed leaders of Anglo filed a lawsuit against FitzPatrick seeking immediate repayment of euro70.4 million ($96.3 million) in loans. Most of those borrowings are secured only against the now-worthless stock of Anglo.

FitzPatrick, who served as Anglo's chief executive from 1986 to 2005 and thereafter as chairman, transferred tens of millions' worth of loans each year into the accounts of another bank, Irish Nationwide, days before Anglo published its annual accounts to shareholders. The loans would be transferred back into Anglo's private books immediately afterward.

This accounting sleight of hand was detected when outside investigators began examining Anglo's debt portfolios as part of an October 2008 government decision to insure all the deposits and debt obligations of Irish banks. FitzPatrick resigned in December 2008.

FitzPatrick became the first member of Ireland's so-called "golden circle" of elite businessmen to be arrested in the spectacular fallout from Ireland's collapsed property market. Many in the circle were personal friends of FitzPatrick who benefited from ill-secured multi-million loans from Anglo, a specialist lender to Irish businesses, particularly developers and property speculators.

Finance Minister Brian Lenihan, who has pumped euro4 billion into Anglo to keep it afloat, welcomed news of Thursday's arrest. Lenihan said he was "eager to see justice take its course."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/18/sean-fitzpatrick-top-iris_n_503829.html

some of the tracks on the site doesn't look so old(I must be desperate to see any sign of progress LOL)

btw, has anyone heard any recent spire news?

Most of the current traffic is for work on the Lake Shore Drive draw bridge - the North end sits on the South East corner of the site (upper Left of my overview shots), including the control room.

at the controls
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/Sf3aYNTmIUI/AAAAAAABLNY/9DUvFi7nRhs/s720/P1350013.JPG

I'm curious too why this thread is "On Hold". as far as I thought, the deal is 100% dead.

^^There's no evidence that the project is accurately dead yet. It could be on hold for as longer as the SWFC.

My feelings are bad for this tower. So many projects in Chicago has been cancelled during 1980's-1990's. And so supertall were cancelled for ever. So I don't feel it gonnasee the light of day. Like Waterview Tower.

^^There's no evidence that the project is accurately dead yet. It could be on hold for as longer as the SWFC.

is this a serious statement? NO EVIDENCE? how about no lender? how bout B of A lawsuits? how about architect lawsuit? how about Anglo Irish Bank being nationalized?

show me one piece of evidence that this building actually has a chance.

^^OK, forget it and chill. :bash: I know there's been a lawsuit, and all other shits going on, but we haven't got a word from Kelleher, since the failed deal, if the project would be cancelled. But looking back at most issues, including legal issues, the project could be one of Chicago's never built skyscrapers.

No evidence for cancellation but no evidence for future construction. So ON HOLD is the best answer.

^^Pretty much correct there

any news still excited for this one

no, for more than a year actually




p.s. but, dispite that im sure someone will post some photo update soon

From above
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S6O6-Etb6DI/AAAAAAABgQw/aeAHKMHSU9A/s800/P1680116.JPG
higer res 2007 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli) - 2008 Q1 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli2008q1) - 2008 Q2 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q2) - 2008 Q3 & 4 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q3) - 2009 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2009#) - 2010 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDHeli2010#)

Thistle and Rebar
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S6O65rz3ZaI/AAAAAAABgQo/6Oy4EMmg-j8/s800/P1680114.JPG

Holding back the mud
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S6O61iAIP-I/AAAAAAABgQc/qPgcp72H1fw/s800/P1680120.JPG


Panasonic DMZ TZ4 (http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/compact/tz5_tz4_tz15_tz11/index.html) - Picasa (http://picasaweb.google.com/) - Autostitch (http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~mbrown/autostitch/autostitch.html) - Photomatix HDR (http://www.hdrsoft.com/)

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr203/gsgcharles/54574_1270642198.jpg

See the different between two hole :lol::lol::lol:

Hey Harryc, don't you think if it would be cancelled, they are going to fill the hole up with something? Or are they leaving it like this forever?

grts

They won't close it bc now it's a monument, a metaphorical bottomless well in which a lot
of people have been throwing their money lately. As a memorial for the financial crisis... :nuts:

you can fill it with water and make a fountain and a park around it, maybe more people will throw money in there :D

lol a fountain, in a sunken, hidden away alotment that you can't even see whilst driving past lakeshore drive :D

Auditors for Spire developer Kelleher raise funding questions
By Thomas A. Corfman, April 12, 2010

(Crain’s) — In another sign of woe for Chicago Spire developer Garrett Kelleher, auditors have raised concerns about “the ongoing funding” of his Shelbourne Property Group, according to a financial report filed last week by the Dublin-based company.

Accounting firm KPMG warned that additional write-downs to the company’s financials could be required if it is unable to recover loans to related companies that total 35 million euros, or $47.5 million, or obtain “adequate funding facilities,” according to a report filed April 6 with Ireland’s Companies Registration Office.

KPMG did not question Shelbourne Property’s ability to remain a “going concern.”

Shelbourne Property Group is in “technical default” on loans held by a group of banks, including Anglo Irish Bank Corp., the lender on the riverfront site of the proposed 150-story tower, according to a report filed the same day by Shelbourne Finance Ltd., a subsidiary of the Group.

The dollar amount of the loans in default was not disclosed by either company.

In 2006, Anglo Irish financed Mr. Kelleher’s $64-million purchase of the Spire site, on the north bank of the Chicago River just west of Lake Shore Drive, with a loan in an amount that has not been disclosed.

In February, another Shelbourne-related company reported that the Group was in technical default on loan-to-value and interest-coverage covenants with its lenders, a group that also includes Royal Bank of Scotland PLC and Bank of Scotland (Ireland) Ltd.

Shelbourne Finance said the Group has an “excellent relationship” with its banks, and has already negotiated some restructuring and standstill agreements.

Shelbourne Finance has previously lent 89.1 million euros, or $121 million to the partnership that owns the site at 400 N. Lake Shore Drive, the company said in its filing. Shelbourne Finance set aside 68% against a possible loss on the loans, the company says.

The company recorded a loss of 63.9 million euros ($86.8 million) for the 12 months ending March 31, 2009, the most recent year available, according to the April 6 filing. During the 2008 fiscal year, the company had a profit of 2.6 million euros, or $3.5 million.

In the year ending March 31, 2009, the company had assets of about 191 million euros, or $259.4 million, against liabilities of 256 million euros, or $347.7 million.

The filings were reported on Sunday by the Ireland’s Sunday Business Post and Sunday Times.


http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=37787

the bad news never stop comming :-(

From above
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S8dUakJ8txI/AAAAAAABhXQ/e9eMDO-EbEo/s800/P1690121.JPG

higher res 2007 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli) - 2008 Q1 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli2008q1) - 2008 Q2 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q2) - 2008 Q3 & 4 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2008q3) - 2009 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDCSHeli_2009#) - 2010 series (http://picasaweb.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/400NLSDHeli2010#)

At the Chicago Architecture Foundation.
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S8dUT7LY6YI/AAAAAAABhWk/597EsvIoKGU/s800/P1670852.JPG

Spring is here
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S8dUWhgz8FI/AAAAAAABhWs/4yN7Yr8iIpk/s912/P1690119.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S8dUZnm_TXI/AAAAAAABhXE/2waQYxO4sCg/s912/P1690141_39_40.jpg

Along the Odgen slip
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S8dUXKfjWSI/AAAAAAABhW0/sFj-G7uaBiI/s720/P1690128.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8TC_VUmf9Fw/S8dUYUV2pfI/AAAAAAABhW8/LcGKB5ktMAE/s800/P1690129.JPG


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the bad news never stop comming :-(



It's pretty much over. Sadly, the visionary architecture in America is usually championed by the underfinanced, undercapitalized dreamers. If this was 30 stories of cheap bulk office space in a tedious box, the bankers would be lined down the block to finance it. :(

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr203/gsgcharles/54574_1270642198.jpg

See the different between two hole :lol::lol::lol:

...and what's the big hole for?

Steel still rust... It's so sad for this project to be ON HOLD while Freedom Tower is UC.

Steel still rust... It's so sad for this project to be ON HOLD while Freedom Tower is UC.I'm sure it has water proofing on it

I'm sure it has water proofing on it

Waterproofing on it ? Look at the last photo ! Of course, it hasn't !

...and what's the big hole for?

Its for a tall tower that is built on unsteady soil, ie needing greater support. I guess the soil in Chicago CBD can hold up a tall tower using the hole they have, hence, they don't need to dig that deep. Please correct me if thats wrong.

Its for a tall tower that is built on unsteady soil, ie needing greater support. I guess the soil in Chicago CBD can hold up a tall tower using the hole they have, hence, they don't need to dig that deep. Please correct me if thats wrong.

you're right. chicago sits on dolomite bedrock, and a top layer of glacial till from previous glaciations, so it's pretty sturdy and good for anchoring skyscrapers.

shanghai's on a river delta, the alluvial deposits aren't that sturdy. in fact, the weight of skyscrapers on the accumulated silt is making the land sink. that, and drilling for ground water, are causing subsidence. so it may be a good idea to not build skyscrapers in shanghai, at least not ones this big.

poor hole, what will they do with it now?

The deep hole is good for a high building to sustain the whole building. Chicago or Shanghai both located near the large water source so soil is soft.

The deep hole is good for a high building to sustain the whole building. Chicago or Shanghai both located near the large water source so soil is soft.
It suggests you read post 8132. Chicago has bedrock fairly close to the surface so it's not difficult to create a good foundation. Shanghai on the other hand does not have readily accessible bedrock and creating adequate foundations is much more difficult. Being near water does not necessarily mean construction is more difficult.

Hi all.

For those comparing The CS hole with the ST hole :
1 - The CS hole is not the size of the tower footprint as they were to do a top down excavation process for the U/G levels. The ST hole is the full size of the tower as they are doing the more traditional method of constructing the lower levels from the bottom up. Therefore the size of the ST hole is bigger than the entire CS site (just a guestimate).
2 - The CS piling consists of 60 or 70 piles for the tower and they rest on bedrock. Not sure of the length. The ST has 955 - 1 meter dia. - 86 meter long skin friction piles. Like the BK the piles don't go down to bedrock. Yes that number is correct - 955 piles. On top of that they poured a 60,000 cu. m. raft (which must be a world record for a continuous foundation pour). The ST site may not be as stable as the CS site but the tower foundation is stable.

I would like to see this project go ahead just as the ST is. Both are great designs and with heights over 600 meters both are ambitious projects that would be welcome additions to the supertall skyscraper list.

:cheers:

Hi all.

For those comparing The CS hole with the ST hole :
1 - The CS hole is not the size of the tower footprint as they were to do a top down excavation process for the U/G levels. The ST hole is the full size of the tower as they are doing the more traditional method of constructing the lower levels from the bottom up. Therefore the size of the ST hole is bigger than the entire CS site (just a guestimate).
2 - The CS piling consists of 60 or 70 piles for the tower and they rest on bedrock. Not sure of the length. The ST has 955 - 1 meter dia. - 86 meter long skin friction piles. Like the BK the piles don't go down to bedrock. Yes that number is correct - 955 piles. On top of that they poured a 60,000 cu. m. raft (which must be a world record for a continuous foundation pour). The ST site may not be as stable as the CS site but the tower foundation is stable.

I would like to see this project go ahead just as the ST is. Both are great designs and with heights over 600 meters both are ambitious projects that would be welcome additions to the supertall skyscraper list.

:cheers:

The cofferdam they dug was just for the core. Surrounding the hole there are caissons buried and covered up. Below is a picture of just how wide the diameter of CS was to be. I've no doubt ST is still larger since it's a mix use building, while CS is strictly condominiums.

Followup, the lobby footprint is 15,220 sq ft. So it's not very big when compared to say office towers like 1WTC (40,000 sq ft) or Sears/Willis Tower which is 50,000 sq ft. But 15k sq ft is pretty massive for a residential building.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/harry.r.carmichael/Ru2Y1zpq-YI/AAAAAAAAFzE/EYgUaxauqDY/NvrDne_chicagospirepage02uu8.jpg?imgmax=640

Hi Spectre.

Here is a shot showing the pile layout.

http://j.imagehost.org/0184/plans_prints_3.jpg (http://j.imagehost.org/view/0184/plans_prints_3)

I count 66 piles for the tower itself.

Such a pity if this project dies. So much work already completed with great photog coverage - the majority from Harry of course.
Over 4000 pics in my CS pics folder.

:cheers:

How long are you allowed to have a big hole like this in Chicago? especially in an area like that.

It suggests you read post 8132. Chicago has bedrock fairly close to the surface so it's not difficult to create a good foundation. Shanghai on the other hand does not have readily accessible bedrock and creating adequate foundations is much more difficult. Being near water does not necessarily mean construction is more difficult.

Wasn't this area of land reclaimed from the lake with the debris from the Chicago Fire anyway? Or was this only the Gold Coast area...?

its very funny post this big hole every day?

I think the only proposition is to go back to Version A. It would dramatically cut the number of units, but keep all of the same amenities. what's everyone's thought's ?

I think it still will be a very nice addition to the skyline. Also the exceptional shape which never has been used before is still forthcoming.

I think they only proposition is to go back to the Version A. It would dramatically cut the number of units, but keep all of the same amenities. what's everyone's thought's ?

Calatrava has a long history of designing beautiful but fiscally ill-conceived structures that come in well over budget. Version A was rejected because it was almost a third more expensive per square foot than the current plan. If Kelleher can't get funding for this version, certainly Version A has even less of a chance.

This is all moot, of course. The project is dead.

Is it really time to fill in the hole and hold a wake for this project?

Is it really time to fill in the hole and hold a wake for this project?
NO

The longer they wait to restart this the more likely it won't go ahead. I am preparing myself for this project's death. Sorry to be pessimistic. I'm depressed about the whole situation.

The longer they wait to restart this the more likely it won't go ahead. I am preparing myself for this project's death. Sorry to be pessimistic. I'm depressed about the hole situation.

Sorry. Just had to do it :lol:

Chicago. The Holy City.

OK, enough of that now. This building really would be a nice addition to the Chicago skyline, despite its somewhat phallic shape. Let's just keep our fingers crossed that funding - somehow, magically - gets completed and the construction can continue.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/shelbourne-developments-finance-chief-quits-for-role-in-web-startup-2175029.html
Shelbourne Development's finance chief quits for role in web start-up
Tuesday May 11 2010
By John Mulligan

Shelbourne Development's finance director Emmet O'Reilly has left the troubled property group that is headed by embattled developer Garrett Kelleher.

Mr O'Reilly, who has been with the group for over seven years, formally resigned as a director of the firm within the past couple of weeks.

It's understood he has taken up a role with Dublin-based web start-up Weedle, a social networking firm that was co-founded by Iain MacDonald, who headed the Perlico telephone company before selling it to Vodafone in 2007.

Weedle attempts to link people's skills with available work. The company recently announced the closure of a $4m (€3.1m) fundraising drive. Its investors include Michael Smurfit, who was also an investor in Perlico, and Enterprise Ireland.

.....(cont'd) (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/shelbourne-developments-finance-chief-quits-for-role-in-web-startup-2175029.html)

These failing big projects always unravel in slow motion - it usually takes years. Rarely does a developer hold a big press conference and ceremony to announce the end. But when your finance director leaves to start a job finder website, that's certainly one more sign things aren't well at Shelborne. As if we need another sign?

And did I say "rarely"? I meant never. If they were to do it, what kind of ceremony should Kelleher and the city of Chicago hold? Perhaps a reverse ground breaking and surrender ceremony. Start with a group of dignitaries (bank loan officers, collection specialists, lien holders, repo men) surrounding the hole with silver shovels. A bugler could play taps as the attendees shovel a mound of $100 million in phony dollar bills into the hole. Then, in a special paid appearance, ex-governor Blagojevich could descend into the hole, light the mound of cash on fire, then stay there. Calatrava could personally detonate a small model of the Spire, then approach Kelleher and slap him across the face with a white glove. Finally Kelleher, clumsily dressed in top hat and tails, could board a ship docked in the Chicago river, take his place at one end of a long table draped in black cloth and sign an instrument of surrender, forfeiting the land to the banks. At the other end of the table Daley, after a very brief prayer, could intone, "These procedings are closed."

Then, and only then it seems, could we stop all this nonsense - thinking this building actually has a chance.

^^ Just LOL :lol: , but you are in the wrong place man, it seems that americans have limited amount of sense of humor ;)

^^ Just LOL :lol: , but you are in the wrong place man, it seems that americans have limited amount of sense of humor ;)

Lets not judge so many people by one persons post in a forum

^^ I'm sorry, ofcourse youre right, not every american, and not only americans, but I think they are a bit more sensitive than others ;) Much the same with Dubaians as well..

What about this idea: The city of Chicago buys the land and builds a re-designed version of the Tokyo Sky Tree. It would be much less expensive to build, fit the current foundation work perfectly, bring in tourist money, and become an iconic symbol for the city.

A bugler could play taps as the attendees shovel a mound of $100 million in phony dollar bills into the hole. Then, in a special paid appearance, ex-governor Blagojevich could descend into the hole, light the mound of cash on fire, then stay there. Calatrava could personally detonate a small model of the Spire, then approach Kelleher and slap him across the face with a white glove. .
:lol::lol:

What about this idea: The city of Chicago buys the land and builds a re-designed version of the Tokyo Sky Tree. It would be much less expensive to build, fit the current foundation work perfectly, bring in tourist money, and become an iconic symbol for the city.

I hope that was a joke? Chicago isn't in the business of
building eyesores, particularly in one of the city's most prominant locations.

Things are looking more and more dire. How many canceled/unbuilt supertalls does Chicago have in the last 30 years now? Has to be more than ten. This and the Skyneedle...

I hope that was a joke? Chicago isn't in the business of
building eyesores, particularly in one of the city's most prominant locations.

Nah, not a joke. I like the TST! It's not an eye sore to me, as a matter of fact I think it looks a lot like the CS, CN tower, etc. Beautiful.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=346504&page=185

Things are looking more and more dire. How many canceled/unbuilt supertalls does Chicago have in the last 30 years now? Has to be more than ten. This and the Skyneedle...

NYC has at least two times more cancelled supertalls... so chicago is just doing fine. :)

NYC has at least two times more cancelled supertalls... so chicago is just doing fine. :)

It's also a lot larger.

Don't talk about "The Chicago Spire is dead".
I have an "On-Hold" status on this one.

The future of this tower is unbelievably bleak. It's best to just forget about it, and if it comes back to life one day, you'll be all the more pleasantly surprised.

I agree with Puja Bali. Until someone officially says its dead, we should leave it on hold

Things are looking more and more dire. How many canceled/unbuilt supertalls does Chicago have in the last 30 years now? Has to be more than ten. This and the Skyneedle...

Well, that's probably why we have more supertalls than many other cities in the world. Here, supertalls come and they go. Something is bound to get built eventually so no sweat. I'm sure a supertall or 2 or 3, better than the Spire, will we built and a few more will be canceled all before the end of this decade.

I just saw on the news today that there was a contest about what should be done with spire's hole and the main ones they showed were a bunch of different lame ass parks so, I think this building is pretty dead...

I think we can consider this the final nail. The elaborate sales office in the NBC Tower is now closed. They were evicted for not paying rent. Do we really need the silver shovels and Calatrava with a white glove? It's over. This project ought to be moved to the cancelled or "never built" column.

Read the details here:


http://www.chicagobreakingbusiness.com/2010/05/chicago-spire-developer-closes-sales-office.html

I'm glad if there's clarity. I support closing the thread and letting it drop off the 1st page.

The fat lady has sung.

:goodnight

:goodnight:fiddle:

Although I wouldn't close the thread until it is officially dead, I would say the fat lady has left the theater.

damn drunk punch in the gut on this one. I'll wait for them to say it over before I start throwing dirt

Mine the Gap

http://ctbuh.org/Events/Competitions/MinetheGap/tabid/1553/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

What to do with a big hole in the ground? This question was the focus of the 2010 Chicago Prize Competition called MINE THE GAP, an international design ideas competition organized by the Chicago Architecture Club. The competition examined one of the most visible scars left after the collapse of the real estate market in Chicago, being a 70 foot deep and 86 foot wide hole along the Lake Michigan shore that was to have been—and may yet be—the foundation for a spiraling 150-story condominium tower designed by Santiago Calatrava.

The Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat acted as supporter of the competition. Also, CTBUH’s executive director Antony Wood served as one of the jurors. The winner was announced on Saturday May 15. The exhibition, which showed the finalists and a cross section of the more than 150 ideas that were submitted from all over the world, was on display at the John David Mooney Foundation in Chicago the week after.

The first prize, and the winner of the $3,500 grand prize, was won by Professor Alex Lehnerer and his team from the University of Illinois at Chicago with the idea to use the hole as a home base for an air balloon carrying a disc shaped swimming pool. The bright yellow color of the balloon reflects the name of the idea: The Second Sun. The surroundings of the hole would be transformed into a beach setting.

http://ctbuh.org/Portals/0/events/competitions/minethegap01.jpg

Second place went to ‘Return to Paradise’. This idea proposed to give the plot back to nature and allow it to transform itself into a natural landscape, in which the hole serves as an invitation to descend to the center of the earth. Third Prize was won by a project called ‘Lot 400’ which proposed to turn the gap into an exhibition space. Other ideas suggested a temporary cabbage field, a bungee jump facility, solar heated halo of water, water park, a fund raiser wishing well and a supersized lid.

http://ctbuh.org/Portals/0/events/competitions/minethegap06.jpg
Second place winner: Return to Paradise

http://ctbuh.org/Portals/0/events/competitions/minethegap07.jpg
Third place winner: Lot400

Didn't they want to build there because it was wasted land. Nature freaks need to move out of the city. I have a idea, build the damn spire. if your not going to do that, fill in the hole before some homeless dude falls in and their family sues.

LOL. Talk about rubbing salt in the wound. Otherwise, how would such whimsical ideas be rewarded? Problem is the coffer dam was intended to be temporary. I doubt it would be safe after a few Chicago winters.

My idea is still best: Tear down the Waterview hulk, pulverize it and use it to fill the hole.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/ct-met-daley-unfinished-business-091120100912,0,1281875.story

Daley the Builder leaves unfinished business
Many major Chicago projects are in midstream — and some are in trouble — as the mayor prepares to retire

By Blair Kamin, Jon Hilkevitch and Dahleen Glanton, Tribune reporters
September 12, 2010

MAJOR PROJECTS

The Chicago Spire: Along with Chicago's Olympic bid, architect Santiago Calatrava's design for the twisting, 2,000-foot luxury condo tower symbolized Daley's drive to enhance Chicago's presence on the global stage. But construction on the tower, at 400 N. Lake Shore Drive, ground to a halt as the recession tightened its grip in 2008.

Recently, according to a source close to the project, developer Garrett Kelleher held discussions with Calatrava about a two-building project that would stand a better chance of success in the battered real estate market because it would be built in phases.

The project might include a hotel as well as condos, the source said. For economic reasons alone, the towers almost surely will be well short of 2,000 feet.

A Kelleher spokeswoman did not return calls.

"My understanding is that Kelleher is still out there working on financing," the source said..........
..

I think they should use the Spire's plan but reduce the height to 1,100 feet and make it restaurant, condos, hotel, office, parking, and 1-3 levels of of ground floor retail from top to bottom. (all bases covered :lol:)

Even if it takes 20 years, I say get the thing built. I love the Spire and it would be a sad project to waste.

So why is the Chicago Fordham Spire on hold?!?!?!?!?! Can anybody tell me!?!?!

Kelleher needs to sell the designs to someone who has a better chance of getting the full tower financed. He can't swing a $1.5 billion project and he needs to stop deluding himself already. He gambled on something far beyond his reach and lost. Tough f**king luck.

I saw not too long ago that sales at the Trump Tower finally passed the 50% mark. Which is up from 30% sold when it was completed. So maybe the market is finally coming back? Sales were strong at the Spire up until the economy faltered (1/3 pre-sold, including the $40 million penthouse). I'm sure most of the buyers have cancelled by now. But the only one who really knows is Kelleher.

When the dump trucks start filling in the cofferdam with dirt, then you know it's really over.

It a be 910 feet just kidding. It would have been amazing, to see the twiste start out the ground. I might not be a fan of this building but I don't want to see it die.

I'm glad it's canceled. The Chicago Spire looked like a giant... you get my drift. It doesn't suit Chicago's skyline at all.

Hi all.

Great project.
Great design.
One of the projects I decided to watch and collect pics of.
Great coverage because it's in North America - mostly HarryC.
Over 3500 shots of the foundation work from the first bucketfull of dirt moved.

I for one hope this gets going again.

:cheers:

I'm glad it's canceled. The Chicago Spire looked like a giant... you get my drift. It doesn't suit Chicago's skyline at all.

How does it not suit Chicago's skyline ? Chicago is the home of the skyscraper ... what skyline would it suit ?

it almost dead project....

How does it not suit Chicago's skyline ? Chicago is the home of the skyscraper ... what skyline would it suit ?

i didnt think it fit either
ny is the home of the skyscraper

Is there a chance to redesign the project to a smaller tower, let's say 100m? It would still be a landmark because of it's unusual shape. :)

How does it not suit Chicago's skyline ? Chicago is the home of the skyscraper ... what skyline would it suit ?

It would fit Dubai pretty well. The problem for me is that it would have been too close to the lake for such a tall tower. All the skyline renders with it included look worse than the current Chicago skyline.

And something about the tallest building in Chicago being a thin white nature-inspired condo tower for foreign millionaires instead of an economy-boosting brawny office tower doesn't sit well with me either.

Wouldn't mind seeing Waterview get completed though. It's shorter, far enough back from the lakefront and more appropriate to Chicago's architectural heritage than the Spire.

Chicago already has two thin, white, cylindrical, nature-inspired apartment towers primarily occupied by recent immigrants.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3350/3564775102_9a4eb676d4_z.jpg

I think the Spire is too classy and symmetrical-looking for Dubai.

It just occurred to me: if they decide to build two short Spires they would be they high-end cousin of Marina City :happy: