If defined by the "National Capital Region" I think the Va. side is already a tick larger.


According to Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments: (www.mwcog.org/uploads/pub-documents/81peWQ20051117104721.pdf)
Most of the population growth will be in
Fairfax, Loudoun, and Montgomery counties.
However, the outer jurisdictions will
experience the fastest rates of growth, led by
Loudoun (183 percent), Stafford (112 percent),
and Prince William (98 percent) counties.
The region’s central jurisdictions will
grow more slowly. In Arlington County and
the City of Alexandria, population will increase
by 31 and 32 percent, respectively.
The District of Columbia will experience an
end of short-term population loss and will
grow by 28 percent during the forecast period.


Population:

Northern Virginia
2000 1,908,100
(2005 2,164,700)
2010 2,434,700
2020 2,823,800
2030 3,083,200

Suburban Maryland
2000 2,071,800
(2005 2,236,500)
2010 2,354,200
2020 2,553,100
2030 2,794,300

Interesting.... I had pretty much always thought that the MD side would be much bigger.

Interesting.... I had pretty much always thought that the MD side would be much bigger.

It is over twice the size when you include Baltimore City, Baltimore County, Howard County and Anne Arundel County.

Even with just Howard County and Anne Arundel County it is bigger.

well that's what i thought...

Interesting.... I had pretty much always thought that the MD side would be much bigger.

Not when you people continue to support those anti-Growth Dictating/Communist/Obstructionist Democrats that are tryng every scheme to scare OFF Developers in order to Prevent Business/Economic/Revenue Growth for Maryland.

It is over twice the size when you include Baltimore City, Baltimore County, Howard County and Anne Arundel County.

Even with just Howard County and Anne Arundel County it is bigger.

It is very Dumb to try to place the Baltimore area as the shadow under DC. All that means is that Maryland does not have any independent Major cities with Major Suburbs. If you talking about extended MD/DC suburbs then its definately Charles, St. Mary's, Calvert, and Frederick Counties.

Like it or not in a few years Howard County will bridge the gap between Baltimore commuters and D.C. commuters and it will become one big megalopolis

(especially after the ICC is completed!)

Like it or not in a few years Howard County will bridge the gap between Baltimore commuters and D.C. commuters and it will become one big megalopolis

(especially after the ICC is completed!)

Baltimore-Washington form one metropolitan area while Washington through Boston form a Megalopolis. Otherwise, I agree with everything you just wrote.

Baltimore-Washington form one metropolitan area while Washington through Boston form a Megalopolis. Otherwise, I agree with everything you just wrote.

The Megapolis can very well stretch from Richmond(or Hampton Roads area) to Boston, thats if Virginia continues to extend the growth further south.

Baltimore-Washington form one metropolitan area while Washington through Boston form a Megalopolis

Thanks for clearing that up.

I don't know what the official definition is :)

But what you wrote makes more sense.

By the way, I know many Baltimoreans who would wince at the notion that they don't live in a "seperate" urban area than Washington, D.C.

Cheers!

If defined by the "National Capital Region" I think the Va. side is already a tick larger.


According to Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments: (www.mwcog.org/uploads/pub-documents/81peWQ20051117104721.pdf)
Most of the population growth will be in
Fairfax, Loudoun, and Montgomery counties.
However, the outer jurisdictions will
experience the fastest rates of growth, led by
Loudoun (183 percent), Stafford (112 percent),
and Prince William (98 percent) counties.
The region’s central jurisdictions will
grow more slowly. In Arlington County and
the City of Alexandria, population will increase
by 31 and 32 percent, respectively.
The District of Columbia will experience an
end of short-term population loss and will
grow by 28 percent during the forecast period.


Population:

Northern Virginia
2000 1,908,100
(2005 2,164,700)
2010 2,434,700
2020 2,823,800
2030 3,083,200

Suburban Maryland
2000 2,071,800
(2005 2,236,500)
2010 2,354,200
2020 2,553,100
2030 2,794,300

How about who really cares? My belief is that the quality of the population is far more important than the quantity.

By the way what constitutes the Capital Region of Maryland and Nova?

I think the Maryland side would lose out far more on the quality "competition" (as some might see it). Perhaps the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments should come out with a population quality study, it would be fun to watch the reactions here on SSC.

As for the definition of the "Capital Region", I wouldn't know. Homeland Security or the Department of Defense might have one.

Not sure about this. 2010 ain't far away (a scary thought in itself considering 2001 didn't seem that long ago.) I predict Maryland to narrowly have the edge, especially if displaced Washingtonians continue the exodus to Prince George's County where the cost of living is substantially cheaper than elsewhere in the area.

I think the Maryland side would lose out far more on the quality "competition" (as some might see it).
Uhhh...what?

Uhhh...what?
Just a guess/observance :dunno:
As an outsider, the only thing I can link with "quality of people" is "crime rate" and "income"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/29/AR2006082901543.html
Rapidly growing Loudoun County has emerged as the wealthiest jurisdiction in the nation, with its households last year having a median income of more than $98,000. It is followed by Fairfax and Howard counties, with Montgomery County not far behind.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
In 2004, the Baltimore police departments reported more homicides per 100,000 residents than any other jurisdiction. The rate of homicide per 100,000 was 43.5, nearly eight times the national average. Fairfax County, Virginia, a very affluent suburban enclave of the nation's capital with 1,041,200 residents, had the lowest homicide rate of any jurisdiction. In 2004, Fairfax County's homicide rate was reported at 0.3 homicides per 100,000 persons, 94.5% below the national average and 1/145 of Baltimore's homicide rate.

(Statewide)
http://www.morganquitno.com/dang06.htm
2006 MOST DANGEROUS STATE
"1" is Most Dangerous, "50" is Safest

Maryland
2006 Rank
5
2005 Rank
4

Virginia
2006 Rank
37
2005 Rank
38



(DC area)
Washington area top 20 companies market capitalization total by state
Washington DC(2) $69,210M
Maryland(8) $109,557M (includes 2 companies in Baltimore)
Virginia(10) $272,132M
http://www.greaterwashington.org/business/companies/market_capitalization.htm

Washington area Fortune 500 companies revenue total by state
Washington DC(2) $14,111.1M
Maryland(5) $54,710.0M
Virginia(9) $94,942.0M
http://www.greaterwashington.org/business/companies/fortune_500.htm

Washington area top 15 private companies revenue total by state
Washington DC(1) $10,100.0M
Maryland(9) $19,167.3M
Virginia(5) $25,400.0M
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/post200/2006/private_2006.html

Washington area Hispanic 500 companies revenue total by state
Washington DC(5) $141.3M
Maryland(8) $321.5M
Virginia(16) $640.4M
http://www.greaterwashington.org/business/companies/hispanic.htm



(Statewide)

Asian Alone Percentage: 2003 2004 2005
District of Columbia 3.2 2.9 3.0
Maryland 4.7 4.7 4.7
Virginia 4.4 4.5 4.7

(other)
Black Enterprise magazine selected six Fairfax County companies for its 2006 list of the largest African-American-owned corporations in the United States. Only one locality had more companies on the list than Fairfax County (Detroit with eight) and six states (Michigan, Ohio, Georgia, Texas, Illinois and Maryland).
http://www.fairfaxcountyeda.org/be.htm


Not sure about this. 2010 ain't far away (a scary thought in itself considering 2001 didn't seem that long ago.) I predict Maryland to narrowly have the edge, especially if displaced Washingtonians continue the exodus to Prince George's County where the cost of living is substantially cheaper than elsewhere in the area.
Hopefully by 2010 I'll have my flying car, which I've been waiting for since 2000:bash:

Uhhh...what?

Ignore it, it's just looking to troll.

Not when you people continue to support those anti-Growth Dictating/Communist/Obstructionist Democrats that are tryng every scheme to scare OFF Developers in order to Prevent Business/Economic/Revenue Growth for Maryland.

I can only assume that you think I am someone else, because what you just about me is so off base that it doesn't even make sense to me. I do not now, nor have I ever lived in Maryland (or the DC region). I am not a Democrat, anti-growth or Communist.

I suggest that you read the forum rules and start following them, because directing such inflammatory remarks (lies, no less) at people here is one of the faster ways to get banned.

I think the Maryland side would lose out far more on the quality "competition" (as some might see it). Perhaps the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments should come out with a population quality study, it would be fun to watch the reactions here on SSC.

As for the definition of the "Capital Region", I wouldn't know. Homeland Security or the Department of Defense might have one.

Yeah that can happen especially since you Maryland hating Virginians have a part in getting more psycho left wing troll hicks to take over Maryland and sabatoge EVERY Form of Business/Economic/Revenue growth and part of the bait was for you people to help make sure that Maryland does not get anymore Highways to be built and fool the Maryland voters/tax payers to believe that Mass Transit is better than building roads just to get them to spend more tax dollars(on bulding more mass transit) which would secretely go towards building expensive Mass Transit projects in Virginia such as the Silveer Line to Loudon County.

Just a guess/observance :dunno:
As an outsider, the only thing I can link with "quality of people" is "crime rate" and "income"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/29/AR2006082901543.html
Rapidly growing Loudoun County has emerged as the wealthiest jurisdiction in the nation, with its households last year having a median income of more than $98,000. It is followed by Fairfax and Howard counties, with Montgomery County not far behind.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States
In 2004, the Baltimore police departments reported more homicides per 100,000 residents than any other jurisdiction. The rate of homicide per 100,000 was 43.5, nearly eight times the national average. Fairfax County, Virginia, a very affluent suburban enclave of the nation's capital with 1,041,200 residents, had the lowest homicide rate of any jurisdiction. In 2004, Fairfax County's homicide rate was reported at 0.3 homicides per 100,000 persons, 94.5% below the national average and 1/145 of Baltimore's homicide rate.

(Statewide)
http://www.morganquitno.com/dang06.htm
2006 MOST DANGEROUS STATE
"1" is Most Dangerous, "50" is Safest

Maryland
2006 Rank
5
2005 Rank
4

Virginia
2006 Rank
37
2005 Rank
38



(DC area)
Washington area top 20 companies market capitalization total by state
Washington DC(2) $69,210M
Maryland(8) $109,557M (includes 2 companies in Baltimore)
Virginia(10) $272,132M
http://www.greaterwashington.org/business/companies/market_capitalization.htm

Washington area Fortune 500 companies revenue total by state
Washington DC(2) $14,111.1M
Maryland(5) $54,710.0M
Virginia(9) $94,942.0M
http://www.greaterwashington.org/business/companies/fortune_500.htm

Washington area top 15 private companies revenue total by state
Washington DC(1) $10,100.0M
Maryland(9) $19,167.3M
Virginia(5) $25,400.0M
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/post200/2006/private_2006.html

Washington area Hispanic 500 companies revenue total by state
Washington DC(5) $141.3M
Maryland(8) $321.5M
Virginia(16) $640.4M
http://www.greaterwashington.org/business/companies/hispanic.htm



(Statewide)

Asian Alone Percentage: 2003 2004 2005
District of Columbia 3.2 2.9 3.0
Maryland 4.7 4.7 4.7
Virginia 4.4 4.5 4.7

(other)
Black Enterprise magazine selected six Fairfax County companies for its 2006 list of the largest African-American-owned corporations in the United States. Only one locality had more companies on the list than Fairfax County (Detroit with eight) and six states (Michigan, Ohio, Georgia, Texas, Illinois and Maryland).
http://www.fairfaxcountyeda.org/be.htm



Hopefully by 2010 I'll have my flying car, which I've been waiting for since 2000:bash:

Most of that is not of great credibility.

I can only assume that you think I am someone else, because what you just about me is so off base that it doesn't even make sense to me. I do not now, nor have I ever lived in Maryland (or the DC region). I am not a Democrat, anti-growth or Communist.

I suggest that you read the forum rules and start following them, because directing such inflammatory remarks (lies, no less) at people here is one of the faster ways to get banned.

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

:wave:

I think the Maryland side would lose out far more on the quality "competition" (as some might see it).
Would it? Isn't Montgomery County one of the top five wealthiest counties in the United States?

Would it? Isn't Montgomery County one of the top five wealthiest counties in the United States?

As far as I know Loudon, Fairfax, and Howard are slightly wealthier...but Montgomery is right up there with those three.

Would it? Isn't Montgomery County one of the top five wealthiest counties in the United States?
The wealthiest cities in the region are in MoCo, but technically Loudon, Fairfax and HoCo are on average wealthier.

Yeah that can happen especially since you Maryland hating Virginians -
I don't hate Maryland, some Marylanders in the DC area seem pretty spiteful, other than them Marylanders seem nice.

The state itself doesn't appeal to me however, that's why if I ever move back to the DC area I would go for NoVA. I'm not considering moving back right now.
Would it? Isn't Montgomery County one of the top five wealthiest counties in the United States?
I think for a while Montgomery County was the wealthiest county in the region, in the early 90's it was passed by Fairfax(which became the wealthiest in the US), then Loudoun passed Fairfax when it reached 250,000 people (a county needs 250,000 people to be ranked as a "wealthy" county). I don't think Montgomery is in the top 5 right now.
The wealthiest cities in the region are in MoCo, but technically Loudon, Fairfax and HoCo are on average wealthier.


Interesting, the "wealthiest" places (Census Designated Places actually) I could find after a quick scan were Great Falls ($290,000, 8,549) and Fairfax Station ($210,000+, 19,000+) in Fairfax County, and Chevy Chase Village ($200,000+, 2,043) and Travilah ($171,879, 7,442) in Montgomery County. What are the wealthiest cities in the region?

Loudoun isn't really large yet but it's getting there. Technically it's large/ But Montgomery and Fairfax are right up there with Fairfield, Westchester, and other well-known wealthy counties w/ close to a million people or more.

Interesting, the "wealthiest" places (Census Designated Places actually) I could find after a quick scan were Great Falls ($290,000, 8,549) and Fairfax Station ($210,000+, 19,000+) in Fairfax County, and Chevy Chase Village ($200,000+, 2,043) and Travilah ($171,879, 7,442) in Montgomery County. What are the wealthiest cities in the region?
Those are the wealthiest towns. The wealthiest cities (as in places with a significant population) are Potomac, Bethesda, Chevy Chase and McLean. The 2011 US Open will be held at Bethesda's Congressional Country Club in 2011...whatever relevance that has. In the past, Washington's annual PGA tour event was held at my club: Avenel in Potomac.

Those numbers didn't seem quite right to me, so I checked the census website:
Chevy Chase Village Town, median household income: 200,001
Great Falls, VA, median household income: 159,695

The site didn't have Fairfax Station. You must have gotten the number for Great Falls from Wikipedia, which must be wrong - the income numbers for the median family and median household were 100,000 dollars apart, even though the numbers are usually quite close.

Great Falls has the wealthiest zip code in the region, Potomac is very high also. Obviously town wise, VA is going to be a bit more complicated w/ the way the jurisdictions are organized.

Great Falls has the wealthiest zip code in the region, Potomac is very high also. Obviously town wise, VA is going to be a bit more complicated w/ the way the jurisdictions are organized.

Potomac zip code, 20854, is huge, containing tens of thousands of people. It could easily be broken down to multiple portions the size of Great Falls' zip code with far higher median incomes.

I don't hate Maryland, some Marylanders in the DC area seem pretty spiteful, other than them Marylanders seem nice.

The state itself doesn't appeal to me however, that's why if I ever move back to the DC area I would go for NoVA. I'm not considering moving back right now.

The hell are you talking about, you are a Maryland hating Good Ol' Boy that got lucky with some money.

I think the other reason why you hate Maryland because it is not as southern and less ethnic as Virginia.

Great Falls has the wealthiest zip code in the region, Potomac is very high also. Obviously town wise, VA is going to be a bit more complicated w/ the way the jurisdictions are organized.

But drewbwhite just posted Chevy Chase Village Town (which is very much incorporated) has a higher median income?

I would say wealthiest area vs wealthiest area of both counties, Montgomery County still has the edge. They don't call Wisconsin Ave in Chevy Chase the "Rodeo Drive of the East Coast" for nothing. Also considering its size, Potomac is still the overall wealthiest area imo, couple that with Bethesda ans well...

That may be true. I still don't like the comparison of county v. county here IMO. I think it's better just compare VA suburbs to MD suburbs if you're going to compare b/c Fairfax doesn't border DC. Even then MD suburbs still have the edge in wealthy "feel". That's one of the big advantages that MoCo has. Naturally, Fairfax's buffer traditionally means it's going to be a lot more residential and less commercial so that works against it. Fairfax has less super rich but more rich overall I feel.

I still like Great Falls better than Potomac though. I'm not trying to start a pissing match, I just think the setting is a bit more impressive and exclusive. Different strokes for different folks. Potomac definitely feels bigger, where Great Falls is secluded, I like the seclusion better.

More stupid rankings. They have rankings for zip codes based off of median home price and income. Home price ones seem to be more common, Cali dominates those, but here is a wealth one. I prefer to use legit sources.

This is percentage of six-figure income earners. From 11/04
60043 Kenilworth, IL 82.92%
22039 Fairfax Station, VA 79.20%
22066 Great Falls, VA 78.66%
94506 Danville, CA 78.24%
94027 Atherton, CA 78.04%
07078 Short Hills, NJ 76.70%
10577 Purchase, NY 75.73%
94028 Portola Valley, CA 75.56%
10506 Bedford, NY 74.82%
66221 Overland Park, KS 74.50%
92067 Rancho Santa Fe, CA 74.48%
20854 Potomac, MD 73.53%
76092 Southlake, TX 73.21%
10554 Chappaqua, NY 72.90%
10576 Pound Ridge, NY 72.80%
08550 Princeton Junction, NJ 72.62%
77094 Houston, TX 72.49%
60022 Glencoe, IL 70.91%
94507 Alamo, CA 70.90%
95970 Saratoga, CA 70.42%
08836 Martinsville, NJ 70.33%
02493 Weston, MA 70.09%
11568 Old Westbury, NY 70.23%
06883 Weston, CT 70.09%
07021 Essex Fells, NJ 70.06%
07046 Mountain Lakes, NJ 70.05%
21029 Clarksville, MD 70.00%
06897 Wilton, CT 69.88%
19035 Gladwyne, PA 69.80%
08502 Belle Mead, NJ 69.49%
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/high_income_zips/

I can't find a credible one of highest income zip codes. One is adjusted, so it's got a bunch of random places on it.

http://wealth.mongabay.com/tables/100_income_zip_codes-1000.html

This is one on income, but I don't know how credible it is. It seems pretty credible to me for the most part.

In Bethesda we roll stock on 493 horses and 516 foot pounds of torque:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/382392404_ba042337c6_b.jpg
There's a reason why most people between New York and Atlanta have to come to Bethesda to buy a new Mclaren, Rolls Royce or Bentley. 'nuff said.

The only thing NoVa is good for is the Aston Martin dealership in Mclean/Tysons.

More stupid rankings. They have rankings for zip codes based off of median home price and income. Home price ones seem to be more common, Cali dominates those, but here is a wealth one. I prefer to use legit sources.

This is percentage of six-figure income earners. From 11/04
60043 Kenilworth, IL 82.92%
22039 Fairfax Station, VA 79.20%
22066 Great Falls, VA 78.66%
94506 Danville, CA 78.24%
94027 Atherton, CA 78.04%
07078 Short Hills, NJ 76.70%
10577 Purchase, NY 75.73%
94028 Portola Valley, CA 75.56%
10506 Bedford, NY 74.82%
66221 Overland Park, KS 74.50%
92067 Rancho Santa Fe, CA 74.48%
20854 Potomac, MD 73.53%
76092 Southlake, TX 73.21%
10554 Chappaqua, NY 72.90%
10576 Pound Ridge, NY 72.80%
08550 Princeton Junction, NJ 72.62%
77094 Houston, TX 72.49%
60022 Glencoe, IL 70.91%
94507 Alamo, CA 70.90%
95970 Saratoga, CA 70.42%
08836 Martinsville, NJ 70.33%
02493 Weston, MA 70.09%
11568 Old Westbury, NY 70.23%
06883 Weston, CT 70.09%
07021 Essex Fells, NJ 70.06%
07046 Mountain Lakes, NJ 70.05%
21029 Clarksville, MD 70.00%
06897 Wilton, CT 69.88%
19035 Gladwyne, PA 69.80%
08502 Belle Mead, NJ 69.49%
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/high_income_zips/

I can't find a credible one of highest income zip codes. One is adjusted, so it's got a bunch of random places on it.

http://wealth.mongabay.com/tables/100_income_zip_codes-1000.html

This is one on income, but I don't know how credible it is. It seems pretty credible to me for the most part.
Again, 20854 has over 30,000 people living in it while Great Fall's only has 8,000. Take the richest 8,000 in Potomac and compare that to Great Falls. Even better would be to take the richest 8,000 in West Bethesda which is actually richer than the richest part of Potomac.

Look, don't shoot the messenger, these are the rankings and the technicalities can apply across the board. So just b/c there's a large population in 20854, be my guest and look up the other ones so see if there are any others. Those are the zip codes.

In Bethesda we roll stock on 493 horses and 516 foot pounds of torque:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/382392404_ba042337c6_b.jpg
There's a reason why most people between New York and Atlanta have to come to Bethesda to buy a new Mclaren, Rolls Royce or Bentley. 'nuff said.

The only thing NoVa is good for is the Aston Martin dealership in Mclean/Tysons.

The DC area doesn't hold a candle to NYC, LA or South Florida when it comes to uber-wealthy, so let's not get ahead of ourselves. We do have the largest upper middle class in the country percentage wise, which is by no means anything to sneeze at.

In Bethesda we roll stock on 493 horses and 516 foot pounds of torque:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/382392404_ba042337c6_b.jpg
There's a reason why most people between New York and Atlanta have to come to Bethesda to buy a new Mclaren, Rolls Royce or Bentley. 'nuff said.

The only thing NoVa is good for is the Aston Martin dealership in Mclean/Tysons.

Is that you looking all P.I.M.P. in that photo BalWash? And don't tell me that's your car too?:dj:

Is that you looking all P.I.M.P. in that photo BalWash? And don't tell me that's your car too?:dj:

Hahahaha, if he had that car, he would end up killing himself in an accident.

Is that you looking all P.I.M.P. in that photo BalWash? And don't tell me that's your car too?:dj:

That's me looking tired after polishing the rims after over a month of accumulation of black dust from heavy breaking on German-made 14.2 inch brake rotors. Ajoutz is right, I would have killed myself if that were my car. My dad lets me drive it when he's there though...

I have been reading and watching many of the posts in several different forums here. This group is very dynamic and from my perspective, all are happy to be in Maryland (if that is where they are living). I myself live in Baltimore City and love it and for the past 9.5 years (since I arrived here) have been enthralled by the dramatic changes that have been going on in the city and in the State. I don't understand how people can be accused of being "Virginia Lovers" etc. because they oppose a certain transit line and favor a different type of transit or they mention how affluent people in NoVa are or even if they mention the volume of business that is done there. The entire area benefits from it, and it makes sense that Arlington and the surrounding area would have a lot of business because the only thing separating them from Downtown Washington is the Potomac. Due to the original design of DC, the federal government and the Mall are right in the middle of the "Diamond" made up of Washington, DC and Arlington. Surrounding the federal government are businesses which are then surrounded by residential areas of the city. By retroceding the Virginia side, they got to be part of that diamond and take advantage of being flush against the federal government. Maryland is not reached until after you get past the residential areas of Washington, putting it at a disadvantage to Northern Virginia for businesses who want easy access to the district. I dont know, this does not really belong here, but it is a point that has not really been addressed when people are trying to pit one against the other. IN the end, both states are doing well, and there is a lot more to both states other than just the capital region. Growth is growth, whether is is slow, fast, smart, or dumb....(sprawl in my mind). Thanks for letting me rant.

Welcome!

I have been reading and watching many of the posts in several different forums here. This group is very dynamic and from my perspective, all are happy to be in Maryland (if that is where they are living). I myself live in Baltimore City and love it and for the past 9.5 years (since I arrived here) have been enthralled by the dramatic changes that have been going on in the city and in the State. I don't understand how people can be accused of being "Virginia Lovers" etc. because they oppose a certain transit line and favor a different type of transit or they mention how affluent people in NoVa are or even if they mention the volume of business that is done there. The entire area benefits from it, and it makes sense that Arlington and the surrounding area would have a lot of business because the only thing separating them from Downtown Washington is the Potomac. Due to the original design of DC, the federal government and the Mall are right in the middle of the "Diamond" made up of Washington, DC and Arlington. Surrounding the federal government are businesses which are then surrounded by residential areas of the city. By retroceding the Virginia side, they got to be part of that diamond and take advantage of being flush against the federal government. Maryland is not reached until after you get past the residential areas of Washington, putting it at a disadvantage to Northern Virginia for businesses who want easy access to the district. I dont know, this does not really belong here, but it is a point that has not really been addressed when people are trying to pit one against the other. IN the end, both states are doing well, and there is a lot more to both states other than just the capital region. Growth is growth, whether is is slow, fast, smart, or dumb....(sprawl in my mind). Thanks for letting me rant.

No offense but cut the B.S. please. The people proclaiming "the whole region benefits" B.S. are living in a dream world. Nobody in Va commuting to Maryland for work and vice versa benefits. Corporate and property taxes collected in Va do not go to Maryland. Va or D.C. didn't pour millions of dollars into revitalizing downtown Silver Spring.

So my question is, when an area is in distress will the whole "region" chip in and help make it a better place? This is why it can never be.

Is Va money helping revitalize Baltimore? Is Maryland money helping revitalize Richmond? For every office building built in Reston is there one built in Silver Spring? That's like saying all the northerns moving to the south Benefits NJ and the whole eastern seaboard. How does that work when one area is going into decline?

I could understand if we were all one state but were not and development in this region in not spread evenly. So if you push on one end it's going to pull on the other. Basically, ones prosperity can very well be at another's expense. It's not Noah's arc here, there isn't going to be 2 or 3 of everything to go around, we very much do compete. Concentrating job development in one end will definitely effect the other and not in a positive way.

The region is definitely competitive and divided especially with the ignorant and arrogant attitudes of other areas who don't want to associate with other jurisdictions but will gladly accept their services and benefits from what they have given. They are content with the way things are because things are going good on their side even though in reality it's imbalanced and not all because of market conditions either.

The best thing to do is put jobs close to where people work and revitalize forgotten areas close to the cities not go to exurban areas to include the nth county in the region.

O.K. My mistake. Thanks for the welcome NovaWolverine.

^^You blow things out of proportion. There are always creative ways to have everyone benefit. It's not as if PG County is getting a new office tower or job for every one created in Montgomery County. You're making it sound like one area is heaven and the other is hell. I think the job projections and economic studies really dispute that. If people are working in VA or MD, and live out of state, they're still going back to where they live and paying taxes there and spending the majority of their income there. Everyone in the region has benefitted from the nations capitol being here. With your line of thinking, you could say that MDers come into VA and work and drive here use our infrastructure and go home and pay taxes and spend money over there. Which is what happens in DC from both states. There is some reciprosity, contrary to what you would make people believe. There doesn't need to be a perpetual bitterness and un-friendly competitiveness.

That is more what I was driving at.

^^ You have a simplistic view of the issue, the negative impacts outweigh any benefits. You claim commuters who live in the jurisdiction they do not work in will "spend money". Who's going to carry the burden on the school system? Who's going to pay for all the new roads, sewer systems, health sevices and increase in crime? Believe it or not, being complacent like you are isn't going to cut it. Economics says there is no free lunch.

One need only look at Prince George's County to see that your way of thiking will lead to a disaster in the making. Shouldn't we learn from our past? Time has shown again and again that a concentration of residential neighborhoods is asking for trouble in the long run, there are very few exceptions and those areas are filthy rich.

Enjoy your bedroom community somewhere else.

^^You blow things out of proportion. There are always creative ways to have everyone benefit. It's not as if PG County is getting a new office tower or job for every one created in Montgomery County. You're making it sound like one area is heaven and the other is hell. I think the job projections and economic studies really dispute that. If people are working in VA or MD, and live out of state, they're still going back to where they live and paying taxes there and spending the majority of their income there. Everyone in the region has benefitted from the nations capitol being here. With your line of thinking, you could say that MDers come into VA and work and drive here use our infrastructure and go home and pay taxes and spend money over there. Which is what happens in DC from both states. There is some reciprosity, contrary to what you would make people believe. There doesn't need to be a perpetual bitterness and un-friendly competitiveness.

So when You People are confrunted about the hidden agenda to make Virginia the Business Capital of the mid-atlantic while making Maryland a Third World State, you try to instigate a beef between PG and Montgomery County.

All I'm going to say is that more than 50% of Marylanders commute to Virginia to work. This so-called Smart Growth hidden agenda is was to promote people to live close to wherethey work. Anyone with a human brain can comprehend the hidden Agenda behind the Smart Growth Bull Shit.

That is more what I was driving at.

Yeah alot of Virginians are hoping to DRIVE people away from Maryland and Live, Work, Play in Virginia.

Yeah alot of Virginians are hoping to DRIVE people away from Maryland and Live, Work, Play in Virginia.


While I don't like the way harlem's posts are always bashing people for being liberal, hating Maryland, and loving Virginia, I have to say I agree with him/her that we cannot just stop building/expanding roads and instead substitute them with mass transit. Both go hand-in-hand. Yes, let's fund a rail-line but let's also expand the roads for people that want to use them. Ultimately, we, the people, pay for these developments (be it roads, rail, buses, etc) with our taxes and tolls so what right do people have to tell us that we will not be allowed to use the roads? Ultimately, we have to think what works best for us and this is very subjective. Not all people have jobs where they go from point A (home) to point B (work). A lot of people have to travel to a third or fourth point. AND, in most cases the mass transit is not convenient for that.

Remember that the trains here are not like New York City where you can go almost anywhere by train (with some limitations). Of course, the argument can be made that if people use the transit more then more lines will eventually be developed. But what do we do till then? Sacrifice our time and energy? How would you explain that to your boss? Why did it take you 2 hours to get somewhere that's 25 minutes away by car? Good luck with that one.

Anyway, I am not for destroying nature, clearing forests so we can build new super-highways. Still, we do need to expand a little from time to time. It is no secret that this area is growing and with more people we need to expand our infrastructure.

Mass transit is fine for people who have a metro near their homes and one near where they work and they don't need to go anywhere else for work. But, for those who do need to travel, a car is usually more convenient. And, if you're going to forcefully make things inconvenient for them, then guess what? They'll move.

And you think people working in VA and living in MD is bad? Make their lives difficult/inconvenient and they will work in VA and live in VA.

^^ You have a simplistic view of the issue, the negative impacts outweigh any benefits. You claim commuters who live in the jurisdiction they do not work in will "spend money". Who's going to carry the burden on the school system? Who's going to pay for all the new roads, sewer systems, health sevices and increase in crime? Believe it or not, being complacent like you are isn't going to cut it. Economics says there is no free lunch.

One need only look at Prince George's County to see that your way of thiking will lead to a disaster in the making. Shouldn't we learn from our past? Time has shown again and again that a concentration of residential neighborhoods is asking for trouble in the long run, there are very few exceptions and those areas are filthy rich.

Enjoy your bedroom community somewhere else.

People in PG County don't make the incomes that the people in other places do. You're just twisting what I said around. I never said anything about concentrating residential neighborhoods or putting businesses all in one place.

And I'm not discouraging business in other places, but you can't hold other people accountable the success or failures. That's what's happening. All that goes on in these forums is people blaming VA for everything, people bashing VA, it's immature and absurd. The jurisdictions are better off doing what they can do internally to benefits themselves, to think that a place would do something inefficient like blocking others as a primary form of gaining businesses is just stupid.

So when You People are confrunted about the hidden agenda to make Virginia the Business Capital of the mid-atlantic while making Maryland a Third World State, you try to instigate a beef between PG and Montgomery County.

This statement is just ridiculous. Again, enough with the propaganda.

People in PG County don't make the incomes that the people in other places do. You're just twisting what I said around. I never said anything about concentrating residential neighborhoods or putting businesses all in one place.

And I'm not discouraging business in other places, but you can't hold other people accountable the success or failures. That's what's happening. All that goes on in these forums is people blaming VA for everything, people bashing VA, it's immature and absurd. The jurisdictions are better off doing what they can do internally to benefits themselves, to think that a place would do something inefficient like blocking others as a primary form of gaining businesses is just stupid.

I agree. I don't see how we can blame VA for being competitive fro job growth. I think that some of the consequences of their growth (sprawl) is not good, but I wish MD would act more like VA in allowing more unhindered development. I want MD to aggressive try to get businesses from all over to more into already developed areas to make them denser, subsidies and tax breaks should be given to foster more re-development of badly-used land.

So when You People are confrunted about the hidden agenda to make Virginia the Business Capital of the mid-atlantic while making Maryland a Third World State, you try to instigate a beef between PG and Montgomery County.

That is without a doubt the funniest thing you have ever said.

While I don't like the way harlem's posts are always bashing people for being liberal, hating Maryland, and loving Virginia, I have to say I agree with him/her that we cannot just stop building/expanding roads and instead substitute them with mass transit. Both go hand-in-hand. Yes, let's fund a rail-line but let's also expand the roads for people that want to use them. Ultimately, we, the people, pay for these developments (be it roads, rail, buses, etc) with our taxes and tolls so what right do people have to tell us that we will not be allowed to use the roads? Ultimately, we have to think what works best for us and this is very subjective. Not all people have jobs where they go from point A (home) to point B (work). A lot of people have to travel to a third or fourth point. AND, in most cases the mass transit is not convenient for that.

Remember that the trains here are not like New York City where you can go almost anywhere by train (with some limitations). Of course, the argument can be made that if people use the transit more then more lines will eventually be developed. But what do we do till then? Sacrifice our time and energy? How would you explain that to your boss? Why did it take you 2 hours to get somewhere that's 25 minutes away by car? Good luck with that one.

Anyway, I am not for destroying nature, clearing forests so we can build new super-highways. Still, we do need to expand a little from time to time. It is no secret that this area is growing and with more people we need to expand our infrastructure.

Mass transit is fine for people who have a metro near their homes and one near where they work and they don't need to go anywhere else for work. But, for those who do need to travel, a car is usually more convenient. And, if you're going to forcefully make things inconvenient for them, then guess what? They'll move.

And you think people working in VA and living in MD is bad? Make their lives difficult/inconvenient and they will work in VA and live in VA.

Thats the exact point I am trying to get people to see.

They don't want to see Maryland do better than Virginia when it comes to Business/Economic/Revenue Growth and its very strange how Virginia can continue to get away with building Multi-Highways, Proposing EXPENSIVE Subway Extensions, and building SEVERAL Acres of Office Towers and Upscale retail that are several miles away from DC.

Wheneveer the same is being proposed in Maryland then the so-called Maryland "citizens" would raise bloody hell and the false profit left wing communist extremist try to sabatoge every form of Upscale Development and Highway Improvements in their secret plan to chase off Middle and Upper Class population in Maryland.

Last month there was a HUGE Story about how Maryland's population is losing out to Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Virginia, and Deleware.

People in PG County don't make the incomes that the people in other places do. You're just twisting what I said around. I never said anything about concentrating residential neighborhoods or putting businesses all in one place.

And I'm not discouraging business in other places, but you can't hold other people accountable the success or failures. That's what's happening. All that goes on in these forums is people blaming VA for everything, people bashing VA, it's immature and absurd. The jurisdictions are better off doing what they can do internally to benefits themselves, to think that a place would do something inefficient like blocking others as a primary form of gaining businesses is just stupid.

No, what is stupid is that you actually believe the most of the Bull Shit that you type.

This statement is just ridiculous. Again, enough with the propaganda.

I agree. I don't see how we can blame VA for being competitive fro job growth. I think that some of the consequences of their growth (sprawl) is not good, but I wish MD would act more like VA in allowing more unhindered development. I want MD to aggressive try to get businesses from all over to more into already developed areas to make them denser, subsidies and tax breaks should be given to foster more re-development of badly-used land.

What your saying is the main reason why Maryland is not competing well with Virginia's Business/Economic/Revenue Growth. The problem with getting most Businesses to setup shop in already developed areas in Maryland is because of the saturated NIMBY'ism population. Instead of interrupting already developed areas to start large Businesses/Upscale Development they need to go out to less developed areas just like Virginia and start new Development and Business Growth. Only this time the Residential Growth should be limited.

That is without a doubt the funniest thing you have ever said.

Maybe so but deep down you know its true.

Last year a bunch of angry jealous residence/few lawmakers in Alexandria and Mount Vernon had town hall meetings to express their opposition to the National Harbor, and went as far as making retarded comments about how the lighning around the National Harbor would make visibility difficult for viewing George Washington's Home.

What your saying is the main reason why Maryland is not competing well with Virginia's Business/Economic/Revenue Growth. The problem with getting most Businesses to setup shop in already developed areas in Maryland is because of the saturated NIMBY'ism population. Instead of interrupting already developed areas to start large Businesses/Upscale Development they need to go out to less developed areas just like Virginia and start new Development and Business Growth. Only this time the Residential Growth should be limited.

That is actually right. Just because MD refuses to change doesn't mean it's Virginia's fault. Conspiracy theories are not the cause. Except for how I shot Kennedy.

Maryland lags behind VA due to being too spread out and ofcourse the damn commute as most business still choose N. Va.

But Maryland esp. Silver Spring has shown lots of growth and ofcourse Bethesda/Chevy Chase is still very hot real esate.

So probably after few years MD would be booming and the corridor b/w BWI & NE DC could become next major development zone.

Ft Meade base is there and lots of people are going to move there as other two military bases are closing this year.

People in PG County don't make the incomes that the people in other places do. You're just twisting what I said around. I never said anything about concentrating residential neighborhoods or putting businesses all in one place.

And I'm not discouraging business in other places, but you can't hold other people accountable the success or failures. That's what's happening. All that goes on in these forums is people blaming VA for everything, people bashing VA, it's immature and absurd. The jurisdictions are better off doing what they can do internally to benefits themselves, to think that a place would do something inefficient like blocking others as a primary form of gaining businesses is just stupid.

The median household income for Prince George's County is upwards of $70,000. You're right that they don't make make incomes like other places do, thats because they are well above the national average, 4th or 3rd in the 2nd wealthiest state in the nation and well off enough to hold their own in the D.C. area.

This isn't targeting Va but a statement of reality. This is is what has happened in the past for a long time. This is more so targeting the perception that developers and especially firms have. I'm not sure what I'm "twisting around", the point of my previous post is that a concentration of residential development is not a good thing in the long-term. Contrary to what you and Naterpotater believe the results will not be "good for everybody" thats my whole point. There was nothing in my post that targeted Va, my post did not even mention the place.

The problem is that people like you and Naterpotater don't want to acknowledge the truth. And yes Maryland could do a much better job as well, I have not failed to acknowledge that in my many other posts.

You're the one who is making the area out to seem more distorted than what is true. If anything it's east v. west, not md v. va. PG County doesn't make the incomes that the rest of the area makes, and is not in the top 5 which is what you just wrote. Of course you knew exactly what I meant before. There are plenty of jobs in MD all over the place and more coming, but you keep making it sound as if VA is maliciously taking jobs away simply to screw over MD. Things are fine now, they'll be fine in the future unless something very wrong occurs. You can't blame it on just perception. Part of it you can, why do you think people like to buy Japanese cars so much these days. The quality gap has closed, but people like their reputation and track record. Good credit is also another good thing to have in life. But on the other hand, there are tangible differences between the way that some of the area's jurisdictions do business, and very little of that has to do with sabotaging.

The escalation of this conflict is due to the people like you that are just overly dramatic and exaggerate.

Thats the exact point I am trying to get people to see.

They don't want to see Maryland do better than Virginia when it comes to Business/Economic/Revenue Growth and its very strange how Virginia can continue to get away with building Multi-Highways, Proposing EXPENSIVE Subway Extensions, and building SEVERAL Acres of Office Towers and Upscale retail that are several miles away from DC.

Wheneveer the same is being proposed in Maryland then the so-called Maryland "citizens" would raise bloody hell and the false profit left wing communist extremist try to sabatoge every form of Upscale Development and Highway Improvements in their secret plan to chase off Middle and Upper Class population in Maryland.

Last month there was a HUGE Story about how Maryland's population is losing out to Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Virginia, and Deleware.


I think it's not that they don't want to see Maryland do better than Virginia. I just think a lot of people don't realize that you cannot impose mass transit on people. Also, I have to say that I was very disappointed that O'Malley's administration cut funds from the money kept aside to provide incentives to business to relocate and/or stay in MD. Although I'm not sure if this would happen (because politicians are so damn unpredictable), if MD was able to attract more business and thus more business tax revenue, we would all be paying less in state/local taxes. I don't know about you guys but I think I pay too much.

One last thing, roads and highways are vital not only for commuting to work, etc, but also for the movement of goods. If the roads aren't expanded as the area grows how will people move goods? Carry them on the subway? HRT cargo trains aren't really practical in most cases because they don't go everywhere. That just leaves us with the roads and highways.

You're the one who is making the area out to seem more distorted than what is true. If anything it's east v. west, not md v. va. PG County doesn't make the incomes that the rest of the area makes, and is not in the top 5 which is what you just wrote. Of course you knew exactly what I meant before. There are plenty of jobs in MD all over the place and more coming, but you keep making it sound as if VA is maliciously taking jobs away simply to screw over MD. Things are fine now, they'll be fine in the future unless something very wrong occurs. You can't blame it on just perception. Part of it you can, why do you think people like to buy Japanese cars so much these days. The quality gap has closed, but people like their reputation and track record. Good credit is also another good thing to have in life. But on the other hand, there are tangible differences between the way that some of the area's jurisdictions do business, and very little of that has to do with sabotaging.

The escalation of this conflict is due to the people like you that are just overly dramatic and exaggerate.


So if I'm reading your post correctly you think Prince George's County's income isn't high enough to support some of the high end retail that's in the other surrounding counties? How about all those other counties across the country that are no where near Prince George's median income but get 10x the office and retail development, please explain that? Truth of the matter is that their income is very much high enough to support the aforementioned.

When close to 60% of Prince George's residents have to commute outside of the county, then no, there are not enough high quality jobs in MD and recent reports have shown this anyways. One can say the same thing about Eastern Montgomery and even Northern Montgomery. Especially with vacancies as low as they are in the entire Silver Spring area something isn't right and there should be a lot more office proposals.

Things are not "fine" now and there is still work to be done, you don't see a problem because you only care about Va. While Prince George's is getting a lot development those developments aren't bringing what the county really needs which are high quality office developments. For the size of some of these projects they should be getting upwards of 3 million sq\ft. But firms don't want to move there for whatever reason. It's people like you who believe what happens is "fate" and the current situation has been and will always be this way because it's "righteous" and "deserving". People want to say the same thing about Baltimore "it will forever be a second or third tier city". And please don't try to turn this into a Montgomery vs Prince George's thread, Montgomery has been helping keep jobs in Maryland that would other wise be in Va.

Your not wearing a cloak, we all know you prefer Va so you can stop trying to act like you stand on neutral ground, you're not fooling anybody.

That is actually right. Just because MD refuses to change doesn't mean it's Virginia's fault. Conspiracy theories are not the cause. Except for how I shot Kennedy.

Its no more Virginia's and Left Winmg Extremist Communist's fault for Marylands's failure to attract Business/Economic/Revenue Growth than the Red States supporting the EXPENSIVE War in Iraq.

So if I'm reading your post correctly you think Prince George's County's income isn't high enough to support some of the high end retail that's in the other surrounding counties? How about all those other counties across the country that are no where near Prince George's median income but get 10x the office and retail development, please explain that? Truth of the matter is that their income is very much high enough to support the aforementioned.

When close to 60% of Prince George's residents have to commute outside of the county, then no, there are not enough high quality jobs in MD and recent reports have shown this anyways. One can say the same thing about Eastern Montgomery and even Northern Montgomery. Especially with vacancies as low as they are in the entire Silver Spring area something isn't right and there should be a lot more office proposals.

Things are not "fine" now and there is still work to be done, you don't see a problem because you only care about Va. While Prince George's is getting a lot development those developments aren't bringing what the county really needs which are high quality office developments. For the size of some of these projects they should be getting upwards of 3 million sq\ft. But firms don't want to move there for whatever reason. It's people like you who believe what happens is "fate" and the current situation has been and will always be this way because it's "righteous" and "deserving". People want to say the same thing about Baltimore "it will forever be a second or third tier city". And please don't try to turn this into a Montgomery vs Prince George's thread, Montgomery has been helping keep jobs in Maryland that would other wise be in Va.

Your not wearing a cloak, we all know you prefer Va so you can stop trying to act like you stand on neutral ground, you're not fooling anybody.

What you mean to say is the black community scares off economic development. Yes, it does, everyone knows it. Don't make it sound as if avg. income is the only factor. You're the one simplifying things, pretending as if there aren't sociological barriers.The black community must do better at dealing with the problems that exist on their end, from within w/ community efforts and w/ the government's help, remember it's a two-way street; and things will be better. Things won't be all better b/c racism will exist regardless, but clearing the first, and in this case biggest hurdle, is the key to getting PG County on track.

And that isn't the only issue, if the services in the county can become more efficient w/ more competent and less corrupt people controlling the money, excess spending can be cut or moved and the businesses and citizens can be given more money to help the economy churn. Bad local gov'ts are significant factors to economic development and attracting businesses. Businesses and their employees don't like bad crime and bad schools and bad gov'ts w/ red tape. Simultaneously with other issues being alleviated, if talent can be nurtured from the start, people will succeed despite PG public schools, and they will come back and help their local community. The more help from the gov't and venture capitalists w/ start-ups in this area, the better. But a kernel at least of talent and potential needs to be there. And when it's there, it's a lucrative place to invest money in. And VA is not responsible for all of these issues. PG County is a separate beast from much of the rest of the region w/ many issues. If you don't think things are things are going the way you think they are, some times it requires you to something about it whether it'll take a long time or is really difficult.

What you mean to say is the black community scares off economic development. Yes, it does, everyone knows it. Don't make it sound as if avg. income is the only factor. You're the one simplifying things, pretending as if there aren't sociological barriers.The black community must do better at dealing with the problems that exist on their end, from within w/ community efforts and w/ the government's help, remember it's a two-way street; and things will be better. Things won't be all better b/c racism will exist regardless, but clearing the first, and in this case biggest hurdle, is the key to getting PG County on track.

And that isn't the only issue, if the services in the county can become more efficient w/ more competent and less corrupt people controlling the money, excess spending can be cut or moved and the businesses and citizens can be given more money to help the economy churn. Bad local gov'ts are significant factors to economic development and attracting businesses. Businesses and their employees don't like bad crime and bad schools and bad gov'ts w/ red tape. Simultaneously with other issues being alleviated, if talent can be nurtured from the start, people will succeed despite PG public schools, and they will come back and help their local community. The more help from the gov't and venture capitalists w/ start-ups in this area, the better. But a kernel at least of talent and potential needs to be there. And when it's there, it's a lucrative place to invest money in. And VA is not responsible for all of these issues. PG County is a separate beast from much of the rest of the region w/ many issues. If you don't think things are things are going the way you think they are, some times it requires you to something about it whether it'll take a long time or is really difficult.

Again spewing Maryland/PG hatred with the side of closet racism.

As if the Majority of African American Majority Atlanta and Dekalb County is scaring off Businesses and Economic Development.

^^Go ahead harlem. PG County to a major regional hub, sounds like a great comparison. Coca-Cola, CNN, Delta, the gov't is responsible for all of that, right? PG County in MD to a conservative, business friendly and low regulating Dekalb County in GA, another great comparison. All the black SUBURBS are doing great in Atlanta right? Racist...haha, if you knew who I were, you wouldn't make such an outlandish statement. And you say you say you're a conservative, that's real funny.

^^Go ahead harlem. PG County to a major regional hub, sounds like a great comparison. Coca-Cola, CNN, Delta, the gov't is responsible for all of that, right? PG County in MD to a conservative, business friendly and low regulating Dekalb County in GA, another great comparison. All the black SUBURBS are doing great in Atlanta right? Racist...haha, if you knew who I were, you wouldn't make such an outlandish statement. And you say you say you're a conservative, that's real funny.

Back Peddling again.

Either way it still proves that you are a Maryland/PG hater that blames African Americans for PG County's failure to compete with NOVA's Business/Econmic/Revenue Growth.

Maryland lags behind VA due to being too spread out and ofcourse the damn commute as most business still choose N. Va.

But Maryland esp. Silver Spring has shown lots of growth and ofcourse Bethesda/Chevy Chase is still very hot real esate.

So probably after few years MD would be booming and the corridor b/w BWI & NE DC could become next major development zone.

Ft Meade base is there and lots of people are going to move there as other two military bases are closing this year.

This thread is potentially the most insteresting I've read thus far.

I agree that growth has to do with saturation. With the boom in DC, Virginia siezed many opportunities due to good politics, but also due to availability of free land within close proximity of DC. However, Virginia's saturation has already shown repurcussions (e.g. base realignment and hard-hit real estate market).

Montgomery and PG counties have always been densly populated within a 10 mile radius of the border of DC. I'm sure politics played a major role, but they also simply did not have the space to build massive suburban metroparks without affecting immense areas of pre-existing populations and infrastructure. NIMBYs are more prevalent when back yards are more prevalent. It's a simple correlation.

Therefore, conversations will likely be skewed in the next decade when NoVA is saturated and the NE DC/Bmore corriror takes off. Maybe there will be conversations about the fiscal conservatives being idiotic about promoting development beyond what the current infrastructure could handle while the liberal Maryland counties are raking in the dough. At which time, that unilateral argument would be idiotic. Almost as equally idiotic as suggesting that the current nature of development is merely a reflection of politics.

This thread is potentially the most insteresting I've read thus far.

I agree that growth has to do with saturation. With the boom in DC, Virginia siezed many opportunities due to good politics, but also due to availability of free land within close proximity of DC. However, Virginia's saturation has already shown repurcussions (e.g. base realignment and hard-hit real estate market).

Montgomery and PG counties have always been densly populated within a 10 mile radius of the border of DC. I'm sure politics played a major role, but they also simply did not have the space to build massive suburban metroparks without affecting immense areas of pre-existing populations and infrastructure. NIMBYs are more prevalent when back yards are more prevalent. It's a simple correlation.

Therefore, conversations will likely be skewed in the next decade when NoVA is saturated and the NE DC/Bmore corriror takes off. Maybe there will be conversations about the fiscal conservatives being idiotic about promoting development beyond what the current infrastructure could handle while the liberal Maryland counties are raking in the dough. At which time, that unilateral argument would be idiotic. Almost as equally idiotic as suggesting that the current nature of development is merely a reflection of politics.

Interesting point. The growth in NoVa is getting to a point where the infrastructure can barely keep up. Yes, they are expanding the roads and suggesting special toll roads/lanes and whatnot but who wants to pay extra just to go at a normal pace on highways? I-66 is my least favorite road ever. It is always backed up. So despite all the talk of progress in NoVa, do you guys (people from MD who keep fighting to level the playing field with NoVa) really want MoCo or HoCo to become like NoVa? Do you want 270 to become like 66? If so, good for you. I certainly don't. Yes, MD needs to try harder to get a fairer distribution of the business/commerce in the area. The administration should offer incentives to businesses to relocate and stay in MD. At the same time, let's try to spread the growth around a bit so some areas don't become intolerable like some areas in NoVa and MoCo.

What you mean to say is the black community scares off economic development. Yes, it does, everyone knows it. Don't make it sound as if avg. income is the only factor. You're the one simplifying things, pretending as if there aren't sociological barriers.The black community must do better at dealing with the problems that exist on their end, from within w/ community efforts and w/ the government's help, remember it's a two-way street; and things will be better. Things won't be all better b/c racism will exist regardless, but clearing the first, and in this case biggest hurdle, is the key to getting PG County on track.

And that isn't the only issue, if the services in the county can become more efficient w/ more competent and less corrupt people controlling the money, excess spending can be cut or moved and the businesses and citizens can be given more money to help the economy churn. Bad local gov'ts are significant factors to economic development and attracting businesses. Businesses and their employees don't like bad crime and bad schools and bad gov'ts w/ red tape. Simultaneously with other issues being alleviated, if talent can be nurtured from the start, people will succeed despite PG public schools, and they will come back and help their local community. The more help from the gov't and venture capitalists w/ start-ups in this area, the better. But a kernel at least of talent and potential needs to be there. And when it's there, it's a lucrative place to invest money in. And VA is not responsible for all of these issues. PG County is a separate beast from much of the rest of the region w/ many issues. If you don't think things are things are going the way you think they are, some times it requires you to something about it whether it'll take a long time or is really difficult.

I hear what you're saying but you're shifting too much of the blame to Prince George's County. I can point to corrupt situations in Montgomery and you don't even want to know what I've about Fairfax. Let's not forget D.C. might be the most corrupt in the entire D.C. area.