(walking from platform to platform accepted)

My guess for the longest is Thurso or Wick to Ho Chi Minh City ....

Although you might hitch longer journeys on freight trains, I believe the longest journey you could make in my country is one of 7,351 kilometres, between Mt. Isa, Queensland, and Bunbury, Western Australia, via, Townsville, Brisbane, SYdney, Broken Hill, Port Augusta and Perth.

It's actually a bit longer than that since I've used the highway distances between Mt. Isa & Townsville.

Do you speak of a single journey without changing trains?

That isn't a single journey - it utilises (I am guessing)
- The Inlander (QR Traveltrain) to Townsville
- Cairns Tilt Train or The Sunlander/Queensland Class (QR TravelTrain) to Brisbane
- Brisbane XPT (CountryLink) to Sydney
- Indian Pacific (Great Southern Railway) to Perth via Adelaide
- The Australind (TransWA) to Bunbury

You could make it even longer by travelling on the Melbourn XPT and the Overland between Sydney and Adelaide.

The longest single journey in Australia is the I-Pac, about 4300-4400km from Sydney to Perth and involves the longest completely flat and straight stretch of track in the world, about 500km in length on the Nullarbor Plain.

Tha Ghan is about 3000km in length between Adelaide and Darwin.

Other long journeys are the various CountryLink and QR coastal routes, most of which would be at or exceed 1,000km.

That isn't a single journey - it utilises (I am guessing)
- The Inlander (QR Traveltrain) to Townsville
- Cairns Tilt Train or The Sunlander/Queensland Class (QR TravelTrain) to Brisbane
- Brisbane XPT (CountryLink) to Sydney
- Indian Pacific (Great Southern Railway) to Perth via Adelaide
- The Australind (TransWA) to Bunbury

You could make it even longer by travelling on the Melbourn XPT and the Overland between Sydney and Adelaide.

The longest single journey in Australia is the I-Pac, about 4300-4400km from Sydney to Perth and involves the longest completely flat and straight stretch of track in the world, about 500km in length on the Nullarbor Plain.

Tha Ghan is about 3000km in length between Adelaide and Darwin.

Other long journeys are the various CountryLink and QR coastal routes, most of which would be at or exceed 1,000km.

well, I was thinking of the longest journey- by the shortest route- with as many changes as necessary. To get from Thurso Scotland to Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam I'd guess I'd have to change trains in Edinburgh, London maybe, Paris,
Moscow, Beijing and Hanoi at least.

It seems there is nor rail track through the Sinai Peninsula, so prolly from western europe to eastern asia is the longest continous rail journey. Maybe they should build that connection so one can travel from Cape Town to Vladivostok.

Longest single journey you'll find in the Netherlands is Heerlen to Schagen, at 274 km using roadway distances.
Obviously that's no where near the longest journey you can make on a single train.

According to Wikipedia's Trains-Siberian Railway article:

The main route, the Trans-Siberian, runs from Moscow to Vladivostok via southern Siberia and was built between 1891 and 1916. It is often associated with the main Russian train that connects these two cities. At 9,288 kilometres (5,772 miles), spanning 8 time zones and taking about 7 days to complete its journey, it is the third longest single continuous service in the world, after the Donetsk-Vladivostok and Moscow-Pyongyang services, both of which follow the Trans-Siberian.

I would go for the Transsib - but probably it's only for touristic traffic as the one through Canada.

The transsib is not only for touristic traffic, if that's what you wanne say Kuesel.

OK, this is what I was thinking here ... suppose you grabbed a little railway trolley and went as far as you possibly could down the line ... how far could you go? you're allowed to switch axles at a break of gauge. You can also shift your trolley from one track to an adjoining track.

My guess:


Thurso (Scotland) to Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) Vietnam ... at least 15,000 km
Mt. Isa Queensland to Geraldton Western Australia: close to 8,000 km
Hay River Canada to Tizimin (via Merida), Yucatan, Mexico. Maybe further, probably not.
Capetown, South Africa, to Mahagi Port, Lake Albert, Uganda.
Maraba, Para, Brazil, to Esquel, Chubut, Patagonia, Argentina.
Chittagong, Bangladesh, to Zahedran, Iran. (it seems that this will be connected through Kurzan and Tehran to Scutari, Turkey ... and through Russia to Thurso, Scotland!)


unfortunately, accurate measurements are hard to come by ...

the Trains-Canada Raillink, 1 ticket, 1 train, 6400km (4000 miles).

the Trains-Canada Raillink, 1 ticket, 1 train, 6400km (4000 miles).

According to my rail atlas:

Capetown- Pretoria: 999 km
New Delhi-Mumbai: 1384 km
Chicago- Los Angeles: 3577 km
Sydney- Perth: 3938 km
Montreal- Vancouver: 4680 km
Moscow-Vladlivostok "almost" 10,000 km

but see my comments above.

Inside Spain, the longest train journey is about 1,400 km. and it takes 10-12 hours.
;)

^^ ¿Estrella Galicia?

does a subway loop count? it is a continuous journey :lol:

does a subway loop count? it is a continuous journey :lol:

Yeah I was going to be a smartarse and say London's Circle Line, but the fact it shuts down for 4 hours a night pisses on that claim... Oh well!

^^ ¿Estrella Galicia?
Estrella Galicia takes longer: 15 or 16 hours, but I think the distance is shorter: 1200-1300 kms.
:dunno:

Hmm ... perhaps my command of English is not what I thought it was.

Thurso Scotland to Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam ... the longest journey, versus travelling endlessly on a city subway loop? Hay River Canada to Merida Mexico? Mt Isa to Geraldton? Perhaps the term " longest" means something different to me.

well, I was thinking of the longest journey- by the shortest route- with as many changes as necessary. To get from Thurso Scotland to Ho Chi Minh City Vietnam I'd guess I'd have to change trains in Edinburgh, London maybe, Paris,
Moscow, Beijing and Hanoi at least.

You should play around with Germany's National Rail web site. Naturally, you would expect to be able to check train time tables in Germany, but their site is so good, you can almost pick any destination around the world you could get to "from Germany" by train.

Seriously. The site has an English page, so you can easily do your own searches, but keep in mind that German place names may differ from the English.

I done a quick search for tomorrow morning from Thurso, Scotland to Beijing (or Peking as the Germans still call it) and got this: Link (http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?ld=212.26&seqnr=3&ident=7i.01338226.1170443881&guiVCtrl_connection_detailsOut_add_C2-0#cis_C2-0)

Travelling time 8.8days and 6 changes.

try starting at http://www.db.de/site/bahn/en/start.html this is the English page at www.db.de

I'm sure with a bit of searching, you could find some distance longer. Also, keep in mind that www.db.de would probably try to find the shortest or quickest route. Of cause, you really good find a much longer one if you really wanted to ;O)

There used to be a single rail line from Lisboa to Hanoi!
So you could travel between Portugal and Vietnam without changing train.

And I think, in terms of this thread, you could hop on a train in Lulea, Sweden and end up in Hanoi Vietnam.....
That would be longer than Thorso-Hanoi I think?

There used to be a single rail line from Lisboa to Hanoi!
So you could travel between Portugal and Vietnam without changing train.

This is impossible!!
:nono:
Portugal and Spain gauge is wider than the rest of Europe gauge!
;)

^^ some coaches and some freight wagons can change boogies at the border. That is done every day for freight trains between Spain and France. Anyway it is slow, a train can wait also 10 to 15 hours at the border, also for customs checks, that's way Spain is planning to convert all its network to the standard gauge.

Between western Europe and the ex-URSS nework, couplers must also be changed (chain and automatic, respectively).

I have read of a direct connection Madrid-Moscow, where bogies were replaced between Spain and France (1664==>1435) and somewhere between Poland and Lithuania or Belasu (1435==>1520).

This is impossible!!
:nono:
Portugal and Spain gauge is wider than the rest of Europe gauge!
;)

There is a solution for that problem, originally meant for border between Poland and former Soviet countries (1435 / 1520mm) , it is called SUW2000 and is already working betweeen Poland and Lithuania. Great advantage is that you don't have to lift cars and operation lasts only minutes. Short description ( I found only in German and Polish, thought that German is better ) http://www.ina.de/content.ina.de/de/branches/pt_r/rail_vehicles/applications_4/pulled_cars/freight_cars/suw_2000_track_gauge_changing_system/SUW_2000_track_gauge_changing_system.jsp
Introduction of this system on every border with gauge change would make transit much quicker and more comfortable :)

I think it's from Simes (Portugal) to Wladivostok (Russia).
In the futur, there will be a tunnel or a bridge between Europe and Africa: the longest journey will be Capetown (South Africa) - Wladivostok (Russia)

There is a solution for that problem, originally meant for border between Poland and former Soviet countries (1435 / 1520mm) , it is called SUW2000 and is already working betweeen Poland and Lithuania. Great advantage is that you don't have to lift cars and operation lasts only minutes. Short description ( I found only in German and Polish, thought that German is better ) http://www.ina.de/content.ina.de/de/branches/pt_r/rail_vehicles/applications_4/pulled_cars/freight_cars/suw_2000_track_gauge_changing_system/SUW_2000_track_gauge_changing_system.jsp
Introduction of this system on every border with gauge change would make transit much quicker and more comfortable :)


Variable gauge axes, but, for Spain and Portugal, it would be better to convert the whole network ("only" 15.000 km) to the standard gauge.

the longest journey will be Capetown (South Africa) - Wladivostok (Russia)

In Africa there isn't a rail network but only hundreds of unconnected lines built with dozen of differents standards. But I think there is a nearly-continuous link between Cape Town and Cairo.

Pfft, you all talk about breaks of gauges on national borders. Australian states have different railway gauges. Luckily there's a separate national network that was built in the 60s.

In Africa there isn't a rail network but only hundreds of unconnected lines built with dozen of differents standards. But I think there is a nearly-continuous link between Cape Town and Cairo.
The problem in Africa is that railway lines were build form the coast to the inlands so there aren't much railways between seperate countries. There is no railway from Egypt to Sudan, you can take the railway to the Aswan dam, but you have to continue by boat. Further south there are more gaps and you can't go in a direct line, going inland and to coast several times. And were there are railways on the map it doesn't mean that they are in service, there were (are) enough wars that have damaged railway lines and lack of maintenance is also a big problem.

So Europe - Asia is the biggest continuous link right now. I think the longest commercial passenger service is from Moscow to Beijing (http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/dn?ld=212.57&seqnr=6&ident=9x.02053357.1170602629&OK#focus).

There used to be a single rail line from Lisboa to Hanoi!
So you could travel between Portugal and Vietnam without changing train.

And I think, in terms of this thread, you could hop on a train in Lulea, Sweden and end up in Hanoi Vietnam.....
That would be longer than Thorso-Hanoi I think?

You could never do this without changing trains, but I sense we are talking about the same thing ... only using certain English words differently.

My guess is that Lagos, Portugal, id probably further from Hanoi by rail than Thurso, Scotland is. Narvik, norway, looks more distant than Lulea, Sweden, but you could take a short-cut through Finland and St. Petersberg.

There was a railway from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) ... don't know if it's still working.

My rail atlas suggest you can travel from Capetown thus:

Capetown-Kimberely-Bulawayo(Zimbawe)-Victoria Falls-Lusaka(Zambia)-'Dar-es-Salam'(Tanzania)-Moshi-Voi(Kenya)-Nairobi-Mbale(Uganda)-Murchison Falls.

Maps on the internet suggest that the Iranians are bridging the gap between Yazd, Kerman, & Zahedan and hence there will be a continuous line (albeit with break of gauge) from Istanbul or Europe via Russia and Armenia to Chittagong, Bangladesh.

^^
You cant cross the Bosporus by train...
But with the future metro line....

^^ Are there rail ferry?

The Marmaray will be a railway, not a metro, so there will be a fixed rail link.

^^ some coaches and some freight wagons can change boogies at the border. That is done every day for freight trains between Spain and France. Anyway it is slow, a train can wait also 10 to 15 hours at the border, also for customs checks, that's way Spain is planning to convert all its network to the standard gauge.
Between western Europe and the ex-URSS nework, couplers must also be changed (chain and automatic, respectively).

I have read of a direct connection Madrid-Moscow, where bogies were replaced between Spain and France (1664==>1435) and somewhere between Poland and Lithuania or Belasu (1435==>1520).


It's actually quite fast, considering. Years ago I took a night train from Paris to Barcelona. It had adjustable boogies which changed at the Border. This took approx 30minutes from memory. It was hardly noticable, just a longer wait than a normal stop. It was also around 5am in the morning when many passengers were happily asleep in their beds.

There is a solution for that problem, originally meant for border between Poland and former Soviet countries (1435 / 1520mm) , it is called SUW2000 and is already working betweeen Poland and Lithuania. Great advantage is that you don't have to lift cars and operation lasts only minutes. Short description ( I found only in German and Polish, thought that German is better ) http://www.ina.de/content.ina.de/de/branches/pt_r/rail_vehicles/applications_4/pulled_cars/freight_cars/suw_2000_track_gauge_changing_system/SUW_2000_track_gauge_changing_system.jsp
Introduction of this system on every border with gauge change would make transit much quicker and more comfortable :)

Spain has its own gauge-changing system developed by Talgo (http://www.talgo.es/htm/English/Productos/productosancho01.htm). It's used on the border with France and also to allow trains to move between standard-gauge high-speed lines and the old broad-gauge network. Talgo also says that its system has been tested in Russia and Sweden.

P.S. The page you linked to is available in English (http://www.ina.de/content.ina.de/en/branches/pt_r/rail_vehicles/applications_4/pulled_cars/freight_cars/suw_2000_track_gauge_changing_system/SUW_2000_track_gauge_changing_system.jsp?).

It's actually quite fast, considering. Years ago I took a night train from Paris to Barcelona. It had adjustable boogies which changed at the Border. This took approx 30minutes from memory. It was hardly noticable, just a longer wait than a normal stop. It was also around 5am in the morning when many passengers were happily asleep in their beds.
^^New Spanish high speed train ALViA can change boogies in 6-9 minutes!
;)
Now, they go from Barcelona to Madrid in 3h.55min. But in December 2007: 2h.15min.!!
:happy:

It's actually quite fast, considering. Years ago I took a night train from Paris to Barcelona. It had adjustable boogies which changed at the Border. This took approx 30minutes from memory. It was hardly noticable, just a longer wait than a normal stop. It was also around 5am in the morning when many passengers were happily asleep in their beds.

With variable gauge axes, change can be done in a few minutes.

But this is different to change the bogies with fixes wheels. Freight wagons must be "elevated", their broad gauge bogies removed. Then, standard gauge bogies must be connected.

See http://bueker.net/trainspotting/stations.php , the three pages about border stations between France and Spain.

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/pictures/cerbere_transfesa-02_2004xxxx.jpg

^^
You cant cross the Bosporus by train...
But with the future metro line....

sorry, i meant Uskuda, or Scutari or whatever: which my atlas still calls "Istanbul".

^^New Spanish high speed train ALViA can change boogies in 6-9 minutes!
;)
Now, they go from Barcelona to Madrid in 3h.55min. But in December 2007: 2h.15min.!!
:happy:

Alvia spanish HS trains have adjustable bogies, so they don't change them to pass from broad to standard gauge tracks or viceversa. Trains change their gauge without stopping, but passing slowly (20 km/h) through a change set.

The system to do it is called BRAVA, developed by CAF, and consists on wheel's displacement along the axles, and locking them in the position for the selected gauge. One similar procedure is followed for Talgo Trains.

Actually there is not a reliable way to change gauge of freight trains in Spain, except changing axles or bogies in border stations.

Alvia spanish HS trains have adjustable bogies, so they don't change them to pass from broad to standard gauge tracks or viceversa. Trains change their gauge without stopping, but passing slowly (20 km/h) through a change set.

The system to do it is called BRAVA, developed by CAF, and consists on wheel's displacement along the axles, and locking them in the position for the selected gauge. One similar procedure is followed for Talgo Trains.

Actually there is not a reliable way to change gauge of freight trains in Spain, except changing axles or bogies in border stations.

I wonder if anyone has heard of this in Australia.

I wonder if anyone has heard of this in Australia.

Not much point at the moment, all major cities are linked by standard gauge. Maybe if we had it in the 60's we could have made better progress.

QR's North Coast Line is the only big gap now but the Queensland network is largely separate north of the Brisbane Intermodal Terminal at Acacia Ridge.

Not much point at the moment, all major cities are linked by standard gauge. Maybe if we had it in the 60's we could have made better progress.

QR's North Coast Line is the only big gap now but the Queensland network is largely separate north of the Brisbane Intermodal Terminal at Acacia Ridge.

You have a point, but having travelled to Cairns/ Kuranda ...

Sooner or later Tennant Creek will be connected to the East Coast .... that's when the trouble starts.

According to my rail atlas:

New Delhi-Mumbai: 1384 km

but see my comments above.

There are train journeys longer than the one quoted above in India. New Delhi - Chennai: 2010 km. Guwahati - Trivandrum: 2500 + km. You don't have to switch trains.

Wouldn't The Ghan between Adelaide & Darwin qualify?

^^ perhaps, in particular, my use of the word "continuous" has been misunderstood.

Let me put it this way ...

There exists, on this planet, two points between which it is possible to travel by rail, which are farther apart, as measured along the line travelled, than any other points between which you could likewise travel. "Travel by rail" means what you would normally expect, but you might get off one train and board another, provided you did not leave the station premises. Freight train, passenger train? I don't mind.

So ... I suspect the longest "continuous" journey is between somewhere in north-western Europe and somewhere in south-east Asia.

The western end of this 'longest continuous route" is perhaps in Scotland (at Thurso or Wick), maybe in Norway (at Narvik) or maybe in Spain or Portugal. This is a matter of measurement.

The eastern end is where? Vietnam? Singaore? Eventually.

There exist nine other pairs of points ...

There are other lengthy routes isolated from or partly connected to the above. In my country, Mt. Isa to Geraldton or Mt. Isa to Darwin is about as far as you can go. I've travelled over 3,600 km from here by rail; from Mt. Isa you can travel over 8,000 km. Sure, you'll have to change trains- and gauges- a few times.


Similar situations? North America, South America, Africa and South Asia.

Do you permit the use of Subway/Metro/Underground to cross larges cities such as Moscow, Paris or London?

The western end of this 'longest continuous route" is perhaps in Scotland (at Thurso or Wick), maybe in Norway (at Narvik) or maybe in Spain or Portugal. This is a matter of measurement.

I think you cannot travel by train from Norway or Sweden to Finland. I'm not sure of this but I can imagin that in northern Scandinavia there's not much demand for passenger service anyway. I'm looking for detailed maps but perhaps local under-used lines will not be shown. Is there any Scandinavian who knows more?

On this map there's no railroad between Sweden and Finland. The blue line is a busline.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2134/scanrailmapnorthcx4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And I think between Finland and Russia there must be no railroads either. So I suppose we have to start in Scotland or in Iberia.

http://www.scantours.com/Maps/Scanrail_Map_of_Scandinavia.htm

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_scandinavian-peninsulas.php

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_finland.php

A railway link seems to exist, but only for freight trains.

Between Finland and Russia there are also passenger trains. Both use 1520/1524 mm gauge.

^^ Very cool site! You are right; it seems to be possible to travel from norway to China by rail.

It is possible.

Recently a freight service China-Russia-Europe has been created. I think there are 2 trains each month for testing purposes. Thus it is possible to go to Lisbon to somewhere in China changing gauge 3 times.

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_scandinavian-peninsulas.php

http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps_finland.php

A railway link seems to exist, but only for freight trains.

Between Finland and Russia there are also passenger trains. Both use 1520/1524 mm gauge.

My rail atlas certainly shows such a link. Whether it's still there, and whether there is any passenger service is another matter.

The line runs around the "top" of the Gulf of Bothnia, between Sweden & Finland. I've just had cataract surgery, been converted from short-sighted to long-sighted, and I'm hard pressed to read fine text at the moment ... but it runs fron Oulu to just north of Lu (?)lea ?

Do you permit the use of Subway/Metro/Underground to cross larges cities such as Moscow, Paris or London?

Certainly!

I'd assume such terminals are connected by surface rail, anyway.

Yes. From Oulu to Lautiosaari is electrified (25 kV 50 Hz), then to Haparanda without electrification. The line has commercial passenger service. Then, from Harapanda to Boden (north of Lulea) there is a freight-only diesel line. At Harapanda there is the "break-of-gauge". All railway lines in this region are single-track.

I hope when the Vietnam-Cambodia-Thailand railways is completed, then the furthest destination could be SIngapore.

So ... the question is ... which is further from Saigon/ Ho Chi Minh city by rail ...


Bodo, Norway?
Bergen, Norway?
Stavenger, Norway?
Thurso, Scotland?
Wick, Scotland?
Lisbon, Portugal?


(I'd hoped by now someone would hop in and tell me the exact distances!)

Second Prize:

Grootfontein Nambia to somewhere in Uganda?

Third Prize:

Near Cancun, Mexico, to somewhere in Canada (Halifax or on the Great Slave Lake).

Fourth Prize:

Patagonia to ... The Amazon?

Fifth Prize:

Mt. Isa (Queensland) to Darwin (or Geraldton)

Wouldn't the trip from Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada be in there some where? That's a greater distance than the Atlantic Ocean is wide. It is one ticket on VIA Rail on 'The Ocean' to Montreal where you transfer to a different train destined for Toronto. There, transfer to 'the Canadian' which takes you all the way to the Pacific. It used to be possible to by-pass Toronto and travel directly west from Montreal, but this service called 'the Super Continental' was abolished in 1990. Very sad.

If we are talking continuous on the same train, then Toronto to Vancouver surely is still farther than the Namibia - Uganda trip. It is 4,452 km and takes 3 days and 3 nights to complete.

The second place winner seems really odd if you look at a map. Namibia and Uganda are fairly close to each other compared to Halifax - Vancouver, or Toronto - Vancouver. The only way it is possibly farther is if the train track detours all over southern Africa making the trip 5 times longer than it should be.

Mt Isa to Darwin is also a massive U-shaped trip, detouring via Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Alice Springs.

That makes alot of sense for Australia. I imagine no one is going to do this trip unless they are sight seeing. How many kilometres is it? It may well be longer than the trip from Atlantic to Pacific in Canada. The Canadian rail journey is 6300 km.

Mt Isa to Darwin is also a massive U-shaped trip, detouring via Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Alice Springs.

No need to travel through Melbourne to make this trip!

Miami to Seattle would be more than 4,000 miles via Amtrak. In theory, it's only ~3660 miles by car, but due to the way the train would have to go (Miami to New York, New York to Chicago, Chicago to Seattle) would add at least another 500 miles... maybe more. Sadly, for what it would cost to make the trip with a private room ($1,400, ~3 day trip), you could fly from Miami to London, spend the weekend partying and staying at an expensive hotel, then fly from London to Seattle... and end up spending less money & beating the train by a few hours. But still, it would be a fairly cool trip. I'd love to at least do Chicago->San Francisco or Chicago -> Seattle someday.

No need to travel through Melbourne to make this trip!

It makes the detour longer :P

[LIST=1]
Thurso (Scotland) to Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) Vietnam ... at least 15,000 km
.


There's railway route between Singapore and Bangkok, Hatyai and Kanchanaburi

Using europan train timatable system (include parts of asia) i get these:

Vila Real Santo Antonio
Faro(P)
Lisboa Oriente
Hendaye
Lille Europe
Bruxelles-Midi
Köln Hbf
Warszawa Wschodnia
Brest Central
Minsk(BY)

58 h. 58 min, 4600 km

Minsk(BY)
Nowoalekseewka
Taiga
Ulan-Ude Pass
Djida
Bejing

230 h. 52 min, 9714 km

chinese timetalbe as far i can understand:

Bejing
Kunming

38 h. 40 min 3163 km

form vietnamese timetable:

Bejing
Hanoi

39 h. 54 min 2967 km

Hanoi
Saigon

41h 1762 km

there are, in fact, many trains on the line between Helsinki and Saint- Petersburg in Russia, and also between sweden and finland. you can see these lines if you zoom in on the maps here: http://www.map24.be

I think you cannot travel by train from Norway or Sweden to Finland. I'm not sure of this but I can imagin that in northern Scandinavia there's not much demand for passenger service anyway. I'm looking for detailed maps but perhaps local under-used lines will not be shown. Is there any Scandinavian who knows more?

On this map there's no railroad between Sweden and Finland. The blue line is a busline.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2134/scanrailmapnorthcx4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And I think between Finland and Russia there must be no railroads either. So I suppose we have to start in Scotland or in Iberia.

http://www.scantours.com/Maps/Scanrail_Map_of_Scandinavia.htm

The Original Orient Express route must have been one of the longest continous train Jouneys.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Orient-express_histoire.png

Orient Express leaving London

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/96467894_060fd53208_b.jpg

Interior

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/4/4098766_c8e6e328f6_o.jpg

Btw Seat 61 has some great info on Train Journeys Worldwide
including the Orient Express.

Website - http://www.seat61.com/index.html

Well the longest I've travelled by train was from Madrid to Paris on a Spanish Talgo overnight train, and from Berlin to Paris on a German Nachtzug (night train). Oh, also, from Milan to Paris on some Italian train. All were direct, no transfers, and only the German Nachtzug made some stops along the way.

^^^ I hope to one day travel on the Orient Express. Wow, quelle classe!

Cheesh, this all reminds me of a couple of geezers outside Christ Church Cathedral smack downtown here on Sainte-Catherine a few weekends ago. I asked one of the pair there, at their little table curbside with its large placards, what was useful about bridging the Bering Strait, in English. English being his first language as well, I remember rebutting his reply (he basically said it would be a good thing -- hmphh), telling him that he didn't understand my question.

Wow, passionate about bridging the Bering Strait, eh? We must be more American than I thought!

My longest train journey was Toronto to Jasper. Our train was 27 hours late. Already three hours late on our second evening and with only 100Km left to travel to Winnipeg, it had to travel back 900Km due to some rock slide. We were exceptionally fortunate coz the next morning we awoke to our train hugging the western end of gorgeous Lake Superior's North Shore for several hours. I understand that whole stretch is still dedicated to freight traffic and -- psst! -- double-tracked.

I guess I could say all the way to Vancouver, coz we took a Greyhound that was driven by some cowboy like a bat out of hell hugging those chasms cliffside from Jasper to Banff, whereat we picked up a paralleling westbound transcontinental to the terminus.

Even after snuggling right up against the Rockies and BC's mountain ranges, by far Lake Superior offered the most rewarding views -- we were very lucky, such that being late in life has turned out to have seldom been any bother to me.

Now I remember! We were so late getting to Winnipeg; where the parelleling transcontinentals met and swapped their rear ends with one another; that we missed the second, daily, paralleling train; and so opted to train into the northerly resort of Japser instead of Banff.

(Seattle to LA {and back} was cheesy, cheesy, cheesy! I took to drinking on those ones on my way to and from El Paso, I did. :scouserd: )

The longest continuous train ride I ever did was from Brussels to Ljubljana in Slovenia on the 'Tauern-express'. The train continued to Athens, Greece. It took me 20 hours. This was about 1400 km, I think. This was 25 years ago, I don't think this train still exists.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/596/tauernexpressaz2.jpg

Tauern express in 1982 © www.hklnet.de.

^^ some coaches and some freight wagons can change boogies at the border. That is done every day for freight trains between Spain and France. Anyway it is slow, a train can wait also 10 to 15 hours at the border, also for customs checks, that's way Spain is planning to convert all its network to the standard gauge.

Between western Europe and the ex-URSS nework, couplers must also be changed (chain and automatic, respectively).

I have read of a direct connection Madrid-Moscow, where bogies were replaced between Spain and France (1664==>1435) and somewhere between Poland and Lithuania or Belasu (1435==>1520).
The tough part regarding Russia's railroads is that the gauge difference between them (1520 mm) and 'standard' gauge (1435 mm) was set as such by the Czars to make it as difficult as possible for invading armies to use their railroads. The difference was large enough to prevent direct running between them but too small to allow laying a third rail to easily create dual-gauge track.

I'm interested in that item about Spain planning to regauge its track to standard gauge. Is there any set timeline for that?

Also (and very interesting, too), from what I am aware of, China's railroads are 100% compatible with those of North America (Canada, Mexico, USA). That is why I am thinking that if a direct North America-Asia rail link is ever built (under the Bering Straits), it would likely all be built to such gauge and equipment standards. I am also aware of ongoing plans to build a standard-gauge railroad between China and western Europe, allowing China-Europe commerce to go direct rather than transiting North America (ship -> rail across USA and/or Canada -> ship).

That said and I have not checked, but how long is Amtrak's Sunset Limited route (Florida <-> Los Angeles, CA)?

Mike

The tough part regarding Russia's railroads is that the gauge difference between them (1520 mm) and 'standard' gauge (1435 mm) was set as such by the Czars to make it as difficult as possible for invading armies to use their railroads. The difference was large enough to prevent direct running between them but too small to allow laying a third rail to easily create dual-gauge track.

I don't think so. Like in Spain and Ireland, I think it that the decision to use a 1520 mm gauge was simply random.

For example the Irish 1600 mm gauge is simply (about) (1435+1575+1880)/3=1600 mm. 1435, 1575 and 1880 were the gauges used by the first three Irish railroads.

My longest was the 'Eastern & Oriental Express' from Singapore to Bangkok 2 years ago... absolutely amazing. 3 days / 2 nights stopping at Johor Bahru (immigration), Kuala Lumpur (brief pause), Butterworth (day trip to Georgetown / Penang), Kanchanburi (Bridge over River Kwai / Death Railway Museum / War Cemetary), and ending at Bangkok Huampalong (sp?) station.

I might do a photo thread of it if I can be arsed...

Orient Express leaving London

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/96467894_060fd53208_b.jpg


Sorry to be a pedant, but that must be approaching London, as the train is crossing the Thames South to North

Good to see this thread is still alive and kicking, even if it has strayed from the original point ... which was, what is the longest distance you can travel from somewhere on earth, by rail, changing trains if you wish, and crossing platforms, but still continuing by rail?

The longest trips I've made on a train involved two nights on the train in the first instance, and three in the second: from Melbourne, Victoria, to Alice Springs, Northern Territory, and Cairns, Queensland, respectively.

Yes, there were changes of gauge, and changes of train. But by the time we got to Cairns, I think my daughter realized the size of the country she lived in, far moreso than from any flight by plane.

Good to see this thread is still alive and kicking, even if it has strayed from the original point ... which was, what is the longest distance you can travel from somewhere on earth, by rail, changing trains if you wish, and crossing platforms, but still continuing by rail?

The longest trips I've made on a train involved two nights on the train in the first instance, and three in the second: from Melbourne, Victoria, to Alice Springs, Northern Territory, and Cairns, Queensland, respectively.

Yes, there were changes of gauge, and changes of train. But by the time we got to Cairns, I think my daughter realized the size of the country she lived in, far moreso than from any flight by plane.
One-way, with transfers, I'd say somewhere in Portugal or southwest Spain <-> Vladivostok.

OTOH, you can take a 'lap of the USA' NYC->NYC by Amtrak.

Mike

One-way, with transfers, I'd say somewhere in Portugal or southwest Spain <-> Vladivostok.

OTOH, you can take a 'lap of the USA' NYC->NYC by Amtrak.

Mike

I would have thought Hanoi was further from Portugal than Vladivostok: further back in the thread, Norway & Scotland were also candidates for the western end of the trip.

The longest continuous train ride I ever did was from Brussels to Ljubljana in Slovenia on the 'Tauern-express'. The train continued to Athens, Greece. It took me 20 hours. This was about 1400 km, I think. This was 25 years ago, I don't think this train still exists.Definitely not, I didn't even know it had existed. The farthest you can now get from Ljubljana in the direction Brussels without changing train, is Munich (or Zurich, but Munich is more suitable, I guess), and Ljubljana is also the north-western terminus of the train coming from Thessaloniki. There was a direct train Ljubljana-Athens in the summer of 2005.



Using europan train timatable system (include parts of asia) i get these:

Vila Real Santo Antonio
Faro(P)
Lisboa Oriente
Hendaye
Lille Europe
Bruxelles-Midi
Köln Hbf
Warszawa Wschodnia
Brest Central
Minsk(BY)

58 h. 58 min, 4600 km

Minsk(BY)
Nowoalekseewka
Taiga
Ulan-Ude Pass
Djida
Bejing

230 h. 52 min, 9714 km

chinese timetalbe as far i can understand:

Bejing
Kunming

38 h. 40 min 3163 km

form vietnamese timetable:

Bejing
Hanoi

39 h. 54 min 2967 km

Hanoi
Saigon

41h 1762 kmWhere did you get the distances??? It's so hard or impossible to get rail distances!

Definitely not, I didn't even know it had existed. The farthest you can now get from Ljubljana in the direction Brussels without changing train, is Munich (or Zurich, but Munich is more suitable, I guess), and Ljubljana is also the north-western terminus of the train coming from Thessaloniki. There was a direct train Ljubljana-Athens in the summer of 2005.


Travelling by train was cheaper in those days than by airplain. I know of some international trains who passed in Brussels and Belgium. There was Ostend-Athens, Ostend-Moscou, Paris-Copenhagen (I think it still exists), Amsterdam-Paris, Ostend-Milano... At the time the Brits came to Ostend by ferry and continued their journey by train... so Ostend was an important international station.
I took the train to Moscou several times (until Berlin). They had these nice Soviet coupés. I you gave the (russian) gard some german marks he would give you a separate room (for 1 person!) with washing corner and free russian sigarettes. This train stopt for a very long time at the border with East-Germany!

Where did you get the distances??? It's so hard or impossible to get rail distances!

From european timetable system. System itself provides distances informations, but only a very few web implementations does it also. For example those Czech (http://jizdnirady.idnes.cz/connform.asp?tt=a&cl=E5&p=MF

Anyway, part of my route was russian-chinese Moscow-Beijing train, with its 6661 km route http://jizdnirady.idnes.cz/Route.asp?cl=E5&tt=1&i=3704&c=3&s1=27602&s2=34338&p=MF.

But there are longer routes, 8842 km Kharkiv - Vladivostok train for example http://jizdnirady.idnes.cz/Route.asp?cl=E5&tt=1&i=12800&c=4&s1=27602&s2=49546&p=MF

Note: i am not sure, if the direct train links will work

^ Thanks!

Thanks jkjkjk, thats a really good site.
I've just worked out my longest train journey, Bejing to London is 14266km. It took 191 hours, but thankfully I stopped at a few placed along the way.

Tohoku Shinkansen, Tokaido Shinkansen, Sanyo Shinkansen, Kyushu Shinkansen are one route, but different in a company. The transfer is not necessary, too. By total, it is 1,771.51 kilometers.

Touhoku shinkansen 535.3km
Toukaidou shinkansen 552.6km
Sanyou shinkansen 553.7km
Kyusyu shinkansen 129.970km
total 1,771.51km

-----------------------------------------------------------------

No-one seems to understand what this thread was originally about, so I'll give up too ...

Here's the longest (or 2nd longest) rail trip you can make by regularly scheduled passenger services in Australia: it's about 8,000 km.

6 am Wednesday: you get on the "Australind" in Bunbury, Western Australia.

8:30 am: you arrive at Perth, the WA Capital, 205 km north. Twiddle your fingers for a couple of hours ...

11:55 am: depart on the "Indian Pacific". A long haul, 4353 km. Three nights on the train before you arrive in Sydney, 10:15 am Saturday.

But they have a piano and a bar ... and a stopover, for an hour or two, wherever it's interesting. A really good trip.

16:20 Saturday: depart for Brisbane on the XPT. Your fourth night on the train!

6:30 am Sunday: arrive Roma Street Brisbane. Probably the sun is just rising. (I have actually done this bit myself). You have travelled about 5,500 km from your original station: there is a train leaving in just over two hours, but it won't connect to your eventual destination. Will you wait in Beautiful Brisbane, or jump on the train to Tropical Townsville, and do the same thing there?
Either way, you spent 24 hours- and another night- on "The Queenslander". And two nights in a steamy Queensland den of vice. (Actually you could have spent this time in Sydney instead )


14:00 Thursday ... the Inlander pulls out for Mt. Isa, about 8,000 km from Bunbury by the most direct route

11:05 Friday: well here you are in Mt. Isa, 8000 km (my estimate is actually 7772) by rail from Bunbury, and six nights on four trains: and two in a cheap hotel. Actually you're rather closer to Bunbury than where you were four nights back ...

.

^^Not bad!
:eek2:

Using europan train timatable system (include parts of asia) i get these:

Vila Real Santo Antonio
Faro(P)
Lisboa Oriente
Hendaye
Lille Europe
Bruxelles-Midi
Köln Hbf
Warszawa Wschodnia
Brest Central
Minsk(BY)

58 h. 58 min, 4600 km

Minsk(BY)
Nowoalekseewka
Taiga
Ulan-Ude Pass
Djida
Bejing

230 h. 52 min, 9714 km

chinese timetalbe as far i can understand:

Bejing
Kunming

38 h. 40 min 3163 km

form vietnamese timetable:

Bejing
Hanoi

39 h. 54 min 2967 km

Hanoi
Saigon

41h 1762 km

From Narvik to Minsk is probably about the same distance as from Portugal to Minsk. However, this is assuming that there are no valid services between Boden and Haparanda. Therefore you have to take the long way around, via Stockholm, Copenhagen, Kolding, Hamburg, Berlin, Warsaw, Minsk.

From Narvik to Minsk is probably about the same distance as from Portugal to Minsk. However, this is assuming that there are no valid services between Boden and Haparanda. Therefore you have to take the long way around, via Stockholm, Copenhagen, Kolding, Hamburg, Berlin, Warsaw, Minsk.

But Bunbury to Mt Isa ... or Kunming to Thurso ... is far farther.

But Bunbury to Mt Isa ... or Kunming to Thurso ... is far farther.

I think he was taking about the longest direct route to Minsk. From there on, the longest direct route is pretty obvious I guess. I wonder whether Norway, Scotland, or Portugal is the longest route to Minsk however.

(walking from platform to platform accepted)

My guess for the longest is Thurso or Wick to Ho Chi Minh City ....

Day1:
Vila Real de Santo Antonio - Faro > Regional train = 50km
Faro - Lisboa > "Alfa Pendular" = 300km
Lisboa - Hendaye > "Sud Express" night train = 1000km
or in alternative:
Lisboa - Porto > "Alfa Pendular" = 320km
Porto - Vigo > "international" = 170km
Vigo - Irun > "diurno" = 800km
>>> between 1350km and 1640km and we didn't even reached France. :cheers:

Day2:
Hendaye - Paris > TGV Atlantique = 750km


And from there in a straight line it's:

9500km to PUSAN
10.750km to Singapore
10.200km to anywhere in Vietnam coast

^^ Take your pick and select a route acordingly ...

We can add some soundabout intermediat stops like going all the way up to scandinavia or the middle east (?)

:cheers:

There used to be a single rail line from Lisboa to Hanoi!
So you could travel between Portugal and Vietnam without changing train.

And I think, in terms of this thread, you could hop on a train in Lulea, Sweden and end up in Hanoi Vietnam.....
That would be longer than Thorso-Hanoi I think?

You could never do this without changing trains, but I sense we are talking about the same thing ... only using certain English words differently.

My guess is that Lagos, Portugal, id probably further from Hanoi by rail than Thurso, Scotland is. Narvik, norway, looks more distant than Lulea, Sweden, but you could take a short-cut through Finland and St. Petersberg.

There was a railway from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) ... don't know if it's still working.

My rail atlas suggest you can travel from Capetown thus:

Capetown-Kimberely-Bulawayo(Zimbawe)-Victoria Falls-Lusaka(Zambia)-'Dar-es-Salam'(Tanzania)-Moshi-Voi(Kenya)-Nairobi-Mbale(Uganda)-Murchison Falls.

Maps on the internet suggest that the Iranians are bridging the gap between Yazd, Kerman, & Zahedan and hence there will be a continuous line (albeit with break of gauge) from Istanbul or Europe via Russia and Armenia to Chittagong, Bangladesh.



Routed From Vila real (south of portugal) via Lisboa , Madrid , Valencia , Barcelona , Lyon , Paris , Brussels , Amsterdam(?) , Hamburg , Copenhagen , Stockholm , Helsinki , S.Petersburg , Moscow and from there the "transsiberian" up to Vladivostock ... more than 16.000km. :cheers:

From Vladivostock one can go further south to Nothern Korea and then china and all the way to "southeast asa" increasing some thousand quilometers to the route ...

Hanoi at 20.000km
Ho Chi Minh at 21.000km

There is a 200km gap between Phnom Penh and Ho chi Minh ... we could easily add some 2500km more. :bash:

Mianmar , Thailand Malaisia and Cambodja are not connected to the eastern networks so we end at Vietnam.

Any other possible follow up is easily reached by shorter routes. :ohno:

this of course bipasses the "direct" route from Moscow to southern China.

and Norway is near the "shortcut" of going by northen Sweden wich is actualy the "not" shortest route from western europe to Russia.

The tough part regarding Russia's railroads is that the gauge difference between them (1520 mm) and 'standard' gauge (1435 mm) was set as such by the Czars to make it as difficult as possible for invading armies to use their railroads. The difference was large enough to prevent direct running between them but too small to allow laying a third rail to easily create dual-gauge track.

I'm interested in that item about Spain planning to regauge its track to standard gauge. Is there any set timeline for that?

Also (and very interesting, too), from what I am aware of, China's railroads are 100% compatible with those of North America (Canada, Mexico, USA). That is why I am thinking that if a direct North America-Asia rail link is ever built (under the Bering Straits), it would likely all be built to such gauge and equipment standards. I am also aware of ongoing plans to build a standard-gauge railroad between China and western Europe, allowing China-Europe commerce to go direct rather than transiting North America (ship -> rail across USA and/or Canada -> ship).

That said and I have not checked, but how long is Amtrak's Sunset Limited route (Florida <-> Los Angeles, CA)?

Mike

Portugal and spanish Gaudes were simply "imperial measures".

Portugal = 5 imerial feet
Spain = 6 pés castellanos

^^ For a long period of time both countries had actualy a DIFEERENT gaude some few centimeters apart from one another but fully compatible to reciprocal rolingstock usage.

Portuguese early network was actualy built at 1435mm and later changed to 1667mm (using the outside holes as the new inside holes in sleepers) ... spanish network was standardised at 1672mm ... later on both were changed to some loosely defined 1668mm.

the main reason for the gauge at 1,67m was to accomodate larger boilers in the locomotives (thus more powerfull) ... wich resulted in the construction of high gradient routes in places the early gauge would cause problems. :cheers:

Argentina still uses 1672mm on some areas of their network.

[QUOTE=Yardmaster;15458403]I would have thought Hanoi was further from Portugal than Vladivostok: further back in the thread, Norway & Scotland were also candidates for the western end of the trip.[/QUOT

The further one can get from Moscow in western europe is at "Vila Real de Santo Antonio" as the routes from there and Lagos join at a point more close to Lagos and then follow north to lisboa and entroncamernto (where the route to madrid diverges from the main line).

VRSA-Moscow is a little over 4200km ... there is no other point of europe at more than that:

3300km (sicily - Italy)
3500km (thurso/Wick - Scotland)
3700km (Bodo-Norway)

^^ Using the figures from the Thomas Cook European Railway timetable I have just prepared a number of spider's web diagrams with a mass of distance figures: by my reckoning, Narvik is 2614 km by rail from Hamburg. One of things I'd like to clear up is the longest rail journey in Europe (accepting Moscow as the east boundary of Europe at this stage, but allowing Murmansk & Sebastopol). The distances are given in km.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/ooompaloompa123/transport/tables/scandanavia-dist.jpg

There's about another 2000 km to get from Hamburg to Madrid, and quite a bit more after that .... or am I misreading the timetable? (mine is two years old).

Look forward to your diagrams. Though the Ural Mountains are the defined as the Eastern Boundary of Europe by all accounts, not Moscow.

Look forward to your diagrams. Though the Ural Mountains are the defined as the Eastern Boundary of Europe by all accounts, not Moscow.

Sorry, no timetables available here for that part of Europe! :)

Just got bored so I ended up drawing a PATH in google earth and remembered this topic:

Vila Real de Santo Antonio-Faro (in the algarve/portugal huelva/andalucia/spain border)
Faro-Tunes-Funcheira
Funcheira-Beja
Beja-Lisboa
Lisboa-Caldas-FigueiraFoz
FigueiraFoz-Cantanhede/Coimbra
Coimbra-Porto (notice that there are direct Faro-Porto HST AlfaPendular)
Porto-Vigo (using the international train)
vigo-Corunha
Corunha-Ourense-Medina
Medina-Salamanca-Guarda (back into portugal using the SUDEXPRESSO in the oposite direction)
Guarda-CasteloBranco-Abrantes
Abrantes-Caceres (using the international talgo lusitania on it's way to madrid)
Caceres-Merida-Huelva
Huelva-Sevilla-Antequera(?)-Cordoba-Puertollano-CuidadReal-Aranjuez(?)-Albacete-Murcia(?)-Valencia-Cuenca-Madrid

That get's me some 3800/4000km already and I'm still in the middle of the iberic peninsula ...and I didn't even started to use the nortern narrow gauges nor the catalunha system. :cheers:

5600km to reach Barcelona (going by Valladolid-Oviedo-Zaragoza-Castellon-Lleida) and some 6200km to reach Biarritz ... :lol:

^^ Yeah, but I'm trying to find the shortest "longest" (that is the most direct longest) route between two places on the continent, or on the Earth, by rail. It may well be that Vila Real de Santa Antonio ends up at one end of this route ... I'm not tyrying to put down the Portuguese :)

Since Europe has such a complex rail system, my idea was to define a central hub- not necessarily representing the most heavily trafficed or most important lines- in order to seperate the peripheral zones (or peninsulas!), to make it easier to establish the greatest extent of the system. The entire British system, for instance, can be connected to the hub at Lille, and the Scandanavian system at Hamburg (leaving aside the issue of the connection to Finland for the monent, which does not carry passenger traffic I am informed). As things stand, I believe Wick to be the furthest point by (passenger) rail in the UK, 1077 km from London, and 1344 km from Lille (my figures are probably out of date due to new trackwork). By my calculations (which may be wrong, but at least they come in components), that's 4576 rail-km from Wick to Narvik ... through Brussels, Aachen, Koln, Dortmund, & Hannover.I should be able to calculate the rail-km from Plymouth to Bergen pretty easily, too: they'll be about 900 km less on the Scandanavian end ... and a bit more than 700 km less at the UK end.

The Iberian, Italian, and Balkan Peninsulas are a little harder to analyze: I can probably reference the latter to Nis. But Spain's connections, both through Bordeaux and Barcelona, make things more complicated, as is the case in Italy.

Hence while I can identify Lille, Hamburg, Nis and maybe Warsaw as nodes on the periphery of this Central European hub, it's not so easy in the south-west.

You should play around with Germany's National Rail web site. Naturally, you would expect to be able to check train time tables in Germany, but their site is so good, you can almost pick any destination around the world you could get to "from Germany" by train.

Seriously. The site has an English page, so you can easily do your own searches, but keep in mind that German place names may differ from the English.

I done a quick search for tomorrow morning from Thurso, Scotland to Beijing (or Peking as the Germans still call it) and got this: Link (http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?ld=212.26&seqnr=3&ident=7i.01338226.1170443881&guiVCtrl_connection_detailsOut_add_C2-0#cis_C2-0)



Travelling time 8.8days and 6 changes.

try starting at http://www.db.de/site/bahn/en/start.html this is the English page at www.db.de

I'm sure with a bit of searching, you could find some distance longer. Also, keep in mind that www.db.de would probably try to find the shortest or quickest route. Of cause, you really good find a much longer one if you really wanted to ;O)

Your link doesn't work any more. Maybe you could copy and paste your results?

I don't know where to go from your start link. Usually I just go to bahn.hafas.de, but it refuses to give me the option for Ho Chi Minh (or Hong Kong).

^^

Just tried it again and it came up with this: (221 hours and 5 changes). If the link below doesn't work, just type in Thurso, Scotland to Peking at www.db.de


Link (http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?ld=212.24&seqnr=2&ident=kv.01548824.1229896204&rt=1&rememberSortType=minDeparture&jumpToDetails=yes&HWAI=CONNECTION$C1-0!id=C1-0!HwaiConId=C1-0!HwaiDetailStatus=details!;~CONNECTION$C1-0!HwaiMapStatus=UNDEFINED!HwaiMapNumber=UNDEFINED!HwaiMapSlider=UNDEFINED!;CONNECTION$C1-0!id=C1-0!HwaiConId=C1-0!HwaiDetailStatus=details!;~CONNECTION$C1-0!HwaiMapStatus=UNDEFINED!HwaiMapNumber=UNDEFINED!HwaiMapSlider=UNDEFINED!;)

Any way to travel between the two places without passing through Russia?

Yes, through Iran. There is a service from Ankara to Teheran, I think (and the train goes on a ferry on lake Van), but there is no train line from Zahedan to Quetta. Out of Quetta to Lahore there is a beautiful line through the mountains, with lots of tunnels and bridges, built a hundred years ago by the British.

^^ Yeah, but I'm trying to find the shortest "longest" (that is the most direct longest) route between two places on the continent, or on the Earth, by rail. It may well be that Vila Real de Santa Antonio ends up at one end of this route ... I'm not tyrying to put down the Portuguese :)

Since Europe has such a complex rail system, my idea was to define a central hub- not necessarily representing the most heavily trafficed or most important lines- in order to seperate the peripheral zones (or peninsulas!), to make it easier to establish the greatest extent of the system. The entire British system, for instance, can be connected to the hub at Lille, and the Scandanavian system at Hamburg (leaving aside the issue of the connection to Finland for the monent, which does not carry passenger traffic I am informed). As things stand, I believe Wick to be the furthest point by (passenger) rail in the UK, 1077 km from London, and 1344 km from Lille (my figures are probably out of date due to new trackwork). By my calculations (which may be wrong, but at least they come in components), that's 4576 rail-km from Wick to Narvik ... through Brussels, Aachen, Koln, Dortmund, & Hannover.I should be able to calculate the rail-km from Plymouth to Bergen pretty easily, too: they'll be about 900 km less on the Scandanavian end ... and a bit more than 700 km less at the UK end.

The Iberian, Italian, and Balkan Peninsulas are a little harder to analyze: I can probably reference the latter to Nis. But Spain's connections, both through Bordeaux and Barcelona, make things more complicated, as is the case in Italy.

Hence while I can identify Lille, Hamburg, Nis and maybe Warsaw as nodes on the periphery of this Central European hub, it's not so easy in the south-west.

^^ I don't care If you try to put down or not some forsaken place ... not at all ;)

I just started counting trips after trips and see what one could get using a chain of connections ...

there are some thousands of possible ways to travel direct using a small amount of interchanges ... but only in europe can you go rollercoaster stile and not cross your previous course. :lol:


the fastest way to get out of here would be:

VRSA-Faro = regional
Faro-Lisboa = Alfa Pendular (FIAT Pendolino tilting train) or InterCity
Lisboa-Irun = Sud express
Irun-Paris = morning TGV

Leave at mid-day and arrive in Paris before lunch of next day ... :ohno:

Look forward to your diagrams. Though the Ural Mountains are the defined as the Eastern Boundary of Europe by all accounts, not Moscow.

I'll get back to this ... but other commitments keep me off-line for the next few weeks. Happy New Year!

Domestic:

Train T264/5; Guangzhou to Lhasa; 4980 km; 55 hours 53 minutes; depart at 13:07 every other day
Train T266/3; Lhasa to Guangzhou; 4980 km; 56 hours 10 minutes; depart at 10:00 every other day

International:

Train K19; Beijing to Moscow; 9025 km; 144 hours 01 minutes; depart at 22:56 (Beijing time) on Saturdays
Train K20; Moscow to Beijing; 9025 km; 144 hours 27 minutes; depart at 23:53 (Moscow time) on Fridays

Yes, through Iran. There is a service from Ankara to Teheran, I think (and the train goes on a ferry on lake Van), but there is no train line from Zahedan to Quetta. Out of Quetta to Lahore there is a beautiful line through the mountains, with lots of tunnels and bridges, built a hundred years ago by the British.

Not entirely exact. The most distant point reached by the Iranian railways
in the South-East direction is Bam. From there, there is a gap till Zahedan,
supposedly closed sometimes in 2009, but it's been announced for decades
now, so I'll believe it when I'll see it. Zahedan is the most western point
served by the pakistani railways (with large gauge track) and from there,
there is one bi-monthly (!) mixed train available to reach Quetta. From there
you can travel to India and even to Bangladesh, now. But there is still no
way to enter China by rail this way.

^^

Just tried it again and it came up with this: (221 hours and 5 changes). If the link below doesn't work, just type in Thurso, Scotland to Peking at www.db.de


Link (http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?ld=212.24&seqnr=2&ident=kv.01548824.1229896204&rt=1&rememberSortType=minDeparture&jumpToDetails=yes&HWAI=CONNECTION$C1-0!id=C1-0!HwaiConId=C1-0!HwaiDetailStatus=details!;~CONNECTION$C1-0!HwaiMapStatus=UNDEFINED!HwaiMapNumber=UNDEFINED!HwaiMapSlider=UNDEFINED!;CONNECTION$C1-0!id=C1-0!HwaiConId=C1-0!HwaiDetailStatus=details!;~CONNECTION$C1-0!HwaiMapStatus=UNDEFINED!HwaiMapNumber=UNDEFINED!HwaiMapSlider=UNDEFINED!;)

The link doesn't work because DB doesn't save the searches. When I go to www.db.de, there is no place to enter departure and arrival stations. Eventually I find this--http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?--but it only works for Europe.

Perhaps you could just paste your result?

Not entirely exact. The most distant point reached by the Iranian railways
in the South-East direction is Bam. From there, there is a gap till Zahedan,
supposedly closed sometimes in 2009, but it's been announced for decades
now, so I'll believe it when I'll see it. Zahedan is the most western point
served by the pakistani railways (with large gauge track) and from there,
there is one bi-monthly (!) mixed train available to reach Quetta. From there
you can travel to India and even to Bangladesh, now. But there is still no
way to enter China by rail this way.

Thanks for the correction. When we got into Zahedan, the only thing in our minds was to get out again, so we didn't go in search of the train station.

From Pakistan to China, the only link is the Karakorum Highway, only good in the summer, across the Himalayas. A rail link... hm, maybe in the next century.

in India, there is a train which goes from the northern most state of Jammu to the southernmost state of Kerala

The 6317 Himsagar Express (between Kanyakumari and Jammu Tawi) has the longest run in terms of total time (also in terms of distance, see below). It covers its route of 3751km in 71 hours and 45 minutes. It’s counterpart 6318 takes 70 hours and 50 mintues.

source: http://www.irfca.org/faq/faq-trivia.html

What about the train line from Shanghai to Cambodia?

71 hours and 45 minutes?!?!?!?! HOLY SH$%^&, put some HSR on that line!

-The only international train line out of China in that area is the weekly from Nanning to Hanoi. No international service from Cambodia. Doubt if any trains are running there at all anymore, actually.

^^ Not exactly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4qttp6nDts

Maps on the internet suggest that the Iranians are bridging the gap between Yazd, Kerman, & Zahedan and hence there will be a continuous line (albeit with break of gauge) from Istanbul or Europe via Russia and Armenia to Chittagong, Bangladesh.

The line already goes as far east as Bam. You can see line construction
works on Google Earth as far as Shur Gaz, half the way to Zahedan, with
most satellites pictures being from 2006 or older. Works for the new Zahedan
station, with, supposedly, gauge-change facilities, are also visible.

Iranian railways have recently announced that the line should open "before
end of this year", which, if translated in our calendar, means before mid
march. However, there have already been numerous similar announcements
in the past, so I'll believe it when I'll see it.

On the other hand, the connexion between Moscow and Tehran through Armenia is now severed : the line goes through Nakitchevan, which is a
remote province of Azerbaijdjan, country currently at war with Armenia. As
a result, the line is interrupted at the Armenian-Nakitchevan border. There
are still trains between Tabriz, Jolfa and Nakitchevan, but not further north.
East of Jolfa, the line used to continue along the Arax river, up to Astara,
on the caspian sea shore. But here again, it is blocked at each border
crossing and therefore totally disused. From Google Earth, one can still see
rolling stock abandoned in the station sidings, probably forever...

And further north, the same scheme repeats itself with Abkhazia, region that
recently separated from Georgia. Our railway line goes through there; it
still runs between Russia and the capital city of Abkhazia, but is completely
destroyed further south. The relations between Russia and Georgia are so
badly damaged that there is even no more postal service between them.

On the other hand, Iran is said to be building a line to Astara, city on the
Iran/Azerbaijan border, at the caspian seashore, where railways of
Azerbaidjan are already present. I suppose that from there,
there is still a possibility to continue to Moscow. Armenia wants a rail
link to Iran too, but it would go through very mountainous terrain and
therefore would cost a fortune. I doubt very much that Armenia can afford it.

In any case, what we are seeing here is the railway network of a whole
region, initially built to serve soviet interests, being completely re-drawed
as a consequence of the new regional politics.

So what really remains is the line to Istanbul, which won't be really usable
before the end of the Marmaray project. And after that, there will still be the
Van lake ferry, which is severly limiting the line capacity. So we're still quite
far from seeing container trains plying the rails between Antwerp and
Mumbai...

What's the real point of such long journeys?

I'm sure they are great when you have the time to enjoy the scenery and are in the mood of spending a week on a train. But most times I'm sure people want to spend most of the time on their destinations, not getting into them.

I thoght the main reason for not taking a plane was the price, but nowadays airfares are very affordable. Maybe trains cater a lot of people who are affraid to fly :dunno:

I would love to take the Transiberian, it must be a life-time experience. But only once and that's it.

I believe the longest train journeys that are still pratical are those of 1,000 kms / 3 hours, which are far more convenietn than flyng. For anything further, I'd take the plane.

What's the real point of such long journeys?

I'm sure they are great when you have the time to enjoy the scenery and are in the mood of spending a week on a train. But most times I'm sure people want to spend most of the time on their destinations, not getting into them.

I thoght the main reason for not taking a plane was the price, but nowadays airfares are very affordable. Maybe trains cater a lot of people who are affraid to fly :dunno:

I would love to take the Transiberian, it must be a life-time experience. But only once and that's it.

I believe the longest train journeys that are still pratical are those of 1,000 kms / 3 hours, which are far more convenietn than flyng. For anything further, I'd take the plane.

Yes and no.

In Europe and USA, train is expensive and for distances above 1000/1500
km (or less if no high-speed train available) flying is cheaper. I have been
by train from Brussels to Oslo, Athènes and Lisbon and each time it was
more expensive than flying. On the other way, trains aloow you to get a
real sense of travel, while air just gives you a means of transportation.
Quite a difference in my opinion.

In other countries, train is incredibly cheap, and it might indeed be cheaper
to stay for 2 days in the train than flying. Look at India, China, for exemple, or at the Trans-Asia : 55 Euros for traveling from Istanbul to Tehran, I don't
believe you can fly for less than that. And there are buses that are even
cheaper, but less confortable too.

And then, finally, any responsible person today should think about the
environmental impact of their activities; in that respect, train is definitely
much more environment-respectful than planes, or even buses. May be trains
are just ful of people, not afraid of flying, but more environment-conscious.

One has also to consider, that for many trips flights are just not available at all, as only bigger towns have airports.

The train networks are much more dense and connect much more places (also smaller town and villages).
The fact that a train can serve many intermediate stops also allows to run train services, where a plain would make no sense economically.

One Austrian examples: Graz (in the southeast) and Bregenz (in the west) are connected by a direct train. The trip takes long, about 9 hrs. Of course there are not much people using the train from one end to the other. But the train serves about 20 intermediate stops, which also generate passenger demand, and that makes such a train profitable.
There are no air services from Graz to Bregenz, as the towns are just to small to generate enough passengers for that. And as flights areb usually non-stop (maybe sometimes 1 or 2 intermediate stops), only relations with heavy point-to-point demand are suitable for airlines.
So, to get from Graz to Bregenz, the trains is the only choice, alltopugh it takes a long time.

And there are many other secondary relations, where flights are just not available and for which a combination train+flight+train also makes no sense, as too much time is lost for the transfers.



Also long-distance trains can be useful, alltough they take much longer than a plane, if they provide a good overnight connection: I prefer departure in the evening, sleeping in a sleeping/couchette car and arriving at the destination in the morning over getting up at 4 in the morning, making the way to the airport and then fly to the destination...



Also it has to be considered, that you can use the time on the train for working on the laptop, so it's not wasted time (I'm on a train from Graz to Vienna right now...).
From downtown A-city to downtown B-city a flight including getting to/from the airtort and check-in/out might take 3 hour, whereas the same trip by train takes - say - 5 hours. The flight itself takes 1 hr, the train trip itself 4 hrs.
So by train you can work for 4 whole hrs, whereas by plane only maybe 30 minutes (considering that during start/landing you can't work).
If you see the whole 5 hrs, you have wasted 2h30 by plane but only 1 hrs by train.
Of course this comparison requires, that on the train you have good working conditions (power supply, quiet atmosphere, a seat with a table).