Should the RAV/Canada line be extended north to the North Shore, or south to Steveston/Delta/Surrey?

The Canada Line was designed to be expandable south of Brighouse-Richmond City Centre Station (and i hope that means double tracking that section as well). I can see it extended to Steveston and Delta, but probably not Surrey....maybe in a few decades.

I don't think extending the line to the North Shore is possible at all unless the Vancouver City Centre to Waterfront Station track is completely rebuilt. The line at that section isn't deep enough to go under the CPR Station and the future Waterfront Stadium pilings. The only way is to dig up the entire line after Vancouver City Centre Station, dig much deeper down for the line to descend, and rebuild Waterfront Station deeper.



One of the major challenges to extending the line I'd think would be maintaining sufficient system capacity. Platforms will be a maximum of 50 metres in length allowing for a 330-410 passenger train: compare that to SkyTrain's 80 metre platforms and longer trains with more capacity.

going south of steveston would be a waste - that are is very sparse and a lot of it is protected like burns bog and than the indian reserve land near tswassen (i can never spell that place)

so i don't think there will ever be much population there

extending into south surrey from surrey makes much more sense as that corridor is set for development and is already really filling up

and as for north van - there is the seabus which serves the same function basically

Golly, it's early for this isn't it? Well, my 2 cents.

As an alternative to a tunnel north, I think you could also see some kind of add-on or additional bridge at second narrows. Maybe you'd have the Expo Line extended east from Waterfront over to where second narrows is... I've been working at times over on the North Shore this winter and can see that things are really bottle-necking during the rush. Lions Gate sometimes even shutting down for whatever reason. Something's going to give if they keep developing over there.

I think the plan for Richmond is to have a streetcar/LRT network to/from Steveston. That would work well on the Railway Ave, ROW and be more cost-effective given the densities.

I could see a wholly separate line to North Vancouver. It could provide an additional line to either Strathcona or to the West End depending on the routing.

Ya perhaps then a line continuing up through Strathcona and connecting to VCC/Clark Stn. BNR rail goes right up there from the waterfront if they could figure something out with it.

As a recent resident of Vancouver, I am surprised the Canada Line was not designed to extend to the West End (Denman Street/W Georgia) and thereby serve one of the most densely inhabited parts of the city as well as Stanley Park, perhaps the city's most important destination points for tourists and citizens alike. The line could then cross to the north shore at some future date, either below the water or above, perhaps a new bridge crossing may be in order.

That would have lengthened the route (either a big detour or a one station stub) and the West End is a walkable distance to downtown (esp. with the temperate climate).

However, the route was modified to catch Yaletown/Downtown South/Concord Lands residents along the way.
The rejected routes were up the Smithe or Nelson corridor and into downtown or up Beatty or Robson and into downtown - those would have missed Yaletown/Downtown South/Concord Lands residents (but would have placed a station near BC Place).
That said, I think there could have been another station in Downtown South. The original studies suggested stations at Dunsmuir & Granville and Nelson & Granville, but those were combined into one station at Robson (Georgia) & Granville even before the RFP stage to save on anticipated costs.

As a recent resident of Vancouver, I am surprised the Canada Line was not designed to extend to the West End (Denman Street/W Georgia) and thereby serve one of the most densely inhabited parts of the city as well as Stanley Park, perhaps the city's most important destination points for tourists and citizens alike. The line could then cross to the north shore at some future date, either below the water or above, perhaps a new bridge crossing may be in order.

wasn't the original idea to run the line underground up burrard and have it terminate at burrard station as the hub and than have stations at robson, davie and than go under false creek or whatever - but i think that only worked if it didn't run the cambie street route perhaps... as it was more inline with granville street or something

Yeah, here are the City of Vancouver's Downtown Transportaion Plan diagrams. The plan was approved in 2002 - before the Canada Line was finalized, the last colour diagram is in the updated Downtown Transportation Plan. Remember that the City doesn't fully dictate the route, since it isn't funding the project.

You can see that the various options depended on the technology used (LRT, tunnel rail or Skytrain). In the case of Skytrain, interlining at Waterfront was an option, but the routing would have missed much of the population growth areas downtown (but have high catchment figures).

The Canada Line represents a hybrid of the options in the Plan.

In the current diagram (the colour one), note that with the combining of Dunsmuir Station and Nelson Station there is now a gap in the 400m catchment areas between Vancouver City Centre Station and Yaletown Station.



http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/6801/untitled1dw0.jpg

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5481/untitled2lt0.jpg

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/690/untitled3ho2.jpg

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/1218/untitled4py1.jpg

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7811/untitled5qz5.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1730/untitled6bw9.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6927/untitled7vc9.jpg

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2705/untitled8eq8.jpg

Here's RavCo's allignment study from 2002 and the routes considered. A bridge east of the Cambie Bridge and near BC Place was rejected early on for not catching the downtown south population:

http://www.canadaline.ca/files/uploads/docs/doc263.pdf

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/2163/untitled10gh6.jpg

^ wow. all that mention of long-term plans and extensions in the City report really went up in smoke today.......absolutely gone.


An extension of the Expo Line or future extension to Hastings or to the North Shore would've been awesome.

how come they didn't put a station further down granville as well - does it go too far underground to do so? if it does go all that way under granville...

how come they didn't put a station further down granville as well - does it go too far underground to do so? if it does go all that way under granville...

I think the original plans did call for another station down Granville, but it would've taken away ridership from Yaletown Station.

Nelson Station and Dunsmuir Station were combined before the RFP process to save on costs.
Similarly, after the bidding process, Richmond Centre and Westminster Station were combined, too - again to save on costs.

Nowadays it's a bit ironic to have 'sustainable' transit to, of all things, an airport. But it's a good start: if the Canada Line were continued all the way to the Tsawwassen ferry terminal, many more people could walk on to the ferries instead of driving. This extension could also be a catalyst for developing a string of pedestrian-friendly communities between Richmond and Tsawwasssen. (But before the Canada line is extended one inch, the Millennium Line has to be saved from VCC limbo and extended West, as planned, under Broadway to meet with the Canada Line at Cambie, and further too...)

The system was designed for suburbanites not Vancouver city dwellers, unfortunatly.
This is why transit ridership in Vancouver is far lower than in Tor/Mon and will remain so. It should have gone up Davie to Burrard then down to Thurlow.

As far as extending to Ladner.............are you kidding?

As far as the NorthShore it depends. By itsel no way but if there is a tunnel/bridge for cars then yes as it could be easily and cheaply incorporated into it.

As a recent resident of Vancouver, I am surprised the Canada Line was not designed to extend to the West End (Denman Street/W Georgia) and thereby serve one of the most densely inhabited parts of the city as well as Stanley Park, perhaps the city's most important destination points for tourists and citizens alike. The line could then cross to the north shore at some future date, either below the water or above, perhaps a new bridge crossing may be in order.

I think a single track monorail loop in downtown Vancouver would be a good idea. One that would link into Canada Line and Skytrain stations and run very frequently. Sydney has one and has some impressive ridership numbers; 3.6km track, 8 stations, 30,000 daily ridership. I know there are streetcar plans for Vancouver but they wouldn't do the Davie, Denman, Robson section. Plus a streetcar along those routes wouldn't be practical because of congestion.

http://www.thebestlinks.com/images/thumb/c/c6/320px-Sydney_Subway.jpg

http://www.netsplit.com/travel/2005/australia/sydney/sydney-051.jpg

^ a monorail would be nice, but downtown is quite small and walkable and there will be 7 rapid transit rail stations in three years and in the future many streetcar connections. i don't think it's necessary nor a smart way to use what little money we have for transit.

Streetcar on Robson and along Davie would be best.

^ a monorail would be nice, but downtown is quite small and walkable and there will be 7 rapid transit rail stations in three years and in the future many streetcar connections. i don't think it's necessary nor a smart way to use what little money we have for transit.

Streetcar on Robson and along Davie would be best.

Well yes, it was just a pipe dream...

The thing is that of the 7 rapid transit stations, two pairs are very close to each other (Vancouver City Center and Granville, Waterfront and Waterfront)
and the Yaletown and Stadium stations are at the southern and eastern fringes of downtown. So the whole westend is not being served. And then, according to the City of Vancouver website, a streetcar is not even being considered in the westend.

I find right now going from anywhere in Vancouver other than from downtown to the westend quite inconvenient. The Main and Fraser buses used to do the Robson and Davie loop but those were separated into their own routes.

Washington, DC, has a very nice and expansive metro / subway system - some regarded it as the best in the world. While not nearly as extensive as the New York system, it is modern, spacious, clean, and easy to use. It is a bit larger than Vancouver's system, but comparable in some ways. However, like Vancouver, the system was originally designed primarily to move people in and out of the urban core, complemented by an elaborate bus system that serves as a secondary system with broader reach and some redundancy.

In the past few years, the city and regional planners have realized two things. First, metro system usage is growing increasingly crowded - particularly where the lines converge in the downtown core. Upon study, they realized that many riders downtown were traveling just one or two stops during the day to get across the downtown area. Secondly, they realized that, even with the bus lines and metro, a key component of daily travel was being missed. That mode of travel, for lack of a better term, was the "quick trip," consisting of short trips such as running errands or shopping over lunch hour, appointments, dining meetings, etc.

To address that travel, they decided a "third node" of the transportation system was necessary. In response to the need, they developed the DC Circulator - www.dccirculator.com.

After an initial adjustment / ramp-up period, the idea has really taken off. They started with 2 lines connecting key points on either end of the downtown core - one running essentially east-west, the other running north-south. They recently added a third line which just serves as a loop around the main federal government core (that line is popular with tourists, as well, but that is a secondary benefit - the original lines were specifically launched to serve local population needs). The Circulator is NOT a typical bus line. It operates on a designated route loop and runs continually, designed so no wait should ever be more than 5 - 7 minutes. The buses themselves are distinctive, with an easy-on easy-off design, a unique look, and a different fare structure (cheaper to encourage use for short trips). And, as I mentioned, the lines are designed to cover a smaller geographic area focused on facilitating movement around the downtown core. The idea is that you could leave your place of work, jump on a circulator quickly, get to the your desired downtown location, do your thing, then jump back on and head back to where you started.

It's become so popular that people who live and work downtown are starting to use it as their main source of commute in lieu of the metro line beneath their feet - relieving congestion on rush hour metro, which was one of the original problems they hoped to solve. Here's a picture of the distinctive buses used in DC:

http://www.dccirculator.com


Having visited Vancouver often, I have often thought a Circulator system in downtown Vancouver could work very well. There could even be two main lines (a wide loop making a continual loop around the downtown peninsula) and an inner loop (Davie and Robson loop). This may go without saying but the idea is that the loop is two-way, meaning there are buses going clockwise and counter-clockwise on the same loop so you can go in the direction you need, and not have to "circle" in a system dictated by a single direction rotation.

It would be a heck of a lot cheaper and less invasive than creating a monorail system (cool though I think that would be). And I really do think it could work. It's added a new dimension to transit in downtown DC. I can really picture a similar system in Vancouver.

Be well!

I'll try this again, though I'm new at this so I might just be doing it wrong:

http://www.dccirculator.com/

Having visited Vancouver often, I have often thought a Circulator system in downtown Vancouver could work very well. There could even be two main lines (a wide loop making a continual loop around the downtown peninsula) and an inner loop (Davie and Robson loop). This may go without saying but the idea is that the loop is two-way, meaning there are buses going clockwise and counter-clockwise on the same loop so you can go in the direction you need, and not have to "circle" in a system dictated by a single direction rotation.

It would be a heck of a lot cheaper and less invasive than creating a monorail system (cool though I think that would be). And I really do think it could work. It's added a new dimension to transit in downtown DC. I can really picture a similar system in Vancouver.

Be well!

Vancouver does have downtown loop buses (#5, #6) that go on Robson, Denman and Davie. They are frequent but very slow at times because of heavy congestion. I often find myself walking faster than the buses! Also they are a few downtown community shuttle buses that link up with rapid transit stations.
I guess the main problem with street level transportation is that it is just not very fast.

it should probably extend farther into surrey, along king george and/or to guildford centre.