Lower Lonsdale in North Vancouver is in the midst of a dramatic transformation, from industrial outpost on the North Shore to a waterfront neighbourhood complete with highrise condominiums, ethnic restaurants, eclectic retail and lots of old-fashioned bakeries, delis, barbershops and pubs. Many of the heritage buildings and structures are being preserved. The Lonsdale Quay still plays an important role in the area.

The picture below is a model of the proposed final development of the area bounded by the water to the south, 4th Street to the north, St. Georges Ave to the east and Chesterfield to the west.

http://www.cherrybouton.com/lower_lonsdale/01.jpg

What do others expect from this area, in terms of potential within Greater Vancouver?

Lower londsdale is a very nice area, athough it could use a few more bars/clubs. My favorite place is that restaurant in the Quay that overlooks the waterfront and Downtown Vancouver

Some photos from the heart of LL:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/136/373504105_ba7396dd9d.jpg?v=1170092302

The new Pier tower, backdropped by the old shipyards on Burrard Inlet.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/373504256_83db753b4d.jpg?v=0

Queen Mary Elementary School.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/151/373503992_8658833ca6.jpg?v=1170092266

Lonsdale at 2nd Street.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/178/373503868_11192bc7f6.jpg?v=1170092232

St. Edmunds Church.

Is the Maritime Museum proposal still a go there? Haven't heard an update for a while.

I read somewhere that the City of Vancouver's Maritime Museum has decided not to participate in the North Vancouver prject - apparently they realized that the City's assets/museum pieces would have to leave their boundaries!! Also, the City's museum is more stodgy museum-based, whereas the North vancouver one is supposed to be more interactive - like Science World - so there were "programming" conflicts.

Not sure where that leaves the North Vancouver "National Maritime Centre".

I read somewhere that the City of Vancouver's Maritime Museum has decided not to participate in the North Vancouver prject - apparently they realized that the City's assets/museum pieces would have to leave their boundaries!! Also, the City's museum is more stodgy museum-based, whereas the North vancouver one is supposed to be more interactive - like Science World - so there were "programming" conflicts.

Not sure where that leaves the North Vancouver "National Maritime Centre".


MARITIME MUSEUM REMAINS ANCHORED IN KITS
The Vancouver Maritime Museum has decided to call off its quest for a new, larger facility. “The museum is not considering a move,” said Debbie Tardiff, director of marketing and development for the Kits Point institution, in conversation with the Straight.

This means the museum has shelved an idea it has been mulling over since this time last year to integrate its fast-growing collection—including the historic St. Roch vessel—into the City of North Vancouver’s proposed “shipyards historic precinct”, an ambitious project currently being considered for the waterfront just east of Lonsdale Quay. North Vancouver is still figuring out how to secure the massive funding required to build a national maritime centre on the site, which would feature exhibitions and programs on everything from shipbuilding to oceanography and immigration.

“I’m not sure that there was a will on the part of the City of Vancouver to find a new site for the Vancouver Maritime Museum,” Tardiff explained, pointing out that the museum, like many others across Canada, currently has room to display only 10 percent of its collection. “So North Vancouver sort of became the knight in shining armour with this beautiful site and a will to do it—they wanted a tourist attraction in the city of North Vancouver. But what became apparent was that the City of Vancouver owns our collection, and so we could no longer move forward with North Vancouver.”

Tardiff also pointed out a potential conflict between the respective missions of the museum and the proposed maritime centre. The latter, she said, will focus on creating interactive nautical exhibits rather than on collecting historically significant items. Even so, the Maritime Museum and the public it serves would benefit hugely from “something bigger and better” in the way of a facility, whatever the eventual site, said Tardiff. “I think the city deserves this. After all, we’re a port.”

Lower Lonsdale in North Vancouver is in the midst of a dramatic transformation, from industrial outpost on the North Shore to a waterfront neighbourhood complete with highrise condominiums, ethnic restaurants, eclectic retail and lots of old-fashioned bakeries, delis, barbershops and pubs. Many of the heritage buildings and structures are being preserved. The Lonsdale Quay still plays an important role in the area.

The picture below is a model of the proposed final development of the area bounded by the water to the south, 4th Street to the north, St. Georges Ave to the east and Chesterfield to the west.

http://www.cherrybouton.com/lower_lonsdale/01.jpg

What do others expect from this area, in terms of potential within Greater Vancouver?


Rusty --- Noth Van in my eyes has enormous potential with all of the parkland space at its doorstep, the rocky mountaineer connection to Whistler, and the spectacular views towards Vancouver. With an expanded SeaBus connection, it is also so easily acccessible to DT Vancouverites. Can you elaborate on any specific projects seeking approval by developers. The model picture looks impressive, but it is difficult to sort out what is built, what is proposed, etc.

Dr. T - you can track some of the developments in Lower Lonsdale at the City of North Vancouver's website:
http://www.cnv.org//server.aspx?c=2&i=91

I agree that North Vancouver's geographical setting is tough to beat -- wedged between downtown Vancouver and the Coast Mountains.

However, the local governments will have to work hard to get things right for Lower Lonsdale. If the Shipyards project falls flat, there will be a lot of disappointed folks who were once cheering for this neighbourhood's revitalization. With that being said, some of the major projects are already completed. Should be interesting to see how things shape up in the next few years.

so no new museum? o_O after all that hassle....

Well, one way or the other there -will- be a museum there. The question is, will it be a National Maritime Museum which will serve as a major tourist attraction (in the same league as Vancouver Aquarium or Capilano Bridge) in Greater Vancouver, or a little-league museum (ala the Lynn Valley Historical Society Archives) without the same kind of impact.

It's a shame that the City of Vancouver is essentially hording its maritime pieces at its little outpost on False Creek. Very few people have been, or have the desire, to visit the Maritime Museum there currently. The North Vancouver location, with its seaside pier, Burrard Inlet location, sweeping views of the port and cruise ships and Lions Gate Bridge, is simply outstanding.

Sometimes the City of Vancouver needs to put the interests of B.C. and Greater Vancouver before those of a few within the city limits.

^ yea, but think about it.....City of Vancouver money was used to build and fund the existing museum and to acquire its existing collections. it would be like giving away all of Vancouver Public Library's books to other libraries in the region.

Fair enough, but then it should be asked: Of what value are the artifacts if nobody sees them? At least the North Van venue would give these museum pieces a worthwhile venue with more traffic.

Fair enough, but then it should be asked: Of what value are the artifacts if nobody sees them? At least the North Van venue would give these museum pieces a worthwhile venue with more traffic.

The point still is that Vancouver spent money to acquire the collections and owns it regardless of how popular the museum is. The City of Vancouver spent money, effort, and time to get this museum on its feet - it owns everything. It would be like the Vancouver Aquarium saying it wants to move everything to Richmond.

Right now, the museum should look for a location in Vancouver since the City has rejected the move. I do support the move, but I do understand the city's point of view as well.

This means the museum has shelved an idea it has been mulling over since this time last year to integrate its fast-growing collection—including the historic St. Roch vessel—into the City of North Vancouver’s proposed “shipyards historic precinct”, an ambitious project currently being considered for the waterfront just east of Lonsdale Quay. North Vancouver is still figuring out how to secure the massive funding required to build a national maritime centre on the site, which would feature exhibitions and programs on everything from shipbuilding to oceanography and immigration.

I think there will be a museum at Lonsdale Quay - with or without the City of Vancouver's particpation - even with the Vancouver Maritime Museum collection, they would still have had to find funding.

Dr. T - you can track some of the developments in Lower Lonsdale at the City of North Vancouver's website:
http://www.cnv.org//server.aspx?c=2&i=91

Great link Rusty, many thanks.

Re: Maritime Museum
Couldn't there be some kind of "on loan" deal that would be advantagous to North Van, City of Van and the public? Museums "loan" collections all the time for varying time periods without giving up ownership. There has to be some kind of win-win scenario here. Attracting tourists to the area would benefit both cities. Most of the tourists would probably stay in City of Van and benefit it. City of Van residents would save tax dollars from having to build a new facility and yet , the north Van location is very accessible. I really hate these petty, small thinking, "no it's mine and you can't have it" mentality.

do people even go to the vancouver maritime museum?

its kind of non descript

Redeveloping Lower Lonsdale

By SAM COOPER Staff Reporter
Feb 08 2007

In the history of cities, there are periods when a convergence of big factors sparks definitive change.

For North Vancouver, the SeaBus’s arrival in 1977 was a defining moment. On the heels of a world wide oil crisis, governments were thinking about sustainability and efficient public transit.

The foot of Lonsdale was identified by the province as a prime Lower Mainland transportation hub and the government acquired land to accommodate a ferry connecting Vancouver’s downtown to North Van.

Big-time investment in the waterfront followed and, in 1979, B.C. Premier Bill Bennett and North Van Mayor Jack Loucks announced a $70-million plan to give the city its Waterfront Park and Lonsdale Quay development.

Fast forward 30 years. The Olympics are coming, real estate is booming and the high price and environmental impact of oil is big news again.

Once more, North Vancouver city planners are thinking big on the waterfront – and senior governments appear ready to buy in.

That’s why Waterfront Project Manager Richard White picked up his city hall office a year ago and moved into a mobile trailer at the foot of Lonsdale.

The office is so close to the water White could open up his front window and literally dive in. But he’s here for more than the inspiring view.

“We said if waterfront development is that important to us let’s go down there,” he says, while leaning across his desk, which is covered with large maps with plans for Lower Lonsdale.

“It shows the players we’re serious about making big things happen.”

And the city’s proposed National Maritime Centre is as big as it gets – a regional cultural draw on the waterfront to be serviced directly by public transit.

If executed correctly it will be the area’s crown jewel, boosting business and livability at the same time by ushering people into a pedestrian-friendly environment, proponents say.

There will be art galleries, a convention centre, new lounges and cafes, a hotel and a coherent design paying homage to the area’s shipping history.

It’s all part of a three-year plan council has put special emphasis on in the drive towards 2010, but the project will surely be extended further, White says.

Currently over two million square feet of construction is either underway or planned and White forecasts about 300 new condominium units will come online each year for the next five years, meaning roughly 500 new occupants a year in Lower Lonsdale.

That figure doesn’t include possible condominium development on bordering Squamish Nation lands.

When all is said and done, the area will rival some of the best designed neighborhoods in the world and could relegate Vancouver’s trendy Yaletown to secondary status on the Lower Mainland “hipness” scale, White says.

“It’s exciting where we are now compared to five years ago, and twenty years ago this (whole plan) wasn’t even an idea,” he enthuses.

The plan nudged closer to reality last fall, when council approved a land swap with developer Pinnacle International, securing a site for the centre.

Pinnacle’s component of the plan, including condos, retail space, restaurants and a hotel, should be completed in three years. The last big hurdle for the maritime museum is attracting necessary funding from senior governments.

Critics have down played the chances of getting funding, but White has reason to be optimistic.

At a recent speech in North Vancouver, Premier Gordon Campbell spoke positively about the National Maritime Centre proposal.

Such statements are not made lightly by politicians, and you’d better believe the planners in attendance took notice, White says.

“(Campbell) specifically referenced the National Maritime Centre twice and he didn’t have to do that,” White says. “Maybe he was testing the idea out, but it suggests a policy direction.”

The city will approach Ottawa for funding this February and with plans to bring the Squamish Nation’s maritime story into the Centre too, White is cautiously optimistic about a favourable response from the federal government.

“We have a lot of stories to tell,” he says.

He adds right now there is no “Plan B” for the site, but if funding doesn’t shape up by late spring, the city will start looking at alternative plans, in order “to have something down there in time for the Olympics.”

The other big idea in North Vancouver right now, White says, is an extended waterfront path shared with the Squamish Nation and a commuter path along CN Rail lands, which will increasingly get people out of their cars in the city.

Again, Campbell spoke generally favourably of the sustainability thinking behind these pathway initiatives, White says.

“He said if you could take a pill to eliminate heart disease you would and walking or riding to work for 30 minutes a day is like taking that pill,” White said.

“It’s music to a planner’s ears, to hear (big politicians) talk that way.”

***

Former Vancouver councillor and GVRD board member, Gordon Price, who now teaches the city studies course at SFU, also thinks the National Maritime Centre plan looks like a good bet to attract funding.

“From my experience of government (Campbell’s positive comments) are as close to a done deal as you get,” he says.

Price says North Vancouver has a lot going for it in urban design and a major cultural centre is one of the few missing ingredients.

“(The centre) gives you identity, and a cultural background is crucial,” he says. “It gives you multiple reasons to visit the city and adds prestige.”

Price says urban planning experts are giving North Vancouver’s vision of the last twenty years rave reviews, “because they’ve done density in a graceful way,” making a mixed-use, pedestrian-friendly core, as opposed to other regional centres like Metrotown in Burnaby.

“Mostly they’ve made good choices, always thinking how one (development) leads to what’s coming next.”

However, his one criticism is the lack of a well organized non-vehicular commuter system.

“To get people out of cars you need to shift their mental maps by creating comfortable, green space routes,” he says. “The idea is getting back to how people lived for most of history, before the automobile’s dominance of the last 50 years.”

However, one of the added challenges for development in North Vancouver, especially for coordinated transportation routes, has been the two side-by-side jurisdictions, Squamish Nation and City of North Vancouver, rarely seeing eye to eye, or even communicating for that matter.

But players on both sides say cooperation and shared visioning is at an all time high.

That, and the premier’s recent speech, is why Mayor Darrell Mussatto is so optimistic about the proposed joint waterfront path on both city and Squamish Nation land, which could possibly be completed by year’s end.

He says council has about $340,000 in place for the project and provincial funding will be pursued.

“In terms of importance this will be right up there with Waterfront Park and the redeveloped Quay,” Mussatto says. “This will be something to compete with the seawall in Vancouver’s West End.”

“I can’t remember the last time we had a sitting premier speak in North Vancouver,” he adds. “We think we can capitalize on (both provincial and national) governments’ realization that the environment is important.”

Squamish Nation planner Toby Baker says he believes the band council will green light the city’s proposal for a path running through Mosquito Creek Marina, in a Feb. 21 meeting.

Baker says the band doesn’t stand to gain much commercially from working with North Van on the waterfront path, but rather, the project will build a relationship for future development.

“From time to time the story is that the nation is not a good neighbour,” Baker says. “This plan is important as a symbol for the relationship between (the band and city.)”

He adds the band’s likely approval of the waterfront path is not related to mitigating negative response to their controversial plan to erect billboards on the North Shore, six near Ironworkers Memorial Bridge, one south of Marine Drive and another east of the Lion’s Gate Bridge.

“The billboards are a viable business opportunity for those lands in the short term — but not in the long-term vision, when they will come down,” he says.

And just as Lower Lonsdale is flourishing, Baker sees similar and complimentary development taking place on Squamish Nation land.

“The ultimate goal (for development) is it makes sense where you don’t necessarily know you are on a reserve,” he says. “Like the city, we see having condominiums and commercial buildings, with the nation being a landlord and developer. The market is definitely there.”

***

But it’s not all good news for urban growth in North Vancouver. Amid the booming condominium construction now moving off the water and up Lower Lonsdale, residents are complaining of increasing crime and urban decay.

Especially in the 300-block of West 4th Street, neighbours say slum conditions are emerging, with property crime on the rise.

They point to a proliferation of graffiti, broken windows, and discarded needles in the streets, alleyways and green spaces of the surrounding blocks.

Housing in the area consists mainly of 40-year-old low-rise apartment buildings, some quite run down, and a large Squamish Nation reserve apartment complex, which appears to be in desperate need of repair.

“It’s the worst I’ve ever seen and I’ve been living here for four years,” says local resident Sue Cook, while standing in the alley behind her rental apartment on West 4th near Mahon. Here binners can be seen dumpster-diving at all hours, graffiti covers wooden fences and buildings and household appliances, such as a stove, are left standing in the alley.

Cook says many in the area blame the Squamish Nation and its ramshackle apartment complex for resulting problems.

“That blue Squamish Nation building is only 50 per cent of the problem if you ask me,” Cook says. “Fifty per cent is transients walking a loop from shelters to cash stores on 3rd Street, to the ‘(drug) shooting gallery’ down behind the movie theatres,” she says. “Some parents are afraid it’s not a suitable place for children.”

An organized group of residents in Cook’s neighbourhood believe the area can’t rise until run-down buildings on city and Squamish Nation land are renewed, and they’ve sent delegations to council with their message.

Mussatto says the city is addressing the group’s list of concerns, coordinating community clean-up days and crafting new housing policy to tackle redevelopment in the area.

But it would be counterproductive to attempt to pressure the Squamish Nation into housing improvements on their land, he says.

“I won’t be the one to tell them how to solve problems.”

Baker says improving housing in the area is a concern, but explains the band faces unique problems in generating necessary funds.

“The ability to raise capital on a reserve to preserve an asset is very difficult — you can’t just walk into a bank like anyone else would,” he says.

“The community as a whole must generate other revenues, then we can look after housing concerns.”

Baker adds band leadership is focused on driving legislation changes to permit individual band members to create more personal wealth, which would theoretically lead to more of a personal stake in property upkeep.

“The effort now is to bring reserves more into the commercial mainstream,” Baker says. “Our community members are like anyone else, they want to succeed (personally).”

***

Despite challenges with crime, the struggle to maintain affordable housing stock and the relatively high cost of sustainable building initiatives, as seen with customer complaints about high rates for the Lonsdale Energy Corporation’s water heating system, the general outlook for Lower Lonsdale development remains strong, White says.

He says the current “exuberant” rate of real estate development could slow, but sustainable growth will continue, and evolve in the central Lonsdale area in the next 10 years.

“For a long time foreign things affected us and we’d see a (building) boom” White says. “But now we’re on the world map. It’s a magnetic attraction, and that’s a fundamental shift.”